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June 21, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 21 June 2020

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PhilBest

I’ve returned to post about COVID-19 knowledge of major importance. I stand by my arguments from the lockdown period; lockdown was unnecessary and the economic, health and social destruction was even more so.
I urge all interested people to absorb the following and “work” all the contacts you have among our elected representatives and expert advisors.
First, Jonathan Kay of “Quillette” gave us this superb comprehensive analysis of the mechanisms of “Superspreader Events” on 23 April.
https://quillette.com/2020/04/23/covid-19-superspreader-events-in-28-countries-critical-patterns-and-lessons/
This is such high-quality analytical journalism it leaves even the specialist medical research sector for dead.
Here is where I admit I failed to notice something before now. I argued frequently on KB that there was no evidence that “the curve” was “flattened” by lockdowns to any detectable extent over and above what the low-cost measures of social distancing, hygiene and restrictions on large gatherings achieve. There is now abundant statistical analysis supporting this argument, including from Prof. John Gibson of Waikato University.
But the Dutch statistician Maurice de Hond has been conducting a blog-based lonely argument for months, of even greater significance. He argues that nothing was necessary beyond restricting events of the “Super Spreader” kind. His statistical analysis is convincing; major outbreaks and epicenter-level pandemic severity strongly correlate to “seasons” of festivals and events. The rates of spread strongly correspond to a “peak” of noisy activity indoors – it is not sports fields and street carnivals and beaches where the spread happens, it is in the bars and restaurants and even homes, afterwards. The spread is airborne, in indoor environments that are poorly ventilated (because of outdoor conditions) where everyone is “at high volume”. This includes congregational church singing, parties, post-event gatherings and so on. There is a lesser role that still must be acknowledged, for “direct contact” events such as funerals and weddings where everyone is doing a lot of hugging, kissing, crying etc.
De Hond also recognizes the “climate” factor, which makes the indoor environments relatively better or worse.
Maurice de Hond is now warning that governments in the phase of relaxing restrictions, are doing so for the specific types of event that are “THE” problem along with all the things they never should have banned in the first place! This is of major importance for NZ in the event that COVID-19 has leaked through our government’s sloppy border arrangements. We must not “lock down” again, we must target the right things only (and this obviously includes precautions in the Rest Home sector).
https://www.maurice.nl/covid-19-english/
Read all the latest postings in particular. His 13 June post titled “Checkllist” links back to old postings and discusses the evidence since that vindicates them. His 20 June post on Wells (1955) shows him to be a man after my own heart. Wells (1955) is an authoritative work on spread of pathogens that has been cited by the establishment experts to support their idea that spread of COVID-19 is via contact and droplets from coughing and sneezing. Hence the 2 metre social distancing rule. The denial of a role for airborne viruses willfully ignores obvious cases like the Washington State choir practice in March where careful distancing was observed. De Hond obtained a copy of Wells (1955) and read it himself: he concludes that the “experts” have either not bothered to read it themselves or they are deliberately cherry-picking findings from one section and ignoring others.
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June 21, 2020 8:00am
- PhilBest
  
  Another very significant point made by Maurice de Hond, is that “modelling” wrongly seeks to nicely quantify the spread at a STEADY rate which they then apply to society as a whole under a range of levels of social activity. But this is completely wrong! The “exponential spread” is NOT “because of people coming into contact with each other” in the course of their daily lives, and any “infection factor” based on this assumption will produce grossly wrong modelled outputs.
  
  “Exponential spread” is actually from “super exponential spread” at a few locations at a few times. The rest of the time, spread is not sufficiently serious that it would result in a noticeable pandemic (relative to all the usual “flu like illnesses” that go around). A model based on whether or not superspreader events are occurring or disallowed, would be the only model that would provide results that could guide policy of good cost-benefit ratio.
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:20am
- krazykiwi
  
  I’ve learned quite a bit from the solid essays at Quillette, and also at off-guardian.org. This one on the extent of the lying: Lies, Damned Lies and Covid19
  
  Thus the once-respectable Atlantic, after months of promoting coronavirus hysteria, has published a kind of palinode that admits virtually every charge made by critics of lockdown policies — but still winds up gloomily insisting on the freedom-haters’ moral supremacy, facts or no facts.
  
  The authors (Alexis Madrigal and Robinson Meyer) grudgingly concede the growing evidence that going outdoors, instead of being cooped up for months at a time per lockdown fiats, actually reduces the risk of infection.
  :::
  Yes, this is a highly contagious respiratory infection that can have serious effects on unusually vulnerable people. But beyond that, just about everything we were told about COVID19 has turned out to be false.
  
  We were told the virus would kill millions in the US alone, and that was false.
  
  We were told lockdowns would make it go away, and that was false.
  
  We were told we would only be confined until the rate of new cases leveled off, and that was false.
  
  We were told that while the outbreak lasted no state government would tolerate any sort of public gathering for any reason, and that was false.
  
  We were told that anyone who questioned the wisdom of the draconian restrictions foisted on us by our governments was a crypto-Nazi whose real goal was to kill off the weak — and that was false, not to mention slanderous.
  
  Most unforgivably of all, we were told — and told, and told — that morality was entirely on the side of the democracy-destroyers. That was a lie of breathtaking proportions.
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:02am
  - Ruahine
    
    I really like the phrase ‘police state enthusiasts’ because that is exactly what we have been subjected to. Let us not forget Mike Bush and his ‘cold place’ for those who dare transgress.
    
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    June 21, 2020 9:15am
  - hullkiwi
    
    …and the news yesterday from Italy. That testing of water samples from Turin and Milan shows evidence of the Chkna disease as far back as 18th December. Almost 2 weeks before China notified the WHO of the virus outbreak.
    
    As they say, “Lies, damn lies, and international diplomacy with states who you shouldn’t be talking to”.
    
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    June 21, 2020 9:31am
    - PhilBest
      
      The evidence convincingly points to an October crisis at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, from which point COVID-19 spread slowly throughout the world. It exploded at specific locations when a “tipping point” was reached, relating to the numbers of infected people who attended superspreader events at those locations. Some of these infected attendees may well have just arrived from somewhere thousands of miles away.
      
      I definitely stand by my repeated assertion that it is nonsense that NZ was “reached by the virus” later than, say, France, where it is known someone died of it in December. It just didn’t DO anything here to an extent that would make GP’s report on anything unusual in terms of the rates of “flu like illness”. We don’t bother to do swab tests for these illnesses or identify the virus.
      
      When the “tipping point” was reached so that we had a few “Superspreader Events”, it is noticeable how little further harm was triggered in terms of further spread, hospitalizations of known infected, and “excess mortality” – those who died in NZ in particular, were most certainly the most closely aligned with the tiny fraction who were “likely to die anyway of anything that came along”.
      
      What we are now noting, the reduced incidence of all “flus”, and avoiding noticeable excess mortality from COVID-19, we could have achieved with measures well short of lockdown. I now say that even social distancing was unnecessary; all that is necessary is to restrict the kinds of event that result in “Superspreading”. Not ban them altogether; educate people about how to behave at them. No cheering, shouting, singing, or “pashing up”. Mask-wearing works because it greatly limits the scope for these things.
      
      Audiences should be allowed to clap but not cheer. Church pastors can sermonize to a quiet congregation, but no hymn singing (play a recording instead) and definitely no demonstrative “charismatic” worship!
      
      Staff and visitors at Rest Homes should be well aware of the kind of “events” that most likely would have infected them, and should stay out of the Rest Home until they have five days between them and the “event” they attended, and have been tested.
      
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      June 21, 2020 10:56am
  - PhilBest
    
    “…going outdoors, instead of being cooped up for months at a time per lockdown fiats, actually reduces the risk of infection…”
    
    How on earth so-called “experts” even thought they could get away with such an absurd, anti-scientific assertion to the contrary, beggars belief. It stinks of unaccountable, untouchable, swamp-immunity cabal behaviour. The MSM obviously a willing participant in the fraud. It reminds me of Theodore Dalrymple’s dictum that the whole point of the “edicts” of totalitarians including modern P.C. ones is their absurdity. They are not merely “disputable” with the totalitarians coming down on one side as a matter of expedience; they are obvious nonsense to which the people are required to submit as a demonstration of deliberate humiliation and subservience.
    
    We are clearly at the point of “fall” of our civilization when people are this stupid and gullible and compliant. Britain is a sad story; the majority want lockdown to continue even now!
    
    Britain in fact is one of the exemplars of the unintended consequences “OF” locking everyone down when the establishment has long sinced crushed any aspirations to decent housing conditions; legal tenancy arrangements for “a share in a room” are common. When renters crowded in together like this are all coming and going and trying to minimize disturbance of each other, there is less chance of infection of each other; lock them in together 24/7 and what happens at that point? Not to mention that airborne viruses will likely affect entire floors and blocks of apartments. Some of these residents will be Rest Home workers; in fact low-paid, immigrant Rest Home workers are more likely than not, to live this way!! This is a plausible explanation for a significant part of the damage done by this pandemic.
    
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    June 21, 2020 11:09am
  - IC5000
    
    I’m looking forward to the Trump rally in Tulsa to see how effectively covid spreads amongst attendees as a grand experiment.
    
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    June 21, 2020 12:43pm
    - PhilBest
      
      As if all the BLM protests haven’t tested that already!
      
      As one conservative commenter said about Doctors who pivoted from accusing lockdown breachers of “murdering granny”, to supporting BLM protests because the “cause” justified it, back to condemining upcoming Trump rallies:
      
      “Yeah, Doc, yeah. Now shut up and go straight to hell. We’re not listening anymore”.
      
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      June 21, 2020 1:53pm
  - SB2
    
    Krazy Kiwi,
    
    “We were told…… etc, etc?
    
    Exactly whom was telling us?
    
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    June 21, 2020 1:32pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Your question suggests to me that you have not consumed MSM content for 5 months. You’re probably the better for it.
      
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      June 21, 2020 2:58pm
- Sacha
  
  Thanks for those links. Fascinating, but not surprising about the SSE’s. We were always instructed to avoid crowds ‘laughing and singing’ when young back in the 50’s and 60’s. We didn’t go out if we had colds and coughs and church was definitely a no-no.
  It seem that these basic public hygiene lessons have to be learnt all over again. (Remember? – if we forget the outcomes of history, we are doomed to repeat them.)
  
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  June 21, 2020 11:20am
  - PhilBest
    
    What miserable specimens are downticking a comment like that?
    
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    June 21, 2020 1:56pm
- Kiwi_in_Paris
  
  There is no test for Covid 19. There is zero science to support this, seeing as the virus has never been purified. For the first two months there wasn’t any type of test, just symptoms, after that there has never been an effective test. To say one tests positive for Covid 19, is a lie. No one has proven it to be a virus, either:
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR2Ju_E1kuQ&t=4s
  
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  June 21, 2020 10:07pm
MT_Tinman

You could only read about it.

Newshub. Under heading called “Racism”:

Māori Party co-leader John Tamihere calls Pākehā ‘asymptomatic racists’

i.e. Admitted racist and co-leader of racist party calls all non-Maori racist.

Talk about pot meet kettle!
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June 21, 2020 8:04am
- JibberJabber
  
  Washed up low IQ racist using racism to fight racism in an effort to get back on the Public tit.
  Maybe he should stick to his knitting?
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:22am
- Komata
  
  MrT@0804
  
  I wonder how Mr Tamihere (and the likes of Hone, Tama, et al) resolves his ‘inner conflict’ about the ‘White’ (asymptomatic racist) part of his genetic make-up (From his Mother I believe).
  
  It must be very, very difficult…
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:27am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    And clearly that parent wasn’t racist or were they?
    
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    June 21, 2020 1:21pm
- Two bob
  
  you should see there demands for allocation of covid money… 25% To maori, seems they hate being over represented in stats unless its money and handouts.
  
  Will there ever be a time when no maori-pakeha crap and we’re just kiwis?
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:29am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “Will there ever be a time when no maori-pakeha crap and we’re just kiwis?”
    
    Unlikely. The divide has ramped up, especially under this government. It would take a revolution to abolish the Waitangi Tribunal, take all of the “Treaty principles” rubbish out of hundreds of laws, put a deadline on remaining Treaty settlements.
    
    So no we are going fast in the opposite direction. I was at a business meeting last week with a potential state sector client. All white people. They insisted that the meeting be closed with a Maori prayer. Or something like a prayer. They all had their heads bowed. I’m not going to pursue the opportunity. Just more trouble than it is worth.
    
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    June 21, 2020 8:55am
    - Clyde
      
      The only action to take when this racist nonsense about closing a business meeting with maori prayer is to walk out. The difficulty is that your business tends to go down the drain.
      
      I’m surprised that not much mention has been made of the TV1 report last night that this Police murderer was out of his little mind on P at the time.
      
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      June 21, 2020 9:50am
      - chukar
        
        BY and Clyde
        Common practice in local gvt where the prayer seeking guidance from God is often replaced by a wiata.
        
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        June 21, 2020 11:05am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I have no issues with observing Maori customs with Maori clients. But a room full of white people singing waiata and handing me a sheet with the lyrics? No way. And yes that has happened. It happens in Wellington every day.
        
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        June 22, 2020 8:05am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “BY and Clyde
        Common practice in local gvt where the prayer seeking guidance from God is often replaced by a wiata.”
        
        I am not interested in either. If they are Maori clients, no problem respecting their customs. With European clients no way. And if they started praying to God I’d run.
        
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        June 22, 2020 8:07am
    - Two bob
      
      they dont realise its cheap tokenism at best.
      
      I hope in another 50yrs my future grandkids will hold maori to account for the injusts theyve bought upon current generations… ironicly they will most likely claim its unfair to pay for past actions of a few.
      
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      June 21, 2020 1:16pm
  - ancient one
    
    well there was a time. The 60s
    
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    June 21, 2020 12:42pm
- Harriet
  
  “…..Māori Party co-leader John Tamihere calls Pākehā ‘asymptomatic racists’…..”
  
  Defund Maori and treat them like commonsense white taxpayers you mean?
  
  Maori soldiers make the police and gangs look stupid.
  
  Enough is enough. Vote ACT. 😎
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:46am
- Surely Knott
  
  Tamihere’s mother is scottish…. so he himself is as much Pakeha as he is Maori, although he more strongly identifies with Maori apparently, not surprisingly as there is no funding attached to identifying with the former. And second he wants 25% of all government spending to go to Maori led organisations and he just happens to be chief executive of one of these organisations. An organisation whose funding has already gone from $17 million to $50 million in the last few years. So lets say he got 16% of all funding in line with the percentage of Maori does that mean that all those who identify as Maori have to get their health care and housing through a maori owned organisations and they would not be eligible through Housing nz etc or health from their regular gp.
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:57am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Tamihere’s mother is scottish
    
    No, he describes her background as Irish Catholic.
    My well-read and educated Pākehā mother ensured, from her strong Irish background that we were schooled at Catholic schools and practised that faith
    
    https://thespinoff.co.nz/local-elections/08-10-2019/john-tamihere-my-final-pitch-to-voters/
    
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    June 21, 2020 8:08pm
    - Nickc2
      
      That further enforces my earlier comment, he is a lying bastard.
      
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      June 21, 2020 9:06pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  If you are an “asymptomatic racist” then by definition you don’t suffer due to, or exhibit any signs of racism. Doesn’t that mean you’re not racist?
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:42am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Oh no,
    it just means that you spread the nasty virus far and wide without anyone realising that you are a CARRIER…..
    
    (although I suggest my blue-eyes and lily white skin and PRIVILEGE (ex-Castlecliff) are pretty obvious tip-offs).
    
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    June 21, 2020 10:10am
    - Jimmy White
      
      Come on Maggy, we are not PRIVILEGED in Castlecliff. I only have one nanny for my three kids, the council says I can only park four of my cars on my property and (between you and me) my Chief and Gardener live in Gonville.
      
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      June 21, 2020 12:35pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Oh dear..
        haven’t you read up on your deprivation stats….
        
        The
        majority of Q5 data zones were in Whanganui, Whanganui East, Aramoho, College
        Estate and Castlecliff…..
        https://www.fmhs.auckland.ac.nz/assets/fmhs/soph/epi/hgd/docs/dhbprofiles/Whanganui.pdf
        
        In fact the place is so bloody bad, that the Authors start referring to Castlehill instead of Castlecliff!!!!
        
        Or check-out another system of Deprivation indices….Castlecliff scores the maximum – 10
        https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/nzdep2006_av-dep-scores.pdf
        
        as does my present location- Kaiti South.
        
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        June 21, 2020 3:24pm
- Nickc2
  
  He is a devious bastard. I didn’t hear him say such things when he was a member of Helen Clark’s government. He did say some other stupid things though. I can’t say them here, I will get Modded.
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:48am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I’ll write them then… he denigrated all women by referring to them as front-bums, essentially equating them and their female reproductive bits to our poo outlet.
    
    Helen was not amused.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10119834
    
    oh…. did I forget to mention his Jews and Holocaust comments…and perhaps we are meant to forget his views on ~~rapists~~ “roast busters”.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12196024
    
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    June 21, 2020 10:22am
    - Nickc2
      
      TKS Maggy. The Mods won’t dare delete your post.
      
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      June 21, 2020 10:26am
    - septic skeptic
      
      It was disappointing to say the least that this racist clown was offered up to us as the right wing alternative to Phil Goff.
      
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      June 21, 2020 12:14pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Willy and JT wanting to be together again in Parliament?
      
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      June 21, 2020 1:29pm
- niggly
  
  I actually had respect for the Māori Party of Tariana Turia, Pita Sharples and Te Ururoa Flavell.
  
  They worked hard for their constituents and showed that they could achieve good outcomes for their people by working inside the tent constructively with a major “party of difference” (National).
  
  I’m sorry to say this current Māori Party leadership iteration comes across as uniformed “trash”. From Debbie Ngarewa-Packer’s calls for “trashing” European culture (ironically she is part European), to John Tamihere’s absurd calls of racism. These turkeys come across as “negative” haters, which is the last thing this country needs.
  
  Although I understand they are simply desperate for media airtime and votes, hence the extreme language, it reflects poorly upon themselves.
  
  And their stupidity. Frankly there are only so many votes at the “radical” end of the spectrum (probably 1%, maybe 2% max) and most of that is now home to the Green Party. However the Green Party tends to be polling around /- 5% mark since election 2017 so whatever “radical” votes the new Māori Party want will be taken from the Greens.
  
  Stupidity #2 is the new Māori Party relying then on winning a Māori electoral seat. Whilst this is possible (and there are certainly a couple of places where this could happen), let’s face it this same possibility applied in 2017 BUT the Labour Party steamrolled them into oblivion instead.
  
  And it could happen again in September because not-so “radicalised” Maori may feel it is safer to vote Labour because of jobs and welfare support, as that provides them “food and shelter”, not so much “radical” posturing, hatred and division …
  
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  June 21, 2020 10:57am
Two bob

so I see the pink haired attention seeker dr wiles who repeatedly touted doom and that we werent strict enough happens to think the border breaches arent a big deal and just sound worse then they are…

id love to know her motive, promotion, is she expecting a bonus or a brownie points for a political future? (god I hope not)

who the hell gives ppl like this the time of day? Shes climbing the ranks of nzs most desperate attention seekers.
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June 21, 2020 8:08am
- Komata
  
  Twobo@0808
  
  Who gives such people the time of day?
  
  The media; they are the ones who choose and foster such individuals and all have certain favourite ‘go to’s’ / experts that are trundled out and asked to ‘learnedly-pontificate’ when required; individuals who will then, after due payment, vanish back to whence they came and not be heard-from again until the next time they are required.
  
  The phrase ‘Performing Seals’ does seem to be an apt descriptive for such individuals…
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:31am
  - hullkiwi
    
    What, people like Ayessha Verral?
    
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    June 21, 2020 9:19am
  - Sacha
    
    @ Komata: You do, by commenting here. Once on the Internet . . . . . .
    
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    June 21, 2020 11:26am
- cmm
  
  Remember scientists have mortgages and egos too.
  
  The organisations that these people belong to get government (taxpayer) funding.
  
  Thus, to keep getting the funding they must continue to be seen by the government and also must be seen to be “useful” to the government.
  
  Further, careers need to be built in environments which are hostile to dissent.
  
  Anyone that thinks that scientists just follow the data and the scientific method is a fool. That does not happen.
  
  They adjust what they say so as to not offend the hand that feeds them and instead say the things that will help get funding and attention. They don’t want to be attacked by the pack.
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:27am
  - Pharmachick
    
    In my field, if you don’t follow the data and just make sh*t up so as not to offend the hand that feeds, people die. So yeah, we just want funding and attention. Remember that next time you or someone you love takes some ibuprofen or Gleevec.
    
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    June 21, 2020 10:06am
    - Phronesis
      
      People do die, Vioxx was a classic case, but there are plenty of lesser known cases where drugs are probably of minimal benefit or even harm to the consumer. This happens despite drug companies being obliged to spend hundreds of millions of dollars attempting to validate drug benefits through extensive clinical trials.
      The lack of faith in publicly funded science has got to the point that smart drug companies are redoing all of the basic science from scratch before even considering shelling out for the clinical trials. Most of the time they are unable to replicate the relevant results published by University scientists in peer reviewed journals.
      
      https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/01/rigorous-replication-effort-succeeds-just-two-five-cancer-papers
      
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      June 21, 2020 12:27pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        The manufacturers of Vioxx lied. They knew there were safety signals around cardiovascular events and they had their statisticians analyze the data so as to minimize the cardiac events/signal. It cost Merck nearly $5 Billion although they made a “no fault” payout settlement. Again – somebody lied, somebody died.
        
        Similarly, Thalidomide – Chemi-Grunenthal gave it to their own employees in the late 50s. The evidence that they knew about the birth defects or at least some forms of teratogenesis were discovered in a file-dump about 5 years ago (they were literally files, from an old filing cabinet in Germany).
        
        I am not denying the replication problem – but that is not [always] due to lying. Sometimes it is – the pressure to publish/get the next grant etc causes people to do some strange (and unethical) things. More often, replication problems are due to a lack of standardization between labs – even different buffers and additives can cause lack of replication.
        
        Yes, some drugs come to market with minimal efficacy benefit. That is the fault of FDA/EMA and the people on their evaluation panels etc approving drugs for which the study design was deficient (often due to surrogate rather than direct markers of efficacy being permitted) and evidence was not strong. The world desperately needs more Frances Oldham Kelseys.
        
        Drug companies don’t repeat basic science just because it wasn’t done in-house. They don’t have the bandwidth. Sometimes they get somebody like me to do it if they’re really concerned, and its cheaper to pay an academic for a grad student or post doc salary plus some reagents than an industry scientist salary. Often though, they go straight into the animal studies and safety pharmacology/toxicology then humans. Efficacy in an animal model is far superior to plinking around with test tubes “proving” the mechanism of action with recombinant proteins and cell lines.
        
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        June 21, 2020 1:37pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  Perhaps she is wanting to be on the Labour Party list.
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:37am
MT_Tinman

I’ve been reading around the traps as is my wont.

Not a single story of National calling out the virus lies recently uncovered.

Mr Seymour needs to get a cattleprod working on his Opposition.
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June 21, 2020 8:08am
- Wayne Mapp
  
  MT
  You clearly don’t see or hear the news. Michael Woodhouse has been all over the issue. And Todd Muller has had lots of coverage over the last few days.
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:24am
  - MT_Tinman
    
    Wayne, you clearly don’t read.
    
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    June 21, 2020 8:27am
  - Two bob
    
    ive seen a few nat mps but not muller, short appearances by muller wont cut it.
    
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    June 21, 2020 8:32am
- G152
  
  Not politically expedient for our fake news to actually report anything from the Opposition.
  Hopefully when the voting public have their say the fake news will be shut down and all their pretty faces seen in the unemployment queues
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:26am
  - Nickc2
    
    Are you calling the Bradford brat pretty G152? You need a Specsavers.
    
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    June 21, 2020 9:57am
- Simon
  
  Massive cyber attacks against Australia by the CCP. What has National done holding the government here to account to protect NZ from attacks from China?
  
  It’s a bit awkward that CCP are National’s biggest donors but still
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:48am
  - rockape
    
    That is not true. National get there biggest donation from NZ farmers and business. This year donations should go through the roof due to the shambles that is the COL
    
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    June 21, 2020 9:44am
  - Nickc2
    
    Complete bollocks Simon! Emotion is not proof.
    
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    June 21, 2020 9:59am
  - chaos
    
    Was New Zealand recently attacked by China, no, so nothing to hold the government to account for. And no jami china isn’t nationals biggest donors, time you get over yourself and turn all your Chinese made products off, throw them away, and get ready for unemployment
    
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    June 21, 2020 10:18am
  - Jimmy White
    
    Cindy has made a Captains call and has decreed that all Gov. Departments must pull their computer’s plug from the wall socket. Problem Fixed.
    
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    June 21, 2020 12:40pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s media practice to give Seymour’s messages but not the others. That makes them look bad by comparison–nothing happening/incompetent/careless…
  
  It’s a bit like the defunding going on elsewhere. What happens if this perversely continues throughout the election. The media do have unreasonable power not to give a fair coverage and ignore those they prefer not to promote directly or indirectly.
  This is going to be a very dirty season.
  ☑️☑️Time for the rout☑️☑️
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:53am
artemisia

Solstice – the word comes from Latin meaning the sun standing still. Not for long though.
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June 21, 2020 8:09am
- kowtow
  
  Romans had slaves . Ban the sun.
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:26am
- Pharmachick
  
  This is part of the genuine attraction of KB … I did not know that, and I love random facts! Thx artemisia
  
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  June 21, 2020 12:45pm
I remember when

Everyone wants to be able to travel somewhere to show the benefits we are getting from being covid free (mainly).
The Government had set their sights on Australia being the place most suitable for our first destination without restrictions. Unfortunately, the continuing existence of cases there is making the time-frame stretch out further into the distance.
Winston is getting desperate as the election approaches so reluctantly is having to settle on the Pacific Islands and perhaps Asia.
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June 21, 2020 8:09am
- Two bob
  
  my mates over in aussie and rang me all excited, a couple of news outlets there portrayed jacinda as hero to zero… he was disapointed to be told no chance of her head rolling, or anyones head for that matter
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:34am
- fernglas
  
  The only benefit of being Covid free is that we are effectively imprisoning ourselves. The fact that so few people in this country have realised the complete stupidity of the elimination policy is a tribute to the fear instilled by media, government and healthcare professionals. That there could be so much fuss over the inevitable arrival of more cases into the country is a testament to the level of hysteria that will keep us isolated, trapped and alone. Well done, team of 5 million. You’ve handed your freedom over , andyou’ve done it freely.
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:53am
  - MCos
    
    I have an elderly and not without health issues, Facebook friend in Yorkshire who has been confined to her house for three months.
    Yesterday at last she ventured out for a day’s shopping and it was similar to Level 2 here. Queues waiting to get into shops, masks everywhere, social distancing on the buses.
    You think we don’t have freedom?
    
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    June 21, 2020 9:39am
  - Scooter
    
    I’ve been wondering how long NZers will cotton on to the fact that if they want to remain coronavirus free then they will have to be cut off from the rest of the world ie no more travel in or out ie no economy. NZ is a very small fish in a big ocean and unless JA starts opening the borders its f#%@
    
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    June 21, 2020 9:42am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Yeah, but Pitcairn Islanders manage with 3 boat visits/year….
      
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      June 21, 2020 10:25am
      - Two bob
        
        their islands arent full of fuckwits tho so much easier to tolerate.
        
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        June 21, 2020 1:23pm
      - kowtow
        
        Yeah but their past times would make Epstein blush.
        
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        June 21, 2020 5:54pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Yea, their barcodes are easy to track, their sir-names are all Christian.
        
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        June 21, 2020 8:59pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Aussie States have their own rules too.
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:54am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    it is just a complete shambles.
    South Australia is taliking tough, build a wall with Victoria.
    Infections jave risen in Victoria, but in fairness most of the Internationals for South Australia come through Victoria. Victoria quarantine is free, SA they pay $2,500.
    Where I am had one case which was from interstate over two months ago and we are still in lock down and going back in.
    Borders I think will open, but it will be after the school holidays, I have a flight booked Melb/Cairns mid July but only the premiers will decide if these flights come realisation.
    overseas travel looks October at the earliest.
    Wierdly, cruises look like being back in full swing in the Kimberley in July, even though government mid september.
    Notice FC selling cruises from NZ August 23 4 days on sea princess to Sydney no other stops.
    September the Pacific Aria is doing 4 cruises out of Auckland.
    this on the P&O website
    Nz will open cruising beore Australia except the Kimberley and murray river.
    “In response to continuing travel restrictions due to the impact of COVID-19, we have implemented a temporary pause of our operations for sailings to September 17, 2020 in Australia and until August 31, 2020 in New Zealand.”
    
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    June 21, 2020 9:38am
- DeepBlue
  
  Jacinda switching to ‘elimination’ from ‘flatten the curve’ was a huge political misstep. She took society to the highest levels of achievement and pride and now there is nowhere to go but down with a thump.
  
  Had she stuck with ‘flatten the curve’ society could have accepted cases, just as we accept people do get measles and most recover.
  
  BTW, the Herald has many opinion pieces behind paywall against Jacinda’s leadership and COVID response. Won’t be long before they creep into free reads.
  
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  June 21, 2020 11:10am
artemisia

Maori Party’s flagship policy is out. More money and more control please. OK, not so much ‘please’, more like demand. And a lot of the reason given is Maori unemployment.

The recent and very good Stuff series Deep Trouble reports Maori are being laid off at 4 x the rate of Europeans. That is a big problem and a massive difference but why? Maybe the ‘why’ is the problem and also the answer. But who is asking?
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June 21, 2020 8:10am
- kowtow
  
  Asking is racism. Ban asking.Ban debate.
  
  But keep working honkey , the woke want your money …..and your place in the surgery queue. And that’s just for starters.
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:30am
- Two bob
  
  as usual the blame will be on everyone else or pakeha, they need to look in the mirror and see where the problem lies.
  
  if you take up a low value job then youll always be first to go. I see the problem all the time when maori choose the steady figure over a bit of risk and responsibility which would equal better pay.
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:41am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    There is also the simple fact that Maori labourers don’t take up such positions as law clerks or tax auditors because they require higher smarts than many of them possess. There is a genetic component to innate ability. You can train a mule for what your worth but it will never turn into a horse.
    
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    June 21, 2020 12:58pm
    - Two bob
      
      even higher ranks/ supervisor roles in their current labour roles they hesitate (some not all) but I was more refering to self employment type thing, many wont take the gamble unless they use someone elses money via grants etc Maori party 25% demands are good example of this along with the other 900 odd million govt alocated them in the budget.
      unless its a gravy train many maori will stick to their steady income low paying jobs.
      
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      June 21, 2020 1:30pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Are Maori being laid off at 4 times the rate as other ethnicities in the same industries? That would be surprising. If it is across the economy, not so much.
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:42am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Source: Stuffed.
    
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    June 21, 2020 12:58pm
- 3-coil
  
  artemisia – maori party co-leader Deborah Ngarewa-Packer was less worried about Maori unemployment, and more about “shaking the rednecks” at the policy launch. Her toxic hatred of white folk (in her vocabulary pakeha and redneck are interchangeable) drives her political ambitions. Yet another lazy racist wannabe maori leader – she’s not interested in bettering her people, just milking the system for her own benefit. And her hysterical fomenting of racist hatred is the only way she knows.
  Edit: note too the veiled threats of physical violence to white people (rednecks) in all her diatribes – a peep at that elephant in the room, the role of Maori women in helping keep maori violence stats at 4 x non-maori.
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:57am
- Loddenthinks
  
  We all know who’s asking – nobody. Yet the constant angst and gnashing of teeth at “inequity of outcomes” in all the important metrics – crime, health, employment, life expectancy, literacy etc – fails to ask this simple and obvious question.
  
  Instead, it’s attributed to systemic racism, colonialism, a racist health system, your great-great-grandfather getting the strap for speaking maori, and did I mention racism?
  
  The only solution to these problems afflicting poor maori seems to be to develop ever-more racially separatist policies, unequal (and incredibly favourable) treatment for maori, in defiance of the Treaty guarantee that “we are all one people” and to throw billions of dollars. Not at the problem, but at the Knights of the Brown Table who have become expert at playing the victim card and appealing to the white guilt of liberals anxious to be thought well of.
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:59am
  - kowtow
    
    The criteria used to be “equality of opportunity” but sometime in the last 3 decades the goal posts were moved and it’s now “equality of outcome”, or as WSC put it , the equal sharing of misery.
    
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    June 21, 2020 9:14am
    - artemisia
      
      We now have inequality of opportunity, as opportunities are enhanced for one ethnicity in the form of lower standards, more money, more support.
      
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      June 21, 2020 9:29am
    - Two bob
      
      Socialists still havent worked out that equal outcome or equal opportunity are equally intertwined and if you advance one then the other declines by the same amount.
      
      A true freemarket society is the only way to achieve the best balance but that will NEVER happen so all we do is repeat and inflate the current system failures.
      
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      June 21, 2020 1:38pm
- JackRabbit
  
  It is usual that the lazy and low producers get laid off first, and that’s not based on race or being racist, but that’s how it will be viewed. It is standard to blame Maori issues on racism.
  
  It is not the colour of his skin or the fact that he/she is in a population group called ‘Maori’ that is the problem.
  
  It is the fact that he/she has put themselves in a population group called ‘lazy and unproductive’, which encompasses both ‘white’ and ‘Maori’. Maori are over represented in the ‘lazy and unproductive’ group for a number of reasons.
  
  1) They are continually told that their failures are caused by colonialism, not by their own failures to advance themselves and become of value.
  
  2) They are continually told that NZ was theirs, because they were the ‘first settlers’, totally ignoring the fact that NZ has been inhabited for thousands of years, and that they are but one of many races that have lived here.
  
  3) They are not accepting that Maori society was essentially barbaric and cannibalistic.
  
  4) That while the treaty has put an end to barbarism and cannibalistic, that Maori need to continue the progress by accepting civilised law and order, and embrace the opportunities that brings.
  
  5) They do not acknowledge that Maori as we know it today, were the last race that settled here before the colonists, and who overthrew the ‘indigenous’ or previously settled races that lived here before. And that Maori, are no more indigenous than ‘white’ man.
  
  6) That Maori, as the incoming colonists, had no respect for the existing inhabitants, and overthrew the previous race(s) by slavery, killing, raping and eating these races.
  
  7) That ‘white’ man had civilised respect, and sought to live here peacefully, by means of a peace and treaty. And that the treaty was embraced by those wise Maori who wanted an end to the barbaric way of life.
  8) They are not taught that to get ahead means hard work and becoming of value. They are taught that their poverty is ‘whitemans’ fault.
  
  9) That Maori gangs and violence, and the holding of resentment of ‘whitey’, is a down spiralling regression back to a barbaric and uncivilised way of living without rules.
  
  10) That had ‘whiteman’ chosen to assert the right to live in NZ in the same manner that Maori did, that Maori would have gone the way of the Mao or Moriori – mercilessly wiped out. That ‘whiteman’ chose NOT to do this, speaks highly of ‘whiteman’ having more civility and empathy.
  
  11) That rather than being grateful for ‘whiteman’ sparing their lives and culture, they have been ungrateful for having an end put to their barbarism and cannibalistic way of life.
  
  12) That rather than being grateful for the civilised way of life and opportunities ‘whiteman’ bought with him, they are ungrateful about what they don’t have, despite the fact that without ‘whiteman’ arriving, they would never know what it is they claim they are being deprived of.
  
  13) They do not acknowledge that without ‘whiteman’ there would be no money system, no guns, no cars, no TV, no Lion Brown, no shoes for their children, and many of the things they claimed they are being deprived of because of ‘whiteman’.
  
  14) They did not plant and harvest the land, as did their farming predecessors. They did not value the land, and use it productively, yet claim that because of the land being sold, they are deprived of that right. It is of note that most land that was sold, and due to a history of repeated reparations, most land has been sold by Maori, and then re-gifted back to Maori only to be sold again, several times over. It is no co-incidence that Ngai Tahu, who has DNA in common with Moriori, have farmed both the land and the sea and made the most of reparations.
  
  15) The problem is not one of racism, The problem is a battle between those that are productive and civilised and those that want to return to a tribal life and/or who have succumbed to being lazy because they believe ‘whiteman’ took away all their opportunities. Opportunities that ‘whiteman’ made possible in the first place.
  
  16) The real racists are those that cry racist. They are the same people that are not telling individual Maori to get off their butt and become productive law abiding citizens, and to uphold the law, not make a mockery of it or tear it down with illegal roadblocks.
  
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  June 21, 2020 11:15am
  - Two bob
    
    Short version and to the point, constant victimization by their own ppl is the root cause. I totally agree, if something is repeated enough its easily believed and even easier to use it for blame.
    
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    June 21, 2020 1:48pm
    - artemisia
      
      And looking at bloodlines most who identify as Maori could equally (or more) identify as some other ethnicity. Though that would be less lucrative.
      
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      June 21, 2020 2:14pm
Jacinda Ardhern

I wonder of Jacinda’s popularity is coming down as fast as teddy bears did in my neighbourhood windows?
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June 21, 2020 8:16am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Not according to the latest poll, which has led to the coining of possibly the most ludicrously immature memes in publishing history.
  
  Muller-meh-tum? Jesus wept.
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:04am
  - DeepBlue
    
    This latest on-line, opt-in poll was pre ‘bordergate’ , that’s why it was released in a hurry , trying to keep good news up.
    
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    June 21, 2020 11:14am
- chaos
  
  Their internal poll is show she is dropping like a leader holding up dead fish in the house
  
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  June 21, 2020 10:22am
dave_c_

I’m flabbergasted !
Quote by Bloomfield :
” He said there was not a risk of infection of Covid-19 from a fleetingly interaction or walking past someone with it.”
So, the hens are coming home to roost – perhaps, finallly, the truth is being inadvertently released – Why, then did we have to socially distance, we queued at the supermarket etc etc
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June 21, 2020 8:16am
- kowtow
  
  Same guy said Maoris could decide for themselves whether to hongi or not , but honki could go to pokey for shaking hands .
  Something doesn’t add up.
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:54am
  - cmm
    
    Well Bloomfield was also the same guy that said scoring Tinder dates with random people was a personal choice.
    
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    June 21, 2020 9:30am
- Two bob
  
  If we had a full on 2nd wave he would revert back to telling us its damn near airbourne and cant go outside.
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:16am
- Durden
  
  So a fake excuse of providing space for distancing was used by Julie Anne Genter of the Greens who then cynically used emergency powers to widen footpaths. As though people are that stupid not too note her/Greens deviousness. FFS.
  
  Temporary they said? Yeah right.
  
  The selfish duplicitous gunts should be kicked out of the government…Oz federal election style.
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:19am
  - Okahu
    
    One moment the zeitgeist here is that the Coalition is as incompetent as it is deluded, (profoundly, apparently). Ok, yet it has with a single, simple motion taken steps to reverse the 100 year long ownership of the city centre streets by those with cars. I mean credit where it’s due. That was deft.
    
    Just watch what will be achieved (by the Greens no less) without Winston First hauling on the handbrake. This blog really ought be fighting Winston’s corner under the motto “Fuck! He’s all that can stop them now!”
    
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    June 21, 2020 6:13pm
    - Durden
      
      Only an dyed in the wool underhand cyclist or a green gunt accepts such underhand opportunistic action decision on the public with no consultation. Not sure you will be so sanguine if the boot is on the other foot. With you attitude and low expectations of elected politicians–don’t worry it will happen.
      
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      June 22, 2020 12:34pm
- artemisia
  
  Dr Bloomfield clearly did not tell NZTA Waka Kotahi, which allocated vast amounts of taxpayer money for councils to put up temporary barriers so pedestrians and cyclists could stay at appropriate distances. Removing hundreds of car parks, no hidden agenda then.
  
  Wellington City Council sensibly decided it was not necessary at Level 1, but still plans to make similar if not identical changes. (No hidden agenda then.)
  
  Other councils – who knows, but think I read that Auckland has taken the taxpayer money anyway.
  
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  June 21, 2020 10:00am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  a comparison
  Covid 19 app in Australia.
  It is only triggered to record if you are in closer contact than 1.5 metres for 15 minutes.
  So it leaves the door right open.
  Does this mean you can kiss and cuddle for 14 minutes and it is fine.
  The app is useless on iphones unless you permanently unlock the phone.
  https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jun/17/covid-safe-app-australia-covidsafe-contact-tracing-australian-government-covid19-tracking-problems-working
  Again different states treat distance rules differently, it is the blind leading the blind.
  But in fairness, Bloomfield appears to have a little more common sense that the Aussie state health chiefs, they are completly bereft of any normal life experience or logic from my observations.
  You would also wonder if the likes of “Dooner Dan” and Jacinda don’t show some interference in these health decisions, maybe I am wrong, but seems that way.
  
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  June 21, 2020 10:03am
- Ruahine
  
  It is a very clever virus. Clever enough to not infect supermarket workers over a period of over a month but will immediately infect you if you go to a butcher shop.
  
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  June 21, 2020 10:54am
- Prince
  
  Exactly, remember those cartoons of someone coughing in a supermarket and infecting the entire shop ?
  But now apparently that is bullshit because it doesn’t suit his narrative about the sisters.
  
  Linda Clark (remember her from the Helen Clark cherrleader squad ?) was on the wireless this morning lying about Michael Woodhouse. She claimed he ‘knew for days’ about the sisters’ contact, and put the lives of everyone at risk by not advising MoH. Of course no one questioned her about this.
  Fact is Woodhouse knew for 6 hours, having confirmed the story, about the contact before raising it in Parliament, and the MoH already knew about it but was trying to keep it quiet. If it wasn’t for Woodhouse it would still be a secret.
  
  You simply can’t believe a word these ‘Opinion Leaders’ say.
  
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  June 21, 2020 11:00am
  - lifesgood
    
    I heard her and was disgusted. Man, talk about showing your political bias. She was absolutely nasty and quite slanderous. I hope Woodhouse heard it and makes an appropriate reply.
    
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    June 21, 2020 2:06pm
    - Durden
      
      Lawyers can be reported for obvious lying ?
      
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      June 21, 2020 4:52pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep,
    I heard that Linda Clark comment.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018751556/the-panel-with-linda-clark-and-richard-harman
    (15:15-15:20)
    
    I gather she is now a top-end lawyer…such a pity she doesn’t know how to check her facts before spouting bullshit on public radio.
    
    The Women’s tests only came back positive on Monday..
    Woodhouse received information on Tuesday Night about the females meeting friends. He spent Wednesday morning trying to verify the information.
    
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/06/covid-19-national-mp-michael-woodhouse-simply-rejects-withholding-information-about-infected-women.html
    
    So No, he couldn’t have sat on the information for days.
    
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    June 21, 2020 2:58pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      I should have read your comment first, Maggy.
      
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      June 21, 2020 3:50pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Fact is Woodhouse knew for 6 hours, […].
    
    You obviously didn’t watch the “Nation” on TV3. Woodhouse knew about it on Tuesday night, i.e., for about 18-20 hours before QT on Wednesday.
    
    He defended his actions, saying, by doing what he did (rather than having a quiet word with the Minister, or whoever), he ensured that word got out much more quickly than otherwise. I couldn’t help but agree with him.
    
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    June 21, 2020 3:47pm
    - Prince
      
      He heard about it Tuesday night, he verified it Wednesday morning, about 6 hours (possibly less) before raising it in Parliament.
      Meanwhile the Dept of Health knew about the contact for days. Exactly who they told will be a secret forever, but they, Bloomfield and Ardern all claimed there was no contact right up to Woodhouse’s revelation. And even the they denied it for 5 hours before issuing a sheepish press release.
      
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      June 22, 2020 8:09am
- DeepBlue
  
  Jacinda switching to ‘elimination’ from ‘flatten the curve’ was a huge political misstep. She took society to the highest levels of achievement and pride and now there is nowhere to go but down with a thump.
  
  Had she stuck with ‘flatten the curve’ society could have accepted cases, just as we accept people do get measles and most recover.
  
  BTW, the Herald has many opinion pieces behind paywall against Jacinda’s leadership and COVID response. Won’t be long before they creep into free reads.
  
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  June 21, 2020 11:15am
  - Akarak
    
    But the free reads are for the masses. Important things like baking crap birthday cakes. SNAFU!
    
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    June 21, 2020 1:28pm
  - Faroffsound
    
    “BTW, the Herald has many opinion pieces behind paywall against Jacinda’s leadership and COVID response. Won’t be long before they creep into free reads.”
    
    Good – it’s about time for a critical appraisal of Jacinda’s “leadership” and the COVID response before she is voted in again for another three years.
    
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    June 21, 2020 1:56pm
- JackRabbit
  
  The lockdown was a political move, not a medical move.
  
  They knew about the potential Covid-19 last year, which is why Robberson borrowed 19Bn at the end of November.
  
  The narrative was always about political moves, and behind that, money. They played the public like the Pied Piper.
  
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  June 21, 2020 11:19am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Bloomfield’s obviously no microbiologist. Any live pesky micro object is a biological hazard: AKA germs.
  
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  June 21, 2020 1:02pm
lazza

Our useless government had a bad week. Outlook ….worse to come.
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June 21, 2020 8:18am
Simon

12 stabbed with 3 dead. Reading UK. Almost one hour ago. Nothing on BBC or guardian yet. Must be one of those peaceful stabbings.
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June 21, 2020 8:19am
- Tony Stuart
  
  This, on Twitter:
  
  London Streets
  @LondonStreets3
  ·
  21m
  BREAKING NEWS: Three people have died and two are in critical care in hospital tonight following a stabbing in Reading.
  
  Police are understood to be treating the incident as a random attack and are not sure who is responsible
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:49am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Not good news, but Saturday night in Reading is dangerous most of the time.
    
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    June 21, 2020 9:42am
- kowtow
  
  Every weekend the shootings in Dem run , gun controlled Chicago would put Mogadishu to shame ( not to mention give the BLM far left mob conniptions if they really did care about an exclusive club of certain victims of violent crime).
  
  But the activist Media Party , ho hum ,diddle dum , nothing to see here .
  
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  June 21, 2020 8:58am
  - SB2
    
    kowtow, your usual kind of misinformation!
    
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    June 21, 2020 1:43pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Something on BBC now
  
  The Home Secretary is “deeply concerned”…
  https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-berkshire-53123975
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:27am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Boris has also commented:
    
    Boris Johnson #StayAlert
    @BorisJohnson
    My thoughts are with all of those affected by the appalling incident in Reading and my thanks to the emergency services on the scene.
    
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    June 21, 2020 9:30am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Finally, at 11:25 am, Stuff has bothered to mention the terrorist attack in Reading.
    
    Mind you they had far more important matters to report first, such as the article 15 minutes earlier about the Prime Minister of New Zealand revealing her daughter’s birthday cake.
    
    Or the one about using online dating services to find a pet. These are articles under “Latest Breaking News” I kid you not.
    
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    June 21, 2020 11:29am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Police are treating it as “a terror incident” so my guess is that some poor Middle Eastern bloke was wandering around looking for “the largest snackbar” and somebody tragically misheard him.
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:56am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    The murderer is a 25 year old Libyan man apparently.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/20/reading-stabbing-three-dead-two-hospital-attack-forbury-gardens/
    
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    June 21, 2020 12:48pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Paywalled and couldn’t be bothered signing up for the free week, however it appears by an astonishing fluke I’ve managed to describe the person quite accurately.
      
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      June 21, 2020 3:17pm
      - GJM
        
        Another Hawaiian confectionery enthusiast, tragically misunderstood. Aloha Snackbar!
        
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        June 21, 2020 9:39pm
Left Right and Centre

I feel very sorry for these trapped mosque shooting families. One family of six (not named) are stuck in Turkey. They were stopped there on their way to visit family in Jordon. Part of the trip was to seek a second opinion about treatment for bullet wounds.

So – they had the money for a family of six to travel overseas to visit family and a second country for doctors. NZ health system not good enough for them?

Another family of five – the Boztas – are also stuck in Turkey. Their trip was meant to be 3 months.

Are people meant to feel sorry for other people who are able to afford to fly off for three month trips? And stuck due to border restrictions?
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June 21, 2020 8:21am
- Two bob
  
  guess whos going to pay for them to get back here…
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:03am
- Albert_Ross
  
  What a nasty post. Why would we not feel sorry for a family that has been the victim of a horrible crime and is now trapped somewhere they don’t want to be due to no fault of their own? Being well-off doesn’t make getting shot any less painful. And these people are no less entitled than anybody else to spend their money as they see fit.
  
  Plenty of people have private health insurance. Are they all to be similarly blamed for thinking the NZ health service not good enough for them? In this particular case, there are doctors overseas who have much more experience in dealing with gun shot wounds than NZ doctors do, which reflects well for the most part on NZ but which also makes it not wholly unreasonable to seek advice from non-NZ doctors.
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:13am
  - Mike
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Gosh, a nasty comment on Kiwiblog. Who would have thought?
    
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    June 21, 2020 9:34am
    - Gravelroad
      
      I’ve seen a quite a few nasty, put-down , disparaging comments from Mike (and various other forms of “Mike”) on here over the years.
      Not you Mike?
      
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      June 21, 2020 10:09am
      - SB2
        
        Gravelroad, what about you?
        
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        June 21, 2020 1:45pm
    - Swifty
      
      Says the master….
      
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      June 21, 2020 12:28pm
- cmm
  
  Some of the best bullet wound doctors are ex-South Africans now living in NZ.
  
  I know one (I won’t say where) who spent years working in Baragwanath Hospital (Soweto) who’d do multiple bullet surgeries a week.
  
  So why would you need to go to a stan country to get someone to look at your bullet holes? More likely there’s more to this story than that.
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:35am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    I have no doubt there is more to the story. But that is true of any story in the news.
    
    Let’s stipulate that they had other reasons, as well as consulting a gun shot wound specialist, for travelling from New Zealand to the Middle East. In fact, let’s stipulate that it wasn’t for that reason at all. So what? Plenty of people had all sorts of travel plans before the lockdown kicked in, and many of those had those plans ruined by the lockdown. Are we entitled to know their reasons for travel in every case before deciding whether they deserve our sympathy over their plight? Just as we appear to be entitled to take a victim’s wealth into account in deciding whether we care about their being shot?
    
    Now obviously none of us is expected to plunge into grief every time anybody we don’t know suffers harm, otherwise we’d all spend our entire lives prostrate with tears and wailing.
    
    But actively singling out a suffering family as particularly unworthy, because they are wealthy and because they’ve made a completely legal decision for their own private reasons – that’s mean and low. In fact it makes me wonder whether there might be some other factor motivating the original comment. What could that be?
    
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    June 21, 2020 10:52am
  - JackRabbit
    
    I agree cmm. There is more to the story.
    
    And: “Part of the trip was to seek a second opinion about treatment for bullet wounds.” – What a total load of crap.
    
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    June 21, 2020 11:35am
  - Sacha
    
    @ cmm: maybe they have family who paid for their trip to go back home – maybe one of their family is an expert on trauma/gunshot wounds?
    Maybe they are just desperately homesick and needed to be in a familiar culture with their extended family for a while? Even though they were settled here?
    Who knows?
    And ‘stan countries’ may well have experts in areas which we in NZ do not have everyday need for, such as multiple gunshot wounds.
    And Ireland had some very handy organ transplant surgeons due to the availability of donors . . . . .
    
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    June 21, 2020 11:53am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      I thought some of the money raised for the victims was used.
      
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      June 21, 2020 2:44pm
    - oldfella
      
      In this case ACC would cover gunshot surgeries performed in NZ. So I wonder if they’ve also paid for this trip to seek specialist overseas treatment which they do from time to time. No axe to grind, just curious.
      
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      June 21, 2020 5:12pm
  - SB2
    
    cmm,
    
    “Some of the best bullet wound doctors are ex-South Africans now living in NZ.”
    
    Better deployed in the US or Mexico , surely?
    
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    June 21, 2020 1:47pm
  - Two bob
    
    nz has showed them alot of compassion and spent alot of $$$ on them.
    
    I view this as ungratefullness, if theyre unhappy with nz or our healthcare they are free to go back to home countries and stay there. (Not being racist but just sayn)
    
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    June 21, 2020 1:56pm
- MCos
  
  My wife is Thai.
  She’d far rather go to Thailand for dental work or other medical work for that matter, because she feels more comfortable communicating in her own language.
  For me – vice versa. I had a DVT over there. Next minute the baht was flying out the window because I struggled with the local system in a way that wouldn’t have happened here.
  
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  June 21, 2020 10:23am
- Batman
  
  I’m sure if they were white folks you post would be about the terrible state of our health system forcing them to seek help overseas.
  
  Your subtle racism is showing.
  
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  June 21, 2020 1:32pm
oldpark

Some things will never change . After reading a top Editorial in Sunday Star Times by Tracy Watkins.
I thought at last that once waste of space newspaper had finally decided to tell both sides of a story . This one about the massive betrayal by the Coronavirus Quarantine and their so called “System” of testing .
Yes that “System” that Auntie Cindy Ardern control freak blamed . Even though she was in charge of the “System ” Yes the one that betrayed Five Million NZs and destroyed their “Trust” that all testing was under control .
Sadly the same Newspaper which printed one of their better Editorials by Tracy Watkins was virtually kneecapped by some type of “Cartoonist” Moron blaming National Party for the blatant release of the two unsuspecting women without testing .
Sunday Star Times must be desperate to lose whatever buyers of their Newspapers if a “Moron” like their so called “Cartoonist” remains on their Payroll . Tracy Watkins with work colleagues like the mentioned “Moron Cartoonist” sad to say you have to come to terms with the enemy within ,or you won’t even have a job. Just saying.
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June 21, 2020 8:24am
- Albert_Ross
  
  How exactly are the two women “unsuspecting”? Are they supposed to have thought they had been tested, perhaps while they were asleep? Are they supposed to have thought they couldn’t possibly have the virus despite having come here from the UK and not having completed their quarantine, during which apparently new arrivals mix freely with those who have been there longer? Why did they make obviously false claims if they had no idea that they’d done anything untoward?
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:02am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    I’m sure you’d also say it’s fine for them to travel to Jordan for a second opinion… or are they the wrong skin tone to attract your empathy, Albert-o?
    
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    June 21, 2020 9:45am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      I’ve no idea what their skin tone is. But of course I wouldn’t have had any objection to any travel plans they might have had that were compliant with any requirements in place in their destination country.
      
      In the completely different position that they were in fact in, these two women were entitled to every courtesy and, as recently bereaved people, sympathy. But they should not have been allowed out of quarantine, without being tested, to undertake an unsupervised lengthy car journey during which they were expected to have no contact with any other person or thing that any other person might touch.
      
      That they were allowed, is the fault of the person who allowed them (and we still don’t know who that was, and what their remit was, and what controls were in place).
      
      That they did as they were allowed, and also that they did a few things (that we know of) that they weren’t allowed, despite being a risk to others – that’s on them. Being allowed to do something, doesn’t require you to do it or absolve you of any responsibility for choosing to do it or the way that you do it.
      
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      June 21, 2020 10:31am
  - oldpark
    
    The women could have asked you .Albert. You seem to be an authority on everything Give them a call and introduce yourself . They will be soooo glad you did .WTH.
    
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    June 21, 2020 10:12am
  - oldpark
    
    Albert yes the only ones who were asleep were the testers . Yes lest you forget . The ones who “Auntie Cindy Ardern control freak” was in charge of . What part of that even for you Albert don’t you understand. Wakey !Wakey!. Only a misguided Labour Party sycophant would defend the indefensible .
    
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    June 21, 2020 11:52am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Eh? I’ve given my opinion on a couple of matters where I have no particular authority or expertise, and which are not in fact any of my business.
      
      Isn’t that what we are all here to do? What exactly do you think is the purpose of this blog?
      
      Yes, the women should have been tested, and our so-called quarantine system has once again been shown up as a risible clusterfuck which has not been adequately explained and for which nobody is being held responsible. I said that very clearly.
      
      But that doesn’t make the women helpless victims. They too could have made different choices in the light of the information available to them, choices which would not have imperilled the rest of us – who did not get any say in the matter.
      
      Seems you think differently, so tell us. If these women were “unsuspecting”, what is it exactly that they did not and could not have suspected?
      
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      June 21, 2020 1:44pm
- kwkiwigirl
  
  These media outlets always wheel out the Helen Clark fan girl, Watkins, when they need a piece seemingly to criticise Ardern and her team. So as to balance up the number of ‘left vs right’ articles and try and look objective. Yeah right.
  
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  June 21, 2020 2:48pm
Harriet

“….All this economic destruction and misery. All these Democratic governors and mayors punishing churchgoers and simple mom-and-pop businesses, while cheering on the destruction of their constituents’ properties and the outrageous violence against Republicans. All the credentialed press trying to make sure the average person suffers like never before, while standing in solidarity with thieves in the night, revolutionaries tearing down monuments and rewriting history, and anarchists high on national devastation. The Democrats and activist media believe they’ve surely got President Trump right where they want him this time around because they still believe we’re too dumb to know what they’re doing.
When the Trump campaign announced that its first rally in three months would be held in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and a million people signed up to attend, did it seem as though the Democrats had finally succeeded in choking off the president’s support?
The economy will soon rebound. American optimism will rise again. And Trump rallies will return as the hottest tickets in town. The Democrats and the press, however, have no idea what storm awaits them in November. They learned nothing from their machinations in 2016. They know just as little now. All their misery-making and civil incitements today have succeeded only in getting ordinary Americans’ blood boiling. And we mean to have payback this November 3….”

Real Lives Matter Most. 😎
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June 21, 2020 8:27am
- Batman
  
  Well well well, what do we have here?
  
  A mostly empty venue and an almost entirely empty overflow area at the Trump rally?
  
  Turns out his supporters are smarter than his campaign team. Or that the teenagers of America have superbly trolled the campaign with a million fake ticket bookings.
  
  Edit: some evidence.
  
  https://twitter.com/CWest3118/status/1274503269612740608?s=19
  
  https://twitter.com/stephenrodrick/status/1274478897057484805?s=19
  
  https://twitter.com/AndyOstroy/status/1274477050104098817?s=19
  
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  June 21, 2020 1:34pm
  - Okahu
    
    Batman, I know it’s in this blogs intellectual and technical ability, so would you consider creating a trust account to allow the holding of wagers on the upcoming US presidential election?
    
    I see the Trumpists spout their halfwitted drivel here about their fuhrer’s prospects. I’m pretty sure they need my money as much as I want theirs. A lot. An awful lot. So let’s do it. Every time a shitsniffing lickspittle For Trump or their deplorable uptickers pipes up, they should be asked to value their confidence in odds. I mean the moron above reckons libtard rubes have “no idea what storm awaits…”. Thats gotta be serious odds. I for one will bite!
    
    With of course the provision that should no election occur because of the “storm” turning out to be the suspension/abandonment of elections/democracy in the US, we get our money back. Minus 25% to be given to a charity of this blogs choice by general vote. Nobody should prosper from that disastrous but plausible outcome.
    
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    June 21, 2020 7:54pm
- SB2
  
  Harriet, now who is the governor in Texas?
  
  https://www.ft.com/content/8a88a302-a66e-38be-bebc-6fa9e0935252
  
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  June 21, 2020 1:50pm
Yvette

The Government has earmarked more than $56 million to support Māori communities and businesses feeling the economic impacts of the Covid-19 pandemic.
The bulk of that funding, some $30 million, has been made available for targeted health funding for Māori.

The Maori share of total population is 16.5%
The Government believed Maori would be hit at least twice the rate of the remainder of the population.
In reality the number of Maori cases, against the total number, was 8% to 9% – so a quarter of those anticipated by Ardern’s Government.

Has the $56 million amount been altered in any way to reflect that reality?
Especially as it is understood other funding is allocated for housing, rents and unemployment consequent to the lockdown.
As racism is to unfairly treat a minority group for their perceived differences, is it not something similar to over-favour the same group out of proportion to others?

Meanwhile, as Artemisia points out above, the Māori Party has yesterday released its flagship new policy to do away with Māori inequality, calling it ‘Whanau First’, and demanding a quarter of all government spending go on Māori projects – but Labour, also dealing in stereotype expectations of Maori health, dishes more health funding out than the facts would seem to require

Also, my cat still thinks Tamihere is an aerosol. In terms of Tamihere infamous “front-bums” remark, my cat thinks Tamihere’s front bum is about the same height off the ground as his mouth is.
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June 21, 2020 8:28am
- greybeard
  
  So that $30m is on top of what they ( and everyone else in NZ ) can get anyway. A bonus in other words. Which non-maori do not receive. Right….
  
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  June 21, 2020 11:54am
  - Two bob
    
    they got just shy of a billion in the budget…
    
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    June 21, 2020 1:57pm
Cassandra

Maori Party demanding more money for Maori and Tamihere accusing Europeans NZers of racism is a bit like the Pope saying he’s a Catholic – goes with the territory. But where is the response? Why do community leaders allow these people to remain unchallenged? That a separate authority for Maori is recommended by the Simpson health report is a symptom of this creeping separatism. But note it’s always accompanied by a demand for more money. I’d reluctantly agree to these separate bodies if they also said they’d fund it themselves. We’ll forgo some of your tax payments (what tax payments?) and you can fund your Maori Health Authority – and all the other things you want done separately.
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June 21, 2020 8:31am
- kowtow
  
  “the Pope saying he’s a Catholic’
  
  I have my doubts about the incumbent.
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:10am
  - Mike
    
    He seems a little too close to Jesus’s teachings to be a true Catholic.
    
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    June 21, 2020 9:37am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Yeah, Jesus was big on the Climate Change™ scam. Preached on it at every opportunity.
      
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      June 21, 2020 10:04am
    - kowtow
      
      So he’s sold the contents of the Vatican museum , the Vatican itself and all the property holdings of the Order he heads , the Jesuits , and given the proceeds to the poor?
      
      Today’s lesson is
      Matthew 19:16-22 English Standard Version
      The Rich Young Man
      16 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.”
      
      And no I didn’t start it , the Germans did.
      
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      June 21, 2020 10:32am
    - Ed Snack
      
      I doubt, Mike, that you’d actually have any knowledge at all of what Jesus preached, other than the SJW version fakery.
      
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      June 21, 2020 10:37am
- tf78
  
  I have just found a really good counter to the Maori Party, it’s called the New Zealand People Party.
  I listened to it’s leader Billy Te Kahika – giving a speech at the Akarana Yacht Club 11 June I think. What a great bloke with sound policies and interesting background. He is well worth a google. He spells out Jacinda’s communist credentials in no uncertain terms and her agendas. There is a bit of Maori spoken in the beginning of his speech but the actual speech is all in English. Very intelligent guy with similar values to Elliott Ikalei.
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:40am
  - pjay
    
    Yes – a good speaker, very persuasive and genuine – a somewhat rare person in today’s political climate.
    
    I gave him the flick when, towards the end of his speech he stated that Aotearoa’s history was founded on the Treaty of Waitangi and from that, his party’s policy’s.
    
    The TOW is no Magna Carta or American Consistuition – rather, it has been elevated from an agreement between the people of the day into our country’s founding document – a document which says little other than the “Principles of the TOW” – principles which are undefined and can easily be played as necessary.
    
    Not for me …
    
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    June 21, 2020 10:50am
kwkiwigirl

Can someone tell me why we aren’t testing every person returning to NZ? If it’s a cost thing then they should charge everyone coming in $200 for a test.

It’s well known that people can be asymptomatic and carry the virus.

Can we get a straight answer on this from Bloomfield and Ardern. There seems to be a lot of ifs and buts to everything they do and all the statements they are making these days.
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June 21, 2020 8:35am
- Two bob
  
  do they pay their own quarantine yet or it that on us?
  Really at this point travel is optional I hope we arent footing the bill but I guess socialist cindy decides otherwise?
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:06am
  - kwkiwigirl
    
    Twobob- totally. NZ getting to be a very desirable place to come to. Now every man and his dog wanting to come here whilst covid is on.
    
    Daily click bait/wind up articles in Stuff about the poor temporary work visa people wanting to bring their whole family out from where ever they came from – on the back of a temporary work visa.
    
    Howabout some of these temp work visa people also realise they could ALSO go back to their families in their OWN country? I saw Ardern just granted them $37m of ‘tideover’ money. Must be about the same amount of money permanent resident NZers are getting with all the dish out money Labour are handing out.
    
    Next thing they’ll all get permanent residence just because they decided not to leave NZ when covid hit. I guess Ardern would see that as another several thousand Labour voters she could gain overnight with something like PR for temp visa holders. Just surmising there but wouldn’t be surprised if that happened.
    
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    June 21, 2020 1:36pm
    - Two bob
      
      I said to my wife when the announced the 37mil that next theyll give them PR.
      I have a canadian and german friend still here and struggling yet refused repatriation flights, no sympathy when the $$$ runs out but looks like cindys lifeline will give them anutha few months of freedom camping.
      
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      June 21, 2020 2:04pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Those two clowns have not given a straight answer since day one. I is just constant waffle
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:10am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep,
    
    The Auditor-General’s report into the PPE mismanagement proves that we were being told a load of porkies from the start of the Covid-19 lockdown.
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121859677/auditorgeneral-discovers-lack-of-clarity-in-ministry-of-healths-handling-of-ppe
    
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    June 21, 2020 9:19am
    - kowtow
      
      The biggest porky was Go Hard Go Early……
      
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      June 21, 2020 10:33am
- Yvette
  
  Kwkiwigirl
  Since it plays such a vital part in combating covid-19, has anyone seen any official statement as to how much a test for the disease actually costs – taking a swab through to end laboratory result?
  How much does a covid-19 test cost?
  
  From test being seemingly rationed initially to only those who had symptoms AND contact with overseas travel, either because of scarcity of tests available or cost, there is the fact that just over 200 tests had been done when the first official positive result was found (February 28) and then it took another 18 days to do the first 1,000 tests – which makes an outright lie of “go early, go hard” (it is obvious Ardern’s slogan is intended to cover that discrepancy, along with the poor distribution of protective clothing).
  
  Testing still seems to be lacking in crucial areas, especially people entering the country.
  How much does a test cost?
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:14am
  - tf78
    
    I think Peter William said around $150/test.
    
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    June 21, 2020 9:41am
  - Pharmachick
    
    To be fair, in the beginning, there was a world-wide shortage of Taq (its the ingredient that makes the PCR work). Not an excuse any more.
    
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    June 21, 2020 12:22pm
  - kwkiwigirl
    
    Yvette, agree. I’d like to know how much a test costs.
    
    Also how come we are, all of a sudden, getting more positive cases across the border since the debacle of the two covid women who travelled to Wellington. Is it because they are now testing more people and not just taking their word that they don’t have any symptoms?
    
    In any case, it would be nice for us poor, long standing NZ tax payers if they did start to charge for testing and quarantining. What is the average amount of time some of these people have been non tax payer residents, who are now getting full board and room service for 14 days in 5 star central Auckland hotels?
    
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    June 21, 2020 2:05pm
- Akarak
  
  The Herald tells us that four people who flew from Auckland to Bangkok this week were taken to hospital with high fevers.
  This begs the question:
  a) how long were they in New Zealand
  b) were they tested while in New Zealand
  c) is there any tracking or tracing process being carried out in New Zealand in relation to these people?
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:28am
  - MCos
    
    None of your business, I would suggest.
    They might live here like a million other people not born in NZ.
    BTW
    A high temperature is indicative of . . . . . . . a high temperature.
    
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    June 21, 2020 12:08pm
- Souvlaki
  
  What the ” authorities” fail to mention is that Covid19 nasal swab testing has a false negative rate of about 30%. I accept they dont want to alarm the public…but this needs to be pointed out. In essence ,a single negative test, taken at face value can be therefore FALSLEY reassuring.
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:36am
  - DeepBlue
    
    This was the reason given for not testing people at the border in early days.
    
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    June 21, 2020 11:24am
Komata

artemesia@0810

And by mentioning this you have opened a very large can of worms, all of which will inevitably lead to accusations of ‘wacism’ and Anglocentric bias etc. etc. etc. (i.e, ‘The usual’ response…).

Do we really want to follow along this very well-worn path, or is it easier to simply say nothing and keep our (frequently correct, although unpopular) opinions to ourselves?

An interesting conundrum methinks…
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June 21, 2020 8:39am
- artemisia
  
  Yes it is a can of worms but IMO there is an increasing resentment among the silent majority, and not too much noise from the establishment – politicians, officials, academics, educators.
  
  And I have a foot in each camp, including quite a bit of time working in the Maori sector, and totally disagree with that establishment silence. I get why it happens but what lies beneath at a person by person level?
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:50am
  - Komata
    
    artemesia@0950
    
    Re: ‘… What lies beneath at a person by person level?’
    
    Largely, attitudes based upon, and formulated-by, personal experience and interactions with other individuals either socially or in commerce.
    
    Interestingly, the school yard segment of a child’s development tends to significantly-mould attitudes, since obviously if a child is beaten-up by another child (or more frequently children), then that experience will inevitably-colour what follows and create a wariness towards a specific individual or social or ethnic group; which wariness remains throughout the person’s life, to be either reinforced or minimized with the passage of time.
    
    It’s an interesting but somewhat-poorly researched area.
    
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    June 21, 2020 11:42am
Paulus

Wot do you mean ? – the Maori Party only want 25% of the New Zealand GDP as they believe that is their right.
Perhaps a study should be done to show how much Maori – those called Maori, participate via taxes to the GDP.
What they give to their country as well as what they think what they want.
Wonder what the answer would be !
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June 21, 2020 8:44am
Maggy Wassilieff

So at what point does a Pakeha become asymptomatic with the racist virus?

Are little pakeha babies racist?
Are pakeha mothers/fathers of Maori children racist?
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June 21, 2020 8:56am
- Two bob
  
  we might be asymptomatic but the maori party is very sympomatic racists, they are nzs anti-fa political party.
  
  dont know when this racism starts but most likely at the point in our lives when we start doing better and getting better outcomes.
  
  do any genuinely successfull maori (non virtue signal types) believe this crap?
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:12am
  - artemisia
    
    “do any genuinely successfull maori (non virtue signal types) believe this crap? “
    
    No. And in my extended family about half live in Australia. And the ones here almost all fall into the successful camp. Reason – education and no addiction, mainly.
    
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    June 21, 2020 9:53am
    - Komata
      
      artimesia@0953
      
      While totally agreeing with the education / addiction aspect you mention, another very important contributor is the DISTANCING from Tribe and family, both of which can be leech-like, extremely negative, and envious and voracious in their demands.
      
      Interestingly, this aspect is frequently-alluded-to by Mossies as being crucial for their success, with many being extremely reluctant to return to NZ and re-enter such an environment.
      
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      June 21, 2020 11:48am
    - Two bob
      
      I think its more that theres no welfare backstop for kiwis in aussie, maori or non maori kiwis excel over there for that reason.
      
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      June 21, 2020 12:03pm
      - Batman
        
        Amazing, you’ve completely skipped over the fact that the people who go to Aussie are the type of people who work to succeed and have that motivation. That’s why they go and have a crack.
        
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        June 21, 2020 1:10pm
      - Two bob
        
        @Batman
        nope ive known many that went to aussie with intentions of starting a new life. 2months clubbing and booze/drugs like they did back here and theyre broke and back in nz, ive seen alot of ppl give up after a week and return (family included)
        Those with a typical lazy/bludge kiwi attitude get weeded out by employers very quickly and sent packing.
        
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        June 21, 2020 2:10pm
- fernglas
  
  Being asymptomatic means that you show no signs of having the illness. Someone who has no symptoms is not ill. So it’s actually a compliment.
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:31am
- chaos
  
  At what point can a racist and vile bully become the leader of the Maori party and then claim people are racist without correcting his own behaviour.
  
  Let’s talk about racism in this country
  
  People jumping the cue in a dhb for operations not because they are at the most Urgent cases, but because their race
  
  People being given places in higher education not because they have earned it, but because of their race
  
  People being given the deputy position of the Labour Party not because they are the most capable for that position but because they wanted the Maori vote
  
  I think we could all spend hours listing the racism that exists in nz, only it’s not what those protesting racism say it is
  
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  June 21, 2020 10:38am
JibberJabber

The caring, kind, and be nice stay calm Left exhibit A,
https://medium.com/@rebeccarc/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-activists-a-story-in-screenshots-78e01dca68d
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June 21, 2020 9:00am
- kevn
  
  @J J… Impressive in a bad way.
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:57am
lastmanstanding

If we were a just society rather than a mealy mouthed soft cock society we would have the death penalty for cop killers. Instead we have so called “Life Sentence” with time off for good behaviour.

This POS is 24. He will out with more than half his miserable worthless life ahead of him not like his young victim. And he will cost the taxpayers $millions rather than contribute to society.

Cops Lives Matter

BTW The Muzzie countries do it so it must be OK eh Cindy.
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June 21, 2020 9:21am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Speaking of Cindy, has she made any comment with regard to the killing of the cop?
  Or don’t young white lives matter?
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:45am
  - chaos
    
    Why don’t you take half a minute to google before you make stupid comments. If you are stupid enough to think the prime minister wouldn’t comment on this then you belong in labour. And what is more stupid is you are using the death of a police officer to try and attack her
    
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    June 21, 2020 10:31am
Tomtoddy

Damien Grant hits the spot in Stuff.

More revelation on the nakedness of the emporor.
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June 21, 2020 9:25am
- Two bob
  
  he usually has pretty solid opinion pieces very rarely I can disagree with him.
  
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  June 21, 2020 2:13pm
JibberJabber

Ardern is MIA for a week now, is she having another breakdown/ holiday or just simply running scared?
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June 21, 2020 9:31am
- kevn
  
  cinders and ash… What a legacy.
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:55am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Not a double act anymore, of course, one should never say never.
    
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    June 21, 2020 9:54pm
- chaos
  
  There internal polling shows them crashing, new plan to have Cindy not deliver bad news, only good.
  
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  June 21, 2020 10:42am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Oma rapeti, oma rapeti, oma, oma, oma
  
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  June 21, 2020 10:42am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Ardern MIA?
  Not quite, she’s in the news again with a picture of the cake she made for Neve’s birthday.
  Of course that’s more important than any sympathy she might have for the dead cop.
  
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  June 21, 2020 11:29am
  - Two bob
    
    Im suprised jacinda hasnt been to auckland and got some sad face and cuddle photos.
    prob dosent want seen near her quarantine blunders.
    
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    June 21, 2020 12:24pm
    - Gravelroad
      
      Wearing a Police constable’s hat?
      
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      June 21, 2020 2:30pm
    - tui47
      
      Her supporters aren’t fond of police. She would not want to offend them.
      
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      June 21, 2020 6:24pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        But she knows so many older ones through her father.
        
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        June 21, 2020 9:56pm
Durden

UK has seen the light.
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1274344547691216897

It won’t be long before NZ drops its stupid contact tracing App. And shifts to the Google-Apple code based version used by the Australians.

Although even that still has a few issues, conceptually and execution wise it is way better.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jun/17/covid-safe-app-australia-covidsafe-contact-tracing-australian-government-covid19-tracking-problems-working?CMP=twt_gu

The sooner the make this decision the better because the cock-ups of last week suggest that we are going to be doing contact tracing for a long long time to come.

Again, maybe some dumb journalist reads this blog and asks Bloomfailed a question this afternoon.
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June 21, 2020 9:33am
Fletch

What else needs to be said? The founder of Black Lives Matter, Patrisse Cullors, on camera in an interview saying that she and her co-founder are “trained organizers, and trained Marxists”.

https://www.facebook.com/martynlloydiles/videos/vb.143964342937025/2627059997535070/?type=2&theater
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June 21, 2020 9:34am
- All_on_Red
  
  Can’t wait until they learn about Yale
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:52am
Fletch

Rioters have torn down the statue of Ulysses S. Grant. He defeated the Confederacy, and devastated the KKK.

At this point, there doesn’t seem any rhyme or reason.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/rioters-in-california-tear-down-statue-of-ulysses-s-grant-he-defeated-the-confederacy-devastated-kkk
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June 21, 2020 9:37am
- kevn
  
  @Fletch… Collective madness.
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:54am
- Inandout
  
  Fletch, M L King will be next on the list to topple because he wasn’t a radical, more of a womaniser. BLM are running out of statues so as Marxists are wont to do, will devour their own.
  
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  June 21, 2020 10:37am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  But over in Germany, folks have just erected a statue of Lenin.
  https://www.rferl.org/a/germany-marxists-lenin-statue-germany/30681737.html
  
  Of course, forced labour of a bunch of Slav peasants could never be the same as capitalist-inspired slavery, could it?
  
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  June 21, 2020 11:53am
- Nickc2
  
  These people are supposed to be educated! Yea, right. Just wanton destruction for the sake of it.
  
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  June 21, 2020 11:56am
- ex-golfer
  
  They’ve been busy tagging and defacing statues of Lincoln too.
  Distinct lack of common sense or knowledge of history in these over-entitled prats.
  
  BTW – did anyone notice the drive-up lootings? Lots of Mercs, BMWs, Range Rovers…….so much for poverty huh?
  
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  June 21, 2020 5:59pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are in a bar. Donald leans over, and with a smile on his face, says, “The media is really tearing you apart for That Scandal.”

Hillary: “You mean my lying about Benghazi?”
Trump: “No, the other one.”

Hillary: “You mean the massive voter fraud?”
Trump: “No, the other one.”

Hillary: “You mean the military not getting their votes counted?”
Trump: “No, the other one.”

Hillary: “You mean Cattle-gate where I invested $1,000 dollars in “cattle futures” in the stock market and returned a $90,000 dollar profit within 6 months”
Trump: “No, the other one.”

Hillary: “You mean taking millions of dollars in bribes and calling them speaking fees?”
Trump: “No the other one.”

Hillary: “You mean using my secret private email server with classified material to hide my activities, and which put National Security and CIA lives at risk from hacking?”
Trump: “No, the other one.”

Hillary: “You mean spending four years pushing the TPP job killing Corporate Power Grab for my corporate Globalist donors and then lying that I’m now somehow against it?”
Trump: “No the other one”

Hillary: “The NSA monitoring our phone calls, emails and everything else?”
Trump: “No, the other one.”

Hillary: “Using the Clinton Foundation as a cover for tax evasion, Hiring Cronies, and taking bribes from foreign countries?
Trump: “No, the other one.”

Hillary: “You mean harassing, intimidating, bullying and smearing Bill’s rape victims to stop their stories getting traction in the media?”
Trump: “No the other one.”

Hillary: “You mean the drones being operated in our own country without The Benefit of the law?”
Trump: “No, the other one.”

Hillary: “Giving 123 Technologies $300 Million, and right afterward it Declared Bankruptcy and was sold to the Chinese?”
Trump: “No, the other one.”

Hillary: “You mean arming the Muslim Brotherhood and hiring their supporters like Huma Abedin to work in the White House?”
Trump: “No, the other one.”

Hillary: “Whitewater, Watergate committee, Vince Foster, commodity Deals?”
Trump: “No the other one:”

Hillary: “The funding of neo Nazis in the Ukraine that led to the toppling of the democratically elected president and to the biggest crisis that country has had since WWII ?”
Trump: “No the other one:”

Hillary: “Turning Libya into chaos?”
Trump: “No the other one.”

Hillary: “Being the mastermind of the so-called “Arab Spring” that only brought chaos, death and destruction to the Middle East and North Africa ?
Trump: “No the other one.”

Hillary: “Leaving four Americans to die in Benghazi and go to sleep?
Trump: “No the other one:”

Hillary: “You mean gun running from Benghazi to terrorists in Syria?”
Trump: “No the other one.”

Hillary: “You mean backing a right wing coup in Honduras in 2009 which increased the Central American drugs gang fueled violence and caused a massive spike in the illegal immigration problem on America’s southern border?”
Trump: “No the other one.”

Hillary: “Trashing Mubarak, one of our few Muslim friends?”
Trump: “No the other one.”

Hillary: “Encouraging and supporting the murders of Palestinians and the destruction of their homes, towns and villages by Israel ?”
Trump: “No the other one.”

Hillary: “The funding and arming of terrorists in Syria, the destruction and destabilization of that nation, giving the order to our lapdogs in Turkey and Saudi Arabia to give sarin gas to the “moderate” terrorists in Syria that they eventually used on civilians, and framed Assad, and had it not been for the Russians and Putin, we would have used that as a pretext to invade Syria, put a puppet in power, steal their natural resources, and leave that country in total chaos, just like we did with Libya?
Trump: “No the other one.”

Hillary: “The creation of the biggest refugees crisis since WWII
Trump: “No the other one.”

Hillary: “Leaving Iraq in chaos? ”
Trump: “No, the other one.”

Hillary: “The DOJ spying on the press?”
Trump: “No, the other one.”

Hillary: “You mean HHS Secretary Sibelius shaking down health insurance Executives?”
Trump: “No, the other one.”

Hillary: “Giving our cronies in SOLYNDRA $500 MILLION DOLLARS and 3 Months Later they declared bankruptcy and then the Chinese bought it?”
Trump: “No, the other one.”

Hillary: “You mean taking tens of millions in bribes from a Canadian mining magnate to sell off US Uranium to Russia?”
Trump: “No, the other one.”

Hillary: “The NSA monitoring citizens’ ?”
Trump: “No, the other one.”

Hillary: “The State Department interfering with an Inspector General Investigation on departmental sexual misconduct?”
Trump: “No, the other one.”

Hillary: “Me, The IRS, Clapper and Holder all lying to Congress?”
Trump: “No, the other one.”

Hillary: “Threats to all of Bill’s former mistresses to keep them quiet”
Trump: “No, the other one.”

Hillary: “I give up! … Oh wait, I think I’ve got it! When I stole the White House furniture, silverware, when Bill left Office?”
Trump: “THAT’S IT! I almost forgot about that one”.
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June 21, 2020 9:43am
- Nickc2
  
  Priceless but so true!
  
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  June 21, 2020 12:03pm
- SB2
  
  Pure pop corn stuff!
  
  2 6
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  June 21, 2020 1:57pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Proof?
    
    1 0
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    June 21, 2020 8:32pm
- Two bob
  
  and in real life one would be arkancided by the 3rd or 4th one!!!
  
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  June 21, 2020 2:17pm
Colville

The Warriors

So they sack the coach after a string of ineptness and failure, no surprise there.

But if to reinforce how utterly incompetent the management (how did the owner make money in the first place?) its now said that Kearny will get a $2 mil payout.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/warriors/121896368/warriors-facing-up-to-2-million-payout-after-sacking-coach-stephen-kearney

What the Actual FUCK?

Surely a pass/fail mark for a coach must be well above a 40% win rate?
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June 21, 2020 9:53am
- Ruahine
  
  I cannot believe that the Warriors winning percentage is only 41%. TV One shows them scoring tries all the time against their Oz opposition.
  
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  June 21, 2020 10:39am
- G152
  
  The players are crap.
  Players lose games
  Sack the players and recall the coach
  
  5 1
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  June 21, 2020 10:46am
- MCos
  
  Part of his contract I expect, same as the $4.6mil payed out to Theo Spierings by Fonterra even though they struggled under his leadership.
  
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  June 21, 2020 11:50am
kevn

@SteveO…
A Sunday morning well spent.
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June 21, 2020 9:53am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Copy and paste from a FB memory from last year
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:58am
Komata

SteveO@0943

And the media headlines (Because she would have leaked the ‘conversation to CNN et al) read

‘TRUMP HARRASSES AND INTERROGATES HILARY, FORCING HER TO TELL THE TRUTH’
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June 21, 2020 9:57am
Left Right and Centre

Did I hear that the police murderer was high on meth? (of course)
Wasting no time lining up excuses.
I’m a lovely person – it was the meth. I’m a victim.
13 1
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June 21, 2020 10:02am
virtualmark

Hard to pull off a Friday night massacre when you can’t even load the gun properly.

Quite comedic watching Barr flail around though.
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June 21, 2020 10:10am
Left Right and Centre

Border control is a joke and it’s 100% the CoL’s fault.
If Jacinda Ardern had one ounce of credibility she would own it and resign as prime minister.
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June 21, 2020 10:13am
- Two bob
  
  joke of the day!!
  
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  June 21, 2020 2:18pm
chaos

Awww, how sweet, the UN showing their continued support for terrorists.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:CiXV0_MfEX0J:https://twitter.com/UNGeneva/status/1274007783864627201
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June 21, 2020 10:26am
- SB2
  
  chaos, dead link. Please rectify!
  
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  June 21, 2020 1:38pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Doesn’t seem very safe in Seattle’s Police-free zone.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/20/seattle-shooting-police-free-zone-chaz
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June 21, 2020 10:56am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Similar story out West Auckland way 🙁
  
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  June 21, 2020 11:08am
BeaB

Another disgracefully biased Mediawatch this morning. Bad enough Lisa Owens somehow manipulating Ardern’s blatant use of Ayesha Verrall as an impartial expert when she was actually a Labour candidate-in-waiting to blame Todd Muller for not telling Simon Bridges he was challenging him.
Now Mediawatch equates the two (as if they have anything at all in common) and then moves on to the appointment Of Matthew Hooten and the supposed UK Tory dark arts.
Gosh. We couldn’t have any criticism of St Jacinda. Cover it all up with more twisted bias against National. I missed the weekly rant against Hosking this morning but I guess trying to besmirch Muller pleased the paymasters.
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June 21, 2020 11:04am
Maggie Pie

And as promised last week, keeping the group up to date with the goss now playing out on both Twitter and Facebook – WOT. A. HOOT. 😛

https://twitter.com/PeeblesHooper/status/1273857337803943936

Honestly, you couldn’t make this sh*t up!
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June 21, 2020 11:24am
- niggly
  
  Plus, does this mean “Hardcore” is now using the same lawyer that acted for the Labour Summer Camp pervert?
  
  If so wonder if Jacinda (or “Labour”) recommended that to Richie on a personal basis? 🙂
  
  Being protected from the top? Not a good look for Hardcore and Labour – bwahaha!
  
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  June 21, 2020 11:35am
DeepBlue

Neve turned two today. Happy birthday.

JAs tweet about the cake:
‘”Cake making lesson number two – don’t focus on making the cake look in proportion with little to no attention on structural integrity,” the PM wrote.

Hahahahaha. There’s also a political and economic lesson there dear Jacinda. I hope these words are roundly criticized.
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June 21, 2020 11:33am
- Batman
  
  Probably not, because people aren’t petty losers who will seek to make a child’s birthday a political attack, as a general rule.
  
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  June 21, 2020 1:02pm
  - DeepBlue
    
    Tell that to Stuff and The Herald who both are running stories on Ardern’s tweet and the cake, and not about wishing Neve a happy birthday. That is as political as you can get. Can’t have it both ways.
    
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    June 21, 2020 1:51pm
  - Two bob
    
    wonder what will become of the cake? Socialists always want to have their cake and eat it too.
    
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    June 21, 2020 2:21pm
  - Pharmachick
    
    Yes and no Batman. I agree that the progeny of politicians and other famous people (e.g. royals, actors etc) should be out-of-bounds… right up until said famous people actively use the kids a props, marketing, photo ops etc
    
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    June 21, 2020 4:23pm
Durden

Priorities at NZ Herald.

Jacinda’s “sweet baking mishap” replaces “crash at Rakaia” on its breaking news banner.

How low can they go ?
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June 21, 2020 11:37am
Komata

Durden@1137

Very; and they’re not even making an effort to do so; it seems to be happening naturally.

By such means does a one-time ‘Journal of Record’ become a ‘Five Minute Flyer’ and worthy only for use as wrapping material.
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June 21, 2020 11:55am
Nickc2

UN backs ANTIFA and condemns Trump. Well, who would have guessed? Nothing surprises me about the UN.
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2020/06/un-backs-antifa-condemns-trump-administration-for-labelling-antifa-terrorists.html
Talk about lunatics and the asylum etc.
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June 21, 2020 12:20pm
- Batman
  
  That would be because Antifa is a leaderless idea with no organisation, no policies, and no actual record of terror attacks.
  
  Meanwhile, groups like QAnon, the boogaloo boys, and various other far right nutbars, have actually killed people and done things like try to drive a freight train into a ship. Oh and a bunch of mass shootings which cause terror.
  
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  June 21, 2020 1:23pm
  - Fletch
    
    Antifa is a decades-old organisation that was started by the Communist party in 1930s Germany. This lot may not be exactly the same, but they have the same flag and the same goals.
    
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    June 21, 2020 1:26pm
    - Batman
      
      Lol the old “they’re the real Nazis” trick. Sad.
      
      Just because the words “anti-fascist” appeared in the 30s in Germany, that doesn’t mean there’s any real link to the current group beyond being an inspiration due to being anti-Nazi.
      
      “Antifa (United States) – Wikipedia” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)
      
      “Ideologically, antifa in the United States sees itself as the successor to anti-Nazi activists of the 1930s.”
      
      Nice of you to stick up for Nazi’s and fascists, Fletchy boy. A real winning combo.
      
      2 13
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      June 21, 2020 2:03pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Batman, I don’t give a shit about how Antifa is organised etc and I made no such reference. Are you looking for relevance or something? Read the headline damn it.
    
    7 1
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    June 21, 2020 1:45pm
    - Batman
      
      That’s the point, Nick. You can’t just read a dumb headline like that (along with the world’s shortest ‘news’ story) and claim it as fact.
      
      The reality is far more complex. And sadly for you, doesn’t stack up.
      
      2 10
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      June 21, 2020 2:05pm
      - Jack5
        
        According to Wikipedia:
        
        “The original organisation called Antifa was the Antifaschistische Aktion (1932–1933), set up by the then-Stalinist Communist Party of Germany (KPD) during the late history of the Weimar Republic.”
        
        6 0
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        June 21, 2020 5:39pm
      - Batman
        
        The original but not the American one.
        
        Thanks for clarifying that it.
        
        1 5
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        June 21, 2020 5:44pm
- Durden
  
  This is Antifa
  https://duckduckgo.com/?q=antifa masked images&t=hk&ia=images&iax=images
  
  https://www.smh.com.au/national/beneath-the-black-mask-inside-australias-antifascist-antifa-groups-20160517-gox69s.html
  
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  June 21, 2020 4:48pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Batman, I rest my case, international thugs!
    
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    June 21, 2020 8:52pm
ex-golfer

Trump rally.
Speech being covered live on Fox News and some other dedicated news channels.
But not on CNN – did he ban them?
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June 21, 2020 12:35pm
- Batman
  
  Most channels are opting to cover the start but not air the full speech, due to the amount of bullshit he spews.
  
  Besides, no point giving any elected leader two hours of unadulterated free spin time.
  
  4 14
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  June 21, 2020 1:16pm
  - Batman
    
    Case in point, so far he has talked about dead birds under wind turbines, how he “slowed down” testing to reduce case numbers, and a confused rant about calling someone at Boeing a “son of a bitch”.
    
    Orange man is losing it 😉
    
    2 11
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    June 21, 2020 2:07pm
- waripori
  
  The other channels probably wanted to spare Trump the embarrassment. I watched a few minutes live on Fox. Considering Trump has had weeks to prepare for this , that he is basically trotting out his stump speech and is reading it from a teleprompter the delivery was a shocker. He is incapable of finishing the same sentence he starts. Absolutely incoherent. Also full of little gems such as stating he asked his people to scale back covid 19 testing because they are finding too many cases. He does not even realise how ridiculous that statement is.
  
  If Republicans are expecting the debates with Biden to be a turning point they could be heading for a big disappointment. They have set the bar for Biden so low all he really has to do is not fall asleeep and he will have won.
  
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  June 21, 2020 2:14pm
  - virtualmark
    
    It was a trainwreck. A half-full arena listening to two and half hours of a whining Rodney Dangerfield impersonator about how he gets no respect. Seventeen minutes (!) about how he really wasn’t in trouble walking down that ramp at West Point.
    
    If Joe Biden’s not careful the FEC are going to insist he reports the full costs of Trump’s Tulsa rally as a campaign contribution.
    
    I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. Trump is in the mid-stages of dementia. He will not function in a debate. Too many people have worked out the orange Emperor has no clothes. He will struggle to make it through to November, and if he does I suspect it will be a huge sweep for Biden.
    
    Trump’s best bet would be to negotiate a resignation + pardon deal like Nixon.
    
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    June 21, 2020 4:19pm
    - waripori
      
      Talk about setting the bar low. Roar of applause for successfully drinking a glass of water.
      
      0 3
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      June 21, 2020 5:31pm
    - BeaB
      
      I wish people would stop making diagnoses of dementia. Those of us who have lived through it with loved ones know there is n0 way they could have been president, given a speech etc etc.
      It’s cruel and unfeeling and should stop.
      
      6 0
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      June 21, 2020 5:47pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  I thought the Trump rally would rally Trump’s troops. But the betting market saw it otherwise and slightly lengthened his odds.
  Not a good sign for a Trump fan like me.
  
  2 2
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  June 21, 2020 5:11pm
RW Capitalist

Q;
Why are all the unemployment stats, going back 30 yrs, recorded quarterly, up to march 2020, but will not be updated until sept. 2020.
Coincidentally there is an election that month.
source, stats NZ.
12 0
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June 21, 2020 12:43pm
- 3-coil
  
  Stats NZ doing the same with NZ suicide stats.
  
  10 0
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  June 21, 2020 2:52pm
Fletch

Muhammed Ali, Jr saying that his dad would have “hated” the racist Black Lives Matter.

“Don’t bust up s–t, don’t trash the place,” he told The Post. “You can peacefully protest.

‘‘My father would have said, ‘They ain’t nothing but devils.’ My father said, ‘all lives matter.’ I don’t think he’d agree.

Of the BLM movement, Ali Jr., a Muslim like his father, said: “I think it’s racist.”

“It’s not just black lives matter, white lives matter, Chinese lives matter, all lives matter, everybody’s life matters. God loves everyone — he never singled anyone out. Killing is wrong no matter who it is,” Ali said during an hour-long interview with The Post.

He agrees with President Trump that Antifa fomented violence during the Floyd protests and should be labeled a terrorist organization.

“They’re no different from Muslim terrorists. They should all get what they deserve. They’re f–king up businesses, beating up innocent people in the neighborhood, smashing up police stations and shops. They’re terrorists – they’re terrorizing the community. I agree with the peaceful protests, but the Antifa, they need to kill everyone in that thing.

“Black Lives Matter is not a peaceful protest. Antifa never wanted it peaceful. I would take them all out.”

Ali said he supports President Trump and that his father — who went to jail for refusing to be drafted during the Vietnam War on the basis of his religious beliefs — would have too.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/20/muhammad-alis-son-says-he-wouldve-hated-black-lives-matters/
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June 21, 2020 1:24pm
- ex-golfer
  
  I hope the NY Post editor that allowed this story to be published has updated his/her CV.
  When stories like this get published, the backlash inevitably leads to the editor responsible being fired!
  
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  June 21, 2020 2:08pm
- niggly
  
  Yes to this – 100% agreement with Ali Jnr!
  
  And I’m glad he brought up the “T” word …. I’ve been quietly wondering to myself whether those that actually carry out the acts of violence against societal norms (destroying buildings, businesses, statues and attacking bystanders and business owners) should be considered “terrorists” and treated by the full force of the law.
  
  20 years ago the world was disgusted at the Taliban for blowing up the Buddhist statues of Bamiyan province in Afghanistan. It seems the modern day revisionists have exactly the same mindset when it comes to statues build before today’s “enlightened times”?
  
  Perhaps we should call the modern day “woke” the new “Western Tailban”?!!
  
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  June 21, 2020 2:58pm
SB2

The latest from Tulsa ,

TRUMP TO RALLY AS STAFFERS IN TULSA TEST POSITIVE FOR COVID-19: Trump supporters are beginning to arrive for President Trump’s event in Tulsa, Oklahoma, his first rally since the coronavirus pandemic swept the U.S. Oklahoma recently reported its highest single-day increase in new coronavirus cases, as it has seen an 110% increase in the average number of new cases per day from just last week. Tulsa County has the most cases of any county in the state with over 1,800 infections. NBC News reports that both Dr. Anthony Fauci and Dr. Deborah Birx of the White House Coronavirus Task Force voiced their opposition to the rally, while Tulsa Health Dept. Executive Director Dr. Bruce Dart told CNN that the rally is a ‘perfect.”

https://www.facebook.com/908009612563863/videos/364518051192750/
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June 21, 2020 1:59pm
- SB2
  
  Plus much smaller attendence than expected ,
  
  https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2020/06/20/smaller-than-expected-crowd-size-doesnt-fill-arena-at-trump-tulsa-rally/#56ff1ce94181
  
  Sigh!
  
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  June 21, 2020 2:06pm
  - Fletch
    
    Zoomers sabotaged the rally by reserving thousands of tickets then not showing up.
    
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8443751/American-teens-sabotaged-Trumps-Tulsa-rally-reserving-tickets-hundreds.html
    
    5 1
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    June 21, 2020 6:58pm
    - Mike
      
      Sad!
      
      1 2
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      June 21, 2020 7:32pm
ex-golfer

All is not well in CHOP.
1 dead and 1 injured in a shooting incident.
Ironically they needed Seattle Police to investigate.
You won’t see this covered on CNN – they are too busy enjoying the summer “love-in”.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/20/chop-shooting-seattle/
8 3
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June 21, 2020 2:14pm
- SB2
  
  ex-golfer,” You wont see this covered on CNN…”
  
  You would be wrong there,
  
  https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/20/us/seattle-capitol-hill-chop-chaz-shooting/index.html
  
  3 5
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  June 21, 2020 3:12pm
lifesgood

I’ve just had a long conversation with my neighbour, a Labour voter from way back. She’s furious with Jacinda and her mob, disgusted with the Key Stone Cops supposed to be organising the isolation of incomers, definitely not voting Labour this time. I’m picking there are a lot like her out there. As she said “We all abided by the rules and all the time we were being lied to”. I have renewed respect for my neighbour.
17 4
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June 21, 2020 2:15pm
Two bob

4 confirmed cases came through our border this week since the blunder was uncovered and they ACTUALLY started testing.

so if we averaged that over the last x amount of weeks of no testing…. tell me how the f**k no one has lost their job yet?

time for cindy ash clarke to decide who will take a stand of solidarity with the rest of NZ and join the cue at winz!!!!
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June 21, 2020 2:30pm
RJ

I’m sorry but as much as I love honey it is not worth this much.

Somewhere in Northland, bees are busy making a honey so sought-after one shopper bought $62,000 worth in a single transaction at UK department store Harrod’s.

While the exact location of the True Honey Company’s hives is a closely guarded secret, the popularity of its Rare Harvest mānuka honey is spreading like wildfire.

The Harrod’s sale, involving 25 jars of Rare Harvest honey at more than $2500 each, might have been “one of note” for an individual customer, but business has boomed since the outbreak of coronavirus, chief executive Jim Mcmillan said.

“There is a pretty strong correlation between the health benefits of mānuka honey and Covid-19,” he said.

Stuff Article
6 1
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June 21, 2020 3:18pm
- lifesgood
  
  I read an article recently claiming that the benefits of manuka honey were grossly over stated according to a scientific investigation. So more fool that person.
  
  7 1
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  June 21, 2020 4:25pm
  - Inandout
    
    lifesgood, yes ask any apiarist and they will tell you bees will land on all kinds of flowers, and the manuka myth is very profitable for some.
    
    5 0
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    June 21, 2020 8:08pm
RJ

I cannot help but wonder that perhaps we should keep our quarantined people in one area. Not bussing and flying them around the country to different locations.

Returning travellers are outraged after hopping on a bus they thought was going to Auckland’s CBD for managed quarantine – but ended up in Rotorua.

They say they were given no warning of where they were going and weren’t given any time to go to the toilet or even get a bottle of water before being herded onto the bus.

“Everyone responded in disbelief, they thought it was some kind of joke. But it became clear once we really were out of the city limits that we were on our way to Rotorua,” one traveller, who did not want to be named, told the Herald.

The Government’s National Emergency Management Agency confirmed two new managed isolation facilities had been set up in Rotorua this weekend to cater for more arrivals.

NZ Herald Article
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June 21, 2020 3:32pm
Durden

This NZTA manager’s arrogant response is breathtaking–“I’Anson said the passing lane would not be coming back anytime soon, and allowing drivers to use the median strip instead was too risky.”

They removed passing lanes near Ohakea and now have to put safe-hit posts to stop people from using median to pass. They seem to have lost all touch with drivers’ requirements who effectively pay all their salaries.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300038987/safehit-posts-installed-on-state-highway-1-near-hakea-to-stop-overtaking-on-median-strip

Their only answer to everything “safety” seems to be first to make everything single-lane and/or impose speed limit reductions.

Its not as though other countries do not have passing lanes. They are there for a good reason. NZTA should re-examine and redesign that stretch of the road to provide safer passing lanes.

The problem is they are not being asked to evaluate/compare the economic cost of the consequence of their actions. The only assessment seems to be on the safety benefit–and with Greens in control it is the misapplied Vision Zero philosophy driving them. They forget that the road is SH1 – a highway not a city road. And Vision Zero outcomes for highways are unfortunately being done on the cheap by slowing traffic — using single laning and lowering speed limits, rather than a redesign of the roads.

If they were forced to look at the economic cost of consequences , they might invest some money to create roads with safer passing spaces to keep traffic flowing. Rather than spending it all on city cycleways, fake never ending consultation processes, bad contracting (Transmission Gully) and irritating advertisements showing self-important supercilious cops.
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June 21, 2020 4:38pm
Johnboy

How can anyone with half a brain not realise that the best way to negotiate this dreadful Covid-19 epidemic is to sack Ashley and appoint Darryn ? 🙂
If you have more than half a brain ask Jackie. 🙂
4 2
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June 21, 2020 5:24pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  but, but, but …
  Ashley has sent our hearts aflutter….
  https://www.interest.co.nz/news/105043/spinoffs-duncan-greive-how-jacinda-ardern-ashley-bloomfield-communications-workers
  
  5 1
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  June 21, 2020 7:16pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/121886444/locals-fear-two-new-houses-will-slip-off-north-auckland-cliff-due-to-erosion

WHO CARES ?
What idiots to build there.
3 1
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June 21, 2020 5:24pm
- Inandout
  
  It is called gravity, cliff hanging people.
  
  3 0
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  June 21, 2020 8:11pm
Jack5

Bad day for our moderator, ?BATMAN!

General Debate, Saturday, Batman posted:

“I’m very much looking forward to the Canes bouncing back against the cocksaders tomorrow.”

Match result today: Crusaders 39, Hurricanes 25.
Five tries to one!
6 1
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June 21, 2020 5:35pm
- Batman
  
  Yeah it’s a hard road being a Hurricanes fan I’ll tell ya that for nothing!
  
  We were a shambles.
  
  8 3
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  June 21, 2020 5:45pm
  - RJ
    
    It could be worse
    
    You could support The Warriors
    
    6 2
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    June 21, 2020 6:42pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Now there was this birthday cake thing. Did it have hundreds and thousands on it?
Or BILLIONS and TRILLIONS?
Asking for the NET NZ taxpayer
7 3
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June 21, 2020 6:05pm
- SB2
  
  The most recents polls suggest that contrasted to you the NET NZ taxpayer thinks very differentlly about the issue than you.
  
  1 7
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  June 21, 2020 6:11pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I still work, aged 68 – sunshine. I did not skip out at 65
    
    5 3
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    June 21, 2020 6:22pm
RJ

Good to see an investigation is starting into the Jacinda Aroha posters. Heading into an election these should be pulled down.

Don’t know about other people but they remind me of the old communist posters.

For anyone who has not seen these posters. Old May article
10 2
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June 21, 2020 6:15pm
- RJ
  
  Article has finally gone up
  
  The Electoral Commission is investigating a poster made in tribute to Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern after receiving complaints it breached the rules about political advertising.
  
  One News Article
  
  8 0
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  June 21, 2020 8:06pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

‘Jacinda Guevara’
Tell me I am wrong
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June 21, 2020 6:29pm
- niggly
  
  Well as they say , “if the cap fits” ….
  
  And looks like these Lefties agree!
  
  https://www.redbubble.com/i/poster/Jacinda-Ardern-Che-Guevara-by-Energetic-Mind/46925863.LVTDI
  
  Wonder if they might roll one out with an AK47 if the “peasants start getting restless”? 😉
  
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  June 21, 2020 7:35pm
  - Inandout
    
    We have all seen Che’s quote regarding blacks; not a very nice attitude.
    
    5 0
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    June 21, 2020 8:14pm
    - niggly
      
      Thanks, didn’t know that so did a bit of googling (although a couple of articles I read seemed to be at odds with each other) … however the searches also revealed he was a homophobe and supported homosexuals being imprisoned in concentration camps.
      
      Well frankly if that’s the case then how long before the LGBTQI community realise this and start denouncng fellow “comrades” wearing “Che” t-shirts and the like?!
      
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      June 21, 2020 9:50pm
RJ

In name only, still not good enough. This minister has let down New Zealand, he has let down businesses and it was very obvious that he even let down our health system as nurses and doctors cried out for supplies.. Those same supplies that the Prime Minister would lie in the daily covid update that the medical staff had when they didn’t.

John Armstrong’s opinion: David Clark is Minister of Health in name only after calamitous Covid-19 testing bungle

One News Article
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June 21, 2020 6:38pm
- quarterpack
  
  I would have hoped the new leader of the opposition Todd Muller might have something to say about this….instead he has announced he is willing to come to coalition arrangement with the Maori Party, should the cards fall his way in September. This has already been ruled out by the Maori Party as they consider him a racist. Todd should have stayed in Te Puna no one cares who you might or might not go into collation with there is only one big story, and that is the traitorous incompetency of the authorities in charge of our border security
  
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  June 21, 2020 9:55pm

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