General Debate 27 July 2013

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kowtow

We should export Gareth Moggie Morgan to sort this out.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/10201769/Warning-to-tourists-in-France-after-attack-by-feral-cats.html
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July 27, 2013 8:13am
Keeping Stock

Whilst Hone Harawira was grandstanding and getting arrested at the Glen Innes housing protests, look where some of the houses ended up…

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2013/07/look-where-houses-ended-up.html

Harawira flies up and down the land at the taxpayer’s expense (he is one of the biggest-spending MP’s) making a lot of noise, but while he’s doing that, other people are rolling their sleeves up and actually helping the people of Te Tai Tokerau in a practical way. He’s all hui and no do-ee.
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July 27, 2013 8:38am
hj

According to Michael Lind, “a worldview is a more or less coherent understanding of the nature of reality, which permits its holders to interpret new information in light of their preconceptions. Clashes among worldviews cannot be ended by a simple appeal to facts. Even if rival sides agree on the facts, people may disagree on conclusions because of their different premises.” This is why politicians often seem to talk past one another, or ascribe different meanings to the same events. Tribal or national wars are often the result of incompatible worldviews. Lind has organized American political worldviews into five categories:
Neoliberal Globalism believes that at home governments should provide only basic public goods like infrastructure, health care and security, and do so by market-friendly methods
Social Democratic Liberalism claims an economic safety net, protecting citizens from unemployment, sickness, poverty in old age and other disasters, is necessary if democratic government is to retain popular support.
Populist Nationalism tends to favor restriction of legal as well as illegal immigration to protect the core stock of the tribe-state from dilution by different races, ethnic groups or religions. Populist nationalism also tends to favor protectionist policies that shield workers and businesses, particularly small businesses, from foreign competition.
Libertarian Isolationism would abandon foreign alliances, dismantle most of its military, and return to a 19th-century pattern of decentralized government and an economy based on small businesses and small farms.
Green Malthusianism synthesizes mystical versions of environmentalism with alarm about population growth in the tradition of the Rev. Thomas Malthus
Not all people will fit neatly into only one category or the other, but Lind argues that their core worldview shapes how they frame their arguments.[28]
http://www.cognitivepolicyworks.com/blog/2010/02/01/belief-and-worldview-in-politic/
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July 27, 2013 8:44am
Left Right and Centre

Beautiful perfect morning in sunny Wellington…

I’m back from running 10kms…. that’s sounds ok, right? Almost. Those were Friday’s 10kms, now I’ve still got the 10 for Saturday to catch up.

Have you ever just said fuck this dieting shit and gone on a food orgy?

Pick n mix, dairy sweets, 650g all up… home made custard cream biscuits… batch one with mandarin cream filling, batch two banana cream filling… and I made waaaaaay too much banana cream filling and ate the shit out the bowl- oh…. good times!!

Stoke your boilers with that much frickin energy and you find yourself doing things with it; lifting weights like your life depends on it… it’s not often that I actually *want* to lift weights and in a big hurry with my eyes lit up… hahahaha

I hope ‘The Scorned’ knows what he’s talking about- at least the 500g of butter the biscuits used won’t get stored as bodyfat. According to ‘Mr LCHF dieting philosophy’. You’d better be right ‘The Scorned’. But the sugar- enough to hyperactivate an entire primary school. At least having previously been overweight for years, the stomach apron stretch horse bolted years ago….
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July 27, 2013 9:07am
hj

Global Warming is a Virus
http://www.slideshare.net/lazlomemes/global-warming-is-a-virus
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July 27, 2013 9:08am
flipper

While we wring hands over our Sky Convention Centre deal, and labour and the red melons promise cancellation, South Australian politicians have joined forces to complete a deal for a 300 million extension to the Sky Adelaide complex.

Sky CEO, Nigel Morrison announced (according ANZ Securities):

*** ”
* An extension of 20 years to the South Australian casino exclusivity for
Adelaide Casino to 2035;
* Introduction of cashless gaming and Ticket-in Ticket-out;
* Lower gaming tax rates for VIP gaming;
* An increase in the number of gaming machines to 1,500;
* An increase in the number of gaming tables to 200, where 15 such tables may
be substituted for 300 automated table game terminals

“SKYCITY will invest over A$300 million to transform the Adelaide Casino into
a world-class integrated entertainment complex which will include Adelaide’s
first 6 star boutique hotel, celebrity and signature restaurants, world-class
VIP gaming experiences with ‘Horizon’ international suites with adjoining
private gaming salons, all as part of the new entertainment precinct on the
banks of the River Torrens.

“Integrated entertainment complexes, with a comprehensive range of offerings
including luxurious VIP facilities with outstanding dining experiences are
vital to attracting high end Asian, particularly Chinese tourists. Our
development will help South Australia attract a greater share of this
lucrative and growing market. With Adelaide’s outstanding wineries and
leading international golf courses we are very confident that we will be able
to package one of the best VIP experiences available in Australia,” says Mr
Morrison.

“SKYCITY’s investment will create much needed jobs and economic growth for
South Australia and complement the redeveloped Adelaide Oval and the new and
expanded Adelaide Convention Centre.

“We are pleased that the legislation has now been passed and that the casino
reforms facilitating the redevelopment of the Adelaide Casino were strongly
supported by both sides of Parliament. We now look forward to promptly
finalising the ALA and CDA agreements with the Government and commencing this
exciting redevelopment,” says Mr Morrison.” ***

NOW… HOW BAD WAS THE DEAL THAT Key, Joyce, English et al cut for our $400 Million centre?

What a pack of pussies in TV One, TV3, NZ Herald, Auckland City Council, Labour and red melon country. Oh, also Fran O’Sullivan. 🙂
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July 27, 2013 9:25am
Andrei

More bullshit from the UN
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July 27, 2013 9:27am
Paulus

Once gain we are seeing special treatment for Maori wanted in the bill put forward in Parliament, supported and pressed by the Unions, to make fishing boats operating in New Zealand waters, and part of the Maori Quota system, wanting to be exempt from new labour laws. More Special treatment again.
They say they cannot afford to buy boats, but stupid part Maori, who claim to be intelligent business men, should realise that they do not have to buy boats but like everybody else they charter them bareboat and put Maori crews on board.
Another Maori rort try on again again.
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July 27, 2013 9:29am
Griff

More thinking about others having bum sex from repressed anally obsessed Christians.
Andrei (2,115) Says:
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July 27, 2013 9:33am
edd

@ Left Right and Centre

I take vitamin d sups whenever I start craving dairy junk food. Works a treat when the sun stops shining.. Stops me wanting to bite young girls on the neck also…
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July 27, 2013 9:34am
peterwn

In tax fraud cases, the taxpayer is painted as the ‘victim’ since taxpayers have to pay more tax to cover revenue lost because of tax fraud. What utter bullshit. Where IRD manages to squeeze out more revenue by clobbering tax fraud, no noe hears the Government say – ‘our investigation work has been so successful that we will cut the tax rates next year’. Instead the Government will gladly receive and spend the extra money.
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July 27, 2013 9:37am
flipper

Paulus… @9.29

But a wonderful, clever, dastardly plot to trap Labour and the red melons, is it not?

Allow Maori the exemption and the CTU will have to say nothing, do nothing (except create a precedent) – and blow its case from the water.

Decline the exemption, and Labour loses more Maori support.

Heads Nats win, tails Labour/red melons lose. 🙂 🙂
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July 27, 2013 9:37am
hj

According to The Nation Chinese banks are lending on NZ houses at cheaper rates… for those who can access them. $1000,000 for a cut in half kiwi section with a shared driveway.
National/Labour do nothing
**** this is good for my friends at Omaha Beach.
**** “we progressives of the internationalist tradition….”
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July 27, 2013 9:37am
nickb

Peter Dunne’s flip flopping and hpyocrisy:

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/nz-politics-daily-peter-dunne-flips-and-then-he-flops-ck-143280

First Peter Dunne flipped and this week he flopped. Dunne appears to have changed his mind twice now on the controversial GCSB reforms.

And there’s a fair amount of condemnation over these U-turns, and speculation about what motivations lie behind it all. Fascinatingly, it’s political journalist Andrea Vance who has penned the most hard-hitting analysis of Dunne’s latest change of heart– see: Dunne GCSB u-turn no surprise.

Not only does Vance point out just how little Dunne has won in his negotiations over the GCSB legislation, but she calls into question Dunne’s principles and motives, saying that Dunne’s original flip-flop – when he withdrew support for the GCSB changes – might in retrospect be seen as merely a cynical attempt to ‘rehabilitate his public image’.

The latest U-turn, will, according to Vance, ‘cement the view that he is prepared to trade principles for pragmatics to secure his political future. With that in mind, pundits will watch keenly for any signals of electoral accommodations by National in Dunne’s Ohariu electorate next year’.

Vance is not the only one unimpressed with both the GCSB reforms and Peter Dunne. Gordon Campbell says that ‘Dunne has re-assumed his usual posture as the government’s reliable footstool’ and the ‘changes that Dunne has won as a pre-condition of his support could hardly be more token’. As for the state of the legislation, Campbell says ‘For a government elected partly on campaigning against Nanny State intrusions, the GCSB Bill is indefensible, in its current form’ – see: On Peter Dunne’s illusory gains on the GCSB Bill.

So what has Dunne really got out of his capitulation on the GCSB reforms? Watch Rebecca Wright’s entertaining 5-minute Campbell Live item, In return for Dunne’s GCSB vote. She explains the concessions that Dunne achieved, but also lampoons his U-turn.

The NBR also speculates that the MP has done a deal to ensure his ‘email exchange with reporter Andrea Vance is now less likely to see the light of day’ – see: Swing vote Dunne supports GCSB Bill after changing tune on domestic spying. It is also suggested, however, that Dunne won’t be able to get a ‘cup of tea’ deal with John Key for Ohariu, with ‘a Beehive insider quoted as saying ‘he’s already gone to the well once too often’. The NBR article also includes a critique of Dunne’s changes from Tech Liberty’s Thomas Beagle. For further condemnation of both the latest reform changes and of Dunne’s maneuvering, see No Right Turn’s Dunne sells us out.

Dunne has clearly disappointed those in opposition to the Government’s GCSB reforms – which is well conveyed in a heart-felt post on the Daily Blog: Peter Dunne, for a second there, we totally thought you were for real. The writer says that ‘Everybody was getting a soft spot for Peter Dunne. Weren’t we? We were beginning to love him a little. A little bit, right? Admit it…. But this bow-tie of a man has turned out to be ornamental after all. He has confirmed that he is what he always was, and it makes me want to cry’. But is such criticism really fair? United Future blogger Pete George obviously doesn’t think so, and outlines his defence of the MP in Dunne done over while parties piss and pose.

For more on the changes to the proposed reforms, and on why Rodney Harrison of the Law Society says it is still ‘rushed, ill-conceived and downright dangerous legislation’ see Audrey Young’s GCSB changes ‘do not address flaws’ – QC.
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July 27, 2013 9:41am
hj

Brash about to use the land supply meme… the population of China doesn’t come into it…. NZ’s population is tiny…,.

“this land is you’re land, this land is my land.. from Stewart Island to Outer Monogolia….”
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July 27, 2013 9:43am
nickb

In tax fraud cases, the taxpayer is painted as the ‘victim’ since taxpayers have to pay more tax to cover revenue lost because of tax fraud. What utter bullshit. Where IRD manages to squeeze out more revenue by clobbering tax fraud, no noe hears the Government say – ‘our investigation work has been so successful that we will cut the tax rates next year’. Instead the Government will gladly receive and spend the extra money.

Agreed peterwn. Even more galling is when IRD have the cheek to insinuate that NZ is being cheated out of funds for “roads, schools and hospitals” when the IRD wins a complex tax avoidance case. Especially when the facts, arrangements and legal arguments are so complex, and the structure was arguably legitimate at the time it was established (i.e. pre our IRD-fellating Supreme Court days).

I have always found the “parliamentary contemplation” test to be a shit stain on the tax system. Can you imagine even a quarter of our politicians reading tax legislation, much less understanding it and “contemplating” its purpose and how it should be applied? It seems to me the test is moving more to an “IRD contemplation” test. I.e., IRD states they think the structure is tax avoidance – and they win every time.
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July 27, 2013 9:45am
hj

Parker arguing without addressing immigration (which would be offensive to a whole lot of left-wing wankers… Chris Laidlaw, John Campbell to name but two) unlike the Savings Working Group:

“The big adverse gap in productivity between New Zealand and other countries opened up from the 1970s to the early 1990s. The policy choice that increased immigration – given the number of employers increasingly unable to pay First-World wages to the existing population and all the capital requirements that increasing populations involve – looks likely to have worked almost directly against the adjustment New Zealand needed to make and it might have been better off with a lower rate of net immigration. This adjustment would have involved a lower real interest rate (and cost of capital) and a lower real exchange rate, meaning a more favourable environment for raising the low level of productive capital per worker and labour productivity. The low level of capital per worker is a striking symptom of New Zealand’s economic challenge.
”
http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/reviews-consultation/savingsworkinggroup/pdfs/swg-report-jan11.pdf

80% of our population growth in the last couple of decades has been the net inflow of non NZ citizens .
“Among policy and analytical circles in New Zealand there is a pretty high degree of enthusiasm for high levels of immigration. Some of that stems from the insights of literature on increasing returns to scale. Whatever the general global story, the actual productivity track record here in the wake of very strong inward migration is poor. In an Australian context, the Productivity Commission – hardly a hot-bed of xenophobia or populism – concluded that any benefits from migration to Australia were captured by migrants and there were few or no discernible economic benefits to Australians. And that was in a country already rich and successful and with materially higher national saving and domestic investment rates than those in NZ.”
http://www.treasury.govt.nz/downloads/pdfs/mi-jarrett-comm.pdf
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July 27, 2013 9:49am
Griff

I hope Santa can swim
http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/climate-weather/stories/north-pole-melts-forms-lake-at-top-of-the-world
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July 27, 2013 9:49am
hj

The Nation
Parker says he isn’t going to go into alternative means of addressing house prices “now”… why would you on the “Nation”… people will see their policy… is mangled… ineffective?
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July 27, 2013 9:54am
edd

On the GCSB.

Just throwing this out there. But what are you guys gona do when we in NZ have our Obama moment and elect our first Maori PM. Are you gona be happy for him, whoever he is, to have full rights to spy on you.
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July 27, 2013 9:56am
wat dabney

Griff,

Areas of open water at the North Pole are nothing new, as the USS Skate found when she surfaced there in 1958.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/04/26/ice-at-the-north-pole-in-1958-not-so-thick/
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July 27, 2013 9:57am
hj

Don Brash trots out the developers NZ is only 0.07% urbanised meme. There are 3000,000 ha of farmland classified as the NZ high country, the average size of a sheep station is 10,000ha……. smaller that they aren’t economic.
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July 27, 2013 9:58am
joana

The front page of the Press has an article re a morbidly obese South African who is likely to be deported because of his weight and possible health costs..Huge American and British women have been denied entry..But thousands of chain smoking Asian and Middle Eastern men are allowed to move here..What about their health costs?? They move here at the same time as millions [I don’t know how much ] of dollars are thrown at Tariana’s smoke free NZ by 2015?? dream..Sometimes I see so many double standards here my head spins.
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July 27, 2013 9:58am
Nookin

edd

The fact that he/she is Maori will make a difference because?
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July 27, 2013 9:59am
Reid

According to The Nation Chinese banks are lending on NZ houses at cheaper rates… for those who can access them.

That’s right hj. And if we had a govt that cared about the truth, they would have told their Akld voters that this is why young people have been priced out of the market. But such truth is politically inconvenient vis-a-vis the China FTA, that’s why they pretend it’s a supply problem and ignore completely the demand side. But sadly for them, you can’t fool all the people all the time, especially when said people keep turning up to auctions and keep getting outbid by people with Asian faces. That’s just a bit too difficult to hide.

The real point is, if the Nats had any political strategists who knew what they were doing, they would have told them this policy of wilful ignorance is going to damage them, because as more and more people awaken to what has been the obvious driver behind the overheated Akld property market, they’re going to look at this govt’s track record of pretending it doesn’t exist, and switch their vote. Whereas it would have been quite the elementary thing to do a few years ago to front foot the issue and put a plan into place that managed the issue without affecting the FTA, which again is quite a simple thing to do.

But no. I guess this is what happens when the strategy team consists of a PM who doesn’t understand anything political other than how to be a centrist follower, a Machiavellian (McCully) who doesn’t give a shit about anything except growing his Akld property portfolio and someone like Brownlee, who acts just like Fat Bastard did except he doesn’t have Fat Bastard’s brains.
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July 27, 2013 10:00am
wat dabney

hj,

But you’re not disputing that NZ is only 0.07% urbanised.
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July 27, 2013 10:02am
martinh

The Nations a good program. I had no idea asians were getting cheap mortgages in China and using that to outbid Aucklanders for real estate.
Lucky Jaffas get what they deserve. Go Asia!
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July 27, 2013 10:05am
martinh

If only Shearer wasnt leader they would be able to gain on this property problem as its not just first time owners getting fuked on by this its all aucklanders having to stretch their mortgage.
Key probably wants to upgrade his wife to an asian
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July 27, 2013 10:08am
hj

hj,

But you’re not disputing that NZ is only 0.07% urbanised.
……..
no my point is that there has to be an economic justification for immigration policies other than a people servicing ponzi scheme.

The Illusion of Growth Economics: Can Cities Like Charlotte Reinvent Themselves?

Rapidly growing cities benefit from scale economics. As a city grows, it spreads the fixed costs of providing services across more units, thus lowering unit costs and enabling taxes to stay low. This is doubly true as cities spread into undeveloped “greenfields,” where there are few legacy costs. This can make cities look well managed when in fact they are simply benefitting from growth.
The real question is what happens when the growth cycle ends and unit costs either flatline or start going up. Can the city find sustainability demographically, economically and fiscally without growth as a fuel?
http://www.governing.com/blogs/view/col-charlotte-cities-illusion-growth-economics.html
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July 27, 2013 10:09am
edd

@ Nookin

Because there are a whole bunch of people living in NZ who don’t want a Maori activist PM spying on them in the future. Just like there are a whole bunch of Maori activists who don’t want the National government spying on them either. It’s setting up for an idiotic tit for tat. You spy on us today and we’ll spy on you tomorrow…

Mass paranoia isn’t the goal of this bill, but it’s going to be one of the main consequences. John Key has to be out of his mind to push this one through. Raising the stakes at the next election like that.
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July 27, 2013 10:13am
hj

Melbourne/Auckland Sucking Vampire Squids:

“”While the other boom states have been driven by mining exports, Victoria’s boom has been driven by high immigration,” Birrell says. ”This created a buoyant economy, thanks to a rapidly-growing people servicing sector and migrant servicing sector.”
In other words, Melbourne is growing for the sake of growing, racing towards a population of 5 million, using other people’s money. Just how big is that great sucking force from the south? Enormous. In the 2008-09 financial year, Victoria imported $70.2 billion in goods and services. It produced only $34.5 billion in exports, less than half its imports, a deficit of $35.7 billion.
Western Australia, by contrast, had exports of $94 billion in 2008-09 and imports of $42.8 billion, a mammoth $51.2 billion surplus. The equivalent of 70 per cent of that surplus ended up in Victoria as deficit spending. No wonder West Australians are in a state of outrage.
”Melbourne now requires increased financial assistance . . . to pay for its city building to keep up with all this population growth,” Birrell says. ”Victoria’s biggest export industry, by far, is education. But the boom in the overseas student industry is not going to last for long because of the federal government’s crackdown on the vocational training industry.”
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/the-yarra-monster-is-killing-us-20100822-13apt.html#ixzz22GnjXjDy
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July 27, 2013 10:13am
Reid

nick to me Dunne’s worst hypocrisy is pretending he’s a man of integrity to his electorate when it’s quite obvious to every living being including single-cell amoebas that he’s a disingenuous lying philanderer. The only one dumb enough to support him these days appears to be Pete G, whom I suspect has a crush on him engendered by Dunne’s full head of hair which I understand is quite the envy of those like Pete with a hairline that resembles the professor on Back to the Future.
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July 27, 2013 10:13am
Kea

Griff, they even have a name for melting ice: Summer
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July 27, 2013 10:15am
Griff

wat dabney
As usual for A Watts and his blog —– its a load of cods whack.
Wrong picture. Wrong date.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08578.htm

here is the vessel at the pole in 1959
http://navsource.org/archives/08/575/0857824.jpg
Note the ice.

same vessel same place 1962
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0857801.jpg
Strange ice again.

A picture tells a thousand words.
your picture and its source says one.

Wingnut
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July 27, 2013 10:17am
Yvette

Meridian Power, next asset to be sold, advertises extensively on television to up its image, including a piece of helping schoolchildren in various schemes “because one in four live in poverty”
Is this now accepted by Government as a fact? – or is this where a Government SOE can tell us one thing, and Government itself say it is not true?
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July 27, 2013 10:19am
wat dabney

hj,

“my point is that there has to be an economic justification for immigration policies other than a people servicing ponzi scheme.”

No, there doesn’t; any more than there needs to be an economic justification for the state allowing you to move from the North island to the South island or vice versa.

Other people are not our slaves.
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July 27, 2013 10:20am
Reid

This video is quite good, for those who don’t yet understand the criminality behind the GFC.

http://www.theotherschoolofeconomics.org/?p=2499
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July 27, 2013 10:22am
hj

No, there doesn’t; any more than there needs to be an economic justification for the state allowing you to move from the North island to the South island or vice versa.

Other people are not our slaves.
………………
But we are a nation, we have borders and the politicians are elected to work in our interests, not (predominately) the interests of banks and property investors.
What’s more the world population has rocketed upwards in recent history, this indicates a system out of balance.
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July 27, 2013 10:23am
edd

@ wat dabney

You sound a little bitter about the abolition of slavery. It sound like you are saying “If I can’t have slaves then let me have the next best thing, cheap workers from the Islands.”?
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July 27, 2013 10:26am
Reid

Other people are not our slaves.

The people who paid for and built this country get to decide the rules for those who wish to enter it. This is not unfair or unjust in any way whatsoever.

If you go and visit another person’s house, you obey their rules, for example you take off your shoes if that is their custom. Same rules apply to a country. What about “when in Rome…” don’t you understand, wat?
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July 27, 2013 10:27am
Kea

Climate Science: A cult that believes season variations are a sign the world is ending 🙂
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July 27, 2013 10:35am
Kea

Late-season freeze sets Baltic ice record

Ice breakers navigating the Gulf of Bothnia have been astounded at the record spread of ice on the Baltic Sea, while scientists say they have never seen anything like it.

“Since record keeping began in the sixties, we’ve never encountered anything like this before,” ice breaker Ulf Gulldne told the local newspaper Örnsköldsviks Allehanda.

On March 29th, 176,000 square kilometers of the Baltic Sea was covered in ice, a record for the time of year. On a map, it means about half of the central and northern parts are frozen over. Far north, the ice is both thick and difficult to break through.

http://www.thelocal.se/47154/20130405/
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July 27, 2013 10:41am
wat dabney

hj,

“But we are a nation, we have borders…”

There’s no “we.”

I don’t know you from Adam (or rather, from what little I can glean about you from your ugly postings I don’t like at all.) Yet you seem to imagine that I should automatically discriminate if favour of you, and against others, on the basis of an entirely notional line on the map.

edd,

“You sound a little bitter about the abolition of slavery. It sound like you are saying “If I can’t have slaves then let me have the next best thing, cheap workers from the Islands.”?”

Doesn’t sound like you’ve really thought this through.

You are arguing that freedom equals slavery.

Now where have we heard that before?

Reid,

“The people who paid for and built this country get to decide the rules for those who wish to enter it…”

The people who build this country were all immigrants.

“If you go and visit another person’s house, you obey their rules…”

And if an asian buys a house here I will certainly obey his rules in his own house. And I suspect that, unlike you, he won’t then try to dictate what everyone else can do.
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July 27, 2013 10:44am
hj

Open borders will become a reality when the public stops believing that immigrants are a threat,” sociologist Fabio Rojas recently wrote, comparing the open borders movement to the gay rights movement. “Even if a pro-immigration referendum fails to pass, it will still serve the function of forcing the issue onto the public stage. These actions won’t change the minds of those strongly committed to anti-immigration policy. Instead, they will make immigration seem ‘normal’ to a later generation of people.”
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/04/if-people-could-immigrate-anywhere-would-poverty-be-eliminated/275332/#comments

rust never sleeps
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July 27, 2013 10:49am
Yvette

The first legal high is back on the market just one week after the Psychoactive Substances Act was passed …

the act allows suppliers to apply for interim approval to sell their products as long as they have entered them into a testing regime to prove they pose little threat to consumers.

… Medical safety authority Medsafe group manager Dr Stewart Jessamine told Fairfax Media on Tuesday the interim approval process had been made very clear throughout the development of the legislation.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/manukau-courier/8967741/Legal-high-back-on-the-market

Oh dear – one step forward, two fucking steps [or even more] backwards … c’est la vie
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July 27, 2013 10:53am
hj

wat dabney (2,844) Says:

there is no we
………..
NZ citizens.
in your world view if we allowed diffusion from high population, low income countries to low population high income countries what would be the result?
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July 27, 2013 10:54am
UglyTruth

The people who paid for and built this country get to decide the rules for those who wish to enter it.

The immigrants did not build the actual country, i.e. the land itself. The civil state denies the source and assumes its power.
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July 27, 2013 10:57am
Griff

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8972115/Fewer-gain-suppression

The veil of secrecy shrouding the country’s courtrooms has been lifted considerably since a law change that tightened name suppression criteria for people facing criminal charges.

Latest figures released by the Ministry of Justice under the Official Information Act show a 60 per cent drop throughout New Zealand in the number of defendants keeping their names secret, from a high in the 12 months to June 2010.

Justice must not only be done it must be seen to be done.
Gordon Hewart, in Rex v. Sussex Justices ex parte McCarthy (1924),
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July 27, 2013 10:57am
Reid

The people who build this country were all immigrants.

Yes wat and when our ancestors came in they obeyed the rules that those who came before had laid down, didn’t they. Why are you deliberately being obtuse over this? Your point is meaningless vapour and would only have meaning if we compulsorily imported migrants which doesn’t happen. If this is the only argument you can raise against acting to stem the overheated Akld property market by removing the and I mean the major source of the heat, then I’m afraid it’s not a very good one.

The immigrants did not build the actual country, i.e. the land itself.

UT I know you and your ilk really hate the white man and everything he has built and would love to pretend it doesn’t exist but I’m afraid if you look around you at not only bricks and mortar but all the institutions, you can see, hear, touch and feel that this land is more than mere dirt. That’s what I’m referring to.
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July 27, 2013 11:00am
hj

Watt says:
“The people who paid for and built this country get to decide the rules for those who wish to enter it…”

The people who build this country were all immigrants.
……..
by that rule any country settled by immigrants can’t close the gate.
When you look at NZ’s settlement you see Maori population limited by food resources, then you see farming and agriculture with it’s introduction of new species. Later you see the breaking in of the NZ high country…
Now we see moneyed people escaping the “intensity of the urban environment and lack of personal space” of the world most populous nations an immigration ponzi scheme resulting in unaffordable houses while wages aren’t rising significantly.
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July 27, 2013 11:03am
wat dabney

“in your world view if we allowed diffusion from high population, low income countries to low population high income countries what would be the result?

A vast diminution in poverty for one thing.

Don’t get me wrong. I’d abolish the Welfare State as well. I’m talking about increasing freedom and allowing people to provide for their families.

There is no more tragic sight on TV that those reality programs showing airport immigration staff catching someone who just wants to come to the country to work so they can send back money to their family to feed and educate their children. How immgration staff don’t absolutely hate themself is beyond me.
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July 27, 2013 11:14am
wat dabney

Reid,

“ when our ancestors came in they obeyed the rules that those who came before had laid down, didn’t they.

The rule which freely allowed them to immigrate, yes, clearly they did.

But I’m talking about morals and ethics, you are talking about rules.

They are clearly not the same thing.

You may cite all the rules you like.
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July 27, 2013 11:19am
publicwatchdog

Good moaning Kiwibloggers! 🙂

FYI

Will the NBR publish THIS comment?

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/black-means-white-tax-wonderland-dc-143397

(Rodney Hide’s article).

MY COMMENT:

You coming on any of the marches against the GCSB Bill today Rodney?

( //www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=258769314248278&set=a.253532231438653.1073741827.253531264772083&type=1&theater )

Defending the lawful rights of the citizens to privacy, freedom of association and freedom of expression and against arbitrary search and surveillance?

Never mind ‘Nanny State’!

This is ‘BIG BROTHER STATE’ (on steroids)!

Hope to see you there.

Kind regards!

‘Her Warship’ 😉

Penny Bright
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July 27, 2013 11:26am
hj

‘Her Warship’ 😉

Penny Bright
….
in a bath tub.
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July 27, 2013 11:29am
UglyTruth

UT I know you and your ilk really hate the white man and everything he has built and would love to pretend it doesn’t exist

It’s not as simple as that, Reid. The trick is to recognize that not everything is black and white, if fact hardly anything is.

but I’m afraid if you look around you at not only bricks and mortar but all the institutions, you can see, hear, touch and feel that this land is more than mere dirt. That’s what I’m referring to.

Yes, and that what what I was referring to by source – that there are intangibles inherent to the land according to the law of nature. The natural system is more relevant as the man-made one because the man-made one has limited scope.
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July 27, 2013 11:32am
Kea

Justice must not only be done it must be seen to be done.

I am sure the precious All Blacks will continue to get name suppression when beating and raping, as will banal tv celebrities and other connected people.
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July 27, 2013 11:33am
Manolo

The beauty of multiculturalism: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/sleazy-cabbie-harbi-inaizi-demands-fare-go-on-licence/story-fni0cx12-1226685263840
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July 27, 2013 11:36am
hj

Watt Says:
There is no more tragic sight on TV that those reality programs showing airport immigration staff catching someone who just wants to come to the country to work so they can send back money to their family to feed and educate their children. How immgration staff don’t absolutely hate themself is beyond me.
………..
You mean countires that have overshot carrying capacity?
what about family planning. I n the Philipines the Catholic Church campaigns against contraception. If a family with two children are doing o.k and a poor family down the street has 11 children, should the other families share their income?

Do you realise the relative proportions of highly populated/ low income to lesser populated high income countries? Think of it as a series of locks with different water levels.
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July 27, 2013 11:38am
Kea

Among other things since becoming president, Barack Obama has:

Mandated the Insider Threat Program which orders federal employees to report suspicious actions of their colleagues based on behavioral profiling techniques.
Supported the PRISM massive NSA spying program.
20,000 Airstrikes in the President’s First Term Cause Death and Destruction From Iraq to Somalia.
Signed the NDAA into law – making it legal to assassinate Americans w/o charge or trial.
Initiated, and personally oversees a ‘Secret Kill List’.
Waged war on Libya without congressional approval.
Started a covert, drone war in Yemen.
Escalated the proxy war in Somalia.
Escalated the CIA drone war in Pakistan.
Maintained a presence in Iraq even after “ending” the war.
Sharply escalated the war in Afghanistan.
Sold $30 billion of weapons to the dictatorship in Saudi Arabia.
Secretly deployed US special forces to 75 countries.
Signed an agreement for 7 military bases in Colombia.
Opened a military base in Chile.
Touted nuclear power, even after the disaster in Japan.
Opened up deepwater oil drilling, even after the BP disaster.
Did a TV commercial promoting “clean coal”.
Defended body scans and pat-downs at airports.
Signed the Patriot Act extension into law.
Deported a modern-record 1.5 million immigrants.
Continued Bush’s rendition program.
Signed the Monsanto Protection Act into law.

Check out more of what Obama supporters are defending here: http://stpeteforpeace.org/factsheets/obama.html

Of course to be critical of Obama is racist, so it is best to let him kill and destroy, sowing misery and death around the world. It is the lessor of the two evils for Obama supporters.
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July 27, 2013 11:40am
Reid

It’s not as simple as that, Reid. The trick is to recognize that not everything is black and white, if fact hardly anything is.

Yes apologies UT, somehow I must have thought you were Yoza. My mistake.
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July 27, 2013 11:54am
wikiriwhis business

Max Keiser disses economist who claims high frequency trading is safe – hugely interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKTELC3fto8&feature=em-subs_digest-vrecs
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July 27, 2013 11:55am
Nookin

I wonder if there are Freudian connotations to Ms Bright’s constant reference to herself as “Her Warship”. There was of course a vessel known as HMS Penelope. She was hit so many times that she became known as HMS Pepperpot. Eventually, she was torpedoed and sank. Her sinking was particularly unusual because no other British warship was torpedoed while travelling at speed. The comparisons are compelling. A couple of battered old clangers charging headlong to oblivion
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July 27, 2013 11:55am
wat dabney

“ You mean countries that have overshot carrying capacity?

There is no requirement for any and every area of land in the World to grow enough food to sustain its local population. In fact, our standard of living is entirely dependent on the fact that they don’t.
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July 27, 2013 11:58am
Scott Chris

Yeah open borders would be nice, but the favela phenomenon shows us that migration needs to be managed.
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July 27, 2013 12:04pm
wikiriwhis business

SWAT teams.

They were originally created for dire circumstances
where highly skilled, overwhelming force was needed
to avert a catastrophe.

Now Florida sends them to barbershops to make sure
that the barber has an up-to-date license.

Video:

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/24105.html
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July 27, 2013 12:14pm
Manolo

Another gift of the whore Peter Dunne to the nation: his dynamic, austere and effective Families Commission:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/8970559/Commission-rapped-for-411-000-consultant
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July 27, 2013 12:14pm
Scott Chris

Yvette, I take it you prefer our nation’s hedonistic youth to have their drugs supplied by the Black Power rather than tax paying Sanjay.
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July 27, 2013 12:15pm
edd

@ wat dabney

“You are arguing that freedom equals slavery.”

No I’m arguing Slavery equals cheap labor, and the immigration you are supporting also equals cheap labor, just not as cheap as slavery.

I’m calling you a greedy pig who would sell his own country down the river for an easy profit. In fact if you love immigration so much I suggest you exercise your freedom and immigrate somewhere else.
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July 27, 2013 12:17pm
Scott Chris

Heh, hMs. Pepperpot seems quite apt. Good one Nookin.
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July 27, 2013 12:20pm
hj

wat dabney (2,847) Says:
There is no requirement for any and every area of land in the World to grow enough food to sustain its local population. In fact, our standard of living is entirely dependent on the fact that they don’t.
……
that’s true but there is a limit how many rich, industrial nations are viable given energy and other resource limits?
The human economy is a subset of the worlds ecosystem.
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July 27, 2013 12:22pm
joana

tax paying sanjay..What an oxymoron!
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July 27, 2013 12:23pm
wat dabney

edd,

Your argument is that slavery equals cheap labour and that therefore cheap labour equals slavery.

This is the same as arguing that since all dogs are four-legged animal therefore all four-legged animals are dogs.
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July 27, 2013 12:25pm
publicwatchdog

GCSB Petition to MPs

FYI

Today 27 July 2013 at the anti-GCSB marches all over NZ – SEIZE THE MOMENT!

Politicians understand ONE thing – VOTES!

Here is a petition you can use / adapt / whatever to get as many signatures for as many MPs who supported the GCSB and TICs Bills at their First Reading.

If YOU (MP) vote to support the GCSB Bill – we won’t vote for you and will CAMPAIGN against your re-election in 2014!

http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/?p=218
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July 27, 2013 12:26pm
Scott Chris

Something funny to lighten your mood –

Comedian Sean Lock’s Political Correctness gone mad!
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July 27, 2013 12:32pm
Manolo

He didn’t say what kind of therapy! http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/26/san-diego-mayor-ignores-mounting-calls-to-resign-heads-for-therapy-instead/
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July 27, 2013 1:02pm
edd

@ wat dabney

“Your argument is that slavery equals cheap labour and that therefore cheap labour equals slavery.

This is the same as arguing that since all dogs are four-legged animal therefore all four-legged animals are dogs.”

Do you seriously expect me to argue with you about whether I said what you are claiming I said, or whether I said something else?

“I didn’t say that. I said this………………………..”

“No you didn’t you said what I said you said.”

Sorry buddy but life’s just too short.
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July 27, 2013 1:07pm
peterwn

nickb – I do not agree with your view on the ‘parliamentary contemplation’ test for interpreting tax law. A significant change to tax law was not even tax legislation itself, but the Interpretation Act 1999 which opened the way for ‘parliamentary contemplation’. It is not necessary for each MP to understand in complete detail each clause in each bill before the House. The MP can rely on ministerial and spokespersons’ comments, select committee reports, etc. In tax bills, two sources of guidance in interpreting the law are the Revenue Minister’s explanation when introducing tax bills and the content of the Select Committee report. To give a crass example, PIE’s were introduced to encourage saving and investment and Parliament would have been informed of this. So while a taxpayer who switches investments to PIE’s could be regarded as avoiding tax, he is not as he is doing what Parliament contemplated.

Going to the Trinity / Ben Nevis forestry case, this was tax avoidance on a breathtaking scale. Parliament, by the wildest imagination, never intended the clauses in tax legislation to be ‘used’ for the distorted and perveted business model which was the basis for the scheme. Similarly with the Aussie banks – Parliament provides tax deductibility on loans to help businesses succeed and grow, not for a perverted objective that saves tax but where there is no other business benefit.

It is quite probable that the Privy Council if it heard these cases would have come down on IRD’s side. Both because it would have needed to respect NZ’s Interpretation Act and because ‘Parliamentary contemplation’ has gained acceptance in the UK as well. Interestingly courts would have been in breach of Parliamentary Privilege by referring to Hansard and other Parliamentary papers, but a request to the Speaker in the UK to grant dispensation was both granted and Mr Speaker ruling that there was no objection in the general case. Mr Speaker in NZ quickly followed suit.

Therefore it would be unfair to imply that the Supreme Court has taken an opposite view to the Privy Council. While tax practitioners bemoan the lack of a ‘bright line’ on tax avoidance, the cases in question are well over the line and were just plain abusive (by both common meaning and in tax jargon terms).

I would share concerns if IRD and Crown Law try to push right up against the line and if so hope the Courts will push them back to a reasonable distance.

I have always found the “parliamentary contemplation” test to be a shit stain on the tax system. Can you imagine even a quarter of our politicians reading tax legislation, much less understanding it and “contemplating” its purpose and how it should be applied? It seems to me the test is moving more to an “IRD contemplation” test. I.e., IRD states they think the structure is tax avoidance – and they win every time.
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July 27, 2013 1:23pm
nickb

I am aware of the Interpretation Act and agree that Trinity type structures are asking for trouble.

I don’t agree with decisions like Penny & Hooper and Alesco which dictated how taxpayers should operate their businesses. It seems like in the current environment, to be safe, you have to plan your affairs in the way that pays the most tax. Look no further than IRD’s crazy Revenue Alert after the Penny & Hooper SC decision where they stated they would expect at least 80% of an interposed entity’s taxable profit to be returned in the shareholder / beneficiary’s personal tax return…. just absolute rubbish.

When BG 1 has become a de facto taxing provision we are all in trouble…. as you have pointed out in this thread IRD is a rapacious beast. I have heard anecdotally they are now turning on farmers who have switched between herd schemes due to tax changes bought in recently…. hopefully farmers, having a large lobby group, will push back against this. Not sure if you are an accountant but would be interested to know if you have heard about this, because apparently it is a large shitstorm brewing.

The thing I found most amusing about Penny & Hooper is I always thought that if Parliament, when “contemplating” increasing the top tax rate to 39%, would surely have “contemplated” that people would interposes trusts and companies in their business affairs, or continue to do so if they were already. Yet both the orthopaedic specialists (one of which already had the structure set up and were paying a lower salary well before the tax rate increase) were nailed despite having numerous non-tax reasons for restructuring also, which the courts predictably ignored, Ellen France J notwithstanding.

I just feel like the Courts in this country don’t always apply sound and robust reasoning when deciding tax cases, especially tax avoidance cases. Maybe time for specialist courts?
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July 27, 2013 1:37pm
nickb

Also peterwn, as you seem very clued up on this, one thing I have always been fascinated by is the Garry Muir / Clive Bradbury saga… what are they both doing now?

My understanding is that they operated a tax law firm together before it started unravelling with the Trinity scheme and Clive Bradbury’s termination of his retainer for legal services at Westpac…and now they have been fighting the IRD for 5+ years on the Trinity case, and still going. Are both still even practising? One would imagine with the amount of litigation they have gone through they must be financially shattered.

Interestingly an ex colleague of mine worked in the BVI at the time that side of the structure was being established, and actually set it up through the trust company he worked for. He ended up giving evidence at the trial too.
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July 27, 2013 1:45pm
liarbors a joke

This sort of bludgery gets right up my arse…reporter in the chc Press does an artical on hardship and sponges that use the city mission.

One tart , 25 year old solo with one child groaning on how difficult life is and how she cant afford this and that and her DPB is constantly just wiped out before the weekend. Car repayments dont help. Nappies are expensive

Blows on about wanting to support herself and her child..which is nice…but then she drops a clanger ..SHE IS DUE TO GIVE BIRTH TO HER SECOND CHILD IN NOVEMBER !!!!!!!!

Why? You stupid, stupid stupid brain dead oxygen thief. Why?????
Aww the pain..the pain..
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July 27, 2013 1:54pm
wikiriwhis business

Comet ISON this year

Comet ISON will be over Earth this year. Here are vids from NASA

Comet of the Century?

Later this year, “Comet ISON” could blossom into a striking naked eye object visible even in broad daylight.
“Comet ISON is a sungrazer,” explains Karl Battams of the Naval Research Lab. “The orbit of the comet will bring it very close to the sun, which we know can be a spectacular thing.”

http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/scitech/display.cfm?ST_ID=2544
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July 27, 2013 2:12pm
Kea

One of the good ones this woman. A few here would benefit from watching her videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp8tToFv-bA
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July 27, 2013 2:18pm
Kea

SHE IS DUE TO GIVE BIRTH TO HER SECOND CHILD IN NOVEMBER !!!!!!!!

Why? You stupid, stupid stupid brain dead oxygen thief. Why?????

It is not the young lady who is stupid and brain dead. It is the people paying her to have babies. Simply put, we pay women to fuck in this country. You can dress it up any way you like, but that is the truth. This is the biggest con job every pulled by feminists on our society.
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July 27, 2013 2:34pm
Keeping Stock

martinh said

Key probably wants to upgrade his wife to an asian

Good God; what a sad life you must lead.
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July 27, 2013 3:13pm
jaba

for some bizzare reason I went to Frogblog and there was a post from Kenny Graham .. he flew to the Solomons and for some reason he added .. “I offset my flying, at personal cost”. Another hypocrite trying to avoid being called, well a hypocrite.
So he went down to gardening shop and got himself a tree to plant OR did he buy some carbon credits on the cheap knowing that if the Gweens get into Govt they will force the price up making himself some very lazy dollars for fk all .. a sort of insider trading in a way.
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July 27, 2013 4:05pm
Kea

jaba, this should help”

“Pounds of CO2 per mile in a plane

A plane produces about 244 pounds of carbon dioxide each mile it flies. An average plane carries 218 passengers, so that’s about 1 pound of carbon dioxide per passenger per mile in the air.?

http://www.stewartmarion.com/carbon-footprint/html/carbon-footprint-plane.html
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July 27, 2013 4:11pm
Kea

And ships are worse. Much worse 🙂

Big polluters: one massive container ship equals 50 million cars

The Guardian has reported on new research showing that in one year, a single large container ship can emit cancer and asthma-causing pollutants equivalent to that of 50 million cars. The low grade bunker fuel used by the worlds 90,000 cargo ships contains up to 2,000 times the amount of sulfur compared to diesel fuel used in automobiles.

http://www.gizmag.com/shipping-pollution/11526/
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July 27, 2013 4:16pm
wat dabney

“Tiny particulates, one of the two most serious pollutants emitted from car exhausts, are calculated to kill 29,000 people a year [in Britain], over 10 times as many as die in car accidents …And among the main reasons for its severity are official measures to combat global warming which – ignoring top medical advice – have long encouraged motorists to switch fuels…And the Government’s Committee on the Medical Effects of Air Pollution has also suggested that they may play a part in 200,000 more deaths.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/green-motoring/10190942/Why-is-killer-diesel-still-poisoning-our-air.html
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July 27, 2013 4:25pm
Tauhei Notts

nickb at 9.45 a.m.
best post today.
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July 27, 2013 4:33pm
bhudson

Yes wat and when our ancestors came in they obeyed the rules that those who came before had laid down, didn’t they.

Actually Reid, they introduced their own laws. Else we’d all be living according to Maori customs.

So your logic must be that modern immigrants do the same.
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July 27, 2013 4:36pm
Griff

Mainstream media misleading public about new legal highs law.
http://www.legalhighs.co.nz/synthetic-cannabis/misleading-information-from-mainstream-media-about-legal-highs/2013

The Ministry of Health says that interim approval allows sales of some legal highs to continue in R18 and specialty stores while both manufacturers and retailers make their submissions for interim licences.

Over 50 applications for product approvals and licences to import, research, distribute and retail have been made to the government already, less than one week after the new psychoactive substances bill was passed in to law on July the 18th.

It costs $10’000 to apply for interim approval of a product and $500 to distribute or retail legal highs.

Products that have had negative media attention such as Kronic and K2 are unlikely to be approved for an interim licence. Products must have been sold for three months or more before the act took effect without being banned in order for manufacturers and retailers to continue to sell while they seek interim approval.
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July 27, 2013 4:49pm
nickb

nickb at 9.45 a.m.
best post today.

Thanks Tauhei! Glad my frustrated tax rants have a fan.
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July 27, 2013 5:18pm
Manolo

As ugly as a kick in the groin: http://news.yahoo.com/anthony-weiner-sexting-scandal-quinn-bloomberg-165117575.html
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July 27, 2013 6:05pm
nickb

Manolo, do you think a possible reason for Dunne not disclosing the Vance emails is because they had a Weiner aspect to them?
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July 27, 2013 6:11pm
bereal

Isn’t it interesting how two people can view the same situation in totally different ways ?

Take this situation for example.

Here we have a john and a whore. ”

the john thinks, “dime has a friend who is a high class hooker.”

The whore thinks, “I better humour this loser, these premature ejaculators are like gold dust, and this

one keeps comming back for more.”
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July 27, 2013 6:20pm
nickb

Isn’t it interesting how two people can view the same situation in totally different ways ?

I agree bereal. I have a similar example which might help your writing (you seem to struggle with putting sentences together):

Grammar is important! Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your Uncle jack off a horse. – Unknown.
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July 27, 2013 6:23pm
bereal

dont fret little nickb
yours is comming.

It will be a good one.
When it does it will have a little more class than your pathetic,
low life effort,’ Eat shit and die.’ from the other night.
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July 27, 2013 6:36pm
Griff

Don’t you know there ain’t no devil, it’s just god when he’s drunk.
Tom Waits
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July 27, 2013 7:00pm
Pauleastbay

Don’t you know there ain’t no devil, it’s just god when he’s drunk.

Heart attack and Vine – now that is a superior album
2 1
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July 27, 2013 7:04pm
liarbors a joke

A large woman, wearing a sleeveless sun dress, walked into a bar. She raised her right arm, revealing a huge, hairy armpit as she pointed to all the people sitting at the bar and asked, “What man here will buy a lady a drink?”

The bar went silent as the patrons tried to ignore her. But down at the end of the bar, an owly-eyed drunk named Beryl slammed his hand down on the counter and bellowed, “Give the ballerina a drink!”

The bartender poured the drink and the woman chugged it down. She turned to the patrons and again pointed around at all of them, revealing the same hairy armpit, and asked, “What man here will buy a lady a drink?”

Once again, the same little drunk named Beryl slapped his money down on the bar and said, “Give the ballerina another drink!”

The bartender approached the little drunk and said, “I say, old chap, it’s your business if you want to buy the lady a drink, but why do you keep calling her the ballerina?”

“As far as I’m concerned, Beryl slurred, “any woman who can lift her leg that high has got to be a ballerina!”
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July 27, 2013 7:05pm

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Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
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editor@kiwiblog.co.nz

PO Box 12270, Thorndon, Wellington 6144

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