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October 23, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 23 October 2021

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General Debate

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krazykiwi

I see the vaccination hamster wheel is spinning furiously in the UK with Whitehall considering reducing the booster ‘wait’ from six to five months.

To really streamline the process, the dutiful shoulder presenters could be able to book their next procedure while waiting in line for the current one.

A question for the double jabbed here: What is your thinking about your next shot? Will you: –

A) Continue to get regularly jabbed primarily so your vaccination status allows Ardern to grant you a ‘normal’ life; or,

B) Continue to get regularly jabbed primarily so you won’t catch or die from Covid-19; or,

C) Adopt some other strategy.
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October 23, 2021 8:00am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  D) follow the advice of one’s doctor?
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:01am
  - bronny1
    
    Who will tell you do do whatever Jacinda says bc he wants to keep his job?
    
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    October 23, 2021 8:27am
    - kowtow
      
      And not be identified and publicly villified by the Media Pardy.
      
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      October 23, 2021 9:41am
  - SilverSurfer
    
    You mean those doctors that are being heavily censured and turfed out of their own industry for questioning things and having some integrity or the ones regurgitating the same ole shit they are told to, you need to be a bit more clear on these things MMA?
    
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    October 23, 2021 8:34am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    I don’t think psychiatrists are experts in epidemiology milky, you should probably get a second opinion.
    
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    October 23, 2021 8:43am
    - ByGolly
      
      That made my day!
      
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      October 23, 2021 8:52am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      You think an epidemiologist would be better placed to provide individual advice than a psychiatrist?
      
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      October 23, 2021 9:23am
      - pdm
        
        Well Mikey if the epidemiologist was Hendy, Baker, Wiles or one of a few others advising the PM I would say – NO WAY JOSE!!!
        
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        October 23, 2021 9:56am
      - burt
        
        Only if they agree with the government direction and narrative, if they don’t they must be ridiculed and fired.
        
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        October 23, 2021 10:43am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Quite a sensible option for most. I assume these downticks are playing the man not the ball.
    
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    October 23, 2021 8:54am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    My wife is a Dr, PhD molecular biology to be precise and she ain’t having a bar of it bro.
    
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    October 23, 2021 9:12am
    - hullkiwi
      
      My wife has just spoken with an acquaintance who is a senior ward nurse in Auckland and her comments were:
      1. More people use to die of annual flu in NZ than have died of Covid;
      2. Hospitals, because of the air conditioning systems have always helped spread viruses around hospitals, meaning staff often catch & suffer from viruses brought in from outside;
      3. Because of lockdown & the reduced border traffic, NZ’s hospitals haven’t seen the usual number of flu patients for the last two years;
      4. The push for us to be vaccinated is because of historic under investment in the medical infrastructure and staff (going back decades); and
      5. Senior practicing medical staff are getting very p*ssed off with the lies that are being pumped to the public by:
      a) Jax and her circle of numpties (including Bloomfield and her ignorant political colleagues);
      b) the paid for queue of academic advisors – who she said “know absolute s**tall all about the subject they talk about apparently so knowingly because a microphone and camera is pointed their direction”; and
      c) media personalities who also don’t have a clue about the subject matter, spouting on about getting vaccinated; and
      6. Finally, it appears medical practioners are also very pis**d off that $millions, and staff resources are being diverted into getting Maoris vaccinated, when Maoris usually “don’t give a f*ck about their health” and other medical needs are being ignored completely
      
      As she put it to Mrs HK, “there have been comments in the media about medical staffing problems, well that is only the tip of the iceberg. There is seething contempt and anger. And when the borders open properly, don’t get caught near the exit gates as young medics (doctors and nurses) try to get away from the stupidity here.
      
      Oh, and by the way, a message for all our Labour trolls, and to prove just how pointless the exercise to get us all vaccinated is, reports in the past few days have confirmed that there have been identified cases of a new variant of the Covid Delta strain. Cases of the new variant have been identified in the UK and California. So what next for the vaccine push in NZ and Jax’s traffic lights – or are they going to be out of action before they even get turned on?
      
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      October 23, 2021 1:49pm
  - rouppe
    
    I wonder what the patients of Dr Mengele thought about his advice…
    
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    October 23, 2021 9:32am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I did Nazi that coming…
      
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      October 23, 2021 2:19pm
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    Or is that follow the advice that ones doctor is being fed.
    
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    October 23, 2021 6:31pm
- PhilBest
  
  The “low risk” of poking mRNA into people’s bodies along with anti-freeze and a few other dodgy adjuvants of course multiplies by the number of times you do it.
  
  Are the comparisons of risk taking this into account? Once you have caught Covid, that is the risk of that over with – and we know which 99.7% of the population won’t die, and we know who might get seriously ill and why.
  
  On the other hand, these mRNA jabs are riddled with unknown unknowns. To say the jury of experts is “still out” is an understatement, the people saying “the science is settled” just show what moral monsters they are. It is impossible to say that; this is is the stuff of philosophy and morals and people are entitled to judge as human beings on that basis alone, “Pandora’s Box” springs to mind.
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:06am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Spot the inconsistency:
    “Once you have caught covid, that is the risk of that over with”
    “On the other hand these mRNA jabs are riddled with unknown unknowns”
    
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    October 23, 2021 8:51am
    - PhilBest
      
      You need to explain a bit further. Are you subscribing to the big fat noble LIE that natural immunity is ineffective?
      
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      October 23, 2021 10:36am
      - septic skeptic
        
        I’m simply quoting two parts of your post. The first states that once you have had and recovered from Covid, there is no possibility that you can be seriously reinfected ever again. No concerns about long term immunity there then, nor any concerns about new variants.
        The second part says, we have only been dealing with vaccines for a couple of years, the long term picture is therefore uncertain (unkown unknowns).
        I haven’t even heard the one about natural immunity being ineffective – unless you are referring to our natural immunity prior to first becoming infected with Covid. In that case, yes – people don’t have immunity as it is a new disease. The places I do my research say that immunity acquired from a natural infection is longer lasting that what you get from any of the current vaccines.
        
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        October 23, 2021 1:07pm
      - PhilBest
        
        This estimable Doctor really nails the way I am thinking:
        
        https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/10/physicians_and_the_vaccine_tyranny_.html
        
        We physicians gave up our training and our reasonable medical thought process. The reasons are multiple. First, it was the easy way out. Second, many of us are employed and fear reprisal. Third, despite what the public thinks, we physicians are not bold leaders, we tend to be sheep, and are afraid of having an entire institution ostracize us or our colleagues to think us crazy.
        
        As we got to the point of vaccine rollout, doctors were not using the scientific method, questioning and challenging prevailing hypotheses. They kept their heads down, closed clinics, converted to telemedicine, and pushed only the jab.
        
        I had conversations with doctors who are supposed experts in virology and immunology denying the lasting immunity of natural infection. Conversations about natural immunity:
        
        “I have antibodies.”
        
        “But they will wane.”
        
        “But I have memory cells.”
        
        Dumbfounded look.
        
        Really, are these the leaders we want?
        
        As for physicians, those who are blindly following the government edicts are culpable in a moral atrocity. Bullying and deriding patients who chose to refrain from this still experimental therapy is an abomination. (You will say it isn’t experimental anymore, to which I would say that just because the government broke its own rules regarding approval, doesn’t make it legal or right). Patients have sincere beliefs for making their choice. Respect their thoughts. Do you yell as much at smokers, drinkers, fornicators, drug abusers, etc? No, I think not. I think you chose to fit in because it gives you a sense of righteousness.
        
        And going so far as to encourage vaccination in children and pregnant women is crazy. There is blood on the hands of any physician who does this. With children, there is no benefit to the vaccine, only harm. They would serve themselves and society better with natural immunity. The vaccine hasn’t been studied on women and their babies. It is pregnancy category X (unknown) but being pushed wholesale on these poor women without proper studies. Shame on you, doctors who are doing this. I certainly have lots to answer for when I meet my maker, but this is on another level.
        
        I beg physicians to get back to basics, remember all the epidemiology and immunology that bored us to tears in school. Investigate the real literature and take a stand. Society needs us to do this. Even if you have been vaccinated, help those who are fighting for their lives. Stand up against this forced vaccine tyranny. Support those who have legitimate reasons for declining the jab. If you don’t stand up now, who will stand up for you when you are faced with your choice of yet another booster or your job.
        
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        October 23, 2021 4:28pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Septic Skeptic ; “unless you are referring to our natural immunity prior to first becoming infected with Covid. In that case, yes – people don’t have immunity as it is a new disease.”
        
        Several high profile epidemiologists and virologists have stated that because of previous exposure to other similar Corona viruses, around 30% of the population were sufficiently immune to Covid 19 from the get go. T Cell immunity apparently.
        
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        October 23, 2021 7:25pm
  - John Pakes
    
    Stop spreading bullshit.
    Polyethylene Glycol is in the vaccine.
    Ethylene Glycol is in anti freeze.
    They are not the same product.
    
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    October 23, 2021 9:30am
    - septic skeptic
      
      Mind you, the way this wind is blowing today a spot of antifreeze could be just what the doctor ordered
      
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      October 23, 2021 9:57am
    - Ed Snack
      
      John is quite correct, PEG is a polymer and has quite different properties to EG.
      
      PEG is used in both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines to stabilise the lipid capsule that contains the mRNA material. Otherwise it’s primary medical use is as a laxative, obviously in much larger quantities than in the vaccine.
      
      The US has warnings out on both vaccines regarding anaphylactic shock reactions to PEG though the incidence is not high.
      
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      October 23, 2021 10:28am
    - PhilBest
      
      And Ivermectin is “horse de-wormer”.
      
      Can’t say I want Polyethylene Glycol injections as a rule.
      
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      October 23, 2021 10:35am
    - bennerg
      
      I guess it’s like them calling Ivermectin, one of the safest human drugs, being labelled as horse de-wormer!
      
      The first casualty in any war is truth! And we are at war. Sadly with each other.
      
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      October 23, 2021 11:08am
    - CJames
      
      All glycols can act as an anti- freeze and invariably they are a mixture; as for engines, they don’t need lab level purity. Ethylene glycol used to be the standard but most now are propylene glycol. My organic chemistry never went deep enough to know if that can easily be converted to the poly- version
      That said, they are likely to be in a lot of things at ppb levels, even organic grown food, and don’t do harm in small doses.
      
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      October 23, 2021 11:58am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      These guys have never heard of datasheets needing to publicised when a vaccine is approved. It’s all off the cuff and becomes “unknown unknowns” as if that is a medical term in approving a vaccine. Poor wee dears need the sandpit topped because it’s got anonymous bird poo in it.
      
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      October 23, 2021 1:19pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Genius Pakes, tell me what primary chemical is used in the red coloured antifreeze used in many vehicles these days?
      
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      October 24, 2021 1:23pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Another report confirming your opinion:
    
    https://truthbasedmedia.com/2021/10/22/dr-steven-hotze-warns-about-the-dangerous-ingredients-in-covid-19-vaccines-including-graphene-oxide/
    
    I reckon this next 12 months will see critical revelations.
    
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    October 23, 2021 9:30am
    - Simon
      
      “I reckon this next 12 months will see critical revelations”
      
      They will be censored. In 6 months time Everyone will know someone who has either died out of the ordinary or had a serious illness out of the ordinary.
      
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      October 23, 2021 9:46am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        They may not be able to censor an avalanche.
        
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        October 23, 2021 12:26pm
    - WaveyDavey
      
      “truthbasedmedia.com”
      
      Other headlines follow:
      
      DEEP STATE
      The Empire of Lies Breaks Down: Ugly Truths the Deep State Wants to Keep Hidden
      
      NIH CONFIRMS
      Flip-Flopping Fascist Fear Fuhrer Fauci LIED About Funding Gain-of-Function Research
      
      Nothing on the site to tell you who they are
      
      Sounds legit…
      
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      October 23, 2021 9:47am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      This Dr Hotze?
      
      https://www.fda.gov/inspections-compliance-enforcement-and-criminal-investigations/warning-letters/health-wellness-center-international-one-llc-dba-hotze-vitamins-607276-12022020
      
      The one who pimps his own-brand vitamins as a Covid cure?
      
      Two words – second one “off”
      
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      October 23, 2021 9:55am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Just Kev ‘doing his own research’ again, the same way he became an expert on zero-point energy, etc, etc.
        
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        October 23, 2021 2:24pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        I know nothing about zero point energy except it sounds very peculiar. I do know that they have cracked the cold fusion solution.
        
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        October 23, 2021 5:23pm
  - I remember when
    
    It used to be a small number of vaccinations once in a lifetime or maybe every five or ten years.
    Then an influenza jab yearly.
    Now a covid jab once or twice (?) a year.
    
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    October 23, 2021 9:42am
    - Greg Ettridge
      
      So if you go twice are they going to chuck the other three in the bin, seems a tad wasteful to me.
      
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      October 23, 2021 6:35pm
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  That will be how it pans out. Like everything else that ends up as a supposedly “new development” in the fight against Covid, Ardern knows that additional boosters will be the next step. But she will not admit this now, because she wants people to naively line up, thinking they will be sorted with just the two. Wrong. The writing is on the wall: unless this is stopped in its tracks via mass non-compliance, this is the start of a lifetime of coerced medication. There will be a “need” for regular boosters to keep the social credit ID valid. “New viruses” will arise that need yet more medical intervention. They may as well give each of the currently double-dosed an intravenous drip trolley for a permanent and constant supply.
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:08am
  - bronny1
    
    Yup so if you agree with the vax passport to give freedom to the vaxxed, bear in mind the slippery slope you are on to your next booster.
    
    People should be out protesting this insane passport scheme!
    
    And FFS why are we not letting the virus go now while it’s summer rather than when vax protection has fallen and winter is on the e way!?
    
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    October 23, 2021 8:30am
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      Bear in mind too, that it is one thing to get the vaccine if you wish; it is another thing entirely to advocate for a digital ID. We shouldn’t conflate the two. Plenty of vaccinated people are protesting around the world against the various IDs in various countries.
      
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      October 23, 2021 9:25am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The “tricky ” virus has turned another trick…
    
    The delta variant has morphed into delta-plus (AY.4.2) and is racing (“surging”) through UK, Israel, and Russia.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59009293
    https://www.dnaindia.com/world/report-all-about-delta-variant-ay42-that-is-increasing-covid-19-infections-in-uk-russia-israel-2916494
    
    Prediction: When it becomes clear here in NZ that double-vaxxed folk are filling up hospital beds , we will be spun a story about needing to go back into lockdowns, or code reds, or Level 4.3, etc until a “new vaccine” appears.
    
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    October 23, 2021 8:38am
    - PhilBest
      
      I second that prediction. I say it is written on the wall in block capitals ten feet high.
      
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      October 23, 2021 8:40am
    - kowtow
      
      Yep , that light at the end of the tunnel is someone bringing along yet another ‘variant”.
      
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      October 23, 2021 8:43am
      - oldfella
        
        …that light at the end of the tunnel is someone bringing along yet another ‘variant”.
        
        @kowtow, remember…
        Politicians are people who, when they see light at the end of the tunnel, go out and buy some more tunnel. (John Quinton, American actor/writer)
        
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        October 23, 2021 10:33am
    - septic skeptic
      
      Delta plus is not significantly different from Delta. But it could make for a good excuse, if it makes its way through MIQ.
      
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      October 23, 2021 8:58am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Not “thought” to be significantly different, still under investigation according to the reports. It has reached 6-8% of test results, while standard “delta” is otherwise dominant.
        
        It carries a couple of modifications to the S protein.
        
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        October 23, 2021 10:32am
      - PhilBest
        
        I recall explanations I’ve read somewhere of how the DNA of SARS CoV-2 is different to SARS CoV-1 in terms of fractions of a percent, and each “variant” of “2” is far less significantly different than that.
        
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        October 23, 2021 10:38am
      - Mr_Blobby
        
        ” if it makes its way through MIQ”
        
        You mean WHEN it makes it way through MIQ.
        
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        October 23, 2021 11:09am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      That appears all planned from the outset.
      Now all we need is the Mahuta takeover of New Zealand and New Tyranny will be practically complete.
      
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      October 23, 2021 9:34am
      - oldfella
        
        @Kev, Cindy and co sure picked a great time for an enormous restructuring of the health system. Yep.
        What could possibly go wrong? /s
        
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        October 23, 2021 10:36am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      The evidence is in. Vaccination status makes no difference. We have been lied to from the very first day of this. Downtick if you want, but debunk the information if you decide to do so. Otherwise stick your tick you know where.
      
      “Official UK Data Shows Kiwis Are Being Seriously Misled About the COVID-19 Jab”
      
      https://www.bitchute.com/video/MYfSAUIbuOsx/
      
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      October 23, 2021 10:23am
    - coge
      
      Cindy says jump!
      
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      October 23, 2021 10:29am
    - Im Right
      
      Maggoe, did you honestly think Labour/MSM wont have Covid front and centre come election time. Watch the headlines of ‘Jacinda saved us all’, ‘A million would be dead without Jacinda’…etc etc blah blah.
      The MSM and Labour NEED the next election to be Covid centric as Labour have NOTHING else to show….stats are terrible on housing/health/homeless/mental health outcomes, this Govt has ONLY Covid to talk about, bugger all else.
      
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      October 23, 2021 10:36am
      - Paulus
        
        Two years is a lifetime in Politics remember Jacinda !
        
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        October 23, 2021 1:49pm
    - stewmar
      
      MW, the BBC article that you attached a link to completely contradicts what you have written.
      
      The article says that 6% of people with Covid19 could have the new variant (that’s not exactly a “surge”) and furthermore experts say that the current vaccines will work on the new variant. Are you scaremongering by any chance?
      
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      October 23, 2021 11:32am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Not scaremongering… just stating the bleeding obvious that viruses mutate over time.
        
        https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-55404988
        
        This is bleeding obvious to anyone who has the slightest knowledge of viruses and their reproduction biology.
        
        But Our Government has acted as if everything changed when “Delta” arrived…
        
        I’m just signalling that we will be hit with another covid variant story in the next year or so…
        
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        October 23, 2021 1:16pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Are you even breathing? No one knows about boosters? Crikey.
    Something which is plainly evident, but unmentioned here, was yesterday’s boost pledge to Maori health providers was more than likely a “deal” in an effort to get Maori vaccination rates up and give the traffic light system get broader parliamentary approval.
    The obvious reason for that is within the traffic light scheme is the mechanism to shut down areas from travel where there might be broad outbreaks of covid in a poorly vaccinated area. The object of that is pretty obvious.
    
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    October 23, 2021 1:29pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Good question.
  
  I don’t know what I will do. Make the best decision I can at the time.
  
  Based on the information I have now, boosters should probably be reserved for the elderly and vulnerable. That makes sense.
  
  To be honest for people younger than 60 and who are otherwise healthy, the best course would be to get vaccinated and then just wait to inevitably be exposed to the virus. You will then (probably) have long lasting immunity.
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:10am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    Once you are fully in the vaccine ID net, you won’t have a choice Benedict. The crucial thing is to not allow a net to be constructed. That means non-compliance. Once it starts, its not stopping when you think you’ve had enough.
    
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    October 23, 2021 8:15am
    - bronny1
      
      Yup so if you agree with the vax passport to give freedom to the vaxxed, bear in mind the slippery slope you are on to your next booster
      
      24 2
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      October 23, 2021 8:31am
      - Aurelia
        
        And add in any other medical intervention they feel like forcing on us. Thus ain’t just about covid. It’s the tip of the ice berg.
        
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        October 23, 2021 7:38pm
    - lastmanstanding
      
      The Left here there and everywhere have been looking for an excuse to introduce ID for years. They yearn for the days of East Germany. Covid has given them the excuse they were looking for.
      
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      October 23, 2021 10:02am
      - Alwyn Poole
        
        As the late great Norm MacDonald said; “ID is a weird abbreviation.”
        
        “I” is short for I and “D” is short for Dentification.
        
        Irrelevant but funny.
        
        Thought this was his best skit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmDoDrzLi68&ab_channel=klassicklipz
        
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        October 23, 2021 10:16am
      - Ed Snack
        
        So Alwyn, something to get your teeth into …?
        
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        October 23, 2021 10:33am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      I’m sure there was a conspiracy theorist warning of ongoing boosters a year ago. Of course I told them to get help as they were seriously deranged. They said something about vaccine passports at the same time. Some people! Just ignore them and follow the single source of truth and everything will be fine.
      
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      October 23, 2021 10:27am
      - Ditch the Bitch
        
        The difference between a conspiracy theory and truth is only a matter of time
        
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        October 23, 2021 1:13pm
  - gravedodger
    
    Your analysis is always worthy of respect Ben however I have a slightly differing opinion here in that I wonder if the experimental inoculations should have been only for the vulnerable all along and a hold on the mass efforts been subject to a more reasoned approach?
    
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    October 23, 2021 8:36am
  - PhilBest
    
    We know enough now for people to be able to be exposed to the virus in harmless doses and this would be a perfectly valid alternative to vaccination.
    
    This proposal is now nearly a year old:
    
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7685031/
    
    I’d sign up for that if it was on offer.
    
    My worst fear is that “the vaccinated” turn out to have increased vulnerability to some future “Covid strain” or new virus – and “the solution” is tyrannical disruption and control forever. Don’t say it isn’t possible.
    
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    October 23, 2021 8:43am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    The question isn’t about immunity; it was never about immunity. It’s about control; it was always about control.
    
    Having immunity is no protection against a corrupt government intent on denying our natural rights and freedoms. If it was, then the person who has been double-vaccinated and had 3 negative tests would be allowed out of MIQ two days early to see his dying father. But that would mean relinquishing control, so it cannot be permitted, regardless of immunity.
    
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    October 23, 2021 8:46am
    - Nickc2
      
      As I said the other day, her desire for total control of the population of NZ has gone to her head and she won’t relinquish control whatever the situation.
      I bet that when she went to school she wouldn’t play team sports unless she was the captain. I also bet that when she couldn’t be captain, she ceased playing that particular sport and sought another.
      No doubt there’s a scientific word for this behavioral trait but IMO, the term Dictator will suffice as the world has suffered from these people throughout history. Mark my words, she will join these ranks if she isn’t already there.
      
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      October 23, 2021 9:39am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Thanks for thinking of us. But could we have honesty first?
    
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    October 23, 2021 9:36am
  - I remember when
    
    So are we back to the Swedish approach with perhaps a little more attention to the venerable back in 2020.
    Are we starting to ask whether the ‘elimination’ strategy was ever the correct answer.
    Will it always get back to personal responsibility.
    
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    October 23, 2021 9:51am
  - Anthony Coates
    
    Hi Benedict. Just read some interesting info in the UK Vaccine Surveillance for week 42. While broadly supportive of vaccination, there is a detail on page 23 that is alarming. “(iii) recent observations from UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) surveillance data that N antibody levels appear to be lower in individuals who acquire infection following 2 doses of vaccination”. Seems to indicate your immunity will be hampered by the vaccine after you encounter the virus in the wild. Thoughts?
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1027511/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-42.pdf
    
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    October 23, 2021 12:07pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Sorry beyond the limits of my research. I know that there are antibodies against both S and N proteins but I don’t understand it all.
      
      So this may be a thing. Or not. Something to watch.
      
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      October 23, 2021 12:51pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      This is definitely something to watch. Like Benedict, I have done little research on this topic, but studies are now starting to appear. If this postulation begins being validated by observational evidence then hundreds of millions of low-risk individuals will have more poorly performing immune systems as a direct result of leaders forcing a one size fits all therapy on their populations.
      
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      October 23, 2021 2:39pm
- pdm
  
  We cannot reduce from 6 to 5 months.
  
  From what I hear we have not even ordered vaccine for the essential workers due for their 6 month booster due now.
  
  After all we do not want to lose our control over the people do we Jacinda – you nincompoop.
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:32am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Then vaccinated folk will soon have to avoid other vaxxed folk, because no-one will know when their immunity levels do a big dip…..
    
    On the basis of published results from vaccine trials and other data sources, they estimated that people immunized against COVID-19 would lose approximately half of their defensive antibodies every 108 days or so. As a result, vaccines that initially offered, say, 90% protection against mild cases of disease might only be 70% effective after 6 or 7 months1.
    
    COVID vaccine immunity is waning — how much does that matter?
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02532-4
    With older folks there seems to be a pretty rapid drop-off in antibodies.
    
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    October 23, 2021 9:53am
    - Redapplefalls
      
      I was encouraged by the observation that although antibodies fall, which is natural in the absense of threat, the cellular immune system retains it’s knowledge of the virus and the steps to take to fight it.
      
      “In one of the only long-term studies to consider these three planks of the immune system simultaneously — antibodies, B cells and T cells — researchers found that vaccination spurred durable cellular immunity5. Memory B cells continued to grow in numbers for at least six months, and got better at fighting the virus over time. T-cell counts remained relatively stable, dipping only slightly over the duration of the study period.
      
      “So, you have this reserve,” says John Wherry, an immunologist at the University of Pennsylvania Perelman School of Medicine in Philadelphia, who led the study. “Circulating antibodies may be declining, but your immune system is capable of jumping into action once again.”
      
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      October 23, 2021 10:49am
    - bennerg
      
      Curious about the maths there. Essentially the vaccines have an effectiveness half life of 108 days, So it would make sense then that if they start off at 90% effective, then:
      3 months – 45%
      6 months – 22.5%
      1 year – 11.25%
      
      Sounds like the most brilliant business strategy for Pfizer & Co.
      
      Followed by our opportunistic PM to follow China in the social engineering programme.
      
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      October 23, 2021 11:18am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Like watching the petrol gauge on your car Maggie. Too difficult?
      
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      October 23, 2021 1:35pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Do you have any way of measuring your antibody levels at home?
        Can you estimate the responsiveness of your B cells as you enter your declining years?
        
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        October 23, 2021 2:38pm
- burt
  
  Boosters are only one of the elephants in the room.
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:44am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    If Collins had any political nous (and wasn’t an advocate of bio-metric tyranny herself), she would be getting Ardern on record as much as possible denying everything that will be coming in due course.
    
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    October 23, 2021 10:27am
- Simon
  
  Lol – the boosters. Can anyone see the clown show admin 1.5 or 2 million boosters by March April 2022?
  
  The 30 year old sheep worried about missing out. The Maori medical industry complex needing another $1 billion to “reach” Maori for the boosters.
  
  The nutjob traffic light system incorporating boosters status.
  
  Thank god the virus IFR is .02%.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:29am
- Vory v zakone
  
  Meanwhile PFIZER warns a fourth BOOSTER shot may be needed for those who haven’t died yet…
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:35am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    upside you can order less the more that die.
    
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    October 23, 2021 6:40pm
- DeepBlue
  
  For the vax certificate to make any sense it should automatically invalidate access after the medically prescribed protection period, say 6 months, but this period is falling quickly.
  
  The day it is introduced a very large number of vaccinated passes will fail access. All hell will break out, and the traffic light system will fail also. JA will have to change the rules again, and she will lose more credibility again.
  
  Individually if one is healthy and young I can’t see people going back for boosters. For high risk people it becomes a real dilemma. Every five months is not what was promised. Annually would be OK.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:44am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    when boosters started in Israel, 1 million doubled vaxxed became non vaxxed, go figure.
    
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    October 23, 2021 6:42pm
    - Aurelia
      
      That’s correct. The double jabbed had their status returned to unvaxed. So when we hear the unvaxed are dying now in Israel its more BS. The double jabbed are dying.
      
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      October 23, 2021 7:48pm
- thirteenstars
  
  Oh, A.
  
  Why? Because we now effectively have a National ID card which your rights of citizenship–of being able to function in society–now depends upon.
  
  Over time there have been suggestions for a National ID (the Kiwi Card?), always couched in terms of “practicality”, you know, it just makes things easier if everyone presents a card to identify themselves. And the disingenuous arguments put forth such as, well, you have a tax number, a driver licence number, a social welfare number, so why not just have one super-duper number on a convenient little card?
  
  Why not indeed…
  
  Well, brothers and sisters, now you’ve got one, except it’s likely your multipass vaxpass, is even more redolent of oppression than an actual National ID since it’s not just about identification, it’s about permission.
  
  Papers, please!
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:54am
  - Paulus
    
    The Health Department has your ID via your NHI Number required for all forms of medication remember.
    
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    October 23, 2021 1:53pm
    - thirteenstars
      
      Indeed. My list obviously wasn’t exhaustive.
      
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      October 23, 2021 3:16pm
- rouppe
  
  I’m going to demand a release from the restrictions to prove their benign intent before boosting.
  
  Boosters should become a part of all the other boosters one can choose to get, or not get.
  
  The carrot has been dangled. If it is suddenly pulled away again then we know they’re lying about everything. Which we kind of did anyway
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:54am
- ABS4EVA
  
  I am happy with Nova Vax as it is a traditional
  Vaccine that technology has caused no issues for 25 years. So in theory should be a “safer bet”
  (though it innovates) I also likes the cellular simplicity of it as I am pre disposed to cancer. I also like the fact they will bundle this with a flu jab. I do not take the annual flu jab but this is sensible.
  
  I have a medical work from home exception until it arrives.
  
  It is also ethically produced (no aborted fetus cell lines) What ever your belief Life Starts Scientifically at Conception, the fight against COVID takes place at a cellular level.
  Your understanding of the virus must go to that level
  
  Your approach to this battle has to be detailed specific and technically informed at a cellular level. To choose a Vaccine and also develop a COVID Strategy that works FOR YOU. 3 months research and study would be the minimum to make and informed CHOICE.
  
  I think it is unreasonable to expect people to rush medical decisions, I am a person who needs to understand exactly every detail of any medicine I take for any condition or threat.
  
  My study is on going – but I must say I am absolutely impressed by the absolute Brilliance of NOVAVAX
  
  MY BODY – MY CHOICE
  
  I also mention it has higher efficacy in tests
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:44am
- Colville
  
  Personally I will worry about it in 6 months.
  By then the situation will have evolved dramatically and there will be various choices like the Merck pill.
  Right now having 2 in the arm is best and safest.
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:12am
- backster
  
  D. Go back to my Marae and try to latch on to some of the free dosh being lavished on friends of Labour’s Maori Caucus.
  
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  October 23, 2021 1:08pm
- Observer of Life
  
  Jacinda Ardern IS the disease ?
  
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  October 23, 2021 2:51pm
- Akarak
  
  There is no path to ‘normality’.
  The green light remains loaded with restrictions and the Government still retains the right to change the colour of the light whenever it feels it needs to.
  It is recognised that the Pfizer vaccine will only provide protection for a limited time. That time is influenced by a number of factors including age etc.
  This is why Pfizer has developed a ‘booster’ vaccine which should be given within a period of time following the second vaccination. Many of those who were vaccinated early are now nearing that time.
  It does not appear that the government has acquired any of the ‘booster shot’ vaccines.
  Which leads me to the question: How can any Certificate of Vaccination (presumably carrying a photo ID) be used as an actual verification of the true status of its holder unless it carries the dates of the vaccinations received and a date indicating when the card will be deemed to be invalid.
  Under this government we will never be free.
  There is no indication of life outside of the green light.
  WE do not have an open and transparent government. We are mere pawns to a manipulative and controlling cabal of no-hopers with no experience in the real world.
  God help us if Covid becomes an annual fixture in our calendar.
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:23pm
Benedict Yu

Jacinda’s plan got me thinking about this passage from the bible.

Matthew 7:24-27: “….. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”
__________

The ‘sand’ on which Jacinda’s plan is built is the longevity of the Pfizer vaccine’s efficacy in preventing infection and transmission of the COVID virus. This is distinct from its apparent enduring efficacy at protecting against serious illness.

Yesterday’s plan was based on waiting for every region of New Zealand to reach 90 percent vaccination levels, and the use of vaccination certificates to prevent transmission of the virus.

But here is the problem. We are all on a kind of ‘count down’.

While we wait and wait and wait for the 90 percent threshold, the protection afforded by the Pfizer vaccine against infection is steadily declining. By early next year, most vaccinated people will have, at best, 40 percent protection against infection. It will then decline to about 20 percent 12 months after vaccination. This is not speculation. The data from countries that went early with Pfizer is definitive.

There is only one benefit that makes the vaccine valuable. Protection against serious illness and death. Well, at least so far. Protection against infection is, let’s say, ‘tenuous’.

And yet yesterday’s circus was based on a cornerstone assumption that the vaccine provides long lasting protection against infection. Hence the use of vaccine certificates to permit you to do just about anything in society. But by mid 2022 the holder of a vaccine certificate will not be materially less prone to infection than someone without a certificate.

And in all the breathless reporting yesterday, not a single person in the media pointed to this fatal flaw in the plan.
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October 23, 2021 8:00am
- krazykiwi
  
  Good questions, and a relevant scripture reference.
  
  It is staggering that our media won’t ask the obvious questions. For me another unchallenged matter is the continued, and futile focus on preventing the spread of infections. It is an epidemiological and observational certainly that every NZer will be exposed to this. Where is the honesty? Where is the wisdom about simple treatments and individual agency?
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:12am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I believe I made the right to be vaccinated. But I recognised it was not zero risk.
    
    Despite being a vaccine advocate, yesterday’s announcements are deeply concerning. The Government has effectively made vaccination compulsory. Being unvaccinated will mean that you cannot effectively participate in society. You will not be able to do much except stay at home. If you go out, or attempt to do stuff you will be treated by many with hatred.
    
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    October 23, 2021 8:21am
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      Hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.
      
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      October 23, 2021 8:25am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Even worse, Ardern has gone all Muldoonist with her “divide and conquer” stance. She has set New Zealander against New Zealander, she’s ripped apart the notion of a “team of five million”, and her infamous and oft repeated “be kind” mantra will be replaced by “only be kind to the vaxxed”. This is going to be a real test for her popularity.
      
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      October 23, 2021 8:32am
      - pdm
        
        Inv – I believe that popularity has always been built misconception that she had a slight idea she knew what she was doing.
        
        It isnow well proven – she hasn’t a bloody clue.
        
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        October 23, 2021 8:39am
      - septic skeptic
        
        I predict a U-turn on the treatment of the un-vaxed, once we get to 90%. “Because these restrictions would have a disproportionate effect on Maori”
        Whe you think it through, this is almost certainly another cycle bridge.
        
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        October 23, 2021 9:08am
      - Tom Hunter
        
        The good news is that your National Party and Judith Collins, will be talking about how to roll this back, yes?
        
        ACT too, right Mr Seymour?
        
        That’s correct guys?…… Right?…… right?
        
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        October 23, 2021 9:37am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        It will be pulled apart in Court as she has regimented her procedures and isolated herself and team. She is seriously open for attack.
        
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        October 23, 2021 9:40am
      - DeepBlue
        
        I too concluded that Jacinda can never utter the words Team of 5M again.
        
        She’s now gone to the teams of possibles and improbables. Line up, line up, for your Red and Blue vests.
        
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        October 23, 2021 9:51am
    - CJames
      
      There are a lot of societal risks to making 10% of the population pariahs. Alienating the anti-vaxxers in creating an “us and them” society will never end well.
      
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      October 23, 2021 8:33am
      - PhilBest
        
        Progressivism is riddled with reasoning about how victim classes are created and then resentment and pushback. Ironically they never allow this as a factor with, say, rust belt unemployed whitey, and they are clearly ignoring the possibilities for increasingly desperate “unvaxxed” plus other crushed people like small business owners.
        
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        October 23, 2021 8:46am
      - rouppe
        
        The “us and them” society has parallels in history.
        
        This is classic National Socialism. If you’re on my side you’re part of the team of five million. If you’re not on my side, we have a way of identifying you for opprobrium.
        
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        October 23, 2021 9:49am
      - artemisia
        
        Some of those 10% pariahs will not be permitted to work, so will be on welfare for years, maybe forever. As the taxpayer cohort shrinks a vicious cycle will get underway. Starting with another taxpayer brain drain across the ditch.
        
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        October 23, 2021 10:28am
      - 7kiwi11
        
        Especially when a high proportion of that 10% is maori
        
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        October 23, 2021 10:46am
      - Bridgenag
        
        Why would anyone go and get a covid test unless they wanted a free holiday on us or their employer
        
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        October 23, 2021 1:08pm
    - Surely Knott
      
      Plenty of people, even those who’ve had one or even two jabs, realise that the scapegoating, medical coercion, control and the overriding of our bill of rights is deeply wrong. The unvaccinated are the minority but they have formed strong supportive networks. They may be wrong , time will tell, but they are a caring and supportive groups. They may have to reflect on their medical choices at the end of this, but they wont have to reflect on their conscience and the deeply hateful comments and division of society that he government and supporters have created.
      
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      October 23, 2021 9:11am
      - DeepBlue
        
        I am vaccinated because I have major health risks. I respect everyone’s decision to not get vaxed, as these vaccinations are just not good enough to work as a reliable long-term mass public health measure. Time is proving this be true.
        
        I would prefer people to not make this whole discussion about vaxed/unvaxed as this just promotes Jacinda’s narrative. We should call ourselves ‘Freedom Fighters’ instead.
        
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        October 23, 2021 9:58am
      - Man Among the Ruins
        
        There cannot possibly be consent if it is effectively impossible to decline, so this is, by definition, attempted de facto forced vaccination.
        
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        October 23, 2021 12:25pm
    - Diogenes
      
      The unvaccinated are going to become objects of hatred. History provides plenty of examples of what happens to people who are cast into that category. Unless somehow we suddenly rediscover some humanity/empathy, we are in for a very disturbing future.
      
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      October 23, 2021 9:40am
      - Man Among the Ruins
        
        The more I reflect on it, the more I am OK with the prospect of being ostracised and shunned by such a gormless, braindead bunch of obedient slaves. It’s quite easy to feel morally superior.
        
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        October 23, 2021 12:27pm
    - Hard Cheese
      
      The Government may have no Plan B, but I certainly do. It’s pretty clear we’re being herded onto a mouse wheel of boosters at the thin end of the soft totalitarian wedge. If this society doesn’t permit basic freedom of choice, I’ll go live in another society that does.
      
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      October 23, 2021 9:45am
      - Sacha
        
        You are lucky to the choice – it’s hard cheese for the rest of us who don’t.
        
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        October 23, 2021 8:09pm
    - Bluegrass
      
      …and monitored by the police – Ausweiss, bitte!
      
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      October 23, 2021 3:07pm
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    The media are now simply mouthpieces for the power structure. It is no longer part of their role to ask tricky questions.
    
    Example: look at the unofficial vaccine stop-work at Southwest Airlines: an open secret at the time, but universally presented as merely huge disruptions due to “bad weather,” it has since become clear – now that the union has negotiated allowances for vaccine exemptions – that they all knowingly and willingly covered-up the vaccine protest. They all colluded to lie, in other words, because they are there to perpetuate the lie that everyone accepts the forced vaccinations. If it became widely known that protests and resistance was afoot, this would have the effect of undermining the marketing scheme. New Zealand media will similarly collude to stay on script and for the same reasons.
    
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    October 23, 2021 8:23am
    - sooty
      
      Their role changed when they took the money!
      The went from independent to dependency!
      Bought and paid for fifth columist!
      
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      October 23, 2021 10:09am
  - Paulus
    
    If the media asked the correct and obvious answers they would be defunded by her.
    
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    October 23, 2021 10:16am
- PhilBest
  
  But buried in the analysis of “waning effectiveness” of the vaccines, is any “control” for the subjects behavior and the environments they spend time in. The waning effectiveness might be less of a factor, and if someone freshly double vaxxed spent too long in a high risk environment, the result might have been interpreted as all about “waning vaccine effectiveness” had they not done so until a few months later.
  
  It is obvious that mass increases in high-risk behavior coincides with governments “easing restrictions as enough people are vaccinated”.
  
  No-one who matters is even trying to analyse the data properly; and this fundamental error even bedevils the vaccine manufacturers own trials. I see no evidence that these vaccines were proved to protect against maximum exposure, because they were never trialed with “exposure” quantified in any way.
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:13am
- covfefe
  
  Quite right – and we have a population of vaccine hesitant people (my cleaner, massage therapist, one medical colleague, and beauty therapist) who get the distinct impression that they are being lied to – and they are. No mention of waning immunity or myocarditis in young men (predominately). Denying the limitations of the vaccine/s not the answer.
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:13am
  - bronny1
    
    That is my primary reason for not being vaxxed (along with being 45 and healthy) – I know they are lying to us and every example I collect I just go a bit further away from ever having the vax.
    
    Bllomfields red to ivermectin as a horse drench was one such moment. He of all people knows it’s one of the most important drugs ever for humans and while it may not cure covid, the fact he has blatantly provided misinformation means I now trust nothing he says.
    
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    October 23, 2021 8:37am
    - CSadler
      
      Yep – a truism:
      
      Corrupt people, the evil, the mad, the liars do not wake up one day and go “ ya know what, from today I am going to play it straight”
      
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      October 23, 2021 9:39am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    Anyone who doesn’t understand by now that we are being lied to, by commission and omission, will probably never see it.
    
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    October 23, 2021 8:39am
- kowtow
  
  Exodus 5 .1
  
  Moses to pharaoh.
  
  ‘Let my people go.’
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:19am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Heh. Last night I asked my kids what movie they’d like to watch. Given the day’s news and the rather grim future it foretold, I suggested something apocalyptic like Deep Impact and they agreed but then decided on one I’d never seen, The Prince of Egypt – and precisely for the reason you just cited.
    
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    October 23, 2021 9:44am
  - rangitoto
    
    I recall from that story that the Pharoah was willing to let them go but the god or godess hardened the Pharoah’s heart.
    
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    October 23, 2021 2:19pm
- Rodney Hide
  
  Hi Benedict
  
  I wonder if we make the same mistake over and over. Climate change is not about temperature. Banning plastic bags isn’t about dolphins. Gun control is not about stopping murder. Welfare is not about welfare. And so on. We argue the data and results. But always those in power further their power. Their argument only need sound plausible. The authority of power does the rest. Covid is achieving what climate change hoped. But quicker.
  
  It’s only a hypothesis. Not a conspiracy but it seems power sucks up more power always and everywhere and never surrenders it. And for superficially appealing reasons that aren’t t true.
  
  Sincerely
  
  Rodney
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:21am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yes good points Rodney. I was thinking about the climate change analogy. Jacinda has turned climate change in New Zealand into a cult. And she is turning covid vaccines into a cult.
    
    A colleague shocked me yesterday. He is normally rational. After the announcements he said along the lines of ‘This is fantastic. The government is going to stop the unvaccinated from going to any venues. Good job. They should all be made to stay at home.’
    
    This hysteria is squarely down to Jacinda. History has shown that it is possible to persuade people that a minority is dangerous and should be punished. Rwanda in 1994 is the best contemporary example.
    
    I am not suggesting that the unvaccinated are going to be subject to violence. But they are in for some very very hard times to an extent that I did not forsee even a week ago.
    
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    October 23, 2021 8:33am
    - PhilBest
      
      One question is to what extent or proportion are vaxxed people who nonetheless have principles, will stick up for the unvaxxed.
      
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      October 23, 2021 8:48am
    - Tomtoddy
      
      There are a growing number of stories of ugly divisions emerging driven by the fear generated by Ardern and her tame media.
      
      A perosn I know well has chosen not to get vaccinated at this point – she has a incurable breathing problem – and a close friend of hers has banned her calling or going out with her. Her sister-in-law has said stay away. She cannot go to work, cannot get her hair done, get her nails done, go to a dentist, eat out.
      
      Families and friends are being forced apart. It is despicable.
      
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      October 23, 2021 9:00am
      - Ra Henare
        
        There is a solution to your friends dilemma.
        Lie!!!
        Tell everyone you got the jabs.
        
        Even an imbecile will know that vax passports will be available for those with money!
        
        Look at all the vax passport countries and tell me that counterfeit passports are not being used.
        
        Just waiting for the vax passport to come out here and then see how long it will take hackers to produce a working result(even tho you might not have been jabbed)
        
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        October 23, 2021 10:16am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      It’s up to everyone to protect the rights of us all to choose what we put in our bodies. Those that call for sanctions on those that choose not to be vaccinated are complicit in tyranny.
      
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      October 23, 2021 9:30am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      We too can fight back.
      
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      October 23, 2021 9:44am
    - rouppe
      
      So a guy I know just came back from the South Island.
      
      When walking into cafes etc for dinner they’d look up and say “we don’t bother with masks here”.
      
      I’m hoping that the initial embracing of covid proof will just wane because no one cares. They might SAY they’re checking, but just don’t bother.
      
      I’ll also be seeking out places that don’t require vaccination proof (despite being vaccinated) and taking my business there in preference to the others.
      
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      October 23, 2021 10:05am
    - Paulus
      
      Ardernism is a Cult remember.
      
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      October 23, 2021 10:17am
    - oldfella
      
      Benedict: and what if the unvaccinated turn out to be predominantly Maori (as well might happen, for whatever reason)?
      How will Cindy’s control her Maori caucus if the ‘special people’ suddenly become the subject of hateful rhetoric from the rest of the team of five million?
      
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      October 23, 2021 10:51am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Don’t know – but it could be fun to watch.
        
        If you are a young Maori person, especially if you live outside the larger centres, what is going to make you get vaccinated? I don’t see many Maori in the bars and other venues I go to. Why will they care? The only way to get Maori vaccination rates to 90 percent will be to bribe them with huge amounts of money or cut off benefits.
        
        That we are being told it is because of ‘racism’ is such bullshit.
        
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        October 23, 2021 1:44pm
      - Paulus
        
        Should an unvaccinated Maori particularly die it will be part of what is called Natural Selection, and one less Maori.
        
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        October 23, 2021 2:05pm
  - Bluegrass
    
    @ Rodney H …with a growing bureaucracy of clerks, teams, team leaders, vax champions etc to administer the inevitable ever-increasing forms and permits and regulations and fines to be issued and enforced.
    
    The taxpayer sheep being shorn again.
    
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    October 23, 2021 3:17pm
- ecco
  
  So with waning immunity, what is your solution then? Stop the vaccine program and open up?
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:01am
  - alloytoo
    
    open up before the existing vaccinations are worthless.
    
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    October 23, 2021 11:37am
  - krazykiwi
    
    My solution would be to: –
    
    1) Quit the myopic narrative of ‘vaccinate and prevent infections via state interventions’
    
    2) Start a new narrative acknowledging the epidemiological truth that every NZer will be exposed to the SARS-CoV-2 virus in the next couple of years.
    
    3) Recognising the truth in 2, be honest about all prevention and treatment options and recognise that the best response is one that is underpinned by personal agency.
    
    4) Ditch bio-fascism before it metastasizes into a truly ugly blight on this generation’s curation of our children’s futures.
    
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    October 23, 2021 2:55pm
  - -D
    
    No….keep vaccinating as many as possible but urgently implement early treatment with antivirals (yes there are several but Ivermectin seems best) and simple (cheap) immune system supplements which are well proven internationally.
    
    Ashley Bloomfield/Jacinda are doing a VERY bad thing with their “only vaccines in the toolbox” routine.
    
    They are going to have to live with this.
    
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    October 23, 2021 6:03pm
- Simon
  
  It was probably pointed out yesterday. But no way CMDHB, south Auckland reaches 90%.
  
  Phil Goff said the vaxx certificate was an attempt to force everyone to get vaxxed. That’s the purpose of the certification.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:52am
- ClanMcleod
  
  The real world data is showing that it doesn’t prevent illness and death, maybe in the first couple of months, but not overall.
  
  https://odysee.com/@alltheworldsastage:0/Majority-of-Elderly-Cases-In-UK-England-Were-Fully-Covid-19-Vaccinated-Alex-Berenson-Tells-Joe-Rogan:9
  
  This is a medical experiment. We’re all lab rats, I’m staying in the control group for now. At 99.85% survival rate I don’t mind volunteering.
  BTW don’t smear the source. I haven’t been interested in that tactic for many years. Deal with the information presented if you disagree.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:39am
- ABS4EVA
  
  Western Science is based on Cause and Effect.
  You Reap will reap what you Sow. Is a Basic Tenant of Christian Scientific and ethical Doctrine.
  Also Ethics is a large part of Christian Tradition
  So is Science and the discussion of this is basically censored as being invalid to the discussion on Life Science and Health.
  
  We are seeing the birth of the Monster Baby of Socialist Science Medicine without ethics or consent. (Incredibly Dangerous)
  
  Until we start discussing best and alternative approaches this new approach has the potential to not end well.
  
  Christians are not anti Science they are Pro Science with the Ethical standard to
  DO NO HARM and provide the most Benefit
  to all people is VALID.
  
  Try and Discuss anything or anything “Ethical”
  with a Christian basis and you will be censored
  shouted down or abused.
  
  The Higher we set the ethical Standards.
  The Higher we will set our Scientific Standards.
  Then we realise it is our responsibility to participate in the demand for better medicines.
  
  This is not a criticism of what we have.
  
  But we must very quickly get better approaches
  to Pandemics and disease and implement them.
  
  Even at 100% Vax of the entire population
  this Crisis is NOT OVER
  
  We need to discuss what next and we had
  better get some better medicine or VAX
  ready that can be developed fast for the next
  strains or the “Next Disease”
  
  Try and Discuss this with the Current Marxist Regime who are hell bent on making
  THINKING at all ILLEGAL.
  
  or Heaven Help us discussing that
  There are better or alternative approaches.
  that might work of work even better and it is our
  responsibility to fund trial and implement
  
  FASTER
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:15am
- bennerg
  
  Benedict I agree with almost of what you say, except one point I’ve been trying to get a definitive answer for, and no-one seems to be able to provide the answer.
  
  The claim that the mRNA vaccines actually provide “Protection against serious illness and death”
  
  I’ve tried to find published research of a double blind, peer reviewed research project to prove this assertion. To date there appears to be none. The claim seems to come out of the ether, and no-one is challenging it.
  
  Just quoting the published figures of “hospitalisation” and “deaths” in some countries that seems to support the assertion is meaningless, because of the so many variables involved.
  
  To prove this assertion you need matched participants within a control group, and a large enough number to even out the variables found in individual responses. And the control group needs to be willing to be infected.
  
  At the moment all I hear are crickets.
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:29am
mikenmildagain

Happy Mole Day!
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October 23, 2021 8:00am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Damn lucky that I don’t have any Moles in my gardens today
  https://nudegardeningday.co.nz/
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:05am
- hookerphil
  
  Happy Naked Gardening Day.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:07am
- Ed Snack
  
  Is that the animal or the sauce ?
  
  And I think we missed yesterday’s International Day for Pronouns”.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:39am
PhilBest

What the global cabal of “health” officials are ignoring – especially NZ’s:

CFNU research summary on COVID-19 – Updated July 23, 2021
https://nursesunions.ca/cfnu-research-summary-on-covid-19/
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October 23, 2021 8:01am
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s a good review of the regimes control viewpoints but fails to cover the underlying planning.
  
  How do we know that different variant jabs have not been tested without the jabbers being aware?
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:52am
- Ed Snack
  
  That CFNU summary seems a bit dated, and also possibly misleading.
  
  The transmission of Covid is almost entirely from aerosol droplets and the concentration in the air of these droplets is a critical factor. Transmission via larger droplets is negligible in most circumstances, and transmission via droplet infected surfaces is also negligible.
  
  Aerosol production does not need anything other than breathing to occur, but obviously can be magnified by activities such as singing and talking, especially loud talking, the volume of air matters.
  
  And despite their reference to Dr Fauci and asymptomatic carriers, there is little evidence that asymptomatic people carry and disperse significant amounts of the virus. Latest research seems to indicate that asymptomatic people rarely shed significant virus though there may be exceptions.
  
  This explains why Covid is almost exclusively transmitted indoors and in relatively poorly ventilated spaces, and most especially in crowded indoors settings with significant amounts of loud conversation and/or singing involved. Also why standard cloth or paper masks are essentially totally ineffective in controlling infection, aerosols simply pass by the masks both in and out. Masks may catch larger particles, but those are unimportant in general. Similarly, although social isolation may assist, in an environment like a house, unless very well ventilated, viral aerosols will just build up in the air over time, so those isolating at home frequently infect their fellow house dwellers even if physically separated.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:50am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    The much touted, vax passport reliant, Rhythm and Vines event pushed heavily by Ardern should make things interesting then…….especially as she admits vaccination prevents neither infection nor transmission. Oh what a tangled web we weave.
    
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    October 24, 2021 12:42am
Warren

I though that Labour would have learnt with their experiences over law reforms passed by Geoffrey Palmer, but it appears they have not with the speed and the need for Andrew Little to tear our Health sector apart in a time that is dominated by Covid-19.
Just like Geoffrey Palmer we will have to revisit laws that have been passed in haste because they won’t be fit for purpose and will take years to change.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/10/22/public-consultation-opens-for-mental-health-act-reform/
Andrew Little is a failure and you only have to look back at his past to see ,failed the union movement with largest loss of membership in the Unions history 3 attempts to become a constitutional MP and failed miserably, became Leader of the.Labour Party and couldn’t poll above 30% and that’s being kind , but again a failure, and again most of what he has done in portfolio’s he has been trusted with are still unworkable.
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October 23, 2021 8:05am
- gravedodger
  
  @ Warren plus his involvement as the leader of the union members who perished at Pike River mine, who only a short time before the mine blew insisted it was “safe”.
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:40am
- DeepBlue
  
  Minister Little has honed onto a handful of DHBs who are letting Maori down. The corollary is the majority have done OK or even well by working with their communities. I believe this alone proves that well connected DHBs have a place in health and Little is about to destroy the majority for a few with his health reforms, once again.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:09am
- Paulus
  
  But she and the Unions still love him.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:18am
Greg Ettridge

When you pre order around 5 jabs per person for just one year, you are not thinking the cure is been a really successful outcome, or you just have money to burn.
Then the $750 a dose pills to top on, what can possibly go wrong.
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October 23, 2021 8:07am
- sooty
  
  5 jabs per person in the first year?
  2 jabs plus booster = 3, other two wastage?
  Then 2 jabs per year for life.
  Can you take another kind of jab ever?
  Can you mix and mingle jabs ever?
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:22am
RockyJ

Setting a target of 90% vaxxed for all DHB’s before we move down levels is the classic divide and rule management technique. The hope is that the vaxxed will encourage the unvaxxed but the result is that it causes resentment and pits people against each other. David Seymour is right to say we are being held hostage by our laziest citizens. Maori in particular will be targeted for abuse.
Do you remember when the teacher kept the whole class in because Johnny was being naughty? The outcome was that Johnny was severely picked on in playtime. It still hurts.
The movie “Full Metal Jacket” had an example of this.
It is a most despicable management tool. Not bad for “the team of five million”.
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October 23, 2021 8:07am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  No, Seymour is wrong to say we are being held hostage by our laziest citizens. My reluctance has nothing to do with laziness, and everything to do with a rational assessment and seeing where this is all heading.
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:37am
- Fletch
  
  Yup, so much for “being kind”. She is pulling out the worst sort of manipulation tactics. This is not what a real leader does.
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:59am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    She is no longer Leader but a WEF stooge.
    
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    October 23, 2021 9:54am
- rouppe
  
  National Socialism
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:07am
  - RockyJ
    
    Dead right, rouppe. People say Jacinda is a communist but that is wrong. She is a Nazi. Communists believed in state control and the dictatorship of the proletariat. Nazis believe in state control and the dictatorship of a race.
    That is where NZ is heading. Race war is way more deadly than class war.
    
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    October 23, 2021 1:53pm
Frank the tank

Notice the lack of criticism this morning. There has been instructions from high above to the feckless. The Ferald has rolled out Dopey Derek and the others aren’t far behind.

It’s about time for mass insurrection – if every hairdresser, retail shop and bar opened they could do nothing. Wokecoster has got no balls, the front line are mostly ignoring non compliance and the case numbers will continue to increase regardless.

A waggly finger, head tilt and some incoherent babbling is all she could do. A narcissist if ever I saw one.

Oh and did you want to go to the War Memorial museum or Auckland Zoo for your Christmas holiday?

Team of 5 million my arse.
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October 23, 2021 8:11am
- Souvlaki
  
  Agree..let’s rise up!
  ENOUGH!
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:51am
  - Tomtoddy
    
    I’m with you. Time to fight back.
    
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    October 23, 2021 9:05am
- ecco
  
  I noticed that as well. It just shows how in control of the media Ardern is, due to her media bribe fund Where are the articles by Joyce and HDPA?
  
  Also it was a deliberate ploy to make the idiotic traffic light scheme announcement on the Friday of Labour weekend to shut down talkback radio and any discussion and criticism of Ardern and co. I’m guessing they will make more such announcements on Fridays.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:06am
- lifesgood
  
  It’s clear lockdowns don’t work. You only have to look at Victoria to see that. They have had a horrendous long lockdown yet their numbers have just kept rising. At last they have seen the light but our incredibly incompetent and thoroughly ill prepared govt can’t see the same light.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:07am
  - ecco
    
    It was really sad to see on the news last night that piece on the Victoria reopening and see a whole street of vacant retail premises. That is going to Auckland as well by early next year. I guess Ardern will wheel out some paid for economists to make statements like ‘some businesses had to go bust’.
    
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    October 23, 2021 10:01am
    - Bridgenag
      
      Our left wing worker said that it was only shops and restaurants [that he didn’t frequent] in trouble so all was OK
      
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      October 23, 2021 1:24pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Wokecoster has himself a lot to answer for. Heil
  Civil unrest may be hard to avoid.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:58am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    That “Heil” was a keyboard insertion. However I have decided to leave it.
    
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    October 23, 2021 10:01am
    - septic skeptic
      
      Maybe your device has become self aware!
      
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      October 23, 2021 10:33am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Maybe, I sure didn’t knowingly type it.
        
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        October 23, 2021 5:28pm
Benedict Yu

Professional mountain bike athlete who now has serious heart disease after the COVID vaccine. He was accused of being psychotic.

https://youtu.be/H7inaTiDKaU

What is interesting is that as soon as he was vaccinated, he experienced a metallic taste in his mouth. This has been reported previously in people that went on to experience serious heart problems.

Authorities refuse to investigate the hypothesis that these heart injuries are caused by the inadvertent injection of the vaccine into a blood vessel rather than the deltoid muscle. This can be avoided by correct injection technique, drawing back on the syringe to check that the needle is not in a blood vessel. “Aspiration”.

Aspiration is not routinely practiced any longer in the UK, USA, and Australia. The rationale is that hitting a blood vessel is so rare it is not worth doing. It seems to happen in about 1 in 10,000 injections. But if you are injecting billions of people that is a lot of injured or dead people.

No authorities will even discuss this issue. Because lawsuits. The vaccine manufacturers warn “Do not inject into a blood vessel”. If you the vaccine administrator does not aspirate, how do they know?
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October 23, 2021 8:12am
- PhilBest
  
  This thinking is the right kind of curiosity.
  
  I say there is another possibility connected to an institutional “fail” on the part of mainstream western medicine. That is, substances DO “flow” around the body in the fluids that exist in the “interstitial” spaces; transfer of substances around the body is NOT exclusive to “vessels”.
  
  The subject of freedom of flow of these fluids, versus stagnation and toxicity, has massive explanatory power for a wide range of health differences between people. The people riddled with chronic health conditions might be that way because of lack of such flow. Ultra healthy and fit people may have been blessed with excellent flow as a natural characteristic; or else they have kept it at good levels with Yoga, gymnastics, etc.
  
  This is something I have known about for years, and it is perfectly consistent with research I am aware of, that something injected into the upper arm might end up all over the body even if it doesn’t go into a blood vessel. Google “the Interstitium” if you want to find the best research on the subject.
  
  Vaccine harm may be just another consequence of mainstream western medicine having a blind spot on this. Chinese medicine has always been much clearer on the subject, a lot of the massage for example, aims at squeezing the fluids around the body and releasing blockages. There are health benefits to having good interstitial fluid flows, but a downside obviously could be that an injected medical treatment goes places it wasn’t intended to.
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:21am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yeah I’m sceptical about that. I have tried Chinese medicine and acupuncture for chronic pain without success.
    
    A more plausible explanation is that young male athletes have better developed blood supply to their deltoid muscles.
    
    But unless authorities take this issue seriously we will never know.
    
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    October 23, 2021 9:07am
    - PhilBest
      
      Have you tried a good Chi Gong massage practitioner? Acupuncture and herbals don’t move the interstitial fluids around.
      
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      October 23, 2021 4:33pm
    - Sacha
      
      It is also known that some young males are more susceptible to Myocarditis. This is why they are advised (or used to be – maybe it’s gone out of fashion, like aspirating for IM injections) not to resume full physical training too soon after having had even a mild chest infection.
      
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      October 23, 2021 8:35pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  It is also notable that people with lowest body fat (young men, athletes, perhaps pre-pubecent girls and boys too) appear most susceptible to heart damage – fat appears to temper the damage.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:26am
  - PhilBest
    
    A fascinating point worth considering.
    
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    October 23, 2021 4:34pm
Lee C

All political parties should be made to issue a declaration or provide an itemised account of their dealings, financial or otherwise, with pharmaceutical industries or their representatives.

T ensure no conflict of interest in the name of ‘openness and transparency’.
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October 23, 2021 8:13am
- bennerg
  
  Lee, in this case I do not think this is the issue.
  
  When asked about what determines success in politics, former UK PM Harold McMillan answered “events my dear boy, events“.
  
  Jacinda Ardern and her party are making as much of the opportunity they have had with the evens of a shooting, and now this pandemic.
  
  It appears to me that their handling of the “pandemic” may not be the idiotic response we think it is. What they are doing is what I have called the magician’s trick, getting us all focusing on the virus, raising the fear and panic, so we all get so obsessed with this and our “freedoms”. All the while they are bringing in major legislation that has not been announced at an election:
  
  * 3 Waters,
  * Separate Maori health,
  * He Puapua,
  * Remove 3 Strikes etc.
  
  They realise that they can only do this while they have a simple majority, as they will not have that, or even be the party in power, come the next election.
  
  So the rush is on to pass this massive amount of legislation, and the only way to do this is:
  
  * raise panic and fear using the possible threat of the pandemic
  * control the media (through their payment)
  * create dependency on welfare payments to individuals and businesses
  * neutralise the opposition
  
  Jacinda is the master illusionist – you have to give her that – she has learned well in her communications degree from the ultimate masters such as Goebbels etc.
  
  But it is all a trick. This pandemic is not Ebola or Marburg. The sort of real pandemic we saw immortalised in the movies such as “Outbreak” and “Pandemic”, where people were dropping dead in the streets. We are dealing with a virus with a viral load in the same order of magnitude as a bad flu. We know who the vulnerable are, we know there are existing drugs that deal to it, and we know that life should be back to normal now.
  
  But it suits the political ideologues in the Beehive to keep milking this for the most they can. And they are, and they will continue to do so, if we let them.
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:54am
Benedict Yu

“Epidemiologist and senior researcher in public health at Otago University Dr Amanda Kvalsvig said the traffic light system had not been designed to uphold Te Tiriti O Waitangi.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126763887/new-covid19-plan-unethical-and-could-cause-irreparable-harm-experts-say

Good grief. I see Stuff has given free reign this morning to its on call “experts”.
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October 23, 2021 8:14am
- Frank the tank
  
  By Wellington reporters only. It’s like Auckland is “beyond the wall” by all the Wellington elite and our views don’t matter
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:26am
- kaas
  
  Can non-Maori make a treaty claim against our treaty partners for not upholding their end of the partnership by not getting vaxxed and holding up our freedom day?…
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:34am
  - alloytoo
    
    Can non Maori make a treaty claim at all?
    
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    October 23, 2021 11:56am
- Stu2
  
  We should be going when NZ reaches 90%. I think we will get there and the state of the ICUs makes me nervous about the 80% oz is using.
  
  But NOT 90% in every DHB, and certainly not in every ethnicity and/or age band. Sure, keep prodding the hesitant but don’t get held to ransom.
  
  Nanny state rampant. Shame about the economy.
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:52am
  - septic skeptic
    
    I reckon the best way to get to 90% everywhere and in almost all demographics is to announce full opening on 1 December. Still time to start the Vax program and reach full immunity by then, but you have to get your skates on!
    
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    October 23, 2021 10:37am
  - Over40SingleMan
    
    Agreed! Tell ’em they’re dream’n.
    The narrative that’s cheered on by a compliant media is we will reach this mythical 90% figure before Xmas.
    This is clearly never going to happen!
    Even Ardern has admitted that 5% of first vaxes never return for the second jab. It would appear to me that there is a well over 10% of the eligible population that are either too lazy to turn up for the first jab or are stoically hesitant for a range of reasons.
    Going into the New Year there will clearly be more DHBs well below the 90% than not.
    The 90% target is destined to be yet fail, however the spin will deflect blame from the nice kind anxious PM.
    
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    October 23, 2021 2:36pm
- Taieri
  
  said the traffic light system had not been designed to uphold Te Tiriti O Waitangi
  —————–
  
  Was it supposed to do so? What rock had these cretins been hiding under before they discovered an audience?
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:24am
- KevO'Brien
  
  How could it uphold any treaty of 1840?
  Let the legal beagles out.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:05am
mikenmildagain

Sorry to rain on your parade, but I’m sure you meant free ‘rein’, rather than ‘reign’.
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October 23, 2021 8:18am
- CJames
  
  That may not be a mistake. Many of the “experts” see themselves as the rulemakers which politicians have to follow to get the seal of approval. So in those circumstances, reign is appropriate.
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:37am
  - kowtow
    
    Yep , Ardern reigns over us and the vast majority are happy to be reined in .
    
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    October 23, 2021 8:46am
    - Taieri
      
      the vast majority are happy to be reined in
      ——————
      
      Forgetting that the PM’s role is not to RULE over us but to MANAGE the country on OUR behalf…
      
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      October 23, 2021 10:56am
      - Nickc2
        
        I agree with your sentiment, but oh, how the times have changed. Thanks Winston, you gave them three years to plan their tyranny before you were dumped and now, look at what you’ve created.
        
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        October 23, 2021 1:14pm
  - MCos
    
    You can ask him, he’s right here.
    
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    October 23, 2021 8:53am
  - jgw739
    
    A fairly forgivable Freudian slip I imagine, brought about by some of our dear leaders attributes. And no, I am not referring to her abuse of unbridled power or her well shod feet.
    
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    October 23, 2021 11:10pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Gee thanks for that. ?
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:41am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Gonna be one of ‘those’ days. Mike has to make up for his absence yesterday. Ignore him
    
    19 6
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    October 23, 2021 8:52am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Oh Steve, why do you write such hurtful things? We’re mates, aren’t we?
      
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      October 23, 2021 9:26am
- Stellaboxer
  
  I bet you’re fun at a dinner party milky
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:36am
Frank the tank

Alec Baldwin. What karma. Don’t you love it when the smug get their comeuppance.
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October 23, 2021 8:23am
- Vory v zakone
  
  The shot heard around the world ?
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:50am
I remember when

Number of hospitaliations and admissions to ICU due to covid-19, by age group, 1 January to 1 August, 2021, Australia.
Age 0-9: Cases 530, % Hospitalised 2.5%, ICU 0%.
Age 10-19: Cases 682, % Hospitalised 2.9%, ICU 0.6%.
Since then there has been 1 death in the 10-19 age group. The reports suggest there were a number of contributing factors.
The co-mordidity factor is unfortunately too often used as a fear factor.
Unfortunately, their lives are a constant worry about the numerous potential dangers to their health.
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October 23, 2021 8:24am
Fletch

Reposting from yesterday as it was not released from moderation until late last night. The govt’s vaccination mandate that ALL nurses be vaccinated whether they work with patients or not!

Mandatory COVID-19 Vaccination Order

The formal Order making COVID-19 vaccination compulsory for ‘high risk’ workers in the health and disability sectors has been passed. This Order comes into effect on Monday 25 October at 11:59pm.

The Government has now decided that this Order should apply to all practitioners that are regulated under the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Act 2003. This means that every nurse in Aotearoa New Zealand who wishes to continue practising, regardless of where they work, must:
· receive their first vaccine dose by 30 October 2021; and
· be fully vaccinated by 1 December 2021.

This includes nurses who do not physically interact with patients, such as those working in telehealth, and those working in non-clinical roles such as nursing research and education, policy and professional advice, or management.

https://www.nursingcouncil.org.nz/Public/News_Media/NCNZ/News-section/news-item/2021/10/Mandatory_Vaccination_Order_for_Nurses.aspx

Yep, this applies to pretty much every nurse, whether they are employed by a DHB, self employed, etc

The Order applies whether or not you are working in the public health system, a for-profit company, or a charity or other non-government organisation. It also applies if you are self-employed.

The Order covers all regulated health practitioners no matter what setting they work in. The Ministry of Health has confirmed that this includes non-clinical roles and areas such as nursing management, nursing policy and professional advice, and research.

Again, this is actual authoritarian stuff
This govt is WAYY out over its skis.
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October 23, 2021 8:29am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Denial of free speech rights too:
  As a regulator we respect an individual’s right to have their own opinions, but it is the Council’s view that there is no place for anti-vaccination messages in professional health practice, nor any promotion of anti- vaccination claims including on social media and advertising by health practitioners.
  https://www.nursingcouncil.org.nz/NCNZ/News-section/news-item/2021/5/Guidance_statement_COVID-19_vaccine_and_your_professional_responsibility.aspx
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:13am
- septic skeptic
  
  According to my daughter in law all the nurses she works with are double vaxxed and have been for ages.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:40am
  - SilverSurfer
    
    My cousin is an ICU nurse in the Waikato she quit because of the mandate 4 days later she had a phone call begging her to go back to work “unvacced” because thet are terribly short staffed,
    I think you will find thats not going to be the only story you hear about this kind of thing.
    
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    October 23, 2021 12:59pm
- rjay
  
  The DHBs have from yesterday until Nov 1 to get all health care workers vaccinated. In that time they also need to redesign their HR policies to cope with resignations and job reassignments. They also need to rejig any affected rosters.
  I predict they will struggle.
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:01am
I remember when

Grazing licence back up for grabs:
Once again reality comes back to bite.
A grazing licence may be necessary for 208 hectares of Queen Elizabeth Park, in an area set aside for peatland restoration.
A delay before further restoration work can get underway leasves the land, which has been without stock for 18 months, in danger of becoming overgrown and a fire risk.
If the Greater Wellington Regional Council choose this option the licence would be for 3 years.
Why does virtue signalling always result in action before consideration of all the likely outcomes.
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October 23, 2021 8:32am
In Vino Veritas

Alec Baldwin, just another uber progressive Hollywood actor, accidentally shoots and kills a person on set, and wounds another.
It’s terrifically sad. But for Baldwin, karma is a bitch. This is the guy that in 2017, joined in the “police are bad” movement, and managed to tweet with a picture of a policeman pointing a gun a someone, “I wonder what it is like to wrongfully kill someone?”
Well Alec, you can now get down off your high horse and rejoin the rest of the world.
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October 23, 2021 8:32am
- dime
  
  Yeah the trump curse strikes again.
  
  Arec baldwryn is a piece of shit. Always has been.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:24am
- rouppe
  
  That’s a bit harsh.
  
  He didn’t consider “wrongfully killing someone”, he accidentally killed someone because a tool of his trade did not operate as intended.
  
  It’s like saying that ski bus driver whose brakes failed intended to kill that young girl. Clearly not the case.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:19am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Sorry rouppe, I didn’t say he was “considering”, I said that in a tweet, with a picture of a police officer pointing a weapon at another person “I wonder what it’s like to wrongfully kill someone?”. This when he was just another Hollywood moron on an anti-police bender, because that was the cool Hollywood thing to do.
    The fact of the matter is, he pointed a weapon (accidentally or not) at someone and pulled the trigger (accidentally or not), and anyone who owns a gun knows that this is rule #1 not to do. It may have been an accident, but if it was Tucker Carlson for instance, he would have been the FIRST to pile in an slag him and demand gun control. As I say, karma is a total bitch, and Alec Baldwin has just had the karma envelope arrive in spades.
    
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    October 23, 2021 1:15pm
- mawm
  
  What kind of idiot doesn’t know to always check a firearm (gun) handed to you to see if it is safe – even if the person handing it to you tells you it is. Guns 101.
  
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  October 23, 2021 12:50pm
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Yep mawm, (1) treat every firearm as loaded: check breach, check mag, (2) Always point weapon in safe direction, ie: never ever point weapon at anyone unless you intend to dispatch them, (3) Don’t load the fucking thing until you are ready to fire. Doh.
    
    Given Baldwin hates the NRA, there’s a decent chance he’s never received any training with firearms. And here he is, playing with them. Also as a matter of interest, there was a stoush with unionised employees on the set, who had walked off and been replaced with non-unionised. So boy, there will be a fair old to-do in court over this one.
    
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    October 23, 2021 1:21pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Yep, it looks like Alec Baldwin is in big trouble, and is now engaged in a desperate attempt to spin his way out of jail time. See https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/celebrities/300436965/alec-balwin-didnt-know-his-prop-gun-was-loaded-with-live-rounds-his-heart-is-broken-after-fatal-shooting.
      
      There is nothing I’ve seen so far to suggest that rouppe’s assertion, that “he accidentally killed someone because a tool of his trade did not operate as intended”, was the case.
      
      It could well be that a charge of Murder Three is in Baldwin’s immediate future.
      
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      October 23, 2021 3:55pm
      - rouppe
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/alec-baldwin-shooting-24-year-old-gun-worker-hannah-gutierrez-wasnt-sure-if-she-was-ready-for-role/A3EDAWHPIC7ZSCNFQ4I6GE5SNQ/
        
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        October 24, 2021 11:30am
  - Vory v zakone
    
    Anti-gun Alec Baldwin has officially killed more people with a gun than 99.999% of gun owners.
    
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    October 23, 2021 4:26pm
TS Child

I’m listening to Revisionist History by Malcolm Gladwell. The July 2,2020 episode: The Powerball revolution, discusses selecting politicians by random – everyone interested puts their name down, then they essentially draw straws. Simple. Cheap. Quick. Great for diversity. Avoids predicting for charmers who have little experience (might still get them of course, bc selection is random). It would predict on the advisors being chosen on merit in their fields, but I think this has some potential.. What do you think?
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October 23, 2021 8:36am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Random selection of citizens as for jury service would be my choice, with some additional qualifications and some ability to refuse to serve.
  That podcast very very good, btw, though I haven’t got to that episode yet.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:30am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    So you evidently do not support refusal of forced vaccination, but you do support refusal of jury service. Wouldn’t those who do their jury service be in greater danger if it was easier for some others to refuse their jury service? Probably not.
    
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    October 23, 2021 10:04am
  - rouppe
    
    Random? Pfft.
    
    There was a period of about 5 years where I was getting called at last once a year. After about the seventh one I wrote to MoJ and asked why I was getting picked so often when those around me had never once been called?
    
    Haven’t had one since.
    
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    October 23, 2021 10:25am
Stu2

I was looking at posts to either a Herald to Stuff story yesterday. It was obvious that a lot of the punters have no idea that 90% is going to be either a protracted struggle or impossible in some DHBs.

Which on yesterday’s settings may leave most of the north island at level 2 permanently.
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October 23, 2021 8:39am
- ecco
  
  And Auckland on level 3 permanently. Some people think Auckland has to reach 90% overall, not by each individual DHB. They haven’t read Ardern’s fine print.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:32am
- Opie
  
  Suits me just fine. Can do everything I need to at level 2 and no ridiculous vaccine restrictions.
  
  Level 2 (on a local level) is actually less restrictive than most of that stupid womans traffic light balls up.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:08am
JibberJabber

Walls are bad, ok?

https://nypost.com/2021/10/22/dhs-455k-for-security-fencing-around-bidens-beach-home/?utm_campaign=iphone_nyp&utm_source=twitter_app
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October 23, 2021 8:41am
- kowtow
  
  Biden’s had another dreadful gaffe filled “town hall” .
  
  You wouldn’t know it from our Media Pardy though.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:44am
- sooty
  
  Didn’t this government erect fencing around all the MPs private residential property for free!
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:34am
- Ruawai
  
  Bidens beach house looks like a 3 storied state house.
  
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  October 23, 2021 1:38pm
less than wise

For me, Yesterday was the final turning point, the government has finally over stepped the mark and democracy has truly been lost!! Show me your paper’s will become the norm soon!!! Whats next??? hand over your land and the rest of your rights?? You have now lost your right to refuse a medical treatment otherwise you will be punished. I could go on and on, but we all know where we are heading.
The scapegoat will now be the unvaxxed!!!
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October 23, 2021 8:51am
- ecco
  
  They are already demanding high net worths, via IRD, hand over details of their assets.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:33am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Scapegoats can produce martyrs increasing their tormentors problems.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:30am
- hullkiwi
  
  Yes, but they haven’t even thought through what Cindy mandated. For instance, how are they going to impose “show me your passport” when Joe Bloggs comes to use public transport in Auckland or Wellington on the buses, trains or ferries? It is going to bea complete shambles!
  
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  October 23, 2021 2:00pm
Fletch

Sir Dave Dobbyn gets it – Twitter exchange,

Hamish Keith –

“The unvaccinated will feel isolated and picked on
So they bloody well should”

—

David Joseph Dobbyn–

“I thought we’re fighting COVID, not humanity”

—

Hamish Keith –

“I hope you missed my point
There are a number of people for reasons against reason putting the health of the rest of us at risk – that is I believe a dangerous and possibly lethal point of few – should we simply shrug it off?”

—-

David Joseph Dobbyn

“Perhaps you’re right. But one could suspect mandate’s and authoritarianism could become far more lethal in the medium term. Especially in a climate of fashionable neo- Marxism. History proves it over & over.”

—

https://twitter.com/hamish_keith/status/1451330848607797252
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October 23, 2021 8:53am
- emmess
  
  Dave Dobbyn has gone way up in my opinion
  I thought he was a far lefty
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:17am
- rouppe
  
  Nice. Thought Dobbyn was a Jacinda fan-boy…
  
  https://m.facebook.com/jacindaardern/videos/1961900030590900/?locale2=sw_KE
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/121695540/pm-jacinda-ardern-dave-dobbyn-to-open-new-redcliffs-school-in-christchurch
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:30am
- KevO'Brien
  
  If the “vaccine” suppliers were prepared to accept legal responsibility for the outcomes relating to their products some of us may have been more agreeable.
  
  Now they are too late for us to avoid their new tyranny.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:35am
  - virtualmark
    
    The vaccine suppliers take legal responsibility once their medicine is fully approved.
    
    Originally the vaccines were brought to market quickly under “emergency use approvals”. Under the EUA the liability rests with the government.
    
    Pfizer, for one, has now got full approval, which is when they started calling their vaccine Comirnaty. From that full approval point onwards they take legal responsibility.
    
    But in New Zealand regardless of whether it is under emergency use approval or full approval ACC takes the primary responsibility.
    
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    October 23, 2021 1:18pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      No, they don’t. The purchase agreements have come to light and they are horrifyingly full of protective clauses.
      They can be seen here:
      https://www.globalresearch.ca/pfizers-power-pfizer-reserves-the-right-to-silence-governments/5759330
      
      Our ACC provisions also protect Pfizer and others. We should have the rights to participate in class actions suits as appropriate.
      
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      October 23, 2021 5:34pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Kev,
        
        Once the vaccine has full authorisation then, as with all medicines, the vendor is responsible for it.
        
        The indemnity provided to Pfizer (and similarly to the other vaccine providers) is because if you want to rush a medicine into use before the full testing and review process is complete then someone needs to shoulder the risk of unforeseen problems that didn’t come up in the Phase III trials.
        
        So, you need to either:
        (1) Not take any vaccines until they have full authorisation, in which case we’d only be starting to vaccinate our population now, or
        (2) Wait till the vaccines pass the initial clinical trials and then put them into use immediately, but indemnify the provider because it’s your decision to put it to use immediately, not theirs.
        
        So how about you tell me which of Options 1 or 2 you would have chosen?
        
        Lots of people here complaining about how long New Zealand has been locked down for, and how slow the vaccine rollout has been … well Option 1 is a **lot** slower and longer than Option 2.
        
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        October 24, 2021 11:33am
- All_on_Red
  
  Keith proves the point that inside every Progressive is a Totalitarian screaming to get out.
  Dobbyn is right about Neo Marxism being ‘fashionable’ too- whose practitioners have more than a few enablers amongst those who call themselves liberal.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:40am
- Ed Snack
  
  And if one ever wondered how people like Hitler, or Stalin or Pol Pot got started, just remember that there are people just like Hamish Keith around at all times.
  
  Fascism is the mood of the time.
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:10am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Wow..
  I’ve never been much of a Dave Dobbyn fan… but looks like I owe one of my daughters an apology.
  
  From now on I won’t mute the volume if one of his songs is broadcast.
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:28am
- alloytoo
  
  It’s a slippery slope, I appose mandates, but if we’re going to do it lets start with mandates on beneficiaries.
  
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  October 23, 2021 1:56pm
Bobba Fret

Good to hear the Radius Care bloke say they will be allowing visitors to their rest homes next week.
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October 23, 2021 8:53am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Sensible, kind and caring.
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:29am
Fishing in the dark

This Government produces constantly failures.
Housing – FAIL
Transport – FAIL
Education – FAIL
Health – FAIL
Covid Response – FAIL
Environment – FAIL
Well Being of NZ People – FAIL
Economy – FAIL
Finances – FAIL
etc.
The concerning part is that 50% plus voters still believe what a marvellous they are doing without seeing that they are getting poorer and poorer.
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October 23, 2021 8:54am
- ecco
  
  You can achieve that abysmal record and still get your sycophants to support you if you muzzle the MSM and control all the narrative. Easy enough to do in NZ with only two main news outlets.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:35am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    I’m starting to miss the days when female voters were confined to the kitchen reading Women’s Weekly instead of running the country.
    
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    October 23, 2021 11:54am
  - mawm
    
    Roughly 1/3 of American voters think Biden is competent to run the US government despite the evidence right before their eyes. Go figure!
    
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    October 23, 2021 12:58pm
- sooty
  
  You have to ask? ‘What has worked!”
  I can’t see any that has!
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:37am
Paulus

Now with her prognostication of 90% of ALL DHBs – which will never be possible, it allows her to blame everybody but herself.
Usual Socialist tactics – not my fault, but yours for not doing what I told you.
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October 23, 2021 8:54am
- sooty
  
  Will she have to put a sycophant in to take control of the DHBs and enforce her will?
  Is that little angry little?
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:41am
  - Paulus
    
    Hasn’t Mahuta’s sister already been put initially in charge of the DHB revolution ?
    
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    October 23, 2021 2:21pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Just wait until Jaspinda and the loopy Greens get hold of this:
https://dailypatriotreport.com/bidens-new-plan-take-millions-of-vehicles-off-highways-by-putting-people-on-trains/
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October 23, 2021 8:55am
Tony Stuart

A powerful op-ed by Judith Collins:

What we saw today from the Prime Minister was dismaying for Kiwis all over New Zealand.

Aucklanders, in particular, who have now suffered almost 10 weeks of lockdown tuned in today expecting a clear path out. A clear plan and timeline for when they could see loved ones in aged care, kids back in school and family across New Zealand.

Since the announcement I have been inundated with emails of people at breaking point. A husband who hasn’t seen a wife in aged care in 11 weeks. A young man dying of cancer who can’t see friends and family spread across New Zealand. Grandparents who haven’t seen children and grandchildren stranded offshore for two years.

Businesses wanted a plan to open up, not simply an increase in government subsidies.

When I talk to a hairdresser in tears because her savings are all gone and she can’t pay her mortgage, my heart isn’t breaking for the bricks and mortar of her salon. It is her loss that I feel. She is losing something she has worked hard for and saved for over decades. Countless weekends, late nights and early mornings. She is losing her home, her retirement, her life’s work.

She’s been done in.

She feels powerless to do anything but watch her life’s work go down the drain. And now she’s been told she might have to wait months more to get any real income. She says she feels like giving up.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/judith-collins-government-announces-new-traffic-light-system-but-at-what-cost/GK4YVZLAFNMGOZ2SVTBIWNFHAI/

A survey by the Auckland Chamber of Commerce this week made for sobering reading. 50% of those businesses surveyed had lost more than $100,000 in equity in the last year. Many hand funded the loss in equity through their savings, lines of credit, or extended mortgages on their homes.

Judith Collins was emotional when addressing the media, and with some cause, even if she was accused of crocodile tears. Her office has been inundated with calls and emails from business owners, mainly from Auckland, but from all over New Zealand, who are under intense pressure to even survive, let alone turn a profit for their owners. Her emotion was genuine.

Her op-ed concludes thus:

Countries around the world are opening up. Australian states are ending lockdowns for those fully vaccinated once 70 per cent are fully vaccinated. Vaccine certificates are up and running meaning the fully vaccinated can go back to work, dine out or go to the gym. Every other OECD country has vaccine certificates.

Yet New Zealand’s isn’t going to be ready until, we are told, mid-December. Although the website has again been edited to “later this year”.

If Labour could deliver a simple web app that allows someone to prove vaccination, one million fully vaccinated Aucklanders could return to work tomorrow.

Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins needs to call health officials into his office tomorrow and tell them they have one week to get this up and running.

It seems trite to appeal to the Prime Minister’s kindness when it has become such a government buzzword in recent years, but I will do just that nonetheless. What the Jacinda Ardern Government is putting Kiwis through is nothing short of cruel.

I implore the Prime Minister to consider the cost of her “unique” Covid approach. Perhaps the most difficult task of a leader is to weigh the costs of their actions. I fear Jacinda Ardern’s answer to the question “at what cost?” is well off the mark.

New Zealand needs a path back to normality. Yes a vaccine target is needed, 85 per cent, or the first of December, whatever comes first, then New Zealand needs to be given its freedom back.

The cost to New Zealand’s small businesses from this lockdown has been far worse than that of 2020. And it’s not just a financial cost; I know how much pressure our business is under, and the anxiety and at times despair the Government’s decisions are causing is frightening.

Judith Collins was seen in a different light yesterday, and should allow her vulnerability to be seen more often. And she needs to continue to push for a “path back to normality” because the Prime Minister did not deliver that yesterday.
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October 23, 2021 8:57am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Ardern’s hubris will not allow her to to the right thing.
  
  Ardern will be reveling in Collins’ ‘It seems trite to appeal to the Prime Minister’s kindness when it has become such a government buzzword in recent years’, she will see it as finally have ‘beaten’ National by having the party leader ‘crawl’ to her hem.
  
  Whuk Ardern!
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:09am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Narcissism is a far better word than hubris
    
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    October 23, 2021 10:28am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Nats need to be very careful from now on as to how they “message” their Covid articles.
  
  Hubby was disgusted yesterday when he heard Judith Collins say ” the country was being held to ransom by people who would not get vaccinated.”
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-tearful-national-party-leader-judith-collins-heartbroken-for-auckland-businesses/XV4GGEORABZIRNBBKEV26CKHIE/
  
  If that’s the message that’s the Nats want to push, then they may as well call themselves Jacinda’s little helpers.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:18am
  - Cinematic
    
    Agreed. But JC is saying that without a deadline date/freedom day it is the unvaxxed that will prevent reopening. In that sense JC is correct.
    
    But that’s what she should say, too often JC infers which is a bad habit of smart people. Just say:
    
    “Labour has refused to give a deadline date, so now all of NZ must hope that those slow or reluctant to get vaxxed will eventually do so. Come on Labour give us a date!”
    
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    October 23, 2021 10:25am
  - Ruawai
    
    The country is being held to ransom by the Labour Govt who have set impossible targets to keep control of the people forever and have now cleverly passed the blame to DHBs and the unvaccinated.
    
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    October 23, 2021 1:42pm
- MCos
  
  Judith Collins talks about vaccine certificates.
  I have one from the Ministry of Health stating which covid vaccines I have and when I got them.
  However.
  Is that any good in other countries?
  Canada, for example has different certificates in each state. The EU has a generic version that can be used in all their countries. It also shows your latest covid test info, which our doesn’t, I don’t think. Maybe it’s elsewhere.
  The UK doesn’t even recognize vaccines that were injected in some countries.
  I wonder how the international airlines cope?
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:41am
- Diogenes
  
  My (Christchurch) dentist told me that he has lost all his life savings trying to hold his business together during this time. He is hanging on by a thread. How are Auckland dentists surviving through this extended lockdown? And what will Auckland people do if dentists become an endangered species?
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:58am
- Tom Hunter
  
  Since you’re seemingly in close contact with her you need to tell Collins to back of the shit about the country being held hostage by those not vaccinated.
  
  That’s just buying into Adern’s key message. It’s what I expect from Labour, not National.
  
  Keep this up and “vulnerable” or not (give it up on that front, she’ll never match Adern) National could lose another 3 points in the polls.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:05am
- Paulus
  
  Bet the Hairdresser voted for her !
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:25am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  She is still talking vaccine certificates, though. New Zealanders, by definition, cannot be “given their freedom back” if they are to be required to show evidence of compliance to the arbitrary dictates of a medical tyranny. That is not freedom by any stretch of the imagination. Must try much, much harder, Collins.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:43am
  - mawm
    
    National will not get my vote just for wanting to do what Jacinda is doing but better and more efficiently.
    
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    October 23, 2021 1:06pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Judith is human too, a superior grade. A former President of the Auckland Law Society and a Master’s degree in Tax Law shows her abilities.
  
  We all all suffer these lockdowns. I feel for my clients too. People raiding their resources to the limit to survive are under enormous stress as are their employees. I am concerned about the number of business failures to come.
  
  Kindness is recognition that we mutually concerned. That also applies to the productive sector. That may just be a small home business supporting teenage spending needs. All those enliven us and contribute to other’s benefits. That economic interchange enables all to develop and for us to provide for our futures.
  
  The WEF (formerly NWO) would see us all on a universal benefit with extras at their pleasure. Undesirables would be culled. Not my idea of an acceptable Christian world.
  For the time being I will continue as a minor watchman in line with my training and revulsion at injustice.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:59am
- oldfella
  
  Tony: and the horrid hides it behind a paywall. Bastards!
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:16am
- Fletch
  
  I still don’t like the idea of vaccine certificates. Any way you slice it, it’s still baloney.
  
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  October 23, 2021 4:35pm
  - marcw
    
    A certificate is a record of vaccine, date and batch administered, for a person. Different to vaccination passport, which comes with implied permissions and restrictions. A certificate is a valid record, and is just that, and belongs to the identifiable owner.
    
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    October 23, 2021 4:44pm
Paulus Gnome

Bruce Cotterill writes a level headed piece in the Herald this morning that I believe aligns with the thinking on the state of New Zealand that many here ascribe to.

https://www-pressreader-com.aucklandlibraries.idm.oclc.org/new-zealand/weekend-herald/20211023/page/73
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October 23, 2021 8:58am
- ecco
  
  Thanks for that link Paulus. I was unaware you could access the Saturday Ferald on press reader. That’s good if it opens up all the paywalled stuff to the general public.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:41am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Yes, for better or worse.
    
    I found it for all the reasons I don’t want to support the aholes with a sub (my ‘sub’ is from the enforced sub of my rates) but like to read the opinion pieces from the likes of Cotterill, Alexander, Joyce.
    
    There are some worth reading, others not so much . . .
    
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    October 23, 2021 12:42pm
CSadler

Everyone is always the hero of their story. Currently people have been comforted by the belief they are “doing the right thing” heroically.

Time will take care of our current calamitous leadership. The anger as recorded in yesterday’s stuff “how do you feel poll” is the first positive sign of the Kiwi developing some critical thinking.

Diversity is a positive thing in a community – I believe we will again recognise this as the herd is challenged by the spreading of the virus among the safe and free. I really hope the path we are on is successful but fear international experience is indicating it is not.

Get fit. Get sunlight and fresh air and hunker down it ain’t going to be pretty IMO
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October 23, 2021 9:00am
Chuck Bird

This is not premium

Covid 19 Delta outbreak: Jacinda Ardern hopes Auckland boundary can loosen by summer – but no guarantees

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-delta-outbreak-jacinda-ardern-hopes-auckland-boundary-can-loosen-by-summer-but-no-guarantees/5WJNSOIKZMI3J2EJGQQAGPPT5U/
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October 23, 2021 9:01am
- Frank the tank
  
  Dopey Derek was on instructions there. Add him to the Tova/Jessica shitshow on offer from the feckless.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:15am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Watch her word soup. She is as cunning as a shithouse rat
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:18am
Fletch

If anyone is interested, that lawyer Sue Grey who does a lot of the stuff around 1080 drops has a court case challenging the ‘No Jab, No Job’ laws on behalf of aviation workers. It was presented yesterday to His Honour Justice Cooke in the High Court, who has said he will render a verdict by 5pm Wednesday.
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October 23, 2021 9:09am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Yeah, she has a few deluded followers of her various anti-science causes.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:32am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  Court action is good, but it has less chance of success than taking direct action. The best response is popular revolt: refusing vaccination and being willing to be be fired for it (i.e. calling the employer’s bluff); withholding patronage from anywhere enforcing vaccine-only access; if you are a business owner, not enforcing vaccine-only access, and so on. As with anything worthwhile in the long run, there is no easy way, so it will take some moral fortitude and some personal inconvenience for a while.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:23am
  - SilverSurfer
    
    My Grandad went to war to protect his beliefs and to stand against tyranny, im not so sure the average kiwi has that kind of intestinal fortitude anymore, i would happily be proved wrong though.
    
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    October 23, 2021 12:12pm
  - mawm
    
    Yes, this is the correct response but it will not get you onto Air New Zealand and through the border into Australia and almost all OECD countries. I would be quite happy to see Davos turned into a pile of nuclear waste, hopefully with those who deserve it amongst the radioactive dust.
    
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    October 23, 2021 1:13pm
lifesgood

All the modellers for covid have been completely wrong. What makes anyone think the climate change modellers are right?
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October 23, 2021 9:09am
- rouppe
  
  You have that the wrong way around.
  
  None of the climate change modelers have been right.
  
  What made anyone think the covid modelers would be right?
  
  The first clue was the 80,000 deaths model which was based on a non existent premise of doing nothing. Most of the subsequent models have been about providing we graphs to support her decisions that were made that morning
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:37am
- KevO'Brien
  
  I believe they are probably even wronger.
  Who gains when the earth goes into a centuries or more cold cycle again and we have shut down heating supplies?
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:04am
- Ehlana
  
  The broken clock is right twice a day? So eventually, someone has to get something right…
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:27am
ecco

Has anyone noticed that Stuffed is just a total mouthpiece for Ardern’s propaganda. Even more so than the Ferald.

They are running a piece – an interview by Malpass with Ardern where Ardern, in response to the backlash from yesterday, is rolling out all her ifs, buts, and maybes to her ill conceived traffic light plan.

Ardern is stating that vaccine passports will be used at the Auckland border, at an undisclosed time. Ie when the incompetent department organising that rollout gets their act together.

Can you imagine the absolute shambles you’ll get on the Auckland motorways if every car load over xmas has to show their vaccine passport. What a joke.

I guess the gangs won’t have to show their passports just their leather patches.
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October 23, 2021 9:14am
- pdm
  
  Months ago ecco.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:02am
Observer of Life

Open up NOW. NO Covid passports. What’s so hard in that?
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October 23, 2021 9:14am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  I’ve said it before, but it is worth repeating, that if we have, say 75% vaccination rate overall, then that will be sufficient for herd immunity, and therefore vax passports will become redundant. Even without herd immunity, then surely the vaxxed are protected on the basis of the injections being “safe and effective.” Invoking the illogical need to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated is just batshit crazy.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:52am
  - mawm
    
    From UK Health – Covid 19 Vaccine Surveillance Report week 42
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1027511/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-42.pdf
    Table 2 Cases by vaccination status:-
    40 – 49y age group rates
    per 100 00[0] vaccinated – 1,731.3.
    per 100 000 unvaccinated – 772.9
    50 – 59y age group rates
    per 100 000 vaccinated – 1,075.3
    per 100 00[0] unvaccinated – 528.6
    
    Quite clearly the vaxxed are the carriers now.
    
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    October 23, 2021 1:26pm
ecco

Seymour is putting out some great pieces on his Facebook page in response to the omnishambles that is unrolling with the government. I find I’m using Facebook increasingly for news with the censorship that is going on with the msm due to Ardern’s media bribe fund.

If you go on the Grounded Kiwis Facebook group there are some heartbreaking (and angry) stories of people shut out of NZ at the moment due to the failed Miq lottery system.
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October 23, 2021 9:19am
- MCos
  
  “I find I’m using Facebook increasingly for news”
  
  All the news you want to hear.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:56am
MCos

I listened to a podcast this morning about the serious shortage of building material, framing timber, gib board, nails.
On top of that shortages are leading to big prices rises.
Within five minutes walk of my house groundwork is underway at four sites for 70+ dwellings.
Inflation is rising and one can be sure interest rates will follow.
Maybe the people aren’t going to be around to buy these houses in nine months time.
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October 23, 2021 9:19am
- Cinematic
  
  Are you suggesting there will be flight from NZ to less crazily run shores such as Australia? You could be right.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:02am
  - MCos
    
    I suggesting cheap money has contributed to higher house prices.
    When I was house hunting in Auckland eight years ago I went to a number of auctions. Back then prices were escalating fast, as they have ever since, and big crowds were fronting up and watching bids going up dependant not on what they’d been told the houses should sell for, but what they could afford.
    In the interim interest rates have gone down and prices have gone up.
    Developers around here have paid a lot of money to buy land to redevelop plus they now have escalating building costs and interest rates look set to rise.
    Maybe people aren’t going to be around to buy the houses.
    
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    October 23, 2021 3:17pm
- DeepBlue
  
  For the first time ever, Auckland’s population has decreased. People have moved south. Just wait for the planes to restart to Australia. If you’re going to be treated like this, you may as well do it where there is more future and opportunity.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:26am
- Russ the Muss
  
  Yeah this is a slow burner…. there is a good chance that housing prices will indeed slump based on the key drivers being reversed. Cheap money is gone for at least 4 years, immigration has stopped and supply of housing is increasing. Even 12 months ago the net build rate was higher and prices were surging on speculation and FOMO mostly. No one knows what is going to happen. But I wouldn’t he shocked if we had a house surplus very soon and a strong correction. In theory it should happen…but humans and speculation is very hard to predict!
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:01am
  - artemisia
    
    Not sure about a house surplus. Developers rely on pre sales to maintain bank financing. A few days ago a $200 million development in Remuera (St Marks) was cancelled due to only a half dozen sales off the plan. There are always cancellations of consented developments and there are now uncertain cost increases to be considered by developers and their banks.
    
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    October 23, 2021 4:40pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s happened previously: house price inflation meant dwellings couldn’t be finished or sold when complete. (1960’s ? Hutt Valley).
  
  Only looking at lockdown stats is to take the eye off the ball.
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:10am
Ruawai

This taken from the Herald today:
“Aucklanders could move out of level 3 when all of its three DHBs hit the target – by early December on current trends – but the hard boundary surrounding the city would remain as long as any of the country’s other DHBs were below 90 per cent.”
So all DHBs have to be at 90% double vaxed for Aucklanders to leave Auckland, but even then they will move to red light so still may not be able to. Lockdown til 2050!
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October 23, 2021 9:21am
- ecco
  
  The maoris are not going to get to 90% vax rate. So manukau dhb will never make it and will hold Auckland back in perpetuity. The maoris have pretty much stated that themselves that they can’t make 90%. I guess Ardern is just using the whole covid vax rate to continue to oppress the Auckland region.
  
  I’m also guessing that the extra $120m thrown at the Maori vax rate won’t be anything too scientific. Just a straight cash payout. So a Maori can rock up to a vax centre and get $600 for a jab. Can then go and spend it with the mob on some more supplies.
  
  As someone paying tax of 39cents in the $ that just really winds me up and makes me want to make plans to exit this country if Ardern gets back in next election.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:50am
  - virtualmark
    
    Maoridom should be careful what they wish for.
    
    They claim that the vaccine roll-out is “racist”. Although I’ve not yet seen anyone detail exactly how or why that is.
    
    Meanwhile, if it ends up that the country is stuck in lockdown limbo largely because of low Maori vaccination rates then just wait and see how the public mood towards Maori turns.
    
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    October 23, 2021 1:24pm
    - WaveyDavey
      
      “Racist” because they actually have to leave to sofa
      
      They even say as much, they want the vaccines brought to them
      
      Here’s a simple question for anyone who truly believes it’s racist:
      
      If Maori, in Auckland, aged 50 and over can get to pretty much 100% how come Maori aged, for example, 35 can’t?
      
      The old & vulnerable have made the effort. The young and lazy can’t be arsed and seem to enjoy being pandered to
      
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      October 23, 2021 2:48pm
      - ByGolly
        
        If Maori, in Auckland, aged 50 and over can get to pretty much 100% how come Maori aged, for example, 35 can’t?
        
        Simple, because they don’t need it.
        
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        October 23, 2021 7:19pm
      - WaveyDavey
        
        Well you may be right
        
        Perhaps they could tell the govt that uses them as a handy trump card that and wheels them out as needed
        
        Certainly their “communidy leaders” aren’t
        
        Sorry, accidental report – one wine too many
        
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        October 23, 2021 9:49pm
  - Ditch the Bitch
    
    Completely wrong.
    
    If there is a $1,000 bounty for each Maori vaxxed, the tribal elite will skim off $950 and offer their ‘slaves’ a $50 Macca voucher
    
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    October 23, 2021 1:49pm
    - WaveyDavey
      
      It’s nearer $2k per Maori
      
      $1.5bn to 850k Maori is $1,765. Your $1k is per jab
      
      BTW, I think your username is entirely unnecessary
      
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      October 23, 2021 2:50pm
Maggy Wassilieff

This time last year, I thought we might be free of Covid lockdowns and bubbles by Easter 2021 and could manage any incoming virus at the border… so I booked a flight to Oz in May. Planes were grounded a couple of days before I was due to fly…

Now, I am pretty sure that Covid matters won’t be resolved satisfactorily in NZ anytime in the first half of 2022…and doubtfully in the latter half of the year…so I’m starting to plan for another year at home….2022 might be the year I finally finish knitting that Jersey I started 7 years ago when we moved to Gizzy.
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October 23, 2021 9:32am
- mikenmildagain
  
  “The war will be over be Christmas…”
  Said everyone who had vacations booked for 1915 or 1940.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:35am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Meanwhile international travel will be back to normal for vaccinated travellers in every other country.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:56am
  - Cinematic
    
    Yes BY, and unvaccinated. But it’s ok. NZ is on a unique path.
    
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    October 23, 2021 10:17am
- pdm
  
  I reckon it will take until the election in 2023 and the `kicking out’ of Ardern and her incompetent cohorts to get things operating properly again.
  
  This week has only confirmed how hopeless they are.
  
  If I was Judith Collins I would be in Tony Ryalls ear to see if he will come in at number 3 on the list to take over Covid Responsibility – with Dr. Shane Reti as Health Minister we will then have proven people in two critical portfolios.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:23am
- emmess
  
  It is now only a few months short of how long the Spanish Flu pandemic is consider to have lasted for
  
  That was 2 years 2 months
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#cite_note-NIH-NYC-1
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:25am
  - Ruawai
    
    You have to wonder if lockdowns have just extended the pandemic.
    
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    October 23, 2021 1:46pm
Yvette

There are questions as to whether Winston Churchill knew in advance that Pearl Harbour was to be attacked and didn’t pass any warning on, so the US would be drawn into World War II.
How many deaths will be needed before those not vaccinated see it may be a better idea to be vaccinated.

How many need to be sacrificed before everyone eligible is inclined to have a vaccination – an artificial protein of the covid spike markers to teach your immune system to recognise and destroy the real virus when it will eventually enters your body, so a remember action saves vital time, and so saves you from serious illness or even death – is better preparation than just letting the body struggle to recognise and respond to actual covid engulfing it?

An unbeatable leader in times of crisis, New Zealand prime minister Jacinda Ardern’s soaring popularity has teetered on the country’s slow road to vaccination.
… Previously, Australia had been trailing New Zealand on the “fully vaccinated” metric – partly because AstraZeneca has a longer advised wait-time between doses. But this week, driven by outbreaks in-country, Australia overtook New Zealand … New Zealand’s pace puts it as one of the slower vaccine rollouts in the OECD. – the Guardian Wed 4 Aug 2021

New Zealand’s vaccine roll-out has been neither “hard” nor “early” – those first vaccinated and so fully immune (April 16) will be 8 months and 16 days by January 1, 2022, so well past their Best By Date.

• Two consecutive mass shootings occurred at mosques in a terrorist attack in Christchurch, New Zealand, during Friday Prayer on 15 March 2019. Deaths 51, injured 40
• On the afternoon of Monday December 9, 2019 Whakaari White Island erupted while tours were in progress, killing 22 people and injuring 25
• New Zealand covid deaths 28
• Australia covid deaths 1,448

When more deaths occur, through Government ineptness, or now more likely the natural spread of the virus, people will be more inclined to get vaccinated, either for themselves or for others.

Some may confuse the issue with colonial baggage, “religious” considerations, a lack of simple education about the virus, and other matters.
Others may see the virus comes from beyond New Zealand borders, and the only solution at present, the vaccine, comes from beyond our borders too, so is little to do with New Zealand other than it being the venue, and the Government being the agency providing the free, accessible vaccine.

Despite Dr Amanda Kvalsvig saying the traffic light system had not been designed to uphold Te Tiriti O Waitangi,
under the Treaty, the “Crown” provides Article 3 “protection”: the vaccine.
You take it – or leave it.
Either decision may “free” people …
:o)
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October 23, 2021 9:33am
Stellaboxer

Have a great weekend all and if you want some cheering up go onto Labour’s Facebook page and read the posts. I think she’s read the room wrong.
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October 23, 2021 9:40am
Benedict Yu

Can I please ask a question of the unvaccinated?

Have any of you changed your mind after yesterday’s announcement?

Secondly, it now seems that vaccine certificates will be mandated by the vast majority of cafes, bars etc and many other businesses.

Is this going to be a major headache or will you just take it in your stride?
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October 23, 2021 9:54am
- Tom Hunter
  
  No. In fact I am now more determined than ever not to get this vaccination for a disease that’s slightly worse than the flu, for which I have also rejected shots for decades. That despite being vaccinated for dozens of diseases, including occasional booster shots, over the decades.
  
  My reason for rejection always lay with that risk calculation which, for me, was low, plus the knowledge that the vaccinated were going to catch and spread the virus anyhow. Protect the vulnerable with the vax, plus other safeguards, but we accept the deaths of 500-700 people, mostly elderly, from flu every year and do not enforce that vaccine (coming soon perhaps in desire to live a low-risk life).
  
  But this is now beyond that. I will not submit to this fucking shit. My wealth and the fact that I retired at 50 mean it’s easier for me. My Gen-Z kids not so much, but they have US citizenship and are already discussing when to leave. We will see.
  
  As far as I’m concerned it is no longer even an objection to government coercion but a rejection of my fellow New Zealanders – or rather the rejection I soon expect from friends. So be it. I’m not going to kowtow to fucking people, even friends, who are suffering the mentality of witch burners. If they’re capable of this, and everything to date shows that they are, then fuck them.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:14am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Some days I feel quite sorry for Tom Hunter. This is not one of those days. May his ‘friends’ treat his narcissism with the contempt it deserves.
    
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    October 23, 2021 5:38pm
  - MCos
    
    Personally I couldn’t give a rat’s arse if you chose not to be vaccinated.
    
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    October 23, 2021 7:49pm
- Fletch
  
  I haven’t changed my mind. It has only strengthened my resolve, and that of a lot of other people I know.
  I will most likely lose my job, I suspect, given that it revolves around retail. I only hope that this has woken NZ up. I’m not sure how the mandate thing is going to play out.
  
  On the one hand, I am happy for businesses who I am sure will be glad to open up and will most likely fall in behind the mandate thing in order to survive. On the other hand, I sort of hope that people do not patronize them so that there will an outcry and the mandate goes.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:21am
- Cinematic
  
  I can answer as a single dosed. Yesterday’s announcement has delayed my second dose.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:31am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The hubby’s antipathy to being vaxxed has hardened.
  He can only see this is terms of ostracising the untermenschen.
  
  I have delayed being vaxxed until I need to travel overseas.
  So until our Dear Government sorts out its shit about quarantining returning vaxxed folk and produces an internationally recognised vax certificate, I’ll remain Covid unvaxxed.
  
  Had I been vaxxed when first eligible, my covid immunity would now be on the wane…
  
  I couldn’t give two hoots if I’m forbidden entry to bars or concerts – places I don’t frequent.
  
  And if “friends” don’t want me around, then so be it,
  tho’ I’m not in the habit of being social if I’m unwell.
  
  I might miss swimming in the Olympic pool..but if Tairawhiti fails to get to 90% vaxxed, the day may never arrive when I’m asked to produce a vax certificate… Anyway, the beach is only a few 100 metres away.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:32am
  - kevn
    
    @Maggy… Some here would label you anti-vax.
    Of course how wrong are they. There are many in the same boat as you. Medical professionals included.
    
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    October 23, 2021 10:46am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      But I’m not anti-vax.
      I’m TB, Polio and tetanus vaxxed (tho the latter may be near it’s use-by-date).
      It’s just that I’ll get covid-vaxxed when it suits me and my plans… not when some Government decrees it.
      
      I have no desire to be vaxxed at some temporary edifice by someone who doesn’t possess a medical degree and who hasn’t discussed my medical history
      with me.
      And as I have no great desire to be bothering my GPs whilst they are dealing with sick folk, I’ll wait until the need arises.
      
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      October 23, 2021 1:48pm
  - Russ the Muss
    
    There is no logic to a friend not seeing you if they are vaxxed. Are they not bullet proof with their ‘armour’? Why should they care? They could always double mask up and crawl back under their bed while you wait in the decontamination Laundry….
    
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    October 23, 2021 10:55am
  - sooty
    
    It’s hardened me too!
    Untill we are allowed an alternative, or a new one becomes available, I’ll pass thank you!
    I think business is not going to turn down money, I hope the building supermarket will do click and collect still. Cafes, restaurants, entertainment are just going having to miss out on my money! Internet buying from selected firms, will get my patronage, unlike places like farmers, wharehouse, kmart that went woke!
    It’s my money and I will spend as I want too!
    
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    October 23, 2021 11:09am
  - Cinematic
    
    Yep those vaxxed in the early days are headed back to first base.
    
    I’m now delaying my second shot for the same reason (thought I had my timing right but Jacinda et al even crazier than I had surmised).
    
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    October 23, 2021 11:56am
- Observer of Life
  
  Ben: Have spoken with a friend who is unvaccinated. No change for him. He’s just preparing for a change in lifestyle. And NO, he is not an anti-vaxxer. Just doesn’t believe Pfizer is the answer. I admire him tbh.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:33am
- Stellaboxer
  
  Have I changed my mind after yesterday’s announcement? I will not have my second jab. My wife who was beginning to move towards having the jab has now completely decided against it as have my two adult sons. Being English maybe we don’t like politicians who threaten us or tell us what we can and can’t do.
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:01am
- Ed Snack
  
  For me no doubt inconvenient. I’m Vaxxed but I will refuse to deal with any business that demands vax certificates, and I’ll be rude about it too.
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:14am
- KevO'Brien
  
  We will overcome. Ultimately law has to work or NZ will just lapse into a sorry state of Might Have Been.
  
  The plans that the WEF have are just becoming visible. Next year may be one which historians will be writing about in centuries to come.
  Ardern may prove to be a very small beer.
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:16am
- Mrs_Right
  
  No, not at all. Quiet the opposite.
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:32am
  - tf78
    
    Mrs_R, but not for good reasons.
    
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    October 23, 2021 2:06pm
- JimBobJoe
  
  No change of mind.
  
  If/when a fully attenuated virus vaccine is available and been trialed – maybe then I will take a jab, but Pfizer et al can sling their hook elsewhere as far as I am concerned.
  
  My age and health profile mean I see zero reason to be vaccinated.
  
  I have been on the ‘protect the vulnerable and the healthy take your chances’ approach since I listened to Jay Bhattacharya talking about the results of blood screening in California in May 2020. Just confirmed that Covid19 was not of the Plague of Justinian proportions alarmists made it out to be.
  
  And Bhattacharyas statements around the unintended consequences of lockdowns as being extremely serious for long term health outcomes was very persuasive in going for the protect the vulnerable approach
  
  Being barred form all sorts of activities and places doesn’t bother me.
  
  When the vaxxed infect the vaxxed maybe the stupidity of trusting a person in Ms Ardern with zero real world experience to make complex multi-variate decisions will be exposed to all her voting base.
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:37am
- kris
  
  Anyone who changed their mind as a result has been successfully coerced.
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:42am
- hookerphil
  
  Personally hardened, I am disgusted by the passport proposals. I intend to make a yellow star to wear in due course. I am a South Islander that lives in a covid free area, I really feel for all of those who are locked down.
  FJA
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:46am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  First, yesterday’s announcement only validates and strengthens my justifications for not taking the shot. It’s a naked control measure.
  
  Second, I’m more than happy to deprive of my money any business who sees fit to discriminate against me and wants to know my personal medical details. I don’t know what’s in it for them to lose perhaps a quarter of their revenue based on an arbitrary government coercive policy.
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:46am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    I haven’t bought Heineken for 3 months since they put out their disgusting “the night belongs to the vaxxed” advert. I’ll never buy their product in my life again.
    
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    October 24, 2021 1:33am
- Ditch the Bitch
  
  I am vaxxed but won’t get a booster and won’t frequent any business who discriminates on basis of vax status. I am not ‘Anti-vaxxer’ but ‘Pro Choice’
  
  As an aside, I will support any business that refuses to serve obese folk on the basis that they are costing us all dearly
  
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  October 23, 2021 1:52pm
- MCos
  
  My daughter & her husband also have strong views about the effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine.
  A couple a guys working at their house said they didn’t intend to get vaccinated so they told them they could bugger off.
  They quickly reassessed their options for putting sausages on the table and got vaccinated.
  
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  October 23, 2021 8:13pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    What a pair of spineless muppets. Your daughter does realise she can still catch and pass the virus on to others doesn’t she? Why was she worried about whether or not the workers were vaccinated? Doesn’t the vaccine protect her?
    Have a think about what you’re saying.
    
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    October 24, 2021 1:31am
- ClanMcleod
  
  The harder Ardern pushes the less chance I will ever get jabbed. I know a con job when I see one and I detest bullies with a passion. She is both a con artist and a narcissistic political thug of the worst kind.
  It’s astonishing that so many NZers think she is “kind”. She is pure evil.
  I’ll do without whatever it is I have to do without. I’ll frequent those who don’t fall for this bullshit with even more fiscal support.
  
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  October 24, 2021 1:44am
ecco

Lots of stories starting to appear in the Ferald about the ‘horrors’ of getting covid/ nursing stories from covid wards. These are straight out of Ardern’s communication department and are obvious a direct edict to the stuffed and Ferald editors to ‘run these stories’.

Got to keep the fear factor up. (Meanwhile suppressing any discussion/commenting on her landmark traffic light cluster f*ck of a policy). Daily Mail, the blunt instrument of a tabloid, were doing these covid stories on a slow news day as well.
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October 23, 2021 9:55am
- cmm
  
  Personal anecdotes have far more feelz than facts and stats. They are highly effective emotional manipulation.
  
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  October 23, 2021 6:29pm
Benedict Yu

I was thinking if this shit was being pulled in any other country there would be riots.
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October 23, 2021 9:57am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Don’t rule out riots happening here.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:04am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Organise a march, I will be there.
    
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    October 23, 2021 10:16am
  - Cinematic
    
    I’m ready to march and so are most of the people I know. Mainly educated law abiding productive citizens almost all of which are double vaccinated.
    
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    October 23, 2021 10:18am
- Fletch
  
  Kiwis are too complacent. We are generally the type to “go along to get along”.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:22am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Just imagine if we had guns
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:39am
pdm

Anyone else seen Garrick Tremains latest Cartoon over at Bassett, Brash and Hyde Blog.

It is a Doozy and well worth a look.
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October 23, 2021 10:05am
Maggy Wassilieff

It doesn’t look like any Country has hit a 90% Covid vaccination rate yet.

UAE seems to be the highest at 87%

then Spain 79%
https://www.google.com/search?q=vaccination+rates+europe&oq=vaccination+rates+Europe&aqs=chrome.0.0i67j0i512l2j0i390j69i60.9892j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I wonder why Our Dear PM and her advisors think 90% vaxxed is of any great significance.
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October 23, 2021 10:07am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  90% vaxed gets Her Worshipfullness back on the cover of Time.
  
  Whuk Ardern.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:17am
- Cinematic
  
  The aim is to be unique.
  
  Only a unique approach will get Jacinda to CNN or the UN or whatever and Baker and the rest of the nerd cohort to post covid seminars in glamorous destinations.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:21am
- Stu2
  
  Gibraltor and the Maldives according to Bloomberg.
  Just those two and Greenland over 90% first dose, but the Greenland numbers look odd.
  
  NSW, the ACT and Victoria will pass 90% double dose. All have been dealing with outbreaks of course, which has made vaccination a priority.
  
  The 90% came from the Hendy model. I wonder if the govt has peer reviews that can be OIAed.
  
  https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:23am
- Fletch
  
  Perhaps because the media have chosen that arbitrary figure and the govt is just going with it.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:26am
- DeepBlue
  
  All through yesterday’s announcement JA talked about still having a chance to be world leaders. Mentioned it a handful of times.
  
  JA might have given up on elimination, but her ego requires a replacement target.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:30am
  - Paulus
    
    APEC coming up very soon so she as Chairperson can show off to the Pacific Country members on line attendees how Great She Art.
    She would have preferred to be live so they could see her sympathetic dress code.
    
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    October 23, 2021 2:31pm
- lifesgood
  
  No other country in the world has mandated 90% vaccination rate. What the hell is she playing at?
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:34am
  - Paulus
    
    CONTROL !
    
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    October 23, 2021 2:32pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Its an old old ploy Maggy.
  Set a high bar for anything. Then relax it at a later date. The subliminal message.
  I set the high bar to “protect you””, then when it is relaxed, the message will Be “thank me for being so generous and concerned about you””
  
  I have observed it many times in my life.
  Manager saying if you respond to xx% of enquiries within yy days, you will get a bonus/keep your job.
  
  At xx% minus a bit. Well done, I have decided you have done a fantastic job so here is your bonus less a little bit.
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:40am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  If NZ should reach 90% the target will change. Moving goalposts since forever
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:41am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    If 90% are double-vaccinated, but the earliest were vaccinated over 6 months ago, then how meaningful is “90% vaccinated”?
    
    What about next season? Will the “90%” have to be reset to “0%”?
    
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    October 23, 2021 10:47am
- septic skeptic
  
  Many of her expert advisors think 95%+
  90% is just a compromise
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:48am
- Stellaboxer
  
  It’s significant because she knows it’s I un-achievable .
  
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  October 23, 2021 10:53am
- Taieri
  
  I wonder why Our Dear PM and her advisors think 90% vaxxed is of any great significance.
  ——————-
  
  It’s just an arbitrary number derived from Zero Covid thinking. It seems that the powers that be still labour under the elimination delusion.
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:01am
- Ed Snack
  
  I think some are 90+ of eligible adults, very few places are yet vaccinating children.
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:15am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Greater control. She may have to explain that in Court, shortly.
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:17am
- mawm
  
  Maybe that’s the point of 90% – that we won’t get there.
  
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  October 23, 2021 1:41pm
gorse

The election is two years away. We all need to contemplate on where New Zealand will be by then. I would suggest that none of Labour’s promises will be any will be anywhere near achieved. This Covid thing will be seen for the mess it is by enough people that they won’t be saved by another “Covid election”. As well there will be high unemployment. Rampant inflation, debt, GDP numbers through the floor.

They will lose, of that I am certain.
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October 23, 2021 10:26am
ABS4EVA

NOVAVAX

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5QfmSY-wV0

Novavax Oct 11th 2021 Interim Results (Severe Outcome Data Review)

Australian Government are doing their own tests on this that should allow approval late 2021.

51 million doses pre order agreement.
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October 23, 2021 10:26am
Fletch

It’s kind of ironic that our govt introduces some of the most draconian, authoritarian laws yesterday, which is also the feast day of St Pope John Paul II who helped destroy Communism in Poland and was one of the big three (along with Thatcher and Reagan) who helped tear down the Berlin Wall.
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October 23, 2021 10:32am
emmess

Everyone should engage in civil disobience now

It is not just your right now but it is your duty

Are you vaccinated? Say, I have vaccines
Wear your mask. Put it on or or below your nose. And say you have a medical condition. It is good for your blood pressure to meekly comply?

It is very important that we become an ‘Irish Democracy’ as soon as possible
https://nypost.com/2021/10/14/covid-regime-is-driving-americans-to-a-healthy-noncompliance/
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October 23, 2021 10:33am
Truman lodge

Jacinda said this morning that even if Auckland is vaxxed other communities that are lagging behind won’t want the border open so their loved ones are not exposed and that these communities still want to stamp out covid.

WTF

Auckland has been goaded for months being told your holding the country to ransom and get vaccinated or else. Now this is virtually an admission that the rest of nz can take its time so stuff you Auckland. Looks like Xmas is off for us Aucklanders wow..
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October 23, 2021 10:36am
- septic skeptic
  
  Cindy blurted out her answer in the press conference yesterday before the question was finished. She was doing as she usually does and answering a different question, one she hoped they had asked. I think the true position is “yes, you can pop across town for Xmas dinner AND use the toilet inside if you get to 90%”
  They have been walking this back ever since. Sadly, I think a significant number of kiwis will be quite happy to keep the JAFAs locked away up here all summer.
  
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  October 23, 2021 1:35pm
- mawm
  
  These other communities should set up roadblocks and turn Aucklanders away. I wonder how long they are going to survive without the Auckland money?
  
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  October 23, 2021 1:46pm
- Inthe09
  
  Can you imagine the repercussions if Aucklanders can’t travel for Christmas? Having stuffed most of our small businesses and seen our kids miss months of school to then tell people they can’t see family and friends at Christmas. Big call.
  
  They might be quietly hoping COVID has spread far and wide by that point so it’s moot what part of NZ you live in.
  
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  October 23, 2021 2:56pm
dcrane

Herald pushing another covid-hell story from ICU.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-young-auckland-mums-vaccination-plea-after-life-threatening-battle/QSES33ZNNGVLCAY4RDE6NMK2YQ/

But there is also these data: Since 17 August we have recorded more than 2400 cases (including the ones coming from overseas). And just two deaths. Deaths do lag cases by some weeks. But if we get say 4 from the current tally, then that’s fewer than 2 deaths out of each 1000 cases.
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October 23, 2021 10:37am
- fernglas
  
  Although it’s glossed over in the story, the fact is that she was vaccinated while she already had the virus, and it may well be that this triggered the adverse reaction by overloading her system. There is no testing done before vaccination to see whether the recipient is currrently ill or has antibodies from previous infection, and this may be a contributor to many of the adverse events that occur after vaccination.
  
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  October 23, 2021 2:00pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yeah,
    that is a real worry..
    Everything I have read advises folks to delay their Covid vaccinations for at least 4 weeks after symptoms appear or a Covid +ve test is recorded.
    
    https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines/covid-19-vaccine-health-advice#:~:text=If%20you've%20had%20COVID,recover%20before%20getting%20the%20vaccine.
    
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    October 23, 2021 4:18pm
G152

What worries me is that if an unfriendly nation has been taking notes and has the technology to produce viruses what would stop them from using some of their people to spread such a virus throughout the world with the intent to enslave (or kill) the rest of humanity???
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October 23, 2021 10:47am
- emmess
  
  Do try to keep up
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh2Sj_QpZOA&list=WL&index=18
  
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  October 23, 2021 12:38pm
DeepBlue

I believe dodgy math and a one page chart will save us.

Soon FDA approval for 5 to 12 yo vaccination will be given. At that point JA will fiddle the 90% and there will be sufficient vaccinated and scared parents lining their children up for a shot to return to school. Voilà, a new very achievable 70% double vax target will be set across the eligible population. This will be much less than the current 90% hence the dodgy math.

Results:
. JA saves face, having reached world beating vax rate
. Vaxed parents will love JA
. Unvaxed will be able to move through society, no one will really care, as JA says it is all OK now
. Covid will still spread, but JA will move on, her new one pager, will show we are still world beating.
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October 23, 2021 10:48am
- Paulus
  
  And her sycophantic ladies will still love her because she is not male (- really).
  
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  October 23, 2021 2:35pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  JA may have to prove in Court her justification for tormenting 5 year olds.
  
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  October 23, 2021 5:42pm
Stu2

Hospitalisations have hit a high for this outbreak – 51. Early on they reached 43.

Oct 19 38
OCt 20 43
Oct 21 46
Oct 22 51

Day on day growth.

I wonder how many the Auckland hospitals can look after before they have to start moving away from their usual business and into covid mode.

The stories we will hear from anonymous medical staff will be far more on the money than Little and Bloomfield.
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October 23, 2021 10:50am
- DeepBlue
  
  Elective surgery, BAU, is already cancelled.
  
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  October 23, 2021 3:09pm
waripori

The Government has taken several months to work out a pathway out of lockdowns that is just about guaranteed to not work. Anyone not vaccinated outside Auckland or Waikato is better off under level 2 than they would be at an Orange light. Now they can do whatever anyone else is doing. Once we get to Orange they will be able to go from home to the Supermarket and that is about it. If you wanted to keep vax levels down this would be that approach you would take.Talk about perverse incentives.

The only sensible thing would have been to take National’s approach of going to level 2 everywhere on 1 December and opening the Auckland border.

That would have meant everyone except the seriously committed would have got the jab. We would have got to 90% easily.
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October 23, 2021 11:08am
Fletch

Lawyer Sue Grey asked the govt through an official OIA request what information they had on ivermectin as to why they wouldn’t consider it’s use – the answer? The govt has no info on it…

Ivermectin has a good safety profile, is approved for human use, is highly regarded by many doctors, has promising research results for protecting against Covid-19 yet is actively discouraged by the NZ Ministry of Health. When I asked a series of OIA questions about what information they have relied on to form these conclusions about Ivermectin they eventually replied they were unable to assist because they have no information.

http://suegrey.co.nz/index.php/2021/02/02/enhancing-immunity-alternatives-to-experimental-vaccines/

A copy of the letter is shown. As she says, this is simply not good enough. If they really cared about the health of NZers they would consider every option. Something else is going on…
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October 23, 2021 11:10am
- fernglas
  
  “We have no information” is Wellington-speak for “we have heard some really good gossip but no-one has bothered writing it down, or if they did , we can’t be bothered digging it out just to satisfy the curiosity of some upstart who dares question what we do”
  
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  October 23, 2021 2:04pm
- Vory v zakone
  
  It seems to have worked for this doctor…
  
  “My experience using ivermectin and fluvoxamine in 4000 acute COVID-19 patients: 5 hospitalized. 0 dead. 4000 recovered. 5 pharmacist threats. 1 medical board complaint. 1 lawyer retained. Hundreds of medication transfers for pharmacist refusals.”
  
  https://twitter.com/DrSyedHaider/status/1451285955743207427?t=dvHzEssoMRuB-X_r2MpnQw&s=19
  
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  October 23, 2021 4:41pm
- Sacha
  
  What is going on is that Pfizer cannot be granted EUA for its vaccine if there is already a successful treatment available.
  The MoH agreed to make Ivermectin unavailable so that Pfizer could do business here.
  MoH states on its website that Ivermectin has no usefulness as an antiviral.
  It lies.
  
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  October 23, 2021 9:23pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Check the fine print in the Pfizer contract. I have no doubt there will be some clauses in there restricting competition.
  
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  October 24, 2021 1:17am
Benedict Yu

So I’m driving around Christchurch this morning doing my Saturday errands

Jacinda comes on the radio and she says..

“I hope that Aucklanders can travel by Christmas. But we need to be careful. Other regions in New Zealand are saying to Auckland ‘We need a bit more time to get our vaccination rates up to 90 percent.’ So we need to keep that Auckland border closed for a bit longer so we can stamp out any COVID outbreaks.”

???????
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October 23, 2021 11:25am
- Cinematic
  
  The pathetic drivel that pours forth from that politician knows no bounds.
  
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  October 23, 2021 11:51am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Her words and vocal cadence reminds me of someone telling bed time stories to a three year old.
    
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    October 23, 2021 12:53pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Does she have bi-polar manic phases where her mouth rate exceeds her brain processing?
    
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    October 23, 2021 5:46pm
Lee C

I think it is fair to say that this collective pile-on – all instigated by Jacinda Ardern and Labour, and maintained and cheered on by the major political parties and their cup-bearers – has turned a huge swathe of the population into very angry, politicised activists.

And they are equally angry at every major political party for their compliance. It’s a bit like being in an occupied nation, under which your own government has surrendered to the invader.

Well done team.
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October 23, 2021 11:36am
- SilverSurfer
  
  Vichy France comes to mind.
  
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  October 23, 2021 12:03pm
Ehlana

So, the Government announced yesterday that we would be using some sort of vaccination certificate or passport. Naturally, no system is yet in place to issue these to the 2.9 million double dosed New Zealanders. Nor is there a delivery date.

Which means I doubt anyone has yet considered the practicalities of this. Is it a piece of paper? What’s to stop forgeries? Is it electronic? What about people without smart phones, or who forgot – either the phone, or to charge it?

How is this to be enforced? Will businesses have to carry the cost of big beefy security guards? Or will low wage store employees be abused (and possibly assaulted) by angry would-be customers?

On the bright side, I got a good laugh out of the various British farmers who seemed genuinely shocked that Jacinda could be so unkind to them in their FTA with us. Whatever is in the water over there, it must be the good stuff…
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October 23, 2021 11:55am
- Clownworld
  
  Ehlana and there was a report that FTA our most popular ever version of Biden got Borris to agree on that most pressing trade concern – cultural misappropriation of the haka. Not to be preformed by non-Maoris.
  
  On other hand to be consistent does this mean the English will do Morris dancing or the non-Maori in NZ banned from doing the primitive warrior dance too?
  
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  October 23, 2021 12:29pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  Whoah there…
  
  I saw the farmers being interviewed. They were not your everyday farming type but “artisinal” producers scared that their subsidy-cushioned lifestyle is being threatened
  
  Not just by NZ but because most of their product goes to France. Welsh salt-marsh lamb is by far the best in the world and every last bit goes to France. Same with Scottish cold-water seafood
  
  Big UK sheep farmers have very little to fear from NZ
  
  7 1
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  October 23, 2021 12:55pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The WEF have the vaccine passport scheme all figured out.
  
  1 1
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  October 23, 2021 5:48pm
Frank the tank

C’mon he was leading the charge that Trump eats babies for breakfast, his wife is an english lass that fakes a Spanish; and otherwise a poster child of the left.

Karmas a bitch
11 1
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October 23, 2021 11:57am
Alan Wilkinson

There is no way Northland will get to 90% so the whole tourism sector here dies.
17 0
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October 23, 2021 12:01pm
Lee C

There is a deadly virus running out of control in New Zealand and it is killing us…
14 0
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October 23, 2021 12:11pm
- dcrane
  
  The mind virus of safety-ism
  
  9 1
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  October 23, 2021 12:50pm
- JibberJabber
  
  Yes, the sooner it fucks off to the UN the better for NZ.
  
  15 0
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  October 23, 2021 1:00pm
rockape

Happy birthday to me and oh by the way confirmed COVID case in NMDHB at Blenheim.
9 0
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October 23, 2021 12:15pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Could it be a false positive?
  How many cycles in the PCR amplification phase of the “test”?
  Any symptoms?
  
  8 0
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  October 23, 2021 12:39pm
  - rockape
    
    Mild symptoms and weak positive.
    
    7 0
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    October 23, 2021 1:33pm
kevn

@Lee C… It is called ‘government’.
They are the problem.
12 0
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October 23, 2021 12:16pm
surfing

“When approached by Newstalk ZB on Friday night, the Ministry of Health said it wouldn’t provide any comment until 1pm today.”

So, covid is in Blenheim and the moh are playing silly buggers, this condescending arrogance towards the people they are supposed to serve really irritates me.

Worse than little children with their secrets.
23 1
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October 23, 2021 12:20pm
- Fletch
  
  We knew this was coming. I said about a week ago that a case would turn up in the South Island, then Stewart Island, etc. It all seems planned, to me, to get vax numbers up. It was predictable.
  
  16 2
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  October 23, 2021 1:55pm
oldfella

Just talked to a close friend in Auckland whose wife has been bumped off the North Shore Hospital orthopaedic list. No chance of surgery this year, and no sign on anything next year as the hospital ramps up preparation for the expected flood of Covid patients.
27 1
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October 23, 2021 12:24pm
- surfing
  
  I have a relative at auckland hospital whose department bumped a bunch of white people from a waiting list and replaced them with maori. Then the problem was that the maori were not turning up, leaving expensive medical equipment and staff unutilised.
  
  I wonder if your close friend was bumped because they are not maori or because of covid.
  
  22 1
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  October 23, 2021 1:57pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Why shouldn’t existing cases take priority?
  
  6 1
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  October 23, 2021 5:51pm
WaveyDavey

Anyone else glad that Covid’s reached the “mainland”

Now they might just STFU

BTW I was surprised to find out: https://www.odt.co.nz/news/decision-2020/labour-wins-party-vote-every-south-island-electorate
12 2
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October 23, 2021 12:35pm
- H. Upmann
  
  WD: no surprises at all regarding SI party vote. The sheep will vote this corrupt government for two more terms.
  
  10 1
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  October 23, 2021 1:06pm
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Yep, for sure
    
    2023: L
    2026: L+G/MP
    2027: 16+ get the vote
    2029: Left mega coalition – Labour in charge
    
    In perpetuity
    
    6 0
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    October 23, 2021 2:44pm
    - septic skeptic
      
      If that happens I certainly won’t be here to vote against them in 29, probably not even in 26
      
      8 0
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      October 23, 2021 3:36pm
      - WaveyDavey
        
        Currently waiting for our elderly cat and M-i-L to cark it and we’re off
        
        8 0
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        October 23, 2021 3:48pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I guess all those guns that fell off the boat in an accident will be found ….
      
      3 2
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      October 23, 2021 3:53pm
Nickc2

Did I hear Jack Tame on Talkback ZB (around 11:00) this morning say all lockdowns were political?

I was doing some domestics at the time and wasn’t paying too much attention to the radio but I’m sure that’s what I heard.

Iv’e always had him in lockstep with Cindy and her Green off-shoots. If true, I still can’t believe he’s turned. What say you??
16 1
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October 23, 2021 1:04pm
- Twinkletoes
  
  You heard correctly, I could hardly believe it either.
  
  13 0
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  October 23, 2021 3:35pm
Ditch the Bitch

New meaning for JAFA

Jacinda Adern F**ked Auckland
25 3
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October 23, 2021 1:07pm
Cinematic

How’s Hendy’s 1,000 cases looking?
8 3
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October 23, 2021 1:25pm
- nathie
  
  Might have been swept under that 80,000 cases carpet?
  
  10 0
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  October 23, 2021 2:00pm
- fernglas
  
  Pretty conservative?
  
  7 0
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  October 23, 2021 2:06pm
Fletch

Stuff have a slider about halfway down the page, asking people’s opinion how they feel about the new traffic light system. At the time of this posting,

Really angry and confused (38%) 4,256
Pretty frustrated (14%)
A bit unsure (7%)
Neutral (7%)
A little bit hopeful (8%)
Pretty optimistic (9%)
Really happy and supportive (18%) 2,022 people

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300437001/covid19-104-new-cases-as-delta-outbreak-spreads-in-northland-enters-south-island
15 1
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October 23, 2021 2:00pm
geodon

It’s getting heated in the covid response bunker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTpXUMl7Stw
11 0
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October 23, 2021 2:01pm
- dcrane
  
  That was brilliant!
  
  2 0
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  October 23, 2021 8:32pm
Rusty

So a small earthquake/tremor occurred when Jacinda was giving her speech yesterday?

Wellington is on a fault line and tremors happen all the time — so there is a logical explanation for them occurring at anytime right?

What if they ramp up every time Jacinda gives a negative speech on reducing our personal and religious freedoms?

Only christians will know what I’m talking about.
9 4
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October 23, 2021 2:01pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Those sorts of delusions are not exclusive to Christians.
  
  4 11
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  October 23, 2021 2:33pm
- tf78
  
  Compliments of Winston, it arrived four years ago. RIP Aotearoa.
  
  New Zealand will be back!!!!!!
  
  1 1
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  October 23, 2021 8:47pm
Truman lodge

This has become too much now! On what Authority do they have to lock us down indefinitely and issue vaccine passports and a papers please traffic light system.

I know they are the govt and elected but seriously this needs to be put to the people in an early election or referendum or something. This is too much a big step to be just accepted. Can’t we challenge this legally or something? Or under parliament supremacy is that not really possible?
19 2
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October 23, 2021 2:13pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  You could try a legal challenge, if you can think of a law the government has not observed in making its decisions. Some of the country’s ~~finest~~ legal minds have been known to comment on Kiwiblog, so it’s not impossible one of them might have some guidance.
  
  5 8
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  October 23, 2021 2:36pm
  - Truman lodge
    
    It’s really my frustration with the system. They can legally do it. But it wasn’t in their campaign manifesto.. Neither was three waters. Under Westminster I guess they can do what they like. However this does deserve more public scrutiny and say. I mean if they wanted to pass a law putting me in jail for no reason is that legal? I think it is under our system. In America the supreme Court could protect me.
    
    8 2
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    October 23, 2021 3:55pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      In America, the supreme court is more likely to frustrate the will of the people’s representatives than to uphold it. Likewise with its chance of protecting individuals against the government or powerful interests.
      
      1 1
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      October 23, 2021 5:33pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The more they codify their practices the more open they are to challenge. Administrative decisions become possible to query and to seek both clarifications and proof of legality.
  The Ombudsman could be busy and the High Court. Other Courts like Labour relations may be useful too.
  
  3 3
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  October 23, 2021 5:57pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    The ombudsman is always busy, as is the high court, and the employment court. I look forward to you bringing your specific complaints to any of the processes available, although I seem to recall you are leaning in favour of extra-constitutional solutions to the problems you imagine.
    
    3 2
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    October 23, 2021 6:37pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Gosh, ‘The Guardian” publishes a piece of NZ satire on Auckland’s rulebreakers.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2021/oct/22/aucklands-lockdown-has-finally-given-me-what-i-always-wanted-a-licence-to-pry
11 0
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October 23, 2021 2:28pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  I read that and couldn’t believe anyone could get paid for such garbage
  
  The concept is bad enough but the writing is dreadful
  
  7 0
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  October 23, 2021 3:00pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The final Covid variant will be called ‘communism’
That will be when NZ is totally fucked
18 2
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October 23, 2021 2:29pm
- H. Upmann
  
  Probably as soon as next month Steve.
  
  8 0
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  October 23, 2021 3:00pm
- Fletch
  
  It’s here already.
  
  10 1
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  October 23, 2021 3:48pm
  - tf78
    
    Compliments of Winston, it arrived four years ago. RIP Aotearoa.
    
    New Zealand will be back!!!!!!
    
    1 1
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    October 23, 2021 8:20pm
Nickc2

A requiem for a Labor Govt or is it Akld’s future?
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2021/10/a-requiem-for-melbourne-tragic-to-watch.html
4 1
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October 23, 2021 2:40pm
In Vino Veritas

Did anyone have the similar misfortune to watch Biden’s town hall with Anderson Cooper on CNN? Not that anyone should really be surprised, but holy shite, at one point, he stood there with his arms at 90 degrees and his fists clenching. It was really weird. Other highlights: the whispering thing, the thumb and forefinger OK|zero tax thing over his eye when whispering, total memory blanks, “what am I doing here”. He was dug out of holes by Cooper several times. He really is barely compos. And the clown gets to look after the free world. Sheesh.
20 2
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October 23, 2021 2:54pm
WaveyDavey

Numbers time…

At the current rate (but it’s slowing) we are on track to hit 90% in 55+ days

On or well after Dec 18 – 3 weeks after the Nov 29 announcement
7 0
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October 23, 2021 3:12pm
WaveyDavey

More numbers

Counties Manukau is 14,437 short of hitting 90% 1st doses. Auckland and Waitamata have hit 90%

Number of Maori in CM who have not received a single jab = 13,067
4 1
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October 23, 2021 3:22pm
- KH
  
  Maori are letting the team down.
  
  3 5
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  October 23, 2021 3:58pm
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Time to leave them behind and get the shortfall from other communities
    
    Maori have been bribed and pandered to for long enough
    
    4 0
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    October 23, 2021 5:41pm
- MCos
  
  62,714 people as up in the Counties Manukau DHB catchment have not received a single dose.
  BTW
  Destiny Church, which is an anti-vax organization located deep in the heart of this DHB, probably accounts for a certain number of the hold outs.
  
  4 4
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  October 23, 2021 4:24pm
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Which other demographic’s community leaders are calling for locking down until their specific community reaches 90%?
    
    I’ll wait…
    
    But yeah, let’s get the 14k we need from the PI & other non-Maori, I’m all for it.
    
    Forget pandering, paying and cosseting Maori and let’s get out there and take the others to vaccination stations, maybe even pay them
    
    Why waste more time and money on a non-responsive group? Go for a more receptive target group
    
    Let CM Maori stew in a mess of their own making
    
    I’m all for it, as you seem to be
    
    1 0
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    October 23, 2021 5:40pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Biden wants to sack the police who refuse to be jabbed. He is a lacking in empathy as Cindy.
    
    Biden staff ‘lack empathy’: Ortagus
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEnpEKt1158
    
    1 3
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    October 23, 2021 7:43pm
- Stu2
  
  If you substract the Maori and Pacific numbers from everyone you can get the rate for the rest of the population.
  
  These are the first dose percentages of those eligible in Counties Manuaku
  
  Maori – 69.4%
  Pacific – 80,2%
  The rest – 93.3%
  
  The number of unvaccinated are :
  Maori – 19,411
  Pacific – 23,025
  The rest – 20,278
  
  Only 69.4% in a area with booming cases tells you something about the high Maori case count.
  
  Davey – the number you reported is the number of Maori vaxxes needed to get Maori to 90%, not the number unvaccinated
  
  4 0
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  October 23, 2021 6:00pm
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Oops you’re correct. It’s even worse than I said
    Although the 19,411 doesn’t have to be Maori of course
    
    Plenty of PI to go for and they’re probably more amenable – find 14,000 unvaccinated and offer them $1,000 each – money well spent
    
    Time to put Maori intransigence behind us and move on to another demographic
    
    0 0
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    October 23, 2021 7:16pm
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Again, I beg your pardon, the 14,437 don’t have to be Maori just CM DHB residents
      
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      October 23, 2021 7:31pm
greybeard

“Breaking news: reported South Island CV-19 occurrence judged to be deliberate attempt by government to engender fear and loathing and panic in all South Island communities, and to promote North vs South split.
( Like the American Civil War, but down here in the South Pacific.)
Divide and Conquer: now who was it that said that ?
7 5
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October 23, 2021 4:04pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The North/South split could be revived. I’m sure Ngai Tahu would join with that too.
  
  2 3
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  October 23, 2021 6:02pm
BananaLlama

I will not be getting a third booster shot or even bothering to get their stupid vaccination passport. I have done my part now the government can do theirs and gtfo of my life.
You hear that? Get out of my life Jacinda you are the bad relationship i never asked for and i want a divorce from you.
Go to your fisherman and enjoy your boring life with him that will never be as exciting as controlling mine.
21 3
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October 23, 2021 4:26pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  He can’t fish, all skite, bull shitter. Jethro is a fake.
  Hey bullshite works with the media
  
  6 2
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  October 23, 2021 5:17pm
RW Capitalist

Impertinent question.
Are face masks the new single use plastic bags?
9 2
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October 23, 2021 5:18pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Yes. 3 million disposed of every HOUR across the globe.
  
  6 2
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  October 23, 2021 7:22pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/300436953/mongols-bikie-gang-associate-dies-in-motorcycle-crash-near-christchurch
Oh dear.
How sad.
Never mind.
11 1
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October 23, 2021 5:50pm
- cmm
  
  ” On Saturday, Smith’s partner posted a tribute on social media, describing him as “the most amazing dad” and “our rock”.”
  
  There are some very strange people in the world.
  
  5 1
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  October 23, 2021 6:22pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  Another mass funeral for NZ police to ignore then?
  
  0 0
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  October 23, 2021 10:27pm
Scooter

Interesting audio interview on Newstalk between Jack Lame opps Tame and Hannah McQueen (don’t know who she is) but she rips to shreds the traffic light system, calling it a dogs breakfast. All Tame can say is sarcastically “tell us how you really feel”. Maybe when some of these media whores are still locked down after Xmas they might start holding Jacinda & Co to account.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/24837978/?keyid%5B0%5D=Saturday%20Morning%20with%20Jack%20Tame&keyid%5B1%5D=Hannah%20McQueen%3A%20Enable%20Me%20Founder%20says%20Government%27s%20announcement%20was%20a%20%27dogs%20breakfast%27&sc=podcast_widget
13 1
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October 23, 2021 5:52pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Hannah McQueen
  http://www.allenandunwin.co.nz/authors/m/hannah-mcqueen
  
  4 0
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  October 23, 2021 6:52pm
- tf78
  
  Yes, I accidentally tuned in when I was gardening – I thought she must be Prue McQueen (from sky Aussie’s) relly. Wonderful!
  
  2 1
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  October 23, 2021 8:18pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  They don’t give a shit. This “crisis” gives them easy copy to dribble about. They get paid the same working from Ponsonby as they do going into the city while watching the value of their million dollar dog box increase weekly as they genuinely believe they are “successful”. Useless eaters comes to mind.
  
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  October 24, 2021 12:59am
Chuck Bird

I bet if that happened her the woke Police Commissioner would be telling him he was foolhardy and if the guy was badly injured of died he would have been charged.

Marine speaks out after fighting off gas station robbery attempt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S70WoTKHCGc
1 2
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October 23, 2021 7:14pm
ABS4EVA

If you are in Lock Down in Apartheid Aotearoa

I highly recommend for your SANITY

The Mandalorian Series on NETFLIX

JESUS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33XZb3HFGyY

Jake does some Good Acting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQU6eTX5qjc

SCI FI Dirty Harry

It is FANTASTIC
0 1
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October 23, 2021 7:26pm
fernglas

If businesses will not be allowed to access Covid support payments if they don’t have a vaccine mandate, will workers who lose their jobs because they refuse to be vaccinated be unable to access benefits?
7 0
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October 23, 2021 7:45pm

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