General Debate 1 August 2019

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Maggie Pie

BREAKING:

Prime Minister Jacinda Adhern to visit New Zealand
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August 1, 2019 8:01am
- oldgolfer
  
  I gather there will be no press conferences.
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:24am
  - sooty
    
    Maggie, you are so funny!
    But you tell us the truth!
    Even when she’s here, she’s not.
    Always off visiting some kindy, somewhere!
    I wish she would just go to work!
    
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    August 1, 2019 8:37am
    - niggly
      
      She’s back tomorrow but Parliament doesn’t sit on Fridays – whaddaya think, will she be off to a school and kindergarten to talk about climate change affecting “everyday NZers” in Tokelau? 😉
      
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      August 1, 2019 8:55am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      She has never worked in her life, why start now?
      
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      August 1, 2019 8:58am
      - igm
        
        Oh, but she has produced a baby, unmarried — the Labour way.
        
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        August 1, 2019 12:58pm
    - tf78
      
      sooty – I wish she would just go!
      
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      August 1, 2019 9:58am
      - Jack5
        
        Is she coming to see the BAYBEE?
        
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        August 1, 2019 12:00pm
- igm
  
  There would be very few left to greet her . . . only her sycophantic bludgers!
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:38am
  - backster
    
    Igm… Ritchie Hardporn ,Karel Stroubel (under escort) and a few other birds of a feather maybe.
    
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    August 1, 2019 9:19am
- Tall Man
  
  “Prime Minister ardern to visit New Zealand schools and kindergartens”.
  
  Fixed it for you Maggie
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:41am
- All_on_Red
  
  Here’s the Press Release for her visit
  https://mobile.twitter.com/democracymum/status/1156474719962447872
  H/T Sofia @pulpyfictorious
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:46am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Just a quick stop on the way to Tuvalu. 757 and a C130. What is in the C130?
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:48am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    So the chosen PM says that Tokelau is going to go under water due to ‘climate change’. Then in the next breath she says that we need to build them an airport.
    Is there no limit to the stupidity of this woman?
    
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    August 1, 2019 9:48am
    - Lizziep
      
      She is so brainless what is her thought patterns? None oh that’s right she used to wrap fish and chips for a living. Hardly can we expect her to make a choice about this sort of thing.
      
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      August 1, 2019 10:09am
    - sooty
      
      The airport is just so she can visit Daddy easy.
      The climate change is not going to happen soon or the $5Mil power station will be underwater!
      Whats Daddy got for a residence there or does he oversee from afar?
      
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      August 1, 2019 10:17am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        Daddy will be onto his next gig before an airport could be built.
        
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        August 1, 2019 11:04am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        I believe The Administrator is based in Apia where there are other offices.
        Tokelau has a land area of 1,220 hectares spread over 3 small islands. Lake Rotorua is over 6x larger and Lake Taupo 50x.
        Population about 1400.
        
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        August 1, 2019 11:42am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Yep, she measured the water level with her climate change rule, then measured it again 6 hours later. It was rising at such a rate that Tokelau would be submerged in 30 days.
      Apologies to original author
      
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      August 1, 2019 10:33am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Bit like the Maldives…
      For years we were told the Maldives were disappearing under rising seas…
      
      now it has 3 International airports.
      https://www.google.com/maps/search/maldives+international+airports/@3.0270953,70.8585318,6.64z
      
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      August 1, 2019 10:49am
  - KiWombat
    
    “What is in the C130?”
    Jethro’s tinnie !
    
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    August 1, 2019 11:38am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  For those who missed my posts last night..
  
  Ardern’s part-time, show-pony status as reported in The Guardian
  
  “Since taking office in 2017, Ardern has frequently been accused of being more focused on the international stage than domestic affairs. This perception has been exacerbated by her global popularity and frequent media appearances, including one in the upcoming September issue of Vogue.”
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:59am
  - niggly
    
    Heh … in addition to that perhaps the Guardian could have added:
    
    “Since becoming an MP in 2008, Ardern has frequently been accused of being more focused on achieving celebrity status than domestic affairs. This perception has been exacerbated by her notable lack of any achievement in her 9 years in Opposition and frequent soft interview media appearances in the likes of No Idea, Women’s Day, Woman’s Weekly and now she has “made it” by appearing twice now in Vogue magazine.
    
    Ardern doesn’t do hard interviews as evidenced by her banning questions from Australian journalists and threats issued to NZ media last week to not ask her questions related to Maori unrest and protests.”
    
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    August 1, 2019 9:19am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Brilliant Maggie Pie. You should have won the pie contest!!
  
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  August 1, 2019 9:29am
- kowtow
  
  Mags
  
  Your post got a shout out on Peter Williams on magic talk a few minutes ago !
  
  The big time beckons , fame at last .
  
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  August 1, 2019 10:11am
- rangitoto
  
  I saw that from Democracymum’s twitter post last night:
  
  https://twitter.com/democracymum/status/1156474719962447872
  
  “”The Prime Minister will take a break from her busy global tour of virtue signalling”
  
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  August 1, 2019 10:27am
- madamezucchininz
  
  …your post got a mention on radio this morning by Peter Williams who thought it was very funny…..
  
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  August 1, 2019 10:34am
- Biscuit
  
  Wow, Maggie, the first post in a long time that I’ve seen attract 100 upticks.
  
  Bet the buffoon who downticked you is feeling a tad sheepish, eh?
  
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  August 1, 2019 1:13pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    …or goatish 🙂
    
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    August 1, 2019 2:19pm
- John Warren
  
  https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2392844350999656&id=2059481014335993&sfnsn=mo
  
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  August 1, 2019 3:14pm
- Greg Ettridge
  
  I would like to ask the Dickhead that voted this statement down, arriving back tonight, then leaving for Tuvalu mid week, surely this is a classic true statement. She is just a show pony with no regard to good governance in NZ.
  The media love party is about to fall apart.
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:35pm
Maggy Wassilieff

This will put the cat amongst the kereru.

A Whanganui migrant advocate says local Maori should concentrate on dragging themselves out of poverty rather than worrying about the small number of refugees due to be resettled in the city
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018706711/whanganui-migrant-advocate-rebukes-iwi-leader-over-comments
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August 1, 2019 8:04am
- Swifty
  
  Conveniently overlooking the fact that every job and house etc taken by a refugee means one less for the locals…….
  
  Oh and rents are skyrocketing…..
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:16am
  - mic
    
    Not to mention family reunification-even more houses and other associated costs.
    
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    August 1, 2019 8:45am
  - wreck1080
    
    I wonder if the refugees will thrive compared to the maori.
    
    Different attitudes.
    
    Wanganui though? I’d last a day before dying of boredom.
    
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    August 1, 2019 8:56am
    - Wangas Feral
      
      I don’t know whether to agree or be offended.
      
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      August 1, 2019 9:28am
      - wreck1080
        
        I was waiting for a torrent of downticks from outraged wanganui-ites.
        
        People say my town is so boring (Tauranga), and they are right in some ways but i don’t care either.
        
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        August 1, 2019 11:17am
    - igm
      
      Seems these fakeugees are quite a crafty mob after seeing he way they are greasing around Maori in Ihumatao. Seems to be birds of a feather . . . !
      
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      August 1, 2019 9:51am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Cue KS 🙂
      
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      August 1, 2019 10:58am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Whanganui is going gangbusters at the moment wreck. House prices are increasing, the population is growing after ten years of stagnation, we’ve got a fantastic arts community and cafe scene, and if you need the stimulation of somewhere larger, there are plenty of options within a couple of hours. The skifields on Mt Ruapehu are little more than an hour away (and got a foot of snow last night), and Lake Taupo isn’t much further.
      
      Don’t tell anyone though, or every bugger will want to move here!
      
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      August 1, 2019 11:31am
  - Biscuit
    
    Indeed, Swifty.
    
    I see Ardern boasting about lifting umpteen thousands ‘out of poverty’ when common sense tells us that the folk involved are renters and have seen most of their extra dosh go straight into paying rocketing rent increases.
    
    Year of delivery, ha!
    
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    August 1, 2019 1:15pm
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      She did not say poverty.
      
      You’re welcome.
      
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      August 1, 2019 5:51pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The wisdom of a govt created Muslim migrant enclave in W(h)anganui is yet to be tested.
  A similar allocation of mainly Maori and other ethnics to Porirua East in the distant past built that ghetto.
  
  Careful lest govt. policies don’t cause human blight.
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:28am
  - Tall Man
    
    Singapore has a policy that is designed to stop racial enclaves developing.
    
    “But seen in the cold light of day, analysts TODAY interviewed agree that these measures have generally achieved the aim of averting “racial enclaves” — an issue that remains relevant today, with global events signalling increased resentment towards minorities and non-citizens.
    Read more at https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/policies-shaped-multiracial-nation“
    
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    August 1, 2019 8:46am
- Happychappy
  
  I am not Ken Mair fan but he is right with what he says , you can’t just keep dumping refugees where you want and you can’t just keep on bringing them in ,National and Labour have to wake up to the fact that they have to change this migration pact agreement and listen to NZer’s before it does irreversible damage to NZ.
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:32am
  - MCos
    
    I see the bloke that won best pie is a Cambodian refugee.
    
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    August 1, 2019 9:07am
    - Wangas Feral
      
      Yes – he got off his behind and opened a bakery. Most Muslim refugees remain on welfare basically forever – same in every western country with welfare where they settle.
      
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      August 1, 2019 9:29am
      - sooty
        
        He’s not from sandland.
        
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        August 1, 2019 10:19am
      - MCos
        
        As of 31-March 2018 there were about fifteen hundred refugees on a benefit who had arrived in the last ten years.
        https://www.msd.govt.nz/documents/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/official-information-responses/2018/june/r-20180618-statistics-regarding-refugees-on-benefits-in-nz.pdf
        Seeing as there is a quota of 750/yr that would represent 20%.
        
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        August 1, 2019 1:40pm
    - Lizziep
      
      Why I ask would anyone down tick this MCos? Great for him and well done.
      
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      August 1, 2019 10:12am
    - DigNap15
      
      I’d rather a whole lot of immigrants from Cambodia or Korea than India and especially any muslims.
      
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      August 1, 2019 11:28am
    - igm
      
      Cambodians are “refugees” — not “fakeugees” our unelected PM greases to daily.
      
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      August 1, 2019 11:29am
    - Sacha
      
      WAS a Cambodian refugee. He’s been a proper Kiwi for a couple of decades.
      
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      August 1, 2019 11:44am
  - backster
    
    What dies Golriz MP think?
    
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    August 1, 2019 9:24am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    National restricted assisted refugee migration to what was practical. Mangere was setup for orientation, language training and introduction to ongoing carers. That was a rationed program with the community working to welcome those who were to make their future homes here.
    
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    August 1, 2019 11:52am
    - Jack5
      
      True, Kev O’Brien, but John Key did cave in and increase the quota when a radio journo (name now forgotten) broke into the headlines by championing the beginning of the Middle East and African invasion of Europe.
      
      Regardless, NZ’s refugee intake has been shamefully biased against Christians in trouble. Christians have been virtually shut out of the UN-led Middle East refugee resettlement (see link below to an article by a respected NZ authority on the Middle East).
      
      Even in Burma/Myanmar, the plight of persecuted Christians who had sided with the Allies in World War 2 has been pretty much ignored for decades, while the UN prodded the West into opening doors when Burma/Myanmar recently began persecuting its Rohingya Muslim minority.
      
      How Christian refugees have been discriminated against:
      
      https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/column/iraqs-christian-refugees-face-double-discrimination-3748
      
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      August 1, 2019 12:12pm
      - Twinkletoes
        
        It is what one would expect seeing that Islamic nations comprise about 30% of the UN.
        
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        August 1, 2019 1:16pm
      - MCos
        
        Here’s an article that might interest you. Apparently Christians from Myanmar make up the the single biggest intake to America.
        https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-05-04/biggest-group-refugees-us-christians-myanmar
        
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        August 1, 2019 3:30pm
      - Justitia
        
        Yes the discrimination against Christian refugees by New Zealand is an absolute travesty. They are facing persecution and even genocide yet the NZIS comments it can’t discriminate on the grounds of religion so is bound to take those mainly Muslim displaced people the deeply corrupt UN puts forward. I have some familiarity with our refugee programme and I can tell you this is absolute bollocks on a number of levels. We can take whomever we want to give priority to and have done so in the past.
        
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        August 1, 2019 4:30pm
  - The King
    
    When will we stop being the daddy of all brown people?
    
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    August 1, 2019 4:39pm
- kowtow
  
  Now had a honkey said what Mair said …….
  
  …….by golly the media storm would be furious .
  
  What does one conclude from their silence when a person of colour makes such statements ?
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:42am
The Feed

To think these people teach children.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/114628665/teachers-arent-getting-1500-lump-sum-they-expected

Erm, yes. You pay tax on your income. Secondly, if you have more income, you pay more tax. Thirdly, if you’re a socialist, as many teachers profess to being, you should be happy to pay more tax, being a high earner, as classed by the state.
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August 1, 2019 8:07am
- Swifty
  
  Heh.
  
  ‘She said the lump sum should have been paid separately instead of included with normal wages, to avoid the higher tax bracket. ‘
  
  WTF? What planet is this person on? Does she now want the tax laws rewritten to her benefit too?
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:20am
  - mark15
    
    My wife got a similar ‘bonus’ after the nurse pay review.Two months later,the union fees increased.
    
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    August 1, 2019 8:52am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    These clowns are the ones who think rich should pay for more taxes for “world class education and health services”.
    
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    August 1, 2019 9:32am
- Lizziep
  
  Frightening isn’t it The Feed? Bet they can speak Maori though.
  
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  August 1, 2019 10:13am
- JibberJabber
  
  LoL, from the comments I`ve read from Leftys on Twitter anyone with a job is Filthy Rich/Super Wealthy.
  When I pointed it out to one feral, apparently I lose the argument cos` he`s got more “followers” than me ??
  
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  August 1, 2019 12:20pm
Brian McDonald

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
From a quote on a blog by DPF yesterday. Bit a rushed post sorry:

“But there is also racism against Asian New Zealanders? Why don’t they have the same poor health statistics as Maori and Pacific NZers?”

First of all, comparing degrees of racism doesn’t deny the racism against Maori that exists but rather trys to mitigate or endorse it. Asians did not have their ancestral lands taken from them illegally in NZ, they were not transported to the South Island to work as slaves, they did not face a concentrated effort to quash their culture including their language, they were not killed and their homes and crops burnt. One has to say there is worse racism in New Zealand toward Maori that any other race, and to note that much of the racism is from white immigrants.

Looking at Ihumatoa which is topical now. It was once the food basket of Auckland where Maori successfully traded with settlers who had their eyes on the land which was taken with the power of force illegally. As with the TOW a later settlement on the Land seizure was 1 sided, the English Law applied with its inflexibility and rigid purpose. At no time have Maori been of equal ‘arms’ but that is changing now. There is the idea abroad that Maori cannot go behind the TOW or seek new settlements that will continue to be tested. No doubt the inequality of the comparable power and understanding of the Treaty partners was never equal and is not equal now so remains as something that will be tested – not least because the Crown deliberately broke the TOW relatively soon after it was signed. Ihumatoa is a recent example of confiscated land that went into the hands of the Wallace family before being ‘offered’ back to Maori at a price they could not afford – tokenism which is now argued as a benefit offered to Maori. Having land stolen, then offered back for sale at a price the party cannot afford was a further injustice to its owners. As was the Law being utilised to overturn the covenants on the potential usages of the Land. Personally, I think the Land should be returned to its owners where like other of the few saved sites of historical interest the owners might be willing for it to be visited and understood for its significant importance to the habitation of New Zealand. The Crown legislated away redress against their own law breaking and crimes against New Zealand citizens including genocide, slavery and theft. Why should Maori accept tokenism when it is Maori who have been offended against, why should they accept Laws changed to negate their opportunity for redress as they as a culture have developed an understanding of the Law that was misused against them.

It’s ironic that the less racial impact claimed to have been made against Asians overlooks that largely Asians became the market gardeners of Mangere on the same land once cultivated by Maori.
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August 1, 2019 8:08am
- slightlyrighty
  
  Brian.
  
  Its a bit disingenuous to take a statement about Health Statistics and transpose that into a debate over Land Ownership.
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:13am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    They’re related points, health, living conditions and poverty are all interlinked – so is racial marginalisation.
    
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    August 1, 2019 9:52am
- 3-coil
  
  Brian McDonald – your nasty Eurocentric racial stereotyping of Asians as “market gardeners” undermines your (already weak) thesis. Fail.
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:25am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Pyramid of oppression innit? Brown out-ranks yellow.
    
    The USA has jews for their not-really-PoC we have asians.
    
    Brian clearly has some unresolved white-guilt nonsense going on.
    
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    August 1, 2019 8:41am
  - Tall Man
    
    Well put. I was trying to come with something but “arsehole” kept appearing.
    
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    August 1, 2019 8:47am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      If you really feel the need to insult other people on the board – use your own name Tall Man.
      
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      August 1, 2019 10:19am
      - Tall Man
        
        No thanks, I’m good.
        
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        August 1, 2019 10:30am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        No surprise their Tall Man.
        
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        August 1, 2019 11:04am
      - Tall Man
        
        Funnily enough brian, the word arsehole kept appearing and you automatically assumed it was about you yet I was replying to someone else.
        
        Why do you think you’re an arsehole? I’m not one to argue, especially when I agree with the person’s opinion 😉
        
        I’m interested as to why you want me to post under my real name…….. Do you feel the need to pay me a visit or “dox” me or something?
        
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        August 1, 2019 3:24pm
  - MCos
    
    That whole area over to Mt Mangere used to be market gardens works by Chinese families until fairly recently.
    There’s a Chinese activity centre on gifted land on Taylor Rd that was part of this area.
    As it happens I live just along there and a few months ago was talking about this to a Chinese neighbour who’s lived in the area her whole life.
    
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    August 1, 2019 9:35am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    The Asians in Mangere were and are market gardeners, they replaced the former market gardeners who were Maori. Try to concentrate.
    
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    August 1, 2019 9:54am
    - DigNap15
      
      yes but I’m not really a fan of kumaras
      
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      August 1, 2019 11:30am
- Ford Prefect
  
  Do you also care about the plight of the Moriori. I was taught in school that the Moriori were in New Zealand before the Maori but were subsequently conquered, enslaved and even eaten by the new migrants. My teenager has never heard of them, so the history has been completely rewritten in only one generation.
  
  Do you not feel there should be some retribution by the modern day tribes to make up for the grotesque actions of the past?
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:41am
  - Tall Man
    
    History has been officially rewritten and there were no Moriori.
    
    Get with the programme or you will be “visited” for “aspirational realignment”.
    
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    August 1, 2019 8:49am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Do you know who transported Taranaki Maori to the Chathams?
    
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    August 1, 2019 9:55am
    - JibberJabber
      
      .
      
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      August 1, 2019 12:24pm
    - Jack5
      
      The Maori invaders of the Chathams, the Ngati Mutunga and Ngati Tama tribes (originally from Taranaki), either chartered or seized the ship that took them there, Brian. And this was in 1835, before the Treaty of Waitangi.
      
      There’s no way the British, or other Westerners, can be blamed for the genocide in the Chathams committed by Maori. The Maori colonisers were far, far more ruthless and brutal than British colonisers.
      
      Here’s an account of what happened to the Australian brig Rodney, which was on a trading voyage to New Zealand, and which was more or less forced to take the Maori invaders to the Chathams :
      
      The account of this as given by Te Wharepa and others, is as follows: “After her arrival, we persuaded the captain to take his boat and go with us to Somes’s Island—Matiu—where we told him we had a quantity of muka (scraped flax) and pigs. On arrival at the island we seized the crew, but did not tie the captain, telling him that we did not wish to injure him, but only desired him to take us all to the Chatham Islands; and that we would pay him well in muka and pigs, or even firearms, for doing so.
      
      The captain demurred for some time, and said ‘that the Chatham Islands were owned by King George, and that the natives were his subjects; therefore he might be called to account if he took the Maoris thither.’ Finding, however, that they were determined, and alarmed for his own safety, he assented; they then released the boat’s crew.”
      
      It does not appear clear at what time it happened that Wharepa injured permanently the hip joint of the mate,—Ferguson,—who, Wharepa’s brother said, wished to take “his tribe”—the Ngatitoa—to Chatham Islands.
      
      If the story is correct, it would give colour to the rumour, subsequently current in Sydney, that the Captain was a consenting party to taking the Maoris to the Chathams. Against this, however, is the fact that at the time when he was compelled to agree on Somes’s Island—according to Maori testimony—he was certainly unwilling to do as they desired, whatever he may have done afterwards.
      
      The source for this is an article by Shand in the Journal of the Polynesian Society:
      
      http://www.jps.auckland.ac.nz/document/Volume_1_1892/Volume_1,_No._3,_1892/The_occupation_of_the_Chatham_Islands_by_the_Maoris_in_1835%3A_Part_II_-_The_migration_of_Ngatiawa_to_Chatham_Island,_by_A._Shand,_p154-163/p1
      
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      August 1, 2019 12:30pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Gosh brian, enlighten us…….
      
      Actually don’t. We’ve all had more than enough bullshit.
      
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      August 1, 2019 8:53pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    You are, or were, misinformed. The Moriori of the Chathams were the descendants of a displaced Maori tribe from mainland NZ who fled/migrated to the Chathams several hundred years before European contact. They evolved some unique cultural adaptions in the restricted area of those islands – most importantly a creed of non-violence.
    
    Around 1835 a group of Taranaki Maori heard about them and contracted with a European ship owner to transport themselves to the Chathams with the express intention of conquering the territory. This was pre-Treaty of course, and under traditional Maori law what they did was standard practice and acceptable. They landed, easily overcame the Moriori, then killed most, enslaved the rest, and also ate a significant number of the dead and later their captives.
    
    The Moriori though were Maori from NZ, not a separate colonization group.
    
    There are one or two tantalizing hints (some disputed too) of an earlier colonization and some Maori folk tales of a “fairy folk” type of inhabitant, but nothing that would be sufficient to overturn our current understanding – not by a long chalk.
    
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    August 1, 2019 10:43am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Consistent in the early stories, I thought perhaps survivors from an earlier polynesian settlement and later assimilated in and around the Opotiki area.
      
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      August 1, 2019 11:09am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      When the tribes all arrived separately why shouldn’t the Chathams likewise have its own original direct settlers from Polynesia.
      
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      August 1, 2019 11:59am
    - Jack5
      
      Re Ed Snack’s post containing this:
      
      …. contracted with a European ship owner to transport themselves to the Chathams with the express intention of conquering the territory.
      
      Is a contract created under duress a lawful contract?
      
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      August 1, 2019 12:33pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Jack5, I was being brief. Yes, it is likely that they basically hijacked the vessel though I think they did pay the Captain for the trip in the end.
        
        Kev, I’m pretty sure that the Moriori themselves were aware that they had fled NZ and didn’t arrive directly. Not sure whether the Chathams were known by Maori and visited (it is some distance) though one presumed their existence must have been known for the group to go there.
        
        The Chathams aren’t particularly fertile or productive but they did have a large seal population and I believe that the Moriori used them as a food source. The climate is also relatively bad by NZ standards – no doubt sealskins were a necessary item of dress for much of the year.
        
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        August 1, 2019 12:43pm
- cmm
  
  Brian McDonald eh? Celtic origins probably – just like me.
  
  Like my people you probably got colonised by the Danes, the Romans, the French and lastly the bloody English.
  
  Like me, your ancestral lands were taken away many times. And your people were enslaved – really enslaved.
  
  Like me, your original language was likely ripped from your mouth and English became your mother tongue.
  
  Compared to Maori you’ve had a pretty bloody rough heritage – as have most white Kiwis.
  
  Then we traveled further – from halfway around the world and have had less time to acclimatize (27 years in my case), rather than the 500 or whatever years our Maori brothers have.
  
  Why are you and I doing better than the average Maori?
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:42am
  - Deadly pony
    
    Fascinating question. Nicholas Wade has a good crack at answering it in his book ‘Troublesome Inheritance’ (Genes, Race and Human History.)
    
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    August 1, 2019 9:00am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The history of Clan Macdonald is well known.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Donald
    
    The Route from Lord of the Isles to Destitute of Kaiti Hill is a Grand Tale of backing the losing side.
    
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    August 1, 2019 9:09am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Maggie: Culloden – Several clan leaders, angry at the lack of action, pressured Charles to issue the order to charge. When he was eventually persuaded to issue the order, the McDonalds refused, angry because they had been placed on the left flank overturning their traditional right to take the right flank
      
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      August 1, 2019 10:25am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        You have to read “No Great Mischief” by Alistair MacLeod.
        
        (It’s a Canadian Novel… tracing the story of an immigrant MacDonald family to Nova Scotia… and touches on how General Wolfe sent in the Highlanders first at the Battle of Quebec..”because it was no great mischief if they fall.”)
        
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        August 1, 2019 11:46am
    - Ed Snack
      
      That should be “Clan Ranald” rather than MacDonald. And there’s quite a few septs like McKinnon and others who are also “islemen”.
      
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      August 1, 2019 10:49am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        https://www.scotclans.com/scottish-clans/clan-macdonald-of-clanranald/ both and also Ronald
        
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        August 1, 2019 12:55pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Certainly celtic, and by marriage Maori back 4 generations. On both sides of the Maori ‘land wars.’ On the same side in 2 World Wars, Malaysia, Vietnam and so on. 2nd highest decoration in WW1 (McMahon), probably would have been VC if not for the Irish name, highest decoration in WW2 (Moana-nui) and Afghanistan (Moore) – still serving today, 4 generations after WW1 and SA. The McMahons leased land from Maori in Tapu and mined for gold, they share the same graveyard on the foreshore. I share their ability to have got on with one another, and mutual respect. Maori stood beside pakeha New Zealanders in war yet were still disadvantaged afterwards. The new generations will stand beside them as we do on the rugby fields and workplace and in the Law.
    
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    August 1, 2019 10:16am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Tapu (sacred) was where Irish might marry the English and so the name Stephens came into the family – farmers and builders from Somerset, peaceful but with a connection though the puritans to the regicide of King Charles, one family member signing the warrant but living out his life without any molestation whilst other signatories, were executed, dug up and further indignities performed upon them. The Captain of the boat who brought Hobson here to sign the treaty was a relative and his wife, a heavy drinker, would later be involved in gun running out of Sydney although from memory she suffered no major consequences for that under the law. No doubt among the signatories on the Maori side were relatives of Te Moananui the chiefly line traced from the canoe Mataatua who by peaceful settlement for the loss of a warrior in Whangarei harbour (on a stop over to buy muskets in the north) were gifted land – a pre TOW settlement that survives to this day. Of course for that settlement both sides were fully informed and used their native language uninfluenced by the Law from a Country half a world away.
      
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      August 1, 2019 10:54am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Genes. Those may have been affected over a long time by the human response to living in the tropics and perhaps other warmer places. There is natural loss of vigour and European settlers experiencing that are said to have gone “troppo”. I have seen this first hand.
    
    International IQ tests place Polynesians, including our Maori, on 85% relative to Europeans with average of 100%. Some Asians are at 105-100% and it shows in their attainments.
    IQ was established not as an inter-racial measure but one which could be used by the military and others to predict work performance. It has a long history of success for its purpose. It can reasonably predict who will attain certain academic grades or drop out of school without qualifications. Those persons at the 85% level on the European scale are not likely to get NCEA level 1.
    
    We have a problem: the average Maori or other Polynesian cannot be expected to be work ready for most occupations. However statistically half of them exceed 85% and 1/6 over 100%. They will have their higher achievers too–but less of them. Conversely the Europeans relative to the Chinese will have fewer at the same attainment levels.
    
    We have to live with the society we have. Half the young Maori and Pacific women cannot be expected to reach employment certificate level. These women become the young mothers. Care needs to be taken to foster all employment opportunities for these lower achievers. They are entitled to their dignity. Employment subsidies may even be desirable to facilitate placement. Without of the former villages their livelihoods are at risk in the race to automation. Gangs and prisons provide alternative social environments we don’t wish to foster.
    
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    August 1, 2019 12:54pm
- Jules99
  
  ‘Colonialisation’ was invented when British people were no longer prioritised for immigration and more Indians and Chinese people arrived. They suffered terrible racism not only from whites but from Maori too. Many who are inclined to be racist might give Maori a pass because of the myth that they were here first, but Asians were considered fair game. Despite this terrible treatment they have thrived in business, experience good health and stay out of prison. They don’t murder their children either.
  
  Back in the day we excused failure of some Maori (not all of course) as due racism. With Asians doing so well they had to invent something else, and that was ‘colonialisation’. Apparently things that happened 200 years ago explain why Maori don’t do well at school or have poor health outcomes. It’s nonsense of course. As a person of British ancestry can I still blame the Romans or the Normans for stealing by birth rite? Or do I take responsibility for my own behaviour?
  
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  August 1, 2019 9:06am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    You should out the figures on P importers old son.
    
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    August 1, 2019 10:17am
  - Notsofast
    
    Asian business is impregnable to NZ IRD I am reliably told by a prosecutor. Why are Shipley and Collins under black clouds for their dealings?
    In Australia Beijing puppet students are attacking the hapless Hong Kong libertarians, while the same is planned at Auckland University shortly.
    Talk about boiling a frog, that frog is New Zealand.
    The Maori are being squeezed out the bottom, that is uncontroversial, and apportioning blame is pointless. It is time to teach them fluency in reading and writing Engish before school methods destroy the opportunity, and to assure a legal self drive licence before they leave school.
    Those two measures may even cost less than the penal colonies.
    
    lol.
    
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    August 1, 2019 10:35am
    - DigNap15
      
      Yes I agree.
      Maori need to get themselves educated in our western systems.
      And forget all about iwi and hapu and haka and hangi stones.
      otherwise they will stay at the time bottom of the heap.
      And get their driving license like everyone else does.
      Studying the road code and paying for their tests.
      
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      August 1, 2019 11:33am
      - Notsofast
        
        They can’t pay for their tests, simple observation. Mike Williams understands this, but so do I.
        $100,000 a year in jail later, let us do the figures. Money is being shoveled in a ludicrous direction. At least on this message board you can get away with stating the obvious about the value of English fluency, something the Chinese understand far too late in life.
        
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        August 1, 2019 11:43am
      - MCos
        
        A Maori friend of mine beat up a kid at school because he told him to wash the colour off his face.
        Maybe that was you.
        
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        August 1, 2019 11:55am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Yay violence!
        
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        August 1, 2019 5:40pm
Happychappy

When will people like Jacinda, Andrew Little and Barry Soper wake up to the fact that no-mater what the say will not change Australia’s right to send criminals from NZ living in Australia back to NZ.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12254599
With both Jacinda and Little keeping on calling the Australian Law corrosive does not help the situation but I guess when you can’t figure out you are losing the battle maybe you are out of your depth in the position you hold.
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August 1, 2019 8:11am
- srylands
  
  “On the face of it that’s fine – provided they went there when they were old enough to know better. It’s a different story if they went there as toddlers and learnt all their bad habits there. To send them back when they’ve never had an association with this country, other than a parent being born here, is obscene.
  
  It’s simply Australia abdicating its responsibility.”
  ____________
  
  These people are living in some kind of dream world. Your nationality is what your passport says. Show me any country in the world that allows residents to adopt a nationality based on “feels”.
  
  if someone went to Australia as a “toddler” they learned all their “bad habits” from their New Zealand parents.
  
  More importantly if someone went to Australia at say 3 years old in the year 2000, they would now be 22. ALL New Zealanders who arrived in Australia before 2001 had an easy path to citizenship. They still do. So most of these criminals that went to Australia as “toddlers” could have easily acquired Australian citizenship.
  
  The stupid makes my head hurt.
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:23am
  - Happychappy
    
    Well why did Helen Clark sign it, National tried to have it changed to no avail so respected Australia’s position. Labour should have thought about the repercussions before it was agreed to.
    
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    August 1, 2019 8:40am
    - srylands
      
      Helen Clark did not have to “sign” anything. The Howard Government at the time could make any changes they wanted to the access of Australians.
      
      The background was that New Zealand had up until 2000 partially compensated Australia for welfare and other payments to New Zealanders. Australia wanted more money. The New Zealand Government did not want to pay more. And the rest is history. But to emphasise , New Zealand Government at the time did not need to “agree” to the changes. Australia said “pay us more or we will remove New Zealanders access to benefits.”
      
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      August 1, 2019 9:13am
  - cmm
    
    Crims are stupid, on average, and do not like paperwork.
    
    Can’t see them really going though the thought processes, let alone all the paperwork and paying fees to apply for Oz citizenship when they can use their NZ citizenship for free.
    
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    August 1, 2019 10:21am
    - srylands
      
      I’d go further. Many long term Australian residents could genuinely think they are “Australian”. They have no understanding of citizenship, and if they have never needed a passport it simply never enters their mind until they are served with a deportation order.
      
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      August 1, 2019 12:08pm
      - Jack5
        
        There must be about half a million people of New Zealand origin in Australia.
        
        This is from the Australian Parliamentary web site:
        
        New Zealand citizens who arrived in Australia after 26 February 2001 and who want to access certain social security payments, obtain citizenship or sponsor family members for permanent residence may only do so after applying for, and being granted, permanent residence through the migration program.
        
        With publicity in Australia as well as in New Zealand about deportation of NZ born criminals, surely New Zealanders in Australia will know about citizenship requirements.
        
        If money is the problem, perhaps the NZ Government and Maori tribes could help with a loan fund to help finance citizenship procedure. It would be cheaper than catering for the deported criminals.
        
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        August 1, 2019 12:44pm
      - srylands
        
        “surely New Zealanders in Australia will know about citizenship requirements.”
        
        You would be surprised. A New Zealander who arrives with his/her parents as an infant and grows up in Australia could, by time of adulthood, genuinely believe they are “Australian”. They just don’t think about it.
        
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        August 1, 2019 2:26pm
- srylands
  
  There might come a point where Australia cancels the trans tasman travel arrangements. And say “Now New Zealand you REALLY have something to complain about.”
  
  New Zealand young people in all occupations gain tremendous benefits from being able to work in Australia for a few years. If that goes the damage will be immense. All because we tried to look after the interests of a few thousand New Zealand criminals.
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:28am
Maggie Pie

All may not be well within the NZF caucus?
My partner was saying word on the street is that Jonesy has been in direct talks with LABOR. Watch this space…
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August 1, 2019 8:13am
- MCos
  
  I wouldn’t have thought the Aussies were particularly interested in the chap.
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:31am
- mic
  
  Is he negotiating for a list seat?
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:50am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    He’s probably negotiating for his survival as he knows NZF is on the way out.
    
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    August 1, 2019 9:07am
- septic skeptic
  
  I reckon labour has the incompetent lazy blowhard positions pretty well covered already, what else does his good self have to offer.
  
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  August 1, 2019 9:29am
WaveyDavey

“…worse racism in New Zealand toward Maori that any other race…”

Absolute toss Brian. The casual, almost universal and publicly acceptable anti-asian racism dwarfs any anti-maori sentiment in this country.

Everyone has a view, which they’re not scared to express, about “asian drivers.” Even the bloody Labour party is happy to target anyone with an asian-sounding surname.

I speak as one of those awful, racist white immigrants and I’ve experienced more anti-white sentiment from maori and pasifica than I’ve seen from white NZers to brown NZers.

That said, anyone feels comfortable to pile into asian guests, residents and citizens.
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August 1, 2019 8:16am
- WaveyDavey
  
  Further, the white racism I’ve seen has come from home-grown NZers. Given that the majority of white immigrants come from the UK I’d point out that we kind of stopped being racist several decades ago.
  
  The UK is one of the most tolerant and accepting countries in the world (various surveys have shown this) to the point where 1 in 10 people say they are in a mixed-race relationship and right now there are more than a million mixed-race children being raised there.
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:38am
- MCos
  
  My wife is Thai and hasn’t experienced any racism, nor have I as a whitey.
  Then again we spend most of our time in Mangere Bridge/Onehunga area which has a plethora of ethnicities.
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:49am
  - wreck1080
    
    I experienced racism in Europe, in a predominantly white country (guess where haha).
    
    Some locals overheard us speaking english, and started yelling ‘fucking foreigners’ at us.
    
    We looked just like them too ha ha. But, you get morons in every country.
    
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    August 1, 2019 8:59am
  - Raphael
    
    As an ex Saffa I have been on the receiving end of a very drunken racist tirade by a Maori neighbour.
    
    He was a nice enough chap when sober, but when drunk (which was frequent until he drank himself to death) he was so racist even Hone Harawira would have said “hold on a minute”
    
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    August 1, 2019 9:00am
    - Tall Man
      
      “even Hone Harawira would have said “hold on a minute””
      
      I would very much doubt that.
      
      “In 1979 Harawira was part of He Taua, which confronted drunken University of Auckland engineering students who performed a parody of the “Ka Mate” haka. The group including Harawira assaulted them with baseball bats and hoses, resulting in several broken bones.”
      
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      August 1, 2019 9:05am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Japanese drivers (especially truck drivers) are well trained, and drive on the same side of the road as in NZ and the UK.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TEAaiBqHOE
  
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  August 1, 2019 9:08am
  - Jack5
    
    Thais, Indonesians, Sinaporeans, Malaysians, southern Africans, Indians, Pakistanis, probably even Stephiestanis, also drive on the left.
    
    This source reckons everyone originally drove on the left. He reckons that, in the days when armies used horse transport, this kept the right hand free for a sword.
    
    https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Thai-people-drive-on-the-left-side-of-the-road
    
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    August 1, 2019 12:54pm
- dubya
  
  Davey, was the use of ‘dwarf’ in relation to anti Asian racism intentional? Hehe
  
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  August 1, 2019 9:39am
3-coil

Happy birthday jacinda! ?
Love WP
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August 1, 2019 8:18am
- Tall Man
  
  Like this?
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB7O_JIxGuY
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:53am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That took me a while – slow start to the day.
  Well done
  
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  August 1, 2019 9:17am
- Inandout
  
  3-coil:
  I’ve been through the islands on a horse with no name
  It felt good to be out of the rain
  In the islands you can remember your name
  ‘Cause there ain’t no one for to give you no pain
  
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  August 1, 2019 9:21am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    After 9 days in the desert the horse still had no name?
    
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    August 1, 2019 9:32am
    - Tall Man
      
      No “working group” to report back…..
      
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      August 1, 2019 11:48am
hullkiwi

Got to love the CoL spin machine for attempting to divert attention.

Following a successful National Party conference, a bad poll on Monday, bad news from Mangere and PriNZess’ visit to the Islands not being well received you get….a big policy announcement that hasn’t been completely thought through yet.

I am referring to the announcement about a future central water authority.

Other than the announcement not much has been thought through, yet government departments have been working on this since the Havelock North Inquiry. Have they? Because the detail is not there.
Clark on the radio this – will water be chlorinated? – don’t know; how will small towns pay for the upgrade, will the govt subsidise? – don’t know. How much will the cost be to local users – we’ll have to work it through.

Key details are yet to be worked through.

This policy announcement has all the hallmarks of the CoL needing the media to focus on something else. But when you look at it, it is not an announcement that ready to be announced or a policy ready for legislation.

Meaning once again, we have the CoL putting PR before good governance.
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August 1, 2019 8:19am
- Raphael
  
  Where are the details for this? (it will affect a family member’s job, so would like to get the info)
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:48am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    There are no details yet…
    Just an announcement that there will be a Government regulator setting National Standards on water
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/395678/new-govt-regulator-to-have-final-say-on-safe-drinking-water
    
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    August 1, 2019 9:58am
- Tall Man
  
  Perhaps this is starting to happen…..
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9GJtM9lN-I
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:55am
  - Jules99
    
    These days the white girl would have a bad ending.
    
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    August 1, 2019 9:10am
    - Tall Man
      
      Pretty sure come 2020….. so will ours.
      
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      August 1, 2019 9:22am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Brings to mind
  The most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the government and I’m here to help.
  
  Ronald Reagan
  
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  August 1, 2019 9:28am
- backster
  
  Centralised control and Agenda 21 is the name of the game. Same with Hipkins and the polytechs
  
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  August 1, 2019 9:34am
Maggy Wassilieff

What happens when peer-reviewing, Academic Journals get caught out publishing crap /fake papers…

https://nofrakkingconsensus.com/2019/07/29/hoaxing-academic-journals-now-forbidden/

https://nofrakkingconsensus.com/2019/07/31/why-academic-hoaxes-are-deadly-serious/
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August 1, 2019 8:24am
- Andrei
  
  Sturgeon’s law Maggie – “95% of everything is crap”
  
  It applies to everything, pop music, movies, novels and of course articles published in peer reviewed journals
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:33am
Tony Stuart

Another Labour Party untruth uncovered:

Pharmaceutical giant Pfizer has confirmed the Government was offered 30,000 more vaccines to help with the Northland meningitis outbreak in 2018 – but did not take it.

Pfizer’s Anne Harris confirmed at the Health Select Committee on Wednesday that it offered the additional vaccines to the Ministry of Health in November last year, despite the ministry only purchasing 20,000 from another supplier.

“We proactively contacted the ministry because we had seen media reports of meningococcal cases in Northland,” Harris told the select committee.

Dr Clark warned of limited vaccinations due to a global shortage. He said at the time, “There is strong international demand for the Men W vaccine, which is in short supply.”

But a letter obtained by Dr Reti sent to the Health Minister by Pfizer on 21 May revealed the ministry had been offered 30,000 vaccines.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/07/pharmaceutical-giant-pfizer-confirms-health-ministry-didn-t-take-up-extra-vaccines-offer-for-northland.html

I urge people to read the whole story, as to how the Government completely misled us over the availability of meningitis vaccines. It was implied that there was a supply issue, but instead we now know that a conscious decision was made not to vaccinate all Northland children against this strain of meningitis.

It is issues such as this that win and lose elections. Well done to Dr Shane Reti for getting Anne Harris in front of the select committee yesterday to put on record Dr David Clark’s decision not to give all Northland children the opportunity to be vaccinated.
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August 1, 2019 8:25am
- Happychappy
  
  Another of the lies by the Health Minister has been put to the public for all to see,and judge his honesty.
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:45am
peterwn

RIP Whaleoil – Seems that those operating Whaleoil have jumped ship (and set up a new site) presumably as the Official Assignee and / or liquidators close in on this ‘asset’. So Matt Blomfield will have extracted his sweet revenge.
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August 1, 2019 8:28am
- projectman
  
  DILLIGAF.
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:46am
  - Tall Man
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a6EOyaMdqY
    
    6 0
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    August 1, 2019 8:59am
  - secondcumming
    
    New site @ BFD.co.nz ……..*Big Fucking Deal* 😎
    
    10 7
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    August 1, 2019 9:21am
    - igm
      
      Obviously the rhetoric of another banned miscreant . . . grow up!
      
      5 10
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      August 1, 2019 11:20am
      - peterwn
        
        The new site uses the same ‘Disqus’ commenting account (and associated Disqus cookie) so those banned from Whaleoil stay banned.
        By the way it is not bfd.co.nz – that site is Bethlehem Family Doctors.
        
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        August 1, 2019 11:42am
      - secondcumming
        
        @igm
        
        You need to get a life pal….that’s what the acronym stands for as was WOBH.
        
        5 1
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        August 1, 2019 11:57am
- White Anglo Saxon Protestant
  
  0 care. Mr Slater has a high degree of culpability for the dramas in his life.
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:51am
  - gump
    
    Cameron Slater is an example of the maxim: Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
    
    6 2
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    August 1, 2019 1:27pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Not to be sadly missed.
  
  15 6
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  August 1, 2019 8:59am
  - G152
    
    Those he banned moved on to newer more convivial pastures.
    Sad really that he and his underlings couldn’t see that
    
    20 3
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    August 1, 2019 9:19am
  - igm
    
    It is still there . . . can drongos not understand?
    
    4 8
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    August 1, 2019 10:16am
- Ross12
  
  It does not look like a “jump ship” to me Peter (Cameron’s partner, SB, is still involved) although I agree with your guess as to why they are setting up something else.
  The layout makes it look more like an online newspaper instead of a straight blog.
  
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  August 1, 2019 9:27am
- Chris R
  
  Peterwn: Nobody but nobody has “jumped ship” as you proclaim. The new site is bigger bolder and up-to-date. For the record it is operated by the same crew who ran Whale Oil…I’m one of them. Go and find a genuine sad story to crow about! It appears you have little else to do.
  
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  August 1, 2019 9:52am
  - Happychappy
    
    Wow Chris R , Peterwin has more often than not spoken up for Whale Oil and Cameron so I myself think your response is uncalled for.
    
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    August 1, 2019 10:11am
    - Chris R
      
      Happy: If he wishes to impute cowardice to the operators of that blog then he is out of line. Some of the most intrepid people in the NZ media have taken roles at that site. “Jumping ship” infers that it is sinking, the opposite is the truth, it is now a more sophisticated and erudite operation. The idiotic PM and her circus are sinking I recommend that you have a good look, then take another study of the BFD site it will cheer you up even further!
      
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      August 1, 2019 2:50pm
      - peterwn
        
        The good ship ‘Whaleoil’ is sinking OK, no doubt because of a few torpedos effectively fired by Matt Blomfield. There also seems to be a judge on the warpath ordering discovery of Whaleoil things on behalf of the three health professionals. Hence a new site not involving Cam and not tainted with these things.
        
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        August 1, 2019 3:14pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Perhaps a better metaphor is dismounting a dead horse and getting on a fresh one?
        
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        August 1, 2019 3:50pm
  - igm
    
    It is a good site, in fact better, and nothing much has changed. A lot of wishful thinking by banned detractors. All good for most of us.
    
    12 4
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    August 1, 2019 10:15am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Will the kitten videos survive?
      
      8 1
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      August 1, 2019 12:01pm
    - Poppa
      
      I know I am old but it seems difficult to navigate to me
      
      Obviously set up as a news site rather than a blog site
      
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      August 1, 2019 2:51pm
  - peterwn
    
    Another sad story – an awful lot of printed wrapping paper needs to be thrown out and meat re-packaged.
    
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    August 1, 2019 11:51am
  - peterwn
    
    And this ‘same crew’ presumably includes the guy who yesterday made the silly statement that:
    “As we approach a new political cycle with the imminent appointment of a new National party leader”.
    
    8 1
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    August 1, 2019 12:26pm
    - Cam Pervan
      
      unfortunately it looks as though he is still there. Totally inconsistent moderator as well. Got banned for daring to question him on something he wrote, that others get moderated on. pffff
      
      8 1
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      August 1, 2019 12:50pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      They obviously strongly believe the Nats should change and clearly favour Collins.
      Me, not so much. But I have to say I’ve been able to disagree and say why without any sanction.
      
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      August 1, 2019 3:52pm
  - Biscuit
    
    Chris R, if WhaleOil is no more and if (your words) the new site is ‘operated by the same crew who ran Whale Oil’, any sane person WOULD say you have jumped ship.
    
    Just answer me this: why the change?
    
    Why not re-image the existing site?
    
    I’d ask you in your ‘bigger bolder and up-to-date’ site but someone up above said the old bans have been rolled over. And one of your ‘same crew’ banned me from your site aeons ago for simply pointing out that the answer to a question raised in one of the Quizzes of the Week was 101% incorrect.
    
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    August 1, 2019 1:29pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      The Liquidator owns the Web site name now
      It could be fun to buy it when up for offer and give it back to them
      Just for lulz
      (I suspect someone might just do that…)
      
      4 0
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      August 1, 2019 1:48pm
    - Chris R
      
      Biscuit: Getting banned often turns on your tone. Perhaps you need to let this go and ask for re-admittance. If you adopt an aggressive or petulant tone without provocation then just desserts…the existing site has been re-imaged. There has not been a “jumping of the ship” by anyone other than those who have been banned.
      
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      August 1, 2019 2:57pm
      - peterwn
        
        So the Whaleoil ship has ‘jumped’ those running the new site. Fortunately Winnie’s Waka Hopper legislation does not apply to them.
        
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        August 1, 2019 3:17pm
      - Biscuit
        
        Aggressive or petulant?
        
        Moi?
        
        ‘Ask’ for readmittance?
        
        When I was banned by one of your ilk for pointing out an error your ilk had made?
        
        Without any email or anything to me explaining what sin I had theoretically committed?
        
        Ha!
        
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        August 1, 2019 4:07pm
    - peterwn
      
      It may not be a bad idea if Chris R takes a look at Whaleoil’s Rules of Politics, they are pretty relevant here.
      1. If you are explaining, you are losing.
      7. Never wrestle with pigs, two things are for certain if you do. You will get dirty and the pig will enjoy it. – This pig is thoroughly enjoying it.
      6. Don’t mess with The [Judge], ever. Slightly amended but very relevant. Davison J (re Matt Blomfield) and Palmer J (re health professionals) come to mind.
      
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      August 1, 2019 3:30pm
- wreck1080
  
  Good job.
  
  I certainly won’t be following , whaleoils team of moderators were almost as bad as the big man himself!
  
  12 5
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  August 1, 2019 10:19am
  - DigNap15
    
    yes their moderators banned me for a simple posting error.
    I posted a link to a porn site rather than a Youtube video. (it was purely a keyboard error)
    They would not accept my apology.
    
    10 2
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    August 1, 2019 11:37am
    - Biscuit
      
      DigNap, I bet you that would be my experience too if I ‘asked’ forgiveness.
      
      Notice that ‘Chris R’ doesn’t offer any forgiveness on the site’s behalf or even an amnesty, ha.
      
      Have a look at DPF’s Bad Boys pages, ‘Chris R’.
      
      I feature there not even the once.
      
      And DPF – and, more recently, his mods – don’t just petulantly ban anyone for one (perceived) sin. That sin is usually explained and dealt with by an ascending scale of penalties.
      
      You should try such a system.
      
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      August 1, 2019 4:15pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  Revenge is rarely sweet, even when eaten cold.
  
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  August 1, 2019 10:27am
Maggie Pie

POTUS stops just short of calling CNN’s Don Lemon…. a dumb ‘N’

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1156588090456256512
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August 1, 2019 8:37am
- MCos
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I see President Trump says he is “the least racist person in the world.”
  
  Yeah right & some street in Wales says it’s the steepest in the world.
  
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  August 1, 2019 9:03am
  - Batman
    
    No no, don’t you get it? It’s actually people of colour who are racist because they keep saying that Trump says racist things ?
    
    12 12
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    August 1, 2019 9:06am
    - Tall Man
      
      Like this guy you mean?
      
      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/26/jussie-smollett-charges-dropped-latest-news-maga-attack-lies-accusations-empire-actor
      
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      August 1, 2019 9:54am
    - Tall Man
      
      Or this….
      
      https://twitter.com/democracymum/status/1129147659162251264
      
      10 0
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      August 1, 2019 9:56am
    - Ed Snack
      
      So, are you saying that any criticism of a “POC” is implicitly racist and any statement by any such person must never be criticized on that basis ?
      
      Because Lemon made a false and stupid statement about Trump, and you seem to be suggesting that Trump if he responds negatively to that is racist, even if he makes zero reference to Lemon being a POC ?
      
      As for what Trump said about Baltimore – again zero reference to race unless you want to be the actual dog that hears the “dog-whistle” implied in “infested”. Trump said it is rat infested, and it is – even the mayor (POC) said so 1-2 years ago, Cummings himself said so in 1999 in an interview. So why would it be suddenly racist to remark on the fact that Baltimore is in a disgraceful condition. It even received $1.8B in federal funds to assist, and no trace of those being to spent to benefit anyone can be found – except probably in the pockets and bank accounts of the local politicians and their families and friends.
      
      Racist is simply the latest trope that the Democrats are pushing as an attempt to label Trump – probably because their internal polling has identified a significant leakage of the Black and POC vote towards Trump as the economy aids them and other steps like the First Step program to release non-violent offenders (overwhelmingly helping blacks disadvantaged by programs instigated by Democrat politicians like Bill Clinton). That’s all it is, dishonest political posturing.
      
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      August 1, 2019 12:28pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  Trump was nowhere near the ‘n’ word! Calling someone stupid, whatever their race, for getting the facts wrong is exactly what should happen under equality.
  
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  August 1, 2019 10:31am
  - Ian Hawthorn
    
    Who is the racist.
    1. The guy who called someone stupid.
    2. The guy who heard the word “stupid” and immediately thought “n****r”.
    
    17 1
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    August 1, 2019 11:13am
Yvette

‘PM deeply involved’: Māori Development Minister Nanaia Mahuta to meet SOUL leader Pania Newton over Ihumātao dispute
Māori Development Minister Nanaia Mahuta entered a confidential meeting with Newton at 1pm in Auckland, a spokesman said.
A spokesman for Mahuta would not comment on any details of the meeting, but said they were “delicate negotiations and the Prime Minister has been deeply involved”.
– yesterday

So involved by phone or Internet? All the way from Tokelau.
It should be interesting when details are revealed in an official information request, or “leaked” by Labour to show their Leader is not a part-time Prime Minister.

There is a slight irony in that the Government said they would not be involved in Ihumātao, and then Ardern with no apparent legal support made her “captain’s call” that Fletcher’s private building must be halted – even although there seems to be no evidence that Flectchers were being silly enough to attempt to construct anything that thousands of visiting protestors could immediately deconstruct.

Then that irony will have surely increased if Bridges’s ‘disrespectful’, ‘sexist’ remarks over Jacinda Ardern’s Tokelau visit and Simon’s “part-time Prime Minster” comments have spurred her to be “deeply involved” from Tokelau in the issue that she had initially proclaimed to not be the Government’s business.

If Ardern has been “deeply involved” from the Tokelau – perhaps to prove Simon Bridges wrong – it may confirm the very reason why she was right in her initial statement that the Government should not intervene.
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August 1, 2019 8:42am
- trout
  
  The Maori ‘King’ cannot be left out. He will make a pilgrimage to the site today; unfortunately (for the ‘protectors’) he supports Fletcher’s proposal.
  
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  August 1, 2019 10:10am
  - Paulus
    
    Tuhetia and entourage – Saturday – in his chauffeur Mercedes – if he wakes up.
    
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    August 1, 2019 1:29pm
Shut the hell up you Fascist!

Marie Jancindanette is coming under cold blade of greater media and public scrutiny…

…. She told them they would eat cake…

The teachers are bitching that their $1500 cake is missing the icing due to tax, Kiwisave and repayments!
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August 1, 2019 8:53am
- alex Masterley
  
  I expect many teachers saw the round number of the $1500 and spent it (actually or mentally) without realising the effect of tax etc.
  Surely it is for the Union to let their members know what will happen to the payment.
  
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  August 1, 2019 9:06am
  - calendar girl
    
    I would expect that anyone being paid to teach my children would be sufficiently intelligent (and aware of the world around them) to know that tax would be payable on any additional salary received.
    
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    August 1, 2019 9:46am
    - Swifty
      
      It appears not, unfortunately for us.
      
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      August 1, 2019 11:44am
- DigNap15
  
  Now they might understand what it is to be an employer
  Wages plus holiday pay, plus acc, plus sick leave, plus kiwisaver, plus bereavement leave.
  No wonder unemployment is going up
  
  9 1
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  August 1, 2019 11:40am
- Biscuit
  
  That the teachers weren’t clued-up enough as to figure that lump sum payments were gonna get taxed harshly more fool them.
  
  Maybe their next protest should be against the buffoons who run their Unions for either a) not so clueing them in or b) demanding of Mr Hipkins that any lump sum payments negotiated with Mr Hipkins be tax-free.
  
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  August 1, 2019 1:34pm
  - Batman
    
    No way they could be done tax free I think, but goddam it is hilarious watching them complain that they got taxed!!
    
    I I left my last job my payout was roughly $40k and got halved to 22 ??
    
    5 1
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    August 1, 2019 2:05pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  And I am a teacher and not getting any of the $1,500. So I have to have a sly laugh at their anguish. BUT, by not belonging to the union I am about $600 per annum better off, and that’s after tax. And I had no pay docked. Still irks that they are delaying our increases by three months though. Now that is seriously petty.
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:34pm
Notsofast

Here is the extensive leave to appeal decision for Peter Ellis.

https://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/cases/peter-hugh-mcgregor-ellis-v-r/@@images/fileDecision?r=935.69399522

Susan Glazebrooke appears to have made up her mind already with a very generous approach covering his interests. Jumping the gun, but there is essentially no information that was not available last century as in this thorough and well written appraisal. I strongly recommend taking the time, while conceding I have not read Lynley Hood.

https://www.peterellis.org.nz/1996/1996-08_NorthAndSouth_SecondThoughtsOnTheCrecheCase.htm

This case has a sorry history that will result in a shellacking for all judges and politicians who collided with it, particularly Phil Goff and Judith Collins. They knew far better, Judith Collins signed Don Brash’s petition prior to being appointed minister of justice and routinely stamping a denial of interest in the injustice. Safety in numbers by joining a parade of shamed conspirators?
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August 1, 2019 8:55am
- Swifty
  
  Just why did Mark Lundy kill his wife and daughter?
  
  With an axe.
  
  11 4
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  August 1, 2019 11:46am
  - Notsofast
    
    If that deserves a reply, it is only to point out that leave to appeal to the supreme court is a “very high bar” to jump. Not my words.
    
    1 8
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    August 1, 2019 1:07pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Actually the most relevant and recent info is 2016, not last century.
  
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  August 1, 2019 12:06pm
  - Notsofast
    
    This has been deemed relevant by the fresh evidence requirement. To an extent it is recompiling figures, and marginally justify the convictions moving from safe to less safe.
    That is how I read it.
    
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    August 1, 2019 12:41pm
- peterwn
  
  It is interesting that the SC has given reasons for granting leave. Previously the SC would either just say leave is granted to hear the points raised without reason or would provide reasons if leave was declined.
  
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  August 1, 2019 12:15pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I am pleased to see justice being advanced. The original case against Ellis was always dubious.
    
    11 1
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    August 1, 2019 1:16pm
Maggie Pie

My partner reckons I would be the only woman he’s ever met who watches porn and thinks about how the actress needs to have a mole checked.
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August 1, 2019 9:15am
- Biscuit
  
  Porn? Porn? What is this word ‘Porn’?
  
  Lemme Google.
  
  Hmmm, ‘About 1,710,000,000 results’…
  
  To paraphrase one member of Scott’s doomed Antarctic expedition, I’m just going to my room and I may be some time.
  
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  August 1, 2019 1:38pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Obviously a Good Catholic Girl. (Caring for the health and wellbeing of all God’s creatures, including mattress actresses.) However, I digress. Three downticks. Why?
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:28pm
Cobolt24

Surely this has to be satire?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/114640775/most-private-cars-would-go-in-my-radical-plan-to-urgently-cut-emissions
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August 1, 2019 9:17am
- The Feed
  
  Sadly, I think he might be serious.
  
  Meanwhile, mass transit buses and trains are virtually obsolete now. The future is point-to-point automated, individual transport.
  
  https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283757446_Autonomous_Cars_Past_Present_and_Future_-_A_Review_of_the_Developments_in_the_Last_Century_the_Present_Scenario_and_the_Expected_Future_of_Autonomous_Vehicle_Technology
  
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  August 1, 2019 9:47am
- Tall Man
  
  Just another idiot being given a platform to prove he is an idiot.
  
  11 2
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  August 1, 2019 9:52am
  - sooty
    
    You can bet your arse that Vince Dravitzki wil have a reason why he should have a car and you don’t!
    
    10 0
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    August 1, 2019 10:32am
    - Tall Man
      
      He already has, his name has more consonants that mine…..
      
      4 1
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      August 1, 2019 11:46am
- KevO'Brien
  
  How do you implement public transport for all?
  
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  August 1, 2019 1:17pm
Jack5

Anyone know who the Alan Jenkins is who writes so patronisingly in Stuff today on gun ownership?

I laughed at this comment in his piece about people he thinks unfit to own a rifle. It would rule out of gun ownership a lot of Kiwiblog posters:

“Anyone who …. can’t keep their cool in the comments section …”

He also says:

“I’d go as far as to suggest that police should now be checking registered gun owners against their social media account.”

What a pretentious twit. Is he a Stuff reporter? If not, who is Jenkins?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/114613717/the-new-gun-laws-might-be-an-overreaction-but-theyre-better-than-no-reaction-at-all
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August 1, 2019 9:17am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  “…police should now be checking registered gun owners against their social media account.”
  
  Newsflash to Pretentious Jenkins: they already are. Try a little harder to keep up, laddie.
  
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  August 1, 2019 10:29am
- graham
  
  The words “pretentious”, “twit”, and “Stuff” frequently go together.
  
  I very rarely bother with Stuff these days. Their combination of virtue signalling and cheap click bait just doesn’t appeal to me. I might check the site out once a day to see if there’s anything interesting or newsworthy, but generally 30 seconds is enough to ascertain that there isn’t anything so important that I haven’t already read or heard somewhere else.
  
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  August 1, 2019 3:14pm
Hugh Pavletich

Posted at … https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/08/links-1-august-2019/#comment-3401686

NEW ZEALAND: The bursting housing bubble …

New Zealand’s serious long – term ( and politically can – kicked ) housing multiple stretch problem is coming to an end.

By definition, all bubbles are unsustainable.

Normal housing markets do not exceed 3.0 times gross annual household income ( median multiple ) … Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf .

When the Irish bubble burst ’07, the unweighted median multiple across its surveyed metros went from 4.7 to 2.8 a few years later, putting all its Banks to the wall and requiring a bailout from German financial institutions of about 70 billion euro.

New Zealand is currently about 6.5 and Australia 5.6 … access ( 15 to date ) Demographia International Housing Affordability Surveys, including the ‘flight to affordability’ (2019 Section) with extensive further information at http://www.PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org .

The days of playing infantile political and bureaucratic games with New Zealand’s housing market are over.
.
.
Just released …

ANZ Business Outlook Survey shows the worst sentiment in the construction sector since 2009, while overall business confidence has sagged again and more firms are expecting to cut staff … David Hargreaves … Interest Co NZ

https://www.interest.co.nz/business/100966/anz-business-outlook-survey-shows-worst-sentiment-construction-sector-2009-while
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August 1, 2019 9:22am
- Cobolt24
  
  UNITED STATES: Fed cuts rates by a quarter point:
  
  https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/31/fed-cuts-rates-by-a-quarter-point.html
  
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  August 1, 2019 9:50am
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    … UPDATE …
    
    Totally unnecessary bubble housing costs (not surprisingly) whack those on lower incomes the hardest.
    
    Does Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern give a toss ?
    
    New Zealand’s money: How do you compare? | Susan Edmunds | Stuff.co.nz
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/114647486/new-zealands-money-how-do-you-compare
    
    … extracts …
    
    … Economist Cameron Bagrie said New Zealand was an “expensive country to live in”. …
    
    … HOUSING
    
    One of the biggest cost increases has been in housing. …
    
    A two-parent, two-child household loses a median $18,800 a year in housing costs.
    
    Bagrie said about 40 per cent of new borrowers were taking out home loans that were more than five times their annual incomes. …
    
    … Eric Crampton, chief economist at the New Zealand Initiative, said both before-housing cost and after-housing cost incomes had risen in recent years but the after-housing cost growth had been more muted.
    
    “Growth in housing costs as a fraction of household income has been greatest among New Zealand’s poorest households: the average household in the country’s poorest fifth of households is spending about 45 per cent of its income on housing costs. Fixing the country’s regulatory frameworks around housing can enable more construction, help develop a construction sector that can respond to changes in demand, and bring the affordable housing that will help foster security.” … read more via hyperlink above …
    
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    August 1, 2019 10:22am
    - Hugh Pavletich
      
      … FURTHER UPDATE …
      
      New listings hit record low on Realestate.co.nz in July, asking prices trending down in most major centres … Greg Ninness … Interest Co NZ
      
      https://www.interest.co.nz/property/100979/new-listings-hit-record-low-realestateconz-july-asking-prices-trending-down-most
      
      The latest figures from property website Realestate.co.nz paint a very subdued picture of the market, with new listings and total inventory well down and prices mostly easing.
      
      The website received 7295 new residential listings in July, which was the lowest number of new listings it has received in the month of July since it began recording the data in 2007.
      
      Inventory, which is the total number of properties available for sale on the website, was also down, with 21,843 residential properties available for sale on Realestate.co.nz at the end of July, down 3.4% compared to July last year.
      
      Average asking prices have also been trending down, falling from $702,090 in February to $646,842 in July. … read more via hyperlink above …
      
      2 6
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      August 1, 2019 5:37pm
- peterwn
  
  Last bit – “worst sentiment in the construction sector since 2009”.
  This is great news for landlords (especially those who have hung in) and those selling their homes.
  I do predict sags in the housing market, but these would be no more than 20% and would be temporary. There may be deeper sags with coastal houses which will enable savvy buyers to buy holiday homes cheap knowing they will not be submerged for some time if ever.
  
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  August 1, 2019 12:22pm
G152

Those who were witnesses and ‘interviewers’ in the Ellis farcical trial should be now taken to court and have to defend their lies and fake facts with comparable jail times awaiting them !
22 1
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August 1, 2019 9:23am
- DigNap15
  
  Yes, but that should have been done 20 years ago!
  
  9 1
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  August 1, 2019 11:41am
peterwn

“As we approach a new political cycle with the imminent appointment of a new National party leader”
From ‘Nige’ in one of the last ‘Whaleoil’ items.
Wishful thinking, or does he know something that the rest of us do not know.
The only negative indicator with Simon at present is he is on 6% ‘preferred leadership’ along with Judith. However that indicator means nothing – it is basically what MSM journos want it to be. With a few weeks effort if they wanted to they could readily get Simon up to 20% and Jacinda down to 20%.
31 0
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August 1, 2019 9:31am
- Tall Man
  
  Who do the missing 44% support?
  
  It sure as shit isn’t you know who…. I’m too scared to use her name as the mods are on high alert today to protect …. you know who from criticism.
  
  I’m probably getting a Death stare” right now.
  
  13 3
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  August 1, 2019 10:29am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Too scared to use her name, too scared to use your own name. Oh dear.
    
    2 17
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    August 1, 2019 12:10pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Oh dear, looks like I’ve got another fan.
      
      Such a shame I always get the dumb ones but you may consider yourself in good company with steffy.
      
      6 0
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      August 1, 2019 3:33pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  WO (the blog, not the individual) has been shilling for Bridges to be replaced for more than a year. As a paid-up party member, I can’t see it happening.
  
  Bridges has emerged from the party conference last weekend in good form, with the party vote still holding up at 45%. I am almost certain that would drop if Bridges was rolled as leader. As much as I respect Judith Collins as a politician, I don’t believe she is the right person to be leading National at the moment.
  
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  August 1, 2019 10:35am
  - Tall Man
    
    You are on the money. Look at the “don’t knows” and “won’t says” in the polls.
    
    Payback 2020.
    
    10 1
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    August 1, 2019 11:45am
    - Ross12
      
      Yes TM –the figure for the “don’t knows” is high. 14% in the CB poll done before the recent one. I haven’t seen the most recent one but I doubt it would be much different.
      
      7 0
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      August 1, 2019 12:09pm
    - Paulus
      
      Called like in the Australian Election – the silent majority !
      
      4 0
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      August 1, 2019 1:32pm
      - Tall Man
        
        That’s my opinion as well Paulus plus, it’s just too early to make a judgement call but, based on my daily interactions I think ardern is bye bye unless National do something totally abhorrent like reopen “full and final” treaty settlements… Oh wait, that’s the idiot’s plan isn’t it?
        
        3 0
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        August 1, 2019 3:36pm
  - peterwn
    
    Most of the shilling has come from SB. I do not recollect her shilling against Simon when Cam was active. Is she taking instructions from Cam’s sick-bed?
    
    2 0
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    August 1, 2019 3:07pm
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Highly likely, I would think.
      
      0 0
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      August 1, 2019 5:00pm
  - RiP NZ
    
    Collins isn’t leadership material.
    Folks can criticise Bridges all they like but Collins isn’t the answer.
    She basically had a piñata in Twyford – my 5y.o could have landed more hits than she did.
    
    2 0
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    August 1, 2019 7:04pm
RW Capitalist

Q:
Do we know what was discussed in the “high level” meeting between JA and Scott Morrison?
or is it a secret?
Can’t be good for JA, or it would have been “leaked” by now.
24 1
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August 1, 2019 10:26am
- marcw
  
  Similarly, the recent Winston (WIIFM) Peters’ trade mission to the US. No public or “leaked” details confirms there were no good results for NZ.
  
  17 0
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  August 1, 2019 11:07am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    and
    The Yanks and Scott Morrison have too much class to rub it in.
    
    9 0
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    August 1, 2019 11:42am
- DigNap15
  
  Yes, stop telling us what to do.
  And we are now going to double down on our kiwi criminal deportation laws.
  Now F off back to NZ (or Tokelau)
  
  10 2
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  August 1, 2019 11:43am
- burt
  
  I suspect none of these people have sufficient experience in importing class A drugs to be given NZ Residency.
  
  7 0
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  August 1, 2019 11:43am
Maggy Wassilieff

Why won’t Julie Anne Genter release her communication to Phil Twyford about Wellington Transport projects?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12254550

I thought the Green Party was all for open, transparent Government
32 0
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August 1, 2019 10:40am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  I thought the Green Party was a Green Party.
  
  18 0
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  August 1, 2019 10:55am
- rangitoto
  
  It’s imperative that the car fascists don’t learn of the Gweens secret plans.
  
  14 0
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  August 1, 2019 11:14am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    antiCfa
    
    4 0
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    August 1, 2019 12:57pm
Happychappy

Is this one of the reasons Health Minister David Clark is to busy to to address his plan for Cancer.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12254586
Is it all about food taxes to help Labour out of there financial turmoil from the promises that they made. Look out people they have found a way to get more tax from you.
9 0
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August 1, 2019 10:55am
- Tall Man
  
  How the hell can “healthy” non modified food be more expensive than junk food?
  
  There’s something wrong but “tax” won’t fix it.
  
  7 1
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  August 1, 2019 11:44am
Captain Mainwaring

Interesting little shitfight in QT yesterday between Hipkins and the duck.
Dissent in the ranks?
27 0
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August 1, 2019 10:57am
- Piniwi
  
  Funnier today Captain @10.57 am as Davis did his best to evade answering questions using prepared notes that even confused him. Even patsy questions are adding to the fun now as some seem to struggle with forming a question. Meanwhile Woods is struggling with her own style of obfuscation as they again seek to avoid the established process of setting referendum questions. Even after Davis confirmed it had never been done in this manner before thus opening the option for future supplementary questions since he is speaking for the PM. Lol
  
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  August 1, 2019 4:57pm
Fletch

Free fuel today at BP between 11am and Midday, only at two stations, the BP on Ormiston Road in the Auckland suburb of Flat Bush and the outlet on Gloucester Street in Christchurch’s Linwood.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12254714
4 0
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August 1, 2019 11:03am
- burt
  
  Why ?
  
  4 0
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  August 1, 2019 11:41am
  - cmm
    
    Advertising?
    
    6 0
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    August 1, 2019 11:44am
    - sooty
      
      As I don’t live near them, I will boycott BP!
      
      2 0
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      August 1, 2019 4:55pm
- cmm
  
  My prediction: There’s going to be a huge backlash because some people were at work or sick or whatever so they could not get the free petrol.
  
  There will be tears.
  There will be entitlement.
  There will be give a little pages set up for single mums & beneficiaries who could not get the free petrol due to whatever.
  PriNZess will wade in, hug, and the taxpayer will end up giving free petrol to people who think they lost out.
  
  Look what happened with Meridian Energy’s prompt payment discount: Lots of squealing that it was unfair to people who can’t budget properly.
  
  6 0
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  August 1, 2019 3:30pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    I was looking at the photos… I am not that desperate to give up time so that I can score a few litres of free fuel… Couldn’t be bothered.
    
    0 0
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    August 1, 2019 8:18pm
Fletch

Now they reckon climate change is causing kids to have lower IQ. *sigh*

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2019/07/children-born-with-lower-iq-due-to-climate-change-report-suggests.html
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August 1, 2019 11:04am
- Inandout
  
  Mothers who breed constantly for monetary return tend to have lower IQ kids. Lack of mental stimulation appears to creep into their DNA, and is passed down. Also nappy change is more important than climate change.
  
  15 0
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  August 1, 2019 11:36am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    That should read lower IQ women tend to have more children–it’s their occupation in life when they drop out of school.
    
    7 0
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    August 1, 2019 1:27pm
- burt
  
  Perhaps we should have taught them to question and analyse rather than believe and accept.
  
  8 0
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  August 1, 2019 11:40am
  - Tall Man
    
    Perhaps they are being “over moderated”…….
    
    4 2
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    August 1, 2019 11:42am
- cmm
  
  Plausible if you believe the world is warming…
  
  Developing and maintaining a brain is extremely expensive (energy etc etc) and much of the reason for complex brain development has been to survive in complex natural environments – storing food over winter etc.
  
  People living in the tropics do not need this complexity, so no need for that highly expensive brain. In general Warmer places = lower IQ.
  
  As the world warms (assuming it is for now) it becomes more like the tropics, the need to worry about storing food over winter decreases. Therefore IQ can reduce and evolution will make it so.
  
  Personally, if we’re worried about the IQ of future generations I would be more concerned with demographic swings than a few %.
  
  Look at a map of IQ (eg. https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php)
  The people in the red bits are breeding, the people in the green bits – not so much.
  
  5 2
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  August 1, 2019 11:43am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Bodies naturally slow down after years in the tropics. There is an apparent adaptation to the heat. Exercise generates heat that requires internal moderation. Even brain activity does that.
    
    4 0
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    August 1, 2019 1:39pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    well bugger me they were right. New Zealand’s IQ increased and South Africa’s dropped on my arrival….. So Japan leads, followed by China.Why am I not suprised? Great that we are a bit higher than Australia, although that may change as they deport all their Kiwi Crims back here….
    
    0 0
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    August 1, 2019 8:17pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Great piece of misapplied thinking.
  
  6 0
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  August 1, 2019 1:24pm
- MrLovebucket
  
  More like…
  
  “Children born with lower IQ believe in climate change”
  
  11 0
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  August 1, 2019 1:50pm
- Piniwi
  
  Source of such revelations Fletch @11.04 am is important as we note this come from offshore: “The report from Global Health Alliance Australia laid bare the impacts climate change is having on health, AAP reports.” Whereas no other country has a pay to lay plan like NZ making it a lifestyle choice for young women. Now with an added Baby Bonus in the mix as an extra enticement.
  Accordingly most recognize that after more than 2 decades so many can create life but struggle with essential life needs beyond birth. Funny seeing a Minister herself the off spring of a notable beneficiary having to consult other members what the term CPI meant. The IQ deficiency levels have obviously been in decline for some time it seems.
  
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  August 1, 2019 5:16pm
Tall Man

A sane man.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/video/mikes-minute-green-mp-joins-ranks-of-pointless-attention-seeking-agitators/
19 1
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August 1, 2019 11:41am
- Swifty
  
  That was very good from Hosking today.
  
  14 0
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  August 1, 2019 12:13pm
burt

I can’t understand why people are getting upset about this documentary on Sharia Law.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/114662464/has-the-handmaids-tale-finally-gone-too-far
15 0
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August 1, 2019 11:52am
- Inandout
  
  I listened to the woman author (on Hosking?) of THT and she is violently anti Trump. She said the day he was elected she had to retire to bed because she felt unwell and stressed. That was all I needed to know.
  
  22 0
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  August 1, 2019 12:04pm
- Fletch
  
  The liberals love it. Rather than Sharia, they like to equate it to Trump’s conservative America and how conservatives want to force women to have babies rather than disposing of them via abortion. Often women show up as the ‘handmaids’ from the show at feminists marches and protests like they are being really deep and ironic or something. It’s all stupid.
  
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  August 1, 2019 12:21pm
- stephieboy
  
  burt , not a documentary about Sharia Law but more a dystopian future where fundamentalist Christians get the upper hand and introduce extreme theocratic rule where women lose out big time!
  
  Read the book (which the TV series its based on) and learn something new for a change
  
  https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38447.The_Handmaid_s_Tale
  
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  August 1, 2019 5:02pm
  - Swifty
    
    Good grief.
    
    Are you really that thick?
    
    burt was practicing irony. Did you not spot that?
    
    I would have let it pass but I see you had to slur burt on your way through.
    
    What a fucking gumboot you are. Remind us what you’re known as on here?
    
    10 0
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    August 1, 2019 5:21pm
krazykiwi

Oh I loved this:

Several hundred climate demonstrators from a group called “Reclaim the Power” descended on the Square Mile to picket what they had thought was the headquarters of Drax, only to find out that the gas and energy group had moved offices more than a year ago.

The activists had instead chained themselves to a block in Moorgate that is now occupied by Europe’s leading renewables generator, Statkraft.

“There was some confusion” admitted one protester present at today’s rally.

Several hundred ignorant activists left the research about where to protest to one or two people, who got it completely wrong. And so they all looked like idiots.

Sounds like exactly like the global ‘climate change’ circus.
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August 1, 2019 12:11pm
Maggie Pie

Question 3 today should be exciting –

“Ohhhh mister speaker…!!”
17 0
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August 1, 2019 12:26pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Just as expected – G rants orgasmic response to these silly patsy questions never fail to please.
  LOL!!
  
  15 0
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  August 1, 2019 2:25pm
Twinkletoes

It is what one would expect seeing that Islamic nations comprise about 30% of the UN.
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August 1, 2019 2:39pm
Swifty

With depressing regularity the Chinese government reminds me that they’re a totalitarian one-party gang and not to be trusted:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/114669992/chinese-consulate-praises-auckland-university-students-in-scuffle-for-spontaneous-acts-and-deeds

Do your job Winston.
14 0
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August 1, 2019 3:08pm
- Tall Man
  
  Baubles first… you know the rules.
  
  8 0
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  August 1, 2019 3:38pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I wonder if the cops have arrested the chap that pushed the female to the ground yet?
  
  13 0
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  August 1, 2019 3:44pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Nudged I think Maggy.
    
    There was a fair bit of acting from the dropper. I would be surprised that a charge could be made as she threw herself down for effect.
    
    Now many will dispute that as that won’t suit the “narrative” but having seen a few of these in my life I know a “fall” when I see it.
    
    3 0
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    August 1, 2019 4:23pm
  - kowtow
    
    Having looked at the video I’d say that girl could play first division football , she dropped like she was in the penalty area……
    
    On a very serious note though, the fact that the pro Peking mob think they can act like that in our universities , where student expression of opinion should be sacrosanct ( as it should be everywhere ) makes me very concerned about the values that these people have and where do they think they are. Most unkiwi .
    
    ps The garrison commander in Hong Kong has made a very pointed warning , not looking good at all.
    
    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3020881/chinese-armys-hong-kong-chief-says-troops-are-ready-protect
    
    7 0
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    August 1, 2019 5:01pm
    - Tall Man
      
      I agree but.. at least get a wack before you hit the ground. Remember “smoke and mirrors” is an ancient thing.
      
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      August 1, 2019 8:26pm
DigNap15

Yes it was funny watching Phil Twyford answering questions put to the associate minster of transport.
10 0
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August 1, 2019 4:38pm
Swifty

‘I demand other New Zealanders support my lifestyle even more than they are already!!!!!’

Read it and weep:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/114611886/the-new-zealand-welfare-system-reinforces-a-cycle-of-poverty
8 0
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August 1, 2019 5:10pm
- Tall Man
  
  Well, that’s surprise. Good thing our host is so supportive of ardern….
  
  0 0
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  August 1, 2019 8:21pm
- GoVege
  
  Whats wrong with this article, Swifty?
  Anybody trying to educate themselves to be contributors to society surely deserves a liveable allowance while they are studying or training.
  Its the professional baby farmers dragging up 10 kids to be crims/ lifetime beneficiaries who are the problem.
  
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  August 1, 2019 8:54pm
Wired-one

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/114676050/health-minister-david-clark-accused-of-hiding-dhbs-massive-deficits

Why are we paying this incompetent twats salary?. This is the worst government in our history.
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August 1, 2019 7:42pm
Jack5

The Israel Folau religious ructions widen.

His cousin, Josaiah Folau, has been fired from teaching at a Sydney Catholic school after describing the Catholic church as ” “the synagogue of Satan”.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/israel-folau-s-cousin-let-go-from-teaching-job-at-prestigious-catholic-school-20190801-p52d1d.html
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August 1, 2019 9:42pm

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