MRP sale delayed

September 3rd, 2012 at 4:29 pm by David Farrar

Adam Bennett at NZ Herald reports:

The partial sale of Mighty River Power has been delayed until next year, Prime Minister John Key confirmed this afternoon.

Mr Key said the sale would now take place in the period from March to June and would be followed by the partial sale of either Genesis or Meridian later next year.

This is a significant decision. While MRP will still be floated, the chance of having all five sales before the 2014 election is diminished. National would ideally like them all completed so that 2014 is not about any further , but other issues. So Labour will be happy with today’s decision. They will also be more likely to get the signatures for their petition completed in time, so that the petition is validated before the first sale. They will then use that to call for a further delay (which of course will not happen).

I guess the Government wasn’t confident that if they did not delay, that legal action wouldn’t force a delay anyway. So this is probably a case of making a virtue out of necessity.

This is also a win for the Party. They will use the delay as proof that being constructively engaged with Government, is better than total opposition to everything as Mana does.

One possibility for the Government is to only sell minority stakes in three SOES, not four (Air NZ is not an SOE), which could still be done before the 2014 election. There is a case for the time being very bad for Solid Energy, and also a case for not selling Genesis (which I will blog on later this week). Both of these companies are pretty small compared to the others.

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140 Responses to “MRP sale delayed”

  1. Cunningham (821 comments) says:

    Hugely disappointing and I think this is going to cause untold damage to the government. National will regret this decision.

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  2. Manolo (13,395 comments) says:

    A morally bankrupt Labour lite government retreats and panders to the greedy racists.
    Who cares about the country if Key & co.’s sole aim is to keep racists like Pita Sharples as coalition partners.

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  3. garethw (205 comments) says:

    “National would ideally like them all completed so that 2014 is not about any further asset sales, but other issues”
    I get the political reality of this, but I really wish the Government wasn’t making significant asset divestment decisions based on rushing to an election timetable…

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  4. Grendel (959 comments) says:

    oh for fucks sake. grow some balls national, and do what you were elected to do. tell the racist council to go fuck itself and float the shares asap.

    i also cannot beleive they are even going to consider this ‘shares plus’ bullshit. more pandering to racist garbage.

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  5. Manolo (13,395 comments) says:

    This is also a win for the Maori Party. They will use the delay as proof that being constructively engaged with Government..

    Win is DPF’s euphemism of the month. The racists have forced Key to a coward capitulation and to raise the white flag.

    The Maori Party has Labour lite by the balls (a gross exageration on my part since it has no gonads to squeeze).

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  6. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    A victory for common sense.

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  7. s.russell (1,565 comments) says:

    If National had charged ahead with the sales then either the Maori Party would have waked out or it would have been politically destroyed. Either result would have done more long-term damage to National’s prospects than a six-month delay in the MRP sale. That is the real world situation. Sorry Manolo.

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  8. tvb (4,210 comments) says:

    A rushed decision would have been bad for getting best valur and could have loinked like desperation. This is the lessor evil and represents a sound decision in all the circumstances. Rushed sales cost money and if the government conducted a fire sale that would be very bad. But the whole process needs a serious think just where it is going now.

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  9. gravedodger (1,517 comments) says:

    The self appointed, self opinionated, undemocratic brown upper house of the New Zealand legislature delays the attempt by the Key government to make a meaningful step to sort out the inherited mess left by the genius Cullenomics.

    And most of us thought the upper house had been abolished by Syd Holland 60 years ago.

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  10. Pete George (22,866 comments) says:


    I get the political reality of this, but I really wish the Government wasn’t making significant asset divestment decisions based on rushing to an election timetable…

    Exactly. I’d rather see fewer floats less rushed and done better.

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  11. Redbaiter (7,642 comments) says:

    Jelly Back Johnny rides again.

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  12. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    > if the government conducted a fire sale that would be very bad

    Yeah it’s not like there’ll be a fire sale in March, eh.

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  13. Say Goodbye to Hollywood (555 comments) says:

    Gutless, plain and simple. I hope you’re reading this John.

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  14. KiwiGreg (3,181 comments) says:

    This country is fucked.

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  15. hmmokrightitis (1,515 comments) says:

    “A victory for common sense.”

    From the arbiter of the same. I think not.

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  16. Griff (6,829 comments) says:

    Time to trash the treaty, moari seats, special preference and all race based legislation
    One people one country one law for all

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  17. rouppe (918 comments) says:

    There is no party left that I can vote for at the next election.

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  18. Hamilton Lad (2 comments) says:

    Well done National. Now, stick the other foot out, reload, take aim …. Fire!

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  19. Pete George (22,866 comments) says:

    This shouldn’t have been a surprise, seemed an obvious option – Delay Mighty River float.

    Makes both political and business sense in the circumstances.

    And this thread illustrates why we don’t have blog commenters running the country.

    Sure there’s a bit of sorting out on the water rights – but more time makes that easier to do properly rather than getting pushed too quickly into unwise compromises.

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  20. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    ah well.

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  21. Peter (1,578 comments) says:

    “getting pushed too quickly into unwise compromises”

    How many years have they had?

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  22. RRM (9,478 comments) says:

    While I appreciate that it’s not ideal to see the Govt bend over backwards for the Maori Council…is it VITAL that Mighty River Power be sold RIGHT NOW? Really?

    How many days or weeks worth of the Your NACTional Government’s overseas borrowing would a successful sale buy us…?

    While RRM is no great fan of I.W.I. (I Want It) politics and endless treaty recriminations and demands for royalties to the air we breathe, there’s something about the often-seen Maori stance of wanting to just taiho for however it takes for a proper decision to be made that makes a bit of sense IHMO.

    “And we Ents never say anything unless it is worth taking a long time to say…” and all that.

    If John Key goes headlong into National v. the whole entire Maori Race now then we’ll never hear the end of the recriminations. Whereas if this is done the right way, then the sales could happen in 2013 and that would be the end of it.

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  23. Bob R (1,340 comments) says:

    What was Treasury’s view on the partial sell off?

    “The overall fiscal impact of mixed ownership is:

    a reduction in net debt. Proceeds will fund new capital purchases, thereby reducing the Crown’s borrowing requirement. Forgone dividends increase net debt but are offset by estimated finance cost savings

    a small reduction in the operating balance before gains and losses. Profits attributable to minority shareholders (forgone profits) reduce the surplus. This is offset somewhat by a reduction in finance costs resulting from the reduced net debt

    a small increase in the operating balance over the forecast horizon. Gains on sales are forecast, reflecting an expectation that sale prices will be greater than the book value of the net assets to be sold.

    Over the mixed ownership programme, the forecast finance cost savings exceed the forecast forgone dividends. However, the forecast finance cost savings are less than the forecast forgone profits. This is because State-owned enterprises are expected to act as profitable companies and therefore over time to earn an appropriate commercial rate of return that reflects the risk of owning such companies. In effect, the Crown is exchanging an expected stream of income for a (risk adjusted) equivalent amount of cash now.”

    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/budget/2012/bps/04.htm

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  24. Brian Smaller (3,999 comments) says:

    Sad day for New Zealand.

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  25. Keeping Stock (10,112 comments) says:

    If the delay means that some of the lawyers who ride the ToW gravy train at the taxpayers expense don’t get the chance to turn their meters on, then it’s OK by me. And in the meantime the money I’ve set aside to buy MRP shares will earn a bit more interest, and I might end up owning a few more shares :D

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  26. Nostalgia-NZ (4,914 comments) says:

    Beats me why JK didn’t reach an arrangement over the water before making his announcements, I’ve little doubt a deal would have been done and his brinkmanship since looks foolish now – because he blinked.

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  27. berend (1,634 comments) says:

    So that’s it for National’s plan to get us back in the black.

    Keep borrowing your $300 million a week John. The National voter only cares if Labour does it.

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  28. Viking2 (11,147 comments) says:

    Pete George (14,436) Says:
    September 3rd, 2012 at 5:10 pm

    This shouldn’t have been a surprise, seemed an obvious option – Delay Mighty River float.

    Makes both political and business sense in the circumstances.

    And this thread illustrates why we don’t have blog commenters running the country.

    No Pete but a group of racists now run the Govt. The Govt. is elected to govern and this one specifically on asset sales but now any time any govt want to do anything the Maori mob and the Wai tangi group will have the final say. A say way beyound the wildest interpretation of any Treaty which was after all a capitualtion to the Crown by waring Maori tribes in return for Peace in their nieghbourhood.

    No democracy left in NZ.

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  29. Hamilton Lad (2 comments) says:

    http://www.constitutionalreview.org/ Sums it up!

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  30. Viking2 (11,147 comments) says:

    We had 54000 kiwi’s leave for Aussie last year. In the 90′s we had a similar m,igration. Both driven by the Maori issue mnore than any other single issue.

    Any guesses now. 75000 this year. Replaced of courdse by Indians and Chinese.

    What a fucking disgrace.

    Natioanl don’t deserve to govern.

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  31. Joseph Carpenter (210 comments) says:

    The problem isn’t that the timetable is political, it’s fiscal – wake the fuck up people! This National government has booked in $6 billion of revenue from asset sales in future budgets including $1.4 billion in the CURRENT budget. It was highly optimistic of National to fulfill their main election policy – return to surplus by 2014 – it’s now absolutely impossible without significant spending cuts and/or tax increases in the next two budgets (probably the next budget to reduce the fallout going into an election). And in further good news the interim Q1 budget Actual figures are apparently already $1.5 billion in the red/below projection. At this rate the government will be close to an ADDITIONAL $8,000,000,000.00 (8 billion) in the red this FY alone – no wonder they’re borrowing like fuck ($153 million a week extra just for this), and missing the target this much will likely also incur a credit rating downgrade (and thats the optimistic scenario – assumes Eurozone or US or China/BRIC or Aus or Jp don’t undergo major meltdown).

    And of course National yet again misses an opportunity to show some leadership. Looks like “maori shares plus(TM)” will be a go. Given that National is indulging in the same nanny statism and social engineering as Labour their only major point of divergence is their claim to be better economic managers/stewards – well I’m not seeing it.

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  32. Viking2 (11,147 comments) says:

    Yep, look out guys the belt tightening has just begun. Your mortgage rates will go higher for longer or the Govt has to cut spending a lot more harshly.

    No doubt the Nats. will attack the weak in our society. That’s their form.

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  33. Lazybum (259 comments) says:

    A further step in the
    Niggerfication of NZ. Maori are a useless race of bludgers. Money money money is what I want.

    [DPF: 30 demerits. You are bow on 80]

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  34. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    New Zealand’s public debt is extremely low by OECD standards.

    Surplus in 2014 or 2017, not really a big deal.

    Having the Nation’s revenue generating assets on the books for generations come. That’s a big deal.

    These asset sales aren’t going to happen.

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  35. Lazybum (259 comments) says:

    At this rate I will vote Greens in 2014. NZ is ducked, may as well get it over and done with.

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  36. kowtow (7,653 comments) says:

    So a major decision has been deferred to consult unelected Maoris.

    Government, having consulted unelected Maoris outside of Parliament will then ignore Labour ,the Greens and NZ First,all of whom have elected MPs and a mandate from the electorate.

    WTF?

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  37. Sofia (819 comments) says:

    However, after careful consideration ministers had decided to undertake a short consultation period with iwi over a “shares plus” option put forward by the Waitangi Tribunal, he said.
    Shares plus could give Maori particular rights in the company above other shareholders.

    One will still look at the detail of course, but for buying into this myself at face value – I wouldn’t touch it with a proverbial fucking forty foot barge pole.

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  38. Nostalgia-NZ (4,914 comments) says:

    Viking2 5.38.

    And you have figures supporting that 54,000 NZers left New Zealand and none were Maori?
    I think you will find a high proportion are Maori that are leaving, so how does that fit into your dramatic picture?

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  39. Peter (1,578 comments) says:

    I, for one, welcome our new brown overlords.

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  40. Manolo (13,395 comments) says:

    The coward National Party of today is a pale shadow of itself.
    Sadly populated by weaklings, parasites, yes-men and other non-entities this pathetic group of appeasers was easily beaten up by a group of Stone Age chiefs brandishing spears.

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  41. CharlieBrown (910 comments) says:

    I’m becoming more and more ashamed to be a New Zealander. John Key completely lacks a mid-section, he is a gutless, spineless poll driven cretin that has cost New Zealand so much. It wouldn’t surprise me that the only thing we get out of Nationals policy of partially selling SOB’s …ooops i mean SOE’s, is Maori ownership of the water.

    I’m voting labour next election (assuming ACT dissolves), only to get rid of the current crop of national dicks and hopefully pave the way for a bunch of right of center politicians to come through and fix things.

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  42. CharlieBrown (910 comments) says:

    hmmmm as sedition is no longer illegal, anyone up for overthrowing the government?

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  43. Manolo (13,395 comments) says:

    thedavincimode have been spotted walking towards the Beehive with a big bunch of flowers in hand, ready to congratulate the disgraceful Neville Key. :-)

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  44. trout (904 comments) says:

    A classic case of ‘Danegeld’ (The Danes extracted this tax from the English in return for not raping their women and razing their villages). It is appeasement by bribery in a NZ context. Clever politically savvy Maori can always roll over Pakeha politicians who in general are confused and impatient.

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  45. Pete George (22,866 comments) says:

    It is appeasement by bribery in a NZ context. Clever politically savvy Maori can always roll over Pakeha politicians who in general are confused and impatient.

    I think the opposite has happened, instead of caving to demands Key has been prepared to delay the first float and deal with the issues properly.

    “The Government does not believe shares plus is necessary or desirable. Further, we do not believe that to continue with our share offer without shares plus would be a Treaty breach. The Government has, however, decided that the right thing to do at this point is to undertake a short period of consultation,” Mr Key said.

    Associate finance minister Steven Joyce told Radio New Zealand’s Checkpoint programme on Monday the Government wants to be sure it hasn’t missed anything before it makes a final call. Mr Joyce said the shares plus option could also lower the value of the state-owned companies and result in a lower sale price.

    I’m much happier seeing a delay compared to having a hurried share deal done.

    MRP won’t go away, it will still be there next year.

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  46. MT_Tinman (2,995 comments) says:

    NZ; Apartheid in action!

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  47. Alan Johnstone (1,064 comments) says:


    A further step in the
    Niggerfication of NZ. Maori are a useless race of bludgers. Money money money is what I want.

    Are we really going to let that post stand ?

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  48. Joseph Carpenter (210 comments) says:

    You want to know the real joke? I thought the NZ Maori Council was a pan-tribal grouping of Maori set up by Maori themselves to give them a united national voice. Wrong – it’s entirely a creature of government, a big useless QUANGO set up by the Maori Welfare Act 1962 (now the Maori Community Development Act), with members appointed solely by the elites of various Iwi. And it’s funded solely by the taxpayer, in direct contravention of the law the last two years audited accounts are missing, but the last I could find: Income from Crown = $1,960,000.00; Income from District Maori Councils = nil; Income from Executive Maori Councils = nil; Income from Other = $18,122.00 (interest). Thats right – the taxpayers have setup and are entirely funding their own brownmailers. Check them out here: http://www.newzealandmaoricouncil.com/
    (what there is of it – most of it is just pretty pages with zero content, your money well spent).

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  49. Alan Johnstone (1,064 comments) says:

    Might be wrong, but I thought the Maori council was an elected body ? I’ve read the 1962 Act and I interpreted it as elected then

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  50. Joseph Carpenter (210 comments) says:

    Mr Johnstone, wrong, three members appointed from each District Maori Council – decision by each District Council in a meeting only – not an election.

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  51. Jimbob (640 comments) says:

    The Government better pray that the Fed, ECB and the BoE money printing, when it arrives, keeps the capital markets a float. If it doesn’t, then the assets sales will not go ahead. This a very serious consequences if the stimuluses’ do not work. Credit markets will freeze. Hope is not a strategy.

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  52. Pete George (22,866 comments) says:

    Alan Johnstone – I thought it was worse than usual. Both extremes get nastier when they don’t get what they want – which is usually unrealisitc and/or unreasonable. Report it to DPF if you think it’s justified.

    Maori Council is elected but I don’t know by whom. I don’tt hink it’s as widely representative as it used to be but it’s certainly more representaive than some random blog commenters.

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  53. Griff (6,829 comments) says:

    Yes even i thought nigger was a little over the top
    After all those taken from Africa to power the south at least had the use of clay metal and other facets of humanity were as moari technology was at the level of Neanderthals when first discovered

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  54. Reid (15,974 comments) says:

    Are we really going to let that post stand ?

    It’s just an unwisely worded allusion to John Ansell’s campaign Alan. One can be forgiven for concluding that on this issue that is precisely what is at the heart of this issue. For example, if water was such a heartfelt issue to Maori, how come they haven’t been munting on about it for simply decades since the Tribunal first began considering claims dating back to 1840 in the early 1980′s? How come the first the public really gets to seriously hear about this centuries-old fixation is only when the faceless entity with heaps of taxpayer money at its disposal so its up for grabs decides to put a major consumer of this “taonga” up for grabs and even then, it takes till the eve of the sale when it’s been known for over three years, till this point to make the claim?

    Forgive non-Maori people who obviously have no understanding about spiritual matters since we’re not human or spiritual we simply want to live like some Dickensian factory owner who employs children at slave wages, for thinking that, for that’s what it seems like what, in fact is happening.

    Personally I wish we’d explained to Maori when the radio spectrum came up that no, you don’t have property rights in that since you weren’t exploiting it at the time and that’s the rational cutoff point, for treaty claims. But most unwisely, as a nation, we didn’t do that. You could use the same argument about the fisheries but personally I’m in favour of that notwithstanding I seriously doubt Maori used to take their canoes hundreds of miles out to sea to catch orange roughy back in 1840 but I’m in favour because life is give and take and this is part of what we give. However the radio spectrum was a bridge too far because, because, this raised Maori hopes and expectations through the roof without limit and that was most unwise of us, because limits need to be set, and where pray tell today, are the limits? Is it 50/50 say in all govt decisions for example? I suspect it is.

    But if Maori were wise, and unfortunately they’ve proven not to be in all sorts of areas to date, but if they were, they’d realise the gravy train lasts only for as long as white guilt lasts and at this point in time, I personally am beginning to sense that white goodwill for all things Maori is starting to wear quite thin, and if one were wise, one would start advocating amongst Maori that it’s time to backoff and regroup for a few decades lest one wear out the welcome that’s been by all standards, worldwide and other. But the social dynamics which have been happening whereby young Maori are instructed all the time amongst their activists and peer groups, that Aotearoa is theirs for the taking and their rightful inheritance, mitigate directly against that peaceful outcome.

    When you look at the reality of what’s happened Alan, you can boil it down to a failure of politicians properly to manage expectations. This has happened because politics elects people who look attractive and talk well but don’t have much going on upstairs, just like most of the people who vote for them. But that’s what’s happening here, and if you’re concerned, perhaps you’d be more effective in instructing Maori to pull their heads in, rather than complaining about someone who went a bit OTT in the emotion of the moment.

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  55. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Very poor effort by Key on Close Up. This Government is a total shambles.

    How many back downs by 2014?

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  56. Reid (15,974 comments) says:

    Very poor effort by Key on Close Up. This Government is a total shambles.

    Can you explicate Hamnida? (I didn’t see it since I try to avoid watching idiots: i.e. Walrus.)

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  57. nasska (10,689 comments) says:

    It’s a vain hope but what an opportunity for the Government to prune the Public Service & cut the Social Welfare budget since the government coffers will be starved of the money the asset sales would have generated.

    Then lay the blame squarely at the feet of the greedy grasping Maori elite who hold the country to ransom.

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  58. orewa1 (428 comments) says:

    Reid at 7.27pm – “At this point in time, I personally am beginning to sense that white goodwill for all things Maori is starting to wear quite thin, and if one were wise, one would start advocating amongst Maori that it’s time to back off and regroup for a few decades.”

    Exactly.

    Water goes round and round. It “belongs” to all the citizens on earth at whatever time it falls out of the sky. Not to Maori. Not to Councils. Not to the euphemistically-named Water Care Services. To all of us.

    Historic claims are absolute bullshit. National’s fawning reaction to the claims of a tiny Maori elite has been a silly embarrassment. Its done zilch for ordinary Maori folk. Ordinary, sensible New Zealanders of whatever race know better. Politicians struggling for their own survival are way out of touch.

    Much as the delay of asset sales may evoke a reaction, the far bigger issue is to bring the Maori elite back to reality. Their silly claims are plain wrong.

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  59. mavxp (494 comments) says:

    Griff, incorrect.

    Pre-European contact, Maori (an Austronesian people, migrants originally from South China c. 4000BC (before metallurgy, writing and the wheel-barrow were invented there), via Taiwan, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, New Guinea, Polynesia by 1000AD) had progressed beyond hunter-gatherers to a mixture of agriculture (primarily Kumara) and hunter-gathering to supplement their agriculture -particularly for protein since domesticated pigs and chickens hadn’t made the journey all the way with them, and tropical plants from Polynesia also didn’t make it south. They had relatively advanced neolithic stone tools (e.g. bone fish hooks), a tribal structured society, and obviously outrigger-canoes with sail-cloth from beaten bark (Tapa cloth). They rapidly adopted new technologies when possible (guns, blankets etc), and learnt to read. Neanderthals were on a par with Aborigines in Australia in terms of technology and sophistication (c. migrants from around 40,000 BC). I suggest you read Jarod Diamond’s “Guns Germs and Steel” to get an appreciation of how it came to be that Europeans ended up with advanced technologies and complex societies by the Age of Exploration.

    BTW the N comment is disgraceful and clearly the fellow is trolling. However according to Poe’s law it may be sincere or a parody -we cannot know for sure which it is because the view expressed is so extreme.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poes_law

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  60. Griff (6,829 comments) says:

    Agree reid they have got to greedy and judging by the unusual level of disgust on here today far more moderate persons than me are taking offence at the level of greed and arrogance being displayed by the moari leadership

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  61. tom hunter (4,435 comments) says:

    Are we really going to let that post stand ?

    I think DPF will, in exactly the same way he allowed this piece of filth to be submitted by a left-wing dickhead the other day. Free speech means you get to live with the results of what you say – which for me means applying RIP.

    Aside from that nastiness – and in the spirit of better humour – I wonder when Dim is going to be along for some good, juicy Schadenfreude. He certainly deserves to enjoy it following his prediction a few days ago:

    I don’t know how this debate over Maori proprietary interest of water-rights will play out, but I do know that any time Key’s government goes up against an opponent that isn’t Labour (environmental movement, teachers union) they routinely suffer a humiliating defeat. So I’m predicting a painful back-down by Key, followed by the obligatory flurry of Herald columns praising him for his visionary CEO-like leadership style.

    Or National bloggers perhaps!

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  62. OneTrack (2,619 comments) says:

    It looks like we have had a sudden change is government, but I missed the voting. And the Maori Council is now in charge and have overruled a legally elected government. Well the Greens do say democracy itself is overrated and that we shouldn’t still be using limited concepts like one-man-one-vote. I guess a tribal monarchy system based on might-is-right and the colour of your skin is one way to go.

    Is this when people start getting trampled in the rush to the airport?

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  63. Batman (97 comments) says:

    Chill out kids, Iwi ain’t getting shit. The government is going through the motions in order to appease the hand wringers and Iwi. Listen to Joyce on Checkpoint, he was definitely saying ‘no’ without actually coming straight out with it

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/114860/government-delays-partial-sale-of-mighty-river-power

    Come March 2013, I think the left are going to have to buckle themselves in and hold on as there are going to be floats coming thick and fast and without mercy.

    Drill it, Mine it, Sell part of it…

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  64. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Reid – It was like a PR stunt gone wrong. He tried to make the back-down look like a success.

    The Tory Party should go back to what they are good at – beneficiary bashing, Maori bashing, keeping poor kids poor, and running small to medium sized businesses.

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  65. RandySavage (196 comments) says:

    Its nice watching the right squirm

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  66. Griff (6,829 comments) says:

    As far as I was aware tapa cloth technology had been lost by maori even though mulberry had made the crossing successfully a similar story with taro, Kumara had reverted to a tuba size of human thumb and was at best a poor stop gap to insure survival over winter. The other crops of things like karaka tennax and Cordyline not sufficient to call their society farming based It is quite amazing to see the decline in technological achievement of Polynesia since the Lapita peploes.

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  67. Manolo (13,395 comments) says:

    Other than P.G, staunch UnitedFuture follower, where are the defenders of this spineless National Party government?

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  68. kowtow (7,653 comments) says:

    Batman

    Steady on there.They’re only partial,there’s not that many and the money will go fast and not very far,then what?

    The answer is cut ,cut ,cut. National won’t,won’t ,won’t.

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  69. nasska (10,689 comments) says:

    Manolo

    I can think of one thing to say in their favour. We hear much, from many sources about how JK puts popularity above all else.

    I think that the current delay for the assets sales may have laid that theory to rest.

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  70. tedbear (127 comments) says:

    Up until Labour sold New Zealand Post Office I had voted Labour. In selling this, Labour destroyed my career and that of thousands of others nationwide.
    I thought voting National with John Key as Prime Minister, a very successful business man, was a good choice – wrong again.
    I don’t think I’ll bother voting ever again.

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  71. Manolo (13,395 comments) says:

    Nasska, please allow me to paraphrase you:
    I can think of one thing to say in their favour. We hear much, from many sources about how JK puts NZ above all else.
    I think that the assets sale may have laid that theory to rest.

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  72. Pete George (22,866 comments) says:

    I’ve been trying to find out about the New Zealand Maori Council. There’s not a lot online. I’ve summarised what I’ve found, but I’d like to find out more. Anyone know any more?

    New Zealand Maori Council

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  73. Griff (6,829 comments) says:

    ted bear I know two persons who lost their jobs due to the sale of nz post one built off-roaders during his work time the other trained to become a New Zealand rep at squash wot was your careerer as aside from supposedly working for a telecommunication company

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  74. nasska (10,689 comments) says:

    Manolo

    It hasn’t been the easiest process to sell to the electorate. To their credit they went to the country last year with the sales as an election platform.

    If the voters had not realised that the choice was either swallow the dead rat National was offering or having Cath Delahunty & Trevor Mallard in charge the 2011 result may have been different.

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  75. Griff (6,829 comments) says:

    That is why whinnie done so well not a vote for the madleft but not a vote fro the asset sales
    sometimes you need to vote against
    tedbear take note
    “If you are part of a society that votes, then do so. There may be no candidates and no measures you want to vote for … but there are certain to be ones you want to vote against. In case of doubt, vote against. By this rule you will rarely go wrong.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love

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  76. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    I think this will be a turning point in the political cycle.

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  77. Joseph Carpenter (210 comments) says:

    Peter George the dearth of information on the NZ Maori Council is surprising isn’t given that’s a statue created and funded racist public QUANGO. And your completely wrong about it being democratically elected – the members are appointed, from the Maori Welfare Act 1962: Clause 21) Appointment of members of Maori Associations…
    sub “2) During the month of May in each year in which a triennial election is held, every District Maori Council shall hold a MEETING AT WHICH IT SHALL APPOINT the appropriate number of its members to be members of the New Zealand (national) Maori Council.” Members being three in number per District, plus it looks like the Minister (of Maori Affairs) can also appoint or remove members. Nice little earner for the old bro’s network.

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  78. Batman (97 comments) says:

    Kowtow: I did mean partial floats, full floats would be suicidal and also not fiscally responsible. my fault for not adding in a ‘partial’ in my sentence.

    I love how Hamnida is just stirring the pot every so often, such a snarky little bugger today!

    The government is slowly but surely putting in the foundations of a change in thinking, they are playing a long game which will hopefully benefit the country beyond the next three years, and which wouldn’t be worth risking just to satisfy the 10 or so social conservatives who hang out here.

    This is the new conservative (actually, its the classical libertarian / liberal type).

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  79. tedbear (127 comments) says:

    Griff 8.35pm

    I was a telephone technician, maintained and installed exchanges. You could make a lifetime career when I signed up in 1962.
    If you were prepared to study hard, you could just keep on climbing the ladder and with great caring bosses this was very achievable.
    Alas, Telecom didn’t want bosses caring for their staff – they only wanted more and better profits.

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  80. pq (728 comments) says:

    Key knew from the start that sales of NZ assets were wrong.
    Now the poilitical votes for backing off .
    By the way Farrarr is STOOGE DOG.

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  81. Tauhei Notts (1,611 comments) says:

    Wouldn’t it be delightful to hear David Shearer paraphrase R.D. Muldoon and describe Key (Bill Rowling Mark 2) as a shiver looking for a spine to run up.

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  82. tedbear (127 comments) says:

    Oh the joy, this Thursday I’m off to Wales for a nice long holiday and leave all this troddle.
    The question is, what will enzed be like when I return early December?

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  83. Griff (6,829 comments) says:

    answer
    pob fucked i fyny

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  84. tedbear (127 comments) says:

    i fyny?
    Please excuse my lack of blog language knowledge.

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  85. tedbear (127 comments) says:

    silly me, I got it now.
    have you heard of the place llareggub?

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  86. Nostalgia-NZ (4,914 comments) says:

    tedbear. Don’t worry Bill English will be in control, a pragmatic problem solver with a keen understanding of the difference between popular politics and the returns for having a sound economy, someone able to both adapt and predict where this issue would reach without having basic homework applied, someone unwilling to spend billions on the disaster that prisons are for example, capable of turning savings of expenditure into a broad base of jobs and incentives to both work and bolster the economy. I’m joking of course – sort of.

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  87. Griff (6,829 comments) says:

    Just across the ditch from Erewhon lovely country down that ways

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  88. tedbear (127 comments) says:

    Griff, after reading Dylan Thomas’s Under Milk Wood, I have had so much fun with many Welsh people that I asked if they knew where that place was. Because llareggub starts with two ll’s many believed there was such a place in Wales – some even went to retrieve maps.

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  89. Griff (6,829 comments) says:

    The mind plays strange tricks
    and google can make some of us appear smarter or better read than we really are :lol:
    My ancestry was from Caerphilly but I am as kiwi as black singlets swandries and Christmas at the batch

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  90. tedbear (127 comments) says:

    My friends I stay with are up north near Mold, not far over the border is Chester. Beautiful scenery in Autumn.
    Anytime really, I’ve also been there for all seasons.

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  91. kowtow (7,653 comments) says:

    batman

    the gummint don’t have any long game. They’ve sold out to a racial minority in the hope of being approved of as “inclusive”. The media loved it when JK got in,now we see the result and hopefully the voting public see it different to the media.The media are turning on him too.

    Social conservatives ,there’s a lot of us around.

    New conservative? Means nothing.Sell out more like.

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  92. Pete George (22,866 comments) says:

    They’ve sold out to a racial minority in the hope of being approved of as “inclusive”.

    They haven’t sold anything yet. They’ve reacted to a potential legal challenge, as they should have. A hiccup handled prudently. Not an ideal situation but much better than acting impatiently.

    If they sell out unreasonably I’ll grizzle, but i don’t think that’s justified, yet.

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  93. Mark (1,367 comments) says:

    This is the biggest blow to government since they have been in power. It is an embarrassing capitulation to the Maori Council and Maori Party on one of Nationals major policy platforms at the last election.

    Key had little choice but to pull the pin. He has been out manoeuvred and the delay at least gives time to deal with the issues. He knows different classes of shares for Maori in the IPO’s will in all probability lower the value of the remaining shares but it will also create the sort of precedence that goes way beyond this governments mandate of concessions on treaty settlements.

    How the government work through this is going to be defining for it and it is at risk of being hammered by those to both the right and left whichever way it goes.

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  94. Pete George (22,866 comments) says:

    Key had little choice but to pull the pin.

    He hasn’t pulled any pin. All he has done is pushed back the timing, something that was always an obvious possibility due to the tight timeframe.

    This gives time to defuse the hubris. And it allows time to for expose the intent of (some) greedy Maori in this, and to address legitimate concerns and negotiate reasonably with reasonable Maori.

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  95. rg (197 comments) says:

    Just looked up the word “pathetic’ in the dictionary. It means National Party.

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  96. Manolo (13,395 comments) says:

    Good on you, P.G. I haven’t seen you playing the part of Key’s defender for a while. You used to be Dunne’s human shield.

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  97. Pete George (22,866 comments) says:

    Manolo – I most often speak for myself as I always have done. Just calling it as I see it. I’d be criticising Key if I thought that was deserved. Importantly he keeps rejecting ‘shares-plus’ – that would have been a major negative.

    The ‘I want things my way right now’ comments here are as unrealistic as the Maori Council demands.

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  98. edd (150 comments) says:

    John Key has lost the plot… He sounds like a drunkard in the house and the only victories he’s had lately have been from trading insults!!! Didn’t take him long to go mad from the power of the PM. Bring back Jim I say…

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  99. nonpartisan (41 comments) says:

    This country is fucked. What kind of a future are my kids going to have when all their hard-earned tax dollars are being syphoned off by a greedy lazy racial minority group to which they don’t belong? I was raised to treat everyone equally and to abhor racism, but every day my opinion of Maori gets lower and lower. I don’t want to live in a country where entitlement is based on the ethnicity box you choose to tick and someone elses’ culture is being rammed down my throat every other day.

    When is somebody going to stand up to these numpties and say no to their ridiculous claims and demands? Unfortunately, I think we’ve gone too far now and this is never going to end. I never thought I would ever seriously consider moving to Australia, but I’m seriously considering it now. I don’t want my children to be second-class citizens in the own country.

    I was opposed to asset sales, but now they have my full support. Why? Because anything that remains in public hands is ripe for the picking by Maori. Sell the fucking lot off I say and let Maori get their share by earning a dollar and buying some like the rest of us non-Maori.

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  100. Griff (6,829 comments) says:

    Share plus is a concept that we are destined to here more of only it will not be called that and will be a share plus in the running of the Country that moari will be demanding The constitutional review is two thirds of the way though why have no common New Zealanders been consulted.? where are the ongoing progress reports that were promised.? The most important issue being discussed for New Zealand now and no press no comment no news at all after almost two years. Welcome our new overlords the brown upper house ruling New Zealand by unelected tribal authority for moari at the cost of democracy and freedom for all

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  101. mister nui (975 comments) says:

    +1 nonpartisan

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  102. Manolo (13,395 comments) says:

    I must admit that the despicable and reviled socialist queen Helen Clark showed more balls than Jelly Boy Key.

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  103. Paulus (2,503 comments) says:

    Having been a “conservative” supporter and serious worker all my life I shall seriously consider not voting next time (possibly my last opportunity).
    Sorry National but I am so disappointed with your stand over Maori so called rights.
    In this instance amongst many others the Government is being watered through the kidneys –
    like welfare – the more you give the more is expected.
    And they are being allowed to get away with it irrespective.
    I see that they are going to court again over Crafer farms without Fay – so who is going to bankroll them – one guess.

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  104. tom hunter (4,435 comments) says:

    What kind of a future are my kids going to have ….?

    A rhetorical question surely? Tens of thousands of young people from this country have already decided that a better future awaits them overseas. Whether they came upon that after deliberations in their homeland, or after working overseas in higher paying jobs with bigger companies and more prospects for growth and improvement, they look back at NZ and – at best – see it as a place where they might be able to go into semi-retirement and educate their kids.

    I’ve often thought that may be a pragmatic way forward for us: take advantage of what may already be happening, re-design the tax system and other government institutions to make such a move back even more favourable and just accept that we’re not going to create the types and scale of commerce that will keep our young people here. Sure, the economy may be increasingly static, as large, fixed enterprises come under or remain under the sway of government and large Maori tribal systems. But create a system that will circulate the youth back after twenty years or so to raise their kids in turn: at least we’ll have some of their money.

    Admittedly there will still be the increasingly institutionalised racism, but if people can build up enough wealth overseas they may be able to largely insulate themselves and their kids from that, especially if they don’t have to be locked into getting and keeping a job in NZ.

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  105. graham (2,216 comments) says:

    Man, I do not believe the amount of vitriol over this. You guys are going to morph into The Standard if you’re not careful.

    “This country is fucked … tax dollars are being syphoned off by a greedy lazy racial minority group … Apartheid in action … anyone up for overthrowing the government? … our new brown overlords … Niggerfication of NZ …. Maori are a useless race of bludgers …”

    Try rereading what RRM said yesterday at 5:16 pm. He – almost alone, apart from (never thought I’d say this, but here goes) Pete George – seems to have it right.

    Like it or not, the Treaty of Waitangi was signed as a founding document. Now exactly what that entitles Maori to, what implications it has for everyone else, etc etc, can be argued over ad infinitum. But you can’t just ignore it, which is what you morons seem to want to do.

    John Key has said he’s not in favour of “Shares Plus”, they’ve had advice that giving Maori the ability to make management or strategic decisions won’t work, and they know it’ll make the companies unattractive to investors. So he’s not exactly tugging the forelock and grovelling in the dust. But he has recognised that he does have to take the Waitangi Tribunal somewhat seriously (NOT the Maori Council – don’t confuse the two).

    FFS take a chill pill guys.

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  106. Griff (6,829 comments) says:

    Tom well written and considered as all ways,
    Another addition to you missive is the effect on single persons of the bias in New Zealand’s tax /welfare system towards family’s
    Even if the employment and remuneration opportunity were the same the incentive for young single persons to make there way over seas would still exist. due to tax cost
    It is often commented that only those in the upper levels of income pay nett tax in NZ it is seldom added that single persons with no depends are paying proportionately more of there incomes in tax than family’s This has the effect of encouraging the single middle class to make there way offshore to allow the building of sufficient assets to return for the raising of a family. Of course many leave with this intent and are captured by foreign country’s as once you have built up career success or social networks it is very hard to give them up and return here
    Your conclusion smell faintly of gated community and similar segregation. Some thing that those who choice is to remain will find very hard to reconcile. With the positions on moari to be so culturally apologetic in focus in all significant sectors of New Zealand politics I think you may be right

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  107. nonpartisan (41 comments) says:

    Like it or not, the Treaty of Waitangi was signed as a founding document. Now exactly what that entitles Maori to, what implications it has for everyone else, etc etc, can be argued over ad infinitum. But you can’t just ignore it, which is what you morons seem to want to do.

    Don’t you mean founding documents? There were at least two of them signed and are contradictory. “Honour the Treaty” we are told. Which fucking one?

    Supposedly, I’m a partner in this bullshit Treaty, but what the hell do I get out of it? Sweet FA is what. I was raised in a poor family and everything I have today, I have worked for. No handouts on this side of the Treaty. All the benefits flow in one direction only. It’s well beyond time for the Treaty to be consigned to the history books and for a constitution to be drawn up that treats all citizens equally and is completely free of any reference to ethnicity.

    John Key’s action speak louder than his words. You know there’s going to be a backroom deal done which once again grants special privilege for Maori. You’re right graham, we are morons. Morons for ever letting it get this far. Morons for channelling our anger into blog posts when we should be marching on Parliament and demanding an end to the tax-payer funded gravy train. Morons for ever thinking that the National Party would give us something different than Labour.

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  108. Manolo (13,395 comments) says:

    Morons for ever thinking that the National Party would give us something different than Labour.

    Well said.
    They were once different, but today the two morally bankrupt parties are sides of the same devalued socialist coin.

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  109. Griff (6,829 comments) says:

    ignore it Graham no we should do the legal thing and refute it under the grounds that the multiple versions differ and as such the two party’s that signed did not sigh the same treaty. There is no debate from maoridom that this is so and the leftist propaganda that says we should only consider the indigenous version is a lie
    If you actually look into the international law on treaty’s the different meanings contained in the English and maori versions mean it is null and void and has no standing in law

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  110. graham (2,216 comments) says:

    Instead of *assuming* what will happen with backroom deals and stuff, why not wait and see what really happens? Once the prospectus is finalised and you know exactly what will be on sale, if you think you’ll get a raw deal out of this share deal, the answer’s simple:

    Don’t buy the damn things.

    Hell, if you want to invest some money you’re not exactly short of options. Loads of other publicly listed companies out there, stick the momeny in a bank, buy an investment property, start up with Kiwisaver. At the end of the day, investing in these shares will be no different to investing in any other shares. Investors will weigh up the pros and cons, and if we all collectively say, “So you’ve guaranteed Maori automatic right of veto on absolutely all decisions if they think it might disadvantage the Taniwha in the river? Yeah, I don’t think I will buy after all, thanks very much” then the Government will have to rethink the remaining sales.

    Look, I’m no apologist for the Waitangi gravy train. Like you, I’ve had to work for everything I have. I started work at 17 straight out of school, I have never been on a benefit of any type at all. I’ve paid my way in this country. But to come out with a knee-jerk reaction of “All Maori are after the money so they can sit on their asses for the rest of their days” and ignore totally even the vague possibility that there might be some genuine concerns of Maori around the spiritual aspect of the waterways, is wrong.

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  111. nonpartisan (41 comments) says:

    Look, I’m no apologist for the Waitangi gravy train. Like you, I’ve had to work for everything I have. I started work at 17 straight out of school, I have never been on a benefit of any type at all. I’ve paid my way in this country. But to come out with a knee-jerk reaction of “All Maori are after the money so they can sit on their asses for the rest of their days” and ignore totally even the vague possibility that there might be some genuine concerns of Maori around the spiritual aspect of the waterways, is wrong.

    Fair point graham, but for me it's not a knee-jerk reaction. It's real anger that's been building up over a long time. And I wish I shared your optimism about genuine concerns of Maori, but I'm struggling to see anything but a cynical money-grab.

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  112. Pete George (22,866 comments) says:

    @nonpartisan

    It’s real anger that’s been building up over a long time. And I wish I shared your optimism about genuine concerns of Maori, but I’m struggling to see anything but a cynical money-grab.

    It’s good to see the real issues starting to be discussed.

    There are genuine concerns of some Maori.
    There’s a perception at least of a cynical money-grab by some Maori.

    And there’s no doubt that many people are concerned or angry – and both are growing – over the so-called gravy train and someMaori getting (or trying to get) preferential treatment.

    It’s a tricky situation for the Government and there are no ideal options but they are certainly not caving in to all demands, as is obvious by their refusal to accept many of them. They can’t just ignore legal processes, and even if they could they should give fair consideration to anyone, including the Maori Council.

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  113. Pete George (22,866 comments) says:

    The best way for the rest of us to stand up to things like ‘cynical money grabbing’ is to have strong well reasoned arguments, and not to resort to vitriol and abuse.

    And the Government parties, National in particular, are the most powerful means of exercising the voices of non-Maori concerns, so abusing them for not doing the unwise or the impossible is counterproductive.

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  114. graham (2,216 comments) says:

    nonpartisan at 11:09 am: Completely agree. I too am angry about some of the Moronic Maori that inhabit this country. I consider that Hone Harawira, for example, has done far more damage to ‘his’ people than any of the so-called ‘racists’ and ‘mo-fos’ that he points the finger at. Ditto for Titewhai, the Popata idiots, Margaret Mutu, insert a few other names here.

    But this thread seems to be mostly knee-jerk reaction from the majority of people. And I think they’re directing their anger at something that is actually relatively innocuous when put alongside some of the utter rubbish that has been evident over the past few years, especially some of the rubbish coming from the Maori Council (“Maori are entitled to all of the radio spectrum” is one such gem).

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  115. Mark (1,367 comments) says:

    Pete George lets be clear whilst Key has not pulled the pin on the sale of mighty river power he has pulled the pin on any chance of that sale occurring in the 2012 calendar year which is a significant back down for the National party. I am also not disagreeing with what he has done because he has little choice but there is no question that he has been out manoeuvred on this by the Maori groups leading the fight being the Maori Council and Maori Party. Combine this with Solid Energy and Air NZ and the national party look to be scrambling on this policy platform.

    I am for the asset sales but have always been wary of the timing because of the weakness of the NZ equity markets and the overhang of Europe. How Key and his team handle this from here on in is going to be defining for this government. If they can deal with the water rights issue and the Maori claims and get the sale away cleanly in the new year, importantly in my view without any preferential shares for Maori then they can turn it into a major victory for sensible management but currently there is considerable risk around their ability achieve this. Maori clearly have got a sense of a major win out of this and it has seemed to unite the view of the factional interests. Even Hone is on the same page as the Maori Party here for the moment.

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  116. anonymouse (695 comments) says:

    Speaking of reactions, this just came across my desk, I’m not sure if David Rankin is pulling my wizzer, ( but I think he is)


    Press Release by David Rankin at 11:48AM, 04 Sep 2012
    ———————————————–

    As the Government prepares to negotiate with Maori over ownership of rivers, a Waitangi Tribunal claim is being finalised for Maori to earn a dividend for the use of wind for commercial electricity generation.

    Ngapuhi political commentator and Hone Heke Foundation chairman, David Rankin, has been approached by a cohort of hapu representatives to act as spokesperson for the claim.

    “I’m not yet convinced about the full merits of the claim,” says Mr Rankin, “but in my preliminary discussions with the hapu representatives, they make some good points and I am hopeful that they will be able to get their claim finalised over the next few months.”

    According to Mr Rankin, the planned claim will insist that a pan-tribal body be established to manage shares in commercial wind-generated electricity, and to exercise a casting vote on where wind turbines can be located.

    Mr Rankin says that Maori entitlement to the wind can be justified under article two of the Treaty of Waitangi, which guarantees Maori full and exclusive ownership of all their properties. “Traditionally, the wind was regarded as a deity in Maori society, and Maori do not consider the Crown have the right to use it without Maori consent.”

    Mr Rankin is encouraged by the recent Tribunal claim for water, and believes that the claim to wind will lead on to other areas of property rights such as aerospace.

    ENDS

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  117. nonpartisan (41 comments) says:

    The best way for the rest of us to stand up to things like ‘cynical money grabbing’ is to have strong well reasoned arguments, and not to resort to vitriol and abuse.

    Strong well reasoned arguments have to defer to “Treaty Principles”. All of us must kowtow to this amorphous beast.

    This isn’t a strong well reasoned argument, but a question. When are the claims going to end Pete George? Where is the light at the end of the tunnel for the New Zealand tax-payer? How many billions more need to be repatriated to a small number of Maori before we can all agree that the perceived wrongs have been righted? If someone could put a stake in the ground, a definite timeline, a definite amount, perhaps we could all get on board and work toward paying that debt off. But right now, it’s looking like the debt will never be repaid and the only way to move on is to move out.

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  118. Manolo (13,395 comments) says:

    Mr Rankin is encouraged by the recent Tribunal claim for water, and believes that the claim to wind will lead on to other areas of property rights such as aerospace.

    The Stone Age tribes will copyright the Sun, the Moon, faraway galaxies and the whole universe, if possible.

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  119. Pete George (22,866 comments) says:

    anonymouse – pulling your wizzer, but a doozie. Must circulate it.

    When are the claims going to end Pete George?

    Some claims have been settled, some haven’t so it’s fair that they also get that opportunity. I presume most if not all outstanding ‘normal’ claims are in progress.

    The ‘abnormal’ claims like water and radio spectrum should be viewed separately and with much scrutiny and strong negotiation.

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  120. Manolo (13,395 comments) says:

    The ‘abnormal’ claims like water and radio spectrum should be viewed separately and with much scrutiny and strong negotiation.

    I disagree. Frivolous and baseless claims like those should be immediately rejected.
    There is no need to give oxygen to the scoundrels.

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  121. nonpartisan (41 comments) says:

    I agree with Manolo. Giving these nutty claims any consideration is to give them an air of legitimacy.

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  122. graham (2,216 comments) says:

    In my opinion, water claims and radio spectrum claims are two very different issues.

    I can see some validity to water claims. Maori were using the water, drinking it, fishing from it, long before we arrived. They have a historical basis. But the radio spectrum? Radio was developed in the late 1800′s/early 1900′s. I can’t see how Maori can seriously lay claim to something that was not in use or even known about when the Treaty was signed.

    PS if they want to lay claim to wind, they can have my wind – it’s a bit smelly, but they’re welcome to it …

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  123. nonpartisan (41 comments) says:

    The “spiritual” angle is a masterful tactic of the Maori elite isn’t it. You can pretty much lay a claim to anything under the sun and probably including the sun on this basis. It’s ironic how much the Christians get derided for their beliefs these days in our so-called secular society and yet Maori “spirituality” is taken so seriously. How do strong well reasoned arguments stack up against superstition?

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  124. Manolo (13,395 comments) says:

    Not a bad idea from the crook and venal Peters: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8526881/asset-sale-delay-pleases-maori

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  125. tom hunter (4,435 comments) says:

    But right now, it’s looking like the debt will never be repaid …

    That’s how it looks to me also. Some months ago DPF had a thread about the progress that National was making in resolving the claims arising from the Treaty of Waitangi, and positing an end to the process some time in the next decade or so. But I pointed out that these were merely the claims arising from history – there was plenty of scope for current and future claims to be made. In fact, given the endless development of “new” resources in our technological society, there is no reason to think that such claims will ever end.

    And that’s before we even consider the economic power of myriad Maori trusts and tribal authorities that have arisen from settled claims and such like. For example, in my district, there is a Maori trust that owns several thousand hectares once owned and managed by the Department of Maori Affairs. A year or so ago they wrote to me asking if I would be interested in selling my farm to them. I was rather taken aback at the direct approach (people usually wait until you’re ready to sell), but finally responded with a “no”, plus a cheeky inquiry as to whether they might consider selling some land to me! The answer was also a polite “no”, with the additional information that the Trust would never be selling any land.

    I was already sure that that would be the case but it was good to see it on paper. What this means is that – even if it takes a decade or two – the smaller family farms in the district will either be bought up by larger farms or the Maori Trust. And given that the Trust is by far the biggest boy on the block, it’s likely they will also eventually buy those larger farms. In practice what this will mean will be an end to any chance of young people moving up the ladder of contract milking to sharemilking to farm ownership. They will forever be employees – and capped ones at that, unless they’re lucky enough to marry into the local tribe. It’s all rather like the traditional feudal system in Europe and it will lead to …

    … and the only way to move on is to move out.

    Exactly. ‘Fortunately’, my kids are not interested in farming, being thoroughly urbanised now. They’ll get the qualifications, hopefully including university, and depart these shores for the chance to move on.

    I’ll stay a while longer of course, my personal and emotional ties being what they are. But they’re weakening rapidly across a whole range of areas. The things that my Dad did that seemed unique to NZ or was proud of (race relations being one glaring example), I have not followed or avoid – such as anything to do with Waitangi Day. It’s almost like living in a foreign country now, so the shift won’t require much emotional effort. It will simply be a matter of deciding how best to stay in contact with the kids, what must be done to avoid the undoubted wealth destroying or purloining that will come with a future Green-Labour government, and the timing thereof.

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  126. Pete George (22,866 comments) says:

    PS if they want to lay claim to wind, they can have my wind – it’s a bit smelly, but they’re welcome to it …

    Be careful, they may want a new take on the fart tax.

    Jokes aside, any claim has to be considered, including nutty ones – but they should be dealt with strongly.

    I’m all for water rights being examined and sorted properly so it can be put behind us, if it’s not dealt with definitively it will keep coming up, and coming up, and coming up. I accept that there is some right to resource management – that happens already. But rain royalties should be soundly rejected.

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  127. RRM (9,478 comments) says:

    If Maori have ownership of the AIR we breathe and want to collect royalties from wind electricity generators, then I wonder when Maori are going to start taking responsibility for the poor quality of their air?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/5690153/Auckland-air-pollution-worst-in-NZ

    It sounds like Ngapuhi’s filthy polluted air is killing about 700 people a year in Auckland.

    Once Ngapuhi have an income stream from wind generation, I presume Auckland Distict Health Board will be able to start invoicing Ngapuhi for medical costs incurred due to the poor quality of Ngapuhi’s air?

    Because with ownership RIGHTS come ownership RESPONSIBILITIES, right Mr Rankin?

    Right…? ;-)

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  128. nonpartisan (41 comments) says:

    David Rankin has been pretty critical of the Waitangi Tribunal water claim, so I suspect his press release is designed to highlight the stupidity of these types of claims. Well I hope so, or I could soon be paying somebody to breathe the Maori-owned air and using the Maori-owned wind to dry my washing.

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  129. RRM (9,478 comments) says:

    Nonpartisan – right, I could have misunderstood Mr Rankin’s role in all of this.

    And what about Ngapuhi’s liability for damage that their wind does to other people’s property?

    If insurers are able to invoice Ngapuhi for the costs of property damage, every time Ngapuhi’s wind gets up to storm force and starts lifting people’s roofs, blowing trees across power lines etc… imagine how much cheaper insurance premiums would be! Not to mention EQC levies!

    I think this Maori ownership of the wind business ought to be explored in much more detail. It could be a real win-win for the country once Iwi start having to meet their TREATY OBLIGATIONS :-)

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  130. Griff (6,829 comments) says:

    This Auckland air pollution blah blah blah is published periodically
    I take it with a large pile of Sodium chloride and believe that it is due to the sighting of the tests and bias of the testers more than the quantity of pollution

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  131. RRM (9,478 comments) says:

    And what about liability for building and construction costs forced upon other people by the actions of Ngapuhi’s wind?

    I haven’t done much work in Auckland but I imagine that wind forces would be the critical loading cases on the lateral bracing structure for plenty of large buildings and almost all houses up there, not earthquakes.

    If someone is trying to build a new house on their own property, and they have to get a peer review for their cladding/weathertightness, or add $30,000 worth of structural steel portal frames etc, and the reason is solely because of how hard Ngapuhi’s wind blows against the structure, who’s liable for those costs?

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  132. KiwiGreg (3,181 comments) says:

    So National’s achievements to date in this field are to nationalise Gareth Morgan’s fund management business and the Pike River Coal mine and privatise exactly nothing.

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  133. john.bt (170 comments) says:

    Unfuckingbelieveable. I just heard David Rankin on the radio saying that if Maori can claim for water they can claim for wind “plain and simple”. He sounded serious. This could be the one that will have everyone (even the pinkos) saying Enough Is Enough Now Piss Off!

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  134. graham (2,216 comments) says:

    Oh, I really hope he’s not serious.

    Because if he is, that’ll be the quickest way to make a complete balls-up of any water claims. Nobody will take anything seriously after this.

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  135. Black with a Vengeance (1,552 comments) says:

    NiggafiKKKation rocks!!!

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  136. john.bt (170 comments) says:

    And who would take the water claims seriously Graham ?

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  137. Manolo (13,395 comments) says:

    BWAV, I love your astounding command of the English language. You make your people proud, very proud.

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  138. Nostalgia-NZ (4,914 comments) says:

    tom hunter 12.35.

    Do you have any reason to believe the trust will never sell any land apart from the current guardians saying so?

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  139. chiz (1,119 comments) says:

    graham:Radio was developed in the late 1800′s/early 1900′s. I can’t see how Maori can seriously lay claim to something that was not in use or even known about when the Treaty was signed.

    Wasn’t it something to do with language promotion via the radio spectrum rather than the radio spectrum itself?

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  140. nonpartisan (41 comments) says:

    Yeah, I gave David Rankin way too much credit in my previous post. I heard him on the radio as well and he is very serious about the wind claim. He admitted he doesn’t seriously believe in sky fairies but knows that that’s the line to take with the Waitangi Tribunal if you want to have your claim validated. He admitted he’s doing it purely to stop the asset sales and says all New Zealanders should get in behind the claims. And I thought I was being overly cynical earlier.

    This brings me back full circle to my first post of the day – this country is fucked.

    Whatever the colour of your political stripe, if you campaign on burying the Treaty, you’ll get my vote.

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