General Debate 4 September 2019

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mjw

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The Tories are reduced to arrogance, manipulation, bullying and lies over brexit. And those aren’t even my words, but those of their own MPs!

The right seems to be poisoning itself.
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September 4, 2019 8:03am
- John Warren
  
  Oh well, the left are busy doing the same thing here.
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/398076/green-party-members-resign-over-trans-rights-critical-newsletter-article
  
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  September 4, 2019 8:13am
  - Tall Man
    
    Sorry John, they’re not “left”, they’re looney and psycho, as a supporter of them, is aptly named.
    
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    September 4, 2019 8:24am
- chaos
  
  Brexit, You mean that thing that the majority of voters elected to happen. How dare a government carry out what was democratically voted on because the minority that lost don’t think it is fair
  
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  September 4, 2019 8:23am
  - igm
    
    Just about as bad as a cashiered ex-PM telling people to vote for the legalising of cannabis. By the way, who funds this Clark Foundation, is it as corrupt as the Clinton’s?
    
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    September 4, 2019 9:05am
    - Biscuit
      
      igm, I hit Google.
      
      The Helen Clark Foundation ‘is an independent public policy think tank’ and – quelle surprise – ‘is a registered charity’.
      
      Katherine (Kathy) Errington – most recently a diplomat (2013-18) in the New Zealand Embassy in Tokyo – is the Executive Director.
      
      The foundation is governed by a board of four trustees:
      
      Joan Caulfield
      Peter Davis (Chair)
      Geoff Pownall
      Simon Mitchell
      
      ‘Key’ People include:
      
      Helen Clark (Patron)
      Katherine Errington (Executive Director)
      Claire Mason (Research Support)
      Rowen Waterworth (Administrator)
      Paul Smith (Social Media)
      Andrew Chen (Technical Support)
      
      There are two ‘Outreach Advisors’:
      
      Helen Klisser During
      Mike Williams
      
      Whew, eh?
      Definitely no nepotism THERE. Move on…
      And no sinecures for long-past-it Labour hacks…
      
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      September 4, 2019 9:41am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        I’m surprised not to see Judith Tizard’s name anywhere there, given her long-standing friendship with Clark.
        
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        September 4, 2019 11:51am
      - Jules99
        
        I would be wanting to track donations. The Clinton Foundation was little more than a money laundering organisation.
        
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        September 4, 2019 1:29pm
    - kloyd0306
      
      Clarke: “We have nearly wiped out tobacco but cannabis is perfectly okay.”
      
      Weird, just plain weird.
      
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      September 4, 2019 9:43am
      - sooty
        
        Roadside testing as well are you, Sweety!
        
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        September 4, 2019 11:22am
  - Colville
    
    Lefties love democracy…right up until it gives a result they disagree with.
    
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    September 4, 2019 9:05am
    - MCos
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Boris is a right wing Conservative and he doesn’t seem too keen on democracy right now.
      
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      September 4, 2019 9:42am
      - chaos
        
        So a PM who is about to call an election is not keen on democracy? Weird, you people just make no sense
        
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        September 4, 2019 10:22am
      - freethinker
        
        So delivering what the democratically binding referendum asked is not democracy in which case good friday will fall on 25/12/2019.
        
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        September 4, 2019 10:33am
      - Liberty
        
        Maybe you would you like to explain how enacting the results of a referendum is undemocratic?
        
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        September 4, 2019 10:35am
      - MCos
        
        Under their system Boris can only propose a general election.
        Parliament must vote 2/3 in favour.
        The Brexit referendum was not legally binding.
        
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        September 4, 2019 11:20am
      - IC5000
        
        As predicted Boris is proving to be oddles of fun. It’s a pity he didn’t realise that being PM requires actual competence.
        
        I look forward to a complete whitewash of events in his memoirs
        
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        September 4, 2019 1:00pm
      - Liberty
        
        MCos
        
        “The Brexit referendum was not legally binding.”
        
        The Government in power has the moral responsibility
        To carry out referendum result.
        This country has been inflicted with MMP
        Because the National government honored the result of a referendum.
        Yet in your deluded opinion that is undemocratic.
        Maybe you are right National should of told the populous to get knotted.
        Then we would have been speared the appalling
        Old Witch, Dear leader, That old doddery old fool.
        Along with the great unwashed.
        
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        September 4, 2019 3:47pm
- James Stephenson
  
  F-ing fifth columnists. Hold your nerve, Boris!
  
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  September 4, 2019 8:35am
  - IC5000
    
    Isn’t it the other way round with entryist Brexiters who have nothing in common with the Tories trying to take over the Conservative party
    
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    September 4, 2019 1:02pm
- slightlyrighty
  
  The UK PM uses prorogation to suspend parliament, a common procedure which, in this case results in 3 sitting days lost in parliament, and the Left lose their shit claiming this is undemocratic.
  
  Watch them try to block a snap election
  
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  September 4, 2019 9:35am
  - Ian Hawthorn
    
    They are going to try to introduce a bill to pass A LAW TO REQUIRE THE PRIME MINISTER TO SIGN A LETTER asking the EU for an extension.
    
    A law to require someone to sign a letter. Now I’ve seen everything.
    
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    September 4, 2019 9:50am
    - sooty
      
      That’s strange!
      We are trying to get a letter that someone signed to be released, here in NZ.
      
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      September 4, 2019 11:25am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I suspect Boris has got them. An election has an ordered time frame from proroguing Parliament, the election at a set future date and the return of the writs. The govt is not determined on the day of the election but after the formal report back of the votes and HM calling the new leader.
      The govt. remain in office until HM formally installs her new PM. Brexit is at a fixed date under the EU rules so is unchanged. That date seems to be before the writs can be returned. Boris wins.
      
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      September 4, 2019 5:40pm
  - MCos
    
    Your summing up of the situation is self serving in the extreme.
    Having said that there seems little doubt the Opposition is taking advantage of the situation for their own advantage, but if the Government was united behind Boris he’d achieve his goal.
    They’re not and that’s his problem, not the left.
    
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    September 4, 2019 9:54am
    - freethinker
      
      The problem is MP’s at 2 General Elections undertook to abide by the referendum result and have since used every devious, false and manipulative mechanism to not deliver so Remainer MP’s are the problem. They stopped being representatives when they promised to adhere to the referendum result and became delegates tasked with delivering, they have failed and worse deliberately undermined the democratic decision. I predict that the next UK election will be fought as People against Parliament, Parliament will lose – you cannot beat numbers – there will be remainer MP,s in leave majority constituencies deselected, others will find no support from members delivering leaflets and door knocking and probably no subscriptions to pay for materials. Boris has probably made a large mistake in failing to include Nigel Farage and his Brexit party whose candidate in the recent Welsh by election prevented the Tories from winning which will repeated on a larger scale if Boris remains obdurate. Such a result would leave The Brexit Party with the balance of power and possibly result in Boris not becomming PM, I would be happy if Jacob Rees Mogg was next UK PM. Check out order-www.order.com for more details.
      
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      September 4, 2019 10:45am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        There are now a majority of MPs voting against Brexit, many of which are likely to lose jobs at next election and so will hold on at all costs till May 2022 election. Or am I wrong about that?
        
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        September 4, 2019 2:29pm
      - fernglas
        
        I wouldn’t get too excited about Farage’s Brexit party; in some remain areas you could run a vicious poodle against the tories and win
        
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        September 4, 2019 2:46pm
      - IC5000
        
        > The problem is MP’s at 2 General Elections undertook to abide by the referendum result and have since used every devious, false and manipulative mechanism to not deliver so Remainer MP’s are the problem.
        
        So what happens when ‘remainer’ MPs have to go back to their constituents and explain why they are losing their jobs? The way that the Brexiters outlined what would happen was that the EU wold come begging for a trade deal and the UK’s terms. Noting of the sort has eventuated. All I can see coming from the Brexit side have been Hitlerian rhetoric, lies and a denial of reality. How can anyone support that with a straight face.
        
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        September 4, 2019 5:10pm
      - MCos
        
        In my opinion the referendum should have been held after their parliament had worked out an agreement (or not) with the rest of the EU, not before, so the people had a vague idea what they were letting themselves in for, not the other way round.
        
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        September 4, 2019 7:16pm
- Liberty
  
  “The Tories are reduced to arrogance”
  A silly generalisation.
  It is only a small faction of deluded remainers.
  Such as the Pompous Twat who crossed the floor to join the Pinkos.
  His electorate voted to leave the EU
  https://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/eu-referendum-bracknell-votes-leave-11516886
  
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  September 4, 2019 10:16am
Simon

Hong Kong isnt China.

What a shitty vile regime. Natz & Labo should return their “donations.” Do the right thing.
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September 4, 2019 8:05am
- kowtow
  
  No it’s not , but if the violent radicals keep it up HK will be China a lot sooner than anyone imagined.
  There’s a grim irony in the fact that what they say they’re fighting for will be taken from them very quickly ie the degree of autonomy they currently enjoy.
  
  Youth is wasted on the young.
  
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  September 4, 2019 8:24am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    yes, those HK’ers should just lie down and accept a slow withering death of liberty, rather than attempt to use international pressure to try and retain some freedom at a time when China’s power is still limited.
    
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    September 4, 2019 8:34am
    - kowtow
      
      They’re not lying down , 2 million marched peacefully and had the extradition bill withdrawn.
      
      Several thousand , perhaps tens of thousands but still a tiny minority set out down the road of violence and have unleashed forces they may or may not have intended.
      
      As to freedom , the place enjoys an unpredented level of freedom compared to China, and they risk losing that , fools.
      
      International pressure ? You’ve got to be joking . This is an internal Chinese affair , you think anyone’s going to really care or confront the Emperor.
      Will our media ask Bridges and Co what they did about it while they were up there kowtowing ?
      
      “In China they will be accompanied by Jian Yang and will visit Shanghai, Beijing and Xiamen. They will attend the 21st China International Fair for Investment and Trade (CIFIT) where they will open the New Zealand Pavilion. Mr Bridges will also speak at The Belt and Road Agricultural Products and Material (E-Business) Trading Fair and address the New Zealand Studies Centre, Xiamen University.”
      
      http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1908/S00288/bridges-and-brownlee-to-visit-india-and-china.htm
      
      The media whores will move on to their next train wreck , like they have from South Africa . This stuff rates barely a mention.
      
      https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/09/south-africa-scores-held-looting-anti-foreigner-protests-190903064029232.html
      
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      September 4, 2019 9:16am
      - Billy Collins
        
        “They’re not lying down , 2 million marched peacefully and had the extradition bill withdrawn.”
        
        And this shows you dont understand the protest.
        
        The bill has NOT been withdrawn. Carrie Lam declared it “dead” but that doesn’t officially mean withdrawn. Unless it is officially declared withdrawn, then it’s not.
        
        This is why the protests are still going.
        
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        September 4, 2019 11:47am
      - kowtow
        
        Protests or riots ?
        
        There’s a huge difference.
        
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        September 4, 2019 1:01pm
      - Billy Collins
        
        Organised protests, with some unorganized spirit of the moment, non-premeditated rioting.
        
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        September 4, 2019 2:15pm
    - The King
      
      What a joke, talking liberty and freedom from a country that gives you 14 years jail for a shitty manifesto/video as they take weapons off law abiding citizens. You get less jail time in China than NZ for illegal guns. You’re a meme bro.
      
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      September 4, 2019 12:11pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      I feel the same for NZers.
      
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      September 4, 2019 12:17pm
- stephieboy
  
  Hong Kong isn’t China.??
  
  History and reality suggests it is,
  
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong
  
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  September 4, 2019 10:07am
Lee C

I see ‘The Helen Clark Foundation’ is up and running with a pro-cannabis reform soundbyte.

Why it;’s almost as if taxpayers’ cash was provided to fund a pro-Labour/Green lobby to do their propaganda dirty work for them…

Surely not?
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September 4, 2019 8:06am
- Tall Man
  
  Disgusting nepotism in action.
  
  The “helen clark” anything is merely “payback” from ardern for the elevation plotted and arranged by h1 & h2.
  
  ardern thinks she is in charge but it is clear to all that clark and “what’s in it for wynston” are running this farce.
  
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  September 4, 2019 8:08am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Tall even worse, H2 is the chair of a working group on health service reform. One question, what are her qualifications for such a trough job?
    
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    September 4, 2019 8:23am
    - Tall Man
      
      Good head……….?
      
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      September 4, 2019 8:25am
    - mark15
      
      Who are H1 and H2?
      
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      September 4, 2019 9:24am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        H1 is Helen Clark, and H2 is her former Chief of Staff and banger-together-of-heads, Heather Simpson. Ms Simpson has been working in the PM’s office since Labour was elected, and is currently chairing the review of the Health sector.
        
        There’s also H3; Grant Robertson, who worshipped at the feet of the others up to the time he was elected to Parliament.
        
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        September 4, 2019 9:38am
      - kloyd0306
        
        H1, H2 and H3 – all women!
        
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        September 4, 2019 9:46am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        “Who are H1 and H2?”
        Where have you been for the last 20 years?
        
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        September 4, 2019 9:50am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Helen Simpson, former Economics lecturer, has been a Policy advisor for Helen Clark since 1987.
        
        She worked for Helen Clark as a special advisor for the 8 years Clark was at the UN.
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11790217
        
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        September 4, 2019 10:25am
    - freethinker
      
      H2 reminds me of Herr Goebbels in drag.You can guess who clark reminds me of – pick any despot of the last 100 years.
      
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      September 4, 2019 10:51am
      - sooty
        
        She is ment to be working in Cindys office!
        I don’t think so because of how many stuffups have there been since Whinstone selected her!
        She ruled with a iron hand under H1. How would a rapist get access to the women, if H2 was in control. No man would dare to touch a woman on the ninth floor. They would have to be eunuchs to enter the ninth floor!
        
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        September 4, 2019 11:37am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Sooty – she “ruled with a iron hand under H1” because that’s the way Clark got things done; with an iron hand. As much as I despise Clark’s politics, everyone knew where they stood with her, and there were no grey areas.
        
        Ardern couldn’t be more different to Clark on that front. She is indecisive and wishy-washy, and is all style over substance. I suspect Heather Simpson doesn’t think much of the current PM, compared to her former boss.
        
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        September 4, 2019 11:55am
      - sooty
        
        But how can H2 be so tits useless under Cindy, yet be so good under H1!
        
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        September 4, 2019 12:47pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    The rumour, which has never been denied by anyone, is that the night before Andrew Little walked the plank and Ardern became leader, Helen Clark and Michael Cullen were manning the phones.
    
    If there is anyone who believes that Clark had no involvement in Ardern’s elevation, I have a Nigerian prince I’d like to introduce you to.
    
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    September 4, 2019 9:13am
    - Biscuit
      
      Tony, I’m a bit wary of those Nigerian princes.
      
      Sure, they might have access to untold wealth but they all seem to die in bizarre circumstances.
      
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      September 4, 2019 9:45am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Bizarre deaths! You wrote that without mentioning the Clintons!
        
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        September 4, 2019 10:37am
      - pdm
        
        PG – I don’t think Biscuit knows the Clintons. They are not Liverpool supporters from way back.
        
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        September 4, 2019 12:06pm
- Wired-one
  
  https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115489902/helen-clark-says-she-would-have-moved-on-cannabis-in-fourth-term
  
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  September 4, 2019 8:13am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Bull & manure come to mind. She is supporting this to get lost “yuuff” to vote in the referendum and vote Labour. The old bat is still a cynical old crone.
    
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    September 4, 2019 8:21am
    - Tall Man
      
      It’s clear to see where ardern got her “honesty” from…..
      
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      September 4, 2019 8:26am
- Scott
  
  Lee C- yes I noticed that tv3 The Project had her on for the whole programme last night. She was there to talk about cannabis reform. So it does seem suspicious.
  
  As for me I find after 9 years of Ms Clarke as prime Minister I would rather not hear her opinion on any issue. Given that she did very little good for 3 terms as PM I found my prejudice against her opinions far greater than my desire to watch the Project.
  
  When will we be done with this woman?
  
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  September 4, 2019 8:14am
  - kowtow
    
    I don’t tend to watch The Project.I can’t stomach the presenters or their inanities. But isn’t it odd they devoted a whole progam to one topic ? Agenda?
    Was there any balancing point of view presented?
    
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    September 4, 2019 8:28am
    - Scott
      
      Kowtow – I think you’ll find that will be a no
      
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      September 4, 2019 8:33am
    - oldgolfer
      
      The Project, balanced?
      Puffed up pretenders, more like.
      
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      September 4, 2019 11:01am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    I usually watch the Project but as soon as the dreadful old bat showed her scrawny face I turned it off.
    
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    September 4, 2019 8:53am
  - stephieboy
    
    Scott,
    
    “As for me I find after 9 years of Ms Clarke as prime Minister I would rather not hear her opinion on any issue.”
    
    Nine years of severe PTSD?
    
    Tsk, tsk , tsk…
    
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    September 4, 2019 10:17am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    I can’t stand Jessie Muligan or guy Williams.
    Don’t mind Jeremy Corbett and Paul Ego.
    
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    September 4, 2019 10:25am
- cmm
  
  I see the bit where Mizz Clark says she would have legalised it herself.
  
  So why didn’t ya? 9 years and you did nothing!
  
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  September 4, 2019 8:18am
  - hullkiwi
    
    You believe that I’ve got some land in Christchurch to sell you.
    
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    September 4, 2019 9:09am
- coge
  
  This Helen must be an imposter. The Helen Clark we used to know pushed smoke free legislation. That was something she got right in my view.
  
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  September 4, 2019 9:18am
Scott

Regarding the US presidential race I’m changing my mind about Joe Biden. According to the New York Times, hardly a bastion of the vast right wing conspiracy, Joe is looking tired doing his speeches. He doesn’t seem to know why he’s running apart from getting rid of Donald Trump. He makes a lot of misstatements and his campaign revolves around some tired themes about uniting the country which he could have run on at any of his first two attempts at becoming president.

In other words he is not a happy warrior, he felt obligated to run and he would rather go back into retirement. He should be an easy target for Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders at the debates.

I’m now predicting that Biden will not be the nominee. I mean if you have lost the New York Times? How can you be the establishment candidate in the Democrat primary?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/02/us/politics/joe-biden-2020.html
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September 4, 2019 8:08am
- cmm
  
  Having him in as the front runner means that when someone else (gotta be a woman) takes over they can say something positive about her popularity and energy. Look she even zoomed to the fore and took over from Biden.
  They shanked Bernie lst time. Surely they will shank him again.
  
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  September 4, 2019 8:21am
  - fernglas
    
    It’s a bit sad that the best the greatest country in the world can come up with as opposing Presidential candidates is two aged blokes with serious recall issues
    
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    September 4, 2019 8:30am
  - Scott
    
    Good points cmm. The Democrat establishment hates Bernie and I cannot imagine them letting him become the nominee. Would Mayor Pete get the nod? Well he can’t seem to make a good fist of running South Bend Indiana so how he’s ready to step up to the big job of POTUS is not going to be an easy question for him to answer. Apparently black Americans are not thrilled by his gayness or something because he has 0% support among black voters.
    
    By a process of elimination that leaves the women Harris or Warren. Warren seem to be getting crowds and is running an energetic campaign. By a process of elimination I’d probably have to say Elizabeth Warren as favourite to become the nominee?
    
    If that comes to pass I’m sure that Pres Trump will be a complete gentleman and never refer to her Indian heritage or call her pocahontas during the presidential election? ?
    
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    September 4, 2019 8:31am
    - Bell-47
      
      Indian heritage? the woman is a complete fraud. The BS she came up with about “being told” she was part Indian is the weakest, most disingenuous, tripe. She deliberately appropriated Indian culture to elevate herself. When the truth emerged she blamed it all on her family. There is someone who Americans can rely on..right? I hope she is nominated, Trump will get another term if Pocahontas runs.
      
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      September 4, 2019 9:46am
      - MCos
        
        “She deliberately appropriated Indian culture to elevate herself.”
        That was when she was a Republican.
        
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        September 4, 2019 10:10am
      - fernglas
        
        I can understand Trump’s contempt. It comes naturally to someone whose father was born in Germany
        
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        September 4, 2019 2:50pm
- Steve Todd
  
  @Scott @ 8:08AM
  
  “By a process of elimination that leaves the women Harris or Warren.”
  
  Here and now, today, that is fair comment. But don’t overlook Tulsi Gabbard.
  
  Sure, she has been shut out of the Houston debate, but I expect her to qualify for the October debate(s) on 15/16 October, in Ohio.
  
  From POLITICO, 31 August—
  
  “The memo, which was obtained by POLITICO, says the second night will only be held if necessary. The DNC has previously said it will not have more than 10 candidates on stage at a time.
  
  “Candidates can qualify for the debate through Oct. 1, the memo read. The October debates have the same qualifying rules as the September debate: Candidates need to reach 2 percent in four-DNC approved polls and receive donations from 130,000 unique donors. Candidates who qualified for the September debate automatically qualify for the October one, and candidates who missed out have an additional month to meet the requirements, meaning the stage is expected to grow.”
  
  Therefore, it is very possible that both Tulsi and Mariannne Williamson will qualify for the October debate. (From abcnews, 31 August: An announcement on the venue, hosts, and timing for the debate is forthcoming.)
  
  The point is, if Joe fades, and the DNC is going to shut out Bernie, no matter what, then who will be the candidate the superdelegates vote for, to ensure Tulsi is also shut out? Okay, let’s say it’s Elizabeth Warren. But isn’t she too “liberal” for the DNC?
  
  Tulsi is against anti-regime-change war, specifically, and against war, generally. She has reached this position after seeing first-hand, the “cost of war”. As she keeps reminding voters, she is a soldier, and she wants to be the next President *and Commander-in-Chief*. Never just the next president. In fact, near the end of the clip, linked to, below, she says just “Commander-in-Chief”. She highlights her military background, because she knows that voters “lap that stuff up”.
  
  Now, TYT’s Ana Kasparian is not yet convinced of Tulsi’s “progressive” credentials, but, have a look at this 35 minute interview (29 March 2019) with Cenk Uygur: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0DAO2yBAgQ. Okay, it’s a “soft” interview, but she defends her positions admirably.
  
  For the time being, she remains my choice for the nomination. She’s “military”, which voters love, but she’s anti-war (and critical of her party, where she considers it necessary to be so), which the DNC hates.
  
  In my view, she has the potential to overwhelm the power of the superdelegates, if they throw their weight behind Warren or Harris.
  
  Roll on 15 October in Ohio, and beyond.
  
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  September 4, 2019 1:53pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Oops, that should be, “Tulsi is against regime-change war, specifically, […].”
    
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    September 4, 2019 2:35pm
Wired-one

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115490734/kiwibuild-megan-woods-faces-the-biggest-day-of-her-career

Wish I could tell my boss that I’m just going to “reset” my work. Heads should roll, they lied to us and have delivered nothing. What a bloody joke!.
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September 4, 2019 8:11am
- chaos
  
  I don’t think the reset is the bad part, the bad part is $8 million already spent buying kiwi build of developers that didn’t sell.
  
  https://www.msn.com/en-nz/money/homeandproperty/government-spends-dollar8-million-buying-back-unwanted-kiwibuild-homes/ar-AAGJmrq?li=BBqddE1
  
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  September 4, 2019 8:25am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Some months back kiwibuild had made more than half a billion dollars worth of financial commitments. Not to mention the huge admin spend for little effect.
    
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    September 4, 2019 8:37am
  - calendar girl
    
    Only $8 million? I suggest they have spent a lot more than that in bailing out builders who had completed or near-completed stock on their hands.
    
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    September 4, 2019 8:58am
- Poppa
  
  Pies will be in short supply today
  
  They may as well just build a few & give them away, after all it is only our money so who cares
  
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  September 4, 2019 8:28am
- artemisia
  
  Yes many Kiwibuild lies were told, sometimes by omission. Mr Twyford kept on talking up Kiwibuild as if it was all marvellous and on (an ever changing) track. All the while data that didn’t support that was removed from the official website and definitions quietly dropped or changed.
  
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  September 4, 2019 8:51am
- RW Capitalist
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCzS2FZoB-I
  Found this on line.
  1 house per week.
  
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  September 4, 2019 9:20am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Here’s the Kiwibuild reset for you:
  We have changed the target from 1,000 houses this year to 50 houses.
  Lets give ourselves a big pat on the back for a job well done and exceeding our target……the year of delivery…..sarc.
  
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  September 4, 2019 9:48am
JibberJabber

Working Group?
Obviously this means something different to Labour.

Matthew Hooton
@MatthewHootonNZ
·
17h
You couldn’t make this up.
Two years “work” by the health working group.
Lots of concerns.
But no recommendations at all!

Labour, is just not working, at least they`re consistent.
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September 4, 2019 8:30am
- pussycat
  
  Two long years of neglect
  
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  September 4, 2019 9:31am
  - sooty
    
    Two long years of head down in the trough and they finally come up for air and off to the next trough!
    
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    September 4, 2019 11:40am
- oldgolfer
  
  Recommendations in March, she said, just in time for improbable promises before the next election.
  
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  September 4, 2019 11:02am
softail 1450

[Mod – deleted on DPF’s recommendation. Offensive on several grounds]
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September 4, 2019 8:34am
- Colville
  
  That is just a tease, now I wanna read what He said ! 🙂
  
  [Mod – I assure you, you don’t.]
  
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  September 4, 2019 9:10am
  - Biscuit
    
    Aw, Mod!
    
    Boo! Hiss!
    
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    September 4, 2019 9:47am
- rightoverlabour
  
  Post it on youstupidboy https://ysb.co.nz/
  
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  September 4, 2019 10:51am
srylands

God we have Helen Clark on the wireless seeking legalisation of canabis. Then John Minto complaining about houses.

Back to Mahler symphonies.
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September 4, 2019 8:41am
Yvette

New Zealand is not exactly flush with electricity generation –
Coal-fired generation from Genesis Energy’s Huntly operations was the highest in more than five years in the December quarter, as a combination of low hydro storage and plant outages were compounded by tight natural gas supplies.
– Newsroom, January 22, 2019

To replace just ten percent (10%) of New Zealand’s fossil fuel consuming vehicles would require 7,226.9 GWH extra electricity [calculated from basic energy figures on MIBE website]
The annual generation of the Benmore Dam on the South Island’s Waitaki River is 2,215 GWH. [Wikipedia]
Therefore a 10% increase in electric vehicles may need extra generation equivalent to 3.26 more Benmore Dams.

So, in the television ad, those two old retirement home escapees, who get their lady friend – sort of electric Rapunzel – to throw them down an extension cord from her upstairs balcony in the middle of the night to charge up their yellow electric vehicle – how long do they have to sit in her garden, in their open car while it re-charges? Perhaps not so WONDFL as the car’s plate claims?

And Julie Ann Genter needs to tell us how many new dams will be needed for not only retirement home escapees to recharge their car in the garden in the middle of the night, but so all of us to do it.
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September 4, 2019 8:42am
- yossarian
  
  Just the start. Wait until we all start plugging in our electric cars every night. We’ll be building coal power stations hand over fist just to keep the cars on the road
  
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  September 4, 2019 9:18am
- alex Masterley
  
  And, the coal that fired the coal fired Huntly operations was imported. Instead of being dug out of the ground beside the power station.
  
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  September 4, 2019 9:23am
  - Paulus
    
    Coal is still being imported from Indonesia via the special terminal in Mt Maunganui/Port of Tauranga then railed to the Waikato.
    
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    September 4, 2019 1:29pm
    - DigNap15
      
      At least it was not a complete waste of time building that huge terminal.
      Lets burn Indonesia’s coal and keep ours for later.
      
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      September 4, 2019 8:50pm
- sooty
  
  Maybe the lady got entertained while charging the car. After all they had a few hours to kill!
  
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  September 4, 2019 9:34am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Remember…some of that electrikery is going to be required for our “Clean Green Hydrogen” production.
  Government releases plans for green hydrogen to curb greenhouse gas emissions
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12263992
  
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  September 4, 2019 10:08am
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    MW , fortunately ” electrikery” here is laregly from green renewables like hydro and geothermal!
    
    DUH!
    
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    September 4, 2019 10:14am
    - sooty
      
      But the ones we have already don’t work very well!
      
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      September 4, 2019 11:42am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      So steph, how many new hydro and geothermal stations are under construction to cope with all the electric cars?
      
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      September 4, 2019 11:49am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        I can think of one canned in the South Island, does that count?
        
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        September 4, 2019 12:26pm
  - Yvette
    
    Maggy –
    Hydrogen is primarily produced by steam reforming of natural gas. Other major sources include naphtha or oil reforming of refinery or other industrial off-gases, and partial oxidation of coal and other hydrocarbons. A small amount is obtained by water electrolysis and other sources. – Wikipedia
    
    So Taranaki’s hydrogen will be produced by electrolysis with power transported likely from the South Island rather than using natural gas from virtually under their feet.
    
    Partly as a consequence of Jacinda virtual signalling France in that she had banned further gas exploration.
    France has very little domestic natural gas production. Some 98% of France’s natural gas is imported.
    
    Rire jusqu’à ce que mon cul tombe – fin du gaz naturel
    
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    September 4, 2019 10:28am
  - Swifty
    
    Stiffy gets disturbed in the barn…..
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1ho8di4ywQ
    
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    September 4, 2019 11:31am
- RW Capitalist
  
  The annual generation of the Benmore Dam on the South Island’s Waitaki River is 2,215 GWH. [Wikipedia]
  To replace this with solar panels.
  at 400W per sqm
  3000sqKm
  NZ total area 268000 sqKm
  So, to just replace Benmore we would need to cover 1% of our total land area.
  
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  September 4, 2019 10:26am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Not even remotely correct. Would need about 1.5GW installed capacity of solar panels to equal Benmore’s yearly power production. That’s about 8km² of panels, or about the size of a big 800Ha farm (though in practice would be a bit more as spread out panels for easy installation).
    
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    September 4, 2019 11:05am
    - cmm
      
      Plus a huge pump storage scheme to store power for use at night.
      
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      September 4, 2019 3:29pm
  - Yvette
    
    So those figures above, and yours, would mean conversion of New Zealand’s complete vehicle fleet from fossil-fuels to electric via solar power would involve shrouding 32.62% of our total land surface in panels, but given that for eons – well, since the first Maori migration – the country, continuously shrouded in cloud, has been known as Land of the Long White Cloud, we’d still be screwed.
    
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    September 4, 2019 11:25am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      about 50billion km driven on NZ roads per year. To fully electrify would need about 1.5GW continuous, or 10TWh, roughly 20% of current grid. That would need about 7.5GW of PV panels, covering about 40km² (4000Ha), and costing about $10billion to install. Easily affordable if spread over 20 years at $500million per year.
      
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      September 4, 2019 4:06pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  We are going to need much more electricity even if we don’t use it to power cars. My robot chef, cleaner, and gardener are going to be using quite a lot. In order to have sufficient power at affordable prices in the future, we should be doing a lot more right now.
  
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  September 4, 2019 10:37am
- Ford Prefect
  
  Rule of thumb for recharging an EV with an extension cord is one hour of charging will get you 10km down the road.
  
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  September 4, 2019 10:46am
  - alloytoo
    
    by which point you would have walked half way there. (or run the whole way)
    
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    September 4, 2019 1:45pm
- freethinker
  
  JAG and the Gweens just stopped a small Hydro scheme on the West Coast so the chance of more Benmores is Nil, which is part of JAGs plan to make us all Bike and justify the huge waste on Bike Lanes.
  
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  September 4, 2019 11:01am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    And kayak.
    
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    September 4, 2019 12:28pm
  - alloytoo
    
    Nobody want to use the cycle lanes because cycle lanes don’t have nasty cars and trucks to clear the rubbish to the side of the road.
    
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    September 4, 2019 1:46pm
- Brian Marshall
  
  Benmore dam is huge. I don’t think there is anywhere in NZ that could stomach another 1 more of them, let alone have the multiple Benmore dams needed. Stupid vacuous politicians, and why does it require individuals on blogs to point this out? Why does our sycophant media not grow some gonads and ask the hard questions when they come up with these stupid ideas of replacing all vehicles with electric cars?
  
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  September 4, 2019 11:50am
  - Lance
    
    There are a number of suitable locations for large and medium size dams in NZ (many turned down already), but some senile old fly fisherman or a kayaker might object so no chance.
    
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    September 4, 2019 12:37pm
Lee C

Come on children.

Helen Clark can’t even lie consistently.

Helen Clark would not have ‘legalised it herself’. She would have proposed the idea, got told ‘NO’ by the electorate, back-tracked from it.

Then when in power, lo and behold! a Green Party Members Bill would have magically been drawn, suggesting legalisation.

Then and she would have passed the legislation while appearing to distance herself from it, and ‘support’ her ‘confidence and supply’ buddies in The Green Party…

Like she did with the ‘anti-smacking’ legislation.
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September 4, 2019 8:54am
Im Right

Like or loath her, one think Clarke executed like a micro surgeon was to keep her hands clean on any contentious/unpopular policies Labour enacted, and not only that she knew each policy so well she could debate the pros n cons of it….now shift 10yrs into the future and we have a PM who not only cannot debate anything without uttering ‘will have to get back to you on that’ and uncountable ummm’s errrr’s, I personally have no time for Clark nor her utterances but you have to admit she knew the ins and outs of EVERY policy and debating points….as did Key! Arden in comparison really IS a part time PM.
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September 4, 2019 9:06am
- Tricati
  
  Clarke screwed up the Seabed and Foreshore Act and couldn’t distance herself from the shambles.
  
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  September 4, 2019 10:03am
Maggy Wassilieff

Here’s the article by Jill Abigail that the Greens have taken down:
Banned by the Green Party leadership: Jill Abigail on women’s rights and trans rights,
https://rdln.wordpress.com/2019/09/03/21871/
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September 4, 2019 9:08am
- alex Masterley
  
  Interesting read.
  Once you strip away the rhetoric I can see why the alphabet people went bonkers.
  I agree with what the author says however.
  
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  September 4, 2019 9:42am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep,
    the hard-won freedoms of yesteryears’ female warriors are being swept away…. But do NOT discuss.
    
    In keeping with their policy of hostility to women defending women’s right to female-only spaces, Green bureaucrats/censors have since removed the opinion piece. Like the other capitalist parties, the Greens’ leadership will not tolerate dissent.
    
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    September 4, 2019 10:14am
    - alex Masterley
      
      The blog at which the article can be found is itself interesting.
      You could play buzz word bingo with all the marxist phraseology that is used.
      
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      September 4, 2019 10:52am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Good to know Don Franks is still churning out commentary…
        
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        September 4, 2019 11:41am
    - freethinker
      
      The Feminazi fought to dismantle Male only clubs etc so they are duplicitous wanting Female only spaces.
      
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      September 4, 2019 11:06am
- Bell-47
  
  Think I’ll repost on all Green Party members Twitter feeds..see how many block me..then the truth will be told.
  
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  September 4, 2019 9:52am
Tony Stuart

As the government tries to rewrite history and pretend there was NEVER a target of 100,000 Kiwibuild homes over ten years, Winston Peters will be a thorn in their side.

As recently as May this year, he said they would not only build 100,000 Kiwibuild homes, but they would build “a lot more than 100,000”:

But Peters is doubling down, saying the Government will build “a lot more” than 100,000.

He doesn’t believe the nay-sayers, telling the House that the KiwiBuild target is “easily achievable”.

He even borrowed a line from US President Donald Trump: “The intention is to make this country great again.”

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/05/kiwibuild-winston-peters-says-govt-will-build-a-lot-more-than-100-000-homes.html

Does the left hand of the Coalition of Chaos even know what the right hand is doing?
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September 4, 2019 9:08am
- Poppa
  
  Yeah but Tony, when has Peters ever said anything sensible?
  
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  September 4, 2019 9:37am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Even a stopped clock is right twice a day…
    
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    September 4, 2019 10:31am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Speaking of Peters, anyone seen or heard of him?
    We were told he was having a week off to recover from an operation for an ‘old rugby injury’.
    He had the following week off as well, and two and a half weeks later he’s still lying low.
    Was the ‘old rugby injury’ actually something more sinister?
    
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    September 4, 2019 2:51pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      He’s been told he can’t fly.
      
      https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/winston-peters-not-yet-cleared-fly-after-leg-surgery
      
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      September 4, 2019 2:56pm
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        So why was he absent from Parliament last week?
        He could have put his money where his mouth is on rail and taken the train.
        
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        September 4, 2019 3:35pm
- chaos
  
  But did Winston say if they will build the houses in New Zealand or on the pacific Islands?
  
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  September 4, 2019 12:06pm
Maggie Pie

Talk about larf! 🙂

My partners mum txts:
What do you call a one-legged woman?
Eileen.

What do you call a one-legged Chinese woman?
Irene.

LOL!!!
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September 4, 2019 9:10am
- cmm
  
  Ironically, I had a great aunt called Eileen who had polio as a child and one short leg. Tough old bird – you wouldn’t pull that lip with her!
  
  One of her hands was frozen open too. She worked as a mechanic during the wars.
  
  Now there’s a true feminist!
  
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  September 4, 2019 9:22am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    She wasn’t Chinese then?
    
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    September 4, 2019 9:25am
    - cmm
      
      The name gave it away eh?
      
      Last I saw her before she died she was carrying her box of tools up the driveway in her one good hand having just been to around to the “old people” next door to fix a leak. No matter they were in their 60s or 70s and she was around 90.
      Of course she refused my offer to carry the tools for her.
      
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      September 4, 2019 10:20am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    “One short leg”
    It is off topic CMM but years ago the BBC cricket commentator said as a renown spin bowler was coming into bowl;
    “Illingworth has two short legs, one of them square.”
    A little old lady complained that there was no need for the commentator to get personal.
    
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    September 4, 2019 9:51am
    - Nigel Kearney
      
      Can only imagine what that lady would have said about “The bowler’s Holding, the batsman’s Willey” or “There’s the captain at second slip, legs apart, hoping for a tickle”.
      
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      September 4, 2019 10:13am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Colemanballs
      
      Google is your friend
      
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      September 4, 2019 10:46am
    - cmm
      
      Even further off topic, the polio also distorted her face so much that it looked like she had a cricket ball embedded in her cheek.
      
      Not exactly a looker, but tons of character. She never got married, but somehow I can’t see her having any time for that nonsense.
      
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      September 4, 2019 4:02pm
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  LOL
  
  ??
  
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  September 4, 2019 10:03am
- Lance
  
  Hear about the guy who had a dog with no legs?
  He took it for a drag everyday.
  
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  September 4, 2019 12:39pm
Maggie Pie

Finally, ive got the vacuuming done and washing on the line.
We caught the tail end of Helengrad speaking on the AM show this morning. As my partner said, does she really think anyone gives a flying fox about her views on legalising cannabis? She has become nothing more than an irrelavent old attention seeker who cant stand being out of the limelight.
[If it were to come to pass, which we doubt, its the Indian diary owners we;d feel sorry for 🙁 ]
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September 4, 2019 10:11am
- greybeard
  
  Emails I sent to Hosking this morning:
  
  1. “Well, I see that H1 and H2 are both firmly back on the NZ taxpayer gravy-train.
  No doubt giving Jacinda advice as well.
  What a crock.”:
  
  2. “Helen Clark does not have any children to be harmed by cannabis.
  She should butt out “
  
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  September 4, 2019 3:11pm
- MCos
  
  ‘nothing more than an irrelavent old attention seeker who cant stand being out of the limelight.’
  There’s a few of those around and our media is only to happy to give them all the space they want.
  Bob Jones, Don Brash, Jordan Williams who is relatively young, Bishop Brian the Apostle, Peter Dunne, and so on.
  Election night is a big occasion for the old dinosaurs. Hundreds of them are whistled up to fill in the gaps with expert opinions few people want to hear. Some of them have forgotten which party they represented.
  
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  September 4, 2019 3:39pm
softail 1450

What is deemed “Offensive on KB is certainly hurtling towards Kindergarten standards, oh well, maybe the moderator should go back to some year old posts and see how far the censorship has progressed …..
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September 4, 2019 10:13am
Maggy Wassilieff

South Africans using violence against immigrants/foreign nationals.
South Africa’s President Ramaphosa condemns ‘anti-foreigner violence’
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-49566458
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September 4, 2019 11:05am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Yes, its truly horrific what’s going on there Maggs. We just watched this on Aljazzera and as my partner said, “It would be hard to name one country in the world that has a Black Leader which hasnt been riven with destruction, violence, and death”.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSmBgQPL8G8
  
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  September 4, 2019 11:51am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  MW, bring sto mind the infamous Malay anti Chinese riots Malayasia 13 May 1969,
  
  https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/society/article/3009804/malaysias-may-13-racial-riots-50-years-they-couldnt-happen-again
  
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  September 4, 2019 11:55am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Are you unaware of the earlier Muslim-instigated riots in 1964, that led to Singapore breaking away from Malaysia?
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_race_riots_in_Singapore
    
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    September 4, 2019 1:50pm
Herodotus

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/115507696/labour-youth-camp-trial-indecent-assault-charges-withdrawn-accused-pleads-guilty-to-assault
So we can no comment on the topic ???
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September 4, 2019 11:19am
- rouppe
  
  I’ll comment.
  
  What a slap in the face for those assaulted. This person is basically going to get off scot free. I reckon 70% chance of discharge without conviction because of “promising career”, or “punishment outweighs the (adjusted) crime” or some such.
  
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  September 4, 2019 1:00pm
- SJ Actual
  
  Very convenient (a coincidence I’m sure), that the guilty verdict was made on the same day that the news will be dominated by the kiwibuild reset.
  
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  September 4, 2019 1:31pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Not really. There’s been a serious bus crash near Rotorua with multiple deaths, and a number of people still trapped in the wreckage of the bus, which is partly submerged. I’d be very surprised if that doesn’t lead the news tonight.
    
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    September 4, 2019 1:39pm
  - namron
    
    There would appear to have been considerable manipulation and manoeuvring to reach today’s decision in the Labour Youth camp trial.
    The limited reporting also seems to hide many of the significant statements, evidence etc.
    I plan a bit of “investigating” of the Crown Prosecutor for the trial – David Johnstone
    and also the Judge – Russell Collins
    
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    September 4, 2019 4:20pm
- Scooter
  
  My guess home detention 6 or 9 months, name suppression.
  
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  September 4, 2019 10:39pm
Fletch

See what you think of this short video doing the rounds on Facebook highlighting dangers of 5G? It’s just someone filming a tree in his neighborhood that is too close to a 5G transmitter…. A guy on my Facebook posted it, but not sure what to think.

https://www.facebook.com/tiff.ariela/posts/10219870648422466
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September 4, 2019 11:29am
- chaos
  
  Seen a lot of things against 5g including testimony to state and local officials in the states against it. I’m still unsure about it.
  
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  September 4, 2019 11:57am
Maggy Wassilieff

So..sexual assault charges at Labour Youth Camp withdrawn.

Man pleads guilty to Assault
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/115507696/labour-youth-camp-trial-indecent-assault-charges-withdrawn-accused-pleads-guilty-to-assault
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September 4, 2019 11:30am
- oob
  
  Aaaaand the fix is in.
  
  The sentence will be a discharge without conviction and permanent name suppression.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12264699
  
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  September 4, 2019 11:35am
- Chuck Bird
  
  The guy admitted putting his hand down the front of the teenage boy’s underpants. This is outrage.
  
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  September 4, 2019 11:44am
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Chuck Bird, I thought it was a [Deleted- Mod] groping at the teen boys privates?
    
    [Mod – and that’s a warning for you stephieboy. You’re dangerously close to Strike Seven, which is a three-month ban]
    
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    September 4, 2019 11:52am
    - chaos
      
      You are a disgusting creep
      
      35 0
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      September 4, 2019 12:18pm
    - Biscuit
      
      Following on from my odds market yesterday re a different perp:
      
      1,000,000-to-1
      No stephieboy Strike Seven ever
      
      1000-to-1
      No stephieboy Strike Seven within the next decade
      
      20-to-1
      No stephieboy Strike Seven within the next year
      
      6-to-1
      No stephieboy Strike Seven within the next month
      
      2-to-1
      No stephieboy Strike Seven within the next week
      
      1-to-4
      No Strike Sev oh for f*ck’s sake, he’s been Strike Sevened already…
      
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      September 4, 2019 2:19pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    It’s all OK. In Labour’s world this sort of stuff is allowed, even encouraged.
    
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    September 4, 2019 11:54am
    - stephieboy
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      “even encouraged.”
      
      ???
      
      Other than that Joe and Jane voter don’t really care a stuff !
      
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      September 4, 2019 12:08pm
      - rouppe
        
        Certainly encouraged in the Prime Minister’s office it would appear
        
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        September 4, 2019 1:05pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        If Joe or Jane are parents – then they will care.
        
        No-one likes to hear of teenagers being assaulted.
        
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        September 4, 2019 2:00pm
      - Garbageman
        
        As someone that has stated they have children (i know probably another lie) you have no concern about perverts getting off with a minor slap for sexual assault, btw you are Joe & Jane public you thick clown and you dont give a stuff eh i guess we all knew that going on your well documented past nice to see you put it into words
        
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        September 4, 2019 3:12pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    To be fair, even one of the complainants said under cross-examination yesterday that it was “low-level offending”.
    
    The more important issue is how minors were able to get off the faces at an official Labour Party event, whilst the responsible adults, including a sitting MP, all went to bed early.
    
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    September 4, 2019 12:00pm
    - stephieboy
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Tony Stuart , boys will be boys and I suppose girls will be girls.
      
      Nat youth events likely have diversions like square dancing and bingo!
      
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      September 4, 2019 12:12pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        boys will be boys
        
        There was no CONSENT for the abuser male to be touching another male’s genital area.
        
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        September 4, 2019 1:37pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      ‘To be fair, even one of the complainants said under cross-examination yesterday that it was “low-level offending”.’
      
      Do we know if some of the complainants got financial compensation?
      
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      September 4, 2019 12:14pm
      - rouppe
        
        If they did then that is perverting the course of justice. A crime in itself
        
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        September 4, 2019 1:06pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        rouppe, If it is carefully worded by some scumbag lawyer then it is not necessarily perverting the course of justice.
        
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        September 4, 2019 1:30pm
    - cmm
      
      “The more important issue is how minors were able to get off the faces ”
      
      The far bigger issue is Labour trying to manage a criminal matter as an internal matter.
      
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      September 4, 2019 1:02pm
    - Surely Knott
      
      I disagree. If some 20 year old forced his hands down my 16 year old sons pants twice and grabbed and twisted his balls in public twice. I’d be furious. It’s degrading, and violating. And then he did it to another boy. and then a few girls got groped and licked and invited outside. Where the hell were the adults. And then the pressure comes on to be cool about it – it was just a joke. And the kid has to minimise it – oh yeah wasn’t that big a deal. What. That sucks. Keep your hands off other peoples genitalia. Kid was lucky he didn’t get smacked in the face.
      
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      September 4, 2019 1:10pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Well said… and some folks just want to dismiss this abuser’s actions as “boys will be boys”.
        
        Labour in action..
        
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        September 4, 2019 1:39pm
      - Surely Knott
        
        And just read the stuff post, entitle My client is not a sexual offender. In a statement provided to Stuff, she said: “We are grateful that what happened that night has been seen for what it really was: drunken antics at a party.” So since laws are about precedent and having certainty about acceptable behaviour, what is the understanding going forward. That if it’s a bit of fun at a party then just shoving your putting hands down someones pants without asking and having a rummage is ok. But not in a taxi? So if I see a politician at a bar and the music’s pumping and everyones dancing can I put my hand down their pants?
        
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        September 4, 2019 1:41pm
      - cmm
        
        Boys will be boys, especially when so pissed that their self-regulation is impaired.
        
        That is exactly why some supervision was in order and why the failure was to not supervise this alcohol-fueled shindig properly.
        
        Of course this bloke could never go down (cough), because if he had then Labour higher-ups would too.
        
        Since PriNZess was there earlier she might have said something like “enjoy the party tonight” or something (speculation, put plausible) and the stink could have ended on her lap too.
        
        I suspect huge pressure was brought to bear on the victims. “You wouldn’t want this to impact badly on Labour would you? Sometimes a True Comrade has to put the party first.”
        
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        September 4, 2019 4:17pm
    - Inandout
      
      Tony, I would correct that ‘low level’ statement. It was ‘mid level’ offending, unless we are dealing with half people.
      
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      September 4, 2019 2:39pm
      - cmm
        
        And not left or right, but centre too.
        
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        September 4, 2019 4:18pm
  - Happychappy
    
    And that’s why it was never going any futher than being slapped with a wet bus ticket sent home without being named, being in Government you can get any result , the law is a arse and they say NZ is free of corruption ha ha.
    
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    September 4, 2019 12:03pm
  - Akarak
    
    Is that different from a person/group of people who appear to be intent on carrying out the same action on every pale, stale male in New Zealand?
    
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    September 4, 2019 12:33pm
- sooty
  
  So there is no need for name suspression now then as he’s no longer a pervert!
  
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  September 4, 2019 11:47am
- chaos
  
  Gutted for the victims
  
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  September 4, 2019 11:54am
  - Happychappy
    
    You only have to ask yourself one thing chaos if this was just common assault why did Labour go all out to hide for a couple of months and why has it taken so long to get to court. Because it was sexual assault and the Police have shown there true colors by allowing this to be down graded, Labour done exactly what the did in the Darren Hughes sexual case hidden the facts lied their way out of trouble.
    
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    September 4, 2019 2:43pm
    - chaos
      
      I don’t believe I have said it was common assault
      
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      September 4, 2019 4:08pm
      - Happychappy
        
        No I did not mean to say you said that chaos my point was how can Labour say that after hiding the facts for months and their secretary resigning over the way he handled it. Except my apology if it offended you.
        
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        September 4, 2019 6:40pm
    - cmm
      
      I’m not sure the cops can really do much if the witnesses “reset” their allegations.
      
      “Well at first I thought it was groping, but I was pissed at the time, so maybe I flirted and encouraged it without realising. I was very drunk, sorry I can’t really remember…”.
      
      The Party comes first Comrades.
      
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      September 4, 2019 4:22pm
      - chaos
        
        Let’s wait and see what happens next because one of his victims openly tweeted about him, breaking name suppression, be interesting to see how they feel if they keep tweeting.
        
        8 0
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        September 4, 2019 4:54pm
      - cmm
        
        ” one of his victims openly tweeted about him”
        
        Comrade Victim should think of the Party.
        
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        September 4, 2019 7:13pm
- cmm
  
  This was a party, there is no criminal offending here, there may have been some drunken antics … but there is no criminal offending here at all,”
  
  Except of course for the major offending by the Labour Party in:
  1) Apparently providing the unsafe environment.
  2) Apparently interfering with witnesses and obstructing justice.
  
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  September 4, 2019 11:55am
- Maggie Pie
  
  TBH, I frequently face similar things at work …..
  
  Me: “You may not feel anything from the waist down”
  
  Patient: “Just your tits then?”
  
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  September 4, 2019 12:44pm
  - chaos
    
    Is that when they feel the catheter they didn’t need get rammed in?
    
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    September 4, 2019 1:57pm
    - Scooter
      
      Beware when they say you may feel a little prick
      
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      September 4, 2019 10:50pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Proof of the level required for the the withdrawn charges was likely problematical. The Police have secured convictions by virtue of the plea.
  
  Further the Labour Party has been exposed as most unsavoury in its dealings with youth.
  
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  September 4, 2019 6:00pm
stephieboy

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Breaking news ,

“Brexit: PM Boris Johnson loses key vote in Commons”

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suffered a defeat in the Commons as Tory rebels and opposition MPs won the first stage of their attempt to pass a law designed to prevent a no-deal Brexit on 31 October.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/398074/brexit-pm-boris-johnson-loses-key-vote-in-commons

Tsk, tsk, tsk..
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September 4, 2019 11:50am
Fletch

With the storm coming in the U.S, etc, the perfect movie to watch is Hot Summer Nights (2017)
2 1
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September 4, 2019 12:11pm
burt

Great news people, you can thrust your hands down other peoples pants and as long as they are drunk and you are drunk – it’s not indecent assault !
32 2
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September 4, 2019 12:33pm
- Rodney Randall
  
  Did they plead the “CULTURAL MISTAKE” defense used by the Chinese pecker ‘flicker’ in Christchurch?
  
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  September 4, 2019 12:40pm
- Lance
  
  I think that defense might only work if you are from the political left.
  Righties get arrested for suggesting that someone born a woman is actually a woman and vice versa.
  
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  September 4, 2019 12:43pm
- oob
  
  Desist from misspelling “defence” you idiots.
  
  7 10
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  September 4, 2019 12:52pm
  - Rodney Randall
    
    Meh.
    
    American english versus british english.
    
    License/licence.
    
    Consistency is more important.
    
    Got sand in your vagina boob?
    
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    September 4, 2019 1:34pm
  - burt
    
    That is the most import aspect of this. Thanks.
    
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    September 4, 2019 2:20pm
  - wreck1080
    
    Thanks, you might find this amusing too. . .
    https://imgur.com/cnrTIbA
    
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    September 4, 2019 4:57pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  One of the boys said that he was not drunk at all, in fact, hadn’t even had an alcoholic drink.
  
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  September 4, 2019 1:49pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    By “he”, do you mean the victim of an assault, or the perpetrator?
    
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    September 4, 2019 1:50pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Victim, he said that he had signed something to say that he wouldn’t drink and that he hadn’t.
      
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      September 4, 2019 2:24pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Only if you are part of the protected class (left wing politically connected)
  
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  September 4, 2019 2:31pm
- namron
  
  And you have connections with the Labour Party!
  
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  September 4, 2019 4:29pm
Paulus

Why now that the trial has ended cannot the guilty party be named ?
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September 4, 2019 1:35pm
- chaos
  
  Apparently all he did was assault them so no reason for name suppression now…. but they are seeking permanent name suppression which should be interesting as one of the victims was not afraid to openly tweet about him before this.
  
  19 1
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  September 4, 2019 2:21pm
- Steve Todd
  
  I expect him to be named when he is sentenced in November.
  
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  September 4, 2019 2:21pm
  - chaos
    
    Nope they are seeking permanent name suppression
    
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    September 4, 2019 2:45pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Doesn’t mean he’ll get it.
      
      2 2
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      September 4, 2019 3:24pm
      - chaos
        
        He will get it
        
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        September 4, 2019 4:07pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Maybe so, but if he does, it will be for normal legal reasons (that would apply in respect of anyone), not because the perp is connected to the Labour Party in some way.
        
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        September 4, 2019 5:48pm
      - chaos
        
        Sure, you keep believing that. That will be the only reason he gets it, because no of his parent’s career and the damage it could cause to that parent
        
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        September 4, 2019 6:00pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        I suspect you believe that because it suits you to do so. I say we have an independent judiciary – that does *not* serve the government of the day – and, in this case, as with any other, the law will properly be applied.
        
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        September 4, 2019 6:38pm
- burt
  
  I’m guessing it’s because he’s the son of a high profile labour Party person who was involved in the initial cover up.
  
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  September 4, 2019 2:22pm
- Inandout
  
  Wait a while, it will appear on an offshore site.
  
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  September 4, 2019 2:41pm
alloytoo

I will be curious to see which senior labour people suddenly acquire 21 year old sons on their on line profiles.
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September 4, 2019 1:53pm
- namron
  
  I did a major search of a certain Labour MP who had early connections with the whole Labour Party Youth camp to find that ALL family information and connections from EVERY related website had been removed.
  Enough to start making a person feel a little bit suspicious!!!
  
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  September 4, 2019 4:35pm
MCos

Leader of the UK House of Commons hard at it
https://twitter.com/owenjones84/status/1168984481040125954?s=21
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September 4, 2019 3:02pm
- Ian Hawthorn
  
  A tweet from a twit.
  
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  September 4, 2019 8:37pm
cmm

A bunch of youth get off their faces to the point that some are puking in the bushes and others are so drunk that they can use “I was completely drunk” as a defence.
Labour shrugs their shoulders because they did the right thing by getting the kids to sign something saying they would not take alcohol to the event.

I call bullshit twice:
1) That amount of booze required to get this number of kids drunk (and social media photos showing a pretty open attitude to alcoholic drinks) suggests that this was not just one naughty kid sneaking through a couple of RTDs in their suitcase. I call bullshit that adult organisers were not complicit.
2) Getting kids to sign forms like these means nothing. It is just a way to give plausible deniability. This is a common practice in all sorts of situations (eg. travelling school sports teams). This in itself is not enough to get the adult organisers off the hook.
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September 4, 2019 3:15pm
cmm

Home detention for a two-against-one head stomping that left a victim brain damaged????

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/115532353/christchurch-men-who-stomped-on-mans-head-causing-brain-damage-get-home-detention

“Crown prosecutor Chris White said home detention would be an “appropriate” sentence, given the victims ages, as imprisonment would not assist them “at this part of their life””

Well, dud judge, perhaps the fuckers should have considered the impact on his future before embarking on such violent behaviour.

Geez, remember the old days when HD was limited to minor offences!

I’ll bet a servo pie to a hundred bucks that these fine young men find themselves before the courts again before long.
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September 4, 2019 3:23pm
- kowtow
  
  The Crown refuses to protect victims from unwarranted and excessive violence .
  
  Social contract : torn up , thrown away .
  
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  September 4, 2019 3:37pm
- Jack5
  
  Yep, home detention for two burly thugs who stomped on a man’s head causing brain damage, and who look unrepentant, perhaps even smug, in the photos of them in court (link is in CMM’s post).
  
  It’s a contrast with the 16-year-old lad held in custody for two months for being in possession of the mosques massacre video:
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/115027117/judge-tells-16yearold-possession-of-shooting-video-disrespectful-to-massacre-victims
  
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  September 4, 2019 4:16pm
cmm

Ellis dead with an uncleared name.

Shame, shame, shame on the judicial system.

Not our finest hour.
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September 4, 2019 3:31pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  RIP
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/115536931/convicted-civic-creche-sex-abuser-peter-ellis-dies-while-appealing-convicted
  
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  September 4, 2019 3:34pm
- Jack5
  
  What woke idiot downticked CMM’s 3.31 post?
  
  Ellis was innocent!
  
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  September 4, 2019 4:18pm
  - And your planet is
    
    Not the judicial system, it was the PC brigade crying ‘all men are rapists’ and ‘what about the children’ get entwined with a lot of poorly trained psychologists. All the judicial system is is a slow moving reflection of the society in which it is embedded in. I blame the parents for distrusting a man in a preschool and then picking on the vulnerable one, ie the slightly queer one.
    
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    September 4, 2019 5:05pm
    - cmm
      
      Of course the judicial system failed.
      
      It should have the resilience to stand up to witch hunting and trodden far more carefully wrt accepting the evidence of psychologists.
      
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      September 4, 2019 7:17pm
      - Ian Hawthorn
        
        An arrogance that could not admit the possibility of error.
        
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        September 4, 2019 8:39pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Poor fucker. A curse upon those who are responsible for his conviction and the failure to overturn it. Only upside is that probably saves the crown a few million in compensation.
  
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  September 4, 2019 5:02pm
Maggy Wassilieff

I wonder if Ellis’ Supreme Court Hearing
scheduled for 11-14 Nov can go ahead, now?
https://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/going-to-court/calendar/supreme-court/#november
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September 4, 2019 3:47pm
- chaos
  
  This case saw the start of the witch hunt against male teachers, I hope that it goes ahead.
  
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  September 4, 2019 4:52pm
softail 1450

Maggy, there is no point really, Peters fight was to see his name cleared of ridiculous crazy convictions and that cant happen now ,as you state RIP and what a stain on our justice system in this case…
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September 4, 2019 4:00pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  There must be points of law that were up for consideration.
  
  Anyway, how did this legal travesty happen?
  Why was commonsense, logic missing from go-to-woe?
  What’s to prevent similar legal injustices from occurring?
  
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  September 4, 2019 4:56pm
  - Nookin
    
    Ellis was convicted because “recovered memory syndrome” was all the rage at the time and evidence in court was presented on the basis that the science was reliable and accurate. Unfortunately, the jury bought it.
    
    Seemingly, the processes by which counsellors interviewed the children were not discredited sufficiently to persuade the jury to reject the allegations.
    
    Ellis was not alone:
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/look-it-way/201001/recovered-memory-syndrome .
    
    It is easy to blame the judicial system. Just bear in mind that just as the interview techniques adopted and conclusions drawn by the witnesses involved in the Ellis case were discredited, the scientific evidence in Lundy was also discredited and yet the Lundy (guilty) verdicts gain almost universal applause on Kiwiblog.
    
    Also bear in mind that it is not up to the judiciary to take a proactive approach to hunting down and correcting errors. If they started doing that, the chants about activist judges would get louder by the minute.
    
    Up until now, we have relied on the royal prerogative of pardon to sort out injustices. The courts have played there but in the sense that they have allowed appeals to be brought many years after the event (the Ellis case is one in question).
    
    The issue now is whether the numbers warrant the establishment of an independent tribunal with investigative powers. The likes of Notsofast would demand immediate establishment of such an organisation because, of course, there is not a guilty man in jail in his humble view.
    
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    September 4, 2019 5:21pm
    - Jack5
      
      I suspect the victims’ funeral video influenced posters’ views on Lundy more than scientific tests.
      
      Where is the parallel between scientific tests that were part of the case against Lundy, and techniques of interviewing children which sparked outbreaks of hysteria in several countries?
      
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      September 4, 2019 6:02pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    It’s to do with quality of evidence. Peter was convicted in a time when false memories were being promoted.
    I believe that the use of old memories is very hazardous. I know from the work on my own bio how easy it is to fill in the slots from imagination. I have had to prove the reality of several events. Did I actually participate?
    
    I don’t like historical trials for similar reasons. Once there was a reasonable statute of limitations, now it can be a free for all. Anything past 10 years is dubious.
    
    RIP Peter Ellis.
    
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    September 4, 2019 6:36pm
- cmm
  
  Of course there is a point.
  
  At least half the point of hearing cases like these is so that the judicial system can learn from its mistakes and refine itself.
  
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  September 4, 2019 7:19pm
wreck1080

Fonterra aren’t giving payrises to staff this year…..

Does this mean fonterra salaries will be below market rate and they will lose a ton of employees?

I don’t think so.

Really, the money should come from Theo Speirings for being the worst CEO NZ has ever seen!
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September 4, 2019 4:51pm
And your planet is

News in Stuff today, two thugs stomp a man’s head after punching him unconscious then assault a woman on the street and get 6 and 8 months home detention, another article a man pays his workers before the IRD and gets 11 month home detention.
Obviously have pillage the middle class in order to pay for the street scum.
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September 4, 2019 4:55pm
- DigNap15
  
  Its only collateral damage!
  
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  September 4, 2019 8:44pm
adam ant

Remembering his bravery and dignified bearing as he confronted those vile,baseless allegations.
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September 4, 2019 4:57pm
Nookin

It has been reported that the Supreme Court will be hearing the case regardless of Ellis’s demise and I think that is entirely appropriate. Obviously while Ellis will not be there to see the outcome, he does deserve a more fitting legacy than that currently afforded to him.
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September 4, 2019 4:58pm
- hullkiwi
  
  I am with you Nookin on that. However, I am left wondering how those that persecuted and prosecuted an innocent man are able to live with their consciences?
  
  Sad, news Peter Ellis did not live to hear his name cleared but let us hope his family are able to have that privilege.
  
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  September 4, 2019 6:11pm
  - cmm
    
    “However, I am left wondering how those that persecuted and prosecuted an innocent man are able to live with their consciences?”
    
    Easy (for the kids anyway).
    
    As I said in https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/07/good_luck.html it is really easy to implant false memories in kids. I did this (inadvertently) in the 1970s.
    
    That this happens has been well known for yonks and it is a travesty that this was accepted as evidence.
    
    There is no distinction between memories of historical events and planted memories. From the perspective of the kids, these are real memories and any suffering from the memories is equally painful.
    
    They 100% believe those memories because they are real even though the historical event did not happen.
    
    Thus the adults (often parents) who planted the memories in the kids not only framed an innocent man, but also inflicted real suffering on their children.
    
    All bloody terrible
    
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    September 4, 2019 7:31pm
Swifty

Read it and weep.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/115537754/filthy-unclad-kids-on-the-street-as-gluesniffing-carer-wanders-off
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September 4, 2019 5:49pm
- cmm
  
  Where do you even start?
  
  I hope charges follow for the parents who deserted their kids in the “care” of an unsuitable person.
  In many ways they’re far worse than the woman who actually copped it.
  
  Poor bloody kids!
  
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  September 4, 2019 7:39pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Doesn’t say much for whanau care.
  
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  September 4, 2019 7:58pm
chaos

Hmm, so Megan woods says that that they won’t bloody Mindly follow a policy set two years ago that isn’t working. Guess that gives way for Cindy to claim the tax system isn’t working and I know I said I wasn’t going to but I’m going to bring in a cgt.
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September 4, 2019 6:10pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  Hi chaos, would you email me, please
  chuckbirdnz@gmail.com
  
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  September 4, 2019 7:29pm
- cmm
  
  Dear PriNZess and Megan Woods.
  
  You made some promises, then when things didn’t turn out as you said: “oops reset”.
  
  Well you’re not turning out as you promised. Can we also say “oops, reset” and get rid of you?
  
  If a company provided a product as bad as yours they’d be in front of the Commerce Commission for false advertising and the SFO would be on the case for fraud, but when your mob does it it’s Ok?
  
  How the hell does that work?
  
  Can I have my 2018/2019 tax back since you failed to deliver on the contract?
  
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  September 4, 2019 7:45pm
Jack5

An interesting post on Simon Bridges and Beijing at:
https://croakingcassandra.com/
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September 4, 2019 8:26pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Labour Party camp: Spat between lawyers about whether sexual offending occurred after plea deal
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12264837
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September 4, 2019 8:32pm
- Tall Man
  
  Nothing but a deal done to hideaway a dirty little pervert.
  
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  September 4, 2019 8:43pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

Ominous, 5.2 earthquake 5km under lake taupo earlier this evening, many aftershocks:
https://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake
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September 4, 2019 8:42pm

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