General Debate 9 October 2012

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Don the Kiwi

KKK forever 🙂
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October 9, 2012 8:01am
Griff

http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/7784694/Letter-written-by-Einstein-up-for-auction
A letter in which Albert Einstein dismissed the idea of God as a product of human weakness is being sold on eBay for a starting price of $3 million.

The letter, handwritten in 1954, a year before Einstein’s death, was addressed to philosopher Eric Gutkind.

In it, Einstein discussed his views on religion, including calling ‘‘the Bible a collection of honorable but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.’’
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October 9, 2012 8:07am
jaba

Kiwis leaving the country at record levels
The NZ population to reach 5.2 mill by 2031
gee
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October 9, 2012 8:09am
Yvette

When New Zealand’s major tobacco company regularly advertises on television that their product is harmful, why does Parliament not show proper responsibility and either ban or further harshly restrict cigarettes sales and other tobacco products?
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October 9, 2012 8:15am
liarbors a joke

Good reading from nzcpr

http://www.nzcpr.com/NewsletterArchive.htm
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October 9, 2012 8:17am
jaba

Gareth Hughes, the Gweens new version of Keith Locke, accused the Chinese Govt of spying on NZ and then added that the US is also doing it.
Now, when the Gweens join with Labour/Winny1st/mana as a coalition Govt one day, who will they send to meet with the Chinese/US reps?? (Wussel would be a good choice as he could use the occasion to get his flag back).
The Gweens really have pushed an hopless Labour out of the media spotlight so a small win. The problem is the message is crazy shit.
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October 9, 2012 8:17am
Manolo

Another one-eyed (il)liberal: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/08/krugman-calls-obama-debate-stretches-minor-fudges-but-romney-flat-out-untruths/
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October 9, 2012 8:18am
Keeping Stock

As we all sat down to our dinners last night, SMOG descended over Wainuiomata courtesy of guess who. Given that we the taxpayers have funded his lifestyle since 1984 (with a three-year break 1990-93), don’t we have a right to expect better from our “leaders”?

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/smog-over-wainuiomata.html
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October 9, 2012 8:20am
liarbors a joke

@Yvette

Petrols harmful, kfc’s harmful, alcohols harmful…should the govt ban or restrict sales of these?
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October 9, 2012 8:21am
Monique Watson

The housewife has spoken on matters fiscal:
http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2012/10/russell-norman-suggests-currency-war.html

I may just refer to myself in the third person from now on. Gives one an elevated sense of importance. Someone tell me why we shouldn’t fix our dollar? I know it seems a bit socialist but wouldn’t it be satisfying. Well, for me anyway when I come back for a holiday.
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October 9, 2012 8:33am
iMP

Griff you’re right. One guy writes (probably a fraud, Einstein talked about God all his life) and Pwuffff religion is defeated. What would we do without you, and ebay?
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October 9, 2012 8:34am
Yvette

liarbors a joke – one
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October 9, 2012 8:43am
Pete George

Feliz Marwick reviews the Dotcom saga and summarises the spy problem:

Political Report: Trusting our spy agencies

The GCSB and the SIS have a legal and moral obligation not to break the rules that govern them.

We should be able to trust our intelligence agencies to do their jobs properly. They’re breaching that trust and that’s not acceptable, particularly for organisations that have limited obligations in the way of public accountability.

Those that are responsible for them have a duty to make sure they toe the line. For the agencies and their political masters, in this case the Prime Minister, to fail in this regard is inexcusable.

And it would be inexcusable not to deal with this as openly as secrecy requirements allow. It has to be seen to be addressed, more than adequately.

It’s up to John Key. Trust of our spy agencies and our PM are at stake
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October 9, 2012 8:45am
Griff

I posted the link to Einstein s letter for those that find this sort of thing mildly amusing.
We find views like yours even more so keep up the good work imp.
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October 9, 2012 8:48am
nasska

Griff

In the time honoured tradition of God botherers everywhere one of their more deluded will probably buy the letter & burn it.

Religion: gently returning us to the Dark Ages.
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October 9, 2012 9:01am
MT_Tinman

From the NZ Herald;

A New Zealander is arrested overseas or detained at an airport every week,

You’d think (s)he’d give up travelling wouldn’t you.
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October 9, 2012 9:04am
Pete George

Correct link for above post – Political Report: Trusting our spy agencies

It’s more than trusting our spy agencies, it’s trusting the PM’s oversight as well.
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October 9, 2012 9:09am
iMP

Nassaka. Silly, it was the Church that dragged secular life out of the Dark Ages. Read earth history.
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October 9, 2012 9:11am
TheContrarian

“Einstein talked about God all his life”

Einstein never believed in a personal God and used “god” in the Spinoza sense. Much like Stephen Hawking.
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October 9, 2012 9:19am
MT_Tinman

iMP (798) Says:
October 9th, 2012 at 9:11 am
Nassaka. Silly, it was the Church that dragged secular life out of the Dark Ages. Read earth history.

Of course it was Nassaka.

Had the church not invented the printing press the dark ages would continue today.
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October 9, 2012 9:21am
nasska

iMP

I’ve read a bit of it. I’m still fascinated about the way the Popes took their collective eyes off the ball in & about the 14th century. It’s not hard to argue that it was only the fact that they were overstretched & occupied by various wars that allowed their power to wane & the church’s grip on society to loosen.

It was only when the gifts of literacy escaped the monastery walls that progress within Europe was kindled.
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October 9, 2012 9:23am
TheContrarian

“Had the church not invented the printing press the dark ages would continue today.”

You mean had Johannas Gutenberg, a blacksmith, not invented it
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October 9, 2012 9:26am
hj

The Coming Infrastructure Crisis in Texas
by Angie Schmitt

The way Texas throws around money for highways — $5.2 billion for a third outer-belt for Houston, $2 billion for Dallas’ eighth downtown highway – you would think TxDOT was running over with cheddar. This is a state, need we remind you, that “found” $350 million for a stalled highway project local leaders freely admit was designed to encourage sprawl, not solve any pressing mobility problems.

A Texas-sized pothole in Dallas. Photo: CBS DFW
But the Lone Star State is on a crash course toward a big infrastructure crisis, according to a new report from TRIP [PDF], a think tank supported by road builders, insurance agencies and other interest groups.
http://dc.streetsblog.org/2012/10/04/the-coming-infrastructure-crisis-in-texas/
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October 9, 2012 9:31am
nasska

This ‘Gutenberg’ was a bit of a character. From ‘Wikipaedia’…

1) Around 1439, Gutenberg was involved in a financial misadventure making polished metal mirrors (which were believed to capture holy light from religious relics) for sale to pilgrims to Aachen…

2) One of the profit-making enterprises of the new press was the printing of thousands of indulgences for the church, documented from 1454–55.

Not beyond digging into the purses of the gullible religious nutters. 🙂
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October 9, 2012 9:35am
MT_Tinman

TheContrarian (299) Says:
October 9th, 2012 at 9:26 am
“Had the church not invented the printing press the dark ages would continue today.”

You mean had Johannas Gutenberg, a blacksmith, not invented it

If you gotta explain you’ve lost ……….. so I won’t!
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October 9, 2012 9:41am
TheContrarian

I just don’t know why anyone would say the Church invented the press when it was actually a single blacksmith.
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October 9, 2012 9:42am
iMP

Good book to read is, “How the Irish Saved Civilisation” (Thomas Cahill) the story of how the remote Celtic Christian monasteries and clusters preserved pre-Dark Age knowledge, preserved the Classics, and kept the light of civilisation burning during the Dark Ages. Their illuminated manuscripts alone preserved much of the knowledge we have today.
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October 9, 2012 9:44am
TheContrarian

iMP is funny.
The Church invented the printing press, saved us from the Dark Ages and Einstein discussed god his whole life.
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October 9, 2012 9:46am
adamsmith1922

I am bemused by the furore over Huawei. If I was a conspiracy nut I would be more concerned over all those Apples, iPhones etc and Dells manufactured by Foxconn and others in China where it would be possible to make them subservient to the PLA. What about all the software manufactured in Singapore and China and Thailand.

Much of the furore is I think Yellow Perilitic, plus the cooking up of artifical trade barriers to protect home industries.
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October 9, 2012 9:48am
Pete George

New Zealand trying to compete in exchange rate manipulation is akin to the minnow humping the shark.
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October 9, 2012 9:50am
Manolo

The Luddites get hammered: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/editorials/7784620/Editorial-Greens-plan-misses-the-mark
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October 9, 2012 10:01am
kowtow

nasska et al

It was the Protestant reformers (cough cough) who were Largely ,but not exclusively,responsible for the spread of the vernacular.
Those same Protestants were also responsible,due to their fundamentalism,for the opposition to absolute monarchs for the growth and spread of modern democracy. From England to America primarily.

The west owes a huge debt of gratitude to the corruption in Rome that made the Reformation possible.
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October 9, 2012 10:05am
KH

It seems the National Party is finding it hard to do anything right. It’s not Dotcom, hollywood, or stuff like that. Thats whats showing. Whats driving the parties problem is the economy (“stupid”) When your kid can’t get a job, when whole towns are at risk of being shut down, and you pay more rates and get more rules instead of service, you aint happy. The list goes on.
Voters are worried for themselves, with good reason.
The fundamentals, being able to get a job that pays enough for what you need, and being able to build a life and family is what the voters want.
Can the National Party see that. Perhaps not. Which means they won’t be in government long.
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October 9, 2012 10:07am
kowtow

imp

You are quite right about Irish monasticism.The Byzantines were also players.

However trying to educate the kb fundy atheists is impossible ,they are blinded by their own ignorance and arrogance. Leave them to the incoming Muslim horde,we as people of the book can continue our lives paying jizya,they will end up in a dump with their throats slit.
Having said that I suspect more than a few of them given the choice of converting to Islam or getting a razor job, might see the light and become fervent camel humpers!
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October 9, 2012 10:13am
TheContrarian

I’m an atheist but neither ignorant or arrogant. In fact, I am not even a ‘fundy’ because while I live my life as an atheist I know I can never know for sure. Anyone who says they know for sure their God exists (or lack thereof) is lying.
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October 9, 2012 10:27am
Kleva Kiwi

iMP (800) Says:
October 9th, 2012 at 9:11 am
Nassaka. Silly, it was the Church that dragged secular life out of the Dark Ages. Read earth history.

Wow… And you are a teacher? If this is the standard capability of teachers in NZ we are all in trouble… I think you need to go read earth history (clue, the earth was not created in 7 days)
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October 9, 2012 10:30am
TheContrarian

I’d still really like to hear about how Einstein talked about God his whole life.
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October 9, 2012 10:32am
MT_Tinman

TheContrarian, I don’t know how you can live as an atheist.

Man needs gods, evidenced by the fact that he has invented so many over time.

Personally I believe in quantity over quality and have several.
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October 9, 2012 10:34am
TheContrarian

“Man needs gods”

I have no need of a God and believe in none. I could be wrong, sure. But I don’t need it and never have believed in a god/s.

“evidenced by the fact that he has invented so many over time”

Gods have been invented to explain earthquakes, lightening, bad luck, good luck and strokes of fate. God/s that have been invented have filled the gaps. That is far more likely suggestion than because we somehow ‘need’ them.
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October 9, 2012 10:35am
nasska

You’re a dismal bugger ‘kowtow’. Who else would give options of a joyless existence under Christianity, dhimmitude under an oppressive Islamic regime or a relatively benign death?

It must be your dour Gaelic heritage shining through. 🙂
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October 9, 2012 10:39am
TheContrarian

well, just to clarify before someone calls me a fundy atheist or some other epitaph, I am not an anti-theist. Believe what you will, that’s your business. But don’t pretend you have monopoly on truth, morality or authority on how others should behave.

That’s just arrogance
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October 9, 2012 10:50am
Manolo

Man needs gods, evidenced by the fact that he has invented so many over time.
Personally I believe in quantity over quality and have several.

A dissenting opinion: I take the minimalistic approach and have none.
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October 9, 2012 10:52am
kowtow

Joyless existence,nasska? Not when you can brew and distill to your hearts content.
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October 9, 2012 10:55am
nasska

TheContrarian

No one has ever eclipsed Michel de Montaigne when he pointed out that, “Man is certainly stark mad: he cannot make a worm, yet he will make gods by the dozen.”
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October 9, 2012 11:00am
TheContrarian

I like Douglas Adams:

“Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, “This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in — fits me rather neatly, doesn’t it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!” This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it’s still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything’s going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise.”
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October 9, 2012 11:02am
Pete George

KH – I think one of National’s overall problems (amongst a slew of specific problems) is a leadership disconnect, touched on by Colin James in his ODT column today.

“It appears English and the Prime Minister share less these days than efficient government requires”

If National don’t get it together at the top then what we are seeing could be the beginnings of a major falling apart – of the party and the Government. It hasn’t been a good look.

Key and English disconnect?
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October 9, 2012 11:04am
Manolo

Ah, the ineffable Double Dipton English. Isn’t he the same who leaked Don Brash’s e-mails?
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October 9, 2012 11:07am
TheContrarian

@ PG – I think this government is in real danger of slipping to pieces. There seems to be not only a disconnect between Key and English but Key and the front bench.
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October 9, 2012 11:08am
Scott Chris

New Zealand trying to compete in exchange rate manipulation is akin to the minnow humping the shark.

You don’t compete – you regulate. Floating the dollar is a free market mechanism that is supposed to endow the dollar with its true value. As the dollar is plainly overvalued, this hasn’t happened so some sort of financial transactions tax on speculators might be the go.

…..As well as printing money. (cue the shrieks and howls) Just another money supply control mechanism really. If inflationary pressure is created (most likelily in the employment and real estate markets) then there is no reason why you can’t cut back or raise interest rates. The trick is to inject it where it is a) needed and b) where there is idle plant and machinery and labour.
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October 9, 2012 11:21am
Longknives

TheContrarian- “while I live my life as an atheist I know I can never know for sure. ”

Then surely you are an Agnostic? Comments such as “I can never know for sure” will be met with howls of smug derision from all-knowing Athiests…
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October 9, 2012 11:26am
TheContrarian

“Then surely you are an Agnostic?”

No because I live my life as an atheist and I don’t believe in the divine. When I say “I can’t be sure” I mean that because I can’t be sure then there is no point worrying about it or attempting to believe in any one god/s or other ideas such as we are an experiment on a petri-dish because they are unknowable. I am an atheist towards all the Gods of men however but that doesn’t preclude the fact if our universe were created by something not divine (such as in a particle collider or as a great experiment on another plane) then those creating would be indistinguishable from Gods anyway…and would not care for worship.

But, like I said previously, anyone who says they know for sure is lying.
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October 9, 2012 11:32am
Longknives

TheContrarian- I consider myself Agnostic as I havn’t got a clue about the mysteries of life.

“But, like I said previously, anyone who says they know for sure is lying.”
Correct- This is my point. Athiests always seem to smugly “know for sure” and belittle anyone who thinks otherwise.
I’d rather put a dollar each way, try to respect other peoples religious beliefs, and be a (mostly) good boy. Just in case….
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October 9, 2012 11:42am
LabourDoesntWork

If appealing to Albert Einstein as an authority on the Bible is meaningful then does anyone know what the great physicist thought about butter versus margerine? And how did he explain why Americans say “aluminum”? Thanks – I’ve been dying to find out.
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October 9, 2012 11:44am
TheContrarian

I think the likelihood if there being a god/s like that have been invented by men unlikely in the extreme. So unlikely as to be treated as though non-existent. Thereby I am an atheist towards the gods of men due to their often contradictory nature and lack of consistency. A true perfect being would be perfect in every way and would be consistent across all faiths.

Therefore one can be logically atheist towards the gods of man and live happily in their non-existence.

However, as I previously said, if our universe were created or our planet seeded then the technology that managed it would be indistinguishable from a god – as per Arthur C Clark:

“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”
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October 9, 2012 11:49am
Viking2

Talking Einsteins’ look at what our Cabinet Einstein’s have done today.

The Government is introducing a new pay rate for 16-19-year-olds of a minimum $10.80 an hour.

The new pay rate, to be called the ‘starting-out wage’, will not be compulsory but 40,000 teens will be eligible.

It kicks in on April 1 next year
Five fucking years to come up with a bullshit answer like that.
Key and co deserve booting out of office if that’s the extent of their brain power. Fucking useless brainless people.

Under National’s watch, 65,158 young Kiwis aged between 18-30 have headed to Australia looking for better jobs and opportunities, 21,733 this year alone.

Tertiary Education, Skills and Employment Minister Steven Joyce said a progress report showed Government actions had helped ‘‘lift labour productivity, drive sustained economic growth and deliver higher wages and living standards’’.

I once thought that Joyce actually had some brains but clearly being in Govt. sucks them out and leaves a void.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/7787031/Govt-sets-starting-out-youth-wage
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October 9, 2012 12:12pm
Manolo

The race tightens: http://www.gallup.com/poll/157907/romney-narrows-vote-gap-historic-debate-win.aspx
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October 9, 2012 12:18pm
James Stephenson

Athiests always seem to smugly “know for sure” and belittle anyone who thinks otherwise.

Yeak ok, I’ll bite. Although I recognise that proving a negative (ie that no god exists) is logically impossible, the fact that there are a) highly satisfactory god-free explanations for everything since nanoseconds post-big bang and b) a complete lack of evidence for a god, the efficacy of praying to any of them, yada yada yada, my level of certainty for the non-existence of deities approaches 100%. I won’t say “asymptotically” ‘cos that might sound a bit too smug.
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October 9, 2012 12:19pm
Redbaiter

Yesterday the prominent blogger Whale, who prefers to be seen as right wing, honoured the Hollywood communist Matt Damon with Face of The Day.

Today its another Hollywood socialist, Arnold Schwarzneggar, the progressive pansy who while he was (Republican) governor allowed Kalifornia to fall ever further into the hands of the left.

The liberal Arnold was so ineffective that Kalifornia is today on the verge of complete economic collapse.

I cannot fathom why someone wishing to portray themselves as right wing would ever salute such far left imbeciles as Damon and Schwarzneggar.
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October 9, 2012 12:20pm
Manolo

Socialist mistake repeated over and over: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2214595/More-400-1million-homes-Paris-market-millionaires-flee-Hollandes-socialist-tax-hikes.html
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October 9, 2012 12:22pm
Manolo

I expect Whale to honour George Clooney, Jeniffer Lopez, and Eva Longoria next. What’s wrong with the man?
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October 9, 2012 12:24pm
Viking2

And of course nicely forward dated so the students this year won’t be able to gain employment at the lower rate.

Totally dishonest.

The Government is introducing a new pay rate for 16-19-year-olds of a minimum $10.80 an hour.

Meanwhile student Job Search is telling Students the should be paid $18.00

Another bunch of willy wankers that should be disbanded.
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October 9, 2012 12:25pm
James Stephenson

Re: Aluminium v Aluminum. Sir Humphrey Davy, who discovered it, originally called it “Aluminum” then changed his mind and called it “Aluminium” to fit with other metal like Sodium and Potassium. Whichever America’s go-to dictionary was never caught up, so when the metal started to enter more common usage, that’s the version that became predominant.

I’ll let them off that, but not the butchering of dropping things like the ‘u’ from colour…
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October 9, 2012 12:25pm
Pete George

What the Fuqua?

Charlie Fuqua Endorses Death Penalty For Rebellious Children In Book

Charlie Fuqua, the Republican candidate for the Arkansas House of Representatives who called for expelling Muslims from the United States in his book, also wrote in support for instituting the death penalty for “rebellious children.”

In “God’s Law,” Fuqua’s 2012 book, the candidate wrote that while parents love their children, a process could be set up to allow for the institution of the death penalty for “rebellious children,” according to the Arkansas Times. Fuqua, who is anti-abortion, points out that the course of action involved in sentencing a child to death is described in the Bible and would involve judicial approval.

While it is unlikely that many parents would seek to have their children killed by the government, Fuqua wrote, such power would serve as a way to stop rebellious children.

I wonder how many will support him on that.
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October 9, 2012 12:26pm
Redbaiter

“I once thought that Joyce actually had some brains but clearly being in Govt. sucks them out and leaves a void.”

National are hopeless. Some there have a clue, but only a very few. The party is really no counter to the socialist forces strangling this country at all, and especially so with John Key as its leader.

A man with no other motive for being PM than since has was a schoolboy he “always wanted to be one”.

This should be enough to alert most rational people as to how much use he was ever going to be.

The National Party and its blind supporters have been soundly defeated by the left, and it is their surrender that is at the root of almost every one of this country’s problems.
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October 9, 2012 12:26pm
Viking2

Easy Red. Whale is about as right wing as DPF. He just has less tolerance of the left of centre and foolishness of what they do.
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October 9, 2012 12:27pm
Manolo

I believe they should establish a Commission for Families to look into that scandalous suggestion. Similar to the wildly successful NZ experiment.
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October 9, 2012 12:29pm
Manolo

Easy Red. Whale is about as right wing as DPF.

Easy Viking2. I choke on my lunch when I read that.
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October 9, 2012 12:32pm
Viking2

Now the fun begins.

A Megaupload user who legitimately stored his data on the file-sharing website is fighting to get his data back in a legal first.

Ohio videographer Kyle Goodwin lost his files when Megaupload was shut down in January following the Auckland raids on its founder, Kim Dotcom.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation has taken the case on behalf of Mr Goodwin, and a US District Court judge will set a hearing date once lawyers for both sides file briefings for the case next week.

One of the Foundation’s lawyers, Julie Samuels, told Radio New Zealand today the case had been before the courts for months and they hoped to have it completed as soon as possible.

“It is pretty straight forward … There are some logistical concerns about how you actually get the data off the servers, how you identify the data, but we think this is the US Government’s responsibility and something the US Government should have taken into account when it seized all of Megaupload’s assets and executed the search warrants on those servers.”

The Foundation is representing only Mr Goodwin, but Ms Samuels said there could be “millions” of users in the same position.

“There are innocent third party users who did not breach the law, and they would like their stuff back.”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10839309
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October 9, 2012 12:35pm
Pete George

Refusing access to everyone’s data is one of the stinkiest aspects of the Dotcom case.
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October 9, 2012 12:45pm
RF

Jaba. 8.17am…..

Choked hearing the Glove Puppet Hughes from the Greens telling Susan Wood on Newstalk ZB this morning that China and the US were spying on us.

Little twit..
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October 9, 2012 12:49pm
kowtow

james stephenson

The yanks drop their “u”s but have you noticed how so many Aotearoans drop the ‘r’ from brought?
I’ve seen it in print in newspapers too. And now broadband is being pronounced as “boardband.”
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October 9, 2012 1:11pm
Paulus

Did I not read that Shearer and Norman attend the 6 monthly Security Oversight Committee meetings ?
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October 9, 2012 1:12pm
Pete George

Peter Dunne has effectively challenged National over Huawei and the GCSB foasco.

Dunne: Huawei Issue Exposes Price of GCSB Blunders

Concerns around Chinese communications giant Huawei are of “critical importance and need to be explored but there are huge doubts about whether the GCSB can do that job for New Zealand”, UnitedFuture Leader Peter Dunne said today.

“New Zealand is now paying the price for the GCSB’s Dotcom failures. We have a crisis in confidence in a critical agency of the State.

“Basically, are they up to it? That is a question we have not seriously had to ask before.

“The Huawei issue highlights the trust we now do not have in the GCSB – they have totally shot themselves in the foot,” Mr Dunne said.

He said that the concerns raised by the United States intelligence committee about Huawei are very serious, and the Government needs to treat them seriously.

“Whether we like it or not – and regardless of the many good aspects of New Zealand’s burgeoning relationship with China – they have a history of blatant intellectual property theft and are a growing military superpower,” Mr Dunne said.

“When the United States warns against doing business with Huawei, and Australia would not let them provide their national broadband network, why are we dismissing their concerns so lightly?

“Who is going to protect New Zealand’s security interests here? Tough questions need to be asked,” Mr Dunne said.

Who’s going to ask the tough questions? And will they be answered if they’re asked?
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October 9, 2012 1:23pm
TheContrarian

“The yanks drop their “u”s but have you noticed how so many Aotearoans drop the ‘r’ from brought?

Brought and bought are two different words. Brought is to bring something and bought is to purchase something
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October 9, 2012 1:30pm
Pete George

Plus : Opposition raises Huawei concerns

Labour is calling for the Government to launch a full independent inquiry into Huawei’s share of its $1.35 billion broadband rollout.

Its acting information technology spokesman David Cunliffe said the US claims of spying and corruption raised potential national security concerns.

“Kiwis have lost confidence in our intelligence agencies since the Dotcom saga so an independent investigation is needed.”

Labour had been raising concerns about the company since March, he said.

Greens information technology spokesman Gareth Hughes said the Government had to protect New Zealand’s economy, information and intellectual property from cyber-attack.

“The New Zealand taxpayer shouldn’t be giving Huawei hundreds of millions of dollars to make it easier for Beijing to potentially spy on us.”

This follows:

…fresh security concerns were raised by the US intelligence committee.

The committee said it received credible allegations Huawei may be guilty of bribery and corruption, discriminatory behaviour and copyright infringement, and has recommended US network providers look for other suppliers for their projects.

The Government ‘says it takes allegations of cyber spying seriously after calls for it to reassess its involvement with Huawei’.

We need to see how seriously.
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October 9, 2012 1:33pm
Manolo

Will David, the wimp, make room for Boris?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/9595054/Conservative-Party-conference-hit-by-Borismania.html
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October 9, 2012 1:34pm
Manolo

A revealing poll: http://militarytimes.com/news/2012/10/military-times-poll-romney-bests-obama-2-1-100712/
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October 9, 2012 2:34pm
joana

Huawei are banned in Aussie but of course , ”open doors ” in New Tibet.
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October 9, 2012 2:41pm
meh

Some weeks back there was a religious debate going on (how uncommon on KB) and it was mentioned that people should read the God Delusion by Dawkins, a response was posted advocating reading another book which gave an alternative view (on religious history I think).

I didn’t write down the name of that book… does anyone recall the conversation and the name of the book?! I’m looking for some new reading material..
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October 9, 2012 2:41pm
TheContrarian

“God Delusion by Dawkins”

Awful book.

There’s a few here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Delusion#Responding_books
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October 9, 2012 2:49pm
meh

Thanks Contrarian – I’ve not read the God Delusion yet, about to start as I want to see what the fuss is about….
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October 9, 2012 2:52pm
TheContrarian

It’s OK but not great – Dawkins is better when he sticks to biology. If you want to read a good book about God (or lack thereof) Christopher Hitchens ‘God is not Great’ is better
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October 9, 2012 3:01pm
meh

Found it – Mere Christianity by C S Lewis – I have no idea the slant / merit of the book, I’m just trying to find some reading material that isn’t related to governance frameworks or business alignment 😛

(I’ll check out that book too)
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October 9, 2012 3:04pm
chiz

iMP:Good book to read is, “How the Irish Saved Civilisation” (Thomas Cahill) the story of how the remote Celtic Christian monasteries and clusters preserved pre-Dark Age knowledge, preserved the Classics, and kept the light of civilisation burning during the Dark Ages. Their illuminated manuscripts alone preserved much of the knowledge we have today.

Sounds like revisionist bollocks.
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October 9, 2012 3:24pm
chiz

Looking at a recent necrology, I see that the science fiction author Harry Harrison has recently died. He was probably best known for his 1966 novel Make Room! Make Room! which was turned into the movie Soylent Green.
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October 9, 2012 3:53pm
Scott Chris

Oh for God’s sake, Huawei is a huge privately owned company who has far too much to lose if ever they were found to be embedding spying hardware in the fiber network.

Dunne and co are simply pandering to silly popular paranoia. Business as usual I guess.
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October 9, 2012 3:59pm
Komata

Scott: Huawei may be a ‘huge privately owned company’ as you say, but never forget that, in China (COMMUNIST China) the state is always involved. It’s the way the Politburo has arranged things and it is the way they want things to be seen, but Big Brother is ALWAYS in the background. It’s the Chinese way. Because of that certain states in the West has very good reason to be concerned, and to take appropriate action based upon that concern. You have perhaps heard of the old saying about a wolf in sheep’s clothing? That describes this situation vis a vis the Chinese very well.
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October 9, 2012 4:09pm
bereal

If you have a couple of spare moments,
which is the best version, this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26DD0JwAbAc
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October 9, 2012 4:51pm
bereal

or this ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw3U0nQwNco
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October 9, 2012 4:55pm
chiz

The first one is much much better.
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October 9, 2012 5:12pm
LabourDoesntWork

Johnny Cash, second, for first!
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October 9, 2012 5:33pm
Steve (North Shore)

Looks like Tyson may be coming:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10839387

Immigration is going all touchy feely because Willie Jackson took center stage.

Tell you what Mr Key, your core National voters have just about had enough of sucking up to Moari demands. If you let Tyson in, you have to let all those with a criminal record in. Who is running this country? National or Moari?
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October 9, 2012 6:23pm
Longknives

“If you let Tyson in, you have to let all those with a criminal record in. ”

They pretty much do let anyone in- that’s the point. Getting upset over this convicted child-murderer swanning around Wellington Steve?
http://www.3news.co.nz/NZ-second-home-to-films-convicted-star/tabid/418/articleID/263120/Default.aspx

Or is it okay if they are a ’cause de celebre’??
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October 9, 2012 6:31pm
Steve (North Shore)

I don’t watch TV3 News or TV1 News Longknives. Well not if I can help it.

Get Peter Jackson to give Tyson a bit part in a shit movie and then he can visit yeah? I know, a bad hobbit type thug would be good.
Tyson and the like can piss of, and so can Willie Jackson
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October 9, 2012 6:40pm
bereal

Hey, Steve(North Shore) @ 6.23

this is one you have got wrong Steve.

Even if Tyson had not been set up for his rape charge (and that another story)
i would like to see him here.

Don’t let Tysons visit get confused with local bullshit.
Such as, ” Maori Demands”

i think the Country as a whole have now just about had a gutsfull of, ‘Maori Demands’
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October 9, 2012 6:43pm
Steve (North Shore)

What have I got wrong bereal?

Tyson in his prime was good. He’s way past his expiration date – he’s a nostalgia act now. But, I always remember him in his prime.. and the quote is one of life’s truths:

“Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face”

Now he is a criminal, there should be NO exceptions for allowing a Visa just because of who he is and now using the Moari lever
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October 9, 2012 6:50pm
Longknives

“Get Peter Jackson to give Tyson a bit part in a shit movie and then he can visit yeah?”

Tyson was in Hangover 2- It was fucking awful…..(Does that count?)
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October 9, 2012 6:51pm
Longknives

“Tyson in his prime was good.”

Tyson in his prime was better than good. He was potentially one of the greatest heavyweights of all time (I’m talking the Tyson that destroyed Spinks and Holmes).
It’s a shame he went off the rails- He could well have been up there with Louis, Marciano, Ali and co..
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October 9, 2012 6:56pm
Steve (North Shore)

Tyson owns his own shit
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October 9, 2012 6:59pm
Viking2

September has seen an increase in the number of people on benefits compared to the previous months, but figures this September are still the lowest in four years, Social Development Minister Paula Bennett says.

Last month the benefit figures rose by 0.5 per cent on the previous month, to 320,942.

But but things are getting better. Aren’t they?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10839380
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October 9, 2012 7:10pm

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