General Debate 25 July 2021

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CJames

The fightback against the maorification of everything in academia appears to have started. In the latest Listener, there is a letter to the editor from seven professors of University of Auckland boldly pointing out Maori traditional knowledge isn’t science. I do note there are no Mathmeticicians, Chemists, Physicists or Engineers among the letter writers though, probably as those subjects are still beyond the wildest fanatic’s dream of how they were part of pre-European Maori culture. Maybe Maui legends can be used to explain nuclear decay or the behaviour of rebar in concrete.
Be interesting to see what pressure the professors come under to recant or will they just be cancelled?
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July 25, 2021 8:00am
- G152
  
  And one advocate claimed that Maori have been in NZ for and I quote ‘thousands of years’.
  At best in reality and confirmed by archaeology and 14C dating almost 900 years
  
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  July 25, 2021 8:21am
  - Bob
    
    900 years???
    I understood from a recent media comment that Maori discovered the Antarctic about 1000 years ago!
    
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    July 25, 2021 10:11am
    - Manu-Rau
      
      They did, although in fairness it was by chance.
      
      During the second expedition of their space shuttle (which they invented in AD 894) they we blown off course and had to make a forced landing in Antarctica. Then a taniwha rescued them, and escorted them back to Ow Tayer Roar. That’s why we now have taniwha.
      
      Anyone who questions this is a racist.
      
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      July 25, 2021 12:25pm
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        That makes me a wacist then Wodderick . . .
        
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        July 25, 2021 2:13pm
      - Jack5
        
        I think NZ Skeptics had it right in an article back in 1994. They said calling Maori knowledge – matauranga – a science demeaned that knowledge.
        
        The idea of a separate indigenous science, practised by Maori before European settlement and passed on to their descendants, is an appealing one. The phrase “Maori science” has cropped up in school curriculum reform and in Museum of New Zealand planning documents. Courses on it have been taught at university level. The Department of Conservation has decided it is “highly relevant to future policies for science and research”. But does “Maori science” even exist?
        
        At first, this seems a silly question. After all, we know that Maori possessed a huge body of knowledge about their environment, passed on orally for generations, even if today much of it has been lost. The knowledge of how to make bird snares, process karaka berries to destroy their toxins, and differentiate dozens of different varieties of harakeke surely qualify as science.
        
        But science is more than a body of in-depth knowledge about the world. Other bodies of knowledge include history, literary theory, gardening, auto mechanics and rugby. If knowing a lot about flax is enough to make you a scientist, then so is knowing a lot about rugby. Although scientists tend to know a lot about their area of study, as astronomer Carl Sagan has said, “science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge”.
        
        The article, worth reading:
        
        https://skeptics.nz/journal/issues/32/maori-science
        
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        July 25, 2021 2:42pm
  - lifesgood
    
    I thought it was 700. That’s what my anthropolgy lecturer told me anyway.
    
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    July 25, 2021 10:40am
  - Liberty
    
    Maori only arrived about 1300s, The chinese landed some time in 1400s. The Dutch tried to land 1600s
    Apart from making some stone tools and exterminate each other. Civilization
    Didn’t move very far.
    
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    July 25, 2021 1:45pm
    - Paulus
      
      If the French had early on there would have been no Maori now.
      
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      July 25, 2021 1:52pm
    - softail 1450
      
      Liberty, it is an undeniable fact that Maori had not discovered the wheel and many waka were lost because of there not being enough bodies to drag them from the ocean at the approach of a storm.
      seeing logs going back and forward with the surf should have alerted them to the usefulness of the wheel but no, apparently not.
      
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      July 25, 2021 2:38pm
- kowtow
  
  stuff might do a feature ( possibly ) funded from one of the many grants they get from the ministry of truth villifying them and listing their names and photos .
  
  Like they did about the medical doctors who are rightly sceptical of the experimental chinese sniffles vaccinations being de facto forced on a fearful and Media Party conditioned public……
  
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  July 25, 2021 8:24am
- CaptainCompromise
  
  Funny thought I had, we get told that, for example, gender is not binary, that it is a spectrum and anyone who disagrees is a hate-speaker.
  
  But being Maori, we’re told that’s binary, you either are or you’re not, even though actual Maori ancestry is a spectrum, from a drop of Maori blood to a lot. It gets even stranger because some people who identify as Maori are told they aren’t because “They aren’t Maori enough” or they’re “not the right type of Maori”.
  
  The world is so back to front sometimes.
  
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  July 25, 2021 8:47am
  - Paulus
    
    Simon Bridges was considered not Maori enough according the the so called media girls.
    
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    July 25, 2021 1:53pm
- Master Mariner
  
  It has to fall down.
  I have a degree in (Nautical) Science where you not only have to know answers but Know the reasoning behind the answers and tested accordingly.
  Maui pulling up the North Island just does not fit this narrative.
  Dont get me started on going to Antarctica in Double hulled canoes.
  Of Interest though was the Sealers that arrived at Auckland Islands stated there was some tribes still there.? How true I dont know but feasible.
  
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  July 25, 2021 9:15am
  - Bob
    
    Maori were definitely not the ‘first’ to find NZ. Archaeological research in the lower South Island has dated human activity well Maori arrived. Tends to support the comment about sealers and reporting tribes on the Auckland Islands.
    Had the Colonial missionaries and explorers not reached NZ, then Maori would have died out as have the Auck Island inhabitants.
    
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    July 25, 2021 10:15am
  - Jack5
    
    From the Te Ara Encyclopedia of New Zealand:
    
    Investigations in 1998 and 2003 discovered ovens and middens in the dunes behind Sandy Bay on Enderby Island in the Auckland Islands. They were dated to the 13th or 14th centuries, the period when mainland New Zealand was first settled. There are no traces from later periods so it seems almost certain that settlement was short-lived.
    
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    July 25, 2021 11:13am
    - kevn
      
      @Jack5… Ship(canoe)wrecked whilst exploring maybe?
      
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      July 25, 2021 3:08pm
      - Bob
        
        Beached the damaged double hull waka on the return from discovering the Antarctica perhaps!
        
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        July 25, 2021 4:47pm
- hullkiwi
  
  It is not only the physical sciences, but also in the field of the social sciences that Maori made significant advances that white man honky has suppressed for the past 150 years (sarc//).
  
  The universities must be purged of professors and teaching staff that deny advanced Maori learning and research (sarc//).
  
  Reality. Maori Studies is anthropology and studies of historic tribal groups and how they have evolved in the 21st century. End of.
  
  I’m a qualified/chartered accountant 1980s). Two years ago an acquaintance was have to study Maori Accounting as part of her degree. What an utter nonsense.
  
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  July 25, 2021 9:53am
  - Local Miller
    
    This covers things like being a gang member running a drug rehab program but being able to scam the government out of $2.75 M and make it look like value for money.
    
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    July 25, 2021 12:04pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Interesting, a Maori Accounting module for an Accountancy Degree. Well. I am only guessing but the Lead Lecturers wouldn’t be Donna Awatere Hauta and Materia Turei would they?
    Anyway, Maori Accounting is pretty simple really, “one for you and two for me etc and any laws don’t apply to me”. Isn’t that the way it goes? /sarc
    
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    July 25, 2021 12:13pm
    - Paulus
      
      Isn’t Turei a lecturer at Canterbury University currently ?
      In what may we assume she has not been charged ?
      
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      July 25, 2021 1:56pm
  - LauraNorda
    
    [Deleted – let’s stick to facts. Mod.]
    
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    July 25, 2021 1:00pm
- JFAP
  
  The good professors are right and wrong. If they are talking about “Western Science” then, of course, they are right. But the western model of science is not the only way of knowing the world. P.S. I haven’t read their letter. Perhaps they make this distinction in it.
  
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  July 25, 2021 10:14am
  - Blackbob
    
    “Science” is the only way to understand how the world works, anything else is is not science and therefore not reality.
    
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    July 25, 2021 1:14pm
  - CJames
    
    The fact that you haven’t read the letter but feel obliged to disparage it shows you are part of the problem. They actually point out the science is universal and other civilisations made significant advances.
    
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    July 25, 2021 1:57pm
- cas
  
  The Listener is great at publishing contrary opinions. There have been some beauties lately.
  
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  July 25, 2021 10:23am
  - Jack5
    
    What’s the circulation now, CAS?
    
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    July 25, 2021 11:15am
Benedict Yu

Well this is a problem.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-vaccine-39percent-effective-in-israel-prevents-severe-illness.html

So 6 months into the vaccination programme in Israel, the vaccine is only 39 percent effective at preventing infections. The good news is that it is 90 percent effective at preventing serious illness. But to flip that around, if you are vaccinated you still have a 1 chance in 10 chance of becoming seriously ill.

It is impossible to know where this will end up. But the implied scenario is endemic covid, with the vaccines keeping a lid on the prevalence of severe illness and deaths. Probably with annual booster shots.

If the Israel trend plays out globally it makes Jacinda’s “elimination” goal even more absurd. I hope she gets daily briefings on these developments and their implications. At some stage she might want to let us know what the plan is.

I am still planning on getting the vaccine. However it’s likely efficacy compared to what we were being told even 8 weeks ago is somewhat disappointing.
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July 25, 2021 8:01am
- Thought Criminal
  
  Planning requires leadership and hard work. Not really her thing.
  
  What can she get for a hug and a frowny face?
  
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  July 25, 2021 8:09am
  - kowtow
    
    ‘What can she get for a hug and a frowny face?’
    
    Sadly , in the current environment, an absolute majority in parliament .
    
    Mind boggling.
    
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    July 25, 2021 8:27am
- Cinematic
  
  So mathematicians please. what are the chances of becoming seriously ill without the vaccine vs with the vaccine?
  
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  July 25, 2021 8:15am
  - cmm
    
    I’ll put my hand up at a mathematician. But I’ll also put my hand up for other skills too.
    
    Basically, none of these numbers are really credible because this is not a controlled experiment with one variable changing.
    
    When there are, quite literally, tens of variables in play then which should really be pegged as being the critical variable?
    
    Just pegging changes of rates on vaccine vs no vaccine is silly. Could it perhaps be something else like summer vs winter? First wave kills off more vulnerable leaving stronger people? First wave knocks them down leaving them more vulnerable to a coup de grace from a second wave? One wave was kept out of cities, the other not.
    
    It is extremely challenging to sift out what really matters and any conclusions should be viewed with skepticism.
    
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    July 25, 2021 10:23am
  - Matt Long
    
    Or from the vaccine?
    
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    July 25, 2021 12:36pm
- you reap what you sow
  
  No the problem is you have been scared out of your wits by Ardern and her propaganda.
  
  The purpose of a vaccine is to help your immune system fight the virus. Effectively it renders the virus to a heavy cold. Refer to the uk where infection rates are increasing but hospitalisations are extremely low.
  
  What Ardern is not saying is what she will do when (eventually) all New Zealanders are vaccinated. Does she open the boarders and let the virus in or shut them in perpetuity.
  
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  July 25, 2021 8:20am
  - Blackbob
    
    Hopefully she won’t be in a position by then to be making those kind of decisions!
    
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    July 25, 2021 9:23am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “Effectively it renders the virus to a heavy cold.”
    
    That is not the evidence from the UK. Vaccinated people who contract COVID typically get a slight to moderate headache and they sneeze. Sometimes a sore throat. That is not a heavy cold.
    
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    July 25, 2021 3:29pm
  - Scooter
    
    That’ll be after 2023, when hopefully she isn’t making the decision.
    
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    July 25, 2021 6:04pm
- krazykiwi
  
  with the vaccines keeping a lid on the prevalence of severe illness and deaths.
  
  I can see this narrative emerging. It is one of the only logical steps from where we are today. Another is to reverse officialdom’s demonization of non-vaccine treatments. Our knowledge of what can be done to treat Covid19 disease is an order of magnitude stronger now that 17 months ago.
  
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  July 25, 2021 8:22am
  - Charmaine Hawke
    
    We need Merck to get moving on their repackaged Ivermectin, the one with the slight change that gets it patented again. As much as I hate the concept this pharma company getting in on the endless money that is covid may be the only way we get out of this with our economy in any shape to take us forward.
    
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    July 25, 2021 9:04am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    There is a group in the UK looking at the efficacy of about 12 existing drugs against covid. The advantage of existing drugs is that their safety is already well understood. Of course it will take sometime to complete that process.
    
    Contrary to early messaging there is simply no way that the vaccines can end the pandemic. All they can do is reduce harm and, good news they can considerably reduce sickness and death, but never eliminate sickness and death.
    
    To repeat my earlier comment, I hope the PM is getting good advice. She has a chief science adviser and an entire health ministry. Indeed why doesn’t she release all the key advice she gets every week? For example it would be astonishing if she was not advised of the evidence from Israel and its implications. I commented here a while back that Israel was giving the world a service by its blistering vaccine roll out. We could watch what happened and learn. Well let’s learn and not ignore.
    
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    July 25, 2021 9:13am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      You give this govt too much credit for rationality–they work to ideology and their own belief in superiority.
      
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      July 25, 2021 9:19am
    - krazykiwi
      
      I hope the PM is getting good advice
      
      As do I, however Ardern has shown a steely determination to do what’s best for her in the first instance, and to spin the rest away.
      
      In this instance, a fearful and obedient population serves her authoritarian interests best, so charting a new path is unlikely.
      
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      July 25, 2021 9:31am
      - artemisia
        
        Actually Ms Ardern is the figurehead being relentlessly managed by the party as she is the single reason Labour has an outright majority.
        
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        July 25, 2021 10:26am
      - krazykiwi
        
        artemisia, in other words she is our Biden
        
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        July 25, 2021 2:43pm
    - Master Mariner
      
      @BY “To repeat my earlier comment, I hope the PM is getting good advice. She has a chief science adviser and an entire health ministry.”
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/125842328/pm-wants-to-stop-foreign-fishing-boats-from-changing-crews-in-new-zealand
      
      The answer to her Question is NO you cannot decline Seafarers entry into NZ for Crew Change , Provisions bunkering etc.
      
      Its obvious to me she is NOT getting good advice.
      
      On another note, The real question regarding this clusterfuck is ” Why were they allowed to crew change without a NEGATIVE test”. Ans putting existing crew at risk. Out of interest is this where Covid in brown water emerged after “busing down ” Covid infected crew?https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/125853797/covid19-has-been-detected-in-wastewater–so-what-does-that-actually-mean
      
      This is another Border cock up and narrative changed and blame shifted.
      
      https://www.imo.org/en/MediaCentre/PressBriefings/pages/41-crew-change-protocols.aspx
      So BY, You are absolutely correct , The PM either doesnt listen or “shoots” from the hip in her reactions. I’m picking a Huge disconnect in reality and selective advise. Absolute shambles.
      
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      July 25, 2021 9:57am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        The PM does not take advice, she is her own adviser.
        
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        July 25, 2021 11:56am
      - kevn
        
        @MM…. cindy makes captains calls.
        
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        July 25, 2021 3:11pm
    - kowtow
      
      ‘I hope the PM is getting good advice’
      
      Given that this country was locked down by her , literally ,on the basis of a panicked phone call from some still anonymous London acquaintance , I think there’s as much a zero chance of that as there is of zero covid or zero carbon.
      
      ps The Media Pardy still haven’t got onto the real story of that phone call …….
      
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      July 25, 2021 10:02am
      - Charmaine Hawke
        
        kowtow was there really a phone call from a panicked friend in London or a call from her benefactor in Beijing saying you better shut that border?
        
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        July 25, 2021 11:21am
      - Nickc2
        
        If they did, they’ve kept the result to themselves.
        Was Bernie Sanders taking a holiday in the UK at the time? Just asking………..
        
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        July 25, 2021 12:04pm
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        The media never found any of the thousands of letters from children asking for plastic bags to be banned.
        
        The media never etc. etc . . .
        
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        July 25, 2021 2:23pm
    - Bob
      
      With her present advisors, there is no way that Adern will be getting good advice, in health, economics or education!
      
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      July 25, 2021 10:17am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Of course it will take sometime to complete that process.
      
      Given:
      [a] The speed at which the covid vaccine was whipped up and ready to go, AND
      
      [b] The fact that the Covid vaccine was new and untested, AND
      
      [c] Existing drugs have been around for decades, AND
      
      [d] There is plenty of existing approvals, trials, history for these existing drugs, THEN…
      
      On that basis, these existing drugs should be approved for use by Monday 08.30 am.
      
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      July 25, 2021 10:36am
    - Pharmachick
      
      Yes, there’s a group at Stanford repurposing as well, and as posted the other day (not by me) the Israelis have a couple promising ones.
      
      As for de novo drug development, most major Pharma/biotech are staying mum, but you can bet [your] bottom dollar (b/c it certainly won’t be theirs) that tehey have molecule libraries in play.
      
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      July 25, 2021 12:38pm
- Simon
  
  The only real solution is to ro vax 65 yrs plus. Have the boosters ready, then isolate the vulnerable and open the country up.
  
  Natural herd immunity for the general population while the vulnerable are in isolation. This should have been the policy, (and what was accepted medical planning before CCP got the propaganda out) back in March 2020. Its the only way out. Anything else will be the decent into medical fascism. Also the very dangerous medical position arising from NZ’s isolation internationally from other diseases and illness.
  
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  July 25, 2021 8:30am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Are you going to have re-training camps for the 65+ too?
    
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    July 25, 2021 11:57am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Vaccines given their small (but not zero) risks are probably safest option down to at least 30years old, and maybe 20’s as well.
    
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    July 25, 2021 3:14pm
- Scooter
  
  Italy’s new rules around the Green Pass is that the vaccination is only valid for 9 months. So here you go, yearly shots legislated right there.
  
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  July 25, 2021 9:25am
  - Cinematic
    
    They’ll have to pull back on that time period. Increasingly looking like the vaccines benefits are fairly short lived.
    
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    July 25, 2021 9:58am
- cmm
  
  Perhaps it is really just post-Christian version of holy water?
  
  Just as religion has been replaced by the state and deities have been replaced by the leaders of the state, so too have the practices and rituals of the church been replaced by the rituals of the state.
  
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  July 25, 2021 10:25am
- Phronesis
  
  It’s a 90% reduction in risk of serious complication. So if you were 75 with a 1 in 10 chance, it reduces to 1/100. If you are 20 with a 1/100 000 chance it reduces to probably not worth getting vaccinated.
  
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  July 25, 2021 10:34am
- Rich Prick
  
  We’re all getting a taste of North Korean life, being prisoners in our own countries. The difference is we can vote our dictators out.
  
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  July 25, 2021 11:04am
  - MCos
    
    I would suggest life in NZ bears no resemblance to North Korea
    
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    July 25, 2021 2:20pm
- Pharmachick
  
  Pfizer is already adjusting the mRNA signature for the “3rd booster” re: Delta
  
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  July 25, 2021 11:48am
  - kevn
    
    @Pharma… NovaVax seemed the (almost) current best bet. A true vaccine.
    
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    July 25, 2021 3:13pm
    - MrTips
      
      ^^^THIS
      
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      July 25, 2021 4:03pm
    - Pharmachick
      
      NovaVax looks very good. I think the mRNA vaccines are good too – we don’t know length of coverage yet but likely need boosters (but we do that for flu anyway). The AAV vaccines not my cup of tea.
      
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      July 26, 2021 7:55am
  - Durden
    
    A question for you please. My undertanding is that Pfizer mRNA vaccine gets our bodies to create “only Covid spike protein”, so that the body in turm can learn to recognise it, prepare and mount defences if it appears again.
    
    When we talk about variants, are we talking about just variants of the spoke protein, or variants of the virus and its payload.
    
    Thanks in advance.
    
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    July 25, 2021 4:54pm
    - MrTips
      
      Most of the mutations that cause issues occur in the spike protein, specifically in the region known as the receptor binding domain (RBD). They cause issues because the effective antibodies your body makes bind to this RBD to neutralise/stop the spike protein binding to its receptor , called ACE-2, which the virus uses to internalise itself in your cells and hijack your genetic transcription machinery.
      
      If the virus spike mutates enough or in the right place, it can avoid your antibodies and bind ACE-2. Mutations that lead to this are known as variants of concern.
      
      However, Vir Biotechnology in the USA has found an antibody that can block spike binding to ACE-2, at a place that does not include the need for the RBD. This was bought about by a technique called deep mutational scanning which allowed this antibody to be found. It meant they could develop a therapy which should work irrespective of variants of concern in COVID. And it works- they have a product called sotrovimab which has passed Phase III trials and has been granted EUA by the FDA.
      https://investors.vir.bio/news-releases/news-release-details/gsk-and-vir-biotechnology-announce-sotrovimab-vir-7831-receives
      
      The good news is that Vir Tech can use this technique to identify antibodies that work for future variants, ie. it’s highly adaptable and able to future proof.
      
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      July 25, 2021 5:18pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        mAbs in practice have not shown to be as bomb proof in people as they are in the lab, but the deep mutational scan approach has a lot of promise. Also, care: the link is a press release and those tend toward… at the very least a “positive spin”. GSK has been very quiet on this (unusual for one of the big Pharma companies), but there is some pre-print data in Bioarxiv. They’ve put their eggs in the mAb basket with the ability to alter the signature, rather than small molecule or vax. Promising.
        
        There are also ACE2 small molecules in development that may also stop the bypass effect of the VoC as detailed by Mr Tips.
        
        As yet there are no true escape variants (those for which the vaccines just don’t work) delta is not a true escape, but we don’t know what’s coming down the pike, and data from Lambda (arose in Peru, dominant in South America) is hard to come by, but it looks horrible.
        
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        July 26, 2021 8:01am
      - Durden
        
        Thank you for the detailed response.
        
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        July 26, 2021 8:40am
- kglm
  
  There is only one possible long term outcome to the covid situation. The virus will become endemic in New Zealand (as it already is in much of the world), controlled to some extent by annual vaccinations. An “elimination” policy of pulling up the drawbridge can only ever be a short term strategy – and is likely to fail in practice anyway as outbreaks seem inevitable. Elsewhere this acceptance of an endemic virus is already starting to occur (e.g. the UK). It will become increasingly absurd and untenable to maintain our closed borders when the rest of the world opens up. In addition, Ardern will not be PM forever, and new Governments are likely to mean new policies when the world environment around this virus changes further. However, there will be a problem in getting the NZ population to accept an endemic virus. The fear factor stoked by the media and attention-seeking “experts” makes it harder to make the necessary psychological changes. No end game has yet been communicated by Government (they probably don’t have any endgame plan). Endemic-ness will come eventually, but it is likely to be a longer, harder, and more costly process than elsewhere because of clinging to the unsustainable “elimination” strategy for too long.
  
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  July 25, 2021 12:45pm
- alloytoo
  
  Luckily the Israelis are investigating the benefits of existing drugs as an additional prophylactic and treatment.
  
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  July 25, 2021 1:07pm
krazykiwi

It was the last Saturday of the month, and that means the angry (and growing) crowd of Lockdown sceptics march on major cities to make their voices heard.

In this feed:
Tokyo
France (so many locations)
Israel
UK
Italy
Ireland
Australia (Brisbane wow)
Spain
Finland (Finns protesting? Really?!?)
Spain
Greece
The Netherlands
Portugal
Canada
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July 25, 2021 8:01am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I am totally prepared for Jacinda to keep the borders closed even after everyone who wants a vaccine has received one.
  
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  July 25, 2021 8:11am
  - Simon
    
    “I am totally prepared for Jacinda to keep the borders closed”
    
    The problem with this is NZ population will not have immunity to other viruses. You see that with RSV bought in by Australian tourists in the brief window NZ opened. If you close a country it doesnt get exposed to other illnesses. When NZ does open in 3 years time the population will become very sick, the hospital system is overwhelmed and how many will die?
    
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    July 25, 2021 8:19am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Isolationist strategies are NEVER a sound practice when it comes to dealing with endemic diseases. Never. Ardern would have been told this ad nauseum, and would have ignored the advice. Her objective is to cling to to power long enough to install cornerstone elements of her neo-Marxist fantasyland. Any collateral damage is simply a cost we’ll need to bear.
      
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      July 25, 2021 9:40am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      This.
      
      I caught RSV from a weekend in Aus in May. Took about a week to kick in and then really, really nasty for about a week and then lingered for another fortnight
      
      Then my partner picked it up from me just in time for our overseas trip, again taking a week for it to develop into 2-3 weeks of near flu-like symptoms
      
      We got it picked-up when we had our tests before returning to NZ from Aus the second time
      
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      July 25, 2021 9:43am
      - kevn
        
        @Wavey… Yes, flu can be nasty. Always used to be.
        
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        July 25, 2021 3:14pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      When NZ does open in 3 years time the population will become very sick….
      
      No doubt that will be blamed on the “anti-vaxxers”. Or some new epidemic spread in churches, so churches will be closed. Or caused by eating red meat, so farmers will be blamed. Or climate change, etc, etc.
      
      I’ve no doubt the spin doctors are doing double shifts, re-watching ‘Wag the Dog’ over and over again, while sipping on Chardonnay, to give them ideas.
      
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      July 25, 2021 10:44am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      ‘how many will die?’
      
      80,000 was a stab in the dark so, any number you pick will be good . . .
      
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      July 25, 2021 2:25pm
    - MCos
      
      If we are isolated from RSV due to the quarantine situation at the borders how does it get into Oz which is similarly insulated?
      
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      July 25, 2021 2:26pm
  - Scott
    
    Benedict – I agree with you. I think covid has been very good politically for labour and they will milk it as long as they can.
    
    They believe in big government. Labour is not the party of individual responsibility and free enterprise. It will be covid and closed borders and masks on planes and contact tracing and sign in on the covid app for as long as possible.
    Am I wrong?
    
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    July 25, 2021 8:22am
    - Nickc2
      
      No, you aren’t wrong IMO. Labour have never had it made so easy for them to exerpt total control over so many peasants regardless of said peasants political leanings.
      That is what scares me about the whole situation WRT Covid-19 in NZ today.
      To speak out against the Govt will soon be classified as Hate Speech resulting in a jail term and to fail to wear a rag around your mouth and nose when Cindy says or to walk further from your house than Cindy says when she has declared an illegal lockdown can also result in a jail term whilst a self-serving portion of peasants are permitted/encouraged to establish illegal Road Blocks without even a threat of a jail term.
      GO FIGURE!
      
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      July 25, 2021 10:09am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Agreed. These matters are orthogonal. The global political fallout from all this will be interesting to follow. Most modern leaders are pretty spineless and will double-down in an attempt to save their political skins. A few true leadership heroes will emerge, those to own failures while charting a new course.
    
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    July 25, 2021 8:27am
  - CAKE FACE1
    
    Staying closed indefinitely would be an awful decision to make and be an act of self harm against New Zealand’s interests, but it would also be a very popular decision for Ms Ardern to make. Her ratings in the opinion polls would probably rise. The more draconian you are, the more the peasants like it.
    
    Consequently, I think it’s almost certain the border will stay shut. She is not intelligent at all, but I suspect that she understands the consequences of her bad decisions.
    
    I believe that her desire to be loved as some sort of saviour / messiah trumps her desire to do her job properly. She is an expert manipulator of crowds. She will want to kick the can down the road. Someone else can be responsible for hundreds, or perhaps thousands, of deaths per year…
    
    What is distressing to me is that our incompetent media do not even ask her the question.
    
    National and ACT are also collaborating with this sad state of affairs.
    
    It is like living in North Korea.
    
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    July 25, 2021 8:46am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Yeah, kill the country.
    These are tabloid times, nothing good is reported, just anxiety producers. Ardern has removed Rotorua from tourism with uncivil accommodation. Now it’s Queenstown turn.
    It’s on par with this:
    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2021/07/24/we-live-in-a-fraud-of-unprecedented-dimensions/
    
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    July 25, 2021 8:47am
- lifesgood
  
  Great to see the public finally waking up to the travesty of lock downs. Doubt the NZ sheeple will have the same guts, though.
  
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  July 25, 2021 8:26am
- artemisia
  
  “Chaotic scenes in Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Brisbane as protesters demand end to lockdowns.”
  
  Guardian yesterday,
  
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  July 25, 2021 8:28am
  - MCos
    
    Chaotic scenes in Fiji because they did nothing,
    
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    July 25, 2021 2:28pm
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Krazy you have done more than every so called journalist in NZ by putting up this link.
  Note that U tube have already started to censor these news items.
  The NZ herald can only report on a horse getting punched.
  The French will get rid of Macron, he is off at the Olympics whilst his country shows it’s disgust.
  I believe the world has had enough of all these little wannabe Hitlers and their form of freedom.
  Since the last covid death in NZ back in February, over 2700 people have succumbed to heart disease, time to get a grip on reality, not Jacinda’s nightmare socialist freedom path.
  
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  July 25, 2021 9:21am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Thanks Greg. The DailySceptics.org founders were part of the UK Free Speech Union. Their work to collate and highlight these stories is commendable. I am a financial supporter.
    
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    July 25, 2021 9:53am
  - kevn
    
    @Greg and kk… The hangover of the thousands of deferred surgeries is still evident, but hidden in plain sight.
    
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    July 25, 2021 10:42am
MrTips

On this day, a reading from the Book of Covidicus, Chapter 1:pm

1. And The Ardern spoke unto the assembled Tribe of 5: Chippy, Grunt, the Jacksonite, Ashley and the Coster.

2. “The citizen in whose skin or flesh shall arise a different colour or a blister, or as it were something shining, that is the stroke of the COVID, shall be brought to Ashley the priest, or any of his minions.

3. And if Ashley see the COVID in his skin, and the citizens hair turned white and the place where the COVID appears lower than the skin and the rest of the flesh: it is the stroke of the COVID and upon Ashleys judgment, the citizen shall be separated.

4. But if there be a shining whiteness in the skin, and not lower than the other flesh, and the hair be of the former colour, the Ashley & Coster shall shut him up seven days.

5. And on the seventh day the Ashley & Coster shall look on him: and if the COVID be grown no farther, and hath not spread itself in the skin, they shall shut him up again another seven days, with the Wiles for good measure.

6. And on the next seventh day, they shall look on the citizen. If they be non-Unionite, they shall be declare unclean, because they be but a scab: and the Little shall mess his clothes, and they shall be declared publicly unclean by Mutch as well.

7. But, if the COVID grow again, after he was seen by the Ashley and restored to nonMIQ, they shall be brought unto Me:

8. And they shall be condemned of uncleanness and cast into the Oblivion of Frown. And there shall be soundbite and kindness, and the cup shall overflow with the 1pm worm that shall not die.

9. If the stroke of the COVID be a Act-ion, he shall be brought to the Jacksonite:

10. And the Jacksonite shall view him. And when there shall be a white colour in the skin, and it shall have changed the look of the hair, like the Rimmer, and the living flesh itself shall appear:

11. It shall be judged an inveterate Racist!, and grown all into the skin. The Jacksonite therefore shall declare him unclean: and shall shut him up, because he is evidently unclean and not a believer of RNZ or TVNZ.

12. But if the Racist! spring out running about in the skin, and cover all the skin from the head to the feet, whatsoever falleth under the sight of the eyes, he shall be declared the NationalVoter:

13. They shall view him, and shall judge that the NationalVoter which he has become is very unclean: because it is all turned into whiteness, and therefore the citizen shall be Cancelled by the Media-ite.”

14. It is I who demand this, says the Ardern. In the name of the Truth, the whole Truth and the One Source of Truth. Amen.
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July 25, 2021 8:08am
- krazykiwi
  
  Love it.
  
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  July 25, 2021 9:33am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I await Revelations 22:13:
  
  We’ve got α; ω yet to be revealed.
  
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  July 25, 2021 9:45am
- Ruahine
  
  Interesting comment from Neil Oliver.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTkWd_3mAXQ
  
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  July 25, 2021 1:45pm
  - kevn
    
    @Ruahine…Strong message. Listen up NZ sheeples
    
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    July 25, 2021 3:26pm
- curry4me
  
  MrTips: Fantastic. I’ll add it to my FB page.
  
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  July 25, 2021 2:59pm
CJames

From a Steve Koonin Robert Bryce interview discussing why zero carbon will cause major grid troubles. “And to go back to your earlier point, who’s in government, it’s not engineers, it’s lawyers why are there so many lawyers. Because they couldn’t do the math to get into engineering school.
Sums up the NZ political situation.
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July 25, 2021 8:17am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  My experience in engineering school was that the dropouts went into business management. Those of us that became engineers ended up working for them.
  
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  July 25, 2021 8:55am
  - CJames
    
    As Dilbert regularly shows, business managers don’t “manage” engineers. Herding cats is easier than controlling independent thought. Most of the engineers I know and work with are in some form of trouble for going against HR directives or policies.
    
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    July 25, 2021 10:30am
    - Jack5
      
      To add to C. James’s point: … and the maths for engineers is pretty basic.
      
      “Vegie maths” was the nickname for it at Canterbury back in the day.
      
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      July 25, 2021 11:26am
      - CJames
        
        Engineers have got around that issue of not doing hard maths Jack. They now have a degree Engineering Science, which is the high powered maths. Needed for modelling and the like. Though MATLAB has done away with a lot of the complication,s at least in the stuff most engineers are interested in. .
        Anyway, most engineers know that if you have hard calcs to do, give them to the most recent graduate. They are invariably the only ones who can remember enough (or still have their textbooks) to do the formula manipulation.
        
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        July 25, 2021 5:33pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  In 20 years time the grid will be largely gone. Electricity will be created in situ as needed. Even small batteries, it seems likely, will be printed as integrated circuits chips are now.
  
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  July 25, 2021 9:26am
  - CJames
    
    If you believe that Kev, you must be a lawyer. About half of the world’s grid electricity is used in motors. Most of those motors drive pumps and those pumps move water. Those motor pump sets are typically 85-90% efficient. Now how do you think miniaturisation will help getting the millions of gallons around the country?
    There are so many people around that think the laws of physics can be ignored or invented away. That is what comes from not enough people having a good STEM grounding. Why the Asian countries are going forward and we reverting to gesture management.
    
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    July 25, 2021 10:16am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Pump sizes will follow the needs. The electricity to power them is seemingly increasingly likely to be provided on site. What better, pump and generator in one unit.
      
      In the last 12 months the way to produce cold fusion has been truly discovered and proven–NASA has now got a patent.
      It eventually proved to be simple: requiring hydrogen, a metallic catalyst, a small plasma and a tiny pulsed electric current through the plasma. That last step did it. The hydrogen can be supplied in a variety of forms including water. Radiation is not a problem. The action is at the sub-atomic state level where some transitions occur releasing the energy.
      
      The output is typically heat which can be converted into electricity. Some are attempting to collect electrons directly from the plasma but that awaits more work for general use.
      
      Commercial likelihood is very high. I have a proven nose for picking significant inventions and new products and have been following this excess energy thread for 10 years. I see no conflict with physics. Rules change to fit the findings as reality is not fraud and requires an answer. When the US Government via NASA certifies it’s OK that’s a reasonable go ahead. The theories can be argued later, we need the green energy now.
      (My early training was 4 years of engineering maths. Accounting & law came later.)
      
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      July 25, 2021 12:32pm
      - Local Miller
        
        Ko’B, without a reference everything you are saying can be taken as BS. If you want to be taken seriously back up what you claim. So I’ve done your work for you. https://www1.grc.nasa.gov/space/science/lattice-confinement-fusion/
        Yes, NASA has “working” fusion however, it is a long way from being practical or being scalable. Having read the article I would say 20 years form the grid to go is very optimistic.
        
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        July 25, 2021 1:51pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Interested in seeing links to recent results if you can provide them. Nullius in Verba.
        
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        July 25, 2021 3:11pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        Kev there is no doubt that ‘future’ technology already exists, but not in the public sector. You can have 100% certainty that such technology exits, it is just a question of how much resides on planet earth.
        
        I’m all in favour of a Star Trek Federation future, where energy, transportation, and technology is in abundance. And where the heroes are Picard, Janeway, and Dylan Hunt. What we need right now, is not so much the evolution of technology, but the evolution of mankind itself. Otherwise we will not evolve to the level of responsibility required for that Star Trek type future to happen.
        
        In this country, any form of progress is stifled by the socialist Shape Shifters in power, who among other things, are trying to redistribute wealth into the hands of the Dominion like power elite, while at the same time pushing NZ back to a brutal tribal existence not too dissimilar to the Klingon Empire.
        
        We are the Borg. Resistance is futile. You will be vaccinated.
        
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        July 25, 2021 3:44pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        I’ve given enough references previously. The main contender at present is probably https://brilliantlightpower.com
        
        I believe Mitsubishi was actively involved too..
        The significant thing is this nut has been cracked. The commercial interests will follow naturally.
        
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        July 25, 2021 5:42pm
- Nickc2
  
  There’s also some teachers in there who couldn’t teach mathematics. That’s probably why we have a shortage of Engineers?
  
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  July 25, 2021 10:37am
  - CJames
    
    To do engineering, you have to have done the hard maths (not cabbage maths) and physics right through secondary school. You would find it near impossible to pick it up later. Most kids drop maths as soon as they can in search of easy credits.
    The problem isn’t really poor maths skills. It is there are very few physics teachers, especially ones who did it as their degree major. Without a good understanding of physics, you have very little chance of understanding real world science. And that is why we have so decisionmakers that are clueless.
    
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    July 25, 2021 5:41pm
Yvette

Imagine Aotearoa without good water – what a stink-as place that would be
but it may not be as stink-as something else!

As raised yesterday, and perhaps deserving of a little more exposure …
Speaking of the $2.5 allocated to “involve” city councils to commit to “3 Waters”, Westland Mayor Bruce Smith in a video says –

My Westland District Council was to receive $11 million which we were advised could be used for any project that would assist the district – so not [confined] to 3 Waters. Its stated objective was to ensure the Councils were no worse of after their three waters functions and assets were removed. Nothing was mentioned about strings attached, by the Prime Minister in her speech … On the second day of the conference we were informed that the money would become available in July 2024. It could be spent on projects that had to be consulted and approved by iwi, and was not confined to 3 Waters. – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtF06mO5ItM

If correct – “incentive” projects require consultation and approval by iwi – does that not give iwi veto over the $2.5 billion that Ardern has set-up to coerce councils’ compliance, so does that give Maori say-so on roughly $260 million more than the total 73 iwi Treaty Settlements that have to date (as of August 2018) been finalised to the value of $2.24 billion?

Or as a commentor yesterday asked –
What Vote Item are the payments to be disbursed from. Maori don’t have say over how Public Money is spent. Nor does the PM.

Perhaps this is similar to the Government purchasing Ihumatao illegally, until a correction through Parliament, but still leaving housing funds for Maori to decide – to build a few houses, or none, and set the rest aside as heritage park? Or Shane Jones’s pork-barrel $3 billion fund, but again with constraint that Maori veto.

But should this question just remain here on kiwiblog – dead in the water, so to speak – or should someone like Judith Collins Demand it be Debated?
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July 25, 2021 8:20am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Judith needs to go beyond that. This govt must be cancelled immediately. They have no mandate but deceit.
  Time for the people to rise up.
  
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  July 25, 2021 9:28am
- Tony Stuart
  
  The more people who see that video, the better. Local councils are being bought off, with promises of cash to pay for “nice to have” items that having nothing to do with water.
  
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  July 25, 2021 9:31am
  - Souvlaki
    
    Yes Tony…indeed a MUST watch.
    I have disseminated it widely…..urging people to spend a few minutes to view it. 3 waters as presented is APPALLING.
    Thanks Yvette for posting it 🙂
    
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    July 25, 2021 10:42am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      It’s sixteen minutes long, so I’ve been telling people to make themselves a cuppa and watch with interest and concern.
      
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      July 25, 2021 12:04pm
- DeepBlue
  
  ‘What vote item? Answer: None.
  
  It doesn’t get paid out until 2024 (after the next election so watch the bribe change) and it is coming out of the 160B loan to fix the waters. So just giving borrowed money back to the asset owners they have confiscated the assets from.
  
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  July 25, 2021 10:07am
- Nickc2
  
  There MUST be a public outcry against this or it will become another lump under Cindy’s office carpet and we know what else is under there and what’s happened. NOTHING!! Even the Courts turn a blind eye FFS.
  
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  July 25, 2021 10:46am
Paulus

Pleased to see that a good alternative has been found for the not needed Erebus Memorial in a dedicated park at Western Springs.
This appears to have good deal of intelligent support from those more closely involved.
But wait the Leading Lady for the Government Department in this has made it quite clear,
– It will carry on as they want anyway.
Why do we now employ such silly bints who will not listen, because she says so.
Getting worse !
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July 25, 2021 8:28am
- Yvette
  
  “We are aware of an area adjacent to MOTAT being suggested as an alternative location. Changing the Memorial location would not be simple or straightforward. It could potentially take years and add additional cost to the taxpayer.
  “We don’t want the Erebus whānau to wait any longer. The site in Dove-Myer Robinson Park is the best location for the Erebus Memorial, from the options that were initially considered. It meets clear preferences held by the Erebus families.
  “A thorough and rigorous process was followed, including extensive consultation with family and iwi, and all the regulatory approvals are in place. Manatū Taonga will proceed with construction as soon as possible.”
  The Working Group is hosting an open day on Sunday from 10am – 4pm at the proposed site of 200 Meola Road where it will share the memorial plans and get feedback from the community.
  – Ministry for Culture and Heritage’s deputy chief executive for delivery Tamsin Evans
  
  The Mt Erebus disaster occurred in 1979 – about 42 years ago, so what is the great urgency?
  They seem to be able to take their time over Ihumātao
  
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  July 25, 2021 9:37am
  - Fletch
    
    And why can’t they make it something beautiful, instead of this “bridge to nowhere” design? New Zealand designers have no idea of aesthetics. Just look at our always-horrid Olympic uniforms and Air NZ uniforms, etc.
    
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    July 25, 2021 10:51am
Scooter

Italy has now brought in the restrictions with the “Green Pass” (after France’s more strict one) whereas Italy is indoor restaurants only and not public transport yet, but still gyms, museums, concerts. Also for children from 12 years and over. Freedom at a price.
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July 25, 2021 8:52am
krazykiwi

The freshly invigorated megalomaniacs of UK politics have their eyes set on a Chinese-style social credit system

have to admit that I didn’t quite get it right when, 12 days ago, I wrote: ‘There is a model for what will be coming our way if we do not resist vaccination passports and electronic ID cards: China’s social credit system, which blacklists people for numerous antisocial offences, from crossing the street on a red light to failing to sort their recycling, and uses the information to deny them the right, for example, to buy rail and airline tickets.’

I had in mind that it would take two to five years for a vaccination passport scheme to morph into a Chinese-style social credit system. In fact, it took two weeks. This morning it was reported that the government is planning to introduce a health app in January which will monitor our shopping, our exercise levels, or intake of fruit and vegetables – and reward us with virtue points which we can exchange for discounts, free tickets (to what kind of event is not clear) and other goodies. Capita and Serco – the usual beneficiaries of demented government schemes – are reported to be bidding for the chance to run it.

This stuff is truly evil. Everyone should resist.
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July 25, 2021 9:07am
Tony

For those of you interested in metaphysics, I have a question:

Does one need to be conscious of their consciousness in order to be conscious?

My argument is yes. That is because the term “consciousness” implies a consciousness of consciousness. If that were not the case, the term “consciousness” would never have arisen in the first place.

When we consider whether, for instance, our cat is conscious, that is just an attribution we make about the cat because we are aware of being consciousness ourselves.

Therefore, consciousness requires a knowledge of consciousness in order to exist.
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July 25, 2021 9:19am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Is a fetus conscious?
  
  Is a 3-day old baby conscious?
  
  There are medical scales of consciousness…
  https://www.verywellhealth.com/level-of-consciousness-1132154
  
  A cat is conscious of its surroundings and threats and has awareness when it is sick or hurt.
  
  An earthworm is aware of being in the dark/light and dry/wet conditions ..and they always react if my spade chops them in half.
  
  Now, if you had asked whether a tree is conscious….
  
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  July 25, 2021 10:00am
  - Tony
    
    But all of this only because we are conscious of the state of consciousness…..
    
    I will grant you awareness. But does awareness require a mental world? For instance, is a burglar alarm conscious because it becomes aware of the presence of an intruder?
    
    Hence my argument stands.
    
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    July 25, 2021 10:03am
- hullkiwi
  
  Careful Tony, so many big words beginning with “c” in one post, you’ll get the woke worried that you have an ulterior motive and are trying to hide something like they do. Or you are just using complex questions to fool the dim-witted.
  
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  July 25, 2021 10:17am
- Local Miller
  
  The use of “self aware” may help. The be “conscious of your consciousness” is to be truely self aware. Not just aware of your environment, but also of your presence in and impact on that environment.
  
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  July 25, 2021 1:58pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    More important than the physical environment, is the consciousness environment, the collective unconscious being part of that. And that requires awareness of self, both light and dark, and ego and shadow.
    
    Something the socialists in control sadly lack. Socialists know about ‘wrongness’ and ‘injustice’ all around them (or what they perceive is wrong and unjust). Yet with no awareness of self, their solutions are unjust and wrong.
    
    They perceive for example that a starving child is the fault and lack of responsibility of everyone except the uncaring financially mismanaging parents on debilitating social welfare. So they reward the parents with more debilitation in the form of more social welfare, thereby compounding the problem.
    
    As per that line in a David Bowie song, “Putting out the fire with gasoline”.
    
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    July 25, 2021 4:02pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjMXxO7cW9o

Naftali BENNETT: ISRAEL’s new LEADER who wants to annex THE WEST BANK – VisualPolitik EN.

The era of King Bibi seems to have finally come to an end. For almost 25 years, Benjamin Netanyahu dominated Israeli politics and led some of the most important changes in the history of the Hebrew country. Netanyahu nurtured Israel’s economic take-off, technological revolution and openness to the world, including the important Abraham Accords that ended the long confrontation between the Arab powers and the Hebrew state. Now a diverse coalition of eight parties has taken the reins of the country. At the head of the government is Naftali Bennett, a former Netanyahu ally and ideologically to the right of the former Prime Minister. What could Bennett’s coming to power mean for Israel and the Middle East? In this video we tell you all the details.
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July 25, 2021 9:29am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63uD_gPB3uc

Viktor Orbán announces referendum on anti-LGBT law.

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán has pushed through controversial laws designed to restrict what he calls ‘homosexual propaganda’ in a move supporters say will protect family values. Mr Orbán’s new law and a referendum designed to confirm it have put him at odds with the European Union. Mr Orbán is facing a parliamentary election next year and while some believe the move will stunt his election prospects the Prime Minister claims he is at his best when fighting an enemy.
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July 25, 2021 9:29am
Tony Stuart

The Taxpayers’ Union tweets:

Taxpayers’ Union @TaxpayersUnion
It’s been a rough year for taxpayers, but a great one for @TheSpinoffTV

Look how much taxpayer money they’ve raked in from @NZonAir

https://twitter.com/TaxpayersUnion/status/1418796583999590400

The NZTU raises a very good question; why are taxpayers, via NZ On Air, having to fund a blog which leans strongly to the Left?
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July 25, 2021 9:35am
- krazykiwi
  
  Why? Because there are no checks and balances. Ministries now routinely do what the dictatorial minister-in-charge directs. Syphoning public money for party gain is a hallmark of Labour’s MO.
  
  So, any ideal what National proposes to fix this? Genuine question.
  
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  July 25, 2021 9:50am
  - cmm
    
    I disagree. There are checks and balances.
    
    Just checks and balances that favour the “correct” outcome.
    
    Is it really that the ministers need to dictate? The ministries themselves are staffed by “correct” thinking people who ensure that the “correctness” continues. They are self-dictating.
    
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    July 25, 2021 11:11am
    - Nickc2
      
      Talk to Mike King about checks and balances that ensure the right outcome. I’m pretty sure he’ll give you a mouth full about the Ministry of Health.
      
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      July 25, 2021 12:29pm
      - cmm
        
        If the government had got involved with Red Gumboots, I’ll bet they would have insisted on “helping” and ended up screwing everything up.
        
        Far better for people to help fund this out of their own pockets an keep the government out of it.
        
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        July 25, 2021 5:06pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

As I’ve always suspected….Britney Spears bites her fingernails!
🙁

https://instagram.com/p/CRsKtxOgtcF/
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July 25, 2021 9:55am
Maggy Wassilieff

Political kindness at work:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/da-vincis-italian-restaurant-closes-due-to-city-rail-link-works/FQHFDJKAH3FJ46KC4A6T6DLVKA/
18 1
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July 25, 2021 10:05am
Maggie Pie

Despite being shown the arse-card out of Australia, the fab ‘Katie Hopkins’ still collects a cool quarter mill due to the ‘pay or play’ provision in her contract!

Tell me again how she isn’t one of the smartest Blondes on the planet 😛

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1418763469650898955
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July 25, 2021 10:16am
- Tall Man
  
  Good for her.
  
  Stick it to the wokesters.
  
  7 0
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  July 25, 2021 2:23pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Can anyone explain why the Government suspended
immigration applications and why work on residency applications is still paused?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/125796584/skilled-migrants-are-leaving-in-droves-frustrated-by-lengthy-residency-delays
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July 25, 2021 10:20am
- Hollyfield
  
  I know two doctors who left last week. They were on work visas and couldn’t even apply for residency, and without residency couldn’t continue training in NZ. So have returned to the UK.
  
  20 1
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  July 25, 2021 10:28am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Wrong constituency?
    
    11 0
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    July 25, 2021 11:39am
    - Tall Man
      
      Which way did they face when they prayed?
      
      0 0
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      July 25, 2021 2:22pm
  - Boutique Avo Orchard
    
    That is actually very sad. We always need Doctors and yet the system has let them down. Cant blame them fir leaving really but what a wasted opportunity for NZ. Perhaps send their names to the PM as evidence and ask her wht we let these people go?
    
    0 0
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    July 25, 2021 5:28pm
- Jack5
  
  The buck stops at the Minister in charge. Faafoi is Minister of Immigration and Twyford is the Associate Minister. To add their IQs together you definitely won’t need a calculator.
  
  Here Faafoi is on extending essential skills visas, but this appears to be for new ones:
  
  https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/extended-essential-skills-visas-being-rolled-out
  
  AND
  
  Here is Faafoi on working holiday visas and seasonal workers, but adding: “Essential Skills work visas will not be extended again.”
  
  https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/visa-extensions-provide-certainty-employers-and-10000-visa-holders
  
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  July 25, 2021 12:03pm
Maggie Pie

NewsTalkZB host Tim Beverage agrees with Texter that……
$17 million Lotto Powerball Prize going to a single winner is ‘unfair’.

Wokester suggests it would be far more equitable if everyone in New Zealand got up this morning to find an additional $3.09c in their bank account.

SHEESH!!!
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July 25, 2021 10:42am
- artemisia
  
  Stimulus payment. All those $3.09s will get spent in a week. $17mill not so much.
  
  8 0
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  July 25, 2021 11:03am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Socialists. Always want something free, even $3.09c
  
  8 0
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  July 25, 2021 1:05pm
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Yep, with the bonus of not having to invest some $ in a ticket. Win win!
    
    2 0
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    July 25, 2021 2:35pm
- cmm
  
  Wait until the punters realise that they each have to put in $10 and then each get out $3 and they will see what a dopey proposition “fair” Lotto would be.
  
  The only reason put in $10 for an expected return of $3 is that the rest of the “value” is made up by the hope of winning big.
  
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  July 25, 2021 1:40pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Those who can afford a ticket buy it so that everyone can have $3.09c. No prizes. They can call it what they want, but it is redistribution of rich to poor, ie Socialism
    
    7 0
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    July 25, 2021 2:36pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Most of our friends wouldn’t get out of bed for less than a mill.
    One of the girls from tennis won 500k in First Division last year and just left it as a credit in her MyLotto account.
    
    3 2
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    July 25, 2021 2:53pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, envy appears to be the new normal in the land of the No8 wire.
  
  3 0
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  July 25, 2021 2:25pm
  - cmm
    
    Greedy bastard with No 8 wire. You do realise that 8 people could have had No 1 wire!
    
    5 0
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    July 25, 2021 5:08pm
- Boutique Avo Orchard
  
  Durhhhh on the texter. That is why its called a lottery!!!
  
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  July 25, 2021 5:30pm
oldfella

You know all that extreme heat the UK has had recently? Climate change running riot. The planet burning up. Hotter than in the last million (/s) years! Well, maybe it’s not so hot after all, but why let facts get in the way of climate change hysteria.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgPstvxEeSU&ab_channel=TonyHeller
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July 25, 2021 11:18am
CAKE FACE1

I watched the anti-lockdown riots in Oz, and find them inspirational.

I’ve realised that it’s completely shameful being born a New Zealander. I’m forced to be part of the repugnant “team of five million sheep”, hiding under our beds, and full of fear.

I want no part of this nonsense. The biggest risk is not to take any risk.

I may need to do a runner. Alas, family considerations make me endure this open air prison…
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July 25, 2021 11:28am
- Inandout
  
  CAKE: just bide your time, the financial debt mountain is about to descend. It won’t be pretty but sometimes you have to endure pain to develop a tougher character. The hopeless ones will remain at the bottom, as usual.
  
  2 0
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  July 25, 2021 2:23pm
- doggone7
  
  The only ones thinking they need to hide under their beds full of fear are the unstable and melodramatic.
  
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  July 25, 2021 2:46pm
Maggie Pie

A bestie retweets… 😀

‘PM snapped standing in pouring rain at Hunters Cnr’

https://twitter.com/WendyWings/status/1418827633123635205
7 1
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July 25, 2021 11:40am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, Hunters Corner was once a tidy little shopping centre, then sank into Hookersville and now Jacinda’s presence has given the area another name.
  
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  July 25, 2021 2:18pm
Ra Henare

and now for some good news.

In MIQ Grand Millennium Auckland.
The food is awesome!
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July 25, 2021 11:40am
Steve Todd

Here’s a very informative article about TV3 newsreader, Oriini Kaipara.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/300355394/newshubs-oriini-kaipara-on-te-reo-tv-and-racism-in-new-zealand

What an impressive lady.
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July 25, 2021 11:43am
Cobolt24

Now, I’m not one who goes on $1uff anymore but I saw it linked elsewhere and thought it was worth reading: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/300363065/the-reserve-bank-is-in-disarray
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July 25, 2021 12:00pm
- chukar
  
  Thanks for the link.
  Many many of us have been very concerned by the RB s refusal to accept that inflation was actually happening,and that much of it was largely created by the RB actions.
  Given that usually there is a lag in measuring actual inflation it is likely the annual figure will be even higher than the 5:3 you mention.
  I hope I am wrong.
  
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  July 25, 2021 2:54pm
wreck1080

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/rest-home-complaints-unexplained-bruising-leg-fractures-bad-food-and-cockroaches/WGMKP4INHVYQVCRFTBSEESIHYA/

People shouldn’t complain too much about rest home care without looking in further detail. My partner worked in one for 3 months or so, and understaffing was bad. Families want luxury care but don’t want to pay for it.

Could a kiwiblog reader care to explain how a nurse is supposed to find to write 40 sets of patient notes at the end of a night shift, and at the same time attend to patients, many of whom are near end of life with all the associated medical issues. Add to that, $20/hour zero hour contract with no sick pay or holiday pay. At least zero hour contracts have since been banned. Next time you see a retirement home boss talking about profits in the media, give a brief thought to the way they treat their staff.
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July 25, 2021 12:25pm
chukar

Anyone see Andrea Vance on Stuff about Groundswell.?
Apparently this latest weather event is farmers fault because of agricultures emissions!
And apparently deserved for daring to howl.

Is Vance just a nom de plume for the prime minister?
I bet she would howl, if given even a part of the kicking agriculture and its friends have been given by a government.
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July 25, 2021 1:18pm
- Gravelroad
  
  @chukar-
  I am amazed at the huge number of people in NZ who are experts on agriculture.
  But it is the few who produce anything.
  Farmers are to blame for what the government and the urban elites say they are to blame for.
  OK?
  
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  July 25, 2021 3:36pm
Nickc2

If Duncan Webb is the best Cindy can punt up to obfuscate for her signed-off contribution to the Mongrel Mob of $2.75m she is scraping the bottom of the barrel. Webb’s only claim to fame is he is a Lawer and a Socialist. That’s going to act well for her, isn’t it?
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/the-meth-problem-is-massive-it-s-very-hard-to-crack-labour-mp-on-mob-rehab-scheme/ar-AAMwBJZ?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
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July 25, 2021 1:49pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  But our PM has told us that the Mongrel Mob meth program is successful.
  No need to question things further.
  
  “Labour have been quick to claim that the pilot programme of the Mongrel Mob meth rehab programme had a ‘100 per cent success rate’. Michael Wood, for example, repeated this claim numerous times on today’s AM Show.
  
  https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2107/S00172/how-did-ardern-determine-the-success-of-mob-pilot.htm
  
  12 0
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  July 25, 2021 2:00pm
  - Nickc2
    
    If Michael Wood told me it was raining, I’d have to check for myself Maggy.
    
    8 0
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    July 25, 2021 2:22pm
  - kevn
    
    @Maggy… I wonder who the solo rehab bod was. Easy to 100% success with one handpicked.
    
    5 0
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    July 25, 2021 3:33pm
  - Hollyfield
    
    I find it hard to believe any rehab programme of any kind has a “100 per cent success rate”. People, being people, are fallible and even with the best of intentions not everyone succeeds.
    
    I’d find it more believable if they said 80%, or 90% or 98%. But 100%? Doesn’t seem likely.
    
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    July 25, 2021 3:53pm
    - graham
      
      According to the story, it was a pilot program, and the Hard2Reach website “claims that all ten of the participants passed drug tests during the programme” – but as the story then proceeds to point out, there is no reference at all to any follow up assessment.
      
      I would also add that the more cynical of us might point out that if you tell the participants (all ten of them), “By the way guys, you’re going to have a drug test sometime in the next 48 hours” then it’s not too hard for them to stay clean for that period of time.
      
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      July 25, 2021 5:15pm
Inandout

‘Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer has been stripped of her emergency powers, which many believe she abused throughout the pandemic.
The Unlock Michigan initiative was approved by the State Senate on July 15 and passed by the House on Thursday’.

In our so called democracy we have no recourse to rein in our ‘leaders’, they can pretty much do as they wish.
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July 25, 2021 2:09pm
Durden

It crazy that WCC thinks bulldozing the sand will be enough to stop flooding at Owhiro Bay. Surely a longish storm can move and re-deposit that sand easily and recreate that ramp? Looking at the video, it suggests a seawall need to be built there. And the same at the couple of other points of vulnerability that were in the news recently.

Why can’t WCC see this and priortise spending money on sections of seawall instead of completely useless redoing of perfectly serviceable kerbs and footpaths all over the city.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/125857062/bulldozers-ready-to-solve-whiro-bay-wave-issue–even-without-consent
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July 25, 2021 3:16pm
- greybeard
  
  Same thing happens here at Waikanae Beach: every so often the Regional Council + KCDC sends in a couple of expensive diggers and dozers to “re-align” the Waimeha Stream. This stream is actually a man-made channel which drains some of the swampland between the dunes and the old main road.
  Tides and winds act to direct the course of the stream, but this is not to the councils’ liking so at great ratepayer expense they do their regular King Canute act.
  Useless.
  
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  July 25, 2021 4:01pm
Than

Buy Now, Pay Later loans.

This is not exactly a new issue. People taking out loans which they probably shouldn’t is a thing that’s been around forever. It’s something that there really isn’t a good solution to, in large part because the people harmed by it are very willing participants. Attempting to regulate lenders too heavily simply results in the lenders moving outside the system and lending illegally.

But my main question here is, why isn’t this already covered by existing rules around short term loans? It’s transparently just a new name slapped on a old idea, so shouldn’t existing regulations (imperfect as they are) already apply?

If not, whatever nonsense loophole let’s these “credit products” (please, like these parasites actually produce anything) escape existing regulations needs to be looked at. Both to make sure Buy Now, Pay Later loans explicitly are covered by existing rules around short-term lending, and to attempt to stop similar BS semantic games by short-term lenders in future.
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July 25, 2021 4:35pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

OK.
You comply because you want it to end.
But it is because of your compliance, it will never end.
SOCIALIST FUCKING CONTROL.
Enter batman in 3, 2, 1 …. May as well invite macs and other lefties.
Wtf are Mike and Stupid boy?
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July 25, 2021 4:48pm
AitchW

Please, please, please can the uptick and downtick buttons be either enlarged or moved further apart? It’s far too easy to hit the wrong button on an iPad! Especially when one has fat sausages for fingers…..
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July 25, 2021 6:22pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING NOW

I know it’s late to be posting on GD, but my partner said….. here’s a question that’s got him scratching his nuts.

“Why would the Kaianga Ora Community Housing Trust pay $18.5 mill for 4 dumps in Christchurch, with a combined valuation of just $2.4 mullion?

OK – he knows it’s only taxpayers money, but WTF??

https://twitter.com/_ROARNZ/status/1419177835969748995
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July 25, 2021 7:14pm

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