General Debate 16 November 2010

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dad4justice

I do wonder if John Key will support Israel in the coming years? I must ask him eh Hillary.
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November 16, 2010 8:08am
tvb

The PM is doing a sterling job on the travel perk taking the focus off Mrs Wong but the information coming out gets worse and worse.
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November 16, 2010 8:11am
Murray

Given Keys track record hes more likely to throw more money at the most over funded and under scrutinised aid recipients on the planet, the freaken palos.

tvb, give Chris Carter some credit.
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November 16, 2010 8:19am
Chris2

Who is the middle-aged blonde woman often seen behind John Key during media interviews, both here and when overseas?
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November 16, 2010 8:20am
wreck1080

“The Chief Coroner is considering holding a joint inquest for three cyclists to determine whether driving laws need to change after the weekend’s heavy road toll.”

Thought there was already a law requiring you to drive on the left.

How will a new law help when the crash was caused by breaking the existing law (failing to keep left)? It just means 2 laws will be broken instead of one.
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November 16, 2010 8:21am
tvb

Chris Carter is just a petulant old queen I guess people find that amusing and news worthy. Yes I wanna know about that aging blond behind JOhn Key all the time. I presume she is some official from MFAT.
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November 16, 2010 8:21am
Pete George

“The Chief Coroner is considering holding a joint inquest for three cyclists to determine whether driving laws need to change after the weekend’s heavy road toll.”

Knee jerk time again. Even if we had an enforceable law against stupidity the stupid wouldn’t understand or would ignore.
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November 16, 2010 8:29am
Brian Smaller

“The Chief Coroner is considering holding a joint inquest for three cyclists to determine whether driving laws need to change after the weekend’s heavy road toll.”

Knee jerk time again. Even if we had an enforceable law against stupidity the stupid wouldn’t understand or would ignore.

The woman went too fast around a fairly gentle bend and drifted across the centre line by the look of things. No new law needed.
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November 16, 2010 8:32am
Pete George

Union lends weight to Labour man

One of the country’s biggest unions has mobilised support for Labour’s candidate in Saturday’s Mana byelection, Kris Faafoi.

Members of the Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union will be out in force to encourage voter turnout.

Labour president Andrew Little, who is also the union’s secretary, said “a fair few of our people” had been involved in the campaign over the past few weeks “and I suspect there will be good numbers involved come Saturday”.

Are Labour oblivious to their alienating virtually all but their rote vote?
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November 16, 2010 8:39am
tom hunter

The following is worth reading, because the CEO of Cisco systems has a track record that proves he’s neither an idiot nor a bullshit artist. Moreover, in the IT world Cisco is one of those leading indicator companies supplying some of the lowest-level building blocks, so they’re The Cisco in the Coal Mine:

Anyone who knows the history of tech – especially if they were journalists in early 2001 – must have shuddered with a sense of déjà vu.
…
It was at the absolute screaming apogee of all of this insanity that I found myself having a late lunch in Valley hotel bar watching John Chambers being interviewed on a business cable show.
…
We now know, as John himself has subsequently admitted, that he had returned from the holiday break to discover that Cisco’s enormous backlog of orders had essentially. . .evaporated. In the course of a single day, Chambers had gone from believing Cisco was atop the business world to fearing that the company might already be doomed. Looking back, it was the moment that the dot.com bubble began to pop.
…
The simple fact is that John Chambers has not had to make an announcement like the one he did last week since that day in 2001. He didn’t look as frightened this time – but then, he’s already been through it once, and he’s had nine years to become a better actor.
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November 16, 2010 9:00am
david

http://www.smh.com.au reports this morning

“Dozens dead in Shaghai high-rise fire November 16, 2010 – 7:06AM”
The typo is still up but for how long? A most unfortunate error.
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November 16, 2010 9:24am
BeaB

That gloomy-looking blonde is there to whisper “Respice te, hominem te memento” (“Look behind you, remember you are only a man”).
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November 16, 2010 9:24am
Inventory2

@ Pete George – does that mean that the KFC’s and Maccas in Mana will do a roaring trade come Saturday?
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November 16, 2010 9:24am
southtop

i suspect the woman you are asking about is Lesley Hamilton and likely title will be comunications manager. She is ex radio in Nelson and I think Wellington.
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November 16, 2010 9:25am
gravedodger

I am as appalled and saddened as anyone with the tragic deaths and injury to the cyclists in the Waikato last weekend but without knowing the road involved and basing this comment on what I presume was the actual road pictured on the news item on the box, I wonder why they were sharing that particular road.
I live at the end of Highway 75 and it is an appalling piece of road with very tight corners, poor edges to the seal, very indifferent surfaces and following the nearly 3000 quakes a very broken surface in many places. While I accept the right of cyclists to share the road I wonder at the appropriateness of that road for what are obviously personally chosen “trips” particularly during holiday weekends and at the busy times of the working day when cyclists will be amongst Campervans, often with relatively inexperienced drivers, large commercial trailers, truck and trailer units and gifted amateurs with large boats and other trailers.
It is common to see cyclists wearing earpieces giving them limiting awareness of following traffic, riding two or more abreast and in my opinion ignoring the basic law of keeping as far to the left as possible. Hell on on occasion on a sharp left hand corner i encountered a cyclist climbing towards me on the inside of the corner and weaving out into my path/lane, had I been moving faster and cutting my lefthand corner it would have been very very messy and a considerable interruption to my enjoyment of MY day.
I am not opposed to sharing the road with stock, horses, pedestrians, cyclists but I find the risk taking by many to border on the insane.
This is in no way a comment on the tragic events last weekend, just an observation on the potential dangers that exist from one who sometimes is involved in the aftermath in a professional sense in the cleaning up.
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November 16, 2010 9:27am
Pete George

I2 – maybe, if the Service Workers Union isn’t on strike.

In the past unions have served a useful purpose, when they haven’t abused their power and coercion. But in this century I’m very disappointed that voters aren’t encouraged to think and vote for themselves – I guess unions don’t want members to think and act for themselves, they prefer a captive market.
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November 16, 2010 9:31am
pdm

D4J – I have a recollection of you saying a few weeks ago that you would never soil the keys of your computer by posting on Kiwiblog ever again. Yet here you are setting the pace for the day in the General Debate.

Whats up? Were you lonely with nowhere else to go?
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November 16, 2010 9:54am
big bruv

He misses me pdm.
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November 16, 2010 10:09am
Say Goodbye to Hollywood

My days of riding on the road are pretty much over unless I’m out early enough on a weekend. It’s just too bloody dangerous. I’ll stick to mountain biking when your only real concerns are trees, who don’t give way and tree roots (evil tree roots).
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November 16, 2010 10:15am
Say Goodbye to Hollywood

Actually pdm I recall D4J saying the same thing. I think BB is right, he misses him.
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November 16, 2010 10:16am
Akaroa

Pete George at 8.28 posted:“The Chief Coroner is considering holding a joint inquest for three cyclists to determine whether driving laws need to change after the weekend’s heavy road toll.”, and commented “Knee jerk time again. Even if we had an enforceable law against stupidity the stupid wouldn’t understand or would ignore”.

To respond, well, you’re right up to a point, Pete.

But I believe that if cyclists were forbidden by law to ride two or more abreast and restricted instead to riding in single file, it might help reduce some of the carnage we’ve seen on our – and overseas – roads in recent times.

And beore the cyclists rise en masse and claim – ‘We are road users too and therefore entitled to ride as we wish’, I’ll say ‘No you are not. Start paying road tax and maybe you’ll have a platform to speak from. Until then, just keep well to the left, matey!”.
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November 16, 2010 10:31am
Nick Kearney

Why won’t the media just leave David Tamihere drink his coffee in peace?

Can I suggest they leave him alone, at least for the first day!
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November 16, 2010 10:41am
Pete George

Why won’t the media just leave David Tamihere drink his coffee in peace?

Because the media don’t care about ex-prisoner adjustment, if they hound him enough now they are likely to get some news, and more likely to provoke some more news down the track.
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November 16, 2010 10:49am
Rick Rowling

And beore the cyclists rise en masse and claim – ‘We are road users too and therefore entitled to ride as we wish’, I’ll say ‘No you are not. Start paying road tax and maybe you’ll have a platform to speak from. Until then, just keep well to the left, matey!”.

This is an old argument and just plain wrong for most roads in New Zealand.

Repeat this mantra next time you’re tempted to comment:

Rates pay for local roads
Rates pay for local roads
Rates pay for local roads
Rates pay for local roads

/no, I don’t cycle on the road, local or otherwise
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November 16, 2010 10:55am
Rick Rowling

Chris2 – I heard your dog-whistle.
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November 16, 2010 10:56am
backster

The teachers at Springfield Elementary went out on strike on last nights episode and Bart and Lisa got sent home from School. Homer explained to Bart, “Going on Strike is not the American Way, if you are sick of your job you just go along every day and do it in a half arsed way.”……I thought well the Springfield Teachers didn’t take any notice of his view but the message seemed to get through to the teachers in this country.
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November 16, 2010 10:58am
big bruv

I am no fan of David Tamihere, IMHO he should remain locked up for the rest of this natural life.

However, I found the sight of that jumped up precocious little shit Jack Tame knocking on the door of his family home to be the lowest form of gutter journalism there is.

The guy is out now, at least give him a chance of living a normal life.
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November 16, 2010 10:58am
Pete George

Only in the US?

Tea Party two-step

It seems that Bristol Palin, who isn’t actually a star but is on Dancing With The Stars, despite “dismal performances and the lowest scores each week” keeps getting high votes thanks to Tea Party Supporters. It seems to have become another political sideshow.

This highlights one of the biggest weaknesses of parts of the Tea Party – they seem to support anyone that takes their fancy (fits their criteria) – and ability isn’t much of a consideration. Way to dumb down the GOP.
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November 16, 2010 11:06am
Sonny Blount

But I believe that if cyclists were forbidden by law to ride two or more abreast and restricted instead to riding in single file, it might help reduce some of the carnage we’ve seen on our – and overseas – roads in recent times.

It is the law. All vehicles travelling below the speed limit must pull over immediately to let any following traffic past. Riding two abreast does not constitute pulling over.
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November 16, 2010 11:16am
Sonny Blount

Repeat this mantra next time you’re tempted to comment:

Rates pay for local roads
Rates pay for local roads
Rates pay for local roads
Rates pay for local roads

Taxes pay for highways
Taxes pay for highways
Taxes pay for highways

Thats all the roads with numbers on them, which are the main arterial routes and the local roads don’t function without.
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November 16, 2010 11:19am
Sonny Blount

This highlights one of the biggest weaknesses of parts of the Tea Party – they seem to support anyone that takes their fancy (fits their criteria) – and ability isn’t much of a consideration. Way to dumb down the GOP.

You talkin’ bout Barack there Pete?

You do realise Barney Frank got re-elected by those oh so clever Dem supporters don’t you? It was ’cause of his ability

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1KwkScA540
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November 16, 2010 11:21am
Rick Rowling

Sonny – that’s why I said “most” roads.

usually when the “you don’t pay road tax” chestnut comes out, it’s in the middle of a thread about Dyer’s Pass Road, Oriental Bay, Tamaki Drive etc etc.

Most state highways are sparsely used by cyclists.

Cyclists when riding on the road are most often on local roads.

Following the “You didn’t pay for the road, so give way” argument, anyone from out of town driving near me should keep out of my way on local roads 🙂
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November 16, 2010 11:29am
Pete George

That could be talking about plenty of politicians Sonny, including here. Mana is a good example.

Re cycling two abreast on roads – it shouldn’t make any difference to traffic coming the other way, they should keep to their own side of the road regardless.
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November 16, 2010 11:37am
Repton

It is common to see cyclists wearing earpieces giving them limiting awareness of following traffic, riding two or more abreast and in my opinion ignoring the basic law of keeping as far to the left as possible.

Two quick comments:

1. I’ve done a small amount of cycling on the open road, and there is basically no point in being aware of following traffic. It approaches too fast for you to react to. (intersections are an exception, of course. The scariest thing I’ve done on a bike is cross the Petone turnoff on my way from Wellington to Lower Hutt before they improved it…)

2. On city roads, “as far left as possible” is not always a good idea because the side of the road collects rubbish and broken glass. Sometimes the best place to be is in the normal path of a car’s left hand tyres.
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November 16, 2010 11:38am
tvb

I all for having designated roads for cyclists, where there is a good shoulder for them to ride on. There is a tendency on cyclists to think they can ride 3-4 abreast. I have no hesitation in giving them a loud toot as I go past. The problem is cyclists present a dilemma. You either squeeze past them or risk a head on collision. Those cyclists get the loud toot. They are freeloaders basically.
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November 16, 2010 11:42am
big bruv

Is Bristol as dense as her mum/mom?
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November 16, 2010 11:45am
kaya

Now this is a mighty powerful list of people telling Bernanke his “throwing money from a helicopter” ploy is not a very good idea!!

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2010/11/15/open-letter-to-ben-bernanke/
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November 16, 2010 12:01pm
redeye

“Is Bristol as dense as her mum/mom?”

I’m sure she would refudiate that.
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November 16, 2010 12:07pm
tvb

The economist gives QE a qualified tick. But there is a wonderful cartoon on youtube explaining it all especially the relationship with “the Goldman Sachs” who are selling US treasuries being purchased with printed money by the Fed.
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November 16, 2010 12:18pm
Grant Michael McKenna

Peter de Villiers is worried his entire squad may have taken a banned substance, according to the NZ Herald.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10687939
I didn’t know that Suzie Mthethwa is now in Ireland…
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November 16, 2010 12:43pm
cha

The Oxford English Dictionary has named refudiate its word of the year
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November 16, 2010 12:44pm
kaya

tvb

Do you have a link to the youtube cartoon? There is some funny shit coming out about what is potentially a catastrophic situation. Saw this quote on the web while looking for your cartoon:

“I’ve abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system.”

George Dubya – 2008, talking about why he pushed the bailouts.
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November 16, 2010 1:51pm
wreck1080

This fucker better go to jail for a long time, it really is a miracle he did not kill anyone on his selfish trail of destruction….

http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/9524-alleged-burglary-triggers-pursuit.html

Look at this scumbag, driving on the wrong side of the road at speed in heavy traffic.

Probably i’m more angry because my children were on the road in this area close to the time this happened. It would have been so easy for a head-on to occur.

He should be charged with attempted murder at the very least. And, I thought you weren’t supposed to call them police pursuits anymore, supposed to be fleeing driver.
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November 16, 2010 2:08pm
Rodders

Another reason not to support Matt

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4350277/Harawira-backs-McCarten-for-Mana
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November 16, 2010 2:34pm
big bruv

Hey Trev…I know you read Kiwiblog, how do you feel after getting such a slap down from John Key this afternoon?

Even you would have to admit that Key made you look like a bigger dick than you already are.
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November 16, 2010 2:47pm
Say Goodbye to Hollywood

Details BB, I missed that one.
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November 16, 2010 2:54pm
Dirty Rat

ha ha ha ha hah a

I shit you not.

The previous President of the World’s book not out, guess what was the saddest time of his Reign ?

911 ?.. nope

New Orleans ?…. nope

those torture pictures ? …… nope

It was Kanye West

pissing myself laughing
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November 16, 2010 2:58pm
Fletch

I know this is not important in the big scheme of things but,

CHECKOUT OPERATORS – I go to great lengths to stand up my bottle of Cola in my trolley or basket to make sure it doesn’t tip over. I even wedge it in when I pack the stuff into the car so that it will not tip over on the way home. PLEASE, is there any reason you have to throw it about and let it fall over when u scan in the groceries? I like my Coke fizzy, not with all the fizz shaken out of it before I open it.

THANKYOU
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November 16, 2010 3:29pm
Fletch

Re: cycling –

I just don’t think NZ roads are made for it. We can attempt to paint in cycling lanes (which tend to dead-end when the wideness of the road runs out) but there’s just no getting around the fact that roads here are just not wide enough to accommodate cyclists.
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November 16, 2010 3:33pm
adze

@Fletch
Just lie the coke down when you put it on the conveyor, parallel to the direction of motion so it doesn’t roll about too much. I’ve even been asked to do that by an operator when the bottle was glass (wine).
Either that or get boxes of cans, you can keep the cans and sell them to a scrap metal merchant once you’ve got enough of them.
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November 16, 2010 3:34pm
James Stephenson

but there’s just no getting around the fact that roads here are just not wide enough to accommodate cyclists.

Bollocks. What there’s no getting around, is that on the whole, Kiwi drivers are utterly useless and shouldn’t be behind the wheel of anything capable of exceeding 20 kph.

New Zealand drivers must easily top the OECD for the biggest gap between their perception and reality of their skill levels.
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November 16, 2010 3:43pm
Fletch

@adze, it’s not the conveyor bit that caused it. I had it standing in the basket and all she had to do was take it out. She roughly takes it out and rolls it around all over the scanner (where I can see it all frothing up) then roughly thrusts it into the bag whereupon it falls over.

Actually, I try and get the boxes of glass bottles which I prefer, but that is more expensive.
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November 16, 2010 3:51pm
Fletch

James, where we are the roads are hardly wide enough for two cars let alone cyclists, therefore you quite often get stuck behind a whole pack of them and can’t pass.
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November 16, 2010 3:54pm
RightNow

http://inthehouse.co.nz/node/6229
Key “I think could Mr Taylor could have potentially in hindsight chosen his words more wisely, but the thing I’m relieved about is he didn’t use his fists”
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November 16, 2010 4:07pm
kaya

I just heard on NewstalkZB that Key opposes an independent inquiry into the travel perk saga? Anyone have an update on this? It seems strange considering up till now he has been saying all the right things like getting rid of them and not increasing salaries to “compensate”.
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November 16, 2010 4:17pm
pollywog

Bailey Junior Kurariki got 11 months jail. That’ll sort him out eh ?

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/kurariki-back-in-prison-3895472

In February Kurariki exposed himself, masturbated in front of one, and groped the journalists who had visited his mother Lorraine West’s South Auckland home for an arranged interview.

The journalists’ names are suppressed.

Judge Jonathan Moses said the victims had suffered “significant emotional impacts”.

so why do these journos get name supression. wheres whaleoil exposing the truth about this affair ?

how was it 2 female journos go round to Baileys house and sit passively through a sexual assault to get a story, end up becoming the story but manage to leave themselves out of the telling of it ?
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November 16, 2010 4:37pm
RightNow

pollywog, they are considered the victims, and I don’t think anyone has suggested victims shouldn’t get name suppression.
What makes you think they sat passively through a sexual assault? Do you have some information that the rest of us haven’t been let in on?
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November 16, 2010 4:55pm
big bruv

Pollywog

“Bailey Junior Kurariki got 11 months jail. That’ll sort him out eh ?”

Nope, only a bullet to the back of the head will sort out this piece of shit, sadly we have not reinstated capital punishment….yet.
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November 16, 2010 4:58pm
RightNow

Buyer Beware: NZ Herald online shopping service. Read the review here;
http://pricespy.co.nz/store.php?ftgid=10745&lista=omdomen
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November 16, 2010 5:12pm
pollywog

What makes you think they sat passively through a sexual assault? Do you have some information that the rest of us haven’t been let in on?

only their own words in retelling the events through the press.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10629000&pnum=0

sure the reporters are victims. victims of their own stupidity. for that alone they should be outed !!!

http://ethicalmartini.wordpress.com/2010/03/27/victim-accomplished-bailey-kurariki-no-life-in-a-glass-walled-cage/
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November 16, 2010 5:21pm
pollywog

“Bailey Junior Kurariki got 11 months jail. That’ll sort him out eh ?”

Nope, only a bullet to the back of the head will sort out this piece of shit, sadly we have not reinstated capital punishment….yet. – Big Bruv

so do us all a favour then or just shut the fuck up with your big man bullshit internet solutions.
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November 16, 2010 5:26pm
RightNow

from the Herald article

“I knew it was pointless screaming for help because Lorraine was too ill to respond.

“I desperately tried to continue the interview as if nothing had happened to buy us some time to try and work out an exit strategy without inflaming the situation.

“My instincts told me to get the hell out of there as soon as we could, but I knew it was crucial to remain calm and collected.”

I don’t get it, are you telling me the poor kid’s just been dealt a rough hand and doesn’t deserve to be treated this way?
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November 16, 2010 5:30pm
big bruv

Now, now Pollywog, that is not very nice is it.

Do you think that Kurariki needs more of a cuddle?
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November 16, 2010 5:31pm
RightNow

PS pollywog, I don’t think the media should keep pursuing Bailey, and I agree it wasn’t very smart of these two to go and attempt an interview with him. That doesn’t make his actions ok though.
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November 16, 2010 5:36pm
side show bob

Anyone see the “exclusive” on TV1 news last night?. About a rural postie who is being chased breathlessly by retarded reporters because he still has a job delivering mail, given he has had 3 drink driving charges . God these fuckwits are desperate, since when has it being the state broadcasters job to chase down people going about their lawful business. And given all the news in the world these pathetic characters have to create so called “news ??????”.
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November 16, 2010 5:37pm
francis

Nice job at the Trade Me seminar today, David!
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November 16, 2010 5:59pm
pollywog

I agree it wasn’t very smart of these two to go and attempt an interview with him. That doesn’t make his actions ok though.

Nah it doesn’t RightNow, but to give it some context, he’s a fucked up kid who became a fucked up adult, so of course he was gonna pull some fucked up shit if you sent 2 female reporters around to ‘interview’ him !!!

what did they think was gonna happen and why did they passively sit through his worsening behaviour to the point where he groped one before they bailed and what were they interviewing him for ?

they shouldn’t have gone there in the first place, cos as i understand, he was under a media ban and wasn’t allowed to talk to them. As trained journalists they knew that, or should have, and so anything else that happened should never have if they’d just stayed well the fuck away from him.

they baited him and played the victim when he acted out true to form to get the story they wanted.

so now he gets 11 months, his side of the story will never be told and the reporters who instigated the whole mess get name supression and a closed shop of MSM secrecy surrounding them

if i knew who they were i’d out them to highlight the issue, though i think whaleoil should, given his form, and to hell with the consequences.

so are these two female ‘significantly emotionally impacted’ Herald on Sunday journalist victims still working for the same rag and has their employer sanctioned them or drafted guidelines on dealing with young male violent offenders in compromising situations during the course of their work ?
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November 16, 2010 6:03pm
Fletch

Good to see the Treaty Minister on the TV news tonight say, “they can go to Hell, I’m not going up there” in response to the Maori protesters illegally occupying land up North and refusing to move until they see the minister.
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November 16, 2010 6:09pm
pollywog

Do you think that Kurariki needs more of a cuddle?

do you think you can put a gun to his head and pull the trigger and do you think you could get away with saying…

only a bullet to the back of the head will sort out this piece of shit

about John Key ?

Basically you’ve just advocated for murder, online in a public forum, as though Bailey were a mongrel worrying sheep !!!

seriously bruv, you need to check yourself before you wreck yourself !!!
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November 16, 2010 6:11pm
big bruv

Pollywog

I know I can get away with saying that Kurariki should have faced the death penalty, he took the life of another person, a totally innocent person yet for some reason morons like you seem to be more concerned with caring for this piece of shit than you are about the safety of the public.

And as for your John Key comments….what the fuck are you talking about?, who has John Key killed?
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November 16, 2010 6:27pm
pollywog

I can get away with saying that Kurariki should have faced the death penalty, he took the life of another person

He was 12 yrs old and played lookout, little knowing that a murder was going to take place and you would have him face the death penalty for that ?…but not only that, you would have him executed with a bullet in the back of the head like an animal.

Bailey didn’t kill anyone and neither has John Key, but the point is, you know you can get away with advocating murder of a fucked up brown kid online in this haven for cracka ass crackas like yourself, where you couldn’t advocate the same about a rich white guy in a suit running the country into the ground.

speaks volumes to your character, in that you’re as fucked up a piece of shit as you think Bailey is. He did his time and paid for his crime and wasn’t given another chance before 2 female reporters took it upon themselves to poke another stick at the fucked up ‘animal’ to prove it .

Karma has a way of evening the score for people like you and other David Garrett types, and when it does you’ll be playing the ‘victim’ as much as the 2 journos.
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November 16, 2010 7:33pm
Viking2

SPEAK NOW OR FOREVER LOSE YOUR BEACH!

In his iconic book “Free to Choose”, Milton Friedman explained the strategy used by many governments when they want to pass legislation that will benefit a minority of citizens at the expense of the majority: “When a special interest seeks benefits through highly visible legislation, it must not only clothe its appeal in the rhetoric of the general interest, it must persuade a significant segment of disinterested persons that its appeal has merit. Legislation recognised as naked self-interest will seldom be adopted”.

This is the game that John Key is playing as he attempts to cement in the long-term support of the Maori Party through his race-based carve-up of New Zealand’s publicly owned coastline. If all goes according to his plan, the Marine and Coastal Area Bill will be passed into law by the end of summer. Iwi leaders are already lining their claims up in anticipation. In spite of their orchestrated protestations about the Bill, they can’t believe their luck.

As long as the qualifying criteria for claims remains extremely weak (the Attorney General’s drafting has ensured that) and claims can be negotiated through a political process involving secret negotiations with their friendly Minister in preference to having it heard in the Courts, they will be laughing all the way to the bank. Thanks to their new cosy deal with the Chris Finlayson and the National Party, iwi leaders will have won the biggest property and wealth transfer since the Treaty was signed in 1840. The losers will be ordinary New Zealanders as the publicly held foreshore and seabed – long regarded as an integral part of the Kiwi way of life – is stripped away. Kiwis will become second-class citizens, guests in their own land.

Carefully couched in the language of political spin and half-truths – ‘giving them back what is rightfully theirs’ and ‘nothing much will change’ – a large proportion of the public and the media have been duped into thinking that the Marine and Coastal Area Bill is nothing to worry about. But those of us who have been following this issue have seen the deceitful strategy employed by the Maori and National Parties.

In this week’s Breaking Views Blog Disingenuous or Dim? Mike Butler looks at National’s misinformation strategy as they try to discredit the concerns of the Coastal Coalition – a grassroots movement of thousands of Kiwis who are fighting to keep the foreshore and seabed in Crown ownership – by abuse and criticism instead of honestly coming clean about what they are trying to do.

John Key has tried to justify his Bill by claiming that will heal a “weeping sore”. In reality it is about to create an open wound within New Zealand as an entirely new grievance industry is spawned. The Maori Party has already stated that this Bill will not be the end of this matter – they will not be satisfied until they have Maori Title to the whole coast. And iwi leaders have been open in expressing their desire for power and control over the entire 200 mile Exclusive Economic Zone – including all fishing and mining. Lying ahead will be claims and counter claims, protests and squabbles, and demands for taxpayer funded compensation as iwi after iwi make the case that they would have had a claim for the foreshore and seabed – if it hadn’t have been for Crown confiscations…

Submissions on the Marine and Coastal Area Bill close this Friday November 19th – you can click here>>> for our simple guide on putting in a submission. If you are concerned about the future of this country I cannot urge you strongly enough to exercise your democratic right to have your say and oppose this radical Bill. And please be assured that when it comes to submissions, numbers do matter. So even if your submission is as brief as “I oppose this Bill”, it will make a difference. Please make the effort to tell this government what you think of their plan to extinguish the public ownership right that you and your family and generations of Kiwis have enjoyed to our beaches and the sea.

When John Key launched the government’s review of the foreshore and seabed law back in March, he assured New Zealanders that he would only change the law if there was widespread public support. With 77 percent of the 1500 submissions to that review being opposed to the repeal of Crown ownership, and 91 percent being opposed to the Attorney General’s proposed Bill, the message against a law change could not be stronger. In spite of that, John Key appears intent on breaking his word and forcing the law change through against the wishes of the New Zealand public.

It is all very well for the Prime Minister to claim that once Maori own the foreshore and seabed then they will allow free access. But that assurance is not his to give. Under his Bill, the coast will be owned by tribal groups, many of whom already have a history of strong disregard for the rule of law. And if iwi really don’t want the public around, all they have to do is use the powers in the Bill to declare wahi tapu to prohibit public access and ensure wardens are on patrol ready to slap on the $5,000 fines set out in the Bill. This would ensure that iwi would have the area to themselves since there are no rights of public appeal.

Anyone who thinks such things won’t happen can’t have been listening to the news because recent Maori protests have focussed on the foreshore and seabed. The protest that centred on the Taipa Sailing Club closed the public boat ramp and prevented a range of scheduled events including activities for children. Protestors demanded that everyone who walked on the beach or launched a boat had to ask permission. Those who refused were threatened and abused, and there were assaults. While the Police have now moved the protestors away, there are reports that they are expected back any day.

Another foreshore and seabed protest at Papa Aroha on the Coromandel ended just a few weeks ago after the case went to Court and trespass notices were issued. The occupation had been going on for four months with protestors claiming that they had customary rights to the foreshore and seabed. The protestors placed barricades across the road to assert control and exclude others. They erected wahi tapu signs on adjoining public reserves, and denied access to the beachfront, abusing anyone who tried to use the area, and intimidating nearby campers. While the protestors were finally moved off by the Police, they were back a few days later, and have threatened more protest action in the future.

This is a sign of what’s to come if National’s Bill becomes law.

But as we think about these Maori groups lining up to get their hands on the spoils of their coalition deal with National, it is important to reflect on the fundamental issue at stake here. When the Court of Appeal delivered their rogue judgement in 2003 that started this whole controversy over the foreshore and seabed, they stated that customary title ‘might’ exist around the coast and that groups who believed they had such rights should be able to test their claims in court.

What National has done in their new Bill is not only to allow claimants to sidestep the rigours of proving their claim in an open court by allowing direct negotiation with a Minister of the Crown (presumably Chris Finalyson, a former Treaty negotiator for Ngai Tahu), they have weakened the qualifying criteria to the point where almost anyone could make a claim.

Under the present law, the only iwi who can claim that they have the equivalent of a customary title to the foreshore and seabed are those who have land adjoining the claim. With the foreshore and seabed being made up of the ‘wet’ part of the beach and the sea, claimants have to show that they have used this area in an ‘exclusive and uninterrupted fashion since 1840’. Yet in the proposed Bill, the need for iwi to own land next to the area being claimed has been dropped. But how on earth can an iwi possibly ‘own’ the wet part of the beach and the sea when they don’t live next to it? Where do they go when the tide comes in? Where do they sleep at night? The new definitions in the Bill render the whole customary title concept a joke.

Similarly, the test of ‘exclusive and uninterrupted occupation since 1840’, which is the other main criteria that iwi must prove if they are to gain title to the coast, has been watered down. The Bill allows the claimed area to have been transferred to other people outside of the claimant group so that ‘uninterrupted’ no longer means what it says. And a new Supplementary Order Paper from the Attorney General allows that claims for ‘exclusive occupation’ can still go ahead even if other groups regularly use the area for fishing and navigation purposes!

National should stop playing the game of pretending that the Bill will settle historic grievances, when it is clearly a law to allocate the coast to iwi, so iwi can exploit the privilege for their own private commercial benefit.

And while talking about game playing, Labour should stop their game playing as well – pretending that National’s Bill is the same as their 2004 Foreshore and Seabed Act so that they don’t have to oppose it and so do not risk getting offside with the Maori Party with whom they are hoping to do a deal after the next election!

Likewise National party MPs have u-turned. In 2004 the National Party MP for Nelson, Nick Smith, spearheaded a petition to Parliament, supported by 17,654 others, requesting that “the House retain Crown title on the beaches, seabed and foreshore”! Nick Smith went on to say, “Anyone who wants to divide up the shoreline for one exclusive group of citizenship must be stopped”. You might well think that this is a rallying call from the Coastal Coalition!

In 2004, the National Party ran media advertisements supporting ownership of the foreshore and seabed remaining with the Crown for the benefit of all New Zealanders. They expressed concern that, “Holders of Customary Right Orders will have the power to ‘veto’ resource consents…. You know what that means. You want to build a boat ramp. But local iwi says, “Not so fast. Your ramp will have a ‘significant adverse effect’ on our customary rights”. You then have two choices. A court case (bound to be long and expensive). Or a bribe (merely expensive). You pay the koha”.

National’s ad concluded with this comment, “This legislation will divide our country, not bring it together. This is not the way to build a better future for all of us. National says the foreshore and seabed is Kiwi property. Not iwi property.”[1]

Yes, you have read that correctly – in an astonishing about face, the party that claimed it did not want to carve up the coast along racial lines in 2004, is now doing just that in 2010. It is no wonder that National has tried to gloss over the massive changes in their Marine and Coastal Area Bill and keep the public in the dark by pretending that nothing will change and that this Bill will not be divisive. They know damned well that it will have a massive impact but do not want to have to justify their about-face to supporters.

This week’s NZCPR Guest Commentator is economist Prof Roger Bowden, who has concluded that the Bill is likely to generate an entirely new round of Waitangi-style settlements, with settled claims put up for re-negotiation and compensation as well. He comments:

“Customary marine title (CMT) amounts to an entirely new frame of reference for economic ownership; and a fuzzy frame, given the lack of criteria for establishing title or defining areas. The stage will be set for progressive relaxation of the criteria by future governments pressured by coalitional or other imperatives. The likely outcome is an expansion of areas and activities qualifying for CMT. The economic cost on the NZ economy will likewise become an increasing burden, for this is in effect a tax on the whole in favour of a part. Maori will become popularly identified as a sub-nation of rent seekers. That is immensely damaging for our long term economic prospects.

“The proposed Act is constitutional in character. A change of this magnitude, and such lasting effects, should be referred to a referendum, in which each side can present their case in public debate according to a democratic process; with enough time for arguments, both pro and contra, to come to light and be aired. The Australians can do it, so should we”. To read Prof Bowden’s article “Marry in haste, repent at leisure”, click the sidebar link>>>

If you are concerned about all of this there is something you can do. Put in a submission and tell everyone you know to do the same. Then send this newsletter on to anyone else who you think might share your concerns. Submissions close on Friday November 19th.

Haven’t had any discussion from DPF on this of late. Is there a reason I wonder?
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November 16, 2010 7:35pm
dad4justice

NB, big bruv alias Brendan Dugan or whoever coward , fat boy slob leave me alone, my email account is overflowing with your insane and repugnant rhetoric you f##ked up deranged creep. F##k you are one sick ####!

You need treatment you piece of shit. What a sad life you must have. Get a grip you gutless wonder!
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November 16, 2010 7:42pm
dad4justice

Hey kiwiblog readers every time I post on here that vile #### big bruv floods my email box.

Sort this out Farrar or I will f##king well sort it! I have had a f##king gutsful of this insane cowardly maggot ####!
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November 16, 2010 7:48pm
big bruv

Pollywog

At least you have outed yourself as one of those on the left (and sadly there are thousands of you) who care more for murderers like Kurariki than you do for law abiding citizen.

I note that you also insist on using the lame old “it was not his fault” excuse so popular with you losers, you also claim that he has “paid for his crime” when that is clearly not the case.

Kurariki is a killer, he was found guilty of that crime and served an insultingly short sentence for it.

And yes, I sure as hell do advocate that people like him deserve a bullet in the back of the head, along with William Bell, Graham Burton and Clayton Weatherston…..hell, some of those guys are white Pollywog.

Again your John Key comments are stupid, while we both agree (for vastly differing reasons) that he is not taking the country in the right direction he is at least trying to do the best job he can with the fucking mess he inherited from left wing wankers like yourself.
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November 16, 2010 7:50pm
big bruv

Oh stop telling lies D4J.
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November 16, 2010 7:57pm
nickb

This should be good..
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November 16, 2010 8:03pm
Viking2

Actually no. Its bloody pathetic.
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November 16, 2010 8:28pm
big bruv

Could not agree more V2, don’t blame me for the actions of a mad man.
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November 16, 2010 8:31pm
dad4justice

V2 since my last post tonight big bruv has emailed me twice. This is beyond pathetic and I have had it with this repugnant malicious cowardly character who is obviously suffering from an unhealthy mental fixation and insane control obsessions. You should try be on the receiving end of this creeps utter bullshit. Fact, this nutbar needs treatment. Gawd I’m so sick of this yellow back coward. Big blouse calls me a “mad man” however my lawyer has said “enough is enough Peter this man is very disturbed”. Fact. This man is an utter disgarce to blogosphere.
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November 16, 2010 8:37pm
gazzmaniac

Why don’t you just filter him?
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November 16, 2010 8:39pm
dad4justice

gazz – most of big bruv’s malicious emails have been forwarded to my lawyer who has forwarded them onto police. I will fix this vile cowardly snake in due time. Man what a deranged creep with a pathological hatred that is quite bizarre to say the lest.
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November 16, 2010 8:43pm
RightNow

nickb ftw
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November 16, 2010 8:47pm
nickb

Viking- on that note I am actually going home to Coopers Beach (1 beach around from Taipa) for xmas.

Will go for a walk on the beach, watch those bums try and stop me… get a job you fuckwits
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November 16, 2010 8:48pm
nickb

D4J, how do you know it is bruv?

Haven’t you considered that it could be someone like billyborker, MNIJ et al fucking with you? By the sounds of it they have done similar things in the past.
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November 16, 2010 8:49pm
dad4justice

nickb – it’s big bruv alright. I could cut and paste over a 100 emails from the coward that I have recieved within the last month. But I won’t bore everybody .This guy is one very sick puppy. Anyway nick, police will sort this out from now on in.
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November 16, 2010 8:53pm
gazzmaniac

Or you could just filter him. Five minutes to set up – it’d take longer than that to drive to the cop shop.
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November 16, 2010 9:05pm
kowtow

Viking 2 ;
Great post,you’re right ,very little said here on the issue.
Viva the Sheeple and clearly a National agenda.They will lose my vote.I gave them 2 ticks to see off Labour.
If Key thinks this will cement any thing with the apatheid party he willl be sorely mistaken. They’ll get into bed with anyone with an open cheque book.
The silence or conivance of the MSM is note worthy. They have bought into the feel good warm fuzzy of the Nats and Maoris getting together thing,all part of the lie that “we are one people”,it’s a Kiwi mantra dont you know.

It will all end, as always, in tears.
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November 16, 2010 9:07pm
dad4justice

But gazz this big bruv, billy borker, Brendan Dugan type creep has hounded myself and my family since I started posting on kiwiblog ( whenever that was ?). Surely natural justice is far better than a filter. I must expose the problem and fix it. Simple.
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November 16, 2010 9:09pm
WebWrat

Made my day!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U2hB-Pz4zs&feature=player_embedded
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November 17, 2010 12:40am

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