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September 24, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 24 September 2021

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General Debate

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Andrei

Luckily we don’t live in Aotearoa

Aotearoa will need to institute a ‘proof of vaccine’ system to help curb another outbreak of the Delta variant of Covid-19 and prevent future lockdowns, an epidemiologist says.

Who wants to live in a country where the Government can micro manage your life to the extent that you cannot go to the movies or a football match without their permission?

This Aotearoa place sounds like a living hell to me but perhaps its a “Karen’s” utopia

P.S. There’s a virtual chocolate fish for the first person to guess the name of the “epidemiologist” who said this.
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September 24, 2021 8:00am
- mandk
  
  Sounds like the faux epidemiologist Hendy.
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:21am
  - riffer
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Oh you’re one of those who rates the thoughts of an economist over those of a physicist who has spent years working on data modelling…
    
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    September 24, 2021 9:31am
    - RiP NZ
      
      That you Shaun?
      
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      September 24, 2021 9:42am
    - mandk
      
      Economists also spend years data modelling, but that’s not my point.
      
      Hendry had strayed way outside his area of expertise.
      
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      September 24, 2021 9:46am
      - riffer
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Unlike Rodney Jones. Because we all know economics data is a grand predictor of health outcomes.
        
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        September 24, 2021 10:12am
      - Tom Hunter
        
        According to the Department of Public Health in Otago it is, hence all the claims over the years about the effects of child poverty on health and life expectancy.
        
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        September 24, 2021 10:36am
    - Ed Snack
      
      To quote Box, “all models are wrong, some models are useful”. Hendy’s model was useful only for political purposes, which was of course its primary intention.
      
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      September 24, 2021 10:02am
      - riffer
        
        Rodney Jones response is not also being used for political purposes?
        
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        September 24, 2021 10:13am
      - Jibber NO Jabber
        
        It may be a controversial opinion but, I think modellers should all just stick to plastic aeroplanes…
        
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        September 24, 2021 10:38am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Riffer, difficult to remain neutral isn’t it when you want to pretend that one side isn’t being political but the other is. So you implicitly accept that Hendy’s modelling is driven by political rather than scientific desires ?
        
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        September 24, 2021 11:19am
    - tedbear
      
      Have you still not discovered that modelling (fiddling with computer data) is quite different to scientific and real-time reasoning?
      
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      September 24, 2021 10:26am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      riffer, Jaspinda throws you a computer with a result and says “fix the date to match, or DCM”
      That is the way socialism works.
      OK, Jaspinda did not do that, she is as cunning as a shithouse rat. A sycophant did it for love of a leader …
      
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      September 24, 2021 3:47pm
- Scott
  
  Unfortunately people don’t realise that our Prime Minister is actually a cultural Marxist. She believes that socialism is good, that our society is profoundly racist and sexist and homophobic. We need a revolution to overturn everything and Institute the Socialist People’s Republic of Aotearoa, a vague utopia that will happen sometime in the future. Meanwhile in the present we will have the dictatorship of the woke cultural Marxists who will decide whether we get born (abortion), whether we can go to the movies or fly on aeroplanes (vaccine passports) and when we die (euthanasia). Many of these decisions will be made by our new Maori overlords who will be shortly running the show under the government’s stealth Maorification program of cultural transformation of this country.
  
  The thing about Marxists is they don’t really believe in personal freedom. Everything will be sacrificed for the vague utopia in the future. So vaccine passports is totally within their worldview of acceptable ideas. Communist countries were well-known for their “papers please” control of their citizens. Indeed in Communist China the government will tell you to have a vaccine and you will have no choice.
  
  From a Christian point of view we believe in freedom of conscience. That a person has the right to refuse a vaccine because it would violate their conscience to receive it.
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:22am
  - Sacha
    
    I have just looked this:
    https://sebastianrushworth.com/2021/09/23/a-reflection-om-covid-mania
    A psychologist describes the development of mania.
    It’s long, but do persevere, because it becomes scarily logical – especially where he comments on the use of the leader’s voice.
    But the conclusions are encouraging!
    
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    September 24, 2021 1:14pm
    - Sacha
      
      A lot of little lights started lighting up – he could have been taking about NZ today.
      
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      September 24, 2021 1:18pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  The Government won’t do this. Some businesses may require vaccine proof to enter but that is their choice.
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:39am
  - dcrane
    
    And what if “some businesses” becomes “most businesses”, and what if the government encourages this approach? Outsourced bio-fascism is still a problem.
    
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    September 24, 2021 8:47am
    - Rich Prick
      
      It has already started in our place with a righteous vaccinated one demanding that everyone else be vaccinated or she won’t return. I’m quite happy to see this play out.
      
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      September 24, 2021 10:04am
      - Ehlana
        
        I’d imagine it plays out with her leaving to “pursue other opportunities.”
        
        If she is vaccinated, double masked (as I assume she would be) and keeps her distance from the rest of you (in which endeavour I’m sure you’ll all assist), then she will be highly unlikely to catch anything from anyone. And if by some chance she does, it should be a mild dose.
        
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        September 24, 2021 10:29am
      - Rich Prick
        
        Spot on Ehlana. It is interesting just how politicised a private medical decision has become. I would have thought it was no one’s business other than the individual concerned. But thanks to the media, Government advertising, the “team of 5 million” and the emboldened righteous ones, it seems it’s everyone’s business. “Show me your papers” will be next.
        
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        September 24, 2021 10:40am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Even if the Government does not encourage it, what do you expect to happen? AFAIK any business can set conditions of entry so long as they do not breach the Bill of Rights (e.g. “No Maori people allowed in my cafe”). Many restaurants, bars etc will require vaccination as a condition of entry because it is in their interest to do so. Or maybe some will market themselves to unvaccinated people. The market will sort it out. Don’t worry about it.
      
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      September 24, 2021 11:49am
      - Clownworld
        
        Benedict I like your optomistic pragmatic approach. If the free market and business however decided in the future that only unvaccinated people can engage in the economy or enter their premises rather than vaccinated, would you accept that as fair and reasonable?
        
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        September 24, 2021 12:27pm
      - Man Among the Ruins
        
        Incorrect. The Bill of Rights Act 1990 governs the actions of the state and/or organisations acting under the auspices of the state. However, the Human Rights Act 1993 governs private citizens and businesses, for instance.
        
        Of relevance, included in s 21 prohibited grounds of discrimination are:
        
        s 21(1)(h) Disability (including the presence in the body of organisms capable of causing illness)
        
        s 21(1)(j) Political opinion, which includes the lack of a particular political opinion or any political opinion
        
        s21(2)
        
        Each of the grounds specified in subsection (1) is a prohibited ground of discrimination, for the purposes of this Act, if—
        (a)
        it pertains to a person or to a relative or associate of a person; and
        (b)
        it either—
        (i)
        currently exists or has in the past existed; or
        (ii)
        is suspected or assumed or believed to exist or to have existed by the person alleged to have discriminated.
        
        Prima facie, they would need to amend our human rights to allow social credit digital IDs, under the guise of vaccination status.
        
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        September 24, 2021 2:38pm
      - guardianista
        
        I can only presume you are down voted for the comment “don’t worry about it”. Already the airline industry is looking like it will go this way and there is a very good chance hospitality will go the same way.
        
        But yes we should worry about this unscientific and immoral development of taking the new lepers out of society.
        
        If restaurants really cared about their clients with regard to COVID they would all move into buildings with very high head spaces and state of the art ventilation systems.
        
        They won’t, they will just go along with the new orthodoxy because it will make them look good and not cost them anything.
        
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        September 24, 2021 3:01pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Just to illustrate my point, this is a list of restaurants in Washington DC that have adopted a “no vaccine no entry” policy. Dozens of them.
      
      https://www.washingtonian.com/2021/07/30/dc-area-restaurants-and-bars-require-proof-of-covid-19-vaccination/
      
      I had a quick look at Toronto and Ottawa in Canada – same deal.
      
      It would be most surprising if this did not happen in New Zealand.
      
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      September 24, 2021 12:20pm
      - Clownworld
        
        Yes this is a natural response they did this for Aids, Hep B, measles, chickenpox, STDs and all other private medical choices including abortion. I remember there was always discrimination against all these people in the past. So perhaps we should just shut up.and accept this enlightened kind way to treat people.
        
        What could possibly go wrong?
        
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        September 24, 2021 12:32pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        And it sounds like BLM are going to start targeting those restaurants, because the majority of non-Vaxxed people in NY, far from being the deplorable Trumpers that the media likes to pretend they are, are in fact younger Black folk. So this is direct racial discrimination according to BLM.
        
        Oh the cognitive dissonance !
        
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        September 24, 2021 10:42pm
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Let me guess the pink haired one the can travel 5 km for a paddle in the sea with her friend, no mask needed.
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:42am
  - riffer
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    She didn’t have a paddle in the sea. Her friend did. Genesis 4:8-9 and all that…
    
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    September 24, 2021 9:32am
    - Blackbob
      
      You obviously haven’t watched the video clip, the red haired one did indeed paddle in the sea, she didn’t swim but definitely waddled about in the tide.
      
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      September 24, 2021 10:02am
      - kowtow
        
        She claimed to use the exemption of “excerise” to excuse her jaunt .
        
        While she may have cycled to the beach ( where’s the proof) she then sat down on the beach for a chat with her pal . Her pal did go for a swim ( even though Blofeld amazingly and unbelievably said that wasn’t swimming , and if it wasn’t swimming what the hell was it ) but Wiles can clearly be seen wading in the gentle surf while pal swam.
        
        Sitting on the beach and wading in the surf while someone swims , is not “exercise” .
        
        They were both on a jolly to the beach and have sought cover under the exemption of “exercise”
        
        The fact that the Media and the state have turned a wilful blind eye to ignore and also excuse those facts while actively persuing and highlighting low hanging fruit is an affront to justice and fairness and is an indication that we have a protected Elite Class here in New Zealand .
        
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        September 24, 2021 11:24am
      - kloyd0306
        
        Am thinking the Batman has changed his name to riffer.
        Same pattern of defense of the leftist.
        Same pattern of attacking the right.
        Same pattern of downticks.
        Same demented thinking.
        
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        September 24, 2021 4:49pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Just as an aside, there seems to be a relentless trend in the mainstream media and in Government to refer to Aotearoa as the name of New Zealand. The plan seems to be to just keep using it until the opponents give in.
  
  Also I have noticed that in dealing with a couple of public sector clients that technical papers that refer to New Zealand cities and place names are using the Maori name in conjunction with the English name, and in some cases, ONLY the Maori name is used.
  
  I just don’t see the need for it. I can’t see how highly technical papers can be translated into the Maori language. For example, nuclear scientists in China, Japan, Germany and the USA could all converse about a maintenance manual for a nuclear reactor in their native languages. And if they have a common language – usually English – the can converse with each other.
  
  I am happy to be corrected but I do not believe that the Maori language could be used for such analysis. So why is the New Zealand Government peppering the papers on geospatial data they send me with Maori place names?
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:57am
  - riffer
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Benedict. You live in a country where Maori is an official language. It is now expected that Maori and English can be used interchangeably. Canada does this quite easily. What’s your problem with the Maori language?
    
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    September 24, 2021 9:34am
    - Kiwi Dave
      
      French is also an international language spoken by millions; Maori isn’t.
      
      When asked whose side God is on, Napoleon replied, ‘God is on the side of the big battalions.” The same is true of language.
      
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      September 24, 2021 9:42am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        AFAIK, Napoleon always spoke in Italian, Corsu or French, although he did try to learn English once it was too late to make any English friends. But he probably never said that quote, unless he was paraphrasing Voltaire’s ‘God is on the side not of the heavy battalions but of the best shots.’
        
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        September 24, 2021 2:15pm
    - Ehlana
      
      riffer, who expects the two to be used interchangeably? That can surely only be done by those of the 4% of New Zealanders who speak Maori who are also fluent in English.
      
      I work with many people who are fluent in more than one language and my observation is that they do not use the languages interchangeably. Rather, they carry out entire conversations in one language.
      
      Likewise, I use websites for companies based overseas, who offer their sites in multiple languages. And again, the site is presented entirely in whichever language the user has chosen, it is not a mix of two.
      
      This dropping words your listeners are unlikely to know into an English sentence, especially when there are a multitude of English words available to serve the purpose, seems to be a peculiarly New Zealand phenomena. I cannot see that it improves communication at all.
      
      Actually, I think it is disrespectful to both languages. If you want to speak Maori, learn it and speak it well. Likewise, speak good English (and sign well, if you have learned our other official language).
      
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      September 24, 2021 10:38am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Correct Ehlana. Mixing Maori words with English sentences is actually bastardising both languages – we are in danger of creating a ‘Pidgin English Kiwi’ language that no-one will understand, will be unintelligible outside NZ, and we will become an international laughing stock – as we are approaching now under this apologetic sham of a government.
        
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        September 24, 2021 12:03pm
      - Bluegrass
        
        “…they do not use the languages interchangeably.”
        
        It depends. In addition to English I speak 3 languages fluently and it is common to chop and change between languages when speaking with similar folk who are multilingual. Socially. You are often unaware of it. Because some words in some languages describe a situation better, so you use that word. And also when talking to yourself [don’t ask].
        
        In international business (in my area of oil and gas) with different nationalities around the table the lingua franca is usually English. With time-outs if necessary for discussions in other languages before returning to English.
        
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        September 24, 2021 12:22pm
    - Jack5
      
      Riffer, English and Maori are the country’s two written languages.
      
      That means you can use either, it doesn’t mean you mash them into a Pidgin language, as do State TV, State radio and, now, the subsidised print media.
      
      In English, use English words: in Maori use Maori words.
      
      What’s your problem with that, Riffer?
      
      In Canada, which you cite, apart from indigenous tongues and small communities that use languages as varied as Ukrainian and Low German, people speak English or French, not a pidgin English or a pidgin French.
      
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      September 24, 2021 11:42am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        English has a great tradition of adopting useflu words from a wide variety of languages. This reflects both the origin of English in Anglo-Saxon times and the effect of the Norse and Norman invasions, not to mention the expansion of English across the quarter of the globe once coloured pink.
        It is rather unsurprising, therefore, that New Zealand English has incorporated many Māori words and phrases. Languages change and evolve. Attempts to keep them static by decree (like the Académie Française’s rejection of Anglicisms) are doomed to failure.
        
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        September 24, 2021 2:24pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Wow you are a laugh a minute.
      
      I have done business in Canada. Canadian government departments publish technical papers in English and in French. ie two versions on the paper. One for English speakers and one for French speakers.
      
      Can you see the bloody difference between that, and the situation I just described?
      
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      September 24, 2021 11:52am
      - david
        
        Exactly right BY. At the same time consider the use of Cook Islands Maori language in Rarotonga.
        They have adopted the delightful practice of using an appropriate word or phrase when their traditional language does not have one. They do not have a Commission sitting in Averua making up new words for Cook Islands Maori, so will happily use “atomic submarine”, “physics”, “car park”, “referee” when required.
        Making up a language on the hoof doesn’t really cut it I’m afraid. Why should I have to learn the new words for “diesel” and “unleaded 91” when there is a perfectly adequate word readily available.
        
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        September 24, 2021 4:52pm
    - Kiwi Dave
      
      Interested in your claim that ‘Canada does this quite easily’, I consulted Wiki and discovered that while the federal government offers bilingual services, things are a little bit different at the provincial government level.
      
      And when it comes to popular usage…
      
      Between 2006 and 2011, the number of persons who reported being able to conduct a conversation in both of Canada’s official languages increased by nearly 350,000 to 5.8 million. The bilingualism rate of the Canadian population edged up from 17.4% in 2006 to 17.5% in 2011. This growth of English-French bilingualism in Canada was mainly due to the increased number of Quebecers who reported being able to conduct a conversation in English and French.
      
      So, on the basis of this evidence:
      
      1) in practice, languages are not interchangeable for most people in Canada;
      2) expectations of extensive bilingualism in NZ are unrealistic.
      
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      September 24, 2021 11:57am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        The Cooks will be like Samoa where the local population has used their Polynesian variant for tens of centuries.
        I was in Samoa when the development was a live issue. I have heard their parliamentarians interpolate English phases in Samoan oratory. They knew their technical future would require English so schooling and use became bi-lingual. They also had law drafting to contend with so the classical way of adding meaning was adopted.
        
        The NPF, National Provident Fund, became: Ole fa’aputuga tupe mole lumana’i manuia ole tagata o Samoa i Sisifo. That is, almost, in English: The fund in tax taken money for the future welfare of the people of Western Samoa. (A fair description.)
        
        Polynesian languages can take development but they can also be clumsy. Maori has a major problem in that is largely fossilised. It can describe kumara planting and social interchange but little beyond that. Borrowing of transliterated English would likely wreck both languages. A further problem lies in its structure and the much extended range of pronouns which came out of an earlier society.
        
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        September 24, 2021 5:50pm
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      Sure, so when speaking Maori – use Maori.
      When speaking English, use English.
      If there isn’t a need to borrow a word from elsewhere, then avoid Manglish.
      
      And while there is a 3rd official language, sign language, it is not to say they all must have equal degrees of use between English, Maori and Sign. Quite evidently not.
      
      And then there is a the fact that people whose 2nd language is English, and certainly many who don’t speak Maori or know many words, that rebranding services in Maori (or dropping English for a Maori word) is the polar opposite of a useful exercise.
      
      Think about it, champ.
      THINKZ instead of FEELZ.
      
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      September 24, 2021 12:49pm
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      My problem with the Maori language riffer, is that Maori can’t be arsed saving their language (otherwise more than 2% of them would be absolutely fluent in it), so why the hell should the rest of NZ’rs be forced to save it for them? It’s an utterly useless language and a good number of words that were and are common in English didn’t exist in Maori.
      
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      September 24, 2021 2:12pm
    - I remember when
      
      Riffer: Canada:
      English Speaking population 75.4%
      French Speaking population 22.8% (and shrinking)
      English only 68.3%: French only 11.9%
      English and French 17.9%
      Neither English or French 1.9%
      
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      September 24, 2021 2:46pm
    - kloyd0306
      
      It IS Batman!
      
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      September 24, 2021 4:51pm
  - Phronesis
    
    I suggest you learn sign language. Then when it all gets too much for you, you can start gesticulating at them and if they have a problem with it point out that it’s an official language and you demand to be heard (well seen I guess).
    
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    September 24, 2021 9:42am
  - Paulus
    
    Votes remember is all that maters.
    Middle New Zealand will give them to her again – well the women will.
    
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    September 24, 2021 1:01pm
  - Barbara
    
    “In the name of saving from extinction the Maori language (te reo Maori or simply te reo), New Zealand authorities have embarked on a unique project, breathtaking in its scope and ambition: to demote, hybridise or replace NZ English, the first language of the vast majority of the country, as best they can.” https://stovouno.org/2021/07/15/te-reoglish-the-negation-of-new-zealand-english/
    
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    September 24, 2021 1:34pm
    - Batman
      
      Absolutely absurd racist horseshit.
      
      Just look at Canada or any other country with more than one language.
      
      That piece is just a long way of saying “I don’t like Maori things and don’t want to see it in my daily life.”
      
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      September 24, 2021 1:37pm
      - Frank the tank
        
        Batty – you fairly called me out yesterday – so I’ll return the favor.
        
        The poster has a right to post this without you manipulating it to suit your own narrative. The poster has a legitimate concern that I and a lot of New Zealanders share. Not the words I’d use but I agree with the sentiment.
        
        To turn this into “you’re all racists” claptrap is something I’d expect from the useful idiot rent-a-quote crowd that infect our MSM. Despite what many think here you are better than this and I expect a more reasoned, intelligent argument from you.
        
        Don’t stoop to a Glenn McConnell/Matthew Tukaki/Willy Jackson hissy fit child like argument.
        
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        September 24, 2021 2:36pm
  - John Pakes
    
    Benedict, you mention ” the plan seems to be to just keep using it until the opponents give in”
    There is no plan. A plan does not exist.
    It is something that is just happening naturally and all by itself. The fact that it is becoming more apparent in recent times is because things that happen naturally do accelerate as it’s adoption becomes more acceptable.
    The problem of translating scientific documents will be eventually solved by those who need them and use them, the scientists. If Maori does not fit, it will not be used.
    
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    September 24, 2021 2:31pm
    - Homas
      
      Yes John, the scientists. Not the government ideologues with their hands on the purse strings, nor the institutional diversity and inclusion troughers. They won’t get any say at all, will they John?
      
      Honestly, with your incessant gaslighting you should be a lighthouse keeper.
      
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      September 24, 2021 3:37pm
    - kloyd0306
      
      Pure garbage.
      This “maorification” has been accelerated at lightning speed by a government being held to ransom by the 16 member Maori caucus.
      
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      September 24, 2021 4:54pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      This is force feeding us by by ignorant Pakeha. What kickback do they expect?
      
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      September 24, 2021 5:15pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      You know that there’s no plan, that a plan doesn’t exist, do you?
      
      Gee it must be amazing being you John, you remind me of the old saying “Often wrong, but never in doubt.”
      
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      September 24, 2021 6:41pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    It’s of dubious legality too.
    Govt agencies have a duty to communicate.
    
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    September 24, 2021 5:13pm
- gorse
  
  It doesn’t need any such thing – “proof of vaccine”. When you get vaccinated you get a card with vaccination dates recorded on it. I was told that it was good locally and was given a slip of paper with instructions on how to go about getting a pass from the MOH if travelling overseas. “Passports” are already in place. These “experts” need to catch up with the play
  
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  September 24, 2021 9:02am
- Homas
  
  Speaking of this Ay-oh-tay-ah-rower business…
  
  I wonder if it has ever occurred to Cinders that her endless campaign of kindness is funded largely by way of a certain revenue authority’s primary taxing right over the worldwide income of “residents”- the ambit of such term being relevantly delineated with respect to a constitutional entity called “New Zealand”.
  
  Perhaps we should all declare ourselves to spend the relevant number of days per year in, or to have a permanent place of abode in, or to have our companies incorporated in or controlled from, or the settlors of our trusts resident in, this “Aotearoa” place – and see if the concomitant drying-up of the NZ tax base gets her attention.
  
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  September 24, 2021 9:07am
- Albert_Ross
  
  I wonder how many countries there are around the world where there is not a single epidemiologist who has said the same thing?
  
  No, let’s reserve judgement until we see whether the Government actually does it. No Government would survive a week if it actually did all the things that thei newspapers report this or that expert in this or that subject as advising
  
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  September 24, 2021 10:19am
- Observer of Life
  
  Andrei: Pinky aka S Wiles
  
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  September 24, 2021 4:25pm
Vory v zakone

Here’s the latest US VAERS data for the vaxx:

701,559 Adverse Events
60,741 Hospitalizations
80,393 Urgent Care
6,637 Heart Attacks
5,765 Myocarditis
1,862 Miscarriages
19,210 Disabled
14,925 Deaths

100% Safe and Effective ?

Meanwhile Dr. Jessica Rose at the FDA Open Public Hearing:
Dr Rose states based on the VAERS data…
“There’s an over 1000% increase in the total number of adverse events just for 2021 and we are not done with 2021 … In my opinion [the risks] outweigh any potential benefits…with these products, especially in children.”

She questions if the shots are driving the variants

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFph7-6t34M&t=14984s
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September 24, 2021 8:00am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  100% safe and effective my left tit
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:36am
- dannz
  
  You realise 387,000,000 doses have been given in USA?
  You realise the events in VAERS are simply events that happened after vaccination regardless of whether it was related to the vaccine?
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:47am
  - Ed Snack
    
    And do you realise that VAERS is a voluntary system, and that actual numbers are considerably higher, with estimates of between 10 – 50 x more actual events than reported.
    
    And the association between Vaccination and a VAE can of course be tenuous, just like the association between Covid status and death/sickness. For comparative purposes, treat them similarly is about as good as we can unless the numbers on both sides are reanalysed properly.
    
    Though to be counted as a VAE, there does typically need to be some relationship and not just in time. So if someone fell and broke their hip after vaccination it is very unlikely to be counted as a VAE except in cases where it is pretty clear that the vaccination induced the fall directly – which is pretty unlikely but I guess possible.
    
    As for Measles, try this link.
    
    https://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/initiative/tools/MMR_vaccine_rates_information_sheet.pdf
    
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    September 24, 2021 10:11am
- Benedict Yu
  
  How do these adverse event reports differ from adverse events following (say) the measles vaccine?
  
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  September 24, 2021 9:00am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Benedict, I believe the same reporting system is used, so in the USA the VAERS system would record apparent VAE’s from the measles vaccine(s).
    
    Thus any over/under reporting and confused cause and effect links would be more or less the same for measles vaccines.
    
    And we do know that there is some confusion and apparent faulty cause/correlation issues around measles, so one would have to believe that there is the same around Covid reporting.
    
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    September 24, 2021 11:16am
  - miltonF
    
    You can check out the adverse side effects and deaths for covid vaccines and all other vaccines on the vaers database. It is interesting to compare the safety of this vaccine vs previous vaccines such as measles.
    
    As far as I can tell, the number of deaths contributed to the covid vaccine is around 75% of all vaccine related deaths, combined.
    
    Something is definitely wrong here.
    
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    September 24, 2021 1:57pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    Medsafe is showing as of Sept 4, 54 deaths and 602 Serious Adverse events .
    
    MMR over a 4 year period contained 25 serious events and zero deaths.
    
    But a fairer comparison is to compare all our major vaccines (not flu) which is 1.9 million doses and double it to compare with the 3.8 million cominarty given.
    
    Total deaths of other vaxes over 4 years = 5 deaths (5×2) = 10 vs 50 for cominarty.
    Total serious events other vaxes (137×2)= 274 vs 602 cominarty.
    
    The deaths from “other vaxes” were anaphylactic allergic reactions. There is no other vax deaths from heart attack or myocarditis. The serious events from the “other vaxes included milder reasons for hospitalisation. Eg gastro, fainting etc. The serious events in cominarty are broken down include 70 Myocarditis. 36 Stroke. 16 Heart attacks. 52 Bells Palsy. etc. The clotting issues seem unique to cominarty and are not really linked to other vaccines. Not a doctor just my reading of the charts.
    
    Other vax info link:
    https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/topic_sheets/adverse-event-summary.pdf
    
    Cominarty safety report:
    https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/safety-report-27.asp
    
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    September 24, 2021 3:22pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  These are just adverse events that happen after vaccination. It is not about cause. Are you really suggesting that the vaccine has CAUSED 1,862 miscarriages? I just looked it up – there are about 2,500 miscarriages in the USA every DAY.
  
  Can you see the problem here?
  
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  September 24, 2021 9:08am
  - Inandout
    
    BY, you touch on the subject of stats. So we may well ask how many people die solely from covid?
    
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    September 24, 2021 9:25am
    - septic skeptic
      
      None. If the death certificate is correctly filled out the primary cause of death will be respiratory failure, pulmonary embolism or whatever actually killed you. It was of course pure coincidence that you happened to have covid at the time. Just like “died of a ruptured pulmonary artery” had nothing to do with the car accident he was in a hour earlier.
      You don’t die “of” covid. Covid causes the things that kill you.
      
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      September 24, 2021 10:26am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Not addressing my point and saying “look over there” is not that helpful.
      
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      September 24, 2021 11:55am
  - miltonF
    
    I can see a definite problem BY. If we are basing these assumptions on the Vaers database, then why did we not see a prevalence of reported side effects for other vaccines we have used in the past?
    
    If these miscarriages were coincidental, as you suggest, then we should see no difference in the ratio of reported miscarriages between say, the measles vaccine and the covid vaccine.
    
    However the data shows that many miscarriages have been reported after taking the covid vaccine, but nearly zero miscarriages were reported after taking the measles vaccine.
    
    Looking forward to your explanation of this.
    
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    September 24, 2021 2:04pm
- Happy1
  
  You need to consider how many “adverse events “ orally administering 10cc of H2O would generate.
  
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  September 24, 2021 9:16am
- riffer
  
  AEFI’s are self-reported. While I don’t deny that for some people adverse affects are really quite awful, the lack of any scientific rigour leaves a credibility gap.
  
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  September 24, 2021 9:36am
  - Ed Snack
    
    And why is it still just self reported. Shouldn’t it have been a priority with a new and only partially tested vaccine to make particular efforts to document issues ?
    
    It is to me a horrendous failing that nobody in the world seems to be tracking VAE’s from the various Covid vaccines on a systematic basis. Why would this data NOT be valued, is it part of the deal with the vaccine companies – as conspiracy minded as that sounds – but why NOT ?
    
    Just as a comparison, there was an issue around 10-12 years ago with a flu vaccine that had far fewer reported VAE’s than these Covid vaccines and that was withdrawn fairly quickly once the scale was known. The early Polio vaccines when they were new and relatively untested also had major problems, and some were withdrawn.
    
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    September 24, 2021 10:17am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Yep the Flu vaccine administered in Europe in 2009 had some, as yet, unexplained effect that caused narcolepsy in young children.
      
      https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22470453/
      
      https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/history/narcolepsy-flu.html
      
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      September 24, 2021 11:03am
Warren

A statement from Jacinda Ardern our Prime Minister that should worry everyone.
” I se a cause for hope ” Ardern said, I see pathway for us to use the vaccinations to our advantage.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/modelling-showing-thousands-dead-if-covid-19-vaccination-rates-stagnate-spooks-experts.html
This is dictator ship in the making from a Prime Minister that wants power.
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September 24, 2021 8:00am
- nathie
  
  That article was written by the Tova and her tv report last night on the matter was accepting, uncritical (didn’t mention Rodney Jones’s criticisms, despite being featured on afternoon radio news), and was propagandising on behalf the podium of “truth”.
  
  Tova just earned her media company more “credits” with our Dear PM …. which she’ll “double” when she does her next hit-piece on National!
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:25am
  - Inandout
    
    nathie, regarding Tova. Hosking played many clips from Jacinda’s podium of truth speeches and 90% of the time when she asks for questions, Tova is the first ‘go to’. A very close relationship there.
    
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    September 24, 2021 9:28am
    - Bobba Fret
      
      Tova and Jessica (of TV One…I think her partner is part of the PM’s security team).
      Tova and Jessica could be bridesmaids at the wedding if they keep this up.
      
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      September 24, 2021 10:49am
      - Tomtoddy
        
        Jessica’s guy is on her security detail and Tova was a flatmate. NZ maybe a small country but it aint that small.
        
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        September 24, 2021 4:09pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Stop her now before she sells out NZ.
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:33am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Too late I think. The seed has been planted. Socialists NEVER relinquish control without a fight. Look at History being repeated
    
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    September 24, 2021 8:39am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Can we afford not to push the eject seat button?
      
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      September 24, 2021 1:32pm
  - pdm
    
    `KevO’Brien
    Stop her now before she sells out NZ.’
    
    Too late!!!
    
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    September 24, 2021 8:39am
Tomtoddy

Know that iconic landscape that stretches from Wairarapa to East Cape? Rolling pastures, dotted with sheep and cattle? Gone burger. No more. If you want to retain a memory of it, you need to be quick and drive there soon.

In a very short time those rolling hills will be covered in pine trees. There are massive, deep-pocketed funds, corporates, and individuals lined up buying and planting. Real estate agents have been sewn up. Their instructions are clear – buy, pay what is necessary to get a signature. The only small limit – seedling trees to plant. Not just the odd property but as many as come on the market and other sheep and beef farmers are waking up to prices they could only ever dream about. Don’t blame them. It’s their one big chance of a lifetime.

Blame Shaw and the ETS. Blame Labour. Blame the Greens and the idiots here and around the world who think ruminant methane at 0.000000252% of the atmosphere, dominated by water vapour, used up by farms to grow grass, is somehow causing a problem. Its not science. Its politics and ideology. They are clubbing our economy to death.

Kiss goodbye to the Dannevirkes, the Wairoas, the Cartertons. These pine trees are not going to be cut down. Planted and left. No infrastructure, no schools, no shops, no towns. A dismal, forlorn landscape, soils ruined, economy busted.

The Carbon price is over $60 a tonne now. Shaw is writing international pension funds a blank cheque, underwritten by the state. The futures price is $73 a tonne and next round I wager it will be pushing $100. At that number the MIQ’s will be chokka full of fund managers with bulging pockets. Don’t blame the cockies. Its their Golden Kiwi moment. Shaw and his bloated team are packing their bags to go tell the world what an outstanding leader he is. He will be feted. Meanwhile rural NZ withers and dies.

Exaggerating? Don’t believe me? I challenge you to grab a phone and call any rural land agent on the eastern coast of the NI. They will confirm it in a flash. They are offering better than dairy farm prices for hard hill country.

Time to grab the dogs, crank up the ute and join Groundswell. Somebody has to try and stop the ruination of this once beautiful country.
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September 24, 2021 8:01am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Ideally, those hill pastures would be returned to trees more like the original forest cover burned in the nineteenth century. But no one is going to pay much, now, for land that might be available for selective logging in 3oo years.
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:04am
  - kowtow
    
    ”burned in the nineteenth century”
    
    Those evil white colonists .
    
    The Moa hunters were also tree burners .
    
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    September 24, 2021 8:21am
    - Jibber NO Jabber
      
      Yeah nah, that version of history has been expunged.
      
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      September 24, 2021 8:49am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Yes, there was still some standing tall forest around the Wairarapa and Southern Hawkes Bay in the 19th Century, but I suggest you read Guthrie Smith’s “Tutira” and you might realise how much of the East Coast of NZ was devoid of its tall native forest when Europeans set foot here.
      
      or for a shorter read, try:
      “The impact of human settlement on vegetation
      and soil stability in Hawke’s Bay, New Zealand”
      https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/0028825X.1997.10410672
      
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      September 24, 2021 9:09am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Thank you for those suggestions. I have only read Grey’s Historical Geography of New Zealand, Flannery’s Future Eaters, Arnold’s New Zealand’s Burning, and articles in the 1966 Encyclopedia and on Te Ara.
        
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        September 25, 2021 12:34pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The first Polynesian settlers, sometimes called the moa hunters, burned off about a quarter of the islands’ forest cover.
      
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      September 25, 2021 12:31pm
  - Blackbob
    
    Ideally those hill pastures should be growing cattle and sheep not pine trees.
    
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    September 24, 2021 8:24am
    - Nickc2
      
      There’s scope and space for both (agriculture and forestry), but not in Hawkes Bay (HB).
      We NZers in HB can’t afford to sit around and wait for forests to mature sufficiently to fell and sell like foreign corporations can, assuming there is still a market for timber and other forestry products by the time new forest plantings mature sufficiently for harvest?
      IMO, we should stick to cropping, fruit, meat and milk in HB.
      
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      September 24, 2021 9:28am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    We need grass not carbon credits.
    
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    September 24, 2021 8:36am
  - Clyde
    
    You need to get some facts mikeenmildagain. The first Polynesians into NZ burned everything they saw. Do some actual research for a change and you will find that over 70% of NZ was burned by these ecologically aware people. Then come back and correct yourself.
    
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    September 24, 2021 9:05am
  - kevn
    
    @mma… 300 year old fast growing pines? Leave them to rot. Add another hundred years.
    
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    September 24, 2021 9:06am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      The oldest pine trees I’m acquainted with in New Zealand were those planted on Wellington’s Town Belt from 1878-1890s.
      
      Those that hadn’t succumbed in the century or so that they were on the Town belt were in a fairly decrepit state by the late 1980s when I undertook a survey of the Town Belt.
      
      The best ones of the 19th century survivors were in a damp gully on Mt Tinakori but they were finally trashed in the 2004 storm.
      
      I doubt that many pines (Pinus) will endure for much over 100-120 years in NZ hill country.
      
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      September 24, 2021 10:02am
      - Ed Snack
        
        An internet search suggests that the oldest Radiata in NZ is 160-162 years old, so planted around 1859-61, in Geraldine. Same age as a Douglas Fir, also in Geraldine. Oldest noted “imported” tree is a Moreton Bay Fig at 171 years old in Monte Cecilia Park in Auckland.
        
        Would have thought myself that some Scots Pines would have been at least that old, and that some trees were likely planted in Auckland pretty soon after serious settlement started in 1840.
        
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        September 24, 2021 11:05pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Trouble is Mikey, that over the medium to long term, pasture absorbs more CO2 than forestry. So we’re committing hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars in a policy that will, over time, make matters worse – that is if CO2 levels really matter.
    
    One of the definitions of insanity surely covers this, although personal and political corruption is possibly a better explanation.
    
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    September 24, 2021 10:21am
- tf78
  
  Tomtoddy – got a box of beehives?
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:19am
- PhilBest
  
  I upticked you, but plenty of parts of the world are famous for their scenery which is covered in pine trees. It is kinda gloomy, though, the local mythology is all about trolls and nibelungs and stuff like that.
  
  Back before whitey arrived, of course it was almost all native bush wasn’t it? Whoever, I am a staunch believer in “go forth and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it” so pasture is a beautiful sight.
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:20am
  - RiP NZ
    
    Pine forests are soulless death zones. There’s no bird song, the blankets of thick needles supress any vegetation growth on the floor, zero bio diversity and generally very unpleasant places to be in.
    
    Pretty good analogy for the country in its current direction now that I think of it.
    
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    September 24, 2021 9:40am
  - Blackbob
    
    Back before humans arrived here you mean, when the first humans arrived in these isles the bush covered 97%, when the first Europeans arrived that was already down to about 60%
    
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    September 24, 2021 10:07am
    - PhilBest
      
      Interesting thanks Blackbob. It was much worse in Australia where burn-offs by primitive hunter-gatherers to drive prey into the open, had the result of “desertification” because of the underlying climate conditions. At least in NZ because of the climate, green growth will inevitably return.
      
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      September 24, 2021 12:58pm
      - Blackbob
        
        That’s how The Moa was driven into extinction, burn the bush and wait down wind was a common hunting tactic.
        
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        September 24, 2021 2:03pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Shane Jones’ Billion Trees policy (remember him, and that?) was based around a loophole in the Overseas Investment Act. When the incoming Labour/NZF government was elected in 2017, land sales to foreigners were banned, with the exception of land for the planting of trees.What you describe is the upshot Tomtoddy.
  
  If all the land being planted in pine was marginal hill country, it wouldn’t be such an issue. But no, whole farms, productive pastoral farms, have been planted in pine, much of which has not been planted with the intent of being harvested, but is planted solely to game the carbon tax regime, and generate carbon credits. It’s a lucrative business. But no one stopped to think of what it would do to rural communities, and we are now seeing the outcome.
  
  Right tree, right place, right reason. Planting productive farms in pine fails all of the above.
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:21am
  - G152
    
    Watch as the tax take falls off.
    Cut back of farm produce will smarten the governments up wonderfully
    
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    September 24, 2021 8:26am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      It’s already happening. Trees, once planted, only need sporadic care, so there are far fewer farm worker jobs in those areas. That has led to rural schools becoming unsustainable, and rural businesses closing down because they’ve lost their customers. It has become a significant economic and social issue, and even a health issue due to the volume of pollen being generated.
      
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      September 24, 2021 8:52am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    We need more tree planting. But is has to be the right tree in the right place. Medium-term gains from radiata are not helpful, ecologically or economically. Unfortunately, no
    NZ government has ever followed such simple advice.
    
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    September 24, 2021 8:33am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      I couldn’t agree more mikenmild. Pine forests that never get harvested are going to become a blight on the landscape.
      
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      September 24, 2021 8:55am
      - birdhaven
        
        Also a fire hazard.
        
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        September 24, 2021 9:42am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      The original NZ Forest Service had started trials of growing Native trees, but when the Service was wiped out by the Lange Government in 1987 , decades of research on Native forestry came to a halt.
      
      I somehow don’t think the resurrected NZ Forest Service will be making much headway for decades.
      https://www.mpi.govt.nz/forestry/about-te-uru-rakau/our-story-structure-people/
      
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      September 24, 2021 9:20am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Disagree for reasons above, if you want CO2 absorption, pasture is the way to go as grass keeps growing. Trees absorb reasonable amounts early in their life cycle but become near net emitters in maturity. And when they decay and die they generate CH4.
      
      Much of this is driven by the faulty and deliberately skewed and damaging political accounting system setup during the Kyoto negotiations. As with companies, the “results” you report depend critically on the accounting rules used. Those results should not be confused with reality though they typically are.
      
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      September 24, 2021 10:26am
    - Barbara
      
      “We need more tree planting.” Presumably to fulfill the DOC goal of “restoring” NZ to pre-human times …
      
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      September 24, 2021 1:41pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Give them 10 years, then hit them with a flame-thrower. 😉
    
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    September 24, 2021 12:19pm
- kevn
  
  @TomT… Rooting NZ, all of them, in many ways.
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:22am
- kowtow
  
  Same in the South Island.
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:24am
- I remember when
  
  I remember when the ’90 Mile Bush’ was something you only read about in books.
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:42am
- cmm
  
  What we need is to fix this bullshit accounting.
  
  Agriculture is carbon harvesting.
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:53am
- Yvette
  
  Tomtoody, this is not without precedent we should learn from –
  
  The wrong kind of trees: Ireland’s afforestation meets resistance
  Ireland is ramping up its response to the climate crisis by planting forests – lots of forests. East, west, north, south, the plan is to plant forests, the more the better.
  With enough trees, goes the hope, Ireland can compensate for many of the cows, vehicles and fossil-burning power plants that make it one of Europe’s worst climate offenders.
  
  … But some in Ireland have a problem with the great green vision. They say Ireland is planting the wrong sort of forests – dark, dank abominations that kill wildlife, block sunlight and isolate communities.
  “It’s like a wall around you, dead, darkness. It’s suffocating. We’re losing the landscape,” said Edwina Guckian, a member of Save Leitrim, a group that is resisting plantations.
  
  … “We’re not anti-trees, we’re anti-this,” said Willie Stewart, tramping through a gloomy pine-filled grove near his home in the townland of Drumnadober. “It’s industrial monoculture – a green barrier all around us. It’s horrible.”
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/07/the-wrong-kind-of-trees-irelands-afforestation-meets-resistance – July 7, 2019
  
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  September 24, 2021 9:03am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Return all the farmland to trees, did you say?
  
  Sounds like a Great Reset to me.
  
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  September 24, 2021 9:27am
- Ruawai
  
  Surely it is better to go into native than pine as there is way more biodiversity in native forests than pine forests. If carbon credits from forest planting are for the benefit of the environment then they wouldn’t be given for pine only for native. This is not really about the environment, it is about big business buying their way out of polluting.
  
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  September 24, 2021 9:33am
- Happy1
  
  It’s even worse down here with the wilding pines. Left to its own devices the whole of the SI east coast doc and high country including the Mackenzie country would be smothered in pines, until the fire.
  
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  September 24, 2021 9:38am
- Bluegrass
  
  Can the NZ native birds exist in a pine tree environment?
  
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  September 24, 2021 1:21pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Some can… especially invertebrate eaters such as Kiwi, grey warbler, whiteheads, and morepork.
    
    If the plantation forest is opening up with an understorey of native plants or contains creeks, ponds, etc then a few more native bird species will visit or inhabit the forest for part of their life.
    
    Not much to be found in dense young pine plantations though.
    
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    September 24, 2021 3:00pm
Simon

When delta became the dominant variant after mass vaxxs the vaccination true believers didnt say there was a problem with the vaxx there was just a problem with delta.

The vaxxs were supposed to contain or virtually eliminate the virus. herd immunity through vaccination. Glory of modern technology. Instead the virus changed and evolved. Mass vaccination worldwide has failed and probably made the covid worse.

Watch the train wreck unfolding in northern hemisphere over their winter.

The virus changed due to mass vaccinations. E.g Delta. The vaccination people got it badly wrong. Watch as they double down. Simples.
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September 24, 2021 8:02am
- Lance
  
  Vaccinations have made Covid worse????
  I call utter utter bullshit on that
  
  Covid was able to mutate into a more virulent form because it had a vast host to try countless mutations until one emerged that enhanced it’s likelihood of increased trnasmission. And now it’s off and running.
  That’s how virus’s work FFS.
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:46am
  - Ed Snack
    
    You misunderstand Lance. Vaccination that does not prevent a person catching and transmitting the disease is a very strong driver of mutation.
    
    For example for measles, vaccinated people are not only far less likely to catch measles, but if the do they only very rarely are infectious. Such a vaccine is called a sterilising vaccine. So there is no evolutionary pressure, a measles virus may mutate to be more likely to be caught by a vaccinated person, but won’t get passed on to any significant degree, so the mutation won’t normally spread. So we still use the same measles virus from years ago as the pattern to vaccinate against.
    
    The Covid vaccines are proven non-sterilizing, so mutational changes to enhance the chance of breaking through the induced immunity evolve and spread rapidly. This is not something new, it is known factor in vaccination science.
    
    Unfortunately we don’t (yet ?) seem to have a sterilizing vaccine for Covid, so mass vaccination with the consequent breakthroughs is indeed a mutation and selection driver for the evolution of the virus. Without the vaccines, there would be less pressure driving that.
    
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    September 24, 2021 10:33am
    - miltonF
      
      Correct. It’s exactly the same theory as antibiotic resistance. You have to kill off or prevent the infection effectively, otherwise you are giving it a chance to mutate, spread and develop resistance. This is really basic science.
      
      Viruses multiply even faster than bacteria, mutations happen more frequently, so this process of vaccine resistance happens much faster than we typically see with antibiotic resistance.
      
      Like I’ve said before, it is counter productive to mass vaccinate with a leaky vaccine. This just creates variants which avoid said vaccine, making the protection given to the vulnerable useless over time.
      
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      September 24, 2021 2:22pm
- dannz
  
  You might have noticed delta came out of India where vaccinations were neglible. It was always going to mutate regardless of vaccines.
  
  Either way, any semi logical analysis says the risks of catching COVID without the vaccine far outweigh catching it after vaccination.
  
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  September 24, 2021 9:01am
  - Clownworld
    
    The fourth “identified” mutation of WuHan engineered or escaped V in India was more probably a complex combination of things for emerging. One key factor is the widespread low level i.e. Vitamin D in the Indian population. Another likely factor is the crowded urban living conditions where all diseases spread easily. Contrast to Sweden, where population regularly take supplement Vitamin D due to long winter months and also are known to predominantly live in spaced out low density populations and are very cilturally aware of being socially spaced out.
    
    There are many other variables to consider of course. We simply don ‘t have a synthesis now of a) clear knowledge of the virus
    b) clarity of differences between medical solutions
    c) longer term results to measure what is the best solution.
    
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    September 24, 2021 5:40pm
Exclamation Mark

The Government has announced the interim boards of the new Māori Health Authority and not one of of our MSM outlets thought it worth mentioning that the co-chair Tipa Mahuta is the sister of Nanaia Mahuta.

Must be nice having a sister who’s a government minister that can tap you on the shoulder for high powered roles like this.

C’mon National – call out this bullshit nepotism!
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September 24, 2021 8:07am
- Ra Henare
  
  Small correction. TV1 6pm news mentioned it yesterday.
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:16am
  - Exclamation Mark
    
    Thank you, I don’t watch the news but I checked RNZ, Stuff, Newshub and the Herald – none of them mentioned it.
    
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    September 24, 2021 8:47am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Not going to happen. National is Labour-lite
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:43am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I doubt Shane Reti will make an issue of the nepotism; it’s not his style to make personal attacks. Instead he is continuing to criticise Little for pushing these reforms through whilst the health system is struggling in a pandemic. He put out a presser yesterday:
  
  Terrible timing of restructuring reinforces Government’s inept approach to health
  
  Dr Shane Reti September 23, 2021
  
  The Government’s appointment of board members to head up its ill-timed and ideologically-driven health system restructure shows how out of step it is on the chronic issues currently affecting New Zealand’s health system, says National’s Health spokesperson Dr Shane Reti.
  
  “The Government’s costly distraction with restructuring the health system in the middle of a pandemic may explain why our Intensive Care Units were under-prepared and why Auckland is still in Level 3 lockdown.
  
  “The Government has so far spent $38 million on 78 Wellington bureaucrats and another $4.3 million on 21 Ernst & Young consultants to plan the restructure project. This money could have been used to pay a premium, as other countries did, to get the Pfizer vaccine into New Zealand much more quickly.
  
  “The Government should be focusing on the 62,000 cancelled procedures, including for people with cancer, right now rather than progressing health restructuring during a pandemic.
  
  “And today’s announcement of board appointments for the ideological restructure is both cynical and confounding.
  
  “Why does the Government continue to disregard General Practitioners? There is no primary care person on the new Health New Zealand board, which continues the Government’s theme of ignoring GPs and pharmacies throughout the Covid vaccine rollout.
  
  “Instead, the Government is adding layers of new health bureaucracy, at a starting cost of $486 million.
  
  “Does the Government not understand or appreciate that primary care is the gateway to the health system and by continuing to ignore this fact that the system will fail?”
  
  https://www.national.org.nz/terrible-timing-of-restructuring-reinforces-governments-inept-approach-to-health
  
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  September 24, 2021 9:00am
  - Yvette
    
    Tony Stuart
    It would seem appropriate again to point out that, of ex-Health Minister David Clark, Ardern said – “Under normal conditions I would sack the Minister of Health. What he did was wrong, and there are no excuses. “But right now, my priority is our collective fight against Covid-19. We cannot afford massive disruption in the health sector or to our[covid] response. For that reason, and that reason alone, Dr Clark will maintain his role.” [1]
    
    So, consider now –
    Terrible timing of restructuring reinforces Government’s inept approach to health
    – Dr Shane Reti September 23, 2021
    
    [1] https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-lockdown-health-minister-david-clark-demoted-after-driving-20km-to-beach-breaking-lockdown-rules/X4AP6J336VNHT7OJYZB6YT6VKQ/
    
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    September 24, 2021 9:12am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Indeed Yvette; well noted!
      
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      September 24, 2021 11:35am
- Paulus
  
  Nobody cares about Maori nepotism especially the media who don’t care unless they are not paid.
  And as long as they get Grant’s money from anywhere.
  The Mahuta power base is growing fast now and we can see expectations form the Maori Caucus and others for Nanaia as Cindy’s successor.
  Grant not a Maori so not in the new Aotearoa picture.
  
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  September 24, 2021 1:14pm
artemisia

45 back in 2024? There are hints about him standing again. Current President and VP not doing well in the polls, and that would be an understatement. Mid terms next year will be a leading indicator one way or the other.

Meanwhile the report of the Maricopa County audit is about to be presented. Lawyers getting ready.
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September 24, 2021 8:07am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The Dems know it is going to happen, and are doing everything they can to halt it. The only way 45 will be stopped is assassination. And we know who is capable
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:46am
  - MCos
    
    There is another way.
    Yet another rigged election.
    
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    September 24, 2021 8:52am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      You mean 2020 was rigged?
      
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      September 24, 2021 11:06am
  - dcrane
    
    He was stopped in 2020, and not by assassination. By a multi-pronged theft of the election, beginning with massive opinion manipulation by mainstream and social media, probably followed by ballot harvesting and remote ballot fraud on a large scale.
    
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    September 24, 2021 8:53am
    - riffer
      
      My, that is some class A bullshit.
      
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      September 24, 2021 10:08am
      - dcrane
        
        The suppression of the Hunter Biden laptop and all of its associated scandals, both high and low – all being proven true by the way (have you not been reading?) – was enough to steal the election. No way Biden’s slim 43,000-vote win would have survived those scandals had they not been suppressed by social and mainstream media systems, with help from a corrupt intelligence community.
        
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        September 24, 2021 10:36am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Well, the media and social media manipulation is extremely real and well documented if you would go outside your bubble. The rigged election is also pretty well attested for, though the system is indeed rigged against anyone trying to show it.
        
        If 2020 was so clean and secure, why are the Democrats (and never-Trump Republicans) so desperately determined not to allow any scrutiny at all of the election processes and results. Surely, if you have faith in how clean it was you would welcome scrutiny as that would only support your contention, no?
        
        Just a quick example of one issue. In Georgia the local electoral law states that all voters must only vote in the county that they are registered in – this has been the law for a considerable time. So if you are registered in, say, Macon county and vote in a different one, your vote is legally invalid. No question of that according to the law. And this hasn’t been an issue in the past as with the large majority of people voting in person, voters almost always vote as legally required or get a special vote at the polling station. In 2020 with a large mail- in vote, a largish number of ballots violated this rule. Therefore on 4 November the Trump campaign officially complained about this law violation, and sued to have all such illegal votes disqualified as the law states. The chief judge of the court where the case had to be filed “agreed” that they had a valid case, and agreed to appoint a judge to hear the case. Despite multiple appeals for urgency (denied), a judge was appointed on 16 December. That judge looked at his calendar and scheduled a hearing on the substance on 8 January. An immediate appeal was lodged as that was after the vote would have been certified and thus was useless. Appeal denied. So the case was ultimately dropped.
        
        So it doesn’t matter how illegal the vote was, if the legal system is set against you, relief is impossible to obtain and the illegal votes will be counted. Just for info, the number of votes concerned was over 80K, mail in votes went at least 75% for Biden, so if successful the challenge would have removed over 60K votes from Biden and delivered the state to Trump. Pretty obvious why illegal votes were thus allowed to remain counted.
        
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        September 24, 2021 10:45am
- dcrane
  
  “Not doing well”…what an understatement. And for a guy who claims to have garnered 80+ million votes less than a year ago. Recently a poll found 42% of Americans believe he is no longer mentally capable to be president.
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:51am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Biden could not get enough supporters at a rally to fill a school classroom. Trump? Well the stadiums overloaded, then the boats (11000 people) – then the vehicle parade that was 96 miles long. How’s them bananas?
    
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    September 24, 2021 2:02pm
- virtualmark
  
  The Dems would love for Trump to run again in 2024.
  
  Nothing would galvanise both their base and the swing voter more than having Trump back on the ballot.
  
  Remember that Trump managed to lose the House, the Senate and the Presidency in 4 years. He’s the Democrat’s dream candidate.
  
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  September 24, 2021 9:24am
  - Frank the tank
    
    You sure about that one?
    
    If the economic and social position of the US is in a bad way in 18 months (which is unfortunately odds-on) people will look for a ‘savior’.
    
    The actions of the old coot’s minders over the past 2 months have made the return of Trump from a 30/70 chance to an even 50/50. In any case he looms large over the electoral landscape of the US.
    
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    September 24, 2021 10:18am
  - Matt Long
    
    The question asked in the Pew poll as I recall was who would you vote for if the election was held today. Independents were deserting team dementia for Trump.
    
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    September 24, 2021 10:46am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Rubbish, the Dems know that Trump will crush them in 2024 if he runs, so they will try pretty hard to try to prevent him doing so.
    
    Trump faced greater obstacles to re-election than almost any former President. The entirety of the traditional media and all the new social media had not just been against him for 4 years but were actively involved in fabricating and passing on fabrications against him. They also actively suppressed negative information about his opponent on specious and invented grounds (Hunter’s laptop is Russian disinformation – as if anyone but a low information Democrat could actually credit that !).
    
    To top that off the Covid pandemic arrived, and with it another mountain of media misinformation and narrative direction. The pandemic also unsurprisingly derailed one of Trump’s important accomplishments, the reinvigoration of the US economy with large increases in employment especially for Black and other “POC” workers. And not just employment, pay increases for lower level workers increased at a faster rate than higher level employees for the first time in decades.
    
    What’s more, most Presidents lose seats in the mid term elections – so Trump losing the House in 2018 was not unusual at all, Obama after all lost the House in 2014. Trump unusually took the Senate in 2018, and only lost in 2020 because of the vote rigging in Georgia. Trump although losing in 2020 also nearly regained the house, which is most unusual as losing incumbents in the past always lose House seats.
    
    So if things continue as they are, I would expect both the House and Senate to change hands in 2022, possibly in landslide numbers; and unless a New Democrat face arises in the next 2-3 years, 2024 will be an easy win to Trump if he runs. Biden won’t be able to run in 2024, and probably won’t last until then anyway. And Harris is just not POTUS material.
    
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    September 24, 2021 10:57am
  - Stu2
    
    His performance on Covid cost him, that won’t be in the mix if he runs again
    
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    September 24, 2021 12:16pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      Rubbish – he was the one to get ‘Operation Warp Speed’ going. If it wasn’t for his initiative we still might not have a Covid jab.
      
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      September 24, 2021 1:44pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      His claimed performance is the key. In fact apart from some unimportant details that haven’t had any impact, Biden has done nothing more than what Trump did or planned to do. Worth remembering that the US is a collection of states and in many things the Feds cannot simply mandate things.
      
      The ability of the media acting as propaganda agents for the Democrats is the major reason why Tump was perceived to have not acted well with regard to Covid. That was the narrative and it was advanced relentlessly regardless of the truth of the matter.
      
      The same effect but with opposite intent played out in NZ, Jacinda has been the beneficiary of. Sustained campaign to praise the actions taken even when obviously incompetent.
      
      The power and ability of the media to set the narrative has been behind the “success” (in elections anyway) of the Democrats in the US and Labour in NZ.
      
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      September 24, 2021 11:15pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Did not lose – it was stolen and you know it
    
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    September 24, 2021 2:03pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

It is not the responsibility of the Unvaccinated to protect the Vaccinated.
That is the Vaccines’ job
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September 24, 2021 8:08am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  And it should be clear now to every medical person in NZ that being vaccinated does not stop you from catching or transmitting the virus.
  
  Still infectious while vaccinated
  The problem we face at the moment is that it has become clear that you can be fully vaccinated yet still have infection with the Delta variant. Almost universally, the virus does not cause severe illness in those that are vaccinated, but the vaccine still allows the virus to transmit.
  
  https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/undoctored/delving-delta-virus-slowly-giving-its-secrets
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:13am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Being vaccinated does stop you from catching (and transmitting) the virus. That’s exactly what a vaccine is designed to do. The only catch is that nobody who has had the Pfizer jab has been vaccinated. It’s not a vaccine in any sense of the word, and clearly doesn’t do the job of a vaccine.
    
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    September 24, 2021 8:45am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      FDA approved does not mean it works
      
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      September 24, 2021 8:48am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        The name Janet Woodcock of FDA comes to mind. She also approved Fentanyl as a painkiller (may or may not be OK)
        Paid muppet
        
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        September 24, 2021 9:20am
    - Fletch
      
      I watched a video someone posted here the other day of a female scientist in the U.S giving testimony, and strangely, she said that the current vaccine given to people in the U.S for whooping cough does not stop transmission – that it is a different vaccine than which used to be given to people decades ago which did stop transmission. It was because it was a safer vaccine with fewer side effects or something.
      
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      September 24, 2021 12:06pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    That’s incorrect, it is not true that “almost universally the virus does not cause severe illness in those that are vaccinated…”
    
    The vaccine reduces the chance that one will catch, will become seriously ill if caught, or die if seriously ill. But it is far from a “universal” reduction. More like 50-75% reduction.
    
    Double shot vaccinated and even those with third booster shots can become seriously ill and die, and in non-trivial numbers. However they do so at a lower rate than if not vaccinated. For young people the difference is smaller as Covid is typically far less dangerous the younger one is. At some point the rate of adverse vaccine reactions passes the rate adverse disease reactions.
    
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    September 24, 2021 11:02am
  - Durden
    
    MW
    
    “Almost universally, the virus does not cause severe illness in those that are vaccinated” . While true, it should be added that this is only for a short while somewhere between 4-x months. Not enough time has gone by to asses if/and at what stage serious hospitalisation cases of breakthrough infection and possibly death occur.
    
    The current vaccines are short term prophylactics at best. They will start talking about a lifelong prophylactic programme of boosters, unless a true vaccine is found.
    
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    September 24, 2021 3:25pm
- all true
  
  Very simple it is.
  Everybody has an option for free vaccination.
  People then can make their own choices if they like to vaccinate or not, that’s their own risk assessment they do.
  Antivaccine people they have taken the risk either to be serious ill or die, so be it.
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:22am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Your last statement is nonsense. While there may be people who have chosen not to take the vaccine who can correctly be labelled “anti-vaccine” the vast majority of us are pro-vaccine, just not this “vaccine”.
    
    To suggest that not taking the “vaccine” means you’re going to be seriously ill, or die (presumably from COVID), and that taking the vaccine prevents both of those outcomes, is laughable.
    
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    September 24, 2021 8:49am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Exactly. I am pro vaccine, just not the Covid one. Less than 2 years research. I had quite a few vaxes when I was a kid, missed out on some like chickenpox, English and German measles, mumps. See, we lived in the sticks – no Doctor or Hospital close. By the time I actually got sick it was too late. But as a result I have natural immunity.
      
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      September 24, 2021 9:25am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “and that taking the vaccine prevents both of those outcomes, is laughable”
      
      How so? OK not “prevent” but you get “drastically reduces the probability of…” right?
      
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      September 24, 2021 10:11am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        ‘How so? OK not “prevent”’
        
        You’ve answered your own question.
        
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        September 24, 2021 6:45pm
  - Lance
    
    Trouble is are they going to take hospital beds away from people that need them?
    I would be happier if they agree in writing they will refuse hospitalization for Covid related breathing problems.
    That way we know they are not ‘all mouth and trousers’.
    
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    September 24, 2021 8:51am
    - RiP NZ
      
      I know Lance, all those more deserving citizens right.
      More deserving of healthcare, do you want to list them out for us please?
      Lets see, all of the self inflicted through life style choices would be a good start. The obese, HIV, smoking related cancer suffers, alcoholics, injuries through gang fights ….
      
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      September 24, 2021 9:52am
    - Inandout
      
      Lance, if the many obese people in our society take hospital beds is it because they are junk food gluttons and cause their own medical problems? By your criteria doctors should refuse to treat them because by any measure these people eventually self destruct. I just ask for a bit of logic in this discussion.
      
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      September 24, 2021 11:23am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The point is, if something happens there is no comeback. No ACC, can not sue the Govt, the importer, the manufacturer.
    So if you get a blood clot and have a stroke or heart attack, you are on your own
    
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    September 24, 2021 8:52am
    - dannz
      
      So who you gonna sue when (not if) you catch Covid?
      
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      September 24, 2021 9:04am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Comprehension, I was talking about the vax, not the virus
        
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        September 24, 2021 11:09am
      - Clownworld
        
        The virus depends can you sue a natural occuring virus? Or sue a country or a lab or a scientist or a bureaucrat in the country of origin if a bioweapon or an escape from a lab?
        
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        September 24, 2021 8:55pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Can’t sue in NZ for medical mishaps.
        
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        September 24, 2021 9:45pm
    - Happy1
      
      Either way there is no comeback.
      
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      September 24, 2021 9:21am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      You do know that the chances of blood clots as a complication of COVID disease are hundreds of times higher than the risk of those things happening because of the vaccine? Right?
      
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      September 24, 2021 10:13am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Benedict, depending on age, that may be wrong.
        
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        September 24, 2021 11:05am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        If you say so, but you are not the one that had recent anaphylaxis. Try it one day – it is no fun
        
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        September 24, 2021 11:10am
      - miltonF
        
        Only if you are 50+ years old. The opposite is true for younger people. A 18yr old is something like 2-3x more likely to have complications from the vaccine than the virus itself.
        
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        September 24, 2021 2:36pm
      - John Pakes
        
        Like beating your head against a wall, Benedict. Those agin you will forever be.
        Steve Otto talks about anaphylaxis, which can be quite bad and can be caused by a lot of things. Mine was caused by taking Voltaren. In my mind, that is no excuse for me to cry foul of the science.
        
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        September 24, 2021 2:47pm
Tony Stuart

Is anyone at all surprised that the Mongrel Mob in Wairoa (Hawke’s Bay) has been busted for selling methamphetamine.

Maybe Harry Tam will be applying for a further $2.75m to run a meth programme in Wairoa, given the PM was so generous to him.

There’s a fly in the ointment though; yesterday Simeon Brown’s Member’s Bill which seeks to ban public money being given to gangs was drawn from the biscuit tin at Parliament.

https://twitter.com/SimeonBrownMP/status/1440833007569436675
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September 24, 2021 8:09am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Given Labour’s outright majority there is zero chance of Simeon’s Bill going the distance.
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:22am
- mandk
  
  Sadly, it’s virtually certain that Simeon Brown’s Bill will be killed off by Labour at the first opportunity.
  
  It’s far too embarrassing for Cindy and the Crim Huggers.
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:28am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Yes, although I am sure Brown will get maximum mileage out of his Bill being voted down, and given the public reaction to the $2.75m given to Tam, he can give the government another bloody nose.
    
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    September 24, 2021 9:03am
    - Frank the tank
      
      Also add into the mix that likelihood that gangs are at the epicenter of the Auckland covid outbreak it should get some reasonable political mileage.
      
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      September 24, 2021 10:20am
- pdm
  
  Sonny Smith Waipawa and recipient of $2m plus from Jacinda used to have strong ties to the Wairoa Mongrel Mob.
  
  We have been – been living out of Waipawa for nearly 20 years so not sure if that is still the case.
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:45am
- Libertarians are right
  
  It’s also worth noting that Harry Tam has also got in on the scam that is writing cultural reports for the courts.
  
  Seriously, what is the Government doing?
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:59am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Harry Tam is been working for the Corrections Dept for a long time, either as an employee or a consultant. I think though he’s been a member of the Mongrel Mob for longer.
    
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    September 24, 2021 9:24am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Not as an inmate?
      
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      September 24, 2021 1:00pm
- Inandout
  
  TS, given the Police horror at what Jacinda has done in cuddling the MM probably means they or their families won’t rush to vote Labour. There is also the side effect of slowing Police recruitment. I must add that the woke Commissioner’s reputation among the ranks is abysmal.
  
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  September 24, 2021 11:30am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Dead right it is, as is that of the Minister. I had a chat with a local constable when we were doing a National Party promotion just before lockdown, and when I asked the officer what they and their colleagues thought of the Minister, they burst out laughing. It was hardly a ringing endorsement!
    
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    September 24, 2021 11:37am
    - Stu2
      
      True of so many of the ministers – Mr $700m cycle bridge, Mr thinking about immigration but not doing anything, Twyford, Mr no ICU capacity improvement, the dudes who thought the border workers were being tested …
      
      And more
      
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      September 24, 2021 12:22pm
    - Stu2
      
      From the presser
      
      Robertson hasn’t seen any change in the view of the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine.
      “We have no doubt that Pfizer has a very high level of efficacy.”
      
      McElnay said it’s about 95 per cent against death and severe disease. They’re still waiting for the latest updates on the efficacy of Pfizer with Delta’s transmissibility.
      
      Pfizer discussed a report they had done themselves in late July:
      
      The study found the vaccine’s effectiveness was strongest, at 96.2%, between one week and two months after receiving the second dose. It declined an average of 6% every two months, according to the study, which signed up more than 44,000 people across the U.S. and other countries. The efficacy after “four to six months was approximately 84%,” Bourla (Pfizer CEO) said
      
      “We have seen also data from Israel that there is a waning of immunity and that starts impacting what used to be what was 100% against hospitalization. Now, after the six month period, is becoming low 90s and mid-to-high 80s,” Bourla said.
      
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      September 24, 2021 1:40pm
dcrane

A complete hack-job by Stuff:

“The 90% Project: 10 of the biggest vaccine myths debunked”

I stopped after the first two – the claims are not debunked at all. And the second, about the question of vaccine effect on menstrual cycles and fertility, doesn’t bother to mention that the NIH has funded ongoing studies of exactly this question.

Never before have western newspapers felt so much like Soviet-era propaganda.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/the-90-project-10-of-the-biggest-vaccine-myths-debunked/J3GAVRTRTG2KH3RC5GLGTULAIA/
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September 24, 2021 8:09am
- Loddenthinks
  
  I waded my way through the sick-making waffle and found this gem, delivered without a trace of irony:
  
  “During a pandemic there is already a precedent set for indemnifying vaccine manufacturers. This does not mean the vaccines are not safe.”
  
  Do tell, and while you’re at it perhaps you could explain the need for indemnity if the vaccines are safe. Take your time.
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:52am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  1, 2, 3, 8, and 9 are lies
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:55am
- marcw
  
  Your link is to NZ Herald, not stuff.
  
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  September 24, 2021 9:28am
  - dcrane
    
    Thanks…they do tend to blur into one in my mind.
    
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    September 24, 2021 9:47am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  And if you check Medsafe’s adverse reactions register, you will see Medical authorities are meant to be on the lookout for any reports of menstrual disorders following the pfizer vaccination.
  
  https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/safety-report-27.asp
  
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  September 24, 2021 9:38am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  The two bits of this that really got to me:
  A) The intro:
  “Misinformation shared online threatens to undermine New Zealand’s big push to lift vaccination rates above 90 per cent, which could bring us fewer Covid-19 deaths and hospital cases, and more freedom. Here, University of Auckland vaccinologist Associate Professor Helen Petousis-Harris debunks 10 of the biggest vaccine myths circulating on social media.”
  B) the rationale for :
  “9.No, vaccine companies aren’t exempt from all liability”
  
  “Once a vaccine is licensed for use, most countries have a system for injury compensation, should someone suffer a vaccine-related adverse event. If every person who believed they had been injured by a vaccine sued the vaccine manufacturer, nobody would make vaccines because it costs millions to deal with these things. In New Zealand, ACC provides this cover. But to say “vaccine companies are exempt from all liability” is wrong. A vaccine company can still be held accountable if there is willful misconduct such as fraud or deceit. However, if there are unforeseen problems, then no. During a pandemic there is already a precedent set for indemnifying vaccine manufacturers. This does not mean the vaccines are not safe.”
  
  Most of the other 9 debunking’ s rationale were just as misleading one way or another.
  
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  September 24, 2021 9:45am
Yvette

Coronavirus: Low COVID-19 vaccination rates further proof Māori Health Authority is needed – Health Minister Andrew Little
However – Awerangi Tamihere said the current situation could have been avoided.
“The whole way in which you engage with our people was done wrong from the start,” she said.
Tamihere said providers knew this already, which was why they raised it last year – well ahead of the rollout and the Delta outbreak.

So while he was coming up with the Māori Health Authority initiative – but claiming he had not at the time read the He Puapua Report – Little ignored “a strong Māori voice right at the outset of all the planning and decisions being made, not only how to respond to Covid-19 but actually running the vaccination campaign” – which are Little’s own words as he now says that foresight would be the advantage of having the Māori Health Authority, but is the Maori voice Andrew Little ignored last year, and so as Awerangi Tamihere says (above) “the current situation could have been avoided.”

This echoes Malcolm Campbell, whose son Malcolm died in the Pike River disaster, and who has – pointed out that Minister Andrew Little was the head of the Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union (EPMU) when the mine exploded, and that “along with mine managers, and especially health and safety management, they said the mine was safe.”

Now, Hon Andrew Little, ironically Minister Responsible for Pike River Re-entry, has hind-vision (always 20-20) of the event, as Little, being Health Minister setting up the Māori Health Authority, has again ignored the voices he should have heeded in the first place.

This aerosol seems to have brilliant hindsight but selective deafness.

Covid response quotes – https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/coronavirus-low-covid-19-vaccination-rates-further-proof-m-ori-health-authority-is-needed-health-minister-andrew-little.html
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September 24, 2021 8:13am
I remember when

Nowhere Left For Covid To Go:
Lead scientist behind the Oxford vaccine says, “Covid is unlikely to mutate into a much deadlier variant because there ‘aren’t many places for the virus to go’.”
So the wheel has turned a full circle.
Remember way back at the start when it was suggested that covid only had limited ways to mutate.
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September 24, 2021 8:14am
I remember when

Okay! If not Three Waters – How about Two.
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September 24, 2021 8:15am
I remember when

The ‘Long Tale’ of covid.
Much debate on the why and wherefores without mentioning the “very” likely reason.
1. Members of the gangs have covid.
2. Members of the gangs sell drugs.
3. Selling drugs doesn’t stop during lockdown.
4. People buying drug get covid.
End result is a group of possible covid cases who aren’t interested in explaining all their contacts.
Dr. Ashley obviously realises it has gone underground – the reason for his statement when on the podium.
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September 24, 2021 8:25am
- dcrane
  
  There’s some amusement in watching Ardern’s Elimination strategy foundering after striking the growing Gang Problem iceberg.
  
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  September 24, 2021 8:58am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Just checked the full Hansard transcript from yesterday’s 1 p.m. presser. Thirteen bloody pages long so didn’t read the whole thing !
    
    Results from two simple word searches of the entire document covering media, PM, Bloomfield and Hendy statements/comments/questions:
    
    Word Count
    Elimination 0
    Sustainable 6
    
    So notice has been served to media and other participants that “elimination” is now banned as the strategy descriptor, the new strategic descriptor is “sustainable”.
    
    No overt admission that the elimination strategy has failed because she (the PM) can never be wrong.
    Sickening really – but predictable.!
    
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    September 24, 2021 10:17am
I remember when

Shaun Hendry Model:
If we only vaccinate 80% of New Zealanders over 5 there could be 7000 covid deaths each year.
When we reach 90% vaccinated he suggested perhaps a drop to 50.
Nobody asked whether it would be 980,000 if we stopped at 70%.
Or, perhaps 137,200,000 at 60%.
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September 24, 2021 8:35am
- Ruawai
  
  How is it possible for 10% more vaccinations to result in 6950 fewer deaths.
  
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  September 24, 2021 9:49am
  - Stu2
    
    Simple. You stop counting deaths when you get to 50
    
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    September 24, 2021 12:24pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  Numbers don’t lie!
  
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  September 24, 2021 6:51pm
RockyJ

Andrew Little has announced the board members of his new apartheid health system. I can’t wait for the day that David Seymour asks him in parliament to list the medications that Pharmac will fund for Maori but that the rest of us will miss out on.
Little said one of the outcomes of an apartheid health system will be that it will “be more consistent”. Just proves that when a Labour politician says anything they mean the exact opposite.
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September 24, 2021 8:43am
nathie

Classic! Just heard Hosking on the car radio play back audio of when Ardern says “happy to take your questions” (after the PM finishes her “daily” covid press conference) who the first Press Gallery journalists Ardern reaches out to are … predictably they are usually either:

“Jessica”, or
“Tova”, or
“Jessica”, or
“Tova”, or
“Jessica”, or
“Tova”, or
“Jessica”, or
“Tova”, or
“Jessica”, or
“Tova” etc!

Mind you sometimes “Jenna” is near the top of the list. She has done some “great hit-pieces” on National occasionally so that might explain it.

So the one thing they all have in common is that all 3 of them give the PM an easy ride but go feral on Judith Collins (or Simon Bridges) as leaders, giving new meaning to “Holding the Opposition to Account”!

However one has to laugh when Hosking’s Aussie correspondent said it is known as “Feeding the Chooks”! Seems an apt description for some in the MSM!
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September 24, 2021 8:59am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Sometimes someone else gets an unscripted question in. Jaspinda says she will come back – but she never does. Seen it about 4 times now.
  Not part of the $110M, then you get sfa
  
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  September 24, 2021 9:30am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Yes that was hilarious especially when the name “Benedict” came up. He was standing in for Jessica….LOL.
  
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  September 24, 2021 10:58am
- Inandout
  
  The Aussie Olds chap has laid the blame for the Melbourne CBD walks by protestors as Trump linked. You see one guy wore a MAGA hat and that is enough to paint the whole protest as extreme right wing. Murray O sometimes is a tool and will throw words like ‘idiot’ and ‘moron’ around like confetti.
  
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  September 24, 2021 11:38am
Maggie Pie

Chatting with Ma earlier….
She was saying she tuned into ‘Question Time’ yesterday.
Trevor was his usual belligerent self.
JuCo was on fire. Had Cinders rattled.
Although the one that really impressed her was Labor’s Anna Lorck.
Reckoned she didn’t seem to fit with the rest of the Party.
Smart, bright, attractive, well dressed, BIG personality.
Thought she would be far better suited to National.
Reminded her a bit of ex Invers MP Sarah Dowie.

Just saying.
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September 24, 2021 9:14am
- RockyJ
  
  I have just about given up speculating whether some courageous smart Labour MP (there must be one) will break ranks and speak out against the idiocracy that is our government. A kind of John A Lee type.
  Sadly, it seems they are all too addicted to the narcotic of high salaries, perks and false feelings of importance.
  
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  September 24, 2021 9:21am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Totally agree about Anna Lorck.
  She is most un-labour.
  
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  September 24, 2021 10:20am
- All_on_Red
  
  Anna Lorck has the rather awkward nickname of “Marge”
  lol
  
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  September 24, 2021 10:36am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Anna Lorck used to be a John Key fangirl.
  
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  September 24, 2021 11:38am
- James Stephenson
  
  Reminded her a bit of ex Invers MP Sarah Dowie.
  
  In regards to attitudes to marital fidelity you mean?
  
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  September 24, 2021 3:04pm
Spam

Well done to Bob McCoskrie. His “Face the Media” video is very enlightening.
https://bobmccoskrie.com/?p=27981#sthash.5Xhsp1c8.dpbs
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September 24, 2021 9:25am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vdk6I5M7UyU

Lithuania’s new advisory to its citizens.

Lithuania’s defence ministry recommended that consumers avoid buying Chinese mobile phones and advised people to throw away the ones they currently have, after a government report found the devices had built-in censorship capabilities. Concerns have been abounding across the world regarding the security of Chinese smartphones and electronic products, and how user privacy could, in fact, be gravely impacted for those who use products belonging to Chinese companies. [6:52]
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September 24, 2021 9:40am
curry4me

https://redstate.com/bonchie/2021/09/22/the-feds-are-forced-to-release-january-6th-surveillance-footage-and-narratives-crumble-n446766

The Feds Are Forced to Release January 6th Surveillance Footage and Narratives Crumble.

Why has the federal government been trying so hard to keep surveillance footage of January 6th under wraps? We may have an answer to that question if a set of newly released videos are any indication.
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September 24, 2021 9:41am
- All_on_Red
  
  Three Federal Judges have now queried whether ‘Obstruction’ can even be used as a Charge.
  Their view is that no legal proceeding were interfered with- unlike the Senate Hearings for Kavanaugh which protesters invaded.
  
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  September 24, 2021 10:39am
  - Okahu
    
    Yes, except for the senate process of confirming the electoral college votes. Naturally that is of little concern to constitutional compliance or history so I suppose you could think there was no obstruction of legal proceedings. Of course that might depend how tightly you can interpret obstruction (giving cause for people with a constitutional task to perform at a proscribed place and time to flee?) and ‘legal proceedings’. Should be a doddle.
    
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    September 24, 2021 7:10pm
- dcrane
  
  I’ve heard references to tens of thousands of hours of video that have not been released. Most likely this order applies to only a tiny fraction of that. Would like to know if that’s wrong.
  
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  September 24, 2021 10:50am
surfing

There are people who believe that the Covid mRNA vaccine safety in humans hasn’t been proven.

I understand, new vaccines have sometimes been found to be unsafe (eg, early polio vaccine caused polio). So there is naturally concern around any new vaccine, and especially so the technology is different.

The mRNA covid vaccine has been used in humans since June or July last year, so, about 15 months.

Genuine question, what would it take for those more cautious people to accept the Covid mRNA vaccine is safe for humans?
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September 24, 2021 9:42am
- dcrane
  
  Define “safe”, for starters. It looks like the covid-19 vaccines do not present a substantial risk to life or health, over the short term anyway. It also looks like they might be more dangerous than many of the vaccines we were using before. So how safe is safe?
  
  Add in the fact that the technology is new, never having been widely applied before, and it adds up to uncertainty for those with low covid risk (teenagers, 20-somethings) over whether it is worth the risk to get vaccinated. Much more time will help alleviate that. It also would have helped if large-scale, systematic data had been taken on post-vaccine outcomes during the main deployment (VAERS is not systematic), but I have not seen any such studies published. If anything, that obvious course of action seems to have been avoided.
  
  For the elderly, the vaccine is almost certainly worth it imo (assuming one has a chance of catching covid, which in much of NZ is still almost nil).
  
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  September 24, 2021 10:47am
- kowtow
  
  10 years.
  
  Thalidomide was a great idea for morning sickness , innit.
  
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  September 24, 2021 11:41am
  - Inandout
    
    kowtow, lest we forget:
    ‘The first paper describing the pharmacological actions of thalidomide was published in 1956. The drug, then designated as K17, was thought to have sedative effects superior to those of comparator drugs and was thought to be virtually nontoxic. Only 2 years after thalidomide’s launch as Contergan in Germany, it’s alleged lack of toxicity came into question, with reports of the drug causing numerous side effects. Shortly thereafter, thalidomide was connected with an epidemic of horrific deformities in children whose mothers had taken the drug during pregnancy. This disaster brought on by thalidomide’s teratogenic effects was responsible for the institution of some regulatory bodies, such as the United Kingdom’s Committee on the Safety of Drugs, and for the strengthening of others, such as the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. An objective examination of published papers and contemporary accounts confirms that the preclinical tests on thalidomide were superficial, and there is no doubt that it was never administered to pregnant animals prior to its use in patients. Within a short time after its withdrawal from the market due to its suspected association with fetal abnormalities, the drug was shown to produce fetal toxicity in laboratory animals. Had there been more extensive testing on laboratory animals before the drug was launched, the disaster could have been avoided. (c) 2002 Prous Science. All rights reserved.’
    
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    September 24, 2021 12:17pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Turned out that thalidomide is actually pretty safe if you use only the left handed chiral form (molecule comes in two possible directions of ‘twist’ and only right handed one is bad), but method of manufacture created both chiral forms.
      
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      September 24, 2021 12:32pm
- Fletch
  
  Check out the VAERS reporting system in the U.S for reporting adverse effects of vaccines. The death rate for this vaccine is greater than for 70 vaccines over the last 30 years combined.
  
  https://openvaers.com/covid-data/mortality
  
  I don’t think I will ever accept this type of mRNA vaccine. We now know that it enters the bloodstream and does not stay in the intramuscular injection site of the arm where it was supposed to. It enters the bloodstream, and starts producing the spike proteins where it is not supposed to – most worryingly in the endothelial cells that line the arteries – where the spikes are attacked by the white blood t-cells and antibodies leading to clotting of the blood. We also know from Dr Robert Malone, who was one of the people who invented mRNA vaccines, that the spikes break off from the cells they are supposed to be remained attached to, and that the spikes themselves are cytotoxic or dangerous to the body.
  
  Also, these proteins end up in high concentrations in the ovaries, bone marrow, and other organs. What happens when the t-cells attack this manufactured protein attached to a brain cell? Or some other organ?
  
  The whole thing just isn’t safe. Better to go with a traditional protein-based vaccine, like NovaVax, Covax-19, or Valneva
  
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  September 24, 2021 11:53am
  - surfing
    
    So, even if the vaccine had been around for 100 years, you’d still not trust it?
    
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    September 24, 2021 4:08pm
- Cinematic
  
  Not necessary to be convinced, other more traditional options are just around the corner.
  
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  September 24, 2021 12:24pm
Yvette

At Thursday’s 1pm press conference Government advisor Shaun Hendy, a disease modelling expert at Te Pūnaha Matatini, presented modelling which suggested 7000 Kiwis could die a year if New Zealand’s vaccination rollout stalls at 80 percent of those currently eligible, even with continued isolation and quarantine measures for those who contract the virus.

As mentioned before, 4.2 million are at present eligible for vaccination, of New Zealand’s 5 million.
So Government advisor Shaun Hendy saying if “vaccination rollout stalls at 80 percent of those currently eligible” is talking of 80% of an eligible 84% of the whole population, so a real rate of just 67% of the “Team of Five Million”.

Helps you understand that “Modelling shows even if New Zealand reaches a COVID-19 vaccination rate of 80 percent, there would still be 60,000 hospitalisations and 7000 deaths per year, without restrictions” is indeed possible.
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September 24, 2021 9:47am
- wreck1080
  
  That modelling seems flawed – even Sweden with no lockdowns and no vaccine wasn’t much higher than Hendys figures.
  
  Taking into account vaccines, better treatment, and targeted safety, I reckon his figures are 10 times too high.
  
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  September 24, 2021 11:16am
Jibber NO Jabber

We all know who the Teachers pets are don’t we? ?

https://twitter.com/viewspotnz/status/1441152307790442506
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September 24, 2021 9:54am
Captain Mainwaring

Big crowd at the closing ceremony for the Lower Hutt birthing centre. Yes, Chris Bishop was there but no sign of Hutt South MP Ginny Andersen.
Obviously her ideology would prevent her from attending. Can’t have Government money supporting a private charity.
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September 24, 2021 10:25am
Prince

Andrew Little has announced what appears to be the third “Mental Health reset, ten year plan’ in the term of this Govt.
https://fairfaxmedia.pressreader.com/the-press/20210923/281749862497425
Given the lack of detail and targets this will almost certainly be consigned to the bin, like the other two.
Of more interest is the timing – suicide stats have previously been announced in August each year, but are noticeably missing this year. Could this be a preparatory excuse for the Govt – ‘Yes there are problems but we have a new plan’ ?
This would be a typical strategy for Labour – all political manoeuvre and strategy, no delivery.
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September 24, 2021 10:46am
- Tony Stuart
  
  If Labour was serious about Mental Health, they would do what National has done in opposition and promised to do in government; create a separate portfolio for Mental Health and Suicide Prevention.
  
  Matt Doocey, who has significant work experience in the Mental Health field both in New Zealand and overseas, is doing a fantastic job holding Minister Andrew Little to account.
  
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  September 24, 2021 11:43am
I remember when

ssociate Health Minister Peeni Henare said the new Maori health authority would be a ‘game changer for our people.’
So, a Game Changer – But, will it alter the final result.
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September 24, 2021 10:49am
- Libertarians are right
  
  By “our people” he means Maori elites and by “game changer” he means massive money spinner.
  
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  September 24, 2021 1:09pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Game changer indeed. It invites a return of tribal uprising among themselves. Waikato and Ngai Tahu do not wholly own NZ. The warriors from the top of the North must be feeling restless with their mana being trampled on by being visibly left out.
  
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  September 24, 2021 1:42pm
Surely Knott

And simultaneously media declares the cold is back. Daily mail reports. “Covid is going to just become a cold’ ” And on the same day BBC headline “Is the worst cold ever” going around the UK?” It says get rest and drink fluids. The facebook heading read it’s not covid, but it’s leaving people floored. So it’s not cov-21 or gamma variant it’s just a cold from now on?

But why are they saying it isn’t covid. I thought covid is a marketing name for coronavirus 2019 cov-19.

So why arent’ the coronavirus pcr tests picking up this cold (which is a coronavirus no?) ? Why isn’t the MRNA vaccine working against this cold/coronavirus,

Many of the people in the comments who had this terrible cold were vaccinated. People in the comments say they took their tests and it’s not coming up as covid.

So my question is why is their test not positive. The PCR can’t distinguish between variants only genomic testing can do that. So wasn’t the PCR testing to see if we had coronavirus. So shouldn’t it test positive for a cold virus. And if not what is the difference between cov-19 and the regular coronavirus that the test distinguishes between

But the media winds have officially changed. It’s now a cold doing the rounds in the UK. Get rest. So should we even bother to get vaccinated. Delta seems to be over in the UK, it’s a cold not affected by the vaccine.

These cold coronaviruses are not showing up on tests and there is no recommendation to get tested. So how accurate is the world o meter coronavirus stats? Did Israel also have a severe cold outbreak these last few months? What about the US?

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-58624295
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September 24, 2021 10:59am
- miltonF
  
  In the article it doesn’t mention the cold virus circulating as a coronavirus which would explain the PCR tests failing to pick it up. The PCR test will pick up common cold viruses but only of the coronavirus family.
  
  My guess, it’s a rhinovirus, RSV, Flu or other. Normally harmless but exacerbated by the lack of herd immunity caused by lockdowns.
  
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  September 24, 2021 3:00pm
  - miltonF
    
    Imagine if we had a nasty tummy bug going around (bacterial) and the govt’s solution was to prescribe every single NZer a dose of antibiotics. They want to “eliminate” the tummy bug. The plan is to prescribe 2/3 of a typical antibiotic regime. Enough antibiotics to lessen the symptoms, but not enough antibiotics to kill off the bacteria entirely and prevent transmission.
    
    What will be the result?
    
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    September 24, 2021 3:13pm
graham

I hadn’t realised this, so apologies if everybody else but me already knows … 🙂

It turns out that as part of James Shaw’s trip to Glasgow he applied for 10 MIQ rooms for himself and his entourage through the normal system, but failed to get the rooms. Mr Shaw said that if couldn’t get a spot then he wouldn’t be going to the conference.

Cue special treatment from … Jacinda Ardern.

However, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern got involved, ensuring the delegation would get MIQ spots.

“Yes we’re all facing a global pandemic but climate change is still the most significant threat that we face for decades to come,” she said.

“We have of course the ability to do small group booking allocations.”

There was already so much wrong with this trip, and this just adds to it. It honestly baffles me how these people can keep a straight face while they argue that the best way they can bring down carbon emissions is to hop on a jet plane and fly 36,000 km there and back.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/09/jacinda-ardern-grants-james-shaw-and-entourage-miq-spots-for-uk-climate-conference.html

I also notice that National Party climate change spokesman Stuart Smith has also been invited to the conference (as part of a long-standing practice started under the previous National Government) and has declined the invitation.

“The minister has failed to read the room on this,” Smith said.

“We have heard countless stories of New Zealanders wanting to come home but who are locked out because they can’t get MIQ spots.”
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September 24, 2021 11:27am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Also, Jaspinda is going or has gone the New York to waffle at UN. Will she isolate upon return to O ah tea rower?
  
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  September 24, 2021 11:40am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    No, Ardern cancelled her trip to the General Assembly this year.
    
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    September 24, 2021 11:44am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Sounds like you are correct, but I’m sure I heard someone on play school TV1 say she would be addressing the UN tomorrow (Friday local time)
      
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      September 24, 2021 12:22pm
    - Paulus
      
      The UN chiefs will all stand and be very sad and reflective that she has not made it !
      Next year Jerusalem!
      
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      September 24, 2021 1:27pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Next year they will all stand and be very sad she has not made it …
        Taliban as well
        
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        September 24, 2021 3:42pm
- kowtow
  
  Didn’t the ‘horrible little Green Party turd ‘ Mendacious March pull rank to get a scarce place too.
  
  We really do have an Elitist Political Class on our dollar telling the rest of us Plebs how to live our lives while they are literally part of the Jet Set.
  
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  September 24, 2021 11:48am
- Paulus
  
  Don’t really think that Cindy would support James anyway – am not sure she would enjoy see him floundering as it will drop the Greens voters and some support for them in her favour.
  
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  September 24, 2021 1:26pm
Fletch

Maybe it’s just the cynic in me, but it’s very coincidental and also lucky for the govt that this outbreak happened now. Before this, people weren’t too bothered about getting vaccinated because there was no point – we were all going on with our lives quite safely.
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September 24, 2021 11:36am
RW Capitalist

Friday…time for comedy, other than our govt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo72bccSPk8
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September 24, 2021 11:42am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Funny as
  
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  September 24, 2021 2:12pm
Bluegrass

I rarely comment in blogs on this Covid thing as it gets to become somewhat obsessive, but at the risk of appearing somewhat ignorant of the local situation, what is the situation for getting vaxxed in NZ?

Here in the States (well, here in South Carolina, but it applies generally) I can walk into a Walmart or any one of my local supermarkets and get vaxed on the spot by the guy/gal in the pharmacy section. With a choice of vaxxes. Just sign the usual medical waiver form.

Is that not the case in NZ?
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September 24, 2021 12:49pm
- Batman
  
  Here you can just go to the website and book from a range of options near you. Can be same day or same hour but you do have to book and pick a time.
  
  You book your second shot when you book the first, so the whole process is covered in one go.
  
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  September 24, 2021 1:42pm
  - Frank the tank
    
    It’s still a cumbersome process as opposed to rocking into a pharmacy or otherwise (US) and getting a jab.
    
    If you want to get above 80% you have to make it as easy as possible as 20% of all Western liberal democracies are either anti Vaxx, anti Govt, vaccine hesitant or lazy. You might get to 85%-90%ish if you actively target the latter 2 groups.
    
    The government at the start made it deliberately hard and funneled the vaccine through a limited amount of providers and would have still done so if it hadn’t been for this outbreak. That is a fact.
    
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    September 24, 2021 2:50pm
- Fletch
  
  Here in NZ it’s pretty easy to get vaxxed at your local pharmacy, but you have a choice of one. Pfizer. That’s it. When they start offering Nova, I will consider it.
  
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  September 24, 2021 2:36pm
- Hollyfield
  
  The situation changes all the time. Initially you could only go to vaccination centres, not pharmacies, and you could only book if you were in the highest risk group, and for everyone else the pamphlets were very clear “don’t call us, we’ll call you”, which I found hilarious. But there were lots of stories of ways to bypass the system – never anything official, but lots of people I know were vaccinated early even though they were not a priority group. Different unadvertised backdoor methods.
  Then they gradually opened up booking to people in slightly younger age groups incrementally. The earliest appt I could book was two months away.
  Early in this lockdown when people started to panic and try to get vaccinated, they were turned away unless they had an appointment.
  Then last week more shipments of the vaccine arrived and the Prime Minister said everyone in Auckland should get vaccinated that week, and to make an appointment or just walk in. I rebooked my appointment for the same day (because I prefer to be organised and not stand in a queue), and when I got to the pharmacy there was a sign saying they take walk-ins. In the 30-40 minutes I was there, I was the only one being vaccinated.
  Lots of glitches in the booking system – eg the Prime Minister promoted the vaccination drive through by Auckland Airport. Searching the booking system for “airport” or “Mangere” (where the airport is located) brought up no vaccination centres. Then a friend whose appointment was changed to the drive through knew where it was and told me to put in “Verissimo Drive” and that worked. But as I didn’t know where it was located, I couldn’t do that without some inside knowledge.
  When I wanted to rebook my appointment to bring it forward to the current week, the only locations that came up on the booking system were miles away. However I discovered if I booked a brand new appointment, pharmacies in my local suburb came up as options.
  So it’s easy to get vaccinated now by just walking in to certain pharmacies, but that’s only been the case for the last 2 weeks at most. All the shambles around vaccination is due to the slow and late start – it’s not until we went into lockdown with Delta that the Government took action to get vaccines into the country in any quantities.
  
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  September 24, 2021 3:48pm
graham

I see that following on from Mike Hosking doing a “Will the first question go to Tova or Jessica” segment, Bob McCoskrie has put up a video on the same subject. Good for a Friday afternoon laugh.

https://bobmccoskrie.com/?p=27981#sthash.gQQPv5Cw.dpbs

The question is, with a little ray of light being shone on this from various sides, will any of the participants change their ways? Will Tova or Jessica go to bed tonight feeling just a little embarrassed that their preferential treatment has been noticed? Will Miss Ardern start taking questions from journalists who AREN’T paid-up members of the “We Love Jacinda!” fan-club?

… not holding my breath …
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September 24, 2021 1:12pm
- Batman
  
  Mike, Bob and yourself clearly haven’t remembered that Mutch and O’Brien are the political editors of the two main TV news outlets that collectively get nearly a million eyeballs each night.
  
  Of course they get questions first, they’re the most important agencies in the Gallery.
  
  Honestly, the desperation to assign bad intent to people ends up in a desertion of common sense sometimes ?
  
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  September 24, 2021 1:30pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Says Jacinda’s most enthusiastic KB commenter, Batty boy.
    
    12 3
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    September 24, 2021 1:50pm
    - Batman
      
      Bahahaha, I have never once praised the PM, only pointed out that some of the stuff said here is hyperbolic crap.
      
      Good luck finding me saying Ardern is anything but competent at public messaging.
      
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      September 24, 2021 1:56pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Kiwiblog commenters generally can’t stand anyone who is not 100% committed to the their special strand of hyper partisanship.
        It is almost Orwellian:
        National/ACT has always been at war with Labour/Greens and everyone has always been at war with Maori.
        
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        September 24, 2021 2:06pm
      - 70andstilllearning
        
        “some of the stuff said here is hyperbolic crap.”
        
        exaggerated agree – see my comment to your previous post – Lol
        
        Having contra views around this blog is sure good for.. comedy.
        
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        September 24, 2021 4:34pm
  - Herodotus
    
    Great rebuttal that is hard to argue against your logic there. For me to extend your great justification – Perhaps our PM could also start to give her time to appearing on the radio slot that has the highest listenership ?
    “Newstalk ZB has also amassed its largest-ever share of listening in the fiercely competitive Auckland breakfast market with a massive 25.3 per cent of the Auckland breakfast radio audience for the Mike Hosking Breakfast show.”
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/radio-results-newstalk-zbs-mike-hosking-breaks-new-audience-records/DCU43ZRXY2UO6ZOKVTLZS24FXU/
    
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    September 24, 2021 2:22pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I agree entirely. All our politicians should regularly face skeptical, even hostile, interviewers.
      
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      September 24, 2021 3:31pm
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      And I would guess that %age given the competition in the radio market says a lot more than TV only having 20% of the populations news source options.
      
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      September 24, 2021 4:41pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    “….the two main TV news outlets that collectively get nearly a million eyeballs each night.”
    
    Surely an exaggerated argument to suggest that news sources watched by only 20% of the 5+ NZ population justifies giving two reporters in the Press Gallery preferential question asking treatment..
    
    BTW 2 mill eyeballs 🙂
    
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    September 24, 2021 4:28pm
- Yvette
  
  Graham – maybe some variety to offset Tova and Jessica is on its way, before Jacinda’s ploy becomes too obvious –
  
  110 journalist roles funded to provide Public Interest Journalism across the motu
  Public Interest Journalism has received an $18m boost with the announcement of funding for an additional 110 journalists* across Aotearoa with a specific mandate to produce stories that keep New Zealanders informed and engaged, and support a healthy democracy.
  
  The funding is the result of the second competitive funding round via NZ On Air’s $55m Public Interest Journalism Fund. The fund was announced in February to address a deficit in public interest journalism, a key pillar in a healthy democracy. – NZ On Air media release
  
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  September 24, 2021 1:43pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I think it is mainly directed at regional news outlets. We desperately need journalism that fills the gap left by the demise of genuinely local papers.
    
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    September 24, 2021 3:52pm
ABS4EVA

40,000 people

Have moved as far away from

JACINDA’s BEST Friend in AUS
DAN ANDREWS

that is how many have left the COT CASE
of a State Created by Labour
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September 24, 2021 1:16pm
70andstilllearning

No 1 p.m. comedy show Saturday AND Sunday. Ratings must dropping – at long last.
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September 24, 2021 1:24pm
Fletch

As I said on the other thread, Grant Robertson was asked whether the modelling numbers from yesterday were scaremongering, and he said no. The Director of Public Health Dr Caroline McElnay was also asked how effective the vaccine was, and she claimed it was very effective. Based on what?

Robertson hasn’t seen any change in the view of the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine.

“We have no doubt that Pfizer has a very high level of efficacy.”

McElnay said it’s about 95 per cent against death and severe disease. They’re still waiting for the latest updates on the efficacy of Pfizer with Delta’s transmissibility.

Seems to me they haven’t any data on Delta. We know from reports overseas that Pfizer is not as effective against Delta.
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September 24, 2021 1:38pm
- Fletch
  
  When asked if the Covid modelling done yesterday was scaremongering, Robertson said it was important to release information.
  
  In response to criticism of that modelling, he said the Government took advice from a wide range of sources.
  
  “Of course the modelling could be contested,” Robertson said, adding it was based on how many people ultimately got vaccinated.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-9-new-cases-in-community-as-auckland-readies-for-level-3-weekend/YJ7GJ6TYP4NPW4T53MKL4OUTHU/
  
  I did watch the press conference, and he did say he did not think the modelling from yesterday was scaremongering.
  
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  September 24, 2021 1:45pm
- Stu2
  
  Managed to post this far further up the thread by mistake, will repeat it
  
  In late July the Pfizer CEO spoke about a report they had done themselves:
  
  The study found the vaccine’s effectiveness was strongest, at 96.2%, between one week and two months after receiving the second dose. It declined an average of 6% every two months, according to the study, which signed up more than 44,000 people across the U.S. and other countries. The efficacy after “four to six months was approximately 84%,” Bourla (Pfizer CEO) said
  
  “We have seen also data from Israel that there is a waning of immunity and that starts impacting what used to be what was 100% against hospitalization. Now, after the six month period, is becoming low 90s and mid-to-high 80s,” Bourla said.
  
  Surely MoH know that, why is McElnay talking 95%?
  As I said earlier vaccine drop off is likely to have more impact than our vaccination level
  
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  September 24, 2021 2:10pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  That is not correct. There is plenty of data. And he is right. It is 95 percent effective against severe disease and death. 3 weeks after the shots. 6 months after? no. 12 months after? Who knows.
  
  Does he know that? Probably not.
  
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  September 24, 2021 2:22pm
Chuck Bird

I heard on Hosking this morning that Hendy tweeted overnight and referred to Collins as an asehole. Has anyone seen the tweet and knows the exact tweet.
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September 24, 2021 1:43pm
- lifesgood
  
  The sort of thing you tweet when you’re drunk. Would you trust a drunk?
  
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  September 24, 2021 2:11pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yes, and much more than a ‘spinner’
    You know who they are, of I list, Mods will give me a holiday. Lots of my comments deleted lately – with no excuse.
    Fuck, at least Batman and I bang heads, but he debates, not deletes 🙂
    
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    September 24, 2021 4:27pm
- MCos
  
  Great way to start a rumour.
  It’s easy enough to check his tweets from overnight and there’s nothing there.
  
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  September 24, 2021 2:40pm
  - James Stephenson
    
    He retweeted someone who used that description, which presumably counts an an endorsement of that view.
    
    10 1
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    September 24, 2021 3:21pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Listen to Hosking just after the 6:30 news on replay this morning. Apparently, it was a retweet.
    
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    September 24, 2021 3:25pm
    - MCos
      
      Two weeks ago, not last night.
      
      3 4
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      September 24, 2021 3:38pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        If you knew it was a two week old retreet why accuce me of making things up?
        
        5 2
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        September 24, 2021 4:17pm
      - MCos
        
        I didn’t
        
        You didn’t make anything up, but you insinuated he sent a tweet last night calling Collins an arsehole, which he didn’t.
        
        1 3
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        September 24, 2021 6:58pm
Batman

File this in the unsurprising section…

“Israel is descending from a severe 4th wave; main issue now is the unvaccinated
“17 percent of eligible Israelis who have not received the vaccine account for 60 percent of coronavirus deaths in the past two weeks”
https://t.co/GzD1sxxhul
@OurWorldInData https://t.co/Xnqmm8ktHo
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September 24, 2021 2:00pm
- BAM
  
  So 40% of the people dying are vaccinated?
  Fuck, that’s not good.
  
  8 1
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  September 24, 2021 2:07pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    40% is only a small percentage. Watch for the spin in 3, 2, 1, or a diversion
    
    5 2
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    September 24, 2021 4:13pm
- rangitoto
  
  Sounds like they forgot to take their hydroxychloroquin or ivermectin.
  
  5 2
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  September 24, 2021 2:14pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    ‘Ivermectin’ out of stock. Horses need it, so the market has been cornered for fundraising
    
    3 3
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    September 24, 2021 4:15pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Yes that is no surprise. But it also means that 40 percent of the deaths are vaccinated.
  
  Honestly there is going to be an almighty social hangover in New Zealand when vaccinated people start dying of COVID. As you know I am pro vaccine, but the lack of awareness in new Zealand about the vaccine’s limitations is .. well immense.
  
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  September 24, 2021 2:20pm
  - cmm
    
    No need for logic in the feelzy world.
    
    When vaccinated people die it will still be the fault of the unvaccinated Untermenchen.
    
    16 3
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    September 24, 2021 2:30pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Earlier:
      The unvaccinated are not responsible for the vaccinated. That is the job of the vaccine.
      So why do the vaccinated take the vax, get Covid, and blame the unvaccinated? WTF is the point of a vaccine that is probably a placebo???? Waste of time.
      Here we go – you will not get it so severe blah blah blah. Show some PHYSICAL proof – not the fuckwit Hendy’s man made data model.
      I will wait.
      
      6 1
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      September 24, 2021 4:22pm
  - Fletch
    
    Yep, the govt are treating vaccination as the silver bullet. Once we reach 90%, we can drop the lockdowns and all emerge into fairy land. They have no other plan for elimination.
    
    5 2
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    September 24, 2021 2:33pm
    - dave_c_
      
      No doubt they already have plans for plans that blow up in their faces.
      Plans for plans for plans – When will we bite the bullet, and commence a serious pushback.
      
      3 0
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      September 24, 2021 5:11pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    But our Dear PM told us high vaccination rates was our “Golden ticket”.
    
    I presume by “Golden ticket” she is referring to the ticket Charlie won to get into Willy Wonka’s Chocolate factory.
    But remember, 4 other kiddies also got a “Golden ticket” and they came to unfortunate ends – ultimate Elimination.
    
    Somehow the “Golden ticket” odds of 1/5 don’t seem very tempting.
    
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    September 24, 2021 2:45pm
    - cmm
      
      There has been a lot of gold flying around with Gold Standard contact tracing and Golden ticket vaccines.
      
      Of course we can’t forget that we’re well on the way towards $150 – $200bn of virtual gold going up in smoke.
      
      The last, unfortunately is going to be a debt burden for a at least a generation, but more likely two.
      
      This is going to severely limit wiggle room when the next natural disaster strikes (Hint: This is NZ, we can expect something big once every 15 to 20 years or so).
      
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      September 24, 2021 3:32pm
    - dave_c_
      
      Me thinks she is rubbing our noses in it !
      What a sad, demented, authoritarian we have as the leader of this country.
      
      5 1
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      September 24, 2021 5:09pm
      - 70andstilllearning
        
        think the new term is “mentally disabled”
        
        3 1
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        September 24, 2021 5:42pm
  - Frank the tank
    
    Wait till it is endemic here like the rest of the world and 75-85% of all the population get it…..
    
    5 1
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    September 24, 2021 3:16pm
  - Stu2
    
    I cringed watching the TV news a few weeks back when some patrons at a South Auckland vaccine drivein said they were safe now.
    
    Nope
    
    Safer
    And you will be less safe as your doses age
    
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    September 24, 2021 3:16pm
- Inandout
  
  Bat, either way Israel can still kick the arse out of the Arabs, and without Biden’s help. C19 is not going to weaken that country by a jot.
  
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  September 24, 2021 2:25pm
  - cmm
    
    Every year USA gives Israel $US3bn of military aid. Approx $1 per day for each Israeli.
    
    While $3bn is $3bn, they could still afford that themselves.
    
    4 0
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    September 24, 2021 3:39pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      And USA gets a whole lot of well field-tested and debugged high tech military systems back in return. $3 billion is 0.4% of pentagon budget and cheap at the price.
      
      3 2
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      September 24, 2021 3:51pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

RW Capitalist is right. Friday…time for comedy, other than our govt. Even thought our Govt is a constant joke.
Redneck Ambulance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04YWL57p2JA
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September 24, 2021 2:16pm
rangitoto

UK having major problems with logistics due to lack of HGV drivers. Now’s your chance if you have an HGV licence.
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September 24, 2021 2:28pm
- krazykiwi
  
  It’s not just HGV. Petrol and food shortages (both related the HGV issue), inflation at highest in more than a decade about to flow through to mortgage rates, household energy bills up 14% year on year, hundreds of high-street shops closing every week.
  
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  September 24, 2021 3:54pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    How is that Brexit working out for them poor old English.
    
    1 5
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    September 24, 2021 7:02pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Redneck – defund the Police.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRvCEWMESKY
3 2
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September 24, 2021 2:31pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

One more. Top Gear – run out of Alabama. Ya don’t mess with rednecks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKcJ-0bAHB4
3 3
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September 24, 2021 2:42pm
- RichardX
  
  Steve thinks he is a wit…he’s half right
  
  3 3
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  September 24, 2021 2:46pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Probably loves the lyrics of ‘Sweet Home Alabama’, too.
    
    3 4
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    September 24, 2021 3:29pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Lack of humour on a Friday Mike? Don’t go down the pub and tell jokes, stick with your day employment
      
      3 2
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      September 24, 2021 4:00pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Don’t get grumpy coz you love everything about rednecks. Not everything from Alabama is bad – I’m sure there must be some decent bourbon, at least.
        
        1 4
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        September 24, 2021 6:02pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Thankyou, thankyou – the 3rd
    
    2 1
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    September 24, 2021 4:40pm
- Frank the tank
  
  One of their best.
  
  During lockdown watched the Grand Tour start to finish with the 12yr boy. He loved it. Explained to him that is what humor used to be be like prior to wokeborg.
  
  6 2
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  September 24, 2021 3:19pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    What comedy does your boy like that you don’t really get or find funny?
    
    3 5
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    September 24, 2021 3:55pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Don’t feed the troll Frank. He has been away for a while – must have changed hands
    
    3 3
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    September 24, 2021 4:03pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I’m now down-ticking with my other hand.
      
      1 3
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      September 24, 2021 6:03pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I guess the downtickers all want the white truck with pink letters?????
  
  2 2
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  September 24, 2021 4:01pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Drive the cheapest fuel-efficient petrol car that makes you happy, Steve. Follow all the road rules, and always stay calm. Pedestrians like me will be grateful to you.
    
    1 1
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    September 24, 2021 6:05pm
Warren

Again Labour show their arrogance towards New Zealand with Senior Ministers like Nanaia Mahuta who is not fit to be a Minister in any Government with her attitude of not willing to listen or back down from the Multimillion Dollar Three Waters Reforms dispite protesting and backlash from some Council’s.
Demonstrators stormed the Nelson Council on Thursday in protest of the reforms which will see 4 publicly- owned Entities take responsibility from 67 Councils for drinking water, wastewater and storm water infrastructure.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/local-government-minister-nanaia-mahuta-defends-three-waters-reforms-amid-backlash.html
Both Auckland and Far North Councils have concerns about the Three Waters Reforms and will not sign up to the changes along with several other Councils.
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September 24, 2021 3:31pm
- septic skeptic
  
  When National/ACT regain the treasury benches I hope they have the courage to declare an economic emergency and repeal not only everything the Ardern government has introduced but also most of what Clark/Cullen did (and Key expanded) like WFF.
  
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  September 24, 2021 4:07pm
- [email protected]
  
  I applaud the Whangarei Council for rejecting the 3 waters offer despite a large financial bribe from government. Us local taxpayers have invested heavily into our water infrastructure and to let another large government organization take over would be stupid. They cannot and would not be nearly as concerned as the locals about our water infrastructure.
  
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  September 24, 2021 6:08pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Local governments are, ultimately, creations of parliament. So that means, in our version of liberal democracy, that the politicians supported by over 50% of the people allowed to vote, and who can be bothered to vote, get to abolish, or change the rules for, local authorities as they see fit.
  Personally, I think the government should be placing major reform for health and local government on the backburner until after the 2023 election.
  
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  September 24, 2021 6:10pm
Jack5

Property giant China Evergrande Group, continues to teeter on the brink of a financial precipice. It has severe cash problems, hitting 800 projects in progress over 200 Chinese cities.

The Wall Street Journal reports that Beijing, reluctant to bail out the country’s most heavily indebted property developer, is asking local officials across the country to prepare for a “possible storm.”

Evergrande was due to pay $US83 million in interest today on a bond that matures next March, but it will get another 30 days before a failure to pay is classed as a technical default.

An Ambrose Evans-Pritchard article behind the Telegraph pay wall includes:

What nobody knows in the West– and very few know in China – is how far [President] Xi intends to go in punishing Evergrande and how far he intends to push his assault on moral hazard. Developers have $US4.7 trillion of debt and few would be considered sound under Western accounting standards. Contagion has already engulfed Vanke, Country Garden, Sunac and Kaisa, to name a few.

This year, almost $US80 billion has been wiped off the sharemarket value of Evergrande, reports the South China Morning Post. The company is being crushed by about $US350 billion of debt.

https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/3149873/china-evergrande-controlled-demolition-near-certain-default-and?
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September 24, 2021 3:43pm
RW Capitalist

https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/126479015/multimillion-dollar-investment-to-help-restore-south-island-braided-river-valleys-alpine-and-pastoral-lands
$300000 per job per year, for 4 years. I wouldn’t normally comment on the stupidity of this but….
It’s money they are borrowing, on my behalf, to pick up driftwood.
It is NOT
an investment…their are no returns and it is temporary.
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September 24, 2021 3:49pm
krazykiwi

@benedict, @cmm, @edsnack – I missed this post earlier in the week. It appears to show very little change in the rate of hospitalisation and death in Israel : Vaccines Failing Against Serious Disease, Data From Israel Suggests . The 2020 vs 2021 comparisons certainly make it look like the Pfizer therapy isn’t holding up. Interested in your thoughts.
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September 24, 2021 3:51pm
- cmm
  
  We’re dealing with an experimental technology (vs other types of vaccine). There is no way we know what the medium to long term outcomes will be. Could be good, could be not so good, could be bad.
  
  The vaccine has been around for a year now. During that time every set of new announcements has eroded the magic. A year ago everyone was expecting magic silver bullets and slowly that silver has tarnished.
  
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  September 24, 2021 5:22pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Sorry I am on my second wine.
  
  Get vaccinated.
  
  Have a nice weekend.
  
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  September 24, 2021 5:41pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Always a very good reason for withdrawing from further immediate comment BY :):)
    
    5 0
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    September 24, 2021 5:47pm
  - [email protected]
    
    Good answer!
    
    Has anyone researched the effects of alcohol on the probability of catching Covid19?
    
    I’m hoping that Covid19 is alcohol adverse.
    
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    September 24, 2021 5:57pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    You’re one wine ahead of me, Benedict. Have a good weekend too.
    
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    September 24, 2021 6:00pm
- dcrane
  
  @krazykiwi What if the vaccine mainly has its effect by reducing the chance that an infection becomes systemic enough to cause hospitalization, but doesn’t make much difference if the infection “breaks through”? That would give you little change in deaths per hospitalization.
  
  The signal should show up in the number of hospitalizations per positive test, but only if the testing pattern has been constant over time, which has not been true for many municipalities.
  
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  September 24, 2021 6:03pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

@ John Pakes.
“Steve Otto talks about anaphylaxis, which can be quite bad and can be caused by a lot of things. Mine was caused by taking Voltaren. In my mind, that is no excuse for me to cry foul of the science.”
Science my left tit. In case you missed something, ‘science’ on the latest Covid Vaccination was is NOT science. Less than 2 years is not science, it is control. Sorry for your anaphylaxis, it fucking sucks big time, weeks of recovery, wear a Medic Alert Tag?
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September 24, 2021 3:58pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  How many years after Alamogordo should Truman have waited to be sure that dropping his A-bombs would be effective and safe for all exposed to radioactive fallout?
  
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  September 24, 2021 5:51pm
dcrane

Essay by Ann Coulter, “The Real Anti-Vaxxers”

https://www.takimag.com/article/the-real-anti-vaxxers/

(The real anti-vaxxers being those who won’t acknowledge that the vaccines ought to allow us to return largely to our own free lives.)
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September 24, 2021 4:07pm
septic skeptic

BREAKING NEWS
Shaun Hendy has predicted tomorrow’s winning lottery numbers:
6435, 5894, 7621, 9966, 2467, 5308, and the bonus number 80,000
20 2
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September 24, 2021 4:33pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Must be using Planck’s Number somewhere in his model.
  
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  September 24, 2021 6:01pm
Prince

I posted four days ago that the MoH Vaccination stats, on their website, have jumped by 2 points overnight from 37% to 39%, with no extra vaccinations being recorded.
I asked the MoH for an explanation and apart from the usual ‘we’ll get back to you’ reply, I have received nothing.
These are the numbers used by Ardern etc on the ‘Podium of Politics’ updates.
Basically the jump was achieved by reducing the population number (denominator) by 120,000, thereby increasing the % fully vaxed.

MoH currently reports 41% (it is actually 39.8% based on the previous population used).
As a simple example, if I have vaxed 3 out of 12 people, I’m at 25% (3/12). But if I decide to reduce the ‘population’ from 12 to 10, I’m now at 30% (3/10), with no additional work. Excellent.

Anyway, to their credit, it appears Stuff are a little doubtful about MoH changing the population.
There is a note on the Stuff numbers used on their page, under ‘The Whole Truth’ banner.

“The share of population vaccinated figures previously relied on inaccurate population counts. They were updated on September 1 to reflect Stats NZ’s 2020 estimate of the 12 population. This differs from the database used by the Ministry of Health, which is not a total population estimate”.

Now it is possible that MoH has a solid reason for making this change and not using the Stats Dept numbers. but if so, shouldn’t there be an explanatory note on their website, and shouldn’t I have received an explanation by now ?
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September 24, 2021 4:45pm
- greybeard
  
  Send this to Mike Hosking.
  
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  September 24, 2021 7:04pm
Observer of Life

If you have access to Amazon Prime I recommend “Clarksons Farm”. Good light entertainment and Jeremy even tries to be a bit green. Off the top of my head there are 6 episodes.
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September 24, 2021 5:19pm
Cinematic

Newsflash – NZ kiwi fruit has tested positive for COVID on arrival in China. I shit you not.
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September 24, 2021 5:23pm
- [email protected]
  
  Shipped from Tauranga? Wonder how many PCR cycles the Chinese used to get a positive result. Is this sending a message to New Zealand?
  
  How are Kiwifruit shipped? If by ship shouldn’t the virus have perished?
  
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  September 24, 2021 5:33pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Reason No 3,117 not to include China in a regional trade pact.
  
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  September 24, 2021 5:53pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Are you some new MnM?
    
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    September 24, 2021 10:10pm
ABS4EVA

Australia are just finding out “some” of what

DAN THE MAN

CINDIES BUDDY OLE PAL
COMRADE

Has signed up for behind closed doors
in complete SECRET
with the CCP

And it is A….
NIGHTMARE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRTAtaRhvTQ

An Absolute Strategic and ECONOMIC

NIGHTMARE

The CCP will soon own by Proxy the Transport
Network of the CITY that was

PACIFIC HQ WW2

Now COMMUNIST HQ under Labour
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September 24, 2021 5:32pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING…

‘Chynaa rips Australia a new one at virtual G20 Meeting….. for it’s treatment of Aboriginals’

– Aljaz

Honestly, you couldn’t make this shit up.
Xieeesh!!
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September 24, 2021 5:57pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Like the Saffers used to complain about our treatment of Maori if we dared to criticise apartheid…
  
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  September 24, 2021 6:44pm
Maggie Pie

A bestie from PA tweets 😀

So, what’s it to be?
Pfizer….. OR Ivermectin

enney, meeny, miney, moe……

https://twitter.com/leslibless/status/1441279053982584832
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September 24, 2021 7:09pm
Warren

Jacinda Ardern, Grant Robertson defend Covid – 19 spend as Judith Collins rips into dodgy Creative NZ Funding decisions.
The Governments decision touse Covid- 19 cash to help the Arts Sector to recover has been criticized by National’s Judith Collins, who described the funding decisions as dodgy. But Finance Minister Grant Robertson” totally rejects” her characterization explaining that industries like the Artsned financial support to get through the pandemic.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/jacinda-ardern-grant-robertson-defend-covid-19-spend-as-judith-collins-rips-into-dodgy-creative-nz-funding-decisions.html.
This Government is rotten to the core when Grant Robertson and Jacinda Ardern authorize the use of Covid-19 funds for everything but the pandemic.
“It’s pretty hard to believe that the $710 million used for Three Waters is a COVID-19 response “, Collins said, the truth is that the Covid Fund is nothing more than a slush fund for the Governments pet projects.
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September 24, 2021 7:13pm
Maggy Wassilieff

You gotta laff, folks.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/09/coronavirus-police-at-border-checkpoints-don-t-have-to-be-tested-or-vaccinated-for-covid-19.html
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September 24, 2021 7:38pm
Maggy Wassilieff

It’s not just politicians that do Friday Afternoon/ Friday Night news dumps….

The lefty Media like to run the articles detailing our Government’s failures at the end of the working week..

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/mental-health-advocate-s-frustration-as-damning-stocktake-reveals-progress-of-government-s-1-9-billion-investment.html

Hoping that RNZ and the Opposition will have moved on to some irrelevancy by Monday morning…
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September 24, 2021 7:54pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  RNZ covered this well this evening, with claim and counter-claim from Little and Doocey.
  
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  September 24, 2021 9:11pm

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