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September 20, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 20 September 2021

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General Debate

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Batman

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
“there’s no freedom anymore.”

https://twitter.com/NumbersMuncher/status/1438301384848379911?s=19

February 1984, the tyrannical government comes for everyone’s freedoms by seeking to stop them dying in traffic accidents… By wearing seatbelts.

A fascinating look at how stubbornness doesn’t change, only the topic!
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December 20, 2020 10:34am
- Master Mariner
  
  What has seat belts and personel safety got to do with this?
  Its a personel choice.
  How is closing down all the country correlate to to this and @#$% seatbelts?
  
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  September 20, 2021 3:12pm
- Bevan
  
  All things being equal when you crash your car at high speed, the injuries you sustain will be a lot greater and more expensive if you are not wearing a seatbelt, and considering it will be everyones tax dollars paying for your care – you’ll have to forgive me for preferring you wear your damn seatbelt!
  
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  September 20, 2021 5:00pm
- dcrane
  
  How many people were told wear your seatbelts – in your own private life – or lose your job and healthcare? People are being forced to vaccinate in the states – and even if they work remotely or have natural immunity from previous infection (the latter being like wearing an even BETTER seatbelt).
  
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  September 20, 2021 6:58pm
Warren

Does anyone really think Jacinda Ardern is prepared to throw her votes away in Auckland and the Waikato by dropping Auckland to level three on Tuesday Evening and going right against the wishes of her Science Team, I very much doubt it because she is stubborn has the belief that she is invincible and it’s more about her dream with stupidity that she can eradicate the virus.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126428836/covid19-decision-day-for-auckland-experts-say-level-change-a-calculated-risk-even-before-waikato-outbreak
You have to ask yourself why would she not keep the lockdown in place as the number of new people infected rose to 27 yesterday from a small number on the teens the previous three days.
This pandemic has always been about Jacinda Ardern our Prime Minister and how she can keep herself and Labour as the Government so a leopard never changes it spots so why would our Prime Minister suddenly change her view.
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September 20, 2021 8:00am
- Wayne Mapp
  
  I reckon they will go to Level 3. All the signalling from government has been consistent on this. I appreciate most commenters on this site don’t actually tune in to listen to the PM, Ministers, and Dr Bloomfield. I do. I want to know what they are thinking and how they respond to questions.
  Based on what I have heard from them, it is my view they are going to confirm last weeks decision. They consistently say the outbreak “is under control”, even though it has a long tail. They may put Magatangi and the area north of SH27 under Level 3.
  We will soon know.
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:59am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Wayne, I reckon people in Auckland are getting pissed off, Ardern can see that, and Level 3 will protect a few votes. All those young lasses that love her so much, but are home with a couple of young’uns will be getting a wee bit tired of being stuck in one place….
    
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    September 20, 2021 10:38am
    - MCos
      
      Fathers are at home too.
      
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      September 20, 2021 7:30pm
  - Nukuleka
    
    I’m not sure why you even condescend to read the comments sections on Kiwiblog, Wayne, when clearly you hold no truck with the bone-headed thickos who post their opinions. [Deleted, unreasonable attack on character of another poster – Mod]
    
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    September 20, 2021 10:45am
  - Chris2
    
    Wayne, you will never know what Ardern is thinking from watching the daily 1pm press conference because 90% of everything she says is read from a scripted speech written on the 9th floor by unknown flunky’s.
    
    Next time watch her, and you will will see she is always head down reading from a speech written for her. There is almost no personal authenticity in anything she says at these daily lectures.
    
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    September 20, 2021 10:48am
    - Cassandra
      
      Don’t believe it, Chris. Others might write it but she believes it. Watch her for long enough, as Wayne does, and you’ll get the picture alright. It is carefully scripted but totally authentic inauthenticity – “if you can fake sincerity…………”
      
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      September 20, 2021 11:03am
  - Warren
    
    So todays decision means that Auckland should have been at level three last week when the numbers were lower than what they are now as it still has a long tail.
    
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    September 20, 2021 4:41pm
    - Stellaboxer
      
      They’re making it up as they go along. Baker is coming to the conclusion he is yesterday’s boy and Hendy knows he’s out in the cold. Ardern is holding a wolf by its ears and I’m settling down with some popcorn.
      
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      September 20, 2021 7:35pm
- Paulus
  
  Grant Robertson seems now to be the media day to day Government expert in all matters re Vaccinations and borrowing Billions.
  
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  September 20, 2021 10:59am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Well he has got an art degree so I guess he knows what he’s doing
    
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    September 20, 2021 7:37pm
krazykiwi

New Zealand’s bone headed isolationists strategy has a new chapter this morning with a Willy Wonker-esque golden ticket lottery for the privilege of being able to enter New Zealand.

This fixes nothing.

We continue to leave NZers stranded overseas, some in desperate circumstances without medical care, or living rough on the streets of foreign cities, or without money, visas or protection.

We continue to breach the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) of which we are a signatory, and we continue to breach s18 of our own Bill of Rights Act.

We continue to allow government officials to arbitrarily allocate MIQ spots to the likes of sundry sports teams, trade show junket attendees, and The Wiggles.

But most importantly, we continue to pursue MIQ despite evidence that eradication is a failed strategy.
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September 20, 2021 8:00am
- Master Mariner
  
  Absolutely KK. See post below.
  
  Also how are NZ citizens getting out of Afghanistan should be front and center of MSM in my mind.
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:16am
  - sealegs
    
    Was sorry to read that due to the compete clusterfuck that is MIQ you have given up on working overseas. I got lucky and managed to catch a lift on a ship enroute to nz, so 13 days into a 28 day voyage. It’s very unusual being a passenger and not crew I’m enjoying not having to work after 316 days straight of having to.
    
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    September 20, 2021 1:11pm
    - Master Mariner
      
      Fantastic Sealegs, I see its getting harder to do to get on PAX (Passenger) vessels. Good job mate.
      The shit will seatle and common sense prevails.
      Thanks mate.
      
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      September 20, 2021 3:29pm
- krazykiwi
  
  So no golden ticket for our daughter and son-in-law. Looks like more than 30,000 people were vying for 3,000 spaces. While waiting in queue, the MIQ site laughingly says: –
  
  Please note: there may be hundreds of people ahead of you in the queue, and there will only be a limited number of rooms available during the room release. This means you may not secure a room this time.
  
  Emphasis mine. How about some truth? It’s thousands or tens of thousands ahead in the queue.
  
  I have a bit more to share on how illegal MIQ is. Gathering the material over the next couple of days.
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:25am
  - Paulus
    
    But understand MIQ placings are now divided into three categories.
    Greens and Labour Politicals
    Sports teams
    the Rest – that’s most of those waiting for a ballot place – like Lotto.
    
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    September 20, 2021 11:03am
  - Lexicon
    
    A friend in Europe wanting to return to NZ before Christmas describes the same experience this morning (at the time 25,000 people in the queue): “So they are going to piss off 22,000 who may never vote for Cindi again.” I’m not so sure he’s right about that last bit.
    
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    September 20, 2021 11:51am
- Clownworld
  
  Krazykiwi apologies case of thumbly thumbs not a downtick, just pushing wrong button. Add a virtual tick.
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:31am
- Stellaboxer
  
  Be kind and keep looking the other way
  
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  September 20, 2021 7:38pm
Yabster

Petition to keep our countries rightful name and to make Princess commit to it (unlikely).

https://www.hobsonspledge.nz/new_zealand_not_aotearoa
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September 20, 2021 8:03am
- alloytoo
  
  perhaps if we can print it in crayon?
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:30am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Your signature on this petition?
    
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    September 20, 2021 5:39pm
- artemisia
  
  There as been a lot of media coverage of the Maori Party’s sort of parallel petition – WOW 50 THOUSAND SIGNATURES!!!
  
  Hobson’s Pledge petition? So far crickets.
  
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  September 20, 2021 10:31am
  - sooty
    
    Do they run Dominion voting machines too?
    
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    September 20, 2021 12:13pm
Benedict Yu

Today will be tricky. Yesterday’s events showed the covid cases expanding. So if Auckland goes to Level 3 today, why could that have not happened 2 weeks ago?

On the other hand if they stay at Level 4 they will run out of any goodwill in Auckland.
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September 20, 2021 8:04am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Hendy seemed to be gently persuading them to stay at level 4 in the weekend – have to ensure elimination…
  
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  September 20, 2021 8:17am
- Paulus
  
  Thought that there is very little goodwill left in Auckland over this and unlikely to get better as cannot be anything will be 3+ with restrictions.
  
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  September 20, 2021 8:23am
- Prince
  
  Yes, politics vs honesty (saving lives, follow the science, country’s health is foremost).
  I know where my money is.
  
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  September 20, 2021 8:25am
  - Spoff
    
    There is no more “The” to science.
    It is now political science (computer modelling aka “garbage in garbage out”) versus evidence-based science.
    
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    September 20, 2021 9:42am
- ecco
  
  Will be interesting to see if Ardern chooses to lock down the whole of Auckland for yet further time this week. 99.5% of the population here is complying with this house arrest, whilst it’s clear that a small subset of HER constituency, with covid, are the ones ignoring the rules and spreading the virus. The Waikato cases last night prove this. This is not the team of 5 million’s problem. It’s hers alone.
  
  Meanwhile she’s taking down not just the Auckland economy but the whole NZ economy, through supply chain issues, cratering of Air NZ and through people not being able to travel for business and losing contracts within NZ, like the Amazon pull out of Lord of the Rings filming. Not to mention the mental health of everyone in the Auckland area subjected to this insane strategy.
  
  Of course we won’t see anything visionary or anything like a way forward, just more bluster and putting out of her so called ‘experts’ to deflect blame for what has happened and trying to justify the only blunt instrument she knows and likes to use – LOCKDOWN. Ardern is truly boxed into her a corner. Of her own making.
  
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  September 20, 2021 8:37am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Absolutely,
    “LOCKDOWN. Ardern is truly boxed into her a corner. Of her own making.”
    Anyone with half a brain could see this was ALWAYS
    going to be a foregone conclusion.
    
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    September 20, 2021 9:18am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Ecco, dunno about 99.5%. Saturday, beaut day here. Family walk. Did about 11 km. Included 2 beaches. The car parks at the beaches were 3/4’s full. People were not swimming, but were picnicking, kicking about in water etc. So house arrest? I think not.
    
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    September 20, 2021 10:36am
    - ecco
      
      Got plenty of cops patrolling the streets round where I live which is an inner city suburb where I doubt anyone in spreading the virus. ie law abiding citizens. They need to divert those cars to the South Auckland/Manukau area where the issues clearly are. Notice how we aren’t getting any stats on suburbs/who’s in hospital/suburbs where the waste water testing is indicating covid is circulating.
      
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      September 20, 2021 11:40am
      - sooty
        
        Do you blame her electorate?
        After all where is her face?
        She did a runner and didn’t stay!
        Could have zoomed!
        But then she would have missed out on the PoT!
        Aswell as early electioneering!
        
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        September 20, 2021 12:21pm
- RockyJ
  
  The government are trapped by their own lack of urgency in vaccination roll out and lack of ICU capacity into only being able to use lock downs as a tool to fight Covid.
  The problem is that we, the public, are paying the price.
  Maybe Jacinda will be able to spin her own incompetence to her advantage with another catchy slogan. Something like “we are you?”
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:00am
  - Happy1
    
    Get vaccinated and the shortage of I.C.U. beds won’t concern you. Everyone knows we won’t have anywhere near enough capacity to cope with the demand once it get away and has the opportunity to avoid the problem. In Aussie, almost all those in I.C.U. are unvaccinated.
    
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    September 20, 2021 9:44am
    - MCos
      
      One person in hospital in NZ with delta has one vaccine dose.
      
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      September 20, 2021 9:56am
    - DeepBlue
      
      Won’t concern you until you can’t get into hospital for your car crash, heart attack, cancer or elective surgery.
      
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      September 20, 2021 10:19am
      - Don Beckett
        
        You can’t now. It’s a total cockup.
        
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        September 20, 2021 10:38am
      - sooty
        
        How many people are going to die early, because of been turned away from Hospitals and specialists, because of the covid epidemic that’s not there!
        Who’s shoulders should they be on!
        
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        September 20, 2021 12:29pm
  - MCos
    
    America was far ahead of us at cranking up vaccinations.
    However they have stalled at 63% of the whole population with one dose & we will pass them shortly.
    
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    September 20, 2021 9:53am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Really need to compare the percentages of those over, say, 14 or so as most places don’t yet recommend vaccination for the young and the percentage in the population can vary quite a bit.
      
      In the US, despite the rhetoric and propaganda from the media, the primary unvaccinated group consists of younger urban blacks. One would think from the coverage that all the refuseniks were rural mouth breathing sub-normal trumpists.
      
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      September 20, 2021 11:26am
      - MCos
        
        I don’t care who is or isn’t getting vaccinated.
        They’re all Americans, residents or otherwise living there.
        
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        September 20, 2021 7:37pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      A shit load of Americans have had covid, and quite rationally choose no vaccine. Most hospital staff had covid in 2020
      
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      September 20, 2021 11:44am
      - Ed Snack
        
        One assessment is that the US is at over 82% with combined vaccine plus natural immunity. That’s from Veterans Hospital data, with the caution that the data may not be representative of the country as a whole. But it is probably not too far off for the over 16 demographic.
        
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        September 20, 2021 12:56pm
      - Batman
        
        You’re 2.4 times more likely to be reinfected than with a vaccine.
        
        Probably best to bet on vaccines rather than very variable natural immunity. Though the science on natural immunity is evolving constantly so it’s not to be ruled out as a helpful factor!
        
        https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html
        
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        September 20, 2021 1:04pm
      - MCos
        
        Lloyd Burr, NewsHub UK correspondent contracted the bug twice. https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/300391716/covid19-you-dont-know-how-lucky-you-are-new-zealand
        
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        September 20, 2021 7:46pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Everyone keeps going on about “ICU Capacity”. Show me any time during this Shamdemic that ICU wards were overloaded & unable to cope in NZ. Overseas in odd places, but in NZ ??
    
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    September 20, 2021 10:37am
    - RockyJ
      
      Our ICU capacity is the second lowest in the OECD and half that of Australia. It is currently full. Even if we are 100% vaccinated there will still be Covid cases and some will need intensive care. The only reason this had not been a problem yet is because of our hard lockdowns.
      It takes time to build and staff this capacity. Over the last 18 months the Health Minister has been focussing on implementing his apartheid health system.
      
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      September 20, 2021 11:08am
      - Happy1
        
        NZs low I.C.U.capacity isn’t going to change and you need to factor that in when choosing to risk vaccination or Covid. At the moment there is near zero Erik [risk] from covid but that will change rapidly once it get our. There is 100% certainty that you will be exposed.
        
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        September 20, 2021 12:24pm
      - Sacha
        
        ICU capacity – maybe we are, in general, a healthier society than some others. We are less crowded, better fed, more active in out doors pursuits. The ICU capacity copes in ordinary times – and it seems that we are in ordinary times right now.
        If people were treated with a set protocol by their GPs immediately they report symptoms, there would be even fewer hospital admissions into isolation wards.
        To me, this is so glaringly obvious, it amazes me that the MoH don’t see it too.
        Experience in India:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43pOPZx-LQY
        
        and in Southern California
        :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe1TqxvXKTs
        
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        September 20, 2021 12:49pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      The much derided lockdowns have kept our hospitalisation rates very low. yes I know there are heaps of other costs both economic and freedom-wise but that’s why our ICU beds are not under stress.
      
      Assume we go like NSW (well Sydney really). They have 1200-odd daily cases 1000 people in hospital and 250-odd in ICU beds. Divide these numbers by three for Auckland. That would be 300 in hospital and 80-odd in ICU. NZ has about 275 hospital beds in the whole country.
      
      The sums are not flash. I am impressed by your willingness to take on this level of risk for all of us.
      
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      September 20, 2021 11:16am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Ian, there were around 40-50 more ICU beds available 18 months ago, those alone would be extremely useful if Covid gets out of control, no ?
        
        And maybe if NZ invested in cheap treatments for Covid sufferers from the moment they were diagnosed instead of just waiting for them to get seriously ill, we’d survive rather better ?
        
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        September 20, 2021 11:29am
      - sooty
        
        You mean like Ivermetcin. That’s cheap. Costs bugger all.
        
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        September 20, 2021 12:31pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Sooty, more than just Ivermectin, there’s a whole protocol for early treatment that we could use. That includes IVM, HCQ (as appropriate), Vitamin D3, Vitamin C, specific anti-coagulants, antibiotics against opportunistic infections, and sometimes some steroids for inflammation.
        
        Plus there is the Regeron monoclonal antibodies that have been shown to be very effective especially at later stages than the above largely preventative treatment. However Regeneron maybe in relatively short supply due to US demand.
        
        We return to the question, why isn’t the MoH investing in these simple and cheap options ? Even if near worthless (which seems unlikely even with the limited data we have), it is safe, cheap, and would generate a placebo effect plus kudos for doing something that seems effective.
        
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        September 20, 2021 12:53pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        @Ed
        
        It would be a bit novel if ivermectin were to be prescribed on a large scale as a covid treatment without Medsafe approval. The data on which this approval would be based (randomised controlled trials) does not exist.
        
        If you think that we should bin the requirement for Medsafe approval here, you are essentially saying that we should get rid of Medsafe. Drug safety and fitness for purpose could be based on a net search of what is being used in Mexico, Peru, Brazil and India. Most of the “studies” from these places are trash. That said there is a large one from Mexico that is definitely thought provoking.
        
        So suppose I import some Ivermectin. Assuming it gets caught at Customs, they will ask for a prescription from an NZ medic before they release it. (Been there done that with non-subsidised Medsafe-approved diabetic medication). The medic is not going to take my word for what the dose should be, when it should be administered and what the potential side effects are.
        
        I know about “off-label” prescription although I’m not sure what Medsafe would do if it became apparent that the scrips were essentially all off-label.
        
        If you guys really want to see ivermectin in the tool kit, then you should be organising some sort of lobbying effort rather than just anonymously moaning on Kiwiblog. Maybe someone could write a KB guest post for a start ….
        
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        September 20, 2021 12:59pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Most of the ‘overloading’ of overseas hospitals fit one or more of the following categories.
      
      – Routine seasonal overload (Northern Italy where their poorly equipped hospitals are overwhelmed with respiratory conditions every second winter)
      
      – Sensationalised by the media (NHS many times despite temporary overflow hospitals sitting empty)
      
      – Downright fraud (eg the mass graves in US)
      
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      September 20, 2021 11:46am
      - Ian Boag
        
        Sydney? Which one is it?. Fraud, winter or MSM sensationalisation …… ?
        
        The NSW govt puts up the lists on a regular basis.
        
        It is what it is.
        
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        September 20, 2021 12:38pm
  - ecco
    
    Did you see Angry Andy on the Nation yesterday thinks he’s got the ICU bed shortage sussed. Went and bought a whole lot of ventilators and thinks the problem’s solved. Only problem is he doesn’t have enough trained staff to run them.
    
    Cecilia Robinson highlighted it in her NZH piece (sorry this one will definitely be behind their paywall as it’s criticising Ardern and her covid response) saying that there are 240 nursing vacancies at Auckland Hospital at the moment. Not surprised.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/covid-delta-outbreak-cecilia-robinson-the-three-things-the-government-must-do-right-now/S6WMDTWOTQDTAUEJOUKBNOCRLQ/
    
    Imagine what the situation’s going to be like when borders finally do open up. A whole load of NZ nurses will move to Australia. Along with the rest of the young people who’ve had a gutsful of this regime. Everyone must know a few young people that are planning their escape.
    
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    September 20, 2021 11:48am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Shaun (80,000 will die) Hendy would like to stay in level 4 until Christmas 2022!
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:35am
- Paulus
  
  Simple
  Politicals versus Medicals
  
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  September 20, 2021 11:04am
kevn

Get Ian Taylor, Steven Joyce and Tony Ryall on to it.
Logistics, finance and health covered.
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September 20, 2021 8:05am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Indeed; you get the feeling that Sir Ian, despite coming from the creative sector which is generally supportive of the PM, has really gone off her in recent weeks as he has lost contracts. This morning’s fiasco with the MIQ bed release won’t have done his mood any good either; he totally dismantled Hipkins’ argument that developing a points-based MIQ allocation system would be too hard, suggesting it shouldn’t be more than a few hours work if the right people were contracted to do it.
  
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  September 20, 2021 12:30pm
Benedict Yu

“As vaccination rates continue to climb, that also provides options such as a pilot for businesses to sponsor isolation at home for specified fully vaccinated employees, and into next year, potentially a varied regime of a mix of MIQ and isolate at home options,” Hipkins said in a statement.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/126428893/no-way-home-for-workers-travelling-overseas-on-business-without-miq-spots

Now I would guess that “into next year” everyone who wants to be vaccinated will be vaccinated. So is this future dystopia that Hipkins describes the new normal? Permanent quarantine requirements for travellers? To achieve what? Oh yes the mythical “elimination”.
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September 20, 2021 8:05am
- Cinematic
  
  Oh no don’t show any trust in the citizens!
  
  Keep locking them up Chris. You guys have saved NZ by locking it up, repeatedly. You guys are brilliant at lockdowns. Naturals.
  
  I can hear the whining from the terrified ‘covid is the end of civilisation’ drones already.
  
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  September 20, 2021 8:22am
- Inandout
  
  BY, and while Jacinda is on another roll she may rule that masks will be worn at all levels. This won’t turn out well because with summer coming they will be discarded like used tissues.
  
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  September 20, 2021 8:27am
  - tf78
    
    Inandout – They are used tissues.
    
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    September 20, 2021 12:09pm
- Master Mariner
  
  Yep, Its called a plan alongside a Risk Assessment which has been totally lacking since the start.
  You can use a RA to “Modify” the plan but without a plan you are just “winging” it.
  Sound familiar.
  No surprises and now “boxed” into a corner either way.
  
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  September 20, 2021 8:28am
- ecco
  
  I’d say, judging by the numbers of vaccine appointment spots available in the next month, that everyone who wants to get vaccinated is already in the system. There is no need to stretch out this regime till next year.
  Why has saliva testing not been approved? Because it would be another form of having to relinquish control for Ardern.
  
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  September 20, 2021 8:47am
  - sooty
    
    Just think how many people, would have to stay at home if you could do it yourself?
    Probably cost the same, stay at home or work?
    
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    September 20, 2021 12:40pm
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Yes you are correct, but you are only talking about New Zealand and Australia, the boosters are gone voted 16-2 by the CDC, no coming back for Biden from that. If the boosters are anything like Australia, it is Israel on steroids, 126 million in 2022, you will feel like a pin cushion, 5 jabs in one year. You are 100% correct, there is no elimination, just an immense amount of experimental jabbing and see how you come out the other side, and told no compensation.
  Travelling overseas will be very low on the priority list, actually being able to get yourself to function and work after multiple boosters will be a sight to behold. A truck driver was hauled away in an ambulance at my sons work this week, fit 39 year old, jabbed that morning, massive heart problems.
  The unjabbed are doing all the heavy lifting at the moment, the jabbed are rapidly becoming unfit for purpose. Trying to push him to do 8 days straight, 2700 truck driving jobs Brisbane and Gold Coast.
  Wait until they ask him for blood platelets, you will be able to name your price.
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:17am
  - kevn
    
    @Greg…. Sons place of work in NZ?
    
    3 1
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    September 20, 2021 9:49am
- oldfella
  
  BY, the CDC has come out with some interesting results re vaccines. .
  The effectiveness of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine declined significantly after 120 days, the CDC’s report said, although it still provided strong protection against severe disease.
  The Moderna vaccine also produced higher post-vaccination antibody levels than the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, the study found.
  https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/17/cdc-study-finds-moderna-vaccine-is-best-at-preventing-covid-19-hospitalization-512565
  Did we back the wrong horse in this race? (I’ve already had b0th Pfizer jabs.)
  
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  September 20, 2021 11:15am
  - Hard Cheese
    
    Winston Peters was the one who backed the wrong horse
    
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    September 20, 2021 11:47am
hookerphil

More fool Auckland if there is any goodwill there.
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September 20, 2021 8:05am
Maggy Wassilieff

Damian Grant’s hard-hitting piece on Oranga Tamariki’s mishandling of the “Moana” case didn’t stay up long on “stuff’s” front-page website.

The judge thundered criticism on various staff members, the Chief Executive and the entire systemic regime of the Ministry. This is an incredible judgement that, by its nature, cannot be widely disseminated.

It should be. Redactions can be made and it must be re-issued. The country should bear witness to the malign state that the government agency empowered to care for the most vulnerable in our community has degenerated.

Ministry staff lied – relentlessly – to the caregivers, to themselves, and to the court.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/300409006/what-happened-to-moana-was-abuse-at-the-hands-of-oranga-tamariki
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September 20, 2021 8:08am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Wait for the law change to require all Maori children to be fostered to Maori parents. Or a carved out agency that will be solely responsible for placing Maori children.
  
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  September 20, 2021 8:17am
  - G152
    
    Once were warriors come to fruition
    
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    September 20, 2021 8:20am
    - crikey
      
      Once Were Warriors had already come to fruition when Alan Duff wrote his book, and that is a very long time ago.
      
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      September 20, 2021 9:55am
      - sooty
        
        That was true life!
        
        6 0
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        September 20, 2021 12:43pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Quite. And for the definition of child abuse to take on ethnically derived variability.
    
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    September 20, 2021 8:24am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    That’s going to gene typing for all children and adoptive parents. They will have to be matched by percentages. NO longer can we have have someone calling themselves Maori because they “identify” that way.
    Tough, Maoris aren’t what they used to be–a lot of outcrossing has occurred. That is making a farce out of assigning government to them.
    
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    September 20, 2021 8:26am
    - Nickc2
      
      Making farces? In case you haven’t noticed, our Govt makes an art form out of making them:
      
      Covid lockdowns and MIQ rorts,
      The economy,
      He Puapua and
      3 Waters.
      
      to highlight four of their more notorious ones.
      
      20 1
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      September 20, 2021 9:27am
      - sooty
        
        He Puapua. Count up the colurs of all the faces!
        
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        September 20, 2021 12:45pm
  - artemisia
    
    Will those parents also be required give due consideration to the other ancestors’ culture/s?
    
    Rhetorical question.
    
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    September 20, 2021 8:27am
  - I remember when
    
    Why is no-one asking the necessary questions.
    What is the expected outcome and how is it going to be achieved.
    What are the improvement targets and what will happen if they are not attained.
    Will it be possible to have a robust debate about the results without being ‘racist.’
    
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    September 20, 2021 8:58am
    - Nickc2
      
      Meaningful debates are verboten didn’t you know?
      All decisions made by the Govt’s Maori Caucus are final and binding, and any further correspondence will not be entered into. Get used to it Bro, the Great Maori Reset button has been pushed.
      
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      September 20, 2021 9:37am
  - Opie
    
    Good. If they want to run stuff themselves let’s just leave them too i, as long as I dont have to pay for it.
    
    Prepare to defend yourself at all times.
    
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    September 20, 2021 9:11am
    - Flossie
      
      Of course you’re going to pay.
      
      15 0
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      September 20, 2021 10:10am
      - Ed Snack
        
        And pay, and pay, and pay….
        
        A new “full and final” settlement every 20-25 years at a guess.
        
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        September 20, 2021 11:33am
- alex Masterley
  
  Complaints have been made to the judicial conduct officer about the actions of the chief District Court Judge and the chief Family Court Judge.
  While that is nice I dont expect to see an outcome in my lifetime.
  All I hope is the appeal, which will be to the High Court rather than the Court of Appeal, will be dealt with expeditously and a measured decision given.
  
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  September 20, 2021 8:33am
  - Cinematic
    
    Has an appeal been made? I’d be surprised.
    
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    September 20, 2021 8:39am
    - alex Masterley
      
      Yes, the lawyer for the mother of the child has filed an appeal.
      Her client will be on legal aid, the foster parents should be on legal aid (if they are not alreaduy they should be) and the crown agencies will be paying their own lawyers.
      So we end up paying for this charade.
      
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      September 20, 2021 9:34am
      - sooty
        
        If the foster parents have to pay for their own own legal costs is completely wrong. If everybody else is paid by the taxpayer!
        
        5 1
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        September 20, 2021 12:49pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Why doesn’t the mother take the kid back?
        
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        September 20, 2021 1:18pm
- Prince
  
  Note the disclaimer at the end of the article…
  “Damien Grant is a business owner based in Auckland. He writes from a libertarian perspective and is a member of the Taxpayers’ Union but not of any political party.”
  
  Where are the disclaimers after the numerous opinion pieces from, eg, Jane Bowron, Alison Mau, Glenn McConnell, Khylee Quince, Virginia Fallon, Dave Armstrong, Luke Malpass, Donna Miles, Stuff’s team of leftist cartoonists etc etc.
  
  How about an open declaration of their political preferences and background.
  
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  September 20, 2021 8:36am
  - alex Masterley
    
    Prince – all those names are foundation members of the Jacinda Fangirl society.
    
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    September 20, 2021 9:35am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Did you miss the extensive reporting of this case when the judgment was issued ten days ago?
  
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  September 20, 2021 5:49pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

More and more I think Jaxxie is treating the country like the frustrated mother of a toddler who, despite her best advice, just won’t do what the mother says to do.
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September 20, 2021 8:09am
- KevO'Brien
  
  She’s learning as she goes.
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:29am
  - backster
    
    Kev…But she doesn’t just sticks to the same ingrained Socialist Control dogma.
    
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    September 20, 2021 11:32am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  (Your deity) help us if she’s still mother when the country grows to the rebellious teenage years. Guess the Anti-Smacking law could be repealed.
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:46am
Jibber NO Jabber

The Sun rises on another day in Arderns Narktopia.
Not all bad news tho’,
Cactus is back on deck ?
https://asianinvasion2019.blogspot.com/2021/09/new-zealand-lawyers-need-to-pick-side.html

Level 4 in Auckland is a nonsense. It continues to be a nonsense. Level 3 is a nonsense.

Everyone knows that. That is why Siouxsie Wiles decided to sit with her mate on a beach.

The Bill of Rights in New Zealand was drafted romantically I am sure for left wing activists to apply against right wing abuses of power suppressing the downtrodden.

The world has moved on from being terrified of Covid.

New Zealand has to.
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September 20, 2021 8:12am
- kevn
  
  @Jib No… That’s great She always adds plenty.
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:24am
Cinematic

Heh, if the Delta is as vicious as Hendy et al tell us it should be an easy decision to extend L4 in Auckland and add the Waikato back in.

If they don’t the message is clear. Delta isn’t worth locking down for. In which case we’ve spent billions and negatively impacted millions of lives for no good reason.

The more you look at it the more this latest lockdown decision looks like pure hubris.
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September 20, 2021 8:16am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Define Waikato. Once you get over the Bombay Hills, the country widens considerably, and there’s no way you could lock a single province down, other than Auckland. The next logical boundary is Cook Strait.
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:23am
  - alex Masterley
    
    Tony, The genie is out of the bottle.
    Whatever decision the government makes will be criticised.
    If it were not so serious it will be fun to watch.
    My pick is Auckland drops to three and waikato goes up, although how that is policed is beyond me.
    
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    September 20, 2021 9:37am
    - MCos
      
      My pick would be expand Auckland.
      It’s not big enough anyway!
      
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      September 20, 2021 10:02am
  - ecco
    
    That’s funny Tony?
    
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    September 20, 2021 11:57am
  - Alwynn
    
    You could lock of Wellington without much bother.
    On the west coast you could run a line across just north of Manukau from the sea to the Tararua range. The only road going through it, as far as I can determine, is SH1. Then on the eastern side you put the boundary somewhere on SH2 where it crosses the Remutaka range. It is, again, the only road going through the boundary.
    Two barriers and we would be free of the pestilence coming down from the North
    
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    September 20, 2021 3:13pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I take it you are proposing this as a permanent solution. If so, could I suggest an expansion of one extra road block? One on Te Whiti Road at Gladstone and one on SH 2 at the Waingawa Bridge. I still need to be able to get to Featherston (Booktown), the Martinborough and Taratahi vineyards, and the Gladstone pub. The passenger rail service would have to terminate at Carterton, of course.
      I assume you would simply prohibit air and sea passenger services to and from the wastelands to the north.
      
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      September 20, 2021 5:58pm
- Nickc2
  
  IMO. lockdowns are nothing more than an indoctrination medium into Socialism whereby we are limited to:
  
  News events as determined by a compliant MSM,
  Liberty and exercise as dictated by Govt and
  Acquisition of foodstuffs, toiletries and beverages from Govt approved and sanctioned suppliers.
  
  All with threats of imprisonment for non-compliamce.
  
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  September 20, 2021 10:01am
ABS4EVA

Cindies friend Dan in Aus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdN31StQX_c

is the Highest Paid State Politician in Australia
she helps him stay in by paying a Visit
as the Labour Poster girl

The MONEY he pours into Self Promotion is amazing

These figures are probably under estimated

His latest presentation you have to admit
WAS GREAT ACTING
>
Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews is pouring taxpayer dollars into his social media presence all for self-promotion and the “cult of Dan,” says Victorian Liberal MP Richard Riordan.

The Victorian premier has spent $770,000 of taxpayer funds in five years on his Facebook presence and advertisements on the platform on the way to becoming the most popular politician on the social media giant.

The spending campaign has ammased the premier one million followers on the platform – more than any other political figure in the country.

Mr Riordan slammed the premier for “pouring that money into himself” for self-promotion.

“That money is being poured into algorithms,” he told Sky News.

“It’s all for his own personal gain”.

Mr Riordan, the Shadow Assistant Minister for Scrutiny of Government in Victoria, said the premier attempted to pass off the expense in parliament as him “putting out special messages during COVID”.

“It’s three-quarters of a million dollars … pushing his brand,” he said.

“No one else has the largesse this man has. It’s all for self-promotion.”
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September 20, 2021 8:16am
- Roberta
  
  Would be interesting to see the taxpayer dollar value Jacinda spends on her brand, bet it is a lot more than that!
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:28am
  - Nickc2
    
    They’ve just printed off another $41Bn.
    
    14 1
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    September 20, 2021 10:10am
    - Paulus
      
      I heard this morning that the borrowed debt is now $140 billion.
      And it has to be paid back by us and our children and grandchildren.
      Start GST at 20% shortly
      Good luck to them.
      
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      September 20, 2021 11:14am
      - Nickc2
        
        They are systematically trashing the joint before they are out on their arses. They don’t care so long as the seeds of Socialist have been sown.
        
        10 1
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        September 20, 2021 12:10pm
      - sooty
        
        Every dollar given to the media is used to prop up the cindy brand! Early electioneering!
        
        8 0
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        September 20, 2021 12:59pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Sooty @ 12:59PM
        Sorry Sooty, I reported you by mistake.
        
        How about this Govt start recouping monies by defunding Maori Separatism, drugs for the Mongrel Mob and MSM fairy-tails glorifying Dear Leader.
        
        5 1
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        September 20, 2021 1:12pm
- ABS4EVA
  
  This Geezer is a Coached and groomed
  CLASS ACT
  COVID has allowed him to polish his skills
  
  The COVID BS Circus is phenomenal
  
  Great Entertainment
  
  A Secular Catholic who approves of Late Term Abortion and implemented Euthanasia without
  a National Discussion.
  
  Highly principled just like Jacinda.
  
  As Election time NOV 22 comes closer
  he has toned down the Big Brother Nagging
  speak and the Sheep will fall for it
  
  Him and his police force are scary
  they have scared people so much they
  are no longer complying
  
  OUT OF FEAR
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:54am
all true

Kiwi’s have to understand the death rate is now manifold higher then the death rate of Covid, because of increased suicides, missed life threatening surgeries caused by these lockdowns.
Nevermind about the financial disaster they have created.
Kiwi’s just wake up in a hurry.
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September 20, 2021 8:16am
- kevn
  
  @true…. Exactly.
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:11am
kiwikidsnz

America’s Cup skulduggery?
https://rule69.blog/2021/09/19/darkness-rising/
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September 20, 2021 8:18am
- rangitoto
  
  Magnus at his usual stirring.
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:52am
Tauhei Notts

Yesterday we had a well crafted opinion piece on the MIQ situation. There was one sentence in that piece that bears repeating as it cogently sets out our predicament. It reads;
“There are clear political imperatives for a maternalistic Government to keep the population scared and controlled.”
There is an abundance of ineptitude about our current Cabinet, but when it comes to animal cunning they make shithouse rats look naive.
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September 20, 2021 8:18am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Ain’t that the truth. But today, those shithouse rats have to find a way of worming out of the elimination strategy, without being seen to be worming out of the elimination strategy. The spin machine is going to be running at full power!
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:25am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Can’t they just reposition their elimination to a potty chair?
    
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    September 20, 2021 9:38am
  - Observer of Life
    
    Tony: I might actually have to bend my own rules (put in place for sanities sake) and watch her 1pm at the PoT. Ugggh…
    
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    September 20, 2021 10:10am
    - Prince
      
      If you do (and I don’t recommend it), the speech from the throne is at 4pm.
      1pm is just the usual list of numbers bleated out, which is apparently the best we can do in terms of presentation methods (has the Govt never heard of powerpoint, graphics etc ?)
      Tune in at 4:40 for the decision, after 10 minutes delay, 30 minutes of posing and propaganda.
      
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      September 20, 2021 10:59am
      - Paulus
        
        Yesterday she was on for almost an hour I understand.
        
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        September 20, 2021 11:15am
      - ecco
        
        Have they not heard of the internet. Could just put the results out at 9am on a website instead of irritating the hell out of most NZers.
        
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        September 20, 2021 12:07pm
Chuck Bird

A bit light entertainment.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=195849355972134&notif_id=1632021449865338&notif_t=watch_follower_video&ref=notif
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September 20, 2021 8:19am
- krazykiwi
  
  Funny, and with a strong message on the history of societal segregation.
  
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  September 20, 2021 8:51am
I remember when

Once again the problem with lockdown and the elimination approach is highlighted.
Waikato case means the area by this system must now be declared Level 4.
Large household so there will be more cases in the next week.
They have spent the whole of this outbreak explaining how difficult to control Delta can be.
About the only change has been is that some businesses have opened during Level 4 which didn’t last time. Often by the business themselves suggesting ‘imaginary’ reasons for qualifying.
The unions complained but the government turned a ‘blind eye.’
Another four days and reconsider on Friday?
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September 20, 2021 8:26am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Not only a large household, but a sick child, now Covid positive, went to school on Thursday. The school has more than 100 pupils, so it’s not a one-room country job.
  
  How many kids took Delta home at the weekend to households in a L2 environment, and what did all the school families get up to at the weekend?
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:27am
  - MCos
    
    The one saving grace is Mangatangi School only has 109 kids, not two thousand with buses coming from miles around.
    
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    September 20, 2021 10:18am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      109 is bad enough, if the virus gets established in a few households, especially if household members got out and about at the weekend. The only positive is that no one positive with the virus (except the prisoner now at Mt Eden!) is likely to have crossed the border INTO Auckland, bringing Delta with them.
      
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      September 20, 2021 12:49pm
- ecco
  
  Be interesting to know if that Waikato household were vaccinated.
  
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  September 20, 2021 12:09pm
RockyJ

In my opinion the gravest move by our government will be the imposition of the new Aotearoa New Zealand history curriculum. It will be destructive because everything I have read to date from the Ministry of Education in the proposed content looks like critical race theory. It will be pushed at our vulnerable young people as a part of their psychological pre conditioning for the full implementation of He Puapua by 2040.
I did the survey and found the questions carefully worded to ensure direct criticism of the proposed curriculum content was impossible.
The demographics captured data along a number of lines including the respondent’s race.
A summary of the results has been published.
https://www.education.govt.nz/our-work/changes-in-education/aotearoa-new-zealand-histories-in-our-national-curriculum/
What was really interesting was that the public report published from the results provided summary feedback from “learners, teachers, Maori, Pacifica and Asians”.
What was missing? Feedback from European New Zealanders. If you are a European New Zealander and a government survey asks your race be assured your opinions will not count. Better still, enter your race demographic as Maori.
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September 20, 2021 8:27am
- Ruahine
  
  Now whenever I am confronted with a form especially any quasi gov’t form I have started to put Maori for ethnicity. Especially if they are health forms or those nosey parker type forms that seem to be everywhere these days.
  I never used to but seeing as I can genuinely claim a Waikato maternal ancestor why not.
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:34am
  - RockyJ
    
    I did the same even though I am proudly 100% corn fed. In fact the Ministry of Education survey was so sloppy it allowed me back on about 20 times to repeat it and muck with their data.
    
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    September 20, 2021 11:13am
    - doggone7
      
      Maybe others will follow your lead and little groups will get together and make thousands of submissions. And when the Ministry acts on them we can say they did a piss poor job.
      
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      September 20, 2021 2:17pm
- Jack5
  
  Spot on, RockyJ.
  
  This brainwash of our kids and grandkids stems ultimately from Critical Race Theory, which has led to BLM riots and the removal of historical monuments around the West.
  
  It’s being pushed by our school teachers.
  
  Let’s tell the kids they’re being brainwashed and let’s challenge teachers wherever possible, starting with PTA meetings.
  
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  September 20, 2021 11:18am
I remember when

After the comments yesterday about Murdoch cartoons I reviewed Garrick Tremain’s site.
Topical, often cutting edge, sometimes hilarious and well drawn.
When was the first time anyone said any of that about Murdoch’s attempts.
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September 20, 2021 8:31am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I concur about both Tremain and Murdoch, but the worst of the lot is Guy Body, who does Sundays and Mondays for the Herald. His cartoons have an element of nastiness to them.
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:41am
  - Jack5
    
    Murdoch’s views are those of the radical, far-Left fringe.
    
    They fit the Leftist editorial stance of our struggling newspapers, and of their Ardernist subsidisers.
    
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    September 20, 2021 11:21am
    - ecco
      
      Ferald got $2m from the media fund, so can’t be struggling that much any more.
      
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      September 20, 2021 12:11pm
      - Warren
        
        People seem to forget how much all media sites are getting for advertisements on Covid -19 so on top of the Government bribe to the media they are also making a killing out of covid advertising. Is it any wonder now why they seem to be in profit compared to being just about broke a couple of years ago.
        
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        September 20, 2021 1:06pm
I remember when

The government has suggested, or maybe hinted, we need 90% vaccination for immunity.
Figures from the UK and Israel would indicate that if you have had both jabs you might be.
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September 20, 2021 8:34am
- I remember when
  
  vaccinated not vaccination
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:04am
Yvette

Does anyone give a bugger
about anything other
than covid?

‘Show us your trees’: How choosing Novus means you’re supporting New Zealand’s environment
6/09/2021  ”News item” sponsored by Novus
As well as thinking “show us your crack”, people should now also think “show us your trees” when they think of the brand Novus.
The windscreen repair company has recently announced a partnership with Trees That Count, a charity that supports community planting groups and landowners around New Zealand with funded native trees, which means reducing CO2 emissions and strengthening the country’s biodiversity.

But what of the Government One Billion Trees programme?
https://www.mpi.govt.nz/forestry/funding-tree-planting-research/one-billion-trees-programme/progress-towards-planting-one-billion-trees/tracking-planting-for-the-one-billion-trees-programme/
This link shows a graphic – Progress Chart, but is “As at 18 January 2021” which is odd because I have an updated chart from the same MPI website “As at 9 April 2021” and that says –
The One Billion Trees Fund has directly funded 46,534,000 trees for planting, between 2018 and 2028. 70% are native species, 31% are exotic species.

But an earlier graphic, As at 30 June 2020 states Government has directly funded 101,690,000 (trees) 12% natives species, 88% exotic.
So there seems to be a little conflict among official information.

And both conflict with Ardern’s statement “We aim to plant one billion trees by 2028 – 150 million are already in the ground.” – Opening address to United Nations Climate Action Summit – September 2019 https://www.beehive.govt.nz/speech/opening-address-united-nations-climate-action-summit – while the MRI Progress Chart, as at 30 June 2020 said the Government had directly funded 101,690,000 trees. An estimated total number 149,399,000 – was closer to Ardern’s claim – but included commercial replantings, being 95% (Cabinet Paper figure) of mature trees they whack down elsewhere in their forests.

But now –
The Climate Change Commission’s draft path to carbon zero requires at least 16,000 hectares of new native forests to be planted a year by 2025, and 25,000 hectares a year by 2030. On top, over the next nine years, the path requires another 25,000 hectares a year of new exotic forest, such as pine.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/124826669/73-million-trees-not-nearly-enough-says-company-using-pine-to-nurture-native-forest April 22 2021

Question: Is the Government One Billion Trees programme now to be abandoned in favour of the Climate Change Commission’s guideline?

What can this Labourless Government now actually come up with, if asked like Novus “Show us your trees”?
Or is it, in Government’s case, still “show us your crack”?
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September 20, 2021 8:38am
- Ed Snack
  
  And trees aren’t necessarily the right answer, given that pasture actually absorbs more CO2 than forests over the medium to long term.
  
  Just more virtue signalling disguised as advertising and bullshit.
  
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  September 20, 2021 11:45am
  - JJ56
    
    And then there is short rotation copiced trees for biofuels …
    
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    September 20, 2021 6:10pm
TripeWryter

About Damien Grant’s column concerning ‘Moana’ …
About stuff’s coverage of ‘Moana’, I am generally surprised at how the propaganda outlet has covered this given its commitment to ‘Te Ao Maori’, ‘kaupapa’, and how ‘Te Tiriti o Waitangi’ is at the heart of what purports to be its news coverage.
It has covered the case fully, in detail.
It has shown Oranga Tamariki in a poor light, and its former, knighted, interim chief executive, and done well to report on the attempted interference in the handling of the case by Judge Callinicos.
Stuff, I think, has been unique in covering this case.
The New Zealand Herald – you know, the media outlet whose eight senior executives defensively proclaimed their independence in a special panel attached to a column by Bruce Cotterill – doesn’t appear to have reported it in any depth.
TVNZ? Well, TVNZ is beyond a joke anyway …
Heather du Plessis-Allan interviewed a kaumatua who didn’t appear to show any care or concern for the child beyond that she wasn’t being brought up in a Maori family.
Damien Grant did suggest that Judge Callinicos be awarded a New Zealand Order of Merit for his defence of ‘Moana’ and her pakeha foster parents.
I would suggest a knighthood.
I doubt he would be nominated, though. He probably has made too many highly-placed enemies.
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September 20, 2021 8:43am
- TripeWryter
  
  I meant to add but got distracted …
  That Great Maori Warrior and Defender of (Maori) Children Kelvin Davis – the minister responsible for Oranga Tamariki – has been remarkably silent about ‘Moana’ and her future and this court case.
  I wondered why. Perhaps because the former CEO was a Maori knight, retired lieutenant-colonel, and well-connected bloke and not a blonde, blue-eyed Irish girl who could be kicked about and bullied.
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:23am
Benedict Yu

Just went off to get a coffee. On radio there was interview with a guy on the radio. A manager of MIQ. Today there is a new system where you enter a ballot for a spot.

The guy said “the previous system was unfair because some people were using ‘bots’ to flood the system with booking requests”.

Yet in July Jacinda Ardern said there was no evidence that anyone was using bots to game the booking system.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/07/covid-19-jacinda-ardern-sees-no-evidence-of-bots-making-miq-bookings-but-do-experts-agree.html

So the guy that manages the system knew. Did he brief the PM?

???????
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September 20, 2021 8:44am
- SmokerGuy
  
  He shouldn’t have to brief the PM. It’s been know for a while yet our PM as per normal drags her feet, pretends it’s not happening etc. She thinks kiwis are too dumb to work out what is happening.
  
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  September 20, 2021 8:50am
  - Alwynn
    
    “She thinks kiwis are too dumb”.
    Unfortunately I would have to say, after looking at the poll numbers for preferred PM, she is quite right.
    
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    September 20, 2021 3:21pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Jacinda says wherever she wants. Truth is irrelevant. Lying is ok if it is for the greater good.
  
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  September 20, 2021 8:54am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Ooooh, Naughty Benedict. You aren’t meant to remember the spin from days past.
  
  Our Government has known since March (at least) it installed a dodgy booking system.
  
  https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/emails-reveal-mbie-scrambling-stop-programmers-beating-miq-booking-system
  
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  September 20, 2021 8:54am
  - Hollyfield
    
    The vaccine booking system is also a bit dodgy, but for different reasons.
    
    Several weeks ago I booked two vaccinations, the earliest available were 2 months away.
    
    Last week Jacinda said everyone in Auckland should rebook for last week. I tried repeatedly – but when choosing change appointment, and change location to get somewhere closer to me, the booking system gave me two options – one about 5 suburbs away from where I live, and the other about 10 suburbs away. Yet when I selected make new booking, instead of changing existing booking, it gave me options of 2 places 500m from my house, and another 4 in the next suburb. Why don’t they come up when changing an existing booking? So I cancelled and did a completely new booking.
    
    Then when talking to the vaccinator, as I was the only one there, she said they weren’t busy at all – I said that’s probably because they don’t come up as an option when changing a booking.
    
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    September 20, 2021 9:12am
    - Nickc2
      
      Why book a date/time/place for vaccination (assuming you are in Auckland)? You can take your life into your own hands a drive to South Auckland and get vaccinated where bookings etc are not required.
      
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      September 20, 2021 2:10pm
- tui47
  
  Of course she knew. She also knew that it was another government weakness in the MIQ system and Jacinda does not like addressing failure. She probably had not been briefed with a specific letter advising her so resorted to her usual response when dealing with a negative issues which is to lie.
  
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  September 20, 2021 8:55am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Cindy will just blame MBIE – but Cindy’s kind, so there will be no consequences…
  
  (Or maybe – as she didn’t know about the They are us movie being made and a biography being written about her – it’s simply that her people wanted to surprise her)
  
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  September 20, 2021 8:55am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    She didn’t know about the antics in the Youth camp or the abuser on her staff….and someone else always ends up carrying the can for her.
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115710495/labour-party-president-nigel-haworth-resigns
    
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    September 20, 2021 9:34am
    - sooty
      
      Yet she had been to the same camp herself.
      Maybe it was different in her day!
      
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      September 20, 2021 1:17pm
- Master Mariner
  
  Blatently Lying BY. Everyone knew Twitter and other bots were actively used.
  No Improvement on MIQ Booking system and if anything its less transparent unfortunately.
  
  Heres a message from another NZ Master yesterday.
  “My first day of quarantine today……how are you getting on…….I see some slots in MIQ are up to grabs today so will you be grabbing one……the system does not work. I flew from Las Palmas to Madrid to Amsterdam to Seoul and all planes were full. Seoul to NZ 50 people on the plane…..the world is open and living with COVID-19……this Government f**king things!”
  
  I have’nt replied yet as I have formally resigned due to the impossibilty of getting into MIQ and uncertaintity with “Wishy Washy” Plans.
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:09am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Yes, Jacinda is either a liar (and a remarkably incompetent one at that) or unforgivably ill-informed.
  
  Still don’t really see, though, how it was “unfair” to use bots. It is the case in practically every aspect of human endeavour, and always has been, that clever people who are prepared to spend a bit of time, energy, resource to get what they want – are more likely to succeed in getting it, than are people who aren’t. That driver of human effort has resulted in many useful inventions and improvements in wellbeing.
  
  Where exactly is the unfairness supposed to be in this case?
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:42am
- ecco
  
  Imagine if the cyber attackers have a go at the MIQ ‘lobby room’ system with their DDOS attack.
  
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  September 20, 2021 12:12pm
I remember when

Lynsey Marr, Virginia Tech Environmental Engineering professor, an expert in the airborne transmission of infectious disease.
New York Times: 6/7/20: The scientist, the Air and the Virus:
Irish Times: 7/7/20: 239 Experts with one big cliam: Coronavirus is airborne:
Wired.com: 13/5/21 The 60-year-old Scientific Screwup That Helped Covid Kill:
Also read a statement that pre-Covid Lynsey’s testing showed that some people produce up to 1000x more fine aerosol particles. (Super spreaders?)
These articles show why we must never allow debate to be restricted and censored.
And need people other than the ‘experts’ involved in decision making.
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September 20, 2021 8:48am
kevn

@Bened… Lies from the Pulpit of (not) Truth? Surely not.
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September 20, 2021 8:49am
Frank the tank

Economically this lockdown is going to be A LOT worse than the last one due to:

1). There is no time for businesses to make up for lost income prior to the Christmas break.
2). Continued supply chain disruption.
3). We won’t move to complete freedom like past. Auckland will likely be in some form of restrictions for the majority (likely the whole time) of the summer.

Heard of the winter is discontent – here is its summer sister. You have been warned.
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September 20, 2021 8:50am
- KevO'Brien
  
  At this time of the year many retailers have to place orders for Christmas supplies. For many that season is critical to survival, it can provide the surplus which sustains the year.
  
  Ruining the Christmas trading will cause more havoc to the
  nation than covid. Business creates the prosperity out which our grandchildren can escape Robbo’s borrowing debts.
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:53am
  - Frank the tank
    
    If you can get stock – don’t count for there being much on the shelves by mid November. Europe has joined Asia and North America in regards to shipping shortages.
    
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    September 20, 2021 11:35am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Indeed.
      These economy commandeers who think everything runs to their diktats have no idea of how little they actually control. Decisions are time critical. A children’s wear manufacturer may be ordering fabric in March for October sales.
      
      Missed timing requires ready access to capital to fill in the holes for losses caused by timing errors or lost business. That’s why there are sales in January t0 pay for stock acquired in October. February brings the bankruptcies of those who missed out on the season.
      
      I see the govt and Covid destroying many more businesses over the next year.
      
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      September 20, 2021 3:30pm
Yvette

Samsudeen Inquiry
The Auckland terrorist’s immigration history is a glaring omission in the review of events leading to the 3 September attacks, according to the National Party.

… The government on Thursday announced a review covering three of his 10 years in New Zealand – the second period he spent in custody and since he was released.

It will look at the actions of police, Corrections and the SIS in their dealings with Samsudeen and its primary focus is the period leading up to his release in July and the seven weeks before the attack.

The scope of the inquiry specifically excludes immigration, decisions taken before his latest period in custody and the legislation which agencies operate under.

… Labour MP and former refugee Ibrahim Omer spoke in parliament during the terrorist attack debate, stressing he did not want Samsudeen to adversely affect other asylum seekers who come to New Zealand.

However Labour MP Ibrahim Omer says –
… “The last few months we’ve been working around asylum seekers because we identified a huge hole and the gap in the system and in the way that asylum seekers are being supported.

The early experiences of “convention refugees” – those who successfully seek asylum after they arrive here – are starkly different from the 1500 annual quota refugees, he said, who receive orientation, English language classes and housing.
“Practically on the ground, quota refugees get the six-week resettlement training programme at Māngere refugee centre, they get support from the Red Cross for one year, although with Covid that’s been extended to two years.
“And convention refugees unfortunately, they get a letter saying ‘congratulations you’ve been accepted’, and just in the last couple of years they’ve started to get one phone call from a desk-bound immigration worker just checking in are they ok, ‘how’s things going?’ “
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/451778/lynnmall-attack-national-charities-critical-of-gaps-in-terrorist-inquiry

So, will an inquiry that is not a full inquiry lead to yet another Ardern Government non-delivery?
Or may they just as well sweep it under the fucking bumpy carpet on the 9th floor?

(OK – I haven’t had my morning coffee yet, to wash down the 12 pills)
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September 20, 2021 8:53am
Frank the tank

Can someone explain who someone in jail in Auckland is released beyond its boundaries and then to be dragged back to jail in Auckland at which stage it has been discovered he has WuFlu?

There is so more that is being omitted than is explained in the story.

Only in New Zimbabwe.
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September 20, 2021 8:53am
- artemisia
  
  Journalists will be asking that question this afternoon. For sure.//
  
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  September 20, 2021 12:04pm
  - sooty
    
    HHHHHHHAAAAAAAAA!
    
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    September 20, 2021 1:20pm
Loddenthinks

“Australia raves about New Zealand’s battle against Delta variant” is the latest cultural cringe/desperate attempt to paint a doomed strategy as a success, and outright lie put forward by the lap-dogs.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/09/australia-raves-about-new-zealand-s-battle-against-delta-variant.html

Well, not ALL of Australia, it seems. A number of them still have their eyes open, and are capable of rational thought:

https://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/andrew-bolt/bolt-arderns-woke-politics-leading-new-zealand-towards-a-form-of-apartheid/video/827393fdb1c67863fe8931349939ff44
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September 20, 2021 8:57am
- RockyJ
  
  I think that article praising NZ is probably intended to shame aussies into compliance like us. Much the way Jacinda used the example of New South Wales to scare us
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:04am
- PhilBest
  
  I emphasized on KB right back in March and April 2020, that NZ has natural advantages that are perfectly reasonable and scientific explanations for why none of the northern hemispeere flu scares ever came to much down here. If any country should have tried the light touch with Covid right from the start, it was us.
  
  I have repeatedly quoted William Briggs and nowhere is this truer than NZ:
  
  There Is No Evidence Lockdowns Saved Lives.
  
  https://wmbriggs.com/post/30833/
  
  “…There IS a sort of trend of lower death rates in hotter countries, or in areas of larger countries with better weather, like the US. Population density also played a part. It easier to spread any bug in tightly packed quarters, than when people are spread far apart. South Dakota, which had no lockdown, did 7 times better than Chicago (or all Illinois), which did…”
  
  “…The only evidence for lockdowns is the desire that lockdowns worked. That, and the embarrassment (and worse) in admitting to error. What politician anywhere will cop to ruining their economy and the lives of millions of their citizens? Who can say “Ah, it was only a few trillion”? This will not happen. It just won’t. All politicians will go on repeating that their lockdowns “saved lives”…
  
  “…There is a distinct tendency, at least in the Western media, to ascribe merit and blame for every event to people. What egos we all have!
  
  In the US it went like this. The virus was caused or exacerbated by the political party I disfavor. If persons in the party I favored were listened to, this would not have been as big a crisis. The virus spread so rapidly because of the actions of the party I disfavor. The party I favor helped stem the tide and saved lives. The crisis would have ended sooner, and more lives would have been saved, if the people in the party I hate were ignored. Science saved us!
  
  Nature gets no credit. Not for the creation of the virus, not for its highly variable spread, not for its highly variable infection rate, and certainly not for its hugely variable deaths caused. All those things were believed to be the responsibility of people. Nature has no real power, we think. It can be controlled to any degree of precision desired, if only we can muster sufficient political will and suppress our enemies…”
  
  The whole thing is a “must read”
  
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/05/general_debate_16_may_2020.html#comment-2716049
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:06am
  - PhilBest
    
    It is the height of mathematical ignorance to swallow the absurd assertion that the first 2020 lockdown “stopped thousands of deaths” as per that prick Hendy’s entrail reading. If NZ’s infection and death curve really were overlaid on that of Bergamo, we’d have had a doubling death rate each week of lockdown, hitting 200 / 400 by week 4 and 5 of the lockdown. THEN the death rate would start to come down because the lockdown interrupted something real. Death takes a few weeks after infection.
    
    It was also obvious that we had several hundred “flu like illnesses” too many in January and February and our tens of thousands of monthly arrivals from China meant it was absurd to claim the WuFlu waited around obligingly to give St Jacinda the chance to “save us with swift action” once it started turning up here from Iran, Italy and California!!! Our “remoteness saved us” meanwhile, tell that to the Dorkland property market.
    
    And the gummint banned antibodies tests so none of the people who got those January and February illnesses could find out even if they paid their own way to do so. Why on earth has this not been a scandal that brought down the regime???
    
    We are obsessing with little errors that let the Delta virus which is more infectious, infect a few more people here and there. Meanwhile we have had clusters at least as significant as the March 2020 ones were and it looks like the IFR which turned out to be around 1.5% – skewed by a dementia wing outbreak where a common cold might have killed them all anyway – is going to be even lower this time around.
    
    Furthermore, Waikato Uni a few months ago when the antibodies test ban ran out, tested donated blood and found Covid antibodies in twice as much of it as they should. That means that we had at least twice as many cases of Covid in NZ than we even knew of. But on top of that, around 2/3 of Covid infections do not involve the development of antibodies; the immune system defeats the infection with T cells and other earlier layers of response. Doing the maths, then, our IFR was probably around 0.2% – still skewed by the dementia unit. Take that out, and it is like 0.01%.
    
    It looks like it is a fat lie that Delta is more deadly; it is virology 101 for evolved viruses to be more contagious and LESS deadly. So among the general population, I believe we are looking at something LESS likely to kill anyone, than at least 20 common causes of death including the normal flus and pneumonias. The crucial thing is “protect the rest homes” and what are we doing there? We have known for well over a year that the risk is all about aerosol buildup in the air and all the fanatical deep cleaning is a waste of time, this thing rampages through rest homes regardless if their ventilation and HVAC are wrongly optimized (eg “energy efficiency”). So where is the Appollo Project for derisking NZ rest homes?
    
    Not to mention, where is the public advice about opening windows and doing as much stuff as possible outside? Including rest home residents, wheel them around the rose garden on fine days, have activities outside, allow unlimited visiting outside.
    
    I have learned more since April 2020 about NZ’s incredible good fortune with “environment”. The mere fact that our temperatures are so modest means people do let more air into indoors. We love doing things al fresco even off season. One of our most popular building types is inherently leaky of air and a surprisingly high rate of exchange occurs even with doors and windows shut. Constant winds and breezes is a plus. Our high UV kills viruses outdoors in 4 minutes rather than 20 as is the case in some parts of the world; our high UV also creates high ozone levels, which ozone drifts indoors and kills viruses there. We have stuff-all air pollution to deplete the ozone before it can help human environments. Our humidity range is lucky optimum because below 40% those aerosolized viruses float indefinitely and throat and nasal passages dry out and are more prone to infection.
    
    It is clear that Bergamo for example is a classic opposite case; weather inversions and calm conditions trap smog for weeks in winter. UV is low and ozone is depleted. Even if ventilation is used, it is far less effective than here.
    
    I ask again and again, if this stuff is not some of what epidemiologists learn in lesson 101 when they get their letters, WTF do they spend years at Uni learning? “How to rig computer models in 5 easy lessons”?
    
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    September 20, 2021 9:37am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      There could also be personality issues with some epidemiologists. Virus tracing is like hunting and there are thrills there. Some are natural bullies and they enjoy the warders role of making orders for others to obey.
      
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      September 20, 2021 10:09am
    - kevn
      
      @PhilBest… Thanks for your thoughts.
      Politics seems to be the base.
      
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      September 20, 2021 10:28am
    - Batman
      
      Phil, it is the height of mathematical ignorance to claim that lockdowns don’t work, based on overseas examples with totally different rules, in which large parts of the populace, including the leader, actively worked against it.
      
      You’re making a comparison out of dog shit and chocolate fudge, and claiming they’re the same.
      
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      September 20, 2021 10:47am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Once again Batman ignores the data and opines foolishly based on his feelz. But the narrative is about all that matters.
        
        Analyses of overseas data by such as the US CDC and others have concluded that lockdowns have at best a very limited impact on the spread of Covid.
        
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        September 20, 2021 12:26pm
      - doggone7
        
        No-one has been able to give me a cogent answer as to why if lockdowns don’t work, so many countries have had them in some form.
        
        So many countries were suggested as ones we should have copied. Australia was a favourite We should’ve copied them but we shouldn’t have had lockdowns? Singapore? Taiwan? Sweden?
        
        And who, when, knew which to follow?
        
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        September 20, 2021 4:27pm
  - doggone7
    
    Taking all that into account, if Judith Collins had been Prime Minister what clear differences would there have been in NZ’s approach to what has been done?
    
    There’d have been the same MOH people and the same pool of epidemiologists, modellers, etc.
    
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    September 20, 2021 4:14pm
- Frank the tank
  
  LOL – the “author” of this article was a digital sports reporter. Takes subject matter expert in New Zimbabwe to a whole new level.
  
  The article was taken from News.Com.AU. They are on par with the guardian and New Zimbabwe’s MSM.
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:11am
- ecco
  
  Read an interesting article on the Telegraph UK site titled ‘Woke left have destroyed California’. A lot of parallels to Ardern in NZ and the way she’s dismantling the NZ economy and pushing through her woke agenda. Article talks of how California was the once one of the most desirable places to live in the US and the world. Now punctuated by rising taxes, fiscal deficits, businesses fleeing California to Texas and other states (Elon Musk), increasing homelessness.
  
  NZ heading the same way with the same sort of leader as California governor Gavin Newsom, who is apparently Nancy Pelosi’s nephew.
  
  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/19/woke-left-have-destroyed-california/
  
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  September 20, 2021 12:21pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Haha.
    
    You should have a look at my “Californian Screaming” series of posts over at No Minister where I go into detail on there various problems with energy, environment, crime, homelessness and just general stupidity.
    
    If you’ve got money like Pelsoi and her nephew, plus the Silicon Tech folk then it’s all good, but otherwise…
    
    Basically turning into a feudal state.
    
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    September 20, 2021 7:18pm
jon

Great to note that the Hobson’s Pledge petition against changing the name of our NEW ZEALAND to Aotearoa has thus far attracted over 12000 signatures. Please sign if you havent and encourage others to do so as well. Of course MSM isnt giving any coverage to this petition.
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September 20, 2021 8:58am
- Loddenthinks
  
  And when they eventually do, it will be to label it a “racist dog-whistle” – you heard it here first!
  
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  September 20, 2021 11:00am
- ecco
  
  How could that sort of thing even be enacted without a referendum? John Key couldn’t even get the flag changed with a referendum, let alone the name of our country.
  
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  September 20, 2021 12:23pm
Frank the tank

Anyone else see the Toxic WuFlu interview with Bishop and Seymour.

Anyone who thinks Bishop is the answer to National’s woes needs to watch. He isn’t.

Seymour on the other hand was sensible, measured, had a plan and had logical, fact based answers to all of Toxic’s “gotcha” questions.
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September 20, 2021 9:00am
- BAM
  
  Why is National using Chris Bishop in this role instead of Shane Reti?
  
  It doesn’t make any sense at all.
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:42am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Because Bishop is National’s spokesman on Covid Response, pitting him against Hipkins. Reti is the Health spokesman, and whilst Covid is a health issue, there are issues well beyond health. Reti is doing an outstanding job in Health, because unlike Little, he knows the system inside out.
    
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    September 20, 2021 9:52am
    - kevn
      
      @Tony S… and Reti is so good on so many levels, we wouldn’t want him burn out.
      
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      September 20, 2021 10:30am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Reti has certainly landed a solid hit on the Government over the pilot for the Mongrel Mob’s methamphetamine programme:
        
        https://www.national.org.nz/no-proof-mobs-meth-programme-participants-ever-used-the-drug-in-the-first-place
        
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        September 20, 2021 12:53pm
- ByGolly
  
  Indeed. Chris Bishop comes across terribly.
  
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  September 20, 2021 2:00pm
Clownworld

No matter what level Auckland and other regions enter, just remember that levels are a govt arbitrary social construct. So if we are still in levels we are still under “emergency response” , a 19mth plus temporary situation. When does the govt need to extend the emergency again before it runs out?

On a brighter note by the time NZ finally enters Level 0 i.e. no levels , Jacinda should have retired?
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September 20, 2021 9:06am
- Cinematic
  
  The terror is real Clownworld. And I mean terror. A walk around the block or a skim of my local facebook group reveals this.
  
  To add to your brighter note the UK and other countries with rolling ‘deaths with covid’ have returned to normal very quickly. The occasional squawking of a Baker type goes ignored.
  
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  September 20, 2021 10:07am
Maggy Wassilieff

Good weather on the horizon, so a few of us old chooks have decided to go bush for a couple of days this week…..

but last time just as I was doing a bunk to Oz , the planes got cancelled….and day before one of the old chooks was off to Auckland, it went into Lockdown 4.

I’m thinking it might pay to have a Plan B for this week (same old, same old).
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September 20, 2021 9:07am
Morry45

Some great work at Hobsons Pleadge. Sign the petitions.
https://www.hobsonspledge.nz/campaigns_hobsons
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September 20, 2021 9:18am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Duly signed.
  
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  September 20, 2021 10:48am
sooty

Why do these covid experts of cindy, call themselves experts?
Never had covid before, so how can they be experts?
Do they know something we don’t?
When nothing they have said proves to be true.
Where’s the gigantic mound of dead bodies?
Reduce their wages to the same as a cleaner, till they come up with facts and prove it.
Till then they are just ken and karen flapping gums.
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September 20, 2021 9:22am
- Albert_Ross
  
  That’s all you’ve got? Even somebody of Jacinda’s painfully limited intelligence would find it pretty easy to dismiss these arguments. Here’s what she says:
  
  – You don’t have to have had covid yourself in order to be an expert on it, any more than you need to have broken your leg to know how to fix a broken leg, or to have had cancer to know how to administer chemotherapy.
  
  – There isn’t a gigantic mound of dead bodies because our lockdown approach was successful in limiting the number of cases to what our hospitals could cope with.
  
  And now you’ve had your chance, she doesn’t have a mark on her, you’re empty-handed and she’s moved on to another questioner. Great work
  
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  September 20, 2021 11:36am
  - Ed Snack
    
    I think you misread the question, it is rather “we haven’t had Covid before” as a disease, rather than a specific personal experience with Covid.
    
    But you have probably correctly identified the immediate spin response, misunderstand and give an answer to the question that wasn’t asked and pretend that you aced it. A compliant media would just lap that up !
    
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    September 20, 2021 12:30pm
Maggy Wassilieff

So how did our Dear PM know that Mongrel Mob Meth trial had been successful….

when there was no testing of the participants before they went into the trial…and weekly testing was not carried out independently?

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2109/S00163/no-proof-mobs-meth-programme-participants-ever-used-the-drug-in-the-first-place.htm

The whole episode is a farce.
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September 20, 2021 9:27am
- Yabster
  
  yes can’t wait for the MSM to question her on that- oh wait…
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:36am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Shane Reti has done a fantastic job in highlighting this. I’m sure he’d be asking some very exacting questions in the House tomorrow, if Parliament goes ahead. But I have a feeling the PM and Cabinet will find a way for Parliament NOT to go back tomorrow, so whatever decision they make today, and all the other issues around at the moment, do not get scrutinised.
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:46am
- Kiwi Dave
  
  So how did our Dear PM know that Mongrel Mob Meth trial had been successful…?
  
  Matauranga Maori, of course. Who needs measurable objectives for success? Decolonize your mind!
  
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  September 20, 2021 12:53pm
Rusty

Will we ever know what this terrorism threat against the Black caps was that caused the cancellation of their Pakistan tour?

The Pakistan Govt was adamant that the Black caps were safe and surely they would have acted on a terrorist threat if it was credible.

In this social media world we live in a 13 year old kid could post a terrorist threat and cause mayhem on the group its directed against.
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September 20, 2021 9:28am
- Batman
  
  I think most of us would trust Five Eyes over the Taliban-tolerant Pakistanis!
  
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  September 20, 2021 10:39am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Exactly. The reason the Taliban were able to come out of nowhere heavily trained and equipped to take over Afghanistan is most likely due to considerable help from Pakistan.
    
    I wouldn’t call Pakistan Taliban-tolerant. That seems to be under-selling it a bit much.
    
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    September 20, 2021 11:04am
    - Batman
      
      I agree I’m under-selling it. But Taliban-tolerant had a catchy ring to it so I went with it haha
      
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      September 20, 2021 11:21am
NoFax

If the PM is consistent with her approach, Auckland should stay in level 4 and Waikato should increase to level 4 as well.

If we go to Level 3 as I suspect then even the most fearful amongst NZ must see that these levels are purely political and for theatre.
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September 20, 2021 9:38am
Greg Ettridge

Just in from Russian elections.
“Attacks on online voting systems were carried out from IP addresses in the United States (50%), Germany (25%), North Korea and a number of other countries – the Ministry of Digital Science.”
Who would have thought USA and Germany 75% of the attacks, you could have knocked me over with a feather, there is no attacks on voting systems, it doesn’t exist.
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September 20, 2021 9:39am
- Batman
  
  Greg who is reporting that?
  
  If it’s a Russian source, it’s not worth the webpage it’s written on.
  
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  September 20, 2021 10:38am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Do you check under your bed for Russians every night?
    
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    September 20, 2021 11:01am
    - Batman
      
      No, just polezny duraks helping malignant influences.
      
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      September 20, 2021 11:22am
  - Ed Snack
    
    And if it is a US source is worth even less, since most of the media there puts up the stories they are told to by the Democrats, as witness the whole “Russian Collusion” narrative from 2016 on.
    
    As we see from the Sussman indictment, all invented.
    
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    September 20, 2021 12:34pm
    - Batman
      
      Ed you really wanted to say that huh? A classic squirrel tactic. I’ll deal with that in a second.
      
      On the Russian source thing, I’ll just point out that you don’t have a rebuttal to it, only more political talking points. The fact remains that Russian state media cannot and should not be trusted when it makes claims of election hacking. It is merely projection fed to willing recipients.. all part of the chaos strategy.
      
      I was wondering when someone would bring up the Sussman thing. I see Fox and Co have been hyperventilating over it as it proved all the lies etc etc.
      
      To get an indictment is a fairly high standard so there definitely something to the case. Though I note that it does have a narrative of Trump-as-victim as explained here: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1438887564761448450.html
      
      It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out and whether the claims made stack up. Sussman has pled not guilty so there will be a trial.
      
      That this is all Durham has come up with is fairly telling.
      
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      September 20, 2021 12:51pm
Tony Stuart

The new MIQ system seems to be working as intended; that’s if the intention is to keep people out!

Just been listening to a caller to Newstalk ZB who logged on at 8.02am, and was 23,000th in the queue; colour me surprised!
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September 20, 2021 9:43am
- DeepBlue
  
  Hipkins did say last week that the lobby system would tell them more about demand. 23K is not enough votes to worry about.
  
  What it doesn’t tell them is the pent up demand to leave NZ with the surety of an MIQ place to return to for family and business.
  
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  September 20, 2021 10:28am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    If 23K can afford to travel, they will not be Labour voters
    
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    September 20, 2021 11:18am
- Batman
  
  With 3,000 rooms being released today that doesn’t make for comforting viewing for approximately 20,000 people…
  
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  September 20, 2021 10:37am
  - Sacha
    
    Do couples get priority? Surely some of the singles could double up?
    
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    September 20, 2021 1:47pm
- Lexicon
  
  The hopelessness of the system beggars belief, Tony.
  
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  September 20, 2021 12:18pm
Yvette

Fresh calls for Crown apology over canings for speaking te reo at school
A former Labour government Māori Affairs Minister, Dover Samuels, is renewing calls for Māori to receive an official apology from the Crown, for the generation who were beaten for speaking te reo in school.
Two years ago he told RNZ that when he started school [attending the Waiharara Native School at Matauri Bay in the 1940s], the only language he and other Ngāpuhi children knew was te reo Māori
But if they were heard speaking te reo, even in the playground, they were sent out by their teacher to cut lengths of supplejack and whipped with it – often until they bled.
And while the cuts had healed, the hurt had not, he said.

Samuels believes an apology should come directly from the monarchy as such beatings also happened under the Queen’s reign.
“Wouldn’t that be wonderful if she commissioned Prince William, the future king, to come down to Aotearoa – and apologise to the Māori nation – wouldn’t that be wonderful.”
He said it would be ironic if the incoming Governor-General, Dame Cindy Kiro – who is Māori – was asked to make the apology and he would prefer it came from Prince William.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/09/fresh-calls-for-crown-apology-over-canings-for-speaking-te-reo-at-school.html

A reference Maggy gave a few days ago (I can not now find the link) – referred to a Maori petition requesting restraint of te reo use in schools, favouring teaching English.

And is Samuels’ comment, regarding incoming Governor-General, Dame Cindy Kiro, simply racist?

The appointment of Dame Cindy for a five-year term has been approved by the Queen and she will take up the role in October – when one assumes she will make the oath –
“I, [name], swear that I will duly and impartially serve Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her heirs and successors, in the office of Governor-General and Commander-in-Chief in and over Her Realm of New Zealand, comprising New Zealand, the self-governing state of the Cook Islands, the self-governing state of Niue, Tokelau, and the Ross Dependency, in accordance with their respective laws and customs. So help me God”.

Dame Cindy Kiro will be – empowered to exercise the Royal Prerogative (royal powers), including the reserve powers, on behalf of the sovereign. However, when she is present in New Zealand the Queen may exercise her powers personally.

If Dame Cindy Kiro is obliged on behalf of the Queen to apologise to Maori, should her Maori descent have anything to do with it, considering the oath she will take?

And One special royal relationship is that of Queen Elizabeth II and her grandson Prince William, who is second-in-line to the throne behind his father, Prince Charles, and will one day be king (via the BBC). – Google
So Dover’s mention of “Prince William, the future king” should be “Prince William, a future king” so why pick on him?
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September 20, 2021 9:43am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Are they going to bring Sir Apirana Ngata to explain his forceful persuading Maori children to use the language of the future?
  
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  September 20, 2021 10:27am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Perhaps an inappropriate (under current context)
  question.
  re
  “Fresh calls for Crown apology over canings for speaking te reo at school”
  How many kids caned for speaking in class?
  (any language).
  
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  September 20, 2021 10:42am
- marcw
  
  This was the reference provided by Cobalt24 last week:
  
  http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-BIM873TeHa-t1-g1-t2.html
  
  “Petition of Wi Te Hakiro and 336 others (part of)
  [Translation.] — 7. “Native Schools Act, 1867.”
  
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  September 20, 2021 10:43am
  - Yvette
    
    marcw – thank you
    
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    September 20, 2021 11:50am
Ra Henare

Hello New Zealand.
A glimpse of your future government, provided by the Commissioners in Tauranga City Council appointed by the lady with the Moko.

After creating a Maori Ward, the commisioners have created some committees.
Including:
Tauranga City Council – Strategy, Finance & Risk Committee Membership
Chairperson Commission Chair Anne Tolley
Deputy chairperson Dr Wayne Beilby – Tangata Whenua representative
Members
Commissioner Shadrach Rolleston(Maori)
Commissioner Stephen Selwood
Commissioner Bill Wasley
Matire Duncan, Te Rangapū Mana Whenua o Tauranga Moana Chairperson
Te Pio Kawe – Tangata Whenua representative
Rohario Murray – Tangata Whenua representative
Bruce Robertson – External appointee with finance and risk experience
Quorum
Five (5) members must be physically present, and at least three (3) commissioners and two (2) externally appointed members must be present.

At 10:30am today they meet to agree participation in the 3 Waters Project-promoted by that same lady with the Moko.

Can we see something interesting here?
Does 50% of the vote ring a bell?
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September 20, 2021 9:45am
- Cassandra
  
  Well, I wrote to Mrs Tolley telling her I oppose the 3 waters scheme, as did many others.
  
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  September 20, 2021 11:05am
- Littletramp
  
  Wakey, wakey folks you are in a war, but have not armed yourselves or moved onto the battle field yet.
  The “maori” team, have felt aggrieved for some years now and rather than sit back and complain have spent the time educating their young in the wily ways of the west. They now have many of those savvy youngsters strategically placed in governing positions and they are exercising their muscle to take back what they are feel was stolen.
  They have moved on education, govt and media to win hearts and minds, and to position themselves to hold leverage.
  That is exactly how the game is played, and you can’t blame them.
  Question is, what are you going to do about it?
  
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  September 20, 2021 11:50am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Vote Act, and I talk politics (verbally, not social media) as often as I can with my friends and acquittances.
    I am a sceptic of the aims of the government, social justic causes and identity politics.
    Its all toxic and anti-intellectual.
    I can only hope more people see sense.
    
    But I am stuck at the level of going ‘harumpf, harumpf’ fairly ineffectively.
    The activists never sleep and never give an inch back where they have gained. it is a sad affair and decades in the making, unfolding in schools and councils and even private businesses around the country.
    I can only resist the BS in my own sphere of activity and my own household.
    ……….Not strapping on a suicide vest just yet!
    
    But on the weekend, one thing that made me smile…the wife gives to charities, once long ago even Greenpeace or to Buddhist charities.
    I roll my eyes.
    On Saturday she came and said I would probably be upset again, but that she gave a few hundred $$ to ACT and another payment to Muriel Newman. I was far from upset, and actually quite chuffed. A great stride from giving to Greenpeace.
    She is a big David Seymour fan these days, and I have suggested she tell some of the ladies in her circle (some are Jacinda-fans) what she thinks about things going on.
    Be her authentic self!
    I certainly tell all and sundry what I think of Hugzilla, SJWs and Maori-toxic grievance and racial-based fixation.
    No Sir, I do not like it.
    
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    September 20, 2021 3:02pm
Spoff

“Something dangerous has happened to Australia.

We have allowed the interests of ‘collective health’ to erase individual human rights.

It has become acceptable to imprison, hurt, fine, intimidate, arrest, segregate, discriminate, oppress, and financially ruin individuals – so long as it is done in the interest of public health.

While the personal ethics of our politicians should have prevented a situation like this from arising, Australia has learned that there isn’t a scrap of morality within Parliament, the courts, or the legions of human rights lawyers who show more interest in the wellbeing of terrorists than citizens……..”
https://spectator.com.au/2021/09/coivd-the-new-world-order/
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September 20, 2021 9:46am
- Fletch
  
  They are creating an “us and them” situation between the vaxxed and unvaxxed, where the vaxxed will be given special privileges. This is state coercion, forcing people to take an experimental drug when they may not want to. It’s creating classes of people, or an almost caste system.
  
  Fully vaccinated adults in the 12 local government areas that have been subjected to stricter restrictions will from Monday be able to exercise outdoor with no limits and gather in groups of five for outdoor recreation.
  
  Once 70 per cent of Victorians are double vaccinated, which is forecast for October 26,metropolitan Melbourne’s 9pm-5am curfew will be lifted and the 10km travel limit will be increased to 25km.
  
  Pubs, restaurants and cafes will be able to open outdoors, with a limit of 50 fully vaccinated people.
  
  Hairdressing can return for the fully vaccinated with a maximum of five people in a salon at a time.
  
  Outdoor gatherings can increase to a maximum of 10 fully vaccinated people or five unvaccinated, while outdoor pools, community facilities and sport can return with a cap of 50 vaccinated people.
  
  Outdoor religious gatherings can also take place for up to 50 vaccinated people and 20 unvaccinated, though for weddings only 10 unvaccinated people can attend.
  
  Year 12 students can go back to face-to-face learning for the start of term four on October 6, with a staggered return of other years starting with Prep to Year 2s on October 18.
  
  The remaining year levels will be able to return on October 26 but only Year 7 and Year 11s will be able to attend five days per week.
  
  Once 80 per cent of eligible Victorians are vaccinated, retail, hairdressing and beauty services, and childcare can reopen for the fully-vaccinated, with strict density limits, and hospitality can return indoors.
  
  People will be able to have private gatherings of up to 10 vaccinated people, while at Christmas it is expected that will increase to 30.
  
  https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/world/nsw-restrictions-set-ease-despite-1083-cases-today
  
  It’s very divisive and segregationist and won’t end well.
  
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  September 20, 2021 12:19pm
RW Capitalist

More proof, that these clowns can’t walk and chew gum at the same time.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126427049/missing-lockdown-cancers-yet-to-be-measured-but-history-paints-ominous-picture

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/126383960/essential-workers-leaving-aotearoa-for-other-open-doors-to-residency

Other questions
How’s poverty going
how’s housing/ homelessness going
elective surgery
and ALL the other things that govt.s are responsible for?
Let alone all the things YOU said you were going to do/achieve?
Especially now that your covid response (elimination) has fallen apart. (after almost every country came to the conclusion that elimination was impossible).
Now you need to be going back to where you SHOULD have started….protect the vulnerable, instead of you political reputation.
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September 20, 2021 9:51am
RW Capitalist

Attributed to Churchill
“Americans can always be trusted to do the right thing, once all other possibilities have been exhausted.”

In our case

“Labour can always be trusted to do the right thing, if all other possibilities, agree with socialism and have been exhausted.”

This has NEVER happened in actual fact.
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September 20, 2021 10:06am
sooty

You would think that when Ministry of Justice,
lets out their prisoners they are covid free!
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September 20, 2021 10:14am
- Tony Stuart
  
  It’s not the MoJ; the Corrections Department, and Minister Kelvin Davis are the ones responsible for this clustershambles.
  
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  September 20, 2021 10:50am
- ecco
  
  Did you see Robertson on the AM show this morning when asked how come a prisoner can be released from Level 4 area to a level 2 area where everyone else in Auckland is locked up tight? Robertson said it’s not his fault. He left it to the Courts. Of course it’s not his fault.
  
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  September 20, 2021 2:47pm
Maggie Pie

My partner was just saying….. if the CCP let ‘EVERGRANDE’ go tits-up for the $300 billion it owes shareholders, we could well see number of ‘top end’ properties come to market by Chinese investors in Auckland needing to cash up.
Be ready to pounce!

https://twitter.com/WallStreetSilv/status/1439384607498113024
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September 20, 2021 10:15am
- Ed Snack
  
  Evergrande isn’t the only Chinese developer in strife, just the biggest. The CCP has promulgated new rules regarding leverage and financing (did so a few months back), and it is those that are causing the problem.
  
  A huge chunk of Chinese capital has been pushed/pulled into real estate in the past few years, and the CCP wants to “correct the mis allocation” which has starved other parts of the economy of investment. Hence the new rules.
  
  Evergrande has specialised in speculative development where they buy the land at almost any price, set out plans to develop and sell off the plans to investors who thereby take up most of the risk. When the values were rising as they did, this worked, but with the new rules, EG can’t leverage like it used to and is rather short of cash, hence can’t make debt repayments, or refinance as that would break the new rules on leverage.
  
  Quite likely a massive crash coming and the CCP has now limited means to pump liquidity in to prevent a wider contagion. The situation is, as they say, developing.
  
  Might be a time of danger as when internal issues create instability, an external threat can distract and deflect. So watch out Taiwan.
  
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  September 20, 2021 12:43pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    And if I heard right, pretty sure my partner said there was something like 85 million empty apartments in Chynaa!
    Oz must be worried about the demand for steel going forward?
    
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    September 20, 2021 2:07pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      And 100-150million people less in china than official figures claim, huge overreporting of child births for 20 years by Bureaucrats looking for more state funding for imaginary kids.
      
      PRC’s demographic pyramid is a nightmare, with working population already shrinking, 2x as many 50 year olds as 5 year olds, 15% excess of men compared to women in under 30’s. In two decades they will be effectively like a normal country of 700million supporting 600 million extra retirees (average age likely above 50)
      
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      September 20, 2021 5:30pm
  - ecco
    
    Couldn’t China just start printing some money to cover this, like everyone else does?
    
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    September 20, 2021 2:45pm
  - artemisia
    
    Not dissimilar to what is happening here, albeit on a much smaller scale. Lot of talk about consents, maybe all good for standalone houses and suburban subdivisions. But apartment blocks? Only if developers sell enough off the plans to keep the bank happy. In 2019 Colliers reported 49 consented Auckland apartment developments were cancelled the previous year. Various reasons given but likely bank finance was a major, even with cheap money.
    
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    September 20, 2021 7:25pm
kevn

@Maggie… I wonder how much influence Evergrande money has on all the Chinese property developers in Auckland? They seem to make up a large percentage.
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September 20, 2021 10:33am
Prince

Given the heartbreak for families hoping to spend Christmas together this year…
https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/126431022/november-and-december-miq-spots-gone-in-67-minutes-thousands-miss-out
..when will our smitten media start pestering Ardern about her decision not to build a purpose-built isolation unit 15 months ago, when National suggested it ?
Like they would be hounding National if the boot was on the other foot.
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September 20, 2021 10:40am
rangitoto

Who is number one?

You are number six.
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September 20, 2021 10:43am
sooty

What’s the difference between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated, when they can both catch, transmit the dreaded covid!
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September 20, 2021 10:56am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Best ask the pink terror, or a math prof
  
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  September 20, 2021 11:15am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    Yes, because there is nobody on kiwiblog who is capable of understanding the concept and the relevance of probability.
    
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    September 20, 2021 11:45am
    - Ed Snack
      
      It is a relevant question with regard to spread. As best we understand from extant data, the vaccinated are less likely to “catch” and less likely to need hospitalisation or die; but they do catch, they do spread, and they do die.
      
      I think it is unconfirmed and possibly debatable, but there are suggestions that the vaccinated in fact carry higher viral loads when infected so act as super-spreaders.
      
      The real safe ones are those who have had and recovered. Very low risk of reinfection, and lower viral loads if they do.
      
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      September 20, 2021 12:46pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I am still asking ‘ when can I have a Covid antibody test. Seems to be a hot potato – esp from MOH
      
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      September 20, 2021 3:45pm
    - Observer of Life
      
      Uuugh.. upticked by accident.
      
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      September 20, 2021 11:33pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    You will find her breaking her own L4 rules, at the beach with her friend.
    
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    September 20, 2021 12:29pm
    - ecco
      
      Notice there was a panel of ‘experts’ on the AM show being asked what they think should happen today. Where is Wiles? She seems to have been subbed out for that fellow Jackson? Is she appearing on the more benign Breakfast show for questions?
      
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      September 20, 2021 2:49pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Could turn into a yuge movement – pink terrors all over the fucking beaches.
      I want to go 5 to 20km offshore in my boat. Nope, ‘stay at home peasant’
      
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      September 20, 2021 3:49pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  It basically comes down to the harshness of the virus when you catch it (and you will catch it).
  
  The less people that get vaccinated, the more people will get hospitalised and you run the risk of overwhelming the hospitals.
  
  And that’s about it.
  
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  September 20, 2021 1:02pm
- Sacha
  
  The basic reason for being vaccinated is that you won’t get the disease.
  If you are vaccinated, you may ‘carry’ the infection, but you won’t get sick (it has made your immune system resist invasion).
  What you may do, is spread the infectious agent and contaminate someone else who may or may not get sick –
  If you are unvaccinated you may become infected by another unvaccinated person – or some one who IS vaccinated, but is carrying the virus/bacteria.
  So, one becomes vaccinated as a matter of self-interest, not for the good of all mankind.
  
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  September 20, 2021 2:12pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Sheep shit.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q3ett4jmxtpk8wi/sheep%20shit.jpg?dl=0
3 3
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September 20, 2021 11:04am
Fletch

This will be interesting. Project Veritas is uploading a video tomorrow with insider/whistleblower info on the Covid Vax.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuTb6TDudvY
8 1
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September 20, 2021 12:09pm
- Ed Snack
  
  Cue Batman to libel Veritas and claim that they doctor videos. When that is one thing they have NOT been shown to have done; post excerpts sure, but not deceptive editing unlike the MSM.
  
  16 1
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  September 20, 2021 12:48pm
rjay

I’ve been looking at the Covid resilience Index. We have slipped to #29. Haven’t seen it reported anywhere? Has anyone?
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-resilience-ranking/
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September 20, 2021 1:06pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Interesting data.
  
  Lockdown severity: –
  1. NZ (96)
  2. Malaysia (81)
  3. Mainland China (79)
  4. Chile (79)
  5. Iraq (76)
  6. Argentina (76)
  
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  September 20, 2021 1:35pm
  - ecco
    
    Wow that takes a lot of be locked down more than communist China. Certainly feels like living in communist China or worse.
    
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    September 20, 2021 1:48pm
- ecco
  
  Thanks for this. I thought we were coming first. Wasn’t that what the Ferald and Stuff were trumpeting a few weeks ago?? Where are they now? Nowhere to be seen. About par for the course.
  
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  September 20, 2021 1:47pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Male Karen, being a mask Nazi. Why didn’t someone just drop him?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HDgjr7PIqQ&t=98s
7 1
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September 20, 2021 1:29pm
Stu2

As of midnight Sunday 73% of those eligible have a first dose (3.093m people).

But there are only 212,000 first dose bookings, and that number has been slowly dropping.

90% looks some way off
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September 20, 2021 1:32pm
- NoFax
  
  It looks very clear now that we will not get to 90% of the eligible population – I think for certain age groups probably 50% at best for the older maybe 90%.
  
  Given that Covid is more dangerous the older one gets this makes the most sense. Despite the lies form certain quarters, Covid does not effect the young the same as the elderly.
  
  The 65+ are at 70% double dose – there is no reason to remain lockdown now or any restrictions except the government has not prepared the message properly and there are people thinking if they get Covid they will die.
  
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  September 20, 2021 2:01pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    “there are people thinking if they get Covid they will die.”
    Are these the silly old gits driving around alone with a mask on? And a Labour party membership card in their wallet?
    
    9 1
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    September 20, 2021 4:47pm
    - Tauhei Notts
      
      If you get vaccinated you are going to die. Fact.
      If you don’t get vaccinated you are going to die. Fact.
      If you get vaccinated your chances of dieing a gruesome and horrible death are a damned sight less.
      Play the odds. Get vaccinated.
      
      3 2
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      September 20, 2021 6:19pm
- krazykiwi
  
  The 90% target legitimises the mandated jabbing of babies, infants and children .. to ‘help’ us get there.
  
  In the US Pfizer is applying for a licence to jab babies, and in the UK politicians have overruled advisors to start jabbing children without parental consent.
  
  Won’t happen here though. Right?
  
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  September 20, 2021 5:45pm
ecco

If I were in Waikato I would go further south for a bit, if you were going to visit family or something, just in case the idiots decide to put the Waikato back into Level 4 indefinitely. I can tell you it’s a right PITA living in level 4 indefinitely. If you find that the Princess and Blofield don’t lock down your region then you can quite easily come back home.

In saying that I don’t think she’d have the balls to put the whole Waikato region in lockdown. She’ll come up with some BS about only having to put hat small town where the outbreak is, into lockdown.
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September 20, 2021 2:52pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  And that’s exactly what she did.
  
  5 0
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  September 20, 2021 4:48pm
Nickc2

Breaking Live
The Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union (CFMEU) are restless in Chairman Dan’s Marxist Victorian state in Aust.

https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2021/09/live-now-will-police-take-on-the-cfmeu-in-melbourne-streets.html
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September 20, 2021 3:17pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Yikes. The rank’n’file working hating on their union leaders. No elite is safe anymore. Liberté, égalité, fraternité with an Aussie accent.
  
  7 1
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  September 20, 2021 4:19pm
- Jibber NO Jabber
  
  Construction workers protesting in the streets and the spineless Victorian po-lice nowhere to be seen.
  
  https://twitter.com/OzraeliAvi/status/1439790301015527429
  
  No little old ladies to smash to the ground and pepper spray?
  
  6 1
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  September 20, 2021 4:52pm
Hugh Jarse

I see Stuff are making a big fuss about Kieran McAnulty selling his “famous” red Ute. So this is now the level of sycophantic behaviour we have to get used to from our beloved MSM, this is what $110 million gets you. Pravda light, all hail the rulers. Of course they also report on three staffers leaving Judiths office.
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September 20, 2021 3:36pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Red Ute. Does he own it or is it provided???
Anyway, he will get one of those electric Utes that Jaspinda said she was spinning about.
Oh wait, Toyota called her hand – she folded
6 3
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September 20, 2021 3:55pm
Ehlana

So, we’re now 13 minutes past 4pm and still no word…
6 0
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September 20, 2021 4:14pm
- MCos
  
  What else were you going to do?
  
  1 0
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  September 20, 2021 8:01pm
Maggie Pie

BREAKING @4pm Briefing –

1Ewes Corozon Millar reports……
Police gave chase when two gang members did a U-turn from a South Auckland Checkpoint and sped away.
.After stopping the vehicle, it was found they had $100k in cash in the boot….. and a large quantity of KFC.

LOL!!
18 2
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September 20, 2021 4:17pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Is KFC like ‘lawnmowers?’
  
  8 2
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  September 20, 2021 4:30pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  Kwality Fucking Cocaine?
  After all they are gang members.
  
  6 0
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  September 20, 2021 6:27pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Pollos Hermanos!
  
  4 0
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  September 20, 2021 8:13pm
Ehlana

Level 3 from tomorrow night 11:59pm for at least 2 weeks for Auckland …
7 0
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September 20, 2021 4:18pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Masks at work? If required, then no work for me. You can not do a physical job in the ‘cut and weld it’ industry
  
  5 3
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  September 20, 2021 4:32pm
  - Ehlana
    
    The requirement for employees to wear masks is linked to being a public facing role, or driving (taxi or delivery to residential addresses).
    
    As I don’t imagine customers are allowed to wander through your workshop and you’re probably 2m away from your colleagues while working anyway, it sounds like you will be okay.
    
    Besides which, if you’re welding, don’t you wear a face shield anyway? I’d think that would keep the bugs away.
    
    6 0
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    September 20, 2021 4:48pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Hand held welding mask. Head mask buggered my neck 40 years ago. I am a one handed MIG welder and I do it well
      
      9 2
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      September 20, 2021 4:54pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Ehlana – Level 4 with KFC!
  See my 5:15 comment on “The case for level 3 for Auckland” post. Having connection prob on lappie and hard to add link on my mobile.
  
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  September 20, 2021 5:45pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Waffle waffle waffle Waffle waffle waffle Waffle waffle waffle Waffle waffle waffle Waffle waffle waffle Waffle waffle waffle.
Anyone else got a headache and just would like a beer/whiskey?
18 4
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September 20, 2021 4:34pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Thanks for the uptick Mike – they got to you at last buddy
  
  8 3
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  September 20, 2021 4:37pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Those voices, Steve, they’re coming from inside your head.
    
    3 1
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    September 20, 2021 6:00pm
- ecco
  
  Turned on the radio at 4.30pm. Ardern and Blofield still waffling on. Acutely irritating to listen to the woman. Treats the journos horrendously like kindigarten children.
  
  Back pedal if I ever saw one. The fact that she was still trying to justify her 100% U turn at 4.30pm says it all. Has she ever heard the saying ‘explaining is losing’. Obviously not.
  
  Now all her henchmen scientists trying to somehow say it’s ‘all good’ with them (or else they won’t be kept on as messengers…). Hendy was struggling to have to toe the party line on HDPA’s show just now.
  
  Two weeks more in lockdown level 3 will be far too long for many businesses up in Auckland. Probably still tip them over the edge. Sadly. She’s stating she’s doing them a favour – ‘giving people certainty’.
  
  Ardern’s a classic isn’t she. Since when has she ever cared about the business community and giving them certainty. Never. Anyway a Clayton’s move down for Akl. Huge back pedal from Ardern, but still no apology or admission of error.
  
  14 2
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  September 20, 2021 5:26pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    NZ political twatter (where very left wing people express increasingly left wing views to other very left wing people) is a sight to behold at the moment. Fraser house has unleashed the ravening horde and they are spinning so hard that something other than Ardern’s pants is likely to catch fire.
    
    5 0
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    September 20, 2021 5:49pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Now all I can think about is whisky…
  
  4 2
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  September 20, 2021 5:31pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    That’s better…but what are the poor people having?
    
    1 2
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    September 20, 2021 5:34pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      RTDs
      
      4 0
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      September 20, 2021 8:14pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Lead to STDs.
        
        1 0
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        September 20, 2021 9:01pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  My oldest son has piled up quite the bar of spirits and got into making cocktails, so I’m sitting with a Lime Ricky in hand. Apparently it’s the classic Washington D.C. 19th century cocktail.
  
  I can almost feel the lobbyist dollars slipping into my pocket as I sip.
  
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  September 20, 2021 7:23pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It’s usually too much bother to add a split, let alone making a cocktail, Tom.
    
    1 0
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    September 20, 2021 9:07pm
Ehlana

So, butchers, greengrocers, supermarkets, dairies, fishmongers – what about bakeries?

Surely people who bake bread should be just as good at hygiene as people who make sausages?
10 0
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September 20, 2021 4:51pm
- MCos
  
  Bakeries what?
  Will they be open under Level 3?
  Yes. Order your stuff at the door.
  
  3 0
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  September 20, 2021 7:52pm
BeaB

The infantilisation of NZ. Reporter with silly girlish voice on Checkpoint doing an Auckland vox pop. Main question “will you be getting takeaways?”
12 1
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September 20, 2021 5:14pm
krazykiwi

Social distancing still mandated in the Netherlands. This is how the Dutch are now responding:

https://mobile.twitter.com/aginnt/status/1439616242516733961
4 1
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September 20, 2021 5:24pm
Stu2

So what happens if cases due to the level 3 relaxation start turning up in 10 days or so? Will 14 days be long enough?

And will the rest of NZ continue to be stuck in level 2? That is increasingly looking over done
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September 20, 2021 5:39pm
- dcrane
  
  Seems unavoidable that cases will track upwards now, assuming the testing is maintained at pace. Hopefully slowly enough that the government isn’t panicked back into Level 4.
  
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  September 20, 2021 5:47pm
PeeJay

So we are still following the science are we? The same science that locked down an entire country because of 1 single case? The same science that now says we can move our largest population region down an alert level despite 22 new cases? Presume this is the same science that says we can’t move the rest of the country down to level 1 despite no cases? Or in the south islands case, no move down alert level despite no cases for almost a year? But we are obviously still following the science…..oh and we are absolutely committed to elimination despite having ongoing cases. Yup, makes perfect sense. Sheesh. That’s a lot of verbal gymnastics in there!
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September 20, 2021 7:46pm
- gorse
  
  Read Barry Soper’s article on the newstalkzb website. He explains it clearly.
  
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  September 20, 2021 8:29pm
smttc

You said what we are all thinking.
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September 20, 2021 8:06pm
Inthe09

I think we can safely say the elimination strategy has been abandoned today – not that it’ll ever be acknowledged, but anyone with half a brain can read between the lines.

So what does that mean from here:

There will still be the 1pm party political broadcasts – but the audience (especially in Auckland) will start to fall away

Numbers will track up, and desperate to stay relevant our MSM will pimp that message for everything they’ve got – cue even more hysterical commentary from ‘the chosen ones’ – but many, particularly in Auckland, will say – it’s over, get off the stage.

In the days or at most weeks ahead there will be a case in the lower North Island, and then as virus’s have done for the length of time a case will turn up in the South Island. Cue more panic from sections of the public and media ‘personalities’ trying to extend their well used by 15 minutes of fame. Those of us in Auckland will shrug our shoulders and get on with life. Once it’s endemic we’re all equal again.

We’ll be threatened with a return to level 4, and sinister messages about Christmas and summer locked at home – but more and more people will give the finger to anyone pushing that message. The focus groups will back it up and it’ll turn into L2 for Christmas because, well, COVID is politics.

Our vaccination rate will stall somewhere around the 80% mark, just as it has in most other Western countries. We’ll be threatened with more lockdowns and restrictions unless we get over 90% but a decent chunk of the population will know that was always a pipe dream. Being NZ there’ll be the usual nasty undercurrent of finger pointing at anyone who hasn’t had the vaccine. NZ is good like that.

Our hospital system will be shown up as being totally, and utterly, unprepared to cope with the numbers who do end up there. A NZ ‘personality’ with no known health issues will end up terribly sick with COVID and their family will go around the media sharing their story on Facebook. The MSM will jump into damage control mode. The Government will point at some obscure Department and say how disappointed they are. Nothing will change. Our frontline doctors and nurse will do their best despite the appalling management they work under.

In all of this we’ll be no different than Melbourne, or Sydney, or NSW, or any part of America or Europe you’d like to mention – the virus will spread, people will get sick, some will end up in hospital and yes, some will die. We’ve been dying forever, this is not new.

Winter 2022 will be a disaster zone for NZ, COVID combined with a return of the other seasonal virus’s we skipped a year to two of will lead to a last role of the dice and more restrictions on our freedoms. I hope by the time we head into summer next year we’ll have caught up to where Europe is today – living life, enjoying the activities we want to do and accepting COVID as just another thing we live with as part of going out the front door each morning. The focus groups will have spoken.
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September 20, 2021 8:54pm
- Stu2
  
  In the short term there is always a chance that the current strategy will get lucky and get down to no cases. Hard to tell as we don’t know why these household clusters keep popping up.
  
  Across the ditch construction sites have produced a lot of cases, and they will be starting up again in Auck on Wednesday. Could be clean here, but I wouldn’t hold my breath. Depends what is left in the community and where.
  
  It doesn’t take a lot for delta to get motoring. Victoria was in the 20s, then the 50s, then the 80s and now the 500s each day.
  
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  September 20, 2021 9:48pm

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