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August 19, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 19 August 2021

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General Debate

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krazykiwi

In the last 18 months the world has learned a huge amount about Covid-19. Many assumptions have been confirmed while others have been disproven, and new discoveries have been made thereby informing new ways forward. For example, we learned: –

♦ That vaccines provide diminishing protection from infection over time, that they fall short of being the promised silver bullet, that they do deliver reduced disease seriousness and death, and that they do not stop disease transmission.

♦ That eradication strategies have failed, and the SARS-CoV-2 virus and its subsequent variants will become globally endemic.

♦ That lockdowns cause significant societal damage, the net costs of which will be borne by future generations. This includes increased cancer, COPD, mental illness, suicide, suppressed child development, and more poverty for the already impoverished.

♦ That lockdowns do not control the virus

♦ That the Covid-19 mortality curve closely reflects the normal, non-Covid-19 mortality curve

♦ That obesity and anxiety are two of the most significant factors leading to deaths

♦ That existing, often off-patent (and therefore very low cost) pharmaceuticals are available for both prophylaxis and all stages of treatment.

♦ That late stage Covid-19 is characterized by a hyper-inflammatory response, rather than respiratory failure, so don’t intubate patients to death.

♦ That the global IFR is 0.20% for the general population, and 0.04% for those under 70 years of age making this pandemic comparable to a bad influenza season.

♦ That previously liberal, social democracies have seen their leaders use the pandemic as a pretext to grant themselves significant, often unconstrained powers as the expense of civil liberties that most Westerners have previously assumed to be a human right.

And so on.

So after literally millions of data-points, thousands of peer-reviewed studies, and 24×7 opportunities to assess cause and effect by analyzing the responses of foreign states, how as this informed the Ardern government’s strategy?

Bluntly, it hasn’t.

We have spent 18 months sitting idly in our South Seas bunker while awash with evidence-based guidance on what we should have focused on. For example, a newly endemic disease is always going to permeate our borders resulting in increased demand for healthcare services, yet we demonized non-vaccine treatment protocols, we have screwed up distribution of the experimental vaccines, we have failed to significantly grow our ICU capacity, and we have signaled to our front-line nurses that we don’t value them.

When we learned that the EUA approved vaccines would not prevent infection, it should have become immediately clear that a Covid Zero eradication strategy was never going to work, and therefore the exclusive focus on, and cost of a technically deficient MIQ was pointless. We should have immediately switched to strategies that build up our healthcare capabilities and protect the most vulnerable.

So here we are, 18 months later and awash with valuable insights, yet the best we can manage is to implement a socially and economically destructive lockdown strategy that is identical to our 18-month-old knee-jerk reaction.

Economist John Maynard Keynes once said: –

“When the facts change, I change my mind – what do you do, sir?”

It is pertinent challenge. We need political leadership with the intestinal fortitude to admit we must change direction.
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August 19, 2021 8:00am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Good comment.
  
  Regular readers will recall me stating that the vaccines would end the pandemic. That was based on early claims that the vaccine was 95 percent effective. Fortunately I change my views based on evidence. I don’t see any evidence of such reflection by the PM. I hope she proves me wrong soon.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:06am
  - PhilBest
    
    Because I always understood that spread was from aerosolized virus, and deadliness was a factor of inhalation over time, not unluckily touching the wrong door handle – I was not surprised that the vaccines don’t make much difference. Because in their famous “trials” – which lasted 2 months – there was no quantification of “exposure” and hence severity of illness – the trials did not focus on the at-risk occupations or those housed in at-risk housing conditions – it merely said “positive PCR = a case of Covid”.
    
    This is like testing bullet proof vests on the entire personnel of the US military without focusing on those actually engaged in any fighting.
    
    The outcomes of the trials were so statistically weak, that had the trials been of Ivermectin or HCQ, they would have been trumpeted to the heavens as “proving ineffectiveness”. The double standards are criminal.
    
    The large scale Randomized Control Trial, under the conditions of Covid pandemic, is a waste of time. Like testing bullet proof vests where the actual fighting is, treatments need to be tested where people are actually dying. And guess what? That is what hundreds of doctors DID with HCQ and Ivermectin.
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:15am
    - Simon
      
      The vaxxs were political. Operation warp speed.
      Trump said he wanted vaccines quickly and industry raced the trials to produce a political answer not a medical one.
      
      You can still laugh at the TDS types who are so into the vaxs fixing covid.
      
      TDS and zero coivd its a very bad combination. Mental illness for sure as they cant cope with reality.
      
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      August 19, 2021 8:41am
      - Bluegrass
        
        Damn straight.
        
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        August 19, 2021 9:24am
      - PhilBest
        
        I have stuck up for Trump many times because TDS makes his accusers capable of many inconsistencies. But I regard Operation Warp Speed as his biggest mistake – and if his opponents get to pivot, when he runs again in 2024, to “the damage done by HIS vaccines” – he will be TOAST.
        
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        August 19, 2021 9:49am
      - Batman
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        The on ok damage done by the Warp speed vaccines will be the anti-vax pivot by the GOP and Fox which is killing off the Republican base one by one.
        
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        August 19, 2021 10:20am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Batman, you are aware are you not, that more Democrat voters are unvaccinated as a percentage, than Republican voters ? In particular, urban black voters have the overall lowest vaccination rates.
        
        Your constant lies based on your serious TDS are becoming tedious.
        
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        August 19, 2021 11:35am
      - Batman
        
        Please show a verifiable and reliable source for that.
        
        Though it may be that it is because democratic voters outweigh Republicans by several million, with the college, geographic spread, and gerrymandering the only thing keeping the GOP in touch with power.
        
        And yes, black Americans have low vaccination rates because of well known racial experiments and distrust of the state. Sadly, anti-vax groups are targeting them for conversion to the cause:
        https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/06/08/1004214189/anti-vaccine-film-targeted-to-black-americans-spreads-false-information
        
        As for your accusation about my “constant lies” I think you’ll find it’s my opinion and thus I am entitled to it, especially when backed by evidence. Start with the first link and go from there, Fox flipped on Vaccines from day one of the Biden admin, as a route to securing the Trump viewership:
        
        https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-hosts-vaccines-biden-trump-2021-2
        
        https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/former-fox-news-exec-slams-network-over-vaccine-misinformation-20210717-p58ain.html
        
        https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/how-fox-news-covid-vaccine-denialism-hurts-my-patients-ncna1274236
        
        https://www.vox.com/22585354/hannity-fox-news-covid-19-coverage
        
        https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-health-government-and-politics-arts-and-entertainment-media-74f36fead348661aeba170422381a972
        
        https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/07/fox-news-tucker-carlson-vaccine-lawsuit.html
        
        https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/fox-news-anti-vaccination-hysteria-1195003/
        
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        August 19, 2021 12:01pm
      - Frank the tank
        
        Oh Batty the damage done by the old coot’s French withdrawal from Afganistan will do more damage to the Dems than KuFlu could ever do to the GOP.
        
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        August 19, 2021 12:13pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        “And yes, black Americans have low vaccination rates because of well known racial experiments and distrust of the state.”
        
        So when they have gunshot or car crash wounds they go to a voodoo practitioner instead of a hospital? Lest the hospital inject them with some experimental disease?
        
        I think your (and the loony left’s) assumption there is a stretch, to say the least. A culture of not giving a crap about important health choices amongst certain sub-CULTURES is more likely IMHO.
        
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        August 19, 2021 6:42pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Yes, I recall your position, and seeing your position change when the evidence showed it was the right thing to do. We need you government!
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:19am
  - kowtow
    
    KK
    
    Your 10 points above are waaaaay over the heads of any of the people running the world at the moment , except perhaps the Swedes.
    
    We’re ruled by myopic , poll obsessed morons who live in utter fear of a far left Media Pardy .
    
    They apply the same myopia to “climate emergency” . A complex weather system all comes down to the control of a trace gas , you can’t make this up.
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:22am
    - tf78
      
      kowtow, the trouble is they do make this up.
      
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      August 19, 2021 8:41am
    - Sede Vacante
      
      Are they (i.e. world leaders/members of the monied elite) stupid? As much as I’d like to say they are, I cannot reasonably conclude that they are.
      
      Are they lying about almost every aspect for collective reasons that we can infer, but about which they have not been forthcoming (as amply evidenced by the series of 180s on much of their “guidance” as time has proceeded)? As much as I’d like to say they aren’t, my conclusion above leads the only viable explanation that they are.
      
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      August 19, 2021 12:25pm
  - Nickc2
    
    I agree Benedict. There are none so blind as those who will not see.
    However, doesn’t it make it easier to implement a new Political Ideology when a country is bankrupt and divorced from former allies?.
    If you think North Korea is a Cot-Case, be prepared, that’s where we’re headed IMO.
    Morning classes in Cindy Worship will replace Covid-19 testing queues.
    
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    August 19, 2021 10:02am
    - Batman
      
      Nick that is genuinely funny, though I’m not sure you mean it to be.
      
      We’re at home for a few days or a week. This is not the dawn of a new North Korean state.
      
      Honestly, you guys are massive drama queens sometimes ?
      
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      August 19, 2021 10:27am
      - Joe Kerr
        
        Your blithe dismissal and vile mocking of concerns from suffering retail and hospitality businesses is beyond the pale.
        
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        August 19, 2021 10:59am
      - Batman
        
        Nonsense. I’m not dismissing those concerns at all, you’re putting words in my mouth, which is particularly dishonest.
        
        Given your reply I assume you may be impacted, and I feel sorry for you if you’re taking a hit to your job or business. There is support available (no substitute but it’s something).
        
        The point remains that Nick’s fever dream of becoming a new authoritarian communist state is totally removed from reality.
        
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        August 19, 2021 11:16am
      - Nickc2
        
        Batman, your intellect is such that it demeans me to progress this conversation with you.
        
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        August 19, 2021 1:52pm
      - Batman
        
        Nick, you are the person having visions of a new North Korea.
        
        I think it might be your intellect, or maybe an overactive imagination, that is the issue here.
        
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        August 19, 2021 3:17pm
      - Harriet
        
        LOL Batman.
        
        This is not about expertise but authority – no fucken plan in 18 months to deal with this but lockdown, lockdown, lockdown.
        
        That’s exactly what Kim would do. 😎
        
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        August 19, 2021 5:46pm
      - Batman
        
        As someone who doesn’t reside here, as far as we can tell, I’m not sure you are in much of a position to bloviate over it.
        
        As I said elsewhere, the deaths per million in the US is 1,960 while in NZ it is 5.2.
        
        I think we’re fine with our strategy, thanks.
        
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        August 19, 2021 6:01pm
- Cinematic
  
  This mob have chosen a path. In their minds it is the right path. No amount of evidence will shift them. In fact, they will double down, wait and see.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:07am
  - PhilBest
    
    I forget who it was who made the wise observation; people would rather double down as long as they are the majority, on being wrong; than admit a minority of people they belittled were right.
    
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    August 19, 2021 9:50am
  - Harriet
    
    100% correct.
    
    They want either 0% covid or 100% vaccinations no matter what the cost to individuals, business and society in the meantime. Yet they have no plan.
    
    Seymore will gain huge votes over this if he has the wisdom to go it alone and announce a plan; any and all drugs that help save all lives from covid, suicide and domestic violence.
    
    He can’t lose! 😎
    
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    August 19, 2021 10:34am
  - Bluegrass
    
    In Arabic the word for ‘path’ is ‘sharia’.
    
    Ash-sharia haqiqa [the path/way is the truth].
    
    Ring any bells?
    
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    August 19, 2021 1:36pm
- PhilBest
  
  Brilliant, Krazykiwi.
  
  I’d suggest two more points to add to your impressive knowledge base.
  
  “Immune deficit” may well turn out to be the worst consequence of lockdowns, and the more prolonged, the worse the impact. I strongly suspect that so-called “Covid” breaking out again as nations start to emerge from lockdown, is not necessarily a Covid illness at all, but influenzas, RSV, other respiratory illnesses, rocking back up in the face of people’s atrophied immune systems – and the fraudulent PCR test being abused to say it is Covid.
  
  The other aspect is the horrific failure of official bodies to recognise that most spreading is from buildup of aerosolized virus indoors when ventilation is inadequate for the numbers of people present. Contact, droplets and surfaces has been a red herring distraction with deadly consequences.
  
  Yes, things like HCQ and Ivermectin, and basic neutraceuticals and we now know of many more things, always were helpful – but fresh air was always the front line of defence. Locking people inside in certain housing conditions has actually been causative for some proportion of the Covid death toll.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:08am
  - kowtow
    
    Locking people in will result in more getting the bash than getting the bug …….
    
    So much for the rights of wimmin and children.
    
    In Vic their looney dictator has closed playgrounds , as a punishment on top of a curfew.
    
    Liberal democracy ? My arse.
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:40am
    - PhilBest
      
      Schumpeter, in “Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy”, pointed out that Democracy does not equate to liberalism, of itself. It depends on the culture. He points out that a medieval democracy would have elected witch-burners, and these witch burners would have been popular. In fact, enlightened despots have been necessary for the first stirrings of liberalism.
      
      In Afghanistan, the elected government after the “liberation” passed their first law: the death sentence for apostasy from Islam. I said at that point, that the whole nation-building exercise is a waste of time and we might as well just leave them to their medieval culture and its consequences.
      
      But back to Covid tyranny: same thing. It is “popular”. Our civilization is finished.
      
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      August 19, 2021 9:56am
  - Charmaine Hawke
    
    Phil also look out for a new disease Covid Pneumonia, this has cropped up in the USA and I have heard of a few diagnosed with it. I am going to go out on a limb and say this is the predictable outcome of mask wearing (it was the cause of the second wave in 1918 according to no less an authority than Anthony Fauchi) but adding covid to it is their attempt to mask that fact.
    We are being led by idiots and public health officials who have practiced politics but no medicine in their careers.
    
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    August 19, 2021 9:42am
    - PhilBest
      
      I agree that masks will cause various illnesses – and as for “Covid pneumonia” and many other “Covid this” and “Covid that” syndromes; all these are, is something else perfectly predictable, and a positive PCR test for Covid. Just as heart attack and cancer deaths are “Covid deaths”, RSV cases, pneumonias, flus, asthma, allergies – all these will be “Covid something”.
      
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      August 19, 2021 1:35pm
  - Ehlana
    
    “most spreading is from buildup of aerosolized virus indoors when ventilation is inadequate”.
    We’ve just legislated heat pumps into rental properties, which I understand, heat or cool and re-circulate the existing air.
    So have we just legislated spending a lot of money without improving indoor air quality?
    
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    August 19, 2021 1:23pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Strange things happen. When Trump was going on about HCQ, one of the biggest manufacturers had an incident. The second biggest manufacturer had a fire – in Taiwan. Accidental??
    
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    August 19, 2021 2:37pm
- Scott
  
  krazy – all those are great points. But here is the thing. Isn’t the Prime Minister very comfortable with the situation as it stands?
  
  The slowest vaccination rollout in the whole of the OECD. No increase in ICU facilities. Lockdown everyone when 95% of the fatalities are people over the age of 50 and of those over 80% of people over the age of 65.
  
  But this is all good for the Prime Minister. Her poll numbers were going down. What to do? Signal through Chris Hipkins that even one case of the Delta variant and we will go into level 4 lockdown. Next week, hey presto, we have a community case. Everyone into level 4 lockdown!
  
  The result?. The Prime Minister is saving us from Covid! Her poll numbers go up.
  
  I think it is in the Prime Minister’s interest for the Covid crisis to go on for the foreseeable future. If she can draw it out till the next election more the better. A frightened population will vote for the saviour Jacinda.
  Am I wrong?
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:11am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    No mate, you’re dead right.
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:44am
  - dcrane
    
    Not wrong, and the primary problem is lack of criticism from the media as well as the political opposition (not to mention the population that supports and encourages ineffective journalism).
    
    It has been clear for months that New Zealand was vulnerable to this in large part due to an inadequate vaccine program, yet the NZ Herald has presented readers throughout with tendentious little charts showing the program “3% ahead of target”, with no comment on the growing absurdity of the lowballed target itself!
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:48am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      media gatekeep criticism – opposition has no voice because they are denied it by media.
      
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      August 19, 2021 9:53am
      - dcrane
        
        Good point, Brash’s experiences trying to get op-eds or even ads published are a great example:
        
        https://nominister.wordpress.com/2021/05/24/die-msm-die-systemic-corruption/
        
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        August 19, 2021 11:10am
    - Ronin
      
      Down ticked by accident, sorry. Wish the two icons weren’t so close to each other…
      
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      August 19, 2021 1:13pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    I think you have described Ardern’s strategy.
    
    She is quite willing to sacrifice the welfare of NZers in order to improve her chances of continued rule.
    
    This is the very definition of tyrannical leadership.
    
    I am 1000x more concerned with metastasizing tyranny than I am the bad flu aka Covid-19
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:53am
    - PhilBest
      
      Something else to consider: as long as NZ is “Covid free”, the establishment cannot blame on “Covid”, things like RSV, other respiratory illnesses, the deadly consequences of Immune Deficit, and mRNA jab side-effects.
      
      We are as important an outlier case-study, as Sweden was for a long time. We are the disproof of a fraudulent global narrative that treats “Covid death” as a convenient statistical dumping ground for deaths that are actually caused by “mitigation” strategies and the mRNA shots.
      
      There will be people who badly, badly want Covid to get out of control in NZ. Jacinda must be torn between maintaining her Covid-savior sainthood, and getting with the global program for “vaccinations and digital ID saving us”, along with “temporary” brutal policing and social control.
      
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      August 19, 2021 10:02am
  - Ruawai
    
    Don’t think the people will follow her over a cliff this time, think she has lost the room and will be voted out next election.
    
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    August 19, 2021 9:40am
  - crikey
    
    So when Ardern said ‘one case of Covid and we will go to L4 lockdown’ did she already know about the likely first case, the AirNZ person returning from Japan?
    
    For me, there have been too many disquieting coincidences over the last 18 months that have boosted my normal level of scepticism.
    
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    August 19, 2021 9:43am
  - backster
    
    We could put Teddy Bears in our windows. That worked last time.
    
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    August 19, 2021 10:42am
    - Scott
      
      LOL 🙂
      
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      August 19, 2021 11:07am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Great observations, well researched facts as usual.
  Here is a walking talking ad for the jabs.
  Victor Dominello, Minister for Customer Service, diagnosed with Bells Palsy after the daily covid porn presentation. But don’t mention the jab.
  A picture paints a thousand words.
  
  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9904525/NSW-Minister-Victor-Dominello-announces-Bells-palsy-viewers-spotted-startling-feature.html
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:16am
  - krazykiwi
    
    That’s horrible for Dominello. The good news for him is that Balls Palsy typically self-heals in 3-4 months.
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:25am
    - tf78
      
      krazy, my neice got it about 10 years ago – and her face is still stuffed. It can be absolutely awful – she was such an attractive girl to. (At the least she has the personality to live with it).
      
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      August 19, 2021 8:51am
  - Surely Knott
    
    25 people have experienced Bells Palsy after the jab in NZ according to Medsafe report for end of July. The article doesn’t make clear if Victor has been recently vaccinated.
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:35am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      I have been told of 2 people who have died after the jab.
      
      My guess is nz will be the only country in the world where nobody dies from the vaccine.
      
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      August 19, 2021 9:06am
      - Surely Knott
        
        Medsafe is reporting 22 people have died after the jab. (15 unlikely related to vaccine, 2 deaths insufficient information, 5 cases under investigation.) Ages. 2 deaths were 30 – 59 years,
        9 deaths = 60 – 79 years, 11 deaths =
        80 years.
        
        They say,”By chance, some people will experience new illnesses or die from a pre-existing condition shortly after vaccination, especially if they are elderly. Therefore, part of our review process includes comparing natural death rates to observed death rates following vaccination, to determine if there are any specific trends or patterns that might indicate a vaccine safety concern. There are currently no indications to suggest that the vaccine caused the deaths.”
        
        Looks like these deaths were within statistical normality?! Perfectly likely that 2 people in the 39 age group would die after jab? Would be good to get more info, like preexisting conditions and what they actually died of if it wasn’t the jab, because *unlikely* isn’t that reassuring.
        
        https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/safety-report-22.asp
        
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        August 19, 2021 10:02am
      - PhilBest
        
        I think Sue Gray’s statement of 70 deaths is provable. The thing is, when you are jabbing in the thousands, the people who are close to death anyway, there will be “coincidental death”. But some of us have been pointing this out all along about “Covid deaths” – 85 year olds on average, etc. Suddenly, “coincidental death” goes from a censored statistical principle, to a promoted one, just as it suits the narrative?
        
        But here is the biggest irony, to this logical mind. The people who are vulnerable to both Covid, and to the jab, are those with weak or non-existent antibodies responses. Why the F do we use a jab that depends on antibodies response, on people whose lack of antibodies response is the reason that we have trashed the economy and society in the first place, to “protect them”????? This is worse than an “own goal”. It is burning down the entire stadium to prevent losing a match, and then still kicking an own-goal and losing the match.
        
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        August 19, 2021 10:09am
      - Sede Vacante
        
        Surely Knott
        Why is this not being talked about? Surely it is an interesting story, at the very least, and anyone acting in good faith would address this openly. The apparent total blackout on such matters speaks volumes.
        
        Moreover “some people will experience new illnesses or die from a pre-existing condition shortly after vaccination, especially if they are elderly”. Why the casual attribution and recognition of pre-existing conditions with respect to vaccine complications, yet, by contrast, the outright dismissal of pre-existing conditions when it comes to Covid panic? A rhetorical question of course.
        
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        August 19, 2021 12:40pm
- Mr_Blobby
  
  All good points.
  
  But this is really about controlling the population.
  
  You need a crisis, any crisis to keep the people cowed, in fear, and compliant.
  
  They then look to you for answers. Giving up hard won freedoms and privacy for the illusion of safety.
  
  Covid is perfect.
  
  The problem is that you always need a crisis to keep control.
  
  I had to laugh at the, matter of life or death climate emergency.
  
  Remember capitalism has failed the children, truth, socialism failed the children.
  
  Remember, “The only truth is the truth we tellyou.” Everything else is misinformation. The reality is that truth, those facts, have constantly changed, that’s what I call misinformation.
  
  Tell the people what they want to hear.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:19am
  - tf78
    
    Mr Blobby, the only thing I want to hear it “I resign”.
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:53am
  - Frank the tank
    
    They are liars all Kuflu jab centres in Auckland closed for 14 days decided at 9am this morning – nothing in the media.
    
    They were open when they emailed at 3.45pm yesterday and when I talked to the call centre at 5pm. Feel for the call centre operators – they are getting smashed.
    
    Fuck this dictatorship.
    
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    August 19, 2021 12:18pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  More discernment is needed. Ardern is again featuring in international comments:
  https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2021/08/18/covid-will-prevail-as-long-as-the-known-cures-are-against-protocol/
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:28am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The thought Police will be around shortly. You are telling more lies than Jaspinda ///
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:35am
- tf78
  
  How do we know the vaccine reduces symptoms when often the symptoms are not noticeable anyway.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:37am
- thirteenstars
  
  “We need political leadership with the intestinal fortitude to admit we must change direction.”
  
  You must be talking about our loyal opposition, the National Party.
  
  Where is National on this? Where it always is: in lockstep with the government, a few minor critiques aside, as if the virus itself was intimidated by the thought of Judith & Jacinda** with linked arms.
  
  Frankly, if the virus is sentient, the bloody thing will only be encouraged.
  
  **that’s got a nice ring to it; perhaps a combined ticket at the next election.
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:07am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Havent heard anything about Health & Safety Act and Covid. If a worker customer contractor etc catches Covid in a workplace does the Act apply. If not why not. Suggest will require and amendment to ensure organisations Directors Managers not liable for fines and jail time.
  And what happens if a worker refuses to be vacinated and employer fines them to avoid liability under the Act and employee or Union takes employer to Court for unjustified dismissal and employer raises H&S Act as their defence.
  Can the legal beagles on KB please advise.
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:16am
- Mummy
  
  According to HDPA the other day our ICU capacity has reduced by about 70 beds since March 2020. Quite a big drop from 300 something to 200 something. Most likely because of staffing constraints, not the actual beds.
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:35am
- NoFax
  
  All very good points and it seems odd that it appears we haven’t learnt anything. I suspect we are being driven by fear.
  
  To those that down voted krazykiwi – please, what are your counter points? What has he missed out? What data should we consider? If you have good arguments let’s hear them.
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:36am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Not worth it, NoFax. Fraser House will have their orders, and the mindless dolts are simply lock stepped in obedience.
    
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    August 19, 2021 10:08am
- virtualmark
  
  krazy, can I suggest a different way to think about this.
  
  (1) All developed countries are going to end up in the same place. By 2023 all developed countries will have re-opened their borders, re-engaged, but with Covid endemic in their populations, albeit controlled and moderated by vaccination programmes. New Zealand will be in that same place too – the social and political pressure will be inexorable.
  
  (2) But developed countries have taken different paths to get to that same place.
  
  (3) Our path, established very very early on, was to stamp out Covid in NZ in order to buy time for (i) clinical treatments and (ii) vaccines to become available. We chose to protect the border, hunker down, and wait. That has low medical costs, but moderately high economic costs (domestic economy still functioning, international travel/tourism hurt). This is where the “elimination” wording comes in … we have elected to eliminate Covid *until* such time as we can deal with it effectively.
  
  (4) Other countries, for example the USA and Europe, weren’t able to do that. They were quickly overwhelmed. They have incurred high medical costs, but also moderately high economic costs too (domestic economies took a big hit because they had lockdowns too, international travel/tourism still hurt too). They could not eliminate Covid so had to deal with it from a very poor position, at large medical cost.
  
  (5) Those other countries are now re-opening, in part because their vaccination programmes are further along (higher clinical need = earlier deliveries), but also because their population has lockdown fatigue and so the social/political imperative is to re-open.
  
  (6) But you can see all developed countries trending towards the same outcome … see point (1) above. We will all end up with Covid endemic but moderated.
  
  “Elimination until we can deal with Covid cheaply and effectively” has been a sensible strategy.
  
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  August 19, 2021 11:05am
  - krazykiwi
    
    This is well reasoned analysis, and I mostly agree with it.
    
    Regarding #3, yes we have hunkered down, but we have sat on our hands not used that to prepare our health system, and we have assumed – for long after the evidence has shown otherwise – that vaccines would be the silver bullet.
    
    Further, “Elimination until we can deal with Covid cheaply and effectively” has been a sensible strategy … but stopped being sensible or defensible, sometime ago. Yet we have persisted with it.
    
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    August 19, 2021 1:07pm
    - virtualmark
      
      Vaccines have proven to be extremely (>95%) effective against hospitalisation and death. So they render Covid “cheap” to combat.
      
      Personally I think the borders will be re-opened at around Easter 2022, once every Kiwi over the age of 12 has had the opportunity to be vaccinated. Probably only about 75% of Kiwis will take up that opportunity, and there will be deaths among the 25% that don’t take it up. But we can’t put everyone’s lives on hold for the 25% of holdouts.
      
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      August 19, 2021 3:17pm
- alwyn
  
  “Economist John Maynard Keynes once said: –
  “When the facts change, I change my mind – what do you do, sir?”
  
  That is a wonderful comment, and a very perceptive one.
  However I’ll bet you can’t find any evidence that he ever made that statement.
  
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  August 19, 2021 11:22am
  - krazykiwi
    
    There is some evidence that Paul Samuelson, also an economist, may have uttered these words first.
    
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    August 19, 2021 1:00pm
    - Bluegrass
      
      “Most of the quotes on the internet are bogus”.
      – Abraham Lincoln.
      
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      August 19, 2021 1:43pm
- Ra Henare
  
  And Add.
  The testing regime is still the slow and suspect testing regime from 18 months ago.
  
  It seems unbelievable that the Government is NOT using rapid testing! ie the saliva based 15-30 minute option.
  It shows the luddite thinking that they are still using NOT fit for purpose testing that takes days for results.
  
  But I guess the working group hasnt written their biased report on such testing options. Too busy writting up lockdown scenarios I suspect.
  
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  August 19, 2021 12:19pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Well glad that you are released after yesterday’s protests KK. Bet you had to give the police your real name.
  If you think that it is news to the board that the Vaccine’s protection declines over time you must have been asleep. But however, it is not unlike you to use the obvious to strengthen your weaker arguments such as that lockdowns don’t work. For NZ they have worked as eradication strategies. The problem has been that the border has leaked.
  I read the links you embedded which maintained your former and changing position about herd immunity, little more to say after that.
  
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  August 19, 2021 12:27pm
- Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes
  
  Lockdown was supposed to prevent the health system from being swamped. If Delta does not create increase in hospitalisation and deaths (check UK numbers) then why are worried about it spreading?
  
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  August 19, 2021 12:48pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  When the facts change, I change my mind – what do you do, maam?
  
  A: I follow the vibe of my cool-people peers.
  
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  August 19, 2021 6:22pm
PhilBest

It is a mystery to me why millions of people around the world, do not use even a few minutes of their enforced inactivity during lockdowns – even for months on end – to do some research into what is really going on.

Kiwibloggers might remember that I go nuts on the site when I have time. Most of the time, I don’t.

But on this lockdown morning, here is what is in my opinion, the most important piece of knowledge anyone could take in at the current time. If you get this, you will see that we are living in a Matrix. If you watch this and don’t get it, you’re one of the sheeple that are worthless in political power games.

Kary Mullis, the inventor of the PCR test, years ago, explaining that it is a powerful research tool – with it, “you can find almost anything in absolutely anyone”. It is not a tool to “diagnose illness”. If we tested with PCR for the HIV virus and then said that is what is killing people, we could have a hysteria over that right now – seeing people are so easily SUCKERED.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHmVj3LTqrU
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August 19, 2021 8:00am
- krazykiwi
  
  The kindling wood was a flu-like illness.
  
  The match was faked images of people dying outside hospitals.
  
  The accelerant was faulty RT-PCR testing.
  
  And voilà! … we have a raging pandemic.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:39am
  - tf78
    
    krazy, remember that poor little girl who must have died about three times in three different places. Time for some sunlight – why isn’t Seymour onto this instead of going on about the necessity of bloody vaccinations.
    
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    August 19, 2021 9:21am
Benedict Yu

In the next 48 hours, President Biden will announce that all Americans will be offered a third shot of vaccine 8 months after receiving their second shot. At the same time there will be data released on vaccine effectiveness. This will probably show an alarming decline in the effectiveness of the vaccine in preventing infection after 8 months.

Most countries in the world will take their lead from the USA. So two questions. Firstly, will the Government act quickly to order more vaccines, or will they form a working group to report back in six months? Secondly, will the PM tell us what the declining effectiveness of the vaccines means for our COVID elimination policy?

Follow up question. Given the evidence on vaccine effectiveness against infection and transmission, does she stand by her statement that New Zealand will be able to open the borders and “stamp out like measles” any COVID outbreaks? If the answer to that question is “yes” could she please provide specific, evidence based explanations of how that will be possible?
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August 19, 2021 8:00am
- krazykiwi
  
  Interesting. I understand (from a commentator here) that our government has ordered (10m?) Novavax. Can anyone substantiate that?
  
  Booster shots do raise the spectre of a need/demand for continuous ‘vaccinations’, and we probably need to be concerned about ADE in that regard.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:15am
  - westernScientest
    
    currently it has not been approved by medsafe, but they have put an application in. Janssen and astrazenica have been approved. Both are subject to conditions, although I haven’t bothered to read them, and I have no idea if any of them have been ordered.
    
    https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/status-of-applications.asp
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:28am
  - virtualmark
    
    We have an Advance Purchase Agreement to purchase enough Novavax vaccine for the entire NZ population (about 5.4 million people). The APA was signed in late-2020 so it’s conditional on Novavax meeting certain milestones (like Stage III trials, MedSafe approvals etc).
    
    At the time the expectation was Novavax’s vaccine would be available by now, but they took a long time to get through the clinical trials, and look like they’re delayed on manufacturing ramp-up too.
    
    Novavax is a very small company and IMHO they have tried to do too much on their own, as opposed to partnering with someone like Merck who could have accelerated trials, production and distribution.
    
    Note that it’s quite possible Novavax’s vaccine regime will also involve boosters too. You just won’t know until there’s been a long enough history with it to see how its protection holds or fades.
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:28am
    - Ed Snack
      
      It’s not an mRNA vaccine, and is based on their successful pertussis vaccine’s mechanism. I believe it uses nano particles to encapsulate spike protein fragments.
      
      It is claimed that is at least 95% effective, but whether it actually is better we don’t yet know. Not being mRNA and using a tried and approved mechanism is a positive though. Could be just as disappointing as the existing ones, we’ll have to find out the hard way I suspect.
      
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      August 19, 2021 11:46am
      - virtualmark
        
        Yes, understood.
        
        The technical people were pointing to Novavax likely having the best Covid vaccine back in Sep/Oct last year. There’s a reason we have a big order of it.
        
        But, that said, Novavax is a small company with no vaccines currently in production. Great technology, but experiencing growing pains with the stuff that happens outside the lab.
        
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        August 19, 2021 11:53am
      - sooty
        
        Will America suck up all available zombie shots and leave every country whistling in the breeze!
        
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        August 19, 2021 6:14pm
  - Paulus
    
    Not got first one yet !
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:35am
    - Sede Vacante
      
      Here’s a sound idea: because the first two shots don’t work, let’s get another one! Are people this stupid?
      
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      August 19, 2021 12:45pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Apparantly the “booster shot” needs to be the same vaccine as the original. So if we all need third shots the government will need to order more Pfizer.
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:55am
    - krazykiwi
      
      This has been, and remains the CDC’s official guidance. There’s quite a bit of experimentation going on with so-called mix-and-match vaccination, but where I see positive stories like this, I do wonder if the backstory is to help ‘move’ vaccines that have been shunned, eg the AZ ‘clotshot’ as it has become known in the UK
      
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      August 19, 2021 9:20am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        To date, the Government has not ordered a single booster dose from Pfizer. Given that 1) Pfizer has said that the vaccine will be provided on a first-come-first-served basis, and 2) USA, UK and Australia are among the countries to have placed orders so far sufficient to vaccinate their entire population, we will again be at the tail of the queue.
        
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        August 19, 2021 11:23am
      - virtualmark
        
        Tony, Tony, Tony,
        
        How do you know that we don’t have ongoing purchase arrangements with Pfizer under our existing contract? (You don’t)
        
        Where have Pfizer said that the vaccine will be provided on a first-come first-served basis? (That’s not how they do it)
        
        Don’t you know that we have ordered more than enough Pfizer vaccine to vaccinate our whole population, plus the same amount again from Novavax, and from Astra Zeneca, and from Janssen although we may not want to use that one. (We are awash in vaccines. We have enough for 3 separate full vaccination rounds for every single Kiwi. And given 25% or so of the population won’t take it realistically we have 4 separate full vaccination rounds for every Kiwi who wants one.)
        
        Don’t panic Captain Mainwaring. Keep calm and breathe through your nose.
        
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        August 19, 2021 11:38am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        VM – the Minister has been questioned about this both in the House and via written questions, and has confirmed no decisions have yet been made on the purchase of booster vaccines. The Government is unlikely to make any such decisions until the initial vaccine rollout is either well advanced or completed.
        
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        August 19, 2021 11:49am
      - virtualmark
        
        There’s two decisions.
        
        Firstly, do you run a campaign of booster injections or not. In that regard I suspect we are going with a “fast follower” type approach. We’re getting regular updates from Pfizer and the other vaccine manufacturers, we’re seeing what other countries are about to do … in reality this first decision is a fait accompli.
        
        Secondly, how do we lay our hands on enough vaccine to fulfil that booster programme. So likely another 4.5 million doses in practice, although we’ll order 5.5 million because that is the full population. Answer pt1 = we have already committed to take multiple times that amount of vaccine which so far is unused. Answer pt2 = we can fairly easily add even more volume onto existing arrangements with any/all of the four suppliers we are dealing with.
        
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        August 19, 2021 11:59am
    - tf78
      
      Some doctor was saying yesterday that the two first vaccines should be different brands instead of two of the same.
      
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      August 19, 2021 9:24am
- PhilBest
  
  If we were using PCR tests for Measles, we would find we haven’t stamped that out either. Traces of most viruses linger in most people forever. Immunity doesn’t mean there is no trace to be found.
  
  The PCR test is a hyper sensitive research tool that proves this point. It does NOT prove “illness”, and this is the central fraud of the whole pandemic.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:18am
  - alloytoo
    
    Wonder if the test could potential detect ERVs in our own DNA if they were close enough to what they are looking for?
    
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    August 19, 2021 10:35am
    - PhilBest
      
      Interesting – if you Google PCR and Endogenous Retrovirus, papers do come up in the search results, looks like they do indeed try this.
      
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      August 19, 2021 1:40pm
- R
  
  Benedict,
  
  You’re probably unaware – like nearly everyone else – but in April 2021, vaccinators here were given information about the vaccine’s effectiveness. The vaccinators were told, as part of their online education course, that:
  
  “It is too early to know how long the protection given by the COVID-19 vaccine may last but is being studied”.
  
  “We would expect COVID-19 vaccines to provide protection for longer than 2 months, although exactly how long for, remains unknown at this stage. This is because not enough time has passed since the clinical trials started to be able to accurately answer this.”
  
  That is what happens when a vaccine is rushed into production in record time. But when people talk about “the science”, they are bullshitting. Even the vaccinators don’t know how effective the vaccine is. They “expect” – aka hope – that it’s longer than two months.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:20am
  - virtualmark
    
    2 months? Or 12 months?
    
    I could well believe Pfizer cautioning about 12 month protection, because by April 2021 they had (well Biontech had) 12 months history from their earliest animal and human trials.
    
    But by April they were also sure the protection lasted more than 2 months.
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:33am
    - R
      
      VM,
      
      I’m looking at the information that was given to vaccinators in April. It says that “We know that immunity…lasts for at least two months”. Of course, even that may be wrong because we don’t know how quickly a vaccinated person may become infected. But beyond two months was unknown.
      
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      August 19, 2021 12:58pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Okay, fair enough. Seems very conservative advice.
        
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        August 19, 2021 3:19pm
- Greg Ettridge
  
  I came across an interesting post yesterday, I am pretty much settled on Novovax when it becomes available.
  There 1 million set to be delivered in Australia in December, what really surpised me was the company is saying Australia has ordered 51 million doses for mid 2022.
  If this is true, there is enough to vaccinate the entire population, so that is a really interesting development.
  It is really saying the much of the world is saying, the present vaccines are no longer fit for purpose, maybe they were never fit for purpose.
  All reasoning was lost in rushing to grab the cash from the first experimental jabs.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:23am
  - artemisia
    
    At last there is a reason for New Zealand’s go slow – go late vaccine plan. Waiting for Novavax. //
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:31am
    - Prince
      
      what’s the reason ?
      
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      August 19, 2021 9:19am
    - septic skeptic
      
      So, if and when Novavax gets the go ahead how many years will it be before this is not another “experimental” vaccine to be avoided for fear of long term adverse consequences?
      And whose microchips are they using in this one?
      
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      August 19, 2021 10:48am
    - PhilBest
      
      I must admit that I am less worried by the Novovax one, than the other main ones to date. Initially I was wating to see if side effects would become so undeniable that the authorities would lighten up on the threatened compulsion. But waiting for vaccines that have been developed along different lines to mRNA, and more cautiously, also makes sense.
      
      I tell pro-Pfizer (and AZ, Moderna etc) people who have had the jab, thanks heaps for joining the study group. And you should thank people like me for joining the control group.
      
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      August 19, 2021 1:46pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Well, there were a lot of people panicking and it was an election year – so normal caution may not have prevailed.
    
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    August 19, 2021 12:34pm
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Follow the money.
  
  Who is doing very well out of this manufactured crisis.
  
  Brilliant the entire world will need a vaccine shot every 8 to 12 months for the rest of their lives.
  
  Follow the money.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:26am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Over 1 Million Israelis have had a 3rd shot of Pfizer vaccine
  
  https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-million-israelis-get-third-dose-with-early-data-showing-heightened-protection/
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:29am
  - virtualmark
    
    Israel’s access to Pfizer’s vaccine is due to Jewish networks more than anything else. Pfizer’s Chair/CEO is a Jew whose parents were Holocaust survivors.
    
    I’m not dark about that – we would have done the same if the Pfizer Chair/CEO had been an expat-Kiwi. You leverage every network you have.
    
    What it does mean is that Israel has been a valuable “canary in the coal mine” for other countries. One of their four HMOs, Maccabi, does a lot of clinical research and they’re saying the booster is about 86% effective.
    
    Note that even in Israel only about 55% of the population is fully vaccinated, and only 20% of the population (basically the oldest 20%) are getting the booster.
    
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    August 19, 2021 10:35am
  - alloytoo
    
    If we continue to isolate our population from the rest of the world, is the vaccine going to still be active by the time we open our borders in 2122?
    
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    August 19, 2021 10:37am
- G152
  
  Another yearly flu shot !
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:31am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    maybe just one flu shot, have read where Novovax will vaccinate against flu in covid flu shop.
    
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    August 19, 2021 9:00am
    - virtualmark
      
      The Novavax Covid vaccine doesn’t have any protection against the flu. It is not a flu shot. Novavax do have a flu vaccine candidate but AFAIK it’s not approved yet.
      
      CSL (Australian company) make the flu vaccines that we and many other countries use. They chose to license the Oxford/Astra-Zeneca vaccine in part because they could see how it could be incorporated into a one-shot flu Covid annual injection.
      
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      August 19, 2021 10:19am
      - PhilBest
        
        Most people have done fine for decades without a flu shot. There was never any reason to make it compulsory. We are on a slippery slope if we decide that Covid jabs are mandatory, then flu jabs, then what else? With highly truncated trial periods now acceptable? And the manufacturers given waivers from liability? Phooo, what could possibly go wrong?
        
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        August 19, 2021 1:49pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Fair to say that CSL see it as a good business opportunity for them – the annual “flu” shot goes from being an optional thing to more of a requirement and their business grows as a result.
        
        Note that the indemnities are only until the vaccines have full, rather than emergency use, authorisations.
        
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        August 19, 2021 3:21pm
- crikey
  
  There is evidence that having had two doses of the vaccine and then contracting Covid-19 boosts antibody levels significantly, in many cases being symptomless. In other words, this in itself acts as a booster dose.
  
  If only people could bring themselves to get vaccinated we may not need to worry about a booster. We could, instead, learn to live with the virus circulating in the community – a desirable long-term solution.
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:19am
  - PhilBest
    
    I am more interested in the science of “getting people Covid-infected and naturally immune harmlessly”.
    
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7685031/
    
    I’d volunteer for that without hesitation.
    
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    August 19, 2021 1:52pm
- virtualmark
  
  Benedict,
  
  You should expect that there are continual ongoing negotiations with all the major vaccine providers (remember we have contracts with four of them, not just Pfizer).
  
  You should expect that BigPharma allocates vaccine production on purely clinical needs (with an asterisk for Pfizer & Israel). Our vaccine agreements were done in Oct 2020. At that time people in the northern hemisphere were dying in hospital corridors, but in New Zealand we were going to concerts and rugby games. That is why we were/are a low priority for deliveries. Our orders went in at the same time as other countries, but our clinical need was less.
  
  You should expect that we will have a booster regime. But it probably won’t be (necessary) for all people, and it probably won’t start until early 2022 – I expect the priority will be giving all eligible Kiwis their first two doses.
  
  I can’t speak to the PM’s messaging. I’ve found most of their Covid messaging dumbed down to a low level.
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:45am
Happychappy

Grant Robertson and Adrian Orr see house prices becoming more sustainable.
Two of the worst Leaders in Finance New Zealand has ever seen Grant Robertson our Finance Minister and Reserve Bank Governor Adrian Orr believe their policies will make housing more sustainable and this announcement comes right at the time when COVID-19 has returned to our community.
“As a Government we have been concerned about house prices ourselves”. There’s a shared view that house price growth has been unsustainable ” Robertson said.
He said both the Government and the Reserve Bank were keen to to see our house prices become more sustainable.
The Banks Monetary Policy Statement published on Wednesday afternoon forcast slowing and eventually going negative, meaning house prices would fall.
Grant Robertson our Finance Minister also said they have built more dwellings and with private enterprise doing the same would help the market to recover.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/
Is this just another story being tossed out to try and limit the damage from Covid- 19 retuning to New Zealand and the nightmare that could follow if our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Director Ashley Bloomfield can’t prevent the carnage that could follow or is it more of wind and hot air from our Finance Minister Grant Robertson continually spouts.
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August 19, 2021 8:00am
- RoboRob
  
  I don’t think either Adrian or Robertson really believe the stuff they say with regards to house prices. They are simply trying, again, to talk down the housing market. Eventually they will succeed but it won’t be through their actions, it will be when people buying houses decided they are too expensive / not a good investment.
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:05am
  - Observer of Life
    
    Robo: I’m no body language expert, but Ardern appears to start flapping her arms more when she starts on what appears to be the PR BS. I’m saying that, just recently she appears to clamp her hands together to prevent herself from doing this. Watch her. Sound OFF is always best for the sanity, though I probably don’t need to tell you that.
    
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    August 19, 2021 3:34pm
    - curry4me
      
      Observer of Life: If I watched for more than a minute, I’d likely throw something solid at the TV. Thanks for the heads up though.
      
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      August 19, 2021 3:49pm
- pdm
  
  Grant Robertson and Adrian Orr.
  
  Two men promoted way beyond their capabilities.
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:29am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Happy – ” ….follow or is it more of wind…”
  
  Should read “…follow and is more of the wind….”
  That fixes it 🙂
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:54am
Critical Thinker

Delta – The New Phase of Mission Creep.

The gradual expansion of an intervention beyond its original scope or goals, spawned by initial success. When SARs-CoV2 approached last year the NZ mission was reasonable: protect ICUs and the heath system. But instead, Covid19 dried up. So NZ decided to eliminate Covid19; we kept the border closed, tracked & traced, did mini-lockdowns and isolated outbreaks. While none of those things were proven responsible for our good luck (they haven’t worked in any other country) elimination is now the goal – elimination of a virus almost everyone survives and almost everyone who doesn’t is over 82 years old (the average life expectancy in NZ).

We’re locked into a psychological state obsessed with Covid. We now close down the whole nation when one person gets “Delta” version of Covid19 and feels a bit sick, yet we tolerate, without action, at least 9 deaths from RSV.

It is hard to imagine that Fortress NZ can change from being so fearful of just one case of Covid19, to a future state where we open up our borders completely and experience many inconsequential cases and a few bad ones – but just live with it.

But we must change, and we will.

https://www.facebook.com/covidplanb/
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August 19, 2021 8:03am
- Critical Thinker
  
  Reflections on the Skegg report – By Dr Martin Lally
  
  The NZ government recently released a report from the Covid-19 Public Health Advisory Group. It concluded that elimination as international travel resumes is “the best option at this stage”. They defined elimination as “zero tolerance towards new cases”. They recognised that occasional large outbreaks may still occur, and proposed eliminating them by physical distancing, mask wearing, testing, contact tracing, and lockdowns. They acknowledged that “no-one knows what the outcome of this pandemic will be in say 3-5 years’ time”, and that more dangerous covid variants may emerge. Lockdowns may then be even more frequent and severe than they have been to date.
  
  In describing elimination as the “best option at this stage”, the Group implies that there are at least two alternatives to it. However, the only specific alternative mentioned by them involves ongoing “pronounced physical distancing, wearing masks in most indoor places, and separating high risk individuals from family and friends during winter months”. This is an extreme alternative to an elimination strategy.
  
  In support of its conclusion the Group presented three arguments:
  1. Doing so ensures that “our health system is not overwhelmed by large numbers of patients requiring care.”
  2. Doing so will obviate the need for “pronounced physical distancing, wearing masks in most indoor places, and separating high risk individuals from family and friends during winter months”.
  3. Doing so preserves the option to later switch to the alternative strategy.
  
  No disadvantages of the elimination strategy were mentioned. This cannot be because the Group believes there are none because it acknowledges the possibility that “the costs of elimination outweighed the benefits”. The Group does not identify these costs, but they include the GDP losses from lockdowns, unemployment, and disruption to students.
  
  The normal practice in assessing health interventions is to estimate the Quality Adjusted Life Years (QALYs) saved by an intervention net of its costs, and to favour it only if this difference is positive. The Group carries out no such analysis. It cannot be unaware of this standard practice, because every member is an expert in health policy. Furthermore, there is a clear implication that our health system is currently overwhelmed. Manifested in long queues for many operations, with some patients dying from the ailment in question before they reach the head of the queue.
  
  The Group implies that the capacity of our health system is immutable. However, its capacity can be increased in response to the pandemic because the benefits of capacity increases dwarf the costs. The UK managed in the course of a few weeks to convert several existing buildings into hospitals with the capacity for thousands of patients. Our response over the 18 months since the pandemic arrived has been virtually imperceptible.
  
  Finally, the Group states that “if it became clear over the next few years that the costs of elimination outweighed the benefits, it would be a simple matter to follow the example of other countries.” However, the Group’s report consisted only of listing the advantages of elimination, ignoring the disadvantages, and then declaring elimination to be the winner.
  
  https://www.covidplanb.co.nz/our-posts/reflections-on-the-skegg-report/
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:05am
  - PhilBest
    
    We are so scared of a virus for which we don’t know what the outcomes might be in 3 or 4 years (in spite of decades of immunology 101 and evidence of immunity working as expected), we force on people, a novel mRNA treatment for which we don’t know and cannot possibly know, what the outcomes might be in 3 or 4 years.
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:47am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    In other words…absolutely no change from where we were in late March-April 2020.
    
    Anyone placing bets on where we will be in April 2022 and April 2023?
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:49am
    - Critical Thinker
      
      Most likely something very similar to this if we continue to cower and carry on with this mass psychosis madness… ??
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2wj_OhZY4w
      
      IMHO
      
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      August 19, 2021 8:59am
    - crikey
      
      If the government is true to its current form thy will be preparing to lock down for the annual Winter influenza season.
      
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      August 19, 2021 10:23am
    - Joe Kerr
      
      I know where my wife and I will be, the same place and still vaccine free.
      
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      August 19, 2021 11:08am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Why masks, is is pretty clearly established that, in the real world, cloth masks are entirely ineffective against Covid.
    
    If you wear one that fits properly for a maximum of 20 minutes, change it using sterile gloves and dispose of the mask and gloves properly, then you might see a small positive effect. That simply does not happen, so, why masks except as a virtue signal ?
    
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    August 19, 2021 11:53am
    - Batman
      
      Ed this is a lie.
      
      https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118
      
      https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8
      
      https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449
      
      The evidence base shows they are effective.
      
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      August 19, 2021 12:13pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Batman there is a lot of expert discussion around this and public health officials in various countries have wobbled back and forth a fair bit on this topic over the course of the pandemic. Did you just go on a google cherry pick type expedition to harvest stuff reflecting your beliefs? I note there is a lot of use of the word “could” in these articles. EG “masks *could* help”.
        
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        August 19, 2021 7:24pm
JibberJabber

RIP Sean Locke…
https://twitter.com/addicted2newz/status/1427951875463208968
?
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August 19, 2021 8:03am
- Ford Prefect
  
  A terrific comedian who liked to find the line to cross with the audience and then tiptoe along it.
  
  Also one of the funniest pieces of television in 8 out of 10 Cats Does Countdown, with the Carrot in a Box game.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:48am
Ra Henare

Covid crazy crap.
Endless doom and gloom
Why all the reference to NSW?

No reference to successful treatment strategies !!
Singapore has had over 66,000 cases with only 46 deaths
Why is that?
Even a blip from Delta over the last month has been contained.
and life is returning to normal, as normal as it can be.

Yes. A high rate of vaccination over the last 6 months.
But I suggest. Some true leadership
A PM who is not playing politics to get re elected and or trying to turn their country in to a socialist state.
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/singapore-prepares-long-term-life-death-with-covid-19-2021-08-17/
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August 19, 2021 8:04am
- kowtow
  
  ‘No reference to successful treatment strategies ‘
  
  The Media Pardy are largely to blame . They created the fear and panic around this from the outset , note too all their efforts to denigrate one of the sensible country approach to it , Sweden .
  
  Pollies ,always with an eye on retaining and increasing power then steeped up. Any who didn’t were mercilessly attacked.
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:56am
- PhilBest
  
  Singapore was also the first to develop “backwards contact tracing”.
  
  Instead of trying to trace forwards, all contacts of someone who is infected, they work out from circumstantial evidence WHERE that person got infected, focusing on indoors spaces with too many people for the available ventilation – then they trace everyone who was THERE.
  
  “Contact” and close proximity (droplets etc) has always been a red herring. Singapore worked out early on that 30 minutes or more presence in an infectious indoor environment was necessary to actually get sick or end up dead. So it was a waste of time forward-tracing; focus on the environments where people likely got an actual illness-causing infectious dose of virus. Discover these by backwards-tracing. Then trace forwards from “an event”, not from “an individual”.
  
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  August 19, 2021 1:58pm
Matt Long

A big welcome to the Auckland Covid refugees who came up with their boats and are fulling up Northland’s holiday spots, I hope you enjoy your stay.
If you have Covid symptoms or are a contact of any of the known cases you can still return today, you’ll do the right thing, won’t you?
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August 19, 2021 8:06am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Matt – Don’t think too many could have looked past Friday’s forecast. If lockdown is extended past then ( I’m picking at least 80 % chance it will) it’s going to be pretty uncomfortable anchoring on the east coast next week.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:39am
- kowtow
  
  Why they’d bring boats is a mystery .
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:57am
R

Thirty Israeli tourists have been infected with Covid while in Iceland. I don’t know how that could happen as they were all vaccinated, and the vaccine – we are told ad nauseum – is effective. Weird.

By the way, Iceland is already giving people booster shots.

https://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/news/news/2021/08/17/30_israeli_tourists_in_iceland_infected_with_covid_/
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August 19, 2021 8:07am
CAKE FACE1

Zero Covid is best described as a conspiracy theory in an endemic Ro world.

Who is spreading this conspiracy theory?

Obviously, the hand picked so-called “experts” – Baker, Skegg, Pinky, Hendy – are zero Ro mentalists.

The NZ government is running this zero Covid conspiracy theory as public policy. Every other country in the world thinks this conspiracy theory is insane.

How did we get to this?
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August 19, 2021 8:13am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Yes when will our freedom day be.
  
  Never if jacinda gets her way.
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:57am
  - Batman
    
    We had 160-odd freedom days in a row between the last level change and Tuesday.
    
    None of your family or friends have died from covid, unlike a lot of people overseas.
    
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    August 19, 2021 10:34am
    - kowtow
      
      We’re not “free” when we depend on the govt to tell us what we can and can’t do and as KK has shown above the dreaded Wuflu ain’t that bad.
      
      ‘the Covid-19 mortality curve closely reflects the normal, non-Covid-19 mortality curve’
      
      Well past time to ditch the emotion , fear and panic and start to follow the facts and the science .
      
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      August 19, 2021 11:16am
      - Batman
        
        Up until yesterday there were festivals, concerts, events, and literally any activity you like other than free travel overseas (which you can still do in some circumstances).
        
        If you wish to sacrifice your fellow Kiwis then just say so.
        
        Deaths per 1M in the UK? 1,800, and it’s 1,900 in the US. Far outstripping regular death rates normal times.
        
        In NZ the death rate is 5.2 per 1M.
        
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        August 19, 2021 3:29pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Can we discuss this stuff without the typical self righteous lefty style neck-vein popping, dinner-party shouting rage style hyperbole? EG: ” If you wish to sacrifice your fellow Kiwis then just say so.”
        
        I don’t think the full costs fallout from the “elimination” strategy are yet known. Sure, the band played on while the draw bridge was up 🙂 The party may well be over. Get back to us after 6 or so months of lockdown.
        
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        August 19, 2021 7:32pm
- RoboRob
  
  We were so successful with our initial lockdown, and the PR response for Labour was so good that they stuck with the zero target rather then risk negative PR from hospital overcrowding and deaths.
  
  It is a total political failure. The medical people are always going to be ultra cautious and advise for lock downs. The group you list seem particularly brain dead however! It is up to the politicians to look at the bigger picture and balance advice from other areas. We have seen this in many other countries, where politicians have not strictly followed the medical advice.
  
  My fear has always been that NZ would be stuck isolated from the world while other countries just get on with life. We are seeing this in the UK and US now.
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:06am
JibberJabber

“I think you have to be very careful using the word enemy”

Chief of the Defence Staff General Sir Nick Carter says “we have to be patient” and says the Taliban “want an Afghanistan that is inclusive for all”

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1427899515282116612

“They’re just country boys”

NC …” They just want a country that is inclusive for all”
KB…”except women”
NC…”we have to wait and see”

The western military is completely broken with woke clowns in leadership roles.
After 100 years since WW1, the British army is once again Lions led by Donkeys.
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August 19, 2021 8:16am
- CJames
  
  A very good speech in the British House of Commons by an Afghanistan veteran.
  https://youtu.be/FD-QghoefWU
  Why can’t we have such MPs? Oh that’s right, ours have no real world experience.
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:21am
- kowtow
  
  ‘Ludendorff: The English soldiers fight like lions.
  Hoffmann: True. But don’t we know that they are lions led by donkeys.’
  
  Well it was the Prussian strategy that the outside of the wheel could move as fast as the inside and that’s what led to the stalemate .
  
  The inventers of the phrase were the donkeys .
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:05am
- Ed Snack
  
  The Lions lead by donkeys is an unjustified slur on the British army leadership.
  
  By 1918, the British army was about the only force capable of and continuing to go forward and defeat what was left of the German army. Haig undoubtedly made a number of mistakes, all the generals on all sides did, but in the end he proved to be the best available, and outlasted all of his contemporaries and opponents.
  
  I think the most telling (and depressing) quote is from a French general “what ever you do, you lose a lot of men”.
  
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  August 19, 2021 12:00pm
- curry4me
  
  Jibber Jabber: A lot of Western generals are a disgrace to the uniform. I read an interesting article yesterday to the effect that standing armies are basically ready to go mercenaries. Sent to war, they don’t do well in the early stages. Then comes a draft, and the citizen army goes on to win. Standing armies also make permanent war easier.
  
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  August 19, 2021 3:59pm
krazykiwi

From The Telegraph:
Typically obedient New Zealanders start to chafe at Covid restrictions

As the island nation is plunged into a snap lockdown after just a handful of new cases, locals report growing resistance to the restrictions
:::
New Zealanders are beginning to show signs of resistance to the country’s tough Covid restrictions after the country was plunged into a snap lockdown over a single community case of Covid-19, its first in six months.
:::
Angus Verry, a heavy diesel technician, from the Waikato town of Cambridge, said shutting the entire country down for one community case “felt like a joke”. The 26-year-old was previously on-board with the country’s first lockdown.

“But we know more about Covid now and we know it’s always going to get in. It’s not practical to keep ‘eliminating’ it,” he said.

Mr Verry said he understood how people could feel compelled to protest against the latest lockdown announcement, but believed it was “counterproductive” when Covid had been found in the community.

A Waikato businessman, who asked not to be named due to the backlash that criticising government Covid policy can attract in New Zealand, said he was “very uncomfortable” with the precedent of going into a nationwide lockdown over a single case.

“People are sick of it. New Zealand still has a compliant population, but that won’t last forever,” he said.
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August 19, 2021 8:17am
- R
  
  The problem is that if we go into lockdown over a single case, will we have to wait for zero cases before we come out of lockdown? If so, we could be in for a very long wait.
  
  Once again, the Government has panicked and has no plan B.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:26am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I agree R. The PM and her closest advisors and Ministers have gone all-in on Zero Covid. But with two separate community incursions this week, from Japan and NSW, it seems likely that strategy will have to be reviewed, and that will represent a major change in direction.
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:37am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Yep,
      The Government will tell us that once they have worked out the transmission route of the virus, all is under control.
      
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      August 19, 2021 9:06am
  - kowtow
    
    Serious question.
    
    Have the powers that be been doing daily sewerage testing for this , and if not why not ?
    
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    August 19, 2021 10:12am
- PhilBest
  
  If we all merely had the right advice – that risk is associated with inhalation of aerosolized virus, which builds up indoors when ventilation is inadequate for the numbers of people present – we could easily look after ourselves and even acquire immunity from asymptomatic infections – which is what will happen if you are not at a superspreader venue for hours or working in a superspreader occupation like in a cool store, or living in a superspreader home like a rest home or a hotel block. And get plenty of fresh air every day.
  
  And use CO2 meters to establish whether an indoors environment is safe or not. People have started doing this in some parts of the world. Ambient CO2 is 430ppm. Old ventilation standards aimed for “below 1200” indoors. Brain damage starts to occur at 4000. Some crowded bars in NYC have registered 10,000.
  
  FFS, no wonder some parts of the world are more vulnerable than others.
  
  I am really heartened and confident when I am in the city here and I see cafes, restaurants, retail shops etc with doors propped open and windows wide open even in 8 degrees in the middle of winter. Common sense is trickling through even in spite of the manslaughtering incompetence of the global official networks that most government officials are in thrall to.
  
  And outdoors is perfectly safe – yes you might actually pick up enough trace of a virus, that hyper-dyper sensitive PCR will actually detect it – but you ain’t gonna get ill and neither is anyone else you “infect”. Outdoors is actually therapeutic and of major mitigatory application.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:28am
  - krazykiwi
    
    I see potential for changes to building HVAC systems.
    
    Aircraft cabins have air introduced at the top of the cabin, and vented out at floor level. This draws aerosols downwards and away from noses and mouths.
    
    By contrast, building HVAC has flow in and out via the ceiling cavity and this design holds exhaled aerosols in suspension for longer, closer to other noses and mouths.
    
    Bottom line: buliding HVAC systems should be designed more like aircraft.
    
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    August 19, 2021 9:44pm
- thirteenstars
  
  Goodness, “typically obedient New Zealanders”.
  
  I wonder how many Kiwis see that as an insult, because that’s what it is.
  
  Good. Wake up.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:31am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    “typically obedient New Zealanders”
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEdz9LONiQw
    
    Sums up our current sad case of affairs to a T ?
    
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    August 19, 2021 9:09am
  - Joe Kerr
    
    They only think “obedient New Zealanders” because they don’t know about the massive increase in gang members and illegal guns yet.
    
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    August 19, 2021 11:12am
- KevO'Brien
  
  NZ cannot afford the lock down either. Further, the mental health damage will be enormous–this doesn’t just affect adults. There could be another 6 months recovery to bring us back to where we were last week which was itself a long way back from where we once were.
  
  These socialist ideologues may prize one life more than anything but anything brings a lot more strife, hardship and deaths both near term and the future. Losing a handful can be preferred to losing a whole lot more.
  
  Mitigate not master.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:38am
- doggone7
  
  I wonder if the decisions based on ‘one single case’ were made by people with some knowledge of how things usually work. Cautious people at that.
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:44am
NK

Did the Australian Rugby Team bring Delta here? Facts: Given a MIQ exemption on 27 July by Grant Robertson provided they arrived within a week. They arrive in Auckland on 30 July. First Delta case appears to be 3 August in Auckland. They came from Queensland, not NSW.

Government denies all knowledge on how Delta arrived here, exactly as it did with the Americold outbreak last year, when both outbreaks could easily be the Government’s direct fault.
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August 19, 2021 8:18am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I think it’s unlikely that the Wallabies brought the Delta variant to New Zealand, given they had been in camp in Queensland after their final test match against the French on July 17th.
  
  However I do believe that their has been a breach of the border, which the Government is responsible for protecting, but I doubt we’ll ever hear the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:26am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The lastest delta variant is being attributed to the “vaccine” itself.
    
    Question: what PCR ratio has been used in the newly announced test results? What symptoms, if any, have been shown?
    The drastic action needs drastic justification: proof that the event as stated has actually occurred. Too many false positives have destroyed the credibility of the testing.
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:46am
Simon

Stay safe Afghanistan know that Jacinda is monitoring the situation. KeyA CarRa Afghanistan we have got this.
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August 19, 2021 8:21am
Tony Stuart

I find it absolutely astounding that only 40% of NZ Police staff have been vaccinated against Covid-19:

The Police Association is calling on the Government to come up with a plan in the next 24 hours to arrange emergency Covid-19 vaccinations for all officers and their families.

It comes after Police Commissioner Andrew Coster said at Wednesday’s press conference that only 40 per cent of police’s 10,000 staff across the country were vaccinated. He declined to say if he had approached the Government asking for police officers to be prioritised.

“It’s not really for me to comment on the conversations that we’ve had with ministers, but suffice to say we’re keen to get our workforce vaccinated – and we’re working as hard as we can to achieve that.”

Police were placed in group four along with the general population for Covid-19 vaccinations.

Police Association president Chris Cahill told Stuff on Wednesday he was “angry” about the low percentage of staff vaccinated.

“We warned the Government about this right from day one when they announced their prioritisation of the vaccines and police were put in (group) four.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/126114798/covid19-low-vaccination-rate-among-police-labelled-a-failure

Cahill is spot on; here’s a Stuff story dated 19 May 2021, three months ago today, where he bemoans the lack of prioritisation given to Police – https://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/125152262/police-too-far-down-the-queue-for-covid19-jabs-police-association-says

This is an appalling failure, both by the Commissioner of Police and the relevant Ministers, Covid Response Minister Chris Hipkins and Police Minister Poto Williams. In the case of the latter, it adds to Williams’ list of areas in which she has failed to support Police officers. At the Home Show I attended at the weekend to promote National, I spoke to a young Police officer who burst out laughing when I asked what they thought of their Minister.

Police are essential workers, and as recently as yesterday were out in the community, under Level Four conditions, breaking up lockdown protests. They are at the frontline every day, and they should have been among the first people to be vaccinated. For them to have been pushed so far down the priority list borders on dereliction of duty on behalf of those in charge.
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August 19, 2021 8:21am
- PhilBest
  
  And if any Police don’t want to be jabbed? Should they be sacked?
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:29am
  - Paulus
    
    All too little and too late – the Labour Party motto !
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:38am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    That’s an entirely separate issue Phil. The issue here is that Police were just chucked in with the general population in Group Four, because their Minister and Commissioner were either unable to successfully argue that Police were essential workers, or couldn’t be bothered going into bat for the Police.
    
    We’ve already heard the Minister of Police say that her constituency is Maori and Pasifika people, which makes me suspect that the latter option is far more likely. Poto Williams must be held to account for her repeated failures to stand up for the Police.
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:42am
    - cmm
      
      “Poto Williams must be held to account for her repeated failures to stand up for the Police.”
      
      I think she sees her role as to stand up against police.
      
      Something like how the Minister of Climate Change does what he can to oppose climate change (if we ignore all his jet-setting ways).
      
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      August 19, 2021 8:52am
      - Tricati
        
        Sorry, Poto has pamphlets to deliver so doesn’t have time for pesky ministerial responsibilities & duties.
        
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        August 19, 2021 9:25am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    An experimental “vaccine” cannot be mandated. in a civil society.
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:48am
- emmess
  
  Police are essential workers, and as recently as yesterday were out in the community, under Level Four conditions, breaking up lockdown protests.
  
  Someone should ask the officers if that is what they signed up for.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:31am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Fair point, but in reality, Police officers sign up to follow the orders of their superiors.
    
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    August 19, 2021 11:25am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Not only, they may not and should not follow illegal orders.
      
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      August 19, 2021 12:02pm
    - emmess
      
      Ah yes, the Nuremberg defence
      
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      August 19, 2021 2:17pm
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Should they be out stopping people from protesting?
  
  They are going to congregate regardless.
  
  They escorted the black lives matters protests, much bigger crowds and zero distancing etc.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:34am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  NZ didn’t have enough vaccines on hand when Group 1 was to be vaccinated…that’s why Police, Port workers, school teachers etc were overlooked as essential workers.
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:11am
  - Prince
    
    We went late and soft with ordering vaccines.
    
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    August 19, 2021 9:26am
- Joe Kerr
  
  It would only be astounding if they number vaccinated does not match the number WANTING to be vaccinated.
  
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  August 19, 2021 11:14am
- DeepBlue
  
  I think it was that Williams and Coster didn’t go into bat for their workers. I thought I heard Jacinda say in the standup questioning that the Police had every opportunity to be vaccinated. I may be confused, but it is shocking that they haven’t had that opportunity.
  
  I can see the Optics for the Minister … we can’t possibly give vaccines to Police before we have more Maori and Pacifica vaccinated as that would be institutional racism and I must protect “my people”. She should be fired.
  
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  August 19, 2021 11:24am
3-coil

Our drongo Labour government are now looking for the link between NSW covid strain and the Auckland covid outbreak. The bright spark, rising-star Labour covid minister Ayesha Verrall granted a quarantine exemption to the Australian rugby Wallabies, so their team and entourage (50 individuals?) could enter Auckland from Sydney for the “important economic activity” of a rugby test. Can she reassure us now that our outbreak had nothing to do with the Wallabies special treatment? And Grunter Robertson can likewise reassure us the $17m pumped into the NZ economy from the rugby game was worth the risk, when weighed up against the $1.5billion cost (so far, and climbing) of the covid outbreak and Level4 shutdown.
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August 19, 2021 8:21am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Your taking the piss right.
  
  The masses need distractions like rugby matches, to take attention away from what the government are doing or not doing.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:37am
- Tony Stuart
  
  See my reply to NK above. The Wallabies have been based in Queensland since mid-July.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:43am
  - Tall Man
    
    And yet we have covid outbreaks in Queensland with an infected person visiting Hervey Bay.
    
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    August 19, 2021 2:01pm
MrTips

Last night at 615pm NZT, a rather interesting interview took place on BBC Scotland. Chris Wands interviewed Michael Baker re our new lockdown but also the concept of “elimination”.
Go here, at about 73-74 minutes in: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000yshm

Wands was sceptical of Baker’s continued exhortations that elimination was achievable and sustainable. Its clear that COVID would run through a vaccinated population anyway. Baker was steadfast in his refusal to accept this, citing polio and measles as cases that prove his point.

All of which means he thinks we should be vaccinated to the eyeteeth forever and possibly have continued localised lockdowns – that is the only way we would achieve permanent elimination. “We don’t want to live with it” is his mantra.

The man is a fanatical zealot who presents a very dangerous public health ideology imo.
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August 19, 2021 8:24am
- PhilBest
  
  But polio and measles have NOT been “eliminated” if you go looking for them with the hyper-hyper sensitive PCR test.
  
  The PCR test will detect the traces of virtually everything that has ever done the rounds in humanity, even without having made people ill.
  
  This is the reality that is central to the fraud of this entire pandemic. The longer time goes on, the higher the proportion of PCR test positives are irrelevant as an indication of actual illness transmitting through the population. It is the “traces” that will be there forever.
  
  The outbreaks of respiratory illnesses now are to be expected from Immune Deficit, immune systems atrophying after months of lockdown. Some people will be getting infected with Covid itself for the first time and it will hit them harder because of Immune Deficit. But myriads of people will be getting hit with influenzas, RSV, common cold viruses, rhinoviruses, etc and getting sicker than they normally would have. And of course this is “Covid” every time.
  
  We should even expect non-respiratory transmissable illnesses to be breaking out all over the place. NZ is luckier than most places – months of lockdown guarantees a crisis of Immune Deficit.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:40am
  - crikey
    
    The potentially fatal flaw with the PCR test for Covid-19 is whether it detects intact and therefore infect-able virus.
    
    My understanding is that is detects (amplifies a section of) the spike proteins. If detection does not require a conformationally-intact virus, positive ‘cases’ are likely to be vastly over-estimated. What is being detected in waste water, for example? More detail on the science behind the PCR (screening) test would be informative.
    
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    August 19, 2021 10:38am
    - PhilBest
      
      There have been positive PCR tests of wastewater samples held in archives, months too early for the orthodox spread narrative. Barcelona in March 2019 is the most startling one. There are others since then, from all around the world, Italy, France, Brazil, too early for November spread from Wuhan. It is suprising how this is not part of the discussion – do we assume the testing is awry? Hah – what would be the implications of THAT, then?
      
      It is a fact that many viruses, including the current one, are not in fact “imaged” intact, ever. The pictures we see are computer-generated “artists impressions”. Viruses are even too microscopic to provide a detectable color signal. Virology went the “computer modelling” route 2 decades ago; they identify genetic debris from infectious cases (animals, humans) and piece together a jigsaw puzzle of the bits that seem to fit. It is like solving a jigsaw puzzle, except you have to find the pieces of the puzzle you are trying to assemble, amongst the pieces of a few thousand other jigsaw puzzles.
      
      It is common for virology done on the computer, for “missing pieces” to be “filled in” on the assumption that they “must be there”.
      
      I have only learned all this since Covid.
      
      My logical mind immediately asks the question: is it impossible that there is actually two or more different things “happening” to cause a particular “disease”, and the genetic debris that is present in the “cases” might not be from one single reconstructable virus? And furthermore, might not even be “causative” but merely “correlative” with the disease?
      
      Here’s my intuitive pick for the inputs that came together to cause “the Covid-19 pandemic”.
      
      Bat populations surging in many urban areas, partly from protected-species orders, partly from mosquito resurgence after DDT bans (bats eat them and people in some parts of the world encourage bats by building “roosts” for them because they keep the mosquitoes down).
      
      “Ventilation” being abandoned as a health priority, in the cause of “energy efficient” buildings. Sick building syndrome hit its peak in 2020. The price of energy being inflated by government policy, so that people tend to use more “air recirculation” to save on the cost of heating or cooling air. In rest homes, this is bordering on manslaughter.
      
      Rather than one virus, it is perfectly possible that humanity has been bringing on itself, a coincidence and a concentration of pathogens that results in a particular illness. Most of the time, the concentration and the coincidence is weak enough that people don’t get sick.
      
      People have this mental image of scientists with intact viruses before them, magnified sufficiently, with which they play “gain of function” games by splicing and grafting and so on. The reality is that they look for genetic debris in test animals, they infect other test animals with combinations of the debris, and then test body fluids of the newly-sick animals for evidence – in the form of genetic debris – of a newly combined virus. Months of experimentation is necessary to try and eliminate the possibility that there is no new virus, but merely the same separate pathogens getting transmitted forwards.
      
      People are ascribing FAR TOO MUCH “agency” and certainty to “virology”.
      
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      August 19, 2021 2:22pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Polio and measles were respectable diseases. They were tested against symptoms. NO PCR for them.
  
  The vaccines were genuine vaccines too creating human antibodies not creating an invasive protein that could have resulted in damage claims, if Pfizer and others hadn’t contracted to avoid that.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:54am
  - PhilBest
    
    Exactly! And if you used PCR now, on millions of people, you would find Polio and Measles.
    
    Coincidentally, I bought a book 25 years ago, “The Hidden Viruses Within You” by Dr Bruce Duncan, that explained all this – and he wasn’t even going by PCR, he had a hypothesis that was good enough.
    
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    August 19, 2021 10:16am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      PCR is quite neat really, it can match almost any sequence with sufficient replications. It may have a use in a lab but it has potential as a weapon in Nu Tirani.
      
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      August 19, 2021 12:06pm
      - PhilBest
        
        And that is another important point too, you are onto it, Kev. “With sufficient replications”.
        
        It would probably be possible to detect measles and polio and HIV in most people, at a much lower level of replication than the testing being used for Covid.
        
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        August 19, 2021 2:24pm
- Cinematic
  
  Baker and the rest of this mob are running an extreme medical agenda. Compared with the rest of the world. What started as ‘flatten the curve’ has now morphed into an ideological unrealistic pursuit of perfection. It is madness.
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:17am
- Ed Snack
  
  Polio and measles almost disprove his point ! Both have vaccines that are effective at the 99% level or beyond.
  
  If we had a 99% effective Covid vaccine we would be in a different position. We don’t.
  
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  August 19, 2021 12:05pm
fightingtemeraire

Austin Mitchell the UK Labour MP and a good guy who wrote the half gallon quarter acre pavlova paradise about NZ has died in the UK
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August 19, 2021 8:24am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/18/austin-mitchell-obituary
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/18/former-great-grimsby-labour-mp-austin-mitchell-dies-aged-86
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:24am
Ruahine

This is to any of the worlds media representatives who may read this blog. There has been criticism of the New Zealand Government for ‘shutting’ down the country because there was a single case of a person having Covid-19.
No. This was not the case at all. The lock down was put in place by the government because they knew that there were far more cases of people having Covid-19 in the community than just the one.
The people of New Zealand were only told there was one during the Prime Minister TV extravaganza to try and minimise the failure of the Health Department and hence the failure of the Government.
We are lied to all the time and information is withheld from us by the government all the time.
You, the worlds Media, made the mistake of believing what the Government of New Zealand said.
Many of us in New Zealand are quite skeptical of nearly everything regarding the handling of Covid-19 by this government and its health officials.
The shame is with the New Zealand Government for lying. Please remember that in New Zealand all Main Stream Media is paid by the Government.
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August 19, 2021 8:24am
JibberJabber

“Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him.”
–Aristotle [‘Politics’, Book 5 Part 11]
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August 19, 2021 8:25am
kowtow

Many commentators are comparing the so called fall of Kabul to that of Saigon and calling them both massive American military failures .

Neither was a US military failure , they were US political failures .
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August 19, 2021 8:25am
- emmess
  
  To go further, the were Biden failures
  
  He partially responsible for the fall of Saigion as was in the senate in 1975 when they voted to defund the South Vietnamese government.
  He is 100% responsible for the fall of Kabul
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:35am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The USA failure was being in Afghanistan at all. Poppies were a powerful draw.
    
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    August 19, 2021 8:56am
    - Bluegrass
      
      Ever heard of 9/11, bud?
      
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      August 19, 2021 10:45am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        The history of that is too murky to comment on. Did the Taiban really plant the bombs that demolished the towers? There is a great deal more…
        
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        August 19, 2021 12:09pm
      - Paulus
        
        Nearly all the people behind 9/11 were actually Saudi Arabians.
        
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        August 19, 2021 1:37pm
    - Master Mariner
      
      Swap poppies for pipelines.
      
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      August 19, 2021 11:18am
  - virtualmark
    
    Really???
    
    You can read the agreement that Trump signed with the Taliban at https://2017-2021.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Signed-Agreement-02292020.pdf
    
    In that deal the Taliban promised not to hurt the Americans (Part Two) and in return they got:
    * a complete withdrawal of all US troops and contractors (Part One A & B,
    * the immediate release of thousands of Taliban prisoners – you, know the ones guilty of terrorism, stoning women, blowing up US/UK troops, that sort of thing (Part One C),
    * all sanctions/bounties on the Taliban dropped (Part One D),
    * a promise the US wouldn’t threaten the Taliban ever again or interfere in the running of their new caliphate (Part One E),
    * some unclear level of financial support (Part Three 3)
    
    This was basically something like the Treaty of Versaille, drafted by the Taliban.
    
    Biden, to his credit, chose to honour these commitments and leave. And to be fair he’s the only President who’s actually had a family member deployed into Afghanistan – so in that regard he likely has a good appreciation of America’s sacrifices.
    
    But the hardest manoeuvre is an orderly retreat. If you lose a war there isn’t a nice uniformed doorman ushering you out to your car. It’s a messy scramble. Which is what we’re seeing.
    
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    August 19, 2021 11:24am
    - Batman
      
      Its either a messy scramble or your entire force is obliterated, as German Armies in the East could tell you… except that they were annihilated.
      
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      August 19, 2021 11:42am
    - Ed Snack
      
      If the original date of 1 May had been adhered to, then it would have still been effectively winter and the Taliban could not have moved in so quickly.
      
      Plus the chaos of the actual evacuation could have been significantly reduced with a modicum of planning, like maybe retaining Bagram airfield with its multiple runways.
      
      No one is actually really blaming the Biden administration for withdrawing, but for the complete fuck up of the actual withdrawal itself.
      
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      August 19, 2021 12:10pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Ed,
        
        Can’t say about May vs August, but I doubt it would have changed much.
        
        I agree re keeping Bagram seems like it would have been the sensible plan. But I really don’t think that Joe Biden makes those operational decisions (nor Trump before him).
        
        I could believe that the (military) left hand didn’t closely coordinate the withdrawal with the (State) right hand, hence the chaos.
        
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        August 19, 2021 12:50pm
    - emmess
      
      What a pathetic excuse
      Biden hasn’t stood by any of other Trumps agreements
      
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      August 19, 2021 3:32pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Could simply be that Biden agrees with this one.
        
        I’m not at all a Trump fan, but I do think getting out of Afghanistan is a good call and I won’t criticise Trump for starting that process off.
        
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        August 20, 2021 10:34am
Greg Ettridge

Shows 60% are actually retaining their right to decide with their medical professional what their private medical requirements are.
How many in the Ministry of Health are fully vaccinated?
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August 19, 2021 8:26am
- PhilBest
  
  YES! Gary Moller nails that here:
  
  https://www.garymoller.com/post/why-we-must-support-and-empower-our-general-practitioner-doctors?postId=b1dec8f1-4ca1-4dee-bc18-effa95507781
  
  “… I have been the fly on the wall watching the transformation of the way health operates in New Zealand, and it has not been for the better. Despite the massive increases in healthcare costs, we are less healthy today than in the 1960s. New Zealand has gone from being one of the healthiest countries in the developed world to be one of the least healthy. We have gone from being one of the least medicated people to being in the top 3-4!
  
  I have witnessed the gradual infiltration and hijacking of all levels and sectors of healthcare by Big Pharma, Big Food, and other commercially-driven interests, all of which profit from ill health – not from good health. This progressive infiltration of medicine by undesirable forces includes a massive increase in both the numbers and the power of medical specialists, academic health experts, technocrats and health bureaucrats. This is not another whacky conspiracy theory; this is the reality of the commercial world. Medicine is a great place to do business!
  
  Consequently, there is the undermining of the authority of the GP and their ability to do their jobs. Our GPs, and medicine as a whole, have ceased to treat the “root causes” of ill-health and are now almost entirely devoted to responding to after-the-fact diseases, symptoms – not causes. Of course, this plays beautifully into the hands of the industries that develop and supply drugs, screening and imaging machines and surgical procedures and implants.
  
  There is no money to be made from healthy people; the best money comes from people, ill from the cradle to the grave. How long a person lives is irrelevant to this warped model of health; most relevant is how much money they can extract before death from each person’s pockets, and indirectly via taxpayer dollars.
  
  The GP consultation is now limited to around 10 minutes, sometimes less, of face-to-face contact between doctor and patient. There is no such thing as a house visit by your Family Doctor anymore. All the GP has time for is to prescribe a drug from the Pharmac database of approved drugs, order a test, or refer the patient to an allied health professional or a specialist. There is no time for anything else.
  
  I sense we are entering a crisis regarding General Practice, and I am not alone with having these concerns. Many GPs are close to retirement age or already past it, and there are not enough graduating doctors to fill the vacancies. In addition, many new GP doctors are unhappy with the high workloads, oppressive restrictions on how they may practice and the insufficient income after clinic expenses. I sense more GPs than ever are tiring and moving into other areas such as jobs with biotech firms or the Government. This is not good for you and me.
  
  The GP of old times used to have much more flexibility with making clinical decisions. However, what a GP prescribes nowadays is excessively influenced by out of touch health professionals and administrators. Most of these managers have little or no clinical experience, or it was too long ago to now be clinically relevant. These include the health professionals who realised early in their careers that they could not stand the sight of blood, the smell of pus, or to deal all day with snotty-nosed children and needy people. So they switched to paper-pushing and policy-making with agencies like the Health Department or WHO or went to work for the biotech industry. Along with Policy Analysts and other experts in theory alone and nothing practical, they now tell highly qualified and experienced GPs how to do their jobs.
  
  This last year may be the straw that breaks the back of GP medicine…”
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:31am
  - cmm
    
    Modern GPs pretty much work off checklists on a website and are pressured to do what they can in a 15-20 minute appointment.
    
    That is not really an environment where highly intelligent people thrive and can give their best to society.
    
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    August 19, 2021 9:17am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep,
    given a choice between my local GP or a midwife who breezes in and out of your life, I know who I’d prefer overseeing my pregnancy, delivery and post-natal care.
    
    There were only 14 obstetrician GPs left in 2005.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/one-of-few-remaining-gps-handling-deliveries-quits/SK247S24W7FZHT5D4UCIKZLRBU/
    
    Helen Clark sure gutted the system:
    
    Problems go back to money and ideology. GPs practised the medical model: healthy mother and baby first, fulfilling experience second. Midwives aimed for natural childbirth: fulfilling experience first, medical intervention second.
    
    30 years on..and I don’t think we have a great maternity service.
    
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    August 19, 2021 9:40am
- Paulus
  
  Bloomfield says he will get his first vaccination this coming Sunday.
  Finally like my 81 year old wife too.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:40am
emmess

I listened to John Key on the Leighton Smith podcast yesterday
https://player.fm/series/the-leighton-smith-podcast/leighton-smith-podcast-episode-124-august-18th-2021

It was recorded on Monday or Tuesday, I think

One comment stood out to me, he said Afghanistan had taken the lead story on ‘the news’ for the first time since the pandemic began.

Oh, and what happens the very next day?
How convenient
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August 19, 2021 8:29am
Happychappy

New Level 4: This lockdown is different with new rules to combat Delta and the Police mean business.
This is a bit rich from our woke Police Commissioner when the Police couldn’t even handle our Quarantine facilities when Covid- 19 first arrived in New Zealand and had to hand it over to the Defense Force, then they allow the Mongrel Mob to do what they want on our streets in Towns and Cities around New Zealand, but are good at making threats to ordinary New Zealander’s over the Covid- 19 lockdown.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/08/new-alert-level-4-this-covid-19-lockdown-is-different-with-new-rules-to-combat-delta-and-police-mean-business.html
Jacinda Ardern is a expert on how to devide New Zealander’s but is hopeless at at just about everything apart from using Pandemics and Tragedy to gain the vote.
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August 19, 2021 8:32am
- thirteenstars
  
  Yes, and look at the language in that story. It’s not reporting, it’s written like a government press release. Or a National Party press release. I can’t really tell what the difference would be anymore.
  
  Perhaps someone could tell me what National’s position is on the latest measures and police powers?
  
  Regardless, where are these regulations written down? Where is the actual text that specifies the police powers to fine and arrest for not wearing a mask?
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:21am
- cmm
  
  Will they still mean business when a gang member’s funeral gets out of hand?
  
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  August 19, 2021 1:15pm
hullkiwi

Does anyone know what has happened to Garner.

Were his 9th August attacks in his opinion piece about the govt’s good luck with Covid too much for somebody at MediaWorks and he has also been a victim of their “boys club culture” purge?

Because everything Garner wrote in his 9/08/2021 was true. The government had had good luck with Covid at the border. We learned then that port workers were not vaccinated and weren’t being regularly tested. Then yesterday (with the country under level 4 lockdown), we learn:
1. that the delta variant has probably been circulating in the community since the beginning of the month;
2. that the Devonport case is probably not the original case;
3. The genome points to Sydney.

What we weren’t told the source.

All of the above probably means it was the case transferred to Auckland Hospital, and that everything around the management and care of MIQ cases has been and remained until Monday a big instance of good luck.

Well now the luck has run out, and as yesterday’s poll on the am Show demonstrated, a sizeable percentage of peop”le are now agree, that all the sacrifice for 18 months, and all the “dead rats” we have been forced fed via NZ’ bought and paid for media, is nothing more than a steaming pile of manure.

Is it any wonder, Kiwis are now disillusioned and angry!
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August 19, 2021 8:33am
cmm

It is absolutely irresponsible for an expert to be using terms like “scary”.

“Otago University epidemiologist Michael Baker told Newstalk ZB the new date was remarkable, scary – and very worrying.”

But these people have a vested interest in fear porn. Without all the CV19 fear, Baker, Hendy etc would not be getting their mugs in the paper.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-ashley-bloomfield-gives-case-update-expert-on-scary-auckland-location-of-interest-date-that-goes-back-15-days/SZDNUY5VYAYHTBXZC5RMJ3R2MY/
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August 19, 2021 8:36am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Baker also said yesterday that it was good that they had found a connection to the border.
  
  There’s just one problem; the 60-year-old woman with the connection to the border is the Air New Zealand crew member who tested positive to Covid after returning on a flight from Japan at the weekend. Dr Bloomfield has stated on the radio this morning it is unlikely this case is related to the NSW incursion, so as well as being back to square one finding the source of the Devonport cluster, we have two active community incursions of Delta to deal with.
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:47am
RW Capitalist

Did some surfing (net) yesterday.
“hydroxychloroquil and covid 19”
check it out, see if you notice the difference.
Those articles dated 2020, were negative but only said there was no proof of it’s efficacy no studies etc.
2021, they were quoting studies that said, basically, that under limited circumstances, hydroxychloroquil was effective at preventing symptoms of covid19 and hospitalizations (deaths?).
The difference in the tone….(Trump v Biden?)
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August 19, 2021 8:40am
Southern Raider

I’m sick of the Govt line that the low vaccination rates are the responsibility of the population who were slow to get vaccinated

Almost everyone I know wants to get vaccinated, many used back doors like walking into clinics to get vaccinated and others are still waiting. All because the Govt programme was a joke and if you wanted to get vaccinated you couldn’t

I was in one of the priority groups and offical line is wait and you will all be contacted by x date. Do you think I was ever contacted?
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August 19, 2021 8:41am
- cmm
  
  Well someone has to go under the bus – and it’s not going to be Cindy or a minister.
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:18am
- PeeJay
  
  Agreed.
  
  Wife and I were scheduled for Wednesday then cancelled – not rescheduled but flat out cancelled. Had to go back on and re-book many weeks later, both of us at different locations! Doesn’t bother me too much as I’m not too worried about it but happy to go through with it, but bloody irritating.
  
  Farcical is probably not strong enough of a phrase to describe this shit show.
  
  Only bright spot is the wife who was a fully paid up member of the ‘Jacinda is wonderful’ brigade is seriously wavering now!
  
  Suspect it won’t last too long, but it’s a start!
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:49am
Whare Potahau

After the 1pm press conference yesterday where I heard that vaccinations were being opened to 40 year group and that some vaccination centers were re-opening I went to the official MOH book a vaccination website. I am 49 and had not been able to book up to now. After initially not being able to connect I managed to book a jab for 4pm yesterday. Yes I was surprised that I could get one so early but thought maybe they had a cancellation. I drove to the vaccination center in Upper Hutt and it was all locked up.
So the official website allowed me to book a vaccination and the vaccination center was not operating. I phoned the MOH help line and was told that I should not have been able to make a booking – no sh%t.
This just reflects the ongoing failure to deliver. I now can book a slot for mid September. Hoping the virus does not make its way to Wellington. I thought we were front of queue for the vaccine.
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August 19, 2021 8:42am
- Ehlana
  
  I registered on the vaccination website when it opened and got a message the day my age group became eligible. I was able to book a slot a few days later and my follow-up jab at the same time. I even got reminder messages.
  So it does work sometimes. But appears to be hit and miss.
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:20am
  - Southern Raider
    
    Main issue I believe is up until last week there was no central online booking system. The MoH left it to each DHB to manage bookings via a whole wide variety of systems and tools to woeful effect.
    
    The online system should have been live in March and we would have been miles ahead and maybe only second last in the OECD
    
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    August 19, 2021 10:22am
- BananaLlama
  
  I was able to receive a booking one week from now by phoning up the help line and seeing which slots were available across multiple centers. I have to drive two hours there and back but that’s fine as I just want it over and done with as soon as possible.
  Maybe you could try your luck doing the same?
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:51am
  - Southern Raider
    
    Issue is the pubic information to date was around “wait until you are contacted” and so being compliant kiwis that is what we do, however we are quickly discovering we can’t rely on MoH to organise a piss up and the only way to get vaccinated to be proactive and call the hotline
    
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    August 19, 2021 10:33am
    - kowtow
      
      That’s a curly one.
      
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      August 19, 2021 11:19am
- hullkiwi
  
  We were able to book our 12 year old for a jab via the Covid website. There are probably no controls on the age groups allowed to book a jab, based on what we found.
  
  Also don’t use the telephone booking service. I used the service, but I suspect it is being run from abroad. You deal with Pete with American/Filipino accents who use the odd Kiwism too often, but don’t know that Albany is closer to Warkworth than Birkenhead or that the nearby vaccination centre is in Wellsford. Even worse Wellsford I could get the jab next day, while Albany was a 2 month wait.
  
  We are but 1 family finding this, how many more tales of stupidity are there? All pointing to regime being run on a wing and a prayer, good luck, and relying on journalists not asking difficult questions.
  
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  August 19, 2021 11:16am
  - Flossie
    
    That may well have been your experience but mine was great. I got a phone call asking if I’d like to book a vaccination. I said yes please, and can we book my partner too. No trouble at all… we were both booked at a time, date and place that suited us, as well as a second appointment 3 weeks down the track. The person on the phone was obviously a kiwi woman (allowed to say that??) and was kind, easily understood, and extremely patient.
    
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    August 19, 2021 1:13pm
    - Tall Man
      
      “kiwi woman (allowed to say that??)”
      
      The fact that you felt the need to add that shows how fucked up our world has bencome.
      
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      August 19, 2021 1:40pm
- septic skeptic
  
  How fucking stupid is it to close the vaccination centres throughout the country due to a small initial outbreak in the upper NI.
  
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  August 19, 2021 11:19am
  - Nickc2
    
    That’s code for they are running low on vaccines again. My local vaccine centre is closed for training of all things. How the eff?
    Reading between the lines, there is a Venue of Interest (supermarket) in the same building as my local vaccine centre which has been visited by a Covid-19 Mod D carrier and the troops in the vaccination centre won’t work there until such time as the whole building is deep-cleaned (a massive task). No mention of this in the MSM to date.
    
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    August 19, 2021 12:50pm
    - septic skeptic
      
      Birkenhead? That’s where we got our shots. They were running level 3 or 4 social distancing even back then with no covid. One would assume all the staff are fully vaccinated now anyway, so why would they need a deep clean? Anyway, it doesn’t sound like these guys are dedicated health professionals if they are hiding at home.
      
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      August 19, 2021 2:13pm
RW Capitalist

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html#polls
OH dear…….
Bidens numbers as people wake up.
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August 19, 2021 8:43am
- Inandout
  
  RW, Norton prevented an attack on that site so someone is shielding Joe. I heard he threw the old Covid stuff in a speech and then scuttled off so he couldn’t be questioned on Afghanistan. He is dog tucker.
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:37am
thirteenstars

From Gab news:

It has been widely reported that Taliban leaders used Facebook’s WhatsApp and Twitter to help capture Kabul. Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid enjoys free reign on Twitter with an account that has over 300,000 followers.

Facebook’s WhatsApp has become the de facto communication platform of the Taliban, who reportedly used the service to spread propaganda, communicate with residents of Kabul, and share official statements with the world.
…
Meanwhile Twitter and Facebook banned the sitting President of the United States back in January and millions of conservative Christians face shadowbans, deplatforming, and blacklisting at the hands of Big Tech companies. If you are a Christian conservative in the United States of America you are treated worse and have less freedom online than the Taliban.

Now I’m not a “conservative Christian”, I’m an an atheist libertarian, but when the actual terrorists have social media accounts and those that criticise the terrorists are banned, you know your culture is in trouble.

https://news.gab.com/2021/08/17/big-techs-role-in-helping-the-taliban-capture-afghanistan/
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August 19, 2021 8:45am
MCos

Personally I’m somewhat weary of all the covid-19 stories clogging up the ether.
Everyone’s an expert. Everyone has their own intractable versions of where things should go from here.
So by way of a change here’s an opinion piece on the what’s happened in Afghanistan over the last wee while from an American’s point of view
https://www.stonekettle.com/2021/08/bitter-pill.html
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August 19, 2021 8:47am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  I’m getting some feedback that erstwhile Jacinda supporters are getting upset at the number of Covid-19 stories (many science confirmed) in the ether that counter the caring lockdown approach taken by our prinzess…
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:07am
- Bluegrass
  
  @ MCos The author of the opinion piece by his own admission suffers from severe TDS, but stripping his loaded comments aside, I agree that the US made a huge mistake in not quitting Afghanistan after Bin laden was eliminated in Pakistan. The take-out is – never underestimate the US military/industrial clout in US affairs, irrespective of which party is in the wheelhouse.
  
  It resulted in 20 years of kicking the can down the road and we are here today with the consequences – although the actual withdrawal has been a military shambles and that is on Biden’s watch.
  
  Trump was voted in largely due to his platform of reducing big government, avoiding further US military adventures, reigning in the administrative arm of government, and enforcing existing immigration law/protecting the borders.
  
  As a non-career politician (much like Ross Perot before him years ago) he was anathema to the establishment, and loathed equally by the apparatchiks and nomenklatura of both parties (who are in many respects just two ears on the same hog).
  
  As an American am I pleased we are out of Afghanistan? Yes.
  
  Am I pleased how that is being currently executed? Hell, no.
  
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  August 19, 2021 11:22am
  - Bluegrass
    
    //reining in – altho reigning in works…
    
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    August 19, 2021 12:01pm
rjay

Last week The Project skewered a self confessed psychic for predicting a lock down in NZ. And I joined in the ridicule. Too early?
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/08/covid-19-self-proclaimed-mystic-s-damaging-new-zealand-lockdown-prediction-on-tiktok-falls-short.html
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August 19, 2021 8:48am
MrTips

Whoops, the AZ vaccine is full of 1000+ protein/peptide impurities , specifically human and non-structural viral proteins that are likely linked to the observed adverse reaction of sinus venous thrombosis.

Not a good look, even though the paper is still in review.
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August 19, 2021 8:51am
- krazykiwi
  
  This is why AZ has been dubbed The Clot Shot in the UK.
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:23am
dcrane

Haven’t seen anyone mention this yet, but who in the government thinks it’s still a good idea to have the covid public announcements read out by a gooey-voiced actress who sounds like she’s trying to sell you something?

Every time that media-relations-tested voice purrs from my car radio to tell me how obviously safe the vaccine is, I become less likely to opt-in.
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August 19, 2021 8:52am
Surely Knott

COVID TIMELINE

13 August. “Ministry of Health Assures kiwis rumours of imminent lockdown not true”
“Healthline was reporting many rumours relating to Covid – 19 and lockdowns circulation. None of the reported rumours are true” (Ah yeah ok)

17 August – NZ has one case of covid in community – Devonport Man case A. MOH says “The man became symptomatic on Saturday (14 August), and was likely infectious since Thursday (12 August)”

18 August 11 cases of covid. At the end of the day they revise the times and say the earliest location of interest is Sumpthin Dumplin – Tuesday 3 August! followed by 6th August Lynn Mall

Who went to Sumpthin Dumplin on 3rd of August? Was it Devonport Man? Has he been sick since the 3rd now? And then went to coromandel? Or does the new date mean it was someone else. And therefore is someone else case A?

6th August at Lynn Mall in west Auckland. There is a west auckland teacher with Covid. Is she Case A? She is the sister of the Nurse. Is the Nurse Case A. How do they know Somethin Dumplin is a location of interest if Devonport man was only infectious since the 12th.

But the govt refutes the idea that we would lockdown and that it was circulating in the commuity on the 13th august, that is not why they did a mass mailout for vaccinations last week?
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August 19, 2021 8:59am
- Surely Knott
  
  Stuff has turned off comments on it
  s article “Latest Auckland Locations of Interest Date Back Two Weeks.”!!! There is only one group spreading misinformation and it’s not the public.
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:33am
  - miltonF
    
    Bingo. Our own govt and media are, and always have been the source of conspiracy theory. Why else would they constantly censor the truth?
    
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    August 19, 2021 4:07pm
Ron Jeremy

Listening to Barry Soper re Covindas reluctance to answer tough questions from reporters should concern us all. The government is elected by the people and should be answerable to all the people not just those who are favoured by the PM. The fact that she refuses to go Newstalk and talk to the Hosk who has the highest listen ship in the country is appalling in my view . Does anyone else have major concerns re the lack of accountability in all this ? This virus has been around for a while now yet our government seems way more reactive than proactive which is very concerning . I’m picking that we are going to be locked down for a lot longer that 3 days .
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August 19, 2021 9:00am
- lifesgood
  
  Yep…looking at months.
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:57am
- virtualmark
  
  (Shrug)
  
  If Jacinda chooses not to speak to the country’s largest radio audience of voters then won’t that in turn hurt her rather than help her? I can’t get worked up about it because in the end she will bear the cost, or not, of that decision.
  
  What I can’t figure out though is why Hosking hasn’t given that weekly slot over to Seymour or Collins instead.
  
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  August 19, 2021 11:30am
  - Tall Man
    
    $55 million 😉
    
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    August 19, 2021 1:34pm
  - artemisia
    
    The empty chair is a potent symbol. Even on the wireless.
    
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    August 19, 2021 4:51pm
- thirteenstars
  
  It’s sheer bloody arrogance. Remember Commissioner Bush last year, stiff, a barely disguised sneer on his face, his attitude: you’ll be told what we want you to know and when we want you to know it, and until then do what you’re told.
  
  His replacement, Coster, seems to combine Bush’s know-nothingness with an obtuse disingenuity, which I didn’t think was even possible. He’s happy to break up protests and arrest citizens exercising their rights but lets Tangata Whenua types block public highways with impunity.
  
  NZ is full of little authoritarians, and we used to poke fun at their white coats and clipboards, but it ain’t so funny now.
  
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  August 19, 2021 12:54pm
- Weinerpoop
  
  Totally agree, not going on with Hosking has certainly damaged her reputation and that of the govt. We went into lockdown last year to help the govt prepare for covid coming and they have done SFA since then. They are totally unprepared and it has just been blind luck we haven’t had it earlier.
  
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  August 19, 2021 2:29pm
  - Ron Jeremy
    
    I think she’s knows her weeny poo will turn into a big pile
    
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    August 19, 2021 4:49pm
emmess

I want to take a poll on the worst US president ever, at least for the last 100 years or so

Thumbs up if you vote Biden
Thumbs down and reply with a comment if you vote for anyone else
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August 19, 2021 9:01am
- dcrane
  
  Ticked up, not so much about Biden but because the govt that Biden represents must be the worst in US history. Biden himself is a mentally declining suit stuffed with lobbyist dollars, nothing that special either way.
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:01am
  - Batman
    
    “a mentally declining suit stuffed with lobbyist dollars.”
    
    The cognitive dissonance to say this and not realise you’re describing the last guy is *chef’s kiss*. That guy had his main tax Bill written by hedge fund lobbyists in McConnell’s office.
    
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    August 19, 2021 10:30am
    - dcrane
      
      Trump did have a few powerful people behind him, that Nevada casino magnate (Adelson) comes to mind. Otherwise the corporates hated him, which is why we witnessed the spectacle of the powerful establishments of both parties uniting to give him the shove, largely unfairly.
      
      Anyway, your response is a standard dodge. If Biden wasn’t an empty bought suit, you could show how what I said was wrong.
      
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      August 19, 2021 11:14am
      - Batman
        
        On corporates I think you’ve got to separate the public signals of some companies, with the silence from others and the donation track records of many.
        
        The corporates loved the GOPs Tax Bill, not necessarily Trump himself. Trump was merely a means to pass that legislation which has gained corporates trillions, while adding $7 trillion to the national deficit.
        
        The Republican establishment is a subsidiary of Trumpworld, due to the financial control of Trump PAC over the bulk of donations, outside of what goes to the Senate and House funds.
        
        This started with a push poll in a room full of partisans. You may as well take a poll of “is Judith the devil or just evil” poll on The Standard ?
        
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        August 19, 2021 11:24am
- kowtow
  
  On topic :
  
  Anyone remember the anti Trump gloating the Media Pardy engaged in when Creepy Joe announced America is Back ?
  
  Excerpts ;
  
  ‘American leadership must meet this new moment of advancing authoritarianism,
  
  That’s the grounding wire of our global policy — our global power. That’s our inexhaustible source of strength. That’s America’s abiding advantage.
  
  the American people are going to emerge from this moment stronger, more determined, and better equipped to unite the world in fighting to defend democracy, because we have fought for it ourselves.
  
  Over the past two weeks, I’ve spoken with the leaders of many of our closest friends — Canada, Mexico, the UK, Germany, France, NATO, Japan, South Korea, Australia — to being [begin] reforming the habits of cooperation and rebuilding the muscle of democratic alliances that have atrophied over the past few years of neglect and, I would argue, abuse.
  
  America’s alliances are our greatest asset, and leading with diplomacy means standing shoulder-to-shoulder with our allies and key partners once again.
  
  That’s why we’ve moved quickly to begin restoring American engagement internationally and earn back our leadership position, to catalyze global action on shared challenges.
  
  And to further repair our moral leadership, I’m also issuing a presidential memo to agencies to reinvigorate our leadership on the LGBTQI issues and do it internationally. You know, we’ll ensure diplomacy and foreign assistance are working to promote the rights of those individuals, included by combatting criminalization and protecting LGBTQ refugees and asylum-seekers.
  
  When we defend equal rights of people the world over — of women and girls, LGBTQ individuals, indigenous communities, and people with disabilities, the people of every ethnic background and religion — we also ensure that those rights are protected for our own children here in America.
  
  The leadership of diplomats of every stripe, doing the daily work of engagement, created the very idea of a free and interconnected world. We are a country that does big things. American diplomacy makes it happen. And our administration is ready to take up the mantle and lead once again. ‘
  
  Bwa hahahahahaaha.
  
  https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/02/04/remarks-by-president-biden-on-americas-place-in-the-world/
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:31am
- Southern Raider
  
  Definitely Carter still, but give Joe a few months
  
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  August 19, 2021 11:11am
  - thirteenstars
    
    Interesting thing about Carter is that in recent years many have tried to rehabilitate him, including many libertarians who see Reagan as worse.
    
    Reminds me of those who double down on Biden, despite the zero-funny clown show, because at least he’s not Trump.
    
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    August 19, 2021 1:25pm
Rusty

Didn’t Michael Baker predict doom and gloom if the Tokyo Olympics preceded — a mass outbreak of covid among the athletes?

And every time this country goes into lock down due to a covid case he thinks the worst scenario with his level 4 mentality going on for months and not weeks.

Of course this man probably won’t suffer financially or emotionally himself through lock downs but spares no thought for his fellow Kiwis doing it hard.
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August 19, 2021 9:10am
- I remember when
  
  Professor Des Gorman:
  Olympics – he expected (predicted) team event defaults because of mini outbreaks.
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:03am
Ehlana

Has anyone actually seen any information which compares hospitalisation and death rates for the different viruses (rhino – cold, influenza & covid)? Or for the different variants of covid?

I’m hearing a lot of numbers of people being found to have (or have had) the covid virus, but how many of them have actually been ill (felt unwell enough to take time off, or visit a GP)?

Have we ever tried to test and track cold or flu the way we are with covid?

We need comparative data to understand the risk and because, eventually, we have to go back to normal life – lockdown is expensive in money and health too. Seeing a broader picture might help dial back the fear.
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August 19, 2021 9:11am
- I remember when
  
  Have we become averse to good covid news.
  Do we need the adrenaline rush to keep us feeling alive.
  Is COVID so much ‘THE’ news that we feel we are missing out if we are not mentioned.
  Does the thought of ‘ learning to live with covid’ cause us to start suffering withdrawal symptoms.
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:25am
- CherryCat
  
  While a real virus, that can make some people seriously ill and in need of good treatment, largely unavailable in NZ, Covid here is mostly a political reaction. There is little consideration for health at all. The fear is a necessary part of political reaction, it provides the foundation for government actions that would, in ordinary times, be completely unacceptable. Hence, dialling down the fear is neither an objective nor desired outcome.
  
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  August 19, 2021 9:50am
- MCos
  
  Here’s an article from June 2019 regarding the flu.
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/113212614/three-deaths-from-flu-in-new-zealand-this-season–what-makes-flu-a-killer
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:00am
  - Ehlana
    
    Thanks MCos. I’d heard the figure of 500-odd flu related deaths a year before; evidently this is something we have come to accept.
    
    I wonder how different public perception would be if our politicians had made the comparison clear. Especially if people had understood that actually, the existing flu shot is about 60% effective in otherwise healthy people and needs to be renewed annually because viruses mutate. So we should expect the same from the Covid shot.
    
    Lifting general health – a good nights rest, healthy food and drink, regular exercise, hand washing and fresh air indoors and out – might be the best approach to dealing with this. Not particularly dramatic or exciting I know, but somehow, the doing the right thing is rarely is. And yet it works.
    
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    August 19, 2021 11:29am
Suze Wainwright

I’m wondering if the PM’s comms apparatus is getting somewhat concerned that the pulpit of truth now requires some serious re-plastering to accommodate new scientific evidence re lockdowns and Covid strategies.

(Already seeing articles in Stuff probably preparing the citizenry for changes in direction)
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August 19, 2021 9:13am
- Tall Man
  
  My wife noticed that as well.
  
  I refuse to look at stuff anymore, my blood pressure can’t take it as my “bullshit detector” goes into overdrive.
  
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  August 19, 2021 1:30pm
JibberJabber

How much of any Western government’s foreign policy exists merely to distract us from their domestic disasters?
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August 19, 2021 9:24am
- MCos
  
  If it is it very rarely works.
  Any poll of prominent issues almost always shows domestic concerns, such as the economy and law & order, way ahead of foreign stuff.
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:09am
  - Tall Man
    
    Maybe it’s not the polls some politicians have their eyes on …….. Maybe they’re looking to other venues to exploit.
    
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    August 19, 2021 1:27pm
Surely Knott

This comment from Michael Baker is downright irresponsible.

From Stuff:

Overseases expert Paul Hunter: “None of the vaccines will be able to stop the Delta variant [spreading]. The latest data on double vaccinated people in the UK is that vaccines are only 49 per cent effective at stopping infection.”

NZ expert Michael Baker: “we still do not understand the full potential of the vaccines. As I mentioned earlier, 70 per cent of UK adults are vaccinated, but only 60 per cent of the entire population. Vaccinating children, for example, may well further mitigate the spread of the virus.”

Right so the vaccines aren’t effective. We don’t understand them fully. Lets vaccinate the kids. It may well mitigate the spread. Maybe.
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August 19, 2021 9:30am
- cmm
  
  He might have trained as a scientist, but now he’s just another troughing activist.
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:52am
JibberJabber

https://freebeacon.com/biden-administration/biden-state-dept-moved-to-abolish-crisis-response-bureau-months-before-taliban-takeover-of-afghanistan/

The Biden State Department moved to dissolve the Trump-era crisis response program, according to an internal State Department memo and sources familiar with the matter. That memo, which was marked sensitive but unclassified and was signed by Deputy Secretary Brian McKeon, approved the “discontinuation of the establishment, and termination of, the Contingency and Crisis Response Bureau (CCR),” a new State Department entity created during the Trump administration to coordinate emergency response services overseas.
The decision to dissolve the CCR was handed down just months before the Taliban overtook the Afghan capital of Kabul, leaving the Biden administration scrambling to evacuate more than 15,000 Americans still trapped in the country. It is unclear if the Biden State Department has an alternative plan or a similar bureau that could coordinate emergency services alongside other government agencies.
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August 19, 2021 9:31am
curry4me

ASTERISK PRESIDENCY: Episode 31.
Direct from Harveywood, here is this week’s episode of Asterisk Presidency. Brought to you by the CCP, MSM, Wall Street, $oros, ANTIFA, BLM, CDC, Nordstream, globalists, ‘academia’, FBI, CIA, NSA, and Cuba.
Will Sleepy Joe make the Taliban great again? Is Kabul Sleepy Joe’s Saigon moment? Did the Taliban overestimate Joe’s ability to f— things up? Was it a pleasant surprise for them? Will they invite him to Ramadan in Kabul? Will Quemala come too? Will she have to wear a burqa? What flavour ice cream will they have? Would two scoops be un-Islamic? Was the transfer of power to the Taliban more legit than Jan 20th? Was it mostly peaceful? Has anyone in the ‘administration’ read The Book of Daniel? Has Afghanistan Pride Month been cancelled yet? Will the Taliban send him a thankyou note? Who, or what will Kabul Joe surrender to next? Will the presitator launch Cultural Revolution 2.0? Will he successfully ban the wrong kind of karaoke? Will there be underground karaoke clubs? Have they started already? Is Hunter studying electrical engineering for his Burisma job? Will a degree net him a pay rise? Did Burisma buy some of his art? Did Putin? Is it hanging in the Kremlin bathroom? Is Kabul Joe America’s Nero? Can he play an instrument? Is he a zero? Will Quemala pull the 25th? Will Hunter’s paintings drop in price if Joe is fired? Will clients demand refunds? Is he the artist formerly known as Shyster? Is Hunter still the smartest person Kabul Joe knows? With the rate of Taliban success, will everyone be speaking Pashtun by Christmas? Did Ghani have a plan? No, it was a plane. Was his parachute made of gold, or platinum? Is Bidenflation fleeting? Have Dem voters reached peak buyer’s remorse yet? Have the Taliban taken more questions than Kabul Joe this week? How long will the Taliban stay on Twit-ter? Will president Trump be reinstated? Does anyone know where Quemala is? Is she writing her inaugauration speech? Will Larry Elder be the next governor of California? Can Kabul Joe rescue stranded Americans in Afghanistan? C’mon man! Can Quemala? Will Austin, and Milley resign? Will Scrooge McDuck become a philanthropist? Will the Republicans win another special election? Stay tuned folks!
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August 19, 2021 9:36am
- crikey
  
  What about trying to put some punctuation in to your articles, they might then be worth reading. Otherwise, other than you getting some things off your chest, you’re just wasting people’s time.
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:56am
CAKE FACE1

The basic problem is that every time Cindy imposes an insane lockdown because of the zero Covid conspiracy, her support in the polls rises massively.

Alas, it seems to me that New Zealanders are the biggest lickspittles in the world.

We deserve Cindy. Harsh but true.
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August 19, 2021 9:52am
- lifesgood
  
  Admittedly my friends are intelligent, not brain dead Cindy supporters, and with no exception they are furious over this unnecessary lockdown. Interestingly the govt has been aware of the outbreak for 3 weeks and how come unis and schools were telling students to clear desks and take stuff home? TV ads were ramped up too btw. Are all those lefties guilty of protecting their princess? They were clearly in the know.
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:56am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    The govt hasn’t been aware of the outbreak for three weeks. Instead the recent testing has shown that covid may have been in the community since August 3, which is two weeks ago.
    
    I know some here believe that the govt is operating some giant covid conspiracy, but logic should tell you that this sort of allegation is fanciful.
    
    Do you really think the government, and the MOH could keep the knowledge of covid in the community secret for that length of time. That they knew covid positive people were in the community for weeks and did nothing. All so they could do a Lockdown 4.
    
    The very first question to ask is how would they even know? They would have to have a positive test of a community transmitter since August 3, then keep that secret. That is simply not going to happen. Imagine the political whirlwind (actually political typhoon) that would happen if this actually was the case.
    
    The anxiety increase is because of what has been happening in Sydney, and the risk that we could come infected in the same way as Australian states, which appears to also have happened here. Maybe they were too slow to shut the Trans Tasman bubble.
    
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    August 19, 2021 11:47am
    - westernScientest
      
      I kind of agree, I dont think the government bureaucrats are competent enough to keep it secret for weeks, since late last week when the rumors were circulating though, maybe.
      I suspect they ramped up the fear campaign because of the bubble closing and their polls dropping.
      
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      August 19, 2021 12:08pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      You don’t know that. There were significant changes in govt ~~messaging~~ propaganda a couple of weeks back, and it is possible there were hints of an outbreak in sewerage testing or the like that weren’t disclosed (and could be excused by not meeting some official threshold) – Labour have a well established pattern of lying about and hiding bad news.
      
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      August 19, 2021 12:46pm
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        I know enough about govt to know they simply don’t operate in the secretive sort of way you imagine. Obviously there are state secrets in the national security area. However that does not include public health issues, especially Covid.
        
        Instead the opposite imperatives apply on public health issues, especially on something as high profile as Covid. Go out early as soon as you know.
        
        In this instance within hours of the first positive test, we go into Lockdown. There is no-one who was tested earlier and that test was kept secret. We would absolutely know that by now.
        
        As for the change in messaging, that is because officials (and all the usual commentators) were becoming increasingly convinced that we would not duck contamination from NSW. They didn’t know the actual case, but they knew the risk.
        
        As t happens it was a border failure, Somehow we have been able to keep MIQ facilities secure for months (just about every day someone comes in with covid) but not in this case. Why??
        
        I reckon no-one should be able to come into NZ unless they are fully vaccinated. Citizens and residents don’t get to return unless they are vaccinated.
        
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        August 19, 2021 2:05pm
  - Ehlana
    
    The fact that the need for another lockdown soon was being denied strenuously last week seemed like a good reason to check my stores and top-up.
    
    And lo and behold – the lockdown that was not on the horizon has arrived.
    
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    August 19, 2021 11:59am
    - Tall Man
      
      I did it based on the poll results.
      
      Plus the fact that the people flying back did not have their paperwork checked in the main.
      
      To enter Australia we had to do an online check in whereas for NZ we were told to print and complete the form and take it to the airport.
      
      We both still have those forms.
      
      The only question we were asked at Auckland airport was whether we had any gifts for other people by a surly overweight female customs officer.
      
      At that point we both knew it was when not if so have kept a decent level of supplies in the pantry … although I did feel the need to grab a few extra kumara on Tuesday afternoon before the madness set in….. Only to find a few in my “kumara drawer” when I put them away.
      
      So, no supermarket madness for us for a month or more 🙂
      
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      August 19, 2021 1:24pm
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        I presume you were returning as part of the Trans Tasman bubble, when both countries were assumed to be covid free. Already seems like ancient history!
        
        However, this current situation is the result of a MIQ breach.
        
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        August 19, 2021 2:08pm
    - Tall Man
      
      I am aware that is the possible cause but my comment was basically showing that the terms of the bubble were not being enforced so a transfer of the virus was inevitable.
      
      For example, the day we left Brisbane our flight to Wellington was cancelled and we were told to fuck off for the day and come back tomorrow. I raised a bit of a fuss and we were rebooked into Auckland and accomodated for the night, but not fed as they claimed it was weather related.
      
      We got back to Brisbane a little early and planned to call into the DFO by the airport for a bit of a shop but instead stopped off a little further north.
      
      That same day the stewardess from Dubai who was a “positive” was shopping at the DFO so a bit of plan change and all was well but had we stopped there we would have possibly been exposed and brought the virus in as there was no question asked other than than the “gift” thingy.
      
      Now as you know I’m not too fussed about catchig covid or not but would not like to be responsible for any outbreak, great or small yet our border control was rubbish and too slow to respond. in my opinion.
      
      We have always self isolated when we got colds as we don’t like them and don’t want to pass them on so being asked to self isolate while a simple test is administered isn’t a major hassle whereas 14 days at massive cost is. Surely any border crossings should be monitored, however loosely, whether we have a bubble or not. The saliva test is fast and easy and should be mandatory if our government was truly serious about covid. Based on their actions and those of our previous minister of health I think they are not and maybe, like me, think it ain’t the big deal it’s cracked up to be.
      
      Time will tell.
      
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      August 19, 2021 5:28pm
- Tall Man
  
  Not this time I think.
  
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  August 19, 2021 1:18pm
thirteenstars

Question of the day at Newshub: How are you feeling about the lockdown?

57% angry.

Voting closed. You bet it is.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2021/08/question-of-the-day-how-are-you-feeling-about-the-lockdown.html
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August 19, 2021 9:52am
- cmm
  
  Wait until Auckland is locked down and the rest of the country is “free” again.
  
  The Jaffas will be very upset and less compliant because it is “unfair”.
  
  I think at least half the reason to lock everyone down is to make it more “fair”.
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:51am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    My sympathy is with those south of the Auckland province, and north of the Auckland expanded city district. They are needlessly having their civil liberties curtailed.
    What worries me is that those people are metaphorically taking the garbage “up their chutney” and not complaining. For evil to persist, good men must do nothing.
    
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    August 19, 2021 11:38am
I remember when

Is this what ‘Fact Checking’ has become.
Iceland Population 343,737 Cases 9862 Deaths 30 .3% Vaccinations 71%-83% of the population over 12, with almost the entire 60+ population vaccinated.
Washington Post: Iceland has been a vaccination success. Why is it seeing a coronavirus surge:
Covid19Crusher:26 July: Yesterday 82% of new cases were fully vaccinated (with Graphs). So 87 cases – 71 were fully vaccinated (81.6%), 14 were unvaccinated and 2 partially vaccinated.
Reuters: Aug 3: Fact Check-Covid-19 cases in Iceland not proof vaccines are ineffective.
What did ‘Fact Check’ have to do with the story.
They agreed with Covid19Crusher’s figures.
Surely, all the headline needed was that being vaccinated appeared to reduce both fatalities and serious cases.
The date of the article meant that their ‘Fact Check’ was working on limited information.
A spike in Icelandic covid cases really started about 19 July and was continuing at the time of the article.
So little time for indepth research – was it an Advertorial.
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August 19, 2021 9:52am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  the surge isn’t really a problem – noone is dying, and I guess that people getting covid after vaccination will establish good (or at least much better than vax) long term immunity.
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:45am
  - Tall Man
    
    The highly vulnerable have already departed this world.
    
    Now if we had thousands of otherwise healthy people succumbing to covid infection with serious infections and death then we’d have a problem but we don’t and are unlikely to do so.
    
    Throughout the world we are being told positive tests are “cases”. They are not, cases are sick people.
    
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    August 19, 2021 1:16pm
RW Capitalist

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/16/watch-saigon-kabul-now-afghanistan-airport-evacuation-compared/
and ….drum role please….thank you Joe Biden.
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August 19, 2021 9:58am
I remember when

Newshub: The Project: 23/6/20:
“Covid-19: Proof is in the pudding with quarantine measures as no community transmission – Megan Woods.”
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August 19, 2021 9:59am
- cmm
  
  Well we all know what happened to the pudding…
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:47am
- Fletch
  
  I wish people would stop saying “proof is in the pudding”. It is meaningless. The saying is “the proof of the pudding is in the eating”.
  
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  August 19, 2021 11:26am
  - cmm
    
    Regardless, the pudding has gone.
    
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    August 19, 2021 12:38pm
    - CAKE FACE1
      
      I think we can do a pretty educated guess as to who ate Megan Woods’ pudding…
      
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      August 19, 2021 2:02pm
    - curry4me
      
      cmm: Aren’t there several puddings in charge? Do puddings like pies? Do they fight other puddings for them?
      
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      August 19, 2021 4:22pm
  - Tall Man
    
    megan knows ….. 🙂
    
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    August 19, 2021 1:13pm
    - curry4me
      
      Tall Man: ….. bugger all.
      
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      August 19, 2021 4:23pm
thirteenstars

9:12am – Addressing Wednesday’s anti-lockdown protests, where several people including conspiracy theorist Billy Te Kahika were arrested, police commissioner Andrew Coster said it was only a very small group.

“We suspect there will be things that happen here and there,” he told The AM Show. “We will deal with them as they come along.”

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/08/covid-19-live-updates-latest-on-community-outbreak-thursday-august-19.html

Just like the police dealt with the roadblock set up by local brown-skinned people barring entry into the Coromandel? There the police allowed the block to remain and joined in themselves.

But I doubt he means the police will respect the right to protest and join in. Perhaps protesters should simply set up roadblocks and hire a few Te Reo speakers to negotiate with the cops.

Coster is a woke lackey. Hard to believe former commissioner Bush wasn’t the bottom of the barrel. The dumbing-down continues.
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August 19, 2021 10:01am
- James Stephenson
  
  I’m sure Coster has wet dreams about stopping people in the street and demanding to see their “papers”.
  
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  August 19, 2021 11:34am
all true

All we need to get rid of these clowns including these left leaning professors as soon as possible.
Whenever the lefties getting hold of power then things getting very quickly pear shaped and that’s what we have now.
Sometimes I think this country is full of cowards excluding the farmers, they have at least stood up for their rights and it will be not the end.
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August 19, 2021 10:02am
- doggone7
  
  Yeah, let’s get rid of professors that’d sort the world out.
  
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  August 19, 2021 11:34am
  - Tall Man
    
    “left leaning professors”
    
    Yep, sure would.
    
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    August 19, 2021 1:12pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsXdvj_69sA

Richard Burgon Wants UK To Pay Money To Taliban In Afghanistan.

Labour thinks the UK should take in refugees, and pay compensation. [4:55.]
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August 19, 2021 10:02am
curry4me

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/08/17/connecticut-gop-flips-state-senate-seat-in-a-district-biden-won-by-25-points/

Republicans Flip State Legislature Seat.

State Republicans tonight delivered the first flip of a state legislative seat in a special election by either party in 2021, as Republican Ryan Fazio defeated liberal Democrat Alex Gevanter in Connecticut’s state Senate District 36 – a district Joe Biden won by more than 25% in 2020.
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August 19, 2021 10:03am
- Batman
  
  The seat was Republican for 75 years before it was flipped for the first time in 2018, and that person resigned citing her ongoing divorce, triggered the empty seat election.
  
  So a return to norm for a seat which was flipped in the 2018 blue wave.
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:43am
- Tall Man
  
  Expect to see a bit more of that due to “buyer’s remorse” and I look forward to the same here in 2023 if the liar can last that long.
  
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  August 19, 2021 1:11pm
Critical Thinker

“Do not think that the boosters are the solution.”

“There are so many breakthrough infections that they dominate and most of the hospitalized patients are actually vaccinated,” – Uri Shalit – Bioinformatician at the Israel Institute of Technology

Israel has among the world’s highest levels of vaccination for COVID-19, with 78% of those 12 and older fully vaccinated, the vast majority with the Pfizer vaccine. Yet the country is now logging one of the world’s highest infection rates, with nearly 650 new cases daily per million people. More than half are in fully vaccinated people, underscoring the extraordinary transmissibility of the Delta variant and stoking concerns that the benefits of vaccination ebb over time.

“This is a very clear warning sign for the rest of world,” says Ran Balicer, chief innovation officer at Clalit Health Services

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta
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August 19, 2021 10:06am
- MrTips
  
  And its not like we weren’t told before hand. They had better hope to God that the partial benefits are enough to allow acquired immunity to take over without too much carnage along the way.
  
  And people should note: the article CT refers to is in SCIENCE, one of the top 3 science journals in the world. Baker, Hendy and Wiles are dreaming if they think they can refute that.
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:57am
  - cmm
    
    “Baker, Hendy and Wiles are dreaming if they think they can refute that.”
    
    So long as their funding is secure, and they’re getting the ego-buzz from being in the media, what do they care about science?
    
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    August 19, 2021 11:13am
- WaynelSexton
  
  More evidence of Antibody Dependent Enhancement
  https://www.wesh.com/article/7-fully-vaccinated-covid-19-patients-die-in-what-doctors-say-is-extremely-rare-situation/37321628
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:58am
- Fletch
  
  Here’s video of a nurse on TikTok saying that most of the patients she is looking after are vaccinated –
  
  https://tv.gab.com/channel/redvoicemedia/view/hospital-is-full-of-vaccinated-covid-611ce4fa3c88ab02fd69700a
  
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  August 19, 2021 11:22am
  - Batman
    
    A gab repost of a tiktok video of a single ‘nurse’
    
    Versus
    
    All of the data from multiple countries which shows that vaccination gives you a 99% chance of not being hospitalised.
    
    5 13
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    August 19, 2021 11:44am
    - Fletch
      
      You mean like in Israel, where the medical director of Herzog Hospital in Jerusalem, stated that the majority of coronavirus patients in an Israeli hospital are fully vaccinated, including those with severe disease.
      
      Dr Haviv further specified that: “95% of the severe patients are vaccinated,” adding “85-90% of the hospitalizations are in fully vaccinated people” and the hospital is “opening more and more COVID wards.” This has led him to conclude that “the effectiveness of the vaccine is fading out.”
      
      https://www.spectator.com.au/2021/08/most-covid-patients-at-israeli-hospital-fully-vaccinated-what-does-this-mean-for-australia/
      
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      August 19, 2021 11:56am
      - Batman
        
        You can have a lot of fun when you play with percentages instead of hard data.
        
        https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-644288348135
        
        https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-vaccine-39percent-effective-in-israel-prevents-severe-illness.html
        
        Yes it shows that Delta is hard to combat with first gen vaccines, but that’s not a surprise at all. We need a multi-pronged strategy.
        
        However, the vaccine in Israel is proving 88% effective at preventing hospitalisation.
        
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        August 19, 2021 12:09pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Ok Batman, I’ll type really really slow as I see you are suffering sugar loss.
        
        The first round of covid killed the highly vulnerable. The second round killed those that had become highly vulnerable between the rounds. The third round also killed the highly vulnerable but just by sheer logic alone, the number of highly vulnerable will drop.
        
        Without doing anything the numbers of those killed with covid and also hospitalised but recovering will drop as each cycle passes through.
        
        It is also common knowledge that a virus becomes less lethal with each mutation. That doesn’t make it benign but it will eventually become so.
        
        Therefore, numbers killed with the virus and the numbers hospitalised with the virus will drop whereas the numbers infected with the virus will grow in proportion to deaths.
        
        Now the implementation of beneficial hygiene practices will also result in a drop in numbers hence our low influenza infection rate last year.
        
        Now by all means you believe it’s due to vaccination but I do not. Does that make me a fool, well it depends on who’s judging and generally I am quite happy to be judged a fool by a gullible fool.
        
        Now off to the fridge so you can become a little less abrasive.
        
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        August 19, 2021 1:07pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Just a small correction.
  Israel first country to offer Booster Jab Aug 13th
  wrong.
  Cambodia offers Booster shot August 12th.
  
  An aside.
  I was in Cambodia in July. Got a shot there.
  At the station I attended they were jabbing around 140 an hour from 7am.
  and within 2 city blocks 3 other stations.
  (its how they jabbed 1 million a week)
  
  Cam back to NZ got a jab in Tauranga. They had “booked” 300 odd for the day! Of which a large number were no shows.
  Nearest other station? Not Tauranga thats for sure.
  
  Phnom Penh(Capital City) has jabbed 99% of adults and are now furiously jabbing 12+ year olds
  AND
  giving boosters.
  
  So NZ doesnt match a 3rd world Country
  Interesting
  
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  August 19, 2021 8:54pm
ABS4EVA

You people need to really stop giving each other
False hope based on False assumptions.
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August 19, 2021 10:07am
rangitoto

While we struggle with the Wuhan lab flu outbreak, the most important news in the UK is the fate of Geronimo the alpaca.
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August 19, 2021 10:18am
Critical Thinker

BREAKING
Poll: Donald Trump Would Defeat Joe Biden If The Election Was Held Today

According to a poll from Rasmussen Reports, 37% said they would vote for Joe Biden and 43% said they would vote for Donald Trump.

The poll also found that 10% of Democrats said they regret their vote in the 2020 Presidential election.

Trump dropped a major hint last night on Hannity, that he will run for president in 2024.

“It’s not that I want to,” Trump said to Hannity. “The country needs it. We have to take care of this country. I don’t want to. Is this fun? Fighting constantly? Fighting always? I mean, the country, what we have done, is so important.”

https://conservativebrief.com/poll-defeat-48729/

69.3% of Americans disapprove of dementia addled Biden’s handling of military operations – a supermajority of the population. Just 23.1% approve, and 7.5% have no opinion.
https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/nat-issues-afghanistan-0816/
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August 19, 2021 10:45am
- Batman
  
  More Rasmussen polling huh? Its almost as if it’s too good to be true.
  
  And remember, it’s not the popular vote that wins elections.
  
  Of course Trump will run in ’24, his ego demands that he seek the attention and adoration of his base.
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:54am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    Rasmussen and Trafalgar polling have both been proven to be among the most reliable pollsters in the world ??
    
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8_gtheX0E83q-e?format=jpg&name=medium
    
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    August 19, 2021 11:03am
    - Batman
      
      Preliminary estimates and unlabelled axis? And not sourced. Hardly a great help..
      
      Rasmussen is known to be R leaning, as demonstrated here.
      https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/
      
      It does rank highly and that’s good. The measure you cite is not representative or predictive of any actual outcome, only a mood at a point in time.
      
      As another commenter said just now, plenty of people voice dissatisfaction during terms and then will go back to what they know in the privacy of the polling booth.
      
      A ’24 Trump campaign would be a sharp reminder of what he was like in government, which led to him being rated as historically unpopular.
      
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      August 19, 2021 11:12am
  - Fletch
    
    Don’t tell me you’d actually vote for Biden? And if so – are you out of your mind????
    
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    August 19, 2021 11:19am
    - Batman
      
      Why is it about me? You’re posing a ridiculous hypothetical given both of us are Kiwis and not US voters (I’m just assuming you’re not).
      
      Would I vote for Biden over Trump in 2020? Yes.
      
      How would I vote in 2024? No idea but if Trump is the nominee, I’m sure as hell not voting for a racist authoritarian who quite literally staged a failed coup in order to avoid leaving power.
      
      The question should be, you’d actually vote for Trump? And if so – are you out of your mind????
      
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      August 19, 2021 11:48am
      - Tall Man
        
        Oh dear Batman, working from home getting to you?
        
        Pop over to the fridge for a “breather”.
        
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        August 19, 2021 12:50pm
- kowtow
  
  The problem would still be ‘activists” going door to door in ahem ,poor districts , filling out the ballot papers for folk who generally don’t bother voting and thereby skewing the democratic process .
  
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  August 19, 2021 12:49pm
- curry4me
  
  Critical thinker: So that’d make it two nil then?
  
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  August 19, 2021 4:26pm
Prince

Just received my State House insurance bill. Up 33% year to year.
Along with the 14.5% increase in council rates.
Any chance of a Govt-sponsored review into these industries ? Thought not.
And before you say…’earthquake risk’…we have had no claims for the last 20 years.
Might explain the rental increases though.
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August 19, 2021 10:51am
- westernScientest
  
  money printer go brrrr
  
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  August 19, 2021 11:45am
- MCos
  
  My rates went up 5% and house & contents 4%.
  A few years ago, however, the rates went up by 20% when Mangere Bridge suddenly became half pie respectable.
  
  We were burgled maybe 20yrs ago and got a hefty payout. Nevertheless over the years the insurance industry has done very well out of us.
  Big insure must love it every time a house burns down and some poor wretch is on tv saying they wished they’d been insured.
  
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  August 19, 2021 12:06pm
  - Prince
    
    Interesting. When I question State they talk about increased risk of earthquake, floods and pestilence.
    
    Well our house is well built and has stood through everything Papatuanuku (god of earth) and her mates have thrown at us for 30 years.
    When I mention floods, quakes, fire, tornados etc etc in other parts of the country they go quiet.
    
    Two solutions – increase our excess fivefold (the option I took) or not insure and rely on Govt benevolence if some idiot lands a Boeing in our front room.
    
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    August 19, 2021 1:01pm
- Tall Man
  
  Any chance you could have a wee peak at the building cost increases over the same period?
  
  Maybe factor in “wait times” for a tradie to actually do the repairs all the while you are staying in a “non MIQ” hotel as your house in uninhabitable.
  
  Maybe factor increase council costs and the fact that the repairs now need to comply with current build codes.
  
  Then factor in the fact that most houses are underinsured so the loss adjuster and insurer have that issue to work through as well.
  
  Then have a look at insurance costs here, Australia and California and tell me again, are they ripping you off?
  
  Bye the bye, if you lived in Oz, would you pay for insurance on your home that specifically excludes bush fire and/or flood? Thousands do and millions do not have earthquake cover in California.
  
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  August 19, 2021 12:48pm
Maggie Pie

Well, the speech from raghead Zabihullah Mujahid on Monday didn’t age well…..

The Taliban shot and killed a young gurl this morning on the streets of Kabul ‘for not wearing a hijab’.

So much for kindness and respecting human rights…..

https://twitter.com/AlinejadMasih/status/1428013048137138178
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August 19, 2021 10:59am
- mandk
  
  Ardern needs to send them a frowny face for not being kind.
  
  That will teach them.
  
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  August 19, 2021 11:10am
- westernScientest
  
  Dont worry I am sure he will get a big frowny face, maybe even a bony finger waggle.
  
  on a more serious note, its pretty sad really. I dont remember any direct punishment in the Quran or hadiths for immodisty, although it was clearly seen as immoral, improper action and the immodest person was expected to face the judgement of Allah. Its been a long time though and I just read some random English translation that probably didnt take into account the full context of the belief system.
  
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  August 19, 2021 11:24am
  - Bluegrass
    
    The Q’ran requires females to dress modestly -which is a subjective concept. Nowhere does it require women to cover their faces or hair.
    
    I was posted to a number of Muslim countries in the Gulf and Maghreb over a period of 14 years, and noted that ‘modesty’ ranged in Libya [pre-Ghaddafi murder] to girls/women in shorts and T’s, no head-covering, and ditto Morocco; to the traditional conservative black abaya and hijab/burqa in Kuwait and KSA (and often in the UAE as well)
    
    Only the extremely fundamentalist areas in Afghanistan and Pakistan, which arguably do not practice Islam at all but some barbaric extrapolation of it, treat women in the way they do, including the grotesque parody of a burqa perpetrated by the Taliban.
    
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    August 19, 2021 12:43pm
    - Twinkletoes
      
      Women’s full coverage is mandated in Sharia law, (Womens obligatory clothing) written in the centuries after the Qu’ran was revealed – it wasn’t till the 13th century that the muslims decided that their faith was absolutely perfect and no more amendments/additions were allowed.
      
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      August 19, 2021 2:00pm
      - Bluegrass
        
        Sharia is not mainstream Islam.
        
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        August 20, 2021 4:25am
- kowtow
  
  Wot will latest New Zealand Media Pardy darling Charlotte Bellis have to say about dat ?
  
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  August 19, 2021 11:41am
Fletch

Babylon Bee does it again ?

New Zealand To Sink Entire Country Into The Sea To Stop Single Case Of COVID

WELLINGTON, NZ—After discovering a single case of COVID on the island of New Zealand, the country’s Prime Minister and Chief Muppet Jacinda Ardern has decided she will take no chances—electing to just sink the entire island into the sea to stop the spread.

“Listen, this gives me no pleasure,” she said in an address, “but desperate times call for desperate measures. I am left with no choice but to fully submerge this island underwater until the threat of COVID is passed.”

“So pack your togs, because you all will have to swim for a few weeks until we figure this out.”

She then drilled a hole into the ground with an auger until water began rushing out, which then enveloped the whole island, leaving all the Kiwis floating out in the wop-wops.

“Crikey!” said all the enraged citizens. “We’ll be floating out here for yonks!”

Authorities assured the rest of the world that Prime Minister Ardern’s move was in no way an overreaction and is completely reasonable in every way.

https://babylonbee.com/news/new-zealand-to-sink-entire-country-into-the-sea-to-stop-single-case-of-covid
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August 19, 2021 11:05am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I put that on Facebook and some of my Alaskan friends started asking dumb questions.
  Best thing is fact checkers flagged it as ‘false’ LOL!!
  
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  August 19, 2021 11:51am
MrTips

Well paid, job secure, over-blown number spotter basically says “ suck it up Auckland, my outdated, zealous ideas are more important that anyone else’s and don’t talk about treatment advances or decreased IFR”.

Decorum and manners prevent me from sullying KB with the most appropriate response to this.
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August 19, 2021 11:07am
- nathie
  
  I would have thought with the number of places (which typically contained dozens of people) that the 10 infected people (so far announced) visited, that there is potential for hundreds and hundreds of other people becoming infected.
  
  So when Hendy reckons only 100 cases could result – will his modelling predictions be wrong again? Or is he playing things down (as per a government narrative)?
  
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  August 19, 2021 11:50am
  - westernScientest
    
    he has no idea the same as the rest of us, but is egotistical and likes getting his face in the paper. To do that he says what thinks the government, and by extension the brought and paid for media wants to hear.
    
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    August 19, 2021 12:00pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Especially when you consider that you can catch “delta” just by opening your door ……….
    
    Bullshit detectors seem to be broken in an awful lot of people these days.
    
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    August 19, 2021 12:40pm
westernScientest

wrong place, sorry
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August 19, 2021 11:24am
Fletch

Well done Obama… NOT.
The Taliban leader who organized the takeover of Kabul was one of the 5 terrorists that Obama freed from Gitmo – one of who Obama was advised was too dangerous to release. But Obama believed them when they said they wouldn’t go back to fighting.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/16/taliban-leader-was-freed-from-guantanamo-in-2014-swap-by-obama/

https://thefederalist.com/2021/08/17/obama-freed-the-taliban-leader-who-engineered-kabul-takeover/

What a dipshit. Trump is looking more and more like the best president America has had in the past few decades.
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August 19, 2021 11:32am
- Batman
  
  Well done Trump… Not.
  
  https://news.sky.com/video/afghanistan-taliban-leader-mullah-baradar-returns-12384306
  
  https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/568154-trumps-deal-with-the-taliban-set-the-stage-for-the-afghan-collapse
  
  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/09/world/asia/afghanistan-taliban-prisoners-peace-talks.html?smid=url-share
  
  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-taliban-idUSKCN25507I
  
  “The Afghan government agreed on Sunday to release 400 “hard-core” Taliban prisoners, paving the way for peace talks aimed at ending almost two decades of war.
  
  “Under election-year pressure from U.S. President Donald Trump for a deal allowing him to bring home American troops…”
  
  What a dipshit. Trump is looking more and more like the worst president in the history of the United States.
  
  You gotta check this stuff before posting Fletch!
  
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  August 19, 2021 11:40am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    There is that TDS again.
    Btw, there was a civilian evacuation plan in progress to get people out before the troops. Biden admin canned it purely because it was Trump’s plan. Never bothered to come up with something else. Media not asking about this.
    
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    August 19, 2021 11:56am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      No link, seems to have disappeared – convenient
      
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      August 19, 2021 12:00pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/biden-administration-cut-trump-program-to-evacuate-americans-from-crisis/?
        
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        August 19, 2021 12:32pm
      - Batman
        
        Steve do you seriously want people to form opinions based off a thin Blue Line propaganda site and “the national pulse” which is a fringe news site.
        
        You’ve gotta start reading more widely, not just slanted rubbish that is hopelessly partisan.
        
        So far this story has been circulated purely amongst the usual far right sites like the Daily Caller, and the post millennial, daily Mail, and them Fox.
        
        Give it 48 hours and we’ll see the legitimacy and sourcing of this story. It’ll be the usual suspect fabrication.
        
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        August 19, 2021 5:01pm
    - Fletch
      
      Yep, the U.S air might left in the middle of the night without informing anyone. Now Taliban fighters have surrounded the airport in Kabul, so despite claims by the WH press secretary, no one is going to be flying out U.S citizens or the Afghani’s who helped them.
      
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      August 19, 2021 12:00pm
      - Batman
        
        How strange that you’re wrong again, Fletch
        
        https://www.cbsnews.com/video/evacuations-resume-at-kabul-airport-a-day-after-deadly-chaos-on-the-tarmac/#app
        
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        August 19, 2021 12:04pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Evacualtions Batman or “troop” movements?
        
        Time will tell but you’re not often right.
        
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        August 19, 2021 12:37pm
      - Inandout
        
        Fletch, it changes by the hour.
        https://www.foxnews.com/politics/afghanistan-kabul-could-fall-taliban-90-days
        
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        August 19, 2021 12:57pm
    - curry4me
      
      Steve Otto(North Shore) I ust downtick him, and don’t reply. No point in that.
      
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      August 19, 2021 4:36pm
  - Fletch
    
    Trump’s deal was endorsed by the U.N Security Council and called for a gradual withdrawal, not the sudden leaving in the middle of the night without telling anyone and the leaving behind of U.S citizens and the Afghani’s who helped them. As per Mike Pence’s column in the Wall Street Journal –
    
    In February 2020, the Trump administration reached an agreement that required the Taliban to end all attacks on U.S. military personnel, to refuse terrorists safe harbor, and to negotiate with Afghan leaders on creating a new government. As long as these conditions were met, the U.S. would conduct a gradual and orderly withdrawal of military forces.
    
    Unanimously endorsed by the United Nations Security Council, the agreement immediately brought to Afghanistan a stability unseen in decades. In the past 18 months, the U.S. has not suffered a single combat casualty there.
    
    By the time we left office, the Afghan government and the Taliban each controlled their respective territories, neither was mounting major offensives, and America had only 2,500 U.S. troops in the country—the smallest military presence since the war began in 2001.
    
    America’s endless war was coming to a dignified end, and Bagram Air Base ensured we could conduct counterterrorism missions through the war’s conclusion.
    
    The progress our administration made toward ending the war was possible because Taliban leaders understood that the consequences of violating the deal would be swift and severe. After our military took out Iranian terrorist Qasem Soleimani, and U.S. Special Forces killed the leader of ISIS, the Taliban had no doubt we would keep our promise.
    
    But when Mr. Biden became president, he quickly announced that U.S. forces would remain in Afghanistan for an additional four months without a clear reason for doing so. There was no plan to transport the billions of dollars worth of American equipment recently captured by the Taliban, or evacuate the thousands of Americans now scrambling to escape Kabul, or facilitate the regional resettlement of the thousands of Afghan refugees who will now be seeking asylum in the U.S. with little or no vetting. Rather, it seems that the president simply didn’t want to appear to be abiding by the terms of a deal negotiated by his predecessor.
    
    Once Mr. Biden broke the deal, the Taliban launched a major offensive against the Afghan government and seized Kabul. They knew there was no credible threat of force under this president. They’ve seen him kowtow to anti-Semitic terrorist groups like Hamas, restore millions of dollars in aid to the Palestinian Authority, and sit by earlier this year while thousands of rockets rained down on Israeli civilians.
    
    Weakness arouses evil—and the magnitude of evil now rising in Afghanistan speaks volumes about the weaknesses of Mr. Biden. To limit the carnage, the president has ordered more troops to Afghanistan, tripling our military presence amid a supposed withdrawal.
    
    After 20 years, more than 2,400 American deaths, 20,000 Americans wounded, and over $2 trillion spent, the American people are ready to bring our troops home.
    
    But the manner in which Mr. Biden has executed this withdrawal is a disgrace, unworthy of the courageous American service men and women whose blood still stains the soil of Afghanistan.
    
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-pence-biden-broke-our-deal-with-the-taliban-11629238764?mod=e2fb#
    
    Joe’s dementia is not funny any more. He is a dangerous man and should be impeached.
    
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    August 19, 2021 12:20pm
    - dcrane
      
      Thank you. The disaster of this week happened because the Biden administration broke the agreement Trump had cut with the Taliban, broke the May withdrawal deadline, and tried to replace it with an incomplete withdrawal. The Taliban resumed fighting after the US broke the deal. I don’t know if this was about providing a fig-leaf presence in a protected Kabul to cover the massive FP failure, or because competing interests couldn’t settle on whether we were going to leave or not once Trump was out. But there is no case for pinning this on Trump, who, unlike Obama, actually tried to do what he was elected to do on the Afghanistan war.
      
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      August 19, 2021 2:10pm
      - Batman
        
        You guys are living in lala land if you think that joke of deal, which didn’t include the Afghan government, was going to last five bloody minutes.
        
        Nikki Haley was right in her tweet this morning.
        
        It was time to get out but let’s face it, the Taliban is following the Hitler playbook circa 1939 and you willingly believed them!
        
        Peace in our time.
        
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        August 19, 2021 5:35pm
surfing

Trying to find a covid testing station… the map here…
https://bopcovid.nz/testing-centres/

Shows there is only one testing station, which is closed.

Says to call healthline on 08003585453… I do, but they hang-up because they are too busy.

I tried the search function on this page…
https://www.healthpoint.co.nz/covid-19/

Enter my location, and it comes up with GP clinics….the ones I tried are closed.

FFS…. my son was in several locations of interest, they don’t make it easy to find a testing station.
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August 19, 2021 11:34am
- Tall Man
  
  Is he unwell?
  
  If so, contact your GP.
  
  If he’s not, pour another drink and relax 🙂
  
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  August 19, 2021 12:35pm
westernScientest

the grifter is out grifting again:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300386269/covid19-nz-modeller-shaun-hendy-says-we-are-dealing-with-a-large-cluster

would be nice if he sheared confidence intervals, maybe [0, 80000] or something like that seems likely.

Its funny in the very early days, like feb last year, someone on redit reverse engineered the china cases and found that they were almost definitely using a polynomial to generate the number, the poster gave the equation, to generate their case numbers. They predicted what the next week or something of reported cases were going to be, by the day to within like 1 case a day.
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August 19, 2021 11:42am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  An interesting site to look at for NSW case data:
  https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Pages/weekly-reports.aspx
  
  For the weekly periods commencing 13 June – 24 July weekly case numbers were:
  8, 110, 171, 314, 656, 859
  
  In NZ daily case numbers since Tuesday have been:
  1, 6, (15)?
  
  So within 3 days NZ has raced ahead of NSW’s first week – personally I think Hendy’s under cooked this one and just looks in a crystal ball which don’t have confidence levels to share.
  
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  August 19, 2021 1:02pm
  - westernScientest
    
    hmm interesting, a quick calc, ignore any differences, ignore any change from lockdowns etc. and reality basically, simple 3rd order poly, in order from days from yesterday recentered to start at when NSW had 8 cases:
    8, 12, 16, 21, 28, 35, 44
    
    but today we are up to 21 in total, so playing a bit of catch up.
    If we recentre to todays totals, we get:
    21, 28, 35, 44, 54, 65, 78
    
    or if we assume it got into the community with one case on the 9th (the first day suggested it could have got out from the podium of truth today), then we could say today there is 35 today in total then going forward:
    44,54,65,78,92,108
    
    so assume tomorrow catch up some of the difference, could see anywhere from 14 to 23 cases.
    
    Obviously this is a completely rubbish model that took me 5 minutes to implement, so its probably even less useful than the grifters.
    Interestingly, using the NSW data, and assuming they are finding all cases, which obviously they wont be, to get hendys number of 100 cases, you assume a date of first transmission into the community on the 3rd, or to get the 120 he was suggesting earlier, the 1st. Maybe the reason for the release of locations of interest on the 3rd?
    
    Again, this is a rubbish back of the envelope model, it is only a touch more likely to reproduce the real world outcomes than a random number generator. There is no way I would use this in the real world.
    
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    August 19, 2021 2:39pm
- curry4me
  
  westernScientist: He’s right there is a cluster. It’s located on the ninth floor of the Beehive.
  
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  August 19, 2021 4:37pm
Stu2

The impact of covid has been felt in another way in NSW – no level 2, 3 or 4 elective surgery from Monday

Level 1 remains – it is for procedures that need to be performed within 30 days, with the potential for the patient to deteriorate quickly and become an emergency
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August 19, 2021 11:43am
- Tall Man
  
  As I have said, my son and his wife are having another child in a few weeks and “protocols” now mean their daughter will be prohibited from entering the hospital. The stupidity appalls me.
  
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  August 19, 2021 12:34pm
- kowtow
  
  In order to “protect” the very old and very sick , many who weren’t bothered to protect themselves ( obese) the whole western world has been turned on its head.
  
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  August 19, 2021 12:52pm
Tony Stuart

Sky City has just advised that around 1000 patrons and 240 staff were in the casino when a Covid-positive guest was there on Saturday night/Sunday morning.

Best we stock up on bog-rolls and beer; this could be a long term of home detention.
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August 19, 2021 11:54am
- westernScientest
  
  dont forget the coffee
  
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  August 19, 2021 11:57am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    We currently have a bigger stock of coffee than we do of loo paper, and we have plenty of loo paper!
    
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    August 19, 2021 12:11pm
    - westernScientest
      
      haha well done, I effed up, nearly out of coffee, and need to put another brew of beer on. Plenty of bog roll though, figure I might sell it if this goes on for too long and the prices spike
      
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      August 19, 2021 12:28pm
      - artemisia
        
        Heh, on another site a poster said they bought a large quantity of decking timber recently. For a large deck. The supplier has asked if they’d like to sell some back.
        
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        August 19, 2021 1:56pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Capitalist competition. Maggie has some for sale. Let’s have a price war
        
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        August 19, 2021 2:41pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  And did you see on the MOH website they’ve also identified Bus 25b as a source on the same day
  ….City to Mt Roskill!!
  
  No surprises there 🙁
  
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  August 19, 2021 12:05pm
  - doggone7
    
    “Sky City has just advised that around 1000 patrons and 240 staff were in the casino.”
    
    Did you mean since such a lot of people headed out it was no surprise Bus 25b was a source?
    
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    August 19, 2021 12:46pm
    - Batman
      
      I suspect Maggie was referring to Mount Roskill being a suburb with people other than her kind of people…
      
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      August 19, 2021 5:42pm
Close Hen Counters

Big tip for swab queues – don’t do drive in. Walk in. If you are not sick at all and don’t need a swab to work frontline, don’t come at all. Balmoral road clinic is backed up to Mt Eden road – it’s a shambles
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August 19, 2021 11:55am
- Tall Man
  
  I thought the requirement was for you to be symptomatic but I suppose that won’t produce the panic numbers ardern and the media thrive on.
  
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  August 19, 2021 12:31pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Depends how you feel. If you feel like you might get it, get a test just in case. Wonder if the asymptomatic numbers are being fudged?
    This current lot are not to be trusted – compulsive liars
    
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    August 19, 2021 2:44pm
timmy

Any chance we could get updates from the govt around cases v people who are actually sick? I really do wonder what the difference in these totals would be… (same with Australia too.)
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August 19, 2021 11:55am
- westernScientest
  
  haha of course not
  
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  August 19, 2021 12:15pm
- 2ic
  
  Sick? That would require the government treating this as a health issue.
  
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  August 19, 2021 12:26pm
- Tall Man
  
  Easily done, but not scary enough.
  
  We need to keep the batmen scared by big numbers not realistic stats.
  
  Working on the fact that the tradie in Auckland got tested, he was either symptomatic or was pushed into it. I vote for symptomatic and his GP has suggested a test.
  
  The rest, pretty sure they are young so are probably asymptomatic but have been found by testing but I’ll bet none are actually ill as we normally expect “ill” to be defined.
  
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  August 19, 2021 12:28pm
- krazykiwi
  
  I’d prefer the Singapore model: Don’t report infection or case numbers at all. Hospitalisations perhaps, but the other statistics lead to (or a are designed to) generate panic.
  
  We need less panic. Much less.
  
  We need sober assessment of the real risk.
  
  Not fear-factory generated alarmism.
  
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  August 19, 2021 1:45pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That would also include those with the flu – can’t have that
  
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  August 19, 2021 2:45pm
westernScientest

no new taxes
https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/real-estate/126087911/the-surprising-ways-new-property-tax-rules-impact-on-families
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August 19, 2021 11:56am
- Tall Man
  
  Yes but plenty of old lies.
  
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  August 19, 2021 12:29pm
- Jack5
  
  Our capital gain tax remains among the world’s lighter tolls on property gains.
  
  When NZ recognises the economic mess left by printing $40 billion and mad Government spending, the State will be scrambling to get every tax cent it can.
  
  If Labour remains in power, even a return to death duties will be a possibililtiy.
  
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  August 19, 2021 12:44pm
Nickc2

Well, it worked, didn’t it!
One mention of Covid-19 Mod D and:
He Puapua,
Electrical Vehicles,
3 Waters and
Man Made Power Cuts
are no longer topics of conversation in the media and on KB for that matter.
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August 19, 2021 12:11pm
- westernScientest
  
  they haven’t gone away though, and dont forget hate speech laws and criminalising parents for not wanting to sterilise their children.
  
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  August 19, 2021 1:29pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Apologies, I forgot that one.
    
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    August 19, 2021 1:58pm
- kevn
  
  @Nick2… But, the wheels will still be turning that way and unnoticed for now. Nek minit.
  
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  August 19, 2021 2:24pm
- wilderbeast
  
  So true. Have heard though that Ardern did not reply to the deadline handed down by the “Howl of a Protest” crowd, her prerogative I guess. But apparently membership and donations are through the roof and another protest is lined up for November that is likely to make the last look small. I think I’ll go – I’m not a farmer and my issues are slightly different, but the principle is the same.
  
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  August 19, 2021 5:47pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Go for it!
    
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    August 19, 2021 6:53pm
CAKE FACE1

The shrew Sharon Murdoch who is supposed to be a cartoonist has managed an even more pathetic effort than usual today, which is actually incredible, given her consistency in being infantile.

This cartoon shows some takeaways at a doorstep labelled “Delta”, being carried by a virus.

What does it all mean? That Ro is carried by takeaways? Or that we should be so filled with fear that we “Do not open the door!”?

I suspect the only purpose of this childish drawing is simply to fear monger.

Awful woman.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/94869389/sharon-murdoch-cartoons
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August 19, 2021 12:33pm
- Weinerpoop
  
  She is a very unfunny rampant leftie/greenie, Stuff is a total waste of time now, at least the Herald is now writing critical pieces regarding the government.
  
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  August 19, 2021 1:38pm
  - curry4me
    
    Weinerpoop: The ever lovin, ever lyin left are full of such people. It’s their natural home.
    
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    August 19, 2021 4:42pm
Southern Raider

Why is it that the country has to wait until the daily Jacinta standup routine to find out what is going on?

Ashley said that new cases would be know overnight so why isn’t the media able to report on those details as they become available
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August 19, 2021 12:52pm
- R
  
  Very good question. It’s also interesting to note that the PM is consistently late to the 1pm meeting. What does that tell us?
  
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  August 19, 2021 1:24pm
  - [email protected]
    
    We turned our TV off about six years ago. Don’t miss it at all.
    
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    August 19, 2021 1:49pm
  - I remember when
    
    You can just imagine the Taliban emigration officer looking out over the tarmac and saying,
    “There’s still a small group that haven’t been collected yet, that must be the New Zealand contingent.
    
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    August 19, 2021 1:55pm
  - lifesgood
    
    Yes and this has been widely commented on. It is a sign of disrespect and arrogance to be late for appointments, just what you would expect from this bogan. I saw a few minutes of the briefing today, as much as I could stand. I found it hard to work out which was the language signer.
    
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    August 19, 2021 2:34pm
  - wilderbeast
    
    Tells me there’s no respect for anyone but herself. After turning up 8 mins late it took at least another 5 to get the crunchy data, and then it was on to the Afghanistan deployment ?
    
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    August 19, 2021 5:48pm
- westernScientest
  
  because then their would no reason to have cidy on tv to driver her poll numbers up
  
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  August 19, 2021 1:24pm
Brian McDonald

With many here decrying who are frightened and who are not, some 40 NZ soldiers left for a mission to Afghanistan this morning. I do not know if Albert Moore NZGS was among them but he represents Moore’s involvement in the NZ Army for over 100 years. He lost at least 3 uncles over the period of WWI and 2, his father served in Viet Nam. Like the others, he is no different to any other soldier doing his job for NZ apart to his family.
I trust they all return safely.
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August 19, 2021 1:02pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  As do we all Brian. Godspeed NZDF.
  
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  August 19, 2021 3:05pm
- wilderbeast
  
  Bang on!
  
  While many fall for Jacinda’s fear tactics and find comfort in the bosom of suburbia those brave souls tread into a living hell. About time Jacinda and her acolytes grew a pair.
  
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  August 19, 2021 5:51pm
cmm

Let’s do this!

We have to take this pandemic on the chin sometime. We can’t hide under our beds forever.

Let’s just take it on the chin so we can get back to normal.
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August 19, 2021 1:03pm
Colville

Just had a text that someone has tested positive in Christchurch…..

Farrrrrkkkkk!!
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August 19, 2021 1:09pm
- cmm
  
  Inevitable.
  Thousands of potential contacts all over Auckland, at least some will have flown to SI.
  They still have not dug to the bottom to find the sources for the positives in Auckland. It would be naive to expect them to all be limited to Auckland.
  
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  August 19, 2021 1:27pm
- MrTips
  
  That’s news to my colleagues at CDHB…..
  
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  August 19, 2021 1:32pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    They’ll be the last to know, if CDHB’s performance over the last 10 years is any indication…
    
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    August 19, 2021 2:13pm
- barnacle bill
  
  Still waiting for the news re Chch with a positive case..
  Please supply a link please..
  
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  August 19, 2021 2:46pm
  - Colville
    
    a link to the text I got? 🙂
    
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    August 19, 2021 3:21pm
  - herb1
    
    There was a suspected case at Southern Cross yesterday and the place was shut down and deep cleaned , but apparently false alarm thank goodness
    
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    August 19, 2021 4:13pm
- MCos
  
  Someone tested positive in MIQ at the Commodore Hotel.
  
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  August 19, 2021 3:09pm
Maggie Pie

1pm Briefing….

Reporting 95 locations now identified as ‘places of interest’!
Not a mention anywhere of Remuera.
Just goes to show the importance of frequent hand-washing and personal cleanliness.
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August 19, 2021 1:10pm
- Ehlana
  
  Just for your Maggie, from the Locations of Interest list:
  Remuera Exchange
  2A Dilworth Avenue, Remura, Auckland 1050 Monday 9 August 6.30 am – 7.45 am
  
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  August 19, 2021 1:26pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Earlier identified as….. ‘a visitor from Mt Roskill’ 🙁
    
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    August 19, 2021 1:33pm
  - Nickc2
    
    What is the Remuera Exchange? A Chinese $2.00 Shop or a relief food outlet?
    It can’t be too flash being in Remuera, can it?
    
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    August 19, 2021 2:11pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      NO SILLY! It’s the Spark telecom control center for the hood.
      One of the girls from tennis reckons he was looking for copper wire to nick Nick.
      
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      August 19, 2021 2:40pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Touchet Maggie.
        
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        August 19, 2021 2:41pm
  - doggone7
    
    Guess there’ll be hordes from Mt Roskill who normally head to Remmers to be housekeepers, window washers, dog washers who’ll have to stick to their own ‘hood.
    
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    August 19, 2021 3:39pm
- I remember when
  
  I hope you managed to get your Christmas Shopping done and Cards for Christmas in the mail before lockdown Maggie.
  
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  August 19, 2021 1:43pm
Pheobe

Very apt…
Farmers be like….
What a great morning….
Went to bed an environmental criminal, and woke up an essential
Service to the country….
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August 19, 2021 1:15pm
- westernScientest
  
  dont forget to toot tomorrow at 1230
  
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  August 19, 2021 1:23pm
- Nickc2
  
  With a massive responsibility to repay the current Govt’s debt.
  IMO, Farmers should be admired, not besmirched as is common practice with this Marxist Govt.
  
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  August 19, 2021 2:06pm
- miltonF
  
  Hehe. Just like how the govt blames Genesis for burning too much coal, and now they blame them for not burning enough! From environmental terrorists to society’s saviour overnight. I’ve never seen such an unprincipled lot in my life!
  
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  August 19, 2021 4:44pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Daily dispatch from Kaiti Mall…

We started off for the 4-square, but with a queue 10- deep, I knew hubby wouldn’t cope…. so we carried on to the ~~ghetto~~ mall.

I balked at the price of the veges..and hubby set off to look for the eggs… he came back and told me that there wouldn’t be any until tomorrow…
“oh, just get some fresh bread, then”, I said.

“There isn’t any there”, he exclaimed…and then in a very loud voice called out..”We are going to starve, Thank You, Jacinda”

At that point, I decided it was time to decamp….
You would have thought that after 40+ years of being hitched to me, he should have realised that he is never going to starve if I’m around.

So, cheese & tom & gherkin toasties for lunch….

But he’s a sucka for punishment…he’s turned on the
message from the podium.
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August 19, 2021 1:16pm
- cmm
  
  We’ve pretty much given up buying bread and make our own.
  
  Handy hint: fresh yeast is better than the dry stuff. Most supermarket bakeries sell it for approx $1 for 100g. Much better flavour than dry. Keeps for about 2 weeks in the fridge (keep it in a sealed glass/plastic container lined with baking paper).
  
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  August 19, 2021 1:31pm
  - Ruawai
    
    We’ve given up listening o the podium.
    
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    August 19, 2021 1:39pm
    - septic skeptic
      
      I watched the Ash and Cinders show today. The churnalists bowl mostly loopy offspin at question time. Toughest one I heard was why aren’t more cops jabbed. Personally, I would have gone with:
      
      Why was there a plan to have the lowest vaccination rate in the OECD, less than half the average?
      
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      August 19, 2021 2:23pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Impossible to get fresh yeast in Gisborne… not enough demand, I was told.
    
    I do bake my own bread a couple of times a week… sometimes dry yeast and sometimes from my sour dough starter….It’s our main breakfast/ toast bread.
    
    I prefer commercial stuff for egg sandwiches…
    
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    August 19, 2021 1:48pm
    - cmm
      
      Try the bakery departments. Surely gizzy has those.
      
      The yeast isn’t in bags ready to go. They chop some off the big blocks they use for their in-store baking.
      
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      August 19, 2021 5:46pm
lazza

I fell about laughing at this “turn of phrase” … and … its very wise too …

“Bowalley” Chris writes “Quote”:

“No more … the brutal confidence that once allowed illiterate British redcoats to make a gift of the world to their lords and masters. For better or for worse, those days (Afghanistan “FAIL”) … are gone.”
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August 19, 2021 1:33pm
- kowtow
  
  Now it’s illiterate Pushtoon Pakistanis being the neo colonialists telling, at the point of a gun, the rest of the Afghan tribes wot to do.
  
  Has Chris Trotsky anything to say to that .
  
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  August 19, 2021 2:44pm
Southern Raider

I see the Herald has dropped the vaccination tracker banner from its website.

Must have got the word from Jacinda that it was being too transparent
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August 19, 2021 1:33pm
I remember when

Just in case you are not frightened enough.
Newshub: Tova O’Brien: 17 Hours ago:
It’s been more than a year since our last Alert Level 4.
COVID-19 was scary then and now that we’re dealing with Delta it’s terrifying – terrifying but beatable.
Thought for a moment she was going to go ‘over the top’.
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August 19, 2021 1:34pm
Ruawai

Have just turned off the single source of truth propaganda machine. She talks as though we are all 5 years olds and very patronising. Makes my stomach churn just listening to her rabbit on and on and on, especially when it is her fault we kept the oz border open longer and didn’t require retuning kiwis to go into MIQ and she didn’t order enough vaccines early enough. Grrrrr and now we have to pay the consequences of missing out on our plans and business missing income.
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August 19, 2021 1:36pm
- doggone7
  
  They don’t open the border? We’re all prisoners.
  They open the borders? They’re rash.
  
  There’s no bubble with Australia?
  There should be a bubble with Australia.
  
  Something goes wrong with the Australia bubble? We shouldn’t have had anything to do with Australia
  
  They don’t trust people one iota? They should stop treating us like children.
  
  They trust people and someone does something dumb? They shouldn’t have trusted people.
  
  The Prime Minister fronts and talks?
  She’s making it all about her.
  The Prime Minister doesn’t front and talk?
  She’s hiding.
  
  The Prime Minister gives context with background and detail?
  She’s talking too much.
  The Prime Minister gives only brief specific detail.
  She’s keeping us in the dark.
  
  That’s the realm we’re in.
  
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  August 19, 2021 2:15pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    There is some truth in what you say. But:
    1 The pace of the vaccination rollout is pathetic compared with countries that we aspire to be compared to.
    2 It is a dumb decision to suspend the vaccination program even for a couple of days.
    3 If we are going to vaccinate our way out of perpetual lockdowns, we should have ordered the booster shots already.
    4 I suspect we should have better ICU preparedness. They better hope this doesn’t get away like it has in Sydney.
    
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    August 19, 2021 3:34pm
  - Prince
    
    She lies. That is all.
    
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    August 19, 2021 4:03pm
- MCos
  
  “She talks as though we are all 5 years olds”
  
  As explained by the PM the person who probably brought the virus into the country on the 7th was staying in MIQ and tested positive on the 9th.
  Nothing to do with the trans Tasman bubble.
  
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  August 19, 2021 2:37pm
  - doggone7
    
    I thought that the trans Tasman bubble was an arrangement between NZ and Australia to open things up and make things easier. Similar places in similar situations.
    
    Which gave the possibility of the person coming here.
    
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    August 19, 2021 2:56pm
  - rangitoto
    
    Then come come there are places of interest for 3rd August.
    
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    August 19, 2021 3:14pm
    - MCos
      
      Doesn’t make sense does it.
      
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      August 19, 2021 6:10pm
Maggie Pie

And did you hear Bloomers referring to the country as ….MOTU.

I hope the needles blunt.
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August 19, 2021 1:52pm
- DeepBlue
  
  He says that all the time. A classic case of pidgin English.
  
  All DHBs = DHBs across the motu.
  
  It’s like he has to get the one word of Te Reo in that he is confident with.
  
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  August 19, 2021 2:27pm
Loddenthinks

I’m just going to leave this here…

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/08/coronavirus-ministry-of-health-assures-kiwis-rumours-of-imminent-lockdown-not-true.html?__twitter_impression=true
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August 19, 2021 2:14pm
kevn

ahhh. The Pulpit of Truth/lies. You choose.
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August 19, 2021 2:19pm
dcrane

“The PM said the current positive cases are a close match with a recent returnee from Sydney on a managed red zone flight on August 7…..That person returned a positive result on August 9 and was transferred from Crowne Plaza to the Jet Park quarantine facility that same day….They were taken to Middlemore Hospital on August 16…..The current cases most likely came from the traveller.”

Last August it already seemed clear that elimination as a strategy shouldn’t be combined with (all but) complete lack of restrictions for day-to-day life, because inevitable leaks would run amok in the general population and get past potential control by contract tracers before first detection, and require Level 3/4 disruption for weeks at a time. If the Delta variant is indeed a lot more contagious, this is now an even greater concern. We will have more of these.

I guess is the problem is that too much of the population doesn’t view Level 4 as the extraordinarily destructive action that it is, because they’re retired, on the dole, on the Ardern/Labour tribal team, or have pajama jobs in admin or on the public salary that go on no matter what. Otherwise there would be more pressure against this unsustainable strategy.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-piece-of-the-puzzle-were-looking-for-outbreak-linked-to-sydney-returnee-11-new-cases-2-in-hospital/TFZ2ZWBBU2URMVH6IEQRBDBXAM/
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August 19, 2021 2:24pm
- krazykiwi
  
  If the Delta variant is indeed a lot more contagious, this is now an even greater concern.
  
  Increased contagiousness is significantly less of a concern if accompanied lower innate lethality and better developed treatment protocols.
  
  There are fewer people dying from the Delta variant, a welcome if not completely understood outcome.
  
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  August 19, 2021 3:06pm
  - dcrane
    
    Agreed, a greater concern only assuming zero covid is the demand.
    
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    August 19, 2021 3:21pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I guess is the problem is that too much of the population doesn’t view Level 4 as the extraordinarily destructive action that it is, because they’re retired
  
  Retired folks are probably amongst some of the most ropable over this mishmash.
  We have never seen such an appallingly inefficient Government in our lifetime…and we’ve lived through a few dozies…
  
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  August 19, 2021 3:20pm
DeepBlue

Whatever you think of Jacinda you have to acknowledge her ability to spin 6000 Police as unvaccinated as being a good thing. During the sermon she lay the foundation at least 3 times to beat back any pesky negativity. Just amazeballs.
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August 19, 2021 2:31pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

With fuck all vehicles on the road, think of all the fuel not being wasted in congested traffic. Saving the planet, Greta says thanks.
The Govt says ‘what about all of the Tax we are not getting?’ See what you have fucked up now Jaspinda?
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August 19, 2021 2:49pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  No tax means no production, no work, purpose for living?, anxious family, no shopping, no retail staff, no trade staff, no deliveries, no shipping, no banking, no payments, uncared stock, excess electricity demand, no medical care…and a lot more.
  
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  August 19, 2021 3:14pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Labour never been in private sector business, so they just will not comprehend this
    
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    August 19, 2021 4:10pm
Southern Raider

Just heard people are ringing the COVID hotline around booking 12 to 16 year olds in for jabs. Hotline team know nothing about it.

Also they introduced a new isolation order for those family’s of close contacts but MoH website doesn’t mention it

Almost sounds like Jacinda is late to the 1pm stand ups as she’s making last minute captains calls and MoH can’t keep up
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August 19, 2021 2:57pm
- MCos
  
  The young kids need to front up with their parents when they get vaccinated.
  
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  August 19, 2021 6:07pm
Observer of Life

If you’re bored, go to http://www.trademe.co.nz and in the search bar type “part loaf of bread”. Read the Q/A section. Hilarious.
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August 19, 2021 3:08pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Even CNN turning on sleepy Joe?
https://rumble.com/vldf31-cnn-forced-to-admit-bidens-claims-not-lining-up-with-reality.html?
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August 19, 2021 3:25pm
- Tall Man
  
  Pffttt, biden doesn’t line up with reality.
  
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  August 19, 2021 6:17pm
Benedict Yu

Good to see 12 to 16 hear olds will be vaccinated ?
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August 19, 2021 3:29pm
- CAKE FACE1
  
  Given the vaccines seem to be pretty much useless at stopping transmission, and 12 – 15 year olds don’t die of the Ro, what is the point?
  
  Was a reason given?
  
  The zero Ro fantasy world now has a fantasy vaccine like that for measles?
  
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  August 19, 2021 3:33pm
  - dcrane
    
    Is it fair to say useless? Honest question – So far it seems clear that there are cases of double-vaxxed people catching and transmitting the virus, and I’ve read of some having vial loads equal to unvaxxed. But I haven’t seen a careful comparison yet showing that, on average, the vaxxed are just as likely to transmit the virus. It might be difficult to tease this out of the available data.
    
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    August 19, 2021 4:00pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Reason? Socialist control. 15 year olds will vote in 3 years
    
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    August 19, 2021 4:07pm
    - Batman
      
      Or its just medsafe approvals and managing available supply to get those pesky boomers and haggard Gen Xers vaccinated first…
      
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      August 19, 2021 5:52pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I don’t know what “Ro” is?
    
    Define “useless”. 50 percent effectiveness is not useless. And children are highly infectious. Have you had young children? If so you will know what I mean.
    
    So we will give them boosters every 8 months and wait for a second generation of vaccines.
    
    I want to get out of this locked down mess. I’ve got no tolerance of people refusing to get vaccinated or to vaccinate their children. The next step will be 5 to 11 year olds. I am guessing that will freak you out?
    
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    August 19, 2021 4:25pm
    - dcrane
      
      If the government is serious about getting the most people vaccinated, without force anyway, then they need to announce a date certain for opening the country, one that is not a year or more away.
      
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      August 19, 2021 5:25pm
    - cmm
      
      “50 percent effectiveness is not useless.”
      
      Well not much better than useless because 50% (and from the numbers I have seen it is nowhere near that effective) will not stop it getting to everyone.
      
      It won’t stop the relentless spread of the virus. The benefit comes from:
      * Slowing the spread (ie. less chance of hospitals getting full).
      * Potentially less harm to those who do get sick.
      
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      August 19, 2021 5:53pm
      - Tall Man
        
        So why are we not pumping ivermectin into the vulnerable, vaccinated or not. If it doesn’t work what’s lost?
        
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        August 19, 2021 6:14pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Work with me here Benedict. Kids don’t get sick from covid, correct?
      
      “Vaccination” doesn’t prevent you from catching covid or passing it on when you do catch it, correct?
      
      “Vaccination” may, repeat may, reduce your infection level. but kids don’t get infected, correct.
      
      There is always a possible downside (side effect)
      
      Why inflict this on your kids or anyone else’s?
      
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      August 19, 2021 6:11pm
    - fernglas
      
      “Ro” is a term Cakeface uses to show that s/he knows more about this topic than the rest of us.
      
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      August 19, 2021 6:30pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Ro ro ro your boat gently down the stream ….
        
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        August 19, 2021 10:05pm
- MrTips
  
  Sorry, I can’t agree Benedict.
  
  The evidence shows even delta does not affect the <18yrs as much as thought, on a population level.
  https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w
  
  Plus the AZ is full of impurities, most likely viral and human HEK293 cell proteins.
  https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-477964/v1
  We don’t know fully what’s in the Pfizer one yet.
  
  With a PhD and 25yrs of biomedical research experience I’m not letting anybody stick this experimental stuff into my kids <16yrs. MMR and tetanus, go for it – they’re proven. Novovax – yes, it’s tried and tested formulae and method. This Pfizer, AZ or J&J shit? No way.
  
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  August 19, 2021 4:19pm
  - westernScientest
    
    Im interested why no interest in J&J? I know very little about it as its not available here so haven’t bothered passed its a viral vector vaccine that may or may not perform as well as the others and may or may not have more or less side effects the the others.
    
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    August 19, 2021 5:40pm
- kowtow
  
  Why , they don’t get knocked over by the sniffle .
  
  Waste of priority , which should go to the fearful and vulnerable.
  
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  August 19, 2021 4:36pm
  - cmm
    
    It’s not driven by science – it’s driven by fear.
    
    Parents want their kids “saved” even if there is a teenie-tiny chance of a problem. It’s a peace of mind exercise – not actually driven by need.
    
    Yet those same parents will stuff their kids full of shit and set them up for a life of obesity and ill health.
    
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    August 19, 2021 5:56pm
barnacle bill

Any other show that rates this high ?

I cant think of any other show, but surely Kiwi Bloggers will think of others.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/126124298/delta-is-here-to-shake-up-season-3-top-imdb-rating-for-return-of-daily-covid19-briefings
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August 19, 2021 3:59pm
- Tall Man
  
  Fuckwits in paradise?
  
  Whatever simpletons want the foolish will provide 😉
  
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  August 19, 2021 10:08pm
herb1

Watching Biden on ABC I can well imagines Americans now being willing to admit and hope Biden stole the election.
The option that they willingly voted for him is starting to look a little sad
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August 19, 2021 4:07pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  For those who made a mistake, denial is a river in Africa
  
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  August 19, 2021 4:12pm
- Harriet
  
  It takes a special kind of stupid to fuck two countries in 10 months. 😎
  
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  August 19, 2021 5:29pm
Goon

We’ll see how good the grapevine is…..chat @ 4pm has a WuFlu case in ChCh to be announced shortly. All the covidiot queuing this am won’t have been in vain after all.
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August 19, 2021 4:13pm
- PeeJay
  
  So hoping this is not the case – snow is looking bloody awesome at the moment and it’d be a shame to miss it! I mean, priorities right?
  
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  August 19, 2021 5:13pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Cough cough cough whoosh ……….
    
    No idea what you’re talking about 😉
    
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    August 19, 2021 10:13pm
- dcrane
  
  Assoc. health minister just claimed no knowledge on ZB…
  
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  August 19, 2021 5:22pm
  - Tall Man
    
    “Assoc. health minister just claimed no knowledge on ZB”
    
    Yep, you’re on to it ..
    
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    August 19, 2021 10:15pm
Maggie Pie

BREAKING…. (watch*)

Things are going from bad to worse for Hunter.
He reveals to naked prostitute that Russian Drug Dealers stole his Laptop for Blackmail.

Could spell BIG TROUBLE for dad Joe !!

https://twitter.com/ExposeTheMedia/status/1428195695127826438

*WARNING: graphic images & vulgar language. Viewer discretion advised 😛
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August 19, 2021 4:25pm
- cmm
  
  I know it’s 2021 and all that, but did anyone ever think they’d see videos splattered over the internet of a president’s kid up to his eyeballs in hookers and drugs? WTF has the world come to?
  
  I suppose it’s because he’s a high-flying artist – they always seem to have interesting lives!
  
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  August 19, 2021 6:02pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  My partner just got home so called him in to have a look at the vid.
  
  Know the first thing he said….”What sort of homo would downtick your post?”
  
  LOL!!!!
  
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  August 19, 2021 6:07pm
kowtow

PM thanks wallah for getting tested and revealing the dreaded delta is amongst us .

What the actual , they haven’t been doing daily or even twice daily sewerage testing all over this land ?

Don’t have the resources ?

One day’s lockdown costs 250 million , come on you can’t say these Muppets are “managing ” sfa!
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August 19, 2021 4:38pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Think the Rosedale samples have to be sent to Wellington to be tested. Tell me why? Can we not test in Auckland? or do the results need fudging?
  Serious questions, not my satire. Fucks sake!!!
  
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  August 19, 2021 4:56pm
Happychappy

Here is a story on our Finance Minister Grant Robertson and his honesty on COVID-19 funds .
I have had plenty of people question me when I have said Jacinda Ardern and Grant Robertson used $26.6 Million to pay for camera’s on all fishing boats in New Zealand, well that not all they have done using money from the $ 50 Billion Covid 19 funds , $515 Million went on School lunches ,$17 .1 Million to fund Creative Spaces and $ 3.6 Billion to the implementation and Housing Acceleration Fund with other funding to Te Papa Spirit Collection Area and the NZ Symphony Orchestra and the Royal Ballet
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/08/borrowing-not-on-finance-minister-grant-robertson-s-agenda-despite-millions-spent-on-non-covid-issues-from-coronavirus-fund.html
So now we have Grant Robertson our Finance Minister saying about the Latest lockdown borrowing is not on the agenda. If the National Party had done this Labour would be screaming corruption and demanding heads to roll, but not a whimper from Jacinda Ardern who must of okayed these payments.
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August 19, 2021 4:51pm

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