General Debate 22 May 2020

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MT_Tinman

It’s amazing just how much anti-National bullshit $50 mil buys.
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May 22, 2020 8:02am
- Loddenthinks
  
  This is only Phase I, comrade. Anybody else notice the baseless, anonymous smear being promoted heavily on Stuff? Describing Muller as “pale, male and stale” and suggesting caucus will “hold the line” behind Bridges.
  
  Had the cheek to say that “skulking around behind the curtains” is not the way to do things. Anonymously, of course, in a non-skulking kind of way.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:10am
  - Surely Knott
    
    They also did an article on Judith. Showing a sly side eye picture of her using words like dark arts, coup, plotting . Yet, It is the completely opposite words that they use to describe Jacinda and her be kind schtick. The failing we have this election is our failure to secure a news source that presents a balanced point of view. There is no mainstream media with a different narrative in NZ. The media rarely present economic news. Our schools don’t teach history of Stalin and the Kulaks , democracy or civil liberties, they teach the UN. Local Government funds NGO’s who use their position for propaganda.
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:40am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      The Nats should buy Stuff.
      
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      May 22, 2020 1:14pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    There’s also been the bullshit line put about by Tova O’Brien that Muller has secretly been campaigning for the leadership on the taxpayer dime.
    
    Muller is National’s agriculture spokesman, and he was around the country a lot in the six months before lockdown meeting farmers and other primary producers about a range of issues, but especially water reforms. Unlike MP’s with mainly urban portfolios, Muller has had to go to places where Air New Zealand has long since ceased to fly. Naturally, that’s going to make doing his job effectively more expensive than it would for an MP who simply flies on the main trunk all the time. Many of the meetings are late in the day, which means overnighting.
    
    O’Brien put two and two together yesterday, and came up with 22. But if Muller does become National’s leader today, there’s a sign that the media is already gunning for him, simply because he’s on the Blue Team, and is a potential threat to their media darling Prime Minister.
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:46am
    - otago-man
      
      funny, I am a farmer of 40 years, and take a keen interest in farming and political matters and I did not know Muller was the opposition spokesman in Agriculture, never heard of him till now !
      
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      May 22, 2020 12:22pm
- Isobar
  
  All i can hope Tinman is that the National Party is not full of people like you. If they are they will be in opposition for a long time.
  
  Its time to see some connection with voters from the Nats, rather than treating them as idiots.
  
  You can right of bad polls as a product of $50mil if you like, but to do so ignores the actual problems that need adressing within the National Party on how they can reconnect and listen to the mood of the public.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:14am
  - MT_Tinman
    
    Isobar, your comment has no relationship to mine so I’m buggered if I understand your reason for reply.
    
    Having said that I wouldn’t vote National if you paid me to – ACT reflects my opinions far better – so you can be assured the National Party is not full of people like me.
    
    As for your last paragraph, if you used that hunk of useless meat between your ears you would understand that Bridges and National were heading for electoral victory until the dictatorship started doing party political broadcasts every day – which is why the $50.mil slime is so keen to remove Bridges.
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:35am
    - freethinker
      
      MT – Totally agree Nationals problem is not Bridges personality or appearance, its a lack of policy. Nationals natural support base is – small business, Farmers, Landlords and now Gun owners, what have National done to appeal/re assure them – nothing so you are right Party Vote ACT, electorate vote National, bring in 10 ACT MPs to keep National honest and infused with pragmatic & workable policy. I note that the CB poll had ACT with 3 MPs so the message is percolating through, during the campaign ACT should hit hard at the mountain of policy failures by the clowns.
      
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      May 22, 2020 10:48am
      - KH
        
        Dead right. The Nats leader has minimal party policy to support them.
        
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        May 22, 2020 11:42am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Maurice Shadbolt wrote about this situation in his book “One of Ben’s” in part it was about 1 of his uncles when electioneering from the soapbox would abuse the audience the prospective voters for not agreeing with his point of view. And 100 years later ……
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:46am
  - Crisplion
    
    Isobar, if the latest polls were part of an ongoing trend, I’d certainly agree with you. As it is, I’m not sure. For Bridges and National the COVID situation was the political equivalent of being struck by lightening. Until then, the government was looking like they’d probably lose in September.
    
    Now, it may be that, largely becasue the media pilloried him for doing his job in extraordinarily difficult circumstances, Bridges is now tainted to the point that he can’t recover. If the National caucus judges that to be the case they should replace him. Otherwise they should unify behind him.
    
    Either way, they must get past leadership wrangling forthwith and then try to move the political focus to the unfolding economic catastrophe and the government’s shameful record of incompetence and failure to deliver on any of their major policy objectives. It still might not be enough to win in September, but losing by a bit is much better than losing by a lot.
    
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    May 22, 2020 10:02am
    - Unity
      
      And who knows but if National lose, hopefully before long people would start to see Labour for what they are (or aren’t) and put in a vote of no confidence in the Government. Is this a viable possibility?
      
      I was hoping they would stay with Bridges but however you look at it, he is just not resonating with the National Party voters and also has presentation faults, so perhaps change would be the better way to go and then for all to unite immediately behind the new Leader and get some good policy out there post haste.
      
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      May 22, 2020 11:29am
      - Crisplion
        
        There’s no mechanism in our democracy for voters to throw out a government other than at a general election. On balance, that’s probably a good thing, although it’s regrettably true that another three years of Ardern and her crew of fools and mountebanks is likely to break the country. I’m very sad about that, but I guess we’re going to learn the hard way.
        
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        May 22, 2020 12:14pm
fernglas

According to the Mums from the local school, they will not be vaccinating themselves or their kids against Covid-19 when, or rather if, a vaccine becomes available. Given the chaos the disease has caused, should they have that option?
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May 22, 2020 8:02am
- krazykiwi
  
  What has caused the chaos – the disease, or the government’s reaction to the disease?
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:17am
- cmm
  
  To push back a bit: has the chaos been caused by the virus, or by the panic?
  
  Where was the chaos in 1957? In 1968? In 2009?
  
  Where is the chaos when millions of people die each year of TB, AIDS and malaria?
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:25am
  - NZDirect
    
    10,000 NZ’ders die every year of all cancers – no political reaction, no restriction, no lockdowns.
    
    The whole thing has been a Jacinda hoax and a massive theft of NZ’ders rigths and freedoms.
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:21am
    - Isobar
      
      Maybe no lockdown is required because cancer is not contagious?
      
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      May 22, 2020 9:46am
    - MT_Tinman
      
      I can (almost) accept the initial house arrest due to panic and bloody stupid university-based schoolteachers and the idea that hospitals could be over-run but after one week that was obviously not the case and the house-arrest should have been removed completely with advice offered to all re prevention and assistance for the elderly to allow them to protect themselves.
      
      The rest of the panic was political and has demonstrated to the communist scum that NZers are easily led and even easier fooled.
      
      To make things worse the house-arrest has killed more people (suicide, road accidents on open roads, people unable to access necessary medical assistance etc.) than the virus has and the virus killed those >80 only.
      
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      May 22, 2020 10:02am
- Komata
  
  fernglas@0802
  
  So therefore, by their logic WHEN (not if) their little darling contracts ‘whatever’ that could have been immunised-against, they will NOT be visiting the local Doctor, and should there be long-term consequences on such child, they will also NOT avail themselves of any state-proffered assistance.
  
  If you believe that then I have several bridges (no, not Simon) to sell you.
  
  In that context (and I’ve seen it happen) it’s interesting to see how the consequences of ‘high principles’ and ‘virtue-signalling ‘ can suddenly become everybody-else’s ‘fault’ except their own…
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:29am
- JackRabbit
  
  Given the nature of viruses, you would have to be suspect of any vaccine that ‘promised’ to stop Covid-19.
  
  They haven’t got vaccines for SARS and MERS, and even flu vaccines fail to work. Flu vaccines in age care facilities do nothing to stop cluster deaths amongst those that have been vaccinated. This is commonplace and widely reported.
  
  Vaccines for Measles, Mumps, Tetanus and major known conditions, appear to work, but as for later vaccines, many appear just to be cash cows for the pharmaceuticals all paid for under health budgets.
  Not much better than snake oil, or coloured lolly water.
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:30am
  - rouppe
    
    They haven’t got vaccines for SARS and MERS because they stopped developing one when the lack of catastrophe meant the funding dried up
    
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    May 22, 2020 8:54am
    - Lance
      
      A full vaccine development can cost a staggering amount of money.
      
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      May 22, 2020 9:32am
    - JackRabbit
      
      You are right. Not everyone does stuff for money. All the great science breakthroughs come from dedicated scientists who focused on trying to the problem because they saw a need.
      
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      May 22, 2020 10:23am
    - HemiT
      
      i heard what sounded like to be some ‘apologists on radio yesterday with Banksie so i think i will answer your questions .
      
      https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/05/general_debate_12_may_2020.html#comment-2712646
      
      i have seen it done but havn’t myself boiled a crayfish alive .
      
      i believe i know what macerating / gasing is .
      
      wether or not you think it’s hypocritical that people judge , it hasn’t stopped me from intervening appropiately on occassion and have taken an animal or two to the spca in my time .
      
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      May 22, 2020 11:01am
  - MCos
    
    Not ‘appear’ to work. They do work.
    The flu vaccine is effective for certain strains of flu. That is why incidence of influenza amongst those who have had the jab is much lower than than those who haven’t.
    Regardless more than 80% of the population doesn’t get the flu each year.
    If a vaccine is developed that is, I don’t know say 80% effective against Covid-19, I’ll be at the front of the queue.
    An anti-vaxxer, I ain’t
    I’m old enough to remember polio and everyone getting measles and mumps and chicken pox and I’ve had the flu. Then there was whooping cough.
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:08am
- emmess
  
  I am not an anti-vaxxer by any means but I don’t plan on taking any vaccine in the first few years. I am in my forties and reasonably healthy. If I was older or immunocompromised I definitely would, earlier.
  But to me, the risk of trying an untested vaccine outweighs the rewards.
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:41am
  - fernglas
    
    Presumably the vaccine will have been properly tested before it is released.
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:09am
    - donny
      
      This is doubtful. The average vaccine takes 10+ years to develop. The fastest ever was mumps at 4 years. A big reason for this is health & safety. You need to first test on animals then wait, you need to then test on humans & wait. It is not a fast process. Often side effects can take several years to come to light.
      I’m also not an anti vaxer but if a vaccine comes out next year me or my kids won’t be taking it.
      
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      May 22, 2020 10:14am
    - Komata
      
      fernglas@0909
      
      As in Bill (Gates) and his boys will discuss it over drinks around the boardroom table and when everyone agrees, (ie, are sufficiently drunk) release it as being ‘fully tested’?
      
      In other words, just as its always been done. Nothing new there…
      
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      May 22, 2020 10:44am
  - MCos
    
    By the time a Covid-19 vaccine gets out here it won’t be untested unless someone is selling from their car boot.
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:11am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Annual flu vaccines always cause me trouble. I take a week-10 days typically to get over them.
    
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    May 22, 2020 10:59am
- Jules99
  
  Hmmm, lets see. Shall I give my kiddie a rushed-through vaccine that has not had extensive long-term testing. For an infection that appears not to harm children. Probably not.
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:44am
  - David Garrett
    
    Jules: Yes, I think that’s pretty much my position also…and I have a son who is prone to chest infections and pneumonia. He certainly gets the flu jab every year though.
    
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    May 22, 2020 10:04am
- krazykiwi
  
  Hey fernglas, I have an idea to help mollify concerns about a vaccine. Put yourself up for clinical trials while campaigning to ensure any vaccine goes through rigorous, multi-phase trials as usually demanded by the FDA. The mums at the local school would, I’m sure, appreciate your commitment to their children’s health.
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:55am
  - fernglas
    
    So I take it you support their approach?
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:59am
- godruelf
  
  Attitudes might change if you need a vaccination certificate to get into other countries or maybe 14 days locked up at your cost on return to NZ. The pull of the Gold Coast or the Islands can be a pretty strong incentive
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:01am
- Critical Thinker
  
  “My body! My choice!”
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:19am
- Surely Knott
  
  Yes. Of course, they should have the option. I’ve vaccinated my family. But if others chose not to so be it. If it’s a well proven vaccination then educate them on why it’s a good idea. Make it readily available in schools . But no. Enough of the creeping state control.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:43am
TWEEDSE

I wonder what St Jacinda, the patron saint of spin, will slip under the radar today whilst National self implodes.

Their all useless apart from ACT. The only party showing any worthy values.
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May 22, 2020 8:02am
- Martin Williams
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I suspect Seymour is more than a little worried. The ship he tied his dinghy to has hit an iceberg!
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:06am
  - mjw
    
    What, me worry?
    
    https://bobwoodcock.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/alferd-e-neuman.png
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:40am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Of course he’s worried. He believes in property rights and freedom. This Government doesn’t. We should all be more than a little worried.
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:40am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Your dinghy will turn out to be the lifeboat bro’ . . .
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:44am
  - Crisplion
    
    Hardly Martin. Even the polls that are so catastrophic for National has ACT picking up two more seats. Now I’m sure that Seymour would prefer to be part of a coalition government than in opposition, but he’s young and in it for the long haul. He’ll be happy enough to return to parliament with two or three additional ACT MPs.
    
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    May 22, 2020 10:06am
  - David Garrett
    
    Williams: that comment simply shows how ignorant you are about MMP politics and politics in general…so here’s a wee primer: the potential benefit to the Nats from having an ACT presence is the same, regardless of how many seats the Nats themselves have got.
    
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    May 22, 2020 10:07am
  - kowtow
    
    Yeah well the tramp steamer the swing ,she saved me,voters have booked a berth on won’t be getting cordon bleu ,they’ll be facing a tsunami of extra charges and they’ll find it very hard to jump ship …..
    
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    May 22, 2020 10:36am
- MCos
  
  Are your worried the Labour Party will be selling untested Covid-19 vaccines from a car boot as a fund raiser?
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:14am
- Isobar
  
  Probably, on the brightside at least the Nats are getting what they have desired for so long – wall to wall coverage.
  
  Hell they even bumped COVID off the lead of the news last night for the first time.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:21am
- mjw
  
  We have two polls where National totally craters, yet ACT picks up NOTHING. Pretty clear evidence that ACT are putting off National voters.
  
  This is quite a big story, actually. Wonder when the MSM will get on to it?
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:35am
- Inandout
  
  tweedse, notice how the National bloodbath is held on a Friday when our palace normally holds a virus update?
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:39am
mikenmildagain

Happy International Day for Biological Diversity!
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May 22, 2020 8:03am
- mandk
  
  Viruses are an amazing example of biological diversity.
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:19am
  - David Garrett
    
    mandk; Yes indeed…funny thing that diversity: it’s apparently only a positive when it comes to multi-cultural populations; we don’t seek “diversity” of health or education outcomes, or indeed in the courts. there we value equally good – or equally just as the case may be – outcomes for all.
    
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    May 22, 2020 10:09am
- kowtow
  
  Wet markets a great example of that diversity , all concentrated in a small space.
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:26am
  - David Garrett
    
    kowtow: Yes indeed…another example (see my above comment) where diversity is not such a good or sensible idea.
    
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    May 22, 2020 10:10am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Did you have your pangolin for breakfast?
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:27am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    What, eat my own pet?
    
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    May 22, 2020 8:50am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    Hmmm… I had some nice crumbed fish pieces, which on further reading, come from China.
    
    Could be pangolin…
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:12am
    - Random T Person
      
      Probably Mekong catfish Simon!
      Have a great day mate.
      
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      May 22, 2020 9:39am
      - kowtow
        
        Great medicinal dish , pumped full of anti biotics .
        
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        May 22, 2020 2:44pm
    - Inandout
      
      Simon, someone in your family doesn’t read the labels. MiC or Made in China food should have a warning label.
      
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      May 22, 2020 9:41am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      With a nice anthrax ripple for dessert?
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zZQQijocRI
      
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      May 22, 2020 10:06am
- 453mm
  
  @mike… are there really International Days for [insert_here] every day? Or are you just making shit up?
  
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  May 22, 2020 11:30am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Do you really think I would invent something like that?
    Mind you, it was a tough choice today, But there is still time for you to celebrate World Goth Day.
    
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    May 22, 2020 2:10pm
2ic

So, what do we have?

a. 1.7 million New Zealanders are being supported by the wage subsidy scheme. That’s 65% of our workforce!

b. A poll showing 59% of New Zealanders want the wage subsidy continued beyond 3 months.

c. Two polls putting Labour up around 60% support.

So we have around 60% of New Zealanders living what they perceive as some sort socialist utopia, not wanting to face the reality that it’s all going to collapse like a house of cards when money runs out.

The majority of New Zealanders don’t want to face the reality that we are in the eye of the storm at the moment, and unfortunately for this country it looks as though Labour are going to be able to ride this out until the election.

We can criticise politicians all we like, but at the moment I’m just terrible disheartened at the attitudes of my fellow New Zealanders, who seem to be happy to take the money and let future generations pick up the tab.
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May 22, 2020 8:04am
- kowtow
  
  Good point , where’re all those woke economics commentators who were always bagging the Baby Boomers for so called “intergenerational theft”
  More proof , if needed , of “it’s ok when the left do it”
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:30am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Worth pointing out that it’s a post-boomer that we have in office as our PM – on the cusp of being a millennial in fact.
    
    So the next time we hear this “boomers stole our future” shite we can tell them that it’s one of theirs that took away their, their kids’, their grandkids’ and their great grandkids’ futures
    
    This is a bigger spend than WWII and is calculated to take 3 generations to pay for – 80 years of indebtedness for a glorified flu
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:10am
    - Isobar
      
      Even so they are only predicting dept to raise to 50% of GDP, before dropping again. Some countries right now would only be able to dream of a debt to GDP ratio of 50%. The USA for example is over 100% and this was pre-covid. We are very lucky.
      
      In any recession it is the job of governments to use fiscal policy to get things moving again. If there was no wage subsidy right now job losses would be in the hundreds of thousands.
      
      Lets not forget the wage subsidy was a National Party creation, brought in after the Christchurch Earthquakes. It allowed people to still bring home money, keep the economy that they support ticking over and allowed businesses to free up money to use elsewhere during that time. It is a good idea and it will undoubtedly save many jobs that will have gone otherwise.
      
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      May 22, 2020 9:28am
      - DeepBlue
        
        Few have a problem with the initial wage subsidy, it’s the extension, and the next extension and the UBI after that.
        
        Most recently unemployed workers can’t live off the wage subsidy let alone benefit so they need jobs. But Jacinda is kind she will make it all right. Hug.
        
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        May 22, 2020 9:54am
      - Crisplion
        
        It’s necessary in the short term but it’s no long- or even medium-term solution. Better would be to slash business tax to stimulate employment retention and hiring, and to have a GST hiatus to stimulate spending. It a very bad idea to get people used to being dependent on the state for their livelihoods.
        
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        May 22, 2020 10:10am
      - SmokerGuy
        
        Don’t forget our private debt, that is massive and almost never quoted when people mention our debt levels. We will have no buffer when the next financial crisis hits and what if we have another earthquake for example? People aren’t thinking about these things, we are literally going to be balancing on the edge of a cliff hoping there isn’t a strong wind that will push us off.
        
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        May 22, 2020 10:12am
      - WaveyDavey
        
        Which is fine but tell me what we manufacture locally that we can sell in large quantities overseas to pay off that debt?
        
        Dairy? Fine but no jobs in it. Tourism? Gone and not coming back.
        
        Welcome to the return of the largely agrarian society that the Greens have been angling for.
        
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        May 22, 2020 10:52am
      - Isobar
        
        Wavey,
        
        I’m not sure i still get your point – either they would have spent it on the wage subsidy or paying out the unemployment benefit.
        
        Either way govt debt goes up in a recession. Its why its so important to get it down when the sun is shining.
        
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        May 22, 2020 12:35pm
      - WaveyDavey
        
        Isobar
        
        Except that “training” people for non-existent jobs is not just about money paid to the trainee
        
        There’s a whole raft of bureaucracy and cost involved in delivering this training.
        
        This is pointless job creation geared towards keeping people off the dole
        
        With the exception of dairy there is nothing that NZ produces that is of any great interest in the real world. Dairy operations don’t need many high-skilled high-value employees to operate
        
        We also used to sell our environment overseas but that’s gone. So where is this foreign currency that we’ll need to pay off this debt going to come from?
        
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        May 22, 2020 2:23pm
- DeepBlue
  
  The biggest undeclared factor in this is business owners and boards.
  
  All it will take to upset this 60% bubble is for businesses owners to decide the wage subsidy and future opportunity is gone and to start closures/redundancies now and not wait until after the election.
  
  If these business owners think Jacinda is better for the future and don’t make decisions in June then Jacinda will win.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:46am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Those decisions are being made. The subsidies still require cash to be drained from businesses. Without a very firm view of future revenue to recoup that loss of working capital, and quickly, there is little choice. Most businesses won’t attempt to borrow in such uncertainty and the banks won’t accept that risk either. Employment is at stake.
    
    Most businesses are not Maori, media, Shane Jones sponsored or some other favoured group to be watered with the blood of taxpayers. Unfortunately the amateur wannabe communist govt have no understanding of what they are doing. They are also unaware of the economic tsunami they have launched. They won’t know how to cope. NZ may be in the midst of this by the election.
    
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    May 22, 2020 11:14am
- David Garrett
  
  2ic: Good comment Sir/madam.
  
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  May 22, 2020 10:11am
krazykiwi

Apparently implementing a virtual police state, and illegally detaining everyone in their homes has an upside: Covid-19 has ‘eliminated’ homelessness.

Homelessness in New Zealand was all but eliminated in just six weeks during the Covid-19 lockdown.

Charities who work with the homeless say there are only a handful of rough sleepers left on the streets in all of the major centres, some of whom had refused help.

The organisations are tentatively and quietly celebrating the milestone, which was a distant goal before the Covid-19 lockdown.

“It feels like an amazing achievement,” said Zoe Truell, a manager at Lifewise. “It is something we couldn’t have dreamed of being possible or actually happening two months ago.”

And the media wonder why paying customers stay away in droves.
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May 22, 2020 8:06am
- Swifty
  
  Sorry, I don’t understand that article.
  
  Are they saying that, when push came to shove, these people had a place to stay all along?
  
  That we have been bullshitted to for years over the homelessness situation?
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:19am
  - alloytoo
    
    That sounds about right.
    
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    May 22, 2020 8:53am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    They do, they are all in motels now at your expense.
    
    How does this government propose to get the ‘homeless’ out of their free accommodation when the money runs out? Build the 8,000 social houses from the billion trees not planted? Yeah, nah.
    
    Why would you pay rent when you can be ‘homeless’ and put up in a motel? Why feed your children, your responsibility, when they get fed at school with the schools then send the food around to the ‘accommodation’ when schools were not open. Reckon the children got much of that food with the whanau in residence?
    
    This country cannot afford this government.
    
    The cure for this aging labour virus is a through blue rinse.
    
    Hold steady team.
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:54am
  - DeepBlue
    
    No,the government budgeted for more motels. Rounded them up because of the scary virus.
    
    That budget will be permanent now. Can’t really kick them back to the streets. Unkind.
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:57am
- mandk
  
  Did it not occur to Zoe that this simply implies there was no real homelessness before COVID-19?
  
  Or did I miss the news that thousands of houses suddenly appeared?
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:24am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    You didn’t read the news articles about all the AirBnB’s being hurriedly turned into rentals?
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:14am
    - mandk
      
      Yeah right.
      Like landlords are suddenly rushing to let properties to people with no references, no jobs, and drug habits or mental illnesses.
      
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      May 22, 2020 9:49am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Yeah right. One of my son’s friends just shifted his residence from under a bridge to a forest. Now he has another spot for the time being.
  He makes the choices of how and where he lives.
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:30am
- projectman
  
  “Charities who work with the homeless say there are only a handful of rough sleepers left on the streets in all of the major centres..”.
  
  So where did they all go? How come they suddenly found a home? Perhaps not as big a problem as we’re led to believe.
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:32am
- krazykiwi
  
  But, a bit further down:
  
  The bigger challenge – keeping them off the street permanently – is yet to come. Many more people are expected to be made homeless as the economic downturn bites.
  
  So, another person who struggles with the definition of the word ‘eliminate’. Been to the PM’s school of spin, lies and deceit perhaps!
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:44am
- Grant
  
  So Zoe, all those who were camped on the roadsides and reserves around Hatfield’s beach during the lockdown were just there for the views and the fresh air?
  And here’s me thinking that freedom camping was frowned upon by the authorities…..
  G
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:50am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It’s a seasonal phenomenon….cold night in Gizzy…dropped to 1degC…not too attractive in the wind-chill tunnel under Gladstone Rd Bridge.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:02am
  - David Garrett
    
    Maggy: I always preferred the Peel Street bridge myself…less traffic but more pigeons.
    
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    May 22, 2020 10:13am
Maggie Pie

“Words that do not match deeds are not important”
-Che Guevara

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYhdRKPUYAAh7PB?format=jpg&name=small
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May 22, 2020 8:06am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I had a Che Guevara t shirt when I was 18. Then I studied economics and science. Then I got a job. Problem solved.
  
  This is just a hunch but if I had instead studied “communications” and then got a job working for Che Guevara t shirt wearers, my result may have been different.
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:14am
- Salacious Crumb
  
  Viva la Equus Faciem!
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:28am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    That’s the weirdest case of tourettes you have there…
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:16am
- Im Right
  
  Did I read the truth Maggie that Che , darling of the luvvies and Marxist far lefties was a nasty piece of work and murdered gays (hated homosexuals) as well as political prisoners?
  Or is that just capitalist propaganda and he was a true socialist warrior who did no harm!?
  Not really asking you Maggie, just thinking out loud really as to why the far left revere him when he is against most of their woke belief mantra….
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:30am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That will probably get me in Facebook jail
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:21am
niggly

Here are some National leadership thoughts!

Nikki Kaye as deputy to Todd Muller?
Nah consider making her deputy to Simon Bridges!
Why? Because Simon can play the “bad cop” and Nikki can play the “good cop” (and Nikki will get positive attention for National). This is the combo until election 2020!
(Paula Bennett has done a sterling job but she moves into a Stephen Joyce type strategic/fixer position – so it will still be a challenging, robust and very important role).

If National looses the 2020 election, then Simon/Nikki stand down.
Mark Mitchell as leader and Judith Collins as deputy stand up!
These two have been mooted for years and it’s their turn after all! Plus many National supporters have been wanting these two over the years!
Mark would make a fine leader, he has public appeal and name recognition. He’s down to earth but has the smarts.
Judith’s time has come but not as leader, as deputy she will have time to pursue vitial H&S/RMA reforms etc.

Now OTOH if Simon wins the 2020 election, then he’s the leader for 2-2.5 years at least but if his “approval” ratings are still poor (despite National being high) then Mark/Judith take over for election 2023 with 6-12 months in the job cementing their profiles to the public. (So some sort of deal could be done between Simon and Mark and Judith in terms of supporting each other’s ambitions)!

Roll on 2026 if Mark/Judith isn’t making any inroads, then Christopher Luxon steps up! With Todd Muller as deputy perhaps?! Gives him time to establish himself (after all he only rated 0.2% in last nights poll)!

Everyone gets a turn! Everyone is happy! No more infighting!
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May 22, 2020 8:07am
- Maggie Pie
  
  According to Banksie, Todd and Nikki are soo ‘wet’, Bellamy’s add TetraFin to their water jugs. LOL!!
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:21am
  - Inandout
    
    MP, Banksie is a Judith fan.
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:43am
- krazykiwi
  
  Kaye is a socialist & climate change devotee … with a blue rosette.
  
  This is the problem: Elections, so they say, are fought in the centre. The problem is for the last 30 years they’ve really been fought to the left of centre, and like compound interest we’re now well into debt and only offered different versions of socialism. The blue team deluding themselves that they are preventing a leftist/socialist takeover. In truth they are simply allowing it to gather momentum, and having millennials like Kaye leading won’t fix that – quite the opposite.
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:25am
- MT_Tinman
  
  Everyone is happy! No more infighting!
  
  A terrible idea.
  
  It is the competition, the “infighting” if you will, that gets the best out of all people including pollies.
  
  I do agree re Paula Bennett. The deputy leadership has seen her lose her bite – imho her best assett.
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:25am
  - DeepBlue
    
    I think Judith should become Deputy under Simon. With Paula bring freed to do the fix-it/strategy role.
    
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    May 22, 2020 10:00am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “Roll on 2026” FFS If Labour is in power in 2026, there will be no country to save.
  
  I don’t agree with most of your scenarios. Based on the latest polls if National wins the 2020 election it will be a miracle and Bridges will have the job as long as he wants it.
  
  Plus your scenarios are too complex. It doesn’t matter a toss who the Deputy is. Id wager that 80 percent of folk could not name the deputy leader of any political party.
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:28am
  - rangitoto
    
    Including the MSM who yesterday named Robberson as Labour deputy.
    
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    May 22, 2020 8:41am
    - RalphT
      
      Indeed. I had to tell Mrs T who the real deputy leader is, such is the profile of the dynamic Kelvin Davis
      
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      May 22, 2020 8:54am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      It’s the week after budget week. Hardly surprising the Finance Minister was confused for the Deputy. After all, we forget people’s names all the time. Even Simon Bridges couldn’t quite get his deputy’s name right the other day.
      
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      May 22, 2020 9:18am
  - niggly
    
    Oh Benedict it was just a half-light hearted post to show that “everyone can get what they want and be happy” and to lighten the sombre mood around here when leadership spills occur and people and posters start their own “infighting”! I know things won’t play out as I wrote it! (Except, why not perhaps)!
    
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    May 22, 2020 8:45am
- MrTips
  
  The problem National has with switching now is that Nikki and Muller, just like GraCinda, will become known as….
  
  KaynToad
  
  That’s how low our public and media perception has become.
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:59am
- Martin Williams
  
  Nikki Kaye as deputy to Todd Muller?
  Nah consider making her deputy to Simon Bridges!
  
  Paula Benefit will be thrilled, sweetie.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:08am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    How about Willie Jackson swap with Robbo? There are some nameless women on the Labour benches too who might be better employed as supermarket shelf stackers.
    Is Winston going to be topped by the SFO?
    Watta goin t’ do when another 50,000+ unemployed turn up in a month and won’t have a hope of getting a job again in the next three years?
    
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    May 22, 2020 11:25am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Thanks for the belly-laugh. That was really, really funny. You don’t often see satire as good as that on a Friday morning.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:30am
  - niggly
    
    Yep I’ve offended everyone (cos everyone’s non-favorites were put forward)! Mind you not sure which combos are the least liked!
    
    Psst see my reply to BY!
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:43am
cmm

Yesterday I found Wayne Mapp’s comment that National would have done the same thing as Labour and listened to the experts quite disturbing. I could not put my finger on why at the time, so had a wee think about it.

Now I take Wayne at his word, that National would have done the same, so I am not at all attacking him personally. I think, under these sorts of pressures, people in decision making roles often just abdicate their decision making to the experts. It is the easy thing to do.

However I think it is also a broken thing to do.

Firstly, I think it is naive to think that the experts always know best, will act in the best interests of everyone else and will make the best decisions. It is naive for at least the following reasons:
* The experts do not agree. Get five experts and you will get twelve different views. Some will broadly agree and some will violently disagree. One expert should give different opinions and advice depending on different constraints.
* The experts tend to focus on their specialty area. Most decisions are multi-disciplinary. For example, we need to consider both the points raised by health experts and financial experts. Heck, even within just health there will be those that think short term vs those that think long term. The advice you get will depend on the constraints.
* Our institutions of experts are infected with activists. They will often peddle their advocacy rather than try to solve problems.
* They are massively political. They suppress dissenting views (ie. those from contrarians).

It is the job of our elected ministers to not just talk to one or two experts but to ask probing questions. They should be out searching for dissenting views. Finding out why those contrarians hold their views and help form a more informed picture. They need to explain constraints.

It is mainly those with contrarian views that come up with the best solutions. Every patent, every invention, came from someone with a contrarian view. The “consensus” view is the safe choice, but is often wrong.

If all you’re going to do is listen to the experts, then why do we need a minister? Seems like a waste of money and effort. Elected representatives are there to challenge the experts on our behalf and help tease out the best decisions. Any time that a member of the public has to ask probing questions and uncover ridiculousness it means the minister dropped the ball.
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May 22, 2020 8:10am
- mikenmildagain
  
  What you say is true, as far as it goes. In the present circumstances, however, no other set of politicians was likely to reject the advice of their health officials on how to respond to a pandemic. Politicians would also have had more scope for differences had there been any real divisions in the advice provided about how to respond.
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:14am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I disagree with most of the comments that Wayne Mapp posts here. I don’t have time to search for examples. However a common theme seems to be an inability to challenge views and to think critically.
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:20am
- krazykiwi
  
  It is the job of our elected ministers to not just talk to one or two experts but to ask probing questions
  
  That may once have been the case, but no longer. As trust in politicians has steadily declined they have pivoted to leverage the public’s trust in ‘scientists’ in order to advance their political interests. This experiment has been going on since the 1970’s and has really gathered pace with the advent of a manufactured climate crisis. The IPCC have absolutely mastered this strategy. Now its like this: “Hey I distrust those politicians, but this one is one stage with a real scientist who’s saying complex stuff .. but it’s ok, I trust them”
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:31am
  - chukar
    
    Kk
    Pay a scientist enough and they will make / find virtually anything you want.
    There is a public trough for them as well often filled by the politicians.
    
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    May 22, 2020 8:49am
  - cmm
    
    Sadly I think you are right on the money.
    
    The decision making seems to be mostly along the lines of least political risk and best optics rather than probing to get the best results for the people you are working for.
    
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    May 22, 2020 8:50am
- Scott
  
  I would hope that National is more concerned about freedom than Labour have been.
  So I would hope that National would have locked down far less severely. They would have been more concerned about businesses. They would have seen that the virus has not really taken hold in New Zealand and would have eased restrictions quicker. That they would not have encouraged the police to set up a program where people inform on their neighbours.
  I would hope that National would have been less comfortable in telling people what to do every day and less comfortable with the current Prime Minister’s “if people start breaking the lockdown then we won’t go to level 3 and you won’t have your takeaways” strict mother to a small child approach.
  
  And I disagree with Wayne Mapp about Sweden. Time will tell whether Sweden took the right approach or not. This is the first time that the whole population of countries has been locked down. Previously people would have done the moderate approach of quarantining the elderly and the infirm. That could still have worked in New Zealand?
  
  But what we do know is that we have thousands of unemployed and billions of dollars have been spent and the wealth of a generation has been used up to fight a virus that is more than the flu but way less than a black death extinction type event. Time will tell and history will judge if the elites of the world have gone mad by squandering the wealth of a generation in a way that was totally out of proportion to the actual risk of the virus.
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:39am
  - surfing
    
    To keep covid under control our borders need to be closed until a vaccine is found.
    
    The argument as to whether Sweden is right, or we are right comes down to whether we get a vaccine soon. That is the biggest gamble ever.
    
    Australia has the best response so far in my view. They were able to keep more jobs running while still controlling the virus.
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:03am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      They may have kept more jobs running, but, although official data are not out yet, they appear to have lost a lot more jobs per capita than New Zealand.
      
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      May 22, 2020 10:00am
      - Tall Man
        
        “they appear to have lost a lot more jobs per capita than New Zealand.”
        
        Based on what, ardern’s feelz?
        
        I have family there and I can assure you that is not the case in the workplaces they inhabit so talk all the rubbish you want, it is still rubbish.
        
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        May 22, 2020 11:41am
- surfing
  
  The virus expert advises total society shutdown, the economics expert wants to keep people in jobs without exceeding the capacity of the healthcare system.
  
  Labour placed more emphasis on the virus expert, national would have placed more weight on economic issues. Most likely a National led response would have differed.
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:58am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    Plus, for Labour, it’s politically advantageous to have people out of work and dependent on handouts .
    
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    May 22, 2020 10:10am
- Isobar
  
  I agree they would have done similar things. PM Bill English and Dr Ashley Bloomfield would still be there doing the daily press conferences, listening to the same or similar advice.
  
  You have got to remember right now we have the benefit of hindsight, however at the time decisions needed to be made quickly without that benefit.
  
  It is incredibly hard to see how they would have made much of a difference to anything substantial other than some tinkering around the edges and it is unlikely any of the decisions would have resulted in a better case or death rate that NZ currently has.
  
  In any way – the exercise is pointless, because English is not the PM, so trying to figure out what he would or could have done differently really is moot.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:36am
  - Tall Man
    
    Not just hindsight, a great many of us here decried the response from our government and clearly stated that the current information did not show a world ending disease descending on us from afar.
    
    The 2010 epidemic was far worse in terms of deaths and infections yes was managed sensibly and without great fuss. Many within NZ didn’t even realise that we were facing a potential crisis.
    
    During the initial SARS crisis many still traveled, myself included, but were aware of the problem and took sensible steps to minimise the risk. Minimise the risk not eliminate it and force that methodology onto others.
    
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    May 22, 2020 11:46am
- Phronesis
  
  It’s worth considering whether we could have had better experts. All of the experts consulted spent their lives in Universities. The problem with the modern University is that it is a collection of ideological mono cultures and these cultures are unique to the different and very narrow disciplines.
  
  The reason we seem to have no one who understands both the financial economy and the health economy is because these disciplines speak different languages. Even if you get the two in the same room they can’t really communicate.
  
  From a career perspective, in the university the only way to succeed is to focus solely on developing your increasingly narrow expertise within your department or faculty. There simply is no pathway that rewards taking a broader approach to an issue. This incredibly narrow approach to the development of expertise makes the resulting expert advice essentially useless in the real world.
  
  You might think that it would be possible to synthesis the advice from two disparate fields into something useful but in reality this is next to impossible, often even if you are an expert in both fields already.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:37am
- Brian McDonald
  
  @CMM 8.10 am: With being in the less than 8% camp I can see your struggle. Yesterday, when international Covid infections surged past 5 million, NZ did not have a single new case. I can presumably say, at least for now from different 3 polls, that 90% NZers think that is great.
  
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  May 22, 2020 10:27am
  - cmm
    
    As the saying goes: eat shit, 700 billion flies can’t be wrong.
    
    With all the respect I can muster for my fellow voters, popularity is hardly an indication of good vs bad policy. Much depends on how things are explained.
    
    For example, the Swedish approach is based on explaining things rationally and clearly, treating people sensibly and as if they are sensible people. As one of their experts says: people are not stupid. As a result, they respond like adults.
    
    We on the other hand treat people as stupid little children with complete nanny-state control over their actions and thoughts. We use emotion, not thinking. We use parental bullying tactics.
    
    This is lazy and leads to poor decision making backed with silly kindy soundbites (seated, separated, single server) and drawings from children.
    
    It is worth remembering that Swedes are not risk-taking cowboys. They’re the people who make Volvo.
    
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    May 22, 2020 12:16pm
Justitia

At today’s caucus meeting Bridges should immediately tender his resignation as leader and the leadership should be thrown open for nominations. In his resignation remarks Bridges should acknowledge that the polls show he cannot lead National to victory and he should offer his full support to the new leader, whoever they might be. Now is the time for unity within National; further infighting would be disastrous and would sabotage any hope of recovering popular support. It’s time to take one for the team, Simon.
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May 22, 2020 8:14am
- Isobar
  
  I agree, the writing is on the wall.
  
  Furthermore he is such a divisive figure he should probably exit at the election. Give a new leadership team the time to settled without having someone bitter and divisive there in the background.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:38am
- SmokerGuy
  
  I suspect his ego is too big for that. I’m disappointed he cannot see the writing on the wall. I get that he hasn’t had much coverage but it would be different if he was actually liked by the public. He’s had a couple of years and people still don’t like him.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:50am
  - Tall Man
    
    What don’t people like? What the media tells them about him?
    
    FFS, why have so many been conned by a nasty biased media assessment? Do you think the next leader whether that is today or in the future will suddenly be anointed the way ardern was?
    
    Whoever leads the National Party will be attacked mercilessly by the media plus social media.
    
    If Muller is elected today he will be under attack by this evening and will also be “hated” by all and sundry according to tova and the rest.
    
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    May 22, 2020 11:39am
- Nickc2
  
  I think that if God and Moses had a son, even he could lead the National Party to victory this election. More is the pity.
  
  If the election was post Christmas, National would definitely be in with a chance but come September, with the MSM still having the hots for Cindy, I don’t think there is a chance.
  
  IMHO, the MSM has the ability to not only create controversy out of trivia, they also have the ability to change governments. They are working their arses off in the US to change their Government and our MSM are in Lockstep with their bros in the US.
  
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  May 22, 2020 12:04pm
G152

The fake news are having a field day currently interviewing their keyboards, political mates and passing sparrows.
Meanwhile one of their once lofty edifices is on the market for a dollar and, like their bulletins, no-ones buying….
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May 22, 2020 8:18am
SPC

White
The incumbent offers to resign if (internal) polls do not show the party over 35% by the first week of July. The starve them of poll information and then offer this as a carrot strategy.

Gray
Concerned MP’s looking over electoral shoulder – a muppet could achieve that, how about a total of party and personal support at over 45%.
Personal 10 and Party 35 to Personal 5 Party 40.

Black1
Challenger – just hold the vote already, but if we delay its then going to be harder for his successor to prevent some of you not being back here in October. Every day we are not …
Black2
Those with hidden ambitions – while we might well agree, we think we need the options that will become available once he resigns.
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May 22, 2020 8:19am
I remember when

So Matthew Hooting said Simon had made a Politics 101 blunder.
Did Simon realise that if they had finality in the leadership position it was one problem solved.
As the UMR and Reid polls were in tandem why would the Colmar B poll not be similar.
Now he has cleared the air as far as the leadership is concerned and taken some of the effect of the poll result away in one decision.
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May 22, 2020 8:23am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  At least Kim Hill challenged him on his promoting Todd Muller – put him on the defensive a bit…
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:48am
Wayne Mapp

cmm,

You make good points about the role of Ministers and Cabinet.

However, in March all public health experts (the DG, Sir David Skegg and Sir Peter Gluckman , Professors Baker and Hendy) were saying the same thing. Which was that NZ should lockdown. No Cabinet that I can imagine would have gone against that. They would not have searched out contrarian views of people outside the health sector on that point.

The judgement that Cabinet can legitimately exercise was the extent of the Lockdown. On this issue there is more involved than just health issues, though they obviously have primacy. So economic questions should also be asked. In the event, Labour went for Level 4. National would have gone for Level 3 Plus, similar to Australia.

Given the virtually unanimous consensus among the leading health specialists, there would have been no chance that a NZ Cabinet would have taken the Swedish approach against such advice. And in my view the outcome in Sweden shows they made the wrong decision in comparison to their Scandinavian neighbours.
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May 22, 2020 8:25am
- kowtow
  
  From my reading of news stories around the Sweden thing , what they failed to do , like so many other places was to protect adequately their elder care homes and other elderlies at home.
  
  Despite their international image , it would seem an awful lot of workers in that “industry” are low paid , migrants etc and the sector is underfunded and was not prepared for the virus.
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:37am
- Don Beckett
  
  While the expert, Dr. Simon Thornley, who had a differing view WRT lockdown, was shut out.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cB_DEbXrhE
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:37am
- SPC
  
  The decline in number of ICU beds here informed our decision (and I do agree construction site and manufacturing workers had few connections to returning Kiwis – more on the psychology of maintaining bubbles).
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12317275
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:39am
- cmm
  
  Wayne, good to have a mutually respectful discussion.
  
  It astounds me that nobody in the government has pushed back at Hendy (the 80,000 deaths guy) and asked him to explain why he has such confidence when his modeling is so wrong and why anyone should still take his models seriously. I suspect zero of the cabinet ministers etc actually read his reports and questioned him about this.
  
  I disagree that they were all in agreement. We had some like Thornley in Auckland pushing back hard. We had people from Otago telling the cabinet to drop from L4 to L3 immediately but She chose to follow Hendy even though his models and reports were obviously wrong at the time they were written and even worse by the time they were used for decision making.
  
  I will also push back on your stance on Sweden: “And in my view the outcome in Sweden shows they made the wrong decision in comparison to their Scandinavian neighbours”
  
  Ask the Swedes and they will say it is too early to talk about outcomes. They have always been of the view that you need to look at the longer term – at least two flu seasons – before you can really say what has worked and what has not.
  
  If there are huge discrepancies between neighbours then it is wise to ask why. I think it naive to just look at one variable and tag it on the level of lockdown.
  
  There are numerous differences in the Scandinavian countries. For example, Sweden typically has very large (100+) age care facilities. This makes them far more likely to lose many people in a hit.
  
  Look also for counter cases elsewhere. Why does one state in USA have terrible results and another have good results? Why do the states in Australia with the tightest lockdowns have the worst results?
  
  This is surely the job of those sitting in the cabinet etc – to actually probe and dig through the veneer.
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:46am
  - freemark
    
    Hendy is the guy who made big fan fare/virtue signal about not flying anymore due to Climate Change. He’s also now banging on about inequality in healthcare Maori vs others.
    I think he is a woke Lefty who loves Jacindarella, so his opinions/expertise/modelling is suspect if not immediately discredited. Souixsie another one who has an agenda beyond any scientific expertise.
    
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    May 22, 2020 9:33am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Sigh… Assuming somebody has no credibility due to their political leaning is bulverism of the highest order. It would be as wrong as assuming that a right leaning politician has no ability to enact meaningful social change.
      
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      May 22, 2020 10:04am
      - Tall Man
        
        “Assuming somebody has no credibility due to their political leaning is bulverism of the highest order”
        
        Sigh all you like but it is the total stupidity of his assertions that demonstrate he has no credibility.
        
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        May 22, 2020 11:26am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Wayne Mapp didn’t say they were “all” in agreement, he named those that were in agreement and politely kicked your butt to the curb CMM. He also said he believed that National would have gone for a Level 3 +. That is proven by the position of the Parliamentary section of the Nats took.
    And another day when the blog is dragged back to the past.
    
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    May 22, 2020 10:49am
- emmess
  
  I think their are three correct approachs depending on the severity of the outbreak
  
  1 – Hasn’t reached the country yet but in other countries – quarantine at border
  2 – In the country in low numbers – weak lockdown – similar or a bit weaker than Australia.
  3 – Has gotten away – Swedish approach
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:53am
- MrTips
  
  Wayne Mapp
  fair points but I must correct you on Shaun Hendy.
  
  He is not a public health expert. He is an opportunist physicist who believes everything can be modelled in a box.
  
  Go and look for any pandemic epidemiological publications prior to 2020 for his CoRE. You won’t find any.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:22am
- MCos
  
  In my view NZ took the correct approach if for no other reason than it protects the international tourism sector in the near term.
  If we had the same incidence of viral infection as Sweden, apart from anything else, Australia, by far our biggest source of tourists, wouldn’t touch us with a barge pole for the foreseeable future i.e. years.
  Furthermore.
  Sooner or later some sort of lockdown would still have become unavoidable. Unless, of course, ACT, the freedom at any cost party, won the election.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:35am
  - cmm
    
    In the near term (ie. next few months, maybe the rest of the year) there is no tourism sector to speak of.
    
    Our short term thinking should include the coming flu season. Otherwise it’s a bit like the All Blacks getting smug because they won the haka.
    
    Remember it’s not all or nothing. Sweden didn’t do nothing. They implemented some level of lockdown on their old age facilities etc and imposed limits on restaurants etc.
    
    All or nothing is generally a very broken way to look at the world, but is often easier. It is also often the “solution” provided by “experts” that do not consider the real world.
    
    For example, Hendy’s models were looking at 400 days of lockdowns and controls. 400 days – that’s well over a year!
    
    What is harder is to find the best bang-for-bucks point on the risk/reward curve: find the point that gives the best results but causes the least damage. That takes a lot of thinking – something that goes into short supply when people panic.
    
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    May 22, 2020 10:29am
- Critical Thinker
  
  There was never any valid scientific reason to shut the schools down due to the commie cough:
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q0PJKLHIDg
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:58am
- Kevin Herlihy
  
  No doubt the Nats would have gone for a more balanced response that would of included a greater degree of risk. Certainly that approach would have garnered criticism from the Health sector, however the Nats would have been more acutely aware of the economic impact associated with a complete lockdown and would have attempted to keep the economy working albeit in a considerably reduced function.
  It has worked for Australia, the post covid recovery there will not follow as steep a curve that New Zealand faces.
  Secondly the Nats would have been more cautious with subsidies and grants, if the economy is partially functioning there is less need for intervention, and funding could have been targeted more towards businesses affected by the border closure.
  
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  May 22, 2020 10:12am
- Tall Man
  
  Yet the figures show that the “affected” are in high numbers in the immigrant communities but statistically lower among the general population.
  
  Why would that be and if so, would a lockdown have made any difference?
  
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  May 22, 2020 11:33am
william blake

Yes, don’t listen to experts, just follow the polls and your own instincts. Surround yourself with sycophants and hire your own family to mirror your half baked opinions. Fire anyone who disagrees with you. Make NZ great again.
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May 22, 2020 8:26am
Swifty

Don’t trust China, China is asshoe:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/300018241/china-to-impose-sweeping-national-security-law-in-hong-kong-bypassing-citys-legislature
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May 22, 2020 8:27am
Yvette

Ardernation : an example –
Individuals who repeatedly break the rules could be arrested and jailed. Businesses that break the rules will be shut down, according to Prime Minister Ardern. She also warned that any queueing outside must be managed by the businesses.
Ardern also acknowledged the sacrifices everyone has made and cautioned Kiwis to be vigilant and to not get complacent with the easing restrictions.

Ardernation – to give the impression that Prime Minster Jacinda Ardern is single-handedly saving the nation.

Do not believe it? – see the result:
• In the One News Colmar Brunton poll released last night, National plummeted 17 percentage points to 29 per cent while Labour jumped up 18 percentage points to 59 per cent.

• Ardern and Labour, meanwhile, were well on top in the Newshub poll – Labour 56.5 percent in the party standings and Ardern 59.5 percent as preferred Prime Minister.

In total the country has been in some form of lockdown for nearly two months already.
On most days of those eight weeks, Ardern made special 1pm [One P.M.] appearances to make statements and answer questioners she selected. Name any other time, apart from War that this has occurred.

This has – purposely, or more likely just accidentally – turned out to be one of the greatest examples of brainwashing or Pavlov’s dog experiment.
As a storyline it has more subtlety and clever turning points than most of the more brilliant screenwriters can manage.
Who needs to read THE ACCIDENTAL POPE when you can see it happen before your eyes in reality.
Sit back and watch the plot sideline play through the National Party today.
Enjoy the entertainment, because we are all going to pay for it – dearly

“We all know there is more to do. We may have won a few battles, but we have not won the war.” – ~~Winston Churchill~~ St Jacinda d’Arc
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May 22, 2020 8:28am
- Don Beckett
  
  The poll results are a classic case of Stockholm Syndrome. It stuns me that so many kiwis just rolled over and surrendered their Freedom for the sake of some temporary health safety.
  
  This country is sleep-walking into socialism – welcome to the Soviet Socialist Aotearoa – also known as Nueva Venezueland.
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:42am
  - emmess
    
    I prefer the name Jacindazuela
    
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    May 22, 2020 8:57am
  - kowtow
    
    Sleep walking ?
    
    Nah , give it a “kiwi” twist.
    
    Sheep walking.
    
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    May 22, 2020 10:50am
Paulus

Having read a number of reports via NZME papers interviewing re the National Party can anybody tell me why almost universally women have a total dislike of Simon Bridges.
Is it because he is an intelligent, educated, hard working normal family man with a young family and no personal hangups ?
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May 22, 2020 8:29am
- Gravelroad
  
  You missed out “lawyer” Paulus, and, even worse – “court prosecutor”.
  We live in a society now where a lot of crime is glossed over because it is not their fault.
  Crimes are committed due to drug, alcohol and gambling addiction – not their fault.
  Not to mention poor upbringing, violence and being used for sexual purposes – not their fault.
  A lot of women view themselves as victims of society, which is why they associate themselves with gangs and suchlike – not their fault.
  Do I want to see my kid, boyf, gang associate teenager , old dad, husband in jail due to that nasty
  Lawyer Bridges prosecuting them and calling them criminals? No.
  Do the gang women raking in the millions from P sales want that stopped – no, of course they don’t.
  Bridges is a prosecutor.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:23am
- trout
  
  One factor may be that he is a bad communicator. His apparent refusal to tidy up his mangled speech delivery suggests a kind of selfish arrogance. I have known other politicians that have had elocution lessons from trained therapists for the very good reason that they must have their ideas easily understood. The unsympathetic media have described Bridges as ‘snarky’; this is an emotive reaction to harsh speech tones. A good example of the benefits of speech improvement is Kathryn Ryan, on RNZ. Prior to her getting the 9 to noon slot she was a political editor; her verbal contributions were pure ‘Newzild’ born and bred in South Otago. After obvious retraining her diction is now excellent and very listenable.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:53am
- hookerphil
  
  Mrs H.P doesn’t like him because when St Jacinda was at the U.N. dressed in her dowdy clothes and the toyboy was changing the nappies on the table delegates sit at – Simon was interviewed and he said that he was very proud of how She was representing New Zealand.
  He will never recover from that comment.
  
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  May 22, 2020 10:17am
Random T Person

It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.
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May 22, 2020 8:38am
I remember when

I agree with Wayne, in the end closing the border was a decision in line with much of the rest of the world.
What I hope National would have done was try to keep as much business operating as possible. Instead of the vacuum Labour created look at what businesses could operate under isolation rules.
Try to minimize the economic outcome
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May 22, 2020 8:38am
- amospicton
  
  They should have shut the border earlier than they did and taken steps to protect the vulnerable. They shut down everything and the onus on remaining open was ‘essential’ when it should have been ‘safe’. We’re winning the battle against the virus but are losing the overall well-being war as a result.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:30am
oldpark

Thought the Reid Poll and Colmar Brunton Poll were snow jobs . Check it out. TVNZ in Conjunction with Newshub TV3 . TV3 Poll ran May 12 -16 . TV 1 Poll May 16 -20. Mainstream Media and their sycophantic Labour Party arse lickers made sure that the Peters selected bunch of no hopers would get the result they craved . Would be interesting who or what were Polled and what were the questions put to the participtants.
What a web they have weaved as they set out to deceive. Just think of it . NZs economy in ashes circa 200,000- 300,000 potential unemployed anytime soon . Don’t think Kiwis are that dumb to throw common sense out the door and accept what Ardern has actually done in a panic . Or is their a lack of “common ” in the phrase.Go figure.
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May 22, 2020 8:41am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Yeah I think crying “fake polls” would be a mistake.
  
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  May 22, 2020 8:53am
- kowtow
  
  ‘Don’t think Kiwis are that dumb to throw common sense out the door and accept what Ardern has actually done in a panic . Or is their a lack of “common ” in the phrase.’
  
  Baaaaa.
  
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  May 22, 2020 10:48am
Maggie Pie

A friend tweets…

‘My mum and dad were dwarfs. All their lives they struggled to put food on the table’
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May 22, 2020 8:55am
Tomtoddy

Random thoughts on the National leadership race:

1. Its opportunistic. It did not matter who was leader with Ardern and Labour getting “wall to wall” coverage backed by the media sychophants National was always going suffer.

2. It was just weeks ago that Simon had the party at 45% – 46% – an amazing achievement for an opposition party. Why change?

3. National is already too much a “Labour lite” party. Muller/Kaye take the party further left. What about differentiation? What about some principle? What about the values of less governemt, lower taxes, more market that the party once espoused?

4. What has Muller done so far? Took National into the Zero Carbon Act. How could he or National’s MP’s consider that an achievement?What else? Nothing.

5. Is it sensible to change leaders at the behest of the media? The media made Ardern their darling, took her up in the polls, doused Bridges over one Facebook entry, campaigned against him and the national Party panics. How stupid is that?

6. Bridges does lack the “x” factor that has become vital in this shallow, celebrity run world. But Muller’s demeanour is even more wooden and unappealing.

7. There is no “right” time to change leaders of a party but a few months out from an election is disastrous timing. What about showing some savvy and some strength?

8. Isn’t a recommendation from Bolger a ‘kiss of death’? It should be. He is now more ‘left’ of Helen Clark or Michael Cullen.

And I am not a fan of Bridges!!!
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May 22, 2020 8:56am
- krazykiwi
  
  Not random thoughts at all – very well reasoned. I agree with every point you make.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:03am
- oldpark
  
  Even worse it was the clown Bolger who thought MMP was a good idea .Go figure that type of disaster brought on by him the so called great Helmsman . FFS.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:23am
- yossarian
  
  I’ve been coming to Kiwiblog for about 10 years. I’m not a political sycophant but I do follow mostly what’s going on and i have no idea who Muller is?
  
  Name recognition zero.
  
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  May 22, 2020 10:26am
Suze Wainwright

Might just be me but the RNZ journos haven’t sounded quite so bolshy the last couple of days. They can’t deny they know a power of economic pain is coming and it looks like Ardern will have to deal with it.

I’m still not convinced the TV political journos even know what a recession is…
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May 22, 2020 9:04am
- amospicton
  
  Yes if there is even a small amount of solace to come out of a Labour victory it will be watching their inevitable fall from grace. They’ll have to reap the seeds they’ve sowed. Just tragic we all get to do the same.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:33am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Heh, I’ve just seen a news alert complaining the govt’s response is sexist.
    
    Oh buddha, they haven’t even started yet – when will it be deemed racist & colonialist? Have they considered the sensitivities of LGBT+ people in their Covid response? (And apparently these are ‘their’ people)
    
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    May 22, 2020 10:11am
- Tall Man
  
  “I’m still not convinced the TV political journos even know what a recession is…”
  
  Of course they do Suze, that’s why they have big mirrors to watch their hairline.
  
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  May 22, 2020 11:18am
WaveyDavey

Question for the day:

If we are intending to spend billions training tradies to get us out of recession (not sure how that works, but ok) why, given that Fletcher has just laid off thousands, do we think this is doing anything but

(a) getting people ready for the dole

or

(b) providing Australia with a free and ready-trained resource?
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May 22, 2020 9:04am
- brett68
  
  It’s pre-trade training via polytechs.
  It’s probably more about keeping polytechs going than anything else.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:37am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    So (a) then.
    
    Exactly the same as the UK in the 80s. Reduce the dole numbers by putting people on training benefits
    
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    May 22, 2020 10:49am
    - brett68
      
      Normally they’re a one year course, supposed to be the equivalent of the first year of an apprenticeship.
      
      I can’t see what else it can be, the government doesn’t employ builders, sparkies, plumbers, etc, they have no ability to provide 3-4 year apprenticeships in all the different trades.
      
      This is another of those great Cindy con-jobs she’s well known for, chuck it out there everyone goes wow, amazing, she’s so great.
      
      Nothing ever eventuates but enough time usually goes by so everyone forgets about it.
      
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      May 22, 2020 11:43am
  - Paulus
    
    How many apprentices actually complete their full time.
    Very few actually as they move away from training to on the job when they can get money quickly – qualified or not.
    
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    May 22, 2020 1:42pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Would Fletchers tell us they were just trying to trim out the fat and reduce wages?
  
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  May 22, 2020 10:53am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Not sure what point you’re trying to make there.
    
    But if wages are falling and there’s already an oversupply of employees in particular profession then what’s the point of training more people to go into that profession?
    
    See law graduate salaries and unemployment numbers for a current example.
    
    We might as well be training commercial pilots on the off chance that we might be flying again sometime.
    
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    May 22, 2020 11:06am
  - Tall Man
    
    Would they stand up and publicly state that they have no confidence in this government restarting a lawnmower business than the entire industries of New Zealand?
    
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    May 22, 2020 11:16am
emmess

In terms of a deputy, Edwards said Muller and Nikki Kaye are the best political duo to represent National at this year’s election.

He said National desperately needs Muller – because he’s more politically centrist than Bridges, and will pull National towards the middle. National has become too socially conservative under Bridges and Paula Bennett.

He said Kaye has the ability to bring voters back to the blue side – because of her urban and social liberal political style.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12333892

Where the hell do the idiots at the Herald come up with this crap?
Find me one ex-National supporter who has temporarily flipped to Labour because of coronavirus that would say that they found Bridges and Bennett too socially conservative.
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May 22, 2020 9:07am
- amospicton
  
  Agreed – utterly moronic. The last poll before the virus was good for the Nats so the change is entirely due to the virus and nothing at all to do with the leadership being scially conservative or not.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:36am
- brett68
  
  They went to Labour because Cindy did a better job than Bridges.
  They now rate Cindy far better than Bridges, which is why he has to go, he can’t win these voters back.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:42am
  - Tall Man
    
    Please elaborate on the “better job” comment.
    
    If you really think that the “job” of our prime minister is to run around with crayon pictures and lies, gift our money to other countries without real reason, increase welfare dependency and allow a nasty old man to wreck vengeance on all who may have “slighted him” then the problem starts with you not Simon Bridges or whoever leads the National Party.
    
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    May 22, 2020 11:13am
I remember when

Forests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill.
Bill introduced under urgency without meaningful consultation with forestry industry.
The FOA president, Phil Taylor, says the government speakers in its first reading seem to think giving a certificate to someone who buys or sells logs, is going to lead to more logs being processed in NZ and not exported.
They seem to have no confidence in their own $5 billion spending for new housing units. Labour promised a wood preference policy in the last election.
Either the new law is going to be a pointless system of adding costs and inefficiencies or there is some other hidden intent, which is meant to tie trees in red tape and direct timber growing, harvesting and processing.
Either way, it’s a disincentive for anyone to invest if it goes through. Just when planting is picking up again, mostly driven by small scale NZ investors and farmers.He wonders if other primary industries will be the target to force domestic processing.
Forestry currently process 42% of our wood harvest right here in NZ.
The government obviously has fantasies of employing more processors with no market to sell to.
Let’s have proper investigation into how the system works, with plenty of good data, and how it can be properly reformed.
We have the capacity to provide thousands of jobs in forestry, transportation and construction.
Jobs are vital in the covid-19 recovery.
This scheme is a step backwards.
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May 22, 2020 9:09am
BeeJay

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion which is accepted. But what really pisses me off are the people, and the media in particular, who don’t know Todd Muller, never met him, never heard him speak, don’t know his work history, don’t know his achievements, who can say that “ he’s not the right person to replace Simon Bridges”!
So you knew Ardern before she fell into her current job? You knew John Key? You knew all previous challengers in recent political history? Todd Muller is a hard working electorate MP and a hardworking spokesperson for the jobs he’s been allotted while in opposition! Don’t listen to the absolute garbage coming from the government funded media!
If Muller succeeds with his challenge today, for goodness sake give the guy a chance! Simon Bridges hasn’t done the job, so let someone else have a go, even if you don’t know who he is, or know anything about him!
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May 22, 2020 9:14am
- brett68
  
  Media just write any shite, they don’t care, an article would be lucky to have a life span of more than 4 hours.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:45am
- Tall Man
  
  Fair points BeeJay but this is not an audition for the “Media Favourite” award. Whoever emerges today has the potential to become Prime Minister but I think the media has tipped their hand already, whoever leads the National Party will be vilified instantly and for as long as ardern is leader of the labour pardee.
  
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  May 22, 2020 11:08am
cmm

Apparently First XV boys want to repeat the year to get their place in the sun.

… and if they don’t then instead of becoming All Blacks they are going to turn into criminals and go to jail.

So, how does this work then? If these boys stay behind a year, then they will have a size/skill advantage over the next batch coming though. That means next year’s mob will complain that they got treated unfairly and want to spend an extra year, and then the next and the next.

The law of unintended consequences is a bugger….

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/300016610/coronavirus-schoolboys-considering-repeating-final-year-if-1xv-cannot-be-played
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May 22, 2020 9:16am
- amospicton
  
  Even if you are of the view that the virus is little more than a bad flu it is a bad thing and has bad consequences. The attitude that everyone has a right to be insulated from bad stuff is a big part of our problem and one that will hamper our recovery.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:38am
  - cmm
    
    Yup, the nanny-kiss-it-better attitude is a huge problem to the development of society.
    
    Attempting to make everything “fair” and equitable just leads to poor outcomes for everyone.
    
    I’m tall. Very tall. A cardiologist I spoke with explained that tall people end up putting more strain on their hearts and said this will knock 5 years off my life. I wonder if there’s a form I can fill in to get compo from the government?
    
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    May 22, 2020 11:59am
- Tall Man
  
  A sad indictment of our education system really.
  
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  May 22, 2020 11:05am
Happychappy

You would wonder why when people have been burnt in the past with Winston Peters promises why people on blogs like here on Kiwiblog would be suggest people should again vote for Peter’s to keep Labour honest. This is a stupid as what happened last Election when many were calling for the same to keep National honest. Just read through some of last night comments and keep it in mind if Peters happens to survive and joins the Coalition once more.
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May 22, 2020 9:19am
- Tall Man
  
  A dishonest man cannot keep another dishonest person honest.
  
  the “what’s in it for wynston” party are rotten to the core as are labour.
  
  No policy from either, just personal wealth growth and aggrandisement for our prime minister and deputy plus the minions.
  
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  May 22, 2020 11:04am
- Jules99
  
  Something doesn’t feel right about all of this. I don’t have any insider information, but it wouldn’t surprise me if money is changing hands somewhere. I’m sick of it. When a decent man is taken down in a hurry I just think, is it corruption?
  
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  May 22, 2020 1:42pm
Lee C

Mke’s minute suggested the National Party lacked purpose ethics and purpose. This is not the fault of Simon Bridges.
I feel contempt for this latest development. Using this situation as a pretext for ditching Bridges is just shallow and frankly craven.
This is not a party I would support.
I sincerely hope Bridges survives this and puts those malcontents where they belong.
‘chaos’ yesterday suggested that my stating if they knife Bridges I wouldn’t vote for them was akin to ‘crying like a baby’.
No, it’s something else, it’s called having enough integrity to not stab someone in the back.
On top of that it’s called not pissing my vote away on people who have the moral fortitude of a crack whore.
Thirdly it’s called not wasting my vote on people who appear to have the strategic nous of a goldfish.
We already have a party (or two)?with the ethical fortitude of a serial philanderer- I certainly don’t need another one.
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May 22, 2020 9:24am
- Tall Man
  
  I’m disappointed to see the rift. In order to MAGA they needed unity. I’m not a National party person more of an anti ardern and National presented the best option for me. I don’t care who the leader is but disunity is a turnoff in my mind and will probably cost them and NZ the election.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:45am
- cmm
  
  While Bridges might fend off others in a power struggle, it might be a pyrrhic victory.
  
  Not much point in winning if it doesn’t reengage the punters.
  
  Bridges has never really done it for me.
  
  He seems very good at being an opposition leader, but that’s not the same skill set as being a PM which requires charisma more than technical competence with the law etc.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:50am
  - chaos
    
    I tend to think Seymour comes off more as the opposition leader than bridges. He is lacking and useless in question time, better in debate.
    
    3 2
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    May 22, 2020 10:06am
- SmokerGuy
  
  With all Bridges profile, he has 4% of people who want him as PM. Do you seriously think with all that’s going on and the PM and Labour at those levels he has any chance of turning it around with 4%? If you do then with respect I think you’re dreaming. NZ’s future is at risk so rather than seeing it as unethical, I see it as a party that wants to win rather than just sitting back and letting themselves get destroyed in the election because they don’t have the balls to make a change when it truly matters.
  
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  May 22, 2020 9:54am
- chaos
  
  For goodness sake if the party lacks anything of course that is directly because of their leader. Who do you think is to blame, the cleaning lady?
  
  And yes people who whinge and bitch and refuse to vote for a party because they don’t understand how politics work are cry babies. I’ve never liked bridges, but will continue to vote for National based on their policies not on who the show pony leading it is. And when those policies do not match what I support or a party with better policies comes along that is what will change my vote, not the stupidity people have of voting because they like the leader. Jesus, that is how we got the bimbo we have no in government because people looked and the person and not the policy. You might as well vote for Jacinda if that is how you base your vote.
  
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  May 22, 2020 10:10am
  - Tall Man
    
    Very well put.
    
    I didn’t mind Simon Bridges but I have never met him and never will.
    
    I don’t like liars so instantly disliked ardern but I’ve never met her and never will.
    
    Like you, I base my decisions on policy and it seems 56% don’t.
    
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    May 22, 2020 11:00am
- Libertarians are right
  
  I agree. I don’t like Bridges personality but I don’t care. I actually think he’s doing a pretty good job (just not a good job at self promotion).
  
  Anyone with a brain would expect the current poll results given the wall to wall Jacinda coverage and the media bias.
  
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  May 22, 2020 10:12am
I remember when

NZ Post will begin sending a backlog of parcels.
I have been told NZ Post’s problems were made worse because the earliest parcels were being buried by the following days (plural).
Auckland and Waikato could take up to 10 days while nationally it is 4 days for most items.
“This is a one-off situation and we are really sorry for the delays”.
It may be a one off for parcels but delayed mail delivery has been a problem since who remembers when.
SO ONLINE TRADING will save the day.
10 0
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May 22, 2020 9:29am
- chaos
  
  I just hope packages from the USA hurry up and arrive
  
  3 1
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  May 22, 2020 10:05am
  - Lance
    
    Some of my orders take 3 days from the USA, some others 8 weeks and counting.
    
    1 0
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    May 22, 2020 11:17am
    - chaos
      
      Eeek , up to 8 weeks? I better start halving my pills to one a day
      
      0 1
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      May 22, 2020 12:30pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Is Jacinda very quiet lately, or is it just me?
I don’t trust people when they go quiet – what is she up to?
14 4
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May 22, 2020 9:35am
- niggly
  
  Probably nothing … literally …. whilst Robbo runs the ship on her’s and Deputy Davis’ behalf?
  
  3 0
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  May 22, 2020 9:41am
- fernglas
  
  Obviously she’s sitting back and letting her opponents self-destruct
  
  5 1
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  May 22, 2020 9:41am
- MCos
  
  Grizzle when she says anything.
  Grizzle when she says nothing.
  
  3 5
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  May 22, 2020 9:41am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I guess if she says nothing then she is not lying
    
    7 2
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    May 22, 2020 10:50am
- Inandout
  
  Steve, next Level coming, big day out for our leader.
  
  3 0
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  May 22, 2020 9:55am
- emmess
  
  This dumb shit
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka9x4igDi-s
  
  2 1
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  May 22, 2020 9:56am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Brilliant idea from the PTPM //
    
    1 1
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    May 22, 2020 10:54am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  On a break bro’, will be back at 1.00
  
  2 0
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  May 22, 2020 9:58am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Make up your mind: when she’s on TV everyday you moan about her dominating the media…
  
  4 7
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  May 22, 2020 10:09am
- doggone7
  
  Once upon a time ‘communist inspired plot’ was pretty common. Maybe she’s resurrected that – being quiet is a communist inspired plot.
  
  So how does that work? What subtleties are at play?
  I reckon she’s playing to paranoia. Very subtle. The constant whiners about her ubiquity are being played. She’s disconcerting them.
  
  When their cries about her being everywhere have turned to wailing, showing they miss her she’ll be back. They’ll flip the record over and sing their other pathetic tunes. Reprise after reprise until suddenly it’s Napoleon XIV: ‘They’re coming to take me away’
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzHtm1jhL4
  
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  May 22, 2020 11:07am
cmm

We are getting fed two stories about the future:
A) Road to Recovery: Recovery suggests everything is going to be the same, except of course, for a $100bn steaming crater.
B) A post-Covid world: A new world order with a new way of thinking about work, life, climate, whatever. Huge government dependency and spending.

Some people want to get back to the status quo and others seem to think of this as an opportunity to force through radical agendas.

Where are we going to end up? A or B?
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May 22, 2020 10:07am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Um, neither?
  
  3 6
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  May 22, 2020 10:16am
- chaos
  
  We will end up at G, still. A lot more to come that will change things
  
  3 1
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  May 22, 2020 10:18am
Maggie Pie

For anyone who may have been uncertain,
‘Ramadan’ ends at midnight tonite.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYkqa-5U0AMr6WJ?format=jpg&name=360×360
6 1
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May 22, 2020 10:18am
- chaos
  
  Wasn’t Ramadan a song in Grease….
  
  2 1
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  May 22, 2020 10:19am
Critical Thinker

Have we reached peak TDS yet? ?

“I would vote for Joe Biden if he boiled babies and ate them.”
– Katha Pollitt. Columnist for The Nation.

https://dailycaller.com/2020/05/21/joe-biden-tara-reade-boiled-babies-nation/

I have a hunch that the deadly TDS pandemic gripping much of the Western world is sadly only just getting started. Especially when there’s almost certainly going to be 5 more years of it ?
7 2
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May 22, 2020 10:24am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Watch play school TV1 at midday and you will find out. TDS is in it’s toddler stages
  
  5 2
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  May 22, 2020 11:05am
I remember when

Forest (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisors) Amendment Bill.
First reading, with virtually no consultation, under urgency on the 15th May.
Submissions closed at 11.59pm last night (21st May).
Why the unholy rush?
Is this a prelude to state control, state getting involved in industry.
Is it in the interest of the Green?
Does it to help Winston and Shane?
5 0
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May 22, 2020 10:26am
Tauhei Notts

I am hoping that National will stick with the former crown prosecutor, Simon.
I note that Todd Muller’s big claim to fane is that he had a very senior job at Fonterra; New Zealand’s biggest company. While he was with Fonterra they started a Chilean foul up, had Synlu problems, Melamine problems, Danone stuff up, Benmate horror story and invested big in useless cowsheds in China. The Labour Party could be merciless as they pour all that out.
In March last year a horse named Crown Prosecutor was a 100 to one rough outsider in the Derby at Ellerslie. It got up to win.
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May 22, 2020 10:37am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

When my kids were little and I wanted to control them, I would tell them a monster would get them if they came out of their room.
Never guessed it would work on an entire population.
19 2
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May 22, 2020 11:02am
- rangitoto
  
  Not only that , after letting a nasty disease into the country, removing civil liberties, causing thousands of job layoffs, saddling the millenials with huge debt to be repayed. Yay, let’s vote Cindy. I think it is called the Stockholm syndrome. If she ordered that everyone gets beaten up by gangs every working day, the sheeple would say she’s wonderful because she’s giving us an extra day off.
  
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  May 22, 2020 11:24am
greybeard

I find it interesting to read about voters who change ( or say they will change ) from one party to another for whatever reason.
I have always voted National ( I am now 71 ) and wouldn’t dream of voting for anyone else, regardless of their promises and supposed policies.
I like ACT, but if I voted for ACT that would deprive National of a party vote, so what is the point ?
National represents better than any other party the things which appeal to me: I detest communism and socialism, I detest race-based parties, I support protection of the environment but not to the point of ideological madness, and National always has by far the best candidates to run the economy.
I don’t care who leads them.
Anyway, I also wish ACT the best of luck and hope they take votes from NZF and the others or even pick up previous abstainers.
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May 22, 2020 11:17am
- Jules99
  
  Recall that Bill English brought home more votes than Jacinda, and yet fared badly the first time he tried. It was back yard deals that won if for her, not votes. On election day people vote for the party or the candidate, not the leader.
  
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  May 22, 2020 1:36pm
I remember when

Re Jacinda seems to have disappeared:
This is a pattern that Cinders follows of attempting to use herself in bursts so that the PR Hologram doesn’t get stale and overused.
It also allows the party to use other people for the mundane and “don’t want to get my hands dirty” unpopular jobs.
She looks like she runs on nervous energy and loses weight and gets tired looking when required to front for longer periods when under pressure.
If Labour wins the next Election the probability, of having to deal with relentless bad news, would make a third term for her seem unlikely.
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May 22, 2020 11:28am
KH

Would hate to have to vote today.
Two very good candidates.
3 1
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May 22, 2020 11:44am
Belinda

Is that Tova O’brien I saw earlier this morning in her Che Guevara beret?
6 2
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May 22, 2020 12:09pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Biden in hot water?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFUjtsxb3OI&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR3veEIEi-ZWELh7hCLn6ffLmhQns5GXNY3VbKwlBzY4qXzCY04E6hizCwk
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May 22, 2020 12:27pm
cmm

Huge music video effort from Crowder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl3ztVprbmw
0 1
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May 22, 2020 1:04pm
krazykiwi

Listen …. the ‘pop … pop … pop’ noise you can hear are the exploding heads of Libs, Dems and TDS sufferers:

Donald Trump drug [kk: lol] to be tested on NHS staff with hopes it could prevent coronavirus

Study involving at least 20 NHS hospitals aims to establish whether anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine can fend off virus.
:::
The study, involving at least 20 NHS hospitals, aims to establish whether the cheap anti-malarial drug can fend off the virus.

Oxford Radcliffe Hospital and Royal Sussex County hospital, in Brighton, are among the first hospitals involved in the global study, which will involve 40,000 health professionals from around the world. Researchers hope to have results by the end of this year.
:::
But UK researchers said they hope that the drug may be more effective if it is used preemptively to reduce the chance of catching the virus. It costs less than 10 pence a day, likely to fall further if it was given to the population en masse.
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May 22, 2020 2:03pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  There is nothing wrong with testing the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine.
  There is everything wrong with the president promoting use of an untested remedy.
  
  3 4
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  May 22, 2020 3:50pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    ‘There is everything wrong with the president promoting use of an untested remedy.” See Mike? The POTUS is doing it so wimps like you can shy away
    
    4 1
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    May 22, 2020 4:35pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Untested? But only untested for Covid.
      Fuck off with the nonsense Mike
      
      4 2
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      May 22, 2020 4:37pm
rangitoto

Forget SARS-COV-2, we could be in for a magnetic pole reversal.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8345553/Earths-magnetic-field-WEAKENING-Africa-South-America-malfunctioning-satellites.html
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May 22, 2020 2:33pm
chaos

* New Zealand Post will hike the price of sending a standard letter by 10 cents, to $1.40, from July 1.

The state-owned postal service revealed changes to its rates and services, including an increase in the cost to send standard mail and some prepaid bags, in a statement on its website.*

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121597532/nz-post-putting-prices-up-changing-services
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May 22, 2020 3:35pm
greybeard

If Muller sucks up to Peters I will vote ACT.
7 1
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May 22, 2020 4:11pm
- barnacle bill
  
  @greybeard
  Also, I think he needs to learn to walk before he sets off to run.
  
  I note that he said in the NZ Herald he expects to be PM after the election.
  
  Talk about shooting himself in the foot.
  
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  May 22, 2020 4:42pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

This will not stop those calling themselves suckerberg – and many variations, from creating an identity and using a cock as a profile picture.
Coz it could be true.
https://babylonbee.com/news/facebook-to-begin-fact-checking-users-inaccurate-avatars?utm_content=buffer99545&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer&fbclid=IwAR1ObkzWmvLGHIJWUfcEmuG4D0LEmIYi5Esxd3Wutz87TJN7IzplVYxsiQQ
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May 22, 2020 4:11pm

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