Condemning anti-Jewish racism

May 2nd, 2013 at 4:00 pm by David Farrar

Not afraid of ruins blogs:

Last Saturday I went to the protest against asset sales organized by Aotearoa Not For Sale. I was marching with my friend Maia, discussing the latest episode of The Good Wife in between chants of ‘hey hey ho ho/John Key has got to go’.

Halfway up Willis St we overheard a guy behind us talking: ‘This is all because John Key is a money-hungry Jew.’ Maia immediately turned around and told him that he was being anti-Semitic and that it wasn’t ok (she’s great like that). The guy explained that she didn’t understand the historical context, that ‘they took over this country with their money’, before finally giving up and telling her ‘you must be Jewish’ (incidentally, she isn’t. Not that it’s relevant’).

By that point I’d already walked away. I was in no mood to hear about how I control the world’s money and am personally responsible for the economic recession.

This wasn’t the first time that anti-Jewish has cropped up at Aotearoa Not For Sale events. Last year a guy named Nathan Symington joined an anti-asset sales march in Auckland holding a skateboard with swastikas chalked on it. The same man was later charged with the racist vandalism of the Symonds St Jewish cemetery.

Now you can’t control who turns up to a protest march, but a good point is made by the author:

There were similar instances of anti-Jewish racism at Occupy spaces in 2011, and on the facebook pages of several of the Occupy groups as well. …

Aotearoa Not For Sale organisers can’t be held personally responsible for the actions of every single person who attends one of their protests. But they do need to take responsibility for ensuring that racism isn’t tolerated—or worse, nurtured.

One way to do that is to stop the nationalist rhetoric. Campaigns against privatization have a nasty habit of appealing to populist nationalism, because it’s an easy way of galvanizing support. That slope is both slippery and dangerous. Its logical conclusion is in racism and . It’s essential that arguments against the privatization of public assets are based on an ethic of economic and social justice, not nationalism.

We see an ever growing level of populist nationalistic rhetoric. It is, as the author says, a very easy way of galvanizing support.

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107 Responses to “Condemning anti-Jewish racism”

  1. MikeE (555 comments) says:

    As someone with Jewish family members who fled Germany during WWII – please explain why we are still using the term “race” to describe a believe system.

    I think many Jews of different ethnicities would take issue with being referred to as one race after the last experience they had with such matters.

    Race does not equal religion…

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  2. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Socialists have a long history of targeting Jews, on the basis they have control of the banking system.

    I wonder if they know Marx was a German Jew ?

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  3. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    MikeE , some Jews claim they are a race and want to be considered as such. They present DNA evidence and other things to support that view.

    Here is a result from a quick google search:

    It is quite remarkable, for instance, to see how assiduously certain Jewish scholars argue for the distinctness and purity of their race.

    They were a religiously mystic, race-conscious people, united more by their spiritual and ethnic bonds than by any sense of a common fatherland or home-country. For, as nomads, their attachment to a territorial home was necessarily faint, if present at all.

    http://www.counter-currents.com/2013/02/the-jews-as-a-race/

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  4. gump (1,548 comments) says:

    @Kea

    There is no Jewish race. You can find “racial purity” nutbars in any community.

    The obvious counter-example is the Beta Israel from Ethiopia. They’re regarded as Jews by the Israeli Government.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_Israel

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  5. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    gump, I did not express a personal view either way. The fact is there are Jews pushing to be recognised as a distinct race, often to justify the existence of Israel.

    You can find “racial purity” nutbars in any community.

    I am not aware of any Muslim, Christian or Buddhist “racial purity nutbars ” who claim their religion is a race. Are you ?

    Jews played a central role in race science both as practitioners and objects of study

    There was also an inner-Jewish dimension that compelled Jewish race scientists to seek answers to questions concerning Jewish origins, the Sephardic–Ashkenazic split, and the physiological links between Jews from diverse communities. Jewish race scientists in Germany, for example, were more concerned with the effects of mixed marriage …

    http://www.yivoencyclopedia.org/article.aspx/Race_Science

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  6. rangitoto (221 comments) says:

    I have heard moslems claim anti islamic statements to be racist

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  7. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    gump, your claim that Jews are not a race has the logical conclusion that anyone who coverts to Judasim has a claim to live in Israel.

    Is that what you claim ?

    DNA links prove Jews are a ‘race,’ says genetics expert
    Conjuring fear of Nazism and anti-Semitism, Jews recoil from the thought that Judaism might be a race, but medical geneticist Harry Ostrer insists the ‘biological basis of Jewishness’ cannot be ignored.

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/dna-links-prove-jews-are-a-race-says-genetics-expert-1.428664

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  8. RRM (9,638 comments) says:

    Went on a Mana Party /Aotearoa Is Not For Sale march, and met ferals? Fancy that…

    Serious question… has anyone ever actually met a super-rich Jew who seemed to be cynically manipulating the affairs of the state for his own malicious purposes? I know I haven’t. (Well, I would not flatter DPF by calling him “super-rich”… :-P ) It just seems strange to me that people would persist with this “the Jews this, the Jews that…” nonsense in NZ in this day and age.

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  9. Judith (8,404 comments) says:

    I think we have fallen into the trap of blaming bad behaviour on racism.
    Pre-judice and bigotry are often mistaken for racism, which is generally underlined by the belief that that cultural behaviours are inherited.

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  10. radvad (701 comments) says:

    So anti Jewish bigots are not “right wing” extremists after all. Who knew?

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  11. Mobile Michael (430 comments) says:

    Socialism has a long history of supporting anti-semitism, though thankfully this has been dying out. It’s support of other conspiracy theories still goes strong…

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  12. wrightingright (145 comments) says:

    http://capitalismbad.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/the-left-must-not-tolerate-anti-semitism.html

    The lefty socialists are surprised when the *National Socialist Party* people are with them?? No shit Sherlock.

    You’d have to be pretty thick to not realise the connection.

    Guess they never clicked the reason there was so much hate with communists vs nazis is not because they’re polar opposites but because they’re competing for the same bloody ideological territory!

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  13. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    I remember hanging out with an Israeli guy over seas. He had a guts full of the place and was living in Italy. He made the simple observation that there are very few Jews and Israel is tiny. Why all the fuss about Jews ! ? It may sound simplistic, but it did get me thinking and I agreed with his comments.

    My personal view is they are not a race. However, that does bring into question their claim for a homeland, on the basis of religion. How can a 6th generation Russian have more claim to the region than people who have lived in the area for centuries, all based on religion ?

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  14. RRM (9,638 comments) says:

    There might be a resurgence if it occurs to someone that you could add BIG onto the front of it:

    Big Oil

    Big Pharma

    Big Judaism

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  15. kowtow (7,925 comments) says:

    We don’t want nationalist sentiment at socialist gatherings. Quite right they could end up being called national socialists.

    But this govt in order to sell the assets says the shares are for kiwi mums and dads,I’d say that’s populist.

    Either sell the whole fucking thing on the open market to all comers or just keep the fucking things to pay you the owner (taxpayer) a dividend!

    For a flagship policy it sure seems to be foundering.

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  16. Ryan Sproull (7,059 comments) says:

    As someone with Jewish family members who fled Germany during WWII – please explain why we are still using the term “race” to describe a believe system.

    I think many Jews of different ethnicities would take issue with being referred to as one race after the last experience they had with such matters.

    Race does not equal religion…

    There is a Jewish race/ethnicity, and there is a Jewish religion (Judaism). Some confusion stems from the same words (“Jew” and “Jewish”, etc.) being applied to both.

    There are ethnic Jews who are not religiously Jewish, and there are converts to Judaism who are not ethnically Jewish.

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  17. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    radvad (469) Says:

    May 2nd, 2013 at 4:49 pm
    So anti Jewish bigots are not “right wing” extremists after all. Who knew?

    By “right wing” can I assume you mean neo-nazis ? (neo-nazi = New- National SOCIALIST Workers Party)

    I have never met anyone who is against Jews. There are not many around here to hate at anyway. I meet lots of people who claim to hate Muslims and Christians though, but that seems to be ok with many people.

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  18. wrightingright (145 comments) says:

    MikeE, I also am descended from German Jews (which luckily managed to flee successfully, otherwise I’d have never been born! The same can’t be said about all of my family however).

    Jewishness is both an ethnic AND a religious thing. A bit like how light can be viewed as both a wave or a particle perhaps? (or then again, maybe not. Bad analogy!)

    So while a person can be ethnically Jewish, that doesn’t automatically mean they’re religiously Jewish. But they can still regard themselves as Jewish if they wish.

    And just because a person is ethnically Jew doesn’t mean they can’t also be of other races too.

    So while I firmly see myself as Jewish, I also equally strongly view myself as a Northern European and a Kiwi too.

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  19. gump (1,548 comments) says:

    @Kea

    “gump, your claim that Jews are not a race has the logical conclusion that anyone who coverts to Judasim has a claim to live in Israel.”

    ——————-

    Well yes. That is exactly the case now. Anybody who converts to Judaism is eligible to apply to the Israeli authorities for Jewish citizenship under the Law of Return.

    Of course the Israeli Government tests such claims thoroughly, but if they are satisfied that your conversion is genuine then there is a clear path to citizenship.

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  20. gump (1,548 comments) says:

    @Kea

    “I am not aware of any Muslim, Christian or Buddhist “racial purity nutbars ” who claim their religion is a race. Are you ?”

    ——————-

    Well yes – I am aware of several groups that make that claim.

    Rastafarians and the Unification Church of South Korea are the obvious examples. But I’m sure I can find some others given enough time.

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  21. Bob R (1,357 comments) says:

    ***Campaigns against privatization have a nasty habit of appealing to populist nationalism, because it’s an easy way of galvanizing support. That slope is both slippery and dangerous. ***

    It’s perfectly normal for people to be concerned about ownership of assets in their country falling into overseas ownership. Particularly, assets of strategic importance. You can label that concern “nationalism” but I don’t see that in itself as morally wrong – it seems entirely legitimate and reasonable.

    Government in itself is elected to serve the interests of the people who elect it. The corrollory is that you would not expect them to put the interests of people overseas ahead of their own voters.

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  22. hamnidaV2 (247 comments) says:

    I can’t believe it’s 2013 and you Right Wingers are still trying to say Hitler and the Nazis were Left Wing.

    Next you’ll be saying North Korea has a democratic government and the United States is united.

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  23. Bob R (1,357 comments) says:

    ***One way to do that is to stop the nationalist rhetoric. ***

    Ok, so should Israel drop the “nationalist rhetoric” too and just let the country be taken over? It’s a shame politicians in Western countries aren’t as interested in looking after the concerns of _their_ voters.

    “This law is a yellow card for the Prime Minister and his government, warning that every privatization of land in Israel must be done carefully, with responsibility and with thorough examination,” said Shai after the bill passed. “We must save national land for future generations.”

    After consultation with the Justice Minister, the law includes an exception for foreign citizens who qualify for citizenship under the Law of Return, even if they have not actually applied for Israeli citizenship.

    http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Foreign-nationals-limited-from-purchasing-ownership-of-land

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  24. Tom Jackson (2,492 comments) says:

    Ibetthejewsdidthis.jpg

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  25. Tom Jackson (2,492 comments) says:

    Serious question… has anyone ever actually met a super-rich Jew who seemed to be cynically manipulating the affairs of the state for his own malicious purposes?

    Sheldon Adelson? ;-)

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  26. Bob R (1,357 comments) says:

    heh @ Tom Jackson,

    In the US the Israel Lobby is something that has recently received more attention. Although, that comprises both jewish-american organisations and Christian evangelicals.

    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-israel-lobby

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  27. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    “Serious question… has anyone ever actually met a super-rich Jew who seemed to be cynically manipulating the affairs of the state for his own malicious purposes?”

    Has anyone every actually met a Muslim who wanted to kill all Westerners and Jews ?

    Funny how relaxed we are about religious/race bigotry, sometimes …

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  28. Yoza (1,667 comments) says:

    I get it now!

    Criticising Israeli atrocities is anti-Semitism!

    Opposing publicly owned assets being sold to private interests is anti-Semitism!

    Organising workers into unions is a form of anti-Semitism!

    Campaigns for workers rights have a nasty habit of appealing to populist nationalism, because it’s an easy way of galvanizing support. That slope is both slippery and dangerous. Its logical conclusion is in racism and xenophobia.”

    Opposing mining in native reserves is a form of anti-Semitism!

    “Campaigns against mining in native reserves have a nasty habit of appealing to populist nationalism, because it’s an easy way of galvanizing support. That slope is both slippery and dangerous. Its logical conclusion is in racism and xenophobia.”

    Opposing the TPP (The Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement) is a form of anti-Semitism!

    “Campaigns opposing the TPP (The Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement) have a nasty habit of appealing to populist nationalism, because it’s an easy way of galvanizing support. That slope is both slippery and dangerous. Its logical conclusion is in racism and xenophobia.”

    Gee, this is fun thinking up different forms of anti-Semitism. Anyone got anything else?

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  29. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Yoza, I see your problem. Your confusing anti socialism with anti Semitism.

    All those things are signs of socialism. You must be thinking that all Jews are socialists, Just like Karl Marx. But you are mistaken. Many Jews are not socialist but by contrast are very intelligent decent people.

    I hope I cleared that up for you.

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  30. Yoza (1,667 comments) says:

    another one…

    What I think we all need to understand that regulating the national power supply is a form of anti-Semitism!

    “Campaigns that promote regulating the national power supply have a nasty habit of appealing to populist nationalism, because it’s an easy way of galvanizing support. That slope is both slippery and dangerous. Its logical conclusion is in racism and xenophobia.”

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  31. wrightingright (145 comments) says:

    @gump

    “Well yes. That is exactly the case now. Anybody who converts to Judaism is eligible to apply to the Israeli authorities for Jewish citizenship under the Law of Return.

    Of course the Israeli Government tests such claims thoroughly, but if they are satisfied that your conversion is genuine then there is a clear path to citizenship.”

    ——————-

    It isn’t easy however to convert to Judaism! Unlike other major religions they do NOT try to actively convert non-Jews to Judaism, thus the process for a non-Jew to become a Jew is quite difficult.

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  32. Kacang (36 comments) says:

    Kea, in answer to the two questions, no, I have never actually met a “super-rich Jew … Blah blah blah..” or a “Muslim who wanted to kill all Westerners and Jews”.

    BUT while I have also never read a public statement by a Jew claiming he wanted to rule the world by cynically manipulating the affairs of state I HAVE read plenty of public statements (never denied) by Muslims screaming “Death to the Jews” (or everyone else who offends them
    Kind of spoils your argument.

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  33. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    NO single group of people has done MORE for the world than the Jewish people have. You only have to scan the list of Nobel Prize winners to see that.

    What pisses me off the most is that there are a large number of left-wing morons like John Minto who insist on continually harassing and abusing people from Israel (like Israeli tennis players, for example). Almost all left-wingers know *nothing* about the true history of Israel and the area around it. For example, the so-called “Palestinians” are *nothing of the sort* – they are Johnny-come-lately Arabs who only arrived in the vicinity of Israel around 638AD (when Caliph Omar conquered Jerusalem).
    The Jews had already been there for *thousands of years*.

    There is blatant *hypocrisy* by the media and left-wing in that they NEVER mention anything bad that their Fakestinian buddies do (and they do plenty of bad stuff every day, launching rockets into Israel).

    Fortunately there are increasingly-popular blogs around the Internet that counter the kind of anti-Israel BS spouted by left-wingers, as well as calling them on their IGNORING the *atrocities* committed by the Fakestinians.

    The Fakestinians do *not* want peace.
    I have a bridge that I’d like to sell to anyone who thinks that they do.

    @Yoza – no, criticising Israeli “atrocities” is not anti-Semitism.
    It is HYPOCRISY.
    Why? Because the people who do the criticising of so-called Israeli “atrocities” will not say a WORD about the atrocities that the Fakestinians have committed against Israeli civilians.
    “People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones”, and if anyone lives in a “glasshouse” it is the Fakestinians.

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  34. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Kacang, That is a very convoluted and one eyed bit of reasoning to excuse discrimination against another group. You would be susceptible to anti Jewish propaganda, had you lived in another time and place.

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  35. Ryan Sproull (7,059 comments) says:

    Why? Because the people who do the criticising of so-called Israeli “atrocities” will not say a WORD about the atrocities that the Fakestinians have committed against Israeli civilians.

    Are you thinking of http://www.rememberthesechildren.org ?

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  36. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    NO single group of people has done MORE for the world than the Jewish people have.

    *The Germans, Russians, English, and many many others have done more.

    However, it is fair to say that the Jews have done proportionally very well indeed. Their large contribution is out of all proportion to their size. Mind you I am not so sure I want to thank them for Marx… or shall we give that one to the Germans ?

    *Which raises the question, why call them Jews and not Russians, Germans, French, English ? How curious …

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  37. Yoza (1,667 comments) says:

    Goddamn Fakeistinians with their goddamn fakeinhumanity. Its not Israel’s fault they are a sub-human species that need to make way for the for the benefit of their racial superiors.

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  38. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    Its not Israel’s fault they are a sub-human species that need to make way for the for the benefit of their racial superiors

    Disgusting.

    Trying to disguise it as satire, which you’ll no doubt attempt, will do nothing other than confirm this as your belief

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  39. Yoza (1,667 comments) says:

    thor42 (468) Says:
    May 2nd, 2013 at 6:30 pm

    “People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones”, and if anyone lives in a “glasshouse” it is the Fakestinians.”

    Ironically, I happen to belong to a Palestinian support network which raises money to buy glass houses for militants in the West Bank in which they can practice their stone throwing techniques!

    … eerie!

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  40. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Yoza, according to the official version, all that area was empty of human habitation since the earth formed billions of years ago. The people who have lived in the region, since modern humans evolved, never set foot on the place until 1948.

    Fuck knows where these troublesome non Jews came from ?? What we do know is Russians, English, Americans, French Jewish folk are from there. The [their] bible tells us so. It also tells us they are the master race.

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  41. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Trying to disguise it as satire, which you’ll no doubt attempt, will do nothing other than confirm this as your belief

    Krazykiwi you retard !

    He was talking about how the Jews regard the locals.

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  42. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    kea – “*The Germans, Russians, English, and many many others have done more”

    … are you sure:

    Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees per capita in the world.

    Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation in the world – by a large margin.

    Israel has the highest number of scientists and technicians per capita in the world – by a large margin.

    Israel has the highest number of engineers per capita in the world.

    Israel has the highest number of PhD’s per capita in the world.

    Israel has the highest number of physicians per capita in the world.

    Israel has the largest percentage of it’s workforce employed in technical professions in the world.

    Israel has the largest number of start up companies per capita in the world.

    Israel has the largest number of NASDAQ listed companies outside of the US and Canada .

    Apart from the Silicon Valley , Israel has the highest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world.

    The cell phone was developed in Israel at Motorola’s largest development centre.

    The first anti-virus software for computers was developed in Israel in 1979.

    Both the Pentium-4 and Centrino processors were entirely designed, developed and produced in Israel ..

    The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel.

    Israel has the highest number of home computers per capita in the world.

    Israel has more museums per capita than any other nation in the world.

    Israel has more orchestras per capita than any other nation in the world.

    Israel publishes more books per capita than any other nation in the world.

    Israel publishes more books translated from other languages than any other nation in the world.

    Israel reads more books per capita than any other nation in the world.

    Israel’s dairy cows are the most productive dairy cows in the world. They average 25,432 pounds of milk per cow per year, compared to just 18,747 pounds from American cows; 17,085 from Canadian cows; 13,778 from European Union cows; 10,207 from Australian cows; and 6,600 from Chinese cows.

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  43. Yoza (1,667 comments) says:

    krazykiwi (9,137) Says:
    May 2nd, 2013 at 6:49 pm

    ‘Disgusting.’

    I’ll say, the form of racism thor42 supports the IDF and ‘settler movement’ carrying out in the Occupied Territories, Gaza and Lebanon has no place in a civilised world.

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  44. Yoza (1,667 comments) says:

    krazykiwi (9,138) Says:
    May 2nd, 2013 at 6:55 pm

    “Israel has the highest ratio…”

    Yeah they’re amazing, I heard Israelis do a greater number of sit-ups per-capita than anyone else in the world!!!

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  45. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    krazykiwi, remarkable. Thanks for putting me right. Wow, don’t I feel foolish. Could you help me some more ?

    1. Are there any other traits you attribute to Jews on the basis they are Jewish ?

    2. Why do identify them as “Jews” and not by the country they were born, educated and raised in ?

    3. Do you have any more information relating religion to a persons worth ?

    Thanks Herr SS-Obersturmbannführer Krazy.

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  46. Johnboy (15,564 comments) says:

    Never pick on a Jew! :)

    http://llnw.wbez.org/blog/insert-image/2011-November/2011-11-25/12-2–Fermi%20and%20team.jpg

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  47. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    kea, I wasn’t “putting you right”. I was offering an alternative perspective. That’s all

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  48. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    A quick Quiz

    My name is Kea. I was born and bred in NZ. My family have lived here for centuries. I play rugby and drink Tui by the slab. I am employed as an industrial chemist. I have a 10 year old girl. I like to do cross country running and read a lot.

    What am I ?

    A JEW :) I bet your all kicking yourself now at missing my most defining characteristic !

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  49. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    “kea, I wasn’t “putting you right”. I was offering an alternative perspective. That’s all”

    OK

    How are those questions going ?

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  50. Johnboy (15,564 comments) says:

    Was your dad third on the right in my photo of new NZ Kea? :)

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  51. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Johnboy, no he was busy teaching you infidels to lay off the piss a bit and dress your women properly.

    I missed the joke about that photo :(

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  52. mandk (875 comments) says:

    I once heard an Israeli say that 90% of Israelis are atheists, and that 99% believe that God gave the land of Israel to his chosen people, the Jews :-)

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  53. Johnboy (15,564 comments) says:

    Ahr… Your dad was a mum and she predated the latest Tui ad by a couple of generations….. and you jews nuked the world….. and….ahr….fuck my jokes even confuse me…..I do smileys to compensate!!! :) :) :)

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  54. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    johnboy, got the joke. They made the A bomb.

    mandk, they reckon if you get two Rabbis together you get three opinions :)

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  55. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    @Kea .. like to do cross country running

    you sick bastard

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  56. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    “Ahr… Your dad was a mum”

    Sorry Johnboy, I was not used the seeing a woman show her face like that, especially around a bunch of unrelated men ! It threw me.

    I trust they all stoned the hussy after the photo was taken ?

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  57. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    @Kea .. like to do cross country running

    you sick bastard

    Some of those charges were never proven ;)

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  58. Yoza (1,667 comments) says:

    krazykiwi (9,139) Says:
    May 2nd, 2013 at 6:55 pm

    “Israel has the highest ratio of …”

    The highest ratio of nuclear weapons per-capita in the world.

    Contravened the greatest number of UN resolutions than any other country in the world.

    Largest recipient of US foreign aid.

    Greatest spending on military per-capita than anywhere else in the world

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  59. Johnboy (15,564 comments) says:

    You can see why the world hates Jew’s when it is full of Aaron’s!! :)

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  60. Fletch (6,142 comments) says:

    Socialism has a long history of supporting anti-semitism, though thankfully this has been dying out.

    Not really dying out. The largest voting bloc in the U.N is Socialist/Islamic.

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  61. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Fletch, with the rise of the UN and EU fanatical militant socialism has never been stronger. And they sure don’t like them Jews much !

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  62. nasska (10,897 comments) says:

    Kea

    ….” no he was busy teaching you infidels to lay off the piss a bit and dress your women properly.”….

    Probably your father, like you, was simply born into the wrong era. :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8cnbkxifdacn0m4/prude.jpg

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  63. Longknives (4,678 comments) says:

    No great secret that the left hate Jews. ‘Future-Mayor’ Minto is always banging on about them….(usually with a saucepan and a loudspeaker outside the tennis centre)

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  64. Fletch (6,142 comments) says:

    Ironically, I happen to belong to a Palestinian support network which raises money to buy glass houses for militants in the West Bank in which they can practice their stone throwing techniques!

    Yoza, reminds me of how after the Jews moved out of Gaza so the Arabs could move in, they left glasshouses for them, donated with $14 million by wealthy Jews in the U.S. Would have meant thousands of jobs of them and was a nice gesture. So what did the Palestinians do when they took over Gaza? They were looted and (I believe) eventually smashed.

    NEW YORK — American Jewish philanthropists contributed $14 million to buy former Gaza settlers’ greenhouses for Palestinians, a news report said yesterday. Without the funds, the Jewish settlers would have destroyed the greenhouses to keep them out of Arab hands as they were forced out of Gaza Strip, The New York Times said. The greenhouses provide jobs for 3,500 Palestinians and had been a lucrative market for fresh produces for Jewish settlers.

    Read the full story of the fund-raising here –
    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/18/nyregion/18donate.html?_r=0

    NEVE DEKALIM, Gaza Strip (AP) — Palestinians looted dozens of greenhouses on Tuesday, walking off with irrigation hoses, water pumps and plastic sheeting in a blow to fledgling efforts to reconstruct the Gaza Strip.
    American Jewish donors had bought more than 3,000 greenhouses from Israeli settlers in Gaza for $14 million last month and transferred them to the Palestinian Authority. Former World Bank President James Wolfensohn, who brokered the deal, put up $500,000 of his own cash.

    Palestinian police stood by helplessly Tuesday as looters carted off materials from greenhouses in several settlements, and commanders complained they did not have enough manpower to protect the prized assets. In some instances, there was no security and in others, police even joined the looters, witnesses said.

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-09-13-mideast_x.htm

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  65. Johnboy (15,564 comments) says:

    “usually with a saucepan”

    Can Minto cook then Longknives?

    The asshole always looks like he needs a good feed to me! :)

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  66. Tom Jackson (2,492 comments) says:

    I’ll just leave this particular bomb here.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/

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  67. Ryan Sproull (7,059 comments) says:

    Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees per capita in the world.

    Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation in the world – by a large margin.

    Israel has the highest number of scientists and technicians per capita in the world – by a large margin.

    Israel has the highest number of engineers per capita in the world.

    Israel has the highest number of PhD’s per capita in the world.

    Israel has the highest number of physicians per capita in the world.

    Israel has the largest percentage of it’s workforce employed in technical professions in the world.

    Israel has the largest number of start up companies per capita in the world.

    Israel has the largest number of NASDAQ listed companies outside of the US and Canada .

    Apart from the Silicon Valley , Israel has the highest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world.

    The cell phone was developed in Israel at Motorola’s largest development centre.

    The first anti-virus software for computers was developed in Israel in 1979.

    Both the Pentium-4 and Centrino processors were entirely designed, developed and produced in Israel ..

    The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel.

    Israel has the highest number of home computers per capita in the world.

    Israel has more museums per capita than any other nation in the world.

    Israel has more orchestras per capita than any other nation in the world.

    Israel publishes more books per capita than any other nation in the world.

    Israel publishes more books translated from other languages than any other nation in the world.

    Israel reads more books per capita than any other nation in the world.

    Israel’s dairy cows are the most productive dairy cows in the world. They average 25,432 pounds of milk per cow per year, compared to just 18,747 pounds from American cows; 17,085 from Canadian cows; 13,778 from European Union cows; 10,207 from Australian cows; and 6,600 from Chinese cows.

    I’m sure New Zealand would rank higher if we excluded our indigenous population from such metrics too.

    Political correctness gone mad.

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  68. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    I’m sure New Zealand would rank higher if we excluded our indigenous population from such metrics too.

    Who is excluded? Not Arabs, who go to university in both the West Bank and in Israel.

    However, Jews are excluded from University in Islamic countries, such as Iran.

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  69. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    The argument in the first comment is bizarre. Apparently being anti-semitic is anti a person’s belief system.

    But the example is against the Prime Minister, who neither has Jewish beliefs or observes Jewish cultural practice.
    So are those Anti-Semites against his beliefs? No – they are racist towards his ancestry and culture.

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  70. Tom Jackson (2,492 comments) says:

    However, Jews are excluded from University in Islamic countries, such as Iran.

    I somehow doubt they care, since they appear to be the beneficiaries of AA at elite US universities.

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  71. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    Interesting. I’ve been offline for most of the day. Once I get online, there are 70 odd comments, many of which try to define what a Jew is.

    The fact is that even in Israel, there is much argument as to who qualifies and doesn’t qualify, under which religious or cultural auspices.

    There are Jews today that can trace their direct lineage family tree back to King David, and there are Jews that have no connection other than through a maternal line.

    It doesn’t change the fact that there is a distinct culture that is defined as Judaism. It also doesn’t change the fact of anti-semitism. Some define this as a biblically prescribed phenomen. I think a xenophobic disposition against those that are different or not understood is more likely. And As I have mentioned this week, that exists in both the extreme Right (Kyle Chapman) and Left (Yoza).

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  72. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    kea-

    How are those questions going ?

    Oh, those were serious questions?!? Ok then …

    1. I didn’t mention any traits attributable to Jews
    2. I didn’t mention the word Jew
    3. I didn’t mention religion

    Are you sharing Griff’s bong tonight kea? Perhaps it’s time to let up, get a nice hot chocolate, and have a little lie down :)

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  73. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    I somehow doubt they care, since they appear to be the beneficiaries of AA at elite US universities.

    Not sure what you mean there Tom, perhaps you could elaborate. Are you suggesting that Jews get preferential treatment? Sounds like a Stormfront type of argument to me.

    Coming from the author of such comments as these, I am not surprised: http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/03/donr_lie_to_israeli_immigration.html/comment-page-1#comment-1112862

    In Iran, the Jews are prevented from gaining passports, lest they become Zionist spies.

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  74. Griff (6,989 comments) says:

    Don’t blame me KK hes your wing nut mate.

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  75. KevinH (1,151 comments) says:

    “Aotearoa Not For Sale organisers can’t be held personally responsible for the actions of every single person who attends one of their protests.

    But they do need to take responsibility for ensuring that racism isn’t tolerated—or worse, nurtured.”

    According to media reports including a 28 April posting here on KB, approximately 300 people attended this rally, which would not make it representative of social commentary in New Zealand, and certainly would not reflect the views of the average New Zealander. It would be near impossible for the organisers of this march to censure or eliminate the looney fringe element attracted to these type of marches, including nationalists or anti-semites.
    Personally I find the comment that New Zealand has a growing level of populist nationalistic rhetoric to be nonsense, an over reaction to the comments of a couple of losers.

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  76. Tom Jackson (2,492 comments) says:

    Not sure what you mean there Tom, perhaps you could elaborate. Are you suggesting that Jews get preferential treatment? Sounds like a Stormfront type of argument to me.

    Well, I wouldn’t characterize the American Conservative as a racist publication, nor is the author of the article I linked above, who is himself Jewish, an anti-Semite.

    He wanted to know if Asians really were discriminated against in elite university admissions (this has been a long term point of controversy). His results were astonishing to say the least. He doesn’t suggest preferential treatment, but something is odd.

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  77. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    Personally I find the comment that New Zealand has a growing level of populist nationalistic rhetoric to be nonsense, an over reaction to the comments of a couple of losers.

    Kevin, you are correct. The concerning part of this is that there seems to be an increasing tolerance to these comments, attitudes and behaviour from within the far left. The leaders have been an apologist for those views, and refuse to speak against them. This is the concern.

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  78. Jack5 (4,843 comments) says:

    Sir Julius Vogel, eighth premier of New Zealand (from 1873 to 1875), was probably our first prominent Jewish politician, and he was a damn good man for the country. He also founded and was first editor of the Otago Daily Times .

    Jews contributed a lot to the pioneer development of New Zealand from goldfield days. Bendix Hallenstein, whose business endures as a public company, is an example.

    Even in a remote settlement such as Southland, where there are very, very few people of the Jewish faith, Invercargill has had two Jewish mayors, both popular with the citizens: world war 1 veteran Abe Wachner and Israeli Second World War veteran Eve Poole.

    Jewish refugees who came to NZ in the 1930s contributed much to our arts and culture generally, and brought us one of the greatest minds to work in NZ, the philosopher Popper. I wish we New Zealanders had had the humanity and foresight in the 1930s to open our doors to far, far more of these persecuted people.

    Jews may have been prominent in the Russian Revolution (Trotsky most of all), but after the vicious persecutions of Jews under the Czars, the revolution at first must have seemed wonderful to Jewish Russians. Stalin’s mad pogrom of Jewish doctors just before the dictator died, proves Jews were as vulnerable to persecutions from the Left as from the Right. And as is often pointed out in this blog’s threads, Nazi was an acronym for National socialists.

    It’s appalling that anyone should find fault with John Key’s part-Jewish heritage. His mother was a refugee from Europe in the 1930s, and she slogged her guts out and battled (successfully) to bring up her family as a widow in a Christchurch state house. I have nothing but admiration for her character and her endurance. Key comes from fine stock.

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  79. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    Tom Jackson, you have previously outed your personal intolerances … do you want a shovel so you can keep digging?

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  80. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    1. I didn’t mention any traits attributable to Jews
    2. I didn’t mention the word Jew
    3. I didn’t mention religion

    Actually partly true, it was not you originally, I just checked. Though it was you who posted a long list in support of Jewish superiority.

    Dear oh dear Krazy, see what happens when you twist the truth ? You end up with Griff supporting you :)

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  81. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Tom Jackson, you have previously outed your personal intolerances … do you want a shovel so you can keep digging?

    A gutless and cowardly reply if ever I saw one. No attempt to address the point and nothing to say about the link to the article written by a Jew (not Tom Jackson)

    Relying on the old “anti semite” shame defense are we ?

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  82. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    Kea – have a look at some of Tom Jackson’s previous comments on the way Jews bring up their children. You will see a pattern.

    Do you really believe that Jews receive preferential treatment in American colleges?

    I feel well within my rights to dismiss arguments from someone carrying such obvious bias.

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  83. Tom Jackson (2,492 comments) says:

    TimG. You can’t refute it, so you change the subject.

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  84. Lance (2,556 comments) says:

    Another leftist thread-jack.

    I guess the need to obfuscate the topic means they want desperately to avoid answering the issue of leftist anti-Semitism?

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  85. Griff (6,989 comments) says:

    In support of Israel superiority.
    Fixed for you squawk

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  86. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    Seriously, what’s your point?

    You make statements about how Jews bring up their children, and then somehow cherry pick from a long post on Asians in Education some point that I just don’t get, to somehow support your preconceived notion of preferential treatment.

    Yet its you who make no points to substantiate yourself.

    Come on dude… tell us what you really think, in your own words.

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  87. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    TimG_Oz, I see your point, but you would have some credibility if you spoke out in a similar way when people are doing the same with Muslims.

    Everyone gets all precious when the target is Jews, but is remarkably comfortable saying all kinds of awful stuff about the Muslims and Christians.

    I am an atheist so I consider your all wrong, though I would rather have a nation of Jews next door than Muslims !

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  88. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    Kea, you are right, there are many views here on Muslims which I not only don’t agree with, but I find quite distasteful.
    I actually prefer to avoid these conversations, least I be tainted with the same brush.

    As to my personal views – I have many Muslim and Arab friends and I strongly believe that there should be a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza (next to Israel). In Israel, people actually get along a lot better than the rhetoric from the Left would have us believe. Happy to elaborate more if you like.

    I actually don’t think I comment that often (800 odd comments in 5 years is not that much), but when I do I often just try to clear up misconceptions (or deceptions).

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  89. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    And that’s a green tick for Griff. Crazy times.

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  90. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Yes I am aware that things are not as bad as the left would have us believe. I have mentioned before a conversation I had with a European Muslim in Zagreb. He went to Israel and could not believe how many Muslims lived there. He asked them how life was and they were happy there. They had no issues living in Israel.

    I told him that the Israeli guy I was hanging around with in Split, the week before, reckons you Muslims should have a few drinks to chill you out. He thought that was hilarious and agreed, as he knocked back another drink :)

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  91. Tom Jackson (2,492 comments) says:

    You make statements about how Jews bring up their children,

    No I did not. I said that this is the case for many Jewish children, not by any means all. I know this from personal experience. It’s not a particularly controversial point given the status of the Shoah in contemporary Jewish culture. Apparently rational adults have a nagging suspicion that the rest of us will annihilate them, and there are those who do all they can to promote that belief for political purposes.

    and then somehow cherry pick from a long post on Asians in Education some point that I just don’t get, to somehow support your preconceived notion of preferential treatment.

    Read the whole article. It’s certainly an eye opener. If you don’t want my recommendation, how about that of the New York Times’s favourite conservative, David Brooks (the Canadian Jewish David Brooks). See here:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/25/opinion/brooks-the-2012-sidney-awards-i.html?_r=0

    Your attempt to paint the article as some sort of anti-Semitic smear seems odd, given the ethnicity of the author and that of the author of the above endorsement, no? Or is David Brooks a self hating Jew and a liberal?

    Brief summary: Unz wanted to know if Asians were discriminated against in admissions to elite US universities. He discovered that, relative to their academic ability (which is far above the norm) they are not. To his surprise, he discovered that Jewish students are massively overrepresented relative to their academic ability and non-Jewish whites are the most underrepresented. This is a horribly politically incorrect conclusion, and amusing for that reason.

    The upshot is that he blames liberal bias in admissions as much as anything else, but it is food for thought given that conservatives have spent a long time arguing against affirmative action for blacks and hispanics because it denied white students places they deserved on merit. According to Unz its not blacks and hispanics who have really benefited from poor admissions policies.

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  92. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Tom Jackson, I noticed something.

    They appear to be comparing apples with oranges. Asians & Whites are a broad racial group, but Jews are a religion. If someone was a “white” Jew, do you call them a Jew, or a White, for the purposes of gathering that data?

    Do they ask everyone what religion they are, then pick out the Jews and reclassify them as a race ?

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  93. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    I’m not painting the article with a smear, I’m questioning your personal argument and motives, which you seem very reluctant to give right now.

    Your arguments on the link I posted were pathetic and unsubstantiated (still!), and I feel you are trying to whitewash them somewhat here.

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  94. Tom Jackson (2,492 comments) says:

    Read the whole thing Kea. He explains his methods, deals with your objection, and there are appendices, etc.

    Tim. My motive is to point out that treatment of anti-semitism in societies like NZ is way out of proportion. If our societies are anti Semitic, then they suck at being so, because Jews tend to be the most privileged group in them, both educationally and economically (especially in the US), as Unz’s article so deftly points out. You want to feel discrimination? Be black. It’s insulting to people who are victims of actual racial discrimination to suggest that anti semitism is a major problem in NZ, the US, UK, etc.

    Actual anti semitism is a marginal force in NZ society, yet we’re constantly lectured that it isn’t by people whose interest is in promoting the interests of Israel rather than Jews and conflating criticism of that country with racism in an attempt to silence it. You can’t even tell the truth about AIPAC without weathering silly accusations of racism. I find that to be disgraceful.

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  95. SPC (5,473 comments) says:

    Tom, without reading the link … it is not surprising that there is a group over-represented in tertiary study according to their academic ability, if that group places a relatively greater value on education (as a transferable good) and has the economic resources to support it. Motivation and means.

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  96. Tom Jackson (2,492 comments) says:

    It would be worth you reading the link.

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  97. hj (6,714 comments) says:

    We see an ever growing level of populist nationalistic rhetoric.
    ………………………………..
    that’s the point of the post. The claim is that “all ships rise” under globalisation.. they don’t and this is where “National” is weak. Note how often we here “xenophobia”:

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?s=xenophobia

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  98. Judith (8,404 comments) says:

    . Kea (3,916) Says:
    May 2nd, 2013 at 10:44 pm
    ——————————–

    White is a colour, it is not a ‘race’. Anyone who is white is in serious need of medical attention. Many races have pale skin.

    The people that are most frequently referred to (wrongly) as white can actually belong to many different races of people. Our current global community means that increasing lower numbers of people are actually members of only one race anymore, however, it is generally accepted that a person is known by the race they most physically represent and to a degree their acknowledgement of that.

    It was much easier centuries back to determine difference, not so now.

    People often get muddled between race and culture – in this current argument I would say that Jews belong to a ‘culture’, in that they are a group of people with shared beliefs and behaviours (in this case, religious). Although in the past there were some distinct physical attributes associated with Jews, however those characteristic were also associated with other groups, therefore, they aren’t a race.

    Many people say things like Jews have high IQ’s which is why they are good at business. That is not correct, there is no physical propensity to them being more intelligent than any other, but their culture encourages learning, schooling and academic achievement, which of course contributes to their success in business.

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  99. SGA (950 comments) says:

    Judith at 7:57 am
    … in this current argument I would say that Jews belong to a ‘culture’, in that they are a group of people with shared beliefs and behaviours (in this case, religious).

    Yes and no. It’s a bit more than religious. I know people who proudly consider themselves “jewish” but are non-religious, even atheist. To them, it’s more an ethnic, historical, cultural identification than a religious one.

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  100. Dazzaman (1,131 comments) says:

    Yoza
    The highest ratio of nuclear weapons per-capita in the world.

    Contravened the greatest number of UN resolutions than any other country in the world.

    Largest recipient of US foreign aid.

    Greatest spending on military per-capita than anywhere else in the world

    You know…that’s a pretty good list of supposed “badness”….pft.

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  101. SPC (5,473 comments) says:

    Jews are an ethnic people and include others by marriage and religion. This means they are not a race as such – as the term anti-semetic refers to those not European or Christian, an antipathy for Arab Moslems is also a form of anti-semiticism.

    Anti-Jewish racism covers white racists, Christian and Moslem supremacists and those who perceive Jews to be part of some conspiracy against the rest of the world. The latter is a result of Jewish survival as a national people independent of subsequent Christian and Moslem global ambition/empire. Whereas other ancient national traditions were incorporated into these two religious spheres and their own former traditions subsumed (excluding of course India and parts of Eastern Asia). Thus the restoration of Zion – national self government after the period of exile, is seen as either miraculous (some Christians see it as part of fulfilling end time prophecy so are able to support if – mostly American) or as a consequence of some hidden secret power Jews have in the world (associated with money and banking).

    In reality it has more to do with how Jews could retain identity in diaspora and that the church and Islam forbade ursury to Christians and Moslems enabling Jews to profit from moneylending. Note that moneylending was not forbidden for others amongst Christians and Moslems. Everyone hates the “minority” associated with moneylending and given Jews were not Christians and Moslems they were already the ones to …. . Wankers, bankers … getting off on growing what they love about themselves as capitalists. Jews are circumcised of course, but then so are Moslems and many American Christians.

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  102. SPC (5,473 comments) says:

    Correcting the second sentence. This means they are not a race as such – as the term anti-semetic is used to describe those of European Christian culture who have an antipathy for a group that is not of that culture – this includes Arab Moslems who are also victims of anti-semiticism.

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  103. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    Actually the term “Anti Semitism” was coined from a movement looking to legitimise the hatred of Jews.

    http://anthropologist.wordpress.com/2008/10/24/origin-of-the-word-antisemitism/

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  104. Judith (8,404 comments) says:

    SGA (191) Says:
    May 3rd, 2013 at 8:17 am
    —————————-

    I agree, I didn’t actually make my point clear. Although the origin was found in religion – today Jews are a culture, which as you point out, has members that are not practising the religion. Another point is that like all cultures, the people within this one, are also members of other cultures – e.g. a jewish person in New Zealand, is also part of the ‘kiwi’ culture – and so on.

    I think it would virtually be impossible for a person to have only one culture in our type of society.

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  105. SPC (5,473 comments) says:

    Tim, traditional antipathy to the Jews had been over the Christian vs Jew divide, the new divide European race vs Semite was part of the emergence of nationalism in Europe. But given the link between religion and Jewish identity, anti-Semitism also describes the former antipathy towards Jews before this development in European history.

    The irony is that opposition to Jewish nationalism itself is termed anti-Zionism and it is said that this is not anti-Semitic as its part of opposition to the sort of nationalism that also gave rise to anti-semiticism.

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  106. TimG_Oz (924 comments) says:

    Sure, I agree that it’s not anti-semitic to criticise Israel, and to suggest so is vile.

    I do however refer to Natan Sharansky’s 3D Test: http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-sharansky-f04.htm

    If you see criticism based upon De-Legitimisation, Double Standards and Demonisation, then you need to start asking some hard questions.

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  107. SPC (5,473 comments) says:

    The comparison is when considering

    1. whether those who criticise American government policy and or practice are seen as anti-American.
    2. whether criticism of ones own government is unpatriotic and criticism of the governments of other countries is an act of national service.

    Many in the UK (a nation set apart) are critical of Europe. Yet for the moment Euroscepticism is now seen as fashionable/common sense. Many in the USA are paranoid about accountability to the a higher international agency ICC, UN etc. Another nation set apart to fulfil its own destiny under God.

    Yet non Anglo-American nationalism is demonised as per the western capitalist ideal of the global market and internationalism. Hypocrisy much?

    Zionism was part of the last phase of nationalism, now superceded by the multi-cultural impact of immigration in the UK, Europe and the USA.

    In some ways two extremes are in play, as the concept of a mono-cultural society order fades those proposing some cultural order of rule are seen as relics of the past and Zionism was part of the last phase of nationalism – a national homeland for Jews as for other peoples.

    Those who define their values as superior to those of others now deride both nationalism and mono cultural traditions, especially when they connect to one group imposing this order over some other group. An irony that post modernists should have an opinion about what a superior set of values is and decide it is their own …

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