The Internet-Mana Party

May 27th, 2014 at 12:27 pm by David Farrar

Stuff reports:

Mana and the have confirmed they will contest this year’s election together in a party to be called Internet-Mana. …

The agreement will see a combined party registered to contest the election although the parties will remain separate outside Parliament.

The Internet- will be led by Harawira who will also be number one on the combined party’s list, with the leader of the Internet Party at two. The next two spots will belong to Mana members.

The Internet Party leader will be announced on Thursday.

Here’s a question for online detectives.

The Internet Party major reason for existing is Internet issues (well actually to stop an extradition, but in theory Internet issues). S the first question is how often has the Mana Party or Hone Harawira (as a Mana MP) spoken on Internet issues before the merger was floated? Once or twice? Any policies? Any meetings?

A search of the Mana Party website shows they have only once mentioned the word “Internet” before the merger was floated.

Now likewise the Mana Party is primarily a Maori nationalistic party. So again how often has Kim Dotcom spoken on Maori or Treaty issues before the merger was floated?

The deal would see the Internet Party provide significant financial resources although both men refused to say how much, saying it was still being worked out.

Lots.

So here’s how the voting will work. Assume Hone will win Te Tai Tokerau (which is not a given as his constituents may not be keen on being purchased by a guy who allegedly doesn’t even pay his staff minimum wages). So how it will work

  • Below 0.4% – seat is an overhang
  • 0.4 – 1.1% – 1 MP – Hone Harawira
  • 1.2% – 1.9% – Internet Party leader gets in
  • 2.0% to 2.7% – Annette Sykes gets in
  • 2.8% – 3.5% – John Minto gets in
  • 3.6% + – a second Internet Party MP

UPDATE: Whale reports that Sue Bradford has quit Mana saying:

“Sucking up to German millionaires is not my vision of the future”

Sue has shown she remains a person of principle.

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61 Responses to “The Internet-Mana Party”

  1. NK (1,259 comments) says:

    And these guys have the gall to go on about deals between National, Act & United Future? This is the most disgraceful and sleazy deal since MMP came into our lives in 1996. It lowers the bar significantly.

    Don’t you just love MMP!

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  2. chris (647 comments) says:

    History is repeating itself. The Maori sold out to the white man in the 1800s for blankets and guns, and people like Hone moan and moan about how they have been so hard done by, and continue to be. So what does he do? Sell out to the white man.

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  3. virtualmark (1,306 comments) says:

    So Hone, you’ve sold out Maoridom for a few blankets & muskets eh?

    When you look back at this debacle after the election maybe the benefit of experience will help you realise your ancestors selling land to the white man wasn’t theft by the Pakeha as much as naked greed and short-term thinking by the Maori.

    I’m sure those ancestors would be so proud of you now, selling out to the rich white man. Where’s the mana?

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  4. Inky_the_Red (764 comments) says:

    Internationally it is common for parties that are very different to stand together in elections.

    Chile, Italy, Albania and Venezuela come to mind immediately

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  5. davidp (3,585 comments) says:

    Seats for sale. This is the sort of corruption you’d expect in Italy or Argentina.

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  6. Chuck Bird (4,910 comments) says:

    There is a simple solution for John Key to prevent this happening again if he is successful this time. That is have a binding referendum on the retention of Maori seats.

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  7. mara (770 comments) says:

    This is political prostitution. Ugly. Good on you Sue Bradford for bailing out.

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  8. Viking2 (11,681 comments) says:

    NK. He was also the most vocal MP when it came to trashing Clarks attempt rearrange political funding via the Electoral finance Act and if you didn’t see his speech in Parliament about this then look it up. . The Nats, went all quiet as they do.

    Just saying cause I have no reason to support Hone but he has had some good things to his name.

    : Whale reports that Sue Bradford has quit Mana saying:

    “Sucking up to German millionaires is not my vision of the future”

    Sue has shown she remains a person of principle.
    Share this:

    Some principle. Communism. FFS you have moved so far left you no longer recognise the difference. SAD really.

    A search of the Mana Party website shows they have only once mentioned the word “Internet” before the merger was floated.

    Well if we had searched the Nats. website before the election would we have found anything that referred to tax increases or any inkling that they were going to borrow 60 billion dollars? That Findlayson was going to give out open ended pseudo settlements to Maori and so on?

    Not saying some of this was not necessary and vital, just pointing out the hypocrisy of your spin.

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  9. Tarquin North (400 comments) says:

    Desperation makes for strange bedfellows. Hopefully this will be the final nail in the coffin for both organisations. They are after all only cults of personality not real political parties.

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  10. NK (1,259 comments) says:

    Internationally it is common for parties that are very different to stand together in elections.

    Chile, Italy, Albania and Venezuela come to mind immediately

    All shining examples of democracy, freedom and liberty.

    Well done Inky. Surely this is the non sequitur of the year.

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  11. Monty (899 comments) says:

    I love that Hone, John Minto, and Annette Sykes have all be bought by a fat racist Rich capitalist who lives in a mansion, have an enviable car collection and loves Adolf hitler. You just could not imagine this ever happening. And then with 3% ( mainly taken from the greens! someone is going to have to explain to the voting public how Cunliffe will manage hue coalition of losers made up of factions and an incoherent policy platform ? And once past the incoherent policy platform we will have Cunliffe trying to manage the egos of the losers. Grant R, Trevor, Russel, the castle owner, Winston (if he is still alive), hone, Kim dot com(outside parliament but wanting payback) and even the Maori party (who are the only sensible voice in the whole lot). And Cunliffe will need to do this everyday for three years.

    Really? Would any sane person actually think this could possible go three years? Or three weeks will be the limit?

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  12. georgebolwing (1,011 comments) says:

    To me, the ultimate irony is that KDC’s business model, and thus the wealth he is going to contribute to this alliance, is based on disregarding property rights, while Mana’s core, fundamental principal is that Maori property rights, as expressed in the Treaty of Waitangi, should be respected (and have been disregarded in the past).

    Have the principals of these parties never had a discussion of core values, or is each just blinded by the lure of an unholy alliance delivering short-term political gain?

    That the result of this might actually be determinative of the future government of this country is shocking. This is real grown-up stuff, and I am not sure that the children involved appreciate what they are doing.

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  13. s.russell (1,650 comments) says:

    The two parties have one thing in common, and only one: hate. Isn’t it wonderful how hate can bring people together!

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  14. Manolo (14,173 comments) says:

    Will Kim DotCom nominate his employee, the brilliant legal eagle Graeme Edgeler, as his party leader?
    It seems money is not an obstacle.

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  15. Matthew Hooton (135 comments) says:

    Could Graeme Edgeler or Andrew Geddis give a bit of a briefing about how an electorate win for a registered party called “Mana” lead to list MPs for another registered party called “Internet Mana”? That is, could Act, whatever remains of Libertarianz, and maybe Conservatives and UnitedFuture, form a similar new party and get list MPs because David Seymour won Epson for another registered party called Act, or Peter Dunne for one called UnitedFuture?

    Not proposing this but interested in what part of electoral law would allow it.

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  16. Viking2 (11,681 comments) says:

    Hooton. Can’t you read?

    The agreement will see a combined party registered to contest the election although the parties will remain separate outside Parliament.

    In DPF’s post.

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  17. kowtow (8,945 comments) says:

    Rent a maniac Party.

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  18. Brian Smaller (3,966 comments) says:

    So will Hone be referring to Krim Dot Con as a White Mother-Fuhrer?

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  19. Peter (1,695 comments) says:

    The question on many lips is whether that colossus of New Zealand political strategy, Marty “Rove” Bradbury, will be getting a new laptop out of all this?

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  20. Inky_the_Red (764 comments) says:

    NK (981 comments) says:
    May 27th, 2014 at 12:44 pm

    Well done Inky. Surely this is the non sequitur of the year.

    Three of the 4 countries I listed have had a change of Government in the last 3 years resulting from general elections.

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  21. geoff3012 (77 comments) says:

    Matthew Hooton (117 comments) says:
    May 27th, 2014 at 12:52 pm
    Could Graeme Edgeler or Andrew Geddis give a bit of a briefing about how an electorate win for a registered party called “Mana” lead to list MPs for another registered party called “Internet Mana”? That is, could Act, whatever remains of Libertarianz, and maybe Conservatives and UnitedFuture, form a similar new party and get list MPs because David Seymour won Epson for another registered party called Act, or Peter Dunne for one called UnitedFuture?

    Great idea……somebody should be on to this pronto!

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  22. Cunningham (846 comments) says:

    Please, please, please let this be the end of the Mana party. Hats off to Bradford. I diagree with everything you stand for but at leaast you had the courage to not sell out.

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  23. Redbaiter (10,443 comments) says:

    Bring back first past the post.

    National could have engineered it if they’d ever generated the guts TO STAND FOR IT.

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  24. georgebolwing (1,011 comments) says:

    Matthew: you are also forgetting history.

    The “Alliance” was a registered political party that submitted a list of candidates at the 1996 and 1999 elections. Originally, you could not be a member of the Alliance, only one of its five constituent parties (NewLabour, the Greens, the Democrats, Mana Motuhake and the Liberals) and there was an agreement by which members of those parties were allocated places on the list thus submitted.

    This is exactly what Internet-Mana are doing. I understand it to be perfectly legal. One issue, however, is whether they will have time between now and the election to go through the registration process.

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  25. Unity (643 comments) says:

    It couldn’t happen to two nicer people!! (sarcasm) What a combination. It’s amazing how money talks isn’t it. They are both using each other obviously.

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  26. AG (1,833 comments) says:

    @Matthew Hooten,

    Answer is in s.1914(b)(ii) of the Electoral Act … because Mana is a “component party” of the Internet-Mana Party, a win by Harawira (or any other Mana or Internet Party candidate) gets the Internet-Mana Party over the threshold needed for list seats. So they can run separate “Mana” and “Internet Party” candidates at the electorate level, but will be on the party vote part of the ballot as the “Internet-Mana Party”.

    As for your question about ACT/Libertarianz/Conservatives/etc doing the same thing … yes, they can.

    Oh – and for those thinking that this all stinks, remember that the Electoral Commission recommended abolishing the electorate lifeboat rule after the 2011 referendum. And remember that it was National that effectively vetoed that recommendation being adopted. Just sayin’.

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  27. Matthew Hooton (135 comments) says:

    Found it, and the arrangement looks legitimate. From Electoral Act 1993:

    191Election of other members
    (1)When the Electoral Commission has received from all Returning Officers the information required by section 179(1) to be forwarded to the Electoral Commission, the Electoral Commission must proceed to determine which of the candidates whose names have been included in party lists submitted pursuant to section 127 have been elected.
    (2)The Electoral Commission must first ascertain from the information given under section 179(1)(a) the total number of all the party votes received by each of the parties listed on the part of the ballot paper that relates to the party vote.
    (3)The Electoral Commission must enter those totals in separate columns under the name of each party in a working sheet in the manner prescribed in form 15.
    (4)The Electoral Commission must disregard any total under the name of any party that—
    (a)has not achieved a total that is at least 5% of the total number of all the party votes received by all the parties listed on the part of the ballot paper that relates to the party vote; and
    (b)is a party in respect of which no constituency candidate who is either—
    (i)a candidate for that party; or
    (ii)a candidate for a component party of that party (being a component party that is not listed on the part of the ballot paper that relates to the party vote but is, in accordance with the details held by the Electoral Commission under any of the provisions of sections 127(3A) and 128A, a component party of that party)—
    has had his or her name endorsed on the writ pursuant to section 185 as a person declared to be elected as a member of Parliament.

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  28. burt (7,428 comments) says:

    It’s obvious that Dotcom should have established his own ‘German Party’ – or would it be racist for a white person to have a political party based on race ?

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  29. iMP (2,457 comments) says:

    I think there must be a credible challenge under the E.Act that “Internet” is a legitimate party.

    • Can I see their constitution, Board, have they held attended party meetings, an AGM, and all the other criteria that constitute a legitimate political party?
    • Have their candidates been elected democratically by the membership?
    • I would also challenge that clicking a button on a website and paying 0.99c (or whatever it was) would be challengeable, ie as to whether there were 500 legitimate “party members” or not.

    The Commission should review that carefully, ala United Future.

    MMPP – Mixed Member Prostituted Politics.

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  30. burt (7,428 comments) says:

    iMP

    • Have their candidates been elected democratically by the membership?

    We’re not talking about Labour and the unions in this thread.

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  31. AG (1,833 comments) says:

    Further comment …

    That is, could Act, whatever remains of Libertarianz, and maybe Conservatives and UnitedFuture, form a similar new party and get list MPs because David Seymour won Epson for another registered party called Act, or Peter Dunne for one called UnitedFuture?

    Assuming that this party was set up (with, say, ACT/Conservatives/UF involved) .. and assume Seymour and Dunne win their seats … who is first on the combined party list? Because if the combined party got 2 electorate seats, then it’ll need 2% to elect a third MP (the first on its list – surely Colin Craig) … and 2.8% to get a fourth (from which of the 3 parties?) … and 3.5% to get a fifth (again, from which party?). Meaning that ACT & UF have to ask themselves, are we any more likely to get more MPs using this scheme than we are running by ourselves?

    So the idea is simple. The practical problem of deciding how to divvy up any potential representation between the various component parties is the real killer.

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  32. Warren Murray (316 comments) says:

    Looking at most recent polls, Mana’s vote fluctuates quite a bit, between zero and 1.5%. I think there’s a good chance it could get two seats if the ball bounces the right way on polling day.

    That will see the party get a very handy boost in its parliamentary funding and would put Hone ahead of Act, United Future and possibly the Maori Party (I believe that the Maori Party will lose Te Tai Haururu, and may also lose Tamaki Makaurau, and that Act and UF will not increase their current numbers in parliament).

    The real kicker is that if KDC flees or is extradited, his party will founder. if Kumar steps down, Sykes takes the vacant seat.

    I realise there’s a lot of ‘ifs’.

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  33. AG (1,833 comments) says:

    I think there must be a credible challenge under the E.Act that “Internet” is a legitimate party.

    And I think I’m the most attractive man in Australasia, but wishing don’t make it so.

    The Internet Party’s method of signing up members was approved by the Electoral Commission, it already has been registered by the Electoral Commission (http://www.elections.org.nz/news-media/registration-internet-party-and-logo), and you can see their constitution here (http://www.elections.org.nz/sites/default/files/bulk-upload/documents/internet_party_constitution_and_rules_13_may_14.pdf).

    None of the other things you mention are relevant to their legal status as a “registered party”.

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  34. burt (7,428 comments) says:

    Warren Murray

    If KD flees or is extradited then his mansion will become one of the many mansions the Mana supporters will be living in. This is their goal I suspect, all (selected race people – list to be clarified but currently Maori & German) will be given state mansions and mega fast internet to help their chances in COD.

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  35. Laksa (16 comments) says:

    Hmm did you know that Mana is defined in English as authority, control, influence, prestige or power. It is also honour.

    So I wonder what the “Koha” was for the alliance to be called Internet-Mana rather than Mana-Internet?

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  36. gump (1,685 comments) says:

    I don’t usually agree with Sue Bradford, but I think she’s exactly right in this case.

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  37. ROJ (125 comments) says:

    DPF, I disagree that Mana is a Maori nationalistic party. Hone might be that, but the whole baggage he has brought along (Minto etc) are mainstream communist. Way to the left of the Greens, even after they shifted from being based on environmental concerns.

    Hone has just gone shopping for a new set of baggage, time will tell where he intends to travel.

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  38. davidp (3,585 comments) says:

    georgebolwing>This is exactly what Internet-Mana are doing.

    No it isn’t. None of the constituent Alliance parties purchased the right to a parliamentary seat off another Alliance party. This is the first time that one political party have paid for a position on another party’s list.

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  39. iMP (2,457 comments) says:

    I located this rare draft footage of the Internet-Mana Party’s TV Opening Broadcast.

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  40. fernglas (198 comments) says:

    Although it’s not quite on topic, I have just noticed that Dotcom gave $250,000 to the internet party, according to some register. How can that be? The Internet party said it would receive funding from Dotcom’s family trust. But if the money came from Dotcom himself, as declared, then it must have gone from the trust into his hands as a distribution, before being paid over, in which case it was probably subject to a restraining order. If that is so, then either a resraining order has been breached or there has been a false declaration made. Which is it?

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  41. Pita (314 comments) says:

    The Internet-Mana Party…and I thought Machiavelli was an Italian.

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  42. tvb (4,556 comments) says:

    I am assuming a registered party that wins an electorate seat has to be SAME registered party that submits a list for any coat-tail on the electorate seat be used on the list. That means the Internet-Mana Party has to be registered as a political party. And Hone has to be a member of that party and win the seat under that party and that SAME party submits a list for MMP.

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  43. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    This just a repeat of the Alliance isn’t it? That had “component” parties including Jim Anderton’s personal vehicle….This Internet-Mana Frankenstein’s monster surely has even less chance of remaining a coherent unit? Can you imagine caucus meetings with Minto and some white supremacist who thinks Adolf was on to something?

    As for Sue Bradford, I join those in saying “Good on her”…She I and couldn’t have been farther apart politically, but I always found her very pleasant as a person. Other than Kevin Hague, who is also a good guy, she was also the only Green with a sense of humour…albeit not about climate change!!

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  44. Viking2 (11,681 comments) says:

    DG, Stalin was a pleasant person and so are most that try to con others.
    Bradford may be nice when it suits but her track record suggests that its only when it suits.
    I met plenty of Union people who were perfectly nice with a beer in their hands but…. you know the rest.

    Plenty out their who would stick a knife in your back if it suits their political ends.
    As You know. so don’t go all soft and lovey dovey on her. It doesn’t fit your image for a start.

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  45. lilman (973 comments) says:

    Hone ,the porch Maori.

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  46. Longknives (4,962 comments) says:

    Where to now for Bradford? Back to the Greens?

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  47. rouppe (983 comments) says:

    Thinking about the name Internet-Mana.

    DotCom has even got Hone to submit to his party being second fiddle in the name.

    But then again if they’d called it Mana-Internet, it would have been shortened to MI and before long it would have been Mission Impossible…

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  48. Brian Smaller (3,966 comments) says:

    German Internet Mana Party. Free leather gear with every internet connection.

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  49. David Garrett (7,701 comments) says:

    Viking: I didn’t say Bradford was a wonderful human being…I said she was a pleasant person to interact with.

    And I think you mean it kindly, but I have never given a rat’s rectum if something doesn’t fit my “image”…I take whatever position I think is righ on every issue…just as I did 30 years ago when I joined those protesting nuclear ship visits…and to this day I think we were right.

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  50. Sir Cullen's Sidekick (900 comments) says:

    Good to see John Minty Minto standing up for principles….yeah right…

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  51. Fentex (1,136 comments) says:

    If you’d written it as fiction decades ago it could only have been satiric comedy, no one would have thought it possible.

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  52. SPC (5,669 comments) says:

    I pick ACT and the Internet Mana (IaM.com) to both get 2 seats. 1.5% each.

    The Maori Party to win 2 and United 1. 1.5% between both.

    Amongst the little parties that leaves National ahead 3 seats to 2, with the Maori Party even handed their 2 seats either way.

    Thus National needs to head off Labour, Greens and NZ First by itself.

    With 3% to other parties (2.5% Conservatives) on current polling trends it is about

    National 47, Labour 30 Greens 10 and NZF 5.5.

    The vulnerability for Labour is NZF falling below 5%.

    Result

    ACT New Zealand 1.50% 2 1.65%
    Green Party 10.00% 12 9.92%
    Labour Party 30.00% 37 30.58%
    Mana 1.50% 2 1.65%
    Māori Party 1.00% 2 1.65%
    National Party 47.00% 58 47.93%
    New Zealand First Party 5.50% 7 5.79%
    United Future 0.50% 1 0.83%

    Totals 97.00% 121 100.00%

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  53. Viking2 (11,681 comments) says:

    Sir Cullen’s Sidekick (663 comments) says:
    May 27th, 2014 at 5:16 pm

    Good to see John Minty Minto standing up for principles….yeah right…
    ———————-
    I waited and waited and waited.

    Minto stands for his principles. You may not agree or even know what they are. But he does.

    I find it amusing that so many who pile vile forget that they also followed the same mans mantra over South Africa whilst a few of us saw the waste and destruction that policy you so blindly followed caused.

    Karma.

    and I don’t like Minto at all.

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  54. adze (2,130 comments) says:

    DPF, I disagree that Mana is a Maori nationalistic party. Hone might be that, but the whole baggage he has brought along (Minto etc) are mainstream communist.

    I think it’s weird how “mainstream” seems to have become a euphemism for “non-Maori”. I blame Don Brash, who used the term frequently while he campaigned on his ill-advised Orewa platform.

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  55. burt (7,428 comments) says:

    adze

    Yes, one rule for all was never going to go down well in NZ.

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  56. Nostalgia-NZ (5,322 comments) says:

    Some predictable comments of outrage here. Looking at it from another point of view it will be interesting if there is soon a blog being run by supporters of the new party. One particular note of interest with the outrage is how Hone has been perceived to have acted, ‘selling out’ some have said. But really, it would be a hard push to say that Hone had not strengthened his position. On the other hand KDC’s hat is in the ring despite a few days ago it being said that he’d suffered a major loss because certain material had not been released to him. Small wonder that some would consider that as a point not to be appealed as we watch a game of chess continue with the favourite to win still not ‘hunkered down’ or settled in their seat at the chest table. Going to continue to be interesting.

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  57. chris (647 comments) says:

    I’m not sure there’s a lot of outrage. I’m certainly not outraged, and I was one of those who called Hone a sell out. I called him a sell out because he’s exactly that: where are his principles about standing up for the poor and down trodden when he takes money from a one percenter, the anathema of everything he stands for? Yes, you could say he’s using KDC for his own ends, and it’s a reciprocal arrangement. But it’s still a sell out. I think there’s a fairly likely chance he won’t win his seat because he’s cuddled up with KDC. I don’t like Sue Bradford for what she stands for, but she has stood by her principles, and I respect her for that.

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  58. deadrightkev (610 comments) says:

    Act and the Conservatives should also form an umbrella alliance.

    If these parties allow the left to use their imagination at the nations expense they are mugs if they don’t cover their position as well.

    Act is two seats tops. Craig could get 3-4% plus. With the solid groundwork I hear he has been doing nationwide for months he could go all the way. National and voters on the right cannot afford to overlook the potential of the Conservative party vote.

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  59. RRM (10,099 comments) says:

    Sue Bradford has quit Mana saying:

    “Sucking up to German millionaires is not my vision of the future”

    Sue has shown she remains a person of principle.

    I notice she said “Millionaires” not “fraudsters”… interesting.

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  60. goldnkiwi (1,616 comments) says:

    Laila HARRE touted as leader.

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  61. deadrightkev (610 comments) says:

    OMG.

    Please tell me it isn’t true.

    The most annoying nauseating voice in NZ politics is back. Laila Harre. Communism is coming to life.

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