General Debate 21 June 2019

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mikenmildagain

Kiwibloggers will want to contribute to this:
https://www.gofundme.com/israel-folau-legal-action-fund
Rugby star needs help from fellow victims of religious bigotry to sue former employer. Is unable to pay for own lawyer as has generously given all his own money to his church.
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June 21, 2019 8:00am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  If someone has weird religious beliefs do you think their employer should be able to sack them for talking about those beliefs outside work?
  
  I don’t really have a dog in this fight because I don’t think employees should be able to sue employers for anything except not getting paid for work done. But if we’re going to have laws against religious discrimination in employment, it seems as though they should apply here.
  
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  June 21, 2019 8:57am
  - SGA
    
    If someone has weird religious beliefs do you think their employer should be able to sack them for talking about those beliefs outside work?
    
    As a general principle I agree with you. From what I can tell, the fly in the ointment here is the wording and terms of whatever contracts he chose to sign in order to have this job.
    
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    June 21, 2019 9:18am
- Alien
  
  Nope, don’t want to contribute to it, and if he wants to take legal action he can pay for it himself.
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:17am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Yeah, I found it pretty weird, too. But I thought I should post it here as a favour to superstitious Kiwibloggers who seem to feel this is an important fight for religious freedom.
    
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    June 21, 2019 9:32am
    - Inandout
      
      m&m, so you are happy with manufacturers paying a halal levy, money which goes to some foreign entity based on superstition?
      
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      June 21, 2019 10:24am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I’m not bigoted in my condemnation of forcing any superstition on others.
        You would have to tell me more about the ‘halal levy’. If trading with some markets requires accommodation of cultural or religious requirements, that’s a matter for the business concerned to decide.
        Just as in Israel Folau’s case, it is a matter for his employers to regulate speech that they believe will bring them into disrepute. They took care to do this in an employment contract.
        
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        June 21, 2019 11:10am
      - Alien
        
        Talk about reading between the lines and making stuff up
        
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        June 21, 2019 11:15am
    - Scott
      
      Thanks so much Mikey. You are such a public spirited kind of fellow 🙂
      I have now given and I urge those who are concerned about religious freedom and freedom of speech to do the same.
      
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      June 21, 2019 11:18am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        A fool and his tithe, etc, etc.
        
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        June 21, 2019 1:07pm
- barnacle bill
  
  Folau needs to get on the Hot Line to Jesus Christ Super Star and ask him to contribute.
  
  Other than that, I cant see to many answering his call.
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:39am
  - mandk
    
    Looks like he has raised $140,000 in one day.
    
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    June 21, 2019 11:48am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Lots of Scotts in the world.
      I guess most of those donors are far richer than Folau, so can afford to help the poor guy out.
      
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      June 21, 2019 1:08pm
    - mandk
      
      In a little over two hours since I posted that, the total has increased by $50k.
      
      I think he will make his target.
      
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      June 21, 2019 2:01pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    As at 1:05 NZT more than 2000 people have contributed $AU188,000.
    
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    June 21, 2019 1:06pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  If it goes to trial going to be interesting. An employment contract versus the Bill of Rights and the common law of freedom of thought and speech.
  
  Can an employment contract trump human rights.
  
  Remember OZ like NZ is a signatory to various international laws and conventions around human rights.
  
  The decision could have wide spread ramifications.
  
  Like if the Court finds against Falou then I as an employer can dismiss an employee if their opinions differ from mine and they voice them in public I can claim they are bringing my business into disrepute.
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:43am
  - fernglas
    
    With the right to freedom of expression goes the right to contractually agree to limit one’s use of it. This is nothing to do with freedom of expression, it’s about breach of contract
    
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    June 21, 2019 7:28pm
- Right of way is Way of Right
  
  As this has all arisen out of his religious beliefs, why doesn’t his wonderful church fund his legal costs?
  
  Asking for a friend….
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:50am
- Scott
  
  Thanks for letting me know Mikey. I’d be quite happy to donate. Because this is not just about one person. It’s about freedom of religion and it’s about freedom of speech.
  
  Apparently in Australia it is illegal to discriminate against someone on the basis of their religion.
  Mr Folau is clearly being discriminated against on the basis of his paraphrase of biblical beliefs.
  
  Many of us should be concerned. Can your employer fire you because of what you say on your own time on social media? If your religious, or any other, beliefs are out of line with your employer’s ideas can you be shown the door?
  
  Freedom of religion and freedom of speech are important ideas that are critical to a democracy. They have been trampled on in the case of Israel Folau.
  
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  June 21, 2019 10:03am
  - SGA
    
    It’s about freedom of religion and it’s about freedom of speech.
    
    It’s more about freedom of speech, I think.
    
    Imagine if you and I are offered jobs by the Australian Rugby Union. We choose to sign contracts that have some conditions about making controversial comments, bringing negative publicity on the organisation, whatever the hell it says.
    Should I be bound by that contract while you are not, just because you are or become a Christian? That doesn’t seem right to me. From my perspective, either we both have the right to speak out, or neither of us does. The place to deal with it is before you sign the contract.
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:16am
    - Scott
      
      SGA – freedom of religion affects everyone. So the guy who posts on the Internet under the name “militant atheist” has freedom of religion. Nasska who posts on this blog has freedom of religion every day to tell us how horrible New Zealand used to be because it was so horribly Christian and for some undetermined reason he finds Christianity horrible.
      
      But in the case of Israel Folau he has been singled out because of his Christian beliefs which he wrote about on social media. His employer, taking advice no doubt from major sponsor Qantas and its homosexual CEO, took umbrage and fired him.
      
      But let’s take the situation if the shoe was on the other foot. If an atheist rugby player wrote something disparaging Jesus and the major sponsor Qantas had a Christian CEO, I am sure we would agree that it wouldn’t be right for that rugby player to be fired?
      
      So freedom of religion and freedom of speech are important for all of us.
      
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      June 21, 2019 10:55am
      - SGA
        
        But in the case of Israel Folau he has been singled out because of his Christian beliefs which he wrote about on social media.
        
        So other people on the same contract have said similar things with no consequence? Who exactly?
        
        If an atheist rugby player wrote something disparaging Jesus and the major sponsor Qantas had a Christian CEO, I am sure we would agree that it wouldn’t be right for that rugby player to be fired?
        
        Actually, if it violated his contract, well… yes, the ARU would be within their rights to do so.
        
        But you ducked my question. Should you be able to break your contract because you are a Christian, and I not be?
        
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        June 21, 2019 1:53pm
  - MCos
    
    As everyone knows he wouldn’t have been in this position if he’d been upfront with his employers before they’d offered him the job.
    That is to say he wouldn’t have been offered the job.
    Nothing to do with freedom of speech.
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:30am
    - SGA
      
      Unless the contract itself could be shown to breach some basic human right to free speech, I guess? But that would apply to everyone, I think, not just Christians.
      
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      June 21, 2019 10:43am
    - Scott
      
      MCos – can’t agree with you at all. When Israel Folau first represented Australia should he have told his employer that “hey I am a Christian, I will probably post some biblical things, is that okay?” And if his employers said, “no Israel you cannot post anything from the Bible and if you do it will be a breach of contract!”
      
      Who could be happy with that scenario?
      
      So your analysis, is way off.
      
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      June 21, 2019 10:50am
      - SGA
        
        No, Scott – he could have posted lots of things from the bible without breaking his contract. For all I know, he has. No-one has told him he can’t post “anything” from the bible. That’s a dishonest exaggeration.
        He was told to back off the anti-homosexual comments the first time because it went to areas that breached his contract, he choose to continue. The same would have applied to any player making those comments about homosexuals.
        
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        June 21, 2019 2:42pm
    - Nigel Kearney
      
      Employers aren’t allowed to discriminate against people based on their religious beliefs. Doesn’t matter whether it is hiring or sacking. Also doesn’t matter whether the beliefs are offensive to many people. Lots of religions include beliefs I consider dangerous and wrong.
      
      Say I hire an IT consultant who is a Jehovah’s Witness and doesn’t believe in vaccination or blood transfusions and writes all about it on his blog. If I sack him for that the Employment Court will rule in his favour. If I refuse to hire him in the first place because I think his religious views are nutty, the Employment Court will rule in his favour.
      
      This is very well established law. It wouldn’t matter if my customers complained about his views. It might not even matter if my customers refused to work with him at all.
      
      What is really happening here is that normal law and principle are being ignored because Folau happened to target a group that is politically well connected and treated by media commentators as deserving of extra special protection.
      
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      June 21, 2019 11:34am
      - MCos
        
        Let’s not be disingenuous.
        Sporting bodies can offer elite contracts to whomsoever they like to play the game.
        Different story for admin staff.
        
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        June 21, 2019 12:16pm
    - MickMac
      
      MCos
      He was very upfront about his Christian faith as are many PI people…
      
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      June 21, 2019 12:02pm
- andrew davies
  
  Imagine a different scenario. Instead of going all outraged and indignant about Folaus tweet, the ARU could have put out a statement like this:
  
  “There goes Israel standing up for what he believes again. As we are an inclusive organisation we celebrate and welcome diversity. Not only is Israel a great player he adds to the diversity of the Wallabies. Whether or not our members agree with him we support his freedom to articulate his beliefs. The ARU will not make any further comment”.
  
  Granted this approach would require a considerable level of maturity, something that is in short supply in our outrage culture. However it would have quickly died down, there would be no expensive litigation and the Wallabies would have a much better chance of winning the world cup.
  
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  June 21, 2019 10:40am
  - Scott
    
    Unfortunately Andrew there is a major industry of outrage and feeling offended. This is something that comes from the left-wing politics where offence has been weaponised. The homosexual CEO of Qantas has been offended and so all Australian rugby union representatives must fall into line on the subject of homosexuality.
    
    That appears to be the stance that the Australian rugby union is taking. No other opinions will be tolerated because that will upset one of our major sponsors.
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:58am
    - krazykiwi
      
      I’m guessing that Joyce decided that Article 177 of the UAE Penal Code was of no consequence in that face of his desire to do deal with Emirates.
      
      Look the other way. Pretend there’s no problem. It’s business, not personal.
      
      Then he went weapons-grade bully towards a single rugby player who had the temerity to quote the Bible.
      
      Joyce is the very worst of hypocrites, and I’ve avoided flying Qantas since he paraded his petulant intolerance.
      
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      June 21, 2019 3:30pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Or Folau could have demonstrated maturity by not using his sporting fame to spread his nutty religious beliefs, especially the bits he was bound to know would cause widespread offence.
    
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    June 21, 2019 11:12am
    - Nigel Kearney
      
      What use is religious freedom if it doesn’t apply as soon as you say something nutty?
      
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      June 21, 2019 11:35am
    - Scott
      
      Mikey – Folau has done nothing wrong. His religious beliefs are foundational throughout Western civilisation. Heaven and hell can be found throughout Western thought and Western art.
      
      That you find them nutty is your opinion. Folau should be free to post his sincerely held religious beliefs on his Instagram account. Anyone who didn’t like his views is free to block him on social media at any time.
      
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      June 21, 2019 12:09pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Folau is free to express his views. He chose to accept an employment contract though. He was free to seek a job with anyone else who didn’t have rules about bringing the employer into disrepute.
        Freedom cuts both ways. Zealots in the states are insisting that religious freedom allows businesses to discriminate against their employees, for example, or to refuse to serve some customers.
        
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        June 21, 2019 1:15pm
- slightlyrighty
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opinion/113669568/israel-folau-has-got-a-cheek-asking-for-public-money-to-fund-his-fight
  
  An opinion piece by Duncan Johnston, except Israel Folau is not asking for public money, but publicly asking for private donations. Public money is something quite different. However, a misleading headline from the MSM is quite common these days.
  
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  June 21, 2019 1:09pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Rugby star needs help from fellow victims of religious bigotry to sue former employer.
  
  Um, no. He’s claiming wrongful dismissal. You’re the one calling it religious bigotry.
  
  Is unable to pay for own lawyer as has generously given all his own money to his church.
  
  You seem to have missed the bit about him already spending $AU100,000 of his own money on lawyers, tribunal costs etc.
  
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  June 21, 2019 1:12pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  As at 2.30pm (or 12.30pm Sydney time), 2517 people have contributed a total of $238,017. That’s an average donation per person of around $95.00. Pretty impressive, I would say.
  
  And in the time it has taken me to type the first paragraph, another 30 donations have come in…
  
  UPDATE: 4.30pm, and Folau now has $296,237 from 3201 donors. He’s clearly got support.
  
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  June 21, 2019 2:35pm
mikenmildagain

Happy World Hydrography Day!
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June 21, 2019 8:01am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  When will you find the time for the “_____ Day” of your own country?
  
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  June 21, 2019 8:56am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I think you will find that hydrography is very important for a large and remote archipelago.
    This year, it is doubly important to us as we commemorate Tuia Encounters 250 – the 250th anniversary of the first visit to New Zealand of possibly the greateast ever hydrographers.
    But we also have plenty of other New Zealand special days or anniversaries to celebrate, too.
    This time of the year here, it is all about Matariki. But today you might also wish to recall the 155th anniversary of the Battle of Te Ranga, the 67th birthday of Jeremy Coney, or the 55th anniversary of the Beatles visting.
    
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    June 21, 2019 9:29am
- SGA
  
  Drip
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:19am
- rangitoto
  
  That’s just wet.
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:56am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    But my martini is dry.
    
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    June 21, 2019 11:12am
Maggie Pie

EXPECT DELAYS

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8DCWkaXYAAinWs?format=jpg&name=small
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June 21, 2019 8:03am
rangitoto

Good to see that little rat Gove is out.
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June 21, 2019 8:03am
- Thought Criminal
  
  The arrogance of the man. Imagine if Gove did become Tory leader, does he really think people would vote for him?
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:46am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    The last thing any Tory leader wants is a general election.
    
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    June 21, 2019 11:13am
    - oob
      
      Not necessarily true chap.
      
      I listened to JRM overnight make the argument the choice is between Brexit on one hand and a Marxist in Number 10. The Conservatives might go to the country and hammer home this argument, with a view to winning a clear majority in the Commons.
      
      The downside (from their perspective) is Farage standing candidates forcing a coalition with his Brexit party.
      
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      June 21, 2019 12:02pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Tory inbred screeching about a ‘Marxist’ or [insert scare quote of choice] is not going to magically produce a Conservative landslide.
        It’s a safe bet that the highest personal priority for the new Conservative leader will be to remain in office for as long as possible. So no election soon.
        
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        June 21, 2019 1:19pm
      - oob
        
        Tory inbred screeching about a ‘Marxist’
        
        You’re seriously underestimating how much Corbyn scares the UK electorate. And I’ll add that ‘Marxist’ isn’t at all pejorative, it’s an accurate description.*
        
        Despite how unpopular the Conservatives are after the debacle of the Brexit bungle, in a “least bad” choice they’ll win out over Corbyn. And then there’s the Diane Abbott aspect to factor in: Abacus Abbott as Home Secretary isn’t just unpalatable it’s actually unimaginable to the vast majority of the population.
        
        But our discussion so far Milky is all fairly myopic. The much more interesting bigger picture is we’re witnessing the death throes of the two party Establishment. The reality is that the UK has to move away from FPP to proportional representation in order to regain the trust of the electorate.
        
        (*) ‘Trotskyite’ would be even more accurate.
        
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        June 21, 2019 2:33pm
      - Batman
        
        And corbyn’s deputy who this week proclaimed that under a Labour government, the UK would be a staunch ally of of Cuba.
        
        So that’s Venezuela, Russia, China, and the UK… Cool.
        
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        June 21, 2019 3:58pm
      - oob
        
        .
        
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        June 21, 2019 4:09pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        oob
        I don’t actually disagree with you. Labour and the Conservatives are tearing themselves apart. They are as morally and intellectually bankrupt as any other two-party system in the world. See: National/Labour, Republicans/Democrats, Coalition/Labor, etc, etc.
        The question is how liberal democracies will evolve (or devolve) from here.
        
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        June 21, 2019 4:46pm
Micky

Christopher Luxon is being described as an oligarch. He could potentially lose National a lot of center voters.

Peter Williams extract –

it was intriguing to read the comments on Stuff last night underneath the article about his resignation. A few Air New Zealand workers or ex-workers remarked about him never being seen around the workers, about always wanting to cut costs which invariably had an impact on staff morale, especially in recent times. The theme seemed to be that he was always mixing it with those of his type, and not so much getting down and dirty with his staff.
That’s a worrying thought.
John Key’s greatest skill was his complete relatability to all types, even if you didn’t like his politics. It’s Jacinda’s greatest skill too, and the only thing that keeps a woefully underperforming government on top in the polls.
Does Luxon have that? Frankly, it’s yet to be tested.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/06/peter-williams-is-christopher-luxon-really-prime-minister-material.html
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June 21, 2019 8:04am
- calendar girl
  
  Has this guy been offered leadership of the National Party? Or even announced yet an intention to throw his hat into the political ring?
  
  Until / unless we (the voting public) can observe the standard of political performance offered by Luxon, we’re in no position to be reaching conclusions about his capabilities. Once again we’re allowing the mischievous and self-serving MSM to set the country’s political agenda with a bunch of ill-informed speculation.
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:11am
  - Prince
    
    Exactly.
    The mere hint of a successful businessman standing as an MP for National has media of all sorts piling in to denounce the chap.
    But should a fourth form lassie announce a desire to stand in Neverland to save the world, expect a deluge of starry eyed stories about the brave wee kiddie.
    
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    June 21, 2019 9:45am
    - Tall Man
      
      Autistic fourth form lassie I’ll have you know.
      
      There are times when I think the whole country is being run by a bunch of autistic lassies.
      
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      June 21, 2019 10:15am
    - kowtow
      
      Is running a tax payer owned near monopoly the definition of “successful businessman”
      
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      June 21, 2019 11:07am
  - Micky
    
    He has announced a substantial degree of intention.
    
    My money would be on him gunning for the leadership position before the next election.
    
    If he thinks that is off the cards – I doubt he will enter politics. I can’t see him wanting to wait out 4.5 years on 180k when he has been on 4m for the last 7.
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:32am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Like Key he doesn’t need the money anymore, he will be earning more than a million a year from investments. This is him pursuing his interests.
      
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      June 21, 2019 10:44am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Correct. Key came into Parliament in 2002. By 2005, he was National’s Finance spokesman, getting under Cullen’s skin on a daily basis. In 2006, he became Leader of the Opposition, and the rest is history.
        
        Luxon will bring significant commercial acumen to Parliament. You don’t get to lead a company such as Unilever without a very strong business background.
        
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        June 21, 2019 2:42pm
    - MCos
      
      If he thinks he can waltz into parliament and take the helm of the National Party within a year he’s either supremely arrogant or the Nats are acting totally out of character.
      Having said that the current leader is crying out to be replaced.
      
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      June 21, 2019 12:56pm
- peterwn
  
  Peter Williams is over-blowing the situation by implying Chris Luxon could cost the party a lot of ‘centre’ votes by standing for Parliament. He would have no higher electoral profile than any other wannabe or newbie MP’s.
  Someone on Whaleoil suggested that the pre-selection process could be used to let him ‘parachute’ into a safe seat (eg Pakuranga) but it is doubtful local party members would stand for this. This is especially as they are the ones to do door-knocking, phoning, leaflet delivering, hoardings, scrutineering etc. A candidate would be at a great disadvantage trying to do an election with disenchanted and surly helpers.
  He would need to get nomination on his merits or alternatively hope the party gives him an unassailable list position.
  Agreed he might be a problem a few years down the track if elected. However he still has to serve his political apprenticeship and gain the respect of caucus and leader as John Key did.
  If he behaves like Peter Williams thinks he might, he would find his political tenure a short one, as happened to Mark Blumsky, Bob the Builder, Katrina Shanks and others.
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:34am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Peter, it is unlikely that it will be Pakuranga, as that is the seat of first term MP Simion Brown (unless he has blotted his copy book). The comment smacks more is more Whaleoil being mischievous and shielding JLR who is the MP next door in Botany and is more likely to face Luxon as the National candidate.
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:14am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Indeed. WO, Lusk and JLR are as thick of thieves, but realistically, Ross hasn’t got a snowball’s chance in hell of retaining Botany as an Independent.
      
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      June 21, 2019 2:44pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Lusk is the guy behind Mark Mitchell, right?
        
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        June 21, 2019 4:47pm
- Tall Man
  
  Don’t know, don’t care, just another bunch of bullshit being driven by the media.
  
  Look to the “rumours” that Sir John Key is coming back.
  
  The media are nothing more than puppets for ardern and the rest of the liars in the labour party.
  
  It is all about distraction to take the heat of the liar in chief and you can judge for yourselves if that is ardern or “what’s in it for wynston”.
  
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  June 21, 2019 10:13am
  - Inandout
    
    Key won’t come back while the media is ready to dig up all the rumours why he left in the first place. The left are outrageously hypocritical.
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:27am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I’d say there’s a far greater chance of Helen Clark coming back than there is of Key ever reentering public life.
    
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    June 21, 2019 2:45pm
    - Tall Man
      
      “Helen Clark coming back”…
      
      Really? Did you not know she has an office in the Beehive and is a constant presence with ardern both here and o/seas.
      
      simpson, or h2 to her friends, is ensconced in the Beehive providing daily advice to ardern.
      
      The labour side coalition is completely under the sway of both clark and cullen with simpson running the day to day activity.
      
      clark has also managed to wangle a coalition funded “think” tank out of ardern so she can continue to “shape” the future of this country…. unfortunately.
      
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      June 21, 2019 5:19pm
- Ruahine
  
  You cannot be serious.
  
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  June 21, 2019 10:45am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Just saw a full blown idiot on TV1. John Campbell gushing over Trump’s comments.
TDS? Never
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June 21, 2019 8:08am
- Tarquin North
  
  Ah yes, Saint John Campbell patron saint of the irrelevant and “extraordinary” lefty causes and shining example of what yesterday’s man really means.
  
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  June 21, 2019 8:32am
- Scott
  
  John Campbell is a committed leftist who cannot see beyond his ideological prism.
  Meanwhile in America Trump is pulling crowds of over 20K with thousands more watching outside on the big screen.
  
  The polls are showing Trump trailing Biden on a head to head. Which makes me wonder about the polls? Trump draws thousands of people who are widely enthusiastic. Biden draws hundreds of people who look like they are waiting in the dental surgery for a root canal.
  
  Could the polling be more fake news?
  
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  June 21, 2019 8:33am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    I can’t understand why so-called “leftists” draw such high salaries and why they don’t donate their earnings to the more needy and less well-off in their communities…
    
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    June 21, 2019 8:57am
    - srylands
      
      I have met several “leftists” who are wealthy urban dwellers. At social gatherings they delight in telling each other about their house renovations/ investment properties/property speculation. It is sickening.
      
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      June 21, 2019 9:40am
      - Tarquin North
        
        You have to wonder if they have ever read Animal Farm.
        
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        June 21, 2019 10:08am
      - Tall Man
        
        Call them out on it.
        
        You won’t be invited back but you will shut the fuckers up.
        
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        June 21, 2019 10:17am
      - Inandout
        
        srylands, I shall always remember a rather droll comment a workmate once said. If he won lotto he said, he would buy a lovely home in Victoria Ave, Remuera. He would then rent it to the rowdiest tenants he could find, then sit back and wait for the reaction from ‘concerned neighbours’. In these times I would opt for a house nearer the city, where the powder puff cafe crowd dwell.
        
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        June 21, 2019 10:38am
    - Komata
      
      Odakyu-sen@0857
      
      The current NZ PM us a striking example of this phenomenon. Tell the workrs to make sacrifices for ‘The cause’ and the good of the country, then (and in a manner similar to others in her party), buy a house in one of Auckland’s wealthier suburbs.
      
      In doing so, she is typical of many socialist leaders who seem to adopt a very convenient ‘Do as I say, not as I do’ attitude when put into power.
      
      Very curious to see that socialists are really capitalists at heart…
      
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      June 21, 2019 10:24am
      - Odakyu-sen
        
        Inside every “leftist” is a closet aristocrat.
        
        Very curious to see that socialists are really capitalists at heart…
        (Under socialism, it is every man for himself…)
        
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        June 21, 2019 11:06am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Silent majority vs impassioned fringes. Trump has a mountain to climb if he is to be re-elected, particularly given way global economy seems to be trending (down).
    
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    June 21, 2019 8:58am
  - Rich Prick
    
    I think the polls are taken in Portland, San Francisco and Chicago. At least they seemed to be in 2016.
    
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    June 21, 2019 9:12am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I think the pollsters have a problem with a roving decimal point, most leftists do.
    eg. The only difference between a billion dollars and a trillion dollars is 3 zeros, and seeing as zeros have no value there is no extra cost. AOC
    
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    June 21, 2019 9:21am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    If the polls don’t agree with your imagined reality, the polls are pretty sure to be wrong.
    
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    June 21, 2019 9:38am
    - Tall Man
      
      Look at the “don’t knows” and “won’t says”….
      
      That shows you where your polling is failing today.
      
      Extrapolating those numbers is a fools errand.
      
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      June 21, 2019 10:18am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Remember when the polls had Hillary a clear winner? What happened?
    
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    June 21, 2019 9:49am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      but but but, Hillary got more votes and only came second!
      
      Polling booths in pack n Save, whore-houses, tinnie houses, methdealers car boots, gang pads and pubs in will reverse any trend in constructively engaging in the voting process
      
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      June 21, 2019 10:10am
  - Batman
    
    Scott, thousands outside? Or did they all go inside to watch the not-sold-out rally?
    
    Watch from 8m35s, even if you just end up shouting “fake news!!” ?
    
    https://youtu.be/qWnf_qQwc_o
    
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    June 21, 2019 12:10pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      You watching Colbert being deceptive explains a lot.
      The Rally got hit with a thunderstorm.
      “But at around 1:30 p.m., clouds charged in, and with them a heavy breeze that left vendors trying to hold their tents to the ground. Just as the man at the gate announced that he could not let anyone else into the arena, thunder boomed. Shortly after, a voice on the loudspeaker declared that anyone not in line at that moment would not be making it into the building right away.
      Moments later, a drenching rain fell.
      The abrupt closing of the gates left supporters in ponchos debating whether to run for cover or lose their place in line. Thunderstorms were in the forecast all evening, threatening to dampen the excitement of what the Trump campaign predicted would be a gathering of thousands outside the arena.”
      
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      June 21, 2019 12:35pm
Boris Piscina

So the gun confiscation price list has been announced, along with the proposed methodology by which the Government and Police prefer the handover of firearms will take place.

You know I really do hope they’re taking the piss.

Because the alternative to that, is that they genuinely believe their proposal will be met with widespread acceptance and acquiescence; and if they genuinely believe that, then they are genuinely mentally unsound.

If this proposal is pursued, good cops will be shot in the streets, hand-in meets will be raided by gangs acting under the cover of very well coordinated diversions, politicians will be shot in their electorate offices, and the rule of law will be irrevocably diminished in New Zealand.

“Irrevocably” means that it will never come back. Ever.

One ammunition dealer has already flagged violent revolution as a possible repercussion.

I can find nothing amiss with his logic.

I would suggest that voluntary compliance will not exceed 1%.

Where in God’s name is my Party?

Goodbye New Zealand. Retirement in Canada beckons.

God help you all.
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June 21, 2019 8:15am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Maybe so, but surely Canada is not the answer.
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:02am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Yep, Panama is warmer with a better exchange rate with slightly less guns.
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:12am
  - Tall Man
    
    If Canada is the answer, it is a truly fucking stupid question.
    
    https://torontolife.com/city/u-t-professor-sparked-vicious-battle-gender-neutral-pronouns/
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:20am
- Alien
  
  perhaps you can link to an article of gun buy backs overseas where gangs have raided hand in meets and cops have been shot in the street at them.
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:20am
- SGA
  
  Time will tell, I suppose, but I have my doubts. I guess you could argue that people who are willing to shoot politicians in their electorate offices over such issues aren’t those we want to have military-style weapons?
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:24am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Boris probably thinks that those are exactly the right sort of people who need effective weapons to safeguard the liberties of ordinary Kiwis against the totalitarian state.
    
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    June 21, 2019 9:41am
  - freethinker
    
    No need for a semi auto, one bullet does the trick two to be sure.
    
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    June 21, 2019 12:35pm
- brett68
  
  Bridges is only interested in getting himself elected he’ll throw as many people as required under the bus to achieve that.
  Apart from David Seymour all Politicians suck, it’s al about their careers and salaries not what’s good for the country.
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:35am
  - Tall Man
    
    Another day… another “I don’t like Simon” post from brett.
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:22am
    - brett68
      
      I don’t like most politicians they’re all duplicitous arseholes.
      Bridges is a bit of a standout though.
      
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      June 21, 2019 11:01am
      - Tall Man
        
        You still don’t get it do you brett? How old are you because you seem to lack a bit of maturity with your comments.
        
        An election is not to select your favourite candidate, it is a choice between those offered. Currently the realistic offerings as Prime Minister after 202, assuming the current status continues are ardern with all her simpering bullshit, “what’s in it for wynston” as he still hasn’t achieved the “pinnacle” he desires for himself or Simon Bridges who obviously doesn’t ring your bell.
        
        So brett, be a big boy and either back one of the current coalition leaders or Simon. Your choice because we are a democracy 😉
        
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        June 21, 2019 5:27pm
    - MickMac
      
      Tall Man
      I actually agree with Brett’s post. Soiman’s silence has shown his character…
      
      David Seymour for all his faults has stood up for our rights.
      Soiman was mum and signed off on it.
      All of National did.
      
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      June 21, 2019 12:10pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Fair enough, we are a democracy and you get a choice.
        
        Currently that choice is to support labour with ardern and “what’s in it for wynston” ot National under Simon Bridges.
        
        A vote for Simon is a vote for a change of government. A vote for ardern is a vote for the status quo.
        
        A non vote will be the same as a vote for ardern.
        
        You get to choose, that’s what a democracy is all about.
        
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        June 21, 2019 5:32pm
  - doggone7
    
    David Seymour just quietly goes about his business of being the steadfast hypocrite. Unfortunately getting tied up in some TV dance thing stopped him getting involved in a campaign to get rid of school zoning so their key principal of choice could be achieved.
    
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    June 21, 2019 1:25pm
- MCos
  
  “If this proposal is pursued, good cops will be shot in the streets, hand-in meets will be raided by gangs acting under the cover of very well coordinated diversions, politicians will be shot in their electorate offices . . . .”
  
  Get a grip, Boris.
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:40am
  - MickMac
    
    I agree MCos
    Kiwi’s (apart from Labour voters) are thoughtful, thinking, respectful people.
    Shooting cops?
    What a load of bollocks…..
    
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    June 21, 2019 12:12pm
- Random T Person
  
  Canada? When I retire it will be to a warm 3rd world shithole with good private medical facilities.
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:41am
  - Tall Man
    
    Counts NZ out then.
    
    Piss poor health system.
    
    2 4
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    June 21, 2019 10:23am
  - MCos
    
    Texas
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:38am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Only if the Mexican build that wall to keep Borises safe.
      
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      June 21, 2019 11:16am
    - Tall Man
      
      Have had a couple of clients move there under the “Entrepreneur” scheme.
      
      I don’t know the exact detail but it was something like buying a business for over $US500,000 and employing locals.
      
      They seem happy.
      
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      June 21, 2019 5:35pm
- srylands
  
  I was thinking about the buy back. It may have been better to wait until the immediate grief of Christchurch had passed before passing these laws. In all cases we expect the Government to pass laws to reduce the most harm for least cost. I mean, look at how hard nosed Pharmac is.
  
  So if one maniac shoots many people once every few decades, how does that justify spending billions to stop it, and perhaps ineffectively? If mass shootings were happening every week or even every year, it would be different.
  
  It just seems odd that we make one set of harm reduction laws purely on emotion while we do many others in a hard nosed way. The Government readily lets hundreds of people die from medical conditions that could be mitigated by medications that are unfunded because they are not cost effective.
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:48am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    More people died from suicide in the following month after the mosque attacks, road deaths in two.
    
    How is the zero target for road death and suicides going? Has there been some massive car buy back that I missed?
    
    Should I be digging a hole in the garden with a very large concrete pipe to hide my vehicle from a compulsory buy back?
    
    The ‘weapons buy back’ is the socialists greatest coup against the freedom of New Zealanders while accepting as collateral damage those deaths on the road and by one’s own hand.
    
    Worst government (in the loosest possible terms) ever!
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:22am
    - Tall Man
      
      Well over 600 per year suicide in NZ yet that won’t get you in the international media wearing a scarf….
      
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      June 21, 2019 5:37pm
  - Tall Man
    
    That’s what we all think.
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:24am
- Tall Man
  
  “Trudeauville”…. Really?
  
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  June 21, 2019 10:19am
Fletch

Yet another attack on the oil and gas industry. Julie Anne Genter ” is looking to introduce legislation that would force some offshore oil and gas operators to be insured up to $1.2 billion in order to help cover the fallout of [an oil spill]”.

You know what this is, right? Of course you do. Not content with banning oil and gas exploration, (the end is not coming soon enough for them) they now want to impose crippling insurance which will stop the drilling NOW.

These people in govt are crippling our economy without a clue of what they are doing.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/nzs-offshore-oil-and-gas-operators-could-slapped-big-insurance-rate-hikes
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June 21, 2019 8:18am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  These companies are big enough to self insure to that sort of value. Should be a small cost.
  
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  June 21, 2019 8:59am
- Ross12
  
  Given most of the off shore exploration around NZ is for gas, then it looks like Genter needs some education.
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:07am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    She’s a greenie. Her education limit is full
    
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    June 21, 2019 9:29am
- Tall Man
  
  Of course she’s an idiot. No one is allowed to be smarter than ardern….. explains quite a bit doesn’t it.
  
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  June 21, 2019 10:31am
- MickMac
  
  Fletch
  They should cover their costs first…….
  It’s the professional thing to do, why should be bare the cost of their “accidents”….
  
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  June 21, 2019 12:14pm
- insider
  
  Under the RMA companies making releases into the environment are automatically responsible for all costs. Why are permits being issued by the govt to companies that can’t meet potential liabilities?
  
  I suspect the $1.2 billion figure was carefully extracted from someone’s nether regions.
  
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  June 21, 2019 12:17pm
  - Ross12
    
    Agree insider. The companies would already have insurance.
    This is just a beat up because a massive rig has just arrived in Taranaki. I hope they hit a massive find..
    
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    June 21, 2019 12:55pm
  - freethinker
    
    I didn’t know Robbo was so involved .
    
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    June 21, 2019 1:16pm
- Piniwi
  
  But Fletch @ 8.18 am there is a lot more hypocrisy on display as it would seem to be a total lack of unity with so many singers all singing from their own song sheets. From NewShub : “The Government has granted a coal mining exploration permit on Crown land in Waikato.” It seems that coal will be the fall back alternative for electricity production in the transition to unreliable renewable sources. You just can not make this garbage up as they continue to make failure their standard benchmark. Especially after many of the already permitted o&g exploration areas have been deserted by the major exploration operators drawn to stability beyond NZ. More of those unintended consequences coming into play.
  
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  June 21, 2019 2:46pm
Colville

So the gun buyback scheme.

A chap buys a AR15 a year ago to shoot goats with .
$2,000.
Puts a decent scope on it $800.
Bipod. $170.
DanCan Suppressor. $550
Gunbox $300.

Ardern and her merry nupties come along and say we will buy it back. Its used so 75% of list value.

$1500.

Loss on transaction $2,320.
Happy. No.
Bury it in he back yard for a rainy day. Probably.

Edit: and now he doesnt need his $2500 E cat safe either!
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June 21, 2019 8:19am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  What happens when Dad dies and you are bequeathed his gun, and want to hand it in? Can you do so without holding a gun license?
  So all those without a license are stuck with a gun (crims)
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:05am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Nice hypothetical. Here’s another one: my father dies and when I clear out his house I find three kilos of methamphetamine under the floor boards. That makes me a criminal right? So I’d better just get on with selling the drugs.
    
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    June 21, 2019 9:44am
    - Tall Man
      
      Next time you wander past your “analogy box”, try to find the right one because that one just showed us all that you ain’t as clever as you think.
      
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      June 21, 2019 10:33am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      My point was, do you need a license in order to have the Govt buy back your gun. But as usual, you choose to be an idiot.
      Sometimes you say some clever and outstanding things Mike, and I uptick you for it.
      Today is not one of those days, today is a troll day
      
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      June 21, 2019 11:37am
      - sooty
        
        Just another day ending in “Y”
        
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        June 21, 2019 6:20pm
  - Colville
    
    Steve.
    No. You phone the arms officer and say I have some guns but no license because of Dad.
    Arms officer will store them for you or you just leave them secured as they are.
    You sort out a license or disposal.
    Remember that legal disposal is just sale to a license holder so its easy.
    
    Also note if you let the Palmerston North arms office look after them you will probably never see them again. This could be helpful ! 🙂
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:04am
    - Tall Man
      
      And someone with a brain answers a genuine question. Thanks. The arms officer around here is a decent bloke and I have picked up a firearms in the past and handed them in when guys have let their license lapse and the firearm is of little value.
      
      I’ve still got an old single shot .22 and single barrel shotgun in the cupboard to hand in for an old mate.
      
      See mikey, that’s what normal intelligent people do, help out someone if they can, or shut the fuck up when they can’t but hey mikey, never let a chance for a smarmy comment slip past you eh?
      
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      June 21, 2019 10:37am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Some years ago my partner got sucked in to buying a fab pair of English flintlock dueling pistols which turned out to be fakes. He’s dying to see what they offer him when he shows them the $25k insurance valuation he was supplied at the time.
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:10am
  - Alien
    
    Didn’t that you put water in them and go bang bang give it away?
    
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    June 21, 2019 9:31am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      @Alein
      I just tried saying that without moving my lips. WTF?
      🙂
      
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      June 21, 2019 9:50am
  - MCos
    
    Prison time for fraud.
    
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    June 21, 2019 9:37am
  - stinkypete
    
    sadly maggie unless those are semi auto flintlocks they wont be buying them
    (you could always try strapping a 30 round mag to each one)
    
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    June 21, 2019 9:45am
  - Colville
    
    They wont buy them, they are not banned.
    
    What kind of moron would spend $25K without an independent valuation? Or did he buy them for “just” $10K and thought he was getting a deal?
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:07am
    - Tall Man
      
      When an elderly friend died some years ago, his widow asked me to see if anyone was interested in taking a couple of old Luger replicas that he had in the cupboard. He was an old Russian chap that had served in the RAF during the war.
      
      I took them to an engineer mate who had a few collector mates and lo and behold…. not replicas but the real McCoy. The local arms officer held them for her and arranged a sale to an E cat collector. Worth a few bucks back then as well.
      
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      June 21, 2019 10:42am
    - MCos
      
      I knew a bloke who paid a lot of money to an expert to ‘authenticate’ a fake painting.
      Everyone’s a winner!
      
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      June 21, 2019 10:43am
      - Komata
        
        Mcos@1043
        
        You’d be refering to Helen Clark then, wouldn’t you?
        
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        June 21, 2019 1:14pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Well hes certainly not a ‘moron’, silly!
      My partner bought them off a UK website for 2600 pounds. The valuation of 12,000 pounds was from what appeared to be a reputabe London auction house – turns out that had also been faked.
      Seller disappeared soon after.
      
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      June 21, 2019 10:45am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Sounds moronic.
        
        5 1
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        June 21, 2019 11:18am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Well if youre so smart, tell me this then mickey – how come his insurance company accepted the valuation when he specified them for 25k on his policy? LOL!!
        
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        June 21, 2019 11:56am
      - rangitoto
        
        “Well if youre so smart, tell me this then mickey – how come his insurance company accepted the valuation when he specified them for 25k on his policy? LOL!!”
        
        Doesn’t mean they would pay out 25K
        
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        June 21, 2019 1:42pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        True. Insurance companies are usually very happy for you to pay for more cover than an item is worth. When claim time comes, they are more interested in actual replacement value.
        
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        June 21, 2019 4:53pm
- stinkypete
  
  hard to see what is more stupid/frustrating
  1, not paying for non licence holders to give up guns
  2, not fairly compensating owners
  3, alienating gun owners by constantly referring to firearms as weapons at every opportunity, they are firearms ! anything can be a weapon if it is used to hurt someone, a brick is a weapon, a firearm is a firearm unless its mis used
  this is not about public safety its about demonising law abiding shooters and virtue signalling
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:18am
  - Tall Man
    
    “hard to see what is more stupid/frustrating”
    
    Waking up every morning to the realisation that we still have a bunch of lying idiots in the government.
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:43am
- SGA
  
  Genuine question – does he have to return the gun with the accessories attached? For example, do $800 scopes have no value except for particular rifles? (My guess would they would be more generic, but I don’t know exactly).
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:28am
  - rouppe
    
    Sure the scope could be used on another firearm. Though I would imagine those other firearms already have scopes.
    
    I don’t believe that firearms users have one scope that they move from firearm to firearm, because if you did that you’d need to zero the thing every time you took any given gun out.
    
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    June 21, 2019 9:38am
    - SGA
      
      In Colville’s example, the guy bought a AR15 a year ago to shoot goats. He still needs a rifle to shoot goats, just not a AR15. I was wondering why he couldn’t use the scope and bipod on the replacement (I don’t know enough about DanCan Suppressors to wonder about that). Or, alternatively, why he couldn’t sell the accessories on Trade Me rathe than hand them in?
      
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      June 21, 2019 10:00am
      - Colville
        
        SGA.
        Problem is you have 10,000 people all at the same time with all those accessories spare.
        
        A DanCan is a Dan Hardy suppressor made in Palmy Nth. Awesome. The US army use them.
        
        Most people who own a E Cat will own other toys and wont go out and buy a replacement for the E Cat that Ardern is taking.
        
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        June 21, 2019 10:15am
      - SGA
        
        But he doesn’t have to hand them in, is that right. The guy would just be better off using them on his replacement for the AR15?
        
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        June 21, 2019 10:47am
  - gorse
    
    Their definition of a prohibited firearm it doesn’t included accessories, so strip them to the basic firearm and turn that in. Use the scope and suppressor etc on your new bolt action rifle you buy with their money.
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:59am
- freethinker
  
  And the safe is now worth???????????????? O
  
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  June 21, 2019 1:17pm
- Piniwi
  
  But Colville @ 8.19 am. The graduated buy back % is based on WHOLESALE price not the RETAIL price apparently according to the initial release details.
  
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  June 21, 2019 2:53pm
Martin Williams

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Jong Kee would now simply change the flag by decree, he himself choosing that awful tea-towel design I presume?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12242524

This arrogant authoritarianism is what saw his popularity plummet, before he finally ran off with his tail between his legs.

That and the pony-tail pulling, and the prison rape jokes, and the homelessness, etc, etc.
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June 21, 2019 8:21am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Sheesh, you took the bait Martin, which was just what Key wanted.
  
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  June 21, 2019 8:49am
- Jade Warrior
  
  Martin – his name is John KEY. It’s the little things that count.
  
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  June 21, 2019 8:55am
  - double d
    
    Martin is a RACIST!
    
    34 1
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    June 21, 2019 9:06am
  - sooty
    
    With a “SIR” on the front!
    
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    June 21, 2019 9:15am
  - MCos
    
    Deliberate misspelling of names is unacceptable on this forum, by golly.
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:47am
    - freethinker
      
      Did you miss wog off the end now those dolls are not PC?
      
      3 1
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      June 21, 2019 1:18pm
    - doggone7
      
      Taxinda is the proof.
      
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      June 21, 2019 1:27pm
- Swifty
  
  It’s funny you know – given all supposed Key’s flaws, Labour could and did never beat him. Not even once.
  
  He, meanwhile, has the heads mounted on his wall of Clark, Goff, Shearer and Cunliffe – supposedly Labour’s best and brightest. Oh, and then Bill took out Angry.
  
  Doesn’t say much for them that they couldn’t topple Key, given how flawed you say he was.
  
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  June 21, 2019 8:57am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    Being good at winning elections doesn’t imply he was good at anything else. It was basically nine wasted years. Nothing that Key did would have been surprising from a Labour PM.
    
    10 30
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    June 21, 2019 9:09am
    - Swifty
      
      Oh, I do at least partly agree with you.
      
      However, just imagine what shape we’d be in if Clark and Cullen were in power 2008-17.
      
      And for that I am very grateful to Key and Co.
      
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      June 21, 2019 9:15am
    - ldypen
      
      Being good at winning elections doesn’t imply she is good at anything else… fixed it for you.
      
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      June 21, 2019 9:39am
  - cmm
    
    Bill also took out PriNZess.
    
    He had the guts to not bend over for Winston First.
    
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    June 21, 2019 9:29am
- Albert_Ross
  
  What sort of comment is “that awful tea-towel design”?
  
  Literally any design or image can be, and probably has been, printed on a tea-towel. I have seen a Mona Lisa tea-towel, innumerable Union Jack tea-towels, Mondrian tea-towels and one that reproduced the NZ$5 note. Saying that a design looks like a tea-towel provides absolutely no information as to its appearance or its artistic merit.
  
  You don’t like the idea of the Prime Minister making the choice himself – So how would you have it made? Unless you put in the hard yards to become Prime Minister yourself, you can hardly expect that you personally and nobody else gets to choose. So the choice needs to be made either by popular vote (time consuming and expensive), or by a single individual or small group that you’re not in and don’t get to appoint. Which is it?
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:07am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  No wonder we have a teacher problem in NZ. They are just not teaching the kids how to spell.
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:09am
  - freethinker
    
    You cant teach something you don’t know yourself. And theres an old saying – if you can’t do it teach it. I see few Teachers doing anything outside the classroom that is genuinely useful to society and little inside the classroom
    
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    June 21, 2019 1:22pm
- Alien
  
  It is Sir, John Key
  
  And good on him, he is elected to run the country and make decisions like that.
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:33am
  - MCos
    
    Not under our system of government.
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:51am
- KevO'Brien
  
  When you can make $50m from basic competence then you too can play in John Key’ s sandpit. I’m sure his skill will be an asset to any Board he is on or advisor too.
  
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  June 21, 2019 10:38am
- rangitoto
  
  Sir JK trolling the commies with their own policy LOL.
  
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  June 21, 2019 11:06am
Hugh Pavletich

… CHINA …

Is China’s concern over a possible US dollar shortage risk forcing companies to sell overseas assets? … South China Morning Post

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3015049/chinas-concern-over-possible-us-dollar-shortage-risk-forcing

• China’s need for US dollars to repay debts, pay for imports and fund Belt and Road initiative projects may exceed its US$3.1 trillion in foreign exchange reserves

• Anbang Insurance Group, Dalian Wanda Group and HNA Group have all been pressured to sell assets amid the trade war with the United States … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
Access recent important ‘China’ KB post …

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/06/general_debate_12_june_2019.html/comment-page-1#comment-2507088

China’s debt disease is infecting its housing market — Gwynn Guilford – Quartz

China’s empty homes may prove a bigger threat than Donald Trump’s tariffs … Michael Janda … ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
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June 21, 2019 8:22am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  Dominic comments at MacroBusiness Au (behind paywall) http://www.macrobusiness.com.au …
  
  https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/06/manufacturing-jobs-plummet-record-low/#comment-3373669
  
  DominicMEMBER
  June 21, 2019 at 8:11 am
  
  Hong Kong is the major conduit of US Dollars into China. It doesn’t surprise me that the Chinese back-tracked on this controversial extradition legislation very quickly. If the US sees fit to alter HK’s diplomatic status (owing to China’ encroachment) the Dollar spigot could run dry and that would spell disaster for the Chinese. In many respects the Dollar is the US’s greatest weapon against China and China knows it. No wonder the Chinese and Russians are desperately trying to extract themselves from a global payments system that effectively has them hostage.
  
  The sale of all these overseas assets is very reminiscent of the Japanese retreat in the late ’80s. The Chinese are over-levered into assets that they overpaid for and are struggling to fund. That’s a banking crisis waiting to happen — Kyle Bass may have lost patience, but it will happen.
  .
  .
  Other MB original post on Links page … https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/06/links-21-june-2019/#comment-3373596
  
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  June 21, 2019 10:51am
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    China can’t dump US debt – MacroBusiness Australia
    
    https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/06/china-cant-dump-us-debt/
    
    Via FTAlphaville:
    
    The pace at which China is selling its holdings of US Treasuries has accelerated dramatically since the beginning of 2018.
    
    Against the backdrop of the escalating US-China trade war and other protectionist measures, the move has sparked concerns that China is actively weaponising its position as the largest foreign creditor to the US government. The fear is that such selling — especially at a time when foreign demand for US Treasuries has flatlined — will result in higher US interest rates, pushing up borrowing costs. … read more via hyperlink above …
    
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    June 21, 2019 1:15pm
G152

Its all Campbell has left.
Reduced to playing in the soy boy media outlet and doing a “trump” to look relevant.
At one time he actually did some investigative journalism but not now…
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June 21, 2019 8:23am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I wonder if he watches replays of himself? He may find out how stupid, childish, and pathetic he is
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:12am
  - sooty
    
    Just look at him at the CC airport breathless and gushing! Why would he be at the airport, the shooting was else where. Was he expecting to interview the shooter as he made his getaway?
    
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    June 21, 2019 9:20am
Jade Warrior

The car crash that is Kiwibuild is set out in stereo, with Dolby 5.1 surround sound, on Stuff this morning:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113641010/how-kiwibuild-fell-down-and-whether-anything-can-be-saved-from-the-wreckage

It’s hard to know whether to laugh or cry as you read this history of this debacle. Given Twyford’s sanctimonious nature, I’ve opted for the former. He deserves to be relegated to the backbenches for this entire mess.
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June 21, 2019 8:25am
- Tony Stuart
  
  That’s an outstanding piece by Henry Cooke, although I doubt Twyford will be feeling too many warm fuzzies about Cooke this morning.
  
  No matter what the “reset” entails (including the strong possibility of a change of Minister), Kiwibuild is moribund, and will continue to stink up the coalition.
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:01am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  … With its late June announcements, will the New Zealand Government via its Housing & Urban Development Minister Phil Twyford (and others) FINALLY deal effectively with land supply / urban limits abolition and the proper debt financing of infrastructure … TO JUST ALLOW earthquake resilient low and light affordable building to be placed on sound ground ? …
  
  New Zealaned Housing Minister Phil Twyfords speech to the New Zealand Initiative Members Retreat … New Zealand Government / Beehive
  
  https://www.beehive.govt.nz/speech/speech-nz-initiative-members%E2%80%99-retreat
  
  … extract …
  
  … In our view there are three big challenges that have to be addressed:
  
  1. A broken system for financing infrastructure
  
  2. A planning system based on urban containment
  
  3. The failure of governments until now, both local and central, to actively work with the private sector to enable urban growth and expansion.
  
  … concluding …
  
  … I talked about the land banking and speculative economy, and the pressure cooker that has given us some of the most obscenely expensive housing in the world.
  
  These moves are designed to change that. …
  
  … If we do these things we can truly flood the market with development opportunities. We can break the land banking economy, and drive down the cost of urban land.
  
  We can achieve more competitive urban land markets. And industry that is more focused on development and building places of enduring value instead of land banking and speculation.
  
  That is the pathway to more affordable housing, and a systemic fix of the crisis that has caused so much hardship, and sucked so much of our national wealth into residential property instead of the productive economy. … read more via hyperlink above …
  .
  .
  From Kiwibuild to Kiwis Building … Dr Eric Crampton … The New Zealand Initiative
  
  https://nzinitiative.outreach.co.nz/?Ns=&Na=view-msg-public&SMESG-oid=22150&Scontact=2149250d
  
  Access extensive background information …in particular the ‘flight to affordability’ …
  
  Performance Urban Planning
  
  http://www.PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:04am
  - sooty
    
    What is Phill Twyford your BFF?
    
    9 3
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    June 21, 2019 9:22am
    - Tall Man
      
      What a silly question, people like hugh don’t have friends which is why he seeks validation here… again.. and again…..
      
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      June 21, 2019 10:46am
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        It was housing failure that finished off the Kiwi Tories 2016 / 2017 … read more …
        
        Gone Gone Going Section … http://www.PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org
        
        http://www.performanceurbanplanning.org/National%20News.html
        
        If the Tories cant do housing properly, they should shut up shop.
        
        The 9 lost years were a disgrace … and very saddening for an old Tory like me.
        
        Suburbia is supposed to be ‘The Cradle Of Conservatism’ … or at least it used to be !
        
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        June 21, 2019 11:22am
- freethinker
  
  He deserves to be relegated to the Parkbenches for this entire mess.
  There fixed that for you.
  
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  June 21, 2019 1:26pm
Inandout

AM Show this morning without Garner and Ruby was a delight to watch. Mark was more relaxed and guests Rankin and Travis added some common sense to discussions. The snowflakes of course will be choking on their cornflakes that girls and boys are actually different.
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June 21, 2019 8:28am
srylands

I suggest that you don’t watch or listen to John Campbell. Why would you do that?
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June 21, 2019 8:29am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Yep. I weaned myself off Breakfast TV after Paul Henry departed. My mornings are now far more relaxed.
  
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  June 21, 2019 8:53am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I don’t work Fridays so it’s compulsory (her indoors insists watching shit)
    
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    June 21, 2019 9:14am
    - sooty
      
      I wonder how much of a pay cut John Campbell took to retain a job on tv?
      After all where else could he go?
      
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      June 21, 2019 9:24am
      - Garbageman
        
        Some context might help Sooty Hillary Barry was reported as being on around 800K before moving back to TV1 not bad for an autocue reader i say, these chardonnay socialists only pretend to love the unwashed when it suits their ratings, so you can guarantee the left’s hero Campbell will be creaming it just as much
        
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        June 21, 2019 10:55am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Does anyone else here suffer such spousal abuse as being forced to watch breakfast TV?
      
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      June 21, 2019 11:19am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        It’s only because I’m waiting for my breakfast in bed Mike. Do you not have that white privilege? It must suck to be you
        
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        June 21, 2019 3:43pm
  - pdm
    
    Mike Hosking 6am to 9am for me most mornings. The exception being when I work nights and sleep through from 5am.
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:00am
Fletch

“Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites, in proportion as their love to justice is above their rapacity, in proportion as their soundness and sobriety of understanding is above their vanity and presumption, in proportion as they are more disposed to listen to the counsels of the wise and good, in preference to the flattery of knaves. Society cannot exist, unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere; and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters.”
–Edmund Burke
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June 21, 2019 8:30am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Thanks. I haven’t read Burke but now I will.
  
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  June 21, 2019 10:43am
Maggie Pie

During QT yesterday, wannabe National MP Christopher Luxton takes seat directly behind Deputy Party Leader Paula Bennett to observe proceedings in the chamber – [begins @11 sec ]

https://vimeo.com/343360598
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June 21, 2019 8:31am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Nice try Maggie, but it’s not Luxon (no t); that’s National’s Whip Matt Doocey, MP for Waimakariri. Same hairstyle though; both go to the barber for a wash, wax and polish 😀
  
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  June 21, 2019 8:55am
  - Swifty
    
    Grass won’t grow on a busy street.
    
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    June 21, 2019 9:00am
  - srylands
    
    Yes you beat me to it 🙂 Even the Air New Zealand CEO can’t just wander in and take a seat in the House.
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:26am
Wired-one

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113641010/how-kiwibuild-fell-down-and-whether-anything-can-be-saved-from-the-wreckage

Ardern is weak and incompetent, Twyford is incompetent and a dreamer and our media are frankly morons for not asking the hard questions when these policies were announced. What a disservice our MSM are to the NZ public.
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June 21, 2019 8:33am
- Tony Stuart
  
  To be fair, Henry Cooke has done a bloody good job with that piece. I doubt he’ll be invited to the PM’s Christmas Party.
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:06am
- PhilBest
  
  There is an extraordinary contradiction between “Kiwibuild Twyford” and “Institutional Reform” Twyford; it’s like two completely different people. I mean he should have known Kiwibuild was doomed to fail; but on the other hand he’s been doing a lot, less noticed, to draft new legislation about how urban growth is planned and how infrastructure for it is funded. All the expert economists including serious free-market ones are speaking quite highly of it. Eric Crampton’s last newsletter, for example.
  
  I do want government to get this right one day, regardless of who does it. Kiwibloggers should be quite clear that the status quo is unacceptable, with Councils doing “central planning” like the old Soviets, and owners of land handed monopolistic price-gouging powers – so that rural land is $20,000 an acre but move a growth boundary a bit and suddenly it is worth $2,000,000? The infrastructure that is the excuse for the planning, would cost <$100,000 per dwelling, so it is ridiculous to be trying to make savings here with the consequence that every new home incorporates a price premium of around $300,000 just as unearned profit for the original land vendor!
  
  I really expected in 2008, that National were the right people to understand this and do something about it. If Twyford is the one who gets it right now, I'll regard him somewhat in the same way as I regarded Roger Douglas after nine years of sclerotic Muldoonism.
  
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  June 21, 2019 10:09am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The wreckage will remain as long as the COL. Idiocy may be diverted but only clowns attempt to profit by it.
  
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  June 21, 2019 10:47am
cmm

Stuff: “The rise and fall of Kiwibuild”

Sorry stuff, Kiwibuild never rose. It was born dead.

Ouch, mean people at stuff putting in the boot!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113641010/how-kiwibuild-fell-down-and-whether-anything-can-be-saved-from-the-wreckage
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June 21, 2019 8:41am
- Jade Warrior
  
  Interestingly, given the size of the article and the prominence of the issue, only 28 people have been allowed to comment on it so far. I would imagine the number of people who have submitted comments to Stuff would be much higher than that by now. Given that all the comments posted are very critical of the scheme, I suspect comments will be closed on this article very soon. ?
  
  An unflattering reference about the couple who purchased the first Kiwibuild home also appears to have been deleted from the article since it was first posted. Makes you wonder what else might be edited or deleted as the day progresses …
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:40am
  - rouppe
    
    I can no longer comment on Stuff as I pointed out that 400ppm was the same as 12 people in a 30,000 seat stadium, and posited that this didn’t really constitute a “blanket”
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:00am
    - srylands
      
      Yes I can’t comment. I must be on some black list.
      
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      June 21, 2019 10:28am
      - Tall Man
        
        I’m proud to say I am also a member of that esteemed club 😉
        
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        June 21, 2019 10:48am
- KevO'Brien
  
  “It remains popular with the public”… ???
  
  It was announced as for the low income community and underwrote developers selling to professional high earners.
  1. Failure of vision.
  2. Failure of administration.
  3. Failure of attainment.
  4. Diversion from goal.
  5. Underwriting of private developments with public moneys.
  6. Exemplar of socialist incompetence and maladministration.
  ☑️ ☑️
  
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  June 21, 2019 10:59am
Simon

Climate Change. OMG.

What to see some real action. 10 years Comrades!

Tourism is major contributor to raising global temperatures and a major Auckland industry. Time for Phil Goff to step and kill off all the hotels, screw up Auckland Airport / air travel and end all the events like American Cup.

Phil Goff and the Climate emergency. It just so funny to see all the little clowns gather around him while he goes on and on about it. They actually believe him.
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June 21, 2019 8:43am
- Fletch
  
  Now they want the capital to be carbon-free by 2050….
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/06/wellington-set-to-be-a-zero-carbon-capital-by-2050.html
  
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  June 21, 2019 8:58am
  - Rich Prick
    
    I have a V8 standing in the way of that dream. But I’ll wager a spike in mental health issues with these emergencies freaking the school kids out all the time.
    
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    June 21, 2019 9:28am
  - rangitoto
    
    Ban all transport to and from Wellington. That will fiix it.
    
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    June 21, 2019 3:01pm
- Ross12
  
  To gain some sanity on the issue listen to Leighton Smith’s latest podcast. An hour with Dr Tim Ball.
  
  Also Alan Jones had a great show the other night on it : https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6049514488001
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:14am
  - Kabull
    
    Fascinating interview with Dr Morner. “There is something basically sick in the blame carbon dioxide hypothesis”. Also, sea level in the equatorial region has not risen over the past 50 years.
    Morner was chairman of the IPCC’s international committee on sea level changes. He was elected to review the chapter on sea level changes, written by 30 people – not one of which was a sea level specialist. He describes the report as very low quality, like a student paper. He resigned because his criticisms were unacceptable.
    He says 80-90% of physicists know the carbon dioxide hypothesis is wrong. 80 % of astronomers and geologists also know it is wrong.
    He points to the increase in green vegetation in recent years and highlights that in the Sudan there has been a significant change not because of more rain but becasue of increased CO2.
    Morner predicts that in 10-20 years the earth will be in another solar cooling period.
    It is frightening how the IPCC has been able to fool the whole world.
    
    Another interview with Morner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1PS9-oOfRw
    
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    June 21, 2019 11:04am
  - stephieboy
    
    Roos 12 , both need to see their Doctors,
    
    Tim Ball
    
    “..When you take his global warming denialism together with creationism and his admiration for Immanuel Velikovsky there’s clear evidence for crank magnetism..”
    
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Tim_Ball
    
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    June 21, 2019 11:27am
  - backster
    
    A great interview by Jones. Even NASA has now put out a statement stating that the next solar cycle starting about now will be the quietest for 200 years and that will bring really cold conditions which are already occurring but not being reported through much of the world.
    
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    June 21, 2019 12:37pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  And therein the central puzzle of our time.
  
  Politicians don’t actually want to take the electorally and economically ruinous actions that acceptance of the climate change science would prescribe.
  
  So why is practically every Government in the world – dictatorship or democracy, socially liberal or conservative, capitalist or collectivist – conspiring to bribe and blackmail practically every scientist in the world, to go against scientific principles and evidence by continuing to promote the lie that Governments must do something that neither they nor their electorates want to do?
  
  Don’t you think that if Governments actually were able to convince scientists as a body to tell lies about science – then they would get scientists to produce scientific evidence for policies that are cheap, easy to implement and likely to win votes?
  
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  June 21, 2019 9:22am
  - The Feed
    
    I think the global warming/climate change/climate emergency business is pretty clever.
    
    It’s certainly not what it claims to be.
    
    It’s rooted in religious imagery, particularly Old Testament Christian. We will “burn in hellfire” if we don’t “be good”. We can undertake little acts of “penance”, like not using plastic bags and riding a bike, which, like saying ten Hail Marys, achieves nothing at all, but does absolve someone of guilt.
    
    And who dictates all this? Well, the high priests. Do as they say. Do as they say and you will escape hellfire.
    
    This is all about centralising power by using a firey illusion and a promise of redemption.
    
    Nothing. Ever. Changes.
    
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    June 21, 2019 11:01am
  - Durden
    
    Makes perfect sense for the government. Take money from taxpayers and create “jobs” knowing fully well that they don’t have to do anything for stopping climate change. Because it does not exist nothing needs to be done. Whatever is the climate they can claim that it is because they did something.
    
    Perfect rort.
    
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    June 21, 2019 1:38pm
- The Feed
  
  Yep, it’s an emergency Phil, you said so yourself.
  
  Shut down the airport. Air travel is not carbon friendly and, given it’s an EMERGENCY, you need to act NOW!
  
  Sure, sure – people will complain. And you won’t have any money. And most of your ratepayers won’t have any money. And you will turn Auckland into some third-world shithole. Well, more of one, anyway.
  
  But it’s an EMERGENCY. How can you be encouraging plane travel, Phil? At very least, ban all council employees from cars and planes. Do it today , Phil.
  
  Let no one say that “the mayor is full of it”. I have upmost faith in you, Phil. Let’s do this.
  
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  June 21, 2019 10:14am
- srylands
  
  Yes that’s the irony. The best thing New Zealand could do for greenhouse emissions is to discourage people from flying to New Zealand. We could run ads in Europe. ‘Be responsible about climate change. Holiday in Spain.’
  
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  June 21, 2019 10:30am
  - The Feed
    
    Yep.
    
    I say the new tactic should be to give the climate worriers exactly what they claim to want.
    
    Only when they can’t get on a plane for their “hols” in the Gold Coast will they start to be reasonable about this utter climate fraud.
    
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    June 21, 2019 10:34am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The America’s Cup will have to be canceled in view of the faux emergency.
  
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  June 21, 2019 11:00am
- kowtow
  
  Wellington “climate emergency” declaration got 2 sq inches on page 3 of the ODT , can’t be much of an emergency.
  
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  June 21, 2019 11:25am
Fletch

Let’s be honest – this gun scheme is a confiscation, but “buy back” sounds nicer. It was a knee jerk reaction to tragedy but won’t make any difference in the long run. This govt likes to ban stuff – certain guns, certain cars, plastic bags, oil and gas, etc, etc. We’re only just realizing the extent of it now. Hopefully the damage can be mitigated before we vote them out next year.
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June 21, 2019 9:50am
- kowtow
  
  Yep , people who think the gun ban is a good idea and worth backing won’t deserve any sympathy when this mob come to ban free speech.
  
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  June 21, 2019 11:27am
hullkiwi

Praise be folks, New Zealand has PriNZess Saint Jacinda…..

On her way to work this morning, Mrs HK hears on the Breeze radio station breaking news.

Jacinda is so proud of her amazing daughter as the baby celebrates her first birthday today….

There you go sooty, they rolled out the baby to wipe away/distract us from another CoL/Jacinda mess….

Be warned Jacinda, you PR spinmeisters and trolling synchophants on this blog, if you need to survive by the oxygen of nonsense publicity and public adoration, don’t be surprised or upset when the media turn hostile to Jacinda and her family…..

…..and then to make my morning, I opened the internet on my computer and the MSN home page has this gem of a link on the page.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/refugee-family-of-christchurch-mosque-attack-victims-resettle-in-new-zealand/ar-AADa2xU?ocid=spartandhp

A news article from RNZ.

Yes, 15/03/2019 was tragic, and yes it is tragic that a woman lost her husband and one son in the shootings. However, the words of, dare I write it, Brian Tamaki and his facebook post a few days ago are gaining some credibility.

In this case, 11 Syrian refugees (including a mother/grandmother) living in Turkey (a Muslim country) are to be settled in NZ. These people have no way of supporting themselves, let alone the woman and child already in NZ. So, the government and the UNHCR agree to resettle 11 more people in NZ.

Sorry, but every year in NZ, families suffer tragedies and lose the “bread winner”, but do we see the government stepping in to relocate extended families from the other side of the world, No!. Do we see, the government providing on going welfare to such families, NO! But we do and we will in this instance.

When will the PM understand, she is the annointed Prime Minister of New Zealand and is responsible to all New Zealanders (and not Syrians living in Turkey)? That means being responsive to all New Zealanders first.

So, Martin Williams, Ian Boag, stephie, MMA and other Labour Trolls, tell Jacinda if she keeps this up, she will run out of her store of fairy dust, and even her wedding will be seen for the PR sham that she is. Because she does not seem to know where the line is between Jacinda Ardern the person and Jacinda Ardern Prime Minister, who just happens to be the 8th highest paid leader of a country.
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June 21, 2019 10:02am
- The Feed
  
  You have to understand the mindset of the lefties. They see themselves as “kind”. The more opportunities they have to be seen as “kind”, the more virtuous they feel, which makes them “better” people than you.
  
  In my experience, few have any clue what “opportunity cost” means. And “kindness” almost always involves someone else’s money, never their own.
  
  Personally, I do not think it is kind to spend additional millions on importing people whilst we have many Kiwis suffering from poor education and not being adequately fed. The priority should be sorting out out own problems as we cannot solve all problems equally well and we are more likely to be able to solve problems closer to home.
  
  But apparently pointing this out makes me a bad person.
  
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  June 21, 2019 10:29am
- brett68
  
  You should go read the trade me general forum.
  Good o’l middle Nu Ziland there, be warned though it could make you lose to will to live.
  
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  June 21, 2019 10:36am
- Swifty
  
  11 people, plus the two already here, makes 13.
  
  Average household of four means 4 houses they’ll need, over time – not including any more children they’ll now go on to have.
  
  Scratch 4 houses from the Kiwibuild count.
  
  Oh and by the way, I saw some reliable refugee cost figures a while back – it costs NZ taxpayers close to $100,000 dollars per refugee per year, or, $1 million each over their first 10 years.
  
  This one family will cost the country $13 million over the next decade.
  
  How many minimum wage tax payers will have to slave for a year to pay that tax? At $10k tax from each per year, 1,300 taxpayers will have to work for a year just to pay for this one family for the next decade.
  
  Or putting it another way, it will take the annual taxes of 130 NZers to pay for this one family for one year’s costs.
  
  It’s easy when its other people’s money.
  
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  June 21, 2019 10:56am
  - Paulus
    
    Have heard that Ardern went to Mangere to greet the new family(s).
    
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    June 21, 2019 2:33pm
    - Swifty
      
      Oh yes. Here she is.
      
      https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/refugee-family-of-christchurch-mosque-attack-victims-resettle-in-new-zealand/ar-AADa2xU?ocid=spartandhp
      
      It’s now obvious that her spinmeisters believe there’s much to be gained for her to be recorded at these types of events and especially post March 15.
      
      I guarantee it’ll be these types of images that will dominate Labour’s election material next year.
      
      Note too no mention of cost in the news piece – nor mention of any refugees who have gone on to live shit lives or indeed rape, bash and/or kill. You know, for balance.
      
      No siree.
      
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      June 21, 2019 5:08pm
- stephieboy
  
  hull kiwi and coy, snooze button alert!
  
  Outisde the KB alt right bubble chamber nobody cares!
  
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  June 21, 2019 10:59am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Stephie, alt right you think? Tell that to the supporters of Winston First.
    
    In case the memo hasn’t got to you, that is the party Jacinda wants to keep in parliament next year. Think about it….and keep repeating “well being” to yourself, because nobody is getting other than Labour spinmeisters and trolls.
    
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    June 21, 2019 12:06pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Well, they bloody well should.
    
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    June 21, 2019 1:30pm
    - Swifty
      
      Stiffy is talking crap.
      
      Immigration levels are a big concern for many NZers.
      
      Our hospitals, schools, housing stock, transport, productivity, wage-levels, and employment are all under great pressure and we still bring in people at near record levels.
      
      I know a number of people, myself included, who feel doubly insulted because lowering immigration promptly was a Labour and NZ First campaign promise – and here they are rubbing our noses in it.
      
      What happened to all the crises Labour harped on about all these years?
      
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      June 21, 2019 5:22pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    Stephie, alt-right am I?
    
    I don’t think it is alt-right to point out that the crack are starting to show in the fairy world Jacinda built.
    
    https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/newsevent/christchurch-victims-say-new-zealand-has-fallen-short-of-lofty-promises/ar-AADdDLh?ocid=spartandhp
    
    It seems her new friends, both local and abroad are seeing her promises as hollow. meanhile you have to question the motives of her new found local friends.
    
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    June 22, 2019 6:28am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Ardern is still facing a growing world recession is she out in neaverneaverland?
  
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  June 21, 2019 11:04am
Maggie Pie

Seen not far from St Lukes Mall –

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D9hqzT8X4AANjyn?format=jpg&name=small
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June 21, 2019 10:33am
- MCos
  
  Bullshit.
  I left the shopping cart in Mangere.
  
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  June 21, 2019 10:58am
skyblue

Happy Birthday to the First Bastard, Neve.
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June 21, 2019 11:01am
- MickMac
  
  Skyblue
  whilst I don’t agree with your sentiment, at least you are accurate.
  
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  June 21, 2019 12:50pm
- Alien
  
  Is that you Clarke?
  
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  June 21, 2019 4:56pm
Jack5

? John Key in the Herald is reported as saying he wished he had just pushed through a flag change, and we would have got used to it.

Mmm. Enjoy your Hawaii with its state flag, complete with Union Jack, John Key.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Hawaii
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June 21, 2019 11:02am
stephieboy

From TM:. It will be interesting to see how this plays out especially the fact the President himselfshortchanges on the truth about every time,

“Secretary Pompeo gives zero proof but insists that Iran is responsible for ship attacks in Gulf of Oman. Lies, lies, and more lies to make a case for war”

‘Deja Vu’ of Iraq War Lies as Mike Pompeo Blames Iran for Tanker Attack Without Single Shred of Evidence

In a press conference that immediately evoked memories of the lead-up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Thursday claimed Iran was behind alleged attacks on two oil tankers in the Gulf of Oman without presenting one single shred of evidence.

“This assessment is based on intelligence, the weapons used, the level of expertise needed to execute the operation, recent similar Iranian attacks on shipping, and the fact that no proxy group operating in the area has the resources and proficiency to act with such a high-degree of sophistication,” said Pompeo, who did not provide any details on the intelligence he cited.
After asserting Iran was also behind a litany of attacks prior to Thursday’s tanker incident—once again without presenting any evidence—Pompeo said that,”Taken as a whole, these unprovoked attacks present a clear threat to international peace and security ,

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/06/13/deja-vu-iraq-war-lies-mike-pompeo-blames-iran-tanker-attack-without-single-shred
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June 21, 2019 11:17am
- All_on_Red
  
  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iran-tanker-attack-mine-gulf-oman-japan-oil-us-evidence-uk-a8965181.html
  
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  June 21, 2019 11:45am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I’m glad you agree with that article. Sample quote:
    
    “Iran is a strong culprit, anything is else just conspiracy theory,” said one former US intelligence officer. “But nobody trusts Bolton, Trump, or Pompeo. Lots of bluster and no substance.”
    
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    June 21, 2019 11:51am
    - All_on_Red
      
      I certainly don’t trust Bolton (handy to have as a scary attack dog though). Pompeo is a bit too swampy too.
      Here’s Trumps response to Iran shooting down a drone.
      “, he said, “I find it hard to believe it was intentional if you want to know the truth.”
      “I would imagine it was a general or somebody who made a mistake in shooting the drone down,” Trump said. “Fortunately, that drone was unarmed. It was not — there was no man in it, it was in international waters but we didn’t have a man or woman in the drone, we had nobody in the drone. Would have made a big, big difference.”
      https://abcnews.go.com/International/iran-shoots-american-drone-international-airspace-us-official/story?id=63825990
      
      That’s a measured and reasoned approach. There’s no point of a war with Iran and it’s clear Trump doesn’t want one either.
      
      There’s been a bit of discussion in intelligence circles about conflict between the Mullahs in Teheran and elements in the IRG.
      I’m glad you agree Stephie knows eff all – as usual.
      
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      June 21, 2019 12:20pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Yeah, he’s walking back his first comments. Interesing that you label his handpicked national security security picks as a ‘bit swampy’ (I’d prefer the term ‘mouth-frothing warmongers’).
        The president and his rotating door of similarly stable geniuses bring the Nixon/Kissinger ‘madman’ gambit from theory to reality.
        
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        June 21, 2019 1:03pm
      - stephieboy
        
        Thus saith the White House Press Secretary wannabe!
        
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        June 21, 2019 1:06pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        What should be the response? I think US should just bill them for the trouble – say $100 million. If they refuse to pay then take some mobile asset off them – like a ship or plane or submarine or something.
        
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        June 21, 2019 1:32pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/16/obama-legacy-on-war-drones-war-on-terror
        “Obama’s hallmark has been drone strikes, which he has used to bomb at least seven countries since becoming president. For all the talk of their precision and pin-pointedness, though, drones regularly kill additional people and have resulted in hundreds of civilian deaths. These strikes cause blowback and stoke anti-American hatred in virtually every country they fly in, and many former officials say the program does more harm than good.”
        
        Seven countries! Goodness me.
        And this guy got the Nobel Peace Prize…
        
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        June 21, 2019 2:53pm
      - stephieboy
        
        All on Red, whatever! Your commander in Chief excels his predecessor on all counts,
        
        Trump revokes Obama rule on reporting drone strike deaths
        
        President Donald Trump has revoked a policy set by his predecessor requiring US intelligence officials to publish the number of civilians killed in drone strikes outside of war zones.
        
        The 2016 executive order was brought in by then-President Barack Obama, who was under pressure to be more transparent.
        
        Since the 9/11 terror attack, drone strikes have been increasingly used against terror and military targets.
        
        The Trump administration said the rule was “superfluous” and distracting.
        
        The order applied to the CIA, which has carried out drone strikes in countries such as Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Somalia.
        
        “..During Mr Obama’s eight years in office, 1,878 drone strikes were carried out, according to researchers. Since Mr Trump was elected in 2016, there have been 2,243 drone strikes. The Republican president has also made some of the operations, the ones outside of war zones, more secretive. As a result, things have different today: under Mr Trump, there are more drone strikes – and less transparency…”
        
        https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207
        
        Pathetic!
        
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        June 21, 2019 3:13pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        “, according to the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, a UK-based think tank.”
        
        Snigger- Vox, Salon, Commondreams(that’s a goody!)Daily Mail, Vice, RationalWiki etc
        You’re such a sucker for the dubious sources.
        Still hardly a surprise from a Science Denying Creationist like you.
        
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        June 21, 2019 5:05pm
      - stephieboy
        
        All on Red , Gatewaypundit ( the Prez’s favourite ) your benchmark for investigative journalism?
        
        https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-gateway-pundit/
        
        LOL!
        
        And snigger back at you!
        
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        June 21, 2019 7:29pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        You have no credibility with the BS you prattle and are a Science Denying Creationist
        
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        June 22, 2019 2:46am
- Alien
  
  Stephane standing up for Iran now against actual evidence, does she have no standards?
  
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  June 21, 2019 11:48am
cmm

Hager the awful is taking a leaf out of Labour’s book with “recalibration”.

After the evidence that there were insurgents in the villiage, he does not back down.

Instead he says this supports his main point that civilians were killed.

No you slimy little sack of shit, that was never your main point.

Your main point was always that there were no insurgents and a completely harmless village, indeed the wrong village, was unjustifiably targeted due to bungled intelligence.

Some civilians killed as collateral damage in a valid mission is not, and never was, news.

Apologise if you have any shred of decency to:
1) The members of the armed forces.
2) The people you have mislead and continue to mislead.
3) The taxpayers who’s work you have wasted.

Apologise and I will withdraw my comment above.
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June 21, 2019 11:18am
- Alien
  
  Hager and decency? Hager apologise?
  
  CMM, please see a doctor immediately
  
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  June 21, 2019 12:03pm
- stephieboy
  
  cmm, why Hager should make an apology coming for you is beyond belief !
  
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  June 21, 2019 1:08pm
- Swifty
  
  Hager and Stiffboy are cut from the same cloth.
  
  Will never admit when they’re wrong, will never apologise for being wrong and when proven wrong will just scurry and slither away like nothing ever happened.
  
  All emanating of course from some weird and pathological streak in their personalities which results in them thinking they’re always right; about everything. Doubly ironic because certainly in Stiffy’s case no one on Kiwiblog comes even remotely close to him in being so wrong, so often on so many things.
  
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  June 21, 2019 7:46pm
Tall Man

Have a look at this story and the lead photo…

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/06/21/645676/does-gun-buyback-strike-the-right-balance

If I had ever held a rifle like that in the presence of my father he would have taken a boot to my arse.

This is a big cheese in our police force holding a firearm which is clearly pointed at people. Sure, his finger is off the trigger, sure the firearm is probably unloaded…

The regulations and common sense dictate that a firearm is to be “always” treated as loaded. Great example set by a senior officer just so he can get a “cool” photo.
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June 21, 2019 11:32am
- Alien
  
  Yes but tall man this is the police, they can’t even secure 11 guns.
  
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  June 21, 2019 12:05pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Or find the remaining three.
    
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    June 21, 2019 1:33pm
- Grey Skills
  
  Tall Man, totally agree re the pointing of the firearm. There is an often repeated TV picture of a senior police officer carelessly holding a firearm in parliament during one of the early investigations in April. The woman to the right appears distressed by it. I spent six years in the police as a young constable and spent time in small rural areas where there were more guns than letterboxes – mostly for hunting. One day I confronted a drunken youth with a shotgun. I had a 38 revolver – not a rifle as rules were it might endanger other civilians if I missed… I knew I could take the youth but in the 60s and 70s it was “Rule Britannia – wait until you are shot, then shoot.” I left a year after as I knew I might not hesitate next time.
  
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  June 21, 2019 5:23pm
All_on_Red

Spanish commentators discussing the NZ Election
https://mobile.twitter.com/maga_nightshift/status/1141636524380835840
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June 21, 2019 11:35am
kowtow

From the ‘Only in Aotearoa’ files.

‘A high-profile gang member with a domestic violence conviction is playing a key role within the Royal Commission of Inquiry into state abuse, despite one woman going to police over safety fears.’

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/gang-members-role-in-state-abuse-commission-untenable-for-survivors-campaigner/ar-AADb2jI?ocid=spartandhp
15 1
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June 21, 2019 11:37am
Alien

Love it, an unreleased Freddie Mercury song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGjt291COa0
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June 21, 2019 11:38am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Good doco on Prime the other night on News of the World. Probably on demand video somewhere.
  
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  June 21, 2019 1:05pm
  - Alien
    
    Yeah I watched it.
    
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    June 21, 2019 6:21pm
- greybeard
  
  Which sounds like every other Freddy Mercury song.
  
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  June 21, 2019 6:39pm
Maggie Pie

Just went into the kitchen to make myself a sammie and fliked on the radio.
Couldn’t believe it – they’re talking about that bloody ‘Israel Folau’ again!

God give me STRENGTH.
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June 21, 2019 11:46am
- Alien
  
  If you want a Sammie shouldn’t you ask god for bread and wine?
  
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  June 21, 2019 12:08pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    No need. I’ve still got a Krispie Kreme left over from Sunday.
    HEAVENLY!
    
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    June 21, 2019 12:48pm
    - MCos
      
      Interesting article I stumbled upon the other day regarding JAB Holdings, which owns Krispie Kreme.
      Seems they have an unsavoury past in Nazi Germany
      https://www.ft.com/content/3cdcbbfe-4f0b-11e9-b401-8d9ef1626294
      
      3 0
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      June 21, 2019 1:16pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Yes, i posted on the xact same thing yesterday 🙂
        – probaly where u read it.
        
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        June 21, 2019 2:28pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Five days old, isn’t it getting stale and if not why not?
      
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      June 21, 2019 1:34pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        No, silly! What i do is remove their filling and store the donuts in zip-lock bags in the freezer. When i want one, i get it out in the morning to thaw, then refill it with fresh whip cream and Mother Earth rasp jam.
        You should give it a try Rach – theyre sooo yummy .
        
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        June 21, 2019 2:37pm
- barnacle bill
  
  A great wee piss take about Falou and the Tamaki connection.
  
  https://thaicastle.co/2019/05/28/israel-falou-announces-that-he-has-joined-brian-tamakis-coalition-party/
  
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  June 21, 2019 3:12pm
mandk

‘God give me STRENGTH’

Funnily enough, Maggie, that’s what Israel Folau prays every day.
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June 21, 2019 12:08pm
kowtow

ASB rural economist letter to the woke Camerons.

Worth a read.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12242281
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June 21, 2019 12:23pm
Alien

Poor labour if this is true, they can’t keep anything secret

“National claims it’s been leaked Cabinet paper on tertiary reforms

National claims it’s been leaked a Cabinet paper that describes further reforms of the tertiary sector where polytechnics would be subsidiaries of a larger body.

It’s the second time in two months National’s been leaked a Cabinet paper. The party was leaked details of plans for the cannabis referendum in May.

Dr Shane Reti, National’s Tertiary Education spokesperson, said the latest leaked Cabinet paper provides more detail about the Government’s proposal to merge New Zealand’s polytechnics. “

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/06/national-claims-it-s-been-leaked-cabinet-paper-on-tertiary-reforms.html
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June 21, 2019 12:59pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Yes, the Good Ship Coalition has been leaking like a sieve these last few weeks. Who isn’t happy?
  
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  June 21, 2019 2:13pm
  - Alien
    
    Wouldn’t it be quicker to list who is happy?
    
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    June 21, 2019 2:21pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Anyone who is happy is not the full quid.
      
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      June 21, 2019 7:50pm
MCos

Headline of the day

Oamaru Man, 80, Caught With 15 ounces Cannabis Promises Judge to Kick the Habit.
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June 21, 2019 2:02pm
- mandk
  
  Reading the story on Stuff, it looks like he took the rap for his grandson, who was dealing.
  
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  June 21, 2019 3:24pm
Grey Skills

Given that New Zealand is approximately a $90 Billion per annum “business” in which all the usual social policies of health, education, justice and welfare etc exist alongside future growth aspirations of most –how come I look at the COL Cabinet and can’t see a shred of experience that I would trust with a Kindy committee? How did we get to this?
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June 21, 2019 2:56pm
- krazykiwi
  
  soz bro.
  
  don’t sweat all that boring stuff.
  
  selfie?
  
  hugz?
  
  5 1
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  June 21, 2019 3:52pm
  - Tall Man
    
    hugz = rapes so maybe they’ll dial back the hugs….
    
    1 1
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    June 21, 2019 7:48pm
Jack5

Opposition Leader Simon Bridges has called on Finance Minister Robertson to get involved in the Reserve Bank review of banks’ regulatory capital requirements.

Bridges said that while he respected the RBNZ’s independence when it came to monetary policy (IE setting interest rates), he saw the capital review as a “regulatory function” that Robertson should get involved in.

The financial web site, interest.co, reports Bridges said that he didn’t believe the Reserve Bank was”much different to say MBIE or another government department”.

The RBNZ prides itself on its independence. Under the Reserve Bank Act, it is tasked with being banks’ prudential regulator.
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June 21, 2019 3:59pm
- Jack5
  
  ? EDIT: (having difficulty with editing comments in Kiwiblog) –
  
  … …
  
  The financial web site, interest.co., reports Bridges said that while he respected the RBNZ’s independence in monetary policy (i.e. setting interest rates), he saw the capital review as a “regulatory function” that Robertson should get involved in.
  
  In terms of carrying out this “regulatory function”, Bridges said he didn’t believe the Reserve Bank was “much different to say MBIE or another government department”.
  
  https://www.interest.co.nz/banking/100287/national-leader-simon-bridges-calls-finance-minister-challenge-reserve-banks
  
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  June 21, 2019 4:04pm
alex Masterley

I’m sitting at my desk staring at the things on my desk working out what to do next.
My unpaid intern (my son) rings while on route to my office from his school.
He is on the outer link, one of Auckland’s bus services.
He tells me that that service has been stopped for health and safety reasons.
Why? I say.
Because some-one took a dump in the backseat of the bus he says.
All the passengers are off loaded before the bus returns to it’s base for de-contamination.
Absolutely unbelievable that this can happen. Bloody ferals.
Yet another reason not to use Auckland Public transport.
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June 21, 2019 4:28pm
- Alien
  
  How do you know it wasn’t someone with a medical condition?
  
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  June 21, 2019 6:20pm
- stephieboy
  
  A nother piece of whinging unverifable , unprovable anecdotal off the cuff claims.
  
  Make him walk!
  
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  June 21, 2019 7:37pm
Tall Man

Ain’t diversity great…………….
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June 21, 2019 7:45pm
Tall Man

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/overweight-woman-left-bruised-and-in-tears-after-air-new-zealand-flight/

As a frequent flier, she represents my biggest flight nightmare.

She may well be comfortable in her skin but I am not comfortable having her skin in my seat.

I am also well aware that AirNZ do not guarantee that your booked seat will in fact be the seat you get given and they are right, at the kiosk you have to “accept” the change which is something she had to do.

I have noticed the growth in passenger size over the past 5 or so years and these people need to get their shit together and loose some weight.

To avoid the issue we now fly at the front of the plane but you can still get stuck on the domestic legs.
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June 21, 2019 9:07pm
Tall Man

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/education/university-of-otago-apologises-over-law-exam-with-similarities-to-christchurch-attack/

What a world of truly pathetic people we are breeding.
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June 21, 2019 9:33pm
Hugh Pavletich

… The ANZ john Key / David Hisco fiasco … continues …

Did Hisco take the fall for ANZ board’s embarrassment? | Janine Stark OPINION Stuff.co.nz

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113629736/did-hisco-take-the-fall-for-anz-boards-embarrassment

OPINION: Once upon a time, at a large New Zealand bank, I watched my boss sign off our corporate credit card expenses.

As my eyes scanned down the list, a dodgy debit leapt off the page. We both arched an eyebrow. The culprit’s attention was sought across the room. “Just drinks?” The response was yes. “With a client?” Affirmative again.

“Quite a lot of drinks,” I muttered and went back to the incoming call. The dubious-looking charge was a discreet prostitution house, with a bar. … read more via hyperlink above …
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Hisco Inferno: ANZ chairman John Key feels the heat as David Hisco saga intensifies – Fran O’Sullivan – NZ Herald
… behind paywall …

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12242830
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ANZ bought $7.5m Auckland property for David Hisco | Kate MacNamara | Stuff.co.nz

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113661929/anz-bought-75m-beachside-auckland-property-for-david-hisco
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Google NZ Search ‘ANZ David Hisco’

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C2GIGM_enNZ518NZ518&source=hp&ei=W54KXYnDEIqy9QOTpbmABA&q=anz+david+hisco&oq=anz+david+hisco&gs_l=psy-ab.12..
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June 22, 2019 6:52am

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