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November 4, 2014 3:00pm by David Farrar

John Oliver on Key and NZ Flag

John Oliver is in great form as he skewers John Key and the flag issue.

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Comment47

Humour
NZ Politics
John Key
John Oliver
NZ flag

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Comments (47)

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Redbaiter

John Key as a first generation NZer and with parents who had little connection to our English and Christian heritage should leave NZ’s traditional flag alone. Its too soon for upstarts like you to be messing with something so dear to so many third or fourth generation NZers Johnny. Leaving aside the duplicitous way you’re going about it.

Your own memo on how this process should be conducted specifies no presumption of change. Why then have the question as to choice of replacement as the first referendum? Fraud.
14 22
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November 4, 2014 3:05pm
Akaroa

Yes, John Oliver is funny and i’ve always been a fan of his, still am, and will be in the future – But i take a dim view of him turning his wit on to our Prime Minister. Not funny John.
6 13
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November 4, 2014 3:26pm
Lance

@Red
As a forth generation NZ’er I think your sad attempt at excluding New Zealand citizens participation is decisions for their own country based on their parents background is vile at best.

The NZ flag is a British navy flag with a southern cross on it. Created by people with zero imagination and with the vision of a potato.
My grandfather fought in the first world war and his opinions of the British as a result of the war were very very very negative. NZers were just shat upon and treated as cannon fodder.
The last semblance of British influence died with Britain joining the EU. These days Germany is a better friend to NZ than Britain in the EU.

Maybe it’s time to move on?
23 10
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November 4, 2014 3:27pm
Redbaiter

“Maybe it’s time to move on?”

Why is it time now?

Why was it not time ten years ago, and why will it not be time 10 years into the future?

Answer those questions before you bore me with self serving UK hating Progressive rhetoric.

Look at a map of the world and tell me what the common characteristic is of all countries that were colonised by England.
11 15
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November 4, 2014 3:30pm
mikemikemikemike

@Redbaiter – “Look at a map of the world and tell me what the common characteristic is of all countries that were colonised by England.”

Out of control Welfare costs?
8 3
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November 4, 2014 3:42pm
Don the Kiwi

Whilst my preference is to retain the existing flag for a variety of reasons, what pisses me off as much as anything else is that this is a referendum based on his own personal view.

where was the referendum on the so called Equality of Marriage Act -which should have been put to a referendum, but instead was hustled through parliament on the suggestion of a lesbian Labour MP – and list at that.

Where was his compliance with the referendum on the Anti Smacking law – nah – just disagreed with it, so flagged it.

The duplicity and lack of moral fortitude is the thing that gets up my nose.
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November 4, 2014 3:50pm
jawnbc

The two flags I admire the most were both selected through processes that were hardly transparent and open: Canada and South Africa.

Whatever process is followed, hopefully someone will surface a design that makes a lot of us say “that’s it”. Something contemporary, unique and easy to transfer to other media (shirts, decals, tattoos, etc).
3 1
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November 4, 2014 3:52pm
thedavincimode

Look at a map of the world and tell me what the common characteristic is of all countries that were colonised by England

Pakistanis?
10 2
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November 4, 2014 3:54pm
Mr_Blobby

It should have a full facial tattoo with the tongue sticking out and a black arse with the words we are not Australia and it must be on a white back ground so the likes of Hone and Tame feel comfortable wiping their arses with it.
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November 4, 2014 3:58pm
Akaroa

Davincimode at 3.54. Not just Pakistanis Davincimate!.

Actually, going back in time to a period before a lot of posters herein were born, when I was a child in Uk in the 1940s there was a day in the year, I think it was in May, that was entitled “Empire Day”. It was a day for those in Uk to reflect on and celebrate the wide extent of Britain’s imperial colonial possessions.

I recall we used to be urged to reflect on the brother/sisterhood between races that the Empire had successfully forged, and I have a mental recollection of a huge poster that a school I went to displayed.

It showed the World and marked all of the many the British colonial possessions, and depicted the multitude of races that were bound together under the Union Jack. Black, White, Brown and Yellow, and all deferring to the monarch in Buckingham Palace.

Ah! Those were the days my friend – we thought they’d never end!!
6 1
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November 4, 2014 4:09pm
thedavincimode

Those were the days Akaroa! The only part of the world that mattered was coloured red. (A sign of things to come? 🙁 )

… and ‘God Save the Queen’ was played before the movie started!
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November 4, 2014 4:18pm
Redbaiter

“The duplicity and lack of moral fortitude is the thing that gets up my nose.”

Well said Don. Good to know not everyone is a nauseating Key fanatic. Getting worse than Maoism. Two ticks for thinly disguised neo-communism, racism, separatism and a flag change.
12 5
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November 4, 2014 4:36pm
Redbaiter

“Out of control Welfare costs?”

Actually, that’s most of the west.

And people try and tell me there is no master plan.
7 2
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November 4, 2014 4:37pm
EAD

It is the Soldier, not the minister
Who has given us freedom of religion.

It is the Soldier, not the reporter
Who has given us freedom of the press.

It is the Soldier, not the poet
Who has given us freedom of speech.

It is the Soldier, not the campus organizer
Who has given us freedom to protest.

It is the Soldier, not the lawyer
Who has given us the right to a fair trial.

It is the Soldier, not the politician
Who has given us the right to vote.

It is the Soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag,
Who allows the Prime Minister to do what he wants to the flag.

– Charles M Province
11 7
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November 4, 2014 4:40pm
greenjacket

Not quite sure what EAD is saying.
Soldiers in WW1 and WW2 fought with a black symbol with a white fern, and soldiers are buried under gravestones with the silver fern emblem.
So presumably EAD is saying that the flag should be a black flag with a fern on it?
4 7
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November 4, 2014 4:53pm
Akaroa

davincimode at 4.18

“….and ‘God Save the Queen’ was played before the movie started!”

Ah!. The cinemas I went to played the National Anthem at the end of the performance

Great satisfaction to be had obstructing, and even treading on the toes, of those disrespectful oafs who tried to push past and slope off before the anthem and the on-screen depiction of the King/Queen had ended – and as the loyal amongst us remained standing respectfully.
2 1
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November 4, 2014 4:54pm
Shawn Herles

“John Key as a first generation NZer and with parents who had little connection to our English and Christian heritage should leave NZ’s traditional flag alone.”

Let’s leave aside the fact that you are not a Christian and have no real concern for our Christian heritage, a contempt you have made clear whenever real Christianity gets in the way of your bigotry. You use our Christian heritage the same way Hitler did, giving it lip servide when it suits your cultural and ethnic hatred, then ignoring it or attacking it when it does not.

NZ’s heritage is, in part, British, not English. The people who created Dunedin and Otago were Scottish, not English. Welsh people are not English, and Scots Irish from NI were also not English.

Also, the Union Jack is the flag of Britain, not England. Duh.

Red has effectively reduced Britain to England alone. This is psuedo-historical bullshit. A primary school child could skewer Red’s nonsense here.

Apart from that, the idea that because JK is supposedly not “English” because he had a Jewish mother is nothing more than neo-Nazi racism. The same ideology the Brits fought the Germans over in WW2.

Let the NZ people decide. A referendum will represent all NZ’s and not just white English people in Red’s racist neo-Nazi fantasy.
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November 4, 2014 5:00pm
Redbaiter

“Let’s leave aside the fact that you are not a Christian and have no real concern for our Christian heritage,”

You once again need to stop misrepresenting the views of others. Just say what you think, not what others think, and don’t build strawmen and ask the victims of your cowardly lies and smears to defend them. That’s not debating.
6 3
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November 4, 2014 5:16pm
Nukuleka

Very funny video- and spot on in lampooning the whole silly flag debate. There will be tears before bedtime, mark my words! I like and admire John Key but he is way off the mark in this vainglorious legacy issue.
7 2
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November 4, 2014 5:24pm
SGA

Redbaiter at 3:30 pm

Look at a map of the world and tell me what the common characteristic is of all countries that were colonised by England.

I’m looking at a map – none are landlocked? To be less literal – English is an official language (I assume)?
Certainly most don’t have the Union Jack on their flag. In fact, even among the countries that still have the Queen as Head of State that’s the exception rather than the rule.
3 0
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November 4, 2014 5:27pm
SGA

I’m looking at a map – none are landlocked?

No, that can’t be it (e.g., Zimbabwe, Uganda, Malawi). Hmmmm.
3 0
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November 4, 2014 6:05pm
Rachael Membery

Well I for one was very moved when seeing the sea of poppies at the Tower of London the other day one for every fallen ww1 soldier including colonials.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-28654710

Not so distant.

Since John Key has quite a good relationship with the current monarchy, perhaps that is a good time to have the discussion, not one of pique?
3 1
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November 4, 2014 6:09pm
Gulag1917

Shawn a typical American pushing the US point of view on internationall forums. The flag referendum might cost $25 million but expect costs like that to rise. It may cost $50 million when the total costs are added up.
3 3
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November 4, 2014 6:23pm
Shawn Herles

“Shawn a typical American pushing the US point of view on internationall forums.”

The US does not actually have an opinion on the NZ flag. Neither do I one way or another. It is going to a referendum, and that is fine with me. All Kiwis should have a say, not just white people from England.

Red does not even understand the traditions he claims to care about. If he did, he would not be ranting about the Union Jack being English, and reducing the UK to England alone. That is uneducated crap. Nor would he be trying to destroy NZ’s British based political traditions by turning us into a quasi-socialist authoritarian Asian state like Singapore.
5 3
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November 4, 2014 6:42pm
mavxp

While a fan of the current flag, I know a lot of people feel it is too much like Australia’s (for a good reason – we were meant to be part of Australia when their version of the flag was created so it would have been ours too).

But should we change it, then it should be something iconic to NZ, and the fern makes sense. The colours in John’s design are British colours and if we are jettisoning the Union Jack then the colours should be up for grabs as well.

My vote would be land and sea with silver fern:

https://johnansell.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/nz-flag-white-fern-on-green-blue-wave3.jpg
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November 4, 2014 6:44pm
Redbaiter

Red does not even understand the traditions he claims to care about. If he did, he would not be ranting about the Union Jack being English, and reducing the UK to England alone. That is uneducated crap. Nor would he be trying to destroy NZ’s British based political traditions by turning us into a quasi-socialist authoritarian Asian state like Singapore.

This is a litany of self serving lies and a comment that does not add anything to the debate on the flag at all. As usual, all Shawn Herles can do is make up shit about what others say or think to try and assassinate their character, when he has little that would withstand scrutiny to offer on anything.
4 3
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November 4, 2014 7:03pm
Yogibear

Red – what I don’t see is how you reconcile your love of Farage, whose core policies include a UK that is symbolically and substantively independent from Europe, with the denial of New Zealand’s own chance to decide whether we wish to to demonstrate that same symbolic independence.

Historically, many countries have changed their flags when they no longer adequately represent their identity – England included.

I welcome the debate and the referendum and will cast my (as yet uncommitted) vote based on considerations of both the past and the future*

*as well as something that doesn’t look like a 9 year old won a competition
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November 4, 2014 7:06pm
Rachael Membery

For goodness sake Scotland has just been through a much more severe case of identity crisis than we are over a flag.
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November 4, 2014 7:17pm
itstricky

My vote would be land and sea with silver fern:

https://johnansell.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/nz-flag-white-fern-on-green-blue-wave3.jpg

Ansell has a flag with a silver fern on it? Well I never. Ahhhh I see – he’s called it a “white fern”. Of course…that’s far more like the Ansell I was thinking of.
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November 4, 2014 7:27pm
Yogibear

Rachael whats your point? Are you trying to tell us we shouldn’t debate this because the Scottish referendum was “more important”?

In any event, its somewhat foolish to think that this debate begins and ends with a decision around the flag.

What many worry about is the flag decision sends us into a wider discussion around a constitutional monarchy vs a republic, flip flopping (again!) over our judicial systems (the Privy Council) and grandiose honourifics such as “Sir” and “Queens Counsel.”

That concern is valid, regardless of your views on the flag.
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November 4, 2014 7:28pm
Yogibear

As an aside, and regardless of outcome I would like to see the Flags and Emblems Act strengthened so that the police can finally prosecute Sonny Shaw for his abominations at the cricket.

Martin Crowe’s lasting legacy aside from his wonderful deeds on the field was to, as the Sky TV producer, make very effort to ensure that Mr Shaw was out of camera shot, even if it meant roping off prime spectator positions on the bank at the Basin.
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November 4, 2014 7:37pm
Rachael Membery

Yogibear (368 comments) says:

November 4th, 2014 at 7:28 pm

My point was that we are not alone in wanting to explore our own identity as a country, the Scottish example was far more complex because of proximity, currency, economy, EU etc than what we will face even accepting the broader issues that you outline.

The option was given and the status quo retained in Scotland. I do think there are wider issues more specific to us due to Treaty Partnerships and whether we have a constitution instead of principles and convention.

As there are not inconsiderable referendum costs should some of those issues be broached at the same time as well?

I assume that if the first referendum is next year, that the second would be the year after? Or make it a plank of the next election?
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November 4, 2014 7:47pm
wiseowl

Rachael.There is no such thing as a Treaty Partnership.Where is the word partnership in the Treaty?

Key is so shallow and has been convinced that the flag is a logo.He can’t tell the difference.

As red says he appears to have no ‘connection’ . He does not have an affinity with the land like those of us that have sweated on the land and are proud of our heritage and proud of our forefathers.
Someone needs to start a CIR on whether we want a change or not before the politicians force their ideas upon us.It is NOT their decision.
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November 4, 2014 8:40pm
Rachael Membery

wiseowl (900 comments) says:

November 4th, 2014 at 8:40 pm

There are two contractual parties to the TOW, the Crown and Maori, the ‘principles’ as they have become of the TOW are seen by some as a partnership, yes, all a matter of interpretation but the standing of the parties will be matters in any discussion regarding becoming a Republic or maintaining the status quo, and I imagine the flag debate.

For the record I would be quite happy for Australia to change theirs.
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November 4, 2014 8:58pm
James Stephenson

John Oliver means that this Pom will pretend to be a Kiwi next time he’s in the US. More embarrassing than sunburn and Arsenal shirts on Spanish beaches.
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November 4, 2014 9:11pm
wiseowl

Rachael, there are no principles in the Treaty either. No principles and no partnership and nothing to do with the flag debate.

I think you are a late starter.
4 0
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November 4, 2014 9:17pm
Rachael Membery

No I am a realist as to how things have been interpreted due to the number of treaty versions and the principle of contra-proferentem.

Simple contract law of not favouring the contract writer if there is a dispute.
0 1
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November 4, 2014 9:31pm
Harriet

It says something about how bloody useless the professionalism of NZ government staff is:

Van Halen’s staff used to demand bowls of M&M’s in all of their hotel rooms and backstage while on tour throughout the US and overseas —- with up to 200 concert and hotel venues — with all the brown M&M’s removed.

And they got them!!!!!

Elton John gets vases of daisies or something everywhere he goes. Others get other things

I think Key needs to wake up somewhat, stop making excuses, and start kicking some ass!!!
1 1
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November 4, 2014 10:02pm
freemark

I’m at least 6th generation New Zealander both sides, and like most have had all that yada yada with ancestors fighting & dying all over the world. They’re all dead, they don’t give a toss. Our flag reflects very little about NZ, let’s adopt the symbol of our world champion, world famous All Blacks. Nothing with Red in it, that is now the colour of evil. Good on JK for raising the issue, if it pisses off trolls like Bedrater it’s a good thing.
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November 4, 2014 10:30pm
V

Mr Blobby has just described Tuku Morgans underwear?
1 0
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November 5, 2014 12:00am
V

If Mozambique can have an AK47 on the flag, then we can have a bungy jumping sheep. Sold!
1 0
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November 5, 2014 1:07am
James Stephenson

Van Halen’s staff used to demand bowls of M&M’s in all of their hotel rooms and backstage while on tour throughout the US and overseas —- with up to 200 concert and hotel venues — with all the brown M&M’s removed.

And they got them!!!!!

It was a test / check to make sure that promotors had actually read the requirements for the concerts – if they’d sorted the M&M’s it was probable that they’d followed instructions about more important things about the stage / sound setup etc.
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November 5, 2014 8:13am
SGA

James Stephenson at 8:13 am

It was a test / check to make sure that promotors had actually read the requirements for the concerts – if they’d sorted the M&M’s it was probable that they’d followed instructions about more important things about the stage / sound setup etc.

Really? Well I never. If true, that’s rather clever.
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November 5, 2014 12:18pm
Unity

What a gross waste of money this flag issue is going to be. Key has already decided that we are going to change the flag. Watch him ignore any referendum that says the people don’t want a change. He’s done it in several referenda already – totally ignored the wishes of the majority. We should be spending the massive sum involved on things that are crucially important and changing the flag isn’t one of them.
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November 5, 2014 2:56pm
V

@Unity
I suspect that is why John Key is wanting to proceed ‘relatively quickly’ because I suspect the support is not there for a flag change, particularly when they are simultaneously trying to sell a story of economic prudence.
It will be interesting to see what the opposition does (if NZ had an opposition that didn’t spend 2.5 out of 3 years navel gazing).
This would be a simple issue to hammer the govt. on, but I suspect low-IQ as they are they will fall for the trap of ‘flag-speculation’ that will occupy the next year.

Changing the flag on John Keys whim is a terrible idea, whats to stop it being changed again by the next govt. who wants to dream up their own fantasy.
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November 6, 2014 1:15am
deadrightkev

After six years of control the progressive army on KB still cannot see what the man that promised so much and delivered so little the Rt Hon “Helen Key” is up to.

A hint for you team – he is not on your side or pushing your agenda. If it is your agenda then you are progressive mugs in the wrong party.

His outrageous push for referendums on a mindless flag change seems neatly timed to coincide with current fraudulent legislation going through the house on a Ngapuhi settlement.

The prospect that Ngapuhi is getting one cent of taxpayers money has to be the scam of the century since they invited the Crown to come to NZ twice. I cannot wait for the silent howls of protest from the media or any National MP’s.

Any comment to make on the validity of a Ngapuhi settlement or for that matter any other settlement DPF?

It would be nice to see a post when the hundreds of millions of taxpayers money is stolen entitled “The Ngapuhi Settlement – is it really valid?”
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November 6, 2014 11:52am
Unity

I agree with you V and also deadrightkev. I hope I live to see the day when the Sheeple wake up as to what’s going on in this country and demand that all these fraudulent settlements are paid back. Underneath I know Hell will probably have to freeze over first unfortunately.

None of the settlements done these days are genuine. They are based on a reinvented Treaty, invented Principles of the Treaty and a re-written history. I mean to say, five full and final settlements to Ngai Tahu with them being very happy with each one apart from the first one!! What on earth does ‘full and final’ really mean? Now they have had a huge top-up because a recent settlement for another tribe was over a set figure. Where/when will it all end? Also, ‘these people’ are more Anglo Saxon than Maori, so where does that sit? It’s an utter disgrace and I’m totally puzzled as to why there isn’t even a murmur from the people in this country. They just roll over and take whatever is dished up by appeasing Governments. If treason was a still crime then surely at least Chris Finlayson would be up for it at least. One day the people will wake up and ask ‘how did this happen’.

Wake up people!!
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November 6, 2014 4:22pm

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