General Debate 9 June 2014

June 9th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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149 Responses to “General Debate 9 June 2014”

  1. kowtow (8,485 comments) says:

    The joys of multiculturalism…….

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10882891/We-cant-avoid-the-threat-of-Islamism.html

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  2. Pete George (23,565 comments) says:

    On Dotcom and citizenship - to pass the ‘Good Character’ test he will presumably need to be clear of extradition and chargers in the US.

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  3. Southern Raider (1,830 comments) says:

    Good article in Herald about landlords and what evil bastards they are.

    How can you expect a tenant to treat your property with respect, pay rent on time and not trash the place. I think we need to understand were these people come from and the struggles they have. Also having to pay back $28000 of damage via a $25 WINZ payment is just targeting the poor.

    It’s about time NZ realised that it is a real burden to put dirty nappies actually in the rubbish, clean up after yourselves so you don’t get rat infestations and that you can’t easily access stuff in the kitchen unless you rip the doors off.

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  4. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    Roadlice Report:

    So I’m cycling, passing by a T intersection – I’m on the main road on the *opposite side* of the side road to head *south*. A car is indicating to turn *right* from the side road to also head *south*.

    Question: why on earth does this idiot then ‘give way’ to a cyclist as I pass the side road ? On closer inspection it was a weirdo gormless looking Indian fob male. That’s got to be a driving test error you’d get marked down for.

    I see all kinds of shit – people that cross the centreline so their whole vehicle is in the wrong lane to pass by – huh ?? I’m staying far enough left that it’s way way OTT. WTF ??

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  5. Grendel (1,002 comments) says:

    do you have the link Southern Raider? i dont go to the herald site, unless its direct linked (too much nonsense on that site, i try to avoid most of it).

    it always shocks new investors i work with when they discover that tenants will not treat the house like they would. they cannot beleive how badly someone would treat someone elses property. its why i always advocate landlords insurance for malicious damage and lost rent, its just safer.

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  6. kowtow (8,485 comments) says:

    The joys of international travel……….

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2014/06/heavy-fighting-reported-at-karachi-airport-201468185852200231.html

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  7. Southern Raider (1,830 comments) says:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11270155

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  8. Bovver (173 comments) says:

    I blame John Key SR, here’s hoping Labour nationalise rental properties, think of the children.

    Here is the link Grendel http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11270155

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  9. Tarquin North (298 comments) says:

    I’ve owned a few rentals. Never again, I’m tired of being a banker and social worker. To be fair I would have had a better run if I put more effort in but I have my business to run. My biggest mistake was to think tenants would treat my property as I would.

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  10. Paulus (2,627 comments) says:

    Had occasion to listen to Mourning Report this morning starring Susi somebody and Whiner Guyon.
    What a pathetic pair of people : they are totalling lacking manners or intelligence.
    STOP INTERUPTING WHEN SOMBODY IS TRYING TO ANSWER THE QUESTION YOU ASKED.
    Yes, both of you are just as bad.
    When you first came on RNZ Morning report I thought here is new professional and intelligent blood, so we were promoted to believe.
    Get real or get off – being rude to people you do not like, does you no favours.
    You are not the programme.

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  11. flipper (4,067 comments) says:

    Someone yesterday wrote about Pundit’s “poll of polls” which seems to show a widening of the gap between National and the left.

    I sent that interesting bit of data to several folk, and one cautioned that the gap is closer today than it was three years ago, and that a lot could happen between now and September 20.

    That is the mantra repeated by so called wise owls.
    They are correct to the extent that a lot could and will happen – some positive, some negative.
    Some might say that another GFC is possible…that there could be “revelations”…. that John Key will lose his electorate seat leaving National bereft of a leader with standing. There could be disastrous gaffs by JK, WE and SJ during the campaign proper.
    On the other hand TV3’s Campbell may produce a programme advocating for National, and the teacher unions might advise their membership to give up on Hekia and “Vote National”. (Note the pigs flying past your windows). 

    So, while caution and commitment to the cause are essential, the need for a PMA is equally important.
    Without a PMA motivation is difficult. Exhortations based on a fear of losing are rarely successful.

    But the reality,is that in the end , the idiosyncrasies of MMP notwithstanding, it will be a case of “it’s the economy stupid ….“
    They may often appear otherwise, but the body politic is not totally stupid. 

    The point about the “Silver model” poll of polls is that it evens out fluctuations in methodology, timing etc. So worth watching.
    The “Silver model” now published by Pundit seems somewhat similar to the rolling average of polls maintained by DPF.

    [WHAT ABOUT A TECHNICAL ANALYSIS DAVID????]

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  12. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    http://kickerdaily.com/researcher-discovers-septic-tank-of-bones-found-in-1975-are-of-796-babies/

    A demonstration of what happens when there are no alternatives – children become ‘disposable’, and no one seems to care enough to even provide them with a decent burial. For some it is better not to ‘exist’ than to suffer.

    “The recently discovered death records for St Mary’s show the 796 children died from malnutrition and infectious diseases, such as measles and tuberculosis.

    Records showed that as far back as 1944, a government inspection report of the Tuam home described some of the children as “fragile, pot-bellied and emaciated.”

    According to Corless’ study since the impregnated unmarried women were ostracized, their children were also denied of baptism by Conservative Catholic teaching so that the children were refused burial in consecrated lands.at the time denied children of unmarried parents baptism and therefore burial in consecrated lands.”

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  13. Keeping Stock (10,341 comments) says:

    @ Pete George – he may still fall short, given the insider trading convictions in Hong Kong after his residence was approved. That was a factor in influencing Simon Power to overrule the OIO’s decision on the purchase of his house at Coatesville.

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  14. MT_Tinman (3,186 comments) says:

    flipper (3,353 comments) says:
    June 9th, 2014 at 8:36 am

    But the reality,is that in the end , the idiosyncrasies of MMP notwithstanding, it will be a case of “it’s the economy stupid ….“
    They may often appear otherwise, but the body politic is not totally stupid. 

    Every poll I’ve seen recently has 45-50% of people intending to vote left.

    To me that suggests you are incorrect – at least 45% of the “body politic” is very stupid indeed.

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  15. Pete George (23,565 comments) says:

    Thanks KS, I’ve updated the post with that.

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  16. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    @ Judith
    as I said a few days back. There was one of those homes in Chch way up on the Summit Road. At lest that was what we were told it was.

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  17. Pete George (23,565 comments) says:

    “Every poll I’ve seen recently has 45-50% of people intending to vote left.”

    Including or excluding NZ First and the Maori Party?

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  18. flipper (4,067 comments) says:

    MT_Tinman (2,892 comments) says:

    June 9th, 2014 at 8:54 am ….

    ***

    You could be correct. But we will have wait and see, In the meantime how about some PMA?

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  19. Gulag1917 (919 comments) says:

    Chomsky: Obama ‘Determined To Demolish The Foundations Of Our Civil Liberties’
    http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/04/chomsky-obama-determined-to-demolish-the-foundations-of-our-civil-liberties/

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  20. ciaron (1,434 comments) says:

    Judith, do you think that abortion on demand does not make children “disposable”?

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  21. EAD (1,087 comments) says:

    Breaking news over in Las Vegas as gunman kills 4 people and the media is trumpeting the angle that he was shouting out “long live the revolution”

    http://www.news.com.au/world/as-many-as-five-people-are-believed-to-have-been-killed-in-las-vegas-walmart-shooting/story-fndir2ev-1226947841537

    This has got false flag written all over it and will no doubt be used by the socialist in chief as another chance as a gun grab. Note to Obama – revolutions don’t begin by shooting up civilians at a Walmart store.

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  22. cha (4,017 comments) says:

    Colonel bunnie’s fuckwits will be delighted.

    .
    Police say witnesses told them the suspects took the police officers’ gear and, as they were walking out of the restaurant after the shooting, they said, ” tell the police the revolution has begun.”

    http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25723142/breaking-news-2-metro-officers-shot-near-nellis-and-stewart

    http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/fire-rescue/five-reported-dead-north-las-vegas-police-ambush

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  23. Longknives (4,750 comments) says:

    It’s okay guys- Someone called Nicole Matthewson has ‘investigated’ and deduced that Muslim’s are a Peaceful lot…

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10133412/Fighting-killing-not-the-Muslim-way

    Phew- Nothing to worry about then..

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  24. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    Aunti Jan Logie tells it straight on immigration
    http://blog.greens.org.nz/2014/06/03/immigration-the-green-party-perspective/

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  25. EAD (1,087 comments) says:

    The best article on the current state of the Western World I’ve read in a long time:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-07/madness-crowds-and-great-insanity

    Some excerpts:

    “The central banks have created moral hazard on a scale which is simply unbelievable and set a stage for a bonfire of the vanities seldom, if ever, seen in history. In fact, nothing I can see rivals it.”

    “The masses are being plundered on a scale which is inconceivable and unmatched in history; it is the source of the middle classes dying in the developed world. The developed world has become a well-disguised plantation of serfs and slaves. They are given nothing to store and save their labor in as the currency they hold are printed endlessly and have no reserves to back them and are redeemable in NOTHING, contrary to every sound currency in history.”

    “As long as big government progressives, elites, the main stream media, and banksters can manipulate and control the reality for the vast majority of citizens they tell themselves they are doing a public good……..throughout the developed world, progressive governments have created huge welfare states that have crippled the futures of the people under whom they were meant to place a safety net. Now, it is a permanent way of life for them and the rolls are exploding daily”

    “These programs have now created a class of people who have no ability to rise and prosper in life: they have no skills, no ability to produce more than they consume, and do not know the source of their inability to do so. They are told their lack of success is someone else’s fault. They are crippled intentionally to be victims of the elites who wish to prey on them and their ignorance. They have been provided a POTEMKIN FAKE education by public schools who FAIL to provide them the educations necessary to rise through adversity and in life.””

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  26. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    I have had a bit to do with Moslems. Just like going to the toilet and having morning tea, they need to pray at certain times and visit the mosque. I kind of thought that they were simply being devout just like some members of my wider family are devout presbytarians. On the other hand I do think that the Islamic software contains a virus (to use a metaphor) in so far as there is a meme which interacts with a certain DNA type. I wonder if these converts are bugs looking for wind shields?

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  27. EAD (1,087 comments) says:

    @ longknives & Kowtow

    How much longer do we have to put up with this crap.

    Every single day, another story from somewhere in the Western World appears about the disastrous effect on peaceful civilisations due to the immigration of Muslims.

    FMG,,,, Honour killing,,,, Halal slaughter,,,,, Sharia patrols,,,,,No go areas,,,,, Vote rigging,,,,, Trojan horse,,,,,,Under age grooming,,,,, Bombings

    We must be loosing our minds to allow any more in despite propaganda outlets telling us that “fighting is not the Islam way”. Perhaps Nicole Mathewson isn’t familiar with the Islamic practice of “Taqiya” which literally means “lying about your intentions”.

    The process doesn’t happen overnight but the Islamification of our country gathers pace with each passing day (We are duly told that a “Kiwi” was killed in Syria while recently another “Kiwi” was killed in a drone strike in Yemen). It is almost becoming surreal to watch this unfold – is the government blind to what is happening across the world or does the government in fact have no desire to stop the slow drip, drip of islamiifcation- is this in in fact deliberate?

    If we do not stand up NOW and say ENOUGH, our country will be finished

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  28. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    Are we too tolerant of religion? It has long been considerd that religious tolerance was a good thing; and conflict occured mainly because both sides can’t be right and so one’s beliefs cancelled the others. What if your creed implys domination by fair means or foul? The PC postion is that it doesn’t mean that; that is out of context etc. What if all religions in a secular state had to have an officail point of view (as in) please explain? Given we have laws about hate speech we could fine those preaching otherwise? Why shoul nice state give them the benefit of the doubt?

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  29. Ryan Sproull (7,153 comments) says:

    I have had a bit to do with Moslems. Just like going to the toilet and having morning tea, they need to pray at certain times and visit the mosque. I kind of thought that they were simply being devout just like some members of my wider family are devout presbytarians. On the other hand I do think that the Islamic software contains a virus (to use a metaphor) in so far as there is a meme which interacts with a certain DNA type. I wonder if these converts are bugs looking for wind shields?

    That’s an interesting way of putting it, HJ.

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  30. cricko (330 comments) says:

    I see in the article Longknives linked to the muslim population of New Zealand grew by 29.6% from
    2006 to 2015. From 36,072 to 46,149 (now over 1% of the population, and climbing real fast))

    Somebody with a grip of maths could probably work out when they will reach the majical 3% when
    they start to become a real problem.

    At that rate it wont be too long untill they are the majority.

    It’s some of the sons and grandsons of these immigrants that will be a serious problem.
    We have already had to whack a couple of them in Yemen, it can only get worse.

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  31. kowtow (8,485 comments) says:

    judith

    Who says they were denied a “decent burial”,we simply don’t know. Corless herself seems shocked at the screaming sensationalist headlines.”The nature of their burial has been widely misrepresented”.You continue to “misrepresent”.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/tuam-mother-and-baby-home-the-trouble-with-the-septic-tank-story-1.1823393

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  32. MT_Tinman (3,186 comments) says:

    To far more important stuff; NZ 240/2 after day 1.

    And the really shocking news of the day;

    West Indies bowled 92 overs in the day.

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  33. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    You reckon that dumping bodies in a septic tank was a ‘decent burial’?

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  34. publicwatchdog (2,596 comments) says:

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com/bribery/police-complaint/

    The complaint that Lisa Prager and myself filed with Auckland Central Police on 27 April 2012, alleging electoral fraud against John Banks in relation to the undeclared $15,000 Auckland Mayoral donation by Sky City:

    “On Tuesday 10 April 2012, the complainants, both former Auckland Mayoral candidates, Lisa Prager 2007) and Penny Bright (2010) went to the offices of Independent Electoral Services Ltd, and perused the electoral returns of 2010 Auckland Mayoral candidates John Banks and Len Brown. ….”

    Seek truth from FACTS?

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

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  35. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    cricko, there is no “number” at which Moslems then become a problem when migrants to and descendants of migrants in another culture. The impact of migration on a host nation is not based on a number. The impact will be dependent on the nature of the migrants and the nature of the host culture. Not all Moslems are the same and not all host cultures are the same.

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  36. kowtow (8,485 comments) says:

    Corless herself “I never used the word dumped”

    She has been “misrepresented”.

    Read the link.

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  37. stephieboy (3,088 comments) says:

    I see kim.com foresees his inevitable doom with a desperate attempt to pay $ 5 million to a whsitelblower to uncover misdeeds and corruption for those arraigned against him in respect of the thievery of others efforts and works,

    http://torrentfreak.com/how-kim-dotcoms-5m-whistleblower-bounty-will-work-140607/

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  38. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    An Irish Times account of the contract debate from September 12, 1928, states that at the time there were “118 children, of which 96 were illegitimate, and 30 unmarried mothers in the home.” In the same article, a letter from the Board of Health recommends that unmarried mothers who are “second offenders” should be “committed to a Magdalen asylum of similar institution for a term of years.”

    http://www.irishcentral.com/news/The-Home-babies-in-the-news-A-timeline-of-neglect-in-plain-sight.html?page=2

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  39. stephieboy (3,088 comments) says:

    EAD (415 comments) says:
    June 9th, 2014 at 9:05 am,

    What utter garbage. The Las Vegas mass shooting equates with some kind of ” socialist “revolt ” with gun grab and False flag written over it.
    Kindly next time present a few facts and evidence to back up this absurd claim.

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  40. Griff (7,719 comments) says:

    Face book page for the researcher on the location of the mass grave
    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1382568855335119&id=1381096678815670
    The septic tank was apparently discovered in 1975 and holds an unknown number of remains.
    The surrounding area is presumed to contain the rest of the dead in unmarked mass graves
    Of further note is the number 796 bandied around is only the children known records exist for it will not include the mothers, still born and any not officially recorded.

    The Roman Catholics church in its compassion treated mothers and children solely as a way to make money .
    This is also the case in Australia with the stolen so called orphans the Christ stain brothers treated as slaves and sex objects.

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  41. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    SPC
    The impact of migration on a host nation is not based on a number.
    …………………

    Population growth has considerable implications for required investment – or, in the parlance
    of this paper, “desired investment” at the world interest rate. Crudely, every new person
    living in New Zealand requires on average an addition to the net capital stock (houses,
    roads, hospitals, shops, offices, factories equal to 3-4 years of income 58 ), just to maintain
    pre-existing capital/output ratios.
    If the rate of population growth increases by 1 per cent per
    annum, this means that the required (or “desired”) gross investment to GDP ratio, all else
    equal, will be 3-4 percentage points of GDP higher if the pre-existing capital to output ratio is
    to be maintained. That puts additional pressure on scarce real resources – scarce
    particularly in an economy with only a modest national savings rate – and tends to hold
    domestic interest rates higher than otherwise 59 . The issue isn’t money – that can be
    borrowed abroad – it is the availability of, in particular, the domestic labour required to
    actually put the investment in place.
    Most of the capital stock is buildings (residential
    dwellings alone make up around 40 per cent of the capital stock) and construction is a
    relatively low productivity labour intensive sector.

    The long-term level “misalignment” of the exchange rate:
    Some perspectives on causes and consequences
    Paper prepared for the Reserve Bank/Treasury exchange rate forum
    Wellington
    26 March 2013
    Final version: 19 April 2013
    Michael Reddell1

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  42. Griff (7,719 comments) says:

    Thanks for the down vote pious catholic shows how morally corrupt you and your church are when it comes the the historical abuse your church sanctioned.
    Give your victims and their descendents the proceeds your church made from the pain and suffering they systemically inflicted. The roman catholic church should be bankrupted then dissolved for its abuse and its ongoing coverups and apologist maneuvering. The church is built on the misery of the vulnerable exploited for money then discarded like worthless rubbish.
    You are going to wear this shit every time one of you stick your sanctimonious heads above the parapet when it comes to any discussion of morels. The church and its adherents demonstrably have none.

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  43. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    hj, yes numbers of migrants/population growth is a matter of economic infrastructure – but this is not the same as cultural impact. Cultural impact can occur at any number level.

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  44. kowtow (8,485 comments) says:

    “In 1915 Baltimore,the death rate among children who had lost their mothers before their second month of life was 526 out of 1000″.

    http://www.faqs.org/childhood/Me-Pa/Orphans.html

    Would the bigotocracy please comment.

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  45. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    Hmmmmm!

    The first thing in my inbox this morning here in Tuscany was a note from a friend about the growing scandal in Quingdao. For a long time many of us have known that there has been “double counting” in the commodities trade sector in China, where local “entrepreneurs” create multiple warehouse receipts on which to borrow money cheaply, and then invest in what are essentially subprime securities that pay higher rates. Everyone “knows” that the government is not going to let anyone lose money on investments, so what could possibly go wrong? It turns out that Chinese warehouse officials are now emigrating in significant numbers to parts unknown around the world, armed with only their passports and whatever money they made through producing such bogus receipts. My sources suggest that the size of the problem is approaching $1.3 billion (far greater than the number being bandied about in public reports). Since one of the guiding principles operative in any scandal is that there is never just one cockroach, I expect the ultimate losses to be far larger. And it appears that the People’s Bank of China is finally going to let people lose money on these fraudulent schemes. Good for them. But to suggest there is no risk in cleaning up corruption and fraud misses the point of our own subprime crisis. In a world where global economic trade and international banks are so intricately linked, trying to determine the actual risk to the system is difficult. And as I will note in my “final thoughts” section, corruption is a very real issue.

    John Maudlin’s letter.
    http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1402260610.php

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  46. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    And how were those Baltimore orphans buried, kowtow?

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  47. Manolo (13,775 comments) says:

    These petty tyrants, disguised as doctors, know what is best for us and want to tax us accordingly.
    Fuck off wowsers! http://health.msn.co.nz/healthnews/8857126/doctors-back-soft-drink-tax

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  48. Fletch (6,390 comments) says:

    Griff, if it weren’t for the Church, there would have been no one to care for orphans or the sick at all. The Church started the first orphanages, hospitals, schools etc.

    By the fourth century, the Church began to sponsor the establishment of hospitals on a large scale, such that nearly every major city ultimately had one. These hospitals originally provided hospitality to strangers but eventually cared for the sick, widows, orphans, and the poor in general.’ As Guenter Risse puts it, Christians set aside “the reciprocal hospitality that had prevailed in ancient Greece and the family-oriented obligations of the Romans” in order to cater to “particular social groups marginalized by poverty, sickness, and age.”” Likewise, medical historian Fielding Garrison observes that before the birth of Christ “the spirit toward sickness and misfortune was not one of compassion, and the credit of ministering to human suffering on an extended scale belongs to Christianity. “20

    You accuse the church out of hatred, not out of any knowledge or facts.

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  49. SGA (1,037 comments) says:

    kowtow at 11:36 am

    “In 1915 Baltimore,the death rate among children who had lost their mothers before their second month of life was 526 out of 1000″.

    Yep, the good ol’ days weren’t necessarily so.

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  50. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Sure, the church started the first hospitals? LOL. Did they start the first schools and shops too? What about swimming pools?

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  51. Fletch (6,390 comments) says:

    Sure, the church started the first hospitals? LOL

    Actually, they did.

    Did they start the first schools

    Yes, they did. The first universities.
    The Catholic Church invented charity as we know it in the West.

    http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=jYvmAgAAQBAJ&lpg=PA171&pg=PA171#v=onepage&q&f=false

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  52. cricko (330 comments) says:

    Hi SPC

    There is a number when muslim immigrants start to become a problem in western host nations.

    This is particular to muslims and and has been a consistant figure in all host countries.

    The figure is 3% of the population.

    When it gets higher than that, as it inevitably does, then you really start to see big problems emerge.

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  53. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Could those who believe that there is a certain number of Moslem migrants to a country when they become a threat to the host nation – clarify whether it is 2% or 3%, a few days ago it was 2% today it is 3%. I presume the reason why no one can get their story about the number straight is because there is no evidence for the supposition.

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  54. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    SPC
    cricko, there is no “number” at which Moslems then become a problem when migrants to and descendants of migrants in another culture. The impact of migration on a host nation is not based on a number. The impact will be dependent on the nature of the migrants and the nature of the host culture. Not all Moslems are the same and not all host cultures are the same.
    …….
    discussed in Kowtow’s link (top).

    It is perfectly reasonable that immigrants, arriving in a strange land whose values and even language they do not fully understand, should prefer to be with people who are similar to them and who share their own language and values. But the effect of that preference is to create “diaspora” communities that do not integrate or adapt to the values of the new society.

    Sir Paul Collier, a professor of development economics at Oxford University, has produced a model that shows that it inevitably becomes a self-reinforcing process: each diaspora community gets ever more entrenched in reproducing the values of the society from which the migrants to it come, which in turn attracts more migrants from that society to it, which then ensures that it is less integrated with the host society – and more attractive to the immigrants from the traditional society in Pakistan, India or wherever.

    Professor Collier thinks that unless the state takes very definite steps to stop this process happening, it will continue more or less indefinitely, with the result that migrant communities become ever more alienated and remote from the society to which they are supposed to adapt.

    That leads directly to the nightmare scenario: a Britain made up of mutually antagonistic “monocultures” that do not trust each other, do not work together and do not share the values of secular democracy, freedom of conscience and the equality of both sexes before the law.

    State policy in Britain over the last two decades has fostered the formation of unintegrated diaspora communities: multiculturalism, which was for many years the dominant approach, encouraged communities to hold on to their own values – with the inevitable result that they have become more entrenched.

    White racism is not the biggest obstacle to integration: the highest levels of segregation anywhere in Britain are those recorded between Indians and Pakistanis in towns in the north of England. The segregation between

    African-Caribbeans and Asians is markedly higher than the degree of segregation between whites and African-Caribbeans. And it seems to be getting worse, not better. Immigrant communities are getting more isolated, less integrated and more locked into their own traditional values.

    and don’t tell me it isn’t happening here.

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  55. SGA (1,037 comments) says:

    Fletch at 11:51 am

    Sure, the church started the first hospitals? LOL
    Actually, they did.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_hospitals
    Institutions created specifically to care for the ill also appeared early in India. Fa Xian, a Chinese Buddhist monk who travelled across India ca. 400 CE, recorded in his travelogue that
    “The heads of the Vaisya [merchant] families in them [all the kingdoms of north India] establish in the cities houses for dispensing charity and medicine. All the poor and destitute in the country, orphans, widowers, and childless men, maimed people and cripples, and all who are diseased, go to those houses, and are provided with every kind of help, and doctors examine their diseases. They get the food and medicines which their cases require, and are made to feel at ease; and when they are better, they go away of themselves.”
    The earliest surviving encyclopaedia of medicine in Sanskrit is the Carakasamhita (Compendium of Caraka). This text, which describes the building of a hospital is dated by Dominik Wujastyk of the University College London from the period between 100 BCE and CE150. The description by Fa Xian is one of the earliest accounts of a civic hospital system anywhere in the world and, coupled with Caraka’s description of how a clinic should be equipped, suggests that India may have been the first part of the world to have evolved an organized cosmopolitan system of institutionally-based medical provision.

    Actually the whole article was an interesting read.

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  56. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    Fletch (5,849 comments) says:
    June 9th, 2014 at 11:45 am

    Griff, if it weren’t for the Church, there would have been no one to care for orphans or the sick at all. The Church started the first orphanages, hospitals, schools etc.
    ..
    Except that the church created the ethos that made them outcasts.

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  57. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    hj, migrant groups choosing to remain separate is not the same as cultural impact on the host nation from immigration.

    The USA 19th C and early 20th C had various immigrant groups in their own neighbourhoods for a generation or more, then they later assimilated. These groups chose not to remain separate.

    The Caribbean migrants integrated into the UK, disproving that race would pose a problem.

    The issue, yet to be resolved, is whether Hispanics (via retaining Spanish) in the USA or Moslems in the UK/Europe/here will prove different.

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  58. Griff (7,719 comments) says:

    Kowtow your number means squat when it is applied to children from 0 to eight kept in a maternity facility/orphanage that is supposed to be staffed by compassionate child care experts and was commissioned after 1929.
    For England and Wales as a whole infant mortality was 105 per 1000 in 1910, 60 per 1000 in 1930 and 56 per 1000 in 1940.
    http://www.blacksacademy.net/content/3162.html
    This pit of catholic compassion had a death rate about 110/1000 from 1930 to 1965!
    Malnutrition was the cause of death for a significant number of children the church was paid well to support and care for

    Fletch
    This predates the roman catholic church by a few hundred years
    Your church created the dark ages by suppression of knowledge only lifted by the enlightenment of those who rejected the churches monopoly on knowledge.

    I swear by Apollo the physician, and Asclepius, and Hygieia and Panacea and all the gods and goddesses as my witnesses, that, according to my ability and judgement, I will keep this Oath and this contract:

    To hold him who taught me this art equally dear to me as my parents, to be a partner in life with him, and to fulfill his needs when required; to look upon his offspring as equals to my own siblings, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or contract; and that by the set rules, lectures, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to students bound by this contract and having sworn this Oath to the law of medicine, but to no others.

    I will use those dietary regimens which will benefit my patients according to my greatest ability and judgement, and I will do no harm or injustice to them.

    I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.

    In purity and according to divine law will I carry out my life and my art.

    I will not use the knife, even upon those suffering from stones, but I will leave this to those who are trained in this craft.

    Into whatever homes I go, I will enter them for the benefit of the sick, avoiding any voluntary act of impropriety or corruption, including the seduction of women or men, whether they are free men or slaves.

    Whatever I see or hear in the lives of my patients, whether in connection with my professional practice or not, which ought not to be spoken of outside, I will keep secret, as considering all such things to be private.

    So long as I maintain this Oath faithfully and without corruption, may it be granted to me to partake of life fully and the practice of my art, gaining the respect of all men for all time. However, should I transgress this Oath and violate it, may the opposite be my fate.

    Roman Catholic apologists telling lies in the name of Jesus/god since circa 250 CE

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  59. cricko (330 comments) says:

    Thanks for that hj and kowtow.

    Too bad SPC didn’t read it.

    Oh well, looks like SPC is keen for a good old game of, “Yes! But.” judging by @12.07

    Bet SPC can play”Yes, But” all day and all night untill the hind leg comes off the donkey.

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  60. Fletch (6,390 comments) says:

    Griff, actually, it was the Church who kept knowledge going during the so-called ‘dark ages’.

    During the period of European history often called the Dark Ages which followed the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, Church scholars and missionaries played a vital role in preserving knowledge of Classical Learning. While the Roman Empire and Christian religion survived in an increasingly Hellenised form in the Byzantine Empire centred at Constantinople in the East, Western civilisation suffered a collapse of literacy and organisation following the fall of Rome in 476AD. Monks sought refuge at the far fringes of the known world: like Cornwall, Ireland, or the Hebrides. Disciplined Christian scholarship carried on in isolated outposts like Skellig Michael in Ireland, where literate monks became some of the last preservers in Western Europe of the poetic and philosophical works of Western antiquity.[60] By around 800AD they were producing illuminated manuscripts such as the Book of Kells, by which old learning was re-communicated to Western Europe. The Hiberno-Scottish mission led by Irish and Scottish monks like St Columba spread Christianity back into Western Europe during the Middle Ages, establishing monasteries through Anglo-Saxon England and the Frankish Empire during the Middle Ages.

    Thomas Cahill, in his 1995 book How the Irish Saved Civilization, credited Irish Monks with having “saved” Western Civilization:[61]

    “ [A]s the Roman Empire fell, as all through Europe matted, unwashed barbarians descended on the Roman cities, looting artifacts and burning books, the Irish, who were just learning to read and write, took up th great labor of copying all western literature – everything they could lay their hands on. These scribes then served as conduits through which the Greco-Roman and Judeo-Christian cultures were transmitted to the tribes of Europe, newly settled amid the rubble and ruined vineyards of the civilization they had overwhelmed. Without this Service of the Scribes, everything that happened subsequently would be unthinkable. Without the Mission of the Irish Monks, who single-handedly re-founded European civilization throughout the continent in the bays and valleys of their exile, the world that came after them would have been an entirely different one-a world without books. And our own world would never have come to be. ”

    According to art historian Kenneth Clarke, for some five centuries after the fall of Rome, virtually all men of intellect joined the Church and practically nobody in western Europe outside of monastic settlements had the ability to read or write. While church scholars at different times also destroyed classical texts they felt were contrary to the Christian message, it was they, virtually alone in Western Europe, who preserved texts from the old society.[60]

    As Western Europe became more orderly again, the Church remained a driving force in education, with Cathedral schools beginning in the Early Middle Ages as centers of advanced education, often evolving into the medieval universities which were the springboard of many of Western Europe’s later achievements.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_Western_civilization

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  61. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    cricko, I did read it but the continuance of separate immigrant communities has yet to occur, they are too recent. Where the children born in the UK/Europe/here choose to live has yet to be determined.

    Where do the numbers 2 and 3% come from?

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  62. kowtow (8,485 comments) says:

    griff

    Your infant mortality figures for Engalnd and Wales mean squat,unless compared for similar institutions .I can’t find any but would be confident that death rates in orphanges across the west would be very high.Especially during the depression and war years.

    I welcome someone posting figures ,in order to throw some honest light and context on this bigot ridden issue.

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  63. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    @ SPC
    he USA 19th C and early 20th C had various immigrant groups in their own neighbourhoods for a generation or more, then they later assimilated. These groups chose not to remain separate.
    ———-
    Robert Putnam said it took the US “half a century” before community cohesion developed.

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  64. edhunter (547 comments) says:

    Islamisation begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious rights. When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious rights, some of the other components tend to creep in as well. Here’s how it works.
    As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part being regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:
    -United States – Muslim 0.6%
    -Australia – Muslim 1.5%
    -Canada – Muslim 1.9%
    At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytise from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major
    recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:
    Germany – Muslim 3.7%
    United Kingdom – Muslim 2.7%
    From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example,
    they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation
    jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves – along with
    threats for failure to comply.
    This is occurring in:
    France – Muslim 8%
    Philippines – Muslim 5%
    Sweden – Muslim 5%
    At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos)
    under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.
    When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about
    their conditions. In Paris we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in
    uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam, with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such
    tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in: –
    Guyana – Muslim 10%
    India – Muslim 13.4%
    Israel – Muslim 16%

    After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the
    burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in Ethiopia – Muslim 32.8%
    At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in: –
    Bosnia – Muslim 40% -Chad – Muslim 53.1%

    From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including nonconforming
    Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax
    placed on infidels, such as in:
    Albania – Muslim 70%
    Malaysia – Muslim 60.4%
    After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide,
    as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some
    ways is on-going in:
    Egypt – Muslim 90%
    Gaza – Muslim 98.7%
    Indonesia – Muslim 86.1%
    Iran – Muslim 98%
    Iraq – Muslim 97%
    100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ the Islamic House of Peace. Here there’s supposed
    to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is
    the only word, such as in:
    Afghanistan – Muslim 100%
    Saudi Arabia – Muslim 100%
    As I said, the figures are now not fully accurate, but the general sense of how this process
    works is nicely contained in this piece of information.

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  65. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    SPC (5,136 comments) says:
    June 9th, 2014 at 11:52 am
    Could those who believe that there is a certain number of Moslem migrants to a country when they become a threat to the host nation – clarify whether it is 2% or 3%

    I don’t believe there’s some threshold like that, I think the threat is when the host nation relaxes their laws to accommodate the ‘culture’ of the immigrants. As is often said – why would someone leave their shit-hole country to come to our paradise, and then try and turn our paradise into a shit-hole? I think much of the trouble experienced in other countries is because they were already shit-holes.

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  66. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    The disgusting “Manawatu Standard” has really excelled in political bias today, pushing effeminate Lees-Galloway with an outburst of Labour propaganda. Even his usual photo in the same place on their front page. I need another new car, so will be looking to see who does not advertise in the rag or any of its subsidiaries, buying from someone who does not support them. Our company has ceased purchasing Mazdas due to Campbell, and that really pissed off a local dealer, who should not have to suffer sales because of this little creep.

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  67. stephieboy (3,088 comments) says:

    RightNow, is there any evidence that the 40,000 or so Mulsims right now in this country are turning it into a “shit hole. ? “

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  68. Griff (7,719 comments) says:

    fletch

    this from your cut and paste explains the dark ages and the misery of the church decreed ignorance for more than a thousand years in the west….

    While church scholars at different times also destroyed classical texts they felt were contrary to the Christian message,

    This included the teachings of Christ himself when it did not agree with the churches dogma.

    while the Arabs kept the Greek and roman knowledge and expanded on them in university’s of leaning Your church destroyed the writings of the ancients and insisted only superstitious nonsense stayed in its place. This continued until enough enlighten men rejected the constraints of christian dogma for the reality of the scientific method. That many of these men were christian is not a good point in favor of Christianity it was the only tolerated believe system for century’s in the west so Christianity was only to be expected . After all Darwin himself was training to be a parson at Christ collage.

    so far you claim your church created university when they existed before and during the time your church suppress the pursuit of knowledge You claim hospitals that also existed before the church and else where during the dark years of christian ascendency in the west. You claim care of the sick and orphaned when it was practiced world wide before Christ and is a near universal human trait

    :lol: apologist

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  69. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    igm
    You won’t buy Mazdas because of John Campbell? Ha ha, you really are crazy.

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  70. Komata (1,191 comments) says:

    Stephieboy

    Not knowing where you live, but:

    Although you addressed this to RightNow. I would suggest that if you are an Auckland resident, a walk around the Sandringham, St. Lukes, Mt. Roskill area’s might be of interest (there are other’s but these come immediately to mind). They are largely Muslim-inhabited, so you will no doubt find the experience an interesting one.

    if you do decide to ‘explore’ we would be interested in a report…

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  71. Manolo (13,775 comments) says:

    If only Key had the guts to dismiss the incompetent Nick Smith and say something like this:
    Prime Minister Tony Abbott says any future global agreement on climate change won’t include carbon pricing.
    ‘Stephen Harper and I are like-minded on this,’ Mr Abbott told reporters in Ottawa on Sunday.

    ‘The argument is not about climate change – the argument is about the best means to respond to climate change and I believe that carbon taxes and emissions trading schemes are the wrong way to go.

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  72. stephieboy (3,088 comments) says:

    Komata , I live in Mt Eden right next door to Sandringham Rd and the other” offending”area Stoddard Rd Mt Roskill and visit both reasonably regularly.
    Yes ,it is interesting and includes a diverse ethnic mix of Indians, Pakistanis , Somalis, Iranians, Iraqi refugees Islanders and Palangis of course.There is a fascinating presence of food and general merchandise bazaars, Sari shops,Bollywood vid stores etc, etc.
    Your point.?

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  73. Albert_Ross (293 comments) says:

    OK, Manolo. No carbon taxes, no emissions trading schemes. What do you think is the best means to respond to climate change?

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  74. stephieboy (3,088 comments) says:

    Albert_Ross, like most rightwing nuts I believe Manolo believes there is no such thing. Rather like Flat Earth stuff.

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  75. Manolo (13,775 comments) says:

    Like most left-wing progressives, stephieboy believes taxation is the solution to all problems.

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  76. Griff (7,719 comments) says:

    It would be good manolo if you Abbott and those others who disagree with the proposed solutions had a viable alternative to emission trading and/or carbon pricing.

    Sticking your head into sand and farting out “its not happening” will not cut it in the reality we are facing. The physics of the green house effect doesn’t care what we think.

    We do need a answer for our ever increasing green house gas emissions or we are going to create to much change for civilization to economically cope with.

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  77. stephieboy (3,088 comments) says:

    Manolo, possibly but it surprises me that you apparently believe in a flat earth .!

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  78. Manolo (13,775 comments) says:

    A sight to behold: the unholy alliance of an addled pot smoker and a gullible feminist both united in their firm belief in AGW, and determined to protect Gaia from progress and the evil human race.

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  79. Griff (7,719 comments) says:

    That’s it piss soaked single sentence spurting imbecile ? :lol:
    Its so sad when the brain cells have degraded to such an extent.
    Do us all a favor give up the drink for a few days then film your dt’s and post a link
    It will not change anything but will give us all a good laugh watching you with the crawling hebiejebies

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  80. kowtow (8,485 comments) says:

    Ethos that made them outcasts?

    I suspect the concept of illegitimacy predates the Roman Catholic Church and may have been more about protecting property rights than morality.

    But then these social,historical , religious concepts are extremely complex and don’t necessarily lend themselves to simple answers…..

    ……such as we are so often treated to here “duh, it’s all the fault of the fucken Roman Catholics,crusades,inquisitions ,blah blah biggotted blah.”

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  81. Nukuleka (327 comments) says:

    I feel extraordinarily sad for all the bitter anti Catholics who feel compelled to spew their viciousness on this blog. I guess that they must have some pretty deep wounds that need some serious healing. Unfortunately they share the same sort of distorted view of the world as the ‘journalists’ who so wilfully distort the facts of stories such as the ‘babies dumped in a septic tank’. Despite it being pointed out that the woman who did the research into this situation is appalled by the way the facts have been misrepresented by the media we still have the anti Catholic bloggers continuing to repeat lies.

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  82. Redbaiter (8,886 comments) says:

    “I feel extraordinarily sad for all the bitter anti Catholics who feel compelled to spew their viciousness on this blog.”

    Its therapy for them.

    They’re mostly hillbillies who live way out in the sticks, clapped out used car salesmen, or losers with no money, and who for any of those reasons, can’t get the psychiatric care they need. All obsessives.

    So they vent on here and it makes them feel better.

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  83. stephieboy (3,088 comments) says:

    Redbaiter, how many hits a day do you get on your blog.? 1,23, 4….?

    Just curious.!

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  84. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Yes Nukuleka, apparently only some of the children’s bodies ended up in the septic tank. The rest were buried in the garden.

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  85. kowtow (8,485 comments) says:

    milky still “misrepresenting” .

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  86. Griff (7,719 comments) says:

    It ain’t a lie there are body’s dumped into a disused septic tank.
    Splitting hairs over whether all the body’s of the 796 kids are in the tank or some are in unmarked mass graves besides the tank is pathetic misdirection.
    The fact remains 796 kids remains were dumped into unmarked and unrecorded illegal plots that the church ignored until found by accident.
    We add this to the churches behavior around the christian brothers “orphanage” in Australia , the scandal of baby selling in Spain and other atrocity’s perpetrated against the vulnerable in the name of Christ by the papists.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2049647/BBC-documentary-exposes-50-year-scandal-baby-trafficking-Catholic-church-Spain.html
    300,000 babies stolen from their parents – and sold for adoption: Haunting BBC documentary exposes 50-year scandal of baby trafficking by the Catholic church in Spain

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  87. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    Belief systems run deep into ones culture. Reading your reaction Red gives some insight into how deeply a moslem also feels.

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  88. mike tan (485 comments) says:

    It should always be noted that the leftist aspiration to raise taxes on tobacco products discriminate against (and disproportionately affect) the lower income groups which they purport to represent. The reasoning for this is that these groups have lower income available to them and therefore any money they spend is a greater proportion of the total amount of money they have (in comparison to someone from the middle or upper class). The raising taxes strategy works on the supposition that chemical and psychological addiction are able to be overridden by financial responsibility (a very dubious supposition).

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  89. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    And yet rising excise taxes on tobacco are strongly associated with declining smoking rates.

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  90. mike tan (485 comments) says:

    I would be interested in seeing your citation for that (does it control for other factors, like increased education about the risks involved? changes in societal attitudes?). Regardless, my comment about discriminating against the lower income groups stands.

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  91. Griff (7,719 comments) says:

    Its how many actually comment that counts.
    A few weeks ago I ventured into the deep dark corner of irrelevance that is truly blue nz I was stunned and surprised at the number of comments .
    until I read them
    The entire content was by only four people!
    Mostly consisting of sycophantically congratulating El Guvea on his political standpoints. The most prolific being red blathers resultant congratulation in turn of each ones political nous.
    A massive self contained circle jerk if ever there was one…. :lol:
    Feel free to venture forth and give an update Stehie I am afraid that was far to much public self masturbation for my sensibilities to cope with in one year.

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  92. All_on_Red (1,583 comments) says:

    Albert Ross
    Mitigation is the answer, not punishment.I see Toyota are about to start manufacturing hydrogen cars.
    http://www.autoblog.com/2014/06/08/toyota-hydrogen-fchv-production/
    It ain’t pretty and it’s expensive but it’s a start.
    It is possible we will see Hydrogen used to power mini suburban electric power plants. Agree totally we need to reduce pollution like soot.

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  93. wikiriwhis business (4,006 comments) says:

    Reset the Net: You can fight the NSA

    It’s been a year since the first documents leaked by Edward Snowden began showing up in the Guardian and the Washington Post.

    The surveillance apparatus they described was so enormous that it took months for the country and the world to understand and process the implications of what was going on.

    In the meantime, the NSA and other government surveillance programs around the world have collected another year’s worth of data.

    But opponents of these agencies are fighting back.

    Last week tech companies, democracy advocates, and open-internet activists joined forces for a Reset the Net campaign that emphasises both personal privacy and open access to information on the web

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/60095404/reset-the-net-you-can-fight-the-nsa.html

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  94. Griff (7,719 comments) says:

    Aill in red
    to make hydrogen you first need to generate electricity I have a plant generating hydrogen as a by product of a rust removal process running right now. Hydrogen generation is only at best around 50% efficient at converting sparks to gas.

    you then need to transport it
    and store it

    http://h2bestpractices.org/h2properties/

    Not a nice thing to have in a car tank or any where near people!
    it leaks thought steel and is very explosive.
    Chance of mainstream hydrogen power are about the same as those for cold fission.
    around 0

    http://www.dogandlemon.com/media?page=20

    Myth Hydrogen will take over from oil as the world’s leading source of energy

    Wrong. Firstly, hydrogen is not a form of energy; it’s a means of storing energy and a very inefficient one. The problem is simple: making hydrogen takes more energy than you get back, it’s difficult to store and highly dangerous

    When Bill Reinert, the manager of American Toyota’s Advanced Technologies Group, was asked how long it would take for hydrogen-powered cars to replace petrol-powered cars, he replied, “If I told you ‘never,’ would you be upset?”

    Many scientists are now equally sceptical that hydrogen can ever be a feasible alternative to petrol. In 2005, Ralph J. Cicerone, president of prestigious American National Academy of Sciences, told the U.S. Senate that there were: “substantial technological and economic barriers in all phases of the hydrogen fuel cycle.”

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  95. cha (4,017 comments) says:

    A $5 billion punt on a lithium-ion battery plant and a hint that there may be a technology giveaway – things are moving.

    Tesla boss Elon Musk has given the strongest hint yet that the firm is considering “freeing” its patents to help speed up electric car development.

    When asked by the BBC’s Theo Leggett if he was considering giving technology away, Mr Musk said “you’re on the right track”.

    Mr Musk said he hoped to break down technological barriers to help speed up electric car adoption.

    The firm will deliver the first five of its Model S cars to the UK on Saturday

    http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-27741041

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  96. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    kowtow (7,164 comments) says:
    June 9th, 2014 at 2:26 pm
    Ethos that made them outcasts?
    ……..
    It looks like it was a general attitude in those times from what I’ve been reading (except in the countryside where the extra worker was welcomed)?

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  97. cha (4,017 comments) says:

    Ethos that made them outcasts?

    This one?.

    .

    Elderly locals recalled that the children attended a local school — but were segregated from other pupils and routinely bullied — until they were adopted or placed, around age 7 or 8, into church-run industrial schools that featured unpaid labor and abuse. In keeping with Catholic teaching, such out-of-wedlock children were denied baptism and, if they died at such facilities, Christian burial.

    http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/6/3/irish-church-underfireoverchildrensmassgrave.html

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  98. wikiriwhis business (4,006 comments) says:

    ‘Ethos that made them outcasts?’

    Statements that should naturally move onto US pre war eugenics which saw children taken out of society and cruelly experimented on. Financed by the same industrialists who financed Hitler and his party. Exposed by marine general Smedley when they tried to get him on their side.

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  99. cha (4,017 comments) says:

    which saw children taken out of society and cruelly experimented on

    That too.

    .

    Over 2,000 babies and young children at a number of Irish orphanages linked to the mass baby graves scandal were injected with a vaccine for diphtheria in the 1930s, it has been revealed. The children were used as guinea pigs on behalf of drugs giant Burroughs Wellcome. No evidence of consent has been discovered and there are no records of how many children became ill or died as a result.

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/irish-baby-graves-scandal-2-000-children-used-153819369.html#K85ZTJ8

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  100. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Reminds me of Monty Python’s ‘Meaning of Life’, where the Catholic father decides to sell his children for medical experiments.

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  101. All_on_Red (1,583 comments) says:

    Griff
    Well they’re trying and investing a lot. Honda is having a go too.I suspect what Reinart also meant was the combustion engine will be with us for a long time. Just look how efficient the i8 hybrid is.
    We will see.

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  102. lurcher1948 (151 comments) says:

    Listening to Cam Slater on NewsTalkZB the cauldren whatever fuck cam take a pill mate keep to the subject,cam dont hit the microphone,TAKE YOUR PILLS CAM woffling

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  103. stigie (1,184 comments) says:

    “They’re mostly hillbillies who live way out in the sticks, clapped out used car salesmen, or losers with no money, and who for any of those reasons, can’t get the psychiatric care they need. All obsessives.”

    Shit, sounds like these people need government help….wonder if they vote Labour/Greens/Imp ?

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  104. Albert_Ross (293 comments) says:

    All_on_Red, discussions about whether this or that technology is the best way to go in addressing climate change miss the important insight, borne out by years and years of observation, that Governments are consistently useless at picking technology winners. It’s markets that develop and deploy technological advances, not Governments.

    What will incentivize businesses to develop and market low-carbon solutions, and consumers to buy them? Altering the profitability/cost comparison between low-carbon and carbon-intensive, that’s what. The point of a carbon tax, and even more so the point of emissions trading, is to improve the relative attractiveness (profitability, consumer value for money) of low-carbon goods and services compared to carbon-intensive ones.

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  105. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    stigie

    Last time I drove into town for ma appointment I done got ma Dodge Charger stuck in a tree while being chased by Rosco P. Coltrane.

    Daisy & I will make another break for it tomorrow. :)

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  106. Griff (7,719 comments) says:

    We should also penalize those who chose to use large inefficient cars.
    Including my v6 camry. :lol:
    At present our perverse road user tax regime encourages the use of larger diesel suv’s and takes away the monetary gains available for using small efficient diesels cars.
    Personally I believe small plug in hybrids with compression ignition will be the cars of the future for at lest as long as I will be driving.
    Ceramic technology may stop the heat problems of metal engines making gains in efficient combustion along with lighter composite structures … 100mpg …2.3l 100 km for an every day car is not far off now. this along with googles drivers-less technology promise personal transport will be around for a while yet.

    This is an interesting development for the infernal combustion engines future direction. http://www.ceramicrotaryengines.com/
    I wouldn’t bank on it though to fringe as yet.

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  107. stigie (1,184 comments) says:

    So it was you he was talking about Nasska…Nah, thats not you surely !!

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  108. lurcher1948 (151 comments) says:

    http://youtu.be/HDLLXUaqZxg

    Politics and blogs are like this womens hips,do you believe what you read and see, this womens hips could seem like the words coming out of PM keys mouth,she walks away at the end of her act and so will key if he dosnt win, the man isnt in it for NZ

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  109. Griff (7,719 comments) says:

    :lol:
    much prefer the original version at a tea party in Boston

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  110. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    The spin job the Godsodden attempted this morning would have qualified them for an Oscar but it was economical with fact & truth. Just to bring what happened at Catholic run baby factories in Ireland back into focus.

    ….”In 2001, the Washington Post reported:

    Milotte, a senior reporter for the Irish television network
    RTE, says life was particularly hard for the mothers in
    these convents, which were largely self-sustaining due
    to the women’s free labor but also received public
    funding. It was quite a profitable business for the nuns.
    They exploited the women for labor and then sold their
    children for large amounts of money into adoption. The
    priests and nuns received money from the adoptive
    parents, who paid “confinement and medical costs”
    associated with their child’s birth.

    Where did the money go?” he wonders. “It sustained
    the people who ran the institutions in a manner they
    wouldn’t have otherwise enjoyed.” “…..

    Ref: http://www.vaticancrimes.us/2013/05/nuns-caught-trafficking-thousands-of.html

    Not a bad little earner was it?

    1) Subsidy from Councils or Government to provide the “care & facilities”.

    2) Charge the mother a hundred quid for “services rendered” if she didn’t leave the baby for adoption. If she’s a bit skint then that’s okay….she can work it off doing unpaid work in a laundry for a couple of years.

    3) Charge the laundry services at the going commercial rate.

    4) If the anklebiter survives the abuse sell it to adoptive parents, often in the USA, for a good little backhander plus full expenses.

    What a racket…..even the Black Power couldn’t put a money spinner like that together.

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  111. cha (4,017 comments) says:

    Barn dance at nasska’s.

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  112. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    Griff

    They’ll drag the keys of my Landcruiser 70, 6 cyl. 4.2l, turboed diesel out of my cold, dead hands. :)

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  113. stigie (1,184 comments) says:

    Nasska knows some very talented people there cha !~

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  114. Griff (7,719 comments) says:

    Its pretty much the same scam that the christian brothers pulled with stolen children in oz nasska.
    Told the parents they had died in care then shipped the kids to oz .
    They were paid to steal them, ship them and then support them .
    Except the good brothers also used the unfortunate kids as sexual objects along with the use as free slave labor and human punching bags.

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  115. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    Their goodness & mercy knows no bounds Griff.

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  116. Harriet (4,972 comments) says:

    “……They’ll drag the keys of my Landcruiser 70, 6 cyl. 4.2l, turboed diesel out of my cold, dead hands….”

    More likely from the ignition……coward…. :cool:

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  117. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    Where’s our hardworking and conscientious public servant?

    He found time (no doubt in a very busy work schedule) to comment on the “Second largest religions by US states” and “Joyce rated more valuable than Cunliffe” threads earlier. But he hasn’t commented on any thread since 4:24 pm.

    When should we send out a search party? :)

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  118. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Hi there.

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  119. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    But this is your own time Mike. :)

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  120. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    Wow that’s spooky – Mikenmild must have been lurking – or should that be larking:

    To do a Larking is to wander around aimlessly in your workplace, chatting to anyone who will listen to you in order to avoid your duties in your workplace as much as possible.

    :)

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  121. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I could still be at work, nasska. How would you know?

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  122. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    Overtime too? :)

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  123. Harriet (4,972 comments) says:

    “…..Where’s our hardworking and conscientious public servant?…”

    You mean the one who gets to keep his job only because he is gay? – everyone else would be fired.

    He not only has a state funded job for life but a publicy funded sexual lifestyle too. Unlike smokers and drinkers he doesn’t contribute one brass razoo to the cost of his irresponsable ways. The public health system treats his kind over and over and over again. Nothing deters them from their irresponsable ways. Unlike smokers and drinkers.

    Sexual healthcare should be like dentistry – pay as you go.

    Milky is the gay whore of the welfare system! :cool:

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  124. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    When I was a landlord, five one bedroom flats, I didn’t bother with tenancy agreements or pay bonds to that tenancy outfit, I just told the tenants if they missed a rent payment, wreaked anything or made too much noise they’d find their chattels out on berm.
    No fucking about. Only had to do it once when one tenant went walkabout and the rent payments stopped. Living on site helped keep things under control.

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  125. Griff (7,719 comments) says:

    At least its actually a 4×4 not a overbuilt remuera* kiddy delivery wagon.
    And you can buy 70’s new still. it now comes with the 4.5 v8 so I am sure the keys could be pried if the incentive trade in deal on a new 70lx was right.
    Going from the old 122kw and 380nm to 151kw and 480nm would make me think hard

    *translates as burnt arse. :lol:

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  126. Steve (North Shore) (4,563 comments) says:

    “……They’ll drag the keys of my Landcruiser 70, 6 cyl. 4.2l, turboed diesel out of my cold, dead hands….

    More likely from the ignition’

    You reckon nasska needs a key to start a 1970 diesel? hahahaha

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  127. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    How did you know I was gay, Harriet?

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  128. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    A mates got one of the V8s Griff….goes well & would be about the best tow vehicle I’ve driven. The TD4200 only came out for 2005/6 & was the original 4.2 block with a redesigned head to take the turbo. Mine’s only done about 180,000 so I reckon she’ll see me out.

    Amazingly they’re still fetching over $30K in good nick.

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  129. Griff (7,719 comments) says:

    Should get at lest 400,000kms with no props at all provided its not boiled up and the oil gets changed once in a while.
    I have seen a few 4.2td’s that haven’t made that far due to lack of maintenance or a lose nut behind the wheel.

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  130. Floyd60 (92 comments) says:

    Free market scum.

    Staff reports http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/10136869/Stockbroker-admits-to-duping-associates

    “Self-employed Auckland stockbroker Gregory Alan Arnott has admitted duping his own associates through a stock options trading fraud.

    The 51 year old was the director of Derivatek New Zealand, and traded options on the Australian stock exchange on behalf of local clients.

    He pleaded guilty in the Auckland District Court today to 10 criminal charges laid by the Serious Fraud Office (SFO), which alleged he misused his clients’ money.

    Arnott admitted that between April 2008 and May 2012 he used investors’ cash to repay other clients, and fund part of an advance fee in an attempt to get a US$20 million (NZ$23.5m) loan.

    He also issued false statements to his investors in order to cover up the fraud, the SFO said.

    SFO director Julie Read said Arnott had earned the trust of a group of investors through his personal association with them.”

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  131. publicwatchdog (2,596 comments) says:

    In my opinion if there is an Epsom by-election – National will lose the 2014 election. Why? Because an Epsom by-election will keep the focus on corruption – which is the last thing PM John Key wants. A by-election will not happen if 75% of MPs vote against it. That’s 91 MPs. If Labour want to defeat John Keys National-led Govt they will NOT vote against an Epsom by-election. It won’t be a waste of money – it will be an investment in the fight against corruption . Penny Bright

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  132. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/fslc6zuzqptl8gi/Water%201.jpg

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  133. stigie (1,184 comments) says:

    And nuts !~

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  134. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    My Muslim neighbour told me today that he thought his new wife has alopecia.

    “Fuck off !” I replied. “She’s got a better moustache than Yosemite Sam……her pubes will grow when she reaches puberty.”

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  135. Harriet (4,972 comments) says:

    “……How did you know I was gay, Harriet?….”

    It goes without saying.

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  136. adze (2,126 comments) says:

    @publicwatchdog

    “If Labour want to defeat John Keys National-led Govt they will NOT vote against an Epsom by-election. It won’t be a waste of money – it will be an investment in the fight against corruption ”

    Yeah because Labour’s never fiddled the books in electoral law right? Still only fighting against the blue team? Why am I not surprised.

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  137. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Have you considered standing for Epsom Penny?

    The good burghers of that well-heeled electorate are probably looking for a steady sort of chap like you too splurge their largesse on in an endeavour to create stable government after the way they’ve been so shabbily treated by both ACT and the NAT’s? :)

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  138. publicwatchdog (2,596 comments) says:

    I’m opposed to corruption. Consistent and persistent. Which is why I’m getting some nibbles? http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com Kind regards Penny Bright

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  139. adze (2,126 comments) says:

    Pssst Penny… I’ll let you into a secret. If you claim to be against corruption as a matter of principle, it’s not a good look if you only look at one particular bloc in parliament. Technically, that’s corruption. :)

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  140. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    I can see a situation where if the rich folks of Epsom offered to settle your rates bill and set you up with a stipend to be their watchdog in lieu of Banksie being in a position to carry out those duties Penny you should seriously be considering the offer?

    Principles are fine but one must consider putting bread on the table as well of course! :)

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  141. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    After all the hugely principled MP’s of the Green party are happy to accept their salaries and no doubt invest them wisely with help from their accountants. Why should you suffer for your beliefs? :)

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  142. Griff (7,719 comments) says:

    Would refusing to pay your rates be corrupt? would the fact that someone has done so publicly for years and not suffered the consequences be corrupt?
    Defiantly in my book there is some sort of fear on the part of the authorities in prosecuting this particular freeloader.

    I am sure If a nonentity like for instance Griff was to refuse to pay his allotted stipend for the use of the public facility’s he occupies in Auckland he would find a official backlash against his use of the allotted space happening quick smart.
    In fact the arc chased Griff over one bounced payment with vigor within weeks of said payment being bounced.
    Just because I was fucking the woman responsible for the payments at that time did not curry me any favors with the powers that be. In fact it was even more urgent in that not only did the council hound me for the monies on top of that I was informed that for my sex life to be continued unsanctioned as it were I must pay the bounced stipend pronto.

    So my question for you mz Bright is what do you hold over the council that they have ignored your refusal to pay?… and can I have some?

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  143. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    “How did you know I was gay, Harriet?”

    We all know that milkey. The giveaway is that you always leave the “M” for Marist off HOBM.

    Haven’t quite come to grips with the Catholic side of your sexuality obviously! :)

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  144. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    I’m a bit concerned how Penny’s managing to have a shower since her water’s been cut off.

    She’s welcome to pop down to Wainui and have a bathe in my sheepdip as long as she brings my barbed wire of course! :)

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  145. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    Look what I found

    http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/95913770

    it’s an Ocker cheese roll!!!

    Those poor southern hillbillies will be beside themselves now that it seems that their only contribution to world gastronomy was stolen from the ockers!!

    But lets be realistic here,hillbillies, it wasn’t really up to much in the first place, was it? In the real world a cheese roll usually consists of a bread roll, filled with cheese, maybe some sliced tomato and lettuce, and a tasty smearing of mustard. I prefer Greek style Mediterranean Mustard with Oregano and Thyme.

    But these atrocious “cheese rolls” you hillbillies seem to think are so wonderful. Someone has to be taking the p!ss, surely? Three dollars for a rolled up bit of stale bread with some moldy cheese inside. No thanks!

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  146. adze (2,126 comments) says:

    Now why did you have to post that DP?

    Now I feel like a cheese toastie. Grrr.

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  147. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    This is some good mustard

    http://www.huckleberryfarms.co.nz/shop/Delicatessen/Olives/MK+Oregano++Thyme+Mustard+200g.html

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  148. cha (4,017 comments) says:

    Bugger

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  149. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    critic Barry Shaw got very excited over that scene where Rick ferrets about in the girl’s purse and finds a tampon. Apparently it was the most terrible thing Bazz had ever scene on the telly. How times have changed!!

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