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September 9, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 09 September 2021

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General Debate

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Ra Henare

Science can’t be trusted. Blindly follow the science as a dedicated mantra is BS.

I have been reading a lot recently about validity of Medical papers.(Could be said for many different branches of science)

We have all, I am sure, come across bunkum that has been published in reputable journals that has been proved to be garbage. Just in the last 12 months I think of items published in the Lancet, WHO and other worthy places that have ended up being proved very very wrong.

Unfortunately it is not rare.
So why do we get so excited about a new paper that shows (whatever your hot button is) and take it as the gospel truth.
Is it confirmation bias at work? Being like a treasure hunter, gee look what I found?

as an aside.

So where’s the Science behind having to wear masks in a Stationary store? Dress Shop, Bowling Alley but not in a restaurant or bar?
Or is it something MOH dreamed up as virtue signaling?.
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September 9, 2021 8:02am
- Dairy Flat
  
  My local garden centre here in Central Otago has a cafe. They require mask wearing in the garden shop and outdoor plant area but NOT in the indoor Cafe. Why? Because putative “experts” have decreed it thus. Clown show indeed.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:35am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    Im surprised the clown so called medical experts havent decreed that cafes bars restaurants only served prueed food and that customers had to wear face nappies at al times and sip their food and drinks thru a small hole. Seems taking off the face nappy to drink and eat rather defeats the whole purpose.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:42am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    Back to the basics.
    1. What is the medical treatment for Kungflu?
    2. If I have had covid do I need to be vaccinated?
    3, if I have an antibody test that shows I already have the anti bodies do I need to be vaccinated.
    
    1. Take 2 panadol if required and go home and isolate.
    2 I say no you have the required antibodies.
    3. I say no you have the required antibodies. Unlike most of the world, we have no approved antibody test, why is that?
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:05am
    - paulscott
      
      There was a large post yesterday in which Benedict Yu asserted that asymptomatic carriers could pass on the Sars- Covid virus, reference ‘The Science’ from Israel.
      There is a problem, If you are asymptomatic how do they know you are a carrier, Oh that’s right the PCR test at 40 cycles which means nothing.
      There is no such thing as an identifiable asymptomatic carrier.
      It’s just more New World bioterrorism.
      
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      September 9, 2021 11:36am
- john1234
  
  That’s the thing about the internet that drives misinformation and conspiracy theories: you can always find something that appears authoritative to support whatever side of an argument you are taking.
  Personally I am aligning with research that shows that cloth masks don’t do much to prevent COVID spread. Which makes me laugh at virtue signalling TVNZ bimbo journalists taking off their cloth masks with a flourish then crumpling the soggy thing in their hands.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:41am
  - kowtow
    
    tv3 do it too.
    
    It’s clearly very carefully scripted theatre .
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:02am
  - Fisherman
    
    John, I have actively been involved in Operating Theatres for the last 30 years. When I see these idiots taking off their masks and pocketing them I just laugh. If you want to have maximum effect you use the mask only once and then bin it. THEN wash your hands. Its an absolute farce
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:32am
    - Ehlana
      
      Fisherman, if I may ask, what actually is the rationale for masks in operating theatres? Is it to protect the people wearing the masks? Or the patient? And from what, exactly?
      
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      September 9, 2021 10:53am
      - paulscott
        
        Ehlana, He will probably say both patient and Surgeon. For me it was more important that the gloves didn’t rip apart.
        
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        September 9, 2021 11:41am
    - kowtow
      
      Farce masks……
      
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      September 9, 2021 11:24am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Your examples are not science. Science is a set of propositions that are capable of being disproved by experiment, and substantial efforts have been made to disprove them, and those efforts have not succeeded. One person publishing a study is not science. Models that claim to predict the future based on various assumptions are not science either.
  
  In the case of masks, the relevant proposition is that wearing a mask significantly reduces the likelihood of transmitting the virus. In a restaurant or bar that is still true but a policy decision has been made that, since people cannot eat or drink with a mask on, it’s better to accept the increased risk of transmission so those businesses can open. In a stationery store they can open with masks.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:42am
  - cmm
    
    There are really two kinds of “science”:
    * Data/ scientific method driven, “real science”.
    * Science as generally practiced by a bunch of activists or people otherwise motivated to put a thumb on the scales.
    
    Unfortunately the latter is often replacing the former and so science, as is increasingly encountered in the world is no longer “real science”.
    
    There are models and models. All laws of physics are models (E = 1/2 m v^2 etc) and these are highly valuable and accurate so long as they are used within certain parameters.
    
    I have a high precision GPS receiver on my roof. That uses various mathematical models and can calculate its position accurate to 2 cm or so (better with averaging). So accurate that the model has to compensate for earth tides, solar winds etc. And it does that by simultaneously tracking 50 or so satellites flying through space at about 14,000 km/h.
    
    At the other end there are some pretty sketchy models – especially those that try to model messy things like CV19 outbreaks.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:02am
    - Master Mariner
      
      “I have a high precision GPS receiver on my roof. That uses various mathematical models and can calculate its position accurate to 2 cm or so (better with averaging). So accurate that the model has to compensate for earth tides, solar winds etc. And it does that by simultaneously tracking 50 or so satellites flying through space at about 14,000 km/h.”
      
      2cm accuracy ? Thats very impressive. I’m assuming you use both GPS and Glonass ( Russian) and corrected through L2 Band ( Military) LES ( Land Earth stations ).? Chinese and European satilites?
      
      FWIW we quite often subscribe too Apex/Ultra and PPP ( Prescision Point) DGPS but with a accuracy +/- 2m but monitored all the same for accuracy which I thought was impressive.
      
      Also recently there was 2 (CME) Coruna Mass ejections which would of been alerts out as likely to highly degrade signals.
      
      CMM , Why do you need that required accuracy? And do subscribe?
      
      Science, Magnetism and indeed Compass are a “Dark” science and with previous posts outlining weakening / fastly moving North Poles which incidently do not get any mention in Climate change models, At least too me I find extremely fascinating. Still tracking to NW at an extreme rate ( Magnetic North Pole).
      
      Now thats “Real Science”, At least too me.
      
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      September 9, 2021 9:32am
      - fightingtemeraire
        
        Only thing I remember from Compass Work when doing Masters FG is p + cz= Lamda hf sin theta!!!
        
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        September 9, 2021 9:52am
      - cmm
        
        MM: I used the colloquial term GPS because that’s what most people understand. GPS is the American system only. The more correct term is GNSS. A bit like saying vacuum cleaner instead of Hoover.
        
        Yes this is a high precision RTK receiver that pretty much tracks anything that flies using L1, L2 and L5 channels. Put all the different services together and we can sometimes see 50+ satellites in NZ. A few places in the world can see 60+.
        
        I do this because I work in the satellite communications field (as well as a few other fields) and developing GNSS systems is part of what I do.
        
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        September 9, 2021 10:02am
      - Master Mariner
        
        @CMM
        Thanks for clarification and interesting for sure.
        FWIW Irridium used to be partly owned by Bin Laden Family.
        Yes GNSS covers all bases.
        
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        September 9, 2021 10:12am
  - CJames
    
    Nigel If the relevant proposition is “that wearing a mask significantly reduces the likelihood of transmitting the virus”, then that is not proven, especially not for masks other than N95. They do not significantly reduce the chance of getting Covid. If you go over to No Minister, they link to peer reviewed papers showing the masks are ineffective, so jury is still out. The really relevant data is showing infections relative to mask mandates and comparisons between states like North and South Dakota. That shows mask wearing doesn’t work.
    It is being enforced here as a form of virtue signalling or to spot the anti-vaxxers. It isn’t supported by the science.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:06am
    - CJames
      
      Here is the article
      https://nominister.wordpress.com/2021/09/09/masquerade/
      Ignore what Tom wrote. Look at the links and the graphs
      
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      September 9, 2021 9:24am
      - Tom Hunter
        
        Ignore what Tom wrote.
        
        HEY! That’s mean.
        
        But thanks for the link! 🙂
        
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        September 9, 2021 7:32pm
    - David Garrett
      
      CJ: remember at the beginning of the “Pandemic” when various “experts” were agreed that mask wearing was a waste of time. I have seen it compared to “using a chicken wire mask to stop dust”
      
      A year later, suddenly, the reverse is the case, and “mask wearing saves lives”. That clown Baker is suggesting it might become the new normal. Fuck that.
      
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      September 9, 2021 9:45am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        ” I have seen it compared to “using a chicken wire mask to stop dust”
        
        Both the science and the data say that masks are effective. Good enough for me. At least until the chicken wire guy can refute the science and show me the data is fake.
        
        https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
        
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        September 9, 2021 10:00am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Benedict, sigh, so you discount the Danish mask study, plus the two CDC studies on schools that found zero impact on mask wearing ?
        
        That article is long on talk but cites only a few studies including a worthless laboratory test. Yes, a cloth mask may, under ideal conditions in a laboratory, filter some virus. In the real world of mask wearers, not so much.
        
        And the cites of environmental impacts including places with mask and no mask mandates, there are studies for both sides (some say no impact) so I would go with the suggestion that there are other environmental aspects not considered that affect results and that the masks themselves may or may not be the key. As for the anecdotes “a man flew on an aeroplane and no one around him caught Covid”, that’s a joke, right ? The ventilation in aircraft flows from above a person, down and out under the seat, and is not recycled, so pretty low spread environment in general.
        
        I’d go with the science we have, the Danish and CDC studies and assume no impact in the real world until something a bit more “science based” and less political turns up to refute that.
        
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        September 9, 2021 10:21am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Masks do reduce droplet spread but the ‘science’ is now telling us that Covid is spread by aerosol transmission.
        Masks are ineffective against that-especially the cloth ones people wear. Just useless
        Your article is from last year too- which may explain why they focus on droplets.
        Personally I think Social Distancing is more effective.
        
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        September 9, 2021 10:22am
      - Spoff
        
        Wearing a mask fogs my glasses.
        Case closed.
        
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        September 9, 2021 10:31am
      - Cinematic
        
        Personally I think sufficient ventilation leaves masks for dead. Has any guidance been provided to industry around the importance of maximising ventilation?
        
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        September 9, 2021 10:54am
    - JJ56
      
      Just in this morning from William M. Briggs
      Statistician to the Stars! :
      “That Bangladesh Mask Study Shows AT BEST A Population Seroprevalence Reduction Of 0.0026%, And Likely Smaller: Plus Four New Studies Showing Mask Mandates Are Useless”
      https://wmbriggs.com/post/37320/
      
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      September 9, 2021 10:20am
  - Ruahine
    
    The wearing or not wearing of mask is determined mainly by politics. It is ‘Politic’ to have the cafes open in Wellington.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:41am
    - Ehlana
      
      Do our representatives need their daily coffee then?
      
      As it’s Wellington, do they keep 5m apart?
      
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      September 9, 2021 10:56am
  - Fletch
    
    And at Level 2, the restaurant patrons don’t have to wear masks but the staff do. All day….
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:44am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      The only reason they don’t have to wear masks is so that they can eat and drink, which when you break it down, is what restaurant patrons tend to do 😀
      
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      September 9, 2021 10:59am
  - paulscott
    
    Nigel, and others [8.42] If you breathe though a mask with smoke and watch even from the mirrors you will get an idea how useful a mask is at stopping a 100 nano metre virus.
    
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    September 9, 2021 11:44am
- R
  
  Science can’t be trusted.
  
  Well, there’s good science and bad science, and sometimes the line between them is blurred. That’s especially so when big money is involved. Pfizer is making billions of dollars from its Covid vaccine. Where such vast sums of money are involved, there’s the risk that the data will be fudged or manipulated.
  
  Remember it took GSK a long time to pull its swine flu vaccine, despite concerns about its safety being apparent for quite some time. Why would a vaccine manufacturer not do the right thing and withdraw an unsafe vaccine immediately? Money.
  
  Internal safety reports from 2009 – unearthed as part of a lawsuit – suggest that GSK and public health officials were aware of a variety of serious adverse events logged in relation to Pandemrix … But it would seem neither GSK nor health authorities made the information public, either during the H1N1 outbreak nor in the eight years since.
  
  https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/undoctored/british-medical-journal-was-swine-flu-vaccine-unsafe
  
  https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/news/pfizer-second-quarter-revenue/
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:44am
- G152
  
  It’s control.
  A little step along the route that they want us to take.
  Remember the frog and the pot of boiling water
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:52am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    I first read Orwells 1984 in 1964 whilst at school. I was appalled that the State could spy on its citizens and hoped I never lived in a country where that happened. At the time I have a good reference point the Eastern Block and particulary East Germany.
    
    Now I have even a better reference.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:47am
    - Tauhei Notts
      
      I got School Certificate in 1964; the year I read George Orwell’s 1984.
      I think of that book each time I deal with a jumped up bureaucrat seeking my driving licence.
      But one of those bureaucrats told me that auditors, who bear a marked resemblance to demented ferrets, will severely punish him if he does not have proof of seeing something like a driving licence.
      
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      September 9, 2021 10:08am
    - Bob
      
      I first read the book in the 1950’s, after a high school teacher told the class that it was far from a truth.
      As a result I thought that it was only a fiction story.
      At 80 I now know that it was a TRUTH.
      
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      September 9, 2021 10:13am
    - paulscott
      
      The system relies n the partner 5 eyes people reporting back to NZ. That way we are not watching you, they are.
      
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      September 9, 2021 11:47am
- westernScientest
  
  Science, as in the method for trying to falsify a hypothesis should be trusted. The problem is trusting the brand ‘Science’ (with a capital S and sometimes a little TM), and ‘Scientists’, but more generally ‘Experts’. We used to be able to rely on them to use science to test things, we cant any more.
  
  As far as the likes of peer review goes, it is completely broken and generates perverse intensives, and generates an ‘expert’ mentality within fields which limits progress.
  Editors and reviewers drive whatever they think is important, sometimes ideology, and I suspect this is happening to some extent in places like the Lancet. It is part of the slow march through the institutions. Because of how tied public funding and scientists ability to keep their job is tied to peer review, millions of papers not saying very much in very specialised fields are produced at great cost of mainly time that could be spent doing something useful. Peer review is not what it was even 30 years ago, definitely not 70 years ago, the best articles when you really need to understand fundamental concepts come from pre about 1970. Scientists used to produce one really good paper every couple of years, now they produces 5+ a year, which heaps of authors all wanting their name on it, so they can get their contract renewed. It is now just a ‘expert’ gate keeping club, being used to advance specific individuals and ideologies. In New Zealand funding is now heavily tied to Maori, to get public funding you effectively have to have a Maori ‘partner’ which is basically one of the approved Maori elites to say on the form that it is important to them, and then they have to be consulted on everything. Within institutions where scientists work now there are HR people look over everything before it is aloud out the door, from funding proposals, to article submissions, to option pieses. Imagine being at Otago med school and trying to get a study on ivermec approved, let a lone funded or published. This is a big part of why there is no debate around climate change, no one in these positions will let anyone release anything, and if they do they get fired and a big pile on so the masses will not believe anything they say.
  
  Then we have the science reporters in media, who gate keep again, most people cant access a lot of papers (its really expensive) and dont really have the base level of knowledge to understand the papers as soon as they are outside of an area they are really interested in. Science reporters jobs used to be the bridge between highly technical science subject matter and the general public, now we have the likes of the pink haired one. These people are deciding what is important for the public who are busy with their own goings on to see, now they just push their ideology, and talk down to everyone, not to help the public understand.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:09am
- Critical Thinker
  
  Lockdown to mitigate the effects of the last lockdown and prevent a future lockdown.
  
  Get vaccinated to protect the vaccinated.
  
  Wear a mask to reduce anxiety in people who have been terrified by all the mask wearing.
  https://www.dailyveracity.com/2021/07/26/over-50-scientific-studies-conclude-masks-do-nothing-to-prevent-the-spread-of-illness-so-why-do-people-keep-claiming-they-work/
  
  Clown world ?
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:17am
  - paulscott
    
    CT But if you don’t wear yours, mine won’t work.
    
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    September 9, 2021 11:49am
  - Clownworld
    
    So apt Critical Thinker, we have arrived at the end of the universe (so to speak) …where up is down and black is white, where killing some is helping others live, where protests are peaceful dependant on the trending societal mainstream mores , but rioting and insurrection if counter culture to those in power.
    
    Escape from reason. The circus madness continues. By the way contradiction is to be embraced not as hypocrisy but as rules for thee but not for me. You don’ t interpret the rules according to logic, you must simply give up and give in to the meaningless new dystopic order.
    
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    September 9, 2021 1:33pm
- I remember when
  
  Bars: :Loved the Tv items on bars opening for Level 2 at midnight in Wellington.
  Especially enlightening was the shot of the woman without a mask, seated six feet from her companions, yelling in celebration.
  Oh well, no problems there then.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:30am
- slightlyrighty
  
  When you figure out how to eat and drink with a mask on, feel free to let us know….
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:47am
  - KiWombat
    
    Blend everything into a paste, add water or beer to taste, then consume through a straw with mask still in place.
    
    Does not work very well for steak sandwiches as the meat is too fibrous !
    
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    September 9, 2021 11:17am
    - gravedodger
      
      Sorry KiWombat straws kill turtles, and turtle lives matter, off to Waiouru with you, until Cinders can do a deal with Vlad to lease some land in Siberia.
      
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      September 9, 2021 11:57am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Suppository like perhaps . . .
    
    Saves the chewing and worrying if that out of date denture glue got at the discount chemist will prove to be good value at $2.59 . . .
    
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    September 9, 2021 11:57am
- Phronesis
  
  Here is an interesting paper that partially answers your question: https://phys.org/news/2021-05-replication-crisis-true-cited.html
  
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  September 9, 2021 10:13am
- Maxx
  
  I need to disagree with the opening statement. Science can be trusted. People with an agenda cannot be trusted, and that goes for more than just science. Plenty of people here also pick and choose their data sources to support their narrative equally.
  
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  September 9, 2021 10:33am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Yesterday I walked to the door of a restaurant, put on a mask, signed in, grabbed a menu, walked to my table, took off my mask, ate, drank & chatted with colleagues, put mask on, walked to the till to pay, walked out of the restaurant & took my mask off.
  
  What a farce.
  
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  September 9, 2021 11:05am
cmm

When you assess your personal risk of anything it is very important to be careful with statistics – particularly when the underlying data is highly skewed (as it normally is for risk issues).

Statistics normally determines averages for a group. At the moment the hot topic is your risk of dying with/from CV19.

For example the average risk of CV19 death for a 60year old is something like 1 in 250 if you are infected (and let’s just assume everyone will be infected some time).

When we have threats directed at us personally, we tend to lose our scientific way of thinking and act emotionally and our fight or flight lizard brain kicks in.

“Oh, no!” thinks the 60 year old. “I’m an average 60 year old. I have a 1 in 250 chance of dying!”

Nope, not so. Let’s unpack it further.

Averages destroy information – particularly when the data is highly skewed. Very few in the group actually carry the most of the risk and the others are at very low risk.

Let’s take a very obvious analogy for illustration. Every year there are about 58,000 births in NZ so (discounting abortions and other misadventures) almost 1% of all Kiwis are pregnant at any time. So if you are a Kiwi then you have a 1% chance of being pregnant!

Of course that is not true. If you’re male, menopausal, pre-pubescent etc then your chance is zero (or as good as zero). If you’re a breeding age female, but using contraceptives then your chances are very low (say 1% – about average). The majority of pregnancies will be amongst women who are actively trying to have babies and they might have a 70% chance of being pregnant – way above average.

So clearly within any group there are sub-groups etc and averages often mean nothing.

So back to CV19: What does “1 in 250 60 year-olds will die” actually mean?

What it means is that if you take a random group of 250 60 year-olds then, on average, one of them will die. It does not mean that this risk applies to the average 60 year old.

The selection of that 1 to die amongst the 250 is in no way random, but is most likely to be one of the sickest. The sickest 50 people in the 250 will have a higher chance of being reaped (say 1 in 50) and the healthier 200 will have a much lower chance (say 1 in 2000). Even within that smaller 50, the sickest 10 will have a far higher chance (say 1 in 10), while the other 40 in the subgroup have a lower chance (say 1 in 250).

Note that the people who are quite sick, but not very sick are actually at the average. The average people are way below the average risk.

Thus:
* If you are a healthy 60 year old your chances of dying are extremely low.
* If you are an average 60 year old your chances of dying are very low.
* If you are sick (ie. preconditions), then they are about the average – say 1 in 250.
* If you are extremely sick (multiple preconditions) then they are above average.

The same goes for other groupings too – such as race, obesity and such: the mildly obese are nowhere near the same risk as the extremely obese (BMI 45+), especially since the later normally fly with a range of other complications such as heart problems and diabetes.

Now of course those are just illustrative numbers, but the main point stands: Do not look at averages for groups and think that they apply to you because you are a member of that group.
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September 9, 2021 8:08am
- Cinematic
  
  Brilliant cmm. I see fearful people all around my neighbourhood. Most of it is unnecessary as you point out. It’s unforgivable that this administration has deliberately terrified people to force compliance. Anxiety kills.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:25am
- dcrane
  
  Was thinking of this in relation to the spreading mania for mass-vaccinating all of the children. In the US, only about 370 children (up to age 17) have died of covid in the entire course of the pandemic, the equivalent of 5 or 6 in a population the size of New Zealand. Those numbers are low to begin with, and mass vaccination becomes even less sensible when you consider how the risk is concentrated in children with identifiable comorbidities.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:25am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Since 1-Jan this year just 8 children aged 0-14 have died in the UK. There are 13 million children in the age bracket. Based on what we know about mortality profile it is certain that each of these 8 had one or more conditions that made them vulnerable.
    
    In response to the supposed threat, the forced closure of schools is already impacting the emotional, psychological and educational welfare of all 13 million. Child abuse from stressed patents is skyrocketing, child welfare agencies can’t keep up.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:12am
    - cmm
      
      Of those 8 children, it would be very interesting to know how many would have died anyway.
      
      UK has approx 900 deaths in that age group per year. Many of those will be accidents, but others are not. For example about 240 are cancer deaths and 300 are due to Congenital Heart Disease.
      
      I’ll go out on a limb that almost all, if not all, those 8 had significant co-morbidities and would have died within a few months anyway.
      
      Sad, but that’s the way it is.
      
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      September 9, 2021 9:43am
    - Ed Snack
      
      And the number of children, otherwise healthy children, who died from the vaccine is ?
      
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      September 9, 2021 10:25am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Just to be clear. There is no plan to vaccinate children to save the children. It is to stop them transmitting the virus because children are highly contagious. If the vaccines can’t fix that I don’t see much point in vaccinating children.
    
    Pfizer is currently conducting clinical trials of the vaccines for children aged from 6 months old through to 11 years old. Unless the trials show that the vaccines simply do not work at all to reduce transmission, I would expect the New Zealand Government to launch a campaign to vaccinate ALL children aged 6 months and older in the second half of 2022. I would expect that some parents will be resistant to that.
    
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    September 9, 2021 1:32pm
    - dcrane
      
      For me that argument is bankrupt unless we’re talking about a massive social gain like eliminating smallpox, and we’re not. Not even slightly close to it. Vaccinate Grandma, don’t subject so many children to the risks for others. Besides, the evidence that children are a major vector is iffy – probably related to the fact that so few show symptoms to begin with.
      
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      September 9, 2021 1:42pm
    - Clownworld
      
      After 2 + years intense propaganda campaign it won’t surprise me if parents give up and let children get the latest medical miracle. By then though the P lab will market medicinal oral pills as well as continuous jabs.
      
      At same time no doubt there will be a digital identity and attempts to persuade people very kindly to trust the government with all your information. Perhaps a digital tattoo you can’t see on your hand or forehead. Will be a game changer no need for seperate passport – global freedom, global currency what’s not to like?
      
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      September 9, 2021 2:31pm
- Sacha
  
  That’s very sensible advice! I had a similar discussion with a daughter (late 50’s) who has impaired renal function/hypertension, who was very frightened by her GP. My explanation was not nearly as well phrased, but I got the message through, I hope.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:36am
  - surfing
    
    Are you saying that impaired renal/hypertension are not covid risk factors?
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:12am
    - cmm
      
      I don’t think she said that at all.
      
      I think that a lot of people get misled by the stats and think the 1 in 250 applies to an average person, so they think that with a risk factor they are way, way higher.
      
      It just is not so. However it is easy for a person with higher risk thinking that death is almost certain.
      
      The 1 in 250 (or whatever the average is for the group) is for a relatively sick person. The average person is way, way lower.
      
      Someone with a mild risk factor (eg. myself with a previous case of atrial fibrilation) is certainly more at risk than the average person, but is still way below the average risk for the group.
      
      For example, using the numbers above as a reference scale, I would rate myself somewhere around 1 in 1000 while a healthy 60 year old might be 1 in 2500.
      
      Again, these numbers are for illustration only.
      
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      September 9, 2021 9:52am
  - cmm
    
    Hi Sacha
    Sorry to hear of your daughter’s condition.
    
    As much as we think we can be “Team of 5 million” and face it all together, that is not true. When it comes to health outcomes we are not all in this together. We cannot tax a healthy person and give some of that health to a sick person like we can with money. I can’t go work out in the gym for someone else. I can’t stop eating for a fat person.
    
    We each have to face our individual health profiles/risks ourselves no matter whether it is “fair” or not.
    
    I don’t know your daughter’s details but no matter the cards she has been dealt (or has dealt herself though past misadventure) she can maximise her position by working with what she has: no smoking, losing weight if need be, reducing alcohol etc. She may already be doing so.
    
    Fear itself is no help unless it can motivate change.
    
    I wish her well.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:16am
    - Master Mariner
      
      “We have nothing to Fear but Fear itself” is a quote that immediately springs to mind.
      Not sure who, Winston Churchill ? Appropriate all the same.
      
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      September 9, 2021 9:36am
      - fightingtemeraire
        
        FDR
        
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        September 9, 2021 9:53am
      - Scott
        
        FDR
        
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        September 9, 2021 9:55am
      - curry4me
        
        Master Mariner: FDR at his innaugauration.
        
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        September 9, 2021 10:05am
    - surfing
      
      So, should the daughter take the vaccine?
      
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      September 9, 2021 9:37am
      - cmm
        
        Are you asking me?
        
        There is no way I am going to give any specific person medical advice for their specific case.
        
        I think they should make their own decision based on their own circumstances and their own risk assessment and risk appetite. It also comes down to peace of mind which is often very important for some people.
        
        I am not a medic. I have no significant medical training (first aid courses don’t count do they?). I do have some statistical training (2 years of stats at uni) which gives me some insights into statistics that are not available to most people – and puts my statistical training ahead of most researchers who typically have a year or less.
        
        The purpose of the above is to help put the numbers and risk into context – especially that average risk is different to risk to the average.
        
        I hope that for some people that will help quell irrational fear. When we are fearful we think poorly. Having a better understanding helps people make better decisions.
        
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        September 9, 2021 10:13am
    - Sacha
      
      Thankyou cmm 🙂 My middle-aged daughter manages her ‘condition’ very well. She leads a full and active life and apart from getting blood tests every few months and managing her diet, one would never know that she has a cloud hanging over her health.
      But she was concerned about the covid – whether she should get vaccinated – and consulted the GP (in one of those health clinic places that has severe GPs, and apparently one can be seen by any one of them), who frightened the bejesus out of her, telling her she would die if she became infected, with the result she rang me very nearly in tears. In the end she did get vaccinated, and suffered no ill effects.
      But there is no need for anyone to be so distressed – especially from a so-called health professional GP.
      
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      September 9, 2021 7:26pm
- dannz
  
  The problem with this is that we don’t really know enough about the risk factors to be able to accurately calculate individual risk. It can be hard to tell if you are one of the sick ones or not, as the vast majority of people have some sort of pre-existing health condition. If you are 60+ with high blood pressure where does that put you?
  
  There also seems to be a degree of random selection of who gets seriously sick, whether this is due to past coronavirus exposure or other factors?
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:40am
  - cmm
    
    We don’t really need to calculate individual risk accurately. Does it really make a difference if you have a 1 in 275 chance or a 1 in 283 chance?
    
    What does help is being able to see the broad brush risks so that you know whether to take something seriously or not. Is it 1 in 20 or is it 1 in 2000?
    
    At the end of the day, assessing risk is pointless unless you’re prepared to make changes to compensate.
    
    We also know enough about risk factors that people can often take steps to avoid risk:
    * If you’re very obese then it is important to lose weight. Going from very obese to just mildy obese is a huge help.
    * If you’re mildly obese then it is way less important to lose weight, but it will help a bit, but is far less critical.
    * Stop smoking (or at least reduce). Naah, bullshit, stop!
    * Exercise
    * Vit D
    * etc.
    
    If you have high BP that is often a symptom of something else (eg. obesity, smoking, lack of exercise, alcohol etc) and often lifestyle changes can help.
    
    I am not a medic and I don’t know your details so don’t take any of this as specific advise.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:29am
    - Taieri
      
      We don’t really need to calculate individual risk accurately.
      ————-
      
      We can’t CALCULATE individual risk anyway. A commonly used definition of risk combines the frequency (or probability) of occurrence of an event and severity of its consequences. While it is relatively easy to make assumptions (regardless of how accurate) with regard to frequency of infections in a given population, it is virtually impossible to estimate the severity of consequences since the range of the latter is immeasurably broad. Hence, the widespread adoption of precautionary measures, which, instead of being based on an actual risk, are based on the “better be safe than sorry” principle. But then, the question arises: what is scientific about all that?
      
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      September 9, 2021 10:27am
- john1234
  
  Great work cmm.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:43am
- John Pakes
  
  Nothing new here, I think that we all understand that if we take measures, like staying healthy, then we will improve our chances of not being the very real 1 in 250.
  So, get vaccinated all, it may just stop you from being that 1.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:54am
  - amospicton
    
    So why on earth has there not been widespread advice to lose weight and stop smoking? Both cost nothing and improve the odds considerably. I’d love to know why that message was not part of those interminable covid-19 announcements. While we’re at it why didn’t we increase the number of ICU beds and show some urgency with the vaccines? Oh yeah, clown show running the country.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:03am
    - Ruahine
      
      It is because Arderns voter base would be offended.
      
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      September 9, 2021 9:45am
      - amospicton
        
        That’s what I figured Ruahine but isn’t that pathetic? Popularilty over lives.
        
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        September 9, 2021 10:08am
    - Littletramp
      
      Why not the advice about health precautions, treatments etc?
      Simple, because the vaccine companies have told Govts that if they promote that openly they won’t get any vaccines delivered.
      Our Govt learnt that lesson and applied it to the media here – any anti govt “stuff” published (pun intended) and you don’t share in the media cash handouts.
      It’s called leverage and its insidious during a health pandemic but such is the way of the world today.
      
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      September 9, 2021 10:37am
    - cmm
      
      Reducing obesity stopping smoking etc would help many people in so many ways.
      
      Sure, it would help keep you out of the arms of CV19, but that’s really a tiny risk compared to all the other ways it will help.
      
      For example, 1800 Kiwis die each year from lung cancer. The vast majority (90% or so) are smokers. That’s a way bigger risk for smokers than CV19 is.
      
      Another 3200 or so die each year from obesity related issues. That’s a way bigger risk for fatties than CV19.
      
      And both those issues are huge contributors to CV19 too.
      
      Yet there are people who will dutifully wear their mask and have a vax “to keep safe”, but will happy have a smoke or an extra pie.
      
      This fixation on CV19 is penny wise, but pound foolish.
      
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      September 9, 2021 10:42am
      - Bob
        
        penny wise, but pound foolish…..
        BUT! it is extremely politically expedient.
        
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        September 9, 2021 11:44am
      - paulscott
        
        You surely are aware cmm that changes to smoking, eating, alcohol consumption and exercise require massive psychological and spiritual commitment. A Notice in a Doctor’s room saying ” I advise my patients not to smoke’ is counter productive and self serving.
        
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        September 9, 2021 12:08pm
      - cmm
        
        Paulscott: Yes, being the son of an alcoholic, I am aware of that, but it can be done.
        
        People who are doing what Cindy says to save themselves, yet are ignoring the elephant in the room are deluding themselves as to where their risks lie.
        
        It is of no surprise to me that Maori are over represented in smoker statistics. All the victim culture that robs them of agency makes them less likely to succeed at giving up smoking/boozing/whatever too – as well as all the other low performance stats (less likely to persist at school etc).
        
        Agency is a muscle – the more you win and take control of your life, the easier it becomes. Likewise the more you give up and make excuses, the easier that becomes.
        
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        September 9, 2021 1:55pm
    - John Pakes
      
      If you have not heard the message that stopping smoking and loosing weight, a message that has been put out for decades, then I suggest a trip to an Audiologist.
      Those who have chosen to listen need no further reminders.
      
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      September 9, 2021 10:55am
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        But certain people are being told (too often these days) the answer is ending white supremacy / decolonisation / pakeha health systems repurposed for Maori / prioritisation Maori for jabs or surgeries etc.
        There are not the same messages of accountability to the Maori and Pacifica people saying YOUR health is YOUR responsibility.
        
        The tedious mantra is:
        A: Maori and Pacifica are more and risk.
        B: The Health system is racist, and failing Maori and Pacifica.
        
        It is NOT the evil shade of Captain Cook putting three 2.25Litres of Coke into their shopping trolley.
        
        Heart Disease, Diabetes, etc, such as we are told we need to lament and are somehow responsible to fix, needs to be pointed out as an entirely self-inflicted crisis.
        
        So- the Covid lady saying “obesity is a risk factor for Covid – here is information on what to and what not to eat {link} is not too much to ask, nor is pointing out who is worse afflicted, if we are pulling out all the stops on this pandemic and looking at a management strategy across years.
        
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        September 9, 2021 12:43pm
    - Ehlana
      
      Good question amospicton. It’s been known for a long time now that healthier people are less susceptible to severe responses to Covid-19. So the sensible thing to do last year would have been to work with the most vulnerable communities on improving their health.
      Of course, to actually reach those people you would need to work with churches, employers, maraes and other independent civil organisations. Not something this government is ideologically set up to do.
      
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      September 9, 2021 11:12am
  - kowtow
    
    You could just as easily be “that one” who karks from the side effects of the vax .
    
    N’est pas ?
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:04am
  - CJames
    
    I agree with you John, but don’t see the vaccine as a panacea, which was how it was originally promoted. And realise that not only are we all mortal, but sooner or later, it will be endemic along with a lot of other illnesses.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:09am
- Bob
  
  cmm…
  there is probably a little too much depth in your article for the average sheeple of NZ. They are influenced by the TRUTHS from the 1 pm podium of truth broadcasts.
  Good article by you though.
  
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  September 9, 2021 10:10am
  - cmm
    
    Thanks.
    I like to think the average KBer is a bit advanced from the average Kiwi.
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:43am
    - paulscott
      
      utterly dreadful and typical of a progressive liberal virtue signaller
      
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      September 9, 2021 12:11pm
- Phronesis
  
  The average New Zealander has less than 2 legs.
  
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  September 9, 2021 10:11am
- bennerg
  
  Brilliant logic, and analysis of how statistics on the face of it do not tell the truth.
  
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  September 9, 2021 11:42am
- Kiwi Dave
  
  Great post, cmm.
  
  Unfortunately, averages are mathematically more useable in probability and distribution calculations than medians and quartiles, so they tend to be (ab)used more and hide ‘lumpiness’ in social data.
  
  One of the implications of your post is that lockdowns, which adversely affect everyone, might be less effective at reducing total deaths than selectively reducing co-morbidities where we can, and/or isolating those with them.
  
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  September 9, 2021 12:13pm
Nukuleka

Stuff breathlessly reports that Canterbury Law professor Annick Masselot is shocked beyond belief that a group of elderly Christchurch folk who have been forced to remain cooped up in their homes for weeks -yes in the South Island which hasn’t had a case of Covid for over 12 months -head to a local café for a coffee and slice of social contact. ‘It was like a rave party for the over 70’s… Jacinda would be weeping.’

Jesus wept. This woman and her dreary ilk needs to get a life.
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September 9, 2021 8:12am
- Gravelroad
  
  @Nukuleka-
  I gather this event occurred at a posh eatery in Merivale and those in attendance would probably be old, white, privileged people with a few bob in the bank – and conservative voters.
  This would have been socially and culturally unacceptable to the academic elite law professor.
  If the caf had been in Sydenham or somewhere “working class” , all would have been fine.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:55am
  - 7kiwi11
    
    If it were in South Auckland we’d be told that’s understandable because it’s part of their culture to to have social gatherings and you’re racist for having a problem with that.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:25am
  - Ruahine
    
    Probably Annick went to the cafe only to find that all the tables were taken by these damn old people who should have been at home living in fear of their lives.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:49am
- kowtow
  
  stuff also running another anti Collins cartoon.
  
  No doubt the 9 th floor consider our money well spent.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:00am
  - curry4me
    
    kowtow: Wow, things must be going badly. Is the internal polling taking a downward trend? Is a CB poll coming out soon?
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:08am
- Observer of Life
  
  Nuke: Exactly. And if Masselot didn’t like what she saw, then just turn and walk away. But mainly butt out and get yourself a life woman!!!!
  Or maybe she wants in with the “Ardern Academia Club”, so thought she best get the media to put her name up in lights?
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:26am
- tf78
  
  Nukuleka, it’s been incredibly tough on the older people being so isolated for so long, they are losing the will to live. If you’re elderly you should be enjoying your twilight years, covid or no covid there aren’t many left anyway – let them go for it and die happy with their friends.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:43am
Yvette

“3 Waters”
There’s a hole in the bucket, dear Jacinda Kate Laurell,
There’s a hole in the bucket, dear Jacinda, a hole.

Iwi boycott of alternative water group is followed by demand for talks by Ngai Tahu.
Fallout from the Government’s decision to set up an alternative Maori group with which to consult on freshwater issues continues, with Ngai Tahu now demanding direct engagement immediately with the Crown over water issues relating to most of the South Island.

And it is throwing into question what “partnership” means in terms of the Crown’s engagement with Maori.

The former Government consulted closely with an iwi leaders group within the Iwi Chairs Forum on issues relating to Maori rights and interests in freshwater.

But the Coalition Government wants to set up a new wider group to represent Maori interests, Kahui Wai Maori.

… And Ngai Tahu, one of the most influential iwi with a rohe covering about 80 per cent of the South Island, now says it will be seeking direct engagement with the Crown.

… Te Runanga of Ngai Tahu chair Lisa Tumahai said: “We are seeking direct engagement regarding freshwater and want to begin a discussion immediately.”

… And Ngai Tahu, one of the most influential iwi with a rohe covering about 80 per cent of the South Island, now says it will be seeking direct engagement with the Crown.
It has also hinted that court action is an option.

She said Ngai Tahu’s deed of settlement required that Ngai Tahu and the Crown negotiate in good faith before any court action. [1]

Will this be settled before all 67 Mayors are to sign up to “3 Waters” by September 30?

With a September 30 deadline looming, the heat is going on councils around New Zealand to decide whether to sign up to the Government’s Three Waters reforms. – stuff

And from Western Bay of Plenty District Council – Boundaries will be confirmed in September 2021, following further discussion with councils and iwi. The change will not come into place until 2024 and councils will continue to manage three waters until then.
… “We will await to see what the Minister’s next steps are for the proposed water reforms,” says Mayor Garry.
“We understand the reforms are looking at beginning on 1 July 2024 but this is a long way out and a lot of water needs to pass under the bridge before then. [2]

… including an Election “needs to pass under the bridge before then”. Good!

[1] https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/iwi-boycott-of-alternative-water-group-is-followed-by-demand-for-talks-by-ngai-tahu/6ZT2MZ2D7VTAFJ5GRXAARZR26U/
[2] https://www.westernbay.govt.nz/council/news-and-updates/news?item=id:2ekykwu0x1cxbyn8bha0
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September 9, 2021 8:14am
- RockyJ
  
  That Herald article is dated 2018. How does that apply now? I understand there have been 60 consultation meetings with Maori, none with anyone else.
  I wonder why no Maori have blown the whistle on these meetings. The media were excluded.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:47am
  - Clyde
    
    Because maori are getting what they want. Mahuta will be mandating the changes and maori get to control water and have a chance to clip the ticket.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:21am
  - Yvette
    
    Correction to my “3 Waters” comment just above
    
    RockyJ – Thank you very much for observing that the 2018 date does render the article probably now irrelevant, and thank you for the additional information regarding 60 maori meetings.
    
    I regret though, particularly to the 26 people who have up-ticked the comment, that my oversight means my remark using this Herald article is likely now not helpful. and is inappropriate.
    
    Explanation – When a Newsroom article appeared earlier this morning under the headline “Fallout over critical Māori Council letter” the link to the actual item did not work, so I Googled the headline for other possible sources, and the Herald article “Iwi boycott of alternative water group is followed by demand …” was one presented in the list.
    I admit quite freely that, most regrettably, I missed the (near illegible) time stamp on it: 16 Aug, 2018 07:42 PM.
    
    My second apology within a week – merde! – so profoundly sorry
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:34am
    - oldfella
      
      Yvette: an honest mistake, with a quick correction. Top marks for integrity.
      If only our politicians were cut from the same cloth, and didn’t always rush to bury their mistakes under a pile of BS.
      
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      September 9, 2021 11:56am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Your posts are always a good informative well considered read.
      
      If the government apologised for every piece of misinformation, lies by omission, made up facts and graphs, incompetence, outright lies and bold faced lies, the one o’clock presser would run for 24 hours . . .
      
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      September 9, 2021 12:07pm
- redeye
  
  The cartoon ad for 3 waters is costing 3.5 million. That’s 3 and a half ICU beds for a year. Just sayin.
  
  The justification for this change is that 130 billion needs to be spent on water infrastructure in the next 30 years. And that local councils can not be trusted to do this.
  Councillors voting for this joke should ask themselves. If they too believe they can’t be trusted to manage the water assets, why should voters then believe they can be trusted to look after the remaining assets?
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:06am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    I understand at least two thirds of Councils are opposed to Three Waters. I hope thay stick to their guns. It is just another asset grab for Maori to pay WhiteMFers back for the supposed and percieved actions of their ancestorys.
    
    I vile vicious act by a vile vicious pack of Bastards.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:54am
    - Paulus
      
      Like Council Maori wards and seats Mahuta will tell all the Councils what they will do re Three Waters. But, after Ngai Tahu have the South Island to themselves controlling the national supply of electricity.
      
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      September 9, 2021 10:38am
  - Nickc2
    
    That’s why Grant Robertson has just printed off an extra $41Bn. Add that to the existing $51Bn of printed-off money and you can see how financially further into debt this Govt has driven us.
    Clearly, they haven’t got a fucking clue about successfully managing an economy.
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:06am
  - Yvette
    
    Redeye, there argument seems to involve a $65 million, or 35%, “margin of error” (if you look at it that way) –
    A ream of studies released today in the government’s drive to overhaul New Zealand’s decrepit and sometimes dangerous water systems, forecast $120 billion to $185 billion in extra investment would be needed by 2051.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/443888/new-zealand-water-infrastructure-spend-could-reach-185b-by-2051-studies
    
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    September 16, 2021 9:54am
- tf78
  
  Yvette, speaking of such things, if the so called Treaty is a partnership aren’t the remaining New Zealanders also partners who should also be equally heard under the law? Just a thought.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:50am
KevO'Brien

No punches withheld. What really is going on?
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2021/09/07/the-powerful-case-against-covid-mrna-vaccine/
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September 9, 2021 8:16am
- Critical Thinker
  
  History Repeats
  
  In 1987, the US NIH/Fauci refused to adopt the repurposed drug Bactrim despite front line docs advocacy in the AIDS epidemic. Thousands of patients died unnecessarily until the evidence of efficacy won out.
  https://www.huffpost.com/entry/whitewashing-aids-history_b_4762295
  
  History now repeats with ivermectin & COVID.
  
  One major difference that cannot be overstated: in the COVID pandemic, as of today, there are over 60 controlled trials with ivermectin showing either decreased mortality or other major benefits, and decades of safety data.
  https://c19ivermectin.com/
  
  Australian Senator Malcolm Roberts On Ivermectin Suppression: ‘They Have Blood On Their Hands’
  https://rumble.com/vm4rva-australian-senator-malcolm-roberts-on-ivermectin-suppression-they-have-bloo.html
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:26am
- Ra Henare
  
  Yawn, another antivax rant.
  When will people get their heads around that counting cases is a fools errand. A political gambit to scare the population perhaps?
  All it means is that someone tested positive for Covid.
  Not how bad they are or how long any symptoms/ effects lasted.
  If You are going to count anything.
  Count deaths FROM or if you cant handle that. Try counting Hospitalizations.
  
  Gibraltar!! Forget the blip in cases. Moved from 93 deaths pre vax (March) to 96 deaths today.
  As I say. Another antivax rant from your man. Preying on the gullible.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:27am
  - Surely Knott
    
    Agree Ra. It’s about the Death stats. Ozzie has current mortality statistics.
    
    The graph shows their largest single covid outbreak corresponded with a small increase in deaths that was still below the 2015-2019 average. But at the end of the year when deaths were higher than average there was no covid cases.
    
    “Cumulative doctor-certified deaths due to influenza and pneumonia in 2021 were 23 per cent lower compared with the 2015-19 average, while doctor-certified deaths due to dementia in 2021 were 20 per cent higher compared with the 2015-19 average (Chart 4).”
    
    Cancer and dementia were up in 2020 and 2021. Heart disease strangely was down in 2020/2021. Is that because people were healthier or because a heart attack death who was then found to be covid postive was marked as covid.
    
    Deaths overall in both 2020-2021 were lower than the 2015-2019 average.
    
    https://population.gov.au/docs/econote_provisional_mortality_statistics_march_2021.pdf
    
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    September 9, 2021 12:09pm
- surfing
  
  So, you will not be taking the vaccine then.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:36am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  What is going on you have MRNA jabs that are clearly not fit for purpose. Governments around the world are now hanging their hats on Novovax for 2022, 10 million ordered for NZ and 51 Million for Australia. It appears that Moderna will hold its record in place, 9 attempts at a successful vaccine, and all failures, that really does inspire confidence. we are going to jab children with it.
  I think holding off and observing is the best medical decision I have made in my life.
  Every time the adverse numbers hit my computer from the USA and EU I don’t see any light at the end of the tunnel.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:38am
Doc

Where has Cactus Kate’s blog gone today?

https://asianinvasion2019.blogspot.com/
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September 9, 2021 8:18am
- Frank the tank
  
  The woke stasi obviously got to her.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:34am
- Simon
  
  Censorship likely. Think blogspot.com is run by google. The people really worth reading have all be banned at some point.
  
  Hope she comes back as an anon account somewhere. Anon accounts also tend to where all the best information is.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:35am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Maybe, like me, she’s thinking of retiring for a while until the picture becomes clearer.
  
  The strangest time imaginable. I almost have sympathy for our global “useful idiot” PM. Will the UN break through with the November Climate change terror?
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:38am
  - jacob
    
    Our PM is not a complete idiot – she said so:
    
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/coronavirus-jacinda-ardern-says-she-s-not-a-complete-idiot-amid-confusion-over-alert-level-2-mask-rules.html
    
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    September 9, 2021 1:56pm
- Dairy Flat
  
  Dunno, but I read it an hour ago. Didn’t seem more controversial than usual.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:43am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Not there at 12:50 today.
    
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    September 9, 2021 12:50pm
- JibberJabber
  
  Wow, was just on there before 6 this morning.
  Her last post,
  
  BNZ Goes Woke – But….But….. Let Us Make Them Go Broke
  
  Posted: 07 Sep 2021 09:35 PM PDT
  
  I have been alerted to possibly the most ridiculous job title I have heard of at least in one week.
  
  Head of Maori Colleague Strategy.
  
  I just cannot compute. This is just a token appointment for a token job that should not exist. There are no Maori colleagues to have a strategy with!
  
  Cool.
  
  I meet ALL of those criteria in one second. You want a Union rep for Maori. I will give you one. I am sick of the nauseous corporate woke bullshit that seems now to have extended to BANKING.
  
  Hello. Facepalm.
  
  BNZ I am calling you out.
  
  Here is the BNZ Board.
  
  You have Mai Chen (who is ……..) on a Board but you have NO Maori on the Board.
  
  Where is the brown face?
  
  Where is the brown face?
  
  No brown face.
  
  Meet the BNZ Executive Board.
  
  Aint NO brown face there.
  
  No brown face.
  
  But BNZ have the absolute front to have a Head of Maori Colleague Strategy?
  
  They have NO Maori in their entire company publicly?
  
  Go woke.
  
  Go broke.
  
  Pander to Maori interests? Well the politically opposite who think this behaviour of culturally woke bullshit jobs is a disgrace, we will join with Maori and actually call you out on it.
  
  Stop being dicks and go back to your core business.
  
  You take my money, pay me a pittance.
  
  You give it to others to buy housing in New Zealand they can not really afford and the Reserve Bank wink winks and nods nods because the Government want housing prices to increase to make everyone feel wealthier and vote for them. Valuers who you are in co-hoots with keep giving shit mental valuations that you again use to lend more to people who cannot really afford it.
  
  Yes the fix is in it is ballocks.
  
  None of this is capitalism. It is neo-socialism.
  
  Not gonna end well.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:54am
  - JibberJabber
    
    It was the last one that arrived in my inbox I should have said, didn’t see anything newer when I was on there this morn ?
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:39am
- kowtow
  
  Her link on the sidebar of this site has disappeared , and it had been there earlier today.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:57am
Critical Thinker

Novavax

Yesterday westernScientest and others enquired about the Novavax vaccine that our government is planning to rollout later this year. Here’s some info that I’ve come across so far:
mRNA vaccines like the Pfizer one function by instructing the body’s cells to build the spiky proteins that dot the outside of the coronavirus. The immune system learns from the exposure of these spiky proteins to recognize the real thing.

(Which IMHO seems rather dangerous. As this could be why many people are getting blood clots. As often the cells that end up building these spiky proteins are in the body’s capillaries and vital organs. Which is why there’s a relatively high chance of cytotoxicity, heart damage, brain damage, ovary damage, miscarriage, etc.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3dz_J3UXYs
https://www.bitchute.com/video/FuXrpTIUudnl/

Novavax on the other hand uses recombinant protein technology to create their coronavirus vaccine via moth cells. The Novavax vaccine is given as two doses and consists of the spike protein, generated inside these moth cells that grow in giant bioreactors beforehand, and they cannot replicate once injected.

These Novavax protein-based vaccines have been used for over 20 years now, including one for hepatitis B. They’re actually proven technology, unlike these new experimental mRNA vaccines. And Novavax also seems to be more effective against the Covid variants. But just as the mRNA vaccines we won’t have a clear idea of the long term safety and efficacy for at least another year or two.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T2mZWjS5xg

Novavax Covid-19 vaccine booster: safety and manufacturing questions remain
https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/features/novavax-covid-19-vaccine-booster/

Novavax platform technology demonstration video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTMA2YPvUmk

Novavax in some more detail:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/09/coronavirus-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-novavax-vaccine.html
https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2021/04/14/what-is-novavax–australia-s-third-covid-vaccine-option–.html
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September 9, 2021 8:19am
- virtualmark
  
  Not quite.
  
  Novavax is a new company that has no approved vaccines so far. Some clever technology, and it’s likely their vaccines will be great products. But so far unproven, particularly in terms of their ability to manufacture and distribute in huge volumes.
  
  Don’t let the science lead you to underestimate the importance of logistics.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:46am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Doesn’t Novavax have a Pertussis vaccine in distribution and use ? That was certainly claimed in an earlier release I saw.
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:35am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Can’t edit the above so there’s an answer in the links posted above. There’s an extant pertussis (whooping cough) vaccine that uses the same technology and delivery mechanism, but it is not made by Novavax.
    
    Which is helpful as we then already have some answers on the safety of the delivery mechanism itself if not on the Covid vaccine specifically. And the spike protein does seem to be attached to something to mimic the way it would be presented by the virus which would get around the CD147 receptor issue as the virus itself (with the S protein exposed on its outside) does not bind to CD147 so the binding site on the S protein is probably on the part that is inside the virus normally.
    
    Note to self, read links.
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:47am
- kevn
  
  @CT… Similar process to Valneva. 100 mil ordered for the UK.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:00am
- westernScientest
  
  Thanks, on paper it does look like a better option to me personally, if only taking one. It will be interesting (and I hope NZ is not the trial) to see what happens with a course of 2x Pfizer, followed by NovaVax. Because that is what is being proposed currently here.
  
  It was interesting to see this article come up this morning too, https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/126322689/covid19-novavax-booster-shot-decision-surprises-experts
  
  Im not sure why those people think they would be privy to that decision before everyone else, but kind of besides the point. Is this the slow worm turning, or is it the start of smearing NovaVax
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:24am
- Durden
  
  Ms NZ vaccine expert “Pertoussis”-Harris (cough! hack!) has got her knickers in a twist. After helping write propaganda helpful to Jacinda, she is annoyed that any decision dare be taken without her knowing 🙂
  
  “Usually approval is granted by Medsafe first before a purchase comes. Is the horse leading the cart?” she said. “This is complete news to me. I am a bit irked that I know nothing.”
  
  She conveniently ignores the practical fact that waiting for Medsafe approval before ordering (unlike USA ) is what delayed our Pfizer vaccine delivery programme and caused the current very expensive lockdown.
  
  A good reason why experts should remain quiet in the background and not politicise themselves. They have no real skin in the game.
  
  Anyway I wonder what she now thinks of the Trans vaccine Comirnaty—-proven to be now a short-term prophylactic that demanded it be called a “vaccine” and fired blanks/could not deliver.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/126322689/covid19-novavax-booster-shot-decision-surprises-experts
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:53am
- Ed Snack
  
  The Novavax vaccine though, does contain the S protein itself; and it is that specific free floating protein that is potentially the problem as it latches onto the CD147 receptor which is expressed on cells in minor blood vessels in the heart and surrounding tissue.
  
  Not sure if the direct use of this S protein by itself is free of risk for heart inflammation issues, but possibly the way they derive the protein means it is sufficiently different not to elicit that inflammatory response.
  
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  September 9, 2021 10:34am
RW Capitalist

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html

Oh Dear

only one in positive territory.
No ‘Approve’ above 50%
and
only 3 ‘disapprove’ below 50%
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September 9, 2021 8:19am
- Frank the tank
  
  The old coot is gone. He was the only candidate the Dems had that was saleable to independents and swinger voters. At this rate the mid terms are going to be a blood bath.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:36am
  - Frank the tank
    
    I mean swinging votes
    
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    September 9, 2021 8:37am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Then again……
      
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      September 9, 2021 9:39am
  - kowtow
    
    It didn’t matter who the Dems put up .
    
    The Shadow Campaign which ensured mass postal voting meant any donkey with a blue rosette would win .
    
    But they didn’t get a donkey , they got a gelding.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:10am
    - oldfella
      
      kowtow, that’s a terrible thing to say about Horizontal Harris. 😉
      
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      September 9, 2021 12:05pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  and most US polling companies heavily bias towards Democrats by oversampling their voters (with various justifications)
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:58am
- jon
  
  I note too. That a recent RCP poll had Trump on 47% to Biden 46% for 2024 election. Imagine Trump will have increased that lead by now.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:08am
  - Ed Snack
    
    And that one (if it was the one I saw) over samples by 14% – and that’s what they admit to.
    
    Biden’s real approval level is probably around 30% and is composed of those hard core Democrat voters who would support Biden under any circumstances, even if he was pronounced dead.
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:50am
Frank the tank

So as feared Grunter is getting the Zimbabwe money printing presses out of RBNZ’s basement and we are potentially going to add 40-odd BILLION to our debt levels.

Worst Finance Minister ever.
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September 9, 2021 8:20am
- Simon
  
  Labo issues the debt and the RBNZ buys it by printing. Have National opposed Labo printing another $40 billion? They didnt for the first $50 billion. Not a word.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:38am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Here’s what Michael Woodhouse said in the final paragraph of his speech yesterday:
    
    In this debate, and in the Estimates debate that we’ve had since Budget day, we have actually drilled into some very, very interesting spending decisions. I think about Vote Health, where it’s been made very clear by this Government that nearly half a billion dollars to restructure the health sector in the middle of a pandemic is the number one priority. I think we’ve highlighted the fact that that is a folly, but we’ve only been able to do it because we saw what the Government’s intentions were. Far too much of the spending that we are being asked to scrutinise has not been included in the Estimates of Appropriations. That’s wrong. Maybe it could be legally right, but in these very, very unusual times, a higher level of transparency should be expected of a Government that is spending a huge amount of money—most of it appropriately. A really, really big part of it does not appear to me to be COVID-related, and they’re using COVID as a cover, a cover for spending on things that would not have passed muster had Treasury been able to look at those spending projections and give an assessment of value for money. That’s what Treasury told the Finance and Expenditure Committee after the Budget, that they are concerned about the value for money analysis because decisions are being made so fast. But as I was talking about to the Minister of Justice, there are some appropriations out of that COVID fund that have been in the pipeline for seven years. It’s hardly urgent. It’s disappointing, it lacks transparency, and it leaves a legacy for our children and grandchildren that will be very, very hard to bear. This is not a good Budget.
    
    The debate on the Budget and the Imprest Supply Bill will continue this afternoon. When it comes to the vote, it will pass, because Labour has an outright majority in the House. National will oppose it, as they should, but it will count for nothing because of the weight of numbers.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:54am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Woodhouse has been talking about this for a week. The latest is st the end of yesterday’s Stuff article.
    
    ‘“I knew it would be higher than in a normal year – that would be appropriate. But this is a massive slush fund,” he said.
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:02am
- RW Capitalist
  
  He makes, “The cupboard is bare” look like sound economic advice.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:49am
- westernScientest
  
  In theory, he cant force the RBNZ to buy it, and in practice even if the reserve bank says they wont buy it publicly it will have the same effect, interest rates up. Robo can still borrow the money without the RBNZ buying it, but it will have to be done in the open market, which will push interest rates up.
  I was very pleased with Orr stopping the LSAP programme a couple months ago, I really didn’t think he had it in him. It is entirely possible, the RBNZ will refuse to restart it, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:29am
  - Paulus
    
    Of course he can’t force the RBNZ to print – but he can tell them to do it.
    It is Labour Party Committee run now not an independent Reserve Bank that was.
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:42am
Yabster

posted last night but worth posting again- share this link with friends and family- only way to stop this is for kiwis to be aware:

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/podcasts/the-leighton-smith-podcast/leighton-smith-podcast-episode-127-september-9th-2021/
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September 9, 2021 8:20am
- DeepBlue
  
  Stop what? Please describe more about the contents before we go to a link.
  
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  September 9, 2021 10:05am
  - Yabster
    
    3waters, He Pua Pua etc…
    
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    September 9, 2021 1:14pm
- Yabster
  
  @ Tony Stuart have National come out and said they will repeal 3 waters, maori wards, maori health boards, the new history, etc- if not why not? What is the Nationals parties view on the Treaty and so called partnership?
  
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  September 9, 2021 10:11am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Yes, they have. Collins did a series of speeches to regional conference in May, and National’s conference in August, and the message was consistent throughout.
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:26am
    - oldfella
      
      Tony, repealing specific proposals is one thing, but what’s National’s attitude to the Treaty?
      
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      September 9, 2021 12:08pm
  - Nickc2
    
    I’ll second that!!!
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:53am
KevO'Brien

Is Ardern spending too much time in the nursery or filleting fish?

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/09/mosque-refugee-stabbed-7-people-new-zealand-daniel-greenfield/

Scissors being banned.
When is Muslim, Muslim?
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September 9, 2021 8:20am
- cmm
  
  I see Countdown have stopped selling sharp knives and scissors.
  
  I wonder whether Toyota will stop selling cars next time there’s a crash?
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:25am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Will Bunnings stop selling axes and craft knife/box cutters?
    
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    September 9, 2021 8:31am
    - Frank the tank
      
      Don’t make jokes like that – they usually come true in (little) Aotearoa.
      
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      September 9, 2021 8:37am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Genuine question. I want to know how woke Bunnings are
        
        13 2
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        September 9, 2021 9:38am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Oh lookie, a downticker already. KB must have a muslim extremist
      
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      September 9, 2021 8:39am
      - MCos
        
        You must have too much time on your hands if a single downtick gets you fired up, Steve?
        
        Level 4 fever.
        
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        September 9, 2021 8:53am
      - Nickc2
        
        I think it’s the ghost of Stephie B. On second thought, it may be the illegitimate offspring of Stephie and Batman.
        
        12 2
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        September 9, 2021 9:07am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        MCos, satire is not your forte, is it?
        
        9 5
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        September 9, 2021 9:40am
      - Ed Snack
        
        To be fair Steve, without the /s tag it was a bit hard to be sure.
        
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        September 9, 2021 10:53am
    - graham
      
      Surely it would be nigh on impossible for Bunnings to stop selling items that can be used to inflict injury on people.
      
      If you’re thinking of trying to stop people from being stabbed, you would have to do away with all the screwdrivers, as an example.
      
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      September 9, 2021 9:43am
      - MCos
        
        And chainsaws
        
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        September 9, 2021 12:53pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Timber is dangerous too.
        
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        September 9, 2021 4:33pm
- MCos
  
  Chap needs to employ another researcher
  “A Mosque Refugee Stabbed 7 People. New Zealand is Banning Scissors”
  He also contends NZ has banned most guns as a result of the mosque murders and that Ahamed Aathil Mohamed Samsudeen‘s name has been censored.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:48am
- Yvette
  
  KevO’Brien’s link is to an article highly critical of Ardern –
  some one definitely sees through the fairy dust
  
  After an ISIS terrorist went on a stabbing spree in a New Zealand shopping mall, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced that the attack had nothing to do with Islam.
  … “What happened today was despicable. It was hateful, it was wrong. It was carried out by an individual, not a faith, not a culture, not an ethnicity, but an individual person,” Ardern insisted.
  Jacinda Ardern was under the impression that the ‘I’ in ISIS stands for ‘Individual’, not ‘Islamic’.
  The individual of no particular faith, Ahamed Aathil Mohamed Samsudeen, had been living in a mosque before heading to an Auckland shopping mall, shouting, “Allahu Akbar”, and stabbing seven people. One of those people is a 77-year-old man. Another is a 29-year-old woman.
  Mohamed, a Sri Lankan student named after the prophet of Islam, who received refugee status in New Zealand, spent much of his time in the country plotting to kill Kiwis for Allah.
  
  … While Ardern was taking her victory lap over her mosque shooting response, her system failed to stop Mohamed. No matter how much Mohamed indulged in terror plots and praise for ISIS, despite the fact that he was a refugee who clearly hated his new country, no one could stop him.
  
  … Instead of censoring a terror plotter’s name, it ought to broadcast it around the world.
  And it ought to toss out once and for all the familiar excuses (Mohamed’s family is predictably blaming mental illness) and treat Jihadist beliefs seriously rather than as a reaction to a failure to integrate, financial problems, mental instability, marijuana use, or any other pretexts.
  Mohamed believed in killing non-Muslims. He retained that belief for 5 years after repeated police investigations, arrests, and raids, until he finally died trying to kill non-Muslims for Allah.
  Instead of repeating the same old lies, e.g. “an individual, not a faith, not a culture”, we ought to recognize that Mohamed, like his Taliban counterparts, was a serious and committed member of a religious community who was willing to dedicate his life to the triumph of his beliefs.
  
  … New Zealand and the rest of the world deserve an Auckland Call to Action that sweeps away Ardern’s nonsensical myths, and deals with the hard reality of the Jihad against civilization. [1]
  
  At very least the event and all contributing factors need a fully independent inquiry
  
  [1] https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/09/mosque-refugee-stabbed-7-people-new-zealand-daniel-greenfield/ Who We Are : The David Horowitz Freedom Center 1– Identify the enemy; 2 – Devise ways to defeat him … For 27 years, since its founding in 1988, the Center has been warning that the political left has declared war on America and its constitutional system, and is willing to collaborate with America’s enemies abroad and criminals at home to bring America down
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:59am
  - Nickc2
    
    TKS Yvette. A great post IMO. It’s a pity someone won’t read it to Cindy. There’s too many big words for her to read it for herself.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:55am
    - Bob
      
      too many big words…..
      also it is far too long for Adern to understand and comprehend; needs to be in short sound bits of five words.
      
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      September 9, 2021 11:50am
  - paulscott
    
    The pretentious and pretend security analyst Paul Buchanan at ‘Kiwipolitico’ is on record as saying that all Islamic terror attacks are individual lone wolves and have no relationship to the religion of peace.
    
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    September 9, 2021 12:47pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      They like to get together sometimes, then they call themselves ISIS, or Jehadists or Taliban…
      
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      September 9, 2021 4:37pm
- 7kiwi11
  
  The poignant sentence from this article that sums up how angry I feel about this attack.
  
  “The mall stabbing spree was the least surprising and most telegraphed terror attack ever.”
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:44am
artemisia

And following on from cmm’s post on statistics, this on Newshub today –

The latest data from CoreLogic’s Housing Affordability report, published every six months, reveals New Zealand’s average property value is nearly eight times higher than the average annual household income

Good on Corelogic for comparing value with houshold income rather than wages (though median is a better measure). But with numbers like that or worse in their face every day the takeaway for many will be – no way will we ever afford to buy.

But statistics are one thing but even households with average incomes have options. How about lower expectations and save up for a lower than average / median priced home. Plenty of those out there. Or increase household income – second jobs, upskill, move to a cheaper location, flatmates, stay in the parents’ basement a bit longer, extend the timehorizon by a year or two, eschew the ‘smashed avo’.

Point being statistics like Corelogic’s, while useful and interesting are not the only factors, but we seldom hear anything else in the media.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2021/09/housing-affordability-worsens-with-little-sign-of-easing-new-report.html
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September 9, 2021 8:21am
- NoFax
  
  Or leave New Zealand – that’s the option I recommend to any young person now. There is no future for you.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:17am
- Opie
  
  Housing is not more unaffordable today.
  
  My first house cost 170k (mortgage) and the repayments were $400 a week.
  
  Same house just sold for 600k. So less deposit, the mortgage would be approx 480k, which will currently cost somewhere in the early $400s per week to service.
  
  So servicing costs have increased by only 10% but incomes have increased by 2.5 times over the same period according to an article I read last night. When I bought it I had a decent job that paid $38k a year. Same job now pays over $60k. Go figure.
  
  What is difficult is getting a deposit north of 100k takes hard work and discipline. Work hard, up skill, use the free money from kiwisaver and eat at home (mostly). You never hear stories about people that do that struggling to get it together. This is what I was taught to do and it hasn’t changed.
  
  The other issue is supply. The above house was a 2 bedroom one of two. 60 square meters. Perfect starter. There simply isnt enough of these to get people on the ladder and expectations are way too high.
  
  This was in Wellington but friends just acheived it in Auckland as well.
  
  You aren’t going to be able to buy a nice house on the minimum wage, but when have you ever been able to?
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:54am
  - artemisia
    
    Yep, there is an article in North & South about how impossible it is for first home buyers these days. Many opinions from the usual sectors but where were the success stories from even a few of the thousands of first home buyers the bank lends to every single month?
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:06am
  - NoFax
    
    I am sure your experience must be normative for everyone. I guess Corelogic is wrong in their analysis. Phew, for a minute I thought we had a real issue in NZ but since your friends did to it must be no problem at all. Cindy, Robo, and Orr will be relived.
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:08am
    - Opie
      
      Which part of the equation dont you understand?
      
      If I can acheive it so can anyone. At the time I was earning less than the average wage and my now wife was studying.
      
      Your make your own fate NoFax.
      
      Everyone in this country has the same opportunities, some of us take them, others like you complain.
      
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      September 9, 2021 1:58pm
  - MCos
    
    We bought a bought in 1984.
    Couldn’t even get a mortgage and those people who could paid about 14%, as I recall.
    We scratched around and raised the money from folks in the family plus the real estate agent, which is a real no no even though we paid her back a couple of months later.
    That house sold two years later at a increased price of 65%.
    
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    September 9, 2021 1:09pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      two years later at a increased price of 65%
      
      At which time – if you had been starting out – you would no doubt not been able to afford it ….
      
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      September 9, 2021 2:24pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s one indication of a excessive money supply. Coming to a supermarket near you.
  What is the conventional punishment for incompetent Finance Minsisters? Borrow and spend does not justify their existence.
  
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  September 9, 2021 4:41pm
dcrane

“Top vaccine experts have been blindsided by confirmation Novavax has firmed as the favourite to be used in next year’s mass Covid-19 booster programme with no strong evidence confirming New Zealanders will need a third vaccine dose.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/126322689/covid19-novavax-booster-shot-decision-surprises-experts

Novovax is appealing as a vaccine option since it’s not a new-tech mRNA vaccine (though I haven’t yet seen its safety data). Hopefully the government intends to offer it to those of us who are interested in vaccination but would prefer not to roll the dice on Pfizer or Moderna.
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September 9, 2021 8:21am
- Sacha
  
  Anyone would think that Novovax was a starter in the Grand national.
  I wonder if it will be sound enough to start?
  What are the odds?
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:43am
  - Ed Snack
    
    And will it fall at the final hurdle ?
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:56am
- virtualmark
  
  That opening sentence seems like a journo’s attempt to incite sensationalism and drama rather than reporting and analysing the news.
  
  Why would Fran Priddy be owed a heads-up on what the Government plans for Novavax and boosters? Why was she “blindsided” to hear about use of a vaccine we contracted for in October last year and announced in December?
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:51am
- Opie
  
  Sounds too much like novapay…
  
  Although there is more chance of me taking that than the saline shot
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:58am
godruelf

I heard James Shaw is enhancing his carbon footprint jetting off to Glasgow next month.A couple of thoughts:
1/. Is he taking a risk leaving the country at this stage. Will his position be safe while he is away.
2/.The Govt is talking about a trial self isolation scheme on return to NZ. Will he be front of the queue in this trial?
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September 9, 2021 8:26am
- Yvette
  
  godruelf – The Govt is talking about a trial self isolation scheme on return to NZ
  
  Whatever could go wrong with that?
  If you believe “Nothing”, then ‘I have a bridge to sell to you’
  – yes, I know, that is a most crusty, obvious and slothful Internet cliché – but this bridge is especially for cyclists and pedestrians.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:35am
  - oldfella
    
    Yvette, will the new cycle bridge have better footings than the current one?
    BTW, never did see much comment about that story from a week or so back. Is the Ak Harbour Bridge still safe for traffic? And for how much longer?
    
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    September 9, 2021 12:14pm
- KiWombat
  
  The UK has a rolling average of over 38,000 new Covid cases EVERY DAY. There are nearly .5 Million active cases in Scotland alone, over 7 Million in all UK.
  
  I would suggest that the Womens Rugby Team stuck in Western Australia, and probably thousands of others as well, should be processed back into New Zealand well ahead of Mr Shaw, particularly as he is choosing to visit such a hotbed of the virus entirely of his own volition.
  
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  September 9, 2021 11:52am
Greg Ettridge

Be interesting to see what happens with the ICC and Afghanistan.
The Taliban have now decreed women cannot play sport.
NZ is due to play Afghans mens team early December, will be interesting to see the governments reaction to this
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September 9, 2021 8:27am
- Gravelroad
  
  “They are us” and all that – except if you are a Sheila and want to play football.
  There will be some weasel words come forth from our great prophet Jacinda, to explain this away.
  Same as with the Sri Lankan terrorist.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:38am
  - jon
    
    SILENCE too from the Greens, the Muslim Women League NZ and women groups generally in NZ re the protests in Afghansitan of which women are at the forefront concerned about their rights under the Taliban. Shame on these groups in NZ and the left generally for showing little concern.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:27am
- hullkiwi
  
  Let’s see how quickly the government will use the mantra that “playing Afghanistan is a matter for the NZCC, and it is not a government decision.” That is sport and politics don’t mix.
  
  A lovely reversal of the position we have seen on our screens recently, with the 40th anniversary of the 1981 Springbok tour protests being remembered. These reminiscences have of course been celebrating those who opposed the tour on political grounds. Which back then included the Labour Party opposition.
  
  So, Greg it will be interesting to see how Jacinda will dance on the head of that “pin”, if she is ever asked that question.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:52am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Minto et al are still around. Hopefully they’ve still got some protest signs in the pool room.
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:22am
JibberJabber

Like a stopped clock The Twitter is not always wrong,

We deserve what we get. We wanted slogans. We wanted spin. We didn’t get kiwibuild. We didn’t solve climate crisis. We didn’t fix infrastructure. But we have our priorities right – instead of employing doctors we employed more spin doctors.
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September 9, 2021 8:27am
- All_on_Red
  
  ‘instead of employing doctors we employed more spin doctors’
  
  Thats the making of a good slogan for a Billboard or Meme
  
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  September 9, 2021 11:22am
Thought Criminal

A story about the bribing of the New Zealand media. In overseas media of course.

https://spectator.com.au/2021/09/the-bribing-of-the-new-zealand-media/?fbclid=IwAR33gAH6vxPLSRiIQO6I2OdKYQ39b9dOTeX43zZT4HCdcnwGPFJrf7i6LeQ
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September 9, 2021 8:32am
- Scott
  
  Thanks for posting the article Thought Criminal. Essentially it shows us that the labour government is giving millions of dollars to media outlets to promote diversity in hiring and to promote their favoured left-wing causes. My understanding is that publications like stuff would basically go out of business if it were not for government funding?
  
  What it does explain is that when the Prime Minister ascends to the pulpit of truth and then deigns to answer questions, why she never gets any searching questions? On the basis of one case she plunges us all into level 4 lockdown. Not a single sceptical question from the media. The only question is, shouldn’t the lockdown be longer Prime Minister??
  
  Meanwhile under cover of Covid, the government is instituting a far left agenda involving abortion until birth, euthanasia, Maori co-governance including tribal ownership of water resources and a separate health system for Maori people. Also people will not be able to see a pastor about their homosexual attractions and they can change their birth certificate to reflect their new gender preferences.
  These changes go through with virtually no pushback from the media.
  
  The people of New Zealand are given this message by our media overlords. This government is doing a great job, the Prime Minister is a wonderful person, all these changes should not concern you and we shall not report upon them. The main message is be kind, wear a mask, stay home and wait for your next instruction from our wonderful Prime Minister.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:47am
  - Yvette
    
    Scott
    How much of the ~~media bribe~~ funding is administered through NZ ON AIR?
    “We support public media content for audiences on many different platforms. Over $80m a year is available across five funding rounds.” – NZ On Air
    
    Journalism funding
    In February 2021, the Minister for Broadcasting and Media , Kris Faafoi announced a $55 million package to support public interest journalism. The funding is to be administered by NZ On Air.
    https://www.nzonair.govt.nz/funding/
    
    NZ On Air is administering the Public Interest Journalism Fund. … The $55 million Public Interest Journalism Fund will support New Zealand’s media to continue to produce stories that keep New Zealanders informed and engaged and support a healthy democracy.
    https://mch.govt.nz/media-sector-support/journalism-fund
    
    “… a healthy democracy”? – when, as someone else has put it, “the fourth estate becomes the fifth column“?
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:25am
  - tf78
    
    Scott, does abortion until birth sound like outright murder to you too?
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:48am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Perhaps we should accede and let them have NZ the way they want it–they will soon return it.
    Maori are still tribal so they will scramble for superiority and old enmities refreshed. Production will be superfluous except for KFC and Maccas.
    
    Housing can be accommodated from flax , twigs and mud. The houses of the Pakeha who have left will be up for grabs so that problem’s solved.
    Most doctors will leave too as there is plenty of employment available elsewhere and old surgical practices can be revived.
    
    Govt? Cinders will not be needed so she can be put on a raft to Auckland Island.
    
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    September 9, 2021 5:01pm
- westernScientest
  
  haha the comments are great, I especially like this one:
  
  anybody who has actually read Stuff, and could categorise it as ‘highly factual’ must be so dim witted they are unaware that it gets dark at night time.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:38am
  - tf78
    
    ws, they ‘make’ the news not report it.
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:55am
plc

Tedious…..another anti-National/Collins cartoon on stuff

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/114832273/jim-hubbard-cartoons

I’m glad they have given up any semblance of non-partisanship
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September 9, 2021 8:33am
- Inandout
  
  plc, sold for a dollar, says it all.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:57am
- RW Capitalist
  
  and the truth would be
  Ardern and the NZ economy
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:43am
- JibberJabber
  
  ?
  
  Jim Hubbard is renowned for his bold cartoons.
  
  ?
  and shite artwork by the looks of things…if that’s the best he can do, he proves the adage the “left can’t Meme”.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:51am
R

A lawyer who doesn’t mince his words about Kris Faafoi.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/126178724/do-ardern-and-faafoi-understand-how-courts-work
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September 9, 2021 8:35am
- Master Mariner
  
  Yeah Read that, One thing that really sticks out and I was’nt aware of was “Intention”.
  What was Parliaments Intent on passing Laws etc.
  
  Really word soup explanation from PM and Minister of Justice, How the hell do you formulate “Intent” by conflicting replies trying to explain it.
  
  Good article.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:48am
  - paulscott
    
    What was her intent when she could not or did not explain that she hated all opposition, Nationalists, sovereign individuals and partisans .
    
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    September 9, 2021 1:10pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Once we had senior lawyers as Attorney’s General or Ministers of Justice. I forget who they all were, except Martyn Findlay, but across all governments most were memorable for their knowledge, scholarship, wisdom and sense of justice. Any govt that approached the boundaries would be hauled back.
  
  Our amateur govt is unfit to administer a kindy sand pit. David Parker has legal qualifications but moonlights as Environment Minister!
  
  Now Judith Collins, that leader has qualifications. Those were recognised by her former position as President of the Auckland Law Society. She would be aware of the Acts Interpretation Act and the significance of every word in a Bill before the House.
  
  Parliament does not emote law, it creates it by an orderly process. Judges hate having to try to figure what any Act says. Those making law need firm guidance as to the meaning of what they are proposing before they enshrine it.
  (I have known tax law drafted to pass under the noses of MP’s as it was intended to confer a preferential rate of tax on a group relative to another. Even Depts can play tricks on Ministers who cannot read Bills. )
  
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  September 9, 2021 5:29pm
cmm

If nothing else, in his 45 years (or whatever) in politics, Joe Biden has learned a few tricks.

How to get out of the less-than-limelight for a bit? Open up the 9/11 files!

This will keep the media and commentators busy unpacking what went on 20 years ago and give Biden and crew some breathing space.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/us-secret-service-releases-never-before-seen-photos-of-september-11-2001-terror-attack/2V7MD5BB357COLRCT6FZQPHELY/
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September 9, 2021 8:35am
- Gravelroad
  
  Would he even remember what happened on 9/11?
  Wasn’t it just a Hollywood movie anyway?
  Didn’t Trump do it?
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:43am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Hollywood movie. That is what I thought on the day, walking out the door. Only when I got to work I found the truth.
    Biden will remember sfa. Kids under 20 will not know and will not have been taught about this
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:01am
- virtualmark
  
  cmm, as a general rule I endorse any President or Prime Minister releasing information to the public. Governments are far too attached to secrecy. To be fair to Biden he’s had several initiatives where he’s pushed for info to be released. Small steps but wrong to criticise them.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:53am
- Inandout
  
  On the JFK assassination files, well even Trump couldn’t get them out of permanent lock down. Of all theories that need the light shone on it, this is one. 9/11 I will leave to those who are fixated in that area.
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:55am
  - paulscott
    
    The light is clear and bold on 911, it’s just that it is refused and denied.
    
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    September 9, 2021 1:13pm
- Master Mariner
  
  My understanding it had a 20 year time frame and was too be released regardless who was President ?
  
  How much and in what detail is still the real question.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:50am
I remember when

What a strange world.
People not getting vaccinated because of false information.
Great effort to correct the ‘non facts.’
Election time…..
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September 9, 2021 8:36am
WaveyDavey

Hey

Can anyone get to Cactus Kate’s blog or is it just me?

Seems to have been wiped
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September 9, 2021 8:38am
- JibberJabber
  
  It’s gone…
  Looks like Google may have liquidated it.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:01am
- Muttonbird
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Wouldn’t be a bad thing, tbf.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:21am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Of course, reality is Kryptonite to lefty losers, best you should just stay safe in ur mums basement reading the Strandard and Labour Party adverts.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:46am
  - graham
    
    Yeah, this whole free speech thing and people being able to express opinions that are different to yours can be so tiresome, hmm Muttonbird?
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:46am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Yes, you’d be all in favour of anyone who challenges the status quo being cancelled wouldn’t you Muttonbird.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:56am
  - Yabster
    
    censorship? you marxist zealot…
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:17am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    The Left really are today’s book-burners aren’t they?
    
    Do a search for brownshirts and book bonfires – that’s you now
    
    https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/book-burning
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:17am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Inside every Progressive is a Totalitarian screaming to get out
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:42am
- kevn
  
  @Wavey… Yes, looks to be taken out. Dysoned away.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:23am
RockyJ

The Guardian reports that young people are flocking to new careers in climate activism. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/06/gen-z-climate-change-careers-jobs
This affirms my opinion that catastrophic human caused climate change is the new religion. It has all the ingredients
•it is based on belief rather than facts
•the “truth” is hidden in obscure language that high priests, climate scientists, have to interpret for us
• the angry climate gods demand huge sacrifices from us mortals, (but not from the priests, you may notice).
•there is the threat of imminent apocalypse if we do not recant
•finally, and how cool is this, it even has a children’s crusade lead by Greta the grumpy who will lead our youngest and most vulnerable to destruction.
Those young who waste their best years studying a topic with no useful application will eventually make excellent cafe waiters. A road I almost once went down myself.
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September 9, 2021 8:39am
- westernScientest
  
  I am glad they dont want cars, at this rate their wont be any engineers to design and build them…
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:41am
- Gravelroad
  
  @RockyJ
  
  The University of Waikato is proudly launching a new three-year degree in 2022 – the Bachelor of Climate Change.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:42am
  - oldfella
    
    Gravel, I think the Uni should allow students to earn a Bachelorette of Climate Change. Or a Non-Binary of Climate Change. Gotta be inclusive, dontcha know?
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:49am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Shit I hope it does’nt take 30 years to complete.
    
    It will do to find out if your Lecturers were correct though.
    Climate equates + 30 years from present.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:53am
  - RockyJ
    
    No doubt it has a large component of Maori climate science. But no calculus or physics, phew.
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:26am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Are they all going to learn Fortran 77?
    Who authorises such waste of resource courses?
    
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    September 9, 2021 5:33pm
- coge
  
  Unprecedented!
  
  Eventually a schism will occur, where they begin to devour each other. As in what happened to the Auckland kids climate strikers. Indeed it did raise the obvious. This fervent belief in a coming climate apocalypse is overwhelmingly a preserve of the young white middle class. And perrenial older activists. It makes their protests appear cringe worthy and dated. They lack relevance with the social activism of 2021. Climate change is a social issue, not one of scientific rigor.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:50am
  - curry4me
    
    coge: Up until the 1930s, circuses had freak shows. They were in abeyance for a long time. Now, they’ve been revived by the ever lovin, ever lyin baby killers at demos.
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:25am
Simon

Taliban cabinet not very diverse. But still more diverse than the Greens.
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September 9, 2021 8:40am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

What happened to all of the passengers on NZ7005?
Where did they go?
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September 9, 2021 8:41am
I remember when

Dileepa Fonseka: Skyrocketing house prices should not be part of the post-lockdown recovery, but what does this mean. Stuff:
Dileepa seems to have a better depth of research than most and seems neutral.
Introduces some interesting material.
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September 9, 2021 8:44am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

We have been conditioned to think that only politicians can solve our problems. But at some point, maybe we will wakeup and realise that it was the politicians who created our problems – Ben Carson.
Jaspinda, we are on to your nonsense
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September 9, 2021 8:46am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Exactly
  Covid
  It was NOT the disease that caused these problems.
  It was their RESPONSE to the disease.
  People did not fall sick and be UNABLE to go to work.
  The Govt. passed a law banning them from going to work.
  Using Covid as an excuse.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:50am
kowtow

Shaw flying to UK for Cop 26 .
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September 9, 2021 8:48am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Three cheers for James Shaw; hyp, hyp, hypocrisy!
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:56am
  - plc
    
    It’s alright to exit the Cave if it’s really really important.
    
    Obviously having problems with his Zoom
    
    “Animals shall not drink alcohol….to excess”
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:31am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Hopefully he will have a three month lock down both ways.
    
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    September 9, 2021 5:36pm
- 7kiwi11
  
  He should follow the lead of the Greta and sail over….. oh wait a minute, scrap that as we’re paying his wages.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:35am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    We’re paying his salary regardless of how he travels, so maybe a long sea journey would be a good idea!
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:42am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Yep, Maybe get the new Maori scientific Navigators to take him on there new Ocean going Wakas.
      
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      September 9, 2021 9:56am
      - Taieri
        
        Are you implying that it should also be a one-way trip?
        
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        September 9, 2021 10:45am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        There is a Southern tourist route.
        
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        September 9, 2021 5:37pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Greta is full of it. She and family sailed to New York to make it all look good. Then they flew in a crew to return the boat to Europe.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:55am
    - sooty
      
      Then flew home them selves!
      
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      September 9, 2021 12:50pm
Inandout

To those patients in cancer wards who in some cases are dying would probably give anything to have a covid assurance of about 95% survival rates.
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September 9, 2021 8:49am
Tony Stuart

From the “One law for thee, and one law for me” department; nice one Souixsie!

https://thebfd.co.nz/2021/09/09/new-zealander-of-the-year-siouxsie-wiles-unmasked/
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September 9, 2021 8:51am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Pink makes you immune to infection //
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:06am
- plc
  
  “Animals shall not sleep in beds…..with sheets”
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:26am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Siouxie has made pink hair extremely popular for a certain type of liberated womin. Are they sure it’s really her? 😉
  
  And the locations – Freeman’s Bay, Judge’s Bay – the absolute epitome of Chardonnay socialism…
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:57am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    It’s her, all right. With a journalist from The Spinoff.
    
    22 0
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    September 9, 2021 10:01am
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      Heh, the photographer might be a traitor to their social class 😉
      
      Or maybe Siouxie’s evolving celebrity status is leading to an evolving sense of self awareness…
      
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      September 9, 2021 10:33am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        celebrity status ?
        If that was a dressed up pig that could be a celebrity, red-headed pigs were very rare. I never saw on all my time as a dairy farm hand.
        
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        September 9, 2021 5:45pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  I’ve been so impressed with how the MS Media have been all over this bfd social media post with their outrage, and call’s that she should offer to return her NZOTY award. Much in the same manner in which they treat Collins and Seymour SM posts they perceive as being hypocritical.
  
  Google Search:”siouxsie wiles in news” (Past 24 Hrs criteria)
  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-09/antibiotic-resistance-bacteria-fungi-promising-microbial/100444540
  
  RNZ – Anaylsis – While we’re all rightly focused on the…https://www.facebook.com › RadioNewZealand › posts (can’t access not being FB)
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/451047/new-zealand-s-unique-fungi-provide-promise-in-search-for-new-antibiotics
  
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  September 9, 2021 3:37pm
KevO'Brien

What’s your Covid variant?
https://100percentfedup.com/say-what-covid-positive-patients-are-told-type-of-variant-theyre-infected-with-cannot-be-legally-disclosed/

This protocol will surely apply here too. There is no disclosure of what is actually being compared. Ripe for enforced population measures.
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September 9, 2021 8:54am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  If you were to be told what variant you have, then the politicians and health liars could not fuck with the numbers. Keep the public scared
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:33am
Maggy Wassilieff

While we are all isolated here for the next few years, one of our beloved MPs will brave the dangers of the wicked outside world and ~~have a wee jaunt in Glesga~~ stride out onto the Climate Change Stage.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-james-shaw-to-attend-climate-talks-in-glasgow/RAVXIN7P7KH77ORUGIP6KNVR74/
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September 9, 2021 8:55am
- westernScientest
  
  With all the working from home going on, and the whole cars and farmers are evil climate change causes, you would think they could set up a zoom meeting, even if its just for the virtue signal. Come on Jimmy, at least try and hide the hypocrisy a little bit.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:45am
- Ruawai
  
  Lets hope he can’t get an MIQ spot on the way home.
  
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  September 9, 2021 10:09am
  - oldfella
    
    Shaw will just talk to the MP from Tijuana and learn how to ‘rort’ our MIQ system.
    
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    September 9, 2021 12:21pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Maybe Glasgow is a nice place to drink a few craft beers and go for a weekend afternoon walk…
  
  9 0
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  September 9, 2021 10:37am
- KevO'Brien
  
  They need a brain that size to kick around.
  
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  September 9, 2021 12:54pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

Massive mail in voter fraud revealed in Arizona, the election was truly stolen: https://www.scribd.com/document/523907885/Maricopa-County-Canvassing-Result#download&from_embed
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September 9, 2021 9:00am
- doggone7
  
  Liz Harris, the person behind this hundreds of thousands of fraudulent votes story lost in an election in November.
  
  She is called the “mastermind behind the “Voter Integrity Project,” an ongoing canvassing effort that began in December and set out to prove Trump won the 2020 election. One strategy was to go door to door checking on people.
  
  “Using a mobile app that provides names, addresses and publicly available voting information of registered voters, volunteers set out to ask voters questions such as, “Can you verify the voters registered to this address?” and “Did you vote by mail or in person?”
  
  Maybe she’s like Rudi Giuliani’s blonde friend Melissa Carone who was a star turn in Michigan.
  
  https://twitter.com/MollyJongFast/status/1334318185772961796?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1334318185772961796|twgr^|twcon^s1_c10&ref_url=https://heavy.com/news/melissa-carone/
  
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  September 9, 2021 10:49am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    So we have:
    1/hundreds of missing invented voters as well as missing mail in ballots identified in this limited canvassing effort in arizona.
    
    2/ Mail in vote fraud operative network that has been uncovered by “true the vote” organization – tracking several hundred fraudsters who travelled around Georgia and Arizona stuffing mail in ballots into 10-50 drop boxes apiece (tracked via trillions of publicly available cell phone ping data records) and cross referenced with video surveillance data of the drop boxes to identify individuals and some of the rental cars they used
    
    3/ An affidavit from a retired policeman turned security guard who worked at an Arizona venue where he witnessed large numbers of ballots being processed without connection to any legal election organisation.
    
    That’s Multiple threads of hard evidence of large scale coordinated mail in vote fraud employed to steal the election for Biden.
    
    Are the DNC via their effective ownership of media and ability to stonewall state auditing efforts as well as stop FBI and DOJ investigations going to be able to continue to suppress this as they have done to date?
    
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    September 9, 2021 12:00pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      So here we have a broad-based conspiracy, but for some reason none of the conspirators have been outed and no court seems willing to be involved in prosecution of the conspiracy. One of the reason being that the MSM are also part of the same conspiracy, but again noone specific has been outed.
      
      Bizarre. Go figure.
      
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      September 9, 2021 12:08pm
G152

9/11 is coming up and those who committed that mass murder are the same as the London , Australian and New Zealand knife attackers.
Never forget and never forgive
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September 9, 2021 9:01am
gorse

Yet another Judith Collins bashing cartoon in Stuff again. Scott and Stuff haven’t figured out that by drawing and publishing this rubbish constantly they are seriously becoming a joke among us right wingers. More and more people are noticing it, in my discussions. I believe they are now shooting themselves in the foot, showing the masses what silly narrow minded people they are.
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September 9, 2021 9:01am
- Ruawai
  
  Media are shown as the umpire but they would be better represented as the one fighting Judith.
  
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  September 9, 2021 10:02am
hullkiwi

First World problem, in Level 4 locked down Auckland.

4.56pm last evening. A power line is brought down in the Kaipara Flats area.

So…..no power in greater Mahurangi /Warkworth district for over 3 hours last night.

Dinner time, can’t cook anything, can’t go for a takeaway or a meal out…..

Thanks Jacinda, for nothing!

PS. Because we are deemed rural, our power must be out for 4hours (urban Auckland is 2 hours) before we can claim compensation from Vector.

….First World problems…..
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September 9, 2021 9:06am
oldfella

A new day, a new anti-Judith cartoon in stuffed. Ho, hum…
https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/114832273/jim-hubbard-cartoons
Just noticed that plc beat me to this. Guess Labour hasn’t done anything lately to inspire any political cartooning. /s
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September 9, 2021 9:07am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Biden- “I do not use or need a teleprompter, low battery warning”
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September 9, 2021 9:10am
curry4me

ASTERISK RESIDENCY: Episode 34.
Direct from Harveywood, here is this week’s episode of Asterisk Presidency. Brought to you by the CCP, MSM, Wall Street, $oros, ANTIFA, BLM, CDC, Nordstream, globalists, ‘academia’, FBI, CIA, NSA, the Taliban, and Cuba.
Last week on Asterisk Residency the Taliban had all but finished overrunning Afghanistan. Does Afghanistan now have human rights with Taliban characteristics? Was some of the abandoned equipment demilitarized? Can the Taliban request a refund? Will they just have to make do with the stuff from Bagram? Will the presitator give them some replacements? Was Kabul Joe’s withdrawal a huge success for the Taliban too? Are they attending CRT classes between battles? Are there any Pride flags in the reopened classrooms? Is there a special place for transgender students? Does it involve a dirt nap? Will Kabul Joe pin Afghanistan on Quemala? Is the WH still leaking against Quemala? Is Kabul Joes declining popularity dragging Quemala down too? Or is she doing that just by being herself? Is Kabul Joe’s regime Taliban first? Can Putin get Americans out of Afghanistan? Is he the new leader of the world? Did Kabul Joe get the zombie vote? Are his other voters turning in their graves? Would a Taliban run Twit-ter have banned President Trump? Is erasing records grounds for impeachment? How many Dems are thinking Trump was right? Has science found a cure for socialism yet? Is AOC incurable? Will Mayor Pete need chest feeding guidance? Will he need to consult a gynaecologist? Is Kabul Joe 99% popular according to Dominion polls? Will the baby killers go all out too overturn the Texas abortion ban? San-Francisco is paying hoods $300 a month not to shoot each other? Will St Louis, Detroit, Chicago, and NY have to offer their hoods more? Are the people who said President Trump would destroy America destroying America? Does a daily briefing for Kabul Joe involve clean undies? Is Kabul Joe more confused than a chameleon in a bag of skittles? Stay tuned folks!
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September 9, 2021 9:10am
JibberJabber

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2021/09/sex-workers-clients-urged-to-be-inventive-as-face-masks-mandatory-during-covid-19-alert-level-2.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Are Gimp Suits and Gloryholes mandatory PPE now?
Asking for a friend…?
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September 9, 2021 9:12am
Maggy Wassilieff

Ructions continue within the Maori powerhouse

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/fallout-over-critical-maori-council-letter
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September 9, 2021 9:17am
Maggy Wassilieff

Trevor Mallard’s pettiness continues

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/the-one-building-in-wellington-thats-still-in-level-4
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September 9, 2021 9:24am
- I remember when
  
  I’m with Trevor on this one, but only for one reason.
  One of the great comedic acts at QT, at present, is Trevor wrestling with his mask.
  
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  September 9, 2021 10:13am
- nathie
  
  The article isn’t very flattering of Mallard!
  
  It’s also highlighting that Mallard is managing contrary to MoH/Bloomfield’s advice.
  
  It’s also highlighting that Mallard is acting vindictively eg keeping Parliament at level 4 (or level 4+ IMO) all because of Judith Collins!
  
  Betcha if/when Labour/Greens bring one of their MP’s (from the wider Auckland L4 area) into Parliament that Mallard disregards that rule that he applied to JC!
  
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  September 9, 2021 10:29am
- DeepBlue
  
  Fewer politicians and only Opposition MPs asking questions has been refreshing. Never seen Jacinda’s hands wring so much, as she was put on the spot over and over and over.
  
  As a result Labour and MoH have been implementing National policy this week faster than the pie cabinet emptying at Ballamys.
  
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  September 9, 2021 10:35am
  - Bob
    
    [attacked based on physical attributes are not permitted by the commenting guidelines – Mod]
    
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    September 9, 2021 12:06pm
thirteenstars

The Biden administration would be considered a joke if the consequences of its ineptitude were not so serious.

Biden’s State Department on the makeup of the new Taliban government:

We note the announced list of names consists exclusively of individuals who are members of the Taliban or their close associates and no women. We also are concerned by the affiliations and track records of some of the individuals.

We understand that the Taliban has presented this as a caretaker cabinet. However, we will judge the Taliban by its actions, not words.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/07/taliban-name-afghanistans-new-government

Perhaps they could send Kamala Harris over there to advise the mullahs about how to set up a gender studies programme. If all else fails perhaps the Taliban would accept the vice president as a prisoner exchange for the hostages they are holding.

RT nails it:

The Taliban are not liberals. This much should be obvious to anyone with a room-temperature IQ but, for some reason, the ‘international community’ thinks it can scold hardcore Islamists into behaving like Western politicians.

What did they expect? That the Taliban would pack its cabinet with lesbians? That Sunni Islamic hardliners would open their ranks to Sikhs, Hindus, Christians or to the country’s only Jew?

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/534293-taliban-government-diversity-inclusion/

No wonder Biden-related posts on KB are conspicuous by their absence.
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September 9, 2021 9:29am
- MCos
  
  There’s always been plenty of Biden related posts on this forum. Pretty much, if not all negative.
  How he’s seen in America, I don’t know, but I don’t think much is expected of him.
  Basically he was brought in to slay the dragon and now he’s stuck there for four years.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:54am
  - thirteenstars
    
    I said posts, not comments.
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:15am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    They’re chanting “F Joe Biden” at College Football games at the moment.
    
    9 1
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    September 9, 2021 10:23am
  - kowtow
    
    He’s no Saint George dragon slayer , more of a sock puppet .
    
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    September 9, 2021 11:37am
- Libertarians are right
  
  On the plus side. It’s not usually easy to get that many truly evil men in one place. Call it what it is – a terrorist take over illigitimate government and turn it to glass.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:56am
rjay

Nope. It’s gone
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September 9, 2021 9:35am
Maggy Wassilieff

We had a skype session with our overseas daughter last night..and whilst it’s similar to chatting with someone in the room with you, I was suddenly hit with the realisation that while I can see and hear her, I can’t smell her.
I’ve been wearing one of her old jerseys when I’m out gardening and now wonder whether I’m also missing the tactile side of her presence.
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September 9, 2021 9:41am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Live with hope….this too will pass.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:45am
- krazykiwi
  
  Only a small proportion of our communication is voice and 2-dimensional visual. The majority comes from body language cues, few of which transmit over digital channels. Our brain works extra hard to gather these cues over digital channels which is why a day on Zoom is much more tiring that would be the same meetings face to face.
  
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  September 9, 2021 9:50am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Yep, We are taught during Leadership courses that the spoken word is only 15-20 % and rest is Body Language etc.
    Always wondered what the optics were if you stuck a set of Poi’s during 1pm calls and what sort of patterns you would get.
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:05am
  - Diogenes
    
    I teach English to migrants as a volunteer. Now we’re down to Level 2 here, we’re restarting classes tomorrow. The kicker is that if we adhere to the government edict, the class have to stay masked. I am really struggling to see how that will work. As KK points out, a high proportion of communication is other than verbal. Among other things, masks muffle speech, and some of my students have accents that are not easy to understand at the best of times. And to teach well, I need to be able to see students’ mouths in order to help improve pronunciation. In addition, part of my lesson usually involves students reading to each other, which is important as they seldom read aloud outside the classroom. With students supposedly having to sit 2 metres apart, I can’t see this working. I am very open to suggestions.
    
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    September 9, 2021 10:54am
    - Inandout
      
      dio, plastic visors are permitted.
      
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      September 9, 2021 1:10pm
- Flossie
  
  I know Maggy as I too have kids living overseas. You can’t hug them can you.
  
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  September 9, 2021 11:38am
RW Capitalist

Wife died 5/3/21
Pain subsiding, memories kicking in.
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September 9, 2021 9:46am
- krazykiwi
  
  I recall you telling us of your wife’s illness. It’s tough loosing a loved one, and I’m relatively unpracticed at it. But the sweet memories do linger. Go well, RW Capitalist.
  
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  September 9, 2021 11:41am
- mandk
  
  It must really hurt, RW C.
  
  But don’t hold back from talking about it.
  
  The Kiwiblog fraternity is here to hear from you.
  
  Bestest wishes
  
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  September 9, 2021 2:51pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Ok….how it impacts the brain cells.
    A couple of months ago, I looked a couple of the more reputable dating cites.
    I scrolled through their questions and got to the end, knowing they will ask me to pay to register.
    I figured it was like buying on line, you get to the “check out” and don’t pay, just log off, the cancel everything.
    I was only curious…
    BUT NO
    You keep getting “there’s a lovely lady, wishing to get in touch….”
    It was almost stalking for weeks.
    Man did I feel stupid.
    
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    September 9, 2021 6:57pm
- Sponge
  
  I feel for you RWC. A terrible thing to go through.
  
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  September 9, 2021 7:22pm
thirteenstars

“Police Officer Assaults Man at Silverdale Pak’nSave”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm4bB0W-Zio

The full story:

https://thebfd.co.nz/2021/09/09/the-full-story-man-assaulted-by-police-for-shopping-with-his-own-partner/

The arrogance on display is beyond belief. Well, not so much perhaps due to the shut-up-and-do-what-you-are-told culture of the NZ Police.

It’s not just the physical and verbal abuse used by the cop, it’s the posturing and intimidation.

There’s no law the NZ police won’t enforce, and in this case they even have a penchant for enforcing things that don’t appear to be laws at all.
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September 9, 2021 9:48am
- Inandout
  
  thirteen, having at one time been in the constabulary stable I can attest there is a lot of frustration in the job because of petty internal regulations. I can imagine being given free rein by Jacinda to enforce her laws is one bit of excitement in a pretty mundane occupation. Another bit of excitement a cop can enjoy is pursuing a speeding vehicle, absolutely makes their day with all the adrenaline flowing.
  
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  September 9, 2021 10:44am
  - thirteenstars
    
    Petty internal regulations? If you mean politically-correct regulations, well, all I can say is if you enforce PC regulations, you have to abide by them, too. Live by the sword, etc.
    
    Further, modern cops have been spat out of the politically-correct government education system. I don’t think they’d even grasp how PC their police college indoctrination was.
    
    I’m not anti-cop. I’m anti-bad law. But cops enforce the law, even the truly bad ones, of which there are increasingly many. Does that give a cop a free pass, as if to say, hey, I’m just obeying orders? Don’t blame me.
    
    Cops are amoral by nature, which is why I said there’s no law a cop won’t enforce. And therein lies the dilemma if you have a conscience. But ultimately it’s an individual’s choice to join the police. You don’t get to say, most laws are fine, many are grey areas, and quite a few are wrong so I won’t enforce those. You damn-well know you’ll be enforcing laws you disagree with. It’s no ordinary job. You’ve got special powers. You can arrest. You can ruin a person’s life upon the altar of blind obedience.
    
    The coming hate speech laws are the perfect case in point. Yet there’ll be not one voice raised in the police as to how many of its members will have serious issues of conscience enforcing those laws.
    
    That’s why cops like the one in the video are truly dangerous since they will enforce very bad law with a self-righteous unconcern. Given enough bad law the cops become just another gang; but a gang with the law as their weapon and shield.
    
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    September 9, 2021 12:46pm
    - Inandout
      
      thirteen, can I suggest you go the Police Associalion site.
      https://www.policeassn.org.nz/newsroom/police-news/police-news-magazine#/
      
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      September 9, 2021 1:18pm
      - thirteenstars
        
        And what am I expected to find there?
        
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        September 9, 2021 5:22pm
- kowtow
  
  Talking of BFD they’ve a story on Wiles unmasked at the beach .
  
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  September 9, 2021 11:37am
I remember when

A summary of the 60% of New Zealanders in areas where there was no covid, when they went into Lockdown, shows they behaved impeccably and there have been NO cases since Lockdown started.
It would be easy in such situations to get complacent, but fortunately sense has prevailed and we have moved to a Delta Level 2.
Delta Level 2 is Level 2 with a couple of twists to show the media we are constantly learning and making changes.
Listening to the science and on top of the outbreak.
In a slightly shorter period of time than in previous lockdowns we will, having had NO covid cases, move to Level 1 – with a couple of twists, etc.
We will have saved no lives, cost local economies a fortune and probably cost lives in another way.
All that was required was to remain where we were covidwise with the proviso that we would immediately go to Level 4, in clearly defined localised regions, if a case occured.
Still it was only money, health, business and convenience – so it didn’t really matter much.
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September 9, 2021 9:51am
- thirteenstars
  
  A supermarket employee told me yesterday they were at Level 2.5.
  
  2.5, I asked.
  
  Oh, yes, she said, that’s what we are calling it. It’s not level2 and it’s not level 3.
  
  Aren’t bendy regulations a wonderful thing.
  
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  September 9, 2021 10:21am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8dx2yOgeXs

Does Western Intervention Ever Work? – TLDR News.

Sometimes, Western intervention works, and sometimes it doesn’t. [10:48]
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September 9, 2021 9:57am
oldfella

Does anyone know what happened to the UN worker in Fiji with covid who was flown to Auckland for medical treatment? Are they still in hospital? Surely a simple question in parliament wouldn’t be out of order, considering the fuss that erupted over getting them here. Or is there a reason for the silence?
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September 9, 2021 10:12am
- kowtow
  
  The Media pardy are all bought and paid for.
  
  Where’s the outrage and questioning of how this latest out break broke out .
  
  And the tame questions at the daily podium of odium are just like what it is ;
  
  set piece theatre to give the impression to the Plebs of accountablity .
  
  Notice too how she jumps in when it looks like Blofeld is about to go off script .
  
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  September 9, 2021 11:35am
Bluegrass

Mod – I accidentally reported cmm re his GPs – ignore it. I am using a mouse and screen keyboard – due to some injured fingers – maybe that is the problem.

Plus – why can’t we recall/delete ticks/reports etc by cancelling them, like you can do on many other blogs?
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September 9, 2021 10:13am
plc

I work for a Government organisation in Wellington.

Our “Pandemic Response Committee” have determined mask wearing is compulsory within 2 metres of each other.

Less than 20% of our staff have turned up to the office today.

Extended holiday at the taxpayers’ expense, apparently
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September 9, 2021 10:14am
- krazykiwi
  
  I have the same problem. My direct reports have been working hard at team cohesiveness, collaboration, empathy … and all of this is getting trashed as people are now consigned to being isolated transactional workers focused on remote keystrokes and mouse clicks.
  
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  September 9, 2021 11:46am
Ruawai

We have a couple of hundred school students in the rural Franklin area who normally attend boarding school in Hamilton who are now effectively unable to access education. The schools they attend are now back to in class learning so online learning has stopped meaning this small subset of students are not able to be educated even though they have been isolating at home for 3 weeks and live rurally near the Waikato/Auckland border and are happy to be tested prior to returning to boarding, these students are also happy to remain in Waikato for the rest of the term so no multiple crossing of the border. Yet essential workers are able to cross back and forth every day.
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September 9, 2021 10:16am
- Ehlana
  
  Ah, Ruawai, you seek an “answer requiring thought”. These are currently out of stock and we do not know when supply will resume. We apologise for the inconvenience.
  
  If they’re at boarding schools though, those are presumably private schools who will, since parents are actually paying for it, organise themselves to continue providing education for those still stuck at home until such time as they can rejoin the school.
  
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  September 9, 2021 12:24pm
  - Ruawai
    
    Most are public schools; HGHS (public), HBHS (public), Waikato Dio (state integrated) and St Pauls (private). Because teachers are now teaching classes they have no time to teach online and schools are generally not providing any online learning so no access to education for likely 3 more weeks at least, especially hard and unfair for year 12 and 13 students.
    
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    September 9, 2021 12:31pm
    - Ehlana
      
      Yes, that is tough. The sensible thing, as you say, would have been to test, then let them return to school.
      
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      September 9, 2021 12:40pm
Diogenes

I have just come from a trip to the dentist (fortunately possible in Christchurch since yesterday). He told me that Levels 3 and 4 cost him all his life savings, and that he is only hanging on by a thread. If we go back up the scale again he won’t be able to keep his practice open. And this person is rated as one of Christchurch’s top dentists!!
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September 9, 2021 10:40am
- kevn
  
  @Dio… She don’t care. The optics/perception/polls say all good and sooo kind.
  Rooting NZ.
  
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  September 9, 2021 11:18am
- Ruawai
  
  And iconic Prefab cafe in Wellington closing, very sad for businesses hurting out there.
  
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  September 9, 2021 12:28pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  This is what the epic demonologists don’t take into account: the affect of narrow minded decisions on others.
  Strong action requires strong proof-sadly missing. One of the number crunchers was actually using Fortran. (Did he write the code 50 years ago?)
  
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  September 9, 2021 1:00pm
Yvette

Kiwiblog Readers: please note that my “3 Waters” comment above –
https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/09/general_debate_09_september_2021.html/comment-page-1#comment-3013908
– is inaccurate. The Herald article quoted is out-of-date (16 Aug, 2018) in respect to the current issue
An apology is in the REPLYs just below my “3 Waters” comment
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September 9, 2021 10:46am
sgthree

How many people are aware, as a result of the publicly presented information about current alert levels, that it is now mandatory for a business to destroy the contact tracing information it has collected after 60 days?
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September 9, 2021 10:58am
- Ehlana
  
  Strange you should mention that. I am on the Covid19Response mailing list of the DPMC. Microsoft identifies there e-mails as Phishing and puts them in quarantine. Every time.
  
  Of course, Microsoft classifies its own Message Center Major Change Update Notifications as spam, so may be it’s par for their course…
  
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  September 9, 2021 2:10pm
Critical Thinker

Nothing triggers authoritarians like the non compliant.
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September 9, 2021 10:58am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING…..

Next thing you know, they’ll be using toilet paper 😀

https://twitter.com/MarianneSansum/status/1435711445463883780
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September 9, 2021 11:23am
igm

I knew this mongrel was low, but this is over the top:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300402958/the-one-building-in-wellington-still-in-level-4
Thee worst Speaker in history!
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September 9, 2021 11:28am
Rusty

To be jabbed or not to be jabbed that is the question!

Referring to Mike Hoskins article in the herald today.

So the govt interprets a booking for the jab as meaning that person has been vaccinated already.
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September 9, 2021 11:37am
- Stu2
  
  What?
  
  The Health site has numbers booked for first dose and booked for second dose (if you do a bit of arithmetic to pull them out)
  
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  September 9, 2021 12:45pm
- Stu2
  
  As of yesterday form the Health page
  
  https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data
  
  First doses 2711 (000)
  Second doses 1389
  
  First dose booked 435
  Second dose booked 1365 (may or may not have a first dose)
  
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  September 9, 2021 1:23pm
Maggie Pie

ANZ been down for last few hours!

How embarrassing trying explain yourself at an Indian dairy 🙁
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September 9, 2021 11:45am
- kowtow
  
  They were one of the leading banks pushing folk out of the branches and onto cyber space .
  
  Tossers of the very highest order .
  
  Same with the ‘people’s bank’ , kiwibank , they were the first to go chequeless , and the rest were able to follow .
  
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  September 9, 2021 11:53am
- kevn
  
  @Maggie… Just say ‘cricket’ and they will fall over you to apologize.
  
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  September 9, 2021 12:04pm
kevn

Hoping Cactus Kate/Asian Invasion pops up to tell us what’s happening to her blog site.
Looks to be a sinister element at play.
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September 9, 2021 11:52am
- Batman
  
  Its more than likely to be like last time, where she delisted it herself.
  
  Always best to be careful when you’re a high powered corporate lawyer!
  
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  September 9, 2021 12:17pm
  - cmm
    
    “Always best to be careful when you’re a high powered corporate lawyer!”
    
    … coz there are a bunch of wokes and other cancel freaks out to shoot you down.
    
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    September 9, 2021 5:14pm
oldfella

Just spotted this ‘Neighbourly’ question.
My friend booked and stayed in a MIQ in June . She said while booking online, there was no pre payment required and when she left the hotel, she asked if she needed to pay before she leave, they told her to wait for their invoice . It is almost 3.5 months now, there was no invoice. Has anyone had the same experience
Hmm, might be time to ask Chippy how that’s going. It’s our money after all.
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September 9, 2021 12:36pm
Fisiani2

Walking along Lambton Quay at lunchtime and 99% of people wearing a mask yet not a single covid virus within 400kms. Too far for a sneeze. Why are we not in level 1 NOW? If not NOW then how about tomorrow.
23 1
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September 9, 2021 12:36pm
- mandk
  
  I was one of the 1%, and I got a few glares, presumably because I look like an ivermectin-swallowing, anti-COVID-vaxxer.
  
  Never mind, I was able to amuse myself by thinking of novel sign-in noms de plume.
  
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  September 9, 2021 2:40pm
I remember when

“Needling problem around vaccinations: Gordon Campbell:
A good article by a writer not often considered a ‘right wing’ choice.
Worth a look.
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September 9, 2021 12:47pm
Surely Knott

Leaky vaccines can produce stronger versions of viruses. (Healthline 2019 – pre covid)

“By studying chickens, researchers say they have proven the theory that more virulent viruses can evolve from so-called “leaky” vaccines.”

“According to a new study published today in the scientific journal PLOS Biology, some types of vaccines could allow more virulent versions of a virus to survive, putting those who are unvaccinated at greater risk of severe illness.”

“After experiments done in a specialized pathogen-containment facility at The Pirbright Institute in the United Kingdom, the researchers concluded that the vaccines developed to combat Marek’s disease were imperfect or leaky.

“These vaccines also allow the virulent virus to continue evolving precisely because they allow the vaccinated individuals, and therefore themselves, to survive,” said Venugopal Nair, who led the research team. He is the head of the Avian Viral Diseases program at The Pirbright Institute.

These less-than-perfect vaccines create a “leaky” barrier against the virus. Vaccinated individuals may get sick but have less severe symptoms, but the virus survives long enough to transmit to others, which allows it to survive and spread throughout a population.

“Our research demonstrates that the use of leaky vaccines can promote the evolution of nastier ‘hot’ viral strains that put unvaccinated individuals at greater risk,” Nair said.

Marek’s disease used to be a minor ailment that did little harm to chickens in the 1950s, but the virus has grown stronger and today is capable of killing all the unvaccinated birds in poultry flocks, sometimes within 10 days.”

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/leaky-vaccines-can-produce-stronger-versions-of-viruses-072715
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September 9, 2021 12:54pm
- Liberal Cliche
  
  I wonder if those maxvaxxed with 2 doses will figure out when the 3rd and 4th dose comes they will be treated the same as the “un-vaxxed”
  
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  September 9, 2021 2:06pm
Fletch

Here it comes.

“Australian court rules media liable for Facebook comments”

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/world/australian-court-rules-media-liable-facebook-comments

This will pave the way for media companies to delete any comments under a Facebook story of theirs that they consider might get them in trouble.
Another attack against free speech. You’ll only be seeing comments agreeing with the narrative.
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September 9, 2021 12:55pm
Fletch

This from this morning –

An item believed to be an IED or improvised explosive device has been found at Christchurch Airport, causing the evacuation of the terminal.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2021/09/travellers-evacuated-from-christchurch-aiport-after-item-of-interest-found.html
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September 9, 2021 1:01pm
Nickc2

This is totally over the top! NSW Govt limits alcohol quantities for residents of tower blocks. Quantities in excess of Govt dictates are confiscated by Police and held awaiting end of lockdown.
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2021/09/nsw-govt-imposes-6-beer-daily-limit-for-tower-bock-lockdown-police-search-deliveries-confiscate-exce.html
Who would have thought? What draconian dictates from a Liberal Govt.
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September 9, 2021 1:10pm
Fletch

Today’s big vaccine announcement by the PM – the govt have secured 250,000 doses of the Pfizer vaccine from Spain due in the country tomorrow morning. Sadly, no mention of Novavax yet…
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September 9, 2021 1:15pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Why does getting the vax rate up matter? We don’t have enough ICU capacity to make it tolerable to the glorious leader to to open up – they need 5-10x the ICU beds to not be overwhelmed. So all that happens if we now rush vaccination is that we will all be required to pointlessly have another one or two boosters before the finally open in 2023.
  
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  September 9, 2021 5:58pm
- [email protected]
  
  Hopefully the vaccine logs of time/temperature will show that NZ is not being sold a load of worthless, out of date stuff just to make the Labour government look good,
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:22pm
WaveyDavey

250,000 from Spain? Right-oh 2.5 day’s supply.

Well I’m impressed… 3 weeks of negotiations gets that?
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September 9, 2021 1:17pm
- kevn
  
  @WAvey…. Now, I wonder what the logistics are for getting the fizzer to were it is most needed. Any guesses that it will be a cockup?
  
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  September 9, 2021 3:10pm
ByGolly

Does anyone know what has happened to Cactus Kate blog ??
Vanished.
While I’m here, a link to an excellent piece by Dr Muriel Newman on democracy in N.Z.

https://www.nzcpr.com/democracy-in-new-zealand-a-stocktake/#more-35430
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September 9, 2021 1:19pm
kevn

@bat… That was just a name/layout change.
Let’s see what. CK does post on here from time to time.
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September 9, 2021 1:33pm
kowtow

She thanked President Pedro Sanchez of Spain .

Here was me thinking they had a King as HoS.
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September 9, 2021 1:34pm
Inandout

Last night I watched a doco on the Tuaregs, an Islamic tribe in Niger where the men are facially wrapped but the womens’ faces are exposed; a complete opposite of what we are used to seeing. The camel is indeed a fascinating creature and well prepared for desert life, walking with handlers for hundreds of miles. The male handlers have to walk quickly to keep up with the long legged animals and I suspect the women stay home to prepare for the home coming. Not all of Sahara is sand but when bathed in evening light the dunes are beautiful.
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September 9, 2021 1:40pm
Yvette

As referred to by ‘igm’ above –
Despite the fact that the capital – and most of the country – is now in level 2, Parliament is still operating as it did under level 4 conditions. Speaker Trevor Mallard says that’s a result of MPs like Judith Collins travelling from Auckland.
These rules will remain in place until 14 days after the arrival date of Collins, Mallard told Newsroom.

Mallard said Bloomfield had provided advice on how to run Parliament at higher alert levels, but this latest twist was based on his own interpretation of the rules – not the first time he’s presented his own take on the health advice.
And Bloomfield himself seems to be under the impression Parliament is operating at level 2. Clearly he hadn’t expected the precinct to continue operating as if it were in Auckland.

• Is Collins the only Member to come from Auckland?
• Or is Mallard or reportage just anti Collins
• Has Collins had an appropriately recent covid test?
• If Bloomfield has previously provided advice on how to run Parliament, why is this “latest twist” based on Mallard’s own interpretation of the rules?
• Is Mallard – sitting so far from anyone else, but still masked so he has trouble with speaking, as Speaker, and entangling his hearing aids with his mask – qualified to make medical decisions?

And from the same article –
The Government is hoping to negotiate a swap, with other countries sending us their Pfizer doses due for delivery in September while we let them take the supply we were supposed to get in October.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300402958/the-one-building-in-wellington-still-in-level-4

And “Breaking” –
More Pfizer Covid-19 vaccines to arrive Friday – Spain is sending more than a quarter of a million doses.
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September 9, 2021 1:59pm
- rangitoto
  
  Ardern fled from Auckland as soon as she heard news of the outbreak. Was she tested? Visited any places of interest? Was she scanning in?
  
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  September 9, 2021 3:55pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Indeed, Toby Manhire (surely that’s an unfortunate surname for his social milieu) has tried to crack a funny on Twitter by saying the Spanish flew them here…
  
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  September 9, 2021 4:36pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  “And “Breaking” –
  More Pfizer Covid-19 vaccines to arrive Friday – Spain is sending more than a quarter of a million doses.”
  
  I won’t repeat the maths fully here but @ 6 doses per vial, add some volume for mixing, put a whole pile of round vials into a frozen storage box and the MoH, DFA & Cabinet after weeks of hard work have successfully secured a package about the volume equivalent of your good old 25 kg butter box .
  
  What was even better in the breaking news was that not only has our PM moved from crayon and paper visuals to graphs, but she was proudly able to profess to being able to track that the progress of above mentioned package on “Flight tracker”.
  Her growth in visual comprehension is astounding!
  
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  September 9, 2021 5:02pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Note she mentioned Flight Tracker in a speech written for her. Ask her what is shown on Flight Tracker and she wouldn’t have a clue, as for many other things.
    However, the luvvies and grannies will sing her praises throughout the land.
    
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    September 10, 2021 1:39am
westernScientest

@ Maggie Pie
Hope you head down to your local remmas butcher next time you need a fillet.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/126330367/police-make-auckland-butcher-shut-shop
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September 9, 2021 2:49pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  The Australian owned supermarket, Countdown, can open but the sole trader, a 100% New Zealander, must not compete with the Aussie’s butchery section.
  David Seymour has pointed out the idiocy of this situation.
  I am confident that Judith Collins will retain the leadership of the National Party, but she should relinquish the position Leader of the Opposition to Seymour.
  
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  September 9, 2021 3:55pm
- skyblue
  
  Great name for a butcher – Hogg.
  
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  September 9, 2021 4:11pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Absolutely! Best pork belly in town…..and always knows to score mine with a criss-cross at no xtra cost.
  
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  September 9, 2021 4:19pm
  - greybeard
    
    Just as a matter of interest: if one of the rest of us bought a pork belly from them and requested criss-cross scoring, how much extra would that be?
    
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    September 9, 2021 4:22pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Just mention my name gb… Hoggy’ll look after ya 😀
      
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      September 9, 2021 4:57pm
- oldfella
  
  WS, are Halal butchers doing click and collect? If so, are they also being hassled? Anyone know?
  
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  September 9, 2021 4:47pm
kevn

@west… Clowns are running things, badly.
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September 9, 2021 3:08pm
NoFax

The PM said today that everyone needs to get a vaccine to protect the person who can’t get the vaccine. Ok, so let’s unpack that.

So does the PM not know that those who are vaccinated can still pass on Covid? It is reduced by about 50% so still significant. If she doesn’t know that then why am I locked up since I have been double dosed. In the UK they know there will be no such thing as herd immunity and everyone will get it at some stage.

The logic is baffling – we are in lockdown because of Delta Covid and not enough are vaccinated but those who are vaccinated are treated the same as those who are not vaccinated. And when we are all vaccinated we can’t open the borders as people will get Covid. So why are we getting vaccinated?

This is not scientific it is political – once one realizes that then it makes sense. These lockdowns will not end until the people demand it.
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September 9, 2021 3:35pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The story is shifting…
  Our PM is perhaps realising that the elimination strategy isn’t going to work for much longer…
  
  So if folks catch covid it will no longer be because of a border failure aka Government balls-up, it will be because someone didn’t get vaccinated!
  
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  September 9, 2021 7:16pm
JibberJabber

Vote Labour,
They are going to borrow enough money to pay off the National Debt.
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September 9, 2021 3:54pm
Brian McDonald

Not much difference here today. No doubt all the anti vaxers and anti-mask wearers will be true to their beliefs when they finally go out and face the real world? Or will they just be compliant and vent their “defiance” in anonymous posts?
Dear Judith was going on about “poor old truckies” having to have Covid tests if they cross the regional borders, also someone from one of the transport forums complained about police checks and how it would hold up lines of truck traffic.
“poor old truckies” are capable of spreading the virus so why not require them to test if traveling through different Covid levels. Judith would be the first to moan if Covid was moved across a regional border by a truckie, tradie or courier driver.
As for police stop pullovers, you’d think someone purportedly speaking for the industry would know there are pullover areas frequent along main routes where a truck if stopped doesn’t hold up traffic.
They’ve only had them for about 50 years.
Before the news broke about driver testing we had decided to vaccinate and test voluntarily to keep with MBIE papers and scan codes required to be produced on demand if crossing the border.
We learned today that all such information comes up with the scan of the MBIE papers. As far as tests go, my first was at the ports last year and I never got a result (obvious negative.) The 2nd about a month back and got a text the next day. The last yesterday, text and email this morning.
So things move on since some papers overseas shrieked about NZ closing down because of a single Covid case and that elimination hadn’t worked.
Elimination had worked and then a person tracked a new case through which to this point resulted in some 800 infections, a lot more testing, and record-breaking vaccination numbers. But you wouldn’t know if you were on KB all day knitting jumpers thinking of new conspiracies and any kind of original insult of the PM.
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September 9, 2021 4:16pm
- Stu2
  
  There have been several cross state border infections via truck drivers in oz.
  
  It makes perfect sense to introduce a weekly testing requirement here. Not fool proof but better than no test.
  
  I wonder what kiwi rail is doing,
  
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  September 9, 2021 4:33pm
- Cinematic
  
  Relax Brian, Kiwiblog’s just a bit of banter. You need to find a new hobby if it’s getting you this wound up.
  
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  September 9, 2021 5:06pm
CAKE FACE1

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300403541/vaccine-passports-this-year-pm-says-no-change-to-2022-border-opening

Hippy and Cindy manage to say the exact opposite to each other.

Cindy is supposed to be good at communication, but actually she doesn’t make any sense.

It’s not acceptable.

In the end, there is no way to understand what the plan is.

Can an idiot hack please ask them to clarify?
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September 9, 2021 4:37pm
WaveyDavey

Hmmm… did this pass you all by?

NZ to have vaccine passport by Christmas

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-nz-to-have-vaccine-passport-by-christmas/BWHHR6BDTFXWDXFQOLKCY7KKTI/
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September 9, 2021 5:08pm
- fernglas
  
  It’s an electronic version of what is currently available, which is a letter from the MoH confirming vaccine staus. I don’t know why it will take until Xmas, the EU has had one going for months, and surely it would be easier to just ask for their program, and save everybody a lot of wasted time. But hey, kiwis can do anything, right? Thanks for the chuckles, you guys.
  
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  September 9, 2021 6:02pm
- Inandout
  
  Hopefully Twyford is not in charge of the passports.
  
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  September 9, 2021 6:06pm
Maggy Wassilieff

A scathing verdict on the Conduct of Oranga Tamariki staff.

The judge was particularly scathing of Oranga Tamariki staff members’ failure to appreciate the need for honesty and accuracy when compiling statutory reports, and concluded that social workers appeared to place little importance in documents that were vital to a child’s wellbeing.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/126334548/judge-dismisses-oranga-tamarikis-bid-to-remove-mori-girl-from-pkeh-couple
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September 9, 2021 5:45pm
- fernglas
  
  Wait for the pile-on. The Judge is a person with high principles and integrity, and yet the Heads of Bench, at the instigation of the head of Oranga Tamariki, tried to interfere with the way he dealt with the case while it was still in progress. Newsroom has been running a hit job on him for weeks, alleging he is unfair and harsh to women in his Court. I can tell you from knowing him for years, that he does not suffer mendacious fools gladly, regardless of race or gender, and he has always acted from a level of honour and decency that he clearly found lacking in the organisation entrusted with our children’s welfare. Perhaps Oranga Tamariki should look at its own failings long and hard, but I doubt it.
  
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  September 9, 2021 6:19pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yes,
    I read the Newsroom hit job.. but it is going to be difficult for OT to explain away the failure of their staff to carry out their statutory duties.
    
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    September 9, 2021 7:10pm
- Cinematic
  
  Very very very pleased to see this judgement. Massive fail by child, youth and family.
  
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  September 9, 2021 6:59pm
krazykiwi

Ardern on RNZ just now “Everyone having the shot is saving someone else’s life.”

A blatant, inexcusable lie, one that goes unchallenged buy the bought and paid for state media directly to the ears of the unthinking.
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September 9, 2021 6:07pm
- dcrane
  
  Will she be moving to ban all nonessential use of risky motor vehicles and lower all ordinary speed limits to 30 kph? Many, many times more “lives would be saved” in this manner. This is not about saving lives together.
  
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  September 9, 2021 6:44pm
- Cinematic
  
  This complete nonsense, nay, uninformed dribble shouldn’t be allowed to go unchecked by the media. But it is. It’s a payroll thing.
  
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  September 9, 2021 6:57pm
Batman

https://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/ivermectin-causes-sterilization-in-85-percent-of-men-study-finds/

Another reason you should really really not take Ivermectin other than as a last hail Mary in ICU… You’ll be shooting blanks most likely.

A big yikes for anyone not yet done with children.
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September 9, 2021 6:27pm
- rangitoto
  
  Explains the low birth rate in Africa.
  
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  September 9, 2021 6:35pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    hahahaha
    ‘Nurse, Nurse, Burn ointment for cubicle 4’
    
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    September 9, 2021 7:18pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  A sample size of 385 in Nigeria…
  
  Yeah, I’ll give that a miss on the credibility front thanks
  
  EDIT: And it doesn’t actually say what you claim it says: “85 percent of all male patients treated in a particular center… developed various forms, grades and degrees of sperm dysfunction.”
  
  Maybe read what you link to before posting eh?
  
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  September 9, 2021 6:39pm
- dcrane
  
  Oh, so global health authorities have been happily sterilizing half of equatorial Africa? Countless people take the drug there to save them from river blindness, and a Nobel prize was awarded for this accomplishment. Whatever you say, dude.
  
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  September 9, 2021 6:46pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  EDIT: And not even 385 when you read the report. Actually 37 patients
  
  “In this study we screened a total of 385 patients who were diagnosed of onchocerciasis.
  
  Out of which, 37 (9.6%) were eligible for further tests…
  
  We therefore investigated the effects of ivermectin therapy on the sperm functions of these eligible 37 diagnosed patients”
  
  About as credible as most of your previous referenced posts I’d say – so pretty much zero
  
  He shoots. He misses.
  
  As usual
  
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  September 9, 2021 6:47pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Low fertility I can accept.
  Low impotence I can’t.
  
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  September 9, 2021 7:21pm
- krazykiwi
  
  My God you’re gullible. Where is the ‘study’? Oh, that’s there is no link to study from “Researchers at three universities in Nigeria”.
  
  7 1
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  September 9, 2021 7:48pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  *boop*
  
  “The study in question was not published in a credible journal, nor was it hosted by an accredited, reputable institution. In the decade since the study’s supposed 2011 publication, there has been little — if any — related research to confirm its findings. Furthermore, a spokesperson for the U.S. FDA told Snopes that infertility in men is not a known side effect of ivermectin and, as such, is not included in U.S. labeling requirements.” – Snopes
  
  https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ivermectin-sterility-in-men/
  
  The study consisted of a whopping 37 Nigerian men.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AZTNso0MmI
  ?
  
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  September 9, 2021 8:05pm
  - dcrane
    
    God if snopes says it’s false I actually have to wonder…
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:21pm
  - WaveyDavey
    
    You have to wonder why Batty-Boy would spend time searching for stories about Ivermectin
    
    I can only imagine how his little face must have lit up when he found that one.
    
    So excited and eager, in fact, to make his point that he (a) didn’t read the story and (b) didn’t check out the linked study which was errrm… unreliable at best – and that’s being incredibly generous
    
    What on earth are they teaching students these days?
    
    Still I’m sure he’ll show up to retract/offer a mea culpa
    
    Yeah. Right.
    
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    September 9, 2021 9:59pm
    - Batman
      
      Hi there Davey,
      
      Yes I did enjoy a wee chance to wind up the alt-medicine crowd. Given the frenzied response which personally attacked me, it seems I touched a nerve.
      
      I did read it and noted the studies involved but decided to post it anyway. Heck, possible sterilisation thanks to ivermectin is too good of a laugh to turn down aside from the people shitting their pants and posting to Facebook seeking help with it!
      
      Thanks for the evening chuckle of you lot suddenly becoming very concerned about the reliability of studies. Its chef’s kiss level poetry.
      
      Enjoy your unapproved medications! Don’t come running to the public health system when it goes wrong.
      
      Oh and get vaccinated.
      
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      September 10, 2021 12:14am
      - WaveyDavey
        
        Of course you did dear. You really are quite the arse
        
        See, I even read the links (and the linked study in this case – 37 people FFS) that you post don’t just swallow the headlines hook, line and sinker
        
        And again you play the man, It’s pretty much your schtick – I’ve never even mentioned Ivermectin and I’ve been double-jabbed for quite some time (thanks Aussie)
        
        And as for the “I was only joking” when your foolishness is called out… GTFU and own your idiocy
        
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        September 10, 2021 7:00am
  - Batman
    
    Great work critical. Since we’re posting Snopes links you might find this one very interesting indeed:
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ivermectin-cure-coronavirus/
    
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    September 10, 2021 12:19am
- Tom Hunter
  
  Jesus Christ.
  
  There are often jokes about not allowing people to vote until they demonstrate a minimum IQ level.
  
  Can DPF get one for moderators?
  
  FFS.
  
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  September 9, 2021 10:12pm
  - Batman
    
    It is pretty hilarious that anything counter narrative gets mocked quite personally, when the fraudulent pushing of ivermectin continue on because it is the approved narrative of the sheeple.
    
    Amazing how the rigor of studies is suddenly important, and even a few comments about Nigeria, insinuating it can’t possibly be reliable.
    
    Meanwhile, multiple people are parroting the same stuff that the cuckoo demon sperm woman from ‘Americas frontline doctors’ is babbling about.
    
    And a lot of sensitivity about it too, touched a nerve it seems!
    
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    September 10, 2021 12:08am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING…

One of the girls from tennis reckons Pedro Sanchez looks HOT 😛
4 1
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September 9, 2021 6:59pm
kevn

@kk… Our very own Superheroine.
Amazeballs.
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September 9, 2021 7:22pm
ecco

Labour going after the high school student vote now, in the name of COVID, knowing they will be at uni come next election. Ie no mask wearing in high school – why?
Now read of free NCEA credits being given away because schools have been closed for longer than 20 days – why?
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September 9, 2021 7:53pm

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