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October 9, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 09 October 2021

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General Debate

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Benedict Yu

Chris Bishop is the latest politician to demonstrate faulty logic about COVID.

“The critical point I make is that we’re going to have to provide the ability for greater freedoms for people who are a vaccinated as compared to people who are unvaccinated,” National’s Covid-19 Response spokesman Chris Bishop said on Friday.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/126625746/covid19-pressure-on-government-for-weeks-ahead-as-northland-locks-down-and-vaccine-campaign-takes-centre-stage

That makes no sense. As the virus gets going, many of the people who were vaccinated early in the programme are going to get infected. They will be highly contagious and infect the unvaccinated.

There is no point in punishing the unvaccinated if large numbers of the vaccinated spread the virus just as effectively.

This is what Chris Bishop should say…..

“The vaccine will not stop you being infected. It will slow down transmission, and considerably at first. However the effectiveness of the vaccine at preventing infections declines significantly after 9 months. That means that eventually we are all going to be infected. ***THREE JOURNALISTS IN PRESS CONFERENCE FAINT *** What? Yes I know that Jacinda has not mentioned that. Oops.

I am asking you to be vaccinated because the vaccine still works for a long time to protect you from serious illness and death. We might need to give the vulnerable a booster shot but most of you will be fine.

You can all make your own choices. The Opposition is calling for the Government to announce that on 1 January 2022 all restrictions will be lifted and the borders will be open. The virus will spread throughout New Zealand over the next few years. If you are vaccinated you will probably be fine. If you are unvaccinated and are elderly, obese, a smoker, or in any way vulnerable, I think you are making a serous mistake. But your choice. Good luck.”
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October 9, 2021 8:00am
- krazykiwi
  
  Note to Bishop: It’s not the government’s role to “provide freedoms”.
  
  It’s the government’s job to protect civil liberties from annexation.
  
  Big difference.
  
  One you clearly don’t understand.
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:08am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    That takes judgement and discrimination. Where’s that evident?
    
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    October 9, 2021 8:27am
    - tf78
      
      Kev, have you seen “Hope New Zealand” yet, it’s absolutely brilliant.
      
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      October 9, 2021 10:12am
      - Bridgenag
        
        https://youtu.be/VxKY6WGaL54 Please send on to the younger ones soon to vote under Cindy
        
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        October 9, 2021 1:43pm
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      I am so over this lockdown tyranny.
      
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      October 9, 2021 12:01pm
  - dannz
    
    In principle I think there is a valid argument that the unvaccinated should stay at 1 alert level higher than the vaccinated due to being at higher risk of death.
    
    A similar concept to different alert levels in different regions, although unlikely to be as effective or enforcable.
    
    Although personally I am in favour of setting a deadline to opening up, and leaving it to personal cost benefit analysis after that.
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:18am
    - krazykiwi
      
      You should consider that “higher risk of death” a little more broadly. Older people are at higher risk of death. So are the obese. So are those suffering anxiety. Who will decide what amalgam of confounding factors will show one person at “higher risk of death” than another? A committee, perhaps?
      
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      October 9, 2021 1:51pm
      - dannz
        
        That’s also an arguable proposition, though as you imply the practical application would probably be too complex.
        
        Having a separate alert level for those unvaccinated would be relatively simple to administer, and could conceivably have public health advantages.
        
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        October 9, 2021 3:36pm
      - dannz
        
        Further, age etc is impossible for an individual to change, and is protected grounds under human rights legislation.
        
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        October 9, 2021 3:44pm
      - Surely Knott
        
        And young teen men are at the very highest risk of adverse reactions to the vaccine and a very low risk of serious disease. . The JCVI believes the risk does not outweigh the reward for teens. So pushing them to take that vax by creating increased restrictions to social activities with their peers is both immoral and unscientific.
        
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        October 9, 2021 6:49pm
- Charmaine Hawke
  
  Benedict this is the approach we should be taking but it seems that politicians of all stripes have taken this as a once in a lifetime chance to grab power. However, I think this is due to fear on their part that they will get the blame if people die and now they seem to have succumbed to a Stockholm syndrome of their own making and we get to go along unwillingly for the ride.
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:10am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Australian cop whistleblower here. And she’s the equity leader so BIG embarrassment for government and police:
    
    https://youtu.be/0Kn6AFl5G1c
    
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    October 9, 2021 9:02am
    - tf78
      
      What a great woman, I’m sure there are lot of our Cops that feel the same way. Well worth the watch thank you.
      
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      October 9, 2021 11:58am
  - rouppe
    
    I think this is due to fear on their part that they will get the blame if people die
    
    That is exactly what it is. Many of the statements from the Podium of Tooth show that.
    
    “Abundance of caution”, “advice from the Director General of Health”, the 90% target before loosening anything instead of 75 or 80, locking down with one case that is so sick (not) she can go tell everyone to piss off she ain’t answering any questions.
    
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    October 9, 2021 9:21am
  - Clownworld
    
    Charmaine agree, however not only are politicans considering optics and what wins votes, they are all puppets of global pressure from UN, WHO etc. Appeasing global interests rather than logical decisions of serving the people first gets lost in the great deception/ reset.
    
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    October 9, 2021 3:14pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Seems like whatever National propose, Labour will do the exact opposite out of spite.
  How about some tricky psychology to beat them at their own game?
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:13am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    It’s just arrogance and stupidity, it’s not 5D chess.
    
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    October 9, 2021 8:31am
    - oldfella
      
      Politicians are the same all over. They promise to build a bridge even where there is no river. ~ Nikita Khrushchev, Russian Soviet politician
      
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      October 9, 2021 9:42am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    They don’t have a clue. Judith saying the unvaccinated should be barred from supermarkets was a red flag for me.
    
    National needs to stick to a simple message. Treat people like adults. Make your vaccine choice. We are opening up.
    
    I am coming to the conclusion that Judith and Chris Bishop have not followed the excellent data from Israel about how the Pfizer vaccine works. Remember Israel went VERY early. It only used Pfizer and it publishes excellent data and analysis of what has happened 9 months down the track. If Judith and Chris Bishop looked at this information they would not be proposing these stupid policies.
    
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    October 9, 2021 8:33am
    - Cinematic
      
      Ahhhh treat people like adults. There you have it. The government has assumed total control.
      
      It is now mother state and a country of minors.
      
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      October 9, 2021 8:56am
    - Ra Henare
      
      Small correction
      Israel used both Pfizer and moderna. Primarily Pfizer tho it has moved to Moderna for its booster shots
      https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-shifts-to-moderna-vaccine-as-minister-warns-delta-won-t-disappear-soon-1.10017431
      
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      October 9, 2021 9:04am
    - Colville
      
      Make your vaccine choice. We are opening up.
      
      A problem with this is that we dont have spare ICU capacity for the people who will need it and it will get very messy indeed.
      
      The Labour muppets have screwed the pooch on this and they will now be trying to play catchup but we know from experience of the last 4 years Labour NEVER deliver what is required.
      
      Personally I am a tad nervous as I get second jab next week so I will go thru a period of low immunity just as this thing is breaking out!
      
      I will rely on high blood/alcohol levels to combat any possible infection. 🙂
      
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      October 9, 2021 9:18am
    - TP4Shore
      
      If only they were being themselves and not sanitised version of themselves, they would probably say what they really think.
      
      This to me is not the Judith or the Chris we know.
      For once, could they be let off the chain and start having a proper crack?
      
      National has gone far to wet for my liking.
      
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      October 9, 2021 9:38am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Benedict Yu, that was the red flag for me as well. Collins has gone full retard left to pick up votes left by Labour going far far left. I was against the vax – scared of another severe anaphylaxis attack. I had the vax without incident.
      Judith Collins put yet another nail in National’s coffin. She will learn the hard way.
      
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      October 9, 2021 9:38am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I am very glad to read that you got the vaccine, Steve.
        
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        October 9, 2021 10:15am
      - Northshoredoc
        
        Good for you Steve, can I ask what your decision to have the vaccination was motivated by.
        
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        October 9, 2021 12:03pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Well Mike, I am the first to admit that the main reason was sever anaphylaxis, Scared the shit out of me, I had a close call with Dr Death.
        But Judith Collins defecting to your side was the last straw. I am alive and will have the second vax
        
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        October 9, 2021 2:39pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Northshoredoc. It was Collins defecting to the left. Vaccine passports to enter a supermarket my left fucking tit
        
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        October 9, 2021 2:41pm
    - tf78
      
      BY, is that her exact words, or was is the Media’s impression of what she said?
      
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      October 9, 2021 12:00pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Her words, on play school TV1. I am NOT looking for the link ok?
        
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        October 9, 2021 2:42pm
    - Clownworld
      
      Puppets National or Muppets Labour.
      The difference is negligble in terms of outcomes and narrative. Same objectives no clear alternatives presented.
      
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      October 9, 2021 3:17pm
  - Frank the tank
    
    I wouldn’t get too concerned sounds like the poisoned dwarf just outed Northland’s mystery guest and the Blairite is about to get ‘Tammed”.
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:20am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Hope ‘tammed’ is a double down version of tamed, one can only wish
      
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      October 9, 2021 2:50pm
- PhilBest
  
  Every time a National politician simply does the dirty work of the enemies of freedom and science, I think of THIS vignette:
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM-E2H1ChJM
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:18am
- Yvette
  
  Benedict Yu, in support of your points –
  Two real-world studies published Wednesday confirm that the immune protection offered by two doses of Pfizer’s Covid-19 vaccine drops off after two months or so, although protection against severe disease, hospitalization and death remains strong.
  The studies, from Israel and from Qatar and published in the New England Journal of Medicine, support arguments that even fully vaccinated people need to maintain precautions against infection.
  
  “BNT162b2-induced protection against infection builds rapidly after the first dose, peaks in the first month after the second dose, and then gradually wanes in subsequent months,” Laith Abu-Raddad of Weill Cornell Medicine-Qatar and colleagues wrote. “The waning appears to accelerate after the fourth month, to reach a low level of approximately 20% in subsequent months,” they added.
  Nonetheless, protection against hospitalization and death stayed at above 90%, they said.
  The waning protection may involve behavior, they noted. “Vaccinated persons presumably have a higher rate of social contact than unvaccinated persons and may also have lower adherence to safety measures,” they wrote. “This behavior could reduce real-world effectiveness of the vaccine as compared with its biologic effectiveness, possibly explaining the waning of protection.”
  https://us.cnn.com/2021/10/06/health/pfizer-vaccine-waning-immunity/index.html
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:27am
  - RockyJ
    
    This brings up the forgotten subject of a vaccine booster which the politicians are not talking about. Israel has provided boosters at 6 months after the second shot.
    There is no talk of where our boosters are. I was double vaxxed in June. I will be looking for a booster in early 2022.
    My prediction is that the government will fail on this as well and we will be once again stranded. They just don’t seem to learn.
    
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    October 9, 2021 8:40am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Thanks I have seen that.
    
    I have no idea whether Jacinda has been advised how the Pfizer vaccine works and what will unfold in New Zealand. Maybe she was advised and reacted badly. Now it is all “Don’t tell Jacinda what happened in Israel” ?
    
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    October 9, 2021 8:47am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Maybe tell her what happened in India instead ?
      
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      October 9, 2021 10:50am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    The salient point being not, “immune protection drops off after a couple of months or so”, but “protection against severe disease, hospitalisation and death remains strong”.
    
    That being the case, why do we need to upend our lives, our economy and our society to avoid infection? Since infection’s not going to kill us or even make us very sick, the point where the costs of avoiding it are greater than the costs of getting it must surely now be reached.
    
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    October 9, 2021 11:11am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  Both Bishop and National can fuck off then. My freedom has never been yours or anyone else’s. What an out of touch moron. None of these people should be anywhere near a position of power. Luckily, in Bishop’s and National’s case, that’s never going to happen.
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:27am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Your freedom will always be at the disposal of those who hold power. You just want a different set of people to hold that power.
    
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    October 9, 2021 8:55am
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      You are right: “your freedom” is precisely that. Mine. In a society, freedom isn’t absolute of course. But restrictions should be justified, not arbitrary. If Mr Potato Head or any other braindead politician thinks otherwise, then they risk ending up having a “Mussolini moment” (and not of the type Trump was said to have had, triumphant on the White House balcony).
      
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      October 9, 2021 10:11am
  - Charmaine Hawke
    
    I had been in the leave Judith there camp until this week, now she has to go and go quickly. I have no idea who takes over and quite frankly I do not care as my phone is off the hook to them forever.
    Taking away my ability to feed my family because I have chosen to wait till the longitudinal studies on this still experimental shot come out is my line in the sand.
    
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    October 9, 2021 9:43am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I sent a few strong emails to the National Party telling them to stop the MP’s spamming me. Also unsubscribed from membership. Had enough of woke shit
      
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      October 9, 2021 2:53pm
    - sharont
      
      My thoughts too. Denying people the right to go to supermarkets was the end for me for National and no going back.
      
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      October 10, 2021 2:56am
- KevO'Brien
  
  These vaccines are so tainted with Big Pharma promotion the opinions from both sides are equally valuable. They weren’t properly tested before release so we the guinea pigs cannot know the outcomes. It may be another 6 months before their real nature is evident.
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:31am
  - rouppe
    
    I’ve had mine for approaching 6 months now.
    
    Nothing to report
    
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    October 9, 2021 9:26am
    - raven
      
      Glad you don’t have side effects, but others seem to. It’s being actively promoted to pregnant females too – not a good idea IMHO.
      
      As it’s been 6 months for you, your immunity will be well down – guess you’ll need a booster shot before you can enjoy any freedoms they may offer to the vaccinated.
      
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      October 9, 2021 11:00am
      - rouppe
        
        Don’t know whether the immunity is anything. Last thing I read said that I might be at greater risk of contracting it (than after say 2 months), but still effective at keeping me out of hospital which is really all I care about.
        
        As far as I’m concerned, I’m vaccinated, give me that certificate and let me travel unrestricted.
        
        The mask thing is going to be the bigger nuisance. I can see supermarkets requiring it for the foreseeable future which is irritating
        
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        October 9, 2021 3:04pm
      - sooty
        
        Have you asked when you can expect your booster shot?
        
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        October 9, 2021 9:58pm
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      Most vaccine trials last up to 10 years though. We are only 1 year into this vaccine trial, and you are a participant. See you in the 203os, hopefully.
      
      (You should be able to watch this clip of Fauci saying exactly this in 2019, without having Telegram):
      
      https://t.me/redicetv/1603
      
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      October 9, 2021 12:07pm
    - sharont
      
      Long term effects from minor blood clotting are the thing to be worried about – affecting lungs.
      
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      October 10, 2021 2:58am
  - PhilBest
    
    Their brief trial was done in mid summer, and was clueless about dose of aerosols correlating with severity of infection. It is like testing a bullet proof vest on troops based in the US and Europe but not at the front in Afghanistan.
    
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    October 9, 2021 9:39am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    BUT, they were ‘approved’ which means nothing. One Janet Woodcock approved Pfizer. She also approved fentanyl.
    Paid off muppet
    
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    October 9, 2021 3:17pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I don’t think our politicians yet understand that vaccination will not be our golden ticket to freedom.
  
  National needs to distance themselves from Jacinda’s message/promise and start informing the public that, even if vaccinated, folks need to be careful when in crowded or enclosed situations.
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:39am
  - PhilBest
    
    YES! Someone else has got it!!
    
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    October 9, 2021 9:40am
- Justitia
  
  “Give Us Hope, Jacinda”, the song for our times now surging up the charts amid the beginning of the popular resistance. Listen and share widely: https://youtu.be/VxKY6WGaL54
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:43am
- kowtow
  
  Yep , seeing Bishop promoting vaxxing children on the box last night was , to put it mildly , infuriating.
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:50am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Back to using children as a lever to fit the narrative
    
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    October 9, 2021 3:19pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  However Benedict its been a good week for those of us on the Right.
  
  Cindys desperate efforts to get the Special People to get vaccinated drawing attention to them as yet again being the problem for the rest of us.
  
  Chippy’s failed attempt to deny it was a Gangster who escaped to Northland plunging that region back into L3.
  
  These are adding to the tipping point that is when the Raelene’s ( My name for the 20 to 55 yo wimmin who are enthralled with Cindy) wake up and realise Cindy and Labour are keeping them locked up due to their failed policies and their pandering to the Special People and Gangsters.
  
  When that happens Cindy and Labours support will plummet.
  
  I suspect it will be when SoMo takes off all restrictions in Oz ( not far away) and the Raelene’s see their Aussie rellies and friends free while they are still locked up.
  
  IMHO this is no longer a medical problem for Cindy and Labour it is a political problem around their survival and we know Cindy and Labour will do anything and everything to retain power.
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:58am
  - James Stephenson
    
    My understanding is that it was gang members that took the virus South into Waikato but that the Northland case was, shall we say, a “lady of negotiable affection”.
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:34am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    So it was a Mongrel Mob hooker who caused the problem. She wouldnt tell Police where she had been so they got a warrant but she escaped from the Marae and is now back in Auckland being hidden by the Mob.
    
    IMHO time to round up all the Gangs and their associates and ship them to the Auckland Islands. hopefully they will fight each other to the death and save hard working taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars. They wont live by our rules so let them make their own rule in their own space.
    
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    October 9, 2021 11:19am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I think there is much more. 3 hookers and 2 male dealers, but that is just what I heard from a friend that knows someone in TV/RNZ, who got a text from an unknown contact who lives in a caravan down by the river.
      The media know dam well, but $110M keeps them silent
      
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      October 9, 2021 3:23pm
- Chris Scott
  
  Benedict Yu
  
  That makes no sense. As the virus gets going, many of the people who were vaccinated early in the programme are going to get infected. They will be highly contagious and infect the unvaccinated.
  
  There is no point in punishing the unvaccinated if large numbers of the vaccinated spread the virus just as effectively.
  
  Oh rubbish and you know it. Firstly vaccinated people are very likely to get a booster. Secondly vaccinated people are far less likely to be hospitalized even as the effectiveness of the vaccine declines. (according to Lancet: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/04/pfizer-covid-vaccine-protection-against-infection-tumbles-to-47percent-study-confirms.html)
  
  Just get vaccinated if you value your freedom to live unencumbered by the restrictions imposed by an overbearing government.
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:10am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    What was the rubbish I said??
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:31am
    - Chris Scott
      
      Benedict Yu
      What was the rubbish I said??
      
      A facile, disingenuous form of rhetoric that many are fond of is to critique a dynamic scenario as if it were static. It’s okay for a school debate but has no real substance.
      
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      October 9, 2021 10:41am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Yes, yes, I agree you are indulging in that Chris, but what was it that Benedict said that you claim is “rubbish”?
        
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        October 9, 2021 10:53am
      - RockyJ
        
        “Very likely to get a booster”. Really? It has been a long time since any of our leaders have mentioned boosters. By December it will have been six months since I had my second jab and the received wisdom is that my protection will be declining my then.
        No one is talking availability of booster. Wanna bet we will be “head of the queue for boosters like we were for the first shots?
        
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        October 9, 2021 12:02pm
  - Cinematic
    
    It’s not rubbish. Vaccinated people can become infected and transmit the virus.
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:32am
  - kowtow
    
    ‘Just get vaccinated if you value your freedom to live unencumbered by the restrictions imposed by an overbearing government.’
    
    Put another way .
    
    If you want to be free , do wot the gubbermint tells you.
    
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    October 9, 2021 11:33am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Or else!
      
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      October 9, 2021 3:31pm
  - burt
    
    Far less likely to be hospitalised… hmmm.
    https://vermontdailychronicle.com/2021/09/30/76-of-september-covid-19-deaths-are-vaxxed-breakthroughs/amp/
    
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    October 9, 2021 1:52pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      You do need to look deeper at such numbers, they do in fact tend to confirm what people here (like Benedict) have been saying.
      
      First, Vermont claims an 88% vaccination rate, presumably amongst adults, so a 76% death rate is below that and so right there, the vaccinated seem to have a degree of protection. Caveat, the numbers are small so the result is probably not statistically significant on its own.
      
      Second, Vermont did start by vaccinating the oldest first, and the most vulnerable. As we know (generally accepted, no ?) the vaccine effectiveness tends to wane over time, so those people, absent a booster, are probably a bit more likely to have reduced immunity. Plus they are the most vulnerable, with the unvaccinated probably heavily weighted towards younger and healthier people.
      
      So although it sort of sounds bad, that result is probably in line with current expectations. Being vaccinated is, for the older and more vulnerable age groups, protective to a degree, but not by any stretch, absolute protection. And that the protection reduces over time.
      
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      October 9, 2021 3:49pm
  - Sacha
    
    Talking about ‘antibody waning’.
    An enlightening & educational lecture.
    The Pfizer Dilemma
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z7Tr0pHVNA
    
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    October 9, 2021 6:22pm
  - sharont
    
    Not what the UK Governments figures for England say for the period from February to September three times more deaths of the vaccinated. More cases among the unvaxxed but more hospitalisations among the vaxxed.
    
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    October 10, 2021 3:00am
    - sharont
      
      See table 5, pages 19 & 20, between Feb and Sept there were 2,542 total deaths, of which 1,820 (1,613 with two jabs) were vaxxed and 722 were unvaccinated. Total cases 593, 572 of which 336,215 were vaxxed and 257,357 were not vaxxed.
      https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1018547/Technical_Briefing_23_21_09_16.pdf
      
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      October 10, 2021 3:26am
- Simon
  
  Bishop eh? He walks among us.
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:15am
- Ra Henare
  
  What? greater freedoms to those who have been vaccinated?
  
  Yep you continue to deny fully Vaccinated Kiwis coming from a LOWER case load than Auckland (Think Perth for one) to return home to self isolate?
  Even tho they have been tested twice
  Once before boarding and secondly on arrival
  
  Am I the only one who sees the stupidity in this double standard?
  
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  October 9, 2021 11:20am
- Show me the evidence
  
  I think you’ll find it starts declining from its peak at 2 weeks post 2nd jab, and has declined significantly after 6 months. I thought the Israeli data of 37% efficacy (for infection) was after 6 months. I can’t remember the exact % but even after 4 months the protection (for infection) wasn’t great. This is why Israel (after starting vaxing in mid December and fully vaxing most older adults by start April) was already seeing a new wave at the start of July.
  
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  October 9, 2021 11:39am
  - burt
    
    And now their “Green Pass” expires 6 months after their last vaccination.
    
    Lifetime subscription service.
    
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    October 9, 2021 1:54pm
Vory v zakone

“It is my expectation that Julian Assange will be free and reunited with his family before Christmas.”
– Kim Dotcom

“When all is finally exposed, 98% of Washington will fall.”
– Julian Assange
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October 9, 2021 8:00am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Only the top 2% will carry on. Cool story, bro.
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:43am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Jeffery Epstein did not kill him self but maybe Assange will.
  
  We will never know . . .
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:17am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Well, the CIA had a scheme to kidnap and assassinate him while he was in the Ecuadorean embassy.
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:55am
    - sooty
      
      They missed!
      
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      October 9, 2021 10:04pm
mikenmildagain

Today we could celebrate the feast of Saint Denis, patron saint of France and one of the most famous of the amusing cephalophores. According to legend, the bishop of Paris was martyred some time in the third century CE. The decapitated bishop picked up his head and walked several miles while preaching a sermon on repentance.
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October 9, 2021 8:00am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Was that legend from the leprechauns?
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:25am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I don’t know anything about leprechauns. Perhaps you could enlighten me.
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:16am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      You’ll be lucky to see them. Best try a Labour Party do.
      
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      October 9, 2021 6:26pm
Man Among the Ruins

Feel like a good laugh at the Covid Tyranny’s expense? This is a YouTuber named “Aussie Cossack.” I’ve stumbled across him in the last couple of days. The guy is brilliant. Long story short, the NSW Police have been harassing him, pulling him over and searching his vehicle constantly with no legitimate cause for suspicion. Apparently, in addition to his social media presence, he has an order out against him for, as I understand it, posing with an AK-47 in a photo taken in Russia (his family emigrated from Russia at some point, but Aussie Cossack – aka Simeon – is an archetypal Aussie larrikin). This order is the pretext the cops cite.

He has a large YT following and posts his frequent Police interractions on line, very effectively highlighting the stupidity of both the Covid Police State measures, as well as the tools whose task it is to enforce them. He is very funny, charismatic, knows the rules and his rights, and you can tell he gets right under the cops’ skin. Another very good clip is a similar incident at a Bunnings, when some idiot customer called Crime Stoppers due to his not wearing a mask. Most clips are about 20 mins long. Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ-QxyVCzbU
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October 9, 2021 8:06am
- PhilBest
  
  I love it when he is live-streaming and one or more of his supporters turn up to harrass the cops, having seen the events unfolding on their device screen and realizing it is somewhere near where they are
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:42am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The woke Police are wondering why the public are getting pissed off with them
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:57am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    What about the slept police?
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:18am
westernScientest

Yesterday David made a very important post titled “Govt plans to confiscate private testing labs!!!” If you havnt read it go and read it. But it got me thinking, I dont think the law change has anything to do with Rako, although no doubt it will be used for all sorts of dubious things.

Just a thought, but was it so that they can confiscate and nationalise private hospitals? When it comes to it, that would be the easiest way to expand the number of hospital beds, is simply to steel them. It also has the added bonus of making people with health insurance, who are already subsidising the heathcare of everyone who doesn’t, much worse off.
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October 9, 2021 8:07am
- westernScientest
  
  Actually I think I have my answer to that, the amendment appears to only be for ‘testing’. So maybe it was directed at Rako, which is very petty.
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:29am
- kowtow
  
  The Nats were shocking for their attack on private property rights re tobacco advertising etc .
  
  All in the name of health ……… see any similarities to wot’s happening now ?
  
  The Nats and labour ,two sides of the same very debased coin.
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:53am
  - Chris Scott
    
    kowtow
    The Nats were shocking for their attack on private property rights re tobacco advertising etc .
    
    If cannabis were to be legalized (ignoring the argument that its criminalization is an infringement of property rights) would it be okay to advertise hash cookies outside a school?
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:21am
    - kowtow
      
      I’ll see your silly question and raise you ;
      
      Is it OK to use experimental “vaccines” on children in order to “free” us from govt imposed restrictions on a once free society.
      
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      October 9, 2021 11:37am
      - sooty
        
        Kiwi Labs. CEO Philip Stoner Twyford.
        Yep that’ll work.
        
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        October 9, 2021 10:09pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  This has been signalled by the recent Covid Amendment Bill where they claimed the right to take property and pay afterwards. A small extension and the whole of NZ’s private assets could be filched by these amateur commies.
  Mahuta is hard at work too on behalf of her ilk.
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:31am
  - Nickc2
    
    They’ve already used Covid-19-D borrowed/printed money for non-Covid related things so what’s to prevent them from using their Covid confiscation legislation to confiscate other non-related Businesses/Intellectual Property/Stuff in General?
    Keep in mind, the Biden Administration is about to instruct the US IRS to track all Bank Transactions in excess of $600.00.
    https://www.masslive.com/news/2021/10/biden-administration-proposing-plan-to-track-bank-transactions-of-600-or-more-to-fill-tax-gap.html
    Geez, in NZ you’d be hard-pressed to fill up your car next week for less than $600.00 and we’re an extremely low wage economy.
    
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    October 9, 2021 1:05pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Greta can go to Hell.
https://dailypoliticalnewswire.com/big-oof-new-zealand-restaurant-gives-greta-the-finger-go-to-hell/
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October 9, 2021 8:07am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  It’s unclear whether Greta is more insane than her mindless acolytes. It’s a close contest.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rhIHxfTCgQ&t=2s
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:23am
  - PhilBest
    
    She’s a classic young victim of having been brought up in a cult.
    
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    October 9, 2021 9:43am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Blah blah blah. And Jaspinda goes waffle waffle waffle
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:01am
- lifesgood
  
  But it is actually an invitation for her to visit their outlets so not as good as it sounds. In my opinion she can really go to hell.
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:30am
fernglas

Pfizer in the US is now pressing for children from 5-11 to be vaccinated. The same has been suggested for New Zealand. The justification is that children may suffer severe illness or die from Covid.

Since the onset of the virus, the number of children who have died from Covid in the USA is about 645. https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/05/health/us-coronavirus-tuesday/index.html

Between March 2020 and February 2021 25 children under 18 died of Covid in the UK.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57766717

To put this in perspective, the US population is about 330 million. Annualised, the number of Covid deaths amongst children is roughly 400, so one child has died of Covid per million people. The UK population is 67 million, so roughly one child died per 3 million people.

Based on those figures, it would seem that New Zealand might have around 2-5 children under 18 die of the virus. Each year in New Zealand, nine children die as a result of family violence. http://www.areyouok.org.nz/family-violence/statistics/. About 100 altogether die from unintentional injury. The point is that the risk to children of death from Covid is negligible, but the consequences of vaccination are as yet unproven

Those who choose not to be vaccinated have that right, but at the same time, I would expect them to be protesting loudly against children being experimented upon because they have chosen to do so.
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October 9, 2021 8:07am
- Stu2
  
  It isn’t about preventing them from dying, rather reducing the chance of them becoming infected and then transmitting
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:50am
  - Cinematic
    
    Which the jab doesn’t do.
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:34am
  - bronny1
    
    Everyone, regardless of vax status will be catching and passing on the virus except for the first few months post vax!
    
    Stop spreading misinformation!
    
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    October 9, 2021 11:24am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yeah I thought like that only a couple of months back. But looking at the vaccine efficacy what does it matter? We are all going to get infected. I’m not that keen on vaccinating children to prevent unvaccinated adults from ending up in hospital.
    
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    October 9, 2021 1:16pm
    - fernglas
      
      That’s the immorality of it. The vaccine is still unproven, but children are being expected to have it, when there is little chance of them becoming ill, let alone dying, to protect adults who are refusing the vaccine for whatever reason. While I respect the right of an adult to refuse the vaccine, I consider it obscene for them to allow children to be vaccinated in their stead.
      
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      October 9, 2021 7:41pm
- Aquataur
  
  I looked more closely at the UK stats and a study done by folk from 2 universities.
  
  half of the 25 under 18 who died had significant comorbidities, including some who were already on assisted breathing devices. We are left with 12 deaths amongst a population of around 13m people in that age cohort – a rate of about 1 per million. This is less than the expected death rate from the vaccine !
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:59am
- Cinematic
  
  This is a cynical attempt by Pfizer to add billions of global revenue. If the medical fraternity can’t see it for what it is it’ll be a case of follow the money.
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:06am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  It’s highly likely that the 1 in several hundred thousand death rate for kids is almost all in those that have a major health issue – just as for adults. For unafflicted it is probably more like 1 in a million, for which use of a novel vaccination with unknown long term risks seems like a very poor risk/reward.
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:14am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Pfizer is also pushing for booster shots for everyone. The justification seems weak.
  
  Pfizer is also doing a large scale clinical trial in infants 6 months to 4 years. So expect them to be next.
  
  I don’t know where New Zealand will go. The government moved quickly to make vaccine available to 12 year olds so it is likely they will open it up to 5 year olds as soon as it is approved.
  
  The other thing the government could do is just add covid vaccines to the childhood immunisation schedule. Most kids will be vaccinated without the parents knowing.
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:16am
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    Will the covid vaccine be added to next year’s flu shot? Seems likely.
    
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    October 9, 2021 9:25am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    a large scale clinical trial in infants 6 months to 4 years
    Where are they getting them from?
    
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    October 9, 2021 9:34am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Volunteers. Well the parents not the kids. They were way over subscribed. Parents registered their kids online.
      
      https://nortonchildrens.com/plan-your-visit/covidtrial/
      
      IIRC they had many more volunteers than they needed. Parents were falling over themselves to volunteer their toddlers for the trial.
      
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      October 9, 2021 1:12pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    BY interesting to see that Israel chose Moderna for booster shots there.
    
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    October 9, 2021 9:50am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    “Most kids will be vaccinated without the parents knowing.” Speculation, but likely, given the ideology of these psychopaths. First, there is no medical justification whatsoever supporting vaccinating kids that young, unless they have leukemia or the like. Second, the idea of the state giving a child any medical treatment without parental consent is horrific, extremely sinister and should be a crime.
    
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    October 9, 2021 9:52am
- bythesea
  
  apparently childhood obesity being a major risk factor as obesity inhibits immunology.
  so if you were going to vaccinate children, targeting at risk individuals might be more pragmatic. that was the uk jvci position
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:26am
  - ByGolly
    
    And the same for adults.
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:21am
- Chris Scott
  
  fernglas
  Pfizer in the US is now pressing for children from 5-11 to be vaccinated.
  
  It’s a complicated equation to balance, not simple arithmetic. The vaccine has proven very safe, by the same token children have proven to be resilient against the disease (notwithstanding phenomena such as ‘long covid’) but they’re very efficient spreaders as well. Pfizer claim it’s safe for young children in a smaller dose and I have no reason to distrust that particular claim.
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:32am
  - Ed Snack
    
    I think, given the data we have and Pfizer’s previous record of complete dishonesty that we have every reason to doubt the claim.
    
    The vaccine is not that safe for children, not given the very small benefit it offers. Or would you rather see a few dead children just to make your point ?
    
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    October 9, 2021 11:05am
  - Show me the evidence
    
    Pfizer also claim their vax is 95% efficacious at preventing infection after 2 months and 91% after 6 months. That has been proven in real world studies (Israel, Quatar, UK and US) to be way overstated (i.e. load of crap). I’m not sure their clinical studies have panned out to be entirely accurate in the real world. The myocarditis/periocarditis wasn’t even picked up during the main clinical trial but in the post marketing phase by self reporting participants. Read the journal papers pertaining to their results and you’ll see,
    
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    October 9, 2021 11:52am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Medical reviews in many countries have already seen decision against vaccinating kids made. And sweden and denmark have recently also halted vaccinating young adults due to risks.
    
    Nobody knows if there are any negative health impacts that might show up only over long term, subtle effects may only come to light years later through large scale statistical analyses.
    
    The precautionary principle suggests that vaccinating kids is a bad policy given known and unknowable risks balanced only by a miniscule benefit. “First, do no harm”. and lumping vaccination risk on kids to reduce danger to more vulnerable adults is unethical.
    
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    October 9, 2021 12:06pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Sweden and Denmark have stopped using the Moderna vaccine specifically. Not sure if that is their primary vaccine or not. UK has stopped all young people (with exceptions for specially vulnerable I believe) and they use all the current mRNA vaccines.
      
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      October 9, 2021 3:42pm
- Ed Snack
  
  You need to factor in that some children have fatal diseases and conditions like cancer. Those make them far more vulnerable (just like for adults) to Covid. The UK did the exercise and determined how many children WITHOUT such a confounding condition died of Covid. The answer appeared to be 0. The US has not done a similar check, but the answer is probably the same.
  
  Children under 16 or so, if healthy, appear to have essentially a zero risk of death from Covid. Children in the same group have a small but definite risk of dying from the vaccine.
  
  To advocate giving children a treatment that increases their risk of dying is totally immoral and unethical.
  
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  October 9, 2021 11:01am
- Tom Hunter
  
  Was having an over-the-fence discussion yesterday about this with a neighbour (aged mid-50’s) and I gave him this quote:
  
  “Thinking that everyone must be vaccinated is as scientifically flawed as thinking that nobody should. COVID vaccines are important for older high-risk people, and their care-takers. Those with prior natural infection do not need it. Nor children.”
  
  His response was to ask what fucking nutter said that? Fringe website I’d read? Anti-vaxxer?
  
  I told him that it was a Tweet and that Twitter had deleted it and blocked the guy’s account, to which he responded that was good as the last thing we needed was more mis-information from people like that.
  
  Then I told him who it was, paraphrasing the following as best I could in a conversation:
  
  Dr. Martin Kulldorff is a professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School and a biostatistician and epidemiologist at the Brigham and Women’s Hospital. He helped develop the CDC’s current system for monitoring potential vaccine risks.
  …
  A Harvard Medical School colleague specializing in drug and vaccine safety research, Jeffrey Brown, said that Kulldorff is a “world-class” vaccine safety “superstar,” “His qualifications are spectacular,…He’s an international expert in vaccine safety. No one on earth would question whether he’s qualified. … He’s a pioneer.”
  
  He said he hadn’t seen or read that. 🙂
  
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  October 9, 2021 11:11am
westernScientest

Does anyone else get the feeling when certain male journalists write about cindy, only one hand is on the keyboard.
It starts off trying to be critical, but explodes into a full on love letter

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/126618134/covid-for-christmas-the-jibe-that-could-come-back-to-haunt-labour
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October 9, 2021 8:10am
- kowtow
  
  Straight to the comments!
  
  That’s where the truth resides.
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:57am
  - westernScientest
    
    The heavily censored stuff truth anyway
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:31am
  - Thought Criminal
    
    Jacindelivery is getting hammered in the comments. Pity the sentiments in the comments don’t bear any resemblance to the polls.
    
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    October 9, 2021 11:27am
    - kowtow
      
      Makes one wonder about those polls .
      
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      October 9, 2021 11:38am
- Cinematic
  
  Haha was reasonable reading until that paragraph. Poor old Luke has fallen hard.
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:07am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  They do change hands sometimes …..
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:02am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

One of the greatest problems with socialists is they will not recognise that their philosophy could be in error. It’s always someone else fault when it eventually goes tits up. Look at the maggots that infest the UN, they have all the grand plans, all the answers and yet fail to acknowledge that it’s been tried before with totally disastrous results. The real fault with elite socialists is the belief they have a right to tell others how to live their lives when usually the ones doing all the telling are living high on the hog and live lives of privilege and opulence, I have no time for the fuckers.
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October 9, 2021 8:10am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I guess you must be fortunate to have no errors in your philosophy.
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:29am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    As, it appears, neither do you.
    
    Here’s a hint Mike; even the Queen’s poo smells . . .
    
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    October 9, 2021 9:23am
  - rouppe
    
    Having errors in one’s philosophy is different from recognising when one has errors in one’s philosophy.
    
    I’ve long believed that the evangelist hard left like Jacinda is proving to be are so convinced of their own righteousness that they can’t even conceive that they might be wrong.
    
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    October 9, 2021 9:58am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I did not write that Mike, and you know it. You stupid boy
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:03am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Sure, I was being sarcastic. Perhaps you could outline the tenets of your philosophy, and what others would describe as its weaknesses, should there be any.
      
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      October 9, 2021 10:21am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Life involves trade offs, for every single person. Only some philosophies mainly involve trading off other people’s rights.
    
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    October 9, 2021 11:07am
I remember when

I see Chris mentions ‘a smoker’ among the vulnerable.
Haven’t seen any science on that lately, or they still suggesting smokers may be protected.
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October 9, 2021 8:13am
I remember when

Paediatricians say Covid risk ‘low’ as daycares reopen: Pre-schoolers back in class:
In NSW amid their Delta out-break a report showed an infected child has a 1.8% chance of passing the virus on to another child in an ECE setting.
An infected adult with covid has a transmission risk of 8.1% of infecting a child in ECE, according to this report.
However, the risk of adult to adult transmission in an ECE is up to 17%.
The NSW report found 98% of infected children experienced mild or no symptoms.
Improving ventilation is “paramount”, such as ensuring activities are outside and windows and doors open wherever possible.
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October 9, 2021 8:22am
- Vory v zakone
  
  If pre-2020, your child’s pediatrician had said,
  “Listen…there’s a brand new type of vaccine and it decreases your child’s risk from a new flu with 99.9972% survival rate by .0027%… We also have zero data on the long-term side effects and not much on the short-term either, other than somewhat rare cases of bloodclots, permanent heart damage and death.”
  
  What’s your reply?
  
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  October 9, 2021 5:29pm
Pongo

Its Saturday I am in East Christchurch and there are just 9 slots available today within a 10km radius for a vaccine shot.
Within that area is Burwood Hospital, the large Palms shopping mall, a Bunnings supa centre, a New World shopping precinct and not a single vaccine site at these crowded areas.
Its a bloody disgrace
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October 9, 2021 8:24am
- kowtow
  
  So’s the visit by the Waikato twice over lockdown evading persons with vaginas rugby team.
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:59am
- doggone7
  
  Fortunately over a period most everyone in the district has already vaccinated and there’s no panic rush. And those driving to the mall from outside the immediate vicinity can get theirs in their local area.
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:22am
  - Pongo
    
    There is a rush as its only a matter of time before the purveyors of meth make it across the strait and Jacinda locks us down further.
    The vaccination rates in East Christchurch are awful and a different approach is needed to capture people who are less self motivated.
    A lot of working people dont have the time or energy during the week so why not expand weekend availability.
    
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    October 9, 2021 11:32am
gorse

Can anyone explain to me why antibody test kits are banned here?
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October 9, 2021 8:25am
- Dairy Flat
  
  Probably because the results from tests would be inconvenient to the narrative. Tbey would show that a great many people who showed no or minor WuFlu symptoms actually have been infected in the past.
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:45am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  No idea now.
  https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/media-releases/covid-19-point-care-test-kits
  
  Medsafe decided in April2020 that the kits weren’t of decent quality
  
  In particular, Medsafe has concerns about both the quality of testing from many of these kits and the likely impact of misinterpreted results.
  
  Notification was published in the New Zealand Gazette that prohibits the importation, manufacture, packing, sale, supply, or use of COVID-19 point of care test kits that have not been otherwise authorised by Medsafe.
  
  I’m tempted to think it’s just because our Government has no idea how to manage this outbreak in a rational manner.
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:00am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    In between the lines: Banned unless they gain approval – so the Govt just does not approve them, therefore the fear porn can continues
    
    26 2
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    October 9, 2021 9:11am
  - fernglas
    
    It’s a social control thing. We can’t have those people with antibodies getting uppity about it; next thing they’ll be demanding that those without antibodies are excluded from social events, churches and shopping malls. Oh, hang on a minute….
    
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    October 9, 2021 9:14am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Sounds fair to me. Goose gander and all that shit
      
      6 2
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      October 9, 2021 10:56am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Positive antibody results will spoil Jaspinda’s fear porn control plan
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:08am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Want to see Jaspinda dancing on the head of a pin? ask her that question, coz the media sure as fuck won’t ask
  
  38 1
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  October 9, 2021 9:13am
  - kowtow
    
    She’s no angel.
    
    6 0
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    October 9, 2021 10:19am
- KevO'Brien
  
  They would have to be setup for this virus which has been conditioned to show on the 40X mPCR scale. That test can show anything fed to it.
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:38am
Southern Raider

Not the kind of virus you expect to catch from a prostitute
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October 9, 2021 8:26am
- oldfella
  
  Hey, SR, Cindy keeps telling us Covid 19 is a tricky virus.
  So if you can catch it from anyone or anything, and you ate one of Cindy’s uncooked bbq bangers yesterday, you might want to get tested. Just in case.
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:56am
- mikenmildagain
  
  So what virus have you caught?
  
  1 7
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  October 9, 2021 10:22am
- Ed Snack
  
  Well, face to face contact over an extended period maybe could transmit something, and inside under poor ventilation ? Sounds pretty likely to me.
  
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  October 9, 2021 11:10am
slightlyrighty

A friend has heard from someone high up in the Northland DHB about the people involved in the case of Covid in Northland.

If it ever comes out how this happened, Labour is going to have some egg on it’s face. Rumours are already out about the identity of the Covid Case, that it is a Sex Worker with Gang Connections, But Labour will not confirm any details. Burying this in a Friday Evening Presser is the standard MO when the Government knows that the information, if fully known, will not reflect well on them.

I believe that the Sex Worker crossed the boundary in the company of a High Ranking Mob Boss well known to Labour, as they have defended him in the very recent past, using questionable documents.
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October 9, 2021 8:26am
- Tomtoddy
  
  I am hearing the same story, Slightly. Hipkins claims the reason for her trip was “unknown”. Apparently kept some of the local gang guys happy for an hour or so in Whangarei before disappearing further north to a marae.
  
  Police were refused access apparently. She got taken back to Auckland somehow and disappeared again. MSM wont follow up in case of embarrassment for their paymaster.
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:50am
  - kowtow
    
    Compare and contrast this to the full on Media storm re the so called runaway Wanaka couple.
    
    28 2
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    October 9, 2021 9:01am
    - EssenX
      
      Judith needs her balls back. She is seen as strong on law and order. Bring that to the fore. Gang members hooning around on motorcycles at funerals? OK, Mob, we’re confiscating your bikes and crushing them. It’s ridiculous the Government is policing the public, most of whom are following the rules in good faith whether they agree with them or not, and the Government let’s gangs do whatever they want at tremendous economic and personal cost to the public. National needs to get back to its roots: freedom, personal responsibility and deal with the gangs in the way the Victoria Police deals people in hi vis vests.
      
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      October 9, 2021 10:46am
      - artemisia
        
        1. Never interrupt the enemy …
        2. Keep that powder dry.
        
        4 0
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        October 9, 2021 2:44pm
  - doggone7
    
    Early on Benedict Yu said the government should treat us like adults. The two who invaded and shut down Northland, them too?
    
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    October 9, 2021 9:30am
  - TP4Shore
    
    Can we start to hypothesise that the Mongrel Mob now owns Labour? This is starting to get ridiculous.
    
    Who is pulling the strings?
    
    13 0
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    October 9, 2021 9:42am
    - sooty
      
      Why is the Mongrel mob the favored gang of choice?
      
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      October 9, 2021 10:24pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Winston Peters has claimed it was a sex worker travelling with Mob leader Harry Tam. https://twitter.com/Anna_bw/status/1446576101698912256
    
    Expect labour their team of $55million to circle the wagons on this if true.
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:03am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Would this explain why the govt has gone into total witless protection (cancelled yesterday’s 1pm lectern of lies)?
      
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      October 9, 2021 10:30am
      - Bridgenag
        
        No it is the weekend and the spin doctors writing the answers are at the beach
        
        6 0
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        October 9, 2021 1:50pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Mods; Tam is denying this, so probably worth deleting.
      
      5 1
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      October 9, 2021 12:42pm
  - oldfella
    
    @tomtoddy
    I though Hone’s Heroes were keeping the north safe with their barricades? How did the sex workers get past them? 😉
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:13am
    - sooty
      
      Couple of minutes down time and have a pleasent trip!
      
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      October 9, 2021 10:26pm
- kowtow
  
  Impossible , Tim Barnet’s Prozzie Reform Bill , turned that whole “industry” as promised, into all things good , sweetness and light .
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:21am
- DeepBlue
  
  Winston Peters came out with this on RNZ today. Saying Govn have known for 5 days. This now has legs in MSM.
  
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  October 9, 2021 12:32pm
  - Bridgenag
    
    Not in the weekend….. The spin guys are fishing
    
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    October 9, 2021 2:02pm
I remember when

Off for a trip into the land of unfinished motorways.
Transmission Gully, wherever to Otaki, Otaki to Levin and, of course, the Manwatu Gorge By-Pass has been started.
Is there anywhere in New Zealand where you can travel with so much promise for the future.
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October 9, 2021 8:27am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Patience, grasshopper.
  
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  October 9, 2021 3:54pm
Yvette

Gap between first and second vaccine doses –
… on Thursday, the Ministry of Health changed the gap between doses again, this time returning to the original three-week gap, in what it described as a push to get people fully vaccinated quickly, as COVID-19 spreads beyond Auckland.

Until May, the UK had imposed a 12-week gap between doses, in order to prioritise first doses for as many people as possible with limited vaccine supplies, the same way the gap was extended in New Zealand in August to allow more people to get the jab.

1 – So it seems the first change here in New Zealand (3 weeks to 6) was to also allow more people to get a first vaccine dose, and the change back (6 weeks to a now re-recommended 3) is to try and get both more their first shot, and those with one shot already to have their second to be fully vaccinated.

… But in July, researchers in the UK found that an eight-week gap seemed to be the sweet spot for tackling the more transmissible Delta variant.
The researchers found that extending the time between the first and second doses of the Pfizer vaccine boosted antibodies against all variants of the virus tested compared to a short dosing interval.

2 – So, in this Government’s dramatic exercise, to get as many vaccinated a possible, this Government is not really telling you, that delaying the second dose to 8 or, as some sources recommend 12 weeks, after the first dose can increase the efficacy of the vaccination by 3.5 times.
So the Government maybe rightly prioritises general benefit, over individual good, including the susceptible elderly or those with underlying conditions – the most vulnerable.

The changing advice comes at a time when the Government is trying to convince vaccine hesitant people to trust their guidance. But Director of Public Health Dr Caroline McElnay says it should not cause alarm.

3 – But does it not “cause alarm”, when you find the Podium of Truth is only telling you half the truth, and by omission preventing people from making a balanced, fact-based decision about their lives – including those most vulnerable?

All quotes above from –
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/three-weeks-or-six-covid-19-minister-chris-hipkins-ministry-of-health-explain-changing-advice-on-time-between-vaccine-doses.html
_____________________________
other references on the optimum gap –
In May, researchers at the University of Birmingham found that delaying the second Pfizer dose to 12 weeks after the first resulted in a 3.5 times greater antibody response in older people. The increase is likely even greater in a younger cohort.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/marty-makary/94315

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/nz-urged-consider-longer-gap-between-each-pfizer-jab
https://www.pharmatimes.com/news/researchers_find_extending_the_time_between_pfizer_doses_boosts_antibodies_1373633
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/spacing-pfizer-covid-shots-boosts-antibody-levels-after-initial-drop-study-2021-07-22/
Eight-week gap seen as sweet spot for Pfizer jab antibodies
• a three-week schedule generated fewer of the neutralising antibodies that can bind the virus and stop it infecting cells than a 10-week interval
• the longer schedule led to fewer T-cells overall but a higher proportion of a specific type or subset, called helper T-cells, which according to the researchers, supports immune memory
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57929953
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October 9, 2021 8:29am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I have been asked to get another 3 weeks after my first. Sounds fishy
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:16am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Wait 8 weeks is my advice
    
    22 0
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    October 9, 2021 9:19am
    - rouppe
      
      Mine was 3 back in April.
      
      Must have pretty much worn off by now
      
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      October 9, 2021 10:02am
  - kevn
    
    @SteveO… Maybe they are into the Spanish short-dated jabs and need them used up?
    
    13 1
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    October 9, 2021 9:34am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I may cancel and go in 6 – 8 weeks. I forgot about that shit from Spain.
      At the end of the day the transparent Govt are not to be trusted, far too many lies – or not telling the whole truth
      
      8 1
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      October 9, 2021 12:04pm
      - Dairy Flat
        
        I got my second last week. They booked me in for 3 weeks after #1 but I re-booked it for 8 weeks. Nurse’s comment was “good move, that’s about ideal”. No adverse effects this time but was a bit seedy in week 2 after the first. For what it’s worth.
        
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        October 9, 2021 12:29pm
  - Paulus
    
    Fishy probably because the recent urgent purchases are running out of time shortly. so push to use them urgently by changing the time frame or they will have to be chucked away.
    
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    October 9, 2021 11:19am
    - sooty
      
      But still paid for.
      
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      October 9, 2021 10:28pm
- Akarak
  
  Yvette, your post reflects the same information given to us when we received our first vaccination. We will not be changing our booking (eight weeks) just to make Jacinda happy.
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:09am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Downticking trolls are awake early today
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October 9, 2021 8:33am
- mikenmildagain
  
  It’s already nearly 9 o’clock, Steve. Time to be out and about.
  
  6 17
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  October 9, 2021 8:45am
- MCos
  
  You’re a sensitive little petal
  
  11 11
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  October 9, 2021 8:52am
  - dcrane
    
    Chip on your shoulder?
    
    3 3
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    October 9, 2021 10:09am
- lifesgood
  
  They must get paid double time for weekends.
  
  11 5
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  October 9, 2021 9:36am
  - sooty
    
    Cindy had fraser house wake them specially!
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:29pm
artemisia

Auckland tenant ordered to pay landlord $8k after abusive partner smashed up home

Sad story for sure.

Women’s Refuge chief executive Dr Ang Jury said it’s completely unfair. It is the law though and she didn’t mention who should pay if not the person legally responsible.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/300423964/auckland-tenant-ordered-to-pay-landlord-8k-after-abusive-partner-smashed-up-home
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October 9, 2021 8:40am
- Southern Raider
  
  Yes sad story but why should the landlord be held responsible for the costs. She was the one who chose the thug as a partner and she was the one on the lease
  
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  October 9, 2021 12:49pm
Maggy Wassilieff

As pandemic restrictions ease, other respiratory viruses are returning in unexpected ways.

Why easing COVID restrictions could prompt a fierce flu rebound

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02558-8

We are fortunate that our current outbreak is getting away over summer… but winter may bring some very nasty surprises.
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October 9, 2021 8:43am
- kowtow
  
  Yesterday’s front page UK Daily Telegraph headline was ” Flu Deaths may reach 60000 say experts”
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:04am
- Cinematic
  
  Not could. Will. It’s already happened here and worse is to come.
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:11am
- krazykiwi
  
  Yes. The futile suppression attempts might hold off until Autumn. Then Ardern will wield the immoral L4 weapon, crushing more NZers. She is a self-aggrandising Tyrant.
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:34am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

World Leader got it wrong on Covid??
https://newshourfirst.com/2021/10/07/world-leader-admits-zero-covid-strategy-failed/?
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October 9, 2021 8:45am
- Stu2
  
  This right wing journo doesn’t mention that elimination was broken by a very right wing force – the gangs
  
  I’m not denying it was doomed
  
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  October 9, 2021 8:56am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Which right wing gangs would those be? The ones where every member votes Labour – those right wing gangs?
    
    17 2
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    October 9, 2021 10:25am
    - Stu2
      
      The ones with a utterly capitalist business model backed up with thuggery.
      I’m talking what they do here not, who they vote for
      
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      October 9, 2021 11:08am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Right wing gangs? You mean the ones that tell their members to vote Labour, then get a gift of $3.75M?
    You seem to be confused – maybe a typo?
    
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    October 9, 2021 11:01am
  - kowtow
    
    Oh dear .
    
    Wot makes them “right wing ”
    
    They certainly don’t believe in the fundamentals of conservative philosophy like freedom , respect for the individual or property rights .
    
    4 1
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    October 9, 2021 11:42am
    - C-Town
      
      Well, they do believe in their own freedom, individuality and property, less so other’s. The Gangs vote for the party that will further their businesses and currently that party is Labour.
      
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      October 9, 2021 3:20pm
- Yvette
  
  Steve Otto – a couple of excerpts from your link, to perhaps encourage a few more to read it –
  
  World Leader Admits ‘Zero COVID’ Strategy Failed
  New Zealand has finally given up on its insane zero Covid policy. The country has been one of the least impacted by the pandemic, which has only experienced 27 deaths in total. Now the government has apparently decided that a zero Covid goal is unreasonable, with Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern admitting that the government will begin to transition to a policy which focuses on minimizing the virus, rather than eliminating it entirely.
  
  … Like neighboring Australia, the policy has seemed absurd at times, with major cities grinding to a halt in response to single cases of Covid.virus, rather than eliminating it entirely.
  Now Prime Minister Ardern has announced that the country intends to change its priorities and prioritize living with the virus, rather than eliminating it entirely.
  Despite admitting that the lockdowns have not allowed New Zealand to reach its goal, Ardern refused to describe the zero Covid policy as a mistake.
  
  The rest of the world will likely be watching New Zealand with interest as it transitions to its new policy of living with the virus and mitigating its spread, rather than fully eliminating it.
  
  This article makes it more plain that Ardern is transitioning from her zero covid goal to focusing on minimizing the virus, rather than eliminating it entirely – a move which is not all that apparent from last weeks utter confusion.
  Put that confusion down to some ineptness, or see it as a brilliant smoke screen?
  
  Coming from a country which has seen so little direct damage from Covid, this announcement may inspire other nations to abandon their own zero Covid plans.
  Name one … so this stand alone positive point is about nil
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:22am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Transitioning = moving the goalposts, or resetting.
    So not a mistake? Clever, that’s what a comms degree does for you
    
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    October 9, 2021 11:04am
MCos

Headline from Melbourne’s Herald Sun

“Australia’s border madness makes us like North Korea

Australia’s border closures — at the hands of egomaniac politicians — are making us prisoners, like North Koreans. And the madness has just become very personal for Steve Price.”

Apparently that old border madness is a side effect of covid-19 down this way.
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October 9, 2021 8:46am
- mikenmildagain
  
  It’s really only a matter of time before the Australians start firing missiles into the Tasman Sea to intimidate New Zealanders.
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:25am
Maggy Wassilieff

Seems there are still some journalists willing to challenge their governments’ behaviours.

Nobel Peace Prize: Journalists Maria Ressa and Dmitry Muratov share award
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-58841973
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October 9, 2021 8:47am
- mikenmildagain
  
  A very good award of the prize.
  
  Mr Muratov dedicated his prize to reporters at Novaya Gazeta who had been killed because of their work. The award came a day after the 15th anniversary of the killing of Anna Politkovskaya – one of the paper’s top investigative reporters and vocal critic of Russia’s war in Chechnya, who was shot in a lift in her block of flats.
  “I can’t take all the credit. This is thanks to Novaya Gazeta and those who died while defending people’s right to freedom of speech,” he told Russian news agency Tass.
  
  We are very lucky to live in an open society.
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:27am
- Ed Snack
  
  Hardly, they are left wingers making a living complaining about minor repression’s. Not exactly stunning and brave except in the fevered imaginations of the lefties.
  
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  October 9, 2021 11:18am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  If only we had some of those here.
  
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  October 9, 2021 3:56pm
Frank the tank

Northland – welcome to Sobibor. Vaccines will set you free.
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October 9, 2021 8:51am
Stu2

Wonder what the R value is now
Ain’t below one
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October 9, 2021 8:52am
- oldfella
  
  @stu2
  The R value will now be used to describe the degree to which Cindy’s try-hards have rooted the country.
  And a couple of wandering Auckland sex workers have apparently rooted the north.
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:18am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Who cares, unless you’re a closet epidemiologist in their gaming room.
  
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  October 9, 2021 11:24am
cas

Apologies if someone has already posted this but I heard Jamie Mckay on the Country early this am refer to our wok Commissioner of Police as Cuddles Coster. I laughed so much I nearly fell out of bed.
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October 9, 2021 8:54am
- mikenmildagain
  
  The ‘wok’ commissioner could fall out of the frying pan and into the fire…
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:32am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Fauci, the bureaucratic liar.
https://civildeadline.com/it-was-planned-video-emerges-of-dr-fauci-and-hhs-officials-plotting-for-novel-virus-from-china-to-enforce-universal-vaccinations-video/
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October 9, 2021 9:02am
Thought Criminal

Government departments and programs always or usually has an English and a Maori name these days.

Does Three Waters have a Maori name? If not, why not?
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October 9, 2021 9:04am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Let’s invent one, ‘waitoru’
  
  8 1
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  October 9, 2021 9:06am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    torukarapu
    
    6 1
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    October 9, 2021 9:43am
    - oldfella
      
      Talking of invented Maori names, anyone know where Karr-arr-pee-ro is? Heard about on TV1 news the other night and still can’t figure it out.
      
      4 0
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      October 9, 2021 10:03am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        It a large lake area around Cambridge.
        
        1 0
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        October 9, 2021 6:28pm
    - oldfella
      
      @Kev. How about ‘Tuhinga o mua’. Seems to translate to ‘pissed about’, which is a good description for what Mahuta’s doing to us.
      
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      October 9, 2021 10:05am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    My invention was close.
    https://waitorufarm.co.nz/
    
    7 1
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    October 9, 2021 10:09am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      It was indeed.
      
      4 1
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      October 9, 2021 11:13am
- kowtow
  
  Toru wees.
  
  8 1
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  October 9, 2021 9:14am
  - oldfella
    
    @kowtow. Toru Weesandpoos?
    
    4 0
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    October 9, 2021 10:08am
- Nickc2
  
  KOHA eh bro!
  
  5 0
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  October 9, 2021 10:02am
- dcrane
  
  What’s Te Reo for “Waters of the Neoracist Hermit Kingdom”?
  
  4 0
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  October 9, 2021 10:06am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  tino tahae wai kaikiri
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:25am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Te Taura Whiri o Te Reo Maori (the Maori Language Commission) has as one of its briefs the creation of appropriate Maori words for business & technical terms etc, similar to the role of the Academie Francais has for French.
  
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  October 9, 2021 4:00pm
Dairy Flat

Wasn’t Dear Leader supposedly in the running for some Peace Prize or another? Haven’t seen much reporting locally about that strangely; could it have been awarded elsewhere per chance (snigger)?
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October 9, 2021 9:04am
- KevO'Brien
  
  She makes pieces.
  
  6 2
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  October 9, 2021 11:15am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Dan Crenshaw rips Dorsey a new arsehole.

https://theinformedamerican.net/dan-crenshaw-has-just-taken-twitters-ceo-and-ripped-him-a-new-one/
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October 9, 2021 9:05am
70andstilllearning

Lol – Hone’s boys and gals at it already. Guess the mules didn’t fit their profiling.

https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-35.4365398,174.0851016,6905m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1
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October 9, 2021 9:11am
- Frank the tank
  
  Don’t blame them this time. Northland has been ‘Tammed’. Can’t see them holding the Northland and Whangarei seats after this hot mess
  
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  October 9, 2021 11:02am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    May not even hold Te Tai Tokorau – back to Johny M 🙂
    
    4 0
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    October 9, 2021 2:37pm
  - doggone7
    
    Some low life fuckwits travel to Northland so the logical thing is to vote for someone else. Yeah that’s logical.
    
    3 2
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    October 9, 2021 4:15pm
dime

Herald headline:

PM fought Delta – Delta seems to have won.

Interesting. Jacinda fought covid..

I thought we had a team of 5 million?

I thought I played a part. My net profit dropped 400k last year and is on track to be similar this year. Pretty big sacrifice.

Remind me what sacrifice Jacinda has actually made?

Apart from taking the easy option – lock down. Print and spend money. Give virtually nothing to business, because fuck them.

Retain her 500 stacks a year, plus free mansion, private jet and other benes.

I would suggest I’ve paid a far bigger price than Jacinda. As have my brothers.

But yeah, Jacinda fought covid.. By nesting and going home to be safe. Some real heroic shit right there.

what’s the story about the two animals during summer?

one works hard to prep for the winter (does the hard yards, expands our hospitals, builds MIQ facilities, gets prepped for the next wave)

vs

The sack of crap who lounges around and comes unstuck when winter hits.

Guess which one Jacinda is.

But no, Jacinda is a goddam hero! Just ask any journalist on her payroll
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October 9, 2021 9:13am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I agree.
  
  She is the laziest and least able Prime Minister, I’ve seen.
  
  She’s not on top of any issues and has created a back-log of problems for a future leader.
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:26am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    But Maggy – from Luke this morning.
    
    “She is many things: inspiring, calculated, and ruthless without seeming to be – like any good political leader. She has undoubtedly provided decisive leadership, and has gained international plaudits. But she likes to be liked, and can be defensive and prone to passive aggression when under sustained criticism.
    
    Although a genuinely empathetic and caring person, she is also highly rational, and gets right down into the policy weeds on issues she is interested in –………”
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/126618134/covid-for-christmas-the-jibe-that-could-come-back-to-haunt-labour
    
    Can see the sheep(le) out in the paddock nodding their heads!
    
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    October 9, 2021 11:21am
    - Taieri
      
      she is also highly rational, and gets right down into the policy weeds on issues she is interested in
      ———————-
      
      A bit of a shame really that the range of such issues is so narrow…
      
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      October 9, 2021 12:13pm
  - kowtow
    
    And for the working taxpayer , savers , elderly and others on fixed incomes.
    
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    October 9, 2021 11:45am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    I think ‘lazy’ is a bit harsh. She seems to keep busy. ‘Ineffectual’ is a better descriptor, in my view.
    
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    October 9, 2021 4:02pm
- Cinematic
  
  Beautifully put. And don’t forget that she’s been ably supported by a bunch of taxpayer funded health zealots.
  
  We’ve been paying these people to rob us of our freedoms and make dumb decision after dumb decision.
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:40am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I don’t think there is a ‘team of 5 million’ anymore. Many sent Jaspinda an email asking to unsubscribe
  
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  October 9, 2021 11:09am
  - kowtow
    
    We never were , it was a cheap , cruddy catch phrase like all the rest from this regime.
    
    Be kind etc
    
    Spin for the thicko swing voter and meat for her Media Pardy.
    
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    October 9, 2021 11:47am
Fletch

Question: how do we know these people crossing the borders with the virus are real? We hear things about a random truck driver, then a random unidentified female, and then areas of the country get closed down. How do we know it isn’t a push to get more sections of the country vaccinated?

I am probably just being cynical. But I wonder when it is the South Island’s turn.
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October 9, 2021 9:16am
- oldfella
  
  Fletch, do they even have sex workers in the South Island?
  I thought all the farmers were too busy keeping this country afloat? /s
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:22am
- Liberal Cliche
  
  Given the diabolicalness of the whole last 2 years not even the most hardened conspiracy theory denier can rule anything out.
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:57am
  - sooty
    
    As soon as the mongrel mob can get some working girls across.
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:37pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Seems some NZ academics are upset that their “cultural understandings” were not considered by the scientists who have just published a paper linking ancient ash deposits on the Antarctic Peninsula with burning of NZ forests by early Maori settlers.

Hemispheric black carbon increase after the 13th-century Māori arrival in New Zealand
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03858-9

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/453171/researchers-link-700-year-old-soot-found-in-antarctica-to-fires-set-by-early-maori

“It relies on measurements, modelling and silo thinking and the paper whether intentional or not, posits Māori as the ‘naughty’ offenders.

“Moreover, it reeks of scientific arrogance with its implicit assumption that somehow Māori have a lot to account for in terms of contributing to carbon emissions and destroying the pristine environment of the Southern Oceans and Antarctica.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/scientists-find-record-of-early-maori-land-burning-in-antarctic-ice/OFW7WNKDLPGVPLDIDEN4I2F33Q/
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October 9, 2021 9:19am
- artemisia
  
  Sounds like hurt feelings and no counter data.
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:26am
- Gravelroad
  
  Maybe the “academics” didn’t think that Maori in the 13th century had access to matches.
  So they couldn’t have done it, could they.
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:43am
- Yvette
  
  Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It’s not easy being green – Kermit the Frog
  In a short period after Mäori arrival massive fires, thought to be anthropogenic in origin, are witnessed in almost every pollen diagram in New Zealand. It is thought that human firing caused the reduction of the original forest cover of New Zealand from around 80 percent to somewhere nearer 15 percent (Ogden, Basher and McGlone 1998). The rapid nature of vegetation changes attributed to firing “might suggest either that Mäori were indifferent to the substantial loss of forest, or perhaps… they had no control over the impact of an increased incidence of ignition” (Anderson 2002a: 30). A growing corpus of evidence suggests that shortly after Mäori arrival in New Zealand, the vegetation of southern New Zealand underwent a significant transformation from a mosaic of shrub-, grass-, fern-lands and forest to a largely grassed expanse as a result of human firing.
  http://www.jps.auckland.ac.nz/docs/Volume118/Volume%20118%20No%202/5%20Maori%20fire.pdf
  
  Is this factor in climate change, as well as featuring in ancient ash deposits on the Antarctic Peninsula, even reflected in Maori myth? –
  Later, fearing that Matau [a giant taniwha, who kidnapped a chief’s daughter who was rescued] would return to cause more trouble, Matakauri went back to the mountains where the monster lived. He found the giant sleeping, lulled by the warm wind, and he set a great fire around him. The hot wind caused the flames to roar violently; the taniwha’s body burned so long and so hot that a trough hundreds of metres deep and 75 kilometres long was created.
  
  After Matakauri left, the rains came and filled the newly formed valley with water, which is now known as Wakatipu, the trough of the giant. Although the giant has been dead for many long years, his heartbeat can still be seen in the steady rise and fall of the beautiful lake that is his resting place.
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:48am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Yes, Yvette, everywhere on Earth that has been reached by humans suffered massive environmental change. It is estimated that about half of the original forest cover was destroyed within about 200 years of first settlement. At least half of what remained was logged or burnt in the century from 1820. The Polynesian settlers exterminated about a quarter of the native bird species. I don’t recall the figure for the number of species exterminated since European settlement.
    And of course, the pace of environmental destruction is still increasing, incurring an heavier heavier ecological debt for the future generations.
    
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    October 9, 2021 6:25pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  “…acting dean of the Faculty of Māori and Indigenous Studies…”
  
  Academic? If you say so…
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:49am
- softail 1450
  
  M W, Get with the program Maggy I’ve seen irrefutable scientific proof that it was a Maori king that was the “shooter on the grassy knoll”and also got to the green cheese before Neil Armstrong , truly, really, no B/S.
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:51am
- Benedict Yu
  
  That’s funny. They sure did a number on the moa. I guess that’s what happens when you are always at war. No incentive to cooperate.
  
  Guess who looks after the environment? Wealthy countries. If you are struggling for survival and your neighbours are trying to enslave or eat you, conservation is down on the list of priorities.
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:59am
  - rouppe
    
    And by extension the Haast eagle whose primary source of food was the moa
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:07am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    .
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:49am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Not only the Moa.
    
    Most of the forests of eastern NZ (NI, SI) and central Otago:
    
    New Zealand was the last habitable place on Earth to be inhabited by people. When the Māori arrived, forest cover was approximately 85 percent. Today, it’s about 25 percent, and research suggests these forests were lost or eroded within a few decades of human habitation.
    
    As far back as seven hundred years ago, it seems the Māori were systematically burning native forests, which had little experience of fire and succumbed easily to the new force.
    https://www.sciencealert.com/pre-industrial-human-activity-had-a-bigger-impact-on-the-planet-than-we-thought
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:52am
    - Russ the Muss
      
      And why wouldn’t u, they had to keep warm in this cold place with no electricity. They were doing the right thing based on the time. These academics have more brains than sense. Its just a historical fact. This obsession with spin and framing every past deed by modern standards is not just foolhardy but divisive for those easily lead.
      
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      October 9, 2021 11:46am
      - rouppe
        
        Well Maori have been throwing stones for decades, it’s about time they realised they’re in a glass house
        
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        October 9, 2021 3:08pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    It’s ironic that the Greens ally themselves with the hard left, when in fact it’s the Communist countries that have the worst environmental track record. Exhibit A: the Aral Sea. Exhibit B; Lake Maracaibo.
    
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    October 9, 2021 4:07pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    New Zealand, which is a wealthy country is not looking after its environment.
    
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    October 9, 2021 6:50pm
    - Jack5
      
      A wealthy country? Not so sure.
      
      NZ is ranked about fortieth in the world rated by GDP per capita.
      
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      October 9, 2021 10:49pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  General reckoning is that SI Maori amounted to a couple of thousand max, and over a couple of generations they wiped out almost all forest cover in the SI via fire as they moved about consuming rapidly vanishing Moa.
  
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  October 9, 2021 11:26am
I remember when

Is there a deeper story about the Northland case.
Obviously illegal activity and the automatic guess has to be drugs but some interesting delays.
It is to be expected that they would not want to mention names, but the follow-up seems to be rather less insistent than has been normal.
Were they under some sort of police surveillance.
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October 9, 2021 9:35am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Yes they only identify who hasn’t been playing by the rules when it’s a KFC worker who actually has played by the rules. No comeback, no apology.
  
  Gang molls though, they get a free pass when it comes to identifying. Seymour’s onto it though.
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:22am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  They sure drove around quite a bit…if you consider how often they stopped at petrol stations.
  
  Now that’s probably understandable if you have quite a few drug deliveries to do…
  but if they were just providing relief for folks suffering sexual emergencies, then the poor girls are probably hooked into some sex-slave business.
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:38am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Looks like they are sex-workers
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300426709/covid19-search-for-contact-of-northland-case-continues-over-fears-she-too-has-virus
    Funny how Minister Hipkins wasn’t briefed on this last night in time for his 6:30pm Lockdown announcement.. for it must have been bleeding obvious to the authorities since Tuesday.
    
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    October 9, 2021 11:05am
    - sooty
      
      Gotta eat ya know!
      They certainly ate a lot of servo pies or traveled far!
      
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      October 9, 2021 10:41pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Need to stop at the petrol station for a pie. Always blow on the pie
    
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    October 9, 2021 11:14am
- James Stephenson
  
  My initial guess was drug distribution too but I understand, via a friend who has a friend who is a cop, that the Northland case is a touring prostitute who has only told them the petrol stations visited not the clients’ identities.
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:41am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Peters names gang member on TV3.
  
  “Former Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters has appeared on national television this morning to allege the woman at the centre of Northland’s snap move to level 3 is connected to the Mongrel Mob.
  
  The claims, along with other allegations about the woman, have been widely circulated on social media but have not been confirmed by officials or the Government. Peters told Newshub Nation he was absolutely certain of his sources.”
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-northland-into-level-3-warning-cases-could-spiral-out-of-control-if-auckland-restrictions-ease/WYN42Y2ZHS6H5HOT26JIUILYHU/
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:55am
  - MCos
    
    “Peters said she was absolutely certain of his sources”
    
    Shock Horror
    
    Never heard him say that before.
    
    He makes the ‘sensational’ claim the Mongrel Mob are involved, who deny the allegation.
    Well!
    Knock me down down with a feather.
    
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    October 9, 2021 11:32am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Peters. Cringe. It’s alway about now he dries out long enough to get some media attention.
    
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    October 9, 2021 11:48am
    - Northshoredoc
      
      True, but if his claims have merit in that one or both of the women in question were brought up from Hawkes Bay with Harry Tam Ardern will need to throw someone under the bus quick fast as the media will go into a feeding frenzy.
      
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      October 9, 2021 12:15pm
- Fletch
  
  Yeh. I saw the press conference yesterday, and Hipkins kept on referring to the person as “they”, not he or she. I thought that was quite strange.
  
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  October 9, 2021 11:08am
Apteryx

It was a bad look having vigilante roadblocks during previous lockdowns, and a worse look for the police to tolerate or even support them.

What’s the solution then? Make them legal. An amendment to the Covid response act will add significantly to who comes under the category of ‘enforcement officer’. Guess what? The list includes “nominated representatives of iwi organisations”, along with Maori wardens, Pasifika wardens and “community patrollers”.

These people will have the power to direct you to stop your vehicle, ask you about the purpose of your travel, review your exemption documentation and direct your movement.

It is said that enforcement officers will act under the direction and supervision of the police at all times. But once issued with their ID, who knows what roadblocks will be set up. Tribes will be able to ‘manage’ their 1840 territorial boundaries, real or imagined.

Details here: https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-response-planning/covid-19-public-health-response-amendment-bill-no-2-2021

You wouldn’t know it from that page, but submissions close on Monday 11 October.
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October 9, 2021 9:43am
- Inthe09
  
  Thanks. Have put in a submission for what it’s worth.
  
  This has the potential to back-fire on them hugely. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out there will be violence when one of these vigilante groups trys to stop the wrong person going about their legal right to travel.
  
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  October 9, 2021 1:50pm
- rouppe
  
  Do I read it correctly that there has to be at least one constable at the checkpoint at all times?
  
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  October 9, 2021 3:17pm
WaveyDavey

I see the Wiles pink-thing is bleating on about a video of her in a public place being “an invasion of her privacy”

Whatever she may be smart at it sure ain’t the laws around privacy
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October 9, 2021 9:46am
lifesgood

It’s a sunny Saturday morning with a clear blue sky. I should be all chirpy but I’m feeling quite down. There is only so much you can do around home and I’ve done it. I’ve read umpteen books I’m netflixed out, I’ve painted, tidied, gardened till I’m blue in the face. This lockdown sucks when you live alone. When will it ever end?
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October 9, 2021 9:51am
Benedict Yu

Every time I hear James Shaw speak I have this urge to go buy a V8 Toyota Landcruiser.
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October 9, 2021 9:55am
- kowtow
  
  Every time Shaw speaks he’s exhaling CO2 .
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:01am
- Stu2
  
  Plugin hybrid?
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:17am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Then trick it out. Chip it. 3 inch exhaust system and lose the catalytic converters. Upgrade suspension with a lift kit.
  Then send Shaw a photo, and cc to Greta
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:38am
Inandout

When I get served in a cafe by black mask wearing waiters I do wonder are they left on the toilet cistern when they empty their bowels.
https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/wash-your-disposable-masks-experts-say?mkt_tok=MDM3LU5OUi0zMTcAAAGAAHcg8oPjI3P_B_NqO8URI8M5DxT4OprOIirG_8V3POADbIL4c5jqT1gh2idb-PHoTRJq7fqwUqLJ25bv_iY8CH3on7dS3KVNg_neK1OpmGk
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October 9, 2021 10:10am
JibberJabber

LoLs from the Twitter,
If you’ve ever eaten the little sausages that come in the can of baked beans you don’t get to ask what’s in the vaccine.
?
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October 9, 2021 10:12am
kowtow

We’ve moved into very dangerous territory with this bought and paid for Media Pardy taking on the mantle of getting everyone vaxxed .

It’s now assuming the characteristics of a moral panic , witch hunting public humiliation campaign .

This is the second of these “outing” stories by the so called independent voice of the south Otago Daily Times, the previous was against the city councillor they love to hate and who they’ve been villifying for some time.

‘A member of the Southern District Health Board has passed up the opportunity to declare her support for New Zealand’s vaccination campaign against Covid-19.
However, the stance of everybody else on the board is resounding.’

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/sdhb-member-breaks-ranks

.
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October 9, 2021 10:15am
- IndividualResponsibility
  
  kowtow 10:15am – That was despicable by any journalistic standard – whatever happened to ODT being fair, balanced, and honest? I suspect the ODT sold its soul to the devil when it subscribed to “COVERING CLIMATE”.
  What about their cartoonist YEO demonstrating the same traits?
  
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  October 9, 2021 3:43pm
ecco

There’s no point the government bludgeoning people to get vaccinated through their mainstream media advertising. It’s just a waste of tax payer money. Maybe they don’t care whether it’s money well spent or not and there other motives for that MSM covid advertising spend. Advertising, in particular with Stuffed and the Ferald, springs to mind.

The people who don’t want the jab, for various reasons, have to be reached through targeted means. Not the blunt instrument Ardern is using. Especially those in low socio economic communities, including the gangs. I don’t think the mongrel mob visit the Ferald and Stuffed sites for their news, for eg.

Maybe Facebook would be a better means to communicate with them? It’s hellishly expensive to send people and Shot Bro buses out doorknocking these gangs. Not to mention it sounds downright dangerous work if you ask me.

It’s clear if the government wants to up the vaccine rate they are going to have to grow some balls and make rules excluding non-vaccinated people from participating in certain activities. ie make the vaccine choice infringe on unvaccinated people’s lives. Ardern and co are certainly infringing on many vaccinated people’s lives and livelihoods.

I’m not saying that vaccine passport type rules are right or wrong but holding the country to ransom with unrealistic vaccine targets is a sure fire way to send NZ bankrupt. Untargeted, blanket covid vaccine advertising is not working either.
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October 9, 2021 10:15am
Loddenthinks

Isn’t it interesting how quickly the “science” changes to suit the narrative? When the Clayton’s vaccines were being rolled out, we were told the best interval between shots was 2 weeks. Then we were told 3 weeks, and possibly 5 weeks, and then 6 weeks was optimal.

Now, purely to try and get the numbers up so Nash can win his doomed bet that we’ll reach 90% by Christmas, all of a sudden the optimal time is back to 3 weeks again! My goodness this science stuff doesn’t seem very settled.
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October 9, 2021 10:19am
- kowtow
  
  “Science” gave us this damned thing .
  
  Western funding of a Chinese lab .
  
  ‘A Group Called DRASTIC
  Gilles Demaneuf is a data scientist with the Bank of New Zealand in Auckland. He was diagnosed with Asperger’s Syndrome ten years ago, and believes it gives him a professional advantage. “I’m very good at finding patterns in data, when other people see nothing,” he says.’
  
  https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/the-lab-leak-theory-inside-the-fight-to-uncover-covid-19s-origins
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:26am
- MCos
  
  Seeing as you’re obviously an antivaxer, at least for the purposes of this comment, I wouldn’t have thought you’d be particularly concerned about the interval between dosed.
  
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  October 9, 2021 11:10am
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s like the climate.
  
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  October 9, 2021 11:17am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Anybody who thinks “the science isn’t settled” is a criticism of science and scientists, has no understanding of either.
  
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  October 9, 2021 12:03pm
Maggie Pie

MT ROSKILL IN THE HEADLINES AGAIN!

You will recall last week I posted the dreadful pic of a Mallard being found in a ‘Mt Roskill Playground’ with a crossbow-arrow through it’s breast.

Another day…..another incident 🙁

https://twitter.com/NZStuff/status/1446568851588616192

What IS going on in the hood over there?
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October 9, 2021 10:22am
- Frank the tank
  
  Maggie you should take a drive to Mt Roskill – you’ll find it enlightening to your questions raised.
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:42am
Yvette

Lloyd Burr: The former Prime Minister shook the Beehive to its core. But, why?
Opinion: I haven’t seen a week in politics like this before where the government’s covid response has nearly imploded completely.
John Key putting the boot in on Sunday began the wobbles
The impact was profound – it really knocked the confidence of Ardern’s government and set the agenda for the entire week – ministers seemed lost and confused. Key’s attack even prompted Clarke Gayford to leap to the PM’s defence.
The former Prime Minister shook the Beehive to its core.

… As an MP, he was incredibly charming – yet incredibly calculated.
So what he did this week WOULD have been calculated. He wanted to ruffle feathers – but whose feathers? Ardern? Collins? The whole establishment?

… Nothing stuck to John Key when he was in politics, but his words certainly stuck to everyone in politics this week. And given its success, we’ll be seeing plenty more of it from him.

Bugger, Lloyd, I am still back there trying to figure out why John Key resigned so abruptly …
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October 9, 2021 10:45am
- freemark
  
  A leftie Cindy fan ex squeeze alluded to this in a discussion – as if I was an idiot not knowing why JK resigned. Have I missed something widely known yet never spoken?
  
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  October 9, 2021 9:54pm
ecco

If Ardern wants to do her constituents in South Auckland a favour she needs to address the obesity problems there.

Per the MOH website 63% of the Pacific Islanders in NZ are obese and 48% of Maori . This is higher than the obesity rate in the United States of 36%.

https://www.health.govt.nz/nz-health-statistics/health-statistics-and-data-sets/obesity-statistics

If we look at the obesity world table, New Zealand based Pacific Islanders at 63% obesity, would be coming first on the table, with the top country Nauru on 59%.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/obesity-rates-by-country

This is a ticking time bomb of diabetes and other obesity related problems and has big ramifications in a covid setting and is ultimately everybody’s problem in NZ. Statistics show that obese people are hit much harder with covid and more likely to have comorbidities and end up in ICU if they get covid.

If Ardern really has the interests of these people at heart she should be devoting all her energy to addressing this problem through education of healthier eating habits and lifestyle. She should stop throwing money down the drain, for eg, spending money on the media covid relief fund($55m) and on shelved plans for a cycle bridge ($51m).

I doubt the residents of South Auckland were going to get much benefit from that bridge cycle lane. I do know though that some of the Green Party constituency in the Central Auckland and inner city Auckland suburbs would have loved the cycle lane immensely. For sure.

If Ardern really wants to leave a lasting legacy for her constituents in South Auckland she should focus government spend on improving eating habits and lifestyles of these people. The cost of diabetes drugs, amputations etc is going to be astronomical down the track for NZ if this problem is not addressed. Google the work of the UK doctor, Dr David Unwin, to see what can be achieved.

Perhaps Ardern should look at a sugar tax. This has worked well in the UK.
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October 9, 2021 10:50am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  I was with you all the way, until the last paragraph.
  
  Do not be suggesting that a new tax is the answer to ANYTHING.
  
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  October 9, 2021 4:12pm
Maggie Pie

And thort this was well worth sharing with the group…

My partner’s mum did a bit of research yesterday into the attitude of Muslims towards vaccinations.
She emails –

‘Islamic Verdict on the Covid-19 Vaccine Fatwa’

As mentioned by the Prophet Mohammad (Peace Be Upon Him) medication is a religious issue and concern……
“Make use of medical treatment, for Allah has not made a disease without appointing a remedy for it”
{Sunan Abi Dawud 3855}

I found that very reassuring TBH.
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October 9, 2021 10:51am
Bobba Fret

I’m not sure what happened to the ‘year of delivery’ but it seems like Labour are going to deliver one thing before Christmas and that’s Covid.
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October 9, 2021 11:04am
bythesea

Tony Abbot put the rark up China with his speech in Taiwan!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-08/tony-abbott-calls-china-bully-solidarity-with-taiwan/100525250

among other things he said:
China has “cancelled popular personalities in favor of a cult of the new red emperor.”

bingo
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October 9, 2021 11:05am
doggone7

No names of the two trippers up north yet.

I guess Kawakawa is less sexy than Wanaka.
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October 9, 2021 11:18am
Gravelroad

Re gangs and prostitutes:
I think Jacinda is missing a trick here – and so are the gangs.
Why don’t the gang “leaders” put in a proposition for more government $mm funding to train their prostitute workforce to be Covid 19 vaccinators?
Then when gang members need to travel around the countryside making desperately needed deliveries of one sort and another (and allegedly taking the sex workers with them) they can organise vaccinations for dissenting gang people at the same time.
“Not vaccinated? No prostitute for you.
But, thanks to Jacinda’s taxpayer funded training, we can announce that our sex workers are fully trained in Covid vaccination after which you can go about your usual business.”
Tell me why this wouldn’t work?
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October 9, 2021 11:25am
- kowtow
  
  New govt slogan
  
  BJ for the vax eh?
  
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  October 9, 2021 11:53am
- JibberJabber
  
  Thanks but no thanks, I’d hazard a guess you’d catch something a thousand times worse than covid from a Mob hooker.
  
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  October 9, 2021 12:32pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Slogan: ‘I jab you, you jab me’
  
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  October 9, 2021 4:14pm
Yvette

I have suggested to several people that were the covid pandemic proposed as a movie script just a few years ago, it may not have survived on grounds of credibility, but now Winston provides twists in the plot line that even famed Hollywood script-lecturer Robert McKee would admire …

Gang leader Harry Tam denies Winston Peters’ claims he helped infected woman breach COVID boundary, sparking Northland lockdown

A prominent gang leader is denying accusations he travelled across the Auckland-Northland boundary with a woman who later tested positive for COVID-19.

Northland was plunged into level 3 overnight after the positive case allegedly refused to cooperate fully with health authorities. She’d been in and out of Auckland, apparently using a travel document obtained under false pretences, and police are yet to find another person she was travelling with – reported on Friday to be a woman.

Newshub has received numerous emails from people with similar allegations. Rumours have spread the woman is a sex worker – COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said on Friday night he hadn’t been briefed on her occupation. Peters wouldn’t comment on that either.

Peters, after a long period of relative silence after losing his seat in Parliament last year, told Newshub Nation he’s tired of the “doubletalk, U-turns and spin” from the Government on its COVID-19 response. [the Government he put into power 2017}

“I am absolutely certain of my sources, otherwise I wouldn’t be saying what I’m saying,” said Peters, urging the media to verify the claims with officials.

“Let them deny it, and they won’t. But when the press was told yesterday at 6:30pm by Minister Hipkins that he didn’t, that simply wasn’t true. Frankly, we will never get through this crisis if we aren’t transparent and honest.”
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/gang-leader-harry-tam-denies-winston-peters-claims-he-helped-infected-woman-breach-covid-boundary-sparking-northland-lockdown.html
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October 9, 2021 11:26am
- Colville
  
  Speaking of hookers…
  Ole Winston was also certain that the Chinese had purchased Hooker Lodge too wasn’t he?
  
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  October 9, 2021 2:43pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING ZB….

Jack Tame says he just called Harry Tam to ask him if he was one of those who travelled in the car to Northland as Winston Peters has alleged.

Harry outright denied it…..telling Jack he had consulted his lawyers and been advised to say nothing else.

Where do these guys get the money to consult lawyers on the weekend?
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October 9, 2021 11:44am
- Ruahine
  
  This from Newshub.
  Why would Harry Tam need a lawyer at any time? As for the weekend fees Maggie, Harry Tam was given $2.75 million by ‘our’ Prime Minister.
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/gang-leader-harry-tam-denies-winston-peters-claims-he-helped-infected-woman-breach-covid-boundary-sparking-northland-lockdown.html
  
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  October 9, 2021 11:55am
- Russ the Muss
  
  Good to see our journos have him on speed dial. It’s always important to be fair and balanced and get both sides of the story. Unless it’s an evil right winger, of which the people need protecting from.
  Footnote: I’m not sure whether that is scarcism or not?
  
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  October 9, 2021 11:58am
- Stu2
  
  Wouldn’t it be fun if Winston was wrong, and gets hit with a defamation action
  
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  October 9, 2021 12:15pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  $3.75M does wonders
  
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  October 9, 2021 12:18pm
- Yvette
  
  Maggie Pie – Winston warning
  Winston has, one would think, enough experience of allegations and defamation to be wary of the consequences of either – if you can’t be a brilliant example, be an utterly horrible (near $320,000) warning! – so is it likely when he has said “[She] engaged with people at a hotel in Whangarei … and went to a marae up north which hid her from the public and dare I say it, the police. The police got a warrant to arrest her.” that he is perhaps correct, also saying “I am absolutely certain of my sources, otherwise I wouldn’t be saying what I’m saying,” and urging the media to verify the claims with officials.
  
  I guess in a few days time too we will see what a “marae up north which hid her from the public and dare I say it, the police” has done for community immunity.
  
  Will the Tam remark “Jacinda seems to trust me – why wouldn’t you?”, especially if it precipitates severe illness and several deaths, become as famous as “They are us”?
  
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  October 9, 2021 12:36pm
  - Bridgenag
    
    Winston shafted us all He had better pay back in every way
    
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    October 9, 2021 1:52pm
- Ruawai
  
  Think Winston said she come up from Bay of Plenty with her into Auckland but she went up North with a female friend.
  
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  October 9, 2021 1:18pm
  - Ruawai
    
    Meant to say Winston said she came up from BOP with Tam but he stayed in Auckland and she traveled to Northland on fake docs.
    
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    October 9, 2021 3:42pm
kevn

@Maggie… Money isn’t a problem. Business just goes on.
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October 9, 2021 11:56am
Ed Snack

Interesting factoid, in Canada, New Brunswick is at over 80% vaccinated and has strict mask mandates and social restrictions. Just gone into a “temporary 14 day” lockdown because of of a huge increase in cases.

Benedict’s predictions are looking pretty much on the money…

For reference, Delhi reports around 10-20 cases a day at a rate of 0.06% with the rate staying relatively steady t this very low level. Vaccination rate uncertain but less than 20% fully Vaxxed for certain.

If only we could find out what magic the Indians are using….
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October 9, 2021 11:57am
- fernglas
  
  It’s called natural immunity from previous infection. Also known as herd immunity. Over two thirds of Indians had antibodies back in July.
  
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  October 9, 2021 1:51pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    But that can’t explain why they got there with so little to show for it. There’s considerably more to it than that or the US for example would be at the same stage, as would Italy, Belgium, and many other countries with high case loads in the past.
    
    How would India get there without hundreds of thousands of deaths – possibly millions, given their population.
    
    Either it is purely climatic, hot country with remarkably few people in crowded and non-naturally ventilated spaces (crowded sure, but not that much inside air conditioned and recirculated or), or perhaps those parts with the low case counts did something else, like use a specific comparing as treatment ? Could it be that also, using a known, cheap anti-viral product that was very widely specifically distributed ?
    
    Keep at it Fernglas, the answer is right there in front of you, if you look. No need to invoke highly implausible “it just happened natural like” causes.
    
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    October 9, 2021 3:21pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Oh and more news on the vaccination front. After achieving over 85% of their population vaccinated, Singapore is now undergoing by far its biggest surge in cases ever, up to 2,800 or so, up from well under 100 a month or so ago.
      
      Singapore also has serious masking policies as well, and these are typically very well adhered to.
      
      Just as well that correlation isn’t causation ! Otherwise one might think that having draconian masking policies are utterly ineffective, you know, as the science actually strongly suggests. And that vaccination just means that everyone will eventually get Covid, slower. Though 2,800 is but a tiny slice of Singapore’s population true.
      
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      October 9, 2021 3:26pm
Taieri

From today’s Fountain of Truth:

“(…)Late yesterday, Tai Tokerau Border Control spokesman Hone Harawira confirmed the group had been working with Northland police to stand up a checkpoint at Waiomio – about 30 minutes north of Whangārei before Kawakawa, known as the entrance to the Far North.(…)”

“(…)The alert level 3 boundary is now hard up against the Taranaki border at Mōkau where iwi are working with police to coordinate checkpoints limiting access to the province.(…)”

Does this country still maintain a functioning Government or is it free for all now?
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October 9, 2021 12:05pm
- kevn
  
  @Taieri… Seeing there are more Asian folk than maori in NZ, maybe they could be pressed to man the borders in and out of Auckland?
  
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  October 9, 2021 3:21pm
- kowtow
  
  Don’t be ridiculous , it’s definitely not a free for all.
  
  It’s a free for some . Ahem.
  
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  October 9, 2021 6:57pm
Bluegrass

Under the heading ‘Food for thought’:

1. #Follow the money – Moderna’s founders make their debut on the Forbes top 400 richest people in America list after cashing in on the pandemic with Covid-19 vaccine.

2. #The slippery slope – A hospital system in the US has introduced a controversial new rule making Covid jabs mandatory for organ donors and recipients.
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October 9, 2021 12:12pm
Kiwi Dave

Where do these guys get the money to consult lawyers on the weekend?

Methinks they use GoFundMe.
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October 9, 2021 12:13pm
- Aquataur
  
  Look forward to Harry sung Winston for defamation
  
  100 to 1 it won’t happen
  
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  October 9, 2021 1:14pm
Chuck Bird

A very worthy cause. Please donate.

People say life can change in an instant — for our daughter, Jemima, it was a week…

Jemima went from being a regular teenager on Monday, to having a headache on Tuesday, then vomiting on Wednesday — by the end of the week, she was in hospital, diagnosed with a Stage 4 brain cancer.

Because of the tumours’ location in the brainstem, and growth like a spiderweb (not a solid tumour) the cancer is inoperable and incurable. They don’t know why it happens, but the result is consistently ‘the worst’ for every kid who is unlucky enough to get it.

https://givealittle.co.nz/cause/jemimas-wish
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October 9, 2021 12:42pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Her prognosis sounds terrible, but how does the quarter million raised actually help her? The same amount of money spend on helping 10 at-risk kids with some extra education or other support could be literally life changing with long-term payoff.
  
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  October 9, 2021 1:56pm
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    I totally understand where you are coming from and sympathize with your argument..
    
    I have donated and to answer your question- no, my donation will not help her. She knows that her cancer is terminal and doesn’t ask you to donate to her. She asked people to donate to a cancer researcher trying to help people with this type of cancer who was motivated by his own daughters death due to this type of cancer.
    
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    October 9, 2021 6:30pm
- Gravelroad
  
  @Chuck Bird-
  That’s a devastating blow for your daughter and family.
  I do hope she has had good access to medical treatment and support in these times when so many health resources are being channeled elsewhere.
  
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  October 9, 2021 2:06pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Chuck, my heartfelt prayers and best wishes for you all. What an awful tragedy to be faced with.
  
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  October 9, 2021 2:21pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Thanks for your thoughts and also Gravelroad. However, Jemima is not my daughter. However, I heard her father on the radio this morning. I was very touched by her concern for others at such a time and made a donation.
    
    I hope that you, Gravelroad and others may consider making a donation to this worthy cause.
    
    Kind regards
    Chuck
    
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    October 9, 2021 3:33pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      I normally do not worry about downticks. However, I am trying to raise money for this teenager and fail to see why that should get a downtick. I never intended my original post to sound like it was my own daughter.
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/selfless-wellington-teenager-with-brain-cancer-raises-more-than-200k-for-research/67LI4PBVXKLZ5FW4XPH6MAZNM4/
      
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      October 9, 2021 7:49pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I’m sure you will more careful in future. Kiwibloggers can be quite irritable.
        
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        October 9, 2021 9:11pm
- pragmatist
  
  Chuck I wanted to leave a comment expressing condolences- but I have no words. Being the father of a teenage girl there are no words I can express to portray how devastating this makes me feel for you.
  Perspective in this post. Hug the ones you love and tell them everyday. They are the most important things in our lives and this has made the rest of my concerns today pretty petty in comparison. Only good thoughts and hopeful for some hope your way however that looks.
  
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  October 9, 2021 3:28pm
MCos

A tweet that caught my eye this morning
https://twitter.com/bykenarmstrong/status/1446505198516535297?s=21
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October 9, 2021 12:53pm
- Ed Snack
  
  Certainly sounds totally f****d up MCos, would seem like an ideal thing for certain groups to protest about.
  
  But I guess these are poor black families who just don’t earn a heads up on the political spectrum, for either side.
  
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  October 9, 2021 3:30pm
surfing

Jacinda must be furiously spinning a way out of the current mess.

World leading covid response indeed.

This country is fucked up if they can support this crap.
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October 9, 2021 1:22pm
- MCos
  
  34 more cases today.
  Zero deaths.
  
  When will the horror end.
  
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  October 9, 2021 2:31pm
- doggone7
  
  The country is fucked up if words around “World leading covid response” are taken so seriously as to elicit such a reaction.
  
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  October 9, 2021 2:39pm
Bridgenag

There is a new phenomenon of the lonely people who mindlessly send out and pass on emails complaining about the situation we are in [mostly older folk] They need to be scooped up by their children and grandchildren to participate on great sites like this one. Just sending out to the converted will not cut the mustard . At least here with a new dictionary [ Ferald, chumalists, gummit, Jamititia, Jaspirinda etc they can feel better about some sort of movement away from the dark side.
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October 9, 2021 1:28pm
- Bridgenag
  
  Forgot gubbermint
  
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  October 9, 2021 1:51pm
Maggie Pie

Speculation on twitter Winnie may be mistaken in naming Harry Tam.

More likely to have been Hazza’s twin brother….. Tim.

😀
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October 9, 2021 1:45pm
- Fletch
  
  I was sure that Harry Tam was Chuck’s nemesis from the Buy More where he worked. Turns out it is Harry Tang, but it’s close!
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6Vf-iHcs_A
  
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  October 9, 2021 2:35pm
Southern Raider

So we were promised details of the northland case at the 1pm statement in response to Winston’s comments

Hour later still nothing?
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October 9, 2021 1:45pm
- kevn
  
  @South… ‘She’ knows nothing about the escapee gang connections.
  Let’s see if winnie is on the money or not.
  Trust is gone anyway.
  
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  October 9, 2021 2:38pm
  - doggone7
    
    Trust is gone? Gone? Hang about, this is Winston Peters, THE Winston Peters who people don’t trust. Especially ion forums like this. He says something today and suddenly he is right, anyone who says something different is wrong.
    
    “But Ardern said there was “no evidence” to back up some of the claims that have been circulating online and the government was not withholding any vital information.
    
    “What we do know from video and CCTV footage is that the individual in question was travelling with a woman. We know that for the place in which they were staying for that period of time has also confirmed that they were travelling with a woman. And the person that has been implicated through some of that that social media chat, has themselves confirmed that they were not in the Northland region.
    “My understanding is that police have identified that individual and is working hard to locate them.”
    
    Which I suppose means the woman with the infected one at the Onerahi hotel was Harry Tam in drag
    
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    October 9, 2021 3:32pm
- MCos
  
  That’s because there are no confined detailed except for some petrol station cctv footage.
  A lot of social media chatter, rumours, speculations, from trusted sources.
  
  By the end of the day they’ll be chauffeured in Mob staff cars with security uncles on gold plated hogs provided by the Waikato Kingdoms’ Flying Dragoons.
  
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  October 9, 2021 2:47pm
- Mrs_Right
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-34-new-cases-in-community-jacinda-ardern-addresses-northland-woman-gang-claims/RWEFEC4GGXVHVDQCXPBOOYX7KM/
  
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  October 9, 2021 4:19pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

Molnupiravir useless against moderate covid? https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/merck-drug-less-effective-against-moderate-covid-india-regulatory-source-2021-10-08/
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October 9, 2021 1:50pm
- krazykiwi
  
  This stuff is cytotoxic and the potential for it to lead to cancers will need years of study before the risk can be properly understood. Much better to take VitC, VitD3, Zinc and Quercetin.
  
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  October 9, 2021 2:30pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Bring back Ivermectin – it works. See Uttar Pradesh state in India.
    
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    October 9, 2021 3:06pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Why the downtick, is Batman back ?
      
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      October 9, 2021 3:32pm
Stu2

From MoH
“31 of Friday’s 44 new cases were confirmed to have been infectious in the community”

That’s not good
Suggests resistance to contact tracing

A few weeks back there were not many of these, most cases were already in MIQ
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October 9, 2021 2:05pm
krazykiwi

The lying is over for Pfizer. Despite their statements to the contrary, development of their vaccine did use tissue from aborted fetuses.

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/537011-pfizer-development-aborted-fetal-tissue/
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October 9, 2021 2:26pm
- Steve Todd
  
  “While some may argue that ‘killing a life to save millions’ is fine, many disagree.”
  
  What a disgraceful comment. That was The Big Lie in the article. [German] women are not getting abortions, in order to provide Pfizer with fetal cells.
  
  Robert Bridge should be utterly ashamed of himself for blatantly attempting to manipulate his readers in this way.
  
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  October 9, 2021 3:31pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The report is of “cell lines”. Those could be 50 years old. Some of my oils have been tested on sprague dawley rats. These lines are available as certified, grown to type and available from supply houses on demand.
  
  Creating fetal cell tissue could be very undesirable. Harvesting in an opportunistic appropriate situation may be OK. Cell lines can be grown from small quantities and continuously grown thereafter. Are they then the issue of a human or the product of cell growth in a culture solution?
  
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  October 9, 2021 6:44pm
Fletch

Just as we suspected, the audit results of the 2020 election in Arizona don’t mean much, after authorities in Maricopa County admit to deleting election data from drives before handing it over in response to a subpoena

https://twitter.com/realLizUSA/status/1446157081556488195
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October 9, 2021 2:28pm
- doggone7
  
  Bugger. They’ll have to rely on the counts that were done of the ballot papers. It’s terrible when it gets to that.
  
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  October 9, 2021 3:23pm
  - kowtow
    
    Who filled them in and who posted them . Wasn’t the individual voter but a legion of far left activists.
    
    That’s how it was done.
    
    Without Covid cover millions of left voters would not have voted had it not been for those activists .
    
    all covered in that Time mag article.
    
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    October 9, 2021 7:03pm
    - doggone7
      
      Must’ve been so exciting working in those rooms full of far left activists filling in ballots.
      
      “How many have you done today Liam?”
      “I’m up to 1,827. You?”
      “Yesterday I did 3,208. I reckon I’ll beat that today. Joe will be stoked. We should reach 50,000 by the end of the week.”
      “As long as the team in Georgia get their totals up. 11,780 should do it there.”
      
      A Time article had it that there was a “vast, cross-partisan campaign to protect the election–an extraordinary shadow effort dedicated not to winning the vote but to ensuring it would be free and fair, credible and uncorrupted.”
      
      It’s a real bastard when people set out to to have a free and fair, credible and uncorrupted election and seek to have as many people as possible vote isn’t it?
      
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      October 9, 2021 10:16pm
- Ed Snack
  
  Innocent people ALWAYS delete important data before it can be examined. Standard practice innit?
  
  And when being questioned before the Arizona house, the responsible person said it was in order to free up space on the storage media, the disk drive. Then couldn’t find a sensible answer when asked why data from several previous elections was retained and still accessible, but just not the very latest one, the one in question. Also, logs take up utterly insignificant space unless someone has completely mis configured the system and setup a minuscule system drive for some obscure reason.
  
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  October 9, 2021 3:34pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Just a question: What is the difference between the second vaccine and a booster?
Does it depend if you are talking to a clever person or a fuckwit? Does it mean the Govt tell a ‘half truth’ and get more people vaccinated?
So many things are deceptive lies, not blatant lies, just holding back on the full truth.
I bullshit sometimes, I use satire/sarc sometimes. Most pick it up, BUT if I had a University Degree in Communications you would not know what the fuck is going on ……..
Class dismissed
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October 9, 2021 3:40pm
- Inandout
  
  SO, my jabster nurse told me when I arksed (bro talk) about the booster that they have had no word from the US yet.
  
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  October 9, 2021 6:03pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Help!!!!
Who am I to believe..

our Dear PM who knows nothing..
or our Ex-Deputy PM/Acting PM who knows something?
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October 9, 2021 4:01pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  As always, Maggy, who do you want to believe?
  
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  October 9, 2021 4:06pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Might be the way you operate MMA..
    
    I’m always interested in evidence, data, observations.
    
    I haven’t any particular desire (want) to believe or disbelieve either of them.
    
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    October 9, 2021 5:25pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Good. Just out of interest then, which Labour prime minister do you admire the most?
      
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      October 9, 2021 6:59pm
      - gorse
        
        Not a one.
        
        0 0
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        October 9, 2021 8:50pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Mike Moore
        
        6 0
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        October 9, 2021 9:20pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Ever read any of his books?
        
        0 0
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        October 9, 2021 9:25pm
- Stu2
  
  If you had to buy a used car from one of those two, who would it be?
  
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  October 9, 2021 5:09pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Difficult choice.
  
  It’s hard to believe anyone who is a proven liar. From what I have read and heard, seems that both Jacinda Arden and Winston Peters fit that description.
  
  Pretty normal for a politician.
  
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  October 9, 2021 6:15pm
ABS4EVA

So the Patched Pansies and their WHOREs
are spreading Disease for the Labour Party? I hear.
What a pack of Tragics.
14 2
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October 9, 2021 4:03pm
Yvette

‘No evidence’ Northland case has gang connections, PM says
Speaking to media this afternoon, –The Prime Minister has denied claims that the government is withholding information about the positive Covid-19 case who visited Northland and any possible gang connections they may have.

… Speaking to multiple media outlets today, former Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters claimed the woman had gang connections and travelled through Auckland’s border to the Bay of Islands and back.

But Ardern said there was “no evidence” to back up some of the claims that have been circulating online and the government was not withholding any vital information.
… ”And the person that has been implicated through some of that social media chat, has themselves confirmed that they were not in the Northland region.
“My understanding is that police have identified that individual and is working hard to locate them.”
https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/10/09/no-evidence-northland-case-has-gang-connections-pm-says/
accompanied by a photo of Ardern looking more like Maleficent than usual.

Note the use of the plural pronouns ‘they’ and ‘them’ to disguise ‘him’ who she will not name – another one, but this time associated with Jainda by … um … association.
Also, “police have identified that individual and is working hard to locate them” is just a grammatical and illogical fuck-up.

If “Thirteen doctors are under investigation after complaints about spread of Covid-19 misinformation,” why is the Government not sorting out Winston Peters, particularly for stating the woman “went to a marae up north which hid her from the public and dare I say it, the police. The police got a warrant to arrest her.” Peters wouldn’t reveal the name of the marae, but said the gang member was Tam.

Surely Winston Peters is undermining (if not defaming, or committing blasphemy of) an Ardern Government approved covid essential worker, and should be immediately, for public safety reasons, investigated or his statements confirmed.
9 3
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October 9, 2021 4:03pm
- DeepBlue
  
  New grammar: they/ them are the new she/he, therefore both singular and (old school) plural.
  
  It’s inclusive, as hurty feelings are the priority.
  
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  October 9, 2021 5:34pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Use of ‘they’ or ‘them’ in the singular to avoid specifying the gender of a person is almost always unnecessary, but is an emerging usage. Most sentences can be rephrased if the speaker or writer doesn’t like the usage. Eg, ‘police have identified that individual, who they are working hard to locate’.
  
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  October 9, 2021 7:09pm
  - Jack5
    
    Not so much an emerging usage, as a change being promoted for political reasons. A bit like interspersing English with Maori nouns to signal the speaker or writer is Woke.
    
    A point, Milky. Would a fussy grammarian say: ‘police have identified that individual, whom they are working hard to locate?’
    
    I would use “who,” preferring predominant usage, but in your example it is in the objective case. ?
    
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    October 9, 2021 10:43pm
- ABS4EVA
  
  Always going into BAT for the Mob
  and Scum bags and Low Lifes that is
  AOTEAROA APARTHEID
  
  New Zealand Hard Labour
  
  Work hard for the MOB people that is who
  gets TAX Breaks
  
  The Kumbaya KOHA
  
  O NO not my dearest Buddy ole Pales in the MONGREL MOB
  
  Not my Besties, my darling boys and girls
  
  NO I wonder what other Kumbaya Kohas they are going to get next?
  
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  October 9, 2021 10:14pm
Maggie Pie

Haven’t heard much from ‘Meng-the-Merciless’ for a wee while.

So went searching…… and came across this little gem on the ‘nzhumanrightscommission’ Twitter account. LOL!!

https://twitter.com/David_Cormack/status/1446619914739929088
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October 9, 2021 5:00pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Good one. But what was the link to Meng.
  
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  October 9, 2021 7:02pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Always thought you were quite the wit at one stage, milky.
    Now I realise I was only half right.
    
    17 3
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    October 9, 2021 7:35pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Perhaps I could be a quick-wit. You, OTOH, I’m not sure about.
      
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      October 9, 2021 8:08pm
lazza

Gang covid anthem to ” I fought the law …”

Getin’ vaxxed in the hot sun
I needed a burger cos I had none
I left my Harley and it feels so bad
Guess my race is run
She’s the best monkey hanger I ever had
I fought the virus but the vaxx won
I fought the virus but the vaxx won
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October 9, 2021 8:11pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

There are two types of people in the world: People who think the government is looking out for their best interest and people who think.
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October 10, 2021 4:57pm

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