General Debate 11 April 2014

April 11th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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303 Responses to “General Debate 11 April 2014”

  1. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    ….”Climatologists are pessimistic that political leaders will take any positive action to compensate for the climatic change, or even to allay its effects. They concede that some of the more spectacular solutions proposed, such as melting the Arctic ice cap by covering it with black soot or diverting arctic rivers, might create problems far greater than those they solve. But the scientists see few signs that government leaders anywhere are even prepared to take the simple measures of stockpiling food or of introducing the variables of climatic uncertainty into economic projections of future food supplies. The longer the planners delay, the more difficult will they find it to cope with climatic change once the results become grim reality.”…..

    A recent report from the IPCC? No…..a “scientific” prediction of global cooling from Newsweek, April 28, 1975.

    Those who want to collapse the world economy & wreck Western society in the names of Control & Gaia couldn’t get it right 39 years ago either. :)

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  2. hj (6,368 comments) says:

    People want to live somewhere nice:

    1. Stop all development anywhere near me. 79% of Americans want no new development projects in their communities. Now that does not mean they are against development. They are not. They just do not want it anywhere near them. They want new jobs, local tax dollars and new shopping opportunities, but it should be over there and not right here.
    2. All development is political.84% of American say a candidate’s position on development is important when they decide for whom they will vote, so development takes an increasingly prominent role in local politics
    3. The system is broken. 64% of Americans say the relationship between developers and elected officials makes the process unfair. They believe the game is rigged for developers and politicians and it makes them angry and frustrated.
    6. Traffic is destroying our quality of life. From our experience in projects across three countries, it is the Achilles heel of most projects, and it is the item most likely to scare residents and mobilize opposition. It is very hard to address  because no one believes mitigation measures will actually work.

    9. Jobs and new tax dollars are not enough. It used to be that politicians ran for reelection bragging about the economic development projects they brought home to their districts. They took credit for the new jobs, tax revenue and local investment that came from new development, but that is gone now. It is not enough anymore. Now it is far more politically advantageous to stand with the opponents of development and fight against new projects.
    We have seen the landscape for development fundamentally changed over the past 20 years, and it is increasingly difficult to get anything approved.

    http://ht.ly/vBOqX

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  3. hj (6,368 comments) says:

    At 15 billion barrels, California’s Monterey Shale is said to hold the nation’s largest deposit of recoverable oil. The only problem is that its extraction has not proven to be economically profitable. Blame it on the shale’s unique structure.
    “The Monterey Shale is unlike other oil shale formations across the United States” due to the “constant seismic reshaping that has folded, stacked and fractured the substrate,” writes Julie Cart about the formation “which covers 1,750 square miles, roughly from Bakersfield to Fresno.” In 2011, the federal Energy Information Administration estimated that it contained more than 15 billion barrels of recoverable oil or 64 percent of the total shale oil resources in the U.S.

    http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-monterey-shale-20140407,0,4025367,full.story#axzz2yDI8HhXo

    Near a plate boundary?

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  4. Newbie (36 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  5. minus (136 comments) says:

    Cough up Cunliffe

    Mr Robertson later said Ms Collins’ refusal to answer basic questions on a matter she’d previously addressed was “a disgrace”.
    “It is treating New Zealanders with contempt to refuse to discuss a meeting that took place during a trip which cost taxpayers $30,000.”

    Although Key has told Collins to be very careful and on her best behaviour, after weeks of harassment it is not too surprising that Judith Collins should basically tell derp Robinson to get fucked.

    But it seems people are missing the parallel this has with the Cunliffe secret fund, of which he returned $20,000 to the gifter rather than reveal their identity.
    Collins had what she says was a private dinner that involved a Chinese official who may, or may not, help Collin’s husband’s company’s milk entry into China and Labour wants to know who.
    Meanwhile Cunliffe is given money to influence his leadership primary success, accepts the money and holds it in a secret account until found out, then gives it back as if it never happened, but the country would still like to know, as in accordance with the spirit if not rule of Standing Orders, who outside Parliament would stand to help him.

    Of the two, I’d still tip Cunliffe as being the one needing to be more transparent :-)

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  6. kowtow (7,636 comments) says:

    newbie

    It’s not creepy ,to a natural like Key ,who is a father and probably a very tidy person ,fixing that girls’ hair for a photo shoot ,was the most normal thing to do.He wanted her to look her best for the interview.
    Very caring.

    It’s fuckwits like you with your nasty and suspicious comments that have ensured men no longer want to get involved with young people.

    As such you are a destructive influence in society.

    You are probably a communist.

    ps I don’t like Key’s politics .But I dislike your brand of nasty even more.

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  7. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    To coin a phase
    .nasska
    Is wise to ways of the world he just has some funny ideas about science.

    a “scientific” prediction of global cooling from Newsweek, April 28, 1975. :lol:

    you mean a sensationalist news story…….

    Science says we are heading towards a train wreak

    ever seen a train wreck?

    Slow motion mayhem.

    A Cat five cyclone is just about to dump weather on port douglas OZ after killing 25 with record extreme rain in the Solomons

    That will solve the drought for some .

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  8. Simon (685 comments) says:

    IPCC climate doom report got old fast. Ho hum.

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  9. hj (6,368 comments) says:

    n her speech to the House, Green Party MP Catherine Delahunty, noted prized pieces of land were compulsory-purchased by governments of the past.
    She says the tribal territories are among the most beautiful, fertile and diverse rohe (territory) in the country, describing the area as a thermal energy wonderland.
    Ms Delahunty says there was colonial enthusiasm for the once sparkling rivers, pure lakes and coast, because they were so beautiful and valuable.
    Her speech got a good reception from the public gallery at Parliament..

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/241350/four-treaty-settlements-made-law

    so where were settlers supposed to live?

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  10. Yoza (1,547 comments) says:

    It would help if you could provide links to research discussing ‘global cooling’, Nasska.

    The Global Cooling Myth

    Probably the best summary of the time was the 1975 NAS/NRC report. This is a serious sober assessment of what was known at the time, and their conclusion was that they didn’t know enough to make predictions. From the “Summary of principal conclusions and recommendations”, we find that they said we should:

    Establish National climatic research program
    Establish Climatic data analysis program, and new facilities, and studies of impact of climate on man
    Develope Climatic index monitoring program
    Establish Climatic modelling and applications program, and exploration of possible future climates using coupled GCMs
    Adoption and development of International climatic research program
    Development of International Palaeoclimatic data network

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  11. Elaycee (4,303 comments) says:

    Given Penny Not-so’s propensity to use the General Debate thread on Kiwiblog to post her views on ‘corruption’ in NZ (in which she proclaims to be ‘anti corruption’ and ‘anti fraud’), I expect to see another epistle from her shortly about her good mates in Mana – a political party about to sell it’s soul to a convicted embezzler and fraudster, in exchange for the promise of 8 pieces of silver.

    And if she was genuinely against ‘corruption / fraud’ etc, she will be waving placards / shouting the usual slogans and trying to get herself in front of the cameras when DotCon appears at the Mana conference this weekend.

    Fat chance.

    But thanks for the new definition of hypocrisy….

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  12. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Mainstream media have not a line mentioning the treacherous obese German criminal’s trail of devious crime and bribery attempts.
    They have not mentioned Lecher for days. He is now walking around like a satisfied tomcat, must have another scrubber in tow.
    Seems slimeball Little has his unionists all under control.

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  13. Newbie (36 comments) says:

    Oh dear. If the mods could delete my post above, thanks.
    (I got the link from Sideswipe.)

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  14. All_on_Red (1,370 comments) says:

    “In climate research and modeling, we should recognize that we are dealing with a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore that long- term prediction of future climate states is not possible”
    The Inter-governmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), Third Assessment Report (2001), section 14.2.2.2, p. 774

    Dr. Phil Jones – CRU emails – 5th July, 2005:
    “The scientific community would come down on me in no uncertain terms if I said the world had cooled from 1998. OK it has, but it is only 7 years of data and it isn’t statistically significant….”

    Dr. Phil Jones – CRU emails – 7th May, 2009:
    “Bottom line: the ‘no upward trend’ has to continue for a total of 15 years before we get worried.”

    Dr Kevin Trenberth – CRU emails – 2009:
    “The fact is we can’t account for the lack of global warming at the moment and it is a travesty we can’t.”

    18 years of no rises. Still we may get an El Niño this year. What’s the bet any temp rise from that is blamed on good old CO2. It’s funny to watch the alarmists starting to accept the research from the sceptic side. Trenberths interest in the PDO being one.

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  15. Pete George (22,853 comments) says:

    This surprised me. David Parker claimed in Parliament yesterday there was “rising inequality under National” while Minister of Finance Bill English claimed that inequality was “flat or slightly dropping”.

    Parker quoted a Herald opinion poll, but English referred to the 2013 Household Incomes Report (revision, 27 February 2014, Ministry of Social Development) that uses statistics and the Gini measure (the OECD and others use the Gini as the main indicator for international comparisons).

    1996 – 32.5
    2007 – 32.5
    2012 – 32.4
    (there’s a blip in 2011, and a new report is due in June).

    http://www.politicheck.org.nz/factchecks/2014/4/10/is-inequality-increasing

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  16. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    Why did that surprise you Pete? There’s a reason they’re called Liarbore.

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  17. itstricky (1,571 comments) says:

    Or… You could just accept that pumping co2, a gas not that compatible with human beings, into the atmosphere is probably not a good thing regardless of whether it ‘warms’ or not. I guess it’s more “fun” being a sceptic.

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  18. itstricky (1,571 comments) says:

    Igm – you didn’t mention Banksie.

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  19. KiwiGreg (3,178 comments) says:

    “You could just accept that pumping co2, a gas not that compatible with human beings, into the atmosphere is probably not a good thing ”

    Sure, and cripple your economy on a whim and a theory.

    Actually CO2 is vital for life, but you probably already knew that.

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  20. Komata (1,111 comments) says:

    Cue, hysterical David Cunnliffe:

    John Key wore a RED tie to the Government House official reception for Will and Kate (sans George) last night, the one in which the painting of QE II was unveiled (nice painting, BTW).

    HOW DARE HE!!!!!!

    EVERYONE knows that RED is the colour that ONLY members of the New Zealand labour party are entitled to wear.

    How DARE a member of the ‘filthy capitalist, oppressive, elite’ wear such a colour….

    As I said; ‘Cue, hysterical David Cunnliffe…’

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  21. hj (6,368 comments) says:

    Delahunty’s Maiden Speech video removed?
    Not on You Tube.
    https://www.greens.org.nz/speeches/green-mp-catherine-delahuntys-maiden-speech

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  22. Nostalgia-NZ (4,913 comments) says:

    ‘Hon JUDITH COLLINS: It was a private dinner. I have got no ministerial responsibility for it.’

    JC has at least twice blamed Key for not being ‘allowed’ to answer questions on the dinner, again yesterday she implied the same when saying that an MP always does what the PM says. That bothers me because it appears she is blaming JK for the situation she put herself in, additionally the answer above is essentially a ‘no comment’ or ‘I won’t answer in case my answer may incriminate me.’ This is the Minister of Justice, to whom even the speaker said her ‘answers’ let her down. Surely, Judith Collins can come clean. To use the analogy KS and others apply to DC in that he should ‘go to the States’ to answer the accusations against him, then this Minister should give the public an answer and not hold them in contempt, let alone imply that John Key is somehow responsible for not only her silence but for the compromising position she placed herself in and later lied about.

    I’m clearly not a JC supporter. However, in the circumstances it would not matter who the MP was, but this is flipping the nose at public interest and disdainful of the electorate. Answer Judith, so this will go away, stop heaping your crap on the Government, clean up your own mess and move on.

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  23. itstricky (1,571 comments) says:

    Actually CO2 is vital for life, but you probably already knew that.

    I am just as sure as you are sure that you understood what I was implying without having to completely exagurate it to try to disprove it.

    Ruin the economy? Men. Human invention and innovation has handled this sort of thing for thousands of years. Who’s being the doom merchant nay sayer end of the world is nigh bod now then?

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  24. Pete George (22,853 comments) says:

    Reid – to clarify, Labour’s approach didin’t surprise me. the flatline in inequality since 1988 did surprise me.

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  25. Elaycee (4,303 comments) says:

    Speaking of politicians telling porkies… did anyone else see / hear David Parker yesterday afternoon?

    I caught a clip on radio (Larry Williams) where Parker was asked who made the decision to decline the formal coalition offer from the Gweens. And Parker said the ‘leadership’ made the call – (apparently this group consists of Cunliffe / Parker and Robertson).

    Yet, a few seconds later Parker is in full reverse – someone asked him why the decision had not been referred to caucus and Parker said it was a Party decision. So there was a follow up (along the lines): ‘but you just said the decision was made by the leadership’ to which Parker stated: “I never said that”…

    Unbelievable… Even Barry Soper (a weapons grade lefto), couldn’t explain it away….

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  26. dime (9,453 comments) says:

    “It’s not creepy ,to a natural like Key ,who is a father and probably a very tidy person ,fixing that girls’ hair for a photo shoot ,was the most normal thing to do.He wanted her to look her best for the interview.
    Very caring.

    It’s fuckwits like you with your nasty and suspicious comments that have ensured men no longer want to get involved with young people.”

    This x 50

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  27. Ross12 (1,150 comments) says:

    I see the pathetic Robertson is still going at Judith Collins asking for the Chinese official to be named ( surely it would not hard for them to find out for themselves if it is so important. we know he was a border official ).
    I wonder if Robertson will tell Parliament the names of the Chinese officials at the dinners that Goff, Peters and other members of the Foreign Affairs select committee that went to China last month. I know they had dinner with industry people ( my brother in law was at one of them). Maybe they will release the photo ops taken.
    I actually don’t think it is necessary for it to be done –but if the idiot Robertson wants to continue his school boy, play ground games , he cannot have it both ways

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  28. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    Pawn to Queen’s Knight 4.

    Putin plays yet another highly predictable move which leaves the bumbling fools in Washington flat-footed and slack-jawed.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/02/us-iran-russia-oil-idUSBREA311K520140402

    And holds another move in reserve, pending further developments.

    http://news.yahoo.com/russia-ace-hole-094500669–politics.html

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  29. Yoza (1,547 comments) says:

    All_on_Red (935 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 8:40 am …

    National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration

    The year 2013 ties with 2003 as the fourth warmest year globally since records began in 1880. The annual global combined land and ocean surface temperature was 0.62°C (1.12°F) above the 20th century average of 13.9°C (57.0°F). This marks the 37th consecutive year (since 1976) that the yearly global temperature was above average. Currently, the warmest year on record is 2010, which was 0.66°C (1.19°F) above average. Including 2013, 9 of the 10 warmest years in the 134-year period of record have occurred in the 21st century. Only one year during the 20th century—1998—was warmer than 2013.

    Separately, the 2013 global average land surface temperature was 0.99°C (1.78°F) above the 20th century average of 8.5°C (47.3°F), the fourth highest annual value on record.

    The 2013 global average ocean temperature was 0.48°C (0.86°F) above the 20th century average of 16.1°C (60.9°F) and tied with 2006 as the eighth highest annual temperature on record and the highest since 2010, the last time El Niño conditions were present in the central and eastern equatorial Pacific Ocean. ENSO-neutral conditions were present in this region during all of 2013.

    Precipitation measured at land-based stations around the globe was near average on balance for 2013, at just 0.31 mm above the long-term average. However, as is typical, precipitation varied greatly from region to region. This is the second consecutive year with near-average global precipitation at land-based stations.

    See how it works, All_on_Red? Provide comment from a reputable scientific organisation with a link. Quoting private emails without providing any context is dishonest, it is also foolish if you want to be taken seriously.

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  30. peterwn (3,163 comments) says:

    minus & Nostalgia-NZ – From 2000 to 2008, Labour ministers were very lucky as they were not actually required to answer Parliamentary questions. John Key and his Ministers are not so fortunate in this regard.

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  31. All_on_Red (1,370 comments) says:

    Itstricky
    Perhaps you could set an example for the rest of us and stop exhaling CO2, if you think it’s “a gas not that compatible with human beings”

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  32. Keeping Stock (10,104 comments) says:

    Was Annette King’s little “Not me, not me” outburst in Parliament yesterday the most blatant piece of white-anting of David Cunliffe yet? It almost looked scripted…

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/04/what-was-annette-playing-at.html

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  33. Nostalgia-NZ (4,913 comments) says:

    ‘“It’s not creepy ,to a natural like Key ,who is a father and probably a very tidy person ,fixing that girls’ hair for a photo shoot ,was the most normal thing to do.He wanted her to look her best for the interview.
    Very caring.

    It’s fuckwits like you with your nasty and suspicious comments that have ensured men no longer want to get involved with young people.”

    This x 50′

    Me too on that one. Have to be a sicko to even remotely think otherwise.

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  34. doggone7 (703 comments) says:

    minus:

    I thought that the Cunliffe situation was about him doing something in his low polling political party, a private business if any is.

    I thought that Judith Collins went to China on Government business. So to use your expression of “in accordance with the spirit if not rule of Standing Orders”, maybe she should simply ask the question. Her original stance seemed to be in the hope the situation would just go away. Her now obdurate attitude suggests she has something to hide and carries the hint of sleaze.

    I agree with the last part from Nostalgia-NZ.

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  35. Nostalgia-NZ (4,913 comments) says:

    ‘I see the pathetic Robertson is still going at Judith Collins asking for the Chinese official to be named ( surely it would not hard for them to find out for themselves if it is so important. we know he was a border official ).’

    That’s the point on this, if it’s not important – then dismiss the question with a fulsome answer.

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  36. Elaycee (4,303 comments) says:

    @Ross12: The continuous bleats about Collins are now becoming laughable. Whilst most accept she should have been more forthcoming with her ‘drink of milk’ meeting, the requests for her to name everyone attending a private dinner, are pathetic.

    But that also won’t stop the usual handful of KB commenters bleating about Judith Collins at every opportunity – but their campaign is due to their own agenda not finding favour with the Minister.

    Heh… and if they’re not happy with Judith Collins now, I suspect they’ll soon be apoplectic… :lol:

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  37. EAD (619 comments) says:

    I quite enjoy this video doing the rounds of a stunning metamorphosis of a former Obama Hope & Change believer into a full-blown Libertarian as she concludes “Mr. Obama – you are the biggest fraud that has ever been perpetrated on the American people and it’s been a long time since I bought into it so I think it’s about time to burn your shirt”

    She has seen through the lies and realises that Obama has “become exactly like the George Bush” that she “used to so vitriolically hate.”

    Below are some of her observations on all the “mayhem and crime” committed by the president:

    - You bailed out bankers and placed them in your cabinet.
    - You placed Monsanto in charge of your FDA
    - You helped out pharmaceutical and health insurance companies with Obamacare
    - You expanded Bush’s wars and started new ones with drones branding yourself a humanitarian war monger
    - You bragged about crippling sanctions against Iran though they directly affected civilians
    - You extended the patriot act and asserted your right to spy on the American people
    - You asserted your right to detain them without trial
    - You seized the authority to assassinate Americans without providing any evidence of their guilt or offering them due process of law
    - You viciously punish journalists and pursue whistleblowers who expose your crimes though you vowed to protect them when you were running for office
    - You arm Al Qaeda insurgents and refused to close Guantanamo, and you along with congress have criminalized protest
    - And still you have the audacity to scold dictators about democracy, protests and freedom

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  38. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Time number eight

    sigh
    .
    shall we go around again all in a wingnut.

    !8 years

    tell us what temperature trend gives 18 years no warming ?

    RSS…..

    The trend calculator at RSS.

    http://images.remss.com/msu/msu_time_series.html

    Is a satellite measure that gives a temperature anomaly series in slices though the atmosphere.

    At the lowest level 0 to 10,000 m Channel TLT it gives + 0.124 k decade

    At the highest level 30,000 to 50,000m it gives a cooling trend of – 0.761k decade

    Due to the heat formally being radiate to space being increasingly held by the surface blanket of co2.

    You will just fail to address this post again and continue to ignore any information that does not fit your wingnut conspiracy .

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  39. UglyTruth (4,004 comments) says:

    SHTFplan.com Editor’s Note: It is apparent that the Federal government was under the impression that they could simply move into the ranch land surrounding Bunkerville, NV and have their way with the property and livelihood of the Bundy family. What they didn’t count on was the outcry from Americans across the country. And now things may be headed to the next level. As Kim Paxton of The Daily Sheeple notes, citizen militias in several states have been called up. Many members of those organizations are taking up arms and are making their way to Nevada.

    http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/video-militias-are-on-route-is-the-2nd-american-revolution-starting-in-bunkerville-nevada_04102014

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  40. Maggy Wassilieff (258 comments) says:

    @ griffith…. it is difficult understanding most of your postings.

    I realise I am over educated, and I suspect a few other commenters are too.

    But could you please proofread your postings before you hit the submit comment? Maybe then you’ll pick up a typo or two.

    And let me add a clue to the bewildered for your 9:18 posting….. I think Griffith means K/ decade. The international symbol for Kelvin is a capital K not a lowercase k, the latter being the symbol for kilo.

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  41. All_on_Red (1,370 comments) says:

    Ooh .124 k per decade. Scary. So 1.3 degrees every 100 years.
    So not 4-6 degrees then. Welcome to the lukewarmer camp Griff
    You’re one of us now. Bwhahahaha

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  42. Manolo (13,378 comments) says:

    Too early for too much pot, Griff. Go back to bed, mate.

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  43. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    .Putin Warns Europe Of Gas / Israel Targets Iran New Spy Satellite .

    Wars and rumors of wars as Russia threatens all of Europe about gas shortages as Israel launches new spy satellite to watch Iran

    http://www.paulbegleyprophecy.com also http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-… also http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/world

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  44. All_on_Red (1,370 comments) says:

    The other thing Griff is that the ” hotspot” which is supposed to be created by the secondary reaction of CO2 mixing with water vapour- called positive feedback and radiative forcing, is supposed to be happening in the troposphere.
    You have provided evidence that there are no hotspots in the troposphere as the data shows cooling.
    Once again you prove the sceptics view.
    Wat Dabney pointed this out to you last week.

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  45. Yoza (1,547 comments) says:

    All_on_Red (937 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 9:35 am

    Ooh .124 k per decade. Scary. So 1.3 degrees every 100 years.
    So not 4-6 degrees then. Welcome to the lukewarmer camp Griff
    You’re one of us now. Bwhahahaha

    Trouble is the climate temperature increase is not at a steady rate; the warmer it gets the faster the temperature rises.

    See how easy it is to understand, All_on_Red?

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  46. EAD (619 comments) says:

    @ wikiriwhis business 9.38

    interesting link thanks. To summarise, Ukraine owes Russia loads of money for gas already delivered, reneged on their bailout agreement which gave them a discount in the first place, and are now refusing to pay the non-discounted price.

    Just wait for it though, along will come Stephie and other useful idiots and tell us that that it is all Putin’s fault and that he really is a clone of Hitler (he’ll even provide a google search result to prove it) and is actually bent on World Conquest!

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  47. Longknives (4,464 comments) says:

    How many of us only watched EAD’s video because of that girl in her ‘Daisy Dukes’?
    *Though she is correct- Obama really is a tosser….

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  48. flipper (3,569 comments) says:

    Sorry folks, the IPCC crap and the cult it has spawned are not worth comment.

    So ….. As the mystery of MH370 continues, try this for size:

    apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/world/the-depth-of-the-problem/931

    The real deep would be a good resting place for the IPCC and their adherents. Down deep, they would have us believe, they will find all the dangerous, Gaia threatening, temperature increase that cannot be detected on the surface.

    At the likely MH370 depth the IPCC and its zealot followers would be squashed into an unrecognisable mess – like the crap they claim and produce.

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  49. Paulus (2,503 comments) says:

    What Labour and Robertson are afraid of with Judith Collins is that she might become National Leader.
    At least Grunter has no chance of becoming leader of anything.
    Grunter – wait for UTU in time – you are not that clever.

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  50. Ross12 (1,150 comments) says:

    I wonder how the NZ Greens would rationalise this effort given their main policy plank

    http://dailycaller.com/2014/04/09/germanys-140-billion-green-energy-plan-increased-co2-emissions/

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  51. Pete George (22,853 comments) says:

    No evidence of modern forgery in ancient text mentioning ‘Jesus’s wife’

    New scientific tests have turned up no evidence of modern forgery in a text written on ancient Egyptian papyrus that refers to Jesus as being married, according to a long-awaited article to be published Thursday in the Harvard Theological Review.

    The findings support the argument of Harvard professor Karen L. King that the controversial text, the first-known explicit reference to a married Jesus, is almost certainly an authentic document.

    The “Gospel of Jesus’s Wife” was introduced to the world by King at a conference in Rome 18 months ago. The announcement made headlines around the world, and many of King’s academic peers, as well as the Vatican newspaper, swiftly dismissed it as a fake.
    Related

    Graphic: The Egyptian papyrus
    9/19/12: Text mentions Jesus’s wife
    9/27/12: Scholars begin to weigh in

    King maintains the document was probably part of a debate among early Christians about the role of women, family, and celibacy in spiritual life.

    The results of a carbon dating test found that the papyrus probably dates to eighth-century Egypt, about 400 years later than King originally thought, but still in ancient times.

    Other tests found the ink’s chemical composition consistent with carbon-based inks used by ancient Egyptians. And microscopic imaging revealed none of the suspicious ink pooling that critics thought they saw in lower-resolution photographs of the fragment. Such pooling could have offered evidence that the ink was applied in modern times.

    “I’m basically hoping that we can move past the issue of forgery to questions about the significance of this fragment for the history of Christianity, for thinking about questions like, ‘Why does Jesus being married, or not, even matter? Why is it that people had such an incredible reaction to this?’ ” King said in an interview.

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/04/10/new-tests-show-evidence-forgery-gospel-jesus-wife/IusII8b4eI86HgDTKipLhN/story.html

    Interesting but not proof of anything except it’s not a modern forgery.

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  52. Yoza (1,547 comments) says:

    flipper (3,260 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 9:51 am

    At the likely MH370 depth the IPCC and its zealot followers would be squashed into an unrecognisable mess – like the crap they claim and produce.

    No, mustn’t let rigorously researched, peer reviewed scientific data get in the way of corporate economic dogma, that just wouldn’t do.

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  53. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    STAGED! CNN’s Richard Quest Met Flight 370 Co-Pilot Before It disapeared

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  54. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    What Labour and Robertson are afraid of with Judith Collins is that she might become National Leader.

    IMO it’s the only thing their polls are showing is sticking so while it’s not a big bone it’s the only one they have so they won’t let it go and keep gnawing at it with the aid of their media dept at the Herald.

    Maybe what National should do is leak something really “disgraceful” about say, Williamson and let them go at that for another few weeks or months. Just keep doing that till it’s all over.

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  55. big bruv (13,312 comments) says:

    Newbie

    It says a lot about how low the left are prepared to go that you find Key’s actions “creepy”. Of course we all know what you are hinting at, we all know that your “outrage” is faux and we know that you and the rest of your scum left wing mates will keep pushing crap like this such is your desperation to see the back of this countries Prime Minister.

    You may well ask how I know that your outrage is manufactured, well let me ask you this. Were you concerned or did you find the whole LAX incident “creepy”?

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  56. Yoza (1,547 comments) says:

    All_on_Red (938 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 9:41 am

    The other thing Griff is that the ” hotspot” which is supposed to be created by the secondary reaction of CO2 mixing with water vapour- called positive feedback and radiative forcing, is supposed to be happening in the troposphere.
    You have provided evidence that there are no hotspots in the troposphere as the data shows cooling.

    Wow, wrong again. You take failing repeatedly really seriously!

    Satellite measurements of warming in the troposphere:

    All three groups measuring temperatures of the troposphere show a warming trend. The U.S. Climate Change Science Program produced a study in April 2006 on this topic. Lead authors included John Christy of UAH and Ben Santer of Lawrence Livermore National Labs. The first page has this quote:

    “Previously reported discrepancies between the amount of warming near the surface and higher in the atmosphere have been used to challenge the reliability of climate models and the reality of human-induced global warming… This significant discrepancy no longer exists because errors in the satellite and radiosonde data have been identified and corrected. New data sets have also been developed that do not show such discrepancies.”

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  57. Prince (90 comments) says:

    The issue for Collins in naming the official, is that it will likely lead to that official’s sacking, or worse, in China.
    Of course Robertson knows that, but is happy to score points at anyone’s expense.
    Remember how insistent Labour was in protecting the name of the MFAT party stooge Goff sent in for Brasch’s meeting with the US officials.

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  58. fernglas (103 comments) says:

    The “Jesus’ wife ” papyrus is interesting, but how many rational people would accept as historical fact something written down 800 years after the event? Oh, I forgot; the Waitangi Tribunal.

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  59. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    “What Labour and Robertson are afraid of with Judith Collins is that she might become National Leader.”

    Soon as the TPP is signed. Big damage control she is going to inherit. The bulldog will be out 100%

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  60. stephieboy (2,186 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis business (3,241 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 10:04 am

    Wow a big blown Conspiracy theory in the making.!
    Do carry on please .
    But don’t forget a timely attention to some facts and evidence.

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  61. Sarkozygroupie (189 comments) says:

    Has anyone seen this in today’s Dom Post?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/columnists/chris-trotter/9928806/Unintended-irony-in-Key-Nazi-poster

    The Toothfish Collective (whoever the hell they are) are disgusting in more ways than one, not least protraying the son of a Jewish refugee in a Nazi uniform, whatever anyone may think about free speech.

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  62. Newbie (36 comments) says:

    Where do I say I’m a leftie? I’m an undecided voter.

    Anyway, I apologise for my 8.12 am posting. Admittedly the inappropriate word I used wasn’t my original idea; I got that from elsewhere.

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  63. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Pete,

    the “rising inequality under National” meme is a myth created in part by a sloppy and biased media and various groups that have a vested interest in keeping the idea alive.

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  64. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Are you leaning in any particular direction newbie?

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  65. Newbie (36 comments) says:

    I’m more middle of the road. It what annoys me about politics – some parties have some good ideas (and some not, no prizes for guessing who!).

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  66. Yoza (1,547 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (1,529 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 10:46 am

    Pete,

    the “rising inequality under National” meme is a myth created in part by a sloppy and biased media and various groups that have a vested interest in keeping the idea alive.

    Increasing inequality is a ubiquitous occurrence across all advanced economies.

    Why We’re in a New Gilded Age:

    “In particular, we now know both that the United States has a much more unequal distribution of income than other advanced countries and that much of this difference in outcomes can be attributed directly to government action. European nations in general have highly unequal incomes from market activity, just like the United States, although possibly not to the same extent.

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  67. flipper (3,569 comments) says:

    Yoza says….

    “…rigorously researched, peer reviewed scientific data ….”

    “Researched” by new low grading graduates, still wet behind their ears, and working for NGO lobby groups, “peer reviewed” by similar “trustworthy” folk, using “scientific data” that the zealots refuse to make available to the real scientific luminaries….. that is the reality

    Jesus H Christ on a bike… the tooth fairy is more believable than the IPCC crap.

    But you know that Yoza.

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  68. Pete George (22,853 comments) says:

    ShawnLH – yes, there’s been a lot of promotion of what looks like a myth. But it’s especially sloppy of the deputy leader of Labour and finance spokesperson to back his argument with an opinion poll without any statistics to back it up. His ambition is Minister of Finance but he’s Administerer of Myths.

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  69. big bruv (13,312 comments) says:

    Newbie.

    So you say you are middle of the road. OK, do you like the idea of subsidising other families who have more kids than they can afford (AKA Working for families)?, do you like interest free student loans?, do you like the idea of state funded political parties?, do you think that taxing people more is the way to “cure” the climate change con?

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  70. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Yowza I was talking about New Zealand.

    “Increasing inequality is a ubiquitous occurrence across all advanced economies.”

    Not really, and the real issue is not equality or the lack of it. That is irrelevant. The issue is raising up the poorest. Trying to make people equal is a recipe for disaster.

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  71. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    How many times do I have to post the same thing all in red?

    RSS proves the stratosphere is cooling……….As well as the troposphere is warming.

    COOLING

    Very quickly

    More heat is being retained In the ecosphere where life is.

    In the oceans, melting ice and permafrost, increasing weather energy..

    Lots more…..

    :lol:

    Watch the bewilderment when El Nino hits

    The southern oscillation is a heat transfer mechanism it does not in itself generate heat.

    —–

    maggy w explore the personality quirks displayed by. in the vernacular .. Temperance_Brennan..

    Griff is even more extreme on the spectrum :wink:

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  72. stephieboy (2,186 comments) says:

    Yoza, a return to the good old days of the pre Soviet Union 1991.???

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  73. UglyTruth (4,004 comments) says:

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1404/S00054/media-blackout-of-new-syria-revelations.htm

    Hersh’s report confirms the following:
    • Obama’s push for attack on Syria was halted last minute when evidence that the Syrian government had nothing to do with the August 21 chemical attack became too overwhelming
    • It had been well known to US government officials throughout the summer of 2013 that Turkish PM Erdogan was supporting al-Nusra Front in attempts to manufacture Sarin
    • US military knew of Turkish and Saudi program for bulk Sarin production inside Syria from the spring of 2013
    • UN inspectors knew the rebels were using chemical weapons on the battlefield since the spring of 2013

    • US government will not expose continued Turkey support of terrorism simply because “they’re a NATO ally”

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  74. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    The words ‘sloppy’ and ‘Labour’ seem to go hand in hand. Their campaign is a train wreck.

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  75. Newbie (36 comments) says:

    I don’t agree with WFF. Not a student so don’t know the answer to that one. I think there needs to be a cap on state funded parties. No, I don’t agree with taxes on something we don’t really know for sure whether we are responsible for climate change.
    Thanks for your questions. I guess that might help me choose a political party!
    (Busy now, back some other time.)

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  76. Yoza (1,547 comments) says:

    flipper (3,261 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 10:55 am

    Jesus H Christ on a bike… the tooth fairy is more believable than the IPCC crap.

    Yes,and when the tooth fairy presents a study which is accepted by a reputable journal and isn’t demolished in the peer reviewed process you may be able to use it to back up your rants. Until then your posts are just your opinion and are of little consequence to the debate on anthropogenic global warming.

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  77. Yoza (1,547 comments) says:

    Stop being a woss, Newbie. John Key is a pervy kiddie fiddler – the video you posted demonstrates it conclusively!

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  78. mikenmild (10,760 comments) says:

    I’m picking that several persons will take that comment at face value, Yoza.

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  79. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    ‘Hersh’s report’ should be changed to ‘Hersh’s propaganda.’

    A different issue but gets to the problem with taking Hersh seriously.

    SEYMOUR HERSH DEBUNKED

    http://www.dailysabah.com/politics/2014/04/09/seymour-hersh-debunked-by-turkey-us

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  80. Yoza (1,547 comments) says:

    mikenmild (8,606 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 11:06 am

    I’m picking that several persons will take that comment at face value, Yoza.

    Yes, it was a bit impulsive. I don’t really believe Key is that way inclined, I was poking fun at Newbie desperately back-peddling through the whole thread after posting the original video.

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  81. stephieboy (2,186 comments) says:

    Good one Shawn ,

    The source article is Global Research one of the most biased and virulently anti US blogs/ websites on the net.
    Typically the author does not source or document his claims.
    Disinfos and paranoid Conspiracy Theorists like Alex Jones and Chris Bollyn are regular contributors to Global ” Research “

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  82. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    The IPCC is a straw man argument …….

    It is an international committee agreed upon and created by worlds nations in 1988 to look into the science..

    Made up of 12 staff and over 2000 volunteers……To read and attempt to present the science in a series of reports

    — .

    All major scientific bodies

    Over 200 NGOs

    Including our own in new Zealand .

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  83. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Does anything new, any really new information, or any new insight actually ever happen with the daily climate change debate on KB?

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  84. UglyTruth (4,004 comments) says:

    ‘Hersh’s report’ should be changed to ‘Hersh’s propaganda.’

    Morning liar. Still serving the evil empire, I see.

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  85. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    “Typically the author does not source or document his claims.”

    Of course not Stephie. Most conspiracy theories would fall over if they actually had to respect the rules of evidence.

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  86. backster (2,081 comments) says:

    The revelation by one of Dot Con’s previous employees that he had been commissioned by his boss to get John Banks to accept various substantial in gifts while he was in Hong Kong, and which Banks refused gives one pause to ponder.
    Was Clare Curran plied with similar enticements when she visited DotCon with her bags on two occasions and did she have the strength of character to refuse.
    Would Winston when he held a covert meeting with Dot Con offered any baubles? has he accepted baubles in the past? Would he again?
    Russel Norman has given a strong indication of intention to overule any decision to extradite Dot Con should the Greens form part of the future Government. Has he been offered an incentive?
    Hone well surely his principles would be a shield against such corruption, wouldn’t they?
    When or will our joke for judicial process finally expel this cretin from our shores.

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  87. stephieboy (2,186 comments) says:

    UT , six ways to get the help you so desperately need ,

    http://www.wikihow.com/Help-Paranoid-People

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  88. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    “Still serving the evil empire, I see.”

    Which one? There are so many to choose from! :)

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  89. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    CATEGORY-FIVE Cyclone Ita has been likened in sheer destructive force to Typhoon Haiyan that last year wiped out parts of South East Asia killing thousands in the strongest wind speed ever recorded.

    Very destructive winds to 300km have been estimated at the core pushing a huge storm surge.

    Cyclone warnings are current from Lockhart River to Innisfail, including Cooktown, Port Douglas and Cairns.

    Pattern matching ….

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  90. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Hersh, like most conspiracy propagandists, bases his “reporting” on unnamed sources which are conveniently impossible to verify.

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  91. dirty harry (430 comments) says:

    Fuck what a cheek..

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/golf/9929027/Lydia-Ko-the-pro-asks-the-taxpayer-to-chip-in

    Foxtrot Oscar I say…

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  92. UglyTruth (4,004 comments) says:

    Hersh, like most conspiracy propagandists, bases his “reporting” on unnamed sources which are conveniently impossible to verify.

    Hersh’s reporting tends to be verified by Edogan’s involvement in conspiracy to start war with Syria.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1403/S00199/erdogan-busted-proof-of-turkish-false-flag.htm

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  93. Longknives (4,464 comments) says:

    All we have heard from the salivating NZ media is how Lydia Ko is the “game changer” and the “greatest golfer of all time” (Yep- somehow she is already better than Nicklaus and Woods!)
    Seems odd then that such a ‘megastar’ still needs a couple of hundred grand a year from the poor old NZ taxpayer!!
    *I’ve always thought the gushing was a bit premature and over the top- Outstanding young talent but does anyone remember Danny Lee?

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  94. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Iran steps up pace of executions as it courts West.

    Since Iran’s President Hassan Rouhani, who ran for office as a moderate, took office last August, the number of executions has actually increased.

    More than 537 executions have taken place since his election, with nearly 200 coming this year, according to the Iran Human Rights Documentation Center.

    The total number of executions for 2013 was at least 624, with many known to have taken place secretly.

    Iran has long run second only to China in the number of citizens executed each year, according to Amnesty International. And given China’s much higher population, Iran’s per capita rate far outstrips all other nations.

    The report by the FCO also found there was no improvement in Iran’s treatment of its religious minority groups and in particular focused on the persecution of Baha’s and Christians in the country. The report said government officials are arresting, torturing and restricting education and employment opportunities of Baha’s. The targeting of Christians, particularly those practicing in house churches, underground places of worship for Christian converts, was mentioned in the report.

    The Iranian government is still holding American Pastor Saeed Abedini, a Christian convert and American-Iranian dual citizen, in one of its most brutal prisons for practicing his faith. Lawmakers and human rights groups have been calling out for Abedini’s release and appeal of an eight-year prison sentence.

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/04/10/iran-steps-up-pace-executions-as-it-courts-west/

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  95. Elaycee (4,303 comments) says:

    @griffin (11.22am): Has it ever occurred to you that we know cyclones have been occurring in QLD and NT since records began?

    Indeed, I remember a family member sending back photos and reports from Darwin after Cyclone Tracy – and that was in 1974! So to suggest the presence of a Cat5 cyclone is something other than a regular event for the tropics, is total and utter bollocks.

    And don’t bother responding – I’m really not interested in getting into a debate with you about the pros and cons of AGW – I hold the whole AGW crock in similar regard to the highly expensive myth that was Y2K. Both were creations of highly fertile minds.

    Besides, the on-going pissing contest here re AGW is (to me), mind numbingly repetitive and boring.

    And totally futile. :roll:

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  96. Yoza (1,547 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (1,537 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 11:39 am

    Hersh, like most conspiracy propagandists, bases his “reporting” on unnamed sources which are conveniently impossible to verify.

    The UN report into the use of chemical weapon attacks in Syria point to the weapons being used by insurgents rather than the Syrian government. Seymore Hersh maybe wrong about the US/Turkey conspiracy to provide these weapons to insurgent factions, but the silence and misreporting of the UN mission throughout mainstream media outlets in the West is typical of their reflexive deference to authority.

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  97. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Saddam’s legacy.

    Syria chemical weapons: Time running out for destruction.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26979101

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  98. dime (9,453 comments) says:

    Longknives – im waiting for the threat to come “if she doesnt get funding she will switch her allegiance to korea”

    it will be the whole “shes doing us a favour, is she said she was from korea she would make more money”

    Dime says – piss off. Dime doesn’t care if your winnings only cover your costs.

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  99. mandk (822 comments) says:

    @ dirty harry,

    Agreed.

    Does anyone know if there is any reason why Lydia Ko should not be able to incorporate herself and sell equity in order to fund her development as a professional?

    If she’s as good as they say, the NPV of her future winnings and endorsements must be huge.

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  100. James Stephenson (2,034 comments) says:

    does anyone remember Danny Lee?

    Sure do, another reason for Korea to be proud.

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  101. Fletch (6,027 comments) says:

    No evidence of modern forgery in ancient text mentioning ‘Jesus’s wife’

    PG, this about says it all for me –
    http://scotteriology.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/jesus-wife.jpg

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  102. Yoza (1,547 comments) says:

    Elaycee (4,022 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 11:51 am

    @griffin (11.22am): Has it ever occurred to you that we know cyclones have been occurring in QLD and NT since records began?

    Indeed, I remember a family member sending back photos and reports from Darwin after Cyclone Tracy – and that was in 1974! So to suggest the presence of a Cat5 cyclone is something other than a regular event for the tropics, is total and utter bollocks.

    No one is saying cyclones are a consequence of global warming, what the science demonstrates is global warming contributes to the intensity of the cyclones:

    Hurricane Intensity: Governing Factors and
    Forecasting Challenges

    Therefore, it is clear that the theoretical upper bound on a hurricane’s intensity is based
    on the sea surface temperatures, the outflow temperature in the lower stratosphere, and
    surface heat exchange coefficients. It is also interesting to note that the mechanical
    energy produced by the hurricane’s heat engine shows up as the energy of the winds
    (hurricane intensity), but almost all of the frictional dissipation occurs in the inflow layer.
    This means that the power of the winds is converted back into heat which then flows back
    into the system; this recycling of waste heat makes hurricanes even more powerful than
    they would be otherwise.

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  103. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Debunking Conspiracy Theorists: The Tin Foil Mad Hatters Need to Get a Grip.

    http://sabotagetimes.com/life/911-four-other-conspiracy-theories-that-are-absolute-nonsense/#_

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  104. Redbaiter (7,640 comments) says:

    The culture that Nasska and other Progressives have brought the west-

    http://www.infowars.com/100-facts-about-the-moral-collapse-of-america-that-are-almost-too-crazy-to-believe/print/

    100 Facts About The Moral Collapse Of America That Are Almost Too Crazy To Believe

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  105. Maggy Wassilieff (258 comments) says:

    @griffith… I don’t do psychobabble….. I’m sure we’re all somewhere at the extreme end of some measure of personality foilble.

    All I’m asking for is for you to show some regard for the conventions of science which are meant to provide a universal means of communication.

    I don’t want to spend half a day wondering what -0.761kilodecades could possibly be, for this is what you effectively wrote.

    Presumably you post because you want to convey some information/message to KB readers. I’m not getting the message…… just lots of noise.

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  106. UglyTruth (4,004 comments) says:

    Seymore Hersh maybe wrong about the US/Turkey conspiracy to provide these weapons to insurgent factions…

    Unlikely. The planned Turkish false flag implicated the US, as the transcript indicated that the conspirators intended to seek approval for their strategy from US secretary of state John Kerry.

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  107. dirty harry (430 comments) says:

    “if she doesnt get funding she will switch her allegiance to korea”

    fine…dont let the door hit ya ass on the way out Lydia..

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  108. Yoza (1,547 comments) says:

    Maggy Wassilieff (179 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 12:11 pm

    All I’m asking for is for you to show some regard for the conventions of science which are meant to provide a universal means of communication.

    Interesting that you single out Griff with your demand that he should “…show some regard for the conventions of science which are meant to provide a universal means of communication…”, when there are any number of other candidates on Kiwiblog who regularly demonstrate utter contempt for the scientific method.

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  109. tom hunter (4,428 comments) says:

    There were some interesting points made in yesterday’s GD about Libertarian ideas put into practice – or not, as was argued by Tom Jackson:

    Libertarianism on the other hand has never been shown to work at all. That’s my point: communism is proven to deliver a reasonably functional society. Libertarians have no examples of even partially successful mass societies run on Libertarian principles.

    Of course this always raises the question of what degree or type of Libertarian ideas were actually put into practice to be tested. Ryan Sproull pointed to the only Libertarian Socialist society he was aware of – Revolutionary Catalonia – but also made the following point, to which I’ve appended Jackson’s replies:

    By “Libertarian”, are you referring to laissez-faire capitalist minarchies?

    Whatever would match up reasonably well with Libertarian principles. I can’t think of any modern mass society that works like that. Can you

    Libertarians have no explanation for how societies are supposed to deal with the massive market failures that the welfare state corrects for. It’s no wonder they don’t get anywhere.

    I think the key phrase there is “Whatever would match up reasonably well with Libertarian principles.”, since nothing ever gets perfectly implemented.

    Using that as the basis there are a number of countries in the 19th century that would likely meet that standard, all of them Western countries and all, bar one exception, located in Western Europe. The exception is the USA and I think it comes the closest in that timeframe. It had a tiny central government, minimal amounts of laws and certainly a minimal amount of rules and regulations, those mostly controlled by local entities such as counties, towns, cities and states (in ascending order). The 19th century USA probably best fits the laissez-faire capitalist minarchies description. Furthermore, let’s try and do a divide between this era and the so-called “Progressive” one that starts cranking up around 1910.

    Between 1800 and 1910 this society increased it’s GDP about 57 times (GDP measured in constant 2009 $US), an annual growth rate of about 3.7% per year. During this period there were any number of massive market failures (the 1870′s in particular) for which there was no welfare state to correct.

    Does that mean the USA in this period – where it reasonably matched Libertarian principles – had not delivered a “reasonably functional society” by 1910, or even earlier (and one far more so than the USSR circa 1960)?

    Incidentally the period from 1910 to 2010 has GDP (again in constant 2009 $US) increasing about 25.7 times, an annual growth rate of 3.3% per annum, and the periods between 1800-1930 and 1930-2010 yield similar GDO growth rates of 3.6% and 3.4% per annum.

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  110. UglyTruth (4,004 comments) says:

    1. 9/11 “The Twin Towers Were Demolished With Bombs” Theory

    This is one of many 9/11 theories, but I chose this because of the simple fact so many people believe in it, yet it’s so easily disproved with logic. See the “explosions” at the towers? Well below everything else falling, that’s apparently an explosion from a charge meant to help with the demolition, implicating a bigger conspiracy and a homegrown plot for this horrible event.

    OR! It could be gas being pushed through lift shafts from the collapsing floors above, blowing out windows on lower floors. Seriously look at the size of the “explosions”, then compare it to the size of the building, there is more logic in saying it was gravity that pulled down the towers than explosions.

    Of course they don’t mention the molten steel, which has no place in the mainstream narrative.

    Let’s see how many KB liars will deny they presence of molten steel at NY after 9/11 this time round.

    http://moltenmetalsmokinggun.blogspot.co.nz/

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  111. Ryan Sproull (7,033 comments) says:

    The culture that Nasska and other Progressives have brought the west-

    http://www.infowars.com/100-facts-about-the-moral-collapse-of-america-that-are-almost-too-crazy-to-believe/print/

    100 Facts About The Moral Collapse Of America That Are Almost Too Crazy To Believe

    Red, those stats are almost all about the US, one of the least progressive Western countries in the world.

    And a lot of them are hilarious. 88% of religiously unaffiliated Americans “are not looking for religion”. ALMOST TOO CRAZY TO BELIEVE!

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  112. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    September 11th Conspiracies Debunked – Twin Towers

    http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/911/twin-towers/

    DEBUNKING MOLTEN METAL

    http://beforeitsnews.com/9-11-and-ground-zero/2013/03/debunking-molten-metal-2439630.html

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  113. Maggy Wassilieff (258 comments) says:

    @ Yoza…. I plead guilty as charged. Why limit my plea for scientific literacy to griffith alone? Yep, lets think big…. , but would that mean re-educating the masses?

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  114. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    I wouldn’t be inclined to take anything posted on InfoWars seriously Ryan. Some of the issues raised on that list were legitimate, some were just hysteria.

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  115. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    My days attention is taken up with tracking cyclone Ita

    cat five is a horrific storm and it is still building.

    If ita goes down the coast there could be significant damage all the way to cairns.

    The officials are down playing the risk as yet

    Ita could be similar to cyclone sandy generating huge storm surges .

    http://www.auscyclonechasers.com/

    If they get around to updating? is the best information source yet for Ozzie storms.

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  116. Yoza (1,547 comments) says:

    tom hunter (3,969 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 12:19 pm

    Does that mean the USA in this period – where it reasonably matched Libertarian principles – had not delivered a “reasonably functional society” by 1910, or even earlier (and one far more so than the USSR circa 1960)?

    When you use the term “reasonably functional society” to define social organisation in the US between 1800 to 1910 you are aware they had slavery and were actively exterminating the indigenous population during that time frame.

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  117. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Waggy

    get a life

    you could understand my simple typo

    K to k

    This is the third time you have attacked me

    Yet you totally fail to engage others wild statements totally unsupportable by anyone with any understanding of science
    cognitive Bias Much?

    Correct the extremes of those in denial not my poor written english.

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  118. stephieboy (2,186 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth, Reid, Wikiri etc,

    Mapping the Truther mind: Pushing The stupidity envelope,

    What kind of 9/11 Truther are you.?

    http://mightierthanthepen.wordpress.com/2011/12/11/mapping-the-truther-mind-pushing-the-stupidity-envelope/

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  119. dime (9,453 comments) says:

    “When you use the term “reasonably functional society” to define social organisation in the US between 1800 to 1910 you are aware they had slavery”

    true that. hence they werent full libertarian. if there was no federal govt then slavery would have come to a natural end much much sooner

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  120. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    That’s not really an answer Yowza.

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  121. Andrei (2,504 comments) says:

    US Mercenaries in Kharkov dressed as Ukrainian Police Forces

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  122. Elaycee (4,303 comments) says:

    NEWSFLASH: Royals meet Len Brown on tarmac at Whenuapai Air Base.

    Immediate request made by aides for supply of hospital grade Hand Sanitiser. :lol:

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  123. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Ukraine border guards say they captured Russian soldier

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  124. UglyTruth (4,004 comments) says:

    Looks like ShawnLH is first up.

    1. There has been no evidence of molten metal found at the WTC complex. The EVIDENCE actually contradicts the possibility of molten metal (of any significant quantity) during and after the destruction of the WTC, from 9/11 onward.

    Evidence includes testimony of multiple eyewitnesses, extraordinary heat measured days after the event, and undergound fires burning months after the event.

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  125. tom hunter (4,428 comments) says:

    you are aware they had slavery and were actively exterminating the indigenous population during that time frame

    See? I knew that would come up despite my best efforts to keep the focus on purely economic measures, and by including the key words by 1910.

    By the same token I’m quite happy to skip over the USSR in the mid-1930′s, with millions dying in the slave labour of the gulags and the rest of the population frozen in terror by the “organs” of the NKVD.

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  126. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Anecdote and conjecture are not evidence, just opinion.

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  127. dime (9,453 comments) says:

    This is from the wikipedia page about NZ (imagine my horror when i saw new zealand mentioned in a slave article):

    Northern tribes used slaves (called mokai) to grow large areas of potatoes for trade with visiting ships.

    Chiefs started an extensive sex trade in the Bay of Islands in the 1830s using mainly slave girls. By 1835 about 70–80 ships per year called into the port. One French captain described the impossibility of getting rid of the girls who swarmed over his ship out numbering his crew of 70 by 3 to 1. All payments to the girls were stolen by the chief.[174]

    By 1833 Christianity had become established in the north and large numbers of slaves were freed. However two Taranaki tribes, Ngati Tama and Ngati Mutunga, displaced by the wars carried out a carefully planned invasion of the Chatham Islands, 800 km west of Christchurch, in 1835. About 10% of the Polynesian Morori natives who had migrated to the islands about 1500 were killed with many women being tortured to death. The remaining population were enslaved for the purpose of growing food, especially potatoes.

    The Moriori were treated in an inhumane and degrading manner for many years. Their culture was banned and they were forbidden to marry.[175] Some Maori took Moriori partners. The state of enslavement of Moriori lasted until the 1860s although it had been banned by British law since 1809 and discouraged by CMS missionaries in North New Zealand from the late 1820s.

    In 1870 Ngati Mutunga one of the invading tribes, argued before the Native land Court in New Zealand that their gross mistreatment of the Moriori was standard Maori practice or tikanga

    The Ngati Asshole tribe would probably get away with it now “its tikanga bro!”

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  128. Longknives (4,464 comments) says:

    That can’t be true Dime- Delahunty and Co are always telling us that Maori lived an idyllic,peaceful lifestyle until the evil White man arrived..

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  129. Yoza (1,547 comments) says:

    Maggy Wassilieff (180 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 12:33 pm

    @ Yoza…. I plead guilty as charged. Why limit my plea for scientific literacy to griffith alone? Yep, lets think big…. , but would that mean re-educating the masses?

    Why not, if a bit of active deprogramming will lead to a more civilised society I’m all for it.

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  130. UglyTruth (4,004 comments) says:

    Anecdote and conjecture are not evidence, just opinion.

    A factual anecdote can be evidence.

    anecdote
    noun: anecdote; plural noun: anecdotes

    1.
    a short amusing or interesting story about a real incident or person.

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  131. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    “Why not, if a bit of active deprogramming will lead to a more civilised society I’m all for it.”

    Didn’t Mao try that? Something called the Cultural Revolution?

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  132. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    UT you might be interested in this.

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/04/08/357720/syria-sarin-false-flag-plans-revealed/

    And this one will no doubt remind you of when the BBC somehow managed to predict WT7 would collapse half an hour before it actually did. And of course the babies in incubators propaganda piece. Both of which naturally the useful idiots still swallow whole.

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  133. dime (9,453 comments) says:

    “That can’t be true Dime- Delahunty and Co are always telling us that Maori lived an idyllic,peaceful lifestyle until the evil White man arrived..”

    to be fair, we did give them some guns which helped their evil slaving ways. so i guess that makes it my fault. not the fault of the people back then, mine. and i must pay and pay and pay

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  134. Longknives (4,464 comments) says:

    You can never pay enough Dime! You must continually atone for the (alleged) sins of your ancestors….

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  135. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Molten steel was found in the basement seven weeks later and jet fuel can’t melt steel.

    Rebuttal: There is no documented evidence of the presence of actually-melted steel at ground zero. The molten material noted in the 911 Commission report was “slag”, not a molten metal. Most of the reports of “molten steel” found at ground zero were merely references to obviously red-hot solid steel. Even if they actually found “molten” metal, aluminum (which the planes were made out of) melts well under the temperature of jet fuel (pure aluminum melts at 660C, jet fuel burns around 980C[14] going up to 2,200C[15][16][17]). In addition, the mix of jet fuel, plastics, rugs, curtains etc. may burn hot enough to melt aluminum.

    Additionally, the melting point of steel is within the range of 1425-1540C[18], well outside the temperatures recorded at Ground Zero in the weeks following the attacks. What conspiracy theorists fail to note is that steel thermally expands while it remains strong and thus fire rapidly destroys uninsulated steel structures, and steel begins to lose its structural integrity (and red hot steel itself burns in air or in the presence of steam) at well below its melting point, or 700-820C, well within temperatures recorded at ground zero in the weeks following the attacks). Meanwhile, molten steel is not typically found at the site of buildings that have actually been demolished using “explosives” to sever columns. Also, the first law of thermodynamics prevents even the super hot molten product of thermite charges from remaining molten long after thermite ignition. Therefore, whatever molten materials were observed at ground zero in the weeks following the collapses, that molten material was not originally present and molten at the time of the collapses (it began to melt after the collapses, not before the collapses).

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/9-11_conspiracy_theories

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  136. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    “the BBC somehow managed to predict WT7 would collapse half an hour before it actually did.”

    Probably because it was blindingly obvious they would.

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  137. stephieboy (2,186 comments) says:

    Reid you are totally wrong about the BBC news anchor predicting the collapse of WTC7. At 2.00 pm the FDNY had serious concerns about the structural integrity of WYC7 given evens like the big 20 story gash in the south side of the Tower caused by falling debris from WTC 1.
    This fact and the multiple news agencies like the BBC, CNN, NBC etc etc gathering ,at odd times, conflicting accounts led to a simple misunderstanding. and mis communication,
    Not a NWO cock up.!

    http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm#reporter

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  138. publicwatchdog (2,107 comments) says:

    Collins’ defiance over Oravida upsets Speaker

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11236079

    John Armstrong: Labour keeps heat on Collins over companion

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11235636

    In my considered opinion, Minister of Justice Judith Collins is CORRUPT and should be sacked forthwith.

    What training , knowledge and understanding of CORRUPTION has the Prime Minister’s Chief of Staff, Wayne Eagleson?

    What training , knowledge and understanding of CORRUPTION have the (anonymous) Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet (DPMC) staff purportedly dealing with CORRUPT conflicts of interest?

    Have they received anti-CORRUPTION training from the (in my considered opinion) CORRUPT Auditor-General, Lyn Provost, whom apparently wouldn’t know a corrupt ‘conflict of interest’ if it leapt up and bit her on the backside?

    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Petition of Penelope Mary Bright and 13 others

    That the House conduct an urgent inquiry into why New Zealand Auditor-General Lyn Provost did not disclose that she was a shareholder in Sky City Entertainment Group Ltd at the time she declined to conduct an urgent investigation into the failure of the Organised and Financial Crime Agency of New Zealand to carry out ‘due diligence’ on the increased risk of money-laundering arising from the New Zealand International Convention Centre (Bill) 2013.

    Petition number: 2011/101
    Presented by: Denis O’Rourke
    Date presented: 12 March 2014
    Referred to: Finance and Expenditure Committee
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Have they received anti-CORRUPTION training from the NZ Serious Fraud Office, who deal with bribery and corruption complaints as ‘serious and complex fraud’ complaints – and then do nothing, as they did with a bribery and corruption complaint against Auckland Mayor Len Brown?

    Have they received anti-CORRUPTION training from the (in my considered opinion) hopelessly conflicted and compromised Transparency International NZ?

    http://www.transparency.org.nz/

    “Transparency International New Zealand

    Transparency International New Zealand (TINZ) is the recognised New Zealand representative of Transparency International, the global civil society organisation against corruption. We are a not-for-profit incorporated society with charitable status. We are non-political and non-partisan.

    Our Vision
    A world in which the institutions of government, politics, business and civil society are built on strong integrity systems and the daily lives of people are free from corruption.

    We Are
    A caretaker of New Zealand’s high trust, high integrity society
    Author of the “2013 New Zealand Integrity Plus National Integrity System Assessment”
    The local chapter of Transparency International, the world leading anti-corruption agency and publisher of the Corruption Perceptions Index ”
    __________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Check out their ‘sponsors’!

    http://www.transparency.org.nz/Partners-and-Sponsors

    Note – who is their Cornerstone Platinum ‘sponsor’?

    Oh dear – The Office of the Auditor General ……………………….

    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Seriously – you couldn’t make this sh*t up!

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption /anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

    Attendee: 2009 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
    Attendee: 2010 Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference
    Attendee: 2013 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference

    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate (polling 4th with 11,723 votes, campaigning against CORRUPT corporate control of the Auckland region)

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz

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  139. stephieboy (2,186 comments) says:

    Andrei (2,428 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 12:48 pm
    US Mercenaries in Kharkov dressed as Ukrainian Police Forces

    Can you source that Video.?
    RT ?
    Novosti RIA . ?
    Bit of a dead giveaway don’t you think.?

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  140. Judith (7,643 comments) says:

    Good afternoon Penny,

    Didn’t your mayor do well today, meeting the Duchess and didn’t even try to cop a grope or invite her to the Ngati Whatua room?

    Would love to have heard the briefing traditionally given to the Royals before they meet VIP’s – I wonder how they addressed Lenny’s biography?

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  141. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    “In my considered opinion, Minister of Justice Judith Collins is CORRUPT and should be sacked forthwith.”

    In my considered opinion you should pay your rates and stop being a criminal thief.

    A corrupt criminal who steals from other ratepayers is in no position to be calling for anyone to be sacked for “corruption.”

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  142. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    “That will solve the drought for some .”

    As with NZ farmers, Oz farmers aer probably not allowed to store rain water either. Which people are surprised to hear since th ecorrupt media doesn’t inform them of this heinous law.

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  143. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    “Rebuttal: There is no documented evidence of the presence of actually-melted steel at ground zero.”

    How could this be expertly explained when trucks were on site almost instananeously to take away th erubble before it couold be inspected by the proper authorities. Exactly as Bin Ladens family members in the US were whisked away on flights when the aviation industry had been grounded.

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  144. Judith (7,643 comments) says:

    @ wikiriwhis business (3,243 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 1:32 pm

    The media tells us only what they want us to know, based on which ever story will get them the most moolah.

    It’s all part of the dumbing down of society. “Don’t worry about thinking for yourselves, we’ll take care of your thoughts for you!”.

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  145. stephieboy (2,186 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth,

    Re Molten Steel. The following link is a series of world records for controlled explosive detonations of various buildings. Of special interest was the controlled demolition of the Hudson Department Store in 1998.
    As you might beware this the tallest building ever and took some 26 days with a large team to lay all the charges. But also of great interest was the fact that this and other similar tall buildings and structures did not record the presence of any molten steel or metal.
    Now how can that happen in the case of WTC 1 and 2 which you claim was rigged with explosives consistent with controlled demolition.
    Also an explanation as to why there was no recorded or heard multiple crack, crack boom, boom characteristic of controlled demolition. Additionally typical with controlled demolition the detonations begin from the bottom and progressively working upwards.
    Why was this not present at either of the towers and WTC 7.???

    http://www.implosionworld.com/records.htm

    and,

    http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4054

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  146. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    How could this be expertly explained when trucks were on site almost instananeously to take away th erubble before it couold be inspected by the proper authorities.

    Then shipped straight to China. Never mind it was crime-scene evidence from the biggest crime in the US’ entire history. That wasn’t important, apparently.

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  147. UglyTruth (4,004 comments) says:

    Rebuttal: There is no documented evidence of the presence of actually-melted steel at ground zero.

    A denial is not a rebuttal.

    http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200704/ProfMorroneOnMeltingWTCsteel.pdf

    Additionally, the melting point of steel is within the range of 1425-1540C[18], well outside the temperatures recorded at Ground Zero in the weeks following the attacks.

    Surface hotspots exceeding 700 C were measured five days after the event, and it had been raining. One of the witnesses said the molten steel came from deep within the debris, not from the surface:

    “some of the beams lifted from deep within the catacombs of Ground Zero by cranes were dripping from molten steel.”

    Also, the first law of thermodynamics prevents even the super hot molten product of thermite charges from remaining molten long after thermite ignition.

    Are more probable energy source is one or more micronukes, consistent with the injuries suffered by Felipe David./

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  148. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    “But don’t forget a timely attention to some facts and evidence.”

    Time will tell and I will be the first to concede if J Key remains as PM after the TPP is signed.

    Be not surprised if he announced his resignation several months after.

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  149. Longknives (4,464 comments) says:

    Newbie’s post (2 up-40 down) at 8:12am is competing with numerous of Penny’s incomprehensible rants for the most unpopular post I’ve ever seen on Kiwiblog!
    C’mon Penny- Can’t let him steal your thunder old girl! What you got??

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  150. Redbaiter (7,640 comments) says:

    “Red, those stats are almost all about the US, one of the least progressive Western countries in the world.”

    ..and even worse than dragging our culture into the gutter, Progressives then call for more and more laws and greater govt powers and intrusions to try and curb the collapse.

    A twin evil.

    All the while protesting their innocence, like the despicable hypocrites they truly are.

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  151. stephieboy (2,186 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis business (3,245 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 1:35 pm

    The alleged Osama bin laden family flight of fancy is expertly and conclusively rebutted here,

    http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Bin_Laden_family_flight

    The willfully ignorant UT is at it again.
    Micro nukes.?
    Injuries sufferd.? Precisely waht kind.?
    Evidence like measured Radiation levels and sickness or cancers consistent with that theory.?

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  152. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    Don’t know if anyone saw this. Repeated shoe throw

    » Woman hurls shoe at Hillary Clinton

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/9931283/Woman-hurls-shoe-at-Hillary-Clinton

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  153. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Thought Police on Patrol : No longer trying to win the debate, the Left is trying to stop debate altogether.

    “Two months ago, a petition bearing more than 110,000 signatures was delivered to the Washington Post demanding a ban on any article questioning global warming. The petition arrived the day before publication of my column, which consisted of precisely that heresy.

    The column ran as usual. But I was gratified by the show of intolerance because it perfectly illustrated my argument that the Left is entering a new phase of ideological agitation — no longer trying to win the debate but stopping debate altogether, banishing from public discourse any and all opposition.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/375544/thought-police-patrol-charles-krauthammer

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  154. UglyTruth (4,004 comments) says:

    Now how can that happen in the case of WTC 1 and 2 which you claim was rigged with explosives consistent with controlled demolition.

    I didn’t claim that explosives were rigged consistent with controlled demolition. I said that micronukes would explain the extraordinary amount of heat and the injuries of Felipe David.

    Also an explanation as to why there was no recorded or heard multiple crack, crack boom, boom characteristic of controlled demolition.

    It wasn’t your typical controlled demolition, and multiple explosions were heard before the collapse.

    https://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/911_wtc_implosion.html

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  155. mikenmild (10,760 comments) says:

    Not that I agree with a ban, but many publications provide space for climate change ‘sceptics’ in some attempt to provide journalistic balance, which would be laughable if it weren’t also a bit tragic.

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  156. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    Hey I haven’t been following this molten steel thing much but do the learned debunker sites posted by the useful idiots address all of these witnesses in the link or do they just say it didn’t happen and leave it at that, knowing that they could have said absolutely anything and the useful idiots would still meekly walk away like small children who’ve just been told that the stars are heaven’s light shining through?

    http://federal23.wordpress.com/2011/12/14/testaments-to-wtc-molten-steel/

    And what’s this in the link below? (i.e. the column behind the fireman with an angle cut and slag on it.) How did gravity cause that? Was it like some kind of superheated directional cutting gravity or was it the normal common or garden type we normally have except when the laws of physics don’t work? As they apparently didn’t that day in September in NYC in Lower Manhattan at the Twin Towers… and maybe at the Pentagram as well with that amazing skid-proof lawn and no ground effect in operation…

    http://www.911truth.dk/first/img/wtcCutColumnLarge.jpg

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  157. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    “The willfully ignorant UT is at it again. Micro nukes.? Injuries sufferd.? Precisely waht kind.? Evidence like measured Radiation levels and sickness or cancers consistent with that theory.?”

    No. he has zero credible evidence, that much is clear. Any explosives capable of bringing down the twin towers would have been impossible to plant, and no evidence of any kind of such explosives has been found. That’s why we keep getting the so-called “eyewitness” about molten metal claim. It’s all there is, and on it’s own neither credible nor anything approaching proof.

    But then, conspiracy theories have nothing to do with evidence.

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  158. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    US health official calls it quits

    Kathleen Sebelius, who helped guide the rocky and controversial rollout of US President Barack Obama’s landmark health care law, is stepping down as Health and Human Services secretary after about five years, according to a senior administration official.

    In her place, the president plans to nominate Sylvia Mathews Burwell, director of the White House Office of Management and Budget.

    Sebelius was not pressured to resign, according to the administration official. But she leaves after presiding over the disastrous launch of the health law’s new online insurance marketplaces last fall. The failure threatened to unravel what was supposed to be Obama’s signature domestic policy achievement and has endangered Democrats who face re-election in November.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/9931507/US-health-official-calls-it-quits

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  159. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    But then, conspiracy theories have nothing to do with evidence.

    There’s plenty of evidence but useful idiots don’t want to know because looking at it hurts their tummies.

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  160. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    Mapping the Truther mind: Pushing The stupidity envelope,

    What kind of 9/11 Truther are you.?

    “I think your flow chart is part of the conspiracy to make us wonder. ”

    Irony on Steph’s own link lol

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  161. UglyTruth (4,004 comments) says:

    The willfully ignorant UT is at it again.

    If I’m so ignorant then how is it that you are asking the questions, fool?

    Micro nukes.?
    Injuries sufferd.? Precisely waht kind.?

    As reported by William Rodriguez, who who hailed as a hero for rescuing people from the towers:

    “We heard a loud rumble, then all of a sudden we heard another rumble like someone moving a whole lot of furniture,” Rodriguez said. “And then the elevator opened and a man came into our office and all of his skin was off.”

    According to David:

    “That day I was in the basement in sub-level 1 sometime after 8:30am. Everything happened so fast, everything moved so fast. The building started shaking after I heard the explosion below, dust was flying everywhere and all of a sudden it got real hot. I threw myself onto the floor, covered my face because I felt like I was burned. I sat there for a couple of seconds on the floor and felt like I was going to die, saying to myself ‘God, please give me strength.’”

    Injuries consistent with radiation burns:

    Furthermore, the skin that just seconds before was scorched by the thermal radiation was ripped off leaving strips of skin hanging from the body and exposing bleeding skin surfaces.

    http://www.aasc.ucla.edu/cab/200708230006.html

    Any explosives capable of bringing down the twin towers would have been impossible to plant, and no evidence of any kind of such explosives has been found.

    ShawnLH living up to his reputation as a liar.

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  162. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    Veteran investor predicts Wall Street apocalypse

    Don’t be surprised if four horsemen start riding down Wall Street.

    US technology stocks suffered their sharpest dive in more than two years on Thursday night, setting the scene for an equities apocalypse, legendary Swiss investor Marc Faber says.

    He told CNBC that the pain in the internet and biotechnology sectors was just getting started, and the market was beginning to realise that US Federal Reserve was a ”clueless organisation”.

    Faber is predicting a 1987-type stock market crash this year – only it will be worse.

    ”I think it’s very likely that we’re seeing, in the next 12 months, an ’87-type of crash,” Dr Faber told CNBC. ”And I suspect it will be even worse.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/9930697/Veteran-investor-predicts-Wall-Street-apocalypse

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  163. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Antisemitism as Mental Illness by Steven K Baum.

    To the question of whether there is a mental health component to antisemtism, the answer at least statistically, is yes. The more one held antisemitic beliefs, the more likely they were to harbor psychotic thinking. Conversely, the opposite was true. Persons who believed the less antisemitic stereotypes had less pathological thought. The finding was consistent with previous clinical work.

    http://www.stevebaum.com/pdf/mentalhealth.pdf

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  164. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    I said that micronukes would explain the extraordinary amount of heat and the injuries of Felipe David.

    I don’t really know what happened UT, my focus has always been, who cares. We know the official story can’t be true, that’s enough for me.

    But this is my best pick for the what, to date.

    http://vimeo.com/58882431

    Tesla weapons.

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  165. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Israelophobia is anti-Semitism.

    “”Israelophobia,” on the other hand, is steeped in centuries of anti-Semitic stereotypes, but it has now taken on an intense life of its own, often rich in contemporary fabrications — for example, that historically Jews have never lived in Jerusalem; that IDF soldiers harvest the organs of Palestinians; that the “wall of separation,” built to keep out terrorists, is a form of apartheid — and through these falsehoods gushes forth a hatred for Jews. Israelophobia is a block of hatred crystallized around a piece of land, around an idea. Anti-Zionism today, from Malmö to Qom, arises and multiplies entirely from prejudice against Israel: many of its most vicious critics have never even set foot in the state.

    These attacks on Israel are all too often made up of devastating classical anti-Semitic projections, lies and distortions to delegitimize Israel — the blood libel that Jews kill non-Jewish children to use their blood to bake matzah; bottomless greed; indifference, and savage cruelty toward anyone who is not Jewish. Even legitimate geopolitical decisions — such as the right to self-defense, or not being expected to hold territory in perpetuity until such time as one’s sworn enemies might perhaps decide not to threaten annihilation, with no cost for the delay; or ignoring other countries accused of “occupation,” such as Turkey in Cyprus, Pakistan in Kashmir or China in Tibet, while singling out only Israel for opprobrium. These accusations are often translated not just into judgments against Israel, but then go viral against any Jew.”

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  166. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    US bank shells out millions in refund

    Bank of America is paying US$772 million ($888 million) in fines and refunds to settle regulators’ accusations that it misled customers who bought extra credit-card products and illegally charged others for credit monitoring and reporting services they didn’t receive.

    The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and the US Office of the Comptroller of the Currency announced the agreement on Wednesday with the second-largest US bank.

    It is the largest settlement over credit card “add-ons” won by federal regulators, who have been examining the marketing of the products by the financial industry for several years.

    It also marked the biggest refund amount ordered to date by the CFPB, a consumer watchdog agency created by Congress in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis. The agency has operated since mid-2011

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/9925264/US-bank-shells-out-millions-in-refund

    so much for no evidence of conspiracy

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  167. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    There was a nuke in the basement

    Rebuttal: No there wasn’t. None of the basic characteristics of a nuclear detonation (intense flash, thermal pulse, observable radial shockwave, or emission of nuclear radiation) were exhibited during the event. The physics departments of NYU, Columbia, Stuyvesant High School, and every other school in the area would have been all over that with Geiger counters, and most of Lower Manhattan would now be uninhabitable. (Also, to put it in perspective, the 1988 PEPCON explosion in Nevada was less than a tenth of the size of the Little Boy explosion at Hiroshima in 1945, and not even half the size of the fizzled North Korean nuclear test in 2006. That’d have to be one hell of a small nuke,[23] and it doesn’t even begin to take into account that the tower collapses started from the impact sites, not the basement.) The shockwave also would have easily registered on seismic counters all over the world that listen for nuclear testing.

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  168. mikenmild (10,760 comments) says:

    Yes, ‘Tesla weapons’, no doubt wielded by the extraterrestrial Illuminati.

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  169. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Common themes in truther thinking

    “A freakishly large number of truthers are shamelessly anti-Semitic, blaming in various members US neoconservatives (come on, people), property owner Larry Silverstein, and the Mossad for planning/covering up the attack. Many truthers also seem to be of the opinion that a group of Ay-rabs couldn’t have planned an operation this complex, a slightly (but only slightly) more subtly racist attitude remniscent of Erich von Däniken.

    Technological illiteracy is a frequent theme as well — the invention of fanciful devices such as “thermite straps” to cut vertical girders for example (thermite is very hard to direct and usually burns straight down), “quiet” explosives, very-low-yield nuclear weapons, and even undetectable holographic projectors (favored by some of the no-planers) all figure into theories put forth by truthers. Outright lying is not unusual as well; for example, claims of no plane parts on the lawn of the Pentagon were directly refuted by eyewitnesses.

    Truthers also seem to have a thing for digging around in the statistical noise, misinterpreting photo artifacts and other random bits of data[52] and even taking operational jargon (such as the infamous “pull it” command that was used to order the evacuation of WTC 7) out of context, while avoiding things like the fact that steel doesn’t have to melt to bend, that office fires can be much hotter than just a kerosene fire, or the fact that there was a 20-story gash in the side of WTC 7 after the tower collapses that seriously compromised its structural integrity. In fact, the entire truther thought process is very much akin to quote mining. Who’da thunk.”

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/9-11_conspiracy_theories

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  170. cha (3,779 comments) says:

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  171. Yoza (1,547 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (1,553 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 2:14 pm

    Antisemitism as Mental Illness by Steven K Baum.

    The Palestinians are a semitic people, I’m guessing this must make their treatment at the hands of the Israeli state the consequence of some kind of systemic mental illness.

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  172. tom hunter (4,428 comments) says:

    Cha

    +100

    and somebody has already given you a downtick! Sheesh!

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  173. mikenmild (10,760 comments) says:

    cha
    Only 12 hours?

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  174. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Disgrace of Arab states using Palestinian refugees as pawns.

    Jerusalem, with a majority Jewish population, was under siege even before the end of the British Mandate, with its water supply cut off and food in short supply. Isolated communities like Kfar Etsion were massacred.

    After the withdrawal of British troops, the area was invaded by the regular armies of the surrounding Arab states with the aim of driving the Jews into the sea. Arabs who fled the war zone expected “to return within weeks” and also take over the property of their newly deceased former Jewish neighbours.

    Unfortunately, from their perspective, the military campaign was a failure and they found themselves cut off in either Egyptian-occupied Gaza or the Jordanian-occupied Nablus and Hebron districts (the so-called West Bank).

    That was 66 years ago and, since then, they have not really changed their objective. Their call to be “given their freedom and opportunity to return to their homes and rebuild their lives in Palestine” is, in reality code, for their wish to destroy Israel.

    Lest anyone think that they were a truly indigenous people displaced by colonialist settlers, it should be noted that the vast majority of Palestinian Arabs are the descendants of immigrants attracted by the economic development of the area by Jewish initiative from the 1880s onwards.

    This possibly embarrassing fact is betrayed by some of their most common surnames such as Masri (Egyptian), Hindi (Indian) or Tarabulsi (Tripolitanian).

    No other refugee group has been allowed to get away with making their status hereditary but has accepted the inevitability of changes resulting from the failure of their own aggression.

    After the Second World War, Germans who had lived in the Sudetenland and Pomerania for far longer were displaced and now are integrated into Germany.

    The way the Arab states have used the Palestinian refugees as pawns is a disgrace to the family of nations and is time for the world to press them to similarly absorb their Arab brothers whom they so hypocritically claim to support.

    http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/debate/letters/disgrace-of-arab-states-using-palestinian-refugees-as-pawns-1-6483146

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  175. stephieboy (2,186 comments) says:

    Reid (15,437 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 2:14 pm
    Oh dear Reid we have now the thoroughly discredited particle beam weapons canard, courtesy DR Judy Woods.
    Now, lets t see, we have UT with his mini nukes ( without a skerrick of evidence ,- radiation burns and sickness, increased cancers, permanent flash blindness etc, etc ) Place your bets on some other chestnuts twoofers have come up with,

    Holograms?
    Drones ?
    Cruise or Tomahawk missiles.?
    I see that UT has given himself an escape route from the ludicrously implausible explosives controlled demolition to now mini nukes.
    How very convenient.!
    What next.?

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  176. mikenmild (10,760 comments) says:

    An interesting hypothesis here for the religiously minded Kiwibloggers to consider:
    http://www.technologyreview.com/view/526111/how-the-internet-is-taking-away-americas-religion/

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  177. Yoza (1,547 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (1,556 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 2:36 pm

    If you are going to copy and paste large chunks of text at least use quotation marks to signify this is not your writing.

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  178. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    “at least use quotation marks to signify this is not your writing.”

    I usually do, forgot on this occasion though there was a link at the bottom, which should have been a clue.

    Or is the whining just because the article blew a gaping hole in your Israelophobic political theory?

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  179. stephieboy (2,186 comments) says:

    9/11 mini nukes debunked Shame on Jeff Resne, Donald Fox and Jim Feltzer,

    Note the way this theory has chopped and changed and approbated by various different twoofers.!

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  180. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    Oh dear Reid we have now the thoroughly discredited particle beam weapons canard, courtesy DR Judy Woods.

    stephie if someone such as yourself isn’t even capable of seeing that the 911 official story is so full of holes you could drive one of these through it then I fail to see how anything you say about anything could possibly make any sense at all. Indeed it’s one of life’s great mysteries that you can toilet yourself, so profoundly handicapped in the mind dept would you need to be to think what you do.

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  181. publicwatchdog (2,107 comments) says:

    I prefer the considered opinions of qualified architects and engineers (over 2000 of them now) calling for 9/11 TRUTH.

    Seen this?

    http://www.ae911truth.org/

    The 9/11 Attacks, “Keeping the Lid on the Lie”: Media Response to the Growing Influence of the 9/11 Truth Movement

    Written by AE911Truth Staff

    Monday, 31 March 2014 13:44

    AE Meme Toronto Star Subway

    Toronto Star – Canada’s Highest-Circulation Newspaper Reports on ReThink911 Video Subway Ad Controversy
    - “New ad campaign in TTC stations presents alternative 9/11 theory – American group’s 15-second video promotes idea that World Trade Center Building 7 collapsed due to a controlled demolition.”

    A must-read article for anyone who wants to see the official 9/11 myth abolished to make way for a real investigation into 9/11 has been published in Global Research in their March 12, 2014 issue.

    AE911Truth activist, Canadian Elizabeth Woodworth, brings us up-to-date on the stunning successes achieved by ReThink911 in bringing about a more accurate and fact-based discussion of the event.

    Prominent in this success has been the campaign by ReThink 911 across the U.S. and Canada to raise public awareness.

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright

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  182. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    So Reid’s position is he does not care about the total lack of evidence, in his warped conspiracy laden mind it must have been a conspiracy, and damn the facts.

    Not a very credible defence of truther rationality.

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  183. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    “I prefer the considered opinions of qualified architects and engineers”

    The vast majority of whom dispute the truther claims.

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  184. mikenmild (10,760 comments) says:

    Reid
    You have some issues with the ‘official’ 9/11 story, but believe the cause could have been energy weapons from space?

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  185. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Presumably fired by reptilian shape shifting Satanic Zionists Mike.

    I think the “official” story has a bit more credibility than space lasers.

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  186. big bruv (13,312 comments) says:

    Penny.

    Sold your house yet?

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  187. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    You have some issues with the ‘official’ 9/11 story, but believe the cause could have been energy weapons from space?

    I said direct energy weapons are the best explanation to date of the observed phenomena. I didn’t say anything about space. What is it with you people that you continually and I mean continually make assumptions that differ from what was actually said? I mean can’t you read? Any of you?

    One of the reasons why direct energy weapons are the best explanation to date is that gravity does not cause 95% of matter in a building to turn into dust and evaporate into thin air. Yet that’s what happened that day when the laws of physics weren’t working properly in Manhattan. I’m surprised your debunker sites didn’t explain that, but then again, they knew they were talking to people who couldn’t reason because their tummy hurt so much, so I’m not really very surprised. I mean, they could have said something really mental like it was caused by hijacked planes, flown by people who couldn’t fly performing feats which proper airline pilots couldn’t do, flying into it, twice, all directed by a guy in a cave in Afghanistan. I mean who’d believe that? You’d have to be a raving dribbler. Wouldn’t you.

    If you don’t believe the evaporation thing then check the first few mins of that video I gave above and pray explain especially those massive steel beams just poof, turning to dust. Go on. Try and do that. Bet you don’t. Cos you can’t. Can you. Pics between 0.50-1.10 in. Go on. Explain it. Turns to dust, in mid-air. How come gravity doesn’t do that, all the time?

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  188. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    There is no official story, there is just what actually happened. A bunch of Jew hating, anti-American nutjobs (like some of the commentators on KB) though that hijacking two planes filled with men, women and children, and crashing them into buildings filled with hundreds more innocents, was a fun way to spend the day. And note that the hijackers were motivated in part by the same kinds of conspiracy theories being promoted here.

    The toxic mix of Jew hatred and conspiracy theories is a mental illness that can and does lead to psychopathic behaviour and mass murder.

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  189. stephieboy (2,186 comments) says:

    But Reid you belong to a divided house,

    Particle beam weapons.
    Controlled explosive demolition.
    Mini Nukes.
    Holograms
    Drones,
    Cruise missiles etc,etc
    Umm duh .! What does a Particle Beam / Direct energy Weapon look like exactly.?
    Year model and serial number.,???

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  190. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Yes stephie. The story promoted by truthers is constantly changing and contradicting itself because it has no credibility. It’s built on sand and hot air.

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  191. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    mikenmild @ 2.45pm

    ….”An interesting hypothesis here for the religiously minded Kiwibloggers to consider:”….

    My heartfelt appreciation for your research. I was starting to believe that I would have to accept sole responsibility for initiating the collapse of faith in mythical deities.

    At least now I can share the blame with Tim Berners-Lee. :)

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  192. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    And on the feat they accomplished, just not possible, according to real pilots.

    So no-one’s willing to take the evaporation challenge? Tummy hurts too much?

    Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

    Much better to live in ignorance then, since 911 doesn’t mean anything at all, given what happened after it, geopolitically speaking, did it. Go USA. Please defend us by killing wedding parties, cause they weally hate our fweedoms, the gweat meanies.

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  193. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

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  194. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    “I would have to accept sole responsibility for initiating the collapse of faith in mythical deities.”

    I prefer faith in God. But that aside how is your little crusade going naaska? Based on your attempts on KB looks like a bit of a failure. The atheist states of the Soviet Union and Maoist China didn’t have much success either, and they had the advantage of being able to employ concentration camps and mass murder.

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  195. mikenmild (10,760 comments) says:

    Nah, nasska’s going well. Got to challenge the religious mania at all possible times.

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  196. Longknives (4,464 comments) says:

    The ‘Life of Riley’..

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9931350/Home-detention-for-DPB-fraud

    This is so bloody common- yet the Courts refuse to take such fraud seriously..I wonder if she was one of the twenty odd thousand bludgers who took luxurious overseas holidays at the taxpayers expense last year?
    Parasitic scum..

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  197. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    The last thing needed is concentration camps & scenes of mass murders…..that merely hardens the resolve of the Godaddled & produces martyrs.

    Better a campaign of enlightenment coupled with gentle mocking of the brainwashed.

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  198. UglyTruth (4,004 comments) says:

    There was a nuke in the basement

    I said micronuke, not regular nuke.

    Rebuttal: No there wasn’t. None of the basic characteristics of a nuclear detonation (intense flash, thermal pulse, observable radial shockwave, or emission of nuclear radiation) were exhibited during the event.

    The flash wouldn’t have been seen, the thermal pulse was converted into the heat of vapourised or molten steel as well as converting the concrete to fine dust. A radial shockwave was possibly measured along with shockwave from the remaining solid structures as the landed. A fusion reaction would not have left large amounts of radionucleides (Sr, Ba as possible product radionucleides) were collected from harbour samples.

    https://donaldfox.wordpress.com/2013/01/

    Yet when the elements are studied together as they increase and decrease predictably across a dozen locations the outcome is clear. Fission occurred in NYC on 911.

    http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=218036

    (5) By contrast, “FME” believes that the causal agent was single low-yield fissionless (no-radiation) fusion mini-nukes:
    “The thermonuclear bomb used was a ‘pure’ hydrogen bomb, so no uranium or plutonium [was used] at all. The basic nuclear reaction is Deuterium + Tritium > Alpha + n.”

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  199. mikenmild (10,760 comments) says:

    Getting pretty boring now Ugly. Micronuke, conventional explosives or directed energy weapon. Which one?

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  200. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    “Better a campaign of enlightenment coupled with gentle mocking of the brainwashed.”

    And still, how is that going?

    And you do realise that the term “brainwashed” has no scientific or psychological validity as a description of religious people right, or is science just getting in the way of your ideology? :)

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  201. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    tom hunter (3,971 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 12:19 pm

    Using that as the basis there are a number of countries in the 19th century that would likely meet that standard, all of them Western countries and all, bar one exception, located in Western Europe. The exception is the USA and I think it comes the closest in that timeframe. It had a tiny central government, minimal amounts of laws and certainly a minimal amount of rules and regulations, those mostly controlled by local entities such as counties, towns, cities and states (in ascending order). The 19th century USA probably best fits the laissez-faire capitalist minarchies description. Furthermore, let’s try and do a divide between this era and the so-called “Progressive” one that starts cranking up around 1910.

    Between 1800 and 1910 this society increased it’s GDP about 57 times (GDP measured in constant 2009 $US), an annual growth rate of about 3.7% per year. During this period there were any number of massive market failures (the 1870′s in particular) for which there was no welfare state to correct.

    Does that mean the USA in this period – where it reasonably matched Libertarian principles – had not delivered a “reasonably functional society” by 1910, or even earlier (and one far more so than the USSR circa 1960)?

    Incidentally the period from 1910 to 2010 has GDP (again in constant 2009 $US) increasing about 25.7 times, an annual growth rate of 3.3% per annum, and the periods between 1800-1930 and 1930-2010 yield similar GDO growth rates of 3.6% and 3.4% per annum.

    Here is a map of the USA in 1800

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_1800-07-10-1802.png

    This is a map of the USA in 1912

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_1912-01-1912-02.png

    The population in 1800? 5 million.

    The population in 1910? 92 million. An 18-fold increase.

    The population in 2010? 308 million. A three-fold increase.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_the_United_States#Historical_population

    I’ll leave it to you to consider why your analysis might seem somewhat shallow. :)

    This statement though deserves particular recognition:

    The 19th century USA probably best fits the laissez-faire capitalist minarchies description

    It’s an interesting insight into certain prejudices and bias. For some the complete subjudgation of people based on their skin colour has little impact on their assessment of how “free” a society is (or was rather), but paying tax to fund healthcare and education is apparently quite a burden on freedom such that today’s society is much less “laissez-faire” than a slave-owning society was.

    I suppose it was “laissez-faire” for the people that mattered, but for others the government was an all-encompassing presence in their lives: sanctioning and enforcing a system which allowed some people to own other people as property.

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  202. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    “Micronuke, conventional explosives or directed energy weapon. Which one?”

    Yup. Like I said, the story just keeps changing as the “evidence” falls through the cracks.

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  203. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    nasska (9,413 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 8:01 am

    A recent report from the IPCC? No…..a “scientific” prediction of global cooling from Newsweek, April 28, 1975.

    The IPCC and Newsweek are equivalent in your view?

    Those who want to collapse the world economy & wreck Western society in the names of Control & Gaia couldn’t get it right 39 years ago either. :)

    It’s kinda like saying:

    Once upon a time the “scientists” explained gravity by saying bodies tended towards their “natural place”. Then the “scientists” said that objects continued in uniform motion unless acted on by an external force. These bloody “scientists” can’t make up their minds!

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  204. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    So sadly the useful idiots found the evaporation challenge far too hard to handle. After all, how hard is it to watch 20 seconds of video and explain how massive steel beams and column simply turn to dust, one of them in mid-air, as it falls? That’s not hard at all, compared to believing the official story, which the useful idiots believe. But they can’t even do that.

    So here’s an easier one. The Pentagram. Using a simulator with the actual flight data loaded. Perhaps they can explain how come even real proper pilots say they can’t do it? Is that easier than the evaporation challenge?

    Like I said, the story just keeps changing as the “evidence” falls through the cracks.

    The only confusion is in your tiny fragile mind Shawn. As far as I know, UT’s always said it was micro-nukes and he’s never changed that. He’s been saying that consistently, as far as I know. My opinion is that the best explanation is directed energy. So lo, UT and I don’t agree. That’s the only thing that’s happening in the real world here. There’s no “changing.” Of course who knows what’s happening in your rat-infested tiny angry little mind but let’s not go there. Just try not to lie. If you can.

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  205. UglyTruth (4,004 comments) says:

    Micronuke, conventional explosives or directed energy weapon. Which one?

    I don’t know. I think the easiest case to prove is that micronukes of some kind were involved, although both of the others could have been used as well.

    Dr Wood, the main DEW theorist, tries to debunk the molten steel evidence.

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  206. mikenmild (10,760 comments) says:

    Nice to have options eh, Ugly? Even in the unlikely event that you accept one of those three methods was impossible, you will still have an alternative piece of craziness.

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  207. Southern Raider (1,584 comments) says:

    I see Sam Morgan is speaking at the Mana Party conference this weekend about how rich people should pay more tax.

    Hey Sam how about you lead by example and make a voluntary tax donation to the Govt for 30% of what your made on the sale of TradeMe you two faced socialist?

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  208. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    ….”the term “brainwashed” has no scientific or psychological validity as a description of religious people right”….

    Incorrect….from Mike’s link:

    ….”He (Downey) finds that the biggest influence on religious affiliation is religious upbringing—people who are brought up in a religion are more likely to be affiliated to that religion later.”…..

    This is inarguable. All churches of all faiths seize children born to their followers & commence instilling the crap at the earliest possible opportunity. Instance Sunday Schools & youth groups.

    It is nothing short of indoctrination but it fills tomorrow’s otherwise empty pews.

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  209. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    Why don’t you take the evaporation challenge mm? You’re one of the useful idiots aren’t you? 10 seconds of video. Simple. Go on.

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  210. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Take music break! Dedicated to naaska! :)

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  211. mikenmild (10,760 comments) says:

    The ‘evaporation challenge’? Maybe I will.

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  212. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    http://vimeo.com/58882431

    Between 0.40-1.10

    Explain how those things evaporate into dust.

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  213. mikenmild (10,760 comments) says:

    You know Judy Woods’s theory is so bat-shit crazy that other truthers debunk it, right?

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  214. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    Weihana

    The conclusions drawn in the 1975 argument I instanced are a crock of shit on a par with today’s IPCC revelations. It’s just that after four more decades at the trough the weather scientists have learned the rudiments of PR & now generally sing from the same hymn book.

    When in doubt follow the money. We are being fed the crap the scientists are being paid our money to discover so Western civilisation can be taxed out of existence & control turned over to the venal UN.

    I wouldn’t believe them if they guaranteed night to follow day.

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  215. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    “are a crock of shit on a par with today’s IPCC revelations”

    Yeah, damn all that pesky science getting in the way of enlightenment!

    “We are being fed the crap the scientists are being paid our money to discover”

    Like evolution? ;)

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  216. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    ….”Like evolution?”….

    No need to trouble the scientists here. In this instance a small dollop of common sense is all that’s required to undermine the Godologists.

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  217. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Oh I have no problem with evolution myself, I’m just fascinated by your double standards and contradictions.

    It’s all “science and reason and common sense” until it gets in the way of your personal ideology. Then all that goes out the door, and suddenly the scientists cannot be trusted.

    I think the technical term for this ‘convenient cherry picking.’ Or hypocrisy. Take your pick. :)

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  218. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    ….” ‘convenient cherry picking.’ Or hypocrisy.”….

    There’s a third possibility……that of a well honed cynicism of any discovery or action that benefits only a third party who seeks to control everyone else.

    The church hierarchies & the UN proponents of a NWO spring to mind.

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  219. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    The problem is that claim could be aimed at any scientific theory if your of a mind to indulge in conspiracies, so it’s not really a third possibility, it’s still cherry picking hypocrisy.

    Now, is this global threat of world domination from the UN being led by reptilian shape shifters, or some other shadowy group?

    It’s so hard to keep up with these theories. :)

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  220. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    You know Judy Woods’s theory is so bat-shit crazy that other truthers debunk it, right?

    No the challenge wasn’t to test your dissembling skill mm it was simply to look at a video and explain what you were seeing. Simple right? Go for it. If you can.

    I think the technical term for this ‘convenient cherry picking.’ Or hypocrisy. Take your pick.

    That’s right Shawn. Hypocrisy I’m picking for you. As soon as someone asks you a simple question like look at 30 secs of video and explain it you don’t want to. Or do you?

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  221. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    I just get bored dealing with your mental illness Reid, so move on to other subject’s. You take yourself far too seriously. Nobody else here apart from UT takes you seriously at all. Your narcissistic personality disorder is truly impressive.

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  222. mikenmild (10,760 comments) says:

    Reid.
    Just wanted to make sure you knew that even hard-core truthers have problems with the space-laser theory. I will look at the video, in time. Just for you.

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  223. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    A new world order ambition declared in 1990 by President of the United States of America George H W Bush – where the UN would ensure the rule of law.

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  224. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    There were two Presidents called George Bush, shapeshifting under a common name in the White House?

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  225. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Having a little wingnut outburst nasska ;lol:
    how cute
    focusing on the un and the IPCC

    Your denail generated mind trick ….EH…..

    Dont actually admit into your conscience that it is every major scientific body In the fucking world.

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  226. TheContrarian (1,074 comments) says:

    Micronukes? Wow.

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  227. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    So let’s see, the useful idiots go on and on and on and on for days and days and days about molten metal making literally hundreds of posts between them about how it cannot exist, including today, but as soon as I post a video and ask you to watch 30 seconds of it you’re all of a sudden not interested? Well mm is but not you Shawn?

    Video is hard to explain isn’t it. Especially when it blows the official story out of the water. But you just carry on Shawn. I knew you wouldn’t do it. You just don’t want the truth, you can’t handle it.

    A new world order ambition declared in 1990 by President of the United States of America George H W Bush – where the UN would ensure the rule of law.

    Just out of interest SPC: why did you post that?

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  228. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    ….”Dont actually admit into your conscience that it is every major scientific body In the fucking world.”….

    Don’t knock it Griff. Someone trained 100 ankle biters who make up the Vienna Boys’ Choir to sing in perfect unison.

    Showing a group of well educated scientists the benefits of sticking to the plot wouldn’t be too hard. :)

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  229. UglyTruth (4,004 comments) says:

    A new world order ambition declared in 1990 by President of the United States of America George H W Bush

    Their world order is a secular one (novus ordo seclorum).

    where the UN would ensure the rule of law.

    They’re not talking about the rule of law as it applies to due process, but their own humanised version.

    http://www.un.org/en/ruleoflaw/

    “For the United Nations, the rule of law refers to a principle of governance in which all persons, institutions and entities, public and private, including the State itself, are accountable to laws that are publicly promulgated, equally enforced and independently adjudicated, and which are consistent with international human rights norms and standards. It requires, as well, measures to ensure adherence to the principles of supremacy of law, equality before the law, accountability to the law, fairness in the application of the law, separation of powers, participation in decision-making, legal certainty, avoidance of arbitrariness and procedural and legal transparency.”

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  230. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    massive conspiracy
    :lol:
    pathetic wingnut

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  231. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    We’ll get to it Reid, just wait your turn.

    I’m more fascinated by naaska’s claims about reason and science right before he launches into an all out attack on science based on a whackjob new world order global conspiracy.

    I think my faith might be safe from his mocking. :)

    His faith in a wingnut conspiracy theory might not be safe from mine. :)

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  232. UglyTruth (4,004 comments) says:

    Micronukes? Wow.

    It’s the simplest explanation for the extraordinary amount of heat associated with the molten steel, it explains the steel fused with concrete, Felipe David’s injuries, the Sr/Ba ratio found in the harbour samples, and it explains the concrete that turned into fine dust.

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  233. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    Reid, I posted the video as evidence that it was President George Bush senior who proposed a UN led world order not someone of the UN – to correct nasska’s “UN proponents of a NWO spring to mind”.

    I now link to pictures of an autumn scene and the brain of Einstein.

    http://photobucket.com/images/autumn%20scenes?page=1

    https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=picture+of+the+brain+of+albert+einstein&hl=en-GB&rlz=1T4GGHP_en-GBNZ423NZ423&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=6H9HU8GfJ8SmlQW5uIDIDw&ved=0CCoQsAQ&biw=1548&bih=714

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  234. Grant (426 comments) says:

    Reid, do you have some sort of gastro fetish or something?

    I read yours and your one and only disciples , (UT), comments and I cant believe that someone who can possibly breathe and remain upright at the same time, believes the things you do. No, it doesn’t hurt my tummy, and no, I won’t start swapping my ‘r’s for ‘w’s, but your ability to find fantasy where there is none just about does my head in.

    You are delusional.
    G

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  235. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    You are delusional.

    Me and millions of others Grant and the number grows every day as the facade crumbles. As you know…

    “…All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”

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  236. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Reid’s psycho-sexual obsession for other peoples stomachs is certainly creepy, to say the least, and yet more evidence, along with space laser theories for the WTC, of a serious mental illness.

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  237. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Yup, naaska is definitely in the tribe of the “enlightened.” :)

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  238. TheContrarian (1,074 comments) says:

    It isn’t “the simplest explanation”. It an extraordinarily complex explanation

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  239. UglyTruth (4,004 comments) says:

    Reid’s psycho-sexual obsession for other peoples stomachs is certainly creepy

    What is really creepy is how you conflate a fear response with sexual obsesssion.

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  240. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    Reid’s psycho-sexual obsession for other peoples stomachs is certainly creepy, to say the least, and yet more evidence, along with space laser theories for the WTC, of a serious mental illness.

    Ah Shawn Shawn Shawn. Lying again?

    Who mentioned space? You did, and you alone.

    Who mentioned lasers? You did, and you alone.

    I wish you’d stop lying. I mean my words are recorded, you can see what I said, but you can’t help yourself, it seems.

    For Grant’s edification since you already know this Shawn not that it stopped you lying about it, cognitive dissonance is an emotional condition not a logical one. The less logical you are the more you are likely to suffer from it. That’s why Grant I refer to sufferers as having tummy problems.

    Shawn seems to think that’s a sexual allusion, but if I were you, I’d stay well away from Shawn’s madness, his cognitive dissonance is in the serious category, his tummy appears to be on fire, he’s so very emotional.

    Edit: Snap UT. Luckily for him I’m a Christian, so I forgive him.

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  241. UglyTruth (4,004 comments) says:

    It isn’t “the simplest explanation”. It an extraordinarily complex explanation

    Let me break it down for you: one or more tiny nuclear bombs went off.

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  242. Ryan Sproull (7,033 comments) says:

    “…All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”

    Best not forget that ridiculous untruths enter that first stage too – and kind of stay there.

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  243. UglyTruth (4,004 comments) says:

    Who mentioned space? You did, and you alone.

    Who mentioned lasers? You did, and you alone.

    Misrepresenting other people’s arguments is what he does.

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  244. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    Best not forget that ridiculous untruths go into that first stage too – and kind of stay there.

    Like the Earth is flat?

    The Sun revolves around the Earth?

    911 is such a seminal event that it’s like Mt Everest. Once you climb it you’re never the same again. But it’s one of the hardest to climb because you can’t just be a partial skeptic of the official story like you can with JFK, it’s the whole hog or nothing.

    With JFK most people I would imagine have doubts about the official version but I imagine many of those with doubts still nevertheless basically still believe the US govt is good and if there has been some kind of coverup it’s all in our best interests and when the time is right the truth will come out and those living in that belief can credibly do that in their own minds since it was only one man and such people normally don’t connect it to Vietnam or anything else that would otherwise rock that safe, complacent boat.

    With 911 it was so appalling that accepting the merest hint that all is not right in that story automatically entails massive cognitive dissonance against all that you have up till then believed is good, just and true in the world.

    Interestingly there’s a new consciousness dawning in the world which is going to wipe away these fears and partly that’s the youth growing up with the interweb and partly it’s other things on other levels which is bringing it about. We’re on the cusp of a significant change in human consciousness and part of that will involve coming to terms with all the lies and deceptions that have been to date foisted upon us. And you know what Ryan? The only way through that once that dawning is complete will be to forgive. Once history is laid bare and the spin is removed and the archives are all public there will be furious anger amongst those who don’t already know what’s been going on, for centuries. But the only way forward will not be revenge, it will be forgiveness. And that is going to be the test of our species. And the way things are going, I don’t think we’ll pass it.

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  245. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    “The stone age did not end because of a lack of stones”

    Change in the global energy market.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11236662

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  246. Ryan Sproull (7,033 comments) says:
    Best not forget that ridiculous untruths go into that first stage too – and kind of stay there.

    Like the Earth is flat?

    The Sun revolves around the Earth?

    No, like “Pizza Hutt is putting mind-control drugs in the pepperoni”.

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  247. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    When placed in a difficult position, between a rock in front of cave and a Cross someone said

    “what is truth”.

    Does everyone in the world die apart from one family, where God is called father by some guy with an Ark that looks like a new world order replacement for the old one – no one actually has to die when faith in the world changes.

    From a person who wisely said that you don’t need an army the population of China to piss all over the Republican Guards from a great height, but forgot about the difficulty of occupation when undertaking regime change afterwards.

    “There are the known unknowns and there are the unknown unknowns”.

    Translation, don’t put your trust in men like me knowing as much as we need to.

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  248. Steve (North Shore) (4,499 comments) says:

    Now that I am home and have some leisure time, I see that someone with the silly first name ‘Newbie’ has decided to have a go at John Key. This person is the reason why my grandkids are taught by sniveling socialist teachers – and the man teachers are girly boys, wimps, sooks. The kids never get a teacher has the traits of a real bloke.
    Key helped the girl present herself for the camera in a better way – after all he should know.
    But this attack on Key is obviously someone in the media who will use any method to discredit John Key.

    Hello Rachel, your mike is on

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  249. eszett (2,337 comments) says:

    Ryan Sproull (6,595 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 6:04 pm

    “…All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”

    Best not forget that ridiculous untruths enter that first stage too – and kind of stay there.

    Indeed, it’s stupid to conclude from such a quote that if something is ridiculed or opposed it is evidently true.

    In fact the more someone presents this quote as “evidence” the more likely it is that the ridicule is justified.

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  250. Ryan Sproull (7,033 comments) says:

    This person is the reason why my grandkids are taught by sniveling socialist teachers – and the man teachers are girly boys, wimps, sooks. The kids never get a teacher has the traits of a real bloke.

    Is a real bloke the kind of person who calls others “girly boys, wimps and sooks”? If so, there’s plenty of real blokes around. They’re students at high schools.

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  251. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    No, like “Pizza Hutt is putting mind-control drugs in the pepperoni”.

    the conspiracy-theory label was popularized as a pejorative putdown by the CIA in a global propaganda program to attack critics of the Warren Commission ’s conclusion that President Kennedy was assassinated by a lone gunman with no government foreknowledge or assistance. The CIA campaign called on foreign media corporations and journalists to criticize “conspiracy theorists” and raise questions about their motives and judgments. Any and all criticisms of the lone – gunman account of the assassination were lumped together as “conspiracy theories,” declared groundless and pernicious, and attributed to ulterior motives and the influence of communist propagandists.

    and

    http://truthandshadows.wordpress.com/2012/08/15/contrived-ridicule-of-conspiracy-theories-really-means-stop-questioning-stop-thinking/

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  252. Ryan Sproull (7,033 comments) says:

    Reid, I didn’t say your theories are ridiculous because they are conspiracy theories. I said that just because a theory is ridiculed, that does not mean it’s true.

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  253. Harriet (4,524 comments) says:

    “…….A seminar at a Northland church tomorrow offering to help people overcome their “same-sex attraction issues” has sparked a furore on social media and in the gay community.

    The talk, at Paihia’s Baptist Church, was advertised in Mid North community newspapers this week. The ad invited anyone who had problems with same-sex attraction, or a loved one who did, to hear the life story of a man who had overcome his issues.

    He and his wife had helped many others, the ad said.

    The backlash started with a post on the Northland Grapevine Facebook page, which had more than 230 comments by noon yesterday.

    Comments ranged from those who were appalled by the implication that being gay was a condition that had to be overcome, to those who defended the church’s right to host the talk or were concerned by what they saw as a threat to free speech.

    Others saw the reaction against the talk as a sign of how far society had progressed in its acceptance of different expressions of sexuality.

    The church’s Facebook page has been swamped with comments criticising the talk.

    Pastor Bill Anderson did not wish to comment, saying only that it was a “calm, quiet little ad extending an offer of help to people who are hurting inside”.

    He was disappointed with the attacks on him and the church, and that many people only seemed to show an interest in the church when there was controversy.

    The Ohaeawai woman whose Facebook post sparked the furore, Alissa Gibbs, said she was “really riled” by the ad at first.

    “I don’t think that sort of intolerance has a place in our little community. I wanted to draw it to people’s attention, I didn’t expect such a backlash and I didn’t intend people to jump down the church’s throat.”

    However, she stood by her views that the ad was unacceptable. If someone was genuinely unhappy or confused by their sexuality, they should seek help from a trained professional, “not from someone who’s prayed their gay away”.

    Ms Gibbs said she was considering a peaceful protest……” ——NZ Herald.

    ———————————————————-

    You don’t need a ‘trained professional’ —– placing other concerns of personal importance over sexual urge – or any other desire – is a natural and common act that all humans have been doing daily and mankind has been doing for thousands of years. And she then implies that to help people to do that is ‘intolerant’ – hardly!!

    As always, this discussion of homosexuality is terrified of etiology: from where it comes from!

    It is the great bracketing off, no matter what the discourse venue: psychology, social-historical analysis, theology, politics. The question must be ever mystified as the Great Unknown. Those who ask are shamed. It is the insistence upon that refusal which makes this issue of homosexuality so politically explosive.

    Yet – the question about the etiology of homosexuality is NOT closed off. And oddly , we have no problem discussing AND identifying the etiology of pedophilia!

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  254. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    The “conspiracy theory” is older than the “Donation of Constantine” and the “Holy” Roman Empire of Charlemagne.

    The CIA did not invent the label, just noted that regime change is of a regime change inheritance and this has a history.

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  255. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    I said that just because a theory is ridiculed, that does not mean it’s true.

    I agree but why didn’t you just say that? And why pray tell would anyone promulgate a theory in order to test its truth or falsity depending on the degree of ridicule it received?

    You surely don’t think UT, myself and one or two others do this for fun? Speaking for myself I do it so that when future world events unfold even years hence some people will have a vague memory of these online conversations and will know where to start looking for answers. I don’t need to explain to others what I already know because I already know it and if anyone thinks I do it to win people over, think again, I know people better than that. This stuff takes years to process. Literally.

    But conflict and calamity are on the near horizon notwithstanding many to most people think the economy is doing great and when Obama leaves and we get a “sensible” Republican in the WH then global things will pick up again, as they always have. UT and I and a few others already know that’s not going to happen. So speaking for myself, I’m simply leaving breadcrumbs for those with eyes to see and ears to hear, even if right now, they’re not doing either of those things.

    The CIA did not invent the label, just noted that regime change is of a regime change inheritance and this has a history.

    What they did SGA was tie a subconscious pavlovian emotional reaction to it. Just like advertisers do when they sell a product on TV. It happens all the time.

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  256. Ryan Sproull (7,033 comments) says:

    Reid,

    I was responding to your 5.49 comment about how truth begins by being ridiculed.

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  257. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    “Luckily for him I’m a Christian, so I forgive him.”

    A: No, your “christianity” is really a form of Gnostic heresy.

    B: I would not be remotely concerned if you hadn’t. Not that I think you really have.

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  258. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    Wied, I have no conscious problem with government “raising questions about motives and judgements” of those who criticise their policies, actions and cover ups. Nor should they when citizens do the same about their motives and judgements in policy, action and cover ups.

    It’s all part of the give and take of free speech.

    Of course the inferences of the tin foil hat variety are meant to infer psychologically challenged and weak minded people … and they do have the tech to intimidate ….

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  259. Ryan Sproull (7,033 comments) says:

    You surely don’t think UT, myself and one or two others do this for fun?

    I thought we established the other day that UglyTruth is paid by the Israeli government to undermine legitimate opposition to the policies and actions of the Israeli government by associating that opposition with crazy racist rantings.

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  260. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    I forgive you for bearing false witness against me Shawn. Again. That’s the 7th isn’t it? Commandment I mean.

    P.S. I’m disappointed you haven’t responded to the evaporation challenge yet. Looking forward to your explanation.

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  261. Harriet (4,524 comments) says:

    “…All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident……”

    Yeah……and for a good example…… ” ‘straight’ means going forward.” :cool:

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  262. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    “You surely don’t think UT, myself and one or two others do this for fun?”

    You and UT do it to convince yourselves. Somewhere in the back of your mind you know that your conspiracy theories are untenable, so you spend vast amounts of time desperately trying to convince others in the hopes of having your delusions confirmed. And if you get a lot of opposition, then you take that as confirmation of your delusions as well.

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  263. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    No, you really don’t “forgive me” Reid, your just mouthing platitudes and parading, like the Pharisees, your sense of self-righteousness. As to bearing false witness, I suspect God’s got a few issues with your false witness with regards to Jews and Israel.

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  264. UglyTruth (4,004 comments) says:

    You and UT do it to convince yourselves

    Did the voices in your head tell you that, or did you make it up all by yourself?

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  265. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    No reid the false witness commandment is number 9, though those who distinguish between coveting another mans wife and another mans ass call it number 8 (having one God as part of the same commandment as having no idols allows them to do this and yet keep their count to 10).

    There is no link between Sabbath day keeping and bearing false witness except that where having time off work combined with access to the internet …

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  266. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    Andrew Johnstone – facebook
    · Edited · .Fascinating feature article in this months MiNDFOOD magazine about women’s heart health. 48 Kiwi women die from largely preventable heart disease every week. Former PM Jenny Shipley suffered a heart attack at the age of 48. After reading her story I got to thinking about her legacy. An unpopular PM who turned Kiwi against kiwi with her ‘dob in a bludger’ campaign, she belongs to that group of right wing thinkers that resent the social welfare system and use the worst kind of rhetoric and tactics to undermine its validity, and yet she herself has gleaned a rather sumptuous lifestyle from the public purse all her adult life, first as an MP then as a govt minister and now as a highly paid government ‘consultant’. Her arrogance and divisive politics makes it hard for me to use her conferred title of Dame.

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  267. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    You and UT do it to convince yourselves.

    Once again I forgive you for bearing false witness against me Shawn.

    Somewhere in the back of your mind you know that your conspiracy theories are untenable

    No I don’t put in writing that which I don’t truly believe, unless it’s as a joke which you can usually tell as such. But I’m not disingenuous in the sense you suggest neither consciously or subconsciously.

    I know it’s extremely bizarre to you and others. I do realise that. Remember, I know your worldview because it used to be mine and it still is. As I’ve explained the worldview I now have is in addition to not in place of that former worldview. And it’s only when you get that additional worldview that things fall into place and it’s not easy to get there but logic is the answer.

    It’s the old Conan-Doyle dicta: Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however absurd, has to be the case.

    The reason why you think the way you still do about the world is because your “impossible” is that 911 could not possibly be faked. It simply couldn’t be. Too many people would have talked. Blah blah blah. And that’s where your thinking stops. That’s why you can’t bear to go to the real sites that detail the allegations because as soon as you start a page, any page, your mind screams ‘this is nuts, forget it’ and you get back to your comfort zone.

    Ask yourself: what’s that voice and where’s it coming from. And know that it’s as subtle as Satan’s voice when he tempts you. It’s not Satan, it’s your conditioning, but it’s as subtle as he is.

    And just like Christians need to first discern and then overcome Satan’s voice so too is the worldly process of following the logical evidence, eliminating the impossible and then analysing whatever is left, however absurd.

    Millions if not billions see through different parts of the veil all the time. Muslims, Asians and most East Europeans for example I daresay have no problem seeing 911 for what it is because they don’t have the Western media meme machine shouting at them. Many conservatives see straight through the AGW meme because it’s pitched at tree-huggers, many liberals see straight through the ‘war on tewwor’ meme because it’s pitched at conservatives who think the best defence is a good offence.

    Logic is the key. Follow Conan-Doyle.

    Edit: Thanks SPC, appreciate the correction.

    No, you really don’t “forgive me” Reid, your just mouthing platitudes and parading, like the Pharisees, your sense of self-righteousness. As to bearing false witness, I suspect God’s got a few issues with your false witness with regards to Jews and Israel.

    Edit edit: Once again I forgive you for bearing false witness against me Shawn. Luckily there is no commandment about being incorrect so no forgiveness required for your second “suspicion.”

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  268. ShawnLH (3,475 comments) says:

    Reid, real forgiveness is the reason your tongue is still attached to your body after insulting my wife.

    And the above rant is exactly what I’m talking about. Your just trying desperately to convince yourself.

    Respond to this of you like, but I won’t see it as I’m out for the rest of the night.

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  269. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    The enlightenment. :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kcqekcsjg4zg508/Faith%206.jpg

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  270. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    I didn’t insult your wife, and I forgive you for bearing false witness against me for that.

    I brought her into the conversation and asked what would she think of you for saying the things you were saying. If you think that’s an insult to her then you need to re-schedule some surgery because something went very wrong indeed.

    As you know forgiveness involves letting things go and it also mean people are still held to account so if you do think I insulted her then I ask nay demand you paste my own words plus your own comment it was in response to, so we can all see what I actually said the other night.

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  271. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    Trepanning always was a risky, last ditch treatment option Reid. :)

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  272. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    I wish I could respond nasska but I’m pretending that Shawn is my friend.

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  273. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    A policeman pulled over a driver who had been weaving in and out of the traffic. He approached the car window and said “Sir I need you to blow into this breathalyser”.

    The man reaches into his pocket and produces a doctor’s note. On it was written: “This man suffers from chronic asthma. Do not make him perform any action that may leave him short of breath”.

    The policeman said “Okay then I need you to come and give a blood sample”. The man produced another letter.

    This one said: “This man is a haemophiliac. Please do not cause him to bleed in any way”.

    So the officer said: “Right, I need a urine sample then”.

    The man produces a third letter from his pocket. It read: “This man supports the Hurricanes. Please don’t take the piss out of him”.

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  274. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Just in case ye were getting too matey wi that Shawn baistard Reid!

    Two Irishmen, Patrick Murphy and Shawn O’Brian grew up together and were lifelong friends. But alas, Patrick developed cancer, and was dying. While on his deathbed, Patrick called to his buddy, Shawn, “O’Brian, come ‘ere. I ‘ave a request for ye.” Shawn walked to his friend’s bedside and kneels.

    “Shawny ole boy, we’ve been friends all our lives, and now I’m leaving ‘ere. I ‘ave one last request fir ye to do.”

    O’Brian burst into tears, “Anything Patrick, anything ye wish. It’s done.”

    “Well, under me bed is a box containing a bottle of the finest whiskey in all of Ireland. Bottled the year I was born it was. After I die, and they plant me in the ground, I want you to pour that fine whiskey over me grave so it might soak into me bones and I’ll be able to enjoy it for all eternity.”

    O’Brian was overcome by the beauty and in the true Irish spirit of his friend’s request, he asked, “Aye, tis a fine thing you ask of me, and I will pour the whiskey. But, might I strain it through me kidneys first?”

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  275. lofty (1,303 comments) says:

    Courtesy of ol Remus and the woodpile blog. (Worth a visit)

    Ol’ Remus doesn’t believe in climate change, and he doesn’t find climate all that convincing. Hear him out.

    Like most folks, if it’s a warm day he’ll get warm. And if it’s raining he’ll get wet. Or cold if it’s cold. And every day contains clues about what’s coming next. That’s about as far as a normal person oughtta be concerned. The trouble starts when we generalize.

    For instance: weather. What’s it mean? It’s a concept once-removed from the real an’ actual, like lunch is different from an actual tuna sandwich. Lunch is anything you eat between breakfast and supper. A tuna sandwich is always a tuna sandwich. Simple and reliable.

    Same idea: weather doesn’t get you wet, the rain does. Weather can be snow or rain or sunshine. It can all happen in the same day and still be the weather. It’s not like that with, say, rain. It’s either rain or it isn’t. Rain’s a real, tangible thing. Weather’s a notion.

    Weather gets expressed in isobars and fronts and pressure areas. Rain gets expressed in water falling on you from outta the sky, you know, rain. Maybe it’s a useful concept, to someone, this weather notion, ‘though it mainly seems like a superfluous ten-foot pole.

    Nobody Remus knows says “the weather is falling outta the sky and getting everything wet.” Seems to him the main use of the weather concept is to express ignorance, such as “how’s the weather?” or “what’s the weather for tomorrow?” Nobody asks “how’s the rain?” We’re smarter than that. It’s wet. But it gets worse.

    Somebody got the bright idea to take it all a step further and call the normal range of weather “climate.” Notice there’s no word for the abnormal range of weather. There’s no such thing. The range is the range. Simple honesty tells us no standard deviations need apply, no seasonal adjustments accepted, no persuasion allowed. But they do and they are.

    Because climate is a manipulable concept once-removed from weather, and weather is a concept once-removed from, say, actual rain, climate is an intangible piled higher than its natural angle of repose allows. Maybe it’s a useful concept, this climate notion, though it seems too derivative to be compelling for anyone other than chambers of commerce.

    Somebody got the idea to take it all a step further and invent climate change (formerly, global warming), meaning they compared one part of the climate with another part and discovered they were different. Well, duh, they’re different parts. Couldn’t be any other way. It was just here somebody saw an opportunity, or said another way, here’s where Simple Simon met the pieman.

    If the truth is inconvenient it follows a lie is convenient , so they made up a whole ‘nother climate “on spec”, attached one end to the present, stapled the other end onto the future, conveniently, called it “climate change”, waved it around and demanded we should go hungry in the dark now so we won’t go hungry in the dark later. Huh? And for the privilege we should pay them, now and forever. Just to keep things honest, any challenge that doesn’t rely wholly on their analysis is a criminal act, or near enough. Convenience, iron clad.

    Ol’ Remus is way north of suspicious now. He thinks he’s seen this movie. Maybe it was The Sting. He thinks we’ve allowed some fast-talkers a few slippery concepts too many. Whatever usefulness they may have is costing us more than they’re worth. Sometimes more really is less.

    Ol’ Remus is willing to accept the notion of weather, ’cause he’s easily as ignorant as the next man, but he’ll go no further than allowing for seasons. Even aside from the convenient lies they’ve admitted so far, it’s all quite dubious, so um, no. He neither believes nor accepts climate change, not as presented and probably not at all.

    Neither does Lofty!

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  276. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Speaking of Oirish Idjits! :)

    Two nuns, Sister Marilyn and Sister Helen, are traveling through Europe in their car. They get to Transylvania and are stopped at a traffic light. Suddenly, out of nowhere, a diminutive Dracula jumps onto the hood of the car and hisses through the windshield.

    “Turn the windshield wipers on. That will get rid of the abomination,” says Sister Helen.

    Sister Marilyn switches them on, knocking Dracula about, but he clings on and continues hissing at the nuns. “What shall I do now?” she shouts.

    Sister Marilyn turned on the windshield washer. Dracula screams as the water burns his skin, but he clings on and continues hissing at the nuns. “Now what?” shouts Sister Marilyn.

    “Show him your cross,” says Sister Helen.

    “Now you’re talking,” says Sister Marilyn as she opens the window and shouts, “Get the fuck off our car!”

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  277. Harriet (4,524 comments) says:

    “…..The enlightenment…..”

    The Bible is not written to explain science but to explain wisdom, and pass on knowledge, wisdom and the Truth. :cool:

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  278. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Nasska,

    Weather is not climate. Climate is to weather as newtons law of cooling is to the path of a single particle.

    As to following the money I cant say I’ve heard of many wealthy climatologists. Hardly seems the road to riches if thats what they care about.

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  279. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    And here was me thinking Al Gore wasn’t on the bones of his arse Weihana! :)

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  280. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    A couple are at an Art exhibition and they are looking at a portrait that has them a little taken aback.
    The picture depicts three very black, very naked men sitting on a park bench; two have a black penis and the one in the middle has a pink penis.
    As the couple are looking somewhat puzzled at the picture, the Irish artist walks by and says, “can I help you with this painting. I’m the artist who painted it.”
    The man says, “well, we like the painting but don’t understand why you have three African men on a bench, and the one in the middle has a pink penis while the other two have black penises.”
    The Irish artist says, “oh, you are misinterpreting the painting. They are not African men, they are Irish coal miners, and the one in the middle went home for lunch.”

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  281. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Miss O’Leary, the church organist, was in her eighties and had never been married. She was much admired for her sweetness and kindness to all. The parish priest came to call on her one afternoon early in the spring, and she welcomed him into her little cottage. She invited him to have a seat while she made the tea. As he sat facing her old pump organ, the priest noticed a cut glass bowl sitting on top of it, filled with water. In the water floated, of all things, an item the menfolk use to help prevent conception. Imagine his shock and surprise. Imagine his curiosity! Surely Miss O’Leary had lost her senses! When she returned with the tea and scones, they began to chat. The priest tried to stifle his curiosity about the bowl of water and its unusual contents, but soon it got the better of him; he could resist no longer. Miss O’Leary,” he said, “I wonder if you would tell me about this?” (pointing to the bowl). “Oh, yes, Father,” she replied, “Isn’t it wonderful? I was walking in the village last October and I found this little package on the ground. The directions said to put it on the organ, keep it wet, and it would prevent disease. And you know… I haven’t had a cold all winter.

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  282. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    ….”As to following the money I cant say I’ve heard of many wealthy climatologists”….

    They wouldn’t have to pay them very much Weihana. There’s only one outfit hiring them & all they have to do is produce the ordained answers.

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  283. Sponge (145 comments) says:

    I have no desire to get into an argument with any of the truthers. But if this is all some sort of conspiracy then how has this been kept so secret?

    There would have to be significant numbers of people planning and plotting to bring something like this off and I simply cannot believe that verifiable proof of the conspiracy would not have leaked out. Governments are useless at keeping secrets (wikileaks anyone?) and it just does not bear scrutiny. And yes I am aware of a mentally ill woman who claimed she was involved in planning it all and no doubt her being “mentally ill” is part of the conspiracy too.

    And for the love of god don’t point at some video produced to prove your point. The shrill abuse from the truthers when you don’t agree that a video produced by some bloke in a basement is definitive proof that there is some massive conspiracy is pathetic.

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  284. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    nasska (9,423 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 8:27 pm

    ….”As to following the money I cant say I’ve heard of many wealthy climatologists”….

    They wouldn’t have to pay them very much Weihana. There’s only one outfit hiring them & all they have to do is produce the ordained answers.
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    :lol:all the wack— ohs on kb tonight

    . We have nasska going global conspicocy of evil sientists and a one word govertment.

    Nasska the IPCC total payed employess 12

    what a full on wingnut :lol: ;

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  285. mikenmild (10,760 comments) says:

    Now, now griffith. nasska is a good chap usually; he’s good at poking fun at the religiously deluded but has a bit of a blind spot about AGW. We all have our faults: you for example are good on AGW but very weak on NZ history. It’s swings and roundabouts and a little tolerance goes a long way.

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  286. UglyTruth (4,004 comments) says:

    But if this is all some sort of conspiracy then how has this been kept so secret?

    It’s not a secret. Some believe it, some don’t.

    There would have to be significant numbers of people planning and plotting to bring something like this off and I simply cannot believe that verifiable proof of the conspiracy would not have leaked out.

    Verifiable proof of conspiracy has leaked out.

    http://donaldfox.wordpress.com/tag/dimona/

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  287. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    Griff

    It’s a game & we’ll never be the winners….it wasn’t designed to be that way.

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nqcazv3uizryhc1/Climate%20Crap%202.gif

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  288. Sponge (145 comments) says:

    Verifiable proof of conspiracy has leaked out.

    No UT you have pointed to the bloke in the basement I spoke of – I won’t waste my time reading conspiracy sites. What I would need to see to convince me is independent proof as in the sort that [serious not spurious] “legal action is underway for the great wrong that was committed in the destruction of the WTC” or “30 CIA operatives testify that US Government planed miniature nuclear bombs in the WTC” or “Wikileaks cables show US planned WTC destruction”.

    I could create my own website tonight saying that the WTC was brought down by angry smurfs and I could provide any number of reasons for this and most likely even video evidence. Christ knows there is enough footage off it that a video could be found to prove any theory.

    I just can’t see how a government that cockes everything else up could get something like this right.

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  289. Judith (7,643 comments) says:

    I thought I had a reasonable understanding of 911 and climate change, and was sorted as far as religion went, until I started reading this thread. Now I’m not sure whether climate change caused 911, or vice versa, and are leaning towards it being all being the work of the two nuns and a couple of Irish men.

    Bring back DPF !!! Before they start on UFO’s.

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  290. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Griff is weak in nz history ;lol:
    loser mike
    The treaty bullshiters are weak on nz history.

    Te are nz This is the suggested leaning resource for New Zealand school students on the treaty. The figures they use for the maori genocide of up to 20.000 do not match the historical record or any reputable estimates of the carnage of the musket wars. reputable historys Moon and king both say at lest 25000 and probably far more, The actual estimates at the time give up to 50.000

    they also totally fail to examine the slave based economy of maori 1800 to 1850 and use the evil settlers meme which is based on a few missionary wowsers complaining about the local bars.As well they allege maori disquite with land sales this was actually more of a fight between the catholic and Anglican missions over who had brought the best land in the boi

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  291. mikenmild (10,760 comments) says:

    Like I say: we all have our weaknesses.

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  292. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    Judith

    But we’ve got UFOs scheduled for tomorrow morning. :)

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  293. mikenmild (10,760 comments) says:

    Hope they’re the Nazi UFOs from the Antarctic kind!

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  294. wat dabney (3,672 comments) says:

    The Antarctic Nazi UFOs are all iced-in at the moment.

    Remember the record high ice extent down there.

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  295. Sponge (145 comments) says:

    wat dabney (3,413 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 9:26 pm
    The Antarctic Nazi UFOs are all iced-in at the moment.

    Remember the record high ice extent down there

    Wouldn’t the space lasers melt the ice fairly easily???? Has the US govt and Israel got some sinister plot underway to prevent the alien space lasers working so the simple folks don’t get to hear about or see the Nazi UFO’s?

    It a another bloody conspiracy!

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  296. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Bugger the wind speed at CAPE FLATTERY
    has hit 49 kn gusting 66 and appears to be jammed on this value
    I so wanted to see over 160 kn of wind register in this storm
    http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDQ60801/IDQ60801.94188.shtml

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  297. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    50 gusting 83kn
    153kmh gust and they are four-hours from the center yet

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  298. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    And I just had to google…

    http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/antarctica/antartica11.htm

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  299. Anthony (768 comments) says:

    Not one single blog post on here today – that must be some kind of record! Probably a bit like a whiteboard for new ideas for Labour’s election campaign!

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  300. Sir Cullen's Sidekick (788 comments) says:

    I will make the 300th comment by saying David Cunliffe is increasing his chances of becoming PM by not saying any dumb things for two days…..

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  301. Sponge (145 comments) says:

    Sir Cullen’s Sidekick (503 comments) says:
    April 11th, 2014 at 10:59 pm

    Has he been kidnapped?

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  302. Manolo (13,378 comments) says:

    The Messiah’s hypocrisy: http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2014/04/11/president-obama-and-vice-president-biden-s-2013-tax-returns

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  303. Duxton (581 comments) says:

    Yoza: “Yes, it was a bit impulsive. I don’t really believe Key is that way inclined…..”

    Unlike a former Labour Minister of Education, who seemingly was ‘that way inclined’…. ;-)

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