General Debate 26 June 2012

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Colville

What? 8.06? Where are you all?
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June 26, 2012 8:06am
Yoza

What this country needs is a means of keeping the riff-raff out of our nicest whitest schools.

Does anyone here have any suggestions?
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June 26, 2012 8:08am
Colville

Yoza, the nicest whitest schools needs a few token brown boys to play wing for the first fifteen!
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June 26, 2012 8:10am
Lance

So early and the trolls have already come out to play.
Pathetic Yoza
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June 26, 2012 8:10am
Griff

Get with the times Yoza we sorted that its called decile rankings
The lower decile schools get more money They are filled with the persons of lower income who for some unknown reason are mostly brown. Isn’t it nice that we pay more for poor people to get educated and have special ghetto schools for them 😆
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June 26, 2012 8:16am
Yoza

Just as long as the trolls are outside of the zone for Auckland Grammar and our pure youth do not need to associate with their offspring, Lance, then we won’t need to worry how early or pathetic they are.
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June 26, 2012 8:17am
Scott Chris

Interesting story from Australia reminiscent of the Bain murders:

A guy says he caught his brother in the act of setting fire to his parents after having stabbed them to death, so he claims he in turn stabbed his brother to death. Yeah right.

Turns out the prosecution evidence was unreliable so he’s got away with it too. (Yes, you guessed it – an overseas expert was brought in to refute evidence in a sloppy investigation)
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June 26, 2012 8:18am
graham

Is Yoza really philu in disguise?
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June 26, 2012 8:24am
barry

Griff

And yes – after spending all the money on these low decile students – theyre still uneducated and cant read or write.

I think my theory that they are just plain dumb remains rock solid.
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June 26, 2012 8:25am
Griff

Yes g its phools alter ego non stoned phool
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June 26, 2012 8:26am
david

On Stuff this morning

“Len Brown nominated for world’s top mayor”

unbelievable, now I do know for certain that I went down the Rabbit hole during the night !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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June 26, 2012 8:30am
bhudson

Is Yoza really philu in disguise?

No. Philu actually thinks he has something useful to contribute.
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June 26, 2012 8:34am
Monique Watson

Ahh I get it Yoza. You want to import socialism into the schools. You want to kick out the “rich” kids and engineer for a “poor kids” quota into top schools. How do you propose to legislate for this?
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June 26, 2012 8:34am
KiwiGreg

I’m pretty sure some statistical analysis and unsourced “qualitative feedback” by an American academic is not the same as evidence of gerrymandering of school zones to keep out brown folk.
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June 26, 2012 8:35am
graham

david: Biggest question is, who nominated him???

Ah well, remember to visit the website and vote for Len … yeah right …
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June 26, 2012 8:36am
Other_Andy

The race baiters are up early.
Yoza the clown, temporary stand-in for Luc the race-hustling champion.
Keep it up yoza.
Speaking of clowns, where is the thread ure-nator?
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June 26, 2012 8:36am
Scott Chris

RIP Lonesome George:

With no offspring and no known individuals from his subspecies left, Lonesome George became known as the rarest creature in the world.

For decades, environmentalists unsuccessfully tried to get the Pinta Island tortoise to reproduce with females from a similar subspecies on the Galapagos Islands.

I guess Monique Watson could have his carcass stuffed so she could make a footrest out of him.
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June 26, 2012 8:40am
hmmokrightitis

He would have been up at 5, quick flog, then “work” – i.e. cut n’ paste. Still smarting over 30 down moron?

Me, I was up at 430. Youngest lost a tooth last night, so played tooth fairy. Back to bed, Mrs was awake, she insisted I apply some internal spinal support so she could go back to sleep, rude not to really. Post that, left her to sleep again, long run in the rain.

And now some coffee whilst I contemplate working for a living.

So many alien concepts in one post, eh moron? 🙂
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June 26, 2012 8:44am
nasska

Other_Andy

…”Speaking of clowns, where is the thread ure-nator?”…..

After getting 30 brand new personalised demerits last night he may be sulking.
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June 26, 2012 8:44am
labours a joke

“..you fucken wanker..garrett..

..phillip ure whoar.co.nz

[DPF: 30 demerits]”

Heh…poor old phool…
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June 26, 2012 8:46am
Scott Chris

Crikey Phil’s doing well this morning. Hasn’t said a word and still has a few mentions.

And as for those who responded to Yoza’s trolling – Sucked In!
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June 26, 2012 8:47am
Griff

Please DPF update the demerits. we all would like to know the present standings of the nasties
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June 26, 2012 8:48am
Wayne91

For Yoza – http://www.ags.school.nz/cultural.html
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June 26, 2012 8:52am
Yoza

Monique Watson (496) Says: “Ahh I get it Yoza. … You want to kick out the “rich” kids and engineer for a “poor kids” quota … . How do you propose to legislate for this?”

Perhaps the principals could manipulate the zoning system to ensure such an outcome, no need to legislate! No, wait. Aren’t we trying to keep the peasants out? Damn pinkos!
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June 26, 2012 8:55am
kowtow

As usual the lefty scum bring it straight around to racism…….when they are actually being anti white….

Those schools would love to have as many Asians as they can get their hands on.

It’s about hard work,commitment and achievement…….not race.

There’s an awful lot of white kids goin down the gurgler too,they’re the ones using the South LA underclass as their role models!
But we only talk about Maori and Pacific under achievenmet while we ignore the white kids who fail…. that’s racist.But hey who cares if the colonial oppressors fail in school.?
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June 26, 2012 9:03am
Scott Chris

Perhaps the principals could manipulate the zoning system to ensure such an outcome

There is no incentive for principles to do so and there is no compulsion for principles to act cohesively and in unison. The only theoretical way to grant poorer kids fairer access to higher decile schools is to redefine the zones. This, however, is not politically viable.

Back to square one.
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June 26, 2012 9:08am
nzd.gbp

So who reckons Germany will leave the EURO soon?

This is what’s going to happen:

– Germany say that’s enough. We aren’t paying for your shitstorm party unless you clean yourselves up. (Merkel already did today)
– Southern europe goes apeshit and demands more and threatens to set their own (german) cars on fire (that they bought on credit cards) (they’re doing this already)
– the greek finance minister resigns the week after he is voted in because he’s seen the books (just happened)
– Germany goes back to the deutschmark.
– The latins vote for a strong leader who really cares for the poor farmers and exploited people of the land and declares war against the greedy north
– Germany and Britain become allies against a united pan-national socialist southern europe (pan-nazis) and prevail, with the help of the anzacs and the yanks.
– whining lefties give each other nobel prizes for figuring out how to print their way out of debt. (check)
– kaboom.
– back to the dark ages.
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June 26, 2012 9:09am
Lance

@kowtow
To mention a group as being ‘white’ (as opposed to say a different social economic grouping) means Yoza is a racist. Brown people can’t belong to this group by Yoza’s logic.

I thought people should be judged only by their actions but Yoza thinks its about the colour of their skin.

Way to go Yoza you racist freak
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June 26, 2012 9:09am
Carlos

Brilliantly done.

Debt Limit – A Guide To American Federal Debt Made Easy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Li0no7O9zmE
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June 26, 2012 9:13am
Scott Chris

Ideally a child should have access to whichever public school s/he wishes to attend. As this isn’t logistically possible the onus should be on the most oversubscribed public schools to expand as quickly as is practicable and for out-of-zone kids to be solely ballot drawn.
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June 26, 2012 9:22am
travellerev

Why is John Key in such a hurry to sell now. Even John Key knows that the financial system is collapsing at an alarming rate so selling will just net us soon to be worthless billions of fiat currency on our accounts. Oh wait, he’s not here to help us but to help his bankster mates dump their shite paper in exchange for our real world assets!
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June 26, 2012 9:25am
David Garrett

Hmmo: “internal spinal support”…I love it!
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June 26, 2012 9:27am
trout

According to W/O an Intermediate School in Howick is busing in pupils from Otara to reduce his decile rating; lower rating equals more funding. This would suit many Otara parents who want to avoid sending their kids to local schools. (‘brown flight’). Researchers have found that the major problem in low decile schools is not the ability of the kids, but the low expectations of the teachers. A survey was done in South Auckland on what the teachers believed new entrants could do (hold a pencil, write their name, know their numbers etc. etc.); this was compared with tests on the new entrants. The findings indicated that the teachers universally underrated the ability of the kids. Generally the teachers were observed to be lazy; that teaching down to a low expectation was easier. No wonder pakeha parents (and ambitious pacifika parents) want no part of low decile education.
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June 26, 2012 9:28am
Other_Andy

The Socialist Union of European states continues its slide into bankruptcy.
Greece isn’t going to play ball. They are not going to implement real austerity measures.
They’ve lived the high life with other peoples’ money for too long.
Spain is still playing the tax-spend-bail-out game. They have so much debt that lending rates to service that debt are killing them. Borrowing another 100 billion to reduce debt (Yep, they are serious) will mean another rise in interest rates as the credit agencies will downgrade them even further. This means they are back at square one again bar another 100 billion of debt.
Waiting in the wings are Italy, Portugal, Cyprus…….
While France is still in (comparatively) reasonable shape, the socialists will soon turn it in a basket case with their tax and spend policy.
To be continued………
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June 26, 2012 9:32am
KiwiGreg

“so selling will just net us soon to be worthless billions of fiat currency on our accounts.”

OK just stick them in my account.
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June 26, 2012 9:32am
Paulus

What you do is to bring in legislation saying that any child can go to any school, and they cannot not accept them.

Clinton did this, with co-operative pressure from the Senator for Illinois whereby a mortgage cannot be refused to anybody, and that for example “Freddy Mack” and “Fannie Mae” effectively the two national mortgage companies, HAD to give a mortgage to anybody, whether they could afford the repayments.
FM and FM said that they did not have enough money and were told to go borrow. They did and what happened the Sub-Prime Mortgage market eventually collapsed as the borrowers could not pay their mortgages.
The Senator B. Obama, who represented principally the Afro-American voters in Illinois.

Now the same, now President, supported by the ex President, is trying to do the same with Healthcare whereby everybody will have to have Health insurance. Which Insurance companies are going to give carte blanche cover because the law says that they have to.
This is before Congress today/shortly and will probably be the greatest defeat that Obama/Clinton has had.
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June 26, 2012 9:36am
hmmokrightitis

David, she didnt seem to mind it either 🙂
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June 26, 2012 9:40am
Monique Watson

Sorry to feed the troll.
Do I get to eat the turtle firs Scoot Chris?
Mmm. Mmm. Turtle and shark fin soup.
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June 26, 2012 9:40am
Other_Andy

@travellerev

Right…
Why not keep on borrowing NZ$100 million per week instead?
In 2012 we have to pay NZ$ 3.69 billionto service our debt.
Who is going to pay that?

The US and Europe are trying to spend and tax their way out of debt.
How is that working out?

http://www.interest.co.nz/news/54686/govt-debt-front-loading-over-although-dmo-quietly-borrows-nz700m-foreign-investors-flock-
http://wheresmytaxes.co.nz/
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June 26, 2012 9:43am
freemark

Damn, where’s ure-whine?.. was going to offer him a job.. surveying hard working blue collars to see what their family incomes actually are under our benevolent tax credit system and what they think about parasitic bludgers.
Maybe he’s got a job already, or collected the $millions for his quality blog. lol
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June 26, 2012 9:47am
Brian Smaller

Hmmo: “internal spinal support”…I love it!

I am not sure if DG is getting all rainbow or if I just misread that.
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June 26, 2012 9:48am
Monique Watson

Okay kids. What about the surrounding infrastructure for these pumped up uber awesome schools that can take anyone? Roads and shite?

You’d probably find the school would take over the neighborhood and students would have to drive an hour to commute. You’d have to relocate and open up another school in a big fucking empty field and your problem is not solved as those who would want to stay at the first school would stay. You have extra school facilities which is no bad thing if you have money to sling around. However you still have a cluster of rich kids at the original school taking P and a cluster of poor kids at another school who are fuckin good at rugby if they can keep their heads out of the glue pot. SNAFU.

You can’t separate the school from it’s community. If you have bad parenting you have unsupported schools.
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June 26, 2012 9:50am
David Garrett

Brian: You misread! I cant be bothered trying to get that chap’s full handle right, so just use a shortened version…
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June 26, 2012 9:50am
Doug

The Government is permitting petrol and mining exploration. Is there a new method I have missed, how do you mine or explore for petrol?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7168641/Mining-to-be-permitted-in-marine-sanctuaries
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June 26, 2012 10:05am
Brian Smaller

(RIA) — Egypt’s Constitution should be based on the Koran and Sharia law, presidential candidate from the Muslim Brotherhood Islamist movement Mohamed Morsi said.

“The Koran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader, jihad is our path and death in the name of Allah is our goal,” Morsi said in his election speech before Cairo University students on Saturday night.

Today Egypt is close as never before to the triumph of Islam at all the state levels, he said.

“Today we can establish Sharia law because our nation will acquire well-being only with Islam and Sharia. The Muslim Brothers and the Freedom and Justice Party will be the conductors of these goals,” he said.

This is a guy that they calla moderate.

and

According to an Arabic-language report last Tuesday of a closed-door senior-level Brotherhood confab, the Islamist group intends to get rid of film and “artistic heritage,” replace police uniforms with “Islamic garb,” and make memorization of Islam’s holy book a pre-condition for advancement in school. These sweeping changes—dubbed the “Jazira Plan”—are to “be put into execution on the first day Dr. [Mohamed] Morsi assumes the presidency.”

The first step in the plan is to “replace the national anthem with the so-called anthem of the Islamic Caliphate,” soon after followed by “the abolition of the Ministry of Information and replacing it with an Islamic media organization” whose sole aim would be to “publish Islamic heritage only.”

Guess those Copts will be faced with the three choices Islam gives all conquered people – pay the jizya, convert or die.
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June 26, 2012 10:12am
hmmokrightitis

You leave my handle out of this thanks DG 🙂
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June 26, 2012 10:13am
Griff

Monique Watson
“You can’t separate the school from it’s community. If you have bad parenting you have unsupported schools”.

Nail head impact
My sister is special needs teacher my partner is school Councillor
The stories that I hear about the failure of the parents in low decile schools are horrendous
One of the worse was a kid turning up to school at seven with no language at all due to being profoundly deaf the parents had not noticed this
At high decile schools my partner has worked in the girls complain that their boyfriend doesn’t like them or mummy does not give me freedom at low decile schools its more (insert family member or peer) raped or bashed me
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June 26, 2012 10:13am
Other_Andy

@Brian

I am sure you misquoted him somewhere.
Islam is the religion of peace and tolerance.
You are talking about the ‘Arab Spring’
Peace….flowers…love….happiness…..
So the journalistas have been telling us.
You must be one of those evil Islamophobes.
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June 26, 2012 10:21am
Brian Smaller

You must be one of those evil Islamophobes.

And proudly so.
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June 26, 2012 10:28am
princetipytoe

In Judge K. de Ridder’s sentencing notes from 2005, the mother and sister spoke of the anguish caused by Garrett’s actions.

He said the mother of the boy expressed “deep sorrow and shock” after learning Garrett had stolen the identity of her dead son.

She described Garrett’s actions as “stealing from the grave”.

The dead boy’s sister was also quoted by Judge de Ridder.

“The deeply cruel, shameful and malicious manner in acquiring such details is akin to literally stealing from the grave and has caused deep distress for the entire family, especially for my elderly mother, to be subjected to further trauma and pain in the memory of her beloved infant son and our darling little brother’s name.”

Judge de Ridder said it was obvious time had not healed the hurt of the family’s loss of their son.

“In cases such as this, where the identification of a deceased person is used, there is a considerable amount of hurt to the family of the deceased, knowing that their son’s identity had been abused in this way,” the police summary of facts said.

Garrett’s lawyer, Gary Gotlieb, told the judge that Garrett had an anxiety disorder and may have lost his legal practising certificate if he was convicted.

He had an anxiety depressive condition and was taking medication at the time of appearing in court.

Garrett asked to keep his identity secret to “maintain his reputation”.
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June 26, 2012 10:41am
hj

Rights are individual and inherent…communities have no rights.
…….
discussion about libertarian beliefs
http://ozconservative.blogspot.co.nz/2011/05/libertarians-communities-have-no-rights.html
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June 26, 2012 10:52am
hj

The left-wing soft on crimers would be the first to say that [someone] had served their time or it was a long time ago etc, etc and they would be right in David Garrett’s case
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June 26, 2012 10:55am
kowtow

NZ$,GB
Germany leave the Euro?

Here’s my scenario for the European Union of Socialist Republics.
Prime ministers, Chancellors and Brussels based bureaucrats continue to stick their heads up each others arseholes and while passing legislation to ensure “equality”, borders continue to be over run by hordes of poor Africans and belligerent Muslims.
The continent that gave the world democracy and freedom will eventually succomb to Mohammeds adherents and a new Dark Age will be initiated.
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June 26, 2012 10:59am
hj

Stealing an identity, in David Garrett’s case was just about details. The rest is over blown rhetoric: “like stealing from the grave”.
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June 26, 2012 11:00am
hmmokrightitis

Nothing quite like a keyboard captain attack. What a brave person you are prince. Your mother must be very proud.
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June 26, 2012 11:00am
Michael Mckee

Brian
The copts already pay the jizya and regularly die due to the religion of peace, least of all their daughters and wives getting raped periodically with no police investigation..
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June 26, 2012 11:11am
F E Smith

Scott Chris,

re your 8.18am comment. Are you suggesting that only local experts are qualified to give evidence in a case? That overseas experts are simply opinions for hire, whilst local experts are upright, honest, rigorous and impartial? The fact that they are giving evidence favourable to to the prosecution proves that, I suppose.

Of course, when the Crown imports an overseas expert to dispute what the local experts say, that is ok, is it?
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June 26, 2012 11:20am
tom hunter

… a new Dark Age will be initiated.

Oh come on people. You have to keep a sense of humour about all this. Look at Greece for example: representatives of the infamous “Troika” (EC, ECB, IMF) were supposed to pay a visit to look at the books and see how austerity was going when the poor old Greek PM fell over and detached a retina, and the Finance Minister fainted. The result was that the meeting was put off – which buys a few more days for the Greeks to pretend they’re doing something and the EC to pretend they’re going to continue bailing them out.

And the Finance Minister has resigned – a week after getting the job. Presumably they’ll get someone with a stronger stomach who can really look all that red ink in the eye and keep functioning. I recommend someone who’s permanently drunk. This is what he may have seen – supposedly a photo of part of the Greek Finance Ministry.
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June 26, 2012 11:21am
Michael Mckee

Tom
If we ran our countries like a household do you think things would be any different?
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June 26, 2012 11:29am
Scott Chris

Of course, when the Crown imports an overseas expert to dispute what the local experts say, that is ok, is it?

FES, either way around, I don’t like the whole business of expertise for hire in conjunction with an adversarial system. I don’t think it is conducive to the establishment of actual justice.

With regard to this particular case, the fact that the victims had CO in their blood doesn’t exonerate the alleged perp, it merely refutes the scenario the incompetent prosecution painted which is basically beside the point but would be seen by a jury as a ‘point of doubt’ to the defense imo.
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June 26, 2012 11:38am
grumpy

Meanwhile, in another country…Just like here
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June 26, 2012 11:43am
TheContrarian

Suffer the children….

Children taught Loch Ness Monster is real, evolution is not
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June 26, 2012 11:43am
Longknives

And another gripe about rugby- Is it just me who cringes whenever the NZ media refer to the NZ Under 20 rugby team as the “Baby Blacks”? I see even the commentators are now calling them the “Baby Blacks”…

The “Baby Blacks” were the 1986 All Blacks who upset the heavily- favoured France in the absence of the touring Cavaliers, sparking the careers of Fitzpatrick, Brewer, Botica, Joe Stanley and co.

Sounds like this years U20 version are anything but ‘Cherubic’ so hopefully this cringeworthy habit of giving them the ‘cutesy’ moniker will end.
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June 26, 2012 11:46am
Scott Chris

Mmm. Mmm. Turtle and shark fin soup.

Monique, do you feel any emotion when you see a shark hauled on deck, its fin sliced off only for the rudderless shark to be thrown back into the water to die of starvation?

Or how about this?
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June 26, 2012 11:48am
TheContrarian

I was recently in Kruger National Park for 8 days and in the time 7 Rhino’s were shot (as were 6 poachers).
It is awful
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June 26, 2012 11:51am
Pete George

The Contrarian: there’s evidence of similar inabilities of here Fundamentalist Christian refusing to accept science in education if it threatens their fundamental beliefs. But the proportion of religious/scientific dysfunction is far less here than in the states, those religiously repeating unscientific nonsense are in much smaller numbers here than in the US. Far more NZ Christians have proven capable of modernising.
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June 26, 2012 11:56am
Longknives

The Contrarian/Pete George

And this differs from New Zealand schoolchildren being taught to ‘fear the Taniwha’ how??
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June 26, 2012 11:58am
TheContrarian

“this differs from New Zealand schoolchildren being taught to ‘fear the Taniwha’ how??”

I was taught from the very beginning that Taniwha were mythical beasts.
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June 26, 2012 12:00pm
Keeping Stock

A new economic theory has been discovered:

Trevornomics (n) – being economical with the truth, or making the numbers say what you want them to say even when they don’t.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/06/trevornomics.html
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June 26, 2012 12:07pm
kowtow

rhinos being shot?
Why not,multiculturalism dictates we respect all cultures. if Chinese men are prepared to pay big money in the belief their dicks will stiffen and Africans are prepared to risk their lives earning a few dangerous dollrs killing off their own animals who are we,rich westerners who can afford to travel to the DarkContinent to look at animals to judge them?
Save the planet and go to the fricken zoo.
If you want to see vibrant African culture try Melbourne.
.
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June 26, 2012 12:13pm
TheContrarian

@Kowtow

Since when does multiculturalism dictate we must allow illegal activity to take place? Poaching Rhino is illegal, the trade of Rhino is illegal. Multiculturalism has nothing to do with it.

“earning a few dangerous dollrs killing off their own animals” Get your facts straight – many/most of the animals killed are privately owned.
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June 26, 2012 12:16pm
Monique Watson

Oh FFS TTT. Tis human to behave like a cock. Or to err. Or something. I once thought it was a lark to steal from my school part time job at a supermarket. I forgot about it until my conscience made me pay the money back. It’s all part of the the human condition.
Most of us have long since moved on from having an opinion to the sound of our own skeletons rattling in the closet.
I should ignore the brainfarts but this is typical of today’s political environment where, unless we continually prance around showing how much we CARE, we are told how AWWFUL we are. It kills democracy dead by stifling political debate. Just like here on GD.
And that is why Scott Chris at 11.48am, I am slowly not going to give a fuck, to the sound of my tiny violin.

Those that can do something about it should, meanwhile I better make like a tree and leave to cook some fucking eggs. Seeing as I’m all out of turtle.
Has this been posted:

http://pc.blogspot.com/2012/06/young-martyn.html
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June 26, 2012 12:17pm
Griff

from MWs link
Does it describe anyone else we know?
, “What, then, is the motive of such intellectuals [those who support socialism]? Power-lust. Power-lust—as a manifestation of helplessness, of self-loathing and of the desire for the unearned.”
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June 26, 2012 12:22pm
Chthoniid

@kowtow

rhinos being shot?
Why not,multiculturalism dictates we respect all cultures. if Chinese men are prepared to pay big money in the belief their dicks will stiffen and Africans are prepared to risk their lives earning a few dangerous dollrs killing off their own animals who are…

Wow. So much wrong in so little space.

Rhino horn isn’t regarded as an impotency cure in Traditional Chinese Medicine. It’s used as a cardiotonic or antipyretic. I’ve had to explore sex-shops in China as part of the black-market research there. And seriously, the traditional stuff occupies a small shelf in the back, while the rest of the space is devoted to sex toys, and (probably) fake cialis and viagra pills. Do you want to pop a blue pill- a chew a dried up, foot long seal penis?

The emergent market for rhino appears to be Vietnam, where for whatever reason, it has acquired the reputation for being a cure for cancer. Up until 2009 there was a quasi-legal export trade as ‘trophies’ from Vietnamese shooting rhinos in SA game parks got sent home. (CITES rules prohibit commercial export whilst still allowing permits for trophies in sustainable hunts). Once the Conservation NGOs cottoned on to this fact, they pressured SA to close it down. Coincidentally, since then rhino horn prices have surged to over $US50k per kg. And by another coincidence poaching in Southern Africa has exploded. Obviously there is no relationship between any of these events.
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June 26, 2012 12:30pm
F E Smith

Scott Chris,

I don’t like the whole business of expertise for hire in conjunction with an adversarial system

Except that in any criminal trial the obligation of the expert is not to the side that calls them, but to the Court. Any expert called has to be properly accredited in their brief of evidence to satisfy the Court that they truly are an expert. Their opinion is fully disclosed to the opposing side well before the trial (if possible, or as soon as possible if close to or during the trial) and any opposing experts involved in the trial are required to get together and try to find a common opinion if possible.

The use of experts in trials in the UK, NZ, Aus. and Canada, among other British based systems and outside of the US, while sometimes problematic, should never be seen as being a matter of ‘buying’ and opinion favourable to the side calling the expert. That only happens in television and the movies.

With regards the trial you mention, you must remember that speculation is not allowed in a criminal trial. The defendant had admitted killing his brother (and been punished for it) and there was no evidence at all, other than, I understand, that of the Crown expert, to link him potentially to his parents’ deaths. When that evidence was shown to be wrong, there was no evidence on which to convict the accused man.

He may have done it, or he may not have done it. However, it appears that, in the opinion of two of the appellate judges, there is no evidence that he did do it. So what is the problem that you have with this? That a foreign expert disagreed, and obviously convincingly so, with a local expert? Or that a once convicted man has walked free?
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June 26, 2012 12:35pm
cha

Suffer the children….

Children taught Loch Ness Monster is real, evolution is not

Here’s a short excerpt from the documentary School Choice: Taxpayer Funded Creationism, Bigotry, and Bias.

More here.
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June 26, 2012 12:42pm
tom hunter

Tom
If we ran our countries like a household do you think things would be any different?

Of course. But there’s no point in making that analogy as Very Smart People will immediately scoff at the notion and point out that households can’t do things like guaranteeing their income (tax) and printing their own money.

Those two capabilities are key to understanding why such a simple analogy cannot possibly be applied to an entire nation, and also to understanding how they can both be tweaked to dig Europe and most of the West out of the crap.

Brilliant isn’t it?
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June 26, 2012 12:46pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Scott Chris
8.18

Wrong, again.
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June 26, 2012 12:48pm
Other_Andy

@TheContrarian

“I was taught from the very beginning that Taniwha were mythical beasts.”

Then I suggest we will pay the self styled and appointed Tohungas ‘mythical’ money to appease them.

“Since when does multiculturalism dictate we must allow illegal activity to take place?”

Another typical Western paternalistic view. Who are you to decide what is legal and what is not?
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June 26, 2012 12:48pm
Scott Chris

FES, you make a good point and I concede that there appears to be insufficient evidence with which to convict this man. Seems he was smart enough to keep his story straight and to burn what evidence there may have been.

Contrast that with the recent incident involving the guy who was pushed through a pub window in Perth. Obviously the perp was an asshole, but murder? No way. Manslaughter surely?
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June 26, 2012 1:07pm
Monique Watson

@Griff. Money is a place marker for energy in it’s rawest state. We put energy into producing goods or the invention of the production of suchand we are rewarded with these place markers. this elevates us above our fellow man
Socialism is an attempt to siphon that off without an addition of energy into the system and that is why it translates to those very qualities.

Moralising has no bearing on truth and should not be the cornerstone of politics.
Morals, yes and I am sure the sharks and turtles will eventually be helped from cases like this: Classic story on foie gras on Whaleoil that finishes:
“The bottom line is, you shouldn’t be torturing Goosey Gander and Donald Duck,” Burton said. “It’s a bad goddamn thing to be doing.
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June 26, 2012 1:08pm
kowtow

contrarian
you were bleating about rhino. either they are poached or private.
multiculturalism and illegality….lots of it about and the political elites ignore it constantly.

chtintoid……the traditional stuff in the back…..so you are saying they do use it?
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June 26, 2012 1:11pm
wikiriwhis business

Australians fined for speaking out against global tax.
Over and up to $A1.1 million
http://www.hangthebankers.com/australians-face-fines-of-over-1m-for-speaking-out-against-new-carbon-tax/
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June 26, 2012 1:12pm
Pauleastbay

But all the liberals said the muslim brotherhood wouldn’t take over Eygpt, whatever has happened?

Will those same liberal wankers be applauding when female circumcision is introduced and women are stoned and people have their hands cut off.

Probably not, they will shrink back into their fantasy world and say fuck all because again they were wrong and a tragedy will now unfold for the women and children of Eygpt.

This will be a daily tragedy that fucking liberals have no way of understanding because they have never witnessed a act of true viloence
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June 26, 2012 1:12pm
cha

A couple of opinion pieces re- the Euro shitfight.

The end of the German “miracle” is coming: No special sauce on this Currywust

Why are the French pushing hard for European banking union?: Because they know they’re next.
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June 26, 2012 1:17pm
kowtow

cha
the frogs have always wanted to dominate Europe.

Post WW2 they finally got the chance( without going to war) through the first of many treaties, the steel and coal one to control German industry.
dem deutsche volk,divided, guilty and humiliated just rolled over. this is just another chapter,and not the last one.
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June 26, 2012 1:25pm
Michael Mckee

Paulaeastbay

What has been happening to the Copts in egypt for time immemorial is a tragedy and has happened without the muslim brotherhood in power.
That they are preyed upon periodically is because of Islam not the MB.
the election of the MB merely allows the truth of muslim people to be known properly.

Until the useful idiots for Islam in the west get it about Sharia and the heart value of Islam they will continue to assist and aid the Islamists under the guise of multiculturalism and everything is equal and being fair.
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June 26, 2012 1:26pm
TheContrarian

@Ktow

“you were bleating about rhino. either they are poached or private.”

poached and private are not mutually exclusive. Privately owned animals are poached which, regardless of whether Rhino trade is illegal, is still theft.

Multiculturalism has nothing to do with it.
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June 26, 2012 1:31pm
freemark

Some great planet saving solutions here.

http://youtu.be/T19oA169EkA
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June 26, 2012 1:34pm
Other_Andy

@Pauleastbay

“Will those same liberal wankers be applauding when female circumcision is introduced……..”

What do you mean “when”?
More than 91% of women in Egypt are mutilated like that already.

http://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/fgm/prevalence/en/index.html
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June 26, 2012 1:35pm
cha

More from Addicting Info on the ~~Accelerated Christian Education~~ Nessie curriculum.

The ACE curriculum also includes goodies such as:

Science Proves Homosexuality is a Learned Behavior

The Second Law of Thermodynamics Disproves Evolution

No Transitional Fossils Exist

Humans and Dinosaurs Co-Existed

Evolution Has Been Disproved

A Japanese Whaling Boat Found a Dinosaur

Solar Fusion is a Myth
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June 26, 2012 2:19pm
TheContrarian

@Cha

Man that is fucking depressing
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June 26, 2012 3:16pm
kowtow

hey dudes it’s sooooo fucken cool to put down thickos…..it makes me feel so,like, er,superior.

What a great way up man, as long as there’s some other fucker more stoopid than me, then I must be doin OK,man,like,

dinosaws wow for real
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June 26, 2012 3:28pm
stu-tron

Shearer, classic…”we’ll be out there come rain….umm…come um…sunshine….um (what other kind of weather do we have?)…um…rain?, dam just said that…

It’s like watching Dennis Denuto “it’s about the vibe, it’s about mabo…um, yeah it’s about the vibe”
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June 26, 2012 3:30pm
Lee01

Same-Sex Science

The social sciences cannot settle the moral status of homosexuality.

“Is homosexuality biologically determined at birth? A pervasive understanding is settling into Western culture that homosexual orientation, indeed any and all sexual orientations, has been proven by science to be a given of the human person and rooted in biology. Why does this falsehood—that homosexuality has been proven to have an exclusively biological cause—matter? It is the basis for asserting that sexual orientation is the same sort of characteristic as race or skin color, which has become, for instance, the foundational metaphor in the push for the right to marry someone of the same sex.

To avoid misunderstanding the phenomenon of homosexuality, we must grapple with the Achilles heel of research into the homosexual condition: the issue of sample representativeness. To make general characterizations such as “homosexuals are as emotionally healthy as heterosexuals,” scientists must have sampled representative members of the broader group. But representative samples of homosexual persons are difficult to gather, first, because homosexuality is a statistically uncommon phenomenon.

There are, in fact, many such studies and a lot of actual evidence (that this is not the case). Recent studies show that familial, cultural, and other environmental factors contribute to same-sex attraction. Broken families, absent fathers, older mothers, and being born and living in urban settings all are associated with homosexual experience or attraction. Even that most despised of hypothesized causal contributors, childhood sexual abuse, has recently received significant empirical validation as a partial contributor from a sophisticated thirty-year longitudinal study published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior. Of course, these variables at most partially determine later homosexual experience, and most children who experienced any or all of these still grow up heterosexual, but the effects are nonetheless real.

Declarations that homosexuality is “normal,” “positive,” and “legitimate” would seem be the product of value judgments rather than objective science. The APA’s Proposition 8 brief argues that sexual orientation “encompasses an individual’s sense of personal and social identity based on those attractions, behaviors expressing them, and membership in a community of others who share them.” There indeed are persons who organize their lives around their sexual orientation. But to claim for all human persons that “sexual orientation encompasses an individual’s sense of personal and social identity” is remarkable both conceptually and scientifically. I cannot conceive of data comprehensive enough to support this claim. And how does science establish that such a grounding of human identity is “positive”?

Science may be able to contribute valuable evidence about the association of such identities with certain measurable functional realities of life, such as whether such individuals experience heightened levels of emotional distress, report levels of self-esteem comparable to those of others, and so forth. But how did science become the arbiter of what is positive? Such a thing can happen, precisely as Hammack and Windell suggest, through a paradigm shift within the discipline, a decision of practicing psychologists to embrace the “minority narrative of homosexuality.” But can empirical science establish homosexual orientation as “a legitimate minority identity” or sexual orientation as a fundamental for constituting the self? I hardly see how.”

http://www.firstthings.com/article/2012/01/same-sex-science
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June 26, 2012 3:37pm
F E Smith

Scott Chris,

on what basis do you presume that he is not telling the truth?
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June 26, 2012 4:45pm
F E Smith

Yes, yes, yes! Get rid of that left winger David Cameron and his useless mate George Osborne and make the Tories a true centre-right party again.

And make David Davis deputy…
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June 26, 2012 4:48pm
thedavincimode

Turns out the prosecution evidence was unreliable so he’s got away with it too. (Yes, you guessed it – an overseas expert was brought in to refute evidence in a sloppy investigation)

Think of the money we could save in the criminal justice system if we just sent the crime newspaper clippings to Scotty Nomates. Why waste time hearing evidence and having the opportunity to cross-examine witnesses? The great advantage in using Scotty is that he doesn’t need to see or hear all the evidence. It can all be done from snippets while sitting at home on his arse. I mean, how efficient is that!!

Three seconds into the Crown evidence in the Ewen McDonald trial our Scotty was giving McDonald the thumbs down. Gee, did he really think that the Crown was going to turn up without any sort of a case at all? There was me thinking that that was how trials got to Court, but it seems not. I can’t believe they didn’t stop the trial right there, let alone waste any time at all hearing whatever case the defense may have lined up.
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June 26, 2012 5:47pm
Pauleastbay

O-A
What do you mean “when”?
More than 91% of women in Egypt are mutilated like that already.

“Man that is fucking depressing”
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June 26, 2012 6:03pm
Pauleastbay

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=61869

Lee 01 have a read of above and this below

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=42149

man do I love the internet, this site is gold and I can’t figure out whether its a piss take much. haha
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June 26, 2012 6:10pm

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