Vigilantes in London

January 21st, 2013 at 2:00 pm by David Farrar

news.com.au reports:

Police launched an investigation into the group, who call themselves Muslim Patrol, after footage emerged showing the men in vigilante mode, the Daily Mail reports.

In one scene the men are heard calling white women ”naked animals with no self-respect”.

In another scene, the men snatch alcohol from people in the street saying it’s ”evil”.

The group has filmed its antics and uploaded videos on YouTube.

The most recent video was uploaded on Sunday.

Shot on a mobile phone, the latest footage shows a number of men shouting ”this is a Muslim area” towards white Britons.

Scotland Yard says it is investigating.

The Muslim Council of Britain has condemned the group.

It’s only a couple of idiots, but they do a lot of damage with such actions. I hope the Police catch and identify them. It would be wonderful if they do not have permanent residency ad can be deported. They should move to a country that does have sharia law, so they can be happy there.

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107 Responses to “Vigilantes in London”

  1. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    It was only “a couple of idiots” who tried that at Cronulla.

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  2. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    It is not “a couple of idiots”. This is a country that has officially sanctioned Sharia law. The most popular boys name in the UK is now Mohamad. Most Muslims would not condone those actions, but it is far from just a couple of idiots.

    I admire the English, but don’t like them much, so I am finding it amusing to watch them totally destroy their own culture. What amuses me less is them allow this at home while they are overseas murdering Muslim people in Muslim lands for being Muslim. They are hypocrites so I am pleased to see them reaping what they have sowed.

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  3. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Here is another “couple of idiots” (well nine actually)

    “An 11-year-old girl was branded with an ‘M’ for Mohammed on her buttocks to show she ‘belonged’ to a member of a child sex ring, the Old Bailey heard today. The child was repeatedly subjected to ‘torture sex’ sessions where she was bound and gagged before being raped by members of the gang, a jury was told. The girl is the youngest victim of nine men who allegedly hung around outside schools and care homes to recruit vulnerable victims they could use and abuse.”

    A few more “couple of idiots”

    “Islamic extremists have launched a poster campaign across the UK proclaiming areas where Sharia law enforcement zones have been set up.
    Communities have been bombarded with the posters, which read: ‘You are entering a Sharia-controlled zone – Islamic rules enforced.’

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019547/Anjem-Choudary-Islamic-extremists-set-Sharia-law-zones-UK-cities.html#ixzz2IZNZMs5w

    LONDON — Stoning for adultery. Amputations for theft. Death for apostates. And second-class status for Christians and Jews. This is life under Sharia law, the Islamic system practiced in countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Great Britain.

    Yes, Great Britain.

    There are reportedly some 85 Sharia courts now operating there, with Islamic judges ruling on cases ranging from financial to marital disputes among British Muslims.

    http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2012/November/Islamic-Sharia-Law-Comes-to-Great-Britain/

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  4. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    well – thats multiculturalism for you.

    The Poms deserve every bit of crap they get for letting all these half civilised rat bags in.

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  5. Psycho Milt (2,412 comments) says:

    It would be wonderful if they do not have permanent residency ad can be deported.

    Doubt it. People at risk of being deported have an incentive not to do that kind of thing – much more likely these particular contemptible religious loonies were born in England.

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  6. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    In one scene the men are heard calling white women ”naked animals with no self-respect”.

    I’m guessing from this that the women involved were Australian.

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  7. Peter (1,713 comments) says:

    It it were only “a couple”.

    It isn’t. This the downside of systemic multiculturalism. It works for some cultures, but not others. England, and much of Europe, got this experiment badly wrong.

    Sadly.

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  8. questions (208 comments) says:

    “Kea (1,783) Says:
    The most popular boys name in the UK is now Mohamad.”

    Worst troll ever.

    This is not evidence of some kind of invasion like you are tyring to claim, you will find (or you already know but are being dishonest) that this is because muslims parents call their male children Muhammad at a much higher rate than any other name.

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  9. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    questions:

    1. I gave the result of a yearly survey of popular names. I had no part in that survey. Look it up for yourself.

    2. I never made any suggestion of an invasion and restricted myself to the facts.

    If citing facts makes me a “troll” then so be it. You are very very wrong to think I seek the approval of people like yourself. You are willing to ignore a genuine problem, that effects peoples lives, in order to crave acceptance from the PC people you wish to identify with as peers. Your types blatant self promotion comes at the expense of others.

    Regulars will know I am not anti-Muslim (as my post clearly shows) but that does not turn shit into gold in my eyes.

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  10. Left Right and Centre (2,986 comments) says:

    That’s what you get letting in millions of ragheads.

    RIP Europe.

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  11. kowtow (8,524 comments) says:

    Thanks to “human rights” legislation and piss poor judges,there ‘s practically no chance of deportion from the UK.

    Meanwhlie,this is the “diversity dividend” that we are always beig told is the positive aspect of multiculturalism and immigration.

    Celebrate!

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  12. kowtow (8,524 comments) says:

    doh,deportation.

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  13. Manolo (13,840 comments) says:

    The vile religion of peace, Islam, is the scum of the world.
    These savages are living in the 7th century and are proud of it.

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  14. big bruv (13,934 comments) says:

    Manolo

    All religion is vile. It matters not if it is Islam or Christianity, when you have organised brainwashing this is the result.

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  15. Manolo (13,840 comments) says:

    I wouldn’t disagree with you, bb. But, Islam is the vilest and most violent of all cults.

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  16. pq (728 comments) says:

    Of course we must despise political NZFirst for its conservative approach to Immigration.
    we should welcome terrorist to change our lives ,
    we should leave our own country because they know everything,and God is on theride
    welcome London madness hell, but not in my country you Islam dog

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  17. tristanb (1,127 comments) says:

    Don’t worry the National Party will stop this happening here – I’m sure they’re not going to muck about with crap like alterations to the allowed time on learner licence, and banning redheads from using sunbeds.

    Personally, I have no problem with multiculturalism. As long as none of the “multiple cultures” are completely evil, and we’re not making specific rules and allowances for certain cultures.

    Let’s stop accepting refugees from afar – we get enough “refugees” from the Pacific as it is. Let’s remove “I have a fourth cousin in NZ” as a reason to accept useless immigrants.

    And most importantly, as soon as someone commits a crime within 5 years of being in NZ, their assets are seized to pay for their jailtime, reparations and a flight home. The whole family will go with, even if their is a death squad with their name on it – not our problem.

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  18. iMP (2,387 comments) says:

    In Mali they’ve got hold of a whole country; half of NIgeria; and 1/3 of the nations on the earth. Wake up UK.

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  19. simo (150 comments) says:

    It will turn into Call of Duty 4 in the next 25 years as they bring Afghanistan to Bromley in 3D

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  20. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Meanwhile , in New Zealand we import more muslims every day.

    Why ?

    We know from the experience of every other western country that has muslims immigrants
    that they will eventually cause problems.

    Can anyone point to any benefit to New Zealand from importing muslims ?

    Can anyone point to any benefit any western country has enjoyed from muslim immigrants ?

    Instead of importing more of them we should start paying those already here to go home.
    They are no use to us al all.

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  21. mara (788 comments) says:

    The Islam takeover in Europe will happen here. It will just take a bit longer to arrive. I really don’t worry because I’ll be dead by then . Young people should wake up, learn some history. My eyes are rolling so high at the prospect of sanity prevailing, I can see my hairline.

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  22. Bogusnews (474 comments) says:

    Winston Churchill once said: “never underestimate the power of a small group to change the world. It is the only thing that ever has.”

    While it is only “a few” Muslims that are doing this, we should never underestimate how much they can influence the broader population given the right environment.

    Think of how the Nazi’s changed Germany, the Peoples revolution in China, Rwanda and many others. History is littered where “just a few” changed a whole nation and made them do radical and terrible things they would never normally do. And a simple question: what other group has more radicals than the Mulims?

    I take no comfort that this is being done by “just a few.”

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  23. duggledog (1,559 comments) says:

    The U.K. is just a larger version of N.Z., liberally sprinkled with immigrants who emigrate to do the shit jobs that the native population (no, I don’t mean that) refuse to do because of welfare largesse or whatever reason.

    You can’t blame them for coming, you can’t stop them from coming, and you can’t blame the angry young Muslims in the U.K. – or the angry young Islanders in N.Z. – when they find out the land of milk and honey isn’t quite like Mum and Dad thought it would be.

    For Britain though, a bunch of Muslims are just the latest in a long succession of waves of migrants that will be woven into the ever changing fabric of the nation given time. Although you have to admit a little less violently than say, I don’t know, the Romans, the Vikings, the Normans, the Saxons.

    Muslims are still a tiny minority of the nation’s makeup.

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  24. mavxp (483 comments) says:

    Youtube “Ayaan Hirsi Ali” for a good critique of Islam and what is occurring in Islamic countries at the present. She lives under death threats because of what she says publicly. She is a heroine to many, myself included.

    e.g. this interview:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1lMDUvRv30

    The thing to remember is Islam is not just a religion but a political movement. It has been since it’s inception by Mohammed.

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  25. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    @maxvp – “The thing to remember is Islam is not just a religion but a political movement.”

    Correct, maxvp.

    Islam is a totalitarian ideology much more than it is a “religion”.

    Religions only concern themselves with worship and prayer. As soon as a so-called “religion” steps outside that, into the realm of government and the legal system, then it can no longer be truly called simply a religion.

    Islam is definitely an “ideology”. Religion and law are one and the same in it – they cannot be separated.

    Check out this definition of “ideology” –
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ideology

    “ideology

    1. the body of doctrine, myth, belief, etc., that guides an individual, social movement, institution, class, or large group.
    2. such a body of doctrine, myth, etc., with reference to some political and social plan, as that of fascism, along with the devices for putting it into operation. ”

    Version 2 of the definition is an almost-perfect match for Islam.

    Can it be stopped? Yes, but it would need a government with *balls*.

    Step 1 – Legally define Islam as an “ideology of hate”, not a religion.
    Step 2 – Ban all immigration of people who belong to an “ideology of hate”.
    Step 3 – Demolish all existing buildings belonging to idelogies of hate.
    Mosques, in other words.

    *Italy* is the one to follow here. They have *already* gone as far as not recognising Islam as a religion. I have no doubt at all that such foresight will pay BIG dividends for them in the future.

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  26. adam2314 (377 comments) says:

    We already have it here..

    I think it was the Liabour Muslim M.P. That demanded the removal of a cross from a Church a few years ago..

    They can all go and Fӣck them selves..

    I am not religious myself.. But for some immigrant towelhead to even dare to demand what we do or do not do is beyond the pale

    Piss of back is my best response..

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  27. the conservative (66 comments) says:

    They probably can’t get deported. Read this:

    4,000 foreign criminals including murderers and rapists we can’t throw out. . . and, yes, you can blame human rights again
    •Government wants to deport them but admits many cannot be kicked out
    •Thousands cite Human Rights Act that guarantees the ‘right to family life’
    •Parliamentary answer reveals scale of foreign criminals ‘living in the community’

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256285/4-000-foreign-criminals-including-murderers-rapists-throw–yes-blame-human-rights-again.html

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  28. adam2314 (377 comments) says:

    The Muslim Council of Britain has condemned the group.

    So that’s alright then !!..

    DPF… Do you have any idea as to the make up of the .. The Muslim Council of Britain. ??

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  29. adam2314 (377 comments) says:

    Enoch Powell was a very wise man !!

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  30. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    I spend quite a lot of time in the faithfreedom.org forums, debating about Islam there. (It’s a site dedicated to informing people about the true nature of Islam, and debating and debunking it.)

    Here is a list of sites that will be very useful for anyone who wants to find out the *truth* about Islam –

    WikiIslam –
    http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Main_Page
    This has 2500+ articles that take a critical look at Islam – based on its own sources (the Quran and Hadith). Has a link to LOTS of testimonies of apostates (those who have left Islam). Got a friend who still thinks Islam is “sweetness and light”? Show them that link.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/
    Weblog about jihad theology and ideology, correcting popular misconceptions about Islam. Very good – set up by the legendary Robert Spencer. He is THE MAN when it comes to knowledge of Islam (and criticism of it).

    http://www.islam-watch.org/
    Another Islam-critical site, set up by apostates.

    http://www.apostatesofislam.com/
    Another site set up by apostates, and another must-see site for those who think Islam is “sweetness and light”.

    http://www.actforamerica.org/
    Act for America – grassroots site set up by apostate Brigitte Gabriel to inform Americans about Islam.

    http://www.actforamerica.org/index.php/local-chapters/international-chapters
    International chapters for Act for America

    http://www.qsociety.org.au/
    The Q Society – informing Australians about Islam.

    That should do for now.

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  31. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    yep…we shoulda chased you tricky white bastards away when you first turned up on Pasifikan shores!

    turned our lands of milk and honey to coke and kfc:(

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  32. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    @adam2314 – Yes, he was!

    I encourage people to check out and bookmark the links I’ve given.
    “Knowledge is power” and all that.

    One thing I *can* say is that thuggish groups like this “Muslim Patrol” are actually *playing into the hands* of us at faithfreedom.org, and into the hands of Geert Wilders, Robert Spencer and other great people like them.

    They are showing that we **were right all along.**

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  33. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    Oops – another must-see link for you all –
    http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm
    The skeptic’s annotated Quran.

    Yep – The Quran online. It is even broken down by categories of verses –

    * Injustice
    * Intolerance
    * Cruelty and Violence
    * Absurdities
    * Good Stuff
    * Women
    * Science and History
    * Contradictions
    * Interpretations
    * Family Values
    * Sex
    * Language
    * Homosexuality
    * Prophecy

    Important note! – almost ALL of the verses labelled “good stuff” have been *abrogated* (superceded) by violent verses. So – the Quran is actually *much* more violent towards non-Muslims than it appears here.

    I have suggested to the guy maintaining the site that he should mark the abrogated verses – he agrees, so this should be done soon.

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  34. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    ooooh…lets have a race war?

    Wouldnt that be fun…

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  35. simo (150 comments) says:

    It is fundamental obvious that in this “multicultural” society of ours, each ethnic group sticks together and extracts what they can for their group. Where’s the ethnic diversity if one lot burns their women if they try to marry outside their ethnic group. It will boil down to who has the biggest population of their ethnic group and who can marshal the food and water resources for themselves that will populate the country. Chalky whiteys with liberal use of abortions and contraception will not win the day here, along with small family sizes. The PI’s, the Asians, and the Muslims will run this country one day it’s just a matter of time. I really can’t see our kids (15-20 years old) being to bothered at all. They are faced with having to fight to retain what we (50+) take forgranted…..and they wont have the numbers to do this.

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  36. adam2314 (377 comments) says:

    pollywog (902) Says:

    January 21st, 2013 at 10:05 pm
    yep…we shoulda chased you tricky white bastards away when you first turned up on Pasifikan shores!

    turned our lands of milk and honey to coke and kfc:(

    Come on man … you tried to chase us tricky ( skinny ) white bastards away..

    Your beautiful wahines made us stay.. :-))

    They knew what a good one was :-))

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  37. Ryan Sproull (7,205 comments) says:

    I think it was the Liabour Muslim M.P. That demanded the removal of a cross from a Church a few years ago..

    adam2314,

    You think? Or you dreamt? There’s a fairly important difference.

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  38. adam2314 (377 comments) says:

    @ simo.

    .
    January 21st, 2013 at 10:17 pm
    It is fundamental obvious that in this “multicultural” society of ours, each ethnic group sticks together and extracts what they can for their group. Where’s the ethnic diversity if one lot burns their women if they try to marry outside their ethnic group. It will boil down to who has the biggest population of their ethnic group and who can marshal the food and water resources for themselves that will populate the country. Chalky whiteys with liberal use of abortions and contraception will not win the day here, along with small family sizes. The PI’s, the Asians, and the Muslims will run this country one day it’s just a matter of time. I really can’t see our kids (15-20 years old) being to bothered at all. They are faced with having to fight to retain what we (50+) take forgranted…..and they wont have the numbers to do this.

    Correct…

    The answer is … What are you doing about it ???

    Easy to bleat.. Hard to put your head up.. Eh !!..

    Do something my friend before it is to late for your children !!..

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  39. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    oh right adam2314…the beautiful wahines forcibly taken on board whaling ships and raped or the ones whose villages were burnt, husbands killed and lands stolen?

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  40. simo (150 comments) says:

    adam2314 – Our family arrived here from the Balkans in 1894 to escape centuries of religious wars and atrocities. The very ethnic group they were fighting against has now arrived here. It starts all over again, or is there another way….Are these ethnic groups arriving here over a 110 years later with prosperity in their hearts, I think not. Its survival as they no doubt have arrived here with the same mindset as the 1894 immigrant, but are supported by us to thrive and don’t really have to struggle too hard to attain betterment. However, they do arrive here with the seeds of our destruction buried deep in their subconscious… they know how to do this, and they have seen it done in the country they came from.

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  41. tristanb (1,127 comments) says:

    yep…we shoulda chased you tricky white bastards away when you first turned up on Pasifikan shores!

    Shoulda, coulda, woulda. Why didn’t you? Now you’re stuck with us. But at least we’re happy to let our government constantly apologise to you, we give you special privileges, and we are trained throughout our schooling that we owe you everything.

    You don’t want to make the same mistake again!

    Here’s something from Australia:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/8204617/Court-says-no-to-ventilator-for-baby
    “The nine-month-old baby, known only as Mohammed, is severely brain-damaged, deaf and blind.”
    (No surprises for guessing why certain groups tend to have more frequent serious birth defects.)

    Let it nature take a course, you say? Not these parents. They want to keep the poor mass of organs hooked up to machines to keep it alive for a bit longer.

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  42. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    I wouldn’t disagree with you, bb. But, Islam is the vilest and most violent of all cults.

    This is BS. To borrow a phrase: “Religions aren’t violent; people are violent”. You can take any significant religion and its holy texts and you will find that professed believers interpret those texts to suit themselves whilst at the same time maintaining that only they have the correct interpretation.

    One might as well complain that Christianity is a vile death cult. There’s plenty of ammunition in the Bible for those who want to make such a claim, but it would be pointless, since believers don’t really care what it actually says, but about what they think it says, and the latter is usually more revealing of their existing desires than anything in the Bible. We’re talking about a book that people have taken to promote either peace or war, liberty or submission, abstinence or radical promiscuity, etc.

    Everyone wants to dress up their parochial concerns in the language of universal command. It’s the human way. Muslims are in that respect no different from the rest of us Yahoos.

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  43. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    i think the guns had something to do with it tristanb?…talk is cheap…we’re gonna breed the white outta ya:)

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  44. Manolo (13,840 comments) says:

    The thing to remember is Islam is not just a religion but a political criminal movement.

    Fair description.

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  45. graham (2,335 comments) says:

    * sigh *.

    Big Bruv once again shows his irrational fear of all and any religion. I can’t speak for other religions, but the Christianity I believe in is emphatically *not* “organised brainwashing”. As I have said previously, my step-daughter was raised going to church, and she chose in her late teens to turn away from it. Nobody has forced her to return, nobody has denounced her in ringing proclamations, and she is still welcome in my house.

    A priest in the Anglican church that I have a lot of respect for has four children. One of them turned his back on the church early on and, so far as I know, has never returned to the church again. He is still just as much that priest’s child as the other three children, loved and welcomed and cared for.

    I know another priest whose only child has walked away from the church. Big Bruv may be surprised to learn that this priest and his wife have NOT stood up in church and denounced him, they have NOT turned their backs on him, they have NOT moved to another house or changed the locks or sent him a letter informing him to never darken their doors again. Just like any normal parents – for that is what they are – they love and care for him regardless.

    But don’t let facts or real life get in the way of your prejudices there, BB.

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  46. Paulus (2,633 comments) says:

    The birthrate of muslim children in Britain is actually 8 times that of the non muslim.
    By 2050 over half the population of Britain will be muslim.
    Muslim girls, from menstruation onwards, are considere breeding cows only, to continue to perpetuate the muslim species, and follow Sharia subjucation laws.
    There are many areas in Britain where Sharia law is perpetuated openly, with the tacit approval of the Judiciary and Parliament.

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  47. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    wouldn’t a ‘pasifican’ like pollywog be a lot happier if he/she buggered off back to the pasifican nirvana
    that he/she came from ?

    Actually if he/she emmigrated back home we would all be happier.

    Time for another ‘voyage of bullshit ‘ pollywog.
    This time don’t come back.

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  48. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    i am where im from. it appears you need reminding of where you are bereal.

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  49. tristanb (1,127 comments) says:

    i think the guns had something to do with it tristanb?…talk is cheap…we’re gonna breed the white outta ya:)

    Well, from the Maori girls I’ve met out in town, it wouldn’t surprise me. And if they’ve got athletic bodies, don’t smoke or do drugs, don’t have any kids, have good skin and good jobs, then bring it on.

    You can’t actually breed the white out of someone. And you can’t breed it out of a population either. In fact, the average Maori is probably lighter skinned than they were 30 years ago, and they would have been even darker 100 years ago. It’s more that Maori are breeding more European into themselves.

    None of that makes too much difference. It’s not the race that causes problems, it’s the culture prevalent in that race. That’s one of the reasons I’m not a racist – there’s far too many shit people of European (and every other) descent in this world for anyone to be racist.

    You should get your DNA checked to see how much European is in you. It’s only about $US170 (including postage to NZ) from 23andMe.com, plus it tells you a whole lot more. I think you’d be surprised at how white you are.

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  50. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    @Tom Jackson – This is BS.

    No it’s NOT, Tom. Read the annotated Quran that I’ve given the link to. See for yourself the dozens of verses commanding violence against non-Muslims, and remember that the verses there that DO look “peaceful” have almost ALL been abrogated and replaced by violent ones.

    How much do you know about islam, Tom? Did you know that Mohammad ordered an old lady to be tied to two camels and ripped in two? ***This is the guy that Muslims are supposed to EMULATE!*** Wake up, man!

    If you don’t know anything, then you are hardly in a position to comment about it.
    I *do* know a *heap* about it, and none of it is good.

    Read the *apostate* sites, Tom. If you don’t believe me, then you should believe them. They have *been there*.

    I am *sick and tired* of seeing ignorant people who know NOTHING about islam say that “Islam is just the same as other religions”. ***IT IS NOT!!!*** It is a violent and barbaric death-cult.

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  51. Manolo (13,840 comments) says:

    Muslims are in that respect no different from the rest of us Yahoos.

    Speak for yourself, Tom.
    Dhimmitude will not save you once the savages get to you.

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  52. Ryan Sproull (7,205 comments) says:

    I am *sick and tired* of seeing ignorant people who know NOTHING about islam say that “Islam is just the same as other religions”. ***IT IS NOT!!!*** It is a violent and barbaric death-cult.

    Over a billion people on earth are Muslim. There is a significant amount of variety among them as to how they interpret, apply and follow their religion. I think it’s oversimplifying things to talk about all that variety as if it’s a single monolithic entity.

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  53. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    That’s right, Manolo.

    **Never let it be forgotten that Islam supported the Nazis in WWII.**

    The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was a very good friend of Hitler, and there are a number of photos of him with Hitler.

    This site goes into this in detail –
    http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/

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  54. cha (4,036 comments) says:

    There are a number of photos of him with Hitler.

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  55. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    How about we leave the Muslims alone in their own lands and protect our values at home ?. There is a novel idea ! Someone pass that onto Obama the bomber.

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  56. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    @Ryan Sproull – “I think it’s oversimplifying things to talk about all that variety as if it’s a single monolithic entity.”

    Ahh, but how someone interprets the religion does not change the basic fact that the *religion itself is evil.*
    It’s all there in the Quran. I have posted the link to it – I suggest you read that (and look at the other links I’ve posted too.)

    You would be amazed, Ryan, to find out how many Muslims know *next to nothing* about their own religion!
    The percentage is HUGE.
    I have read testimony after testimony in which apostates say “I didn’t know this about Mohammad. We were not told this.”

    The jihadists DO know their religion. They follow Islam **to the letter**, and if you read the Quran, you will KNOW that.

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  57. Lance (2,662 comments) says:

    Certainly old Ahmadinejad isn’t too averse to a bit of holocaust denial

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  58. cha (4,036 comments) says:

    You would be amazed, Ryan, to find out how many Muslims know *next to nothing* about their own religion.

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  59. Ryan Sproull (7,205 comments) says:

    Ahh, but how someone interprets the religion does not change the basic fact that the *religion itself is evil.*
    It’s all there in the Quran. I have posted the link to it – I suggest you read that (and look at the other links I’ve posted too.)

    You would be amazed, Ryan, to find out how many Muslims know *next to nothing* about their own religion!
    The percentage is HUGE.
    I have read testimony after testimony in which apostates say “I didn’t know this about Mohammad. We were not told this.”

    The jihadists DO know their religion. They follow Islam **to the letter**, and if you read the Quran, you will KNOW that.

    Jihadists may follow your interpretation of Islam to the letter. Others follow their interpretations of it, which can be quite different. There are plenty of ex-Christians who say, “I never knew the Bible included God ordering the slaughter of infants,” for example. But there are also plenty of current Christians who say, “Yes, God ordered the slaughter of infants, but that was what was necessary at the time and it would be wrong to do today.”

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  60. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    when a part the koran is quoted to explain the evil of islam the most pathetic rebuttal that can be raised
    has to be,
    ‘Yeah, but look what the Bible says about..blah, blah, blah..”

    Right Ryan ?

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  61. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    @Ryan Sproull – “Jihadists may follow your interpretation of Islam to the letter”.

    Indeed, and *who sets the agenda?* The jihadists.
    The Muslims who are not jihadists either do nothing to stop them, or they tacitly approve of them.

    I read a comment somewhere by a German in wartime Germany, and he said that “one moment, the Nazis were a minority, and before we knew it, they were in control.”

    The West is woefully unprepared to be able to fend off Islam. Brussels, for example, is already 25% Muslim. Is that “good”?
    I suggest that no, it is not. Do we want that here? You might, but I (and many others) don’t.

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  62. Lance (2,662 comments) says:

    This is kinda karma I guess?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10860661

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  63. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    Interesting article, Lance :)

    Anyway – all I can do is what I’ve done, which is to let people know of a number of *really good* websites that tell you all about islam. People can then read those and make up their own minds.

    It is impossible to actually ask a Muslim about Islam. They will *lie* about it. This is called “taqiyya”.
    They will show you a “peaceful-looking” verse in the Quran, and people will not know that that verse has almost certainly been abrogated (superceded) by a more violent one. If you ask whether the verse has been abrogated, they will lie.

    For Muslims, lying about islam is not only allowed, it is encouraged, because it helps to further the spread of Islam.

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  64. gump (1,650 comments) says:

    Good grief.

    I feel as though I’m reading the comment section of the Daily Mail.

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  65. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    white in the context of using it here isnt a colour tristanb…its an attitude.

    and pasifikan in the same context isnt a percentage game…its a choice

    feel it in the one drop!

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  66. Ryan Sproull (7,205 comments) says:

    when a part the koran is quoted to explain the evil of islam the most pathetic rebuttal that can be raised
    has to be,
    ‘Yeah, but look what the Bible says about..blah, blah, blah..”

    Right Ryan ?

    I was explaining about how things can be interpreted differently by different people, bereal. I’ll type more slowly if you’re having trouble keeping up.

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  67. Ryan Sproull (7,205 comments) says:

    Indeed, and *who sets the agenda?* The jihadists.
    The Muslims who are not jihadists either do nothing to stop them, or they tacitly approve of them.

    Again, what are Christians who are not KKK members doing to stop the KKK? Or do they tacitly approve of them?

    I read a comment somewhere by a German in wartime Germany, and he said that “one moment, the Nazis were a minority, and before we knew it, they were in control.”

    I’m sure treating all non-Nazi Germans as if they supported Nazism would have nipped that right in the bud.

    The West is woefully unprepared to be able to fend off Islam. Brussels, for example, is already 25% Muslim. Is that “good”?
    I suggest that no, it is not. Do we want that here? You might, but I (and many others) don’t.

    It’s none of anyone’s business what another person’s religion is, so long as they are not encroaching on those same liberties of other people. If 25% of a democratic society is Muslim, that is neither good nor bad. It’s just what those people are. What I want in New Zealand is for people to be able to follow whatever religion they find compelling (again, so long as they are not encroaching on that same liberty for other people).

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  68. tristanb (1,127 comments) says:

    white in the context of using it here isnt a colour tristanb…its an attitude.

    Personal responsibility and hard work? (Albeit less than some other groups)

    Why do you label an attitude with a colour used to describe a certain people? Are you some sort of racist or something?

    And do you hate Maori and Polynesians who adopt the “white attitude” of living? Or do you just hate them because they will often become successful if they do this?

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  69. Lance (2,662 comments) says:

    @Ryan
    You have completely missed the entire point.

    These shit’s didn’t just act as complete turds. They did it in the name of Islam.

    Considering the number of KKK vs the number of Jihadists, I suspect your argument is drivel.

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  70. RRM (9,933 comments) says:

    I reckon there’s about a 30% chance we’ll see a large-scale expulsion of Muslims from Europe / GB within my lifetime.

    Hopefully without death camps.

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  71. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Lance, of course Ryans argument is drivel. Total drivel.

    eg, ‘if 25% of a democratic society is muslim, that is neither good or bad.’ (not only drivel, but with respect
    Ryan, ignorant also.)
    Ryan is unwilling or unable to understand that unlike any other immigrants into any western
    society, way before they represent anything like 25%, muslims will be working to change the host
    society to adopt sharia. They will not accept the values of their hosts.

    islam is the only religion which embraces the tenent that infidels must submit to islam or die.

    Spot the difference Ryan ?

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  72. Ryan Sproull (7,205 comments) says:

    You have completely missed the entire point.

    These shit’s didn’t just act as complete turds. They did it in the name of Islam.

    Considering the number of KKK vs the number of Jihadists, I suspect your argument is drivel.

    The proportions for the population aren’t that different. And even if it didn’t, my point remains.

    Imagine that you’re a Christian. If someone told you that you weren’t doing enough to denounce the KKK, what would you say? Would you see it as a call to action to get out there and do more to stop the KKK? Or would you think the person was an idiot for thinking that just because you’re Christian, your default position is supporting the KKK and the onus was on you to prove otherwise?

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  73. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    @Ryan Sproull – “…so long as they are not encroaching on that same liberty for other people).”.

    Excellent! You have hit the very core of the problem. Well done!

    Muslims DO “encroach on other people’s liberties”. That is *exactly* what the story is about. *That* is the problem.
    How many vigilante Buddhist groups do you know of? Vigilante Hindu groups, Jewish groups? None.

    Do you know of any Buddhist / Jewish / Hindu ghettoes in Western cities that locals should stay away from? I’ll be surprised if you can find any.

    It is ONLY the Muslims who come into a country and create problems for everyone else.

    The *Italians* have it right. They do not recognise Islam as a “religion”. That stance will pay off *big-time* for them.
    It means that they can easily enact laws that define Islam as an “ideology of hate”, which is exactly what it is.

    I suggest that you try going into Malmo in Sweden (or any one of the large Muslim no-go areas in the UK – Tower Hamlets in London, say) and see if the local Muslims enjoy your presence there.

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  74. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    One other fact that Ryan may care to consider.

    There is no such thing as a democratic muslim state anywhere on earth, and there will not be one, ever.

    This is because democracy and islam are two totally alien concepts.

    Think of it like oil and water Ryan.

    When muslims do become the majority in any western state that state will ceace to be democratic.

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  75. Ryan Sproull (7,205 comments) says:

    eg, ‘if 25% of a democratic society is muslim, that is neither good or bad.’ (not only drivel, but with respect
    Ryan, ignorant also.)
    Ryan is unwilling or unable to understand that unlike any other immigrants into any western
    society, way before they represent anything like 25%, muslims will be working to change the host
    society to adopt sharia. They will not accept the values of their hosts.

    islam is the only religion which embraces the tenent that infidels must submit to islam or die.

    Tenent. Okay.

    You have not given me any good reason to believe that Muslim Kiwis who are perfectly happy with living in a liberal democracy with freedom of religion are going to suddenly hate it here the moment a certain number of other Muslims are in the country, if such a thing happened. The only reasons you’ve provided are a vague sense that Muslims aren’t quite human and the security and prosperity that make humans peaceful and happy don’t apply to them, or the suggestion that you know their religion better than they do and once someone gets a chance to tell them all about it there’ll suddenly be a violent uprising.

    I have known and been friends with plenty of Muslims in New Zealand. They like it here. They don’t want it to be like countries where a strict interpretation of Sharia law is imposed on everyone.

    Are you claiming that, despite never having met them, you know these guys and girls better than I do? You can see why I’d have trouble accepting you as an authority on that matter.

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  76. Ryan Sproull (7,205 comments) says:

    Excellent! You have hit the very core of the problem. Well done!

    Muslims DO “encroach on other people’s liberties”. That is *exactly* what the story is about. *That* is the problem.
    How many vigilante Buddhist groups do you know of? Vigilante Hindu groups, Jewish groups? None.

    None? Well, some. Ultra-Orthodox Spread Fear in Jerusalem. EXACTLY the same thing. Are you going to worry about the New Zealand Jewish population getting out of control now too?

    You can’t say “Muslims DO encroach on other people’s liberties” any more than you can say “Jews DO encroach on other people’s liberties” just because a tiny mad minority of either group happens to do so. Sweeping statements about a population of one billion people are really hard to make. “Muslims do have cardiovascular systems.” There, that one works. But others, not so easy.

    Do you know of any Buddhist / Jewish / Hindu ghettoes in Western cities that locals should stay away from? I’ll be surprised if you can find any.

    It is ONLY the Muslims who come into a country and create problems for everyone else.

    Obviously that is not the case. And the overwhelming majority of Muslim immigrants to New Zealand have made no problems whatsoever. It’s just not fair on them for you to tar them with the brush of the actions of some nutters in the UK.

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  77. Ryan Sproull (7,205 comments) says:

    One other fact that Ryan may care to consider.

    There is no such thing as a democratic muslim state anywhere on earth, and there will not be one, ever.

    This is because democracy and islam are two totally alien concepts.

    Think of it like oil and water Ryan.

    When muslims do become the majority in any western state that state will ceace to be democratic.

    With such unfounded blind faith in absolutist statements like those, bereal, I’m beginning to think maybe you might be able to sympathise much better with an extremist religious viewpoint than I’d given you credit for.

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  78. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    You know **NOTHING** about Islam, Ryan. You are in NO position to comment about something that you know NOTHING about.

    I know more about Islam than you and 99 percent of Muslims.

    But hey – feel free to encourage tens of thousands of Muslims to come here. When they do, I will point them towards your house, and then you will be able to see that I was tellign the truth.

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  79. Ryan Sproull (7,205 comments) says:

    You know **NOTHING** about Islam, Ryan. You are in NO position to comment about something that you know NOTHING about.

    Capital letters don’t make you any more right, you know.

    I know more about Islam than you and 99 percent of Muslims.

    Just sit and think about that statement for a bit. You know more about Islam than 99% of Muslims. So clearly what you know so much about is not the kind of Islam practised by 99% of Muslims, or the way that Islam is practised by 99% of Muslims. I mean, it sounds like you’re almost frustrated that only one in a hundred Muslims follows the nasty kind of Islam you’re such an expert in.

    But hey – feel free to encourage tens of thousands of Muslims to come here. When they do, I will point them towards your house, and then you will be able to see that I was tellign the truth.

    THEM: *knock knock*
    ME: Hello?
    THEM: Hey. That guy over there said to see you.
    ME: Okay… Did he say what about?
    THEM: Well, he reckoned that Islam means we have to murder you.
    ME: Okay. Is that what you reckon?
    THEM: Well, no, but he assured us that knows better than we do.
    ME: And do you want to murder me?
    THEM: No, not at all, but he had all of these websites and stuff…

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  80. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    Dear Ryan –

    Are you of the opinion that when an apostate from islam says that it is a religion of hate, they are lying?

    Yes or no?

    And if almost all of them say that, are they all lying?

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  81. Ryan Sproull (7,205 comments) says:

    Are you of the opinion that when an apostate from islam says that it is a religion of hate, they are lying?

    Yes or no?

    And if almost all of them say that, are they all lying?

    I doubt they’re lying. But again, that’s what many apostates from Christianity say too. I take them all on a case by case basis. There are certainly some places where Islam is practised as a hateful, horrible thing. And they’re generally the places where even saying “apostate from Islam” makes any sense. In New Zealand, Muslims who stop being Muslim tend to just shrug it off, unless they convert to a new religion that tells them that other religions are evil, etc.

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  82. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    Excellent! Well done, Ryan!

    I will now leave you (and everyone else) in peace, to browse the links that I provided earlier on.

    Cheers….. :)

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  83. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    sucessful at being white for someone who isnt, isnt really succeeding…its selling out IMHO tristanb

    and i dont hate them for it i just dont respect them much

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  84. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Ryan.
    i give up trying to bring you up to speed regarding muslim immigration.
    Your just too nice a bloke and not suspicious enough.
    i trust you would not take offence if i referred to you as the Neville Chamberlain of kiwiblog
    as far as islam goes.
    This link is quite long but when you have a little time you may find it of interest.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101.html

    As you have so many muslim friends you may find the islamic concept of taqiyya of interest.

    i would be interested in any comment you may care to make if you do find the time to read it.

    Finally, do you dissagree with the statement that it is impossible for a muslim state to be a democracy ?

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  85. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    pollywog
    as you feel that white is an attitude and people who aspire to succeed are selling out
    can we infer that you would prefer to live in the stone age ?

    Also, is it not a little dishonest of you, as a self declared blue arsed islander to pretend to be Maori when it
    suits your argument ?

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  86. Ryan Sproull (7,205 comments) says:

    As you have so many muslim friends you may find the islamic concept of taqiyya of interest.

    I’m aware of the concept of taqiyya. It’s more like Freemasons wearing forget-me-nots in Nazi Germany rather than squares and compasses, so avoid identification and persecution. To think that Western Muslims are all genius sleeper agents for a revolution is extremely paranoid, and I can see how that would prevent any kind of meaningful friendship with a Muslim.

    Finally, do you dissagree with the statement that it is impossible for a muslim state to be a democracy ?

    I don’t disagree with that statement. I also agree with the statements that it is impossible for a Jewish state, a Christian state, a Buddhist state, a HIndu state or any other kind of religious state to be a liberal democracy. Liberal democracy and the imposition or even preference of one religion over another (or the imposition of a lack of religion) are incompatible.

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  87. Ryan Sproull (7,205 comments) says:

    Which is a fairly important point, I think. The moment a liberal democratic state starts barring entry on the basis of religious belief, or starts trying to dissuade people from following a particular religion, or starts treating people of a religion in a particular way due to the actions of other people who share that religion, or starts treating individuals of a particular religion as if they have committed crimes that they have not, that state ceases to be a liberal democracy.

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  88. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    One thing that is often forgotten in these discussions, is that many people are only culturally Muslim. They may follow certain Islamic rituals and identify as Muslim, but do not have a literal belief in the Quran. This applies equally to other followings. I am sure most Catholics do not take the bible as a literal truth, for example. They may be atheist or have a vaguely defined concept of some higher power.

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  89. Ryan Sproull (7,205 comments) says:

    True, Kea, though Catholics have the advantage of the official Church hierarchy saying that the Bible’s not to be taken entirely literally :)

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  90. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    I apologise for going “off the handle” a couple of times in this discussion.

    What I wanted to say is that I’m saying exactly the same things as the apostates do. “Islam is dangerous – beware”.
    ( And yes, I’m well aware that most Muslims are not jihadists, but I’m talking about the *religion* here. )

    I would trust the word of an apostate over the word of a Muslim *any day*.
    I would trust apostates with *anything*.

    There are some *excellent* and very intelligent apostates saying this too.
    People like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Ali Sina (the guy who founded faithfreedom.org) and many others.
    All of them will back up the warnings about Islam given by Geert Wilders.
    When it comes to Islam, they’ve “been there, done that”, and for that reason they are worth listening to.

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  91. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Ryan
    this is now going round and around and is starting to get to be as boring as the never ending facts
    that each side offer to try and win the argument on global warming. But.

    Re your effort at 4.11
    Why not K.I.S.S. and drop the prefix liberal before democracy.
    ( By the way, what do you believe is the difference between a democracy and a liberal democracy ?)
    All the religions you mention are tolerant. (Jewish, Christian, Buddist, Hindu)

    What i am trying to get through to you Ryan is the uniqueness of islam.
    islam is totally intollerant of other religions and is also the only one which is also a political movement.
    This is the fundamental that you cannot or will not grasp.

    To help you, please read the section on sharia in the link, islam 101 which i posted for you above.
    The penny may drop for you then.
    Then you might realise that your argument @4.11 is silly.

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  92. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    think about what it means to succeed bereal…aspiring to have all the consumer goodies and overseas hoilidays to the detriment of what?

    and im not pretending to be maori. i just refuse to make the distinction between maori and other blue arsed islanders given were all in the same boat.

    much as i dont make much of a distinction between european peoples or africans or asians for that matter. Most are culturally indistinct.

    fuck your divide and conquer colonial bullshit.

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  93. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    @bereal – “islam is totally intolerant of other religions and is also the only one which is also a political movement.”

    Yep – that’s right, and any apostate would confirm this.

    Here’s a very good definition of “ideology” –
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ideology

    1. “the body of doctrine, myth, belief, etc., that guides an individual, social movement, institution, class, or large group.
    2. such a body of doctrine, myth, etc., with reference to some political and social plan, as that of fascism, along with the devices for putting it into operation. ”

    Definition 2 is an almost-perfect match for Islam.

    “Religions” concern themselves with worship.
    As soon as they step outside that realm, and into the area of government and the legal system, they can no longer claim to be merely a “religion”.
    They are then an *ideology*. This is the case with Islam.

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  94. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Wow, what a fucked up definition of success pollywog.
    Doubtless, with such a huge racial chip on your shoulder you feel that the answer to your question
    in your mind is, to the detrriment of pollywog and other losers of pollywogs ilk.

    You’r a bullshit artist too. You do try to imply that you are Maori when you think it may help your argument.

    What a sensitive racially centered petal you are. So hard done by by history and life.

    i’m not trying to divide and rule sweetie. No need.
    i doubt many Maori would align themselves with your racist dogma
    however much you try to involve them.

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  95. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    bereal, Islam has its faults, as you have helpfully pointed out to readers. Most of the tyranny is internal and none of our business. We can think what we like and they can do the same. No problem.

    The trouble making Muslims, in the West, are invited guests taking advantage of opportunities offered by us.

    Muslim armies are not occupying christian countries and killing many thousands to advance their cause. Unlike the thousands of Obama’s troops invading, bombing, torturing and murdering their way through Islamic nations in our name.

    I nearly choked on my coffee this morning when I heard Obama say we are entering a time of peace after a decade of war ! He just announced putting troops into an extra 35 Muslims countries this year. In addition to all the wars and military actions already under way. I doubt any President has had that many countries occupied, even during WWII. Watch what he does this year, then tell me how awful the Muslims are !

    Every one of Obama’s supporters has blood on their hands and “if” they had any decency they would be weeping in shame. But they don’t, because they do not.

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  96. Manolo (13,840 comments) says:

    much as i dont make much of a distinction between european peoples or africans or asians for that matter. Most are culturally indistinct.

    Really?
    The author of the above statement lives in a faraway galaxy. The poor guy doesn’t know a think about human history.

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  97. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Spot on thor42 @ 5.53
    And this is why it would be fine, logical and righteous for a democracy to restrict muslim immigration in the same
    way that would be fine and logical to restrict immigrants who, say, declare themselves as anarcists
    or Nazis or white supremicists, we don’t want them either.

    Hope our mate Ryan is still reading.

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  98. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    whats your definition of a succesful Maori bereal ?…Hekia Parata, Tariana Turia?

    actually, whats your defintion of success?

    and im sure your attitude towards africans, asians, arabs, euros or pasifikans depends entirely on the actual country that issued their passport eh manolo?…*cough* bullshit *cough*…splutter…

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  99. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    i dont make much of a distinction between european peoples or africans or asians for that matter. Most are culturally indistinct.

    I agree. Yes indeed.

    So please explain the next comment: “fuck your divide and conquer colonial bullshit.”

    Is “colonial” a race or a culture… in your world ?

    Given how “indistinct” you claim we are, then why do keep playing the race card and why do you feel so shit about being born a darkie ?

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  100. Manolo (13,840 comments) says:

    Life must be hell for you, polly. You carry a huge inferiority complex for being born of a dark complexion.

    Get above your trauma: skin colour does not matter. The real difference is your education and what you have between your ears.

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  101. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    Manolo – I contend that the real difference is attitude. Being hopeful, positive, helpful, diligent and generous are key ingredients to being fulfilled. Education and skin colour aren’t relevant.

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  102. Ryan Sproull (7,205 comments) says:

    I apologise for going “off the handle” a couple of times in this discussion.

    Me too, Thor. I was a sarky little bitch a couple of times today. I’m sorry about that. Old habits, bad habits, etc.

    What I wanted to say is that I’m saying exactly the same things as the apostates do. “Islam is dangerous – beware”.
    ( And yes, I’m well aware that most Muslims are not jihadists, but I’m talking about the *religion* here. )

    I would trust the word of an apostate over the word of a Muslim *any day*.
    I would trust apostates with *anything*.

    I think my issue here is… I have two issues with this.

    Firstly, anyone who’s come from a cultural/religious/political situation where someone could consider themselves an “apostate” of Islam, they’re immediately obviously coming from one of those bad situations where Islam is used as a support for or an excuse for oppression. I recognise those exist, but to tar every Muslim in the world with the brush of those places is unfair.

    Secondly, a lot (not all) of apostates from Islam are converts to another religion, often Christianity, where they have a newly vested personal interest in denouncing Islam. An ex-Islamic Christian convert is never going to say something lovely about Islam, and they’re going to have a vested interest in using their position as an apostate to denounce what they now believe to be perhaps Satanic, or at least terribly misled.

    Those are the main problems I have with using ex-members of a religion as the core of your evaluation of that religion.

    There are some *excellent* and very intelligent apostates saying this too.
    People like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Ali Sina (the guy who founded faithfreedom.org) and many others.
    All of them will back up the warnings about Islam given by Geert Wilders.
    When it comes to Islam, they’ve “been there, done that”, and for that reason they are worth listening to.

    Yes, but while remembering the context of those testimonies.

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  103. Ryan Sproull (7,205 comments) says:

    this is now going round and around and is starting to get to be as boring as the never ending facts
    that each side offer to try and win the argument on global warming. But.

    Re your effort at 4.11
    Why not K.I.S.S. and drop the prefix liberal before democracy.
    ( By the way, what do you believe is the difference between a democracy and a liberal democracy ?)
    All the religions you mention are tolerant. (Jewish, Christian, Buddist, Hindu)

    What i am trying to get through to you Ryan is the uniqueness of islam.
    islam is totally intollerant of other religions and is also the only one which is also a political movement.
    This is the fundamental that you cannot or will not grasp.

    To help you, please read the section on sharia in the link, islam 101 which i posted for you above.
    The penny may drop for you then.
    Then you might realise that your argument @4.11 is silly.

    I was being specific about my use of the word “democracy”. One could claim that a democracy consisting entirely of Buddhists, for example, would have Buddhist beliefs and values imposed via the machinery of the State. I used the term “liberal democracy” deliberately because I believe that’s what we have here in New Zealand, where not only are we “democratic” – representative of the views of the people – but we are also “liberal” in that we value freedoms of expression, religion, etc., that might not be valued in another state that could vaguely claim the title “democracy”.

    I know you’re trying to claim that Islam is unique in its incompatibility with democracy. What I am saying to you is that all religions are incompatible with democracy when they seek to impose themselves on other people. There is no such thing as an Islamic democracy, just as there is no such thing as a Jewish democracy, a Christian democracy, a Buddhist democracy, or any other kind of religious democracy.

    There are plenty of Muslims who live their lives, support their families, pray, live, eat, worship as Muslims, within democratic societies that both protect their right to do so and protect others’ right to do the same with their own religion. The fact that “Islamic democracy” is a contradiction in terms is not a huge revelation, as any kind of “religious democracy” is a contradiction in terms.

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  104. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Soem commenters here have made sweeping assumptions about the nature of Islam and the nature of Islamic nations. Ryan’s talk about a ‘liberal’ democracy as opposed to democracy made me reflect on some of the liberal traits in Islam with respect to tolerance. Some would seem to assume that every Islamic society is as intolerant of difference as Afghanistan under the Taliban or Iran under the Revolutionary Guards. But there have been sizeable minority religions tolerated in every Islamic state for hundreds of years. I’m wondering what factors have led to a such a sustained rise of intolerance by more extreme Islamic regimes in the last few decades.

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  105. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    haha…for the record

    i dont feel shit about being of mixed ethnic background. i embrace it and feel empowered by it.

    and i play the cards im dealt

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  106. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    and i play the cards im dealt

    Race cards ?

    You can do better. Try harder.

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  107. pollywog (1,153 comments) says:

    haha kea…dont know why you should expect me to be better than the plethora of cracka asses playing out their eurocentric culturally biased “race” cards in here

    but yes i will try harder:)

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