Critic on Treatygate

August 13th, 2012 at 8:26 am by David Farrar

An exclusive from Critic:

 has obtained documents from controversial race campaigner Louis Crimp, setting out a plan for a $2million campaign aiming to make New Zealand a “colourblind” (racially neutral) state. The campaign will be split into two distinct “brands”, known as “Treatygate” and “Colourblind State”.

‘Treatygate” is the “attack brand”, and will involve a series of brief, hard-hitting advertisements designed to incite “anger” in “hothead” voters. Treatygate aims to “expose the 40 year state brainwashing campaign that has distorted the history of Crown- relations”.

Speaking to Critic, , the advertising guru behind the campaign, described the planned advertisements for Treatygate as “short sharp little messages with one piece of evidence in each one”, such as that “Maori companies pay 17.5% tax, [while] others pay 28%.”

According to Ansell the primary goal of the Treatygate campaign is to “expose the bias and enrage the public”. “You have to make the public mad… otherwise we’re the passionless people, we won’t rouse ourselves to oppose the politicians unless [the public] have the information.”

The Treatygate campaign is likely to kick off before the end of 2012, dependent on funding.

After the public have been fired up by the Treatygate campaign, “Colourblind State” aims to harness this anger to get 80% or more of the public to vote in favour of a referendum question along the lines of “Should New Zealand be a colourblind state, with no race-based political representation, policies, or funding?”. Ansell intends to submit his referendum question by the end of August, which will give Parliament three months to approve it. After that, Ansell and his fellow campaigners will have one year to gather the more than 300,000 signatures required to trigger a citizens initiated referendum.

I wonder which CIR may gain more signatures – the asset sales one, or this proposed one? I guess the Greens will not be using taxpayer funding to hire staff to colect signatures for this one!

But Labour and the Greens are insisting that a CIR trumps an election mandate. So if this CIR does happen, and gets majority support, will they adopt it as policy?

For Ansell and his supporters, time is of the essence – the Constitutional Advisory Panel, which was set up in 2011 to review NZ’s constitutional arrangements and draft a set of recommendations, is due to report back in September 2013. Ansell believes that the panel is “stacked” in favour of what he describes as “Griever Maori”, and that the panel is likely to recommend that the government “impose a Treaty-based Maorified constitution by 2014”, which would be “the end of NZ as we know it”.

The Treatygate campaign will involve TV and print advertisements, dependent on funding. However, Ansell says: “The NZ media are pretty gutless so they probably won’t run the ads, so we may have to find other ways of getting them to the public – putting them in letterboxes, dropping them from planes, whatever it takes.”

As well as whipping up public sentiment in favour of a colourblind state, Ansell hopes his campaign will “turn people around from the belief that if you say one thing against this rort then you’re a racist. It’s a tough road, because in America you’re a racist if you wear a white hood and want to lynch black people, and in NZ you’re a racist if you want racial equality.”

Funding is the biggest roadblock standing in the way of Ansell’s campaign so far – although he is aiming for a “political party-type budget” of $2 million, several of his donors have bailed out on him, including one “patriot” who had originally pledged $250,000. Despite this setback, Ansell remains hopeful that funding will trickle in over time. “Hopefully we can start with something small and it’ll snowball. I will be putting out my prospectus to as many people I can think of as possible, with deep pockets, who might be prepared to help, and to ordinary people.”

Note John has commented on the articles in the comments below it.

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187 Responses to “Critic on Treatygate”

  1. toad (3,654 comments) says:

    Wonder if Ansell and Crimp be employing Kyle Chapman as the campaign manager for signature collection? With hard core racists like Ansell (too extreme even for Don Brash) and Crimp (of “sex against a tree” notoriety) behind this, I doubt they will reach the signature threshold to force a referendum.

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  2. Pete George (21,798 comments) says:

    If both petitions get enough signatures the CIRs could be done at the same time, that would save quite a bit of money. I’m sure Labour and Greens would be happy to do this and share the limelight.

    Ansell has plenty about his proposals on http://johnansell.wordpress.com/2012/08/12/treatygate-time-to-expose-the-con/

    But What Can We Do?

    It will take money, but I believe the secret of success is a powerful public education campaign using the plainest of English, rolling out one fascinating fact, one ad or poster at a time.

    The goal is to get sheepish Kiwis, ‘the Passionless People’, to understand what has been done to them, and to tell their politicians, “We’re mad as hell and we’re not going to take it any more!”

    If we can make Treatygate a Top Three issue when the big parties do their polling, then our leaders will have no choice but to listen and act.

    Here’s the plan…

    How to Defeat the Con

    1. Launch Colourblind New Zealand, and set a goal to lock in one law for all by December 2014.
    2. Raise a $2 million fighting fund so the politicians know we’re able to embarrass them.
    3. Petition for a referendum at the 2014 election. Question: “Do you want New Zealand to be a Colourblind State, with one law for all, and no racial favouritism of any kind?”
    4. How to make the PM obey the referendum result? Run lots of bold Treatygate ads telling voters just who has been conning them, and how.
    5. If media refuse to run these ads, use rival media to expose them as part of the con.
    6. Bombard government MPs with instructions from their voters to obey their will.
    7. Support local body campaigns on Maori wards (typically attracting an 80% NO vote).

    With your support I hope to work full-time on this project until we achieve a Colourblind New Zealand.

    The racially-rigged Constitutional Advisory Panel has already begun the process of changing the constitution by stealth, meeting mainly with Maori groups in contravention of its pledge to meet a wide range of New Zealanders.

    So there’s not a moment to lose.

    Because truth does matter.

    I wonder who will be willing to fund this. And drive the petition – as the asset sales campaign has shown there are substantial logistics and personnel required.

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  3. hmmokrightitis (1,458 comments) says:

    Wow, the character assainations start early on Mondays dont they? Screw the message, lets attack the people.

    Is that how youd like the green pollies and supporters to be treated toad, or is that different?

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  4. eszett (2,264 comments) says:

    Just highlights why CIRs are a crock of shit in a democracy and prone to be highjacked by demagogoues.
    No serious and comlicated questions can be answered with a simple yes or no answer.

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  5. Viking2 (10,701 comments) says:

    Keep paying the Horis for their myths and lifestyles.
    Long overdue argument. Especially as the Treaty isn’t the correct version anyway.

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  6. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    Sign me up!

    Toad- By calling Ansell a “hard-core racist” you have just proven him right.That’s the whole point, if anyone dares to suggest the truth about the gravy train that the Treaty of Waitangi has become they are automatically compared to the Ku Klux Klan by greedy Maori and the wowsers that support them…

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  7. fish_boy (152 comments) says:

    John Ansell is a hard core racist and Crimp is a dinosaur from the nineteenth century who should just hurry up and die.

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  8. nasska (9,478 comments) says:

    The key point:

    …”in America you’re a racist if you wear a white hood and want to lynch black people, and in NZ you’re a racist if you want racial equality.””….

    The proposed campaign seeks merely to restore the rights of non Maori so that all citizens are equal.

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  9. George Patton (330 comments) says:

    I support one law for all. The only problem is, by judging Crimp and Ansell’s previous activities, it’s unlikely this will be a positive, forward looking campaign.

    It’s far more likely to be angry, and backwards looking. I still cringe when I think of “Opposed to the Maorification of everything”

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  10. hmmokrightitis (1,458 comments) says:

    Now, if theres any consistency whatsoever, fish should be getting some demerits in 3,2,1…

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  11. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    “With hard core racists like Ansell…”

    typical asshole response..drag out the racist word…but thanks , you have just convinced me to donate 100 bucks to John Ansell’s cause.

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  12. Other_Andy (2,079 comments) says:

    I think Rodney Hide said it well in the Herald this weekend.

    End the Treaty gravy train
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10826283

    Just one thing struck me on this press release.

    “Maori companies pay 17.5% tax, [while] others pay 28%.”

    Is this true or is there more to it?

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  13. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    Fish Boy that’s pretty repugnant- John Harawiria and Margaret Mutu are amongst the most vile and hate-fuelled racists in New Zealand but despite my revulsion I certainly don’t wish ‘death’ upon them. That is pretty extreme dude…

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  14. toad (3,654 comments) says:

    @Longknives 9:01 am

    By calling Ansell a “hard-core racist” you have just proven him right.

    The only thing I have proven him right about is that people will call him racist. That is because he is.

    He is campaigning to disregard the provisions of a Treaty signed in good faith between two peoples, and campaigning to lock in the economic, social and cultural disadvantage that has been inflicted upon one of those peoples by the other failing to abide by the provisions of that Treaty.

    What is that if it is not racism?

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  15. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    Bet ya didnt know Ngai Tahu is regietered as a charity and pay no tax. Pay NO tax..thats right. Shotover Jet..once a stand alone company paid tax once upon a time…Ngai Tahu purchased it , placed it in the fold and it now pays no tax. How is that fair. Why is NT registered as a charity? How is that fair?

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  16. wiseowl (571 comments) says:

    Toad obviously doesn’t know what racism is.

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  17. Scott Hamilton (235 comments) says:

    The trouble with poor old John is that he’s a lizard creature:
    http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2012/04/john-ansell-lizard-creature_9281.html
    Seriously, there are unpleasant conspiracy theories that come along with his populist anti-Treaty rhetoric. John is hanging out with the likes of One New Zealand Foundation and Martin Doutre the crowd who gave us the Littlewood Treaty and the ‘Celts were here thousands of years before Maori’ ‘theory’

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  18. Redbaiter (6,464 comments) says:

    How shameful that the John Key National Party is encouraging the kind of racism and separatism that has prompted Mr. Ansell to take this action.

    What a disgraceful pack of spineless losers they are.

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  19. Colville (1,768 comments) says:

    Its certianly a message that would resonate with NZ taxpayers and if handled half decently would bolt in to the 300K signatures.
    Perfect timing too with some tough ecconomic conditions people wanting to see tax dollars being spent well and not loaded onto the gravy train.

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  20. Redbaiter (6,464 comments) says:

    “The trouble with poor old John is that he’s a lizard creature”

    John Ansell has far more integrity than you will ever have.

    Anyone who allows fake comments to stand on their blog (and probably writes them himself anyway) is irredeemably marked as absolute lowlife.

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  21. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    Does anyone remember the Coastal Coalition’s “Iwi/Kiwi” billboards, and the huge result they achieved?
    Nah, I didn’t think so :-)

    John Ansell’s antics remind me of a white South African foreman electrician I had to do some work with. He was all “If we were back in South Africa I would kick your KAFFER ARSE boy…” whenever he was pushing his own little (pakeha) boys around.

    But he would go strangely silent whenever big 7-foot Moli the carpenter was around, or the three Maori boys doing all the paper hanging. Funny, that… :-)

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  22. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    John Ansell is correct. One law for all is what we need. The one law for all campaign was first started in early 2000 by Tim Whikiriki (Hamilton Maori candidate) for the Libertarians. Somehow Don Brash ran with it in the National’s campaign in 2005 election.

    Sign me up as well.

    Does this mean that I’m racist too?

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  23. Scott Hamilton (235 comments) says:

    What do you think about the Littlewood Treaty Ansell claims is the real thing Redbaiter? And how about the theory that a race of Celtic giants arrived in NZ thousands of years ago and set up an advanced civilisation before being knocked off by Maori?

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  24. Linda Reid (385 comments) says:

    RRM. Really?

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  25. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    Linda – which part?

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  26. YesWeDid (1,002 comments) says:

    This is the same John Ansell who predicted that ACT would get 40% of the vote at the last election and Don Brash would be Prime Minister?

    He is too out of touch and too extreme and should be laughed at or ignored.

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  27. gazzmaniac (2,266 comments) says:

    I’ll sign the petition.
    I’ll even fly back from Queensland specially to do it.

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  28. davidp (3,319 comments) says:

    toad>He is campaigning to disregard the provisions of a Treaty signed in good faith between two peoples

    Another treaty that is regularly ignored is the Magna Carta. The Magna Carta gave barons certain rights to rule the country and exempted them from normal judicial rule. It enforced limits on the financial affairs of jews. It gave foreign businessmen the rights to enter the country at will. And it removed the ability of officials to levy administrative penalties without trial.

    So I’m with Toad and the Greens on this… The government must take immediate steps to enforce the Magna Carta. It can start by creating a House of Lords for NZ that will be full of British barons. Jewish financier John Key should be stripped of his wealth and then burned at the stake. Visa controls on foreign businessmen must be removed so that they can come and go as they like. The Police have to stop handing out fines by the side of the road. And Councils have to stop fining illegal parkers by leaving tickets under their wipers.

    Modern human rights have gone too far. We need to enforce these ancient treaties, and we need to do it now!

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  29. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    This is real equality,not the fake shite the left and “progressives”throw around.

    And on cue the usual suspects turn up to prove Ansells assertions,toad,fish boy,RRM,eszett.

    We even get the “referenda aren’t democratic” bollocks.We hear this when they’re afraid of losing.

    We need binding referenda.It is true democracy.

    I cringe at the maorification of every thing. Look at the Olympics and RWC,it’s dragged into everything. Even the army changed their badge or whatever the proper name for it is to include a maori spear,instead of the traditional 2 crossed swords.

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  30. Other_Andy (2,079 comments) says:

    On the topic

    More from the Hatfield ‘clan with a tan’.

    http://tvnz.co.nz/close-up/tuesday-april-24-4849368/video?vid=4849501

    We are going to take our land back.
    We are tired of negotiating.
    Pakeha should be treated as guests.
    This pakeha government is illegal.
    Etc….

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  31. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    From Not PC blog

    It’s those fantastical ‘Treaty of Waitangi Principles’ again

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  32. Alan Johnstone (908 comments) says:

    “Why is NT registered as a charity? ”

    I’m guessing because it meets the legal requirements defined in the act ? http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2005/0039/latest/096be8ed8040edad.pdf

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  33. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    Here is another one from Peter Creswell of Not PC blog:

    ‘One-Law-For-All’ Day

    Can some historians on this thread try to refute Peter Creswell’s points in his article? Try and refute the man’s points and not try to jump and say that Peter is racist.

    Ok, go ahead historians.

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  34. Scott Hamilton (235 comments) says:

    Here’s a debate I and others had with Martin Doutre, the man Ansell has praised on his blog for opening eyes to NZ’s real history. As well as giving us the lowdown on those ancient Celtic giants and the secret version of the TOW, Doutre responds to accusations that he’s a 9/11 Truther and a Holocaust denier by…maintaining 9/11 was an inside job and praising David Irving:
    http://books.scoop.co.nz/2008/11/18/no-to-nazi-pseudo-history-an-open-letter/

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  35. Redbaiter (6,464 comments) says:

    “Try and refute the man’s points and not try to jump and say that Peter is racist.”

    They can’t, the cry of “racist” has become the resort of every cowardly lying sneaking duplicitous Marxist country splitting piece of excrement out there.

    These Marxist scum have no argument and as usual their Alinsky style strategy is to smear and discredit and ridicule anyone who has an idea they disagree with.

    Just Marxist vermin and a terrible stain upon our culture and our democracy.

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  36. Linda Reid (385 comments) says:

    RRM – comparing Ansell to some guy you used to know, and then attributing all his faults to Ansell. You can argue any point you want, but I’m surprised you chose that angle as it doesn’t mean anything.

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  37. Redbaiter (6,464 comments) says:

    I repeat- Anyone allowing fake posts on their blog has no integrity and therefore no right to sit in judgment of others and/ or accuse anyone of deceit.

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  38. Scott Hamilton (235 comments) says:

    Falafulu – John’s argument isn’t the same as Cresswell’s or other right-wing critics of the TOW like Michael Bassett. John’s argument relies on there being a secret version of the TOW, the so-called Littlewood document, which a Marxist-Maori-UN conspiracy represses.

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  39. Scott Hamilton (235 comments) says:

    Are you a Littlewood man, then RB?

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  40. Keeping Stock (9,788 comments) says:

    toad said

    Wonder if Ansell and Crimp be employing Kyle Chapman as the campaign manager for signature collection? With hard core racists like Ansell (too extreme even for Don Brash) and Crimp (of “sex against a tree” notoriety) behind this, I doubt they will reach the signature threshold to force a referendum.

    They may get enough signatures toad, or they may not. But I’m willing to wager that no taxpayer funds will be used to pay for an army of signature gatherers, in the same way that the Greens did.

    And in the meantime, no doubt the Greens will maintain their moral high ground and refrain from ad hominems. Oh wait; you already have resorted to ad homs…

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  41. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Ansell, Chapmam, Crimp and Brash – Sounds like the 2014 ACT party list.

    Can’t see too many New Zealanders signing that petition.

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  42. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    I support the idea of one New Zealand, a place where race-based policy is eradicated, and where public resources are accessed based on need, not skin colour. I’ve just donated to the campaign.

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  43. grumpy (226 comments) says:

    So, here we are in New Zealand 2012, with the right arguing for the end of race based policies and the left fighting tooth and nail to not only keep discrimination but to enshrine it as the founding principle of the country.

    All those who oppose racism are to be viciously attacked through the media and ion some cases even wished dead.

    Strange but true………….

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  44. laworder (265 comments) says:

    The Treatygate campaign is too extreme for my liking, but the Colourblind one I do agree with. Racial equality is a good thing. Unfortunately some of the stuff Mr Crimp has come out with in the past has been counterproductive, and will be held against him.

    Regards
    Peter J
    see http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz

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  45. Manolo (12,617 comments) says:

    Members of the brocracy are milking the systemn and living a wonderful life at taxpayer’s expense.
    The tribal system, well exploited by the Maori elite, is corrupt to the bone.

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  46. Redbaiter (6,464 comments) says:

    “Are you a Littlewood man, then RB?”

    I’m merely someone who tries to be true to myself. I would never indulge in the kind of cowardly deceit I assert you are guilty of.

    It does not matter what your pov is on this or anything. You have already identified yourself as completely untrustworthy and unprincipled.

    I repeat- no one to be calling John Ansell’s credibility into question.

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  47. dime (8,746 comments) says:

    “campaigning to lock in the economic, social and cultural disadvantage that has been inflicted upon one of those peoples by the other failing to abide by the provisions of that Treaty.”

    Exactly! that’s why we should all be treated the same! as a white guy who’s family were pioneers of this country i shouldn’t be disadvantaged.

    Those of us who dont hate ourselves for being white get the shits with the gravy train.

    personally it makes me sick that we target maori for all sorts of hand outs and programs while forgetting about poor people of other cultures/ races.

    how about we stop the colour bullshit and help those who need it. simple.

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  48. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    Property Rights: A Blessing for Maori New Zealand (by Peter Cresswell)

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  49. Scott Hamilton (235 comments) says:

    Are you sure not one of those whingeing ‘grievers’ John Ansell is complaining about, RB? Someone made some sort of comment impersonating you on my blog once and it invalidates everything I’ve ever written? Grow up.

    For a straight shooter you’re pretty reluctant to say whether your defence of Ansell applies to his key ideas. Are you a Littlewood and Celtic NZ believer, and what do you make of the admitted Holocaust denial and 9/ Trutherism of the creator of those theories and mentor to Ansell, Martin Doutre?

    When Jeanette Fitzsimmons played with 9/11 Trutherism she was rightly slammed on this blog and elsewhere – John Ansell should get the same treatment.

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  50. Pete George (21,798 comments) says:

    no one to be calling John Ansell’s credibility into question.

    He made claims about Act’s support for the last election, and his credibility took a severe beating.

    He’s backed claims and made claims about an alternative history of our country that are not seen as credible except by a few nutters.

    Not a surprise that RB supports him.

    There are valid questions to be asked about the Treaty, the ‘grievance industry’ and perceived favouritism towards things Maori – many Maori have valid claims but some overplay their hands – but an extreme campaign is likely to be counterproductive.

    And calls for equality might have more credibility if everyone started as equal, but the statistics prove that’s not how things are.

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  51. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    Pete George –

    Yes indeed, I wonder if immediately returning all stolen / confiscated land to the original owners is a part of the Ansell “equality” formula?

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  52. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    Or will it be more about an “equal” divvying-up of the stolen goods…? ;-)

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  53. Scott Hamilton (235 comments) says:

    ‘I wonder if immediately returning all stolen / confiscated land to the original owners is a part of the Ansell “equality” formula?’

    Yep. Trouble is that, for Ansell and Doutre, those original owners were white.
    http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2008/08/victory-for-white-tangata-whenua.html

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  54. wreck1080 (3,522 comments) says:

    One thing that strikes you when returning to NZ, is the amount of energy wasted on ‘treaty’ issues.

    I wonder how much drag on economic growth this causes? Maybe it is one of the reasons NZ constantly underperforms .

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  55. Redbaiter (6,464 comments) says:

    ” it invalidates everything I’ve ever written?”

    Impersonating another commenter is one of the lowest and most cowardly acts in the blogosphere. That you condone such deceit or are possibly even guilty of it yourself truly does invalidate any of your personal judgments on the integrity of John Ansell or anyone.

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  56. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    Scott Hamilton –

    Yes, it’s almost reached a stage where we need some kind of extra-judicial tribunal to investigate and report on whose claims of theft have merit and whose don’t…

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  57. Pete George (21,798 comments) says:

    Redbaiter at 10.13 am:

    These Marxist scum have no argument and as usual their Alinsky style strategy is to smear and discredit and ridicule anyone who has an idea they disagree with.

    Ah, RB, all you ever seem to do is try and smear and discredit anyone you diasagree with. And that’s all you have done here today. Are you a Marxist scum or something?

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  58. Redbaiter (6,464 comments) says:

    Peter George too is one of the most disreputable and cowardly smearers to be found.

    He frequently makes completely unwarranted and unsubstantiated smears against his political opponents (such as I was engineering the high level of approval my comments attract on Whale Oil.)

    If both Hamilton and PG are so vehemently intent on destroying Ansell he must be on to something of some value.

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  59. Other_Andy (2,079 comments) says:

    @RRM

    Those ‘real’ claims were settled many years ago.
    Most ‘tribes’ are up to their second or even third ‘full and final settlement’.
    We are now up to the plants, water, sea, radio waves, fish, birds, oil, gas and power stations that were all ‘stolen’.

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  60. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (454) Says:
    August 13th, 2012 at 11:16 am

    Peter George too is one of the most disreputable and cowardly smearers to be found.

    I love how you talk about someone’s “reputation” as though it’s something you yourself can bestow or strip away. It’s eerily reminiscent of the Ministry of Love…

    In other news, on your own blog you’ve banging on in post after post about what cynical progressive frauds David Farrar and Cameron Slater are. But that doesn’t stop you spamming Kiwiblog & Whale Oil all day with your link-whoring comments.

    Where’s the integrity in THAT, eh baiter? ;-)

    If you don’t like Kiwiblog, maybe you shouldn’t hang out here all day?

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  61. Scott Hamilton (235 comments) says:

    In the post I linked to near the start of this thread I argued that Ansell can get the thumbs up from many Pakeha for his populist Treaty-bashing, but that he can’t build a mass campaign because of the weird conspiracy theories he lugs around. We can see in this thread that even RB isn’t quite foolish enough to endorse the ‘secret’ Littlewood Treaty and the notion that giant Celts wandered NZ thousands of years ago. If even RB won’t jump aboard his bandwagon, I don’t think Ansell will win a majority of NZers to his views.

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  62. John Ansell (861 comments) says:

    This is building nicely.

    What matters is what percentage of the population wants a Colourblind State, free of all racial favouritism. All indications from local polls on Maori wards is that the number is 80%.

    Are you critics saying that 80% of New Zealanders are racists?

    We’ve had a succession of governments that have taken it upon themselves to suspend our democracy.

    Part of that has involved getting our educators to suspend truth.

    I just think it’s time to reactivate that democracy, and tell that truth.

    (Oh, and throw all those who have been conning us in prison for fraud.)

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  63. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Who will collect signatures? Could be a difficult job explaining what the petition is about.

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  64. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    Former Hamilton Libertarian candidate Tim Wikiriwhi (who started the one law for all campaign about 10 years ago) had a good argument here on Marae TV (2010) on treaty gravy train.

    The Great Waitangi Debate 2010 Marae TV

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  65. Pete George (21,798 comments) says:

    (such as I was engineering the high level of approval my comments attract on Whale Oil.)

    I noted that your ‘Likes’ are unusually high there, compared to anyone else, compared to your apparent popularity and your preference for abuse.

    But you could put it to rest by saying categorically that you do nothing to engineer that.

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  66. Pete George (21,798 comments) says:

    (Oh, and throw all those who have been conning us in prison for fraud.)

    Does that apply to fraudulant claims about the history of New Zealand?

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  67. Redbaiter (6,464 comments) says:

    “But you could put it to rest by saying categorically that you do nothing to engineer that.”

    You have absolutely no grounds whatsoever for making such an allegation. Not the slightest hint of even a skerrick of proof. The allegation is nothing but a cowardly smear and my preference is to treat both the allegation and the yellow scum making it with the contempt they so utterly and completely deserve.

    You disgust me.

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  68. grumpy (226 comments) says:

    Trying to get out of the :roll: over at the Standard, eh Pete?

    Talk about Stockholm Syndrome……

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  69. david c (254 comments) says:

    I would direct you all to:

    http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2011/04/28/why-brash-is-a-racist/

    Never say I don’t do anything for you buggers

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  70. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (455) Says:
    Impersonating another commenter is one of the lowest and most cowardly acts in the blogosphere. That you condone such deceit or are possibly even guilty of it yourself truly does invalidate any of your personal judgments on the integrity of John Ansell or anyone.

    Redbaiter (455) Says:
    You have absolutely no grounds whatsoever for making such an allegation. Not the slightest hint of even a skerrick of proof. The allegation is nothing but a cowardly smear and my preference is to treat both the allegation and the yellow scum making it with the contempt they so utterly and completely deserve.

    You disgust me.

    The juxtaposition of these two comments is something I find quite delicious. :lol:

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  71. John Ansell (861 comments) says:

    Pete George: I do think those who have masterminded the indoctrination of New Zealanders with false history belong in prison, yes.

    My campaign will expose people at the highest levels of the New Zealand elites: political, bureaucratic, academic, judicial, legal, media and iwi.

    If they get to me, there are plenty of others who are now in possession of the information. It’s a national disgrace, and the truth will be told.

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  72. Redbaiter (6,464 comments) says:

    “The juxtaposition of these two comments is something I find quite delicious.”

    Except that the numerous fake comments remain on Hamilton’s blog even after he has been informed so there is plenty of evidence you smug ignorant fool.

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  73. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (456) Says:

    Except that the numerous fake comments remain on Hamilton’s blog even after he has been informed so there is plenty of evidence you smug ignorant fool.

    What evidence?

    You have absolutely no grounds whatsoever for making such an allegation. Not the slightest hint of even a skerrick of proof. The allegation is nothing but a cowardly smear and my preference is to treat both the allegation and the yellow scum making it with the contempt they so utterly and completely deserve.

    You disgust me.

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  74. Pete George (21,798 comments) says:

    What’s your timeframe John?

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  75. grumpy (226 comments) says:

    Perhaps I can explain RRM’s concerns a bit more clearly

    http://sultanknish.blogspot.com.au/2012/08/the-minority-victim-value-index.html

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  76. MajorBloodnok (361 comments) says:

    I’m happy to support John’s campaign, including with money.

    It’s amusing (and disappointing) that the opponents are so vitriolic and irrational. I expect that the average kiwi will be delighted to sign the proposed referendum.

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  77. Viking2 (10,701 comments) says:

    Clearly the person who guises him/herself as Scott Hamilton has no idea what the Littlewood Treaty is.
    Perhaps he/she should consult Google and find out.
    He could of course wander over tho NZCPR.com and there are pages and pages of discussion on the document and the Celts.
    He could become much better informed of our countries true history instead of trying to defend the modern lies and mistruths that have permeated that history.

    But he/she won’t. Closed mind of a fool.

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  78. gravedodger (1,426 comments) says:

    Supposing all the “stolen lands” and “confiscated Lands” are returned to who.
    How long will the super hooey last that sorts all the inter-tribal activity in the dark past.

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  79. Dave Stringer (182 comments) says:

    colour blind?

    YES PLEASE

    Just show me where to sign!

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  80. Dougal (11 comments) says:

    Yes Crimp is a very sick man so the sooner he goes the better we will be without him.

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  81. mavxp (490 comments) says:

    Colour-blind, Religion-blind, and Freedom of Speech protected & enshrined in a Constitution.

    Why limit yourself to Race? Open it up for all the Liberties we must have for the Just State.

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  82. my 2 cents (1,091 comments) says:

    I can’t wait for when NZ has no race based laws, until then we are a racist country that practices a apartheid against the majority of New Zealanders.

    The Maori seats are racist as is the lesser taxes maori companies pay (if that is true) as they are race based and totally wrong for a fair New Zealand.
    NZ society is skewed left as it is so John Ansell and others are always protrayed as right wing or racists in order to label them and denigrate their message.

    I’ll sign up too.
    A colour blind NZ, yes please!

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  83. Paul Williams (867 comments) says:

    Ansell and Crimp, yup that’s a pairing of equals. Throw in Michael Lhwas or Cristine Rankin and you’d have a formidable trilogy. This combo must surely prove some universal law of idiocy.

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  84. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Updated 2014 ACT list:

    1. Ansell
    2. Crimp
    3. Chapman
    4. Laws
    5. Rankin

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  85. nasska (9,478 comments) says:

    Louis Crimp is to the Pakeha cause what Hone Harawira is to the Maori argument. Both are extremists & the birdbath shallow media will chase them for their batshit mad opinions.

    Better that the debate that is needed occurs soon before the sides get hopelessly polarised.

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  86. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    “Yes Crimp is a very sick man so the sooner he goes the better we will be without him.”

    Yes [ insert maori radical's name from vast list] is a very sick man…the sooner he goes the better we will be without him..

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  87. toad (3,654 comments) says:

    Crimp:

    All the white New Zealanders I’ve spoken to don’t like the Maoris, the way they are full of crime and welfare.

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  88. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    “All the white New Zealanders I’ve spoken to don’t like the Maoris, the way they are full of crime and welfare.”

    Whats your point?

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  89. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    liarbors – Think about Crimp’s comment, it’s completely false.

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  90. Rich Prick (1,319 comments) says:

    Oh dear. The standard operating procedure is in full swing. Some one who argues against preference based on race is attacked personally. But the argument itself is ignored, I suppose that’s because no one can credibly say preference based on race is a good thing.

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  91. david c (254 comments) says:

    Oi! Rich Prick, as I said earlier: the reason why what Ansell is preaching is racist is neatly summed up here:

    http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2011/04/28/why-brash-is-a-racist/

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  92. toad (3,654 comments) says:

    @Rich Prick 2:10 pm

    Oh dear. The standard operating procedure is in full swing. Some one who argues against preference based on race…

    That’s not what Ansell’s arguing at all. When our law looked like it may find certain seabed and foreshore land to be owned by Maori, Ansell fronted the campaign for a law to extinguish any Maori claim to ownership. That was not “one law for all” – what he argued for was a discriminatory law that impacted adversely only on Maori.

    And when the National Government proposed to moderate that law to restore at least some of the Maori rights that had been extinguished by the Foreshore and Seabed Act, Ansell was one of the leading lights in the Coastal Coalition’s opposition to that, seeking to retain the racially discriminatory law Labour had implemented.

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  93. Cunningham (746 comments) says:

    Part of the problem is we have no idea where the money goes. If Maori are using this money wisely to improve the plight of their people then the opposition would be reduced significiantly. As it is, people see the money given to Maori as a black hole where they suspect it is used by a few to live the high life. Maori should open up about what they do with it. I know they don’t have to but if they truly care about race relations then they should show it is being used wisely and helping poor maori. After all they consistently tell us it is required because they are so behind. Well prove it is reversing this!!

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  94. Rich Prick (1,319 comments) says:

    Toad, fantastic, you now tackle the argument rather than the person. That’s what I was looking for.

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  95. nasska (9,478 comments) says:

    Cunningham

    They don’t have to & they won’t because by showing where the money goes they would demonstrate that over 95% of those who identify as Maori have never seen a cracker of the settlement money & never will. Treaty settlements were made to tribes who could trace their whakapapa, create a claim, cook up a good line & sing it in unison.

    A huge number of Maori migrated to the cities in the fifties through to the seventies often leaving behind their tribal identities. Even when retained they were weakened so when the big gimmee started the tribal elders & the elite were left to share the spoils amongst them.

    Urban Maori are nothing but useful idiots & foot soldiers for the BME owners who attend hui after hui, endlessly yapping & wailing over the lot of their people while creating empires for themselves. They have more to lose than anyone if their featherbedding was to be exposed.

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  96. Redbaiter (6,464 comments) says:

    “Think about Crimp’s comment, it’s completely false.”

    The comment was-

    “All the white New Zealanders I’ve spoken to don’t like the Maoris, the way they are full of crime and welfare.”

    You would not have any way of knowing who Crimp has spoken to or what their views were. Your allegation is totally baseless.

    Your claim that Crimp’s statement is false is totally without evidence.

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  97. Cunningham (746 comments) says:

    nasska I would like to think it is being used to help maori but sadly I am not confident that it is. I would love to know how it is being used. The media should dig into it. Maybe after hell freezes over they will.

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  98. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    well I never…

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/219766/mob-used-govt-cash-drugs-police

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10826513

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  99. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    Toad said…
    When our law looked like it may find certain seabed and foreshore land to be owned by Maori

    Peter Creswell touched on that briefly here. In his view that both Labour & National were wrong in relation to the concept of property rights.

    A Brash dismissal of Maori rights?

    I think that Maori claimants should have been allowed to argue their claims in court but which they didn’t have a chance. I recalled Rodney Hide (or Richard Prebble) making the same arguments to allow Maori claimants to prove their property rights case in courts. The Labour Govt, didn’t give them a chance.

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  100. john.bt (170 comments) says:

    They will certainly be getting a few bucks from me.

    The largest poll I saw after Don Brash’s 2004 Orewa speech entitled ‘One law for all’ involved nearly 40,000 people which is huge for NZ. Brash had the support of 90% of respondents. It is a shame National forgot about that.

    The only winners from the grievance industry are the professional Maori and the lawyers.

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  101. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    john.bt

    I don’t think National forgot it. The National insiders decided to ignore it.Same with the parental discipline referenda.They amaze me. And now under Key they’ve jumped into bed with the racist party whose seats it is policy is to abolish…….Tui moment.

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  102. UpandComer (496 comments) says:

    Oh well, the Greens began this trend with their anti-asset sales referendum paid for with taxpayers money. What did they think, that no one else could find an issue to have a referendum on? Way to go Greens. You can’t criticize this move, at all.

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  103. wat dabney (3,428 comments) says:

    When our law looked like it may find certain seabed and foreshore land to be owned by Maori

    The idea that land can be owned by a race is appalling.

    And isn’t it strange how toad supports property rights when it’s convenient.

    If workers’ incomes can be seized by the state for redistribution then the same goes for land.

    Where’s my 100 acres?

    Either that, or Maori must sell every acre of their land before claiming 1c of workers’ incomes as handouts.

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  104. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Redbaiter – Seriously? All the white New Zealanders he has spoken to don’t like Maoris (sic)? Full of crime and welfare?

    The truth is some white New Zealanders he has spoken to don’t like Maoris (sic). Some Maori are into welfare and crime.

    I note Crimp is ACTs largest donor. I think that is sick.

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  105. John Ansell (861 comments) says:

    I challenge every New Zealand media outlet to poll their readers on whether they support a New Zealand without any form of state racial favouritism.

    A democracy worthy of the name does what a majority of its people want – so let’s find out if the people want a Colourblind State or not.

    Any media outlet which is not prepared to so poll its readers can be exposed as part of the Treatygate scandal.

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  106. Viking2 (10,701 comments) says:

    Why, just because all you can do is 2 bob to the greens or labour doesn’t mean others shouldn’t donate their OWN money to another cause.
    Idiot and broken arse.

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  107. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Treatygate? Don’t you mean The Treaty of Waitangi?

    I don’t think you and Crimp have much of a mandate while ACT polls 0.4%.

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  108. wat dabney (3,428 comments) says:

    Er, the whole point is to organise a signature collection.

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  109. Jimmy Smits (246 comments) says:

    Toad – if John Ansell is a racist, then what are your views on the following:

    “Maori companies pay 17.5% tax, [while] others pay 28%.”

    Do you believe this is fair? If so, on what basis? Please explain.

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  110. Yvette (2,589 comments) says:

    Colourblind State
    John Ansell, you are the advertising guru
    You should know “Colourblind” is a big negative
    Television or newspaper ads, how the hell are you going to do “colour blind”?
    You should instead use “Rainbow state” – where all colours blend into one entity without one dominant, especially not too much brown
    Nice ‘green’ word AND of course it is a gay term
    But steal the fucker back – just as they think they can take over the term “marriage”
    There would be free milage in the media confusion and definition of the word “Rainbow”.
    It would also help reverse the image of your Central Casting side-kick Louis Crimp and counter his tree loving thing
    See if that horse’s ass Chauvel thinks he has copyrighted “Rainbow”
    Rainbow Nation is a term coined by Archbishop Desmond Tutu to describe post-apartheid South Africa, after South Africa’s first fully democratic election in 1994.
    Rainbow Nation – New Zealand post apartheid
    Steal the bloody word “nation” too
    Don’t be a pussy – get stuck in

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  111. ross69 (3,637 comments) says:

    John

    Did you protest against the Springboks tour in 1981?

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  112. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    The only racists in this country are the brown fellows who have been steeped in the gravy train. It all started with scum like Norman Kirk and perpetuated by crap like Lange, who sensed some sort of strange political power for his side in in it all.
    All turned to shit for him of course. Carried on by the despicable Rod Donald.
    All it’s done is fucked the Country. About what you expect from Socialists.

    Vote for the Gay marriage act. Should help eliminate them a bit quicker! :)

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  113. duggledog (1,102 comments) says:

    John Ansell your problem is being associated with Louis Crimp who may be a stand-up dude but he is inarticulate and just easy, easy meat for John Campbell et al. They’ll just edit in some bits of that Christchurch nazi twat and you’re buggered

    You may well have the vast majority of NZers behind you and you may well be a very smart advertising man but I dunno. How are you going to make the connection and drive this through? Get the sheep thru the gate?

    Like, as soon as someone called Don Brash ‘Frank Burns’ it seemed like it was all over. A highly respected RB governer and he was destroyed in one interview by what’s her name on the student radio about the Brethren.

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  114. eszett (2,264 comments) says:

    You should instead use “Rainbow state” – where all colours blend into one entity without one dominant

    Not a bad idea,

    when you blend all colours into one you get …. white.

    Would have thought that is quite appealing.

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  115. eszett (2,264 comments) says:

    John Ansell (824) Says:
    August 13th, 2012 at 6:34 pm

    I challenge every New Zealand media outlet to poll their readers on whether they support a New Zealand without any form of state racial favouritism.

    Maori are at the bottom of nearly every social stat.
    I would say there is clearly a form a favouritism, but it certainly is not towards Maori.

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  116. mikenmild (8,742 comments) says:

    Yvette, for NZ to become ‘post apartheid’, it would have to be an apartheid state now; which it isn’t.

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  117. thedavincimode (6,102 comments) says:

    Hamstrung at the first hurdle by the name of the sponsor.

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  118. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    “Maori are at the bottom of nearly every social stat.
    I would say there is clearly a form a favouritism, but it certainly is not towards Maori.”

    Perhaps if you persist at luxuriating at the bottom of the education stat it becomes self perpetuating eszett?

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  119. leftyliberal (598 comments) says:

    @Jimmy Smits: And you’ve taken the statement “Maori companies pay 17.5% tax, [while] others pay 28%.” at face value, without thinking that perhaps it’s just a little bit disingenuous?

    Fact is that the 17.5% tax applies to Maori Authorities, not to “Maori companies” of which there is no such thing. The tax rate on these is set at the corresponding rate for the individuals most likely to be members of the authority – i.e. equivalent to the 17.5% personal tax rate that most members will be on (less than 48k). Those members of Maori Authorities earning more than 17.5% will pay more tax on top of that based on any income they receive from the Authority. Just like you and I pay more than the 28% rate on our dividends, as I’m sure you’re in the same boat as me, on the highest tax rate.

    You can see the policy rationale at this link from IRD:

    http://taxpolicy.ird.govt.nz/publications/2010-ris-sop-187-gstrm-bill/lower-income-tax-rate-maori-authorities

    I’m sure that Mr Ansell was going to include this information in his advert, though it does somewhat take the wind out of the soundbite, huh?

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  120. Trina (2 comments) says:

    OMG! Someone is going to push a referendum to abolish race based policies in New Zealand! YES! Give me the form . . . wheres the form . . . I want to sign it yesterday!!!!!!

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  121. mikenmild (8,742 comments) says:

    lefty
    That’s very naughty, introducing facts into the argument.

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  122. nasska (9,478 comments) says:

    eszett

    I reckon that Johnboy pretty much summed it up……educated Maori don’t seem to figure in the doldrums when it comes to health or unemployment. Those featuring at the bottom seem to have one thing in common. They all spend their school years arsing around & accomplishing bugger all then moving on to early parenthood & instilling the same anti education crap into the next generation.

    I can’t think offhand, of many ways to make someone learn what is put in front of them for free. May be instead of cuddling these poor downtrodden people to your bosom & party voting lists you could think of some way to get them to sort out their own lives.

    Throwing good money after bad doesn’t seem to help much.

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  123. mikenmild (8,742 comments) says:

    ‘Those featuring at the bottom seem to have one thing in common. They all spend their school years arsing around & accomplishing bugger all then moving on to early parenthood & instilling the same anti education crap into the next generation.’
    Funnily enough, this seems to be a characteristic of those at the bottom irrespective of race.

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  124. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    You forgot beating their Bro’s to death cause they joined the other gang nasska.

    Still we wouldn’t want sense to get in the way of a good right/left argument of course! :)

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  125. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    So you think white trash need to be sorted then milkey? :)

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  126. toad (3,654 comments) says:

    @wat dabney 6:09 pm

    The idea that land can be owned by a race is appalling. And isn’t it strange how toad supports property rights when it’s convenient.

    Not by a race, but by particular iwi and hapu.

    And I don’t support property rights when “it is convenient”. What I am suggesting is that if the State wished to legislate against property rights over the seabed and foreshore, is should have done so in a non-discriminatory way. The Seabed and Foreshore Act extinguished any customary Maori property rights that may have existed over seabed and foreshore land, but left private freehold property rights over the same category of land intact.

    That was discriminatory and racist.

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  127. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    What are “Customary Maori property rights” Toadie? :)

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  128. Other_Andy (2,079 comments) says:

    @leftyliberal

    What is the difference between a “Maori Authority” and a “Maori company” such as, for example, Ngai Tahu?
    Why aren’t the shareholders treated just like shareholders in other companies, or are they?
    Doesn’t the tax rate for dividents start at 28 cents in the dollar?

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  129. Pete George (21,798 comments) says:

    leftyliberal – thanks for that, makes sense. I thought the ‘Maori tax’ claim sounded like nonsense, good to have it explained.

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  130. toad (3,654 comments) says:

    @Jimmy Smits 6:52 pm

    Toad – if John Ansell is a racist, then what are your views on the following: “Maori companies pay 17.5% tax, [while] others pay 28%.”

    No link. I suspect Ansell made it up. If he doesn’t provide any evidence, I can’t be bothered responding.

    I have seen one response here, but have not had time to analyse that.

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  131. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    “I thought the ‘Maori tax’ claim sounded like nonsense”

    You wouldn’t if you decided to start selling pot in Naenae Pete!!! :) :)

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  132. toad (3,654 comments) says:

    @Johnboy 8:26 pm

    What are “Customary Maori property rights” Toadie?

    Before Whitey came here, Johnboy, Maori “owned” or were “guardians of” (as best as it translates) everything in this country under collective iwi, hapu or whanau ownership.

    Te Tiriti o Waitangi affirmed that.

    But then there were land confiscations, dodgy deals, and dodgy laws that served, in contravention of Te Tiriti, to undermine and abrogate the property rights that existed preceding Te Tiriti.

    The Foreshore and Seabed Act is just the most recent of a long line of events that have undermined customary property rights.

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  133. leftyliberal (598 comments) says:

    @Other_Andy – see the IRD link above. Maori authorities can be either trusts or companies legally-speaking. Either way, the same applies: The individuals benefitting from the authority (shareholders or beneficiaries) pay tax on monies obtained from the authority at their normal tax rate. It’s set at 17.5% under the assumption that that is more reflective of the normal tax rate that those receiving income from the authority are normally on, thus reducing compliance costs and the need for end of year tax payments/reductions for those individuals. This appears to be correct based on the numbers (around 85% of Maori that benefit from such a structure are in the 17.5% bracket).

    Again, the link:

    http://taxpolicy.ird.govt.nz/publications/2010-ris-sop-187-gstrm-bill/lower-income-tax-rate-maori-authorities

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  134. Other_Andy (2,079 comments) says:

    @toad

    Thanks for that link.
    Read it very carefully.
    The bottom line is, according to this article, that when you earn $48,000 or less a year you pay only 17.5 % tax on dividends from a “Maori Authority”. For those who earn $48,000 or less a year you pay 28 % tax on dividends from other companies.
    So non Maori on lower incomes are discriminated against when compared to Maori on lower incomes when it comes to paying tax on dividends.
    Tell me if I am wrong.

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  135. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    I seem to remember Toadie that various Whanau, Hapu and Iwi slaughtered each other, without mercy, including the women and children. With the aid of the civilising race of enlightened whitey’s they started to learn that life did not have to be so short and brutal. They later chose to ignore the wise advice and reverted to their evil ways. The might of the whitey dealt to them and as we are a jolly civilised bunch of whitey we thought we should give them a hand up.

    This went a bit to far with the Kirk/Lange/Donald/Clark creatures. Time we got sensible again really! :)

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  136. wat dabney (3,428 comments) says:

    Not by a race, but by particular iwi and hapu.

    There is no moral difference. Anyone who understands the moral objection to racism, rather than simply using “racist” as a schoolyard insult as you do, would know that.

    What I am suggesting is that if the State wished to legislate against property rights over the seabed and foreshore, is should have done so in a non-discriminatory way. The Seabed and Foreshore Act extinguished any customary Maori property rights that may have existed over seabed and foreshore land, but left private freehold property rights over the same category of land intact. That was discriminatory and racist.

    The legislation remove race-based claims on common land and left privately held land – whether owned by Maori or anyone else – alone.

    That is as non-discriminatory as it is possible to get.

    It is the definition of non-discriminatory.

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  137. Other_Andy (2,079 comments) says:

    @leftyliberal

    Thanks for your reply.
    As in my reply to Toad, is the minimum tax rate on dividends 17.5% for ALL dividends or only for “Maori Authority” dividends? It looks like it is 17.5% for “Maori Authority” dividends only.

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  138. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    I also seem to remember that the only rights that Maori had were by conquest and by conquest Queen Victoria’s army extinguished that right. She did in her wisdom offer the natives equivalence with all other British subjects. I am happy with that. I just have a bit of a problem with the freebies Maoris demand. Perhaps you could explain? :)

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  139. toad (3,654 comments) says:

    Other_Andy 8:46 pm

    The conclusion of the post I linked to is:

    The Maori authority rate is set at 17.5% because it more accurately reflects the underlying tax rates paid by the people who are entitled to the income from Maori authorities. And ultimately, when those people who have received distributions or dividends or income from Maori authorities pay income tax themselves, it all gets evened out. It’s as simple as that.

    But evidently, that’s far too complicated for John Ansell. It seems he would far rather distort the truth of the situation in favour of a quick and nasty headline grab. This is a poisonous approach.

    Again, have not had time to analyse in detail, but it seems a reasonable approach to me.

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  140. toad (3,654 comments) says:

    @Johnboy 8:53 pm

    I also seem to remember that the only rights that Maori had were by conquest and by conquest Queen Victoria’s army extinguished that right.

    If Queen Victoria took New Zealand by conquest, what would there have been a Treaty?

    Would have been totally unnecessary in those circumstances. The facts were that Maori had a significant military advantage over colonial troops in 1840 if it came down to war, and Te Tiriti was necessary to the colonists to dissuade Maori from asserting that military advantage.

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  141. MajorBloodnok (361 comments) says:

    Maori had no property rights before the white settlers arrived. Their only land was land that they could defend, and only as long as they could defend it.

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  142. Other_Andy (2,079 comments) says:

    @toad

    “….it all gets evened out. It’s as simple as that.”

    It doesn’t look that simple and it only seems to get all evened out if you earn more than $48.000
    If correct, I think the statements in this article are as disingenuous or as truthful as Ansell’s statements.

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  143. leftyliberal (598 comments) says:

    @Other_Andy: “For those who earn $48,000 or less a year you pay 28 % tax on dividends from other companies.”

    Incorrect. Dividends are not taxed at 28% per-se. Company profits are. If you receive a dividend then that is part of your normal income, and you pay at the same rate as you would for any other income. If you’re on 33% then you pay 5% on your dividend personally, topping up the 28% rate. If a person with total income less than 48k a year receives dividends, then they receive a tax credit (i.e. they can put it against any other tax bills they may have) equivalent to 10.5% of the dividend received (17.5 – 28).

    The idea behind the Maori Authority rate is that, as most of the individuals receiving dividends or payments are earning less than 48k anyway, it’s sensible to tax at the 17.5% rate to save the squaring up of end of year for those individuals.

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  144. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    Nonsense Toadie. It was merely an austerity measure by Wikitoria’s ministers to avoid a budget blowout. If you really believe that the might of the British empire, which was at it’s peak in 1840, was scared shitless of a bunch of bloody natives you are a seriously deluded man. It was a cunning plan to get another red flag on the globe at a cheap rate. Disraeli probably thought it up. :)

    Still keep up the pretence if you wish. I love it when various fatarse, darkskinned, fellows threaten dire response if their greedy little want’s are not satisfied! :)

    The really amazing thing is that our stupid pollies take the pricks seriously instead of just telling them to get stuffed.

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  145. Other_Andy (2,079 comments) says:

    @toad

    “Te Tiriti was necessary to the colonists to dissuade Maori from asserting that military advantage.”

    Is that what they taught you at school?
    The reality is that Maori asked for a treaty for protection from other tribes, ‘foreigners’ (The French) and lawless Europeans.
    The Treaty was mainly to “Protect the Maori from exploitation” by Europeans…….
    Go figure.

    (Page 151-152 The Penquin History of New Zealand by Michael King)

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  146. Other_Andy (2,079 comments) says:

    @leftyliberal

    Thanks again.
    I am not that well versed in tax laws and until I hear a rebuttal of your answer I’ll take your answer as the correct one.

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  147. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    “Is that what they taught you at school?”

    Komsomol OA!! :)

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  148. toad (3,654 comments) says:

    @Other_Andy 9:15 pm

    The Treaty was mainly to “Protect the Maori from exploitation” by Europeans…

    Well, that didn’t work out, did it. So what actually happened?

    “Poor choices” (as John Key would put it) by Maori?

    Or a systematic campaign by colonists to, initially militarily, then legislatively, and later economically, alienate Maori from their economic base (i.e. their land).

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  149. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    “Or a systematic campaign by colonists to, initially militarily” ……….Hang on a minute Toadie.

    Your ethnics were thrashing us, so we created a treaty, now we are beating you????

    Get your facts straight man! :)

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  150. eszett (2,264 comments) says:

    Those featuring at the bottom seem to have one thing in common. They all spend their school years arsing around & accomplishing bugger all then moving on to early parenthood & instilling the same anti education crap into the next generation.

    Funny, nasska, I thought the one thing they had in common was that they were brown. Silly me.

    Insinuating that all or most Maori are lazy and/or dumb and therefore the one and only cause of their predicament, well, that is in itself rather dumb and uneducated. Pretty much Crimps position.

    And still, you admit that the socio and economic indicators for Maori are pretty bad, so where are they privileged?

    On a side note, I had to laugh at Rodney piece in the Herald yesterday:

    The Waitangi Tribunal is our Babylonian priesthood. Its members spend their days poring over a tatty old text seeking guidance for modern-day government.

    Just imagine him writing the same thing about the supreme court in the US:

    The Supreme Court is our Babylonian priesthood. Its members spend their days poring over a tatty old text seeking guidance for modern-day government.

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  151. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    He wouldn’t dare write that about the Jews or the Vatican or the Muslims either I suspect!

    But it would be just as true if he did! :)

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  152. Paul Williams (867 comments) says:

    I challenge every New Zealand media outlet to poll their readers on whether they support a New Zealand without any form of state racial favouritism.

    A democracy worthy of the name does what a majority of its people want – so let’s find out if the people want a Colourblind State or not.

    Any media outlet which is not prepared to so poll its readers can be exposed as part of the Treatygate scandal.

    I challenge you to grow up and leave the sandpit… John, some of us have moved beyond the lynch mob, admittedly not many ’round here. I’m starting to think you’re a parody.

    I reckon you should put your name on the ballot paper and stop standing behind others. Up for it John? I really doubt it.

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  153. toad (3,654 comments) says:

    @Johnboy 9:41 pm

    “Or a systematic campaign by colonists to, initially militarily” ……….Hang on a minute Toadie. Your ethnics were thrashing us, so we created a treaty, now we are beating you????

    I know there is not much point debating you JB, but it had the effect of a holding plan, to temporarily appease Maori while the colonial forces built their strength to that which would enable them to successfully wage war.

    BTW, who the fuck do you think initiated the Land Wars?

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  154. wat dabney (3,428 comments) says:

    BTW, who the fuck do you think initiated the Land Wars?

    You meanMaori tribes lived in peaceful coexistence before Europeans arrived?

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  155. Other_Andy (2,079 comments) says:

    @toad

    “Well, that didn’t work out, did it.”

    Yes, most of the time it did.
    Don’t believe all the stories you hear from the antagonists, professional claim chasers and revisionists.
    Read Michael King.

    “Or a systematic campaign by colonists to, initially militarily, then legislatively, and later economically, alienate Maori from their economic base (i.e. their land).”

    That’s the revisionist story. The reality is different and not as black and white as the revisionists (and you) make it out to be. All this happened less than 180 years ago. There are countless (Original!) witness reports from that time that paint a very different and far more accurate story.

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  156. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    wat – I know that Te Rauparaha was a vegan artist who ran an inter-tribal care group. Well that’s what I was taught at school, so it must be true :)

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  157. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    “BTW, who the fuck do you think initiated the Land Wars?”

    How about some greedy settlers with a lot of help from kupapa who wanted to settle some old scores?

    Nothing has changed much eh? :)

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  158. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    He built little nursery’s for his enemies kids too kk and ate them when they got big enough! :)

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  159. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    Doesn’t take much to get a war started eh? :) :)

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  160. Other_Andy (2,079 comments) says:

    @toad

    Read the Penguin History Of New Zealand by Michael King
    An excellent read.
    It also lists countless other good books and sources.

    http://www.penguin.co.nz/afa.asp?idWebPage=30233&ID=1788742&SID=858711552

    His other books on New Zealand history are also well worth a read.
    All meticulously researched and referenced.

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  161. toad (3,654 comments) says:

    Johnboy 10:02 pm

    How about some greedy settlers with a lot of help from kupapa

    I would suggest we Whitey shouldn’t use the word “kupapa” here (or anywhere). It could get us into big trouble. It is not our place to judge how Maori responded to the military and legislative onslaught against them in the second half of the 19th century.

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  162. wat dabney (3,428 comments) says:

    Toad’s virulently racist viewpoint has it that inter-tribal warfare is somehow morally different to the situation where one of the groups of combatants happens to be white.

    It isn’t.

    White-on-brown violence is morally no different to brown-on-brown violence, brown-on-white violence or white-on-white violence.

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  163. toad (3,654 comments) says:

    Other_Andy 10:08 pm

    Read the Penguin History Of New Zealand by Michael King

    Sadly, Michael King died in a car crash several years ago and is unable to participate in this discussion. I knew him personally, and I doubt he would support most of your assertions if he were here.

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  164. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    Kupapa means “Friendly” as in friendly to the soldiers you fuckwit Toadie!

    So much for your identifying with the downtrodden! :)

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  165. toad (3,654 comments) says:

    wat dabney 10:13 pm

    The difference is that there was a Treaty between the British Crown and most Rangatira in behalf of their iwi or hapu.

    Sure, there was extensive warfare between iwi before Te Tiriti, but no agreement to a peaceful coexistence or to sovereignty and governance roles or to property rights that were subsequently breached, as there was with between the Crown and the Rangatira who signed Te Tiriti.

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  166. Other_Andy (2,079 comments) says:

    @toad

    You can’t have known him that well.
    Read his book(s).
    You might learn something.

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  167. Paul Williams (867 comments) says:

    This is an amazing thread. A perfect example of why we started kiwiblogblog. At the time we thought, wrongly, the views here represented David’s. They don’t. I still think David could exercise a bit more moderation over this community but I entirely accept he is a far more sophisticated, albeit partisan, operator. I have now come to realise the Reds and the Ansells here are the horrible exception to NZ society and tragically need this cesspit to beta-test their shallow notions.

    This thread is a comedy. It’s the same ridiculous circle jerk of 6 or more years ago. I’m grateful that I am now an occasional an observer. I suspect any moment now David Garrett will show up. Imagine that lineup. Garrett, Ansell and Crimp. Even Lhaws and Rankin know better.

    Night all (oh and Red, was that a smarmy sophisticate put down, you bet mate, you bet).

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  168. toad (3,654 comments) says:

    @Johnboy 10:14 pm

    You have just proved my point. Night, Johnboy!

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  169. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    For dumb bastards like Toadie who have trouble with their Kaupapa/Kupapa! :)

    . (verb) to lie flat, stoop, go stealthily, neutral in a quarrel, collaborate.
    Kūpapa ana rātou, ā, whati haere ana ki roto ki te huru (TP 1/2/1902:4). / They stooped down and fled into the undergrowth.
    2. (verb) to be neutral in a quarrel, collaborate.
    3. (noun) collaborator, ally – a term applied to Māori who side with Pākehā opposition or the Government.
    Ka whakatika atu a Te Whitimoa me ngā hōia Pākehā, me te rau kotahi o Te Arawa, me ngā kūpapa kotahi rau e whā tekau, ko Te Keepa te meiha o aua kūpapa (TWM 22/4/1869). / Whitmore and the Pākehā soldiers set off with one hundred Te Arawa and one hundred and forty allies led by Te Keepa who was the major of those collaborators.

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  170. MH (558 comments) says:

    What military advantage Maori had over the Brit settlers had quickly dissipated by the late 1850′s. By 1840 inter necine warfare had decimated native population. Approx 150-200,000 at the turn of the century,then the Musket wars reduced that down to less than 50,000. Disease undoubtedly paid a part in the decline but the bullet was quicker and slicker.What happened to the odd 100,000 ? They couldn’t sustain forces in the field and were unable as good fighters as they were to provide supplies and relied on retreating from so called established positions. They were worn out and most fought for the Brits anyway against the big tribes. The best breeding males were on the decline. The treaty was signed by most tribes because they had a gutsful of the slaughter. Go read the Musket Wars by Crosby or Guns and Utu by Wright. You won’t find much pre Treaty being taught in schools because the Tribes don’t like being reminded. All grievances apparently only started after 1840? But they are all lumped under this farce of a reconciliation process. We are all paying for the sins of greedy pre 1840 Maori and the rule that said those lands held by the conquer. were deemed to be in their ownership as at 1840.How unjust is that. the day Maori tribes seek redress from each other….now that will be a miracle/sign of maturity and responsibility.

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  171. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    The Toads of this world spend their time wallowing through the turgid bogs of their little minds catching a fly here and there but in the end all they will be remembered for is their plaintive little croak. :)

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  172. wat dabney (3,428 comments) says:

    Sure, there was extensive warfare between iwi before Te Tiriti, but no agreement to a peaceful coexistence or to sovereignty and governance roles or to property rights that were subsequently breached, as there was with between the Crown and the Rangatira who signed Te Tiriti.

    So continual violence, slave-raiding and warfare is preferable to an imperfectly observed treaty which has resulted in present day Maori being some of the richest people in the World.

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  173. Johnboy (13,342 comments) says:

    Your wasting your time wat.

    Toadie surrendered a while ago in the face of overwhelming logic, not to mention a tad of derision and his poor grasp of the indigenous language despite his self proclaimed connections to the Tiriti partners.

    However WATCH THIS SPACE he will return! :)

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  174. John Ansell (861 comments) says:

    Paul Williams: we will see who are the odd ones out.

    Why are you so hostile to the concept of a democratic poll?

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  175. John Ansell (861 comments) says:

    Are you also hostile to my idea of polling Maori to see if they want a Colourblind State?

    I am optimistic that the Achiever Maori are more numerous than the Grievers, just as there were more loyalist tribes in the 1860s than rebels.

    Did you know that?

    Today’s Grievers share the same mentality as those rebel chiefs, who were warned by the Governors that rebellion against the Queen (who they had pledged to be subject to in the Treaty) would result in confiscation of their lands.

    Of course they went ahead with their plans to drive the Pakeha into the sea, were repelled, and duly lost their lands.

    To blub about that afterwards strikes me as a bit rich, considering what they would have done to the Pakeha had they won.

    Wiremu Tamihana, for example, made it clear to the Governor that if his people won the war there would not be a man, woman and child left alive in Auckland, in keeping with Maori custom.

    What would you do in the face of that provocation?

    These are the sorts of things that the revisionist historians fail to mention, but which the public are about to find out.

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  176. Manolo (12,617 comments) says:

    Sure, there was extensive warfare between iwi before Te Tiriti,..

    A euphemism and polite way of putting it, to say the least. They actually killed, enslaved, maimed and ate each other with joy.

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  177. Paul Williams (867 comments) says:

    Why are you so hostile to the concept of a democratic poll?

    Not at all hostile John, I encourage you to stand for election. You, personally.

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  178. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    I think calling such tactics racist is misleading, because it promotes the idea that the aim of the strategy is to discuss race-based politics or perhaps even push a skewed version of history under the guise of achieving ‘balance’.

    I’m speaking as a ‘Nu-Zealander’ I’ve been here about eight years this time, and broadly speaking feel that Maori have a case under the Treaty of Waitangi. I’m also aware that some people exploit its emotional aspects for self-aggrandisement. But as we see, this is not limited to Maori of course. I mention this because I wouldn’t know John Ansell from Adam, so have no pre-conceived bias against him, only my impressions from what I just read from him.

    When I read John’s post above, I’m reminded of the mentality of those who were active in Sinn Fein, Al Quaida, to name a couple – it reeks of a similar blithe self-belief that their ’cause’ is ‘just’. My point being that a series of presentations designed to inspire hatred is seems more like something that a terrorist might consider reasonable. This is beyond racism – it raises serious questions about Mr. Ansell’s longer-term intentions. Yes, coming from overseas, I’ve seen it all before, from South Africa to Ulster, in every Reverend Tin-pot Paisley that likes to spout emotive claptrap to foment ethnic conflict.

    So in short, here, I’m accusing John Ansell not of being a voice of reason, seeking to redress a wrong, but rather of being a proto-terrorist. Not the bomb-throwing type, you understand, but the plump, safe Imam type who would applaud and say “I told you so” if someone else threw a bomb in the name of his perverted cause.

    Would you care to dignify my accusation with a response, John?

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  179. Tom Barker (92 comments) says:

    Memo to John Ansell, from a fellow PR wizard:
    What’s the name of that energetic neo-Nazi chap who was temporarily prominent in the anti-MMP campaign last year? He’d love this latest project of your, John, and you definitely need to to enlist him as another spokesperson for it. I’m entirely serious here. Given the public profile of yourself and Louis Crimp, this Nazi guy can only enhance your credentials.

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  180. toad (3,654 comments) says:

    @ Tom Barker 7:24 am

    Alex Fogerty:

    http://discardedlies.com/entry/?4592

    A post from Fogerty in April 2005, which he confirmed to the Nelson Mail that he wrote, reads: “I’d love to get rid of all Jews, blacks, gypsies, retards and social degenerates, I would love to have genetic cleansing.”

    His message added that genetic cleansing did not mean killing anyone, just forcibly removing them from a country.

    Mr Fogerty said he had made some comments on the internet he now regretted.

    Fight Dem Back had taken these comments, including the one on genetic cleansing and another where he congratulated Australian groups for the increasing attacks on Jews, out of context, he said.

    The comments were made in private and freedom of speech meant he could make them, he said.

    He was not racist and had talked to “every ethnic group”, but did not agree with New Zealand’s immigration policy, and thought some of the Nazis’ ideas were good

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  181. toad (3,654 comments) says:

    @wat dabney 11:03 pm

    So people in civilised Western nations lived in blissful peace and harmony and slavery among them was unknown in the 18th and 19th centuries. Oh, wait…

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  182. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    Toad…
    So people in civilised Western nations lived in blissful peace

    Read what Peter Cresswell said in his articles that I have posted links to in my previous messages.

    Western nations didn’t become civilized since the beginning of Adam & Eve. What the Maori went thru before the Europeans arrived here, were exactly the same brutality & barbaric wars that the Europeans themselves experienced before the Age of Enlightenment. Every human society experienced that.

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  183. big bruv (12,323 comments) says:

    Toad

    Why are you so afraid of a rational discussion re the treaty?

    I suspect it is because you (and that idiot Delahunty) have a massive guilt complex for having been born white. What is it with the Greens?, I have never seen so many wannabe Maori’s in my life.

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  184. my 2 cents (1,091 comments) says:

    liberal white guilt.
    in acedemia, social policy and media.

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  185. Unity (6 comments) says:

    I have just come into this conversation and I am totally stunned by the total ignorance out there as to what is actually going on. Instead of denigrating people and throwing insults how about those who obviously are in oblivion, do some research for themselves. Googling ‘Papers Past’ would be a good start and you can read factual reports from the actual times as to what really happened. There are numerous books written in those times also and now there are quite a number of books coming onto the market which have been meticulously researched. However one has to be careful as there are also revisionist historians who are sanitising our history to coincide with what is acceptable to the Waitangi Tribunal. If they are paid by the Government then they will be suspect. John Robinson who used to work for the Waitangi Tribunal and had to change his research if he wanted to be paid, no longer works for them and has now written two excellent books – ‘The Corruption of New Zealand Democracy, A Treaty Overview’ and ‘When two cultures meet, the New Zealand experience’. Humour me and read them!! You will learn a lot.

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  186. Paul Williams (867 comments) says:

    John, if you reread your post at 11.37pm, do you not realise how incredibly hypocritical you’re being? If there’s any “griever around here, you’re certainly amongst them.

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  187. Trina (2 comments) says:

    CANON STOWELL AND THE NEW ZEALAND SETTLERS.
    Nelson Examiner and New Zealand Chronicle, Volume XXI, Issue 76, 6 September 1862, Page 4

    The following letter was addressed by Lieutenant-Colonel Muter, of the 60th Rifles, to the Editor of the Manx Sun :-

    Sir – As a Douglas man may I claim to reply to a speech of the Rev. Canon Stowell, of Manchester, reported in your columns of the 2nd of November last, as being delivered to the Douglas Branch of the Isle of Man Auxiliary to the Church Missionary Society.

    Had the subject been of less importance I would not have recalled to the recollection of your readers words spoken so many months ago, I dare say spoken vaguely, without intention of insult and misrepresentation, and, perhaps, with no idea that they would travel beyond the select few who heard them.

    Yet this speech has been copied into the New Zealand papers, and has been denounced by Bishop Selwyn, the great leader of missionary enterprise in the Pacific, from the pulpit as untrue.

    Mr. Stowell declares New Zealand “to be the brightest gem in the diadem of the society, and a beautiful specimen of the work of Christ in these latter days.”

    Before proceeding further he thinks it necessary to reconcile this with the rebellion of the natives against our Queen, the cold-blooded murders of peaceful colonists, and the utter destruction of one of the finest settlements in the colony, and thus he does it:-

    Who has brought this trouble on New Zealand ? was it not the grasping, unfair, and oppressive emigrants ?

    How did the civilized settlers treat the natives?

    Why, in the way that hunters treat wild animals, they hewed them up and cut them down to make way for the boasted civilization.

    Alas! alas! that British civilization should so far forget itself as to allow the aborigines to be cut down and treated like dogs.

    It is to be deplored, however, that the dark pages of colonization will little bear to be inspected.

    It should be remembered that New Zealand is not a conquered country, and we have no right to tread it down with the heel of oppression, as if it had been won by the sword.

    On the contrary, it was won by the sword of the Spirit ; it was Christianity that brought New Zealand under the sceptre of England’s Queen, and Christian England ought to see that the natives have fair play.

    The emigrants, in many cases the offscouring and vagabonds of our own country, ought not to be allowed to take advantage of the ignorance of the natives, and oppress them as they have done, to a great extent pillaging their lands from them, and then when the natives turn round to defend themselves they are cried out against as rebels and savages, and we are called upon to cut them down.

    Having reached the grade of Lieutenant – Colonel in the army, as you may suppose, I have travelled far and wide over our colonial empire, and over the scenes of missionary labour in India and China, and I cannot but deeply regret to see a dignitary of the Church of England commit himself and his cause by such a perversion of facts.

    Those who have not visited New Zealand cannot form a conception of the injustice and cruelty of these remarks.

    Is it thus these unfortunate people are to be represented to their countrymen after all they have suffered, and with a tempest of disaster impending?

    Has Mr. Stowell’s study of the dark pages of colonization taught him so little?

    But plausible theories in Exeter Hall, and in quiet rooms in Douglas, break down before stubborn realities.

    Those who best know men in a low state of civilization know this truth, that the more conceded to their demands, the more insolent and unreasonable they become.

    Those who know New Zealand best know that our policy in that country has been one continued concession.

    The horror of a New Zealand war has never been absent from the minds of the rulers ; it has tinged every act of their policy.

    No one knows this better than the Maori.

    Seeing that we gave to the pressure, they have advanced; and we have backed and backed before the encroaching savage, till we now stand on the edge of the precipice, where to back further is destruction.

    The Anglo Saxon has endured from the Maori what he has never before submitted to, save from the Norman Conqueror.

    From the massacre of Wairau to the massacre at Taranaki, the colonists have submitted to deeds the remembrance of which makes their blood boil with indignation, and the contempt held for them by the savage grows with the patience of the settler.

    Had Mr. Stowell to deal with these men, he would find that the right urged by Rob Roy is that planted in their hearts, as it underlies all human right, “that he should take who has the power, and he should keep who can.”

    The only hope now left to us of averting the great war, the war not between the soldiers and the natives, but the far more dreadful one, between the Maori and the settlers, is in the intelligence of the former, who may see that it is impossible for the latter to retire further, that they stand on the brink of the chasm, and that any further pressure would lead to a death grapple.

    It is of men thus situated that Mr. Stowell has made these remarks ; but, sir, you may depend upon this, that if the struggle comes, the Maori is lost ; it is he that will go down the precipice, not we, for the instinct of the nation is true ; and if the war must come, which every means under heaven will have been tried to avert, then the native race is doomed, and whatever may be the tale told by the dark pages of colonization, at any rate our race will emerge from this struggle with a clear conscience.

    If the patience and Christian endurance of the settlers can avert this war, they are entitled to the sympathy and support of their countrymen at home, if not, they are more entitled to that sympathy and support than were the English in India during the mutiny.

    The colonists of New Zealand may well pass with contempt such epithets as “offscouring” and “vagabond,” because as a section of society they believe that they stand the highest in the world.

    My impression is, that they are correct in this opinion.

    First, because the emigration from Europe to the country has been the most carefully conducted, and the most select ever despatched from one country to another.

    Second, because it requires something energetic and buoyant to float the antipodes.

    Third, because the tendency of a prosperous colony is to raise and elevate the individual, to give him a hopeful future and scope for action.

    For these reasons I say that if you picked one hundred thousand people at random in England, and compared them with the colonists of New Zealand, you would find the colonists, both socially and morally, higher in the scale.

    I have twice visited New Zealand, and my observations are strongly in favour of this supposition.

    When the Maori will have become a matter of history, when the only trace left of them will be in some swarthy cheeks of the far-off descendants of the settlers, New Zealaud will still be a bright gem in the diadem of the Church, but this will be due to the English, and not to the Maori race.

    Every effort of the true missionary is to bring them together, not to widen the breach.

    Amalgamation is the only chance for this decaying race.

    Words then tending to a broader separation are more injurious to those he intends to benefit than the reverend canon can readily believe.
    Your obedient servant,
    D. D. M.

    Sourced from the National Library of New Zealand
    http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=NENZC18620906.2.20&cl=search&srpos=29&e=——-10–21—-0Massacre+Maori+Settler–

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