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October 21, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 21 October 2021

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General Debate

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mikenmildagain

Happy Trafalgar Day!
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October 21, 2021 8:00am
- cmm
  
  I agree with you MMA.
  
  Nobody in the world has done more for liberalisation, spreading democracy and ending slavery than the British Empire. The Royal Navy was the spine of the British Empire and made that possible.
  
  Hundreds of thousands of sailors (and British Army soldiers) gave their lives and suffered terrible tropical diseases etc.
  
  So yes, it is fitting that we celebrate the Royal Navy (and the Army too).
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:00am
  - PhilBest
    
    They did more than anyone else in history, to shut down the slave trade, much to the chagrin of the supply side of the industry in Africa.
    
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    October 21, 2021 9:14am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Correct Phil. It’s not something that one learns a school that the Africans were (1) selling their own into slavery, and (2) the enslaved belonged to tribes that were slavers themselves! But today, their ancestors are all holier than thou.
      
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      October 21, 2021 12:40pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        And the main slavers were the Muslims – but that’s all covered up nowadays as well. In fact, the Muslims are still at it.
        
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        October 21, 2021 3:43pm
    - thirteenstars
      
      And so they should have, the Brits being only second to the Portuguese in the business of Atlantic slave trading, having transported around 3 million slaves in the Triangular Trade that saw things like weapons sold to West Africa for slaves, which were then transported to the British Caribbean plantations, the revenue from that being used to buy goods in the New World which were then exported and sold in Britain thus starting the whole cycle over.
      
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      October 21, 2021 1:12pm
      - cmm
        
        It is easy to forget that slavery was pretty much part of the human condition until the Brits stamped it out. Pretty much every nation and ethnicity has been enslaved and has kept slaves.
        
        Atlantic slave trading was a tiny fraction of African slave trading (taking slaves outside of Africa) – most of which was the Arabian slave trading throughout Africa, but mainly either through the Sahara or the East Coast.
        
        And all of that slave trading (European and Arabian combined) was a tiny fraction of internal slave trading (ie. Africans taking Africans as slaves).
        
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        October 21, 2021 4:44pm
      - thirteenstars
        
        “It is easy to forget that slavery was pretty much part of the human condition until the Brits stamped it out.”
        
        You’re missing my point. That being that when you’ve been responsible for allowing so much human misery and then you finally decide to do something about it, you don’t get to claim any glory or kudos. All you’re doing is tidying up after yourself.
        
        Indeed, long after abolition, the British government legally recognised the Confederate States of America during the Civil War mainly for reasons of trade with the CSA, cotton, culture, etc. Quite the act of hypocrisy and it’s highly doubtful had Britain not been beaten by the USA in the War of Independence that slavery would have carried on without interruption in the South.
        
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        October 21, 2021 5:33pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    While you are perfectly entitled to your views on imperialism and colonialism, erroneous are they largely are, the celebration of Trafalgar Day is really about ending the threat to (relatively) liberal England by a brutal dictator who thought nothing of the deaths of many millions in his endeavour to rule the whole of Europe. As such, Napoleon ranks alongside such enemies of peace and liberalism as Wilhelm II, Hitler, Stalin and Tojo, while the hero of Trafalgar can be counted alongside Wellington, Haig, Marshall and Eisenhower as the military instruments of a better (but by no means perfect) worldview.
    
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    October 21, 2021 10:06am
    - cmm
      
      Erroneous?
      
      Please point out one entity that has done more to combat slavery than the British Empire.
      
      If the Brits had not come to NZ, there would still be slavery (and cannibalism etc) here.
      
      Namibia (then South West Africa) had slavery amongst the Owambo people until the Brits took over from the Germans in 1915. The German colonists turned a blind eye to it. My grandfather was one of the people who ended it (my other grandfather spent some time in East Africa helping to curb Arabian slavers taking African slaves).
      
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      October 21, 2021 11:55am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        The Christian church, particularly the influence of the evangelistic movement on abolitionist thinking in Europe and America in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth century?
        Probably just as facile as your comment though.
        
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        October 21, 2021 1:35pm
      - Stellaboxer
        
        Thirteenstars. The British government categorically did not recognise the Confederate states of America.
        
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        October 22, 2021 4:27am
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      It’s interesting how myths develop which conflict with, or at least don’t fully align with, a serious and objective critique of historical events. We often end up being presented with a distorted caricature.
      
      Napoleon’s case is a good instance of the victor writing the history. He was just as great a man as Nelson and the Duke of Wellington. Up until Waterloo, Napoleonic France was really only doing what the British were trying to do, in terms of their imperial intentions. Why were the French the enemy? Because they were trying to cut the Britain’s lunch. But, ultimately, Britain defeated the French, so the British got to determine their preferred version of the history. History is never as neat and tidy as we are told. I say this as someone with British ancestry, but it is what it is.
      
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      October 21, 2021 12:25pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I should recommend to your attention Geyl’s wonderful book, Napoleon: For and Against. Warning: may contained reasoned discussion.
        
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        October 21, 2021 1:32pm
      - Man Among the Ruins
        
        What would you know about reasoned discussion? Perhaps snark [edit by Mod, unreasonable abuse], but not reasoned discussion.
        
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        October 21, 2021 2:12pm
      - RockyJ
        
        Interesting point about Napoleon. Wellington said that he would be remembered as the general who defeated Napoleon but Napoleon would be remembered in his own right.
        For the record Napoleon is recognised as the general who has fought and won the most battles in history ever.
        
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        October 21, 2021 2:30pm
      - Man Among the Ruins
        
        RockyJ
        Yes, it would only be an extreme bias that would prevent Napoleon’s recognition as a great political and military leader, for better or worse, on the basis of his lasting transformative impact. He is probably the – or one of the – greatest such transformative figure(s) since Octavian/Augustus.
        
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        October 21, 2021 2:57pm
  - rangitoto
    
    Yep. The British Empire was the greatest force for good in history. Imagine how bad things would be now if it never happened.
    
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    October 21, 2021 12:09pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Imperialists are generally co0onvinced that their empires are good things, especially for the subject peoples, whose views on the question are not so reliably positive.
      
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      October 21, 2021 1:38pm
      - rangitoto
        
        Yeah, they preferred to carry on with their slave trading and cannibalism.
        
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        October 21, 2021 3:24pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Well, many empires traded slaves. I’m not so aware of empires where cannibalism was a central feature. Aztecs?
        
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        October 21, 2021 6:03pm
  - thirteenstars
    
    For those who like nautical fiction there is no greater recommendation than Patrick O’Brian’s Aubrey-Maturin series. Not only is it thrilling stuff but it’s very fine literature.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey%E2%80%93Maturin_series
    
    Set during the Napoleonic Wars and written over 30 years across 20 novels, O’Brian created a world rich in history, culture, drama, romance and humour. It’s a world you can get lost in. A magnificent triumph. A glorious treasure.
    
    NB: make sure you read them in order.
    
    The 2003 movie, Master and Commander, was based on three of the novels. Russell Crowe knocked it out of the park as Captain Jack Aubrey.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMv_LOGMZN0
    
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    October 21, 2021 1:22pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Seconded. Better even than C S Forester.
      
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      October 21, 2021 3:29pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  Talking of British battles looks like COP26 has met its Waterloo. In Oz the Nats wont sign up to the Liberals proposal. In the US the Senator for West Virginia( a coal state wont sign up to Bidens proposals and he needs all 50 Senators to agree to it.
  
  China wont be signing anything neither will Russia neither will India. So the worst emitters wont be signing up to whatever is proposed.
  
  Meanwhile Jimmy Two Mums will sign up to anything and in doing will destroy the New Zealannd economy. For what? To save the planet?
  
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  October 21, 2021 10:12am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    to secure his job. What does he care if it costs NZ billions, so long as he is trousering a couple of hundred k a year.
    
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    October 21, 2021 11:28am
    - namron
      
      Wanting a new job?
      I stumbled across this!
      With all of the opposition from most of the Councils,
      hard to believe they would start filling these 130+ jobs!!!
      https://www.seek.co.nz/Three-Waters-jobs
      
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      October 21, 2021 12:08pm
- Frank the tank
  
  I think Hundy Thursday is more apt Mike.
  
  The Narcissist on the 9th floor will be seething that the peasants in Auckland haven’t been following her rules.
  
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  October 21, 2021 1:14pm
PhilBest

Good news. NZ’s biggest Covid cluster so far, 387 cases from a church service, has resolved with one death and 386 recoveries.

The environment was a typical high-risk one for superspreading, especially given the focus on singing and fervent vocalization in the congregation concerned.

Obesity, diabetes and other co-morbidities are prevalent in the community concerned. Rates of vaccination are low.

I will repeat again; if this happened somewhere else in the world that did not have NZ’s many natural advantages, this cluster would have had very much worse outcomes.

Quite possibly the church concerned was well ventilated and airy, but the Inspector Lestrades that comprise our “public health experts” aren’t interested in actual science or getting to the bottom of mysteries like the seeming randomness of Covid impact. Heaven forbid, church-goers might expect to be allowed to worship again if they apply science to de-risking the environment!
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October 21, 2021 8:00am
- NoFax
  
  So a death rate of 0.25 – yeah it certainty appears deadly.
  
  Every piece of news I hear the more Plan B are proven correct.
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:47am
  - R
    
    NoFax
    
    You missed a couple of zeroes. The death rate for 1 death in 387 cases is .0025. In other words 99.75% of those with the virus survived.
    
    The reality doesn’t match the hype.
    
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    October 21, 2021 1:07pm
    - NoFax
      
      I meant to write 0.25%
      
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      October 21, 2021 4:16pm
  - PhilBest
    
    That’s a death rate of 0.25% in the worst-case cluster. I have shown calculations on Kiwiblog more than once that makes it look like the NZ-wide IFR for Delta is going to be something like 0.05%. I calculated this based on the first 2020 wave data and knowledge since about spread being probably six times wider than we detected.
    
    We have two deaths so far in 2021 for thousands of Delta infections.
    
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    October 21, 2021 1:14pm
    - Spoff
      
      Be careful. You too could be cancelled. Your estimate matches that of French vaccine expert Professor Christian Perronne.
      Professor Perronne is Head of the Medical Department at Raymond Poincaré Hospital in Garches, the teaching hospital for the University of Versailles-St Quentin near Paris. He was the University’s Head of Department for Infectious and Tropical Diseases from 1994 onwards, but was fired from that position a few months ago. He is a Fellow of France’s biomedical research centre of world standing, the Institut Pasteur, from which he graduated in bacteriology and virology and where he served as Deputy Director of the National Reference Centre for Tuberculosis and Mycobacteria until 1998.
      He has chaired many top-level health committees, including the French Specialist Committee for Communicable Diseases, and the High Council on Public Health (French acronym: HCSP), which advises the government on public health policy and vaccination policy. He is not anti-vaccine and indeed wrote France’s vaccination policy for many years, as well as presiding over the National Consultation Group on Vaccination, also known as the Technical Committee on Vaccination (CTV).
      Professor Perronne was also the Vice-President of the European Advisory Group to the World Health Organisation. At national level in France, he has chaired the Infectious and Tropical Diseases Teaching College (CMIT), the Infectious Diseases Federation (FFI, which he co-founded), the High Council for Public Hygiene (CSHP), and the National Medical and Healthcare products Safety Agency (ANSM, previously AFSSAPS), which evaluates the health risks of medicines and is France’s sole regulator of biomedical research. Until 2013, he sat on the Scientific Council of the French Microbiology and Infectious Diseases Research Institute (IMMI/INSERM).
      Despite Professor Perronne’s extensive knowledge and experience of communicable diseases, vaccines and vaccine policy at national and governmental level in France, he was quickly censored for speaking out on the subject of Covid-19 vaccines, their claimed efficacy and their identifiable risks. In short, he was professionally sidelined, his reputation was attacked and his professional opinions were censored.
      https://www.ukcolumn.org/video/frances-long-time-vaccine-policy-chief-covid-policy-is-completely-stupid-and-unethical
      I advise you and Peronne to dye your hair electric pink.
      
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      October 22, 2021 7:55am
PhilBest

Maurice De Hond’s blog is definitely one of the best in the world on Covid – he personally was correct earlier than anyone else about “how Covid spreads” and has remained ahead of everyone else about the complexities involved.
https://www.maurice.nl/
Use Google Translate.
The top three postings right now are all goodies:
“Vaccine Protection Against Infection In The Elderly Has Almost Disappeared”
“The False Safety of the Coronapass In Practice”
“The Ivermectin Information War”
DeHond’s argument about the false sense of security given by the vaccines, is the same as I have been saying from intuition. The risk of the environment still matters, and people assuming they are safe because vaccinated, can bring a “breakthrough infection” on themselves by spending too long in a high-risk environment. The vaccine trials never proved anything about effectiveness against a range of environment risk, because the official expert orthodoxies were clueless about this, and still are.
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October 21, 2021 8:01am
- Random T Person
  
  The vaccine isn’t about safety, it’s about political convenience. That is how the politburo gets away with the lockdown bullshit we’ve endured for so long.
  1 out of 387 died, eh. Doesn’t sound deadly to me. And those 387 are probably a bunch of smoking fatties, too.
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:04am
  - Matt Long
    
    Probably not smokers in a PI Church.
    
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    October 21, 2021 10:19am
- Simon
  
  “Vaccine Protection Against Infection In The Elderly Has Almost Disappeared”
  
  Yep the vaxxs vs the virus is a changing scenario. The vaccines aint that good and virus adapts. The trend is all bad for the vaccine zealots.
  
  Its gone from the vaccine is this amazing tested 95% to 100% cure all to well it stops some people from going to hospital. No explanation how the vaxxs dont prevent people getting the virus and passing it on.
  
  Only cretins, like the fuckwits out of Wellington, claim absolutes when dealing with something like corona from the natural world. “vaccines are the gold ticket” What a fucking moron.
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:24am
PhilBest

Every weekly update from William Briggs is worth reading. In the latest one, he joins the pile-on over “waning vaccine effectiveness”.
https://wmbriggs.com/post/37824/
Heck, there are too many items of importance that Briggs discusses, to summarize here. His weekly updates are often like this; an atomic-bomb-sized blast of enlightenment, delivered in his unique whimsical style. Kiwibloggers could spend a whole thread discussing the contents here.
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October 21, 2021 8:01am
Maggy Wassilieff

Got $20,000 to spare?

Newsroom needs it for its fact-driven climate change reporting.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/newsroom-heading-to-worlds-climate-summit-can-you-help-fund-our-climate-reporting
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October 21, 2021 8:02am
- Don Beckett
  
  Just ask Jacinda – she’ll provide it with all sorts of strings attached.
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:03am
  - pdm
    
    No No DB – Jacinda willonly have one command.
    
    `You will report this exactly as I or Jimmy Shaw tells you to.
    
    As an aside I seem to be banned at stuff for trying to tell the truth which mostly was different from their line on the government etc. No correspondence whatsoever from them.
    
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    October 21, 2021 8:54am
  - Maxx
    
    Despite Labour claiming having targets or metrics of some sort to measure performance leading to perverse inventives and shouldn’t be used, I am without doubt there are metrics kept on media outlets / reporters with access and favour given out preferentialy.
    
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    October 21, 2021 9:12am
- Chuck Bird
  
  How much CO2 will will that add to bring us close ot the end of the world?
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:06am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Thanks Maggy. Newsroom does a great job. Here is the link straight to the donation page:
  https://www.newsroom.co.nz/donations
  Your donation will also subscribe you to Newsroom’s supporter newsletter.
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:08am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Your donation
    
    So sad… I’ll be putting it towards a new supply of plastic bags, a larger ice car and (maybe) a frolic overseas.
    
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    October 21, 2021 8:38am
    - Phronesis
      
      Maggy, an ICE car? Is that one with the Indonesian Coal Engine. Like a Tesla or a Leaf?
      
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      October 21, 2021 9:54am
    - Ehlana
      
      an ice car? are you expecting a new ice age?
      
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      October 21, 2021 9:56am
    - Local Miller
      
      I hope some people are being sarcastic here, but for the record, ICE = Internal Combustion Engine
      
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      October 21, 2021 11:00am
    - Jack5
      
      Newsroom gets taxpayer support through the Public Interest Journalism Fund.
      
      That is, Newsroom is on Jacindarella’s gift list.
      
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      October 21, 2021 11:14am
    - Doc Holliday
      
      That’s okay, I just made a donation on your behalf.
      
      Tell me, what does Con think – do I need to up my contribution or is he rational and better informed?
      
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      October 21, 2021 8:16pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Don’t they get enough sweepings from Cinder’s fireplace already? Do people now have to pay for their own indoctrination?
    It’s not on my viewing list anyway.
    
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    October 21, 2021 8:50am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Lol mike, with the majority of journo’s being leftists, the last thing anyone should be doing is donating to them. In fact, donations to everything should cease forthwith. After all, most of the entities that one donates to, support left leaning Governments. And left leaning Governments do their best to restrict property rights and tax. So why would anyone in their right mind give donations to organisations or people that support|vote in a Government that disadvantages them?
    
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    October 21, 2021 8:51am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Tax payers union. Act are still good options. money for media should go to decent non-leftie bloggers.
      
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      October 21, 2021 11:29am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Giving money to politicians and political activists has its place, I’m sure, but it’s not the same as journalism, is it?
        
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        October 21, 2021 3:39pm
  - cmm
    
    It is funny how they expect donations.
    
    The last thing that would occur to any of them is actually earning anything.
    
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    October 21, 2021 9:04am
- G152
  
  You cant use Newsroom and fact in the same sentence
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:33am
  - Colville
    
    You cant use Newsroom and fact in the same sentence
    
    Yeah you can.
    
    Its a fact that Newsroom is shyte.
    
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    October 21, 2021 9:46am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  I’m a little surprised it’s not James looking for “crowd funding” – oops – forgot he’s already got it.
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:33am
- Master Mariner
  
  “But we know the value of reporting on the ground. Beyond Glasgow, we’re aiming to do more on-the-ground climate reporting than ever.”
  
  How the hell are they going to get into MIQ?
  
  I know, Some are more equal than others.
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:36am
- alex Masterley
  
  No thanks.
  Need a new mainsail for my yacht…
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:41am
  - Tarquin North
    
    I know how you feel I’m in the throws of blowing 8 grand on a head sail – and it’s not that flash.
    
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    October 21, 2021 9:53am
- Aunty
  
  Thanks, Maggy. I am pleased to inform you that I have made a donation to the newsroom for this vitally important cause. In deciding how much to give I thought I should have regard for the newsroom’s reputation as a quality news producer and the many fine examples of its outstanding journalism, and donating in proportion to that. So I donated $0. I thought that was a very fair amount to give all things been considered. Slightly generous too. Thanks for the link!
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:07am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Goodness me Aunty. You could at least have made it your ‘2 cents worth’. 😉
    
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    October 21, 2021 10:18am
- Ruahine
  
  Interesting that the God known as Climate Change is always demanding more money.
  This Climate Change god could show the Aztecs a thing or too about sacrifices.
  https://www.science.org/content/article/feeding-gods-hundreds-skulls-reveal-massive-scale-human-sacrifice-aztec-capital
  
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  October 21, 2021 10:13am
- The Feed
  
  Pay for climate porn through taxes, and now the “opportunity” to fund it directly!
  
  One almost admires the cheek of it. Almost. But not really.
  
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  October 21, 2021 3:07pm
PhilBest

Nebraska Attorney General comes down on the side of Ivermectin truth
https://ago.nebraska.gov/sites/ago.nebraska.gov/files/docs/opinions/21-017_0.pdf
The whole thing is like a definitive “paper” on the subject
Meanwhile we have our own “experts” still saying Ivermectin is “unsafe” and unproven against Covid.
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October 21, 2021 8:02am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Ivermectin was ~~cancelled~~ because it prevented the FDA from authorising the emergency use of the “vaccines”which some associates had investments in.
  Grand malfeasance.
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:58am
  - PhilBest
    
    [deleted, KB does not play host to conspiratorial claims – Mod]
    
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    October 21, 2021 9:21am
    - Don Beckett
      
      So Phil, it looks like our mods are cancelling opinions of other people when it doesn’t match their/the govt/the current zietgeist opinion.
      I wonder what protocol you transgressed?
      
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      October 21, 2021 11:51am
      - PhilBest
        
        Let’s repost, omitting some crucial words and phrases: draw your own conclusions. Is it factual or not, that
        
        “…On March 19, 2020, Public Health England (PHE) quietly downgraded Covid-19 from a High Consequence Infectious Disease (HCID) four days before locking the entire country down…”
        
        Or that “…On the government website page where PHE declares the downgrade….the main article, titled “Management of Hazard Group 4 viral haemorrhagic fevers and similar human infectious diseases of high consequence”, includes ‘Section 6 – Public Health actions’, and:
        
        ‘10. It is a public health responsibility; to consider antiviral prophylaxis, and arrange as necessary.’
        
        In short, if Covid-19 had not been downgraded from a HCID, the UK government would have been required by its own regulations, to make available cheap, safe and effective treatments for Covid-19.
        
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        October 21, 2021 1:19pm
    - RichardX
      
      PhilBest
      [deleted, KB does not play host to conspiratorial claims – Mod]
      
      OCTOBER 21, 2021 9:21AM
      
      Examples of conspiratorial claims hosted by KB in GD today
      
      KevO’Brien
      Ivermectin was cancelled because it prevented the FDA from authorising the emergency use of the “vaccines”which some associates had investments in.
      Grand malfeasance.
      OCTOBER 21, 2021 8:58AM
      
      KevO’Brien
      Try explaining the data packages captured during the cyber attack. It looks very much like Trump was denied votes by a foreign power. That suggests a coup but the show continues with their assisted Biden at the helm.
      OCTOBER 21, 2021 11:47AM
      
      KevO’Brien
      …Now that we know that Ardern is marching to the WEF program orders we are really under external control.
      
      Drastic action is needed to immediately terminate this present regime. (If the Opposition Parties resigned that could bring matters to a head.)
      OCTOBER 21, 2021 9:32AM
      
      KevO’Brien
      A look at the WEF working for your future:
      https://www.globalresearch.ca/testaments-blood-samples-establish-global-dna-data-bank/5759083
      OCTOBER 21, 2021 9:33AM
      
      Seems to be a common thread here….
      
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      October 21, 2021 12:37pm
      - Batman
        
        The moderation can never be perfect. We try to be consistent but there will always be some variation! We’re humans not automatons.
        
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        October 21, 2021 2:19pm
      - RichardX
        
        Thanks Batman. I also understand not all comments are moderated.
        
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        October 21, 2021 2:34pm
      - Batman
        
        Yes, there is a very short list of people who have that ability but they’re the uncontroversial type, shall we say 🙂
        
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        October 21, 2021 2:37pm
      - Okahu
        
        And krazy!
        
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        October 21, 2021 3:05pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        It’s not a conspiracy when public announcements are made. We are living in a very mixed up world.
        
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        October 21, 2021 9:59pm
Benedict Yu

This is pretty silly really. Looks like the key hospitality associations want the government to simply mandate vaccination certificates for all hospitality venues, or otherwise provide some kind of legal indemnities.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/126718985/businesses-want-government-advice-on-whether-they-can-ban-customers-unvaccinated-against-covid19

I’m all in favour of businesses making their own decisions. Anyway case law will probably determine fairly quickly that venues can exclude the unvaccinated. The government should stay out of it. Of course they won’t. Not this government.

This bit made me laugh.

“You really need the Government to provide the legal cover if you are going to open up to litigious American travellers to come into New Zealand.”

As if an unvaccinated American will ever set foot in New Zealand again. You can relax.
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October 21, 2021 8:07am
- artemisia
  
  I arrange a regular meeting at a local café. If the café says vaxed only, we’ll go elsewhere because I am not asking vax status.
  
  Eventually covid will no longer be an issue but we will still be meeting somewhere else.
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:15am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    TBH I think you will find it difficult to find any venue that will accept you.
    
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    October 21, 2021 8:54am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      What about somebody making a booking and then cancelling it at the last minute because one of their party is not vaccinated.
      
      Had no idea that hospitality was so profitable that they can just turn away business.
      
      Maybe they can charge extra to the vaccinated to offset the loss of business.
      
      Let’s say a 20 to 25% surcharge for vaccinated customers.
      
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      October 21, 2021 9:14am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        It won’t work like that. If Uncle Tom is not vaccinated, he won’t get invited to family dinners.
        
        Secondly, the unvaccinated are predominantly the marginalised, the young, and Maori. None of those groups spend much on restaurants. So sports bars and suburban pubs where Maori hang out – you won’t need to be vaccinated. More upmarket eating places, wine bars etc. Close to 100 percent of those places will be vaccinated only.
        
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        October 21, 2021 11:06am
    - artemisia
      
      You may be correct Benedict. Fortunately the group is educated, well off and mobile. Guess we can work something out. Meanwhile the café is happy to take our money provided masks are worn entering and leaving. Daft as they come right off when sitting down, but not a major inconvenience.
      
      Though one day the country will be at ‘green’ and all the current restrictions will quietly atrophy in practice if not in law.
      
      Until the next pandemic.
      
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      October 21, 2021 10:46am
    - SilverSurfer
      
      I know of more than a few cafes up my way that will be welcoming the unwashed with open arms, nature hates a vacuum BY where there is a demand there will be supply.
      
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      October 21, 2021 11:13am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    Why would you refuse entry to your net profit margin.
    
    How many of these struggling hospitality business could handle a 10 to 20% drop in patronage.
    
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    October 21, 2021 9:08am
    - PhilBest
      
      More to the point, just as during the Civil Rights era in the USA some businesses declared themselves open to blacks, and honorable white people patronized those places along with the blacks, there is an opportunity for establishments to declare themselves open to the unvaxxed.
      
      The great MLK used to plead with his fellow activists to understand that “capitalism is not our enemy” and “we are customers too”.
      
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      October 21, 2021 9:23am
      - Batman
        
        The correct equivalent would be businesses declaring themselves open to racists and segregationists during that era. The unvaccinated are not a discriminated against minority, they’re a minority spreading death and sickness.
        
        Only the victim mentality leads them to think otherwise.
        
        Whatever happened to the argument around the rights of businesses to refuse to make gay wedding cakes or serve trans people? Out the window as soon as it wasn’t convenient.
        
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        October 21, 2021 10:37am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Batman re “The unvaccinated are not a discriminated against minority, they’re a minority spreading death and sickness.”
        
        And who pray tell, are they spreading this “disease and sickness” to? The vaccinated? Nope. Why it’s the people who have weighed things up and decided they’ll take the risk of getting covid without a vaccination! Most of them will get covid (eventually) and by all accounts get superior immunity to the vaccines. Some will die. Some dangerous drivers will die and some of them will kill innocent road users. Do we pause all driving until everyone has been sufficiently medicated/indoctrinated/screened for not being a dangerous cretin on the road? Nope.
        
        You’re at levels of vaccination now where the “deadliness” is in the same ballpark as seasonal flu. We don’t do witch hunts (or lockdowns) on the un-vaccinated for seasonal flu regardless of how bad it is. And there have been recent years where it’s been bad (think swine flu).
        Hell we barely even blink when hundreds or thousands die in a bad flu season! Just chuck those death stats under the carpet and move on to the next news item!
        Oh and “long covid”? That occurs with lots of other respiratory illness too. There seems to be a pathology with the left where once the doom narrative has been started they like to pile on and keep spinning it regardless of the absurdity of it all. Apparently just because the right have the temerity to point at the emperor’s nakedness. More doom mongering brings more red and green tape to “protect the dumb evil masses” of course. And for the professional doomer/trougher network that earn a living off doom mongering, what’s not to like!!!
        
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        October 21, 2021 4:18pm
    - mawm
      
      The problem is that not many people in NZ will avoid places that mandate vaccines.
      
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      October 21, 2021 9:26am
      - Mr_Blobby
        
        As B Yu said
        
        “If Uncle Tom is not vaccinated, he won’t get invited to family dinners.”
        
        This unvaccinated Uncle Tom/Dad normally gets to pick up the bill, so there could be distinct advantages for by wallet.
        
        Most people I know understand and respect my pro choice views.
        
        I have one client making noises and as soon as they make an issue of it, condition of work etc, I will be on my way.
        
        They have not pushed it because they need me far more than I need them.
        
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        October 21, 2021 11:23am
      - Batman
        
        Lovely to see so many coming out in favour of bodily autonomy. You’ll be more popular with the ladies if you make it more widely known!
        
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        October 21, 2021 12:01pm
      - mawm
        
        Apologies Mr Blobby I mistakenly clicked “report”.
        
        My physiotherapist sent out an email saying only vaccinated clients. I know he is struggling financially but I’m in the market for a new one. His choice.
        
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        October 21, 2021 3:22pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      The dynamics will be more complex. If a cafe advertises that it is “vaccinated only” it will attract way more customers than the cafe next door that accepts unvacincated customers. I would expect over 90 percent of venues to be “vaccinated only”.
      
      As I am vaccinated I will go anywhere. I’m just offering my opinion of how the market will react. Don’t forget that the unvaccinated are about to be demonised. Hospo venues will quickly follow suit with the Government (and the Opposition) cheering them on.
      
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      October 21, 2021 9:27am
      - Mr_Blobby
        
        So 90% of cafes and restaurants will get “way more customers.”
        
        Whilst the 10% unvaccinated and their vaccinated family and friends will go to the other 10% of cafes and restaurants.
        
        Low value labour supporters will probably go to KFC or maccas.
        
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        October 21, 2021 9:42am
      - Aquataur
        
        ‘unvaccinated demonised’
        
        Agree that this will happen, but I for one (who is vaccinated) will not support any business who does this. I’m with the Danes who all wore yellow stars in the last mass demonisation by a totalitarian state
        
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        October 21, 2021 9:46am
      - Don Beckett
        
        I think you are wrong Benedict. There are at least 2 cafes here in Tauranga that advertise that all, including the unvaccinated are welcome.
        I believe they are doing well.
        
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        October 21, 2021 10:22am
      - Hard Cheese
        
        I’d like to see someone open a cafe that advertises “unvaccinated only” to watch the double standards fly.
        
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        October 21, 2021 11:59am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      And a downtick.
      
      So your struggling hospitality business can survive a long term 10 to 20% drop in patronage.
      
      So you didn’t really need the wage subsidy or the business resurgence package.
      
      One problem
      
      1. Pay back the assistance you did not need.
      2. I will take my unvaccinated bum and the vaccinated bums of my family and friends and sit them somewhere else.
      
      I’m sure the vaccinated would be more than happy to pay a 20 to 25% surcharge for the privilege of only infecting and being infected by only other fully vaccinated customers.
      
      Yes listen to the PM, our one source of truth, vaccinated people will still catch covid.
      
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      October 21, 2021 9:35am
      - SilverSurfer
        
        Its a shame there weren’t more people like you willing to stand on principle Blobby.
        
        Im an Ecologist so know a wee bit about the natural world and our place in it and my conclusion is that this virus dosen’t give a flying F@#K who it infects vaccinated and unvaccinated alike, if people want to live in fear thats their choice, my family and i will not and will still be enjoying a coffee in the sunshine at the beach!
        
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        October 21, 2021 11:32am
      - Batman
        
        I’m sorry but the standards of other commenters require us to rubbish you as a nobody who knows absolutely zero about the topic at hand because you’re not an immunological specialist or virologist ?
        
        Unless of course you’ve done your own research via Google or DuckDuckGo in which case you now know better than the aforementioned specialists.
        
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        October 21, 2021 11:59am
- [email protected]
  
  I see that it is now possible for some unvaccinated people to purchase vaccine certificates on the internet for selected countries.
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:17am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Good. There is now good (but not definitive) evidence that natural infection is superior – ie longer lasting. How longer we don’t know yet.
  
  Senator Rand Paul has been going on about this for several weeks – making mice meat of public health officials before Senate Committees (very entertaining) 🙂
  
  Also, people who have had COVID seem to react badly to the vaccine.
  
  A friend of mine got COVID in NYC in March 2020. She had just started a vacation in the USA. Ooops :-(. She ended up in a NYC hospital and then made it home. (Lucky travel insurance was still covering COVID at that stage.)
  
  Anyway she had her second shot last week and was off work for 3 days.
  
  In practice, this is a moot point in New Zealand as so few people have been infected with COVID. But in the USA it is a huge issue.
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:30am
  - Taieri
    
    There is now good (but not definitive) evidence that natural infection is superior – ie longer lasting.
    —————–
    
    That’s how we, as a human race managed to survive so far. Through the development of natural immunity.
    
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    October 21, 2021 9:38am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Agh no. We didn’t. See smallpox, polio and diptheria.
      
      Vaccines and antibiotics literally gave us the world we have today. You are conflating the performance of the COVID vaccines – “good but could have been better” with smallpox, polio and diptheria vaccines – “miracles that saved hundreds of millions”.
      
      That blanket “natural immunity us better” is the slogan of antivaxxers everywhere and it is garbage.
      
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      October 21, 2021 11:11am
      - Taieri
        
        FYI I’m fully vaccinated.
        
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        October 21, 2021 11:42am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    I can’t see any justification for having the vaccine after you have had the disease. Maybe only a booster a year or more later.
    
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    October 21, 2021 9:43am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      No you probably won’t need a booster a year or two later. But we won’t know for another year or two.
      
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      October 21, 2021 11:11am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Who’s going to indemnify the Govt? The providers have a free run at making money with responsibility.
  Isn’t care part of the health protocol?
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:01am
- NoFax
  
  I think the business know that the job of enforcing this is not going to be great. There have already been news reports of death threats made at Bunnings’ employees for not allowing people to make orders. And these threats of violence seem rather serious and more than idle talk.
  
  What will it look like at the Viaduct at 1am when someone’s phone has died or lost the certificate? No thank you!
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:51am
  - Nickc2
    
    IMO, vaccine passports must be hard copy plastic with accompanying ID photographs embedded like a Driving License. Anything on a phone can, and will be hacked to suit an occasion
    
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    October 21, 2021 12:21pm
    - Sponge
      
      One of my sons mates (whom I don’t like) has a thriving business of faking drivers licences to enable 17 year olds to get into the pub.
      
      I can’t see any way that a vaccine passport could be beyond fraud/dishonesty.
      
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      October 21, 2021 8:40pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  As if an unvaccinated American will ever set foot in New Zealand again. You can relax.
  
  I was thinking about this the other day in respect of airlines. Specifically it’s going to put a crimp on Air New Zealand’s revived plans for the Auckland-NYC direct route and Auckland-Chicago. Those routes need travelers in both directions and as I’m constantly reminded by smug Kiwis, the US has a much lower vaccination rate than us.
  
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  October 21, 2021 10:38am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Most unvaccinated people in the USA are the marginalised esp in the southern states. The kind of people who live in NYC and the eastern states who will be candidates to fly to New Zealand will be vaccinated. Air New Zealand has zero to worry about on that front.
    
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    October 21, 2021 11:14am
    - Dairy Flat
      
      Not necessarily so. I have family and friends in Manhattan and we are normally back and forth. They are reporting that many people there are quietly avoiding the jab without difficulty so far. Like shy Trump voters they keep their heads down to avoid the feral leftists. There is a ways to go yet to see how all this pans out.
      
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      October 21, 2021 11:40am
      - Tom Hunter
        
        Yep. Same in Chicago. I was a bit stunned to learn that my beloved sister-in-law burst into tears the other day at some small gathering when a long-time friend revealed herself as a Republican voter – including voting for Trump in 2020. Things are getting sad.
        
        No word on the other lady’s vax status. 🙂
        
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        October 21, 2021 1:48pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It’s just lucky, I guess, that those smug Kiwis have a smug Tom Hunter to correct their views.
    
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    October 21, 2021 11:18am
- rockape
  
  Looks like all in hospitals including admin workers have to get first van by 30 oct or they will be given notice of the termination of their contracts From health ministry to all DHBs this afternoon. Funny that wasn’t mentioned at the one o’clock briefing.
  
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  October 21, 2021 3:48pm
Benedict Yu

Funny experience yesterday. I entered into a kind of joint venture to work on a public sector project. There is me, a lawyer guy and an engineer and four public servants.

So in your first meeting there is an exercise to get to know each other. And one of the questions you share is “what makes you anxious”. Fair enough.

So I say I miss my family outside of New Zealand.

The engineer guy says his teenage daughter is having issues and he is anxious about her.

When it came to the public servants, three of the four said their major concern in life was “climate anxiety”. Climate change meant that they would live in a terrible and damaged world.

I guess I avoided the Maori prayers.
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October 21, 2021 8:08am
- BananaLlama
  
  For me it is my worry about raising my Girls in Afghanistan.
  
  They can’t can’t go to school, have to wear a face covering when they go out and have a dictator in government.
  Oh yeah and our public institutions are acting rapey demanding they put things in their body regardless of consent.
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:15am
- RockyJ
  
  It just shows how comfortable their lives are if that is their main worry.
  Seriously I have a worry about the mental state of children being fed the catastrophic human caused climate change propaganda at school.
  It becomes a perfect storm when you add in Maori rights. Hence the bizarre moment when the School Strike for Kids imploded in Auckland because it was too white. Pathetic and tragic. https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/06/18/gretas-movement-is-imploding/
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:23am
  - Ra Henare
    
    No its not their main concern, they are just following Gummint social justice training.
    In case the other 3 at the meeting dobbed them in for not following the leadership(and hence their chances of promotion/pay increase at next performance review)
    
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    October 21, 2021 8:49am
- hullkiwi
  
  That sounds like AT or Auckland Council. Organisations completely divorced from reality.
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:23am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    For obvious reasons I can’t disclose the organisation.
    
    19 0
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    October 21, 2021 8:31am
    - Master Mariner
      
      I don’t think you need too.
      
      Its a Public Service “Group Think” requirement for all.
      
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      October 21, 2021 8:48am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Try ATEED – all their organised events cancelled but their “special tax?” Still going at full speed
    
    16 0
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    October 21, 2021 8:52am
    - septic skeptic
      
      That would be the very first place I would look to make some savings on behalf of ratepayers. A 100% cut in budget – barring the absolute minimum spend necessary on redundancies. Next cab off the rank? AT.
      
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      October 21, 2021 10:41am
- zulumonster
  
  It makes me anxious that supposedly sane people can find climate change to be the thing that makes them most anxious.
  If anyone ever wondered why our public service is such a minefield of wokeness and littered with unporoductive snowflakes, BY’s anecdote above explains only too well.
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:25am
  - Don Beckett
    
    It doesn’t make me anxious – it just totally pisses me off. It’s all bullshit – when are we as a country going to wake up?
    
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    October 21, 2021 10:26am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Never
      
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      October 21, 2021 11:14am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Avoid illegal prayers in the NZ Public Service setting to Maori pagan deities like the plague.
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:03am
  - RichardX
    
    Do you believe “Maori Pagan deities” exist?
    
    2 7
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    October 21, 2021 12:24pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The world has many negative spirits. We humans have to co-exist with them.
      
      1 1
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      October 21, 2021 10:03pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Tragic that adults in information linked jobs could have such a distorted view of reality – guess thats what comes of being fed a steady diet of propaganda for decades. A degree or two of warming for the planet is equivalent to moving 1-200km north. Anywhere in tropics stays the same as they are regulated by water evaporation. Slightly more pleasant for almost everyone on the planet, a couple of places where it might get moderately drier or wetter. Sea level rise (subsidence corrected tide gauges from around the world) show 1-2mm/year rise, generally smaller than underlying local geological trends, with no significant acceleration over last 100 years.
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:09am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Newest IPCC report says cows are less of a problem than thought. Chapter 7, page 123 says that “the effect of constant methane emissions on global surface temperature [were overstated] by a factor of 3-4”
    
    This will surprise no-one familiar with the decades of IPCC exaggeration and their vastly overheated models.
    
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    October 21, 2021 1:29pm
- Hollyfield
  
  At my workplace, last year one of our senior executives had a zoom meeting with one of our suppliers based in the US. At the start of the meeting they asked what our position is on Black Lives Matters. Our person replied our organisation doesn’t have a position, we are in NZ. They got a bit huffy and replied that BLM is a global matter and we should have a position. As an organisation we don’t have a position on anything, except the business of the organisation.
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:10am
- Bluegrass
  
  Getting to know each other. Please. Like the first day at kindy?
  
  If they were on my project team ‘anxiety’ would not be on the agenda and the flake who suggested it [probably a public servant] would have been fired.
  
  Their focus should be on project cost and time over-runs and quality control. And if they failed to properly perform re these issues then sure, that is the time they can become ‘anxious’. About their job.
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:42am
- fisho
  
  Authenticity, openness and honesty versus saying what I’ve been told to say/what I think I have to say.
  No wonder these clowns generate policy that’s unworkable, so far removed from reality it’s not funny.
  
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  October 21, 2021 10:50am
- CAKE FACE1
  
  Interesting story.
  
  I assume that they are concerned for the Africans and Australians, rather than here, because a couple of degrees warmer in NZ is unlikely to prove catastrophic?
  
  Major weather changes can change the world.
  
  One of the theories for the collapse of the Roman Empire was it was caused by climate change. As Europe became colder, the Northern tribes (the Huns and Vandals et al) migrated South towards Rome, overrunning first Roman client States, and then Rome herself. The 1,000 year Dark Ages that followed was partially darker due to the colder climate.
  
  I suppose this is the fundamental point of climate change throughout history – people migrate.
  
  Siberia is empty. Greenland is empty. Alaska is empty.
  
  If the climate does dramatically change, won’t people slowly migrate to massive empty cold countries like these?
  
  I would like to have tested my theory on the bureaucrats!
  
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  October 21, 2021 1:08pm
Scott

I’ll do my best to get this pro Trump post past moderation. I was moderated out of existence yesterday.
[Mod : Complaining about moderation is a nono ]
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October 21, 2021 8:09am
- Scott
  
  Try again…
  Mollie Hemingway’s book “Rigged” was criticised yesterday by Batman.
  Actually Hemingway is a very intelligent person who has an excellent grasp of American politics and should be well respected by most thinking people. She notes that for the 2020 election the Democrats moved to allow absentee balloting using the justification of Covid. It was accepted liberal wisdom that absentee balloting was open to fraud and abuse right up until 2020. Then absentee balloting was fine. The use of absentee ballots was deliberately extended by the Democrats who found that Republicans tended to vote in person while Democrats were far more likely to mail their votes in. So now a huge proportion of votes came in the mail. In many cases signature verification did not happen, often because of the sheer volume of mail in ballots.
  
  In chapter 4 Hemingway notes the summer of violence where in response to the George Floyd killing, thousands of black lives matter activists stormed the streets, burning down buildings, forcing the police to abandon police stations and then burning them down, and the killing of at least 25 people. This violence was allowed to go unchecked by Democrat authorities. Hemingway believes this was because they wanted to cause chaos and in an atmosphere of chaos bring down Trump. Joe Biden explicitly blamed Trump for the rioting and accused him of racism.
  
  I will bring you more from Hemingway’s book as I work my way through it. I think the conclusion I have come to is that the Democrats do not believe in democracy anymore. Because in democracy you have to be able to cope with the idea that the other side will win elections from time to time. The Democrats never accepted the result of the 2016 election. Similarly they never accepted George Bush being elected and blamed the close race in Florida. I don’t think the Democrats can accept when they lose. They will only accept the result of an election when they win. Sad.
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:37am
  - Batman
    
    Also Scott, your rationale on democrats not accepting election results is exactly what Republicans are doing right now, including you with you claims that signatures weren’t verified (a completely unproven lie) because you guys can’t accept that Trump lost and his narcissistic brain has been preparing for years by saying if he lost it would be because it’s rigged.
    
    The collective suspension of reality and reason, in worship of Donald Trump, makes a mockery of you all.
    
    Ironically, that delusion means conservatives are now dying needlessly and may not vote at the command of the dear leader, giving those who believe in democracy a chance of fend off the authoritarian movement that seeks to hold power because they believe they are the true and entitled patriots.
    
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    December 21, 2020 9:22am
    - dcrane
      
      Batman – the recent Arizona audit included a detailed analysis of the signature boxes of the mail-in ballots by Shiva Aayaduri, showing that an absurdly low level of signature verification must have been used.
      
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      October 21, 2021 10:31am
      - Batman
        
        The Arizona audit funded by conservative money using Trump supporters and run by an organisation with no prior experience in election audits?
        
        And remind us all again what their overall conclusion was? More votes for Biden and less for Trump.
        
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        October 21, 2021 10:33am
      - dcrane
        
        Batman, attacking the source instead of the facts is a sign of intellectual dishonesty.
        
        As probably even you know, the auditors did not attempt to remove any of the thousands of potentially illegitimate ballots they found from either side’s tally. Finding the same count was always to be expected if the fraud was in illegitimate ballots rather than in the counting of them.
        
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        October 21, 2021 11:57am
      - Batman
        
        Nonsense, when crap produces crap, we don’t sit there and ignore the obvious reliability issues.
        
        Though your view does provide a neat little insight into MAGA logic, that you can have the outcomes you want if you just ignore the foundational issues.
        
        The AZ audit was a crock designed to deliver the outcome sought. They openly said they couldn’t find evidence that the result should have been different.
        
        Wishful thinking is all that remains.
        
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        October 21, 2021 12:11pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Try explaining the data packages captured during the cyber attack. It looks very much like Trump was denied votes by a foreign power. That suggests a coup but the show continues with their assisted Biden at the helm.
      
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      October 21, 2021 11:47am
      - RichardX
        
        It has been explained multiple times in multiple outlets, including by formed employees of Lindell.
        
        I don’t know why you reject the explanation.
        
        4 9
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        October 21, 2021 12:12pm
      - dcrane
        
        RichardX – what was the explanation?
        
        2 1
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        October 21, 2021 4:53pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        I have seen the data. I either have to claim it is a fraud or expect an explanation. Having motherboard ID’s on both sides of the attack and actually having them traced is fairly compelling.
        
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        October 21, 2021 10:08pm
  - Batman
    
    Her book is a partisan ramble that is catnip for Maga / Trump supporters. It contains the same lies and distortions that allow people to continue the cognitive dissonance of supporting an anti-democratic crook and liar, so goes against every political and moral principle they claim to hold.
    
    The book serves up the conclusion you want to hear, that it is in fact the democrats who don’t believe in democracy, despite them seeking to pass substantial reforms to enable voter rights, block politicians picking their voters, and prevent racial targeting under the guise of politics.
    
    Meanwhile, the conservative movement continues its descent into the belief that only its members are the true and worthy Americans, which justifies increasingly intolerant behaviour and policies, and gives a green light for enhanced political control over elections, and the rise of a “judeo-bolshevic” ideology, as described the anti-Semitic founder of Gab just yesterday.
    
    Anyway, Hemingway is entitled to her opinions but let’s not pretend she’s anything more than a Fox News contributor and partisan blogger. Here’s one of my favourite Mollie moments: https://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-contributor-defends-trump-over-tax-report-featuring-70k-in-haircuts-hes-doing-things-probably-all-of-us-do/
    
    Not a shameless supplicant at all ?
    
    4 30
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    October 21, 2021 9:11am
    - RiP NZ
      
      Maybe respond to one point about the Antifa riots, the authorities response and the motivations behind that response.
      
      15 2
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      October 21, 2021 9:15am
      - Batman
        
        Why?
        
        Hundreds of rioters were arrested and charged with offences, fined and/or punished as their State saw fit.
        
        The distortion of the Maga grievance machine to turn that into “they’re letting cities burn” was and remains a baseless claim using selected footage replayed over and over again. It was never true and was only designed to fire up the Trump base for the election.
        
        In short, it was just another lie to fuel the bonfire.
        
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        October 21, 2021 9:27am
      - Fletch
        
        Batman, actually most BLM rioters were let go without being charged. Compare this to those were literally standing around during the “insurrection” on Jan 6 and who were arrested as “political prisoners” and STILL being held, some in solitary confinement and in atrocious conditions.
        
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        October 21, 2021 10:16am
      - Batman
        
        More conservative safe space lies Fletch! Gosh you’re a good little parrot.
        
        https://apnews.com/article/records-rebut-claims-jan-6-rioters-55adf4d46aff57b91af2fdd3345dace8
        
        https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/17/us/politics/capitol-riot-pro-trump-claims.html?smid=url-share
        
        It’s hilarious that conservatives are not crying over the US prison system that they and their donors created. Suck it up buttercup
        
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        October 21, 2021 10:52am
      - Fletch
        
        Batman, not true. The only one doing any serious reporting on the Jan 6 political prisoners is Julie Kelly, who actually interacts with them.
        
        More than 600 Americans have been rounded up by Joe Biden’s Justice Department with new arrests coming every week. Federal prosecutors have requested pre-trial detention for at least 100 defendants; 60 Capitol protesters are now in jail and denied bail. For months, January 6 detainees have suffered under solitary confinement conditions, were allowed out of their cells only one hour per day, and have been denied access to lawyers, exercise, personal hygiene, and religious services.
        
        https://amgreatness.com/2021/09/17/joe-bidens-political-prisoners/
        
        Most of them haven’t been charged but are still political prisoners, being denied their rights. All because they happened to be present on Jan 6th. Meanwhile BLM rioters are being set free – hell, prominent Democrats even started campaigns to raise money for their bail.
        
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        October 21, 2021 11:51am
      - Batman
        
        You want to prove I’m wrong but cite hack bloggers who are in the cult?
        
        You’ve just provided more of the same material which I proved wrong, only from a worse source.
        
        It’s just that it’s the wrong type of people being put through the US prison system and they don’t believe they should be subject to it.
        
        If they have a claim their rights are being violated, they should lodge that with the correct body:
        https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/prisoners%27_rights
        
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        October 21, 2021 12:24pm
    - Scott
      
      Her book is a “partisan ramble”. While your comments represent the acme of objective analysis.
      Okay Batman. Got it 🙂
      
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      October 21, 2021 9:22am
      - Batman
        
        Hahah by no means do I claim to be doing that. Hell, I know I am on a blog comments section!
        
        The original point is that she was held up as not being much of a trump person, despite her declaring in a 2018 opinion piece that she was now a full Trump supporter.
        
        You’re welcome to believe whatever you want. That doesn’t make it correct.
        
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        October 21, 2021 10:39am
      - Nickc2
        
        Fletch @ 10:16AM
        He’s not called Beijing Biden for nothing!
        Why isn’t the UN raising questions about such conduct in the US? Oh, that’s right, they are all of the same ilk and prisoners’ rights are of no consequence whatsoever in their utopia.
        
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        October 21, 2021 1:20pm
    - Scott
      
      According to Batman, Mollie Hemingway’s book is a partisan ramble. I on the other hand think her book is very good and provides a good analysis of what happened in the 2020 presidential election.
      Now I am reading the book and am commenting on the chapters I have read so far.
      Batman has not read the book.
      
      So you have to decide what you are going to believe? Are you gonna believe a person that is reading the book and is commenting on the chapters he has read?
      Or are you going to believe a person who has never read the book and dismisses the book while having no intention of ever actually reading it?
      
      Tough decision I know. 🙂
      
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      October 21, 2021 9:47am
      - Okahu
        
        Alternatively, the readership of this blog might consider whether the cherry picked and skewed perspective of a partisan, who is determined to raise her profile amongst the perpetually bewildered, and who is simultaneously selling them some well aged offal, beats the considered views of ‘Batman’.
        
        Top work this morning Batman. I particularly enjoyed your putting the mirror to Conservative/Republicans accusations of anti democratic instinct. Given the armour of indifference worn by many here I don’t know what impact your words will have but I applaud your efforts nevertheless.
        
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        October 21, 2021 11:52am
      - Batman
        
        I’m sure I’ve been downvoted out of existence and your support seals it but thanks anyway hahaha.
        
        Some very worthwhile stuff is coming out from people like David Drucker, Adam Serwer, and Ryan Busse.
        
        The flashlight is being shone on the movement for minority supremacy and they really don’t like being exposed as the authoritarian movement they are being the flag waving and faux-patriotism (hello 1930s Italy, Germany and Japan).
        
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        October 21, 2021 12:19pm
      - Okahu
        
        “I’m sure I’ve been downvoted out of existence and your support seals it but thanks anyway hahaha.”
        
        Glad to be of assistance. I’m sure every little vote helps. Somehow.
        
        Lovely turn of phrase, “movement for minority supremacy”. Deserves a post.
        
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        October 21, 2021 4:04pm
  - Fletch
    
    Democrats never got over being forced to give up slavery.
    
    14 4
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    October 21, 2021 10:04am
    - Okahu
      
      Most got so pissed they became Republicans.
      
      3 9
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      October 21, 2021 11:53am
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        Except, if you are referring to the Dixiecrats, they didn’t Okahu.
        
        5 1
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        October 21, 2021 12:52pm
      - Fletch
        
        Which ones? I can name only 3
        
        3 1
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        October 21, 2021 2:00pm
      - Okahu
        
        The Lost Cause
        The Southern Strategy
        The Big Lie
        
        Some say Denial is a river.
        Others don’t.
        
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        October 21, 2021 3:15pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Just look at those sour arsed bastards Schumer, Schiff and Pelosi. Just there for the troughing IMO.
    Oh, and Pelosi for additional scoops of ice cream as well while she gets her hair done during a lockdown.
    
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    October 21, 2021 1:07pm
- emmess
  
  Downvote the mod
  
  30 7
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  October 21, 2021 8:56am
- RiP NZ
  
  A blog without a community is old man yells at cloud.
  Cant complain about the moderators – is zis clear!
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:02am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Trump is getting a rough time of it, but he’s a toughie.
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:04am
Warren

Well the right have no chance of forming a Government at the next Election if that is the Public Servants view, we are doomed.
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October 21, 2021 8:13am
Durden

Tena Koe from New Tyranny.

We are now on the track to follow China to find, seize and control private wealth.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/inland-revenue-uses-new-powers-to-write-to-wealthy-kiwis-demanding-wealth-details/C4JCMZDYIWJ55YKG6W2WIKBKGA/
_____________

“In December, Labour rushed through changes to the Tax Administration Act which gave effect to its promise to raise the top tax rate to 39c in the dollar for income over $180,000.

But the changes, passed with no consultation, also gave the IRD power to gather information for “a purpose relating to the development of policy for the improvement or reform of the tax system”. The entire legislative process was completed in just 24 hours and came into effect a few days later.”

And as a result now the first step in confiscation of assets starts.
_________________________________
Inland Revenue has started writing to hundreds of New Zealanders it believes have a net worth of at least $20 million indicating it wants details of exactly what they own, and warned it will check the answers against those of their spouse.

As part of the High-Wealth Individuals Research Project, a broad project which is attempting to research how much the ultra wealthy Kiwis pay in tax as a share of their “economic wealth”, Inland Revenue will require “about 400” people to provide detailed information of their assets.

After several weeks of consultation with tax agents, Inland Revenue began telling the agents which of their clients had been captured by the project on Tuesday and began writing to the individuals on Wednesday.

The letter warned the individuals that in November it will ask them to provide details of their partner and any dependent children.

In January they will be asked to provide the “various entities and business undertakings” they or their children are involved in. “We will ask your partner for the same information,” Inland Revenue writes, in documents seen by the Herald.
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October 21, 2021 8:16am
- alex Masterley
  
  Yawn
  The IRD have been doing this for a number of years so it is nothing new.
  Watch the battalions of accountants and lawyers spring into action.
  In the end the exercise will cost more than it recovers.
  
  20 4
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  October 21, 2021 8:30am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    IRD gather info for the Stats Dept too. There is nothing new in sector reviews of tax avoidance. They probably had the authority already.
    
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    October 21, 2021 9:10am
  - Durden
    
    I doubt whether they had the powers to demand information at this depth without reason, with threat of pitting partners against partners and of fines, prior to the law change under urgency and without consultation.
    
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    October 21, 2021 9:23am
- Aunty
  
  The bitter and unhappy Left is obsessed with the so-called wealthy paying their fair share of tax.
  
  But where is the balance?
  
  What aren’t they equally obsessed with those who receive assistance from the State (including WFF) doing their fair share of the work and wealth creation?
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:32am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Because that would be racist.
    
    Do I need to put the sarc thingybob there? I am comfortable with the majority of commentators and readers here level of intelligence to understand, if that is not you, sorry (not really)
    
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    October 21, 2021 9:41am
- artemisia
  
  Plenty of other places in the world, and many where wealthy can live like royalty.
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:36am
Maggy Wassilieff

Phillida Bunkle writes a very interesting and detailed review of Margaret Wilson’s autobiography.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/book-of-the-week-margaret-wilsons-revenge
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October 21, 2021 8:18am
- Durden
  
  Bunkle has her own jaundiced worldview. Makes far too many assertions in her review, with me going “hang on a minute”, many a time while reading it.
  
  But to be fair to Bunkle, I have always wondered if her shoplifting conviction was a setup to get rid of this “troubleseome priest(ess)”. Because Bunkle was become a pain (a carbuncle?)
  
  Wilson still pulls strings within the Labour government having brought a kindred spirit–Paul Hunt, all the way from the UK to Waikato University, and relentlessly promoting him to become our current Chief Human Rights Commissioner. Effectively anointing him as the Chief Troublesome (moral) Priest with his phalanx of other crusading Commissioners. NZ’s Czar of Wokeness if you will.
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:20am
  - Prince
    
    Shoplifting ? Surely a brave refusal to submit to the masculine neoliberal commercial construct managed by an old boys network of rapists.
    Viva la revolution.
    
    7 0
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    October 21, 2021 10:03am
  - Paulus
    
    Remember Helen Clark did the same and brought out failed UK Labour MP to Waikato University as Vice Chancellor – Bryan Gould.
    Jobs for the Boys and Girls – more Girls now.
    
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    October 21, 2021 10:39am
    - RalphT
      
      I’ve several times seen on KB that comment about HC bringing Gould out to become VC at Waikato, and I don’t believe it can be true. While I’m no fan of Gould (and certainly not of Clark), Gould returned to NZ in 1994 when Clark was the new leader of the opposition, not PM. The job of appointing the VC lies with the university council and took place when NZ had had a National government for over three years. If there was any political interference it would have been by Bolger, not Clark.
      
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      October 21, 2021 11:20am
      - waikatosinger
        
        As I recall, Gould was contacted and asked to recommend a new VC. He recommended … himself.
        
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        October 22, 2021 2:38am
    - plc
      
      And gave Judith Tizard a place at or near Cabinet
      
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      October 21, 2021 11:35am
Stu2

Nature reported today on an early model by the Yale School of Public Health on natural immunity to Covid for people that have had it.

The model is based on the genetic relationships between SARS-CoV-2 and other coronaviruses.

The prediction is average reinfection risk rises from about 5% four months after initial infection to 50% by 17 months.

So better than the current vaccines, but not permanent.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02825-8?utm_source=Nature+Briefing&utm_campaign=5b8d83eff2-briefing-dy-20211020&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c9dfd39373-5b8d83eff2-45276622
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October 21, 2021 8:19am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Here’s the paper the “Nature” briefing is referring to.
  
  https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00219-6/fulltext
  
  All very hypothetical at this stage.
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:51am
Master Mariner

As a follow on from MW post yesterday regarding Ombudsman’s investigation regarding MIQ.

https://www.ombudsman.parliament.nz/resources/investigation-framework-administration-managed-isolation-allocation-system-ministry

In a nutshell,

“My investigation will focus on the following concerns:
 the allocation system is said to be unlawful;
 the allocation system is said to be unfit for purpose;
 the allocation system is said to be unfair; and
 the allocation system is said to be poorly managed.”

Also in conjunction with Court proceedings against MIQ.

Be interesting once investigation plays out how the MSM will spin this Blatent abuse of power.

Also front and centre will be Breach of International conventions etc
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October 21, 2021 8:21am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The Ombudsman Office is a gem. They do hold public officials to account. I have successfully used them twice.
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:14am
  - Biscuit
    
    Agreed, Kev.
    
    And just compare that office’s results with those ‘achieved’ by the far-better-resourced Serious Fraud Ofice…
    
    6 1
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    October 21, 2021 10:24am
- Maxx
  
  Unlawful will be an interesting one to watch as I imagine there is a fair amount of leaniancy when it comes to managing borders and health – it will come down to did anyone bother to check what the legal process and requirements were, or like the first lockdown only being made legal after it was shown to not because of process. The other 3 anything are fairly self evident but what will be of interest is what hasn’t been made public being unearthed.
  
  It has been interesting talking to a number of folk who I know involved in a number of these areas (and others related to similar issues) – it seems time and again solutions are put forward for any number of different areas, MIQ management being one of them. If there were say, several ministries that were stakeholders in it, all would be on board except for one of them. I’ll leave you to guess which one. And if it was put directly to any of the ministers, it would be sent straight back down to their ministries and I’m sure they wouldn’t have even bothered to look at it.
  
  Of course all of the ministers will say thats a x minsitry issue and outside of my pervue – convienently it will always be the ministry that is not represented by whoever is being interviewed if there is a group.
  
  Where does the buck stop? Should all of the ministers be brought before (at once) before a Royal Commission of Inquiry – I imagine at the next election it will be a hot topic to run on. Pledge to review all proposals put forward to manage MIQ, vaccine purchase and roll out, health system preperations from 1 March 2020 through to current, lockdowns and the data that supported, etc.
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:46am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Yes Indeed,
    
    “I imagine there is a fair amount of leaniancy when it comes to managing borders and health Indeed,”.
    
    But you open yourself up for all sorts of scrutiny.
    
    Someone mentioned the key word “Arbitrary” which is the basis for scrutiny.
    
    example : Is it more important to let the “Wiggles” in to NZ while Citizens are denied the right?
    
    This flies in face of closer scrutiny, Basisally saying Wiggles have more Arbitrary rights to enter NZ than a NZ citizen stranded overseas.
    
    Its only a needle in the haystack Max and not to do with Locking NZ up but the way they did it.
    
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    October 21, 2021 11:33am
    - krazykiwi
      
      The case taken by Grounded Kiwis will, I understand, focus on this arbitrariness, and on equity. A system that grants access to New Zealand to foreigner entertainers and sports teams, while allowing a 20 year old New Zealand to be forced to sleep rough on the streets of an American city for want of an MIQ space is inequitable. And immoral. And, apparently, perfectly acceptable to Ardern and her goon squad.
      
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      October 21, 2021 3:52pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The COVID-19 Pubic Health Response Act 2020 goes a long way to restores legality.
    Question is the Prime Minister a Minister for the purposes of S. 9?
    
    2 2
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    October 21, 2021 11:54am
All_on_Red

Nice to see this rare piece of common sense

” ..several Ohio hospitals are allowing staff who have already recovered from COVID-19 infections to defer their mandated vaccines.

Premier Health, Kettering Health and the Dayton Children’s Hospital networks have all set a December 1 deadline for workers to get vaccinated against COVID-19, and all three networks are now accepting proof of natural immunity as a reason to defer compliance. “Natural immunity” refers to testing positive for coronavirus-targeting antibodies following a COVID-19 infection.
“This pathway was created because there is evidence that there is protection that arises from a previous infection,” explained Dr. Roberto Colón, chief medical officer at Miami Valley Hospital.’
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/athena-thorne/2021/10/19/hospitals-follow-the-science-accept-natural-immunity-as-reason-to-defer-vaccine-mandates-n1525108
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October 21, 2021 8:23am
- PhilBest
  
  “This pathway was created because there is evidence that there is protection that arises from a previous infection”
  
  There is evidence….no shit, Sherlock?
  
  The question really is, why has there been such blatant dishonest burying of actual science, what is the agenda?
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:31am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Obviously it’s all about Money (for Big Pharma), $Billions in profits will be lost if people who have already recovered are not forced to consume their products.
    
    In a rational world a positive Covid serological test would be sufficient proof for being considered ‘vaxxed’ (and is in fact superior)
    
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    October 21, 2021 9:21am
ecco

Ardern fast turning NZ into a commie type regime. I was listening to Hosking’s show this morning where it was reported that high net worths over $20m in NZ have been approached by IRD to disclose their assets. They are claiming the information is for survey purposes only. Yeah right.

This move was enabled by Ardern under emergency legislation that was rushed through in 24 hours by stealth and has shades of the recent Chinese crackdown on wealthy people there by the CCP. It appears that Labour could be lining up for wealth taxes to pay for all the debt Robertson is getting us into. Expect a flight of money from NZ if Ardern retains power and takes NZ on this track.

Of course this move will resonate with the envy politics that Labour engenders. The Cullen ‘rich prick’ mentality, and also they know it won’t lose them many votes.

This is an absolute over reach of personal rights and invasion of privacy. Ardern is truly emulating China in this step. I repost this telling piece that was on KB yesterday, on the origins of Ardern’s socialist/communist beliefs entitled Exposing The Real Jacinda Ardern.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/I0sMPkKLEM8A/
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October 21, 2021 8:25am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The wealth will go overseas, businesses will close and jobs will be gone. Great job Labour
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:22am
  - Bloody Dago
    
    New Zenezuela. A little reminder of how it happened and note this governments track record and stealth legislation so far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUltZmKqfmM
    
    6 1
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    October 21, 2021 10:03am
- Biscuit
  
  ecco, far be it for me to brag, heh heh, but in the space of half an hour on Sunday I converted $225 into $4850 at the local TAB.
  
  Everything I did was under video surveillance.
  
  I decided it was time to ‘cash out’…
  
  Now, if I had plonked all my winning tickets before the operator and asked for 48 of your finest Rutherfords (why DOES New Zealand have such a ridiculously-low ‘highest banknote?) I’d have been told:
  
  1) You can’t have anything like that many. We don’t keep cash to that amount…
  2) You can credit it to your TAB Account
  and
  2) That’s way more, incidentally, than the $1000 we can allow you to collect (or deposit to your TAB Account) before we have to get details from you as to how you acquired that wealth.
  
  Meantimes, every TV report I see of a drugs stash that has been uncovered by the local constabulary tends to show footage of neatly-wrapped, brick-thick swathes of banknotes that, of course, WEREN’T acquired under video surveillance.
  
  Grr … expletive-deleted … rrr!
  
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  October 21, 2021 10:38am
- Paulus
  
  Flights of money already taken place some time ago when Ardern got selected by Peters.
  
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  October 21, 2021 10:40am
ecco

How is it safe for secondary school kids to return to school in Auckland next week, yet it’s not safe for retailers to open their doors? What’s the difference? Where are Baker, Wiles, Hendy, Jackson and Plank on all of this?
44 0
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October 21, 2021 8:35am
- Nickc2
  
  Cindy’s told them to shut up.
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:03am
  - ecco
    
    I thought these people had professional standards but I guess money (ie government select committee work) talks for them more than standards.
    
    They are soon about to realise that Cindy’s played them like a guitar.
    
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    October 21, 2021 9:31am
    - Nickc2
      
      She’s tone deaf and got claws for fingers.
      
      3 0
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      October 21, 2021 3:32pm
  - oldfella
    
    Nick2
    We hang petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. (Aesop, Greek slave & fable author)
    
    9 1
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    October 21, 2021 9:33am
    - Nickc2
      
      Not much has changed. Aesop had great foresight.
      
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      October 21, 2021 3:29pm
Tony Stuart

Dr Shane Reti posted the following on Facebook last night:

Andrew is 36 with metastatic bowel cancer. He has been taken off all medicines except pain relief. Every week my office has applied for his elderly aunt to travel from Wellington to Auckland, have negative tests before hand and then she will stay in Auckland for as long as Andrew’s journey takes. MBIE continues to say no. Last week they even got tetchy with my office for regular applications. We have now petitioned the ombudsman who has stepped in. Andrew needs a champion. Do the right thing MBIE.

https://www.facebook.com/drshanereti/photos/a.759659317418441/4749854955065504

This is an absolute disgrace. Dr Reti’s office is endeavouring to get Andrew’s aunt to Auckland to provide terminal care for her dying nephew, but MBIE is standing in the way. Could the PM not ask them to “be kind”?

Sadly, Andrew’s case is just the tip of the iceberg, but in this Covid world we are now forced to live in, compassion and decency seem to have gone out the window. That saddens me terribly.
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October 21, 2021 8:35am
- alex Masterley
  
  Do you know who signs off these permits? It is Dr Bloomfield. Unbeliveable.
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:49am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Can imagine it is some stupid little twit with a delegated authority who is having an ?????? every time s/he declines the application simply because it’s come from Dr Reti’s office.
    
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    October 21, 2021 9:10am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    *Blofeld, Ernst Stavro Blofeld – the bad guy in James Bond.
    
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    October 21, 2021 9:25am
- Isobar
  
  Dr Reti is fast proving to be one of the best performers in the National Party caucus – actually getting out there on the front line talking to people and doing what he can to assist. I think Collins promoted him because she didnt see him as a threat to her position. But by the looks of it he will be around in a senior position in the party long after Collins is replaced and sent to the back benches.
  
  MP’s on all sides could take note of his actions too and actually get off twitter and talk to real people on the front lines about what they are going through (not just your fans on Twitter). It might even help drive some proper policy.
  
  Kudos Dr Reti for setting an example many from both side of the aisle should be following.
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:03am
- Yvette
  
  Tony Stuart
  Nephew Andrew’s elderly Aunt seeks to travel from an area without covid for some time, into Auckland – a region proven to have covid for months – not the other way around: from a city with covid in every suburb to a city free of the virus.
  Not only is “This is an absolute disgrace” it is totally epidemiologically illogical !
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:19am
- RiP NZ
  
  Interesting to see the reverence allotted to death of Sean Wainui – tragic as it is in comparison to cases like the one unfolding that Reti is highlighting. Many more like it I’m sure, many more families who have had loved ones pass on.
  
  ‘was killed in a single-vehicle crash about 7.50am at McLaren Falls Park’
  
  I mean – how and why?
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:20am
  - Opie
    
    Select as many as you like:
    
    Alcohol
    Drugs
    Speed
    Lack of driving ability in a fast car
    
    Our roads (particularly the Kaimais) are tricky and badly built and maintained. Hence our high road toll.
    
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    October 21, 2021 10:47am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Socialist Govt collective punishment, do as I say not as I do
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:27am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Talk to the Mob, they can go where they like and it’s double-plus good.
  
  More practically the border is easy to get through if motivated. Use legal personal or public transport to and from either side, and walk or bike across. I am sure this is already happening a lot.
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:33am
- Rich Prick
  
  She only needs to join the Mongrel Mob to find the freedom she seeks. Maybe haul some meth, you know, be an essential service. MBIE will fall over themselves to help.
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:37am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Or turn up at the Auckland border with a bag of labour pardy pamphlets . . .
    
    8 0
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    October 21, 2021 9:46am
- Sacha
  
  That is apalling – inhumane even. If my bloody car wasn’t immobilised waiting for a part, I’d drive her up myself.
  I had a similar situation a couple of months ago, and drove to the hospital in another ‘level’, entered unchallenged, and stayed for the 5 days it took for my relative to die.
  It’s just another example of the lack of culture and decency in the public service.
  In my opinion.
  
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  October 21, 2021 7:57pm
WaveyDavey

As predicted

“The case for optimism: Elimination was never forever, but it’s still a win”

Really? That’s not what we were told for 18 months when the govt insisted that we alone in the whole world would be able to eliminate Covid

“It’s fair to say a lot of New Zealanders thought the government had a choice. If Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s cabinet decided to continue with the elimination strategy, the virus would go away and things would go back to normal.

That, John McMillan, the editor-in-chief of the Journal of Medical Ethics says, was a false dichotomy. In the long-term, elimination was not a realistic policy goal.

So where was Mr McMillan saying this previously?

“The end of zero-Covid was always going to be difficult for people to accept. One doctor I spoke to recently suggested that a number of New Zealanders are still grieving the loss of elimination.”

18 months to explain to the populace that this would be the case, but right up until last month the concept was being “refuded” from the Podium of Truth

For all of that 18 months those such as myself, Benedict and many others here were saying exactly this but were shot down both here and elsewhere with accusations of being “granny killers” – looking at you Batman

We were always the realists, the grown-ups if you will, and all we ever asked was for NZers to be treated like adults and told the hard truth – people WILL die – and not be shielded from the realities

You can actually draw a parallel between the govt’s attitude to Covis and successive govts’ infantilising of our “marginalised groups” – the white man’s burden if you will – where they view Maori & PI as children in need of guidance rather than a dose of HTFU

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/126725095/yes-case-numbers-are-high-but-theres-a-case-for-covid-optimism

TL:DR Stuff still spinning that the Labour government has done no wrong
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October 21, 2021 8:40am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Well if their basic thesis is that “Elimination” gave us 18 months to prepare for the coming tsunami, then our Government has been asleep at the wheel.
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/10/covid-19-tsunami-coming-emergency-nurse-says-lack-of-planning-causing-anxiety.html
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:24am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    And the govt spin will be…
    
    “Nobody could have predicted…”
    “Something, something something…”
    “But, National…”
    
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    October 21, 2021 10:40am
- RockyJ
  
  I cannot get out of my head the cheesy voice in the ads saying “if we all get vaccinated we can get back to doing the things we love”.
  Awww. I guess that was a lie too.
  
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  October 21, 2021 10:07am
- ecco
  
  The sad thing is that Ardern and co are saying we’ve moved on from elimination but the reality for Aucklanders is that there is no difference in their lives now to her ‘elimination’ phase.
  
  I think you call that ‘smoke and mirrors’. Such bullshit artists this Labour government. Very cunning.
  
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  October 21, 2021 10:41am
- dcrane
  
  You can argue that, by luck or otherwise, the government was in a position this year to deliver a world-beating outcome for NZ, but an honest writer would then have to admit that Ardern’s 1–2 punch of incompetence dealt our chances a death blow:
  
  #1 the developed world’s slowest vaccine rollout.
  #2 failure to expand the medical system to handle covid while reopening.
  
  It’s no surprise of course. What else to expect from the government of Kiwibuild.
  
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  October 21, 2021 10:41am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Seems ‘eliminate’ does not mean what we think it means – or what the dictionary says. Eliminate means whatever Labour says it means on the day
  
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  October 21, 2021 11:07am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I know exactly what elimination means…and if humans are involved it usually results in a stinking pile of poo and dead bodies.
    
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    October 21, 2021 1:53pm
Yvette

New Zealand gained a reputation in international media for having one of the world’s leading COVID-19 responses following the quick and successful lockdown in early 2020 which successfully eliminated the virus from the community.
However, over the past year New Zealand has plummeted from the top spot to number 38 in Bloomberg’s COVID Resilience Rankings – attributed to the relatively slow vaccination rollout. [1]

Bloomberg’s COVID Resilience Ranking is ridiculous information warfare
The popular (and supposedly credible) New York City-headquartered outlet Bloomberg recently placed the US at the top of its “COVID Resilience Ranking” while putting China in eighth place …

China was the first country in the world to contain COVID-19. It did so due to its coordinated nationwide efforts organized by the Communist Party of China (CPC). There are rarely any new COVID-19 cases in the country, and whenever some are reported, the authorities immediately react in order to isolate the epidemiological threat. The populace complies with these policies because they saw how successful they were over nearly the past year and a half. They also trust their leadership and don’t suspect it of ulterior motives.

The same can’t be said about the situation in the US. Cases continue to rise, and observers are very concerned about a growing so-called “vaccine divide” between Democrat and Republican areas of the country. Many Americans aren’t complying with their authorities’ recommended epidemiological advice and view such efforts as a gross violation of their civil liberties.

Objectively speaking, it is much safer for someone to live or travel in China than to do so in the US right now, and that’s not even taking into consideration the skyrocketing crime rate in some of US’ largest cities. Bloomberg must be fully aware of these facts but chose to deliberately ignore them in order to deceive their audience. The outlet is known for being close to the ruling Democrat elites and might therefore have wanted to portray President Joe Biden’s counter-coronavirus efforts as a stunning success despite them being anything of the sort. [2]

New Zealand has plummeted from the top spot to number 38 in Bloomberg’s COVID Resilience Rankings – but do we better reflect the USA or China?

[1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/10/medical-expert-slams-govt-s-best-in-show-mentality-warns-it-leads-to-complacency.html
[2] https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202107/1228917.shtml
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October 21, 2021 8:45am
- KevO'Brien
  
  China can contain any virus, They send the troops in, seal up houses (including occupiers)…
  Do we need to revise our standards?
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:21am
- Batman
  
  Citing Chinese international propaganda leaves you looking like a violin, Yvette.
  
  I’m surprised you used the global times!
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:30am
- PhilBest
  
  I don’t believe China “eliminated the virus” at all.
  
  As a totalitarian State, they could even more easily suppress the hysteria about the virus. Covid is actually so little worse than a bad flu season, that it is perfectly simple to suppress the hysteria.
  
  However, it is classic Sun-Tzu to use psy-ops to convince the rest of the world to use a “strategy” that involves them destroying themselves. Even in hysteria promotion globally, CCP fingerprints were all over it.
  
  https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/china-covid-lockdown-propaganda
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:34am
- NoFax
  
  Using the Global Times is an automatic downvote. This is the mouthpiece of the CCP – it cannot be trusted to be fish and chip wrapper.
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:57am
Maggie Pie

Perhaps a little off-topic, but we were laying in bed earlier and for some reason I wondered to myself…. how often would Mongrel Mobsters wash their sheets?
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October 21, 2021 8:48am
- RalphT
  
  Never; washing is a job for their bitches.
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:15am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    When the sheets walk to the washing machine, they get washed.
    
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    October 21, 2021 9:33am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Ha! they have servants to attend to that (under varying levels of duress).
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:24am
- lifesgood
  
  For some reason I always think of them as filthy, like how often do they shower, change their undies etc. Urgggh!
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:29am
  - Flossie
    
    For some reason I don’t want to think of them…especially the state of their undies!!
    
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    October 21, 2021 11:14am
- [email protected]
  
  They don’t have to. They can afford to buy new ones instead.
  
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  October 21, 2021 1:05pm
Ra Henare

Oh dear. The Lottery mob are following the failed MIQ booking farce.

Mylotto (the online website for Lotto) no puts you in a line for access to their site before you can log in.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why dont they just buy more server/processor capacity???

Wankers.

All that time wasted to find out I had won a bonus ticket!! 🙁 rather than the $42 mill)
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October 21, 2021 8:56am
- ecco
  
  They seem to be giving out more bonus tickets lately eh.
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:20am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Strange thing is you can not use a credit card in a Lotto shop, but you can use a credit card to top up your online account. Monthly spending limit too.
  Stupid
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:34am
  - PhilBest
    
    But is that a “contact” and “fomites” Covid thing?
    
    Some shops are still reluctant to take cash. This is BS, seeing the science moved on long since to aerosolized virus building up in indoors air.
    
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4
    
    29 January 2021
    COVID-19 rarely spreads through surfaces. So why are we still deep cleaning?
    
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    October 21, 2021 9:36am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      My local dairy is cash free. They also do Lotto. Everyone touches the eftpos keypads.
      Also, gave up on online. One $20 ticket per week for the last 9 – 10 weeks. I have had only one bonus
      
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      October 21, 2021 11:14am
- NoFax
  
  I think this lotto thing is rigged. I have bought like 5 tickets now and haven’t won! What at the odds!
  
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  October 21, 2021 10:00am
Maggy Wassilieff

I seem to have missed the reports of the great trade deals Damien O’Connor organised when he was in the USA and UK recently.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/trade-minister-damien-oconnors-not-so-secret-washington-trip-revealed-other-destinations-unclear/M6MDHZKDI4FUXQK3NHYCK2JN6Q/

Anyone got any details of them?
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October 21, 2021 9:17am
Master Mariner

Trade Minister,

I mean seriously you have “Only” thought of this?
Is this how far you have gotten?
I could of saved you the C02 and told you before your departure.

Its because of previous FTA ( China) that we have to send our timber overseas and have no supply in our country. I hope there is a War/ Pandemic clause in All FTA agreements from now on.

“A sensitive issue in discussions has been the EU’s desire to protect over 2000 food and beverage ‘Geographical Indications’.”

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/country/453817/changes-to-dairy-product-names-likely-needed-for-eu-trade-deal-minister

All FTA will need close scrutiny and even more so with supply chains smashed and no light at the end of the tunnel.
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October 21, 2021 9:17am
- WaveyDavey
  
  “The dairy industry here said it’s open to changing the labelling on some products to make the country of origin clear – but it’s unwilling to stop using cheese names like feta and gruyere.
  
  Aye, that’ll work – muppets
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:49am
Tony Stuart

Small and medium-sized businesses have always been the engine room of the New Zealand economy. But as the Herald reports this morning, SME’s are feeling a world of hurt just at the moment:

Research from accounting firm MYOB has revealed confidence among small and medium businesses is plummeting as revenue and profits are smashed from current Covid-19 lockdowns, labour shortages and the supply chain crisis.

MYOB’s October Economic Snapshot, conducted October 1-16, shows SME business revenue has taken the biggest hit since the 2008 global financial crisis.

MYOB head of customer service, Jo Tozer, said the snapshot was a wake-up call for SMEs and the Government, particularly after many businesses had been on a steady recovery after the initial impacts of the pandemic last year.

Tozer said the impact from lockdown restrictions and the continued pressure from disrupted supply chains, rising production costs and skills shortages were hitting home now.

“While in early 2020 we saw a short, sharp shock in terms of business performance, prior to the pandemic, we hadn’t seen these levels of revenue declines over 13 years of our SME surveys.

“In fact, SMEs reported a more significant fall in revenue for the 12 months to October 2021 than they did in the aftermath of the GFC.”

“As the revenue data in our latest research highlights, businesses have been hit incredibly hard by the latest lockdown restrictions.”

Tozer said businesses were urgently seeking better targeted financial support and more certainty from the Government and they would have appreciated the opposition’s focus on that yesterday.

National’s “Back to Business” plan to provide immediate, targeted support – especially to sectors like hospitality and tourism – which have been particularly affected by the ongoing impacts of the pandemic, was what SMEs are looking for, Tozer said.

The Labour Government is due to announce on Friday a new Covid-19 protection “framework” taking into account higher vaccination rates and will potentially signal the next phase away from using alert level restrictions.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/covid-19-delta-outbreak-sme-revenue-takes-the-biggest-hit-since-2008-global-financial-crisis-myob-survey/AL2ZMFUW36CHM3PUYLGYJPLBSQ/

Small businesses throughout the country are closing their doors, such is the level of pessimism. Just this morning, Newstalk ZB was reporting that four Christchurch hospitality businesses are going into liquidation, because it’s no longer economically viable for them to stay open, even at L2. I suspect the decision this week to ban crowds at Cup Week in Christchurch was the final nail in the coffin for these businesses. And of course it’s not just the businesses themselves; it’s all the staff they employ, the GST they pay, and the tax their employees pay; that’s gone.

It’s pleasing to see that National’s “Back to Business”package announced yesterday found favour with SME’s. Sadly, it was immediately dismissed by Grant Robertson, so although Labour has adopted lots of National’s Covid strategies, businesses can’t expect much support from the Labour government.

As a small business co-owner, I’m not at all surprised by the results of this survey. We are managing to keep our heads above water, but “managing” to survive is not a recipe for long-term survival. Other business owners I talk to are in a similar position, and for those unfortunate enough to be trying to make a living in Waikato or Auckland, it’s even worse. We hear a lot about the pressure our hospitals are under due to Covid, but what about the pressure on the Mental Health system?

The Government needs to urgently show a pathway out of restrictions, and help businesses to survive until the customers are allowed to return. Sadly though, I’m not optimistic that will happen tomorrow.
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October 21, 2021 9:20am
- KevO'Brien
  
  I have similar observations from my accounting clients. Existence is not survival.
  
  Plans like National’s should have been there from the outset. The damage done from will be haunting the people in 2o years time.
  
  Now that we know that Ardern is marching to the WEF program orders we are really under external control.
  
  Drastic action is needed to immediately terminate this present regime. (If the Opposition Parties resigned that could bring matters to a head.)
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:32am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    TBF, I’m doing pretty well out of it
    
    Thanks to government largesse my (sole-trader) businesses have weekly revenue twice what it would be in normal circumstances – so much so that for every week it goes on like this I will have to close-down for a week to stay below the GST threshold
    
    Oh and I’m currently choosing to run at 50% of normal to make sure I meet the subsidy and resurgence criteria
    
    I really must consider switching allegiance to Labour at the next election – half the work, twice the money. What’s not to like?
    
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    October 21, 2021 9:54am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Uptick – only if you forget the //sarc.
      
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      October 21, 2021 10:59am
      - WaveyDavey
        
        /sarc only applies to the last paragraph
        
        the rest is real
        
        Thanks mainly to Labour in the last 4 years I was able to sell a secondary property for ~4x what I paid in 2013 and with the proceeds bought a rather nice beach place on the east coast of Aus and banked the same amount again for a comfortable retirement
        
        Labour really has been nothing but good for me if I look at things impartially
        
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        October 21, 2021 11:22am
  - Nickc2
    
    If the Opposition Parties resigned that could bring matters to a head?
    
    Doubt it, the Greens could then sever their agreement/s with Labour and move to the opposition benches. Just imagine the state NZ would be in then? Firmly entrenched in Communism on a compulsory diet of Alfalfa and Mung Beans and riding Govt issued Push Bikes. NO THANKS!
    
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    October 21, 2021 10:04am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      No. If all the national party MPs resigned, there would be by-elections in 23 electorates. The 10 national party list members could be replaced by the unsuccessful 2020 list candidates. If Judith Collins had wide support in the national party (ha!), there would soon be a parliament of 110 MPs rather than 120. Without further premises to analyse (would ACT join the game, too?), I suppose you could speculate further on the political impact of such an act of political suicide.
      
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      October 21, 2021 11:35am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I didn’t see the Grrrs included–they are too embedded with Labour.
      If the Nats and Act downed tools the GG would have to take notice too.
      
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      October 21, 2021 12:05pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Yes, she would have to issue the writs for the by-elections, etc.
        
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        October 21, 2021 1:42pm
    - waikatosinger
      
      “Lets cut our own foot off – that’ll show them”!
      
      Reminds me of Mr Slater telling the people on his blog who were complaining that National was “Labour Lite” to vote for New Zealand First to “Teach National a lesson”. Idiotic.
      
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      October 21, 2021 2:10pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Mr Slater? Geez waikatosinger, you mix with some bottomfeeders.
        
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        October 21, 2021 2:50pm
- plc
  
  Did you see the National Policy launch?
  
  It was an omnishambles, a total car crash.
  
  When you can’t stand up to grilling from Amelia Wade, it is time to question your life choices.
  
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  October 21, 2021 11:43am
  - Stu2
    
    Looked like rank amateurs.
    
    Not sure they have a lot of outstanding cabinet material either. Labour don’t.
    
    Key+English+Joyce is a distant memory
    
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    October 21, 2021 1:49pm
surfing

What happened to the New Zealand police? Must be embarrassing to admit being one these days.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/126726067/auckland-man-attacked-with-ice-axe-after-police-directed-him-to-find-stolen-ute

Guy has work ute stolen, police tell him where it is located (why didn’t police attend? Why are police are giving offender’s addresses to victims?).

The guy goes to the offenders house to find his ute, gets attacked by the occupants using an ice axe, causing injuries.

Police are called, they threaten to arrest the victim for breaching covid rules! Victims gear is supposedly inside the house, police will not search it.

At least the cops charged the offender for attacking him with the ice axe.

The root cause is that cops don’t consider car theft is serious – where as , I think it is very serious. People stealing cars are doing other bad things, catch and imprison them! But, it would be racist, as it seems most car thieves seem to be young maori males.
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October 21, 2021 9:33am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Why are we paying the police again? Or more fairly why are we paying the Minister in charge of them who are failing to deliver this essential govt service due to ideological head-up-arsedness.
  
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  October 21, 2021 3:23pm
- sooty
  
  But not wearing your mask is! Police priorities are!
  
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  October 21, 2021 3:39pm
KevO'Brien

A look at the WEF working for your future:
https://www.globalresearch.ca/testaments-blood-samples-establish-global-dna-data-bank/5759083
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October 21, 2021 9:33am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING…

Twitter follower ‘Shaneel’ (They/Them) is….
Co-Founder: Conversion Therapy Action Group.

(Example of Conversion Therapy)
“I thought I would try electroshock conversion therapy. I attached probes to my nipples, now I think I’m gayer than ever”
– darienlake@twitter

Shaneel hates the rich 🙁

https://twitter.com/shaneellall/status/1450699182688247808
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October 21, 2021 9:41am
- Yvette
  
  Maggie Pie
  “ I We thought I we would try electroshock conversion therapy. I We attached probes to my our nipples …”<
  So, where does Shaneel think their brains are?
  
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  October 21, 2021 10:49am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    LOL!!
    Certainly not in Mt Roskill anyway 😀
    
    https://twitter.com/shaneellall/status/1450230119553847297
    
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    October 21, 2021 11:17am
Opie

I see today in an effort to put pressure on the government MIQ debacle, Chris Bishop has said “only 19 fully vaccinated travellers had tested positive for Covid in MIQ between August 23 and October 12, and only two of those were after day 8.”

The interesting number would be how many unvaccinated people have tested positive in MIQ at the same time?

19 seems like a lot of breakthrough cases? Unless they are asymptomatic I suppose?
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October 21, 2021 9:46am
Nickc2

Should this Happen in NZ?
Vic (Aust) Health Authorities ordered to make public the advice they provided to their State Govt on which to base lockdown decisions.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/health-department-ordered-to-release-briefings-used-to-justify-victorian-lockdown-20211020-p591hl.html
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October 21, 2021 9:47am
oldfella

I just spotted this little gem in a stuffed story…

The decision about whether Covid-19 should be allowed into communities beyond Waikato should rest only with those in those communities. According to Te Tiriti o Waitangi, these are not decisions the prime minister should make.

Wow, that TOW was way ahead of it’s time. It even predicted the coming of Covid. /s
https://www.stuff
.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300434392/covid19-is-part-of-life-in-auckland-but-it-doesnt-have-to-be-for-new-zealand
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October 21, 2021 9:51am
- Yvette
  
  Oldfella
  COVID-19: Case demographics [1] demonstrate the virus is an organism devoid of a brain and therefore incapable of comprehending the Treaty of Waitangi.
  
  And rather than in 1840 having knowledge of television and media air-waves, Maori did – more relevantly – have Maori medications to try to deal with VD that they knew accompanied whalers and sailors, and would surely know of Hawaiian pandemics (1800s), and were aware of disease – not how, but obviously accompanying settlers, although Article 3 “protection” was more about violence – their own, or introduced.
  
  [1] https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-case-demographics
  
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  October 21, 2021 11:20am
- cmm
  
  “The decision about whether Covid-19 should be allowed into communities beyond Waikato should rest only with those in those communities”
  
  That’s like saying “The decision about whether the tide should come in should rest only with those sitting on the beach.”
  
  The virus is coming regardless of what people want or decide. No frowny faces or foot stamping or wishing on unicorns is going to stop it.
  
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  October 21, 2021 12:00pm
NoFax

Why did we follow the tyranny of China in dealing with Covid. Never in the history of humanity have we locked up the healthy. It is getting worse in China (despite the official news). This is from Not the Bee and it is rather disturbing https://notthebee.com/article/check-out-this-video-megathread-on-chinas-forced-vaccinations-quarantine-prison-camps-and-people-climbing-over-barbed-wire-to-escape-the-dystopia
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October 21, 2021 10:03am
oldfella

Our new GG has been sworn in. She’s described as “… of Ngāpuhi, Ngāti Hine and Ngāti Kahu descent while her father is British.”
The story would also have been correct if it had said, “… her father is British and she also has Maori ancestry.”
But I guess that wouldn’t please Cindy, and she who pays the bribes, gets to dictate what our media says.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/new-governor-general-dame-cindy-kiro-sworn-in/ID2M2DXFTYVYLLBAPI5SJG6MFY/
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October 21, 2021 10:05am
- Ehlana
  
  “her father is British”. Welsh? Scottish? Shouldn’t we be told that too?
  
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  October 21, 2021 12:33pm
  - Flossie
    
    Clearly THAT is of no consequence.
    
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    October 21, 2021 12:50pm
    - sooty
      
      It’s a wonder she even had a father!
      
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      October 21, 2021 3:34pm
- Jack5
  
  Cindy Kiro had a long career in public service after her education which included a PhD in social policy and an MBA.
  
  Her most recent role before becoming Governor-General hasn’t been spectacular though. She has been chief executive of the ironically named Royal Society of New Zealand, which has renamed itself Royal Society Te Aparangi. This is despite its official name in legislation remaining Royal Society of New Zealand.
  
  The organisation began as the New Zealand Institute in the 1860s.
  
  It became the Royal Society of New Zealand in 1933, with the “Royal” reflecting Britain’s very old, and famed Royal Society, one of the world’s great scientific bodies.
  
  It describes the next step in its name:
  
  Through the 1990s and 2000s we wanted to take on a Maori name, recognising our cultural heritage and work we were trying to do at the time to build our partnership with Maori researchers. In 2007 we were gifted a name by Professor James Wharehuia Milroy: Te Aparangi, or group of experts. So our ‘full’ name becomes Royal Society of New Zealand Te Aparangi.
  
  Since 2017 it has gradually dropped “New Zealand” from its name. It says this to highlight “our Maori name.”
  
  It adds: “We are again working hard to build our partnership with Maori researchers.”
  
  You have to wonder whether Ardern’s appointment of Kiro as Governor-General isn’t unrelated to Ardern’s wish to change the name of our country to Aotearoa.
  
  Another problem with the society: It administers New Zealand’s major scientific funding through the Marsden Research fund.
  
  IT industry concern about bias in Marsden Fund:
  
  http://www.itsmf.org.nz/marsden-research-funding.html
  
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  October 21, 2021 12:39pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    So, she’s the one responsible for the frightful decline of the Royal Society in NZ.
    They have stopped doing science and probably now promote hill top bird killers as the preferred power source.
    Jackbooted scientists, brains included.
    
    The good news is that climate change is a real money making scam and UN lock down proposal and we are more likely to go into an extended cold term than be burnt to a cinder.
    
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    October 21, 2021 10:30pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Kev is just disappointed the Royal Society isn’t sponsoring research into zero-point energy.
      
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      October 22, 2021 5:00am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    The Marsden Fund is not ‘New Zealand’s major scientific funding’.
    
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    October 22, 2021 4:59am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  So got the job based on merit then, absolutely nothing at all to do with being a person with a vagina who chose her ethnic parentage wisely.
  
  And merrily back to the dark ages we go.
  
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  October 21, 2021 1:32pm
  - sooty
    
    No!
    
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    October 21, 2021 3:32pm
- jon
  
  Two Cindys at the top..thats a worry!!
  
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  October 21, 2021 4:24pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Dan Bongino, Hypersonic. Trump tried to warn, he knew. “I have seen things you don’t want to see”
Biden admin is asleep. Hillary is involved with this. Hope the link works, could not find it elsewhere.
https://www.facebook.com/bonginoreport/videos/1034072830660370
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October 21, 2021 10:07am
- Nickc2
  
  China says its hypersonic-missile was a non-event. It was in fact a spacecraft.
  https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/18/china/china-hypersonic-missile-spacecraft-intl/index.html
  
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  October 21, 2021 12:49pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    CNN? Must be a spacecraft//
    
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    October 21, 2021 2:33pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      It went into space, so of course it is a spacecraft. CNN taking lessons from the bullshitting Jaspinda now?
      
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      October 21, 2021 2:34pm
    - Nickc2
      
      The same thought crossed my mind
      
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      October 21, 2021 2:36pm
Yvette

Is Little sitting on the solution to Maori vaccination, or just sitting on his bum?
Health Minister Andrew Little says the country only has to look at disparities in the Covid-19 vaccination rollout to see that the current health system doesn’t work for Māori.
On Wednesday, the Pae Ora (Healthy Futures) Bill was introduced in Parliament. The proposed law provides the framework for the creation of Health New Zealand and the Māori Health Authority, the two entities that are expected to replace the country’s current DHBs [1]

1
Little told Breakfast he didn’t want to create “undue pressure” during a pandemic by carrying out the reforms.
But, of ex-Health Minister David Clark, Ardern said: “Under normal conditions I would sack the Minister of Health. What he did was wrong, and there are no excuses. But right now, my priority is our collective fight against Covid-19. We cannot afford massive disruption in the health sector or to our [covid] response. For that reason, and that reason alone, Dr Clark will maintain his role.” [2]
But Little is reforming the entire Health sector.

2
As has been said several times earlier on kiwiblog, if the principles of values like whanaungatanga, kaitiakitanga and manaakitanga [3], and any others, validate the establishment a new Māori Health Authority to be set up (legislation introduced yesterday), those principles surely exist now and Health Minister Little should applythem now to Maori vaccination. Otherwise a new Māori Health Authority will be an exercise of culturally mis-appropriated political correctness.

And, if – Pem Bird of Ngāti Manawa says they won’t be getting the jab just yet.
“We’re not following the Crown’s directive. That has been our position for a while,” he said. “We won’t jump when we’re told to. We want the freedom to choose. We want a different vaccine.”
Will Pem Bird be a consultant in the new Māori Health Authority, or one who obeys the decree of the new Māori Health Authority? And will the new Māori Health Authority veto Health New Zealand and say “local Māori don’t want the Pfizer vaccine and [we will wait] for other vaccines [we] think will be more effective”

But that is a present detraction from the challenge to Little –
If the moral Maori justification exists for establishment (now underway) of the new Māori Health Authority, why as Health Minister is Little not applying those separate unique values and knowledge to Maori vaccination now?
__________________
[1] https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/10/20/minister-covid-vaccine-disparities-evidence-health-system-not-working-for-maori/
[2] https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-lockdown-health-minister-david-clark-demoted-after-driving-20km-to-beach-breaking-lockdown-rules/X4AP6J336VNHT7OJYZB6YT6VKQ/
[3] whanaungatanga, kaitiakitanga and manaakitanga – the power of being connected to each other, having an ethic of care, respect in the way we progress, and taking care of things for ourselves and our children – are really nothing new.
Similar clauses were included in the establishment of Te Kāhui Whakamana Rua Tekau mā Iwa, the Pike River Recovery Agency, Cabinet Paper, paragraph 39, which has since been a little flushed down the toilet.
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October 21, 2021 10:11am
- sooty
  
  The Rev David Clark did SFA, while he was there.
  Maybe he was practicing for cindys wedding!
  
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  October 21, 2021 3:30pm
dime

I wonder if my technique to pretend sign in with my vax passport will differ from my pretend sign in with the covid app technique?

walk up.. pretend to do scan.. walk off.

im sure people will be monitoring it real hard lol
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October 21, 2021 10:17am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I won’t use the ap. I just sign in as ‘Donald Duck’ If asked for a phone number I just say ‘ducks don’t have phones.
  Btw, caught a guy taking a photo of the log book. Followed him – fucking real estate agent. I made him delete the photo, or we go for a chat. Low life scum.
  
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  October 21, 2021 11:24am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I think your better course of action would be to get a businesses card from him and then complain to his agency or the REAA. your present MO of threatening violence could easily backfire.
    
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    October 21, 2021 11:39am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Too long and involved. A little chat out the back works just fine – and he won’t do it again. Is there something wrong with giving a prick a thick ear?
      
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      October 21, 2021 1:53pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Yes, there is. You might well get away with it sometimes, but sooner or later some person will give you a hiding or the constabulary will arrest you. But perhaps you are invincible, and have a special relationship with the police.
        
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        October 21, 2021 8:28pm
  - rangitoto
    
    I’m amazed at how many places around Auckland Donald Trump has visited.
    
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    October 21, 2021 12:39pm
- mandk
  
  I don’t even bother to pretend to scan anymore.
  
  Down here in Welly, very few business premises have anyone at the door, checking.
  
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  October 21, 2021 11:47am
Flossie

Lots of wow isn’t it wonderful we have our first Wahine Governor General.
She’s as much non Maori as she is Maori. It’s a bit of a pipe dream to think we are all One People these days isn’t it.
I have nothing against the woman as all I know of her is what is presented in the media. Probably she’ll do a fine job…I wish her well.
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October 21, 2021 10:23am
- KevO'Brien
  
  What % Maori is she? Is she a proven wahine, not just say so?
  
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  October 21, 2021 12:12pm
Southern Raider

Derek Cheung at NZ Herald seems to be direct PR for Jacinda to keep people in fear so we continue in lockdown

Todays article is calling our how many deaths are we willing to accept by loosening restrictions on “fortress Auckland”

How about he does a real job and actually does an article on all the loss, hurt, deaths and long term damage to economy and health of us staying in lockdown
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October 21, 2021 10:47am
- septic skeptic
  
  This Auckland lockdown is like a car crash in slow motion. Our businesses are gradually going under and our lives are wasting away. If you are fortunate, they are wasting away slowly. The less fortunate miss out on cancer diagnosis or succumb to suicide or domestic violence. Health outcomes and life expectancy for decades to come will be adversely affected because our economy is overburdened with debt.
  
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  October 21, 2021 11:41am
lazza

Bowalley Trotter raises the question of;

“Why are Aucklanders now reacting so badly to Covid lockdown constraints”.

Leaving aside the obvious answers, of frustration at the limits placed on our movements and socialisation, the recent downwards movement of the government’s popular vote, coincides with recent trends here, (Auckland) that range from general & open & unhappy disgruntlement … to open civil disobedience.

Trotter points to our Dear Leader’s lately jaded disposition (whenever she bothers to front that is) and no doubt also her realisation that the “tough stuff “(which she habitually avoids fronting) is really! tough now … and she is just a little perplexed as to … “What (TF) do I do/spin … next?”
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October 21, 2021 10:50am
SilverSurfer

I feel a new childrens book coming on “New Zealand the Dog that ate its own tail”
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October 21, 2021 10:54am
Maggie Pie

Looks like the house is still a… ‘Location of Interest’.
REA’s keep putting business cards in my box.
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October 21, 2021 11:09am
lazza

Today’s job data … Note all! the … “DOWNS”.
Small %’s but these are monthly.

Annualised they are very “significant” if the trend continues.

Comment/Fond Hope: “And … DOWN … goes this useless incompetent government too!”

Stats NZ … the number of paid jobs (compared with the previous week) were:

2,277,510 total paid jobs (down 11,810 or 0.52 percent)

100,760 paid jobs in primary industries (down 880 or 0.87 percent)
429,840 paid jobs in goods-producing industries (down 1,830 or 0.42 percent)

1,687,660 paid jobs in services industries (down 8,680 or 0.51 percent)

59,260 paid jobs in unclassified industries (down 410 or 0.69 percent)
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October 21, 2021 11:35am
curry4me

Happy Trafalgar Day, everyone.
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October 21, 2021 11:47am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGzCQZUrs2k

How Australia Is Crashing the World Economy And Taking Down China.

This is the Australian ship called…the topas. In June of 2020 this ship left the port of Queensland in Australia with 90,000 tons of coal as its cargo. Its destination was the port of Jingtang, where it was set to unload its coal, and then travel back to Australia over the course of a few days. But that’s not what happened. Because once the topas reached the port of jingtang, it was not allowed into the Chinese port. So, it waited. One month passed, two months, 6 months, then 10 months. eventually, and the ship, and all its crew found itself being stranded at sea for nearly an entire year, with no end in sight. [12:36. Some interesting points here. Well linked to the Great Leap Forward.]
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October 21, 2021 11:47am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Jmm7GKuVk

The Presitator is Rolling Back Some of his Most Controversial Policies.

Xi Jinping has driven his economy into a hellfire. Many of his policies have caused irreversible damage to the Chinese economy and it seems that the Chinese President can’t really help the Chinese economy come back on track by rolling back his controversial policies. Watch the video to know more. [9:02]
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October 21, 2021 11:48am
- cmm
  
  Yup, they should have slowed down about 5 years ago (maybe 10), but I guess those egos keep growing.
  
  With a command economy they can keep powering on, but that will likely just make the mess a whole lot worse.
  
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  October 21, 2021 5:48pm
  - curry4me
    
    cmm: I wonder how long it’ll be before China crashes and burns again. It has several times previously in it’s history. Like 1912-49 for instance.
    
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    October 21, 2021 8:17pm
Okahu

It’s just gone midday. Batman has torn Scott a fresh one. Milky has schooled Phil best. [That was an unwarranted poke at another commenter, deleted – Mod].

Many thanks DPF. Gold!
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October 21, 2021 12:09pm
Nickc2

Anyone else having difficulty with the Edit Function not working today???
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October 21, 2021 12:23pm
dime

Geez the new governer general doesnt come with the best CV ive ever seen lol

Surely we could have done better?

Im just glad its not ANOTHER white man. its only been 20 years since the last one.
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October 21, 2021 12:37pm
- sooty
  
  Must be a woman’s turn.
  
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  October 21, 2021 3:23pm
surfing

Cracked 100!
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October 21, 2021 1:02pm
- rangitoto
  
  Cindy might deliver Covid for Christmas for the win.
  
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  October 21, 2021 3:27pm
Maggie Pie

One positive thing with being at ‘Alert Level3’ has achieved….. is the complete elimination of Halitosis from the staff working at Asian Supermarkets.

Just saying.

[DPF: Racist. You have a one week holiday]
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October 21, 2021 1:08pm
- septic skeptic
  
  [you’ll get a holiday from KB if you take the piss out of the blog host again – Mod]
  
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  October 21, 2021 2:41pm
septic skeptic

Maybe Cindy IS our guardian angel. 102 cases today and that just happens on a day where she is not delivering her sermon from the podium of truth. Coincidence? I think not.
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October 21, 2021 1:34pm
- septic skeptic
  
  We should have a new anthem:
  
  Saint jar sin dar at thyyy feet
  In our co-vid maaasks weee meet
  Saint of kind-ness we entreat
  Cindeee save Aya Tay ah roar
  
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  October 21, 2021 1:46pm
  - curry4me
    
    septic skeptic: Stealing that.
    
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    October 21, 2021 8:20pm
Clownworld

The rubicon was long crossed a while back. Prior to March 2020 for NZ.

However it brings no good news to say we predicted a global takeover to reduce, contain,restrain and then obliterate what until now were considered inalienable rights.

The corporate woke communisim is the new reset face of the future. The Firowhare today announced it will mandate the only political woke choice in town. From a once admired founder to a firm believer in woke and corporates owning people,it has slid into political frontrunner of corporate influence. Small retailers be damned.

Comply or die is a mere few crafted interactions away. Psychosis has removed the remnants of critical thinkers. Propaganda has worn people thin.

If the answer to an exponentially small risk is taking away freedom temp or permanently, what is the purpose of life?

Freedom used to mean something.

Now not so much?

Who would have thought that corporates and communists would unite in hatred and detusion of a minority?
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October 21, 2021 1:48pm
waikatosinger

Vaccine certificates are coming. I am fully vaccinated but I will NOT be getting one. Time to start pushing back.
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October 21, 2021 1:49pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  After first vax I was given a small purple card with the date and vax type and the batch number. That is as far as I will go. NHI has my details.
  Did you know that purple is the mad man’s colour? Mad artist born 1923, told me that
  
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  October 21, 2021 3:08pm
  - waikatosinger
    
    They gave me one of those too. The woman who gave it to me said to hang onto it as it was proof of vaccination and would be important. When I said “why would I need to prove I’ve been vaccinated – that my private business”, she was … nonplussed.
    
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    October 21, 2021 5:03pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I did not know that, Steve. I do know that your comments sometimes read as if written by a man purpled with rage.
    
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    October 21, 2021 5:11pm
- curry4me
  
  waikatosinger Protests worked in the US. South West Airlines dropped their vax mandate.
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:21pm
Maggy Wassilieff

If you follow trends and have a desire to be a GG, then it might be time to select your diminutive.

The names of our last 3 GGs….

Jerry, Patsy, Cindy….
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October 21, 2021 2:11pm
- mandk
  
  It’s obvious, then.
  
  The next GG should be KB’s very own Maggy.
  
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  October 21, 2021 2:19pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Na, we’ve already had a Castlecliff kid in the job.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/whanganui-chronicle/news/world-famous-in-whanganui-sir-jerry-mateparae/WJB6KYJ3F2VU5V2RWCCTFJYKQM/
    
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    October 21, 2021 4:25pm
    - cmm
      
      Well he did good, so let’s get another Castlecliff kid on the job. Dame Maggy?
      
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      October 21, 2021 4:49pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Dame Maggy… Heck no…
        I’d have to go with my hubby’s title…баронесса
        
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        October 21, 2021 4:57pm
  - greybeard
    
    Hellie?
    Winnie?
    Siouxsie?
    
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    October 21, 2021 5:10pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Johnny Key would carry it off quite well.
      
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      October 21, 2021 5:13pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        or Gerry Brownlee
        
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        October 21, 2021 6:04pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      SFNS
      
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      October 21, 2021 5:31pm
Stu2

When we heard about the forthcoming Friday plan I started recording Maori vax rates, as they may hold everything up.

First dose rates 12+ year old Maori
Sun 66.0%
Mon 66.5%
Tues 66.9%
Wed 67.4$

+1.4% in 3 days
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October 21, 2021 3:41pm
- septic skeptic
  
  IF they insist on this damn silly metric then they should get serious about it. No jobs, no benefits, unless vaxed. Dawn raids again with armed police and forced vaccination if necessary. After all, it’s for their own good – right?
  No, I don’t think that’s a good idea. But somehow it seems more fair and more likely to succeed than locking down the 90% of Auckland that are on the Vax program in order to coerce 50% of Murapara.
  
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  October 21, 2021 10:23pm
emmess

Holy shit, everybody listen to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt4jJhSrDXg
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October 21, 2021 3:56pm
CAKE FACE1

Is this L3 lockdown for Auckland good value at $1 billion per week?*

What are we getting for our money?

I have never been able to work out how they are worth the money.

Somebody must be able to explain.

* Costs for the State only – excludes private sector costs + all negative externalities.
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October 21, 2021 3:57pm
- tf78
  
  No probs, we just achieved the best deal in the whole wide world with the UK – $1b/year for exports. Be still my beating heart (blood pressure has hit the roof).
  
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  October 21, 2021 8:14pm
ecco

I read in the Ferald that the Maori rugby player Sean Wainuis Auckland family want an exemption to attend his tangi. Robertson is quoted as saying that ‘funerals are very difficult’ BUT then adds that ‘cultural issues’ are taken into account.

I’m assuming from that statement that Wainui’s family got an exemption. Many Aucklanders wanting to travel out of Auckland for funerals have been refused. But not for this family. It’s definitely special rules for special people. That’s just appalling really and show where Labour’s priorities lie. So if you are white your rights to attend a funeral and grieve are second rate to Maori families.
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October 21, 2021 3:58pm
- fernglas
  
  I think you will find that it also helps if you are someone with a profile, because that means more people will appreciate just how caring our government is. If you are just some decent member of society who doesn’t have a stack of Facebook followers or mates who are All Blacks and influencers, you will find that compassion is in short supply.
  
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  October 21, 2021 7:48pm
Aquataur

Cindy is SO KIND

She has caused the cancellation the annual Santa Parade in Auckland.

Get your kids to send her crayon art telling her what a big bully and kill-joy she is
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October 21, 2021 4:16pm
- cmm
  
  Just don’t use glitter… coz microplastics!
  
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  October 21, 2021 5:54pm
graham

I see there is an article in the NZ Herald about Climate Change Minister James Shaw. It’s paywalled so I can’t read the full story, but the first sentence states that’s had enough of the criticism over his upcoming trip to Glasgow.

What can I say? My heart bleeds for him.

Does it ever occur to these ministers living in their ivory towers, separated from the great unwashed rabble, to wonder just exactly why there is so much criticism? That maybe – just maybe – the criticism might be ever so slightly justified?
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October 21, 2021 4:16pm
- cmm
  
  If the hypocritical prick doesn’t want criticism then:
  * Perhaps he should reflect on the fact that he is in the top tenth of a percent of NZ air travellers, yet decries people taking a holiday in Oz (when we’re allowed again).
  * That he keeps dissing the most productive people in our economy (the farmers).
  * Does he really need en entourage of 14 groupies to go with him?
  * Heard of Zoom, Skype and Google?
  
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  October 21, 2021 5:58pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    30,000 stuffed shirts pontificating about stuff they know nothing about is a farce that has well earned criticism.
    
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    October 21, 2021 8:14pm
Prince

Shakespeare had an expression for it.
“Hoist by their own petard”
Meaning blown up by their own bomb.

Labour has created a time bomb of racial dissent.
Haley Milne, tumuaki for South Auckland’s Kia Aroha College and vice-president of Te Akatea – the New Zealand Māori Principals’ Association – said whānau from her school are scared to return.
“The [Government] response has very much been focused on different communities and whatever community that is, it’s not ours.
“I keep saying, it’s like colonisation all over again.”
https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/300434751/return-to-school-decision-plays-roulette-with-students-health-mori-education-leaders-say

Some actual numbers from DoH vaccination data.

First doses given 14th to 20th October (so including Super-Saturday weekend, Ardern’s golden moment in the media spotlight, where all other political parties were shoved aside by the media to worship at her feet, 107,000 shots.
The prior week, 7th to 13th, 116,000.

Total doses incl 2nd shots – this week 430,000
Previous week – 507,000

Awkward.
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October 21, 2021 4:18pm
lazza

Trotter asks …

Quote: “When the smoke of the battle against Covid-19 finally clears, what additional achievements will the parties of the Left have to set before the voters – and what plans?”.

I respond:
An election will blow the
socialists away.

It is risible to think that they can stand on their record, a universal record of shame and failure.

They have little intellectual or policy heft. They are the worst government at every level in my lifetime.

Lets hope the sheeple … read this.
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October 21, 2021 4:56pm
- lifesgood
  
  Let’s hang onto the fact that the last election was completely manipulated as a covid election and the left did not win the previous one, Winston gifted it to them. He is an absolute disgrace. By his actions NZ has been virtually destroyed and yet here he is trying to curry favour again. Never, ever trust the man.
  
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  October 21, 2021 7:55pm
Stu2

RNZ Auckland emergency department stress story.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/453951/covid-19-tsunami-coming-emergency-nurse-says-lack-of-planning-causing-anxiety
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October 21, 2021 5:13pm
greybeard

This guy Lloyd Burr currently on MagicTalk, 4pm to 7pm, is really good.
A lot better than Danny Watson, who seems at odds with the general tenor of the station ( and its listeners ) with his constant insertion of maori words and phrases and lack of political conviction.
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October 21, 2021 5:41pm
- ecco
  
  Don’t think I’ll move from HDPA. She’s excellent. Like Hosking.
  
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  October 21, 2021 9:40pm
Maggy Wassilieff

So which MP was wearing Air Jordans in Parliament today?

https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20211021_20211021_16
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October 21, 2021 5:50pm
- lifesgood
  
  I bet it was a Greenie or a Maori Party. Some people have no idea of the time and place. It’s embarrassing. We’ve got these maori Party clowns looking like morons with their cowboys hats and string ties next they’ll be wearing jandals and shorts.
  
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  October 21, 2021 7:52pm
Benedict Yu

Astounding.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126752476/covid19-associate-health-minister-peeni-henare-disappointed-with-dhbs-for-lagging-mori-vaccination-rates

How can this guy say this with a straight face?
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October 21, 2021 6:55pm
- fernglas
  
  It is remarkable that the prospect of vaccination as a way out of the pandemic has been mooted since it began, and it can’t have come as any surprise to Maori that a large number of their rangatahi are vaccine-hesitant, for whatever reason. But, rather like the Government that they now blame for their predicament, they apparently sat back until very recently. To be fair, Maori health providers have had real problems with the Ministry of Health approving anything in the slightest bit innovative, but they could have been doing something about it a year ago. Henare said that when he did his road trip in March-May that it was apparent that vaccine hesitancy amongst Maori was due to a combination of “laziness, apathy and a lack of good information” Which of those three is due to racism, colonialism or white privilege?
  
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  October 21, 2021 7:55pm
- septic skeptic
  
  I have a theory that because many Maori speak neither Maori nor NZ pidgin (as Blofeld is want to do from the podium of truth) they may actually be dis-incentivized by all the Maori language in use in promoting the Vax rollout. After all, if you were part Maori and spoke bugger all Te Reo – how would you identify with Blofeld when he insists on saying tamaki mackurow or whatever instead of Auckland?
  
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  October 21, 2021 10:09pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Labour weekend cancelled for you Waikato folk.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/waikato-top-stories/126753852/covid-19-waikato-to-remain-in-alert-level-3-until-at-least-october-27
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October 21, 2021 7:58pm
ClanMcleod

Time to move on. This shit is over.

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/high-art-as-public-health-allegory?r=u4qo&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=
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October 21, 2021 8:58pm
ABS4EVA

NOVAVAX is the Answer
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October 22, 2021 3:48pm

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