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October 17, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 17 October 2021

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CJames

So it now has emerged that Sir David Amess was murdered by a young man with a Muslim refugee background and the police has defined it as terrorism. I wonder how long before the mentally disturbed lone wolf narative comes out. The liberal press is already playing down his background. When will they address the uncomfortable narrative that there are people in the Western world who want Sharia law to reign supreme and are active working to threaten the safety of its citizens? OK, this incident is Britain, but there are people similarly motivated here.
You can’t wear a headscarf to deal with this.
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October 17, 2021 8:00am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Yes there may be people like that here.
  
  There are also thousands of others that cause carnage on a daily basis, including but not limited to gang members. Fuelled my methamphetamine and alcohol.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:14am
  - Cassandra
    
    By not my?
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:19am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    While it is great that the gangs fuelled your methamphetamine, wouldn’t it be a bit easier if all psychoactive substances were legalized for recreational use?
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:22am
    - Bung Fizzer
      
      [Deleted. If you are referring to mikenmildagain then use his name. Mod.]
      
      “”wouldn’t it be a bit easier if all psychoactive substances were legalized for recreational use?””
      
      Can you or anyone else answer this conundrum/query regarding Parliamentary privilege and “what happens on tour, stays on tour”. I’d especially appreciate David Garrett or Rodney Hide’s take on this as former politicians regarding drugs.
      
      In some work places, it’s mandatory to take urine tests for drugs. My question is; Since the law makers and/or policy makers in Parliament make the rules/laws, and should lead by example (such as James Shaw the airmiles collector), shouldn’t Politicians be afforded the same courtesy and take mandatory urine tests as well at their (our) place of work?
      
      If their urine samples were found to be positive with illegal substances, would they be excused under “”Parliamentary privilege””? After-all, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
      
      ps, personally I don’t care whether people take drugs, sniff glue or drink in excess but as I’ve mentioned, what’s good for the goose…….
      
      My personal opinion is that all politicians, aids etc should have compulsory drug testing before entering the beehive.
      
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      December 17, 2019 10:04am
      - Bung Fizzer
        
        Although, to be fair as a centre-right leaning bloke. I wish Muldoon took a piss test before his snap election. The rest is history.
        
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        October 17, 2021 10:43am
      - Master Mariner
        
        “My personal opinion is that all politicians, aids etc should have compulsory drug testing before entering the beehive.”
        Yes indeed, I do as well.
        
        I honestly think all politicians should be phychometric tested as well ( Which I do).
        
        Im sure there are ill fitted profiles amongst this current lot.
        
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        October 17, 2021 11:11am
      - I remember when
        
        Don’t have a problem with the legalisation of drug use in principle.
        Unfortunately, when the habit becomes an addition everybody else has to pay.
        At least with alcohol we have an industry that pays taxes, employs staff who are paid wages, is a source of donations, so at least helps pay for some of the cost of treatment.
        
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        October 17, 2021 11:32am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        You would drug test politicians? Under what authority?
        
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        October 17, 2021 12:05pm
      - JibberJabber
        
        “You would drug test politicians? Under what authority?”
        
        I dunno, under what authority do employers drug test employees in the real world?
        
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        October 17, 2021 2:12pm
    - alloytoo
      
      No.
      
      While there will always be people who become addicted, criminality acts as a handbrake on social acceptability.
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:08am
    - Surely Knott
      
      How do you reconcile advocating for free choice psychoactive recreational drugs , while banning choice over access to medical drugs like ivermectin.
      
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      October 17, 2021 10:01am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Ivermectin had to go else CDC could not approve emergency use of Pfizer etc. When interested parties had shares in patents and outcomes they should have recused themselves. It appears strongly that profit trumped medicine.
        Those matters were visible to us amateur reviewers. Our govt had a duty not to follow a tainted leader.
        
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        October 17, 2021 12:03pm
    - surfing
      
      My view is decriminalise drug use… still arrest users and dealers… dealers can be jailed, users put into treatment and mental health services .
      
      The last thing I want is open drug use in public… like what happens in the USA.
      
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      October 17, 2021 10:20am
      - kowtow
        
        Pray tell on what grounds do you “arrest” ie deprive a citizen of his liberty, when you have “decriminalised” the actus reus ?
        
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        October 17, 2021 10:31am
  - Nickc2
    
    But Gangs are Cindy’s mates. She even uses our money to fund them.
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:26am
    - pdm
      
      Hell here is a thought prompted by your comment Nick2.
      
      What a horrible sight the wedding party will be if Sonny Smith is best man and his mrs is matron of honour.
      
      Scary stuff.
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:09am
      - Nickc2
        
        Too true. Smoke signals from Waipawa are telling me the Waipawa MM Chapter have been given the Security Contract for the event. The plods declined the Tender Proposal as it interfered with their hair washing and fingernail polishing day.
        That’s enterprise for ya! Two Govt contracts in less than six months. What could possibly go wrong?
        
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        October 17, 2021 10:06am
      - sooty
        
        But only one gang that we are told.
        When and what will the other gangs want?
        
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        October 17, 2021 10:10am
  - CJames
    
    Benedict – do you mean to have “my” instead of the more likely “by”? Or is there something you aren’t telling us?
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:45am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      by.
      
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      October 17, 2021 8:52am
- CJames
  
  To show the minimisation of the unpleasant facts is already underway, the Mayor of London describes the MP as having “passed away”
  https://twitter.com/MayorofLondon/status/1449019870776070165
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:31am
  - Exclamation Mark
    
    Yes, of course, he passed away peacefully in his sleep after a brief struggle with a knife wielding Islamist.
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:30am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    And thankfully been called out for doing so. There is hope – not for London while the terror-apologist is in charge, but for western civilisation while good people are prepared to speak up.
    
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    October 17, 2021 10:59am
- RockyJ
  
  When this was reported in the Herald it contained a reference to a previous murder of a politician in the UK. The Herald said that murder was committed by a right wing extremist. This left you with the impression that Amess was also killed by a right wing extremist.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:46am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Yes, but to give them credit they later amended it to state that the atrocity was perpetrated by an Islamist terrorist from the far-left, and apologised for the earlier ambiguity.
    
    Well that didn’t actually happen, but I’m sure it will any time now. Yep, any tick of the clock….
    
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    October 17, 2021 11:01am
- Scott
  
  Unfortunately this pattern of terrorist behaviour is happening again and again and again. The attackers are young men, young Muslims, who decide it is their religious duty to kill the infidel. In doing this they are following the example of their founder Mohammed who after the battle of Medina personally executed scores of Jews.
  
  Here in New Zealand our government is determined to import refugees, who let’s be honest fit the profile of this latest attacker. Young Muslim men. Why do we think that things will be any different here?
  
  Can’t we learn from overseas and not import any more problems?
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:55am
  - vand
    
    Scoot notes: “In doing this they are following the example of their founder Mohammed who after the battle of Medina personally executed scores of Jews.”
    But he was being kind Scott- he only had executed the men plus boys who had reached puberty!
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:07am
  - ecco
    
    Apparently 1000 more afghanistanis have been awarded NZ visas I was reading. Does this also include the extended families of the 1000 afghanistanis?
    
    You’d hope stranded, long term NZ citizens would be getting priority for entry into NZ at this point in time, what with the MIQ debacle.
    
    These asylum seekers take a lot of resources and energy to resettle. Time and resources we do not have at present with our late vaccine rollout and the ensuing shutdown of Auckland going on to it’s third month.
    
    I’ve seen close hand some iraqi refugees that I work with on a volunteer basis at an organisation. They do not all learn enough english, even after 5 years here, go on numerous courses which do not make any difference to holding down a job, in some cases cannot add and do basic maths, don’t/won’t learn to drive and they access all the medical services, which are in very short supply at the moment in NZ.
    
    It’s not an easy assimilation and takes a very long time, so a staged approach is definitely what I’d want to see having witnessed this close hand.
    
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    October 17, 2021 10:45am
- Andrew Worth
  
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Jo_Cox
  
  Fanaticism is the problem.
  
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  October 17, 2021 9:38am
- Kiwi_in_Paris
  
  The MP was heading the opposition to vaccine passports, and suddenly the “opposition” parties all say they will not be running candidates to contest his replacement. Boris can put in anyone he wants, no opposition. Democracy at work in 2021.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:04pm
mikenmildagain

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Happy International Day for the Eradication of Poverty!
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October 17, 2021 8:00am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I hope you cc’d the Prime Minister in on that mikenmild, given that the reason she’s in politics is to lift people, especially children, out of poverty.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:20am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    With Kiwiblog conversation threads enjoying their deserved level of influence, you would surely be confident that the prime minister has already seen that comment.
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:25am
  - Simon
    
    Gayford has been lifted out of poverty. But that’s about it.
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:45am
    - pdm
      
      Almost certainly the only one Simon.
      
      No wait – I almost forgot Sonny Smith and his mrs – $2.75million probably does the trick for Waipawa’s most famous couple.
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:12am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        If only, PDM. Call me prejudiced, but I reckon that the Smiths were nowhere near the poverty line prior to the $2.75m.
        
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        October 17, 2021 1:08pm
      - pdm
        
        Yeah nmtb -it is just hard to tell the way the mongies are all in matching attire.
        
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        October 17, 2021 2:29pm
    - kowtow
      
      He certainly appears to be making the most of his new found fame to promote tv shows / books etc
      
      Cui bono.
      
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      October 17, 2021 10:33am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Poverdy, get it right Tony !
    
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    October 17, 2021 11:01am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Nice words, Mikey.
  
  What are you actually doing about it?
  
  Recall, actions speak louder than words.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:31am
  - cmm
    
    Dug himself a nice wee trough? MMA is not in poverty.
    
    As the saying goes: charity starts at home.
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:59am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I do what I can – probably not enough though. Perhaps I could encourage more people to follow the example of Jesus, but I don’t think copying his reputed actions are as popular as they once were.
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:24am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Implying, you follow Jesus huh?
      Giving up ALL earthly goods….? Starting….now?
      
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      October 17, 2021 10:01am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Yes, that’s what a true Christian would do. But I don’t believe in superstitious nonsense.
        
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        October 17, 2021 3:23pm
    - Prince
      
      Speaking of which.
      https://twitter.com/Beywake/status/1448792153275002921
      (warning, graphic content)
      
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      October 17, 2021 10:54am
- cmm
  
  Nothing, but nothing, has done more to eradicate poverty than colonialism (the British sort of course!).
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:57am
  - alloytoo
    
    Innovation and capitalism have also contributed to the irradiation of absolute poverty.
    
    There are very few (if any) people in New Zealand in absolute poverty.
    
    The will always be people who accumulate more wealth than their peers under similar circumstances. Relative success is not poverty.
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:13am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Correct in every respect. Capitalism (which funds innovation) is the single greatest factor in lifting people out of poverty.
      
      The desire to do better than your parents, your brother, your neighbour, either for yourself or (more often) your children, is an innate human trait and long may it continue.
      
      The only poverty in New Zealand is poverty of ambition, poverty of parenting and poverty of low expectations.
      
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      October 17, 2021 11:06am
    - cmm
      
      “Innovation and capitalism have also contributed to the irradiation of absolute poverty.”
      
      Neither of those would exist (in most of the globe) unless the Brits had imported them.
      
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      October 17, 2021 3:40pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about your family history.
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:21am
    - Ed Snack
      
      And keep telling yourself otherwise, if it makes you feel better about yourself.
      
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      October 17, 2021 11:03am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Mostly by western education, the very education they now rail against.
    
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    October 17, 2021 10:02am
  - krazykiwi
    
    My vote would be for separation of church and state (said as a Christian!), abundant energy, and common law.
    
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    October 17, 2021 12:26pm
- Master Mariner
  
  There is no International consensus on what constitutes Poverty.
  Herein lays the problem.
  After working and living in absolute shit holes, I don’t see any excuse for Poverty in NZ.
  
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  October 17, 2021 9:00am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    https://www.facebook.com/ComediansGotTalent/videos/daliso-chaponda-on-britains-got-talent-2017/474877856219804/
    Perhaps a reason to get real.
    or perhaps a warning?
    
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    October 17, 2021 10:04am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Yes indeed.
      Another good one is this,
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bGHkTgkjUg
      
      Used to live in Namibia for a couple of years and watched this.
      
      “or perhaps a warning?”
      Does sometimes seem like a race to the bottom after all the relative successes of reducing Poverty.
      
      Trying to reduce people to the lowest common denominator seems to be the ” New Great Leap Forward”.
      
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      October 17, 2021 11:27am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Not only that, Cap’n, but the definition of poverty New Zealand and many other OECD countries uses means it is in fact impossible to eradicate it. If your household earns less than 60% of the median household income, by definition you’re in poverty.
    
    Let’s give everyone a $100,000 pay rise right now. The number of households below the “poverty line” will barely change, and that will always be the case as long as you measure what you have against what your neighbour has.
    
    The measure should be more about whether you have enough to enjoy a good lifestyle, laughingly referred to as “the living wage”. Funnily enough, I’ve never seen anything in the news about anyone in New Zealand dying from not having the living wage or from poverty.
    
    Those in hardship are invariably there because of poor decisions they’ve made throughout their life and sadly it’s mostly an inter-generational pattern that’s very difficult to break. So difficult it requires hard work, some education and better decision-making about money and lifestyle choices.
    
    Not one of those is affected by race, and all are freely available to every New Zealander who wants them.
    
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    October 17, 2021 11:16am
    - Master Mariner
      
      A while back I looked at the metrics used for Poverty in NZ.
      Out of 10 I only got 4.
      This was as a 4 yr old raised in the Chathams.
      Sure Internet not available then but used as one condition.
      Was I in Poverty, Absolutely not. Best upbringing you could wish for.
      Did I have 2 pairs of shoes, Nope.
      Did we get fresh fruit and vegetables Daily, Nope.
      Cant remember the rest.
      Lived in a one room shack that my father built.
      But sure as hell was’nt in Poverty.
      Like I say, Poverty is measured differently in different countries and of no relevance in NZ.
      
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      October 17, 2021 11:44am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Hmm, the World Bank used to provide “poverty” data in USD for poverty and extreme poverty.
    With regard to NZ, there cannot be any poverty in this country. We have a well developed and funded social welfare system that provides shelter, food and clothing. Ergo, no possibility of poverty. So no person in NZ can claim (that’s politicians, churchmen, laypeople, no one) that there is poverty. Sure there are poor people, but there’s a difference between being poor and living in poverty.
    
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    October 17, 2021 12:30pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Nice to read so many insightful comments about poverty.
  
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  October 17, 2021 3:25pm
PhilBest

I have been posting a link occasionally to a video excerpt from the iconic old movie “Casablanca”, which provides a bit of a history lesson about how “Vichy” worked. I have just realized that at some stage I picked up a link to the wrong video, which was slightly shorter and omitted the crucial end to the vignette where the Vichy official “throws” the victory in the little outbreak of point-scoring, to the Nazis.

Here is the correct video. I think it should become a global meme about the relationship between evil progressivism and “mainstream centre right” political parties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLM-WDPK58k
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October 17, 2021 8:00am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Great movie. You have, of course, drawn completely erroneous conclusions from your attempt to find this scene relevant to your current political fantasies.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:29am
- Simon
  
  Ice cold in Alex. Miles better
  
  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uWVQwIDjtNY
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:48am
  - kowtow
    
    Ice Cold is a great film , but comparisons are invalid . Totally different .
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:06am
    - PhilBest
      
      Yes I can’t think of any analogous scenes to apply to evil-appeasing “centre right” politicians in that movie
      
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      October 17, 2021 11:23am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Great, great movie.
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:24am
- Fletch
  
  Great movie. I have the Casablanca 70th Anniversary bluray box set.
  
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  October 17, 2021 12:06pm
Benedict Yu

I was thinking that 130,000 vaccinations on Saturday was pretty good. Then I spotted this explanatory note, which received no attention in all the gushing.

“VACCINE UPDATE:

As of 6:30pm, there had been 127,342 doses given today.

Of those, 38,133 were first doses.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300431844/super-saturday-how-the-big-day-went-in-delivering-covid19-vaccination

So 70 percent of the people turning up on Saturday were having their second dose, which had already been scheduled.

There are 4,231,778 people who are eligible to be vaccinated. As at Friday, 83 percent of the eligible population had received at least one dose.

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data

Which means that the festival on Saturday increased that proportion from 83.0 percent to 83.9 percent.

And yet Alison Mau and that piece of work Baker pile on in.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300431763/you-could-say-this-has-shifted-the-dial-how-super-saturday-was-won

“And it was a gloriously Māori-centric show, with te reo at the forefront of just about every utterance.” gushes Alison.

“You could say this has shifted the dial'”
________

And yet again we see the media as the propaganda unit of the Government. Let’s imagine I have a customer who has some target metric of 90 percent. Let’s assume that it is market share. I analyse the data. Market share has grown from 83.0 percent to 83.9 percent.

And I say “Hey great news we have shifted the dial” ha ha ha.

All yesterday showed is that the hold outs don’t want to get vaccinated. At all. Moving from 83.9 percent towards 90 percent will be glacial.
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October 17, 2021 8:02am
- PhilBest
  
  Benedict, you asked me late in the argument yesterday, to describe why we are different in Covid vulnerability, to Brazil, Portugal and South Dakota.
  
  We are very different from Brazil, and different enough from Portugal and South Dakota in factors that will make a difference.
  
  Our UV and solar radiation kills viruses in as little as 1/5 of the time – 4 minutes versus 20 – than it does in most other parts of the world. UV doesn’t get indoors, but Ozone, created outdoors by UV, does. And so does some of the other forms of solar radiation.
  
  Portugal has a lot of very old stone housing. NZ’s predominant housing type built of inherently breathable wood, is an advantage to us. NZ has very much less equivalents to Brazil’s Favelas or incredibly dense apartments. NZ does not have such severe weather of a kind that keeps people confined indoors and with windows shut, certainly not like Brazil’s season of heavy rains and thunderstorms, which is the reason their flu season is offset from where you’d naturally expect it to be purely due to southern hemisphere temperature patterns.
  
  South Dakota has long periods of freezing conditions with snow on the ground. Indoors gets incredibly dry, which is perfect for floating airborne viruses. Another factor that an American contact pointed out to me, is that grain harvesting season causes the air to fill with particulates that cause respiratory problems, and makes people shelter indoors with windows closed.
  
  I doubt any of these places you mention have NZ’s prevalent wind patterns to create accidental ventilation everywhere.
  
  Another factor with Latino cultures is that the way they speak and vocalise tends to expelling higher amounts of droplets of all sizes, which would include many of the crucial aerosol size.
  
  Bear in mind too that the deaths are almost entirely of elderly who exist in certain housing conditions; this is crucial to comparisons of different nations vulnerability to Covid death rates. With NZ’s natural advantages, it would be an unconscionable own-goal to somehow engineer rest home death rates comparable to parts of the world that do not have our natural advantages.
  
  And if your belief in the vaccines is well founded, the highly-vaccinated rest home population are pretty much out of the equation for NZ.
  
  So far, the fact that infection in NZ has been ripping through the crowded rental housing sector, with multi-generational households, low vaccination rates, and high levels of obesity, diabetes and other co-morbidities, and a high degree of regulatory and vaccine intransigence – and we only have two deaths so far – clearly shows that there is something we are leaving out of the equation, and I say this “something” is natural advantages.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:03am
  - krazykiwi
    
    A good response. I hope Benedict is polite in his reply to you 😉
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:22am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I apologise for being impolite to you the other day.
      
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      October 17, 2021 8:27am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Good on ya, Benedict. I read your well researched posts with interest.
        
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        October 17, 2021 8:33am
      - Biscuit
        
        No, no, no, Benedict!
        
        This is the Internet.
        
        And you never apologise on the Internet!
        
        What you do is impugn your ‘opponent’ mercilessly … so, here, you’d call PhilBest the product of unwed parents, imply his choice of sleeping partner is some two legs – and a lot of wool – more than the norm, ridicule his football team of choice, demean his physical appearance, rubbish his car(s), chortle at his politics…
        
        And then you conclude with a Penny Brightism like ‘all said with the greatest of respect’, ha…
        
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        October 17, 2021 8:42am
      - krazykiwi
        
        Accepted. You, sir, are a scholar and a gentleman.
        
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        October 17, 2021 8:58am
      - pdm
        
        Benedict – no one ever should call Biscuit `ascholar and a gentleman’ he is a scouser after all!!
        
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        October 17, 2021 9:16am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Another factor with Latino cultures is that the way they speak and vocalise tends to expelling higher amounts of droplets of all sizes
    
    LOL.
    Got any other similarly laughable cultural comparisons?
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:30am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Try having a meal with 18 Italian members of one extended family as mrs kk and I did one year in Milan. 18 people simultaneously eating, laughing and talking. The noise level was approaching that of a pneumatic drill. It was a fabulous cross-cultural education for us both.
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:04am
      - Scooter
        
        Not to mention the kissing on both cheeks, no wonder Italy was a super spreader.
        
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        October 17, 2021 9:36am
      - lifesgood
        
        Italy’s massive outbreak was due to the Chinese who live and work there and travel back and forth between countries. Italy is running a gigantic scam. They have an excellent name for their clothing and fashions so in order to trade off that reputation they import cheap chinese labour to work in big factories making cheap clothes which can then be labeled “Made in Italy”. It’s put me right off buying anything with that label in/on it.
        
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        October 17, 2021 10:38am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Retrospective analysis of the original outbreak in Italy concluded that a majority if not a super majority of cases appeared to have caught the virus actually in hospitals. This was back before the aerosol spread was recognised so the initial patients were just kept with others in an environment perfectly suited to spreading such a virus.
        
        No need to invoke some behavioural aspects that may, though also may not, help spread aerosols. Though a high volume of talking does seem to help spread the virus, not through larger particles and droplets but just the sheer volume of aerosol laden breaths in a relatively confined space. Spreading in churches is not uncommon and quite possibly this is promoted by singing. A couple of early US outbreaks were related to choirs and singing events.
        
        At first this actually gave some backing to the theory that the virus was spread by larger particles expelled during vigorous speech or singing, however I think it is now well established that spread is almost only through aerosols. Thus a number of specific remedies adopted early are effectively unnecessary though we still continue to follow them. These include “deep cleaning” and most especially, masking. Neither of these has any real impact on spread in any meaningful way.
        
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        October 17, 2021 11:15am
      - krazykiwi
        
        Ed, further to that the hospitals in Bergamo were regularly overwhelmed with seasonal respiratory conditions well before Covid-19 showed up. Other negative factors included high incidence of smoking, and regular legionella outbreaks both in the hospitals and residential apartment buildings.
        
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        October 17, 2021 6:05pm
    - dcrane
      
      Isn’t there some basis for the belief that singing in churches increases the spread? Louder and more sustained vocalization probably means more air expelled, so presumably more chance to spread the virus. It sounds funny in the cultural context, but it doesn’t make sense to pretend there can’t be such differences.
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:48am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        There were a number of superspreader events in S.Korean churches last year
        https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53803011
        
        (but some of those churches have pretty large congregations)
        
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        October 17, 2021 10:56am
      - Sacha
        
        and laughter. Laughing spreads the virus if you’ve got some sitting on your pharynx.
        Don’t laugh, just in case.
        
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        October 17, 2021 10:59am
      - bronny1
        
        There was research done after the Seattle church spread last year, quite early on. They were all physically distanced but it was found that the singing indeed put way more particles (or whatever we call them) into the air than most other activities
        
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        October 17, 2021 11:00am
      - PhilBest
        
        Absolutely that is a correct assessment. I’ve seen a chart somewhere that shows singing expels virus aerosols at a higher rate than anything else, ahead of cheering and shouting.
        
        Conversing loudly is somewhere between those top emitters, and conversing quietly. So is puffing and panting, eg in a gym or indoor sports. Down the bottom is “merely breathing”. But there are other variables affecting the risk level, the rate of ventilation, the amount of air space per person, and the duration people spend there.
        
        Rest homes, for example, can be very quiet but the 24/7 duration takes them right to the top of the risk stakes, worse than an hour of choir practice or an 8 hour shift at the cool store.
        
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        October 17, 2021 11:27am
      - Master Mariner
        
        Same as Chinese blowing snot on the floor during meal times.
        Logical reasoning for that is in Chinese minds, “Why the hell would you blow your nose in a hanky and carry it around with you”.
        Cant argue with Logic.
        
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        October 17, 2021 11:50am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        So, avoid packed covered stadia with fervent local fans … won’t be going to see Wales vs the All Blacks, then.
        
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        October 17, 2021 1:15pm
      - Surely Knott
        
        Singing without a mask on, standing in a huddle, in a large non-family group . I’m pretty sure you can’t spread it like this. Because I saw all the celebrities and TV health scientists doing it on TV so it must be ok.
        https://twitter.com/i/status/1449295136484052993
        
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        October 17, 2021 4:00pm
    - Inandout
      
      m&m, yes but this one has a twist. LOL
      https://www.the-sun.com/news/2982432/california-cafe-fee-mask-covid-vaccine/
      
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      October 17, 2021 10:48am
    - I remember when
      
      MMA:
      Perhaps you should just blog “Hidden due to low comment rating” – might save you from RSI.
      
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      October 17, 2021 11:56am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        True. It does take me quite a while logging in with different usernames so I can add enough downticks to make sure my comments get hidden.
        
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        October 17, 2021 3:28pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Good evidence. Shouting, singing, laughing all spray the virus. Which makes sense. Try sharing a meal with Brazilians, Argentinians or Mexicans. I have. Infected they would be diabolical.
      
      So I don’t know why you are being smart arse dismissive.
      
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      October 17, 2021 5:06pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I’m pretty sure that I could summon any racial or cultural stereotype in support of a thesis that [insert ethnicity of choice] people would spread a virus more than other (normal) people.
        
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        October 17, 2021 5:43pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        There’s no such thing as ‘normal’, milky. I know that hurts in terms of dismantling the neo-Marxist victim-oppressor construct that you seem eager to perpetuate.
        
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        October 17, 2021 5:58pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        ‘Normal’ is a preferred term for folk to use when comparing themselves to the dreaded ‘others’.
        
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        October 17, 2021 7:02pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Thanks very much for that. Interesting. I hope you are correct and the next year turns out to be benign.
    
    I was thinking this morning again about the “elimination strategy”. All it really was about was locking up the country, doing no preparation, and providing the people with a perverse false sense of security. All driven by the political needs of the PM. To have COVID mask a myriad of failure on literally every challenge facing New Zealand. Like the housing obscenity.
    
    And so here we are being dragged from under our beds while the rest of the world is moving on.
    
    I think the next 12 months will be fairly ugly. But I sincerely hope that I am proved wrong.
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:33am
    - Scott
      
      Yes, as John Key said, we have become a smug hermit kingdom. The fact of the matter is we cannot stop the virus forever. So we’re going to have to learn to live with it.
      The last 18 months we have flattened the economy and taken away everybody’s freedoms for the sake of a little temporary personal safety.
      
      I am heartened by the protests going on in Auckland. I think they have it right.
      
      I am dismayed by the sycophants in the media who are determined to relentlessly spin the government line.
      
      But reality is kicking in. We need to open up and learn to live with this virus.
      
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      October 17, 2021 8:58am
      - PhilBest
        
        The estimable Ross Clark in the Daily Telegraph absolutely nailed this.
        
        https://www.nzcpr.com/ardern-has-come-crashing-back-to-earth/
        
        “…Ardern’s hubris was fuelled by her international status as a rockstar of the centre-left.
        
        I discovered the extent of this a year ago when I wrote a piece that was critical of her zero Covid policy – pointing out that in the initial fight against the disease she had done very little different from Boris Johnson’s government, and that as Covid became endemic elsewhere in the world, New Zealand faced long years of self-imposed economic downturn as it sealed itself off.
        
        I have never had such a strong reaction to anything I have written, with tirades of abuse flowing in from all over the world.
        
        To many on the soft-left, Arden represented all that they advocated in a government: compassion, competence and vision.
        
        She was the living example of why we should have more women in charge of politics, business and everything else (this from the same people, naturally, who lost no chance to launch personal attacks on Britain’s two female Prime Ministers).
        
        If Ardern is a rock star, I’m afraid she has reached second album syndrome. What looked so clever to many people a year ago no longer looks quite so smart.
        
        The world can finally see that zero Covid was a dead end which delayed but did not eliminate Covid, while drawing out the economic damage from repeated lockdowns as far as the eye can see…”
        
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        October 17, 2021 11:29am
    - Ra Henare
      
      Benedict, I think that the PM is practicing aspiration over operation. Ie all talk no do.
      
      Her aspiration to be seen as a world leader!
      It comes thru again and again, climate change, and the latest farcical we want to be the worlds best/leading vaccinated country. Hint. It ain never going to happen.
      
      It would be very refreshing if her aspiration was to return democracy and a fair go to all Kiwis.
      
      Then actually DO SOMETHING to progress that rather than all the virtue signaling BS that is happening at the moment with Cancelling Oil & Gas, removing rights of citizens to decide how their Local bodies should be structured, 3 waters etc etc etc
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:13am
    - alloytoo
      
      Can’t fault your analysis.
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:20am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      Welcome to covid tyranny ground hog day.
      
      The rest of the world are learning to live again and are opening up.
      
      Wouldn’t it be nice if we had some leadership like when we hit X% vaccination rate we will open up the economy and borders.
      
      That can’t happen until they can find a way to justify the economic and social damage, they (jacinda, robbo and chippie) have inflicted on the people of New Zealand.
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:53am
      - Paulus
        
        Ardern is practicing her super role for the APEX on line meeting, next month as New Zealand – read Ardern is the Chairperson.
        By luck for her it is our turn to Chair, and she will do everything to tell these World Leaders how wunnerful she is and any UN references to her would be welcome – asap please.
        Just listen to her practicing.
        Glad it is only on line so do not have to watch but our media will magnify her brilliance.
        
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        October 17, 2021 1:30pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      I do agree that we actually have delayed this problem to the best time. In most of NZ summer is an outdoors time though a lot of business premises will be inside with air conditioning and thus be an ideal spreading environment.
      
      Probably the best protective measures we can take will be to really impress upon people that if they have anything like symptoms for Covid and they work inside normally, that they should test and stay away until cleared. Plus a massive focus on improving internal ventilation, this would include something like UV sterilisation of recycled air or mandate the use of fresh air based systems with no recycling and with air flows that minimise spread.
      
      That plus encourage people to be outside (mask less of course !).
      
      Plus of course I still think we should be preventatively treating anyone who tests positive with, say, the i-MASK protocols, plus aspirin. We don’t need to wait for more and more (deliberately delayed and skewed) tests about Ivermectin, use it, it is remarkably safe and dirt cheap, as are all the other parts of the protocol like vitamins.
      
      Just take the idea seriously and don’t keep pretending that the “vaccine” is anything other than another prophylactic treatment, reducing symptoms but not really preventing infection.
      
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      October 17, 2021 11:23am
  - artemisia
    
    Close contacts not supermarkets then.
    
    Last year Wellington City Council in a panic proposed spending a truckload of ratepayer money to remove car parks in the CBD and widen the footpaths in case pedestrians got too close to each other. Fortunately that particular stupidity did not prevail.
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:37am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      Auckland transport did the same, queen street is a mess.
      
      Covid was just an excuse to push the ideology.
      
      Who would do something retarded like that, seriously.
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:56am
    - PhilBest
      
      Even close contacts might not matter if there is good ventilation where you are. Close contacts outdoors are virtually risk free unless you get into tongueing or sneezing on each others faces. It would be possible to make close contact indoors risk free too with adequate ventilation and/or air treatment.
      
      I believe Singapore’s experts said a year ago that you needed to be together in a poorly ventilated space for 30 minutes, for infection to take hold. Delta might have reduced that. But to end up in an ICU you need a much higher dose of infection than what you’d inhale in half an hour.
      
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      October 17, 2021 11:33am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      And this in Wellington, where the wind blows it all away.
      
      How the country used to laugh at Wellington. They’re not laughing now. *
      
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      October 17, 2021 1:18pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        * Which is a variation on one of my favourite jokes (credit Jimmy Carr).
        
        “How they laughed when I said I was going to be a comedian”
        
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        October 17, 2021 1:20pm
      - PhilBest
        
        I just did some quick Google research about windy cities and Covid outcomes.
        
        Perth is the only city among the windiest, with a decent population level. However, it certainly seems to be the most charmed city in Australia.
        
        But even the low-population windy “cities” are obviously doing well against Covid; St Johns, Rio Gallegos, Punta Arenas.
        
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        October 17, 2021 6:02pm
  - thirteenstars
    
    “Another factor with Latino cultures is that the way they speak and vocalise tends to expelling higher amounts of droplets of all sizes…”
    
    Who’d have thought the New Zealand tendency to mumble and mangle words and speak from the chest would be an advantage.
    
    Could explain why the Italians have had such a rough time of it. They really go at it.
    
    😉
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:10am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Our UV and solar radiation kills viruses in as little as 1/5 of the time – 4 minutes versus 20 – than it does in most other parts of the world.
    
    Interesting. Can you point us at the source of such precise info?
    
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    October 17, 2021 10:07am
    - surfing
      
      UV kills viruses, nz does have higher UV levels.
      
      Maybe this is good for killing aerosol covid for outdoors in summer, not sure about indoors or in winter.
      
      Indoor Uv lights can reduce incidence of measles I believe.
      
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      October 17, 2021 11:05am
    - PhilBest
      
      I can’t find the exact info again now, but you can draw similar conclusions from this:
      
      https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/php.13293
      
      “…90% or more of SARS-CoV-2 virus will be inactivated after being exposed for 11-34 min of midday sunlight in most US and world cities during summer….”
      
      And look at the recommended rating of sunscreen here versus there….
      
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      October 17, 2021 11:56am
      - PhilBest
        
        This is also highly interesting:
        
        https://www.ehinz.ac.nz/indicators/uv-exposure/about-uv-exposure/
        
        – The Earth has an elliptical orbit, and passes closest to the Sun during December and January. This means that the sun is closer to New Zealand in our summertime than it is to northern hemisphere countries in their summertime.
        
        – New Zealand has a comparatively ‘clean’ atmosphere due to its remoteness and low population density. This means that UV radiation can pass through the atmosphere relatively unhindered.
        
        – In summer, ozone-depleted air moves over New Zealand from Antarctica. This ozone hole means there are less ozone molecules to absorb UV radiation before it reaches Earth’s surface.
        
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        October 17, 2021 12:07pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Dunno that I would have interpreted it as far as you did, but it’s an honest effort and not from your arse. Buggered if I can see why you have downticks, but then I got downticked for asking. The funny old KB world 🙂
        
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        October 17, 2021 5:29pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      If only there were a way to bring that light inside the body to kill the virus.
      
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      October 17, 2021 4:46pm
      - PhilBest
        
        Google catheterized UV light to treat lung and respiratory tract infections.
        
        If it works, it will have been buried by the establishment. Even worse, the Trumpitler himself referred to it as having potential…
        
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        October 17, 2021 6:19pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Also…all your examples have hard boarders with countries/ states with different laws and regulations.
    We do not, making it much easier for us…and yet…
    Ie covid can’t swim.
    
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    October 17, 2021 10:27am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      A hard boarder must be the dream customer of a certain type of landlady…
      
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      October 17, 2021 4:47pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    Brazil is on the equator. Might have at least as much UV as we do. Portugal is pretty much the same latitude as we are. South Dakota is further from the equator than us and has about the same population as the Hutt Valley …. You forgot to mention Scotland, Alabama, Louisiana and Oregon …
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:15pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  I’ve been banging on about this for weeks. Even going so far as to directly contact those in the media doing stories on the number. Response? Zero
  
  It’s really simple but either they don’t see it or they choose not to
  
  1. There is a fixed number that we have to reach – 4.21m (now whether you think they’ll do what they say is another matter
  2. There is a gap that must be bridged between now and that number – as of Fri it was 230,000
  3. They count booked 1st doses in the current number (booked + jabbed)
  4. Second doses are immaterial, they’re already counted
  5. The only number that matters is how much the needle moves towards the target
  6. The needle moves at, on average, 12,000 a day **this is the important number**
  7. Yesterday it moved by at most 35,0000 or 3 average days worth so an extra 2 days worth **this is ALL it did**
  8. As of today the jabbed + vaxed will stand at c.200k (at best)
  9. 200,000/12,000 = 17 days
  10. At the current rate (and it will slow for the reasons in the article) it will be 17 days + 21 days (2nd doses) + 14 days (max efficacy) or 52 days from now when we can expect (at the earliest) to hit 90%
  
  BUT
  
  11. 90% of what? Eligible population? Will they add the 5-12yo cohort (c450k) into the mix? Across each individual demographic? Who knows, they haven’t and won’t say
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:09am
  - Cinematic
    
    Why are we all being kept in the dark?
    
    Do these fools sincerely believe we can’t process a target and plan accordingly?
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:31am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Given the “I don’t believe you, that doesn’t make senses” that I’ve received when I point out the above…
      
      I’d suggest that they are right to believe it, yes
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:12am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    On point 11 they can only move 5 to 11 year olds into the mix if Medsafe approves it. The FDA in the USA is scheduled to consider the Pfizer application for these kids to be vaccinated on 26 October. If they approve, Medsafe will follow in the next two to three months, assuming that Pfizer lodges a New Zealand application.
    
    But ultimately it is up to the government. If they add 5 to 11 year olds to the “eligible population” they will never reach the 90 percent target IMO. I think many parents will be reluctant to vaccinate younger kids and there are a lot of them. So let’s say 60 percent of 5 – 11 year olds are vaccinated. That will drive down the total percentage vaccinated to about 70 percent. Which won’t be good for Jacinda. Which makes me think the government will just decide to prohibit vaccines for 5 to 11 year olds even if they get a green light from Medsafe.
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:45am
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      What’s the clinical justification for vaccinating 5-11 year olds? They are the least likely to be affected by Covid, while the younger recipients are most likely to have adverse reactions to the vaccine.
      
      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/09/teenage-boys-risk-vaccines-covid/?utm_content=telegraph&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1631205198
      
      https://www.dailyveracity.com/2021/09/09/new-studs-shows-vaccines-are-more-dangerous-to-children-than-covid/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=pmd_8QGbKFy1uWaskvLmqNEQeIwh47JVN42FKZG.UuW.y_k-1634414075-0-gqNtZGzNAlCjcnBszQjl
      
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      October 17, 2021 8:55am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        The FDA3, Medsafe, and other regulators will cover that in their assessments. Until then I don’t know what the clinical justification is because AFAIK no regulator has published the analysis.
        
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        October 17, 2021 9:07am
      - cmm
        
        “What’s the clinical justification for vaccinating 5-11 year olds? ”
        
        None. It is irrational fear.
        
        There are a lot of mamma bears out there who are fearful for their cubs.
        
        Sure, there are some, very few, kids for whom vaccination is a “good deal” eg. those with massive asthma or so, but for the vast majority it is of little benefit.
        
        But remember that most, or at least many, people believe the shit in the MSM. For example, Helen Clark the other day saying that her 95 year old father was getting vaccinated to protect his great grandkids.
        
        People who believe that will want their kids vaccinated. Same for the people that bought Cindy’s line that it is just like MMR.
        
        If they get MMR it then stands to reason that they’d get the CV19 vax if they believe Cindy.
        
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        October 17, 2021 9:09am
      - WaveyDavey
        
        “justification…”
        
        “Ashley said so….
        
        …after we told him to say so”
        
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        October 17, 2021 9:53am
      - Ed Snack
        
        It is very sad that some people, and I include myself in that group, no longer really trust Medsafe to make an informed and ethical decision on vaccines for the young.
        
        They haven’t been very open or transparent at all, and have continued to push a number of at best, half truths, for what seem to be almost entirely political reasons.
        
        I just hope that this mistrust is actually misplaced.
        
        Just to add, as noted before at this stage Asthma is not considered a risk factor for Covid. The children most at risk typically have something like cancer and are taking medication for that which impacts their immune systems. There are other sometimes genetic (diabetes) and other issues of concern. This is as a percentage, a very small number of children, but there certainly are some who would be at considerable risk from Covid as a result.
        
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        October 17, 2021 11:26am
      - I remember when
        
        Australia 1516 deaths. Still 0 for 0-9 age group and 1 for 10-19 group.
        Sorry BY and cmm always getting caught by lack of reply and ending up reporting.
        
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        October 17, 2021 12:08pm
      - dannz
        
        The death rate from Covid in young people is around 1 in 30,000.
        The death rate from the vaccine is about one in a million or less.
        On balance they are still better to get vaccinated, although the risk is low either way.
        
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        October 17, 2021 2:05pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Nobody is arguing kids should get vaccinated because they will otherwise die. You are wasting your time running that line. The argument is they are highly infectious and will pass the virus on to mum and dad and granny.
        
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        October 17, 2021 5:10pm
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Which is again something I’ve been saying for weeks now
      
      Add the 5-12yo’s and you instantly take 10% off the vax + jabbed numbers
      
      The few people I know with kids in that age range have happily taken the vaccine but are much more hesitant when it comes to their children – who could have guessed?
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:11am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I agree with you but I we would like to read the FDA assessment before I draw any conclusions. Don’t forget just because Pfizer is good to go does not mean that the FDA will approve it for 5 to 11 year olds. The FDA may conclude there is no justification. And it that happens it will never be approved in New Zealand.
        
        Remember Pfizer is just into making money. They are currently concluding clinical trials in infants as young as 6 months old.
        
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        October 17, 2021 10:42am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      But they can move them into the 90% without saying they have to be vaccinated of course
      
      This is like playing a game of football where the rules, which you didn’t know when you started, are regularly changed during play, without you being told that they’ve changed, and the goalposts constantly move
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:15am
      - sooty
        
        With alot of the elderly in resthomes, who aren’t aloud out and can only get two visitors at a time.
        There will be little interaction between the two groups in most cases!
        
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        October 17, 2021 10:27am
  - Prince
    
    Also, you will notice that the % vaxed on Stuff is always 1-2% lower than MOH figures.
    This is because Stuff (to their credit) uses the Dept of Stats population data as the denominator.
    MOH now uses the sum of the DHB’s population data.
    But some people are not recorded anywhere on the DHB’s numbers (the ‘most vulnerable you would think).
    About six weeks ago DOH shifted to their model, with a subsequent 1.5% boost in the % vaxed.
    
    Stuff has the explanatory note in their details…
    
    Source: Ministry of Health
    Percentages relative to 2020 estimate of the 12 population.
    Data as of Oct 15, 2021
    The share of population vaccinated figures previously relied on inaccurate population counts. They were updated on September 1 to reflect Stats NZ’s 2020 estimate of the 12 population. This differs from the database used by the Ministry of Health, which is not a total population estimate.
    https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2020/05/coronavirus-covid-19-new-zealand-latest-data-cases/?utm_source=stuff&utm_medium=hppointer&utm_campaign=the-whole-truth
    
    Watch carefully for more shenanigans coming up.
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:51am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Yep and again as I’ve pointed out before…
      
      PI vaccination rates are very close to Euro rates
      As are Maori 50+ rates
      
      It’s only Maori 12-49 that are holding the overall % down – all across the country btw
      
      There are c.400k in that age range and about 350k eligible for vaccination
      
      Half of them are vaccinated leaving 175k unvaccinated
      
      ie 175,000 are foiling the 90% target – 3.5% of NZ’s population are holding the other 96.5% hostage
      
      1 in 33 people are providing this government with the cloak of invulnerability
      
      If those 1 in 33 don’t want the jab, fine tell your community leaders so we know and we can set a target date to open up and let them take their chances
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:20am
      - bronny1
        
        There was research done after the Seattle church spread last year, quite early on. They were all physically distanced but it was found that the singing indeed put way more particles (or whatever we call them) into the air than most other activities
        
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        October 17, 2021 11:03am
      - bronny1
        
        Actually those people are not holding the other 96.5% hostage- the government is. Those 3.5% have been very clear in their intentions I believe.
        
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        October 17, 2021 11:05am
      - Sacha
        
        ‘let them take their chances’
        Here’s how it is:
        the chances are good, if what we hear from overseas is true – the unvaxxed might miss out on symptoms, or maybe get a ‘cold’, for may feel a bit seedy for a couple of days.
        During this time they might inadvertently share a few virus particles with a vexed person –
        who, because they are a bit over due for their booster, will get the same symptoms, or maybe more severely if their immune system doesn’t jump to their defence.
        Or, the vaxxed person might carrying a little pocket of virus, and generously give it to their unvaxxed neighbour.
        It goes both ways, you see.
        Everybody takes their chances, that’s the way it goes with viruses. Oh, and the other thing is: by the time you’ve become symptomatic, you’ve already been at your most infective, and infected. The symptoms occur when your body is ramping up its immune system and fighting it off. And while it’s distracted, your c0-morbidities can have a ball.
        It’s every man for himself.
        
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        October 17, 2021 11:20am
      - I remember when
        
        Approx 412,110 of the Maori population of around 854,800 are 24 or under, 48.21%.
        Add in the 25-44 age group and it’s 73.82%.
        Apart from the results of living in higher occupation housing, there is little to suggest they have a higher general covid risk than other sectors of the popoulation.
        
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        October 17, 2021 12:18pm
      - WaveyDavey
        
        We have been given a 90% target so yes they are – that 3.5% means that we can never reach the target
        
        However
        
        1. Do you believe that target is immutable? Experience says no
        
        2. That 3.5% is part of the community that says “no opening up until my community is vaccinated” so they are holding the rest hostage
        
        3. Yesterday did SFA towards hitting the target
        
        One or both of 2 things needs to happen. The target needs to be changed to not include that 3.5% or a stick needs to be applied (the time for carrots is over) and my choice of stick is a fixed opening date a la Australia
        
        After that, if you’re in fear for your safety then either get the jab, hide yourself away or live with the risk
        
        As I said quite forthrightly yesterday I no longer care for that 3.5% – they don’t care for me – and if I’m honest if they would just disappear we’d all be better off
        
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        October 17, 2021 12:49pm
    - Stu2
      
      Correct!
      
      But the 2020 popn isn’t the one that should be used. We aren’t vaccinating the 2020 population.
      
      The very lastest Stats estimate is 4.347 million 12 years olds (June 2021). The 2020 health popn is 4.209m.
      
      If we hit the 90% target against the health eligible popn we will really only be at 87.14%.
      
      Expect a shit storm
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:23am
      - WaveyDavey
        
        “This is like playing a game of football
        
        where the rules, which you didn’t know when you started, are regularly changed during play,
        
        without you being told that they’ve changed,
        
        and the goalposts constantly move”
        
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        October 17, 2021 9:51am
      - Prince
        
        From what I can tell, Stuff is using 4.34M as the population – close enough to Stats.
        DoH is using 4.21 (sum of DHB’s). Not good enough.
        I’m expecting some pressure to be put on Stuff to ‘correct’ their numbers.
        
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        October 17, 2021 11:08am
      - Stu2
        
        That should have said 4.347 12 plus year olds.
        I always forget that plus signs are purged
        
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        October 17, 2021 12:17pm
      - WaveyDavey
        
        If you want the numbers using Stuff’s figure then they are +10 days
        
        So 27 + 21 +14 = 62 days
        
        Just before Christmas
        
        It will of course take longer
        
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        October 17, 2021 12:36pm
- Rodney Hide
  
  Hi Benedict
  
  Thank you for the analysis. You have provided the news from Saturday. The MSM is MIA having adopted government policy as their project. We don’t get news or reporting but endless cheerleading and haughty exhortation. It’s nauseating.
  
  Again, thank you and thanks also to our esteemed host for providing you the soapbox.
  
  Sincerely
  
  Rodney Hide
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:13am
  - kowtow
    
    It is nauseating and the “cheer leading and haughty exhortation” is literally what one would expect of the Media Pardy in a smug hermit kingdom , akin to say N Korea today or Albania or Romania under Hoxha and Ceausescu.
    
    Funnily enough , like Ardern, they too were self declared “socialists”.
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:24am
    - Taieri
      
      akin to say N Korea today or Albania or Romania under Hoxha and Ceausescu.
      ———————-
      
      I visited Albania in 1979 when it was ruled by Hoxha. To be fair to Ardern, her Paradise is nowhere near the Albanian standards of that time.
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:11am
  - Philview
    
    Spot on Rodney. The intent of the event was primarily to show case Jacinda. Lots of grinning young people and photo ops. Some of the footage showed large crowds and no physical distancing.
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:29am
    - alloytoo
      
      A superspreader event (had it been organised by anyone other than Jacinda’s crowd)
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:25am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    In another jurisdiction the PM could be impeached with extreme prejudice.
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:42am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    I go out of my way to not watch MSM, as soon as the covid nonsense adds start I change the chanel.
    
    You would think that all the hysteria would be impacting ratings,.
    
    The worst is the endless nonsensical childish ramble from the lecturn of lies.
    
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    October 17, 2021 10:13am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  If we assume the – now demonstrably false – implication that vaccination provides personal inoculation and therefore the higher the uptake the better the “herd immunity,” then the higher the rate, the less justification there will be for vaccination-only access. This stands to reason: if they know by their own records that 80-90% are vaccinated, it makes the concept entirely redundant – there is herd immunity, thus it doesn’t matter who comes in and who doesn’t. Of course, in reality, only natural immunity through virus exposure will provide any lasting societal barrier.
  
  Now, that’s on one assumption, but of course, that assumption is false and is unrelated to the unspoken end-game, which is not inoculation but registration to a ubiquitous compliance database.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:17am
  - PhilBest
    
    That is something I have been saying for a while, does not smell right. Back when herd immunity was first being discussed, eg by Sweden’s chief epidemiologist, there were assumptions that were accepted back then as non-controversial, that even 40% of the population with natural immunity, would start to act as a moderator of spread, and then by the time 65% was reached, spread would be so moderated that the danger for overloaded ICU’s and morgues would be over.
    
    So where did 90% come from, except as you infer, an occasion-seeking, impossible-target pretext for coercion, continued restrictions and abolition of human rights, and the goal of a digital ID and tracking of every movement, for every human on the planet?
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:30am
    - Cinematic
      
      Everything about NZ’s covid response has been extreme. Because Baker, Jackson et al hold extreme views on excess death etc.
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:03am
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      The whole thing stinks. It is logically impossible to accept as valid the conclusions they want us to accept, based on the available premises (i.e. the now quite extensive data, including even the data that governments/CDC et al provide). An alternative conclusion is therefore the only way that it all fits together.
      
      Consider: low mortality rates; ineffective vaccine; massive and unprecedented state overreach; refusal to accept alternatives or any close analysis of their own claims (the definition of unscientific); the very selective and perception-distorting flow of information; refusal to acknowledge natural immunity, which seems to be better; and, in lieu of good arguments, social shaming of dissent (justified, based on all of the former).
      
      An unspoken but easily inferred agenda is being rolled out. But because a great many have only a five minute attention span, are complacent, and don’t want to step away from the herd, it has gained a lot of momentum. “Weak men create hard times” and all that.
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:42am
      - krazykiwi
        
        I agree. There is an illusionist thing happening here, one where the panic-porn afflicted – the vast majority- are intently watching the irrelevant.
        
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        October 17, 2021 9:50am
    - mawm
      
      You are right, this does not pass the smell test! The vaccine has become less and less effective especially against the Delta mutation. This is an ideal opportunity to use an effective treatment (ivermectin comes to mind) of early disease instead and allow the population of NZ to develop ‘wild’ immunity.
      
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      October 17, 2021 10:00am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      What good is an imperfect vacine that does not sterilize the virus.
      
      The vacine is basically a failure.
      
      It is doing more harm than good.
      
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      October 17, 2021 10:20am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Look at Sweden today: Sweden is down to 52nd in the ranking of total Covid deaths per capita since the pandemic began. Almost every other country ranked above Sweden had lockdowns, mask mandates and restrictions. Sweden largely kept its society open, freedoms intact and with no vaccine passports.
      
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      October 17, 2021 2:47pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        They had quite a few die getting there …..
        
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        October 17, 2021 7:19pm
      - alloytoo
        
        Ian Boag said “They had quite a few die getting there …..”
        
        But less that 51 other countries who self destructed their economies and national mental health.
        
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        October 17, 2021 7:48pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Ian, what’s your point? We’ve had ~51,000 die since March 2020. People die. It’s what humans have been doing for eons. The question is centers on whether or not interventionist state policy is net beneficial in the long term. The evidence suggests it is not. By a wide margin, a margin measured in lives and civil liberties.
        
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        October 18, 2021 8:46am
    - Ian Boag
      
      The herd immunity estimates back then were based on R0 estimates of the time. Delta supposedly has a rather higher R0 ….
      
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      October 17, 2021 7:19pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    In the UK right now, the infection rate of all age groups >30 shows the vaccinated delivering more infections per 100k than the unvaccinated. In the 40-49 bracket the rate is more than double. Deserving of some detailed investigation to tease out cofounding factors.
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:13am
    - Northshoredoc
      
      Slightly out of date data but covered well in the BMJ.
      
      https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2306
      
      The conclusions that can be drawn regarding hospitalisation and death are reasonably apparent.
      
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      October 17, 2021 10:13am
      - Ed Snack
        
        NSDoc, that uses old figures and shows a great majority of those identified with Covid were unvaccinated.
        
        The latest figures are for the latest 2 weeks data, and show that as a percentage of the respective populations, the vaccinated are now MORE likely to catch Covid than the unvaccinated.
        
        Quite what these figures actually mean is harder to interpret. One potentially important confounding factor is that it is presumed that recovered Covid cases are included in the unvaccinated population unless they have opted (and it appears that only a small minority do) to have also been fully Vaxxed. If this number of recovered cases is significant, which it certainly could be, then that would skew those figures more than a little. Ideally that percentage would be identified and shown separately.
        
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        October 17, 2021 11:37am
      - PhilBest
        
        Am I right in noticing that the people in whom vaccination is least likely to confer protection, are the very people we are trying to protect in the first place, i.e. the immunocompromised?
        
        It stands to reason, doesn’t it, that if someone has poor ability to generate antibodies, period, a vaccine won’t make them generate antibodies that actual infection wouldn’t have.
        
        Seeing vaccinating healthy people doesn’t stop the spread of Covid, the only option for saving the immunocompromised unfortunately must involve considerable restrictions on their ability to participate in normal life. And in fact many of them live this way anyway, at the best of times.
        
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        October 17, 2021 12:02pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        The data shows vaccination efficacy in respect of hospitalisation and death reductions is holding up well, but less so in the elderly. What isn’t yet explained is the increasing rate of infections in the vaccinated. My hope is that there’s an as-yet undocumented confounding factor rather than AED rearing its ugly head.
        
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        October 17, 2021 1:32pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Sorry, ADE. Fat fingers.
        
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        October 17, 2021 5:16pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “The latest figures are for the latest 2 weeks data, and show that as a percentage of the respective populations, the vaccinated are now MORE likely to catch Covid than the unvaccinated.”…
        
        No no. This is giving me a headache. You are suggesting that the vaccine is causing people to get covid. You are simply seeing Simpsons Paradox. You would reach peak paradox if 100 percent of people were vaccinated. Therefore 100 percent of people hospitalised would be vaccinated.
        
        To suggest that the vaccine is causing increases COVID hospitalisations is absurd.
        
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        October 17, 2021 5:18pm
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Here is a group of vaccinated people in the UK
      
      https://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detail/news-photo/celtic-players-throw-their-shirts-into-the-crowd-after-the-news-photo/1235667748?adppopup=true
      
      and here is a group of unvaccinated people in the UK
      
      https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/four-people-picnic-inside-a-circle-marked-out-for-social-distancing-picture-id1232997868?s=2048×2048
      
      Can you spot the difference
      
      Photos are for effect but the point is that vaccinated people are behaving normally (pre-covid) in the UK so chances for infection are far higher
      
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      October 17, 2021 10:41am
      - PhilBest
        
        That is exactly what I say, but I am making a different argument altogether. I am saying that we don’t KNOW how effective the vaccines really are UNTIL we start lifting restrictions and then people go back to “normal behavior”. So the assumption that that vaccines effect wanes over time (and this can be fixed with booster shots) could be quite wrong.
        
        The vaccine trials did NOT attempt to really challenge their effectiveness by ensuring trial subjects engaged in risky behavior or spent time in risky environments. The trials were carried out during periods of restrictions, and also some of the vaccines trials were done in summertime or not in the flu season in the countries concerned. They did not include people in the highest-risk environment of all, rest homes, and they did not attempt to put healthy people in similar risky environments to ensure the vaccines were really challenged.
        
        I am saying the world is being destroyed by a loss of powers of logic, we have “experts” way up their own asses, who can count the billions of viruses in a sample under an electron microscope, but they can’t frame and quantify a big picture problem in a way that ensures their studies will PROVE anything.
        
        And don’t get me started on the utter illogic of dismissing clinical trials of early treatment protocols on the very front lines of the whole pandemic, rest homes, “because they aren’t large scale or randomized enough”. For Pete’s sake, this is like insisting a bullet proof vest that worked well for troops on deployment in Iraq, be tested on all military personnel including those based at San Antonio and Hamburg before it will be accepted.
        
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        October 17, 2021 5:58pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      NO. You are just seeing Simpsons Paradox. NO the vaccine is not causing infections. I have explained this before.
      
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      October 17, 2021 5:12pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        I accept that there could be confounding factors, which is why I suggested more research is needed. Given the newness of this therapy, coupled with the fact the SARS-CoV-2 spike is a highly pathogenic protein, the potential for ADE or Dengue-like immune sensitization should be investigated. I suggest anyone would be very, very brave to categorically rule out these leaky vaccines leading to increased susceptibility.
        
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        October 17, 2021 5:26pm
- septic skeptic
  
  Well at least we now know these numbers can’t be moved much further cajoling and propaganda. This leaves bribes and threats I guess. Any chance they will choose the sensible option now and announce opening up on 1 December? That might motivate a few more and they would still have 10 days to get the first jab in time to reach peak immunity by freedom day.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:20am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    I wouldn’t believe them, to many lies.
    
    Remember mandatory vaccination was misinformation.
    
    Now what are we getting mandatory vaccination by stealth,
    
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    October 17, 2021 10:23am
  - sooty
    
    Just in time for the luuvies from overseas to enter MIQ and be out in time for the wedding at Christmas. How convenient!
    
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    October 17, 2021 10:43am
- Cassandra
  
  Thank you Benedict, important correction to the figures. So this “victory” is smoke and mirrors, a typical Labour BS story, promoted by its hired – bought and paid for – media.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:22am
- kowtow
  
  See today’s Cactus Kate.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:25am
- G152
  
  The overdone Maori language and participants was the only fault to be found in yesterdays presentation.
  And as to the numbers as presented by Benedict Yu it would appear to have not been a success as was shouted from the roof tops
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:27am
- Yvette
  
  Benedict Yu
  If “there are 4,231,778 people who are eligible to be vaccinated” and Worldometer estimates the “New Zealand Population (live) is 4,873,497” then 100 percent of those eligible is 86.8 percent of the losely termed “Team of Five Million”, and 90 percent of that is 78 percent of the whole population, while the 83.9 percent you mention is 72.8 percent of the whole population.
  Thats about 17.2 percent less than the 90 percent so commonly now bandied about, and publicly accepted as the target – except by Jacinda Ardern, who probably knows that unless we start vaccinating under 12 year olds, we can only ever reach 86.8 percent – that being absolutely 100 percent of all currently eligible people.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:42am
  - Stu2
    
    The target is 90% of 12+ year olds, so the NZ popn doesn’t come into it.
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:11am
  - Lindsay
    
    Stats NZ June 2021 NZ population estimate = 5,122,600
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:48am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Yes, Pretty obvious right from the start 90% is unobtainable.
    Originally PM was going for Max then finally “bandied” the number 90%.
    As we know , It can be corrupted by other factors that can be changed automatically to make 90 % unobtainable.
    Don’t need to be a modeler or mathmatician to see through this deception.
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:51am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      Given that Auckland is at 89%, it is pretty obvious that 90% is readily attainable. Auckland will reach 90% later this week.
      
      As I indicated a few days ago, many nations have reached 90%, some quite similar to NZ. Much of Europe, Canada, NSW, with the rest of Australia rapidly catching up.
      
      It seems that you want NZ to fail to reach the 90% figure, because you keep saying that it is unobtainable, even when the evidence is staring you in the face that it is being attained.
      
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      October 17, 2021 12:37pm
      - I remember when
        
        Wayne “some quite similar to NZ.”
        You mean with a 25% polynesian population.
        
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        October 17, 2021 2:00pm
      - Master Mariner
        
        Hi Wayne, Looking at other countries such as Oman, UAE and Singapore etc with close to 90%.
        I ask this.
        How much of their temporary workers are Fully vaccinated? ie From India, Bangledesh and likes of Pakistan?
        First of all I would really like to see NZ 100% vaccinated ( as I am) but the realities and practicalities say otherwise.
        So heres hoping for 90%,
        Incidently I have very little faith in their target ( But pleased they presented one) ,
        Why you might ask?
        Look at all the mis information presented to date.
        If you believe the numbers then I have an Air NZ defence contract to present to you to repair Turbine blades on a Saudi Ship.
        
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        October 17, 2021 4:25pm
      - NoFax
        
        Are we talking about first dose of both doses as it seems the language seems to shift and I can’t get a handle on it. Also are we sure that’s the target because it seems the PM has had other countries tell her not to set targets?
        
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        October 17, 2021 4:59pm
- Prince
  
  Excellent point Benedict. 30K first jab is better than nothing but well short of the game-changer they wanted.
  However it would never be publicised by the MSM as anything short of a triumph for their patron.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:43am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    The good news story was already written before the event even took place.
    
    2000 at the anti lockdown picnic in the domain but add in the 54000 that support the picnic protest, that did not attend.
    
    There will be 27 supporters for every attendee, or complainant.
    
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    October 17, 2021 10:32am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Watch for the daily first vax rate to drop off this week, the count returning to the mean.
  
  Watch the MSN omit to cover this.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:43am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    The daily first dose rate will slow to a trickle. There will always be some of course for months and years to come. Like someone gets their dream job, or wants to travel, or wants to go to a wedding at an events centre and a hundred other motivators. But these will relatively small numbers.
    
    Let’s say the vaccination rate after yesterday is 84 percent. It took super Saturday to move it 1 percentage point. It might move to 85 percent or even 86 percent by Christmas.
    
    Having said that, 85 percent is higher than I expected.
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:16am
    - Stu2
      
      The past two weeks (Fri 1-Thur 7, Fri 8-Thur 14) saw 104,000 and 110,000 first doses. which was +5.1% towards the target.
      
      I think you are being pessimistic in expecting next to nothing from here.
      
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      October 17, 2021 10:13am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      The numbers will be massaged.
      
      90% has will be achieved when the podium of truth deems it has been achieved,
      
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      October 17, 2021 10:37am
    - Prince
      
      Also, expect those who got their first jab to wait until similar Bribes (KFC, free bands, raffles etc) for their second.
      
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      October 17, 2021 11:15am
  - Stu2
    
    Yes, I’m waiting to see what happens this week
    
    We averaged 16,800 first doses a day in the week to last Thursday, which was +2.8% on the way to the 90% target.
    
    Like you I’m wondering how many of the first doses were really breakthroughs, and how many were what has going to happen next week but sooner.
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:59am
    - GJM
      
      My son got his first jab on the big day. It wasn’t planned that way and he didn’t even know it was on.
      
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      October 17, 2021 6:29pm
- Kiwi Investor
  
  Yes, and the media needs to ask, as one of the most vaccinated countries in the world, why is it we have the most stringent lockdown measures in place than anywhere else in the world? As measured by the OECD Stringent Index and widely referenced Goldman Sachs’s Effective Lockdown Index.
  
  Stop treating us as kids.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:52am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    As I have said before, I think that the Government will continue social distancing, mask wearing, border controls and occasional lockdowns for years to come. Because COVID masks all other problems. That was not an intended pun. ?
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:18am
    - Scooter
      
      Exactly, why do they have to deal with poverty, housing, debt etc when they can just spend the next 2 years keeping covid under control. No wonder they want to to keep it going.
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:44am
    - Master Mariner
      
      “Take away the common enemy and all you get is chaos”.
      
      Covid is the common enemy.
      
      Now, Were have we heard this statement before ?
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:54am
- ecco
  
  Ardern’s only worried about the headline rates. When applying for her UN gig they will only scan the headlines when looking at her cv.
  
  Many second dosers probably held off to score a few freebies. Luckily for Ardern business came to the party big time and donated a lot of stuff for Ardern’s vaxathon. This is despite her having treated them like sh*t for the last 9 weeks.
  
  Has anyone seen Ardern making statements now about wanting nz to have the highest vaccination rate in the world? Can only be to salvage her tattered image. May even be an excuse to keep Auckland locked down even longer.
  
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  October 17, 2021 9:03am
- cas
  
  When i looked at the stats yesterday, albeit before the vaxathon had ended, places like Murupara despite the PM’s sausage non sizzle visit recently, were showing 36% 1st dose. So despite the good stats in some areas there are still major holdouts.
  
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  October 17, 2021 9:05am
  - sooty
    
    At the PMs ra ra events, she might have been better to jab them as they came in the door.
    After the jab, only then can the sycophants meet and greet her. No jab no event!
    
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    October 17, 2021 10:59am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Hmm. Hard to believe that there are many Ardernistas who are not already fully vaxxed.
      
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      October 17, 2021 1:31pm
- Alwyn Poole
  
  Given this information through Pfizer. We should, seriously, now be taking people off the list when they get to 6 months after their second shot:
  https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizerbiontech-covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness-drops-after-6-months-study-2021-10-04/
  
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  October 17, 2021 9:09am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    That is nothing new. Protection against serious illness does not drop much after 6 months.
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:19am
    - Alwyn Poole
      
      Yes – but then it increasingly is a private – not public – safety mechanism due to the increased likelihood of catching it and passing it on.
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:23am
- Kiwi Dave
  
  I was struck by this statement in Alison Mau’s piece; a Maori doctor speaking on Maoris’ approach to health – “Māori need to hear it from other Māori.”
  
  How true this is as a generalisation, I don’t know, but what a terribly self-limiting and possibly unreliable way to seek medical information.
  
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  October 17, 2021 9:34am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    “Māori need to hear it from other Māori.”
    
    Does the following sentence sound racist to you?
    “Whites in New Zealand need to hear it from other whites.”
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:56am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Why, yes it does.
      
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      October 17, 2021 1:32pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    If true, this indicates some pretty extreme racist views.
    
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    October 17, 2021 10:00am
  - Hollyfield
    
    This reminds me of a story told to me by a former work colleague. She was a Maori woman in her 60s, and was telling me about the time her mother was a young girl and was very sick. The little girl’s grandmother took her to the Maori healer, who told her – and these are the words my colleague used “this is a white man sickness, I can’t do anything, you need to take her to a white man doctor”. The grandmother did, and the diagnosis was polio. I admire that healer for being open minded about his limitations, and not being afraid or too proud to refer his patient to someone else, even though that person was of a different ethnicity.
    
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    October 17, 2021 10:06am
    - Sacha
      
      For every good example there is a sad one.
      When I was working in a renal unit, we had a policy of offering transplants to younger people (for a whole heap of worthy reasons) and one of these was a nice young Maori chap who had been on the dialysis programme for a few years and who was doing well managing his health and taking his medications regularly. Every now and then, he would go up-country to the ancestral marae and sometimes miss a dialysis treatment, but he was clever enough to manage until he got back.
      So he got his transplant, and a few months later he visited the marae again. He stayed there and we weren’t worried because he had his medications and his new kidney had settled in nicely. We thought he understood the importance of the anti-rejection drugs.
      Then, he arrived unexpectedly in the unit. He was clearly ill. His blood results showed that his transplanted kidney was being rejected and his body was becoming more toxic by the day. We put him back on emergency dialysis, but he quite quickly faded away and died.
      The ‘healer’ had told him that he did not need to take the white man’s medicine – he had native plants that were much better, and he felt so well that he believed him, stopped taking the meds, and the result was a forgone conclusion.
      I have never forgotten the power that tribal tradition can have over modern thought. I am not surprised that Maori uptake of the vaccine is so low.
      
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      October 17, 2021 11:49am
      - Hollyfield
        
        I’m wondering how long ago this happened? My story would have taken place around 90 years ago. I have been reflecting on the vaccination stats that show older Maori have a similar rate to non-Maori, but it’s younger Maori who are more hesitant. The reasons could be interesting. eg older Maori might be more included to follow authority. But is it the grievance industry that has disenfranchised younger Maori and made them mistrust everything perceived as European?
        
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        October 17, 2021 1:54pm
  - thirteenstars
    
    Oh, it’s stone cold racism.
    
    Why must a Maori hear it from another Maori? Why is the trust higher? Or, put another way, why does the Maori trust the non-Maori *less*?
    
    That’s the pernicious effect of identity politics. A Maori child does not inherently distrust a non-Maori, but a child can be indoctrinated into a belief system that causes them to distrust a non-Maori. And the distrust is based in one thing: skin colour. Imagine the cognitive dissonance suffered by a true believer when they encounter an ostensibly non-Maori doctor but are told that the doctor is quarter Maori (that is, an actual Maori). They are now bound by the dumb rules of their indoctrination to regard the pale skinned, blue-eyed doctor as legitimate despite moments before regarding them as illegitimate. It’s Orwell’s 1984: Big Brother holds up four fingers but you are told to be believe it’s five. And a moment later you are told it’s now four fingers, and you must instantly believe it. Doublethink.
    
    It’s also rolled up in the idea of “Maori science” which is as stupid and dangerous idea as non-Maori science, or women’s science, or homosexual science. So, again, if you subscribe to the anti-concept of Maori science you must take it as read that only a Maori can explain Maori science to another Maori.
    
    Racism, plain and simple. And it’s being celebrated as a positive thing. That’s how deranged and sick our culture has become. And it’s being taught to your children and grandchildren in government schools every damn day.
    
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    October 17, 2021 10:06am
    - Sacha
      
      I disagree. It’s not racism – I think it it is culturally ingrained in some Maori communities. There used to be talk of the ‘warrior’ tribes, and the Maori underclasses which were often the targets of the warrior tribes when they needed fighters/slaves. I worked my whole career in the health field, and it was quite obvious that some Maori were very aware of the benefits of modern health treatment, but others seemed not to care one way or another. They needed endless prodding and reminders. It seemed to be almost irrelevant that they needed to look after themselves – they would turn up at the hospital when they were feeling really ill, and passively accept treatment, go home, and turn up again, agree to try harder, manage their diets, take the meds – but they didn’t. They’d miss out patient appointments, not fill prescriptions, hide from the district nurse who was sent out to follow up –
      It is these people who live off the state, which ‘looks after’ them. They can get by, living day-to-day, with no responsibilities. Nice work, if you can get it and if it suits you, blame those who would take it from you. Cry Racism!
      It is very sad. But it is not for want of trying on behalf of the health professions.
      
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      October 17, 2021 12:09pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Maori spirits shouldn’t be ignored. Maori Healers may well deal with those, not Polio.
      It is this emphasis on Maori spirituality that activism is bringing and Public Servants being required to acknowledge pagan deities that is of considerable concern to me. Unseen does not mean irrelevant but not for messing about with without full authority.
      
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      October 17, 2021 1:08pm
    - Kiwi Dave
      
      I see it as a different, impoverished, ignorant, ultimately self-damaging style of getting information from the the people you trust immediately around you, rather than racism, but I could easily be wrong.
      
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      October 17, 2021 6:41pm
  - Prince
    
    Our country is being divided in so many ways.
    
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    October 17, 2021 11:18am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I see Dr Shane Reti was outworking Alison Mau’s words over the last couple of weeks. He has spent much of the parliamentary recess in isolated communities in Northland vaccinating people, and allaying their fears about the vaccine.
    
    I have great respect for Dr Shane; he is an outstanding bloke, gounded and humble, who cares deeply about people of all ethnicities.
    
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    October 17, 2021 1:35pm
- MCos
  
  If 90% is the goal and lately 15,000/day people have their first dose that’s 0.35%/day.
  Currently there are about 84.3% vaccinated.
  That means 90% will be achieved in 17 days
  However it’s two doses that’s important and that would be three weeks minimum thence.
  
  23-November
  
  Maybe
  
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  October 17, 2021 9:54am
  - sooty
    
    Betcha, the figures for getting the vax are going to be zero for the vax is going to be near zero for the next week or two!
    Who ever was was going to get jabbed got it on the weekend and picked up the freebies!
    
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    October 17, 2021 11:07am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Impertinent question.
  How much did this publicity stunt cost the tax payer?
  
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  October 17, 2021 10:09am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    Tens of millions.
    
    A very expensive flu jab indeed.
    
    Take out the number that would have normally vaccinated that day and divide the rest by the cost.
    
    Then add in that you only achieved an earlier vaccination date of days or weeks for the rest.
    
    Propaganda at its very best.
    
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    October 17, 2021 10:48am
  - sooty
    
    Nothing all the freebies were donated along with the all the luvies time and effort!
    
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    October 17, 2021 11:09am
- Akarak
  
  The unfortunate fact is that the figure given for vaccinations in Auckland didn’t even break 10,000.
  More room for Jabcinda to weasel her way out of reducing Auckland’s lockdown level!
  
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  October 17, 2021 10:33am
- Paulus
  
  Why were so many last week appointments changed to Saturday ?
  
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  October 17, 2021 10:33am
- oldfella
  
  BY, after yesterday’s vax circus hype, I expect today will be an anticlimax and jab numbers will be way down without the free pizzas and hangi, etc, on offer.
  And numbers will probably stay low next week making yesterday’s exercise good for the PM’s ‘feelz’ image, but stuff-all use for the rest of the team.
  
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  October 17, 2021 10:41am
- Over40SingleMan
  
  Well said Benedict. Catus also makes this observation.
  The government has prostrated itself by this nauseating cringeworthy affair.
  Will Saturday’s play school fair can be spun as a climax of achievement by this government? Will it give license to actually set a date to open?
  Dreams are free I suppose …
  
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  October 17, 2021 11:50am
JibberJabber

Wow – the paid for NZ media have really earned their $55m of spruiking for Labour today!!

https://asianinvasion2019.blogspot.com/2021/10/first-dose-failure-and-exceeding-low.html

Auckland? Well Ardern did not even visit the largest city in the country today. She is hiding from it. Forgetting it is there. Auckland just has to wait until the most “vulnerable” are fully vaccinated. Then what? More “For Lease” signs up and shop fitouts being ripped out to save people who don’t even show up to a Vaxathon?

Auckland is fast becoming the scene of some sort of sick social experiment to see how far you can push people who are vaccinated before they find people or classes of persons who are not and abuse them or hold them down themselves and stick needles in them.

The Prime Minister now thinks she can hold the entire city back from normal life, to fluff her own ego yet again and win a non-competition for the world record for the most vaccinated country. I kid you not, this was today’s make-it-as-you-go target!
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October 17, 2021 8:06am
- PhilBest
  
  There is quite a double standard inherent in people who are harsh and brutal enough to be assuming that vax-hesitant people should be starved to death or rounded up in camps where they can be infected with Covid and die – and yet they weren’t “harsh and brutal” enough to get their heads around the basic realities of Covid itself, in the first place?
  
  https://mises.org/wire/age-adjusted-mortality-2004-levels-yet-they-tell-us-covid-worse-1918-flu
  
  It is not as if 65% vaccinated, or some figure well below 90% let alone 100%, would not logically slow the spread down to the point that Covid is a non-event among primary causes of death and certainly no longer a cause of EXCESS mortality.
  
  These people are just demon possessed or something. A sign of the end times. They will be clamouring for the blood of people who won’t accept “The Mark”, eventually too.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:36am
- CJames
  
  JJ The Prime Minister can’t go to Auckland because once she is there she is trapped. She won’t be allowed to cross back across the border as an essential worker. Though she could get a gang member to smuggle her out in the boot of a car. They seem to move about with impunity. Either that or get the travel goss on the sex workers who got to Blenheim OK.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:39am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Wrong. Judith Collins returned to Auckland during the parliamentary recess, then returned to Wellington towards the end of this week so she can observe five days of self-isolation before Parliament resumes on Tuesday; a figure imposed by Trevor Mallard. The PM could have chosen to do likewise, but instead went on a tiki-tour of the East Coast.
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:59am
    - oldfella
      
      And while on the East Coast, Cindy and Jethro managed to get into a bun fight with the owner of her (now cancelled) wedding venue.
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/pms-wedding-stoush-jacinda-ardern-and-clarke-gayford-given-5000-bill-jilted-venue-owner-robin-pierson-says-dealings-insulting/KHSROFLW2FTBJAWYWHOADDN254/
      
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      October 17, 2021 10:46am
  - ecco
    
    Heard an interview with Ardern last week. She said she totally knows what it’s like in Auckland. ‘she’s got family there who tell her’.
    
    Is that the lamest excuse you’ve ever heard from a prime minister for not visiting a devastated city – all of her making.
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:08am
- Simon
  
  Asian Invasion the guid pro quo type of vaxxer. Quite common. “I have taken the jab what’s in it for me. I want my freedoms back or I want to be able to travel”
  The virus is incidental
  
  The vaccine is not about the virus but a way to force the gubbermint to resort previous norms. Hence the pleading for everyone to take the vaxx as the real virus isn’t corona but the clown show out of Wellington
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:41am
- sooty
  
  The Prime Minister and her family, along with her Ak based ministers are not aloud over the border that she has imposed!
  Just imagine everbodies reaction to them jumping the border!
  Open slather, if she can do it, so can I!!!
  
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  October 17, 2021 11:13am
Yvette

Tamaki appeared before the Auckland District Court on Tuesday via audio-visual link on the charges that he intentionally failed to comply with the COVID-19 Public Health Response Order (No. 12) 2021 by organising and attending a gathering in an outdoor place at alert level 3. Also appearing was 57-year-old linesman Paul Thompson, who is facing the same charges.
… [Tamaki] had previously met with Police Commissioner Andrew Coster to speak about the event.
… Following the meeting, Coster wrote to Tamaki summarising their discussion.
Under alert level 3, most non-essential gatherings, where bubbles are intermingling are not permitted. However, weddings and funeral with a maximum of ten people can take place. [1]

So through two communications Tamaki was pre-warned and therefore one assumes his subsequent actions were quite premeditated.

… Judge Brooke Gibson remanded the pair on bail and ordered them to comply with any Covid-19 level requirements which includes not attending or organising any protest. They are also not to access the internet for the purpose of organising or inciting non-compliance. [2]

Can Police or the court show Brian Tamaki’s nationwide announcement that he would picnic in the park at the same time as a next scheduled protest was again premeditated publicity inviting his flocking followers to join him?

Destiny Church leader Brian Tamaki was speaking at midday at today’s Auckland rally announcing he was the person arrested last week over a previous protest on October 2 in the Domain he helped organised.
In a social media video, Tamaki makes unsubstantiated claims about the vaccine’s safety, and attempts to undermine the Government’s efforts to encourage people to attend today’s mass day of vaccinations, which he labels “Sad Saturday”. He also claims “Covid is yet to be proved”. [3] – Quod erat demonstrandum

It will be interesting to see if Tamaki faces new charges – and if so, whether they are “new” charges, or breaking bail conditions of his first charges, and whether either carries the same weight as the other. And if the initial charges fail, do the bail offences still stand if proven?
Or have I been watching too much SVU on Universal Channel?

I am still gravely disappointed the story – that Brian Tamaki this second time had for his picnic ordered, using his Countdown One Card, five thousand loaves of bread and the same number of pepper / lemon crumbed hoki fillets – was untrue. Although it would have confirmed his inability to perform miracles, it would have been a nice touch.

[1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/10/brian-tamaki-pleads-not-guilty-to-breaching-covid-rules-in-first-court-appearance.html
[2] https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300428132/covid19-destiny-churchs-brian-tamaki-pleads-not-guilty-to-lockdown-charges
[3] https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-experts-criticise-destiny-church-leader-brian-tamakis-vaccine-claims/VN3YHNEYQBMKFERNJ7CQ5ULGPM/
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October 17, 2021 8:07am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  Tamaki should run for office. I’d vote for his party, in lieu of any other current party having the balls and moral courage to do and say what is right, and thereby not restricting himself to what is safe. The near-uniform capitulation of the other parties shows how unhealthy our politics have become.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:40am
  - Scott
    
    I support Brian Tamaki. He is the only person who is prepared to stand up to these zero covid zealots who have locked the whole of Auckland down for 60 days and counting.
    Good to see the church stand up for what is right. Unfortunately many Christians support the prime minister. They want to be good citizens. But with this prime minister they just don’t perceive who they are dealing with.
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:10am
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      It’s funny when the low-rent bought-and-paid for idiots in the media and other assorted commentators deride the guy. No doubt he has many faults, but they should take a look in the mirror first.
      
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      October 17, 2021 10:00am
- crackle
  
  Was a pretty big crowd much bigger than media would have you belive maybe a touch over 4000… much broader range of people attending as well although they were more at the margins. Plenty of unhappiness about mandates about, plenty of people I talk to, like me, have a live and let live approach with regards the vaccine. End of the day if double jabbed you’re perfectly safe from someone unvaxxed right?
  Yes a small percentage of them will get very sick and end up in the health system but thats not a reason to lurch into an authoritarian society which is where the daily propaganda seems to be attempting to push us.
  
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  October 17, 2021 9:56am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    If my marketing 101 is correct for every attendy there will be 27 people who support the protest who did not attend.
    
    Do the numbers.
    
    1st protest 1000 to 2000 depending on who you talk to.
    
    2nd protest 2000 to 4000 depending on who you talk to
    
    3rd protest 4000 to 8000?
    
    Plus supporters who for numerous of reasons can’t attend. I was working on both occasions or I would have been there.
    
    But seriously how hard is it to do a head count.
    
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    October 17, 2021 11:04am
  - sooty
    
    But how many got infected by cindys super spreader events throughout the country?
    What’s the difference between them?
    None that I can see except the media, jumping up and down about one!
    
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    October 17, 2021 11:19am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Actually outdoors meetings are perfectly safe, because it is passed via aerosols and needs a certain density to infect, Covid is basically only transmitted indoors. Add to that the effect of sunshine/UV to help sterilise outdoors, and you can start to see that these gathering rules aren’t for safety, but precisely to prevent what Tamaki was arranging, opposition.
    
    Those rules are aimed at repressing dissent, not at preventing spread.
    
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    October 17, 2021 11:47am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Imagine we had applied the same laws and guidelines during the “battle of Lampton Quay” during the Springbok tour.
  When the students deliberately and willfully marched (off their prearranged route) up Lampton quay and started a fight with the police.
  It’s always been OK when the left do it.
  BTW…I was there, for the preparations (days before), where they planned it.
  
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  October 17, 2021 10:16am
  - lifesgood
    
    What about the idiots in the misguided Black lives matter march? What was done about that? Were the organisers charged? If not why not?
    
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    October 17, 2021 10:51am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Molesworth St?
    
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    October 17, 2021 1:36pm
- Yvette
  
  Prosecutions loom following large rally at Auckland Domain
  Auckland City District Commander superintendent Shanan Gray said the gathering of around 2000 people at the Auckland Domain was in breach of alert level 3 restrictions, which limits gatherings to weddings, funerals and tangihanga with no more than 10 people.
  
  As the BFD asks – How many people gathered at all of the “Super Saturday” events? There were way more than 10. Yet the media have promoted those events. How many people gathered at all of the vaccination centres and all of the fast food outlets that were offering food for a jab?
  And how many took off any masks to eat such free food?
  Like Brian Tamaki may ask, in his defence?
  
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  October 17, 2021 10:42am
  - Nickc2
    
    Well said Yvette. How many of these people getting vaccinated were on their third/fourth/fifth time getting vaccinated for goodies? Were records kept and investigated before such vaccinations took place and were there any proof of identity required before computer records were accessed and updated?
    
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    October 17, 2021 1:07pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Good question Nick.
      
      I wonder if anyone worldwide has been poisoned through taking too many jabs.
      
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      October 17, 2021 1:38pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Activists seizing Ihumato and other registered lands are also in breach of the law. How come they get Police help?
    
    Is NZ a now a Police State?
    When did we suspend the Constitution?
    
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    October 17, 2021 1:16pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

The Left speak of the benefits of a net zero carbon economy, including Green jobs.

Ever noticed how those Green jobs never seem to pay very well? Apart from those of the Left politicos, of course.
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October 17, 2021 8:11am
- CJames
  
  Most of their jobs are just temporary construction ones. Nothing permanent. And in MW per employee, they are very low so makes the power more expensive.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:42am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I recall James Shaw refer to “clean green smart jobs” ?
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:48am
- kowtow
  
  I suspect the jobs are going to be in govt depts and the huge corporations benefitting from the largesse of the ever crushed working taxpayer forking out all the subsidies for these “schemes”.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:51am
  - artemisia
    
    Working taxpayers have more options than those on the sofa. No need for them to make a big deal of it, as usual they will just quietly join their mates over the ditch and take their pick of the many job vacancies.
    
    Wonder when the ‘brain drain’ will hit the headlines again. Couple of years from now?
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:02am
- Master Mariner
  
  Green Party takes the main prize for “unintended Consequences”.
  Green Jobs ? They need to learn how to work first.
  
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  October 17, 2021 9:58am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Had a cold caller from a company offering.
  Solar power under a rental arrangement.
  Claims of bulk importation and govt. subsidy to keep the price down.
  “govt. subsidy”, I have heard nothing of this.
  Anyone else?
  I have asked for a quote, we’ll see.
  
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  October 17, 2021 10:20am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    Me to, don’t do it, nothing but smoke and mirrors.
    
    Basically a money making con.
    
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    October 17, 2021 11:08am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The gathering of the clans to lock the whole world down for climate care (Part II Covid-19 saga.)
  
  https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/10/16/failed-serial-doomcasters/
  
  Hypocrisy to match:
  https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/un-climate-change-conference-reportedly-using-diesel-generators-charge-teslas-being-used
  
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  October 17, 2021 1:22pm
fightingtemeraire

The plans for The Wedding are in turmoil. Read the article on Front Page of the NZH and the way that they have treated the owner of the venue they booked 2 years ago.

Hope other Gisborne venue owners tell them to “Get on their bike”
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October 17, 2021 8:15am
- Tony Stuart
  
  What is the PM’s electorate agent doing making wedding plans on behalf of the PM? Electorate agents are employed by the Parliamentary Service to do work on behalf of constituents, not make private social arrangements for their MP hundreds of miles from the electorate. Electorate agents do not normally travel with their MP, especially for non-electorate work.
  
  I hope the GM of the Parliamentary Service is asked to provide a reassurance that taxpayer funds have not been misused by the MP for Mt. Albert.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:26am
  - kowtow
    
    Private social arrangement ?
    
    The Media Pardy will / are already ensuring this will take on the mantle of a quasi religious modern day equivalent of the medieval Morality Play , and all us peasants will be able to forget our sorry woes , for a few days anyway, and be able to revel in the reflected Glory of “She Who Saved Us” and to a lesser degree to the Fisherman , called by the Saviour from his metaphorical Sea of Gallilee to cast his net as he shares in the Good Works of bringing us into the Light ……….
    
    Alleluia , amen.
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:38am
    - Ruawai
      
      We the people will probably get a state holiday to celebrate with the Queen bee and her house moving husband to be.
      
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      October 17, 2021 10:22am
      - sooty
        
        Did the taxpayer pay for the private secretary and the two cooks to go to Gisborne for the meetings?
        
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        October 17, 2021 11:23am
  - Hollyfield
    
    I thought that was the most interesting part of the article. “Pierson said Barabara [sic] Ward, Ardern’s electorate secretary, visited the Bushmere Arms to assist the couple with their wedding plans in early May.” It’s possible the rules have changed, but they used to state very clearly that no work of a personal nature was to be undertaken by the electorate agent. If an MP requested such work, the electorate agent should refuse. The example given was babysitting. I cannot see how assisting with wedding plans is in any way supporting constituents.
    
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    October 17, 2021 8:47am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      And that’s the key issue here; were taxpayer resources used inappropriately on non-electorate issues?
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:02am
      - pdm
        
        It is Labour Inv.
        
        So the answer is one of these:
        1) Almost certainly.
        2) Definitely.
        
        Take your pick.
        
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        October 17, 2021 9:20am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Of course not Tony, nothing our Jacinda does could ever be even thought of as “inappropriate”.
        
        You are on target to be “cancelled” for even suggesting this. Luckily, in NZ “cancelled” is somewhat different than “arkencide”.
        
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        October 17, 2021 11:50am
      - Yvette
        
        Tony Stuart – “the key issue here …”
        
        I would respectfully suggest in fact the key issue here is that the same person involved is this jilted wedding venue owner incident, is Jacinda Ardern, and her other involvements shape our lives – not that any part of Auckland light rail being yet to see the light of day, or the number trees not planted matters much to me – but she is majorly in control of, to use her own words, “the life and death” issue of covid.
        
        While we can live with some of her non-delivery, my elderly friend with 20 percent kidney function, and myself with a few underlying conditions, may not live with all her covid non-delivery, which could actually spoil our lives a little bit.
        
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        October 17, 2021 12:40pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    What is the PM’s electorate agent doing making wedding plans on behalf of the PM?
    
    My thoughts as well Tony.
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:12am
    - Hollyfield
      
      Although it does explain why the PM has said several times she has done very little in the way of organising her wedding.
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:53am
    - artemisia
      
      The Prime Minister had no idea her decision would end up on the front page. And not in a good way.
      
      Should have just paid the $5k.
      
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      October 17, 2021 12:15pm
      - Tony Stuart
        
        The venue owner is now highly unlikely to get a booking that weekend, given it’s only three months away. The $5000 will mean far more to him, after his business has been disrupted on and off for 18 months, that it will to the PM and her partner.
        
        And another point; given that Jacinda Ardern and her Cabinet make the decisions over alert levels, and given that Gisborne is currently at L2 with gatherings restricted to 100 people, was the PM going to ensure that situation changed before January, regardless of the number of Covid cases at the time?
        
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        October 17, 2021 1:40pm
      - Master Mariner
        
        I’d beg to differ,
        This is exactly the plan.
        
        “The Prime Minister had no idea her decision would end up on the front page. And not in a good way.”
        
        This was intended to show how she has “normal” issues as everyone else.
        
        But more importantly its good for the Media ( Propaganda machine) to report adverse reports to show their is NO Bias and believe the rest of the shit show.
        
        For once this an “Intended consequence” to show “Balanced” media reporting.
        
        The Yanks would call a False flag event
        
        Yeah right.
        
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        October 17, 2021 4:37pm
  - ecco
    
    Ardern is a true champagne socialist. Just read the details of her planned wedding to confirm this. After reading that I’d never frequent any of Peter Gordon’s establishments since he’s a good mate of Jacinda’s.
    
    Saw also in the latest Australian woman’s weekly that Gayford is starting to be wheeled out for the publicity barrage/advertorial in the lead up to the wedding aimed at Ardern’s female voter base.
    
    Can expect this sort of thing for the next couple of years. Ugghhh. Will be pretty hard for the right leaning parties to fight this stuff, with the advertising budget Labour throws at this branding and narrative.
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:14am
    - ecco
      
      Will also be urging +1’s company (NZX listed co) not to use Gordon for any corporate functions and use other options out there.
      
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      October 17, 2021 10:10am
      - Mr_Blobby
        
        Book a table then cancel at the last minute because one of you party is not vaccinated.
        
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        October 17, 2021 11:15am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Ah.. Peter Gordon… Castlecliff Boy makes Good…
      I used to babysit his older sisters… next-door neighbours.
      
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      October 17, 2021 10:26am
      - lifesgood
        
        Guess you can’t choose your neighbours.
        
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        October 17, 2021 10:54am
      - krazykiwi
        
        I recall once early in my professional career. Brand new, expensive suit. Prestigious big-5 business card in my compendium. First meeting with new corporate client, and going round the table doing introductions. I’d just introduced myself in the most professional terms I could muster, when my client chimed in with: “Hello kk. Remember me? Mary from across the road. I used to baby-sit you as an infant”. Instant deflation. It’s really hard to strike the right image when your new client had once changed your nappies 🙂
        
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        October 17, 2021 4:23pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @kk
        
        I taught a chap who had bene born same time as my eldest daughter.
        His mum and I were in the same 4-bed ward for a week.
        I didn’t remind him that I’d been at his circumcision
        (performed at day 3- in the ward).
        
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        October 17, 2021 6:25pm
    - Ipanema69
      
      Ecco, like the comment but I actually think the whole wedding thing will backfire on the royal couple.
      
      Firstly todays herald story will go down like a cup of cold sick in locked down Auckland. We cant even plan next week, let alone summer.
      
      Secondly if the wedding is timed for Jan/Feb 22 then its quite likely that we will be in the full swing of our covid epidemic. This will be especially so in the regions. The optics of the nuptials will look terrible.
      
      Politically I dont think Auckland can be locked down much beyond December. When the lockdown is lifted the virus will spread through the rest of the country. Thus the rest of NZ will start to go through the infection cycle several months later than Auckland.
      
      As I say if the wedding goes ahead next year the optics will be terrible.
      
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      October 17, 2021 12:43pm
      - ecco
        
        Jeez I hope Ardern and co open up Auckland well before December. Like 1 November would be great.
        
        A walk down any Auckland suburban commercial area just shows total commercial devastation of restaurants and retail shops. I’d say even Smith and Caughey department store would be on the edge. If they went that would totally decimate that area of town and turn it into even more of a ghetto than it already is.
        
        Point taken re the timing of the royal wedding hopefully the timing truly blows up in her face. After everything she’s put Aucklanders through. It would be karma wouldn’t it.
        
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        October 17, 2021 3:32pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Gayford comes across as a TV disaster. He was very self conscious and out of his depth of crayfish spawn giving a sales pitch on a house. Paddy Gower could have done better.
      
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      October 17, 2021 1:28pm
      - Nickc2
        
        cco@3:32PM Sorry, I reported you by mistake.
        I meant to say agree and bring it on!
        
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        October 17, 2021 3:59pm
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  This reminds me: I have just begun reading Dostoevsky’s “The Possessed” (aka “Demons”) and prior to the beginning of the novel proper, funnily enough, he includes a quote from his compatriot Alexander Pushkin. The contemporary associations are notable:
  
  “Strike me dead, the track has vanished,
  Well, what now? We’ve lost the way,
  Demons have bewitched our horses,
  Led us in the wilds astray.
  
  What a number! Whither drift they?
  What’s the mournful dirge they sing?
  Do they hail a witch’s marriage
  Or a goblin’s burying?”
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:28am
- Scooter
  
  I bet Cindy is fuming right now, at both the wedding venue and the Herald for publishing it (big surprise there). Maybe not a good look for Peter Gordon either.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:29am
  - kevn
    
    @Scooter… Bit of bullying being tried on. Nasty.
    Just got to hope the other Gizzy venues are fully booked.
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:03am
    - sooty
      
      Betcha they run it past her first, before print!
      Or she released it!
      
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      October 17, 2021 11:26am
      - Nickc2
        
        My bet is she released it. All to save herself $5k and shame the venue owner.
        
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        October 17, 2021 4:02pm
    - Paulus
      
      Marae are never fully booked for a price !
      
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      October 17, 2021 1:48pm
  - Ruawai
    
    Probably released by Arderns spin doctors to make the venue look mean spirited charging $5000 k cancellation fee and get the public interested in following the wedding plans.
    
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    October 17, 2021 10:25am
  - Nickc2
    
    What’s going to happen to all those curried, pickled, salted and sun-dried Goat’s Eyes Peter Gordon forward ordered for all Cindy’s Christchurch guests?
    
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    October 17, 2021 12:52pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  For those who do not get the Herald, the article is not premium. I think I should send it to Alan Johns to show what a tight ass this commie PM is.
  
  PM’s wedding stoush: Jacinda Ardern and Clarke Gayford given $5000 bill, jilted venue owner Robin Pierson says dealings ‘insulting’
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/pms-wedding-stoush-jacinda-ardern-and-clarke-gayford-given-5000-bill-jilted-venue-owner-robin-pierson-says-dealings-insulting/KHSROFLW2FTBJAWYWHOADDN254/
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:54am
  - kevn
    
    @Chuck… Anyone keen on a ‘crowdfund’ to support arden and fishing guy? They clearly have no experience in making fair decisions for business owners and just can’t afford to pay the 5k.
    Anyone… ?
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:19am
    - lifesgood
      
      Don’t give the lefty morons ideas. I wouldn’t put it past them.
      
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      October 17, 2021 10:55am
  - pdm
    
    Is Bushmere Arms the old `Hika” Pub – looks like it?
    
    Perhaps they are going to the Jolly Stockman instead.
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:24am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Yep
      
      Waerenga-a-Hika pub, built in 1873.
      
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      October 17, 2021 10:29am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    Send it Chuck
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:31am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      I am drafting it now.
      
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      October 17, 2021 10:04am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Take a look at Herald’s Facebook. There are plenty of people defending Cindy. They say there was no written contract. While I have no time for her the guy would have to show some loss. One thing they have wrong is that a contract does not have to be in writing. I hope other comment on that sight.
    
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    October 17, 2021 11:37am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    Typical this lot couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery,
    
    Is anybody seriously surprised.
    
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    October 17, 2021 11:39am
  - Fletch
    
    Weddings are expensive, and any wedding will set you back $20,000 minimum when you take price per head of guest into consideration. I guess it depends on the number of guests. But Jacinda can afford to pay that, surely?
    
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    October 17, 2021 11:55am
  - Nickc2
    
    Alan Johns or Jones?
    
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    October 17, 2021 12:59pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Johns who is on Sky News.
      
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      October 17, 2021 2:13pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Alan Jones is on Sky News
        https://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/alan-jones
        
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        October 17, 2021 2:42pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    We have yet to find out how Ardern’s electorate secretary got to Gisborne. Did she fly on Airforce one? Was it during a lockdown?
    
    Even using her sounds currupt to me.
    
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    October 17, 2021 1:07pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The cancellation fee seems reasonable. The behind scenes deceit by the PM deserves publicity. She is a sneaky minx. No wonder she can’t run a country, her associates play the same games, tell her what she want to hear and no one does anything.
    
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    October 17, 2021 1:35pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The Gardens at the Bushmere Arms are wonderful.
  
  I’ve only been at a Funeral/Remembrance service there, and the food was ok, but unmemorable.
  The place keeps the weirdest hours.
  
  The next obvious location is Gisborne will be The Vines at Bushmere estate (quite a separate location).
  Food is OK there; service is always reliable.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:57am
  - alex Masterley
    
    Wanui Surf club?
    Struck me that would be a peoples princss kind of venue. Down to earth with the people instead of womans weekly tat.
    
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    October 17, 2021 10:00am
    - 7kiwi11
      
      She is pretty handy on a BBQ.
      
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      October 17, 2021 10:40am
  - Inandout
    
    Maggy, I love your funeral pun..food ok, but unmemorable.
    
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    October 17, 2021 11:50am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  It’s now official that our Great Leader can’t organise a piss up in a brewery.
  
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  October 17, 2021 9:43am
- Surely Knott
  
  Goes full Bridezilla!!! Wants a casual local girl vibe but only wants her international award winning chef ,and now won’t pay the 5k cancellation ???
  
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  October 17, 2021 10:13am
  - sooty
    
    The man should have got a large deposit on taking the booking! Silly him!
    
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    October 17, 2021 11:30am
- Paulus
  
  The local Marae will do it for them – at a price of course, with lots of Kai caught and killed for them.
  
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  October 17, 2021 10:37am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Yes, interesting that the catering arrangements were at the heart of the problem.
  
  You’d have thought that Clarke could provide the fish, a quick trip to the bakery for a few rolls & our Saviour could take care of the catering off her own bat.
  
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  October 17, 2021 1:43pm
Chuck Bird

Like most on Kiwiblog, I am a great fan of democracy but sometimes I despair.

I heard a caller on overnight talkback say that all of NZ should say on level 4 until the vaccination rate reaches 95%. I do not think I have to explain why this is a stupid idea by a stupid person who may actually vote.
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October 17, 2021 8:18am
- kowtow
  
  And therein lies the genuinely dastardly role played by the Media Pardy who have literally been able to scare people witless with their fear porn over this lab escape .
  
  No excuses though for politicians who’ve followed the herd and refused to stand up to the nonsense .
  
  Not to mention the general dumbing down of whole swathes of the electorate in what passes for the education system .
  
  Etc.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:43am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  Why 95% exactly? No reason, of course. These people will do, say and think anything they are told without question. Personally, 95% is a bit defeatist. I think we should punch above our weight and aim for 105%. Who’s with me?
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:45am
  - septic skeptic
    
    110% is the customary effort level on the sports field.
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:41am
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      I’m proud of the boys for really digging in at the end. The preparation was there throughout the week, and everyone did their bit when the chips were down.
      
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      October 17, 2021 9:54am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Full credit to the opposition
        
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        October 17, 2021 1:46pm
    - I remember when
      
      110% sounds great.
      Which particular version of New Zealand’s population do you want to use.
      
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      October 17, 2021 2:11pm
- Nickc2
  
  Unfortunately, they walk among us Chuck.
  
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  October 17, 2021 8:49am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    More unfortunately we few walk amongst them.
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:45am
- Bung Fizzer
  
  I gave up listening to talkback when Sean Plunket and esp Peter Williams ‘resigned’.
  
  As I’ve mentioned before Chuck, I’ve heard you call in a few times when Peter Williams was on the helm and I like your cut of the jib.
  
  As for democracy? I remember when news was impartial and talkback was refreshing regardless of which particular side of the fence you sat, but now, unfortunately, thanks to the $55 million hush/slush fund……..democracy has been well and truly been paid for.
  
  ps, do you or anybody know when Sean Plunket’s starting up his own ‘news venture’?
  
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  October 17, 2021 9:01am
I remember when

Would the media run the story.
Well known modeller SH.T’s modelling of the next election shows that Labour will win 3000 seats.
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October 17, 2021 8:23am
- pdm
  
  Ah – was that Mike Williams?
  
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  October 17, 2021 9:27am
I remember when

Is poor dental care an ‘out of sight’ growing area of concern.
As the dental industry increases the level of modern equipment, and technology, is the resulting additional cost of visits to clients reducing ability to maintain their dental health.
How often does the gap of missing teeth appear when watching the news or out in public.
What percentage of heart disease, cancer and diabities is at least partly due to dental health problems.
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October 17, 2021 8:31am
- artemisia
  
  Very good point.
  
  Someone once asked the question – what is ‘wealthy’. My answer – to go to the dentist without checking the cost, or the bank account.
  
  Wasn’t it a US President who included in a commencement speech – look after your teeth.
  
  Yes, expensive, but an important job for parents to drum in ‘look after your teeth and prioritise the cost even if you hate doing it’.
  
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  October 17, 2021 11:39am
- Ed Snack
  
  Implants are damned expensive, especially if some restorative work is needed. For a lot of people, the 3-5K required is just not available for what is mostly cosmetic.
  
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  October 17, 2021 11:54am
doggone7

An interesting discussion would be between that person and those determined to do everything in their power to see the level not reach anywhere near 90%.
And those disgusted that it’s got any distance past 1%.
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October 17, 2021 8:36am
kevn

@Chuck… Were they talking to the radio host while wearing a mask? Or on the car phone driving/talking with a mask on? Bound to be.
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October 17, 2021 9:01am
Aquataur

I can’t find the link but have been told the media arm of the Government ran a story on the pink haired shrill getting her second vax on the Air NZ jet during the vaxathon, and that she had brought the 2nd jab forward.

If this is true, then she has been exhorting others to get vaxxed while she herself has not been.

Words fail me – oh no. A phrase has just come to mind.

Big, fat hypocrite
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October 17, 2021 9:02am
- Chuck Bird
  
  It would be great if you could find the link.
  
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  October 17, 2021 10:11am
  - Ruawai
    
    https://twitter.com/SiouxsieW/status/1449223737597857796
    
    Try this link, it is on Siouxie Wiles twitter.
    
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    October 17, 2021 10:32am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Thank you.
      
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      October 17, 2021 1:20pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Check Cactus Kate
    
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    October 17, 2021 10:35am
- JibberJabber
  
  Not only Wiles, the chief bedwetter Baker only got his first jab yesterday after scaring half the population out of the what’s left of their wits for 18 months how “we all gonna die” if we don’t get the ~~IGFarben~~ Pfizer experimental kool-aid.
  
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  October 17, 2021 11:46am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Unbelievable
    
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    October 17, 2021 1:47pm
- Liberal Cliche
  
  It doesn’t matter if she was never full vaxed.
  
  If she told the vaxers that eating their own feces would be the magic cure they’d do it in a heartbeat. We are living jonestown level of society, total koolaid tier mindset.
  
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  October 17, 2021 12:06pm
blue collar

Can’t even organise her own wedding …. Jesus Christ what a shambles ….. trying to rip the owner off aswell …. all over a gay chef …. you can’t make this shit up , there goes some female votes … women won’t like the bridezilla strongarm tactics .
Can’t even deliver on her own god damned wedding .
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October 17, 2021 9:04am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Everything she touches turns to shit
  
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  October 17, 2021 10:12am
- Paulus
  
  Nah ! women will still vote for her whatever plus they will see that she has done 90% of the vaccines.
  Biden will show her how – if he wakes up.
  
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  October 17, 2021 10:40am
Maggy Wassilieff

The new History curriculum……missing 500 years of Iwi history.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/new-history-off-to-a-worrying-start

One of my own concerns with the curriculum is how half a millennium of hapū and iwi history has been practically erased. Reading the document, you could be forgiven for thinking that once the Polynesian migrations to the country finished, around the 1300s, New Zealand history went to sleep until the arrival of Europeans.

I wonder why tribal histories have fallen out of the curriculum….

…fear of starting fights in the schoolyard?
…teachers with no prior knowledge of their local history?
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October 17, 2021 9:05am
- cmm
  
  Is there really pre-European Maori history? Isn’t it just folklore?
  
  Written histories are bad enough with huge embellishment and airbrushing. Undocumented histories are far worse and become heroic tales.
  
  You’d not call Jason and the Golden Fleece history, but that’s basically what we have for Maori history other than what can be determined through archeology.
  
  Africa has the same problem too. The only history of any credibility is what archeologists managed to dig up and what others noted in their explorations (Europeans since 15/16th C and Arab slave/gold/ivory traders before that).
  
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  October 17, 2021 9:18am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Isn’t it just folklore?
    
    I’m sure the historians working for the Waitangi Tribunal wouldn’t say so.
    
    https://waitangitribunal.govt.nz/publications-and-resources/waitangi-tribunal-reports/
    
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    October 17, 2021 9:37am
    - Nickc2
      
      Of course it’s folklore. Every time the story’s told, another piece favorable to the cause is added or modified.
      An edict from the Waitangi Tribunal: ‘One should never stand between a bunch of Maori Academics and Lawyers and a bucket of someone else’s money.’ It’s a good way to get stomped in the rush.
      
      8 1
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      October 17, 2021 11:57am
- Master Mariner
  
  With out really knowing I believe you may have answered your question.
  
  “I wonder why tribal histories have fallen out of the curriculum”.
  
  Tribal Histories would pit tribe against tribe and my thinking it would enter the “too hard Basket”. ?
  Personally I’d believe the Moriori Point of view.
  
  19 1
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  October 17, 2021 9:19am
- 7kiwi11
  
  Maybe because they didn’t record what happened and relied on hearsay.
  
  8 0
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  October 17, 2021 9:59am
- KevO'Brien
  
  A bit worried about availability of long pork? The gangs might need to become providores.
  
  2 1
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  October 17, 2021 1:42pm
Tony Stuart

An interesting side-issue to Super Saturday. Simeon Brown has been mocked on social media for being late to get vaccinated, even though at 30 years old, he only became eligible reasonably late in the piece. He got his second jab yesterday morning.

Later in the day, we were informed, again via social media that Dr Siouxsie Wiles had her second jab yesterday, as did Professor Michael Baker; later in the day than Brown! Of course that means Dr Wiles was only partially protected when she did her infamous beach-sit, but of course she has been exhorting us to get fully vaccinated for weeks. Likewise Professor Baker.

You don’t think they delayed their second jabs so that they could get them done on Super Saturday, do you, and make the Prime Minister look good?
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October 17, 2021 9:07am
- Stu2
  
  I think it makes them look stupid, and has no effect on the PM’s image.
  
  The media should get stuck into those two clowns for not walking the walk.
  
  36 0
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  October 17, 2021 9:14am
- Benedict Yu
  
  The last bit.
  
  36 0
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  October 17, 2021 9:21am
  - Tricati
    
    Yep – got it in one.
    
    18 0
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    October 17, 2021 9:30am
  - alloytoo
    
    Indeed, I fairly certain that if Simeon had be vaccinated any earlier he would have been accused of “Jumping the Queue”.
    
    28 0
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    October 17, 2021 9:34am
- Bob
  
  Oh Tony!, perish the thought that the PM of our most open, transparent and honest government; would allow any of her staff, specialist expert advisors and associates, to behave in such an underhand dishonest fawning manner.
  
  28 1
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  October 17, 2021 9:27am
- pdm
  
  Siouxsie Wiles – leading contender or New Zealand hypocrite of the year 2021.
  
  56 0
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  October 17, 2021 9:28am
- kowtow
  
  Again , see today’s Cactus Kate.
  
  ‘The data is a few days behind but I suspect the numbers fell away as people held out for the free food and prizes today or in a PR whoring move, brought forward their vaccines. Surprise who chose to do that. ‘
  
  20 0
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  October 17, 2021 9:45am
- Hollyfield
  
  Siouxsie Wiles also said on twitter she “brought forward” her second dose. Which shows she had her first dose much later than she could have. Interesting, when considered alongside her public directions to the rest of us. Of course, it just goes along with her earlier messages to socialise only via zoom etc, and then meeting a friend in person.
  
  25 0
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  October 17, 2021 9:47am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Brought forward? I do wonder if Siouxsie Wiles had had her first vax when enjoying the beach on Friday 3 September.
    
    12 0
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    October 17, 2021 12:13pm
- crikey
  
  TS: “ Of course that means Dr Wiles was only partially protected when she did her infamous beach-sit.”
  
  Do you know whether Wiles had received her first vaccination at that time, or could she actually have been unvaccinated?
  
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  October 17, 2021 10:47am
nztmc

never in the history of NZ has this political positon been so aggressive to the people of NZ – instead of believing that you will be treated in any other way but a herd animal now you are now have your rights and freedoms removed by our political class – why not get worked up about how this is happening : https://www.facebook.com/hescnz/videos/3357280544397164
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October 17, 2021 9:11am
Taieri

You don’t think they delayed their second jabs so that they could get them done on Super Saturday, do you, and make the Prime Minister look good?
———————

Undoubtedly, being altruistic they deferred their jabs so that all the disadvantaged people from the lower socioeconomic strata in South Auckland could get vaccinated first.
21 0
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October 17, 2021 9:19am
kevn

@Tony… Cynically speaking, of course, just a PR show.
15 0
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October 17, 2021 9:21am
Master Mariner

“Do as I say , Not as I do” immediately springs to my mind.
Nothing more, Nothing less.
20 0
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October 17, 2021 9:33am
Nickc2

Who paid for this fiasco AKA Super Saturday? Was it paid for by the Taxpayer or was it done gratis by the MSM? Either way, it was nothing more than political advertising, and isn’t there a limit on when and how that can occur?
https://elections.nz/guidance-and-rules/for-voters/about-election-advertising/
https://oag.parliament.nz/2005/govt-publicity/part6.htm
28 1
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October 17, 2021 9:35am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I guess this gets around it, different when the left do it:
  “What is not election advertising?
  Election advertising doesn’t include:
  
  .editorial content (for example, news items)
  .unpaid individuals expressing their personal political views online (for example, tweeting about which party you support).
  .an MP’s contact details.”
  
  3 1
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  October 17, 2021 10:55am
- Tony Stuart
  
  My wallet is feeling a little lighter today Nick; what about yours?
  
  3 0
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  October 17, 2021 1:43pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Likewise Tony!
    
    3 0
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    October 17, 2021 2:46pm
alloytoo

Speaking of the eastern suburbs, the empty trailers visible near most launching points that the boaties are starting the season early.
15 0
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October 17, 2021 9:37am
- 7kiwi11
  
  Went to North Head yesterday. I’ve never seen so many boats out on the water.
  
  10 0
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  October 17, 2021 10:04am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  For some boaties there is no season, other than when the tuna and marlin runs. Friends hooked up a few down at Waihau Bay 10 weeks ago
  
  6 1
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  October 17, 2021 11:42am
  - lifesgood
    
    Drove round Auckland’s waterfront to work in the city at 6am yesterday morning. I have never before seen a massive queue of cars and boat trailers at the public ramp at Okahu Bay. Right along the road almost to the Ngapipi lights. Aucklanders are escaping the terror and hypocrisy of Cindy and her toadies and giving them the two fingered salute. It’s time for some fun.
    
    12 1
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    October 17, 2021 1:34pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Jaspinda should be happy. Think of all that Tax and Duty and Levies and GST on all of the fuel used at $2.50 a fucking liter
      
      3 1
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      October 17, 2021 2:57pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Add, it now costs me the guts of $350 to fill my boat.
        Then there is the Landcruiser ….
        
        2 1
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        October 17, 2021 2:59pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Could you guys south of Te Hana please stop talking about “going out in boats”!!!! It’s depressing.
    
    3 0
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    October 17, 2021 5:19pm
Yvette

• Super Saturday has smashed vaccination records with people rolling up their sleeves for their COVID-19 vaccinations today, with 129,995 doses administered – 39,024 first doses and 90,971 second doses as at 10pm tonight.
• Vaccines administered yesterday [15 October 2021] (total): 69,663; 1st doses:14,037; 2nd doses: 55,626

So Super Saturday’s 1st doses were 2.78 times the 1st doses on Friday.

I have wondered about Italy’s hardest hit provinces, like Lombardy, Lazio, and Campania – while funeral directors in these areas have been over-occupied by a so much higher than usual death rate, which has taken so many elderly people prematurely, will funeral staff now face a lull in the next few years because they have already buried those years of clientele?

Similarly, while the hype of “a gloriously Māori-centric show, with te reo at the forefront of just about every utterance” advanced Saturday’s 1st vaccinations – Maori and non-Maori – by 1.78 days (if the same number Friday would have roughly been vaccinated Saturday anyway, without the Vaxathon) and in fact like Italian funeral directors, New Zealand vaccinators may now see a slight dip (more immediate than the anticipated Italian jobs) in numbers this coming week?

It is television; we’re making television at the end of the day. It’s all smoke and mirrors, and it’s all fake, but it’s not, because it makes people really feel things that are real – Samira Wiley
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October 17, 2021 10:12am
- Kiwi_in_Paris
  
  Stupid Saturday.
  
  0 1
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  October 17, 2021 8:06pm
emmess

If regular democracy isn’t doing so well, maybe it’s time to fall back on “Irish Democracy.”

That’s what Yale political scientist James Scott calls the passive resistance of a society that doesn’t like what its rulers are doing to it. In his book “Two Cheers for Anarchy,” he writes, “One need not have an actual conspiracy to achieve the practical effects of a conspiracy. More regimes have been brought, piecemeal, to their knees by what was once called ‘Irish Democracy,’ the silent, dogged resistance, withdrawal and truculence of millions of ordinary people, than by revolutionary vanguards or rioting mobs.”

https://nypost.com/2021/10/14/covid-regime-is-driving-americans-to-a-healthy-noncompliance/

Irish Democracy, never heard that term before but I like it
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October 17, 2021 10:12am
- KevO'Brien
  
  I’m pleased to hear the term: “Irish Democracy”. I think that is what I practice, along with harbouring a latent Irish anarchist.
  
  4 1
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  October 17, 2021 1:53pm
NZisleadbyaCommunist

So they’re going hard out to prosecute those anti lockdowns protestors from yesterday…. It’s on of the state media – NZherald, Stuff, Newhub etc.

Anyone thought of prosecuting those massive numbers of gang members at that ‘tangi’ during the week?
31 1
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October 17, 2021 10:14am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  NZilbaCommunist.
  You might wish to correct your name.
  ‘Lead’ is a metal.
  Led is spelt ‘led’.
  
  7 0
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  October 17, 2021 10:37am
  - kowtow
    
    Capt
    
    When was your promotion gazetted?
    
    or are you just being a stupid boy .
    
    1 5
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    October 17, 2021 10:47am
    - NZisledbyaCommunist
      
      Search Dad’s Army…. U’ll find the promotion was self appointed
      
      0 0
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      October 18, 2021 12:30pm
- Ruawai
  
  Or the massive numbers of people out at vaxathon events.
  
  3 0
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  October 17, 2021 10:40am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Or prosecuting Labour’s pamphlet drop during lockdown?
  
  5 1
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  October 17, 2021 11:43am
CAKE FACE1

Why is Auckland still in L3?

When will this change?

What is the plan?
17 0
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October 17, 2021 10:31am
- ecco
  
  Whatever the Princess decides to do tommorrow for Auckland it will be a strung out affair. Something like – on Friday or Saturday or Sunday 11.59pm we will allow dog walking.
  
  15 1
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  October 17, 2021 12:51pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Does she actually have any say? Isn’t that call exclusively Bloomfield’s in his official role? I do not see how he can consider the PM in making a medical judgment. He cannot delegate.
  
  4 1
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  October 17, 2021 1:58pm
  - CAKE FACE1
    
    It’s not exclusively a medical judgement.
    
    Cindy needs to balance health, freedom and economic concerns.
    
    So far, she has completely failed to do this…
    
    7 1
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    October 17, 2021 2:39pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The lock down order is against the Bill of Rights. However, there are special provisions allowing the CMOH to make such an order, its form and promulgation. This is strict. He is empowered to use his judgement for emergency health issues. But it is his judgement. The PM can have no part in his medical assessment. She and her govt have to take what Bloomfield decides.
      
      These issues are similar to ones dealt with under the Income Tax law. Tax cannot be taken except by very specific provision including delegated authority.
      
      It’s a pity the govt has no sound Attorney General to oversee the rule of law.
      
      4 2
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      October 17, 2021 5:14pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        If only you knew an actual lawyer foolish, or venal, enough to seek a review from the high court to test your ludicrous theories.
        
        1 7
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        October 17, 2021 5:37pm
Maggie Pie

“Cindy called. She’d like her teeth back”

https://twitter.com/patrickgowernz/status/1449289007880232966

😀 😀 😀
21 2
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October 17, 2021 10:35am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, those tweets in response were..well..almost orgasmic in their fawning. I suspect though the Jacinda lovers are a fairly small section of Twitterati. Oh, that photo of Paddy is appallingly unappealing.
  
  12 2
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  October 17, 2021 11:59am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Oh gawd yes I&O, know exactly what you mean!
    
    My partner’s mum had a complete set of ‘Porcelain Veneers’ installed a couple of years ago…… I still haven’t got used to them 😀
    
    8 2
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    October 17, 2021 1:24pm
Fletch

California has shipping containers piling up at the wharf but there are very few trucks that can unload and transport the goods. Why? Not because of anything to do with Covid-19. It’s because of stupid state climate change decrees and union laws.

Twitter user Jerry Oakley reminds us that “Carriers domiciled in California with trucks older than 2011 model, or using engines manufactured before 2010, will need to meet the Board’s new Truck and Bus Regulation beginning in 2020.” Otherwise, “Their vehicles will be blocked from registration with the state’s DMV,” according to California law.

“The requirement is to purchase electric trucks which do not exist.”

[…]

In effect, what this 2020 determination and settlement created was an inability of half the nation’s truckers from picking up anything from the Port of LA or Port of Long Beach. Virtually all private owner operator trucks and half of the fleet trucks that are used for moving containers across the nation were shut out.

[…]

Problem No. 2, again according to Green, is California’s infamous AB-5, the law that, as a sop to the Democrats’ beloved unions, killed the gig economy:

“Traditionally the ports have been served by Owner Operators,” Oakley says, who are non-union. But under AB-5, “California has now banned Owner Operators.”

Just like the union longshoremen, union truckers work under a whole host of work rules that simply can’t accommodate crisis conditions like the ones in Los Angeles.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/empty-christmas-stockings-dont-blame-covid-blame-california

So, basically new rulings by the unions banning owner/operator truck drivers (which many of them are) and new state green rules over trucks have blocked most trucking transport and caused a huge backlog that doesn’t look like it will be cleared any time soon.

IDIOTS.
13 2
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October 17, 2021 10:42am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The empty Xmas stockings will be the fault of one person, and one person only. Joe fucking Biden (plus his puppetiers of course)
  
  4 2
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  October 17, 2021 3:04pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    Yep his Transport secretary has been on maternity leave.
    
    2 1
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    October 17, 2021 4:53pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Let’s Go Biden //
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHIV5T47rOY
4 2
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October 17, 2021 11:08am
gorse

Things must be getting grim with Labour’s internal polling. Stuff running an article today on how Clarke Gayford spends his Sundays. To be frank, who cares?
32 1
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October 17, 2021 11:15am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I did not read, but I reckon Jethro is still thinking about electric utes
  
  6 1
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  October 17, 2021 3:05pm
  - sooty
    
    Electric boats too!
    They will be interesting when they sink!
    
    3 0
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    October 17, 2021 7:57pm
Prince

What $55M buys.
Stuff front page today (I didn’t click, the headlines told me enough).

How Super Saturday was won.

How Clarke Gayford spends his Sunday.
17 1
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October 17, 2021 11:56am
Stu2

There was one aspcct of the Saturday vax push that was not done well – the MoH website.

It showed national and regional vax totals. But not broken down by ethnicity and first/second dose.

That data was available as some channels reported it, but late.
4 0
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October 17, 2021 12:21pm
CAKE FACE1

From Stuff:

HAD 1 OR MORE DOSES – 3,496,757 – 80.59%

I really doubt that NZ can get from about 80% (one or more doses) to 90% fully vaccinated.

The 90% unofficial target was always unlikely to be reached, in my opinion.

Regardless, NZ should open the border on 1 December 2021.

The criterion should always have been – 100% of eligible people must have had the opportunity to get vaccinated. They have.

Since everyone has already had the opportunity to get vaccinated, there is no excuse to continue to be locked down and have closed borders in December.

It’s time to move on…
15 1
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October 17, 2021 12:24pm
Prince

Amongst all the hoopla and self-congratulations of the Govt and media fan boys, David Seymour points out that it’s the first doses that mattered yesterday, and this was the 21st best day for first doses. So really nothing special I’m afraid.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/super-saturday-david-seymour-lambasts-government-after-fun-but-desperate-covid-19-vaccination-drive.html

Of course in these days of plastic people and Govt-funded wall to wall adverts, actual numbers won’t count for much. Still, some of us are interested in actual results.
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October 17, 2021 1:30pm
- alloytoo
  
  I would like to see if the even even caused a blip on the four week rolling average.
  
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  October 17, 2021 7:54pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING…

Melb Cop: “Excuse me sir. Why aren’t you wearing a mask?”

Thick Aussie: “Because I’m drinking my coffee. DUH!”

Cop: “Show me your cup”

https://twitter.com/OzraeliAvi/status/1449307562713649157

(…..the replies are a real HOOT 😀 )
10 2
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October 17, 2021 1:44pm
Tony Stuart

51 new Covid cases today, 28 of which are linked. 47 of the cases are in Auckland, and four in Waikato, in Hamilton and Kihikihi which are not presently linked to the Hamilton/Raglan cluster(f*ck).

The record number for a single day is 88 cases, in March 2020. I expect that to be surpassed this week, and possibly our first hundred-plus day, especially if restrictions in Auckland are further eased.
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October 17, 2021 1:47pm
Aquataur

Another example of the freedoms that are being taken away.

My daughter posted a video of the freedom movement’s rally in Mt Maunganui yesterday.

She added “Aroha Love Kiwi-style protest”

For doing this she has been banned from Facebook for 30 days, for breaching community standards.

At the same time, about a month ago, my partner received a reply to a post where the poster went on about killing whites who don’t belong in [ ]! No action from Facebook

We are being stripped of freedoms at an ever increasing rate. Where is the will to stop this
20 3
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October 17, 2021 2:16pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Community standards is just the opinion of an 18 year old boy in short pants who got his period because something trivial offended him
  
  11 4
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  October 17, 2021 2:51pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Are you drinking enough fluids, Steve? I’m becoming a bit concerned about you.
    
    2 9
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    October 17, 2021 3:36pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      dilligaf about you? Nope
      
      6 3
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      October 17, 2021 3:47pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Well, I care about you, Steve, as a fellow human. I don’t like reading too many angry comments. Anger can be a very corrosive emotion.
        
        2 9
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        October 17, 2021 4:10pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Good item on RNZ’s Mediawatch programme this morning about Facebook & Google antics.
  
  2 5
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  October 17, 2021 3:35pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Melbourne finally coming out of Lockdown on Thursday…..and that’s with just 70% vaxxed.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/australia-covid-live-updates-victoria-to-announce-updated-reopening-plan-nsw-hits-80-percent-vaccination-target-20211017-p590lp.html
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October 17, 2021 2:19pm
Maggie Pie

ZB now….

Have you noticed how that woke moron Tim Roxbrah refers to Cindy as…. ‘Our prime minister’ or as….. ‘Jacinda’?

Yet when it comes to ‘JC’….it’s always just as “Collins”

God he’s a lefty prick!!
21 2
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October 17, 2021 3:45pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Oh Maggie, please don’t listen to radio shows that upset you so much. Try a music station instead.
  
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  October 17, 2021 4:11pm
Nickc2

Geez, I’m really pissed off with that party that went down on Akld’s North Shore last night.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/alleged-influencer-party-infuriates-locked-down-aucklanders-police-receive-multiple-complaints/DS6YIIL34HZDIO25Y4XLPW3GFU/
I didn’t get an invite FFS! How could that happen?
13 1
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October 17, 2021 4:22pm
Maggie Pie

4pm UPDATE…

NZH has just published todays latest 3 ‘Locations of Interest’

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1449576053563928576

In fact I just trawled back thru the last month or so…..
I can honestly say I have never been even NEAR one of them in my life – or ever likely to be 😀
6 2
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October 17, 2021 5:46pm
- dcrane
  
  Not even “Public Toilets Raglan”?
  
  They’re listed for at least 5 separate non-contiguous days from 12:00 AM to 11:59 PM each lol
  
  3 2
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  October 17, 2021 7:53pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Oh’ gawd dc….
    
    ‘Public Toilets’ are up there with ‘Laundromats’
    
    Can u imagine it 🙁
    
    3 2
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    October 17, 2021 8:09pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I like laundromats.
      
      4 0
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      October 17, 2021 8:54pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Really?
        Creeps me out even having to put my OWN partners undies in the WM with mine.
        
        3 2
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        October 17, 2021 9:36pm
Fletch

Video from a very good talk to The American Association of Pharmaceutical Scientists by Dr. Peter McCullough. He doesn’t just talk through a hole in his hat but produces slides of studies to back up everything he says.

https://rumble.com/vnbv86-winning-the-war-against-therapeutic-nihilism-and-trusted-treatments-vs-unte.html

He goes on to say that many hospitals and medical people are ignoring the drug treatments for Covid in favour of a vaccine that is looking less and less effective. We have the drugs, but we just aren’t using them. You can download the slides he uses at the link underneath the video.
6 2
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October 17, 2021 6:03pm

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