Half of those with arrest warrants on a benefit
September 5th, 2012 at 3:05 pm by David FarrarPaula Bennett has announced:
People with outstanding arrest warrants will no longer receive a benefit while evading Police says Social Development Minister Paula Bennett.
“Of the approximately 15,000 people with a current arrest warrant, around 8,200 are on benefits,” says Mrs Bennett.
“If someone has an unresolved arrest warrant we will stop their benefit until they do the right thing and come forward to the authorities.”
I’m a bit amazed that up until now you could be on the run from Police, and indefinitely keep claiming a benefit!
Related posts:
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- Another case of benefit fraud
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- Drug testing for job seekers
September 5th, 2012 at 3:15 pm
Is this being applied to Working for Families too?
Is this being applied to superannuation too?
Is this being applied to those receiving state health care too?
Is this being applied to those receiving state education too?
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 3:17 pm
Why should it be?
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 3:19 pm
Probably one of those “silo mentality” issues where Govt Departments don’t think to share information (or feel constrained by privacy concerns). The US provides a glaring example with 10 million people in the country illegally, but apparently police who arrest people on a given crime can’t check their residency status.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 3:19 pm
Criminals exploiting and milking the system, while taxpayers maintain the scum with our taxes.
Vote:About time to stop this corrupt practice.
September 5th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
I can’t believe this has been the case.
Why are we arguing gay marriage when issues like this exist?
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 3:25 pm
Those figures also say something about the people on “benefits” crime and social welfare.
Welfare is no longer a safety net for hard times ,it’s clearly part of a lifestyle,and not a flash one.
The Jeremy Kyle Show on an almost national scale.(to quote Inspector Gadget)
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 3:28 pm
I was surprised that this wasn’t the case but I do tend to think No Right Turn http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/ has a good point on timing.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 3:36 pm
15,000 must be given the benefit of/from the doubters
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 3:37 pm
vto:
You protest too much. Are you one of the 8,200?
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 3:41 pm
“Why should it be?”
Because WFF and NZ Super are benefits too.
NZ Super isn’t something that you pay into and create a fund with your own money. It’s a benefit paid out of current taxation.
Has Paula really been in the job for four years and only just noticed this ?
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 3:41 pm
Hey Anne Tolley, what the fuck are you doing ticketing people for 10 k over the speed limit when there are 15000 outstanding arrest warrants?
Are you running a Police Dept or a retirement scheme for dopey little blue light fascists and petty tyrants?
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 3:53 pm
vto
An excellent point indeed. Why should anyone on the run from the state be a beneficiary of it’s fiscal largesse?
And almost on point, re the publicity about returning NZers copping their unpaid fines at the airport. Why do we let anyone out of the country who has an unpaid fine, or who has not made acceptable arrangements to ensure the continued repayment of student loans, or who is in receipt of a benefit without W&I approval of the travel?
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
I heard that dickhead John Tamihere going on Radio Live about how this was a really terrible thing.
Vote:‘Boohoo, a beneficiary with have outstanding fines will lose the benefit because they have a outstanding arrest warrant and won’t be able to feed their family’ he said.
Here’s a crazy idea. Turn yourself in then.
September 5th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
@ emmess,
Exactly right. It seems a reasonable part of the social contract that people on welfare can’t expect the state to keep providing it if they are avoiding their legal obligations to attend court.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 4:02 pm
There are 300 to 400 road deaths per year. There are 40 to 60 murders a year.
But tell me more about how highway policing is all just naked revenue gathering. That never gets old.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
In case most of you eggs have forgotten – we are not subjects of the state. The state can get fucked. In fact, I recommend everyone who agrees with this policy should allow all those the subject of Bennett’s evilness be allowed to completely opt out of the state system. No obligation of any sort whatsoever. Sounds good to me.
No more dole. No more social contract. You can all go fuck yourself. Every man for himself. See you in a dark alley sometime soon …. you dumb fucks
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 4:16 pm
Dear vto,
Next time I catch you using one of my roads, Im going to shoot you. You know, no more social contract and all.
Signed,
A Taxpayer.
PS. Are you REALLY that fucking stupid?
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 4:20 pm
vto is using ye olde highway robbery tactic.
If the taxpayer (the state) is not nice to the criminal underclass,they will come and get you……..
In other words pay up you working wankers or we’ll burn your house down,or words to that effect.Blackmail.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 4:21 pm
doesn’t take much to expose the dumbfucks here does it
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 4:22 pm
“doesn’t take much to expose the dumbfucks here does it”
Irony, much?
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 4:34 pm
That is the point isn’t it? They have opted out.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 4:42 pm
No it doesn’t. On show at 3.15pm / 4.09pm / 4.21pm.
Have a nice day.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 4:48 pm
I agree with the policy sentiment but NOT the procedure.
If a Court orders it as part of a Court issued arrest warrant, most certainly “Yes”.
Administratively, NO.
It seems that administrative fiat is now appropriate in NZ. But is it?
Is that not a good way down a greasy, slipperly slope to a totalitarian society?
Possibly, althlough many will argue no.
So am I grumpy? Yes.
Why? Because the same standard is NOT applied by the Executive on bull shit Maori water ownership/rights claimants filching millions of taxpayer dollars to advance specious claims, thereby causing increased Government borrowing.
Same thing, or worse???
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 5:02 pm
I recall one occasion a school caretaker was attacked. The boys in blue knew who it was, so they stopped his benifit. He payed a visit to the local Welfare office, and got collected by them there.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 5:14 pm
“doesn’t take much to expose the dumbfucks here does it”
oh the irony hurts
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 5:22 pm
Why does shit like this not happen normally; why does it take the only politician who has balls to come up with this! You take drugs = no benefit! You have outstanding fine or warrant = no benefit! Why is this so hard!
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 5:32 pm
because now, those crims who have their benefits cut will return to crime to feed themselves.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 5:47 pm
Are there checks to ensure
Vote:The people concerned know that there is an arrest warrant for them?
The person receiving the benefit is the same person with the arrest warrant and not just someone with a similar name
September 5th, 2012 at 5:49 pm
Lee C
“They will return to crime…….” Return? Who said they’d given up?
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 6:03 pm
No. There’s no checks to ensure it’s not a similar name [strong sarcasm]. WTF?! Plus they’ll find out when they don’t get their benefit! Arrest warrants aren’t things that we develop for no reason (like rashes) – you actually have to commit a crime to get one.
You’ve just got to find something wrong with this don’t you?
Yes, starvation is the most common motive behind crime in NZ. That’s why people rape – because they can’t afford a MacAttack. (Also strong sarcasm.)
You’ve never actually met a criminal have you? They’re arrogant, they get every entitlement they’re “entitled” to and more. They’re nasty and they only care about themselves – that’s why they commit crime – because they don’t consider how traumatic it is to have your windows forced, and have someone rifle through your house before stealing family heirlooms.
When driving home today I heard on the radio that dickhead Damien Christie. He was attacking this plan too – because it would affect people who moved flats and just had parking fines.
Seriously, it is disgusting that Labour and National have both let wanted crims have their benefits for so long already!
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 6:09 pm
there’s so many security cameras now,it just ain’t easy anymore to find a dark alley,although I warrant you, the queues are a good give away esp on a Wednesday.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 6:14 pm
That low, huh? I thought it would be a greater proportion than that.
By the way, I think it is a fantastic policy. Should have been implemented years ago.
In my experience, 98% of people subject of a WTA are fully aware of it. Of those who weren’t, many at some point were aware of it but then forgot about it. Often Corrections will be the most likely organisation to apply for a warrant in lieu of service, which means that almost all of those people should be aware that there will be charges coming for not complying with a sentence.
Well, that does happen, but not very often. The level of incidence is so low, in my opinion, as to be able to be discounted.
Gee, if you believe this then I have a good sized bridge in Auckland to sell you. In my experience there is very little crime out of necessity, especially the necessity to feed oneself or one’s dependants. Very, very little. On the other hands, there are quite a number of people receiving a benefit who continue a life of crime quite happily.
To be honest, I don’t believe this. It could be an error in relaying the story, however, which would make it more plausible.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 6:17 pm
Well said, Sir!!!
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 6:18 pm
What used to happen was the police would in form the dole office that such and such was not residing at the address he supplied for his benefit therefore in breach of his benefit conditions, the beneficary would then have to go into an office and supply them with a new address to get it started again which would give the police some help in locating them.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 6:28 pm
“Hey Anne Tolley, what the fuck are you doing ticketing people for 10 k over the speed limit when there are 15000 outstanding arrest warrants?”
Sounds like somebody got a speeding ticket.
You do the crime you do the time (or pay the fine), I thought you support getting tough on crime Bedwetter?
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 6:31 pm
Redbaiter. What cops mostly do, is conduct an endless merry-go-round of running after idiot teens committing petty crimes they never get punished for, domestic violence and so on and so on and all the mountains of paperwork that goes with it. Who would be a cop? I would give all of them a 25% pay rise if NZ wasn’t so good at hosing money down the toilet
If someone wants to go under the radar in NZ they can, it’s a needle in a haystack. Remember the smelly German hippie that hid out in the roof of a West Coast church for about 7 years? I do. Needless to say if you can get home to the East Coast or the Far North they close ranks and you’re invisible.
Inky there are any number of agencies who run around after these people. Go to some of the shitter streets in your town / city and you will see letter boxes rammed with overdue power bills, Baycorp final demands, and letters from the courts. They just move on when the heat gets too hot, and say ‘but nobody told me!’
The only thing I can’t believe is that Bennet’s announcement isn’t law already. Personally, I think if you have say two or more criminal convictions you’ve had your chance, you are an enemy of society and therefore you can get fucked if you want free health care or anything else provided by me including an unemployment benefit. Or a library card.
I heard John Tamihere too, any respect I had for him is now gone. What a clown. So what bro should we just not worry about it?
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 6:33 pm
Smithy likes it cos it brings in more “clients”.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 7:00 pm
That sounds more like it.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 7:28 pm
Offer them incentives to undertake further education and training. This is the way to break out of the poverty and crime cycle.
Judges can give lighter sentences to criminals who prove they are changing their ways.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 7:32 pm
Good work
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 7:32 pm
Right on cue, when the government is in trouble, along comes Paula with a distraction tactic involving beneficiaries again!!
Having said that, I’m in total agreement with this policy and I’m amazed this wasn’t done a long time ago.
Ok, distraction over – now back to the problem of asset sales and Maori water rights …
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 7:46 pm
This already happens. The follow through rate for the crims isn’t that outstanding, however.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 7:50 pm
F E Smith – They have to make decision – contributing members of society or not.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 7:51 pm
50% of warrants being beneficiaries is a very high % but the vast bulk of people being charged with crimes are beneficiaries. Incentivisng people to clear a warrant is probably a good thing because at least it avoids the knock in the night. Most cases will involve a night in the cells and the warrant is cleared. In many cases they can simply front up to the Court and clear the warrant through a registrar and appear on a new date. This is good policy.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 7:55 pm
Eh?
EDIT: Oh, do you mean that the crims have to decide? For many that is easy: they decide no.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 7:58 pm
Yes, the crims. Do they want a chance or not. Their call, but no State money, education and retraining if they say no.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 8:11 pm
Does no State money include no benefits?
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 8:14 pm
Careful, you are in danger of sounding like you are right-of-centre…
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 8:17 pm
I’m not Right of Centre, but you have to decide if you want to be a contributing member of society or not. I think that’s fair. If you do, it’s off to work, further education or re-training. In return you get a decent sum to live on.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 8:17 pm
FES – how much if any effect will removing benefits be likely to have on offending of individuals?
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 8:23 pm
All but the most hard core of lefty slowly ease to the right even MM was getting pulled towards the centre he even agreed with both me and DG on the same day
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 8:27 pm
Whatever – you Tories want to see beneficiaries stay in a separate class. I am suggesting retraining and further education to break through class barriers.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 8:30 pm
If someone wants to go under the radar in NZ they can, it’s a needle in a haystack. Remember the smelly German hippie that hid out in the roof of a West Coast church for about 7 years? I do
Yeah, I remember that son of a bitch, and get this, he moved from the roof to living in a van parked beside the swimming pool on the local area schools property.
The school forced him to leave and the human rights commission ordered them to pay him $10 000 for “hurt feelings”.
I shit you not:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7538726/School-to-pay-10-000-for-hurt
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 8:30 pm
I’m just saying what it reads like!
Oh, take their benefit off them and they will scream! I expect it to be quite effective, to be honest.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 8:33 pm
No, no, you misunderstand: we agree with you!! Or, more accurately, you agree with us. This is what being right wing is all about- provision of an equal opportunity to all to better themselves. What we are not about is ensuring equality of outcome; that we leave up to the individual.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 8:34 pm
FES – I think going to work or a course will be good, not bad.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 8:39 pm
It could be, but it depends on intent. Some people go on courses and apply for jobs to maintain their lifestyle on a benefit. They go through the motions doing the bare minimum required. Proportional to all on benefits they’re a smallish minority but there’s a few of them.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 8:42 pm
And you will get no argument from me on that point! The problem is that the clientele aren’t always so keen. Yes, they will agree to it to get a lighter sentence, but then they sleep in, miss the bus, can’t get to the course, have childcare issues, have a fight with their partner, get kicked out of their flat because they haven’t paid the rent, don’t like hte attitude of the course leader (admittedly that can be a real issue), got bored and left, etc, etc.
I’ve heard most of the excuses as to why a client did not complete (or even begin) the course that they swore to the judge was the key to getting them out of this cycle of offending.
It is a bit like alcoholism: if the alcoholic isn’t willing to admit that there is a problem then there isn’t really much point in trying to assist them because they will relapse as soon as the strictures are taken off them. In the same way, the crim who agrees to do a course must actually want to succeed in the course, rather than simply succeed in getting a reduced sentence, or else they will almost always abscond.
It is really sad, and often very frustrating, seeing a client that you fought tooth and nail for to get a sentence that allowed them to try to address their issues or make something of themselves just throw it away. Unfortunately it happens a lot more often than I care to think about. It is why judges are quite rightly sceptical of proposals.
I still believe, as you seem to, that we should continue to try, however.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 8:44 pm
I don’t think so, with unemployment high and a growing underclass you Tories can keep the ‘lower classes’ away from the leafy suburbs.
I am trying to create a class-less society through education and training.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 8:48 pm
Why do you think that we want to keep them away? That doesn’t make sense. We of the right are more than happy to have people elevate themselves through education, training, and hard work.
Of course, when people do that they tend to stop voting for Labour…
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 8:50 pm
Lee C said:
And if we had decent gun laws, they would be getting a dose of lead poisoning if their crime infringed on my rights to live my life in any way.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 8:51 pm
When you’ve finished your education and training let me know if you still think it’s possible.
The only way of having a classless society is for each member of society to disregard class (not the learning kind).
If anyone is bloody determined to be as good as they can make themselves and they ignore pigeonholing then they are likely to succeed.
Anyone convinced they are in a downtrodden class will likely remain that way no matter what someone else dishes up to them.
It’s mostly about attitude – and a bit of luck. The opportunities are there.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 8:52 pm
Fortunately we don’t have gun laws that give ‘mister nui’ nutcases a license to kill.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 8:52 pm
I have never thought of this. Perhaps when they start going hungry they will come forward. Certainly in some cases the family will suffer. Then perhaps wives and other family members will hand over the offender.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 8:54 pm
haminda are you really as naive as you make out the poor pray not on the rich ,we can afford to avoid them its the poor that bear the brunt of offending
Vote:As to education we have arguable the best and most universal education system in the world the thing holding the poor back most is not society its their own culture I have close friends and family that are involved at the coal face and the one recurring theme is we could Help these kids yet the family…..
September 5th, 2012 at 8:54 pm
It is a good point -I want a class-less society while you Tories want the poor put in their place.
You consider brainy poor people as a threat.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 8:54 pm
Hamnida
“I am trying to create a class-less society through education and training.”
Good for you, knock yourself out.
But please, keep the scum in their own neighbourhoods, there is a reason we like to live in our leafy suburbs.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 8:59 pm
Whatever – you Tories want to see beneficiaries stay in a separate class. I am suggesting retraining and further education to break through class barriers.
What a load of crap.
Probably typed from some nice cozy suburb well away from the “noble poor”.
Well from my perspective (living amongst it) it is a very different story, people like you and your silly ideas about “retraining” only ever enable abuse and career welfare.
The individuals with outstanding arrest warrants (like my previous neighbors ‘out the back’) are often beyond help, they jump from program to program taking the state for suckers.
They destroy the community around them, put other residents kids lives in danger, and lower the tone of entire residential blocks. These particular individuals were dealing in scrap (most of it stolen) and had quite a nice little cash business going (on top of their $750 per week from the state).
They trashed the house, left rubbish all over the property, and left 3 dogs in the house for a week (feeding them through a broken window) to destroy the carpet and anything else within reach. After they were gone, my wife and I did everything possible to buy the house to stop the next pack of degenerates moving in. We got the house for 30g because it was so badly damaged. They hadn’t paid rent for 3 months before moving out and left the dogs in the house because they were pissed off that the landlord wanted her money. She never got it.
You may say this is a one off case and I will tell you it bloody well isn’t, this was the third set of tenants just like that in as little as 4 years.
They exist because the state allows them to exist, they are a complete construct of our welfare system. This isn’t about oppressing the “under class” this is about displacing bad behavior which is an entirely different thing.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 9:02 pm
DPF: I’m a bit amazed that up until now you could be on the run from Police, and indefinitely keep claiming a benefit!
Welcome to the government. Where is the Green/Labour member’s bill to stop this from happening?
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 9:08 pm
Have you got any evidence of that claim? (I mean “the poor put in their place”, ignore yet another pathetic label).
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 9:10 pm
Criminals are scum. Fuck them and their sense of entitlement to the taxpayer’s (decent hard-working folk’s) dollar ….
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 9:15 pm
Hey vto, any dark alley, any place, any time, I will meet you. I know who will come off second best. I am sick of the tax payer being held to ransom.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 9:21 pm
Very reasonable policy. I’d guess that Bennett only recently learned that these folks were still getting benefits. Most people think the govt data match everything, but the reality is that the law makes it hard, and it’s actually expensive to build the systems. So mostly one arm of govt has no idea what other arms of govt are doing.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 9:24 pm
Shunda Barunda you are f***ing kidding that’s the same guy? I thought they sent him back home?
I remember seeing him being dragged out of the ceiling by two cops on TV. If the school pay him the monies awarded I would say more fool them.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 9:27 pm
Oh, come on, don’t tell fibs. You know that isn’t true. Do you really think that we are all children of wealth and privilege? We aren’t.
For sure, I’m not.
It’s a pity: you were starting to make sense for a moment. This regression into class-baiting is a waste of time and energy on your part.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 9:28 pm
Ham, really, you believe this shit? “It is a good point -I want a class-less society while you Tories want the poor put in their place.
You consider brainy poor people as a threat.”
You do realise that just because you spout these thoughts of yours it doesn’t actually make it true.
Brainy poor people are the ones we want to work hard, to raise themselves up, because, when they do, it makes it better for everyone. The issue, as noted before by FES (I think), for those on the left – and hard left – is that when they do, they dont vote left anymore…
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 9:33 pm
F E Smith- Well said. I certainly didn’t come from a “privileged” background myself but managed to keep myself out of trouble, get my sorry arse to University and make something of myself…
Hamnida-”You consider brainy poor people as a threat”
Vote:I’m sorry but if they were “brainy” then they wouldn’t be poor…
September 5th, 2012 at 9:35 pm
I disagree – the more educated, the more likely to vote Left.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 9:41 pm
Hamnida, I’d be happy with more of our people voting…period.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 9:45 pm
Didnt say educated ham, said, and I quote “to work hard, to raise themselves up” – don’t need an education to do that.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 9:52 pm
I know a 17 year old student at our school who has had 9 name change since birth. Both his parents are currently in prison (dad is enforcer for local gang).
Someone earlier up mentioned something about not knowing you have an arrest warrant because of similar name. It made me think of this kid who probably has a number of adults claiming additions to their benefit for him as a dependent. Gotten away with because of the multiple name changes.
I think some families are way ahead of the state here as far as manipulating the system….
I agree with whoever above said there needs to be a sharing of info between govt depts.
It makes me sick how many kids are being harmed/neglected, we (as a school) report it, and CYFs does NOTHING. They are useless. Still collect their benefit claiming the extra for the kids they are ‘caring for’ and CYFs lets it continue.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 9:57 pm
again allready you repeat you mime highIQ = left or educated=left
Vote:one more time ham its high IQ=liberal with the kicker that high IQ = liberal yet not socialist =neo lib ie its not up to the government to steal of the rich to give to the poor
As I have given you link to the actual research paper that contained this information and highlighted the relevant statistic you have proof that the subset of liberals that have IQ above the norm does not include those who are socialist.
If you are liberal the more socialist you are the lower your IQ
September 5th, 2012 at 10:11 pm
Some people claim CYFs do nothing. Like all government agency they have limited resources so cannot do everything.
As a foster parent I have found good and not so good working for them. However in general the staff do a good job in difficult situations.
Yes CYFs make mistakes. However they get a lot right too. The 90% plus they get right doesn’t make the news.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 10:30 pm
cyf’s I am not going there client confidentiality just to say some in cyf’s are the problem not the cure
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 10:42 pm
It is absolutely astounding to me, the amount of comments posted by arrogant, naieve, morons. There is no left and right, there never has been. All policies are dictated by the same masters, (corporations not politicians) they just change colours every few years (red or blue, labour or national), until enough people get pissed off by the current agenda, under the illusion of choice. The people fall for it every time which is why nothing changes. Left and right is an illusion. So you are mad because people with warrants get money? Start getting mad about your hard earned tax dollars going to relief in countries we have never heard of while our kids go to school without breakfast and footwear. Start getting mad because for many people, no matter how you try, the corporations do business overseas, taking our jobs. All you sanctimonious pr***s that work in industries that don’t create anything, best you get off your high horse because your days are numbered. NOT UNEMPLOYED, UNDEREMPLOYED by the way.
Vote:September 5th, 2012 at 11:31 pm
Not read all of the above !!
It appears to me to be a perfect example of PC gone mad..
You are WANTED and it is in the system .. Stop payments.. Wanted !!..
YOU .. Have to front up for your next payment from THE SYSTEM !!..
IN PERSON.. With an explanation.. Accepted or arrested !!..
Problem Solved ..
Vote:September 6th, 2012 at 5:28 am
Hamnida what a silly thing to say that more higher educated people vote left and that the right want poor people put in their place.
Who put them in “their place” in the first instance? The left and their welfare state did. They were the ones that handed out money to the left to keep them out of work and on the dole. The left were the ones that wanted to pay unemployed in work credits FFS. They want those who work longer with good jobs to bear the most pain, via high taxes and boast about wanting to take more off them to fund more welfare for the poor. The left need a desperate poorer class to get their votes from.
We all know that once you get off welfare, get a job and pay tax, you start to question why your hard earned dollars go to those that layabout. The left prey upon the poor as voting fodder and are quite unashamed about it. Their worst nightmare is an extra 200,000 kiwis becoming middle income earners as they’ll be paying taxes and growing more affluent.
Vote:September 6th, 2012 at 5:40 am
More lunacy from a lefty loon. Your proof?
Vote:September 6th, 2012 at 5:56 am
CYFs
often don’t turn up to scheduled meetings with kids. they just don’t bother. even though the kids are sitting there waiting, nervous, finally having had the guts to say things aren’t right at home (understatement). then when CYFs do turn up NOTHING happens, NOTHING changes, even though the kids are in an unsafe environment (abuse, neglect etc). the kids then feel that they are not believed and/or nobody cares about them, they are worthless.
that is my experience. over and over.
Vote:September 6th, 2012 at 7:41 am
There are about 400,000 beneficiaries (not counting super) so only 8200 in a poor population with warrants is not too bad. The view that this is lumping all beneficiaries on with criminals is not held out by facts.
Sometimes I think NZ is short of reason – we have so many hand wringers bemoaning poverty amongst children who think more benefits will solve the problem. When you look at the problem objectively, you see the biggest factor in ensuring proper nutrition, education, housing and care depends on whether an adult in the house working.
Vote:September 6th, 2012 at 7:46 am
Here’s some comments for and against this policy, including:
Criminals are New Zealand’s most vulnerable citizens?
Vote:September 6th, 2012 at 8:35 am
I disagree – the more educated, the more likely to vote Left.
That explains why Manurewa and Otara are National party safe seats.
Vote:September 6th, 2012 at 8:42 am
I would consider that the requirements for getting the dole should be more simmiliar to those for getting paid in any job – having to turn up on time.
How about having each office split it’s client’s up acording to type of work required, and 5 differnt ways after that. Those after trades work can show up at 7am and sign in, those who are after office work, 9am. Or maybe just everyone at 8am.
You’re required to show up on a specific day every week or be treated the same as if you skipped work.
But the reality is that if you implemented something like that, they’d probably allow people to be half an hour late and still get half the people not show up.
Vote:September 6th, 2012 at 8:56 am
The supposition that the educated vote left fails to take into account that education and intellect do not always go hand in hand.
Vote:September 6th, 2012 at 8:57 am
I watched a spokesperson last night. She condemned the move because it Was simply another case of beneficiary bashing. She said that last week all beneficiaries were drug users and this week, they were all criminals. She then appeared to go on to say that the move would put Work & Income New Zealand staff at risk – suggesting that disgruntled beneficiaries would take out their anger on staff. It seems to me that you cannot advance one argument and then directly contradicted as she has done!
Unfortunately, the emotive side of this has overridden the objective argument. More than half of people subject to warrants for arrest appear to be beneficiaries. This seems to be a very significant number and worth pursuing. Vto raised the point that it should apply across the board and questions whether it should apply to superannuitants. If there are statistics to show that there is a significant number of superannuitants subject to arrest warrants and the state is funding their flight, it may be worth looking at. However, superannuation is a universal right – not quite in the same vein as unemployment and other benefits.
It would be interesting to undertake an analysis of the other 50% of people fleeing the police. Are they continuing to receive wages from their employers? For most people, taking off in order to avoid an arrest warrant more than often coincided with the cessation of the wages. Is there a reasoned argument why beneficiaries should be in a more privileged position? Or will we be seeing Mr Minto from Unite lambasting employers for failing to pay an absconding offenders?
Vote:September 6th, 2012 at 9:40 am
I have posted a myriad of journal articles on this blog confirming the more educated and intelligent a person is, the more likely they are to vote Left of Centre.
I challenge any Neolib or Tory to produce research that shows Neolibs and Tories are more intelligent than the Left.
Vote:September 6th, 2012 at 10:51 am
I watched a spokesperson last night. She condemned the move because it Was simply another case of beneficiary bashing.
I’m beginning to think that “beneficiary bashing” is code for “I can’t think of a good reason to oppose this so I’ll just imply you’re an evil person”.
Vote:September 6th, 2012 at 10:55 am
I challenge any Neolib or Tory to produce research that shows Neolibs and Tories are more intelligent than the Left.
I’ve seen several studies that “prove” this. They usually boil down to the researcher seeing what he/she wants to see.
But I have seen one study that made a very good point – that conservatives understand liberals very well, while liberals often have a very poor understanding of conservatives.
Vote:September 6th, 2012 at 11:00 am
Evidence produced in favour so far: 648 comments.
And counting…
Vote:September 6th, 2012 at 11:11 am
Elaycee: quite. I don’t think that someone who thinks everyone should be paid the same salary has the right to opine that his political opponents are stupider than he is.
Vote:September 6th, 2012 at 11:13 am
OK im confused…does crime pay or not ?
Vote:September 6th, 2012 at 12:07 pm
Is this not another example of the abject failure of out welfare system? How many years has it taken to actually work this out and how many thousands have we paid to potential rapists, grug dealers,thugs and theives before Paula has put a stop to it? We simply cannot be that dumb can we!
Vote:September 6th, 2012 at 2:47 pm
Still waiting for evidence.
Vote:September 6th, 2012 at 2:49 pm
FES quite right re missing bus and other miscellaneous excuses.
My favourite is can’t do community work due to work commitments. The conversation usually goes like this:
Vote:‘who didn’t you do your community work?’
‘ah, I’ve been busy with work and shit’
‘the question for you is can you work if you are in prison?’
‘eh? What do you mean?’
‘you don’t do court sentences. What do you think is going to happen to you?’
‘what, you’re my lawyer you can’t say that’
‘yes I am your lawyer not your miracle worker’
September 6th, 2012 at 2:59 pm
Criminals are New Zealand’s most vulnerable citizens?
People who are subject to arrest warrants are not necessarily criminals.
Vote:September 6th, 2012 at 6:00 pm
Ham: start by finding “a neolib or a Tory”. Not really people that exist in NZ.
You’ve posted drivel that is largely inaccurate.
It’d be interesting to see how you square the circle that you believe that more intelligent and educated people vote left, and that you believe that rich people vote right. Presumably that means that rich people are stupid and ill-educated. I’d have to wonder why smart and well educated people can’t work out how to earn money.
Vote:September 7th, 2012 at 12:55 pm
Greame,
Vote:You will notice I used the word “potential” ciminals. You are right, however they have AN ARREST WARRANT out for them and you generally don’t get one of those for J walking. Turn up, get cleared, get the dole back dated. Chances are that’s going to happen even if they are found guilty. Our prisons are full and paying the low-lifes the dole is cheaper than putting them in our holiday lockups. What would our police do if they weren’t chasing repeat offenders anyway?