General Debate 9 October 2019

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fernglas

From where I’m sitting, the UK is looking like a collection of muppets. Whatever the EU may have done to them, they have inflicted worse on themselves. The mother of all Parliaments is now an embarrassment to democracy
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October 9, 2019 8:05am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  That’s how democracy works. In the short term Brexit will be painful but in the long term Britain will be better off out of the EU. Voters want to exit but politicians care more about short term effects because in the long term they are not standing for election anymore.
  
  You need a way to implement constitutional change that bypasses the people currently elected. The Westminster system doesn’t have that. The process of replacing the politicians with ones that will do what the voters want is mess and time consuming.
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:11am
  - cmm
    
    The situation they are in highlights one of the biggest issues that is actually caused by being in the EU: the interests of the British people and the politicians are no longer aligned.
    
    The people want out, but the politicians – of all stripes – still want in. Why?
    
    Pretty simple really. The best gig for a politician is to get plugged into the European political structure. That’s where the real gravy is. Regardless of what the people want for the UK, they want to keep connected to that trough.
    
    It’s a bit similar to what we have going on here. We are an annoyance to PriNZess, but a necessary stepping stone on her quest for the UN.
    
    #CinD4UN(+Nobel)
    
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    October 9, 2019 9:19am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Further, I believe the Brits missed the obvious in this, “negotiation”.
    The fact that in the short term Britain will be worse of and will recover (they have countries queuing up to sign trade agreements [esp. USA])
    The EU will be worse of (More than the UK) but will not recover as quickly and may never recover.
    With boat anchors of Greece, Italy and Spain.
    Bet the Poms are thrilled they never gave up the pound for the Euro.
    
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    October 9, 2019 10:26am
    - Paulus
      
      And the Stg49 billion a year that the UK subsidises for membership.
      
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      October 9, 2019 1:45pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        and Stg80 bill of trade deficit with the EU….
        Better off in???….Yeah right.
        
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        October 9, 2019 1:57pm
- Fletch
  
  Those in power are determined to thwart the democratic will of the people and remain in the EU. The Brexit is a brexit in name only. For all intents and purposes, they want business as usual.
  
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  October 9, 2019 10:03am
KevO'Brien

The future hot or cold? Some useful charts.
https://edmhdotme.wordpress.com/there-is-no-man-made-climate-emergency/
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October 9, 2019 8:05am
- rightoverlabour
  
  very nice simple summary. Even an Idiot will understand this. Yes, come in the usual bunch….
  
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  October 9, 2019 8:32am
  - cmm
    
    Correction: Even an Idiot could understand this.
    
    There’s none so blind as he who will not see.
    
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    October 9, 2019 8:55am
    - rightoverlabour
      
      Yup at least 1 moron has made their presence felt
      
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      October 9, 2019 9:13am
  - kowtow
    
    The media , pollies , anti capitalists and vegans .
    
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    October 9, 2019 10:07am
Paulus

In my business days it was called Creative Accounting – where is the money Grant ?
In Railways writedowns – money ?
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October 9, 2019 8:07am
- igm
  
  In the Robertson family “creative accountancy” is a given!
  
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  October 9, 2019 8:19am
- Gandolfo
  
  The Debt Management Office has not been told about the surplus, they keep issuing debt, the next tranche about 2 billion…..again…
  
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  October 9, 2019 8:33am
  - virtualmark
    
    They are always issuing new debt, to replace old debts that have come due. That’s how it works …
    
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    October 9, 2019 8:44am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The surplus is a myth–there’s no cash to spend in it.
    The DMO has to repay Govt loans as they fall due and that takes cash. It is common to issue fresh debt to bring in replacement money.
    
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    October 9, 2019 6:04pm
- chaos
  
  Be fair to Robbo, his father taught him…….
  
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  October 9, 2019 8:50am
- rightoverlabour
  
  I thought there was no money for the teachers and the nurses and what about the DHBs….
  
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  October 9, 2019 6:37pm
oldpark

Heard a financial mouthpiece talk about Grant Robertsons’pumped up and massaged state of the books for the year ended june. Which infact ran from the previous year 2018/9.
The mouthpiece said Robertsons report was “coming from behind” wonder was that a Freudian Slip. The mind boggles.
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October 9, 2019 8:09am
Maggie Pie

LOVE ME TENDER ~~~ LOVE ME TRUE 🙂

Waikato Mongrel Mob boss clashes with Simon Bridges –

“Not every gang member is a criminal and not every criminal is a gang member, yet Bridges approach puts us all into the category that we are all criminals …
peopke need to recognize the good works and transformation that is happening within
THE MONGREL MOB KINGDOM”

https://twitter.com/NewshubNZ/status/1181626812138287105
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October 9, 2019 8:10am
- chaos
  
  A gang member is a labour voter that just needs extra hugs
  
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  October 9, 2019 8:50am
  - Tall Man
    
    They have a “special hug”…. much like labour!
    
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    October 9, 2019 9:05am
- Happychappy
  
  You might Maggie but l wouldn’t trust them as far as I could kick them and those at the top have a great lifestyle from those they recruit to do there dirty work.
  
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  October 9, 2019 8:56am
- Jules99
  
  I guess Bridges just lost all the MM votes. He’s probably worked out that amounts to zero losses.
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:26am
- RW Capitalist
  
  “Not every gang member is a criminal …”
  No just most….
  I am sure you could find ONE who isn’t…YET or have they just not been caught yet?
  
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  October 9, 2019 10:19am
  - Blackbob
    
    You’re not aware of the joining requirements to get a patch? You have to commit crime to be patched.
    
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    October 9, 2019 11:59am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      And my partner said he read somewhere that all the other gang members have to do wee’s on the latch and you’re not allowed to wash it – ever 🙁
      
      Wonder what they’ll do in the new women’s chapter?
      
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      October 9, 2019 12:46pm
Maggy Wassilieff

NZ Government finally stops giving money to the dodgy Clinton Fund.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12274531

Australia saw the light a few years back
https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/australia-ceases-multimilliondollar-donations-to-controversial-clinton-family-charities/news-story/219577919ed8dfbd79cf808321234eba
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October 9, 2019 8:13am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  MW,” dodgy Clinton Fund ” ??
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_crazies
  
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  October 9, 2019 8:17am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    I guess we wouldn’t expect you to understand steph
    
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    October 9, 2019 9:07am
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Ahh, Fuck off.
    
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    October 9, 2019 9:27am
- Scott
  
  Good points Maggy. The Clinton foundation was actually a slush fund for the Clinton’s where overseas countries and businesses could seek to buy influence from secretary of state and about to be Potus Hillary Clinton.
  They used the money to enrich themselves. When they did “help” other countries, for example, Haiti, they exploited the situation to enrich their buddies. The people of Haiti who were ruthlessly exploited now hate the Clinton’s.
  If you were running a business you could get what you want with secretary of state Hillary Clinton by a donation of millions of dollars to the Clinton foundation and then have Bill Clinton speak to your company for a fee of hundreds of thousands of dollars.
  
  It’s a shame we donated to these crooks at all.
  
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  October 9, 2019 8:20am
  - backster
    
    Modus operandi seems similar to the operation of the Provincial Growth Fund.
    
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    October 9, 2019 9:10am
    - sooty
      
      Even Helen Clarks ripoff!
      
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      October 9, 2019 9:38am
    - Bell-47
      
      Correct, clearly demonstrated by Money Train Jones and his “reciprocity” comments to the forestry industry.
      
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      October 9, 2019 9:53am
  - stephieboy
    
    Scott, what’s missing is the evidence!
    
    Again,
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_crazies
    
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    October 9, 2019 9:35am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      So that’s your new technique is it, stephieboy?
      
      You just keep posting something that was down-ticked into oblivion.
      
      Do tell us why NZ taxpayers should keep pouring money into the Clinton Foundation.
      
      Tell us why the CoL has made the wrong decision.
      http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1910/S00083/government-pulls-pin-on-clinton-foundation-funding.htm
      
      Some background:
      https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/clinton_foundation_2018-19
      
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      October 9, 2019 11:07am
      - stephieboy
        
        MW, the TaxPayers Union can think what it wants but my point is that the conspiracies whirling around about the Clinton Foundation are largely untrue,
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Foundation–State_Department_controversy
        
        The decision by the government to end the donations to it were unrelated to allegations of wrongdoing or malfeasance etc by the foundation!
        
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        October 9, 2019 11:44am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        The TaxPayers Union can think what it wants
        
        Well that’s the whole point isn’t it, stephieboy?
        The NZ Taxpayers union had been fighting for a better use of our Taxes.
        
        But you just wanted to put up a post on Clinton crazies…
        
        So if you weren’t stalking me..
        
        do you think the NZ Taxpayers Union are Clinton Crazies?
        
        https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/our_team
        You do realise that would implicate our host as crazy, don’t you?
        
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        October 9, 2019 2:25pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      @Moderators
      
      If you check stephieboy’s link on Clinton crazies, it has nothing to do with the Clinton Foundation or the Clinton Health Action Initiative… which is the subject of my postings.
      
      This is just another attempt of stephieboy to attach ad-homs/abuse/ smears to my posts.
      
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      October 9, 2019 11:12am
      - calendar girl
        
        Stephieboy still insists on stalking you, Maggy. It’s creepy.
        
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        October 9, 2019 11:19am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @Calendar girl
        
        Yes it is obsessive…and now I see he is trying to divert attention away from his double posting on Clinton crazies to one on the Clinton Foundation.
        
        But he refuses to address the NZ funding … which was the topic of my post.
        
        However, as the moderators only seem to view stephieboy’s obsessive harassments as one-offs and don’t consider the years of abuse he has wreaked against me, I’ll just have to suck it up if I want to keep commenting on this blog.
        
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        October 9, 2019 12:21pm
      - stephieboy
        
        Calander girl, it is not stalking defined by the relevant legislation nor KBs comment policies.
        
        Purely imaginary!
        
        [Mod: It’s not “imaginary” when you’re on the receiving end of it stephie. Please desist; your self-justification only makes things worse. ]
        
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        October 9, 2019 12:46pm
      - tf78
        
        Maggy – re Stephie : like an annoying dog just turn your back on it, ignore and it will go away.
        
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        October 9, 2019 5:28pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @tf78
        
        I ignored nasty abuse from Griff… until he declared his intention was to destroy my reputation for anyone searching for my name.
        
        I tried to ignore all the taunts that I was mad, deranged, hysterical etc from stephieboy (and others) for over 1 year..then stephieboy started calling me racist and asserted that I was an alt-righter and posted links to neo-nazi symbols and literature.
        
        I am not prepared to have my family’s name linked to Naziism just because some anonymous troll knows he can get away with it.
        
        You may think I should ignore the posts of someone who lies about my personal life and enquires about my underwear, but I’d rather draw everyone’s attention to the shit I am exposed to on this blog.
        
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        October 9, 2019 6:13pm
      - Michael
        
        Maggy
        I don’t understand why the mods and DPF don’t eject Stephieboy from Kiwiblog with these continuous attacks against you?
        
        What am I missing here?
        
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        October 9, 2019 7:51pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @Michael
        What am I missing here?
        
        Buggered if I know.
        Not my blog, not my rules (tho’ I’ve never contravened our Host’s rules).
        
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        October 9, 2019 10:23pm
- Scott
  
  According to snopes the Clintons made $240m since leaving office in 2001.
  Let that sink in.
  That’s high minded sacrificial public service right there!
  
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  October 9, 2019 8:24am
  - Batman
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    How much has the Trump organisation made off taxpayers in the last 2-3 years?
    
    Or is lining your pockets via taxpayers better than making money privately?
    
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    October 9, 2019 8:42am
    - Scott
      
      Batman – “In 2016, Forbes estimated Trump’s net worth at $3.7 billion, and Bloomberg $3 billion. During the three years since Trump announced his presidential run in 2015, Forbes estimated his net worth declined 31% and his ranking fell 138 spots.”
      
      But thanks for asking. Remember not everything is about Donald Trump. Just focus on what the Clintons did. That is major industrial strength corruption right there. Ask yourself how was it that they made so much money since Bill Clinton left office?
      Ask yourself how come countries gave millions of dollars to the Clinton foundation when Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State? Note that those donations have now dried up. Why is that?
      
      The obvious answer is that the Clinton foundation was a way for countries to buy influence with then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
      
      Then ask yourself why did companies pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to Bill Clinton for a single speech? That must’ve been a great speech! Or was it because that they could buy influence with then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton?
      
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      October 9, 2019 8:49am
      - Bell-47
        
        BURN
        Scott 1
        Batman 0
        
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        October 9, 2019 9:55am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        I said it last year, I believe Trump will be the first President in a very long time, to leave office (hopefully not till after his 2nd term) poorer than he went in.
        
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        October 9, 2019 10:14am
    - Tall Man
      
      Trump “Made”.
      
      Clintons “Stolen” or Extorted”.
      
      You figure it out.
      
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      October 9, 2019 8:50am
    - mandk
      
      Evidence that he has made any money?
      
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      October 9, 2019 8:53am
    - Ed Snack
      
      And there it is, stupidest comment on KB today. And given Stephie’s near constant monopolisation of that award, it takes a pretty good effort to get to the top.
      
      Typical drive by TDS sufferer comment. Have you thought of therapy for your derangement Batman ?
      
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      October 9, 2019 10:10am
      - Batman
        
        Shit you guys are useless.
        
        Scott posts an old link about Trump’s incompetence causing his value to fall BEFORE he was in the race or elected. So that’s strike one.
        
        And Scott, paid speeches are a well-known thing for anyone even semi-famous. Hell, even Wendy Petrie from One News makes a decent bit of change from paid gigs as a conference and event MC!
        
        You don’t think that Wall Street or business groups would pay good money to hear a former President or Secretary of State talk about their experiences and insight into government?
        
        Have you been in a coma up until the last few years or something? Or maybe just partisanly dishonest because it suits you?
        
        Has the Trump Org made money from the Presidency? Let’s see….
        
        Here
        https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/09/04/trump-presidency-spawns-conflicts-of-interest-personal-profits-column/2197263001/
        
        Here
        https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2018-03-05/how-is-donald-trump-profiting-from-the-presidency-let-us-count-the-ways
        
        Here
        https://nyti.ms/2Gn4T4O
        
        Here
        https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/29/ireland-paid-trump-resort-100k-for-hosting-officers-protecting-him
        
        Now I’m sure all the screaming skulls who live to defend Trump will tell me I’m wrong and screech fake news blah blah blah, but frankly I don’t care.
        
        Of course we don’t really know how much the Trump Org is making, because they refuse to hand over financial information as required by law. Another point for the articles of impeachment.
        
        There’s no real way to wriggle out of the fact that the wider Trump organisation is making money inappropriately from governments, US and foreign. The Trump fans have turned into the same sort of cognitively dissonant shills that we all used to accuse the left of being.
        
        Remember the Emoluments clause? Way back in the early days of 2017 when that was a thing?
        
        Ed – you fellas might like to seek therapy for your cultish devotion to a low-rent mob boss. You’re going to have to eventually, when all the swamp Trump isn’t draining but filling up, starts splashing back at you.
        
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        October 9, 2019 2:30pm
      - Bell-47
        
        @Batman all those sources with the exception of USA Today (centre though mostly lean left) are all well known, Marxist infested tabloids that barely qualify as news outlets.
        
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        October 9, 2019 3:01pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Batman, so a $500K speaking gig from Putin’s favourite bank right at the time that the Uranium One deal was going through (and HRC was SoS) was completely open and innocent. Sure, and I have this bridge for sale that you might be interested in…
        
        You might also be interested to know that one WJC was in the Uranium One scam right from the start. He was employed by Frank Giustra to “stroke” the Kazakh President so Frank and friends could buy the Kazakh Uranium reserves (that were the real jewel in Uranium One) for a song from officials who were acting on their own behalf not the state’s behalf. Bill flew to Kazakhstan with FG when the deal went down. After laundering the assets through various companies mainly through reverse takeovers eventually Uranium One emerged which was bought out by allies of Vladimir Putin. So the Clintons were not in any sense unaware of the history, though no doubt the $130M or so that came their way (into the foundation) while the deal was being made and completed would help them forget anything that was needed to be forgotten.
        
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        October 9, 2019 5:48pm
- sooty
  
  Yes, but what else are we funding?
  That was only health!
  
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  October 9, 2019 8:30am
  - sooty
    
    Now we just need to stop funding the old witches one as well!
    Labour will have hidden that one well!
    Lobourite not got her nose in the trough, yer pull the other one!
    
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    October 9, 2019 8:34am
- kowtow
  
  Six years of giving them money . Since 2013. I’d love to know who thought giving our taxes to the Clinton gang was a good idea.
  
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  October 9, 2019 10:11am
stephieboy

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
You have to wonder scrolling through the posts last evening why the Trump fan base didn’t pick up this recent tweet from their master,
·
“As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off-limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!). They must, with Europe and others, watch over…”

https://mobile.twitter.com/eugenegu/status/1181233491876315138

Note “ ..in my unmatched wisdom “! It of course beggars belief but to his followers sure beats Jesus or Buddha or even say the deluded David Koresh of Waco infamy ·
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October 9, 2019 8:14am
- Scott
  
  Stephieboy – what Donald Trump is doing I think is called “trolling”.
  I would have thought that is something that you would have known something about?? 🙂
  
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  October 9, 2019 8:51am
- chaos
  
  Perhaps you should learn to read, Maggie pie posted that yesterday. Damn you can’t get anything right can you.
  
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  October 9, 2019 8:52am
  - stephieboy
    
    chaos, oh did she just! And the reaction?
    
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    October 9, 2019 9:37am
    - chaos
      
      Go find it and read it yourself
      
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      October 9, 2019 10:42am
- Maggie Pie
  
  It’s not often you’re right stephie, but you’re wrong this time.
  You may well ‘scroll through’ the posts – but you obviously dont read anything.
  LOL!!!
  
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  October 9, 2019 8:56am
  - stephieboy
    
    Maggie Pie, your reaction to,
    
    “..in my great and unmatched wisdom..,”
    
    Approval?
    
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    October 9, 2019 9:38am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      ABSOLUTELY!
      In a lot of ways Trumpy reminds me of my partners dad.
      
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      October 9, 2019 12:39pm
      - stephieboy
        
        WOW! What else?
        
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        October 9, 2019 12:47pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        When i first met him he did try to playfully grab my pussy a couple of times. And whenever he comes over he always insists i make him a sammie.
        
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        October 9, 2019 2:05pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Ahh, Fuck Off
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:28am
Happychappy

Just a Question for you NZ First voters out there, seeing this is old data and complaints from former members of the Winston First Party do you think that he could of leaked this information to get votes as many thought he did last Election on his Pension details.
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October 9, 2019 8:17am
- chaos
  
  To me, not a NZ first supporter, but there were two options for last elections leak
  
  Winston to get people behind him
  The greens to try and get Winston out of the equation to form a two party govt with labour.
  
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  October 9, 2019 8:59am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I strongly believe that the leak of Peters’ superannuation cock-up came from within NZF. That is based on:
    
    1) The issue had already been resolved with MSD, so it wasn’t really going to damage Peters
    2) Peters lives on publicity, and he wasn’t getting any because of Jacindamania. What better way to get the spotlight back on him than a “scandal” for which he could noisily accuse National of dirty politics?
    3) The story broke on the weekend of National’s campaign launch in Auckland. Why would they sabotage that to score a hit on Peters which really wasn’t that much of a hit?
    4) Winston Peters is as cunning as a shithouse rat.
    
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    October 9, 2019 9:18am
    - sooty
      
      The only question is,
      Will he go out on a high.
      Will he go out on a low.
      
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      October 9, 2019 9:42am
      - Tall Man
        
        I don’t really care as long as he does “go”.
        
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        October 9, 2019 2:18pm
Simon

NBA grovelling to CCP because of shirt sales in China or some shit or South Park banned in China because they wont grovel. Thats the options with dealing with the CCP.

Either suck CCP cock for a few gold coins or actually have standards. Western standards. Look at all the New Zealanders sucking CCP cock for a few gold coins.

When Clark signed first “free trade agreement” China was a pretty bad but getting semi ok country. The trend was the right direction. However China under the Xi is a fast degenerating shit hole.
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October 9, 2019 8:25am
- Tall Man
  
  Every action has a start. Perhaps you could start an anti China trade “movement”. Purge everything from your life made in China or from China based products.
  
  Guess you won’t be posting on here ever again…. sad eh?
  
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  October 9, 2019 8:54am
  - chaos
    
    How dare you, you have taken away my cheap Chinese clothes with your boycott, you have ruined my life, there are Chinese people dying because they can’t give me cheap products, entire ecosystems are collapsing, you came to us children for help, now you turn your back on us p, give us the finger, and do what ever you want
    
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    October 9, 2019 9:02am
    - Tall Man
      
      And yes, I ate the fucking doughboys and left you the crappy potatoes…….
      
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      October 9, 2019 9:25am
      - chaos
        
        I will swap you the doughboys for driving around in some creepy old guys Tesla
        
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        October 9, 2019 9:37am
      - Tall Man
        
        Sorry mate, doughboys win hands down…… My fear would be the Tesla came with a bit of quid pro quo….. and no bloke gets to shove his hand down my pants, that’s why I never joined labour I suppose.
        
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        October 9, 2019 2:17pm
- MCos
  
  If one of the top dogs at Fonterra was to Tweet a message supporting the Hong Kong protesters and the Chinese mainlanders boycotted their products, NZ would potentially be in the shit.
  We’ve been through this before when the Rainbow Warrior bombers were gaoled.
  We grovel endlessly to bigger countries to ensure our survival in this mean old world and if some government pokes it’s head above the parapet it get shot down from fire front and rear.
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:20am
slightlyrighty

This Government has found 7.5 billion.

This government, when negotiating with teachers, claimed that there was no money in the kitty.

Has this government engaged in bad faith negotiations? I expect some ructions from the PPTA and other associated unions. Watch this space.
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October 9, 2019 8:26am
- Batman
  
  They haven’t “found” anything.
  
  They have overcharged taxpayers to the tune of $7,500,000,000
  
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  October 9, 2019 8:39am
  - Tall Man
    
    Incorrect again Batman.
    
    They have manufactured a false surplus. Burying debt plus asset revaluations with zero actual benefit is not a surplus. Altering the tax treatment via IRD to the tune of $1 billion is just a con for the thickos. I never saw you as a thicko but I am prepared to accept I may have been wrong 😉
    
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    October 9, 2019 8:56am
  - SGA
    
    I’m not sure that I follow all the brouhaha about the “surplus”. It is hard to cut through the partisan politics. So…
    
    As I understand it, some of the $7.5 billion is about restructured accounting and the true surplus is about 3 billion (say, as a hypothetical working figure?).
    In terms of a government’s total income and expenditure, I’d imagine that while 3 billion sounds a lot, it isn’t a huge amount. It would reflect what percent of taxation (GST, Income, Company) – 1%, 0.5%, 0.25% (I don’t know)?
    If a National government reported a surplus of that extent, then I’d be thinking that they were showing prudent economic management.
    If we have run a small (to me it seems small anyway) surplus, then I would happily see it spent on things like necessary infrastructure (what’s the price tag on Dunedin’s new hospital, for example).
    
    But I’m not an economist…
    
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    October 9, 2019 9:05am
    - Tall Man
      
      “But I’m not an economist…”
      
      Be grateful for that small mercy…. but you do seem a wise man….. most of the time 🙂
      
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      October 9, 2019 9:24am
- chaos
  
  large part of it is just a paper surplus from changing the way they value kiwi rail
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:01am
- Fletch
  
  Also, the govt owes health professionals half a billion dollars in holiday pay. That’s that gone already.
  
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  October 9, 2019 10:18am
Tall Man

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/10/simon-bridges-mongrel-mob-boss-clash-over-gangs.html

A very disingenuous article.

How about the lazy journalist do a bit of research into “gang violence” in the Waikato region. List drug convictions, family violence and other crimes directly connected to the local “family oriented” gang.

Good for Simon Bridges making a stand.

“You want to talk, get out of your criminal gang”.
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October 9, 2019 8:36am
Tall Man

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/05/revealed-how-white-supremacists-terrorised-new-zealand-for-decades.html

What a truly pathetic person gower is.

If there has been any “race based group” terrorising New Zealand I would say the mongrel mob and black power would be starters.
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October 9, 2019 8:44am
- The King
  
  He’s basking in the government hiding race based crime stats.
  
  If NZ’r knew how much crime and murders were perpetrated by brown people they would be mortified.
  
  The % per capita would exceed America.
  
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  October 9, 2019 11:42am
  - Batman
    
    Those stats are published. They’re not hidden.
    
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    October 9, 2019 11:47am
DRHILL

No matter how I feel about Winston Peters and New Zealand First…..No one deserves to have their personal information leaked, hacked and spread around in public.
I don’t care if you are left, right or centre.
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October 9, 2019 8:44am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Winston Peters has built his entire political career on leaks; the Maori Loans Affair, the Cook Strait Ferry, the Winebox, and many, many more.
  
  That he has come unstuck as the result of a leak is rather karmic in nature. Let’s not forget his attack on Simon Bridges when National released Budget information that they found unsecured on Treasury’s website:
  
  But Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters was not holding back when he spoke to media this afternoon.
  
  He said the information obtained by National had been acquired illegally.
  
  Asked if he had seen evidence which proved this, Peters said: “Of course”.
  
  When pressed on how he knew, Peters said it was “my job to know”.
  
  “Information came to them [National] in circumstances where the behaviour was totally illegal and they should have known it,” Peters, said.
  
  “All I can tell you, whilst I’m not prepared to go public with it, is … the facts look very, very bad for the National Party.”
  
  He said Bridges had “made a right fool of himself” and, although he has predicted Bridges downfall numerous times, Peters said he expected the National leader to be “gone-burger” as a result of the saga.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12235580
  
  Bridges, of course, is still not “gone-burger”, and in fact must be sorely tempted to say to the media today “the facts look very, very bad for the New Zealand First.”!!
  
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  October 9, 2019 8:58am
  - Swifty
    
    Peters lied about that.
    
    The man is a disgrace.
    
    NZ deserves better. Much better.
    
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    October 9, 2019 9:14am
    - sooty
      
      Whinestone got Hagared!
      
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      October 9, 2019 9:45am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Asked if he had seen evidence which proved this, Peters said: “Of course”.
    The Adam Shiff of NZ politics?
    
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    October 9, 2019 9:59am
    - stigie
      
      And those are the facts sunshine !~
      
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      October 9, 2019 10:29am
  - Sacha
    
    “the facts”
    Winston has dozens of them hidden away in his secret files. Can’t wait for the leak –
    
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    October 9, 2019 11:08am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Reincarnation of Groucho Marx
      ” I have principles
      If you don’t like them
      I have others”
      
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      October 9, 2019 12:46pm
- Tall Man
  
  And yet many sanctimonious twats criticise those on here who choose to post anonymously.
  
  Has anyone actually considered the possibility that once again “what’s in it for wynston” has orchestrated another”leak” for his own political ends.
  
  The last two times I heard him on Magic I would have to say that he was “deranged”, more so than usual.
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:00am
  - chaos
    
    Funny thing is last time i heard him he ignored all the questions about this leak and just ranted on about bridges, he is starting to remind me of the stalkers on this site.
    
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    October 9, 2019 9:16am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    I used to comment on Whale oil (yes sorry), under my own name.
    Someone looked me up on the companies register and sent “EMails” to my company EMail.
    I have a thick hide and never let an idiot get to me (ie not a snowflake). But would rather not clog me business acct. with this drivel.
    
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    October 9, 2019 10:33am
  - The King
    
    Past presidents have used anonymity, back then it was called ‘pen names’ this happens more when you have an occupation government that uses tools like the police and gcsb to hunt down political opposing views.
    
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    October 9, 2019 12:03pm
- DRHILL
  
  I’m talking about walk of the street people who become paid members of parties, have their name, their personal information put onto a database and then released to the media.
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:28am
  - Ed Snack
    
    I can see how being exposed as stupid enough to join NZ First could be embarrassing to some people, so you do have a point.
    
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    October 9, 2019 10:15am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Guess NZF are just a bunch of nasty and/or incompetent idiots them.
    Been a member of National for decades, never happened to me.
    
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    October 9, 2019 10:35am
- rightoverlabour
  
  Has anyone actually published the details contained in the leaks?
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:31am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    That would contravene the Privacy Act.
    
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    October 9, 2019 11:29am
tedbear

I see Peters is off to the cops again.
He must be on first name terms with the whole Force by now surely.
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October 9, 2019 8:44am
- Tony Stuart
  
  If the test for whether or not you’re a suspect in the NZF leak is that you’re someone who Peters has used then thrown to one side, the Police are going to have tens of thousands of suspects to interview…
  
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  October 9, 2019 8:48am
  - chaos
    
    It’s pretty easy to work out who is and who isn’t a suspect
    
    Question 1. Can you use a computer?
    Oh shit
    Question 1, do you know what a computer is?
    
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    October 9, 2019 9:04am
  - Ed Snack
    
    I thought the list itself was the list of suspects.
    
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    October 9, 2019 10:15am
- stigie
  
  Every man, women and their dogs will be sued !~
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:03am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR5XGTpophI
    Harden up Winnie.
    OOPS you said sued……not sue?
    
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    October 9, 2019 10:38am
slightlyrighty

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/116409225/major-leak-of-nz-first-membership-database-exposes-personal-details

I can’t believe that nobody has twigged to the big question raised by this leak.

These are membership figures for 2016, which show that at this time, NZ First had 351 paying members. NZ Law requires a Minimum of 500 paying members in order to be registered as a political party in NZ.

There are important questions to be asked.

1. How many paying members did NZ First have at the time of the last election.

2. Do they actually qualify as a registered party and did they at the time of the last election?

3. Why did your president resign?

4. Did the leader of a party that does not qualify to be registered as such, dictate the outcome of the last election?
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October 9, 2019 8:46am
- Tall Man
  
  On a humourous note, I’d love to hear that “interview” with what’s in it for wynston”.
  
  It would possibly be the only event to have a higher level of bullshit than the usual ardern statements and non answered questions.
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:03am
- peterwn
  
  I thought that, too. However they seem to be membership lists for particular electorates or groups of electorates, and on that basis they would have the required membership. Also a member who has not yet renewed would still be a member until the final due date for subs, party workers and volunteers would work off such lists when contacting members to renew. I would answer Q1 as ‘over 500’, Q2 as ‘yes’ and hence no need to answer Q4.
  I would not consider NZF to be so daft or under-resourced such as to let the membership fall below 500. Peter Dunne’s United Future party had that difficulty but it was a fading star with a diminishing volunteer base. Even then he pulled together 500 members to stay legit.
  For the avoidance of doubt I am no fan of NZF.
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:25am
  - Charmaine Hawke
    
    This is Winston, he wouldn’t have cared as he knew the media would not expose him.
    
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    October 9, 2019 9:56am
- cmm
  
  Perhaps DPF or one of the other electoral law wonks can chime in:
  
  Is there a difference between the number of members required to first register a party and the number required to remain registered?
  
  ie. Does a party have to deregister if their number falls below a certain threshold?
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:29am
  - peterwn
    
    A ‘member’ would be as defined in the party rules but presumably a membership cannot be ‘perpetual’. Someone would be deemed to be a member is currently paid up or if a renewal is due the member would remain one until a final ‘cutoff’ date.
    As commented below the Party has the obligation to report a membership below 500 but it seems the Commission would need to deregister the party rather than it happening automatically.
    
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    October 9, 2019 12:05pm
- Right of way is Way of Right
  
  Electoral Act 1993 67 (3)
  (3)
  It shall be the duty of the secretary of any political party registered under this Act—
  (a)
  to supply the Electoral Commission with an address for service of all correspondence under this Part; and
  (b)
  to notify the Electoral Commission of any changes in the address for service of correspondence; and
  (c)
  to notify the Electoral Commission whenever a new secretary of the party is appointed; and
  (d)
  to notify the Electoral Commission if the number of current financial members of the party who are eligible to enrol as electors falls below 500; and
  (e)
  subject to subsection (4), to notify the Electoral Commission by way of a declaration in the manner provided by section 9 of the Oaths and Declarations Act 1957 whenever there is any change in the details recorded in the Register of Political Parties in respect of the party under subsection (1)(a)(iii).
  
  Sub Para d looks interesting, so what we may have here is a government appointed by a party that may not, in fact, be legally registered.
  
  If this is the case, is this government actually legally able to govern? Can any of the resident legal beagles provide some clarity around this? Does a party have to be registered in order to be in parliament and receive taxpayer funding?
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:36am
  - cmm
    
    Very interesting.
    
    4(d) does not in iself say that a party needs to have over 500 members, but the implication is that this will be somewhere else.
    
    And this shows up in 70 (2):
    “The Electoral Commission shall cancel the registration of any political party on being satisfied that the number of current financial members of the party who are eligible to enrol as electors has fallen below 500.”
    
    To be governed by a Kingmaker who isn’t even supposed to be an MP is surely par for the course with this government.
    
    Perhaps Winnie has been accepting a deputy PM salary under false pretenses and owes us more than $158k?
    
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    October 9, 2019 11:21am
    - cmm
      
      Well it looks like maybe the 351 number is only for a small part of NZ and they still have over 500 throughout NZ.
      
      With a few billion of taxpayer money in his back pocket Jones should be able to get rent-a-cuzzie to fix the problem.
      
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      October 9, 2019 11:38am
- Raphael
  
  I initially thought the same, but from the article, the information was Auckland-based members only.
  
  The 799 members listed in the undated Auckland membership database leak records details of paying members from as recent as 2016.
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:56am
- namron
  
  Could that mean that the last election was illegal and this CoL should not be our Govt?
  
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  October 9, 2019 10:37am
- oldgolfer
  
  Explosive if true. One can but hope.
  
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  October 9, 2019 10:56am
- Bell-47
  
  As much as I want to believe there is a problem with the number of paid members, the 351 formed part of the Auckland membership database. I’m assuming this is referring to just Auckland and not the rest of the country. That said, 799 party member in total, in Auckland, seems a very small amount of people interested enough to be paying or about to be paying members. To me, that is the real scoop here. In the largest city in the country they can only come up with 799??
  
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  October 9, 2019 11:01am
- Sacha
  
  “These are membership figures for 2016, which show that at this time, NZ First had 351 paying members. NZ Law requires a Minimum of 500 paying members in order to be registered as a political party in NZ.”
  Surely that statement needs investigation – to confirm or correct before everyone starts making a meal out of it.
  
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  October 9, 2019 11:12am
info@cruzpro.com

A $ 7.5 Billion surplus but ran out of Meningococcal and measles vaccines. At least three people died.

We really, really need referendums to be binding so we, the people, have some modicum of control over politicians – from whatever party is in power.
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October 9, 2019 8:56am
Maggie Pie

Word of the day …

AILLEANACH [irish] – an attractive and yet useless man
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October 9, 2019 8:59am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Like a male bimbo?
  
  (Could have a future in politics (as a puppet)).
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:24am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  aka…Eye candy
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:29am
Ian Boag

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
The Government accounts for the eleven months to 31 May 2017 show a surplus of $4.5 billion, $1.5 billion ahead of the budget forecast, says Finance Minister Steven Joyce.

“The rising surplus shows the benefit of a strong economic plan that is delivering consistent growth,” Mr Joyce says. “The primary driver for these results is stronger-than-forecast tax revenues, particularly company tax” Mr Joyce says.

“Animal Farm” comes to mind.

“Nat surplus good, Lab surplus bad”

Go figure
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October 9, 2019 9:15am
- chaos
  
  Even the media that slant to labour admit it is a sloppy surplus made up from shifting the value of KiwiRail and change at ird
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:17am
  - Happychappy
    
    What about the billions they have borrowed for State housing that is not accounted for in these figures.
    
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    October 9, 2019 9:57am
  - Paulus
    
    Stephen Joyce is still right.
    
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    October 9, 2019 1:57pm
- Tall Man
  
  We all realise where your political loyalties lie but a more simple statement would be
  
  National surplus fact
  
  coalition surplus fabricated.
  
  You don’t need to be a genius to “read between the lines”.
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:22am
  - Ian Boag
    
    “Roughly half of it is one-off things like revaluing railways, you can’t do that every year, but $4 billion of it is real,” Brash told The AM Show.
    
    So about the same as the 2017 Joyce surplus give or take a bit ….
    
    Your political loyalties are pretty clear too. Nothing wrong with that. But I guess your jollies come from going for the man rather than the ball ….
    
    I missed your normal “slap”. “numbnuts”? “moron?” and all that other clever stuff. Come on – hit me with your best shot. Call me something “girl” ….
    
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    October 9, 2019 9:54am
    - Happychappy
      
      We have to Ian as you already know.
      
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      October 9, 2019 9:59am
      - Ian Boag
        
        ??????
        
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        October 9, 2019 10:49am
    - alloytoo
      
      and Joyce planned and legislated tax cuts which this government reversed.
      
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      October 9, 2019 11:56am
    - Tall Man
      
      Only a real idiot asks to be insulted.
      
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      October 9, 2019 12:31pm
      - Tall Man
        
        And then downticks the person that points out the stupidity of that request.
        
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        October 9, 2019 2:07pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Aw gee Shorty. Always the man with the last word. I don’t really do downticks …
        
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        October 9, 2019 7:23pm
- Right of way is Way of Right
  
  Also, when National generated a surplus, it wasn’t done by cooking the books, and they then legislated tax cuts, which the Labour Led coalition promptly cancelled, or have you forgotten that?
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:38am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Labour’s manufactured “surplus” missing
  Borrowing in housing sector, reducing it by billions
  Massaging of kiwi rail numbers etc
  National’s surplus in an environment of:
  Nearly 4% growth
  falling unemployment (not the fake employment No.s labour put out)
  Companies expanding not going bust (Mars in Wanganui is just the start)
  Companies not paying invoices on time.
  Other things National achieved that labour has failed at
  Measles
  Meningitis
  They poured money into the health sector to keep promises to their union buddies, but not to increasing clinical care.
  If Labour as opposition had called the current situation a crisis (a word they bandied about, with no actual facts) I would have agreed.
  But the simple thing is:
  Under National things GENERALLY worked well and improved the situation at hand.
  Under these clowns EVERYTHING has got worse and no amount of lying about or massaging numbers to claim a surplus in Govt. accounts while the rest of us fight to keep our businesses alive.
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:50am
  - Sacha
    
    “Under National things GENERALLY worked well and improved the situation at hand.”
    – and that is why they had a 3 term government. We don’t expect everything to be perfect all of the time, and it is clear that most of the population was busily getting on with their lives, knowing that the country was in safe hands. Many voters forgot that and voted for inexperience, naivety and amorphous ideals.
    As soon as the government changed, the disruption started – strikes, protests, trivial media campaigns, and society changed too.
    
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    October 9, 2019 11:42am
    - Tall Man
      
      It will take many years to regain that status again.
      
      The door has been opened a crack and the greedy little labour bludgers will move heaven and earth to stay firm;y fixed at the trough.
      
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      October 9, 2019 2:07pm
- kowtow
  
  Animal Farm does come to mind . Like the full food bins on display to impress visitors , this “surplus” is likewise fake .
  
  Only thickos ,the willfully blind and the self deluded are taken in by it.
  
  Orwell 101.
  
  Repeat after me , I love Big Brother.
  
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  October 9, 2019 10:21am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Big Brother was “1984” not “Animal Farm”.
    
    The surplus has presumably been signed off, so I guess you would point the finger at Treasury as part of the wilfully blind and self deluded.
    
    Roughly half of it is non-cash stuff. Fair enough to discount that from what is “spendable” or “investable”.
    
    Can someone explain to me how borrowing enters surplus/deficit sums?
    
    It obviously affects the debt level, but if the borrowing is to buy/build assets it does not enter the surplus/deficit sums except via interest on the debt or earnings from the asset.
    
    If the government went out and borrowed a heap tomorrow to build some new roads, the sum borrowed would not affect any surplus or deficit.
    
    If my business borrows money, the sum borrowed does not appear as an expense/income in the profit/loss account.
    
    But I guess if KBEconomics keep repeating this stuff, then it will acquire the status of accepted truth.
    
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    October 9, 2019 10:47am
    - kowtow
      
      Big Brother was “1984” not “Animal Farm”.
      
      Did I say it was ?
      
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      October 9, 2019 10:57am
      - Tall Man
        
        There are some that aren’t keen on mixed metaphors or multiple reference sources.
        
        I prefer to think of those as pedantic smartarses.
        
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        October 9, 2019 2:05pm
- Prince
  
  Joyce legislated tax cuts.
  LAbour cancelled them.
  THere’s the difference.
  
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  October 9, 2019 10:29am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    If the $7.5billion was real, it should have been left in the economy to do some good, instead of in Robertson’s back pocket (as if it was his personal money), doing NOTHING.
    
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    October 9, 2019 10:44am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Some months after the surplus was announced (in May 2017) Joyce announced there would be tax cuts to take effect in April 2018. The tax cut announcement was not all that long before an election. Surprise. I guess that’s how all this stuff works ….
    
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    October 9, 2019 11:42am
lastmanstanding

600 years ago those who claimed the Earth was round not flat were burned at the stake as heretics.

Given the hysteria from Western Governments and some of their citizens I suspect those of us who believe nature is a more powerful force than humans and that climate change is a natural condition, will suffer a similar fate.

Such is the madness of crowds.

In time we like those before us will be proved to be correct.
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October 9, 2019 9:21am
- RW Capitalist
  
  I saw a NEWS item about “kiwi ingenuity”, concerning a drone investigation of a volcano.
  I missed where, when or how because all I could think of, was, how many equivalent days of man made emissions was this thing spewing out every hour of every day?
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:55am
- Random T Person
  
  This is why ‘climate deniers’ bite their lips rather than speaking out. To speak out is to invite ridicule.
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:57am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    Anybody who denies that the climate is changing is a fool.
    But, and it is a big BUT, the climate has been changing for the past million years and I suspect it will continue to change for the next million years.
    It will be easier to stop the tide coming in than it will be to affect climate change.
    
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    October 9, 2019 11:39am
    - alloytoo
      
      Funny thing is, the climate alarmists persistently deny climate change prior to the industrial age.
      
      Medieval warm period for example.
      
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      October 9, 2019 12:16pm
    - Tall Man
      
      I think the term”climate change denier” actually refers to those of us who are well aware that climate like most natural phenomena changes but what we disagree with is the impact made by man and the impact that CO2 makes.
      
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      October 9, 2019 2:01pm
- Raphael
  
  although I agree with your post in general, downvote for perpetuating this myth which stems from an 19th century novel:
  
  600 years ago those who claimed the Earth was round not flat were burned at the stake as heretics.
  
  A non-Christian* source giving the myth a thorough debunking:
  https://historyforatheists.com/2016/06/the-great-myths-1-the-medieval-flat-earth/
  
  * using a non-Christian source to remove any accusations of bias. Tim O’Neill is a great resource.
  
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  October 9, 2019 10:03am
DigNap15

Some people have raised the money that Housing New Zealand borrowed off the books!
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October 9, 2019 9:29am
chaos

* Brash, a former Reserve Bank Governor and National Party leader, says that is making the surplus look better than it really is. Without the railway numbers being included, the surplus is about $4 billion.

“Roughly half of it is one-off things like revaluing railways, you can’t do that every year, but $4 billion of it is real,” Brash told The AM Show.

“It is not all there and it is not huge relative to the size of the Government sector. The Government sector is spending about $80 or $90 billion a year. So $3 or $4 billion is not exactly a rounding error, but it’s not huge.

“The question really is, how do you spend that money if you can’t be sure it is on-going. If you cut taxes or increase welfare or whatever, and it is not there the year after next, you’re in trouble.”………

Brash said his fear is that Finance Minister Grant Robertson will raise spending in all Government sectors, without having any meaningful impact.

“What I fear all he will do is simply increase everything a little bit and that makes everyone feel slightly better but doesn’t make any structural changes.”*

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/10/don-brash-downplays-7-5-billion-government-surplus.html
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October 9, 2019 9:30am
- RW Capitalist
  
  I think Brash is being generous.
  Apart from Kiwirail look for other places they have lied.
  
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  October 9, 2019 9:58am
- pb
  
  As a solid developed western country, New Zealand has a lot of our ancestor’s goodwill and momentum to chew through. It won’t collapse overnight, as exciting as that prospect seems. From Consul Sulla’s initial civil war upon Rome in 85 BC, the Roman empire took another 1800 odd years before it finally collapsed. Good stewardship of a country should be seen as a civic duty and the greatest honour. We have allowed the stragglers of the bolshevik socialist revolution to take charge and will get what we deserve.
  
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  October 9, 2019 10:28am
- Michael
  
  As a household we have 3 months money avail if we need it for emergencies on call.
  Plus 3 months avail from fixed term.
  
  Surely NZ at $80 bn pa has need of a the same?
  A prudent FM would make sure of our immediate needs and carry a safety amount too?
  
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  October 9, 2019 8:10pm
Maggie Pie

Here’s another little tip i thort worth sharing with the group…

Next time you make a Smoothie, try adding a couple tablespoons of a good quality ‘Extra Virgin Olive Oil’. You hardly even no its in there, but it helps provide fab health benefits like lustrous hair, smooth glowing skin, even bowel regularity.

You can thank me later.
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October 9, 2019 9:38am
- cmm
  
  Why not just put the oil directly in your mouth? If it is reasonable quality oil it tastes pretty good as it is.
  
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  October 9, 2019 11:24am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Because it assists with absorption and slows the laxative effect –
    over to you of course 🙂
    
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    October 9, 2019 11:44am
Jack5

The poor bloody Kurds. Betrayed again by the West.

The Kurds have been the West’s most staunch allies fighting ISIS, and now Trump sells them out to Turkey.
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October 9, 2019 9:39am
- The King
  
  No,Kurds are commies and they change sides with whoever pays them the most, they were an Allie with ISIS in 2011.
  
  If you really think America and Israel were ‘fighting isis’ then you know nothing at all..
  
  “In a speech at the Herzliya Conference, Israel’s military intelligence chief, Major General Herzi Halevy, took Israel’s long-standing position that it “prefers ISIS” over the Syrian government to a whole ‘nother level, declaring openly that Israel does not want to see ISIS defeated in the war.”
  
  “Israel treating wounded Al qaida fighters”
  
  https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-Israel-treating-al-Qaida-fighters-wounded-in-Syria-civil-war-393862
  
  (that’s a jewish news website before you close your brain with “muh anti-semitism” screeching)
  
  Isis have never attacked Israel once in 8 years despite being 30k from their border. Yet isis will travel 5000k to attack Europe. Put your thinking cap on.
  
  Putin and Hezbollah were the only real ones fighting isis, Hezbollah lost thousands fighting them, but you’re not supposed to know this.
  
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  October 9, 2019 12:27pm
  - stephieboy
    
    “No,Kurds are commies and they change sides with whoever pays them the most, they were an Allie with ISIS in 2011.
    
    If you really think America and Israel were ‘fighting isis’ then you know nothing at all..”
    
    Garbage!
    
    https://www.businessinsider.com.au/military-leaders-warn-trump-abandoning-ally-grave-mistake-2019-10?r=US&IR=T
    
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    October 9, 2019 1:06pm
  - Jack5
    
    Wow, ~~Kea~~ The King: that link you post to is more than four years old and details Israel treating wounded opponents of the Assad-Hezbollah-Iran mob.
    
    Here’s another view of Trump abandoning the Kurds:
    
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/foolish-beyond-belief-in-syria-trump-just-betrayed-our-allies-and-helped-our-enemies
    
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    October 9, 2019 1:11pm
- Paulus
  
  As I understand there are/was only about 40 US personnel there currently.
  
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  October 9, 2019 2:01pm
stephieboy

“..but doesn’t make any structural changes.”*

Now, what would tinder dry Don have in mind there?
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October 9, 2019 9:42am
- chaos
  
  Of course if you knew anything you would realise don brash is one of the best reserve governors that this country had, and had to deal with one hell of a mess, saving this country from the mess that the Lange government left behind that left this country almost bankrupt
  
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  October 9, 2019 10:38am
Odakyu-sen

A revaluation is little theoretical unless the market for the asset is actually liquid.
I remember translating a real estate report in the wake of the bursting of the Tokyo real estate bubble back in the mid 90s. Someone had a couple of hectares of rural land in Chiba that had been earmarked for development for holiday homes and a recreational facility. The background notes mentioned that sales of similar land in the district had been zero in the last few years. There was no demand for the land at all. And yet, according to the little blue book that the local government uses to assess land rates in that area, the plot “had an assessed value of some $NZ3 million (200 million yen). So, I had to translate the report on the value of the land being that amount, when in fact it was no where near that value.
Any asset is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.
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October 9, 2019 9:47am
- Ian Boag
  
  Any asset is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.
  
  Fair enough. I read somewhere (maybe it was here on KB) that the basis of the revaluation was related to what it would cost to replace.
  
  As you observed, valuation gets a bit harder when the asset is “unique” and “non-liquid” eg how would you assess the value of your local hospital or the roads in your town?
  
  I don’t know if the KRail revaluation is “valid” or not. I would imagine that Robertson would have been quite happy not to have it there in the figures. It is not money he can do anything with.
  
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  October 9, 2019 11:03am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    My understanding is that the valuation is actually based on “benefits” of rail. So they’re basically assigning values to lower emissions, less trucks on the road etc and adding that to the actual value. The value given is utterly worthless as any other form of valuation and completely unusable for any potential sale.
    
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    October 9, 2019 3:41pm
stephieboy

MW, I believe you asked of me a question or two about West Papua New Guinea. Despite attempts to colonise the area by Indonesians independence is a viable option IMO.

Much like East Timor and it will like that former happen if we and the nations rally and support it and bring pressure on the coloniser like at the Pacific Forum,

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/12/indonesia-angered-as-west-papua-independence-raises-its-head-at-pacific-forum,
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October 9, 2019 9:51am
- Swifty
  
  I asked you questions too.
  
  Who is more numerous in Iraq – Shia or Sunni?
  
  What is a high-powered rifle?
  
  Be a man, if you can.
  
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  October 9, 2019 11:15am
  - stephieboy
    
    What is a high powered rifle?
    
    No legal definition but is taken to be one that can fire large rounds ammunition,
    
    CrimeBeat: What exactly is a high-powered firearm?
    
    To be clear, “high-powered” mostly refers to the bullets fired rather than the gun firing them.
    
    “It’s kind of open for interpretation,” said Santa Rosa Police Sgt. Robert Reynolds, who oversees all training at the department, including weapons.
    
    While the term commonly appears in the media, the sergeant avoids using the vague term to describe a firearm.
    
    Reynolds considers any .223-caliber and bigger, to be high-powered. The most common round used in AR-15s is .223-caliber.
    
    “An AR can reach out several hundred yards and do a lot of damage,” he said.
    
    Caliber is the diameter of a bullet measured in 100ths of an inch, so a .223-caliber bullet is .223 inches in diameter.
    
    Some firearms use the metric system where bullets are measured in millimeters, like the Santa Rosa polic…”
    
    https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/8108717-181/crimebeat-qa-what-exactly-is?sba=AAS
    
    DUH!
    
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    October 9, 2019 1:31pm
    - Swifty
      
      DUH! you say?
      
      Well, let’s see about that shall we Stiffy?
      
      I think you haven’t a clue what you’re talking about, throw around the phrase ‘high-powered’ without thinking and have now reached for anything on Google you can put your hands on.
      
      ‘No legal definition but is taken to be one that can fire large rounds ammunition.’
      
      Taken by whom? Not anybody who knows what they’re talking about.
      
      In any list, ANY LIST, of rifle calibres the .223 Remington that you quote (bullet diameter of .224 inch or 5.7mm) is at the small end of the list. (Just for you Stiffboy, that means the bullets are SMALL not big.)
      
      https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rifleman-s-Classic-Cartridge-Poster/321090430576?roken=cUgayN&_mwBanner=1
      
      https://1source.basspro.com/news-tips/hunting-information/7482/use-rifle-caliber-chart-pick-right-ammo-hunting
      
      ‘High-powered’ is a phrase never by shooters or hunters. It’s only ever used by reporters or the police looking to up the emotion when referring to firearms. And you have repeated it without thinking, or knowing what it (doesn’t) mean.
      
      If shooters ever talk about ‘power’ they are inevitably referring to terminal ballistic performance of which bullet size, and weight, is but one of many factors.
      
      Wouldn’t you agree Stiffy?
      
      Or do you not have a fucken clue what you’re talking about – as you confirm with your Google cut and paste?
      
      Even the Sgt agrees: ‘While the term commonly appears in the media, the sergeant avoids using the vague term to describe a firearm.’
      
      But Stiffy is happy to use it!
      
      DUH!
      
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      October 9, 2019 2:44pm
    - cmm
      
      stephie, pushing yourself there…
      
      “To be clear, “high-powered” mostly refers to the bullets fired rather than the gun firing them.”
      
      Following your line of reasoning,…
      
      No, it would be the cartridge, not the bullet.
      
      The same bullet (ie. the thing that flies from firearm to target) can be used in a wide variety of cartridges, some high power, some not.
      
      A high-power rifle, if the term should be used at all, is one chambered for a high-powered cartridge.
      
      Something around the power of an AK47/.223 would generally not be considered a high power cartridge, .308WIN and up generally would be considered high powered cartridge.
      
      For example, there are a wide variety of chamberings in .308 calibre (7.62). A 300 Blackout would not be considered high power and a 308WIN or 30-06 would be.
      
      The very reason the West dropped down from 7.62(.308) to 5.56(.223) was to reduce power. This gives far more control and allows soldiers to fire far more rounds, as proved by Tarrant.
      
      If Tarrant had been using a 7.62/308 and fired 200-odd rounds he’d probably have been puking in the bushes when he was finished. He’s also have needed a backpack to carry ammo.
      
      People that refer to .223 as “high power” are generally people trying to cause alarm and cops, like the Reynolds you quote, are often in that camp.
      
      A few years ago I heard an ex-NYPD cop and “ballistics expert” say that 223s/AR15s are so powerful that hunters don’t even use them for shooting dangerous animals like grizzly bears. Of course Kim Hill, just swallowed what he said.
      
      To further your education, that is complete crap. No sane person would hunt a grizzly with a 223 and people using to shoot deer better know what they are doing.
      
      Bonus marks stephie for telling us the pointless trivia that bullets sometimes come in metric sizings. Llamas are bigger than frogs!
      
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      October 9, 2019 4:52pm
      - Swifty
        
        He hasn’t a clue and will never admit when he’s wrong.
        
        A waste of space.
        
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        October 9, 2019 5:16pm
      - rightoverlabour
        
        Fire arms is a complicated business. I was trained to use the Galil which uses a 5.56mm round. Before that, the standard-issue was the 7.62 FN which had a muzzle velocity of 823m/s. and had an energy rating of 3,470 J .The otherside used the AK47 which had a muzzle velocity of 715 m/s (2,108 J). The 5.56 mm had a velocity of 993 m/s and only 1,755 J, but it tumbled through the target. So the FN would shoot through just about anything, and the AK47 was almost as effective, but the 5.56mm was sensitive to wind and being deflected by vegetation, but when it hit human flesh it created a small entry hole and a crater on the other side. Killing people (or preferably wounding them, as dead soldiers don’t scream – lowering the morale of the group), is a complicated application of physics and engineering reliability. That’s where the AK47 came out trumps. Something our resident Moron knows nothing about.
        
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        October 9, 2019 7:13pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  independence is a viable option IMO.
  
  It might have been a “viable” option at the end of WW2….
  
  but if you knew any history of West Papua, you will know the Papuans were never consulted on what they wanted.
  
  The country passed into Indonesian hands when Indonesia invaded in 1961. USA and Ozzie let it happen.
  
  https://www.freewestpapua.org/info/history-of-west-papua/
  
  The Papuans are being slaughtered.
  Indonesia will not relinquish resource -rich lands.
  
  Pray for the Chinese to invade.. they will be the only hope for the west papuans.
  
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  October 9, 2019 11:39am
  - kowtow
    
    The Red Chinese and Indonesians are big buddies.
    
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    October 9, 2019 12:03pm
- The King
  
  Who cares? stop being White Supremacists and trying to dictate the lives of other brown countries.
  
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  October 9, 2019 12:31pm
rouppe

I note that China has taken direct commercial action against a usa company because of a tweet supporting the Hong Kong protesters.

Specifically I note: “We believe that any comment that challenges China’s sovereignty does not belong in the scope of free expression.”

Yet no (other) government in the world can take sovereign action against any threat – perceived or real – involving another country without being criticised in the name of free expression.
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October 9, 2019 9:51am
- Sacha
  
  Whatever happened to the old rule that ‘entertainers’ keep out of politics?
  Once upon a time sports people and actors kept out of business affairs that they knew nothing about. They concentrated on being the best at what they knew, and keeping their fans interested in their achievements.
  But I guess they get their names in headlines, and that satisfies their egos.
  
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  October 9, 2019 12:04pm
  - kowtow
    
    The situation in HK is very complex.
    I would support the right to peaceful protest , to citizens’ enjoying their right to go about their lives unhindered by the state but ………
    
    ‘A confrontational core of Hong Kong’s antigovernment protesters have acted with greater ferocity in recent weeks, attacking individuals and smashing and torching storefronts, banks, cafes and subway entrances. In a strikingly personal affront, one group even delivered a severed pig’s head to a police officer’s wedding banquet.’
    
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/07/world/asia/hong-kong-protesters-masks-violence.html
    
    BTW , our hugh pav posted the other day that there’s a bank run there , I wonder how that’s going ( didn’t happen)
    
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    October 9, 2019 12:26pm
Maggie Pie

CRY BABY OF THE WEEK!
[or as my partner calls it – yet another reason why you should never be an employer]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12274798
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October 9, 2019 9:58am
- Inandout
  
  MP, are we told if this was his first ‘sickie’? If it was then there may be other reasons his boss took this attitude. Good roofers are well sought after.
  
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  October 9, 2019 10:39am
  - Tall Man
    
    Not enough facts in the article…. not really a surprise these days.
    
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    October 9, 2019 12:25pm
- chaos
  
  I think this is the real cry baby this week
  
  https://almostpopularblog.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/winston-peters-nzh.jpg?w=620
  
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  October 9, 2019 10:39am
- RW Capitalist
  
  The title “Fired over a sickie”
  Implies that he wasn’t really sick, the article doesn’t even mention whether he was telling the truth.
  
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  October 9, 2019 10:52am
  - MCos
    
    Whether he was telling the truth or not in this instance doesn’t appear, from the article, to be at issue.
    If the employer felt the bloke was a lying piece of no good shit he would have taken appropriate steps to fire his sorry arse long before it got to this stage. If he valued him as an employee a sick day would have been no problem.
    
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    October 9, 2019 11:35am
- Bobba Fret
  
  I think there must be a lot more to this story. The boss was stupid to send the text, and stupid to not pay holiday pay / wages owing. No matter what, that needed to be paid on dismissal.
  He possibly wasn’t a great employee but if the story is correct, the company was not a good employer.
  
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  October 9, 2019 11:22am
- srylands
  
  I the facts in the article are correct, I have no sympathy with the employer. You can’t just send someone a text and say “don’t come back”. And there is never any justification for not paying someone wages and holiday pay due.
  
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  October 9, 2019 12:05pm
  - Michael
    
    True, plus process is as important as facts/action/Tesyimony.
    
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    October 9, 2019 8:15pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Do sex offender treatment programmes work?
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-49973318
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October 9, 2019 10:04am
- Tall Man
  
  Not if it doesn’t include a ball peen hammer in there somewhere.
  
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  October 9, 2019 12:23pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Took your advice on that a wee while ago TM. Bought a cute little 8oz model with a luvly blond wood handle from Bunnings. I just keep it in the door pocket of the Q5 and carry it in my handbag at night. If anyone asks about it i just tell them i’m doing a panel-beating course on the side 🙂
    
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    October 9, 2019 1:15pm
    - Tall Man
      
      They are really good for peening a rivet…. and the bridge of a nasty’s nose…..
      
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      October 9, 2019 1:56pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        LOL!!
        My partner only knew i’d bought it when it fell out of my bag one nite in a restaurant. He never said a word. – probably thought it was just part of my make-up kit 🙂
        
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        October 9, 2019 3:46pm
    - mtamati
      
      Bang, bang, maggies’s silver hammer…..
      
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      October 9, 2019 9:21pm
- sooty
  
  I don’t know, you would have to ask Labour as the have had lots of experience with them!
  
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  October 9, 2019 12:47pm
Jack5

You get a good idea of the PC Leftism of the BBC (leant on by our State TV and State radio) from its coverage of the anniversary voyage to NZ of the replica of Cook’s Endeavour.

Today, the BBC features Maori activist Tina Ngata in a clip from the BBC’s “Australian video journalist”.

Tina Ngata in it describes the visit as an anniversary of an “invasion and imperial expansion”.

Surely this Ngata isn’t a descendant of Sir Apirana Ngata, the Maori statesman, who, according to Wikipedia:

… challenged the traditional views of his people, advocating the abandonment of some traditional practices and customary healing in favour of science and Pakeha-style sanitation …

Tina Ngata, in contrast, is a voice of indigenous nationalism, being fostered round the world by the Left.

The BBC clip of Tina Ngata:

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-49956667/nz-anniversary-captain-cook-visited-murder-upon-our-people

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-49956667/nz-anniversary-captain-cook-visited-murder-upon-our-people
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October 9, 2019 10:15am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  and as I posted over on YSB yesterday…
  
  Fabulous morning out on the walkway from Waikanae Beach around to the Harbour… arrived in time to see The Endeavour (sails down) entering the shipping channel and tying up at Wharf
  The protesters (Manu Matuhake flags) weren’t very numerous… 40-50 at tops and were just attending to the TV cameras and reporters… some loud speaker stuff, but the greater proportion of folks (pakeha, Maori & others) were just out for the spectacle of watching the ships, walking their dogs/kids and gassing with each other.
  
  just another day in paradise….
  
  but on TV last night… it just showed protesting folk, not the thousands who were just enjoying the day and the environment.
  
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  October 9, 2019 12:10pm
  - kowtow
    
    Yes, the media are leading charge in depicting NZ as a very racially , culturally, divided country .
    We are never citizens , we are either “pakeha” or Maori , divided , angry , victimised.
    
    It is a very dangerous game they play .
    
    To what purpose ?
    
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    October 9, 2019 12:22pm
    - Prince
      
      Where is this ‘New Zealand’ ?
      The media has renamed it ‘Aotearoa’.
      Get with the program or be labelled as irrelevant or PMS.
      
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      October 9, 2019 1:14pm
    - Michael
      
      Kowtow
      Methinks, Maorisation (apartheid) of NZ.
      
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      October 9, 2019 8:17pm
  - Jack5
    
    Maggie’s observation confirms that that the protests are being exaggerated by the Leftist media, notably Radio NZ and TVNZ.
    
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    October 9, 2019 12:57pm
RW Capitalist

https://www.national.org.nz/labour_wants_another_tax
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October 9, 2019 11:03am
Cobolt24

We don’t have a true surplus. We’re actually going backwards, the government and the media are lying to us

2017 $2.5 bill cash surplus
2018 $1.3 bill cash surplus
2019 $0.7 bill residual cash deficit

Source: https://treasury.govt.nz/system/files/2019-10/fsgnz-2019.pdf
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October 9, 2019 11:05am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  linky no worky
  
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  October 9, 2019 2:26pm
  - Cobolt24
    
    Huh! It got removed. I found another site that has it though: https://www.interest.co.nz/sites/default/files/embedded_images/fsgnz-2019.pdf
    
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    October 9, 2019 7:39pm
RW Capitalist

https://www.national.org.nz/govt_misleading_on_crl_working_with_businesses
No wonder we have a surplus
In Labour’s addition
ONE means many…
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October 9, 2019 11:06am
MCos

Tweet of the morning

‘Democrats got so carried away in the rush to impeach Trump that they failed to consider maybe he doesn’t feel like it’
Chris Scott
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October 9, 2019 11:20am
Maggie Pie

GREAT NEWS for Briscoe’s owner Rod Duke!
Looks like the council has withdrawn its objection allowing him to build his helicopter pad on Herne Bay beach. No doubt a few of Roddy’s neighbors will be a bit pissed, but they sound like interfering pains-in-the-arse anyway.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12274827

As my partner sez “Good on ya Rod – and thanks for choosing Marine Parade rather than Vicky Ave to build the new abode.” 🙂
8 1
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October 9, 2019 11:37am
- chaos
  
  I want a helipad out the back, but alas, haven’t got a helicopter to land there. Hmmm
  
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  October 9, 2019 2:42pm
Happychappy

When are the media going to call out Jacinda Ardern on blatant lies that were told on Mike Hosking show yesterday when replying to the questions on being soft on drugs. One of the PM’s answers were why do you think we have put 1800 more Police on the streets stop crime, well that is untrue and distorting the fact this policy was a Election promise and the fact is they haven’t got anywhere near a thousand more Police and will not achieve the one thousand mark in the three years they promised, with the total number unlikely to reach half of the 1800, this is a out out lie and the media should be calling it as if had been National this would have been front page news.
20 2
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October 9, 2019 11:53am
- Paulus
  
  Are there not more leaving the Police than joining ?
  
  5 0
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  October 9, 2019 2:07pm
  - Happychappy
    
    Yes but they haven’t been able to train the amount they promised which was 1800 recruits.
    
    3 0
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    October 9, 2019 3:31pm
Swifty

‘Piketty’s thesis; that inequality will only worsen if we don’t directly address it with greater taxation of wealth (remind me again why that is even debated?) …’

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/film-reviews/116431446/capital-in-the-21st-century-kiwicreated-thomas-piketty-doco-a-thing-well-made

Careful what you wish for Mr Tuckett.
4 0
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October 9, 2019 12:04pm
Bobba Fret

Now that this far larger than expected surplus has been announced by our wonderful coalition govt., is anyone able to tell me when I can expect those tax reductions which Labour cancelled?

waiting……
waiting……
13 1
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October 9, 2019 12:14pm
Fletch

Piers Morgan imitates Greta (“how dare you”) to SJW outrage… lol

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10089734/piers-morgan-greta-thunberg-gmb/

He is right though. People are sick to death of this climate bullshit.
17 2
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October 9, 2019 12:23pm
- stephieboy
  
  “People are sick to death of this climate bullshit..”
  
  Which ones?
  
  0 26
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  October 9, 2019 1:10pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Me and my partner for a start, Silly!!
    
    16 0
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    October 9, 2019 2:01pm
    - chaos
      
      Most of the people with brains that know the facts and understand this global warming gig is a scam that is up now.
      
      11 0
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      October 9, 2019 2:42pm
    - stephieboy
      
      Maggie Pie, a minority of two within a minority!
      
      0 18
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      October 9, 2019 3:00pm
Fletch

The letter from the White House to Pelosi and her cohort refusing to cooperate with their bogus “impeachment inquiry”.

Dear Madam Speaker and Messrs. Chairmen:

I write on behalf of President Donald J. Trump in response to your numerous, legally unsupported demands made as part of what you have labeled contrary to the Constitution of the United States and all past bipartisan precedent—as an “impeachment inquiry.” As you know, you have designed and implemented your inquiry in a manner that violates fundamental fairness and constitutionally mandated due process.

For example, you have denied the President the right to cross-examine witnesses, to call witnesses, to receive transcripts of testimony, to have access to evidence, to have counsel present, and many other basic rights guaranteed to all Americans. You have conducted your proceedings in secret. You have violated civil liberties and the separation of powers by threatening Executive Branch officials, claiming that you will seek to punish those who exercise fundamental constitutional rights and prerogatives. All of this violates the Constitution, the rule of law, and every past precedent. Never before in our history has the House of Representatives—under the control of either political party—taken the American people down the dangerous path you seem determined to pursue.

Put simply, you seek to overturn the results of the 2016 election and deprive the American people of the President they have freely chosen. Many Democrats now apparently view impeachment not only as a means to undo the democratic results of the last election, but as a strategy to influence the next election, which is barely more than a year away. As one member of Congress explained, he is “concerned that if we don’t impeach the President, he will get reelected.” Your highly partisan and unconstitutional effort threatens grave and lasting damage to our democratic institutions, to our system of free elections, and to the American people.

For his part, President Trump took the unprecedented step of providing the public transparency by declassifying and releasing the record of his call with President Zelenskyy of Ukraine. The record clearly established that the call was completely appropriate and that there is no basis for your inquiry. The fact that there was nothing wrong with the call was also powerfully confirmed by Chairman Schiffs decision to create a false version of the call and read it to the American people at a congressional hearing, without disclosing that he was simply making it all up.

In addition, information has recently come to light that the whistleblower had contact with Chairman Schiffs office before filing the complaint. I lis initial denial of such contact caused The Washington Post to conclude that Chairman Schiff “clearly made a statement that was false.”2 In any event, the American people understand that Chairman Schiff cannot covertly assist with the submission of a complaint, mislead the public about his involvement, read a counterfeit version of the call to the American people, and then pretend to sit in judgment as a neutral “investigator.”

For these reasons, President Trump and his Administration reject your baseless, unconstitutional efforts to overturn the democratic process. Your unprecedented actions have left the President with no choice. In order to fulfill his duties to the American people, the Constitution, the Executive Branch, and all future occupants of the Office of the Presidency, President Trump and his Administration cannot participate in your partisan and unconstitutional inquiry under these circumstances.

MORE – https://www.scribd.com/document/429358360/White-House-letter-to-Nancy-Pelosi#fullscreen&from_embed
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October 9, 2019 12:44pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Well done Mr President. That’s as damning a response as I have seen for some time.
  
  21 2
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  October 9, 2019 12:56pm
  - Batman
    
    It’s also completely without basis given the Constitution grants “sole power of impeachment” to the Congress.
    
    There is no vote requirement or anything else.
    
    No amount of quibbling and throwing a tanty will change that, Tony ?
    
    This is a letter written after he was told “we’re not going to cooperate at all, find us some justification for that”
    
    2 9
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    October 9, 2019 2:39pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The Trumpistas’ line now is that a sitting president cannot be indicted for a crime, and he can’t be impeached either.
      
      1 8
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      October 9, 2019 4:09pm
      - Batman
        
        Their entire defence is basically “this is unfair”
        
        But some are simply too invested at this stage.
        
        It doesn’t help that I have a feeling that some here are of retirement age and spend a bit of time watching, and believing, what Hannity and Ingram tell them on the afternoon TV
        
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        October 9, 2019 4:45pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        No, basically, hold a vote of the house for impeachment (as was done in the only two other cases of this type – so precedence) and then you will have an ongoing impeachment. I’d have no doubt that the WH would meet it’s legal requirements if that happened. After all, they did cooperate extensively for 30 months or so with the Mueller inquiry.
        
        What Pelosi is doing is attempting have an impeachment without all the bits she objects to, like giving the defense access to evidence.
        
        And you have to admit that Trump has a point, there’s no absolute requirement for a vote, but there is precedent for one. And the other impeachments were run by the Judicial committee, not the Intelligence one. Take it to court, have to be SCOTUS, and get a ruling.
        
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        October 9, 2019 6:05pm
- stephieboy
  
  Fletch, sorry that is a highly charged partisan response a summary of which is covered here ,
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/oct/08/trump-news-today-live-impeachment-syria-turkey-polls-latest-updates
  
  BTW, a majority of Americans according to this poll support an impeachment inquiry,
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/08/trump-impeachment-inquiry-poll-americans
  
  1 26
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  October 9, 2019 1:21pm
  - Fletch
    
    Stephie, there is nothing to the impeachment. The Ukrainian president said he didn’t feel pressured and did not know anything about withholding any aid. And Trump says he didn’t imply anything. So, the two principals in the call say there is nothing to it, but the Dems infer something else because they have an axe to grind.
    
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    October 9, 2019 1:42pm
    - chaos
      
      The problem is some of these people do not understand what impeachment is. They just throw around the word thinking it will let them get rid of trump and get Hillary in.
      
      8 1
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      October 9, 2019 2:40pm
      - Batman
        
        Impeachment equals President Pence.
        
        Assuming of course that GOP senators don’t remain shivers looking to a spine to run up, to quote another politician ?
        
        2 5
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        October 9, 2019 4:34pm
    - Batman
      
      No need for Zelensky to feel pressure for it to be an abuse of power.
      
      Trump only had to ask. And he has since admitted it on national TV and also done it again by asking China to investigate an opponent.
      
      2 4
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      October 9, 2019 2:40pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        But why then did Zelensky state publicly that he felt no pressure ? Why did the US Ambassador not even tell the Ukrainians about the suspension of the aid package until well after the call ? Hard to “extort” if the “victim” isn’t aware of any pressure.
        
        Trump’s admitted nothing like what you claim on TV, he’s said they want to investigate the 2016 election crimes, and that’s what he asked Ukraine to do. There was no favour requested over Biden, only over Crowdstrike. You’re reading what your biases want you to see, not what happened.
        
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        October 9, 2019 6:09pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Flippin’ heck stephie – you grizzle about a “highly charged partisan response”, and then you furnish links to stories in The Guardian, which is as partisan as it gets!
    
    17 2
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    October 9, 2019 1:53pm
    - stephieboy
      
      Tony Stuart, then tell me what is non partisan media in your estimation?
      
      1 15
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      October 9, 2019 2:41pm
      - Swifty
        
        How many Sunni in Iraq? Shia?
        
        5 1
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        October 9, 2019 3:05pm
      - chaos
        
        None, they all immigrated to Stephie’s street, bet they wished they stayed in iraq where they could deal with the creeps more permanently
        
        7 1
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        October 9, 2019 3:43pm
  - mandk
    
    … and he cites the Guardian to rebut what he sees as a highly charged partisan response.
    
    Snort, guffaw, snigger.
    
    4 0
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    October 9, 2019 2:11pm
- Rich Prick
  
  That’s an eight page GFY letter to Nancy. And quite rightly so. No vote, no subpoena powers, all based on hearsay evidence which can’t be cross-examined because no one knows who the witness is. The Salem witch trials had better procedure.
  
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  October 9, 2019 2:20pm
  - MCos
    
    There’s several parts to the process, as you know, but the most important important one is the trial before the Senate with witnesses for both sides and all the rest.
    Prior to that the House of Representatives must vote by a simple majority to empeach. How they get there isn’t stipulated in the constitution except that an inquiry is held.
    
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    October 9, 2019 2:40pm
  - Batman
    
    Lol RP that’s not how Congress works.
    
    Committees have subpoena power delegated to them. They can use it as they see fit.
    
    I’m surprised how many people here fundamentally don’t understand government these days! Hah
    
    2 4
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    October 9, 2019 2:42pm
    - Rich Prick
      
      Of course standing committees have those powers but they aren’t being used presumably because their exercise is judicially reviewable. But until there is an impeachment inquiry resolution the House minority has no powers in respect of the inquiry. Of course the Dems don’t want that because the GOP will have all sorts of damaging fun with old Joe and Hunter.
      
      The WH letter is a beautiful response to partisan theatrics, which is all that exists at the moment.
      
      3 1
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      October 9, 2019 3:20pm
      - Batman
        
        RP – they have issued subpoenas to a number of people and figures, including administration officials.
        
        Your point about the House GOP minority (which is who I think you’re referring to) isn’t correct. Those members have just as much power as other committee members, though obviously they face the main issue of being wiped out in the midterms so are heavily out-numbered in the House and in committees.
        
        The GOP fun will come when they hold a senate trial and can run it however they like. I’m sure Moscow Mitch is already planning that. Though he will have to manage the fact that the Chief Justice will preside over the trial.
        
        Two whistleblowers and first hand transcript evidence doesn’t sound like theatrics, but that’s politics eh?
        
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        October 9, 2019 4:26pm
RW Capitalist

Govt taxing us via the rates.
Govt. plans to tax councils for landfill use.
Council will pass it on to rate payers (probably AFTER “clipping the ticket”)
So rates will rise…the govt. will blame the councils and councils will blame the govt. and we all get screwed.
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October 9, 2019 2:11pm
Fletch

Now news coming out that the ‘whistleblower’ had professional ties to one of the Democratic Party 2020 candidates….

Now, however, there is word of more evidence of possible bias on the whistleblower’s part. Under questioning from Republicans during last Friday’s impeachment inquiry interview with Atkinson, the inspector general revealed that the whistleblower’s possible bias was not that he was simply a registered Democrat. It was that he had a significant tie to one of the Democratic presidential candidates currently vying to challenge President Trump in next year’s election.

“The IG said [the whistleblower] worked or had some type of professional relationship with one of the Democratic candidates,” said one person with knowledge of what was said.

“The IG said the whistleblower had a professional relationship with one of the 2020 candidates,” said another person with knowledge of what was said.

“What [Atkinson] said was that the whistleblower self-disclosed that he was a registered Democrat and that he had a prior working relationship with a current 2020 Democratic presidential candidate,” said a third person with knowledge of what was said.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/whistleblower-had-professional-tie-to-2020-democratic-candidate

So, we now know that the whistleblower was a Democrat, worked for the CIA and had ties to one of the Dem candidates opposing Trump in the next election….

‘Nuff said, really… Another member of the intelligence community “deep state” looking to undermine the current president.
9 3
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October 9, 2019 2:17pm
- chaos
  
  https://twitter.com/Jim_Jordan/status/1180114867052843009
  
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  October 9, 2019 2:35pm
  - Batman
    
    Being a registered Republican removes any credibility Jim Jordan has to comment on this matter. For reference, see above from Fletch ?
    
    2 6
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    October 9, 2019 4:29pm
- stephieboy
  
  Fletch, now what exactly does Gordan Soundland have to hide??
  
  Democrats to Subpoena Key Ukraine Witness Gordon Sondland in Impeachment Inquiry
  
  “Democrats are planning to subpoena Gordon Sondland, the United States ambassador to the European Union, after President Trump said he would not testify Tuesday morning because it’s a “kangaroo court.” “Ambassador Sondland’s testimony and documents are vital, and that is precisely why the Administration is now blocking his testimony and withholding his documents,” Chairmen Adam Schiff, Eliot Engel, and Eljiah Cummings said in a joint statement. Sondland, a key witness to Trump’s reported campaign to put pressure on Ukraine, was scheduled to appear before House Democrats Tuesday morning, but just hours before his appearance, he was ordered by the State Department to avoid the hearing….”
  
  https://www.thedailybeast.com/gordon-sondland-ordered-not-to-speak-in-impeachment-inquiry
  
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  October 9, 2019 2:56pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Review into the Sroubek debacle has been released

https://www.mbie.govt.nz/dmsdocument/7011-independent-review-of-immigration-new-zealands-residence-deportation-liability-process

short summary:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/400598/sroubek-review-ministers-should-be-above-the-fray
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October 9, 2019 2:33pm
- chaos
  
  I heard it on the radio and thought basically the review is that the minister should do his job. Galloway had all the relevant information he needed to deny but he decided not to
  
  18 0
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  October 9, 2019 2:37pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    He was instructed not to.
    
    19 0
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    October 9, 2019 3:23pm
    - Rich Prick
      
      By Richie Hardcore’s go-between?
      
      14 0
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      October 9, 2019 3:32pm
    - Bobba Fret
      
      That’s what I reckon too. A blind man on a fast horse could have made the correct decision first time.
      
      12 0
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      October 9, 2019 4:14pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    And we are none the wiser as to why Lees-Galloway decided to grant Sroubek residency.
    
    Who asked/told him to ignore INZ’s recommendations?
    
    18 0
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    October 9, 2019 3:32pm
- Piniwi
  
  Shame MW that it was just an expensive $155,000 whitewash job that could have been saved if the Minister had actually read the details provided by IMNZ. Short answer is it was just all above his head while the decision coming from a higher power made it easier to just skim the summary.
  
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  October 9, 2019 3:14pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  Can we now expect ILG’s resignation?
  
  10 0
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  October 9, 2019 3:19pm
  - Bobba Fret
    
    I’ll answer my own question…….No!
    As per the Captain’s comment above, he made the decision he was told to and you can’t really be sacked for doing what you’re told.
    
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    October 9, 2019 4:16pm
RW Capitalist

Wife just looked up IRD phone No. on query about changing tax code.
Web site said: We are not taking any more phone calls today, due to overloading.
Bet they soon fine her if she gets it wrong.
Public servant, is, as I thought, a misnomer.
Don’t remember this, under National.
7 3
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October 9, 2019 2:40pm
- cmm
  
  It certainly has changed a lot and has become much harder to work with them.
  
  I requested a callback. No callback came.
  
  But I was 12 hours late submitting GST and got a very shirty letter…
  
  10 0
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  October 9, 2019 4:55pm
  - kowtow
    
    They won’t accept cheques from next year either.
    
    Tossers.
    
    5 0
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    October 9, 2019 5:31pm
    - cmm
      
      Cash?
      
      I’ll courier them provisional tax in 10c coins.
      
      3 0
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      October 9, 2019 8:23pm
gump

Interesting recent article on the effective tax rates in the USA:

For the first time ever US billionaires pay lower tax rate than workers.
2 6
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October 9, 2019 4:42pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  So??
  Billionaires still pay nearly ALL the tax collected, even in America.
  
  3 1
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  October 9, 2019 5:46pm
Hugh Pavletich

Posted at … https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/10/more-evidence-new-zealands-skills-based-visa-system-is-failing/#comment-3515301

… NEW ZEALAND …

International independent research firm Capital Economics says the risks are ‘skewed’ to the RBNZ making more cuts, possibly into negative interest rates – ‘if the Government doesn’t step up it’s game soon … David Hargreaves … Interest Co NZ

https://www.interest.co.nz/business/102051/international-independent-research-firm-capital-economics-says-risks-are-skewed-rbnz

Economic growth slumping to just 1.5% by next year, unemployment surging and the Reserve Bank being forced to cut interest rates further are all on the menu ahead, according to international independent research company Capital Economics.

In an ‘update’ on New Zealand, Capital’s Australia and New Zealand economist Ben Udy sees the RBNZ cutting the OCR to 0.5% (it’s currently 1%) before the middle of next year, but he says the New Zealand Government needs to provide stimulus.

“…If the government doesn’t step up its game soon, the risks are clearly skewed towards the [Reserve] Bank cutting [the OCR] more, perhaps even into negative territory,” he said.

Udy points out that the global economy has “not yet reached its trough”. … read more via hyperlink above …
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October 9, 2019 5:03pm
- kowtow
  
  How’s that bank run in Honkers goin’?
  
  3 0
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  October 9, 2019 5:30pm
Fletch

Hundreds, (actually, the news report makes mention of an online group of 5,000) of young trans people now want to de-transition back to their birth sex but have little to no support. Often, many are autistic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FRUDwDmkm0
5 2
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October 9, 2019 5:04pm
Swifty

Some people just shouldn’t be on the road:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZyOt5wgIvI

🙂
3 0
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October 9, 2019 5:09pm
Monique Watson

What a load of bullshit from Ardern and a whitewash Over KarelSroubek
Least transparent government ever.
12 0
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October 9, 2019 5:14pm
- chaos
  
  Yeah, standing up for him not doing his job because other people spent little time doing it too, so why should Galloway be blamed for not doing his job. I do not believe he even spent an hour looking at the file, ten minutes would of shown he should not be given anything but the boot out of this country.
  
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  October 9, 2019 5:32pm
  - sooty
    
    ILG was told what to do!
    By people above him, who’s above him?
    Cindy, was covering up the lines!
    Where as Twyford is just plain tits!
    
    11 0
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    October 9, 2019 6:09pm
  - Monique Watson
    
    But if Cindy says everything is okay and Galloway the fool was trying his hardest? That makes him bungling his job okay. Right?
    You gotta just read between the lines.
    
    10 0
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    October 9, 2019 6:32pm
chaos

A great story, if you can help this boy and the police find the truck driver pass it on.

* Ryan, who was in the front seat, noticed his nana slipping into a semi-conscious state,” said police.

The 10-year-old immediately jumped into action, stepping over the vehicle’s centre console to press on the brake.

Although the car slowed, Ryan was unable to move his nana’s foot from the accelerator. He started waving to passing motorists in a desperate bid for help as the car drifted closer to the crash barrier and the Waikato River.

“Thinking they were going to crash, Ryan managed to get the car to slow to a walking pace and jumped clear of the vehicle,” said police.

At this point, a truck driver noticed Ryan waving for help and pulled over.

“He ran to the vehicle, still moving at a walking pace, and managed to bring it to a standstill.”*

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/10/hero-truck-driver-and-10yo-boy-help-stop-car-crash-on-state-highway-1.html
6 1
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October 9, 2019 5:16pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  I wonder if this was the very first “medical emergency” for the elderly driver (who appears not to be in the best physical shape)?
  If she had a history of passing out, why was she driving?
  
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  October 9, 2019 5:41pm
- chaos
  
  Great to see the truck drivers have come forward
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12275053
  
  Sad to see some low life wants to down tick a positive story
  
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  October 9, 2019 7:15pm
Morrissey

Takes an Irish player to say what NZ players and critics dare not admit in public.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/rwc-2019-japan/116424903/cynical-cheats–irish-stars-extraordinary-attack-on-all-blacks-at-rugby-world-cup

Another Irishman called out their cheating—abetted by an inexplicably terrible non-performance by the “referee”—in the farcical 2011 RWC final…..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XBqetaCfgo&t=124s
2 3
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October 9, 2019 8:46pm

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