Harawira not sworn in

July 14th, 2011 at 2:34 pm by David Farrar

Tracy Watkins at Stuff reports:

There were dramatic scenes in today as Speaker Lockwood Smith refused to swear in new Mana Party leader after he would not deliver his affirmation as dictated by law.

The former Maori Party MP was to be sworn in as MP for Te Tai Tokerau.

As Harawira left the debating chamber, supporters sung from the public galleries in defiance of Smith’s ruling for them to cease.

Harawira had earlier sought to speak in Maori after approaching the Speaker to take the oath.

Smith interrupted him and informed him he must leave the Chamber and “return on a sitting day when he is determined to make the affirmation according to the law of this land”.

There were calls of “shame” and “no respect” as Harawira left.

The Speaker informed MPs that he had advised Harawira prior to his affirmation that the law of New Zealand required the affirmation “to be [delivered] in a certain way”.

The Speaker does not have discretion on this issue. The oath is not a requirement of Standing Orders or the Speaker. It is a legislated requirement of the Constitution Act 1986. S11(1) states:

A member of Parliament shall not be permitted to sit or vote in the House of Representatives until that member has taken the Oath of Allegiance in the form prescribed in section 17 of the Oaths and Declarations Act 1957

And S17 says:

The oath in this Act referred to as the Oath of Allegiance shall be in the form following, that is to say:

I, …, swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her [or His] Majesty [Specify the name of the reigning Sovereign, as thus: Queen Elizabeth the Second], Her [or His] heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.

One can affirm instead of swear, so cut out the God reference. You can also say it in te reo. But what you can not do is change the wording as it seems Hone tried to do.

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95 Responses to “Harawira not sworn in”

  1. Rick Rowling (816 comments) says:

    supporters sung from the public galleries in defiance

    Oh dear oh dear oh dear

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  2. Michaels (1,233 comments) says:

    No surprises here.
    Hone being Hone again.

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  3. Murray (8,803 comments) says:

    As always its all about mummies boy and screw everyone else.

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  4. mikenmild (12,434 comments) says:

    Perhaps he wants to do a Sinn Fein act and effectively refuse to take his seat in a declaration of independence for Te Tai Tokerau.

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  5. ciaron (1,450 comments) says:

    Thats just so gay.

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  6. Linda Reid (341 comments) says:

    Does anyone know what he tried to swear instead?

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  7. Batman (103 comments) says:

    He tried to swear allegiance to the Treaty of Waitangi rather than the Queen. what a knob end

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  8. James Stephenson (2,268 comments) says:

    Dunno Linda, the only swearing I’ve heard from him previously was “motherf**kers”

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  9. mikenmild (12,434 comments) says:

    So long as people are talking about it, Hone will be pretty satisfied with this stunt.

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  10. Pete George (23,832 comments) says:

    He must have been sworn in correctly before. So this is a wee bit of grandstanding.

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  11. Linda Reid (341 comments) says:

    Phil will be gutted. His CGT was supposed to lead the news tonight.

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  12. Batman (103 comments) says:

    also, I i have been watching the forecourt of parliament from out of my office window. his supporters have been out there waiting for a while. after several haka, Hone came out dressed in his cloak, to be received like some sort of demi-god. He read out his alternative oath and is now doing press interviews with a large Mana party banner in the background. I think this was entirely set up and done on purpose as a poublicity stunt.

    No respect for parliament or the institution of govt. throw him out for good and let TTK have no representative till November.

    EDIT: Linda: haha yes! Phil will be sooooo pissed off at Hone right now. BTW they are officially going with the GST off fruit and vege

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  13. Pete George (23,832 comments) says:

    Ok Batman, sounds like it was a big bit of grandstanding. He obviously knew he would get out of it.

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  14. ciaron (1,450 comments) says:

    @ Batman: feel tempted to have a go at a Lee Harvey Oswald?

    [DPF: 30 demerits]

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  15. Grizz (613 comments) says:

    It is not that he tried to take the oath in Maori, it is what he said in Maori that is the problem.

    Publicity stunt yes. He will say that he was kicked out by a white Mother Fucker. He might feel this increases his Mana. It reality he has just insulted the people of Te Tai Tokorau.

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  16. petal (706 comments) says:

    DPF, if he is not sworn in, does this effect pay and entitlements?

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  17. RRM (10,104 comments) says:

    Didn’t he fail to cast his vote in the house some time ago (while still a Maori MP?)

    What a complete waste of space this man is. Sideshow Hone.

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  18. Shazzadude (531 comments) says:

    Wasn’t discretion of some sort granted to Su’a William Sio when he swore in Samoan?

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  19. side show bob (3,410 comments) says:

    Good riddance who needs the fuckhead. I do hope the speaker docks his wages.

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  20. starboard (2,563 comments) says:

    bawhahaaha!..what a fucken noddy.

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  21. georgebolwing (1,011 comments) says:

    During the last parliament, the then Government introduced what should have been the innocuous Oaths Modernisation Bill, which sought to tidy-up the multitude of Oaths provided in various laws.

    It proposed that the parliamentary Oath, in English, would be:

    I, [name], swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her (or His) Majesty [specify the name of the reigning Sovereign, as in: Queen Elizabeth the Second], Queen (or King) of New Zealand, her (or his) heirs and successors, according to law, and that, as a Member of Parliament, I will be loyal to New Zealand and will respect its democratic values and the rights and freedoms of its people. So help me God.

    Hone, however, introduced a Supplementary Order Paper to the Bill that would have allowed everyone taking an oath, at their discretion, to add the following:

    “I will uphold the Treaty of Waitangi.”

    The National Party opposed the Bill, but Labour where proceeding with it, till Hone’s amendments were proposed and then the Bill quietly dropped down the Order Paper, as Labour didn’t want to have the issue come to a vote. The Bill has since lapsed.

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  22. RRM (10,104 comments) says:

    I don’t know why we don’t just erect a border at the top of the Brynderwyns, and everything to the north can be the Democratic Republic of Te Tai Tokerau or whatever.

    Sick of living with white motherfuckers under “pakeha law”? Then put your money where your mouth is, and get out. Go create an earthly paradise with tribal rule under the Harawira clan. Let us know how that works out for you.

    Old New Zealand will provide manned border crossings and offer free trade.

    When the Utus start and you need the U.N. to send in peacekeepers and war crimes investigators, Old New Zealand will assist wherever possible.

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  23. Batman (103 comments) says:

    Ciaron: no rifle unfortunately. though I’m all for him representing TTK, I think he should at least obey the rules of the club he volunteered to join! no man is bigger than the organisation!

    He’s just a big (little) dick.

    they all all gone now, onto the bus which delivered them straight to the forecourt!

    This is a sad day for maori representation in genreal, two steps forward, four steps back!

    [DPF: 30 demerits]

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  24. Murray (8,803 comments) says:

    Next time Batman take.the.shot

    For the sake of the nation, TAKE IT.

    [DPF: 30 demerits – not acceptable to urge shooting politicians you don’t like]

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  25. Murray (8,803 comments) says:

    If hes going to uphold the treaty can he tell us what article one is please.

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  26. Batman (103 comments) says:

    Murray: I’m 12 floors up and it’s a windy wellington day. not even the SAS boys could make that shot (or could they?).

    let us also absorb the news that Labour has brought back its 39% income tax rate! only this time it is on ‘rich pricks’ who earn over $150k per year. oh and a CGT with about a million-trillion exemptions

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  27. Murray (8,803 comments) says:

    Heres a question, if he hasn’t been sworn in hes not actually an MP is he. So whats with the site “The Official Website Of MP Hone Harawira – Te Tai Tokerau”

    Just not really all that smicked up on this “law” thingee at all is he.

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  28. ciaron (1,450 comments) says:

    @ Batman: I have no idea why they are so keen on having someone who won’t play by the rules and gets nothing done (a role easily filled by a non MP) over someone who effects change from within the house… Honsetly, I can’t get my head round it…

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  29. RRM (10,104 comments) says:

    I don’t think you need to worry too much about Labour tax policy becoming law in the forseeable future Batman.

    [/ off-topic]

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  30. Murray (8,803 comments) says:

    Jesus Batman oua softcock, never heard of a daisy cutter? Don’t be so gay!

    A little colateral damage is all good at the end of the day.

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  31. projectman (232 comments) says:

    How interesting that Hone should want to swear allegiance to the Treaty of Waitangi, rather than the Queen (or successors). He should (re-)read Article 1 in which is is absolutely clear about allegiance.

    Article the first [Article 1]

    The Chiefs of the Confederation of the United Tribes of New Zealand and the separate and independent Chiefs who have not become members of the Confederation cede to Her Majesty the Queen of England absolutely and without reservation all the rights and powers of Sovereignty which the said Confederation or Individual Chiefs respectively exercise or possess, or may be supposed to exercise or to possess over their respective Territories as the sole sovereigns thereof.

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  32. Murray (8,803 comments) says:

    I believe you have illustrated why I asked if he could tell us what the first article was projectman.

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  33. ciaron (1,450 comments) says:

    The first article is whatever hone wants it to be, you should know that Murray :)

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  34. AlphaKiwi (683 comments) says:

    Maybe he did this, so he can delay his swearing in until August 2nd and instead be out of parliament campaigning, whilst still receiving his salary and entitlements.

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  35. Dave Mann (1,246 comments) says:

    Just to put you guys who call Harawira a waste of space, useless, a fuckhead, mummy’s boy etc right… this man is none of these things. He is an extremely good tactician and he is achieving things for the cause of maori separatism that nobody ever dreamed possible before now.

    I happen to think he’s an absolute asshole and his cause has the potential to reduce this country to civil war (which is probably his ultimate objective) – but don’t anybody write this bastard off as just a grandstanding boofhead.

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  36. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Dave Mann: Having sat next-but-one to the man for a couple of years, I agree with you.

    But what everyone keeps missing is the nice benign Maori Party – the acceptable racially divisive party – want exactly the same things as Hone….they are just much more sly, and willing to play a much longer game. Make no mistake.

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  37. JP1983 (11 comments) says:

    AlphaKiwi (357) Says:
    July 14th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
    Maybe he did this, so he can delay his swearing in until August 2nd and instead be out of parliament campaigning, whilst still receiving his salary and entitlements.

    As far as I am aware He is not entitled to any salary or entitlements until he is sworn in. So this stunt has cut his pay for another 2 weeks.

    Correct me if I am wrong though

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  38. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    @projectman 3:28 pm

    Read the te Reo version. That is what was actually signed. It does not translate to what you have quoted. Note the differences. In particular:

    In the English text, Maori leaders gave the Queen ‘all the rights and powers of sovereignty’ over their land. In the Maori text, Maori leaders gave the Queen ‘te kawanatanga katoa’ or the complete government over their land.

    The word ‘sovereignty’ had no direct translation in Maori. Chiefs had authority over their own areas, but there was no central ruler over the country. The translators of the English text used the Maori word ‘kawanatanga’, a transliteration of the word ‘governance’, which was in current use. Maori knew this word from the Bible and from the ‘kawana’ or governor of New South Wales. Maori believe that they kept their authority to manage their own affairs and ceded a right of governance to the Queen in return for the promise of protection.

    It is widely accepted that the use of the words ‘kawanatanga’ and ‘tino rangatiratanga’ (in Article 2) contributed to later differences of view between the Crown and Maori over how much authority the chiefs would retain and how much the governor would have. There can be little doubt that the chiefs who signed the Treaty expected to enter into some kind of partnership and power sharing in the new system.

    It is not as simple as some of you may choose to want it to appear.

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  39. OTGO (579 comments) says:

    And that people is why the Treaty is not our founding document. Our founding document has not yet been written.

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  40. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    And on a more mundane note, to what extent is the apparently strict form of section 17 of the Oaths and Declarations Act qualified but subsection 3(e):

    c) The oath may be administered and taken in any manner which the person taking it may declare to be binding on him.

    Come in Graeme Edgler.

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  41. Longknives (4,966 comments) says:

    The Moron’s trashy-looking feather ‘cloak’ falling to the ground was the funniest part, as he arrogantly strutted into the House like the Robert Mugabe wannabe he is…
    I agree with Dave Mann and David Garrett though- this person is far more dangerous than mainstream New Zealand give him credit for.History tells us that you should not pander and appease such people…

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  42. Nookin (3,571 comments) says:

    Toad
    Sec 3(e) deals with the form in which the oath is administered and not the content or substance of the oath itself.

    One question
    Why did the Stuff headline say that the Speaker refused to administer the oath when the truth was that Hone refused to take it?

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  43. simonway (387 comments) says:

    Oaths ought to be modernised anyway, to remove the reference to the Queen. Nobody cares about the Queen except cranky old social cons. As a republican, David, would you support removing the requirement to swear allegiance to the Queen (perhaps replace it with a requirement to swear allegiance to New Zealand, or to one’s constituents, or something like that)?

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  44. Longknives (4,966 comments) says:

    Nookin- The Stuff article has changed it’s wording considerably since the news first broke- Initially they ‘alluded’ that Hone had been ejected for speaking Maori!! (Hence all the half-wit comments in support of Hone)

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  45. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    @Longknives 5:30 pm

    I agree with Dave Mann and David Garrett though- this person is far more dangerous…

    FFS, are you a loopy bigoted white supremacist like they are, Longknives? At least Garrett is out of the picture as far as political power is concerned, and Mann has never been in it. Long may it last. Ansell has departed the ACT fold (good) but the bigotry of Brash remains.

    It is so sad that what was once a principled party of small government and free market capitalism (which I disagree with but has a legitimate place on the parliamentary political spectrum) has become a party of bigoted white supremacists who want to deny our nation’s history (which has no legitimate place in politics anywhere).

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  46. Graeme Edgeler (2,972 comments) says:

    Sorry Toad, it still has to be “The Oath”. That said, the law doesn’t prohibit him from saying something else in advance. But he does, at some point have to actually say those words, in order, with no added or omitted words. He can take it in Maori.

    But what a day to be stuck in Court all day. I missed all the fun!

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  47. Graeme Edgeler (2,972 comments) says:

    Why did the Stuff headline say that the Speaker refused to administer the oath when the truth was that Hone refused to take it?

    Both happened. Hone probably wanted to take it after he had his say. The Speaker then wouldn’t let him.

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  48. Longknives (4,966 comments) says:

    “FFS, are you a loopy bigoted white supremacist like they are, Longknives?”

    Is this what you get when you dare to question the motives of Hone and co??
    Toad- No I don’t wear a White Hood. Your allegation was without basis, juvenile and absolutely pathetic.

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  49. wf (483 comments) says:

    You people crack me up. Makes me wonder what I did for entertainment before I discovered KB.

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  50. hj (7,182 comments) says:

    @ toad
    your entitled to your opinion (which is typical of Peace Justice Aotearoa, Socialist this and that etc).
    I prefer David Garrets observation

    David Garrett (91) Says:
    March 27th, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    hj: you are absolutely right…Delahunty is an reconstructed communist of the worst kind, and Clendon is one of those clowns who wishes they had 50% instead of 5% Maori blood…as an aside, when mad Delahunty sprinkes her speeches with te reo, Hone could hardly conceal the contempt and derision on his face…he quite clearly regards the Greens as the same kind of useful idiots Lenin thought trade unionists were….

    O.k Lenin may not have said that but that doesn’t nullify his impressions of the Greens.

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  51. hj (7,182 comments) says:

    Worth Waiting For: The people of South Africa, oppressed for decades by a system which conferred exclusive political, economic and social authority upon a militant ethnic minority, queued in the sun for hours to exercise “one person, one vote”. The New Zealand Greens dismiss this fundamental democratic process as “the limited concept of conservative Pakeha that one man, one vote is the only manifestation of democracy possible in Aotearoa”.
    http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2010/05/taking-greens-seriously.html

    Kate Sheppard would roll over in her grave Toad.

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  52. hj (7,182 comments) says:

    @ Toad how will the health system pay for decolonisation for the whole damn country?:

    Meteria Turie:
    “I dont think your right. We have been exposing the fact that income inequality appears to be a key driver behind a huge number of social problems and that therefore reducing that gap or “economic egalitarianism” if you’d rather, is a critical economic goal. But that is not itself sufficient and the truth is class politics never has been sufficient. Decolonisation in a colonised country is also a priority, as is gender equity, et al. I have never understood why people will only advocate for one single solution for what are complex problems that one solution will never fix.”
    http://blog.greens.org.nz/2010/08/14/inequality-in-aotearoa-life-expectancy-again/#comment-144750

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  53. James (1,299 comments) says:

    Stunts like this by Hone just validate Ansell and ACTs ad more and more…like any further validation was needed.Even that wet ACT bashing pussy Coddington had a hissy fit on 1ZB at these antics by Maori when anyone else would have to abide by the rules.

    Hey Debs!…….”The one law for all” penny dropped for ya yet yet?

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  54. hj (7,182 comments) says:

    “Time for some expert help here. The first lecturer I had at law school who taught our class anything Treaty-related was Alex Frame. [ ….]
    People sometimes ask me, ‘How do I see the Treaty. How should we think of the Treaty?’ I’ve always said that the first article of the Treaty – the kawanatanga part – is very strong – much stronger than some Maori are prepared to concede, and the second article, which guarantees rangatiratanga is also very strong – much stronger than many Pakeha are prepared to concede. – Alex Frame quoted in Bullshit, Backlash and Bleeding Hearts.

    Toad Says:

    It is not as simple as some of you may choose to want it to appear.
    so let’s see the Green Party solution:

    “One of jh’s themes has been dis-satisfaction with the Green Party for not being specific about the outcomes of our policy in relation to the Treaty. “What, specifically, will this country be like if we go down this course?”. It’s a question I have heard many times over the years, and it usually speaks from a position of fear and insecurity for Pakeha: what if I’ll be worse off? or even what if there’s no place for me?

    I want to acknowledge that actually we are asking people to do something (and we are doing it too) quite different from what we usually ask with our policy. Normally we have a very clear idea of the outcome we are seeking, and establish a policy to reflect how we will get there.

    But the Treaty is different. The words all have the potential to sound pretty hammy, but fundamentally the outcome being sought is a process: the process of absolute good faith negotiation, in which we Pakeha engage from a position of honour – acting ethically and morally.

    That process involves courage because we don’t know the outcome (and because we know we have it pretty sweet just how things are, let’s be honest). It is pretty scary, but it’s also pretty damn exciting!”

    http://blog.greens.org.nz/2010/05/03/my-speech-at-blackball-2010/

    You can see Kevin Hague and the Greens have got the condom off there!?

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  55. Fletch (6,532 comments) says:

    I agree with Dave Mann and David Garrett though- this person is far more dangerous…

    Reminds me of a quote –

    We sit by & watch the Barbarian, we tolerate him; in the long stretches of peace we are not afraid. We are tickled by his irreverence, his comic invasion of our old certitudes and our fixed creeds refreshes us; we laugh. But as we laugh we are watched by large & awful faces from beyond; and on these faces there is no smile

    Hilaire belloc

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  56. Papatu (3 comments) says:

    Hi Mr Moderator. Please tell me if it’s ok to talk openly about killing people on this site. There is talk here at this site of Lee Harvey Oswald type actions and i wonder how these comments got past you as moderator. please delete such posts. they might even be illegal and i want the discussion to raise the bar somewhat.

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  57. BlairM (2,340 comments) says:

    Does Hone know who one of the parties to the Treaty is? If so he should respect it by swearing allegiance to that party. Failing to do so violates the Treaty.

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  58. reid (16,722 comments) says:

    The whole Westminster system with its legal and constitutional framework is constructed on ritual and ceremony and respect for that is owed by everyone with no exception whether they are a PM or a brand new back-bencher and everyone there always obeys. It’s designed to show that no-one, at all, is above the institution. This instills confidence in the citizens that the machinery of govt is well oiled and working well.

    Hone of course has no respect for this, at all. In fact quite the opposite. Smith told him he can’t return till he swears the right oath, what’s he going to do now.

    Fact is though, who cares what happens to Hone, he’s a racist arsehole, what matters is what people stupid enough to think he’s a good man worth following, thought when they saw him do that, and what seed if anything that plants in their mind.

    Who the fuck does he think he is, this arsehole, to put himself above the institution that everyone else willingly puts above them, per the social contract. Who the fuck does he think he is. Does he want a civil war? Really? Why else is he doing this. As others have said above, he’s not an idiot he’s a very calculating man. His problem is, he’s also a racist arsehole. So what would a calculating racist arsehole do from here.

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  59. reid (16,722 comments) says:

    Apparently he’s also disingenuous, so he’s a disingenuous calculating racist arsehole.

    What Harawria said:

    “I, Hone Pani Tamati Waka Nene Harawira, swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Te Tiriti o Waitangi, that I will be honest and forthright in my efforts to advance the rights of the people of Tai Tokerau, that I will do my utmost to help all Maori people become full empowered citizens of this land and that I will do whatever I can to reduce inequalities in this country, so that all may one day be proud to call Aotearoa home.”

    The correct oath (in English or Te Reo):

    “I, [name] swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.”

    OR

    The affirmation:

    “I [name] solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her heirs and successors, according to law.”

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  60. Chris2 (775 comments) says:

    Harawira was one of the loudest voices years ago screaming “the treaty is a a fraud”.

    Now he wants to swear allegiance to something he says is a fraud.

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  61. rakuraku (162 comments) says:

    The problem in this country there is racism in both the white mans world and the maori world unfortunately people like Don Brash and Hone Harawira fuel the rednecks on both sides.

    There is ignorance on both sides Don Brash needs to do some Post Graduate Papers in Maori History and educate himself on the facts, likewise Hone Harawira needs to play the game if he wants to contribute to a positive path in Race Relations in NZ. Early settlers who settled here were here to seek a future for their families from the likes of Scotland, Ireland and numerous other nations, England was not interested in NZ, and it was the Maori that invited the English to get involved in NZ as they were concerned about the undesirables and the landgrabbers coming into NZ and further breakdown of Maori Society which had been devastated by the “Musket Wars” 1920-1935.

    Maori saw the English as the best alternative. Maori dominated commercial activities until the 1860’s until the balance of power shifted to the settlers who were interested in acquiring Maori Land-this lead to another era and the New Zealand Wars in the Taranaki and the Waikato.

    There are a number of complex issues and some misinformation going back to the Treaty and the controversial activities of the Maori Land Court in historical land acquisitions.

    If people educated themselves and looked at NZ objectively there would be more racial tolerance in this country.

    There appears to be genuine fear of Maori people in this country reading comments on this site and in the media, however most Maori people I know are New Zealanders first and Maori second. The Maori Gangs and the Press give Maori a bad name in this country and wind up racial tension which i guess sells papers and winds up the level of paranoia in this country.

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  62. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    @BlairM 7:44 pm

    Um, I thought there were two parties to Te Tiriti (as you implicitly acknowledge). Why is the allegiance just to the Queen – rather than to the Queen and to the United Tribes, on both of whose behalf Te Tiriti was signed?

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  63. Rodders (1,756 comments) says:

    @toad- the futility of you repeatedly defending Harawira reminds me of Monty Python’s King of Swamp Castle.

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  64. Fletch (6,532 comments) says:

    Maori dominated commercial activities until the 1860′s

    ey?
    A friend of mine at work would say that any commercial enterprise that Maori begin is always doomed to failure because they just don’t have the history and nouse of doing business – Europeans have had hundreds of years of practice in trade and enterprise which experience Maori just don’t have. They tend to get money and misuse it then wonder why everything falls over…

    Could be some truth in it.

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  65. reid (16,722 comments) says:

    rakuraku, very well said.

    Hone’s point was it not is that the treaty is before the Crown, to him.

    He said afterward he was going to say the required oath after he’d finished that one.

    Do you think he has a right to decide that unilaterally and if so via surprise attack put it on the table?

    It’s a very interesting move, isn’t it, constitutionally.

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  66. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    @Rodders 9:15 pm

    I don’t defend him – if I did I would join Mana rather than the Greens. My comments are just that – a commentary, rather than a defence. Hone says some dumb-fuck things without engaging brain first on occasion. But as far as colonisation and class analysis goes, he’s got it pretty much right from where I’m sitting. Jury out on environmental sustainability (a priority for me) at this stage.

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  67. rakuraku (162 comments) says:

    Fletch have a read of a book titled “Chiefs of Industry” written by Hazel Petrie at Auckland University MA PhD discusses Maori entrepreneurial activity in NZ focusing on coastal shipping, wheat growing and flour milling, I was suprised how ignorant I actually was.

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  68. Rich Prick (1,750 comments) says:

    The brown motherfucker ought to be pleased he wasn’t forced to speak Japanese or German had my white motherfucker grandfather and his generation not fought a war on his sorry arses’ behalf.

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  69. Rodders (1,756 comments) says:

    @toad @9:24pm – we can agree that Hone says dumb-fuck things. Unnecessary to put the qualification “some” on it, though.

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  70. reid (16,722 comments) says:

    But as far as colonisation and class analysis goes, he’s got it pretty much right from where I’m sitting.

    Really? Pray tell how.

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  71. DJP6-25 (1,390 comments) says:

    John Hatfield, and his ‘party’ are reason #958 why all this apartheid stuff has to end yesterday. ACTs ad came out at just the right time. The CGT policy will probably sink without trace.

    cheers

    David Prosser

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  72. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    @reid 9:32 pm

    FFS, scroll up and read my 4:47pm comment

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  73. reid (16,722 comments) says:

    toad so what you’re saying is what the Maoris thought they were signing up to, was all protection, all rights, but no sacrifice, nothing in return?

    I’m sorry toad but I think your class analysis treats the proud Maori as a primitive, simple people who clearly aren’t, so I call bullshit on you for that one and I also observe your attitude to be very condescending to imply Maori weren’t capable of understanding what they were signing.

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  74. James (1,299 comments) says:

    Actually there are three party’s to the Treaty…well two officially recognised and the far bigger forgotten third one,all of us taxpaying ripe sucks who are forced to fund the bullshit without our views and rights being recognised and respected.But one has come…his name is “Ansell”….and he will deliver us from the apartheid evil that subsumes us and take us to the mountain top in the promised (racially neutral) land.Praise his name!

    ;-)

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  75. Spiritfree (79 comments) says:

    OTGO: And that people is why the Treaty is not our founding document. Our founding document has not yet been written. It’s not even the correct treaty. The Littlewood Document is.

    F*ckit all anyway. It was 170 years ago and more than enough recompense has been paid. Maori are not permitted to put other Maori into slavery anymore or eat them and haven’t for 150 years, they all live in houses, etc. etc. etc. And whose land is it, anyway? Humanity are only custodians. Ergo, enough. Already. Rip it up.

    PS. don’t anyone tell me I’m racist. My last partner was Maori, I share a house with one etc. She has left all that sh*t behind (all the “poor me I’m Maori look what they’ve done to us” and much more) and despairs that there are so many hanging on to it.

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  76. rakuraku (162 comments) says:

    Referring to the Treaty of Waitangi there are different versions of the Treaty a .pakeha version and a maori version.

    The majority of Maori Chiefs both male and female signed the Maori Version of the Treaty, which has different meanings to the Pakeha Version however it is the principles of the Treaty which were not adhered to back in the 1800’s and into the early 1900’s that led to the alienation of Maori Land and the degredation of the Maori Race.

    Maori were disenfranchised from their land, often it was supposedly sold by Maoris who had no rights to sell it or it was claimed to have been sold and taken through the Maori Land Court which was often referred to as the Maori Land Taking Court.

    The NZ Government and the legal system has not protected the rights of Maori’s just as it has not protected it’s citizens from marauding Finance Companies in the last 10 years.

    The majority of Maori people I know in NZ are hard working New Zealanders who hate the Maori Gangsters who are the pits in Maori Society and generally are the misguided who do not even know their tribals affiliations. I know of maraes in NZ who ban gang patches, and have very little respect for their people involved in the gang movements.

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  77. Put it away (2,872 comments) says:

    Ah I think I get it toad, hatfield’s an idiot but when his idiocy coincides with yours then it’s all good? Is that how it works?

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  78. mikenmild (12,434 comments) says:

    Spiritfree

    The Littlewood document, eh? Please tell us more…

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  79. projectman (232 comments) says:

    @toad 4:47

    Maori … ceded a right of governance to the Queen in return for the promise of protection.

    Yes, I think you’ve actually grasped it.

    It is much simpler than you may choose to want it to appear.

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  80. Mark (1,502 comments) says:

    For someone who does not have one supporter who would bother opening this blog let alone care less what is written on it there is a lot of energy devoted to Harawera here. I am an ex ACT supporter and was hopeful when brash put his name forward but he has been pathetic, old and out of touch and bringing that idiot Ansell into the equation has shown a man of little or know political judgement.

    Sadly ACT is not trying to campaign on it’s strengths. We need fiscal restraint and sensible economic management, we need clear well thought through tax policy but we are getting the race card and reactive winging about national policy and labour policy that is now out there to be debated.

    Where are the clearly stated alternative tax and fiscal management policy ideas from act. It has been hugely disappointed to watch a party of ideas be dragged into senseless arguments on race that simply is placing the party in the same pathetic realm as the Mana Party

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  81. Dave Mann (1,246 comments) says:

    Here we go. The appeasing quasi-separatist John Fucking Key is getting set to sell out YET AGAIN! If we vote this cunt in again in November we deserve all we get.

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/newsdetail1.asp?storyID=200523

    MPs’ oath could be reviewed

    The oath taken by MPs may be looked at as part of a review of the country’s constitution.

    That review is taking place as part of the deal between the government and the Maori Party. (My italics)

    Mana party leader Hone Harawira yesterday refused to take the oath swearing allegiance to the Queen, instead wanting to do so to the Treaty of Waitangi.

    His former leader, Maori Party co-leader Tariana Turia, says there are lots of things about Parliament that need to change.

    “It isn’t a big deal, I think, to swear allegiance to the Treaty, after all it is through the Treaty of Waitangi that Parliament was established.”

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  82. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    @reid 10:33 pm

    …I think your class analysis treats the proud Maori as a primitive, simple people who clearly aren’t, so I call bullshit on you for that one and I also observe your attitude to be very condescending to imply Maori weren’t capable of understanding what they were signing.

    Not at all, reid. The Rangatira who signed understood perfectly well what they were signing – in Te Reo. They signed the Te Reo version. The fact is that it does not translate to the English version, which only very few signed. Whether the inaccuracy in translation was deliberate or accidental is something we’ll never know, so it is not productive to speculate about that. But the version which should be accepted as our nation’s founding document is the one that was actually signed, and that gives the Crown “governance” (kawanatanga) rather than “sovereignty” (tino rangatiratanga).

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  83. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    Not at all, reid. The Rangatira who signed understood perfectly well what they were signing – in Te Reo. They signed the Te Reo version. The fact is that it does not translate to the English version, which only very few signed. Whether the inaccuracy in translation was deliberate or accidental is something we’ll never know, so it is not productive to speculate about that. But the version which should be accepted as our nation’s founding document is the one that was actually signed, and that gives the Crown “governance” (kawanatanga) rather than “sovereignty” (tino rangatiratanga).
    sorry wiki … is the act of governing. It relates to decisions that define expectations, grant power, or verify performance. It consists of either a separate process or part of management or leadership processes. These processes and systems are typically administered by a government so

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  84. davidp (3,585 comments) says:

    toad>But the version which should be accepted as our nation’s founding document is the one that was actually signed, and that gives the Crown “governance” (kawanatanga) rather than “sovereignty” (tino rangatiratanga).

    It’s a founding document. But what relevance does it have for modern NZ? Magna Carta gives a bunch of special rights to lords. Does that mean that lords are still entitled to those rights in modern Britain, and the steps they’ve taken recently to reduce and eliminate hereditary lords sitting in parliament are a violation of their rights? The Treaty of Utrecht says that Jewish people aren’t allowed in Gibraltar. The Spanish government has complained that this has been frequently violated. Are they right and therefore the Jewish population should be deported?

    At some stage, modern concepts of human rights have to take precedence over an ancient treaty. To do anything else means that you’ve freezing your country in the 19th century.

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  85. Dave Mann (1,246 comments) says:

    Oh, and for you people who think that the Maori Party/Harawira split points to confusion and discord within the maori separatist movement, then think again. This is quite the opposite. Its a process better known in the world of bacteria and it is called binary fission, whereby cells grow rapidly then divide into two and then each cell grows and divides again. You get the idea.

    New Zealand* is now fighting for its survival against three separatist movements within its own parliament – National, the Maori Party and the Mana Party. After the election, if National wins again, there will be at least one more split, probably from the Maori Party which is the main source of the infection and is in turn fed and nurtured by the traitors within National like a growth.

    *For those of you who will write me off unthinkingly as a white supremacist, by ‘New Zealand’ I do not mean the demeaning term ‘Pakeha’. I am referring of course to the Europeans who founded democracy here, but also to the hard working Indians, Pasifika, Chinese, Taiwanese, Sri Lankans, Koreans and all the other races which have come to live here and contribute to this country’s rich culture. When we get our own Mugabe these people will be first for the chop.

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  86. badmac (136 comments) says:

    Toad, you seem to be forgetting that many chiefs could’nt read or write, but you carry on rewriting history. As long as you believe it it must be true.

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  87. badmac (136 comments) says:

    Also why should the Maori version be the accepted/overruling one. Because that’s the one in Te Reo? BS As Toad pointed out there were 2 parties and the crown signed the English version. If there are differences then that simply invalidates the treaty as you can never reconcile that one party signed one thing and the other party signed something different.

    So problem solved, the treaty is invalid, push reset and call back the chiefs. We need to negotiate a new one.

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  88. mikenmild (12,434 comments) says:

    badmac

    Renegotiating the treaty would be welcomed by Maori, as it would mean restoring the pre-1840 status – unquestioned Maori sovereignty. It might not be bargained away quite so quickly a second time round!

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  89. Sadu (129 comments) says:

    You know, I’m sick of being a slave to legislation which is over 100 years old and was ambiguously written at best.

    Whomever was right or wrong back then is irrelevant. Presumably the original issue still exists, but there are now the rights of everyone who was born here since to add into the equation.

    For me, a lot comes down to what is acceptable in given time periods. For my father’s generation it was acceptable to smoke in the car with kids. For my grandfather’s generation, it was acceptable to be blatently racist. For my English ancestors, it was acceptable to invade foreign countries like New Zealand and plunder / rape / murder the natives.

    I’m not saying I agree with that – but that’s certainly how things were done back then, New Zealand was no exception.

    Should we prosecute the people of Rome for all the sins their ancestors committed? Or perhaps dole out some wages to the decendents of those who were forced to build the pyrimids over in Egypt. At what point can we simply move on?

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  90. Robinson 666 (25 comments) says:

    Harawira won his seat (again).

    Lets see Brash try and do the same!

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  91. Dave Mann (1,246 comments) says:

    @Sadu(31): Yours is probably the most intelligent analysis of New Zealand’s racial problems that I have ever read. Thank you for your commonsense.

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  92. mikenmild (12,434 comments) says:

    Robinson

    Love him or not, at least Hone had the courage of his convictions, resigned and was re-elected.

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  93. Fletch (6,532 comments) says:

    I’m sure Hitler had the courage of his convictions, too; and Stalin, etc etc – doesn’t make them great.

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  94. Spiritfree (79 comments) says:

    Sadu: At what point can we simply move on?

    Now!

    The best thing for the country would be a collective ceremony at which everyone rips it up. Followed by a big, I mean BIG, shaking of hands, with claps on the back, hugs even, and pledges to accept one another. The end of it.

    There are Maori politicians who want an end to all the claims. One of these is Shane Jones. Though he has not said this publicly, I have it on good authority that in a discussion with a relation he was wondering, in despair, at whether the claims thing would ever end. One of his problems, though, is that he grew up with Hone. Went to school with him, even. And with the strange, some would say absurd, inability of many Maori to criticise close tribal members (and I say this even though Shane is paler than I am), he stands back from criticising Hone.

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  95. Spiritfree (79 comments) says:

    Mikenblinkers: Spiritfree……..The Littlewood document, eh? Please tell us more…

    Are you able to use google?

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