General Debate 14 May 2011

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By_Election

The leading candidate for the Maori Party now seems to be Pita Tipene Chairperson of the Ngati Hine Forestry Trust, he is from Ngati Hine.

At best any Maori Party candidate would end up at around10%. Kelvin from Labour at most would sit around 30%, while Hone and Mana would at least be around the 60% mark in the June 25 By Election.

The Maori Party is politically mortally wounded in the North, and shall become of no electoral relevance in the North.

When you stand Hone against Kelvin, Hone and Mana win hands down with the Maori Party candidate performing extremely badly.

The Northern Advocate Newspaper ran an online poll yesterday, it had120 votes.

Hone Mana Party 77%
Kelvin Labour Party 18%
Maori Party Candadiate 5%

The newspaper also under took a street poll through Northland. Mr Brown said “he had not voted in the 2008 general election, but had since grown to admire Mr Harawira”, Ms Mare 63 said she voted for the Maori Party in 2008 “because of Hone.”, “What he says he does,” pledging a switch to Mana. Grace Takimoana said “…I voted for Labour last time, but they haven’t got much hope with their new leader.”

In the last General Election Hone had a resounding 32% majority over Kelvin, Hone’s electorate vote grew about 10% in 2008, while the Maori Party vote decreased by 1.3%. Combine that with the Advocate poll result the trend is clear Hone has grown support while the Maori Party has lost support.

I heard there may have been around 16 at the Maori Party Waitangi hui, that should have been the story of the day. Further the president Pam Bird of the Maori Party dismisses Maori youth our future leaders. In a poll during the last election 70% of the voters in the electorate wanted the Maori Party to work with Labour, not National. Do not forget the New Zealand First backlash for going into government with National, the seats were basically wiped out.

Polling prior to the 2008 election from Maori Television poll had some interesting numbers;

Only 20.6% surveyed said Kelvin Davis could be trusted, 21.2% to deliver on his promises. When you move on to he knows the needs of local people Kevin performs badly again at 16.2%.When it comes to leadership Kevin only manages 19.2%. The survey about who has personality Kelvin scores 11.2%, while Hone scores 71.4%.
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May 14, 2011 9:20am
Yvette

Toi moko ‘remind us humans are not chattels’
… The first European trade in toi moko was when botanist Joseph Banks, on Cook’s first voyage, traded a pair of old white linen drawers for the head of a teenage boy, Karanga Aotearoa Repatriation researcher Amber Aranui says …
The event kicked off what Rouen Museum now describes as the “hateful trafficking of another era”…
– http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5003232/Toi-moko-remind-us-humans-are-not-chattels

But that is only part of the story. Slaves were deliberately tattooed and beheaded when carved faces became a commodity. I can think of nothing more terrifying and barbaric. Undergoing the extreme pain of having one’s face chiselled for reasons of rank and pride is one thing. Imagine experiencing the same agonising process in the knowledge that it is preceding your death. That is always my first thought when I hear about heads being repatriated. I struggle to understand why anyone wants a reminder of this brutal, exploitive practice

– http://lindsaymitchell.blogspot.com/2011/05/returned-heads-reminders-of-brutal-past.html

Who is rewriting history?

… from early colonial New Zealand, when toi moko were collected as “curiosities”. The trade lasted for almost 100 years up to the 1860s, and peaked in Bay of Islands and Kapiti.

During that time, at least 800 toi moko and other remains made their way to Europe. It is estimated that about 500 remain outside New Zealand …

Are they going to be bought back one by one – with a further little rewrite of ‘history’ each time?
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May 14, 2011 9:27am
Other_Andy

Yvette (1,404) Says:
Who is rewriting history?
The Nomenclatura, the journalistas and the self styled intelligentsia
Teachers, ‘University lecturers’, politici, columnists……
Question the narrative and you are a racist!
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May 14, 2011 9:36am
Komata

It’s interesting to consider that the heads belong to slaves. Slaves from another tribe, that were ‘decorated’ by the slave owners before being ‘eliminated’.

Therefore, which tribe has claim to the remains? The ‘inscriber’ or the tribe from whom the slave was taken; given the lack of written records (Maori not having a written language), who can know?

In theory, if the ‘tribe of origin is known’ it could make for a very interesting confrontation and dispute about ownership between the ‘inscribers’ and the ‘tribe of origin’. As I said, theoretically. . .

A question though: Is it one particular trible that is riding this government-funded ‘Gravy train’ or are every tribe involved?

And O_A – you are SOO correct about the response to the question – ‘vested interests’ and agendas abound.

Yvette: Short answer: It’s another indication of ‘White Colonialist opression’ and confirms the rightness of Maori claims.
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May 14, 2011 9:49am
Inventory2

Transtasman asks two very pertinent questions about Trevor Mallard:

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2011/05/saturday-quote-14-may-2011.html

Is shock-blogging while the House is sitting a good use of public funds?
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May 14, 2011 9:51am
peterwn

Dom Post unfairly called Hone Hariwira a ‘wally’ this morning because of the antics of his mum. Surely she is the ‘wally’.
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May 14, 2011 9:55am
KH

For a while now it has been as expensive to go from Christchurch to Dunedin on Air NZ as it is to go to Australia.
Now Jetstar is going to fly to Dunedin. And all of a sudden decent fares are being offered by Air New Zealand.
As the State owned airline they have obviously worked out their responsibility to the public. Yes ?
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May 14, 2011 10:01am
hj

The Green Party of Aotearoa Says:
The United Nations is desperately in need of democratisation.

The addition of a United Nations parliamentary assembly is the single best step to that end because it would bring together elected representatives from all around the world.

The European Union is on the verge of recommending to the United Nations’ General Assembly that a parliamentary assembly be set up. I hope that New Zealand will be supporting this initiative.
…….
I have a problem with elected representatives who are elected on the agglomeration of a wide range of issues who then act in a the interests of a group of activists.
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May 14, 2011 10:07am
hj

Hardlining the Treaty: “Maori Believe” and “Maori do”.

The New Zealand Tertiary Education Union (TEU) Te Hautū Kahurangi o Aotearoa is the largest tertiary sector union in this country. Our membership currently sits at approximately 11,000 full-time equivalent members, covering all types of tertiary education institutions in the sector.

“key proposals in the Consultation Document are based on the flawed premise that the Westminster legal system takes precedence over tikanga Māori.”

“Māori have never relinquished tino rangatiratanga over the foreshore and seabed. For the Crown to propose a process that requires iwi and hapū to submit to yet another Crown-determined procedure to attempt to prove this makes a mockery of Article 2 of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. Further the Crown does not have the right to require its Treaty partner (tāngata whenua) to participate in a process that will be foisted upon them without adequate consultation, and without recognition of their status as the indigenous people of this country.

“What is wrong with the concept of public domain/takiwā iwi whānui?

‘Public domain’ as a concept is derived from the notion of terra nullius or the ‘empty land’, a construct used by colonising nations to justify according themselves sovereignty of lands occupied by indigenous people. In the context of this proposal, the notion of ‘public domain’ creates a fiction that no-one ‘owns’ it. This is contrary to tikanga – under tikanga unless the whenua belongs to someone, that person cannot be tāngata whenua. An individual obtains their rights to ‘belong’ to particular places through tikanga and by virtue of whakapapa – and whakapapa cannot be extinguished, either by legislation or by any other actions that a government might wish to invoke. These whakapapa links also imply a responsibility – to protect and preserve the environment and resources for future generations. The ‘public domain/takiwā iwi whānui’ proposal effectively disregards this relationship.
In discussing customary title from the perspective of the Westminster legal system and definitions, the Crown inherits the ideology of a constitutional structure that still largely derives from a world-view that produced concepts such as terra nullius. This concept presupposes that land deemed ‘empty’ – that is, uncultivated – should be regarded as un-owned, leaving it free for the colonising nation (or today, the Crown) to exert their ownership. To suggest therefore that the most ‘elegant’ solution to the issue of the foreshore and seabed is to declare it ‘un-owned’, and convert it’s status to public domain/takiwā iwi whānui, and then provide the Crown with powers of regulation, falls short of a just and fair solution to the foreshore and seabed situation.
http://teu.ac.nz/2010/04/submission-on-the-review-of-the-%E2%80%98foreshore-and-seabed-act-2004/
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May 14, 2011 10:19am
TripeWryter

Life in Taranaki:

“A man who kicked his pregnant partner in the stomach “like a rugby ball” screaming he wanted to kill the baby has been sent to jail.

“Toani Mark James, 24, appeared in the New Plymouth District Court yesterday to be sentenced on charges of wounding with intent, assault with intent to injure and breaking a protection order.

“Judge Allan Roberts said James was a recidivist violent offender who had numerous convictions for assaulting his partner.

“The court heard on October 22 last year James had come home drunk and woken his partner, who was four months pregnant, by punching her hard in the arm.

“He told her he had a dream the child she was carrying wasn’t his.

“James pushed her off the bed and their two-year-old son came into the room and told James to “leave my mummy alone”.

“Undeterred James again pushed his partner on the back of the head and she fell to the ground.

“”You kicked her in the stomach which your partner described as like kicking a rugby ball,” Judge Roberts said. “You said it’s not my baby so I might as well kill it.””

“James then put his hand over his partner’s mouth and followed her outside, trying to prevent her from calling the police.

“Defence counsel Turitea Bolstad said James was keen to improve the relationship with his partner, who was in court to support him.

“James was sentenced to two years in prison and given a first strike warning.”

And she still sticks by him.

A policeman I interviewed once, who dealt in family violence, said: “I never get used to the punishment some of thse women taken from these guys.”
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May 14, 2011 10:22am
tristanb

@TW
I’m sure the judge thinks after two years he’ll be a functioning member of society!

This guy needs to be locked up for good. And it’s very sad to see the partner defending him – obviously she thinks this is how men are supposed to act.

Here’s another drastically short sentence:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/5003424/Drink-drivers-families-friends-held-to-blame
Royland McCann gets 4 years for killing an innocent 23 year old with his SUV.
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May 14, 2011 10:34am
Komata

hj

A United Nations-seated ‘World Parliament’ proposal from the Greens? Surprised? Don’t be – the socialists are very determined and if they can’t use climate change to achieve this end, then there are other routes which can be followed by the likes of Comrades Locke and Norman et al.

And doesn’t it sound SO very, very reasonable?

Rust, never sleeps. . .
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May 14, 2011 10:36am
Manolo

Did Obama have a taste for porn?

Extensive Porn Stash Reportedly Found in Bin Laden Compound

A stash of pornography was found in the Pakistani compound of Usama bin Laden raided last week by Navy SEALs.
The pornography taken from the compound, first reported by Reuters, is said to have included modern, electronically recorded video and is described as fairly extensive. But officials told Reuters they did not know if the terror leader acquired the porn himself or even viewed it.
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May 14, 2011 10:50am
Viking2

Nah, that would be for his three wives. I mean, imagine being a lady and waking up next to that pig faced piece of shit.
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May 14, 2011 10:54am
Viking2

The Ultimate Racist Calls ordinary kiwi’s Racist.
Time for an election to remove these scum.

Turia scorns The Costal Coalition

Saturday, 14, May, 2011 10:05AM

The Coastal Coalition is offended at being labelled a fringe organisation by Tariana Turia.

In a Taranaki Daily News article the Maori Party co-leader has lumped the group in with the National Front and the Right Wing Resistance Movement.

Spokeswoman Muriel Newman says the Coalition is a grassroots organisation of tens of thousands of New Zealanders from all walks of life, and of all races.

Muriel Newman says there is nothing racist about the Coastal Coalition in any shape or form.
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May 14, 2011 10:55am
Ender

I would like to ask how many of us here have read at least the summary of recommendations from the Law Commission’s review of the Misuse of Drugs Act and what people’s opinions are on them. I know drug reform isn’t exactly a pet of right wingers but nonetheless I’d like some feedback.

Personally I think it’s a shame the findings of such respected people (an Honourable Justice, a PhD, an Emeritus Professor QC, another QC and another Professor) are for the most part ignored.

One thing that really got my goat was the Police coming out one day after the review was tabled in the house saying they will not support any sort of ‘social dealing’ warning system. Last time I checked it was the job of the Police to enforce the law, not to have a say on how to make the law.
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May 14, 2011 10:57am
hj

I’d say the racists are the ones who believe they hold a higher status and greater rights to a place due to a blood line to an inhabitant who lived there a few hundred years before anyone else.
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May 14, 2011 11:01am
magic bullet

Komata

You don’t seem to realise that for the most part, political parties in the western world are looking to establish a system of world government based on federalised regional/linguistic blocks. There will be an English-speaking Union, the African Union, the European Union (which Russia may become part of) and an Asian Union. A global government is the only long-term way of avoiding a nuclear conflagration, and the only way of using the remaining resources of the world rationally. It will be instituted gradually (as the trends have shown over the last 40 years). But the final push to end Nationalism will be instituted upon some dramatic pretext. It’s hard to say what this might be. It will have to be very big and scary.
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May 14, 2011 11:23am
hj

A global government is the only long-term way to avoiding a nuclear conflagration, and the only way of using the remaining resources of the world rationally.
….
When countries establish a balance between their populations and the environment and resources they won’t want to go to war. Ideas like world government only work if they have the populous behind them. Thinking of the UN and their desire for a world wide ban on smacking “we 10 experts in our field”….disagreed with the “ground breaking” Otago Multi disciplinary Health and Development Study which took the unprecedented step of detailed monitoring of 1000 children from infancy to adulthood.
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May 14, 2011 11:37am
reid

Update on Fukushima.
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May 14, 2011 11:45am
hj

MB

It will be instituted gradually (as the trends have shown over the last 40 years). But the final push to end Nationalism will be instituted upon some dramatic pretext. It’s hard to say what this might be. It will have to be very big and scary.
……
So the Greens are an anti- nationalist party who believe in open borders and have little commitment to quality of life and sustainability?:

Anti-immigration feeling has no place in the Green party Immigration and Population policies released today, Green MP Keith Locke says.
http://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/greens-counter-peters-welcoming-immigration-policy
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May 14, 2011 11:47am
reid

The whole point of cloud computing
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May 14, 2011 12:09pm
reid

The bank seemed to count on the unwillingness or inability of federal regulators to stop them — and when called to Washington last year to explain their behavior, Goldman executives brazenly misled Congress, apparently confident that their perjury would carry no serious consequences. Thus, while much of the Levin report describes past history, the Goldman section describes an ongoing? crime — a powerful, well-connected firm, with the ear of the president and the Treasury, that appears to have conquered the entire regulatory structure and stands now on the precipice of officially getting away with one of the biggest financial crimes in history.
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May 14, 2011 12:14pm
grumpyoldhori

It was a bloody disgrace that the senior officers of the 22nd battalion did not relief Colonel Andrew VC of his command and stay on hill 107.
Other ranks were left after the officers had pulled out, that should never have happened.

Had an Uncle who took part in the 28th attack on Maleme who always had the question, why did they attack so late, now we know, a politician who was not up to the job was given command, and made a complete balls up of it.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5003191/Officer-breaks-rank-over-the-Battle-of-Crete
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May 14, 2011 12:17pm
Viking2

Has the National Party become the de facto National Party?

National’s Plan to Bend the Rules Threatens Democratic Process

Sunday, 10 April 2011, 4:05 pm
Press Release: Coastal Coalition

The Coastal Coalition is alarmed at the ramifications of Treaty Negotiations Minister, Chris Finlayson’s latest move to change Parliament’s rules. The changes he is proposing would enable more that 20 Treaty of Waitangi settlement bills to be fast-tracked into law before the election. This would be achieved by allowing unrelated settlements to be included in an “omnibus” bill so that several can be enshrined in law at the same time.

http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=990&sid=2b3d5bbe1a7916b1256668158fa6aa46&p=35715#p35715
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May 14, 2011 12:30pm
Viking2

Coastal Coalition says Maori Party has no moral authority to lead racial equality debate

The Coastal Coalition is dismissing claims being made by the Maori Party co-leader Tariana Turia that it is a fringe or racist organisation that her political party wants to lead a racial equality debate against.

“The Coastal Coalition is a grass roots movement of tens of thousands of New Zealanders from all walks of life, of all political persuasions, and of all races , who fundamentally believe in one law for all New Zealanders”, Coastal Coalition spokesman Dr Muriel Newman said today. “The Maori Party has fewer members than the Coastal Coalition and is itself a fringe and racist organisation that just happened to make it into Parliament.”

http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=990&sid=2b3d5bbe1a7916b1256668158fa6aa46&p=35715#p35715
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May 14, 2011 12:30pm
rosscalverley

Something that Mr Farrar has missed (despite i being sent to his Facebook account)

http://www.voxy.co.nz/politics/ournz-party039s-kelvyn-alp-contest-te-tai-tokerau-election/5/90006

Kelvyn Alp is no stranger to Maori issues having used a Maori passport issued by “The Maori Government of Aotearoa” twice in 2001 to enter the Solomon Islands. The then Labour Government, quick to bring an end to the facilitation of the passport, is said to have threatened to pull much needed aid from the Solomon Islands.

Kelvyn is also set to target what he called the fiasco surrounding the issues related to Te Tiriti O Waitangi 1840 and The Declaration of Independence 1835. He says “it’s pretty clear cut what should have been in place. Not only are the devious practices and sleight of hand tactics of the so-called “crown” entity responsible, but also the pathetic nature of some Maori that have in effect, sold their souls and dragged their people down with them”.

He further states “If there is one thing I do know for certain, the whole Maori versus Non-Maori myth is nothing more than a perpetrated action to ensure a continued divide. Anyone trying to play that card is quite frankly off their rockers. If you want to know the name of the real enemy then you need look no further than the crown.

When asked what he had to say to anyone that would question his not being from the area he is to contest, he replied “I believe all representatives to date have been from the area, so how has that worked out for you all so far? You either want solutions or you want egos. I am not aligned to any particular Hapu or Iwi, so can serve all equally. I also know probably more about the system and how it really operates than those that will also contest”.

He says his white skin means nothing to anyone with half a brain and the ability to think. “The system has no skin colour, yet because it was rammed down your throats by “white men”, you will naturally believe it’s the white man’s fault. That is so far off the mark, those that hold that view have left the planet. The system is the enemy and we all suffer from that common enemy. Unfortunately, all of your representatives to date just don’t get it, so how the hell are they going to help you?”

“It’s about time this country grew up and admitted that not only is it in one hell of a legal mess in terms of the “crown” position, but also needs to come clean to the rest of the nation as to the divide and conquer tactics that have been employed for so many years to conceal the truth” Mr. Alp also says this is about what is right and what needs to be brought to the public attention.

He says he looks forward to the support of all intelligent Maori that will now finally have the opportunity to see the talk walked and not the continuation of lip service as has been evident to date.

OURNZ Party’s other interim Co-leader is Rangitunoa Black.

Website: http://www.ournz.net.nz
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May 14, 2011 12:32pm
reid

grumpy it was a fairly elementary mistake of battlefield tactics wasn’t it. I wonder if the fact it was their first major encounter is the key.
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May 14, 2011 12:32pm
Viking2

Hey Grumpy. See what I posted here this morning.

Viking2 (4,030) Says:
May 14th, 2011 at 9:40 am

Viking2 (4,024) Says:
May 14th, 2011 at 9:36 am

Well none of the issues in Don’s letter are new.
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May 14, 2011 12:33pm
Viking2

At here Grumpy

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/05/hilarious-6.html
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May 14, 2011 12:37pm
reid

Good to see Fran is channeling my thoughts. The plan is working.
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May 14, 2011 12:51pm
reid

A top military intelligence official has said the discredited dossier on Iraq’s weapons programme was drawn up “to make the case for war”, flatly contradicting persistent claims to the contrary by the Blair government, and in particular by Alastair Campbell, the former prime minister’s chief spin doctor.

In hitherto secret evidence to the Chilcot inquiry, Major General Michael Laurie said: “We knew at the time that the purpose of the dossier was precisely to make a case for war, rather than setting out the available intelligence, and that to make the best out of sparse and inconclusive intelligence the wording was developed with care.”

Are the people who said here at the time, that there actually were WMD’s in Iraq, ready to admit their opinion at that time was that of a useful idiot? Or not quite yet? Maybe next time?

Let’s not even address the question of why the politicians of the day cooked the intelligence. That would be wrong, to look into why they might have been wanting to do that. What was happening back then in the world, to make them want to falsify the case?

Petty revenge from Bush for his dad? C’mon. UK/US don’t go to war for that.

So what could it have been.

Let’s not ask that, cause it didn’t happen. There were WMDs. This guy is just lying and making it up.
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May 14, 2011 1:09pm
TripeWryter

Grumpyoldhori:

This is not to disagree with you, but men such as Hargest and Andrew, VC, got their jobs because in 1939-40 the New Zealand Army went from about 1500 Regulars and thousands more Territorials to over 100,000 men in less than a year.

So the leaders had to be found from somewhere. Hargest, Kippenberger, and another whose name I forget were available and deemed most suitable. I don’t think you could call Brigadier Hargest a political appointment, because he was a National Party MP.

These men were all Territorials, though they had been in action in WW1. There was no-one to lead them, which is why Freyberg’s offer to the Government solved all sorts of problems — as well as his career, because he had been retired from the British Army in 1935.

They had no idea of the kind of war they were heading into. Neither did many of their men. They were a citizen army, after all. I’ve talked to veterans of the time who described being issued with WW1 uniforms when they enlisted in 1939 — you can see them in photos of the various formations parading though the cities on their way to Egypt and the UK. One guy told me he’d drawn a tunic with bullet holes in it from WW1. Its previous owner had copped a burst of machine-gun fire across his chest.

Major-General Thomas would be right when he says that Andrew and Hargest were fighting a battle that neither recognised. They would not be alone. They and their men had only recently encountered panzers and Stuka dive-bombers in Greece, and an enemy that was quite ruthless.

So paratroopers was something new to them, as well, although I once had a work colleague who said he and his platoon accounted for about 50 paratroopers as they floated to the ground. “Easier than shooting ducks,” he said.

‘Whisky Les’ Andrew (he later became a brigadier) won the undying admiration of his men for his standing up to the British Command in Cairo over the British Military Police. Your uncle might have talked about it, but in my conversations with men in the 2nd (NZ) Division, British ‘Red Hats’ were hated more than the Afrika Korps by ‘colonial’ soldiers — i.e., New Zealanders and Australians especially, Indians, South Africans, Rhodesians.

Andrew told the British Command that if the MPs did not stop singling out his men then he would set his troops on to them.

He also got Freyberg, VC, to order that New Zealand soldiers could be arrested/detained by New Zealand MPs.
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May 14, 2011 1:24pm
TripeWryter

To follow on …

Some of the early commanders made way for younger officers, including General Thomas, who was a battalion commander (i.e., lieutenant-colonel) at age 23. The youngest in the New Zealand Army, from memory.
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May 14, 2011 1:26pm
big bruv

Is D4J in Sydney this week?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10725573

I will never understand why two adults have to keep using their kids as a weapon to attack each other, I do not care how much you may hate each other you have to work it out for the benefit of the kids.

Morons who hold up traffic on the harbour bridge deserve no sympathy from any of us.
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May 14, 2011 1:30pm
Brian Harmer

Other_Andy at 9:36 wrote:
“The Nomenclatura, the journalistas and the self styled intelligentsia
Teachers, ‘University lecturers’, politici, columnists……
Question the narrative and you are a racist!”

Pol Pot had a scarily similar list. I am obviously a “class enemy”. Looks like I’m for the chop when Other_Andy comes to power.
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May 14, 2011 1:45pm
grumpyoldhori

Yes a choice of targets of a British MP or a German first would not have been hard for a lot of Kiwis or Aussies.

But it boils down to this, did Hargest do the right thing in not relieving Andrew of his command ? did the senior Company commanders( if the 2ic was in the rear) do the right thing in not going over Andrew’s head to have him relieved with the senior Company commander taking over ?

One glance at the map showed that Hill 107 had to be held to stop the Germans landing troops at their leisure.
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May 14, 2011 1:55pm
Yvette

From yet another item on stuff.co –
The return of sacred Maori remains is another step towards putting a barbaric colonial trade to rest, academics say.
Maika Hill 14|05|11 Fairfax

Why “barbaric colonial trade” rather than “barbaric Maori trade” or “barbaric Maori/Euroean trade”

Tattoo specialists would study the distinctive moko designs to decipher which area they come from so they could eventually be returned for sacred burial, Herewini said.

When some “Slaves were deliberately tattooed and beheaded when carved faces became a commodity what would have been the moko tattoed? – the slave’s [if they had a whakapapa], the slave’s owner’s moko, or just any old thing because it was being done to be traded?
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May 14, 2011 3:35pm
rosscalverley

Why are you gentlemen fighting yesterday’s battles? Why not fight today’s battles?
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May 14, 2011 3:45pm
reid

Why “barbaric colonial trade” rather than “barbaric Maori trade” or “barbaric Maori/Euroean trade”

Good spotting Yvette. Labels are very important in establishing propaganda memes, as academics especially leftist ones, well understand. As you suggest, why is it that the other part of the willing two-way bargain, the part that actually “manufactured” the object in the first place then willingly sold it, have no blame attached to it?

Shame it clearly didn’t occur to the repeater to follow up that press release with a question or two to the source. Ah well, that is only what they are supposed to be doing for a living, so I suppose, what else does one expect, from today’s MSM?
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May 14, 2011 3:59pm
Rex Widerstrom

Ender asks:

I would like to ask how many of us here have read at least the summary of recommendations from the Law Commission’s review of the Misuse of Drugs Act

I have and when I have time I intend to blog at length on them and on an excellent piece of research (not by me I might add) on Drug Courts and why they should be introduced in NZ.

I know drug reform isn’t exactly a pet of right wingers but nonetheless I’d like some feedback.

Surely you can’t be suggesting that many self-professed right wingers selectively promote only those freedoms with which they agree?! 😯 /sarcasm

Last time I checked it was the job of the Police to enforce the law, not to have a say on how to make the law.

Interesting issue… defence often express opinions on defence policy and so forth. I think police have a place in commenting upon the law but I’d hope politicians see them for what they are – just another interest group, not some fount of superior knowledge.
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May 14, 2011 4:16pm
Manolo

Here we go again: grumpyoldhori extolling the virtues of a “magnificent” Maori past, but unable to see the misery prevalent among his own people: the levels of violence, gangsterism, child neglect, and abuses of all kind.

As any other Labour supporter he advocates more money from the state, more bureaucracy and quangos in a vain attempt to solve these problems. He will, however, reject personal responsibility as a cause. It’s all the fault of the system, the colonialists, never the “opressed” individuals involved.
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May 14, 2011 4:24pm
reid

I know drug reform isn’t exactly a pet of right wingers but nonetheless I’d like some feedback.

As a right winger personally I think the only way you can deal with drugs is to remove the market and that means making available for free.

This would cause international angst especially from the US but lets assume for the sake of argument that issue could be managed, without detriment to trade or travel for our citizens.

There is a fine line if you make drugs legal, between thereby removing the market, and encouraging people to uptake and this is what opponents focus upon – that it would encourage.

This to me is not inevitable if you pay due care to the design of the policy, but if anyone here thinks it is inevitable, then pray tell why.

The desire for drugs like sex will never disappear no matter how much “education” is put out there. It’s just human nature to want to partake, from about the age of 13 on. Most people start partaking from 18 on. I’m not suggesting we should allow 13 year olds to do it, I’m saying its human nature to want to do so.

How the hell else are you going to remove the criminal element from the vast profit. Drugs are second only to arms in international trade market value, that’s how big they are. Doesn’t that fact say something to those who think by better surveillance and tougher enforcement we can eliminate them? I mean look around. Just here in NZ, how many decades have the police conducted helicopter raids against growers. Has it done anything to reduce the availability? Etc.

So clearly, enforcement is not working.

Definition of insanity is doing the same thing but expecting a different result.
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May 14, 2011 4:33pm
reid

And frankly since conservatives claim to be realists, this view which is in many conservatives, surprises me.

BTW, re the uptake, I can’t argue that making it available is not going to produce any uptake and I’m not. I realise my words implied that but what I mean is, benefit of getting rid of the profits for gangsters, outweighs any untick in the uptake, and there are various ways as I said, that you limit that. You can also plan for it and deal with it by minimising as much as possible, if and when it happens.
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May 14, 2011 4:43pm
TripeWryter

To Ross Calverley:

My dear mother would never agree with your label that I am a ‘gentleman’, but thanks, anyway.

GOH and I are not fighting battles, yesterday or otherwise. We’re simply having an amicable, harmless discussion about some events that happened in 1941. I knew and worked with some of the participants when I was younger.

So far as I can tell, no spears are being thrown, we’re not calling each other names, no venom is being spat … we’re just engaging in a harmless pastime.

No-one has to read it. As Ms Bright would say: “Just scroll past.”

Cheers
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May 14, 2011 5:20pm
hj

Interresting to see how CERA is working out. They have been giving the hurry up to building owners where insurers and owners can’t agree.
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May 14, 2011 5:29pm
publicwatchdog

Seen this ‘Kiwibloggers’?

WHAT UTTER CRAP!!!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10725551

Editorial: NZ’s culture of honesty one to be cherished

Corruption is foreign to New Zealand’s government, we believe.

The belief is so deeply ingrained in this country that we instinctively doubt an accusation such as that levelled against the Government this week over the ministerial vehicle fleet replacement.

…….

In any other country there would be that perception, but here? We are blessedly confident in the probity of our public service. The country rates close to zero on international measures of corruption and local industry representatives who deal abroad say we do not realise how lucky we are.
………….

No country can be too vigilant against corruption. If this is one of the world’s least corrupt places, it is at risk of assuming too much. Corruption, after all, is not completely unknown here.
………………..
Exceptions are sufficiently rare to prove the rule: we retain a culture of honesty in public life that we ought never to take for granted.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

THE NZ ‘CORRUPTION REALITY CHECKLIST’!

If New Zealand is supposed to be the ‘least corrupt country in the world’ (along with Singapore and Denmark, according to the 2010 Transparency International ‘Corruption Perception Index’ – then arguably we should be the most ‘transparent’?

http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results

Here are some quite specific points which clearly identify where NZ lacks genuine transparency.

If these were turned into ‘demands’ and achieved – in my view – there would be quite a transformation which is long-overdue.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

CORRUPTION REALITY CHECKLIST – NEW ZEALAND

1. Has NZ ratified the UN Convention Against Corruption? ……… NO

2. Does NZ have an independent anti-corruption body tasked with educating the public and PREVENTING corruption? ……. NO

3. Do NZ’s laws ensure transparency in the funding of candidates for elected public office and political parties at central government level? …………………. NO

4. Do NZ Members of Parliament have a ‘Code of Conduct’? NO

5. Do NZ Local Govt elected reps have a ‘Code of Conduct’? ……. YES

6. Is it an offence for NZ Local Govt elected reps to breach the ‘Code of Conduct’? ..NO
7. Is there a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Govt elected reps? …………………NO
8. Is there a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Central Govt staff responsible for procurement? ……………… NO

9. Is there a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Govt staff responsible for procurement? ………. NO

10. Is there a lawful requirement for details of ‘contracts issued’ – including the name of the contractor; scope, term and value of the contract to be published in NZ Central Govt Public Sector, and Local Govt (Council) Annual Reports so that they are available for public scrutiny?……. NO

11. Is it a lawful requirement that a ‘cost-benefit analysis’ of NZ Central Govt public finances be undertaken to substantiate that private procurement of public services previously provided ‘in-house’ is cost-effective for the public majority? ………NO

12. Is it a lawful requirement that a ‘cost-benefit analysis’ of NZ Local Govt public finances be undertaken to substantiate that private procurement of public services previously provided ‘in-house’ is cost-effective for the public majority? ………NO
13. Does NZ have a legally-enforcable ‘Code of Conduct’ for members of the NZ Judiciary? ……NO
14. Are all NZ Court proceedings recorded, and audio records made available to parties who request them?……………NO
15. Is there a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ Judicial ‘Register of Interests’? …. NO

16. Is there a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ ‘Register of Lobbyists’ at Central Govt Ministerial level? ………… NO
17. Is there a legal requirement at NZ Central and Local Govt level for a ‘post-separation employment quarantine ‘ period’ from the time officials leave the public service to take up a similar role in the private sector?………………NO
18. Is it a lawful requirement that it is only a binding vote of the public majority that can determine whether public assets held at NZ Central Govt or Local Govt level are sold; or long-term leased via Public-Private –Partnerships? …………………. NO

19. Is it unlawful in NZ for politicians to knowingly misrepresent their policies prior to election at central or local government level? …………………………. NO

20. Do NZ laws promote and protect individuals, NGOs and community-based organisations who are ‘whistleblowing’ against ‘conflicts of interest’ and corrupt practices at central and local govt level and within the judiciary? ……………………………. NO

Prepared by Penny Bright – for Transparency International 14th Conference 7/11/2010
IACC ID D – 1198 http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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May 14, 2011 5:41pm
reid

Prepared by Penny Bright – for Transparency International 14th Conference 7/11/2010

All I can say Penny is that, if you were one of the speakers, it must have been pretty mental.

Seriously, with respect to every single point you raise, so what? Cause reality is, Penny, look round the way the rest of the world operates, and we are pretty pure. That’s just the way it is.
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May 14, 2011 5:43pm
publicwatchdog

# reid (7,183) Says:
May 14th, 2011 at 5:43 pm

Prepared by Penny Bright – for Transparency International 14th Conference 7/11/2010

All I can say Penny is that, if you were one of the speakers, it must have been pretty mental.

Seriously, with respect to every single point you raise, so what? Cause reality is, Penny, look round the way the rest of the world operates, and we are pretty pure. That’s just the way it is.”
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Is that right ‘Reid’?

You just have NO idea – do you?

(Meant of course in a kindly, respectful way……….. 🙂

In my considered opinion, NZ has a form of ‘grand corruption’ which is ENDEMIC .

‘State capture’ – where vested interests get their way at the ‘policy’ level – before the legislation is passed.

Statutory ‘third party Public Watchdogs’ such as the Office of the Auditor-General and Ombudsman are specifically prohibited by statute from being involved at the ‘policy’ level.

So – who checks for corrupt ‘conflicts of interest’ at the policy level?

errrr…………. nobody.

Check out the role of ‘Regulatory Impact Statements / Reports’ and you can see how policy ‘analysts’ manage to intertwine those with vested interests not just into their ‘consultation’ processes – but as active participants in formulating proposed legislative change.

eg: The Auckland ‘$upercity’.

Check out the role of the ‘Committee for Auckland’…………..
(just for starters………..)

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.comn
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May 14, 2011 6:01pm
reid

You just have NO idea – do you?

No, I don’t Penny.

So – who checks for corrupt ‘conflicts of interest’ at the policy level?

erm…

we do? You know, via elections and all that stuff.

Check out the role of ‘Regulatory Impact Statements / Reports’ and you can see how policy ‘analysts’ manage to intertwine those with vested interests not just into their ‘consultation’ processes – but as active participants in formulating proposed legislative change.

eg: The Auckland ‘$upercity’.

Check out the role of the ‘Committee for Auckland’…………..
(just for starters………..)

Could you please just tell us what is the specific issue? (It’s not that corporate-sponsored mercenary raid on the SuperCity Town Hall I debunked last night again, is it? If so, don’t bother.)
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May 14, 2011 6:14pm
gravedodger

Peso Tarnish takes 90 odd lines to say that.
Stupid Bint.
The $50k was donated largely by those attending the FUNCTION AT the dealership premises and was topped up to the eventual total by the principal of the company.
The dealership had no connection to the fleet purchase beyond the commonality of the brand BMW.

Corruption? piss off and discus the awful ratbag conniptions between WRP, donations, sanctury from the Clarke government then canvas the Field corruption again shielded by the wonderful paragons of the Bilious Bitch Team.
Its not that the shit being flung doesn’t stick to John Key, your problem is, the shit vapourises in your hand , bit like a handgrenade really
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May 14, 2011 6:21pm
Nookin

I see on the news that there is a proposal to increase rates in Auckland so that vulnerable buildings can be upgraded to meet earthquake standards. Many of these will be owned by large corporations. I think it is a wonderful idea. Another 4.9% on top of the currently proposed 4.9% can easily be absorbed. I mean, why should the owners have to pay so that Aucklanders can feel proud of their heritage builings. It will mean that these corporations can get on with the job of making money. Waddaya think Pen ?
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May 14, 2011 6:41pm
reid

I see on the news that there is a proposal to increase rates in Auckland

Yea behold the infinite wisdom of the lefty thinking as per Len’s promulgation of this at this time.

Let’s see.

In the middle of the GFC when the country is poor as a church mouse and things are looking quite tricky in a number of areas, Len thinks it’s a good idea to float the idea of this, in case it happens again in another seismically inactive area (Auckland).

Now let’s just repeat this. The context is serious, and chance is remote, but leader of Auckland decides it makes sense to ask everyone in Auckland to pay another thou or so, in order that something remote, is mildly mitigated?

I mean sure, in the fulness of time, look at it. But to make this the vital matter of urgency he has made it, in the context of everything that is happening, isn’t something a first year economics student would do.

What. A. ~~Moron.~~ Silly mental.
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May 14, 2011 6:50pm
reid

Commercial tenants forced out of Christchurch’s central business district (CBD) by earthquakes want to get back within two years but do not want to be in office space higher than three levels, a survey has found.

The survey found 76 percent of central city tenants would consider returning and would want to be back within two years.

The Colliers International survey also showed an overwhelming majority did not want to go into high-rise buildings and would go no higher than three levels.

Safety was paramount among tenants when considering office space, followed by rental cost and amenities. Car parking and “green” considerations ranked lowest, the survey showed.

Isn’t that interesting. That no-one, appawentwy, gives a fwying fuck about the enviwonment.

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww,

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Still, that’s what it says, doesn’t it.

I suppose they’ll say that’s only the opinion of the nasty people who pay for the accommodation, and the workers think otherwise.

The relevance of the fact that by definition, the worker isn’t the decision-maker, completely of course escaping them, as usual.
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May 14, 2011 7:14pm
Viking2

Actually the insurance companies should rate the buildings according to risk and then overly risky would be insurance rated out of the tenants reach. Building owners would have to fix the problem or have no tenants.
Council have building codes to uphold so with those teo jobs being done as they should be those old building would be fixed or destroyed.
Seems a sensible solution to me.
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May 14, 2011 7:25pm
Sofia

Penny Bright
There a couple of books by Dale Breckenridge Carnegie which you could perhaps benefit from reading.
Meant of course in a most kindly, respectful way … 🙂
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May 14, 2011 7:48pm
Tauhei Notts

To Grumpyoldhori and Trypewriter;
Your intelligent comments on this blog about a battle 70 years ago are what makes this blog the best on the net.
Your comments are so good and accurate that I hope you are both able to enjoy a delightful big glass of a wonderful single malt before bedtime.
I have read widely, my wife would say voraciously, about the Crete battle and for years my bullshit detectors have been placed on alert. The angry hori, by reference to that piece in today’s Dominion, has brought some clarity to me. As we stand about every year on Anzac Day and hear about the New Zealanders on Crete, I have always felt that somebody has been obscuring the truth. Angry hori, I would like to be able to call you “Me old mate”. Thank you for bringing that article to our attention. Here in the Waikato I get two morning papers delivered to my home and neither had that article in them.
Hey, and the Greek people’s reverence for the New Zealanders’ performance; I have had it translated from the Hellenic language on several occasions; it is humbling.
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May 14, 2011 7:54pm
Rodders

Evening Penny.

On your 20 questions, NZ scored 1/20. In comparison, how do Australia and The UK score?
(I understand that the UK is a ‘YES’ on #19 – refer to Phil Woolas)
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May 14, 2011 8:25pm
nasska

A wedding occurred, just outside Cavan in Ireland. To keep
tradition going, everyone got pissed and the bride’s and
groom’s families had a storming rage and begin wrecking
the reception room and generally kicking the crap out of
each other.

The police get called in to break up the fight.

The following week, all members of both families appear in
court. The fight continues in the court room until the
Judge finally brings calm with the use of his hammer,
shouting “Silence in Court.”

The court room goes silent and Paddy (the best man)
stands up and says, “Judge.. I was the best man at the
wedding and I think I should explain what happened.”

The Judge agrees and asks Paddy to take the stand. Paddy
begins his explanation by telling the court that it is
traditional in a Cavan wedding that the Best Man gets the
first dance with the Bride.

The judge says “OK.”

“Well”, said Paddy, “After I had finished the first dance,
the music kept going, so I continued dancing to the second
song, and after that the music kept going and I was dancing
to the third song.. when all of a sudden the Groom leapt
over the table, ran towards us and gave the Bride an
unmerciful kick in her privates.”

The Judge instantly responded… “Wow.. that must have hurt!”

Paddy replies “HURT!.. He broke three of me fingers and I
couldn’t hit anybody properly during the entire wedding fight!”

######
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May 14, 2011 8:37pm
Rodders

nasska – would you like that ticket to hell to be sent by courier or fastpost? 🙂
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May 14, 2011 8:52pm
Nookin

If nz ever gets 20/20 the wheels of government and business wil grind to a halt. The courts will be full of litigation brought by people alleging fanciful conflicts of interest- just as the supermarket chains are such diligent upholders of the district plan– particularly when a rival wants to start up.

The Brights and the Siemers of this world will be selling templates for recusal applications and no government contracts will be let unless under supervision of an overseas anti-corruption officer in case the nz equivalent shagged the managing director’s gardener’s wife at the company christmas party.

Lawyers will make a mint (yahoo) but it will take 18 months to let a contract to seal the footpath.

No roads or footpaths outside properties owned by councillors will be formed or sealed for fair of allegations of corruption. But that is all ok. There will be full employment because we will need thousand of register keepers, specialised divisions for OIA requests and 10,000,000 trees planted. Godzone country at last .
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May 14, 2011 9:00pm
LabourDoesntWork

Was reminded tonight why I no longer watch the 6 o’clock news. In the 3 minutes that I could tolerate it was approximately 2m55s of the usual stupidity and ignorance.

They repeat some nonsense that Osama bin Laden, as a “religious” man, might not tend to look at porno …or whatever the heck it was they were saying. They would obviously be shocked to know that, in Islam, sex with female captives is allowed:

Quran 4:24 “And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands (as prisoners of war)”

QURAN 23:5-6 “…who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave girls, for these are lawful to them…”

Quran 33:50 “O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war,”

Yep, you guessed it: Osama bin Laden, as a good “religious” Muslim, kept at least one woman against her will for him to rape:

http://www.blacknews.com/pr/bin201.html (from 2007)

Maybe journos should get some edjumacashun before trying to school the public?
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May 14, 2011 9:12pm
nasska

A Saudi couple, Ahmed and Layla, preparing for their wedding, meet with their Mullah for counseling.

The Mullah asks if they have any last questions before they leave.

Ahmed asks,’We realize it’s tradition in Islam for men to dance with men, and women to dance with women.
But, at our wedding reception, we’d like your permission to dance together.’

‘Absolutely not,’ says the Mullah.’It’s immoral. Men and women always dance separately.’

‘So after the ceremony I can’t even dance with my own wife?’

‘No,’ answered the Mullah,’It’s forbidden in Islam.’

‘Well, okay,’ says Ahmed,’What about sex? Can we finally have sex?’

‘Of course!’ replies the Mullah,’Allahu Akbar!(GOD is great) Sex is OK within marriage, to have children!’

‘What about different positions?’ asks the man.

‘Allahu Akbar! Mafi Mushkila (no problem),’ says the Mullah.

‘Woman on top?’ Ahmed asks.

‘Sure,’ says the Mullah.’Allahu Akbar. Go for it!’

‘Doggy style?’

‘Sure! Allahu Akbar!’

‘On the kitchen table?’

‘Yes, yes! Allahu Akbar!’

‘Can I do it with all my four wives together on rubber sheets with a bottle of hot oil, a couple of vibrators,

leather harnesses, a bucket of honey and a porno video?’

‘You may indeed.. Allahu Akbar!’

‘Can we do it standing up?’

‘No, absolutely not!’ says the Mullah.’

‘Why not?’ asks the man.

‘Because that could lead to dancing!’
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May 14, 2011 9:26pm
reid

Yep, you guessed it: Osama bin Laden, as a good “religious” Muslim, kept at least one woman against her will for him to rape:

http://www.blacknews.com/pr/bin201.html (from 2007)

Maybe journos should get some edjumacashun before trying to school the public?

Or alternately yourself LDW?

I mean, crikey.

I assume you think UBL is the “one.”

i.e.

he did all that stuff, Yemen, USS Cole, WTC Fertilizer bomb attempt, 911 et al?

OK.

So if he wuz jst a cheap pervert how cud he huv dun tht + how cum this nvr cum out b4?
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May 14, 2011 9:32pm
Rodders

That’s a fatwa for you as well, nasska 😀
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May 14, 2011 9:32pm
TripeWryter

To Tauhei Notts:

I’ll take your comments as a compliment, and thanks. I’m no historian, but I, too, have read a bit, and I’ve always been an avid eavesdropper when war veterans talked, usually among themselves.

The story, by Tim O’Donoghue, was on the stuff website this morning, so you might still be able to find it. Also, Ric Stevens, production edtor of The Press, had a stirring defence of Andrew, VC, and Hargest a week or so back.
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May 14, 2011 9:36pm
Other_Andy

LabourDoesntWork (151) Says:……
Porn..realy?
I wish that was the worst.
I bet they’ve never heard of the bacha bazi.
Or read the story of Aisha….
Muslims.
They have a rapist (Rayhanna bint ‘Amr ibn Khunaafa or Saffiya bint Huyyay Ibn Akhtab) and a child molester (Ai’sha bint Atiq ibn Uthman.) as their religious guru. They regard mohammed as a virtuous paragon, a perfect man, an exemplar of their ethics, their conduct, and try to emulate this exalted teacher.
Ah, the lame stream media.
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May 14, 2011 9:46pm
Lazybum

Manchester United Champions yet again, sweet 19.
Go Stoke, just kicked off in the FA Cup Final.
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May 15, 2011 2:02am

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