General Debate 01 September 2021

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Happychappy

Just a thought about Jacinda Ardern our Prime Minister and her cry baby tactics over National and Act not approving of her plan of not having Parliament live. Knowing how devious and dangerous she is with twisting the facts to suit her and Labours agenda, who would be surprised if the Prime Minister arranged to have her support partners reject returning to Parliament and Question time to help make her case than it was against her wishes and disappointing.
This was just another excuse to give the media the bullets to fire against the two main opposition parties and right on cue our corrupt media outlets did exactly what there master laid out .
Democracy has gone out the window if you are anyone that disagrees with our Prime Minister and Government it’s all about bribing and lying to the public to achieve their own political agenda not what New Zealander’s want or need it’s what Jacinda wants.
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September 1, 2021 8:00am
- Tony Stuart
  
  As Speaker of the House, Trevor Mallard has had more than a year to trial solutions to run Parliament virtually. After all, it’s not as though the possibility of a Level Four lockdown hasn’t loomed over us throughout that period. Zoom might work for select committees as it did for the Epidemic Response Committee early last year, where there are groups of 10-15 people. A full Parliament of 120 people is a different beast again, and would require a degree of skill to chair an open session. Does Mallard has that skill, and has he even experimented?
  
  Parliament is far too important to be turned into a shambles by having a partisan Speaker like Mallard controlling the Mute button . Throughout the last year, Mallard should have been working with senior MP’s, e.g. members of the Business Committee, to trial a platform that would allow Parliament to function remotely.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:21am
  - Cinematic
    
    If an Olympic Games can run parliament can run. This is the sort of one liner JC should deliver. Too often she pontificates or uses silly examples like tv shows no one watches.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:38am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Why is Mallard still speaker?
    
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    September 1, 2021 6:42pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  Did anyone notice Cindy put on her mask after each question from Judith Collins and David Seymour? She does not do that at he 1 pm sermon.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:29am
  - lifesgood
    
    Bloody nonsense. They are 5 metres apart. Show pony.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:38am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Ah, but now Trevor has learnt that the virus is transmitted via aerosols .. and ordered 5m distancing in Parliament…PM can’t take any chances….
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/126232900/mps-attending-parliament-in-alert-level-4-will-have-to-social-distance-by-5-metres
    
    wonder why the 5m social distancing rule hasn’t been mandated for aeroplanes, buses, shopping queues, vaccination queues?
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:45am
    - graham
      
      Or indeed, why the official Government Covid website states that for businesses operating at Alert Level 3, employees only have to keep 1 metre apart.
      
      https://covid19.govt.nz/business-and-money/businesses/operating-safely/doing-business-at-alert-level-3/#keeping-employees-and-customers-safe
      
      My word, the man’s an officious little fool.
      
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      September 1, 2021 10:03am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Ahh, but don’t forget that in another attempt to vilify and show contempt for Collins, thay have decreed that “Collins has bought Level 4 with her” since she came from Auckland, so Parliament is now in Level 4.
        
        Collins deserves a medal for wading through the crap they throw at her, and I greatly enjoyed seeing her spark up against that nasty little twat on Breakfast this morning. More please!
        
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        September 1, 2021 2:18pm
    - Ruawai
      
      Some animals are more important than others and need protecting! Jacinda is the most important animal, Trevor must protect her. Although I notice the sign language person is always close to Jacinda and they don’t wear a mask and neither does Jacinda, so no consistency in the rules.
      
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      September 1, 2021 10:55am
      - JibberJabber
        
        [Deleted – it is not cool to be making fun of public servants based on their physical attributes. Mod.]
        
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        September 1, 2021 2:56pm
    - Spoff
      
      Interesting point. I too have wondered at the inconsistency shown.
      Mind you, I also wonder why it is that after thousands gather in Paris, London and Australia during protests, closely mingling sans mask and probably sans vax, there is not a major outbreak?
      https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/thousands-protest-covid-19-restrictions-in-central-london-1.5121472
      Maybe I’m just a wonder-full person.
      
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      September 1, 2021 2:57pm
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    The time takes her to take off her mask gives her a little more time to come up with a response.
    
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    September 1, 2021 1:09pm
- septic skeptic
  
  I don’t think the watermelons and the apartheid party are in cahoots with Jacinta on parliament sitting. I reckon they are just lazy and would prefer to sit at home bingeing Netflix like most ,of the public service.
  
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  September 1, 2021 10:45am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Indeed..
    Why should any member of the Greens or Maori Party receive salary for the days they are absent?
    
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    September 1, 2021 11:03am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Why should any member of the Greens or Maori Party receive salary for the days they are there?
      
      The Chief Gunt has by her own admission done nothing with her portfolios, and the two race separatists greatly improve both the look and decorum of Parliament by their absence.
      
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      September 1, 2021 2:22pm
  - Bob
    
    Why report for work, when you can lie on the couch at home and still draw a salary that no intelligent business manager would ever consider paying you.
    
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    September 1, 2021 11:35am
  - namron
    
    Every time Miss Ardern opens her mouth, it starts up her hand waving all over the place.
    I thought it was her attempt at sign language for those needing it, but I’ve decided she must be making lots of spelling mistakes
    eg bin for been, somethink, particulee
    bedda for better twenny for twenty etc
    So perhaps her hand flopping is correct for her pronunciation!!
    
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    September 1, 2021 1:07pm
    - Nickc2
      
      She is talking to her constituents in a language they all speak and understand. … [Deleted – generalised racism not acceptable. Mod]
      
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      September 1, 2021 2:26pm
- surfing
  
  The problem I have with kiwiblog is that this post received 65 upticks.
  
  You’ll never learn unless you understand the other side of the argument, this is the converted preaching to the converted.
  
  Personally, I don’t think that many people give a rats that parliament is temporarily suspended. Judith Collins can hold labour to account through the media.
  
  Question time is usually a circus, speaker is crap, and the participants are so woke so you can’t call a spade a spade.
  
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  September 1, 2021 11:11am
  - Bob
    
    Judith Collins can hold labour to account through the media……
    Surfing,…. there is no way that the media are going to report anything derogatory about their beloved ADERN and her politburo, especially if it is a comment from Collins or any other National Party Spokesman!
    
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    September 1, 2021 11:37am
  - Geoff1
    
    Surfing
    You may be correct that not many people give a rats that parliament is temporarily suspended.
    However you are incorrect that Judith Collins can hold labour to account through the media. If you haven’t noticed the media only reports Judith in the negative, reports only part(s) of her comment(s) in order to take them out of context.
    Thereby fulfilling their obligation under the $55 million bribe.
    https://mch.govt.nz/media-sector-support/journalism-fund
    
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    September 1, 2021 12:12pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    “Judith Collins can hold labour to account through the media.”
    
    Surely you jest. The only thing that the media want of Judith is to carry their load of put -downs, ridicules & lies.
    
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    September 1, 2021 12:24pm
  - gravedodger
    
    Terrific theory surfing, but a theory that is totally irrelevant when almost the entire Media, print, radio and TV are pathologically inclined to only pick bits that are negative for both National and ACT.
    If the total blackout that emanates from the cooperation from the political media coverage leadership and the army of information manipulators that are a major component of the Ninth floor staff is unknown to you then cease with the theoretical observations, cuddling corpses gets smelly eventually
    Should the Opposition leadership ever attempt to circumvent the problem of reaching out for Collins, Seymour and Co then Big Tech have a solution f0r that as well. It took a while but eventually they banned Trump so they have form, Ironically the Trump ban remains but The Taliban enjoy coverage on Twitter.
    No I am not paranoid I just observe the evidence and it is plentiful, spoilt for choice really.
    
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    September 1, 2021 1:27pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Some of us will miss you if you decide that KB isn’t the place for you, and perhaps – if you’re somehow of the belief that people posting here think that Jacinda will pop along, read what we’ve posted and magically take the red pill – it isn’t the right place for you.
    
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    September 1, 2021 2:27pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

How long until we hear the first lie of September?
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September 1, 2021 8:02am
- CJames
  
  Just depends on whether any of the Cabinet Ministers have been on the radio being interviewed by Mike Hosking yet.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:28am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    That will be ‘can I say just one thing here Mike’ Nash
    
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    September 1, 2021 8:46am
    - Ronin
      
      “But what I WILL say…”
      
      He says that just about every time he opens his mouth.
      
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      September 1, 2021 3:10pm
  - rouppe
    
    Stuart Nah said nz would voluntarily achieve 90% vaccination level
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:04am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      The will force or coerce the rest.
      
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      September 1, 2021 9:11am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        They won’t be holding anyone down and jabbing them but there will be lots of “no soup for you” moments for the un-jabbed.
        
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        September 1, 2021 6:51pm
    - Ruawai
      
      ….by December!
      
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      September 1, 2021 9:44am
    - thirteenstars
      
      Which won’t make one bit of difference to the government’s elimination strategy, and the lie that the facts tell us it is.
      
      The question is: given that vaccines reduce the rate of infection but don’t prevent infection, especially of new variants, what level of community transmission (that is: deaths) will be acceptable at say, 90% vaccination rates, without NZ going in and out of perpetual, expensive and freedom-destroying lockdowns?
      
      The answer under the elimination strategy is a firm: none.
      
      Can you see this PM, and her experts, making a statement akin to: now that we’ve achieved high levels of vaccination, further outbreaks will not be met with lockdowns and denial of freedoms.
      
      We are being firmly and forcibly moved into the mindset of a never-ending emergency, which is the holy grail of all modern government.
      
      By the way, National has no alternative to the elimination strategy. They are as myopic as Labour. All National say, is go harder and faster, which is pointless and dangerous when the things you’re going harder and faster with are based in a lie.
      
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      September 1, 2021 9:55am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        For those poor souls governed by lefty governments I predict covid irrationality will go on for a very long time, regardless of vaccination rates. They will gravitate towards “experts” who produce models predicting doom for every imaginable covid scenario. A mere shadow of the alleged “tipping points” and hey ho here we go, lockdowns and/or over done restrictions!!!
        
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        September 1, 2021 6:57pm
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Nash said there will be no coerced vaccination. So what about NZDF personnel and others in MIUQ facilities who have lost their jobs due to refusing the vaccine?
      
      That lie was told around 8.15am on September 1st. It might not be the first one of the month, but then again, the PM didn’t do a media round this morning.
      
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      September 1, 2021 10:36am
      - sooty
        
        Didn’t he put a box of whiskey on it!
        
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        September 1, 2021 1:13pm
    - virtualmark
      
      I think that, technically, Stuart Nash believing 90% of Kiwis will voluntarily choose to be vaccinated is a delusion rather than a lie.
      
      In extremis liars get taken to court, delusional people get taken to hospital.
      
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      September 1, 2021 1:12pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      He did not just say it but he bet a case of expensive wine that 90% will be achieved. Cindy on The Country told Jamie that she also beleived it could be achieved.
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-labour-mp-stuart-nash-bets-case-of-wine-on-90-per-cent-of-kiwis-being-vaccinated-by-christmas/S7WYCZ3QFH53SCMYUW3I24XPQY/
      
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      September 1, 2021 1:57pm
      - Scooter
        
        Ahh but which December did he mean, 2022, 2023?
        
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        September 1, 2021 4:22pm
    - Ronin
      
      He also said something about the number of police he was going to add. Remember that?
      
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      September 1, 2021 3:12pm
- Mr_Blobby
  
  It’s a continuous non stop nightmare.
  
  If you can watch it at all.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:44am
- thirteenstars
  
  When their lips move.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:45am
- ABS4EVA
  
  Here it is Comrades
  
  Be Kind to one another
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:08am
- Simon
  
  “We were so worn out by decades of lying nonsense that we yearned for any scrap of truth no matter how tattered.”
  
  Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:25am
  - paulscott
    
    and also Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
    “Who will make clear to mankind what is really heavy and intolerable and what only grazes the skin locally?
    Who will direct the anger to that which is most terrible and not to that which is nearer?”
    Many people here know that unbridled, unqualified messianic power is the greater danger to us
    
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    September 1, 2021 12:14pm
  - Vory v zakone
    
    And….
    
    “I understand, I sense that you’re tired. But you have not yet really suffered the terrible trials of the 20th century which have rained down on the old continent… You’re tired, but the Communists who want to destroy your system are not; they’re not tired at all.”
    
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    September 1, 2021 3:29pm
  - thirteenstars
    
    Sol was a great explicator of the nuts and bolts of authoritarian government and the deeper effect it had on the human psyche.
    
    And for those who have read him the modern approach to law, government and society is a terrible reminder that history repeats.
    
    The Soviets may have lost the battle but by then it was too late: the infection had spread far and wide.
    
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    September 1, 2021 3:44pm
- tf78
  
  Peter Williams called out Jacinda’s untruths from question time yesterday – it made my day.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:46am
- curry4me
  
  Steve Otto(North Shore) And how long before she clocks up the first 100?
  
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  September 1, 2021 11:03am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I would say she is well past that. One lie a day since Winston selected her would amount to thousands
    
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    September 1, 2021 12:48pm
- BananaLlama
  
  That would make for a great monthly recap. The first lie of each month, run it as a social media campaign.
  
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  September 1, 2021 2:27pm
Master Mariner

Aust secures extra vaccines from Singapore, Did we miss this opportunity?
quote
“In his Facebook post, Mr Lee lauded the move as another example of a comprehensive strategic partnership between both countries.
Read more at https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/singapore-will-send-500000-covid-19-vaccine-doses-australia-same-amount-be-returnede,”
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September 1, 2021 8:02am
- Loddenthinks
  
  We used to have a “comprehensive strategic partnership” with Australia. Can’t quite remember what happened to it, some time in late 2017 I think it all started heading south.
  
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  September 1, 2021 2:30pm
Maggie Pie

“Online Shopping is great…..
I’m just working on a New World Order”

– Jacinda Ardern.
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September 1, 2021 8:03am
- Padriv Ustoev
  
  Copied from a meme from the “Wake up NZ” Facebook page.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:09am
- Vory v zakone
  
  Joe Biden: “How I Learned To Love The New World Order”
  
  In 1992, long before he wrote the Patriot Act, Joe Biden expressed his love for the New World Order in an unearthed Wall Street Journal essay.
  
  In an article entitled, “How I learned to love the New World Order,” Biden outlines his plans to destroy national sovereignty, establish a one world government, and “breath new life into the U.N. Charter.”
  
  https://newspunch.com/joe-biden-love-new-world-order/
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:17am
  - Batman
    
    Vory did you read the actual piece?
    
    This is fucking hilarious. The oh so reputable News Punch has highlighted some words, out of context, and adapted them to modern conspiracies without any intellectual lifting at all.
    
    So what does Biden actually say? Its important to remember that this is 1992, directly after the fall of the USSR and the victory of democracy over communism. Using the term “new world order” carried no other connotation.
    
    He argues America shouldn’t go around as a global imperial power, becoming a ‘GloboCop’ that over shadows any other potential power, as advocated by the WSJ and Dick Cheney (remember how TrumpWorld doesn’t like him?).
    
    He also rejects the Pat Buchanan argument for America First isolationism, on the basis that withdrawing from world affairs would weaken US economic and political interests.
    
    He advocates for taking on China and it’s proliferation of weapons for places like Syria, Iran, Libya, and Pakistan. He notes that the Bush Administration won’t take firm steps despite the Senate proposing it.
    
    He argues that America must continue to work with its post-war allies, Japan and Germany.
    
    He argues for collective security by the likes of NATO and allies, and reforming the UN to be more functional and to give life to the charter as originally signed. He states the US veto should be retained.
    
    In short, none of what newspunch and you have claimed is true. Its a failure of basic reading comprehension mixed with a desire to push a silly conspiracy that hasn’t been true for the 25+ years it has existed.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:54am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Batman, for once I am in agreement with you. There is way to much of this bullshit going around, where context is everything and statements are not reproduced faithfully.
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:20am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        I guess you didn’t follow the link, ivv. The entire document was reproduced faithfully.
        
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        September 1, 2021 2:39pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      News Punch has “highlighted some words, out of context”
      
      You must have been reading something else then. The link I followed reproduced the entire article, word for word, with all context available. Perhaps it’s your basic reading comprehension that needs a tune-up.
      
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      September 1, 2021 2:38pm
      - Vory v zakone
        
        Yep. Hardly my fault that a moron can’t read that it was from an original WALL STREET JOURNAL article.
        
        In fact that is a snippet of what China Joe thought all those years ago. Just wait until you find out what he actually ‘did’ over the last half century ??
        #thebestisyettocome
        
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        September 1, 2021 3:38pm
- TWEEDSE
  
  Oh Maggie thank you. Clever post of the month!
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:21am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  While the plebs have to work with a stuttering burdensome Countdown
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:47am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Wouldn’t shop there if you paid me.
    
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    September 1, 2021 2:40pm
- CherryCat
  
  Very clever.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:01am
- ABS4EVA
  
  Get a Free Mason “Jar”
  with every
  New World Order this month
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:09am
- I remember when
  
  Quite a queue locally for that “New World” order.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:40am
Andrei

💉💉💉💉💉 💉💉💉💉💉 💉💉💉💉💉

💉💉💉💉💉 💉💉💉💉💉

Bank could not stop woman sending $30,000 to fake boyfriend

There might be a metaphore in here but at least it was her own money being squandered on a fool’s errand

Not so for long suffering New Zealand citizens who wonder about the sustainability of the current policiies directed towards eliminating the ineliminable

Does anybody know what happens when the money runs out?
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September 1, 2021 8:04am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Ever increasing amounts of fear porn to keep the plebs scared and afraid of their own shadows.
  
  Once we are on a permanent fear footing we will endure any hardship, loss of privacy and freedom, for the illusion of safety.
  
  Expect empty shelves and endless ques.
  
  Authoratian government at its very best.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:22am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  The Cypriot solution coming to an Australian bank near you perhaps.
  
  No insured deposit of €100,000 or less would be affected, though 47.5% of all bank deposits above €100,000 were seized
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%932013_Cypriot_financial_crisis
  
  All ok because not a ‘new tax’
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:36am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Don’t know why you say “seized” like it was some government action. The Cyprus banks were insolvent because they had invested huge sums in high interest Greek Government bonds. When Greece went tits up it cut a deal with the EU central bank to the effect that all state lending to Greece was secured but all private investors in Greek Bonds took an approximate 70-75% haircut. Despite their partial ownership by the Cypriot government, those banks in Cyprus were deemed private investors and thus suffered huge losses. That meant that their liabilities (such as depositors funds) exceeded their assets.
    
    In that circumstance, typically all unsecured depositors would lose a percentage of their funds except that Cypriot like most countries has a government guaranteed deposit insurance scheme whereby deposits up to 100K Euro were fully insured. The actual scheme is slightly more complicated, if a single person or entity has more than one account, they are only covered up to a total of 100K across all such accounts (this varies by country, the schemes are typically similar but not identical).
    
    Thus those banks were insolvent, the deposit insurance kicked in for the qualifying amounts, and the balances were then put into the general pool to repay creditors. I’d need to check, but I think the losses were so bad that effectively all deposits over the limit were in fact not refunded.
    
    So not “seized” as such, but liquidated as part of a bank collapse, in effect.
    
    After the collapse, the government of Cyprus (which was the majority shareholder in at least one of the banks) recapitalised the bank and kept it going, but without the excess investment in Greek Bonds. That original investment was of course an entirely political act as the Greek part of Cyprus is hyper-Greek nationalist.
    
    Just FWIW.
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:55am
  - virtualmark
    
    Paulus, you should Google “open bank resolution nz”.
    
    Hint: If it happens here there’s no guarantee you’ll even get your first $100,000.
    
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    September 1, 2021 1:14pm
- Joe Kerr
  
  They will just import more essential people with non-Anglican names to work as Uber drivers. Perpetual growth through immigration yeah!
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:43am
- Paulus
  
  Money never runs out Robertson tells the RB to print more !
  
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  September 1, 2021 10:09am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    To be repaid by his grandchildren.
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:59am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Have I missed something with regard to Alf? Is he to become a birthing person and chest feed? Else the grandchildren will surely be a hard road to hoe…….
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:23am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        If only there were some other way to have children, who can produce grandchildren, such as adoption.
        
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        September 1, 2021 2:42pm
      - alwyn
        
        I think Alf was married before he came out.
        Anyway Grant’ biography on the Parliamentary website says
        “He met his partner Alf in 1998 playing rugby and their family now includes four grandchildren. In 2009 they were joined in a civil union.”
        
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        September 1, 2021 6:07pm
- gravedodger
  
  Maggie Thatcher suggested money running out would end Socialism but that although quite correct then, did not account for the Printing Press solution that has been running red hot currently.
  Back in the Day a financially literate electorate rejected such notions in FPP elections, although Northland did send Vernon Cracknel to Wellington as MP for Hobson for three years in 1966.
  Different times indeed.
  
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  September 1, 2021 1:38pm
westernScientest

Has anyone else noticed that when ever colins in on the stuff live feeds it buffers something terrible and cuts off half of the interview, but when its adern or whoever it works fine? Maybe its just the time of day or something.
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September 1, 2021 8:05am
- Gravelroad
  
  @Western:
  I was going to post a report from this morning (which seems to have slithered off) about a breakfast TV interview with Ms Collins and someone called Indira which allegedly developed into a politically manipulated shouting match re Ms Collins’ travel to Wellington to attend Parliament I. Lockdown 4 – just the same as Ms Ardern did a couple of weeks ago.
  It seems the msm are intensifying their campaign to call Ms Collins to account on all manner of issues even though she has no power to account with.
  When will the media ever go after the actual Prime Minister with similar vigour?
  It must be all about the money.
  Nothing else matters to the msm – not truth, not accuracy, not balance, not indulging in personal attacks, not even trying to hide their bias – just the money.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:19am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep,
    It’s the full-on attack on Judith Collins for doing her duty .
    
    Siouxsie Wiles is gutted:
    
    I’m gutted to see that some opposition MPs have decided that parliament must meet in person at alert levels three and four. That puts not just them at risk, but everyone who needs to now come to the Beehive so that they can work there. Whatever your politics, I don’t think this is showing good leadership during a pandemic and sets a dangerous precedent.
    
    https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/31-08-2021/siouxsie-wiles-covid-is-different-this-time-our-level-four-lockdown-needs-to-be-too/
    
    She didn’t seem to be gutted when Jacinda Ardern rushed back to Wellington after having spent days in Auckland when the virus was spreading.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:34am
    - Cinematic
      
      Seriously, who gives a flying toss what this microbiologist has to say?
      
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      September 1, 2021 9:41am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Isn’t she a bit small minded for a microbiologist or does she substitute her mouth?
        
        17 1
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        September 1, 2021 11:01am
      - Hard Cheese
        
        @Kev – maybe she uses her own brain as a subject for her studies
        
        1 0
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        September 1, 2021 3:18pm
  - Bob
    
    Indira ‘s performance this morning was a class example of a bigoted large chip on my shoulder racist. Possibly the worst political interview I have ever seen; and I have seen a lot in the last 70 years.
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:08am
    - jon
      
      Ah but they are such a diverse group on Breakfast on TV 1. Quotas have a lot to answer for. Being employed on merit is in the past.
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:44am
  - Paulus
    
    What are the so called paid media afraid of with Collins ?
    Susi Wyles hoping for a high Labour List seat still.
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:10am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      That’s why MMP has to go.
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:02am
    - namron
      
      Your “Susi Wyles” started life as “Susanna Wiles”
      Now with her [deleted] hair colour and the silly spelling of her name “Siouxsie” she is SHOUTING “Notice me! notice me!” and it’s working.
      
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      September 1, 2021 1:35pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Ve haf our vays…
        
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        September 1, 2021 5:57pm
- alloytoo
  
  Perhaps more people are watching Collins?
  
  That’s a reasonable technical reason.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:26am
- Bob
  
  atmospherics old chap…sorry interferics, with a control button
  
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  September 1, 2021 10:06am
artemisia

How relentless media negativity can backfire. MSM could well take note but I couldn’t possibly comment.

Over on Point of Order blogger xtrdnry takes a look at the new biography of Boris* by “Tom Bower, the UK’s pre-eminent investigative muckraker”.

Many Alexanders but only one Boris …. [Bower] scrupulously documents the driving ambition, rhetorical evasion, monumental self-centeredness, serial infidelity and inability to buy a round. But these traits are not entirely absent from many leading politicians. And Johnson managed to emerge through the pages as a ferociously intelligent and curiously likeable character, who pulls off these stunts more colourfully and successfully than most.

*Boris has joined the pantheon of the elite who only need a first name. His actual first name wouldn’t have cut it. As xtrdny sagely points out. pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2021/08/31/many-alexanders-but-only-one-boris/#more-11808
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September 1, 2021 8:07am
JibberJabber

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/533238-bbc-presenter-shaw-death-astrazeneca/

The official coroner’s finding that BBC radio presenter Lisa Shaw died as a result of complications from the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine should give those who have been vilifying the ‘vaccine-hesitant’ pause for thought.
If Lisa Shaw hadn’t taken a Covid vaccine then she would, in all probability, still be alive today. The mother of one, a popular presenter at BBC Radio Newcastle, was only 44 years old and fit and healthy, with no known underlying conditions.
I get the flu jab because I’ve had some terrible flus in the past, including one which led to pneumonia and made me very ill indeed.

Every year I’ve had the vaccine, I’ve avoided getting ill – and on the occasions when I missed it I did. So I carry on having it. But no one forces me. It’s not been the same with Covid, though.
The coercion of people to take these new on the market vaccines is something we’ve never seen before in our lifetimes in Britain.(and NZ)
And the government – taking its cue from Tony Blair – has been threatening that if you aren’t ‘fully vaccinated’ you will be barred from many things you enjoy doing come the autumn.

All of these threats are unethical, some would say downright criminal. When it comes to ‘jab-only’ vaccine passports, the word ‘blackmail’ springs readily to mind.

In genuinely free societies, decisions on whether to take vaccines should always be a personal choice, even during a pandemic.
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September 1, 2021 8:08am
- Batman
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Please don’t spread Russian disinformation which is designed to destabilise the West, and boost the completely faked Russian vaccine data.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:19am
  - Simon
    
    Batman has a point. Consider the source.
    
    Currently in NZ the covid experts largely come out NZ universities. We know the CCP have converged a lot of academics and their employers. Consider how many NZ “experts” are being heavily influenced by the CCP. If you wanted to wreck a country zero covid would do it.
    
    And then there is Ardern and her commitment to Agenda 2030. Different kettle of fish. When Ardern opens her cake hole is she working for NZ or Agenda 2030?
    
    Batman is right consider the source. Question everything. If you accept at face value something from the State or state actors you are making a mistake.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:38am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      May as well go walkies with Biden…
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:04am
  - Charmaine Hawke
    
    You are right of course Batman we need a left wing source so look here https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/aug/26/bbc-presenter-lisa-shaw-died-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-complications-coroner-finds
    Mind you this is a UK left wing disinformation site so 2 can play that game.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:46am
  - Liberal Cliche
    
    Nice dodge on the real death caused by a vaccine there.
    
    >implying NZ media doesn’t engage in disinformation.
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:05am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Do you have a rebuttal to the fact,
    
    The official coroner’s finding that BBC radio presenter Lisa Shaw died as a result of complications from the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine
    
    ?
    
    I suspect that portrait of Joe Biden you have in your bedroom looks like a painter’s radio by now.
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:25am
    - miltonF
      
      Bahaha that last comment is gold mate. I’ve never heard that expression before.
      
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      September 1, 2021 2:17pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      You win the internet!
      
      Now, I must to the chemist’s away, to get some Batty brand butt-hurt cream. I know someone who needs it badly.
      
      4 1
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      September 1, 2021 2:57pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    So speaks the person who STILL believes the disinformation that Trump was a Russian agent and that the Russians offered bounties for the Taliban to kill US troops.
    
    Batman, you are the local king of disinformation!
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:59am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Did the official coroner’s finding indicate that BBC radio presenter Lisa Shaw died as a result of complications from the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, or did it not?
  
  If it did, then how Te F is this “russian propaganda”???
  
  Hello?
  
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  September 1, 2021 7:07pm
Benedict Yu

If you have 15 minutes today this video is interesting. It is summary of the views of some of the key scientists in the UK that have emerged over the last few weeks. This includes the guy they lead the Oxford vaccine development.

https://youtu.be/JhRb5hnTseU

It is quite stark. In summary…

COVID is not measles. (Are you listening Jacinda?) If we had a vaccine like the measles vaccine we could end it but we don’t and probably never will have one.

Every person in the world will eventually be exposed to COVID. Elimination is impossible.

Use the vaccines to reduce the incidence of serious illness. After that ongoing exposure will make COVID like a minor cold for most people.

A third booster shot is probably a waste of time.

Less consensus on vaccinating children but it is probably not justified in kids under 12.

This consensus just makes a mockery of the New Zealand elimination goal. To repeat we will all get COVID. Because there is nothing that can stop it.
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September 1, 2021 8:09am
- riffer
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  For crying out loud. Can we have one day without somebody bitching about the elimination policy? This place is turning into a one story echo chamber.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:16am
  - kowtow
    
    Don’t like it ?
    
    Foxtrot Oscar.
    
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    September 1, 2021 8:24am
  - CAKE FACE1
    
    There are quite a number of socialists whose posts here seem to be just aimed at disrupting conversations.
    
    The Elimination Policy requires lockdowns to maintain, so has huge implications for the future solvency of the country.
    
    Saying people are “bitching” about elimination (and therefore the solvency of the country) really understates how important an issue this is.
    
    As for it being an “echo chamber”, you are welcome to explain why we should become Fortress NZ – forever.
    
    You probably won’t – its hard to get the socialists to justify their elimination policy. Its easier to be disruptive…
    
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    September 1, 2021 8:26am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Yes to all that. But at this point the game is not really about whether the elimination strategy is a good one, it’s about how to persuade/enable the PM to accept that it isn’t, and so stop with the lockdowns.
      
      We’ve seen many times that the PM is ready, willing and able to inflict any amount of damage rather than admit that she’s been wrong. Therefore, demanding any approach which would require the PM to admit that she’s been wrong is likely to do more harm than good – it will simply cause her to double-down and insist harder than ever that she’s right, no matter the cost.
      
      What is needed is to persuade the PM that something in the circumstances has changed which enables her to change policy without admitting that she’s been wrong. Mass vaccination is the only candidate that’s remotely likely to achieve that.
      
      This is why I don’t understand why so many people here continue to grasp at any straw, no matter how illogical and poorly evidenced, to argue that vaccines aren’t effective.
      
      What do you think the Prime Minister is going to do if she actually comes to believe that vaccination isn’t effective? Stop with the lockdowns, thus admitting that she’s been wrong all along – or say that if nothing has changed as regards covid and its preventability, therefore neither will the lockdown policy?
      
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      September 1, 2021 9:28am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Worry not, Albert Ross.
        
        Our PM doesn’t do any thinking.
        
        Her spin doctors will already be laying the groundwork for the great “Reset” on the Elimination/Lockdown shambles.
        We will be told in the not too distant future that on the best scientific advice and because the Virus has “changed” we must change too….
        
        Remember the PM is planning to run an experiment later this year whereby some of her business mates will get to travel overseas…and explore how to return to NZ safely and begin the opening up of our country.
        
        We’ll be sold some story of how wonderful all this is…and how it proves we can live with a
        low level of virus…
        
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        September 1, 2021 11:15am
      - marcw
        
        You only have to listen to her adamant insistence that the South Island MUST remain in L3 lockdown today. I think it’s over 300 days since a community case of Covid-19 here, but she still feels it’s too much of a risk for the butchers and greengrocers to be trading. Sorry, but she’s out of control, batshit crazy now.
        
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        September 1, 2021 11:54am
      - miltonF
        
        That doesn’t change the fact that the vaccines are not the silver bullet.
        
        Why insist on one failed policy to cover for other failed policies? I’m not following the logic here. Maybe this is good for Jacinda but how is continuous failure good for NZ?
        
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        September 1, 2021 2:22pm
  - Cinematic
    
    Can you think of an issue that’s having a bigger impact on people’s lives in NZ?
    
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    September 1, 2021 8:26am
    - Tricati
      
      The current government.
      
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      September 1, 2021 9:38am
  - westernScientest
    
    Wasn’t it you yesterday complaining that everyone on here were anti-vaccers in an echo chamber? Is it the new house line?
    
    FYI an informal poll was run on here by gravelroad yesterday or the day before and it is pretty evenly split at 42 have had, 48 have not. Keep in mind there will be a bunch in both that are probably fairly agnostic about it, and a bunch in the have not, that will have one, just haven’t had the chance yet.
    
    So informally kiwiblog is well on the well ahead of the rest of the country in vacs rates…. not a very good anti-vac echo chamber when half of the occupants are vaccinated.
    
    Gravelroad
    @ Nukuleka-
    Ok – Monday challenge:
    How many on here have had at least one Covid 19 vaccination?
    Uptick this post if you have (no names)
    Downtick if you havn’t (no names).
    
    Down ticking doesn’t necessarily mean you are anti – just that you havn’t done it.
    
    Thumb up 42 Thumb down 48 REPLY REPORTAUGUST 30, 2021 9:53AM
    
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    September 1, 2021 8:30am
  - Grant
    
    No you bloody well can’t.
    So the governmental policy that has had the entire country in Level 4 for two weeks is not something worthy of comment?
    The policy that will keep our border shut for years is of so little consequence that you wish people would not trouble themselves commenting on it?
    Wow
    G
    
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    September 1, 2021 8:34am
  - igm
    
    You obviously do not suffer any monetary losses thanks to this bullshit.
    Seems Ardern is close to achieving her goal of stuffing the commercial sector of New Zeealand.
    
    59 1
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    September 1, 2021 8:35am
    - Paulus
      
      Nobody gets monetary loss – She will pay everybody if they vote for her and as she tells Robertson to do it so its his decision.
      It still appears today that New Zealand is awash with buckets of cash.
      
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      September 1, 2021 10:15am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Yeah? Have you got your share to repay in the future?
        
        Once we had trained people, skilled in money and economic management managing NZ, now it seems to be the academic refuse.
        The present lot couldn’t recognise a tsunami at 50 paces.
        
        6 1
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        September 1, 2021 11:08am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Hello? … Hello? Did riffer say something?
    
    58 3
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    September 1, 2021 8:42am
    - Jade Warrior
      
      Just the same tired old riffs.
      
      29 0
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      September 1, 2021 8:46am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Somebody gave riffer an uptick. Is there another nutter out there?
      
      48 5
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      September 1, 2021 8:56am
      - graham
        
        Have you read any of Muttonbird’s comments recently? Think that will answer your question.
        
        44 0
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        September 1, 2021 8:59am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Probably be Muttonturd.
        
        40 3
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        September 1, 2021 9:00am
      - gravedodger
        
        Im gunna b charitable, it were a fick fum
        
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        September 1, 2021 10:30am
  - Cassandra
    
    Another bad morning, riffer, give up while you’re only slightly behind.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:11am
  - Wired-one
    
    Yes, let’s not debate the very issue of the day that is destroying the economy, peoples livelihoods, freedoms, businesses and harming peoples mental health and wellbeing. Idiot.
    
    21 0
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    September 1, 2021 9:12am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Good grief.
    
    I have long been an advocate for vaccines an I am fully vaccinated against COVID. I have done that because I have concluded that the vaccines protect me against the small, but real chance, that I would otherwise become seriously ill. There is also the pragmatic thing about wanting to travel.
    
    The video I posted is from a health educator who is also pro vaccine.
    
    My statements about the futility of the elimination goal are long standing and the evidence supporting my view is growing by the day. If the evidence changes I will change my mind.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:14am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      That’s not how politically impactful science is done in 2020’s. These days it’s conclusion first then filter the data to match it.
      
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      September 1, 2021 9:46am
      - Littletramp
        
        Science has become science fiction.
        
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        September 1, 2021 10:50am
      - Ed Snack
        
        And if after filtering the data isn’t “good enough”, there are two remaining strategies; lie (the usual option), or “create” data that is good enough.
        
        And rely on the MSM to shout out very loudly the defined narrative.
        
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        September 1, 2021 11:04am
      - kowtow
        
        Oh balls , I meant to reply to littletramp but hit report . Apologies. Mod; Please ignore the “report” it was meant to be reply as follows , an Orwell quote;
        
        “In our age there is no such thing as “keeping out of politics.” All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred and schizophrenia.’
        
        And science would come into that too , it’s now political.
        
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        September 1, 2021 11:36am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Others are watching on our behalf:
      https://www.globalresearch.ca/fake-delta-variant-fourth-wave-another-lockdown-upcoming-financial-crash-worldwide-economic-social-sabotage/5751819
      
      And another watchout (deceit reigns):
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:13am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Here’s the missed URL
      https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2021/08/29/the-approved-pfizer-vaccine-is-not-yet-available/
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:14am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      You’re a bob each way there Benedict. You don’t believe Covid can’t be eliminated but if there becomes proof of that you’ll change your mind.
      You also don’t define elimination, is it keeping Covid out of a country, or is it quelling infection rates, or reducing the effects of Covid by vaccination. Or indeed is could elimination be a combination of the 3 and any other relevant approaches?
      But in the same breath, you can’t see that NZ might be employing various initiatives and be capable of changing tack?
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:20am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “eliminate” verb ‘completely remove or get rid of (something)
        
        NO
        
        The Prime Minister. “We can stamp out covid outbreaks like we do with measles”
        
        NO
        
        I am quite clear in the views I have expressed.
        
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        September 1, 2021 3:04pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      How are we going with Influenza Virus elimination?
      
      Or, we don’t even bother trying?
      
      And nobody bats an eyelid that we need yearly new Flu vaccines to *try* to keep up with their yearly mutations.
      
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      September 1, 2021 7:11pm
  - The Housekeeper
    
    It’s hot in the kitchen riffer, if open debate is too much for you you can always scroll. Free speech can be soooo annoying and the spaces for it rare. Every KB’er values this. So if you don’t like it that’s a foxtrot oscar from me too.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:37am
  - NoFax
    
    If we were not in a level 4 lockdown then I might agree with you – but unless you are living in another land – maybe Labour Fantasy Land – this is our daily life!
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:46am
  - I remember when
    
    There are many things we would like to have one day without, but, as we get older this becomes increasingly unlikely.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:50am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Disagreeing with the elimination policy is entirely reasonable because WE WILL NEVER ELIMINATE COVID UNLESS WE LOCK DOWN FOREVER.
    
    Everyone else in the world gets this. The second it become known that the vaccines weren’t going to actually stop people getting the virus, the elimination strategy became untenable.
    
    While there is still value in quarantining at the border until our vaccine numbers go up, the elimination strategy is simply moronic long term.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:51am
    - Bob
      
      Libertarians…we will never eliminate Covid, even if we locked down for ever, it is a virus that we have to learn to live with by controlling it; much the same as we do with measles, smallpox Polio etc.
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:48am
      - miltonF
        
        False equivalence Bob and you know it. Why didn’t you use the flu or common cold in your examples of viruses we have successfully eliminated?
        
        0 1
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        September 1, 2021 2:30pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    You seem to be in need of tissues. Don’t let the door hit you in the arse on your way out to get them.
    
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    September 1, 2021 3:00pm
- The Goblin
  
  Has he got pink hair? Thats apparently a vital requirement to be one of her trusted advisors.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:17am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    That or at least one arm heavily covered in tats. One of the in crowd, or something.
    
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    September 1, 2021 7:13pm
- PhilBest
  
  I frankly do not believe scientists who claim that natural immunity will never be effective for this virus and never render it “endemic but not significantly deadly” (apart from people who were nearly dead anyway) like the common cold. It seems to me that “experts” – usually officially connected ones – on a particular side of highly charged debates are far too ready to defy “101” orthodoxies and call them “contrarian”.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:22am
- argie bargie
  
  And the pity is that that researchers and physicians who say that vaccines are great but we need to concentrate on early treatment if we want to beat this thing are classed as vaccine deniers or conspiracy theorists and are ostracised.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:32am
- westernScientest
  
  Thanks Benedict, Dr John Campbell always has well informed and thought out videos.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:38am
  - Ra Henare
    
    For those who dont know. Dr John Campbell is an international nurse educator, with a PHD.
    Has been doing video education since the days of VHS tapes.
    
    I like his presentations albeit he can ramble a bit 🙂
    
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    September 1, 2021 2:12pm
- cmm
  
  In the Spanish Flu approx 30% of the world’s population were infected – by the definition of the time: displaying clear symptoms.
  
  If they had had PCR tests etc to detect asymptomatic cases it would undoubtedly been 100% (or at least very high 90s).
  
  Elimination is a child-mild strategy: if I hide under my bed maybe the monster will just go away!
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:43am
- Simon
  
  Did they say anything about fatties getting hit hard ? All those in hospital currently with the ro are obese from Sth Auckland.
  
  So 18 months of the ro and no public health official has told people to lose weight? They don’t really give a shit about public health.
  
  Also none of those so called fucking msm ro experts. What a bunch of turds. What about in BY’s link. Anything about the fat?
  
  The ro isn’t about health otherwise they would have told the obese to lose weight constantly.
  
  So here is the best ro health advice. Fatties lose weight.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:43am
  - fernglas
    
    I thought I saw Stuff approvingly reporting on people queuing in the early hours for the first takeaways in level 3. So it’s obviously not acceptable to tell fat people to lose weight.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:16am
    - kowtow
      
      In the Age of Covid we’re all meant to take “health” action in order to protect others , but fatties aren’t asked to be healthy to save themselves.
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:38am
    - Ra Henare
      
      haha. You fall in to the falshood trap that all that go to takeaways are fat!.
      
      I would happily eat takeaways(fast food) 5 times a week and I aint anywhere near fat, let alone obese. (75 years old, 74kg and healthy)
      
      Out of my 3 kids, 1 is obese and the others normal. All eat similar diets.???
      Yep it has mystified me for years.
      
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      September 1, 2021 2:16pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Takeaways aren’t necessarily fat, but eating too much junk food will make you fat. Junk means highly processed, lots of refined starches e.g. bread and chips, lots of highly-refined flour and sugar, much of it cooked in oil.
        
        Pointing to yourself or your kids is meaningless without context e.g. specifically what you eat, how much you eat and how much exercise you do. But good on you for keeping the weight off – 74kg seems reasonable unless you’re 4 ‘ 2″ of course. See what i mean about context?
        
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        September 1, 2021 3:08pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    AOG church members are likely to have higher average vulnerability to covid, polynesian genetics not having long history with coronaviruses that other ethnicities have. Spanish flu killed 10x as many Polynesians as Europeans
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:49am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Provocative (but probably correct).
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:16am
  - Durden
    
    Simon, Hendy and Suzie better watch out then
    
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    September 1, 2021 2:21pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Not fatties, simply oppressed and discriminated against. Get it right.
    I’m a fatty at the moment (more than I’d like to be anyway).
    
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    September 1, 2021 7:26pm
- crikey
  
  Yet another excellent report from Dr John Campbell. Even if you don’t follow his channel on YouTube, I endorse BY’s recommendation that you watch this particular episode.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:49am
- Critical Thinker
  
  That was indeed a very interesting video. Thank you for sharing this Benedict ?
  
  I agree that the evidence seems overwhelming now that the Ardern regime insistence on an elimination strategy is pure unadulterated madness.
  
  We should instead be spending our limited resources on protecting and treating our vulnerable immune compromised population. And expanding our emergency ICU capability.
  
  Basically everything that our Covid Plan B experts have been saying all along ?
  
  https://www.covidplanb.co.nz/our-posts/protocol-for-re-opening-new-zealand-society/
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:50am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Can the PM be sectioned?
    
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    September 1, 2021 11:17am
    - rockape
      
      If that’s the same as hung drawn and quartered then probably not.
      
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      September 1, 2021 12:46pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        I was considering the more gentle process under the mental health law.
        It only takes two docs.
        
        1 1
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        September 1, 2021 5:59pm
- Mr_Blobby
  
  And admit that they got it wrong.
  
  Created a economic and social crisis of epic proportions.
  
  Cost the country 100 billion dollars and rising by the day.
  
  Yeah I don’t think so.
  
  It will be declared an unqualified success.
  
  And it will be, the big leap towards becoming a socialist shit hole like venezuela.
  
  We will be feeling the economic and social costs for a generation.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:53am
  - Nickc2
    
    Even Victoria (the most Socialist Dictatorship in Aust) has given up on Dovid-19 eradication and is working towards zero lockdowns (late news yesterday).
    Unfortunately, Cindy didn’t get the CCP Memo.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:31am
- Tomtoddy
  
  What would be useful would be an honest discussion on how individuals should prepare for living in a Covid world. Especially us oldies.
  
  Clearly adding to one’s vitamin intake helps.
  Getting out in the sun helps.
  Boosting the immune system is essential.
  
  What about having a supply of ivermectin on hand to take when a snivel or cough appears? Does that help?
  
  Same with hydroxychloroquine. Does it help if taken early?
  
  We need a planned approach with input from people more interested in the truth and genuinely wanting to help rather than those who simply enjoy the limelight and seeing themselves on telly.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:03am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    My advice would be to get vaccinated, take vitamin D, stay as healthy as you can. Don’t smoke. Have a good diet.
    
    Do those things and COVID will be the least of your worries in life.
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:19am
    - septic skeptic
      
      That’s exactly where I am at. Except for that bit about a good diet, still working on that. From my personal point of view I would be quite happy to get a Delta infection now as a natural booster shot. I think it would be very good for dealing with a future mutation. I have some sympathy with the current lockdown as the vaccination stroll out has left many without the opportunity to get the shots. But once all who want have had the opportunity we should open up.
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:09am
  - Ed Snack
    
    As much as I think that both Ivermectin and HCQ are beneficial especially if taken before or at least very early in the case of a Covid infection, I would be wary of taking them unless prescribed, especially HCQ.
    
    Ivermectin as made up for humans is relatively rare in NZ and probably effectively banned, but like all medicines there are dose considerations. Any animal preparations may contain other substances unsuitable for humans and the dosage is very likely incorrect. However Ivermectin is itself very safe if taken in the correct dose. If you can get some human intended it would be worth having it available to take if exposed.
    
    HCQ on the other hand, although effective, has significant exclusions and more so for elderly people. For example if you have heart rhythm irregularities it’s is, as they say, “contraindicated”. That is something one should only take if prescribed after you have been cleared for it. In other words, you won’t get it in NZ.
    
    As for the others, ensuring that you have good levels of Vitamin D (D3 I think is the one flagged for Covid), also Vitamin C, and zinc supplements are also considered useful.
    
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    September 1, 2021 11:13am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      quercetin, curcumin (both over the counter anti inflammatory ‘herbal’ supplements that have been shown effective in trials), likely better than ivermectin
      
      several times a day povidone iodine nasal/throat irrigation/gargle/spray using over the counter Betadine gargle that could also spray up nose with a spray dispenser is very effective at reducing viral load build up in lungs.
      
      testing suggests iota carageenan is likely even better; its a freely available food science gelling compound, but only available as anti-viral nasal spray Nasitrol in a few countries so far)
      
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      September 1, 2021 1:23pm
  - crikey
    
    @Tomtoddy
    
    There hs been an excellent series of videos on the MedCram YouTube channel. This one – https://youtu.be/2cjGPMm-lMQ – gets you into the channel and talks around some of the things that might interest you. There are pointers to other related videos.
    
    Right back in the early days of Covid-19 infection MedCram did a series on the biochemistry of Covid-19 infection – very interesting if that’s your thing.
    
    Scout around on the site.
    
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    September 1, 2021 1:01pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  Dan Andrews Victoria Premier has like Cindy been persuing an elemination policy. Yesterday he changed his tune. A Yougov poll showed only 16% are in favour of lockdowns. The rest want to open up and get back to business and living.
  Oh if we could get that result here. Sadly we have too many who like lockdowns accompanied by most of their usual pay courtesy of the taxpayer.
  
  BTW if we have a trick cyclist KBer I would appreciate their opinion on my previous postings that Cindy has a massive case of narcisim as evidenced by her enthusiatic performance on the Pulpit of Truth each day.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:14am
  - Nickc2
    
    I’m told that within the Parliamentary Labour Party, it’s her way or the highway. IMO that’s why they all pay homage to her at every opportunity. This is evidenced by Stuart Nash each Wednesday morning on the Hosking show (Newstalk ZB). He’s quite sickening really.
    I’m also informed she’s a raging lunatic (foot-stamping, yelling and expletives) when out of camera/microphone range.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:47am
    - RightFirstTime
      
      Sounds like the way a dictator would behave……..oh wait……..
      
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      September 1, 2021 12:45pm
    - virtualmark
      
      I haven’t heard that. And I’ve been in the offices of several senior Labour ministers in this government.
      
      She’s nothing like as ruthless as Helen Clark or John Key. Not even in the same postcode of ruthless.
      
      What I have heard is that they all know she’s the only reason the Labour vote was what it was in the last two elections. She’s the goose that lays the golden Crown limos. Whether they keep that big pay packet is totally on her shoulders. So no one will criticise her or move against her.
      
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      September 1, 2021 1:22pm
      - Nickc2
        
        My posting is the second time such behavior has been mentioned on this site and I trust my informant.
        
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        September 1, 2021 2:45pm
      - Batman
        
        Yeah none of what you claim aligns with what people around the beltway see and hear. That includes the opposition and lobbyists.
        
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        September 1, 2021 4:50pm
    - Durden
      
      Surely one day a recording will come out.
      
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      September 1, 2021 2:24pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Batman @ 4:50PM
        As they say in the classics:
        There are none so blind as those who will not see.
        As an add-on the the classics:
        There are none so deaf as those who will not hear.
        
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        September 1, 2021 5:07pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I don’t think folks are going to be happy having all summer in lockdown.
    3 weeks ago we had one known case of Covid in the community and a few in MIQ
    
    Today we have an unknown number of positive cases in the Community and probably 650+ in some form of isolation….
    and at least another fortnight before we know if this outbreak is contained.
    
    I don’t think folks are going to handle the prospect of another month in lockdown this year.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:56am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      But, are they true positives? Have any been retested?
      Do any have obvious symptoms?
      Why is the WHO warning that the tests are unsuited to their present use being ignored?
      Can a govt make reliable decisions on errant data?
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:26am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Most of their pay? Jeez the saving in travel costs alone must make the lockdown wage subsidy a net financial gain for most employees.
    
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    September 1, 2021 11:12am
- krazykiwi
  
  Good video, Benedict. Thanks for posting.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:48am
- Cinematic
  
  Thanks BY. Interesting synopsis.
  
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  September 1, 2021 12:09pm
CaptainCompromise

Newshub going full anti-hate at the moment.

I like Patty, not so much newshub. But do they realise the answer to extremist terrorism is to make “controversial” speech more acceptable and make discourse more accessible? History has shown us deliberately disenfranchising people leads to terrorism 100% of the time yet this is being held up as the solution.
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September 1, 2021 8:09am
- Joe Kerr
  
  No this is New Zealand, they made Tarrants manifesto illegal because it heaped praise on China and greenie issues, Comrade Jacinda decreed that truth must be hidden from poor weak minded citizens who might otherwise instantly become Australian eco-communist terrorists.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:51am
- Liberal Cliche
  
  Because the “controversial speech” can contain real facts and truths that would dismantle paddys world neo-liberal view in 2 seconds flat, like when Lauren Southern and Stephan Molyneux made him look like a fool. And they are milquetoast center right speakers.
  
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  September 1, 2021 10:14am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Yes, Paddy ‘Face-for-radio’ Gower certainly showed his prejudices last night – but for him, it wasn’t that bad.
    
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    September 1, 2021 11:00am
    - CaptainCompromise
      
      Dont think the personal insult adds much to the debate tbh
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:03am
  - krazykiwi
    
    +1 for milquetoast. Such a great word. Filed!
    
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    September 1, 2021 11:14am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      ah… but how is it pronounced?
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:21am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Milo on toast.
        
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        September 1, 2021 11:27am
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        Is ‘milk-toast’ as spoken.
        Try Google; Google dictionary and they have audio/sample.
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspar_Milquetoast
        ..Caspar Milquetoast is a comic strip character…”the man who speaks softly and gets hit with a big stick”. The character’s name is derived from a bland and fairly inoffensive food, milk toast, which, light and easy to digest, is an appropriate food for someone with a weak or “nervous” stomach…”…
        
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        September 1, 2021 12:33pm
  - lifesgood
    
    He is a fool , doesn’t need anyone to make him look like one.
    
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    September 1, 2021 12:26pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  I didn’t watch Paddy on Hate but I can’t help wondering if his first port of call was to go and interview Southern and Molyneux (the ones he branded far-right and alt-right, and who comprehensively humiliated him and exposed him for the unprepared partisan hack he is)?
  
  Seems like an obvious starting point.
  
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  September 1, 2021 3:12pm
RockyJ

Jo Biden can add failure with his energy policy to his failure in Afghanistan.
His administration has been constraining the production of oil and gas in the USA to meet the commitments of the Green New Deal. At the same time he has been calling on the Saudis and Russians to increase production to keep down rising fuel costs.
This is similar to the kindness our own dear leader shows to our domestic producers such as the dairy industry.
What is it that makes Progessives despise their own citizens so much?
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/08/30/bidens-oil-and-gas-policy-makes-about-as-much-sense-as-his-afghan-policy/
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September 1, 2021 8:10am
- Master Mariner
  
  Yep, Now hes asking OPEC countries to lift quota and pump more after stopping all investments in US as a popular policy.
  https://www.hydrocarbonprocessing.com/news/2021/08/oil-falls-as-us-refineries-shut-washington-pushes-opec-to-pump-more
  
  Interesting to me is the Nordstream2 pipeline and the over reliance on Gas to Europe ( Germany). Regardless of windmills and Solar in Germany everyone knows how strategic this is to Germany’s over reliance on Russia for Fuel security.
  
  https://www.dw.com/en/nord-stream-2-gas-pipeline-what-is-the-controversy-about/a-44677741
  Ever wonder why Merkel is always “talking” to Russia ?
  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2021-08-20/merkel-and-putin-to-discuss-afghanistan-other-issues-in-meeting-video
  
  And what do we do? Ban oil and Gas as a “Nuclear moment”.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:38am
  - septic skeptic
    
    I wouldn’t have minded so much if in the nuclear moment Cindy had an epiphany and started consent for a reactor.
    
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    September 1, 2021 11:17am
westernScientest

Place your bets:

We have had two days of sideways now, are we going to go back to zero, or are we in for Victoria style chop?

The logistic curve was on the money yesterday at 49, but is running a little higher than the logistic from 4 days prior.

https://github.com/westernsci/NZ-covid-outbreak-curve-fitting/blob/main/covidCurveFitting.ipynb

As always, this is just a bit of fun with numbers, they are not predictions or anything, it all means very little, so dont take it too seriously.
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September 1, 2021 8:13am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I like your curves better than those of the PM.
  
  (p.s.) no label on the y axis for your bottom graph.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:59am
- krazykiwi
  
  Nice work, westernScientest. First time I”ve seen github used as a publishing tool. (I’m a code junkie so it’s just a code repo for me)
  
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  September 1, 2021 10:19am
  - westernScientest
    
    Yeah, its relatively new, thats all I used to use if for as well. You still have to run the script offline, then make a commit, you cant edit it on github, but then it seems to convert the ipython script to a rendered xml or something. Not sure how it works, but is pretty cool. Havnt seen it for JS or anything though.
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:24am
    - oldfella
      
      WS, what is this strange language you are using with all these weird words I don’t understand?
      Is it Te Reo? You’re sounding like Simon at 6pm. 😉
      
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      September 1, 2021 10:54am
      - westernScientest
        
        haha, na it is the language of white supremacy, where logic rules over all else, even has colonialist constructs like, master and slave, class, etc.
        
        Or were you referring to my dyslexia ridden posts generally (no offence taken)? I do apologise to everyone on kiwiblog for the spelling, grammar and word use errors. There is one really obvious one that I only noticed a day ago, I wonder how many have picked up on it.
        
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        September 1, 2021 11:42am
- krazykiwi
  
  In terms of bets, my bet is that regardless of how this curve builds that every NZer will encounter Covid-19 in the next year of two.
  
  So let’s not fixate on cases.
  
  Better things could be the absolute number of ICU beds, the proportion occupied with Covid-19 cases, Estimated or actual community seroprevalence, number of people recovered from Covid-19 etc
  
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  September 1, 2021 10:23am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Bloomfield expects the number to be higher today.
  
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  September 1, 2021 10:39am
  - oldfella
    
    Where did you see that, Tony? I thought the good doctor said we’d turned the corner and the number of cases would come down.
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:57am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Bloomfield was on ZB with Hosking after the 7.30am news this morning.
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:04am
      - oldfella
        
        FWIW, the horrid story says: ‘Bloomfield this morning told Breakfast that although positive cases of Covid-19 had started to dip, which was “heartening”, they could bounce up again.”
        Sounds less definitive than what he might have said to Hosking.
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-freedom-slightly-for-those-in-alert-level-3-but-ashley-bloomfield-warns-nz-is-not-out-of-the-woods-yet/4A6ECJIEQVUBVZLKCYQ4GXMGOM/
        
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        September 1, 2021 11:42am
      - crikey
        
        By the time Hosking interviews Bloomfield the tally to be reported at 1pm is most likely known or a strong indication thereof. We aren’t entitled to know until the Punch and Judy show kicks off.
        
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        September 2, 2021 4:47pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Bloomfield is hedging his bets… he said he expects the numbers to bounce around.
      
      I think he knows more samples are processed on weekdays…and folks asked to isolate at the beginning of lockdown will now be showing symptoms if the had been infected.
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:28am
- KevO'Brien
  
  I expect the logistics curve to go up a bit as it has to peak and conform with the changing number of tests which I think have been slacking off.
  One interpretation is it pointing to the max number of daily positives including errors as a function of the number of tests processed.
  
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  September 1, 2021 11:34am
Yvette

Pacifika
Although answering a Judith Collins question about targets, the Prime Minister said in Parliament yesterday –
“From what our experts have shared with us, it’s not necessarily about the percentage but whether or not you have enough people across different age demographics, different communities, different geographic areas, and different ethnicities” Ardern said [1]

Having that knowledge why has Ardern or her other Ministers of Health – Bloomfield, Hipkins, Little or Verrall – not insisted on a greater concentration to get South Auckland, particularly Pacifika, vaccinated?

• More than half of cases in the current COVID-19 outbreak are Pasifika people … [2]

• ‘Devastating impact’: south Auckland’s Pasifika bear brunt of new Covid-19 outbreak
Pacific communities have been hit by New Zealand’s coronavirus resurgence – and the stigma of being at its centre – Guardian [3]

• A New Zealand serious about health equity would have pushed for greater vaccination of Pacific people from the start of the rollout, a South Auckland GP says, as the community bears the brunt of another Covid-19 outbreak
… Pacific people also made up nearly 60 per cent of the community cases in the August 2020 Covid-19, and more than 60 per cent of the measles cases in the 2019 outbreak that affected more than 2000 children and young people. [4]

And is Ardern and her Ministers unaware of overseas information, especially from US?

• In L.A. County, Pacific Islanders suffer the highest infection rate of any racial or ethnic group, more than 2,500 per 100,000 residents. That’s six times higher than for white people, five times higher than for Black people and three times higher than for Latinos, according to county health demographic data that exclude Long Beach and Pasadena, which have their own health departments [5] July 19, 2020

• The impact on the Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander, or NHPI, community is devastating, and without accurate data, we only know a small piece of the story. Currently, NHPIs are seeing infection rates up to five times that of white people in Los Angeles County alone, and this impact is being felt across the country, in states such as Arkansas, Louisiana, Illinois, Colorado, Washington, and Oregon, where NHPI case and death rates are higher than any other race and ethnicity [6] August 25, 2020

• Fiji

Auckland Mayor Phil Goff says Auckland’s multitude of MIQ facilities, sizeable chunk of the population and contribution to GDP mean Aucklanders should be prioritised in the vaccine rollout
But neither Goff, nor any part of the Newsroom item, mention Pacific communities or the covid impact on them.

[1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/08/jacinda-ardern-accuses-judith-collins-of-sharing-misleading-information-in-covid-19-vaccine-debate.html
[2] https://www.sciencemediacentre.co.nz/2021/08/25/over-half-of-cases-in-delta-outbreak-are-pacific-people/
[3] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/19/a-devastating-impact-on-our-people-south-aucklands-pasifika-carry-the-weight-of-new-covid-19-outbreak
[4] https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/coronavirus-covid-19-significant-concern-over-pacific-vaccination-rates/466JYSS5IDMAR43SCD2J4MUEEY/
[5] https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-07-19/california-pacific-islander-native-hawaiian-communities-hit-hard-by-coronavirus
[6] https://www.uclahealth.org/news/covid19-exposes-how-native-hawaiians-and-pacific-islanders-face-stark-health-care-disparities
Sorry about the number of links, but it shows how they would interrupt the flow of what is written above
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September 1, 2021 8:14am
- Cinematic
  
  It’s not targeted at high risk populations because Labour are useless. The MOH has proven to be useless too. All they’ve delivered is lockdowns and political gain.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:52am
- Paulus
  
  So it is Collins’s fault after all.
  
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  September 1, 2021 10:17am
  - Ruawai
    
    Hipkins said in parliament yesterday that even if we had been fully vaccinated this outbreak would still have happened and still be as bad, if this is true, which I doubt, what then is the point of vaccinating? If it is not true then Hipkins is making things up to suit his slow vaccine roll out.
    
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    September 1, 2021 11:00am
    - Bob
      
      Hipkins was under a lot of stress yesterday, he was all alone trying to defend the indefensible; his comments/obfuscations were sillier than normal.
      If we were ALL vaccinated, even with this outbreak(?) there would have been no need for a lockdown as our well funded Health system – (Angry Little yesterday told us how much extra money they have received) – would now have sufficient beds for the people who are seriously ill with Covid.
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:56am
- septic skeptic
  
  Also, if PI are so Vax hesitant, why have Tonga and Samoa been ahead of us in the Vax rollout most of the time?
  
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  September 1, 2021 11:22am
  - Ehlana
    
    And given we’ve known for over a year now that Pacific Islanders are among the most vulnerable, has it occurred to anyone in our health ministry to team up with the islands to reach their communities here?
    People who might not listen to Jacinda or a white doctor might believe a nurse in Tonga or a Samoan minister of health.
    
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    September 1, 2021 1:38pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Excellent. I don’t have the time to write with such citations although I have many filed away.
  
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  September 1, 2021 11:38am
Tomtoddy

Is Delta really a “superspreader” virus? Given the number of people actually tested as positive and where they have been before they isolated there surely would be many times the number affected now.

I know of a staff member in a factory of 70 people who tested positive and worked in close and confined situations with most of the 70. No one else got it. Is this part of the media hype – “superspreader”?
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September 1, 2021 8:16am
- Scott
  
  And it’s a really scary virus! According to Tova we should all be terrified of this!
  
  Well so far no one has died in the whole of New Zealand during this latest outbreak.
  
  Even in Australia where the virus is now probably endemic, nearly 1000 Australians have died since March 2020. That seems a lot. However we note that 600 Australians die every year of the flu.
  
  So while this is serious, it is not the end of the world. The virus is not the Black death and it is not the Spanish flu of 1918/19. Our strategy of lockdown has been disproportionate in my opinion.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:22am
  - cmm
    
    About 800 people die every day in Australia from all causes (take the population, divide by average life time).
    
    Approx 400,000 Australians have died since March 2020. Approx 1000 of them have died WITH CV19.
    Less that a quarter of a % of them.
    
    Perhaps there are bigger health issues to worry about.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:43am
    - Ed Snack
      
      To be fair, almost all die from that irreducible condition that is in effect, old age.
      
      At some point, it’s going to get you. Like taxes.
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:18am
      - Taieri
        
        At some point, it’s going to get you
        ————–
        
        Not anymore. If you are kind. The PM herself said so.
        
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        September 1, 2021 12:25pm
- PhilBest
  
  Tom, that is incredibly interesting, thanks. I have come to firmly believe the experts who say this is all about ventilation and whether the virus is allowed to build up in the air. So maybe that factory is very well aired?
  
  The other thing that can happen is someone who has “tested positive” is not actually sick enough to even be shedding anything.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:24am
  - PhilBest
    
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/19/us/gym-ventilation-covid-trnd/index.html
    
    A gym trainer exposed 50 athletes to Covid-19, but no one else got sick because of a ventilation redesign
    
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    September 1, 2021 12:21pm
    - Ehlana
      
      So, what is our government doing about indoor air quality and ventilation?
      
      Anyone heard?
      
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      September 1, 2021 1:43pm
      - PhilBest
        
        SOME of the Covid Response Team have finally started to TALK sense:
        
        https://blogs.otago.ac.nz/pubhealthexpert/throwing-open-the-windows-the-need-for-ventilation-improvements-as-part-of-covid-19-outbreak-control-in-aotearoa/
        
        But there is no unanimity yet among the officials and the politicians might as well be on another planet for all the good advice they are getting.
        
        Here’s a must-watch from a great team of scientists who are experts in this issue:
        
        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hGYyi5DqOzE
        
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        September 1, 2021 4:33pm
- kowtow
  
  Coromandel should be a plague pit by now…….
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:25am
- MCos
  
  A ‘super spreader’ refers to a person infected with the virus who is particularly contagious. Whoever attended the church in Favona was probably a ‘super spreader’ judging by the number of people who subsequently became infected in the congregation.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:40am
  - dcrane
    
    Or a really good singer!
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:14am
  - PhilBest
    
    It requires two things to coincide: the infectious person to be “shedding” – which only happens for a couple of days during the progress of their infection and illness (if it becomes an illness) – and the environment they are in while shedding, to lack “fresh air per person”.
    This explains the random nature of spread; it is NOT an inevitable “highly contagious one to one” spread by contact, droplets etc. It is either “nothing” or it is “everyone who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, at once”. The R number could hardly be a better example of “lies, damned lies, and statistics”. R is as irrelevant as the average income in a suburb where Bill Gates lives.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:41am
    - alwyn
      
      “the infectious person to be “shedding” ”
      Oh dear, you make it sound like dandruff.
      
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      September 1, 2021 12:23pm
      - sooty
        
        Or a industrious DIYer!
        
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        September 1, 2021 1:33pm
- DeepBlue
  
  There were articles on this topic last week, talking about K values and other such things. Not everyone spreads, as per the 3 wanderers we had in earlier outbreaks, whom did not infect anyone. However there a few people, 10% if I remember rightly, spread to the many. Trouble is we don’t know which ones these are.
  
  It is also clear that living closely together and being locked in is definitely spreading quickly within families.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:44am
  - PhilBest
    
    Absolutely – and those in crowded housing conditions and especially those in buildings with internally recirculated air, are set up for de facto manslaughter by incompetent officialdom.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:43am
    - Bob
      
      Heatpumps, basically dehumidifiers- do not help in preventing the spread and infection rate. Covid likes cool dry air, with little/no addition of fresh air
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:59am
      - PhilBest
        
        Yep – outbreaks in cool stores and meat packing stores are one massive clue among MANY
        
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        September 1, 2021 4:34pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    And such a silly thing to tell folks to isolate in-house whilst they await results if they have sick babies or old folks around.
    
    What advice are they given about protecting others in their households?
    
    Do folks in ivory towers assume everyone lives in many-roomed houses where someone can isolate for
    a couple of days?
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:09am
- cmm
  
  You will notice how the scare factor works:
  * Every time something new comes along it is super dangerous etc.
  * When that doesn’t really happen, upgrade with the next one.
  
  Delta isn’t nearly as bad as was projected, but now there is the new South African C.1.2. Be super scared people!
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:49am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    The lambda variant obviously was a big disappointment and didn’t create enough fear among the plebs!
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:47am
    - cmm
      
      It was never going to be beta or gamma or iota or one of those airy-fairy Greek letters.
      
      Delta was always going to be dangerous. Everyone has heard of Delta Force. Dangerous buggers those!
      
      Kappa has some promise, but it sounds too much like an American college frat for girls where they paint their nails, drive around in pink EVs and throw dildos at eachother.
      
      Hence the new South African scary C.1.2. However they need to put more 6s and 9s in there. They are more scary.
      
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      September 1, 2021 4:35pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    All building towards a media generated ‘Fear-gasm’.
    And like “the little death/la petite mort”, I expect a sense of melancholy coming upon the population in a post-Covid world.
    As we look back, and consider to what degree did we surrender to base emotions in one form or another.
    Going to be some interesting books written in 20 or 100 years time about our current moral panic.
    
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    September 1, 2021 12:43pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The inventor of the rt-PCR said it’s not suitable for C-19 testing.
  The WHO has also rejected it–everyone needs to be retested.
  It seems like to use it three samples should be processed by different labs and a result, either way, declared based on 2 out of 3 agreeing.
  
  The PCR process randomly creates dna as we get in human dna copying.
  Did space ship crews not test for error? Acting as though a system is perfect may not be wise.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:57am
  - cmm
    
    Kev: All these processes are random at the lowest level, but enough of them together average out so that randomness does not matter.
    
    Throw a die once and you will randomly get 1 to 6. Throw 100 and the score will, almost always, be pretty close to 350.
    
    What is far more of an issue is that there is a high variability in the initial translation (by a factor of 10 or so), run that through the exponential system that is PCR and you end up with huge variability in the outcomes – by factors of millions.
    
    This is why PCR is a good indicator of presence, but is useless as a diagnostic because it does not show levels of infection.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:13am
    - PhilBest
      
      Exactly! CMM – you are one of the most authoritative commenters online.
      
      I post this often:
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHmVj3LTqrU
      
      Kary Mullis: “With PCR you can find almost ANYTHING in ANYBODY”
      
      (He is talking about HIV there – there was massive controversy over finding HIV in “almost anyone”, for obvious reasons).
      
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      September 1, 2021 9:45am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      It’s more exciting than that.
      Dna has threads and these split to be copied. In the copying sometimes they make errors. Those are a source of our natural mutations.
      
      The PCR lab method was designed to build up a micro sample for further study and I’m sure it has its uses. That process requires a external starter dna to attach the sample to and a similar ending piece to close the chain. When those are provided the new chain is set to be replicated.
      
      Effectively through a process I, have not found an adequate description of yet, bubbling away in a test tube, a replication of the whole chain is accomplished. That is repeated up to 40 times so 2 grows to 4 to 8, 16…..33.5 billion after 25 times and a trillion at 40.
      
      The output of the PCR process is compared against a model dna that is being searched for. That itself is a highly technical process–have we got it, how many occurrence etc? I don’t have sufficient info to comment on that phase but what I do have looks reasonable. Among the enhanced quantity of the dna are any randomly created dna artifacts of the copying process. The model dna is matched against the whole batch.
      
      Each repeat re-copies any previous error being part of the chain and more may occur. After so many repeats there are warning that the process will have created so much error dna that almost anything will match. The WHO earlier had 40x then reduced to to 25x now it has basically rejected all previous results and seeks re-testing.
      
      Are we seeing the created artifacts being called positives and used for govt decision making. I can well see how random dna can be created and as only statistical type sampling is done of the tested dna a match with the artifact dna could occur.
      
      Where here is there any way for averaging out? Multiple processing of the same sample batch would do that but the initial test stands on its own without any validator.
      
      Your concerns are appreciated and well founded.
      I got my info from Uni course notes.
      
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      September 1, 2021 12:17pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  I believe they are now working on a new more deadly variant of Delta – a South African strain of delta (not the last SA strain) but a newer worse version for us all to live in fear of.
  I see cmm has mentioned it.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:45am
Southtop2

So how did Delta get in? Have I missed the explanation?
Was it frozen chicken again?
I thought our borders were impregnable?
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September 1, 2021 8:18am
- cmm
  
  MIQ is a pretty thin shell. There are so many potential vectors:
  * People doing things they are not supposed to: bored people stuck in hotels need love too.
  * Cleaners etc go from room to room.
  * These are repurposed buildings. They transmit aerosols quite well.
  * Laundry etc gets dealt with by workers.
  * Rubbish gets taken to landfills, scavenged by gulls then crapped out over the city.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:17am
  - PhilBest
    
    The appendix to this blog post by some of the Covid Response Team experts has an Appendix detailing what is thought to have happened:
    
    https://blogs.otago.ac.nz/pubhealthexpert/throwing-open-the-windows-the-need-for-ventilation-improvements-as-part-of-covid-19-outbreak-control-in-aotearoa/
    
    Yes it is all about aerosols. And these guys actually haven’t picked up on the half of what might have happened, especially at Crowne Plaza. They are trying to say just enough to make it look as though they are clever for having worked this out at last, and not enough to make it clear they have been culpably incompetent for not having accepted the obvious that was being argued more than a year ago by hundreds of scientists globally and at least several Kiwis.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:49am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I grew up in a house built in the 1920s and lived for 30+ years in one built in 1903.
      
      Both of those houses had a room that had been made by enclosing part of the front verandah. The room could be accessed from an outside door as well as from the inside of the house.
      The room was sunny for much of the day.
      
      I remember lots of houses had these ‘sun rooms”…
      very useful for confining a sick family with infectious diseases.
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:39am
      - Bob
        
        Maggy,
        many hospitals once had enclosed ‘sunny ‘veranda’s for the purpose of patients recovery.
        
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        September 1, 2021 12:03pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Cats and other animals as a virus repository is an interesting possibility too.
    Puss-puss doesn’t do Alert level lock down.
    
    Transmission from people to pets has occurred & proven many times, but not so clear in the other direction.
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/animals.html
    However, pets more likely to pass the virus on than frozen chicken wings.
    
    Wu-Flu Part 2: Fluffy’s Revenge
    Something to add onto their long list of crimes, from spraying and crapping all over my property.
    
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    September 1, 2021 12:50pm
Gravelroad

I have thought carefully about contributing this question because I do not want to be cancelled in a deluge of TDS and derision, (or have some tech “investigation” commenced on me) – but, here goes:
How is it that former President Trump (for whom millions voted voted in their last election) is permanently banned off Twitter, yet the taliban is permitted to run a Twitter account?
Was it not the taliban under the leadership of Osama Bin Laden, who undertook the destruction of the US World Trade Centre and bombed the Pentagon?
But the Americans are all ok with the taliban terrorists now?
Trump much worse?
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September 1, 2021 8:19am
- ldypen
  
  Be careful, that loud noise above your house will be a Blackhawk helicopter… don’t ask inconvenient questions!
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:22am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Bloody Taliban already…..
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:31am
- PhilBest
  
  Another piece of evidence for the answer lies in the disturbing video posted by a US woman soldier who is uber-woke in which she says she can’t wait to shoot American citizens who disobey her orders. The Taleban is actually not the enemy when western conservatives are. Militant Islamism is a case of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”, to western progressivism.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:27am
- MCos
  
  Osama Bin Laden wasn’t the leader of the Taliban who had nothing to do with the destruction of the WTC.
  The Trump administration entered into negotiations with the Teliban regarding a power sharing agreement in Afghanistan. Not that the Teliban needed to bother because the other side they were supposed to share with just faded away in the finish.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:35am
  - dcrane
    
    The Taliban even offered to hand over bin Laden, but they demanded that the United States produce the proof of his guilt first. The U.S., which believes itself above such requirements, invaded instead.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:16am
    - dcrane
      
      Can any of you downtickers post a link to show that this isn’t true?
      
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      September 1, 2021 12:49pm
      - marcw
        
        Maybe the Al Qaeda members who died in the plane hijacking terrorist plot and the prison full of the other Al Qaeda foot soldiers in Guatemala had something to do with the US not needing any more proof, as was obvious to most rational citizens – you excepted of course dcrane.
        
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        September 1, 2021 1:53pm
      - dcrane
        
        marcw that’s a long way to say ‘no’
        
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        September 1, 2021 2:40pm
    - Nickc2
      
      I don’t doubt you dcrane but can you point me at some evidence of what you are intimating?
      
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      September 1, 2021 1:32pm
      - dcrane
        
        e.g.,
        
        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5
        
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        September 1, 2021 2:42pm
- Inandout
  
  Gravel, the Taliban is not (at present) a threat to Twitter, Trump is. Interesting that YouTube is allowing all kinds of views now, pretty much any point of view. There are ads galore as well and that is where they make money.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:44am
  - dcrane
    
    Trump a “threat” to Twitter? lol
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:16am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The American economy feeds on wars and warmongering.
  
  Trump was trying to focus the country back into its own patch.
  
  The warmongers removed Trump.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:45am
  - cmm
    
    Yup, I would agree with some of that.
    
    Some of my customers are suppliers to the US military. The first half of 2021 has seen a boom in sales/services to them. Never seen it this good.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:21am
  - Batman
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    So warmongers removed Trump and replaced him with someone who ended the war just the same?
    
    They are not geniuses, that’s for sure. No wonder they’ve been pushing the same dumb war and nation building strategy for twenty years since they cheerled the Iraq War.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:24am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      Trump had a legitimate plan to end the war. Biden ripped it up and just left.
      
      What Biden did will embolden America’s enemies all around the world which will cause destabilisation and massive increases in arms sales. The warmongers will be absolutely loving it.
      
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      September 1, 2021 9:59am
- Hacked-Off
  
  Gravelroad, a couple corrections to your above statement. I have no issue with your question on Trump, the Taliban and the Twitter ban, its the second part of the statement that is incorrect.
  Firstly, the Taliban is separate from Al Qaeda which Bin Laden led. The Taliban ruled Afghanistan, had relations with Al Qaeda and refused to hand him over when the Americans requested it after 9/11.
  Secondly, the Taliban are not on the US Terror List. This is because the pundits in the US in the 1990s wagered that they could get the Taliban to agree to oil and gas pipelines running from Central Asia to India through Afghanistan to counter the Russian pipelines running east-west – so why antagonize them. It also seems that despite after 20 years of war between the US and Taliban, the US has not got round to putting them on the list.
  While Al Qaeda fought along side the Taliban during the last 20 years they are not the same organizations and they both have different objectives. It will be interesting to see how the Taliban handle Al Qaeda inside Afghanistan now that they are in charge.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:49am
  - dcrane
    
    The Taliban said that they would hand over bin Laden if the United States presented proof of his involvement in the attack. The US instead invaded, I guess because the invasion itself was what they really desired. Much as in Iraq, where the US invaded despite Saddam giving the demanded access to UN inspectors.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:18am
    - dcrane
      
      Btw, example source on the Iraq claim:
      
      https://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2004/03/18_blix.shtml
      
      “In the buildup to the war, Saddam Hussein and the Iraqis were cooperating with U.N. inspections, and in February 2003 had provided Blix’s team with the names of hundreds of scientists to interview, individuals Saddam claimed had been involved in the destruction of banned weapons. Had the inspections been allowed to continue, Blix said, there would likely be a very different situation in Iraq today. As it was, America’s pre-emptive, unilateral actions “have bred more terrorism there and elsewhere.””
      
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      September 1, 2021 2:48pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    Great and accurate comment. Or that’s how I see it as well.
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2001/10/bill-sardi/like-most-us-wars/
    
    “It will be interesting to see how the Taliban handle Al Qaeda inside Afghanistan now that they are in charge.”
    I’d swap that for ISIL instead of Al Qaeda however.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:51am
- cmm
  
  Just look at who runs Twitter and how US-loathing he is.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:50am
  - PhilBest
    
    “The Weirdbeard”, as some conservative commentators refer to him
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:51am
- Simon
  
  Face book recently banned the mother of one those US marines killed in Kabul.
  
  Big tech and the Dems / Regime are a joint operation. The Dems have made big promises to Big Tech around operating the security state and online money. Big Tech works for the Regime. Nothing else.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:53am
  - RoboRob
    
    ‘Section 230 lives inside the Communications Decency Act of 1996, and it gives websites broad legal immunity: With some exceptions, online platforms can’t be sued for something posted by a user — and that remains true even if they act a little like publishers, by moderating posts or setting specific standards.’
    
    This section protects big tech and saves it boatloads of money (from lawsuits and monitoring posts). The Dems fight to keep this protection (at the moment) and in return big tech fights to keep the Dems in power.
    
    I’m generally in favour of section 230 but the censorship now happening goes against the intent of the secion and moves the sites toward being more like newspapers, who aren’t protected as they are regarded as publishers.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:17am
  - dcrane
    
    And her instagram account…apparently facebook owns both now.
    
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9943583/Mother-Marine-killed-ISIS-bomb-attack-Instagram-account-SUSPENDED.html
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:20am
  - Batman
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Are the two things related, Simon? At all? Or is it because she breached the terms of service with her behaviour for whatever reason?
    
    Second, got any proof of that ban or any of your other claims? Otherwise one has to assume you’ve made them up, or are spreading someone else’s made up ideas.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:29am
    - graham
      
      Here you go Batman … I spent ten seconds on Google so you don’t have to.
      
      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9943583/Mother-Marine-killed-ISIS-bomb-attack-Instagram-account-SUSPENDED.html
      
      Mother of Marine killed in ISIS bomb attack has her Instagram account ‘mistakenly’ disabled after she blamed Biden for her son’s death and claimed President ‘rolled his eyes’ and ‘turned his back on her’ when she confronted him
      
      Her account was suspended yesterday and was restored after she posted about being disabled on Facebook, and a Facebook spokesperson has since told DailyMail.com that it was deleted ‘incorrectly’ but it won’t say how the ‘mistake’ came about.
      
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      September 1, 2021 9:36am
    - Joe Kerr
      
      Well it’s fortunate for the Taliban then that belonging to a group that cuts peoples heads off isn’t against Twitters terms of service.
      
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      September 1, 2021 9:56am
    - The Housekeeper
      
      She must be wishing it was her son who breached his terms of service.
      
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      September 1, 2021 12:29pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    It’s a pretty amazing age where you can get banned off big tech sites for posting a link to up-to-date published peer reviewed research papers that don’t parrot left wing narratives. The neo fascist left have taken over
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:55am
    - Liberal Cliche
      
      Ugh they are not fascists, these same Weimar neo liberal commies people silenced Hitler and the NSDAP long before they came to power.
      
      Völkischer Beobachter, Hitlers newspaper banned in 1923.
      
      Silencing your enemy goes both ways, there is 0 to gain from letting your enemy speak.
      
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      September 1, 2021 3:17pm
    - miltonF
      
      Neo-fascists? They seem like plain old fascists to me.
      
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      September 1, 2021 4:00pm
- westernScientest
  
  Orange Man Bad
  
  Sorry Gravelroad, as far as I can tell that is what it comes down to.
  
  In the west, Leftists have Muslims as some of their (many groups of) “special people” to look down on and feel ‘sorry’ for and ‘help’, because the Leftists dont think they are capable of making moral choices, and therefore should not be judged in the same way as other people of the same moral capacity as themselves.
  They view Trump as being capable of making the ‘right’ (read Leftest)’ choices, and the fact that he didn’t conform to their values makes him evil in their minds. Their ‘special people’, in their minds do not have moral capacity and therefore can not be evil (we dont get upset and think a dog or cow is evil now do we, they dont have the capacity to understand morality). The Leftists effectively romanticise them as Nobel Savages. Not unlike the way the way some a large portion of the upper classes of the roman empire looked on the celts, at the fall.
  
  To be clear, I do not think these things. These are what I have gathered the Leftests think from reading and listing to their modern ‘thinkers’.
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:54am
- Critical Thinker
  
  How is it that former President Trump (for whom millions voted voted in their last election) is permanently banned off Twitter, yet the taliban is permitted to run a Twitter account?
  
  Click on my name and it will be explained to you.
  
  The worldwide anti corruption movement that President Trump is a part of, is an existential threat to a cabal of incredibly powerful and corrupt entities.
  https://dailycaller.com/2021/02/05/time-magazine-election-fortified-cabal-powerful-people/
  
  President Trump was banned from Twitter for telling his supporters to peacefully protest against the blatant cheating in the 2020 election.
  
  Bin Laden was the leader of Al Qaeda. A terrorist organisation that was under the protection of the Taliban.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:09am
- RoboRob
  
  Questioning why Trump is banned and others are not makes you a TDS person and you are attacked rather than your argument. Trump is banned for spreading misinformation yet Putin (the man he was accused of colluding with to spread said information) is still allowed to post!
  
  All across social media people with right wing views are blocked for saying things that other organisations get away with. You can post pro vax information, even if its a lie, but don’t dare post something negative. You can post about the evils of the capital riots but don’t dare post about BLM riots.
  
  The people running these shows have personal views and agendas (generally left wing as they are out of California). The pretend to be neutral but are not.
  
  The only people who get away with breaking the rules are the ones that make the companies money, they will ‘ignore’ the Chinese genocide of the Uyghurs because of the money they earn. Ben Shapiro and the like still get to post on You Tube because of the money they make. The second that revenue dries up they will be gone.
  
  Eventually these organisations will fail as they drive away part of their audience.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:10am
- Liberal Cliche
  
  Taliban are winners, twitter likes winners. We like winners dont we folks?
  
  hue hue.
  
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  September 1, 2021 10:17am
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  Osama and Al Qaeda were guests of the Taliban, and not the same group.
  He brought the wrath of the US onto the Taliban indirectly, since the permitting training camps to operate, otherwise the US likely would have never done anything about this central Asian irrelevancy: American interest in the country was until them limited to Rambo 3.
  
  Much like Islamic State has presence around different regions, including even IS fighters in Afghanistan, Al Qaeda was like a Greenie “Thinking global, but acting local”.
  Taliban is regional, and other multi-regional groups like IS and Al Qaeda might be seen as competitors in one sense.
  
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  September 1, 2021 12:57pm
Grant

Is there a bigger Jacinda sycophant in the country than Stuart Nash?
To hear him on the radio over the last few weeks dropping her name at every opportunity has certainly done nothing to lessen that perception.
Go and do some real work grifter.
G
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September 1, 2021 8:20am
- Gravelroad
  
  @Grant:
  Maybe Nash has a bit of a crush on Jax?
  Not to be confused with the Ms Collins’ crush.
  Maybe he is angling for a promotion.
  Whatever, Nash is a smart-arse bovver boy who just opens his gob and a whole lot of conceited, self entitled rubbish flows out.
  Loved your flash, branded Ute on display at the farmers protest also Nashy.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:39am
- Scott
  
  Yes- Kieran McAnulty is the biggest sycophant! Wairarapa go down to level 3? No according to Kieran, not till Jacinda thinks it safe.
  
  Notice that every time that Jacinda has some MPs behind her Kieran is always there smiling adoringly in a fashion not normally seen outside of North Korea.
  
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  September 1, 2021 10:17am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Being a former TAB bookie, McAnulty knows all about backing the favourite. Does he understand though that the TAB, or the casino, or the pokie machine always wins in the end?
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:42am
G152

That was the sound of democracy dying.
Parliament with 12 people in spite of Cindy and Trevs attempts to go online and shut down criticism when it occurred.
And we’ve been good little servants so we can have KFC for tea
Whoopee

GIGO
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September 1, 2021 8:23am
- Ra Henare
  
  I see virtue signaling alive and well in parliament. Or was it Mallards rules?
  
  I refer to the ridiculous charade of taking off a mask when about to speak and then putting it back on when sitting.
  
  Yep sitting metres apart in spit of being a handful of people in a very large “room”.
  
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  September 1, 2021 1:52pm
70andstilllearning

An amusing take on one the idiosyncrasies of L3 lock down.
https://beachgrit.com/2021/08/breaking-new-zealand-becomes-first-country-to-ban-the-vulnerable-adult-learner-surfer-announcesif-you-are-not-experienced-do-not-surf/
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September 1, 2021 8:30am
Stu2

I’ve put up a couple of posts highlighting increases in the daily cases in Victoria, despite them having a lockdown stricter than ours. Zero cases was looking unlikely.

Well they agree. Today they are announcing what their targets wil change to, zero Covid has gone.

WA, SA and Queensland have managed to squash outbreaks, but none of them included a super-spreader event in a large church.
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September 1, 2021 8:31am
Stu2

Wow

RNZ is reporting there is building work going on at the Auckland hospitals as they are almost out of negative pressure rooms.

With only 32 Covid patients.
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September 1, 2021 8:34am
- Batman
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  This is why the natural immunity and “let it run through us” brigade are actually advocating for mass deaths of Kiwis.
  
  As a country we don’t have enough hospital beds for a large outbreak. We have approximately 250 ICU beds total, across the entire country.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:35am
  - RockyJ
    
    This has been known for over 18 months. Andrew Little spent the money that should have gone into building our ICU capacity on setting up a separatist health system
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:51am
    - Nickc2
      
      and going down a spent mine looking for a lost cause!
      
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      September 1, 2021 3:16pm
  - PhilBest
    
    Wouldn’t it be cheaper to have an ICU capacity of several thousand than to run up billions in economic destruction and “government debt” for NOTHING? Why is no-one talking about this? The trade-off has already been made in the political budgeting decisions about the acceptable burden of health funding. Don’t turn round and tell me it is me “advocating for mass death of Kiwis”. This is no less an “Act of God” than a volcanic eruption that also created more victims than we had ICU capacity.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:58am
    - Nickc2
      
      IMO, in this situation it’s not a shortage of cash but an overabundance of vanity projects committed to by this spendthrift Govt.
      BTW, how’s that cycle bridge in Akld going? Has work started yet? How much money has been spent on Consultants and Plans etc?
      
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      September 1, 2021 3:21pm
  - Joe Kerr
    
    Yeah it’s not like Comrade Jacinda had a year and massive fund of money borrowed off future generations with which she could have increased the ICU capacity. Oh wait…
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:59am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    .
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:25am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    No,
    Folks have been warning since January 2020 that an impending disaster was on its way.
    
    Anyone with any knowledge of NZ’s health system knows we lacked the staff and facilities to deal with a severe respiratory epidemic throughout the country.
    
    We’ve had 19 months to get our vulnerable folk vaccinated and to get some decent quarantine facilities organised.
    
    Time and money have been squandered by this Government.
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:27am
- Ra Henare
  
  The problem is really not numbers of ICU beds as such.
  
  But the fact they dont have the staff to man them.!!!
  A dearth of ICU nurses, ICU technicians(the equipment doesnt run itself)
  
  Yep and Far Foy hides away not giving resident medics permeance on their work visas etc.
  
  Yep as was obvious. The government tried to screw the nurses over a pay claim. So as soon as they can, the mobile medics are heading to Oz as fast as they can.
  
  So Ministry of Health should be all over far foy to get more medics in. (remembering there is a world wide shortage). Its called management.
  
  Wash my mouth out. I mentioned MOH and management in the same breath.
  
  Ponders
  Measles
  Havelock North
  Plenty of PEP
  We have it under control(DGH in January 2020)
  Plenty of flu vaxs
  Contact tracing
  Front of the q for Covid vaxs.
  etc etc etc
  
  But what they are good at is hiding stuff
  ie
  Refused to be part of the Full Government Response committee
  
  Not putting all the information out for others to see.
  
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  September 1, 2021 2:02pm
I remember when

The Covid Vaccine debate in Parliament yesterday showed once again why the government shouldn’t be solely in control of the epidemic.
It becomes as much about protecting your decisions as it is about the true situation.
If you want to take people with you the information has to be accurate and a true picture of where we are at.
A Parliamentary Council, with selected experts, removes this problem and would allow proper debate on actions.
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September 1, 2021 8:37am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yep,
  very disappointing listening to Andrew Little’s replies to Dr Reti
  
  Little has no idea how many surgeries have been cancelled;
  how many treatments/diagnoses delayed.
  
  Just NOTHING….and no attempt to find out…..oh, those numbers might appear sometime in October…
  
  I refer the member to the answer to the primary question where I said that the data on delays to planned care in this particular lockdown—the August 2021 lockdown—has not been evaluated or calculated yet, and we won’t until reliable data is available in October.
  
  https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20210831_20210831_32
  
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  September 1, 2021 10:32am
Frank the tank

Can we now place the Wuflu footpath in the same category as the frozen chicken wings theory last time?

FFS how is it impossible to find the source of infection when we know the steps from the airport to the MIQ to hospital and then out into the public.

Of course the Blairite stays up at night dreaming of ways the Kungflu transmitted……
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September 1, 2021 8:38am
- PhilBest
  
  It is obviously built-up virus aerosols in the air in the Crowne Plaza building that can drift via aircon ducting and stair wells and so on, between the MIQ and the ground floor. The walkway hypothesis is just the criminally incompetent officials still trying to prop up the “droplets” and the “close proximity” narrative that is essential as a pretext for all the tyranny.
  
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  September 1, 2021 10:00am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Correct, with an aerosol virus all you need for spread is confined airspaces.
    
    There is very little evidence worldwide for the spread of Covid via surfaces, or indeed any spread outdoors at all, excepting possibly large very crowded demonstrations or meetings.
    
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    September 1, 2021 11:33am
  - lifesgood
    
    Well it’s not like they’re going to own up about the UN worker bringing it in, is it?
    
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    September 1, 2021 12:38pm
Ra Henare

So who are some of those, in government, responsible for white anting the name New Zealand and replacing it with Aotearoa?.

I have posted before the silly situation that, when arriving in NZ passengers are subjected to a Biosecurity Video. The video is not bad except it doesnt mention New Zealand.

So “foreigners” ignore it because it says welcome to Aotearoa. They of course think they are arriving in NZ. Being a traveler I watch many passengers. They start watching, then after a few seconds go back to what they were doing!!

My OIA replay came this morning
………………………………………….
The production and release of the Biosecurity video was approved by then MPI’s Deputy
Director-General Public Affairs, Vincent Arbuckle
………………………………………….
PS. THis Video has been out before Covid and on the two flights I have had back to NZ during covid, many appear to be not returning residents.

Just so you know that there are such people as Director Generals of PR in the government, anting away.

Not a big deal in the scheme of things, but it sure is happening.
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September 1, 2021 8:39am
- ABS4EVA
  
  I think “Apartheid Aotearoa”
  is more accurate
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:15am
Vory v zakone

?The Cost of Fear. Read It and Weep – Then Find a Way Out.
Trust is the Opposite of fear. Trust yourself, trust your body
https://nzdsos.com/2021/08/31/the-cost-of-fear/
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September 1, 2021 8:42am
Tony Stuart

How bloody good is Sophie Pascoe? She is an absolutely class individual, and a pretty handy swimmer as well, despite her obvious disability.

There are some amazing stories at the Paralympics, like the Mexican gold medallist lat night who has one arm and no legs, or other swimmers I have seen with no arms, who touch at each end of the pool with their heads!
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September 1, 2021 8:42am
- Tricati
  
  Sophie on the dais receiving her Bronze meddle, picking up the crutches for the lass that won Gold, and then hugging both the Gold & Silver medal winners was just pure class – She is a very special young lady and a credit to her parents.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:03am
- I remember when
  
  Yes Tony. Like the Gold Medal winner who couldn’t pick up her own medal with her ‘good’ hand.
  How can some of them even swim.
  The cyclists that have to be tied to the handlebars.
  Perhaps the medal should be for the most dangerous dismount.
  Can you even envisage the dangers in their learning stages.
  Or, swimmers who, somehow, decided to become swimmers despite the near drowning experiences along the way.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:14am
- Joe Kerr
  
  Sport that is as exciting to watch as a male porn star with no penis. Thankfully there is a kink for everyone these days, I’m personally looking forward to Mastermind for the mentally impaired.
  
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  September 1, 2021 10:02am
  - graham
    
    Just for you, Joe Kerr – some words of wisdom from the late Sean Lock, on people who complain about TV.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUyUV8_bbhg
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:44am
    - Joe Kerr
      
      Sorry not relevant as I don’t watch TV, I am game for some dwarf wrestling but there is never any on.
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:25am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    You’re welcome to think that Joe. I personally find it inspirational watching blind people doing the long jump, being guided to the board by a voice, or amputees using what limbs remain, or those like Lisa Adams, born with cerebral palsy, overcoming their disability to compete at international level.
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:46am
    - Muttonbird
      
      This shows warped priorities. Your replies to my very reasonable comments are always angry and defensive, but to some clown who makes fun of disabled people it’s all ‘kumbaya’.
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:28am
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        You come here to troll, gloat about reporting anti-vaccine posts and mock KB as a community and tilt at ‘right wingers’.
        If you have reasonable comments at all, they must be seldom and well hidden.
        
        And you take offence now, and claim ‘warped priorities’ because someone has empathy for Paralympians and yet doesn’t respect your super-awesome contributions.
        You are a small person, with too much time on your hands.
        
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        September 1, 2021 1:51pm
- Fletch
  
  Then there were the blind people playing soccer, with a ball that makes a noise to tell them where it is… Was on TV yesterday afternoon. Amazing, really.
  
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  September 1, 2021 11:10am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Yes, it’s called Goalball. A very simple concept, but oddly mesmerising! Not all the players are fully blind, which is why they all where the blindfold goggles.
    
    And one of the blind swimmers last night only lost her sight in the last year. She was a competitive swimmer, who thought her swimming career was over until she discovered Parasport, which has been a major factor in helping her to adjust to life without sight.
    
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    September 1, 2021 11:36am
kowtow

Another Ferald anti Collins ( and Seymour) cartoon.

I suppose it would be too hard for them to run one on the importance of accountability to parliament ( the people) and how two parties couldn’t be bothered to turn up , while labour simply wants to suspend the constitution altogther.

Talking of the importance of parliament ; someone pointed out that the ‘Little Turd’ Menendez March used his status as an essential worker ( MP) to FIFO and queue jump MIQ and yet his party says parliament is not so essential afterall .

No wonder they want to keep everyone stoned and have 16 year olds vote.
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September 1, 2021 8:44am
Yvette

“Misleading information”
Collins asked Ardern: “Did the Government tell Pfizer to slow down delivery of vaccines?”
Ardern accused Collins of sharing “misleading information”, saying the comments made by Hipkins were taken out of context.
“We have over 10 million doses of Pfizer for our country’s roll-out. That is more than the number of people that are even eligible for a vaccine,” Ardern said.
“What the Minister for COVID-19 Response was referring to, was as we reach the point where all of those vaccines are delivered, how can we ensure that we see no wastage for the fact that we have more doses than we have people eligible to receive them and we have expiries for vaccines for the RNA vaccine that are at best four months.
“I wish the [member] would pay more attention to the detail in the minister’s statements rather than misleading people.” …
– https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/08/jacinda-ardern-accuses-judith-collins-of-sharing-misleading-information-in-covid-19-vaccine-debate.html

but from the same article –
Ardern said the Government will not run out of vaccines. The problem is the bulk of deliveries from Pfizer will arrive in October.
With more than 90,000 doses administered some days, Associate Health Minister Dr Ayesha Verrall told The AM Show on Monday that level could only be sustained for a few more weeks.
The Government is currently trying to source more vaccines to meet the high demand, and an announcement is expected this week. In the worst case scenario, the roll-out would revert back to the original plan, with around 50,000 doses a day.

So, Ardern accuses Collins of sharing “misleading information”, but Ardern says “We have over 10 million doses of Pfizer …“ but then “…the bulk of deliveries from Pfizer will arrive in October”.
and while we have “more than the number of people that are even eligible for a vaccine”, “the Government is currently trying to source more vaccines to meet the high demand.”

To be more pedantic: “ordered” is not the same as “have”, and is surely a little misleading as well.
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September 1, 2021 8:46am
- septic skeptic
  
  The Newshub headline for their article discussing this exchange was “Ardern accuses Collins of spreading covid mis-information”. I would say that shows distinct bias.
  
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  September 1, 2021 12:47pm
krazykiwi

Any economics wonks in the room? It’s not my thing, so I’m keen on views on what threat (if any?) New Zealand’s debt mountain and productivity poses on our economy 2-5 year out. Any takers?
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September 1, 2021 8:47am
- Bill Felt
  
  A Labour Government and Debt are positively correlated!
  Going woke and productivity increases are negatively correlated!
  
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  September 1, 2021 8:57am
  - PhilBest
    
    I say Ludwig Von Mises will be proved right – expansion of the money supply will ultimately cause the breakdown of the entire system. There is an assumption that because the USA and other inflating countries are not Zimbabwe yet, they are never going to be. So let’s carry right on trying to be!
    
    “The Great Reset” is the global elites Plan to “rescue” us when it happens. They are expecting it to happen – they are not conniving in the monetary policy “orthodoxies” because they think they are harmless; they aim to make a killing now, and make another one when “the reset” becomes necessary.
    
    A GREAT listen on these points, is James Delingpole’s latest podcast with a guy named Dan Tubb:
    
    https://delingpole.podbean.com/e/dan-tubb/
    
    Never heard of Dan Tubb before but he certainly says the same things as I would about most of this.
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:09am
- cmm
  
  I’m not an economist, but I think the can can be kicked further down the road. 2 to 5 years is perhaps not the problem so much as 10-20 years is. We now have a pile of dept that needs a generation of frugal living to pay off.
  
  Debt is a bit of a pyramid scheme. Many of the countries we like to think we are on par with (USA, UK etc) have far worse debt than we do. While everyone is packing on the debt we can get away with it too.
  
  At some stage the debt bomb goes off and then those with too much debt will get nailed.
  
  We pretty much cruised through the GFC (yes there were some impacts), because we were in a better position than most countries (eg. no sub-prime mortgages and lower debt burdens going in gave us more maneuvering space).
  
  Next time around, things won’t be that easy. On top of that we now have a population that is far more entitled and has forgotten how belt-tightening works and feels.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:00am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I would add that this government is increasing the size of the state and the burden of regulation. Eventually that is going to make productivity subside. Add on the failing education system and the permanent under class on welfare and it is a bleak picture. People have an illusion of prosperity because of house prices. But a country can’t generate real wealth by selling houses to each other. It needs to drive productivity.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:07am
    - cmm
      
      Yes, completely right there.
      
      Productivity is unmeasured so it is very hard to see what is happening, but clearly increases in the non-productive sectors have been rampant (eg. government, non-useful education).
      
      GDP does not live up to its name. It does not measure productivity. The newly added 300+ communications/spin staff that are cranking out PowerPoints count as GDP but are not productive.
      
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      September 1, 2021 9:26am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I’m surprised National does not all out attack the growth in the public service. An extra 20,000 servants since 2017. Amazing.
        
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        September 1, 2021 3:08pm
    - westernScientest
      
      An increasing number living of a decreasing number doesn’t end well.
      
      People need to produce things in an economy, not just be given currency.
      
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      September 1, 2021 10:20am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    PIGS debt has ballooned during covid (Italy in particular). Failure of Euro can’t be too far away – and that has to have devastating impact on global economy.
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:53am
  - Bob
    
    Most of the population, have no idea what a belt is!
    
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    September 1, 2021 12:11pm
    - gravedodger
      
      @Bob 12 11
      Betting the Guy assaulted by police for refusing to wear a mask at a Christchurch Countdown does though Bob?
      
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      September 1, 2021 4:45pm
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Real economists are getting a rare as real journalist.
  
  In jacinda speak be kind everything will be just fine if we are just kind to each other.
  
  Especially once we have implemented our authoritarian big government command economy, and delt to those evil small business exploiters.
  
  Be afraid be very afraid, this will all end very badly.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:03am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Depends who holds the govt reins.
  I don’t believe Cinders will still be in her fireplace.
  My expectation is very rough times ahead, not just for NZ but globally. We are connected through banks and trade so follies elsewhere can impact us too.
  
  We cannot afford to let a bunch of bumbling amateurs continue as our lifeguards. Every day gives more opportunity for trouble which compounds.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:06am
- Inandout
  
  krazy, the theories abound over national debt but the rules of finance remain set in concrete.
  https://www.heritage.org/budget-and-spending/report/the-many-real-dangers-soaring-national-debt
  Read on McDuff.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:07am
- kevn
  
  @kk… Higher risk economy = higher interest rates is how I see it. Sadly.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:28am
- RoboRob
  
  High debt is bad, high inflation is very bad.
  
  However there are some exceptions. If you are a government with High debt AND high inflation occurs (world wide) the $ value of the debt doesn’t change but the real value decreases. High inflation is actually good for governements with high debt. It is just terrible for their people! Governments know this (well perhaps not ours)
  
  Example
  NZ owes 50 USD
  NZ GDP 100USD
  Loan is 50% of GDP
  
  Inflation occurs (value of the USD drops)
  NZ still owes 50 USD
  NZ GDP 200USD
  Loan is now 25% of GDP. Politicians can say ‘we have reduced our debt to 25% of GDP’ without having paid back anything.
  
  In the example above the govt could pay back the debt more easily but is more likely just to borrow more money back up to 50%. The population however will find their big mac combo now costs $16 rather than $8 and the $1000 they had saved in the bank is now worth half as much in real terms.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:36am
- rjay
  
  I am an economist. I have been predicting interest rates to rise for the last 5 years so feel free to ignore what I say next which is a 5000 word paper diluted to a few words. The debt will be “washed away” by inflation. This will not be of concern to asset holders (houses) as their mortgages become easier to pay. The nominal value of houses will increase but lower than the cpi rate.
  Those whose incomes fail to keep up with inflation will suffer.
  Those who lose jobs due to lower consumption will suffer assuming the Phillips curve becomes relevant again.
  To Joe Public the effect will be a lower standard of living relative to other countries. Joe may or may not notice this.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:56am
  - kowtow
    
    ‘Joe may or may not notice this’
    
    Early on in Jaxes’ First Reign petrol prices spiked and her popularidy dropped , of course that changed but when her swing voters start to feel the higher price pain that’s already hitting , they’ll start squealing like the herd animals they are.
    
    A lot depends though on how her spin masters in the msm manage the message on her behalf.
    
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    September 1, 2021 11:26am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Joe is likely to just leave for Oz.
    
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    September 1, 2021 11:57am
- westernScientest
  
  I dont consider myself an economics wonk, but do find macro interesting, and know a little bit, not much.
  
  The debt we have taken on would have been impossible to take on in the free market, because it would have pushed interest rates up too much for the debt to be serviceable, pushing rate higher because the risk of default goes up. This is why the reserve bank started the LSAP, now technically they were not printing money to buy debt off the government, but they used intermediaries to do it, so in practice it was the same thing.
  
  Most of our public debt is in the New Zealand dollar. There are two ways a government with a sovereign currency can effectively default on debt, the normal way, refusing to pay it, and to inflate it away through the reduction in value of the currency.
  
  It is important to no think of 1NZD = 1NZD, or even 1NZD = 0.7USD, while there is fluctuation due to speculation, the value of a currency is the value of what that countries economy produces divided by the amount of currency. This is important, the massive printing of the NZD did not coincide with a massive increase in the production of goods and services, so for the same amount of goods and services, there are now more dollars to buy them.
  
  The institutions have been controlling the flow of that currency, and their have been primary beneficiaries, the people who labour give currency to, this is partly the benefit class which has pushed up costs of living, but not that much, the other class is the troughers, think of the massive amounts of money spent on increasing the public service staff and contractors, and companies fulfilling government contracts. This is the mechanism to move that printed currency into the real economy. Primarily we have seen that currency move into housing prices, because government has increase the number of people and the wages of the upper middle class, and simultaneously the reserve bank has kept interest rates low meaning these people can now pay a lot more for houses, because it is the only place they can really invest it and get a return, because interest rates are so low, and stocks are scary for people.
  
  So the increase in housing prices was the immediate impact of the public debt taken on. There is a supply side push inflation going on within imported goods, and goods which rely on imported goods, because of some global market forces, high commodity prices, chip shortages, etc. and supply chain issues. RBNZ monetary policy has little impact on these, low rates, prices go up because it is cause things way out of their control, increase interest rates, supply goes down because companies afford to borrow to pay the high prices to get the imported goods, so local prices go up to chase the small supply.
  
  It is important to remember that NZ has a lot less control of our monetary policy than we think. It is driven by our large trading partners, the US FED, the ECB, the BOE, the CCP etc. Lets just stick with the FED but its the same for all of them. If the FED prints USD, and we dont, our exchange rate goes up with respect to the USD (more usd chacing the same number of NZD), making our exports in the USD more expense, and hence less desirable in the US market, so we cant get USD, to buy imports. Yeah the dollar is high, but that doesnt mean others will trade it, what do they get out of it. If speculates think it will go up, sure we can trade it, but when they dont think it will keep going up, say for example the FED starts to taper their QE, then our goods will be expensive, and no one will want the NZD. It is important to keep a fairly stable currency value compered to trading partners, so that businesses have some confidence in making investments. So the printing of money has kept us in line with our trading partners more or less, but at the expense of the existing and coming inflation.
  
  A note on GDP: GDP can go up and does go up in an inflationary environment, as it is now. That is not indicative of a strong economy, it is indicative of inflation. GDP goes up when people are spending more on more goods, a strong economy, and when people are spending more on less goods, a weak economy.
  
  Going forward 2-5 years, I can see a few paths, but all lead to inflation and a continuation of negative real rates (inflation is higher than what banks will pay you in interest). Similar to the post war period, or the 70s stagflation.
  
  1) The RBNZ makes no attempt to control inflation, possibly restarts LSAP to let the government spend more and take on more debt, causing an ever increasing inflation spiral (hyperinflation), this will quite possibly get out of control and destroy the currency, but this may occur at the same rate as our trading partners resulting in a stableish dollar but very high inflation (10s, 100s %PA, I dont know) globally. It will destroy savers who have not diversified, and a lot who have. This is probably the worsted case scenario. Think Zimbabwe, Venezuela, Argentina, Romania in the 90s, but on a global scale. Or possibly just national, but that would be a result of a Leftist dictatorship rather than the fiscal corner that the west has painted themselves into collectively.
  
  2) The RBNZ raises rates and it causes a bit of a taper tantrum in the markets, mortgage holders get squeezed, and we go into recession. If RBNZ holds their nerves refuses to lower rates, some over leveraged people will sadly have to sell their houses in a falling market as they cant service the debt and the taxes, but it will not result in runaway inflation as the interest rates will keep the supply of money down. I dont see real rates becoming positive until debt to GDP is back down near below 20% or so though. I see this as the best road currently. Note the debt to GDP will lower through inflation, rather than throw actually paying it down with severer austerity, as that would cause a 30s style depression, effectively increasing the debt to GDP even as it is absolute value of the debt is paid down. While I think the best cause of action currently, it would also probably be the slowest and require the most discipline by both the government and the RBNZ, which is why I am not overoptimistic this path will be taken.
  
  3) The RBNZ and others walks a middle road and we get 70s style stag-flation. I think this is the most likely outcome world wide, where we see increasing inflation and increasing rates, with negative real rates for a decade or so. Both inflation and rates could easily end up in the 10s of %. Its not as bad as the first option, but will still destroy a lot of businesses, home owners, anyone with diversified savings etc.
  
  There are some other unlikely options, like a change in US FED and US government, to some libertarians who so something sensible like put the USD back on the gold standard or something. Which would pretty much fix a lot of the problems overnight. But is politically unpalatable because governments would have to tax honestly for their spending, rather than taxing though inflation. Very unlikely, but we can dream.
  
  As far as the ‘the next generation will have to pay it off’ argument goes, yeah, kind of, but I dont really see it happening though taxes, I think it is much much more likely to be people with saving, and the middle class that will pay it off through inflation. Remember, almost no-one in power lived through the 70s inflation (I didnt either to be fair), so dont have any fear of inflation and dont realise the devastation it can cause and how fast it can get out of control.
  
  A bit of a rant, but hopefully some things to think about.
  
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  September 1, 2021 10:12am
  - westernScientest
    
    I should add quickly too, currency driven inflation is driven by the quantity of currency, but also the rate at which it changes hands.
    
    The current velocity of money is quite low, and houses, where we have seen most of the currency go, are very illiquid assets. If people end up having to sell their houses, or the market spooks and sells, a lot of currency will move into higher liquidity assets and products. If this happens, even if we dont print any more currency, we could see the value of the NZD go down a lot (prices go up) although if it happens in our trading partners currencies as well, we will not see it reflected much in our exchange rates.
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:32am
    - rjay
      
      Good point.
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:17am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Thank you. Not a rant at all. It’s nice to learn something other than Covid-19 stuff today. I’m reviewing (non family home) investments circa $1m most of which are offshore. So getting lots of commentary is helping inform my decisions.
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:37am
    - westernScientest
      
      Take it with a big pinch of salt, just my opinions, and it feels even more crystal ball gazing than the covid stuff.
      
      While I think the Austrian economists have the best ideas about how things ‘should’ be and how people behave in economies and are worth reading. I think you have mentioned Hayek before, but there are modern ones like Peter Schiffs podcast, and decent Keynesian like macromavens, and even EconomicsExplained channel is pretty good. It is definitely worth going and reading/watching the likes of Stephanie Kelton and Warren Mosler and there is an Australian as well, I cant remember his name, who pump MMT (modern monetary theory). As MMT seems to be where we are heading globally in the medium term. MMT is kind of like neo-keynesian economics its is a socialists wet dream if to be able to print and spend money endlessly with no consequences. Its not really new, it is pretty much what the modern states which failed, in part, because of hyperinflation have done.
      
      The debates between austrians and MMTs are good, because you get both sides of the argument at once.
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:02am
      - krazykiwi
        
        I had a friend enthusiastically proselytizing MMT to me recently. Even with my limited economic capability it sounded like a giant ponzi scheme whereby everyone other than the state would be quietly, and politely relieved of their wealth.
        
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        September 1, 2021 12:19pm
      - Taieri
        
        MMT is kind of like neo-keynesian economics its is a socialists wet dream if to be able to print and spend money endlessly with no consequences. Its not really new, it is pretty much what the modern states which failed, in part, because of hyperinflation have done.
        ——————-
        
        Dearly departed Soviet Union practiced this with a great success until its demise. They didn’t call it MMT then though.
        
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        September 1, 2021 12:53pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Yesterday the PM insisted there is no problem with the vaccine roll-out and everyone can their shots when they want them and Judith Collins was spreading misinformation about running out of vaccines this month.

Today Ashley Bloomfield states that Auckland will now take priority for the vaccines..and the rest of the country will have to wait.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018810532/covid-19-vaccines-could-be-prioritised-to-auckland-bloomfield
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September 1, 2021 8:51am
- CherryCat
  
  I’m just glad that we don’t have to make this stuff up. Because, as the saying goes, you couldn’t!
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:00am
- cmm
  
  Wow, the lying (inaudible) lied. Who would have thought that!
  
  Even with the Auckland prioritisation they will have to slow things down to keep pretending the vaccines haven’t run out.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:02am
- I remember when
  
  Have seen an email saying that people can book in for immediate vaccination at our DHB site.
  Even if there is a booking made for a future date it can be cancelled and booked for the next day.
  Cancellation of email due?
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:05am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  When the PM says we do not have a problem, we have a huge problem.
  
  When the PM says she is going to fix a problem, she somehow makes it worse.
  
  Every decision is based on ideology, it is inevitable that there will be some collateral damage.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:08am
Captain Mainwaring

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Judith is looking a bit unwell and has developed a short fuse. Is she under pressure from within?
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September 1, 2021 8:59am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Who would not have a short fuse after encountering Cinders?
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:07am
- Wired-one
  
  Good on her for firing up. It’s frankly ridiculous that the media are questioning her on why she needs to hold the government to account. That’s her fucking job morons! And yes democracy is essential. God I’m sick of this nonsense, same thing happened last time when Bridges was asking questions of Ardern. Is she beyond reproach?
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:08am
  - PhilBest
    
    I wish Judith (or Simon or whoever else might be leader) would just go full Trump and call Fake News “the enemy of the people”.
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:11am
  - citychic
    
    Absolutely agree, that “interview” was a total hit job and good on Ms Collins for not taking that rubbish without pushing back.
    Funny how the Jacinda acolytes are very sensitive to any criticism and questioning of their darling.
    
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    September 1, 2021 10:49am
- Inandout
  
  CM, she has been vaccinated so I wouldn’t worry too much.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:10am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Play school TV1 pissed her off and she let loose. About time
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:10am
  - Tricati
    
    Couldn’t agree more – Clearly an orchestrated campaign to attack Collins to deflect from the bloody shambles Ardern is overseeing.
    
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    September 1, 2021 9:48am
- alloytoo
  
  I approve of the short fuse, it most definitely reflects how some of us are feeling.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:15am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Ardern is the one with a short fuse. No mics or cameras and she is quite a handful
    
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    September 1, 2021 12:59pm
- kevn
  
  @Captn… Aren’t you tired of the bullsh*t?
  Everyone else is.
  The Pulpit of Truth has become a standing joke.
  Like an orchestrated comic duo. Followed by the pre planned question answer time.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:33am
- MCos
  
  I remember when Andrew Little was Leader of the Opposition and had similar problems maintaining his composure.
  He was lambasted on this forum and referred to as Angry Andy for his troubles.
  Down the slippery polls he went because there’s nothing worse than a leader who losses their rag.
  BTW
  You don’t see David Seymour lose his cool and he’s taken a hammering from assertive interviewers over the years.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:36am
  - Yabster
    
    assertive? – good one comrade- biased, left leaning, socialist, bribed- any of those worlds are more appropriate.
    
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    September 1, 2021 11:24am
I remember when

Some scientific debate on whether variants, rather than being accumulated from many individuals, may be from single people.
Suggested examples are, were there is chronic infection, lasting months, that gives time for mutations to accumulate and become dominant.
Or, Covid-19 treatments may accelerate evolution in chronic patients with little or no immunity. The compromised immune system allows the virus to bypass the bodies normal protection.
Have our attempts to protect the most vulnerable resulted in the virus evolving even further.
The suggestion is that Epsilon, and more especially Gamma, variant is going to be less successful in preventing infections.
This is due to their evolving further from the original variants for which the vaccine was produced.
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September 1, 2021 9:01am
Wired-one

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/covid-19-delta-outbreak-judith-collins-blasts-ridiculous-tvnz-breakfast-interview-with-indira-stewart/O3DJ22PVZCMOOPLJLDZGU4VKTM/

More hit pieces on Judith for daring to question darling Jacinda. Disgraceful.
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September 1, 2021 9:05am
- alloytoo
  
  The greater the flak, the more on target you are.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:17am
- kevn
  
  @Wired… and who is this Indira person?
  Just chucking out silly trip-up questions.
  Collins was quite restrained I thought.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:35am
  - kowtow
    
    Gosh ,for the Media Pardy to put the same pressure on those who actually are in power……
    
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    September 1, 2021 11:08am
- kowtow
  
  Defund state broadcasters .
  
  And stop underwriting “commercial” ones.
  
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  September 1, 2021 11:07am
- Cinematic
  
  Wow, Indira is rude.
  
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  September 1, 2021 11:25am
  - Paulus
    
    Actually never heard of her anyway but Cindy will now.
    Another dolly trying to make a name for herself – she has a lot of competition doesn’t she Tova.
    
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    September 1, 2021 1:10pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Is that her name? Funny really because I watch that show with the sound muted because whenever that Campbell Kritter opens his mouth, I want to spew and seeing as I watch it in bed, I’m not sure I should be listening as well.
    I prefer to listen to Hosking while that crap is on.
    
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    September 1, 2021 2:09pm
thirteenstars

Mission creep.

COVID regulations have recently entered the realm of all modern law insofar as it’s become very difficult for the average citizen to make sense of them and to know what their obligations are at any particular moment. As complexity increases, so does ignorance. We have no choice but to obey directions immediately lest we unknowingly violate a rule.

After the first great wave of COVID 18 months ago, Kiwis felt pretty smug as we watched the rest of the world go through its miseries. Safely behind vast oceans we twiddled our thumbs, waiting for others to save us, which they did with their vaccines. Then we found out vaccines, while very useful, don’t prevent the spread of the virus and have less effect over time. This revealed NZ’s elimination strategy to be a lie.

Then along came Delta–as it was *always* bound to come along–and the lie became even more bald. And so here we are, doubly regulated, hiding in our Antipodean redoubt, again waiting for some miracle from outside (hint: it’s not coming), while the rest of the world gets on with living–having accepted the virus is now endemic–and we bankrupt ourselves and sacrifice our freedoms upon the holy altar of a eliminating something that can never be eliminated.
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September 1, 2021 9:09am
- Stu2
  
  I agree that zero covid has no future
  
  But what would you do in an outbreak with 600+ cases, 36 in hospital of which 8 are in ICU/HDU?
  
  And only 24% of the popn double vaccinated, 45% single vaccinated (as of Aug 30).
  
  Level 1 everywhere? Seen the load the NSW hsopitals are under?
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:47am
  - Cinematic
    
    Sensible restrictions as Sweden applied some 19 months ago.
    
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    September 1, 2021 11:27am
  - thirteenstars
    
    Oh, that’s not the question.
    
    As I rhetorically asked in another comment today:
    
    “given that vaccines reduce the rate of infection but don’t prevent infection, especially of new variants, what level of community transmission (that is: deaths) will be acceptable at say, 90% vaccination rates, without NZ going in and out of perpetual, expensive and freedom-destroying lockdowns?”
    
    And my suggestion was:
    
    “The answer under the elimination strategy is a firm: none.
    
    Can you see this PM, and her experts, making a statement akin to: now that we’ve achieved high levels of vaccination, further outbreaks will not be met with lockdowns and denial of freedoms.”
    
    And that’s a fact. The government has never so much as intimated that once good vaccination levels have been achieved, elimination will no longer make sense.
    
    The agenda is elimination come hell or high water, and most importantly, regardless of the vaccination levels.
    
    So I ask you: at 90% vax levels, what is the acceptable rate of death in the absence of lockdowns? As many as a normal year of flu deaths, which the data tells us is 500?
    
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    September 1, 2021 11:45am
    - Stu2
      
      There has been an approach to opening up discussed, it is based on the risk of where the traveller is going/coming from. It is based on a report from Prof Skegg’s team.
      
      So no, it is not explicitly based on acceptable death levels. But they are inherient.
      
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/449010/covid-19-risk-based-border-to-open-from-early-2022-pm-jacinda-ardern
      
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      September 1, 2021 1:56pm
      - thirteenstars
        
        That report doesn’t talk about acceptable deaths because it’s clear elimination is the only strategy.
        
        It’s not a question of “opening up”. Hell, we were somewhat opened up for the past year. The question is, when we are opened up and transmission occurs, and we have high levels of vax, why the need for further lockdowns?
        
        If the answer is, because vaccinations reduce but don’t prevent infections, and any infections must be met with elimination lockdowns, then we haven’t advanced the ball at all. In effect, we can *never* be free of the spectre of lockdowns and all the damage they entail. As I’ve said, a perpetual state of emergency.
        
        Yet for as long as anyone can remember, we have accepted that many hundreds every year die from flu while also accepting the flu vaccine only reduces the rate of infection and severity of symptoms.
        
        Let’s look at one last thing. The population-equivalent comparison between Sweden’s non-lockdown strategy shows that some 7,000 would have died in NZ.
        
        But in a vaccinated country, the number of dead will drastically reduce and the burden on hospitals of those that can successfully saved will be far less. That’s more than flu deaths but far less than 7,000.
        
        Compared with the destruction of our national credit, the psychological damage, the suicides and the loss of freedoms, that price has to be considered reasonable to pay.
        
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        September 1, 2021 2:38pm
  - thirteenstars
    
    And further, sanity, courage and honesty like the PM of Israel’s appeal to his people:
    
    https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/israeli-pm-appeals-to-public-and-details-national-plan-to-fight-delta-wave
    
    My God, how refreshing. And how inspiring.
    
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    September 1, 2021 12:04pm
- PhilBest
  
  I have been looking at the GD as I have time this morning and it looks like no-one else has posted THIS:
  
  https://www.ukcolumn.org/community/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/21-07-10-d-Heterodoxies-v-NZG.pdf
  
  There is a claim being made in a Court Action which is staggering if it is true, that the genetic sequence that the “Covid PCR tests” look for, exists in several places in THE HUMAN GENOME ITSELF.
  
  I suspect this is the work of Reiner Fuellmich’s team, and “The Heterodoxy Society of NZ” are his local collaborators (using that word in a good sense).
  
  The whole document is worth skimming, even though I think it fatally undermines itself with some of its claims.
  
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  September 1, 2021 10:16am
Don Beckett

The Covid BS is continuing in California. Tony Heller checks out the panic headlines, and guess what.?
https://realclimatescience.com/2021/08/mortuarys-filled-beyond-capacity/
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September 1, 2021 9:09am
- Inandout
  
  Don, California is a cot case with appalling poverty and homelessness, excessive taxes and yes, run by Dems of the Pelosi type.
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:13am
- thirteenstars
  
  Sanity might make a return if Gov. Newsom is recalled.
  
  The process is pretty interesting and open to strategy:
  
  California voters face two questions on the ballot. The first is a “yes” or “no” on whether Mr. Newsom should be recalled. The second is who should replace him if he is recalled. Voters can pick a candidate on the second question even if they vote “no” on the first. Under California law, Mr. Newsom cannot run to replace himself and there are no other prominent Democrats running. The governor’s campaign is urging supporters to skip the second question.
  
  https://www.wsj.com/articles/gavin-newsom-california-recall-what-to-know-11630411624
  
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  September 1, 2021 9:40am
  - Ed Snack
    
    I see that the Dems in California have decided on a new attack on the leading Republican, Larry Elder. Apparently they have photos of him posing in Blackface !
    
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    September 1, 2021 11:43am
    - thirteenstars
      
      No doubt. They have actually accused him of being a white supremacist.
      
      Larry Elder has libertarian tendencies, which makes him an enemy to the statist hacks that run California. But he’s also inconveniently black. Very black, in fact. Not some self-described “person of colour”, but a proud, well-spoken, intelligent black man. So Elder has to be demonised as an Uncle Tom, or a House Nigger. That is, he’s being paid off by the guys in white hoods to destroy his black brothers and sisters; he’s someone who likes mixing with his white masters and wants to keep living in the big house.
      
      A more despicable line of attack you could not imagine. Yet that’s identity politics through the twisted lens of Critical Race Theory.
      
      It was the same for the millions of blacks, Latinos, LQBTQ, and even Muslims that voted for that well-known racist/sexist/bigot Trump in 2016, and the *larger* numbers of those groups that voted for him in 2020. They all had to be traitors to their “identity”. They couldn’t be making a rational voting decision. No, they, like Larry Elder, had to be filled with so much self-loathing they would vote for their own destruction.
      
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      September 1, 2021 1:08pm
  - Adroit
    
    California is done. It’s demographic changes have seen to that. It’s rotting from the inside, and the only question is when and how it fails. Failing infrastructure, no water, crime, poverty and homelessness.
    
    Whether Gov. Newsom is recalled or not, sanity has long left, never to return.
    
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    September 1, 2021 5:08pm
    - thirteenstars
      
      Perhaps. It’s the greatness of US federal competitiveness. The Founders set this up exactly for these reasons. They knew states would go in different directions and they saw that it was good. And people vote with their feet, and boy, do they do it in spades.
      
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      September 1, 2021 7:10pm
      - Adroit
        
        Perhaps. How do you reverse demographics with the current cultural and economic morass? Furthermore, once settled in the US, those migrants are then free to follow the exodus themselves, further spreading the rot. Can restrictions be placed upon people moving between States? I would assume not.
        
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        September 2, 2021 11:44am
Rusty

Still only 26 people have died in NZ of covid and none as far as I know of the delta strain.

300-400 die every year of the common flu in NZ and our Govt and health officials accept their is no way of eliminating that virus

Yet the narrative is covid is more dangerous and “potentially” can kill more people. Something is wrong in this country with our health priorities.
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September 1, 2021 9:11am
- Paul Marsden
  
  No one in New Zealand has died of covid, they have died with covid.
  
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  September 1, 2021 11:50am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Not my recollection. Sure some died with, but not all.
    
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    September 1, 2021 12:57pm
- kowtow
  
  And our police priorities.
  
  From newshub ;
  
  “Police Commissioner Andrew Coster later said police had “a low tolerance for unlawful gatherings, but particularly in the context of a Delta variant outbreak”.”
  
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  September 1, 2021 12:35pm
- gravedodger
  
  And crickets on the deaths from RSV that I know was a factor in two passings
  
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  September 1, 2021 4:57pm
Muttonbird

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
After crying about parliament not sitting in the house and insisting on risking the rest of the country by travelling during a virus outbreak, leader of one of the minor parties, Judith Collins, is now blaming Jacinda for not delaying parliament long enough.
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September 1, 2021 9:18am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Do you have a source for that allegation Muttonbird, or are you just making shit up like you normally do?
  
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  September 1, 2021 10:58am
  - Muttonbird
    
    Asked on The AM Show on Wednesday why MPs couldn’t have waited one more day to meet, Collins said it was a question for Ardern, not her.
    
    “You should ask the Prime Minister. She had the option to suspend Parliament for another week or another day. She chose not to. In fact, she said she didn’t want to do that again. So you’d better ask her about that.”
    
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/coronavirus-judith-collins-says-no-point-worrying-about-source-of-covid-19-outbreak-ardern-should-deal-with-it-or-accept-she-can-t-change-it.html
    
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    September 1, 2021 11:08am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      She’s stating a fact. It was the PM’s decision to suspend Parliament last week, and it was the PM’s decision to resume Parliament this week, even if she had to be dragged kicking and screaming into making that decision.
      
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      September 1, 2021 11:32am
  - Yabster
    
    that would be the making shit up part- trolls gotta troll…
    
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    September 1, 2021 11:26am
ABS4EVA

Good Article on Global Times

About the
Famous Naked Sheep Farming Socialist Communist
from New Zealand

Who Started the Industrialisation of Communist CHINA

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202108/1231411.shtml

China’s Cause is My Own Cause — Rewi Alley’s Sixty Years in China
By Global Times
Published: Aug 13, 2021 06:08 PM

Print it out and Carry a copy with you when
you

Bow or Genreflect

in front of Maos Maorie Feather Cloak in Te Papa

Comrades

Be Kind to one another

And yes he was also a Pioneer or Nude Sheep Farming and that is not to diminish his contribution to CHina

There are photographs of REWI running around
naked on his sheep farm in NZ

SO progressive and so Ahead of his Time

A Visionary in fact.
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September 1, 2021 9:21am
Odakyu-sen

Here’s a new word: Covid racism.

Does “Covid racism” mean that equality of outcomes was not achieved?
(Regardless of how much was spent on publicity and efforts to lower barriers to getting the shot, such as bringing special jab centers close to the target population and providing language services to guide them towards the needle?)

The fundamental assumption behind “______ racism” is that all races, cultures or religions are the same.
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September 1, 2021 9:25am
- Fletch
  
  Here’s another word I came up with last night – covidiot… (at least, I’ve never heard anyone else use it – maybe they have).
  
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  September 1, 2021 11:05am
- Liberal Cliche
  
  This was pushed early by the human rights commission in NZ. Did you not get the 2 step memo?
  
  Step 1 sneeze into your elbow
  
  Step 2 don’t be racist or xenophobic
  
  Not even joking it’s still there….
  
  https://collections.tepapa.govt.nz/object/1870587
  
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  September 1, 2021 3:24pm
I remember when

“Cabinet exploring second phase evacuation from Afghanistan.”
“And, the effect resettlement would have on New Zealand.”
“We are very mindful that the safety of getting people to an extraction point is somewhat precarious at this moment.”
“The number seeking help from New Zealand may change.” (if eligibility criteria shifted.)”
So, I guess being alive would be the first eligibility criteria needed.
“In terms of those who find their own way to third party countries.”
That being likely to be the only ones.
Anyone notice that when the shit hits the fan Aotearoa disappears.
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September 1, 2021 9:28am
Gulag1917

Not only aircraft is needed but also boots on the ground with firepower. NZ has a peacekeeping military that would be useless in a conflict. Australia would have to come to our rescue. Bludging Kiwis.
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September 1, 2021 9:33am
I remember when

Newshub: Bloomfield: Auckland could be out of Level 4 before new cases hit zero.
Why don’t the Labour Government announce their own decisions.
More smoke and mirrors.
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September 1, 2021 9:34am
Joe Kerr

Yet another “palagi supremacists abuse Polynesian people online” news article today. I have noted in the 3 or 4 articles I have read from the past month that this supposed hate speech is never quoted, no names are given, and no one is being charged with any indecency or hate crimes. Without any evidence and such a sudden obsession it appears more like we have a crop of online Jessie Smolletts seeking to stir up racial unrest.
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September 1, 2021 9:37am
- kowtow
  
  Neo Marxism : identify a ruling class , direct hatred at them , divide and rule.
  
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  September 1, 2021 11:02am
- Ehlana
  
  Was it this one: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-teuila-fuatai-health-ministry-must-acknowledge-its-role-in-covid-racism/M6TEY74D6DYCVRQNCWIAWSPSOI/?
  
  What I found interesting was this:
  “A lot of our church community would be English second-language,” Mika said.
  
  “So even a mainstream person ringing someone and saying things like ‘Are you a close contact or secondary contact’ doesn’t really work. They’re trying to understand what [the contact tracer] is saying, let alone the jargon being used.”
  
  I thought immigrants had to meet an English language standard to settle here? If that standard is not sufficient for them to understand and participate in emergency measures around a pandemic, it isn’t high enough. There won’t always be interpreters available, or time or resources to tailor messages to every conceivable group. We should aim to ensure that everyone can understand the messages in one of our three official languages.
  
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  September 1, 2021 2:47pm
Bobba Fret

Has anyone heard what has happened to the person from WHO that we brought in to the country from Fiji? Have they recovered? Are they still in hospital?
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September 1, 2021 9:50am
- Yabster
  
  nope and of course the media has not followed that up….
  
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  September 1, 2021 11:27am
  - Paulus
    
    No assume they have been told to STFU as she is a friend of H1.
    
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    September 1, 2021 1:14pm
- doggone7
  
  Write to someone, anyone, everyone who might know since the answer hasn’t been forthcoming here. Get a politician to ask a question in Parliament. Throw stones in the pools that matter.
  
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  September 1, 2021 1:10pm
Stu2

Stuart Nash has taken leave of his senses

“Labour MP Stuart Nash is so confident that 90 per cent of New Zealanders will be vaccinated by Christmas that he’s even bet a case of award-winning wine on it”

Just look at the over 65s who have been eligible for ages. 82.8% with a first dose. I would expect them to be 90%+ by now if 90% was likely for the entire popn

And if he means 90% over the entire popn then those eligible would have to be 91%-92%
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September 1, 2021 10:08am
- Ed Snack
  
  What’s the plonk he’s offering, if a case of “The Terraces” I’d be a starter to get that !
  
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  September 1, 2021 11:45am
- Libertarians are right
  
  About 20% of our population is 0-14 so if he’s worded it 90% of New Zealanders he fails immediately. Note that he was formerly the Minister of Statistics too.
  
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  September 1, 2021 2:14pm
Isobar

Yesterday i posted how National and Act need to make Question Time count with the resumption of parliament at their request otherwise they will suffer the backlash of their decision making.

Sadly, I personally think they fell totally flat – even Seymour who usually outperforms Collins – did rather averagely. Their questions were easily answered and batted away by the government. To the non political tragics – yesterday was laughably tame and i would even suggest those that watched yesterday for the first time probably turned off the stream and wont watch today – it was that uninteresting.

They are going to have to do much better today, they got what they asked for so the need to make it count and actually land some punches and change the conversation. They will likely have a larger than usual audience for QT so why not make the most of it?
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September 1, 2021 10:11am
- kowtow
  
  Yep the day to day machinations of our long fought for democracy and freedoms can be really , really boring .
  
  If people don’t get that well perhaps a dictatorship and daily hate sessions with careful drip feeding of information and plenty of theatrics is what would be the sexy , exciting alternative , served up with a side order of KFC ?
  
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  September 1, 2021 10:47am
  - Isobar
    
    Lol no need to be dramatic. Collins pointed out that parliament must return so they could put questions to the government.
    
    They got their wish and the questions they put to them were either out of date or already answered which made them look amateurish.
    
    I mean if this is what you think holding the government to account, I am sure the govt will be happy to make it a daily occurrence.
    
    The proper scrutiny lies in select committees, even in normal times Question time is a joke and purely there for soundbites and PR.
    
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    September 1, 2021 12:03pm
- dcrane
  
  This is partly the opposition’s own fault. The most crushing questions that could be asked – such as why are we last in the OECD in vaccination – only rebound against them. How can they criticize the slow vaccine rollout now when they’ve been watching it happen for months and objecting only weakly at best?
  
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  September 1, 2021 11:21am
Yvette

Urgent building work is underway at Auckland City Hospital to prepare more room for COVID-19 patients.
There were 32 patients in hospitals across the region on Tuesday, 18 of whom were in Middlemore, 12 at Auckland City and two at North Shore.
… At Auckland City Hospital, there are 13 negative pressure rooms, and 12 patients.
The DHBs said there was more capacity across the region if required, including eight negative pressure rooms at North Shore Hospital.
– https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/09/covid-19-urgent-alterations-underway-as-auckland-hospitals-negative-pressure-rooms-near-capacity.html

Intensive care specialist Rob Bevan says even though New Zealand is well-prepared for a worst-case scenario of the current Covid outbreak, the current bed-to-patient ratio is not enough.
Bevan is the vice president of the College of Intensive Care and says the country has “a model of care that is world-leading” after spending the past 18 months working and learning from overseas colleagues who have “borne the brunt of the pandemic”.
He said specialists have been working with DHBs and the Health Ministry to “absolutely maximise our ability to look after as many people as we can, albeit “within the constraints of the capacity that we have”.
Bevan conceded that five [ICU] beds for every 100,000 people would not be enough, meaning other life-saving surgeries would need to be cancelled.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/icu-bed-patient-ratio-not-enough-if-delta-cases-increase-expert-says
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September 1, 2021 10:24am
I remember when

More than 1012 ‘close contacts’ isolating in Wellington.
As of Monday, more than 32,000 contacts have been linked to the outbreak.
So at what stage does elimination become impossible.
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September 1, 2021 10:24am
Michael

Have we been told how long level 3 will last?
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September 1, 2021 10:31am
- miltonF
  
  My guess, a week max until we’re back at level 4. Get your takeaways while you still can folks.
  
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  September 1, 2021 5:02pm
Surely Knott

Fully-vaccinated Paul Stanley is in hospital with Covid , and now fully-vaccinated band member Gene Simmons, who advocates for mandatory vaccination, is also infected. Ah, Ok.

Kid Rocks band has also cancelled concerts due to covid. “The artist took to Twitter to explain that the cancellationsw were due to coronavirus writing, “I am pi–ed. Over half the band has f—ing covid (not me), and before u s— for brains bloggers and media trolls run your mouths, many of them, like me, have been vaccinated.”
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September 1, 2021 10:35am
- thirteenstars
  
  Yes, that’s what you call thick irony.
  
  If the Moral Majority had had their way back in the day, KISS would have been exorcised and crucified, and the same arguments would have been advanced to condemn them as he used to condemn the unvaccinated, viz:
  
  Let’s be honest: You can’t drive through a red light. You don’t have that freedom. You must wear a seatbelt…You’re not allowed to stand up in a movie theater and yell ‘fire’ just because you want to — that’s incitement to riot. So these idiots who are complaining about getting Covid shots or not wearing masks are misunderstanding. They do not have the right to hurt other people. And this is a pandemic and it’s very catchy potentially and you could be infecting other people, which is why I’m a firm believer that this should be a law.
  
  https://deadline.com/2021/08/kiss-postpones-show-at-last-minute-as-paul-stanley-tests-positive-for-covid-19-1234823110/
  
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  September 1, 2021 3:36pm
Maggie Pie

When this trended on Twitter last night, first thing I thort of was…

“How would Simon Dallow handle this?” 🙁

https://mol.im/a/9941179#v-7876111782970241638
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September 1, 2021 10:35am
- graham
  
  I have to say, I am enjoying Wendy Petrie filling in for Simon on One News for the last couple of days. She doesn’t have this annoying habit of trying to rename Parliament to Paremata, Christchurch to Kirihimete, and so on.
  
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  September 1, 2021 10:47am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    It’s not correct in English useage to substitute a transliterated word for the English original.
    
    Pidgin English is not an official language.
    
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    September 1, 2021 12:34pm
  - kowtow
    
    Or his ridiculously over exagerated elongated ” paa see fee ka”
    
    It’s a bloody made up word anyway .
    
    Wokism on steroids.
    
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    September 1, 2021 12:38pm
- MCos
  
  Sports news
  Afghanistan 304-2 (20 overs)
  India 89 all out
  
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  September 1, 2021 10:50am
rangitoto

The rotters killed Geronimo!.
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September 1, 2021 10:41am
kowtow

Yesterday the odt reports a lone paddle boarder who exercised alone on Lake Wakatipu has been charged with breach , today a student who flew from Auckland to Dunedin in breach of L4 , under consideration ……

Watch this space.
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September 1, 2021 10:42am
- kowtow
  
  Further report
  
  ‘In a statement today police said the student would be issued an infringement notice, and had been advised of this today.’
  
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  September 1, 2021 1:56pm
Fletch

Paddy Gower goes full leftie retard and all but blames the visit of “far right” Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux for the Christchurch terror attack, saying that “he failed” in his interview with them, because he let them put their positions. Almost seems like his mea culpa is a way to excuse his bad interview with them.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/08/patrick-gower-on-hate-admission-after-rewatching-stefan-molyneux-lauren-southern-interview.html
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September 1, 2021 10:45am
- Yvette
  
  Fletch – Tarrant’s donations to Stefan Molyneux
  On 15 January 2017 and 17 January 2017, the individual made donations to right-wing organisations, Freedomain Radio (a podcast and YouTube channel created by Canadian Stefan Molyneux, who is prominent member of the far right) and the National Policy Institute (a white supremacist think tank and lobby group based in the United States of America) [1]
  AUD$ 138.89 Freedomain Radio; AUD$ 138.06 National Policy Institute
  
  later –
  Table 4: The individual’s donations to overseas right-wing organisations and individuals while in New Zealand [2]
  
  This includes at least 6 donations of AUD$ larger than that to Freedomin Radio (associated with Molyneux). It appears Tarrant made no donation to any Molyneux related organisation while Tarrant was in New Zealand, which would mean no donation while Canadians Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux were set to speak in Auckland August 3, 2018.
  
  Perhaps the featuring of Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux in Gower’s documentary may have been somewhat selective.
  
  [1] page 180 Report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the terrorist attack on Christchurch masjidain on 15 March 2019 Volume 2 [2] page 194
  
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  September 1, 2021 12:34pm
  - Fletch
    
    Yeh. Paddy is standing on the graves of those killed in the Christchurch attack, using them as a platform to advance his “far right extremest” narrative. His mea culpa gains him sympathy in his seeking to restore his reputation. It doesn’t work for me. It’s a nasty thing to do and not based on any kind of reality.
    
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    September 1, 2021 1:07pm
Michael

Does anyone know how long we [New Zealand excluding Auckland ]are going to be in level 3?
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September 1, 2021 10:56am
- I remember when
  
  Just long enough so that when they change it they will appear to be doing something different.
  They will show they are moving with the ‘science.’
  
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  September 1, 2021 11:07am
- Wired-one
  
  At least a week. It’s then going to be reviewed next week sometime.
  
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  September 1, 2021 11:14am
- krazykiwi
  
  If will go down when they magnanimously decree it so, obviously a result of good management.
  
  It will go up if too many NZers have not obeyed the rules.
  
  Given the only (now discredited) lever this government has is lockdown, and noting the epidemiological certainty of porous borders, we can expect lockdowns to be wielded against us at a moments notice.
  
  In other words, it is not possible to plan our lives. The state will do that for us.
  
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  September 1, 2021 11:28am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  You will have to wait for the announcement about making an announcement about when they might make an announcement
  
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  September 1, 2021 12:56pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  You might get a hint tomorrow afternoon… but 1 week at least.
  
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  September 1, 2021 1:04pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vg6lb42yKo

China Releases Critical Race Theory Propaganda Video.

The Chinese Communist Party has had a field day with racism in the United States, saying it shows that the U.S. has no moral authority to call China out on its poor human rights record. China has even released a propaganda video explaining how to make America less racist, which of course is the opposite of what China wants. Watch this episode of America Uncovered for how black people are treated in China, China’s history with the black US liberation movement, and the lessons we can all learn from China about racism. [7:30]
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September 1, 2021 11:04am
curry4me

https://pix11.com/news/local-news/manhattan/duo-sold-registered-250-fake-covid-vaccine-cards-for-ny-front-line-workers/

Duo sold, registered 250 fake COVID vaccine cards for NY front-line workers.

Two people are accused of selling and registering about 250 fake COVID-19 vaccination cards in New York, Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance said Tuesday.
Jasmine Clifford, 31, is accused of selling 250 forged vaccination cards through her Instagram account, @AntiVaxMomma, and worked with Nadayza Barkley, 27, who fraudulently entered at least 10 people into the New York State Immunization Information System (NYSIIS) database, according to the district attorney. [Wow, I guess nobody saw that coming/sarc.]
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September 1, 2021 11:04am
Michael

Re cancelled operations.
I was booked in to have my triple a hernia stents replaced . I had to travel to Wellington for this procedure. The appointment was at 7.30 a.m last Wednesday so I booked in at a motel and my wife and I travelled down on the Tuesday afternoon . Saw on the 6 o’clock news that we were going to level 4 at 11.59 that night. Decided to go to the hospital the next morning just in case, but no luck. The procedure had been cancelled.
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September 1, 2021 11:13am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Be persistent and keep ringing the hospital for details of when your op will be rescheduled.
  
  All too easy for folks to drop off lists these days.
  
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  September 1, 2021 11:49am
- kevn
  
  @Michael… Sorry to hear that. I went through the same process for a cancelled op last lockdown.
  
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  September 1, 2021 11:59am
gorse

I note a concerted effort to smear Mike Hosking going on lately. First a few dirty cartoons in Stuff, Newshub today running a similarly dirty article on him. All because he is one if the few broadcasters prepared to stand up and ask the questions that need asking. They are pitiful.
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September 1, 2021 11:13am
- Tony Stuart
  
  There’s a petition doing the rounds at the moment calling on NZME to sack Hosking and replace him with someone more to the petitioner’s taste, and some haters are calling on people to boycott companies who advertise on Newstalk ZB because of Hosking. They won’t stop advertising, of course, because why wouldn’t you want to spend your advertising budget on the most listened-to radio programme in the country? Cancel culture is alive and well.
  
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  September 1, 2021 11:40am
  - kowtow
    
    I can’t find the newshub story .
    
    The more important issue is who is behind these petitions to deplatform , unperson media personalities and why .
    
    This is a direct assault on one of the pillars of the wests’ freedoms , a free ,open and critical media
    
    That in itself is the story , will the media run that ?
    
    ps I can’t stand Hosking and can’t listen to him .
    
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    September 1, 2021 12:08pm
    - Muttonbird
      
      He did it himself.
      
      It’s Hoskings talking up Gladys Berejiklian. Nek minute, Gladys sends Delta our way.
      
      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/08/kiwi-s-mock-poorly-aged-old-mike-hosking-quote-on-new-south-wales-covid-19-outbreak.html
      
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      September 1, 2021 12:48pm
      - Libertarians are right
        
        “I asked Ashley Bloomfield on Friday of course if he was a bit trigger happy and even he said it was a line call.
        
        But no one is more conservative than Ashley”
        
        So Hosking did his job and unintelligent idiots are attacking him for it. What a surprise.
        
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        September 1, 2021 2:08pm
      - Salacious Crumb
        
        What about the clips of Bloomfield and Ardern saying how masks aren’t effective so no need for people to wear them?
        
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        September 1, 2021 2:26pm
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        Curious what the media considers ‘quotes which didn’t age well’, as stories in themselves, or what it selects to share from Twitter.
        
        For instance, we note here that Souxie Wiles told the media that we were unlikely to suffer an outbreak of Covid in NZ.
        https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/siouxsie-wiles-on-why-we-are-unlikely-to-see-a-coronavirus-outbreak-in-new-zealand/?fbclid=IwAR0STRdlWAa9WAkGzCcAxHFfk7Wr_AlgzfNiryv-Y7qlHbNyefrK1OpLts4
        
        Mike doesn’t claim to be a journalist but has an opinion which needs to be shot down.
        Yet a colourful self-promoting ‘expert’ having much success in the era of Covid gets it so wrong, and yet the media can’t get enough of her.
        
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        September 1, 2021 2:53pm
  - graham
    
    Seems like there are petitions fairly regularly calling for Mike Hosking to be sacked, not allowed to run the election debates, etc.
    
    They haven’t come to anything yet, and I doubt they ever will. Because as you say, his radio show has – I think – either the largest or the second largest listening audience (which just infuriates those people who hate him even more). Morning Report on RNZ is the main competitor and I think they are virtually neck and neck.
    
    Meanwhile, Mr Hosking just keeps on laying into the Government’s ineptitude and piss-poor record on just about everything, the haters keep frothing at the mouth, and Jacinda tries to garner attention on other radio shows – and fails.
    
    They really don’t like it when people insist on holding them to account, do they?
    
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    September 1, 2021 12:29pm
    - Paulus
      
      The left wing Morning Report is not in the same audience league as Hoskings – where did you get your figures from ? – made em up – not surprised.
      
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      September 1, 2021 1:19pm
      - graham
        
        No, I don’t “make up figures”. I actually got my figures from a couple of different sources.
        
        From here: https://www.newsroom.co.nz/rnz-national-audience-takes-a-tumble
        
        RNZ won’t be content, however, to see its flagship station losing audience and influence and will no doubt be reviewing on-air performance to restore the station’s audience gains from even before the Covid-19 surge last year that took it to 703,000 listeners a week.
        
        Its top rating programme, Morning Report, was off by 45,000 to 434,000 listeners across the week, while its main competitor the Mike Hosking Breakfast on Newstalk ZB rose 25,000 to 421,000. This is the closest result between the two programmes for years.
        
        So the way I read that is that Morning Report had 13,000 more listeners at this point in time (this article was published in May this year).
        
        And from here: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/commercial-radio-ratings-newstalk-zb-and-zm-hit-highest-ever-audiences/2IX4YG6YO4L24HSC4UP2PAAKCQ/
        
        The Mike Hosking Breakfast further cemented its place as New Zealand’s favourite morning radio show, growing by 33,100 listeners.
        
        This was published in October 2020.
        
        Make of them what you will.
        
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        September 1, 2021 3:24pm
    - Hard Cheese
      
      No doubt she’ll come crawling back at election time wanting the biggest audience for her campaigning. If I were in Hosking’s shoes I’d tell her to naff off, you can’t pick and choose because it suits you.
      
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      September 1, 2021 2:13pm
      - info@cruzpro.com
        
        Fantastic advice!
        
        4 0
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        September 1, 2021 7:39pm
- Gravelroad
  
  @gorse-
  They may be pitiful, but are they powerful?
  There are recent precedents for apparently popular broadcasters being “let go” by their employers – at Magic radio for example.
  If someone high up in the Labour Party propaganda unit starts putting on enough pressure, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Hosking is cancelled.
  The cult of Jacinda will demand it and will use whatever tactics they need to to get rid of one of the few independent professionals we have left in NZ.
  She is not a strong leader.
  She needs protection, reassurance and admiration.
  She needs the assistance of women’s magazines and $tuff to regularly put up articles about herself, her boyfriend and her child – see latest evidence on $tuff today.
  I repeat, the confidence she has in her own leadership ability is limited and only maintained by constant affirmation.
  She is a basket case leader.
  
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  September 1, 2021 12:31pm
Michael

Re previous comment. My appointment was at 7.30 a.m on Wednesday August 18th, not last Wednesday.
Tried to edit , but too late.
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September 1, 2021 11:25am
Brian McDonald

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Must be a bugger trying to rally the troops such as anti vaxers or those about to overthrow the Government but nobody turns up:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/08/nz-covid-19-conspiracy-group-in-disarray-after-almost-nobody-turns-up-to-anti-lockdown-protest.html
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September 1, 2021 11:34am
- Fletch
  
  From what I read, the police intercepted them before they got there.
  
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  September 1, 2021 11:52am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Last week Auckland was in lockdown. Did you miss that, or play school TV 1 not tell you?
  This old McDonald ain’t too bright.
  Nice try troll
  
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  September 1, 2021 3:40pm
mandk

Good to see Judith Collins telling the media to do their jobs:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/126246805/covid19-judith-collins-in-heated-clash-during-tvnz-interview-over-travel-to-wellington-during-lockdown

“Don’t attack me for asking the questions that you and the rest of the media should be asking the prime minister.”
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September 1, 2021 11:53am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Dear Ms. Collins,
  
  Please say to the MSM that “eventually National will be voted back into power”. Warn them that they need to start playing fair or when (not if ) National get back into power they will remember how the MSM treated them unfairly and that National will take appropriate actions to punish them for their deceit.
  
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  September 1, 2021 7:26pm
Muttonbird

Having a few issues getting comments through the iron wall today.

Are the moderators ok?

[Mod – This Mod is fine. Perhaps it was something you said…]
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September 1, 2021 11:59am
Muttonbird

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
What a headline:

Coronavirus: Judith Collins accuses media of being ‘wing of the Labour Party’ after fiery interview, cites talking to husband when asked about Pasifika engagement

Judith Collins has lashed out at journalists, claiming they haven’t been asking questions about the vaccine rollout because they “don’t want to”, preferring instead to engage in a “political attack” on the National Party…

…Newshub checked the transcripts of this week’s press conferences, and found numerous questions about the vaccine rollout – there were five at the 1pm briefing on Tuesday (and) there were 13 questions about vaccines at the late-afternoon press conference on Monday.

How not to win at politics.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/coronavirus-judith-collins-accuses-media-of-being-wing-of-the-labour-party-after-fiery-interview-cites-talking-to-husband-when-asked-about-pasifika-engagement.html
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September 1, 2021 12:01pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  How do you survive?
  
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  September 1, 2021 12:37pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  I’m surprised you haven’t accused Dan Satherley, the author of the Newshub piece of being “an embedded Labour Party journalist”, given that any journalist who dares to criticise the Labour Party is described by you as an “embedded National Party journalist”.
  
  Your double standard is showing Muttonbird.
  
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  September 1, 2021 2:18pm
Muttonbird

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Oh. My. God.

There have been concerns that uptake amongst some Pacific communities – particularly youth – has been low. Collins was asked if, as her party’s Pacific spokesperson, if she’d been in contact with the community.

Collins shook her head and rocked back and forth, saying the question was “ridiculous”.

“You know fully well that I’m deeply involved in the Pacific community, and what I’m hearing is that they want to get vaccinated, just like every other New Zealander… My husband is Pasifika, I talk to him every day.”

She’s toast.
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September 1, 2021 12:17pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Ardern’s already covered with ashes.
  Her gulliblements days are getting increasingly shorter.
  
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  September 1, 2021 12:39pm
  - ABS4EVA
    
    Brian Boru was a Kennedy
    
    Every Male Kennedy took the field of Battle
    Clontarf 1014
    
    Be Not Dismayed my Soldiers
    do you know what speech this comes from
    and have you memorised it
    
    Do you know who the Norse Sold Slaves to and with
    
    Do you Know who funded the Normans
    and who funded Cromwell
    
    When you can steal the Pebble from my hand
    
    You will have learned
    
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    September 1, 2021 1:07pm
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Put the cork back in the bottle…
      
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      September 1, 2021 2:18pm
      - ABS4EVA
        
        Stuart my Scottish Tenants are a bit slow
        
        Be not dismayed my soldiers, because my son Donough is avenging our wrongs in Leinster; he will return victorious, and in the glory of his conquests you shall share.
        
        “On your valor rests the hopes of your country today; and what surer grounds can they rest upon? Oppression now attempts to bend you down to servility; will you burst its chains and rise to the independence of Irish freemen? Your cause is one approved by Heaven. You seek not the oppression of others; you fight for your country and sacred altars. It is a cause that claims heavenly protection. In this day’s battle the interposition of that God who can give victory will be singly manifested in your favour.
        
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        September 1, 2021 9:35pm
- kevn
  
  @mutt… Another case of a CDS poster..
  
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  September 1, 2021 12:48pm
- Gravelroad
  
  @Muttonbird:
  Am puzzled about what is concerning to you here?
  Are you claiming that Ms Collins is not “deeply involved in the Pacifica community”?
  How do you know whether she is or not?
  Even I know (never having met Ms Collins) that her husband is Pacifica.
  So what’s the problem with that?
  Are you racially profiling one, or both of them?
  
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  September 1, 2021 1:41pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  Her husband is involved in the Pacific community so her saying she talks to him every day in this context clearly means that he is passing on what he’s hearing first hand, along with what she’s hearing.
  
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  September 1, 2021 2:03pm
  - Muttonbird
    
    Is he involved in the Pacific community? I couldn’t find anything other than chairman of the ‘NZ Samoa Trade and investment commission’, and some outfit which seeks to make money from emerging countries’ water supplies.
    
    I don’t think David Wong-Tung is involved in any way with local Pacific Island communities.
    
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    September 1, 2021 6:57pm
- rangitoto
  
  Did you read that in Pravda or Izvestia?
  
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  September 1, 2021 2:15pm
I remember when

If you have “NO” cases of covid.
You largely close down all business and restrict people by imposing a Level 4 shutdown.
There are “NO” cases of covid.
Have you been SUCCESSFUL.
Is there any way of measuring, or is that the point – we only need the perception of danger and success.
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September 1, 2021 1:07pm
dcrane

Over and over, the same story emerges. Government announces regulations and assumes compliance. Inadequate enforcement. What a joke.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/126222173/covid19-aviation-checks-called-into-question-after-second-student-flies-from-auckland-in-lockdown-breach

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