General Debate 5 May 2019

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CJames

There was a tragic two car crash at Ohakuri last weekend. Word from those there that had to clean up the mess is that the van had bald tyres, seatbelts weren’t used and the vehicle did not have a warrant of fitness. With wet roads, it was an accident waiting to happen. The horrible crash the month before at Tirohanga had similar circumstances. That is 13 dead in just two events.
However, if we are to believe researchers, it is institutional racism that causes these deaths!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/111604620/half-of-mori-and-pasifika-deaths-potentially-avoidable-study-finds Where do they find these researchers from? Even the certificates in the Weetbix packet are better quality. No doubt if the police had a blitz and took every unwarranted and dangerous vehicle off the road, that would also be racism.
I expect our Associate Minister of Transport, who I believe has road safety as one of her areas of responsibility, will use the rising road toll to lower the speed limits, rather than address the real issues. Either that, or the whole highway from Tokoroa to Taupo will get cheese cutters down the middle. It is easier to do that with taxpayers’ money than take the unlicenced/ drunk/ drugged drivers off the road. At least Maori language classes won’t be forced on us (yet).
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May 5, 2019 8:00am
- andrew davies
  
  In a similar vein we had last nights TV1 news. An alleged “expert” blamed the addiction problems of Northland Maori on “poverty and oppression”. This was of course totally unchallenged by the latest bright young thing TVNZ wants us to believe is a reporter.
  If there is genuine oppression we should know about it and deal with it. If it is just race baiting rhetoric then it should be put back in its bottle. Such a claim however should not be unchallenged and left out there as if it is true.
  
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  May 5, 2019 8:28am
  - lilman
    
    After working all day,since 2 am I might add,I got home showered and sat down to watch the hurricanes only too,by mistake, channel surf through the tv1 news.
    On it was a piece about far north Maori failing because of drug testing and the un intended consequences that it had caused.
    
    Seriously I nearly got up and put my foot into the screen when I heard a woman say that “OPPRESSION” was an underlying factor in behaviour.
    
    I mean really?you cowards!!!
    You are too lazy to work so we pay you to do nothing.
    Your leaders,(choke,vomit),wont call you out for being the pieces of shit you really are.
    My family have a criminal as a member,jail, the works, you think we tell him we love him and are there to support him?
    Like hell,he gets nothing,if he was on fire I would ring up Z to bring around a tanker,just to make sure.
    
    When he sorts out his shit and shows us he can be what he is supposed to be, a citizen that follows rules and respect others then we will allow him to be part of our extended family.
    
    Oppression,bullshit,they wouldnt know Oppression if they experienced it.
    
    A Black family living in Southern States of America could school that stupid woman on Oppression.
    
    If you think,then you are.
    
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    May 5, 2019 9:27am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Z – 0800 474 355
      
      You’re welcome.
      
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      May 5, 2019 10:18am
  - careym
    
    The galling thing about the “expert” in the referenced article is she was implying people living in poverty yet had the resources/skills to acquire and abuse cannabis/meth/alcohol. The conclusion from the facts in the piece can only be that the poverty present is the poverty of personal responsibility.
    
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    May 5, 2019 9:55am
- artemisia
  
  According to that article, the leading preventable causes of Maori deaths are lung cancer, heart disease and diabetes. There is a pattern there and it is not ‘institutional racism’.
  
  Road accidents and suicide also significant, perhaps a different pattern.
  
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  May 5, 2019 8:36am
  - CJames
    
    Here is another researcher making the same claim about road accidents
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/386047/nz-health-system-called-racist-over-untimely-maori-and-pasifika-deaths
    Of course they never offer examples or case studies of why they make the claims. That is too much like science.
    
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    May 5, 2019 8:43am
    - Surely Knott
      
      They start out with an actual named published study that says that Maori are experiencing more untimely deaths due to lung cancer, heart disease, diabetes, and car accidents. Ok. But then in the Stuff article they make the leap to blaming all theses deaths on racism with some unnamed research saying, “Research has shown Māori people experience longer and slower waits for and through health services.” What research has shown this? Can they name the study and give us a link please. RNZ doesn’t even bother with claiming there’s a study.
      “A Public Health Physician and Senior Lecturer in Māori Health at Auckland University, Dr Rhys Jones, said social inequalities such as poor housing and access to healthcare contributed to the discrepancies, but systemic racism was a factor too.”
      Poor housing isn’t responsible for the named problems of Diabetes, Lung Cancer, Heart disease or Car Crashes. And then to just make an unsubstantiated statement of systemic racism being the cause……..”what racism specifically and how did it contribute?” And where is that study. Media driving race hatred and separatism isn’t going to make things better for the people they claim they want to help.
      
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      May 5, 2019 10:32am
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        to be fair, there is also the tyranny of low expectations. Teachers and front-line staff don’t want to invest in a kid who may be gone next term, is probably disruptive and doesn’t have a stable home.
        
        They are tragic cases, but the outcomes are so predictable, that its hard not to become inured, particularly when the parental units are often deeply unpleasant human beings.
        
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        May 5, 2019 11:52am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  If different cultures in society have different values, then holding all cultures to the same laws will result in some cultures being penalized far more frequently than others.
  Is the resulting poorer outcomes for these cultures evidence of “oppression” and “racism”?
  Could this explain the progressive idea of having different laws for different cultures for the purpose of achieving equality of outcome?
  
  What could possibly go wrong?
  
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  May 5, 2019 8:43am
  - alloytoo
    
    I think you’ve just described the rationale for Apartheid.
    
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    May 5, 2019 9:21am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      That’s right, you can’t expect civilised behaviour from those cheeky darkies can you old boy!
      
      Best you can do is educate them into dependency on State supervision to reduce the harm they can do to each other and society….
      
      Deeply ironic really, the truly racist mindset is always on the “progressive” side of the table, which is probably why Margaret Sangster and the KKK were Democrats.
      
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      May 5, 2019 11:55am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    Well of course there is plenty that could go wrong.
    
    But there is also plenty that could go wrong, and has gone wrong, with any approach to law and government, including having a single law that applies to everybody alike and without distinction, which is why we have different drink-drive limits for people of different ages (for example).
    
    Your reasoning has indeed been used to justify apartheid, as alloytoo says. But that was a different country, at a different time. Meanings and understandings of race and racism have developed since then.
    
    We have here a discussion, clumsily worded and unhelpfully reported to be sure, as to whether race entails individual choices and behaviours or whether it’s solely a matter of genetics. There are similar debates about gender, sex, sexuality and there was even that court case about the guy who wanted legally to lop several years off his age.
    
    There’s room I think for a better informed and more thoughtful discussion about all this and its implications for the design and enforcement of legal and social obligations. But I doubt we’ll be getting it courtesy of our beloved media or Parliamentarians
    
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    May 5, 2019 10:36am
- kevn
  
  @CJ… It was as expected. Sadly for everyone in the ‘accident’ who had no control.
  Maybe the police could do a booze bus type road stop for every vehicle running down SH1 in that area? Just have it as a random setup around the country where the local road toll is too high.
  
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  May 5, 2019 8:54am
  - CJames
    
    The police regularly set up roadblocks in the back streets of central Taupo and check every vehicle and driver going through. Lots of people left sitting on the side of the road. A wander around supermarket carparks around here show so many vehicles have no reg or warrant, nor would they be likely to get one. And I suspect their drivers wouldn’t pass the impairment tests either.
    
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    May 5, 2019 9:18am
    - doggone7
      
      What would be the response be if the police deployed hundreds of staff up and down the country to supermarket carparks to check and ticket vehicles for warrant / registration / tyre infringements?
      
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      May 5, 2019 10:13am
      - tf78
        
        doggone7- I think they do that quite a lot already. The trouble is for someone who doesn’t earn a lot of money, they need their car to get to work. They take their car for a WOF and something needs to be fixed – they can’t afford it. Then on top of that no WOF fine they get another fine for no rego – that’s $800 of fines and still no money to fix the car. It’s a vicious circle, I can see how it happens but I don’t have the answer.
        
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        May 5, 2019 11:28am
    - kevn
      
      @CJ… I guess the police can’t go onto private property ie supermarket car parks, checking/harvesting data.
      They could do random roadblocks on a daily basis, all over the Bay/Waikato. As another poster noted, that would mess up the police performance stats…
      
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      May 5, 2019 10:39am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      but of course the real problem is garages like Daragville Diesels issuing warrants that are a bit dodge!
      
      My view is that issuing a slightly dodgy warrant and getting the owner to fix the worst issues (tyres, lights, brakes) is much better for all of us, than the car driver simply not bothering at all.
      
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      May 5, 2019 11:57am
- artemisia
  
  Whatever the circs of recent tragic crashes turn out to be, have to wonder about parents who drive their nearest and dearest without making sure they are correctly restrained. I just don’t get it.
  
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  May 5, 2019 9:05am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    Their ability to think through the consequences of their actions (and what might go wrong) is not well developed.
    Either that, or they simply don’t care.
    
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    May 5, 2019 9:23am
  - Stephen James
    
    artemisia
    ……. parents who drive their “nearest and dearest”? without making sure they are correctly restrained.
    Don’t you mean dive their “source of income”?
    Trash taking out the future trash perhaps.
    
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    May 5, 2019 10:18am
- BullyHayes
  
  one of the easy improvements the govt could do regards road safety is to legislate an improvement in tyre quality requirements on cars. currently the standard is simply 1.5mm minimum tread across 75% of the width.
  
  however, the cheapest tires that are available for are still deadly even when brand new and properly inflated.
  
  I once bought a car that had ‘el cheapo’ tires on it and was astounded at the lack of grip offered.
  
  the police used to check the WOF when doing raod side breath-testing, but i guess this has fallen away too…
  
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  May 5, 2019 9:23am
  - Rob2
    
    Yep, anyone can import cheap tyres and sell them.
    No required standards for NZ roads.
    Perhaps NZTA should develop those standards instead of wringing their hands and allowing the police to blame everyone else.
    
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    May 5, 2019 9:56am
    - howitis
      
      NZTA are too busy screwing up over the failed Kapiti expressway surface under their auspices; the failure to ensure driver licensing is valid; the failure to ensure WOF issuing is valid and so on.
      
      Basically there is nothing the NZTA has done in recent years that deserves an ounce of respect and the dodgy CEO left last year while the massively overrated Chairman, Michael Stiassny, finally stood down last week.
      
      NZTA are too busy f..ing up everything they touch already, without adding more things to screw up.
      
      NZTA is a completely broken outfit that needs to be fully dis-assembled then put back together properly.
      It has been creaky for a while and has too much responsibility for which it is not capable of delivering.
      Sadly the current COL outfit full of anti-car commies like Genter can’t even deliver house building under Kiwifail/build or a billion trees (said like Dr Evil) under their watch so deconstructing and reconstructing a workable transport Guv’nor is a no go.
      
      This is the current NZTA Mission Statement on their website.
      You can see they are not serious.
      >>Transport safety
      Our position is that it is unacceptable for anyone to be killed or seriously injured while travelling or working on the land transport system.
      >> Inclusive access
      Our position is that everyone should have fair and equitable access to the transport system.
      >>Liveable communities
      Our position is that we will partner to efficiently combine planning and investment for transport and land use and this will result in more vibrant, interactive communities.
      
      This is just the first three waffle statements and ends with:-
      ‘It’s an exciting time for the Transport Agency as we work to improve our customers’ lives and livelihoods.’
      Yep, that says it. They are not serious.
      At minimum NZTA should be renamed as Waffle, Womble, and Fail.
      
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      May 5, 2019 11:50am
  - CJames
    
    Bully
    At the middle of the day roadblocks I have gone through, the police have checked WoF, Reg, drivers license as well have a visual on the tyres during the breath test.
    
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    May 5, 2019 10:16am
  - cmm
    
    It does not matter what is legislated, because the wheels come off during enforcement.
    
    The higher-up cops do not want to enforce because that will make the numbers look bad.
    
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    May 5, 2019 10:18am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Any evidence for that?
      
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      May 5, 2019 11:01am
    - cmm
      
      mma: Not that you deserve anyone doing your Googling for you, but:
      
      1) Catch and release
      2) “Colonialism has failed” from Andy Little.
      3) Unlicensed Maori not to be given fines.
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11466496
      
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      May 5, 2019 1:24pm
      - Tall Man
        
        “Smack” for mikey………..
        
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        May 5, 2019 2:27pm
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Yup, buy $60 tyres if you have a $240 life.
    
    I have been horrified at the crap that comes on cars, even from reputable Toyota dealers. What the hell is a “Windride”.
    
    Goodrich, Goodyear or falken on the trucks, Michelin or Pirelli on the cars for me. Its more expensive, but they last well, and I have my family in there!
    
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    May 5, 2019 12:00pm
    - cmm
      
      C’mon 4 space savers any yah sweet!
      
      I agree good tyres cost less in the long run and don’t cost much more.
      
      But somehow the dickheads will manage to find the big bucks for the low profile rubbish that is apsolutely terrible on a real road.
      
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      May 5, 2019 3:07pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      I’ve always found that the top Bridgestone road tyres are excellent for my VAG group cars, excellent wet and dry grip plus long lasting.
      
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      May 5, 2019 6:51pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  You may find that when the government tenders research projects to the private sector on topics involving Polynesian or Maori aspects (such as research into smoking and Maori youth) the brief for the project requires that the research companies tendering for the project have documented Maori (or Pacific Island) researchers.
  My old research company had one blond-haired blue-eyed fellow who was documented as 1/16th of some major iwi, and this got around the requirement.
  
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  May 5, 2019 9:29am
  - alien
    
    it was carried out by a DHB and their doctors.
    
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    May 5, 2019 10:02am
- alien
  
  the article doesn’t actually say that the deaths are just form car crashes, it is from cancer, heart disease, car crashes etc. And the study was carried out by Doctors. Perhaps if Doctors are saying something we should actually listen and see what we can do about it.
  
  This is an important part of the study and I don’t think a single person would have any problems iwth the fact we need to improve our health system
  
  “Deaths were considered potentially preventable if they could have been avoided by having access to high-quality and timely medical intervention, or by addressing risk factors such as tobacco or alcohol use, economic status, and environmental factors including overcrowded or poor-quality housing”
  
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  May 5, 2019 9:59am
  - CJames
    
    You are trying to play cute semantics alien, rather than address the topic.. The piece says ” It found 47.3 per cent of deaths of Pacific people and 53 per cent of Māori were attributed to potentially avoidable causes, such as cancers, heart disease, car crashes and suicide. For non-Māori/Pacific people, it’s less than one quarter.
    The study authors said the healthcare system needed to recognise and address the role racism played in creating those disparities. ” So road deaths are specifically identified as a potentially avoidable cause and racism caused it.
    
    That rad deaths caused by racism is all I posted on.
    Now how could any of these “solutions” stop the Maori road deaths? “Deaths were considered potentially preventable if they could have been avoided by having access to high-quality and timely medical intervention, or by addressing risk factors such as tobacco or alcohol use, economic status, and environmental factors including overcrowded or poor-quality housing.”
    
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    May 5, 2019 10:23am
    - alien
      
      no, you’re just leaving out the facts of the article to twist it to say something other than what it is actually a study off. Too many people on this site do this and it is wrong. The true racism is taking an article like that and pointing it as you have, disgusting.
      
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      May 5, 2019 11:21am
      - CJames
        
        What facts about ROAD DEATHS did I leave out? The Article says racism causes the high Maori/ PI mortality in road deaths. I made no comment at all about the other issues.
        
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        May 5, 2019 12:21pm
  - artemisia
    
    If the thing in your hand is a hammer, every problem is a nail. So not a surprise that medical people think medical intervention is key. I can see that the GP giving advice about smoking, drinking, drugs, diet and exercise is a good thing, but what sort of intervention leads to the advice actually being followed. And of course the GP has to be consulted in the first place.
    
    All that assumes those suffering from lung cancer, diabetes etc really have no idea that their lifestyle is the cause, or at least contributing.
    
    At some point, that unfair concept of personal responsibility has to kick in. Or with this government, not.
    
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    May 5, 2019 11:12am
- Schmegegge
  
  “Word from those there that had to clean up the mess is that the van had bald tyres, seatbelts weren’t used and the vehicle did not have a warrant of fitness.”
  
  I guess rumour wouldn’t be able to determine whether the WoF was one of the thousands that were issued incorrectly under the supervision of the government.
  
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  May 5, 2019 10:29am
  - CJames
    
    They didn’t have warrants, not that they had dodgy ones.
    
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    May 5, 2019 11:45am
- Straight arrow
  
  Selective use of statistics by researchers, and me below.
  The health system is sexist.
  Males are much more likely than females to be killed in motor vehicle traffic crashes. Between 2010 and 2014, the average annual motor vehicle traffic crash mortality rate for males was 9.8 deaths per 100,000 males, while the rate for females was 4.0 deaths per 100,000 females.
  http://socialreport.msd.govt.nz/safety/road-casualties.html
  
  New Zealand males between the ages of 15 and 60, with 81 deaths per 1000 people in 2012, while females were 53 deaths per 1000 in that age range.
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/63816515/null
  Total cancer mortality, 25+ years, rate per 100,000, 2010–12: Non-Maori Male 133, Female 110.
  https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/populations/maori-health/tatau-kahukura-maori-health-statistics/nga-mana-hauora-tutohu-health-status-indicators/cancer
  
  Easy, but not very ethical, or useful.
  
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  May 5, 2019 5:43pm
mikenmildagain

Happy International Midwives’ Day!
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May 5, 2019 8:02am
- alien
  
  awww, maybe one day they will become full wives
  
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  May 5, 2019 10:02am
Tony Stuart

Bryan Bruce, him of anti-National documentaries in election week, has taken a swipe at Simon Bridges for his speech in the General Debate on Wednesday. It was a “robust” speech, made even more robust when Winston Peters tried to get leave for Bridges to have five more minutes. Mallard correctly ruled that a Member cannot seek leave for someone else, so Bridges sought leave on his own account and it was granted.

Here’s a link to the post:

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/05/03/guest-blog-bryan-bruce-we-deserve-better-from-our-politicians/

Oddly though, while his post is titled “We deserve better from our politicians”, Bryan Bruce says nothing about Willie Jackson’s name calling half an hour later in the very same debate. I would have thought, to an inveterate leftie like Bruce, suggesting someone wasn’t Maori enough, or that someone else should “go back to Italy” when his adoptive parents have a FRENCH surname would have been at least as worthy of criticism.

I guess it really IS okay when the Left do it!
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May 5, 2019 8:23am
- kowtow
  
  I would suggest that had a white politician , of the ‘right”, made any comments marginally similar to those of Jackson’s the media storm would have been of epic proportions.
  This tells us a number of things .
  
  ‘Equality’ is a lie , racism is a one way street , ‘diversity’ is used to bash honkey , and most importantly the media , they who create the heat around ‘controversy” are actually the race baiters , the hypocrites , the dividers , the trouble makers that they make the “right” out to be.
  
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  May 5, 2019 8:36am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Jackson has doubled down on his racism, and suggests his comments weren’t that bad, and that Paula Bennett is “trying to play the race card”.
    
    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/05/03/willie-jackson-hits-back/
    
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    May 5, 2019 8:49am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Standard technique of the Left.
      Blame the victim…especially if it is a woman who has “talked back”.
      
      Watch who joins in “the bash”.
      
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      May 5, 2019 8:58am
      - kowtow
        
        Wouldn’t it be great to see the sisters of the metoo brigade getting involved to side with a sister ?
        But as Paula would be seen to be a “right winger” maybe she’s not only not Maori enough , but she’s not sister enough either.
        
        Just goes to show how hypocritical the whole identity politics thing is.
        
        But identity politics is not about people , it’s about accumulating power and then silencing your opponents and then ordering them about.
        
        The answer is “Equal before the law” . End of.
        
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        May 5, 2019 9:11am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        One law for all sort of thing.
        
        Where was that shouted down recently . . . .
        
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        May 5, 2019 9:22am
      - sooty
        
        We Willie issues a press report to the daily blog, what would the standard not run it?
        
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        May 5, 2019 9:24am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Sooty – Jackson and Bomber Bradbury are old mates.
        
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        May 5, 2019 9:43am
    - The King
      
      Ah the old “there is only one race the human race” also “White people bad Maori good” Jackson at it again.
      
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      May 5, 2019 11:24am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Yesterday we were told Jacinda Ardern had “reined” Jackson in…
      looks like he’s given her the finger and is galloping away.
      
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      May 5, 2019 12:10pm
- pdm
  
  Excellent Inv – definitely worth more than one uptick.
  
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  May 5, 2019 9:07am
- alien
  
  of course it is ok to say such things. Mallard constantly let Peter’s call Finlyason a fairy, Brownlee fat. Joyce Bald. No one cares unless it comes from national’s side.
  
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  May 5, 2019 10:06am
G152

Jackson is showing his true colours.
Racists can’t keep quiet
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May 5, 2019 8:29am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Jackson adds nothing to parliment, just nothing aside from a new low bar.
  
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  May 5, 2019 8:57am
  - sooty
    
    He’s just there for the free lunch!
    Just like when he was in school!
    
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    May 5, 2019 9:17am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    That rest of the CoL caucus is determined to get under.
    
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    May 5, 2019 10:07am
  - Jack5
    
    Don’t under-estimate Wily Willie Jackson. His hijack of Radio New Zealand on behalf of the 20 tribal radio stations was a very clever coup.
    
    Despite Radio NZ’s Red Radio’s Leftist bias, there wasn’t a word from the National Government. Wily Willie “Maorified” the State radio organisation, which now portrays itself as a State multi-media broadcaster.
    
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    May 5, 2019 10:47am
    - Kevin Herlihy
      
      Willie walked away from the Maori Party after keeping everyone in suspense as to whether he was going to stand in Tamaki Makaurau. He wouldn’t stand with his own people.
      You might recall Labour bent over backwards to offer him a plumb position on the list ahead of seasoned Labour M.P’s who had done the hard yards, so he got a sweet heart deal which he has coasted on since.
      Willie, after years as a sports hack talkback host has perfected the art of looking serious when you talk to him but he doesn’t listen to a word you say, a handy skill for politicians.
      Plus when you are on a marae out the back peeling spuds and Willie visits, you notice him swanning around like a big cheese but he doesn’t lift a finger to help out.
      
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      May 5, 2019 11:36am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  That’s certainly was the case on Kiwiblog. Anyone missing ‘starboard’ and the others who can no longer comment?
  
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  May 5, 2019 9:02am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    We’re certainly not missing ztev, while he serves a one-year ban for repeatedly abusing DPF’s hospitality.
    
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    May 5, 2019 9:05am
    - kevn
      
      @Tony… Yes, z was quite a nasty character.
      
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      May 5, 2019 10:36am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    No…enough of an answer for ya?
    
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    May 5, 2019 9:48am
  - Rob2
    
    Well some of us MM can handle all of you.
    Obviously you are in the can’t handle so no free speech group.
    
    If you didn’t bother to bait people you wouldn’t have to put up with their replies just for your benefit.
    
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    May 5, 2019 10:00am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      How did you get the idea that I oppose free speech?
      
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      May 5, 2019 10:19am
      - Tall Man
        
        I don’t know, maybe because you always pop up with a small bucket of bullshit rather than deal with the subject in hand, especially if it seems to highlight the stupidity of the leader you seem to adore. I just can’t understand why you love “what’s in it for wynston” so much.
        
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        May 5, 2019 10:03pm
  - Swifty
    
    Can no longer comment or choose to no longer comment?
    
    11 0
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    May 5, 2019 11:10am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Words never heard in history: thank you honkey for increasing our life expectancy two and a half times, thank you for this opportunity, thank you . . . .
  
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  May 5, 2019 10:02am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    “What did the Romans ever do for us?”
    
    11 8
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    May 5, 2019 10:20am
    - Jack5
      
      A link to a transcription of the Romans bit Milky refers to. It’s from ‘Monty Python’s Life of Brian’. A nice bit of humour:
      
      http://www.epicure.demon.co.uk/whattheromans.html
      
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      May 5, 2019 11:23am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Apart from the roads, the aquaducts, education and healthcare. I’ll tell you, Nothing!
      
      13 0
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      May 5, 2019 12:03pm
      - Lance
        
        That was Willie Jackson’s idiotic mantra during the last election;
        Nation have spent;
        NOTHING on health
        NOTHING on welfare
        NOTHING on Maori claims
        etc etc
        The man talked demonstrably vacuous drivel and the media didn’t haul him up on any of it.
        
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        May 5, 2019 3:05pm
KevO'Brien

Where has the USA been and is going–a wider view from Prof James Petras.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-global-power-trump-period/5676244
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May 5, 2019 8:39am
- Tall Man
  
  Don’t know… don’t care.
  
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  May 5, 2019 9:53pm
krazykiwi

In 2012 the World Bank noted that the per-capita foreign aid to Gaza was the highest in the world, and more than double the next highest recipient.

Unemployment there now stands at 52%, while their ‘leadership’ uses the funds to demonstrate their hatred of Israel.

This week is was firing hundreds of rockets towards Israel from residential areas, and their hope of some media outrage by way of a retaliation to kill some of their own was realised.

The UN, of course, either stays silent or more likely waits before convening another session to condemn Israel.
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May 5, 2019 8:51am
- The King
  
  You ever read “The Luntz report” or watched “The Israel lobby” ? I have and i don’t buy your Israeli propaganda for 1 second.
  
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  May 5, 2019 11:30am
  - Lance
    
    Show me the money!
    
    Oddly enough Yasir Arafat was personally worth at least $1.3 billion when he died, while his people starved. I’m betting the new lot aren’t any less thieving
    
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    May 5, 2019 3:10pm
    - Southern Raider
      
      Abbas in the 15 year of his maximum 4 year term as President
      
      I bet he has a few Swiss bank accounts and property in Paris
      
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      May 5, 2019 3:52pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    The firing of the rockets is, of course, a war crime. But one that the left and the UN are happy to overlook as the people being targeted are Jews, and hence not really human.
    
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    May 5, 2019 7:27pm
Maggie Pie

Just got a call from my partner – hes on his way home already. Only the one duck this morning, but he was saying things turned a little ‘hostile’ with some hunters on the other side of the estuary. So rather than risk a confrontation, he left early. He said all he did was go down to the waters edge and call his dog because it had become a bit lost in the reeds. Next minute, these guys on the opposite bank start yelling out things like “F…wit”, ”F….ing Tool “, “Moron”, and that sort of thing. Mind you, its not the first time the dog has caused problems. I told him when he first got it from the SPCA that calling him ‘Shark’ sounded a bit silly.
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May 5, 2019 9:02am
- sooty
  
  Did he finish shooting all of the decoys.
  I suppose that would save having to carry them home.
  
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  May 5, 2019 9:20am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    LOL!! Wouldn’t surprise me Sooty 🙂
    Sounds like he bagged 12 ducks in total for Opening Weekend. Not as many as last year but not too bad. I guess i’ll be faced with a fair bit of plucking once he gets back.
    
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    May 5, 2019 10:08am
    - Swifty
      
      Is your mate a pheasant plucker?
      
      8 0
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      May 5, 2019 11:06am
      - Tall Man
        
        Or a pleasant……
        
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        May 5, 2019 9:52pm
    - mark15
      
      MP
      I went on a goat block.I can say that I don’t feel undergunned with a bolt action 10 shot .223.
      
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      May 5, 2019 7:05pm
      - Tall Man
        
        You will when the “grumpy” goats come after you…….
        
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        May 5, 2019 8:28pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  You will find that the SPCA has an uncanny ability to name their animals prior to adoption.
  
  Our cat was originally names “smooch” by the SPCA when we adopted her as a 2-month-old kitten. We have never used that name for her, but it describes her perfectly.
  
  Don’t adopt a cute part-Rottweiler puppy named by the SPCA as “ripper” or “shark.”
  
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  May 5, 2019 9:57am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I think thats excellent advice senpai sen. Unbeknown to us, the very first rescue dog we got some years back had been taught to ‘hump’ on command. The original owners had obviously thort it was funny. My partner soon discovered it was best not to go round saying things like, “Well f~~k me”
    
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    May 5, 2019 11:15am
    - Lance
      
      My parents once that the most evil cat in history.
      Oddly enough it was going to put down and they ‘rescued it’ from the vet.
      I’m picking the previous owners knew something the folks later found out 🙂
      
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      May 5, 2019 3:13pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Bet they kept it and it was their favourite.
        
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        May 5, 2019 9:54pm
srylands

https://www.zerocarboncapital.nz/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=zero-carbon-capital

Why can’t National run a policy on reform of local government? It should pledge to legislate to constrain the role of local government to make initiatives like this one unlawful.
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May 5, 2019 9:02am
- artemisia
  
  Reckon that would be a popular policy with voters, though binding referenda on nice-to-haves time to time would be good. Almost all of us have an opinion about our local authorities, and although not usually in a good way we still keep voting in the spendthrifts, the ideologues, the troughers and those with their name on their legacy.
  
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  May 5, 2019 9:46am
- mikenmildagain
  
  It’s a lot simpler than that. If you object to what your councillors do, organise your friends and similarly right-minded people to vote you on to the council instead. If enough people care about your approach to issues, your preferred result will succeed.
  
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  May 5, 2019 9:58am
  - Paulus
    
    The Councillors are not important – they are controlled totally by the Council Executives and minority lobby groups.
    Vote them out and get another similar.
    Not changed in many years – only the increase in the number of personnel employed, and sub contractors – many of whom are ex employees.
    
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    May 5, 2019 10:33am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Your perceived powerlessness leads me to despair for democracy. Do you display a similar resignation and lack of courage over any other things?
      
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      May 5, 2019 12:12pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Your first sentence is excellent, your second again confirms you are just like being a prick. The personal attack is just pathetic but on a par with what we have come to expect from you.
        
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        May 5, 2019 1:59pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Sarc aside, it is the reality of local govt. Employees no longer answer to councillors. Councillors are not even allowed to talk to most of council staff. They have become self serving beauracracies. Reform desperately needed
        
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        May 5, 2019 8:21pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  They did.
  http://www.dia.govt.nz/Policy-Advice-Areas—Local-Government-Policy—Better-Local-Government-brochure
  An extract from this.
  Previous local government legislation placed limits on council borrowing but was repealed. The rapid rise in council expenditure and borrowing over the past decade has seen some councils reach unsustainable levels of debt. The government is proposing new tools for encouraging financial prudence.
  This report is dated 2012
  Fat chance labour will do anything about it.
  They are hell bent on getting Labour into the local govt., for when they are no longer in the treasury benches.
  Don’t believe me?
  Goofy goff wants to raise $500 mill for his daft train tunnel fantasy project that is already over budget.
  
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  May 5, 2019 10:01am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    What government action followed that 2012 report?
    
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    May 5, 2019 10:22am
  - tf78
    
    Labour have been heavily into local govt since Labour got kicked out in 2018 – that’s where all their ousted MP’s went – they are well and truly ensconced and unfortunately they ain’t going now where else anytime soon.
    
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    May 5, 2019 12:30pm
    - sooty
      
      Certainly not backing out of the trough anytime soon!
      
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      May 5, 2019 3:05pm
- Durden
  
  Totally agree. I think we have to go deeper. We have too much government in the form of councils (13 C+53 DC) and regional councils (11) and DHBs (20) for a small country the size of ours – both in terms of land area and population.
  
  It might help if the government had to publish a percentage of the average tax payers salary grabbed by government and government agency-like organisations in the form of income tax, levies (ACC, EQC, petrol levy etc), local rates and levies. Add the innumerable number of previously publicly funded items now taken off the book and funded by user pays regimes while utilising the funds released for grandiose projects. Have seen income tax reductions, but have never seen rates reduction in my life so far.
  
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  May 5, 2019 2:22pm
  - Tall Man
    
    I probably have my numbers a bit out but when h1 was growing education dept I saw some scary numbers.
    
    Greater Manchester had a similar number of students, teachers and educational enterprises but had approx 30 staff whereas NZ had over 3,000.
    
    I had a client who was attending Uni for his second degree full time. I asked him how he got on with time off and he said they were too scared to ask him because he was the “token” coconut.
    
    Times don’t change really.
    
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    May 5, 2019 8:22pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/112430469/taxi-driver-suspended-after-telling-a-man-whos-been-a-kiwi-for-nearly-20-years-to-go-home

I would like to know the nationality of the suspended taxi driver.
Not mentioned at all: could it possibly be a bit embarrassing ?
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May 5, 2019 9:21am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I should guess they are both ‘New Zealanders’.
  
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  May 5, 2019 9:59am
  - The King
    
    You can fly in on a plane from south Sudan speak no English sign a piece of paper and hey presto “i’m a New Zealander”
    
    The term ‘New Zealander’ means nothing at all. Absolutely nothing.
    
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    May 5, 2019 11:34am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      No, you really, really can’t just fly in, from South Sudan or anywhere else, sign a piece of paper and become a New Zealander.
      
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      May 5, 2019 12:41pm
      - Tall Man
        
        An exaggeration certainly, but after having attended a citizenship ceremony the comment isn’t far wrong.
        
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        May 5, 2019 1:55pm
  - burt
    
    Or if they are not already, once they import some class-a drugs and get a few selfies with the PM they will be.
    
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    May 5, 2019 12:09pm
- Straight arrow
  
  I would like to know why the paper mentioned the religion of the victim (Muslim). That is totally irrelevant.
  
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  May 5, 2019 10:06am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Because muslims are victims and WE need to be reminded at every opportunity that muslims are victims, hence, the purpose of the article.
    
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    May 5, 2019 10:26am
    - sooty
      
      Here have another handout!
      Would you like Ciny to visit!
      
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      May 5, 2019 12:14pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Can I have a cuddle with it?
        
        1 0
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        May 5, 2019 8:15pm
- Nermal
  
  Nothing new. As a Dutch child immigrant I was told “Go home clog” sixty years ago. But we never ran to the news to complain
  
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  May 5, 2019 3:56pm
Than

Looking at the Super Rugby table (in particular the Wins/Loses column) it’s striking how close this year’s competition is.

You have the Crusaders and Hurricanes well ahead of the pack. Even this far out, it wouldn’t be at all surprising to see these two teams meet in the final.

You have the Sunwolves and the Chiefs behind everybody else.

But in the middle things are extremely crowded. Both the Australian and South African conferences are wide open. All teams (bar the Sunwolves) are still very much in contention to win their conference, and/or take a wild card slot.
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May 5, 2019 9:28am
- Tony Stuart
  
  That can’t happen Than. The best the Hurricanes can finish (assuming the Crusaders finish top) is fourth, which would give them a home quarter-final, then a semi-final away to the Crusaders. The South African and Australian pool winners will share the second and third placings, even if they are lower on the table than the ‘Canes. At least on that basis, there should be a Kiwi team in the final!
  
  Thank goodness this is the last year of conference stupidity!
  
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  May 5, 2019 9:39am
  - MCos
    
    I like to watch baseball on TV. As far as I can tell the competition format hasn’t changed much for a hundred years although with the ease of travel it’s spread across the country.
    Each year the teams play a staggering number of games and each one has probably has more spectators than any rugby games in NZ outside test matches.
    On the other hand rugby is constantly trying new competition formats that last a few years before needed yet another jolt from the defibrillator.
    Baseball isn’t a particularly spectacular game, but everyone is waiting for a couple of moments of magic.
    Rugby (& cricket) used to be like that, but that won’t do anymore and so games have to have ‘home runs’ every five minutes. Even that is drawing the crowds in NZ anymore.
    
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    May 5, 2019 10:33am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I understand the new format for 2019 is to be unveiled tomorrow.
    The South Africans and Argentinians are out – they are joining the European competition.
    NZ and Australia are joining a new Asia-Pacific competition of 12 teams. To fit in some new franchises, there will be a little bit of restructuring of the current team:
    One team from the South Island (as there is only one stadium there), provisionally named the Southern Snowflakes. Four teams in the North Island, based in Wellington (Bureaucrats), Hamilton (Bogans) and Auckland (2 teams – as they have two stadia – the Maungakiekie Manicurists and the Rangitoto Realtors).
    Three Australian teams, based in Perth, Brisbane and Canberra (chosen as a compromise between Melbourne and Sydney).
    One team based in Fiji.
    One team in Japan.
    One team in China.
    One team in Indonesia (provisionally named the Jakarta Jihadis)
    
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    May 5, 2019 10:38am
  - Than
    
    Good point, I hadn’t clicked to that. Still, penciling in the Crusaders/Hurricanes for 1st and 4th seems a sensible bet.
    
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    May 6, 2019 7:23am
- MCos
  
  Whoever looks after the trophy they present to the winner might as well engrave the Crusaders name on it now. They drew with some boring lot from SA last night because they were missing key key players.
  What other professional competition in the world would allow their top players to be periodically stood down for a wee rest.
  If they want them to have a break tell them to flatten someone and get a red card as happens in football.
  
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  May 5, 2019 9:59am
  - doggone7
    
    They drew with some boring lot from SA because the players who weren’t missing did some dumb things or had skill lapses e.g. Taylor, Read.
    
    I agree about the resting of top players. I think Read and Whitelock should have played in every game from round one and should play every game right through to the final. Then they should pack their kit and go offand play each and every All Back game.
    
    When they are knackered and the All Blacks crap out at the RWC it won’t matter because we would’ve won the Super Rugby.
    
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    May 5, 2019 10:22am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hurricanes clearly second best, but as Tony pointed out above, most likely to meet the Crusaders in a semi due to the format.
    
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    May 5, 2019 10:59am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      The Hurricanes looked fantastic in the first half hour last night, but did they touch the ball again after that? The try Laumape scored was an absolute cracker.
      
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      May 5, 2019 12:20pm
  - Morrissey
    
    …. tell them to flatten someone and get a red card as happens in football.
    
    ??????
    
    They’re playing football, you dimwit.
    
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    May 6, 2019 12:47pm
Happychappy

You would think the Herald would be better than this as it is just a campaign to get Jacinda re elected in 2020.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12227879
You would have thought it would be premium news but obviously didn’t those that they needed to vote in the next Election couldn’t afford it.
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May 5, 2019 9:29am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Not ‘couldn’t afford it’, more a case of choose not to.
  
  Enjoyng an extra coffee a week with the saving while escaping the elevated blood pressure issues the Auckland chip wrapper provided
  
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  May 5, 2019 10:14am
- burt
  
  I’m surprised they didn’t suggest she could get married somewhere with large lawns. The bridal party could all be photographed on ride on lawnmowers.
  
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  May 5, 2019 11:09am
  - sooty
    
    Wonder who is suppling the entertainent powder?
    Will the dud cheque be allowed out on day release?
    
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    May 5, 2019 12:08pm
- Tall Man
  
  Mate, I’m having a wee break over here in Oz and that post just happened to coincide with my breakfast.
  
  How about a little consideration for those of us on different timelines and avoid vomit inducing posts well outside meal times.
  
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  May 5, 2019 1:47pm
- calendar girl
  
  Clarke Gayford now credited as being a “television star”?
  
  What utter garbage from the once-proud “Herald”!
  
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  May 5, 2019 5:57pm
  - Tall Man
    
    It’s quite sad really, we live in a very shallow world at the moment.
    
    Could you imagine an Anais Nin or George Orwell emerging these days without being crushed by the ignorant?
    
    … Me neither.
    
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    May 5, 2019 8:04pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    We are short of talent.
    
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    May 5, 2019 9:01pm
lemuzz

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100…
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this…

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7..
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay £18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.

So, that’s what they decided to do..

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball.

“Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by £20”. Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.

So the first four men were unaffected.

They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men?
The paying customers?

How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?

They realised that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if they
subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).

The sixth now paid £2 instead of £3 (33% saving).

The seventh now paid £5 instead of £7 (28% saving).
The eighth now paid £9 instead of £12 (25% saving).

The ninth now paid £14 instead of £18 (22% saving).

The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% saving).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.

“I only got a pound out of the £20 saving,” declared the sixth man.

He pointed to the tenth man,”but he got £10!”

“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a pound too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!”

“That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get £10 back, when I got only £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”

“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works.

The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction.

Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore.

In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible
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May 5, 2019 9:45am
- RW Capitalist
  
  The think the CoL don’t understand
  A tax cut is NOT giving anyone anything.
  It is simply not TAKING as much as they used to.
  The “money’ is OURS…the worker/business owner etc.
  TAX is mandated removal of OUR money by the govt. at a rate THEY deem “prudent”.
  (I Sicily that would be mafia extortion.)
  To spend on what they, (supposedly, our representatives) deem to be relevant.
  Suggest all, look into what they really spend it on.
  Decide whether
  working groups
  Slushy machines
  etcetc
  are actually what YOU want YOUR money to buy.
  
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  May 5, 2019 11:51am
- rightoverlabour
  
  Very astute…. Of course the commies won’t understand any of this….
  
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  May 5, 2019 6:31pm
alloytoo

Please, I’ve just eaten.
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May 5, 2019 10:18am
BrownSnake

Recent Cooperation with Australia regarding Crime
by the NZ Government

Pretty safe to assume the approach to
Counter Terrorism is the same arrogant immature whinge.

1. Jacinda Adhern
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-22/nz-prime-minister-lashes-australias-corrosive-deportations/10839120
Jacinda Ardern lashes ‘corrosive’ deportations from Australia to New Zealand

2. Winston Peters
NZ Foreign Minister Winston Peters on the fairness of Australia’s deportation system
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-17/nz-foreign-minister-on-fairness-of-australias-deportation-system/10000066

3.NZ Justice Minister Andrew Little on Australia’s ‘venal’ politics

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-17/nz-justice-minister-andrew-little-on-australias-venal-politics/9999944

Is someone anyone trying to tell me that these SPOILT CHILDREN CIVIL SERVANTS have in the past and are going to in the future Cooperate with Australia in a Mature intelligent and professional manner in the future wth Australia on important
issues like counter Terrorism.?

Are you Serious?

The Criminal Kiwi Population have worn out their Welcome and Australia has had enough as they struggles with massive counter Terrorism and Security problems.

They do not have the time or the Money to put kiwis through the court system and prison system those funds must be allocated to Terrorism prevention.

If New Zealand Ministers from top to bottom
do not “drop the attitude” and “stop playing politics”
with “tragedy”.

Their RETARDED approach thus far (if it continues) will only ensure NZ wears another one and it might be
sooner than you realise.

<
Australia planning first ever prison unit built specifically to keep terrorists in isolation

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/australia-builds-prison-unit-isolate-terrorists-inmates-maximum-security-prevent-radicatisation-isis-a7784731.html
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May 5, 2019 10:38am
Jack5

Jacinderella’s plan for a coup co-opting Emmanuel Macron, and topping her international hijab-wearing publicity success after the Christchurch massacre, has just been Trumped.

Jacinderella wanted herself and Mrs Macron’s boy to tame internet social media.

The American President has Trumped this with an outburst attacking social media companies – because he believes they are biased against conservatives.

Trump was triggered by Facebook’s new move to ban what it sees as “hate” figures. Among those blocked are right-wing personalities including Paul Nehlen, Milo Yiannopoulos, Paul Joseph Watson and Laura Loomer.

These undoubtedly would have been targets of Jacinderella’s planned international summit with Macron,other political leaders, and, she hoped, internet social media heads.

When it comes to the internet, America is king. And Jacinderella has zero chances of roping in the present head of America.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/trump-attacks-social-media-companies-after-facebook-bans-20190505-p51k5t.html
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May 5, 2019 10:55am
- stephieboy
  
  “These undoubtedly would have been targets of Jacinderella’s planned …” ??
  
  Fact or surmise?
  
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  May 5, 2019 11:43am
- sooty
  
  What is Cindy going to do when Mr Trump gives her the one finger salute?
  Man them frowny faces are getting worse, she must practise in front of the mirror!
  
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  May 5, 2019 12:04pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  I heard a good line yesterday:
  
  “Paris is so just going to be a Frog and Pony show”
  
  For some reason I thought it was pretty apt.
  
  Funny that Trump is going to rain hard on their parade too. Strikes me as really foolish to keep pissing off the USA as well as Australia and China…. at this rate we will be the Venezuela of the South Pacific, rather than the South Pacific Scandi they keep telling us we need to be….
  
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  May 5, 2019 12:08pm
Swifty

A notice for all those young, or not so young, ‘journalists’ who routinely demonstrate their sheer ignorance while reporting events in New Zealand:

Wapiti (not elk!) – bull, cow, calf
Red Deer – stag, hind, fawn
Fallow Deer – buck, doe, fawn

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/112450030/morrinsville-farmer-mauled-by-deer-after-trying-to-free-it-from-a-fence

A ‘fallow’ stag makes as much sense as calling young dogs kittens, or a young sheep a foal, or bull cattle a calf.

FFS.

My good deed for the day.
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May 5, 2019 11:02am
stephieboy

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
“Kaipara ‘sending a signal’ about climate change”

“Kaipara’s mayor is urging action on climate change because rising seas will inundate some of the most productive land north of Auckland.

The Kaipara District Council this week signed up to the local government leaders’ declaration on climate change.

Dr Jason Smith Photo: Supplied

Kaipara mayor Jason Smith said the council had to sign the declaration because climate change would hit the district hard.

It has more than 1000 kilometres of coastline and more than 25,000 hectares of land within a metre of the current high-tide mark.

“That land is some of the most valuable, versatile soils north of Auckland….”

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/content/tvnz/onenews/story/2019/05/05/kaipara-sending-a-signal-about-climate-change.html

How long must climate change deniers must bury their heads in the “Kaipara’s” Sand bar?

Sad!
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May 5, 2019 11:04am
- Jack5
  
  A thousand kilometres of coastline in Kaipara?
  
  The length of a coastline depends on the units used in the measurement and can vary widely. The smaller scale unit the longer the measurement for the coastline.
  
  The length of a country’s coastline reflects the shape of the land mass. The smaller North Island has a longer coast line than the bigger South Island.
  
  Little NZ, with its islands and long narrow shape, is usually regarded as having the ninth longest national coastline. Estimates vary from 15,000 to 18,000 km.
  
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  May 5, 2019 11:35am
- The King
  
  How long before these climate change extremists start killing people? These fanatics need to be put on watchlists.
  
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  May 5, 2019 11:40am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Best they all evacuate the area ASAP then.
  
  I’m happy to occupy the best bits at no cost to look after them while we all wait to die….
  
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  May 5, 2019 12:09pm
- Ross12
  
  What are you, personally, doing about CC stephieboy?
  
  10 1
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  May 5, 2019 1:23pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Seriously, don’t engage or you’ll be sorry.
    
    She is nothing but a troll who gets excited by winding up others.
    
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    May 5, 2019 1:39pm
    - Ross12
      
      I understand your point Tall Man but I got what I expected –no response.
      
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      May 5, 2019 5:12pm
- The Heat
  
  Okay Jas. You and all your greenie mates should all move as far inland as you can – might I suggest Lumsden.
  
  Because there is nothing funnier than a greenist living anywhere near the water whilst telling us all how bad it will be to…..live by the water.
  
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  May 5, 2019 4:17pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Fuck, you are thick. Sea level is naturally rising as a result of the earth coming out of the last Glacial Maximum 20,000 years ago, with a short pause about 11,000 yeras ago (teh Younger Dryas). Its got fuck all to do with non exitent global warming or climate change, or any otyher shit the IPCC has been peddling for the last 20 years or so. Start reading some real science and then come and argue coherently.
  
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  May 5, 2019 6:27pm
BrownSnake

Listen to the F wit

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/25/new-zealand-flag-winston-peters-australia-copy

Stop copying New Zealand’s flag, Winston Peters tells Australia

Acting PM further strains ties with neighbour, urging Australia to find its own design

<
This is Cringe Worthy Stuff from Senior Members
of the New Zealand Government.

Top Priority the Australian Flag.

Must be time to go to France
and Preach to the world that they now know a thing or two about Counter Terrorism.

SEND IN THE CLOWNS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1fVQGESUTo

Don't you love farce?
My fault, I fear
I thought that you'd want what I want
Sorry, my dear!
But where are the clowns
Send in the clowns
Don't bother, they're here
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May 5, 2019 11:06am
- stephieboy
  
  Swifty, shall we rate your yawn factor?
  
  0 Mildly worth a yawn to 10 Biggest yawn.
  
  1 21
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  May 5, 2019 11:45am
  - Tall Man
    
    How about we rate your input steffy girl?
    
    No point really, there is no doubt you have little to add to any of the conversations you feel obliged to troll.
    
    I pity you really.
    
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    May 5, 2019 1:32pm
  - Swifty
    
    Do you think you addressed this to the right person, Stiffy?
    
    Man, you cock up everything you touch don’t you.
    
    I see your time away hasn’t improved you in any way.
    
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    May 5, 2019 2:51pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  BrownSnake – a bit like Philip Ure in days of old, but without all the fullstops and ..eh..?
  
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  May 5, 2019 12:22pm
  - Jack5
    
    Philip Ure … wasn’t he the poster who had done a stretch in the slammer for armed robbery? As I recall, the way he spelled it out on Kiwiblog, it was a pretty mild robbery, not involving a firearm, and he was looking for money for this then drug habit. No-one was hurt. In fact, I think the target (a pharmacy?) more or less just called the cops to take him away.
    
    His plethora of fullstops led to folk posting in the General Debate thread, for Ure, slabs of posts containing just full stops, in case he ran out.
    
    I think at the time he was a solo dad, so maybe his child grew up, and Ure had to go back to work.
    
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    May 5, 2019 1:11pm
    - Jack5
      
      I think Ure told his story in a post on Kiwiblog on 14 Febuary 2005.
      
      It was quoted in General Debate by Elaycee on 23 October 2011.
      
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      May 5, 2019 1:18pm
      - sooty
        
        I hope Elaycee is well? Have not heard from her in awhile!
        
        5 0
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        May 5, 2019 3:10pm
    - Swifty
      
      https://www.facebook.com/phillip.ure
      
      He’s got the RWNJs on the run……
      
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      May 5, 2019 5:46pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    ah .. philu.. those were the days.
    
    .. whoar ..!
    
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    May 5, 2019 7:17pm
alien

of course the top Priority isnt the austliran flag, just another person on this blog taking an article and twisting facts and truth for their own gain.
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May 5, 2019 11:24am
- BrownSnake
  
  Learn how to spell Australian, Speak and write English and also engage what is left of your brain before replying.
  
  It is a perfectly sensible, logical and common sense to look at the cooperation between NZ and Aus on crime and security in recent years to see what can be improved for everyones sake.
  
  There were are 1300-1500 kiwis deported recently
  which is a National disgrace and probably worth having a Royal Commission on after the one booked is completed.
  
  We have one minister in France?
  another who wants Australia to change their flag
  and another thinks some how the
  Australian tax payer should foot the bill
  for food accommodation and legal costs for: 1500 New Zealand idiots?
  
  This is what I call a sub standard arrangement, you are entitled to your opinion.
  
  But that is coming from someone who spells
  Australian “austliran” probably would not know where it is and would like many Kiwis only go there if the welfare arrangements were better.
  
  The Truth of the matter is you, your government and your country are a laughing stock.
  
  A Pathetic joke.
  
  Any government or minister in it who can’t deal the above issues promptly and professionally is not fit to serve NZ as a Country and the NZ People and should resign immediately.
  
  I mean all 3 of them.
  
  I have no doubt as you spell Australian
  austliran you voted for them and they have your
  full and unwavering support.
  
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  May 5, 2019 1:20pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    There’s no such language as Australian BrownSnake. Australians, by and large, speak English, albeit with a different accent to us!
    
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    May 5, 2019 1:26pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Avo…Chicken Parmy… Eski…..
      
      Are you sure?
      
      I often listen to my sister and realise after a few minutes I haven’t got a clue what she has just said.
      
      7 1
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      May 5, 2019 1:36pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      Try “Let Stalk Strine” by Afferbeck Lauder. Was a bit of a hit in the 60’s and still good for a chuckle.
      
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      May 5, 2019 1:52pm
    - BrownSnake
      
      Tony can I let you in on a Secret?
      
      about how the internet works?
      could you pass this
      onto the NZ Security Authorities police
      and Government esp the ones
      traveling expensively to France and Back to NZ.
      
      On Internet issues why not visit every country
      connected to the web?
      
      When you want to talk Social media you do not need to travel on a plane (it kind of works that
      way ok do you understand).
      
      If you need to change something on Social Media
      You talk to a software engineer?
      
      Can I also let you know another Secret
      that would be plain to you if you had
      stayed informed over the last 8 years of the Syrian
      Crisis.
      
      NZ and AUS (I S I S ) speak on line sometimes they Do not call themselves ISIS online (they make up other words that mean the same thing in a language other than English)
      on Social Media in Fact (isn’t that amazing?)
      Australian Terrorists do not usually speak Australian or English ?
      
      Wow could you pass that onto
      Jordan Carter of … Internet NZ?
      
      Please say it slowly with your sheep influenced accent so he understands and grasp that concept.
      
      Why they do this ? Do you need that explained?
      
      There is actually more than one platform they use
      other than Face book?
      
      As you can’t speak their language, I will explain.
      
      They use lots of images that are rendered
      to a professional level? which means to anyone
      with a brain they have off shore support and funding? and are not acting alone?
      
      I will describe One Image.
      
      Related to the individual who represented and lead a group Sentenced to 7 years this week in Aus.
      
      Because people who are semi literate
      are easily influence by Pictures.
      
      A U S – I S I S had an I S I S Flag image on U tube
      Strange that –
      no pictures of Skippy the Bush Kangaroo?
      No Aus English either?
      
      Also in front of the I S I S Flag was the ole
      Semi Automatic A K – 4 7 ….computer rendered of course
      for legal reasons
      on a Table?
      
      That Image
      
      Was taken down conveniently after the
      LINDT Siege that as we all know was a lone
      wolf incident done by someone with mental
      illness despite having….
      
      14000 face book likes?
      
      u tube have and do censor
      
      and Face Book has in the past?
      
      I have a question for you and the NZ internet
      experts?
      
      Man Haron Honis
      
      are you going to ask FaceBook to hand over what
      they have got on him?
      
      So Australia can find who of the 14000 Facebook likes may have given this tragic individual
      (with mental illness) who
      acted alone mostly – the illegal
      Semi Automatic Weapon NZ has now banned?
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_Haron_Monis
      Before it was taken down, on 15 December 2014, Monis’s Facebook account had 14,000 “likes”.[82]
      
      The Image I describe was taken down by
      OZ I S I S the day after the Lindt incident?
      
      Ignorance is Bliss as we say and I have to say
      the NZ approach to counter terrorism matches
      its approach to Crime prevention in AUS.
      
      Poorly thought out, Poorly implemented
      (possibly well meaning) yet Clueless, ineffective
      and just plain Stupid.
      
      Pretty much like the people who vote for them
      and accept their pitiful performance as either
      leadership or good governance.
      
      They like many are a sick and pathetic joke.
      
      I can assure you one one thing the people who organise these events do not care about NZ law changes – they have about an 8-10 year head start on you.
      
      They know how to use the Net and Social Media
      and will continue to do so – under your noses.
      
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      May 5, 2019 3:02pm
      - Rich Prick
        
        Jeepers. Do you have a lot of cats?
        
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        May 5, 2019 5:40pm
Kevin Herlihy

President Trump has been busy this week tweeting his anger at social media platforms Facebook and Instagram for banning far right commentators from their platforms.
The list of banned commentators include Lauren Southern, Milo Yiannopoulous, Laura Loomer, Paul Nehlen, Loius Farrakhan and Infowars host Alex Jones.
President Trump has criticised Facebook for banning conservatives and of bias on their platforms and said that he was ” monitoring and watching closely”.
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May 5, 2019 12:36pm
- Wired-one
  
  MSM, education, public sector, the left have taken over them all, of course social media was going to be next. Most of it comes out of silicon valley and the left wing cesspit that is California in general. Ben Shapiro, Mark Dice and Candice Owen’s will be next, mark my words.
  
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  May 5, 2019 11:58pm
Happychappy

I have a funny feeling you might be one of the Messiahs disciples alien.
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May 5, 2019 12:44pm
Monique Watson

Rockets are whipping golden State!
1 1
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May 5, 2019 2:08pm
The King

Facebook STILL allowing anti-Christian extremists to peddle hate despite saying they are fighting hate.

“They say hate preachers like the Pakistani cleric Khadim Hussain Rizvi – spiritual leader of the extremist group Tehreek-e-Labbaik – spreads anti-Christian rhetoric to thousands of followers on the network.”

Where’s Adern and Macron on this?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-6989757/How-Facebook-allowing-anti-Christian-extremists-peddle-hate-despite-crackdown.html
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May 5, 2019 2:27pm
- BrownSnake
  
  The Only thing I regret about the French Visit
  is she did not take.
  
  Winston Peters to France to ask them to
  Change their flag like he did Australia?
  
  I mean it has the …….. Same Colours as
  The Kiwi Flag you all so Care about
  You wanted to take down.
  
  And why did she not take
  
  Justice Minister Andrew Little with her
  
  Maybe France can take the 1500 kiwis
  Aus has deported feed them imprison them
  and let them clog up their justice systems.
  
  Only the Well informed Courageous NZ
  Government would be taking analog trips to France preaching to the
  World about Social Media.
  
  The Same week Aus puts an ISIS Social Media
  specialist in the slammer for 7 years
  
  JESUS Christ they are so
  
  We’ll informed
  So on the Ball
  So up with the play.
  
  I am so impressed.
  
  https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/state/nsw/2019/04/29/lindt-cafe-sniper-sue/
  
  The Beauty of Law they do not realise is it applies to them also.
  
  So Sue them if you have an issue.
  
  Failing to ask for those to be censored
  is discrimination and hate speech is it not?
  By their own definitions.
  
  They tweet anything against their own
  censorship laws
  
  Sue them drag them through their own useless
  courts and let them scream Justice all they like.
  
  Do it.
  
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  May 5, 2019 5:22pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Now I have been patient along with everyone else but.
    
    ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    
    Now fucking use them and paraphrase or you will be downticked before your point is made.
    
    Stop typing like ardern thinks…..
    
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    May 5, 2019 7:56pm
- Tall Man
  
  Seriously King, wherever….may they stay there for ever……
  
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  May 5, 2019 7:58pm
Happychappy

Wow https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/headlines.cfm?c_id=280?ref=nzhps-headlines/
National leak options on Cannabis referendum.
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May 5, 2019 2:57pm
- nasska
  
  National are making a huge mistake by promising to die in the ditch over marijuana reform. The conservative Godstalkers they are trying to attract from the comatose (New) Conservative Party aren’t going anywhere. They make a lot of noise but they’ll fall in behind the Catholic dominated Nats. Certainly there’s little risk of them crossing to Labour or the Greens.
  
  Instead National are doing a perfect job of alienating the centrist voters who decide elections.
  
  Perhaps governing is all too hard & they’ve decided to take another three years break.
  
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  May 5, 2019 4:14pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    When people are so enamored to vote to ruin NZ who’s going to stop them?
    
    7 2
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    May 5, 2019 5:36pm
- Pete George
  
  National are trying to shit on cannabis law reform.
  
  If NZ First play spoilers again, and Labour wimp out yet again, then the Greens will again be sidelined – but may gain sufficient support from the other three gutless parties to survive in next year’s election.
  
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  May 5, 2019 6:36pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    No Pete, National has questioned Jacinda Ardern for months about the referendum, and she has obfuscated. So someone has leaked a Cabinet paper to National, which shows that none of the options Cabinet will consider will be subject to a binding referendum.
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/112477040/national-party-says-leaked-document-shows-cannabis-referendum-wont-be-binding?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
    
    Maybe it has something to do with the Greens using medicinal cannabis (which I support) as a Trojan horse to decriminalisation of recreational use (which I have concerns over). Maybe Winston Peters has put his foot down. Or maybe the Greens are trying to undermine NZF and Labour by leaking to National.
    
    Whichever, it’s an interesting new dynamic.
    
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    May 5, 2019 7:06pm
    - nasska
      
      Tony
      
      My understanding is that you are well up the National totem pole, at least on a regional basis. As such you may be good enough to answer a couple of queries:
      
      1) Do National ever go outdoors & listen to people who vote? Let’s try to be charitable & pretend that 10% of Kiwis are hard right, socially conservative religious nuts. Does anyone ever bother to think where the balance of the votes come from?
      
      2) Part of National’s founding principles mention “individual freedom & choice” along with “personal responsibility”. Do you think it possible that some one could ever so gently mention these to the Catholic control freaks who want my vote alongside the right to micromanage my life?
      
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      May 5, 2019 7:26pm
    - Tall Man
      
      “medicinal cannabis”… Really. Miracle drug?
      
      Are you nuts? We already have opioid drugs and they are less effective than cannabis? You think?
      
      You are buying into the bullshit that cannabis is a “miracle drug”. It is not and “medicinal use” is being used as a smoke screen.
      
      No I personally don’t give a fuck if you want your kids adding to the mental health stats which unfettered cannabis use will have an impact on and if you are naive enough to think that usage will not increase then I really do have a bridge to sell you.
      
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      May 5, 2019 7:51pm
  - Happychappy
    
    Stop being a cry baby pete I didn’t hear you lash the other Parties when the Greens sold their sole to Winston over the Waka Jumping Law. Hypocrite
    
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    May 5, 2019 7:08pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Greens had a soul….? who would have thunk…
      
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      May 5, 2019 7:52pm
    - Pete George
      
      You obviously don’t hear most of what I say so don’t jump to criticise uninformed.
      
      Greens have not done well generally with their first stint in Government, but you’re diverting.
      
      On giving voters a choice as promised on cannabis law reform so far Labour and National have been abysmal.
      
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      May 5, 2019 8:01pm
      - nasska
        
        It’s pretty much a waste of time commenting since moderators visits during evenings are spaced at six hour intervals but you’re right Pete.
        
        Nor do I trust Labour or National not to covertly collude to make reform impossible. Both parties are wedded to control & giving freedom to the populace is anathematic to their intentions.
        
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        May 5, 2019 8:16pm
  - MrTips
    
    You’re putting too much prune on your all bran Pete. But I don’t see why this progressive loony NZ govt don’t go for the trifecta on euthanasia, dope and Pike River by letting Winston be first into the mine whilst toking one up on his way to the drift?
    
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    May 5, 2019 7:33pm
RW Capitalist

Best statement on freedom of speech?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjoSQ-lCA58
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May 5, 2019 3:14pm
Swifty

Gee, I wonder if this could ever happen here? Or, if we here in NZ are different, why and how are we different?

I bet most Philidelphians think themselves open, welcoming, tolerant and progressive too.

‘We will chop off their heads….’

”Disturbing footage has emerged from an Islamic Center in Philadelphia, showing children reportedly lip-syncing to songs and reading poems saying they would sacrifice themselves and kill for Allah.

The Muslim American Society Islamic Center in Philadelphia (MAS Philly) uploaded videos on April 22 to its Facebook page. The videos show children singing lyrics that appear to call on the next generation of Palestinian youth to embrace terrorism and glorify suicide bombers, according to the Investigative Project on Terrorism (IPT).”

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=9oq8R_1557018181
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May 5, 2019 4:05pm
- nasska
  
  …..”Give me the child for the first seven years and I will give you the man.”…..
  
  Jesuit maxim widely attributed to Ignatius Loyola but no less pertinent in this case. Teach a kid to hate at seven & you’ll get another seventy years of the same as a bonus.
  
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  May 5, 2019 5:05pm
- Tall Man
  
  And yet they migrated to America and not Yemen or Bangladesh… Go figure. Maybe they’ll be thinking about us with our hijab assistant for “what’s in it for wynston”.
  
  Awesome, diversity at it’s best.
  
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  May 5, 2019 7:39pm
Happychappy

nasska everyone to their own choice but I have seen what alcohol does and then also seen what it has done to mates and their families, in my opinion they are both evil and we can’t afford our health budget now legalization will make it worse. If it does go with medical cannabis I dont mide if it helps to give them a longer life, and a referendum hopefully is the only way to find out as long g as its binding.
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May 5, 2019 5:34pm
- Tall Man
  
  I have no dog in the fight at this stage but your faith in a referendum is misplaced. Remember, 7% voted for “what’s in it for wynston”, another 7% for greens and 37% for labour so already you’ve got a majority of idiots.
  
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  May 5, 2019 7:33pm
greybeard

Blues and Warriors: business as usual.
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May 5, 2019 5:45pm
- Tall Man
  
  Come on be fair… the world needs consistency…..
  
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  May 5, 2019 7:30pm
- Wired-one
  
  I heard it from a very astute league fan today, that next year will be the Warriors year…
  
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  May 5, 2019 11:45pm
Morrissey

More bad news.
For National.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/112458922/nationals-sinking-feeling-after-jacinda-ardern-springs-engagement-news
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May 5, 2019 5:46pm
- Tall Man
  
  Only for the feeble minded……. yep, just like you.
  
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  May 5, 2019 7:29pm
- MrTips
  
  More like bad news for Clarke!
  
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  May 5, 2019 7:36pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  I thought National were already buggered? Does that mean the msm were lying all the other times? Labour and their lackeys seem paranoid.
  
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  May 5, 2019 7:47pm
- rangitoto
  
  Don’t forget your two ticks blue next year. MAGA = Make Ardern Go Away.
  
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  May 5, 2019 8:14pm
Ross12

Time for a good laugh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=fwvzDYjVLvw
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May 5, 2019 6:20pm
Wired-one

A few comments above about the cannabis referendum, but not much about the cabinet leak?, is there disunity and disharmony in the Labour caucus?. I wait with baited breath for Tova’s explosive story tomorrow night at 6pm…Surely a leak of this magnitude deserves the same coverage Jamie Lee Ross recieved for his bullshit nonsense right?…And we all know how principled and impartial Tova is…
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May 5, 2019 11:52pm
BrownSnake

The NZ 3 pronged plan to Tackle Global Terrorism

Prong 1
1 Jacinda to Visit Country and Talk Facebook

Even though with Net based issues a Visit
is not required?

Starting with France
Even though that may not be where their head office is and their software engineers may work elsewhere? How the internet works.

No Tech company would locate Servers in France
anyway unless they had no other choice
Let’s face it they can’t even protect Churches
from spontaneous combustion.

That there are platforms other than Face book
is irrelevant the reality of how terrorists actually
use Social Media is …. irrelevant

NZ is right it is always right it is a shining light
a beacon to free nations the globe over.

Exactly why its nearest neighbour can’t wait to deport 1500

Prong Two
2. Flags and Methane

Winston Peters is to talk to every country about
changing their flag and making it less like NZ’s

In the case of France no red white and blue
too similar.

He is also to talk ridiculous crap like he did to Australia.

Well done Winston you are amazing

Prong 3 Justice for All
Andrew little is to mumble “Justice Stuff”

Then he is to mumble about the 1500 kiwis
deported from Australia all they want
is the same deal as the host country like the
parasites they are.

If he can find them a Home where the host
country can give them good prisons great

Saudi Arabia being the best option in this regard.

Optional take the Mongrel mob on the do a Haka Tour?

After this 3 pronged delegation has visited every country in the world connected to internet and they have listened carefully and implemented
the

3 pronged Kiwi plan

The World will live in peace and Harmony

We all Sing Peace Train and Wait

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLG91tOLPdQ

Now I’ve been happy lately
Thinking about the good things to come
And I believe it could be
Something good has begun
Oh, I’ve been smiling lately
Dreaming about the world as one
And I believe it could be
Someday it’s going to come
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May 5, 2019 11:59pm
Hugh Pavletich

… United States …

US interest rates: Calling for a rate cut now is bonkers – CNN

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/03/economy/us-interest-rates-cut/index.html
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May 6, 2019 2:35am
Lee C

Thanks for the link from Stuff Morrissey.

It was very thoughtful of you to share an objective, well-researched piece of investigative journalism to really get the intellect churning.

Oh, wait….
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May 6, 2019 6:53am

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