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September 11, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 11 September 2021

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General Debate

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krazykiwi

It’s legal. So what’s the problem?

We are currently enduring a seemingly endless stream of suspensions of human rights, state-led fear mongering, and police overreach. If published prophetically two years ago, the extent of these draconian interventions would have resulted in most of us yelling Conspiracy Theorist! at the prophet. Think back to your outlook on life in September 2019 and tell me I’m wrong.

At that time would have been zero credibility to claims that Aussie authorities would soon be firing rubber bullets at protesters, shooting rescued dogs and deploying the bomb squad to deal with teenagers at the beach, and that New Zealand citizens would be locked in their homes for months on end, that key provisions of our Bill of Right would be circumvented, and that our citizens abroad would be locked out of their home country in violation of a bunch of international treaties, and that someone could be sent straight to jail for two months after committing the hitherto unknown crime of travelling by train and bus from Sydney to Tenterfield, and that we would be instructed to not speak with our neighbours.

Perhaps more alarming than the abuses of fundamental civil liberties is the fact that, except for routine police overreach (‘come back for some time in the cells‘) or procedural cockups (‘yes, the first lockdown was illegal‘), these measures have been foisted on us using existing legislation, duly enacted by parliament, and left ticking away on the statute books by successive Labour and National governments.

In New Zealand’s case the ‘sleeper’ legislation is the Health Act 1956, and the operative sections are s(70) and s(71). These grant extraordinary powers to the Director General of Health, and in the case of s(71A)(1)(e), giving police the power ….

… to compel, enforce, or ensure compliance with a requirement made by a medical officer of health or any person authorised by a medical officer of health in the exercise or performance of powers or functions under section 70 or 71;

The bolding is mine. A requirement is not a law. In this context a requirement is whatever the Director General of Health or their delegate subjectively deems it to be. A requirement need not be based on sound science. It can be arbitrary, baseless and without merit. But if you fail to comply then you are liable for arrest. A requirement is a diktat, and no tortured semantics can make it otherwise.

My contention is that elements of the Health Act 1956 tacitly support the functioning of New Zealand as a police state, at that provisions such are s(71A)(1)(e) explicitly confirm this.
The COVID-19 Public Health Response Act 2020 attempted to fix some of the troublesome aspects of the Health Act 1956, but in truth it further entrenches state overreach on the flimsiest of pretexts. The Public Health Response Act 2020 will be automatically repealed on 13th May 2022. I’m interested in having any legal beagles in our midst help me to understand if/how this act supersedes provisions of the Health Act 1956.

As an aside, I note s(4)(c) of Public Health Response Act 2020 states that “The purpose of this Act is to support a public health response to COVID-19 that [..] is co-ordinated, orderly, and proportionate”. When New Zealand was rushed into Level 4 Lockdown at midnight on 17th August and justified by a single infection (and sparking mocking and/or incredulity from around the world), the nation was given less than 7 hours’ notice. Was that orderly and proportionate? I suggest it was nether.

So, what to do?

Well, a good start would be to have a functioning opposition. You know, one that stands for something other than simply What Labour Does, But Better™, their current policy because that is what the focus groups suggest will sell. On this front I have little faith, so the suggestions below are aspirational, perhaps for consideration sometime after the duplicity of our major parties has driven New Zealand to some epoch-defining inflection point.

From legislative reform perspective, we should: –

♦ Put population-wide suspension of civil liberties well beyond a simple majority vote or the casual wand waving of the Director General of Health. I’m quite happy for the fine levied for disturbing a whale to be adjusted based on a majority vote. But the home imprisonment of 5 million people with the ensuing destruction of businesses and downstream public health carnage demands a substantially higher bar.

♦ Remove all and any scope for arbitrary diktats to be in any way enforceable.

♦ Legislate for cross-party governance of crises, with the leader of the largest opposition party chairing any such body.

♦ Ensure that any new rights or powers granted under emergency conditions are fully rescinded either automatically after the crisis is over, or after the passing of a defined period.

♦ Ensure that ‘science’ can’t be cherry-picked to drive interventions. We need open, public access for all non-PII data and to demand the airing of multiple scientific viewpoints as part of establishing policy.

You might like to suggest more.

Most urgently, we must prevent wannabe totalitarian leaders from using laws intended to protect us as stepping-stones for their giddy aspirations, and we must prevent them sowing compliance-inducing fear into the hearts of the very people they were elected to serve.
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September 11, 2021 8:00am
- RockyJ
  
  You make some good points. I think that NZ is suffering from the lack of a constitution. At the moment this radical activist government is using its simple majority to make huge changes to our legal and democratic frameworks without gaining a mandate from the people.
  Maori activists and academics like Margaret Mutu have said in the past “we need to have a conversation about a constitution”. I say “bring it on!”
  
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  September 11, 2021 8:27am
  - Nickc2
    
    I agree we need one but I don’t think now is the time to set the ball rolling so to speak. Let’s wait until we have a more sensible Govt and we are free of the overriding influence of this Govts Maori Caucus, University ensconced Maori Academic activists, a much less biased MSM and a Judicial System free of Govt influence.
    I fear that if we attempt to do it now, we’ll only get Govt lickspittles assigned to the job and a document produced and supposedly agreed to that entrenches Socialism forever and Aotearoa (spit spit) established as the People’s Republic of the South Seas with ……… as the President for Life.
    
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    September 11, 2021 9:29am
    - Gravelroad
      
      @Nickc2
      “Let’s wait until we have a more sensible Govt and we are free of the overriding influence of this Govts Maori Caucus, University ensconced Maori Academic activists, a much less biased MSM and a Judicial System free of Govt influence.”
      Sadly I think we will be waiting a very long time for what you describe above.
      I don’t see much (any) hope of our governance here developing a more balanced and trustworthy approach any time soon, whoever is “in power”.
      It is all personality driven and the unthinking voters seem to love it – as long as the money keeps flowing – and for some, not even that matters.
      
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      September 11, 2021 10:20am
      - Nickc2
        
        At some point in the not too distant future, other peoples and imagined money is going to run out. What happens then? If for example, we had a clause in our constitution that the nation’s debt was not to exceed X%age of GDP, wouldn’t that curtail outlandish spending eg the Shane Jones slush fund by current and future Finance Ministers.
        We peasants need a constitution to protect us from whimsical behavior from people in power.
        I’m aware NZ has a system that is referred to as our Constitution (see link below) but by decree, it’s tied up in Legal Documents and Courts Practices. It’s not something immediately available to the public.
        We need a separate and enshrined document that can only be changed/amended through public participation.
        https://gg.govt.nz/office-governor-general/roles-and-functions-governor-general/constitutional-role/constitution
        
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        September 11, 2021 10:48am
      - Paulus
        
        Easy future as Robertson showed the other day – just print another $ 41Billion.
        As long as people are washed with cash as currently nothing matters as Ardern knows.
        Am not sure it will end soon, or if more Nirvana as present!
        
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        September 11, 2021 11:29am
    - Bob
      
      Nick2 I guess that we will never ever have the conversation about a Constitution if we wait for changes that fulfil your para one conditions.
      You are quite right about the need for a constitution; the behaviour of this govt has proven that; BUT the civil service is riddles with communists and socialists who are enamoured with the prospect of NIRVANA, and they would comprise the ‘committee’
      
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      September 11, 2021 10:31am
    - Unity
      
      Also, while the Treaty has been reinvented to mean so much more than it ever did, it would be fatal to enshrine the new Treaty into legislation. When more understand what the real Treaty said and how it achieved its aim long ago and also how it should have been consigned to history long ago, then will be the time to look at a Constitution.
      
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      September 11, 2021 11:57am
  - David Garrett
    
    Rocky J: Firstly, it is not strictly correct to say we have no constitution. We do, albeit it is contained in a number of statutes (Such as BORA and the Electoral Act) and conventions. What we don’t have is a written constitution in one document. And neither does Britain.
    
    Secondly, and more importantly, any attempt to come up with a written constitution in the American sense would inevitably involve the fucking Treaty, and the “principles” it supposedly contains or has given rise to. That’s the last thing I want…and unless you are in the camp of the Maori activists you have referred to, I would suggest it is the last thing you would want either.
    
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    September 11, 2021 9:50am
    - surfing
      
      Almost choked on my weetbix when I saw krazykiwi wants to give away our country to the maori. Not that it already hasn’t.
      
      The constitution would be He pua pua.
      
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      September 11, 2021 10:19am
    - RockyJ
      
      Agree David. The problem is that we have a festering unresolved conflict that most people are unwilling to confront. At some point some gutsy politician is going to have to say let’s have referenda on Maori seats (parliament and local authorities) and let’s end the treaty process. Otherwise our freedoms and democracy will be nibbled away.
      I suspect it will take a Trumpian character and the response will not be pretty. Sooner the better.
      
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      September 11, 2021 10:27am
    - gravedodger
      
      Only the one uptick David alas, well stated.
      
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      September 11, 2021 10:35am
    - Nickc2
      
      Yes David, I’ve attempted to describe what our current Constitution is (see my post @ 10:48AM)
      and agree with you, it’s not fit-for-purpose in its present form.
      
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      September 11, 2021 11:02am
    - Unity
      
      Absolutely right David. I should have read your post before I posted mine. It would be fatal to come up with a written Constitution at the moment while so much is wrong involving our reinvented history and not acknowledging the true facts.
      
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      September 11, 2021 11:59am
  - oldfella
    
    Rocky, I think many Maori activists see the treaty as their constitution, and are busy paraphrasing what it says so it only applies to them, not to the non-Maori citizens of this country.
    And by that, I mean NEW ZEALAND.
    
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    September 11, 2021 10:29am
    - Paulus
      
      Some not so old treaty (1840) calls us Nu Tirani
      
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      September 11, 2021 11:32am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    But how do we enforce it?
    Cinders believes taxes are hers to spend. Robbo thinks he has the keys to the Reserve Bank cheque printer.
    Both ignore that Parliament as a whole has the constitutional authority, i.e. sovereignty, over the expenditure for which the people have to ultimately pay for. There is a constitution indirectly transmitted through the Parliament at Westminister. We have an Act adopting some key laws of England back in the 12 c.
    
    Our Courts are reluctant to adjudicate on matters of Crown prerogative. The Governor General likewise ignores HM’s Excutive virtually ignoring their Oath of Loyalty to HM. That only leave the people and the armed forces to bring a govt into line.
    Perhaps the Oppossition should resign in protest and force the issue. MMP was designed to cause trouble.
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:43am
- Dairy Flat
  
  Seriously, only the most dyed in the wool socialists/communists and trolls would down tick this. Happy to lose all your hard fought for rights are you downtickers? Idiots.
  
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  September 11, 2021 8:36am
  - Sacha
    
    I am of the feeling that the sort of people who voted unquestioningly for this government, probably have only the dimmest idea (if any) of the concept of ‘rights’, never mind someone in the past having ‘worked hard for them’.
    Life just ‘is’ – one cay after t he other.
    
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    September 11, 2021 2:23pm
- Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes
  
  listen to the language of Joe Biden, it is tyranny! Same is coming here. https://fb.watch/7Xv7XFldqs/
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:10am
  - RiP NZ
    
    Biden dropped hellfire missiles on innocent civilians to boost his poll numbers.
    He is everything they said Trump was.
    
    Must be a democrat thing
    
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    September 11, 2021 10:22am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Yep, Trump has Solemani killed, Biden kills an aid worker and his entire family including all his children. Media insists Trump is the villain.
      
      This is Biden’s America, nobody now in power cares that they eliminated an innocent bystander because of the narrative. And the rhetoric makes it pretty clear that Biden hates Americans more than the Taliban, classic displacement activity. Shamed and humiliated by the Taliban, he takes it out on people he can, like the person humiliated at work goes home and bashes his partner. Not helped by being a senile old fool in to the angry phase of his dementia.
      
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      September 11, 2021 4:39pm
- stewmar
  
  KK, too long to read
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:14am
  - burt
    
    Would it help you if I wave my hands all over the place and bob my head around around a lot while reading it to you as you sit on the mat?
    
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    September 11, 2021 3:58pm
- Scott
  
  krazy-this is a big topic. I did check out our human rights and freedoms which apparently we are all entitled to. For example according to our government we have these rights –
  “Examples of human rights include civil and political rights such as the right to life and liberty, freedom of expression, equality before the law and the right to be free from discrimination. Social, cultural and economic rights include the right to participate in culture, the right to work, the right to an adequate standard of living and the right to education.”
  https://www.govt.nz/browse/law-crime-and-justice/human-rights-in-nz/human-rights-and-freedoms/
  
  It is interesting to me that in the face of a pandemic all of those rights were taken away. You can’t participate in culture, you can’t work, you can’t go to school, because…. Covid.
  
  So obviously these rights are not worth the paper they are written on if they can be taken away at a press conference one Tuesday afternoon.
  
  I’m not sure that legislation is the answer? Much of what a government does is down to convention. Never before in the history of the country have we ever been locked down. But in the face of a relentless propaganda campaign urging us to be afraid, we consented. We consented again in the last election when we gave Labour an overwhelming majority.
  
  The answer is in hearts and minds. Are you so afraid that you will give up all of your liberties for the illusion of safety? It seems that most New Zealanders will. It seems that most New Zealanders are going along with lockdown and support it.
  Until we value our freedom more than we do then we are going to face this situation whenever there is a national emergency.
  Surely we are better than this? Surely we are braver than this? Surely we are not going to let the government and the mass media rule our lives and our minds?
  Kiwis, isn’t it time to break free from the Covid lockdown mindset and reclaim our freedoms?
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:28am
  - crikey
    
    “… the right to be free from discrimination…”
    
    Sounds like a big clash coming up between the BORA and ToW. This time it’s all the non-Maori being discriminated against.
    
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    September 11, 2021 10:34am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    Absolutely agree.
    
    Now what is the approved medical treatment for people diagnosed with this deadly covid disease?
    
    Please tell me it isn’t go home and wait to die.
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:07am
    - Ed Snack
      
      There is a well developed treatment protocol, MATH+ that works well, but can’t be used in NZ because of political ramifications.
      
      So the narrative is more important than people’s lives. Worth remembering as they force you to wear useless, pointless masks in public and destroy the economy just so they can retain political power and not admit being gullible f***wits.
      
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      September 11, 2021 4:41pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  “All tyrannies rule through fraud and force, but once the fraud is exposed they must rely exclusively on force.”
  
  – George Orwell
  
  ? “Lockdown” is at best completely pointless universal medical isolation and at worst ubiquitous public incarceration.
  
  ? It’s not a “vaccine”, it’s experimental gene therapy.
  
  ? They’re not “vaccine passports”, they’re movement licenses.
  
  Call things what they are, not their euphemisms.
  
  If you allow a digital ID vax passport to be imposed you are agreeing to not being able to travel, dance, dine, or be entertained, etc. without being up to date with whatever the government of the day wants you to comply with.
  
  Jabs today. Meat intake tomorrow? Vehicle type? Exercise? BMI? Alcohol? Political opinion?…
  
  The possibilities are endless for the psychotic authoritarians… ?
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:50am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    The covid fraud is unraveling slowly but surely.
    
    I hope.
    
    The use of force is increasing.
    
    Look at what is happening not only around the world but with our closest Neighbor.
    
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    September 11, 2021 10:56am
    - sooty
      
      Just think how much money could be saved if they stopped the covid passport by Christmas and went straight to a chip in the shoulder for ID.
      
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      September 11, 2021 11:42am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Energy ration cards?
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:44am
- Bevan
  
  And I still don’t believe the Aus police used rubber bullets, your article doesn’t even mention the words.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:50am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    Australia: Police fire rubber bullets and pepper spray into a large crowd of lockdown protesters ?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIoG4ki-glA
    
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    September 11, 2021 10:16am
  - RiP NZ
    
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1480062/melbourne-lockdown-protest-video-violence-covid-latest-vn
    
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    September 11, 2021 10:24am
  - Don Beckett
    
    There were videos of the Victorian police firing rubber bullets, and people showing the wounds they inflicted. That was a week or two back in the mass demonstration in Melbourne. Twitter was alive with it as well.
    
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    September 11, 2021 10:50am
  - Nickc2
    
    Aust Police are the Commonwealth Police. They aren’t permitted to become involved in State Police matters.
    Rubber Bullets were used by Victorian State Police, not Commonwealth Police.
    Don’t blame the Aust Govt for the draconian measures employed by State Premiers.
    BTW, Victoria is a Trade Union-controlled state. Remember, Unions are our current Govt’s funders.
    
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    September 11, 2021 12:54pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Not Aust Police. These are the State of Victoria Police.
    
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    September 11, 2021 12:55pm
  - Observer of Life
    
    Unticked Bevan by accident.
    
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    September 11, 2021 1:52pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I’ve got a suggestion KK.
  Any legislative measure that has been undertaken that you don’t agree with in terms of Covid decisions write to the decision-maker and explain why it was wrong and it what way it has not embraced the Law.
  If they disagree with you and fail to make the change take the decision for Judicial Review.
  That could mean you would be identified, but possibly you could remain anonymous if the Court agreed it was in the public interest or that it was fair that the decision-maker was known whilst its challenger was not.
  What it would do however is test your ideas and theories, the truth and validity of them up to our highest Court.
  So there’s the challenge at your feet to test your commitment or courage.
  
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  September 11, 2021 10:33am
  - paulscott
    
    I agree with you Brian, I couldn’t think of a better person to be in a position of influence than the advanced and rational thinker that KK is. I wish he would involve himself in the dreadful machine of politics and gain that influence that we need to recover from the insane messiah.
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:22am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      I predict he won’t paul.
      But the opportunity remains for someone to take the opportunity. I feel the health authorities would welcome it and the Government would be obliged to reconsider its decisions if the Court considered it necessary.
      Ticking along in the background, however, is the uptake of vaccinations. Apparently now there is 1 case of a vaccinated worker infected with the virus so in real-time NZ is getting a relevant database.
      I think one of the final questions will be does a shut down during which vaccinations soar provide safer results than mass vaccinations while Covid infections are permitted to run unabated?
      With the general debate about the impact on hospital services I think the answer is clear.
      
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      September 11, 2021 12:27pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        The reason. It to is obvious. It will cost and the chance of a successful outcome is around 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 etc.
        
        The bureaucrats allowing a legitimate challenge, about as likely as a politician having the welfare of the general public as a goal.
        
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        September 11, 2021 4:47pm
- Happy1
  
  If /when Foot and Mouth disease comes into the country we would immediately hit it with the elimination strategy. Bugger civil rights. Those who opposed the measures would be dealt with a “whatever it takes” philosophy. No room for refuseniks. All the legislation is in place and ready to go. Does anyone want it repealed?
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:34am
- Happy1
  
  In 1940 London everyone was required to install and use blackout curtains. It wasn’t an individual choice, it was part of the country’s project. It couldn’t be left to the individual to choose as the bombs that the unblacked out window attracted wouldn’t just fall on his house but on the neighbors as well. Like it or not the government has about 90% support. That’s democracy for you. You win some you lose some.
  
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  September 11, 2021 12:03pm
  - frankflintstone
    
    Except that blackout curtains actually worked.
    
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    September 11, 2021 12:56pm
  - Cinematic
    
    What’s the risk profile for a bomb across age groups and health status? Are you comparing apples and oranges perhaps?
    
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    September 11, 2021 3:04pm
krazykiwi

Here’s one for vaccine effectiveness data junkies (Benedict, cmm et al). Public Health England publishes fortnightly technical briefings which contain plenty of interesting data. The latest report has an improvement: –

Public Health England (PHE) published their latest weekly vaccine surveillance report on Thursday. Usually these just summarise other studies so are not particularly interesting, but this week something new appeared that has been widely asked for but elusive: data on cases, hospitalisations and deaths broken down by age and vaccination status.

Although the fortnightly technical briefings on the variants of concern have a breakdown of sequenced Delta cases broken down by vaccination status and into the over-50s and under-50s, this is the first time PHE has published general data on all cases (not just sequenced ones) split up by age and vaccination status.

We can only dream of having this level of transparency in NZ.
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September 11, 2021 8:01am
- cmm
  
  Thanks KK.
  
  My biggest short-term concern with the vaccine is how the expectations have backpedaled in the time they have been around – just 10 months – as we learn more about them and that the hidden negative consequences that might come up in a normal drug trial might not be apparent yet.
  
  We’ve rapidly gone from the story being the CV19 vaccine providing herd immunity (the foundation of eliminadion and Fortress NZ policies) to the point where we say “oh, well, they’re probably better than nothing”.
  
  Well, perhaps they are not better than nothing for most people. Perhaps they interfere with more beneficial natural immunity and should be avoided except for those in the exceptional risk category.
  
  Choosing action is about risk vs reward. The small risk of an untested vaccine made sense when the reward was expected to be large. Now that the reward has dropped off, the risk is less palatable.
  
  Unfortunately the “reward” profile has been changed from medical/data driven to authoritarian: If you don’t get vaccinated then no job/travel/entertainment whatever. That is a pretty sick way to force people into accepting unpalatable risk.
  
  My greater long term concern is around the conflation of vaccines with people like our PRiNZess drawing parallels between highly effective vaccines (MMR etc) and the CV19 vaccine.
  
  This conflation means when people see how badly the CV19 vaccine has performed they are likely to stop getting the really good, well tested, effective vaccines (MMR etc).
  
  Unintended consequences are a bitch and they almost always turn up.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:37am
  - Sacha
    
    I was interested listen to Kim Hill this morning – she was talking to someone about covid, basically he was saying that the vaccine is ‘arguably’ a good thing despite any misgivings one might have.
    Now, in my opinion when an apparent expert uses such qualifiers as ‘arguably’ the case is weakened, because he doesn’t KNOW. My ears pricked up, and I waited for the next qualifier – and there were more of them so I stopped listening.
    But many people would have thought that he really knew that what he was saying, & it was the truth.
    
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    September 11, 2021 2:35pm
    - Sacha
      
      Credit to Kim Hill. She let his statements stand without comment.
      
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      September 11, 2021 2:57pm
- Ed Snack
  
  That review does appear to show that vaccinated people are more likely to catch Covid than unvaccinated (for most age cohorts but not all), but still are less likely to hospitalised or to die.
  
  The variability of the “catch” numbers by age group makes me think that there is a behavioural difference or some other factor not being accounted for. Maybe the vaccinated think they are immune and take fewer precautions ? But given that virtually all the research done on this pretty clearly finds that the standard behavioural interventions such as lockdowns, social distancing, and especially masks, make no detectable difference, I’m not quite sure what that behavioural difference might be.
  
  The hospitalisation and death numbers do back up the Israeli numbers Benedict was quoting from earlier, but are perhaps a little less marked. That is, the vaccinated are about 50% less likely to be hospitalised or die.
  
  And this seems to be very much at odds with the latest US report, I think from the CDC which claims that the unvaccinated are 11 x more likely to catch Covid. This is such a large difference that I am sure there must be other factors at work, it seems unlikely that the virus would act so differently in different places.
  
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  September 11, 2021 10:18am
  - Geothermal
    
    Tucked away on the last page .. mortality due to vaccine . 120,000. Roughly 60,000 for July .. however lives potentially saved over an extrapolated month … 10,000 .. looks like the shot is killing more than it’s saving !
    
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    September 11, 2021 7:13pm
Steve Todd

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
A chance for all you Joe Rogan fans out there to have a laugh at your hero’s expense: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/laughingindisbelief/2021/09/joe-rogan-loses-spotify-deal-and-millions-due-to-ivermectin/.
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September 11, 2021 8:02am
- WaveyDavey
  
  My god it’s another Ivermectin obsessive – are you Batman in drag?
  
  Are you going to pass this one off as “just joking” as well?
  
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  September 11, 2021 8:17am
  - Don Beckett
    
    I was at my doctor yesterday & we spoke about Ivermectin, and he told me it is the same drug used for animals is also given to human for scabies, intestinal worms etc. He has some sheep drench (he has a hobby farm) and allows it to run over his lower arms. He also said that if I wanted he could prescribe 12mg. tablets for me which were available at most pharmacies for the above conditions.
    It can be bought on line from the US in varying sized doses – 3 mg. tabs are the ones recommended for prophylactic use.
    Harmful my arse (if used in the correct doseage – same with any medicine) – they won’t allow you to alter the narrative.
    
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    September 11, 2021 9:26am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Said the same the other day about warfarin (rat poison) being used as a blood thinner
      
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      September 11, 2021 9:35am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Btw, nitroglycerin will not blow your tongue off either
        
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        September 11, 2021 9:42am
      - Don Beckett
        
        True, but gives you really explosive farts. 😉
        
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        September 11, 2021 9:48am
      - Matt Long
        
        I wonder how long until the podium of truth warns against the use of dihydrogen monoxide due to it being used as a feed additive for calves.
        
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        September 11, 2021 11:44am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Matt Long, best ask Sue Kedgley
        
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        September 11, 2021 12:21pm
      - rangitoto
        
        I prefer hydroxylic acid in my tea. I give it to my sheep all the time.
        
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        September 11, 2021 2:55pm
    - James Stephenson
      
      It’s on the World Heath Organisation’s list of essential drugs, and has been around so long that a) it’s side effects are really well understood and b) its patent has expired and it’s cheap as chips.
      
      If, say, you were a massive pharmaceutical company with billions of dollars of potential vaccine sales on the line, where might you direct your lobbying efforts?
      
      Rogan isn’t the only high-profile person to have their doctors include the drug as part of a “chuck the kitchen sink at it” strategy which has proved quick and successful. Anecdotal for sure, but it obviously isn’t making things worse.
      
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      September 11, 2021 10:25am
      - Sacha
        
        The data is being assembled, and there are several recent discussions on YouTube about the effects of using Ivermectin as a preventative, and for successfully treating mildly ill cases, whether vaccinated or not.
        Apparently, if an asymptomatic person has a positive swab culture (as opposed to the increasingly discredited PCR test – False positives, anyone?), and commence Ivermectin, all traces of the virus in the body disappear in 3-4 days – but some people with the dreaded co-morbidities don’t respond so well, and the vaccine doesn’t help them so they need to be treated for the complications with other more specific drugs in a hospital.
        Which makes me wonder: what treatment protocol is being applied to the patients in the 2 covid isolation wards at Greenlane Hospital? Are +ve people in MIQ getting any treatment?
        
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        September 11, 2021 2:54pm
    - RiP NZ
      
      ‘In 2015, the Nobel Committee for Physiology or Medicine, in its only award for treatments of infectious diseases since six decades prior, honoured the discovery of ivermectin (IVM), a multifaceted drug deployed against some of the world’s most devastating tropical diseases.’
      
      They wont tell you this in the narratives either.
      
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      September 11, 2021 10:26am
    - paulscott
      
      [Deleted – don’t pass off as qualified to give medical advice here. Your advice is incorrect. Mod.]
      
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      September 11, 2021 11:32am
  - cmm
    
    All the people talking about “horse pills” are fools.
    
    Many drugs have purposes outside of their medical use.
    
    Even more drugs are used off-label (ie. for purposes other than what they are approved for). IIRC, something like 40% of the drugs prescribed for children in NZ are off-label.
    
    Yet, the people were losing their shit over HCQ being unapproved. Whether or not HCQ works is one thing, but it is certainly not a dangerous drug. There are hundreds of millions of doses prescribed for malaria every year.
    
    Sidebar: Yes, HCQ, like all drugs, has potential side effects. However, these are very well understood and thus the drug is safe so long as the person prescribing them knows what they are doing.
    
    Warfarin, one of the more common heart meds, was created as, and is still used as, rat poison.
    
    Go on stupid “horse pill” people, have a snigger at your GP/cardiologist handing out rat poison!
    
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    September 11, 2021 9:47am
    - Steve Todd
      
      zzzzzzzzz. Come on, cmm. Lighten up. It was satire!!
      
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      September 11, 2021 10:27am
      - cmm
        
        Maybe yours was (I don’t care either way), but the general reporting/commentary on “horse pills” has not been satire and my comment was really about the general reporting than what you specifically said.
        
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        September 11, 2021 10:53am
      - Frank the tank
        
        Correction it’s trolling dressed up as satire. And a poor effort at that.
        
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        September 11, 2021 12:08pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @cmm @ 10:53AM
        
        I didn’t specifically say anything.
        
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        September 11, 2021 12:14pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @ Frank the tank @ 12:08PM
        
        The term “trolling” is far too loosely used on Kiwiblog.
        
        Here is DPF’s definition—
        
        “Trolling
        
        “Trolling is an attempt to deliberately disrupt a conversation by being grossly offensive or massively off topic.
        
        “Comments on a post should be a response to the topic of the post. While some thread drift is inevitable, do not try to divert the thread into another topic. Use the daily General Debate for other topics.”
        
        Point out to me, Frank, where my 8:38AM post contravenes this definition. In doing so, explain why the many posts (with videos) put up by the likes of Steve Otto, for example, making fun of the Left / Lefties — “off to the basement, lefties” — do not constitute trolling.
        
        I did exactly as DPF wants — I used “the daily General Debate” to put up a new post, unrelated to any other topic.
        
        Now, I place DPF on the centre-right of politics. Therefore, by your implied definition of “trolling”, anyone putting up a non-centre-right comment is trolling. Gosh, were that the case, only the excellent Wayne Mapp would ever be able to comment here!
        
        Of course, the reality is, Kiwiblog was commandeered almost, if not actually, from Day One by those to the right of centre-right, who claimed it as their own. Since then, anyone putting up a comment deemed to be to the left of what they consider acceptable, is denigrated, mocked, rubbished, and written off as a troll.
        
        As I have said, repeatedly, over the last eight years, DPF welcomes alternative points of view being expressed here. See https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/03/kiwiblog_content_and_comments.html, That guest post, where he says, “[…]. The thing I like on Kiwiblog is that we have people who comment from across the political spectrum. Views get challenged. My views get challenged every day by commenters.”
        
        So, Frank, not only am I not a troll, but I have never trolled on Kiwiblog. Every single one of my 5,000 or so comments has been accepted here, without deletions or other amendment by the Moderators.
        
        As I said to you yesterday, I will continue to participate here whether you like it or not. Don’t like it, jog on.
        
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        September 11, 2021 1:09pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Just to be clear, I meant to say: Point out to me, Frank, where my 8:02AM post contravenes this definition.
        
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        September 11, 2021 2:05pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Many drugs have alternate uses. Years ago I had disection and fusion in my neck. I was giver some anti psychotic medication that had a side effect of healing nerve root damage. No, I was not mad!
      
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      September 11, 2021 11:06am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Amiltriptyline
        
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        September 11, 2021 11:10am
      - marcw
        
        Probably Tegretol – it’s used less often now as it has been superceded by Gabapentin, a much more effective newer alternative.
        
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        September 11, 2021 11:17am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      Warfarin is an anticoagulant; not a poison in terms of toxicity.
      
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      September 11, 2021 5:23pm
- Andrei
  
  I guess his major crime was getting Covid-19 and then getting better in three days.
  
  A clear danger to the narrative
  
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  September 11, 2021 8:24am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    It would be interesting to know the ethnicities of the morons who have escaped from MIQ and the hospitals. Reading between the lines of the info released it would appear very few are WhiteMother……
    
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    September 11, 2021 9:23am
  - paulscott
    
    Andrei [ 8.24] Hundreds of cases here in Bangkok returning to near normal in a week or so, 3 days plus mostly. I have literally overheard the drop off of fear here coming through the girl’s cell phone. They ring each other and find out the truth. > Reality is like oil on to water and rises to the top < < Sancho Panza c. 1598
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:38am
- harvey wilson
  
  You know that’s a satirical website and he didn’t actually lose the Spotify deal right ?
  Oh you don’t? Well this is awkward then isn’t it .
  
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  September 11, 2021 8:28am
  - Steve Todd
    
    Oh, dear. Yes, harvey, I’m fully aware of that. I’ve been enjoying the site for quite some time now. (See https://www.patheos.com/blogs/laughingindisbelief/is-this-satire/.)
    
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    September 11, 2021 8:53am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      As predicted the “I was only joking defence”
      
      “Only joking” Yeah. Right – egg on face in reality
      
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      September 11, 2021 9:41am
    - Ed Snack
      
      I’d advise the owner of that website not to give up his day job. As satire, it is little more than political hits disguised as “satire”.
      
      The Babylon Bee does it far better.
      
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      September 11, 2021 10:23am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Therein lies the problem, the Left have turned Satire into Reality.
    It’s just so frickin’ hard to tell now…???
    
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    September 11, 2021 9:12am
- Charmaine Hawke
  
  So you went to the left wing Babylon Bee and you call us idiots. Fake news https://www.sportskeeda.com/mma/news-joe-rogan-loses-spotify-has-ufc-commentator-lost-100-million-deal
  
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  September 11, 2021 8:37am
  - kevn
    
    @Char… Yep, pathetic isn’t he? stodd not Rogan.
    
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    September 11, 2021 9:03am
    - Steve Todd
      
      No sense of humour, kevn? See my response to youcanthandlethetruth, below.
      
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      September 11, 2021 10:00am
  - Steve Todd
    
    No, Charmaine. Laughing in Disbelief is hosted by Patheos, the website where I access atheist blogs that I sometimes like to bring to the attention of Kiwibloggers.
    
    I don’t access Babylon Bee; I have no interest in it.
    
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    September 11, 2021 9:11am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    The left can’t do funny. Too pompous and uptight.
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:00am
    - oldfella
      
      Has SNL even come up with any hard-hitting Joe Biden jokes yet? Like their writing team churned out week after week throughout the Trump presidency?
      
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      September 11, 2021 4:43pm
- youcanthandlethetruth
  
  I couldn’t find anything to back this up
  
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  September 11, 2021 8:38am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    You won’t – it’s another dimwit googling a and finding a headline that suits what they were looking for but not actually bothering to read the article
    
    Don’t worry, it’ll be followed by a Batty-Boy style rationale – “I knew all along. I was just trolling you”
    
    Two days running Toddy has used the same satirical (if you say so) site to justify his nonsense
    
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    September 11, 2021 8:49am
  - Steve Todd
    
    truth: as you now know, it’s satire, a bit of fun. There are clues to this in the article — e.g., Rogan’s lawyers … are insisting [that he] is, in fact, an idiot of legendary proportions [and] Mr. Rogan agrees, “I am a … moron.” — and all over the site.
    
    Scroll down and check out some of the related posts. Read some of the comments.
    
    Obviously, I knew it would go down like a cup of cold sick here, but, for me, that was part of the enjoyment. I anticipated seeing evidence that there are Kiwibloggers who only have a sense of humour when the subject of the joke is “left-wing”, and, right on cue, along came that evidence. It’s hilarious!
    
    In this regard, let me apologise for not being in the same league, or as clever, or subtle, with my humour, as the great, unmatched, mikenmildagain.
    
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    September 11, 2021 9:50am
    - Frank the tank
      
      Keep digging Stev-o you might get to China soon champ.
      
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      September 11, 2021 12:09pm
- Liberal Cliche
  
  You max vaxed are becoming increasingly more nasty.
  
  Have you had your morning booster shot?
  
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  September 11, 2021 8:44am
  - Ra Henare
    
    haha max vaxed.
    
    I have had 4 jabs. 2 Sino, 2 fizzer
    Rather than becoming more nasty, I suspect I am more sanguine on things covid.
    
    Maybe I have transended max vax and moved to ultra vax???
    
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    September 11, 2021 12:02pm
    - MCos
      
      Sounds like an eighties boy band.
      
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      September 11, 2021 12:38pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        That’s way too close to being true to be anything but funny !
        
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        September 11, 2021 5:33pm
- emmess
  
  Steve Todd, glad to see you support corporate fascism.
  I think Spotify need Rogan more than he needs them.
  He has more than enough ‘fuck you’ money as he calls it. And his health is obviously more important to him that his wealth.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:39am
- Wired-one
  
  He’s the most popular Podcaster in the world, is worth in excess of $100 million dollars and will be watched and listened to wherever he goes. Yeah, poor Joe…
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:48am
- David George
  
  You do realise that’s a wind up Steve?
  
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  September 11, 2021 10:37am
  - Steve Todd
    
    Groan. Yes, David, I do. See above.
    
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    September 11, 2021 1:16pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  That some defence he’s got being an “idiot and a moron.” Maybe he’s not the poster child for ivermectin after all.
  
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  September 11, 2021 12:32pm
  - zulumonster
    
    It’s satire – his defence is the truth. What’s yours?
    
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    September 11, 2021 3:10pm
artemisia

Not sure that in these straitened times Richard Benge of Arts Access Aotearoa and Pascale Parenteau from the Royal New Zealand Ballet have read the room correctly about art programmes in prisons. Apart from reading the taxpayer funding room, that is.

Major gaps with arts programmes in prisons, despite value – report …. Parenteau said …. Corrections needed to give genuine support, including funding, to the arts–as opposed to lip service. “There’s never any talk of budget or money. There’s always talk about volunteers,” she said.

My reading of the room is that literacy education, work experience and meeting employer expectations is a way better use of funding.

Did I mention taxpayers?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/126308097/major-gaps-with-arts-programmes-in-prisons-despite-value–report
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September 11, 2021 8:06am
Maggy Wassilieff

Someone took their eye off the ball…and that’s why you folks in Auckland are still in lockdown.

On Sunday, Bloomfield told Newsroom pre-departure testing was one of those layers and since the requirement had been introduced at the border there had been a reduction in the number of positive Covid cases being picked up on day one testing.

If it’s good enough for those returning from the United Kingdom, the United States, and just about every other country in the world, how it wasn’t good enough for Delta-ridden New South Wales is baffling.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/lack-of-pre-flight-testing-reckless-in-delta-world

But watch the narrative change…
It will be all OUR fault that Auckland continues to be in Lockdown 4.
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September 11, 2021 8:08am
- Inandout
  
  Maggy, read between the lines. Blaming the entire nation means level 2.5 remains for even Gore. Letting non Aucklanders return to relative freedom is letting go of control. The masked sheep seen wandering around like lost souls are a message from Jacinda; don’t even dare to unmask in a shop.
  
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  September 11, 2021 8:18am
- WaveyDavey
  
  Yeah I did wonder about the lack of pre-flight testing
  
  I had to do it when I returned from Queensland – a state with SFA Covid then and now – and it wasn’t exactly difficult to get tested
  
  The current threat, from the Podium of Truth, is that if Aucklanders don’t get tested in big enough numbers levels won’t be changing
  
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  September 11, 2021 8:19am
- Ra Henare
  
  Meanwhile out in the real world.
  Taiwan, often held up as a gold standard (July 2021)
  
  In the light of high infectious risk of Delta variant, starting 12pm July 2, 2021, all travelers are required to process “2 1” times of Covid-19 test: (a) first PCR test upon arrival of Taiwan (b) Rapid Covid-19 test during 10th-12nd day of quarantine (c) one more Covid-19 PCR test by the end of quarantine.
  
  All International travelers arrive from high-risk countries of Delta variant: Brazil (Gamma Variant), India, UK, Peru, Israel, Indonesia and Bangladesh are still mandated to stay at concentrated quarantine stations for 14 days. International travelers from other countries, shall be staying only at quarantine hotels or concentrated quarantine stations on their own expenses for 14 days.
  
  Singapore. various controls dependant on country of origin, citizenship etc.
  But run of the mill
  PCR on arrival and
  (a) self-administer Antigen Rapid Tests on Days 3, 7 and 11 of arrival ($40 including GST), and (b) take a COVID-19 PCR test ($125 including GST) on Day 14 of SHN.
  
  But good old NZ knows better and has its own rules. ALL PCR tests which need to be administered by nurses, yep screaming shortage of nurses hence limited numbers of MIQ rooms. Duh
  
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  September 11, 2021 8:35am
- JibberJabber
  
  Yes, I mentioned the other day the Queen of the Branch Covidians has determined that Aucklanders have sinned, despite the fact that it was her mentor that called her and insisted one of the diseased Elites was to be flown to Auckland from Fiji.
  Yet guess what? The source of the outbreak cannot be traced, imagine that?
  And the Covid Mary deflector sent to the Coromandel failed to infect anyone.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:20am
  - oldfella
    
    JJ, still can’t find anyone who knows what happened to that UN elite with Covid who was flown to Auckland. Did they die? Did they recover? It was a big story at the time, then strangely… vanished.
    Time to ask Cindy or Ash at one of their Pulpit of Truth standups.
    
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    September 11, 2021 10:44am
    - sooty
      
      Probably recovering at Helen’s while waiting for their flight after been released!
      
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      September 11, 2021 11:53am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Jo Moir from Newsroom has been relentless in pursuing the PM, Bloomfield and Hipkins on this. She’s done an excellent job.
  
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  September 11, 2021 10:13am
- Observer of Life
  
  I don’t watch the daily stand ups at the Podium of Truth. But someone has told me the government is whingeing that there’s not enough testing going on in AKL, therefore they’re keeping us locked down longer. So at one point we’re told don’t get tested unless you’re feeling unwell. And now they’re saying get tested regardless? Tell me I’ve been misinformed!! ?
  
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  September 11, 2021 2:06pm
TripeWryter

Last evening I listened to a radio interview that I found deeply upsetting.
It was brief – perhaps two minutes all up.
The interviewee was an elderly, resentful, and defensive Maori, a kaumatua of Ngati Kahungunu.
The interviewer was Heather du Plessis-Allan. She addressed him respectfully as ‘Matua’.
The interview was about the little Maori girl whom Oranga Tamariki and the iwi want to remove from her pakeha foster parents of three years for ‘cultural’ reasons.
The story has been covered by stuff so I won’t rehash it here.
But du Plessis-Allan asked him if he cared about the child. About her welfare. About her.
He could not – or would not – answer that he did.
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September 11, 2021 8:13am
- Observer of Life
  
  Tripe: That is so very sad. How could any sensible person not put the child’s happiness and well-being front and centre. It explains a lot of what is wrong in NZ.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:38am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    The righteous race warriors feel justified in damaging kids to ‘save’ them.
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:03am
Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left

Questions left from the Dr Wiles incident.
When will the media really attack this story…surely they can investigate if that really is a bubble?
Why wasn’t my bubble allowed to chill at the beach?
Why would Dr Bloomfield even attempt to justify it…are the media really going to let that piece of partisanship slide?……and what is the new level 4 definition of swimming?
Are the left of NZ really too stupid to know the term “big fat hypocrite/liar”…..the mental gymnastics by the likes of Neale Jones and Dr Wiles twitter followers is astounding.
On that topic..why does Jones say on his twitter he is a former Labour Advisor….surely someone is still paying him for his blatant attacks on the opposition. ..how else would he earn money?
Could you imagine how all of this would go down if Dr Wiles was a friend and mouthpiece of National…oh my
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September 11, 2021 8:15am
- Cinematic
  
  Love the pathetic attempts to claim that term is ‘fat shaming’. Sooooo lame.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:48am
- MCos
  
  There’s a beach, of sorts, at the end of my street. Plenty of people walk along there & sit on the grass.
  At the other end of the street is Mt Mangere. There’s a number of people wandering around up there too.
  As long as you keep your distance from other bubbles it’s not an issue.
  I’ve also seen police cars cruising around. They don’t seem too fussed.
  It’s normal to see plenty of police around the mean streets of Mangere Bridge, but that’s when the bakeries are open.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:56am
  - Mrs_Right
    
    If you look at the photo you can see her sitting right next to her friend. No 2m distancing, nothing.
    
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    September 11, 2021 8:55pm
- Nickc2
  
  Bubbles get blown around by the wind (fact). That’s a defence for you!
  
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  September 11, 2021 10:13am
kowtow

The Weekend Herald editorial has a go at Seymour for posting the access code and quote the late great Ronald Reagan ” If you’re explaining ,you’re losing”.

A few pages over is an excellent piece by Bruce Cotteril under the heading ” Any risk of media being in Govt’s pocket is a danger to democracy”

In the middle of his piece is a highlighted box wherein the editors of NZME and NZ Herald declaim how ‘proudly independent’ they are .

Yep , explaining is losing.
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September 11, 2021 8:20am
- yossarian
  
  This may give them food for thought…
  
  https://mediabias.co.nz/
  
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  September 11, 2021 10:35am
  - Fletch
    
    I knew NewsHub would be one of the worst. One only has to check their Facebook feed. Bunch of rabid leftists.
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:42am
  - ecco
    
    That site obviously doesn’t put any weighting on which articles are hidden behind a paywall as nzh does. Have you ever seen a right leaning article not hidden behind nzh paywall? Nzh is a mouthpiece for Ardern. As is the stuff site.
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:42pm
- Bob
  
  If you’re explaining ,you’re losing”….
  From my old stale male experience, whenever I have been explaining something, I have noted that some people have been receptive, others haven’t. The ones who weren’t receptive were “losing”, not me, because at the end of the day I was still better informed than they were.
  
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  September 11, 2021 10:42am
  - thirteenstars
    
    Dead right. Those of us who have done a little in-person defending of our positions know too well that you’re rarely speaking to your critics but to the quiet onlookers who often walk away with a new perspective. It’s amazing how many people you can convert when you’re not trying to convert them.
    
    Explaining is losing is a political trope that only pertains to those who are obviously covering their own asses.
    
    Seymour used his explanation as an opportunity to ram the message home.
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:32am
Benedict Yu

The reaction to this court decision by these Maori activists is revealing.

“Earlier on Friday Ngāti Kahungunu leader Ngahiwi Tomoana said Māori children must be with Māori caregivers and he would support an appeal.”….

““If the state was giving Pākehā children to Māori families there’d be a hell of a hue and cry about it,” he said.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/126341067/oranga-tamariki-decision-to-be-appealed-by-birth-mother

Well no. If the state was giving white children to dysfunctional Maori families maybe, but that would hopefully not happen.

I find this revealed racism fascinating. Would I be screaming about an abandoned Chinese girl being adopted by white parents? Of course not. Why? Because education, safety, and high quality parenting will produce a high functioning child who can explore her birth culture in her own time.

It will be very troubling if this appeal is successful. And if it fails I guarantee that these folk will lobby the government to change the law. In fact based on their track record it would not surprise me if Ministers are already on to it.
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September 11, 2021 8:22am
- alex Masterley
  
  It is disappointing that the birth mother is appealing.
  She seems to forget that the interests of the child are paramount, not those of the parents.
  It is sad that the child is becoming a plaything of those with agendas that do not involve the childs welfare.
  I did a quick backgrounder on her lawyer. She looses more than she wins.
  
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  September 11, 2021 8:26am
  - artemisia
    
    The birth mother is appealing because she has standing. And talking of ‘standing’ who are those behind her and do they have an agenda other than follow the money? Answers on the back of a postage stamp if anyone can find one.
    
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    September 11, 2021 8:30am
  - sooty
    
    If the mother is on legal aid for a lawyer,
    Why would she choose a dud one?
    
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    September 11, 2021 8:36am
    - kevn
      
      @sooty… Tribal connection.
      
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      September 11, 2021 9:07am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    I have read about the birth mother. to say she is appealing is wrong, in my opinion. I think she would be abhorrent.
    
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    September 11, 2021 8:42am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The child has been removed 3 times from the mother.
    At least one other sibling has been placed away from the mother.
    
    Moana, one of four siblings, had been removed from her mother three times in the first three years of her life. Her mother was pregnant with a fifth child when Moana and her brother, a few years older, were removed from her care.
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300366864/oranga-tamariki-wants-girl-removed-from-couple-after-three-years-because-it-says-her-cultural-needs-are-unmet
    
    There have been years when the Iwi could have provided wrap-around services to this mother.
    
    Now the child has become a pawn in a very nasty grab for the control and $$$$ of Oranga Tamariki.
    
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    September 11, 2021 10:29am
    - sooty
      
      So if the mother is just a baby factory, what happens to to her benefit after the child is moved?
      
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      September 11, 2021 12:02pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Great preliminary assessment by the Judge.
      
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      September 11, 2021 12:58pm
- Cinematic
  
  I find it highly unlikely an appeal will be made. This was a crushing judgement. The appellant will need to find errors in the judgement and good luck with that. This isn’t a complicated area of law and that judge would have been highly motivated to deliver a watertight ruling.
  
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  September 11, 2021 8:32am
- KevO'Brien
  
  There is a solution, a bit Solomomic: physically partition the subject children according to their ethnicities. A little messy but there wouldn’t be any argument subsequently.
  
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  September 11, 2021 8:46am
  - Ruawai
    
    Bit tricky once there are mixed race children.
    
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    September 11, 2021 9:18am
    - cmm
      
      That was Kev’s point.
      Pretty much all Maori are mixed race.
      
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      September 11, 2021 9:56am
      - crikey
        
        “Pretty much all Maori are mixed race.”
        
        ALL Maori are mixed race. Fixed it for ya.
        
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        September 11, 2021 10:45am
- I will not surrender
  
  I suspect a lot of it is due to resentment over the gene pool lottery / lucky sperm club from various parts of the spectrum.
  
  It is natural to not worry about it if you are one of the lucky ones, but there are the loud & leftard ones who feel the white fella should feel guilty because of it. On the other side, some maoris resent it.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:17am
CAKE FACE1

A super funny article from Labour lickspittle Luke Malpass:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/126335387/covid19-the-political-class-all-agrees-on-covid–and-thats-a-problem

“But it will be clear by the end of this lockdown, especially in Auckland, that lockdowns cannot continue.”

He gets that right, but his conclusion is a typical stinker:

“The problem comes from Judith Collins. Shortly after she was elected leader, she declared she also had “zero-tolerance” for Covid-19.”

The Zero Covid nut job conspiracy cult comes from Collins!

Our media is insane…
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September 11, 2021 8:27am
- Cinematic
  
  I agree that the Collins led opposition needed to take an alternative position on covid. They still need to. Currently they offer nothing different.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:04am
slightlyrighty

So.. do you trust the MoH to manage a Covid Outbreak in New Zealand?

A facebook Friend just got an alert saying that he may have been a contact from an exposure that took place on the 27th of August, and that he should monitor his health until the 10th of September.

He was notified on the 11th of September.
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September 11, 2021 8:28am
- Ruawai
  
  I also had a friend who was notified about a place of interest 12 days after being there.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:20am
- cmm
  
  This is what you get when an activist designs a system.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:57am
- alex Masterley
  
  There was a recent piece in the Herald about a similar situation.
  I commented that it did not cast the MOH in a very good light. And i suggested that proper prior planning was not something MOH was good at.
  Boy, did I cop a mouthful from a family member who works in that department.
  My opinion despite that remains the same.
  
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  September 11, 2021 10:29am
doggone7

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Siouxsie Wiles said, “everyone’s nerves are fraying a bit.”

She said it was “disappointing” to have mistruths spread about her, but it was understandable people were feeling on edge at the moment.

Snap! Summed it up. Judith Collins is feeling on edge and the pressure showed in her judgement with the way she used Cameron Slater’s hit job on Wiles.

Canny politicos will be wondering what she hoped to achieve.
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September 11, 2021 8:28am
- KevO'Brien
  
  What do you hope to achieve. Judith Collins will overtake the Cinders in the ashcan.
  
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  September 11, 2021 8:50am
  - doggone7
    
    But what did Collins want to achieve?
    
    I appreciate this might not be the right place to ask that but there must be sage, experienced, considered, objective National people who care about the party who today are saying, “What the hell was that about? What exactly was Judith trying to achieve?”
    
    Toby Manhire compliments Collins for some of her efforts lately but also seems puzzled.
    
    https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/10-09-2021/new-zealand-urgently-needs-a-serious-opposition-leader/
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:41am
    - curry4me
      
      doggone7: It already has one. David Seymour.
      
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      September 11, 2021 12:13pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      HM’s Opposition is not presently permissible in this State. The PM won’t tolerate it and the media have been paid to put any such down.
      Instructions are awaited from her international controllers.
      
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      September 11, 2021 4:39pm
- artemisia
  
  Very strange interview with HDPA yesterday. Dr Wiles giggled and chuckled. A lot. Sounds like she was the stressed and nervous one.
  
  HDPA asked her audience’s opinion afterwards, making her own extreme scepticsm abundantly clear.
  
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  September 11, 2021 8:51am
- Liberal Cliche
  
  She said she invited her friend to her home, but she wasn’t at home and her excuse is “the beach was deserted”
  
  Did everyone desert the beach so she can go walk on it mask free?
  
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  September 11, 2021 8:58am
  - Don Beckett
    
    No, they were afraid of the sea-level rise when she entered the water. 😉
    
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    September 11, 2021 9:54am
  - lifesgood
    
    Liar,liar, pants on fire. It wasn’t deserted. In the small frame of the photo there is very clearly a man and his dog close by. No doubt others were out of shot. You really can’t believe a word she says. O K folks, according to Ashley we can all meet friends at the beach and go for a swim if we like. If the cops attack just use Siouxsie as the test case.
    
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    September 11, 2021 9:57am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Just wear a pink wig and the cops will know to give you a pass. In most of the animal kingdom garrish bright colouring is a declaration of toxicity.
      
      15 2
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      September 11, 2021 11:08am
    - curry4me
      
      lifesgood: She’s lucky there were no Norwegian, or Japanese trawlers offshore. Another half hour, and Green lies would have had volunteers pouring sea water over her, and digging a channel to the open sea. And local Iwi wanting her jaw bone.
      
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      September 11, 2021 12:15pm
- Jack5
  
  The Herald grovels for Wiles.
  
  It calls Dr Wiles both “one of New Zealand’s top microbiologists” and “the top microbiologist”.
  
  Wiles and her sidekick, 60,000-dead Hendy, followed the Covid forecasting of the discredited English scientist, Neil Ferguson.
  
  Apart from Ferguson’s flawed work being attacked or exposed, Ferguson broke Covid lockdown rules he contributed to being introduced.
  
  Ferguson’s hypocrisy was more embarrassing than Siouxsie’s swim:
  
  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8289921/Scientist-advice-led-lockdown-QUITS-breaking-restrictions-meet-married-lover.html
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:00am
  - Taieri
    
    Expression the “top microbiologist” implies that there’re also “bottom microbiologists”. Wonder who they’re?
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:22am
    - Spoff
      
      They’re called Proctologists.
      
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      September 11, 2021 1:32pm
- Cinematic
  
  It would be helpful if Wiles could name these mistruths? Aside from Ashley’s, frankly bizarre claim no one was swimming I haven’t seen any effort to do so.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:07am
- Ruawai
  
  Judith should have just calmly pointed out that Wiles didn’t follow rules in the same way David Clarke didn’t.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:21am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Here’s what Dr Wiles told Radio NZ on 18 August 2021:
    
    During the first nationwide lockdown, people were seen socialising two metres apart from one another when out of the house.
    
    Microbiologist associate professor Dr Siouxsie Wiles told Nine to Noon, with new knowledge that Covid-19 is airborne, that’s no longer something safe to do.
    
    Please don’t go out and chat with a friend while you are out, Wiles said.
    
    “Don’t hang around and have a chat, connect in other ways. We’ve got phones, we’ve got Skype, we’ve got Zoom…we need to physically disconnect for a little while,” she said.
    
    “Stay away from people.”
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/449441/covid-19-stay-away-from-people-when-you-re-out-of-your-house-warns-siouxsie-wiles
    
    Is it any wonder she’s being accused of hypocrisy, with or without the labels?
    
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    September 11, 2021 9:59am
    - Ed Snack
      
      And of course she’s actually lying, quite probably deliberately so, about Covid being transmitted by out of doors conversations. There’s very little evidence of any outdoors transmission of Covid, even at crowded events.
      
      Quite why she seems to need to keep people isolated from their friends and community, I’m not sure.
      
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      September 11, 2021 10:29am
- surfing
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Collins lost votes here. People don’t like Slater’s bully boy tactics, yet Collins teamed up with him….. and she has gone on a hysterical rant. Women shrieking at other women never looks pleasant.
  
  This is an ugly scene for Collins. Even if Wiles was in the wrong, what political advantage was there for Collins here? Wiles is a nobody in my view.
  
  It is even worse that Wiles is in the right too. Kiwibloggers are very angry that wiles cycled 5km, which is allowed, and that Wiles was with her bubble mate, which is also allowed.
  
  Kiwibloggers look silly, because they made false accusations and also because they won’t accept they are wrong.
  
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  September 11, 2021 10:09am
  - kowtow
    
    Blofeld looks sillier , declaring that swimming isn’t swimming. Wonder what that does for his credibility.
    
    Chatting and wading are not allowed , that’s not exercise , that’s taking the piss.
    
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    September 11, 2021 10:58am
  - oldfella
    
    One of the big questions is: does Wiles bubble friend live alone? If not, Wiles has flouted the rules.
    It’s okay, I’m sure some enterprising journo will pop by the friend’s house any second now to check.
    You know, real, solid, shoe leather journalism. What they call ‘door stopping’. (Yeah, right.)
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:06am
    - ecco
      
      Why not the police investigate this? How much evidence do they need?
      
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      September 11, 2021 11:51pm
  - lifesgood
    
    Does Wiles live alone? If not she has no right to be in a bubble with anyone else. Surfer, your Jacinda fandom is blatantly obvious. Collins was right Wiles is a big fat hypocrite. Do you actually know what an hysterical rant is as a matter of interest? I believe Jacinda is quite good at them away from the cameras.
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:23am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      According to her Wikipedia profile, Dr Wiles is married, with a daughter.
      
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      September 11, 2021 2:29pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Wiles is a nobody in my view.
    
    But that’s the point, surfing.
    
    Professor Siouxsie Wiles is not a nobody.
    
    She is NZ’s best known Science communicator.
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:32am
    - sooty
      
      No! She is Cindy’s science commentator!
      
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      September 11, 2021 12:15pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Not to say NZer of the Year.
      
      Not mine, though
      
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      September 11, 2021 6:43pm
- Isobar
  
  What i don’t see is the political advantage here. Collins backing this is not going to win her votes.
  
  Susie is not a part of the govt response, she is not an mp so it seems strange that this hit job was run like it they were one of Slaters political enemies.
  
  It looks like she wasn’t even breaking any of the rules for level 4. Remember masks are not mandatory, though recommended.
  
  Whilst sure she was caught with a friend that made a relatively low level offence, its hardly the stuff that will bring down anyone. I think Slater has missed the mark here, because honestly nothing will change as a result of this hit job.
  
  Collins political judgement is also once again missing. Why is she associating herself with slater so publicly? She’s not going to benefit politically. I honestly think Collins minders are either incompetent or stupid, maybe even members of the Labour party because she is doing everything she can to hand Labour another solid victory in 2023.
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:57am
  - gump
    
    The main thing we’ve learned from Collins publicly attacking Wiles is that Judith is clearly still talking to Cam Slater.
    
    Does she not understand the tremendous damage that the Slater family has done to the National party in recent years? Seriously?
    
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    September 11, 2021 1:21pm
Harriet

Happy Birthday David. 😎
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September 11, 2021 8:31am
- Mobile Michael
  
  Yes, happy birthday DPF!
  
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  September 11, 2021 8:58am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Happy birthday DPF; just eleven years until you get the Gold Card 😀
  
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  September 11, 2021 10:00am
  - oldfella
    
    Tony, I was driving along with Mrs Oldfella a few weeks back and turned on the radio to find Peter Williams interviewing DPF.
    After a minute or so of trying to recognise the voice, Mrs O finally turned to me and said: ‘Why is Peter talking to Trevor Mallard?’
    Anyway, have a good day, David.
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:11am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Oh, that’s harsh!
      
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      September 11, 2021 2:30pm
KH

Knighthood for Judge Callinicos please.
He stood for a little girl against the political agendas of the powerful.
A New Zealander who must be honoured.
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September 11, 2021 8:40am
- oldfella
  
  KH: how about ‘2022 New Zealander of the Year’?
  Hey, if pink-hair can get it, Judge Callinicos should be a shoe-in. /s
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:13am
I remember when

Once again the media have decided to give us their opinion, rather than doing some research and providing some facts.
Ministry of Health/Covid-19: Vaccine data:
This site has a graph , showing all DHBs, showing relativity of Maori/PI vaccination rates to non-Maori.
The graph shows that the Maori 65+ and 50-64 age groups, are much closer to non-Maori rates than we are lead to believe.
In the 50-64 age group they even exceed the National figure for non-Maori for those having had 2 doses.
Only in those 49 and under do the figures start falling away. Obviously, Maori in this category do not consider it a high priority.
Pacific Island results are even more of a surprise, with the figures for some regions being exceptional.
It has been suggested that ‘overstayers’ will be reluctant to come forward and this may be more prevalent in Auckland.
The Auckland figures do lag behind many other DHBs.
See More/Seymour – no contest.
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September 11, 2021 8:42am
lazza

A head up bum down “Beast” Brodie Retallick, leading the All Blacks. Legend.
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September 11, 2021 8:43am
- Cinematic
  
  Huge engine. Freakish work rate.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:59am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    And a bloke who plays his best rugby when wearing the All Black jersey; congratulations to the Big Guzzler!
    
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    September 11, 2021 10:04am
    - gravedodger
      
      Not forgetting North Canterbury, Amberley I think , born and bred, I know his locking mate Sam Whitelock Fielding, but His Mum was Culverden, again N Canty bred. Cheers Tony.
      
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      September 11, 2021 12:33pm
      - Tony Stuart
        
        I used to referee Sam’s dad Braeden, who was a PN High School Old Boys and Manawatu stalwart. He was another tough and uncompromising rooster.
        
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        September 11, 2021 2:32pm
- surfing
  
  Watching the All Blacks is a pleasant distraction to lockdown for sure.
  
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  September 11, 2021 10:10am
  - ABS4EVA
    
    I boycott is because of religious bigotry against Christians
    
    1 2
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    September 11, 2021 5:17pm
Yvette

Of course there should be an inquiry into Samsudeen’s action and the responses to them
I do not agree that no one besides the terrorist is to blame. The police are for not opposing bail. The government is for not deporting him because him was a risk to national security – Chuck Bird
https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/09/of_course_there_should_be_an_inquiry.html#comment-3015406

There is more to be done. I want to conclude by echoing the words of the Prime Minister: last week’s attack was terrorism carried out by an individual—not a faith, not a culture, not an ethnicity. The individual was gripped by ideology that is not supported here by anyone or any community. The terrorist alone carries the responsibility for his acts. – Hansard, MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS, Terrorist Attack—LynnMall, Hon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister responsible for the NZSIS)

The fact that Andrew Little in Parliament, echoes “the words of the Prime Minister” and like her displays a certain dissonance (mental oxymoronity) in the use of “individual” (which is now a trait of ISIS operation – the lone wolf is still one of the pack), and a mis-understanding of “faith, culture and ethnicity, and ideology”, indeed shows There is more to be done.

Some points (and some may be “red herrings” that would also benefit from an inquiry sorting the “seed from the chaff) –

1
While no specific details could be provided, Coster said on Saturday some of Samsudeen’s actions earlier on Friday [day of the attack] suggested he was planning for the future, with a “vision beyond the day yesterday“. Of those subscribing to dangerous ideologies in New Zealand, he was considered to be among the most concerning cases, the commissioner said. – various local media outlets
Which was better explained –
Transcripted video – As I noted yesterday there was nothing unusual about the subject’s routine as he travelled by train to the supermarket in Lynn Mall. In fact some of his actions yesterday suggested that he was planning for the future. – Te Ao Maori / News
If he was so positive about the future, why had Samsudeen attacked people and been shot shortly later?  

2
The man who carried out the terror attack in an Auckland supermarket fixated on and became obsessed with a person involved in his management after he was released from prison.
The Herald has learned that …
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-mall-terror-attack-terrorist-became-fixated-on-an-individual-in-weeks-leading-up-to-stabbings/RTS2SKWFQHW4WVYKMRJIHKLB6A/
Paywalled To continue reading this article and to support great journalism – For the first 12 weeks* pay just $1.99 per week (I haven’t)

3
The terrorist who stabbed shoppers at an Auckland supermarket tried to relinquish his New Zealand residence three years ago …
“Following this request, INZ attempted to engage with the individual about this request however he refused to speak to INZ. As such, the request was not progressed and INZ continued with its review of his refugee status.”

4
“We have given refugee status to an individual, because of a claimed threat he was under – and yet he has posed a significant threat to fellow New Zealanders. And that is an intolerable tension for any country to be under, and it does call for us to examine our laws.”
The National Party yesterday called for a public inquiry into Friday’s attack, saying it highlighted vulnerabilities in immigration and counter-terrorism law.
“It is important a public inquiry is conducted so that the interoperability of Government agencies can also be examined,” National leader Judith Collins said.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/terrorist-tried-revoke-nz-residence-but-his-request-not-progressed

5
New Zealand must foster belonging for all refugees in wake of terror attack
Was the Supermarket attacker, Samsudeen, a “convention refugees”
As well as looking at Terrorism Law, should not Immigration Law also be updated –
How many “convention refugees” (article below) are there each year?

Guardian, Thu 9 Sep 2021
One of the biggest challenges for good settlement experiences is that some refugees receive comprehensive support while others are left with next to nothing. This unequal treatment is based on how refugees arrive in New Zealand.

One way of coming here is through the refugee quota, whereby the government settles up to 1,500 people granted refugee status offshore on an annual basis. These people are referred to as “quota refugees”.
People who apply for refugee status within New Zealand are referred to as asylum seekers because they hope to apply under the 1951 UN Convention to attain refugee status. If they’re successful, they can remain in New Zealand and are then referred to as “convention refugees”.

International law gives them the same rights, but New Zealand’s policies mean that convention refugees receive far less support than their quota counterparts.

Quota refugees get a five-week orientation at Auckland’s Māngere resettlement reception centre and support for health, work, housing, education, social welfare assistance and other services in the various locations across New Zealand where they’re settled. A volunteer training programme run by the Red Cross connects Kiwis to newly arrived people to help them settle in. Much of this is support is through the refugee resettlement strategy that was implemented in 2013.

By contrast, convention refugees receive minimal support and are excluded from the refugee resettlement strategy during these critical early years.

Senior officials have been quoted for nearly a decade as saying that an aspiration of the refugee resettlement strategy is to – eventually – include convention refugees. Nearly a decade later, these statements largely ring hollow.

Our current policies create a division between so-called “deserving” and “undeserving” refugees and create confusion as to who is eligible for support, which means some people slip through the cracks. There are better ways to support them, and we know this because those ways are already in action with those who come through the refugee quota.

New Zealand’s resettlement approach, while not without flaws, is seen as an example of good practice. The problem at present is that, although all refugees share a similar protection need, it only supports some of them.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/09/new-zealand-must-foster-belonging-for-all-refugees-in-wake-of-terror-attack

6
Why exactly was a major mosque with the facility to better integrate the terrorist and his ideology with some normality not used after months of talks with Corrections, and the man placed in an annex to a minor, less facilitated, mosque?

7
There’s the family’s claim that he was radicalised here by “Middle East” neighbours, who are supposedly still “at large”, if not under SIS or similar surveillance.

8
There are several mental health issues involved.
I do quite closely know some one who has been sectioned – committed compulsorily to a psychiatric unit in accordance with a section of a mental health act – for a lesser reason, I would think, than Samsudeen, and while “The department had also started an application to the High Court for strengthened restrictions due to concerns about his escalating risk“ I can not understand the apparent slowness of the process, nor that (as others have questioned) he was not sectioned until his mental circumstances improved.

“The fact that Police and intelligence agencies were putting Samsudeen under 24-hour surveillance, that he needed a Special Tactics Group constantly in his vicinity, and up to thirty officers were involved in monitoring him, it indicates the serious danger they knew he posed.”
“It beggars belief Police did not challenge the bail application when Samsudeen was already isolated from the community, controlled in custody, and when he still had active violence charges against him.”
– Sensible Sentencing Trust https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/09/sst_on_bail_for_the_terrorist.html

I note that the Mental Health Foundation of New Zealand has said the individual did not meet the criteria to be involuntarily assessed under the Mental Health Act, and he did not meet the criteria to be sectioned under the Act. I expect that the coroner might investigate any role that mental health issues played in the terrible events that have transpired. – Andrew Little, Hansard

There is also plenty other material warranting an full independent inquiry.
And by someone other than those who wrote the Royal Commission Christchurch Report and used Tarrant’s name once, but not again in 798 pages, neutralising him (and the event to some degree) by referring to him as the individual.
(Both Tarrant and Samsudeen were lost humans, over whom Christ would have left his flock of ninety-nine sheep in order to find the one which is lost – two in fact, and sheep who had become wolves – which in Samsudeen’s case still needs substantial explaining) Sorry, to Christians, but think about it.
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September 11, 2021 8:45am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Downticked. Too bloody long.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:15am
  - Yvette
    
    Captain Mainwaring – With respect, you are always welcome to scroll on down past anything I write.
    And adopt Don Beckett appraisal, just below: TL:DR – but changed slightly from Too Long: Didn’t Read to Too Long, Don’t Read.
    
    I am aware of the length and regret that, but the intention of bolding some type, is that some people may read only those portions, and skip the rest.
    
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    September 11, 2021 9:56am
    - Steve Todd
      
      [… –] With respect, you are always welcome to scroll on down past anything I write.
      
      Bang on, Yvette.
      
      Keep up the good work.
      
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      September 11, 2021 11:22am
  - oldfella
    
    Capt, sorry to see you down-ticking the always excellent Yvette simply for posting a long, but well researched comment.
    Reminds me of that old English TV sitcom, ‘Never Mind the Quality, Feel the Width.’
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:22am
- Liberal Cliche
  
  No Tarrant and Samsudeen are both cause and effect. They have absolutely nothing in common with each other, the same applies to yourself and a tribal member of the Bantu who eats caterpillar’s and drinks fermented goat milk from the skull of his enemy.
  
  Your neo-liberal world view just got completely destroyed in Afghanistan, living life by the exception, you assume that awesome indian couple living next door, means you think can build a house in Chhattisgarh and live peacefully. You wouldn’t last a week.
  
  Not sure why you brought Christians into it, they already understand everything i just said, it’s literally right here….same thing Daniel 2:43.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:21am
- Don Beckett
  
  TL:DR
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:39am
- alex Masterley
  
  The way I read the mothers comments was that he visited Sri Lanka,in 2016, had an accident and while recovering there was radicalised by neighbours. The mothers statement suggested that radicalisation did not happen here.
  
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  September 11, 2021 10:32am
  - Yvette
    
    Alex Masterly
    There are two version of the mother’s comments, one implying her son was in Sri Lanka in 2016 (which would refute his claim as a protected refugee), and another saying the accident and radicalisation happened here in New Zealand and Samsudeen only left this country after 2011 to visit Samoa.
    
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    September 11, 2021 10:54am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Yeah, her statement was ambiguous. You would think the journalist concerned would have asked the right questions to obtain clarity.
      
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      September 11, 2021 6:55pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  All good points needing a full analysis.
  
  I’m especially cynical about NZ’s investigation of asylum refugees…which you have described above as
  Convention refugees.
  NZ seems to lack the ability to check the background of folk that just arrive on our shores.
  
  In contrast, folk who come through the refugee programme have usually spent long periods in refugee camps and there has been quite a time for agencies to background check their details.
  
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  September 11, 2021 10:43am
  - oldfella
    
    Maggy, I recall a large number of Muslims moved here after the Christchurch attack – family of those at the mosque. I wonder how well they were vetted? If at all.
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:31am
lazza

Hey Krazy Kiwi

Seems like we might need a written Constitution … after all … ehh?”
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September 11, 2021 8:45am
- thirteenstars
  
  In the modern woke political atmosphere?
  
  Such a constitution would only serve to enslave you further. This ain’t Philadelphia, 1787, more the pity.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:48am
  - kowtow
    
    Yer but that mob of rebellious felons didn’t free their slaves either and the whole point of the break with the King was so they could go and slaughter Indians , steal their land and enrich themselves beyond the Proclamation Line.
    
    ps I think most Americans are great , but all countries have their essential creation myths and theirs is no different . Call me a cynic .That’s OK ,but I’m also a realist.
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:03am
    - thirteenstars
      
      You don’t appear to be either.
      
      The Marxists in the US (and elsewhere) would certainly welcome your view, they also believing the US was founded upon a lie.
      
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      September 11, 2021 11:27am
- Jade Warrior
  
  No. I refer you to David Garrett’s response to the post of Rocky J above.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:55am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  The USSR had a very enlightened constitution when it was founded. Did nothing to stop Stalin killing 10’s of millions. Power comes out of the barrel of a gun (Mao)
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:13am
- MCos
  
  Thailand loves constitutions so much it’s had twenty since it became what’s laughably known as a democracy in 1932.
  The current one is written to make sure the military controls the country op more specifically the people don’t.
  
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  September 11, 2021 12:23pm
Thought Criminal

I see the Horrid is turning the Siouxsie hypocrisy into a hit on Collins. Classic Horrid. Bought and paid for.
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September 11, 2021 8:49am
- KevO'Brien
  
  When microbiologists, fungi researchers, allow themselves to become magenta-heads for the PM’s pop squad Medical lockdowners she only has own extended view to blame.
  
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  September 11, 2021 8:54am
- Cinematic
  
  Doesn’t matter. There’s not a reasonable person in NZ that didn’t see Wiles and think bullshit hypocrite. The horse has bolted.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:11am
- Ruawai
  
  Judith needs to learn not to become the story as she knows the media are out to trip her up.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:23am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Damned if she does (“here’s why everything that Judith says and does is evil”) and damned if she doesn’t (Judith is doomed, anonymous with no support, and national are an irrelevant mess).
    
    The problem is entirely that the media are in bed with Labour + Greens.
    
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    September 11, 2021 9:38am
  - Cinematic
    
    Quite the contrary. JC needs to become the story as often as possible.
    
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    September 11, 2021 10:01am
  - Isobar
    
    She’s simply mentally not able to she restraint. Despite ordering all het caucus to not get distracted on side shows, this clearly doesn’t apply to herself.
    
    Its now only a matter of time before the smarter members of caucus say enough is enough. Outbursts like this set all of the hard work some in the opposition are doing back in an instant.
    
    Key and English kept her at arms legth for a reason.
    
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    September 11, 2021 12:02pm
    - Cinematic
      
      Nonsense. JC needs to keep speaking her mind. Being meek will get her where it got that waste of space now sitting on the back benches.
      
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      September 11, 2021 12:17pm
    - gravedodger
      
      @ Isobar
      Quite a long summary, “you do not like her”.
      
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      September 11, 2021 12:39pm
  - DeepBlue
    
    Without the JuCo story, the people would never have learnt of Dr Wiles indiscretion.
    
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    September 11, 2021 2:00pm
- kowtow
  
  stuff also .
  
  But they go so far to allow Wiles to say the video of her and her friend breaching the L4 rules is ” disinformation” , and of course Collins is dragged into it for “fat shaming” .
  
  By sitting at the beach , having a cosy chat with her friend and by paddling in the water herself , she was not execising , she was enjoying an outing to the beach , which the rest of us are not allowed to do and which she herself has told others not to do .
  
  For Blofeld to say that swimming is not swimming is the ultimate in govt ministry of truth newspeak and for Robbo to try to change the subject and redirect the media off the story is also a well worn tactic and should be called out by the media as “mis direction ”
  
  Full marks to the foreign sounding male reporter for doing his job yesterday . I wonder who he is ands whther he’ll be “unpersoned” by the Ninth Floor .
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:34am
- Nickc2
  
  also, is it part of St Ash’s Job Description to defend her? He did, and at the Podium Of Truth (POT) no less.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:56am
- Thought Criminal
  
  Even better. They’ve ramped this up to the LEAD STORY on the website. And it’s not paywalled because it’s not critical of princess lazy government.
  
  “OPINION: Judith Collins’ bizarre attack on Siouxsie Wiles is something you’d expect from a troll on the internet, rather than a leader in waiting, argues Toby Manhire.”
  
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  September 11, 2021 12:10pm
  - Cinematic
    
    Nothing bizarre about it. JC simply said what everyone was thinking (especially those supporting this administration).
    
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    September 11, 2021 12:20pm
I remember when

Is it true that Judith Collins is going to do the ‘wrong thing’ all the time in future.
That way the press will be able to say she got it right.
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September 11, 2021 8:55am
ABS4EVA

Imagine this if you will for a minute

You work hard you pay your taxes you obey the law.

YOU END YOUR DAYS
IN A LYNN MALL SUPERMARKET

Because people like JACINDA ADHERN
and THE POLICE.

DO NOT DO THEIR JOBs PERIOD.

I bet the Survivors of the Latest
Labour Party Nightmare are wondering

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON
IN NEW ZEALAND

Why do we have all these HIGHLY PAID GOONS
and why do ALL THE DO is

GO into BAT for
Crims, Lunatics and
God Damed Scum Bags
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September 11, 2021 9:08am
- Jack5
  
  What the hell is going on with your keyboard caps key, ABS4EVA?
  
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  September 11, 2021 1:15pm
  - ABS4EVA
    
    [Deleted – try posting again, but without all the CAPS LOCK. Mod.]
    
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    September 11, 2021 2:05pm
  - Observer of Life
    
    Jack: Agree re ABS. It would also be nice if he could string things into a sentence to make it easier to understand. Sorry ABS.. but it’s off putting. I don’t actually bother reading them now. Too hard.
    
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    September 11, 2021 2:27pm
Harro104

Large families with Covid are being crammed into a room single room at Jet Park for weeks on end. Allowed outside every 2 or 3 days. Sounds awful.

Your reward for getting tested: a short prison-like stay with kids. I think I’ll pass and stay home, thanks. We need better options fast.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-life-inside-jet-park-with-six-kids-and-the-delta-variant/XMBNQ4U3TZRJS3HQV2WGBQNG6M/
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September 11, 2021 9:19am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  This is a recipe for infecting everyone in the family with a large viral load of coranovirus.
  
  If the family had been told to isolate at home, the children (including baby) could have been in separate rooms away from their very sick father.
  
  Perhaps the idea is to expose everyone at the same time to a nasty illness.
  
  From my POV it is Insane and probably illegal to force uninfected individuals into a confined space with a sick family member.
  
  It’s not something I’ll be putting my hand up for.
  
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  September 11, 2021 10:50am
CAKE FACE1

I was just thinking about the 1984 New Zealand constitutional crisis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_Zealand_constitutional_crisis

“On the morning on Wednesday 18 July,[11] after an emergency caucus meeting, Muldoon relented and agreed to devalue the currency upon Lange’s wishes. Muldoon’s most senior Cabinet members, led by the soon to be Leader Jim McLay, had threatened to remove Muldoon from his leadership of the National Party and therefore strip him of his post as Prime Minister and Minister of Finance.”

Cindy’s government is almost exactly the same as Sir Robert Muldoon’s 1975 – 1984 government.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it all ended in a constitutional crisis.

Just like in 1984, we as a country are now staring into the bankruptcy abyss.

At some point, I suspect we will need to open the borders, or we go broke. I could imagine Cindy refusing to do it, like her mentor, Sir Robert Muldoon, before her.

Will the Labour cabinet act, to have her removed? I’m not sure. These people are almost uniformly weak.

NZ is in crisis, and in perhaps three years’ time, all could be lost.
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September 11, 2021 9:20am
- surfing
  
  “At some point, I suspect we will need to open the borders, or we go broke. I could imagine Cindy refusing to do it”
  
  This is the big money question … I’m hoping that the plan is to vaccinate then open.
  
  It is uncertain whether Cindy will do this (poor leadership?), but, Denmark just did. Other countries are doing it… we’d be the odd one out if we didn’t.
  
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  September 11, 2021 10:13am
- Paulus
  
  Nah, she is the Constitution and will do whatever she wants.
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:45am
- Ra Henare
  
  I think you ascribed abilities to Jacinda that she does not have.
  Muldoon was very firmly the decision maker and bully of the National Party Government. Bureaucrats did everything not to have to front with him.
  
  I well remember Muldoon turning up to a board meeting of NZ Finance Houses Association and demanding that they do certain things or he would legislate.
  
  Jacinda is just a glove puppet being manipulated by””advisors””
  
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  September 11, 2021 12:35pm
I remember when

Denmark lifts all Covid restrictions as vaccinations reach 80%.
Jacinda thinks they will find 120% is necessary.
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September 11, 2021 9:25am
- Stu2
  
  We will probably do what oz does.
  
  At the federal level they have been more decisive than we have (border closure), and they have revealed their reopening plans in more detail, and sooner.
  
  I’m really pleased their approach will probably force our hand.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:54am
Benedict Yu

Been looking at a bunch of data on covid early this morning. John Campbell summarises most of it.

https://youtu.be/ASq0_qUo2dA

Key points…

Covid cases in the vaccinated are now climbing rapidly around 50,000 daily in the UK.

Serious illness is overwhelmingly in the unvaccinated.

No question that vaccine effectiveness declines markedly and steadily after 6 to 8 months.

Signs that protection against serious illness also declines but so far it is a small decline.

Very important… Large scale studies about to begin on those who are vaccinated but subsequently become infected. How does their immunity hold up? Well we hope.

Really interesting stuff. And any comment by the New Zealand government on the implications of these studies for New Zealand 12 months from now? Of course not.
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September 11, 2021 9:29am
- cmm
  
  “And any comment by the New Zealand government on the implications of these studies”
  
  The key to communications is keeping the message simple.
  
  So simple in fact that likely well over 50% of people in NZ believe that the vaccine is as effective as MMR.
  
  Most people do not want the truth – which is messy – and then take the responsibility to work through it themselves. Most would rather be told what to do. If that results in a poor outcome, then at least it isn’t their fault.
  
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  September 11, 2021 10:05am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “So simple in fact that likely well over 50% of people in NZ believe that the vaccine is as effective as MMR.”
    
    Well over 50 percent indeed. The data I cite gets literally zero coverage in the media in New Zealand.
    
    Advisers in the Ministry of Health are no doubt aware of it. But what are that supposed to do? Good luck telling the PM let alone expecting her to acknowledge what it means
    
    I kind of get why they want to keep the message simple “get vaccinated” but science does not dissappear. In 12 months New Zealand will be a nation of mostly vaccinated people substantially unprotected from infection.
    
    The irony is this. The emerging best strategy is to get as many people vaccinated as possible and them let covid become endemic. This is totally opposite to the PMs plan to “stamp it out like measles” which must be one of the most ill informed things she has ever said.
    
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    September 11, 2021 10:26am
    - Ed Snack
      
      The problem I see Benedict is that at some point there’s going to be deaths, and possibly a reasonably significant number of them, in NZ from Covid. And the government don’t want to admit that as it will cost them at least some of their mana; even though it is inevitable.
      
      So they’ll keep up the charade of zero Covid, with whatever measures they can get away with (and theatre, don’t forget the mask theatre) until it does hit. Then they’ll find a suitable scapegoat of some sort to blame. They’ll claim that they did everything they could but were let down by “****” , and quite possibly that scapegoat will be us, all of us, for not being compliant and sufficiently cowed to do everything we’re told.
      
      The change of thinking to plan admit that Covid zero is impossible long term is too much for them at present.
      
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      September 11, 2021 10:39am
      - cmm
        
        It’s exactly the same reality avoidance that gives us these idiots who put up the ridiculous zero road death targets.
        
        As reality bites, the Swedish approach is looking better and better.
        
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        September 11, 2021 12:05pm
    - crikey
      
      You’re jumping the gun a bit BU (“ In 12 months New Zealand will be a nation of mostly vaccinated people substantially unprotected from infection”). We just do not have the information yet to be able to speculate on the extent of residual immunity in 12 month’s time.
      
      There is increasing thinking that eventually we are all going to contract Covid as it becomes endemic. Vaccination now does give protection, contracting Covid eventually will undoubtedly boost immunity and not just against the spike protein – this may well be the most effective “booster” giving longer-term immunity, but of course that also is yet to be proven.
      
      The jury is currently out on whether giving a third vaccine, starting now or soon, as a booster makes sense. Why? If the booster vaccine is the same as existing vaccines, targeting just the spike protein, its long-term effectiveness may also be limited.
      
      More to come no doubt as knowledge increases.
      
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      September 11, 2021 11:11am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        You said I jumped the gun and then agreed with me.
        
        If you do a counter factual and imagine the world now with no covid vaccines, I am immenseky grateful that we have them.
        
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        September 11, 2021 12:28pm
      - Cinematic
        
        There is an established trend now with that particular vaccine. The data is only likely to get worse.
        
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        September 11, 2021 12:32pm
I remember when

Would Siouxsie Wiles benefit more from her cycling
if
she didn’t have to ‘back-pedal’ so often.
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September 11, 2021 9:38am
- alex Masterley
  
  And didnt use an ebike.
  
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  September 11, 2021 10:34am
  - crikey
    
    Don’t trash ebikes. You have to pedal and can work as hard as you want for a good workout.
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:13am
    - Cinematic
      
      I don’t see many working hard on them. I see a lot of unfit people causing widespread mayhem at speeds well beyond their skill level on our already congested roads.
      
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      September 11, 2021 12:34pm
    - gravedodger
      
      Yet choose not to work out and still get where you are going so long as the Huntly Power Station has contributed
      
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      September 11, 2021 12:44pm
thirteenstars

Don Brash on the David Seymour Maori vaccine access code kerfuffle:

Unless you’ve been living under a stone, you will know that when David Seymour was bold enough to disclose the special code which allowed Maori New Zealanders in Auckland to get vaccinated without needing to make an appointment, he was dumped on from a great height by almost everybody on the Left of politics and even by some on the Right, like Shane Reti, National’s Deputy Leader.

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/defending-democracy-is-tough-these-days

Far as I can see, Seymour’s transgression against the prevailing orthodoxy and the cogent way in which he argued his case…

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/david-seymour-why-i-published-the-priority-access-code-for-m%C4%81ori

…will only draw more support to ACT, and regards Reti’s tone deaf condemnation…

https://www.teaomaori.news/shane-reti-calls-david-seymour-sharing-maori-access-codes-disgusting

…particularly away from National.
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September 11, 2021 9:44am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I’d say support for ACT in the Chinese communities exceeds 50 percent.
  
  I’ve given up on National. They would be much less wasteful than Labour and would probably have a coherent transport policy. New Zealand deserves better than that.
  
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  September 11, 2021 10:48am
- DeepBlue
  
  It’s ideology, the code was shared widely already on Social Media. Has anyone reported being turned away from a vax centre, other than peak jab rate a few weeks ago? No.
  
  Seymour did an excellent job at getting more people vaccinated
  
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  September 11, 2021 2:26pm
Gulag1917

Sums up some people’s size and their politics,
“the world is dominated by peace loving fatties”
Charles Atlas.
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September 11, 2021 9:49am
Tony Stuart

In the years to come, will Labour MP’s complain long and loud about the days when Covid-19 was running down the walls at Middlemore Hospital?
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September 11, 2021 9:56am
Northshoredoc

Random impertinent questions for a Saturday morning.

1. How much has MBIE, MoH, TVNZ, RNZ and the DOTPM and Cabinet paid for advice and/or commentary from Te Pūnaha Matatini or from persons associated with Te Pūnaha Matatini.

2. How much has the government spent on COVID advertising and awareness over the last 12 months broken down by consultants. agency fees and advertising placement.
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September 11, 2021 9:59am
- MrTips
  
  3. How much does the govt plan to spend on the health system given it is going to have to encounter COVID, RSV, flu and a host of other issues all at once between opening up and 6 months after?
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:35am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    4. Does Andrew Little still plan to spend almost $500m on creating a new health bureaucracy whilst the current health system is quite literally on its knees?
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:51am
    - sooty
      
      Could do with that as a cash injection as well!
      
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      September 11, 2021 12:31pm
- Observer of Life
  
  Who/what is “Te Pūnaha Matatini”? Otherwise I too would like the answers.
  
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  September 11, 2021 2:34pm
- Nickc2
  
  A couple more costs questions:
  
  1. How much did we pay for the 250 units of Spanish Vaccine?
  2. How much would 250K units of Vaccine cost from Phizer?
  
  Does anyone know?
  
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  September 11, 2021 3:51pm
Yvette

To reveal I can be brief as well –
Is “cockwomble” – a foolish person, an obnoxious person, or a person of striking idiocy – a sexist term, especially when used by a woman, and more especially by Tova O’Brien?
And when even other journalists are not familiar with the term (James Elliot: “I confess that I didn’t know the precise definition of cockwomble but my instinct was to assume [it] isn’t flattering”), is using such a word not a bit “foolish”. a little “obnoxious” and slightly “of striking idiocy” in itself?
Well, a little briefer
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September 11, 2021 10:18am
- kevn
  
  @Yvette… The word relates more to O’Brien than Seymour. Toxic thing she is as well.
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:11am
  - zulumonster
    
    [deleted, you don’t have to guess why – Mod]
    
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    September 11, 2021 4:00pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  It’s clearly a legacy anti-gay term for someone who gathers cocks on english commons – ie anonymous gay “cottaging” or “dogging”.
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:19am
  - Ehlana
    
    Suddenly the womble part makes sense…
    
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    September 11, 2021 3:43pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      ‘Underground, overground, wombling free…’
      
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      September 11, 2021 7:05pm
- ecco
  
  Where’s the media works hatchet man Wallace. Shouldn’t he have stood O’Brien down and told her to pull her head in.
  
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  September 12, 2021 12:03am
dcrane

Interesting discussion on Stuff of covid sub-clusters that cannot yet be completely linked to the current outbreak. These could easily see the lockdown extended in Auckland. I guess the one encouraging sign from this detail is that *apparently* from the genetics we’re sure they’re all derived from the original Sydney traveler.

Still, I wish some reporter would ask if we can be certain that none of these subclusters are due to covid escaping again from MIQ, from another traveler infected with the same NSW outbreak lineage.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126348765/covid19-what-are-unlinked-subclusters-and-should-we-be-concerned-about-them
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September 11, 2021 10:23am
Muttonbird

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Excellent article by Toby Manhire on Collins, and Wiles.

Eighteen months and one day ago, Siouxsie’s first collaboration with my friend and colleague Toby Morris was published on The Spinoff. It’s been a privilege to watch the pair of them work. Both have worked 100 hour weeks, much more than once, because they’re weird, and because they give a shit.

They’ve created work that has been viewed by hundreds of millions of people around the world. Because Siouxsie insisted from the start that the work should be released under a creative commons licence, it’s been translated into dozens of languages. It’s been repackaged and shared by public health authorities in the UK, Australia, Argentina, the Czech Republic, and a heap of other places. One of my favourites: a version of the “break the chain” animation, popped up in a campaign on Berlin bus-stops. The WHO used the pair for much of last year as key parts of its communication strategy.

What a body of work. Siouxsie Wiles’ legacy is immense. Judith Collins’ legacy? You tell me. Or, a better thought experiment: try to imagine her as the prime minister, leading the country in the face of a crisis.

Ouch.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/10-09-2021/new-zealand-urgently-needs-a-serious-opposition-leader/
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September 11, 2021 10:32am
- cmm
  
  Spinoff?
  
  Was this written my Wiles’ friend (a spinoff “journalist”) seen swimming next to her?
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:05am
- Northshoredoc
  
  You still seen to a be a bit off Martin.
  
  Hope you’re not not doing it too tough in lockdown.
  
  It is hardly a surprising article by Toby has is mates with the other two. I do think Toby’s simple visuals combined with Siouxsie’s storyline are very good – good on them.
  
  However, I don’t think Siouxsie’s behaviour at the beach and subsequent deflection of criticism does her any favours especially when she has been so strident with her advice to others.
  
  Perhaps a simpler strategy would’ve been for her to say she fucked up and re-iterate the advice she has given everyone else.
  
  By the way I am not a fan of Collins and think the current National opposition is the poorest in memory, this is very worrying when combined with what in my opinion is the poorest Labour government in memory.
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:26am
- Taieri
  
  Siouxsie Wiles’ legacy is immense.
  —————
  
  And what, precisely is her “legacy”?
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:29am
  - Muttonbird
    
    Read the article. The work she and Toby Morris did is used all over the world and has been viewed by hundreds of millions of people.
    
    The work Collins does is celebrated by a very few benighted reactionaries.
    
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    September 11, 2021 4:03pm
    - Taieri
      
      I have. And wonder…no, not about your parallel universe…
      
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      September 11, 2021 6:20pm
- MrTips
  
  Wiles’ legacy? Bwahahaa….
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:36am
- Philview
  
  I think Judith made a mistake with her comments. She needs to be giving the appearance of a Prime Minister in waiting and doesn’t gain anything by getting into these sort of trivial debates.
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:44am
  - Cinematic
    
    Oh please. How exactly does a PM in waiting act? Keep it real is all JC needs to do. Have you looked at the voter base lately? Take a drive, mingle a little.
    
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    September 11, 2021 12:40pm
    - Philview
      
      David Seymour is showing it. He is a day ahead of Judith on every issue. I don’t recall David getting this sort of jump on Simon Bridges.
      
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      September 11, 2021 3:44pm
    - pragmatist
      
      Having only been on this mortal coil a mere 40 odd summers I’m first to admit there’s still a fair chunck to learn and hopefully I continue to every day. One thing I learnt very early on however through having a mother, sisters, grandmothers, female work colleagues and female friends, but also from very clear mistakes observing others, is the one thing you never, ever say to a female in response to anything (even when asked directly- probably more so actually) is that said female may be fat. Not being any type of psychology expert I don’t know why, but it cuts to the very bone for females. Said once will be remembered forever. Forever. If you don’t think so, but perhaps unconsciously I think we all do, when was the last time anyone on KB told a female to their face they were fat? Anyone??
      We can argue the semantics of interpretation of the statement all day, yes she may have meant it in way of being descriptive to indicate something is big, but 50% of her voter base heard her saying someone is fat. And that is anathema to a lot of them who already struggle to like her let’s be honest.
      As for leader in waiting, would we approve of JC sitting around the table at G7 let’s say, and Angela Merkhal makes a comment which JC as pm thinks may or may not be true (as is the case here) and calls her a “big fat liar”. How do you think Angela is going to take that? Or the rest of the grown ups at the G7? And every other female who deep down has the most well known but most misunderstood by us males deepest insecurity known that the gentler side of our species seems to hold. Can’t explain it but it’s a thing.
      Would we give it the “say what ya think JC, and it’s true anyway!”?
      Crickets I expect.
      
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      September 11, 2021 3:44pm
  - jon
    
    Collins probably made her comments because it would mean the MSM would have to reluctantly and belatedly have to report the Wiles incident.
    
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    September 11, 2021 3:45pm
- NoFax
  
  “Two weeks to flatten the curve” and here we are locked up in our homes 18 months later.
  
  Toby and the pink hair one can take their legacy and shove it where the sun don’t shine.
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:45am
- Tony Stuart
  
  You mean Toby Manhire, the embedded Labour Party journalist, who works for The Spinoff which has received more than $7 million from the Labour government? Or is this some other Toby Manhire?
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:53am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Oops; I erred. It was only $6.1 million. Mea culpa 😀
    
    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/07/61_million_to_the_spinoff_from_taxpayers.html
    
    Speaking of a mea culpa, that’s all Dr Wiles had to do to defuse this. When someone from the BFD rang her, she should have said “oh shit, looks like I made a mistake. I apologise unreservedly” and the story would have immediately lost any steam it had. Kiwis respect those who own their mistakes and front up.
    
    Compare that with Andrew Little during Question Time on Wednesday:
    
    Dr Shane Reti: Does he accept that, ultimately, he is responsible for the coronavirus situation at Middlemore Hospital, and not health staff?
    
    Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I don’t think I’ve heard a more ridiculous question in this House in the short time I’ve been in Parliament.
    
    Is there a single Minister in the current Parliament who understands the principle of ministerial accountability?
    
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    September 11, 2021 2:42pm
BananaLlama

No one in middle New Zealand gives a flying fuck about fat shaming, it is a far left twitter journalist issue. Most people are of a reasonable mind and will see the hypocrisy of Wiles going to the beach while being threatened with jail if they do the same.
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September 11, 2021 10:33am
- cmm
  
  If we were a bit more honest about the health problems associated with massive obesity it might actually help people.
  
  But naah, rather don’t make it uncomfortable for them and pull up the smokescreen about fat shaming.
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:06am
- lifesgood
  
  For goodness sake! If you’re fat, you’re fat same as if you’re blond you’re blond. Statement of fact.
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:28am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    And entirely within your power to fix. Being obese is a choice.
    
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    September 11, 2021 4:31pm
Local Miller

Some apt current political commentary for today, written about 2500 – 3000 years ago.

The trees decided to anoint a king over themselves. They said to the olive tree, “Reign over us.”
But the olive tree said to them, “Should I stop giving my oil that people use to honor both God and men, and rule over the trees?”
Then the trees said to the fig tree, “Come and reign over us.”
But the fig tree said to them, “Should I stop giving my sweetness and my good fruit, and rule over trees? ”
Later, the trees said to the grapevine, “Come and reign over us.”
But the grapevine said to them, “Should I stop giving my wine that cheers both God and man, and rule over trees? ”
Finally, all the trees said to the bramble, “Come and reign over us.”
The bramble said to the trees, “If you really are anointing me as king over you, come and find refuge in my shade.”
Judges 9 v 8 – 15a
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September 11, 2021 10:36am
- cmm
  
  Hmmm… doesn’t mention chip wrappers.
  
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  September 11, 2021 10:46am
Humble Capitalist

Just how many lives does Comrade Ardern and her circus of clowns want to ruin with their unsustainable ‘elimination’ plan? We will never be able to measure lives ruined and life years lost vs. 85 year olds dying. Im not sure how many lives control freak Ardern and co will ending up ruining but Id love to catch up with her at Prefab Cafe in Wellington to discuss it further.
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September 11, 2021 10:41am
- cmm
  
  I’s not even a good deal for the 85 year olds.
  
  Consider an 85 year old in a nursing home. On average they will have about a year of life left. If you were in such a condition, would you rather:
  A) Be locked down, unable to do your little outings. No visits from the grandkids. No Sunday roast with the family. You will get a very small chance of a slightly longer lifespan.
  B) Not be locked down, able to live your life to the fullest. You can visit, and be visited by the grandkids. You can have that Sunday roast with the family. You might have a slightly shorter life (averaged out, maybe a day or so).
  
  It’s a quantity vs quality thing. I’d think if you have only a year of life left then you’re rather be making the most of it rather than wasting it trying to live an extra day longer.
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:14am
  - C-Town
    
    And I suspect that most 85 year olds wouldn’t want their family and everyone else in the world to be locked on, lose their jobs and rights and freedoms just to extend their lives an extra year or two. If I was old, I’d rather just take my chances with the virus and spend my last few remaining years enjoying myself rather than spending them confined to my room in isolation.
    
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    September 11, 2021 12:24pm
  - sooty
    
    How many lives have been shortened due to the lockdowns with harder doctor visits, not seeing specialists, not going to or been chucked early out of hospitals and not been able to socialize!
    
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    September 11, 2021 12:39pm
cmm

A day or two ago I wrote about skewed risk and why average risk for a group is not the same as the risk for an average person in the group.

If you have a play with the CV19 risk calculator, plugging in various factors you can see what I mean.

For me: male, 60, 196cm, 125kg, (BMI=32) with atrial fibrilation I get about a 1/4000 chance of death.

If I cut the weight down to a better weight of, say, 110 kg then my chance of death goes down to 1/4700.

If I didn’t have the afib then I would be at 1/4500.

Since my afib is well managed, I’m going to split the difference: 1/4200.

That’s around the same risk levels of dying in a car crash.

I am not scaring myself to death every time I get in a car. I damn well won’t be scared of CV19 either!
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September 11, 2021 10:43am
- cmm
  
  Sorry I forgot the link.
  
  Unless you have a pile of negative factors you’ll probably find your risk is way lower than you think.
  
  Have a go: https://qcovid.org/Calculation
  
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  September 11, 2021 10:57am
  - Humble Capitalist
    
    1/23256 or 0.0043% for me.
    Apparently if I hide under the bed with a mask on for the next 40 years its even less
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:18am
  - Cinematic
    
    I’m over 1/33000. Higher risk than I thought.
    
    And time to reconsider driving as a hobby.
    
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    September 11, 2021 12:49pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Haaaaaaa!
    
    Check this out…
    I’m on a risk factor of dying from Covid of 1:4926,
    (with a current BMI of 24.6)
    but if I was to lose 7kg, my risk factor rises to 1:4630.
    
    Looks like I’ll be keeping my tummy rolls and bum pads.
    
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    September 11, 2021 1:40pm
- kevn
  
  @cmmm… But but, arden says you gotta get your jab and save lives.
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:08am
- covfefe
  
  Lose weight for your AF – single most important thing you can do!
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:24am
  - cmm
    
    Yup, thanks. I am well aware of that and have been doing something about it (with the odd fall off the cart).
    
    I’ve shed about 30 kg in the last 2 years. A bit further to go yet.
    
    That was the first thing my cardiologist said when he saw me in a hospital bed. Blunt bugger – which helped.
    
    He said something like:
    
    “You’re here (indicating about 10%) and you can get to here (100%). We (meaning the medical team) can get you to about here (60%) and the rest is up to you.”
    
    This is a message that far too few patients get. Just give them another pill and get the ambulance ready.
    
    He also said that being very tall would knock 5-10 years off my life but lifestyle choices would keep it closer to 5.
    
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    September 11, 2021 12:17pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Well, and smoking cessation
    
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    September 11, 2021 7:10pm
Maggie Pie

‘THE TRON comes back to life under Alert Level 2’

– Stuff

https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/1436436819839631362
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September 11, 2021 10:46am
- Okahu
  
  Some dances are dances. This is an on point mating ritual. She wouldn’t have got 10 seconds in before needing a pregnancy and or STD test were it the Tron.
  
  Forgive me world but, ‘just saying’.
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:07am
Humble Capitalist

I dont know about you but Ive never had any time for listening to health advice from an obese, pink haired South African of The Year. I could protect myself by getting vaccinated but then again others could help protect themselves by dropping 40kg. Some health experts and leading politicians especially. I dont go around telling people what to eat and to lose weight just because they are a heart disease or cancer risk. So why should I have to listen to their ‘health advice’?
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September 11, 2021 10:51am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Evil Fauci.
https://rumble.com/vma171-rand-paul-proposes-5-years-in-jail-for-fauci-for-lying-to-congress.html?
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September 11, 2021 10:55am
- Okahu
  
  And 10 years for all those judges who lied about there being no Big Lie! I mean their big lie was bigger than the Big Lie so how can they pretend there isn’t a Big Lie if they have had to do a bigger big lie of their own to hide the Big Lie that their big lie is lying about! Eh SteveO!
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:24am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Down the rabbit hole we go, until we lose track of which whataboutism leads us to the truth.
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:46am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Why do I see an image of your PM when I read that?
    
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    September 11, 2021 11:46am
Okahu

Does anybody remember Soap? The quite brilliant somewhat risqué late night sit com? It ended each episode with a list of questions, like the John West BATMAN did but on point. All to that ear worm theme music, da da da dadum, da da da da etc.

It brought Billy Crystal and the character Benson to our attention and man were they good. Benson in particular had sass to burn and burn he did. The powerful white folk he served were just risible and he let us and them know it. Groundbreaking it was in inverting power relationships and gender relationships and sexual politics and cracking open the sit com formula. Nothing and nobody was sacred from homicide through infidelity to zits. Though more than a decade after some of that had been achieved by that incredible woman (who gave us Star Trek!), Lucille Ball, it didn’t make its laughs contingent on family friendly scenarios as her eponymous vehicle mostly did. Rather on the inevitable friction of disparate characters, albeit caught in ridiculous and usually wickedly compromising set ups.

Well humm that theme music for me, now I’ve given you time to dredge it from your turbid recesses and answer me these as you do.

What has happened to Happy Chappy? Has he walked off in a huff now the high priest krazy has learned his 8.00am first posting trick? Did krazy even have to learn it or was it a cheat code he was slipped like a ‘backdoor’ gift? Is krazy Farrar’s gimp? In a time of ever improving currency performance (hope you cockies hedged) was happy’s message of economic doom falling on deaf ears? Will the usurper’s essays on freedom and the perils of health have legs?

Keep tuned in and I guess these questions, and many others, will be answered on the next soapy episodes of general debate!
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September 11, 2021 11:01am
- curry4me
  
  Okahu: I use that Soap intro for my recent Asterisk resident articles. Last week on … It was a fun series.
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:38am
- mikenmildagain
  
  It was an extremely funny parody of the contemporary US soap operas. For some reason, this has triggered the memory of the UK comedy Brass, a parody of gritty soaps like When the Boat Comes In.
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:44am
  - curry4me
    
    mikenmildagain: One of my favorite BBC programs from the 80s. A great send up of all that ‘trouble at mill’ stuff.
    
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    September 11, 2021 12:41pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I loved Soap, especially Benson, the black butler, with his cutting sarcasm. When Soap ended and Benson was given his own show however, it wasn’t as effective.
    
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    September 11, 2021 2:44pm
- cas
  
  Soap is currently showing on either the Jones or Jones too channel on Sky. Brideshead revisited is showing again on Jones.
  
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  September 11, 2021 3:43pm
JibberJabber

Fauci admitted natural immunity works better than the Vax, studies show. Yet he still believes in mandating them anyway??? Make this make sense…

https://twitter.com/TheOfficerTatum/status/1436464778151485441
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September 11, 2021 11:08am
Yvette

How many people with ‘extremist views’ in the community are being watched closely.

Responding to an Official Information Act request filed before the attack, Corrections said it had compiled a list earlier this year of “persons of interest for extremist views” in preparation for the second anniversary of New Zealand’s worst-ever terror attack – the Christchurch mosque shootings of 2019.
Corrections said it was, in March, monitoring 81 people behind bars and 135 in the community.
“These individuals range in their level of concern from confirmed extremist beliefs to those who have displayed risk factors and indicators specific to radicalisation, violent extremism, and ideological, political, social or political-religious motivated violence,” national commissioner Rachel Leota said.
Of those 216 people, 140 have, or are considered at risk of, identity-motivated violent extremism; the other 76 of faith-motivated violent extremism. Corrections didn’t specify which identities or religions. The mosque shootings were carried out by a white supremacist nationalist, while the Countdown incident was New Zealand’s first-ever attack believed to be inspired by Islamic State.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/revealed-how-many-people-with-extremist-views-in-the-community-are-being-watched-closely.html

Another reason why an inquiry into the Auckland attack should be held, to perhaps reveal how we may be protected from some of these other 216 people – 140 considered at risk of, identity-motivated violent extremism; the other 76 of faith-motivated violent extremism.
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September 11, 2021 11:13am
- cmm
  
  ” The mosque shootings were carried out by a white supremacist nationalist”
  
  Bit of a porky in that… He was white, he might have been a white supremacist. But nationalist? Nope.
  
  If he had been, he’d have had “I did this for Australia” all over his manifesto – something that did not happen.
  
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  September 11, 2021 2:01pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    The reason his “writings” are banned is that if you read them (as one could for a brief period) you would know that the “white supremacist” label was a deliberate piece of misdirection.
    
    Eco Fascist, one of the factions in the Green movement, is a better description.
    
    In fact, white supremacists as a group (in NZ) almost don’t exist. There’s probably a dozen or more of the old Christchurch mob around, but really there’s no constituency for the old style white supremacists who had a belief in the (amazingly enough) supremacy of the “white” race. What you have now is a wide but disparate grouping who oppose the overtly racist agenda followed by most of the left.
    
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    September 11, 2021 9:07pm
- Liberal Cliche
  
  “The mosque shootings were carried out by a white supremacist nationalist, while the Countdown incident was New Zealand’s first-ever attack believed to be inspired by Islamic State.”
  
  See the disconnect? The mention of race “White” and then the obscure “Islamic state” for the muslim.
  
  Every person stabbed by the muslim was White. There was more racial intent of murder than Tarrant. Tarrant was more a political statement than the muslim.
  
  But they don’t want you to know any of that. Not only are both Tarrant and the muslim fueled by ideology but so is the media their moral relativism it is whats contributing to the entire situation.
  
  Jumping moral hoops with one hand to underplay the ideology of 1 to protect his “faith” whilst demonizing an entire race on the other.
  
  People notice this, and that feeds the fire. This is deliberate intention by the media, whos diabolical agenda is worse than any muslim/White supremacist. There’s no other explanation.
  
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  September 11, 2021 3:52pm
  - Batman
    
    Tarrant went to a fucking mosque and shot those innocent people because he wanted to start a revolution against ‘brown’ people migrating and replacing white people.
    
    One was done for religion, one was done for racist idiocy.
    
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    September 11, 2021 4:18pm
  - Nickc2
    
    There was a segment on TV3 News tonight reporting a figure of 140 plus active known terrorists are currently in NZ.
    The segment involved a discussion between a female (possibly a journalist) with chin scribble and Kelven Davis. The discussion was in Te Reo with a few translations provided as subtitles. This discussion became a little heated (Kelvin Davis couldn’t support his point) and the program ended abruptly, progressing to the next segment.
    There was no mention of these facts as provided under FOI I believe, on TVNZ1.
    Protecting Cindy’s arse perhaps?
    
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    September 11, 2021 7:22pm
curry4me

‘Green’ Party MP James Shaw is going to Glasgow in November for a ‘climate change’ conference. What’s the bet he, or his retinue bring back the hitherto unknown ‘cock-womble’ strain of the CCP virus, and Auckland is in Level 4 for Christmas?
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September 11, 2021 11:27am
- Paulus
  
  Heard Shaw’s retinue is 16 people – all top expenses paid for by you and me !
  But Glasgee !
  
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  September 11, 2021 1:26pm
- cmm
  
  When I was at uni there was a saying:
  
  Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.
  
  I’m sure we could sub in flying for climate change too.
  
  Considering my neighbour has been stuck in Oz waiting for over 2 months to get an MIQ slot, will Shaw be back before Easter?
  
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  September 11, 2021 1:58pm
Maggie Pie

The number of times I’ve had people say….
“You’re SUCH a big fat liar, you skinny bitch”

Never worried me in the slightest 😀
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September 11, 2021 11:33am
curry4me

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/09/09/rnc-sue-biden-admin-unconstitutional-vaccinate-mandate/

RNC Sues Over Vaccine Mandate.

The Republican National Committee (RNC) Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel announced Thursday the committee will sue President Joe Biden’s administration for ordering the Labor Department to mandate private businesses require vaccinations for their employees.
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September 11, 2021 11:35am
- Inandout
  
  curry, then we read this.
  https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/who-more-doubtful-about-vaccines-ending-pandemic
  
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  September 11, 2021 1:06pm
  - curry4me
    
    Inandout: That was interesting. It’s a bit like the gun-armour race in WWII.
    
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    September 11, 2021 10:43pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GypGemuKn7k

Canadian Election: Could O’Toole’s Conservative’s Beat Trudeau’s Liberals? – TLDR News.

With the Canadian Election less than two weeks away, we take a look at how the race is shaping up, why Trudeau’s polling figures have been slipping recently, and whether the Conservatives could win this snap election. [8:10]
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September 11, 2021 11:39am
Maggy Wassilieff

Seems like no-one in Left-dom has heard of:

My Big fat Greek Wedding
or
The Big fat Quiz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTP8IG-aBx4

Makes you wonder if they have any grasp of how folk speak.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/big_fat
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September 11, 2021 11:42am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Or My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding…
  
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  September 11, 2021 11:57am
- graham
  
  From memory, we had the same gasps of horror when Jacinda first took over as leader of the Labour Party in 2017 and Gareth Morgan referred to “lipstick on a pig”.
  
  I never did work out if all those people erupting in fury were:
  
  (a) quite well aware of the saying but just pretending it wasn’t a thing because that suited their agenda; or
  
  (b) thick.
  
  18 2
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  September 11, 2021 12:09pm
  - lifesgood
    
    And didn’t people go nuts when some politician said “It ain’t over until the fat lady sings” A well known figure of speech but you wouldn’t expect the uneducated and ignorant to know that.
    
    11 1
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    September 11, 2021 3:03pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Yes, my wife is not keen on the expression “I don’t keep a dog and bark myself”.
    
    2 0
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    September 11, 2021 7:14pm
- MCos
  
  You’re clutching at straws there Maggie if you’re trying to compere what Collins said to movie.
  Sure what she said is a figure of speech, but Collins has a history of fat shaming & Dr Wiles is overweight.
  Apart from that if she knew the background she would know she wasn’t a hypocrite.
  
  6 19
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  September 11, 2021 1:09pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I’m not clutching at straws…
    
    perhaps it is because FAT is not a 4-letter word.
    
    Fat makes your food tasty
    Fat protects old ladies from bone-breakages
    Fat is required for females to be fertile
    Fat is required for healthy nerve and brain function.
    
    14 4
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    September 11, 2021 1:47pm
  - Cinematic
    
    [Deleted – not here. Mod.]
    
    1 1
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    September 11, 2021 1:51pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    You have evidence of Judith Collins having a history of fat shaming MCos, or are you just bullshitting?
    
    15 3
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    September 11, 2021 2:45pm
    - Muttonbird
      
      There is evidence. It’s in the Toby Manhire article on the Spinoff and reprinted in the Herald.
      
      2 11
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      September 11, 2021 4:00pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        It’s embarrassing that a Journalist is unfamiliar with colloquial speech.
        
        Once Newspapers had subeditors who could put folks right about such basics.
        
        12 4
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        September 11, 2021 4:59pm
    - MCos
      
      https://www.odt.co.nz/news/decision-2020/collins-surprised-backlash-obesity-comments
      
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      September 12, 2021 7:54am
MrTips

Pre-review paper. Looked at VAERS reported cases of myocarditis, including the important feature of troponin which is a protein marker of cardiac injury, in children aged 12-17. Compared risk of myocarditis from mRNA vaccine versus risk from getting myocarditis from COViD.

Vaccine had up to 6x higher myocarditis risk cf. COVID, especially worse in boys.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v1
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September 11, 2021 11:42am
- dcrane
  
  “Young males are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems after being jabbed than be hospitalised from coronavirus, study finds”
  
  (preprint study not yet reviewed, supposedly)
  
  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/09/teenage-boys-risk-vaccines-covid/
  https://archive.is/bUtQ3 (for those without access)
  
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  September 11, 2021 4:19pm
NoFax

Ladies and gentlemen of the kiwiblog community, it is obvious now that this government has no real intention to ever stop the lockdowns and the like. So it’s up to us to stop it. May I suggest you talk to to all your contacts and ask them how they think this will end?

A majority think if vaccinated they won’t get Covid. Explain to them that everyone will get Covid as the vaccine doesn’t prevent catching or transmitting Covid. There might be disbelief but point then to the situation in England or Israel. Then ask them then how can we have a zero Covid country? They will figure out the answer is that we are locked up forever. No one wants that.
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September 11, 2021 11:51am
- MCos
  
  “A majority think if vaccinated they won’t get Covid.”
  I think you’re making up your own statistics. Nobody I know is under that misapprehension.
  
  5 9
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  September 11, 2021 12:49pm
  - miltonF
    
    Umm…Joe Biden 6 months ago
    
    “If you get this vaccine you will not get covid”
    
    ??
    
    9 1
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    September 11, 2021 2:29pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      If MCos knows President Biden, surely he would have told us that by now.
      
      1 1
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      September 11, 2021 6:25pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Yes, but I’m sure that MCos meant “anyone in their right mind…” and that disqualifies Biden right there…
        
        Plus, I’ve said this before, until a few months ago, the explanation that getting vaccinated was an absolute protection against getting Covid was the norm. This is rapidly being memory holed and all the usual suspects want to claim that it was always just a way to reduce the severity of the disease once you caught it.
        
        And how much if at all the vaccine reduces one’s chance of catching it isn’t obvious. US authorities claim it is very effective, but figures fro the UK suggest it is ineffective and possibly worse, while Israeli figures suggest a medium but by no means huge effect. The reduction of the seriousness of symptoms does seem to be supported in all three places, but again the US claims it to be far more effective than the figures from the UK and Israel show. And if I had to make a judgement call, I’d have to rate the UK and Israeli data above the US data where it has become so politicised that accurate numbers are possibly not the point of releasing the data.
        
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        September 11, 2021 9:16pm
      - Batman
        
        As VirtualMark posted just this afternoon, 5.6 billion shots administered and the studies continue to show that the vaccines are safe and highly effective.
        
        95% effective on average for those aged 18-64, and 79%ish for those aged 65+.
        
        Of course you choose the data that you like, and suits your argument. Hopelessly politicised eh? ? Great description of your takes on US politics and covid.
        
        2 4
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        September 11, 2021 9:28pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    I have a small team. 20 staff. Minimum salary $65k. Maximum $185k. Mean $112k. Only two understood that being vaccinated would not 100% protect them from a COVID-19 infection.
    
    2 0
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    September 11, 2021 10:20pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I’m playing the long game…
  
  Ask folks to check back with you in 12 months’ time.
  
  See if they’ve figured out how to get out of the Lockdown merry-go-round by then.
  
  7 1
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  September 11, 2021 1:51pm
- dcrane
  
  Too many will continue to argue that we’re stuck waiting until a larger fraction are vaccinated, or alternatively until our rather limited medical facilities are expanded. I don’t believe the rhetoric around needing 80% vaxxed though. If most people 40+ are vaccinated I’ll bet the outcome would be acceptable with a Level 2 style existence although the hospitals would indeed be very busy.
  
  3 1
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  September 11, 2021 4:17pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    The official line will be 80% fully vaccinated until just before we reach that figure, then it will become 75% with 2 jabs plus a booster, and if we approach that it will be 75% with 3 jabs plus a booster, and then….you get the picture.
    
    5 0
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    September 11, 2021 9:18pm
lazza

COLLINS “LEADS?” … (HAH!) THE NATS FURTHER INTO THE SWAMP.

Cop this from Manhire … sad but true.

Quote:

Key and Bill English and others must weep at the sight of a years-long project to cement National as the sensible voice of a modern middle New Zealand collapsing a little further with each spring-loaded outburst from Collins.

You can understand why National MPs might shrink from the idea of another destabilising leadership change.

You can understand why those who see themselves as potential leaders might have been calculating that it would be best to wait until after the next election.

But when the door is unhinged so far from its frame that it’s flown to another dimension, when your reputation as a party is so rapidly corroding, when your leader appears glued to the dirty politics poison of years past, when your leader is indistinguishable from a pseudonymous Twitter account ending in six random digits, when the country remains in a serious crisis that demands serious people, we’re fast arriving at a point where National demanding anything but change at the top is not just foolish, it’s irresponsible.
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September 11, 2021 11:53am
MrTips

USA hospital doc and managers caught on ZOOM plotting to inflate hospital numbers to “make it more scary”.
https://nationalfile.com/doctor-wants-to-be-scary-to-the-public-and-inflate-covid-numbers-if-you-dont-get-vaccinated-you-know-youre-going-to-die/
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September 11, 2021 11:56am
- Gravelroad
  
  @Mr Tips-
  More scary? Come to a NZ hospital and have sex with a (presumably) sick person in a ward room.
  At the risk of being outed as a moralistic wowser, is this OK?
  Why would a person who is unwell enough to be taking up a hospital bed in Level 4 covid 19 conditions want to have sex in a room with fellow sick patients looking on, or at least listening in?
  Just had your appendix out? Which side should I lie on?
  Heart surgery. Lie on front or back?
  Cancer treatment. Dunno.
  If the “patient” is well enough to have sexual encounters whilst hospitalised, should they even be there?
  
  9 1
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  September 11, 2021 12:26pm
  - Okahu
    
    Gravelroad. Have you considered an epic case of priapism? Might have been on doctors orders! Have some compassion man!
    
    5 1
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    September 11, 2021 1:42pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Might be a good cure if you could pull it off…..
      
      0 0
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      September 11, 2021 9:19pm
- dcrane
  
  If she could have controlled herself, the clip wouldn’t be that bad. It’s appropriate to count people who are occupying hospital beds due to covid-caused complications. But ridiculous to suggest that the public ought to be told they’re going to die if they don’t get the vaccine. That’s the “we can lie because we know better” mentality Fauci used when he thought it made sense to tell people they ought not be wearing masks because (supposedly) he was worried about a mask shortage.
  
  5 1
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  September 11, 2021 12:57pm
Unity

Happy birthday, David. Hope you have a lovely day.
7 1
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September 11, 2021 12:10pm
I remember when

Limited worker pool proving a challenge:
The Meat Industry is struggling to fill its worker rosters for the coming season.
Meat Industry Assn CE says some plants are 100 employees short.
This shortage is prevalent in Bay of Plenty, HB, Manawatu-Whanganui and Canterbury.
Shortage of halal workers is ‘critical’ as about 43% of red meat exports are halal-certified.
6 0
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September 11, 2021 12:11pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Halal, another, long standing scam.
  
  1 0
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  September 11, 2021 7:16pm
- Ed Snack
  
  Basic problem for many is that for H&S reasons, workers in an area where there’s machinery and knives (ie a meat plant of any type) have to be clear of drugs, so any applicants get tested.
  
  Apparently around 20-25% never bother turning up for the test (knowing they will fail) and around 75% – 80% of those who do get tested, fail.
  
  As the employers will get the fines and possible other criminal sanctions if anyone is injured who has a positive drug test, they simply can’t afford to hire such people.
  
  It isn’t necessarily easy or particularly salubrious work, but an experienced worker easily qualifies to be a full time worker and can earn reasonable money, especially if qualified for certain positions.
  
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  September 11, 2021 9:25pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

https://thepoliticalinsider.com/trump-admits-there-would-be-a-major-downside-to-running-in-2024-cnn-would-be-relevant-again/?
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September 11, 2021 12:31pm
- curry4me
  
  Steve Otto(North Shore) Well, every good has a potential downside. I guess I’ll learn to live with it.
  
  5 1
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  September 11, 2021 12:46pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Woke = loser.
https://rumble.com/vmbpcb-trump-being-woke-means-youre-a-loser.html?
9 1
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September 11, 2021 12:43pm
Jack5

While New Zealand demotes the role of English in favour of Maori(State TV and State radio lead the charge), Taiwan is increasing the role of English.

The Taiwanese Ministry of Education has issued guidelines for teaching English. These include the goal of having 60 per cent of schools use English as a the sole medium of instruction for the language by 2024.

Taiwan has a goal of becoming a dual language country: Mandarin and English.

New Zealand, with its Woke goals, has transformed into a downwardly-mobile country, in the jargon puts if for a person, or people, or a country, going down-hill.

Taiwan is rising in international importance with its leadership in semiconductor manufacturing, which some economists liken in importance to oil. Taiwan, led by its biggest firm, TSMC, makes three-fifths of the world’s chips.

An international shortage of chips is hampering car and truck manufacturing and more than a hundred other industries as varied as making air-conditioning equipment and producing of steel.

Taiwan has the world’s fifth biggest holdings of foreign reserves and gold, behind China,Japan, Switzerland, and Saudi- Arabia.

And Taiwan sees the English language as important. Don’t know what it’s doing in languages for the island’s tiny and remote hill tribes from which Polynesians descended.
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September 11, 2021 12:48pm
- Paulus
  
  Am told that Shortland Street has now fallen to Maori language and their children’s Kapa Haka.
  
  5 1
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  September 11, 2021 1:29pm
ecco

Notice that the NZH has chosen not to hide the Spinoff opinion piece about Collins and the Wiles transgression behind their paywall.

Selective and deliberate ploy by the NZH editor to get pro Arden/Wiles comments over the weekend that are free for all to read. I guess it’s all part of the criteria required by Ardern in order for NZH to access the media fund. You will never find a right wing article on their free articles on NZH.
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September 11, 2021 12:53pm
Fletch

Rose McGowan totally nukes Hillary Clinton in a tweet –

“@HillaryClinton You are a shadow leader in service of evil. You are the enemy of what is good, right and moral. You represent no flag, no country, no soul. You eat hope, you twist minds. I’ve been in a hotel room with your husband and here comes the bomb.”

That was a week ago, and nothing more has been tweeted. Maybe Hillary sicced her goons on McGowan.
10 1
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September 11, 2021 12:54pm
- Inandout
  
  Fletch, poor Rose, that elevator took off before she had time to enter the cabin.
  
  1 1
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  September 11, 2021 1:10pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Bad news Auckland….

You’re back to where you were 1 week ago.
15 0
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September 11, 2021 1:09pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggy, shouldn’t laugh but then remember that old saying about getting what you wish for.
  
  6 3
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  September 11, 2021 1:11pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I’m not laughing.
    I think they’re in lockdown for another 3 weeks, at least.
    
    12 0
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    September 11, 2021 1:55pm
    - DeepBlue
      
      They will never get below 5 cases a day. A leaky bucket always leaks no matter the bandaid. Too many people lie and consider themselves above the law. Ryan Bridge was right when he talked (metaphorically) about affairs.
      
      The only question is how long is it going to take for Aucklander’s to realise this and revolt.
      
      7 1
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      September 11, 2021 2:38pm
- Observer of Life
  
  Maggy: How convenient the numbers have risen today after 30 odd Police arrived at AKL’s southern protection border yesterday? Ooh.. sorry AKL, no lowering of the level on Tuesday. Lucky we have the manpower in place. Geeesh
  
  6 0
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  September 11, 2021 4:06pm
- dcrane
  
  How long before the rest of the country decides they like having Auckland sealed off? 🙂
  
  5 2
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  September 11, 2021 4:12pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING…..

‘US OPEN’ woman’s final tomorrow – will be a great watch!
Sooo pleased to see Naomi out of it….all she ever does is moan.
My moneys on Emma. Big girl, but certainly the best looking.

https://instagram.com/p/CTF6sUrAZOL/
4 1
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September 11, 2021 1:37pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  A Phillipina/ Ecuadorian vs. a Roumanian/ Chinese. The Woke media are wetting themselves.
  
  2 1
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  September 11, 2021 7:21pm
Maggie Pie

BREAKING….

Yet ANOTHER laundromat in SA identified as a ‘location of interest’ 🙁

Never once been a mention of the shops in Vicky Ave.

Just saying.
10 1
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September 11, 2021 2:09pm
- Muttonbird
  
  How do the people of Remuera do their washing in level 4, with no servants allowed onsite?
  
  4 12
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  September 11, 2021 3:55pm
  - artemisia
    
    The housekeeper lives in the on site cottage, along with the gardener. Sadly the pool boy is not allowed.
    
    11 1
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    September 11, 2021 4:36pm
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Plenty of time on our hands now Mutton Bird, just had to dig out the instruction manual on the washing machine. And oven. It’s been quite pleasing to be able to get back to ones roots and do jobs that the great unwashed do…..
    
    4 0
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    September 11, 2021 9:12pm
Nickc2

Oh, Shit, it’s being reported that Bumpling Biden has used a US Drone to take out a US Aide Worker. If true, how can he dig his way out of this?
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2021/09/biden-the-war-criminal-in-effort-to-look-tough-he-authorised-drone-strike-on-wrong-guy.html
Could Kamala do any worse?
Wot’s a Drone bro I think she asked Lloyd J. Austin III (US Secretary of Defense)? /sarc
9 2
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September 11, 2021 2:15pm
Tony Stuart

Spotted on Twitter this morning:

I now live in a country where an elderly man has to watch the burial of his wife of 53 years, from the roadside yet the head of University of Auckland’s Bioluminescent Superbugs Lab @SiouxsieW is free to frolic at the beach with a friend.

Priorities seriously f**ked up

The final statement is particularly pertinent. When things eventually return to Level One, I’m going to have a whole series of memorial services to attend for friends who have passed away during this lockdown period. That families have been unable to properly grieve over the last month is one of the worst aspects of lockdown.
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September 11, 2021 2:17pm
- Cinematic
  
  I think this is definitely amongst the cruellest aspect of lockdowns.
  
  18 1
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  September 11, 2021 3:05pm
- kowtow
  
  Burying our dead has got to be one of the most fundamental personal things a person can do .
  
  Right down through history and across cultures.
  
  And this regime has stopped us .
  
  13 2
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  September 11, 2021 4:11pm
- Inandout
  
  Tony, this wouldn’t (normally) happen if the burial involved a Maori person, they would just push themselves in regardless. If that means whites are gutless, then yes they generally are.
  
  6 1
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  September 11, 2021 5:31pm
- [email protected]
  
  Not getting to be at the burial of your spouse, especially one of 53 years is unforgivable. Absolutely disgusting. I have disliked a few New Zealand governments and New Zealand prime minister in the past but this lot takes it to a new level.
  
  7 0
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  September 11, 2021 6:37pm
All_on_Red

https://babylonbee.com/news/more-red-states-pass-abortion-laws-in-hopes-of-triggering-travel-ban-from-portland

Hope Steveee Todd realise’s this is Satire and doesn’t Fact Check with his bigoted mates at Pathos
7 5
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September 11, 2021 2:25pm
Maggie Pie

BREAKING….

WOW!! One of the best OPEN semis ever….some magik rallies.

Exactly as i predicted – Novak wiped the floor with Zevrev 😛

https://twitter.com/usopen/status/1436488774855258118
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September 11, 2021 3:18pm
Observer of Life

RIP to all those who died 20 years ago in New York. It’s still hard to accept those images beaming into our living rooms were real.
16 0
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September 11, 2021 4:16pm
- ABS4EVA
  
  RIP The Truth
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nyogTsrsgI&t=3s
  [Architects and Engineers: Solving the Mystery of Building 7 – w/ Ed Asner]
  
  http://www.ae911truth.org
  
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  September 11, 2021 6:27pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126354327/covid19-donations-fly-in-for-dr-siouxsie-wiles-research-after-judith-collins-calls-her-a-hypocrite
If this Siouxsie Wiles and her friend are so convinced that what they did was OK, will they be prepared to repeat it , and let the MSM know, to show that there was really no problem?
8 0
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September 11, 2021 5:50pm
- fernglas
  
  “Dr Siouxsie Wiles
  @SiouxsieW
  Replying to
  @SiouxsieW
  The reason I am open about my values is so that people understand the lens through which I evaluate evidence. Because if a scientist has told you they are completely objective they are deluding themselves.”
  Siouxsie Wiles explains to herself why she lacks the qualifications to be taken seriously as an expert
  
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  September 11, 2021 6:27pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    and yet
    Ernest Rutherford
    Albert Einstein
    Marie Currie
    Alexander Flemming
    Issac Newton
    Nichola Tesla
    Have political affiliations that are still a mystery to me and I suspect most people.
    But the world (not just a small Island chain in the South Pacific) has still heard of them and their deeds.
    
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    September 11, 2021 9:56pm
DeepBlue

Even Kelvin Davis has thrown in the towel. Don’t blame the govn, we’ve given millions to Maori Health providers to increase vax rates.

My interpretation is:
1. Once again Labour think just giving money to a problem is the solution.
2. Labour are getting ready to open the country as people have had enough time and money to get vaccinated if they want it.
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September 11, 2021 5:57pm
- septic skeptic
  
  Honestly, why does anybody care how many people of whatever persuasion get vaccinated? It’s personal choice. Vaccinate the people who want it. The rest can live with their choice. Whether they are relying on God, vit c and d, natural immunity, youth, ivermectin or blind d luck – IT’S THEIR CHOICE.
  
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  September 11, 2021 6:18pm
  - kevn
    
    @septic… add Novavax or Valneva. I think you might be surprised at how many folk are waiting for those.
    
    4 0
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    September 11, 2021 7:32pm
fernglas

Vaccine adverse events in NZ affect Pakeha at almost twice the rate of Maori (plus or minus a bit for vaccination rates)
https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/safety-report-25.asp
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September 11, 2021 6:20pm
K

Of course the opposition should be publicly criticising Siouxsie Wiles. She is a partisan political actor who has done something she built her entire public persona telling people was naughty.
11 0
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September 11, 2021 7:57pm
[email protected]

If hospitals do get inundated by Covid19 patients and can’t handle the volume is it going to be first come first serve, put the neediest at the front or are some people going to have priority based on their wealth, political affiliation or ethnicicy?
5 0
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September 11, 2021 8:19pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Assume the worst and take precautions.
  
  4 0
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  September 11, 2021 8:53pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Perhaps the Crown Plaza isn’t the origin of Auckland’s outbreak..

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300405115/covid19-more-positive-cases-at-middlemore-hospital-confirmed
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September 11, 2021 8:54pm
- Cinematic
  
  It’s a curious coincidence that since that special covid envoy arrived Middlemore keeps popping up in the news?
  
  0 0
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  September 11, 2021 10:13pm
ABS4EVA

Jesus are the Gangs of NZ Pathetic or what

Patched Pansies is what I call them

All tough in a group beating up elderly, woman etc
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September 11, 2021 9:56pm

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