General Debate 12 October 2021

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Vory v zakone

At no time in history have the people forcing others into compliance been the good guys.

Authority should derive from consent of the governed, not from threat of force.

So is it illegal for Comrade Cindy’s increasingly authoritarian regime to force the vaccine?

(Jacinda Ardern appeared on The AM Show September 20, 2020)

Conspiracy theorists have claimed a COVID-19 vaccine, when available, will be “forced” on everyone – including Kiwis.

The Government has rubbished those claims, made most notably by Jami-Lee Ross and Billy Te Kahika’s Advance NZ.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern went a step further, saying:
“Not only will there be no forced vaccinations, but those who choose to opt-out won’t face any penalties at all.”

Yeah Right
#TuiBillboard
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October 12, 2021 8:00am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Looks like the penalties will be considerable.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:14am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Just another Jaspinda lie
    
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    October 12, 2021 8:18am
    - pdm
      
      Jacinda – doing what comes naturally.
      
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      October 12, 2021 9:32am
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      and people more and more like it and vote for her. So what is the plan here bro?
      
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      October 12, 2021 12:09pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    The penalties will be the exclusion of gangs and others from spreading the virus. I can see why so many on KB are upset about that and pledging support to dear Jamie and Billy.
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:42am
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      A mixture of a stupid comment, which was hard to fathom, and a strawman accusation.
      You can be the new Stephieboy.
      Your comments are inane enough.
      
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      October 12, 2021 12:16pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Jaspinda’s rules and laws do not supercede International Law – read Nuremberg Code. She may well think she overides this, but she is breaching the laws
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:16am
  - PhilBest
    
    Spot the irony: the people committing crimes against humanity according to the judgement of the assembled wise men of the world decades ago, have deemed themselves to be the sole arbiters, what did those wise men in the 1940’s know – and according to the new wisdom, these are not crimes against humanity after all. They would say that, wouldn’t they?
    
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    October 12, 2021 8:25am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Yeah nah, the reality is no one gives a fuck about International Law, Human Rights, codes, etc when it comes to the crunch.
    There is an Agenda to impose, it’s for Your health, FFS!
    
    Do I need to put a /s tag?
    
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    October 12, 2021 8:29am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Yeah put a / tag, for all the Mikes and Karens here
      
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      October 12, 2021 9:00am
    - Vory v zakone
      
      Yeah JJ, the Nazis had a phrase which covered all abuses by the State: “Für Ihre Sicherheit”
      
      “It’s for your safety”
      
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      October 12, 2021 9:26am
      - kowtow
        
        Much older ;
        
        Salus populi maxima lex est .
        
        Problem is who defines what our ‘safety’ is and whether we’re in danger or not.
        
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        October 12, 2021 12:12pm
      - Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes
        
        The irony is not lost given that the Mongrel Mob & Harry Tam are happy to use Nazi phrases and insignia. Labour are quite happy to turn a blind eye.
        
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        October 12, 2021 12:40pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Despite most relevant laws being closely guided by the Nuremberg Code, that code itself isn’t law.
    
    I have no doubt that Ardern and her hapless mob have broken all manner of laws in their bumbling moves to convert New Zealand is a socialist paradise.
    
    There will be tests of this over time, and the first one looks to be Grounded Kiwis who are bringing out the big guns:
    
    Grounded Kiwis take Govt to court
    
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    October 12, 2021 8:37am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      Doomed to fail.
      
      There is nothing to legally limit the power of the government they can make any law they like.
      
      They govern with the consent of the people and the majority still support the far left and the looney left.
      
      We can still vote them out until it is decided that we don’t need to bother with parliament and opposition parties then to loud acclaim and applause our democracy will be gone.
      
      Correct me if I am wrong but we have now twice suspended parliament because it is not an essential service and on the grounds of safety first.
      
      So twice we have given up our right to a functioning democracy for the perception of safety.
      
      Meanwhile another day of lockdown tyranny for me, went for a picnic yesterday, weather not conducive for that today.
      
      Not good for retailers either can’t see people wanting to stand around waiting outside, their face nappies won’t protect them from the weather.
      
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      October 12, 2021 8:56am
      - Bridgenag
        
        Our little town has lots of “essential services” open today Cafes etc….. Someone asked me today “How do you get a small business? Answer ” Have a large business and vote Labour”
        
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        October 12, 2021 12:59pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I believe it has the force of law through our acceptance of it through the UN. Superior Courts in NZ will have to acknowledge it.
      
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      October 12, 2021 9:24am
    - curry4me
      
      krazykiwi: Well done them.
      
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      October 12, 2021 10:48am
  - Romney
    
    New Zealand’s climate change policy violates International Law. Impacting food production is not permitted.
    
    No one cares.
    
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    October 12, 2021 8:44am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Our next govt is going to have to restore the rule of law.
      Once we had Attorney’s General who saw that the Dept of Mickey Mouse Affairs didn’t take over.
      Is the NZ Law Society or its local branches so brow beaten they cannot stand up against the abuse of this govt or is challenging a defunct Attorney General the problem when he can retaliate?
      
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      October 12, 2021 12:33pm
  - Vory v zakone
    
    That was then…
    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/118291756/why-mandatory-vaccination-is-unethical-and-immoral
    
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    October 12, 2021 8:57am
    - Clownworld
      
      Great share Vory v zakone.
      
      Where are the voices now?
      
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      October 12, 2021 5:49pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Steve,
    
    “Jaspinda’s rules and laws do not supercede International Law”
    
    Jaspinda’s rules and laws do not supersede The NZ 1961 Crimes Act either. Her and her cronies are rolling violations of that act.
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:41am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Post WWII trials and executions took place because of medical experimentation on populations without their consent. That outcome was codified and the UN and its member nations adopted it, including NZ.
  Informed consent is required for each instance. (I have even had a doctor trying to get mine, a little late, as I was going under during an operation.)
  
  There is some excuse in an emergency but that is hedged with the requirement of no other choice possible. A blind eye seems to have been turned, existing products banned and new ones promoted with any legal responsibility detached.
  
  Our govt has a duty to know what the situation is. A default in the USA is not reason to break the laws here nor is it a defence under the Nuremberg Convention. As a former criminal investigator the US approvals stink of corruption. What they do with their people is their own business but Cinders is duty bound to use sound judgement and follow the laws of New Zealand. Other antivirals and sound health practices are available for starters at very modest cost. Lockdowns were once reserved for the asylum–or at present, nursing home hospitals.
  
  The issue now of mandating vaccination without consent is a criminal one. Paul Craig Roberts reminds us again:
  https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2021/10/10/the-vaccine-mandate-is-a-hoax/
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:11am
- Simon
  
  If the vaxxs worked then none of this would be necessary. Zero Covid has lost their marbles. You are looking at people whose belief systems have failed and all that is left is for them to keep drinking the kool aid. It will get worse.
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:16am
- Harro104
  
  No one is being forced to have the vaccine.
  
  Just don’t expect to be treated as if you have. You don’t have a god given ‘right’ to work in a hospital, or board a flight, or go to a concert as you are. At a minimum participating in such activities requires: manners; money; and clothes. In addition you now need to have some protection from a virus. Fair enough.
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:17am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The Nuremberg Convention stretches to prevent the weaponising of threats by third parties.
    
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    October 12, 2021 12:36pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      People like Harro104 don’t understand that the principles of the Nuremberg Code and the Declaration of Helsinki functioning as cornerstones of our health system has resulted in their lives being as safe as they are.
      
      They also have no idea that this ‘pandemic’ is on a par with the medium influenza pandemics of 1936, 1957 and 1968, making agitation for vaccination apartheid absurd in the extreme.
      
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      October 12, 2021 1:45pm
      - Harro104
        
        Where is my freedom from having my hard earned tax $ going to pay for the unnecessary hospitalisations of unvaccinated muppets?
        
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        October 12, 2021 2:16pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        *sigh*
        
        Just think about that statement for a moment. Any inconsistencies with any of the 1000s of things the happen in NZ every day?
        
        You’ll no doubt come up with nothing wrong with it, meaning any attempt to school you would be a waste of my time.
        
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        October 12, 2021 3:08pm
      - JibberJabber
        
        LoL, I had a neighbour the other day tell me people who have not had the Jab should have to pay for their own healthcare, while he was smoking a cigarette no less, schooled him hard on the reality of his fuckwittery, probably won’t talk to me until he needs my help again… ?
        
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        October 12, 2021 3:50pm
      - Harro104
        
        *Sigh* back at you: being a citizen is a bundle of rights and responsibilities. You want the right to free healthcare? Take some responsibility to minimise your likelihood of needing it.
        
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        October 12, 2021 4:03pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        What is the view like atop that enormous moral high-horse upon which you sit?
        
        Do you ever drink alcohol, Harro104?
        Do you ever drive a car, Harro104?
        Do you ever cross a road, Harro104?
        Do you engage in any sports, Harro104?
        Do you smoke, vape or toke, Harro104?
        Do you have a perfect BMI, Harro104?
        Do you even exceed the open road speed limit, Harro104?
        Do you always choose low fat, salt, and sugar foods, Harro104?
        
        Of course you do.
        
        Are you ‘failing to take responsibility’ by doing any of these? Of course you’re not.
        
        Life involves risks. And the sensible, rational amongst us recognise that everyone’s risk profiles and tolerances differs. That is part of civil life. Try it. You might enjoy it.
        
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        October 12, 2021 7:01pm
      - Harro104
        
        krazykiwi – by the “sensible and rational among us” do you mean the antivax crowd that seems to have hijacked the GD today?
        
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        October 12, 2021 7:56pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Human rights are not afforded as a result of horse-trading over a willingness to undergo medical procedures.
    
    If you believe so, then you’re living pre-Nuremberg.
    
    I’m sorry if this is inconvenient for you.
    
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    October 12, 2021 1:34pm
- alloytoo
  
  Hard to discern the truth when all concerned are confirmed liars.
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:54am
- Surely Knott
  
  NZers are applauding the decision to fire teachers and med staff who haven’t taken the provisionally approved non-serilising vax and they are happy to exclude from all society all the “selfish c*nts” (term regularly being used on social media) to describe the unvaxxed.
  
  Yet Dazcak and Fauci who funded the lab doing the research that wasn’t legal in their own countries and likely released the virus creating a worldwide pandemic still have their high position jobs and are the top advisors on the subsequent pandemic. . And they haven’t been stood down or put through an investigation process.
  
  I just don’t get it.
  
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  October 12, 2021 10:21am
  - Bridgenag
    
    I am still astonished that a Labour Government would announce no pay rises to the most precious people…..Nurses, teachers, police for 3 years.
    
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    October 12, 2021 1:02pm
  - kiwimike
    
    It’s at times like this, when people are stressed, depressed and broken and then see wrong doers getting away with it, that they might take the law into their own hands.
    and who can blame them.
    I haven’t lost anyone with this pandemic, but others have lost everything.
    
    I am surprised Dazcak and Fauci are still alive in the USA.
    They have guns galore over there and people with skills all over.
    Shows how decent the ordinary Americans are….
    
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    October 12, 2021 1:12pm
- Drone
  
  Currently to have a vaxx is a choice, like smoking, but with all choices there are consequences..
  
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  October 12, 2021 11:46am
  - krazykiwi
    
    How about this: I choose to not have the vax, so that when I recover from Covid (a 99.934% statistical likelihood) there is a 100% chance of me having natural immunity that is between 8x and 20x stronger, and 2x to 3x more lasting that someone like me who gets the Pfizer treatment.
    
    Yes, I’d do this for you.
    
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    October 12, 2021 1:37pm
    - septic skeptic
      
      This is a false dichotomy. KK will tell us all that the vaccine won’t prevent infection when it suits his argument. Therefore vaccinated people will still come into contact with the virus, may get a mild or asymptomatic infection and will get a natural boost to their immunity. Meanwhile they considerably reduce their risk of long covid, hospitalization or death for when they first get infected with covid.
      
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      October 12, 2021 2:17pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        On the contrary. I’ve been pretty consistent in respect of vaccine’s initial and attenuated protection against infection. In terms of that ‘natural boost’, the jury is still out on the extent to which vaccination impacts development of subsequent natural immunity.
        
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        October 12, 2021 4:03pm
      - dave_c_
        
        I’m with Crazy on this one.
        [don’t abuse other posters needlessly – Mod]
        
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        October 12, 2021 4:50pm
Benedict Yu

So now we have a bunch of “experts” calling for indefinite “stamp it out” measures, including border closures, well forever. Or until a “sterilising vaccine” is invented. I think they mean a vaccine that kills transmission, like the MMR vaccine.

They say….

“If Covid-19 becomes endemic, there will not be one or two people sick in a workplace or a home. We will have waves and clusters and multiple local outbreaks. Schools and businesses will close for days, even weeks, because too many people are sick.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300428045/why-we-must-not-allow-covid-to-become-endemic-in-new-zealand

Hello? Why will many people be seriously ill if they are vaccinated? These clowns are saying that severe restrictions should apply indefinitely. Even after every person who wants to be vaccinated has been vaccinated. And after ALL the teachers and health care folk are vaccinated.

And this….

“If Covid-19 becomes endemic, we will live with a stressed, often overwhelmed healthcare system, with schools subject to unpredictable closures…..”

The healthcare system will be overwhelmed? With high levels of vaccination? I guess we are doomed.

And as for schools being closed, COVID is a minor illness in 99.9 percent of primary school aged children. And all the teachers and a majority of the high school aged children will be vaccinated.

If these guys got their way, New Zealand would be a wrecked country cut off from the world. Yes the hospital system will face some stress as some of the unvaccinated folk become seriously ill. But we just need to deal with it.

BTW it is clear that many younger Maori don’t want to be vaccinated. No idea why. But excluding that group, I think vaccination rates will now approach 90 percent. Once people realise they can’t go to events and a majority of restaurants and bars, a number of them will just get vaccinated. The alternative is social isolation for years to come. If you live in a city that is some price to pay.
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October 12, 2021 8:01am
- PhilBest
  
  Yep, I nearly threw up several times when reading that on Stuff and Nonsense.
  
  I sometimes wonder whether these people are so economically illiterate that they really think printing money to pay people to do nothing, and not actually have an economy and society “working” and trading and utilizing resources to create goods and services of value, is a sustainable utopia. This kind of economic illiteracy was already a growing problem, but 2020 seems to have been when it threw off all constraints and went full retard.
  
  Of course the “Great Reset” folks at the World Economic Forum know full well that this is NOT sustainable, and they haf a plan for when the inevitable collapse comes. “You vill not own property, and you vill be happy vith that”. Of course THEY will have more wealth than ever, and power to a degree that they didn’t before.
  
  I sometimes wonder whether these seemingly economic illiterates writing such stuff and nonsense, really are more clever that that, and like Klaus “Dr Evil” Schwab, they can’t bring on the collapse fast enough, assuming that “the solution” is the forever tyranny they want anyway.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:07am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    I think that it is simply a case of the current “environment” giving those who would never be heard of outside of their little silos a platform for self glorification.
    
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    October 12, 2021 8:19am
  - tf78
    
    Phil, if we printed money like they do, we would be sent to prison. What they’re doing is just as criminal.
    
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    October 12, 2021 11:16am
- westernScientest
  
  So now they are concerned about businesses and schools etc. not being able to operate… thats a bit rich given the goings on over the last 18 months…
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:09am
- kowtow
  
  Sweden’s Umea University , study reports that high vax levels does prevent spread to unvaxxed .
  
  Perhaps now the gurnamint and their barking dogs in the media could shut up.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:14am
- rouppe
  
  Ardennes history shows she will hold the rest of the country ransom because of Maori.
  
  The clowns in this story saying that there is a breach of the Treaty by way of the principles of “equity and active protection”.
  
  WTF? There is no provision for anything close to “active protection” and the only reference to equity is that everyone is an equal citizen under the Crown. I not they haven’t named these “Maori health experts” but whoever they are they need to look in the mirror and say “if Maori vaccination rates are poor then I am part of the problem”, rather than blame some imagined and nonexistent racism
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:17am
  - graham
    
    I’m quite pleased, in one way, that they’re claiming the Government’s response is a “breach of the Treaty”. Because the phrase “a breach of the Treaty” is now becoming so common and so widely used, that it’s rapidly becoming like the word “racist”. More and more, people are hearing these words so often that they tend to pay less and less attention.
    
    Just like the boy who cried wolf (does nobody read these fairy-tales any more? Maybe that explains it.) If you holler “Racist!” and “Breach of the Treaty!” and “Unfair to Maori!” constantly, you end up being taken less and less seriously. And finally something comes along that really IS racist or unfair to Maori, noboy will pay any attention.
    
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    October 12, 2021 8:40am
    - alloytoo
      
      The question I have to ask is:
      
      Is it possible for Maori (as a collective) to breach the treaty?
      
      If the answer is yes, then surely the failure of Maori to vaccinate, holding the country hostage would constitute a breach.
      
      If the answer is no, then the treaty lacks validity.
      
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      October 12, 2021 9:58am
      - Man Among the Ruins
        
        FFS. Ardern is the only one holding you hostage, not the unvaccinated. Stop believing the propaganda and start thinking.
        
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        October 12, 2021 11:47am
      - alloytoo
        
        Man Among the Ruins
        
        My question isn’t exclusive to Covid.
        
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        October 12, 2021 12:22pm
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      I am well past that point now, just like I am no longer enthralled by a haka, poi championships, complaints of poverdy from Skyline owning tattooed nike wearing iphone owners . . .
      
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      October 12, 2021 10:12am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    The fact that Maori and especially young Maori are not getting vaccinated is the fault of my Grand Dad and all the other evil White Colonials. If my Grand Dad and the others hadnt come to NZ the Maori would be getting vaccinated.
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:55am
    - Bob
      
      If your Grandad and others hadn’t come to NZ when they did lastmanstanding’. They were eating each other on a regular basis.
      
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      October 12, 2021 3:16pm
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    From the article – ‘The vaccination rates showed Māori did not have the same rights, privileges and protections as the general population, Came said. “I think we’ve prioritised everybody instead of prioritising Māori’
    
    Well, butter my bum and call me a muffin (MP), I never would have thought that!
    
    Who the fuck do these maroi talking heads think they are?
    
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    October 12, 2021 10:10am
  - septic skeptic
    
    My guess is that quite a few Maori health experts are in fact doctors. Doctors who got into med school on the racial quota system but were not capable and got diverted off to some cushy sinecure where they can write papers about racism, colonization and inequality in health outcomes.
    
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    October 12, 2021 10:16am
- Cinematic
  
  These people live in a demented fantasy land.
  
  Newsflash: This is not the first virus humankind has dealt with. It’s not even a particularly bad one.
  
  Basically the entire western world today proves this article is hysterical nonsense.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:23am
  - alloytoo
    
    Basically this is the Climate change debacle compressed into two years.
    
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    October 12, 2021 12:23pm
- dannz
  
  Yes that really is a scare campaign.
  Reading that you’d think that people would get repeat serious infections, just seriously misleading.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:31am
- Ra Henare
  
  Anything in the media with Rod Jacksons name attached is to be ignored.
  He is a prat with a one track ideological mindset.
  
  I suspect he is being trotted out on a regular basis to ramp up the fear porn.
  
  Why dont we get balanced reporting. Ie another Epidemiologist/public health expert who seems the world through a different(ie not fear porn) lens.
  There are plenty about if actions of various governments are taken as a guideline.
  Denmark, Ireland, Sweden, Australia(NSW)
  
  So much for balanced reporting in NZ media. I see another Complaint coming on to Stuff & the Media Council.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:40am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Jackson appears to be the medias’ go-to Bedwetter on all things covid.
    He was shrieking about 100% mandatory vaccinations cos’ he was terrified (his words) he may unknowingly walk past an ~~unclean~~ unvaxxed person in the Supermarket. ?
    The irony that he was vaxxed (and obviously) it does not afford him any protection was lost on him and his hysteria.
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:44am
- ecco
  
  Those young unvaccinated maoris don’t frequent places where a vaccine passport may be mandated. So it won’t be any inducement for them to get vaccinated. These people are off grid making their own entertainment. As we’ve seen with the gang border infractions. At least a bit of sunlight shone on their activities, and also the aiding and abetting of their activities by Ardern’s government.
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:04am
- Simon
  
  It’s conditioning of the general population. It’s controlling behaviour. You are not meant to question it. It doesn’t matter if it doesn’t make sense.
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:08am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  How about this all schools and businesses closed for months every year.
  
  Sweden calculated that natural herd immunity would be at 70 to 75%, working for them.
  
  We were told the vaccine was the answer and that the vaccine would be 95% effective, now I’m not hearing anything from the government, internationally it seems to be dropping some as low as 39% effective and dropping.
  
  It was 80%, 85%, 90%, now I’m hearing 95% vaccination.
  
  So the inept clown show picked the wrong path, they bet the bank on vaccination, but even then they forgot to order the vaccines in a timely manner.
  
  Now it is becoming apparent that we have gone down the wrong path instead of accepting the reality, they are doubling down.
  
  Covid is going to become indemic, we are going to have to learn to live with it.
  
  The rest of the world is opening up for business, we are becoming the next hermit kingdom.
  
  We will get one chance, maybe, to vote the clown show out, the bribes for votes will be substantial.
  
  If not we will be the next one party state and the tyrant will take over and the tyranny will begin.
  
  Private property rights will be a thing of the past.
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:19am
- KevO'Brien
  
  social isolation for years to come
  That won’t be possible as the collapsing economy will cause such a mess MP’s will be screaming.
  Too many lockdowns already. Each one causes further loss of human activity which interacts with someone else. Such interactions are what provides our livelihoods. The whole world is in a mess accordingly and now we are going to have imported price inflation because of it.
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:19am
  - Paulus
    
    Children need to interact with other children to grow – so shut schools !
    Children, those who normally go, hate the inactivity.
    
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    October 12, 2021 11:02am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Hmm. How does one truant when schools are closed? Tricky!
      
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      October 12, 2021 7:46pm
- doggone7
  
  The hospital system will face some stress as unvaccinated get ill. When your neighbour friend has a heart attack and there are three victims seriously hurt in a car crash, who gets priority?
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:45am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    The vaccinated will be getting just as ill at those who are unvaccinated. Look at Israel as the paradigm. Believing otherwise is just false and willfully ignores reality.
    
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    October 12, 2021 11:54am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Sorry you are mistaken. And data from Israel shows no such thing.
      
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      October 12, 2021 5:11pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    And the car crash victims were all drunk and driving without a licence, would you prioritise those, really?
    
    Your neighbour weighs 400 kg, has kidney problems that cause the heart attack, eats 6 tubs of KFC at a sitting, plus 4 extra large diet Coke’s. Prioritise them as well ?
    
    You do have strange ideas bout who is responsible for their help and who isn’t.
    
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    October 12, 2021 12:13pm
  - kiwimike
    
    Doggone7
    According to Te PauPau, Maori get priority and they have a veto too!
    
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    October 12, 2021 1:17pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    The argument keeps changing from the people who support jab coercion. They threaten to take away your right to hospital care, a job, to enter shops, to be a part of society.
    
    The argument that the unvaxxed are more of a burden on the hospital system is unethical and inconsistent. If you want to offer healthcare based on merit then you will also need to rate people who are: unvaxxed, overweight, old, criminal, high risk sports, poor drivers, drinkers, people who don’t exercise. And then you don’t have a socialist healthcare system anymore If you exclude a group based on their ideology from a publicly funded service ( eg. the unvaxxed ) then you would have to exclude them from paying healthcare taxes so they could set up their own hospitals and wellbeing programmes.
    
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    October 12, 2021 1:24pm
- cas
  
  An item on 3 news last night showed why the Govt is shit at rolling out the vaccines. Te Whanau-Apanui have done it themselves – no shot bro buses or free taxis. They have achieved an incredibly high rate for people on the East Coast by going out onto the farms, going to the whitebait spots, getting the hunters coming out from the bush. No waiting for people to come to them. And they started in May.
  
  We should have contracted them for the whole rollout.
  
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  October 12, 2021 10:06am
- septic skeptic
  
  No doubt some of these experts also signed the open letter to Boris predicting a massive wave of deaths if the UK opened up recently. That got a lot of media coverage shortly before they ended most restrictions. Not much afterwards though.
  Fools.
  
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  October 12, 2021 10:11am
- exkiwi
  
  I live in the US in a heavily vaxxed area in a ‘Blue State’, and yes this is exactly what it is like. All my neighbors have been vaccinated, but we never go into each others houses because of the fear of Covid. True, they have young kids who are unvaccinated, but these kids are very low risk. Supposedly we are waiting for them to be vaxxed, but I wouldn’t be surprised if and when they can get the Pfizer vaccine, we still won’t be socializing in each other’s homes.
  
  Furthermore, most of my neighbors are still working from home (not me, although white collar I am now in a sector that has a vaccine mandate). They seem shocked that I go in to work everyday – how dangerous!! Many of their corporations are talking about returning to the office in early 2022, but no real dates have been given, and previous ones kept getting put back.
  
  So welcome to the forever pandemic, Kiwis!
  
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  October 12, 2021 10:29am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    The many who genuinely think that vaccination will be the beginning of the end are deluding themselves. Vaccination is just the start. Even with 90%+ vaccination (perhaps even because of that) cases will surge, so masks will still be required and everything else, and probably more. We are being seduced for a life under total control. That should terrify everyone, but it’s just too disturbing for many to admit and internalise.
    
    The only way is to resist right now, because it will become impossible later. Few want the inconvenience, though. If there is ongoing compliance, our collective futures look very bleak. It will be cold comfort to be able to say “I told you so.”
    
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    October 12, 2021 12:03pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  I commented on this nonsense yesterday. Delta is too infectious to become endemic. It spreads rapidly through the population leaving most people with more powerful antibodies than vaccination. As seen elsewhere with an initial peak followed by sharp falls.
  
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  October 12, 2021 10:56am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    On its own, the fact that natural immunity/antibodies are deemed insufficient for a vax pass or a waiver should confirm beyond all question in everyone’s mind that this is 100% not about health. Natural immunity has now been well established as being more effective than vaccination, yet it can’t be controlled by the overlords, so, to them, it’s no good.
    
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    October 12, 2021 12:09pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Indeed, it is only pretending to be about health. But there’s a depressingly large number of people who seem to want to be locked down into scared little bubbles, handing over their own responsibilities to an elite unelected class who don’t, of course, have to obey those same rules themselves (except in the odd high publicity event where masks are put on just before and removed immediately after, the public part of the event).
      
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      October 12, 2021 12:17pm
- guardianista
  
  I think I read the other day that the case fatality rate in the uk is just under 0.1%. Mostly vaccinated people getting the virus over there now.
  
  As a rough rule this virus has killed off about 0.2% of the population in most western countries. There are issues with waning vaccine efficiency over time and how well people are treated ( no ivermectin for us!) but I’m going to guess that even with high risk people vaccinated this virus will over time kill off 0.1% of nzers. 5000.
  
  But can the government stand this? How will it try to stop this? Have we got the icu capacity to cope with surges that happen in even the most vacccinated countries?
  
  Unfortunately I think the answers are that the government doesn’t have the balls to “let it go” so that we will face more restrictions, more demands for at least the next year, cheered on by the media and the elites.
  
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  October 12, 2021 12:28pm
Benedict Yu

The stupidity makes my head hurt.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/126641014/governments-covid19-response-is-a-breach-of-te-tiriti-o-waitangi-mori-health-experts-say

‘Dr Heather Came, head of the Department of Public Health at Auckland University of Technology, said inequitable roll-out was a clear breach of Te Tiriti.

The vaccination rates showed Māori did not have the same rights, privileges and protections as the general population, Came said. “I think we’ve prioritised everybody instead of prioritising Māori.”’
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October 12, 2021 8:01am
- sooty
  
  Bullshit to you lady!
  All they have to do is turn up, if they chose too!
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:08am
  - I'm Karen
    
    Free taxi’s are even on offer to get them there
    
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    October 12, 2021 11:35am
- PhilBest
  
  Don’t mention that Maori don’t turn up to get vaccinated and that this is the problem. It is a barefaced lie rooted in “get whitey” occasion-seeking, that Maori HAVEN’T been prioritized.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:09am
- kowtow
  
  As an activist she would say that.
  
  What ‘s more important these days , truth or lies.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:11am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Why bother to ask, you already know the answer.
    
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    October 12, 2021 12:18pm
- Megatron
  
  Benedict, this from the same article. “Last week, people of Asian backgrounds closed in on 100 per cent for first doses, but less than 60 per cent of Māori have been reached”. You can lead a horse to water, but……
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:12am
- Lance
  
  Stock standard reply to anything they want to moan about now is
  1. It’s racist
  2. It’s a breach of the Treaty
  3. All of the above
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:12am
  - igm
    
    Like they can still have gang funerals with no limits, run prosititutes around the country to boost income with no limits . . . where is it going to end?
    
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    October 12, 2021 8:51am
- cmm
  
  “The vaccination rates showed Māori did not have the same rights, privileges and protections as the general population.”
  
  Well she’s right, but not the way she thinks she is.
  
  Maori are not getting equal treatment – they are getting treatment far above and beyond what anyone else is getting.
  
  The health system sees the expenditure of tens of millions of dollars a year on targeted Maori health initiatives specifically designed to improve Maori health outcomes.
  
  With CV19, we spent many tens of millions dollars just in determining Maori-centric strategies, then more tens of millions executing them.
  
  And even with the extra service availability etc, they still have worse outcomes. This is not because they are denied services, but just because they don’t do their bit.
  
  All you have to do is get off the couch bro!
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:13am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    I looked at this so-called inequity yesterday
    
    Maori aged 65 are vaccinated at 97% of the rate 65 Pakeha are. In fact for the 50-65 cohort it’s 90-97%
    
    For Pacifica it’s 93-98% across the same age range
    
    Are we seriously expected to believe that some brown guy in his/her 30s or 40s has a harder time accessing vaccination centres than their elders and betters?
    
    Bollocks, if the olds can do it then it just shows that the young colonially-oppressed w*ankers are too lazy to get off the couch
    
    Too f*cking lazy to get themselves protected
    
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    October 12, 2021 8:21am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Oh and here’s a quote from the Stuff article
      
      Dr Heather Came… said inequitable roll-out was a clear breach of Te Tiriti.
      
      The vaccination rates showed Māori did not have the same rights, privileges and protections as the general population, Came said. “I think we’ve prioritised everybody instead of prioritising Māori.”
      
      Get that? Maori are discriminated against because they have the SAME access as everybody else
      
      My second dumb-academic post of the day
      
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      October 12, 2021 8:24am
      - Yvette
        
        Budget 2020: Māori to get $900m to deal with Covid-19 fallout
        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/416669/budget-2020-maori-to-get-900m-to-deal-with-covid-19-fallout
        
        Budget 2021: Māori to receive over $1 billion covering housing, health, reo initiatives
        • $242.8m for Māori health initiatives, including setting up the new Māori Health Authority.
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/budget-2021-maori-to-receive-over-1-billion-covering-housing-health-reo-initiatives/P2ZHBDB72HQPC3ZJP5R372G6JU/
        
        As has been suggested several times, the ‘tikanga” that justifies the new Māori Health Authority must be known now – to propose such an entity – and therefore if at all valid, could be applied to the current approach to vaccination needs. Or forget the wastage in setting up the Māori Health Authority. Simple.
        
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        October 12, 2021 8:41am
      - pdm
        
        I call heifer dust on that.
        
        They probably did not have vaccines in February 1840.
        
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        October 12, 2021 9:37am
      - septic skeptic
        
        Maybe they should go through the Maori roll and census data to identify any non vaxxed. Then turn up before dawn with whatever force is necessary and administer the doses.
        
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        October 12, 2021 10:26am
      - curry4me
        
        Wavey Davey: Imagine how much more a degree would be worth in a few years if Waikato, and Massey were closed.
        
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        October 12, 2021 10:57am
      - WaveyDavey
        
        Massey University – 272nd in the rankings
        Waikato – 375
        
        AUT – 437
        
        I’m guessing speaking in tongues and making silly faces while dancing don’t really count for much after all
        
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        October 12, 2021 5:00pm
    - Tomtoddy
      
      Hey, WD can you point to where those age stats came from please?
      
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      October 12, 2021 9:04am
      - WaveyDavey
        
        5th graphic down
        
        https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data
        
        Handily it also does it by area so you can see who the real slackers are
        
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        October 12, 2021 9:51am
      - WaveyDavey
        
        Yo can also see that in every cohort except 65 plus Pacifica are effectively matching or exceeding Pakeha 2nd dose vaccination rates (v slightly below in the 20-34 cohort)
        
        So where’s the inequity, the vaccine apartheid, systemic racism?
        
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        October 12, 2021 9:58am
      - Ehlana
        
        Tom, you can find them here: https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data
        
        The Ministry of Health specifically reports the vaccine uptake of Māori and Pacific people compared with the rest of us. The darker the green, the better the performance. Pacific Islanders are generally doing well; 20-34 year old Maori are lagging badly.
        
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        October 12, 2021 9:59am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Apparently the “+” symbol no longer works
      
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      October 12, 2021 9:52am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      This is a direct consequence of infantilizing Maori over the last generation with bullshit blame-shifting, excuse making and easy welfare enabling avoidance of responsibility and not growing up. Older Maori were brought up to stand on their own feet and take responsibility for themselves (and achieved statistically far better outcomes as a result). Indulging failure in younger generations has inevitably resulted in a far higher incidence of complete uselessness.
      Welfare is a medicine that treats the symptoms but invariably makes the disease worse, like giving heroin addicts more heroin to treat withdrawal
      
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      October 12, 2021 10:44am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Special treatment for local Maori in Christchurch. Even ring for a car to take you there and back.
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:21am
    - JibberJabber
      
      Not just Maori Kev, I got that txt last night also.
      
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      October 12, 2021 1:21pm
- alex Masterley
  
  Benedict, thanks for drawing that comment to our attention.
  My reaction is simple. What unmitigated bullshit. If people can get off their arses they can get vacinated. Unfortunately for some the couch is too comfortable and they stay put.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:15am
  - david
    
    Another “University” department that is filled with intellectually deficient people and needs a clean out.
    
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    October 12, 2021 8:34am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    I’m usually very critical of aspects of Maori behaviour, but definitely not on this one. I’m cheering them on. You needn’t invoke the “just get off your ass” argument, when there are myriad of sound medical and logical reasons, already very well canvassed and discussed in this forum, why vaccination is unnecessary and is to be avoided at all cost.
    
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    October 12, 2021 12:16pm
    - septic skeptic
      
      It must be a source of great encouragement for you. When you look around at your fellow un-vaxxed that must confirm that you are in the enlightened group on this one!
      
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      October 12, 2021 2:25pm
- Surely Knott
  
  By the same argument, if Maori are under vaccinated, and they government bring in restrictions from participating in society as a punishment for not having that provisional vaccine, then Maori are being disproportionately targeted. Where are the academics on that issue? They just like to angst over Maori statistics when it suits their narrative.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:17am
- rouppe
  
  It’s deliberate and planned, not stupidity.
  
  Note the new and convenient “principle” of “active protection”. Completely made up.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:19am
- Yvette
  
  Benedict Yu – to ease your hurting head
  Dr Heather Came – The vaccination rates showed Māori did not have the same rights, privileges and protections as the general population
  
  Treaty of Waitangi Article 3: the Crown promised to Māori the benefits of royal protection and full citizenship.
  The only protection is the vaccination – and a few hygiene and spacing rules
  The Crown cannot force citizens, Maori or non-Maori to avail themselves of those, particularly a vaccination.
  But full citizenship carries not only rights but responsibilities, to oneself and others.
  Vaccination has been widely publicised.
  The choice to be vaccinated is Personal Rangatiratanga, the traditional Māori philosophy, value and practice of people exercising their independence, and determining their choices for governing themselves.
  
  Ka taea e koe te arahi i te hoiho ki te wai, engari kaore e taea te whakainu
  
  Where did that go wrong?
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:30am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The fell into the water. Mixed in Maori make for fun.
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:29am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  State Sector Employee shit stirrer.
  ‘Activist scholar, Tangata Tiriti, STIRer, working relentlessly for the end of institutional racism in the health system, critical te Tiriti analysis…’
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:33am
  - curry4me
    
    Steve Otto(North Shore) She doesn’t want to end institutional raycism. She wants to have the ‘right kind’ of institutional raycism’. The kind that involves jobs for life if you’re a half smart academic.
    
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    October 12, 2021 11:02am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Two types? How ’bout that?
      
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      October 12, 2021 1:40pm
- Exclamation Mark
  
  Dr Heather Came. I wish her parents hadn’t.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:34am
  - pdm
    
    The boy stood on the burning deck
    He wished he wasn’t born
    His mother said you would not have been
    If the Frenchie hadn’t torn!!!
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:39am
- Durden
  
  If anything Maori have more rights privileges and protections than general population.
  
  I understand they can now order a cab to get to the vaccination centre and back. And they get a voucher ranging from $75-$100 if they get jabbed.
  
  In addition to the hangi and music and kapa haka, maybe we should also co-ordinate with gangs to perk them up with some free P and dope and enough “comfort women” to sooth their post-jab ouchies and fears.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:39am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Transport’s available in Christchurch’s poor suburb.
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:30am
- RiP NZ
  
  I’d be embarrassed to a be Maori today, infantised in every sector of society.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:41am
  - Liberal Cliche
    
    Its white liberals and their pet Maori elite doing it.
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:54am
  - alloytoo
    
    Soft bigotry of low expectations.
    
    All the real racists migrated to academia ages ago.
    
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    October 12, 2021 10:05am
- Ra Henare
  
  Seems to me when activists(in this case Heather Came) gets backed in to a corner, out comes the Treaty partnership bullshit.
  
  Vaccination rates are not ferkin racist!
  
  Denying Maori the same access as anybody else would be racist.
  The facts are the reverse, Maori got special treatment.
  I think some Pakeha should be calling their treatment (ie behind Maori) as racist and not in the Spirit of the Treaty.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:46am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The greater majority of Maori folk are double vaxxed in the North Cape and Te Kaha-Waihau Bay area
  …seemingly because they have decent tribal structures and leaders.
  
  e Rūnanga-nui o Te Aupōuri chief executive Mariameno Kapa-Kingi put the area’s high jab rate down to ”ordinary Māori things” such as whakapapa and whānaungatanga, and the way they were applied by Māori-owned and -operated organisations.
  
  A similar effect could be seen in Te Whānau-ā-Apanui territory near East Cape, which had a high vaccination rate despite its deprivation. Both areas also had leaders who were actively and persistently fronting the vaccination message, she said.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/low-vaccination-numbers-across-rural-northland-a-real-concern/RG7KUB3ZXZSWIYXUE6JHM6N6RI/
  
  You really have to conclude that many of Maori MPs are out of touch with their own communities.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:48am
  - alloytoo
    
    “You really have to conclude that many of Maori MPs are out of touch with their own communities.”
    
    They opportunistic “******”s, why should they be any different from any other labour MP?
    
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    October 12, 2021 10:07am
- RockyJ
  
  The tragedy of Maori is that their own leaders will sell them out for their personal gain. Maori elites need continual Maori dysfunction in order to keep beating favours out of whitey.
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:09am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    That is not unique to Maori. Leaders will almost always sell out those they represent for personal gain. Outside of extremely disciplined and thought-controlled cultures that has always been true.
    
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    October 12, 2021 1:26pm
    - dave_c_
      
      One only has to look at our beloved leader and her ilk!
      
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      October 12, 2021 5:08pm
- JibberJabber
  
  Maybe it’s the Maori that are choosing not to be vaccinated are the ones that are breaching Te Tiriti?…/s
  Ever think of that Dr Came?
  
  That Maori are perfectly capable of thinking and making decisions for themselves, seems to be an anathema to academics and their know all saviour complex.
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:19am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Sorry BY, offended response making the same point as you above because I had not got this far down.
  
  Won’t happen again. Well maybe, but not intentionally . . .
  
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  October 12, 2021 10:15am
fernglas

Shamubeel Eaqub says that some small businesses should be allowed to fail to permit those which survive Covid to grow stronger. Do you think he would apply the same logic to human deaths?
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October 12, 2021 8:03am
- Lance
  
  Considering he has been a consistent Labour fanboy for years now, no surprises there.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:14am
- kowtow
  
  Or to the massive subsidies going to all things “green”.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:15am
- Yabster
  
  or to public servants and economists…
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:25am
- Taieri
  
  Perhaps it’s the time to allow Shamubeel Eaqub to fail? So that other independent economists can grow stronger? Anyone still remembers Eaqub’s advice on housing, recommending renting instead of purchase, since, according to Eaqub, the latter didn’t make sense…
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:27am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Eaqub’s been a failure in my mind, ever since he declared Whanganui to be a “zombie town”. We haven’t stopped growing since!
    
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    October 12, 2021 8:30am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    And of course as soon as reality hit him in the face with the prospect of finding another rental for his family, he went and bought a house.
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/94966044/shamubeel-eaqub-ive-bought-a-house-at-last
    
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    October 12, 2021 8:52am
  - ecco
    
    He’s probably got a nice little government earner like Henry.
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:09am
  - Jack5
    
    Subsidies for pro-Left newspapers and news sites, but no sympathy for normally viable small businesses?
    
    These are suicide Lefties, like the Japanese Army holding out on Saipan or some other island in the 1940s.
    
    It will end with a banzai Covid charge, and the New Zealand islands will be left economically bare, desolate, beyond pock-marked.
    
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    October 12, 2021 11:16am
- PeeJay
  
  Eaqub has steadily gone downhill over the last few years. I used to find him interesting but these days I find he tends to be self-contradictory and more concerned about keeping his name in the frame for regular comment gigs. He’s been consistently wrong on property for about 12 years now!
  
  A week or so ago he was on about government borrowing not being an issue because rates were low. Let that sink in – rates are low. Why yes, they are….or were! Any economist unable to look at the trends over the next year and see rising inflation and rising rates is an idiot. And not once, as far as I’ve read, has he questioned whether this massive government borrowing is ‘good borrowing’ which is being invested in economy growing infrastructure investment. He long ago stopped being interesting and is now just another talking bobble head.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:36am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    I never found him interesting other than as an example of incompetence with a voice.
    
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    October 12, 2021 4:50pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  My tax accounts are done by a separate company.
  They tell me their time is taken up, almost exclusively by resurgence payment applications and wage subsidy applications.
  Meaning MOST small business’ are struggling, they say across ALL demographics.
  Except those accounts firms applying for these payments.
  This feels like we are all circling the drain together and it is this govt.s :
  1. Handling of the economy both pre and post covid.
  2. Massive regulation increases
  3. I encroachment into areas that govt.s should stay out of (eg housing)
  4. Borrow and spend attitude
  5. Attitude to transport
  6. Covid response, planning etc
  (what is the plan to get back to level ZERO, ie to where we were before covid)
  A plan….any plan???
  They SAY the have a “plan”, but have not shared it with us…you know…the citizens that the work for.
  STOP acting like an all powerful, pre Magna Carta, Monarch and start acting like a Prime Minister, put there by the citizens to do the job THEY want.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:36am
  - ecco
    
    Went into a long-standing shop in Wellington that is closing down due to hike in rent. The owner said they were looking to open up somewhere else and accountant advised them not to with the economic disruption/ mishandling of the economy expected in the next year.
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:13am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Bill Gates is promoting that.
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:31am
- dave_c_
  
  Eaquab is a confirmed ‘lacky’, who has sold his soul for the baubles of populism.
  
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  October 12, 2021 5:09pm
Yvette

Ardern’s disposition
• “[Tarrant] sought many things from his act of terror, but one was notoriety – that is why you will never hear me mention his name,” Ms Ardern said in an emotional address at New Zealand’s parliament.

• Ardern said she wanted to explain why the [ISIS inspitred Auckland knife] attacker had not been deported but could not because to do so would violate court suppression orders, which also prevented her from identifying, him, she said. But she said had no intention of naming him anyway. “No terrorist, whether alive or deceased, deserves their name to be shared for the infamy they were seeking,” she said.

(Didn’t learn that refusing to say Tarrant’s name, ensured local and international media would print it)

• Jacinda Ardern: ‘Very little of what I have done has been deliberate. It’s intuitive’

• While many members in the public are calling for the missing [Northland] traveller to be named, Ardern said she would not name her but she has asked police and health to consider doing so.

• Will simply not name a vaccination percentage target.

• As New Zealand steps into the unknown with its Covid approach, so does its prime minister, Jacinda Ardern. Having brought the country through the pandemic largely unscathed so far, she was richly rewarded with political popularity and trust. Now the prime minister faces the difficult task of guiding it through a new era of Covid suppression – and it could be the most significant political challenge she has faced yet.

The Week in Politics: Transition confusion and Auckland’s road to nowhere
“The prime minister has not explicitly called time on the elimination strategy but the government’s plan marks a clear move away from it,” RNZ reported.

How many times do you have to do something before it is an observable pattern, displaying perhaps a sizeable insecurity complex and a fear of things turning to custard?

Do the above cherry-picked examples indicate –
1 – a deeply-seat controlling psychological inhibition
2 – an illogical logic, or
3 – a calculated political intention to disassociate with any failure?

Is any of these traits helpful in anyone who is making decisions concerning the wellbeing of millions where possible severe illness or perhaps deaths of hundreds, if not thousands, is involved?

Is Ardern’s disposition another sound reason to get yourself fully vaccinated?
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October 12, 2021 8:03am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Ardern qualifies as a “useful idiot”.
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:32am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Sorry Kev, but you’ve included a word too many in what Ardern qualifies as.
    
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    October 12, 2021 10:24am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Useful idiots are used by others to bring places like NZ under their control. They fall for the ideology by are ultimately dumped and removed from history.
      
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      October 12, 2021 12:40pm
cmm

“Experts” say we must not allow CV19 to become endemic.

Maybe it’s time we got some grown ups for our experts. In the history of humankind, nobody has ever prevented a virus from becoming endemic. Denying that is child-thinking. Shut your eyes, bury your head under the pillow and maybe the baddies go away.

I think the main problem the “experts” have is that when it does become endemic, and it will, their little trough dries up and they’re no longer going to have the ego-rush of seeing their mugs in the paper.

The opinion piece by three troughers is riddled with truth management. So let’s look at what they have to say…

“Because we certainly cannot live with endemic SARS-CoV-2.”
Why not? We live with the H1N1 flu (swine flu) that gave us the Spanish Flu – which is arguably 300x as bad as CV19. Spanish Flu killed about 50 million and infected a third or the world’s population as measured with SYMPTOMS. If we measured with PCR tests like CV19 is being measured, then Spanish Flu would have killed hundreds of millions and the whole world’s population would have been infected.

“The Delta variant spreads ominously and without controls, every infected person, on average, would infect six more, then 36, 216, 1296, 7776, 46,656 — we would get to more than twice New Zealand’s five million with three more cycles.”

That is preposterous. It is like saying that a car that accelerates from 0 to 60kph in 6 seconds will go supersonic in less than two minutes and go faster than the speed of light in thirty hours. Or seeing the tide come in and predicting it will cover the Port Hills by the end of the week and cover Mt Cook by the end of 2022.

If your models show that then your models are FUCKED!

No virus ever replicates exponentially forever. If your models show that then you lack the most basic understanding of virus replication and modelling. You have no placing expecting to be paid for what you do. This is mathematical modelling 101 stuff. I hope none of you are in teaching roles.

“Those who dismiss a mild case of Covid-19 as being “no worse than the flu” have forgotten how appalling a case of flu really is”

Rubbish. This is a problem with the way flu cases are measured. According to Baker, there are over 1 million flu “cases” a year. The vast majority of those (over 98%) do not even seek medical attention.

“[flu] kills about 500 people in New Zealand each year.”. Nope. According to Baker, if you measured flu deaths the same way you measure CV19 deaths then there would be 10,000 flu deaths per year.

“A disease becomes endemic when it is more or less always present in a population. It does not care whether it is manageable.”

Like H1N1 (Swine flu/Spanish flu), and every flu and virus known to mankind ever, we build up resistance once we get antibodies. We build up antibodies when we encounter the virus which we will when it becomes endemic. As previously mentioned, H1N1 killed far more than CV19 – and kiled them far younger too. Pretty much everyone in the whole world was infected with a third of the world’s population showing symptoms. We built up antibodies and now we get occasional outbreaks.

“If Covid-19 becomes endemic, … Schools and businesses will close for days, even weeks, because too many people are sick.”
It seems we’re doing a fine job of closing schools and businesses for LONGER than days or weeks even without a virus in the community. By the definition here, the cure is worse than the sickness!

“If Covid-19 becomes endemic, …. It will cost the world trillions “

Ummm, it is already endemic just about everywhere except NZ. Do you really think that keeping CV19 out of NZ will save the world trillions?

“If Covid-19 becomes endemic,… the burden on our healthcare system will be immense.”

We’ve had 18 months of warning to fix ICU capacity. We’ve done Sweet Fuck All!

“The as yet unpublished trials suggest the treatment [Merck’s new antiviral] could cut hospitalisations in half, markedly improving outcomes for those already infected. But it will not reduce the number of cases by even one.”

So what? In the age of PCR testing, “case” is a meaningless measure.

“Delta – with an R0 about five times that of flu “
How do you figure that out? Flu’s R0 must be bigger than you’re saying if there are a quarter of NZ population infected every year.

Aah, fuck it. I’m giving up…

I don’t mind these people making bell-ends of themselves. However they are travelling under the banner of “scientists” and call what they do “science”. In doing so, they are eroding the credibility of scientists, and science. As a scientist myself, I resent that.

They are further damaging the scientific credibility of the institutions they belong to.

Science, engineering and law and order are the greatest achievements of humanity. All supposed to be data driven and evidence based (hypothesising and what-iffing are valid too, but need to be clearly marked as such). There is no valid place for bullshit in science, engineering and law and order. When fake practitioners move the fields away from evidence, they no longer serve humanity. They are undermining the thousands of years of progress that has brought us this far.

A little piece of me died today.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-why-we-must-not-allow-virus-to-become-endemic-in-new-zealand-experts/PEGPZ6RZOLUP36U34JA24BL32M/
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October 12, 2021 8:06am
- PhilBest
  
  I replied to Benedict up the thread because he had read the same thing, and so had I, on Stuff and Nonsense.
  
  The fact that The Herald is pushing it too, makes it obvious that this is some kind of psy-ops with the blessing of those who are pulling the strings of the entire MSM. Everything you say is right, and Benedict too.
  
  I would add that I sometimes wonder whether these people are so economically illiterate that they really think printing money to pay people to do nothing, and not actually have an economy and society “working” and trading and utilizing resources to create goods and services of value, is a sustainable utopia. This kind of economic illiteracy was already a growing problem, but 2020 seems to have been when it threw off all constraints and went full retard.
  
  Of course the “Great Reset” folks at the World Economic Forum know full well that this is NOT sustainable, and they haf a plan for when the inevitable collapse comes. “You vill not own property, and you vill be happy vith that”. Of course THEY will have more wealth than ever, and power to a degree that they didn’t before.
  
  I sometimes wonder whether these seemingly economic illiterates writing such stuff and nonsense, really are more clever that that, and like Klaus “Dr Evil” Schwab, they can’t bring on the collapse fast enough, assuming that “the solution” is the forever tyranny they want anyway.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:14am
  - cmm
    
    “I would add that I sometimes wonder whether these people are so economically illiterate that they really think printing money etc”
    
    WTF do they care. They have their little ivory tower jobs no matter what. They are not part of the productive economy that makes it all happen.
    
    When the “Great Reset” happens, they’ll be fine too.
    
    The troughers look after themselves. They will be the last that have to tighten their belts.
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:03am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      Pol pot marched all the academics, teachers and other non poductive people into a field and shot them.
      
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      October 12, 2021 9:43am
  - Paulus
    
    Understand that many Teachers in Auckland do not like having to return to work anytime soon.
    And they do not like being told by Cindy to Vaccinate to retain their jobs.
    They have not decided a return timeline as per their Union.
    And they are one of her leading group Labour Party Voters along with Medical staff.
    She will lose many votes in doing the right thing.
    Not convinced it will not be changed soon anyway for that reason – Votes
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:05am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      They have been pushing the socialist agenda for 30 plus years.
      
      They are hard core socialists.
      
      If dear leader stated that it was in the public interest that all people over say 60 are a burden on society and should be killed off, many of them would happily walk off a cliff.
      
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      October 12, 2021 9:48am
    - Ehlana
      
      Elections are won in the centre though – if you are a union member, who else can you vote for besides Labour? On the other hand, if National presents a credible alternative, the centre can vote for them. And where does that leave the teacher unions?
      
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      October 12, 2021 10:10am
      - cmm
        
        ” if you are a union member, who else can you vote for besides Labour?”
        
        Maybe you just don’t vote.
        
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        October 12, 2021 11:22am
    - alloytoo
      
      Who is a vaccine mandate for teachers protecting?
      
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      October 12, 2021 10:13am
- westernScientest
  
  good piece, the phrase “slow march through the institutions” comes to mind
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:14am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    It has ben pretty rapid these last few years.
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:00am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Yeah, once these faculties had pushed out all non-left voices a decade or two back they were free to push hard left indoctrination without even the pretence of balance.
      
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      October 12, 2021 10:49am
- Taieri
  
  There is no valid place for bullshit in science, engineering and law and order.
  —————–
  
  Unfortunately, the utterances by Hendy, Wiles, Jackson, Wilson, Baker and such like testify otherwise.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:32am
  - cmm
    
    I would argue that they are not practicing science. They are activists masquerading as scientists.
    
    These are the same (inaudibles) that are futher dissing science by telling us that “Maori science” is real science too.
    
    Bullshit. You cannot have real science without a precise (ie. written) language. You cannot have science without mathematics. Maori had neither.
    
    Without precision there is also no rule of law, no accounting, no ability to administer a large community, so no towns and no complex cultural outputs (proper art etc). All there is is brute force: once were warriors crap.
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:08am
    - Taieri
      
      They are activists masquerading as scientists.
      ——————
      
      And propagating and perpetuating their activism through their students. Doesn’t look good for the future of NZ science. Looks even worse for the future of NZ…
      
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      October 12, 2021 9:39am
- Stu2
  
  The growth nonsense in that article ignored vaccination.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:32am
  - Cinematic
    
    It ignored reality.
    
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    October 12, 2021 8:48am
- Cinematic
  
  Quite brilliant CMM.
  
  I came to the conclusion long ago that this cabal of health zealots had lost track of reality.
  
  Do they not think we can see what’s happening in countries with endemic delta? Frankly their behaviour and statements are bizarre.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:50am
- Master Mariner
  
  Cmm “If your models show that then your models are FUCKED!”
  Does anyone know what’s the parameters for these “Models”.
  If not, Then why not. ?
  Otherwise its just propaganda in my mind.
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:09am
- KevO'Brien
  
  I agree entirely with you. I also see concerns about a lack of a duty of care. They don’t know what they’re doing and that can be considered as fraud.
  This govt has also abandoned law.
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:37am
plc

If Stuff hadn’t previously jumped your own particular shark, certainly this morning there can be no doubt.

Auckland ‘journalist/influencer’ Verity Johnson describes Ardern as a cool, chic Churchill.

Mic drop
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October 12, 2021 8:06am
- kowtow
  
  Wilson in the Ferald too . She’s a leader in what is akin to a war time health crisis . Mercifully he does draw short of using the Churchill analogy.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:19am
  - plc
    
    “Protect the Queen”
    
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    October 12, 2021 8:32am
- WaveyDavey
  
  Ah Verity “I’m not a stripper, I remove my clothes in public in an artful manner” Johnson
  
  The byline is an invitation for a scrollpast
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:27am
- MCos
  
  You managed to pull a few words out of what is an article highly critical of the PM.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:40am
- Jimbo666
  
  Churchill didn’t take a day off while fighting WW2, unless for health reasons, unlike our leader who goes missing in action, quite often.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:44am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Perhaps time for the Labour Party to retrieve that portrait of Winston Churchill out of the dusty cupboard and put it up in the PM’s office.
    Never let an opportunity to virtue signal go by.
    Yes, I do realise that it was the Green marxists who removed the portrait in the first place – but I didn’t notice the red communists objecting.
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:56am
- Ruahine
  
  The ‘Hope New Zealand Video has been taken off YouTube. Copyright reasons being the reason.
  I suspect there is more to it than that.
  ‘So woke Jacinda. Such a joke Jacinda’
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:45am
  - alloytoo
    
    I have my copy.
    
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    October 12, 2021 10:15am
    - Bridgenag
      
      Please can we get the copy out there
      
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      October 12, 2021 1:15pm
      - alloytoo
        
        I suppose the real question is weather the mods would allow a download link to be posted here?
        
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        October 12, 2021 1:52pm
- PeeJay
  
  Most of the comments don’t seem to be in favour of this particular snowflake, which is very refreshing.
  
  I actually find the comments on Stuff articles very funny. It’s like they open them for comments in the expectation they will be inundated with praise and ‘you go girl’ comments and then get completely stunned when a majority of the responses are ‘WTF?’! Amazingly when they don’t get the responses they were hoping for, they tend to then close the comments section. And then rinse and repeat!
  
  And as for Auckland ‘journalist/influencer’? I used to remember we had a term for these sycophants….something brown and something about nose?
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:56am
- Frank the tank
  
  You missed the point of her article. She called supreme leader “Cindy” and otherwise criticized her indecisiveness. It was a petulant rant, but nonetheless more critical than congratulatory.
  
  Sounds like Little Miss is missing her haircuts, coffee dates and the like…..
  
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  October 12, 2021 11:32am
- Bobba Fret
  
  If Ardern had been the prime minister instead of Churchill, we would all now be speaking in German.
  
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  October 12, 2021 1:59pm
  - crackle
    
    More likely Russian comrade
    
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    October 12, 2021 8:46pm
westernScientest

I thought I had gotten used to the stupidity, but the last couple of weeks it has surprised me just how stupid things can get.

From the ‘experts’ and I am paraphrasing,
setting up a border in the middle of waikato, or edge of Auckland is doable, but one with the south island, where there is literally a piece of ocean between them, that cant be done, its to difficult, it will never work.

Im not saying there should be one, but the cognitive dissidence required for this is next level clown world.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126644533/south-island-fortress-not-possible-and-escaping-covid19-inconceivable-experts-say
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October 12, 2021 8:06am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  I’m sure you would be familiar with the fluid under pressure concept wS 🙂
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:27am
  - westernScientest
    
    would that fluid come out of a un-castrated bovine after it has eaten too much clover?
    
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    October 12, 2021 8:41am
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      ✔✔ – an apt transformation.
      
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      October 12, 2021 11:41am
Tony Stuart

What odds there’ll be an outbreak of Delta in Porirua in the next 10-14 days? And why were the Police providing “traffic management” to a gang tangi and procession yesterday that was clearly breaking both Covid and traffic safety rules?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/126639409/majority-from-procession-for-gang-tangi-behaved-within-road-rules-police-appeal-for-information

PS – note the Mercedes on the left of the photo with patched gang members hanging out of it. I must be in the wrong profession!
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October 12, 2021 8:07am
- sooty
  
  The reason they were doing traffic management was because they were not allowed to setup their guitars!
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:11am
- JibberJabber
  
  The Merc? Probably got it off some Lawyer that couldn’t pay his meth bill…
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:12am
- alex Masterley
  
  Tony, the answer to your question “why?” is becasue they are special.
  Bet the plates on the car dont match the rego (if there is one).
  I hope the Police Proceeds of Crime people were watching the processsion and noting the vehicles.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:18am
  - JeffW
    
    They were. We passed through yesterday afternoon – saw about 12 police vehicles including one with a cameraman in the back seat.
    
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    October 12, 2021 10:02am
- kevn
  
  -@Tony… and WINZ (you and I) will be paying for the gang Merc repairs. Old Euro = big bills.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:18am
- Rich Prick
  
  Finding $2.75m down the back of the couch makes it difficult to identify property bought with the proceeds of crime.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:23am
- kowtow
  
  These outright , illegal displays of contempt for the rest of New Zealand should be taken by the wokists as a sure sign of what they are ;we’re here , we can and will do what we want , we’re rich , powerful and untouchable ;
  a huge fuck you to all things decent and the values that once bound this nation together .
  
  As to the journalists calling Ardern a war time leader , why is she allowing the enemy to parade its colours , ride roughshot , unimpeded through her lines, spreading death , destruction and despair in her rear areas and ensuring the defeat of her Grand Strategy , Elimination.
  
  “leader” my arse.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:27am
- rouppe
  
  That Mercedes is a 2008 C220 diesel. Not exactly top of the line, and getting parts will be a shit
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:46am
  - MCos
    
    There’s one on Trademe for $6,400 for the discerning gangster.
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:41am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Why buy it when you can steal it . . .
      
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      October 12, 2021 10:42pm
- Ehlana
  
  I’m still waiting for some journo to ask why gang members don’t get prosecuted for gathering against the rules but Brian Tamaki does.
  
  Should he have told his followers to wear patched leather jackets? Or he should he have told the police the event was a gang initiation?
  
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  October 12, 2021 10:32am
- Ed Snack
  
  EMN registered Mercedes, that’s a 2006-8 or so era, could be up to 15 years old. Repair costs through the roof. Still looks pretty good though, that was a good decade for Mercs.
  
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  October 12, 2021 12:29pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    Bollocks. The two I bought (new E and S) were lemons. As was my mates CL.
    
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    October 12, 2021 2:34pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Agreed. Don’t take anything later than a ‘94.
      
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      October 12, 2021 8:45pm
artemisia

Reports from the US that in some areas with no-jab-no-job hospital staff and police officers are resigning in significant numbers before mandatory termination.

There will be resignations and terminations here too. Min of Ed said more than 7000 teachers are over retirement age (2018) so less reliant on that income. Half are relief teachers.

And there is already a shortage of ECE teachers. They would be teachers who look after the children of working parents.

I wonder what numbers the government’s staffing risk assessment identifies. And what the plan is to ameliorate the risk.
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October 12, 2021 8:08am
- PhilBest
  
  Another report I am seeing from the USA is that the “no jab, no job” airlines are suddenly mysteriously cancelling flights all over the place.
  
  I have said this before and I will keep saying it. Housing unaffordability, mortgage and rental slavery, which has been growing like a cancer for 20 years or more, might as well be part of an elite plot to render people helpless and compliant. Cops, nurses, etc. I note repeatedly that where significant numbers of people are just giving the man the middle finger and walking away from their job, happen to mostly be where this housing – urban planning racket never got out of hand and they still pay mortgages off in 7 to 10 years because the median house price remained at the historic norm of 3 times median income, and of course there are lower interest rates than any time in history. This is virtually entirely a US south and heartland phenomenon.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:19am
  - Ed Snack
    
    And lying about it. South West Airlines have been blaming “wether” for all their cancellations despite the fact that every other airline is flying perfectly happily.
    
    We do indeed live in a post truth world, where the narrative is considered more true than reality.
    
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    October 12, 2021 12:32pm
- kowtow
  
  The gurnerment have a cunning plan .
  
  They’re mandating these vaxxes in parcels so as not to alienate all their employees at the same time.
  
  Taking them on one at a time so as not to create a huge fight , they’d lose .
  
  Once these are done the Cops will be next , they can’t do them just yet as resignations would cause waay too much disruption to their manning levels .
  
  Where are the unions protecting their vulnerable members right to work , to feed their children and to secure a home ?
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:36am
  - rouppe
    
    Think you might be wrong. Back in the day when a wing started, everyone was lined up and given hepatitis, tetanus and all manner of other shots. Just the way it was.
    
    Doubt it’s much different. He pono kei waenga i te iwi ma
    
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    October 12, 2021 8:51am
    - kowtow
      
      back in the day there was trust in real vaccines .
      
      and your last sentence is unintelligible as is ‘wing ‘.
      
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      October 12, 2021 9:51am
      - rouppe
        
        A “wing” is what a new intake at RNZPC is called.
        
        The last sentence is what Google told me was the translation. Sure you can work it out
        
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        October 12, 2021 12:00pm
      - kowtow
        
        rouppe
        
        There’s a difference to being vaccinated as a condition of entry to new employment as per your example as opposed to having a mandate forced upon emplyees already working .
        
        Especially given how new and uncertain the efficacy of this thing is , not to mention the political nature of covid and the fact that so very few people get sick from it . Also the reason the govt gives for having it are dubious at best ” so you don’t spread it ” when it has been shown beyond a doubt that vaxxed can both get and spread .
        
        There is no “science” to this . It’s all political.
        
        “Wing” do the Peelers think they’re the airforce.
        
        As to the other thing ; couldn’t be arsed. ( That’s Anglo Saxon and doesn’t require translating.)
        
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        October 12, 2021 12:34pm
- MCos
  
  “Min of Ed said more than 7000 teachers are over retirement age (2018) so less reliant on that income. Half are relief teachers.”
  
  I’m not quite sure what your point is, but if you look at the stats you’ll see that that age group is already 85% fully vaccinated; with another 10% one dose.
  My sister is 70yo and is a reliever. She loves the work. She doesn’t have the latest degree qualification so the money is crummy, but she doesn’t care, just so long as she can fill the little five year old heads with Marxist ideology!
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:20am
  - artemisia
    
    Point is that there are a lot of older teachers who might not need the money and might be Ok with walking rather than getting the jab. Potentially a staffing hole to fill. It’s a risk.
    
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    October 12, 2021 12:28pm
    - MCos
      
      And my point is teachers of that age will almost certainly be vaccinated already.
      
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      October 12, 2021 1:55pm
- curry4me
  
  artemesia: South West Airlines have recently cancelled a lot of flights because of aircrew taking sickies.
  
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  October 12, 2021 12:30pm
- artemisia
  
  And so it begins …. For sure some will change their mind and stay. Some could walk if they feel strongly and have other options, not necessarily in New Zealand. In ECE there is not a lot of leeway with adult child ratios and even if a few walk or are laid off some working parents will be impacted. Not forgetting ECE businesses.The owner in the article said it is already almost impossible to find staff.
  
  http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/126652818/covid19-fears-childcare-centre-could-close-as-five-oppose-jab-mandate
  
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  October 12, 2021 3:50pm
JibberJabber

Anyone see the clown Gillies on the am show this morn?
With all the faux gravitas she could muster, some Pom MP was “photographed standing up enjoying a pint, when the rules CLEARLY state you MUST be sitting down if you want to drink in a pub.”
Jesu’ fargin Wept, this makes the News? ? ?
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October 12, 2021 8:09am
- kowtow
  
  What about the photo of our Prime Mangler touching some turn up for vax person in a car , evidence , today’s ferald photo.
  
  So much for the two metre rule and social distancing.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:38am
  - PhilP
    
    Kowtow…….One rule for me, one rule for thee!
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:47am
- Rich Prick
  
  The virus must have a minimum altitude, by sitting down it can’t get to you. Some of these rules are just ridiculous.
  
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  October 12, 2021 11:08am
- krazykiwi
  
  Not just pubs in the UK. Mrs kk and I were out for dinner on Saturday. Group of 18. A few people stood to move down the other end of the table to chat to people they couldn’t speak with at a distance, whereupon the proprietor appeared and very apologetically asked them to return to their seats, or to put their masks on.
  
  It is utter madness.
  
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  October 12, 2021 11:24am
ecco

Listened to Hosking’s excellent interview with Bloomfield this morning. What a master of obfuscation Bloomfield, the unelected official, is.

Pretty much like listening to an automaton (all of them are like this, Ardern, Robertson, Hipkins, Faafoi, Little). You can tell when they are on the back foot. Start stumbling and going back to the party line about vaccination rates blah blah blah. Absolutely no pragmatism, no time frame for opening up, no plan.

Bloomfield wants 90% double vaccinated before lifting lockdowns. That would be well into next year, if ever. Meanwhile Rome burns. Also talks as if the listeners to Hosking’s show are the ones transgressing lockdown rules, which couldn’t be further from the truth.

Bottom line is that anyone with the option is going to high tail it out of NZ when reasonably possible. That’s any millenial with any nous and talent. That’s anyone with the means to relocate their life elsewhere in the world. Possibly just keeping a base here but escaping to a better regime for most of the year.

There will be a mass exodus of talent and money when this blows over. I wouldn’t put it past the realms of possibility that Labour get voted in again. There are that many troughers in various forms here that are relying on government handouts and support. That will get Labour over the line again.

Immigration from developing and third world countries (more Labour Party supporters) will top up the numbers to replace those who leave.
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October 12, 2021 8:10am
- artemisia
  
  ”I wouldn’t put it past the realms of possibility that Labour get voted in again.”
  
  On recent polling there would be a Labour-led government in 2023, with Greens as kingmaker. That would be truly karmic and hard to spin 6 years of economic carnage, let alone reverse it.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:57am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I’m expecting Cinders & Co. won’t last the season out. The lock downs world wide are causing such devastation to economic survival that imported price inflation will soon hit us too.
    A govt of Cinders calibre with Pooh Bah as chief money bags with MBIE as experts will be floored.
    Unfortunately their successors will have an awful time dealing with it, as will we.
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:50am
    - ecco
      
      Unfortunately Cinders & Robertson are totally financially illiterate having gone from university straight to the bureaucracy. They would have no concept of debt to GDP ratio (was mid 20s% when Key left, and will take it up as far as they can go with no qualms).
      
      Yes agree will be someone else’s mess to fix up. Expect Robertson to start trying to slip in some new/higher taxes when he realises what a f**k up he’s making. Cinders won’t even comprehend what she’s doing economically to NZ. Never will. The UN could do us all a favour and ‘head hunt’ her right here and now. Maybe that’s the best case scenario going forward.
      
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      October 12, 2021 10:24am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        The Minister of Finance was the Chief Financial Officer of the Government. A place of high honour, ability and expectation.
        Such a person would never have consented to lockdowns as we have had and their consequences.
        Govt’s are not mere reps of the people. Ministers of State have to have real knowhow, experience and are executives. They don’t play in sand pits.
        
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        October 12, 2021 12:46pm
    - Paulus
      
      Power is all that matters to her – anyway it is Robertson and Bloomfield who are to blame for this fiasco and earlier ones of which there are many now forgotten as MSM have forgotten for money.
      
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      October 12, 2021 11:10am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        The Prime Minster is responsible to HM as Head of the Executive Council. All the blame is hers as are the rewards.
        
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        October 12, 2021 12:48pm
- MCos
  
  “Immigration from developing and third world countries will top up the numbers to replace those who leave.”
  
  Isn’t that the way it’s always been?
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:25am
- PhilP
  
  ecco…….I wouldn’t put it past Bloomfield to be on the Liebore Pardy List when his tenure at the MoH is up?
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:49am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Maybe – but by that stage his other misdeeds and general mismanagement will catch up to him. Not the shining star he once was.
    
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    October 12, 2021 11:34am
  - ecco
    
    Probably, do a Verrall on them (I always nearly write Ferrall when I think of that woman. Not sure why…).
    Ashley is on a pretty good wicket now so might just want a nice cushy retirement. I wouldn’t be surprised if they try to knight him at some stage. Aaarrrrghhh.
    
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    October 12, 2021 1:48pm
sooty

How come our police were not included in the mandatory jab program?
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October 12, 2021 8:12am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Divide and conquer.
  
  All front line staff should have been first.
  
  Note the lack of on the number of vaccinated doctors, nurses, police, corrections etc.
  
  Once the numbers are up it will become compulsory for everyone.
  
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  October 12, 2021 10:08am
- Hollyfield
  
  Because the commentary from “experts” over the last week has been about teachers. (Possibly due to being in school holidays and expecting students would be returning next week.)
  
  The Government is merely responding to what they’ve seen on their twitter feed. To include police would mean they actually had to think about it and come up with a plan on their own.
  
  Like the bike bridge – some cyclists rode over the bridge, so the Government announced a bridge was planned.
  
  If the twitter feeds start to say that police should be vaccinated, then the Government would announce that in the next couple of weeks.
  
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  October 12, 2021 10:27am
  - alloytoo
    
    Perhaps twitter people should start saying really ridiculous things……oh wait…..
    
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    October 12, 2021 12:35pm
Flossie

What’s the point of getting everybody vaccinated if we still can’t go anywhere.
Our entire lives are consumed by covid and masks and vaccination news and discussion. So over all this and need to know as we come up to almost two years when are we going to have anything approaching normal again.
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October 12, 2021 8:13am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  You are under the impression that this is all about covid.
  
  This is all about power and control, covid is just the excuse.
  
  You have a 99.7% chance of surviving covid, if you catch it.
  
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  October 12, 2021 10:11am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Depending on your age and condition. Some groups have a 10% chance or more of serious illness and/or death. Some have a 99.998% chance of avoiding serious illness or worse.
    
    Based on UK figures, if you are under 16 and healthy, your survival chance is approximately 100%. Your chance of illness or death from the vaccine, let’s just say that it is not zero.
    
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    October 12, 2021 12:36pm
    - septic skeptic
      
      Approximately zero?
      
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      October 12, 2021 2:44pm
Hollyfield

Ashley Bloomfield was interviewed by Mike Hosking this morning. Several times Mike asked a question that began “do you/the Government understand….” and Ashley’s response was “people understand we have to do this”.

eg (paraphrasing)
Mike: do you understand businesses are struggling?
Ashley: people understand we have to stay closed

The psychology of the way the answer is phrased (without actually answering the question) is interesting – it tells Mike he is the only one with this question and everyone else in the country agrees with what the Government is doing.
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October 12, 2021 8:14am
- ecco
  
  Bloomfield, Ardern and co are clearly being coached in the art of obfuscation. Eventually their luck will run out. Many people already already see through the lies, buck passing and excuses. Hopefully some of the idiots who voted for them last time will see through this too.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:54am
  - cas
    
    Bob McCroskie should do a follow up to his Jessica/Tova piece which covers how many times they repeat we are working on this, this is under consideration etc. All those weasel words which mean nothing.
    
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    October 12, 2021 10:10am
- doggone7
  
  You can see why Mike gets paid the big bucks. A laser.
  
  Mike: do you understand businesses are struggling?
  
  Mike’s dog understands businesses are struggling.
  
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  October 12, 2021 11:22am
WaveyDavey

Stunningly perceptive words from Massey University’s Professor of Property Studies (who knew that was a thing eh?) Graham Squires

“It’s not looking great for first home buyers, over the next one to three years,” he says.

“Even to get back to where they were a year ago house prices would have to fall as much as they have risen over the past year…

They walk amongst us, they vote and they even get to “educate” (hollow laugh) your children

https://www.oneroof.co.nz/news/40294
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October 12, 2021 8:14am
- Durden
  
  Graham “Yogi Berra” Squires !
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:50am
Stuart

The paper talks about covid protests scheduled in a number of towns, but won’t say where and I can’t find any info. Anyone have a link?
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October 12, 2021 8:15am
- bronny1
  
  Yup I’ll be at any protest against mandatory vaccines or passports but my search this am found nothing
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:43am
Gravelroad

Are there any genuinely funny and perceptive cartoonists left in the New Zealand media?
Today on $tuff yet another boring and lazy “cartoon”
reviling Judith Collins – this time by Tom Scott.
Time to put away the pencils, Mr Scott.
It’s just not good enough any more.
In fact, I can’t see the point of msm cartoons at all – except as another avenue for political activists to promote their agendas unchallenged – and get paid for it.
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October 12, 2021 8:15am
- Durden
  
  Garrick Tremain
  https://nopunchespulled.com/2021/10/08/another-splendid-tremain-cartoon/
  
  Sonovamin
  https://i1.wp.com/thebfd.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/cartoon-The-BFD-SonovaMin-Shadow-Foxing.jpg?resize=630%2C630&ssl=1
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:01am
ecco

Glad the police have hauled in that feral who was evading authorities and in hiding. Of course we will never hear any details about this low life. ‘privacy’ rights will be cited and Ardern’s lap dog poodles in the Msm will comply with sweeping this under the carpet. There will probably be little consequence for this person either. It wasn’t their fault, from an abusive background etc etc. The usual story.
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October 12, 2021 8:19am
- kowtow
  
  It will be buried , unlike the Media Pardy treatment of the so called Wanaka couple.
  
  The Wanaka couple had all the right perceived qualities for a 1984 style hate fest ; white , wealthy , and priveliged .
  
  The other couple , no doubt not so much.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:43am
  - MCos
    
    There’s two points there.
    Both the Wanaka and Northland pair misused the system to get out of Auckland and in both cases someone must have dobbed them in, and you can be sure there’ll be others out there who haven’t been caught.
    Both pairs have been hauled over the coals by all and sundry. The Wanaka couple’s names were the subject of social media gossip and confirmed by the woman’s mother.
    
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    October 12, 2021 2:22pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  In fairness, she almost certainly is from an abusive background offering few opportunities for a worthwhile, rewarding career as a productive member of society
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:49am
  - ecco
    
    Not sure what I can do about this Albert. Millions of dollars have been thrown at this problem. It doesn’t seem to matter how much money you throw at it. No amount of money seems to be enough.
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:36am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Millions get thrown, but somehow all of it seems to stick to a very few privileged fingers…
      
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      October 12, 2021 12:39pm
  - kowtow
    
    Tim Barnett’s bill changed all that, or so they said it would.
    
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    October 12, 2021 11:18am
- Paulus
  
  Who were these two women screwing on the trip up north.
  That why they will not tell, or their futures could be in serious jeopardy.
  Remember their trade – legal too.
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:11am
  - alloytoo
    
    Trade may be legal, but not essential (for the purposes of crossing Covid borders)
    
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    October 12, 2021 12:37pm
RW Capitalist

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html

OH Dear
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October 12, 2021 8:21am
- Ed Snack
  
  And just think, they are all skewed to be as positive for Biden as they can.
  
  The narrative is very clearly fraying considerably at more than just the edges. The Media still has considerable power to set and maintain the narrative, but it is not able to cover up rank incompetence for ever, and when revealed, the downside, not for the narrative and the media, can be significant.
  
  If the Hunter Biden laptop corruption evidence ever gets into widespread circulation, that could reduce Biden’s support to single figures, thoroughly deserved too.
  
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  October 12, 2021 12:44pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Jam for Freedom. ‘You can stick your poison up your arse’ Eric Clapton donated them 1000 Pounds.
It should be noted Clapton had two vaccines and had severe reactions to both. He refuses a booster.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/entertainment/other/ridiculed-celebrity-responses-to-coronavirus/ss-AAPn34k?ocid=msedgntp
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October 12, 2021 8:25am
- PhilBest
  
  Worth a listen to what Clapton has to say:
  
  https://youtu.be/4OHmMKrVbNk
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:28am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    He had a pretty hard time
    
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    October 12, 2021 8:56am
    - PhilBest
      
      Goin’ down slow….
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8VKW9oeRH8
      
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      October 12, 2021 10:17am
Benedict Yu

I just got an email from a public service client inviting me to a “wananga” in Wellington. Most of the rest of the email was in English but there was the typical sprinkling of Maori.

I can tell from the context that it is some kind of meeting. But who knows.
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October 12, 2021 8:27am
- lifesgood
  
  Reply to them stating you don’t understand. Could they please resend in English. Let’s all rebel against this nonsense.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:37am
  - kowtow
    
    Yep , all sensible folk should now at the very least take action to not ever use any of this govt mandated bullshit .
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:45am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Or reply in Latin, equally useful…
    
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    October 12, 2021 12:45pm
    - kowtow
      
      Ita vero.
      
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      October 12, 2021 1:42pm
- kowtow
  
  Todays ferald talks of two water deaths .
  
  One a diver but the second was reported to be a “kayaker” , the person’s ‘kayak was recovered’ , but also that ” the person was in a waka”.
  
  Wot rot.
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:47am
  - alloytoo
    
    I understood kayak, but “Waka” could mean a V8 Jetboat (or maybe not even a boat at all)
    
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    October 12, 2021 10:27am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      ‘can also be used to describe any vehicle of conveyance.’
      My Landcruiser is a waka
      
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      October 12, 2021 11:31am
      - Ed Snack
        
        The gondola at Mt Ruapehu is a waka also. Obviously a useful word, “they died while in a waka” means it could have happened anywhere from 30 kilometres out to sea or 2000 metres up a “Maunga”.
        
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        October 12, 2021 12:47pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Ed, almost like ‘Jaspindaspeak’ isn’t it?
        
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        October 12, 2021 1:41pm
- PeeJay
  
  When I read these stories I often think of my interactions with my South African friends, particularly the few Afrikaners I’ve met over the years. I’ve always been so impressed that as I wander towards a group, usually speaking in Afrikaans, almost to a man (or woman) whenever someone non-Afrikaans joins the conversation they seamlessly switch to English, acknowledging it would be rude to continue and exclude that non-Afrikans person. There are the odd standouts that refuse to converse in English – they are the bad ones, the rude and arrogant so and so’s, but mostly they are polite and incredibly well mannered.
  
  The reason I note this is that I increasingly find those that use Maori, or even worse, the horrible Maori-English pidgin that is currently infecting much of NZ (and is a slight on both languages IMHO), are simply rude. They are combining the narcissistic peak-wokeness of ‘I am so with it and down with the cool kids’ attitude (think Tame etc) with the unthinking rudeness of excluding others from the conversation.
  
  The problem is this maori-english pidgin has been growing for years. It used to be limited to the odd email signature around 2005 but it’s now migrated from the email signature to the rest of the email!
  
  Sadly, I think it’s here to stay and will only increase. Maybe I’m just getting old!
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:21am
- Benedict Yu
  
  This same client has sent me a “Karakia Book”. A had to look it up. “A ritual chant or prayer”. They all chant one of these prayers before team meetings and when an external visitor is hosted.
  
  Of course I have no idea what these prayers mean. And as an atheist I resent being told to pray. In a language I don’t understand.
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:44am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    That could be unlawful. NZ has no official religion. Karakia are to be avoided.
    
    Maori activists are reviving their ancient deities and they are not for worship. Spiritual forces do exist and if they are not overtly Christian they are from Satan.
    If Covid is bad evil spirits can be much worse.
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:59am
  - alloytoo
    
    I would suggest you arrive dressed as a pirate with a colander on your head to ward off evil spirits.
    
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    October 12, 2021 10:29am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Pastafarian?
      
      9 1
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      October 12, 2021 11:33am
      - alloytoo
        
        Ra-Man
        
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        October 12, 2021 12:41pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Apparently there are now several pastafarian sects, including the ravioli supremacists and the farfalle exclusionists. No sign yet of a split into egg and non-egg varieties.
        
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        October 12, 2021 12:49pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Which ones are the flying spaghetti monsters?
        
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        October 12, 2021 1:43pm
      - alloytoo
        
        “Which ones are the flying spaghetti monsters?”
        
        All of them.
        
        FSM is not exclusive all may be touched by his noodly goodness.
        
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        October 12, 2021 1:57pm
  - Ehlana
    
    This is where I wish I had a second language myself. I could go back to them and express my appreciation for their understanding of multi-culturalism and my willingness to follow their cultural introductory practices with my own … I wonder what ridiculous poses they would adopt or phrases they would spout to be accommodating?
    
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    October 12, 2021 10:42am
    - alloytoo
      
      You don’t actually have to have mastery of the language, just add “Goodbye” or some nonsense benediction to your signature in whatever language you choose.
      
      The results are illuminating.
      
      (Just be prepared to admit your ignorance when asked by a native speaker of said language)
      
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      October 12, 2021 12:45pm
  - lifesgood
    
    Once again, send it back stating why. Keep rebelling!
    
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    October 12, 2021 11:03am
  - PeeJay
    
    One of my friends who worked in council got out of all that stuff by proclaiming he was muslim and it would be an affront to his religious beliefs. Of course he was a complete atheist but felt management didn’t need to know this. Seemed to work.
    
    Not sure it would work if one were of a pale complexion or if the religion was one of the other abrahamic faiths though!
    
    One of my other friends used to read her iPad at these sessions and do real, actual work. When informed by her manager that she was being rude she would respond that they started it by making them sit through something she didn’t understand with no translation provided. Thought that was brilliant!
    
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    October 12, 2021 12:21pm
Durden

The Government has crossed the Rubicon by saying No jab – no Job despite Jacinda’s assurances last year.

I now support Sir Bob Jones’ call for a No Jab – No Dole policy to improve Maori uptake of vaccinations. Otherwise it is reverse racism.

I would also go a step further and support a No Jab – No Super policy.

https://nopunchespulled.com/2021/10/06/no-jab-no-job-futility/
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October 12, 2021 8:28am
- Ra Henare
  
  Why no jab no super?
  The most vulnerable age group!
  
  No jab could be said to be a great way to reduce the Superannuation & associated healthcare cost burden.
  
  For Information.
  From a study by Otago Uni. Average health care costs for Age group 75-80, approx &10,000 pa. That does not include rest home subsidies (another $12,000). Now add in all the costs from Goldcard, rates rebates etc etc
  Oh and the Super itself ruffly $25,000 pa.
  ie Total north of $50K a year.
  
  So let us old buggars decide, death & glory, or waiting for Goddo. 🙂
  Oh hang on, wasnt it us oldies that were staunchly fighting for freedoms in our youth???
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:13am
  - Ehlana
    
    Ra, I’m not sure there are that many WWII veterans left. If you were 20 in 1945, you were born in 1925, which makes you 96 this year.
    Most of our current super annuitants would have been too young to fight, or are baby boomers born after the war.
    
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    October 12, 2021 1:45pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The more of us old bastards that die is beneficial to the Govt, but then the left are no good with numbers are they?
    
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    October 12, 2021 1:47pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Unlawful–we have a right to make our own decision.
  The vaccine companies don’t allow anyone to sue for any harm they may cause. Why should we take all the risk of their profit making?
  
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  October 12, 2021 10:02am
  - cmm
    
    We cannot really even make our own decisions properly because we are denied the basic information required to have informed consent.
    
    One of the most important factors is antibody testing. The suppression of this information is highly problematic.
    
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    October 12, 2021 10:47am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      As is the suppression of the PCR replication number. The WHO says that is not to exceed 25 and each use requires informed consent. They downgraded it publicly as at 35X it produced 97% false positives.
      
      If we have not changed the testing to the lower rate we could be causing a mirage which the increased testing itself has created.
      Is there anyone actually supervising?
      
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      October 12, 2021 12:55pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Not just vaccine companies. Govt, Govt Departments, Importers and ACC.
    ACC, fully covered until you make a claim – yes they have crossed my path
    
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    October 12, 2021 11:37am
Southern man

Here’s a cunning plan. The government is quick to mandate compulsory jabs for health workers and educators which makes sense. Why doesn’t it do the same for those receiving social welfare. No jab no dole. That should up the vaccination rates.
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October 12, 2021 8:37am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Nope, the bros might not vote Labour if that was enforced
  
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  October 12, 2021 8:57am
- Flossie
  
  I was reading about the very low rate of immunised prisoners. Surely that is a section of society (bad choice of word there?) that definitely ought to be vaccinated. I assume they live in fairly close quarters, and we are paying their keep.
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:40am
  - alloytoo
    
    Poor air quality I would think.
    
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    October 12, 2021 12:46pm
- MCos
  
  It’ll be hard work to check up on all those companies who apply for the wage subsidy.
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:50am
- cas
  
  Henare said the other day, in response to Ryan Bridge I think, that they hadn’t thought about that.
  
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  October 12, 2021 10:07am
- Fletch
  
  Because there’s no human contact? It just gets put in their account.
  
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  October 12, 2021 10:57am
krazykiwi

Here’s one to stash away:

Natural Immunity and Covid-19: Twenty-Nine Scientific Studies to Share with Employers, Health Officials, and Politicians

From the beginning of the March 2020 lockdowns for the SARS-CoV-2 virus, the subject of natural immunity (also called post-infection immunity) has been neglected. Once the vaccination became widely available, what began with near silence at the beginning turned nearly into a complete blackout of the topic.

Even now, there is an absence of open discussion, presumably in the interests of promoting universal vaccination and required documentation of such vaccination as a condition of participating in public life and even the jobs marketplace. Still, the science exists. Many studies exist. Their authors deserve credit, recognition, and to have their voices heard.

These studies demonstrate what was and is already known: natural immunity for a SARS-type virus is robust, long-lasting, and broadly effective even in the case of mutations, generally more so than vaccines. In fact, a major contribution of 20th-century science has been to expand upon and further elucidate this principle that has been known since the ancient world. Every expert presumably knew this long before the current debates. The effort to pretend otherwise is a scientific scandal of the highest order, especially because the continued neglect of the topic is affecting the rights and freedoms of billions of people.

People who have contracted the virus and recovered deserve recognition. For that matter, people who prefer an exposure risk to the virus in order to gain robust immunity deserve the freedom to make that choice. The realization that natural immunity – which pertains now to perhaps half of the US population and billions around the world – is effective in providing protection should have a dramatic effect on vaccine mandates.
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October 12, 2021 8:48am
- Fletch
  
  If you think about it, it makes sense. Vaccination is just the deliberate exposure of a person to the virus (albeit attenuated) beforehand, so the body gets a taste of what it should be on the lookout for. It’s really no different, in terms of immunity, to being exposed to the virus itself.
  
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  October 12, 2021 10:56am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Yes, except vaccination has been changed from a medical procedure under the control of the recipient, into a political tool under the control of the ruling elite. The bio/medical elements are largely irrelevant now.
    
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    October 12, 2021 11:51am
  - mawm
    
    This is not true for the Pfizer inoculation. They have taken a very small portion of the viral genome and this is what they expose your immune system to. Natural immunity is broad and when the virus mutates it is only a small change in the genome that occurs. If it is in the spike protein a “vaccine” resistant mutant is the result.
    
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    October 12, 2021 7:49pm
Inandout

Mike the Merciless on ZB doesn’t believe we will reach 90% vaccination largely because certain sections of society won’t comply and no government will touch those sections.
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October 12, 2021 8:53am
- kowtow
  
  Yeah , but the problem , if it’s a problem isn’t the folk who don’t / won’t get the experimental dose .
  
  The problem is the gurnermint either not setting a target or setting it too high.
  
  It’s an arbitrary figure anyway that seems to have been set by the ‘experts” at the editorial desk of the herald .
  
  The answer is literally as simple as ; set a date for full reopening and normalisation.
  
  Say 1 Nov .
  
  There can be no excuses for not getting vaxxed , if that is your choice.
  
  Now it’s up to the govt to actually take the lead.
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:43am
  - alloytoo
    
    I would disagree,
    
    I would wait a wee bit longer before opening the borders for warmer December weather.
    
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    October 12, 2021 12:50pm
Stu2

There is an issue in how the vaccination percentages are being caclulated

MoH is using their Health Service User (HSU) 2020 population dataset for the calculation.

“The Health Service User population estimate counts the number of people who received health services in a given year. Someone is counted in the population if their associated National Health Index (NHI) number received public health services; or was enrolled with a primary health organisation (PHO)”

There is far more material in the weekly MoH spreadsheet explaining why they are using it, and its strengths and weaknesses,

The main issue is that it doesn’t capture everyone normally resident. And the data is 2020, but we have had popultion griowth since then.

The latest Stats resident population dataset (June 2021) is quite a lot higher.

HSU NZ population 5,000,491
Stats 5,122,600 which is 2.44% greater

And 12+ year olds :
HSU 4,209,057
Stats 4,347.090

So if we hit 90% double vaxx 12+ year olds according to MoH then we will actually be at 87.1%

Anyone see a problem?
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October 12, 2021 9:16am
Yvette

Woman who travelled to Northland with Covid case is symptomatic – Bloomfield
Bloomfield said there was “plenty of speculation” about why the pair are being uncooperative, but he said he doesn’t know why. “These people have their reasons, our teams are very good at interviewing, building trust and if necessary using third parties to try and glean this information, so we’ll just keep using every channel we can. “We really do want to get this specific information about where they were and who they were with.”
https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/10/11/woman-who-travelled-to-northland-with-covid-case-is-symptomatic-bloomfield/

If, through contract tracing or epidemiological link, it is determined any death can be related to the touring of Northland by these two women, can they be charged with personslaughter – premeditated, by choosing not to give information – or under the Terrorism Act? Very silly question? – or is it not.
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October 12, 2021 9:20am
Benedict Yu

I just had a cafe charge me a 2 percent surcharge for using a DEBIT card. Never seen that before. They had a sign. “Surcharge for using all credit and debit cards” totally odd.
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October 12, 2021 9:24am
- cmm
  
  It depends on the debit card.
  
  Visa/Mastercard debit cards with Paywave etc are processed through the credit card system handling mechanism so the shop have to pay that slice the same as for credit cards.
  
  If you were using the old track-in-the-crack style card then those should not be costing the vendor that credit card slice.
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:30am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Thanks for that. Just never seen it before.
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:33am
  - PeeJay
    
    Think the banks waived the paywave processing charges during the initial covid lockdown in 2020 – seen as a good idea at the time to reduce surface contact and allowed the banks some good PR. Since then, I think they’ve been slow to reintroduce the charges but they will be coming, especially for smaller retailers that can’t absorb the costs.
    
    Often see smaller stores specifically state ‘no paywave’ for this very reason.
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:36am
  - kowtow
    
    If those two Northland border buster birds had used “track in the crack” style of doing their business the Fuzz coulda got em sooner.
    
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    October 12, 2021 9:38am
- Ed Snack
  
  Quite common in many areas now. Just as an example, if you buy a ticket with AirNZ they apply a surcharge to credit card transactions. And quite a few other online shops do the same.
  
  Never come across a surcharge at a Cafe before, but some won’t take credit cards at all to avoid the surcharge issue.
  
  Quite used to using Applepay myself, except that masks mean that either I have to remove the mask for Face ID or use my passcode every time.
  
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  October 12, 2021 12:55pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    No credit cards for Lotto either at the shop. But online you can top up with a credit card.
    Stupid
    
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    October 12, 2021 1:54pm
NZisleadbyaCommunist

Can someone explain how a leftest newsite can have all of the most respected comments bashing labour…. Yet Labour stays high in the polls?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/126641512/when-straight-talk-was-needed-jacinda-wasnt-there?
I don’t want to make a Donald trump suggestion, but…..
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October 12, 2021 9:26am
- Ed Snack
  
  The narrative has a strong hold on some segments of the population. I was recently abused for not wearing a mask while walking outside in a park, and coming possibly marginally within 2 metres of someone on a narrow path.
  
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  October 12, 2021 12:58pm
Maggie Pie

“So, what are you in for?”

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1446572022138654728
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October 12, 2021 9:29am
Aquataur

It is now clear that we are being held hostage, by a combination of politicians and Maori/gangs

Ash was quite clear on Hoskings this morning that restrictions(Lockdowns) would remain until at least 90% of the eligible population was vaccinated, ACROSS ALL DEMOGRAPHICS.

This is presumably because we have a demographic who because of poor lifestyle choices and/or genetics, are likely to overwhelm the hospital system. You would think they would be at the fore of being vaccinated, but no, they are the laggards and are keeping the rest of us (Pakeha, Asian and Pasifica) who are on track for reaching 90% locked up.

Why should and do we tolerate this? The rest of us are losing their jobs and livelihoods because of this demographic.

John Key was absolutely right – set a date and open up
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October 12, 2021 9:41am
- Stu2
  
  If we hit 90% except for young maori and the govt dithers, then Tamaki’s protest event will be dwarfed.
  
  And the media and social media will go feral.
  
  Expect the govt to dither for a day ot two tops.
  
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  October 12, 2021 12:40pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Common sense is not a gift, it’s a punishment, because you have to deal with everyone who doesn’t have it
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October 12, 2021 9:42am
- kowtow
  
  And it’s no longer common.
  
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  October 12, 2021 10:15am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    It’s mostly illegal now.
    
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    October 12, 2021 5:45pm
rangitoto

USS Connecticut, one of only three Seawolf class attack subs, suffers collision with unknown object in the South China sea. Some crew injured. Sub has returned to Guam under its own power for damage assessment.

https://news.usni.org/2021/10/07/breaking-attack-submarine-uss-connecticut-suffers-underwater-in-pacific
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October 12, 2021 9:53am
- Ed Snack
  
  Probably rammed a large whale, or a Chinese attack sub.
  
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  October 12, 2021 12:59pm
- JibberJabber
  
  Maybe a Whale performed that classic Soviet-era trick called the Crazy Ivan?
  
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  October 12, 2021 1:30pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Sure that is not Babylon Bee? Captain …..
  
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  October 12, 2021 1:59pm
Liberal Cliche

A family member in the health sector and 2 co-workers handed in their resignation today.

Keep it up vaxtards, you’re crashing this system with no survivors.
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October 12, 2021 10:02am
- Matt Long
  
  A family member of mine is also faced with having to quit her remedial work and water therapy for stroke victims etc. this month with no one to step in for their care, it’s ugly blackmail from the Ardern government.
  
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  October 12, 2021 12:34pm
- kris
  
  And there will be more to come.
  
  Its nothing to do with patient safety, because we have already seen vaxxed nurses getting infections in the community. If those infections are asymptomatic (which some will be), then it will be passed on to patients or other staff, its just a matter of time.
  If the govt actually cared about patient safety, the appropriate mandate would be for staff to have a non-invasive rapid test, every shift, to find the asymptomatic “cases”.
  
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  October 12, 2021 2:37pm
Yvette

Covid-19: First batch of vaccines given in NZ, with 25 health workers getting jabs
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300234379/covid19-first-batch-of-vaccines-given-in-nz-with-25-health-workers-getting-jabs February 19, 2021

Giving 6 weeks between doses and 2 weeks after the second to be fully vaccinated, takes these first people to Friday, 16 April 2021 – 179 days or 5 months, 26 days

School and early learning staff and support people who have contact with children and students to be fully vaccinated by 1 January, 2022, and to receive their first dose by 15 November
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/mandatory-vaccination-two-workforces

So, by 1 January, 2022, those first fully vaccinated (16 April 2021) will be 260 days from that date, or 8 months, 16 days – well past the vaccination efficacy Best By Date
Will vaccination certificates come with Best By Dates?.

(… for infections with a high viral load, the effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine went down to 90 per cent a month after taking the second dose, to 85 per cent after two months and 78 per cent after three)
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October 12, 2021 10:03am
- Liberal Cliche
  
  Yes like Israel you are considered “unvaxed” until your third shot.
  
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  October 12, 2021 11:41am
  - kowtow
    
    Yep , we really do live in an Orwellian dystopia.
    
    Right now “fully jabbed” in NZ is 2.
    
    That will soon change to 3 .
    
    Winston Smith very busy at the Ministry of Truth keeping up with it all.
    
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    October 12, 2021 12:39pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Global Warming hoax. We are being played by these shysters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh9wJJ_HZCg
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October 12, 2021 10:11am
krazykiwi

The 4th MIQ Lottery in Human Misery is underway.

2900 rooms over Nov, Dec, Jan.

My daughter and son-in-law have missed out again.

Despite what the Government says, disheartened kiwis abroad are giving up hope of returning to their home country, those whose passport declares: –

“The Governor-General in the Realm of the New Zealand requests in the name of Her Majesty The Queen all whom it may concern to allow the holder to pass without delay or hinderance and in case of need to give all lawful assistance and protection”
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October 12, 2021 10:17am
- Charmaine Hawke
  
  As have my clients who are stuck in the UK with a dying father, they need to get home but are being denied this.
  They have been double jabbed as per the PM’s request so let them in. MIQ is inhumane
  
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  October 12, 2021 10:32am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Donate substantially to Labour, and make sure they know. That should work…
    
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    October 12, 2021 1:01pm
- PeeJay
  
  As we get towards the second year of this shambles, perhaps someone will be willing to challenge the NZ government on this.
  
  The restrictions on entry to NZ Citizens, whether directly through the government or by proxy where the airline refuses carriage unless you have a MIQ booking, is clearly incompatible with the Bill of Rights.
  
  Arguable as to whether the exclusion is in violation of the Bill of Rights, specifically Section 18(2), which states, “Every New Zealand citizen has the right to enter New Zealand”.
  
  I remember reading at the time the initial exclusion measures were introduced that while this was on the surface incompatible with the Bill of Rights, it was acceptable on a short term measure – almost a ‘greater good’ argument, public health, greater responsibility to kiwi’s already in NZ etc.
  
  As recent commentary, including from the Podium of Truth (or sole Truth!) has moved from restrictions being short term to long term, I’m actually surprised this has not been challenged legally as it would seem to be a pretty clear breach of the Bill of Rights, and no longer justifiable as a short term aberration.
  
  One thing for it to be a temporary restriction on entry, quite another to be a long term restriction on the fundamental rights of New Zealand citizens to reside in New Zealand.
  
  Perhaps the legal eagles on here could explain why the restriction on entry to NZ hasn’t been challenged yet?
  
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  October 12, 2021 10:51am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Check this out: https://homepaddock.wordpress.com/2021/10/09/grounded-kiwis-take-govt-to-court/
    
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    October 12, 2021 11:55am
    - PeeJay
      
      Thanks for the link – wish them well with their action and hope it succeeds.
      
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      October 12, 2021 12:29pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The solution is very simple, but too simple for these Labour idiots. Isolate at your own home/residence wearing an ankle bracelet with a 100 meter geofence.
    But see, Labour did not think of this and no way will they use someone else’s clever idea – morons
    
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    October 12, 2021 2:05pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  MIQ for returning kiwis is a complete waste of time now that elimination has been abandoned. Covid is all through south auckland, so may as well let all kiwis in and put em in Air BnB’s in Auckland until they test clear (if they want to travel outside of Auckland).
  
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  October 12, 2021 1:44pm
Yvette

By ending Covid elimination, Jacinda Ardern once again fails to turn compassion into policy – Morgan Godfery
Without a dramatic change in New Zealand’s vaccination rates, Covid-19 risks becoming a disease for brown people [1]

But probably still a disease for many elderly and medically-compromised ‘white’ people as collateral damage …
_____________
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2021/oct/05/by-ending-covid-elimination-jacinda-ardern-once-again-fails-to-turn-compassion-into-policy October 5, 2021
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October 12, 2021 10:21am
Aunty

Interesting that today I have tried to post several comments to the NZ Herald’s comment section in response to articles written by Simon Wilson and Liam Dann.

I framed comments to Dann’s piece about the neglect of Auckland businesses by the government’s Covid response, correctly I might add, in the context of socialists not been much interested in the plight of business. And I also raised concerns about the amount of debt and money printing going on which allows them to neglect business. And in Wilson’s piece, I took issue with his typically perverse way of seeing the world.

Nothing rude, nothing insulting but neither of my comments has been published. lol

Now, this is nothing of consequence in and of itself, but I have noticed whenever I post comments to the Herald they are almost always posted, except if I criticise the Government for being too socialist or frame the debate of the moment in the context of the failures or inevitable outcomes of socialist/ social progressive thought and practices.

Now I don’t know who in the Herald is responsible for moderating the comments section – is it the journalist who wrote the piece or somebody else – and deciding on what gets posted and what doesn’t, but my suspicion is that if it is not the author of the piece, then it is somebody (or an editorial policy) who is strongly left-wing and entrenched in a position of riding shotgun for social progressive ideology. So while you could say that neoliberalism is shit, and have that posted, minus the four-letter word, you could not say the same about neo-Marxism which is apparently beyond reproach.

I would be intrigued to know what the experience of others is?

And just for the record, I rate neither Liam Dann nor Simon Wilson as journalists. I think both are very poor at what they do and the Herald could do an awful lot better.
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October 12, 2021 10:36am
- Gravelroad
  
  @Aunty-
  Many commenters on here regularly suggest that sizeable chunks of the msm are being paid by the Labour Party to manipulate the news and comments. This in order to shield their people and policies from any perceived damaging questioning or backlash -and to maintain the iconic ruler status of Ms Ardern.
  As a former newspaper reporter and with 40plus years as a writer in other settings, I have been reluctant to believe that our msm has sold out their principles to the current regime.
  But I do believe it now.
  Absolutely.
  
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  October 12, 2021 12:11pm
  - Matt Long
    
    Even 10 years when I was writing opinion pieces for the Northern Advocate of the Herald stable, anything that was critical of Greenpeace wouldn’t see the light of day; the papers have an agenda.
    
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    October 12, 2021 12:51pm
- BAM
  
  Whoever pays the bills writes the stories
  
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  October 12, 2021 12:35pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The children are in charge
  
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  October 12, 2021 2:06pm
graham

Karawhiua is the Covid campaign aimed at Maori communities and led by the Ministry for Maori Development, co-delivered by the Health Promotion Agency, and supported by the Ministry of Health.

https://karawhiua.nz/

Ever since I first checked it out, months ago, it has had a VERY clear message – “Getting vaccinated is your choice“. Under the FAQs is this one:

Do I have to get the vaccine?

In Aotearoa, most people can choose if they want to have the COVID-19 vaccine. You will not receive a fine if you don’t get it.

Some particular jobs, including those working at the border, require vaccination to keep employees safe. Most employers cannot require their staff to be vaccinated.

I wonder if the people behind Karawhiua might be starting to regret putting that message on the front page?
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October 12, 2021 10:37am
Fletch

Wait, what? I probably missed this, but..

Hospitality NZ chief executive Julie White said its members can’t afford to run the vaccine certificate system, bear the brunt of public antagonism and risk breaking the law.

It had advised the Government through a submission on Thursday that a law was needed to exempt companies from the Bill of Rights, Privacy Act and Human Rights Act.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/10/09/vaccine-certificates-need-legal-backing-hospitality-nz/

So, the hospitality industry wants the govt to mandate vaccine passport laws that basically override all lawful human rights… ?
Are they kidding?
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October 12, 2021 10:42am
- alloytoo
  
  Does the government want the hospitality industry breach peoples rights?
  
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  October 12, 2021 12:56pm
- Ehlana
  
  I think what they are probably getting at Fletch is that a requirement that you prove vaccination before being allowed entry would appear to conflict with the Bill of Rights, Privacy Act and Human Rights Act.
  
  So if the government wants to force their members (hospitality businesses) to enforce such a mandate, it will need to pass a law that exempts them from complying with those Acts.
  
  They are also right in pointing out that enforcing those rules requires additional resources for the business and has a strong likelihood of antagonising at least some members of the public.
  
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  October 12, 2021 1:53pm
  - Fletch
    
    Exactly. They want the govt to pass a law to allow them to trample over those laws and human rights with impunity. The Russian authorities tried it and there was a slap back by the people (both vaxxed and unvaxxed) so they had to ditch it.
    
    https://www.conservativeworldnews.com/how-russian-citizens-crushed-moscows-dumb-vaccine-passports-in-just-3-weeks/
    
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    October 12, 2021 2:21pm
cmm

So being pursued is now optional. Just give it welly and the cops will go home.

Only 22% of fleeing drivers are now pursued vs 97% up to 2019.

When are the cops going to be issued nerf guns in case they hurt people?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/126651272/less-than-a-quarter-of-fleeing-drivers-pursued-this-year-after-policy-change
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October 12, 2021 10:44am
- alloytoo
  
  Can I choose not to be pursued?
  
  Can we get a bumper sticker advising that we’ve opted out of police pursuits?
  
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  October 12, 2021 12:57pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    “I love Coster” sticker should do it
    
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    October 12, 2021 2:08pm
curry4me

https://www.bitchute.com/video/K_CZ5QCtLHY/

Is a Mass Vax Protest Crippling the Airline Industry?

Southwest airlines are in absolute disarray with over 2,000 cancelled flights and they’re blaming …..the weather! And the mainstream media is going along with the excuse! In this video, we’re going to take a look at the latest regarding the massive disruptions for Southwest passengers, we’re going to see why so many believe that this was due to mass sickout staged by pilots protesting Southwest’s vax mandates, and stick with me to the very end of this video when I’ll reveal what’s the REAL takeaway from these mass cancellations. [9:02]
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October 12, 2021 10:44am
curry4me

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/10/has_the_white_house_dumped_kamala.html

Has the WH dumped Quemala?

As Joe Biden’s public approval tanks in the polls, his sidekick Kamala Harris is also looking pretty wretched.
She underwent ‘repackaging’ from swamp consultants who specialize in “crisis messaging,” to very miserable results as she posed for videos with kids, coming off phonier than ever.
And more important, she may have been frozen out of all serious decision-making as an obviously giggling lightweight.
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October 12, 2021 10:44am
- alloytoo
  
  I believe she was chosen entirely for her colour and gender.
  
  350 million Americans and they couldn’t find someone likable.
  
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  October 12, 2021 12:59pm
  - curry4me
    
    allytoo: I guess it was either her, or Pochahontas.
    
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    October 12, 2021 7:21pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Diversity kids in a recent release attempt to humanise Kamala were in fact paid actors. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10081977/Kamala-Harris-hired-child-actors-widely-mocked-NASA-space-video.html
  
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  October 12, 2021 1:31pm
  - curry4me
    
    UrbanNeocolonialist: I guess actors would be ablre to adequetely control the eyeroll impulse?
    
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    October 12, 2021 7:23pm
Maggie Pie

Lv3 ALERT

Mt Roskill Takeaway identified as ‘location of interest’…..7 TIMES in past week!!

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1447472187057782785

Unless considered essential, travel to these areas should be avoided.
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October 12, 2021 10:49am
- Aunty
  
  Hey! Two ton Tony has to eat!
  
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  October 12, 2021 11:01am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Oi! That’s a bit close to the bone 😀
    
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    October 12, 2021 12:08pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Knew that was coming
      
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      October 12, 2021 2:12pm
- cmm
  
  Thanks for the warning MP. I’ve managed to avoid Mt Roskill since 1993.
  
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  October 12, 2021 11:27am
NoFax

It is quite clear that Ardern is still pursuing an elimination strategy. It appears that she thinks she can eliminate Covid when no one else in the world has or is attempting.

Remember, she never said she was abandoning the strategy only the media said that. And now we have an enlarge group of experts (as noted above) saying we must eliminate it or everyone will be so sick society will break down.

Of course this cabal of “experts” has no answer when we look at other countries such as the UK, Denmark, Norway etc. What makes us so special that we can’t live with Covid whereas other countries can.

We will be sitting in some form of lockdown now for months to come in an increasingly out of touch attempt to eliminate Covid. I have been saying that the Government needs to pivot its language but has consistently failed to do so. Under this approach we will be in some form of lockdown forever.
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October 12, 2021 11:01am
- Stu2
  
  Don’t think so, she would have gone back to level 4 if elimination was still the main goal.
  
  Level 3 has at least got some of the Auckland economy moving, but at the cost of cases. They will probably increase.
  
  The rest of this week will make that clearer. We are not learning very much on what the daily cases are and the chance they will increase.
  
  90% vaccination could happen within 2 months, followed by opening up.
  
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  October 12, 2021 11:36am
  - Cinematic
    
    ‘Level 3 has got Auckland moving but at the cost of cases’. Back to front thinking.
    
    The continuing unprecedented restriction of freedom is continuing to wreak havoc on the economy, families and society. There have been a few cases.
    
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    October 12, 2021 1:19pm
    - Stu2
      
      This was in the context of whether or not elimination is still the goal.
      
      Level 3 looked incompatible with elimination and that seems to have been borne out by the cases. You can’t stay at 30, 40 or 50 a day and also hope for elimination.
      
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      October 12, 2021 1:47pm
  - NoFax
    
    The move to level 3 was purely political as most Aucklanders were getting very angsty. Note there was difference in cases between 3 and 4.
    
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    October 12, 2021 1:49pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Well, if you are going to fail then fail big. Too bad we all have to suffer.
  
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  October 12, 2021 11:47am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Under socialism we are all equally miserable
    
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    October 12, 2021 2:15pm
- Cinematic
  
  Yes and Baker, Jackson et al would fully support this.
  
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  October 12, 2021 12:00pm
  - all true
    
    These Professors are bluntly 3rd class and I am not surprised if they blow into the same horn as the Show Pony, their incomes is paid by the Government (Taxpayer).
    
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    October 12, 2021 12:24pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The private sector would never employ them, just saying
      
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      October 12, 2021 2:14pm
- kowtow
  
  ” What makes us so special that we can’t live with Covid whereas other countries can.”
  
  What makes us so special is we have St Cindy of the Kindy and she can do it !
  
  And by doing it you get an absolute parliamentary majority , which was also considered impossible .
  
  She might actually believe she can go for broke on this thing and then with a second term unfettered can continue to literally transform NZ like she said she wanted to ……
  
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  October 12, 2021 12:20pm
- PeeJay
  
  I said it yesterday. Abandoning elimination will lead to deaths – it’s unavoidable. We could get lucky through environmental conditions (low population density) and have a rate of around 10 per week, or it could be anywhere from 20 to 70 per week or even higher. Nobody really knows the exact number, but there will be some deaths.
  
  Can anyone, honestly see Ardern accepting 10 to 70 people dying of/with covid every week? It would destroy her popularity and that is the sole thing keeping Labour at the upper end of the opinion polls. When covid gets going, and we start reporting deaths, they will go back to their only approach and reintroduce lockdowns. It’s the only thing they know.
  
  Now obviously there will be spin, there will be rebranding and so on but I honestly believe the basic premise will come to pass. Ardern will not be willing to have ‘blood on her hands’ and for that reason, I still think elimination, and all that it entails, is still her ‘go to’ when the proverbial hits the fan.
  
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  October 12, 2021 12:43pm
  - NoFax
    
    PeeJay – Unfortunately, I think you are right. People have lost perspective and they are only interested in 1 form of illness and death.
    
    NZ has about 35,000 deaths a year – that’s about 95 a day. I have not seen the PM get up and say each one is a tragedy and condolences to the family. 1 or 2 deaths a day from Covid – you wouldn’t notice it.
    
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    October 12, 2021 1:51pm
kowtow

Anyone else following the ridiculous Cultural Revolution Red Guard treatment of Prof Bright Sheng in Michigan , unpersoned for showing 1965 version of Shakespeare’s Othello which has the serious crime of Lawrence Olivier in ………blackface!

https://www.michigandaily.com/news/academics/following-blackface-incident-professor-bright-sheng-takes-step-back-from-teaching-smtd-composition-course/

Just as well the good prof didn’t use the 1978 BBC one where Anthony Hopkins was brown face .

If we’re to be consistent over these Cultural Revolution practices then Shakespeare , the BBC and all Anthony hopkins products must be banned .
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October 12, 2021 11:15am
- alloytoo
  
  Ah Oliver’s Othello a true classic.
  
  I’m surprised they were allowed to watch Shakespeare at all.
  
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  October 12, 2021 1:02pm
- Jack5
  
  Meanwhile at Oxford University, Oriel College has met Woke statue fellers half way.
  
  The College has installed a plaque next to a statue of Cecil Rhodes, describing him as “committed British colonialist” who exploited the “peoples of southern Africa”.
  
  The Oxford statue was the target of the Rhodes Must Fall protest movement, which originated in Cape Town and argues Rhodes is a symbol of colonialism.
  
  The majority of members of a commission set up last year to discuss the statue were in favour of removing it.
  
  A report from the Guardian includes:
  
  In Oxford on Monday afternoon [early today, NZ time] , passersby were uncomfortable with talking about the plaque, the statue and the issues surrounding it. Most of those who did comment would not give their names, and none would be photographed. Many spoke of the fear of repercussions, from the far right, the media or even from the university authorities, if their opinions were connected to their names.
  
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  October 12, 2021 1:05pm
  - kowtow
    
    When people are so afraid on university campus then times are truly bad , but that’s the Red Guards and the effect of this Cultural Revolution.
    
    ps “far right ” my arse , they’re shit scared of their Comrade fellow students .
    
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    October 12, 2021 1:39pm
Jack5

North Korea has an “army” of 6,000 skilled hackers, says a high-level North Korean defector in a BBC interview (first link below).

This is live, true James Bond stuff.

The hackers are bright students selected at Moranbong University and given six years of special training.

This will be the place of origin, too, of the North Korean pop music team that gets millions of “hits” on Youtube – the all-female Moranbong Band. It uses lots of electronic gear, electric violins and cellos as well as guitars and mixers. Plus orchestrated cheers, North Korean style.

North Korean intelligence colonel’s interview –

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58838834

North Korea’s pop band (popular on internet):

https://youtu.be/ycdDHP7QfWo
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October 12, 2021 11:37am
- Jack5
  
  Whoops, little chance of getting much non-Covid discussion today.
  
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  October 12, 2021 1:09pm
Tony Stuart

A tweet from Michael Morrah from Newshub that will surprise no one, but should be of concern to everyone:

Michael Morrah @MichaelMorrah

The travelling companion of the Northland case, who was found by police last night, has now tested positive for COVID-19 and has been taken to an MIQ facility. 18 contacts have been identified as associated with the first #Northland case.
@NewshubNZ #Covid_19

https://twitter.com/MichaelMorrah/status/1447692181037207553

And as if that wasn’t worrying enough, Newstalk ZB Wellington reporter Katrina Bennett has just reported that a person in Wellington is a contact of one of the two Northland women, has been tested and is in isolation awaiting their test result.

We would be naive if we believed that these two women, positive for Covid for a few days in the case of the first one and a week in the case of the second, haven’t passed the Delta virus on.
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October 12, 2021 12:02pm
- PeeJay
  
  No surprise that she has tested positive and no surprise that Morrah is breaking the story.
  
  Morrah is one of the very few in the media that deserve the title journalist. He really seems to get stuck in and seems relatively above politics and just focuses on the story like the good old bloodhound journalists of yesteryear. Long may it continue.
  
  Tragedy is there are now so few of his ilk left in the media.
  
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  October 12, 2021 12:33pm
  - BeaB
    
    So much easier in the old days when they just passed on herpes and syphilis.
    
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    October 12, 2021 2:48pm
- Cinematic
  
  I hope they have. Only Delta can rid us of this covid totalitarianism. Seems counter intuitive but it’s true.
  
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  October 12, 2021 1:15pm
  - kowtow
    
    You think.
    
    And then along comes epsilon , zeta, eta and each time it’ll be “different” and the gurnermunt will tighten its grip on our throats even more .
    
    For the good of the people.
    
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    October 12, 2021 1:36pm
- krazykiwi
  
  I’m really not that concerned, Tony. Regardless of who does what, or when, or who fails to do this or that … we are all going to be exposed to this pathogen.
  
  My question to the vaccinated: Would you rather this exposure was a month after getting your second jab, or 6-12 months after?
  
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  October 12, 2021 7:10pm
Sir Cullen's Sidekick

“Auckland business feels marginalised and frustrated by lack of Government support” – die you morons. You voted for this gummit big time. Every opinion poll you voted Labour party as a better manager of economy than National. Now you feel marginalised and frustrated. Close down. No f**king sympathy here.
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October 12, 2021 12:12pm
- Lance
  
  I didn’t
  
  Your statements make about as much sense as EVERYONE in NZ worships Cindy and have given her carte blanche to implement her far left policies unopposed.
  
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  October 12, 2021 2:25pm
Chuck Bird

It is amazing how so-called experts with degrees can be so lacking in common sense. There is no way we will get to 90% let alone 95%. I am sure Hosking will win his bet with Nash of a good case of red wine.

Covid 19 Delta outbreak: NZ needs 95% vax rate before even thinking of Xmas freedom – top expert

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-nz-needs-95-vax-rate-before-even-thinking-of-xmas-freedom-top-expert/YUL7WMDLC356GT4VGX3L7YZN6M/
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October 12, 2021 12:39pm
- lifesgood
  
  Yep, he’ll win the bet but I bet Nash’s idea of good wine isn’t the same as Hosking’s.
  
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  October 12, 2021 12:59pm
- graham
  
  I think the major problem with these experts is that they are experts in one very specific field. And that one very specific field is all they think about when making their pronouncements and giving advice.
  
  So an epidemiologist will only consider the issues at hand from an epidemiological viewpoint. He (or she) will give no consideration whatsoever to other factors such as struggling businesses, the economy, people’s overall well-being, the struggle to pay the mortgage, hospital appointments being postponed, children unable to return to school, those people who can’t work from home as we are so casually instructed to do …
  
  None of these things matter to them. Problem is, they matter to everybody else but we’re not the ones that have the PM’s ear.
  
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  October 12, 2021 1:05pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Another thing they do not think of is human behaviour. I have had two jabs like the majority of the population. However, if you follow social media there are enough people who are anti-vax because of something they have read on the internet. This applies in NZ and other countries. No country has reached 90% although a few have come close like Ireland.
    
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    October 12, 2021 1:37pm
    - Liberal Cliche
      
      You’re pro-vax because of something you’ve read from government and state media.
      
      That doesn’t mean you’re right. If a Pfizer scientist is on video saying you do not need the vax if you have natural immunity, that makes you, the government and the media wrong.
      
      You see how this works?
      
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      October 12, 2021 2:07pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    I can’t abide the term ‘expect’ the way it gets thrown around in the media.
    
    ‘expert’ – “a person who is very knowledgeable about or skilful in a particular area:
    
    far prefer ‘specialist’ – it recognises the restrictiveness.
    “a person who concentrates primarily on a particular subject or activity; a person highly skilled in a specific and restricted field.”
    
    Most of these ‘experts’ pontificate on other fields they have no recognised specialisation in!
    
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    October 12, 2021 2:24pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    When all you have is a hammer, ever problem looks like a nail.
    
    Well said Graham
    
    Both Jackson and the modeler bloke are prats.
    Jackson is an ideolog and the modeler is NOT an expert at anything other than what HIS model says when they play with the inputs/assumptions.
    
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    October 12, 2021 5:56pm
Yvette

Chuck Bird
And, to reiterate the obvious again, 95 percent of those eligible (4.2 million), is therefore only 95 percent of 84 percent of the whole population, so 80 percent of the Team of Five Million.
And Jacinda won’t even commit to a target percentage, let alone the nuance of pointing out that everyone is talking about a maximum possible percentage of 84 of the total population to start with.
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October 12, 2021 12:55pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

OK girls and boys, we are going to have a vaxathon.
How much more childish can the Govt get ffs?
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October 12, 2021 1:11pm
- stroker08
  
  The barrel has been well and truly scraped now. I wonder if Cindy if going to bring back Leeza Gibbons to put out for the boys again, and if Thingee and Russell Rooster will be brought out of retirement?
  
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  October 12, 2021 1:18pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    Fab – Hills Barry and newsboy, Jason Gunn, Simon Barnett, Lynn of Tawa, Sir Tim Shadbolt, Suzanne Paul, a few All blacks, league names, netball, cricket and Olympic medalists.
    Is Selwyn Toogood still on deck?
    Then – of course – surprise appearance of Ms Ardern,
    Toddler Ardern and ClarkE Ardern.
    
    Can’t wait.
    
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    October 12, 2021 1:39pm
    - graham
      
      I can feel the bile rising in my throat already …
      
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      October 12, 2021 1:46pm
    - graham
      
      And a guest appearance from Laurel Hubbard!
      
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      October 12, 2021 1:47pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      You missed out Cloe
      
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      October 12, 2021 2:18pm
    - Northshoredoc
      
      If they wheeled out the corpse of Selwyn Toogood I’d definitely tune in.
      
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      October 12, 2021 2:30pm
    - Tony Stuart
      
      They’d have to have Harry Tam on the panel, surely?
      
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      October 12, 2021 6:19pm
- Northshoredoc
  
  ‘How much more childish can the Govt get ffs?’
  
  Sadly I think that haven’t scratched the surface yet Steve.
  
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  October 12, 2021 2:29pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yeah, but…it’s going to place our Dear PM and some “celebrities” on the tele screen … and help fill up column space in our MSM….
  Just another great distractor from the fact that NZ is locked down and in all likelihood staying locked down all summer.
  
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  October 12, 2021 3:00pm
rouppe

Jacinda’s big idea. Vaxathon.

Stunning.
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October 12, 2021 1:11pm
- Fletch
  
  Yep, now they are going to have a Telethon, or “Vax-a-thon” on Saturday to get people vaccinated, to be screened all day on Three and Maori TV. It’s the only idea the govt have, with Jacinda saying vaccinations can “get us back to a life that feels more normal”. TBH, I very much doubt it. They have their hopes pinned on a vaccine that doesn’t do what they think it will do. They ascribe to it properties it doesn’t have.
  
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  October 12, 2021 1:26pm
  - ecco
    
    That advertising is just doling out more corporate welfare to those media organisations. Facebook advertising would be much cheaper and more effective.
    
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    October 12, 2021 1:54pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Tamaki has been charged, pleaded not guilty.

Now we await the Labour Party being charged for breaking lockdown and delivering propaganda.
No?
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October 12, 2021 1:14pm
- Ehlana
  
  No.
  
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  October 12, 2021 2:01pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Never happen will it?
    
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    October 12, 2021 2:20pm
- Nickc2
  
  Hey, the Police didn’t charge David Clark for breaking Covid-19 Lockdown rules when he was the Minister of Health FFS. How can they now charge Tamaki? I thought our Plods were supposed to be free of political influence.
  BTW, is Clark still a prominent lump under Cindy’s office carpet?
  
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  October 12, 2021 4:11pm
  - doggone7
    
    Have the police charged everyone who’s broken the lockdown rules?
    
    Are the circumstances of Clark’s misdemeanour and Tamaki’s similar? Comparatively, in what ways did their incidents affect others and threaten the community?
    
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    October 12, 2021 5:56pm
70andstilllearning

FFS – give the couch potatoes that already can’t get off their arses to GO get jabbed a Vaxathon to watch on multiple channels! Now that’s a communication degree for you.
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October 12, 2021 1:15pm
- graham
  
  I don’t even think it’s original – wasn’t the Pacific community in South Auckland doing their own version of a ‘Telethon’ a few weeks ago, where they had different PI communities competing with each other?
  
  Heck, Sir John Key suggested a ‘telethon-style approach’ to boost vaccination numbers back in August! Bet they didn’t mention that today …
  
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  October 12, 2021 1:25pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Yeah – forgot that. When they don’t GO because they sat on the couch watching TV she/MSM will “blame” SJK.
    
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    October 12, 2021 1:38pm
emmess

Here is a bit of hopefulness from this part of world for once
The new NSW Premier seems to be talking quite a lot of sense and pulling back from the extreme policies in other states and in NZ.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Puaryy4tYHA
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October 12, 2021 1:41pm
- Stu2
  
  His first press conference was cringeworthy.
  
  He is focussed on the economy and opening back up, and he made that point by not having the usual health honco there.
  
  They had slightly liberalised the reopening settings the night before, and the journalists got quite aggressive asking why she wasn’t there, and whether health was in agreement with the changes.
  
  The answer was yes, but he blathered randomly for a few minutes before finally making that clear. He should have put it to bed instantly.
  
  C-, could do better.
  
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  October 12, 2021 3:20pm
  - Cinematic
    
    Doesn’t matter. They’re opening up, we’re indefinitely closed. How do you like them apples?
    
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    October 12, 2021 3:55pm
  - emmess
    
    I agree, I set the bar quite low
    I didn’t see the press conference but from that interview, it was definitely a step in the right direction, and that is very rare from politicians.
    
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    October 12, 2021 4:07pm
    - Stu2
      
      Bit of info for my downtickers!
      
      He is highly thought of and outstandingly bright. But even with all his experience as Treasurer and Liberal Deputy it must be hard taking over from Gladys Berejiklian, who has been a superstar. Head and shoulders better than the other premiers.
      
      Handling press conferences might be something he needs to get better at. If the journos are getting into you and you have a good response then respond with it. Don’t let the discussion fester, don’t make it look like you may have something to hide.
      
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      October 12, 2021 4:50pm
- NoFax
  
  The thing about NSW is that they are setting timeframes. First of December it is all over. If he sticks to it then great.
  
  Where will we be on 1 December? Who knows?
  
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  October 12, 2021 4:41pm
Yvette

A random quote, and there are several others like this –
Ardern said these were good figures and put us ahead of the US and Germany but they weren’t high enough for us to ease restrictions

How does one make a rational decision about a vaccination percentage or rate, being high enough or not, without a “target”, “optimum” or “tipping” figure in mind, or is it just an intuitive feeling?
In either sense Ardern is unsuited to lead a Team of Five Million without a goal.

Ardern announced a “blast from the past”, between 12-8pm on various TV channels, there will be a ‘vaxathon’.
It will include real-time data on how regions are going, prizes, information from experts and competition between towns and regions … She said the country had the ability to administer more than 100,000 on one day, the previous record was about 93,000 which was in August. “Those are the records that we should try and beat this week. I believe we can be world-leading on vaccines too.”

So Ardern implies an aim of 100,000 vaccinations on one day, but can’t indicate any target that the whole country is aiming at?
Bizarre!
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October 12, 2021 1:57pm
- Prince
  
  We are not above US or Germany. It is a lie.
  
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  October 12, 2021 3:07pm
  - graham
    
    I guess it depends on which figures she wants to cherry-pick.
    
    The Reuters COVID-19 Global tracker provides some interesting statistics. We are looking pretty good on the “first-dose” figures, but those “fully-vaccinated” figures are not so flash.
    
    NZ: 70.1% have had at least one dose, 48.5% are fully vaccinated
    US: 66.1% have had at least one dose, 57% are fully vaccinated
    Germany: 68.6% have had at least one dose, 65.3% are fully vaccinated
    
    https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/vaccination-rollout-and-access/
    
    And on first-dose figures, I count 18 countries ahead of us.
    
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    October 12, 2021 3:57pm
- Nickc2
  
  How many of those partaking in this display of overt crassness will be receiving three, four or more jabs and how many will already be injected?
  
  1 1
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  October 12, 2021 3:52pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

in 2021, $848 million was spent on managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ), $375 million was spent on vaccines, $280 million on testing, and $119 million to purchase personal protective equipment (PPE)

Lockdowns cost more than a billion a week.
Building a dedicated quarantine facility to house 10000 in very basic garage-like accommodations would have only cost a couple of 100 million – about same lost in 1-2 days of lockdown. Labour sure did save money with their decision not to build a quarrantine facility out of Auckland huh – a decision which has so far led to 3months more of avoidable lockdowns after the unavoidable first.
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October 12, 2021 2:03pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  UN – you ignore the gratifying endorphin rush that occurs as the words “place (x) will remain at Level (y) for a further (z) time period” are uttered.
  Beats waiting waiting waiting… to say we achieved something sensible.
  
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  October 12, 2021 3:04pm
graham

So Jacinda Ardern hopes the televised ‘vaxathon’ will “break daily records for Kiwis getting the jab”. The “blast from the past” will include real-time data on how regions are going, prizes, information from experts and competition between towns and regions.

I’m sure that Ms Ardern, in her mind’s eye, sees a momentous event that captures the nation, draws us all together as one, with families gathered around the TV, eyes glued to the counter and a cheer being raised across the country as each new milestone is reached …

“Let’s hear it for 20,000 vaccinated!!!”

People phoning in, pledging to take their entire family to the nearest vaccination centre if Jeremy Wells will do 10 pressups live on TV … just like in the good ol’ days …

… as opposed to the reality of bored, listless phone operators checking their texts and Twitter while waiting for somebody to call in, various ‘celebrities’ trying to look interested and hyped up, and TV producers desperately checking in with the centres to try and find one that has a decent queue of people which will look good on TV …
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October 12, 2021 2:06pm
- Inandout
  
  graham, does Jacinda not realise the days of Telethon type shows died when streaming came in? I for one rarely venture into our local TV even though my wife likes to watch HGTV some nights. I couldn’t think of anything worse than watching people being jabbed for ‘the cause’ and uplifting their particular region; a bit sad really.
  
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  October 12, 2021 2:41pm
- BeaB
  
  Bread and circuses rarely fail. The little mice will have a fabulous time. The Covid crew, from pink hair to Dr Ash, will be the performing monkeys. [Please use peoples proper names. Mod.] will eat a pie! The crowd will go wild. Hell, people will line up for 3 or 4 jabs!
  
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  October 12, 2021 2:45pm
CAKE FACE1

I suspect one thing and one thing only will stop the lockdowns, and eventually even force the government to release a Rona plan.

Any change in policy will require very bad polling numbers for the government.

Cindy will continue the current road to nowhere Covid policy – which is actually a version of the insane elimination lockdowns continuing forever – until the opinion polls turn.

CAKE, and all men in NZ, are at the mercy of the women of the country coming to their senses en masse.

I have some hope, although there has been few developments to encourage this hope to date…
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October 12, 2021 2:07pm
Liberal Cliche

So safe and effective you have to manipulate, mandate , coerce, intimidate, bully, infantilize, everybody to take it.

Amazing.
13 1
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October 12, 2021 2:43pm
- JeffW
  
  Partly due to concerns about safety, at least as much about inability to get off the couch. Also, do drug sales increase during lockdown?
  
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  October 12, 2021 3:19pm
mikenmildagain

I’m beginning to think Kiwibloggers are unhappy with the way the government is managing the pandemic response.
12 3
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October 12, 2021 3:30pm
- mandk
  
  Yes they are, mikey.
  
  Cindy promised us hard and early, but she delivered soft and late.
  
  Still, for some unfathomable reason, a lot of people think she’s wonderful.
  
  11 2
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  October 12, 2021 3:54pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  It’s a very subtle undertone, but I think you may be right.
  
  7 0
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  October 12, 2021 4:28pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  How long has this taken for your control people to make you see this Mike?
  Seriously?
  
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  October 12, 2021 5:20pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I really thought you were happy with getting vaccinated, Steve, but all you seem to do is grumble.
    
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    October 12, 2021 7:52pm
Yvette

Police charges
Destiny Church’s Brian Tamaki will picnic at the Auckland Domain on the same day another anti-lockdown protest will be taking place there.
Tamaki, who was granted bail on Tuesday morning on the basis he doesn’t attend or organise another protest that breaches COVID-19 requirements, has released a statement saying he will be attending a “picnic with my family” at the Auckland Domain on Saturday.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/10/brain-tamaki-says-he-will-picnic-with-family-at-same-location-day-as-second-anti-lockdown-protest.html

In publicly announcing his intention to attend the protest venue, is Tamaki already influencing others to protest and in that sense is “organising” it, so already breaching his bail conditions?

Marokopa: Man charged with wasting police resources in search and rescue operation
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/10/marokopa-man-charged-with-wasting-police-resources-in-search-and-rescue-operation.html

What of the two covid positive women who toured Northland and the police resources in searching for them, one of which the Police reportedly were forced to obtain a warrant for her arrest which implies she was being ‘protected’.
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October 12, 2021 3:46pm
- Inandout
  
  Yvette, what a simply wonderful opportunity for the Bish to spread the word on the manicured Domain lawns. Children will gather to hear his message downloaded from the mists and some may even get close enough to tug at Brian’s hem. He of course is too clever to fall for the ‘breaching bail conditions’ proviso. Most adults by now know what Brian has been up to and what he espouses.
  
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  October 12, 2021 4:46pm
Aquataur

A non-response to a perfectly reasonable OIA

Asked:
Information requested: Please confirm if there are any Covid cases in NZ that
are linked (by genome or otherwise) to the UN worker in Middlemore Hospital ?
If so, how many are there, and what is believed to be the source of
transmission?

From the useless MoH

Thank you for your email.

Information in response to your request is withheld in full under section 9(2)(a) of the Official Information Act 1982 (the Act) to protect the privacy of natural persons. The Ministry of Health regularly updates information about confirmed and probable cases of COVID-19 in New Zealand, which may be useful to you: https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-current-cases

Under section 28(3) of the Act you have the right to ask the Ombudsman to review any decisions made under this request. The Ombudsman may be contacted by email at: info@ombudsman.parliament.nz or by calling 0800 802 602.

Ngā mihi

Manager, OIA Services

Office of the Director-General

Ministry of Health

From: No_reply@health.govt.nz on behalf of Ministry of Health NZ
Sent: Friday, 8 October 2021 16:51
To: OIA Requests
Subject: Online OIA request

Submitted on Friday, October 8, 2021 – 16:51
Submitted by anonymous user: [122.56.201.57]
Submitted values are:

How would you like us to respond to your request? Please provide your
preferred method of contact and details below
Return postal address:
Subject (not compulsory): Linked cases to UN worker
Information requested: Please confirm if there are any Covid cases in NZ that
are linked (by genome or otherwise) to the UN worker in Middlemore Hospital ?
If so, how many are there, and what is believed to be the source of
transmission?
You can upload a file with your request:
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October 12, 2021 4:36pm
- Aquataur
  
  I have complained to the Ombudsman to see what he might do
  
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  October 12, 2021 4:56pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Or ‘she’ or whatever those others are
    
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    October 12, 2021 5:22pm
Aquataur

Yet another incident that tells me that unfortunately NZ is fucked.

My daughter is a fully qualified firefighter and paramedic at our local volunteer rural fire station.

Called out today (losing work in doing so) to an accident where 2 bros had flipped their car. She checked they were OK and went on traffic duty while the guys in the fire truck sorted out the car on the road.

While stopping traffic, a car full of special people (brown, young, male, wanna-be mobsters) came roaring up, and threatened to run her over unless she let them thru (which she did). She went back to the car, which by now had the gangsters and a cop there as well. The cop said to the driver of the car that had gone thru the stop – What are you doing driving- you’ve lost your licence – driver responds – WTF are you going to do about it?
My daughter advises cop that gangster threatened to kill her ; cop response is – they know your name and will find you; if you press a charge, they will come and visit you. I can’t protect you.

Question for KBs – what should I advise her to do

a. Buy a shotgun
b. press charges
c. wait until the next time she is at an accident with the special people and refuse to help them (which as a volunteer, she is entitled to do)

I personally hope she comes across the arsehole who threatened her in an accident where he is screaming like a big baby from pain – and then she lets him scream for the next 30-45 mins before the ambos arrive.
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October 12, 2021 4:47pm
- Durden
  
  Horrifying first person account.
  
  The ferals have become completely lawless. No doubt enabled by a weak police who try to pacify rather than police, and a Labour government who panders to them with money and special treatment for travel across lockdown boundaries.
  
  The spate of shootings and gang tangis where people gather unlawfully and travel across borders is also a growing and glaring example of how much contempt they have for NZ laws and the police.
  
  This is not going to end well.
  
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  October 12, 2021 5:06pm
  - Aquataur
    
    You mean a ‘woke’ police – same as ‘weak’ police
    
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    October 12, 2021 8:30pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  You want my honest answer?
  
  30-45min? Nah leave ’em be. If they make it it’s a shame if they don’t it’s no loss
  
  Driving the Matamata straight once when an over-aggressive arse took exception to my keeping to the limit – cutting in front, tailgating, passing then dropping behind…
  
  Anyway of they roared only to come a spectacular cropper in a ditch. Slowed, looked, pointed and laughed and drove on
  
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  October 12, 2021 5:12pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  #a. The gangs have them, why not have one for your honest protection?
  Coster will have an “opinion” on this, yes he will …
  
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  October 12, 2021 5:26pm
  - Aquataur
    
    Unfortunately having a firearm for your protection is not a legitimate reason to have one
    
    Having one to rob and threaten people apparently is
    
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    October 12, 2021 6:31pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Police abrogating enforcement against threatening individuals or groups can not stand if you want society to maintain an even keel. They have to nail people who do violence and intimidation (pretty much the whole gang schtick) and they have to have solid backing of politicians and judiciary to do so.
  
  Gangs as clearly organised crime syndicates practising collective intimidation against potential complainants should be outlawed and their membership incarcerated for multiples of standard sentences for any offences to break their power permanently.
  
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  October 12, 2021 5:28pm
Fletch

“Thankyou very much for your vaccination, thankyou very much, thankyou very, very, very much…” ?
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October 12, 2021 4:52pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Now that is in my head. Shall I find a link?
  
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  October 12, 2021 5:28pm
Durden

I see that Amazon took away the Lord of the Rings after asking pointed questions about a couple of things — Maori cultural immersion and expectations to work with a hostile media.

“Communications between the film’s producers and the film commission reveal that Amazon had called the film commission to raise its “concerns” with two “deliverables” in its agreement with the Government. The first was a “cultural immersion session” for significant cast and crew on the project, and the second was a “Media famil experience” – it is not clear what this pertains to, or if either of these events took place.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/amazon-and-film-commission-planning-lord-of-the-rings-release-until-days-before-pin-pulled-on-nz-production/V4Y6CUGB46YAWTUJUKFKFUUM5I/
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October 12, 2021 5:09pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  There’s that but there also what our govt don’t understand
  
  Actors do not work every day, they work as required and sometimes have significant gaps between scenes – days, weeks, sometimes months
  
  Now it’s all well and good when nobody’s heard of you bit when you suddenly become a name (think Kit Harrington from GoT) you are hot property and in demand
  
  Our govt seemed to think that the Harringtons of this world would be happy to be either trapped in NZ in perpetuity losing opportunities or perfectly okay with losing 2 weeks every time they went back to the real world
  
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  October 12, 2021 5:27pm
Benedict Yu

Is anyone watching Clarke Gayford tonight with his new show on TVNZ?

Personally, I would rather cut off my ears, barbeque them in char su sauce, and eat them.

But we are all different. So just asking. ??
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October 12, 2021 5:26pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  New Zealand TV is what Netflix is for – as is Australia’s excruciatingly bad output
  
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  October 12, 2021 5:28pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  wrong name, why watch Jethro from the hillbillies? Same IQ.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TonTGAfn2zI
  
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  October 12, 2021 5:33pm
- Aquataur
  
  Different cultural take – would rather cut off my dick and barbeque it in BBQ sauce than watch the First Man Child
  
  6 1
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  October 12, 2021 5:46pm
- Yvette
  
  Benedict – Is anyone watching Clarke Gayford tonight
  Not Naked And Afraid Of Love <(M-C), Channel 3
  Premiere. One of the singles finds it hard to hide his attraction. S1 Ep1?
  
  4 1
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  October 12, 2021 6:31pm
- graham
  
  The show’s premise (moving houses, or indeed any huge object) is something that would interest me.
  
  But not if I have to suffer through Clarke Gayford presenting it.
  
  So sadly, no.
  
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  October 12, 2021 7:33pm
WaveyDavey

Ah the PredictaIntro on TV3

“A modeller has warned…”
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October 12, 2021 6:05pm
Fletch

As I predicted yesterday – a random guy brings Covid to the South Island.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126651636/covid19-public-tipoff-identified-man-who-flew-from-whangrei-to-queenstown-without-exemption

At this point it looks planned to me.
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October 12, 2021 6:13pm
- doggone7
  
  Did he take Covid to the South Island? You mean he travelled from Northland a Level 3 region?
  
  A region which was level 3 because someone with Covid had entered it.
  
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  October 12, 2021 9:47pm
Cinematic

Wheels are already falling of the teacher vaccine mandate. Time we offered Texas Gov. Abbott citizenship.
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October 12, 2021 6:43pm

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