General Debate 6 July 2019

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Happychappy

So David Clark thinks he has the right plan to treat cancer patients and take the criticism away from a Government
that promised lots that would help but has delivered zero.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/114013594/government-promises-to-cancer-patients-could-come-back-to-bite-as-politics-takes-over
Does this mean if this does not address the problem in health that David Clark will resign or the PM will sack him, as you can’t keep blaming the previous Government for your Ministers continual cock ups as their is lives at stake and families who are also suffering.
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July 6, 2019 8:11am
- cmm
  
  Doctor David Clark surely knows how to deal with cancer patients. He’s a doctor!
  
  A doctor of religion, so maybe he’ll just pray for you!
  
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  July 6, 2019 9:53am
  - godruelf
    
    That thought Reminds me of a Billy Connelly skit on alternative medicine where there was a serious accident and the response was clear the way I’m an aroma therapist.
    
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    July 6, 2019 12:11pm
  - Monique Watson
    
    First thing to tell that fuckwit Clark is that if you abolish targets then you have no benchmark to set for where you need to focus on the different cancers. There is many different cancers and the survival rate is different for all as evidenced by the simple little chart at the end of the article. Prostate and breast cancer have higher survival rates because the drugs are funded and are more effective than the old chemo/radio plan of attack.
    
    Where is the money coming for modern cancer treatment where cancer isn’t a in one in three death sentence? Is there widely available Precision Medicine? Targeted therapy? Immunotherapy ?
    I guess we’ll get a toothy grin and fobbed off by the usual suspects of the Muppet Show.
    
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    July 6, 2019 2:43pm
- Monique Watson
  
  That idiot is costing lives. It was with interest I saw this back in June:
  
  https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/no-neurosurgeon-over-long-weekend
  
  And sure enough, the first casualty:
  
  Balclutha died on June 5 in Christchurch Hospital after suffering several brain aneurysms.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/114001267/grieving-husband-calls-for-otago-hospital-to-address-surgeon-shortage
  
  As his wife lay slumped from a stroke in a Dunedin Hospital bed, John Milne yelled to a nurse “we are going to lose this girl”. Two days later she was dead.
  
  Anna Milne, 39, died on June 5 with her husband, John, and children Holly, 14, and Sam, 11, by her side. She had been taken to Christchurch Hospital from Dunedin the day before because there was no neurosurgeon on duty at the Otago hospital.
  
  The Balclutha hairdresser died after suffering several aneurysms – the first of which happened on June 3.
  
  This is a fucking disgrace. And an avoidable tragedy
  It could have been my story. Had a neurosurgeon not been on duty in Wellington when I had a massive intracranial hemorrhage in Feb 2006, I would have died and taken my unborn son with me. The biggest bitch I can make now is that I can’t wear high heels. That from paralysis. Could’a been a whole different story. Be very afraid New Zealand. You don’t know if your wife, son or daughter might not make it if things don’t change. I hope Collins rips Clark a new arsehole. Its a teaching hospital fer fucks sake. However we would appear to now have a 3rd world health system so maybe it’s fitting.
  
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  July 6, 2019 10:13am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Third world country; goes with our third rate, and falling, government
    
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    July 6, 2019 12:17pm
  - Humble Capitalist
    
    Well said Monique and the walking Communications degree had the cheek to make politics about a relative getting discharged in the night. Didnt kill him though did it?
    
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    July 6, 2019 5:07pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Knowing it all, gets in the way of doing it all. Ryall’s aim to get everyone diagnosed so far as possible in the first 60 days was reasonable. Why dump it to have another hui, extended hui, sometime never?
  
  My late wife missed the possibility of a timely diagnosis because a GP substituted his bias as against gold standard tests preferred for her evident symptoms. To add to the difficulties some hospital clinical services closed over the long NZ Xmas season. A cancer might have been prevented from going too far.
  
  The National Govt. approach of getting people seen early and into possible treatment is best. Tumors (growths that don’t setup also in the body) need the same priority. An adrenal gland with a tumor can put blood pressure at mortician levels.
  
  NZ by international standards has outstanding health care. Drug companies always have some new offering but that does not mean proven. Pharmac insists on being shown value for our dollars.
  
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  July 6, 2019 10:44am
- Southern Raider
  
  Not just cancer. Seems all metrics across the Board are falling behind in the Health system and of course first action of Cindy coming into the big chair was to order Ministry and DHBs to stop measuring and reporting.
  
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  July 6, 2019 10:46am
  - harvey wilson
    
    And that’s why I call him Uday Clark.
    
    As well as a tree counter kiwiblog should have a count of preventable deaths directly caused by his decisions .
    
    Was there any outcome of his attempt to bribe someone with a job offer not to go public with the true story of Middlemore?
    
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    July 6, 2019 11:26am
  - wreck1080
    
    Partly all the terrible quality of immigrants… they drive taxis, receive working for families, and expect state medical care.
    
    The wide gap between Per capital gdp vs aggregate gdp growth supports my argument.
    
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    July 6, 2019 11:33am
  - backster
    
    Perhaps an inquiry committee of trade unionists and ex Labour MPs could be set up to have a conversation.
    
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    July 6, 2019 2:57pm
Nukuleka

As someone who takes refuge from much of the cacophony and mindlessness of the modern age by listening to classical music courtesy of RNZ Concert I am becoming more and more irritated by the way the presenters are now pushing the Social Justice Agenda in their introductions to the music they play- it’s particularly the women, though the men aren’t entirely immune from it either. Irrelevant comments about how women musicians didn’t get the same recognition or pay in the past as men (and how that hasn’t changed is the boringly repeated meme) or veiled anti-Trump comments or sermons about climate change.

What is it about employees of a publicly-funded radio station who are paid just to introduce and play music that they feel listeners should be subjected to their relentlessly left-wing agenda?
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July 6, 2019 8:17am
- John Warren
  
  Oh no. Not Concert too. I’m a longtime refugee from commercial radio over on National, but I’m getting pretty pissed off at its increasingly strident lefty tone. You’d have thought that Concert was about music and nothing else, so to shoot it through with politicism is just awful.
  
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  July 6, 2019 9:49am
  - Lizziep
    
    Spotify is my only choice these days, saves listening to the leftist crap that RNZ and it now seems the concert programme dish out.
    
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    July 6, 2019 3:38pm
- srylands
  
  I think that with Spotify the case for RNZ Concert is weak. I listen to classical music in the car, and I get better quality with Spotify and I choose my music. Having the presenters get political would be the final straw.
  
  RNZ is an anachronism. If lefty people value it so highly they can pay for it via subscription. I won’t let Uber drivers play it. Even the “news” is now insufferable with the patronising Te Reo prequels and the weird communist stories. It is disgusting. And expensive.
  
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  July 6, 2019 9:54am
  - Fletch
    
    In the car? Is it through your phone? What sort of data plan do you have?
    
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    July 6, 2019 10:21am
    - The Feed
      
      Download playlists to your phone. No mobile data used.
      
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      July 6, 2019 10:47am
    - srylands
      
      Download Spotify to your phone at extreme high quality setting. Play through Bluetooth. Simple.
      
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      July 6, 2019 11:02am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    A major benefit of a radio station should be the programming expertise of the staff and good quality commentary from knowledgeable hosts.
    
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    July 6, 2019 11:45am
    - srylands
      
      Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Goodness.
      
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      July 6, 2019 1:05pm
    - Rob2
      
      Only asked to play music not provide their slant on political MM matters. Well, that’s how it should be.
      
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      July 6, 2019 1:15pm
    - JimBobJoe
      
      Lets just pull Miken’s statement apart:
      
      ‘programming expertise’ = seamlessly follows the party line
      
      ‘good quality commentary’ = follows the party line
      
      ‘from knowledgeable hosts’ = true believers in the party line
      
      Government paid for Radio should be for ALL citizens Miken… RNZ National and Concert are no longer that, the long march through the institutions has ensured that
      
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      July 6, 2019 1:45pm
    - Nukuleka
      
      Are you suggesting they should relay ‘good quality’ political comment? The RNZ CONCERT presenter with the little girl voice who hosted yesterday afternoon and again this morning made the same inane comment about female musicians being paid less than men in both time slots along with the same sigh and the same French phrase ‘le plus ca change’. If that isn’t a willful and stage managed politicised comment then what is! It’s unnecessary and tedious.
      
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      July 6, 2019 2:07pm
    - Jack5
      
      Some fine classical music is also available on Youtube, such as Maria Callas:
      
      https://youtu.be/B-9IvuEkreI
      
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      July 6, 2019 2:46pm
  - Rob2
    
    Go iheart radio.
    Growing and local.
    
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    July 6, 2019 1:16pm
    - Bottomless_Pit
      
      No it’s not local. It’s an American Media company.
      
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      July 6, 2019 7:13pm
artemisia

Home ownership is a good thing, who could disagree. But 21% of the $700 million debt that fronts up at budgeting services is mortgage debt, so it is a wonder there are not many more mortgagee sales.

That’s around $150 million mortgage debt a year, a lot of households, and not counting mortgagors in repayment trouble who don’t go to budgeting services. No surprise that banks are increasingly risk averse. The cost of managing recalcitrant debtors is big, and frustrating.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/113905410/budget-services-wonder-where-missing-pkeh-clients-are
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July 6, 2019 8:22am
- brett68
  
  There’s 250 billion of mortgage debt in NZ
  
  150 million is 0.06%
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12044166
  
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  July 6, 2019 9:53am
- Southern Raider
  
  In Auckland that equates to only 150 houses
  
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  July 6, 2019 10:48am
  - artemisia
    
    150 houses in Auckland by value maybe. But what if the average mortgage arrears is say $5000? Even $10,000. And lenders will be taking action well before that.
    
    As I say a lot of households in trouble, and unhappy lenders.
    
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    July 6, 2019 11:31am
    - Southern Raider
      
      No bank is going to mortgagee a house to get $5000
      
      The average would be hundreds of thousands where houses have been brought with very low deposit and only the interest payments meet
      
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      July 6, 2019 12:39pm
      - artemisia
        
        Of course banks won’t sell up for $5000. But some mortgagors will be heading to budgeting advice by then. Cannot pay the mortgage it’s a good chance other bills are not getting paid on time. Credit rating down the toilet.
        
        But banks start taking notice as soon as a monthly payment is missed. Even if the first action is pretty mild, it will ramp up quickly, as will the arrears if they are not addressed.
        
        These days with big mortgage repayments it does not take long or many life changes to be deep in debt.
        
        It is not the prime mortgage scenario but it remains a hidden issue for the most part, but with serious consequences for those impacted. All the first home buyer pressure is leading some households into uncharted financial territory, and not in a good way.
        
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        July 6, 2019 1:19pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The potential missing clients are more able and don’t need their services. It’s false that everyone is equally capable and those who fall behind are all shirkers and undeserving. Humans do not have equality in all aspects of existence.
  
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  July 6, 2019 10:56am
  - artemisia
    
    It is true that not everyone takes advantage of budgeting services. The ones that do are the fortunate ones. The ones that don’t either have an arrangement with the lender or are ostriches.
    
    Yet there are calls for LVRs to be lowered, and deposits of 5% considered for first home buyers.
    
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    July 6, 2019 11:34am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Yet there are calls for LVRs to be lowered, and deposits of 5% considered for first home buyers.
      
      That belongs to a time after a massive deflation has occurred. Asset prices at present are irrational.
      
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      July 6, 2019 1:13pm
      - peterwn
        
        In the main, home prices are driven by the cost of new builds. If the prices of existing homes are greater than the cost of new builds, then there will be more new builds and vice versa.
        To get home prices down, the cost of new builds needs to be reduced. And that means at every step along the way, not just controlling the price of bare land which in reality is a small fraction of the cost of a new home.
        There are exceptions such as low growth or negative growth areas, but as long as there is population growth, the cost of new builds underpins house values.
        
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        July 6, 2019 2:19pm
Yvette

“Do the right thing” ?
Justice Minister Andrew Little has said that UK media naming the man accused of murdering British backpacker Grace Millane is potentially jeopardising a fair trial, which could heap more misery on the grieving Millane family.

“I think it’s unfortunate the British papers have done what they’ve done. It will not do justice to the Millane family if the accused in this case gets to walk away from facing justice because somebody else has disclosed his details,” Little told media this morning.

The naming of the man, which has also happened in social media, could be used to argue that he won’t get a fair trial, Little said. [1]
December 11, 2018
_________

Defence lawyer Ian Brookie had initially sought to appeal of Judge Thomas’ decision but decided to abandon the process and instead he made a fresh application for name suppression.

He did so on the basis of fair trial grounds as a result of events between his clients first appearance and transfer to the High Court. [2]
March 8, 2019

Quod erat demonstrandum

[1] https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12174837
[2] https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/grace-millane-murder-accused-keeps-name-suppression

And yet –
“Today Google reached out with an apology and acknowledgement that fair trial rights need to be protected,” Little said in a statement.
Little praised the move by the media giant but says further work needs to be done to ensure justice is carried out fairly in the digital age.

Obviously further work is needed – because the suppressed name remains readily available.
But, it apparently is also an infringement of law to disclose where exactly or how … because it is suppressed.

Newshub says “This is a huge win for Andrew Little …”
Not really, since suppressed information is still exposed, continuing the fair trial rights issue that Little’s comments have raised, again.
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July 6, 2019 8:29am
- mikenmildagain
  
  The ‘win’ (if Newshub must reduce complex issues so) is that Google has actually responded at all. This might be a further indication of the social media giants realising that they need to do more about privacy issues, etc, or face more stringent regulation.
  
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  July 6, 2019 9:56am
  - Tall Man
    
    Would love to see the tiresome lefties response should the idiots we know as ardern and little attempt to impose legislation on an international company. I would imagine their response would involve fingers.
    
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    July 6, 2019 10:23am
  - rangitoto
    
    Respsonded by denying a service to NZ.
    
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    July 6, 2019 2:03pm
- G152
  
  Small point.
  The Internet media are an international phenomena.
  How can you use our laws to forbid some-ones post in another country?
  Or would you be happy with an Internet such as China where there is no external connection with the rest of the world ????
  
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  July 6, 2019 10:02am
- Brian McDonald
  
  There’s no chance the trial will be thrown out. The High Court or COA will direct a special order to the Jury to put it from their minds. So it is a win for the NZBORA, if but for the incompetence of google’s left hand not knowing what the right is doing.
  
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  July 6, 2019 10:03am
- Inandout
  
  Google heard a squeak from somewhere in the Southern Hemisphere and thought they had better check it out for hate speech. Then an underling was instructed to answer the squeak as it emanated from a supposed government minister.
  
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  July 6, 2019 10:20am
- KevO'Brien
  
  NZ doesn’t have extraterritorial rights over Google. Effectively the NZ govt is claiming indirect rights of global Internet censorship. There are no international arrangements for that.
  
  Many overseas news services deny NZ viewers access to the forbidden publication here but circumvention is easy and does not require help from Google.
  
  I doubt justice will be affected one iota if Google is ignored.
  
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  July 6, 2019 11:31am
- artemisia
  
  New Zealand Google Alerts next for the chop?
  
  Not many impacted by Google stopping NZ Trends, I guess they don’t care, but as I say what next?
  
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  July 6, 2019 11:37am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Can anyone explain how publication of his name will jeopardise his fair trial? The only way I can see is if he has a history he intends to conceal from the jury.
  
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  July 6, 2019 12:41pm
  - Yvette
    
    Or, can anyone explain why the police media appeal “…detectives wanted to speak to anyone who may have found an Atlas Trade, hardwood long handle, round mouth shovel since Monday last week to contact them”, indicating burial or intent to bury – thought essential to police inquiries to locate the item, or perhaps not so needed: announcing the “item was recovered by detectives … as a result of the continued examination of CCTV footage” – why that is not more prejudicial to a potential juror attitude to the case, than knowing what the suspects name is?
    
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    July 6, 2019 1:43pm
- Rob2
  
  Remove suppression.
  Removes all doubts and given that it takes a year or more these days for a trial the bias would seem to me to be minor.
  Allowing slime to avoid naming is unfair to the community.
  Who has the greatest rights?
  Slimeballs or the community?
  
  How much fraud would have been avoided if the fraudsters that have passed thru the system in the last few years had been named?
  Apart from Councils and Maori organizations, most others would have never employed them.
  
  Naming and putting in stocks seems like a good deterrent to many of these types. Back to the future would be good. Street stocks in town just might have an effect that most other hand wringing pinky crap doesn’t.
  
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  July 6, 2019 2:13pm
  - Jack5
    
    Rob2, can those of us who post under pseudonyms convincingly argue against courts’ powers to suppress the name of the accused? ?
    
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    July 6, 2019 2:52pm
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      Why yes Jack5, yes we can, as we are not charged and not on trial. Given the lefty predilection for doxxing and Antifa-stykle assaults, we are wise to remain pseudonymous for the most part. You can put the straw manikin away now 🙂
      
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      July 6, 2019 3:13pm
      - Rob2
        
        Nice answer.
        Of course, Jack5 might be a notorious member of one of the gangs, a serial murder whatever. and we still wouldn’t know.
        
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        July 6, 2019 6:07pm
- toby1845
  
  Has anyone considered that this might be a massive red herring?
  
  Are there any other cases on the near horizon (2 September, maybe) that the govt might like to keep suppressed? What if the perp in that particular case was granted permanent name suppression……..say, to protect a family member……..and the govt wanted to make sure the name wasn’t reported/posted overseas?
  
  Great line of questioning for National, if they have the balls.
  
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  July 6, 2019 10:52pm
marcw

Those climate ’emergency’ calls are getting more and more irrational. Here are the figures for the June month at Christchurch International Airport:
Average Temperature:
2019 7°C
2018 7
2017 6
2016 8
2015 7
2014 7
2013 7
2012 5
2011 8
2010 6

Average = 6.8°C

Rainfall was 82.4mm, average is 49mm.

OMG – it’s worse than we thought!!!
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July 6, 2019 8:30am
- srylands
  
  I suggest that you look at this. The evidence for a rapidly warming planet is compelling.
  
  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sciencealert.com/flawless-visualisation-distils-the-true-colour-of-climate-change-everywhere-on-earth/amp
  
  I just dont think that politicians can do anything about it. That has certainly been the experience of the last 20 years and I don’t see anything changing. If New Zealand really took “emergency” measures to reduce emissions, there would be a depression. “Emergency” would mean drastically cutting transport, agricultural, and industrial emissions. What does that look like in practice? It would be car free days, halving dairying, no more cement or gas production, banning all inefficient petrol vehicles, or high punitive taxes. Lives would be transformed. That is what “emergency” means.
  
  So what can be done? In New Zealand, nothing that makes a positive difference. Push for research on cow emissions, wait for electric vehicles to become more efficient, and embrace natural gas to power the electric cars. OOPS.
  
  Australia will need to go nuclear.
  
  China and India and the USA will determine global emissions trajectory. They will reduce emissions when available technology allows that without crimping growth and living standards. It is that simple. China is progressively adopting cleaner energy because it can’t keep poisoning its citizens.
  
  As for New Zealand we should “go for growth”. Rich countries can adapt. If we make ourselves poor, we can’t. OOPS again.
  
  Unlike most commentators here I consider climate change to be a serious problem. However I don’t agree with the prevailing policy responses.
  
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  July 6, 2019 10:13am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    srylands
    There is rhetoric. And then there is reality.
    
    1. Third World immigration (i.e. increasing those individual’s carbon emissions)
    2. National debt (i.e bringing forward consumption)
    3. Non-emitting nuclear energy (i.e. reducing carbon output)
    
    None of these items are being looked at and slashed (in the case of 1 and 2) and increased (in the case of 3). Therefore, the rhetoric does not match the practice. Therefore, ‘taking action on climate change’ (other than increased taxation and re-distribution) is not happening. It is a religion, nothing more.
    
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    July 6, 2019 10:46am
  - Southern Raider
    
    Biggest two contributions we could make almost immediately
    1) move all none renewable generation to gas: sorry can’t do that because of the Captains Call
    2) replace dairy farm pasture with GE grass: sorry can’t do that because of the Greens
    
    Everything else is irrelevant and ineffective measures eg talk fest
    
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    July 6, 2019 10:52am
    - Ruawai
      
      And stop tourism ie plane travel.
      
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      July 6, 2019 11:13am
      - Tall Man
        
        I’d be happy with stopping all air travel for politicians. Let them perform from their electorate and video conference everything else.
        
        We’d need to eliminate list mps of course 😉
        
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        July 6, 2019 11:37am
      - Southern Raider
        
        I’m talking about options that make a big difference and don’t turn us into an economic backwater
        
        Not sure how stopping tourism achieves that objective
        
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        July 6, 2019 12:24pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    I have to respectfully disagree that climate change is a serious problem. The warming if it continues ( it seems to have paused) will actually be mostly beneficial, and the atmosphere can cope with much higher than present CO2 concentrations. In fact Nasa has good evidence of the greening of the planet because of the CO2 increase. Zharkova has identified a natural forcing which will result in cooling for the next few years.
    
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    July 6, 2019 11:05am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      rightoverlabour
      The current interglacial period the Earth is experiencing is longer than average and anomolous (based on ice core samples indicating the temperatures and atmospheric composition going back many millenia, deep into the last ice age). See “Greenland Ice Cores.” That data is eye opening, to put it mildly.
      The sea level rose by about 100 METRES globally as a result of the northern ice caps melting from the Last Glacial Maximum at around 12,000 BC, down to around 7-8,000 BC. This is a scientific fact. Moreover, this rise occurred largely catastrophically, due to the two distinct phenomena called, respectively, ‘melt water pulse A’ and ‘ melt water pulse B.’ And we are supposed to be concerned about several millimetres by the end of the century? Our ancestors would laugh in our faces!
      We should be pleased about any warming that is occurring (which is a dubious proposition anyway). Any third form science student will tell you that plants thrive in warmer temperatures with higher CO2 content. Hence ‘greenhouse gas.’ Not all plants, but any that don’t make way for those that do.
      Observing data and drawing inferences is one thing (i.e. science). Formulating models, based on the observed, and extrapolating that data into the future is NOT science.
      
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      July 6, 2019 11:43am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        You don’t believe in any predictive powers for the scientific method?
        
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        July 6, 2019 12:45pm
      - rightoverlabour
        
        Reply to milenmild… Ask the Nasa scientists what they think of the models. You see if a model predicts a scenario and the scenario eventuates, the model is robust and can be used to predict. Unfortunatly the models are way off the actual situation with respect to climate so they are worth shit. https://www.therightclimatestuff.com/
        
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        July 6, 2019 1:15pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        mikenmildagain
        Inductive inference is never a logically invalid rule of inference, because the premises (i.e. observation statements) do not entail the conclusion (theoretical statements). Scientific theories cannot be verified by positive results, only falsified by sufficient disconfirming instances. Purportedly ‘sound scientific theories’ are regularly replaced by those that better explain and account for the observed evidence. That is how the scientific method proceeds, in a self-correcting manner. Therefore, any prediction that goes beyond actually empirically observed data is never certain, because those predictions are necessarily based on a finite data set.
        
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        July 6, 2019 1:30pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        EDIT: “never a logically VALID rule of inference”
        
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        July 6, 2019 1:38pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        To many, climate models are not what they may think they are. They are composites of mathematical equations trying to express the weather at defined points in the future. When we ask about next weeks weather based on computations how reliable are the forecasts?–they are at their limit.
        
        The UNIPCC, the climate change proponents, have themselves expressly said in their Third Assessment Report that they could not predict the future climate: the weather is a mathematical “chaotic” system. A very small change to the inputs of chaotic systems produce large unexpected irrational outcomes.
        
        Models are also “tuned”. A simple equation like 2x = y has the “parameter” of value 2. The output is sensible and predictable–not chaotic. If x has the value of 100, y has the value of 200. If the parameter is tuned to the value 44, y becomes 88. Now take a system of many equations and consider the tweaking of the parameters. One famous physicist has said that with 4 parameters he could describe an elephant and with a 5th waggle its trunk.
        
        The models are not scientific in any way as they are parameterised to produce the outputs consonant with the political requirements.
        
        Mathematics is further affronted by having other models compute data to fill in for the lack of observations over a large part of the earth’s surface. Further, errors of numerical accuracy occur with the multitude of calculations and their corrections are propagated throughout. Another mathematical no-no is the 40+ models have their outputs collectively averaged. Is not the average of error itself in error?
        A final test is to examine the IPCC model predictions against actual measurements. FAIL.
        
        There are actual scientists beavering away at watching over our climate. They in general are trying to reconcile the lack of warming over the past 20+ years with solar activity. Warming helps food production. Going into a Grand Solar Minimum would be a proper concern
        The money is going out of carbon credits where Al Gore made his.
        
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        July 6, 2019 2:09pm
    - Paulus
      
      Need to stop those blood Volcanoes from spouting.
      Stromboli the other day pushes as much global warming out in a day than New Zealand does in a year.
      
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      July 6, 2019 1:29pm
  - srylands
    
    I should have added. Many developing countries don’t give a shit about emissions. But they see the UNFCCC as a vehicle to transfer money from rich countries to poor countries under the climate change banner. It would be interesting to see a retrospective study of what has happened to all the money and whether it was effectively and efficiently spent on climate change mitigation and adaptation.
    
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    July 6, 2019 11:48am
  - Billy Collins
    
    That visualisation seems to disprove global warming more than affirm it. It shows that temperatures were getting colder from 1971 to the 80s, then started warming.
    
    How long before 71 did the cooling start occurring? And how do we know it won’t cool again soon?
    
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    July 6, 2019 5:28pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Note the location: Christchurch International Airport!
  
  Airports are notable worldwide for providing high temperature readings unsuitable as a general measure.
  
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  July 6, 2019 11:35am
  - srylands
    
    I was at Christchurch Airport last night. It was freezing.
    
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    July 6, 2019 11:50am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Bet you wern’t at the back end of a jet or close to one where some thermometers have been seen to have been placed.
      
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      July 6, 2019 2:29pm
Don the Kiwi

8.35 and nothing.
Goodbye.
8 10
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July 6, 2019 8:36am
- mikenmildagain
  
  OMG, a snowflake melted because he had to wait 30 minutes for a moderator!
  
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  July 6, 2019 9:57am
- jcuk
  
  I was before you SORRY 🙂 But Moderator removed my greeting to all first up today.
  
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  July 6, 2019 11:23am
  - Tall Man
    
    So he should ;).. we can’t have any frivolity while our country is being raped by an incompetent coalition of liars and non achievers.
    
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    July 6, 2019 11:39am
jcuk

hello all1
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July 6, 2019 8:47am
Hugh Pavletich

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
NEW ZEALAND HOUSING & RESTORED PROSPERITY: When are they going to START learning about Greater Christchurch’s leading performance … restoring hope and prosperity ? …

Rents in Wellington are rising so strongly they are closing in on Auckland, with average Auckland rent now just 5% higher than Wellington average … Greg Ninness … Interest Co NZ

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/100553/rents-wellington-are-rising-so-strongly-they-are-closing-auckland

… extract …

… Modest rental growth in Christchurch

Rental growth in Christchurch has been at very modest levels for the last two years.

In the second quarter of this year the average rent in Christchurch was up just 1.2% compared to the second quarter of last year, which was half the rate of increase over the previous 12 months.

Christchurch’s average rent of $381 a week was lower than the average rent in any of the North Island’s rental districts except New Plymouth, Palmerston North and Whanganui. … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
… Have you checked the latest REINZ May yoy price trends for Christchurch City, Waimakariri and Selwyn ? …

https://reinz.co.nz/residential-property-data-gallery

… and too … calculated from the May consents … extrapolated to annual figures, the ‘consents rates per 1000 population per annum’ (standard industry measure … refer graphs 5 & 6 http://www.performanceurbanplanning.org/2017%20Information.html ) nationally, Christchurch, Waimakariri and Selwyn … and compare these with the latest May figures from the ABS (Australian Bureau of Statistics) ? …

https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/building-consents-issued-may-2019

Greater Christchurch is the leading major urban centre in New Zealand restoring affordability …

… Why are other urban centres throughout New Zealand such slow learners ?
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July 6, 2019 8:53am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Expanded version of above at …
  
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/07/general_debate_5_july_2019.html/comment-page-1#comment-2519124
  
  The Greater Christchurch ‘supply lesson’ can no longer be ignored by politicians and other urban areas / local authorities throughout the country.
  
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  July 6, 2019 10:01am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The forced unplanned expansion of Christchurch has left a ruined city with outliers.
    
    Welcome to the world of logical planning and earthquakes. Farm land opened up hastily may be a bit cheaper but Christchurch may never recover.
    
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    July 6, 2019 11:39am
    - Rob2
      
      Who wants to live in the City of the Dammed?
      Always been awful.
      
      2 5
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      July 6, 2019 2:18pm
      - Jack5
        
        You never tell us where you live, Rob2.
        
        Rotovegas? Papatoetoe?
        
        2 1
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        July 6, 2019 2:50pm
    - Hugh Pavletich
      
      KevO’Brien … As Greater Christchurch is becoming increasingly affordable across the residential and commercial sector, it is becoming the economic powerhouse of New Zealand.
      
      Do make a point of reading closely my comprehensive post (the one on this thread is very much the shortened version) at the end of yesterdays KB GD thread … here is the link again …
      
      https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/07/general_debate_5_july_2019.html/comment-page-1#comment-2519124
      
      As an veteran commercial property developer myself, I am very optimistic about Greater Christchurch now.
      
      People and businesses will increasingly flock to it because of its increasing affordability and competitiveness.
      
      It will gut other loser outfits that have lost control of their costs. And going forward, its going to happen rather fast.
      
      There will always be winners and losers in life of course. Whats new ?
      
      I trust my comprehensive post is helpful.
      
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      July 6, 2019 5:31pm
    - Rob2
      
      Jack5
      
      You never tell us where you live, Rob2.
      
      Rotovegas? Papatoetoe?
      
      In the sunny climes of the Bay of Plenty.
      
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      July 6, 2019 6:09pm
- Joely Doe
  
  Logged in just to down tick this…
  
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  July 6, 2019 10:23am
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Far more importantly, in the ‘flight to affordability’ ( refer 2019 section PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org ) the increasingly well informed buying public ‘downtick’ housing and land speculators …
    
    … and too … as mortgage trends illustrate … housing speculators are ‘fleeing to the hills …
    
    First-home buyers bigger part of housing market than investors for first time since records began … Susan Edmunds … Stuff New Zealand
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/113849539/firsthome-buyers-bigger-part-of-housing-market-than-investors-for-first-time-since-records-began?cid=app-iPad
    
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    July 6, 2019 10:38am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The investors see the writing on the wall that the COL is yet to visit.
      
      First home buyers have hope from overly low faux interest rates. They may be in for a horrible surprise over the next year. Negative interest rates are an oxymoron and cannot continue. Their unwinding will be a real economic roller coaster. The game is ending. The longer it continues the greater the damage.
      
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      July 6, 2019 11:47am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    The cold winter nights must just fly by at Casa Pavletich
    
    Worst.Dinner.Guest.Ever.
    
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    July 6, 2019 10:51am
- toby1845
  
  Reported as spam. Mods, please do something about Palov’s crap.
  
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  July 6, 2019 10:58am
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    Way back early 2015, lawyer and former politician Stephen Franks explained very clearly why the RMA is fatally flawed legislation (and a few other things beside !) …
    
    Banal business naivete on politics (and the RMA and Councils) … Stephen Franks blog
    
    http://www.stephenfranks.co.nz/banal-business-naivete-on-politics-and-councils/
    
    For the life of me … I just can’t understand why Nationals Housing Spokesperson (and lawyer) is embarrassingly promoting the silly idea that more tinkering with the RMA will solve the housing problem.
    
    She really should know better.
    
    At the time of the release of this year’s Demographia Housing Survey, I explained why this approach is nonsense, within a NewstalkZB interview with Mike Yardley (near the end) …
    
    Government needs to act quickly to fix housing market … Mike Yardley discusses with Hugh Pavletich … NewstalkZB
    
    https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/audio/hugh-pavletich-kiwibuild-needs-a-revamp-to-fix-the-housing-market/
    
    Sadly … Judith is way way out of her depth on RMA / housing issues.
    
    Why hasn’t National got a credible spokesperson on these issues ?
    
    If the National Party can’t do housing properly, it will sadly and deservedly remain a permanent fixture on the Opposition benches … which would make this old Tory very sad indeed.
    
    Housing should be a ‘core competency’ of the National Party.
    
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    July 6, 2019 12:02pm
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Hugh – if you were half as informed as you claim to be, you would be well aware that Judith Collins is currently undertaking a complete rewrite of the RMA in an effort to produce legislation that works for everyone. It is my understanding that a discussion document will be released later this year, which will form the basis of National’s RMA policy for next year’s election.
      
      Unlike Labour, National is using its time in the wilderness of opposition to develop policy so that when they are re-elected, they can hit the ground running, not wait for years with endless working groups, reviews and inquiries.
      
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      July 6, 2019 12:37pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        John Stuart … Thank you for your comment.
        
        With all due respects, this approach by Judith Collins (which I was well aware of) wont work.
        
        It is just cart before the horse stuff. And making it worse … behind closed doors.
        
        I made it clear with Mike Yardley (link above) that it must be a 3 step process … led by basic structural changes (land supply and proper infrastructure debt financing … something both Labour and National should agree on)… then culture … and out of that the law to mirror the culture.
        
        The law can only work if it mirrors the culture.
        
        We are actually seeing this happen in Greater Christchurch … in large measure thanks to the lead of the smaller (and therefore functional) Councils of Waimak and Selwyn. Go research the numbers as I have set out within the lead post on this thread (accessible in full on yesterdays GD thread at bottom).
        
        Why is the current urban land use legislative framework working pretty well (it would be way better with basic structural changes) for Selwyn and Waimak … but not for the basket case bureaucratically bloated Christchurch Council ?
        
        Didn’t we lean anything from the Palmer / Upton top down RMA failure ?
        
        And too the top down Michael Basset 1989 forced local government amalgamation fiasco … the root of the housing affordability problem … as bloated Councils lost control of the cots and therefore the capacity to meet their infrastructure responsibilities.
        
        John … if there is a problem … its always a good idea to follow the money first !
        
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        July 6, 2019 1:08pm
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        And there is your problem [Deleted – Mod] Pavletich, so one eyed that you are incapable of reading what is in front of you
        
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        July 6, 2019 3:48pm
      - ex-golfer
        
        Who is John Stuart?
        Didn’t he host a late night show on American Television?
        
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        July 6, 2019 9:24pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      “Banal business naivete on politics (and the RMA and Councils) … Stephen Franks blog
      
      http://www.stephenfranks.co.nz/banal-business-naivete-on-politics-and-councils/”.
      
      I draw the attention of Kiwibloggers to my reply to Stephen Franks’ naïve and flawed suggestion, i.e., one-quarter of councils retiring each year (see point 3) of his response to Roger Strong, under ‘Comments’).
      
      To make my position very clear – local councils should be elected at-large, by STV (as with Dunedin (14) and Palmerston North (15) cities). Only then can the elected representatives of each of the significant sections (or “parties and sectors”) of our “local” societies have a true mandate to advocate for their respective positions.
      
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      July 6, 2019 8:43pm
Tauhei Notts

First at 9.02 a.m. ?
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July 6, 2019 9:02am
rightoverlabour

I read Valentina Zharkova’s recently published paper. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-45584-3 In it she has a graph of the temperature rise of .5C over the last century or so, with the oscillations that show the cooling during the 1960s which is taken from http://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation.aspx?paperid=3217 The IPCC alarmists have always claimed that the only way to explain the warming this century is to attribute it to the rise in CO2. Her paper destroys the fundamental cornerstone of the IPCC reports, as it gives us a credible, measurable, statistically relevant explanation for the warming that has been observed.
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July 6, 2019 9:03am
- Liberty
  
  The theory that a plant food is responsible for global warming is crap.
  It is astonishing on how so called bright people who tend to be pinkos are sucked in.
  The earth’s position to the sun is far more critical to the earth’s atmosphere than a few farting cows in NZ.
  
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  July 6, 2019 12:42pm
igm

When are taxpayers going to be rid of this apparition?
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/07/nz-court-rules-kim-dotcom-can-be-extradited-to-us-on-copyright-charges/
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July 6, 2019 9:05am
- Liberty
  
  He won’t be going anywhere. He has too many friends in high places.
  Even if the courts rules he has to go.
  The final decision is the Minister.
  The deportation report will be conveniently buried for months.
  Then late on a Friday before a parliamentary recess.
  on the last page of the Auckland island express.
  There will be no deportation due to an obscure clause In a UN convention.
  
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  July 6, 2019 1:08pm
  - igm
    
    Like Sroubek . . . is there something the public are not privy to?
    Looks a little dodgy doesn’t it!
    
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    July 6, 2019 4:03pm
  - sooty
    
    Too many Labour pollies trotted out to the mansion to sit at his knee!
    
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    July 6, 2019 4:38pm
kevn

Hello. Anybody there?
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July 6, 2019 9:15am
Lee C

Will the gun confiscation policy lose the next election for Ardern?
36 2
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July 6, 2019 9:19am
- rightoverlabour
  
  That and an awareness that they have achieved virtually none of their election promises (other than to stop measuring stuff). Incompetent fools.
  
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  July 6, 2019 9:21am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Hope so, but other things might as well.
  
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  July 6, 2019 9:23am
- SGA
  
  Would many of those upset by the gun policy likely to be voting Greens and Labour anyway? Would those losses be offset by votes gained from centerists in favour of the policy? How would that play for NZF?
  
  It’s easy to make the mistake that what seems important to us seems as important to everybody else (even if we think it should be).
  
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  July 6, 2019 9:25am
  - Tall Man
    
    Actually young man…. 🙂
    
    A few of our neighbours are annoying green voters and the bulk own firearms. Only one has been caught out by the legislation as currently in place but all, at various times, have expressed a little dissatisfaction with ardern due to the lies she has told and most now regard the “promises” made during the campaign as nothing more than empty promises…. But I call them lies 😉
    
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    July 6, 2019 10:04am
    - SGA
      
      So which are they voting for next election, Tall Man. ACT or National? (which is Lee C’s question).
      
      In my experience, the large majority of New Zealanders don’t spend a lot of time feeling strongly about the ban on in military-style semi-automatic weapons. In my opinion, and unlike what Lee C believes, it’s not going to be a major factor in the next election. But who knows …
      
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      July 6, 2019 10:36am
      - toby1845
        
        SGA, in my experience even those who supported the firearms ban are appalled at the degree to which the COL has f@cked it the implementation process.
        
        Still, at least it gives me an opportunity to point out their other monumental f@ck-ups, like KiwiNonBuild, roadside births, increasing poverty, trees not being planted, the UN Migration Accord, carbon emissions, working groups……….
        
        Then I get on to Sroubekgate and the Labour Party Groper. Fun times for all!!!!!!
        
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        July 6, 2019 11:08am
      - Tall Man
        
        Surprisingly at one of our social gatherings, one of the neighbours commented that they were green voters but had reconsidered as “while they would like to be green, you have to be sensible about”.
        
        The other two greenies are as dumb as dog dirt, don’t tend their land at all but can “cure” cancer with water…. especially the cancer that using Roundup causes. Their utter stupidity actually turns people away from their cause.
        
        How will everyone vote next year, no idea as there is still a lot of water to flow under the bridge.
        
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        July 6, 2019 11:33am
      - mortis
        
        This will have consequences, for National. They are being abandoned by large numbers of voters resulting in chaotic division of the right. They need to drop the pretense of being principled and suck up to the flip flopping middle. Those National voters who can’t handle it can vote Act knowing they will strengthen the right and get consistent policy in all areas.
        
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        July 6, 2019 8:11pm
      - GJM
        
        It is not(just) a ban on military style semi automatics. Probably 80-90% of those affected are non mssa semi automatics, like the SKS, or tube magazine rifles like lever action cowboy guns, and 70 year old bolt action or pump action rabbit guns. If they had read the submissions, the Pollies might have realized this, unless it was the intention. The media are blatantly biased on this topic, especially Stuff. More lies than an Ardern speech.
        
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        July 6, 2019 8:38pm
- mandk
  
  It’s an issue that some people feel very passionate about, but for most folk it is hardly on the radar.
  
  In any case, it would be easy to present it as a measure that will help to stop another massacre like Christchurch – even if it would do no such thing.
  
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  July 6, 2019 9:26am
- Gravelroad
  
  Lee C – no, don’t think so.
  NZ is now a soft, urbanised country and it is town and city voters who determine elections under an MMP system.
  Despite occasional hand wringing about gang firearm activity, no one really cares about them unless they are directly affected.
  Farming and rural opinion and aspirations count for nothing with the CoL and those who hang on the anti growth agenda.
  If Ms Ardern is still the PM next year, I expect the CoL to bolt in. Too many beneficiaries of all kinds getting more and more handouts and “kindness” for them to risk killing off the golden goose.
  
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  July 6, 2019 9:32am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I am expecting a route in favour of National as in 1975.
    The COL incompetence has already reached legendary levels and they have another 14 months to further mess NZ up.
    The People may well be in the streets by then.
    The GFC is arriving and our novice Min. of Finance will be powerless to deal with the downturn in our terms of trade.
    
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    July 6, 2019 12:00pm
    - Tony Stuart
      
      I presume you mean “rout” Kev. Even so, I don’t see that happening. As much as disliked what Sir Robert Muldoon became as PM, in 1975 he was a force the like of which i hadn’t seen before or since in New Zealand politics. His election meetings were great entertainment as he savaged Bill Rowling and other Labour Ministers, but people don’t go out to Town Hall meetings any more.
      
      I do however sense that the political tide is turning, and Jacinda Ardern is going to have to call on all her skills to stop the tide going out completely on Labour.
      
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      July 6, 2019 12:44pm
      - freethinker
        
        The tide probably is turning but National need to show people before they get wet and so far I am more than disappointed.
        
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        July 6, 2019 1:37pm
- Skinny White Boy
  
  I believe so, Stuart Nash is ‘delivering’ the next election to the opposition by being:
  1. Tough on law abiding voters who own firearms
  2. Soft on Gangs, who also own firearms
  Add to this the daily omni-shambles of Kiwibuild, Oranga Tamariki, Wellbeing, Road Toll, NZTA, DHBs, Immigration, Winz, UN Compact, Taxes, FingerGate, etc There are not many voters unaffected by the COL. Read the latest comments on Facebook and Newshub poll results, if in any doubt.
  
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  July 6, 2019 9:37am
- John Warren
  
  I may be wrong but my impression is that most of those negatively impacted by the gun thing weren’t Labour voters anyway.
  
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  July 6, 2019 9:44am
  - Tall Man
    
    See above.
    
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    July 6, 2019 10:10am
    - John Warren
      
      Moderation delays meant I posted before yours appeared, Tall Man. I’ll admit some surprise to your anecdote – all the gun-totin’ hunting fishing types I know are flannel-clad rural Canterbury farming types who’d be more likely to shoot Lanour candidates than vote for them.
      
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      July 6, 2019 10:34am
      - SGA
        
        Likewise, John, but who knows, maybe there’s a whole swag of MSSA-owning Green voters out there. I’d be surprised, but I’ve been surprised before.
        
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        July 6, 2019 11:03am
      - Tall Man
        
        We have those around as well John but where we are it’s a mix of trendy greenies playing at being farmers on their 5-10 acres, real farmers and a few like us that just like looking at the forest we have planted in the middle of our acreage.
        
        We also have a well spread, politically speaking, membership at the bowling club and a lot of the older chaps and chappesses are now muttering about “ardern” and these have been long term labour voters.
        
        As rural owners, the bulk around here own firearms and don’t see it as something special just a normal thing and only one I know is affected by the new regs and by coincidence, he and his wife are “movie making” people so ardern’s mutterings, now rescinded, have annoyed them a tad as well.
        
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        July 6, 2019 11:21am
      - Tall Man
        
        https://times-age.co.nz/gun-owner-makes-stand/
        
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        July 6, 2019 11:42am
    - Rob2
      
      Tall Man.
      I can remember when you need a gun like that just to control the rabbits in the Wairarapa. Used to see the hillside moving with them. same with the river flats. Million of the buggers.
      
      Used to stop the old commer truck and lean across the bonnet and shoot them one after the other. so many it made no difference.
      
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      July 6, 2019 2:35pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Same here. As a kid we all had 12 – 15 shot .22s, more if you used “shorts”. Rabbit shooting was the only time I was allowed to use a semi.
        
        The silly thing is that if you modify a 12 or 15 round tube mag to comply, you can still chuck in more than 10 rounds of .22 shorts.
        
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        July 6, 2019 3:33pm
  - mortis
    
    True, but they are no longer National voters. National are acting like Labours faults will lead to its return to power but this is not certain. If disgruntled voters are spread among the minor parties the left remains the largest block.
    
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    July 6, 2019 10:29pm
- MCos
  
  Undoubtedly.
  I just left a hipster cafe (safe space) in downtown Mangere Bridge packed with Labour supporters and all they were talking about was the treacherous ban on semi automatic guns and the appalling buy back scheme.
  
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  July 6, 2019 9:46am
  - Tall Man
    
    Sarc….. I assume.
    
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    July 6, 2019 10:12am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      MCos needs reminding that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.
      
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      July 6, 2019 12:46pm
    - Lizziep
      
      I hope not sarcastic surely, they must have seen the lack of any intelligence within the col and the destruction of our country as we knew it.
      Promises what were/are they? Oh who cares says Jacinda. The col is the worst government NZ has ever had. The worst thing is in the past 14 months or so they have wrecked this country what the hell will it be like in another 14 or so months? I shudder to think.
      
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      July 6, 2019 3:59pm
  - John Warren
    
    Surely you jest.
    
    8 0
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    July 6, 2019 10:35am
- brett68
  
  Not if Bridges is still leader.
  
  6 17
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  July 6, 2019 10:04am
- G152
  
  Amused to see they’re using a modified log splitter to bend barrels…
  
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  July 6, 2019 10:05am
- The King
  
  Never hand in your guns, doubt me? ask a jew.
  
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  July 6, 2019 10:26am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Cool story, bro.
    Got any more Nazi-related myths for us?
    
    2 27
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    July 6, 2019 11:50am
    - The King
      
      What’s the myth? Bolsheviks took all the guns before they took the grain.
      
      Eh? Comrade…
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rsxFaq6Ig
      
      8 0
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      July 6, 2019 2:17pm
  - tf78
    
    I saw a joke type cartoon which basically said if the government wants your guns – you need them.
    
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    July 6, 2019 6:36pm
- stephieboy
  
  Lee C , unlikely as Simon and the Nats largely supported it!
  
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  July 6, 2019 3:03pm
Fletch

A Border Patrol Chief debunks AOC’s deliberate lies in a video post.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=617800708715359

I don’t know how she, a member of Congress, can make such baldfaced lies. I know these people lie, but come on. This is so over the top.
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July 6, 2019 9:22am
- John Warren
  
  Like Golriz, AOC gets by on sheer temerity, and the existence of conspiracy-crazy lefties who want to believe the utter bullshit she emits. You’d wonder that she has any credibility left at all after the exposure of her lies and staged photo-ops, but there she is, still at it. Palpably stupid, and astonishingly arrogant with it.
  
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  July 6, 2019 9:59am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Pity that Mini AOC played by 9 year old Ava Martinez is now no more. The cowardly left doxxed her and family. Death threats etc. Social media accounts now closed. Sad, because Mini AOC was fun, and there is so much material.
    
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    July 6, 2019 11:05am
    - Rich Prick
      
      That’s the left in their full glory. They can’t cope with a 9 year old having a bit of fun.
      
      15 0
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      July 6, 2019 1:30pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        The left showing once again they are born without a sense of humour
        
        9 0
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        July 6, 2019 3:32pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Someone showed AOC a video of the NZ Labour Party
  
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  July 6, 2019 11:01am
Jack5

Did the Brotherhood intervene, or was it a Christian group that stepped in?

The Southland Masonic Centre, one of the more impressive and historic buildings in Invercargill, has been bought by a New Zealand firm.

Earlier this year it was announced that the lodge building had been sold to a Muslim group, but, after the announcement, this sale fell through, a Stuff report says.

A Tauranga “property investment and development company” (that withheld its name) said in a statement to the Southland Times that it intended to keep the building operating largely as it had in the past, with the hall available for private functions.

It added that it “hoped to be closely connected with the government in the future, to do things that are pleasing and blessed by God, to glorify God and benefit the people, and to be a new highlight for foreign tourists”.

Freemasonry membership, which is male only, has been hit hard by society changes. In the far south, and probably other parts of rural New Zealand, little buildings that were lodges where Masons met continue to be sold off for re-use. Fewer wives are prepared to have their men doing a circuit of meetings in regional lodges on week nights.

The Government has been directing refugees to cool (let’s be kind) Southland, most notoriously a people from tropical Colombia.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/113954713/southland-masonic-centre-sold-to-north-island-company
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July 6, 2019 9:27am
- Durden
  
  The times they are a-changing. And Freemasons are too. E.g. their transgender policy – a wet sop to PC progressives.
  
  https://www.ugle.org.uk/gender-reassignment-policy
  
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  July 6, 2019 10:18am
  - Inandout
    
    Durden, I have had friends who were Masons and with the one exception were decent guys. At one time belonging to the lodge was very helpful in career matters, but times have changed. Holyoake was once a member and of course Duke of Edinburgh as well. The lodges were once home to some of the top people in NZ.
    
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    July 6, 2019 11:39am
    - Fletch
      
      Who holds back the electric car, who makes Steve Gutenberg a star..?”
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXtQMz1RGNw
      
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      July 6, 2019 2:36pm
mikenmildagain

If you didn’t get enough Americana on the fourth of July, don’t panic: today is the US’s National Fried Chicken Day.
For the historically minded though, on this day in 1777, the Continental forces abandoned Fort Ticonderaga, retreating further south into New York where they could rely on air support.
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July 6, 2019 10:07am
igm

I hope to hell ratepayers and taxpayers are not paying for any of this.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/114001735/palmerston-north-mosque-first-in-new-zealand-to-receive-security-upgrades

Goes to show they definitely have something to hide. Christian churches do not require this security . . . I wonder why!
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July 6, 2019 10:47am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  igm ,” I wonder why? ” Much like the Jews and Blacks Muslims have been and continue to be the recipients of vile hate directed at them.
  
  I wonder why?
  
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  July 6, 2019 11:27am
  - Tall Man
    
    “I wonder why?”
    
    Because there are arseholes just like you out there steffy girl.
    
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    July 6, 2019 11:43am
  - The King
    
    “Lets move to NZ so we can be oppressed and hated”
    
    13 0
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    July 6, 2019 12:09pm
  - igm
    
    Do not even think of engaging me in a discussion.
    
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    July 6, 2019 12:54pm
- MCos
  
  Let’s not be disingenuous.
  I would have thought it was blindingly obvious why NZ mosques are ratcheting up security.
  Note that in OZ the government has made available $55mil for any religious organization to apply for for security in the wake of the Chch terror attack
  https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.jewishnews.net.au/55m-funding-boost-for-religious-security/87768/amp
  
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  July 6, 2019 12:35pm
  - The King
    
    Wheres my security from mosques that train Al Qaeda terrorists in my country? Or do i just wait for the inevitable attack and light candles and pray?
    
    12 1
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    July 6, 2019 2:24pm
  - toby1845
    
    Another f@ck up. What is the science behind the $55m? Where are the measures?
    
    Or did Robertson simply pluck a number out of his not inconsiderable behind?
    
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    July 6, 2019 11:10pm
Durden

Janet Rice an Australian Green senator moved from her usual position to sit behind the One Nation Senator Malcolm Roberts during a speech he gave about the Adani mines issue to “mock” him. Who is the idiot here. She and our own Ron “the finger” Marks will make great friends.

https://twitter.com/iborgward/status/1146905375456677888
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July 6, 2019 10:49am
- stephieboy
  
  Durden , Janet Rice ?
  
  Who cares!
  
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  July 6, 2019 11:32am
  - Inandout
    
    ‘Who cares’, question or statement? That Green thing has as many brains as a dead kangaroo.
    
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    July 6, 2019 1:38pm
- toby1845
  
  My email to Janet Rice today:
  
  “I can’t believe the good people of Australia could elect such an idiot. You are seriously f@cking stupid. Honestly, I thought Jacinda Ardern was bad, but you have marginally trumped her. Congratulations!”
  
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  July 6, 2019 11:13pm
Durden

Wallace Chapman on RNZ believes he cool calling NZ Aotearoa. Listen to his arrogance at 11m 30s in the following audio

https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018702878

What do you think RNZ’s policy should be?
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July 6, 2019 11:00am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Wallace Chapman is clearly an idiot and if RNZ wasn’t a lefty-driven echo chamber they’d get rid of him.
  Oh, your question – RNZ’s policy should be to refer to the country by the name it has on the map.
  
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  July 6, 2019 11:06am
  - Swifty
    
    I caught him on RNZ this week while he was hosting The Panel.
    
    Absolutely blatant supporting of both Labour and Twyford when discussing matters with Michelle Boag.
    
    Not even an attempt at balance.
    
    I’ve been an almost daily RNZ listener for more than 30 years and I have to say it’s really getting out of hand now.
    
    EVERYTHING is pro-left, pro-big government, pro-progressive, pro-more public funding of arts, pro-socialism, pro-more govt spending, pro-living wage etc etc etc and without alternative arguments being expressed.
    
    It really has become the propaganda outlet for leftism – and on the public dime.
    
    Either balance is restored or National should shut it down.
    
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    July 6, 2019 11:42am
    - Paulus
      
      Chapman has always been a left wing idiot even before his current role.
      I never listened on a Sunday morning to him an no longer do now.
      You know what to expect from him and his programme.
      
      16 1
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      July 6, 2019 1:38pm
      - Swifty
        
        Agreed.
        
        I always knew him to be a lefty, but it was the blatancy that got me.
        
        E.g. when Boag has on Twyford about missing the Kiwibuild meeting Chapman was quick to jump in with ‘Oh, he had another meeting to go to.’
        
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        July 6, 2019 2:46pm
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Yep, even Marcus Lush is beginning to sound smart when Chapman is the yardstick. . . .
        
        3 0
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        July 6, 2019 4:07pm
    - Rob2
      
      You will never leave. You have been brainwashed sufficiently that you won’t.
      
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      July 6, 2019 2:40pm
      - Swifty
        
        Sorry, what?
        
        1 1
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        July 6, 2019 3:05pm
  - Jack5
    
    Radio NZ takes the same illiterate, PC path as Stuff.
    
    New Zealand has two official spoken languages: English, the current world lingua franca, and Maori.
    
    When Radio New Zealand is broadcasting in English then logically it should refer to “New Zealand”. In its Maori language broadcasts it should use “Aotearoa”. Similarly with our newspapers.
    
    Instead they bastardise English into a regional Pidgin language by mixing Maori and English words.
    
    It’s a sort of PC version of “conspicuous consumption”- conspicuous liberalism. For this, in English, you use Maori words to display your level of political correctness, and perhaps, and probably falsely, suggest you are fluent in Maori.
    
    A twin language approach is the better course. But what’s happening, especially in name changes by the Maori-dominated board that controls place names, is an attempt to foist Maori terms into English, rather than names to be used separately in each language.
    
    A sceptic might see this as Maori language supporters throwing in the towel on trying to save the language, and instead striving to create a Maori-English Pidgin.
    
    As for Chapman: he’s very light weight intellectually compared with Chris Laidlaw, the Rhodes scholar Leftist he succeeded on Red Radio’s Sunday morning programme.
    
    Laidlaw’s Leftism was tempered by his background as a former All Black and a Labour MP. Someone may be able to confirm that Laidlaw numbered among his ancestors the Confederate general, Stonewall Jackson.
    
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    July 6, 2019 12:14pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      You seem to think it is unusual, or even wrong, for the English language to take on loan words from other languages.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_of_M%C4%81ori_origin
      
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      July 6, 2019 12:57pm
      - Jack5
        
        “Take on” loan words?
        
        Languages co-opt words usually to describe things or actions they have no native word for.
        
        Maori words and versions of place names are being pressed into local English for political purposes. There is a campaign to supplant English terms with Maori terms in NZ English. If the campaign succeeds with enough, NZ English becomes a pidgin tongue.
        
        NZ Pidgin, if sizeable enough and popular enough, would kill Maori language, but it wouldn’t affect English beyond that of the 1.25 per cent of English’s native speakers who live in NZ.
        
        9 1
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        July 6, 2019 2:20pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Do you have any evidence to support your theory that people using Maori loan words in New Zealand English will kill off te reo?
        
        3 6
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        July 6, 2019 2:33pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Mainly nouns naming things, often unique and often not ascribed as a maori word incorrectly…
        
        “Ngaire: Hawaiian Name Meaning – silver fern
        Origin – Hawaii
        I like our Polynesian relations whakapapa to my name Ngaire, 3 years ago when I googled my name the origin of my name came from Greek mythology.
        I feel women who are named this are very beautiful, radiant beings.”
        
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        July 6, 2019 3:09pm
      - Tall Man
        
        “NZ Pidgin, if sizeable enough and popular enough, would kill Maori language”
        
        You can’t kill a dead language……
        
        3 1
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        July 6, 2019 3:14pm
    - MH
      
      but what are we supposed to do with all these macrons we were given ?
      
      5 0
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      July 6, 2019 1:59pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Send them back to France as a token from Ardern.
        
        7 1
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        July 6, 2019 2:44pm
    - MH
      
      and a school mate of wild bill Clinton
      
      3 0
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      July 6, 2019 2:02pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Unfortunately showing off their Maori they show their ignorance by dropping the grammar. English and Maori do not mix well together . Their word building methods are different as are their grammars.
      
      7 0
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      July 6, 2019 2:42pm
    - ex-golfer
      
      English is not an official language of NZ.
      Our two official languages are Maori and sign-language.
      NZ Firsts Clayton Mitchell has a private members bill waiting in the wings to add English as an official language.
      
      https://www.hrc.co.nz/enquiries-and-complaints/faqs/new-zealands-official-languages/
      
      https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/bills-and-laws/proposed-members-bills/document/52HOH_MEMBILL071_1/english-an-official-language-of-new-zealand-bill
      
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      July 6, 2019 9:39pm
- Inandout
  
  If that is the Chapman who fronted ‘Back Benchers’ then he is a real wally. I seem to recall he didn’t have a drivers license; so Green and insipid.
  
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  July 6, 2019 11:28am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Durden, why not refer it to as Aotearoa?
  
  The Maori got there before Abel Tasman, therefore, have naming rights!
  
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  July 6, 2019 11:29am
  - Tall Man
    
    Which maori steffy?
    
    Who said they actually named it?
    
    Still, another fairy tale that suckers suckers like you.
    
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    July 6, 2019 11:45am
  - Kabull
    
    But, Stephie, they didn’t call it Aotearoa, did they. The word is reputedly a construct from mid-late 19th century. The first settlers had no concept of these two islands as a single country.
    
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    July 6, 2019 11:52am
  - Jack5
    
    Stephie X, Maori have naming rights in Maori, but not necessarily in English.
    
    How’s the “Stephieboy” syndicate going, by the way? There is less variety in posts these days (punctuation, idiom and in content).
    
    Have some of the volunteers gone home to Stephiestan?
    
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    July 6, 2019 12:18pm
    - stephieboy
      
      Jack5 , the facts are simple. The Maori arrived long before Abel Tasman and they called their land Aotearoa.
      
      Shall we compromise and formally call our land Aotearoa New Zealand !
      
      Kabull,
      
      “The word is reputedly a construct from mid-late 19th century.”
      
      “reputedly? ??
      
      2 21
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      July 6, 2019 1:13pm
      - Swifty
        
        ‘….and they called their land Aotearoa.’
        
        This is misleading.
        
        ‘The use of Aotearoa to refer to the whole country is a post-colonial custom. Before the period of contact with Europeans, Māori did not have a commonly-used name for the entire New Zealand archipelago. As late as the 1890s, the name was used in reference to the North Island only; an example of this usage appeared in the first issue of Huia Tangata Kotahi, a Māori-language newspaper published on February 8, 1893. It contained the dedication on the front page, “He perehi tenei mo nga iwi Maori, katoa, o Aotearoa, mete Waipounamu”,[6] meaning “This is a publication for the Māori tribes of the North Island and the South Island”.’
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aotearoa
        
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        July 6, 2019 1:48pm
      - Jack5
        
        “Our land” Stephie X?
        
        We’ll let you have that when all your syndicate members get full citizenship.
        
        12 1
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        July 6, 2019 2:22pm
      - rightoverlabour
        
        I don’t give a flying Fuck what the Maori call this place. In English it’s New Zealand. Just as we speak if Italy while Italians say Italia, Germany, Deutschland, etc etc.
        
        14 1
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        July 6, 2019 2:23pm
  - toby1845
    
    In that case, stephie, why did the 1835 Declaration Of The United Chiefs of NZ, and Te Tiriti, use the words ‘Niu Tureni’?
    
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    July 6, 2019 11:18pm
rightoverlabour

I had a look at your link. What data are they using for the warming, and what are the incremental steps? Are they actual temps, or statistical deviations from the norm. Unfortunatly, the data that is used is iffy, as is its representation. Temperature fluctations are mostly with 10ths of a degree and the Southern Hemisphere is hopelessly under represented. Areas with out data re filled in using statistical methods. Most of it is crap. Read this https://archive.org/stream/ThePoliticallyIncorrectGuideToClimateChange_201903/The%20Politically%20Incorrect%20Guide%20to%20Climate%20Change_djvu.txt and watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh-DNNIUjKU
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July 6, 2019 11:30am
slightlyrighty

I know many of you here are Trump Supporters, but you have to acknowledge that something is missing in his education if he ad-libs that revolutionary soldiers took the airports during the War of Independence.

To blame it on the Teleprompter failing only doubles down on the gaffe. Even the most ardent supporter of Trump must recognize this as a facepalm moment.
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July 6, 2019 11:31am
- Tall Man
  
  So what?
  
  Why should we care about it in NZ when we have someone who is supposed to be a leader but performs a “face palm” moment on a daily basis.
  
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  July 6, 2019 11:47am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I’m just waiting for a good Trumpistas explanation, a la ‘covfefe’ or ‘bigly’.
  
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  July 6, 2019 11:53am
  - Rob2
    
    https://ysb.co.nz/i-know-who-5-is-going-to-be/
    
    2 0
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    July 6, 2019 6:23pm
- The King
  
  Shocking, actual human makes mistakes.
  
  This is literally nothing, but if you want show me on the doll where the big meanie Trump touched you.
  
  13 4
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  July 6, 2019 12:12pm
- Wired-one
  
  Yes, let’s pick on one small mistake in his hour long speech…This is why Trumps support is rock solid. People are sick and tired of fake outrage, microaggressions and PC bullshit.
  
  20 3
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  July 6, 2019 12:30pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Rock solid at consistently low approval ratings.
    
    5 30
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    July 6, 2019 12:51pm
    - Rob2
      
      Like you then?
      oh dear !
      
      13 4
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      July 6, 2019 2:44pm
  - Inandout
    
    A rock solid economy. Go Trump for a second term.
    
    13 1
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    July 6, 2019 1:40pm
- MH
  
  it just ballooned out of all propanesion
  i now await moderation like Lily The Pink
  
  3 0
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  July 6, 2019 2:09pm
- Fletch
  
  Still, Obama believed there was an “intercontinental railroad”, and referred to corpsmen (“corpse men”), and got the number of states wrong. The media let it slide, of course.
  
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  July 6, 2019 2:39pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    At least Trump hasn’t worn a tan suit, ordered Dijon mustard, or saluted anyone with a coffee cup. Those things were plainly as anti-American as a ‘terrorist fist-bump’.
    
    5 12
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    July 6, 2019 3:07pm
- Cobolt24
  
  Trump blames the teleprompter but I doubt that too.
  
  He’s not the first to make such a gaffe, Obama said there’s 57 states in a video during his 2008 campaign for example.
  .
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16Tu3kR77NE
  
  Doesn’t mean anything, just a slip up.
  
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  July 6, 2019 7:26pm
toby1845

‘Sunny’ (a.k.a. fine, with a sun, but still cold) day here in Wellington. I’m taking my Tiaki Kororareka (a.k.a. Jack Russell) up Maungawikitoria (a.k.a. Mount Victoria) to check out the totaras planned by the Council a few weeks ago.

I’m hoping for three things:

1. The rain to hold off.
2. That I can find Neve’s totara.
3. That pooch can ‘hold on’ until 2 is achieved.

Wish me luck…..
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July 6, 2019 11:32am
- MH
  
  Podocarpus totara
  
  3 0
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  July 6, 2019 3:10pm
wreck1080

Media are such liars…

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/110117825/a-rat-hole-not-worth-a-dollar-the-auckland-motel-profiting-off-the-housing-crisis

“When you hear $1250 a week for a room, you may envisage an opulent master suite in a glitzy inner-city Auckland apartment.”

Pray tell,lefty idiot journalists, where can I find an opulent master suite apartment in Auckland cbd for $180 a night?
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July 6, 2019 11:40am
- Tony Stuart
  
  The complaint is from Auckland Action Against Poverty (AAAP), who are masters of media manipulation, and hawking poverty stories to the media. AAAP is also responsible for the story in yesterday’s Herald about people queueing at WINZ from 2.30am. I would take the contents of both with a liberal serving of salt.
  
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  July 6, 2019 3:19pm
  - John Warren
    
    I’m deeply suspicious of that group. If you take a look at their website you’ll realise they are nothing more than thinly disguised communist agitators. The spokesman Ricardo Menendez March is deeply in cahoots with, among others, Marama Davidson. Take a look at his FB page and you’ll see him sing the praises of the oil and gas exploration ban while jetting off to Mexico to visit his family. Says it all, really. What does he actually do for a living? Is he paid a nice tidy sinecure by AAAP? In which case who funds them to fund him?
    
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    July 6, 2019 3:49pm
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Indeed John. I see our Mexican friend (born in Tijuana) was Green Party candidate for Mt Roskill in 2017.
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/central-leader/95637190/mt-roskill-green-candidate-could-be-making-history-this-election
      
      11 0
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      July 6, 2019 3:57pm
    - Southern Raider
      
      Can anyone here explain
      1) why this Mexican is in NZ
      2) why is is solving real poverty in his own country
      
      Most of these do gooders seem to like to pick nice and safe western countries to then ply their communist ideals
      
      10 0
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      July 6, 2019 6:46pm
      - John Warren
        
        I’ll make a wild guess that he’s married to a Kiwi, the former Miss March? No problem, I’m married to a foreigner myself. But I wish he had left his communist doctrine in Mexico. Learning that he stood for the Greens reinforces my conviction that they are really the Reds.
        
        I can’t help it, there’s something that sticks in my craw about people like him and Genter coming here and trying to change the country. They’re first and loudest to wail about the evil effects of colonialism, yet they’re mini versions of it themselves, turning up uninvited to preach to the benighted natives, and commandeering their resources (i.e. public money).
        
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        July 6, 2019 9:02pm
  - Hollyfield
    
    I happen to drive to work each day past a WINZ office in a not great part of Auckland. At 8.30am there might be as many as 2-3 people waiting.
    
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    July 6, 2019 6:36pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Too early… too hard to sober up before 11 am I think.
      
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      July 6, 2019 9:05pm
The King

“Woman Who Invited Migrants to Camp In Her Garden Wants Them to Leave”

When the virtue signal on facebook meets reality…

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/07/05/woman-who-invited-migrants-her-garden-now-demands-they-leave/
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July 6, 2019 12:13pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  In the West and Far East, no one has known true hardship for over two generations since the late 1940s.
  This has bred a generation or two of softies.
  
  Hardship is good for you.*
  
  * Be too hard and people give up and lose hope.
  * Be too soft and people become entitled.
  It’s a delicate balance.
  
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  July 6, 2019 5:32pm
- Komata
  
  The king@1213
  
  So she’s no longer a ‘liberal’ with stars in her eyes about ‘helping the poor oppressed ‘refugees’.
  
  One has to wonder why this might be…
  
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  July 6, 2019 9:39pm
Wired-one

Very impressive performance by Paul Goldsmith on The Nation this morning. Hopefully he gets hold of the countries cheque book sooner rather than later.
20 2
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July 6, 2019 12:40pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Goldsmith makes his predecessor Amy Adams look like the flopped sponge cake that she is.
  Letting her go was a masterstroke by Bridges.
  
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  July 6, 2019 1:21pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    But what if he sucks too much support away from Seymour in Epsom?
    
    8 1
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    July 6, 2019 1:23pm
    - Rob2
      
      Nats will put him high on the list and not worry too much about Epsom.
      
      12 2
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      July 6, 2019 2:46pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        If he’s going to be one of their top guys, the party will hardly let him stand in an electorate reserved for the ACT poodle. So it’ll be list only for Goldsmith unless National has got tired of waiting for ACT to demonstrate that it has any chance of providing more than one tame MP.
        
        3 20
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        July 6, 2019 3:28pm
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        Maybe they should put him in Botany and put a bunny in Epsom.
        
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        July 6, 2019 7:30pm
      - Tall Man
        
        “and put a bunny in Epsom”
        
        Sorry Captn… ardern’s in the “other” party……….
        
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        July 6, 2019 9:04pm
Maggie Pie

Fab sunny weather in Auckland – although a wee bit nipples earlier on 🙂
Went and picked up my partners mum this morning to take her shopping in Remmers.
She wanted to go to the Paper-Plus store to see if they would exchange the ‘Get Well Soon’ card she bought yesterday for one that said, ‘In your sad Bereavement’
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July 6, 2019 1:40pm
- Jack5
  
  Maggie, our host, DPF, is in bed with his lungs chocka with gunk and you cheer him up with this? ?
  
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  July 6, 2019 2:26pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Fair dues Jack5; DPF would see the funny side in that, I reckon 😀
    
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    July 6, 2019 2:29pm
- Waymad
  
  Best variant on a ‘Get Well Soon’ card was one which added ‘I can only be Nice for so long…’
  
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  July 6, 2019 3:16pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  ” although a wee bit nipples earlier on”
  
  I am not familiar with this thing I am reading…
  
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  July 6, 2019 5:34pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Oh come on sensei ! Coldest morning of the year yet according to MY barometer.
    
    https://i.imgflip.com/351mxr.jpg
    
    7 0
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    July 6, 2019 7:31pm
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Maggie,
      Do you have a barometer that tells the temperature?
      My thermometer does that. My barometer tells me the air pressure.
      But you have a very special barometer according to that picture.
      
      5 0
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      July 6, 2019 9:32pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Enuff to get the mercury rising, Capt’n? 🙂
        
        2 0
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        July 6, 2019 10:14pm
      - RalphT
        
        Here was me thinking that the saying “tough titty” was telling someone to take it on the chin, when all along it’s been a weather forecasting term….
        
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        July 6, 2019 10:32pm
GoVege

One of the Lawson quins has sadly died.
The article implies their parents separated due to media interest and paparazzi.
I read a biography of Ann, and the truth was while she was caring for her huge brood, her “best friend” was carrying on with her hubby.
When Ann’s husband was reluctant to abandon his wife and 6 young children, “bestie” forced the issue by moving out of her own house and leaving her own hubby.
Ann ended up with the creep who bashed and molested the children and murdered Ann.
When he tracked her down, armed with a shotgun, he came with enough bullets to kill all the kids, but Ann sacrificed her own life for her children by going outside to meet him.
What an incredible woman.
So sad her children have been so harmed by the selfish and evil people they had the misfortune to encounter.
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July 6, 2019 2:34pm
rererangihirihiri

Near half-way through Chris Lee’s ‘The Billion Dollar Bonfire’. About the debacle surrounding South Canterbury Finance and Hubbard.
Some of the Crown and Treasury’s decision making are cringe worthy. What an utter disgrace.
Anyone else read it?
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July 6, 2019 2:50pm
rightoverlabour

A video for Stephieboy, MikenMildagain, Martin Wilson, The whole Labour Party, Greens and NZ First. Enjoy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFL5NoM9GVE Yes, you are what this video is about.
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July 6, 2019 3:31pm
John Warren

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/aaap/pages/28/attachments/original/1505690321/End_colonial_capitalism.jpg?1505690321

Er… and then what?
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July 6, 2019 3:55pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  It applies particularly to persons in the habit of describing themselves as very stable geniuses.
  
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  July 6, 2019 5:17pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Well that’s a bunch of meaningless words again mikey.
    
    You often excel at proving you really are a tosser. This is one of those times.
    
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    July 6, 2019 5:56pm
  - John Warren
    
    I hope you didn’t do yourself an injury trying to stretch that far to make a connection to Trump, milky.
    
    10 1
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    July 6, 2019 6:07pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Sorry John, I made a mistake. I meant that comment to be under rightoverlabour’s 3.31 pm link.
      
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      July 6, 2019 7:14pm
      - John Warren
        
        Apology accepted. Makes more sense in the correct context.
        
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        July 6, 2019 8:14pm
Happychappy

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/education/114006348/government-to-build-new-schools-and-classrooms-for-100000-students
Why is it that Labour like to use the figure 100,000 a number that has not treated them kindly. Ten and a half years to build enough class rooms for 100,000
Students is poking your neck out when you can’t build a thousand houses when have a housing crisis.
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July 6, 2019 4:51pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  You think the government should be building houses and schools?
  
  1 8
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  July 6, 2019 5:15pm
  - sooty
    
    Yep! Why ain’t they?
    
    4 1
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    July 6, 2019 6:05pm
    - Rob2
      
      Well, they had a go and failed biggly.
      So why not schools?
      Truth be known these were already planned under the Nats.
      we will never be told by the ginger nut.
      
      7 2
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      July 6, 2019 6:29pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Government solving everything by building stuff is only good when the national party is in power?
        
        3 9
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        July 6, 2019 7:07pm
rightoverlabour

Something to upset the traditional view of New Zealand History. Watch it and make your own mind up….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8la4EQH8CU
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July 6, 2019 5:15pm
kevn

@Happy… Yep, CoL target credibility is zero = 0
hipkins has so much on-the-go throwing all the balls in the air, it will all backfire.
He has misguided confidence in the public service.
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July 6, 2019 5:22pm
rightoverlabour

On a similar vane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqci_tXGn94
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July 6, 2019 5:48pm
igm

So the Fairfax LIBGT appeasers have decided to have a go at Rugby through Hansen. This is the second attempt in one day (did not even have the guts to insert a byline).
They got an arse kick over Israel Filau and his wife, now they are adopting another line in their hatred of Rugby and brilliant males that play it (not even white ones)!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/114049254/steve-hansen-backs-sevu-reece-says-domestic-violence-is-not-a-gender-thing
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July 6, 2019 5:53pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  I listened to the Jim Kayes interview of Steve Hansen, and it was a belter. Hansen was open and candid in his comments, not just about Reece but also the likes of SBW and Akira Ioane.
  
  He’s dead right about Reece too. The guy made a massive mistake, but pleaded guilty, hasn’t tried to minimise it, and has undergone anger management training together with other things. Being in the Crusaders set-up has been good for him, and he has had tremendous support around him. I believe in second chances (having had a few myself over the years), and hopefully Reece has learned from his mistake, and won’t repeat it. If he does, I will have little sympathy for him.
  
  Hansen’s comments went much further than what is quoted in a very isolated headline; he made some very pertinent comments about young men being the product of the environment they grow up in, and about the duty of parents to model acceptable behaviour to their children. A lot of people don’t realise that Hansen was a cop before he became a professional rugby coach, so he will have seen far more domestic violence at the coalface than most.
  
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  July 6, 2019 6:34pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  I don’t wish to minimise the experience of males who have suffered domestic violence, or other forms of abuse. But domestic violence in New Zealand is overwhelmingly inflicted by males on females and children.
  
  3 2
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  July 6, 2019 7:19pm
  - Tall Man
    
    And gross stupidity is inflicted by loony lefties on the normal people of New Zealand.
    
    4 1
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    July 6, 2019 8:56pm
Rob2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8la4EQH8CU
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July 6, 2019 8:31pm
Komata

MM@1919

Re: ‘But domestic violence in New Zealand is overwhelmingly inflicted by males on females and children.

Observation of and experience with Pacific Island families would seem to indicate otherwise…

Some here will know to what I am referring.
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July 6, 2019 9:49pm

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