General Debate 23 April 2009

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mickysavage

Interesting discussion this morning on Morning Report. Sean Plunkett said to Bill English that National were “fibbers” and that they “lied to the electorate” now that they are backing away from the promised tax cuts.

This will make many, many people wonder why they voted National.

Yet another broken promise …
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April 23, 2009 8:01am
bobux

So let me get this straight, mickey.

Under the current and projected future deficits, you think National SHOULD continue with its tax cut programme? Is this a policy you would advocate if Labour were in power?

Lets find out what economic policies you actually believe in, rather than simply being opposed to whatever National suggests.
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April 23, 2009 8:09am
Murray

Another fucking socialist telling us what we think.

In fact mickey what I am thinking is that labour so royally screwed our economy that they were bloody lucky to just get their asses fired and several of them should in fact be facing criminal action for their lying and deliberate concealment of the nations financial situation.

Phil In grandstanding that National are lying because the public service that was bloated by labour has to down size is just another example of the total disconetection that labour has with the electorate. Private business should comepete but the public service should remain a sheltered workshop? I don’t think so.

Labour of the last decade remains the most corrupt and dishonest party and having total fucked out country then trying to dump it all on the newly elected National government is beyond mind numbingly stupid. You fucked it, they’re fixing, hush now, gown ups talking.
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April 23, 2009 8:12am
Inventory2

So let me get this straight micky – you’d rather National bankrupted us in an honourable way so as to keep their word that act responsibly with our finances?

I hate to be abusive this early in the day, but you are a dork! And when is Sean Plunket going to get Phil Goff on and ask him about the kiore mate nui (big, dead rat) that Labour has swallowed over the Seabed and Foreshore Act.

Sorry, you can’t have it both ways 🙂
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April 23, 2009 8:14am
dad4justice

“Yet another broken promise …”

National might break the odd promise or two, however unlike Miss Klark they didn’t fly away on a broomstick and leave a broken Nation silly mickeysavagenitwit.
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April 23, 2009 8:15am
mickysavage

bobux & Co

“Under the current and projected future deficits, you think National SHOULD continue with its tax cut programme? Is this a policy you would advocate if Labour were in power?”

No I thought there should be a more modest tax cut for low to middle income earners to stimulate the economy.

I always knew that National were promising the moon with no ability to fulfill the promise.

I advocate that National does not tell lies or make promises that it has no chance of keeping.
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April 23, 2009 8:17am
Murray

I think you’re just plain full of shit mickey.
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April 23, 2009 8:22am
Inventory2

micky – your hero Cullen KNEW when he presented the Budget last year that the cupboard was bare, yet he still proceeded with the purchase of Kiwirail, with his OWN tax-cuts etc etc – and Phil Goff’s comments at the time, viewed with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight made it clear that Labour knew it was going to lose the election, and wanted to sabotage the economy as much as it could. Read the second link on the post below

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/04/thanks-dr-cullen.html

The only reason that National cannot keep ALL of its promises (you ignore the fact that National has already enacted many of them) is that Labour and Cullen played a spiteful and gutless game with OUR economy – yes, OURS, not THEIRS.
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April 23, 2009 8:24am
Inventory2

mickysavage – here’s what Audrey Young said about Goff on 22 May LAST YEAR:

“Phil Goff’s revealing comments this week showed that Labour is into legacy politics and this is a legacy Budget – a legacy to National. It will make it harder for National to win and if it does win, it will make it harder to govern.”

Do you still want to debate honour?
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April 23, 2009 8:28am
chfr

Having a look at the latest budget in the UK makes me realise how close to the bullet we came. Talk about an envy tax, effectively 60% on those earning over 150 000.

I do wonder what any business the Mickey’s of this world would own would look like? I am afraid economic reality and the Savages of this world are very distant cousins.
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April 23, 2009 8:40am
mattyroo

After that politically correct nonsense on TV3 this morning about the golliwogs….

I’m off out to buy every kid at the local school a little black doll today!
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April 23, 2009 8:45am
goodgod

The only reason that National cannot keep ALL of its promises (you ignore the fact that National has already enacted many of them) is that Labour and Cullen played a spiteful and gutless game with OUR economy – yes, OURS, not THEIRS.

no the reason is because NZders are mainly economically illiterate, polticians like it that way, and that National are too scared to do anything that will lose them the next election – even if that means screwing the country just as badly as Labour. The twist this time is that there is no updated version of Roger Douglas hiding within Labour to begin to create a prosperous period for Labour to waste. National are giving Labour everything they need to move further left once in power.
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April 23, 2009 8:45am
dime

Mickey, like the majority of the left, I dont think you understand how right wingers think when it comes to economics.

yes, we have been screaming for tax cuts for the last 9 years, but rightly so!

however, we also understand that to hand out tax cuts now would fuck our country, so the best thing to do is stop them. we are not all greedy people, we just like a fair government. a government that rewards success.

simple shit really!
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April 23, 2009 9:06am
davidp

Joris de Bres must be sacked after attending the UN Antisemitism Conference, in opposition to the foreign policy of his employer. If he isn’t sacked, then the Human Rights Commission must be disestablished immediately.

It is 2009 FFS… NZ doesn’t need a Race Relations Conciliator. And we certainly don’t need one who attends the modern equivalent of the Nuremberg Rallies.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10567854
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April 23, 2009 9:07am
dime

its a shame they cant drop the intrest free student loan crap too. i have a student loan and its freakin embarrassing that im getting a break at everyone elses expense.
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April 23, 2009 9:07am
Redbaiter

Did that lowlife de Bres join the walkout, or did he sit there lapping up the hate and propaganda like all the other numb brained Progressives??

Fire his useless arse Mr. McCully.

Get that scumbag out of our lives forever.
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April 23, 2009 9:14am
Piggy

How’s the studying going Murray? Bit hypocritical of you to be talking of dole bludgers and socialists isn’t it mate?
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April 23, 2009 9:30am
KiwiGreg

There is just so much wrong with this story

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2356195/Coached-teenage-rapist-to-be-freed

including how and why a guy with 17 pages of convictions is out on the street, let alone taking in foster kids.
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April 23, 2009 9:30am
bobux

mickey

You seem confused about the difference between the tax and welfare systems.

It isn’t easy to give a tax cut only to low and middle income earners. If you lower the tax rate on, say, the first $14,000 of income to, for example, 12.5%, EVERYONE pays only that rate on their first $14,000. That means those nasty rich people benefit from it too. By a striking coincidence, National did actually make this change in the previous round of cuts, and you don’t seem very happy about it.

It’s especially difficult to selectively help out poor people via tinkering with tax when the entire income of the poorest segment of kiwis is derived from tax taken from higher income earners. Boosting their incomes vs the rest of the population is welfare, not matter how much you try to dress it up as a tax credit.

It is possible to make a case that increased income transfers are a good thing, but it is dishonest to pretend this can be done solely, or even primarily, through the tax system.
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April 23, 2009 9:55am
gazzmaniac

So Solid Energy have finally evicted the protesters from their mine expansion at Stockton. About time if you ask me.
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April 23, 2009 9:55am
thedavincimode

Don’t be too hard on micky who is just trying to wind you up and thinks that the world has stood still since the industrial revolution and consequently couldn’t possibly have changed in the last six months.

This baseless bitching that has gained such momentum in the last few weeks is the last gasp rear guard action of the socialist bigots who live in denial of the appalling standards of behaviour of their government as it sucked the life blood from this country over the last 9 years and reduced public expectations of politicians to an unprecented lowpoint. So they troll this site trying to reinvent history and divert attention from that reality. They can’t stand that Key is so popular. They despise him as a matter of principle just because he’s got a few bob and didn’t sit on his arse in the ‘varsity common room with them espousing some weary old pinko dogma whilst they studied political history and nothing useful.

The great irony is that their grubby little regime has reduced the general populace to a point where it just doesn’t listen anymore. That’s why their sad little campaign won’t work. They’ll realise that eventually and move to Iran to become holocaust deniers.

Now, the 3 -ve karmas please. That’s right. Oh, you’re SO clever! Have another latte and pass another revolution.
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April 23, 2009 10:00am
Jack5

PC correctness continues in the NZ Herald.

On the Herald web site today, as it catches up on the South Island-North Island name debate issue, the Herald names one of the board members “Dr Sir Tipene O’Regan”.

Naming the Ngai Tahu leader this way is unusual to the point of being over the top. If O’Regan were a Major-General or a Chief Justice you might lead off the description with their titles, but for an honorary university degree? Who else uses an honorary Ph.D. as part of his or her title?
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April 23, 2009 10:34am
NOt1tocommentoften

Jack5 – why is this PC correct? I’m interested in your views as this label seems to be pulled out a lot. It may be that this is unusual practice – but I’m not sure why it’s “PC”. In fact I’m not sure what that PC means to be honest.
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April 23, 2009 10:50am
Hagues

Former Prime Minister Helen Clark has been awarded an honorary doctorate.
The degree, from the University of Auckland, is a Doctor of Laws.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10568170

FFS shouldn’t that be Doctor of breaking Laws, or retrospectively changing them to suit yourself?
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April 23, 2009 10:55am
Ryan Sproull

Hagues,

Maybe you read it wrong. Maybe it’s doctoring laws.
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April 23, 2009 10:56am
Hagues

Haha yes Ryan I knew there would be a simple explanation.
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April 23, 2009 10:58am
Murray

Piggy you’re a fuckwit. I made no mention of any such “bludgers” and what makes you think that university has anything to do with socialism?

And to asnwer your question I delivered my first tutorial last Thursday. Ooo look out I’m corupting young minds!

Here’s big hint for you, people (always socialsts for some reason) who try and put words in my mouth ehre come off very second best. But just like a commie to try and hold people back.
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April 23, 2009 11:00am
philu

muzza..

..do you lie awake at night..

..wondering if there is a dog..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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April 23, 2009 12:21pm
philu

“..Here’s big hint for you, people (always socialsts for some reason) who try and put words in my mouth ehre come off very second best..”

oh..really..!

(heh..!.)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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April 23, 2009 12:28pm
Murray

The dribbling buffoon croaks.

I have dyslexia, you’re a fucked up drug addict. Spot the difference.
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April 23, 2009 12:45pm
Inventory2

Hagues said “FFS shouldn’t that be Doctor of breaking Laws, or retrospectively changing them to suit yourself?”

The very same thought I had Hagues

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/04/what.html
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April 23, 2009 1:19pm
thedavincimode

Bobux

That is the point and one of the reasons they why they like tax credits. Tax credits = no transparency = no accountability. Welfare payments offer far greater transparency and therefore, invite greater scrutiny. After all, why should taxpayers have any right to see how that money is spent? Heavens above, before you know it they’ll be asking silly questions like: whether it was justified, what the criteria are, and how much of it actually got to the frontline as opposed to disappearing on some pledgecard, a departmental huggamuggafest with breakout sessions and teambuilding, or some nasal saline inhalation forum organised by the macrame and one-armed potters society for the promotion of taxpayer subsidised junk that has no artistic merit or commercial value.

Another reason, central to the dogma, is that tax isn’t a mechanism to fund government expenditure (I know, that’s a pretty weird concept), but is in fact a means TO REDISTRIBUTE INCOME. After all, we are all meant to be the same.

Bobux, unfortunately you suffer from the same lack of understanding as many others. You see, if you can earn more, then you have a MORAL AND SOCIAL OBLIGATION to get out and do it in order to contribute your fair share to the just and fair society. The redistribution that follows isn’t welfare, social assistance, a leg up, helping those who try to help themselves but can’t quite make it for whatever reason, or whatever the nasty rich babyeaters might call it. It is in fact the receipt of a SOCIAL ENTITLEMENT as of right. I am born therefore I deserve. I earn less; you give me money. Effort, skill, experience and circumstances are irrelevant.

We can’t all be captains of commerce, or be parents working on a 24 hour shift rotation. Micky – van Wharthog – greenflea et al, would of course love to be part of that scene. But unfortunately for them, but lucky for us, they’ve been BURDENED with a SOCIAL CONSCIENCE and a special insight into what’s good for us and how we should live our lives. Cursed with this burden, they must theorise on the great social eutopia into the small hours of the morning, network with their important intergalactic and likeminded colleagues, write papers about really serious and important stuff that only they understand, reconcile themselves to their great sacrifice when passed over for promotion in their unions, universities or government departments, and fill in the days by bringing the babyeaters (sorry bobux, that would be you) to heel. In fact, some of them are so excessively burdened by the importance of this work that they don’t have time for paid employment at all. They would if they could – I mean boy, how they envy those lucky parents doing the factory shift/night cleaning routine – but their work as consciences of society is just far too important.

Does this clarify matters for you?
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April 23, 2009 1:33pm
philu

what was the tutorial on..?

..’relying on ad hominems:..the struggles of a rightwinger..

..in a world that dosen’t care..’..?

phil(whoar.co.z)
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April 23, 2009 1:57pm
philu

or..

..’cudgels and leggings:

..war/fantasy-games:..

..how a rightwinger ‘gets by’/’copes’..’..?

phil(whoar.co.nz).
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April 23, 2009 2:01pm
philu

or..

“..how i learned to love dan rand:..

..the confessions of a rightwing dyslexic..’..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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April 23, 2009 2:03pm
Brian Smaller

or..
“..! I thought ..

:;;….you were… ‘banned~~“

Philu..>…
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April 23, 2009 2:20pm
philu

“..people (always socialsts for some reason) who try and put words in my mouth ehre come off very second best..”

c’mon muzza..!

walk the walk..!

eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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April 23, 2009 2:41pm
thedavincimode

Philu seems to have given himself a big pep talk this morning.

“Mirror mirror on the wall. I am a very valuable member of society and even though I would love to work, I can’t because I have to save the world from the filthy rich and babyeaters. This is my sacrifice. I would much rather be out there with a job, but that is my sacrifice for our society. I am entitled to be paid by society to do this. It is my right because I was born. My life got a bit fucked up but it wasn’t my fault. I am a wonderful role model as a father. I am so committed to this life of sacrifice that tomorrow I might even try writing some sentences.”
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April 23, 2009 3:14pm
Pat

According to “Jarbury” a Green party member at Mt Albert, they received an email notification this morning that Russell Norman is standing in Mt Albert.

http://www.thestandard.org.nz/gary-shearer/#comment-129333
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April 23, 2009 3:20pm
Redbaiter

Ure, you need to knock off the preaching.

You were an amoral coward when you used violence to steal from that chemist shop, and you’re the same amoral coward now sitting on your worthless bludging arse taking money from NZ’s productive sector while you tell them what they should do.
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April 23, 2009 3:26pm
Angus

“You were an amoral coward when you used violence to steal from that chemist shop”

Did he really?
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April 23, 2009 3:33pm
dad4justice

You are not worth the demerits phool !@!
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April 23, 2009 3:47pm
Redbaiter

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2008/09/colin_sums_up_labours_attack.html#comment-487196
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April 23, 2009 3:48pm
Angus

So he did RB,

http://sirhumphreys.blogspot.com/2005/04/phul.html

“My name is Phillip Ure; I am an ex junkie (15 yrs clean of junk; still use pot), ex-con (armed robbery of chemist shop whilst going through smack withdrawels), vegan, DPB-supported sole dad (thanks), environmental/animal rights activist/supporter”
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April 23, 2009 3:54pm
Murray

A practical interpretation of the Itinerarium Peregrinorum et Gesta Regis Ricardi in relation to the siege of Acre phool.

Thanks for asking.

I’m sorry if I haven’t spent the entire day pointing out for the last person on earth to know that you’re a blihtering idiot but I’ve been in class. Some of us don’t actually spend the entire day getting stoned on the tax papyers dime and trolling sites that have traffic.
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April 23, 2009 5:40pm
Banana Llama

should lay of the dope Philu, it clouds the mind and limits your ability to provide for yourself, if you do that you will find holding down a job becomes much easier.
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April 23, 2009 5:47pm
Tauhei Notts

Davidp at 9.07 a.m.
Yes, we all agree that the slimeball De Bres should be sacked.
But, hang on. Those leftwing bludgers are so cunning that they make shithouse rats look naive.
I’ll wager big dough that they have it sorted out that if the slimeball gets sacked the taxpayer will have to come up with an extortionate payout.
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April 23, 2009 9:34pm
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Here is a news story that is good for a laugh:
Gay marriage row at Miss USA show

It’s PC gone mad I say.
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April 23, 2009 9:57pm
Jack5

NOt1tocommentoften posted at 10.53am on 23 April:”…’m not sure what that PC means…”

Here’s the Wikipedia definition: Political correctness (adjectivally, politically correct; both forms commonly abbreviated to PC) is a term applied to language, ideas, policies, or behavior seen as seeking to minimize offense to gender, racial, cultural, disabled, aged or other identity groups.

I would extend PC to cover fawning behaviour that seeks to cultivate favour with gender, racial, cultural, disabled, aged or other identity groups and/or to be seen in a favourable light by those who fawn on these groups or fear being regarded by these groups as “politically incorrect”.

The NZ Herald regularly displays such PC behaviour to ethnic minorities.
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April 24, 2009 12:30am

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