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July 20, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 20 July 2021

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General Debate

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Tony Stuart

Newshub tries a beat-up against the National Party:

Two complaints about a National Party ad attacking Labour’s clean car scheme have not been upheld, but New Zealand’s ad watchdog said a “hyperbolic example” was used for “political effect”.

The ad concerns the Government’s recently announced clean car package, where discounts of up to $8000 will be given for newly imported electric and hybrid vehicles, while high-emissions vehicles will attract fees of up to $5000.

The National Party ad shows a small, two-door red convertible with a large hay bale sitting on top. It seems to suggest farmers would be forced to use small electric vehicles instead of the likes of utes to carry out their work, as a consequence of the scheme.

One of the complaints about the ad to the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) expressed concern about farmers being painted as lacking “basic critical thinking skills” by doing anything to get a payout from the Government.

“I believe to most casual readers this will come off to say that farmers will pass over suitable petrol or diesel models in favour of an unsuitable vehicle for the sake of receiving the rebate on their purchase – even if it means that they will lose functionality in doing so. I personally think this is insulting to Kiwi farmers,” the complaint reads.

“It also ignores upcoming electric utility vehicles and freight vehicles which will be unaffected by the levy imposed under this policy, and portrays electric vehicles as small and impractical, and serves to hinder efforts to reduce New Zealand’s transport emissions as a whole.”

The ASA did not uphold the complaints about the ad, but provided some candid commentary about it, suggesting the graphic was a bit over the top.

The watchdog said the ad “was the National Party criticising the Labour Party’s clean car package by using a hyperbolic example of a ridiculous consequence of the tax for political effect”.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/07/advertising-standards-authority-s-stinging-description-of-national-party-dig-at-labour-s-clean-car-scheme.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

So what’s that actual story here? That political parties frequently use hyperbole to criticise their opponents? That political decisions can have “ridiculous consequences”? Or that two Karens got their knickers in a knot over a humourous portrayal of a Labour policy?

One thing is crystal-clear. The complaints were NOT upheld, which pretty much renders the story useless. Imagine Newshub’s vitriol if the complaint had been upheld! And the media wonders why punters perceive that the media is biased…
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December 20, 2019 8:26am
- Simon
  
  Electric cars eh? So heavily gubermint subsidized means they will not work out. This is how it works. If electric cars were the future they wouldnt need gubermint subsidy. The private sector would rush to finance the new technology. But private sector have already done the numbers etc. They dont work.
  
  Elon Musk isnt running an electric car company he is running a gubermint subsidy business. When other car companies say they will switch to electric its because of gubermint hand outs. Simples.
  
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  July 20, 2021 8:35am
  - Batman
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Tesla is no longer eligible for US Govt subsidies as they’ve sold too many vehicles.
    
    The remaining manufacturers are doing it without subsidy because the market wants them.
    
    It’s amazing how wrong you manage to be in one comment. Simple.
    
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    July 20, 2021 8:46am
    - Simon
      
      Lol – the market wants them. What a lot of garbage. You sound exactly like Labo.
      
      You are not even up with current events in NZ with the recent subsides for electric cars and the tax burden on petrol. The market.
      
      Batman thinks all internationally gubermint subsides have ended for electric cars as of right now and the “market” has taken over. You belong in Labo.
      
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      July 20, 2021 8:58am
      - Don Beckett
        
        “. You sound exactly like Labo.”
        
        That’s because he is a Labour lackey – you’ll notice he criticizes anything that tends to be of the right, and supports all that is of the left. 😉
        
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        July 20, 2021 10:15am
      - igm
        
        Does that imbecile work for Stuff? He spews forth more vile left-wing garbage than Little Willie and Ardern.
        
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        July 20, 2021 11:35am
      - kloyd0306
        
        Yet DPF seems unconcerned that Batman continues as both moderator and left-wing, anti National commentator.
        Unbelievable yet true.
        Any others posters have dual roles?
        
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        July 20, 2021 11:39pm
    - Inandout
      
      Bat, Tesla is overpriced and not well assembled, hence the term ‘Tesla gap’ in body panels. Like BWW they hike the new car prices and the wealthy buy them, and when they trade them in for a new model some mug is left with the many problems.
      
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      July 20, 2021 9:01am
      - Max Howler
        
        to mis-quote Peter Boyle, it really does cost alot of money to be rich! im guessing you meant BMW (or Break My Wallet at Continential cars) and it certainly pays not to be the mug
        
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        July 20, 2021 2:15pm
    - Greg Ettridge
      
      EV drivers are no longer getting the subsidy in NZ, international dealers are so grateful to the incompetence of this government.
      They just keep on giving.
      The internationals appear to be far smarter than the Government Shills dreaming up schemes that can make taxpayers money disappear quicker than flash Gordon.
      Go figure.
      
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      July 20, 2021 9:12am
    - Bevan
      
      You just gonna ignore the billions in subsidies Tesla has already received?
      
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      July 20, 2021 9:13am
      - Batman
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Are you going to pretend to not have any reading comprehension?
        
        I said “no longer eligible” which very much implies it has received subsidies previously.
        
        And yet, Tesla hasn’t suddenly gone out of business.
        
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        July 20, 2021 9:36am
      - Bevan
        
        LOL, you basically ignore the fact Tesla received billions to set up the company and production lines and your like – so what, they don’t receive them any more… Tesla wouldn’t be in business NOW if it wasn’t for the billions they have received, and the EVs they produce wouldn’t be the cost they are NOW is it wasn’t for them billions.
        
        BTW, aren’t you a mod? And straight for the personal insult… such a role model.
        
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        July 20, 2021 12:07pm
      - Batman
        
        Oh Bevan, don’t think whipping out the “you’re a Mod” card gets you any soft treatment.
        
        No I’m not ignoring them, I was simply dealing with the presented fact that Tesla is currently receiving subsidies to make cars. Which depending on which definition you use, is either not true or mostly not true.
        
        You’re bending the original point to suit yourself, so have fun with that.
        
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        July 20, 2021 1:36pm
      - Bevan
        
        Seriously dude, you been shown where you are wrong by multiple people in this conversation. You have even admitted you have selectively used data to suit your position. Most people would have stopped digging the hole deeper, but go right ahead…
        
        And my point about you being a mod was to point out your hypocrisy, nothing more, nothing less.
        
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        July 20, 2021 3:57pm
      - Batman
        
        Tesla no longer receives the main federal subsidies. That was my point. No more or less. The rest of it is outside of what I was talking about.
        
        As for hypocrisy… Your opinion is your opinion.
        
        Cheers.
        
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        July 20, 2021 4:07pm
    - David George
      
      Misleading Batman.
      US EV buyers are still subsidised (to varying degrees) by the state regardless of whether the manufacturer is directly subsidised by central government. California run a rebate scheme similar in size and nature to “ours”.
      
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      July 20, 2021 9:49am
      - Batman
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        You know I did consider state subsidies etc, but for the purposes of simplicity and keeping it to main federal/central government policy, I decided to leave it out.
        
        Consumers receiving subsidies is also a different incentive than manufacturers getting R&D funding credits and such.
        
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        July 20, 2021 9:52am
      - David George
        
        To clarify:
        What you are referring to Batman is the Federal Electric Vehicle Tax Credit.
        US EV buyers are still subsidised (to varying degrees) by the state regardless of whether the particular manufacturer still qualifies for the FEVTC from central government. These are are on top of, and not to be confused with, the FEVTC.
        
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        July 20, 2021 9:57am
      - Pharmachick
        
        @Batman R&D funding credits in countries such as the US where they exist, have been proven to enhance innovation and accelerate knowledge translation. It doesn’t mean they cannot be ripped off by very shrewd operators – love him or hate him Mr Musk is a very shrewd man.
        
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        July 20, 2021 1:50pm
    - slightlyrighty
      
      2 things…
      
      1. If the markets wants these cars, then why the hell do they need a subsidy?
      
      2. Tesla make a loss on each car they sell. Their balance sheet comes from carbon offsets from other manufacturers.
      
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      July 20, 2021 10:27am
      - Batman
        
        1. To speed up market adoption and development. And because politicians love to do that stuff as it creates “high tech” jobs they can claim they’re creating.
        
        2. Well money is money. Good on them for finding a new way to make their business work in the short to medium term.
        
        Can’t believe I’m defending Elon Musk and Tesla, I don’t even like his cars or him ??
        
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        July 20, 2021 1:40pm
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Batman, Tesla made its first profit (for 18 years) in 2020. And it wasn’t from selling cars. It came from regulatory credits, $1.6bn USD of them to be precise. And their profit was $721m USD. So car sales lost them money. And FYI, those credits are reducing. This is a scenario being played out with all EV manufacturers.
      
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      July 20, 2021 10:51am
      - Batman
        
        Yeah which i have addressed above.
        
        Profit is profit. Even if only for the short to medium term until the others sort themselves out.
        
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        July 20, 2021 1:42pm
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        Batman, you didn’t address regulatory credits. You wrote about subsidies. Regulatory credits are a different beast and will go the same way as subsidies. So while Tesla might be selling more cars, they are NOT making any profit from selling them. There will come a time when shareholders say what the bloody hell.
        
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        July 20, 2021 5:41pm
  - Paulus
    
    Will households have to reduce their electricity power usage as there will not be enough electricity to power all these wonderful (expensive) cars as well and they will have priority..
    Simply where will all this new electricity come from – China perhaps.
    
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    July 20, 2021 9:06am
    - alloytoo
      
      Never mind the power, what about the grid, the infrastructure would (assuming we found the magic power fairy) have to be upgraded
      
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      July 20, 2021 12:57pm
    - I remember when
      
      The new electricity will come from solar power – all recharging EVs will be in daylight hours.
      
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      July 20, 2021 1:28pm
  - BananaLlama
    
    Alot of his ideas are subsidised by governments and when the funding runs out they go bust like that daft Hyperloop scam. Take a look at Starlink and tell me how that is profitable because it looks like another one of his scams.
    Anyway he seems to have excellent PR and can get away with it.
    
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    July 20, 2021 9:16am
    - Batman
      
      Oh yeah if I had my way I would shoot starlink out of the sky at the first opportunity. It would make a lovely shooting star event for families!
      
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      July 20, 2021 1:43pm
      - 70andstilllearning
        
        Course you would destroy it Batboy. The risk it poses for the sheeple of NZ being able to access news etc cheaply that your masters can’t control and monitor is terrifying to your masters.
        
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        July 20, 2021 2:06pm
- graham
  
  My word. You mean that sometimes, what you see on an ad *may* be slightly exaggerated?
  
  I’m shocked. SHOCKED, I tell you. I had no idea …
  
  I mean, I was sure that those people ordering Maccas and asking “What’s in the beef patties” REALLY ACTUALLY got magically transported to a farm in their car by teleportation or something.
  
  And the Sky Broadband ad? You mean those people AREN’T playing their electric guitars on top of some remote snow-covered mountain?
  
  Goodness me.
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:02am
- Benedict Yu
  
  ““It also ignores upcoming electric utility vehicles and freight vehicles….”
  
  There are no prospective electric utes in prospect for commercial release. There are some hybrids in development. The PM did not know the difference and got smacked down by Toyota New Zealand.
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:20am
  - Ruawai
    
    And the advertising watchdog being political in their comments, what a surprise!!
    
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    July 20, 2021 9:29am
    - Batman
      
      People have very much misunderstood what the ASA was saying.
      
      It wasn’t being political, it was using the terminology which defines the carve outs for political advertising and promotion.
      
      It’s all down to the naive little Discovery channel reporter who mangled the decision into that silly Newshub piece having an unjustified crack at National.
      
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      July 20, 2021 9:43am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Are you John Pakes in disguise?
        
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        July 20, 2021 6:35pm
  - slernz
    
    The Rivian R1T truck (ute) is scheduled for release in January 2022. The cheapest option is $US67,500! I don’t know whether they will be available here. Probably not?
    
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    July 20, 2021 11:37am
- tf78
  
  Helen Clark’s “Diddums” comment comes to mind.
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:23am
- Stellaboxer
  
  A media that upholds it’s traditional duties of holding power to account and seeking truth is never more necessary than in the present situation. Alas the NZ media with a few exceptions has completely failed in its role. This period will be looked back on I believe as a time of deep shame for this industry a time when a radical government with a super majority was aided and abetted by a sycophantic and largely ideologically aligned mob who abandoned their journalistic duties if of course they ever knew what they were in the first place. My fear is that we have a media largely staffed with left wing activists supporting a radical left wing government made up of activists. The separation is becoming more and more blurred. IMHO
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:54am
  - Harriet
    
    Dear leader is being propped up by mongrels, media and the munted.
    
    ACT should play devil’s advocate and call them all out, meaning the more civil and thoughtful Labour voters will abandon Labour for National. Afterall – if farmers can vote for Labour……
    
    Journalism has become a degree in being a kiwi arsehole. 😎
    
    btw – cheers for ‘comment of the month’ on the hate speech thread.
    
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    July 20, 2021 12:07pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Agree Stellaboxer. It would appear that our current bunch of Labour pollies and their Journalist mates were all in the same debating teams and student union when at University. Peas in a pod if you like.
    If is also of concern to me that those Journalists who can’t make it in the Journalistic World end up as ministers in a Labour Govt. Faafoi is one such pollie.
    
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    July 20, 2021 1:13pm
- oldgolfer
  
  Pricks simply can’t help themselves; hard-wired to condemn right.
  
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  July 20, 2021 10:16am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  55M lets you do amazing things Tony. If you give me even 5M, I will provide proof that you are Jesus Christ.
  
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  July 20, 2021 11:07am
- Sacha
  
  I thought the ad was a joke –
  
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  July 20, 2021 11:14am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    It was. However some people don’t have a sense of humour when the joke’s on the Labour Party.
    
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    July 20, 2021 12:12pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  Obviously a couple of Labour staffers were told to file complaints with the advertising board
  
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  July 20, 2021 11:30am
- I remember when
  
  ASA state that satire is ‘hyperbolic.’
  
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  July 20, 2021 12:16pm
  - Batman
    
    Exactly. Because hyperbolic language is permitted for comedic or political effect.
    
    They weren’t calling the ad hyperbolic in a negative way.
    
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    July 20, 2021 1:46pm
- redflagged
  
  “The watchdog said the ad “was the National Party criticising the Labour Party’s clean car package by using a hyperbolic example of a ridiculous consequence of the tax for political effect”.”
  
  >>> So Satire?
  
  Good grief.
  
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  July 20, 2021 1:44pm
Happychappy

It Looks like our media have excepted the job of convincing New Zealander’s that the hate laws this Labour Government want to pass have been misunderstood and NZRS Media Watch are leading the charge.
Hate Speech Laws translated from legalese: what you need to know.
New hate speech law proposals from the Government are a bit confusing and some debate so far seems to have muddied the waters, reducing something that began as a effort to combat racism, terrorism and hatred to name calling taunts by politicians.
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Justice Minister Kris Faafoi contradicted each other about what the proposals said and Ardern has admitted the Government could have been clearing its communications.
https://amp.rnz.co.nz/article/f33221b5-310e-49cc-9d2e-edc82d4fb4ae
They have set out six points in the rest of this article to try and convince the public, but the point that is most important is not even suggested with that being why would you even attempt to divide New Zealander’s when you know this law will do exactly that.
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July 20, 2021 8:00am
- Yvette
  
  Happychappy, the article you link to mentions –
  Laws – start as a policy with a firm idea and direction from the people who want to make it happen, then they get drafted into a bill to go through Parliament.
  These proposals are nowhere near that point. They have not yet been before the Parliamentary Counsel Office (PCO), which specialises in drafting laws and has a focus on specific wording.
  The PCO’s job is to review the policy being proposed, ask tricky legal questions and get the wording just right to mould the policy into a bill to be presented to Parliament so it can be considered and go through the parliamentary process.
  
  – and ends with –
  Perhaps tellingly … there has been “no decision about what legal definitions or drafting should be included in legislation”, and the ministry’s redacted regulatory impact statement says consultation “can also lead to better understanding of the proposals and their objectives”.
  
  And that raises the question of whether having such a debate, without a full set of ground rules, will just further muddy the waters on an important but already divisive topic.
  
  So like the “national conversation” that saw the demise of Capital Gains Tax – with the Government not actually presenting any real proposals to discuss, so Ardern threw it out of the cot, for as long as she is Prime Minister – this conversation suffers the same lack of any detailed definition from Government of what is even being “talked about”.
  So far it deserves exactly the same demise.
  
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  July 20, 2021 8:40am
- Paulus
  
  They don’t care they have an overall majority in the Parliament.
  QED
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:08am
CaptainCompromise

I put this in the previous thread but I think it’s worthy of discussion here. Time for someone to sue the govt for bill of rights act violation.

They prevented the free movement of citizens of New Zealand by making them unable to return unless they self isolate. That might be justifiable in a free and democratic society because of the perceived risk of Covid. Then they said to some people you can’t come back unless you pay, in effect saying you can’t leave. Questionably legal.

Now we’re in a position where people legally entitled to return are being prevented, not for any justifiable purpose, but because the government can’t be arsed to manage their system or be a little flexible. 40% of MIQ beds are free and they are still denying entry. That is not a reasonable justification for a restriction on human rights compatible with a free and democratic society.
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July 20, 2021 8:01am
- CAKE FACE1
  
  Alas, the problem is that our Courts are a joke.
  
  The Courts correctly found that [Deleted – Mod] Bloomfield and Jacinda put New Zealand into an illegal lockdown.
  
  I was expecting severe recriminations and repercussions. The future reputation of the Courts demanded action, or risk never being taken seriously again.
  
  Instead, the Courts made a big joke of it all, effectively laughing about government of the land instituting an illegal lockdown. I was shocked. It was behaviour you would expect from Courts in a banana republic.
  
  Still, I think that you’re correct. It would be great if someone at least tried to take on these clowns.
  
  “Welcome back to the fight. This time I know our side will win.” (Victor Laszlo, Casablanca)
  
  [Mod – lay off the abuse please]
  
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  July 20, 2021 8:23am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The govt is above the Courts who have no jurisdiction to impose sanctions on the govt. They can rule on the interpretation of law but not the law makers.
    
    We have a big hole in calling a govt to account. That’s really showing with this rogue one. They have feelings, idea and hoopla that effects media bribes and adulation, but that’s not Government. Where’s the houses?
    
    A three year wait ejection seat is not quick enough. Too much damage, even through inactivity, can occur. It’s even worse when hidden policies and plans are being put in place in the background which would not have been acceptable to the people at the ballot box.
    
    The govt does not have a mandate to do as it pleases. There is historical validity for that. Sovereignty resides in Parliament as a whole not in the captains calls. A mechanism of correction is sorely needed.
    
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    July 20, 2021 9:15am
    - Flossie
      
      Makes me certain I will not vote to change to four year terms!
      
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      July 20, 2021 9:55am
      - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
        
        Judith aunty agreed with Cindy that 4 year term is required. Between Labour, National and the toxic Greens they have 75% majority to implement the change without the mandate from the people.
        
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        July 20, 2021 11:10am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Three years is far too long at present to entrust these amateur wannabe commies with our future.
        MMP was designed to cause political mayhem so allies could keep watch.
        The demand for “representation” blinded commonsense.
        
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        July 20, 2021 6:13pm
  - Southtop2
    
    With no constitution this will continually happen. We can change our voting system, put in place a GG with perceived neutrality but the politicians in charge will do want they want, maybe apologise if caught and definitely change the after so they are retrospectively protected.
    We need a constitution, an overarching document.
    
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    July 20, 2021 9:15am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Any further constitution needs enforceable penal provisions against rogue govts or MP’s. That should extend past retirement. A duty of care is not optional.
      
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      July 20, 2021 6:16pm
- Master Mariner
  
  Yes, Fully agree.
  They are in breach of a few conventions which they have ratified,
  These are the ones that have been breached regarding NZ Seafarers,
  
  https://www.ilo.org/global/standards/maritime-labour-convention/lang–en/index.htm
  https://www.imo.org/en/MediaCentre/PressBriefings/pages/44-seafarers-UNGA-resolution.aspx
  https://fyi.org.nz/request/14510-miq-voucher-for-nz-seafarers-working-overseas
  https://fyi.org.nz/request/14199-miq-voucher-for-nz-seafarers-working-overseas#incoming-57455
  
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  July 20, 2021 8:23am
- Ludvyk
  
  Yes, long letter I know to OIA as a full frontall attack on the MIQ failure follows
  Ludvyk Jahn [email protected] july 21
  OIA people OIA Questions to Ministry of Business and Innovation
  Failure of the MIQ system, and discrimination against New Zealand citizens
  Question1. Does the managed isolation system give any preference at any level to New Zealanders over say investors or travellers from the Ukraine or fake or real Indian brides.
  Reason The allocation system operated by those that can use it, including some professionals, clearly discriminates by lack of recognition of New Zealander citizens and so against New Zealand citizens, This default and discrimination unless clearly shown wrong will form the basis of various allegations to the worthless Human Rights commission, but interested and responsive overseas news publications.
  Question 2. On the evidential basis that New Zealand citizens are discriminated against by having to compete with non citizens and everyone and anyone, do Emergency applications which satisfy the existing but insufficient criteria gain any preference over other Nationals or those say with Residency or other Visa.
  Reason There is evidence that New Zealanders with serious medical conditions or legal and/or financial difficulty are discriminated against by an allocation system which shows no preference to New Zealanders, In other words the allegation is that New Zealand is no longer a country for New Zealanders at this very sharp edge. This default and discrimination unless shown wrong will form the basis of various allegations to overseas news publications, which are interested in the allegations.
  Question 3. On the matter of fact basis that New Zealand citizens are discriminated against within normal Quarantine , and because the emergency allocation is determined on a personal basis by Officers, does the MIQ system allow for a home stay alone to those citizens now overseas who afflicted with serious or threatening health conditions and/or facing prosecution and jail for overstaying.
  Reason There is no evidence that New Zealanders with serious medical conditions or legal difficulty are considered as a must return and save category. If we have no standing it is reasonable to say that being a New Zealander means nothing.
  The incompetency of the MIQ system allows for aloof high handed dismissal on a preferential and personal basis; the very tenets of the tyrannical countries which adopted Communism a century ago,
  Question 4. Can the system be changed so that the lives of New Zealand citizens who give their word of health or legal difficulty, can in the first case, on our own honour be respected, that our return to New Zealand can be guaranteed, that is guaranteed; and that this right to return home, can not be summarily
  dismissed, by aloof and personal assessments of MBIE officers
  Reason . In New Zealand and because the Quarantine system is self evidently failing there are endangered people, and as an adjunct often financial deficiency occurs, further exacerbating the peril.. The right to return home and live in one’s own country is a fundamental right and the Ministry will meet international scorn if it continues to refuse this right,
  Question 5 Will the Ministry of Business Innovation introduce a valid reason for emergency allocation being as a combination of Health, and Financial issues. or Legal and associated financial issues.
  Reason It is well known other than by the Dodo bird NZBIE that financial collapse can and does lead to collapsing health and an emergency situation. The Ministry therefore must include combined situations as a valid reason for emergency return. Our default situation is that you will not, and this will become an issue for the Human Rights commission [ itself a farcical Dodo] and the reports to interested overseas journals and news outlets.
  Question 6, Does the Ministry of Business recognize that the PCR test is known to be meaningless.
  Reason The PCR test is meaningless, always was, and that fact is even recognized by WHO and any Medical practitioner who has any wit or time to actually read medicine, virology or immunology..
  Question 7 What is the MBIE doing to alleviate the fact that it is completely impossible to achieve a quarantine allocation at any time until the end of the shown schedule [ November ] as of today and prior to today 16 July 2021
  Reason I have recordings of the unavailability of quarantine going back several months. It is apparent after writing to authorities that you do not care about New Zealand citizens in need, or , or even critical situations.
  Your letters replying to citizens are pro forma defensive and self serving. Some people have had enough and are making or considering preparations to enter New Zealand to safe landing areas outside the formal borders. These people will arrive with all the health precautions possible including the meaningless and absurd PCR test certificates. Therefore this is not a step which will endanger New Zealanders..
  The International Press following will certainly see and make obvious that New Zealanders have no standing as of now, in our own country.
  Previously New Zealanders in difficulty from your fail MIQ system have been entering in a two step process via Australian quarantine to avoid the incompetent MIQ NZ lock out system.
  We have had enough.
  This letter will form part of a broader series of public articles I have an interview with Australian Sky news, and others scheduled for next month.
  Your pro forma replies or any consideration or improvements will be faithfully represented .
  Date of this enquiry 16 july 2021 // Copy to suggestion MIQFull reply expected by 07 August
  Sincerely Ludvyk Jahn
  
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  July 20, 2021 8:51am
- Master Mariner
  
  Unfair MIQ booking system could be breaching law, says professor
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/unfair-miq-booking-system-could-be-breaching-law-says-professor/3BJXHDUTN5RSQ5CQUN4S56OIRA/
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:54am
CAKE FACE1

Below a quote from a flick I like called Network. I changed a few works, to make it relevant to little Aotearoa! RIP Mr Sherry:

“Philip James Sherry died Sunday! Philip James Sherry was once main broadcaster of TVNZ One and he died Sunday morning following a short illness, and woe is us, we’re in a lot of trouble!

So, a rich little man with white hair died. What does that got to do with the price of rice, right? And why is that woe to us? Because you people and five million other Aotearoans are listening to me right now. Because less than three percent of you people read books! Because less than fifteen percent of you read newspapers! Because the only truth you know is what you get over this tube! Right now, there is a whole, an entire generation that never knew anything that didn’t come out of this tube! This tube is the Gospel, the ultimate revelation! This tube can make or break Presidents, Popes, Prime Ministers! This tube is the most awesome goddamn force in the whole godless world! And woe is us if it ever falls into the hands of the wrong people, and that’s why woe is us that Philip James Sherry died!

Because this country is now in the hands of Jack Tame, boy child and honking goose. And when the government completely controls the most awesome goddamn propaganda force in the whole godless world, who knows what shit will be peddled for truth on this network?! So, you listen to me. Listen to me! Television is not the truth. Television’s a goddamned amusement park! Television is a circus, a carnival, a traveling troupe of acrobats, storytellers, dancers, singers, jugglers, sideshow freaks, lion tamers, and football players. We’re in the boredom-killing business! So if you want the truth, go to God! Go to your gurus! Go to yourselves! Because that’s the only place you’re ever gonna find any real truth! But man, you’re never gonna get any truth from us. We’ll tell you anything you wanna hear. We lie like hell. We’ll tell you that, uh, Kojak always gets the killer, and that nobody ever gets cancer at Archie Bunker’s house. And no matter how much trouble the hero is in, don’t worry, just look at your watch, at the end of the hour he’s gonna win. We’ll tell you any shit you want to hear. We deal in illusions, man! None of it is true! But you people sit there day after day, night after night, all ages, colours, creeds. We’re all you know! You’re beginning to believe the illusions we’re spinning here! You’re beginning to think that the tube is reality and that your own lives are unreal! You do whatever the tube tells you, you dress like the tube, you eat like the tube, you raise your children like the tube. You even think like the tube.

This is mass madness, you maniacs! In God’s name, you people are the real thing! We are the illusion! So turn off your television sets! Turn them off now! Turn them off right now! Turn them off and leave them off! Turn them off right in the middle of this sentence I am speaking to you now! Turn them off!”
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July 20, 2021 8:06am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  What an idiot!
  
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  July 20, 2021 8:14am
- Maggie Pie
  
  As I heard my partner say recently….
  
  It’s easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.
  
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  July 20, 2021 8:24am
  - Biscuit
    
    Agreed, Maggie.
    
    Me and the lass I share a cot with chuckle each time we see a TV interview with some sad soul who has fallen victim to a scam.
    
    We have a bet on the amount of time that will elapse before that sad soul utters ‘I’m only speaking out now becusae I don’t want others to fall foul of this scam.’
    
    All said most earnestly but with not a hint of realisation/recongnition that – thankfully – the majority of the public out there aren’t so dumb as to send money to dodgy folk to begin with…
    
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    July 20, 2021 8:38am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      What gets me is people who give money to people who they meet on dating websites. My criteria were strict. Run at any sign of no money, Labour voter, Green voter, anti vaxxer, homeopathy user, prius owner… It worked pretty well.
      
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      July 20, 2021 9:15am
      - Biscuit
        
        Agreed, Benedict.
        
        Thousands of folk out there you can hook up with no money needs…
        
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        July 20, 2021 9:45am
      - Southtop2
        
        Add Leaf driver and and leaf only eater
        
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        July 20, 2021 10:26am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Sorry I stopped reading that half way through. Totally lost me.
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:01am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    So far? You must be a glutton for punishment
    
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    July 20, 2021 9:35am
  - Jack5
    
    The bit I enjoy was Jack Tame as a honking goose.
    
    Apart from that, Cake Face1 wants to close the obsolescent news medium, television.
    
    It’s not compulsory, Cakie.
    
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    July 20, 2021 9:36am
KevO'Brien

Cheerful warning. Doctors follow the crowd and many are quite autocratic. Who’s on watch except us sensitive sceptic researchers?
Too many reports of too much nuisance post vaccination. It’s like being in a pen of cattle at a rail siding. We need time to prove any vaccination.
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2021/07/19/covid-cases-are-surging-in-the-most-vaxxed-countries-not-in-the-least-vaxxed/
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July 20, 2021 8:19am
- Ludvyk
  
  Reference [ http://www.Fleming method.com]
  Doctor Fleming has looked at the figures for Covid cases in Vaccinated individuals. In each case there is no significant difference between the vaccinated group and the control group [ unvaccinated ] This is to May 2021 and includes, Moderna; Pfizer, Jannsen, AstraZenica.
  In other words there is no statistical benefit to injection , at least in these early days, and there are many deaths and injuries. The spike protein which forms the basis if the mRNA was patented in US labs in the previous ten years.
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:01am
  - Happy1
    
    Pharmachick, if you have time could you give a tutorial on how the vaccine works. The numbers of vaccinated testing positive seems high. Is this normal across all diseases. Do vaccines have virus killers in the bloodstream or is it the ability to ramp up the supply of killers before things get problematic that works. Meanwhile, until the body deals with the incursion people test positive. Keen to hear your views.
    
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    July 20, 2021 10:07am
    - Pharmachick
      
      Briefly (I am at work, be done soon), the stats in US are that 97.5% of new COVID cases are unvaxxed as are 99.5% of hospital cases. Vaccines appear to prevent severe illness for COVID, but not outright infection. Remember that ~50% of US citizens eligible (i.e. 12 or greater) have not had either any doses or second doses.
      
      Vaccines are designed to prime the immune system to fight off the virus, the person’s own antibodies are the neutralizers (and a few other cells such as neutrophils, macrophages etc mop up the virus, break it down and excrete it) not the vaccine itself.
      
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      July 20, 2021 11:16am
- JackRabbit
  
  And these stats and the sheer number of side effects, the bulk of which are being under reported, have not escaped the watchful eye of experienced physicians and researchers in the NZ medical profession.
  
  But with gag orders in place i.e speak out against the narrative and you risk being struck off, only a small percentage of these professionals are willing to say anything.
  
  [1] When even the inventor of the mRNA vaccine method has serious doubts about its safety, and:
  
  [2] Moderna are on record saying it is possible, however unlikely, for the mRNA to impact on DNA, but only in people with compromised immune systems, (So if you are in dodgy health the vaccine could finish you off ! ) and:
  
  [3] The complete lack of testing (5 years) before release, and:
  
  [4] The electrostatic signature of Covid-19 which is how it gains quick access to the cells in the lungs, and shuts down the CO2 / Os exchange. This high electrostatic charge is 15 times higher than any other Corona Virus and there is no adaption or mutation path common with any other virus. However the high electrostatic charge was developed in labs for virus research and is used in vaccines, and:
  
  [5] A complete failure to disclose that the original Covid-19 virus was created in a lab, but having been released they are struggling to contain it:
  
  I wouldn’t be surprised if the Covid-19 variants are being created by interaction between the vaccine and Covid-19, and:
  
  I am not surprised the deaths in vaccinated countries are as high as vaccinated countries, or that vaccinated people are still dying from Covid-19 (or the vaccine).
  
  Labs opened Pandora’s box when they started creating viruses as part of research. It was only a matter of time until someone made a mistake.
  
  Cassandra Crossing meets Survivors meets Resident Evil.
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:56am
RiP NZ

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1417095882907000836?s=19

Just leave this recent clip here of Democrats valid concerns over election fraud.
Must be valid right, because Democrats are the good guys…right?
They must still hold these views they were so passionate about…right?

TDS sufferers, don’t hurt yourselves twisting and contorting.
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July 20, 2021 8:20am
- Inandout
  
  RIp, the extreme lengths the Dems are going to in their attempts to hobble the voter ID legislation must surely raise suspicion? It has got to the stage where even the most ardent Biden fans on here (unless they are hopelessly TDS) must think ‘why doth the Dems protest so much’? ID is required for all sections of society to function in this world.
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:11am
  - Batman
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    It’s not about voter ID, you little authoritarians just like to frame it as that.
    
    It’s the systematic suppression of access to the vote and the handing over of the power to decide elections to politicians in gerrymandered red states.
    
    The ultimate temper tantrum by angry snowflakes who feel entitled to win.
    
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    July 20, 2021 9:39am
    - Inandout
      
      Bat, can I respond ‘bullshit’? Your rising anger exposes your leftist tendencies and you trot out the usual ‘systematic suppression’ of voters. I then contend if a US citizen is required to prove ID to get Joe’s ‘welfare for all’ landed in their bank account, then why the hell not when voting? This Dem attempted blockade is winning them no votes, in fact a vast majority of adult citizens want voter ID.
      
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      July 20, 2021 10:30am
      - Batman
        
        Inandout, you certainly can use bullshit! As another Mod has shown by approving your comment.
        
        What rising anger? You sound way more angry than I do.
        
        I have no leftist tendency. Sadly the US conservative base and the Trump mob have redefined the right to vote as a leftist cause and politicised it. The currently proposed 100+ Bills in state houses mark a turning point where states are now failing to uphold article 1 section 4 and the 14th amendment.
        See article and interpretation: https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/interpretation/article-i/clauses/750
        
        Your argument holds no water beyond a nice sounding made up example. In every state you still need to register to vote and verify your identity. There is no evidence that current provisions have led to more than isolated cases of vote fraud by individuals (which have been identified because of current verification methods and processes).
        
        It would probably easily pass the Congress if all was proposed was aligning federal welfare verification requirements with state level voting rules. You’d need additional measures to ensure those on native land with no fixed address can vote (another thing the GOP has targeted for elimination), but simple and obvious is not the goal, restricting the vote is the goal.
        
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        July 20, 2021 1:58pm
    - Cassandra
      
      And the blue states wouldn’t dream of gerrymandering? Voter ID may well have the effect you’re complaining about, Batman, but it also has the effect of reducing fraud. And every country which has fair elections has voter ID. You’re not in favour of that? And you wonder why you get multiple downticks.
      
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      July 20, 2021 11:23am
      - Harriet
        
        The US left all wanted vaccination id cards — in hindsight maybe the Republicans should have supported that — and then used them for voter id.
        
        just sayin. 😎
        
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        July 20, 2021 12:33pm
      - Batman
        
        Hi Cassandra – yes you’re quite right. There are blue states which have gerrymandered and they should also be hauled over the coals. No politician should get to choose their voters, period. I firmly believe the US needs an independent federal districting commission, as allowed for under A1 s4 of the constitution.
        
        “May well have the effect” – yes it very much does when done by partisans of any political persuasion with the intent of restricting the vote to the people they like. That includes onerous restrictions as well as boundary drawing.
        
        Voter ID (as implemented by some states in a partisan fashion) does not reliably reduce real fraud, only imagined fraud. Just looking at the voters who used their spouses or parents mail ballots to vote for the prior guy. Crucially, it also locks many voters out who are constitutionally entitled to vote, on a technicality.
        
        Every country has different rules so your theory is so vague as to be impossible to prove. It is much easier to have voter ID in NZ for instance where we have universal driver licences and options for ID verification during registration.
        
        Your overly simplistic “you’re not in favour of that?” is a fairly disingenuous rhetorical question devoid of any subtlety or nuance. It also assumes your view that “Voter ID” is great and has no negative consequences.
        
        I am in favour of appropriate ID requirements when registering to vote and when voting. Such as we have in NZ. Of course that relies upon having a system that is designed to enable voting and not discourage it with complex rules, intentionally difficult registration, and long lines on a weekday with no allowance for water or food or toilet breaks.
        
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        July 20, 2021 2:12pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Yes end gerrymander
        
        Yes require voter ID. It’s nuts not too and if a qualified voter can’t be bothered organising that (in amongst all the other things like drivers licenses, bank accounts etc that they certainly have) then they are not adult enough to be voting. Not requiring ID is just giving the thumbs up to fraud.
        
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        July 20, 2021 2:41pm
    - SilverSurfer
      
      Batman are you referring to the ultimate temper tantrums that you are so commonly prone to when somone has a different opinion to your own?
      
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      July 20, 2021 11:44am
      - Batman
        
        Not at all dear chap/chapess.
        
        It’s fairly amusing that some here are sensitive enough to think being called what they are is actually the other person having a tantrum.
        
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        July 20, 2021 2:15pm
    - BananaLlama
      
      If the Right need a Vaccination certificate to fly in a plane then the left can go get a Photo ID to vote.
      At any point in time you are welcome to meet us in the middle and we can start getting rid of these stupid laws.
      
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      July 20, 2021 12:51pm
      - Batman
        
        Banana, you’re comparing apples with, uh, bananas ?
        
        Yeah I agree that photo ID for voting registration would be great, like we have in NZ.
        
        The trick is when states introduce weirdly hard requirements for the permitted IDs, then reduce down the number of permitted IDs (like banning College IDs despite them often bring just as good as other IDs).
        
        Is this middle enough? I think I’m fairly in the middle when you get down to the detail.
        
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        July 20, 2021 2:29pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Interesting to note that the radicals in the Democrat Party are starting to get pissed off about the yawning gap between Biden’s words and actions on the whole “voter suppression” angle they’ve been pushing.
    
    To whit, for all of his silly claims about the “new Jim Crow”, “greatest threat to democracy” and blah, blah, blah – there’s no indication that Biden has tried twisting any arms, especially those of Senator’s Manchin and Senema, to overthrow the Senate filibuster and pass the great One Party To Rule Them All, H.R.1.
    
    Well of course not. As radicals usually fail to understand, Biden’s rhetoric is designed merely to amp up Democrat voters, particularly the POC vote, for 2022. A broader and more comprehensive version of his “They’re gonna put y’all back in chains” nonsense of 2012. Of course he’s not going to make his actions match his words.
    
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    July 20, 2021 10:10am
  - Paulus
    
    All that is required is a formal and truthful document of Voter’s identity.
    Why do the Dems object ?
    
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    July 20, 2021 10:50am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Polling shows a clear majority of US Voters want Voter ID and Electoral processes robust.
      ID is required everywhere. Even the ‘Fleebaggers’
      https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2021/07/the-week-in-pictures-dems-on-the-lam-edition.php
      who ran away from Texas had to provide ID- to book into their Hotel in Washington. So funny.
      All most of these States are doing is correcting the changes the Dems made- in some cases illegally- to make Absentee Voting easier- which also made checking the validity of a Vote harder.
      In both Texas and Georgia, whilst the changes reverse some of the mad Rules the Dems created, the new Rules actually are an improvement and provide more flexibility to Voters.
      
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      July 20, 2021 12:12pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Just on the Fleebaggers.
        Nothing says more about respecting Democracy when you run away and deliberately try to subvert the Democratic process in doing so.
        
        No masks on that plane too. Hypocrites. Ironically 5 of them caught Covid- lol.
        
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        July 20, 2021 12:17pm
      - Batman
        
        All on Red, no surprise that you’re actively lying about the Texas and Georgia voting Bills.
        
        Your attempts at explaining away are so easily foiled by a cursory glance at the changes:
        
        https://apnews.com/article/health-government-and-politics-texas-voting-coronavirus-pandemic-9bc36a6e8c967757340ab25f49b8ddbf
        
        https://apnews.com/article/what-does-new-georgia-gop-election-law-do-87665a200f6442e28ef43cbc60c88653
        
        The changes are far deeper than just a simple roll back of recent changes (which it should be noted caused no problem other than making it easier to vote during a pandemic and not die. No fraud, nothing.)
        
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        July 20, 2021 2:36pm
    - Tom Hunter
      
      Well according to several senior Democrats they are no longer objecting to Voter ID. Even someone like Stacey Abrams, who led the charge in Georgia:
      
      In 2018, Georgia’s wannabe governor, Stacey Abrams, said voter ID laws are intended to “scare people out of voting.” Now, she audaciously says, “No one has ever objected to having to prove who you are to vote. It’s been part of our nation’s history since the inception of voting.”
      
      Stacey has been doing a Trump for years now, claiming she was cheated out of winning the Georgia Governor’s race – but no conspiracy theory charge is ever hurled at her, nor is she blocked from Social Media. She even gets to write USA Today op-eds.
      
      Then there’s one of the benafactors of the Dec-Jan shitstorm on voting, Georgia senator Warnock:
      
      For years, then-Pastor Raphael Warnock, now a senator from Georgia, claimed ID laws were a form of “voter suppression” so “unnecessary and unjustifiable” that they amount to “dismember[ing]” Martin Luther King Jr.
      
      And now?: “I have never been opposed to voter ID. And in fact, I don’t know anybody who is.”
      
      MUHAHHAHAHAAHAHH. They’ve seen the polls, which show that even a substantial majority of Black voters support voter ID.
      
      That’s also why you’ve seen backpedalling on this subject by Democrat supporters here at Kiwiblog, although judging from recent screaming about voter suppression, White Supremacism, the GOP as Nazis and yada, yada, yada….not everybody has got the message yet.
      
      In any case the real shite the GOP needs to crack down on are lax security measures around mail-in absentee ballots and ballot harvesting (people assigned to collect ballots from people who cannot or will not go to a voting station or mail it). That’s what enables the “counting” tactic of Chicago and Texas lore, and more recently in California.
      
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      July 20, 2021 1:19pm
      - Batman
        
        Between your performative whining Tom (hint, inviting violent mobs to overthrow government gets you banned) and your shallower than a bird bath claims about voter ID, it’s hard to know where to start!
        
        So I think I’ll boil it down to recommending that you learn what context and grey areas are. It might help you understand why someone might oppose assault rifles being available, let’s say, but be perfectly fine with hunting rifles. Or voter ID which is designed to enable voting, rather than have onerous requirements which restrict access to voting.
        
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        July 20, 2021 1:26pm
KevO'Brien

If you follow “green energy” developments enjoy the jargon that has to be untangled:

“As I see things, a major constituent of the Sun’s photosphere is metallic hydrogen. The Sun broadcasts megatons of metallic hydrogen into space every day in the solar wind. Metallic hydrogen is a superconductor that is the primary feedstock for dark matter. When the exotic vacuum object that forms around the metallic hydrogen invariably becomes unstable when its Higgs field energy content becomes large, it explodes in a EVO terminating Bosenova. The Bosenova generates a dark photon that acts as a Leptoquark, the force carrier for the fifth force associated with grand unification of forces carried by the EVO.”
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July 20, 2021 8:25am
- rangitoto
  
  Wooo alert.
  
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  July 20, 2021 10:01am
- cmm
  
  It isn’t development. It’s buzzword smoothies made to attract funding or suck in the gullible. I suppose the second paragraph misquotes Tesla or Einstein.
  
  “As I see things,” aka “My reality is…”
  
  “a major constituent of the Sun’s photosphere is metallic hydrogen”. Sure there is possibly metallic hydrogen inside the sun at high pressures. ie. hydrogen compressed into liquid form behaves like a metal in the way it conducts etc.
  
  “The Sun broadcasts megatons of metallic hydrogen into space every day in the solar wind. ” The hydrogen in the solar winds is not metallic. So bullshit.
  
  “Metallic hydrogen is a superconductor that is the primary feedstock for dark matter.”
  I doubt metallic hydrogen is a superconductor at high temperatures, maybe it is but the stuff in the solar winds is not metallic and is not superconducting.
  
  Nobody knows what dark matter is, or even if it exists, let alone what it is made of. So bullshit speculation.
  
  “When the exotic vacuum object that forms around the metallic hydrogen invariably becomes unstable when …” Why would a vaccum form around metallic hydrogen (especially since it does not exist where he’s talking about)? Again, bullshit speculation wrapped up in some buzzwords.
  
  etc etc etc
  
  Free energy nutters! Like politicians they love to wrap a lie in a figment of truth.
  
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  July 20, 2021 10:13am
  - SilverSurfer
    
    Im sure you would be more than happy to take advantage of free energy when it happens though aye or will you not indulge out of principle ?
    
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    July 20, 2021 11:54am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Free energy does not mean it has no cost. It just means we inject less effort and energy than we extract. I marvel at it when I turn on a light. Hydro-elecricity – creating free energy ever since Tesla harnessed Niagara falls.
      
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      July 20, 2021 1:22pm
    - cmm
      
      I won’t waste my time looking for something that doesn’t exist.
      
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      July 20, 2021 3:13pm
- NoCash
  
  Is it similar to the turbo encabulator?
  https://youtu.be/2fjcJp_Nwvk
  
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  July 20, 2021 12:48pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Strange, I thought this was somewhat comic. Any specialty has its jargon, in this one the EVO refers to an Exotic Vacuum Object. (Those were found in the early days of radio valves and the designers had to work around them. Now they are thought to be like impossibly small balls of lightning.)
  
  This is the territory of the sub-atomic physics bringing us the new cold fusion energy which will power our homes and transport I reckon within the next 10 years. I don’t know if it will ever be explainable–ultimately it’s the results that count. Now that NASA has affirmed it with it’s own patents in it’s all on.
  
  I am on standby for the demo of a non-battery, no recharge, electric racing car. This technology is really buzzing now the clues to it have been cracked and replicated sufficiently world wide in the past 2-3 years.
  
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  July 20, 2021 12:52pm
- JackRabbit
  
  I am interested in cosmic energy, so I appreciate your enthusiasm, but these are all theories until proven.
  
  For it to be a principle, it has top be shown. Principles derive from observations of reality, theories from thinking about what reality may be.
  
  To ‘take a leaf out of Tesla’s book’, – if you understand it, you can build it. In general, Tesla filed patents, wrote articles, and presented lectures AFTER he had made it work.
  
  To ‘take a leaf out of Richard Feynman’s book’ –
  [1] What I cannot create, I do not understand.
  [2] If you can’t explain something in simple terms, you don’t understand it
  
  Patent archives are filled with ideas and theories that ‘might’ work.
  
  Green energy is like a better mousetrap. Build it, and if it works, the world will beat a path to your door.
  
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  July 20, 2021 1:15pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The cold fusion nut has been cracked. Like the early 20th C. with electricity there is a commercial race underway at present.
    
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    July 20, 2021 6:22pm
I will not surrender

In unexpected news, another non-delivery.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/government-schedule-to-fix-critical-health-assets-at-risk/ar-AAMky9Y?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
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July 20, 2021 8:27am
- Inandout
  
  I, yet the sickly smooth water lady wants us to welcome the 3 waters when this govt couldn’t organise shit. The ad has all the Green sound effects.
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:14am
  - Raphael
    
    There needs to be way more sunlight on the 3 Waters mess.
    
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    July 20, 2021 10:51am
Maggie Pie

With the Olympics now only 3 days away, one of the girls from tennis was telling us the TAB has New Zealand as favorite to win Gold in the woman’s snatch.

https://twitter.com/_ROARNZ/status/1417066912404500480
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July 20, 2021 8:43am
- ldypen
  
  Bwahahaha.. you said “snatch”
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:48am
- Biscuit
  
  Maggie, at the risk of incurring ‘You sexist pig!’ jibes, ha, I have now decided I am not now gonna watch any of the Norwegian team’s play in the Women’s Beach Volleyball.
  
  Apparently, the ‘rules’ – written by officials of which gender, I wonder? – for Women’s Beach Volleyball stipulate that bikinis must be worn in play.
  
  Norway have rebelled and are gonna front in shorts and tee-shirts instead…
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:51am
  - Flossie
    
    I did read an item about the Norwegian women’s handball team and the required attire at the world champs. So are both/one/none of these stories correct? (I’m not familiar with handball)
    
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    July 20, 2021 10:58am
    - Biscuit
      
      Both are correct, Flossie.
      
      Seems Beach Handball and Beach Volleyball are interchangeable terms.
      
      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9802903/Norways-beach-handball-team-REFUSES-wear-bikini-bottoms-faces-fine.html
      
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      July 20, 2021 1:37pm
      - Tall Man
        
        I wonder if this rule may be applied to women weightlifters ………
        
        God forbid but at least the women are sans tackle ….. aren’t they?
        
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        July 20, 2021 2:33pm
      - Jack5
        
        Biscuit:
        
        Handball, including the beach version, has goals with nets, while volleyball uses a net across the centre of the “court”.
        
        You can see Norwegian women beach handball players in action against Danes in this video. Viking women.
        
        https://youtu.be/Cm4IxrvNX24
        
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        July 20, 2021 4:45pm
Batman

Getting in early before any of the vaccine cranks can hype up the mistake out of the UK:

Sir Patrick Vallance had a bit of a verbal blunder it seems!

“Correcting a statistic I gave at the press conference today, 19 July. About 60% of hospitalisations from covid are not from double vaccinated people, rather 60% of hospitalisations from covid are currently from unvaccinated people.”
https://twitter.com/uksciencechief/status/1417204235356213252?s=19
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July 20, 2021 8:43am
- Ludvyk
  
  And so 40% of “cases” are from injected people. It’s not a vaccine, There is no antigen, its an mRNA to induce you to make your own spike protein Sars-Cov2 pathogen.
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:07am
  - Batman
    
    It teaches your body how to produce the ‘S’ protein (which is the part that gains access to your cells), not the virus itself. It’s basically a more clever way of producing the antibodies than injecting dead virus like with old school vaccines.
    
    https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/mRNA-vaccines.asp
    
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    July 20, 2021 3:06pm
- Ronin
  
  When you start off with abuse, I stop reading.
  
  Funny, being a mod seems to come with the privilege to do what others get sanctioned for.
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:22am
  - Batman
    
    Calling unspecified people cranks is hardly abuse, and hardly likely to be moderated. We allow a lot stronger language than what I used.
    
    Perhaps you didn’t like the main thrust of it so are attempting create a distraction from the main point.
    
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    July 20, 2021 9:47am
    - Ronin
      
      Now you’re implying that I’m one of the ones you are generalizing about. Like I didn’t see that coming. You’re quite predictable.
      
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      July 20, 2021 10:12am
      - Batman
        
        Do you have a point to your bad faith argument or just a seeking to distract from the fact that most people suffering from the virus are those who are unvaccinated?
        
        Get your vaccine when available.
        
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        July 20, 2021 3:08pm
- Simon
  
  Lol – its a fast changing number. Zero coivd nut jobs get your jollies while you can even 40% is a train wreck.
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:35am
  - Vory v zakone
    
    Speaking of numbers… It is alleged that 45,000 people have died from the COVID Vaccine within 3 days in the US, and they have covered it up. (CDC report had just under 11,000 up to July 9)
    Attorney Thom Renz has filed the paperwork and lawsuit and is suing the Federal Government for full disclosure
    
    The cure can’t be worse than the disease.
    
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    July 20, 2021 11:04am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Given relative age-related risks with Covid there will likely be some age cut-off point where the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease. We should hope that the Medical industrial complex can be honest about establishing where that cut-off lies and put individual safety ahead of industry profit or population averaged benefits.
      
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      July 20, 2021 2:49pm
      - Batman
        
        Vory must be citing the monitoring database and conflating any deaths with supposed vaccine deaths.
        
        When you’re doing millions of jabs per week there’s a lot of scope for people to get run over, shot (esp in the US), drowned, have a heart attack etc after coincidentally getting the vaccine.
        
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        July 20, 2021 3:11pm
Happychappy

Ryan Bridge : If a police officer says they need a weapon to do the job who am i to stand in their way.
For me i was shit scared when i went to Melbourne in 1979 and was definitely against Police Officers having weapons in New Zealand but have changed my opinion now with Gangs and seasoned Criminals in our country using them now on a dailly basis and putting more lives at risk every minute of our days.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/07/ryan-bridge-if-a-police-officer-says-they-need-a-weapon-to-do-their-job-who-am-i-to-stand-in-their-way.html
As the old adage says give a sucker a even break and normally you will pay for it, so don’t take the risk.
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July 20, 2021 8:45am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Happychappy, there would no reason to be still shit scared in Melbourne
  Police hit mentally distressed guy with car then stomp on his head.
  Officers told what they did is perfectly acceptable.
  https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/police-hit-victorian-man-with-car-before-stomping-on-his-head-video-reveals/news-story/69b58e8d850aa02584d728c4873a2865
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:38am
- cmm
  
  The weapons are a tiny part of it. Proper ongoing training is the more essential part.
  
  Even better training on deploying the weapons they already have would be a step up.
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:57am
  - oldfella
    
    Does anyone on KB really think Cindy will sign off on issuing frontline police with sidearms?
    Nah, not on her watch.
    However, money for gangs is okay… they’re her voters.
    
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    July 20, 2021 10:09am
kevn

@bat… Nothing worse than a vaccine crank is there?
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July 20, 2021 8:51am
- SilverSurfer
  
  Kool aid drinkers maybe?
  
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  July 20, 2021 11:58am
- Batman
  
  Well I mean there’s murderers, rapists, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, tax evaders, mafioso, prudes, vegans, and of course the lost cause devotees.
  
  So quite a selection ?
  
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  July 20, 2021 3:14pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING…

Train and Ferry services disrupted again across Auckland this morning.

Yet another reason not to employ anyone who relies on Public Transport.

Just saying.
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July 20, 2021 8:54am
- sooty
  
  Did you see that the Hamilton to the outer burbs of Auckland left half it’s carriages somewhere down the line!
  Hope all the passengers were in the front half?
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:10am
  - oldgolfer
    
    Sounds like a choo-choo boo-boo.
    
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    July 20, 2021 10:26am
  - mandk
    
    I shouldn’t worry, sooty.
    
    Only half a dozen pax will have been inconvenienced.
    
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    July 20, 2021 11:59am
- Ruawai
  
  How do so many ferries all have mechanical problems at the same time?
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:35am
- MCos
  
  Alternatively you can use the motorway system . . . . .
  
  The other day we went for a spin down to Hamilton and struck the rush hour traffic coming back at about 3.30pm.
  
  Lordy Lordy.
  
  There’s a sign that says Expressway Ends – well they got that right!
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:48am
  - alloytoo
    
    For the past week it appears that I have orange cones from Home door to work door.
    in the past 12 years I have yet to see Auckland transport actually do anything to improve traffic.
    
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    July 20, 2021 1:07pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Auckland Transport has no intention of improving traffic flow in AKLD. Their stated aim is to get AKLDers out of their cars and onto their poxy busses. Remind me again how many effing Labour aligned Mayors AKLD has had in recent times.
      
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      July 20, 2021 1:23pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Lol Maggie, nothing has changed over the years. A good few years back, I decided to be the good citizen and look after the environment. Even though I had a car park in the city, I decided to catch the bus. First issue was that, back then, I usually started work at 6.15 a.m. Buses didn’t start running from Howick until (from memory) 6.15. Then I caught what I didn’t realise was a “slow” bus. You know, the one that stops every 100m. Insanely, I didn’t make the city until 7.45. I could near bloody well have flown to Sydney! Anyway, I then found the “fast” bus. Which took about 1 hour. But even that didn’t clinch me giving it away. Two days in succession, I went to catch the 6 p.m. back home. Buses went every 20 minutes from 4 to 6 p.m., then every hour. Of course, I dutifully turned up at the bus stop at 5.55. To find no bus. And no bus arriving. Both days, the bus had left BEFORE 6. And so back to work and wait for the 7 p.m. So that was it. No more environmental shit for me and no more travelling with the great unwashed. Pricking system!
  
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  July 20, 2021 11:05am
Maggie Pie

PRIME MINISTER ARDERN INSPECTS THE TROOPS…

In New Zealand, reference to ‘foreign interference’ almost ALWAYS relates to the activities of Pres Xi and the CCP.

https://twitter.com/Anne_MarieBrady/status/1416966695596396546

(A MUST READ)
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July 20, 2021 9:17am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, she must be thinking of ways to dress up like those troops to ’empathise’.
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:29am
- oldfella
  
  Maggie, why does our govt ignore Marie Brady? Not a hard question to answer —
  A New Zealand academic says Twitter temporarily restricted her account after she mocked Chinese President Xi Jinping.
  University of Canterbury Professor Anne-Marie Brady is an expert on China’s attempts to exert political influence around the world and has been an outspoken critic of its ruling Communist Party. Last week, she sent tweets poking fun at the party’s 100th anniversary celebrations.
  https://apnews.com/article/china-business-technology-3741dcfb1c2eb11f17280c9ed8c06fc4
  
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  July 20, 2021 10:12am
Jack5

Bureaucratic corruption is involved in Indian driving licences in New Zealand, says an expert on Indian migration.

Rumours and accusations have been abundant about this for a long time. Is the Transport Agency (Waka X) where the rot is?

And his statement comes as the insidiously Woke and weak NZ Immigration and Protection Tribunal is blocking deportation of Indians illegally in New Zealand because of Covid-19 in India.

What’s the use of having a Government to set immigration rules if a bunch of unelected Wokies can overturn its policy and rules?

Time to close the tribunal, it’s on the side of the gate crashers, not the citizens of New Zealand.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/125797221/too-cruel-why-deportations-may-end-due-to-covid19
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July 20, 2021 9:22am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Used to be same in China (buy a license without being able to drive – I knew a chinese lady who did this 10 years back), likely still is the case.
  
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  July 20, 2021 2:53pm
Happychappy

https://i.stuff.co.nz/opinion/96288672/tom-scott-cartoons
I thought this cartoon was a great resemblance of Jacinda Arderns demeanor.
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July 20, 2021 9:23am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Scott needs to see a doctor. His cartoon was not anti-National.
  
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  July 20, 2021 10:12am
  - mandk
    
    But it is a great example of Scott’s irrational Ardern adoration.
    
    It would have been more accurate if Ardern had been represented as one of the non-delivering dwarves (along with Robinson, Hipkins, Wood et al) and the Snow White character had been played by one of the 25,000 or so families on the housing priority waiting list.
    
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    July 20, 2021 11:57am
tf78

I hope the ZB bosses are happy with themselves now, Martin Devlin tried to take his own life and was found by his son. This news makes me so sad and angry. I hope it’s a wakeup call to all the real bullies out there and they are often at the very top. God speed Martin, be well.
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July 20, 2021 9:28am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Is it too much to hope that the top brass at NZME have a collective conscience, and realise they overstepped the mark by some distance against one of their own?
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:40am
Brian McDonald

Security PI style. Only in….
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby-manu-samoa-players-defend-fan-tackled-by-security-guard/ZFTDJHXEG6W
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July 20, 2021 9:28am
Brian McDonald

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Richard Shaw looks to Aotearoa’s future by looking at its past. While unappetizing to a lot of NZers it is not going away. While Richard does not clearly offer a solution he nails the problem in a very direct way. Not for the weak-hearted but certainly for realists.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/the-conversation-from-parihaka-to-he-puapua-its-time-pakeha-new-zealanders-faced-their-personal-connections-to-the-past/HZAED6TZTD3WT63BFJH2OUNIXY/
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July 20, 2021 9:36am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  You lost me at ‘Ao…’
  
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  July 20, 2021 10:13am
  - Ronin
    
    Lost me at Bri…
    
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    July 20, 2021 10:17am
Tony Stuart

Broadcaster Martin Devlin attempted to commit suicide last night. His former wife has shared to story on social media, after having been threatened with lawyers by NZME for critical posts on Sunday afternoon.

Devlin was cleared by an independent inquiry into his conduct at NZME. One of the “complainants” has since said she’s glad the complaint was not upheld, and she had not wanted to complain. Still though, NZME continued to vilify Devlin, despite their own inquiry having found in his favour.

Something is terribly wrong with the culture at NZME in particular, but in the media in general. They adopt the bully pulpit, and hound people, publicly and relentlessly. In this case, it seems even worse, given that Devlin is one of NZME’s own.

Martin Devlin will be the first to agree that he’s not by any means perfect, and in recent months, has sought help for his anger. His ex-wife mentioned in the now deleted posts from Sunday that this was the one positive to have come out of this whole messy business. Clearly though, NZME’s bullying of his former wife on Sunday by threatening legal action against her, for statements she unconditionally stands by, was the last straw.

My heart goes out to Martin and his family. When I was “outed” by Nicky Hager in 2014, I had to deal with a newspaper story and a kicking on social media. I have little doubt that this, even though it was miniscule compared to the scorn poured on Devlin, contributed to my mental health breakdown three years later. I cannot begin to imagine how Martin must have felt last night, nor how his 20yo son must have been feeling as he had to force his way into a locked garage to save his father’s life.

I implore NZME to sit down and reflect on their role this incident. There has to be a balance between what is news, and what should remain private. I commend Martin’s family for their unconditional support at what must be an incredibly traumatic time. Hopefully Martin gets the treatment he needs and makes a full recovery, and that something good comes out of this appalling situation.
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July 20, 2021 9:38am
- Salacious Crumb
  
  Not to mention Stuff’s gleeful reporting of his workplace issues.
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:52am
  - graham
    
    Yup.
    
    For an organisation that have been hand-wringing over their ‘shameful’ treatment and reporting on Maori issues, and the disservice they’ve done to Maori, they seem all too ready to pounce gleefully on other people (*cough* *cough* white males) and drag their reputations through the sewer.
    
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    July 20, 2021 10:34am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      The media have some reputation left?
      
      Colour me surprised!
      
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      July 20, 2021 12:50pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  What gives at 1ZB? 🙁
  
  I recall Marty’s predecessor on the DRS tried the same thing!
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:53am
- CAKE FACE1
  
  I’ve seen a couple of articles on Stuff about this character Mr Devlin.
  
  I had never heard of the guy before. A Stuff reporter breathlessly said that he may or may not have punched someone, or something like this. The article was voluminous, but I couldn’t understand the point of it.
  
  So I googled the guy, on account of the weirdness of these events being somehow newsworthy, and confirmed that Mr Devlin was indeed some kind of journalist. I was still none the wiser why any of this was newsworthy.
  
  I sat there, scratching my head.
  
  I came to the conclusion that there must have been a fight between different hacks at Stuff, and some hack used his space to be mean to another one. It all seems rather childish to me.
  
  Meanwhile, the country is going to Hell…
  
  NZ is a very strange place to me…
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:58am
  - Jules99
    
    I’m in a similar position. Sounds like he behaved badly, but not so much to get him sacked after an investigation. He’s apologised and admitted fault, so why the hounding?
    
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    July 20, 2021 1:22pm
- Cinematic
  
  Those in the msm are for the most part a nasty bunch. Particularly nasty to their own.
  
  Martin is particularly talented so they’ll hate on him all the more.
  
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  July 20, 2021 10:06am
- lofty
  
  I don’t know Martin other than enjoying his sports show on ZB.
  If what you say above is correct Tony, then there are heads that should be held down in shame.
  It also reinforces my personal stand on never ever reading anything from Stuff.
  I wish him and his family well, and a recovery that he can live with, as I know the black dog is always nipping at your heels.
  
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  July 20, 2021 10:21am
- harvey wilson
  
  Stuff deserve to be mentioned along with NZME in particular Alison Mau . She’s the self professed nz metoo reporter and yet addresses Labour’s issues with rape culture with only the most token efforts while joining in the hounding of the likes of Devlin .
  
  Darren Hughes , multiple summer camp sexual assaults , Willie and JG mocking roastbusters victims , a serial sexual harasser and alleged rapist working in the pms office and report alleging Labour has a huge issue with rape culture and coverups and none of it is considered newsworthy by NZs metoo journo ?
  
  She does have a sweet selfie with Ardern though , good for her .
  
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  July 20, 2021 10:31am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    My issue is with NZME, not with Stuff, which is of course NZME’s rival.
    
    Despite Devlin having been cleared by an inquiry into his conduct, NZME continued to what amounted to a vendetta against him. His former wife published details of that on Sunday afternoon, and within an hour had NZME’s lawyers telling her to cease and desist or they would be forced to take action. Now Devlin is in hospital, recovering from a determined, serious suicide attempt. I hope there’s someone within NZME’s top brass with a conscience.
    
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    July 20, 2021 10:48am
    - lofty
      
      Understood Tony.
      
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      July 20, 2021 10:56am
CAKE FACE1

At 50, I wonder if I’m the youngest poster here?

I suspect that the average age of posters here is around 70?

I suppose these fora only reflect the views of a rather narrow demographic…
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July 20, 2021 9:43am
- cmm
  
  What is the point you’re trying to make?
  
  There are many ways to slice and dice people: age, race, gender, hair colour,… but what’s the point unless you’re trying to play some them vs us game?
  
  Find any group of people who associate voluntarily and they, and their views, will represent a narrow demographic.
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:52am
- Jack5
  
  “These fora” ???
  
  How many blogs are you active on Cakie?
  
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  July 20, 2021 10:22am
  - CAKE FACE1
    
    Kiwiblog – is it a forum or forums (fora?)…
    
    I also comment sometimes on Bob Jones’ blog.
    
    I used to try to post to Stuff, but the computer said no to my comments virtually 100% of the time. LOL.
    
    CAKE is verboten there…
    
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    July 20, 2021 10:42am
    - Jules99
      
      I’m similar age to you.
      
      Back in the day when I worked in newspapers, it was drummed into me that fora was not the plural for forum as it didn’t have a latin root. Now if you google it, they claim it does, so I don’t what changed.
      
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      July 20, 2021 1:25pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        You were misinformed.
        
        Forum has always been the Latin noun meaning a Public space, an Open space, a market space.
        
        Fora and Forums are perfectly acceptable plural versions of the noun in English.
        
        (Fora is the Latin plural – Nominative case)
        
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        July 20, 2021 2:17pm
      - Jack5
        
        Cakie (10.42 post), re forums or fora …
        
        Grammar trivia is a waste of time, but it’s bloody addictive. As H.G. Wells is reputed to have said: “No passion in the world is equal to the passion to alter someone else’s draft.”
        
        But, Cakie, you asked for this, so:
        
        1. The New Fowler’s, edited by R.W. Burchfield, plumps for forums.
        
        2. If you want to fanatic about the Latin origin and use fora, in theory you should choose a spelling depending on the role of the word in the sentence.
        
        In Latin, the plural of forum is:
        
        Nominative: fora.
        Genitive: fororum.
        Dative: foris.
        Accusative: fora.
        Ablative: foris.
        Vocative: fora.
        
        FFS, just call it forums.
        
        Re grammar addiction: Blogs are addictive, too. I bet Kiwiblog’s posters number a higher than average proportion of smokers or ex-smokers of tobacco or marijuana; of alcoholics, dry or still drinking; and of sufferers of other addictions.
        
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        July 20, 2021 2:27pm
- Inandout
  
  CF1, then we wait in anticipation for your ‘youthfull’ comments. You realise of course that many commenters work from home and comment from time to time. Age can be an advantage when recalling past stuff ups by various regimes.
  
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  July 20, 2021 10:41am
  - CAKE FACE1
    
    Hahaha. I’m not representing youth – I’m too long in the tooth for that…
    
    I thought I was making an interesting observation, rather than some nefarious “point”…
    
    As you were…
    
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    July 20, 2021 11:00am
- Raphael
  
  Nope, I am 40 and have been a participant on this board for the last 10 years or so. (and not changed in my political opinion in the last decade)
  
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  July 20, 2021 10:55am
  - Raphael
    
    I will add that I am a day younger than our Glorious Leader who the MSM insist on calling “young” and “youthful”.
    
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    July 20, 2021 10:56am
- SilverSurfer
  
  Na i’m 44, your a close second though?
  
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  July 20, 2021 12:05pm
- Pharmachick
  
  Not that it matters but I got ya beat by 6 years Cake…
  
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  July 20, 2021 12:15pm
  - Pharmachick
    
    Oh dammit – Raphael for the win?
    
    3 0
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    July 20, 2021 12:16pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Nah.
      Batman is 12
      He wins.
      lol
      
      9 2
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      July 20, 2021 12:32pm
      - Batman
        
        AoR you should really stop telling people what your mental age is ??? ?
        
        Jokes aside, I am probably the youngest regular commenter. Being on the young side of 35.
        
        As a vague rule, KBs commenting community is (ironically) pale, male, and older from what I see.
        
        Didn’t David do a survey?
        
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        July 20, 2021 3:31pm
      - Jack5
        
        Batty: 34 is in the mature age group for you ?vespertilios.?
        
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        July 20, 2021 4:29pm
- lifesgood
  
  I thought your comments were ill informed and juvenile. There is still time to grow up.
  
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  July 20, 2021 1:44pm
- Centrist
  
  You’re older than me.
  
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  July 20, 2021 7:06pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I suppose these fora only reflect the views of a rather narrow demographic…
  
  You might be surprised to discover that we oldies are a widening demographic:
  
  The population of NZ is ageing fast.
  https://www.superseniors.msd.govt.nz/about-superseniors/media/key-statistics.html
  
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  July 20, 2021 7:28pm
cmm

So after all the immediate knee-jerk nonsense about climate change, the truth about Westport is starting to emerge: the bastards have not dredged the river for the last 5 years!

Water resistance goes up with the cube of water speed meaning that small reductions in the flow cross section (ie. the water depth) can result in much higher friction, causing the water to back up – resulting in flooding.

Elsewhere there’s some climate scientist complaining that stop banks do not work. Bollocks, stop banks do work but they are designed as part of a system. Dredging is part of that system. No dredging and the system fails – not the stopbanks themselves.

Almost all river mouths are inherently floodplains. If they are not adequately engineered (stop banks & dredging) then they live up to their names

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/west-coast/125799328/west-coast-floods-former-harbour-master-says-pleas-to-dredge-buller-river-ignored
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July 20, 2021 9:47am
- Master Mariner
  
  Yes once Holsum ? cement pulled out it was no longer economical / required to dredge.
  Incidently Grey river has been dredged and ongoing.
  
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  July 20, 2021 10:00am
- KevO'Brien
  
  It takes an engineer to speak sense.
  
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  July 20, 2021 10:04am
- WaveyDavey
  
  Same with the climate change BS re the German floods
  
  Apparently the CC models, y’know the “science is settled” ones predicted drought conditions
  
  “…map put out by the European Environment Agency, the clear prediction for the Rhineland of south western Germany, as well as for Belgium and the southern Netherlands, is that summers will become drier. Indeed, when Germany did have a dry summer last year that, too, was put down to climate change.”
  
  https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-climate-change-to-blame-for-germany-s-flooding-
  
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  July 20, 2021 10:06am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Somebody in Germany forgot to empty the dams before the forecast heavy rain arrived.
    
    https://notrickszone.com/2021/07/18/germanys-katrina-officials-left-dams-full-for-weeks-even-with-heavy-rains-in-the-forecast/
    
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    July 20, 2021 12:02pm
    - Master Mariner
      
      Weather forecast is of no use when a climate change representative should of been present.
      Whats a weather forecast anymore?//
      
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      July 20, 2021 1:19pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Man made climatic change.
      
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      July 20, 2021 1:22pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Yea Kev, they’re getting desperate when they blame human error on Climate Change.
        
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        July 20, 2021 1:27pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      past floods in Germany were way worse. https://joannenova.com.au/2021/07/a-world-protected-by-windmills-in-1717-christmas-floods-in-germany-killed-14000/
      
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      July 20, 2021 3:00pm
- tf78
  
  cmm, remember when Matata township flooded after a dam caused by slashings from the forestry work gave way.
  
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  July 20, 2021 11:27am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  A few years back there was major flooding on the Somerset Levels in the West Country. Seems they hadnt dredged the channels for years.
  
  Floods in the US along the Ol’ Miss and they hadnt dredged for a long time. Seems all this caused by the Greenies not wanting to dredge.
  
  Fires in Aus caused by office bound Greenies not listening to the Country People and the Aborigines.
  
  In California got rid of the Cactii and planted Eucalypts. Fires spread FAST.
  
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  July 20, 2021 11:35am
  - Nickc2
    
    The flooding in Queensland Aust in 2011 was caused by a technician failing to release water from Wivenhoe Dam which raised water levels in the Brisbane River by up to 10 metres. I was there at the time and the Greenies tried desperately and still do to blame the flooding on Climate Change. Effin wankers.
    
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    July 20, 2021 1:34pm
- MCos
  
  Westport is tiny with a population of about 4-5000 people, built right there on the alluvial flood plain.
  I somehow suspect that dredging and any other river protection schemes are far beyond the economic viability of the community to sustain without private input from some commercial enterprise.
  As it is who’s going pay for the clean up this time.
  Furthermore.
  If it happens once it’ll happen again.
  
  The reason the Coast is so wet is because the moisture laden clouds are trapped by the Alps. That’s first thing you learn at school if you live down that way.
  In a nutshell.
  The more evaporation from warmer weather the more moisture the heavier the rain.
  
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  July 20, 2021 11:36am
  - cmm
    
    At $500k that would work out at $100 per person per year to do the dredging.
    
    If they don’t want to do that then should declare the whole of Westport a flood-prone area and stop all further building there.
    
    But naah, just take a chance and blame global warming if they cock up!
    
    Meanwhile councils are happy to splurge thousands per person on stupid vanity projects like cycleway upgrades.
    
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    July 20, 2021 3:19pm
- mandk
  
  Makes you wonder how people imagine floodplains are formed.
  
  I doubt many would accept that they were created by God approx 6,000 years ago, but does it occur to them that the alternative is that they are the result of repeated floods?
  
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  July 20, 2021 11:48am
Cinematic

Freedom day in England. Open air prison day 488 in NZ.
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July 20, 2021 10:01am
Rusty

Yes the woke/Greenie crowd will be blaming man made climate change for the floods in Westport and not the lack of man made maintenance of its river banks.

It seems any extreme change in weather patterns in NZ are a result of climate change/man made global warming and the need of Govt intervention to pick on farmers, heavy industry, and people driving their fuel polluters on the roads.
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July 20, 2021 10:05am
- Ruawai
  
  Need to check if the rainfall was higher than other heavy rain events in the last 100 years, if not then can’t blame climate change.
  
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  July 20, 2021 12:17pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Let’s not sully the scene with real science.
    
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    July 20, 2021 1:42pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Police Association President states that Gun Violence in NZ is out of control

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/07/gun-violence-out-of-control-majority-of-officers-want-to-be-armed-police-association-president.html

It’s a change in society it’s clear criminals now are very happy to assault and use firearms against police.”

Well, that change in society has happened under Jacinda Ardern’s watch.
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July 20, 2021 10:11am
- Jack5
  
  The clampdown on the legal firearms community has really worked, hasn’t it?
  
  David Seymour was the only sane voice in the panic after the mosques massacre, and they got to him at the last minute so his lone vote could not force the planned confiscations to go before a select committee for calm, rational deliberation.
  
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  July 20, 2021 10:19am
- KevO'Brien
  
  When the govt can order the Police to go easy on law enforcement are they encouraging the more stroppy members of the public the Police have to deal with to be better behaved? Isn’t a Mongrel Mob push worth more than a PM?
  
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  July 20, 2021 1:18pm
- Nickc2
  
  Cindy’s BFF Andrew Coster (Police Commissioner) will not be happy the Police Association has come out and supported its front-line members being armed. I recall Coster saying some time ago that he was diametrically opposed to arming NZs Police Force.
  It would be interesting to know how many of these alleged shooters are repeat offenders and what their sentences were on first offence (if a sentence was imposed).
  It would also be interesting to hear what sentencing Judges and Parole Board members have to say with regard to repeat offenders and those released from Jail early under the direction of Andrew Little/Kris Faafoi’s initiaves.
  
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  July 20, 2021 2:00pm
thirteenstars

We’re starting to see the massaging into shape of a new “explanation” for the origin of COVID now that the Wuhan Lab Leak scenario is gaining momentum.

That being that China was simply trying to engineer a safe variant or other such that would help prevent an epidemic from possible future outbreaks. That is, they were trying to help humanity, not engaging in dangerous biological “research”.

It’s been reported on several news networks and conveniently offers a scenario where China can admit some blame and look suitably contrite, all the while wearing the fig leaf of innocently trying to do the right thing.
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July 20, 2021 10:17am
- Raphael
  
  Fact remains that it looks like Anthony Fauci was funding the gain-of-function research (according to his own emails). So while the CCCP should be held liable for what has happened (will never happen, they would go to war first), Anthony Fauci should be going to jail.
  
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  July 20, 2021 11:03am
  - Batman
    
    Sorry but that is just not true.
    
    https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2021/02/09/covid-dr-anthony-fauci-did-not-fund-research-tied-creation/4450338001/
    
    https://www.factcheck.org/2021/05/the-wuhan-lab-and-the-gain-of-function-disagreement/
    
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    July 20, 2021 3:48pm
Littletramp

Covid transparency. Are there any reliable stats on the weights and/or BMI’s of those hospitalised with covid? I suspect those grossly overweight may be distorting the promoted risk of hospitalisation to average folk.
There does not appear to be much meaningful data available for deeper analysis of the problem or permitted discussion of treatments that may let the world get on top of this. The political message is only vaccine, vaccine, vaccine so how can one help but be skeptical of the motives?
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July 20, 2021 10:19am
- Ehlana
  
  I think the polite phrase is “co-mordities”. Obesity is defined as a BMI of 30 – 34.9, morbid obesity is 35+.
  
  If we’re really serious about limiting the effects of covid (and other viruses), one of the best things the government could have done in last years lock down would have been a televised health improvement program, encouraging good sleeping, eating, exercise etc. On the basis that the healthier you are, the less likely Covid is do you real damage.
  
  I gather the good news on health is that even if you are genetically inclined to weight gain, that only accounts for half of it. So sustained effort at improved lifestyle can still yield great personal benefits.
  
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  July 20, 2021 1:37pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    chuck in a few dollars worth of Vitamin D pills every month to roughly halve risk of death from Covid (particularly for those with darker skin and anyone who has an indoor job).
    
    https://c19early.com/
    
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    July 20, 2021 3:03pm
cmm

“No one in the family had taught him to drive,”

Looks like nobody taught him to respect other peoples’ property either.

Like very action people take, there is a calculation involved that makes them believe the up sides of doing something outweigh the downsides.

The only way to stop crime is to reduce the upsides and increase the downsides and the earlier it is done, the better.

To reduce the upsides:
* Teach kids moral principles that theft is wrong.
* Teach kids that “being cool” is being a loser in the long term.
* Shaming. Instead of getting a reputation boost they need reputation sanctions.

To increase the downsides:
* More low-level punishment so that kids can feel society biting back.

This is a sad business and woke softly, softly policing isn’t really helping.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/125791524/increase-in-teenagers-stealing-cars-joyriding-prompts-message-from-mother-who-lost-16yearold-son
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July 20, 2021 10:26am
- mandk
  
  Woke softly, softly policing is not the fault of the officers on the ground.
  
  It is imposed on them by bleeding heart politicians and shiny bums in the Molesworth St HQ.
  
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  July 20, 2021 11:42am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Well Tyson wont be doing that again! Sorry, no sympathy here, he needs to respect other peoples property.
  
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  July 20, 2021 11:45am
  - cmm
    
    If it wasn’t for the woke bullshit he’d probably still be alive.
    
    This lad was well known to the police, but due to his age – and their wokeness – all they could do was bring him home and chat to his parents.
    
    Some corrective action earlier on could well have changed the trajectory of his life.
    
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    July 20, 2021 5:34pm
- kowtow
  
  Once they learn that Plod isn’t allowed to chase them , it will hand control over to the thieves . The roads will become more dangerous for everyone and inevitably more of the thieves will die doing crazy shit on the roads.
  
  The policy of not chasing in order to prevent deaths will actually lead to more deaths.
  
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  July 20, 2021 12:52pm
Colville

“No one in the family had taught him to drive,”

Didnt he have a playstation? a little auto Jappa is about as easy to drive as a screen. (until it goes wrong)
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July 20, 2021 10:37am
Tony Stuart

I see Stuff has been awarded $300,800 for “a cultural competency course for its journalists”.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/125766201/nz-on-air-dishes-out-96-million-to-journalism

Perhaps NZME could put in an application for funding too; to run anti-bullying training for its journalists, editorial and management staff.
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July 20, 2021 10:54am
- Prince
  
  I see ‘Comments have been closed’ on that story.
  Oh, and ‘There are no Comments’ published.
  I wonder what sort of Comments were made !
  
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  July 20, 2021 11:21am
- Cassandra
  
  Whatever “cultural competency” is. My read of this is that it is illegal racism. I’d be just as opposed to it if the Government was funding the KKK. Maori journalists are just as capable as anyone else of going to journalism school and then getting a job. Derek Fox managed it 40 years ago! This government is buying Maori votes by claiming racial discrimination is not racism! Alice in Wonderland stuff.
  
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  July 20, 2021 11:36am
  - Batman
    
    Yes, learning about other cultures is racist.
    
    Good one Cassandra.
    
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    July 20, 2021 3:50pm
- sooty
  
  How can they give out money for journalists,
  We don’t have any!!!
  
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  July 20, 2021 11:44am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    They are raiding funds voted for COVID relief by Parliament. Is that a form of embezzlement?
    
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    July 20, 2021 1:13pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  But he expected the commercial mainstream media sector would not be “all that thrilled”.
  
  “This isn’t necessarily going to prop up an existing, faltering business model.”
  
  I can’t see that young folk., Pasifika, Asian, Maori, Pakeha, are suddently going to flock to listening/viewing NZ on Air, no matter how many journalists get trained up.
  
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  July 20, 2021 11:55am
  - nathie
    
    Yep, they will continue to listen to (or view) their own preferred, tailored sources right across the digital media spectrum!
    
    Perhaps a funding round could be allocated, in which mainstream media could apply for funding to write balanced stories in the wider public interest, always interviewing equally both sides of the story? Strictly factual, not opinionated or not advocacy journalism etc. Sort of directed to the silent majority that used to buy their product, perhaps?
    
    Wonder if the MSM would bother to apply!
    
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    July 20, 2021 12:05pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Sounds like hard work.
      So much easier to interview one of your mates.
      
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      July 20, 2021 2:20pm
Max Howler

is Normanby the new epicenter for TOW discontent? if Ihumatao was the stolen land, then Normanby will be the stolen rates (to be repaid under the table?)

https://forms.justice.govt.nz/search/Documents/pdf/jdo/a1/alfresco/service/api/node/content/workspace/SpacesStore/11acf67f-a3c8-4d98-8919-2dedba2ced88/11acf67f-a3c8-4d98-8919-2dedba2ced88.pdf

anyone who owns property in NZ cant sleep well reading this, wondering if the next occupation will begin in your front yard
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July 20, 2021 11:19am
- Ruawai
  
  The previous owner who didn’t pay his rates, he says because he was the original owner of the property he didn’t have to pay rates. This is good news for some farmers who have had property in the same family for generations and who are the original owners of the land, no more rates and eternal rights to occupy the land for them.
  
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  July 20, 2021 12:15pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The judgement seems proper and correct. The Applicant was not a party to the Treaty. He cannot re-write the laws of NZ (nor can the PM on her say so.)
  
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  July 20, 2021 1:11pm
Cobolt24

Stuff published an article by a Dr Paul Crowhurst, who is the Principal at Papatoetoe East Primary School in Auckland. The article was very critical of the “Unteach Racism” program and said it was difficult for teachers to instruct their pupils in such complex and subjective issues when it was almost impossible to teach them algebra. He says:

“We are going to miss all that we have achieved as a nation, while descending into a state of introspection that encourages people to resent one another. Young people in Aotearoa are living in a less segregated, more affluent, more culturally aware society than ever before. Our teachers should be motivating our rangatahi of all cultural backgrounds by focusing on our progress and the many reasons young people of all racial groups can realise their potential in our wonderful country.”

Which is just about the first bit of truth Stuff have published in a long time, but of course they had to spoil it. The article was published at 4 am on 14 June. Soon after, this notice appeared below the article–

“Editor’s note: In response to this column, we will be publishing a different opinion from an educator on Friday, 16 July. We’re also reviewing Stuff’s process behind publishing this article to determine if it aligns with our company charter and editorial code of practice and ethics.
https://waikanaewatch.org/2021/07/17/trouble-at-stuff-news-someone-let-some-truth-through/
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July 20, 2021 11:54am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Forget about teaching quadratic equations and other algebraic stuff at primary school. Teach basic arithmetic. Get it right. Algebra and geometry will come in Year 9. Trigonometry and calculus will come in year 12.
  Primary school teachers; attend to the little details like adding, multiplication, division and subtraction and get them drummed in and get them right. The rest will then be much easier for numerate students at secondary school.
  
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  July 20, 2021 3:46pm
MrTips

So Police Commissioner Coster doesn’t think arming cops full time is a good idea.

75% of the public on Newshub polls and the Police Association disagree.

It’s very notable Coster doesn’t offer an alternative solution. Pretty much says it all about his leadership when the last two incidents in which the cops deployed their weapons rapidly defused both situations.

Employ the guns and bolster training. We want a police FORCE, not a police mouse.
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July 20, 2021 12:06pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Can we import some Tasmanian Devils?
  
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  July 20, 2021 12:58pm
Ruawai

You couldn’t make this shit up, comedy gold on the Te Huia train ride.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/train-wreck-of-a-commute-bits-of-the-train-were-bouncing-down-the-tracks/AN62YQLDC6RYT5F4WHGN6INGJ4/
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July 20, 2021 12:13pm
Maggie Pie

We heard 1ZB reporting earlier PC Andy Costa as saying…”he’s unable to put his finger on why there is such an excalation of violence against Police”

WTF? Honestly, my partner nearly choked on his pink iced bun!
As he said….”It starts at the top. When was the last time Andy ever wielded a baton and cracked a few heads.,…or faced a West Aucland Mobster hi on P, armed with an AR and a bat-crazy girlfried egging him on? What the cops on the frontline need is a real tuff b*stard that they can all look up to and respect brother”

Just saying.
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July 20, 2021 12:28pm
- RiP NZ
  
  100% Maggie.
  My first thoughts were something along the lines having a Soy boy in charge and hiring for diversity….might have something to do with emboldening the odd crim.
  I know several ex military with overseas armed enforcement experience cant get into the NZ Police, because they aren’t ‘the type of recruit we are looking for right now’
  i.e cant play 10 Guitars.
  
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  July 20, 2021 12:50pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Exactly right RIP. As my partner said… ‘great minds think alike”
    He actually knows a Sikh guy who joined the ‘Police Service’ after working for Uber Eats. Loves it apparently.
    
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    July 20, 2021 1:49pm
    - Pharmachick
      
      Hey Maggie,
      
      did you tell your partner the rest of the saying?
      
      “Great minds think alike… but fools rarely differ”
      ?
      
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      July 20, 2021 2:16pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        LOL!!
        Can hardly wait to drop that on him nwxt time he sez it 😀
        
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        July 20, 2021 3:38pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Guitars, and have a band of 10.
    Dance dance dance to the Government!
    Hey, why did you stop singing????
    
    3 2
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    July 20, 2021 5:30pm
gorse

I see the Green party wealth tax is back, but this time all homes, including the “family home” are included. Not from the Green party thus time, but from some “intelligent” university people. Unaffordable. This tax will force people to sell their houses. What is wrong with some people? Tax, tax, tax, that’s all they know.
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July 20, 2021 1:49pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  I strongly favour a land tax – say 5-10x rates, so long as other taxes are reduced to compensate. Cheap to collect and it would work to quickly bring land values down to affordable levels (and end land-banking and individuals living in huge houses near city centres).
  
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  July 20, 2021 3:07pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Nothing will reduce housing costs except oversupply.
    
    It’s not rocket science FFS but if I want a house and you want the same house and I have more noney than you … who gets the house?
    
    7 1
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    July 20, 2021 3:24pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      If you are paying 1-2% property tax a year then property values will quickly come down (most of cost in main centres is in land).
      
      It would make land utilisation in cities more efficient too – economically active people would move closer to jobs in CBDS, and economically inactive retirees would move outward to lower taxed homes. This would reduce pressure on transport infrastructure.
      
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      July 20, 2021 4:28pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      You get the house at market value.
      But over supply is what these Labour wanks wanted to do – so many thousand in so many years – and they produce/produced sweet fuck all
      
      2 2
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      July 20, 2021 5:26pm
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    A land tax would be eminently fair, but we cannot have it in our country as we have the “special people”.
    If all New Zealanders were equal a land tax would be appealing, but Don Brash was labelled racist when he said that all New Zealanders should be equal.
    
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    July 20, 2021 3:51pm
  - Nickc2
    
    We don’t need any of this shit. Let market forces preside.
    
    2 1
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    July 20, 2021 7:19pm
- Tall Man
  
  It ain’t rocket science is it.
  
  We have a looming financial crisis and rather than look at expenditure and ways to reduce it, the typical labour response is to look for more tax.
  
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  July 20, 2021 3:34pm
- Cinematic
  
  People exist who genuinely believe tax can solve problems. It’s nothing more than legalised theft.
  
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  July 20, 2021 6:02pm
rangitoto

Cindy’s train of the future.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/train-wreck-of-a-commute-bits-of-the-train-were-bouncing-down-the-tracks/AN62YQLDC6RYT5F4WHGN6INGJ4/
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July 20, 2021 1:56pm
- greybeard
  
  “Te Huia – connecting Waikato and Auckland”.
  Well, except for the times it becomes disconnected, all by itself.
  
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  July 20, 2021 2:52pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  The article in the NZ Herald quoted some public relations lass saying that safety was their biggest concern.
  Not coupling up the wagons suggests to me that safety is a mere side issue.
  I become depressed seeing complete garbage from the mouths of derelict public relations officials published. And those silly bints (because most of them are women) will continue with this rubbish until they, the spokeswomen, are held to account.
  
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  July 20, 2021 3:58pm
- mandk
  
  I like the Huia train.
  
  It is a great metaphor for the govt:
  promising much,
  delivering little
  and totally unfit for purpose.
  
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  July 20, 2021 4:42pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The ‘steel on steel’ may be the brakes engaging after an air disconnect.
  What would I know, just having a class 5 license, and the breakaway is designed to do that.
  Did the fucking carriages run all the way back to Hamilton? Nope, the children are reporting again
  
  6 2
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  July 20, 2021 5:19pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Add to that. NZ has small rail tracks. In Alaska you get a lovely train ride because of the wide tracks …..
    Real trains in Alaska, not cheap toy trains
    
    8 2
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    July 20, 2021 5:23pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Driver: Twyford?
  
  4 1
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  July 20, 2021 6:28pm
Maggie Pie

My partner txts….

See where the Ferald reporting Goof overspent $92 mil of Ratepayers money on the America’s Cup!

Combine that with the dopey gubmint ministers getting Screwed, Blued and Tattooed…the country has come out $293,000,000 in deficit!!

Makes the extra couple of mill Jacinda slung to the Mongies, brown into insignificance.
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July 20, 2021 4:03pm
- rangitoto
  
  Send the bill to Xi Jinping and Anthony Fauci.
  
  5 2
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  July 20, 2021 6:02pm
MrTips

This is way more serious than people realise.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/07/more-than-1000-registered-doctors-and-nurses-waiting-in-new-zealand-residency-queue.html

Doctors and nurses are already leaving for Aussie. So while the system here is bleeding staff, and the corresponding overloaded remaining ones are at their wits end, this govt has completely f***** up the necessary immigration based replacement pathway.

COVID or not, our hospital system is perilously close to failing and this govt of Marxist losers could care less.
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July 20, 2021 7:46pm
- Hollyfield
  
  It’s worse than that. I know two young doctors who have been working at Auckland Hospital on work visas. They need residency to continue their training in NZ, but can’t even apply under this Government’s current rules. And if the Government decided to allow people to apply for residency today, there is such a queue of people ahead of them they decided to give up and return to the UK. They had jobs within a couple of weeks of starting to apply, and before leaving NZ. This couple were also volunteering in community groups, so are definitely assets to whichever country they live in.
  
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  July 20, 2021 9:43pm
ABS4EVA

Once Proud Melbourne
that Made Cars

Designed the First tram in the world to Turn

Made Aircraft in World War 2

and munitions etc etc etc

Was Pacific HQ WW2

NOW UNDER COMMUNIST LABOUR

Friends of Jacinda the MONGREL MOB Sponsors

gets their Trains made in CHINA

The Same Country with
2 Spy ships parked off the Coast of Australia today

THE REGION
UNDER LABOUR

WHAT A SICK and PATHETIC JOKE

Communist HQ now
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July 21, 2021 6:18pm

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