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December 16, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 16 December 2020

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General Debate

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krazykiwi

I just watched a brand, spanking new $150,000 Audi EV Crown car drive past a retail business with a large CLOSED sign in the window. A metaphor for where NZ is heading.
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December 16, 2020 8:05am
- GazzaW
  
  It was probably David Clark’s missus heading off to do her Christmas shopping.
  
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  December 16, 2020 8:16am
  - Paulus
    
    [Sorry – we don’t bring MP’s family/activities into discussions unless they bring themselves. Mod.]
    
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    December 16, 2020 1:59pm
- Raphael
  
  Relax comrade. It is right that Politburo members experience some luxury as they strive tirelessly for us all. As for the rest of us comrade, it is the desire of the Socialist state that we are all equally poor and dependant on our Glorious Leader.
  
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  December 16, 2020 8:29am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I know you were kind of kidding but seriously that is how it is starting to look. If they want to virtue signal they can buy a Kia plug in hybrid for one third of the cost of that Audi.
    
    The AVERAGE age of cars on New Zealand roads is 14 years. That means the average value of cars on the road is less than 5,000 dollars. So yeah the Ministers having super luxury EVs so they can feel good is no different to the politburo.
    
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    December 16, 2020 9:06am
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      Heh, apparently the only material thing Chloe owns is her couch…
      
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      December 16, 2020 9:54am
      - rouppe
        
        Individual gang members don’t own those $50,000 Harleys either
        
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        December 16, 2020 10:09am
      - The Housekeeper
        
        Yes, what a privilege for the cows who gave their lives so Chloe could put her bum on them.
        
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        December 16, 2020 10:43am
      - kowtow
        
        …..other than her ego.
        
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        December 16, 2020 10:44am
      - softail 1450
        
        Suze ,that’ll be one horrendously confused Couch as her Children will he if she ever hatches any.
        
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        December 16, 2020 11:47am
      - JackRabbit
        
        It’s probably all she needs. She wouldn’t need a car if her only trip is up the Hindu Kush.
        
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        December 16, 2020 5:31pm
    - lastmanstanding
      
      The cheapest EV is an MG made in China. Its just under $50K so a third of the price of an Audi EV. That would sit well with the Ardern Government given they are a puppet regime of Beijing.
      If the Government was really serious about giving tax payers value for money they would have bought a fleet of MGs. They could have done a bulk discount deal at $40K.
      Just another example of Pollie “stick it to the taxpayers”. As far as they are concerned we are just an ATM for them.
      
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      December 16, 2020 10:40am
      - Couchpotatoe
        
        … Ardern Government given they are a puppet regime of Beijing…
        
        You are confused.
        
        John and Judith are the kowtow twins.
        
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        December 16, 2020 8:16pm
    - Bob
      
      But but but …socialists are entitled to such luxury, at someone else’s expense. Why pay for it yourself when you can con some other mug to pay for it.
      
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      December 16, 2020 11:17am
      - Caine9
        
        As the pigs advised, all people are equal, some are just more equal than others….
        
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        December 16, 2020 1:10pm
- cmm
  
  The amount of debt we’re running up could put one in every driveway.
  
  Cuzzies might not have a house but they can sleep in the EV.
  
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  December 16, 2020 9:07am
- Frank the tank
  
  All animals are equal but some are more equal than others
  
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  December 16, 2020 9:34am
  - Caine9
    
    You just beat me to it!
    
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    December 16, 2020 1:10pm
- Batman
  
  There would have to be a procurement process for changing to an Audi EV. The Crown/Govt can’t just go out and splash that much money on a random luxury Audi for someone, as much as people here might want to enjoy bashing them over this tale.
  
  So, I am going to guess this story might be another ‘woke cafe’ yarn or it’s a case of mistaken identity.
  
  The third option is that Governor General has a new ride.
  
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  December 16, 2020 10:18am
  - mark15
    
    Where was the procurement for
    Trevor Mallard’s defamation payout?
    
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    December 16, 2020 11:03am
    - softail 1450
      
      Mark15 ,How dare you whack batman around his chops with a fact ,disgraceful bullying behavior by you..
      
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      December 16, 2020 11:50am
      - Batman
        
        It’s okay softail, I’m quite alright about it.
        
        See, Mark is bringing up something entirely unrelated, from a separate part of government. Of course we know what his point is but he is technically wrong.
        
        The Mallard legal cost comes from Parliamentary Services, which is of course an independent arm of Parliament.
        
        Meanwhile, Crown VIP vehicles are managed and procured through Internal Affairs and its Ministerial Services group, which is subject to All of Government procurement rules which prevent such one-off and potentially illegal purchases of luxury vehicles for an ill-defined purpose.
        
        Sorry to be a boring nerd but that’s the situation.
        
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        December 16, 2020 12:03pm
      - alwyn
        
        I hate to be equally boring but a few facts might change your mind.
        The Government has already bought 3 of these machines. They are in the Ministerial fleet with 2 in Wellington and 1 in Auckland. The Auckland one comes with a child seat so I’ll give you one guess as to who uses it.
        These cars cost, according to the AA new car price list about $150,000 each.
        They have also bought 3 BMW X5 plug in hybrids which cost just as much
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/government-bolsters-its-green-ministerial-vehicle-fleet-with-fully-battery-electric-audis/7P75JJJJC7NNWE3TALK2YQJKCM/
        
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        December 16, 2020 2:59pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Batman
        
        >”…which is of course an independent arm of Parliament…
        
        But the hand is still firmly in the trouser pocket of Govt funds.
        
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        December 16, 2020 5:33pm
      - Batman
        
        Of course but in this context they’re not the same thing.
        
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        December 16, 2020 5:36pm
BeeJay

Even the Kentucky turkey has acknowledged the Biden/Harris win!
But wait! There’s more!
New story coming soon – The Moron goes to Congress!
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December 16, 2020 8:07am
- softail 1450
  
  [Mod: deleted for OTT sexist references]
  
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  December 16, 2020 11:55am
I remember when

I can remember when ‘Pandora’ was Adrian Mole’s girl friend.
Now, it is suddenly a dastardly employer reminding staff to only miss work if they are really sick.
Or should that read, only miss work if they really are sick!
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December 16, 2020 8:11am
- artemisia
  
  Almost all employers know some staff call in sick the odd Monday or Friday. Just because.
  
  They might think the employer is unaware. Wrong answer. Any manager involved in downsizing discussions is well aware of the factors taken into account.
  
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  December 16, 2020 9:49am
  - Harriet
    
    Don’t be so sure as they will probably keep the cheapest staff on in times of strife.
    My experiences with employers in NZ was one of total inconsistency —- they bagged out those who didn’t do the work behind their backs but then kept paying them 80-100% of the pay of those who did do the work.
    Why? — It was just a numbers game – if the good staff left because they felt underpaid or poorly treated the employer then at least had ‘workers’ until he hired another person.
    I left NZ as there is no dignity working amongst that sort of bullshit – and for the same wage as those who do fuck all.
    
    And that is the main reason a business will have high staff turnover — productive and willing staff being handicapped by their employers ignorance and/or dishonesty.
    
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    December 16, 2020 2:33pm
Maggy Wassilieff

The Conditional tense of the headline should be rewritten into the Future Simple.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300184620/this-could-be-the-worst-parliament-since-mmp-unless-urgent-changes-are-made

No Could be … it Will Be…
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December 16, 2020 8:19am
- krazykiwi
  
  NZers were given the opportunity to make urgent changes 8 weeks ago. We decided that lies, underperformance and Orwellian messaging were just the ticket. My grandchildren will be tasked with picking up the pieces because adults in 2020 lost their ability to think critically.
  
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  December 16, 2020 8:25am
  - Gravelroad
    
    But, but,but Jacinda is soooooo lovely and kind
    And she saved us from covid
    And she tries so hard
    And she has a lovely boyfriend and baby
    And she is giving out more and more subsidies and benefits
    What more can you ask for Krazykiwi?
    Be reasonable man.
    
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    December 16, 2020 8:53am
    - gravedodger
      
      Tell that to the poor bastard Mallard destroyed? Gravel.
      
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      December 16, 2020 10:33am
      - fredonas
        
        He was “destroyed” (rightly or wrongly) by his accusers and the internal report into his alleged conduct. The speaker didn’t name him and put a hyperbolic “woke” interpretation on his alleged transgressions but I would have thought that the stress was caused more by the internal disciplinary process than the speaker’s misguided comments. Anyone following the media coverage would, in my opinion, see the speaker’s comments as inaccurate and 0ver the top.
        
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        December 16, 2020 5:47pm
  - sooty
    
    No could,
    No maybe,
    It is the worst government in NZs history!!!
    
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    December 16, 2020 8:54am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Yep buckle in – the Blairite and St Ash are still administering the WuFlu Koolaid as we speak. Little Aotearoa is drinking it in the bucketloads.
    
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    December 16, 2020 9:35am
  - Couchpotatoe
    
    Yep the opposition is really really useless.
    
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    December 16, 2020 8:18pm
- Ruahine
  
  No Could be … it Will Be…It already is.
  
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  December 16, 2020 8:27am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “Labour’s thumping majority means that it gets to ask more questions about itself than National does.”
  
  I didn’t know that rule. Seems stupid. The whole purpose of question time should be about opposition questions for government.
  
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  December 16, 2020 9:12am
krazykiwi

The lies we’re told as truth: The Covid-19 Data is a ‘Travesty’. How the UK and US Covid Death Data is Inflated
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December 16, 2020 8:20am
- SGA
  
  The “off-guardian” – not a news site I am familiar with.
  
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  December 16, 2020 8:35am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Apparently it started as a blog fisking Guardian articles that made shit up about environmental issues. They give a bit too much space to some weirdo topics (eg twin towers conspiracy theory), but I’ve found their Covid-19 material objective and well referenced.
    
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    December 16, 2020 12:37pm
    - SGA
      
      To be honest, krazykiwi, ever since you said that you’d been using CDC data to base your analysis of events that had happened in the last couple of weeks or so, I’ve stopped bothering with your covid stuff.
      
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      December 16, 2020 1:44pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        I’ve mainly used CDC(US), EuroMOMO(EU), ONS(UK) sources. Each source has issues around data timeliness and quality, but at least these sources are updated frequently .. unlike anything here in NZ. I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with my analysis. My only hope is that they/you start questioning the mainstream narrative.
        
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        December 16, 2020 2:39pm
- cmm
  
  DPF’s recent posting on the 300k deaths in USA was interesting for the weird stats.
  
  300k deaths in the USA are attributed to CV19 and it was asserted that this could not be down to substitution due to there being a total of 380k excess in the same period.
  
  That leaves an interesting question: where does the 80k of other excess deaths come from?
  
  Now we know that many CV19 deaths (let’s say 20% – though the number is far more likely to be much higher) are a result of substitution (eg1. an old 90 year old who was on their last legs and was going to die anyway now dies of CV19 instead; eg2: a supremely obese person on track to die of a heart attack dies of CV19 instead).
  
  If we account for those then the there are approx 240k or so excess deaths caused by CV19 and that makes another 140k excess deaths were recorded for other reasons.
  
  What the hell’s causing the other 140k other excess deaths?
  
  The definition of excess mortality is “the number of deaths actually recorded in excess of the number expected on the basis of past seasonal experience” (lifted from a definition in a medical paper.
  
  ie. normal level “seasonal flu” deaths are not excess because they are consistent with past seasonal experience.
  
  We’re hearing that seasonal flu deaths are down significantly, so again, that either up to substitution (people who would have died of flu died of CV19 instead) or down to better hygiene (masks and hand washing performed for CV19 reduce flu as well). So that pushes up the excess-deaths-not-due to CV19 even more.
  
  That 140k becomes 170k or so. What’s caused 170k extra non-CV19 deaths in the USA during the CV19 period?
  
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  December 16, 2020 8:42am
  - Pharmachick
    
    People not going to hospital because they’re afraid to catch COVID and dying without acute care.
    
    Delayed surgeries for moderate-severe conditions.
    
    Delayed cancer screening/treatment.
    
    Suicide.
    
    …
    
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    December 16, 2020 8:52am
    - cmm
      
      In many places they’d be right to do that.
      
      I was chatting with some colleagues in Russia and one of them got CV19 from hospital after some rudimentary procedure.
      
      Go in for a cut finger, go home with a bandage… and CV19!
      
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      December 16, 2020 9:10am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Going into hospital for one thing and dying from an infection you catch while in hospital has been going on for decades, in NZ and overseas. Dozens per year, if not hundreds.
        
        Same as MIQ. Managed Incubation Quarters.
        
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        December 16, 2020 5:38pm
    - Happy1
      
      Pharachick, here in covid free NZ we have a death deficit of 700 YTD compared to expected number. We had similar lockdowns etc to the U K but we didn’t have the increased deaths from delayed medical attention suicides etc so they probably didn’t either. The reasonable assumption is that the 71,000 excess deaths in England and Wales are covid.
      
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      December 16, 2020 9:11am
      - Pharmachick
        
        Some of them will be COVID-19. Some will be the others I listed (and more not listed). I can’t find the link, but a respected oncologist in NZ was projecting an additional ~400 cancer deaths in NZ due to delayed detection/treatment a couple of months ago.
        
        It’s just sad. Also, a knock-on effect of the global pandemic on the healthcare system and society.
        
        Can 2020 be over now?
        
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        December 16, 2020 10:00am
      - MCos
        
        The UK most certainly didn’t have similar lockdowns to us.
        Their borders have never been been locked down like ours are for a start.
        
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        December 16, 2020 10:00am
      - Phronesis
        
        If there are no increased deaths from shutting down the health system for two months then I think we should do it every year. Just imagine the cost savings, and absolutely no downside! I would prefer if it were July and August next year though.
        
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        December 16, 2020 10:10am
      - Overworked
        
        Sorry Pharmachick, downvoted by mistake
        
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        December 16, 2020 11:21am
    - Overworked
      
      I’m not so sure about the effect of delayed treatment. Here in NZ there is normally a fairly extended wait to be seen for even severe or lifethreatening conditions. Certainly COVID-19 added several weeks to that, but the hospitals put on a burst of speed afterwards that I would have thought they wouldn’t be capable of.
      
      There is a case to be made though that the DHB/Health Dept response was poorly thought through. They should have allocated separate hospitals for continued normal care and COVID care, with dedicated staff working at each – no moonlighting of staff at other institutions. Moonlighting has been a significant problem here with nurses working in both hospitals and managed isolation or rest homes, notably in the Rosewood home in Auckland.
      
      The planning for containment while continuing to provide essential function was abysmal.
      
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      December 16, 2020 11:26am
  - mark15
    
    Donald Trump.
    
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    December 16, 2020 9:23am
- Happy1
  
  KK, between weeks 13 and 49 excess deaths in England and Wales were 71,000. Ons figures.
  
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  December 16, 2020 8:57am
- SB2
  
  From the same website,
  
  The Truth about the Illuminati.
  
  https://insighthistory.com/latest-content/f/illuminati-101-was-the-illuminati-a-real-secret-society?blogcategory=European+History
  
  krazykiwi , feedback please?
  
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  December 16, 2020 9:08am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Feedback.. why?
    
    You routinely quote Wikipedia as an apparently authoritative source for controversial topics.
    
    There’s rubbish content in most online publications (insl MSM). One just has to use ones brain to sift the material. So I can see how you might struggle.
    
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    December 16, 2020 12:31pm
    - SB2
      
      “You routinely quote Wikipedia…”
      
      ???
      My favopurites are AP , Reuters , Guardian, The Independent etc
      
      Yours ?
      
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      December 16, 2020 12:39pm
      - IC5000
        
        Cant go past Brietbart, Infowars and Stormfront forums for real news
        
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        December 16, 2020 3:19pm
- fredonas
  
  Agreed. It’s being blatantly used as a political tool to damage enemies of the leftists e.g. small business owners and further the globalist agenda (“build back better”) and the aims of the chinese government.
  John C. Dvorak posted a summary of the Johns Hopkins newsletter and subsequent suppression cover-up.
  “One of the strangest events of the (soon-to-end) Covid crisis took place last month when a more than qualified researcher, Genevieve Briand, came out with a presentation titled, “COVID-19 Deaths: A Look at U.S. Data” which was reviewed for the November 22 Johns Hopkins News-Letter. Using government data, she made the claim that there was no evidence that the “Covid deaths” in fact added to the expected annual total death toll in the US.”
  https://dvorak.substack.com/p/covid-deaths-by-the-numbers
  
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  December 16, 2020 11:19am
- Jimmy White
  
  Deaths due to Voting. It seems that a large number of Dead people who recovered and voted in the US election have died again. Reports from ‘Woke University’ say it could be up to 100%.
  
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  December 16, 2020 11:54am
  - Harriet
    
    I read yesterday that there are hundreds of people who voted in the US election that were actually born between 1900 – and 1800!!!
    
    Yep – people well over 100 years old — and most of the youngest of them being 120!!!!!
    
    That’s not evidence of cheating that’s just age discrimination. 😎
    
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    December 16, 2020 3:08pm
    - C J Southern
      
      1800 is probably a good reflection of the number of times that’s been explained.
      
      And that’s just in the past hour.
      
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      December 16, 2020 4:55pm
Simon

Riccardo March a horrible little turd. Note this is not disputed by twitter so it must be true.
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December 16, 2020 8:23am
- Harriet
  
  The gay community haven’t disputed it either.
  
  Or Mexicans in general.
  
  It is defiantly true. 😎
  
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  December 16, 2020 3:12pm
  - RichardX
    
    “It is defiantly true.”
    
    Who or what is the truth defying?
    
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    December 16, 2020 4:17pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING….

So, Biden’s inaugural committee is urging the public not to travel for the Inauguration, but rather to just participate at home.

https://twitter.com/TheInsiderPaper/status/1338898891933163521

LOL!! As if anybody would have gone anyway.
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December 16, 2020 8:28am
- Juliet2554
  
  What to Trump’s inauguration?
  
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  December 16, 2020 8:33am
  - Batman
    
    Juliet you must be thinking of Trump’s trials in State Court.
    
    I’m sure they’ll be live streamed though.
    
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    December 16, 2020 10:27am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  Of course, besides the video footage, voice recordings, data analysis, statistical impossibilities, sworn affidavits and eyewitness testimony there is absolutely no evidence of voter fraud in the US as many here admonish us.
  
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  December 16, 2020 8:57am
  - C J Southern
    
    Hmmm. One has to wonder why – if there is so much credible evidence of widespread fraud – why their lawyers didn’t make fraud accusations in court and/or present any of this evidence?
    
    I guess the only possible reasons for those facts must be that either “they forgot to mention it” or “they’re all grossly incompetent”. Which do you think it is?
    
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    December 16, 2020 9:48am
    - Batman
      
      “statistical impossibilities!!” They cry, ignoring or completely unaware of the heroically stupid and illogical assumptions used to arrive at those impossibilities.
      
      They are certainly well named…
      
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      December 16, 2020 10:30am
      - Pharmachick
        
        “heroically stupid and illogical”… Brilliant. I may find myself borrowing that term in the near future Batman [with full attribution natch].
        
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        December 16, 2020 12:10pm
      - C J Southern
        
        Had to laugh at what mad hatter Amanda Chase said:
        
        “The American people aren’t fools” …
        
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        December 16, 2020 4:57pm
- SB2
  
  Few turned up at Donald’s too. so could be a trend.
  
  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/01/24/fact-check-inauguration-crowd-size/96984496/
  
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  December 16, 2020 9:09am
  - Juliet2554
    
    the photos the media love to show us are before the event. Judging from the 50,000 people at trump rallies, I think you’ve been lied to
    
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    December 16, 2020 11:35am
    - Batman
      
      50,000 at a trump rally vs the million+ that showed up for Obama… Twice ?
      
      Well to be fair, just about every other President who isn’t historically unpopular gets basically a million at their inauguration, pandemics aside
      
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      December 16, 2020 11:52am
      - softail 1450
        
        Batman and Stupidboy have mistakenly double dosed their Hatred for Trump medication this morning ,Batty can I suggest blister packs and try finding a more beautiful partner, maybe you are just green with envy because Trumps a billionaire with a young Mrs whilst you are still trailer park bound and your only happiness in life is a visit from Sb2 once a day to coordinate your dastardly attacks on the POTUS. LMFAO.
        
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        December 16, 2020 12:19pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        ‘dastardly’
        what about Muttley?
        
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        December 16, 2020 1:37pm
      - Batman
        
        Methinks softail is projecting his life onto others. He knows zilch about me, my airpoints stays, or my partners ?
        
        Melania isn’t even good looking so Trump is welcome to her.
        
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        December 16, 2020 1:43pm
- cmm
  
  Will Biden go or will he Skype in from his basement?
  
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  December 16, 2020 9:11am
  - MCos
    
    I would say most Americans probably couldn’t give a rat’s arse as long as they’ve seen the back of Trump and his ever more wretched administration.
    
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    December 16, 2020 10:07am
    - Fletch
      
      Americans are going to have buyer’s remorse over Biden. They got tax cuts under Trump. Record unemployment. A great economy. Amazing stock market. Trump’s America was great.
      
      What will Biden bring? Higher taxes. The destruction of the oil industry with thousands of jobs cut. More climate nonsense. Reinstatement of the awful Iran deal, and most probably the end of all the gains Trump has made in the Middle East. The sucking up to China.
      
      What a car wreck.
      
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      December 16, 2020 11:03am
      - MCos
        
        America did have record unemployment, but the official rate now sits at 6.7%. The official NZ rate was 5.3% for the Sept quarter.
        The DOW is at record levels. So is ours, but I don’t see anyone here squawking about that.
        COVID-19 is out of control in the US.
        The ME is a minor side show
        
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        December 16, 2020 11:24am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Not that there have been any actual ‘gains in the Middle East’, either.
        
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        December 16, 2020 11:37am
      - Paulus
        
        Like the gullible New Zealand voters who will live to regret their vote recently, and wonder why the did it – already happening .
        
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        December 16, 2020 2:06pm
      - IC5000
        
        > Americans are going to have buyer’s remorse over Biden
        
        I had buyers remorse as an ex trump supporter about three months after he started his term. Nothing could have prepared me for such degeneracy, incompetence and greed. Trump has established such a low bar for Biden it will be almost impossible to achieve.
        
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        December 16, 2020 3:41pm
      - C J Southern
        
        But why would they have “buyers remorse” if Trump is still going to be president as you keep assuring us?
        
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        December 16, 2020 4:59pm
  - Batman
    
    CMM, that depends whether they have completed the fumigation of the White House by that point.
    
    The place is basically a Covid vector at this point, thanks to the reckless attitudes of the current occupants and political staff.
    
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    December 16, 2020 10:31am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Which Biden ? 1.0 or 2.0?
    
    7 3
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    December 16, 2020 11:20am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    He’s looking like a candidate for a treason trial.
    Fascinating situation.
    
    3 5
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    December 16, 2020 2:46pm
    - C J Southern
      
      Nah – Republicans will use the same useless lawyers that don’t know how to repeat alleagations or present evidence in court – so he’ll be completely safe.
      
      2 7
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      December 16, 2020 5:01pm
- Jimmy White
  
  Unlike the last Democratic Inauguration they wont want to be caught in the ‘Purple tunnel of Doom’
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Tunnel_of_Doom
  
  6 2
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  December 16, 2020 11:59am
- fredonas
  
  Stay in your basement, people. LOLs 🙂
  
  2 0
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  December 16, 2020 10:07pm
Simon

Gray Man Bad.

Good luck to Prez Biden. Think he is going to need it.

At the end Trump had four years to sort out the voting. He though was let down badly by the GOPe but Trump was an outsider the GOPe were happy or indifferent for various swing State executives to change the voting rules to drag Slow Joe over the finish line. Fraud, unlawful votes or otherwise.

SCOTUS fucked up by not hearing the Texas case. Decide it one way or the other for closure reasons. But in the end SCOTUS just another corrupt or useless Government institution. This was a bad and out of touch mistake.

The GOP will ride the election was stolen all the way to the mid-terms in 2022 on the back of a terrible economy & fairly useless Biden Admin. The next 2 years will not be good.

The Jeb Bush / Nikki Haley GOP though is finished.
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December 16, 2020 8:33am
- C J Southern
  
  Hmmm. SCOTUS rules that Texas has no business sticking their noses into how other states run their elections (ie “follows the law”) – and that makes them “corrupt” and “useless”.
  
  Reality check: The reality is that you have no integrity and are incapable of differentiating between the outcome you wanted (ie a Trump win) and the outcome that actually happened (ie a Biden win).
  
  Trump lost fair and square. You both need to grow up and get over it.
  
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  December 16, 2020 9:55am
  - Fletch
    
    Come on.. Nobody believes Biden won fair and square. Not even most Americans, with 47% of voters most likely saying Joe won by fraud.
    
    Forty-seven percent (47%) say it’s likely that Democrats stole voters or destroyed pro-Trump ballots in several states to ensure that Joe Biden would win
    
    https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2020/most_say_mail_in_voting_worked_but_47_say_fraud_likely
    
    You can say that you don’t like Trump and are glad he is gone, but don’t try and kid anyone that the election was fair when it obviously wasn’t.
    
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    December 16, 2020 11:06am
    - SB2
      
      Fletch, the headline,
      
      Most Say Mail-In Voting Worked, But 47% Say Fraud Likely
      
      Fraud likely? Factual evidence other than Trump’s legal team conspicuous failure to do so.
      
      5 12
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      December 16, 2020 12:45pm
    - C J Southern
      
      Many DO believe Biden won fair and square – including me. But – yet again – it doesn’t matter what you, I, or anyone else “thinks”; thoughts are subject to manipulation.
      
      What we CAN give FAR more weight to is the FACT that virtually no accusations of fraud were made in court and virtually no evidence was presented. And what little evidence that WAS presented was rejected out of hand by impartial judges. Let’s be honest – there’s only one reason for that.
      
      So right back at you – how about YOU “come on”; seriously dude when the best “evidence” you have is accusation from sore losers that can’t be backed up with ANY evidence that around 60 courts at different levels and in different states have unanimously rejected (some using unprecidented language) it’s really well past the point where you should seriously question the reliability of your news sources.
      
      The truth is determined by EVIDENCE – not by polls.
      
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      December 16, 2020 5:09pm
      - Couchpotatoe
        
        Losers are always gonna lose.
        
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        December 16, 2020 8:21pm
- MCos
  
  “SCOTUS just another corrupt or useless Government institution.”
  
  That worthless opinion from some clueless moron was as predictable as night follows day.
  
  9 12
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  December 16, 2020 10:15am
- Frank the tank
  
  Jeb Bush is politically dead whereas Haley isn’t and is well in the race for 2024. The GOP has evolved which it needed to do to remain relevant given demographic changes in key states like Texas, Georgia and Florida. Haley, like Cruz and Rubio have evolved in line with the GOP.
  
  The trick is retaining Trump’s base and also reconnecting with suburban voters. The gains in the house show the GOP ‘gets it’ unlike National here.
  
  As much as Trump was entertainment unless there is a MASSIVE economic meltdown he will be more of a hindrance than a help at the top of the ticket in 4 years time. I will however be eternally great full for him that we never saw Hillary as president of the US.
  
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  December 16, 2020 11:21am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Nah, it’s going to be TRUMP/TRUMP 2024! The dotard and one of his idiot spawn.
    
    5 18
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    December 16, 2020 11:36am
    - flash2846
      
      Jealous as usual mikenwankagain. When you have actually achieved something useful then you can call actual idiots “idiots” Until then show some respect to your betters. You idiot!
      
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      December 16, 2020 12:58pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Oh, and what has the Trump family ever achieved apart from squandering Fred Trump’s fortune?
        
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        December 16, 2020 1:36pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Going travelling these hols?

Pack a tent.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/no-vacancy-at-the-inn-this-christmas
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December 16, 2020 8:33am
- cmm
  
  Unfortunately there’s a shortage of tents too….
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2020/12/camping-stores-warn-they-could-run-out-of-stock-as-new-zealanders-head-outdoors.html
  
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  December 16, 2020 8:45am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Heard them saying on ZB yesterday “…. more than 500,000 people are expected to take a camping holiday this Christmas!”
  
  As my partner said, “Hope it pisses down” LOL!!
  
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  December 16, 2020 8:52am
  - GazzaW
    
    And why would he say that Maggie? Regardless of the travel restrictions a camping holiday is all that many families can afford every year and they save hard to have that family time.
    
    36 4
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    December 16, 2020 9:13am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Appreciate that Gazz. It’s just that sooo many descend on the Te Haruhi Bay campground, and think they’ve got some God given right to come around and swim at Tindalls.
      
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      December 16, 2020 9:41am
      - Pharmachick
        
        Not God-given Maggie, Monarchy-given… I believe it’s call the Queens chain. 😉
        
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        December 16, 2020 10:03am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Any camper in their right mind would be better off swimming with real people rather than the nouveau riche snobs who infest Tindalls Beach.
        
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        December 16, 2020 10:38am
      - Batman
        
        I never would have picked you for a terrible snob, Maggie P ?
        
        9 7
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        December 16, 2020 10:58am
      - GazzaW
        
        Oh the horror of all those peasants coming to use YOUR beach.
        
        I know that it’s a pain in the arse but not everyone can afford to buy or even rent a beachside holiday home. Lay back and think of the queen for a couple of weeks and enjoy your solitude for the remainder of the year.
        
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        December 16, 2020 11:02am
      - rangitoto
        
        Even happens with the ECB beaches. The two harbour bridges should be closed over the summer school holidays to keep the plebs out.
        
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        December 16, 2020 12:50pm
    - IC5000
      
      > And why would he say that Maggie?
      
      Obviously because you’d have to be a complete fuckwit.
      
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      December 16, 2020 7:42pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    In time I have been here the weather between Christmas and January can be not great. I get back to work about 4 January and try to take a 2 week break somewhere in February or early March. Awesome. No crowds. Nice weather.
    
    32 0
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    December 16, 2020 9:19am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Woks well for boating/fishing too. Less wankers on jetskis. Massive harbour, and what do they do? From nowhere they come circle you twice and then disappear
      
      12 4
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      December 16, 2020 9:54am
    - Flossie
      
      Nice idea and wish we could do that. However my partner’s employers shut the company down for two weeks over that very busy period and he’s obliged to take holidays then. I’m sure that applies to lots of people.
      
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      December 16, 2020 10:02am
  - Vallager
    
    Maybe, your partner could join us on this forum? I feel I know him so well.
    
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    December 16, 2020 9:59am
  - C J Southern
    
    That post says far more about you and your partner than either of you do about the campers.
    
    Sounds to me like the only way you can feel happy is when there’s people more miserable than you.
    
    13 13
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    December 16, 2020 10:00am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      “Sounds to me like the only way you can feel happy is when there’s people more miserable than you.”
      
      Excellent mirror you have there.
      
      13 6
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      December 16, 2020 10:15am
      - C J Southern
        
        Nice attempt at deflection – but still a miserable fail for you.
        
        2 5
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        December 16, 2020 5:11pm
  - rouppe
    
    Packing in cheek by jowl is not my idea of a holiday
    
    13 1
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    December 16, 2020 10:17am
  - JFAP
    
    What a mean-spirited person your partner is. I would leave him/her/them.
    
    11 5
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    December 16, 2020 10:52am
  - Bob
    
    Where?? on the back lawn??
    
    4 0
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    December 16, 2020 11:48am
  - Jimmy White
    
    Maggie that 500,000 includes the 120,000 homeless
    
    9 2
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    December 16, 2020 12:01pm
    - softail 1450
      
      Jimmy White ,what about the 1 in 5 children that are supposedly starving, hasn’t Cindy excelled at her “most important portfolio”
      Stay home with a cool beer the A/C on and the cricket, sounds like the suburbs will be the quietest places in the Country .
      
      9 3
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      December 16, 2020 12:30pm
      - Jimmy White
        
        1450, You can’t cook an omelette without breaking the eggs!. Cindy has reduced obesity in Children by 20% ( 1 in 5).
        
        11 2
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        December 16, 2020 1:35pm
  - Bobba Fret
    
    You need to get a new partner
    
    6 3
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    December 16, 2020 1:53pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The holiday park we go to had Christmas booked out last June. Likewise, Easter 2021 is booked out. Not for tents ,but caravans yes
  
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  December 16, 2020 9:51am
kowtow

Coroner finds 6 out of 9 examined fatal road deaths involved cannabis . Wot’s Chloe the Wunderkind got to say ’bout dat?

Ban cars ?
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December 16, 2020 8:35am
- Nickc2
  
  Shows the calibre of the people who voted for her!
  
  23 4
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  December 16, 2020 9:37am
- burt
  
  So 6 our of 9 people consume cannabis so why is it still illegal?
  
  5 21
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  December 16, 2020 9:40am
  - C J Southern
    
    Because often stupid people need to be protected from their own stupidity in an attempt to save others from the impact of said same stupidity.
    
    22 6
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    December 16, 2020 10:02am
  - Flossie
    
    Heaps of people speed too but that’s illegal.
    
    11 1
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    December 16, 2020 10:03am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Are you really implying that there is no causation between cannabis and road deaths?
    The fact that 6 out of 9 people that cause road deaths have cannabis in their system is reason enough for illegality (or are you saying that 6 out of 9 people in the general population at any given time have cannabis in their system?). It isn’t possible to hold them accountable for the cannabis in their system causing the deaths so it has to remain illegal until it’s possible to do so.
    
    18 1
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    December 16, 2020 10:37am
  - Parnell Gun Club
    
    This is the best anti-weed post I’ve seen in ages. Well done.
    
    15 1
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    December 16, 2020 10:50am
- Bob
  
  “Only 6 out of 9”. I must try harder to capture the remaining three level headed people.
  
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  December 16, 2020 11:58am
kowtow

Pity no one told the China virus not to mutate while they worked so heroically on the vaccine ………
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December 16, 2020 8:37am
- burt
  
  It gets better – we all need to have the vaccine because if some don’t have it there is a risk to those that have. This is science in 2020.
  
  13 3
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  December 16, 2020 9:41am
- Jimmy White
  
  Pity no one told China not to Develop another Strain of Covid to make the vaccine unless.
  
  9 2
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  December 16, 2020 12:04pm
oldgolfer

Tick tock, Trevor.
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December 16, 2020 8:37am
Ruahine

So more people have been killed on the roads this year because of cannabis use but evidently this is quite O.K. No roadside drug testing needed in NZ. But a couple of cases of Covid and the stupid ones force the shut down of Auckland because they can.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/coroner-expresses-alarm-at-finding-cannabis-implicated-in-six-of-nine-fatal-road-crashes/5UHZHD4OPHAIAKSNMLBJITOK7A/
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December 16, 2020 8:38am
- MCos
  
  Chap was killed driving home from a piss up
  “He was found to have five time the legal alcohol limit”, but it was the cannabis that got him . . . .
  
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  December 16, 2020 10:23am
  - Jimmy White
    
    In the USA his death would have been put down to Covid as his sisters boyfriend step mother had it.
    
    12 3
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    December 16, 2020 12:06pm
kowtow

Now that Trump’s out who or what is the Media party going to use to distract us all from the real issues facing us………
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December 16, 2020 8:39am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It’s Summertime…
  
  somewhere in NZ will be HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
  (24C outside and rising…..no wind, another fab day in the Bay)
  
  19 2
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  December 16, 2020 9:40am
  - Jimmy White
    
    Wait till Goff puts up the Rates by 20% Ohh forget that one
    Wait till the first fire in the ports Hills. Ohh forget that one.
    Wait till the first Truck driving down from Northport has an accident. Got it
    
    9 1
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    December 16, 2020 12:10pm
- oldfella
  
  kowtow: this is a good take on the dilemma facing the MSM in the US post Trump.
  ++
  President Trump has often said he is good for ratings. It seems CNN and MSNBC agree. One analysis claims that in 2016 he received $5.6 billion in free media during the primary and the general elections. This is an astonishing sum but goes a long way to supporting the president’s assertion. Love him or hate him, people were tuning in to see what he said and the corporate media knew it.
  https://pjmedia.com/culture/stacey-lennox/2020/12/15/the-corporate-media-ponders-a-post-trump-era-and-they-are-worried-n1212279
  
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  December 16, 2020 10:08am
Maggy Wassilieff

German Politician who engineered much of Germany’s Environmental Policy sees the light

prophets of doom have always been the most virulent enemies of the Enlightenment.

https://www.thegwpf.com/former-environment-senator-fritz-vahrenholt-we-are-threatened-by-a-dramatic-loss-of-prosperity/
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December 16, 2020 8:41am
- KevO'Brien
  
  I’ve archived it to share. It’s pleasing to read someone who has opened up their perception and reason to other than the current requirements.
  
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  December 16, 2020 9:21am
  - oldfella
    
    Agree, Kev. Really great article which I’ve already started to pass along. Not sure if we have too many such open minds in the Beehive.
    
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    December 16, 2020 10:20am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      They are very scarce among the socialist sub species.
      
      6 3
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      December 16, 2020 2:53pm
- SB2
  
  MW, the facts are that Fritz Vaherholt has evidently always being a cliimate change denier,
  
  https://skepticalscience.com/fritz-vahrenholt-duped-on-climate-change.html
  
  3 23
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  December 16, 2020 10:25am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    So once again SB2, you failed to read the article I linked to.
    
    For if you had read it , you would see that Fritz Vahrenholt is not and never was a climate-change denier.
    
    I am not denying the need for action or climate change itself – I am just coming to different conclusions about the scale or pace of it. I believe that it is not only humans who are responsible for climate change, but that natural factors are also at work.
    
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    December 16, 2020 11:33am
  - SB2
    
    MW, I think your need at my link more closely which is replete with examples like this,
    
    Misrepresenting Global Warming
    
    “..Early in the interview, Vahrenholt repeats a myth which has become increasingly popular amongst climate contrarians.
    
    “It hasn’t gotten any warmer on this planet in almost 14 years, despite continued increases in CO2 emissions. Established climate science has to come up with an answer to that.”
    
    Of course our first answer must point out that Vahrenholt’s assertion is false. Over the past 14 years, the average global surface temperature has warmed approximately 0.13°C, according to data from the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies. And of course surface air warming only represents a very small percentage of global warming, which has continued uninterrupted:…”
    
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    December 16, 2020 12:52pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    So, so am I. There are darn good reason to not uphold the UN. They say themselves they cannot predict climate.
    
    Scientists have to have disbelief. Look at the wonderful new sources of energy coming on stream in the near future. They wouldn’t have been found by closed minds. What are we going to do with all the surplus oil and coal and all the unneeded batteries? I’ve seen the birth of a lot of new technology and it’s buzzing at present.
    
    5 4
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    December 16, 2020 3:00pm
Benedict Yu

I came across this the other day.

https://www.mpi.govt.nz/about-mpi/our-work/fit-for-a-better-world-accelerating-our-economic-potential/

It is a government pledge to increase agricultural exports by 44 billion dollars between 2020 and 2030. Which is quite amazing. The government acknowledges that farmers cannot increase output. Because of climate change and water issues. So this 44 billion is going to come from “increasing value”. So we will export world class cheese instead of milk powder.

I just don’t see what government can do to make this happen. It would require unknown billions of investments by real people. The government just wishing it and setting up working groups will not do it.

This document has been out for a few months. As far as I know it is not being debated or critiqued by industry or the media. If you Google it all you get is the document itself and the original press release.

I think the role of government is to set up the conditions to let agriculture thrive. Whereas this government has essentially set up a “ten year plan” with its own ideas of what the sector will look like in 10 years. At the very least this deserves to be debated and seriously. I have heard no opposition MP raise it or ask ministers questions.

So David Seymour if you are reading this, another thing for you to look at. At least this time around you have a team to allocate stuff to.
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December 16, 2020 8:44am
- Swifty
  
  We debated it here a few months back Benedict – it was real wet-finger in the air, pie in the sky stuff.
  
  I confidently predict we’ll not get close – and if we did it would be the product of the government getting the hell out of the way – not active involvement from them.
  
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  December 16, 2020 10:08am
- KevO'Brien
  
  If volume cannot change the extra must be from price changes. Our domestic prices are rising, but will our exports hold up in the present failing markets?
  It’s a bit of a tease to hike ag. export prices at present. NZ is generally a price taker we are not solely a boutique supplier where we define the price.
  
  This govt unfortunately believes in their self worth so advice has to be reduce to sycophancy to be acceptable–i.e. useless. Ideologues plan; capitalists do.
  
  An implicit argument against a 4 year term for the govt at present.
  
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  December 16, 2020 3:23pm
Maggie Pie

Thort many in the group would probably appreciate this as well 😀
Ma retweeted us last night and wondered if we could pick out Phil and Helen. Shit we laughed.

https://twitter.com/NZjusticeSUCKS/status/1338694186371977216
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December 16, 2020 8:46am
- sooty
  
  Not a reefer in sight!
  
  12 1
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  December 16, 2020 8:57am
- Papalazarou
  
  New Zealand’s very own Manson Family (not you, Ted)
  
  2 0
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  December 16, 2020 8:08pm
Nukuleka

Now that Biden has been endorsed by the Electoral College I am looking forward to reading a post about this man’s credentials for holding this position- all his accomplishments as a 47 year old veteran politician. Not a post about how he can only be better because he is not ‘you know who’ or because he is nicer than ‘you know who’ or because he is going to restore democracy and dignity and unity to the USA after ‘you know who’. But what he actually has done for the American people in his 47 years of political life.
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December 16, 2020 8:53am
- C J Southern
  
  In the eyes of Trump supporters, Biden will only ever be seen to have 2 faults: “Everything he says” and “everything he does”.
  
  Great that they’re being so “open minded” and “impartial” …
  
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  December 16, 2020 10:07am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    Please feel free to list Biden’s manifold accomplishments. Start with his behavior back in the Vietnam years.
    
    22 5
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    December 16, 2020 10:17am
    - SB2
      
      “12 Vietnam veterans: Joe Biden must be our next commander-in-chief”
      
      Fellow Americans:
      
      We veterans of the Vietnam War represent all branches of the military, hail from all parts of the country, and embody all backgrounds, faiths, races and walks of life. You could say we are as American as apple pie. When our country called, we followed in our World War II fathers’ footsteps and served during the nation’s most divisive war.
      
      Because of who we are, what we did, and what we have learned about service and sacrifice, we affirm with one voice that Joe Biden must be our next commander-in-chief.
      
      During the Vietnam era, many of us were too young to vote, or even buy a beer in some states. But we were not too young to die, as more than 58,000 of our generation did. Regardless of our personal politics, we learned the hard way how essential integrity, responsibility and character are to leadership. Our current president possesses none of these qualities..”
      …
      https://madison.com/ct/opinion/column/12-vietnam-veterans-joe-biden-must-be-our-next-commander-in-chief/article_65d24d4a-fb77-517e-9189-828e5a0e3a73.html
      
      3 12
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      December 16, 2020 1:03pm
  - Fletch
    
    How hypocritical, when all the liberals, including the Democrats and the media, attacked Trump in everything he did. It doesn’t matter what it was, they found a way to spin it so he always looked bad. They never gave him a chance from day one. So don’t dare go on about being “open minded” and “impartial” when the Dems never were.
    
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    December 16, 2020 11:19am
  - Nukuleka
    
    Not sure where you get the impartial and open- minded in brackets from. Certainly not my own impartial and open-minded post. Answer the question I asked! Or are there no answers?
    
    9 1
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    December 16, 2020 11:59am
- rangitoto
  
  He’s the head of a crime family. Is that enough?
  
  15 3
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  December 16, 2020 10:54am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Rico again?
    
    2 4
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    December 16, 2020 3:25pm
kwkiwigirl

Funny how the pro Ardern propaganda continues on NZH. Still can’t do a thing wrong, still publishing flattering photos of her constantly. I guess nzh can’t bite the hand that feeds them. Even dogs don’t do that…

Notice how all the decent right leaning articles by Joyce and Prebble are behind nzh paywall.
Brilliant though to see Richard Prebble has started writing for nzh. You can get a cheap sub with nzh if you have them on by phone. I still subscribe with them as the OneRoof property articles are decent.
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December 16, 2020 9:00am
Maggy Wassilieff

The argument for animal farming
https://notrickszone.com/2020/12/15/uc-davis-prof-dismisses-climate-doom-by-livestock-cows-lead-to-greater-food-yield-carbon-sequestration/
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December 16, 2020 9:03am
- cmm
  
  Yup, this is well proven in many places.
  
  They fixed barren land in Zimbabwe by running livestock on it.
  
  There have been cows (or other hoofed equivalents) running around the planet forever. Biologically there’s no real difference between a wild bison, wildebeest or a domestic cow.
  
  All the feed that goes into cows (except a small amount of fish meal etc) comes from plants photosynthesizing and capturing CO2. Much of that is not digested and falls out the back end and becomes part of the soil.
  
  But there’s no troughing to be had from pointing this out.
  
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  December 16, 2020 9:18am
Fletch

Dan Crenshaw comes out with his second blockbuster election ad – this time aimed at the runoffs in Georgia…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi2yvpdtz1M
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December 16, 2020 9:16am
- curry4me
  
  Fletch: If a fraction of ads were that good; broadcast TV would be worth watching ust to see them.
  
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  December 17, 2020 6:23pm
Maggie Pie

LATEST…

Is Australia standing in the way of China’s plans to attack the US?
Maybe that’s why the CCP are punishing the Morrison government with such crippling high tariffs…..hmmm 🙁

https://twitter.com/RonnieProsser/status/1338937478271668226
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December 16, 2020 9:20am
- C J Southern
  
  FFS.
  
  Please tell me that you’re only trolling and that you don’t seriously believe that garbage.
  
  Do people on Twitter not have ANY connection to reality?
  
  7 22
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  December 16, 2020 10:10am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Hmmm ……I see where David Garret referred to you this morning CJ, with his comment on the Kiwiblog Awards post.
    
    17 5
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    December 16, 2020 10:28am
    - C J Southern
      
      *** BREAKING NEWS ***
      
      I just read on Twitter that the evil Biden has teamed up with Bill Gates to distribute microchip trackers by embedding them in toilet paper.
      
      They’re too small to see (even under a microscope) and can track where you are – what drugs you’ve been taking – even what you’re eating.
      
      You need to immediately protect yourself against this threat to your liberty and rights by avoiding the use of all brands of toilet paper immediately (apparantly all manufacturers are in on this).
      
      This is real folks – it’s been confirmed on Twitter and The Gateway Pundit.
      
      Update: It’s now been censored and removed from both of those sources by the cartel – so we now have absolutely unequivocal evidence that this is real!
      
      Y’all need to immediately stop using all types and brands of toilet paper!!!
      
      3 4
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      December 16, 2020 5:21pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Funny how i can always provide a link to prove authenticity.
        
        You? Nah…not so much.
        
        6 4
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        December 16, 2020 7:15pm
      - C J Southern
        
        Ha – you NEVER provide credible links for ANYTHING. It’s always the same old rubbish that tells you what you want to hear but never stands up in court.
        
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        December 16, 2020 9:44pm
- SB2
  
  MP , I suggst your Ronnie Prosser is a tad unhinged ,
  
  https://twitter.com/RonnieProsser/status/1335996286106005507
  
  4 19
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  December 16, 2020 10:48am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Guess you’d be a good judge.
    
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    December 16, 2020 11:50am
    - SB2
      
      Indeed I believe so!
      
      2 12
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      December 16, 2020 1:07pm
Jack5

Fear of the Woke – or perhaps more likely fear of Charlied Hedbo type terrorism – has blocked publication of a book by the stroppy British journalist Julie Burchill after a Twitter encounter.

Burchill, who describes herself as a militant feminist, had a book on the way with the publisher Little, Brown.

The Times says the book, Welcome to the Woke Trials: How Identity killed progressive politics, was to be a “characteristically irreverent and entertaining” indictment of the “outrage mob” and its impact on freedom of speech.

Little, Brown, the publisher, announced it would not publish the book in April, as planned, after Burchill “crossed a line” by accusing Ash Sarkar, a left-wing commentator, of “worshipping a paedophile” because she was Muslim.

The row began when Sarkar Twittered to her 270,000 followers that a 2012 Spectator article by Rod Liddle included, about secondary-school girls: “The one thing stopping me from being a teacher was that I could not remotely conceive of not trying to shag the kids.”

Sarkar wrote that while Liddle was talking about 14-year-olds and 15-year-olds, “that’s still child sexual abuse and it’s astonishing that both he and his editor thought guffawing about hypothetically being a paedophile made for a good article.”

Burchill tweeted in response:

”“Can you please remind me of the age of the Prophet Mohammad’s first wife? Thank you in anticipation.”
AND
“I don’t WORSHIP a paedophile. If Aisha was nine, YOU do. Lecturer, lecture thyself!”

Aisha was the Prophet’s third and youngest wife. According to Wikipedia, the Prophet was 53 when he married Aisha, aged nine.
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December 16, 2020 9:34am
- plc
  
  In the 70s and 80s when I used to read the NME, Julie Burchill was the attack dog of culture politics. Massively anti-Thatcher, pro-Greenham Common etc.
  
  Funny how people broaden their view as they get older.
  
  Her articles in the Telegraph over the past few years are one of the many joys of my subscription.
  
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  December 16, 2020 10:03am
- krazykiwi
  
  Prophet was 53 when he married Aisha, aged nine
  
  Technical correction: Aisha was just six years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad, himself in his 50s, and only nine when the marriage was consummated. In AD621 betrothal was the beginning of life-long subservience.
  
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  December 16, 2020 2:54pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I’ve read similar comments a number of times on Kiwiblog. His wife’s age at marriage is not definitively known, but it wouldn’t be unusual in that time in that culture for a marriage to be consumated at the wife’s puberty. The age of consent, etc, has varied markedly over time and cultures.
    For example, in Virginia, until 2008, an adult could marry a 14-year-old victim to avoid a rape charge.
    
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    December 16, 2020 4:20pm
Maggie Pie

And I’ll tell you something else that REALLY pisses me off.
When I head down to the pool, there’s always a bloody spider-web in the same place across the path that gets me in the face every time.
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December 16, 2020 9:48am
- sooty
  
  Heh, heh. It knows your coming!
  
  13 0
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  December 16, 2020 9:57am
- MCos
  
  “When you are going through hell, keep going”
  ― Winston Churchill
  
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  December 16, 2020 3:15pm
BeaB

Perky, up-beat item on Radio NZ morning Report this morning about the amazing arrangements for Christmas food parcels and dinners by the City Mission so people can just drive up in their cars and collect their Xmas dinner ready to cook. It is all so terrific and lots of demand because of Covid!
Not a question about why so many people need to drive up in their cars to feed their families, not a question about why so many people are struggling, not a question how Covid could possibly be the cause, not a question about what on earth our transformational government and Queen of Kindness was doing about it.
No. For Radio NZ, everything in the Labour garden is wonderful and we are all so enthusiastic and thrilled to bits all those lovely poor people will be given a Xmas dinner by a terrifically well-organised charity.
29 1
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December 16, 2020 9:59am
- Doctor Sigmund Freud
  
  Poverty in Aotearoa is so much fun!
  
  15 1
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  December 16, 2020 11:38am
Swifty

What a joke!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/123721733/ganesh-nana-appointed-to-chair-productivity-commission

This Labour government has repeatedly, over the last three years, taken actions to hamper, degrade, restrain and down-right destroy the productivity of New Zealand businesses and the government sector by ‘fair-pay’ (more pay) agreements, raising the minimum wage (pay more), increasing public holiday and sick-leave entitlements, pay-equity (pay more) settlements, living-wage (more pay) implementations etc etc etc.

Every one of these actions result in businesses and the government paying more for the same outputs – the very definition of a productivity drop.

And now they want to piss away even more of our money on a Productivity Commission.

It’s a joke. This government is treating us like idiots. The NZ Labour Party has repeatedly shown it prioritises using it’s powers to reward it’s supporters, at the expense of others, and that it doesn’t give two hoots about business and government productivity.
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December 16, 2020 10:01am
- plc
  
  Second piece of payback…..the first obviously related to his son.
  
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  December 16, 2020 10:09am
- Benedict Yu
  
  umm… you are taking the wrong line on this. The Productivity Commission was established more than a decade ago. It usually produces good reports (for example on planning, regulation, and housing affordability), all of which have been ignored by the Government.
  
  The Key Government established it after the GFC, and Bill English made every Government department chip in money from their budgets to pay for it.
  
  What IS worrying is that this guy has been appointed to head it. He has always been closely associated with Labour and was a member of this outfit:
  
  http://www.weag.govt.nz/about-the-weag/about-us/dr-ganesh-nana/
  
  You know the welfare advisory group that demanded that benefits be increased by 50 percent.
  
  There are 20 better economists in New Zealand who could have been appointed. It is a real shame. Yet another one. Shame #673 probably.
  
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  December 16, 2020 10:37am
  - Swifty
    
    Sorry if you misunderstood me, I certainly could have phrased that better – I know that the Productivity Commission has existed for years and my point is that it is hypocritical for them to continue to fund such a commission while having done many, many things to degrade our productivity in the last three years.
    
    If Ganesh Nana is to be taken seriously I would expect his first recommendation would be that the Labour government reverse all their productivity destroyers implemented over the last three years – and his second recommendation would be for Labour to stay the hell out of the NZ labour market.
    
    But he won’t.
    
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    December 16, 2020 11:22am
- mikenmildagain
  
  The productivity commission was an ACT idea from the time of the Key government, I believe.
  
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  December 16, 2020 10:42am
  - Swifty
    
    Yep, cheers, could have phrased my points better.
    
    8 0
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    December 16, 2020 11:23am
- Doctor Sigmund Freud
  
  I think it’s a great idea in raising the minimum wage (pay more), increasing public holiday and sick-leave entitlements, pay-equity (pay more) settlements, living-wage (more pay) implementations.
  
  Employees and unions have always been ‘asshole’.
  
  It gives hard working self-employed immigrant families heaps of opportunities while disgusting, self entitled white trash are busy getting their vile tattoos done.
  
  As Bob Jones says, who would you rather perv at!
  
  lol at white trash.
  
  8 2
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  December 16, 2020 11:36am
  - Swifty
    
    An early start?
    
    2 1
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    December 16, 2020 12:09pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  When are we going to have NZ’s 10 Year Plan?
  
  The Eastern European model wasn’t a success. You cannot plan a society in the detail required. Venezuela has difficulties too.
  Are they going to stop the wage/price spiral first or are they going to adapt to the inflation?
  
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  December 16, 2020 3:33pm
lastmanstanding

To those who down tick and sneer at my and other concerns around China take note China has demanded Australia change 14 laws or it will ban coal exports from Australia. This is a warning to NZ not that it matters as the Ardern Government is a puppet of the CCP/ Never forget the “Comrades” speech of Ardern only a few years ago.
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December 16, 2020 10:08am
- oldfella
  
  lastmanstanding: Just remember, ‘Never trust China. China is asshole!’ I think those words, spoken originally by a Hong Kong democracy protester, sums it up perfectly.
  
  15 2
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  December 16, 2020 10:32am
- mikenmildagain
  
  At present, Labour and National are in a tight competition to prove who can suck up the most to the Beijing dictatorship.
  
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  December 16, 2020 10:43am
  - ISeeRed
    
    Upticked you for the first time ever.
    
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    December 18, 2020 8:50pm
- Batman
  
  Fine to have concerns about China but your claims that the Ardern Govt is a puppet of the CCP is factually lacking.
  
  And while the comrades speech was a bit of fun for us all, it’s not a strong basis for holding something over the PM when she’s since been shown to be so incredibly moderate and a bit useless.
  
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  December 16, 2020 11:17am
  - Doctor Sigmund Freud
    
    When Sigmund agrees with you…
    
    7 3
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    December 16, 2020 11:32am
- Fletch
  
  There was a correspondant from Oz on NewsTalk the other day saying how China has slapped tariffs on Australian wine and other exports like 212% etc.
  
  https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/30/business/australia-china-wine-tariffs-intl-hnk/index.html
  
  I believe they are doing it with other exports as well.
  
  10 3
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  December 16, 2020 11:26am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Nanaia is going to sort this matter out:
  
  Mahuta highlighted the fact that New Zealand’s whakapapa, or kinship connections, go back to the Asia region. “That enables us to navigate our relations with China perhaps a little differently than other countries,”
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/15/new-zealand-foreign-minister-offers-to-help-broker-peace-deal-between-australia-and-china
  
  16 2
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  December 16, 2020 11:27am
  - Bob
    
    I was mislead during school history lessons in 1954. We were told that the Maori came from Waikiki somewhere in the Pacific.
    
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    December 16, 2020 11:51am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Yes,
      I think it has been quite a revelation for many Māori folk, too.
      
      I know some of the young men I taught weren’t too happy learning their ancestors came from Asia.
      
      I saw a life-size statue in Taiwan of one of the members of an indigenous tribe that was strikingly similar in body build and facial features to one of my Tūhoe mates.
      
      14 1
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      December 16, 2020 12:18pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        DNA shows Polynesians came through Taiwan. (Our Maori did come from China, does the CCP know?)
        
        4 3
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        December 16, 2020 3:37pm
    - Matt Long
      
      There’s a strong genetic connection with indigenous people of Taiwan, that will really help with a feeling of kinship with the CCP won’t it?
      
      13 1
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      December 16, 2020 12:29pm
      - Libertarians are right
        
        It’s worse. They’ll probably claim ownership of NZ due to their ancestors arriving first.
        
        12 1
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        December 16, 2020 12:49pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      You weren’t misled at all. Maori migrated to NZ from the Cook Is area about 800-900 year ago. The much wider Austronesian migrations appear to have originated from Taiwan over 2,000 years before that, covering a vast are from Madagascar to Easter Island.
      
      6 2
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      December 16, 2020 1:34pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      True, that a region towards Tahiti. More DNA info is available now showing population movements.
      
      3 2
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      December 16, 2020 3:38pm
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    First thing she could do is commit New Zealand to buying Australian Coal rather than dirty Indonesian Coal which China is starting to buy.
    Maybe a relevant question would be;
    “Why is New Zealand burning dirty coal when superior lower emissions coal is available?”
    
    13 1
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    December 16, 2020 12:25pm
Nickc2

Did I hear correctly that Maori are to be given cheaper electrical power and more time to pay their bills, all care of Megan Woods?
I’ve already had my ‘prompt payment’ discount removed (Energy On-Line) care of this Govt. with their reason being it’s unfair on those who can’t pay on time. What’s next, free food? Oh, shit, they already get that.
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December 16, 2020 10:12am
Maggie Pie

The NZH reports…

International journal ‘Naturalist’ recognizes PM Jacinda Adern for her decisive actions during 2020.
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December 16, 2020 10:15am
- plc
  
  Sure it wasn’t the “Naturist”?…..as the Empress has no clothes
  
  19 1
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  December 16, 2020 10:17am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I thought a naturalist was person who goes camping with other people without clothes?
  
  11 2
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  December 16, 2020 10:30am
I remember when

Dr Steven Woolf, a professor of Family Medicine and Population Health at Virginia Commonwealth University, responding to Genevieve Briand article.
“Any reputable analysis of excess deaths is based on statistical modelling that computes seasonal averages over a period of many years, and this is done to adjust for random variations from year to year.
Our studies use Poisson regression modelling. Statistical modelling is necessary to know whether differences in deaths counts are statistically significant.
Researchers prefer to use statistical modelling to know whether a supposed change in counts is random variation or a statistically significant trend.”
The question seems to be why is the number of statistically significant deaths so hard to pin down?
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December 16, 2020 10:16am
I remember when

Remember when the sound barrier or speed of light were indications of rapid action.
Is it now response to articles suggesting fault with covid-19 or climate change beliefs or actions?
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December 16, 2020 10:23am
SB2

Why we should not be surprised !,

As Trump Scorned Covid-19 Precautions, Climate Deniers Echoed and Expanded that Message

“..Earlier on Thursday, researchers at Cornell University released a study finding that President Donald Trump was linked to nearly 38 percent of the misinformation they identified in 38 million articles about the pandemic. “The biggest surprise was that the president of the United States was the single largest driver of misinformation around Covid,” Sarah Evanega, the study’s lead author, told The New York Times.

DeSmog has been tracking connections between opponents of climate action and the so-called Reopen Movement and today is publishing archives of comments by individuals and groups that historically have circulated messages that denied or downplayed climate change and who also pushed for inaction on Covid-19 or circulated misinformation about the virus.

Back on March 16, DeSmog reported on ways that organizations opposed to climate action “are now spreading misinformation on the coronavirus, with potentially deadly consequences….”

https://www.desmogblog.com/2020/10/02/trump-scorned-covid-19-precautions-climate-deniers-echoed-and-expanded-message
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December 16, 2020 10:39am
- Fletch
  
  LOL, DeSmog – climate… I wonder if that’s his real name?
  
  12 6
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  December 16, 2020 11:27am
  - SB2
    
    Fletch , the fact you are a Trump supporter ( including his stance on Covid 19 ) and I understand a climate change denier ( like Trump ) is just a conincidence?
    
    3 17
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    December 16, 2020 1:11pm
    - softail 1450
      
      SB2 “conincidence” LOL.
      
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      December 16, 2020 4:35pm
lazza

BYEEE Duck!
13 1
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December 16, 2020 10:41am
- Paulus
  
  No Way – Duck is too valuable to Cindy to shut down any adverse comment.
  And he knows where the bodies are buried despite his should be there,
  
  5 1
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  December 16, 2020 2:16pm
mikenmildagain

It’s the 250th anniversary today of the birth of Beethoven.
“Beethoven’s gone but his music lives on”
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=monty+python+decomposing+composers&docid=608014928351200739&mid=9448E8BDE464C6D028879448E8BDE464C6D02887&view=detail&FORM=VIRE
14 1
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December 16, 2020 10:45am
Maggie Pie

BUTTIGIEG ….honestly, that would have to be one of the most gay sounding names I’ve ever heard

LOL!!
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December 16, 2020 11:08am
- Batman
  
  Cruising towards a reprimand this week, Maggie
  
  9 24
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  December 16, 2020 11:20am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    https://i.imgflip.com/45mg4i.jpg
    
    15 5
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    December 16, 2020 11:46am
    - RJ
      
      Ignore the bullies Maggie, continue to shine your joy and humour, it’s appreciated.
      
      17 8
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      December 16, 2020 12:39pm
      - Batman
        
        It’s not ‘bullying’ to advise that someone is skirting close to the wind.
        
        Ya bunch of bloody snowflakes ?
        
        7 12
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        December 16, 2020 1:38pm
      - RJ
        
        Nothing wrong with what she said, learn to laugh you snowflake
        
        13 5
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        December 16, 2020 1:50pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Easy does it RJ…just take the thousand, we need you back 😀
        
        4 4
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        December 16, 2020 2:49pm
- SB2
  
  Maggie Pie, like Patrick Pizzella a Trump acting secretary?
  
  LOL
  
  2 17
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  December 16, 2020 1:20pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Lucky for you stephie I’m under a ‘reprimand warning’ from Bats.
    
    Have a nice day.
    
    15 4
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    December 16, 2020 1:45pm
- oldfella
  
  MP, Buttigieg has an even more gay sounding nickname on some sites. I tried to mention it in an earlier reply to you but someone it got bounced. Not even a ‘mods warning’. Just vanished.
  Considering some of the strong language and insults I see thrown around on KB, I thought my comments were very tame.
  
  5 3
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  December 16, 2020 3:54pm
- MFD
  
  “one of the most gay sounding names I’ve ever heard”
  
  Pie just sounds irrational.
  
  3 0
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  December 16, 2020 9:34pm
Bob

Well!! colour me completely surprised!
What a litany of failure to deliver to the electorate for Christmas; so soon after 50.7% were so impressed with the governments 3 years of (mismanagement)/ performance that they re-elected it.
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December 16, 2020 11:15am
Swifty

Railways of the Pacific Wonderland (1939)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQv7P4VA4mI

Footage of the Yates Building, my old workplace, and home of the Green Parrot at 1:50.
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December 16, 2020 11:28am
oldfella

Don’t suppose Ali Mau will have any thoughts on this. Nah!
++
The deafening sound you hear over credible sexual harassment allegations against Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D-NY) proves once again that the #MeToo movement is a big fraud, a total fake, a cynical grift that doesn’t care even a little bit about protecting women, or ensuring they are at least listened to and taken seriously.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/15/nolte-joe-biden-bill-clinton-redux-metoos-silence-protects-gov-andrew-cuomo/
The deafening sound you hear over credible sexual harassment allegations against Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D-NY) proves once again that the #MeToo movement is a big fraud, a total fake, a cynical grift that doesn’t care even a little bit about protecting women, or ensuring they are at least listened to and taken seriously.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/15/nolte-joe-biden-bill-clinton-redux-metoos-silence-protects-gov-andrew-cuomo/
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December 16, 2020 11:32am
- oldfella
  
  Whoops, managed to paste that Cuomo content twice. Duh!
  
  5 4
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  December 16, 2020 12:27pm
  - greybeard
    
    No problems , Oldfella.
    Your name tells us all we need to know.
    I have the same problem.
    
    2 1
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    December 16, 2020 3:48pm
- SB2
  
  Well, it has to pale in comparsion to Trump’s pussy grabbing escapdes etc.
  
  Breitbart needs to remind its readers but never will.
  
  3 24
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  December 16, 2020 1:27pm
Fletch

Jacinda has made the top 10 list of people who “shaped science” in 2020. Not sure how that works ?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/12/covid-19-jacinda-ardern-named-as-one-of-nature-s-top-10-people-who-shape-science-in-2020.html
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December 16, 2020 12:17pm
- SB2
  
  Fletch it works like this. Jacinda listened to her scientific advisors.
  
  Trump did not!
  
  It’s as simple as that!
  
  3 25
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  December 16, 2020 1:13pm
- simpleton1
  
  Rationalizing science, for everyone’s greater good. Yeah right.
  
  5 1
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  December 16, 2020 2:08pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  She’s a work of art, not science.
  
  6 4
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  December 16, 2020 3:42pm
oldfella

Stop the world, I want to get off…
++
The Cartoon Network now “celebrating gender diversity,” and promoting the use of self-selected pronouns to 6-year-olds.
https://notthebee.com/article/the-cartoon-network-now-celebrating-gender-diversity-and-promoting-the-use-of-self-selected-pronouns-to-6-year-olds
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December 16, 2020 12:18pm
Maggie Pie

CNN’s Wolf Blitzem reporting “President-elect Joe Biden will receive the Corona-Virus vaccine later this week, and will do so live on television”.

Breitbart reports “….people with knowledge of the affair maintain Joe is quietly crapping himself”
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December 16, 2020 12:19pm
- oldfella
  
  Maggie, imagine if Biden has a bad reaction to the jab and falls over.
  Gee, do you think the MSM would even cover it? 😉
  
  9 3
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  December 16, 2020 12:30pm
  - RJ
    
    No they’d be crying, no one sworn in, president Harris will never happen.
    
    6 4
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    December 16, 2020 1:02pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    And he certainly wouldn’t get any help from his wife!
    
    Jill calls herself ‘Dr’ for goodness sake.
    That would be like our ex Health Minister Doctor David Clark claiming to be a cosmetic surgeon.
    
    13 6
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    December 16, 2020 1:16pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Yes, many morons claim that only those with a medical qualification should be called ‘doctor’. But what can one do about such widespread ignorance?
      
      8 10
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      December 16, 2020 1:30pm
      - lifesgood
        
        Most people are unaware that Medical doctors, i.e. those who are not specialists are NOT doctors. They merely have two bachelors degrees. In their case doctor is simply an honorary title. People with doctorates, in whatever subject, are true doctors.
        
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        December 16, 2020 3:34pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Yeah. The word ‘doctor’ comes from the Latin verb ‘docere’ – to teach. It’s nothing specific to medicine, which until modern times was a distinctly inferior profession to anyone with an actual university doctorate.
        
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        December 16, 2020 4:11pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      I have to agree with mikenmildagain on this one, Maggie.
      
      See “Why ‘Dr.’ Jill Biden Matters”, here: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2020/12/why-dr-jill-biden-matters.html?.
      
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      December 16, 2020 3:59pm
- RJ
  
  It will just be saline.
  
  12 4
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  December 16, 2020 12:31pm
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    Won’t matter they will just leave the cap on, it is all just show.
    
    6 2
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    December 16, 2020 1:57pm
- SB2
  
  Breitbart ??
  
  2 17
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  December 16, 2020 1:14pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Correct. Outside of ‘Newsmax’, probably one of the most respected News sources in America.
    
    10 6
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    December 16, 2020 2:01pm
    - SB2
      
      MP, your bizzare , wacko sense of humour on the rise.
      
      3 8
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      December 16, 2020 4:34pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  I hope he’s not over 60.
  
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  December 16, 2020 3:45pm
Fletch

From Bill Barr’s resignation letter to Trump –

Your record is all the more historic because you accomplished it in the face of relentless, implacable resistance. Your 2016 victory speech in which you reached out to your opponents and called for working together for the benefit of the American people was immediately met by a partisan onslaught against you in which no tactic, no matter how abusive and deceitful, was out of bounds. The nadir of this campaign was the effort to cripple, if not oust, your Administration with frenzied and baseless accusations of collusion with Russia.

Few could have, weathered these attacks, much less forge ahead with a positive program for the country. You built the strongest and most resilient economy in American history — one that has brought unprecedented progress to those previously left out. You have restored American military strength. By brokering historic peace deals in the Mideast you have achieved what most thought impossible. You have curbed illegal immigration and enhanced the security of our nation’s borders. You have advanced the rule of law by appointing a record number of judges committed to constitutional principles. With Operation Warp Speed, you delivered a vaccine for coronavirus on a schedule no one thought conceivable — a feat that will undoubtedly save millions of lives.

During your Administration, the Department of Justice has worked tirelessly to protect the public from violent crime; worked closely with leaders in Mexico to fight the drug cartels; cracked down on China’s exploitation of our economy and workers; defended competition in the marketplace, especially the technology sector; and supported the men and women of law enforcement who selflessly—and too often thanklessly—risk their lives to keep our communities safe.
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December 16, 2020 1:14pm
- SB2
  
  Fletch , could you source that” letter of” resigantion”
  
  The Pfzer vaccine was not an out come of operation warp speed .
  
  3 12
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  December 16, 2020 4:36pm
  - Fletch
    
    Yes it was.
    
    https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2020/11/10/pfizer-says-it-is-participating-in-trumps-operation-warp-speed-contradicting-media-denials/
    
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    December 16, 2020 8:11pm
Fletch

From the National Archives – this is how the vote with electors works –

December 14, 2020—electors vote in their States
The electors meet in their respective States and vote for President and Vice President on separate ballots. The electors record their votes on six Certificates of Vote, which are paired with the six remaining Certificates of Ascertainment. The electors sign, seal, and certify six sets of electoral votes. A set of electoral votes consists of one Certificate of Ascertainment and one Certificate of Vote.

December 23, 2020—electoral votes arrive
Electoral votes (the Certificates of Vote) must be received by the President of the Senate and the Archivist no later than nine days after the meeting of the electors. If votes are lost or delayed, the Archivist may take extraordinary measures to retrieve duplicate originals.

On or before January 3, 2021—Archivist transfers Certificates to Congress

As the new Congress assembles, the Archivist transmits sets of Certificates to Congress, as requested. This generally happens when the Senate does not receive its set of Certificates on time. The transfer occurs in late December or early January when OFR’s Legal staff meets with representatives of the Secretary of the Senate and the Clerk of the House.

January 6, 2021—Congress counts the electoral votes
Congress meets in joint session to count the electoral votes. The Vice President, as President of the Senate, presides over the count and announces the results of the Electoral College vote. The President of the Senate then declares which persons, if any, have been elected President and Vice President of the United States.

If any objections to the electoral votes are made, they must be submitted in writing and be signed by at least one member of the House and one Senator. If objections are presented, the House and Senate withdraw to their respective chambers to consider the merits of the objection(s) under procedures set out in Federal law.

If no Presidential candidate wins at least 270 electoral votes (a majority of the 538 available votes), under the 12th Amendment to the Constitution the House of Representatives decides the Presidential election. If necessary, the House would elect the President by majority vote, choosing from among the three candidates who received the greatest number of electoral votes. The vote would be taken by State, with each State having one vote. (The District of Columbia does not vote because it doesn’t have voting members in the House of Representatives.)

If no Vice Presidential candidate wins at least 270 electoral votes (a majority or the 538 available votes), under the 12th Amendment the Senate elects the Vice President. If necessary, the Senate would elect the Vice President by majority vote, choosing between the two candidates who received the greatest number of electoral votes. Each Senator would have one vote.

January 20, 2021 at Noon—Inauguration Day
The President-elect and Vice President-elect take the Oath of Office and become the President of the United States and Vice President of the United States, respectively.

So the votes are counted on January the 6th. Not yesterday, and not today.
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December 16, 2020 1:21pm
- RJ
  
  Yeah and you have the 6 or 7 states where the legislators casted their votes for trump that make it even more interesting. The corrupt commies will be worried.
  
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  December 16, 2020 1:49pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    The legislators don’t vote for president. Their constituents have already voted for the electors, who have now themselves voted. Republican legislators in some states have attempted to name, fraudulently, substitute slates of electors, but it doesn’t work like that.
    But now that’s out of the way, you can move on to the next crazy theory…
    
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    December 16, 2020 2:14pm
    - RJ
      
      Who’s you don’t understand what has happened and what it means, no surprise there. Oh and it’s not fraudulent. Might want to go educate yourself
      
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      December 16, 2020 2:35pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Don’t worry. When those legislators corrupt votes for Trump have been ignored, you’ll just be along with something even crazier, like Pence refusing to open all the envelopes, congress refusing to count the votes, some extremely loony appeal to the supreme court, or the Russian asset declaring martial law…
        
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        December 16, 2020 3:29pm
    - Fletch
      
      The legislators are kind enough to let the citizens vote to choose electors, but they don’t have to and they didn’t used to. They can take back that right at any time they please – especially if there are conflicts.
      
      5 4
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      December 16, 2020 4:32pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        They can take back that right at any time they please – especially if there are conflicts.
        
        That’s nonsense, Fletch, as I explained to you on Sunday, at “How the Electoral College works”, at 11:38AM.
        
        Now read this article, which is just a few hours old: https://time.com/5922092/mcconnell-warns-republicans-biden/.
        
        Extract: “I want to congratulate President-elect Joe Biden,” McConnell said as he opened the Senate.
        
        There will be no shenanigans on the floor of the House come 1:00PM on January 6.
        
        “It’s over”.
        
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        December 16, 2020 5:40pm
      - Batman
        
        I’m sure Matt Gaetz and Ron Johnson will lodge a protest on the day. Heck, Johnson is holding a Senate Oversight Committee hearing on the ‘fraud’ tomorrow apparently.
        
        The true fail point will be when both houses vote and it falls over with the Dem majority in the House… Let alone the pro-democracy faction of the Senate which is all the Dems plus the self-respecting Repubs like Romney etc
        
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        December 16, 2020 5:46pm
      - Fletch
        
        The true fail point will be when both houses vote and it falls over with the Dem majority in the House
        
        You missed this part –
        
        The vote would be taken by State, with each State having one vote.
        
        The vote outcome isn’t dependent on whether the Dems have a majority in the House itself. Each state gets one, and only one, vote. And there are more Republican votes in that scenario.
        
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        December 16, 2020 8:15pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    But those votes will not have been certified by the Governors of the respective states, so will be set aside (on January 6).
    
    See https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/3/6, and https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32717.pdf, Receipt of Two Certificates from the Same State, pp. 8-9.
    
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    December 16, 2020 3:36pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      He’ll just set your fake Cornell University opinion against his ‘real’ information from Breitbart or the Gateway Pundit.
      
      4 8
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      December 16, 2020 3:39pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Groan!
        
        What will he come up with after 6:00AM on Thursday, 21 January (our time), I wonder?
        
        4 6
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        December 16, 2020 4:05pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      1776.
      
      3 4
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      December 16, 2020 3:47pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        I suppose that’s yet another irrelevant reference to the Declaration of Independence, Kev?
        
        4 3
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        December 16, 2020 4:10pm
- Wayne Mapp
  
  The formal count is made on 6 January, but we already know that the Congress will be advised the votes of the Electoral College. The Congress will simply confirm these on 6 Jan and Biden will have been confirmed as President.
  
  Now of course you already know this, but no doubt you will come upon with some far fetched theory as to why this won’t happen.
  
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  December 16, 2020 3:42pm
- MCos
  
  Short version
  November 7, 2020, Presidential election
  Biden won by a mile, suck on that.
  
  3 8
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  December 16, 2020 3:55pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Suck on a mile?
    
    7 2
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    December 16, 2020 5:41pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      spellcheck?
      
      5 2
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      December 16, 2020 5:42pm
      - Couchpotatoe
        
        Biden first, Daylight second
        
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        December 16, 2020 8:36pm
Swifty

Trev getting hammered:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300185297/live-speaker-trevor-mallard-to-face-select-committee-as-national-demands-his-resignation
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December 16, 2020 1:33pm
- Greg Ettridge
  
  The National MP’s gave it a good crack, Mr Mallard will have an uneasy Christmas break, his first day back as speaker on February 9 in 55 days time is not going to be one he will look forward to.
  This is a long way from finalized.
  A mans career has been trashed and he still has more legal avenues to seek more compensation.
  Made me laugh when the beak said $37,000 had been spent for the litigant by the government.
  More huge cost today, sticking Mr Mallard in an air uber, the costs to this will be enormous.
  He did show some contrition, but he clearly shows in his actions, he has stuffed up big time.
  
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  December 16, 2020 2:46pm
Batman

Congratulations to all those conspiracy theorists who have been pushing and swimming in the election fraud lies. This is where things end up:

https://abc13.com/mark-anthony-aguirre-former-houston-police-department-captain-arrested-aggravated-assault-liberty-center/8802235

“A former Houston Police Department Captain was arrested and charged for running a man off the road and pointing a gun at his head in an attempt to prove claims of a massive voter fraud scheme in Harris County, according to a news release from the Harris County’s DA’s office.”
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December 16, 2020 1:40pm
- RJ
  
  And yet I’ve never seen you post against the hundreds of millions in damage that Antifa and BLM have caused, the deaths and assault from those people. You’re a joke
  
  22 6
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  December 16, 2020 1:48pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    And neither has he condemned child slavery on African cocoa plantations. So selective in his outrage.
    
    5 16
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    December 16, 2020 2:11pm
    - RJ
      
      To be expected from you.
      
      15 6
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      December 16, 2020 2:34pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Yes, we must all be selective in our outrage.
        So criticising someone for only criticising X when you think they should criticise the unrelated thing Y or thing Z as well is an empty rhetorical gesture.
        But perhaps I should not be surprised at having to explain this to a Trumpkin.
        
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        December 16, 2020 3:23pm
RJ

Interesting interview with Sidney, *5 to 10% of the prison population in the USA are innocent*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKfK8jkSwPA&feature=emb_logo
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December 16, 2020 1:46pm
Tony Stuart

Trevor Mallard has just told the Governance and Administration select committee that he was aware he had made a mistake with his rape accusation within 24 hours of having commented on it, yet did NOTHING to correct his statement.

That is absolutely outrageous. The man in question could have been reinstated immediately and received an immediate apology, but because Mallard stayed silent, he has cost the taxpayer $333k so far, and almost certainly more when the employment proceedings confirmed to still be ongoing are resolved.

Mallard must go.
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December 16, 2020 2:00pm
- RJ
  
  At least the media are live streaming it and not trying to cover it up.
  
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  December 16, 2020 2:02pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It’s the putting right that counts.
  
  Mallard didn’t put things right.
  
  He used cover-up and bullying tactics and succeeded in destroying this man’s career and possibly health.
  
  Shame, shame, shame.
  
  How many of Mallard’s colleagues knew that he was wrong and did NOTHING to put things right?
  
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  December 16, 2020 2:05pm
  - RJ
    
    It’s sad but you’ve experienced that on this blog, be nice one day to see an apology to you for what has happened to you here, what has been allowed to happen to you her and not addressed.
    
    14 3
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    December 16, 2020 2:07pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I think the days for me receiving any form of apology disappeared a couple of years ago..
      
      Let’s just make sure no-one else new to this blog gets
      slam-dunked, coward-punched and placed in a position where she needs to discuss her menstrual status, the size of her breasts and the odour of her vagina.
      
      25 3
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      December 16, 2020 2:21pm
      - RJ
        
        Sadly, I think you are right
        
        15 3
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        December 16, 2020 2:33pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        Jesus WEPT! I somehow missed that Maggy. FWIW I’m sorry…
        
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        December 16, 2020 2:35pm
      - oldfella
        
        Bloody hell, Maggy. That’s appalling. Where were the mods – and DPF – while this kind of vile conduct was going down?
        
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        December 16, 2020 3:46pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        I’ve downticked for those shameless improper attacks on you. I’m sure almost everybody here appreciates you and your sensible contributions.
        
        16 3
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        December 16, 2020 3:53pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @oddfella
        
        There were no mods a couple of years back.
        
        I followed DPF’s rules… I thought other folks would also.
        I didn’t realise until it was way too late, that General Debate was a free-for -all.
        
        I made some complaints to DPF, but gave up when a number of my emails disappeared into a black hole.
        
        I can hack the personal abuse and harassment.. it’s just the stuff that implicates 3rd parties (whether they be colleagues, acquaintances), or has bearing on my surname (only 1 family in NZ with this surname) that I notify DPF about now.
        
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        December 16, 2020 4:35pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Right now, he is clarifying that, among other things, his apology was for his misunderstanding of what constitutes rape.
    
    For an MP of Mallard’s seniority to be admitting that he doesn’t really know what rape is in a legal sense is quite and indictment on him. It’s time he went.
    
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    December 16, 2020 2:24pm
    - cmm
      
      The dumb bastard just doesn’t know when to STFU.
      
      “My key regret is essentially a confusion of the law which led to this.”
      
      No the law is pretty clear. A five year old can understand it.
      
      Pretty much every day we have rapists before the court. Most criminals are sub-100 IQ. They understand it. We then convict them for rape and send them to jail.
      
      They don’t get an out because oops-I-find-the-whole-notion-of rape-very-confusing.
      
      So why the hell should we permit a law maker who has been snouting the trough for over 20 years as an MP (and no doubt some other trougher job before then) to get away with saying he’s confused about what rape is.
      
      Extreme bullshit from Mallard (and Tolley and anyone else that breaths a word in support of this fool).
      
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      December 16, 2020 2:59pm
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Mallard’s been an MP for 33 of the last 36 years, but hey, who’s counting?
        
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        December 16, 2020 3:27pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I can understand Mallard’s misunderstanding. He’s a school teacher and not a specialist lawyer. Working with a lot of law I have come to understand that frequently, in a legal context, what is written has an in depth definition which may be centuries old and based on case law or even common law (another technical expression.) We had an example recently with “Fraud” which is way different in a prosecution which is concerned with proof of intention to deceive, not the outcome of the alleged deceit.
      
      Mr Speaker Mallard has given a reasonable explanation. I think he has being caught in the Clause 2. Definitions…
      
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      December 16, 2020 4:06pm
      - cmm
        
        I see it does not take much to satisfy some people.
        
        We’re talking about the definition of rape, not some obscure bit of tort or arcane laws about it being Ok to shoot a Welshman with a long bow after midnight.
        
        Claire Trevett says it’s Ok, so it must be… That’s enough for some of us.
        
        I can’t imagine any other time in history when:
        * an MP — a law maker — can spend over 30 years on the job and not understand some basic definitions of very basic legal terms.
        * the media just rolls over and has their belly scratched.
        
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        December 16, 2020 5:39pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Yes, I’d say give him say 6 months notice.
  That should see him released the first weekend in May 😀
  
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  December 16, 2020 2:06pm
- Swifty
  
  Trevor hasn’t made a mistake, he has committed serious misconduct and which in any other role he would be dismissed.
  
  Here’s a question for New Zealanders. How many of you have employment agreements which agree to indemnify you for legal fees against any slander or libel you commit? That indemnify you for any settlements you have to make? That indemnify you fully, and pay the other party’s legal fees, even when you agree that you did in fact commit the slander or libel?
  
  Do we all have employment agreements so generous?
  
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  December 16, 2020 2:17pm
- Bullion
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300185297/live-speaker-trevor-mallard-says-he-almost-immediately-regretted-rape-comment
  
  Mallard says he almost immediately regretted describing the series of sexual assault complaints in a review of parliamentary culture as “rape” – but he didn’t apologise for the matter sooner as it soon became an employment issue and then a legal case.
  
  And it seems like a technicality on why there is a court case:
  
  “Trevor Mallard accepts that his understanding of the definition of rape at that time was incorrect and that the alleged conduct did not amount to rape (as that term is defined in the Crimes Act 1961) and that it was incorrect of him to suggest otherwise,” the statement said.
  
  And here is what it is defined as in the Crimes Act 1961:
  
  Sexual violation defined
  
  (1)Sexual violation is the act of a person who—
  (a)rapes another person; or
  (b)has unlawful sexual connection with another person.
  
  (2)Person A rapes person B if person A has sexual connection with person B, effected by the penetration of person B’s genitalia by person A’s penis,—
  (a)without person B’s consent to the connection; and
  (b)without believing on reasonable grounds that person B consents to the connection.
  
  (3)Person A has unlawful sexual connection with person B if person A has sexual connection with person B—
  (a)without person B’s consent to the connection; and
  (b)without believing on reasonable grounds that person B consents to the connection.
  
  (4)One person may be convicted of the sexual violation of another person at a time when they were married to each other.
  
  So rape is only between a male/female – not male/male, female/female, or female/male. Only penis to vagina, not penis to anus or finger/object to vagina/anus. So, I could see why someone may consider something to be “rape” in colloquial terms but not necessary the legal definition (which they seem to be very old fashioned).
  
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  December 16, 2020 3:43pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    The guy hugged a woman after a stressful search for a missing folder.
    He also said someone’s hair looked nice.
    He also gave someone a kiss on the cheek when she left his home after having afternoon tea.
    
    That’s it (from everything I’ve seen). That’s not a technicality.
    
    13 1
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    December 16, 2020 4:19pm
    - Bullion
      
      Here is the Debbie Francis review on bullying and harassment in parliament:
      https://www.parliament.nz/media/5739/independent-external-review-into-bullying-and-harassment-in-the-new-zealand-parliamentary-workplace-final-report.pdf
      
      There are reports of sexual assault. No details of what they entail are in this report.
      
      As several of the more serious allegations made here may be the subject of future investigations, and in order to protect the privacy of respondents, my commentary here is brief.Three of the alleged incidents disclosed to me in interviews were in my view extremely serious and some appeared to be part of a multi-year pattern of predatory behaviour.
      
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      December 17, 2020 10:48am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

When the vaccine comes, if you have white privilege donate it to someone less fortunate.
I think that is already the plan in NZ
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December 16, 2020 2:19pm
- fernglas
  
  I do believe I heard Hipkins say that the humanitarian in him wanted to see it go to other countries where the virus is worse, before us. Of course, thanks to his government’s policies, we are amongst the most vulnerable populations in the world, so it looks like we’re going to be locked away a good deal longer than most
  
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  December 16, 2020 4:17pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

I’ve had a number of people say the things we see today would never happen in our lifetime. Now that we are seeing them, I hear new excuses.
Not mentioning any names yet
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December 16, 2020 2:24pm
- RJ
  
  So many turn a blind eye, give excuses, do nothing
  
  All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing
  
  17 4
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  December 16, 2020 2:32pm
  - Pharmachick
    
    This. I had a very concerning discussion (email) with one of my MSc students today. We have a weekly non-science/medicine catch-up [in addition to work] and his reading list in the pandemic has turned towards some slightly darker historical material… Huxley, Orwell, Solzhenitsyn, Harry Potter. So he made a statement today:
    
    “Sadly, the only thing we learn from history is that we don’t learn anything from history. “
    
    My response to him (and to you RJ):
    
    I wouldn’t go that far. I do think that mistakes on a population-level tend to be repeated because: human nature. That’s why we have continuously seen the fall of Empires throughout human history. But history isn’t entirely bleak… individuals can learn, and to an extent; they can be gatekeepers for larger society, at least for a time. Think: Simon Wiesenthal, Frances Oldham Kelsey, Winston Churchill, Oscar Schindler, Nelson Mandela (latter part of career), Mikhail Gorbachev, Abraham Lincoln… the list is long, and distinguished.
    
    Just thought I’d share.
    
    15 1
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    December 16, 2020 3:37pm
Maggie Pie

And I’ll tell you someone else who really gets up my snoze…
that horrible lefty ‘Anderson Cooper’ on CNN.

Always going on about Trumpy “….not being a ‘self-made’ man. Been bankrupt 5 times. Owes million in taxes. If it wasn’t for his fathers money he’d have nothing”. BLAH BLAH BLAH…. all this from a guy that just inherited a hundred mill from his late mother, Gloria Vanderbilt!!

It’s like my partner sez, if it hadn’t been for his grandad leaving him the section at Tindalls, we’d probably be camping 🙁
16 6
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December 16, 2020 2:43pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Stay away from CNN, it is bad for your health
  
  14 5
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  December 16, 2020 2:52pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Yes I don’t normally go there Steve.
    Just happened to be watching a re-run of ‘1000lb Sisters’ on the Living channel, and fliked across while the ads were on.
    
    7 4
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    December 16, 2020 3:34pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

AMA now concedes that hydroxychloroquine is OK. What changed???
Now you know what Trump was meaning when he said “Drain the Swamp” Why do the left lie???
https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2020/12/15/the-ama-quietly-admits-they-lied-about-hydroxychloroquine/?
19 6
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December 16, 2020 3:24pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Reading that shit for amusement is bizarre enough, but taking it seriously?
  It’s not impossible, though, that Rush’s diseased mind might occasionally resort to factual reporting, but if you suspect that to be the case, please link to the AMA’s recommendations about hydroxychloroquine.
  
  6 16
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  December 16, 2020 3:36pm
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    Mikenmildagain, for you to write about somebody having a diseased mind is totally unacceptable.
    I have read a number of your posts on this blog and seriously believe that your time would be better spent over in the corner of the room, gobbling your boyfriend’s penis, rather than commenting on the best blog in the blogosphere.
    
    5 1
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    December 16, 2020 8:01pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Amazing isn’t it? There is some evidence that HCQ is helpful, so Trump uses it. The American Medical Association screams “Nooooo, it will kill you. You’re killing people, Mr President”. Then Trump get’s shown the door and voila! … HCQ is suddenly fine. Go ahead and use it.
  
  15 3
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  December 16, 2020 3:46pm
Bobba Fret

Mallard is going to cost the tax payer a lot more than $333k. Head of Parliamentary Services has confirmed that there is a separate claim against them. The accused only received $158k (covering legal costs) so IMO he deserves a lot more for losing his career and being slandered. I wonder if he is going them for $450k which is apparently what Mallard didn’t want to pay out.
Mallard needs to go. No other employee in any industry would survive this.
22 1
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December 16, 2020 3:27pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

This is what happens before Jan 5th. The media are fucking with you again.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2188883494769720/permalink/2893670434291019/
8 5
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December 16, 2020 3:30pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Seems Mike Pence is calling the shots on that day. Wonder why the Courts and SCOTUS shy away? Looking after their own arses, no matter which side they are on
  
  7 5
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  December 16, 2020 3:38pm
  - RJ
    
    Well from Lin, Sidney and a few others the judges hearing the cases, some have had death threats made against them and their families from the left
    
    And yes the legislators are the ones who select the president, and Mike Penske holds the power with what to do with votes cast from states with contested votes and signs of fraud.
    
    Stock up on your popcorn because the next few weeks will be explosive especially with what is about to be released.
    
    9 4
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    December 16, 2020 4:17pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      And yes the legislators are the ones who select the president, and Mike Penske holds the power with what to do with votes cast from states with contested votes and signs of fraud.
      
      So, you’ve just ignored my reply to you, at 3:36PM, above, and the accompanying links?
      
      What do you base your comment, reproduced here, on? Links, please.
      
      5 1
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      December 16, 2020 5:05pm
  - SB2
    
    “Wonder why the Courts and SCOTUS shy away? ”
    
    Do they just ?
    
    3 11
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    December 16, 2020 4:40pm
- RJ
  
  But the good part is all the information now coming out. Have heard the report due shortly on interference In the election will be shocking
  
  7 4
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  December 16, 2020 4:16pm
  - C J Southern
    
    *** Yawn ***
    
    More fake news/entertainment.
    
    5 6
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    December 16, 2020 5:34pm
  - C J Southern
    
    My prediction is that if anything materialises at all it’ll be havily biased and contain ridiculous assertions that have zero credibility and/or have already been debunked many many time that will – invariably – not stand up in court.
    
    Just like all the others.
    
    It truly has degenerated from being mildly entertaining to truly embarrassing.
    
    4 6
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    December 16, 2020 5:39pm
RJ

Timber

Top U.S. intelligence officials were so concerned heading into the 2016 election that the Russians were aware of and potentially manipulating Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton’s plans to smear Donald Trump as a Russian agent that they personally briefed President Barack Obama on the matter, newly declassified Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) documents show. CIA officials also requested that the FBI investigate Russian knowledge of the Clinton campaign’s collusion smear operation.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/06/breaking-dni-declassifies-handwritten-notes-from-john-brennan-2016-cia-referral-on-clinton-campaigns-collusion-operation/

More explosive releases to come
16 7
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December 16, 2020 4:18pm
- SB2
  
  Nothing like what the explosives Trump will face post inauguration ,
  
  https://time.com/5910879/trump-lawsuits/
  
  3 16
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  December 16, 2020 4:44pm
WaynelSexton

Trump will be President.
https://mobile.twitter.com/amuse/status/1338974909624709121
7 7
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December 16, 2020 4:38pm
- Steve Todd
  
  See my reply to RJ, at 3:36PM, above.
  
  2 7
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  December 16, 2020 5:12pm
  - WaynelSexton
    
    The Mississippi Incident of 1873, where the Mississippi electors did not certify that they voted by ballot, and one of the electors didn’t have his appointment signed by the Governor of Mississippi as required by state law. Nevertheless, the Mississippi electoral votes were counted.
    
    3 4
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    December 16, 2020 5:50pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      That was before the Electoral Count Act of 1887 was enacted. It means nothing today.
      
      4 3
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      December 16, 2020 7:52pm
      - WaynelSexton
        
        You’re back to Pence being able to throw certificates out.
        
        The Act says that the Congress shall act upon the certificates OPENED by the President of the Senate that purport to be certificates.
        
        3 2
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        December 16, 2020 8:27pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Checkmate, Steve- he has you there. If Pence doesn’t OPEN the certificates, he can make Trump president again. Or something.
        
        1 0
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        December 17, 2020 7:22am
      - Steve Todd
        
        Read the entire relevant section: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/3/15, particularly—
        
        “But if the two Houses shall disagree in respect of the counting of such votes, then, and in that case, the votes of the electors whose appointment shall have been certified by the executive of the State under the seal thereof, shall be counted.”
        
        At that point, the President of the Senate will set aside the votes given by the electors not certified by the executive of the State, i.e., the Governor.
        
        It’s over.
        
        1 0
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        December 17, 2020 7:34am
      - Steve Todd
        
        I don’t think so, Mike.
        
        As I pointed out on Tuesday (Electoral College votes Biden 306, Trump 232, at 8:24PM), the Twelfth Amendment states, inter alia, “[…];–the President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all [my bold] the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;–[…].”
        
        See, also, my 7:34AM response immediately above.
        
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        December 17, 2020 7:53am
Fletch

Newly unclassified memo – Joe Biden was briefed about Burisma corruption shortly before he demanded the firing of the prosecutor who was investigating the company (where his son Hunter worked). Am I surprised? No, I am not. And I bet no one is.

https://headlineusa.com/biden-warned-burisma-corruption/
13 6
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December 16, 2020 4:45pm
- SB2
  
  “And I bet no one is.”
  
  Only because it is an untrue conspiracy theory manufactured by Trump and Guliani.
  
  Like the ridiculous lap tap caper.,
  
  1 4
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  December 16, 2020 9:10pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Mallard’s debacle with the Parliamentary staffer and the rape accusation means that those responsible for incidents of serious sexual abuse at and around Parliament (as mentioned in the Francis Report) have slipped away under the radar.

https://www.parliament.nz/media/5739/independent-external-review-into-bullying-and-harassment-in-the-new-zealand-parliamentary-workplace-final-report.pdf
12 0
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December 16, 2020 5:03pm
- Ruahine
  
  That was what it was all about. Create a smokescreen. Change legislation to cover their own backside. Well Done Ardern and Mallard. We see you both for what you truly are. You can tell what a person is by their actions especially towards other people who do not have the means at their disposal to defend themselves. This is the foulest piece of bullying by people in so-called high places that I have seen since Muldoon and Clark times.
  
  16 0
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  December 16, 2020 5:22pm
  - GazzaW
    
    The problem for the dullard Mallard and Ardern is that they have been confronted by far smarter opponents who will niggle away and expand what is currently an embarassing sore on Labour’s arse into a very large suppurating ulcer. I refer of course to Bishop and Seymour ably assisted by Woodhouse. Ultimately Mallard will have to go and the question is when. If Ardern has any sense it will be before Christmas.
    
    7 0
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    December 16, 2020 8:17pm
Nostradamus

Scott Morrison shares family Christmas photo with daughters and wife

Heartless trolls have hijacked a family Christmas photo shared by Scott Morrison to attack the Australian prime minister about his climate change and refugee policies.

How unseasonal.

Mr Morrison uploaded the heartwarming picture with his two daughters, Abbey, 13, and Lily, 11, and wife Jenny to social media on Sunday. ‘From my family to yours, Merry Christmas and a Happier New Year,’ Mr Morrison wrote.

Inspirational!

‘Get stuffed Morrison. Hope you’re thinking of that poor Biloela family you’ve got locked up on Christmas island,’ wrote a third angered Australian.

‘All I want for Christmas is meaningful action on climate change, to know my children will have a liveable planet as they grow,’ one person wrote.

Hopefully someone gives these losers a copy of “How To Win Friends And Influence People” as a Christmas present.
14 3
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December 16, 2020 5:09pm
- SB2
  
  The pix of Scott Morrison and family strike me as rather gooey and syrupy.
  
  1 6
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  December 16, 2020 9:07pm
Fletch

The Sec of State in Georgia, Brad Raffensperger, is going to be honored by Democrats with their “Man of Courage” award and is switching parties to become a Democrat after January. No surprises there, either…
8 6
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December 16, 2020 5:15pm
Maggie Pie

The boring Americas Cup starts tomorrow apparently.
My partner just txt to say he’d be leaving early in the morning to get a good spot to anchor. Taking 6 other guys out on the boat for the day.
Said I’d be welcome to come if I wanted to. Yeah right. The only woman on board with 7 pissheads expecting me to hand round the finger-food all day.
11 7
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December 16, 2020 5:18pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Take the opportunity to change the locks at your house before he arrives back home with his friends who need a bed for the night.
  
  11 1
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  December 16, 2020 5:45pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I did txt him back to say what he could do…..but being under a warning from Bats eariler on, thort better than to repeat it here 😀
    
    9 2
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    December 16, 2020 5:49pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Get another boat
  
  9 3
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  December 16, 2020 5:48pm
- greybeard
  
  Maggie Pie: most of us have long since consigned your quite frankly unbelieveable pronouncements to the rubbish bin.
  You are certainly amusing at times, but maybe it is now time to just give it up.
  
  8 13
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  December 16, 2020 6:05pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I can only imagine what it must be like to be associated with an old moaning coot like you.
    Without doubt, one of life’s losers.
    Happy camping.
    
    12 7
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    December 16, 2020 6:23pm
Swifty

What the fuck is that supposed to mean Catherine Churchman?

“Catherine Churchman, a Victoria University lecturer in Asian studies, said the CCP was the “main organ” of governance and control in China, and having employees that were members posed a concern.

“It is not that unusual but I still don’t think it is good. The communist party is not just like another political party.

“Imagine if, for example, if there were a certain number of National Party members in a university and they have to have a National Party committee that reports upwards to the top of the party about everything that is going on in the university.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/123693190/leaked-chinese-communist-party-list-allegedly-shows-new-zealandconnected-party-members
11 1
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December 16, 2020 6:04pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Crikey..
Seven years for charges to be laid over Roast-busters’ sexual abuse of under-aged girls.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300185914/roast-busters-three-men-face-charges-over-alleged-sexual-offending
14 0
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December 16, 2020 6:41pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Weren’t these the same horrible creeps that Willie Jackson and John Tamihere came out and supported at the time?
  
  15 2
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  December 16, 2020 6:55pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep,
    and Tamihere boasts that he got a 6-figure payout from Mediawoks for taking part in a now deleted talkback show.
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/john-tamihere-on-roast-busters-front-bums-and-running-for-auckland-mayoralty/N5VX45A3TSORY5V5IBV2URZ5WA/
    
    13 1
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    December 16, 2020 7:09pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      I’m also think i recall reading somewhere that Poto Williams (the new Min of Police) saying she doubted ever being able to work with Willie Jackson because of his disgusting stance on this matter.
      Wonder where that’s at now?
      
      16 2
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      December 16, 2020 7:32pm
- Paul Marsden
  
  Wasn’t the father of one of the accused, a high ranking police officer (at the time)?
  
  4 0
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  December 16, 2020 8:24pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Well one of the kids involved with the Roastbusters had a father who was a Constable.
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/roast-busters-where-beriah-hales-and-joseph-parker-are-now/SKEHCZZZW5WMDNYJFQJWGIJGVU/
    
    4 0
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    December 16, 2020 10:39pm
Tony Stuart

Kudos to Heather du Pessis-Allan and Barry Soper, who continue to hold Trevor Mallard’s feet to the fire of media scrutiny. HDPA’s latest opinion-piece includes an accusation that Mallard misled a select committee this afternoon:

If Trevor Mallard was hoping that appearing before the select committee today was going to make things better for himself, he misjudged that horribly.

He has just made things a whole lot worse

It turns out $330,000 is not the end of the Mallard clean-up bill us taxpayers are paying. We are in the gun for more.

As we know, the $330,000 is for Mallard’s legal bills and an ex-gratia payment to the man he accused of rape

But the man might yet also be paid out by Parliamentary Services, his employer at the time of Mallard’s allegation

He’s taken a claim – perhaps a personal grievance for the circumstances under which his employment ended

Now already the taxpayer legal bill for dealing with THAT claim is $37,500. We don’t know if that’s the end of the legal costs there. So add that to the $330,000.

Then there could be a pay out as well. And the chances of that are high given that it is now in the public domain that Mallard has admitted to defaming the man. The man’s original claim was for $450,000, so this bill could be high.

Again, add that to the $330,000.

But what makes this worse, if that’s even possible, is that Mallard did not admit there was more money due when he was asked about it.

In my opinion, he misled the public with his answer.

He was asked by Chris Bishop if there was “any further money to be paid”, and Mallard answered “there is no further money to be paid”.

But then, just over a minute later, the chief executive of parliamentary services, Rafael Gonzalez-Montero admits “there is still a claim against the Parliamentary Service”.

Michael Woodhouse asks: “Is the committee now hearing that $330,000 is not necessarily the end of the matter in terms of cost to the taxpayer?”

Gonzalez-Montero answers “yes”.

So, not only has the speaker used our money to tidy up his mistakes, but he’s not been totally transparent about exactly how much money it’s costing us.

Mallard tried his hardest today to frame this as just a mistake, one that he is very sorry for and trying to make right, and tried to convince the public that he needs to stay in the job to finish his project of making parliament a safer place to work.

Well, he should then lead by example and leave the building, because he is consistently exhibiting the exact kind of behaviour he claims to want to clear out.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/opinion/heather-du-plessis-allan-trevor-mallard-has-made-things-worse/

This is about as serious as it gets for a Speaker. MP’s who mislead the House can be referred to the all-powerful Privileges Committee. But for the Speaker to have misled his peers, and the public, would make Mallard’s future as Speaker untenable.

He should do the decent thing, right now, and resign from the role.
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December 16, 2020 8:11pm
- Swifty
  
  KS, can you ever imagine Lockwood in this position?
  
  Good god Mallard has made a huge bloody mess of this. If he had only kept his damn mouth shut or, once opened, apologised fully, generously and immediately.
  
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  December 16, 2020 8:20pm
Nookin

I caught a bit of the questioning on the news. Mallard also said that he knew he got it wrong within 24 hours but did not apologise because there was an employment issue.
The defamation proceedings were issued in December 2019. Earlier this year there was a hearing over suppression of the man’s name. Mallard wanted the name published, ostensibly to help him prepare his defence. So, far from being apologetic in June this year, Mallard appears intent on causing even more anguish and humiliation to his prey.

How would publication of the name help his defence (assuming the reason was bona fide)? The logical reason would be that publicity might prompt people to come forward and say what a crud he (the prey) had been. In other words, they were going to drag him thru the mud. Nothing in the linked article suggests that Mallard acknowledge the error (if it was one) and the case was all about damages only. The battle was all on.

Labour is the champion of the Employment Relations Act replete with its obligations of good faith -candour, honesty etc.

Can it really be said that maligning someone, realising the fact immediately but putting him to the expense of defamation proceedings, and then trying to further humiliate him by plastering his name everywhere as a tactical move, shows any sign of good faith?

Grubby behaviour all round.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122213171/speaker-trevor-mallard-loses-suppression-argument-in-defamation-claim
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December 16, 2020 9:32pm
Maggy Wassilieff

18 months to apologise…and now Trevor admits that he knows his bullying has distracted Parliament from sorting out the crap that other folks have had to put up with working for and dealing with abusers.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/12/speaker-trevor-mallard-reveals-he-knew-he-made-mistake-within-24-hours-of-making-false-accusation.html

It was also an apology for creating a distraction from the most serious of issues – people who came forward about sexual assault at Parliament.

“My error has diverted attention away from their stories,” Mallard said.

Those stories included 14 allegations of sexual assault uncovered in the Debbie Francis Review into culture at Parliament unveiled in May 2019.

And that is the calibre of the man that our PM relies on for deflection/distraction and cover-up.
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December 16, 2020 9:34pm
- sooty
  
  RESIGN!
  
  7 0
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  December 16, 2020 10:01pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    #MallardMustGo
    
    5 0
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    December 16, 2020 10:50pm

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