General Debate 03 May 2020

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krazykiwi

I have been reading “Cultural Amnesia” by the brilliant, and sadly now departed Sir Clive James. It’s a collection of 100 essays on writers, thinkers, and orators of the 20th century. It’s a solid read, with James’ writing style being at once both beautiful and complex. It takes some effort. And some coffee, as I have discovered.

If you have a copy of this tome lying around I recommend flicking to page 87 and reading the easy about Albert Camus (1913-1960). Camus was a French writer, and had a something of a dislike of tyrants as suggested by this quote:

Tyrants conduct monologues above a million solitudes. — Albert Camus, The Rebel

James’ essay goes on to lightly critique the communication styles of various 20th century tyrants, and in particular their tendency to endlessly monologue to the extent that even the most committed sycophants gave up the will to live. In Stalin’s case he helped out, reportedly threatening to shoot the first of the audience who dared stop applauding after any of his monologues had mercifully run their course. As James noted, it was either bleeding hands, or a bullet in the neck.

As the risk of Godwining myself so early, here’s a delightful section about Hitler‘s private speeches.

Secretaries who worshipped in him fell asleep trying to write it all down, while amputee officers reporting to him from the eastern front longed to get back to the comparatively spontaneous entertainment provided by the Red Army’s massed artillery.

Hitler had the con man’s insight into other people’s reactions and must have been well aware of what he was doing. He was proving himself. Or rather he was proving his position: proving his power. Tyrants always do, and Camus spotted it.

While the style of tyrant’s oratory may or may not be useful knowledge when you watch the 1pm Ash and Cindy show, in 1947 Camus wrote something that is relevant for Covid-19 afflicted 2020. His novel “The Plague” contains the line “The only means to fight the plague is honesty”.

We could do with a bit less monologuing and a bit more honesty in my view.
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May 3, 2020 8:00am
- RockyJ
  
  I also read this book and found it fascinating. I was particularly struck by Clive’s own observation that most people in western society have forgotten what the antecedents of our culture were and cannot articulate what western democracy stands for. Very dangerous.
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:19am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Many people don’t understand what went into the great Western society we all benefit from, especially those who loath it to their bitter cores. They laughably expect that they can undermine the foundations and yet still enjoy the same sound structure that it supports.
    
    Non-Europeans (biologically or ideologically) cannot perpetuate Western civilisation. The evidence for this is all of the underdeveloped countries that are not founded on it.
    
    Give a European bricks, and he will give you a city; give a non-European a city, and he will give you bricks.
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:03am
    - Level 3.9 Prisoner in Cindy's Kindy
      
      The Second World War turned certain western cities into bricks.
      
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      May 3, 2020 9:46am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Exception proves the rule?
        
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        May 3, 2020 10:24am
      - kowtow
        
        Nah , mostly the cities belonging to the two principal belligerents(who were anything but European ideologically) , the Communists and the national socialists , and unfortunately anyone caught up between them ( Warsaw etc)
        
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        May 3, 2020 10:30am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Level 3.9 Prisoner in Cindy’s Kindy
        Granted, but I didn’t say we are perfect. All humans have a dark and violent aspect to their psyche. The thrust was though, we tend to build and some less able societies cannot maintain what has been built. The evidence for this is their own societies. Nobody is moving to Africa, but Africans are moving to the West. That says a lot. Look what the blacks have done to South Africa, Zimbabwe etc. QED.
        
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        May 3, 2020 11:13am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Quite a few cities in places outside Germany were pretty thoroughly trashed, Caen for one; plus the Japanese cities. The biggest casualty toll ever was not the Atomic bombs, but the firebombing of Tokyo.
        
        And I suspect you are wrong, there’s been plenty of decent sized cities constructed outside of Europe in pre modern times. Central America had plenty, as did South America. China has had cities since before Paris and London were a collection of hovels on a river bank. Then there were the various African civilisations, Timbuctoo was fairly large and rather wealthy (nearby gold mines) in medieval times, and there are others. Indian cities existed, as did Khmer cities.
        
        I suggest you take a less biased and less racist view.
        
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        May 3, 2020 11:27am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Ed Snack
        Thanks for the suggestion.
        
        “And I suspect you are wrong, there’s been plenty of decent sized cities constructed outside of Europe in pre modern times. Central America had plenty, as did South America. China has had cities since before Paris and London were a collection of hovels on a river bank. Then there were the various African civilisations, Timbuctoo was fairly large and rather wealthy (nearby gold mines) in medieval times, and there are others. Indian cities existed, as did Khmer cities.”
        
        Where are they now, though? Destroyed by the current inhabitants, which supports my thesis.
        
        There is substantive evidence (e.g. statuary and other artifacts) that ancient (i.e pre-Aztec and Mayan, who always explicitly considered that they had inherited, from “the Gods” pre-existing infrastructure, which they then destroyed, again supporting my point) South American cities were built by Viracocha or Quetzalcoatl, in Central and Southern America. They were incongruently bearded figures with undeniably causasian facial features; probably actually a group of ‘foreigners,’ rather than single individuals, whom the local legends credit with bringing society to the area in a time of darkness, from the seas.
        
        I don’t doubt China had an established civilisation predating some European settlements. So what?I’m talking, ultimately, the quality, the longevity and achievements of societies, not when they were inaugurated. China was a backward nation of peasants until they “Westernised” in the 20th century.
        
        There is no indisputable evidence that the oldest Indian cities (e.g. Indus Valley sites such as Mehrgarh and Mohengodaro, in what is now Pakistan) were constructed by what we may call modern Indians. Again, some of the statuary indicates caucasian influence, as do some descriptions of the group who composed the Vedic texts. Look at India now: dirt poor, until they Westernised.
        
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        May 3, 2020 11:59am
      - Ed Snack
        
        TPG, actually the Central American cities had two main fates, many were abandoned due to widespread climate change dried out their farming lands, and the remaining omens were primarily destroyed by European invaders. The sites are still used in many cases, Mexico City is a very large urban centre, and most South American major cities are at the site of former Incan (other other local empires) cities. Spanish rule then oppressed any local inhabitants attempts at establishing their own cities.
        
        You seem to be irredeemably ignorant about China though, it industrialised later than Europe and in the 19th century was locally impoverished compared to Europe. However from the rise of the first Imperial dynasties China was almost certainly more civilised than anywhere in Europe except maybe the height of Graeco-Roman rule until the middle of the 19th century. Europeans used their temporary military superiority in the late 19th century to intervene and destabilise China, yet were unable to do much more than occupy very small enclaves as trading centres.
        
        You also seem to partial to the rather unsupported theories about the Americas being “invaded” by pre-Christian Europeans, a la Thor Heyerdahl and his papyrus boat. Same with the Indians, there’s no doubt that there’s genetic mixing across the Indian sub continent, after all Sanskrit is part of the “Caucasian” language family.
        
        To attribute such traits to genetics is racist, culture explains it far better.
        
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        May 3, 2020 1:03pm
      - Kiwi Dave
        
        Given Europe’s long history of anti-semitism, totalitarian millenarian movements, utopian thought, and attempts by individual European countries to conquer their close neighbours and far off lands, Kowtow’s claim that the two principal belligerents were anything but European ideologically is a bit selective – no true Scotsman and all that.
        
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        May 3, 2020 1:07pm
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      “Non-Europeans (biologically or ideologically) cannot perpetuate Western civilisation. ”
      
      Pardon?
      
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      May 3, 2020 10:15am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Respectfully, Japanese civilisation is not Western civilisation: it is Eastern civilisation. It is not fundamentally based on Christian tenets, unlike the West. Christianity comes from the West, and Western civilisation was built on it. Plato’s philosophy was proto-Christian (immortality of the soul, doctrine of the Forms etc.), so we can call the Greeks, in some sense, Christian-like.
        
        Asia was largely isolated from Western influence until about the 19th century, so I can’t see how it could be foundationally Western. If Asia is Western in any sense, it is because it has adopted some elements of Western society, a possibility I covered in my proposition. Much of Asia has become Westernised, but Asia is fundamentally Asian. I’m just being descriptive.
        
        Perhaps I should have said “black” instead of “non-European”, to include those who were late to the party?
        
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        May 3, 2020 11:07am
      - Jack5
        
        I challenge “The Proper Ghandi” views in his 11.07 post.
        
        The Greeks, who founded Western civilisation, by DNA, are more Middle Eastern than Western European (see link below).
        
        They and the Middle East’s Jews, the founders of Christianity as well as Judaism, provided another great pillar to “Western” civilisation.
        
        The European languages all, except Basque, Hungarian and Finnish, descend from Indo-European, which stems from the Russian steppes and other parts of Central Asia.
        
        In mathematics, science, medicine there have been influences on Western knowledge from Asia, the Middle East and other regions. Most famously printing, the compass, and gun powder.
        
        The Proper Ghandi’s view that the West is fundamentally based on Christian tenets is tenuous. Greek civilisation, and much of Roman civilisation, preceded Christianity, which itself was and is an offshoot of Judaism.
        
        The borders of civilisations aren’t tight. Consider Western enthusiasm for Japanese martial arts, sushi, origami, cars, pop culture, and for its manufacturing techniques such as kaizen, and “just-in-time”. Western culture has been influenced by Japan.
        
        For anyone interested in the genetics of Greeks:
        
        https://youtu.be/Q8YJqYpNQT8
        
        For anyone interested in Japanese influence in the West:
        
        https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-japan-became-a-pop-culture-superpower
        
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        May 3, 2020 12:01pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Jack 5
        Thank you for attempting a rebuttal. I disagree, but I respect you for that.
        
        Even if your genetic source is sound, I did not (fundamentally) base my case on genetics, more so an ideological ethical doctrine that is based on Christian principles – however I do think there are objective genetic differences between races.
        
        If there are obvious, objective differences in physical attributes, then why would the brain not also vary? It too is a physical object. Average IQ differences could explain, for instance, why blacks commit about 50% of murders in the US (usually black-on-black), yet are well under 20% of the population. Low IQ people tend to lack impulse control and have less consideration for the future and the consequences of their actions.
        
        US blacks underachieve in most areas, compared to Europeans whom they share an environment with. More broadly, the (average) genetic disparities, and hence IQ, between races accounts for Africa vs the West.
        
        Judaism and Christianity are not, in there post-Christian development, very comparable in my estimation, although I concede some commonality. Jesus is not revered by the Jews, so Judaism is fundamentally disparate from Christianity, and they have developed in different directions.
        
        I said, as you agree, that the Greeks and Romans led directly to the crystallised doctrine we call “Christianity.” The roots are in Plato, and arguably the Pre-Socratics, so the Greeks and (definitely later) Romans are compatible with Christianity. Look at the Holy Roman Empire.
        
        The influence of the other cultures you cite are legitimate, I agree. However, they are small in number, somewhat incidental (i.e not foundational to the moral core of Christianity that, I argue, underpins and resulted in the many material advances), latter-day additions or accoutrements to a pre-existing and well established Christian-based society.
        
        Cheers.
        
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        May 3, 2020 12:45pm
      - Jack5
        
        Some problems for the argument of “The Proper Ghandi”.
        
        If IQ is race based, then East Asians rank higher than Europeans.
        
        If the Ancient Greeks influenced Christianity, they would have done so via Judaism and the pre-Christian Romans. Jesus was a Jew, and spoke the non-European tongue of Aramaic, but the milieu in Palestine must have been heavily influenced by the Romans, and perhaps intellectually, and via the Romans, the Ancient Greeks.
        
        If later-century Catholic clerics influenced Christianity by studying the works of the Ancient Greeks, were they creating, software classification style, Christianity 2?
        
        To me, Christianising the Ancient Greeks is akin to Mormons converting their ancestors or Maori claiming property rights to the wireless spectrum.
        
        Countries ranked by IQ:
        
        https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/average-iq-by-country/
        
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        May 3, 2020 1:41pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      You seem to imagine that only Europeans are capable of civilisation.
      
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      May 3, 2020 10:24am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        World history is 90% European history. Where are all the great African societies? Or indigenous South American societies? I don’t discount some Asian societies, but they have only become great(er) by adopting Western ideas. I don’t care if you are offended by facts.
        
        Immigration today is a one-way street: why do you think that is?
        
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        May 3, 2020 11:19am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Yeah, it’s a bit too early in the morning for White Supremacy bullshit TPG. That shit can fuck right off you racist arsehole.
      
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      May 3, 2020 10:29am
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        Is that your counter argument Simon? If so, it is not compelling. Arguing against racism is easy, yet you seem to not have an argument that rebuts TPG?
        Abusing someone is not a rebuttal.
        
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        May 3, 2020 11:10am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Simon Gotlieb
        Good counter-argument.
        
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        May 3, 2020 11:21am
      - Ed Snack
        
        But Simon is correct, it is racist crap. Until, say, the late 18th century Europeans lagged behind the Chinese, and quite famously appropriated many Chinese inventions and put them to better or at least more widespread use. Like Gunpowder and the Printing Press.
        
        Much of Africa suffers right now from an excess of European derived ideas – primarily Socialism, and mixed with their existing cultures this does have a most unfortunate impact on their ability to bootstrap themselves upwards. But it is grossly offensive to attribute this to genetics or “race”. Culture, sure, but race, nope.
        
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        May 3, 2020 11:34am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        There is no point in arguing with white supremacists and racists. Where this a discussion in the local pub, the fellow would be on his butt on the floor nursing a sore jaw. I treated their comments with the respect they deserved – none.
        
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        May 3, 2020 11:39am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Simon
        “There is no point in arguing with white supremacists and racists. Where this a discussion in the local pub, the fellow would be on his butt on the floor nursing a sore jaw. I treated their comments with the respect they deserved – none”
        
        I know I’ve made a great point when I am called a racist. It’s a substitute for thinking. You may hate yourself for (based upon your name) being white. You may even have a point. However, if you’re going to call someone a “racist arsehole” then I think you should back it up, and lay out why I am wrong. I’d be delighted with even a poor attempt. Emotion is easy; thinking is hard.
        
        Me championing the accomplishments of the people who begot me and allowed me to live in a prosperous society does not mean I hate any other group. Far from it. It’s not a binary option. It just means that I recognise and am proud of my ancestors. Get over it.
        
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        May 3, 2020 12:08pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Just usual brain-dead abusive response. Some cultures have attributes that make them more successful than others. Intolerance of corruption, strong work ethics, egalitarianism and support of individuality + better governance (democracy!) Leads to better outcomes, maximizing human potential. People from other cultures do far better when they move to west and are subject to these improved conditions.
        
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        May 3, 2020 1:27pm
    - Fletch
      
      The young people who would vote for a Socialist do not even have a clue what that means. They are too self absorbed in their phones and tweets to even know about anything happening in Venezuela.
      
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      May 3, 2020 10:50am
      - Nickc2
        
        Agree Fletch. They blindly agree with their school teachers and/or university lecturers. A sad state of affairs really because you will eventually end up with one of them as your PM.
        
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        May 3, 2020 12:20pm
      - Gravelroad
        
        As there is no “reply” facility to several of the comments above, I will do it here.
        Simon Gotlieb @ 11.39am: so is it acceptable to resort to violence by assaulting someone in a pub (or anywhere) if you disagree with their opinions?
        Not very civilised, surely?
        
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        May 3, 2020 12:33pm
  - kowtow
    
    Antecedents.
    
    https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/15217232/albert-arthur-james
    
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    May 3, 2020 11:03am
- stewmar
  
  “We could do with a bit less monologuing and a bit more honesty in my view.“
  
  Cindy told us that she has the most honest and transparent government ever……….are you suggesting that she lied to us???
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:37am
  - Nickc2
    
    Was her mouth moving at the time?
    
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    May 3, 2020 12:21pm
- Simon
  
  Hitler was on drugs thats what kept him going he would work until 5am. Stalin was an insane workaholic 20 hours per day then he would collapse exhausted for a day and then start again.
  
  Hitler & Stalin weren’t fraudsters they both believed with all their might in their brand of socialism. Just check out NZ left twitter. The same bat shit craziness belief in socialism.
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:39am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Not Stalin. He was a common criminal. Used to be a bank robber. Then became a state robber. Talk about success, Trev!
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:27am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Hitler seemed to have kept skewed hours, he did work very late, but also rose very late. Recall that the immediate response to D-Day was delayed because Hitler gave strict instructions that he must be notified before the armoured counter attack divisions could move up, and it was after 1 pm before he was awake to give that order.
    
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    May 3, 2020 11:37am
  - kloyd0306
    
    ….and when they cannot get their own way, violence is the first option.
    
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    May 3, 2020 1:50pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Camus, famously, was a goalkeeper.
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:27am
- Martin Williams
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Jacinda Ardern is about as far from Adolf Hitler as it is possible to get.
  
  Yet you went there.
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:50am
  - rouppe
    
    Her government is now beginning to make noises of a nationalistic nature.
    
    Buy local.
    Ramp up domestic production, even when it’s uneconomic.
    Take stakes in businesses (centralised control, akin to nationalisation)
    Mass surveillance.
    Neighbour-narking.
    
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    May 3, 2020 10:00am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Idiotic post, buying local is supporting local businesses. What production is being ramped up which is uneconomical? What stakes are being taken in business? Mass surveillance what a dreamer and you throw in the new ‘cool’ word ‘narking.’ Hip gangsta are ya?
      
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      May 3, 2020 10:33am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        and you throw in the new ‘cool’ word ‘narking.’ Hip gangsta are ya?
        
        Clearly you’re not reading “Stuff”..
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120688910/coronavirus-life-in-lockdown-turns-new-zealand-into-a-nation-of-narks
        
        To nark, or not to nark? That is the question.
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300002662/coronavirus-with-so-much-already-sacrificed-lets-not-ruin-it-now
        
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        May 3, 2020 11:05am
      - Durden
        
        Mr Peters has clearly outlined his plans for Air NZ
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121364096/winston-peters-hints-at-big-changes-for-air-nz
        
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        May 3, 2020 11:35am
      - igm
        
        Narking sure as hell is not “Cool”, being the domain of gutless lefties and drongos.
        
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        May 4, 2020 3:34am
    - Nickc2
      
      First she disarmed the peasants with the exception of those her police could count on for assistance (Maori Militia/Gangs (Road Blocks)). Now her government is taking a controlling interest in Industry and small businesses.
      Lets face it, if you owe the government money, they have control over you. They can even throw you in jail for failure to repay your debt. Small business in receipt of government handouts, take note.
      
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      May 3, 2020 12:32pm
  - pdm
    
    Both Hitler and Ardern were/are control freaks.
    
    That is pretty close MW.
    
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    May 3, 2020 10:13am
  - doggone7
    
    You say Jacinda Ardern is about as far from Adolf Hitler as it is possible to get. People disagree with you.
    
    And that not far from Simon talking about ‘bat shit craziness.’
    
    Last week I mentioned Strike Force Raptor will sort out the gangs after National gets in. That got the downticks. Were people embarrassed to be reminded about it, Fawlty Towers ‘don’t talk about the war’ style?
    
    Maybe if they manage to get in Labour can use some of the National notions. The terrible heinous dictator Ardern will have Strike Force Raptor units in every town dealing to dissenters and knocking on doors ensuring everyone’s eating Weetbix for breakfast.
    
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    May 3, 2020 10:41am
  - Phronesis
    
    One led the National Socialists and the other the International Union of Socialist Youth.
    
    Both make policy decisions explicitly based on the race of the recipients.
    
    Those two statements are irrefutable facts.
    
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    May 3, 2020 10:55am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Nah. Wrong. And stupid argument. It’s as bad as suggesting that the National party are 50% of the way towards becoming National Socialists.
      
      This place is becoming over-run by crackpots and conspiracy theorists.
      
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      May 3, 2020 11:42am
      - Martin Williams
        
        Unbelievably it’s a lot better than before the Mosque attacks by an Australian white supremacist.
        
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        May 3, 2020 1:04pm
      - Phronesis
        
        You might very well point out that how one self identifies is not as important as what you actually are. The problem is the Left insist that men who identify as women actually are women. For the Left what you identify as is everything. The only word that appears in both self descriptions is Socialist. So my argument may be weak but it is irrefutable from the Left.
        
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        May 3, 2020 2:41pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Actually at this stage of the game she is further into Hitlers game than he was at the same time marker.
    
    At this stage he was still delivering platitudes, having photos with his dogs in the country, photos with families and small children and appearing “kind” and showing “empathy”.
    
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    May 3, 2020 11:25am
    - doggone7
      
      There you go, the perfect election strategy! Bugger the real pussy stuff like Reds under the Bed.
      
      Ardern is worse than Hitler, the signs are all there! Under the cloak of pre-school visits she hides weapons far worse than those stolen off law-abiding folk. The biggest Wooden Horse of all the snuck through in the day of night.
      
      Jesus wept.
      
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      May 3, 2020 11:40am
      - JackRabbit
        
        doggone7, you are so correct!
        
        A wooden horse is what it is.
        
        Actually she is Reds IN the Bed.
        
        Hitler was a National Socialist. It is only in later years, that the Mash Media have tried to rewrite history by claiming he was a fascist.
        
        Socialism and Fascism are almost identical in terms of outcome – Totalitarian rule, and loss of freedom.
        
        The only real difference is the degree of bullshit that they feed you in order for the public to look forward to it.
        
        “Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.”
        
        “Diplomacy is the art of telling people to go to hell in such a way that they ask for directions.”
        
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        May 3, 2020 12:21pm
mikenmildagain

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Happy World Press Freedom Day!
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May 3, 2020 8:00am
- amospicton
  
  That’s been cancelled….
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:08am
  - G152
    
    Almost on the day that the press was invented
    
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    May 3, 2020 8:55am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Perhaps Milky meant “Happy World Press Gang Day!”, but didn’t want to insult the gangs.
    
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    May 3, 2020 12:23pm
- krazykiwi
  
  There are 50 million reasons why our press isn’t free.
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:09am
  - projectman
    
    It’s not free because, having given up their independence, they made the choice not to be free.
    
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    May 3, 2020 8:54am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Not free, just cheap
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:28am
- Steve James
  
  The Press is so corrupt maybe it’s time to take their freedom away. Certainly punish them for misleading reporting. Mostly twats!
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:20am
  - Stephen Russell
    
    We must silence those who oppose freedom of speech.
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:11am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      And imprison the opponents of liberty.
      
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      May 3, 2020 9:17am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Volunteering for lock up you milky?
        
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        May 3, 2020 12:24pm
  - Clyde
    
    For those that don’t want to rely on MSM, here is a short excerpt of a speech due to be delivered to the Lufthansa Annual General Meeting on the 5th May. This is the commercial reality of CV19.
    
    In less that 65 days we are back where we were 65 years ago,
    
    We carry at the moment 3,000 passengers a day , where we used to carry 300,000 a day,
    
    700 of our 760 aircraft are grounded,
    
    Freight is in high demand We have removed the seats of 4 x A330’s to carry freight and plan to modify more. We call them “Preighters”
    
    Small intra-European restart expected in European Autumn 2020 on limited scale,
    
    New normal not expected before 2023. By then Lufthansa will be a smaller airline with 100 aircraft less and 10,000 less staff.
    
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    May 3, 2020 10:09am
  - artemisia
    
    We the people have voted against the MSM with our feet, bigly.
    
    2 0
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    May 3, 2020 4:27pm
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  So, what you’re saying is, we can reinstate our civil liberties at the press of a button? Perhaps by activating a trap-door beneath Ardern’s well-worn lectern? Count me in.
  
  47 4
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  May 3, 2020 8:28am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Oxymoron
  
  18 5
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  May 3, 2020 8:35am
- Simon
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  “Happy World Press Freedom Day!”
  
  The National party biggest donors are not happy.
  
  4 49
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  May 3, 2020 8:42am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Wtf? Did I doze off somewhere here?
    
    19 1
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    May 3, 2020 9:16am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      He means the Chinese government proxies who fund our political parties.
      
      7 15
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      May 3, 2020 10:25am
  - chaos
    
    Poor Jamie, you can’t even get people stupid enough to sign up for your party. How many times has that fat slob slatter signed up with different names to it
    
    16 2
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    May 3, 2020 10:24am
- Prince
  
  Funded by Labour, Greens and NZ First.
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:22am
JibberJabber

It is obvious Simon Bridges needs a (new) media coach, I would recommend Mike Tyson for the job,

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gc54ix/mike_tyson_almost_kills_a_reporter/

“almost kills” a tad hyperbolic…
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May 3, 2020 8:04am
- stewmar
  
  “almost kills” a tad hyperbolic…“
  
  What!!! Is Mike losing his touch? Couldn’t he finish the job????
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:39am
  - JibberJabber
    
    It was a TKO without throwing a punch.
    
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    May 3, 2020 8:46am
- rouppe
  
  He’s now practising for future interviews
  
  https://twitter.com/i/status/1256300450539700224
  
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  May 3, 2020 10:04am
Andrei

This banner

Trustworthy, accurate and reliable news stories are more important now than ever. Support our newsrooms by making a contribution.

Adorns the top of this inanity Alison Mau: Sacrificing fastfood workers in our coronavirus Hunger Games

Which was the top item when a looked at Stuff’s website this morning

To get money from me they will have to start producing items that rise well above these levels of utter banality
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May 3, 2020 8:05am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Not to mention coming close to what they profess – trustworthy, accurate and reliable.
  
  For the date and tides perhaps – that’s about it.
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:42am
  - G152
    
    Well, they usually get the folios correct (Page numbers to them who have a passing interest)
    
    11 2
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    May 3, 2020 8:58am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    At least they don’t say unbiased.
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:30am
- tf78
  
  Banality is as far as many of the lefties minds can stretch.
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:19am
- kwkiwigirl
  
  I’m finding there are more objective reports on what’s happening in NZ on overseas websites. Apart from the ones where Ardern’s team have planted paid editorial about what a Wonder Woman she is. However those articles are blatantly obvious.
  
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  May 3, 2020 11:46am
Manolo

Rumour has it that PM Ardern is outraged: she hates competition.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/kim-jong-un-resurfaces-state-media-says-after-weeks-of-health-rumors/ar-BB13uU91

North Korea’s leader, Kim Jong-un, resurfaced in public view on Friday, the North’s state news media reported Saturday, controverting three weeks of rumours and unconfirmed news reports that he was in grave danger after undergoing heart surgery.>/i>
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May 3, 2020 8:08am
- DeepBlue
  
  Not forgetting Boris has a baby.
  
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  May 3, 2020 10:31am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Well, Boris’s fiancée did. Boris May be “super-Tory” but actually giving birth is still a bit beyond him.
    
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    May 3, 2020 11:51am
    - DeepBlue
      
      @Ed, Well, Boris ‘has’ a son as in he is the father, not ‘had’ a son as in physically given birth.
      
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      May 3, 2020 12:59pm
gorse

Stuff has an article on buying New Zealand made. It starts with a photograph of a pair of Skellerup Red Band gumboots. These are made in China, have been for years. Can’t even get that right.
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May 3, 2020 8:10am
- Simon
  
  Yep that’s the Neolib globalist victory. Heavily indebted society able to buy a $10 toaster but the average house price in Auckland is $1,000,000.
  
  The system has just fallen apart. Labour & National just dont know it yet.
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:48am
  - smttc
    
    Oh go on Simon. Spoil us and tell us which other party you are going to vote for.
    
    You were the idiot at the last election saying “Let the other [del.] have a go”.
    
    As Winston would say, had enough yet? Well have you punk?
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:45am
    - smttc
      
      Moderator: That was a quote. So why the deletion? He said exactly that “mongs”.
      
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      May 3, 2020 10:18am
  - Stephen Russell
    
    If toasters were made in New Zealand they might cost $1,000,000 too.
    
    17 3
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    May 3, 2020 9:52am
  - rjay
    
    And yet the bit you complain about is the heavily regulated housing sector. It is the bit that demonstrates the failure of central planning.
    
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    May 3, 2020 11:17am
  - Ed Snack
    
    That’s the price some of us have paid for the “rescue mission” that swung into action after the 2008-9 financial crisis. Maintaining liquidity by pumping in volume to compensate for the lowering of monetary velocity works at some levels, but the downside is that it creates huge bubbles in asset prices. Houses aren’t the only bubble, but in NZ terms it is the most visible bubble to most.
    
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    May 3, 2020 11:54am
- Fletch
  
  Yup, I pointed out the other day that it would be hard to boycott Chinese goods, because lots of things you think are made here are manufactured in China now. Even Fisher and Paykel were bought out by Chinese group Haier in 2012.
  
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  May 3, 2020 11:00am
redeye

Willie Jackson bragged about the overseas media adulation for Ardern on the AM show and Garner just nodded obligingly.
I note there have been quite a few Guardian articles but with the exception of Tony Blair’s paid liar Alastair Campbell, the rest appear to have been written by NZ journalists from NZ.
The Altantic magazine article was an interview with Helen Clark and the only other international adorer I can find is the intellectual heavyweight, Whoopi Goldberg.
So has there been any real critical analysis of this governments handling of COVID-19 by any recognized overseas journalists/analyst? Not that I can find.
A good leader should inspire and make people feel good about themselves. This one is playing to the insecure, approval-needy part of the kiwi psyche.
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May 3, 2020 8:13am
- Don Beckett
  
  Welcome to the shutdown for the Clayton’s Pandemic – the pandemic you have when you don’t have a pandemic.
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:36am
  - Scott
    
    Quite agree Don. Right now we have 6 people in hospital, no one in ICU. Why are we still shut down? What is to be gained with more time in lock down?
    Interestingly enough actual doctors who are treating the virus seem to be having good results with a combination of drugs including hydroxy…!
    Apparently putting people on ventilators just makes things worse. But these drugs appear to be having a good effect.
    Will it take a cure for us to be released out of lock down?
    
    “A group of critical care physicians representing the University of Tennessee, the University of Wisconsin, Eastern Virginia Medical School, the University of Texas and a number of other institutions have formed the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Consortium and released a bulletin setting out a recommended treatment protocol. The protocol is based largely on the fact that it is not the virus, but the body’s reaction to the virus, that kills patients:
    
    [I]t is the severe inflammation sparked by the Coronavirus, not the virus itself, that kills patients. Inflammation causes a new variety of Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome (ARDS), which damages the lungs.
    
    Practicing doctors are highly familiar with inflammatory conditions and a number of known treatments have been adapted to COVID-19. The linked bulletin advocates early intervention–the key–using Vitamin C, heparin, Methylprednisolone and Hydroxychloroquine.”
    
    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/05/how-treatable-is-covid-19.php
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:13am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      In italy a survey of 65000 lupus and rheumatism sufferers that use hydroxychloroquine daily found only 10% as many wuflu infections as average, and zero deaths vs 30 that would have been expected at average rates. Prophylactic or immediate treatment once infection is detected seem like might be very effective.
      
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      May 3, 2020 9:52am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Apparently it depends on what ‘type’ of immune system we have. Biologists say that there are 2 types of immune system – active and passive. The active immunity attacks the virus (or infection) and destroys it. The passive system focusses on protecting the ‘body’ rather than attacking the virus, an in its attempt to protect, sometimes overwhelms, and causes death. Sound reasonable, but I’m no doctor – but I heard that from someone much more knowledgeable than I.
        
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        May 3, 2020 10:31am
    - freethinker
      
      Whats the differnece between the “New Covid 19” killer drug Retro********* and Hydro********?
      Answer Retro is new, patented and costs $$$$$$$$$$$$
      Hydro is off patent and costs – Pennies.
      Trump knew Hydro was effective and MSM rubbished him, Trump was right yet again, so just follow the money.
      PS Russia tried to Patent the drug just before they announced Covid 19 – join the dots. So come on MMM and the other trolls Trump bad CCP good.
      
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      May 3, 2020 9:57am
      - Northshoredoc
        
        Well remdesivir and HCQ are two completely different classes of drug.
        
        There is no robust evidence that HCQ is effective against COVID 19 at present which is why there are a number of clinical trials ongoing around the world in the preventative and treatment settings.
        
        Conversely there is now good robust evidence that remdesivir is active to some degree against covid 19 in vivo.
        
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        May 3, 2020 10:11am
      - tf78
        
        Google Dr Shiva – he sets out exactly how big Pharma are exploiting us all.
        
        5 1
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        May 3, 2020 10:30am
      - Ed Snack
        
        North shore doc, I suggest that you read the papers about Remdesvir with a more practised eye. The statistical evidence for effectiveness is just not there. The p values are skewed, and the actual measures show that it is no more effective than HCQ based on equivalent studies. Medical misuse of statistics is legendary, and it does look like this is another example of that.
        
        One troubling feature, a significant chunk of those people recommending RDV treatment have a financial interest in Gilead, who produces RDV. Each RDV injection is said to cost around US$18.5K.
        
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        May 3, 2020 11:59am
      - Northshoredoc
        
        Hi Tony
        
        My eye is reasonably practised when it comes to clinical trials
        
        I have seen one phase 3 trial with remdesivir which has reported positive results in covid 19 patients.
        
        https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-clinical-trial-shows-remdesivir-accelerates-recovery-advanced-covid-19
        
        I have no see no trials of CQP or HCQ that provide any assurance of efficacy either as a preventative medication or as a treatment for infected patients – hence why there are a number on ongoing trials investigating HCQ in particular being undertaken across ANZ/North America and in the EU.
        
        As remdesivir is being given away FoC by Gilead it’s not exactly a big money spinner for them at present – they are not short of cash however as they have been very successful with HIV and Hep C medications in particular.
        
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        May 3, 2020 1:10pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Did you want more deaths and a greater number of infections Scott? Then you would have said we should have locked down. What’s happened in America doesn’t require any imagination.
      The ‘shoulda’ arguments are getting left behind in the wake now. Try to move on.
      
      1 21
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      May 3, 2020 11:03am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Now that our medical resources are coping we should open up some more.
        To achieve Population Immunity a lot of us ACTUALLY HAVE TO CATCH IT
        Yes, that means we let the infection run its course though our community.
        The fact that people are too stupid to see this is disturbing.
        The only point of lockdown was to avoid our hospitals being over run.
        We have succeeded at that.
        But that doesn’t solve the fact the Virus is still there.
        
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        May 3, 2020 11:41am
      - RiP NZ
        
        Pharmac made/make decisions which are effectively life or death for a % of the population as a matter of policy and governance.
        What forms the basis of these decisions? Cost benefit.
        
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        May 3, 2020 11:53am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Sigh, you don’t get population or herd immunity from a disease naturally. You get a large but not universal immune pool, and the disease stays as a chronic infection at a low level until the immune pool numbers drop, then you get mini epidemics. And that cycle repeats. Measles is far more spreadable than SARS-Cov2 and yet it was not “eliminated” in the population (or effectively suppressed) until vaccines were available.
        
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        May 3, 2020 12:02pm
      - RdM
        
        Ed Snack writes:
        Measles is far more spreadable than SARS-Cov2 and yet it was not “eliminated” in the population (or effectively suppressed) until vaccines were available
        
        This is simply not true.
        But it’s typical of pharma propaganda.
        And weak government MoH kowtowing to it.
        
        (Just as they do with anti-tobacco propaganda!)
        
        Look at these graphs.
        
        Measles deaths had declined to almost zero, with real immunity, years before the vaccine …
        
        https://malagabay.files.wordpress.com/2019/05/uk-measles-1838-1978.gif
        
        http://www.jayne-donegan.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/measlesChart.jpg
        
        Unfortunately the vaccine doesn’t confer real immunity.
        Not from mother to child.
        Weirdly, communities with most vaccinated get outbreaks.
        Is it really effective?
        
        Links above from:
        
        https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2019/05/29/pop-goes-the-measles/
        
        http://www.jayne-donegan.co.uk/measles-2013
        
        NB the proposed treatment of measles there.
        
        The old-fashioned way, which worked.
        
        You do not want to suppress the fever.
        
        I wonder what protocols – perhaps suppressing the fever with paracetamol or ibuprofen etc.- were exercised in Samoa or even here in NZ, that may have contributed to deaths, out of ignorance.
        
        I’ve enjoyed reading MalagaBay for some years, commenting on a variety of subjects, some deeply intellectual, others lighthearted.
        
        The latest is (you can find the home page) ;-
        
        https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2020/04/30/lockdown-lunacy/
        
        Just an aside …
        
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        May 3, 2020 10:11pm
  - Sacha
    
    Pandemic? Maybe not here, but a large part of the rest of the world is a sitting duck
    Read all about it here, with Dr John Campbell, and ponder our global future.
    
    https://youtu.be/nRmt78mAKfg
    
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    May 3, 2020 2:53pm
- Happychappy
  
  I have been pointing out that the stories or fluff pieces as I call them being posted
  by overseas media are being penned by NZ scribes . Charlotte Graham Mclay ,Eleanor Ainge Roy and Bryce Edward’s.
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/29/new-zealand-health-ministry-floated-closing-borders-to-citizens-over-covid-19
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/01/jacinda-ardern-and-her-government-soar-in-popularity-during-coronavirus-crisis
  This one by UMR.
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:48am
  - fernglas
    
    Those things only show up if you source them from New Zealand. The rest of the world remains blissfully unaware of the outstanding quality of NZ journalism. If you want to avoid Jacinda’s arse-kissers get a VPN and get the Guardian through the UK
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:27am
  - tf78
    
    Thank goodness the Guardian in Australia are all but broke.
    
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    May 3, 2020 10:31am
- 3-coil
  
  Hey redeye! don’t mock Whoopi Goldberg’s intellect. She is so smart she can be an apologist for child-rapist Roman Polanski AND claim her #metoo credentials at the same time – it must take a very big head to accommodate those polar opposites!
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:26am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Garner is List #23 on Labour’s list.
  
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  May 3, 2020 10:50am
jv

How to lose trust; don’t deliver on the original rules, keep changing the rules, keep saying it is up to “you”, keep saying we haven’t decided, pretend to recognise the social, mental and economic impacts, mimic your mentor and – oh dear level 2.5 is the naughty corner
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May 3, 2020 8:13am
DRHILL

So TV1 news last night had the story about not being enough flu jabs for the country and instead of getting David Clarke they get the associate health minister from the Greens.
Are we sure David Clarke is the health minister anymore???
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May 3, 2020 8:18am
- Tony Stuart
  
  They got Julie Anne Genter, because this is an issue for which she holds the delegated authority as Associate Health Minister. No conspiracy this time.
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:27am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Both are equally incompetent, ride bicycles and are contemptible of the unwashed
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:21am
  - Prince
    
    So Clarke has no responsibility for this ? Serious question.
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:25am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Clark has the ultimate authority within health, but vaccinations is a portfolio area delegated to one of the Associate Ministers, in this case Genter.
      
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      May 3, 2020 1:25pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    The articles have been saying about to run out this week with more on the way. Genter then says that some people won’t get flu shots this year.
    In a different feature, a group organised by Dave Letele is administering flu shots in Manukau.
    I know there was an early call for over 65s and those that are health compromised to get flu shots early.
    
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    May 3, 2020 11:09am
    - Ed Snack
      
      It is free for 65 and overs. A lot of companies also organise it for their staff.
      
      Not sure if the shortages in NZ are due to extra demand, pressure on suppliers so we can’t actually get what we need, or simple incompetence. If extra demand only, then a delay is likely but eventually everyone who wants one will get it.
      
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      May 3, 2020 12:05pm
      - Paulus
        
        Understood that 1.8 million flu vaccines were to have been ordered for this year !
        So where are they ?
        
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        May 3, 2020 1:26pm
      - niggly
        
        Hmmm, shouldn’t the govt (in theory) be ordering enough vaccines to cover “everyone” (eg all 4.8m of us)?!!!
        
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        May 3, 2020 3:15pm
  - Nutta
    
    Genter has found that using cycles for healthcare and vaccination supplies distribution isn’t as successful as hoped…
    
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    May 4, 2020 12:19am
- Chris Peace
  
  They got Julie Anne Genter so that the very outspoken person on this subject, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, did not have to make a public retraction and admit that she had been wrong all along !!
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:37am
- Northshoredoc
  
  David Clarke is recognised by most NZ clinicians and managers within the health system as the least competent Minister of Health we’ve for a number of years.
  
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  May 3, 2020 10:13am
- DeepBlue
  
  JA and DC both insisted he is available for interviews from Dunedin. Someone bloody well interview him.
  
  There must be a hack out there somewhere who can phone him.
  
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  May 3, 2020 10:36am
- theoldbloke
  
  I think MS Adern has got Dwight D Eisenhower quote backwards.
  She only wants to take credit for good stuff. Hence an associate Minister of Health pushed under the bus…
  
  “Leadership consists of nothing but taking responsibility for everything that goes wrong and giving your subordinates credit for everything that goes well.”
  
  What is wrong with Jacinda fronting up and saying
  Sorry I got it wrong when I said there were plenty of flu jabs for everyone!!!!
  In future I will listen more closely to those on the front line.
  
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  May 3, 2020 2:49pm
Swifty

ALL HUMANS WILL SELF-ISOLATE BY ORDER OF THE DALEKS!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MvbkehQqOY
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May 3, 2020 8:21am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Govt has 50 on order now – there is no shortage
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:44am
RockyJ

Breaking news, go to Jo Holmes’ excellent research on the top 86 salaried staff in Auckland Council. Thanks Auckland Ratepayers Alliance.
What strikes me is the extreme lack of diversity. Zero Maori and Pacifica and no Chinese asian.
Just goes to show that Auckland Council is really just a ‘make work scheme’ for over educated white people.
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May 3, 2020 8:23am
- Inandout
  
  RockyJ, yes got that email too, what a victory for democracy, and what a bunch of bloated salaryists in that line up. Now all you recently sacked employees in Auckland, just remember your rates pay these outrageous salaries.
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:50am
  - tf78
    
    Inandout – their salaries are over half the income they take from rates – that should tell you something. They have totally forgotten what they’re there for.
    
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    May 3, 2020 10:36am
- kowtow
  
  The type who make a big display of ‘Ki ora’ and wear bone , just to make sure we all know how very diverse they themselves are .
  
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  May 3, 2020 10:34am
- tf78
  
  I just can’t believe how many people working for the same council offshoot such as Water Care have so many overpaid bosses. They could have built a dam with the money these idiots have been paid for the last 10 or more years.
  
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  May 3, 2020 10:34am
  - chukar
    
    And how about accountability?
    Elected Councillors have no show achieving that!
    
    2 0
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    May 3, 2020 5:19pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Point of fact: Patricia Reade is a New Zealander of Polynesian descent.
  
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  May 3, 2020 11:36am
  - RockyJ
    
    Ah, one then. Not a good look, nonetheless for the world’s largest Polynesian city. Not that I am suggesting a quota.
    
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    May 3, 2020 1:55pm
    - Jack5
      
      The world’s biggest Polynesian city!
      
      According to Wikipedia, there are about 2 million Polynesians or part-Polynesians in the world.
      
      More than Eskimo/Inuit, of whom there are about 160,000 across Alaska, Canada, Russia, and Greenland.
      
      Auckland’s population, from the 2013 census, is about 1.6 million, with 25.3 per cent identifying as Maori or Pacific Islander, while 23.1 per cent are Asians, and 59.3 per cent are whites. Yes the figures, taken from the source below, don’t add up. A lot of Jaffas don’t know what they are.
      
      Since 2013, there has been a big inflow of Asians, with NZ immigration-driven total population growth about the highest of any developed country.
      
      It’s too bad that the Statistics Department has been too incompetent to complete a census since 2013.
      
      What the imminent economic dive will do to population growth and mix will be interesting. Especially if Australia closes its “back door” to NZ residents.
      
      Auckland population 2020:
      
      https://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/auckland-population/
      
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      May 3, 2020 3:47pm
Tony Stuart

Is the Prime Minister going to be held to account for misleading New Zealand over the flu vaccine situation? This was Ms Ardern on 22 April (Wednesday last week):

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says she disagrees with claims the Government hasn’t been good enough when it comes to the rollout of flu vaccinations, saying older New Zealanders have been prioritised.
Ardern made the comments while giving a Covid-19 update with Director-General of Health Ashley Bloomfield this afternoon.

The roll-out of the flu vaccine was described as a “debacle” and “total disaster” by the NZ Medical Association’s chair Dr Kate Baddock when speaking to the Epidemic Response Committee earlier today.

Baddock said the issues with the rollout of flu vaccine meant her practice went without for 10 days while they had 4000 vulnerable people they needed to vaccinate.

“The flu vaccine was a complete debacle – there’s absolutely no doubt about that,” she told the committee.

But the Prime Minister said she disagreed with that assessment.

“The flu vaccine and flu vaccinations started earlier than we usually would, for good reason – we wanted to be prepared. And we have more flu vaccine than we would usually offer as well.

”So I disagree with their assessment of the flu vaccine. We want to protect New Zealanders and that’s why we moved early in order to do that. It’s not finished, it will be a rolling campaign.

“We prioritised those who were at the greatest risk – older New Zealanders, pregnant New Zealanders and groups that usually would be just waiting with every other New Zealander to be vaccinated. So we moved early, we got more vaccine and we continue with the flu vaccination programme.”

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/pm-rejects-claim-poor-flu-vaccine-rollout

Turns out the PM was wrong, and Dr Kate Baddock and the many other frontline medical staff who have criticised the flu vaccine rollout were right:

An email leaked from the Ministry of Health has revealed New Zealand is facing a temporary shortage of the flu vaccine amid the Covid-19 outbreak.

The leaked email comes as officials have repeatedly denied we are running out, insisting problems with availability have been down to distribution and not a lack of stock.

The email says the vaccine for children under three is nearly all gone and warns of an overall ‘gap’ in flu jabs before the next shipment later this month.

At Karori Medical Centre, business has been non-stop with up to 80 flu vaccinations being done a day, double the same time as last year.

Helen Grisdale a nurse at the medical centre says there are only enough flu vaccines to last until next week. The centre estimating it has at least 500 elderly, pregnant or vulnerable people in the community still needing the vaccine.

“We have enough vaccines to honour the flu clinics we currently have running, but after Thursday next week we have no more vaccines,” she told 1 NEWS.

Bryan Betty of the Royal New Zealand College of GPs says the next batch are due to arrive on the 10th of May.

A letter leaked to 1 NEWS shows just how bad the situation is.

The Health Ministry is warning of a gap in supply until the next shipment is released on May 12 and says it wants providers to prioritise the vulnerable and delay anyone else.

Demand has been unprecedented with 1.3 million vaccines distributed.

All last month, officials were confident of our supply – even today Grant Robertson saying there wasn’t a problem.

“Just to be really clear about that – there are 700,000 vaccine doses around the country that have not yet been administered, so they are in the community. There is availability of flu vaccine,” he said.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/leaked-ministry-health-email-reveals-nz-facing-temporary-shortage-flu-vaccine

The responsible Minister here is Julie Anne Genter, and this is the third time the Associate Health Minister has screwed up vaccines, following the Northland meningococcal disease outbreak and the nationwide measles epidemic last year. She must go.

But the PM, who has vehemently stated she is right, must make a public apology for misleading New Zealand. If she was wrongly advised by Ministers or advisors, she needs to bang some heads together, but ultimately, the buck stops with her.

Ms Ardern revels in the praise she receives from around the world for things she does well, But the other side of the coin in this; when there is a screw-up, as there undoubtedly has been with regard to flu vaccine, she needs to own it.

Disclaimer: Due to an underlying condition, I am on the priority list for flu vaccine. I have not yet received my vaccination this year, and I don’t know when I will.
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May 3, 2020 8:24am
- MrTips
  
  Completely agree Tony. Would also suggest Clark and Bloomfield need to stump up as well. No point in adoring Ashley for the 1pm standups, nor criticising Clark for the lockdown breaches, if they didn’t have significant roles. They are the MofH and DG for goodness sake!!!! It’s their job to know these things, and NOT LIE or be party to the lie about it.
  
  And we rightly criticise the complicit media on this, but it has to be said: if it weren’t for continuing action by Michael Morrah, would we have got this admission at all?
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:36am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Mike Morrah has been a shining example of a tenacious journalist unafraid to take on the establishment. I suspect he won’t be getting a Christmas card this year from any of the senior management at Canterbury DHB in particular; he has exposed their failure to get PPE to frontline staff.
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:01am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Tony, do you think those that were proritised for flu shots by the MOH should not have been?
      
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      May 3, 2020 11:33am
    - GJM
      
      I also suspect he won’t be getting any of the $50m that the CoL used to purchase the NZ media. His long term career options may include being the on the spot reporter for the Gulag News.
      
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      May 4, 2020 3:30pm
- herb1
  
  ditto about not being able to get flu vaccine shot.
  Im told I’m a priority with multiple open heart surgery , one fully functioning lung and just been told I’ve got cancer . not to mention about to turn 60.
  But Winstons nominee tells me its my Doctors fault
  
  53 1
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  May 3, 2020 8:42am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Talk about shitty hands, there for the grace of God.
    
    I hope all goes well for you.
    
    24 0
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    May 3, 2020 9:27am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Did you try for one when the call when out for the health-compromised to get a shot?
    
    2 15
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    May 3, 2020 11:34am
- stewmar
  
  I’m over 65 and last week when I called GP’s rooms to make an appointment for a flu shot I was told they had run out with no more available until mid May…… go figure, whose right, the ministry or the rock face……?
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:45am
- Poppa
  
  Tony I actually got a call from my medical centre about 3 weeks ago asking if I wanted one. I said yes & was booked in within a day
  
  I would say certain areas may be better off than others
  
  I agree with you overall though it is another lie
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:46am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It is also worth noting that the delegated responsibility that JAG has for vaccination issues comes from the Minister of Health. That has two implications
  
  1. He can withdraw or change those delegations at any time, and he does not need the agreement of the PM to do so.
  
  2. Because of his powers in (1) he is ultimately responsible if vaccine delivery fails.
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:55am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Correct. But ultimately, every Minister serves at the pleasure of the Prime Minister, even those Ministers from the Greens and NZ First.
    
    Sadly though, in the most open and transparent government New Zealand has ever seen, accountability seems to be completely lacking.
    
    37 2
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    May 3, 2020 9:08am
    - oldfella
      
      T.S. ‘But ultimately, every Minister serves at the pleasure of the Prime Minister, even those Ministers from the Greens and NZ First’.
      Unless that minister is Winston. I guess he’s safe.
      
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      May 3, 2020 10:39am
- RockyJ
  
  The main difference between Trump and Jacinda is that at least you know when Trump is lying
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:04am
  - emmess
    
    Well if you listen to the MSM they tell you he is lying all the time. So technically I suppose you are correct.
    
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    May 3, 2020 10:54am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  I had my flu jab back in March then last week I had a text from my GP telling me to come and get my flu jab.
  Could there be a bit of doubling-up of the data going on here?
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:08am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Got my flu jab early with no hassles at all. Possibly the huge increase in doses ordered, and the huge rise in demand, has led to some delivery problems. There probably needs to be some sort of investigation, at them moment there isn’t much data on what effect this has had, ie, how many vaccinations have been given, who might have missed out, and what systemic errors might have occurred.
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:20am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      To be fair Mike, I think Dr Kate Baddock, Chair of the NZ Medical Council and a GP herself probably knows what is happening on the front line. And she described this year’s flu vaccine rollout as a “complete shambles”, a claim denied by the Prime Minister, but now shown to be 100% correct.
      
      Good on you for getting in nice and early; I didn’t have that luxury.
      
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      May 3, 2020 10:15am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        Why not Tony?
        
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        May 3, 2020 11:37am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        A four letter word – work. Things got very busy in early March, and even moreso midway through the month when the likelihood of us having to shut our businesses down became real.
        
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        May 3, 2020 1:29pm
      - MCos
        
        The problem, from what I can see, stems from far more people than usual wanting the jab and the whole roll out getting the speed wobbles.
        The shots had to be ordered last year, apparently, and even though 400,000 extra were ordered demand has outstripped supply.
        I got a shot before Level 4 swung in & now I find it wears off after six months, which might not even cover the tail end of the flu season. Shouldn’t have looked it up!
        
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        May 3, 2020 5:39pm
    - Northshoredoc
      
      Unless you’re in a high risk group MM I’m going to call BS on your claim that you’ve been vaccinated already.
      
      11 6
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      May 3, 2020 10:20am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Mikenmild has already said that he, like me, has underlying conditions which give him priority. I see no reason to disbelieve him on this.
        
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        May 3, 2020 10:47am
      - Northshoredoc
        
        Fair enough then – I apologise for doubting the veracity of his claim.
        
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        May 3, 2020 10:56am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        I was vaccinated early as being over 65 so bullshit to you. My wife who is under 65 had to wait 2 days when she rang about a week later in that she is in a diet based controlled pre-diabetic condition. She was told that they had run out and would rung when fresh supplies arrived.
        
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        May 3, 2020 11:43am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Well, I had my vaccination a couple of weeks ago. It was a drive through in a under-building car park. Very efficient. Had to wait a week, but no trouble getting a time to go in.
        
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        May 3, 2020 12:13pm
    - doggone7
      
      The ministers are at the mercy of Ministry of Health staff. Adern and co. don’t go to the storerooms and count the supplies or organise the distribution.
      
      After getting reports they say what the situation is according to what they’ve been to.
      
      If they are told stuff that is bullshit and repeat it? You surmise the departmental people are incompetent, covering their own arses by making stuff up or deliberately setting out to undermine the politicians. That last one is dirty politics though and we don’t do that in New Zealand.
      
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      May 3, 2020 11:47am
      - MCos
        
        Personally I don’t know what’s gone on, but I always think the politicians should take it on the chin if they are incorrect just the same as they are quick to take credit if they’re correct.
        They can always give a rocket to someone who gave them the bad info/advice in private, which I’m sure they do.
        The last thing an outsider wants to hear is the big boss palming responsibility off onto a subordinate.
        
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        May 3, 2020 5:52pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  This scandal has been swiftly buried, after a single cringe-worthy interview of JAG on TV, in which she said it was all just an unfortunate “miscommunication” and the head of the GPs Association said it was “misleading”.
  
  No mention of it anywhere in Stuff that I can find, including a search of “flu vaccine” “flu vaccination” and “vaccination” on the Stuffed website.
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:19am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep,
    
    Nothing about it on RNZ
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/search/results?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=Flu+Vaccine&commit=Search
    
    16 1
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    May 3, 2020 10:09am
- Bill Felt
  
  Tony. Thanks for the write up. When the press are in the back pocket of the PM we need analysis like this.
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:32am
- Inandout
  
  Tony, when all this is over and our economy is in tatters, we will have to have a Royal Commission.
  
  ‘A Royal Commission is the most serious response to an issue available to the New Zealand Government. It investigates matters of great importance and difficulty.
  
  A Royal Commission is engaged in fact-finding and preventing future recurrences. It investigates why the situation came about and then recommends policy or legislative changes to prevent it happening again.
  
  The Government establishes terms of reference, which set out what subjects are to be investigated. However a Royal Commission is independent from the Government and reports to the Governor-General. The way the inquiry is conducted and the Commission is run is decided by the Chair and Commissioners. The Government cannot interfere in the direction taken by an inquiry or influence the findings.
  
  A Royal Commission can inquire into any matters it sees fit in order to determine the cause of the issues. Chaired by a High Court judge who is appointed by the Governor-General, it has the powers of compulsion in regard to witnesses, documentation and awarding costs. This enables the Royal Commission to uncover information which might otherwise be difficult to obtain.
  
  Evidence is gathered from a range of different places and sources, including from participants and through the Commission’s own investigations. Public hearings are one important part of the inquiry process. They provide an opportunity to clarify matters, test disputed material and ensure that key evidence is discussed in public.
  
  A Royal Commission is not able to determine legal rights and liabilities. Findings and recommendations are not binding upon any party, including the Government’.
  
  15 2
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  May 3, 2020 9:56am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    We SHOULD have a Royal Commission to inquire into the Government’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Whether or not we WILL get one is anyone’s guess. After all, David Clark SHOULD have been sacked!
    
    27 1
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    May 3, 2020 10:17am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      A Royal Commission may need to wait for a National Government. If the current government is returned, I predict some form of post mortem inquiry but it will not be independent.
      
      23 1
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      May 3, 2020 10:59am
  - Scooter
    
    Sorry meant uptick
    
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    May 3, 2020 10:21pm
- Jimbob
  
  Same here with priority, in the town where my medical centre is, no flu shot for last three weeks. Total cluster…
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:57am
- Northshoredoc
  
  It is an appalling situation Tony and one that has been causing a large degree of annoyance amongst healthcare providers for some time.
  
  Unfortunately the flu vaccine shambles is the tip of a very ugly iceberg within the MoH and healthcare in NZ which if the public and those in opposition find out about would be very harmful to the current governments chance of re election.
  
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  May 3, 2020 10:17am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    That doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. David Clark has been too busy telling everyone about “nine years of neglect” to have done anything much meaningful. Surely, the alarm bells should have been ringing when Julie Anne Genter so mismanaged the meningococcal disease outbreak.
    
    25 1
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    May 3, 2020 10:45am
    - Nightsky-one
      
      What’s the bet that anyone who dies of the Flu now and couldn’t get the Jab, will be swept under the big Covid 19 carpet.
      
      Thanks Jacinda.
      
      16 0
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      May 3, 2020 12:13pm
  - gorse
    
    Northshoredoc, it would be the responsible thing to do to make sure the opposition are fully briefed.
    
    11 1
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    May 3, 2020 11:53am
    - Northshoredoc
      
      The opposition have been fully informed when they were in government they know the parlous state of certain health services in NZ including the shambles that is PHARMAC, the bureaucratic and wasteful shambles that is the Ministry of Health and the ageing population bulge that’ll put spending levels through the roof.
      
      Since the departure of Tony Ryall from the health portfolio there’s been a ongoing decline which has accelerated under the current muppets.
      
      12 1
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      May 3, 2020 1:15pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  My docs in CHCH hadn’t received theirs before the 4 level confinement. This later time of the year is usual.
  Ardern seems to have been painting lilies again. She invents what she doesn’t know. It’s pleasing she not in charge of our Armed Forces–she could twford a whole battalion in the blink of an eyelid.
  
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  May 3, 2020 3:52pm
- MCos
  
  ‘Is the Prime Minister going to be held to account’
  
  Yes
  
  At the next election.
  
  On the other hand the bloke running the show in China has nothing to worry about in that respect.
  
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  May 3, 2020 5:28pm
The Proper Ghandi

Can we please get this guy in? He is the former Chief Epidemiologist in Sweden, where a sensible approach has been taken. He makes some very salient points, particularly that many people will have already had the virus and been none the wiser.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2TEOnOnHVM
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May 3, 2020 8:25am
fernglas

A friend of mine has a small business, employing about 17 people. A number of them have simply refused to come back to work, giving all sorts of reasons, but the base reason seems to be that they are being paid well by the Government and can’t be sacked. Can anyone explain to me why the Government thought fit to pay out 12 weeks of the wage subsidy in one hit, when there was every likelihood that businesses would be back within 4 weeks? As it is, it is just an incentive to the idle.
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May 3, 2020 8:28am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Those will be the ones laid off first when job losses inevitably happen.
  
  57 1
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  May 3, 2020 8:37am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Profitable businesses have learnt a lot about their staff over the last six weeks. Many of these businesses will use the downturn for a clean out and run a lean wage bill for the next six months while waiting for the election and policy outcome. They can now pick up new, dedicated staff with aligned values from a huge pool at any time.
    
    That’s why unemployment will be closer to 30% than 8% by July.
    
    27 2
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    May 3, 2020 10:48am
- Isobar
  
  Context is probably important too, what market is the business in? Can some of the work be done from home, is social distancing in place to protect the employees in the workplace.
  
  The wage subsidy is not a payment to do nothing, but under level 3 businesses are still required to allow staff to work from home if they can do so.
  
  I would imagine poor performing staff would be the first ones to go as mentioned above.
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:54am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Yep, I’m in an “essential industry” but everyone who can work from home is doing so until the end of Level 3.
    
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    May 3, 2020 12:15pm
    - Isobar
      
      That’s brilliant, there are a lot of jobs that could also make the leap to a more permanent work from home scenario. The technology is there now.
      
      Despite what your boss might tell you, that meeting probably could have been an email ?
      
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      May 3, 2020 4:15pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Distancing seems to be doubtful:
    https://aclearerpicture.net/2020/05/02/there-are-actually-two-distinct-scams-involved-in-getting-people-to-accept-the-lock-down-and-the-less-dangerous-one-is-hiding-the-vastly-more-dangerous-one/
    
    The Poms are reluctant to go back to work too. I know that also from my daughter in the UK–they have been really scared:
    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/05/02/blitz-spirit-hardly-most-britons-still-too-scared-to-leave-home/
    
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    May 3, 2020 3:57pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  Providing you follow the proper process, they can be legitimately dismissed for abandoning their employment.
  
  Or are they continuing to do their work, but simply refusing to attend their normal workplace?
  
  If it’s the latter, it’s a tricky situation and I strongly recommend paying for some good legal advice.
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:24am
  - fernglas
    
    No. It’s a hands on job that can’t be done from home, and where social distancing is difficult but not impossible. It mainly seems to be that otherwise perfectly healthy young people in their twenties are either terrified of dying, thanks to the scare tactics used to keep them in place, or see a good opportunity for an extended holiday. I would be very cautious about firing the office cockroach at the moment, but I wonder why these people can’t see that without them there doing their job, there may not be a job for them to go to in 6 weeks time. Some are predicting half the workforce could become unemployed, but their idol Jacinda has said nothing about that. All she tells them is to stay home and be safe, when they are actually lining themselves up for years of unemployment and poverty. Doesn’t anyone want to tell the truth?
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:37am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I’m casually asking everyone I 2m-bump into whether they’ve gone stir crazy in Lockdown yet.
      
      Surprise, surprise… many reply that they are enjoying their enforced home-detention.
      
      When the only decisions you have to make for yourself are what to eat for lunch and when to go shopping, then you can see this type of circumscribed life appeals to folks of limited possibilities.
      
      31 2
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      May 3, 2020 10:19am
      - fernglas
        
        When the decisions become whether to eat lunch, and where to go begging the appeal will wear off.
        
        16 0
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        May 3, 2020 10:23am
      - DeepBlue
        
        $1,000 per week per working couple far exceeds the dole. Choices are rosy until Week 8 of the lockdown, when they receive redundancy notices.
        
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        May 3, 2020 10:52am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Can’t understand people with that mentality, Maggy. I turn 78 this month and being forced to stay home is driving me nuts. I’m perfectly healthy – probably more so than a lot of 50 y/olds. I still do carpentry and building work(retired builder), can’t go for runs anymore because of a knee joint replacement but regularly walk for 5 or 6 kms. Have my own small home gym in the garage, even though I don’t use it as much as I should.
        So lockdown is now off for me. I now regularly visit a couple of mates, and both my sons & their families. I’m starting work again at my son’s place at the Mount where I was doing decks, screens etc at his house for 2 months before all this bullshit started – so I’m going back there now to carry on. Finished most of the endless list that ‘she-who-must-be-obeyed’ constantly prepares, so away I go – lockdown be buggered.
        
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        May 3, 2020 11:00am
      - cmm
        
        Decision making is thinking. Hard work.
        
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        May 3, 2020 5:51pm
    - Isobar
      
      Taking politics aside, if the business cannot keep workers 2m apart (and also 2m apart from any customers) it is simply unsafe to operate. Under level 3, rather than the workers being punished, the business owner could be forced to close if they cannot keep their staff safe.
      
      I feel for your friend, its a shit situation to be in. But surely its also in his interests to ensure the business can operate safely at all times?
      
      5 12
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      May 3, 2020 10:21am
      - Inandout
        
        Isobar, come September and the restrictions still apply, so our glorious leader calls off the election. Of course ‘safety’ is always the bullshit excuse. On the plus side I hear a glimmer of satire leeching from the supermarket lines, so you can only fool the people for a set period.
        
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        May 3, 2020 11:28am
      - fernglas
        
        I said the business could operate safely.
        
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        May 3, 2020 11:42am
      - theoldbloke
        
        Isobar.
        There really is only one reply.
        Bollocks.
        Facemasks and 1 metre spacing is fine.
        Dont get sucked in to the NZ PR spin about 2 metres.
        
        This from Singapore Government
        
        The WHO has advised to maintain at least one metre distance between yourself and anyone who is sneezing and coughing. That’s because when someone coughs or sneezes, they spray small liquid droplets from their nose or mouth which may contain the virus.
        
        https://www.gov.sg/article/keeping-a-safe-distance-can-lower-the-spread-of-covid-19
        
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        May 3, 2020 3:27pm
      - Isobar
        
        Apologies i misinterpreted when you said Social Distancing would be difficult.
        
        Good to hear, in which case your friend would be best getting some legal advice on his options.
        
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        May 3, 2020 4:18pm
    - fernglas
      
      See this article for someone else with the same problem https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/prosper/regulation/121325855/staff-urged-to-come-back-to-work-and-save-their-jobs-and-the-economy
      
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      May 3, 2020 10:22am
      - Inandout
        
        fernglas, I did see ‘support the stuff you love’ banner and quickly departed.
        
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        May 3, 2020 11:30am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      It appears to be a pretty clear case of abandoning their employment, and I still recommend your friend gets some legal advice, as the tribunals will no doubt side with people who say they are stressed because of the risk of getting the virus and dying, and only a cold heartless employer would force them to put their lives in danger.
      
      Which is true, but as long as the business implements safe practices as per advice from the government, they have no legitimate reason not to return to work. My wife for example, works for one of the bigger post-harvest companies who have literally hundreds of people on-site every day, working in up to 6 different shifts. They manage their COVID responsibilities extremely well, nobody has caught it and business goes on.
      
      The other option of course, is to say that due to inability to meet customer orders, and the inevitable loss of revenue, the business unfortunately has to make a number of staff redundant. Then you go through a fair and transparent process, following all the rules, and do some housekeeping.
      
      12 0
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      May 3, 2020 10:58am
      - Manu-Rau
        
        I would use a self-selecting process: simply check their FaceBook pages, and weed out those who were most vocal in their support for Ardern or who posted stuff like “Health is more important than jobs.”
        
        As far as I am concerned, people like that are effectively volunteering for redundancy.
        
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        May 3, 2020 3:59pm
    - alloytoo
      
      All businesses will be considering a number questions to the staff equation.
      
      1. Is Joe Blogs Productive.
      2. Is Joe Blogs Productive from home.
      3. If I leave productive Joe Blogs at home and retrench unproductive Joe Blogs can I downsize my premises.
      
      Joe Blogs should be doing his damnedest to demonstrate either his productivity, high efficiency or creativity (IE his value) and if he enjoys working from home he should be telling his boss that too.
      
      I am.
      
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      May 3, 2020 4:00pm
- fisho
  
  I think you’ve answered your own question.
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:41am
- Brian McDonald
  
  No way. $460 I think it is after-tax, is not well paid. Furthermore, the payments are temporary and have about 6 weeks to run, lastly, people are being sacked or made redundant. Reasons not to come to work can’t be ‘all sorts of reasons’ which you would know if you were an employer. If your friend does exist he can find workers now.
  
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  May 3, 2020 12:02pm
  - fernglas
    
    ?
    
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    May 3, 2020 1:10pm
- All_on_Red
  
  fernglas
  The Wage Subsidy gets paid to the Employer
  Who then uses it to pay Employees.
  Iirc not turning up for work for five days is Abandonment, so they can be sacked- although there has to be attempts to get them back.
  Then no more subsidised wages for that Employee.
  
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  May 3, 2020 12:15pm
  - alloytoo
    
    Company does however need to keep track of subsidized employees and if they leave or have to terminate them should be prepared to refund the unused portion of the subsidy.
    
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    May 3, 2020 4:05pm
Happychappy

You read a lot of shit in the media from different Journalists but very seldom do you have the media making excuses for them like Stuff has done for Tova O’Brien. “Political Muckraker” Tova O’Brien :’take a step back before you have a go’.
Tova O’Brien can’t understand why she gets trolled holding the Government to account. After several paragraphs of nonsense from Paddy Gower and Tova O’Brien and being asked for a highlight of her career after bidding farewell , O’Brien texts back she had thought of a enduring memory, ” Jamie Lee Ross ” and that phenomenal press conference.
That was the biggest thing I have ever experienced politically and most memorable moment.
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May 3, 2020 8:30am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Holding the government to account? Mate, she’s dreamin’!
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:24am
- kowtow
  
  More “news” about the news.
  
  So it is true , they get off on interviewing each other and fill the page with the usual shite . Gender ,bullying , Trump/bleach , we’re sooo important and clever while no one else gets it …..
  
  Well, har fucken har , the balance sheets say other wise.
  
  Learn to code .
  
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  May 3, 2020 10:51am
Yvette

Several people yesterday, commenting on the proposed cannabis law to be voted for or against in the up-coming referendum, asked “Where is the road safety legislation to go with it?” – or work safety measures: so someone stoned is not trying to operate a circular saw, driving a car, or logging Shane’s trees.
Here apparently is some of it –

Roadside Drug Testing to be Introduced – media release 18 December 2019
Police will be given new powers to conduct random roadside oral fluid drug testing to deter, detect and prosecute drugged drivers in order to save lives, Associate Transport Minister Julie Anne Genter announced today. “Last year 95 people were killed in preventable crashes where the driver was found to have drugs in their system that could impair driving. That is an enormous and intolerable loss of life”

“The threshold for a criminal offence will be aligned with that for alcohol. This means a blood test that identifies impairing medication or drugs at or above an amount equivalent to the criminal drink driving limit (80mg of alcohol to 100ml of blood) will result in a criminal offence.
“The oral fluid devices will initially test for THC, methamphetamine, opiates, cocaine, MDMA (ecstasy), and benzodiazepines which are the most prevalent and high risk drugs and medications used by drivers in New Zealand. Police will continue to use the compulsory impairment test to screen for other impairing drugs.

“I intend to introduce a Bill to the Parliament early next year to enable oral fluid drug testing to begin in 2021,” says Julie Anne Genter. [1]

But that was 18 December 2019. Where is any further action on these measures?

From figures from the Crash Analysis System that records details of road crashes in NZ –
Drivers involved in fatal crashes
2013 drugs proven 14 – alcohol 53
2014 drugs proven 14 – alcohol 48
2015 drugs proven 27 – alcohol 66
2016 drugs proven 59 – alcohol 67
2017 drugs proven 79 – alcohol 70

So 2015 drug deaths (27) is nearly twice 2014 (14)
2016 (59) is over twice 2015 (27) and 2017 a third increase again on 2016

Random roadside oral fluid drug testing is needed now, theoretically more than alcohol, simply because the number of drugged driving deaths is greater.

So where is it in the system?
Same place as Kiwibuild, Auckland airport to CBD transport, or is Julie Anne Agenda too busy organising widening footpaths and narrowing main roads with cycleways (like the Dunedin North Road cycleway that David Clark apparently didn’t use to go mountain biking)

I will not consider voting ‘Yes’ for Little’s cannabis law unless random roadside drug testing is in place.

[1] https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/roadside-drug-testing-be-introduced
[2] https://www.aa.co.nz/about/newsroom/media-releases/safety/alarming-increase-in-drugged-driving-deaths/
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May 3, 2020 8:33am
- fernglas
  
  The problem with drug testing is that they have no standards for what is dangerous. With alcohol, a certain level can be demonstrated to impair ability, but with drugs, the most they can do is show that drugs were present when the accident occurred, not whether they were a cause. And drugs covers a wide range, from illegal to prescription, class A to C. Cannabis residue can show up days after an intoxicating level has passed. There’s a lot of work to be done.
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:46am
  - david
    
    Simple questions:
    1. Would you want the pilot of your next Air New Zealand flight to have joint in the crew briefing room just before takeoff?
    2. How would you feel about your surgeon and theatre team passing a spiff around just before they scrubbed for your heart valve or knee replacement surgery?
    Now decide on the referendum answer.
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:24am
    - fernglas
      
      If that rather stupid pair of questions is conclusive for the referendum, then I would say that neither of those things have ever happened, nor will ever happen, whether cannabis is legalised or not, so I guess the answer you are after is that I should vote for legalisation?
      
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      May 3, 2020 9:46am
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        Do a minority of pilots take drugs before flight?
        
        Yes.
        
        e.g. https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/national/more-airline-pilots-testing-positive-for-drug-use/EtEcb0AIqp9mR4SY8QuxLL/
        
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        May 3, 2020 9:58am
      - reubee
        
        FYI, The pilot in the Carterton balloon crash in 2012 that killed 11 had THC in his system. Two jump masters in the Fox Glacier parachuting plane crash 2010 on take off had THC in their system. The 1993 Franz Josef crash killing 9, one of the pilots had THC in his system.
        
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        May 3, 2020 12:09pm
      - david
        
        Those questions that you so flippantly refer to as “rather stupid” were actually meant to counter the drivel about cannabis being harmless that you obviously subscribe to.
        If you cannot think it through at a personal level then all you are doing is saying that all is well with further allowing widespread use of a performance modifying drug for recreational purposes.
        Tell that to the family of a fatal car crash victim of an impaired driver.
        
        8 1
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        May 3, 2020 12:15pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      Replace “joint/spliff” with “glass of wine/small whisky”. Legal even …..
      
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      May 3, 2020 10:03am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        And equally improbable…
        
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        May 3, 2020 10:22am
      - cmm
        
        Crazy strawman
        
        Commercial pilots are not allowed to drink just before takeoff either.
        
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        May 3, 2020 6:00pm
    - bruceavon
      
      Well, both questions are irrelevant, as is half the things thrown up opposed to the legalising, when the evidence from countries that have legalised shows that use doesn’t go up. So you have exactly the same chance of having a stoned pilot now as you will then. The same with the idea of stoned drivers. Once it is legalised the roads won’t be flooded with stoned drivers. There will be the same people driving under the influence as there are now. These arguments don’t stand up.
      
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      May 3, 2020 10:25am
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        You haven’t worked in a Colorado ER lately then.
        
        13 1
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        May 3, 2020 11:38am
    - Ed Snack
      
      But would you care if the pilot had a joint some 3 weeks earlier, but still tested positive for the residue when about to fly ?
      
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      May 3, 2020 12:19pm
  - David George
    
    There are simple impairment tests (more sophisticated versions of the old “walk a straight line”) that are suitable for both illegal/subscription substance abuse and physical impairment/incapacity. Why not just do that?
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:37am
    - fernglas
      
      Because Jacinda couldn’t touch the tip of her nose if she tried; it just keeps growing. And Winston walking a straight line?
      
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      May 3, 2020 9:48am
  - kevn
    
    @fern… How come Aussie seem to have roadside drug testing up and running? You see them in action on the Aussie road cop programmes.
    Surely we just need to mimic, rather than do ‘ a twyford’ and reinvent our own (expensive) wheel.
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:39am
    - fernglas
      
      They can detect traces of drugs, for which they test after doing eg co-ordination tests. But no actual limits. The Alcohol and Drug Federation points out that residues can remain in the body for periods from a couple of days up to a month for cannabis. It’s a bit like dying from Covid-19; did the drugs cause the driving or were they present at the time of the driving?
      
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      May 3, 2020 9:54am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        The thing with dope that is smoked is the effects come on instantly and are difficult to predict. Nobody is safe to drive after using any amount of cannabis. Conversely I am totally confident about driving after one beer.
        
        The testing is problematic. AFAIK there is no test for being under the influence of cannabis. Simply that you have used it in the last few days or weeks.
        
        Of course all this is a problem now. While cannabis is illegal, that illegality deters very few people. I don’t come across anyone who says ‘I’d really like to try cannabis but it is illegal so I won’t.’
        
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        May 3, 2020 11:09am
- Isobar
  
  Do you have the stats for injuries as well? That would be an interesting comparison.
  
  Also i wonder how many drivers were taken off the road for being caught over the limit during the same period.
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:56am
- fisho
  
  If it’s legalised these tests will be no use for marijuana. They can’t determine if you’re currently under the influence or simply partook on the weekend prior.
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:45am
  - chukar
    
    How big is the need for legalisation.
    According to Minister Little it is to remove the pressure on 300,000 regular users.
    That is just 6% of the NZ population.
    
    So the rest of the country is going to be put at risk for these present lawbreakers?
    
    I hope not.
    
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    May 3, 2020 5:42pm
TWEEDSE

It’s a sobering point that 2 people die each second of the day in the world. The majority from old age.

150,000 per day die normally.

Remind me again why we are under house arrest when being alive is the most dangerous thing out there ?
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May 3, 2020 8:34am
- MCos
  
  The big majority of NZ’s ~33,500 deaths are caused by strokes, heart disease, cancer & pneumonia.
  I don’t think anyone dies of ‘old age’.
  https://figure.nz/chart/xfyh7HZYcWqcJ1n6
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:12am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Or covid 19
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:51am
- chaos
  
  If what has happened overseas happened here and Cindy had done nothing you’d be here whinging she did nothing and blaming her for all the deaths.
  
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  May 3, 2020 10:38am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    No commentators here AFAIK suggested do nothing. My suggestion was that the borders be closed, we isolate the vulnerable, and move to Level 2, probably for several months. And rigorously track and trace.
    
    The current response regime will, over the next five years, kill hundreds more people than it “saved”. I have previously posted links to analysis that supports that conclusion. You can search for it if you are interested.
    
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    May 3, 2020 11:14am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Sensible suggestions Benedict
      
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      May 3, 2020 12:03pm
  - double d
    
    That seems a pretty standard “Cindy Defence” about now. Maybe some did suggest we did nothing, but most would agree we needed to do something and many would say we should have reacted 2 weeks earlier. The main argument is about what we did – imposing a full “Level 4 “ lockdown.
    Many would argue we should have imposed a lower level lockdown – Level 2 – earlier and managed the key risks – the elderly and those flying in from overseas (whether NZers or not) – implementing robust quarantine of ALL incoming passengers. There are some lame arguments being put forward about why this wasn’t done – most of it suggesting it would have been impossible – I would suggest leadership is having a view of what a Level 4 ravaged economy looks like and then re-visiting the quarantine of all incoming passengers and it would move from an impossibility to a necessity.
    My critique of the PM is her inability to understand the gravity of the situation despite months of warning and then going way too late and way too hard.
    Leaked polls may seem like shit and giggles today, but the financial pain NZ is about to go through will leave the coalition in tatters, as the “be kind” messages become patronising and the halo fades. I fear a bleak winter in godzone
    
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    May 3, 2020 1:17pm
    - alloytoo
      
      I would suggest effective quarantine could have been enforced if Grant had handed the hospitality industry a cheque for a billion dollars and handed the army PPE to attend the airports.
      
      A lot cheaper for everyone and it would have thrown a lifeline to the industry most under threat.
      
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      May 3, 2020 4:13pm
  - TWEEDSE
    
    The only thing Ardern does is read the autocue. She is bereft of intelligence, life experience or decisions based on imperisisum. She is, in a nutshell, dangerous to the prosperity and freedom of New Zealanders.
    
    The last person you want in a crisis.
    
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    May 3, 2020 1:27pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Ardern is basically at what we once called “weather girls”. They could read the cues and flounce about but otherwise unhireable.
      
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      May 3, 2020 4:08pm
Lee C

New Zealand! Are you suffering in an abusive relationship? Is your loved one psychologically manipulating you? Help is at hand! Read this article about ‘Gaslighting’ and if you feel you are a ‘survivor’ – seek help!

1. Gaslighters tell blatant lies with a straight face because once they tell you a huge lie, you’re not sure if anything they say is true. Keeping you unsteady and off-kilter is the Gaslighter’s goal.

2. Gaslighters deny they ever said something, even though you have proof – they out and out deny it. And the more they do this, the more you question your reality and start accepting theirs.

3. Gaslighters use what is near and dear to you as ammunition. They know how important your family is to you, so they exploit the foundation of your identity.

4. Gaslighters wear you down over time – A lie here, a lie there, a snide comment … and then it starts ramping up, so the victim never realises what’s happening.

5. Gaslighter’s Actions do not match their words. What they are saying means nothing; it is just talk. What they are doing is the issue.

6. Gaslighters throw in positive reinforcement to confuse you. Cutting you down, telling you that you don’t have value, then praising you for something you did which serves their purpose.

7. Gaslighters exploit confusion to weaken people. They need you to constantly question everything. Then we look to whatever will help us feel more stable—Oh! and that just happens to be the Gaslighter.

8. Gaslighters project. If they are a drug user or a cheater (or politicise everything, or a narcissist), they accuse you of that to distract from their own behaviour.

9. Gaslighters align people against you. They are masters at manipulation. They use people they know will stand by them no matter what—and then use these people against you.

Isolation gives the Gaslighter control.

10. Gaslighters try to convince you that your views are crazy. When you doubt your sanity, people will not believe you when you tell them about the Gaslighters. It’s a master technique.

11. According to Gaslighters, everyone else is a liar. Only they know ‘the truth’. It’s a manipulation technique to turn to the Gaslighters for the “correct” information.
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May 3, 2020 8:34am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  We have absolutely no idea what you are on about //
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:52am
  - projectman
    
    Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which a person or a group covertly sows seeds of doubt in a targeted individual, making them question their own memory, perception, or judgment, often evoking in them cognitive dissonance and other changes such as low self-esteem.
    
    Check out Wikipedia.
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:07am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Guess you missed the //
      
      13 2
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      May 3, 2020 9:23am
      - projectman
        
        Is that suppoed to mean something to the uninitiated?
        
        7 1
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        May 3, 2020 10:55am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Sometimes written /S
        
        7 1
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        May 3, 2020 11:19am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Whoooshh!
      
      11 2
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      May 3, 2020 9:27am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Knew someone years ago who nearly suffered badly from this. Married, and she began to doubt her own sanity – things missing then turning up in plain sight, odd noises and voices, all sorts of things. Then one day purely by accident caught her husband setting up a concealed tape recorder with “voices” on it.
      
      She had about a year earlier, inherited a sizeable sum, and husband was trying to get control of it by having her committed. Nearly worked, but it was a very quick and uncontested divorce in which he got nothing.
      
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      May 3, 2020 12:26pm
  - Lee C
    
    … is the correct answer, Steve…
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:29am
- kevn
  
  @Lee.. All sounds familiar, linking to the bullsh*t NZ is being fed.
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:41am
- Durden
  
  Sounds like what is being done to Trump for the past three years by the Democrats, Globalists (incl EU), left leaning Media and Hollywood.
  
  Mental abuse that Trump may have survived, but must be getting quiet tired.
  
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  May 3, 2020 11:51am
- Nightsky-one
  
  And here’s me thinking she banned everything to do with oil and gas.
  
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  May 3, 2020 12:30pm
Tasman Terror

Is digging your own grave a shovel ready project?
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May 3, 2020 8:48am
- Lee C
  
  Careful Tasman, that might be construed as ‘hateful’…
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:54am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Self-loathing count?
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:59am
- ISeeRed
  
  Yes. But you have to bring your own shovel.
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:58am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Provide a picture for Shane’s nephs because they don’t know what one is unless they have watched someone burying the stash . . .
    
    15 0
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    May 3, 2020 9:36am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Calling a spade a spade?
      
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      May 3, 2020 10:00am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        But there’s the problem…
        This Government would assure us that it had enough shovels in the country and a few months later we’d locate a bunch of hoes in Eketahuna.
        
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        May 3, 2020 10:25am
BeeJay

“The majority of Kiwis want an unrushed and considered decision before the Country moves to Alert Level 2“, so says a Horizon Research survey of 1151 respondents! While a significant % of the respondents who make up the 88% are those who support Labour, Greens and NZ First, I wonder how many KB followers would agree? Maybe no Level 2, but a Level 2.5 or something else? Doesn’t this Government have the balls to make a decision that will help get people back to work, and kickstart the economy? Oh no that’s right they don’t!
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May 3, 2020 8:52am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  88% of Kiwibloggers would prefer a rushed and ill-considered decision?
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:12am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    We’ve had plenty of time to consider a decision – far too long in fact. This thing is over, stick a fork in it. It’s done.
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:28am
  - Lee C
    
    That’s like saying 11 out of 12 enjoy pack-rape, milky.
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:29am
  - BeeJay
    
    Mike, I just think they would damned if they did and damned if they didn’t. If I had a business and it was going down the gurgler I’d want Level 1 sooner rather than later than have to accept bankruptcy and lose my home to the lenders!
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:33am
  - tavita
    
    Exactly, the answer depends on how you frame the question. But aside from that, my neighbour thinks continuing the lockdown is a good thing (he’s a teacher doing the gardening on full pay). So does my sister – she is retired with adequate savings and a pension but vulnerable age and health-wise. I think we can think of many others who might make up that 88% without getting to political or blog affiliation.
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:50am
    - Ruawai
      
      Tavita: They may start to get concerned when the Govt hasn’t received enough in GST and tax to pay their pension and teachers wages.
      
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      May 3, 2020 10:27am
    - BlueDevil
      
      Reduce pensions and state incomes 10% each week level 3 runs for kindness and solidarity with the rest of NZ. Should be no problem “as we are all in this together” and “people may die”.
      
      1 0
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      May 3, 2020 3:15pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Like not closing the borders?
    
    15 0
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    May 3, 2020 10:01am
- Level 3.9 Prisoner in Cindy's Kindy
  
  They are welcome to self-isolate.
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:18am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Exactly
    
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    May 3, 2020 12:05pm
- Prince
  
  So Horizon Research asked people if they want an unrushed and considered decision before moving to Ardern 2.
  
  And 12% said, “Nah”.
  Amazing.
  
  13 1
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  May 3, 2020 9:30am
- Albert_Ross
  
  What exactly was the question? Because if it was “do you want an unrushed and considered decision” then that is a question to which it is pretty much impossible to answer with a no, as mike shows; and so the answers are completely uninformative and worthless.
  
  Ask instead, do you think the Government should by now have been able to collect and assess as much information as it needs to make an unrushed and considered decision, and you might start to get towards what is actually at issue here.
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:41am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Albert asks questions- again
    
    5 3
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    May 3, 2020 11:50am
  - Gazza the Giant
    
    I took part in that Horizon poll , I received states and a break down of those poll yesterday , I was 1 of the 13% , its nuts because if you scroll down to the answer ant the graph , it adds up to 132.5% its bullshit , and this is how they are lying to the people
    https://www.horizonpoll.co.nz/page/577/new-zealand
    
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    May 3, 2020 7:24pm
- Rich Prick
  
  Public servants are enjoying their additional six weeks of annual leave, they’re not at all keen on it ending.
  
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  May 3, 2020 10:49am
- emmess
  
  The majority of Kiwis want an unrushed and considered decision
  
  What a stupid question.
  Who would want a rushed and unconsidered decision? Even though that is what we go moving into lockdown
  It the response that should be polled
  
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  May 3, 2020 11:03am
- Dave Mann
  
  As a ~~widely experienced epidemiologist with a post-doctoral qualification in viral medicine~~ reasonably intelligent educated bloke, I can tell you exactly what will happen…..
  
  About 2 weeks after level 2 (2.5?) goes into effect there will be a rapidly escalating spike in sickness due to two main factors:
  
  a) The cold weather aka the ‘flu season’ and
  
  b) Radically decreased immunity (to viruses generally) caused by locking everybody down, isolating them from society and causing them hugely increased emotional, financial and lifestyle stress.
  
  The resulting politically motivated panic will overwhelm the medical system – which has itself been virtually decapitated by incompetent governmental interference since this fracas started. Empty hospitals will rapidly fill up at an alarming rate.
  
  Deaths and hospitalisations due to all kinds of causes will be falsely attributed to Covid-19 and the Marxist ‘government’ will sieze total control – instituting martial law and the suspension of ALL civil rights. Obviously there will be no election in September and the National Party won’t even utter a squeak.
  
  The Maoris also will see this as a wonderful opportunity to overthrow ‘colonialist oppression’ and New Zealand will descend into a state of civil war by around February 2021 once the ordinary kiwi citizens finally wake from their slumber.
  
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  May 3, 2020 12:04pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Do they know what an economy is?
  
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  May 3, 2020 4:10pm
- alloytoo
  
  I guess those surveyors weren’t around for the road rage outside KFC on Tuesday.
  
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  May 3, 2020 4:18pm
I remember when

September 2016
Greenpeace were behind 4000 emails rejecting the Ruataniwha dam.
The emails were sent to Regional Councillors .
In some cases in made their notification files worthless.
“Your email is not working, and you are unable to do any other work because you are trying to sort the thing out.”
Ms Toop said Greenpeace had done nothing wrong. They were emails from individuals.
Incidentally, I wonder how many people may have liked to have that vote again this year.
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May 3, 2020 8:58am
- Albert_Ross
  
  I am quite unable to understand your third full sentence (“In some cases …”) and therefore have no idea what your point is.
  
  What made whose notification files worthless, how and so what?
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:45am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Lol
    
    6 1
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    May 3, 2020 11:50am
    - niggly
      
      Heh!
      
      6 0
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      May 3, 2020 12:26pm
JibberJabber

So under Soviet Cindys` Claytons Pandemic and illegal lockdown the word on the street is suicides have rocketed to from 13 to 61 per week.
Pending confirmation of course, but who could trust anything this government says?
https://twitter.com/RealNZParty/status/1256480741476585472

Go to
https://coronialservices.justice.govt.nz/suicide/annual
surprise, surprise , 404 page not found.
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May 3, 2020 8:58am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Your Twitter sources is ‘a cop told me’. Anecdata.
  Suicide statistics are released periodically. It is far to soon to be able to judge changing death rates, for any causes, due to the lock-down restrictions.
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:16am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Including from COVID-19?
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:30am
  - kowtow
    
    A bit like , ‘a cop told me that racist roadblocks were not illegal’ .
    
    23 3
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    May 3, 2020 9:53am
  - greenfinger
    
    Yeah, right. The person who committed suicide left a note to say it was the lockdown that broke the camel’s back. Well done , MikenMildAgain. Such a genius, let the coroner decide.
    
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    May 3, 2020 8:32pm
  - GJM
    
    There is at least 1. A local shopkeeper went into liquidation recently, and hung himself in the weekend. The lockdown destroyed his business. I have anecdotally heard of others, but this was more first hand
    
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    May 12, 2020 5:21pm
- old skool reactionary
  
  Your last link is cut short:
  
  https://coronialservices.justice.govt.nz/suicide/annual-suicide-statistics-since-2011/
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:26am
- Max Howler
  
  and the numbers get released August. Just in time for the election? or somehow gets delayed?
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:43am
- chaos
  
  Suicides could be up, but someone on twitter isn’t a source. Shit. Twitter is about as reliable as the main stream media
  
  16 3
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  May 3, 2020 10:34am
- Pete George
  
  Mental Health Foundation: There Is No Evidence New Zealand’s Suicide Rates Have Increased Over Lockdown
  
  The Mental Health Foundation is deeply disappointed to see a rumour circulating that there has been a dramatic increase in suicides in New Zealand over the lockdown period.
  
  “There is absolutely no truth to this rumour,” MHF chief executive Shaun Robinson says. “It is totally irresponsible and untrue.”
  
  https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/GE2005/S00007/there-is-no-evidence-new-zealands-suicide-rates-have-increased-over-lockdown.htm
  
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  May 3, 2020 12:02pm
  - MCos
    
    Is the Mental Health Foundation more reliable than some anonymous random policeman?
    
    Probably not if it doesn’t suit your political agenda.
    
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    May 3, 2020 1:16pm
  - JibberJabber
    
    Of course, in Media Lefty Land a rumour isn`t confirmed until there is a denial.
    Journalism 101.
    
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    May 3, 2020 3:06pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Pre-suicide states may have been induced.
    
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    May 3, 2020 4:12pm
  - Manu-Rau
    
    Is the Mental health Foundation funded by the government? If so, and public statements they make are as tainted as……well, statements made by the Police, for example.
    
    Zero credibility. Sorry.
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:20pm
- Martin Williams
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Disgraceful behaviour. Didn’t stop Judith Collins retweeting though. Shows what a bag of poison she is.
  
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  May 3, 2020 12:47pm
  - notrotsky
    
    Have you given up using your Muttonbird pseudonym ?
    
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    May 3, 2020 1:29pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I suppose you think that Dr Sundborn, Senior Lecturer in Pacific Health, shouldn’t have posted what he had just learnt about suicides in one region:
    
    In a post to the Covid Plan B website, Sundborn says one piece of information from inside a District Health Board has heightened fears that suicides may have increased.
    
    “A person in a top level DHB position has told us that the number of suicides in that region has risen, although the information is unobtainable under current rules empowering CEOs.
    https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/GE2004/S00176/suicides-and-other-costs-from-lockdown.htm
    
    While these are anecdotes, our team has received e-mails from District Health Board members who state that suicides have increased during the lockdown. As Treasury forecasts increasing unemployment of up to 26%, this is not unexpected, since evidence shows that suicide risk triples in frequency during similar circumstances.
    http://www.covidplanb.co.nz/our-posts/counting-the-hidden-costs-of-staying-home-to-save-lives/
    
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    May 3, 2020 2:42pm
  - Isobar
    
    Its very disappointing for her to want it to be true for political reasons. It’s just a shame MP’s from all sides haven’t really cared (done anything) about Suicide rates before this all happened, now all of a sudden they are showing an interest, but only because they want it to be higher. Sickening.
    
    There’s an interesting article on this topic from Ars https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/04/recessions-dont-lead-to-an-overall-increase-in-deaths/
    
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    May 3, 2020 4:25pm
I remember when

Watched BBC News programme yesterday on Covid-19 flights/holidays.
Lots of people trying to get their money back.
UK, US and EU law all say they must be given their money back in these circumstances.
At no time was the ‘elephant in the room’ mentioned. Is the money available and how much will there be.
Will there be anyone left to sue.
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May 3, 2020 9:03am
Poppa

What are the odds on Cindy extending this lockdown?

Considering the decision is apparently Monday, although I believe it has already been made, My bet is another week, or least a few days

In some ways I hope she does, that will get a few standing on their hind legs
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May 3, 2020 9:06am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  She is pushing New Zealand workers to see how far she can go before they revolt. It’s all about control – a socialist experiment. The more control she has, the more she wants
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:49am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Only 12 years ago, Jacinda in action. Mad as.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rsxFaq6Ig
  
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  May 3, 2020 10:01am
  - Ruawai
    
    She is like a preacher who gets drunk on power and preaching.
    
    19 1
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    May 3, 2020 10:23am
    - Dougal10
      
      Mormon
      
      9 2
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      May 3, 2020 1:03pm
- chaos
  
  The decision is in a weeks time. Two weeks level 3 before they decide.
  
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  May 3, 2020 10:32am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  This week Cabinet looks at how things will run in Level 2 …
  On Mon 11th May The PM will tell us when we are to come out of Level 3….
  
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  May 3, 2020 10:50am
  - donny
    
    I’d we come out. I personally think we are stuck here till a vaccine. If a vaccine is even possible.
    
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    May 3, 2020 2:30pm
JibberJabber

Will we see an end to the utter incompetence of this government or get another 3 years of this unmitigated disaster in Sept?
https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/104814/jenée tibshraeny-what-was-worse-parliament-mistakenly-passing-law-enabling-taxpayers

The version that actually passed was one that additionally included clauses giving the Inland Revenue Department (IRD) the authority to issue small businesses loans on behalf of the Crown.
The crazy thing is, MPs didn’t know what they had just rubber-stamped until I reported it on Thursday afternoon.
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May 3, 2020 9:15am
- Rachael Membery
  
  Seymour and the Nats took the govt at their word what was in the bill. How is that not incompetency too?
  
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  May 3, 2020 10:09am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Because it was a late change from the version they were sent to review. They don’t actually sit in the house and read the paperwork line by line before voting, it is read before and normally reviewed for at least 2 days in committee.
    
    The govn can’t expect any more support for legislation under urgency without select committee now.
    
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    May 3, 2020 10:59am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The Bills include Explanatory Notes. Small omissions however…
    
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    May 3, 2020 4:15pm
KevO'Brien

NZ has been scared too–people are adjusting to being at home not at work. The re-start is in jeopardy:
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/05/02/blitz-spirit-hardly-most-britons-still-too-scared-to-leave-home/
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May 3, 2020 9:16am
lastmanstanding

Some humble predictions

1. Trump will win the election. Biden will be his biggest asset. The combination of the allegations against Biden, his poor performance in the debates and the electorate looking to stick with what they know in times of crisis will do it.

2. The Coalition of Morons will win our elections. the fairy dust wont have worn of Cindy. She will still be seen as the saviour of hundreds of thousands.

3. Whoever wins the election will be out of office in 2023 for at least 3 terms. They will bear the brunt of the economic and social carnage. They will have to make some very unpopular decisions over the next 3 years. The international lenders will demand this.

4. Australia will recover much quicker than NZ. Their peak unemployment will be half of ours as will their decline in GDP.
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May 3, 2020 9:21am
- Jules99
  
  I agree Trump will win, but I don’t think Biden will last that long. They’ll probably have to resurrect a past candidate to run at the last minute. Warren probably.
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:33am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Hillary will make her move soon. She is desperate
    
    16 3
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    May 3, 2020 9:51am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    Michelle Obama for VP!!
    
    8 5
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    May 3, 2020 10:21am
    - Ed Snack
      
      She’s said (through spokespersons) that she’s not interested, but she might be the Democrats best hope. Name recognition alone would get her a long way.
      
      But she wouldn’t be VP except in name, Joe isn’t capable of serving now and that will be even more Obvious by November.
      
      I suspect that he’ll bow out at the convention, he’s done what the party required in taking out Bernie. The real question is who do they chose instead.
      
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      May 3, 2020 12:36pm
      - Odakyu-sen
        
        Hillary!!!!
        
        1 0
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        May 3, 2020 4:30pm
- old skool reactionary
  
  You are assuming we won’t be living in a Mad Max: Fury Road movie in a couple of years.
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:34am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    oldskool: I don’t think so. We have too much water’n’food, nowhere near enough ammo’n’guns to keep a bullet farm working, and most of all, no-one with anywhere near the necessary charisma to be Immortan Joe…
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:53am
- Poppa
  
  Totally agree with your assumptions there Man
  
  Actually at this point in time I just hope I have a job at the end of this circus
  
  At least I have no debt & money in the bank, but I will be their target when they are looking to fill in their hole of incompetence
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:49am
- Chris Morgan
  
  Re #2, I agree but predict JA will step down soon after and take a role at the UN thus forever becoming the saviour of the world.
  
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  May 3, 2020 10:18am
- chaos
  
  Biden will be stood down, Hillary will stand in his place
  
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  May 3, 2020 10:29am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Not Hillary
    
    8 1
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    May 3, 2020 11:51am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I’m still amazed we can agree on one thing!
      
      4 7
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      May 3, 2020 12:22pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Two
        I too, am concerned about Chinese financial interest in our politics.
        
        7 0
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        May 3, 2020 2:54pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Yikes Red, you and I agree on something.
        
        2 0
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        May 3, 2020 4:15pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        VM
        We could agree on more
        You just need better sources- especially on Flynn
        
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        May 3, 2020 8:13pm
- bc
  
  I agree with all of your predictions LMS.
  I would add that Jacinda will not make it till 2023. With three years of tough times coming up, the Labour-Greens coalition will not not be able to cope with managing the country and their approval ratings will plummet. Jacinda will see the writing on the wall and bail.
  
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  May 3, 2020 11:32am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Only if we don’t let Ardern get total control. I won’t be surprised that by July the picture will be sufficiently bleak the COL won’t want to own it. They will want to blame it all on the Nats for their unkind thoughts towards them.
    
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    May 3, 2020 4:20pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Coming to a place near you soon:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-economy/venezuela-sets-new-price-controls-with-eggs-costing-more-than-a-months-wages-idUSKBN22D41S?fbclid=IwAR3Sv6GQbxXAkkJp7KiHSFie7kCMqcaMhtxwmy-DISRiVeldtPthfvtBGfM
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May 3, 2020 9:24am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  We are different to Venezuela, everybody already has toilet paper!
  
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  May 3, 2020 9:41am
- Classic Liberal
  
  They put all their eggs in one basket (oil).
  
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  May 3, 2020 2:27pm
john1234

A good read on TDB, of all places:

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2020/05/03/despicable-abuse-of-police-power-while-nz-is-distracted-by-pandemic/

The police have had a taste of fascism under Covid-19, and they like it.
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May 3, 2020 9:28am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  I am pleased I had sanatiser available after visiting . . .
  
  13 1
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  May 3, 2020 9:46am
- kiwiracer
  
  Unbelievable, what a wasteful use of police resources, I wonder which idiot in Police HQ dreamt this action up.
  
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  May 3, 2020 10:57am
  - Ruawai
    
    Almost as wasteful as stationing police on all illegal road blocks when they could be spending time on crime. Close them down before there are too many to control.
    
    15 0
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    May 3, 2020 12:03pm
- emmess
  
  It’s worth the click just to see the image.
  
  6 0
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  May 3, 2020 11:11am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Which Martin / Martyn did you see?
    
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    May 3, 2020 4:13pm
I remember when

Covid-19 is a war!
Socialism grows during every war. In WW1 there was the Russian Revolution and considerable dispute among the workers and the upper classes.
WW2 again increased the will of the working class to improve their working condition and control of their own destiny.
The Korea War was against communism.
The Vietnam War become a battle against war by the ordinary citizen.
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May 3, 2020 9:29am
- kowtow
  
  ‘The Vietnam War become a battle against war by the ordinary citizen’
  
  According to the left wing media in the west perhaps .
  
  Meanwhile in Vietnam and the rest of Indo China , it was a war of aggression by a small self appointed group of communists seeking to oppress ordinary folk to the wiles of Marxism.
  
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  May 3, 2020 11:17am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Rubbish. It was a war of national liberation, first against the French and then against the Americans. Communism happened to provide a motivating and unifying force those wars.
    
    5 13
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    May 3, 2020 12:24pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Will America come to our aid?
    
    3 1
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    May 3, 2020 12:58pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Ask the Vietnamese (or Afghanis or Iraqis) how America coming to their aid worked out for them.
      
      3 9
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      May 3, 2020 2:37pm
Ruawai

To help the current economic problems, return to business as usual so businesses can start making money, generating GST and paying taxes, stop paying out Government money to everyone and send home all foreigners on working visas to give NZers jobs, there is 300,000 temporary work visas..
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May 3, 2020 10:18am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Hmmm, not as simple as that. Plenty of immigrants doing high skill jobs that none of Shane’s nephs could do.
  
  Perhaps if other countries took a similar approach & started kicking Kiwis out then we could look at a ‘one in, one out’ model.
  
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  May 3, 2020 11:47am
surfing

Happy covid-19 morning to all 🙂
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May 3, 2020 10:39am
Maggie Pie

Just got back from getting a few essentials at the local NW. Ever since they demolished their under-cover car park, its a real pain shopping there when it’s wet and windy. Particularly so as they don’t allow customers to take their own bags in anymore. You have to bring the trolley out and load each item into the SUV yourself!

Last time i was there, the senior trolley guy stopped me because he saw i had some single-use plastic bags hanging out of my jacket pocket. I tried to explain that we had tens of thousand of them stored at home, but he wasn’t having a bar of it (retard). Anyway, the good thing is, they do supply those disposable blue rubber gloves at the door, and i always manage to grab a big handful. Must have about 500 by now, they are sooo handy for say doing dishes, polishing the silverware, picking up dog poo, etc.

However my real concern is, as i was just driving home back up the Avenue, I noticed a resident had been out and tied some brightly colored kids balloons to their letterbox. Now we all know what that means! Should i be doing my ‘civic duty’ and calling the Police 105 Hotline with a breach report? 🙁
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May 3, 2020 10:55am
- Rachael Membery
  
  That they should have used gloves instead?
  
  11 0
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  May 3, 2020 11:21am
- chaos
  
  Perhaps the balloons are a sign to the neighbours fling that the wife has gone shopping quick hurry around.
  
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  May 3, 2020 11:37am
- Loddenthinks
  
  What did the trolley guy say to you about the “single use” plastic bags (which you were clearly using again)?
  
  And what did you tell him?
  
  7 0
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  May 3, 2020 12:18pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Oh come on Lodds! Did you not read the second para? 😀
    
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    May 3, 2020 1:12pm
Happychappy

David Parker thinks he can bypass Parliament and just rip up the RMA to to build house and roads because of CORID-19, whilst I am against the RMA because Maori and the Greens use it to get what they and stop others from doing what they don’t want this is a dangerous President 5 months out from a Election.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/05/coronavirus-shovel-ready-projects-to-bypass-rma-in-effort-to-reboot-economy.html
Labour has always opposed other Parties wanting to gut the RMA and now they want to use it to be re-elected in September 2020.
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May 3, 2020 11:09am
- Dougal10
  
  It will be ok because parker is the smartest person to ever live didn’t you know.
  
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  May 3, 2020 1:11pm
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Parker, as in wooden top Lady Penelope driver or is there someone else of note with that name currently circulating?
    
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    May 3, 2020 4:16pm
fernglas

I have a question on behalf of those who have had this virus and recovered, whether they were symptomatic or not. Why should they be subject to these rules when it is more than likely that they cannot be reinfected or pass the virus on?
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May 3, 2020 11:19am
- chaos
  
  people who have had the virus have got it again, there have even been a few around the world that got it, recovered, got it again and it killed them.
  
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  May 3, 2020 11:35am
  - All_on_Red
    
    I call bullshit on this one
    In South Korea they discovered that remnants of the Virus were causing False Positives in those who had recovered.
    
    21 3
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    May 3, 2020 11:54am
  - MrTips
    
    Wrong chaos. Subsequent tests have shown either inactive virus or highlighted previous false negative tests.
    
    20 1
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    May 3, 2020 12:07pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Citation needed. The latest research on this confirms quite the opposite regarding reinfection.
    
    I’ll give you this though: 100% of people who recover from Covid-19 will die one day. From something. At some stage. And statistically a few will do so only days or weeks after they recover.
    
    16 3
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    May 3, 2020 12:09pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      Another thought. If you get the virus and get over it, you have become immune. Otherwise you wouldn’t be over it. We just don’t know how long it lasts …
      
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      May 12, 2020 5:31pm
- MCos
  
  As a percentage of the population not many people have the opportunity to demonstrate they have recovered from the virus, whether symptomatic or not.
  Then they would need some sort of ID to present if required, or maybe a searchable database available to the Stasi.
  By the time it’s all set up it might transpire that there’s a time limit on the protection achieved by having had the virus.
  Those flu jabs everyone is rushing to obtain at present, for example, only give about six months protection.
  
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  May 3, 2020 11:58am
  - All_on_Red
    
    ‘it might transpire that there’s a time limit on the protection achieved by having had the virus.’
    
    There’s no evidence of people catching it twice.
    
    11 2
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    May 3, 2020 12:19pm
    - MCos
      
      Not much time has passed by yet. Six months ago the virus was almost unheard of.
      
      2 0
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      May 3, 2020 5:22pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        And six months later no one has caught it twice.
        Data is coming out that people actually had it last year
        
        1 0
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        May 3, 2020 8:11pm
Rachael Membery

precedent? Jacinda isn’t President …yet.
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May 3, 2020 11:24am
oldfella

Interesting Five Eyes (of which we’re one) intelligence report slamming China for the way it covered up the virus.
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/05/02/intelligence-report-details-how-china-covered-up-coronavirus-outbreak/
As the leader of a Five Eyes country, will our own international darling, Cindy Wonderwoman, weigh in and be opening critical of China? Anyone taking bets on this?
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May 3, 2020 11:50am
- oldfella
  
  I see some downticking ‘Adern Adorers Brigade’ camp followers are on the prowl today. Greetings ‘fellas, and fellessers’ (as the great Billy T. used to say.)
  
  14 5
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  May 3, 2020 12:35pm
  - Dougal10
    
    Fraser house must have an overtime budget that needs used up.
    
    14 2
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    May 3, 2020 1:16pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Pay will be available via the subsidy.
      
      5 0
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      May 3, 2020 4:27pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      NZ on air?
      
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      May 3, 2020 9:35pm
- niggly
  
  Easy, Cindy won’t be critical and will play down everything, leaving Winston to be critical and play up everything!
  
  Meanwhile everyone else is confused about the mixed messages.
  
  When the MSM finally dare to ask Cindy for clarification, she will smile and take patsy questions from her friendly reporters and talk and talk … about nothing really. But MSM happy with positive soundbite and award winning photograph of her – but everyone else are still confused and gives up!
  
  Cindy and Winston smirk off camera – mission accomplished for another day!
  
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  May 3, 2020 1:16pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  No politician, Labour or National, would dare criticise China.
  
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  May 3, 2020 2:35pm
- Michael NZ
  
  Old fella
  
  I read that one too and I wondered:
  What reports did she (jacinda) get in Dec/Jan/Feb from Five Eyes and Taiwan on developments.
  They knew it was Human 2 Human transmission in Dec!
  
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  May 3, 2020 4:44pm
greenfinger

Ardern says mass gathering is not allowed during level 3 but she is endorsing possibly the biggest mass gathering across NZ, commanding kids to return to school. What contradiction! You know she has no idea and is making up the rules and logic as she goes. She is compounding her errors one after another. The economic and social impact of her missteps on this country may not be apparent in the next two months but it will be obvious in the next two years when we compare ourselves to the outcome in Australia, whether you consider the economic cost per live saved, or the social cost per live saved. The compounding effect of this lock down in NZ will be enormous. Unfortunately, Robertson and his advisors can’t see beyond his nose! Even after being handed the keys to the best possible economy this country has seen in ten years, this government hasn’t been able to deliver on Kiwibuild or eradicate child poverty (short of getting Bloomfield to redefine this one in his medical terms!). What chance do we now have in relying on this lot to dig us out of this mess! So smile all you want, Jacinda, for tomorrow will be worse! Bring back Key, I say!
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May 3, 2020 12:02pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  I’m no fan of Jacinda but she hasn’t said that at all. There are more than enough examples of lies and obfuscation (for example, the flu vaccine numbers which turned out to be wrong, less than a day after she refuted any criticism), without making stuff up.
  
  I agree with the rest of your comment.
  
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  May 3, 2020 12:21pm
  - greenfinger
    
    Isn’t it implied in her decision to reopen school? Judge her by her actions, not what she says! That’s how the court deals with murderers who say they didn’t mean to murder.
    
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    May 3, 2020 1:08pm
MrTips

Thom Meunier from Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute, a heavy hitter place in things nautical and relations, has dared to suggest that lockdowns achieved little to nothing on Europes mortality.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20078717v1

Woods Hole is a world renown institute. Meunier looks to have the chops for mathematical modelling.

Is he right? It’s a question worth proving or refuting.
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May 3, 2020 12:10pm
- All_on_Red
  
  There is an argument that there will be little differences in the eventual TOTAL mortality between those Countries who locked down and those who didn’t.
  Whilst one might have a flatter curve compared to the other, which has a steeper curve, the total of deaths might actually be much the same when the Virus ends its cycle on both ways.
  The spanner in the works being (like in Italy) where Hospitals couldn’t cope and there may be many who could have lived with better resources for treating so many.
  I think it’s a bit early to see if this is correct but if it is it has implications for what we do next.
  It may be that rather than trying to totally isolate our Country (which won’t work) we should progressively allow most of us to catch the Virus and let our immune systems do their job.
  
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  May 3, 2020 12:31pm
  - MrTips
    
    I think an important factor in all of this will be, like COVID patients, what the pre-existing conditions of national health systems were prior to these infectious waves hitting. Italy was already running at ICU capacity and therefore was destined to fail. Same with New York. Germany was better equipped on a daily basis.
    
    Honest analyses will include this.
    
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    May 3, 2020 12:37pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      I agree with Mr. Tips about the analyses. Whilst largely agreeing with the status quo, looking at how South Korea was prepared for example, and we were not nearly as much, is imperative.
      I know that CCU’s were being grunted up even before the levels were announced. I had no idea about the patient level being dropped which was a good idea.
      There were certainly shortages of equipment and probably a lot of strategy on the hoof, a sound one though with primary input by epidemiologists. A lot to be learned and changed through the process, however. I’m sure I heard there was to be a Royal Commission but from continuous comments here I may be mistaken.
      
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      May 3, 2020 5:45pm
  - barnacle bill
    
    Hi Red,
    
    As an older person, even though I am fit and healthy, I would far prefer not to take a chance on that.
    Thank you
    
    Lots of older people do not have good immune systems, so would be at huge risk in catching the Virus.
    
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    May 3, 2020 1:13pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Totally understand Bill.
      It would be a good idea for people like yourself to isolate until we achieve Herd Immunity and/or a vaccine arrives.
      That would be sensible- and expected if that was the strategy.
      I think Herd Immunity comes at around 60%?
      Others might know more about that.
      
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      May 3, 2020 2:59pm
      - barnacle bill
        
        Hell Red, we are all Bubbled over.
        
        Been over six weeks now since we went off our own property.
        My Wife has high blood pressure and will not take the risk, so Bubble on we will.
        
        I will need to read the vehicle manual soon to re learn how to drive it..
        Thanks.
        
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        May 3, 2020 3:34pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Good to hear you’re safe Bill
        
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        May 3, 2020 5:41pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      You shouldn’t have to take the chance Bill and shouldn’t be asked to. I don’t believe it was what our soldiers fought for. They didn’t go away to face death selectively in who they were fighting for, it was for everyone at home.
      Some people try to convert this argument that agreeing to lock down is cowardly and surrender of rights but that isn’t how a majority see it according to polls. It also shouldn’t be about who can be judged as expendable.
      We don’t know what this virus can or will do it yet as it continues to mutate. But we do know what a whole family is and it’s not judged by age.
      
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      May 3, 2020 4:13pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Wooosh as Brian completely misunderstands that we can’t all hide for 18 months while we wait for a vaccine.
        The economic destruction will kill more.
        That’s a fact.
        Even my late father who lost an arm in the War and was a German prisoner when they cut it off would understand that. And who lived through the Spanish Flu and all the others viruses btw.
        Those who are vulnerable should stay isolated and secure. You’re welcome to do the same Brian.
        Maybe study some science when you do.
        
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        May 3, 2020 4:54pm
      - Brian McDonald
        
        Who said anything about 18 months? I’m already back at work and certainly not hiding. never have. I’m not ashamed of respecting the elderly or their concerns, makes for a stronger and more inclusive society.
        
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        May 3, 2020 5:32pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Great Brian
        Then ALL of us should be allowed to go back to work too. Good to see you agree we can now.
        As I said, if anyone doesn’t feel safe they should stay home. Until we get Herd Immunity or a Vaccine.
        
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        May 3, 2020 5:44pm
      - Brian McDonald
        
        We are under restrictions, it’s not an easy restart for us Red as it will not be for others with a number of moving parts. Many businesses have restricted hours as they wind into it. A lot of contractors with outdoor work they wanted to finish before Winter have walked into one, heaps of detail like that – unanticipated damage from rain and it goes on. I appreciate the walk before running, want to get it right.
        This has been the last thing any business would want.
        
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        May 3, 2020 6:00pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Yes Brian
        So remove the restrictions and let us build our businesses again.
        The longer this goes on, the more people will die from the economic devastation
        Already people who need operations are having their lives put in danger during this.
        What about them?
        Don’t you care.
        Btw don’t ever patronise us all again by presuming you know what our Soldiers wanted.
        
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        May 3, 2020 6:07pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    I agree. Catching the virus isn’t a binary proposition. Having weeks of low viral load exposure would be better for >99% of the population than would a couple of hours on the NYC metro. Instead of the 1% being comprehensively protected, we’re doing that with 100% of the population thereby ensuring a majority of us have little opportunity to develop natural immunity.
    
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    May 3, 2020 2:16pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  There are people with skill in getting info out of numbers. Some scientists actually find the statistical investigations and testing models useful as guides. Others abuse them as we see.
  
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  May 3, 2020 4:31pm
oldfella

Goodness, how did this slip past the Stuffed gatekeepers? A pro-Bridges article. Yes, believe it or not. Stuffed will have to tighted its defenses to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/121362657/simon-bridges-qualified-to-tear-down-most-popular-prime-minister-in-a-generation
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May 3, 2020 12:37pm
- gorse
  
  She is not the most popular PM, John Key polled 75% in a proper poll during the earthquakes, not the 65% she got in a dodgy poll.
  
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  May 3, 2020 1:30pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  I thought here we go to some economics, yes! – but instead, not a single idea, a bit of tough talk about leadership and who is apparently being treacherous, and that were it. His predictions about businesses that took the wage subsidy are merely that, and some gossip about a director who cashed out. If true there could be a problem with that and should be. His comments couldn’t easily be taken as ante SMEs.
  Yeah sure for another John Key or Bill English but there is no one evident though. Goldsmith looks dour and not well, Bridges just seems to repeat himself which may be the result of his diction and the reaction that causes. I know Amy Adams is leaving but she certainly would have been in the mix, popular with the farming community so maybe she should be asked to reconsider. I’ve heard the comment that National needs a woman leader, maybe they do.
  Whoever wins the next election whether if be the Col (if there is one) or National needs to be pushed by a forceful and adaptable opposition with ideas that we should be hearing about now.
  I’m starting to like Robertson he’s working to a longer-term plan like Bill English did.
  The best summary I’ve heard about the possible future is Peter Gluckman. He said among other things that we need less violence but didn’t spell it out though. I’d say from his report 2 years ago partially into gangs, their development in the 60s through ‘boy’s homes’ I think he was also referring to the difficulties the vets had after WW2 when domestic violence was common but ignored. He was also hinting (I think about grievances) at sorting out long term problems so that the future is free of them as much as possible.
  If National has got someone to bring out do so now, also kick some timid butt in the party leadership to the sidelines because they can’t follow the mood in the country.
  ANZ has geared up for freight, things are moving but are the Nats? It doesn’t look like it. Shake a leg National, give up on the negative politics and criticism.
  
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  May 3, 2020 5:07pm
  - Gazza the Giant
    
    Get over the negative politics bullshit , why do people say that FFS , we are in the worst state in my 58 years on this earth , how the hell could you not be negative
    
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    May 4, 2020 12:02am
curry4me

https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking-trump-considering-bringing-michael-flynn-back-into-administration
President Trump says he might bring General Flynn back into the administration in light of new developments.
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May 3, 2020 12:40pm
- virtualmark
  
  This is a good summary of the recent developments with Flynn … https://www.lawfareblog.com/flynn-redux-what-those-fbi-documents-really-show
  
  Look, if a policeman comes to interview you, and they warn you that lying to them is a crime, and then you lie to them … what do you expect?
  
  And if you really believe “But that’s entrapment!” then I will say there’s a lot of drug dealers, murderers and other crims who heartily agree with you. But that might not be the sort of people you want to be tagged with.
  
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  May 3, 2020 4:13pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    They never warned Flynn not to lie. He never knew why they were there (Source Comey)
    The FBI have admitted Flynn didn’t lie
    They already knew that what he said to Kisyliak was harmle.
    The people who lied were Page and Strozyk who altered the 302’s so they could continue to threaten Flynns son and get Flynn to plea to a crime he didn’t commit.
    The evidence of this is in front of Judge Sullivan right now.
    
    You’re the liar. I really hope you get falsely accused sometime. It would be poetic.
    
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    May 3, 2020 8:05pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Hahahahaha
    Your article is written by Benjamin Wittes!!!!
    No wonder you know nothing.
    
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    May 3, 2020 8:07pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRB0naCRlGE
UK-US trade talks are on. They could start on Wednesday.
Agriculture, and food standards could be awkward.
Taxing of tech giants. No Brexit etension.
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May 3, 2020 12:41pm
oldfella

Interesting to see how quickly the lefties in the US entertainment industry, and their MSM cronies, turned against one of their own (and a ‘gay woman’ to boot) once she not only came ‘out’ as a friend of former President George W. Bush, but said she actually liked the man. Off With Her Head!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=12329170
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May 3, 2020 12:42pm
oldfella

THE ECONOMY IS SO BAD…
My neighbor got a pre-declined credit card in the mail.
CEO’s are now playing miniature golf.
Exxon-Mobil laid off 28 Congressmen.
I saw a Mormon with only one wife.
McDonald’s is selling the 1/4 ouncer.
Angelina Jolie adopted a child from America.
Parents in Beverly Hills fired their nannies and learned their children’s names.
A truckload of Americans was caught sneaking into Mexico.
A picture is now only worth 200 words.
When Bill and Hillary travel together, they now have to share a room.
My friend was so depressed thinking about the economy, wars, jobs, Social Security, retirement funds, etc., he called a Suicide Hotline. He was connected to a call center in Pakistan. When he told them he was suicidal, they asked if he could drive a truck.
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May 3, 2020 12:44pm
Poppa

Dear Cindy

Can you please explain clearly what level 2 rules will be?

Probably still working that out I guess?

Cheers Poppa
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May 3, 2020 12:53pm
- greenfinger
  
  Dear Poppa,
  
  What a great question. I will be sure to let you know (and deliver it with a smile) what once I figure that out.
  
  Your favourite Prime Minister,
  Cindy
  
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  May 3, 2020 2:28pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    So Bloomfield is saying that Level 3 might have to be extended because of all the idiots having parties etc.
    Here’s an idea: Lock the offenders up in quarantine for a month and let the rest of us have our lives back.
    
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    May 3, 2020 4:34pm
    - wilderbeast
      
      You forgot we’ve got a patsy Labour Party police commissioner.
      
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      May 3, 2020 7:04pm
- JibberJabber
  
  Hope you wrote that in Red Crayon Poppa, if you wanted to be taken seriously.
  
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  May 3, 2020 3:12pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Dear Poppa
  We’ve got a nice surprise for you called Level 2.5, it’s a halfway house for those struggling to work out the rules that we keep changing. It’ll be such fun, don’t forget your toothbrush.
  Yours
  J
  
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  May 3, 2020 5:19pm
- wilderbeast
  
  I don’t think we’ve got Level 3 nailed yet?
  
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  May 3, 2020 7:05pm
- Gazza the Giant
  
  Yes , its not too much of a hard question , but as usual , I have people working on that , end of answer
  
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  May 3, 2020 11:57pm
Swifty

Wellington/Wairarapa history – a good doco on the Rimutaka Railway:

https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/rimutaka-incline-1991
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May 3, 2020 1:14pm
- krazykiwi
  
  There some really informative ‘history of’ pillars throughout the length of incline track. It makes for an interesting few hours walking, or a bit less on the bike
  
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  May 3, 2020 2:07pm
  - Swifty
    
    Thanks KK – I’ve decided today that I’m going to walk it.
    
    The doco has really struck a chord with me.
    
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    May 3, 2020 3:03pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Take a torch, and some snacks. It’s a lovely walk on a good day, but not so nice on a windy one. The 900m tunnel at the top is an experience to go though. I’ve done it 15-20 times … but never on foot. If you did decide to ride this on your bike I suggest you drive to Maymorn railway station. Leave your car and set off. The steepest part of the ride is in the first 15 minutes, so don’t despair. The rest is pretty easy going. Once down in Wairarapa take a left and head north to Featherston. You can put your bike on the train … and the next stop south is Maymorn. It’s beautiful scenery. Enjoy!
      
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      May 3, 2020 7:01pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  The museum in Featherston has the restored Fell Engine that stood in the park there for many years.
  
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  May 3, 2020 2:31pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    The museum in Featherston is happy to take a lot of your money for not much in return.
    And the guy on duty was the Fat Controller reincarnated.
    But I was the only punter there at the time so I guess I had to cover their costs for the day.
    But yes, a fascinating piece of our history.
    
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    May 3, 2020 9:00pm
gorse

The message today? You naughty naughty people. A few have had a party, we might lock the other 5 million up for a few more days. I don’t resort to the following very often, but “wankers”
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May 3, 2020 1:17pm
- Prince
  
  Treating us like school children. We’re waiting here until you all sit quietly with your hands on your laps.
  
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  May 3, 2020 3:37pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Hands outside of pants though!!!
    
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    May 3, 2020 8:50pm
igm

Well, what is going to be said to the Cook Street mosque in Palmerston North where they are attending in numbers with gay abandon.
Seems only Christians are banned from congregating in this strange town.
Even their mayor is opting to blame the car stealing of young girls on boredom, supposedly seeking to waste more ratepayers’ money on entertainment for them.
Not to worry, he has wasted millions on worthless bridges and cycle lanes, whilst infrastructure has been ignored.
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May 3, 2020 1:28pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Has the council put up the rent for your bedsit, though?
  
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  May 3, 2020 3:49pm
  - Papalazarou
    
    You’re not a very nice person, are you?
    
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    May 3, 2020 7:49pm
  - igm
    
    The day I, or any of my family, become either ratepayer- or taxpayer-funded accommodation leeches is the day I will hang up my boots and join the ranks of Labour supporters and get a council job.
    
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    May 4, 2020 3:21am
- Rachael Membery
  
  ‘Gay abandon’?
  
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  May 3, 2020 8:49pm
Jack5

News from Taiwan, a world leader in fighting Wuhan flu.

After six days with no new cases, the country’s Central Epidemic Command Centre reports three new cases: a woman in her 60s who had returned from visiting Australia and Japan and a married couple who returned on Friday from working in Senegal.

Taiwan has not reported any new domestic cases for 20 consecutive days.

Meanwhile the 700 sailors in quarantine after 31 others caught Covid-19 on a goodwill trip to Micronesia, end their 14-day quarantine this weekend.

Taiwan Wuhan flu figures: 432 cases, and six fatalities. Taiwan population: 23.6 million.
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May 3, 2020 2:03pm
- rangitoto
  
  Kind of interesting that a couple brought it back from Senegal. Similar population to Taiwan but also has less reported cases than NZ.
  
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  May 3, 2020 3:17pm
greenfinger

Both left wing media papers – NZH and Stuff – parades in concert the headline “encouraging” from Bloomfield after NZ recorded 2 new cases. I guess it would look good on his and Ardern’s CV. Typical one dimensional and shallow coverage. Any paper and its journalists that wants to be taken seriously would surely ask at what cost in new daily cases of unemployment? Unless of course, they are merely there to be the mouth piece of the government, or worse still, to satisfy personal agenda!
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May 3, 2020 2:15pm
- Prince
  
  Just looked at Stuff to find an article about his view now on the flu vaccine debacle, but I can only find something about his favourite love song.
  Says it all really.
  
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  May 3, 2020 3:30pm
- kwkiwigirl
  
  Wind up job eh. Bloomfield saying we might not be able to go to level 2 because of people breaking the lockdown. Wtf?? We have only 2 new cases ffs.
  This guy’s taking the piss out of NZ now. Heard him described somewhere as a’featureless burueacrat’. That’s about the correct summation of the guy.
  
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  May 3, 2020 4:46pm
  - wilderbeast
    
    Agreed, he’s massively overstepping his jurisdiction too
    
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    May 3, 2020 7:01pm
greenfinger

The most honest and transparent government? That’s because this government has consistently underachieved so badly that it has been impossible to hide and be dishonest about anything, except perhaps for her claim of fame as the leader in the world to have eradicated covd19 by changing the definition of “eradication”? Transparency and honesty means “the alternate name for richard” if you are unemployed. Unlike the champagne socialist generation you are now breeding who happily drink your kool-aid, I would rather have a job than Grant or you sending out a cheques!
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May 3, 2020 2:53pm
Jack5

Famous investor Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway has sold its airline shares, valued at near $NZ9 billion in December.

Buffett was once sceptical about airlines as investments, but in 2016 he began investing in them, encouraged by the difficulty of new airlines entering the industry.

He bought stakes in the four leading American airlines, which last year had their tenth successive year of profits, and were expecting a good 2020 until Wuhan flu struck.

CNBC reports:

As of December, Berkshire owned 42.5 million (10% stake) American shares, 58.9 million (9.2% stake) Delta shares, 51.3 million (10.1% stake) Southwest shares and 21.9 million (7.6% stake) United shares. The stocks are down 62.9%, 58.7%, 45.8% and 69.7%, respectively, in 2020.
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May 3, 2020 3:27pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Christ. I just watched a trailer of Max Headroom 20 minutes into the future.
Imagine the socialists with ‘blipverts’
As usual, if you have no sense of humour, or are just a rabid leftie, scroll on down.
Downticks please
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May 3, 2020 3:48pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Ha! Some of them burst into fire just when you wear a ‘Trump 2020’ hat LOL
  
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  May 3, 2020 3:59pm
Manolo

When will comrade Ardern announce we are moving to level 2? So far, the Labour government has done a very effective demolition job on productive New Zealand.
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May 3, 2020 3:56pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

True or fake?
Stalin once ripped all the feathers off a live chicken. He then set the chicken on the floor some distance away.
The chicken was bloodied and suffering, yet when Stalin tossed some wheat around, it followed him.
This is how you govern stupid people, no matter how much pain. You throw them a useless treat at election time
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May 3, 2020 4:11pm
- Alex13
  
  This post has equal veracity relating to both Stalin and governance.
  
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  May 3, 2020 4:45pm
RiP NZ

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/05/coronavirus-nz-police-issue-stern-warning-to-gangs-breaching-covid-19-response-protocol.html

Talk is cheap and all that, smacks of a PR release in response to growing criticism and the rinse Bridges and co. put on the commissioner re checkpoints.
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May 3, 2020 4:18pm
- wilderbeast
  
  Totally agree, and doesn’t that tell you a lot about how we’re governed and how kiwis are treated like a bunch of mugs by Ardern & co
  
  Why issue a warning? Why not arrest them like others were over the long weekend….
  
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  May 3, 2020 7:00pm
Fletch

As a single guy, with a King Single bed, I have to say, I feel discriminated against by electric blanket manufacturers. No one seems to make a real woolen electric blanket in the King Single size any more. I know they used to, because I had one.

Maybe it isn’t worth their while ?
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May 3, 2020 4:23pm
wilderbeast

I’m contemplating an OIA request which questions the role of Ashley Bloomfield in making or recommending covid restrictions (ie level 4, 3, 2 etc). I’d then post it on Facebook and other social media platforms. I feel he needs a reminder that he is a health professional without decision making powers and in a role without even sufficient scope to provide a fully rounded recommendation….thoughts from the fine folk of KiwiBlog?
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May 3, 2020 5:58pm
- Ian Boag
  
  Go for it. Demand time on the PMs standup. Maybe wear a balaclava?
  
  Show Ashley Bloomfield that he is a tosser, but people can now get the dinkum oil from an anonymous member of the wilderpeople who is a respected poster on KB! Would you perhaps do the Facebook etc stuff under your real name?
  
  Really …..
  
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  May 3, 2020 6:08pm
  - wilderbeast
    
    Not sure quite what to make of that Ian, but I’ll take it at face value!
    
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    May 3, 2020 6:55pm
- MrTips
  
  The OIA only applies to ministers and their activities, AFAIA.
  
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  May 3, 2020 6:51pm
  - ex-golfer
    
    Wrong.
    OIA’s can request any papers, advice, communications (including emails, texts ) etc within Government agencies.
    It is not restricted to Ministers and their activities.
    
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    May 3, 2020 8:19pm
Grant

Some interesting commentary comparing the 1968 epidemic with the current one.
100,00 deaths in the US alone and no lock down. Wonder why?
G
https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic/
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May 3, 2020 6:27pm
- MrTips
  
  Thanks Grant. Thought provoking and interesting read. I had no idea about Woodstock occuring in the middle of a pandemic!
  
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  May 3, 2020 6:49pm
  - Grant
    
    The question I find myself asking now is:
    Would it have been any worse if we had behaved like our parents did 52 years ago, and just carried on more or less as normal?
    G
    
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    May 3, 2020 8:26pm
Inandout

Could you imagine this lawyer interviewing Winston Peters?
https://twitter.com/thevivafrei/status/1256781039650947072?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

I love what he reads into different answers that Biden gives.
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May 3, 2020 7:57pm

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