General Debate 21 August 2021

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Vory v zakone

Today in Australia.
National Rally for Peace, Freedom and Human Rights.
I wonder how many will get off their knees ?

https://rumble.com/vlf012-powerful-the-narrative-is-crumbling.-resist-covid-1984..html
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August 21, 2021 8:01am
krazykiwi

Good news. Chad Preston and his 11 year old son Maddox have secured a MIQ slot. Maddox has brain cancer and has undergone treatment in the US.

The heros of this case are the soon returning NZers who offered their MIQ slots to Chad and Maddox, and also Grounded Kiwis who advocated for the family. I believe they were finally approved for an emergency allocation.
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August 21, 2021 8:06am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Isn’t great to see a slither of compassion and humanity still exists, not amongst the monsters perpetrating this farce, but common decent people with integrity.
  I salute you, well done
  Meanwhile the chippy wrapper will be locking one and all down for weeks out of abundance of caution.
  
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  August 21, 2021 8:19am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Jaspinda was surprised they could not get an MIQ spot. Really? Really? Surprised is the new deflection.
  MP for Tijuana was able to do it ….
  
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  August 21, 2021 8:27am
  - Ruahine
    
    “MP for Tijuana was able to do it… ”
    Most of us were not surprised.
    
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    August 21, 2021 8:34am
  - Nickc2
    
    Ah but the Wiggles ……….
    Cindy, your two faces are showing!
    
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    August 21, 2021 8:46am
    - sooty
      
      The question is, how many weeks do they have to wait to get in?
      
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      August 21, 2021 2:22pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Fuck knows Sooty. When is the next diatribe from the podium of truth due? It will probably get a mention then unless her Spin Doctors insist she ignores it in the hope it disappears when another calamity shit show hits the fan.
        
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        August 21, 2021 3:38pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  If we had a Government with a brain they would have drafted in the military to run MIQ and also administer the vaccinations. Our military are regarded as amongst the best there is. They are organised disciplined and used to managing complicated scenarios.
  
  At present they are sitting in their bases and I suspect would like nothing better than to be involved using their talents and doing what they are trained to do serving their country.
  
  But I suspect the Manadrins in Health etc like Bloomfield wont have a bar of this as it would quickly show them up for the incompetents they are.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:38am
  - Ra Henare
    
    You have an over inflated opinion about NZ military(says this veteran).
    Also experienced NZ MIQ twice with military in attendance.
    
    Its a joke mate.
    
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    August 21, 2021 9:46am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Agreed Ra, I wouldn’t trust them to run a bath. Dunno what happened to old mate whatever his name was, Commodore General Sir Hugh Melchett Fotheringay Biscuit-Barrel with the handlebar moustache, full of his own importance and as much use as a chocolate teapot.
      
      You don’t see or hear much from him these days, I wonder why not?
      
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      August 21, 2021 3:34pm
  - michael_s2
    
    Sorry for downtick. Fat fingers.
    
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    August 21, 2021 9:52am
  - kowtow
    
    Really , the appear consumed by wokism.
    
    ‘He predicted that the army’s capability would be eroded as it pursues its ideologically fashionable recruitment and promotion policy and diverts resources and energy into LGBT awareness courses at the expense of combat training. And he finished with the pointed observation that encouraging inclusion and diversity “is of little use if you’re staring down the barrel of a Chinese AK47 from the wrong end”.’
    
    http://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2021/08/diversity-training-isnt-much-help-if.html
    
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    August 21, 2021 10:24am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Let Air NZ run the MIQ bookings.They know how to manage bookings. They even have computer systems to do that! Since the overwhelming majority of travellers arrive by air, there’s a preexisting link. Seems simple, perhaps too much so for this Govt.
    
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    August 21, 2021 12:15pm
    - GTRandRB
      
      That’s a firm “NO” from me – the public’s view of the aforementioned is vastly different to the employee’s view … couldn’t organize a bun fight in a bakery.
      
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      August 21, 2021 2:56pm
Happychappy

???
Just to make Okahu happy.
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August 21, 2021 8:07am
Maggie's partner

Did I detect an element of hostility yesterday in the questions asked of the PM at her 3pm show?
I have a funny feeling, just as it was her salvation, so COVID will be her downfall.
She seems to have misjudged the mood – exhortations to her “team of 5 million” to be kind etc etc just don’t have the same appeal any more.
Ruling by fear only works for so long; at some point the people turn on those who make them afraid, as they come to realise that fear itself is nothing to be frightened of.
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August 21, 2021 8:07am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Yep, I think you’re right MP. there are a few op-eds in the papers today which do not exactly flatter the PM.
  
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  August 21, 2021 8:55am
- Humble Capitalist
  
  You mean the class of 2020 have graduated from kindergarten and quite a few now realise Santa isnt real.
  And Grant’s bags of sweeties that he’s handing out at the school gates are running out….
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:07am
- Simon
  
  “We’ve Got This” Its falling away. Its wearing thin.
  They cant secure the borders, like Cindy said she would and they have not ro vaxxed the vulnerable.
  
  They can order everyone to stay at home but when they are required to do their part they aint got shit.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:16am
  - Libertysparks
    
    Sooner or later, NZ is going to learn that China Flu is a reality that it cant escape. Talk of vaccinating the population is a smoke cloud. People can still get and spread China Flu after being vaccinated. There are people who have been vaccinated who are dying because they had underlying conditions.
    How long after 80% of Kiwis are vaccinated before the border opens? It will be a very, very long time, because China Flu cases will still be perceived as a threat to national security in the eyes of Miss Ardern and Roberson.
    
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    August 21, 2021 12:29pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Imagine for argument’s sake that 100% of a population is vaccinated.
      
      The vaccines are primarily there to significantly reduce the number of people dying and being hospitalised. They do not prevent transmission of the virus.
      
      So, with 100% vaccinated, 100% of the people “with covid” detected in them are vaccinated. The lame stream media could then run a stupid fear-porn headline such as “100% of covid deaths are in people who are vaccinated”!!
      
      Remember pollies can and do fiddle stats to fit narratives. The case of New York covid related elderly deaths in nursing homes springs to mind.
      
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      August 21, 2021 2:32pm
- I will not surrender
  
  A little push back from St Ashley too.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:24am
  - Scooter
    
    Yes he didn’t quite know how to answer the question put to him whether he recommended the lockdown be extended to 31 Aug. Cindy must think NZers will be more compliant if they drip feed the length of lockdown and of course she gets to announce the next announcement.
    
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    August 21, 2021 3:05pm
- Yvette
  
  Maggie’s partner
  In what may be the worst movie Will Smith has starred – and I know some will say that’s all Will Smith movies – there is AFTER EARTH, in which he says –
  
  “Fear is not real. The only place that fear can exist is in our thoughts of the future. It is a product of our imagination, causing us to fear things that do not at present and may not ever exist. That is near insanity. Do not misunderstand me, danger is very real, but fear is a choice.”
  
  I think we have a choice to listen to Ardern or not, and if we do – we still have a choice
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:24am
- maggiemay
  
  Someone (Curly?) posted Peter Dunne’s piece yesterday. Sums it up pretty well. Here’s a link.
  http://honpfd.blogspot.com/
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:29am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Thanks. Well worth a read.
    
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    August 21, 2021 10:52am
  - GTRandRB
    
    he is a good writer
    
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    August 21, 2021 3:10pm
- mandk
  
  I think people are beginning to cotton on to the fact that Ardern has failed the nation two-fold.
  
  She promised us that we would be at the front of the queue for vaccines, while actually leaving us at the back.
  
  And, having done this, she has failed to keep Covid out of the country.
  
  She also risks failing the nation a third time by not ordering booster shots.
  
  Time for her to go.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:30am
  - Paulus
    
    Period, in time and history, will be known as ADE.
    Ardern Disaster Era of New Zealand’s history.
    What an Epitaph !
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:01am
    - Nickc2
      
      Ah, but will it overwrite the Maori version of history?
      
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      August 21, 2021 12:29pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Don’t be silly! In 20 years time you’ll find Maori actually invented COVID, on their way back from Antarctica, doing all their sciencey-stuff.
        
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        August 22, 2021 10:06pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Ardern has overseen the most socially, economically, and culturally destructive changes in New Zealand’s short history.
      
      History is written by the victors, and that won’t be her so expect it to be a litany of brutal judgements.
      
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      August 21, 2021 1:54pm
  - Humble Capitalist
    
    These are her failures but the sheep will see her as the saviour so she will soar in the polls
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:06am
- westernScientest
  
  couldn’t stomach listening longer than the 19 minutes it too for her to get to the point, so I hope your right.
  
  There is a marked increase in comments on stuff and interest.co.nz over the last day or so more to the effect of ‘learn to live with it’ still way below half, but that is to be expected, especially on stuff, where i am surprised the mods even let that kind of blasphemy through.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:35am
  - curry4me
    
    westernScientist: I’d have thrown something solid at the TV after 19 seconds if I had one.
    
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    August 21, 2021 3:00pm
- all true
  
  It is amazing that people didn’t see thru her, she was always very shallow personality and she still the ability to lockdown an entire nation and ruin a country and their people.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:44am
  - Paulus
    
    53% and $105,000,000.
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:01am
  - Humble Capitalist
    
    A lot of shallow sheep out there. More than 50% that take every word in the media as gospel
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:07am
  - Libertysparks
    
    They have their house which inflates 20% in value each year, their new Toyota Ute parked on the driveway next to their boat. They have the latest version of iPhone, the BBQ fired up and a beer in the hand. Life is good. Why bother with what a bunch of socialist politicians are doing to the country? Dont sweat the small stuff!!
    
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    August 21, 2021 12:33pm
- Nookin
  
  Slight correction, MP. It was the 3.17pm show. Sadly, we seem to have a case of the actor thinking she is more important than the show and certainly more important than the viewing audience. She will flounce onto the stage when she is good and ready, thank you.
  I posted yesterday that she had no apparent interest in the fact that most people watching wanted to know whether they were going to earn a buck or two the next day. That was all they wanted to know. The PM, however, having kept everyone waiting, was intent on completing her performance and telling the world what a slick (as in slippery slope) organisation she is running.
  Why was the lockdown for the SI for three days only if not as a cynical sop to keep us onside? They knew when the traveller arrived in NZ, they knew where he had been, they knew the movements of NZers around the country —a quick call to Air NZ should have told them how many travellers had flown from Auckland to Queenstown or to Auckland for the test— and they knew that the incubation period would have endured well beyond the initial 3 day lockdown.
  The government never had any intention of lifting the lockdown after three days. I see the initial differential between Auckland and the rest of the country as a cynical and mean manipulation.
  
  Like Maggie’s Partner, I see that the rest of the country is starting to cotton on.
  
  I wonder what the govt will do if Parliament is suspended for the rest of the week. Maybe someone will spend time clearing the backlog of applications for contestable journalism subsidies (or as Karl duFresne so neatly described it —the Pravda Project). They may just need a few more journoes on side.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:55am
  - Bob
    
    Nookin,
    “Parliament is suspended for the rest of the week….”
    Rest assured that there is going to be a ‘TRIAL’ suspension of Parliament soon, not necessarily next week.
    Depending upon the public reaction to the suspension it will foreshadow propable future ‘suspensions’; leading to ever more suspensions to accustom the sheeple to TOTALATARIAN RULE.
    And it will come to pass that at one of the Sermons from the Podium of TRUTH, will be announced that the 2023 ELECTION is cancelled,
    and the sheeple will rejoice as they await the daily lecture on what activity is allowable today.
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:27am
- The Other Enoch
  
  Yep! I’ve already said it twice this year but I will repeat it again. She won’t see the term out as she will not have the stomach to handle the pressure when the mood changes. It will be brutal when it does.
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:27am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    I agree. One just has to read the Herald with such writers as Stephen Joyce, Richard Prebble and Mike Hoskings plus others who are changing. I can hardly wait for the next Colmar Brunton poll.
    
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    August 21, 2021 1:48pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      You forget the human condition.
      Most adults dont think!!!
      
      And I suspect the sheeple of NZ, will just follow along withe her as she dominates the news.
      
      Aww that nice Pm isnt she lovely will gazump thinking!
      
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      August 21, 2021 4:19pm
- SmokerGuy
  
  Sorry I disagree, people are so blind to her I honestly think their support will go up. They don’t seem to give a crap about any of their failures. We’ve essentially become a cult nation who blindly worships our saviour Jacinta Ardern
  
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  August 21, 2021 11:50am
Tomtoddy

The Privacy Laws are apparently getting in the way of a sensible, practical tracing of potential virus contacts.

Well bugger the Privacy Law. cancel it. Put it on hold. There is too much at stake. Do something useful for a change.
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August 21, 2021 8:12am
- CJames
  
  They won’t do that. Firstly the government needs to make a decision and do something. Second it would force bureaucrats to do something, rather than just “working” from home, admiring their new coffee machine and home made bread.
  Can you see either happening? Me neither.
  
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  August 21, 2021 8:17am
- krazykiwi
  
  Global mortality statistics suggest we’re already overreacting. [Further] suspending personal privacy would be an over-reaction to an over-reaction. I am much more concerned about creeping bio-surveillance that I am Covid-19.
  
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  August 21, 2021 8:18am
  - Sede Vacante
    
    At the most coarse level of analysis, with a global population of 7.9 billion, and roughly 4.5 million covid deaths (generously assuming that the operative death was Covid itself) Covid has only claimed 0.056% of the global population. You’d think it was 100 times that (i.e. 5.6%) if you disregarded this fact and instead went by the MSM’s and Government’s panicked coverage. I cannot get my head around the fact that so many people are losing their shit given these facts. It certainly demonstrates what you can get people to believe with constant propaganda.
    
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    August 21, 2021 8:31am
    - rouppe
      
      Well 0.056% is about the same concentration of CO2 that is supposed to be catastrophic, so maybe that’s why they’re freaked out about it
      /sarc
      
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      August 21, 2021 9:32am
    - DeepBlue
      
      The counter argument will always be: if we didn’t lockdown or it we didn’t vaccinate deaths would be 5.6% (or whatever).
      
      As a basic human response we seem to be hard wired to worry about the worst thing that might happen, until things pass and once again the worse never happened. For many, many people this is the way they live their lives. Not the risk takers or business owners etc. Probably not for the majority of commenters here.
      
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      August 21, 2021 9:47am
      - hullkiwi
        
        Did the world end because of the millennium bug in 2000. No. Yet, $billions was spent worldwide preparing for global catastrophe, that never came to pass.
        
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        August 21, 2021 11:20pm
    - Humble Capitalist
      
      Hong Kong flu killed a few million back in 1968/69 as well from a lower world population. I dont remember Mum and Dad telling us about the lockdowns of the late 60’s
      
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      August 21, 2021 9:52am
      - kowtow
        
        These ‘flu outbreaks happen since at least the late 1800’s every 20 – 30 years.
        
        In a newly globalised world , we get a globalised OTT response .
        
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        August 21, 2021 10:26am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Back when we could name the flu for the place it emerged from
        
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        August 21, 2021 12:18pm
  - Sede Vacante
    
    Further, on the bio-surveillance point, vaccine status will be the initial criterion, but once the infrastructure is firmly in place and ubiquitous, other criteria can and will be substituted as and when necessary. If they haven’t already, people need to wake up now and strongly reject out of hand what will be de facto mandatory passes to access society via checkpoints at every entrance. Once we are in the grip of the State and large corporations (by whatever means and pretexts they use to ensnare us), that is the end of our rights, our liberty and our freedom.
    
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    August 21, 2021 8:37am
    - Nickc2
      
      If you carry a Mobile Phone, you have forgone a large amount of your privacy.
      Big Brother can and does (crime investigation) track and monitor communications by persons of interest. Having your Bluetooth turned on can enhance the probability of Big Brother accessing your contacts list as well I’m informed.
      
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      August 21, 2021 9:20am
      - Sede Vacante
        
        Yes, but that’s a few steps back from having access to large parts of society affirmed or denied based on compliance or non-compliance with an arbitrary government edict as to the requisite access criteria of the day. I’m not forced to carry a mobile.
        
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        August 21, 2021 10:13am
  - Tomtoddy
    
    Read the story and you will see the idiocy involved. I agree that the whole deal is an overreaction but the point is we have Covid, we are not prepared because of Govt bungling and now we are trying to halt the spread. Disagree wbout the wider process but see the nonsense of not giving out vital information because of the Privacy law.
    
    There is still a small chance we can get on top of this incursion and live to change direction and take a more mature approach to handling the virus but right now we need to try and stop the spread. People actually die from this virus.
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300387951/absolute-shambles-auckland-contact-tracing-staff-missed-four-cases-tried-to-suppress-info
    
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    August 21, 2021 8:43am
    - westernScientest
      
      I really dont see how our privacy laws could
      1) stop a person who has been told they are infected going to the media and telling them their personal story, as long as they left other individuals names out of it or sort their permission.
      2) Provide the contact tracing department the ability to no disclose the location of interest, a persons name sure, but not the location.
      
      This just sounds like self important, and frankly panicking contact tracing staff doing a poor job. Nothing to do with privacy laws just self importance.
      
      Also since when does anyone on here belive anything on stuff?
      
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      August 21, 2021 8:50am
    - Simon
      
      Giving up some freedom for a little bit of safety never works.
      
      The midwit Cindy said she would secure the borders and her dumb luck ran out. Any energy should be directed towards the midwit’s failures to roll out the vaxx to the vulnerable and to secure the borders.
      
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      August 21, 2021 8:58am
      - tf78
        
        I reckon had they done random testing 3 months ago we would have the same results as we have now. It must have been floating around the whole time, but unless you test you’re oblivious (and happy).
        
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        August 21, 2021 10:51am
    - krazykiwi
      
      An astonishingly small number of people die from Covid-19. By contrast everyone who doesn’t (>99.96% of under 70s) instead develops lasting mucosal immunity against Covid-19.
      
      Contact tracing can only inform state mandated self isolations orders, or lockdowns. The UK’s experience with the former was known as a ‘Pingdemic’ and it was quite destructive. So I guess the question is “What is the desired outcome from contact tracing?”
      
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      August 21, 2021 9:00am
      - Unity
        
        Also, I would like to know how many of our latest cases are actually sick or do they just have a ‘sniffle’? We never get flu stats any more. Do those with the flu get lumped in with Covid cases? Also it is the pollen season at the moment so there are more people about with the sniffles. Is this taken into account?
        
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        August 21, 2021 9:24am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “lasting mucosal immunity”.. Are you absolutely sure about that? If that’s the case people who have been infected should be demonstrating 100 percent protection.
        
        But it is the opposite. The vaccines offer much better protection than natural immunity.
        
        https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://abc7news.com/covid-immunity-coronavirus-vaccines-cdc-study-unvaccinated-people-who-had-twice-as-likely-to-get-reinfected/10936598/&ved=2ahUKEwiMzvD4xsDyAhUXQ80KHX2sAdEQFnoECCgQBQ&usg=AOvVaw3MM-GzAmGBCDuY_c1IcCtf
        
        What will the evidence show in 6 months? Don’t know. But please don’t buy into this crap about “let’s all get covid and we will all have lifetime immunity”.
        
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        August 21, 2021 9:38am
      - Humble Capitalist
        
        I wonder if COVID survivor Novak Djokovic will complete the calendar year grand slam which is the highest achievement in world tennis, not achieved since 1969
        
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        August 21, 2021 9:47am
      - krazykiwi
        
        I used the word ‘lasting’ and you said ‘not lifetime’. We can both be right!
        
        Re 6 months, in July, data from both Israel and the UK already showed that protection against infection and transmission dropped below 20% after half a year.
        
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        August 21, 2021 10:07am
      - Sede Vacante
        
        Humble
        Moreover, let’s not forget that Covid survivor Donald Trump led an attempted insurrection* against the Sacred Democracy of the United States** shortly after recovering from Covid.
        
        *this claim is disputed by trusted right-wing fact-checkers
        
        **this descriptor is also disputed (please see note * above)
        
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        August 21, 2021 10:19am
      - krazykiwi
        
        Unity, this is hard to pin down. Most of the research I’ve read has been based on the alpha/wild virus, while using what we know know as unreliable RT-PCR testing to ‘confirm’ if an infection is present. What is probably needed instead are studies that rely on antibody or blood testing to confirm infection. Still looking for those. Also, variants are likely to have different symptomatic vs asymptomatic ratios. It’s look like Delta has a higher proportion of symptomatic that does alpha/wild.
        
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        August 21, 2021 10:27am
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      “There is still a small chance we can get on top of this incursion.”
      If this does happen, then this won’t.
      ” and live to change direction….”
      
      The PM has shown time and time again that she will follow the same formula until it fails her, so if this lock down does work she will, in her mind anyway, have no reason to change her direction.
      
      The fact that the fear driving behavior (and anger) this time is induced by the exposure their vaccine rollout failure created as against previous fear induced by lack of any developed vaccine will go straight over her head.
      
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      August 21, 2021 11:15am
    - GTRandRB
      
      I would prefer a multi-pronged approach where they also offer/support prophylaxis drugs (ivermectin, vitamin D, etc) to aid in prevention, and early stages of our fight against SARS-CoV2. Putting all our eggs in one basket (the vaccine) is foolish. It is here to stay – lets be smart about how we live with it.
      
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      August 21, 2021 3:42pm
  - covfefe
    
    Well stated Krazy – what I cannot believe is how compliant people are with this sloughing towards totalitarianism. At the hospital where I work it is quite horrifying.
    
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    August 21, 2021 10:56am
- Scott
  
  I too am concerned about the overreaction to a virus. On Tuesday we were living a normal life apart from at the border. Then on Tuesday afternoon the Prime Minister holds a press conference and tells everyone in the whole country that they are under virtual house arrest. And we go along with that??
  
  Governments remember what they can do and what they can get away with. They will remember that if they frighten people enough they will get compliance. They can take away all of your personal freedom, your freedom of association, your right to work, your right to practice your religion with other believers, your right just to go for a walk and drop into a café and have a coffee.
  
  How long are we prepared to put up with this??
  
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  August 21, 2021 8:30am
  - Sede Vacante
    
    “One trick pony” is an apt description of Ardern, on several levels. You can sense that this is no longer March 2020, and she has lost a large amount of political capital. This is literally all she has, and people are getting sick of it. While I make it clear that I think this is all a largely manufactured crisis aimed at undisclosed ends, for the people who think it is a real threat, they will see that it is Ardern and Ardern alone who has let one slip past the goal keeper here. The buck surely has to stop with her at sometime, and she has caused many billions worth of damage, on this occasion current occasion alone.
    
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    August 21, 2021 9:01am
    - Harriet
      
      Last time during lockdown they rammed abortion laws trough parliament – what now – hate speech? maori health system?
      
      The media got bought off and both National and ACT are treated with almost distain by them, yet they both hardly say a word about it; they are both more concerned with compliance than science!
      
      Mike King could be the man of the moment and turn the tide against Cindy given all the depression, worry, domestic violence and suicide that is raising it’s head this time round.
      
      Undies Rubbish Monday on every street – fine that coppers! 😎
      
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      August 21, 2021 11:12am
      - GTRandRB
        
        I believe Mike King has been bought recently with that begrudging grant … he will be surely muted at least, silent at best.
        
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        August 21, 2021 9:38pm
  - John Pakes
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Because, in a democracy, we have Government by the majority, for the majority. So it is compelled to follow the needs of the majority, which will inevitably impinge on the wishes of some.
    You seem to have the notion that you should be able to do what you like when you like with no concern at all for those around you.
    The only place you could ever achieve that liberty would be to live on an island, far far away, and all by yourself.
    
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    August 21, 2021 9:05am
    - westernScientest
      
      tyranny of the majority is not ok
      
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      August 21, 2021 9:06am
      - Harriet
        
        What fucken majority — over 90% didn’t vote for NZ First.
        Over 80% didn’t vote for the Greens.
        And over 60% didn’t vote for Labour.
        
        Winston Peter’s is a majority in his mind. 😎
        
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        August 21, 2021 11:28am
    - Monique Watson
      
      Or live in the U.S.
      
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      August 21, 2021 9:07am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      explaining why they push ideas that majority don’t want? Forcing Maori into everything, bike bridges etc… Labour have been captured by fringing zealots intent on remaking the world to suit the preferences of a small fraction of the population.
      
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      August 21, 2021 9:12am
      - kowtow
        
        If I might be so bold , they have not been captured by a fringe zealots .
        
        They are the fringe , but they are being given cover by a Far Left Media pardy which refuses to hold them to account.
        
        Note the almost daily attacks on the Nats by contrast.
        
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        August 21, 2021 11:12am
    - MrTips
      
      You have just described in your last two paras the attitude PM Ardern is displaying right now, and she’s going to flaunt it using Standing Order 55 and a whipped Ashley Bloomfield.
      
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      August 21, 2021 9:15am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Human rights are innate. They are not accorded on a 50% majority.
      
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      August 21, 2021 9:27am
      - Sede Vacante
        
        Democracy sounds good on paper, but in reality, people like John exist and so they get a vote. What happens when the majority are demonstrably wrong? You can get very bad outcomes. That the majority agrees on proposition x bears not relationship to the validity of proposition x.
        
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        August 21, 2021 9:38am
      - Jack5
        
        That’s why the locking up of Covid-19 protesters in Christchurch is disturbing.
        
        I’ve been vaccinated, and don’t agree with them, but what the hell has happened in New Zealand when they are locked up and the police oppose bail.
        
        This while people on some heavy violence charges get home detention.
        
        We have the police chief, Coster, defending the police’s hard action on protesters. This while gangs spiral out of control in the country and some people put up illegal road blocks.
        
        It’s not as though Coster is hard-line on crime. Why is the soft-on-gangs Coster making personal announcements on the crackdown on protesters. My guess the reason is parallel to his TV support role for Jacindarella.
        
        An earlier report noted that one of the three Covid protesters arrested in Christchurch was Kyle Chapman, a former leader of a numerically tiny Far Right group.
        
        He’s in jail as you read this, held without bail for protesting about the Government Covid strategy.
        
        https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/08/coronavirus-police-oppose-bail-for-covid-19-protesters-over-fears-they-will-flout-lockdown-again.html
        
        AND:
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/126131440/covid19-former-farright-leader-to-spend-weekend-behind-bars-after-alleged-lockdown-breach
        
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        August 21, 2021 9:41am
      - thirteenstars
        
        “That’s why the locking up of Covid-19 protesters in Christchurch is disturbing.”
        
        Hard to believe we have a Bill of Rights that specifically protects such protests, isn’t it?
        
        I hope these guys are members of the Free Speech Union who may be one of the few organisations able to fight their case effectively.
        
        But this is how it happens, folks. You wake up one day and your rights to protest, organise protest, and simply say what is unpopular is taken away by threats and arrests.
        
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        August 21, 2021 10:25am
    - thirteenstars
      
      “You seem to have the notion that you should be able to do what you like when you like with no concern at all for those around you.”
      
      And you seem to have the notion that the majority should be able to do what it likes with no concern for the rights of the minority.
      
      The notion that once a government is elected it may trample upon the minority because “it is compelled to follow the needs of the majority” is the same as saying individual rights don’t exist, that rights are mere legal privileges and may be revoked at any time.
      
      What an incredibly shallow, uninformed and downright dangerous view of the relationship between the state and the individual.
      
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      August 21, 2021 9:59am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      No government is there to govern for everyone.
      
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      August 21, 2021 10:00am
      - Tall Man
        
        You could not be more wrong.
        
        Of course they are there to govern for all, they just may not have the support from all.
        
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        August 21, 2021 11:14am
      - The Housekeeper
        
        Benedict, did you have a Molly for brekkie? You’re not making much sense today.
        
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        August 21, 2021 1:27pm
      - GTRandRB
        
        …from a normal “upticker” of your comments, today you are acting (commenting) rather strangely; wtf BU?
        
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        August 21, 2021 9:42pm
    - Durden
      
      I call bullshit on government by majority. We have long ago accepted and handed ourselves tyranny of minorities. Fooled into this position by the UN gradual creation and imposition of mandates, declarations, universal rights etc and grabbing power by presenting themselves as representing minorities.
      
      2017 Elections. MMP allowed Wynston to over-ride majority
      Indigenous rights trump majority rights – He Puapua
      LGBT@#$% rights trump majority rights — You will call me Xe, and will let me come into your toilets or Olympic event
      Religious and intersectional minority demands not to be offended and for special rights trump majority demands for free speech and one rule for all.
      Prisoners’ rights trump victims’ rights
      
      and so on and so on.
      
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      August 21, 2021 10:29am
      - Nickc2
        
        True on all counts!
        
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        August 21, 2021 10:32am
    - Tall Man
      
      Please list the policies that ardern campaigned on in 2020 that the “majority” voted for……..
      
      From memory it was …… covid …. covid ….. covid.
      
      Therefore she has failed, lied, misrepresented whatever you choose to insert therefore I would very much doubt she has support of the majority.
      
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      August 21, 2021 11:13am
    - wilderbeast
      
      Why then are they pushing He Puapua?
      
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      August 21, 2021 12:04pm
      - curry4me
        
        wilderbeast: They’ve been captured by the Maori caucus. They don’t want to say no. That means they’d have to rely on ‘Green’ support. Plus the usual guilt tripping.
        
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        August 21, 2021 3:12pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      The Government’s majority does not give it the right to do anything it wants. Anything constitutional requires more widespread support, which is why adoption of He Puapua is just wrong.
      
      It’s also important to note that Governments can only claim to have the support of a majority for implementing particular policies when they openly campaigned for these policies prior to the previous election.
      
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      August 21, 2021 12:24pm
  - kowtow
    
    Not to worry , even during this “crisis” they’re still going full tilt at the so called climate emergency and they’re already restricting our freedoms and extending taxes in that regard . Much more to come.
    
    And as with the Wuflu crisis , the Media Pardy are the ones making the fear factor the vector for govt over reach.
    
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    August 21, 2021 9:05am
    - oldfella
      
      kowtow, I guess under level 4, there’ll be none of those terrible conversion-therapists out on the streets kidnapping innocent gays and trying to frighten them into going straight. /s
      
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      August 21, 2021 10:21am
  - Jimbob
    
    I hate it, are we going tp do this forever? It’s like flogging a dead horse, it is not going to last. Many countries have done the right thing, vaccinated everyone that’s wants it and opened up the borders.
    That’s the end game, get on with it.
    
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    August 21, 2021 9:08am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Frogs in a Pot.
    Links below ⤵️ ?
    
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    August 21, 2021 9:18am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    How long are we prepared to put up with this??
    
    If this little outbreak is successfully curbed within the next few weeks, then we will probably put up with another 2 or 3 similar lockdowns…especially if there is a decent interval between each lockdown.
    
    If this outbreak gets away from the authorities and infections spread around the country, then I suspect folks will fall into 2 camps… those who want a strong lockdown for as long as possible and those who want to live sensibly with the virus.
    
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    August 21, 2021 9:34am
    - westernScientest
      
      so do I, what side do you think the army will fall on…..? Ultimately that is who will end up being tasked with enforcing it.
      
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      August 21, 2021 9:38am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      To be honest, I hope they don’t get it back. I think they will but it is only a matter of time before we have another outbreak. Once everyone who wants a vaccine has had one it should be back to open borders. Indeed the Australian government said as much yesterday. Is the rest of Australia going to maintain hard borders with nsw forever? Tasmania may hold out but that’s it.
      
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      August 21, 2021 10:03am
    - Humble Capitalist
      
      Yes divided into 2 camps a) those that can lie in bed all day every day and not be impacted in anyway, bureaucrats etc b) people that will no longer be able to meet the rising costs of electricty, rates, food, insurances, rents and mortgage repayments
      
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      August 21, 2021 11:28am
  - tf78
    
    I think it’s going to turn out to be a case of “The boy who cried wolf”. Too many lies now to believe anything they say.
    
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    August 21, 2021 10:55am
  - covfefe
    
    At school we learnt about how odd it was those ordinary nice Germans went along with all that Jew killing – after this, I am thinking not really odd at all. People are so dumb…!
    
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    August 21, 2021 10:57am
    - miltonF
      
      Not dumb but absolute cowards. Controlled by their fear they have no free will. The media and PM have convinced the ignorant masses that being a coward is virtuous.
      
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      August 21, 2021 12:11pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Yep, the Govt is going to place an advertisement for Sextons on Monday if anyone is at work.
      
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      August 21, 2021 12:22pm
- R
  
  It isn’t privacy laws. Someone who knows nothing about privacy is simply demonstrating their ignorance. I would expect John Edwards, the Privacy Commissioner to say something about that.
  
  Imagine being told that you have to take a test (your partner has tested positive) but you’re not allowed to be told that your partner has Covid to protect their privacy. That is the sort of idiocy I’d expect from the Health Ministry. Sure there will be times when there is no need to be given private info but other times it will be necessary.
  
  Having sex with someone who has HIV is exactly the sort of scenario where the person with HIV has to be open and honest (when not using a condom). Privacy is a red herring.
  
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  August 21, 2021 8:36am
  - R
    
    And when I said someone was ignorant about privacy laws, I was referring to officials discussed in this article.
    
    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300387951/absolute-shambles-auckland-contact-tracing-staff-missed-four-cases-tried-to-suppress-info
    
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    August 21, 2021 8:42am
    - maggiemay
      
      Sums up my experience as well. Asked to not tell anyone. When queried they said I could tell my family. I thought it was a hoax because the person was very unprofessional. I actually don’t blame her. We should have trained people for this. We could have paid them with some of the COVID response money that was available.
      Next I question why they have left kitting out vaccinators with the correct masks until after we have a breakout. Shambles there too.
      
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      August 21, 2021 10:03am
      - maggiemay
        
        And here is an example of the vaccinators not being ready. All the vaccinators should have had their Protective gear fitted ages ago.
        My understanding is that even trained nurses have to go through further hoops to be a vacinator? If so why? From what I have heard this course covers all the vaccines for childhood etc so is quite involved. Is that necessary when there is an urgency to get the vaccines out but staff are now focused on testing.
        Even with all that there was time to get this all in place but it seems that hasn’t happened.
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300388104/covid19-nz-elderly-rotorua-couple-turned-away-from-vaccination-while-dhb-gives-ppe-training
        
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        August 21, 2021 11:18am
    - septic skeptic
      
      Sounds like it’s as more about protecting the copyright for the Ash and Cinders show than it is about public health.
      
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      August 21, 2021 11:57am
- Maxx
  
  I know a few people in this space and a number of solutions have been floated that , in conjunction with the current scanning solution, solve a lot of the issues of those who choose not to scan and for those that forget to at times, while working within existing laws.
  
  Very idea has been shot down as fast as it is proposed. Why? We already have a solution – people need scan. And that’s why there are so many issues in the public service. They see the world as “if people follow xyz all will work”. They are hell bent on changing behavior whereas anyone who has been successful in the private sector will tell you, changing behaviors is the hardest thing you can get a consumer to do, and instead you work to their established behaviors.
  
  Tldr; public think they’re gods and all will be fine as soon as we do what they say.
  
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  August 21, 2021 8:40am
  - westernScientest
    
    Of course comrade, the peasants do not know what is best for them and must be beaten into kindness.
    
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    August 21, 2021 9:00am
- westernScientest
  
  Thats just what they are blaming it on, its standard incompatible and self importance, cindy NEEDZ her stand up be kind time, and everyone needs to hang on her every word. The solution is not to give these creatures more power, they will only abuse it more and make the situation worse.
  No need to get rid of the privacy laws, its just throwing away more rights for a little bit of Feelz.
  
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  August 21, 2021 8:43am
amospicton

I noticed yesterday that the PM sanitised her hands before entering the Beehive theatrette and again, 5 seconds later, on reaching the podium. There are two possible conclusions: 1. virtue signalling (entirely possible) or 2. she’s genuinely petrified by the “deadly delta”. If the latter it explains the determination to adhere to elimination as a strategy.
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August 21, 2021 8:13am
- Simon
  
  Option 3 is that Cindy is a midwit.
  
  Very average intelligence but good at political slogans and a very complaint MSM. Good at handing out vast sums of money to squeaky wheels in the community.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:07am
  - covfefe
    
    IQ higher than Lady Di’s but far south of John Key, Helen Clark, etc.
    
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    August 21, 2021 10:59am
- Sede Vacante
  
  It’s all carefully choreographed, from the advertising/messaging hoardings she stands in front of, to the mask she wears to the podium (didn’t she get publicly vaxxed?), to the delayed entrance to build-up the tension and the expectation of bad news, etc. In essence, the setting is designed so that a picture is rendered and communicated, and therefore the observer doesn’t even need to listen to the words, which are entirely secondary – the message is visual, not verbal. Like a print news article, the idea is to get the entire message into the photo and the headline.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:11am
- kowtow
  
  It’s all theatre , literally played out in a theatre.
  
  And it’s eagerly consumed by her fearful and stupid fan club.
  
  Behind the scenes there is an army of spinners . That’s the real story and our Media Pardy refuse to tell it.
  
  On that subject our Media Pardy are making a big deal of Charlotte Bellis in Kabul. The back story to how she can be there would be more inneresting than the fact she was allowed to ask a question at a press conference ( all designed to make the Taliban look acceptable to again ,a gullible audience)
  
  All the world’s a stage.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:15am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Show pony
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:16am
- artemisia
  
  Looked like Ms Ardern only sanitised one hand on her way in, as the other hand held papers.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:21am
- Matt Long
  
  Or she has OCD which wouldn’t surprise me.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:53am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Probably the first.
  
  She is not terrified of covid. It deflects all criticisms of her failures. Hence her determination to run the elimination strategy to the next election. We will be the only covid free nation.
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:06am
- Ruawai
  
  Jacinda might have OCD.
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:24am
- Bob
  
  Option 4…
  and the most likely one…
  Adern has no comprehension of what she is being told by so called experts, all three of them.. nor does she understand what COVID is and its economic threat to the NZ economy; and there is no body in here government who can help her.
  Hence we get a word salad of cliches from the podium.
  
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  August 21, 2021 11:38am
krazykiwi

Some relevant, new data in here: Covid Vaccines: A Shot in the Dark?

In contrast, Israeli data confirms that a previous infection continues to offer a high level of protection against renewed infection (about 90%, see chart below), possibly due to broad mucosal and T-cell immunity. Hence the rate of immunity achieved in a country by natural infections, but not by vaccinations, may be a key metric to monitor.

By June 2021, this value was just 9% in Israel, about 10% to 30% in Western European countries, about 10% to 50% in US states, over 50% in India, parts of Eastern Europe and some Latin American countries, but very low in countries that successfully introduced early border controls, such as Norway, Finland, Iceland, Australia and New Zealand (see our updated seroprevalence overview).

There’s also a bit about the Russian vaccine

Regarding the Russian Sputnik vaccine, it increasingly looks like the manufacturer may have faked official vaccine efficacy data published in the Lancet; in fact, it looks like the manufacturer may even have planned beforehand to fake the efficacy data.

@Benedict, Figure ‘C’ is relevant, and certainly helps highlight the vaccine effectiveness at preventing serious disease.
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August 21, 2021 8:14am
- Opie
  
  Krazy – so based on that and to convert to layman’s terms, we are saying that the vaccine helps short term, but weakens over time and that the continued use of such vaccine may cause other issues with the virus changing to beat it.
  
  But also, that the vaccine does reduce the chance of bad disease and death as per graph C.
  
  Natural antibodies from getting the disease are more effective long term than the vaccine. Given the low levels of severe disease (based on the Israel data graph C) for under 50s, I cant see any reason to rush out and get it.
  
  Nice to see some data around this.
  
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  August 21, 2021 8:37am
  - kowtow
    
    Science , not wot we’re doing here which is pure emotion.
    
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    August 21, 2021 9:18am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    To summarise my view. The efficacy of the vaccines against infection is still unknown. How it interacts with natural immunity is not well understood.
    
    Am I pleased the vaccines are available? Yes because they will dramatically reduce harm and death in the elderly and vulnerable. And that is a major achievement.
    
    Covid will become endemic. Elimination strategy is ruinous.
    
    Maybe we will get a second generation of much better vaccines. Maybe not.
    
    Jacinda has politicised the pandemic. The glacial pace of vaccine roll out is a mix of incompetence and willful neglect.
    
    While all this plays out I will be vaccinated, follow the evidence as best I can and hope I can see my family some time next year.
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:02am
- artemisia
  
  Claire Trevett in the Herald today (paywalled) – “we are a naked little baby in a blizzard”.
  
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  August 21, 2021 8:49am
- Simon
  
  Its doesnt matter if faked or not. For eg. National are screaming for boosters. Which have not passed any trials. The first month booster trial data has only just been given to the FDA
  
  National crying about boosters puts political pressure on the guberment but more importantly Medsafe to give approval – provisional , on a potentially unsafe medical experiment.
  
  This is how it works.
  
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  August 21, 2021 8:51am
  - Nickc2
    
    Remind me again where we were in the queue for the original vaccine!
    
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    August 21, 2021 9:30am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  The Russians faked the efficacy data. They wouldn’t do that. Would they?
  
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  August 21, 2021 12:29pm
Suze Wainwright

Gotta love Ardern’s subtle change in messaging strategy this time around. Lockdown lengths are now down to Dr Bloomfield’s directions and not her. The focus group feedback must be saying something.

I wonder if she’ll be endorsing citizens calling their budgies Jacinda & Ashley anymore…
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August 21, 2021 8:19am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Not quite Suze. Bloomfield makes a recommendation to the PM and Cabinet, but it is up to Cabinet to accept them.
  
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  August 21, 2021 8:56am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Ardern is still deflecting, making sure nothing can be just her fault. Cunning as a shithouse rat
    
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    August 21, 2021 9:21am
    - artemisia
      
      Ms Ardern is being well protected by a large team because she is still the only reason Labour is in charge. The gloss quotient is trending though ….
      
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      August 21, 2021 9:28am
    - Nickc2
      
      I think her advisers/minders are the shithouse rats. She is not that smart.
      
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      August 21, 2021 9:34am
    - oc35
      
      Starting to smell like it.
      
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      August 21, 2021 8:17pm
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Absolutely Tony, but last time Cindy had the aura (in the public’s eye anyway…)
    
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    August 21, 2021 10:02am
  - Durden
    
    And apparently the SLG being “prime ministerial” did not accept Bloomer’s advice yesterday to extend Auckland to end of August. A fact that was conveniently fed/leaked to the press.
    
    The PM wants to be seen as being a great leader and making finely nuanced judgements. People and businesses in Auckland just want advance notice and certainty. So the leak sends the real signal.
    
    Pure drama and theatre.
    
    The only way to puncture this is hard questioning in media. Alas! No one asks questions like:
    
    Why is it that we still have not found the missing link between Sydney returnee in MIQ->JetPark->Middlemore case and Case A the tradie. If you can’t say so and accept MIQ systems are crap.
    
    If you are so sure that the above case was the original leak, why are you still showing places of interest back going back to early August ?
    
    Why does the PM still think elimination is possible. Given that fully vaccinated people are getting infected (girlfriend of tradie’s employee) and passing on infection ?
    
    When did the PM know of Mitre10 and Bayley’s events being of interest? Is she drip feeding information to project a slow growth of cases rather than what it is likely to be?
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:11am
- krazykiwi
  
  Bloomfield needs to be as cunning as Ardern, eg “I have asked the PM to re-affirm our continuing strategy to eradicate Covid-19. She has confirmed this, leaving me no choice but to recommend continuing level 4 lockdowns until Christmas”
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:53am
- Sede Vacante
  
  Since nobody elected Bloomfield, and he is therefore not accountable to anyone, he should be limited to providing advice. He shouldn’t be acting as a political prophylactic for Jacinda.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:53am
  - MCos
    
    Bloomfield is accountable to the Minister of Health.
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:24am
    - Sede Vacante
      
      Phew, that’s reassuring.
      
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      August 21, 2021 1:45pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    As DG of Health he has various statutory powers, which he can and should exercise as he sees fit. But, he should also be careful to limit himself to these matters. Which he may well be doing, I couldn’t say.
    
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    August 21, 2021 12:31pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      You would hope by now he has read up on his statutory powers and not commit any further unlawful acts.
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-lockdown-unlawful-for-first-nine-days-high-court-finds-but-says-action-was-justified/AI2WQ3PZ5QYEWUYGSTS3MNKE6Q/
      
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      August 21, 2021 4:17pm
- DeepBlue
  
  Kind of, Jacinda was trying to do that, but she got caught out in question time, she ignored DGs advice for a lockdown to 31 August. So it is back on her as a political decision.
  
  I believe Jacinda is banking on a 14 day window of hard and early complete compliance. She knows that politically any mention of 3 or 4 or 5 weeks of Level 4 lockdown will lose her support and Covid will become endemic. She has put everything she has into the next 2 weeks, which includes massaging the advice from GD.
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:14am
- Bob
  
  Very low polling performance in the recent polls of the last few months. Even dimwit Labour can see the steep downward trend.
  
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  August 21, 2021 11:41am
Critical Thinker

On the Systematic Demolition of Trust

This manufactured health crisis of a vastly overblown ‘pandemic’ has produced many very real crises, including an actual health crisis of almost everything other than illness related to this virus. However, perhaps the biggest of all is the crisis of trust we now face.

Trust is the glue which holds free democracies together. This trust has been eroded in every conceivable area of society. We can no longer trust institutions. The media, universities, schools, international advisory bodies. Unions. Regulators. We can no longer trust our own governments.

We can no longer trust the legal system. We can no longer trust health services to care for us appropriately and without discrimination or negligence. We can no longer trust the pharmaceutical industry. The very discipline of science itself now appears as corrupt as politics.

We can no longer trust the police force. We can no longer trust international law. We can no longer trust statisticians. We can no longer trust models. We can no longer trust data. We can no longer trust polls. Everything smells like bovine feces. And proves over and over again ad nauseum to be just that…

… But worst of all is the way in which we have been conditioned not to trust each other. Our fellow citizens. We’ve been made to view other people with suspicion & fear. Everybody else is a potential threat to our existence. We are actually encouraged to snitch on our neighbours. Anybody could be a walking fountain of deadly virus. Gestures of trust have been erased. The smile, the handshake, the embrace. It is clear now how fragile this trust has always been and how swiftly it can be snatched away.

– How can humanity function without trust?
– What will it take to restore our faith in all these things?
– Is it even possible?

I hope these questions trouble others as much as they trouble me. And that perhaps there are people out there with some answers. Because at the moment, I have none ?
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August 21, 2021 8:26am
- Critical Thinker
  
  Conspiracy theories aside, there is something fishy about the Great Reset
  
  The magic words are ‘stakeholder capitalism’, a concept that WEF chairman Klaus Schwab has been hammering for decades and which occupies pride of place in the WEF’s Great Reset plan. The idea of stakeholder capitalism and multi-stakeholder partnerships might sound warm and fuzzy, until we dig deeper and realise that this actually means giving corporations more power over society, and democratic institutions less.
  
  In the WEF’s vision, “the government voice would be one among many, without always being the final arbiter.” Governments would be just one stakeholder in a multi-stakeholder model of global governance.
  
  Who are these other, non-governmental stakeholders?
  
  WEF partners include some of the biggest companies in oil (Saudi Aramco, Shell, Chevron, BP), food (Unilever, The Coca-Cola Company, Nestlé), technology (Facebook, Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Apple) and pharmaceuticals (AstraZeneca, Pfizer, Moderna).
  
  Instead of corporations serving many stakeholders, in the multi-stakeholder model of global governance, corporations are promoted to being official stakeholders in global decision-making, while governments are relegated to being one of many stakeholders. In practice, corporations become the main stakeholders, while governments take a backseat role, and civil society is mainly window dressing.
  
  The multi-stakeholder model is already being built. These groups, which lack any democratic accountability, consist of private stakeholders (big corporations) who “recruit their friends in government, civil society and universities to join them in solving public problems”. And they have real-world implications for the way our food systems are organized, how big tech is governed and how our vaccines and medicines are distributed.
  
  https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/conspiracy-theories-aside-there-something-fishy-about-great-reset/
  
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  August 21, 2021 8:56am
- westernScientest
  
  If you are interested in how society lives without trust, have a bit of a listen to what this young lady has to say on North Korea. He mother telling her as a young child not to utter a bad word because even the mice are listeners for the supreme leader is a bit of an indication.
  
  https://open.spotify.com/episode/0G5o6GYjWgbSvKG3W2W2xO
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:05am
- John Pakes
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  By golly, you are living in fear!! You are indeed troubled.
  In answer to your question, no I am not troubled.
  Because the collapse in trust re our democracy and the pillars that make it function has not been eroded at all as your doom-saying post would suggest.
  Look around you, try to se the world as it really is, have another cocoa or valium and carry on.
  I will not snitch on you!
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:14am
  - westernScientest
    
    trust me comrade, I am but a humble useful idiot
    
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    August 21, 2021 9:43am
  - All_on_Red
    
    ‘I will not snitch on you!’
    Yeah, nah. You’ve got form for snitching.
    This is you, right?
    ‘released were emails pertaining to another alleged code of conduct breach by Macpherson regarding a post on the RDRR Facebook page about a Whakarewarewa Forest shuttles tender process.
    Four complaints had been received about the post, from Takurua Mutu, John Pakes, Alamoti Te Pou and the most substantive, from deputy mayor Dave Donaldson on December 16.’
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-democracy-reporting/119212337/rotorua-councillor-reynold-macpherson-labelled-racist-mayor-chadwick-bully-boy-tactics-alleged
    
    Say, you’re not one of those guys who seeks to find things they can complain about so they can get some name recognition going to help their Local Body Political careers are you?
    Interesting you’re on KB now…
    
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    August 21, 2021 10:30am
  - Chris R
    
    Seriously: How have you measured “the collapse in trust re our democracy?” I suggest, based on anecdotal conversations, that NZ’ers (and Australians too) are increasingly mistrustful of the powers that be. I posit that the flickering conduct of the Ardern clown has heightened mistrust to a level where it won’t abate until she is vanquished. She is not simply a bumbler but a lying tyrant too. THAT is the world “as it really is!” Snitch away if you must.
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:15am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Shorter John Pakes:
    
    “I would not inform on you to the STASI…..unless I had to…….or really wanted to…….and then it would be reluctantly “
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:55am
- Nickc2
  
  Is this deliberate? Yes, I believe it is and it’s all part of a Divide and Conquer methodology.
  The UN’s One World Govt and World without borders would appear to be the current prime movers.
  
  To me, there are many enablers to these prime movers which impact us all on a daily basis. I could list them but most KBers are smart enough to know what they are.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:51am
- KevO'Brien
  
  How can we trust the PCR tests?
  Who processes these?
  Are they done in the same lab throughout NZ?
  Are there reference standards?
  Are they enforced?
  Who are the enforcers?
  Does the replication exceed 25 cycles?
  What are the full details of the methods being used?
  
  After the disastrous “vaccine” allowing the spike protein to go where in the body we need both lawful protection and assurance going forward.
  
  The “vaccine” suppliers have smartly contracted out of any responsibility and liability. They tell us the did no know their dna modifier would not stay at the injection site. They had a duty to know. Their lack of knowledge is carelessness so great it must be equivalent to fraud. Who can sue with the arrangements our amateur govt have accepted?
  
  Is the testing any better, what assurances do we have about that? The WHO have deprecated the previous rounds above 25 cycles and generally rejected the whole process as giving highly doubtful results.
  
  Are our tests of suitable grade to make major life changing decisions on at the political level by our amateur controllers?
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:01am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    It seems like the Auckland nurses are not very trusting either.
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:55am
  - GTRandRB
    
    Unsure about the down ticks – a well informed reader would agree with the body of what you write. (Hint to them: look into the Pfizer vs. Govt purchase agreements and culpability/liability stance)
    
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    August 21, 2021 9:53pm
- Humble Capitalist
  
  And if you have a view that isnt the same as the pack of sheep you may well be cancelled at the drop of a hat
  
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  August 21, 2021 11:38am
Kiwi_in_Paris

What a pity New Zealand and Australia could not also adopt this Danish approach to Covid:

https://twitter.com/JacquiDeevoy1/status/1428519372218408961

https://www.themayor.eu/en/a/view/denmark-plans-to-lift-all-anti-epidemic-measures-by-september-8132

New Zealand needs more lockdowns and booster shots for everyone, apparently.
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August 21, 2021 8:26am
- Albert_Ross
  
  The Danish approach being, to first get everybody vaccinated and thus reduce the risk of infection and serious illness/death, and then lift restrictions. Seems OK to me, but not what other KBers seem to be advocating
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:37am
G152

But we should wear our masks.
Knowing the size of a virus and the weave of a mask is it so they wont identify the corpse ?????
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August 21, 2021 8:26am
- SGA
  
  From what I have read, I’m agnostic on the overall effectiveness of masks, but just to clear up misunderstandings. Yes viruses are extremely tiny, but, as I understand it, they travel in larger (relative to them) droplets for the most part. Wearing masks *reduces* the chance that those droplets will be transfered between people.
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:03am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Correct
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:08am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Wrong, in practice the wearing of cloth masks has zero effect on transmission. It is virtue signalling theatre.
    
    Benedict, if you wish to say otherwise, can you cite any studies if mask use in the real world that show such an effect ?
    
    People may wish to believe that they do, but the Covid virus does not travel in “droplets” as such, it is aerosolized and so travels in particles too small to really be called droplets. These can and do travel through cloth masks, but especially travel around them through any gaps.
    
    That is why I am opposed to masks mandates. They give a false sense of security and are used to impose compliance.
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:59am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The masks are a danger for many users as they force re-breathing of CO2 filled air.
      I use one when making up my herbal preparations but they are most unpleasant.
      
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      August 21, 2021 1:12pm
Humble Capitalist

Its going to be another terrifying day across the land today. I know because Simon Shallow and his team sheep-lievers told me so.
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August 21, 2021 8:27am
Ruahine

This Post is from the excellent blog Point of Order.
It is from the Daily Telegraph. Oh to see ourselves as others see us comes to mind.

https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2021/08/20/nz-and-the-zero-risk-fetish-a-policy-that-allows-ardern-to-lock-us-down-and-keep-us-under-state-protection/#more-11663
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August 21, 2021 8:30am
JibberJabber

WE ARE THE FROGS – AND IT’S GETTING DARN HOT IN HERE!

https://twitter.com/davidjthunder/status/1428370459238797322
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August 21, 2021 8:32am
Humble Capitalist

An older relative just told me that nobody ever died of COVID after being vaccinated. I had to tell him that wasnt correct and he may have been conned on that. ‘Ever get the feeling youve been cheated?’ Johnny Rotten 1978
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August 21, 2021 8:34am
- R
  
  HC
  
  At least 49 fully vaccinated people died from Covid in New Jersey in July. It’s weird that the media here are not reporting that information. Anyone could be forgiven for thinking that there is a deliberate policy to suppress information.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:24am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yes but don’t cherry pick data in an attempt to suggest that the vaccines are not highly effective in preventing death.
    
    In August, New Jersey had 3 deaths, all unvaccinated.
    
    https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/08/nj-reports-884-covid-cased-3-deaths-cdc-recommends-indoor-masking-in-all-21-counties.html
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:17am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Highly effective is going a bit far, no ? All deaths from Covid are down from last years peaks, and significantly at that.
      
      It may be a quibble over language, but I would not call the current difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated “highly effective” though it is, in the current figures, noticeable. And as it does appear that for at least some vaccines the effect diminishes quite rapidly over time.
      
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      August 21, 2021 12:03pm
Critical Thinker

A Quick Lesson in Basic Psychology

⛓ Learned Helplessness: If we have learned / feel that we are powerless, we don’t even bother to try challenging the status quo. We just become passive and accepting.

? Regression (and fear of freedom). Freedom comes with risk and responsibility. Most crave a return to the submissive comfort of childhood, where adults took care of everything. They want the state to take care of them.

? Cognitive Misers: We simply don’t have the time nor the energy to process a lot of new, complex information or change thinking habits.

? Wilful Blindness (also known as the Ostrich Effect): Our minds won’t let us acknowledge something if it will cause psychological pain. So we ignore it, say it doesn’t matter, rationalise excuses, etc.

? System Justification: We cannot imagine that the system we grew up in and benefited from could do us harm. We assume it always has our best interests at heart.

?‍⚕️ Authority: We assume that those with credentials or in positions of authority must know what they are doing, so we trust them implicitly and follow their instructions.

? Cognitive Dissonance: When something doesn’t match our expectations of the world, it causes uncomfortable psychological tension, which we seek to minimise through defence mechanisms like denial.

? In-Group Bias: Being social animals, we tend to reject information if it clashes with our group identity (“it must be wrong if the other side said it”). In fact, it can just make us even more polarised.

? Terror Management: Thinking about death (or the idea that our psychological construction of reality might go extinct) causes us to ‘close up’ psychologically and become intolerant of other ideas.

? Conformity: We assume the crowd must know what it’s doing, and we are terrified of being ostracised, since this meant death in evolutionary terms.

? Mass Psychosis: Is an epidemic of madness and it occurs when a large portion of a society loses touch with reality and descends into delusions.
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August 21, 2021 8:35am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Socialism 101, and it’s working. Full speed ahead, all hail dear leader
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:28am
- krazykiwi
  
  Very good. We can see LOTS of this at work around us.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:30am
- kevn
  
  @CThinker… Where is heading about one being consistently lied to by political leaders? Then being critical and sceptical as a response?
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:43am
Tom Hunter

It’s been seven months and with all the crisis engulfing President Biden – Afghanistan, the US-Mexican border, etc – I wonder when DPF is going to have some posts on them?
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August 21, 2021 8:39am
- All_on_Red
  
  https://www.wsj.com/articles/confidential-state-department-cable-in-july-warned-of-afghanistans-collapse-11629406993
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:09am
- kowtow
  
  Biden’s had his emperor’s clothes moment , with the collapse in Afghanistan.
  
  It will now not only be acceptable to point the finger at the Ole Fool , it will become fashionable .
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:22am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  To point out that Biden fucked up would mean Trump’s civilian evacuation plan (canned by Biden in June) was the right way to pull out of Afghanistan
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:32am
  - gravedodger
    
    May not have been “right” in the light of history, however Trump seemed to have the attention of the Taliban terrorists and it could be said his withdrawal plans had some degree of practicability and local collaboration to last until the troop withdrawal was accomplished following the exit of civilians and US citizens. Bidens calamitous disaster is so bad even he cannot stay around to watch.
    
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    August 21, 2021 3:04pm
- geoff3012
  
  Don’t think he will as he said if he had a choice he would vote for Biden…
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:57am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Warning, Batman alert. He will be along very shortly to advise that the withdrawal was all Trump’s idea and therefore Trump bears the entire responsibility for the utter debacle that is was.
    
    Joe did his best, cancelling invalid plans and refusing (no doubt correctly) to leave any troops at all and for operational secrecy reasons refusing to tell either his NATO allies or the Afghanis of the sudden withdrawal; but all in all, Joe did what had to be done and did it “really well”.
    
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    August 21, 2021 12:08pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      https://pjmedia.com/vodkapundit/2021/08/20/fact-checking-bidens-address-lies-damned-lies-and-the-white-house-teleprompter-n1471356
      
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      August 21, 2021 3:32pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Be kind to the demented
  
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  August 21, 2021 12:34pm
Frank the tank

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-what-happened-after-the-uk-dropped-all-restrictions/BP56KK2VNDVZNGGG73FFMTUS6U/

Desperation in the scare porn community. The game is up and they know it.
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August 21, 2021 8:42am
MrTips

Whoops, Cindy is copping a pasting in comments on Stuff. Emergency meeting, emergency meeting!!!
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/126133144/covid19-what-will-the-government-do-if-it-cant-eliminate-delta#comments

It’s heartening to see many NZers that have functioning neurones and appear to be waking up.
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August 21, 2021 8:44am
- westernScientest
  
  Yeah I was surprised with the number saying ‘learn to live with it’ or something to that effect.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:10am
- Gravelroad
  
  Bbwhahaha – Mr Tips- did you see the comment from one of them blaming this current situation on the National Party for agitating to get the bubble with Australia opened up?
  “ Labour was the handbrake on this bubble; but unfortunately gave in to the National and business lobbyists.”
  Seriously, do these Labour Party fanatics ever think about how stupid and immature their utterances appear?
  Mr Winston Peters ought to trade mark the “hand brake” moniker, otherwise the Labour Party politburo will take it off him.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:21am
  - westernScientest
    
    9 years of neglect clearly
    
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    August 21, 2021 9:26am
  - lifesgood
    
    Gravel road Funny, eh? Of course we should have had a travel bubble. Disclaimer: I did not use it. The worst thing Australia and NZ have done is thinking they can eliminate the virus. If we had vaccinated 80% of the population by now we could be open to the world, like the UK. We should not be announcing cases, they are not important, we should only be announcing hospitalisations and deaths and I’m not even sure about that since we don’t with the flu.
    
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    August 21, 2021 9:27am
- kowtow
  
  Amazing they’re allowing comments . Expect to see it closed before long.
  
  Or even disappear altogether like the ( I think) newshub story of the Auckland Law wallah defending Billy te Arrestee.
  
  That’s a big story of self censorship or was there some kind of intervention ?
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:28am
  - kowtow
    
    Correction Newsroom , not newshub.
    
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    August 21, 2021 9:37am
- curry4me
  
  MrTips: Bad $1tuffed!!!!! Bad!!!!! Socialist cindy is reviewing your future Cindy Bucks allocations.
  
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  August 21, 2021 3:37pm
JibberJabber

The Left in a nutshell…
https://twitter.com/CreativeDeduct/status/1428814274911211521
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August 21, 2021 8:48am
Gravelroad

Can someone remind me why this guy was considered unsuitable to lead the National Party?
And was unceremoniously dumped for Todd Muller?
(I don’t want to hear that it was because he talked funny and that the polls made them do it – polls which were manipulated by the msm and social media ffs).

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/simon-bridges-on-whats-next-ive-found-my-true-happiness/WC42LU2A2IGTMFYXDOJI3EL6BM
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August 21, 2021 9:03am
- lifesgood
  
  He was dumped because National listened to Labour and their paid for msm. Labour hated him because he is way more intelligent and clever than anyone they have. They were plain scared. They are pulling the same stunt on Judith for the same reasons. Unfortunately too many Nat supporters listen to Labour and agree with them. It’s not doing National any good.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:18am
  - Bob
    
    not doing National any good…..
    NOT DOING NZ ANY GOOD EITHER.
    Will take the next Nationals government decades to tidy up this mess.
    Makes the collective incompetence of Kirk, Lange and Clark seem like competence.
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:48am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  If he HTFU he would get somewhere
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:37am
- MCos
  
  As with any leadership change he was dumped because those responsible for deciding these things thought someone else was better.
  BTW
  I don’t recall offhand anyone in either of our two main parties making a successful return to the top party job.
  Holyoake was the only person to regain the PM position after losing it since it was instituted in 1907.
  
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  August 21, 2021 11:45am
Close Hen Counters

I am a bit puzzled as to why one person in north shore hospital’s ED/surgical assessment unit for a matter of hours (in the early hours of the morning when there is prob the least amount of staff and patients) necessitates a lockdown of these departments for days (14 days?) – ward 65 at Auckland hospital had an infectious nurse do four shifts and did their ward get closed?
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August 21, 2021 9:07am
Tony Stuart

Jo Moir at Newsroom is normally in the PM’s corner, but her piece today is not especially complimentary:

Testing and vaccinating too much for DHBs

The day Delta was found in New Zealand coincided with the first time the country had hit a record 55,000 vaccinations. Testing stations are swamped and vaccination centres are closed when they’re most needed, writes political editor Jo Moir.

Frontline health workers were stretched thin, exhausted and in need of a break before Delta smashed its way into New Zealand this week.

Nurses were due to strike in protest over unsafe working conditions and poor pay – the irony being they now can’t strike because they’re working even harder and longer hours in even more unsafe conditions.

Two Auckland hospitals have been hit by the virus causing severe disruptions and requiring staff to isolate.

Testing stations in Auckland are drowning under the pressure of cars lined up for kilometres and anxious symptomatic Kiwis, including contacts of positive cases, waiting hours to be tested and in some cases turned away and told to try again tomorrow.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/testing-and-vaccinating-too-much-for-dhbs

The Government and Ministry of Health have known for months Delta would eventually arrive here. So why is their combined response so shambolic? Were there no contingency plans put in place?

Or has the PM’s fear-mongering about the Delta variant come back to bite her on the bum?

It’s not just Moir either. Luke Malpas has a damning piece on Stuff, but that’s small beer compared to what Claire Trevett has written:

Claire Trevett: Delta outbreak leaves PM relying on fear instead of vaccines for lockdown success

Perversely, New Zealand’s low vaccination rate is both an indictment and a blessing in disguise if the lockdown is to succeed.

Throughout the year, the Prime Minister has defended New Zealand not getting its vaccines earlier because we did not have Covid-19 and other countries needed them more.

The latter was accurate, but it was always going to be a problem when the first bit of that changed and we did have Covid-19.

Now we have it and, like New South Wales, we are a naked little baby in a blizzard.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/claire-trevett-delta-outbreak-leaves-pm-relying-on-fear-instead-of-vaccines-for-lockdown-success/QLWEIF6GOURPIIE2O5NS76BGRY/

Both pieces are wll worth a read today, given that none of us can go anywhere!
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August 21, 2021 9:08am
- MrTips
  
  Govt needs to kick MEDSAFE in the arse and get the Novovax one approved. Who says we have to wait for the frickin FDA??? It’s already submitted in other countries and very soon, if not already, to the WHO for emergency use. The damn thing works and is more acceptable to many. I wrote Judith and Shane, and David S, telling them so. Get on with it!
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:19am
  - krazykiwi
    
    I wouldn’t mind betting one or two Pfizer execs have had quite chats with the FDA about drawing out the EUA for Novavax. Pfizer have form in bullying.
    
    9 2
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    August 21, 2021 10:50am
- Ruahine
  
  “Throughout the year, the Prime Minister has defended New Zealand not getting its vaccines earlier because we did not have Covid-19 and other countries needed them more.”
  
  Look everybody. See how kind I am. It was nothing of the kind at all. Just more verbal trash to cover up her and her Gov’ts uselessness.
  Actions speak louder than words.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:49am
  - oc35
    
    Non Actions
    
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    August 21, 2021 12:26pm
  - curry4me
    
    Ruahine: I wonder how long it’ll be before they find $50 mill or so to re-open the NZ Womens Weekly? Except, it’ll be calles the Aotearower Womens Weekly, and have weekly puff pieces. I’m sure that’ll reverse the downward trend in the polls. /sarc
    
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    August 21, 2021 3:48pm
- nathie
  
  Nurses were due to strike in protest over unsafe working conditions and poor pay – the irony being they now can’t strike because they’re working even harder and longer hours in even more unsafe conditions.
  
  In many respects it could be said “we are at war” with covid.
  
  Normally when “we are at war” the government of the day ramps up bigtime (hugely) eg 10x more soldiers than in peacetime and so on.
  
  So what has the Jacinda Ardern Labour government done to ramp up the medical profession (in the “war” with covid)?
  
  Well we are still hearing that nurses and doctors are stretched to breaking point, in fact it’s worse because of the extra covid/rsv demands.
  
  Has the Jacinda Ardern Labour government called for ALL retired nurses and doctors (that are able bodied) to be brought back into the health system? Including returning NZ’ers? Including medically trained immigrants driving taxis because their qualifications aren’t compatible (they could be under supervision)?
  
  After all that’s what Grant Robertson’s $50 billion was borrowed for – it would have easily paid for such initiatives. (Oh what’s that, he spent it on other things)?
  
  So will the MSM ask the question of Jacinda and Grant, which is now many extra nurses and doctors and support staff have the govt brought back into the health system, in the fight against covid?
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:44am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Between 1st August 2020 and 9th January 2021 the top occupation for NZers returning from overseas was ‘Nurse’. The 5th highest was ‘GP’.
    
    Yet we’re keeping them out with a broken MIQ syste,
    
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    August 21, 2021 10:53am
  - Bob
    
    “called for ALL retired nurses and doctor”….
    There were far too many other more important discussions to be had, and decisions to be made; for such a sensible easy to implement suggestion to see the light of day.
    After all there was an essential road upgrade to cancel, and a cycle walkway across the harbour to design and fund.
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:52am
- Ruawai
  
  Is it more important to test or vaccinate? I would have thought it is more important to vaccinate, if people have covid just self isolate until they can get a test but to stop vaccinating is 50,000 people fewer vaccinated per day, wonder if there is a shortage of vaccines again?
  
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  August 21, 2021 12:01pm
plc

Michael Cullen’s passing reminded me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXHleozgQ18
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August 21, 2021 9:11am
- Sede Vacante
  
  I wonder if Cullen will get a funeral? Surely his ideological ties to Jacinda will not allow it. I’m sure he wouldn’t like to be seen as a post-mortem hypocrite.
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:56am
  - cas
    
    Private funeral then a service or something in Taneatua later.
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:15am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Jan 6th, Trump not involved. Duck – lefties in 3, 2, 1.
https://thepoliticalinsider.com/fbi-finds-capitol-riot-was-not-a-coordinated-plot/?
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August 21, 2021 9:11am
JibberJabber

Yoo Hoo, BLM any rioting today?
https://tatumreport.com/7-year-old-dead-6-year-old-critical-condition-shooting-chicago/

No? ?
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August 21, 2021 9:15am
Surely Knott

CASE A : Stuff is running an article on Case A who they are still saying is Devonport man. Prime Minister thanked him he used the app etc. But is he really Case A?

The 17 August Media Release says,

Devonport man tested positive.
16 August Attended GP
14 August was Symptomatic.
12 August Likely Infectious.

The man travelled around the coromandel with his wife.

RNZ Yesterday

RNZ says “The outbreak has been linked to a person who travelled to New Zealand from NSW on 7 August and transferred to hospital on 16 August.”

But this doesn’t tally as the locations of interest are since 1 August.
1 Aug: Melba Hillsbourough, 2 Aug Chipmunks New Lynn, 3 4 5 blockhouse bay kindergarten and blockhouse bay buses. Mitre 10 New Lynn.

Those are someone who lives in Blockhousebay/ New Lynn with small kids surely. Those aren’t the locations of Devonport man? I don’t think Devonport man had any small kids who went to kindy in West Auckland. And if it entered the country on the 7 August why are we looking at 1 august dates?

Who is Case A who lives in Blockhouse Bay?
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August 21, 2021 9:15am
- miltonF
  
  I’ll give you a clue.
  
  The podium of truth has been “too definitive”.
  
  This govt wouldn’t know what honesty was even if it lept up and bit them on the behind.
  
  Power over principles has always been Jacinda’s modus operandi.
  
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  August 21, 2021 12:38pm
ABS4EVA

Well What kind of a RODENT?
Funds the Mongrel MOB?
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August 21, 2021 9:20am
Steve Todd

During the week (Monday), the Archbishop of Dublin, Dermot Farrell, said that evidence of Christian belief in Ireland “has for all intents and purposes vanished”. He warned that the “current model of the Church is unsustainable”, and that Ireland’s “crisis of faith” is “particularly acute among the younger generations”.

A day later, as if to underscore his point, “for the first time in Ireland’s history, an atheist group was invited to meet the Lord Mayor of Dublin, Labour Cllr Alison Gilliland.”
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thefreethinker/2021/08/atheists-get-to-meet-dublins-lord-mayor-for-the-first-time/?

Atheist commentator, Cassidy McGillicuddy, has no sympathy for the Church. See her devastating reaction to Archbishop Dermot Farrell’s anguish, here: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/rolltodisbelieve/2021/08/17/belief-has-vanished-in-ireland-and-an-archbishop-reveals-why/?

The Church in Ireland has well and truly fallen on hard times, and rightly so.
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August 21, 2021 9:29am
- krazykiwi
  
  Sorry Steve, the atheism vaccine you’re pushing doesn’t work.
  
  Christianity is endemic.
  
  You’ll need to learn to live with it.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:33am
  - Sede Vacante
    
    I’d much prefer living under a Catholic theocracy than a Medical Tyranny run by Jacinda.
    
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    August 21, 2021 9:46am
    - Steve Todd
      
      No surprises there, given your pseudonym.
      
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      August 21, 2021 10:18am
      - Sede Vacante
        
        I used to call myself “Jab Me Gently, Jacinda” but then I had an epiphany and did a 180.
        
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        August 21, 2021 10:28am
  - Steve Todd
    
    Whether Christianity lives or dies — polling over recent years indicates it is dying — makes no difference to me, kk. However, the decline in religionism, especially in the West / first world, is worth noting.
    
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    August 21, 2021 9:47am
    - SGA
      
      “Lives or dies”? Well, I think that’s a bit melodramatic. It will always have a core of ardent believers (at least for the foreseeable future), but that has certainly progressively shrunk over the decades in many countries. I’m not sure if I would call that “endemic” though – tbh, I’m not sure what krazykiwi means by that word in this context.
      
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      August 21, 2021 10:10am
      - Sede Vacante
        
        Christianity has always been an effective bullwark against usurpacious authoritarian atheists and other aggressive ideologies, which is why it is deliberately undermined by these pretenders.
        
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        August 21, 2021 10:32am
      - SGA
        
        Opps “reported” you by mistake. Sorry.
        “Christianity has always been an effective bullwark against usurpacious authoritarian atheists and other aggressive ideologies”
        On the hand, Christianity has supported, directly or tacitly, various authoritarian and aggressive ideologies when it has served its interests to do so. It’s been no saint that way.
        
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        August 21, 2021 11:09am
    - dcrane
      
      Traditional religion is being replaced by emotional dedication to political tribalism and woke fads.
      
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      August 21, 2021 10:10am
      - oldfella
        
        Yes, dcrane, as witnessed by the surging religionism of cults like the Vegans and Climate Changers.
        Their followers make the Taliban look moderate. /s
        
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        August 21, 2021 10:46am
      - kowtow
        
        Gaiaism.
        
        Wokism.
        
        Reverse racism.
        
        All disguises for Marxism.
        
        18 2
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        August 21, 2021 11:04am
      - SGA
        
        @dcrane
        
        Traditional religion is being replaced by emotional dedication to political tribalism and woke fads
        
        meh – political tribalism has been going on for centuries, nothing new there.
        “Woke fads”, aggressive atheism etc – perhaps, but to a small extent, I think. Over the last 60 odd years, “Jo Average” in places like NZ has shown less and less interest in organised religions. Blaming it on “vegans”, “wokism”, etc is being blind to what’s really happened.
        
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        August 21, 2021 11:42am
      - dcrane
        
        @SGA I agree on your first reply, but to me (as an American anyway) the effect of political tribalism on people’s ability to communicate over evidence has gone off the charts since 2016.
        
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        August 21, 2021 12:04pm
- alloytoo
  
  The problem (and I speak as someone vaguely sauntered downward) is that the young seem to need “something” to fill a church shaped hole.
  
  Climate cult
  Covid fear porn
  Victimhood cult….
  
  21st Century Christian church seems nice and benign
  
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  August 21, 2021 6:53pm
- ABS4EVA
  
  Garbage
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Gallen
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbey_of_Saint_Gall
  
  Around 612 Gallus, according to tradition an Irish monk and disciple and companion of Saint Columbanus, established a hermitage on the site that would become the monastery.
  
  The Heathens never prevail in IRELAND
  they have attempted to Destroy Christian Ireland
  for 1500 years and FAILED
  
  They are RABID this time
  
  At the Height of Pagan Norse Power
  only 12 Irishmen were actively resisting the heathen
  
  That is all it takes – they turned it around
  
  The IRISH are Organising
  TO TAKE BACK Their Country from
  THE HEATHEN
  
  If you want to see the Civilising Influence of
  IRISH CHRISTIAN Culture and an example of it
  
  VISIT Saint Gallen Switzerland
  
  ‘This country of ours is no sand-bank thrown up by some caprice of earth. It is an ancient land, honoured in the archives of civilization, traceable into antiquity by its piety, its valour and its sufferings.’
  
  ~ Irish writer Thomas Davis (1814-1845)
  
  THESE FOOLS and Scum bags are an Aberation
  and will be remembered like the godless violent
  Corrupt Norse who like every other pack of scumbags eventually
  
  GOT THE BOOT
  
  and if it takes another 1500 years of resistance
  THE IRISH WILL PREVAIL
  
  Come hell or HIGH WATER
  
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  August 21, 2021 8:38pm
ABS4EVA

Aus Labour Party

Uninformed about the VAX in Israel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDNoZGMJZso
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August 21, 2021 9:35am
- emmess
  
  I am not really concerned about how many people are getting infected who are vaccinated or unvaccinated
  What is the split of vaccinated or unvaccinated of those who are dying in Israel?
  I cannot find that data, that will help me make my decision
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:43am
  - miltonF
    
    Last I saw, 85% of hospitalisations in Israel are vaccinated. This number has been increasing over the last month. 75% of Israelis have been jabbed.
    
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    August 21, 2021 12:43pm
  - Critical Thinker
    
    68% Pfizer “vaccinated” Israel is nearing the same deaths as what India was having back in May… We can all remember how hysterical the media and our government were about the India situation back then… ?
    
    Recently much of India has been using Ivermectin with truly stunning positive results. Hopefully NZ will follow the science and start allowing its use soon ??
    https://ivmstatus.com/
    
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    August 21, 2021 1:36pm
CAKE FACE1

I wonder whether Cindy will do a ‘little dance’ when she announces the Ro cases today?

How to describe this government?

Hubris. Arrogance. Smugness.

What price will we pay, for these foolish fools with their foolish pride?

Eventually, I predict a riot, if these lockdowns continue.
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August 21, 2021 9:41am
oc35

Have the Cabinet gone home for the weekend?
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August 21, 2021 9:43am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I think they’re off for another week at least.
  
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  August 21, 2021 1:47pm
Nukuleka

Here in Christchurch there seem to be far more cars on the road- and plenty of hoons out joyriding- than there ever were in our first national Level 4 lockdown last year. Far more people out in the parks with kids and dogs mixing and mingling as well. Very few masks on display. Is this typical throughout the country?
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August 21, 2021 9:45am
- dcrane
  
  Noticed this last night as well on scenic drive. Not lots of cars, but probably 3x as many as I saw in the first weeks of the first Level 4.
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:12am
- Ed Snack
  
  Makes sense though, outdoors transmission of Covid is virtually unknown, and masks have no effect on transmission. So being outside massless or otherwise is a healthy thing to do – if for no other reason than to marginally boost ones Vitamin D levels. And that has been shown to be protective.
  
  Being in a car, since is most probably with your “bubble” partners, isn’t going to spread much, but won’t help your Vitamin D much.
  
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  August 21, 2021 12:19pm
Nukuleka

PS to my earlier comment. Not so many teddy bears to be seen either.
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August 21, 2021 9:46am
- krazykiwi
  
  I was one in a window in Kilbirnie. It was hanging by a noose!
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:13am
- krazykiwi
  
  Ooops. I *saw* one …
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:28am
  - Biscuit
    
    I’m rushing towards 70, kk…
    
    But I have a teddy bear.
    
    It came (along with the casket containing his ashes) from the Funeral Home where my Dad was cremated 7 years ago.
    
    Yeha, yeah, I’m a wimp…
    
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    August 21, 2021 10:50am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    That’s some kind of Freudian slip, KK!
    
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    August 21, 2021 12:40pm
BananaLlama

Just think DPF, Krazy Kiwi could have paid you $100 cash money to bump off Vory v zakone from the first post of GD today.
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August 21, 2021 9:47am
- krazykiwi
  
  Ha ha ha … That’s my lunch money for two weeks.
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:12am
Ra Henare

I find it incredibel/intersting that NZ remains a slave to WHO pronouncements

No use of saliva quick testing(apparently within 3% accuracy of PCR swabs-which by the way have lots of false positives.

And not using intervention to help reduce spread, only relying on lockdown….They could be using nasal sprays- yep available in NZ

https://www.timesofisrael.com/life-saving-nose-spray-that-kills-99-9-of-viruses-begins-production-in-israel/
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August 21, 2021 9:50am
- kowtow
  
  Or daily sewerage monitoring .
  
  Why the Media pardy don’t go hard and early with the questions is obvious .
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:32am
  - oldfella
    
    yes, kowtow, after all the Media pardy are sh*t experts.
    
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    August 21, 2021 10:49am
    - kowtow
      
      They spend alot of their time in the sewers.
      
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      August 21, 2021 11:06am
      - Nickc2
        
        and the rest of their time in the Beehive in Wgtn. Oops, sorry, same thing.
        
        4 1
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        August 21, 2021 12:26pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        And yet entirely miss the point of being there
        
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        August 21, 2021 12:40pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

All is fine in Kabul now. Even CNN?
https://thepoliticalinsider.com/taliban-fighters-charge-at-cnn-crew-with-guns/?
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August 21, 2021 9:53am
- emmess
  
  At least it was people that were about to kill her were friendly enough.
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:47am
- kevn
  
  @SteveO… Looked like ardern in Kabul.
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:53am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    She would fit right in, already has the right clothing
    
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    August 21, 2021 12:03pm
    - jon
      
      Thought she would have been on that RNZAF flight to Kabul to retrieve our endangered citizens and others. She would have been up for hugging the Taliban and thank them for their plans to be kinder to women.
      
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      August 21, 2021 4:48pm
Biscuit

I see those car queues – some of them going for kilometres – and am waiting for Jimmy and Julie to begin screeching ‘BIKE to the testing stations. Leave those evil gas-guzzler cars at home!’

And I keep looking in my letterbox for my Honorary Membership of the Green Party certificate. For my first jab, I walked to the jab station and – such a brave little soldier, me – all the way back.

Will do the same on Saturday week when I get my second dose.

Okay, a distance of only 250 metres is involved but, and the oldies amongst us may remember this, we used to get certificates at primary school when we were able to swim 25 yards, ha…
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August 21, 2021 10:00am
- I remember when
  
  All with appropriate sounding names – was it something like Tadpole and Goldfish?
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:13am
- alloytoo
  
  After two texts reminding me yesterday of my appointment, I got one today cancelling it and asking me to rebook.
  
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  August 21, 2021 6:57pm
Maggy Wassilieff

For those who can’t access Fran O’ Sullivan’s scathing comments about our Dear PM’s podium-hugging performances:

https://ysb.co.nz/have-your-say-858/#comment-164856
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August 21, 2021 10:02am
CAKE FACE1

My favourite lefty journalist has to be Malcolm Caldwell.

His story was rather ironical:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Caldwell#Early_life_and_career

This awful Al Jazeera journalist Charlotte Bellis made me remember him. What she is doing isn’t right. Caldwell’s fate could give her pause for thought?
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August 21, 2021 10:04am
MrTips

Just in from the DSM-V

Baker-Hendy Disease™️: a delusional condition that manifests as two main forms.
i. the, at times fanatical, adherence to the belief that hide-and-go-seek can eliminate infectious disease at a population level or,
ii. The belief that quadratic equations and time-decay analyses have anti-viral properties.

Symptoms:
a) constant craving for media attention
b) inability to answer pointed questions based on real world data
c) refusal to accept progress by others in the realm of medicine/science that may lead to challenges to a) or further external attempts at b).

Treatment: none available. At the present time, social distancing and adherence to reality are the only proven methods of prevention of transmission.

Prognosis: the outlook is poor. Elimination from all forms of media has been proposed, but difficult to achieve due to the contagious nature of the condition, especially amoung naive young journalists.
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August 21, 2021 10:04am
- Sede Vacante
  
  It’s just a shame they are never held accountable whenever their dire prognostications inevitably fail to eventuate. If they had any integrity, they would have stood down after the first half dozen or so.
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:35am
I remember when

Thank goodness I live in New Zealand and we are all safe from covid outbreaks.
Wasn’t it great to see the Olympic athletes arrive back to safety in New Zealand.
Well except for Burling and Tuke in Prague, Lydia Ko in the UK, Tom Walsh off to compete in the Diamond League, the Triathletes in Canada, Footballers wherever their club and the prospects are ….
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August 21, 2021 10:10am
Maggie Pie

If the rumors we’re hearing coming out of Wellington are correct, that the country will remain at LV4 lockdown until the end of September, should people with Mortgages be classified as…. ‘Essential Workers?”

Asking for a couple of the girls from Tennis.
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August 21, 2021 10:19am
- kevn
  
  @Maggie… Our son in Akld is mid stream a house deal. Not great timing, only so much one can do by email and talking per phone.
  Level 4 mid Sept you mention is possible.
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:57am
Tony Stuart

Re the cases in Wellington. Dr Bloomfield told the presser yesterday he was first alerted to it around 8.30am yesterday morning, but that the positive result had come in around 4.30pm and Thursday.

Are we seriously supposed to believe that MoH staff knew that there was community transmission to Wellington a full SIXTEEN HOURS before they got around to telling their boss, the Director-General of Health?
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August 21, 2021 10:24am
- kowtow
  
  Maybe the person in charge of telling him was busy at the tattooists’ , gettin’ his face removed ……….
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:35am
Biscuit

And, Tony, I see Bloomfield’s mob yesterday pulled the same Keep-’em-waiting stunt that Jacinda has mastered.

I gave up waiting for the 1pm update we were promised.

Both Ardern and Bloomfield need to have it stressed to them that they are public servants and that we aren’t here to be told ‘Oh, we knew about that 753252364 hours ago but because we know everything, we’re busy and Jacinda’s lectern’s uplight had blown a fuse we didn’t feel the need to tell you at the time…’
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August 21, 2021 10:34am
- Gravelroad
  
  This “keep them waiting” business is a charade perpetrated to build suspense and fear – just like in a 1940’s gangster movie.
  It’s disrespectful of the audience (which has made itself captive) and just basically showing off as a result.
  Just give us the facts at the stated time and we will make up our own minds. Or does that not fit with the “I am your saviour” narrative?
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:48am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I may be an old fart and old school. but my father was a stickler for punctuality, and it rubbed off on me. His view was that to be late to a meeting was sending a message to the person you were meeting with that their time was of less importance than yours. It’s advice that has served me well for 66 years.
  
  If only the PM, her Ministers, and the MoH held similar values…
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:48am
  - lifesgood
    
    She does it to make herself look really, really important, you know, I have to meet with all these people and get things right before I speak. What a dumb cluck, she doesn’t get anything right. I am sure she is just standing off to the side saying to Ashley, “OK, do you think we’ve kept them waiting long enough?”
    
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    August 21, 2021 10:57am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Same as getting to work on time. I start at 8, but I unlock at 7.20.
    State Sector Employees don’t give a shit
    
    10 2
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    August 21, 2021 12:11pm
    - alloytoo
      
      I remember I’d started a new job.
      
      My predecessor had a key (it was a warehouse), but it wasn’t passed onto me.
      
      after a week or so started arriving 1/2 hour before the doors opened (got the traffic figured), and a particularly nippy morning I settled in for a nap in my car.
      
      There was a tapping on the window and my boss who had arrived early asked if I wanted to come inside. That evening he handed me my own set of keys.
      
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      August 21, 2021 7:04pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Yeah, she can get fucked with her childish power-play making-every-one-wait bullshit. Its tremendously disrespectful, and absolutely unacceptable excepting genuine unforeseen circumstances out in the real world
    
    13 1
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    August 21, 2021 2:00pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Yea, she reminds me of a ballerina who waits behind the curtain for an encore. What if the encore doesn’t happen? Just saying.
      
      3 2
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      August 21, 2021 4:17pm
I remember when

What went wrong in Afghanistan.
Perhaps a better question was, how likely was it that it would go right.
When was the last time a regular army had a win in an organised guerrilla war.
Vietnam and Afghanistan were twins – taking over from previous failed attempts to conquer/control the locals.
Foreigners from distant homelands attempting to tell the locals what they should do.
At the end of the day the soldiers had to stay alert while the guerillas slipped back into the local population.
Every death causing mistake just made the local people more resolute.
The American voters saw a continuous diet of the children, unarmed, women and apparently innocent being bombed and becoming the victims of war.
Atrocities by the guerrillas on the other hand influenced a much smaller group of people.
The odds are always with the guerrillas. They can fight or disappear. They can decide when and where they fight then leave.
Unless you can see the enemy forces and their bases never start a fight, or try to stop one.
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August 21, 2021 10:34am
- emmess
  
  What went wrong in Afghanistan.
  
  President Potato Brain
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:49am
- cmm
  
  Yup, asymmetric warfare always favours the guerillas for many reasons.
  
  Once the USA (and others) got embroiled, they were stuck until they could just negotiate a way out of it and hand back to the Taliban.
  
  They could have done so on a more orderly basis or they could have just done what Biden did. It is not obvious that the difference would have been that large either way.
  
  Perhaps this will make the USA far less likely to involve themselves in other foreign disturbances. Unfortunate, since there are a lot of places they could possibly do a lot better than they did in Afghanistan (eg. some of the lower-key wars like what’s happening in Mozambique right now).
  
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  August 21, 2021 11:14am
  - rockape
    
    I think it certain that many countries will no longer support US overseas military operations having been let down by this one.
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:31am
- RW Capitalist
  
  To take issue
  The local populace in Vietnam, did not want the Vietcong (made up name).
  What followed the retreat of the US, shows this..
  remember the “boat people” 100’s of thousands risking their live ( some dying) to escape.
  Unfortunately Afghanistan is land locked and the countries surrounding them are not exactly “safe havens”.
  
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  August 21, 2021 11:36am
- MCos
  
  Sooner or later an invader will have to leave.
  At one time European countries invadaed countries all over the world and gradually they had have had to leave.
  Vietnam was one of them; colonized by France who had their arsed kicked. They should have resolved the situation at that time but that’s not what happened.
  
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  August 21, 2021 12:04pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Hmmm, so what did you say your heritage was again …..
    
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    August 21, 2021 1:34pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  What went wrong was canning Trump’s civilian evacuation plan, and not making another. All because of Trump hate.
  Now, the lucky ones will be killed – Bridgette Gabriel.
  
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  August 21, 2021 12:15pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  War is an extension of politics by other means.
  
  Put another way, an occupation by a foreign power cannot militarily defeat a local guerrilla force. What it can do is to create the space for different ideas & values to be propagated. The failure in Afghanistan is primarily political, not military.
  
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  August 21, 2021 12:47pm
- Durden
  
  Sri lanka. Although only after genocide level killings by army. Never been called to answer in The Hague.
  
  Tamil lives don’t matter.
  
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  August 21, 2021 1:05pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Being there.
  
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  August 21, 2021 1:24pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Guerillas only win if population don’t oppose them. If you want to beat guerillas you have to get the population working against the guerillas – with carrot or stick. Historically this was done very successfully using stick – punishing groups that helped guerillas to ensure that they had no harbour in the population (Eg German Sippenhaft or “Kin Liability”, as practiced by basically every repressive regime). It is only in last 100 years that guerillas have found success against western powers due to squeamishness with inflicting punishment on possibly innocent 3rd parties.
  
  But the problem with the squeamishness is that in the long run it costs a lot more lives to protracted conflicts. Afghan women are just the latest sacrifices to western ethics.
  
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  August 21, 2021 1:56pm
Maggie Pie

SkyNewsUK reports…

‘Afghanistan produces most of the worlds Opium and Heroin but the Taliban claim drugs will no longer be produced under their rule”

My partner reckons it would be the right time to short Horse.
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August 21, 2021 10:40am
I remember when

Great news – just looked at the Death Notices.
The lockdown seems to be working already.
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August 21, 2021 10:42am
- Inandout
  
  Irw, and funeral directors are twiddling their thumbs. Jacinda is wonderful.
  
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  August 21, 2021 10:49am
Inandout

Anyone remember brand name comparative advertising? Bunnings is pushing spray and walk away at $30 and mentioning wet n forget at $99, implying you would be silly to pay 3 times as much for identical ingredients.
10 1
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August 21, 2021 10:47am
- skyblue
  
  30 Seconds. Both 30s and wet & forget are made from benzalkonium chloride. Do similar jobs. I have my own source of benzalkonium chloride which is a lot cheaper.
  
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  August 21, 2021 12:39pm
  - Tall Man
    
    As do I but I lost the mix ratio.
    
    50:1 is what I recall but I may be wrong…….
    
    4 2
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    August 21, 2021 1:33pm
    - skyblue
      
      If you have 50% benzalkonium chloride dilute 25 water to 1. 40 must per litre.
      
      3 0
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      August 21, 2021 4:04pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Thanks. The mix instructions had fallen off the container.
        
        1 1
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        August 21, 2021 5:43pm
Maggie Pie

“Michael Cullen, I believe, was one of the few politicians actually deserving of a Knighthood”

– Jack Tame 1ZB

No mention of JK then?
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August 21, 2021 10:57am
- RW Capitalist
  
  It was one of the things, I was screaming at the TV, at the time, ………..WHY?
  When JK made Michael Cullen head of NZ Post.
  Predicted a mess then, and………………..
  Why would you put a man who destroyed our economy, in charge of NZ Post, a company who needed careful and well judged management.
  Remember, Michael Cullen’s PhD was in Economic HISTORY (not economics) his thesis paper was on Karl Marx.
  ie unqualified yet opinionated and was given power?
  
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  August 21, 2021 11:06am
  - Bob
    
    NZ Post was destroyed long before Cullen was given it.
    Culprit was one of NZ’s first female CEO’s I believe
    
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    August 21, 2021 12:01pm
    - Durden
      
      Huh ? “NZ’s first female CEO” don’t think they ever had one. And Cullen was Chairman not CEO.
      
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      August 21, 2021 1:08pm
      - RalphT
        
        Yes, I think Bob might be thinking of Telecom (Theresa Gattung)
        
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        August 21, 2021 1:26pm
  - lifesgood
    
    NZ Post is a bloody disgrace and just try posting a package overseas. The officious staff are so utterly pedantic about the filling out of the customs note it makes you want to scream. I put my initials and surname on the note – not good enough “We need your full name” – I put my first name and surname of the note – “do you have a second name? “_ Yes _” we need that too” – I put my street address and postcode on – not good enough – “We need your suburb too.” “Why” I ask, the postcode is sufficient. By this time I was bloody furious and felt like throwing the package at them.
    
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    August 21, 2021 6:00pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, you are a bundle of knowledge. Who is Jack’s flatmate now that his previous went and married?
  
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  August 21, 2021 11:14am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Living alone at the moment in a deco-style apartment.
    Bare walls and minimalistic furnishing according to a reliable source. Roof-top herb garden. Bikes everywhere.
    Often seen on his own in a nearby park using the swings.
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:42am
  - oldfella
    
    Who was the previous?
    
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    August 21, 2021 4:58pm
    - Inandout
      
      old, a blond chap whose name escapes me.
      
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      August 21, 2021 5:52pm
    - lifesgood
      
      Was it Matty McLean? Is he married?
      
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      August 21, 2021 6:01pm
- cmm
  
  Considering Michael Cullen was completely opposed to honours, it is nothing short of hypocrisy for him to accept the title.
  
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  August 21, 2021 11:16am
- Muttonbird
  
  For pulling ponytails?
  
  1 19
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  August 21, 2021 12:15pm
  - Tall Man
    
    He shoots, he misses.
    
    Nonsensical commenter, much like ardern.
    
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    August 21, 2021 1:31pm
- Nickc2
  
  Jack Tame – another leftie speed bump looking for a place to get laid.
  
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  August 21, 2021 1:09pm
RW Capitalist

A thought for today?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMXpjxL8t64
Vaccine passports?
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August 21, 2021 11:01am
Tony Stuart

Another journlaist has broken ranks to criticise the PM; this time it’s Fran O’Sullivan, who says:

Covid 19 coronavirus: Fran O’Sullivan: Businesses need less podium performance and more facts

Jacinda Ardern gave the appearance of relishing her podium performances rather too much as she yesterday delayed announcing that Auckland’s level 4 lockdown will be extended by at least one week.

I’ve written before about Ardern’s irritating habit of failing to “just get to the point, Prime Minister” when she indulges in lengthy preambles prior to making the only announcement that the country really wants to hear in these Covid press conferences: “What level of lockdown are we in and for how long?” and “how many cases are we today?” etc.

As a business colleague noted to me yesterday, the PM’s communications approach seems to have been modelled on those annoying “click through” questions that crop up on social media where, for instance, you might be invited to look at movie actor Sam Neill’s mansion and would have to click “next” multiple times first, meantime being swarmed by advertisements.

This approach has worked well for her political brand to this point.

But how refreshing it would have been if Ardern had just said the whole country would be at level 4 until 11.59pm on Tuesday — except for Auckland (host to the infection outbreak) which would stay at that level for at least another week.

Ardern was put the spot by Herald Political Editor Claire Trevett who asked her directly whether she had received advice from Ashley Bloomfield that the Auckland lockdown should be extended to August 31. Ardern equivocated.

Bloomfield — who is by now quite a practiced politician himself — started to make his usual dance on the proverbial pin before indicating that he had indeed given Cabinet advice that he wanted an extension of the Auckland lockdown.

Ardern’s subsequent response that “it’s too soon to draw any reasonable conclusions” makes a nonsense of her oft claim that Cabinet makes its decisions on scientific and expert advice.

Wait until after Monday’s Cabinet response, was the Prime Minister’s statement.

But if Bloomfield’s advice was in front of the special Cabinet meeting yesterday, why not just take it and give Aucklanders some certainty that the level 4 lockdown will go to August 31 (at least)?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/covid-19-coronavirus-fran-osullivan-businesses-need-less-podium-performance-and-more-facts/QY3PMMNVDXXC6567V5LD46RXWM/

O’Sullivan makes the point that businesses need certainty, but the PM seems to be intent on drawing her announcements out as much as she can, never giving more than a few days’ notice of changes. As a business owner, I agree absolutely with that.

This may be political theatre for the Prime Minister, but for business owners, many of who have poured large sums of their own money into their businesses, this is knife-edge stuff. We deserve better.
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August 21, 2021 11:04am
- Wired-one
  
  Here is some certainty Tony. Auckland, Wellington and there surrounding areas will still be in level 4 lockdown until mid September at least. Ardern knows this, Bloomfield knows this and it’s about time they just bloody well said it. They are saying an extra week or three days to maintain hope, when they know full well there is none for people in those regions.
  
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  August 21, 2021 11:16am
  - wilderbeast
    
    I fear you are right
    
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    August 21, 2021 12:00pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    I knew I should have thrown out the office milk on Tuesday!
    
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    August 21, 2021 12:50pm
- MrTips
  
  Tony, you’ll know more than most on this forum, but one can’t help get the feeling the Herald is up to something…….something journalistic almost. They seem to have info before anyone else and even before the govt releases lately.
  
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  August 21, 2021 11:18am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I suspect the Beehive, and the 9th Floor in particular, is about as secure as our border…
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:46am
- Muttonbird
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  It would pay O’Sullivan, Trevett and yourself to remember the success of NZ’s Covid response is born out of high cooperation and compliance. This is born out of expert communication.
  
  You don’t lead with the lockdown announcement because then everyone turns off and doesn’t listen to the important stuff.
  
  This is communication 101, not click-through, and I’m surprised seasoned journalists seem to have no idea about it. I believe they are simply letting their political colours drive this pathetic complaint.
  
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  August 21, 2021 11:29am
  - Cinematic
    
    Haha, ‘everyone turns off and doesn’t listen to the important stuff’
    
    If the ‘stuff’ is so important people wouldn’t ‘turn off’ no? We have an intellectual giant in our midst.
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:44am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I think the PM is about to find out that we are not as compliant in 2021 as we may have been last year. And that’s going to be a rude shock to her.
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:47am
    - Muttonbird
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Well, if so that will be the fault of yourself and your fellow pandemic denying travellers.
      
      Why wouldn’t you want to help keep vulnerable people safe? Oh, that’s right…
      
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      August 21, 2021 12:00pm
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Where have I ever denied the pandemic Muttonbird? I’ve had my vaccinations, and up until now, I have complied with whatever requirements the Government has imposed. In that regard, I’ve been a model citizen!
        
        However, the support of model citizens cannot be taken for granted, if the PM continues to treat us as sheep, or pre-schoolers.
        
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        August 21, 2021 12:45pm
      - Muttonbird
        
        I took your post as it was intended; a threat.
        
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        August 21, 2021 2:01pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        fellow pandemic denying travellers.
        
        I suggest you start reading some of the GD comments on this blog from late January 2020 and you will see a number of us were well aware of the developing pandemic.
        
        https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/01/general_debate_26_january_2020.html#comment-2630434
        
        I was receiving information at that time from Tokyo and from senior folk in the NZ Health Department who were very worried.
        
        The lefty trolls on this blog were adopting our Dear PM’s and WHO’s attitude and ignoring the accumulating evidence for weeks….
        
        remember the date our PM decided to go “early & Hard”?….19th March 2020
        
        bit late in the day for 26 folks, I reckon.
        
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        August 21, 2021 2:13pm
    - Bob
      
      not as compliant in 2021… yes, unfortunately for Adern and fortunately for NZ”s future and that of our Grandchildren; there are still a significant number of us who went through Primary school when READING and COMPREHENSION were still taught as valuable life skills.
      
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      August 21, 2021 12:05pm
  - wilderbeast
    
    Sorry Muttonbird, but “communication 101” has been completely gamed. Also what your saying is what you have to do when you abuse the platform and lose trust. Ardern is circling down the plug hole and it’s all her own fault.
    
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    August 21, 2021 11:59am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Dead right Wilderbeast ; those cutesy PR slogans like “hard and early”, “team of five million” and “be kind” have lost their effectiveness. The latter is particularly so; what’s “kind” about the way Kris Faafoi is keeping migrant families apart?
      
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      August 21, 2021 12:48pm
      - Muttonbird
        
        Charity begins at home, Tony.
        
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        August 21, 2021 1:59pm
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Precisely Martin. Unfortunately, there are hundreds of migrants with two homes. One of them is the one they occupy alone in New Zealand, and the other is the one their partner and children occupy in their home country.
        
        Some of these people have not seen their families since the end of 2019. Would you like to explain to me what’s kind about a government which will not even give these people an indication of a pathway to reunification?
        
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        August 21, 2021 2:52pm
  - Herodotus
    
    May I remind you that covid has evolved unlike our response.
    Was there not a game plan of: covid detected, steps 2,3,…x .
    Why is there no apparent implementation plan ? Did they not think that an out break would require immediate testing and to have appropriate resourcing ?? We are lucky that this is not been Greater Auckland (yet) Sites of interest have not hit Manukau, Rodney, East Ak etc. and with the additional resourcing that would require and that our health service has not had to contend with people that require specialist treatment to any degree. And most likely outbreak would be where ?? Auckland perhaps.
    
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    August 21, 2021 12:02pm
- Harriet
  
  “….Businesses need less podium performance and more facts…”
  
  As I’ve been saying — communication and public value is a graduate subject.
  
  Cindy has always been espousing her undergraduate abilities….. blah blah blah…. and given the intellect of her voting base she is stuck with that.
  As I said at the start of covid — everyone’s house is on the line, there is too much money involved, and money is now running out and the tide is turning…..people need the facts……informed decision making is now critical.
  
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  August 21, 2021 12:10pm
  - Nickc2
    
    I can pretty much guarantee the decision-making announcements but I’m far from convinced they will be informed ones.
    She’s like so many others from the left and in the public arena, put a microphone in their hands and you can’t shut em up.
    
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    August 21, 2021 3:45pm
- Paulus
  
  She cannot bare not to hear her own voice.
  
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  August 21, 2021 2:11pm
I remember when

I guess the Labour government will put out a list of the people who tested positive for covid as the result of people’s actions from the time the first case was announced until lockdown commenced.
How many cases are the result of shopping at supermarkets, fast food outlets, airport crowding, and that last social activity before lockdown.
When and where.
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August 21, 2021 11:06am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Well at least one of the Wellington cases is from a student who decamped from Auckland on Thursday 19th.
  
  Seems bloody strange to let folks travel from a site of infection to areas with no infection.
  
  How difficult would it have been to require everyone wishing to leave Auckland on Wed and Thursday to take a saliva test and a temperature reading?
  
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  August 21, 2021 4:32pm
I remember when

The Telegraph:
Electric Vehicle infrastructure costs in UK:
Estimated cost to install chargers across UK 45.9 Billion Pounds.
Amount needed to reinforce electricity networks 48 Billion Pounds.
A Total Cost of 93.9 Billion Pounds.
Source: Scottish Power/Capital Economics and Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee.
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August 21, 2021 11:15am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Good pickings for Scottish Power in the newly independent Scotland.
  
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  August 21, 2021 12:52pm
I remember when

Commissioner Coster:
“We will do whatever knee ds to be done.”
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August 21, 2021 11:18am
- Harriet
  
  Compliance is the new science.
  
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  August 21, 2021 12:00pm
- kowtow
  
  Arrest protesters , assist road blockers.
  
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  August 21, 2021 12:14pm
Hollyfield

The Herald is focusing on the tough issues today. They have a poll “The 1pm update will be here soon. Who’s your favourite podium performer?”
Options are Jacinda Ardern, Ashley Bloomfield, Chris Hipkins, Grant Robertson.
Since I’m not willing to dignify the poll with a vote, I can’t see who the hot favourite is.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-hilary-barry-among-1000-award-attendees-self-isolating-auckland-university-de-la-salle-college-mcauley-high-school-students-test-positive/357DHBPI46SMA6RJPAF7RZG4CY/
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August 21, 2021 11:20am
- kglm
  
  My favorite is the sign language interpreter.
  
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  August 21, 2021 12:18pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Signing in English or Te Reo?
    
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    August 21, 2021 1:24pm
RW Capitalist

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html
oh dear
I may hate to tell ya….”i told ya so”
but
I TOLD YA SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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August 21, 2021 11:23am
- Gravelroad
  
  Sorry RW – but only Batman can speak with any authority on this forum about US politics.
  Where are you Batman?
  You had plenty to lecture us on about Trump – day after day, after day…on and on.
  A commenter only had to put a semi positive post up about Trump and you were here telling us in no uncertain terms about how wrong and stupid they were.
  Now – nothing about Biden.
  
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  August 21, 2021 12:12pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Trump will be back, MAGA.
    That should attract some attention….
    
    14 3
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    August 21, 2021 12:23pm
  - Bluegrass
    
    C’mon, man.
    
    10 0
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    August 21, 2021 12:45pm
  - kevn
    
    @Gravel…. bat has lost interest now biden is being exposed. As a drongo.
    
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    August 21, 2021 1:35pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  10 point swing in 2 weeks.
  
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  August 21, 2021 1:44pm
curry4me

https://www.bitchute.com/video/F3OZY5-Hrt8/

Spanish Diplomats Saved by Frog Avatar.

Twitter Apu frog account successfully negotiated with the Taliban to secure the safety of diplomats after the Spanish government failed. A frog poster has done more for the people of Afghanistan than Joe Biden. Ranammed Al-Bassad is a hero. #Afghanistan #Kabul #Taliban. [5:37.]
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August 21, 2021 11:34am
curry4me

https://www.bitchute.com/video/eVeIsYLLSTA/

Kabul Joe Doesn’t Want You to See This.

ABC News is being accused of deceptively editing their disastrous interview with Joe Biden to hide his cognitive decline! In this video, we’re going to look at the portion of the interview that wasn’t aired, we’re going to see why so many are questioning the motive behind the edit, …and stick with me to the end of this video where I reveal just how many voters are starting to smell a rat in all of this. [10:29. Small wonder many don’t believe stuff from the MSM.]
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August 21, 2021 11:35am
- Harriet
  
  Orange man 2 really bad.
  
  He talks gibberish and is spoon feed jelly. 😎
  
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  August 21, 2021 11:57am
  - miltonF
    
    I noticed this too. Biden is looking just as “orange” as Trump these days. Yet everyone is quiet? Ease up on the fake tan ya old ghosts.
    
    12 1
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    August 21, 2021 1:12pm
- dcrane
  
  Tucker Carlson covered this yesterday, pretty amazing. Biden confusing both his son Beau’s position in the military and the theatre he served in!
  
  Cued up to the key bit here:
  
  https://youtu.be/zfaHS8Q9lic?t=508
  
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  August 21, 2021 12:10pm
- Nickc2
  
  Yes, if you watched Hannity (Fox News) yesterday, you would have seen Biden stuttering, slurring his words, lying and obfuscating in an unedited version of the interview. The interviewer (a dyed in the wool Democrat) was doing his best to make Biden look good.
  
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  August 21, 2021 3:33pm
wilderbeast

Inconvenient questions:

– Why did the government’s border restrictions fail to prevent Delta’s entry into NZ?

– Given we were constantly told during L4 lockdown in 2020 that our sacrifice would be “worth it” to restore our freedoms, why are we staring down the barrel of the same situation almost 18 months later?

– Why are we the slowest in the OECD to vaccinate?

– Given the Health Minister said it would cost a mere $40m to expedite our vaccine rollout why didn’t we do it when the cost of L4 lockdowns is $200m per day?

– is Delta more infectious and fatal than the first strain?
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August 21, 2021 11:48am
- surfing
  
  Australians were allowed to travel to NZ, and this is seemingly how it arrived.
  
  For the other things, our government is a complete screw up and people are more interested in ensuring someone else is to blame than to just get the system working.
  
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  August 21, 2021 12:04pm
- Ed Snack
  
  Best info we have is that “delta” is at least twice as infectious (R0 around 8-9) but less lethal. Not sure how much less lethal as haven’t seen reliable estimates, but my guess is around 20% as lethal. Though much of the reduction may come from better treatment and a winnowing of the most vulnerable.
  
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  August 21, 2021 12:46pm
oldfella

The ‘Anti Socialist Ardern Group’ page on Facebook has suddenly vanished. Anyone know why? Did FB deep-six them?
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August 21, 2021 11:52am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Seems a new group was created yesterday.
  https://www.facebook.com/groups/519097979167140
  
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  August 21, 2021 12:40pm
- kevn
  
  @old… Instruction will have been given to Fakebook. Delete.
  
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  August 21, 2021 1:33pm
surfing

Been waiting longer than 48 hours now for covid results for 3 people who visited locations of interest in my bubble.

Given they were told the results would be ready between 24-36 hours.

Healthline is a sick joke (200 callers in queue), they don’t have access to results and ask you to call your GP… but, the GP will certainly not have the results, nor are they open today.

We’re just going to assume the results are negative, they would have certainly called if it were positive.No symptoms in any of the three, has been over a week since potential exposure.
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August 21, 2021 12:01pm
kglm

I have just been out for exercise. There are a lot of scared sheep out there. About 70% of people outdoors exercising on their own or in their bubble were masked. The saddest sight were a few people alone and masked in their cars. I am interested to see if this percentage falls over time.
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August 21, 2021 12:15pm
- Tall Man
  
  Shot down to the farm to grab some milk. Counted 7 in the queue at the supermarket and 4 in cars alone wearing a mask.
  
  One numpty in a van, masked but alone, felt that tailgating me all through the 50 k roadworks, then through the single lane 100 k until he could zoom past me at well over 100 kph was less dangerous than not wearing a mask alone in his vehicle. Idiots, be idiots.
  
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  August 21, 2021 1:20pm
- kowtow
  
  I see far fewer folk out exercising than last time.
  
  Quite a few are masked and one couple even made a comment about being masked in case the people they pass were from Auckland.( South Island location)
  
  My conclusion ( totally scientific ) People are even more afraid this time round , due to the Media beat up about how awfully terribly devastatingly deadly the Indian variant is .
  
  Idiots.
  
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  August 21, 2021 1:36pm
wilderbeast

How will Ardern go down in history?

I’m 44 and can barely remember Muldoon, but he certainly cast a shadow across both sides of the aisle. Clark irritated me, but ultimately she was an old fashioned liberal (at least when she was PM), and Key was a pragmatist not an ideologue. The others in my lifetime didn’t hold office for long, but you never felt they were deeply dyed idealogues either. Lange started us down the path of free market reform but lost his nerve, Bolger was a centrist at the end of the day etc. Sure free market reform was a shock, especially to certain industries and people at the bottom, but it had bipartisan support because the state apparatus was so overblown and clunky.

I’m surmising that Ardern is at least the biggest control freak since Muldoon. I grew up with my parents, telling me that state incursion into lives pre 1984 was oppressive. I’m starting to feel like I know what they mean. Once it becomes obvious to more people that the Empress has no clothes and actually wants to reshape the country in a narrow Marxist image, my pick is there will be landslide against her and it may not be far away. I’m being dramatic now but thinking about this I watched the YouTube video of Ceacescu giving his last speech in the balcony in Bucharest during the week.

I firmly believe the current situation is bullshit – the border wasn’t secured; vaccination rates are abysmal; and we’re not being told the truth or what actually matters. It surely can’t last.
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August 21, 2021 12:17pm
- septic skeptic
  
  I thought we would never see a worse PM than Muldoon – but along came Jacinta Ardern. She is doing far more damage than Muldoon, mostly because she has the most useless cabinet we have ever seen by an order of magnitude.
  
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  August 21, 2021 1:33pm
oldfella

The Herald’s vaccination tracker is now buried at the bottom of their main covid story. But as at 19th August (Thursday)
Fully vaccinated: 23.6%
Single dose: 17%
UNVACCINATED: 58.9%
That’s two out of every three Kiwis in Cindy’s ‘team of five million’. Yep!
On the 19th they administered 29.9K jabs.
I’ll let someone else calculate how long it will take to get everyone vaccinated. Not this year is my guess, despite the promises.
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August 21, 2021 12:18pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

https://thebeltwayreport.com/2021/08/biden-team-scrambles-as-new-poll-shows-they-wont-be-around-much-longer/
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August 21, 2021 12:34pm
- Ed Snack
  
  If they can only get to 46% support for Creepy Joe with their highly slanted polling samples, just think of what the real support figure must be like. Probably in the mid 20% range at best.
  
  Biden’s always been a complete and utterly corrupt idiot. More fool those who were gullible enough to swallow the propaganda that he was a suitable person to be president. Of course it’s just a stutter and he doesn’t forget what he is saying all the time because of senility !
  
  Now the Democrats just HAVE to pass their voting bill to enable even more widespread voter fraud or they face getting beaten like a gong in the mid terms next year.
  
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  August 21, 2021 12:52pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    70-80 year olds are generally considered unemployable in high level jobs due to cognitive decline and lack of dexterity with modern technology and other new systems. Yet they are almost exclusively in charge of US (Trump, Biden, Pelosi …).
    
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    August 21, 2021 1:37pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Why is the great Bloomfield and the pink terror not telling us this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZxlMJUazIk&t=47s
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August 21, 2021 12:37pm
- dcrane
  
  FOX news sez uh oh time to go to break.
  
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  August 21, 2021 1:14pm
Rusty

I have noticed just like last year the indignation this Govt has placed on the people in this country during lock downs.

Queues of people lining outside supermarkets having to put up with the cold, rain, and long waits.

Does our PM or Ashley Bloomfield have to experience these inconveniences themselves — I bet not?
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August 21, 2021 12:45pm
Local Miller

And while her majesty keeps us all locked down to save us from the pestilence, and we have to practice social distancing in shops, etc. This morning I stood in the rain for 45 minutes while I waited to get into New World. I’m wondering how many of us who stood there are going to be sick this week!
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August 21, 2021 12:50pm
- Muttonbird
  
  Never heard of umbrellas in Zimbabwe?
  
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  August 21, 2021 1:57pm
  - Local Miller
    
    I’ve no idea, I’ve never been to Zimbabwe. But I do know the sun was shining when I left home this morning. About 1 in 20 people had umbrellas, so a lot of people were caught out.
    
    7 1
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    August 21, 2021 2:46pm
  - alloytoo
    
    Useful in Zimbabwe, utterly useless in NZ where the rain falls every which way but down.
    
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    August 21, 2021 7:17pm
I remember when

We know the figures are not accurate – but no one else is even trying.
Using worldometer totals:
UK population – 68,290,549
Total covid cases – 6,391,833 = 9.3% of population
Total covid deaths 131,373 = .19% of pop.
Total covid cases since 1/3/21 = 2,229,783
Total deaths since 1/3/21 – 8316 = .012% of pop.
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August 21, 2021 12:58pm
- Tall Man
  
  The drop in numbers may be attributed to the fact that many at risk have already died.
  
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  August 21, 2021 1:12pm
- MCos
  
  Approx 80,000 more deaths overall last years than next highest, 2018, which was 10,000 more than next highest.
  Last year about 80,000 covid deaths occurred from April to December. That’s 11% of all deaths for the whole year.
  
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  August 21, 2021 9:15pm
info@cruzpro.com

Her highness kept a few million people waiting 9 minutes today.
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August 21, 2021 1:09pm
- nathie
  
  Nothing of what she said was related to anything important to know, like the numbers of infected people – it was all about “washing your hands” and thanking people type stuff – seriously what’s the point of even having the PM there to waffle?
  
  The “heavy lifting” was done by the Director of Public Health – Caroline McElnay – giving the figures, so why isn’t she (or Bloomfield) handling these press conferences on their own?
  
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  August 21, 2021 1:24pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    1) You electioneer at every opportunity
    2) You can immediately correct any “misinformation” Bloomers or McE’s have just provided.
    
    3 1
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    August 21, 2021 4:07pm
- wilderbeast
  
  9 mins…and then the irrelevant BS….
  
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  August 21, 2021 1:27pm
- nathie
  
  Lol first journo to be asked by Dear Leader to ask a question (finally at 1.29pm) was … “Jessica”!
  
  Expect “Tova” to be the first journo tomorrow … then back to “Jessica” the next day!
  
  (“Barry” as in Soper, need not ask as has been “cancelled”)!
  
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  August 21, 2021 1:30pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Tova had her turn yesterday. Who’se the RNZ lackey?
    
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    August 21, 2021 4:33pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Reporter questions are scripted, so are the answers
  
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  August 21, 2021 1:30pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    Of course. It’s the Ash and Cinders show. It’s theatre – not a press conference.
    
    17 3
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    August 21, 2021 1:35pm
- Paulus
  
  Part of her way of showing who is in charge !
  
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  August 21, 2021 2:14pm
Manu-Rau

From the “Whatever Was He Thinking?” file. Radio NZ reporter, Ben Strang describes being ‘attacked at an anti-lockdown rally:

“Wearing an RNZ jacket and my trusty black face mask – and armed with an RNZ flagged microphone – I greeted people as I always do, by telling them I was an RNZ reporter.”

Surely he could have said something less offensive, like “I’m a paedophile” or “I love kiddy porn.”
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August 21, 2021 1:27pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  I had a chap approach me during one of the breaks at the National Party conference, with a RNZ microphone and a similar request; no mask though. I politely declined his request to answer a few questions 😀
  
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  August 21, 2021 2:46pm
Nickc2

Lockdown Aust style – humour.
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2021/08/tourism-transportation-to-penal-servitude-in-australia.html
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August 21, 2021 1:28pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Did I just hear right? Banking transactions being monitored to see if you scanned the QR code?
8 2
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August 21, 2021 1:38pm
- kevn
  
  @SteveO… Just seems to have slipped out of ‘her’ so easily. Yep, you will be interrogated several times. Socialism at play.
  
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  August 21, 2021 2:00pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    So she did say that?
    
    4 1
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    August 21, 2021 2:36pm
    - kevn
      
      @SteveO… Yes, I was listening not watching so not distracted by the theatre.
      If you are ‘person of interest’ in the quest for tracking. Quiz time.
      
      1 1
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      August 21, 2021 2:56pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Cheers. Breach of privacy to do this??
        
        2 1
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        August 21, 2021 3:23pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Still unsure. Went to PacknSave yesterday coz Glenfield is closed. Did not scan coz I do not have the app.
  
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  August 21, 2021 2:01pm
  - alloytoo
    
    Likewise.
    
    3 0
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    August 21, 2021 7:20pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Me too,
    
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    August 22, 2021 2:34am
Nickc2

Reuters reports:
The FBI has found scant evidence that the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol was the result of an organized plot to overturn the presidential election result, according to four current and former law enforcement officials.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/08/20/report-fbi-finds-little-evidence-capitol-riot-was-insurrection-or-led-by-trump/
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August 21, 2021 1:42pm
- dcrane
  
  Yet another massive state narrative collapses.
  
  The FBI is trying to avert investigation into whether their own agents or contacts encouraged or facilitated the events of that day.
  
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  August 21, 2021 2:40pm
  - MCos
    
    Merely an amiable crowd of enthusiastic tourists.
    
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    August 21, 2021 8:51pm
Stu2

Now two flights from Auck->Wgtn in the locations of interest, but neither airport

You could get as close to people in an airport as a supermarket, wonder what the logic is
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August 21, 2021 1:45pm
- PeeJay
  
  the cynic in me wonders who was there at the airport at the same time.
  
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  August 21, 2021 2:45pm
Durden

NZ Police is so cools.

https://twitter.com/nzpolice/status/1428127007410311169

/s
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August 21, 2021 1:46pm
- krazykiwi
  
  That is astoundingly childish from the plod. Refer my 1:46pm comment below
  
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  August 21, 2021 1:56pm
krazykiwi

Mrs kk and I are just back from a bike ride. Glorious day in Wellington. Lots of people out. Observations:

– Really surprised by the number of people wearing masks walking a riding. Utter madness

– More cars on the road

– Saw that teddy bear on a noose in the window

– Saw some graffiti: Pfizer Criminals

– Lots of people scurrying across the road to avoid other pedestrians. One time a car had to brake hard to avoid someone doing just that

The one thing that pissed me off was seeing three masked cops walk up to a hilltop skate park where 4 teens were practicing jumps and sitting in the sun. They told them to leave and go home.
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August 21, 2021 1:46pm
- Durden
  
  I am finding masking when in the open excessive too.
  
  And people seem to look at you sideways even if you walking on the road out in the open. Could lead to unnecessary disagreements.
  
  Masking advice is conflicting because politicians are being loose with language. Examples.
  
  “Anita Baker – Mayor of Porirua City
  The Delta variant of Covid-19 is highly transmissible so it’s important that we wear face coverings if you do leave your home for personal movement.”
  
  Jacinda herself.
  “Ardern said physical distancing was even more important given how easily Delta can be transmitted – including through the air. “Please wear a mask when leaving the house.”
  
  And reporting on a PMs presser.
  “The Government has announced face masks will be mandatory for people over the age of 12 when accessing essential services.
  
  Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said from 11.59pm on Wednesday staff and customers must wear masks at essential services, such as supermarkets, pharmacies, dairies and service stations.
  
  Masks must also now be worn at bus terminals and in taxis.”
  
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  August 21, 2021 2:07pm
- surfing
  
  Those cops exceeded their authority, bully boys.
  
  Probably having a laugh.
  
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  August 21, 2021 3:05pm
Stu2

MoH website case numbers last updated 1pm Friday – should be done while the press conference is happening
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August 21, 2021 1:50pm
kevn

@kk… Yes, a great public relations exercise from police.
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August 21, 2021 2:02pm
Hugh Jarse

A few randomly thoughts on the 1.00pm sermons.

Why does she have to keep her serfs waiting for her appearance every time.

Most of the population is over 5 years of age, please talk to us in the vein.

Does the PM’s sign language mean we don’t need the official sign language people or is she just confusing the deaf ?

Do we have to have the facial histrionics, unbelievable and makes her unwatchable for me.

The BS that precedes anything relevant is just ridiculous. Easier to just monitor the “breaking news” bits.

Why are the media there, they do not add any value at all. It’s very clear the media have submitted their questions for review ahead of time.

Who infected Case A ?

How did the virus get from the Sydney person in isolation to whoever infected case A.

Is the NSW strain the same strain the UN worker from Fiji has ?
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August 21, 2021 2:04pm
- PeeJay
  
  Why does she have to keep her serfs waiting for her appearance every time?
  
  Because she bloody loves this. It’s all so terribly exciting – her people all glued to the the TV hanging on her every word. Marvellous. It’s all she can do not to giggle!
  
  I swear if her polls go up after yet another blunder at the border, I will truly despair of the intelligence of the average kiwi!
  
  They had two jobs really. Keep the border secure – FAIL – and get everyone vaccinated – EPIC FAIL!
  
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  August 21, 2021 2:23pm
barnacle bill

Re HJ
you ask-
Why does she have to keep her serfs waiting for her appearance every time.

The world dose not revolve around you.
Covid 19 does not wait for a time to suit you either.
As Jacinda has said many times, this is a fast moving situation and they need to get that information correct.
Why don’t you go live in Sydney, then you would really have some thing to moan about.
825 new cases today in Sydney alone.

Please give credit when and where it is due.
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August 21, 2021 2:23pm
- Tall Man
  
  Yep, cindy personally stood at the border and thwarted that nasty covid bug .. a bug so severe that 99% have to be tested to see if they’ve got it …. Oh wait, it didn’t work did it.
  
  Perhaps she spent too much time working on the frowny face instead of actually working ….
  
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  August 21, 2021 2:32pm
  - barnacle bill
    
    Admit it TM, you just hate it that Jacinda is a female who happens too be our PM.
    And a Labour one at that.
    
    You are nothing except a sexist old bore.
    
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    August 21, 2021 2:52pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      TM is not the only old boar here. I subscribe to that.
      Btw, yo can not speel
      
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      August 21, 2021 3:54pm
    - westernScientest
      
      reeee barnacle bill is a [deleted], assuming that the PM is inferior because she is female tut tut. The rest of use dont think like that, and criticise MPs on actions rather than gender
      
      [If you want to keep posting here, leave out the abuse. Mod.]
      
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      August 21, 2021 5:34pm
      - westernScientest
        
        sorry mod, noted, sarcasm to point out the ironey of the exchange above.
        
        3 1
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        August 21, 2021 6:44pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Didn’t like lange either, was he a sheila as well?
      
      How about cunliffe … yeah well you might be right about that one ….
      
      3 1
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      August 21, 2021 5:53pm
    - lifesgood
      
      Oh, look a Jacinda fan boy has put in an appearance. Poor dumb bugger.
      
      5 1
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      August 21, 2021 6:19pm
- kevn
  
  @barney… Bloomfield hasn’t bother with the jab but expects the plebs to just rock up and ‘play the game’.
  Strange, I’m sure you would agree.
  
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  August 21, 2021 2:52pm
  - barnacle bill
    
    If Bloomfield had a jab, you would be moaning that he jumped the cue..
    
    Strange, I’m sure you would agree.
    
    3 13
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    August 21, 2021 3:04pm
    - kevn
      
      @Barn… queue. Bloomfield must consider himself a non essential worker or is waiting for the NovaVax.
      What other strange reason do you think he might have? Do as I say not what I do etc
      The covid queen does hog most podium time, so maybe he is better in the backroom. Unjabbed but active with the hand sanitizer.
      
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      August 21, 2021 3:52pm
- PeeJay
  
  Credit is due, absolutely. Congratulations for securing the border……erm….oopsie, my bad!
  
  How about congratulations for the stunning success of the vaccination programme…..erm, see above.
  
  A prime minster who is obviously so disorganised she cannot make a 1pm appointment on time and convey the requisite information in a professional and timeous manner is someone you think deserves credit. Says more about you than HJ I think!
  
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  August 21, 2021 2:55pm
  - barnacle bill
    
    [Deleted – what we don’t want is just your abuse. Mod.]
    
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    August 21, 2021 3:27pm
    - kevn
      
      @barney… Breaking news. Apparently Bloomfield is having the jab very soon. Televised? I wonder.
      The labour polling must have indicated some disquiet amongst the plebs. So must act.
      You will be pleased.
      
      4 1
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      August 21, 2021 4:52pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  I don’t know how many people tune in to watch Jacinda on the TV at 1:00 pm each day but it must be a large number. So why does Jacjnda show up late every day? That’s just rude and disrespectful.
  
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  August 21, 2021 3:03pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    It adds to the drama and ensures that viewer numbers have time to peak. She needs to be seen to make an entrance.
    
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    August 21, 2021 3:13pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Entrance and sanitise hands twice for the cameras
      
      6 2
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      August 21, 2021 3:51pm
- septic skeptic
  
  BB – LOL. Just give it time.
  
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  August 21, 2021 3:14pm
- Hugh Jarse
  
  Hi Bill, if you are okay with being totally disrespected every day along with several million other NZ’ers, good for you. Personally I believe it either is disorganisation or game playing. The fast moving excuse is BS. If that was true there never would be a 1.00pm media event because the facts would never settle enough to deliver. Just set a time in the sand and work off that. Anyhow keep believing.
  
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  August 21, 2021 3:57pm
- herb1
  
  If Ardern ever deserves credit I’m sure he will.
  
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  August 21, 2021 4:06pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  this is a fast moving situation and they need to get that information correct.
  
  I’d believe your theory if she was late occasionally… but it’s her usual mode.
  Arrogant and disorganised.
  
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  August 21, 2021 7:29pm
surfing

Neighbours who decide to do construction during lockdown…. they suck the most… how to get revenge on these f****kers?
3 0
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August 21, 2021 3:00pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Do some maintenance on your outboard. It needs revving out to blow out the cobwebs
  
  7 1
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  August 21, 2021 3:15pm
  - kevn
    
    @SteveO… Pretend you have been fishing so need to flush ‘er out. Makes lawnmowers sound tame.
    
    3 0
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    August 21, 2021 3:55pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Especially a rowdy 2-stroke. Unfortunately I have a Suzuki 140 4- stroke
      
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      August 22, 2021 8:14am
  - westernScientest
    
    haha the guy a house or two down starts his bike up a couple times a day and revs it for a few minutes. Dont know if he is working on it or what, doesnt go for a ride or anything either. I kind of like it, at least people are doing something useful rather than just cowering under the bed with a mask on.
    
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    August 21, 2021 5:30pm
- nathie
  
  Get out your Kango and go for it?
  
  (Or maybe get a band going like these guys … who used to use kango hammers as musical instruments when playing live)??!!!
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH-_bsCwdRw
  
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  August 21, 2021 3:20pm
- Tall Man
  
  Be kind 😉
  
  In our defense, the weather is great and power tools are very manly ….
  
  3 1
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  August 21, 2021 5:50pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

ONE FOR HISTORY BUFFS THAT I BET YOU DID NOT KNOW
In 1975, President Ford was left to manage the difficult ending of the Vietnam War. President Ford went to Congress for a relief package to allow American personnel and our allies to evacuate. However, there was ONE US SENATOR who opposed any such support. The result was the embarrassing and hurried evacuation from the roof of the American embassy in Saigon
This senator reveled in the embarrassment and did everything he could to leverage it politically against Ford. Despite the efforts of this U.S. Senator–President Ford managed to rescue 1,500 South Vietnamese allies prior to the country’s fall. Had President Ford not acted quickly, these people would have been targeted and slaughtered for their support for America . When they arrived in America , President Ford asked Congress for a package to assist these refugees to integrate into American society.
That SAME troublesome SENATOR TORPEDOED ANY SUPPORT for these shell shocked, anti-communist, Americans and our helpers, the refugees.
Instead, President Ford had to recruit Christian organizations to offer assistance on a voluntary basis. As he did so, the Senator belittled those efforts. What kind of person would oppose President Ford’s tireless work to do the right and humanitarian thing? Who would want to play politics with the well-being of innocent people who stood by America in the tragic Vietnam War?
THAT SENATOR WAS JOE BIDEN
From the book – “When the Center Held.” by Donald Rumsfeld in 2018.(biography)
… spread it far and wide!
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August 21, 2021 3:04pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Mork calling Orson, come in Orson
  
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  August 21, 2021 3:06pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Pack your shit Joe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDh108owpKg
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August 21, 2021 3:11pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Bloody Real Estate Agents. Now we are all home they are like flies on shit. Just had the 5th call in 3 days asking if I want to sell. So I swear at them. “No need to swear Sir” Well “No need to ring, fuck off!”
Thing is my landline is unlisted. Also a reason why I will not use my own name when signing in under Covid. I have seen people taking pictures of the sign in book.
Rant over, fuck them!
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August 21, 2021 3:27pm
- MCos
  
  There’s plenty of places phone numbers can be obtained.
  If you’ve ever written your number on a form somewhere, for example a petition, an application for a loyalty card, courier service, there’s a good chance the details will be on a list that’s be sold or hacked by someone.
  
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  August 21, 2021 4:37pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I do not let that number out, had it for40 years. Estate Agents are low life scum and not to be trusted
    
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    August 22, 2021 8:18am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

My friend told me about a home Covid test. I’m gonna share it with you, it could save your life.
Open a can of beer. Now what you do is you smell it … then you taste it.
If you can smell it and taste it you don’t have Covid 19. Last night I did this test 19 times – they all came back negative.
Tonight I’m gonna do the test again coz I woke up with a headache and I might be coming down with something. Bit nervous …
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August 21, 2021 4:02pm
- cmm
  
  Steve, thank you for pushing the boundaries of knowledge for us but I think you need to make this a bit more scientific.
  
  For that you need proper A/B testing. May I suggest you try two different brands of beer. No, the brand names do not need to start with A and B.
  
  You can then up the science by making this a randomised experiment: randomly drink from one can then the other.
  
  Then you should also do a blind test. Get blind drunk.
  
  The golden standard is a double blind experiment, but I suggest deferring that for the next round of experiments.
  
  Remember that when you write this up it is important to use the correct scientific terminology. It is easy to tell the difference between a professional scientific paper and an amateur effort. All properly written conclusions have a sentence that goes something like: “The results shown here are promising, but more research is required.”
  
  That also gives you an opportunity to follow up with that double blind testing.
  
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  August 21, 2021 4:17pm
  - dcrane
    
    Make sure you have the paper peer-reviewed by some like-minded professional buddies from the club too.
    
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    August 21, 2021 4:31pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Brilliant! I’m up for an experiment or two.
    
    7 1
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    August 21, 2021 4:55pm
    - kevn
      
      @kk and cmm… Good chance to get together and sort things while we try the new test format 🙂
      
      3 0
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      August 21, 2021 5:02pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Blind drunk it is. So we have fizzy piss, Sella, Macs, Crown Royal (at last) Jacks, Chinese Moutai and Zhen Hou Chiu or something, then some old stock Glava, ohh then 86% Absinthe.
    That is just the stuff I can see at the front of the cabinet.
    Double blind tomorrow maybe – the spa pool beconds
    
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    August 21, 2021 5:38pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Stella* stella ffs. Picked up 5 x 24 yesterday
      
      4 1
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      August 21, 2021 5:39pm
    - Tauhei Notts
      
      Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder.
      
      2 0
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      August 21, 2021 8:01pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        It does far more than that
        
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        August 22, 2021 8:21am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    You fools…you have overlooked the effect of climate change on the taste of your beer.
    
    https://news.ncsu.edu/2020/08/climate-change-is-changing-beer/#:~:text=A%202018%20report%20in%20Nature,of%20beer%20will%20change%20too.
    
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    August 21, 2021 6:18pm
- westernScientest
  
  seems dubious for it to only work with beer… better break the scotch out to be sure.
  
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  August 21, 2021 5:27pm
CAKE FACE1

Baker, Hendy, Pinky, Skegg.

All are Zero Covid nut jobs.

All want the borders to stay closed – forever.

All want the imposition of lockdowns, whenever Covid cases are above zero.

In my view, these people should no longer be described as “experts”.

These people should be described correctly as “crackpots” or “conspiracy theorists”.

It is their fault, that they lose any say on policy.

They abandoned the sciences, to become conspiracy theorists.

They should be shunned by all mainstream media in future.
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August 21, 2021 4:04pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  $110M in the arse pocket will never get you shunned.
  More MONEY is coming soon before the Election, mark my words
  
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  August 21, 2021 5:00pm
  - CAKE FACE1
    
    CAKE marks your words at 10 / 10 for correctness, but finds it sad…
    
    6 2
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    August 21, 2021 5:02pm
- westernScientest
  
  all will do anything to get their face in the paper one more time.
  
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  August 21, 2021 5:25pm
MrTips

Just a shout out…….

to the folk in the primary sector, agricultural/horticultural/tradies and medical, who the govt appear to hate and/or ignore their pleas for assistance, a break from regulations and just some support for their already overburdened lives.

You folk are having to keep working your butts off during lockdown and keep this country afloat. The population know what you do and appreciate it, even if this govt won’t.

Kia kaha and know you are valued by city slickers like moi. Uptick if you agree.
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August 21, 2021 4:29pm
- kevn
  
  @Mr T… Our daughter is a hard working nurse, now working even harder and longer, in short staffed wards as she sees workmates head off to Aussie. Tries to keep upbeat.
  While little fiddles around pretending he has the solution to the super dragged out pay dispute.
  
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  August 21, 2021 5:32pm
curry4me

[ I saw this on a FB page I visit daily, and thought some might be interested in the idea. Beats teddy bears.]

Gumboot Friday
19 August at 10:48 ·
Last lockdown, we kept our communities involved by placing teddy bears on our windows for neighbours and those on their daily walks. Lets continue to support others from afar by placing our gumboots somewhere that can be seen!
Gumboots are used as a symbol because for someone that’s walking through depression, it feels like they’re walking through mud. That’s why we wear our gumboots to walk alongside our loved ones.
Jezamine came up with this beautiful idea to support those children and families out there who are struggling with their mental health.
So let’s all get involved! Put a Gumboot on your window, and tag us in your photos so we can still encourage those vulnerable conversations especially in a time like this.
Stay safe ?
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August 21, 2021 4:31pm
Grizz

Just seen some footage of Melbourne freedom protests. The protests were peace ful. Then the police blanket pepper sprayed the crowd. The crowd then start antipolice chants. The the police fired rubber bullets into the crowd. It’s this unnecessary police behavior that annoys me about these lockdowns.

People are frustrated. No one is listening to alternative points of view. It’s not necessarily about vaccines. It’s about disruptions to civil liberties. Governments will not debate different opinions. Newspapers will not publish their letters to the editor. Social media and YouTube cancel them. They have to break the law to have their voices heard and when they do they get violently assaulted by the police.

This crowd was not rioting. It was not looting. It was peaceful. That only changed when the police became aggressive. They should have stood back and allowed it to disperse naturally.

I wonder how our police will act in a similar situation. If our lockdown continues for weeks people are going to rise up and it will not be anti- vaxers and 5G conspiracy theorists. Especially if you live in a covid free area.
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August 21, 2021 4:34pm
- Harriet
  
  As I said well up the post everyone should just throw their Undies out Mundie – just throw them and old socks out on the street Sunday night – or in front of you neighbour’s house if you are embarrassed for some reason.
  
  Police will then understand it’s about science and not compliance for most people, and society should just get on with living with covid.
  
  Cindy and the priemiers are just going along with the ‘experts’ and making it up along the way with a ‘zero death’ policy — something the police themselves never bother with regards traffic and criminal matters.
  
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  August 21, 2021 5:47pm
I remember when

Moonee Valley, Victoria, and Eagle Farm, Queensland, races today.
No races in New Zealand.
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August 21, 2021 4:50pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Race to the spa pool – outside stainless fridge, full up
  
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  August 21, 2021 5:41pm
  - kevn
    
    @SteveO… BYO as well, thanking a generous host.
    
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    August 21, 2021 6:25pm
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTION…

Now that the ISIS bride and her sprogs are safely tucked up in MIQ for the next 14 days…..should me be concerned about the 5th of September going forward?

The PM has stated that “The safety of all New Zealanders is paramount”
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August 21, 2021 5:47pm
dcrane

Actual vandals spray-paint city structures nightly and the media gives it the innocuous term “tagging”. Then someone pokes fun at Devonport by hanging a sheet over a public sign and the media calls it “vandalism”.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-vandal-dubs-devonport-deltaport/2QZ6EJYLSDFSAWWV75FIX6EYUU/
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August 21, 2021 6:18pm
Ian Boag

Let’s suppose we relax and just let cases happen. Open the borders and all that. End up with say 300 cases per day.

It’s a bit hard to find a simple number for case hospitalisation rates, but I will go with 5%. I forget where I saw it and I am open to correction from anyone with better info. %ages are are age dependent too, but that doesn’t really matter – if an ICU bed is full an ICU bed is full ….

300 cases/day means 15 headed for hospital/day. 6000/year. Assume each one needs a week in an ICU bed. That’s a bit over 100 ICU beds tied up give or take a bit. NZ has a total of about 200 ICU beds give or take a bit.

ICU beds are used for accidents, serious illness and post-op treatment. Guess which will suffer most if we throw a whole lot of covid sickies at the system …

The only paths out of these sad numbers are vaccination and/or isolation (lockdown). We are behind the vax 8-ball, but to me it makes sense that we keep doing it until we have most of the country vaxed. Feed people ivermectin or HCQ or vitamin D or zinc instead of vaccination if it makes you/them feel better …
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August 21, 2021 7:05pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Your 5% is likely a little heavy. The UK hospitalisation rate in the week ended 18Aug is ~2.7%. The higher vaccination rate would help this. Don’t have the stats bandwidth to do a like-for-like comparison.
  
  And why would you “Assume each one needs a week in an ICU bed”? The vast majority of hospitalisation don’t go anywhere near a critical care bed.
  
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  August 21, 2021 7:10pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    The vast majority of hospitalisation …
    
    I guess we don’t know here given that we have had diddly-poo covid hospitalisations to date. What do you think the figure (% covid hospitalisations that end up in ICU) might be?
    
    Bearing in mind that anyone hospitalised has acute viral pneumonia … hard to imagine they wouldn’t be in an ICU bed. I freely admit to not being a medical expert ….
    
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    August 21, 2021 7:18pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Neither am I. I’m primarily data-hound and researcher, but not a statistician. Need the latter for what you’re asking. I suggest that 2.7% could become 4% once allowing for lower vaccination rate, and much lower seropositivity in our population.
      
      Re the beds, the consensus range from looking at a few studies is around this is somewhere between 40 and 55% of beds will be critical care. The caveat is that over a total hospital stay a patient is likely to occupy a standard bed for some or most of their stay, while only some of these will move to critical care.
      
      This is once data source from NHI. The categorizations of standard vs critical care beds is different, making ratios hard to calculate.
      
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      August 21, 2021 7:38pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      So, to be clear, my ‘vast majority’ assertion was incorrect. Never go with gut feel when the real data is just 10 minutes research away!
      
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      August 21, 2021 7:45pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    If we do any version of the sums with the current NSW figures (similar population to NZ) of 800 cases/day the probable ICU bed numbers look pretty awful no matter how you slice them ….
    
    By world standards we don’t have a lot.
    
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    August 21, 2021 7:24pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Agreed. Our critical care beds have been dropping in absolute numbers (and worse when adjusted per 100,000) for many years. It’s not just the beds. A friend of mine is a surgeon at Christchurch hospital. His comment was that NZ is short of ICU beds, but we don’t have the staff to operate the ones we do have.
      
      And you now what? The top vocation of NZers trying to get back into NZ* via a broken MIQ system is.. you guessed it .. nurse!
      
      *based on Aug20-Jan21 data
      
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      August 21, 2021 7:43pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        So looking at all this – your/my various numbers all look pretty grim for ICU beds. What does that say about “relax everything and let it just happen” …. ?
        
        3 3
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        August 21, 2021 7:52pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Step 1. Allow medical staff, particularly those with Covid-19 treatment experience back into New Zealand. They’re out there, clicking refresh on the MIQ website right now.
        
        Step 2. Double the number of ICU beds in 10 weeks. It’s possible. NSW did it (actually is it was closer to +50%)
        
        What do you reckon? Can our government organise this? They’ve had 18 months to plan for it. Let’s do this!
        
        4 1
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        August 21, 2021 8:15pm
      - Stu2
        
        Double ICU beds?
        
        Beds aren’t the issue, it’s the specialist teams to look after ventilated or other seriously ill patients
        
        We may have lost some of those nurses, due to Faafoi stuffing about on reuniting their families.
        
        And aussie offering a lot more pay.
        
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        August 21, 2021 10:03pm
- Stu2
  
  The part of this that won’t work at the moment is 300 a day – with low vaccination rates 300 would ramp up to 1000s quickly
  
  NSW has gone from the 200s a day to 600s to 800s quickly. No sign of stopping yet despite frantic vaccinating
  
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  August 21, 2021 7:42pm
- dcrane
  
  Part of the problem here is the “relax everything” framing. We can decide zero covid is unworkable and try to live with the virus while also working hard to stop the spread.
  
  It seems to me that although hospital systems have often been badly pressured in various places, we have yet to see collapse of any western medical system as a result of covid. People tend to hunker down on their own when infection rates go way up locally.
  
  That being said, wouldn’t it be nice if the government had run a competent vaccine process to date. We would have better options.
  
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  August 21, 2021 8:05pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    try to live with the virus while also working hard to stop the spread
    
    You mean some “isolation” otherwise described as “lockdown” … ?
    
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    August 21, 2021 8:17pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    What most lockdown advocates fail to recognise is that populations self-modify contact and risk behaviour when given the right information. From an epidemiological perspective it’s not lockdown vs pre-disease normal life. Google’s social mobility data shows this.
    
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    August 21, 2021 9:34pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Re collapse look at Lombardy, arguably where the outbreak first attracted excited media attention in February 2020. What wasn’t explained was that their Legionnaire disease afflicted hospitals routinely had crises each year there was a modest uptick in respiratory illnesses. So collapse? Sure, but BAU it was.
    
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    August 21, 2021 9:41pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      And that was alpha … ditto for New York.
      
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      August 22, 2021 9:43am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Why would you go to a Hospital with a bad cold??
  Delta may be contagious, but it won’t hurt you
  
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  August 22, 2021 8:27am
  - Ian Boag
    
    You go to hospital with viral pneumonia ….
    
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    August 22, 2021 9:42am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Been there done that
      
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      August 22, 2021 12:17pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Gisborne’s respiratory specialist doctor is stuck in Queenstown.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/126144960/stranded-in-paradise-doctor-stuck-in-queenstown-after-four-flights-cancelled

As a lung specialist, Brown said he was concerned about not being back in the Tairāwhiti community, where he lived and worked, to help if Covid-19 cases popped up.

.A spokeswoman for the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet said the window to travel home for the lockdown had closed.

Thanks Jacinda.
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August 21, 2021 7:46pm
- MrTips
  
  He’s essential. Can’t he drive, small plane to Gizzie?
  Surely something can be worked out?
  
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  August 21, 2021 8:00pm
Scooter

Cindy’s display of hand sanitizing at the podium of untruth, was quite creepy and bizaare. Does she do that when she walks into every room? Maybe next she’ll walk in in a hazmat suit, after all she likes dress up.
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August 21, 2021 9:17pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Only does it when the cameras are rolling
  
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  August 22, 2021 8:30am
dcrane

Guy’s got a point:

https://twitter.com/michaelmalice/status/1428050950200119303
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August 21, 2021 9:52pm

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