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October 1, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 01 October 2020

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General Debate

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PhilBest

Today’s important read: I think this Michael Senger guy is right. Xi Jinping is a strategic genius of the kind that comes along only every so often in history.

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/china-covid-lockdown-propaganda

Sky News Australia distinguishes themselves as pretty much the only media consistently covering the news that matters most, by actually interviewing Senger.

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6192742875001

Xi has actually done the right thing inside China, IMHO. They didn’t eliminate the virus, they eliminated the panic. But Xi’s ploy has boosted the panic along nicely, along with misguided faith in lockdowns, in the rest of the world.
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October 1, 2020 8:01am
- PhilBest
  
  Very interesting point Senger makes, that countries that mistrust China, such as Taiwan and Japan and Korea, not only closed their borders early, but have been wisely skeptical about the Xi Lockdown Ploy.
  
  And something I was not aware of before, is that Sweden’s reluctance to fall for the lockdown ploy, is entirely consistent with a track record on their part, of defying China on principle.
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:03am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Thanks Phil. Very informative and enlightening!
    
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    October 1, 2020 10:29am
- freethinker
  
  If China (according to CCP) had about 4000 deaths than some explanation of how they managed that without a lock down. On the other hand just one of 49 Crematoria inn Wuhan received 10000 Urns (no info on the other 48) and they locked down Wuhan and other cities of 54 Million. Info out of Taiwan from people with relatives in China indicate deaths at 500,000, recent lock downs in the Beijing area indicate potential out break in that area. Bubonic plague is now spreading from Inner Mongolia and has already spread to Russia and CCP have lockdowns some towns in Mongolia. I am sure the NZ & Aussie press/MSM have widely reported this just I havn’t seen it, yet.
  
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  October 1, 2020 12:34pm
  - PhilBest
    
    Going by the evidence from everywhere else, it is not lockdowns that make the crucial difference, because every time they start to be lifted, the infections break out again. China has not done a “super effective lockdown” that stopped these new outbreaks forever, they have just taken on board that this virus is nowhere near as deadly as the alarmists make out. Even 200,000 deaths in the USA or Europe is not a disaster in the context of 300 million population and the normal annual mortality among a population that is skewed “old” anyway by demographic trends.
    
    500,000 “Covid deaths” in China in the context of more than a billion population, heavily skewed elderly by decades of “One Child” policy, probably wouldn’t even be a blip on annual Flu Season mortality. The CCP has worked this out and the rest of the world should have too.
    
    The 1918/19 pandemic killed 30 million of all ages within two seasons. Covid-19 is unlikely to reach 2 million in the same time frame; the average age of death is around 78; and the global population is 3.5 times higher. If you multiply out the aggregate of the average years of life lost, 1918/19 was hundreds of times worse than Covid-19. It was tens of times worse than “the normal flu season”; not an issue of hair-splitting debate over whether it is 10% worse or 15% worse or maybe even no worse than usual (in some places) – which is the case today.
    
    People are frighteningly ignorant of these simple realities. The speeches of Billy TK, for example, are the epitome of honest remedial fact-checking that make the MSM look like the “Pravda” that they are. For this, the “kind” socialists and the sell-out “centre righters” will join the chorus of condemnation of “dangerous misinformation”. Morally, these are times when the right thing to do is join the so-called “revolutionaries”. Good men doing nothing is the reason evil triumphs again and again.
    
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    October 1, 2020 3:01pm
    - towaka
      
      I don’t think the Chinese government has turned a blind eye to the virus Phil… here in Guangzhou there are still temperature checks everytime you get on the underground, buses or enter shopping malls.
      
      I just think the Chinese have done a good job of contact tracing and stamping out the virus everytime it flared up.. same as Taiwan but on a massive scale. Chinese government “stocks” have gone up with the general population from handling of the situation and it was an “awesome” thing seeing the party machinery kick into gear when the word came from Beijing to lockdown the country.
      
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      October 1, 2020 6:59pm
- towaka
  
  Just read Senger’s article and I think he gives to much emphasis on the power of the CCP to peddle influence in theWest, especially in the middle of the new Cold War.
  
  I wa in China during the lockdown and Senger’s was correct about the lack of any panic (plenty of toilet paper on the shelves at the local supermarket!)… this shows the difference in the media between the West and China and also maybe Chinese are more stoic by nature?
  
  As for what is really going on with Covid19?… as FDR said ” nothing happens in politics accidentally”.. so who has the most to benefit from the pandemic? My premise is the world’s central bankers… they can reset the world financial system that never recovered after the GFC and have the perfect cover of the pandemic. The repo market in Wall St going haywire in September last year gives weight to this argument. The really big question if this theory is correct… where does China fit in?
  
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  October 1, 2020 1:40pm
  - PhilBest
    
    I think it entirely plausible that China knows how to weaponise social media using its large numbers of CCP “keyboard warriors” and bots. That is really Senger’s argument. It doesn’t help that “Big Tech” is on the side of alarmism, as with progressives generally, on the hidden motive that it is a wonderfully exploitable “crisis”.
    
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    October 1, 2020 3:03pm
    - towaka
      
      You are getting into “Russia stole the election” territory Phil.. the thought that China could sway world opinion through social media and the reigning world Hegemon would allow this to happen is quite fanciful.
      In some ways I wish China did have more influence and you wouldn’t get the ghoulish fellows on here wishing for these 3 gorges dam to collapse etc!
      
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      October 1, 2020 7:44pm
Luke Piewalker

What a contrast between Judith and Cindy

Judith actual plan moving ahead
Cindy endless empty waffle
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October 1, 2020 8:04am
- Sigmund Freud
  
  So Cindy let rip the fact that she is stoned, rather than stuuupid.
  
  lol @ Ardhern and her fatuous followers.
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:19am
  - hullkiwi
    
    She also let slip there is a deal for Ihumatao. Calling a bit of land Heritage land, really. $50mill to Fletchers, and how many more Treaty deals to be reopened?
    
    And then she had the temerity to try and blame the Key/English government for her decision.
    
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    October 1, 2020 8:38am
    - Catgurl13
      
      Yep that was quite a big slip up. She let it be known what her intentions were with at comment. A stupid dangerous idiotic view she has.
      
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      October 1, 2020 8:54am
      - Nickc2
        
        They’ll be coming for your land next term of office. But, But, But, it’s all in the name of Maori Heritage. It’s all part the TOW! BULLSHIT, evict the trespassers and put their leaders on trial for trespass, theft and failing to obey Police instructions.
        
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        October 1, 2020 9:52am
      - sooty
        
        Bet it’s the Raglan golf course all over again!
        
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        October 1, 2020 10:06am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Yup, absolute bollocks. Wonder who the Minister in charge of Heritage NZ might happen to be?
      
      Oh, yes.
      
      Coincidence, I am sure.
      
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      October 1, 2020 9:11am
      - nathie
        
        Without looking it up, I thought it was reported that Ihumato was suddenly deemed a heritage site recently i.e. in the last few months/year ago or so, that is, since the protests escalated and after Ardern interfered by calling upon Fletcher’s to stop building?
        
        “Coincidence”? For sure!
        
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        October 1, 2020 9:44am
    - DeepBlue
      
      Base Unit in NZ is now measured per $50M here and $50M there. Remember back in 2019 when that was a lot of money.
      
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      October 1, 2020 10:05am
      - Parnell Gun Club
        
        $12M is back of the sofa money now.
        
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        October 1, 2020 10:53am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Sadly there will be plenty of guilt-ridden white woke liberal hand-wringers that think this is a brave, bold and ultimately kind decision.
      
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      October 1, 2020 11:26am
    - freethinker
      
      Hull
      I understand the Heritage status was only made after the occupation of the Land and some discussions, sounds like an attempt at a get out of jail card – donate cash to Goff who pays off the Mawree.
      
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      October 1, 2020 12:38pm
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    I loved the story Cindy told while waffling about Cannabis. She talked about a person she knows in jail who turned their lives around – that wouldn’t happen to be be the Dud Czech? Or maybe Richie Hardcore, would it?
    
    Asking for a friend!
    
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    October 1, 2020 9:10am
    - Catgurl13
      
      Yes but is looked like she made that up on the spot. Oh yeah some random is going to be talking to the PM while she’s out on one of her many walkabouts,and suddenly he reveals he’s a reformed cannibis smoker lol…sure!!!
      
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      October 1, 2020 9:37am
    - Nickc2
      
      Yep, the Dud Czech had Cindy on speed dial for a reason. It would appear it wasn’t the Minister of Immigration’s failure to read the department’s report and recommendation after all. I wonder if she really meant to let that slip?
      
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      October 1, 2020 10:39am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Reminds me of the patient who said they smoked weed to offset the effects of the schizophrenia medication. Turned out he was diagnosed as schizophrenic in his early twenties but started smoking weed as a teenager.
    
    He went cold turkey on both schizophrenia medication and weed, and was no longer schizophrenic.
    
    Cindy’s actions and communication always make me think she is on another planet. If she is a habitual smoker, she probably is.
    
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    October 1, 2020 10:35am
    - Unity
      
      It was probably the weed that made him schizophrenic in the first place. It damages immature brains – fact.
      
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      October 1, 2020 11:32am
      - IC5000
        
        They don’t know what causes schizophrenia. It may be a combination of risk factors such as brain composition, environmental and personal issues that makes a person more susceptible. There is no one causal factor responsible. Obviously you need to read further on the issue.
        
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        October 1, 2020 12:43pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @IC5000
        
        Who is “They”? Aliens? Kindy Kids? Labour?
        
        Because the internet and media is awash with mental deficiencies caused by mood altering drugs. All the medical sites have references. Ask any doctor.
        
        Unless you are under the age of 3, live down a rabbit hole, or are a hopeless addict, most intelligent people know mood altering drugs cause long term issues. Even prescribed medicines can create long term issues, which is why they all carry warnings.
        
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        October 1, 2020 4:42pm
- PhilBest
  
  “Lets Keep Moving”……Into Lockdown
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:25am
  - Catgurl13
    
    Let’s keep moving backwards into the already settled treaty settlements,which cost tax payers of NZ double what we have already paid out.
    
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    October 1, 2020 9:09am
  - C J Southern
    
    Let’s keep moving Labour out of office
    
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    October 1, 2020 9:23am
- Clyde
  
  A few major points for me.
  
  1 Adern refusing to say what she would vote for on the cannabis question. She smoked dope “a long time ago”. When is that? Yesterday, years ago, just before she went on set? A long time ago is relevant.
  2 Adern’s support for the Green School had nothing to do with “infrastructure” but everything to do with appeasing the hard left Green’s view of life. Shonky decision even disowned by the Greens.
  3 Compulsory teaching of East Polynesian language in schools. Adern wants to force this on kids – no question.
  4 The biggie. Adern wouldn’t force these families (mostly East Polynesians) to talk over who killed their kids. Collins has this one right. Put everyone in the offending family in jail until they decide to own up to what might be culturally ok for them but not ok for a decent modern society.
  
  I could go on, but I suspect floating voters would have been less impressed by Adern’s waffle than before the debate.
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:57am
  - C J Southern
    
    “A long time ago is relevant.”
    
    Agreed. It’s important. If we know how long ago she smoked it then we’ll have an excellent idea of how long it’s effects can disrupt normal thinking – judging by her current non-sensical “thinking”.
    
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    October 1, 2020 10:12am
    - Nickc2
      
      [Deleted and banned until after the elections. Mod.]
      
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      October 1, 2020 11:05am
    - Sacha
      
      “A long time ago is RELATIVE “. – according to the time span being discussed.
      
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      October 1, 2020 11:35am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    How about having confidence in Mr 1.61/5 (Twitford)
    to make him #4 in cabinet.
    Even Labour die hards, know he is at best an embarrassment.
    Serious judgement issues or is he genuinely better than the rest of the dregs at the bottom of the barrel?
    Either way it’s bad.
    
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    October 1, 2020 10:32am
    - Flossie
      
      Doesn’t say much about those #5 and beyond if he’s good enough for #4.
      
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      October 1, 2020 12:08pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  the other interesting tell was when asked about which leaders they admired.
  
  Cindy waffled and then ended up with the Prime Minister of Portugal – leader of the Socialist party there. (I guess Trudeau didn’t focus group up well, and she hoped noone had heard of Antonio Costa?)
  
  Judith went straight for Mutti Merkel, sound strategic choice!
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:16am
  - Parnell Gun Club
    
    She said she admired Angela Merkel? Really? Angela “Let them all come” Merkel? I missed that part of the debate but fuck me that’s a toxic answer.
    
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    October 1, 2020 11:02am
  - Catgurl13
    
    I’m surprised Cindy didn’t say Che Guevara!!!
    
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    October 1, 2020 11:59am
  - freethinker
    
    Nigel – I think the next year will show what an absolute mess Merkel has made for Germany and I reckon the German electors and industry will tell her in no uncertain terms. You also have the situation were the German constitutional court is fighting the German leader of the EU Van der Leyden and that’s not a good look as the point is essentially the power of the EU against the Power of the biggest EU member state. Follow the money to find the winner and it wont be the EU.
    
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    October 1, 2020 1:32pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  I was going to say:
  Substance (Judith) over Style (Jacinda)
  But it was substance and style over style
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:58am
- jv
  
  One is the real deal, directly answers what she believes.
  The other is a political operative who has to process each answer.
  
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  October 1, 2020 10:21am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Also, what a contrast between the first leader’s debate. Campbell was terrible in the first debate, making it all about him and how delighted he was to have Jacinda there – maaarvellous. Paddy was all over the place, with questions that sounded like half of them came from primary school kids, and others from a relationship counsellor.
  
  But Collins and Ardern were more animated (Cindy much more so than the first debate) and I felt Judith got the chance to show more of her personality, which has to be a good thing. Ardern tried to take a road both high and kind, and ended up with soundbites, clichés and meaningless platitudes. No surprises there.
  
  What we really want is Mike Hosking moderating the final debate.
  
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  October 1, 2020 11:37am
  - IC5000
    
    > What we really want is Mike Hosking moderating the final debate
    
    No, an actually journalist would be ideal
    
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    October 1, 2020 12:44pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Let journalists do what they do best (mostly interview their typewriters).
      
      Get someone in who knows how to interview people, and more importantly not let them get away with obfuscation.
      
      Someone like Mike Hosking. He’s been very good at it before, surprising even his rabid detractors.
      
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      October 1, 2020 4:45pm
gorse

With over 45,000 votes cast on the Herald website, 59% say Judith won last night’s debate. That’s got to be good. Also Newshub are running a poll asking if the debate would change who you voted for, currently 29% said yes. Hopefully away from Labour.
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October 1, 2020 8:08am
- hullkiwi
  
  There was another Newshub poll before the debate on leader combinations, 60% for Collins/Seymour versus 40% for Ardern/Shaw.
  
  Has the worm turned?
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:39am
  - Maxx
    
    What? No Ardern/Davis?
    
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    October 1, 2020 9:25am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Now, I’m sure that’s the start of a bad joke that I heard somewhere.
      
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      October 1, 2020 10:00am
      - Maxx
        
        Its a pity we can’t have a deputy leaders debate. Gerry v Kelvin. It would be just sad. Like kicking a puppy. Not even sport.
        
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        October 1, 2020 10:51am
    - Exclamation Mark
      
      Lol.
      
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      October 1, 2020 10:01am
      - Observer of Life
        
        Maxx: Double LOL
        
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        October 1, 2020 5:23pm
    - sooty
      
      Who?
      
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      October 1, 2020 10:12am
  - freethinker
    
    Hullkiwi – I noticed that too and also Toxic Tova was almost reasonable, the worm is turning!
    
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    October 1, 2020 1:35pm
- Thought Criminal
  
  DPF where was the debate discussion post?
  
  A rare slip from out generous host.
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:07am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    He was on a plane at the time wasn’t he?
    
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    October 1, 2020 11:33am
Catgurl13

No Nick we don’t want to pay this child, and these parents here on work visas don’t have a right to demand we do!!!. This is what happens when imports realise we have a generous welfare system. They need to to back home now. This child will be on disability as well as an adult eventually.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/122933641/smith-offers-assurance-to-family-of-nelson-girl-facing-deportation
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October 1, 2020 8:09am
- GJM
  
  Having got a son with those exact same issues, I feel for them, but i have to pay for the teacher aide, pediatrician and so on despite being a kiwi. The school can’t get funding for the teacher aide, so we pay for it and share the costs with others. We gave up on the public health system after pushing and getting nowhere for years.
  That is why we haven’t had a holiday for years, but you do what needs to be done.
  I don’t know what they do for a living, but if it is farm work, I doubt they could pay for the costs, and if NZ citizens can’t get help, working visitors are out of luck
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:26am
  - Catgurl13
    
    I’m all for helping our own people first which is what should happen as in your case. We have enough strain on our resources without people coming in who are only on work visas expecting that we owe them a life and to support their child with health issues. We don’t even have enough funds to support Kiwis let alone outsiders.
    
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    October 1, 2020 8:38am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    The world is tough and many people are suffering. We can’t look after everyone.
    
    When one has built up a small reasonably functional country, its citizens are the priority.
    
    Donations to overseas aid are great and I’m glad to contribute when I can, but immigration should be strictly according to NZ’s needs.
    
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    October 1, 2020 9:25am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Slight counter point
    Weren’t they brought here as ” essential workers”
    I assume jobs kiwi’s can’t do.
    They obviously brought their child with them and were not questioned at the boarder about her.
    If they had known this (their child would be evicted) at the time they would not have taken the job or if they had such a child the job would not have been offered.
    My question……who in immigration, stuffed this up? and
    I would rather use my compassion for this family and others like them, than any jailed drug dealer.
    
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    October 1, 2020 10:11am
    - IC5000
      
      > My question……who in immigration, stuffed this up?
      
      Does Immigration conduct psychological testing for autism?
      
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      October 1, 2020 12:50pm
- RRM
  
  ? Nick Smith is doing what I would expect an electorate MP to do, fight the government tooth and nail for his constituents.
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:27am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    That might explain why the good folk of Nelson have voted for Nick Smith as their MP every election since 1990. He goes into bat for his constituents, sometimes at significant personal and professional cost.
    
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    October 1, 2020 8:38am
    - kowtow
      
      There’s a sinister and dangerous backstory there. One the Media Party report as if they are isolated incidents when in fact they amount to what is a worrying aspect of politics in New Zealand.
      
      Hatred , expressed as violence.
      
      Smith has been the target of a number of personal physical attacks as well as attacks on his property.
      
      There’s extremism out there ,and it comes from the Looney Left.
      
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      October 1, 2020 8:44am
  - Swifty
    
    Got to disagree with you there RRM.
    
    I really wish NZ pollies would stay the hell away from immigration ’causes’ but of course I know why they love getting involved in them – these cases can make them look like white knights railing against a cruel and heartless government.
    
    Back to your point – what is a constituent? A citizen? A citizen or a resident? People who are eligible to vote? Someone who genuinely considers NZ ‘home’ above and beyond all other places?
    
    Or, does ‘constituent’ also include someone who is none of the above and who may just be passing through?
    
    The people in the article are clearly in the second camp and, possibly to my detriment, I do think it wrong of our pollies to be campaigning for causes that add to the taxpayer burden and to the benefit of people who aren’t even residents or citizens.
    
    I criticised Golriz et al for their championing of the Kurdish poet and to be consistent I must do the same here.
    
    FFS – it’s not as if Smith hasn’t got enough to do currently with this mess of a CoL.
    
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    October 1, 2020 8:42am
  - Catgurl13
    
    Yes but he is poking his nose into something he shouldn’t. Why should Kiwi taxpayers be expected to pay for resources for a child whose parents are on work visas?…..they will all say they intend to pay for the teacher aid just to stay here….no proof they will do it. It is also added burden on the school and health system. Faafoi poked his nose into something a couple years ago involving an Indian family who lied on their residency application about their severely handicapped son they intended on bringing here. They bought him here and then said his grandparents couldn’t look after him back home in India. We are paying for this adult child in his 20s who is severely retarded and disabled for the rest of his life by double, as we are paying his father a carers benefit and the boys disability benefit. When other Kiwis are getting turned away for medical help which is not fair.
    
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    October 1, 2020 8:48am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      It the duty of NZ MP’s to be on call to their electorate 25/7 being the highest paid social workers in the land.
      
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      October 1, 2020 9:33am
      - Catgurl13
        
        They are full.of it really. These ministers can choose not to get involved if they want to by saying it’s an immigration issue.
        
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        October 1, 2020 9:39am
    - Swifty
      
      I remember that case.
      
      It was a rort by the father from the get go and like suckers we fell for it.
      
      He left his son off the original residency app because he knew it would fail with the son on it – came here, lived for a while, then brought the son out and begged for his son to remain so he could suck on the taxpayer even more.
      
      The father was a deeply dishonest person, lied to us on his residency app, brought his son out here on a visitors visa knowing he wanted him to stay and played on our generosity and emotions to get his way.
      
      And we ended up rewarding him for his deceit.
      
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      October 1, 2020 9:40am
      - Catgurl13
        
        Ironically we ended up rewarding that lying father a care givers benefit as well as a invalids/ disability benefit for his 20 year old son now for the rest of his life. Thats about $1000 a week for 2 people. When many Kiwis are declined applications for help when they need it.
        
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        October 1, 2020 11:03am
    - C J Southern
      
      Of all the taxpayer dollars of mine that get wasted this is one situation where I’m happy to contribute.
      
      Sometimes a little human kindness is needed.
      
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      October 1, 2020 10:25am
      - Catgurl13
        
        That’s all well and good,but it opens the door for other families who see it being g sucessful who are here on work visas…..teacher aids are expensive, it’s also time disrupting the class. It’s also very hard to get that help. It should go to Kiwis first and not to people who just come here expecting to jump up the que.
        
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        October 1, 2020 10:54am
      - crikey
        
        There are plenty of local (within NZ) causes where human kindness can be directed. Let’s give priority to NZers and not import problems that in this case belong with India. We do not have to be the world’s saviours.
        
        The deceitfulness (as it appears to be) of the Indian man should be addressed.
        
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        October 1, 2020 1:43pm
      - C J Southern
        
        @Catgurl13
        Meh – if you put it in context the cost to each taxpayer is probably in the region of 1c per year per case. I’ll hapily chip in your 1c for the next year if you don’t want to.
        
        @crikey
        I’m sure there is – but at a total cost to the taxpayer of probably around 1c per year for situations like this we really don’t need to make a little human kindness THAT exclusive.
        
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        October 1, 2020 6:49pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    The question isn’t whether Nick “is doing what I would expect an electorate MP to do ”
    it’s
    Why aren’t other electorate MP’s doing it……
    Eh Mr Hipkins.
    
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    October 1, 2020 10:19am
    - Catgurl13
      
      MPs should keep their noses out of immigration issues.
      
      5 2
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      October 1, 2020 11:04am
oldpark

NZs second debate . Crusher Collins crushed Ngasher Ardern . Control Freak Ardern without her many many props like SLB Robertson and the other Clown Mallard as well as her Sycophantic Mainstream Media was really a SLG. Hard to believe NZs would put their lives and family futures in the inept inane Ardern .
Now that NZs Real Leader and a Real Prime Minister in waiting Judith Collins after the decisive and Nation winning Five Star Performance for Five Million NZs last night in the Second Debate why go past her . It has to be “TWO TICKS BLUE”.
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October 1, 2020 8:10am
- Thought Criminal
  
  Maybe a tick for yellow to keep spending in check.
  
  30 1
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  October 1, 2020 9:08am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    That Robbo’s problem. With his control now of the Reserve Bank the COL have access to far too much money. Parliament having sovereignty over taxpayer spending has gone–now it’s govt borrowing. If that is not to be repaid quickly: inflation+, if so where is the Parliaments oversight?
    ☑️☑️Prosperity with integrity.☑️☑️
    
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    October 1, 2020 9:39am
Maggie Pie

I watched the Debate last night.
Thought Judith was a class ACT.
One thing that did make me wonder, was whether TV3 had Weta Workshop apply the PM’s makeup?
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October 1, 2020 8:11am
- kowtow
  
  She’s in favour of removing the right to silence and of compulsory East Polynesian in schools.
  
  Faux conservative or focus group driven?
  
  Also failed to promise to get oil and gas going again.
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:18am
  - hmmokrightitis
    
    The Oil and Gas promise has been clearly made and is National policy.
    
    56 1
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    October 1, 2020 8:37am
    - kowtow
      
      All good , but there was a hot exchange about Taranaki in the debate and the time to put the boot in over “climate change” and how to put the regional and national economy on its feet was right there and then.
      
      She makes a very strong pitch for the farmers , and that’s great but there are other sectors that need the public endorsement from a purported strong leader and one of those is energy /mining .
      
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      October 1, 2020 9:01am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Puketifinau? There goes the Magna Carta.
    
    8 1
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    October 1, 2020 9:40am
- Tall Man
  
  Like helun, always looks like she got into granny’s makeup box without permission.
  
  42 2
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  October 1, 2020 8:21am
  - Observer of Life
    
    And visited an Op Shop for her clothes. They never seem to fit well.
    
    19 2
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    October 1, 2020 8:44am
    - Catgurl13
      
      That suit looked like something of 1980s Gloss!!
      
      4 1
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      October 1, 2020 11:06am
  - Catgurl13
    
    Yes very over done!
    
    11 2
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    October 1, 2020 8:56am
- Scooter
  
  I thought so too, same with the first debate, too much make up, looked it was applied with a blow torch.
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:50am
- Nickc2
  
  Agree. If one was a Botox importer, one could retire really early, and that’s just marketing to politicians.
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:05am
- dave_c_
  
  Indeed a ‘class act’ in terms of both ‘ability’, and ‘credibilty’.
  One of them was screeching and flailing the arms around, whilst the other talked calmly and convincingly, dismantled nearly all of Arderns claims.
  
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  October 1, 2020 12:11pm
iMP

The NZ Debate was very interesting. NZ poll (Newshub) had it 57-43 to Judith. Some interesting results…

1. Jacinda backs the Green School 12 mill
2. Jacinda has an opinion on abortion & euthanasia but can’t declare on cannabis. That is just weird.
3. I think the more NZ sees Aunty Judith (“dear”) the more they are warming to her.

Expect a big Nat. post-debate poll nudge.
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October 1, 2020 8:12am
- hmmokrightitis
  
  Agree.
  
  The $12M call was huge, and I suspect will bite her.
  
  My teens thought the lack of a call on weed interesting too. For me there is a reason, and the media should be digging as to find out why. [ ]
  
  Judith showed her sense of humour last night, which I think will go down a treat with NZ’ers – we like people who are gently funny, and not a little self-deprecating. Shades of Key in that, particularly around the Vogue cover comment. The “dear” comment had us all rolling in the aisle.
  
  But the biggy for me was around Seymour for Deputy. A huge and very bold call, and I expect to see ACT’s % rise even further on the back of it. A huge hand grenade lobbed over the top, particularly when faced with the alternate of either Kelvin or Winston. You choose: competent, principled, thoughtful, erudite vs. corrupt, deceitful, incompetent and hidden through embarrassment.
  
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  December 1, 2019 8:20am
  - Crisplion
    
    Seymour for Deputy PM!
    
    Party vote ACT!
    
    36 2
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    October 1, 2020 8:44am
  - hmmokrightitis
    
    Dear Mods / DPF. Recognise that you’ve censored my comment, as is your right. Care to explain why? [ Pollie families are off limits. So are lawnmowers in this context. ]
    
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    October 1, 2020 10:26am
    - hmmokrightitis
      
      Thanks for the response, an interesting one.
      
      Just for the record:
      
      I made no direct reference to family. I did reference, as you note, lawn mowing (hence interesting that you’d remove my reference and then repeat it?) and a social event.
      
      But I promise I wont mention lawn mowing again. Or the war. 😀
      
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      October 1, 2020 11:31am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        You did once, but I think you got away with it . . .
        
        3 1
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        October 1, 2020 12:51pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  “1. Jacinda backs the Green School 12 mill”
  
  Did she explain why?
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:15am
  - Tall Man
    
    Would she even know why?
    
    52 2
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    October 1, 2020 8:20am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Didn’t Jacinda Ardern meet with one of the owners of the Green School in 2019?
      
      Hon Judith Collins: Did the Prime Minister tell him if she’d met with Green School co-founder Rachel Perrett to discuss the future of education in New Plymouth in 2019?
      
      Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: No.
      
      SPEAKER: Question No. 4—
      
      Hon Judith Collins: No, no—
      
      SPEAKER: Sorry.
      
      Hon Judith Collins: Sorry. Does he know if Green School co-founders Rachel and Michael Perrett met with the Prime Minister or communicated with her about the school on any other occasion?
      
      SPEAKER: No, I think we’re now getting to the point of knowledge of areas outside the Minister’s responsibility.
      
      Q.3. https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20200902_20200902_12
      
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      October 1, 2020 9:05am
    - Crisplion
      
      Probably because it was all her idea in the first place. I seriously doubt that Shaw acted unilaterally.
      
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      October 1, 2020 12:21pm
  - iMP
    
    “It was the right thing to do,” “It’s infrastructure…and we gave $3bill to all other schools,” “Cabinet signed off on it.”
    
    46 2
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    October 1, 2020 8:23am
    - Catgurl13
      
      She couldn’t be more wrong,it was the wrong thing to do. But she had to save face when asked that question last night. Trying to sound all confident and knowing.
      
      58 2
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      October 1, 2020 8:27am
      - Flossie
        
        On that one she just came across as defiant… and a little bit “because I said so!”
        
        13 1
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        October 1, 2020 10:49am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      And the only school in Cindy’s electorate she could name was Mt Albert grammar!
      
      I think Judith pinned her on that. What a hard working local mp!
      
      60 1
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      October 1, 2020 8:29am
      - Catgurl13
        
        Yes like MT Albert Grammar needs any more funding help!, Most parking parking outside in Audis.
        
        22 2
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        October 1, 2020 9:11am
      - JackRabbit
        
        She also forgot about all the teachers watching that are pissed off with a private school getting money thrown at them, while their school goes without.
        
        Cindy also forgot the prime reason we fund education is for improving children’s education, not investing in private property developments, or helping out Green mates with cash. Something most teachers know very well, but something that escapes Cindy.
        
        Cindy also does not acknowledge, that most schools are expected, and have to do, substantial fund raising for new amenities, projects, or out of town trips (suspended during lockdown), which requires selfless out of school hours commitment by teachers, students, and parents.
        
        And here she is dishing out up to 50 times more than any equivalent size school was to receive under the extra Labour state school infrastructure funding, as part of the 19Bn Robberson borrowed late last year.
        
        To make it worse, they are not a state school, the founders have their own dosh, and its a business charging premium fees. Those kids and their parents must feel really self entitled if they cannot get off their backsides to fund raise.
        
        Last night, in one fell swoop, defending the $12M, Cindy she has killed off a huge chunk of her parent and teacher support base she was too unaware, and too unemphatic, to even know existed.
        
        Cindy, education is about children, not supporting property developers! Last night you pissed off a lot of people. Expect to be put in detention on election day.
        
        35 2
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        October 1, 2020 9:26am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Hear hear!
        
        3 1
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        October 1, 2020 12:54pm
    - Swifty
      
      None of those statements constitute an argument, a rationale, you’ll notice.
      
      I see this more and more from the NZ left – assertions and statements of process, masquerading as rationale.
      
      They’re not.
      
      46 1
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      October 1, 2020 8:30am
      - JackRabbit
        
        So true.
        
        – details not specifics.
        – process not outcomes.
        
        And “we need to…” rather than a specific plan…
        
        Which crystallizes all of Labour’s failures
        
        We need to plant 1Bn trees
        We need to build 100,000 houses
        We need to reduce suicides
        We need to reduce child poverty
        We need your money
        We need …
        We need …
        We need …
        You need to comply…
        Resistance is futile…
        We are Laborg…
        
        Get rid of the Laborg Queen, and the Laborg Drones will revert to their former selves…
        
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        October 1, 2020 9:05am
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        Hang on: “I refute that”…..
        
        I don’t think Cindy quite understands what refute means.
        
        On the school keeping the dosh, I was bewildered by the answer. Why double down on such an obvious loser proposition, when she was nailed on other low decile schools with real needs?
        
        I guess there are minutes of a conversation somewhere?
        
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        October 1, 2020 9:19am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        On the same theme, they also say “I refute that” when criticised or called out. Just saying “I refute that” is not an argument 🙂 High school debating teams don’t do that.
        
        19 1
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        October 1, 2020 10:15am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Benedict Yu
        
        Cindy doesn’t know that high school teams don’t do that because she has not yet reached that stage of mental development yet.
        
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        October 1, 2020 4:34pm
    - Jimmy White
      
      It’s always someone else’s fault. This is why, if she wins, she will need to go into a coalition with the Greens so she can have a ‘Blame’ puppet.
      
      38 2
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      October 1, 2020 8:34am
      - Piniwi
        
        Right Jimmy as the PTPM rises ever higher on her pedestal from the adulation of an adoring crowd the cracks are becoming more apparent. Apparently she has not “considered” the prospect of governing alone as has been speculated by the MSM based on high poll results. This may well be an even more daunting outcome for her by not having coalition partners to lay the blame of failures on from “not being able to reach a consensus” between the COL partners.
        Early policy movements were largely made with a lot of bartering or as the O&G captains call bending to pressure group whims. Or as in that case using that pressure to hide behind while creating a point scoring event to trumpet on the world stage. Then again it might be even more simply because their internal polling would make this a pipe/bong dream.
        
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        October 1, 2020 3:16pm
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Look at it one way
      She’s a day late and a dollar short
      $11.5mill x 2500 schools = $28.75bill (not $3bill)
      or
      $3bill /2500 schools = $1.2mill 1/10th as much.
      or
      200 jobs (temporary) is $57 000 per job…
      How many construction people would work for $28/hr average
      excluding cogs/raw materials and land purchase
      If we say the infrastructure costs for cogs/raw materials and land purchase was say 1/3 of the total so about $8mill left for wages etc
      it now becomes $40000 per job
      ie $19/hr…less than the minimum wage….now who’s working?
      
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      October 1, 2020 10:53am
  - kowtow
    
    yeah , she said infrastructure ,200 jobs.
    
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    October 1, 2020 8:24am
    - mandk
      
      This 200 jobs figure is a real nonsense.
      
      At best it is 200 years’ worth of employment during the period of the construction, not permanent jobs.
      
      And then it depends on a supposed multiplier effect.
      
      And even then it assumes that it would not be possible to create exactly the same effect by spending the money on something else.
      
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      October 1, 2020 8:42am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Education funding is about improving children’s education, not funding property developers.
        
        14 1
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        October 1, 2020 9:43am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      $11.7 m divided between 200 jobs is less than $60 k per job, leaving nothing for any of the construction materials, earthworks, legal fees, consents, architects, fit-out, desks/chairs/tables etc.
      
      The 200 jobs figure is complete BS, as is the claim it falls under “infrastructure”. This is more of a trough-ready project than a shovel-ready one.
      
      6 1
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      October 1, 2020 12:02pm
  - mark15
    
    Captain’s call?
    Soundbite?
    Trite nonsense?
    Feelz?
    Pick.
    
    35 1
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    October 1, 2020 8:27am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    and blah,blah,blah and it creates jobs.
    
    24 1
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    October 1, 2020 8:28am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    “It is going to create 200 jobs”
    
    26 1
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    October 1, 2020 8:30am
    - Swifty
      
      Minus the 200 lost by taking the funds from NZers pockets to begin with.
      
      36 1
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      October 1, 2020 8:31am
    - Chris R
      
      Maggy: 200 TEMPORARY jobs at that. I simply and utterly detest Ardern with her sugary gasping, slogans and evasions.
      
      56 1
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      October 1, 2020 8:34am
      - Nickc2
        
        200 workers to build a bloody school? Gimme a break FFS. Are they going to have 150 of them on holiday at any one time?
        
        24 1
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        October 1, 2020 9:14am
      - Swifty
        
        Nickc2 – included in the ‘200 jobs’ will be sparkies, for example, doing a couple of weeks on site.
        
        They will count as 1 ‘job’ each – irrespective of the length of their engagement. I saw Jones admit it in a quote recently.
        
        18 1
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        October 1, 2020 9:45am
      - nathie
        
        NickC2 – good point! Even 50 builders to build a school seems excessive (but way more realistic than 200), so maybe the other 150 jobs are for:
        
        *Artists (to paint green-themed murals)?
        *Graffiti artists (to paint some “contemporary hip/cool street art”)?
        *Shepherds (to control the sheep/goats keeping the grass down … can’t use petrol ride-on mowers at a “green” school of course)!
        *A “Car Inspector” (to check that parents are dropping their kids off using EV cars/enforce the banning of petrol/diesel vehicles)?
        *Someone to pickup horse droppings (for staff that will use a horse cart and buggy, as the “ultimate carbon-neutral method” to get to and from school)?
        *Oh and 100 workers to build the Green Party funded railway line to the school so that in a few years parents will use a train, not even EV cars as they reinforce “individualism” not “collectivism”, the comrades ideal choice for all transport?
        
        15 1
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        October 1, 2020 10:08am
      - Nickc2
        
        @ Swifty 9:45AM
        TKS for that. Point taken. It’s not 200 for the duration of the job.
        
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        October 1, 2020 10:21am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        Nickc2
        Where has it been written, that the “infrastructure” she talks about, requiring 200 jobs, is actually a school build project.
        What EXACTLY is this money for?
        
        4 1
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        October 1, 2020 11:05am
    - Jimmy White
      
      200 jobs for six months then 200 more on the JSB.
      
      19 1
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      October 1, 2020 8:35am
      - crikey
        
        And the 200 jobs (even if that number is needed) will not be new jobs. It sounds like a lot of double-counting (should I say ‘double duty’) if sub-contractors are brought in from existing jobs.
        
        3 1
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        October 1, 2020 1:58pm
    - rouppe
      
      No it’s not. It’s going to continue the existing employment of 190 trades people who are going to leave that site once it’s finished
      
      18 2
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      October 1, 2020 8:36am
      - Swifty
        
        Exactly.
        
        They treat us with contempt.
        
        13 1
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        October 1, 2020 8:49am
    - herb1
      
      Based on 180 of the jobs being construction at a cost of $12,000,000 then each job costs $66,600.
      in 208 the construction industry was worth $39 billion.
      Using Jacindas figures that should create 585,000 jobs.
      Somehow I don’t think thats correct Cindy
      
      4 1
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      October 1, 2020 11:00am
  - Ruawai
    
    JA said she backed the Green school getting the 12 million as it would create 200 jobs for infrastructure building but so would giving money to all schools, private or public, and I don’t see her giving any money to Kings College!!
    
    20 1
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    October 1, 2020 8:39am
  - hullkiwi
    
    No she ran away from answering, wanted to answer when infrastructure was discussed, but didn’t.
    
    15 1
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    October 1, 2020 8:46am
  - Rich Prick
    
    A big piece of pork to keep the Greens slightly happier than their usual setting which is miserable.
    
    28 1
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    October 1, 2020 8:55am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      But what if the Greens enjoy being miserable?
      
      Would that make them happy?
      
      Then what would they do all day?
      
      16 1
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      October 1, 2020 9:20am
    - Ehlana
      
      Rich Prick, I don’t think Greens eat pork – not even the free range stuff. Not good for the environment – pigs fart and they make mud, just like cows.
      
      Maybe that is why they are miserable?
      
      4 1
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      October 1, 2020 12:23pm
  - nathie
    
    Now we know that Ardern backs the Green school, that might help explain why Shaw was emboldened to waste $12m of taxpayer funding – James knows that Jacinda has his back!
    
    So is this another (illogical) Ardern Captain’s Call?
    
    Hmmm wonder if the Teacher unions (and NP schools principals) are now upset with Ardern and her revelation? Hipkins will need to start spinning again to defend this his Dear Leader, oh dear!
    
    21 1
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    October 1, 2020 8:57am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Price to get the Green’s buy-in at the election – $12m.
      
      Time taken to defend what is clear corruption on nationwide TV – 60 seconds.
      
      Losing the election as a result – priceless!
      
      19 2
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      October 1, 2020 9:50am
  - lifesgood
    
    We all know why. Winston is toast…she needs the Greens.
    
    18 1
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    October 1, 2020 9:07am
  - Close Hen Counters
    
    She said it made 200 jobs
    
    3 1
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    October 1, 2020 12:20pm
- Tricati
  
  Bloody hope so – Judith is genuine, whereas Cindy is media created personality, similar to the Kardashin’s, and about as shallow.
  
  69 1
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  October 1, 2020 8:16am
  - yossarian
    
    Jacinda should be nervous, as I would imagine that the attention span of those type of folk is pretty short. We are actually already seeing it.
    
    Chloe Shawbrick is pasted over MSM nearly every day, far more than warranted from a failed mayor candidate and minor party list MP. Have the lovelies in the media found their new darling???
    
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    October 1, 2020 10:26am
- PhilBest
  
  Right on about Judith. Maggie Thatcher was genuinely lovable as a person too.
  
  45 2
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  October 1, 2020 8:26am
  - mandk
    
    Margaret Thatcher also had a vision (stop Britain being a basket case and restore its place in the world) and a plan (reduce the powers of the Unions and let enterprise work).
    
    And she actually delivered.
    
    35 1
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    October 1, 2020 8:46am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    PB
    
    Maggie T wrote personal letters to the families of people killed in the Falklands,
    
    20 1
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    October 1, 2020 8:50am
- kowtow
  
  “2. Jacinda has an opinion on abortion & euthanasia but can’t declare on cannabis. That is just weird.”
  
  Proudly promotes bumping off babies and grannies but silent on dope . Very weird.
  
  But then the audience gave her a huge hurrah when she said she had smoked dope , strange crowd.
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:27am
  - JackRabbit
    
    If she admitted she is in favour, she would have alienated herself with the 2/3 of NZ that will not vote for it.
    
    “Oh hell yes Tom, I’m in favour of legalising marijuana. I smoke every day and look at me. I’m as cool as a cucumber. If fact I’m more calmer this debate than the last one because I had a couple right before the debate.”
    
    “Smoke free by 2025 – yes still on track, marijuana does not create smoke or Co2. Just ask Greta.”
    
    19 2
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    October 1, 2020 9:40am
  - Flossie
    
    An undecided crowd? I don’t think so!
    
    9 1
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    October 1, 2020 10:57am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    “But then the audience gave her a huge hurrah when she said she had smoked dope , strange crowd.”
    Applause for whatever Jacinda said was louder tha for Judith.
    BUT I thought this was an audience of undecided voters.
    The Labour party organized dishonesty to flood the meeting? and
    National too trusting to not do the same?
    
    10 1
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    October 1, 2020 11:10am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      and Jacinda still lost the debate.
      
      15 1
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      October 1, 2020 11:10am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  At least last night’s debate illustrated clearly that our PM ‘s performance the week before was lacklustre and feeble.
  
  Personally, I think our PM is lazy and that showed last week as she tried to waffle her way through the “debate”.
  
  By contrast, Judith is on the ball consistently with facts and clear comments.
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:29am
- peterwn
  
  ie Jacinda is too scared stiff to take a position on Cannabis for fear of losing votes.
  MSM is saying it was a ‘draw’, perhaps the $50M is continuing to work its magic.
  
  48 1
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  October 1, 2020 8:30am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    I suspect the Pasifika communities have pretty strong views on the devastation that drugs cause.
    
    She pushed them hard on gay rights, Trans rights and then abortion on demand, but they stayed in the reservation, could this be one push towards state sanctioned degeneracy too many?
    
    I see the Catholic Church has come out against Labour. Will the Wesleyans and the evangelicals be next?
    
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    October 1, 2020 9:22am
- hullkiwi
  
  And Jacinda agrees it was morally wrong for companies to take the wage subsidy, lay off staff and declare large profits, but is not prepared to take back taxpayer funds from these corporations.
  
  Is that because the likes of Stephen Tindall and Phillip Mills have donated to the Labour party in the past? Just asking.
  
  But we do know Jacinda is in favour of the wage subsidy, she just wouldn’t answer Paddy Gower’s question.
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:45am
  - Close Hen Counters
    
    Well I wonder if she will be interested that at the end of the first lockdown, in Auckland alone, 41 Ferraris were ordered … companies given the gift of free money to pay their employees left plenty of dosh to upgrade the car, not to mention boat buying – it is appalling that our children, grandchildren will be paying for this extravagance because of lax rules
    
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    October 1, 2020 12:26pm
- Mummy
  
  I think she will be voting yes to cannabis but doesn’t want to tell us because it might alienate a lot of voters who disagree with it.
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:51am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    My 12 year old daughter was watching the news and when they showed numerous clips of Jacinda evading the cannabis question said Jacinda will be voting Yes for it. Made me smile that even she can see through her.
    
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    October 1, 2020 10:06am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Ardern can declare on cannabis but won’t. The referendum is bait to catch the youth vote and greens. (Bonus is a new source of taxes to cover the falling tobacco receipts.)
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:43am
- Observer of Life
  
  iMP: Agree re 2.
  Seems weird that she is happy to tell us what she will be voting re EoL bill etc, but when it comes to Dope – oooh no. That might influence people! WTF
  
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  October 1, 2020 5:30pm
Happychappy

If this had been National and they spouted incorrect figures on child poverty one news fact finder would be crowing out so loud that National had misled the country on figures they knew were wrong.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/aap-election-fact-check-can-jacinda-ardern-claim-success-child-poverty-trends
But no Jacinda has been allowed to get away with lying to the voter again because Treasury and statistics have not been so honest in evaluating th figures over the last three years. I thought the public service was supposed to be neutral and do what’s asked or say the figures are not available instead of trying to stitch up National.
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October 1, 2020 8:16am
Tony Stuart

Simon Wilson called the debate a draw. Therefore you can take it as read that #JudithWon
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October 1, 2020 8:18am
- Swifty
  
  Heh.
  
  True.
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:32am
- kingerstinger
  
  Ditto, Luke Malpass.
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:36am
- gravedodger
  
  Wondering if at 3/4 time the PTPM was wimpering in a foetal position at the feet of Paddy Gower with an empathetic Judith Collins looking on, how would S.Wilson judge it.
  That said as no admirer of Mr Gower I gave him a 8/10.
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:22am
- hullkiwi
  
  Stuff also called it a draw. Jacinda was losing by the time they started debating the Covid wage subsidy.
  
  Jacinda wasn’t getting her points across and ended up looking foolish over the wage subsidy. After this she struggled to answer questions with straight answers, except to admit she had smoked dope.
  
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  October 1, 2020 11:07am
Scooter

So how will the proposed travel between NZ and Aus work, no more quarantine? If Jacinda is so desperate to have elimination then how will she do that without a quarantine for visitors arriving in NZ.
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October 1, 2020 8:22am
- Jimmy White
  
  The same way the Travel with other countries works.
  You buy a fake negative test, travel to NZ and they suddenly immaculately catch Covid after three days in isolation.
  
  18 2
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  October 1, 2020 8:42am
  - HeatherW
    
    12 positive tests in MIQ today. Ten from same flight from India possibly caught on the flight.
    
    1 1
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    October 1, 2020 1:17pm
    - Observer of Life
      
      Sorry but I believe anyone boarding a flight to NZ should have to be tested 48 hours out, and if a positive result they can’t board. Yep, there will always be fake test results, but as long as they still arrive to quarantine, then we hopefully will have less landing here with the flu.
      
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      October 1, 2020 5:34pm
- fernglas
  
  It won’t work. We’re stuffed
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:47am
- Max
  
  Scooter Qld with a similar population 5.11 million without a full lockdown did better than NZ both in testing and deaths, sadly for them 6 deaths. I believe the NT is virtually free of Covid. So why not if we all take a test before travel with only negative results getting on the plane. Forget Victoria.
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:51am
Catgurl13

Why is Jacinda so scared to reveal which way she is leaning in the Cannibis referendum?. Of course she is for it we know, does she really think we are that stupid?
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October 1, 2020 8:22am
- kingerstinger
  
  Best bit was “My vote is your vote, Paddy”
  
  I’m fairly certain Paddy will be voting yes.
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:37am
  - Catgurl13
    
    Yes exactly!!
    
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    October 1, 2020 9:29am
  - Raphael
    
    If I recall correctly Paddy is on record saying he doesn’t vote so he can remain as impartial as possible on political matters.
    (although it could have been Garner who said that….or both of them)
    
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    October 1, 2020 12:29pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Why, yes she does.
  
  The principled answer would be, “A lot of young people see me as a role model. I cannot in good conscience allow myself to be seen as influencing their vote. You have to make your own minds on this one guys. Consult your conscience, and think very hard before you vote.”
  
  The unprincipled answer, … [Mod. says amusing, yes, but not here sorry] so she has to dance on a pin here.
  
  🙂
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:27am
lifesgood

Surprised that Hosking only begrudgingly gave Judith the win and then modified it by suggesting it was really a draw. Wtf! Is he angling for a job somewhere or something? Judith ran rings around the hapless Ardern, although, to be fair, Miss Ardern really upped her performance this time. Much as I dislike Gower he did do a good job, way better than Campbell.
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October 1, 2020 8:25am
- rouppe
  
  I don’t think any rings were run.
  
  Judith was sharp, but potentially a bit haphazard looking for hits.
  
  Jacinda was better but still a bit on the back foot, except for early on, which makes me wonder whether the earlier topics are the one she is most sensitive about.
  
  There wasn’t anything really substantive from either of them that grabbed my attention.
  
  Still voting ACT
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:42am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  How hard is it to be better than Campbell?
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:51am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    I have to be fair here. I went in thinking that Gower was a wanker on par with Campbell.
    
    I came out with “grudging new respect” ™
    
    He did an excellent job as the moderator. Cut the crap, made them both answer the question, and actually made the second half fun!
    
    Gower just made himself the best moderator in NZ. Different style, but easily as good as Hosking last time. Credit where credit is due.
    
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    October 1, 2020 9:29am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Gower is still a wanker tho’
      
      You can roll a turd in glitter . . .
      
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      October 1, 2020 1:06pm
Hard Cheese

My favourite line of the night

PG: “Is Phil Twyford an asset or a liability?”
JC to JA: “He’s an asset for me and a liability for you”
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October 1, 2020 8:33am
- peterwn
  
  The gift that keeps on giving.
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:44am
- Swifty
  
  Hahahaha!
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:46am
- Jax30
  
  Yip, priceless
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:18am
- Catgurl13
  
  That was such a zinger line!!!
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:30am
  - sooty
    
    That carpark puddle sure is shallow, when you have put Phill in at number 4 and it says alot bout the ability of the rest!
    
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    October 1, 2020 10:33am
Ruahine

So it is true after all.
Ardern IS a cannabis smoker.
The worst kept secret in Auckland. However something not previously known in Wellington.
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October 1, 2020 8:34am
- Ruawai
  
  JA said “read between the lines” last night about her drug use and that she is a “tree hugging lefty”.
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:42am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Her father told her she was a tree hugging lefty. Obviously no love lost there.
    
    8 2
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    October 1, 2020 9:54am
- SGA
  
  Ardern IS a cannabis smoker.
  
  meh – what I heard her say was that she said had smoked it in the past (like thousands and thousands of other NZers, I certainly tried it a few times back in the day – wasn’t my thing). At least she didn’t try Bill Clinton’s “but I didn’t inhale” cop out.
  
  To be honest, it wouldn’t bother me overly if some of our MPs still enjoyed an occasional puff. Heavens knows they couldn’t make bigger idiots of themselves that some of politicans do after they’ve had a few drinks (early election anyone?).
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:25am
  - Okahu
    
    Nicely played. Still recall the despair on Sue Wood’s face as the drunken thug Muldoon announced that the country would be having a schnapps election, hiccup.
    
    5 1
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    October 1, 2020 12:12pm
- nathie
  
  Well Ardern did qualify that by saying “it was a long time ago”.
  
  Well exactly what is “a long time ago”?
  
  30+ years ago, is a long time ago … but that would mean Ardern was under 10 years old, so clearly it wasn’t 30+ years ago.
  
  So I take it she meant “10-20 years ago” (when she was 20-30 years old. So is that really “a long time ago”?
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:37am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    To an addict a long time ago is yesterday.
    Not implying anything just pointing out that when it comes to addictive substances the term “a long time ago” is utterly meaningless.
    
    9 2
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    October 1, 2020 10:38am
    - Bullion
      
      Your title suggests you are of a libertarian persuasion. Wouldn’t a libertarian want the liberalisation of drugs and allow the individual to decide what they consume?
      
      So connecting Ardern’s quote of a “a long time ago” with “an addict a long time ago is yesterday”; as in Ardern is a regular user, shouldn’t a libertarian just butt out of people’s lives?
      
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      October 1, 2020 11:57am
  - SGA
    
    Well exactly what is “a long time ago”?
    30+ years ago, is a long time ago
    
    To take your question seriously – I think it depends on how old you are. When I was 15 yrs, 5 years ago felt like a long time ago, at 40 yrs, 20 years ago felt like a long time. Nowdays, well – not saying.
    Picking “30 years” out of air is a bit arbitrary.
    
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    October 1, 2020 11:00am
Natfan08

That was an excellent debate performance by Judith! Even a more fired up Cindy couldn’t beat her.

I watching the debate with my wife, my parents and my sister – my wife, my sister and my mum (swing voters) thought Judith’s answers were clear & crisp with alot of detail and offered more solutions whereas they thought Cindy didn’t give a straight answer.

This is where Cindy lost the debate for swing voters:

1) Defending the private Green school (seriously like wtf)
2) Not being able to give convincing answer as to why bigger companies are taking advantage of the wage subsidy
3) Being unable to state her position on cannabis

Am I missing any more points? Also What are your predictions for the next poll after last night’s debate?
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October 1, 2020 8:37am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Labour 41
  National 38
  ACT 12
  Green 4
  NZF 1
  Others 4
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:55am
  - Natfan08
    
    that would be a dream!
    
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    October 1, 2020 8:57am
    - Prince
      
      It is a dream. If Nats make 41% ACT would be around 5% at best. Could be enough but probably not unless NZF climb to 4%.
      
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      October 1, 2020 9:53am
      - WaveyDavey
        
        Yep Labour needs to be under 45% to fail to win
        
        Don’t see it happening
        
        https://elections.nz/stats-and-research/mmp-seat-allocation-calculator/
        
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        October 1, 2020 11:44am
      - WaveyDavey
        
        Also don’t bank on Labour not pulling their candidate from Akl Central at the last moment
        
        4 1
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        October 1, 2020 11:45am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Labour mid-40s (46-47)
    National mid-30s (33-36)
    ACT under 10 (7-9)
    Green just (5-6)
    NZF gone (1-3)
    Others wasted (1-9)
    
    Seats
    Lab 61-58
    Nat 42-45
    ACT 9-11
    Green 8-6
    
    Hard-left government coming
    
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    October 1, 2020 9:27am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Along with a massive wage price spiral.
      ☑️☑️No wage price spiral .☑️☑️
      
      20 1
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      October 1, 2020 9:48am
- rockape
  
  Labour 44
  National 38
  ACT 7
  All others under 5% so irrelevant
  
  End result
  Nat/ACT 50.5%
  Labour 49.5%
  
  15 1
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  October 1, 2020 9:25am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Nah the Greens are going to make it
    
    Nobody seems to have picked up Robbo’s tax masterstroke – driving the disaffected left of his party to the Greens as a protest vote that still counts in their favour
    
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    October 1, 2020 9:44am
Maggy Wassilieff

One of the disappointing things about last night’s analysis of the debate undertaken by Tova’s talking head panel, is that the panel belittled Collin’s support for President Trump’s peace-making attempts in the Middle East.

Sherson said the clanger for Collins was around her comments on Trump and how she praised him for his actions on peace in the Middle East. Sherson said those comments by Collins were not necessary.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/10/nz-election-2020-reaction-to-leaders-debate-between-jacinda-ardern-judith-collins.html

Collins stated clearly that she thinks not having wars is a good thing.

I find it extremely disturbing that the lefties on Tova’s panel see this as a flaw in Collins’ politics.
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October 1, 2020 8:39am
- kowtow
  
  Shows the commentariats bias .
  
  Unless you can show you detest Trump ,you are not pure, you are unworthy.
  
  It’s akin to the Cultural Revolution and public denunciation ,unless you toe the party line ,nay , unless you enthusiastically embrace and declare the party line.
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:50am
- rouppe
  
  I was disappointed that Mihi Forbes just banged on about not having anything targeted at Maori.
  
  That’s disappointing though not surprising I guess given her audience.
  
  How do we get to a point in nz where we are all seen equally under the law and any largesse is needs based and not tainted by race, religion, etc…
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:50am
  - Catgurl13
    
    [Deleted – not on it’s own. Mod.]
    
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    October 1, 2020 9:31am
  - Catgurl13
    
    It’s a shame people like Mihi don’t use their connection to their own people while in television,to encourage them.to do the right thing. It seemed like she was defending families bought into the spotlight who are not complying with our laws.
    
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    October 1, 2020 12:05pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Oh Grief..
  Luke Malpass thinks it is “a bit weird” than Collins supports Trump for not having taken the USA into a war.
  
  She even thought Donald Trump was pretty good for not taking the US into a war. That was a bit weird.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/122943302/election-debate-verdict-ardern-and-collins-draw-in-round-two-but-is-the-die-already-cast
  
  Finally USA has a President who is not a war-monger and the Left in NZ can’t seem to realise that that is a good thing.
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:14am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Pop quiz.
    Has the number of US military personnel in the middle east this year:
    a. increased?
    b. decreased?
    
    1 15
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    October 1, 2020 11:01am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      U.S. Periods of War and Dates of
      Recent Conflicts
      https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RS21405.pdf
      
      No engagement in new conflicts since Oct 15 2014.
      
      6 1
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      October 1, 2020 1:18pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        And no end to the existing conflicts either.
        
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        October 1, 2020 2:12pm
    - rouppe
      
      I note you say “this year”.
      
      The real measure is “over his term of presidency” and I think the answer there is “less”.
      
      3 2
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      October 1, 2020 3:17pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Exact numbers are not available, but the US had about 21,000 deployed Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria in January 2020, and about 68,000 in the wider region. This was before the increase in numbers after the latest contretemps with Iran.
        In September 2017 there were about 26,ooo in those three countries, and 53,000 in the wider region.
        
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        October 1, 2020 4:08pm
- Nickc2
  
  Yes, I believe that pannel was bussed in from Auckland University (sarc).
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:27am
  - kowtow
    
    And quite a few still wearing their muzzles.
    
    8 3
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    October 1, 2020 11:28am
- Observer of Life
  
  Didn’t the great Cindy also say that ending war wasn’t that important! Really?
  
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  October 1, 2020 5:40pm
Maggie Pie

My partner missed the actual Leaders Debate last nite, but watched the panel discussion that followed. Probably wasn’t all that interested anyway. He just sat there and Tweeted…

“If you were marooned on a desert island – who would you want as your ‘man friday?’
1. Tova O’Brien
2. Mihingarangi Forbes
3. Josie Pagani
4. Trish Sherson
5. John Campbell

(So far, he’s had more than 80 comments and likes.)
LOL!
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October 1, 2020 8:40am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  You’d have to go with Tova, wouldn’t you?
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:48am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    He’s got it closing at noon today. Funnily enuff though. the responses have been a bit surprising tbh.
    Currently running in favor of #4.
    
    5 2
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    October 1, 2020 8:54am
  - rouppe
    
    Tova was a bit girly last night… Think she’d had a couple of gins?
    
    4 1
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    October 1, 2020 3:19pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Yes, noticed that too actually rouppe. Even her legs looked quite shapely sitting there. For some reason, i’d always imagined Tova to be ‘kankel’ type of girl.
      
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      October 1, 2020 3:45pm
- kowtow
  
  Distinct lack of “diversity” among the panel participants last night. The media pardy make a huge play along those lines when it comes to the Nats and others they don’t like but fail to hold themselves to the same standard.
  
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  October 1, 2020 8:54am
- Rich Prick
  
  The idea of O’Brien being stranded on a deserted island carries much appeal.
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:00am
  - C J Southern
    
    Just so long as one of us isn’t stranded with her.
    
    #WorstNightmare
    
    18 1
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    October 1, 2020 9:33am
- Lee C
  
  I’d keep her for as long as she was able to get wood.
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:11am
- Max
  
  Josie Pagani, she like Jacinda is a great communicator. 🙂
  
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  October 1, 2020 10:11am
- JackRabbit
  
  ‘man friday?’
  
  From all your posts about your partner I would have picked him as an Al Bundy type. Now I’m thinking Julian Clary. 😉
  
  If you are looking for someone to help build a raft, then John Campbell. If you are looking for someone (female) to do cooking, cleaning, and the “other”, then why bother dressing them up as “man friday”?
  
  I mean what are they supposed to be the other 6 days of the week?
  
  Any cross dressing we need to know about? 😉
  
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  October 1, 2020 10:42am
  - JackRabbit
    
    And definitely not Tova O’Brien. Every day would start with an argument – her wanting to “protect the trees” and me want to cut them down to build a raft to get back to reality.
    
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    October 1, 2020 10:50am
TWEEDSE

From last night’s debate, “Collins was asked to describe “brand Ardern”, and said she means well and is a good communicator. Ardern said her opposite was “very assertive in a debate”.”

So Collins made two compliments of Ardern and in return Ardern made a passive aggressive snipe at Collins.

Ardern really is quite a nasty person in my opinion.

Quote source:
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/vote-2020/live-jacinda-ardern-and-judith-collins-to-face-off-in-second-debate/
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October 1, 2020 8:40am
- lifesgood
  
  “Means well” is not a compliment. It is sort of like “she does her best but is not very good at it”. We all say it about kind hearted, good natured idiots. I think that’s what Judith meant.
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:57am
  - C J Southern
    
    It’s a compliment for left leaners because in their world failure is fine – so long as you fail with good intentions and have a good excuse.
    
    It’s not a compliment for realists and right leaners like us.
    
    It’s a bit like saying “she’s as smart as she is good looking”; they THINK you’re being kind because they THINK they’re good looking 🙂
    
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    October 1, 2020 11:02am
- Swifty
  
  The right think the left wrong.
  
  The left think the right evil.
  
  Therein lies the difference.
  
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  October 1, 2020 10:13am
  - C J Southern
    
    Yes; but one position is based on reality and the other based on ignorance. Unless of course it is possible to continually borrow money without consequence in a loss-making economy to fund otherwise unsustainable lifestyles to buy votes – in which case I apologise to the left unreservedly (and await my handout).
    
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    October 1, 2020 11:06am
  - SGA
    
    The right think the left wrong.
    The left think the right evil.
    
    That’s a little simplistic – I’ve seen plenty of allusions to things such as Pol Pot, Stalin, killing fields and gulags here on Kiwiblog over the years. It’s the typical sort of U-shaped function where a closer you get to the extremes along the left-right dimension, the more people start sounding alike.
    
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    October 1, 2020 5:08pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Horseshoe theory.
      
      1 4
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      October 1, 2020 6:13pm
      - SGA
        
        Ah, so it’s got a name. Apparently people drawn to conspiracy theories show a similar left-right “horseshoe”.
        
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        October 1, 2020 7:12pm
Philview

I had watched the terrible US debate earlier and in comparison I thought both of the NZ leaders did well. The most striking thing for me is that Judith has clearly shown to the public that she is an intelligent leader and would be a safe pair of hands as leader of New Zealand.
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October 1, 2020 8:42am
- SGA
  
  I had watched the terrible US debate earlier and in comparison I thought both of the NZ leaders did well.
  
  Agreed – the contrast was stark.
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:28am
Classic Liberal

When my business survived a bit better than I expected, I repaid the wage subsidy immediately (self employed). Nobody asked me to, I still lost heaps but it just felt right to not have that money.

Now Judith wants to change the law somehow because Labour’s subsidy rules were incredibly lax (yes, they were).

Exactly how this would affect businesses hasn’t been said.

What do kiwibloggers think would be a fair *request*? What, if any, would be a fair *retrospective law change*?
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October 1, 2020 8:43am
- WaveyDavey
  
  I don’t think there’s such a thing
  
  Money offered and taken in good faith. Used and gone – so a small business would have to take out a loan to repay it?
  
  How much of the claw-back would disappear in admin/bureaucracy?
  
  What about businesses that have gone to the wall? Are the owners going to be chased and if not why would others? What’s to stop a business declaring bankruptcy to avoid repayment?
  
  What about companies who can hire/deploy lawyers to make it drag out? More costs chasing an ever-dwindling amount?
  
  Citizens can’t be held responsible for government stupidity
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:42am
- Joely Doe
  
  Nope.
  Took the subsidy for myself and staff, and business has been really good since we have been allowed back to work.
  Won’t be paying the money back (met all rules for the subsidy)
  Govt shut us down and stopped us from making money. Zero income for 2/12.
  Govt can pay.
  Interesting that the kind, caring govt didn’t think full time staff were worth more than 14.50 per hour…
  
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  October 1, 2020 10:16am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Yep. All 3 of my businesses were shuttered at L4 and one is still not operating under L2
    
    The other 2 lost 40% for the remaining wage subsidy weeks – I made sure of that
    
    All-in the govt gave me c$30k which certainly covered much of the shortfall – all perfectly legit
    
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    October 1, 2020 11:00am
  - namron
    
    Hey Joely, it wasn’t the Govt’s money you got, it was ours! They really don’t have any until they tax us or borrow it!!
    
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    October 1, 2020 2:35pm
- DeepBlue
  
  Remember about 10 years ago IRD started audits on those paying less tax because of the difference between company and top tax rate. They audited a few hundred companies and then got flooded by people making voluntary payments to avoid audits.
  
  It’s the art of risk and setting up for voluntary action that counts with tax.
  
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  October 1, 2020 10:38am
- kowtow
  
  I’m shocked at her populism , her appeal to emotion on this issue and also on the new law to ban the right to silence.
  
  What’s worse is she passes herself off as the trained lawyer/ experienced law maker .
  
  New laws to fix complex problems , won’t work but as I said a frightening appeal to emotion instead of sound conservative values , old established ones at that.
  
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  October 1, 2020 11:46am
artemisia

To me the biggest difference between the two leaders is experience. One has plenty, one has not much. The former can stand on her own. The latter is propped up by the party that needs her, and curated soundbites.

I would not be surprised if Ms Ardern doesn’t want the job really but has to remain loyal to the party of course. End of the day she will be a celebrity for her whole life so not much to lose really.
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October 1, 2020 8:54am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Yes that sums it up well. Labour need Ardern out front and centre to get the popularity votes as the team behind her is pretty dreadful.
  As I said before, if Ardern manages to form the government in October, I do not think she will stay for the full three year term.
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:53am
  - sooty
    
    250 working groups to work out what they don’t know and at how million dollars did it cos!
    
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    October 1, 2020 10:42am
fernglas

I am trying to move houses, and I have yet to find any service provider which is capable of doing things properly the first time. How much of our under-productivity is due to having to do everything twice?
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October 1, 2020 8:57am
- WaveyDavey
  
  And incompetence…
  
  I’ve been trying to get fibre installed for nearly a year
  
  Sept 19:
  Chorus turn up & can’t find the conduit
  Say we need to get neighbour consent
  No we don’t
  Say they’re going to dig a trench down the middle of our 200m tarmac drive
  No they’re not
  Say they’ll dig through the kauri forest that I live in
  No they’re not
  
  Repeat the above 3 times
  
  Get the regional infrastructure manager and customer experience director on-site and explain
  Agree to lay 200m of conduit at our expense (c$1k)
  
  Covid
  
  Last month sign up again
  Bump into Chorus tech installing neighbour’s fibre
  Tech finds conduit in 2 minutes
  Scoping team arrive Monday, find conduit and install on the spot
  2 days later Chorus tech calls from top of the drive – come to scope
  Not needed
  1 day later Chorus tech calls to arrange install
  Not needed
  
  Yesterday Chorus tech arrives at front door to install
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:54am
- Lance
  
  Expect mediocrity, poor service, incompetence and mistruths as the norm and you won’t be disappointed. There is a tiny chance of happening across a competent person, but it’s a lottery with very long odds.
  I say this with deep disappointment at the shit that passes for professionalism now. Don’t even think abut having something electronic repaired these days, the techs are beyond incompetent, mind you they probably get paid minimum wage.
  IT professionals are 99% overpaid and under perform (I have a lot of experience with suffering these fools)
  Dealing the council makes you understand how people ‘go postal’ and there seems to be an endless procession of overpaid nincompoops making decisions that effect you.
  
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  October 1, 2020 10:00am
- washo
  
  Try Taranaki Relocations. They did a superb job for us. I think they will cover all of NZ.
  
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  October 1, 2020 10:17am
Inandout

I have noticed the Rabobank and (kiora) Westpac ladies on radio have a Jacinda-like voice, a bit gushy and dripping with ‘kindness’ and ‘thanks’. There are other government funded ones that are not far from a Labour Party ad.
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October 1, 2020 9:01am
BeaB

Why was Ardern plastered in so much makeup and her hair over-coiffed?
She looked ridiculous where Judith keeps her look low-key and consistent.
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October 1, 2020 9:02am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  … [Deleted – quit the personal abuse. Last warning today. Mod.]
  
  Clark used to do the same, vast amounts of professional makeup.
  
  Can’t help thinking that Cindy is not well. She looks positively emaciated.
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:34am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Concern noted.
    
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    October 1, 2020 11:03am
Capricardo

A large amount of the credit for last night’s leaders’ debate must go to the moderator, Paddy Gower.

The questions were precise without surrounding “waffle” and he demanded answers with a minimum of long winded qualifications.

Compared with the previous week’s moderator John Campbell, Paddy was miles ahead.
And it was a pleasure to watch this time

Judith Collins came through way ahead of Ardern with precise answers largely matching the question.
She gets my vote.
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October 1, 2020 9:04am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Was she going to get your vote before the debate?
  
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  October 1, 2020 10:17am
Rusty

The PM wouldn’t give a yes or no to legalizing dope.

Was the reason because polls are showing Kiwis don’t want it legalized and the PM didn’t want to go against the majority making her look bad to potential voters?

Judith Collins looked more comfortable with all the questions last night than Ardern who was reluctant to always give a clear yes or no because answer…
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October 1, 2020 9:06am
Maggie Pie

What about this then?
Another eagle eye twitter bestie that never misses a beat 😀

https://twitter.com/JaneMorganNZ1/status/1311235624045654016
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October 1, 2020 9:07am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, for once he can’t verbally boast about his exploits. That leaves sign language.
  
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  October 1, 2020 9:24am
Lee C

Jacinda Ardern is Labour’s greatest asset and their greatest handicap.

Her brand has been so over-exposed now that many right-thinking people are actually sick of the sight and sound of her.

What won many votes for her last election was precisely what will lose them for her this time.

Exposure.

Last election, the ‘unknown’ Ardern wowed people with her clear debating skills, and unforced empathy.

This election people are seeing through the ‘Talking Head’ who has issued lots of promises but failed to deliver on them.

The pressure on her must be immense. And she doesn’t like pressure.
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October 1, 2020 9:08am
Jack5

Time for Judith Collins to drop the election A-bomb.

Remember how Don Brash shot up in the polls on a touchy issue.

Collins can do the same, but not on race – but on language.

Her A-bomb: Aotearoa.

Promise our country’s name will not change from “New Zealand” under her leadership in her first term, and after that under would change only after a referendum carried by at least 70 per cent of voters.

Imagine Collins terrifying Woke journalistas:

I promise to defend our “New Zealand” as the name of our great little country.

“New Zealand’s” been the name for more than three centuries. It’s the national brand of our exports that keep the country running.

“New Zealand’s” on the name of thousands of war graves in France, North Africa, Crete, Greece, Italy. The initials N.Z. were on their badges, and sometimes they were even called En Zedders.

One of our war heroes, Howard Kippenberger, rallied our soldiers in a desperate battle for Crete with the call:” “Stand for New Zealand! Stand every man who is a soldier! Stand for New Zealand!”

Our Olympic athletes, our All Blacks, all our teams of sportswomen and sportsmen, have been proud to be called New Zealanders.

Our orders, honours, medals bear the name New Zealand.

We have two spoken languages in New Zealand.

“Aotearoa” is the name of our country in Maori, Te Reo. In English, it’s “New Zealand”. Let them both stay in their respective languages, with the historic English name of the country “New Zealand”.

A party vote for National is a vote for “New Zealand”.
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October 1, 2020 9:13am
- Swifty
  
  Speaking of Kippenberger and Crete etc – I remember watching a doco years ago of interviews with ex-Crete Kiwis.
  
  One was talking about some of the vicious hand-to-hand fighting which went on and he remembers in one particularly nasty clash hearing a very New Zealand voice yelling “Ruck forwards, ruck!”
  
  God that brought a tear to my eye – has done again writing this.
  
  Those poor buggers who had never traveled out of the country, knew little else than a lambing beat and footy on Saturdays, next thing they knew they were face-to-face with German paratroopers in a Cretan village house and in a fight to the death – and the call to the forwards was the only thing they had to equate it to.
  
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  October 1, 2020 10:03am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    That’s very touching. Thanks, Swifty.
    
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    October 1, 2020 1:47pm
- Inandout
  
  Jack5, always keep in mind that after ‘We have two spoken languages in New Zealand’ comes a divided nation. A socialist dream.
  
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  October 1, 2020 10:25am
- ISeeRed
  
  That last line gave me goosebumps.
  
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  October 1, 2020 10:47am
- RJ
  
  Thankfully Judith has the brains to concentrate on the issues that matter and not the stupid fringe issues that mean nothing.
  
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  October 1, 2020 11:45am
  - Jack5
    
    A country’s name a “stupid fringe issue” ❓
    
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    October 1, 2020 1:58pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Yes.
      
      1 10
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      October 1, 2020 2:52pm
      - Jack5
        
        So, ?Milky, those who would change the country’s name are stupid, and the name doesn’t need to be changed?
        
        Or is just trying to be one up on John Key: he merely tried to change the national flag.
        
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        October 1, 2020 3:52pm
- namron
  
  Just thinking of the BILLIONS of references to “New Zealand” globally in so many ways, books, publications of all kinds, graphic representations etc etc in the 200 countries from the 220 years since Europeans arrived in NZ. What are the 7 billion people on Earth now going to make of Aotearoa?
  
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  October 1, 2020 2:50pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    An attractive place for a holiday?
    
    1 9
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    October 1, 2020 3:20pm
    - Tall Man
      
      With an awesome 2 week entry routine….. yeah right.
      
      2 2
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      October 1, 2020 5:12pm
Catgurl13

Then Mihi Forbes on that panel afterwards who is one freckle Maori, pipes up about Judith talking about the Kahui twins.She didn’t like how their names are used all the time in the limelight ,because they are Maori. No Mihi, it was bought up as an example of their related family who happened to be Maori,but we’re refusing to speak up protecting the murderer. Just like that Maori family are doing this week. Thats called enabling. Mihi is another grandstanding white Maori chick who looks ridiculous trying to say she is Maori.
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October 1, 2020 9:19am
- lifesgood
  
  I wonder what name she was born with.
  
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  October 1, 2020 10:58am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Joanne Forbes…..
    
    Forbes was born as Joanne Forbes in 1972/1973…When she turned 19 or 20, she attended a Māori-language immersion college and became fluent in te reo. Despite originally being known as Joanne, Forbes changed her name to Mihingarangi after her immersion experience
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihingarangi_Forbes#:~:text=Forbes%20graduated%20from%20Feilding%20High,became%20fluent%20in%20te%20reo.
    
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    October 1, 2020 1:25pm
    - lifesgood
      
      Thanks, Maggy. As expected another mostly european jumping on the “I’m Maori so I’m special” bandwagon. These people make me ill. Her parents named her Joanne, she has thrown it back in their face.
      
      3 2
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      October 1, 2020 3:56pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        It doesn’t bother me one bit…
        Some folks seem to have a need to identify with part of their heritage, other folks can’t be bothered.
        
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        October 1, 2020 5:48pm
- Flossie
  
  Isn’t she an ex wife of Duncan Garner, and the mother of three of his kids? In which case those kids are way more white than Maori and I’d suggest she is bringing them up to identify as Maori. I’ve never understood how someone who is 25% one race and mostly another can say that their 25% is owed by their 75%.
  (Finding it quite difficult to put into words what I mean)
  
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  October 1, 2020 1:32pm
Brian McDonald

Usually those that use the term “right thinking people” are talking about their opinion of themselves and the way they think. A grand way of being deluded. To top that you know about “pressure” on other people and that they don’t like it.
Give it up and have a cup of tea.
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October 1, 2020 9:20am
lastmanstanding

Apologies for going off topic but logic dictates calling someone a white supremacist is racist.

If you can change the colour of the word and its racist then…………………..guess what its racist.

So if I call someone a black supremacist and that racist then so is calling someone a white supremacist.

But of course we know the LEFT aint that good with logic.
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October 1, 2020 9:27am
- Swifty
  
  Fear not lastmanstanding, this is GD; nothing is off topic.
  
  You must remember, that with most lefties words mean what THEY want them to mean.
  
  If they say something is racist, then it is.
  
  If they something is not racist, then it isn’t.
  
  Consistency doesn’t come into it. And if you call them out on their inconsistency, then that is racist too.
  
  Just look at ol’ Don Brash; he merely called for one law for all – so that makes him a stinking racist. And if you disagree with that, then that makes you one too.
  
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  October 1, 2020 10:07am
  - marcw
    
    Then there’s Jacinda’s definition of hate speech – “You know it when you hear it.”
    
    20 2
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    October 1, 2020 10:24am
    - Swifty
      
      The Claytons answer.
      
      The answer you give when you don’t have an answer.
      
      12 2
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      October 1, 2020 10:33am
      - Jack5
        
        If Labour wins the election, the censorship regime we will get.
        
        Whatever Labour dislikes could be banned.
        
        8 2
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        October 1, 2020 2:02pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  Calling someone what they are isn’t racist. An ethic supremacist of any sort is racist but calling them that isn’t.
  
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  October 1, 2020 1:53pm
  - Classic Liberal
    
    *ethnic*.
    
    Of course calling someone an ethnic supremacist when they are not is defamatory.
    
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    October 1, 2020 3:42pm
Fisiani2

Ardern publicly backing splurging $12,000,000 on a private Green School whilst every other school is struggling was the last straw for many teachers. All it takes is a few more percentage points to shift to National and that is already happening.
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October 1, 2020 9:29am
- Yvette
  
  Ardern’s position on this is just a bit more weird than Shaw’s, because Shaw has profusely apologised now for several reasons for what he now says was mistake – against his own party’s policies, in the context of other schools, and in confessing he actually blackmailed other decision makers in threatening to not approve multiple projects unless the Greenschool got the green light, although now the school says they only ever wanted loans, not grants.
  
  Then as Shane Jones points out – and Ardern should now know – Greenschool was earlier rejected when they applied for only about a tenth of the amount they are now granted.
  Is it some neurotic hatred of being wrong, that Ardern’s still says the grant is right when Shaw admits it is wrong?
  
  And if perchance Ardern is right where is any detail, in that $11.7 million supposedly will produce 200 jobs, but how long would those jobs last and what amount is set aside for construction materials, or is this only workers and what they will actually construct in terms of building materials, come from elsewhere?
  
  This question also applies to the $10 million that Shane Jones has just given to maintenance of Pacifika church building, from Balclutha to the West Coast and elsewhere. Jobs are mentioned there too, but what about materials.
  
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  October 1, 2020 10:08am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Ardern’s still says the grant is right when Shaw admits it is wrong?
    
    It strikes me that Ms Ardern may know more about this matter than she has revealed.
    
    Hard to understand why she sees nothing wrong with pouring public money into this private, elitist school.
    
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    October 1, 2020 11:32am
    - Tall Man
      
      An option for the future maybe.
      
      1 2
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      October 1, 2020 5:05pm
Brian McDonald

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Have only seen parts of it. But it was good to see the PM and Judith draw a line against Donald Trump. It must have been a blow for the Trump fans here, which really shows their views on Trump have no place in either major party. DPF’s blog and JC views cement that.
A few days ago Biden wasn’t going to turn up to the debate according to many here, or if he did he wouldn’t be capable of drawing a single sentence together. But he did, speaking well with a voice of reason against an arrogant Trump who tried to run the debate and ask questions. He wasn’t even able to show the ability and courtesy to let others have their say, a clown indeed.
Meanwhile Seymour shoveled away a few more Nat votes. He should come right out and wear a MAGA hat.
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October 1, 2020 9:42am
- Fletch
  
  Actually, Judith praised Trump. Did you not see that? She said he was better than other presidents and praised his deal with the UAE and his dealings with Israel.
  
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  October 1, 2020 10:33am
  - Flossie
    
    She didn’t actually say he was better than other presidents, just that he hadn’t drawn the US into any wars and in that respect at least he was better than others.
    
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    October 1, 2020 11:16am
- rangitoto
  
  It’s a laugh that the left are now against world peace because Trump is actually for it and even doing something about it. If Trump said he was against poverty, Cindy would be telling us we must have more poverty. Orange man bad and all that.
  
  MAGA = Make Ardern Go Away. Vote out the CoL.
  
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  October 1, 2020 10:35am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    If Trump financed and found a cure for CANCER, the left would protest. “We want our CANCER back”
    
    3 1
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    October 1, 2020 6:19pm
- alloytoo
  
  “PM and Judith draw a line against Donald Trump.”
  
  I missed the debate could you please elaborate on what they said.
  
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  October 1, 2020 10:38am
- Inandout
  
  Brian, we mostly all want ‘Ardern to go away’
  
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  October 1, 2020 10:39am
- Critical Thinker
  
  Judith Collins profusely praised the triple Noble Peace Prize nominee, President Donald Trump on his peacemaking around the world ??
  
  “Trump has been a damn sight better than any of the other US Presidents. Including those that Jacinda Ardern admires.”
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50FHR7h3k8A&feature=youtu.be&t=5175
  
  “Trump who tried to run the debate and ask questions.”
  
  How dare he try to win the debate and ask questions from his incredibly corrupt opponent!! ?
  
  I personally found the NZ leaders debate more of a shitshow than the US one. Patrick Gower was incredibly unprofessionally opinionated, in pushing his own political positions and attacking other political party leaders (Seymour and Winston especially). And the audience in the background was also very vocal in their opinions as well.
  
  Moderators need to be seen to be as neutral as possible. And if there’s going to be an audience they need to be quiet ?
  
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  October 1, 2020 11:19am
  - SB2
    
    “Trump who tried to run the debate and ask questions.”
    
    ???
    
    Apart from shouting his opponent down and a thumbs up for his Proud Boys
    
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    October 1, 2020 1:11pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Especially on blogs…..
    
    1 2
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    October 1, 2020 5:02pm
Fletch

Mark Levin on the presidential debate –

As I reflect on last night’s debate, Biden pulled the same stunts on the president as he pulled on Paul Ryan eight years earlier, but Trump would have none of it.

Biden was making faces, rolling his eyes, interrupting the president with laughs and jabs, and was long-winded, which the moderator allowed to a ridiculous level. He was also allowed much longer opportunities uninterrupted by the moderator to speak, which Biden used to hurl one nasty lie after another. The president is a counter-puncher and often was forced to try to muscle his way in to address Biden’s list of attacks as he wasn’t given opportunities to reply.

The moderator’s liberal bias was obvious in the nature of many of the questions, as was his dislike of the president when he’d get into arguments with the president over policy while mostly letting Biden get away with whoppers.

[…]

Biden’s strategy was as a disrupter who was prepared with memorized attack lines and falsehoods, which he rattled off like a machine gun. Biden’s handlers figured such a debate — going from hiding in the basement and limiting press availability to a debate brawl — would continue to protect Biden from real scrutiny for his past record and his current embrace of truly extremist policies as set forth in his 110-page manifesto. Biden’s obvious strategy, plus the moderator’s predictable approach, was infuriating.
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October 1, 2020 10:36am
- Komata
  
  Fletch@1036
  
  This is probably as accurate summary as any…
  
  https://grrrgraphics.com/trump-vs-wallace-first-2020-presidential-debate/
  
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  October 1, 2020 1:30pm
Inandout

No more Rap music?
https://trends.gab.com/trend-feed/5f7402c09c700521449aef19
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October 1, 2020 10:38am
- Tall Man
  
  Rap + music …… oxymoron.
  
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  October 1, 2020 5:01pm
Fletch

Someone mentioned this the other day on the Trump tax thread, but it has been highlighted by Mark Levin and others over the last few days – the falsehood that Trump paid no tax, or only $750 tax over 10 years. Hidden way down at the bottom of the New York Times story, was the fact that Trump paid millions of dollars in AMT (alternative minimum tax)

“Mr. Trump was periodically required to pay a parallel income tax called the alternative minimum tax, created as a tripwire to prevent wealthy people from using huge deductions, including business losses, to entirely wipe out their tax liabilities. Mr. Trump paid alternative minimum tax in seven years between 2000 and 2017 — a total of $24.3 million, excluding refunds he received after filing. For 2015, he paid $641,931, his first payment of any federal income tax since 2010.”

The Daily Howler points it out –

[T]he AMT was created as a type of substitute for the federal income tax. If, under the tax code’s welter of rules, an individual ended up owing no income tax, he would have to pay the AMT instead.

Sad! According to the Times, in seven years when Trump “paid no income tax,” he did make AMT submissions—and those submissions totaled slightly more than $24 million.

During those seven years, Trump averaged $3.5 million per year in AMT submissions. Did we mention the fact that the AMT was designed as an alternate form of—as a substitute or replacement for—the federal income tax?

https://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2020/09/the-era-which-was-djt-paid-amt.html

As always though, the media run with an untrue story and lie to the public. Also not highlighted is the fact that his accounts show no records of bribery payments from Russia or anywhere else.
18 2
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October 1, 2020 10:49am
- Batman
  
  “excluding refunds”
  
  I’ve problem solved this for you. You’re welcome.
  
  Liars usually trip themselves up.
  
  2 20
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  October 1, 2020 10:54am
  - Fletch
    
    You obviously don’t accept tax refunds then, but like the govt to keep all your money…
    
    11 2
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    October 1, 2020 10:57am
    - Batman
      
      You can’t claim to be a high tax payer if you reduce your bill to $750.
      
      If I buy something on sale the retailer is hardly going to claim the full retail price as revenue are they?
      
      Your logic is awful but that’s to be expected when you’re defending an idiotic position.
      
      My tax refund was about $1.70, thanks to computers being far too accurate at accounting…
      
      3 16
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      October 1, 2020 11:00am
      - Fletch
        
        The $750 thing isn’t correct. That is based on the Times’ original assumption which ignores the AMT.
        Trump paid millions, as he says.
        
        13 3
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        October 1, 2020 11:09am
      - SB2
        
        “Trump paid millions, as he says”
        
        Paid millions??
        
        1 18
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        October 1, 2020 11:25am
      - KH
        
        Batman. You don’t know how this works.
        For example. In the business which I owned for some years I took my income as wages, and paid tax. And for some years I did not take wages, which increased the company profit and the company paid tax. And I took capital money out of the business tax free.
        Some could correctly say those years I paid no tax, but would be neglecting to mention that the company paid it instead.
        Overall it made no difference, in the years I personally paid no tax, the company did instead.
        Very clever those IRD people. (And I thought it was all fair and reasonable both ways of doing it)
        
        16 2
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        October 1, 2020 11:25am
I remember when

LGWM:
Wellington’s $6.4 Billion transport programme was labelled “a bit of a joke” after it was revealed the 20-year project would be reviewed by external consultants.
Porirua mayor said, “The bottom line is we need to get to the airport and the hospital.”
Regional Council chairman said “He expected the review to ‘throw up’ issues including staffing gaps and a cumbersome decision-making process.”
9 1
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October 1, 2020 10:52am
Catgurl13

Whoopdy Doo!!….Judith supports Trump…..isn’t she allowed to?….what’s the big deal and why was that even asked at the debate last night?. That had no relevance in the debate at all. Paddy was just trying to make Judith look bad.
21 5
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October 1, 2020 11:14am
- fernglas
  
  She didn’t say she supported him, she said he had done some good things. When will some people on this blog understand that you can admire some of what a politician does while despising some? Instead it seems to be binary; love them or hate them. That’s too easy and lazy.
  
  6 0
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  October 1, 2020 3:46pm
RW Capitalist

Very telling again….
Absolutely nothing…nada….tumbleweeds on “The Standard” since 6:59pm last night.
OOOHHH dear….
It’s taking an extraordinarily long time for them to spin this on toward Jacinda.
I also noticed at the sit down with Tova, a flash of Jacindas red jacket leaving the place, at considerable pace (in the background)…in fact she had already left the studio before Judith had time to sit down.
21 2
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October 1, 2020 11:16am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Still nothing
  
  3 1
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  October 1, 2020 12:44pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Must be a record….still no posting on the standard
    
    3 1
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    October 1, 2020 2:36pm
    - RW Capitalist
      
      still nothing
      
      1 1
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      October 1, 2020 4:39pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        24hrs now, and nothing posted on
        “the standard”……..that’s gotta be a record and damming testament to Judith’s thrashing in the debate.
        
        1 0
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        October 1, 2020 5:59pm
RJ

I remember back when Obama was president several American friends sending me videos of creepy Joe and calling him a pedo. Joe’s own actions have caused people to believe this.

Biden Volunteers Complain ‘Astounding Number’ of Americans Think ‘Biden Is A Pedophile’

https://newspunch.com/biden-volunteers-complain-astounding-number-of-americans-think-biden-is-a-pedophile/
9 2
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October 1, 2020 11:36am
- mikenmildagain
  
  And an ‘astounding number’ of americans believe also sorts of crazy shit, like the moon landings were fake, vaccines cause autism, 9/11 was an inside job, or Donald Trump is not a rapist…
  
  3 14
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  October 1, 2020 2:15pm
  - RJ
    
    Nice try at diversion there, but to be expected by someone who thinks the man who sexually assaults youth on the labour youth camp was a minor offence
    
    4 0
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    October 1, 2020 3:06pm
SB2

Just a reminder for a much needed sense of proportion and balance!

How yet another Conservative government is making hard yacker battling the Covid virus

“Britons told to obey rules as virus surges”

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has urged residents to obey rules imposed to tackle a rapidly accelerating second wave of the coronavirus outbreak, or risk facing a tougher lockdown.

New cases of Covid-19 are rising by more than 7000 per day in the United Kingdom, though Johnson is facing growing opposition to lockdown measures.

After a reprimand from the speaker of parliament’s House of Commons, Johnson defused a rebellion among MPs over the way such onerous rules were imposed by promising angry lawmakers more say over any new national measures.

At a briefing in Downing Street flanked by his chief medical and scientific advisers, Johnson acknowledged the opposition to his curbs on freedom…”

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/427310/britons-told-to-obey-rules-as-virus-surges
1 19
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October 1, 2020 11:38am
- Libertarians are right
  
  For doing the same thing we did?
  
  4 1
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  October 1, 2020 12:37pm
- rangitoto
  
  The fatality rate is much lower than the earlier peak. Pretty much harmless to most people now.
  
  7 2
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  October 1, 2020 1:53pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  Stuffy, I thought you were taking a looong time off?
  
  7 1
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  October 1, 2020 2:58pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Hoping…..
    
    5 1
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    October 1, 2020 4:55pm
slightlyrighty

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300121297/election-2020-labour-releases-economic-plan-with-a-140b-typo?cid=app-android

Labour will see Nationals 4 billion error and raise you a $140 billion cock-up
18 3
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October 1, 2020 12:24pm
- Bullion
  
  There’s a difference: Labour a typo on one chart, which has been amended, and National with actual discrepancies in their plan amounting to $10billion+
  
  0 15
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  October 1, 2020 12:46pm
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    ahh, silly me, I forgot. It’s different when the illiterate left . . .
    
    7 1
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    October 1, 2020 5:28pm
Catgurl13

Oopsy oh dear never mind is ok when Labour do it…
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300121297/election-2020-labour-releases-economic-plan-with-a-140b-typo
16 4
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October 1, 2020 12:26pm
- Komata
  
  Catgurl13@1226
  
  And from the NZMSM (who went ballistic and into full ridicule mode at the Nat’s recent error), absolutely nowt…
  
  Funny that; ’tis almost as if they’re being paid to say nothing (Surely not, since this is NZ, where everyone is ‘honest’ – especially the NZMSM)…
  
  11 1
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  October 1, 2020 1:24pm
- Bob
  
  140 Bil is unimportant, it is only 4bil from grants incorrect but still distributed prefu that is important for the future. Can’t tell the difference between percentages and dollars.
  
  5 3
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  October 1, 2020 2:00pm
Bob

The interesting point for me in last nights debate was when Judith referred to not wanting ‘communism in NZ, preferring to have democracy.
Adern tried to laugh the comment off, BUT she never refuted the impression that she is intent on Communizing NZ; something we know she has been indoctrinated into.
17 2
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October 1, 2020 12:35pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  She never refuted the impression (which some people might have) that she is intent on making statanism the country’s official religion, either.
  
  2 14
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  October 1, 2020 2:51pm
  - Jack5
    
    “Statanism”: you may have coined a word, Milky. Can’t find a dictionary definition for it.
    
    Useful word, though. It bundles connotations of the state and of onanism, with a faint echo of Satan.
    
    A very old Chambers dictionary I have defines onanism as “self-pollution”, while a more modern Chambers defines it two ways – as coitus interruptus, or masturbation.
    
    Let’s define your new word, statanism: “public service wanking.”
    
    5 2
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    October 1, 2020 4:08pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Statanism…. the elevation of the civil service. Already done.
    
    5 2
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    October 1, 2020 4:53pm
dave_c_

If any of you out their believe the woffle about “there are not enough women, in such and such an industry, or reaching higher levels within an organisation,think again.
The after debate commentators (all 4 of them) were women.
In my view, 3 out of 4 of them were absolutely flipping useless. Obviously ‘paid for tools’ – hardly a brain or truthful substance in their bodies whatsoever.
10 1
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October 1, 2020 12:37pm
Maggie Pie

HERE WE GO 😀
Further to my ‘man-friday’ post at 8:40am above, you’ll be wanting to know the poll results.

Just had a peek at my partners Twitter and can report as…..
1. Trish Sherson (49)
2. Mihi Forbes (46)
3. Josie Pagan (39)
4. Tova O’Brien (3)
5. John Campbell (0)

There were 204 ‘likes’ and some really hilarious comments.
(I thort post of the day went to @barbiebreath, with her ref to John Campbell … “I’d rather share a gingernut with a donkey”

LOL!!
11 4
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October 1, 2020 1:15pm
- alloytoo
  
  Now I’m not a fan of Hipkins, but that’s a bit harsh.
  
  6 0
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  October 1, 2020 2:24pm
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    V. good! ?
    
    3 1
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    October 1, 2020 5:31pm
Nookin

I see that the soon-to-be former member for Botany spat the dummy because he was not invited to the minor parties’ leadership debate and toddled off to court to complain. The decision will not have massaged his ego one little bit.

https://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/assets/cases/Ross-v-MediaWorks-Holdings-Ltd.pdf
10 0
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October 1, 2020 1:47pm
- mandk
  
  One of the most interesting aspects of the Judgment is that it reveals how little Facebook following means.
  
  It notes that Advance NZ has 43,000 Facebook followers, but less than 1% in the polls, whereas ACT has only 23,000 followers, but 6-8% in the Polls.
  
  6 1
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  October 1, 2020 3:24pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Greens coming a distant 3rd in the Maori Electorate
Ikaroa-Rāwhiti (east coast of N.I.)

https://www.teaomaori.news/whaitiri-leads-ikaroa-rawhiti-young-voters-undecided
10 1
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October 1, 2020 1:49pm
- RJ
  
  Only ever seen a green Maori once. Ok it was a green Maori ghost that all tourists that walked around the lake saw, but it was still green.
  
  4 1
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  October 1, 2020 1:52pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Ardern gave the 2 big Supermarket Monopolies free-range to rark up grocery prices during Lockdowns….

now she states that she’ll investigate whether folks are being ripped off.

Once again, she’s unable to see the consequences of her panicked actions.
Act leader David Seymour criticised the market studies as showing Labour was a “fair-weather friend to small business”.

“It claims to want competition, but it created a monopoly during lockdown.

“During the lockdown, the Government gave the supermarkets a monopoly by shutting down butchers, bakers and greengrocers. It wasn’t concerned with competition at all.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/vote-2020/labour-takes-aim-at-supermarkets-over-grocery-prices/
19 1
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October 1, 2020 1:56pm
- RJ
  
  Surely we can’t be getting ripped off because when the labour government allowed the sale of Woolworths they said it would have no effect on the price of what we pay. Hmmmm, did labour get it wrong again then.
  
  8 1
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  October 1, 2020 2:01pm
  - Jack5
    
    I think it was the Commerce Commission that allowed the sale of the Woolworths chain to Countdown.
    
    3 2
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    October 1, 2020 4:10pm
Maggie Pie

Trending on Twitter…

Should we halt all incoming flights from India?

(to date….99.4% “yes”)
17 1
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October 1, 2020 1:57pm
- Tall Man
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/10/coronavirus-12-new-cases-of-covid-19-in-new-zealand.html
  
  Kiwis coming home…. yeah right
  
  14 2
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  October 1, 2020 2:12pm
  - RJ
    
    Was told about this last week, 2 plane loads of Indians arriving at Christchurch airport, all with visas, none of them spoke any english
    
    14 2
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    October 1, 2020 3:02pm
    - kowtow
      
      ‘all with visas, none of them spoke any english’
      
      Then they must be fluent in East Polynesian , otherwise how the hell are they gonna get by here ?
      
      8 2
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      October 1, 2020 5:15pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Hang about, we’ll get a ‘working group’ to do a study to see how many Govt paid interpreters will be needed
        
        5 2
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        October 1, 2020 6:12pm
- Fletch
  
  To be honest, I don’t see why we still have people coming in. As i have said before, if you have a flood in the kitchen you turn the faucet off while you clean it up and fix the leak. You don’t leave it running.
  
  16 2
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  October 1, 2020 2:29pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Must be dedicated Labour voters
    
    4 2
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    October 1, 2020 6:09pm
gump

Judith Collins rules out coalition with Advance NZ party because “I’m not insane”.
17 0
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October 1, 2020 2:06pm
- greybeard
  
  Oh Judith: I am in love !
  
  6 0
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  October 1, 2020 5:34pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  Response of the 2020 Election campaign by any candidate – absolute gold.
  
  4 1
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  October 1, 2020 7:18pm
mandk

What a great story!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300121323/russian-cleaner-accidentally-wins-local-election-she-only-entered-to-get-her-boss-reappointed

Perhaps we should tell Peters, Jones and Ross it might be a good idea for them to move to Russia in order to improve their election changes.
10 0
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October 1, 2020 2:18pm
rangitoto

Neanderthal genes implicated in severe covid-19 illness.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200930094758.htm
4 1
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October 1, 2020 2:34pm
- Swifty
  
  Diabetes too I’ve read.
  
  And ginger hair.
  
  2 0
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  October 1, 2020 3:18pm
  - mandk
    
    KB readers’ poll:
    
    Would you rather have:
    a) COVID-19
    b) Diabetes
    c) Ginger hair?
    
    Disclosure statement – My hair was ginger, when I had any.
    
    3 1
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    October 1, 2020 3:27pm
    - Dougal10
      
      Covid . Probably won’t even know you have had it.
      
      1 0
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      October 1, 2020 10:15pm
I remember when

As close to a walkover as it is possible to get?
Simon Wilson calls it a tie!!
11 1
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October 1, 2020 2:44pm
Fletch

Biden calling troops “stupid bastards” on video back in 2016.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prNum4GREWY

“Clap for that, you stupid bastards. Man, you are a dull bunch. Must be slow here, man”.
5 2
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October 1, 2020 4:03pm
Gravelroad

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122950418/election-2020-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-draws-crowds-during-nelson-visit

So these numpty reporters who traipse round after Ms Ardern go to Nelson thinking it’s a hippie town full of arty types, vegans wearing tie-dye and dope smokers. They interview a few who fit the picture and quote them saying isn’t Jacinda lovely and she’s so “relatable “ and so on.
Do they even realise that Nelson is a National held seat? And has been for a long time.
It has had one or two Labour MP’s in the past – notably Stan Whitehead who became infamous for getting rid of the railway line between city and surrounding countryside.
He was known as “Ban Stan the railway man”.
Labour not so keen on costly, inefficient railways
back then……..
10 1
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October 1, 2020 4:19pm
RJ

Jacinda the liar Arden at it again

Jacinda Ardern said Pharmac got ‘no’ funding under National. That’s not true.

The high emotions involved around medicines spending make Pharmac – the government’s drug-buying agency – a thorny topic for politicians.

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2020/08/election-2020-the-whole-truth/#/1193581996/labour-s-misleading-claim-on-medicine-funding
10 1
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October 1, 2020 4:44pm
Swifty

I’ve just listened to Judith being interviewed on Nat Rad and something has occurred to me.

Judith talks so conversationally, chattily and with a very moderate volume. As if she’s talking directly with you.

It’s so refreshing compared to Ardern, who speaks so forcefully, adamantly and as if she is giving a lecture. I think it’s covering up for feelings of deep inadequacy or inferiority myself.

🙂
15 1
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October 1, 2020 5:39pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Giving a lecture to primary school kids
  
  10 2
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  October 1, 2020 6:07pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/122938616/wireless-ford-30-gets-life-for-particularly-brutal-murder-of-fatherinlaw
“Wireless Ford”: actually I don’t blame the guy for topping someone after being saddled with a name like that from birth.
The only name which could have been worse was “Hotwired Holden”.
4 2
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October 1, 2020 5:40pm
70andstilllearning

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/grant-robertson-explains-140-billion-typo-in-labour-partys-fiscal-plan

So Robbo gives Paul G shit for days on end re missing numbers detail in a massive spreadsheet but can’t pick up an obvious error in a visual. I know he failed maths but mabye he should have gone to Spec Savers instead?

Just asking!
10 2
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October 1, 2020 6:52pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Uh O 20:16 and I see obligatory dt. Fraser House must have moved to 24/7 cover, Hope the poor twits doing the mahi are getting enough shift/OT/ whatever allowances to get them up to the minimum.
  
  6 0
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  October 1, 2020 8:21pm
Kiwi_in_Paris

Get your pants down Kiwis!

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/australian-state-law-empowers-officials-to-forcibly-remove-underwear-to-administer-vaccine
1 0
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October 1, 2020 9:35pm
- marcw
  
  The queue for volunteer vaccinators at YWCA hostels in Victoria starts in … Adelaide.
  
  3 0
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  October 1, 2020 9:51pm

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