General Debate 18 June 2011

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hj

One Hundred and Thirty-one Million Reasons to Copenhagenize Christchurch

http://publicaddress.net/system/topic/3064/

Christchurch – mostly flat – was nicknamed ‘Cyclopolis’ in the early 20th century. In 1924 the city council’s motor inspector estimated that there were 40,000 cyclists in the city – half the population. A 1936 traffic census found 11,335 cyclists passed one corner of Cathedral Square between 8 a.m. and 5.30 p.m., a rate of 19 per minute. Christchurch was home to 50,000 of the 250,000 cycles in New Zealand in the late 1930s.
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/bicycles/1/4
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June 18, 2011 8:04am
hj

I notice that the people who advocate leaving town planning to market forces take no account of property rights to light and sunlight. When you build someone out you (effectively) relocate them geographically. An example of letting people do what they like might be demonstrated by Gloucester Towers In Chch. It was built through a loophole in the town plan leaving a tower block among villas (east of Canterbury Museum).
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June 18, 2011 8:12am
hj

One of the strange things about Christchurch (people used to say) was that the best real estate was on the west, near the airport rather than out by the sea @ Brighton….. Perhaps someone new something???
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June 18, 2011 8:17am
Rufus

HJ

I’m all for encouraging more ppl to cycle in Chch. It’s a great town to do it in.

However, we’d have to first sort out Chch’s maniacal drivers. They’re worse than I have encountered living in any other city, including London – no exaggeration.

I guess the flat, straight, wide streets encourages the hoons.

I was knocked off my bike last week – a car pulled across my path, and I had no time to brake. Straight over the handlebars. They didn’t even bother to get out of the car to check if I was ok. First time I’ve come off, but I have had many close shaves.

Sort out some decent cycle lanes, fix the earthquake-fissured roads up properly and we’ll talk again.
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June 18, 2011 8:20am
nasska

hj

Has any serious thought gone into the CBD that Christchurch may require when the ground stops shaking? Modern businesses are less dependent on being adjacent to one another & broadband has in many cases cut out the need for huge centralised offices.

Additionally any business previously located in the CBD will have already gone to the wall or adapted to another location. Many residents who have fled the quakes will not return.

All the rest of the country receive is emotional claptrap from the MSM & official “say nothing” waffle via politicians & officials. Have the residents had the opportunity to voice their visions for the future?
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June 18, 2011 8:24am
hj

East of Mandeville Street (Leslie Hills Drive?) has the ideal spatial arrangement for commercial premises (from memory).
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June 18, 2011 8:51am
starboard

Yes HJ..out west is superior , the ground consists of old Waimak riverbed and it is very stable. There is very little damage to property in an around the airport area. Its the place to buy..avonhead , burnside etc..good capital gains to be made there I feel…and its far away from the pond scum who reside in aranui …they generally cant afford the petrol to come over and cause havoc there so they just shit in their own backyards instead.
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June 18, 2011 8:53am
starboard

..anyone heard from Big Bruv ?
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June 18, 2011 8:54am
Pauleastbay

Chch’s maniacal drivers. They’re worse than I have encountered …………

Rufus

Absolutley agree..it is a point of honour for ChCh drivers to not to let you into a queue, not to let you into change lanes and none of the cars down there are sold with indicators
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June 18, 2011 8:58am
pdm

hj (1256) I haven’t been to Copenhagen (it is on the list though) but I have been to Amsterdam where there are thousands of cyclists. How about `Amsterdaming’ Chch with canals and of course a `Red Light District’ as a tourist attraction – even girls in lingerei in windows in the central city with little rooms to do the business.
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June 18, 2011 9:03am
Pete George

I’ve seen Big Bruv pop up occasionally lately (on The Standard last I think) but he’s been relatively quiet.

http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-15062011/#comment-340766

And here: http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/06/mt_crawford_prison-2.html#comment-843066
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June 18, 2011 9:13am
Pete George

starboard – I know we’ve disagreed a bit here (hey, I even disagree with myself sometimes), but I’m interested to know what range of people are interested in shaking up the old political establishment, regardless of ideological preferences.

I’m not fussed by left/right polarities anyway, but no matter which way a tree leans the dead wood needs to be shaken out. Our current politics is like a half dead tortured willow.

The cause is much bigger than individuals.
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June 18, 2011 9:25am
reid

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/5161158/Number-of-weddings-falls-to-all-time-low

The evil ones are winning.
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June 18, 2011 9:27am
Manolo

An interesting article on Luddites and wowsers:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/commentary/the-rise-of-the-green-wowser/story-e6frgd0x-1226076657891
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June 18, 2011 9:30am
starboard

PG , kiwis are too apathetic to change..I feel it would be an uphill battle ( and a lonely one ) the rot has set in and its too late…
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June 18, 2011 9:39am
starboard

heh good reading there Manolo..so true
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June 18, 2011 9:43am
Pete George

It’s certainly a hill to climb but it’s not lonely, support for it is growing.

I don’t think it’s too late to attack the rot, it’s at it’s most susceptible to being cleaned out.
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June 18, 2011 9:44am
Rodders

starboard @ 8.53am said “the pond scum who reside in aranui”

Is that where you would like to live?
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June 18, 2011 9:51am
dog_eat_dog

Reid, I’m not sure who you think the evil ones are, but people I know currently engaged are waiting until their jobs stabilize enough to know they’ll still have them in six months time, rather than paying for a wedding they can’t afford.
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June 18, 2011 9:58am
mikenmild

Should we be concerned about a declining marriage rate. Doesn’t seem to me that there’s much anyone can do about it – except get married! I’ve tried to help by getting married, twice.
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June 18, 2011 10:03am
starboard

geez rodders you never say anything nice to me..whats wrong with you? You are truly a nasty man with a small penis.
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June 18, 2011 10:04am
Pauleastbay

Starboard says:
………and its far away from the pond scum who reside in aranui ……………

And you can see why I continually bang on about the racist xenophobic wankers that live in Christchurch.

Sadly the above opinion is rife and one reason why Chch has so many socail problems
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June 18, 2011 10:05am
Rufus

@mikenmild 10:03

XD
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June 18, 2011 10:06am
Elaycee

@starboard… says: “….. the rot has set in and its too late..…”

Yup, it has. During a decade of stealth politics courtesy of dear leader, we saw the electorate influenced by the very worst of her socialist agenda – all courtesy of unaffordable bribes. For decades, the socialist’s usual trick at election time is to promise the world – all aimed at creating a class of voters who are totally dependent on the socialists for a hand out. This has happened for generations – older Kiwibloggers will remember Bill Rowling’s baby bonus and in more recent years it has been interest free student loans / WFF etc. Totally unaffordable promises but attractive election bribes for voters who think welfare can be a way of life.

So, as long as the electorate contains sufficient numbers of voters who like the idea of tax, tax, tax those who work for a living so they can receive welfare to support their bone idle lifestyle, the cycle will continue. Its only a question of the timing of the cycle – National comes in and sorts out the books and then the socialists return on a basket full of promised handouts and the coffers are emptied again.
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June 18, 2011 10:07am
Rodders

@Pauleastbay – and have a read of this filth from yesterday
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/06/general_debate_17_june_2011.html#comment-843346
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June 18, 2011 10:09am
Rufus

Pauleastbay – plenty of white pond scum around in Aranui too.

Starboard – the Riccarton area still has a relatively high crime rate – something to do with all those students in unsecured flats with lots of expensive, easily portable electronics lying around.

Agree generally with west vs east though.
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June 18, 2011 10:09am
Viking2

Lenders prepare for quake-hit residents to walk away
By Dene Mackenzie
5:30 AM Saturday Jun 18, 2011

New Zealand financial institutions are preparing for Christchurch residents to walk away from their debt, risking bankruptcy but believing they have nothing more to lose.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10732920

Serious issues for people here.
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June 18, 2011 10:13am
Manolo

The nefarious hand of comrade Clark: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/5158148/Helen-Clark-helps-free-activists
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June 18, 2011 10:21am
Black with a Vengeance

My heart goes out to all the well to do, back yard shitting, pond scum that live in Avonside, Dallington, Wainoni, Bexley, Sumner and Redcliffs.
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June 18, 2011 10:22am
AlphaKiwi

On Labour they’re saying that John Key wants to have youth rates up to age 24. I can’t believe anyone 20 or over could be considered worthy of lesser pay rates than those over 24.
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June 18, 2011 10:39am
wat dabney

Global Warming: follow the dirty money

http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2011/6/16/ideological-money-laundering.html
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June 18, 2011 10:40am
Pete George

This is the sort of product and company that should be promoted – probiotics in icecream:

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/business/165313/ice-cream-business-not-licked-despite-quake-hit

Blis have been struggling for years to develop an international market for a unique product. Delivering it with icecream is a great step forward – a good market would also be airlines – and it could become a significant exporter of local expertise with the right sort of assistance.

Remember the call for a knowledge economy? This is a prime example of what should be promoted.

(I have a very modest amount of shares in Blis that don’t motivate my highlighting this)
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June 18, 2011 10:41am
Elaycee

@alphakiwi says: “On Labour they’re saying that John Key wants to have youth rates up to age 24. I can’t believe anyone 20 or over could be considered worthy of lesser pay rates than those over 24.”

Don’t believe what you read from Labour. As usual, they never let the facts get in the way of their (preferred) version of events.

For the real oil, check out this:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5161057/PM-downplays-a-youth-rates-return
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June 18, 2011 10:46am
reid

Reid, I’m not sure who you think the evil ones are, but people I know currently engaged are waiting until their jobs stabilize enough to know they’ll still have them in six months time, rather than paying for a wedding they can’t afford.

Dog the evil ones are those deliberately attacking the institution of marriage via multi-pronged attacks on such other institutions as religion, which degrades it to a mere civil ceremony which by being made acceptable in many eyes thereby removes the gravitas it formerly had, in many people’s eyes, for who respects a civil authority. It’s not something I visit often, if at all. Not like a church, as religion used to be practiced only one or two short generations ago. That’s one prong.

Another prong is the way society is now designed, again in only one or two short generations, whereby it’s now necessary for both parents to work full time simply to maintain position let alone get ahead. Now that’s not a bad thing necessarily for working gives one pleasure and psychological balance in many many ways and all people should experience it, it’s just that women are the communicators of language and culture and if they don’t do it to their children, society is lessened thereby. Almost every mother I have ever worked with, would love to be home, were it possible, but it’s not.

Now you may choose to think all this is just the way it is and there is nothing sinister going on, or you may think that because this is part of the Communist Manifesto that it’s not really an accident, and it doesn’t really matter which side of the fence you are because either could in fact be the case, for all we actually know, evidence-wise.

It’s just that personally I see instances of behaviour all the time such as for example Hulun’s execrable undermining of suburbia by designing a law sold to the useful idiot brigade as a “human right” which allows brothels to be set up in the burbs. I don’t recall her explaining that part when she was selling it. Is that what we want? Yet if you protest, well it’s a human wight and you’re just a gweat big meanie. That’s what they do, large and small.

Another prong is of course gay marriage which she was forced to back down but only after pushing hard and long before realising it was simply a bridge too far so let’s call it civil union instead.

When I see things like that, I just wonder whether it is indeed only just all merely coincidental.
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June 18, 2011 10:47am
starboard

“National comes in and sorts out the books and then the socialists return on a basket full of promised handouts and the coffers are emptied again”

Yeah but the problem this time around Elaycee is that National have gone all gooey socialist and are carrying on dear leaders work…hulun would be proud off her son jonkey.
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June 18, 2011 10:47am
starboard

“My heart goes out to all the well to do, back yard shitting, pond scum that live in Avonside, Dallington, Wainoni, Bexley, Sumner and Redcliffs”

yes..they are the ones who provide the dollars so that the pond scum in the east can sit on their fat lazy arses all day smoking pot , drinking piss , beating their offspring and generally inhaling my oxygen which they dont deserve.
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June 18, 2011 10:50am
RightNow

TradeMe to be sold? I can’t see it getting anywhere near $700m again, but then someone did pay through the nose for Yellow Pages, you just need to find the right suckers.
“Two of the seven Fairfax businesses — the New Zealand Trade Me online business and the Australian broadcasting network — would be sold.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/incoherent-fairfax-faces-its-final-days/story-e6frg9if-1226077366398
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June 18, 2011 10:55am
Elaycee

@starboard says: “Yeah but the problem this time around Elaycee is that National have gone all gooey socialist and are carrying on dear leaders work…”

Have to agree in part, but I’ve been assured that the electorate will be given clear options (either pick a National Government or otherwise) in November and the hard medicine required for NZ to move ahead, will be tabled by National as part of their campaign. For sure, National will be depending on Key’s popularity to help push through these measures. Tough medicine is certainly required for us to sort out the books and Key is the logical catalyst for this to happen.
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June 18, 2011 10:57am
Put it away

Obamatards prepared to stand up and make their voices heard against those job-killing ATMs the president warned us about http://mrctv.org/blog/petition-ban-job-killing-atm-machines
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June 18, 2011 11:06am
flipper

Fairfax’s Stuff has reached its nadir.
Check out the photoshop treatment of the riot kiss….
The pits
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June 18, 2011 11:09am
Elaycee

There’s a very strong rumour here that Labour staffers have called in favours with their former colleagues at the state owned broadcaster, in an effort to keep developments relating to WhaleOil’s website expose off the small screen. Apparently there’s a concern this issue could undermine Labour’s credibility with the voter!

NEWSFLASH: Too late for that!

And, as its clear that Whale will release further info at his leisure, this will not ‘quietly go away’…
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June 18, 2011 11:22am
flipper

Elaycee… Yup.
When in a hole stop digging……
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June 18, 2011 11:34am
Put it away

What are you talking about flipper, it’s clearly a different shot of the same scene taken seconds before or after the well known one. Everything has moved between shots – guy, girl, cop, people in the background. Try engaging brain before commenting.
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June 18, 2011 11:37am
Manolo

Well done this man: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/crime/news/article.cfm?c_id=30&objectid=10732979
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June 18, 2011 11:41am
reid

Elaycee let’s hope the Minister of Broadcasting knows what to do here. Mustn’t interfere with editorial policy, goes both ways, doesn’t it.
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June 18, 2011 11:41am
starboard

“Sadly the above opinion is rife and one reason why Chch has so many socail problems”

..yes we also have many social problems as well.
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June 18, 2011 11:43am
starboard

Manolo (4,445) Says:
June 18th, 2011 at 11:41 am
Well done this man.

“But their best interest is to comply with the offender’s request and call 111 and let police do their jobs.”

..pftt..look what happened last time a shopkeeper was shot in sth akl and people called the police..the poor bastard was left to die on the floor of his shop as the cops waited 45 minutes to check the area…in the mean time pond scum walked in and out of the shop taking grog. Call the cops my ass…blow the pond scums head off, its gona teach them a lesson.
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June 18, 2011 11:50am
publicwatchdog

Howdy Kiwibloggers!

Seen this?

YOU TUBE: MUST SEE! ‘World Economy Collapse explained in 3 minutes’

– John Clarke and Bryan Dawe calculate the cost of the European debt crisis

– A comedy routine.

(But what’s happening is NOT funny!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyePCRkq620

John Clarke and Bryan Dawe calculate the cost of the European debt crisis

– A comedy routine. It may seemed hilarious but this is actually what’s happening. Without all the financial jargon, any layman can understand what is happening to the current economy crisis.

How can broke economies lend money to other broke economies who haven’t got any money because they can’t pay back the money the broke economy lent to the other broke economy and shouldn’t have lent it to them in the first place because the broke economy can’t pay back?”
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Have a LOVELY day 🙂

Cheers!

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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June 18, 2011 11:52am
Inventory2

Quite so Manolo; Jayesh Amin deserves a medal. All praise to him.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2011/06/that-man-deserves-db.html
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June 18, 2011 11:53am
Black with a Vengeance

yes..they are the ones who provide the dollars so that the pond scum in the east can sit on their fat lazy arses all day smoking pot , drinking piss , beating their offspring and generally inhaling my oxygen which they dont deserve.

________________________________________________________________________

And I’m sure they’re eternally grateful for the God like benevolence you show in sharing your oxygen.

Blessings be upon you.
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June 18, 2011 11:58am
reid

It may seemed hilarious but this is actually what’s happening.

Yeah we know Penny and your point is…?
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June 18, 2011 11:58am
Pete George

Comparing party manifestos….
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June 18, 2011 12:05pm
Elaycee

Geez – the blog blight now gets economic advice from Fred Dagg and the man behind the alter ego Sir Murray Rivers QC (retired).

Who next? Dame Edna?

God help Epsom.
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June 18, 2011 12:05pm
pdm

Today the Herald has a comments facility on a number of their stories.

Problem is comments are not published.

Is this normal?
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June 18, 2011 12:14pm
flipper

Fairfax’s nadir…..
One step at time for lamebrains such as “put it away…”
….
1.Go to Stuff.
(Not the first pix) …
2. Scroll down to ” VANCOUVER HOCKEY RIOT KISS MYSTERY”
3. Click
4. There you have Lyndon Hood’s (Scoop.co.nz claims ownership but Fairfax is now the publisher) photoshop treatment of “the kiss”.
5. Certainly a different presentation of the original
Sick!
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June 18, 2011 12:26pm
shady

Hey – ROB has outed himself at The Standard.

“G’day. My name is Anthony Robins and I’m an academic at the University of Otago. Yeah I know – how boring and predictable is that! I’ll be posting under my own name from now on. My opinions are my own, and are not endorsed by the University, the Labour party (of which I am a member), or anyone else. ”

Associate Professor, Computer Science.
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June 18, 2011 12:27pm
hj

The growth Ponzi scheme, part 1
“The underpinnings of the current financial crisis lie in a living arrangement — the American pattern of development — that does not financially suppport itself. The great experiment of suburbanization that America embarked on following World War II has no precedent in human history. As it enters its third generation, the flawed assumptions that were overlooked are now coming back to bite us in a cruel way. Like any Ponzi scheme, there is only one way this ends.”

“Following World War II, there are four ways that American cities have grown (we call these the Mechanisms of Growth). They are:

1. Government Transfer Payments
2. Transportation Spending
3. Debt
4. The Growth Ponzi Scheme ”

To financially sustain itself then, a city or town utilizing the American suburban development pattern and making this tradeoff must believe one of the following two assumptions to be true:

1. The amount of financial return generated by the new growth exceeds the long-term maintenance and replacement cost of infrastructure the public is now obligated to maintain, OR
2. The city will always grow in ever-accelerating amounts so as to generate the cash flow necessary to cover long-term obligations.”
http://newurbannetwork.com/news-opinion/blogs/charles-marohn/14876/growth-ponzi-scheme-part-1
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June 18, 2011 12:29pm
Pete George

Hey – ROB has outed himself at The Standard.

I’m pleased he’s done that. He’s seemed to me to been a reasonable dude beneath the party type propaganda.

I hope that by posting under his own name he’ll be more prepared to play to his intelligence rather than play to the baying crowd.
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June 18, 2011 12:35pm
starboard

“My name is Anthony Robins and I’m an academic ”

rates himself highly then…
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June 18, 2011 12:36pm
nasska

Elaycee

There is definitely something about Epsom but I can’t quite put my finger on it. Is there a lodestone, an insecure asylum, cheap aluminium foil, mescalin cacti growing wild?????

You owe it to yourself & your neighbours to find out what the attraction is. After all you already have Water woman & John Banks at the hustings. Who’s next?
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June 18, 2011 12:38pm
publicwatchdog

For the consideration of Pete George and the ‘Your New Zealand’ Party:

(In order to help get some constructive debate on the issues .
Any chance of that Elaycee? 🙂

Where does ‘Your New Zealand’ stand on the issue of fighting corruption and building a legislative framework for genuine ‘transparency’ ?

In my considered opinion as an ‘anti-corruption campaigner’ and someone who has attended two significant international anti-corruption conferences, NZ lacks genuine ‘transparency’, in a significant number of key areas.

Unless there is major legislative change – the ‘perception’ of New Zealand as the ‘least corrupt country in the world, (along with Denmark and Singapore according to Transparency International’s 2010 ‘Corruption Perception Index’ – will not match the ‘reality’.

To date – I note that you are still developing policies:
http://yournz.org.nz/principles.html

“Your NZ is a party of people, principles and action,
not of theoretical ideological policies,
that small parties can never implement.

Your NZ Principles:

the people and electorate come first (not the party)
positive politics
democratic principles
supporting the government of the day
(but reserving the right to oppose some policies)
for the good of the country
remaining humble in service

Our policy on policies

Once we build our party membership we will develop positions on some policies important to our electorates. Our List MPs will also seek input on national issues.

But these policies will be non-ideological, they will be flexible, they may change with changing situations, events and needs, and they may vary from electorate to electorate as different areas can have different priorities.

Radical? We say practical. We know some traditionalists say all parties must have policies to define themselves, set in concrete, to show what they stand for. But we are different. We define ourselves by putting representing the people of our electorate first. The Your NZ party doesn’t dictate.It’s a practical small party strategy – acting for people.
________________________________________________________________________________

DOES/WILL ‘YOUR NEW ZEALAND SUPPORT:

1. NZ ratifying the UN Convention Against Corruption?

2. NZ establishing an independent anti-corruption body tasked with educating the public and PREVENTING corruption?

3. NZ’s laws ensuring transparency in the funding of candidates for elected public office and political parties at central government level?

4. NZ Members of Parliament having an enforceable a ‘Code of Conduct’?

5. NZ Local Govt elected representatives having an enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’?

6. NZ Local Govt staff having an enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’?

7. Making it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Govt elected reps?

8. Making it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Central Govt staff responsible for procurement and property?

9. Making it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Govt staff responsible for procurement?

10. Making it a lawful requirement for details of ‘contracts issued’ – including the name of the contractor; scope, term and value of the contract to be published in NZ Central Govt Public Sector, and Local Govt (Council) Annual Reports so that they are available for public scrutiny?

11. Making it a lawful requirement that a ‘cost-benefit analysis’ of NZ Central Govt public finances be undertaken to substantiate that private procurement of public services previously provided ‘in-house’ is cost-effective for the public majority?

12. Making it a lawful requirement that a ‘cost-benefit analysis’ of NZ Local Govt public finances be undertaken to substantiate that private procurement of public services previously provided ‘in-house’ is cost-effective for the public majority?

13. NZ have a legally-enforcable ‘Code of Conduct’ for members of the NZ Judiciary? (Preferably based upon the ‘Bangalore Principles for Judicial Conduct’?)

14. All NZ Court proceedings recorded, and audio records made available to parties who request them?

15. Making it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ Judicial ‘Register of Interests’?

16. Making it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ ‘Register of Lobbyists’, and an enforceable ‘Lobbyists Code of Conduct’ at Central Govt Ministerial level?

17. Making it a legal requirement at NZ Central and Local Govt level for a ‘post-separation employment quarantine ‘ period’ from the time officials leave the public service to take up a similar role in the private sector?

18. Making it a lawful requirement that it is only a binding vote of the public majority that can determine whether public assets held at NZ Central Govt or Local Govt level are sold; or long-term leased via Public-Private –Partnerships?

19. Making it unlawful in NZ for politicians to knowingly misrepresent their policies prior to election at central or local government level?

20. NZ laws to promote and protect individuals, NGOs and community-based organisations who are ‘whistleblowing’ against ‘conflicts of interest’ and corrupt practices at central and local govt level and within the judiciary?

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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June 18, 2011 12:39pm
reid

I hope that by posting under his own name he’ll be more prepared to play to his intelligence rather than play to the baying crowd.

It hasn’t really worked for me I’m afraid Pete. I quite like the baying crowd. It makes me feel warm in my tummy.
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June 18, 2011 12:42pm
Put it away

Oh right flipper, so when you say “check out Stuff” without any further detail, you don’t mean the lead story from today taking up a huge space at the top of the page, you mean one from yesterday morning that’s buried way down the page under “Oddstuff”? Initial suspicions confirmed flipper, you are indeed retarded.
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June 18, 2011 12:43pm
hj

# wat dabney (541) Says:
June 18th, 2011 at 10:40 am

Global Warming: follow the dirty money

http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2011/6/16/ideological-money-laundering.html
……
I did, I followed Gareth Morgan who employed scientist to argue the case for and against (Poles Apart)

His conclusion:

Much of the science pointing to human caused global warming is irrefutable.

And New Zealand?

We’re an absolute joke, the home of double standards. New Zealand’s record on this is terrible. We’re a joke. If it’s anything like economics, you really need people to have their heads banged against the wall before they wake up and say; shivers, this is for real.

http://polesapart.com/
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June 18, 2011 12:45pm
Pete George

reid – ah, but you can still play to the baying crowd under your own name. Maybe a bit differently, but it can be at least as much fun – especially on The Standard where they have accused me of being all sorts of things with all sorts of connections.

The funny thing is R0b and I may have walked past each other on the street on our ways home to battle in the blog.
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June 18, 2011 12:54pm
shady

Weren’t you banned there PG?

And on the earthquake topic, are Japan getting the same rate and intensity of aftershocks as Christchurch?
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June 18, 2011 12:58pm
Pete George

Yep shady, but R0b/Anthony let through a comment to him on revealing himself. I’ll still do my time.

As I said, he seems a decent guy, he’s just passionate (and I think like me maybe sometimes over-passionate) about what he’s doing.

I’d guess that in reality we won’t have major differences about what we want overall for New Zealand, we’re just going about it different ways.
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June 18, 2011 1:06pm
nasska

shady @ 12.58pm

Japan are still getting rocked. You can keep up to date with it at……….. http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
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June 18, 2011 1:12pm
Johnboy

Where the hell is my barbed wire Penny?
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June 18, 2011 1:23pm
Elaycee

@nasska says: “You owe it to yourself & your neighbours to find out what the attraction is. After all you already have Water woman & John Banks at the hustings. Who’s next?”

I’m out East and not in Epsom. Our MP is Jamie-Lee Ross. Our local ward is represented on the Auckland Council by Dick Quax. And for that I am very grateful.

But I think the reason why the fruit loops are (now) attracted to Epsom, comes down to one fact – the local Pak N Save and Foodtown supermarkets have a fierce market share battle going on and one of the current loss leaders is tin foil on a roll. Large rolls. This usually flushes out the mung beans…

So, it must be that. Can’t be anything to do with the publicity that the likes of Banks etc would attract, because that would mean that those with a snowball’s chance in hell of breaking into the ranks of even the top three polling candidates, would be present simply because they are narcissists and the thought they might share the same stage and the same oxygen as Banks et al, fuels their ego. Oh oh…. 3, 2, 1….
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June 18, 2011 1:24pm
publicwatchdog

Pete George (10,184) Says:
June 18th, 2011 at 1:06 pm

…………

I’d guess that in reality we won’t have major differences about what we want overall for New Zealand, we’re just going about it different ways.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

I for one, Pete George, am not clear at all about what you or ‘Your NZ’ want overall for NZ – which is why I asked those questions about the need for genuine ‘transparency’ in NZ, and how improvements could be achieved.

An acknowledgment that these points are/will ‘be considered’ at some stage would be appreciated?

(Although I’m not clear as to your ‘process’ as to the formation of policy by ‘Your New Zealand’?
Seems slightly ‘cart before the horse’ to get a membership first – then to formulate policy?

Not quite sure how you intend to attract members if they don’t know what ‘Your NZ’ stands for.

Not trying to be picky or unhelpful here – just trying to participate in an informed discussion?

Cheers.

Penny

http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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June 18, 2011 1:28pm
publicwatchdog

So ‘Elaycee’ and ‘Johnboy’ – no considered opinions on my suggested legislative changes required to achieve genuine transparency in NZ?

(No surprises there……….. )

Got any constructive ideas yourselves – or do you prefer to continue to whine and snipe at those of us who have bothered to put some time and effort into not only identifying the problems – but also putting forward potential solutions?

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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June 18, 2011 1:35pm
Johnboy

CONSIDERED OPINION FROM JOHNBOY:

Your suggested legislative changes are a bucket of powerful manure. 🙂

Where’s my barbed wire? 🙂
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June 18, 2011 1:39pm
Elaycee

@nasska / johnboy:

Heard a rumour this morning about Madam d’Eau’s campaign:

Platform: Pinus Radiata / Steel supports.
Coach: Mark Hammett
Policy Advisors: Fred Dagg / Sir Murray Rivers QC (Retired)
Tax Advice: Matt McCarten
Transport: Jetstar
Wardrobe: Dame Edna
Media Training: Anthony Weiner
IT: Labour Party Head Office
Music : Mungo Jerry
Photos: dear leader

Sounds like a winner….
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June 18, 2011 1:45pm
Johnboy

You missed off. Legal advisor: Fairly Exorbitant Smith (Bart). 🙂
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June 18, 2011 1:50pm
nasska

Elaycee

With a line up like that it’s a done deal.
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June 18, 2011 1:51pm
Pete George

I must have missed your queries Penny.

I for one, Pete George, am not clear at all about what you or ‘Your NZ’ want overall for NZ

– better representation for voters in parliament (electorate first, not party)
– electorate independence from the party
– more positive politics, no mudslinging or dirty tricks
And yes, more transparency is a part of it, a more open democracy.

Some specific things we’ll be doing:
– regular public meetings
– continuous on-line communication eg via blog
– electorate polling to determine majority wishes
– electorate committee representing key community groups eg local govt, business, education, social services

Seems slightly ‘cart before the horse’ to get a membership first – then to formulate policy?

I think the reverse – how do you know what members want before you know who the members are?

I know it’s common for a party elite to come up with a “great idea” like socialism or conservatism or liberalism and then attract people who will go along with it.

We’re saying the people should be able to say what they want and then we act on it.

One day an electorate might have an unemployment issue to deal with, so you might be dealing with benefits or government stimulated activity.
The next day you might be dealing with air transport and are dealing with airline and airport companies.
Next you might be dealing with health issues, foreign students, business administration overheads.

Pre-defined ideology gets in the way of dealing with issues on their merits. ‘Your NZ’ stands for a better connection between diverse people with diverse ideologies and parliament, issue by issue.

People with political backgrounds seem to have trouble getting their heads around it because we reverse a number of conventions. Non-political people seem to understand it easily.
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June 18, 2011 1:53pm
nasska

Johnboy

I tried to groundbait the legal sharks for you a couple of times this week but no strikes. They must be flat out with the last of the legal aid work.
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June 18, 2011 1:54pm
Johnboy

They are cold fish and tiddlers nasska, not worth throwing the berly too really. Simon has got them fucked, you can tell he has poked a stick into their hole when the sad fucks come out threatening strike action! 🙂

Wankers to a man, (and that is giving them benefit of the doubt on both counts!) 🙂
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June 18, 2011 2:00pm
markm

Greg Presland AKA Mickey Savage is a prolific poster at the Standard.
He is also a lawyer who recieves a considerable amount of public funding through legal aid.
He is likely to be defrauding the system as he probably charges for full days work .
He cant be working full hours when clearly he is reading about ,thinking about and responding to posts on Labours defacto blog for a considerable time each day

Maybe some of his clients should be demanding time logs from him to ensure hes actually working for them at the time and not spouting off one handed on line
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June 18, 2011 2:15pm
nasska

Someone mistakenly left the cages open in the Reptile House at the zoo and there were snakes slithering all over the place.
Frantically, the keeper tried everything, but he couldn’t get the slippery animals back into their cages. Finally, he yelled, “Quick, call a lawyer!”
“A lawyer? Why?”
“We need someone who speaks their language.”
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June 18, 2011 2:19pm
Manolo

The Messiah cannot run away from his disastrous administration’s results: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-economy-worst-depression_574179.html
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June 18, 2011 2:31pm
mikenmild

Compared with which successful US administration?
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June 18, 2011 2:43pm
publicwatchdog

Elaycee (405) Says:
June 18th, 2011 at 1:45 pm

@nasska / johnboy:

Heard a rumour this morning about Madam d’Eau’s campaign:

Platform: Pinus Radiata / Steel supports.
Coach: Mark Hammett
Policy Advisors: Fred Dagg / Sir Murray Rivers QC (Retired)
Tax Advice: Matt McCarten
Transport: Jetstar
Wardrobe: Dame Edna
Media Training: Anthony Weiner
IT: Labour Party Head Office
Music : Mungo Jerry
Photos: dear leader

Sounds like a winner….”
_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Inability to focus on the important issues ‘Elaycee’?

Situation normal……….

What can you expect from a gormless ratepayer who doesn’t care where exactly her rates monies are being spent?

(sigh……….. )

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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June 18, 2011 2:44pm
Johnboy

“Inability to focus on the important issues”

Where’s my barbed wire? 🙂
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June 18, 2011 2:46pm
publicwatchdog

Pete George
‘And yes, more transparency is a part of it, a more open democracy.’
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Pete – I’ve put forward 20 SPECIFIC points that would set up a legislative framework for genuine ‘transparency’ in NZ.

I’m VERY interested in your comments.

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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June 18, 2011 2:48pm
Jimbob

Just read where Japanese scientists have found a way to make artificial meat out of sewage containing Human feces. They just have so much sewage mud so they had to find a use for it. Because of all the bacteria there is so much protein there, so you can have a nice poop burger.
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June 18, 2011 3:02pm
mikenmild

Political movements tends to coalesce around people or ideas. An inspiring leader may attract followers, while individuals sharing similar ideas and values may team together. Many political movements combine these elements.

What Pete seems to be proposing is a bit different, a movement of process rather than personalities or ideas. I’m not sure it has much chance, but good on him for trying to do something about a bankrupt political culture.
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June 18, 2011 3:04pm
Johnboy

New industry for Christchurch perhaps Jimbob?
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June 18, 2011 3:08pm
Elaycee

Hey Johnboy – have you received your barbed wire yet? Nah? No surprises.

Have you checked the pricing at Placemakers Seaview, or do want to hang out for the stuff that is tied left handed? 🙂
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June 18, 2011 3:23pm
F E Smith

markm,

you seem to misunderstand how legal aid works. It is not a salary; legal aid providers aren’t paid for so many hours per week. Legal aid is paid on a per case basis, with so many hours of preparation time allotted by the LSA per case. Mickeysavage will be working on both private and legal aid cases, so the (from memory) $170,000 of legal aid money will not be the firms only source of income. Now, at a quick and rough calculation, the amount of legal aid received by Mickey’s firm amounts to between 1200 and 1500 hours of work per year (can’t be more accurate because there are different pay rates depending on the type of work it is). Also, that $170,000 will be gross and inclusive of GST.

Based on this website, http://www.mylawyer.co.nz/ Mickey appears to be a sole practitioner, with 7 staff employed by the firm. Two of those staff will be fee earners (they are legal exectives, it seems), although at a much lower rate, so there are 5 other staff whose wages have to be covered by Mickey and the two legal execs. Now, those execs will probably be responsible for some of the legal aid work (some of the paperwork, if at all), with it being done under Mickey’s supervision. That will be charged for at a lower rate than Mickey’s, as is set out in the LSA guidelines. In addition, because the LSA never gives you all o the time you spend on a case, there will also be an element of undercharging here, something that any legal aid provider just has to accept- in the criminal area we generally work on between one third and one half of the time spent preparing for a case will be done for free. The amount is higher for the smaller cases than for the bigger ones.

Now, as he is a sole practitioner, Mickey can do whatever he wants with his time whenever he wants to do it. Many lawyers work into the evening as a matter of course, others start very early. For a sole practitioner it is personal preference. Many lawyers work weekends. I can remember many times when my own chambers has had all of its tenants in working on Sunday afternoon, with most of having been there at some point on Saturday as well.

My point is, don’t limit lawyers to a Monday to Friday, 40 hour week. That is becoming most unusual for the legal profession.

That is not defending mickey’s politics nor his commenting style on either the below-par or here. I just want to point out that his commenting will undoubtedly be on time being paid for out of his own pocket, regardless of when it is.
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June 18, 2011 3:24pm
Pete George

Penny – time and events got away on me, I’d had a quick look. Generally I’d support most of those points, maybe all but I’d need to look in more detail.

Some at least I’d strongly support as it is the same as what I’d like to promote through Your NZ. With your approval I could submit the whole list for discussion with a view to supporting it as a whole or with qualifications.

One of the many aims of Your NZ is to work with community groups who want a connection with parliament – I’m going to set up an electorate committee in Dunedin North represented by various groups who want to contribute.

Our general line of communication is:
Electorate > electorate groups > electorate MP > list MPs > government.

None of us involved will agree with everyone’s ideology, we welcome diverse views and will represent them on a democratic basis. Hence we have very limited policies, we want to present the best policies out there.

The “party” is an umbrella structure to provide a means for people in the electorate to be better represented.
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June 18, 2011 3:28pm
wat dabney

hj,

You completely sidestep the issue of the dirty money and political corruption surrounding the global warming scam, choosing instead to simply quote from someone who agrees with you.

And as for your earlier posting about urbanisation, it is childishly bad.
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June 18, 2011 3:28pm
Viking2

MID the violence and the flames of a city in tumult, a photographer in Vancouver captured a moment of calm that will be frozen in time. It was a kiss to rival Rodin’s great Embrace.

The image of a young couple, apparently determined to make love not war, flashed around the world as an instant antidote to reports that scores of people had been arrested and 150 injured in Canada’s unlikely ice-hockey riots.

Amateur sleuths hunched over computers and studied the photograph for clues that would explain the story behind the kiss. Competing theories flashed across Twitter and Facebook: was it a passionate embrace, a staged photo-opportunity or performance art?

In the end, it was revealed to be a moment not of passion but of tenderness. It took a little more than 24 hours for the jigsaw to be pieced together.

Richard Lam, the photographer, who had no idea what he had captured until he got back to the editing room, had not had time to stop and ask who the couple were.

“I was trying not to get my ass kicked,” he said, describing the hordes of protesters and the advancing line of police horses.

A witness, watching the melee from an elevated car park, said the woman in the picture had been injured by the surging police. “The girl appeared to hurt her ankle and that is why the photo was able to come into existence,” he said.

The solution to the mystery behind an image, that will stand alongside Alfred Eisenstaedt’s famous V-J Day in Times Square, came from 16,000 kilometres away in Perth, Australia.

The Jones family saw straight away that the man in the photo was their son, Scott.

Scott, 29, had been working as a barman in Vancouver, doing occasional gigs as a stand-up comic, as part of a year’s backpacking trip.

“I just thought, Yep, that would be Scott because he’s a bit of a dreamer and he wouldn’t have even known there was a riot going on around him,” said Megan Jones, his mother.

“I knew it was him because he doesn’t have a lot of clothes with him and he always puts on the same thing.”

Brett, his father, explained that Scott was lying in the road with his Canadian girlfriend, Alex Thomas, because she had been knocked over by the riot police and had hurt her leg.

“She was crying and upset and Scott was comforting her. As part of that he gave her a kiss on the lips to calm her down and just say ‘It’s going to be OK’.”.

Ms Thomas is planning to accompany her boyfriend back to Australia at the end of his adventure.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/scott-jones-kiss-of-comfort-in-vancouvers-riot/story-e6frg6so-1226077501160
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June 18, 2011 3:31pm
Pete George

It’s good to get some diversity on the Your NZ blog, Jason is in action.

Members of Parliament seek a mandate every 3 years and then they don’t ask or care what ordinary people think or want for another 3 years. It only becomes important for them when they want to get elected again. When they election is over they go back to working for the party or for an ideology and not for the people.

I’m sure we’ll have some good debates over time but our views on this are very much in synch.
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June 18, 2011 3:37pm
F E Smith

Oh, and Tristanb, could you please give me some source for the $200 per hour Karam point that you made in the last Weatherstone thread? I would to follow that up. Thanks.
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June 18, 2011 3:47pm
Johnboy

Afternoon Mi Lord Smith. How is the collection for Simon’s going away present coming along then? 🙂
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June 18, 2011 3:51pm
Elaycee

After having their 11th child, an Irish couple decided that that was enough, as they couldn’t afford a larger bed.
So the husband went to his doctor and told him that he and his wife didn’t want to have any more children..

The doctor told him there was a procedure called a vasectomy that would fix the problem but it was expensive.
A less costly alternative was to go home, get a large firecracker, light it, put it in a beer can, then hold the can up to his ear and count to 10.

The husband said to the doctor, “B’gorrah, I may not be the smartest guy in the world, but I don’t see how putting a
firework in a beer can next to my ear is going to help me with my problem.”

“Trust me, it’ll do the job”, said the doctor.

So the man went home, lit a cracker and put it in a beer can. He held the can up to his ear and began to count:

“1, 2, 3, 4, 5,” at which point he paused and placed the beer can between his legs so he could continue counting on his other hand.

PS: this procedure also works in Tasmania.
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June 18, 2011 3:55pm
reid

My point is, don’t limit lawyers to a Monday to Friday, 40 hour week. That is becoming most unusual for the legal profession.

How come FE since we’ve had so very many lawyers graduating over the last thirty or so years? There’s been heaps. It’s been a very popular course for that long. So how come there still aren’t enough lawyers and secondly, are all the laws which apparently require so many, really necessary?
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June 18, 2011 4:00pm
nasska

Elaycee

Very good……there could also be a few electorates in NZ where it would be a success.
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June 18, 2011 4:06pm

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