About
Contact
Advertise

Facebook
Twitter

December 6, 2008 8:00am by David Farrar

General Debate 6 December 2008

Only post for today probably as DPF is on holiday.

Share this:

Facebook
X
LinkedIn
Reddit
WhatsApp
More

Pinterest
Print
Tumblr

Like this:

Like Loading…

Email
Facebook
Twitter
Comment64

Uncategorized
General Debate

Related Stories

General Debate 7 December 2008
DPF busy
General Debate

Comments (64)

Login to comment or vote

Lee C

Did Cullen lie to the New Zealand public – is this an offence under the Finance Act?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 8:21am
dad4justice

I thought telling lies as a Minister of the Crown was some sort of criminality?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 8:25am
a3catlady

In total contrast to the political nonsense we have had to listen to, particularly this year – the Herald has named Austin Hemmings and Tony MacLean as New Zealanders of the Year – Thank God we have people like them…. for whom it was simple to make the choices that they did and that lead to their deaths. It is comforting to know we still have many more like them because of the way those involved in each of these tragedies have responded. Murray Burton, the principal from Elim, the parents from those families, the students from Elim, Austins wife, children and extended family too. We all have a LOT to learn from the example of these people and those that surround them. Their grace, compassion, leadership, hope in the worst times of their lives is an example to us all. Rather than the wholesale criticism/cynacism and dissmissal that is so often evident in a multitude of forums to christians, a little more open mindedness to exploring things “Christian” by us all, would not go astray. These outstanding people obviously find great strength and comfort in their faith and that is something we could all do with more of.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 8:31am
hubbers

Labour were the least honest government we have had in a long time. This should come as no surprise.

How would Labour have spun it if they had won? Could they have denied that they told themselves?

Now that Clark is gone Goff is in an ideal situation to say Labour have changed leadership and as such they have changed our ways. This is pretty normal in politics to start fresh by distancing yourself from the leader who lost. Especially when they lost badly.

But for some reason Goff refuses to do what most politicians have done before him and he is still towing the party line that Saint Helen, Genius Cullen and Labour in general have done no wrong and can do no wrong.

Perhaps Goff drank a little too much of the coolade while waiting in the wings. Perhaps he just doesn’t have the numbers or the backbone to cut the old guard loose and start afresh.

Also when is Saint Helen getting that important international job that we heard so much about during the election?

And finally. Now that we are officially broke that massively overpriced train set doesn’t look so bloody smart does it?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 8:47am
Camryn

Just a general reading tip for Kiwibloggers… find and read any Theodore Dalrymple that you can. This article is a good start.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_4_oh_to_be.html

I recently gave a copy of one of his books to my mother and she said it made her wish she could send copies to every politician, headmaster, and social worker in the land.

And in case anyone thinks he exaggerates, or doubts the horror that excessively available welfare (without checks, balances, or consequences) can lead to…

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1092012/Seven-children-fathers-ring-Argos–Lazy-sex-mad-Karen-Matthews-symbolises-broken-Britain.html
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 9:16am
MyNameIsJack

Just been reading the latest bullshit from Telecom, courtesy of a banner ad on this site, re their “Business Broadband” and found this absolute classic.

“Content screening – stops staff accessing unrelated work sites.”. Is there anyone left at Telecom who has English as a first language?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 9:20am
Johnboy

““Content screening – stops staff accessing unrelated work sites.”

Time that plan was adopted at all union headquarters.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 10:04am
grumpyoldhori

a3catlady, bollocks I have nothing to learn from any religion.
Amusing how so many so called religious types believe we should not have freedom from religion.
Maybe it is about time we had a few Muslim missionaries going door to door winding up the punters.
Because I see them as no different from any other busybody Christian type
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 10:13am
MyNameIsJack

then johnboy, you obviously ahve the same level of comprehension as the dipstick who wrote that line.

What, pray tell, is an unrelated work site?

And what gives you the right to specify what should be done in any workplace other than your own?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 10:14am
MyNameIsJack

grumpy, I have learned much from religion, mainly that it is no way to arrange a good life.

I often wonder if those who say we should follow the 10 commandments have actually read them all.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 10:16am
Ross Miller

Gueez grumpyoldhori … that I possessed the absolute certainty you obiviously do.

For some who post here socialism is clearly a religion and almost a cult where deviation from the ‘Party’ line is heresy.

Many of us are much more balanced than that (guess it goes with the territory of being normal).
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 10:26am
Johnboy

Sorry if I have offended you Jack. My comment was intended as a joke suggesting that union organisers would be better employed looking after the interests of their members rather than spending all day on the internet defending the disaster that was the third Labour Government. It was obviously too subtle for you to understand. I will see if I can get those smiley things to work so thickos realise when I am jesting.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 10:29am
expat

LOL! Grumpy, Too bloody right!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 10:32am
PhilBest

Camryn (115) 2 0 Says:
December 6th, 2008 at 9:16 am

“Just a general reading tip for Kiwibloggers… find and read any Theodore Dalrymple that you can. This article is a good start…”

http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_4_oh_to_be.html

ABSOLUTELY, Camryn.

I have posted that article, “The Frivolity of Evil”, here on Kiwiblog several times. If I was making a list of “must read” articles, for people to become better informed against the rot that is coming over our society, that one would be near the top.

I also recommend: “Policeman In Wonderland”

http://www.city-journal.org/html/10_2_oh_to_be.html

which begins:

“The long march through the institutions—by which radical intellectuals have sought to remake society surreptitiously, without resort to the barricades—has succeeded so completely in Britain that it sometimes seems that a Nietzschean transvaluation of all values has taken place. The police are a prime case in point. Their leaders are now so desperate for the approval of liberal critics that they often seem more focused on public relations than on crime prevention and detection—on protecting their reputation rather than protecting the public. As a result, Britain is suffering a crime wave that is affecting areas hitherto spared, such as the West End of London—street robbery in the capital having increased by a fifth in the last 12 months alone…….”

NOTE THAT: “The Long March Through The Institutions…….”.

Theodore Dalrymple is one of those rare, valuable beasts, a “conservative” commentator who is actually awake to this threat. I guarantee that hardly a one of our National Government’s MP’s knows anything of this, most conservatives so-called in NZ at least, are completely asleep to this real threat to our culture’s long term survival. John Howard’s government was a rare exception in this respect.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 11:25am
PhilBest

Here is a reading list on the subject of cultural marxism and political correctness: (I won’t do “Links” as the system would not like it, Google should bring these up)

“Who Stole Our Culture”; “Dead But Not Gone”; and “What is Cultural Marxism?” by William S. LIND

“The Historical Roots of Political Correctness” by Raymond V. RAEHN

“Gramsci’s Grand Plan” by James THORNTON

“Gramsci: A Method To the Madness” by William Norman GRIGG

“What is the Frankfurt School” by Gerald L. ATKINSON

“Enthralled By Cultural Marxism” by Chuck MORSE

“Gramsci and the US Body Politic” by Alberto LUZARRAGA

“The Frankfurt School: Its History, Theories, and Political Significance” BOOK by Rolf Wiggershaus; REVIEW by David WEININGER

“Why There is a Culture War” by John FONTE

“Missing Diversity”; “Today’s Culture Wars”; and “Up From Multiculturalism” By David Horowitz

“The Ongoing Marxist March against The Western Mind” by Frank MORRISS

“What if you found out that bad stuff is happening on purpose?” By Charley REESE

“The New Left, Cultural Marxism, and Psychopolitics disguised as Multiculturalism” By Linda KIMBALL

“Political Correctness: The Revenge of Marxism” by “Fjordman”

And if you want to read an essay by a Leftist who instead of denying “The Long March” exists, which is what most of them do; actually presents it as a positive good (the bastard…!) try THIS one (and there are others)

“Cultural Marxism and Cultural Studies” By Douglas Kellner
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 11:35am
PhilBest

GrumpyOldHori, you know I regard you as an intelligent, open-minded sort, please make the effort to read THIS:

(Same goes for Ryan Sproull and those possessing similar scepticism about the reasons for Western advancement and prosperity).

“Did Western Civilisation Survive the 20th Century?”

By Alan Charles Kors, Professor of History at Pennsylvania University.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2751/is_1999_Winter/ai_58381627/print?tag=artBody;col1
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 11:40am
Adolf Fiinkensein

MNIJ, very well spotted. It took me a while to figure out what he was trying to say.

GOH you dick. The freedom you are guaranteed is ‘freedom OF religion.’ If you want freedom FROM religion then I suggest you go out and immediately cut your throat. Then you’ll have all the freedom for which you could ever wish. I suggest you stand in the creek while you do it though. Then you’ll give everyone else freedom from having to clean up your mess.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 11:41am
PhilBest

Concluding paragraphs from “Did Western Civilisation Survive the 20th Century”

By Alan Charles Kors

“……. It was not surprising, therefore, that those Christian universities were far more dynamic and productive of intellectual innovation than their caricaturists–either their rebellious children or their later historians–ever allowed. The great minds whom we associate with the conceptual revolutions of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries were almost all educated by those universities, and they remained true to the call to know an independent reality by means of human inquiry and reason, avoiding logical error, false induction and a failure to account for appearances. Although there were many radical ruptures in the history of certain disciplines in the West, there were no radical ruptures with the Western compact with reality and reason.

It is this compact that led to a civilization in which religion itself led the scrutiny against superstition, which gave rebirth to critical scholarship and, ultimately, to a tolerated heterodoxy that could question the West’s religion itself; a civilization in which the mind could appeal against the irrational with ultimate success–however slow the appellate process–to the rational; a civilization in which belief in learning as a constant self-correction, the goal of which was understanding of a reality that did not depend on a human self, led to the sciences that have changed both the entire human relationship to nature, and our sense of human possibilities tempered by our knowledge of human nature and society.

The fruits of that civilization have been an unprecedented ability to modify the remediable causes of human suffering, to give great agency to utility and charity alike; to give to each individual a degree of choice and freedom unparalleled in all of human history; and to offer a means of overcoming the station in life to which one was born by the effort of one’s labor, mind and will.

A BUNDANT AS they have been, with merely those fruits the civilization of the West might well have remained a parochial one to the rest of the world, closed, xenophobic and all-conquering. There have been those, indeed, who wished and worked for that, and there have been depredations occasioned by our arrogance–which we subject to critical study and restudy in almost all domains of social, political and moral knowledge. The drama, however, is that this civilization of the West, for all of its faults and sins, believed that its values and knowledge were not parochial, but universal, the birthright of every human life and soul. It believed, in the final analysis, that its values transcended its own geographical space.

To believe, as the multiculturalists do, that this is a source of suffering, not hope, in the world as the twentieth century ends is to break the compact with reality, with reason, and with the logic of inductive inference. Let the inhabitants of the world take or leave that offering–we have come, by our own dynamic and experience, to treasure voluntary, not coerced, exchange–but to the extent that Western civilization survives, and only to that extent, the hope of the world survives: the hope to eradicate unnecessary suffering; to speak a language of human dignity, responsibility and rights linked to a common reality; to minimize the depredations of the irrational, the unexamined, the merely prejudicial in our lives; to understand–with the possibility that both interest and charity will apply that understanding for good–the world in which we find ourselves.

Has that civilization survived? Which is to ask: Has a human relationship to the world based upon the assumption of a knowable reality, reason, and a transcendent value to human dignity and responsibility survived? Has a recognition of human depravity and the distinctively Western recognition of the need to limit the power of men over men survived? It is also to ask whether human beings throughout the world, observing the fruits of different ways of being human, find foundational importance in the way of the West. Free men and women are not likely to abandon that hard-won shelter from chaos, ignorance, parochial tribalism, irrationalism and, ultimately, helplessness that after enormous effort–and frequent failure–Western civilization has succeeded in erecting.”

TOUCHE, Professor Kors………..
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 11:46am
PhilBest

On an unrelated but important issue:

I have only just begun to grasp the horror of the implications of THIS:

“…..In May, the Reserve Bank offered to accept residential mortgage-backed securities from banks as collateral for cash to provide them with an additional funding option.

The facility was designed in case the global credit markets deteriorated further and banks found it harder to access cash.

At the time, the Reserve Bank considered the likelihood of the facility being drawn on was “extremely low”. Westpac and ANZ National became the first to put a facility in place last week.

Westpac also had substantial undrawn credit lines available from its Australian parent, as well as sizeable liquid securities, Mr McLachlan said. “No one can predict what is going to happen over the next three months, but I would like to use it modestly.”

Westpac had “reasonable sums of offshore funding falling due over the next few months,” he said……”

The NZ Reserve Bank propping up our Mortgage Finance Sector as their exposure to their excessive overseas borrowing of the past few years comes back to bite them; playing “Freddie Mac/ Fannie Mae” in the process……

ARE THEY MAAAAAAD???????????
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 11:52am
kiwipolemicist

What does everyone think about Australis trialing state censorship of the interenet? Protecting kids is their excuse.

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/12/06/australian-government-is-calling-internet-censorship-cyber-safety/
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 11:55am
Brian Smaller

Grumpy – I am an atheist. However, I see that 2000 years of Christianity, coupled with the philosophies of the the last several centuries of european philosphy and thought, and all the trials and tribulations along the way have got us to the point where I can be an atheist and not executed for it. I don’t feel threatened Christians and never have been. Can’t say the same for Muslims. Try being an avowed atheist in ANY Islamic country.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 11:56am
Adolf Fiinkensein

PhilBest, no you are. You need Gavascon, double issue.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 12:07pm
Madeleine

Grumpyoldhori you might have nothing to learn from religion but you could certainly gain a lot by learning something about it before opening your mouth.

Christianity is the source of the doctrine of freedom of religion. Islam restricts it. Most people would be able to spot some difference between the two.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 12:09pm
Christopher

In total contrast to the political nonsense we have had to listen to, particularly this year – the Herald has named Austin Hemmings and Tony MacLean as New Zealanders of the Year – Thank God we have people like them

I completely agree.

Isn’t it sad that if Austin Hemmings had survived, he probably would have been prosecuted?

I guess the NZ police prefer their heroes dead
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 12:12pm
Johnboy

“Christianity is the source of the doctrine of freedom of religion. Islam restricts it. Most people would be able to spot some difference between the two.”

Only time Madeleine:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom%C3%A1s_de_Torquemada
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 12:37pm
PhilBest

And the difference between the life of Mohammed, and the life of Jesus Christ; Johnboy?

Debate over, game, set, and match.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 12:47pm
Johnboy

“What does everyone think about Australis trialing state censorship of the interenet? Protecting kids is their excuse.”

Thanks for that KP. Its what you get when you vote Labour (even when they claim to be capitalists in disguise) like Rudd and the ex Helen.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 12:47pm
goodgod

I guess the NZ police prefer their heroes dead

NZ prefers it’s heroes dead – period. Much easier to control the people that way, no one gets any ideas of also standing out in the crowd by manifesting the values that a succesion of social liberal governments no longer want. No one can live up to the standard and still be alive. You can yell abuse at the kids in the name of heores and tell them they’ll never be as good. Keep the buggars down. A triumph of anti-motivational skill. Fun stuff, eh?

I remember the first batch of heroes named by Helen. They were all dead. NZ is sick and it doesn’t know it. I think that’s called insanity.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 12:56pm
Johnboy

“And the difference between the life of Mohammed, and the life of Jesus Christ; Johnboy?
Debate over, game, set, and match.”

Sorry don’t quite follow you there Phil?

Jesus—some debate but 33 to 38 years old at death.
Mohammed 570 to 632=62 at death.

??????
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 1:01pm
PhilBest

Johnboy (946) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
December 6th, 2008 at 1:01 pm

“And the difference between the life of Mohammed, and the life of Jesus Christ; Johnboy?
Debate over, game, set, and match.”

“Sorry don’t quite follow you there Phil?”

Then check it out.

Did Jesus lead armed bands around, killing and conquering?

Not that that is the only difference. The difference is so total that it is repugnant to even suggest any comparison. You have to be pretty ignorant not to get that in the first place.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 1:08pm
Johnboy

“Did Jesus lead armed bands around, killing and conquering?”

Ah now I understand your question Phil you will have to make them more clear. Perhaps you should try those smiley faces too. The answer is no I think but as I posted earlier to Madeleine his followers obviously did. Perhaps Mohammed was just more of an upfront sort of fellow. Don’t misunderstand me here I am with GOH on the religious front. Gave it all away forty years ago except for my abiding hate of socialists. Call that a religion if you must. I just class it as an obsession that I am very proud of. If it concerns you further I am happy to help shoot all muslims or christians as long as we put all other religions against the wall as well (except commo haters).

“””Pretend this is a smiley face””””
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 1:18pm
kiwipolemicist

Johnboy: you’re welcome
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 1:40pm
Ross Miller

The things that are done in the name of religion …. in 1975 I was serving an attachment to the Malaysian Army at Sijil Kursus Tentara Darat. The authorities automatically added 10 ringitt to my mess bill every month as my ‘freewill’ contribution to the building of Mosque Negara. That I was not one of ‘them’ just didn’t count.

About the only win I have ever have with the IRD was that they accepted my contention this was tax deductable.

But I do note with a degree of sadness the same level of forced tithing is a feature of many PI churches both in the Islands and here. Difference was/is that I could probably afford it … many PIs can’t.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 1:45pm
kiwipolemicist

Johnboy: don’t forget that National is only marginally less evil than Labour, if at all. Key is a Keynsian socialist.

(no offence intended towards any National supporters)

http://www.kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 1:45pm
Johnboy

Ah but he is much better looking than Helen and definitely has better teeth.—-(pretend smiley face)

(Can any of you smartarses tell a poor dumb old pensioner like me how to get real smiley faces not pretend ones.)

(No really disgusting suggestions will be responded to.)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 1:56pm
labrator

Not that I like them or anything but it is just a colon character followed by a closing round bracket. There are no spaces imbetween these two characters. Standard text language layout for which there is probably a reference online somewhere. 🙂 = : ) 😉 = ; )
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 3:12pm
Rex Widerstrom

MyNameIsJack asks:

What, pray tell, is an unrelated work site?

The lane on the motorway that’s blocked off with cones and flashing signs and which causes an enormous tailback but which, when you finally drive past it, there are merely a group of ridiculously overpaid “contractors” standing around looking at the ground in a manner entirely unrelated to work. 😀

Meanwhile… 43 new speed cameras at a cost of $4million?! This is the best use of our taxpayer dollars on road safety over the holidays?!

Superintendent Paula Rose, the national road policing manager, said speed cameras had been an essential tool in moving on from the “killing fields” on the roads a generation ago. “Today we’ve got faster cars, we’ve got young people accessing fast cars … so what a success rate.”

There are no fatality statistics recorded in that story so I assume the “success rate” of which she’s so proud is the 4.4 million tickets netting the last government “at least $350 million” over the decade.

I’d be interested to hear how many people remember “the killing fields of a generation ago”. I certainly don’t. Road deaths, yes – but in much the same numbers as we have now. No surprise, then, to see the LTSA only showing figures going back to 2004 but according to Wikipedia:

The New Zealand road toll exhibited a downward trend between 1990 and 2002, which was attributed to a number of factors:

– A reduction in drink driving, due to public education and strict policing.
– Improvements in vehicle safety.
– An increase in the wearing of seat belts due to public education
– Hazard mitigation works on dangerous stretches of road.

Since 2002, the main focus of road policing changed, concentrating mainly on reduction of average road speed. Despite extensive public education, heavy policing and a marked improvement in the road fleet, the downward trend previously evident has ceased.[my emphasis]

What was it someone was saying earlier, in relation to Michael Cullen, about public servants telling blatant, self-serving lies to their masters?

Resign, Superintendent Paula Rose, but only after you’ve apologised to the millions of people you’ve robbed and criminalised on behalf of the government and the families of the thousands of road accident victims who’d be alive today if you’d actually implemented effective road toll reduction methods instead of patting yourself on the back for your skills as a revenue gouger.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 3:19pm
kiwipolemicist

Johnboy: see http://faq.wordpress.com/2006/06/04/what-smilies-can-i-use/

There has to be a space at both ends of the “code”.

You’re right about John Key: he’s seems like a labrador compared to the wolf-in-a-foul-mood that Helen is. But the heart of a socialist wolf beats inside that labrador.

http://www.kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 3:23pm
Put it away

the computer geniuses at The Standard talking nonsense about the metadata in DPF’s election results doc. Desperate stuff LOL
http://www.thestandard.org.nz/farrar-back-on-the-ps-payroll/
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 3:31pm
dime

why do the left defend Islam? do they secretly enjoy the oppression of women?

i gotta say, i prefer a smart, funny chick to one that isnt allowed to read!! well.. they both have their uses 😛 but ya get the idea!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 3:56pm
Put it away

Maybe they support Islam as a mental exercise to keep their doublethink up to standard. Find a group that believes the exact opposite of the things you claim to stand for, and simultaneously believe you are both right.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 4:23pm
Johnboy

😀
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 5:10pm
PhilBest

I have said it before, “Put it away”, that it is possible to predict where the “liberal” left will stand on any given issue, by their relationship with Christianity and nothing else. If it undermines our longstanding Christian tradition, the “liberal” Left will be for it. That is why you get these absurd hypocrisies where both radical anti-family feminism in the West, is “good”; and other cultures that practice genital mutilation and treat women as chattels, are ALSO “good”.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 5:37pm
PhilBest

Oh, and also, “liberal” leftism, multiculturalism, etc; generally involves people being able to feel superior and good about themselves in any situation without having to bother their heads about morally assessing messy real world situations.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 5:40pm
PhilBest

Johnboy, returning to your obsession with “all religions”, shooting “all Christians and Muslims”, etc; consider this question.

If we were to poll all Christians in the world today, whether they admired Thomas Torquemada; and if you were to poll all Muslims in the world, today whether they admire Osama Bin Laden, don’t you think the results might be very revealing? Don’t you think your notions of “equivalence” are more than just a tad unfair to Christians AND Jesus Christ Himself?

It is revealing that one brings down more negative karma than positive by saying these things; clearly our contemporary culture is indeed more “anti-Christian”, full stop, than it is multiculturally tolerant. It is revealing too, how our contemporary culture has put over some sort of bullshit lie about Christians having “started it”, with the Crusades, leading to lengthy wars between Chrisanity and Islam. MATE. How pigshit ignorant do people have to be about history? Battle of Tours, 732AD; Islam invading mainland France after having conquered all North Africa and Spain. FIRST Crusade; 1098AD. Between those 2 dates, we have invasion after invasion, conquest after conquest, genocide after genocide, BY Islam against Christian territories. We have centuries of attack after attack commencing around 1030 against the Christian capital of Constantinople before it finally fell.

Yeah, sounds like Christians”starting it” to me, yeah right. And where are the Christian movements today, demanding Constantinople back and blowing up Muslims in the thousands until this ancient grievance is righted?

Read that essay by Alan Charles Kors that I linked to above and quoted an excerpt from. You owe everything you have, to the fact that the culture from which the benign modern nation state sprang, was Christianity.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 6:06pm
Steve

PhilBest,

“liberal” leftism, multiculturalism, etc; generally involves people being able to feel superior and good about themselves in any situation without having to bother their heads about morally assessing messy real world situations.

You mean those warm fuzzy out of touch people who just love to spend taxpayers’ money?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 6:12pm
Put it away

I posted on The Standard about their hypocrisy in banning Whaleoil for being “lying and technically incompetent” ( their words) on the very post which was a technically incompetent lie from The Standard about DPF.. now my comments on The Standard have to “await moderation” LOL
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 6:16pm
Zapper

Oh my, I owe everything I have to christianity???

What pisses me off is when I hear about what heroes these guys were, thanks to their Christian beliefs. I find that extremely offensive. They are heroes fullstop. You do not need to be raised believing in the hypocritical bible to be a hero. The fact that the New Zealanders of the year were christians is irrelevant. The fact that they were heroes is not.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 6:27pm
PhilBest

Steve, you mean those warm fuzzy out of touch people who also like to feel good about what the political movement they support, spends other people’s money on?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 6:28pm
grumpyoldhori

PhilBest, genital mutilation, oh you mean the Jewish faith whacking the end of the old boy off.
Amusing in a grim sense how the SS wearing belts with GOD is with us printed on them believed they were doing good Christian work in gassing all those people.
Even more grimly amusing how the Catholic church hide and protected those SS types.

Such as wasteful mob the Christians, what is the point of grilling some bugger at the stake unless one is having him for lunch.
Threatened by religious types, heh, not while I have a couple of 50 Kg German Shepherds I am not.
Surprising how fast Satan and Triple Six are when they believe a early lunch may be on offer 🙂
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 6:46pm
dad4justice

I thought you ate dogs hori – that’s what made you old and grumpy.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 7:14pm
expat

G.O.H said >>Surprising how fast Satan and Triple Six are when they believe a early lunch may be on offer

Honey, unleash the hounds, we have an infestation of christians.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 7:34pm
Adolf Fiinkensein

Grumpyold hori, like most anti Christian zealots, you are a fuckwit. The motto to which you refer was that of the ordinary troops in the Wehrmacht. The motto of the Waffen SS was Meine Ehre heißt Treue (“My honor is loyalty”).
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 7:57pm
expat

Erm, and you know alot about the Waffen SS, interesting.

And in other news, Gummint cancels rediculous Buy NZ Made campaign, I take it that is the one with Oliver ‘Commie’ Driver in it.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10546825
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 8:09pm
Johnboy

Sorry Phil you just can’t get a bite from me on the religious front. I gave it all away when the school chaplain, the Rev Doctor Pirie brained me with a 1000 page physics text book for talking in class. He did not believe in freedom of speech obviously. That was 41 years ago and I have not given a toss about religion or the nutters who espouse it since. If you fit in the last category go away. 😀

GOH I have a 60kg bull mastiff X called Sam (self appointed manager) he is really good at getting rid of the Jehovahs and Mormons for me and only eats me out of house and home for his services. Good value really. 😀
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 8:15pm
Johnboy

Fuck these are really neat 😀 😀
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 8:16pm
Johnboy

“Green Party MP Sue Bradford has questioned the decision and claimed the campaign resulted in an increase in the number of people supporting local products.”

Must be the right decision then expat.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 8:22pm
Nomestradamus

Lee C asks (first comment on this thread):

Did Cullen lie to the New Zealand public – is this an offence under the Finance Act?

This from the NZ Herald today (as this is a general thread, I’ll quote liberally):

Official documents indicate former finance minister Michael Cullen would have been briefed about the billion-dollar blowout at ACC long before the cut-off point for inclusion in the pre-election “opening of the books”. The absence of the blowout from the Pre-Election Economic and Fiscal Update (Prefu) has National accusing Labour of deliberately trying to hide the sum to make the Government accounts look better than they were.

Papers seen by the Herald show Treasury officials were aware of the estimated shortfall in the non-earners account shortly before August 22 and would be “updating the Minister of Finance”.

The Prefu was closed off on September 24 [considerably after August 22], with Dr Cullen and Treasury Secretary John Whitehead signing a joint statement of responsibility that all economic and fiscal implications of Government decisions were included.

The blowout took the new National Government by surprise, and Prime Minister John Key has ordered a ministerial inquiry into why the “significant and serious hole” was not included in the Prefu.

Dr Cullen, who signed to having “responsibility for overall integrity of the disclosures”, refused to comment yesterday when asked why the ACC shortfall was not included in the Prefu as a “specific fiscal risk”. “I’m the Treaty negotiations spokesman,” Dr Cullen said. “I have no intention of re-engaging in those areas.” [And there you have it: Dr Cullen is on record as treating the public with utter contempt]

Finance Minister Bill English, who is in charge of the ministerial inquiry, said there was an “expectation” that Dr Cullen and others involved would co-operate fully.

The Prefu is required by the Public Finance Act. Offences under the act can carry a penalty of up to a year in prison or a fine of up to $5000 for individuals, or a fine of $15,000 for organisations.

The Prefu’s “specific fiscal risks” section contained several potential risks, such as cost overruns in the construction of the Supreme Court.

Risks must be included if they are of “reasonable certainty”, going to have an impact of $10 million or more in a year, and if they are under “active consideration” by the Minister of Finance and responsible ministers (such as being subject to a written report).

A Treasury spokeswoman said the ACC shortfall was not included as it was not deemed to be under active consideration.

She would not comment on whether officials informed Dr Cullen as the official papers said was intended. She said the Treasury would not comment further because of the ministerial inquiry.

Former ACC minister Maryan Street, who received her first official advice of the shortfall on August 14, said the Treasury was closely involved and Dr Cullen would have got a “heads-up” from officials.

Ms Street provided the official papers to the Herald, including the August 14 report from ACC that detailed an estimated shortfall of over $900 million over the next three years. The figures were actually estimated out for five years, taking the shortfall to $1.5 billion.

Ms Street said Treasury, ACC and the Department of Labour were all recommending that no decision be made until after the election.

She said that, like her, Dr Cullen was relying on the early estimates, which were not “good figures” and he would have been waiting until she officially wrote to him on October 22 when the figures had been checked out properly.

On the face of it, this looks absolutely damning and measures up to Helen Clark’s definition of a “prima facie” case.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 9:11pm
kiwipolemicist

PhilBest says “clearly our contemporary culture is indeed more “anti-Christian”, full stop, than it is multiculturally tolerant.”

This is very true. For background info see:

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/the-motives-of-the-liberal-left/

With all the 😀 I’m starting think that JohnBoy has been smoking something.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 9:17pm
paradigm

Hori, I am pretty sure philbest is referring to “female genital mutilation”, a practice where large areas of the female reproductive organs including the clitoris are removed. In terms of scale it cannot be considered anything anything near male circumcision and is a specific offense in the crimes act (with a maximum jail term of 7 years).
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 9:53pm
Rex Widerstrom

[from Nomestradamus’s comment above]:

Dr Cullen, who signed to having “responsibility for overall integrity of the disclosures”, refused to comment yesterday when asked why the ACC shortfall was not included in the Prefu as a “specific fiscal risk”. “I’m the Treaty negotiations spokesman,” Dr Cullen said. “I have no intention of re-engaging in those areas.

Meanwhile in other news, the new Iraqi government has retrospectively pardoned Saddam Hussein. “Sure, he might have destroyed the country,” a spokesman said today, “but when we found him, he was merely an old man hiding in a hole in the ground. It was wrong of us to expect him to retrospectively engage on trifling issues like mere genocide. After all, every day is the first day of your new life. Or something like that”.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 6, 2008 9:58pm
expat

Fran O’Sullivan: Pussyfooting around privatisation ::: NZ Herald – Local Gummint Reform

Fran O’Sullivan assesses the case for releasing SOE shares onto the NZX main board and into the governance of Adrian Orrs team, which must also mean a ‘kiwi share’ offering to Joe Public I would have thought, but no mention of that!

The lead in theme is Wellington CC’s attempt to flog Wellington Airport shares to allow them to ‘pay down debt’ or ‘reduce rate increases’ or release capital from ‘mature investments’ to allow ‘investment in needed infrastructure’.

Fran notes that WCC won’t be the first down this route, or has WCC been living on the HP never never for too long?.

Whats disturbing though is the argument from Prendergast that the Gummint or Kiwisaver should buy shares from local government to allow this capital release and inject cash flow into the local gummint coffers. This would indicate, surely, that local gummint in the windy city is nearing its banking covenants and needs to flog some silver to avoid the nasty letters from credit control.

It would seem rates are going up just when the rate payer needs that like a kick in the guts.

If ever there was a red flag that NZ’s local government structure needs review and improvement this is it!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501241&objectid=10546216&pnum=0
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 7, 2008 1:29am
goodgod

Matt McCarten is crying about the death of socialism. Again.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10546860

His one eyed view of “working people” is so complete he doesn’t even view them as human anymore. They’re a breed of healthy, honest, hardworking, blameless gods. Then with an ever present socialist sneer, he is outraged that non-union workers wil get the benefits of union workers. Blind to his hypocrisy, he says hard working workers everywhere must first engage in a profit making exercise with a local union official before they get what is due. Much like they already do with employers – though union officials often do not return any benefits.
Employers, of course, are all evil. They suffer no losses, and make no attempts to fix staffing solutions. And while “exposing” the 90 day probation bill as pure profteering evil, he of course lies when he tells us there is already a 90 day probation period just as good. Except it has to be done the socialist way, with union officials, courts and money.

Sorry, Matt, it’s over. Cry all you like. Lie all you like. The people are onto you and your fellow scamsters
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 7, 2008 7:55am
Turpin

JohnBoy
Sorry Phil you just can’t get a bite from me on the religious front. I gave it all away when the school chaplain, the Rev Doctor Pirie brained me with a 1000 page physics text book for talking in class. He did not believe in freedom of speech obviously. That was 41 years ago and I have not given a toss about religion or the nutters who espouse it since.

You made a life decision that has guided you in your thinking based on a kid getting whacked on the Head once?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
December 7, 2008 10:23pm

Add a Comment Cancel reply

Login to comment or vote

« 2008 Election Results Analysis

General Debate 7 December 2008 »

Donations

You can now donate to Kiwiblog

Exclusive content from DPF on Patreon

Become a Patron!

Never miss a post

Email Address

Join 13K other subscribers

Highlights

Target achieved II
Good progress on attendance
Health Target 5 – elective treatments
Health Target 4 – Specialist appointments

Top Stories

General Debate 23 June 2026
General Debate 24 June 2026
The Greens $800 million blunder
Meet the Greens - Animal Welfare Policy
Regulators are not soverign entities
Be careful what you ask for with IMSB
Predictable gaming
Not sure about this one
The tobacco black market in NZ in 2025
General Debate 22 June 2026

Recent Posts

The tobacco black market in NZ in 2025 24 June 2026
Predictable gaming 24 June 2026
General Debate 24 June 2026 24 June 2026
Meet the Greens – Animal Welfare Policy 24 June 2026
Be careful what you ask for with IMSB 23 June 2026
Regulators are not soverign entities 23 June 2026
General Debate 23 June 2026 23 June 2026
The Greens $800 million blunder 23 June 2026
Not sure about this one 22 June 2026
Don’t defend the indefensible 22 June 2026
General Debate 22 June 2026 22 June 2026
Finally common sense wins at WCC 22 June 2026

Recent Comments

General Debate 24 June 2026
Ghost
The tobacco black market in NZ in 2025
Ian Boag
General Debate 24 June 2026
Ghost
General Debate 24 June 2026
Maggy Wassilieff
General Debate 24 June 2026
Charlotte Wells
The tobacco black market in NZ in 2025
David Garrett
General Debate 24 June 2026
Charlotte Wells
General Debate 24 June 2026
mike
General Debate 24 June 2026
Charlotte Wells
General Debate 24 June 2026
Charlotte Wells
General Debate 24 June 2026
Graeme Hall
General Debate 24 June 2026
mike
General Debate 24 June 2026
mike
General Debate 24 June 2026
NothingLeft
General Debate 24 June 2026
NothingLeft

Links

Alan Greenspan, 1926-2026: 'The Undertaker' passes away
Not PC
John Raine: Canary in a Climate World - When Political and Media Narratives Depart from Scientific Evidence
Breaking Views
Word of the day
Hompaddock
Free Speech is in Trouble in Europe
No Minister
The mistakes that sealed Keir Starmer’s fate
Point of Order
Keir Starmer’s fate vs Chippy’s Green Party refusal – a warning to Labour
The Daily Blog
Open Mike 24/06/2026
The Standard
NRL Predictions for Round 17
Stats Chat
The Partition: Ireland Divided 1885 to 1925 by Charles Townshend (2021)
Utopia
Time to tax the rich
No Right Turn
Media Link: “A View from Afar” on Systemic Change.
Kiwipolitico
Alex Berenson on Fatherhood Manifesto, Marijuana & Biden’s COVID
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
People Power
NZCPR
Levies as end-runs around the Generic Tax Policy Process
Offsetting Behaviour
A central banker’s fiction
Croaking Cassandra
THE WORKING FROM HOME RACKET BY PUBLIC SERVANTS
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Get Vaccinated Tomorrow Or Shut Your Pie Hole
Cactus Kate
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker

[email protected]

PO Box 12270, Thorndon, Wellington 6144

Facebook
Twitter
FourSquare
Instagram
LinkedIn
Google+

© 2003-2026 David Farrar

Archives
Disclosure Statement
Editorial Policy
Privacy Policy
Complaints Policy
Comments Policy

Design by cre8d

%d