General Debate 07 November 2010

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Grant Michael McKenna

Today is the anniversary of the storming of the Winter Palace, the start of the October Revolution, and 90 million dead.
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November 7, 2010 8:59am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

How about those All Blacks? Top stuff.
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November 7, 2010 9:02am
Pete George

And how about a bit of application and fight from the Black Caps. Ryder returns, Williamson off to a great debut.
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November 7, 2010 9:05am
pdm

How about the outstanding passing of Mathewson.
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November 7, 2010 9:07am
Offshore_Kiwi

So, thanks to the Coastal Coalition and the OIA, our hopelessly corrupted Attorney General has been forced to release the submissions on the amended Foreshore & Seabed Act. We now know the vast majority oppose the new Bill, or at least oppose it in its current form.

Anyone taking bets on how long it will be before the Bill is withdrawn, or do we think neville key will continue his policy of ignoring the majority of his employers in favour of appeasing a radical and racist minority?
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November 7, 2010 9:10am
flipper

The HonS bannering McCartern’s crap about American voters simply illustrates how ignorant he is and also how much the subs in the HonS are out of touch.
McCarten’s comments are reminiscent of Peter Jennings infamous “American voters yesterday threw their toys out of the cot” when the Demos took a bath (from Luke Ghing…) that was somewhat less then that of this past week.
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November 7, 2010 9:21am
Inventory2

Agreed Flipper; if you don’t agree with McCarten, you’re stupid; that is what he is essentially saying. That seems to be a very strange tactic for a bloke going to the polls in less than two weeks’ time.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/11/sunday-quote-matt-mccarten-special.html
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November 7, 2010 9:23am
Manolo

“Probably not since the days of the Pharaohs or the more ludicrous Roman Emperors has a head of state travelled in such pomp and expensive grandeur as the President of the United States of America.”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1326962/Obamas-India-visit-security-erect-bomb-proof-tunnel-Gandhi-museum.html
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November 7, 2010 9:55am
Manolo

Worth a laugh.
The wowsers questioning the spineless: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10685860
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November 7, 2010 10:01am
reid

“…do we think neville key will continue his policy of ignoring the majority of his employers in favour of appeasing a radical and racist minority.”

What would you like him to do? If he withdraws the bill the MP walk away and won’t consider NACT at all ever again. The right in this country don’t have the numbers because its historical support base were the farmers and as the cities have grown that base has shrunk by proportion. In cities it’s easier for lefties to spread their poison. That’s what’s happened. Almost all the reef fish live in the cities. That’s why Auckland decides the country. So given all this it’s impossible for the conservatives to consistently get the numbers. It has to either keep solid with large rumps of lefties like the MP, or be in opposition for its entire life.
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November 7, 2010 10:10am
Offshore_Kiwi

Reid, better to be in opposition than sell your employers out to this bunch of racist separatist terrorists.

The Nats agreed to review the F&S Act. They said if there was not widespread support for change, they wouldn’t change. The MP have said they see this as nothing more than the start. They have clearly signalled their intentions.

There is not widespread support for change, even among the apartheid party.

They would do better to support the right (or, at worst, the centre) than setting the country on this racist divisive destructive path.
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November 7, 2010 10:15am
Manolo

According to the Coastal Coalition: “By using the Official Information Act, the Attorney General has released the submissions on the Review of the 2004 Foreshore and Seabed Act . We now know why he had suppressed the information for almost six months: 77 percent of submitters were opposed the repeal of the present Act and an astonishing 91 percent opposed National’s proposed Bill.”

The above figures speak for themselves. Key and Labour-lite are selling the country to the racists.
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November 7, 2010 10:18am
Pete George

I’ve been quiet here in the last couple of weeks due to real life taking over, having to deal with two major family events – one ending in death, one starting with death.

My mother died a week ago today, it was final relief for her (and family) after suffering from cancer for the last six months. She spent her last two weeks in the Hospice in Dunedin, a superb facility with fantastically dedicated and helpful staff. I and other family members virtually lived with her there in her last week, so I have had first hand experience of the pros and cons of various forms of assisted death. The Hospice did it by the book, making comfort within the law a priority.

Several months ago my mother said she wanted to maintain quality of life at home as long as possible, and then to go very quickly. She almost achieved that. There are many contradictions. She wanted company but didn’t want to be seen in a bad state. She wanted to go quickly but enjoyed a brief reprieve. She wanted to die but didn’t want to die.

She deteriorated very quickly over most of her last seven days. I’m fairly sure if she could have chosen she would have skipped that week. But on Wednesday she bounced back a little, and was able to say goodbye to quite a few visitors for the last time – or more accurately, they said goodbye to her. She had a ready smile for all, but would have hated to have known had bad she looked.

For the next three days she suffered until she died, we can look for and try and paint some positives but really it was very difficult, very sad to see. But that’s the way our society insists it happens.
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November 7, 2010 10:28am
Manolo

PG, please accept my condolences.
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November 7, 2010 10:36am
kaya

Pete – my condolences, I watched both my parents die from cancer. My mother was text book and peaceful, my father was 5 days of hell for all concerned. As you say, it is how our society deems it to be but at times it is wrong.
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November 7, 2010 10:49am
Manolo

The U.K’s emasculation is complete. Paralised by political correctness the once-proud empire has surrendered: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1327034/Army-cadets-banned-carrying-rifles-Remembrance-Day-parade-glamourises-weapons.html#ixzz14VriSzM3
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November 7, 2010 10:52am
Pete George

Thanks Manolo, Kaya. Condolences are appreciated, but my intent bringing it up is it is a contentious issue, and it’s obviously fresh on my mind.

I have generally been in favour of euthanasia, if controlled carefully. But, at risk of again being accused of being a fuddled fence sitter, it’s far from simple, with so many variables in each situation. I need time to think things through further, and have only experienced two relatively straight forward cases (my father ten years ago was the other) but at this stage I’d definitely choose to err towards a careful, safe approach, very similar to what we do now. But….my mother would have chosen to go a week earlier if she could.
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November 7, 2010 10:52am
reid

Pete, my condolences too. I agree with your point. I honestly think that opposition to euthanasia under the right conditions is limited to a very few people in key positions, but is no wider than that. I think most of us don’t believe, as they do, that the very fact one is no longer interested in living, doesn’t necessarily mean as they think it does, that you therefore don’t have a sound mind and aren’t capable of properly deciding.

Given we have totally painless technology used many times a year in the US to execute prisoners via lethal injection, it’s not only wrong it’s also in my view, cruel to deny one the opportunity to access it, in the right circumstances. Of course the right circumstances is the critical point and your mother’s case is an example of one of them, in my view.

“Reid, better to be in opposition than sell your employers out to this bunch of racist separatist terrorists.”

Offshore Kiwi, I point out this is precisely the naive frankly mental position the Greens adopted when they ruled a coalition with NACT prior to the election. Are you seriously suggesting conservatives should be as mental as they are?

Secondly, if the MP really were a bunch of racist separatist terrorists I’d possibly agree we shouldn’t deal with that particular party, but they’re not. Perhaps you’ve been offshore for quite some time and don’t realise that actually, most Maori are pragmatic realists. Yes they have a problem with what happened and its being dealt with, in various ways, this bill being one of them.
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November 7, 2010 11:03am
hj

The summary of submissions shows that there is clearly no public support for the law change, so the prime Minister should honour his commitment to the New Zealand public and withdraw the Bill”, Dr Barr said. The Summary of Submissions can be found at:

http://www.justice.govt.nz/policy-and-consultation/foreshore-and-seabed/reviewing-the-foreshore-and-seabed-act-2004/documents/Summary%20of%20Submissions

“insidious can of worms”
“slippery slope”
“very pleased with the sophisticated approach being achieved under the present
mindset”
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November 7, 2010 11:05am
gazzmaniac

@Manolo 10:52
“It’s not good for the image of the cadets” – FFS they are army cadets! Of course they should carry rifles, even if it’s only model ones.
“Some members of the public get upset [with people carrying rifles]” – Then they shouldn’t go and watch the parade.
Dickheads. But sadly it’s getting worse.
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November 7, 2010 11:05am
hj

“wasn’t won in contest” want a war ehh?
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November 7, 2010 11:09am
kaya

Pete – you highlight quite well the difficulty of the issue. The problem is that on the one hand society wants systems and rules that are simple, clear and easy to follow. The reality is that in many instances and in this one in particular, things are not black and white. Who gets to say enough is enough? Who makes that decision? I know with my father I knew 4 days before he died that for all purposes he was gone. He was forced to suffer with indignity, kept alive with tubes and drugs because of our “system”. There are times when it is blatantly obvious to all concerned that the “time” has come.
In such cases the family should be able to consult with the doctor and the option to end the suffering should be available.
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November 7, 2010 11:11am
mawm

My condolences Pete

Reid – if the voting power has moved to the cities, especially Auckland, then surely the Nats should be seeking their voters in those places…and not with disgruntled Maori. There are plenty of Right of centre voters in the suburbs who are politically informed and they are being turned away by National over deals such as the Foreshore.

The Maori Party will always be one disagreement away from supporting National and thus make a bad coalition partner.
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November 7, 2010 11:12am
reid

“Reid – if the voting power has moved to the cities, especially Auckland, then surely the Nats should be seeking their voters in those places…and not with disgruntled Maori. There are plenty of Right of centre voters in the suburbs who are politically informed and they are being turned away by National over deals such as the Foreshore.”

That was point about the reef-fish mawm. If any conservative is turned away by NACT’s coalition with the MP, where are they going to go? So we don’t need to worry about them. What we need to do is to capture the reef-fish a.k.a. swinging voters.

Unfortunately NZ is in fact extremely left of centre. Many reef-fish for example actually do believe the left’s lies about what Rogernomics is all about. They actually do believe that it would have been better for the economy if they weren’t ever implemented. I know they’re factually wrong, but they don’t think they are, and as far as they are concerned, that debates over. That’s what a lot of the people who we need on our side if we want to get elected, actually think.
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November 7, 2010 11:33am
grumpyoldhori

Reid, I do like the argument put forward by to many ACT types that we are far better off than the Aussies because of what Douglas and the short arse did.

Yep, buggered up the union movement which has made NZ workers so much better off than Aussies.

Remember the, there is no alternative, give telecom away for a song, no alternative etc etc etc.
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November 7, 2010 12:11pm
gazzmaniac

grumpyoldhori – Telecom could have remained in government hands, and would still be losing $100 million a year and you’d still be waiting 6 weeks to get your phone connected.
NZ (not me, I was to young to vote then, and I wouldn’t have voted for her anyway) could have not elected Helen Clark and then I reckon pay rates would be a lot closer to Australia and true economic growth would have continued. Except it didn’t happen and now the country is in dire straits, having squandered the best economic conditions in a generation.
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November 7, 2010 12:24pm
Offshore_Kiwi

Reid, you’re right I have been offshore for a while. I left in 2003, before the worst of the corrupt dictatorship’s excesses took hold. I have watched aghast as New Zealand continues its leftwards course, and its downwards slide.

The only thing the Nats need to do, to fix the insidious law the bilious bitch implemented, is to repeal it and place their faith in the Courts. They do not need to introduce corrupting influences such as closed-doors negotiations with politicians, if the Courts do not give claimants what they want. Our current AG has made his career out of negotiating successfuly outcomes for Maori. I have no faith that he is not continuing to do so today.

If key wasn’t a cowardly traitor, he would say 2 things to the MP: (1) we are repealing the bilious bitch’s law, and no more. (2) race-based seats will cease to exist from the next election.

The fact is, New Zealand needs to be cured of its leftism and its addiction to spending other people’s money before we slide right off the bottom of the OECD charts. To do that, we need to stop handing out money to minority groups (the maori aristocracy, welfare bludgers, the massive bureaucracy) to squander.

Grumpy, up to your usual lies, eh? Nobody is claiming kiwis are better off than Aussies. In fact, we are far worse off than Aussies, by any reasonable measure. I think what most rational people say is that if Lange hadn’t turned coward and reined in Douglas, and if Bolger hadn’t gone chicken and stopped Saint Ruth, New Zealand would not be anywhere near as far behind Australia (and the rest of the world, for that matter) than we currently are.
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November 7, 2010 12:25pm
Jimbob

Just watching the AB’s replay against England. You would have to say Rokocoko has played his last test. Quite sad, but he just about made every error possible.
The rugby league boys were way off their game, probably thinking of the final next week.
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November 7, 2010 12:31pm
Pete George

The rugby league boys were way off their game, probably thinking of the final next week.

Probably just as well, it’s hard enough beating the Aussies once in a while, twice in a row would be a huge task.

The AB’s generally made a lot of mistakes but still held out England reasonably comfortably. It won’t hurt them to have a few hard battles. Scrums are a worry though, not sure why they were on the receiving end of most of the referee’s decisions.
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November 7, 2010 1:01pm
Inventory2

@ pete George; please add my condolences to the growing list. The death of someone close brings perspective to all the crap we spout in places like this. Thoughts and prayers are with you and your whanau.
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November 7, 2010 1:21pm
reid

Offshore I personally agree with race-based seats for Maori but for no-one else. This is because Maori were indeed here before us and no-one else has the right to claim that status. This is now everyone’s home not just Maori, but Maori won’t ever get elected without special seats because her population isn’t concentrated anywhere, not even in South Auckland because there, Maori votes can sometimes compete with what the Pacific Islanders want.

Maori also have cultural characteristics which makes them as a race, keen on consultation generally. This is why the MP goes around and does hui’s all the time, asking its members. Who else does that, as often? And this trait of theirs is why this issue is so important to them. A lot of the time if someone wants to do something on Maori land and the appropriate people are consulted from the start and not just presented with a fait accompli, often, Maori are fine. But if you don’t ask them at all and just go ahead and do it, it gets their backs up. Now you can argue whether or not this trait is justifiable or even desirable but it exists. I’m not of course saying we should give them seats because otherwise we’d hurt their feelings, duh. I’m not a fucking moron. What I’m saying is, this is why they want them.

It seems to me from a benevolence point of view and in this context, why the hell not let them have seats both in Parliament and on councils including Auckland? What’s the harm? As I said at the start, this is specifically for them alone, I’m not interested in providing for Asian seats or for any other specific race, and this is because in my view there is a valid differentiating factor which is: they were here first. And they’ll never have a majority, so what’s the harm?

I think what most rational people say is that if Lange hadn’t turned coward and reined in Douglas, and if Bolger hadn’t gone chicken and stopped Saint Ruth, New Zealand would not be anywhere near as far behind Australia (and the rest of the world, for that matter) than we currently are.

That’s exactly what I’m saying anyway Offshore. See Grumpy, there’s this fantasy out there propagated by poisonous evil lefties who constantly use pavlovian phrases such as: “failed policies of the 90’s” to repeatedly drive home to the profoundly useful idiots of whom there are hundred of thousands, that Rogernomics is all about selfishness and greed. They say it all the time to setup subconscious resonance that prevents idiots who listen to it from ever thinking about it rationally.

For when you do think rationally, one sees that this economic framework labelled Rogernomics is actually adopted by every single successful economy in the whole world. Now how can it be wrong if “Rogernomics” is used everywhere, by everyone, except states like North Korea, which is so successful, isn’t it. This is the issue Grumpy. It’s so drop-dead obvious that the evil poisonous lefties have to, literally have to, keep repeating their mantras every 5 mins, lest one of the idiots actually awakes from their self-imposed fantasy.
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November 7, 2010 1:34pm
adze

I agree O/Kiwi. The more I think about the foreshore issue, the more I think the F&S act should be repealed, and not replaced with anything. We should face the possibility that some areas will legally go into Iwi hands with courage, because there really isn’t any justification I can see for not letting Maori discover property rights through the courts.
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November 7, 2010 1:42pm
big bruv

Pete George

My deepest condolences to you and your family.
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November 7, 2010 1:46pm
big bruv

Is anybody really surprised at the way the Rugby league crowd acted last night?

Typical low rent behaviour from a low rent crowd watching a second rate sport.
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November 7, 2010 1:48pm
Offshore_Kiwi

Reid, the bill under discussion at the moment is the very reason for abolishing race-based seats. The MP and their supporters in the corporate iwi will continue to chip away until they own the entire foreshore & seabed. I can’t wait until the day I come home for a holiday and have to pay some iwi a fifty just to go for a walk along Long Bay Beach.

Just because Maori were here before Europeans doesn’t mean they should be afforded special rights in politics, health, education or anywhere else. It isn’t like they could even claim to be New Zealand’s “first people”; they successfully polished them up before Europeans arrived.

One could reasonably argue that multiculturalism (or assimmilation, if you prefer) has been so successful in New Zealand that “maori” as a separate race no longer even exist, except in the minds of those who want to claim to be maori in order to get something.

As MAWM said, the MP is only ever one disagreement away from turning against National. The MP exists only because of race-based seats. Race-based seats and the ridiculous distortions served up by the MMP system guarantee that whichever of the main left parties wants to form government will have to appease them.

To say that without race-based seats Maori would not get adequate (or any) representation is just an outrageous lie. There are so many maori MPs either from general electorates or as list MPs that argument doesn’t even hold cement, let alone water.
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November 7, 2010 1:50pm
Pete George

The death of someone close brings perspective to all the crap we spout in places like this.

Thanks I2, BB – yes, here it’s easy to forget real people and real things are what matter most. My mother was a minimal internet user, and occasional e-mailer. Her quietly determined actions spoke for her. Talking (blogging) is good, doing is ultimately what’s important.

http://cavalcade.co.nz/2010/11/01/a-sad-loss-for-the-cavalcade/#comment-957
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November 7, 2010 2:06pm
reid

“One could reasonably argue that multiculturalism (or assimmilation, if you prefer) has been so successful in New Zealand that “maori” as a separate race no longer even exist, except in the minds of those who want to claim to be maori in order to get something.”

Well apparently Maori think they’re still a separate race. Normally you can make political decisions based on cold hard facts alone but this is one of those which involves subjective factors as well. It’s an ethical question as well as a political one and the reason is because of the history and what happened. To the extent one can put oneself in their place, think of living right here right now under 50 years of Japanese where everything is Japanese, stret signs, TV, books, English is forbidden. How would you feel?

Why is it that some see the overall Maori reaction to this history which did in fact happen, as unreasonable. When I say overall I mean the whole spectrum, from the ones who really are facist like Margaret Motu to the ones who we work with as colleagues on a daily basis and don’t give a shit about it. On that overall spectrum, I think they are reasonable, overall.

“To say that without race-based seats Maori would not get adequate (or any) representation is just an outrageous lie. There are so many maori MPs either from general electorates or as list MPs that argument doesn’t even hold cement, let alone water.”

Count them, Offshore. There aren’t many. Maybe five.
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November 7, 2010 2:07pm
transmogrifier

My condolences to Pete.
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November 7, 2010 2:25pm
nickb

Thoughts are with you and your family Pete.

Oh and BB, what are you talking about?? I did catch a bit of the league, looks like some sort of fight was breaking out in the crowd. Do you have a link to the story?
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November 7, 2010 2:28pm
Manolo

Another incompetent decision by the deranged Nick Smith: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/61292/no-change-to-earner-acc-levy-system-next-year-govt
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November 7, 2010 2:30pm
nickb

Don’t worry, I found it.

Does anyone think the Monoghan saga gets more bizarre by the minute??

Just saw this quote from the Canberra Raiders CEO:

“The perils of the media and social media today are a great example of why you shouldn’t do it,” he said.

WTF? Wouldn’t the concept of getting a blowjob from a dog be a great example of why you shouldnt do it, instead if the fear of getting caught????

This idiot needs to be banned for life from the NRL. League is already (with some justification) seen as a sport played by neanderthals.
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November 7, 2010 2:35pm
adze

This idiot needs to be banned for life from the NRL. League is already (with some justification) seen as a sport played by neanderthals.

Someone proficient in photoshop should do one of those progressive evolution illustrations with an NRL player stooped over, an All Black further to the right and an All White representing modern man 🙂
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November 7, 2010 2:57pm
nickb

Hopefully Williamson can go on to make a 100.

What an achievement doing that on debut when your team is under the pump, against Harbhajan, Zaheer etc

And hopefully Williamson also has the talent to perform for NZ for many years to come, unlike supposed young talents who have lit up NZ cricket then burnt out shortly down the track. Think Sinclair, Vincent, How etc
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November 7, 2010 3:12pm
gazzmaniac

Reid – Many of the maoris I know don’t think of themselves as anything other than New Zealanders.
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November 7, 2010 3:24pm
Offshore_Kiwi

Reid, your analogy to the Japanese doesn’t survive. It dies (at the latest) when you start talking about English being forbidden. Not only is Maori not forbidden, attempts as recently as this week have been made to keep the life-support machine switched on.

Also, here are a few (off the top of my head):
Metiria Turei
Nanaia Mahuta
Moana Mackey
Mita Ririnui
Shane Jones
Tau Henare
Paula Bennett
Georgina Te Heu Heu

Your argument in favour of race-based seats simply doesn’t survive rational debate.
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November 7, 2010 3:27pm
gazzmaniac

I didn’t know Paula Bennett was maori.
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November 7, 2010 3:32pm
Jimbob

Did anybody hear Chris Laidlaw this morning on National radio taking to some guy about the American elections. The guy he was talking to sounded delusional, saying that Obama would sit this defeat out and waltz back in in 2012. He went on and on as if they were having a family chat. I thought, who is this guy? At the end Laidlaw said he was a guy Johansson from Victoria University. That dump down next to parliment should be called “The Socialist University of New Zealand”. Graduates must come out of there like zombie socialists.
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November 7, 2010 3:58pm
Nomestradamus

Pete George:

I had noticed you were absent from Kiwiblog – good to see you back.

I have to join with others here in offering my condolences. It was a very moving post you made, and you highlight very well the stark contradictions (and the deeply personal impact) that arise when dealing with the euthanasia issue. Interested to see how that debate unfolds – it will certainly make a nice change from the usual “religious Sunday” General Debate thread.
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November 7, 2010 3:59pm
Sonny Blount

Someone proficient in photoshop should do one of those progressive evolution illustrations with an NRL player stooped over, an All Black further to the right and an All White representing modern man 🙂

Because John Terry and co are the pinnacle of humanity…
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November 7, 2010 4:05pm
JiveKitty

Condolences, Pete.

“Maori won’t ever get elected without special seats because her population isn’t concentrated anywhere”

No Reid, Maori won’t get elected in large part because they are Maori if there are no Maori seats. They will, however, still get elected. There’s a difference. It’s an important one as it relegates race (which is a construct with whatever arbitrary meaning you choose to give it) as an important characteristic, hopefully leaving the focus of those within society to be on that which is best policy.
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November 7, 2010 4:11pm
Manolo

Johansson is the same guy who provides “political analysis” on TVNZ, which is nothing but a load of bollocks disguised as commentary from an “enlightened” left-wing professor. He’s a Labour stooge in the same camp as Laidlaw.

Will Obama tack to the centre after the electoral defeat? No. He’s already indicated his opposition to all of Bush tax cuts. The same can be said of the Democratic Party, which could elect the senile Pelosi as its next minority leader.

The deadly trifecta of Pelosi, Reid, and Obama raises the possibility of a 2012 Republican victory.
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November 7, 2010 4:13pm
Johnboy

I have just come back after an absence and read your post PG. My deepest sympathies it is not a very pleasant experience to go through. I have lost both my parents and in laws.

When it happens it is sobering to realise that our generation are next (all things being equal).

None of the above fine words mean that I have stopped thinking you are still a socialist arse of course. 🙂
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November 7, 2010 4:32pm
Inventory2

What an outstanding success the World Rowing Championships have been. Huge kudos to everyone involved in what has been a magnificent week of competition. New Zealand won ONE bronze medal when the champs were held here in 1978; this year, we have won 10 medals, including three golds. Bring on London 2012!
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November 7, 2010 4:43pm
Pauleastbay

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4317632/Councillors-already-demanding-pay-rise

Sur- bloody- prise!
You know what the pay scale is prior to the election. You get elected and then you moan about the pay scale.

This makes you too fucking stupid to be in the job.

I know one of the councillors and they are only required two days a week, so he’s staying with his day job to fill in his week.

Not one of those councillors had a gun put to their head and were forced to stand.

Words fail me.
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November 7, 2010 5:28pm
Yvette

Osama , Assalamu Alalikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh, have you seen this New Zealand website saying, “Star-Times inquiries revealed that staff from Auckland-based private equity company Direct Capital and several of its partner businesses were allowed into the Papakura Military Camp last month for a day of hands-on training that concluded with a cocktail party”? Allahu Akbar. The airfares would be most expensive, but we could surely get a discount by declining the drinks.
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November 7, 2010 5:49pm
Johnboy

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10686018

Was this the one Yvette?

Money talks. Hopefully not too much.
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November 7, 2010 5:55pm
gazzmaniac

Who cares if a company paid for a day with the SAS? Both parties probably had a really good time, and the SAS would have had a free round at the pub that night on Direct Capital.
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November 7, 2010 5:58pm
hj

Excerpt from the Human Rights Commission Submission on the Fisheries and Other Sea Related Legislation Select Committee

12 July 2004

” Relationship with land: Cultural rights should be interpreted by reference to the beneficiary of the right.1 A Māori interpretation of culture places a great deal of importance on the land, including coastal land (as the people belonging to the whenua and not vice versa). Under the Bill removal of customary title, for example, limits that cultural connection.”
__________-
so if Maori believe they have a spiritual connection with the land, that overides our percieved connection because it is their cultural right to be taken seriously?

PART 5: THE WAYS FORWARD

5.1 In dealing with the foreshore and seabed issue, the challenge facing the Select Committee, and us all, is to continue to deserve Michael King’s optimism about New Zealanders, that:

most New Zealanders, whatever their cultural backgrounds, are good-hearted, practical, commonsensical, and tolerant. Those qualities are part of the national cultural capital that has in the past saved this country from the worst excesses of chauvinism and racism seen in other parts of the world.1

5.2 And words of caution and optimism come from Alison Quentin-Baxter:

The history of our country has left a legacy of ignorance and prejudice about the rights of Māori as the tangata whenua that seems harder to eradicate than some of us had hoped. Still, I have some confidence that, if people are told the facts, asked to agree to outcomes that are as fair as possible to everyone, and feel that what is put to them has the ring of truth, it will be possible to move away from the politics of fear and envy that threaten our society.2

5.3 The Select Committee has a responsibility to make recommendations on the Bill that protect human rights and do not breach the Treaty of Waitangi
……………..
Unless I missed something, what the high minded HRC are saying is that Maori were here first therefore are hereditary owners of the foreshore and seabed (although they concentrate on minority = victim aspect). Somehow they believe that going down that road there will be a good outcome for everybody.
http://www.hrc.co.nz/home/hrc/newsandissues/foreshoreandseabedbill.php

they’ll get their water cut off!
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November 7, 2010 6:08pm
hj

SAS paid for ‘interaction’ with businessmen.
that’s disgusting, unless the organization is in public service. If the SAS had firing practice at some of our business elite I’d approve.
http://www.voxy.co.nz/business/harcourts039-showcase-china-generating-quotserious-interestquot/5/60035
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November 7, 2010 6:18pm
Offshore_Kiwi

hj, the All Blacks have been training with the armed forces for years (the first I remember reading about it was when John Mitchell was coach, but I think it was probably happening before that). There was no outcry about that, so I assume it’s OK? So, if it’s OK for sportsmen to train with our armed forces, why would it not be OK for business people. You know, that hated class of people who bring in the money that most kiwis are happy to steal and spread around.

And besides, according to the Dear Leader, we live in a benign strategic environment, so it’s likely the SAS are a bit bored sitting around all day. A bit of a lark with some business folks might be good for morale. They could play Hunt the Commie.
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November 7, 2010 6:26pm
Manolo

“If the SAS had firing practice at some of our business elite I’d approve.’

An indictment and telling expression of the policies of envy embraced by the pathetic NZ left. In hj’s class warfare-tinted glasses the people with higher aspirations, those with a higher capacity to get ahead in life, deserve to be shot at, as his feeble opinion expressed above.

It is a sickening approach to life with the only objective of equalising us all in mediocrity.
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November 7, 2010 6:55pm
Johnboy

Still it’s fucken sad where our elite troops need to do this to collect cash for their benevolent fund.

I blame it all on touchy, feely, sadarse, socialist, claptrap, bull shit and lay it right at the arse of the slimy Liarbore bastards as exemplified by Aunty Helen and the useless prick Goofy.

God save us all from socialist wankers. 🙂
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November 7, 2010 7:04pm
Rex Widerstrom

Pete George: My condolences also.

Clearly your mother was of that generation that faces things with stoicism and courage born of a life where the good had to be strived for and the bad wasn’t seen as some failure by society to keep one in the style to which one was accustomed, but rather as a natural part of life.

That generation had the courage to fight but the wisdom to realise when to stop fighting and accept that things are as they are. I can’t imagine anyone of that cohort opting for euthanasia until the point at which things became truly unbearable, which is why I wish it were legal for person of the age of your and my parents. The generations that came after, though, I’m not so sure about…
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November 7, 2010 7:33pm
bhudson

Pete,

My condolences also. I also have some experience with the death of a parent which comes as somewhat of a blessing after too long suffering. Despite the seeming ‘blessing’ on one level, it still feels too soon on another.

All the best to you and your family
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November 7, 2010 8:16pm
Chthoniid

My condolences Pete. That’s quite the emotionally challenging experience. Wishing you and your family all the best at this time.
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November 7, 2010 8:42pm
MikeNZ

Now this could bite Obama in the bum.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/11/04/united-nations-human-rights-council/?test=latestnews

This brought a tear to my eye, Obama squirming under the loaded mouths of China, Saudi Arabia, Cuba, Libya and more….
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November 8, 2010 2:01am
MikeNZ

Hope the good memories are to the fore for you and your family Pete.
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November 8, 2010 2:03am

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