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November 9, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 09 November 2021

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General Debate

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Warren

While Jacinda Ardern continues in her Quest to divide New Zealander’s and create two different classes of residents in our Country she is about to up the pressure.
Life could be about to get harder for the unvaccinated.
The 90% target for each DHB could be scrapped in favour of the traffic light system to put more pressure on the unvaccinated writes Political Editor Jo Moir.
Just a week ago the Prime Minister was relying on the unvaccinated wanting to go to Summer Festivals or Restaurants to get them across the line and into a Clinic,
but as vaccination rates continue to dwindle, it’s becoming clear that the message is not being recieved by those living a fairly normal level 2 life in Regional New Zealand.
On Monday Jacinda Ardern our Prime Minister told Newsroom she and her Cabinet Colleagues are keeping in the ” back of our minds whether or not the framework itself could help us continue with vaccines “.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/life-could-be-about-to-get-harder-for-unvaccinated
While the threat of the traffic light system, and the two classes it creates has prompted some to be hesitant to get vaccinated it hasn’t caught the attention of everyone.
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November 9, 2021 8:00am
- k1w1
  
  She wants to save as many lives as possible, which for the 5-9% that simply refuse to have it, is in her eyes, saving them from themselves. I find it fascinating that the anti’s are from every walk of life. It seems to have split the vote on this site of right-leaners, for example. Similarly on the left.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:31am
  - Mrs_Right
    
    Why would a young person without any underlying health issues want the vaccine? Look at the stats. Those people have a higher chance of dying from the flu.
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:39am
    - k1w1
      
      Perhaps the young person has elderly grandparents that they spend time with and don’t want to unnecessarily risk their lives. Doesn’t matter the grandparents are vaxxed – if the viral load from the young person is significantly higher them being unvaxxed, it’s added risk of the gp catching it.
      
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      November 9, 2021 9:11am
      - NoFax
        
        You know everyone will get Covid at some stage and the vaxed can pass it on too? The research seems to suggest that about 9 months it makes no difference when passing it on so I am unsure why it would make a difference.
        
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        November 9, 2021 9:51am
      - alloytoo
        
        The science suggests that the viral load of said young person will be the same irrespective of their Vax status.
        
        If anything their vaxed status might make them complacent about visiting their vulnerable relatives while obviously ill.
        
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        November 9, 2021 9:56am
      - Mrs_Right
        
        Many new studies show no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and un-vaccinated people who tested positive for the Delta variant unfortunately.
        
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        November 9, 2021 9:57am
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        Kiwi, the viral load carried by vaccinated and unvaccinated is not significantly different (so says University of California, Davis, Genome Center, UC San Francisco and the Chan Zuckerberg Biohub). So Grandma and Grandpa have pretty much the same chance of copping the virus for vaccinated grandchildren as unvaccinated.
        The idea that unvaccinated are going to do more harm to the vaccinated than vaccinated people do, is just fear-mongering. And is what the Labour Government are pitching. The issue is, Labour have done absolutely zero about our ICU facilities, and their staffing. People are going to die and you know that Ardern will not be happy about having that on her CV. As the most caring PM ever in the history of the world.
        
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        November 9, 2021 10:10am
      - Ed Snack
        
        And if they don’t, or if they realise that being Vaxxed is no defence against catching and passing on the virus, what then, still legit to coerce them illegally into having a a vine that is actually dangerous to them ? You think it is acceptable to risk a, say, 16 yer old’s life to marginally reduce the risk on a 90 year old ?
        
        Do you think your values are somewhat skewed ?
        
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        November 9, 2021 10:31am
      - simian
        
        “They absolutely do reduce transmission,” says Christopher Byron Brooke at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. “Vaccinated people do transmit the virus in some cases, but the data are super crystal-clear that the risk of transmission for a vaccinated individual is much, much lower than for an unvaccinated individual.”
        
        A recent study found that vaccinated people infected with the delta variant are 63 per cent less likely to infect people who are unvaccinated. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.10.14.21264959v1
        
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        November 9, 2021 2:34pm
      - miltonF
        
        Ok I’ll point out the obvious. Why aren’t the elderly grandparents vaccinated? Or do you think the vaccine doesn’t work? In which case explain the purpose of vaccinating to protect someone else with a vaccine which doesn’t work?
        
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        November 9, 2021 3:28pm
      - dcrane
        
        So the grandparents, presumably vaccinated, want to unnecessarily risk the lives of the children – to further save themselves? This seems upside down.
        
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        November 9, 2021 3:39pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Jesus H Christ man, how do you find the courage to get out of bed every day? Cross the road? You’re having a laugh!
        
        Best to stay in the basement with the covers over your head, can’t be doing with all this “living” palaver.
        
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        November 9, 2021 4:53pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    She wants to save as many lives as possible. Sure. And where is the line drawn. Can we include alcoholics on the digital passport so they can’t swipe into pubs so Jacinda can save them. And put your bmi on the digital passport so Jacinda can save us from sugar and ourselves. And why are we doing drug tents can Jacinda not save them as well.
    And can we stop selling cigarettes Boating is NZ’s most dangerous sport. This should be stopped. How much do you want to outsource your decisions to the government so they can save you. Covid makes up a small fraction of the respiratory deaths even during a covid case outbreak.
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:44am
    - amospicton
      
      She does not want to save as many people as possible. If true we’d all be in Level 4. The govt would have told people to lose weight. She’d have banned driving. She’d have done something re suicide and have banned swimming. Let’s be clear – she wants to be popular. There’s nothing more to it than that.
      
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      November 9, 2021 9:05am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        banned swimming
        
        Not too many Covid-19 viruses floating around in the salty Ocean or in chlorinated pools.
        
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        November 9, 2021 9:29am
      - alloytoo
        
        @Maggie
        
        “banned swimming
        
        Not too many Covid-19 viruses floating around in the salty Ocean or in chlorinated pools.”
        
        I could not understand why public baths were closed when we use chlorine precisely because it kills bugs.
        
        Close change rooms perhaps and force people to drive home with damp seats (as if they had gone to the beach)
        
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        November 9, 2021 10:00am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Maggie, but lots of people drown every year is the point.if swimming was banned and the ban enforced, those lives would not be lost, hence if you really want to save lives, dangerous activities like swimming would be outlawed for safety reasons. Ban swimming pools also, and boats, fence off rivers and lakes,…
        
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        November 9, 2021 10:34am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Stupid argument, none of the things you are raising as comparable to Covid are a death threatening pandemic.
      
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      November 9, 2021 10:00am
      - alloytoo
        
        Neither is Covid when compared to previous pandemics.
        
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        November 9, 2021 10:01am
      - Surely Knott
        
        Disagree, Check the Australian statistics. The highest covid deaths per day was 59 deaths on Sept 4 2020 following a peak of 715 cases.
        
        When we look at the bigger picture, Average weekly deaths in that week 6 sept (including those covid deaths) were Expected Average 2015-2019 = 3029 deaths, Actual 2020 = 2893. Despite the terrifying media headlines mortality was well below average.
        
        And specifically respiratory deaths for that week 37 during that outbreak:
        Expected Average deaths for 2015-2019 = 372,
        and Actual 2020 deaths is 255 plus the 59 covid deaths = 314 respiratory deaths. So less respiratory deaths.
        
        Pneumonia deaths is the same. Expected 65. Actual 44.
        
        https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/latest-release
        
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        November 9, 2021 10:45am
      - Fletch
        
        Surely, at first I was startled by the graph there, which makes it look like many, many more deaths this year and out of the average, until I check the scale on the side and see that it goes up per hundred. So it’s zoomed way in to make it look worse than it is. And, in fact, most of June and July are within the average. It will be interesting to see more recent data. If the vaccines are working, shouldn’t the deaths be less than last year and falling?
        
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        November 9, 2021 11:55am
      - hullkiwi
        
        Brian, winter flu use to kill more people in NZ and globally, than the death of people who are are already seriously ill and then catch Covid.
        
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        November 9, 2021 12:55pm
    - Akarak
      
      And this today from the Herald’s Department of Useless Information:
      I don’t have a smartphone. Am I locked out of the scheme?
      You can access the My Covid Record site on a computer. Or a tablet. Probably even on some smart fridges.
      ‘”I don’t have a smartphone but I do have this smart fridge. Do you have somewhere I can leave it while I’m dining?”
      
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      November 9, 2021 5:14pm
  - Fishing in the dark
    
    just switch on your brain.
    These deaths cost the country an awful lot of money, a split society, democracy ruined, country driven into bankruptcy.
    We are talking here about $3 billion dollars per deaths (so called Covid death).
    And many deaths we have saved, that’s even not debatable, that’s only according to this modellers (3rd grade scientists).
    
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    November 9, 2021 11:07am
- RightNow
  
  There’s been 4 Covid deaths in NZ in the last week, given the lack of reporting about them I’m guessing they were all vaccinated.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:48am
  - Flossie
    
    It’s not even determined yet if these deaths were caused by covid.
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:38am
    - RightNow
      
      Well they made it into the Worldometer stats for NZ.
      What do you think makes them any different from the first 28 deaths?
      
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      November 9, 2021 1:54pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      That’s why we aren’t hearing about it.
      
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      November 9, 2021 2:10pm
  - bennerg
    
    RightNow, the one who died in Auckland hospital was admitted for “trauma”. Just happened to have Covid-19.
    
    The whole logic being applied is like saying because more right-handed people have Covid, that they will be treated differently to left handed.
    
    As we know handednesss has nothing to do with the effect Covid-19 has on you, so that is logiv ridiculous.
    
    In the same way, being vaccinated with the mRNA vaccines does not “innoculate” you against it, nor stop you transmitting it.
    
    What people have come to realise is that Covid-19 is not like a shooter in a mall killing indiscriminately. It kills / affects only those who are immunosuppressed, and mainly older people. It appears age profiles in deaths have not changed much since Covid hit.
    
    So the 0.2% who die from Covid are the ones who would otherwise likely die of other causes anyway. The increased infectiousness of the strain is only making the inevitable happen a little sooner for those in that category only.
    
    For everyone else life will go on as normal, and maybe have an inconvenient few days.
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:54am
    - RightNow
      
      Exactly!
      Which is why mandating the “vaccine” is abhorrent.
      
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      November 9, 2021 11:28am
  - krazykiwi
    
    The lack of reporting makes me curious too.
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:04am
    - RightNow
      
      $110 million well spent
      
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      November 9, 2021 10:06am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Over $300 million. Don’t forget the ongoing advertising budget!
        
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        November 9, 2021 2:06pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      If they were unjabbed it would have been the headline in every media outlet. It would have been used as more fear porn to try and get another dozen or so to get the jab. The whole thing is political, nothing to do with health. Otherwise all of this information would be in the public domain.
      
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      November 9, 2021 10:57am
  - Ed Snack
    
    To be fair, one is a likely vaccine mediated death but the others are quite likely in the “with not of” basket.
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:35am
    - Trev
      
      Such stats used to be counted as “from” Covid. Now the scare phase is over do the government now not want such cases attributed to Covid as it makes their Delta management look bad?
      
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      November 9, 2021 10:54am
    - RightNow
      
      Quite likely all of our “Covid” deaths are in the “with not of” basket.
      An OIA request turned up information that 5 of the first 22 “Covid” deaths in NZ didn’t even test positive for Covid.
      
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      November 9, 2021 1:51pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    It has always been about narrative control and it was never about health. That’s why she declared that her and her team of $55 million would be our “single source of truth”.
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:53am
- krazykiwi
  
  The state is manufacturing an underclass that is increasingly vilified and denied basic human rights.
  
  Remind me of a time in history when that has ended well?
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:48am
  - John Pakes
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    You are still living in a land of fantasy Kiwi.
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:40am
    - amospicton
      
      Is it ‘kind’ John? Is it governing for ‘all kiwis’? Or is it a cynical attempt to deflect blame? The management of delta, like everything this poor excuse for a government has touched is an unmitigated disaster. They need someone to blame and the 10% who have exercised their own choice are expendable and have to carry the can. Just great.
      
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      November 9, 2021 9:52am
  - Random T Person
    
    Look at the bright side KK, we’re back to discriminating against Maori and PIs and now it’s state sanctioned.
    Just in case anyone didn’t notice, I am being facetious.
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:49am
- John Pakes
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  There is no Quest to divide New Zealand. Ardern is simply doing her job, governance, which is the responsibility of all Prime Ministers. And Regional New Zealand is right behind her as those who have been harder to reach come on board.
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:38am
  - amospicton
    
    Just about everything they do creates division. Auckland/not Auckland, VAxx/Unvaxx, rural/urban, Maori/unMaori, climate change, water, health. Absolutely everything. This country has never felt so angry and divided. Is that due to the 9 long years of neglect too?
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:54am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Rubbish, it is illegal to coerce medical treatment, and the fascists in the current government have forgotten their commitment to rule according to the law.
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:36am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Tell you what John – we’ll lock Rotovegas down for 3 months and see how you cope.
    
    That is simply the most arrogant post I have read on this blog.
    
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    November 9, 2021 11:27am
  - Observer of Life
    
    JPakes: “ Ardern is simply doing her job, governance, which is the responsibility of all Prime Ministers”.
    So why didn’t they move to improve our hospitals 12-18 months ago? Up our ICU capacity? Instead we have less ICU beds now than 18 months ago.
    
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    November 9, 2021 11:30am
  - igm
    
    More like realising what f/wits they were and jumping oveboard.
    
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    November 9, 2021 12:07pm
krazykiwi

I see that from 14th December Air New Zealand will only allow three types of people on their aircraft… in the name of keeping everyone safe: –
1. The unvaccinated who are uninfected
2. The vaccinated who are uninfected
3. The vaccinated who are infected.
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November 9, 2021 8:00am
- Yvette
  
  Krazykiwi
  Is that so “3. The vaccinated who are infected” can infect “1. The unvaccinated who are uninfected” or even “2. The vaccinated who are uninfected”?
  
  Rumsfeld could not explain it more clearly :o)
  
  Oops! Donald Henry Rumsfeld (July 9, 1932 – June 29, 2021)
  But I am still right …
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:05am
  - Surely Knott
    
    Hopefully they will have an un-vaccinated only area. Because those will be the only ones who have been tested. And Jacinda says we deserve the assurance of being around others like us.
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:45am
    - Rich Prick
      
      Those areas used to be called colonies.
      
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      November 9, 2021 9:05am
- dcrane
  
  Is this domestic-only? I thought the must-be-vaxxed rule for international begins in February?
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:08am
- kowtow
  
  A cynical little ploy by the majority shareholder ,timed just before Christmas, to get the owners other targets looking good.
  
  I wonder if there’s a corporate conflict of interest issue there .
  
  No point moaning as the Media pardy ,they whose duty it is to hold power to account, will be applauding .
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:13am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Yes and there is no way to distinguish between 2 and 3.?
  
  I’ve stopped telling vaccinated people they will get COVID. But I was having lunch with a friend on Sunday. She was going on about the dangers of the unvaccinated. I told her about the evidence about rapidly degrading effectiveness against infection. And I saw her eyes kind of glaze over and I could see she was getting angry. This is what we are dealing with. If a government lies long enough it becomes the truth.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:13am
  - MCos
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Maybe you should change the subject while you still have some friends.
    Everyone’s heard everything they want to hear from laypeople in the field.
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:29am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Benedict is better qualified, better read and more expert on this than most official sources (that have mostly proven themselves politically compromised or incompetent).
      
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      November 9, 2021 8:37am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        The official sources are there to continue spreading the lies. BY has much more clout than them
        
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        November 9, 2021 9:09am
    - Andrei
      
      Fixed it for ya MCos
      
      Maybe you should change the subject while you still have some friends.
      Everyone’s heard everything they want to hear from ~~laypeople~~ “experts™” in the field.
      
      Everybody is actually sick of this shit, the doom the gloom, the charts and tables and the shroud counting…
      
      We’ve got lives to lead
      
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      November 9, 2021 8:42am
    - Ed Snack
      
      So you support misinformation and official lies, interesting position to take, but there you are.
      
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      November 9, 2021 10:38am
  - bronny1
    
    Had a similar conversation where my friends said but the government is doing a good job of keeping us safe. Intelligent, educated people.
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:31am
    - kowtow
      
      They might be educated ( and what does that mean these days anyway)but they sure ain’t intelligent .
      
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      November 9, 2021 8:47am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      There are two sorts of people in the world, those who think the government is working in their best interests, and those who think.
      
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      November 9, 2021 12:50pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Time to change your friends bronny.
      
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      November 9, 2021 1:59pm
  - mawm
    
    It’s easier to con a person than to convince them they have been conned.
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:32am
    - thirteenstars
      
      Indeed.
      
      And Kiwis are stubborn brutes. Once they get hold of that ounce of wisdom, no matter how dubious, they cling to it like a rotting tree trunk in a stormy sea.
      
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      November 9, 2021 8:55am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      And the bigger the con the less they want to admit they might have got it wrong.
      
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      November 9, 2021 11:03am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep,
    I’ve given up explaining to folks (friends and rellies) why I have delayed being vaxxed until I know overseas travel is on the cards and I don’t have to pay for a 2 week Quarantine in a virus-incubator back in NZ.
    
    I suspect in a year or two, we will all realise that our 2 years of lockdowns and forced vaccinations have achieved little..
    
    but I’m sure the true believers will have swallowed some spin about how they would have been even sicker or died earlier if they hadn’t been Pfizer vaxxed.
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:48am
    - oldfella
      
      Maggy, it will all be explained one day by Sir Shaun Hendy in his autobiography, ‘Hendy Man: How Jacinda And I Saved 80,000 Lives’.
      
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      November 9, 2021 11:33am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Some more evidence on vaccine efficacy.
    
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02183-8/fulltext
    
    The research in Israel I reported a couple of months ago showed protection against infection declining to about 40 percent after 8 months. This new study in the Lancet concludes that vaccine efficacy declines to 50 percent after only 4 months – this is Pfizer. Again, protection against hospitalisation and serious illness holds up well.
    
    This is a huge study – n = 4,920,549 and it is a peer reviewed study.
    
    The degradation after 4 months is unlikely to follow a straight line. However, it is now clear that after, say, 12 months the vaccinated will be almost as likely to contract the virus as the unvaccinated.
    The evidence is incontrovertible. Unless we all have boosters (perhaps forever) this invalidates the whole concept of a vaccine certificate.
    
    Eventually truth and science will win out. It will become obvious in 12 months that the vaccinated are spreading the infection. How will people react when they realise they have been lied to?
    
    Where will it end? Probably when most people in New Zealand have been exposed to the virus and acquired natural immunity. The whole edifice will come crashing down.
    
    The irony is that on Air New Zealand planes, the only safe passengers will be the unvaccinated who have had a negative COVID test.
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:38am
    - krazykiwi
      
      The attenuation rate differs by cohort. The elderly, males and those with comorbidities experience more rapid decline in both protection from infections and protection from severe illness.
      
      The recent 9-month Swedish study of 1.4m people showed protection from infection tuning negative for some cohorts, again those most innately at risk.
      
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      November 9, 2021 9:44am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Did you see Peter Doshi’s presentation? Associate editor of the British Medical Journal and a PhD.
      Asking the questions that should have been asked 18 months ago.
      
      Part of his talk.
      
      ‘I found it fascinating to learn that Merriam-Webster changed its definition of “vaccine” early this year. mRNA products did not meet the definition of “vaccine” that has been in place for 15 years in Merriam-Webster, but the definition was expanded such that mRNA products are now vaccines.’
      
      ‘How would you feel about mandating Covid vaccines if we didn’t call them vaccines? What if these injections were called “drugs” instead?’
      
      ‘Would you take a dose of this drug every six months or so for possibly the rest of your life?’
      
      ‘Would you not just take this drug yourself, but support regulations mandating that everybody else around you take this drug?’
      
      ‘The trials did not show a reduction in death.’
      
      ‘My point is not that I know the truth about what the vaccine can and cannot do, my point is that those who claimed the trials showed the vaccines were highly effective in saving lives were wrong. The trials did not demonstrate this.’
      
      https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/where-has-bmj-editor-peter-doshi-a-vaccine-sceptic-been-hiding-until-now/
      
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      November 9, 2021 11:19am
      - krazykiwi
        
        Yes. A sane, reasoned testimony from a eminently credentialed individual. He makes more sense in 5.5 minutes than has our PM in all her utterances combined.
        
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        November 9, 2021 12:39pm
    - k1w1
      
      Longevity of said efficacy aside, what at the stats of people in serious condition in hospital in the UK? How many vaxxed and how many not?
      
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      November 9, 2021 12:36pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        This is a month old, but in all groups over 30 there are more jabbed than unjabbed in hospital in the UK.
        
        https://newsrescue.com/uk-cov2-infection-rates-among-the-fully-vaccinated-are-now-higher-than-those-of-the-unvaccinated-in-all-age-cohorts-%E2%89%A530/
        
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        November 9, 2021 1:56pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        And this analysis of the data seems pretty sound. It’s about why the US stats are out of whack with every country in the world.
        
        https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/why-does-us-data-for-deaths-and-hospitalization?
        
        And another explaining why the rise in cases among the vaccinated.
        
        https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/what-explains-rising-cases-among-the-vaccinated
        
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        November 9, 2021 2:02pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Your question isn’t nuanced enough. The period between when they were vaccinated and their subsequent infection is a critical part of the puzzle. Even asking that question is insufficient because protection from severe illness attenuates at different rates for each cohort.
        
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        November 9, 2021 2:02pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        And here is a prime example of the levels of bullshit being thrown around by the authorities to maintain this fairy story. Head of the NHS caught lying through her teeth but it still gets covered in all the mainstream media.
        
        https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/08/health-officials-fire-off-the-scale-wrong-covid-admission-claims/
        
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        November 9, 2021 8:42pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        ClanMcleod, That was an outrageous lie from someone at the very top of the stinking pile of other liars. Even the attempted explanation involved more lies. Incredible.
        
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        November 9, 2021 9:23pm
    - Sacha
      
      But will they be safe? What about the vaccinated who are carrying little passengers on their pharynxes? And who cough, and sneeze in the air-conditioned cabin?
      I’m not at all sure that I’d WANT to travel with any of them.
      
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      November 9, 2021 4:12pm
  - surfing
    
    Given your anti pfizer vaccine stance, hope you haven’t been vaccinated.
    
    Might make you a hypocrite.
    
    I’ll be getting my booster when recommended (dodgy assumption that labour is going to arrange these on time).
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:02am
    - Akarak
      
      I wouldn’t hold my breath for a booster. Apparently you can, however, get a 3rd vaccination but this requires a prescription from your doctor. In other words you need to pay to have it.
      
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      November 9, 2021 11:49am
    - krazykiwi
      
      A decision to get vaccinated is a decision in time, made based on information available at that time.
      
      Changing one’s stance based on new information doesn’t make one a hypocrite, rather it makes one sensible and reasoned.
      
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      November 9, 2021 2:29pm
  - alloytoo
    
    Fear porn
    
    Vaccine = golden bullet.
    
    Sooner or later those people will wake up and be very, very angry.
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:04am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    You speak about the deterioration of effectiveness of immunisation shots as if no one understands it until you explain it to them, Benedict. Then you suggest they get angry. Ever consider that might be because they already know, like the majority of the NZ population?
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:09am
    - bronny1
      
      Definitely not the majority. Most people don’t even realise it’s not forever or at least long term protection like a proper vaccine
      
      21 1
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      November 9, 2021 10:28am
      - MCos
        
        Here is what appears to be a comprehensive list of vaccines available in NZ.
        Many of them, such as COVID-19 vaccines, require booster shots for continuing effectiveness.
        https://www.immune.org.nz/vaccines/vaccine-development/types-vaccines
        
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        November 9, 2021 2:39pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      No. I am not retarded.
      
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      November 9, 2021 11:13am
- mawm
  
  I’d like Air New Zealand to guarantee that as an unvaccinated traveller with a negative nose swab that I won’t get infected by a vaccinated person.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:36am
  - kowtow
    
    I ‘d suggest if you asked that more than reasonable question , even politely at check in you’d end up on a no fly list .
    
    We live in such authoritarian , dystopian times.
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:49am
  - marcw
    
    Silly argument – if YOU have chosen to be unvaccinated, then you are at risk from contact from anyone in your community who is carrying the virus. We all agree, it is inevitable. It is your choice to be out and about, so why should ANZ guarantee anything? You are convinced that you are safe without the vaccine, and that’s fine. You have made your considered choice for whatever reason. But don’t then make it someone else’s responsibility to isolate you from everyone else.
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:43am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Then surely the simple answer would be to completely forget about the idiotic idea of a “vaccine passport” completely because it obviously doesn’t work and never could? Have everyone take a test. Simple, equitable, rational. All of the things that don’t apply to “papers please”.
      
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      November 9, 2021 11:24am
      - krazykiwi
        
        It is not designed to work.
        
        It is designed to divide.
        
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        November 9, 2021 2:53pm
    - mawm
      
      No it’s not; it’s an ironical comment on ANZ’s need to protect the others and their pretending that only the unvaxxed are capable of spreading the virus. If they were concerned with the safety of all passengers then they could truly reduce the risk by testing everybody prior to boarding.
      
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      November 9, 2021 2:14pm
- Surely Knott
  
  So will Jacinda follow suit and let the unvaccinated car travellers cross her Auckland border with a negative nose swab.
  And if not then the unvaccinated will be able to fly to get out of Auckland.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:48am
- MCos
  
  Alternatively all passengers could be required to take a rapid test at the airport prior to departure at their expense.
  For AirNZ the dble-vax is a compromise because although it not as good as a rapid test would be it’s far better than unvaccinated and there’s little admin involved.
  Personally, myself, I wouldn’t like to be sitting next to an unvaccinated, untested stranger for an hour or so, particularly if they’re wearing a Bishop Brian loyalty ring.
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:21am
  - Aquataur
    
    Actually, I’d rather be sitting next to an unvaccinated traveller who has tested negative than a vaccinated one, whose Covid carrying status I don’t know
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:35am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Tell me what you learn by reading this simple chart, based on official statistics from the UK Health Security Agency.
    
    The messaging we’re being force-fed by New Zealand officials isn’t designed to promote health. It is designed to perpetuate an ‘Ardern is saving us’ narrative.
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:49am
Prince

Some questions I would like reporters to ask of Bloomfield or his deputy.

The ‘population’ used to calculate the vaxed percentage is the sum of the people registered with a DHB. What about those who are not registered? Shouldn’t you use the Dept of Stats estimated population based on the last Census, which is 130,000 more people than the DHB number?

When someone who is not on the DHB is vaxed, is that person added to the population, as well as the ‘vaxed’ statistic, to maintain statistical credibility?

The DHB population appears unchanged over several months. Shouldn’t it be adjusted for those who have turned 12 and are now getting their vaccinations?

By not using a credible population, and not adjusting as people outside your population are vaxed, you are over-estimating the % fully vaxed, and with one jab, by around 2 percentage points. So rather than being at 78% fully vaxed and 89% one jab, you are really at 76^% and 87%.
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November 9, 2021 8:01am
- artemisia
  
  Also, believe that anyone who ticks the Maori box is classified as Maori, regardless of how many other boxes they tick.Now that there will be health services preference given to Maori why wouldn’t people tick that box even if a 64th Maori.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:12am
  - amospicton
    
    100% Artemisia and that’s the long term solution to the separatism being promoted by the govt. We all ‘identify’ as tangata whenua. At the very least that will force them to decide what % is required to be classified as Maori and ‘mandate’ DNA tests.
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:33am
    - tf78
      
      amospicton, we’ve been made honourary members of Rongowhakiata.
      
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      November 9, 2021 9:21am
    - alloytoo
      
      That approach pretty much applies to all “Victimhoods”.
      
      Register as “other” on any documentation that asks your sex, or gender or orientation.*
      
      * except with your Doctor, lets not be stupid.
      
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      November 9, 2021 10:08am
  - Plue
    
    Why wouldn’t you tick the box if you are 0% Maori?
    Who is checking and how?
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:53am
    - alloytoo
      
      Want better health care (or anything) in your suburb?
      
      Tick Maori and make a fuss.
      
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      November 9, 2021 10:10am
- kowtow
  
  Reporters ask questions ?
  
  They are now de facto employees of the Cabinet , their master’s voice.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:14am
- Simon
  
  Yep, The DHB stats are likely to be wrong by around 5%. The DHBs take the number of people they think are in their area and minus the number of vaxxs given and there is the number.
  
  This was a problem in the UK as well.
  
  The NZ gubermint is aware of this issue for some time. But the party must roll on.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:14am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The MOH has gone a bit Stasi.
  I had a call yesterday from them, via someone in Hamilton, about my vaccination status. Apparently the Dept has been getting my full medical records directly unknown to me.
  
  This is a wrongful breach of privacy and privilege. My medical status on any matter is of no concern to a designer politicians dreams.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:19am
  - Bridgenag
    
    I want to know the vax status of the politicians and police
    
    25 1
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    November 9, 2021 8:27am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      The politican’s list was revealed weeks ago. I particularly remember the PM from Pakuranga was a laggard.
      Police could yet become mandated for vaccination following Corrections Officers and teachers.
      I expect KBloggers will be on the list for consideration for anti bleating vaccinations so the reach of the country can get a rest from all the moaning.
      
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      November 9, 2021 10:18am
  - John Pakes
    
    You are talking BS Kev, as you are quite right, your records should not be available to “someone” via someone in Hamilton.
    If the call was true, then you were very slow. You should have demanded names and details from the caller, not just hung up and complained.
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:45am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I don’t abuse people who are doing their job. I suspect the caller was in agreement with my responses.
      
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      November 9, 2021 1:45pm
- pdm
  
  Prince. -Send your question to Barely Sober – he is the only one on the job likely to ask it.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:23am
  - kowtow
    
    There’s one other bloke , with an Oirish accent who has asked some thornies , wonder who that is .
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:50am
- Stu2
  
  “you are over-estimating the % fully vaxed, and with one jab, by around 2 percentage points”
  
  Actually 2.9%, so about 3 percentage points
  The MoH dataset is 2020 vintage and not changing
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:57am
plc

Cry me a river, Petal

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/126922480/a-week-of-slow-disillusionment

But she’ll still vote for Bridget Jones’ Government next time….because Hope and “something we can believe in”
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November 9, 2021 8:01am
- kowtow
  
  They don’t like it up ’em do they .
  
  Talking of petals , all last week we were treated to intense hype from the Media Pardy over Flop26 and the End of the World is Nigh.
  
  Suddenly and ironically from this weekend just past the same Media Pardy are bringing us Ode to Joy the world is looking forward to jumping on board airplanes as we open up and get back to flying again.
  
  They do this without the least hint of self awareness around their astounding hypocrisy.
  
  The other related issue is the price of petrol .Going through the roof .
  
  Wait for all the Climate Emergency hypocrites to start whinging about that form of inflation . Yee har .
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:32am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Is it really true that Biden’s a bit of a hypocrite re methane emissions?
    
    At least a refined and ladylike Kamala is waiting in the wings.
    
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    November 9, 2021 12:00pm
- Observer of Life
  
  PLC: Ms Johnson is a tiring wet sap. She will definitely vote for the Princess come next election.
  
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  November 9, 2021 11:49am
Tomtoddy

Tried opening a bank account under Covid? Don’t bother. It will drive you nuts. Try doing anything with a bank and you will be disgusted with the mindless redtape, delays, interference and downright incompetence. Covid multiplies the problems but it is underlying regulations and staff attitude that are to blame.

While the fat cats at the top lounge around their pools on their multi-million dollar salaries us miserable plebs on the ground stand outside a bank for two hours in the cold wind waiting to get inside to change a signature. I waited four and a half hours on the phone to talk to a real person who then was unable to complete a very simple transaction because they could not sight my passport and a utilities account. I have been a customer for 30 years and paid a mountain of fees.

They claim to be protecting us from money laundering and terrorist funding but when you transfer $7,000 between accounts and get phoned asking all manner of private questions to prove your identity then the banking world has gone plain stupid. If $7,000 is all it takes to set up a drug business or fund terrorism, then I might consider joining the underworld.

Clearly, banks have it too easy – it’s a cost plus business and its so hard to change banks they effectively run monopolies with all the arrogance and supercilious attitude that goes with it.
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November 9, 2021 8:01am
- kowtow
  
  “banks have it too easy”
  
  Too big to fail . And they know it .
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:18am
  - Bridgenag
    
    And all the profits going to Australia
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:27am
    - Prince
      
      And all the investment, technology and risk coming from Australia.
      Or do you think they should do that for no return ?
      
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      November 9, 2021 11:08am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Actually most of the profits go to Wall Street. The top Australian banks majority shareholders are there.
      
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      November 9, 2021 11:34am
    - Akarak
      
      Bridgenag, you can always buy shares in the Aussie banks and return some of those profits to NZ.
      
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      November 9, 2021 12:33pm
      - pdm
        
        AK – if he is in KiwiSaver he probably is and does not know it. Go see a Financial Adviser B’nag – there will be at least one in a town near you.
        
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        November 9, 2021 2:26pm
    - MCos
      
      My mother bought some shares in ANZ with some inheritance.
      As the years went buy the value just went up & up. Every now and then she’d sell a few and we’d all have a nice wee present.
      
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      November 9, 2021 6:07pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Tomtoddy’s comments are beautiful.
  I had been thinking of consulting a shrink to give me guidance on anger management, after numerous contacts with banking staff.
  “You want proof of my address? Twice monthly you have mailed bank statements to my home for the past 41 years. And you have an undischarged mortgage over our home. And once a month you have mailed bank statements to my wife for the past 41 years. And now you want me to provide proof of where I live? My late mother instilled in me the necessity of being polite. You make Mum’s advice exceedingly difficult to adhere to.”
  I live 1500 metres from the bank and it is quicker to walk to the bank than it is to telephone them.
  And those thieving Aussie bastards don’t have imputation credits on their dividends.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:39am
  - Trev
    
    They have franking credits though! In some cases Australian companies do provide NZ citizens with imputation credits if they have been paying tax in NZ. What we need is the NZ government to stop double taxing Australian dividends that are paid to NZ citizens. This issue of recognition of franking/imputation credits is a government one not something caused by the Aussie banks.
    
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    November 9, 2021 11:08am
- peterwn
  
  No, banks do not have it easy with complying with financial reporting and money laundering rules. Systemic non-compliance even if by accident can cost a bank millions of dollars in penalties.
  Going through your particular concerns:
  1. opening a bank account. Banks have always had a duty not to open bogus accounts. Some years ago someone opened a bogus account in my cousin’s name to bank a stolen cheque and extract the proceeds – when discovered the bank had to cough up the $7000 involved. A bank would now suffer far more serious consequences if it opened a bogus account that was used to launder drug proceeds.
  2. changing account signatures. Similar considerations – the bank needs to confirm the ID of the new signatory. Otherwise a non-profit account risks being hijacked for money laundering purposes.
  3. $7000 transfer. All >$10000 transactions have to be reported and the bank or others need to be aware of the source of funds. They are also expected to be on the lookout for multiple transactions intended to get round the >$10000 rule. Hence the questions on the $7000 transaction. Huge penalties await those who do not comply, even accidentally. If senior bank staff are indeed whooping it up, they sure would not be when they lose their bonuses if the authorities successfully pounce.
  I am not sure about other banks, but ANZ has arranged things so as much as possible can be done remotely. Unfortunately a person not already known to ANZ may well have to turn up at a branch to confirm ID if opening an account or becoming a signatory.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:44am
  - marcw
    
    You are dead right, unfortunately TomT hasn’t given us all the circumstances surrounding his complaint so we can’t really judge whether it is valid. On the surface the bank’s reaction is wrong, but we don’t know the details. Normally a single $7000 transfer should not trigger this response.
    
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    November 9, 2021 11:02am
- Nickc2
  
  I view Banks like Climate Change (a growth industry) enabled by successive Govts because they don’t know any different and self interest by elected Pollies.
  
  There was a time not that long ago when a wage earner was given a pay packet containing all earnings for the period, complete with a slip of paper documenting those earnings. Then, some employers decided in collusion with their Bank that if their Company’s earnings were tipped into the Bank, the Bank would do all the accounting etc and put money from the Company’s account into wage earner’s bank accounts after the Bank had made overnight investments in various activities and accrued some extra money for themselves.
  Then, the Plastic Card was invented which not only gave wage earners access to their money 24/7 but they could borrow some extra and pay Bank Interest on that loan at a rate set by the Bank, thus more money for the Banks.
  The Banks soon grew tired of this and their greed rose to the surface again and they automated the process and made the wage earner responsible for carrying out their own transactions using a Plastic Card, a Telephone/Computer and their own money whilst paying the Bank for the privilege whilst Bank Staff are assigned to the Dole Queue and Bank Realestate sold or repurposed.
  So who’s been the winner throughout this evolution?
  Now, the Banks want a totally Cashless society (numbers handled by a computer without the need for human intervention. Another Win-Win for Banks enabled by Govts too afraid to challenge the Banking Industry or for self-interest.
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:57am
Benedict Yu

“Ardern was firm that Auckland’s border restrictions will be lifted in time for vaccinated Aucklanders to leave the city for Christmas, all but guaranteeing the virus will spread.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/126928758/covid19-a-freedom-day-for-auckland-nears-the-spread-of-covid19-elsewhere-looms

The only way they will be able to stop unvaccinated people leaving Auckland would be to check every car. (Air New Zealand today announced that it would not carry unvaccinated people from 19 December, unless they have a negative COVID test within 72 hours of travel. Expect buses and trains to so the same. )

So back to cars.. I don’t know how many people want to leave Auckland heading north on Boxing Day. Let’s say it is 10,000 cars over an eight hour period. Maybe it is 30,000. Is it possible to set up a checkpoint and process that many cars? 10,000 cars x 1 minute processing time is 167 hours. Even if you could check every car in 10 seconds it would be impossible. And then you find an unvaccinated person in a car. You need to argue with them and turn them around.

I don’t see how authorities can stop unvaccinated people leaving Auckland by car. What am I missing? I would be interested in views of people who deal with logistics.

Putting all that aside, those people who had their second shot more than 6 months ago will now have limited protection against infection and transmission. Those people who leave Auckland will inevitably start spreading the virus around the country.

I have been reading more studies this morning on degrading vaccine effectiveness. It is not good news.

About 5 years ago I was in India for a while. I was vaccinated against rabies. That protection will still be effective today. If I go back to India after 10 years I might need a booster. But the idea of a vaccine that needs a booster after 6 months is a bit nuts. And that is what is required with the COVID vaccine.

The vaccine is valuable in that it protects many vulnerable old people people from dying. But it does not have the functionality of a “vaccine” as we have come to understand that functionality. However most people will now think they are bullet proof with their vaccine certificate.

I have not turned into a vaccine opponent. But I have changed from an ardent supporter to a slightly cynical supporter. They are a half functional prototype. That’s fine if it is as good as it gets. But the Government is actively promoting the vaccines as something quite different.
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November 9, 2021 8:01am
- krazykiwi
  
  Containment theatre. But with a sinister angle: it is designed to create an underclass that can be vilified and blamed for the inevitable mushrooming of ‘cases’
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:05am
  - westernScientest
    
    Oh, dont worry the underclass will be blamed for much more than anything to do with covid in the months (hopefully only months) to come
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:38am
- Raphael
  
  SO here you have two options:
  Passport App on your phone? (can you only have it on one phone? what if you have a work and private phone? can you have it on both? what’s to stop me from giving you my credentials to login?)
  Printed copy (what’s to stop me from giving you a photocopy for $5?)
  
  It comes down to how does Mr. Shop Owner know that the person presenting the passport is the person who it is?
  
  Will you need to also present photo ID? Not everyone who would need to be vaxed has a photo ID (especially if we start vaxing 5-11yr olds)
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:10am
  - kowtow
    
    CCP social credit by stealth .
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:23am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I don’t know how bullet proof it will be. Probably not. And people are resourceful.
    
    What is a joke is the exemptions from mask wearing. You can still download an “exemption card”. No name. No nothing.
    
    I was in a shop yesterday. Both service staff had these exemption certificates pinned to their shirts. I don’t care. I’m not scared of mask less folk. But there was no way to tell if those things are genuine.
    
    So yes. If someone wants to get a fake vaccine certificate they will find a way.
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:30am
    - Surely Knott
      
      It took Nz till 1999 to add a photo to their drivers license. Previously it was just a piece of paper with your name and signature. Completely pointless as id. Excellent for the underaged teens wanting to go to a nightclub.
      
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      November 9, 2021 11:14pm
  - Flossie
    
    And can you have two passports on one phone?
    There must be heaps of people with only one family phone. I’m thinking especially pensioners who probably don’t need the extra expense of a second phone.
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:31am
    - mawm
      
      Does anybody still make mobile phones that do nothing but take or make calls or texts? Asking for a friend.
      
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      November 9, 2021 8:45am
      - bronny1
        
        Nokia does the old 3320 I think it is! So retro these days! ?
        
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        November 9, 2021 9:23am
      - alloytoo
        
        Many old Android phones (v4ish) no longer update Google Play, but their telephony/text function should work.
        
        Alternatively get a smart watch that takes a SIM and tell people truthfully you don’t have a phone with you.
        
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        November 9, 2021 10:24am
      - pdm
        
        That is all I want mine to do Mawm..
        
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        November 9, 2021 2:44pm
      - Jack5
        
        Mawm, l “burner”phones, as they call them, are still on the market. They mainly do text and voice, and are cheap.
        
        Burners, because they’re just about cheap enough to throw away.
        
        Some now include a basic camera and an even more basic radio, but they’re not the attraction. That comes from small (pocket) size and low price. No worry if you lose one, and you can have two or three for convenience, or if you’re a crook, for keeping your head down. They feature a lot in crime novels.
        
        One use: for security confirmation messages to and from your bank.
        
        Burners aren’t so handy for people trying to call you, but they’re convenient for outward bounds calls and texts, they’re convenient to carry or store, and they’re cheap.
        
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        November 9, 2021 8:41pm
    - Raphael
      
      I didn’t even think about that one (mostly because my elderly parents both have phones and we’ve convinced them to keep them relatively current).
      
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      November 9, 2021 8:49am
  - thirteenstars
    
    As I’ve said previously, wait until you see the enabling legislation, and the rules derived from it, that will give the police (and others) sweeping powers to require ID and various other proofs of who your are and where you’ve been.
    
    Forget the Bill of Rights–if you haven’t already–because your rights to remain silent and not be subject to unreasonable searches are dead.
    
    Just like that.
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:02am
- Frank the tank
  
  The border will be a fuck up every which way unless it comes down and that is IF, you have anyone to manage it. My understanding is the front line is completely burnt out manning the northern border.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:12am
  - k1w1
    
    Add to the mix it’s heading up to, and right on Xmas, in the hot weather, with carloads of very pissed off people itching to pick a reason to argue.
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:37am
    - Ehlana
      
      And just for fun, think of all these people queueing in their cars, drinking water, coke etc. in large quantities to stay hydrated (and awake) in the heat.
      
      Then think what happens when, inevitably, someone’s “gotta go”.
      
      How’re they going to manage that one then?
      
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      November 9, 2021 8:49am
      - k1w1
        
        I’m planning on riding the motorcycle up past the queues of cars to get to the front. Rate my chances?
        
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        November 9, 2021 9:34am
  - Bridgenag
    
    What about hiring a car transport mob to take your car/boat + to some place over the border ready for Christmas. You will be all ready to walk across the border somewhere or hide in a truck or someones boot. Might be time to Google ……
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:09am
    - Paulus
      
      Arrange a boat trip from Auckland berth somewhere and deliver to Coromandel Town.
      Used to be a ferry for it.
      
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      November 9, 2021 11:06am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Your understanding is BS, there are big shift rotations and on the Southern Border supported by Armed Forces Personnel managing well.
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:25am
    - Frank the tank
      
      From the horses mouth Brian. 3 separate officers.
      
      There are no large shift rotations at all. Not too sure who is peddling bullshit into your speaking hole but it’s misinformation.
      
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      November 9, 2021 11:37am
- Ra Henare
  
  I agree 100%.
  Its seems that politics is the over arching thing.
  Has anyone done a cost benefit analysis(ie the Ministry of Health with Treasury)
  With the divide and conquer strategy being deployed.
  
  If I was a cynic(mmm Actually I am).
  I would say lots of this lockdown vax/novax strategy is for optics. To Make herself look good internationally. And no Alice, dear leader WILL NOT get a job at the UN.
  
  She is more likely to do a Clinton and join the International speaking Circuit.
  
  Big bucks and no responsibility.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:13am
- Aquataur
  
  Even worse BY. While it continues to reduce the risk of hospitalisation and death, the efficacy in preventing catching the virus turns negative after 9 months or so – meaning you are more likely to catch it if vaccinated.
  
  This I think was the conclusion of the recent Swedish study of over 1m cases/people
  
  How convenient that the Pfiser trial on which EUA was given was a measly 4 months
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:14am
  - Raphael
    
    While it reduces the risk of hospitalisation I think we will see the actual numbers of people requiring hospitalisation going up as people will be thinking they are immune to C19, and carry on as per normal (This is something I have repeatedly said as soon as we started getting the data from overseas).
    
    At the moment with the current outbreak we have had total of 2200 unvaxed people getting it with 212 hospitalised (around 9.7%). The Scaremongers at the Herald were saying that once we’re fully vaxed and open they expect there to be easily 5000 people a week with C19 who will be able to stay at home….
    If these 500 people are full vaxed, we will have around 110 needing hospitalisation at any given time (current stats are 2.2% of fully vaxed end up in Hospital)
    
    And we’re talking about our systems being overloaded with the current 67 who are in hospital….
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:00am
    - Ed Snack
      
      And if they had bothered to consider treatment at time of diagnosis, there would be probably only 10-12 people in hospital. But that wouldn’t fit the narrative or Pfizer’s bottom line, so we don’t.
      
      It will become very important to prevent people ever even testing alternatives other than expensive drug company products, just so the outright negligence of the medical authorities will not come to light.
      
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      November 9, 2021 10:48am
- Rodney Hide
  
  Hi Benedict
  
  What do you think the chance is that government will have a vaccine passport in everyone’s hands by Christmas 2021?
  
  Rodney Hide
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:22am
  - plc
    
    You crack me up….they signed the dev contract yesterday
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:25am
    - Paulus
      
      Someone has got to take the blame remember.
      Of course the Health Dept and the new Contractor.
      Never the Government.
      
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      November 9, 2021 11:08am
  - MarkF
    
    If it were possible the chance would be less than zero!
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:32am
  - cmm
    
    I’ll give you the “engineer’s answer”: it depends.
    
    It depends on what you mean by “an app”.
    
    If all that is required is to tick the box of providing a passort app – any passport app, then that could be done in a week.
    
    If it needs to have encryption and security etc so that it can’t be spoofed etc, then I’d think at least a month.
    
    If it needs to have encryption etc and be linked to a back-end server for updating and withdrawing passports when people test positive or when they fail yo get boosters etc, then I doubt you’d see that before February.
    
    Given past performance, I expect they’re going to serve up something more towards the do something, anything end of the scale.
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:44am
    - Raphael
      
      The company the government has tasked with it Mattr is primarily focusing on getting endpoints that others can call from their apps.
      So for e.g. the AirNZ app will call on the Mattr endpoints.
      I believe they will have the endpoints up in time. whether or not they will be behaving correctly, and able to handle the load without falling over is another question entirely.
      
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      November 9, 2021 9:15am
    - RoboRob
      
      Air NZ are saying their IT systems will automatically interface with the ‘App’ to confirm you are vaxed. Sounds like they are going more than bare bones.
      
      If they are rolling out an app update they need to wait for Apple and Google to verify it. Might take a couple of days. If it is a whole new app it might take significantly longer, esp with Apple.
      
      As a goverment application and web infrastructure project I would expect it would need to be thoughly tested to confirm confidential data is secure and safe. I imagine the would have at least you NIH # and vax status
      
      Assuming a new app, I think the app would need to be ready at least 1 week before required date just to get on the various app stores. I am assuming Dec 4 will be the reqd date, so they have about 2.5 weeks to release. Given the pace govt departments move, I cant see that. The non govt devs are still going to need to work with govt departments and wait for responses 🙂
      
      I am still waiting on a government department to confirm a ‘priority’ contract where I sent the first proposal this time last year. They have had management changes in between and I have resent the proposal and updated pricing twice since them (each new manager having never seen the proposal). The last time was about 40 days ago when they said they ‘urgently needed it’. Still waiting for a response 🙂
      
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      November 9, 2021 11:23am
      - Raphael
        
        There was a Herald Premium article yesterday that was saying that they just appointed Spark subsidiary Mattr to do the main services other apps will query.
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/covid-19-delta-outbreak-spark-subsidiary-mattr-wins-key-vaccine-pass-contract/WU3ABDBP5BDINVMITLHK5AI3GY/
        
        The Ministry of Health says it has appointed Spark subsidiary Mattr “to construct vaccination passes for use domestically and internationally.”
        
        Mattr will be the main provider of the technology that underpins the Ministry’s My Vaccine Pass and will develop and support the Ministry’s Verifier App for businesses to confirm a person’s vaccine status, the MoH says.
        
        My Vaccine Pass, which is an official record of a person’s Covid-19 vaccination status, will help people access places within New Zealand that require proof of vaccination under the new Covid-19 Protection Framework, the Ministry says.
        
        A separate pass will be developed for use when travelling internationally.
        
        … [We can’t quote in full paywalled material without permission sorry. The link is there if you want to read it all. mod.]
        
        Mattr is Barber’s passion project.
        
        “I’d been concerned for quite a while about the shape of the internet. Phishers, scammers, bad actors and the big giants make for a pretty “interesting” landscape. Digital trust and privacy are such hard problems to solve, but should be fundamental to the next generation of the internet,” she told the Herald over the weekend.
        
        “That is our focus at Mattr and more than enough to get me to give up my previous day job. I’m all in on this and delighted to have the support and backing of Spark.”
        
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        November 9, 2021 2:13pm
      - cmm
        
        Nothing automatically does anything. It will need a bunch of software development & debugging and ironing out problems once it has gone live.
        
        I can see long queues on Christmas Eve when servers get overloaded etc.
        
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        November 9, 2021 5:18pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    They will deliver. But I doubt it will have integrity. Expect many unvaccinated people to find ways to produce a certificate.
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:50am
    - bronny1
      
      I’ve thought about that. But not sure why I would need one, much healthier to stay out of pubs and cafes anyway and it’s summer!
      
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      November 9, 2021 9:28am
    - cmm
      
      At the end of the day the cops are not going to look at each one closely. Just waving something that looks a bit like the app in front of their face will likely be enough.
      
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      November 9, 2021 9:38am
    - bronny1
      
      I’m also not sure there are many people I want to be bear to anymore either. That have shown their true colours.
      
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      November 9, 2021 10:32am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        That’s exactly where I am at. There are people I used to enjoy being around who have revealed themselves to be petty, intolerant and judgmental people. It will be no great loss.
        
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        November 9, 2021 11:46am
    - Nickc2
      
      Raphael @ 2:13PM
      If this roll-out is to be anything like Spark’s online TV Live Sport, I wouldn’t be holding my breath. It could be terminal.
      What’s going to happen when the system goes down and people with a few under their belts try to enter another bar? I’m picking it won’t be pretty.
      
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      November 9, 2021 3:21pm
  - Ehlana
    
    Have you taken a ride on the Dominion Road tram they built in their first term to admire those of the 100,000 new homes that line its route yet?
    
    Enjoyed a picnic under one of the million new trees they planted?
    
    Remember the vaccine passport was promised after they promised those other things.
    
    So it will probably be delivered after them too.
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:53am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      They will pass the task ontop the WEF who have an elegant solution of a personal carry around ID chip.
      
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      November 9, 2021 5:46pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    They got the border passes system working in days with a 24hr 7 day service and quick turnarounds.
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:27am
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      It works so well, that drugs and hookers can get through as needed as well!
      
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      November 9, 2021 1:05pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      Where did you hear that fairy tail Brian.
      Another urban myth!!!!!!!!!!
      
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      November 9, 2021 1:18pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  When the “vaccines” were not properly tested are the forced requirements for their use not in contravention of the Nuremberg Convention?
  That is the NZ Govt breaking international law.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:25am
  - bronny1
    
    Sue Grey lost her case in High Court yesterday. Incredibly given the clear breach of Bill of Rights with mandatory vax.
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:41am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      The Judge couldn’t fully suppress his reaction to her contention that because some people who tested positive for Covid had no symptoms that meant that Covid didn’t exist.
      
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      November 9, 2021 10:30am
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    And also breaking New Zealand law..
    
    Coercing people to get vaccinated and prevent freedom of movement contravenes the New Zealand Bill of Rights.
    
    “Every person has the right not to be subjected to medical or scientific experimentation without that person’s consent.”
    
    And:
    
    “Everyone lawfully in New Zealand has the right to freedom of movement and residence in New Zealand.”
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:45am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Read the Judgement.
      
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      November 9, 2021 10:31am
- artemisia
  
  Benedict, you are a hugely valuable member of this KB community. Not only do you research and read widely but you put the time and effort into passing on your findings and opinions in a highly readable form.
  
  It is quite noticeable that KB is one of the few sites where people can read, think, make up their own minds, and even post unpopular views.
  
  Thank you for your contributions.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:40am
  - Ehlana
    
    Seconded, with applause.
    
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    November 9, 2021 12:28pm
- greybeard
  
  A negative test 3 days before boarding does not mean that you are negative at time of boarding.
  This is a stupid , illogical test.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:57am
  - Raphael
    
    As evidenced by the person who went to Tonga. They had their negative test.
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:17am
  - mawm
    
    All it means is that at the time of the test they were unable to find any identifiable viral RNA in the part of your nose that was swabbed.
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:20am
- Ruawai
  
  Yes BYu, I am yet to hear anyone on the podium of truth explain that the vaccine loses efficacy before a year is up.
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:11am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    I have, in fact only last week when Ashley was asked about when booster shots will be available. Try to keep up.
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:33am
    - Charmaine Hawke
      
      How many boosters will you have before you admit the vaccine is a little bit crap?
      
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      November 9, 2021 3:40pm
- nz_aj
  
  The traffic light border rules as they currently stand can’t be managed. The only way I can think of to make them work is to just open and manage compliance with spot checks and heavy fines.
  Flu vaccine only gives short protection due to speed of mutation. Covid has a similar mutation rate.
  Other vaccines are only good for 2 or 5 years, etc., while some are lifetime. Just the way it is
  
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  November 9, 2021 10:44am
  - pdm
    
    The traffic light system will not work because it penalises areas with low or no covid eg South Island, Hawkes Bay, Wairarapa to name 3 but with low vaccination rates.
    
    By my calculations Hawkes Bay will be lucky to be set free by April Fools day and there have been only one or two cases if any-
    
    In short it is bullshit.
    
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    November 9, 2021 12:55pm
- alex Masterley
  
  How is Ms Ardern going to deal with the boaties who take off boxing day for the coromandel, Great Barrier and the Bay of Islands and beyond?
  I am not sure that check-points will work as the yachties i know are not good at qeueing.
  
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  November 9, 2021 2:42pm
  - Nickc2
    
    My sentiments exactly alex. If someone wants to check my Covid credentials, they best do it before I depart the Marina.
    
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    November 9, 2021 3:25pm
Simon

If the vaccines worked, as intended, they wouldnt be mandatory.
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November 9, 2021 8:06am
- KevO'Brien
  
  They are tainted from the outset by deceit. Working remedies had to be stopped while people like Fauci who had a financial interest in the outcomes promoted the “vaccine”.
  
  Has the “vaccine” been tested to the standards expected under
  our Medicines Act? Official approval hijacked from another jurisdiction does not guarantee safety. Pfizer will accept no legal responsibility. Now the cheeky blighters have re-arrranged ivermectin for their resale. This whole reeks of fraud.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:35am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Kev, please stop that “rearranged Ivermectin”. It is simply untrue and you undermine your other more truthful assertions. Their new drug is based on work done with HIV treatments, an effects the viral replication process. Ivermectin affects the viruses ability to bind to and enter cells. Quite different structures despite a passing superficial similarity.
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:52am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I’m only reporting what others have discovered, that biochemists have effectively modified the invermectin molecule so enabling patents of a new product. Info is scarce but ivermectin is a sole molecule so another element or radical might be tacked onto an open chain.
      
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      November 9, 2021 1:54pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  No Law supporting that I know of, perhaps you do?
  
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  November 9, 2021 10:34am
Scott

Joe Biden is down to 38% approval in the latest USA today poll. His vice president is even worse, only 28% of Americans approve of the job Kamala Harris is doing.

Two thirds of Republicans think Joe Biden stole the 2020 election. Joe barely campaigned but somehow got more votes than any president in history.

Since assuming office, Biden has made constant verbal gaffes, fallen asleep at climate change conferences and forgotten prime minister Scott Morrison’s name.
He has opened the southern border so that literally millions of people have poured across.
Energy prices are soaring.
The withdrawal from Afghanistan was an utter shambles.
Biden is seen by many as the worst president in living memory.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/11/07/biden-approval-falls-38-midterms-loom-usa-today-suffolk-poll/6320098001/

One thing Biden has done is to unite large crowds of Americans who together chant “let’s go Brandon!”
This is what happens when a corrupt democrat party, highly questionable election practices and a hopelessly biased media unite to push a totally unsuitable candidate over the line. Biden is just not up to it.
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November 9, 2021 8:07am
- kowtow
  
  They united to get rid of Mr Trump.
  
  They won due to the unique circumstances of covid and mail in voting , this allowed ballot harvesting on a vast scale.
  
  Question must be asked , why did the very wealthiest people in the USA combine secretly with left wing activists to prevent Trump from winning fairly.
  
  This has been well documented and is in the public domain.
  
  “There was a conspiracy unfolding behind the scenes, one that both curtailed the protests and coordinated the resistance from CEOs. Both surprises were the result of an informal alliance between left-wing activists and business titans. The pact was formalized in a terse, little-noticed joint statement of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and AFL-CIO published on Election Day. Both sides would come to see it as a sort of implicit bargain–inspired by the summer’s massive, sometimes destructive racial-justice protests–in which the forces of labor came together with the forces of capital to keep the peace and oppose Trump’s assault on democracy….
  
  Private philanthropy stepped into the breach. An assortment of foundations contributed tens of millions in election-administration funding. The Chan Zuckerberg Initiative chipped in $300 million…..
  
  In November 2019, Mark Zuckerberg invited nine civil rights leaders to dinner at his home, where they warned him about the danger of the election-related falsehoods that were already spreading unchecked. “It took pushing, urging, conversations, brainstorming, all of that to get to a place where we ended up with more rigorous rules and enforcement,” says Vanita Gupta, president and CEO of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, who attended the dinner and also met with Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey and others.”
  
  https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:03am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Ballots that were ‘mailed’ in did not have fold creases on them. Amazing how that works
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:06am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      3 loose wheels in a row.
      
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      November 9, 2021 10:35am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I wonder what that means? Is it some sort of Jaspindaspeak word soup?
        
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        November 9, 2021 4:16pm
- Paulus
  
  I have heard that it is Obama is in control of the US political scene currently and in the event of Joe failing to do the job a new election will be fixed to take place and Obama will take over.
  He is allowed to stand again.
  
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  November 9, 2021 11:12am
  - Nickc2
    
    Obama has done his eight years 2009 to 2017. He can’t be elected as POTUS again unless the Democrats change the rules. However, the way they’re currently going, that’ll be a step too far.
    
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    November 9, 2021 1:52pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    No. Presidents are sensibly limited to two terms. 22nd amendment after FDR in WWII
    
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    November 9, 2021 3:08pm
Captain Mainwaring

Hosking’s interview with Angry Andy this morning was a classic.
The Minister was absolutely hopeless. Had no idea what he was talking about. As one texter said, Hosking might as well have grabbed a random person off the street.
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November 9, 2021 8:08am
- Benedict Yu
  
  What was the subject?
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:16am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Most of the things that Angry is responsible for as Minister of Health (related to Covid).
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:26am
- Scooter
  
  Lots of umming and arring just like Jacinda.
  
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  November 10, 2021 1:12am
pdm

Does anyone know anything about Dr Lokesh Padhye a senior lecturer at Auckland University. I have been sent an article on 3Waters by him and seems he may be a labour sycophant rather than independent.

Googling him suggests he specialises in Water treatment among other things and he seems very much in favour of the handover of water to iwi.
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November 9, 2021 8:09am
- All_on_Red
  
  He is probably after a higher paying job or more Grant money
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:51am
Prince

Yes, the faith runs deep in this one.
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November 9, 2021 8:09am
Yvette

Life about to get harder for the unvaxxed – Newsroom
LET’S DO THIS
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November 9, 2021 8:11am
- oldfella
  
  Yvette, love to hear Cindy’s spin if the unvaxxed were predominantly Muslim.
  
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  November 9, 2021 11:57am
BAM

The joint housing agreement is what will finish National off for good.
Morons of the highest order.

https://www.oneroof.co.nz/news/carnage-in-the-suburbs-housing-shake-ups-worst-case-scenario-40459
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November 9, 2021 8:12am
I remember when

Time for a survey to find out why people decided to be vaccinated.
1. To try to keep their job.
2. So that they can travel overseas.
3. Because they want to be able to visit cafes.
4. Just in case there is a show or festival they want to see live.
5. Peer pressure.
6. In the hope that 1pm covid case numbers performance would finally end.
7. Because covid compliance levels have become so hard to understand and remember, they lie awake at night worrying.
8. Oops, I nearly forgot. As protection against covid.
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November 9, 2021 8:14am
- krazykiwi
  
  None of the above for me 😉
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:53am
- pdm
  
  On the advice of our GP – who toldmrspdm and I separately that he would be first in the vaccination queue.
  
  That was good enough for us.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:54am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Well he was either poorly informed or not very clever given known rapidly waning vaccination efficacy. Pointless getting vaccinated before covid was spreading through the community. Ideally you want to get vaxxed with maximum immune strength just before you are likely to start being exposed.
    
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    November 9, 2021 3:11pm
- mawm
  
  The only one that would get me to be jabbed would be No 2 because one cannot fight other countries not allowing deplorables access. I can put it off just for so long as I have immediate family elsewhere.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:56am
- Raphael
  
  2, and partly 8 (as I already have scarring on my lungs from having had whooping cough as a child, despite being fully vaccinated against it, I am at higher risk should I get C19, I wanted to reduce the risk)
  And also partly so I can complain about the mandates and be able to point out that I have been vaccinated so am not “anti-vax” (the new version of “burn the witch”)
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:19am
- Clownworld
  
  9. Effective and safe non-mandatory vaccine proven beyond warp speed emergency use only. Also includes total liability for any adverse reactions or contraindications etc on the pharma company. The balance of risks and concerns vs benefits are so rare that the proven sterilising of the disease, preventing spread of infection and overall health benefits exceed the risks. Free and consenual.
  
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  November 9, 2021 11:06am
- Observer of Life
  
  I Remember.. No.2 for me. Boy that worked out…
  
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  November 9, 2021 12:16pm
Aquataur

And to think that that moron was the last Labour leader! what an idiot. And most people trust these fools to run our country in an emergency!
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November 9, 2021 8:16am
Frank the tank

So Brenda considered outdoor dining but thought it wouldn’t be ‘equitable’.

In other words – if 1 dies; all should die.

what………a………..fucking……….moron.
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November 9, 2021 8:16am
- nathie
  
  Wouldn’t be surprised if Shawn Hendy told her that ~~“80,000”~~ … ~~“7,000”~~ … “hundreds and hundreds” could die if she allows outdoor dining?!
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:52am
- Ehlana
  
  How is outdoor dining inequitable?
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:55am
  - marcw
    
    Because not all eating establishments can provide this – so all the class will be kept in to teach us a lesson. Kindy teacher says so.
    
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    November 9, 2021 11:17am
    - oldfella
      
      And of course, marc, not all establishments can do takeout, but Cindy still gave that the big nod.
      They’re making this up as they go along!
      
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      November 9, 2021 12:00pm
  - crackle
    
    C’mon you know Socialist Cindy wants everyone to be equal (unless youre unvaxxed)… easiest way is to make everyone poor.
    
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    November 9, 2021 12:56pm
Simon

If you have the means you probably dont want to be in NZ from around May until September 2022. It will be a shit show.
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November 9, 2021 8:17am
- Aquataur
  
  Absolutely agree
  
  The health system will be a basket case with 2 years accumulation of flu, RSV plus waning Covid protection.
  
  The morons will still have no idea
  
  the plebs will be getting really pissed off.
  
  Will watch from the sun on the Sunshine Coast.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:36am
  - kowtow
    
    ‘the plebs will be getting really pissed off.’
    
    The price of ‘planet killing’ petrol will do very nicely in that particular dept , thank you.
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:10am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Wait for the 9 years of neglect to be ‘trolled’ out again and again
    
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    November 9, 2021 11:43am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    ICU case numbers are somewhere around 7% of new daily case numbers of a week back. Project forward to when there are 1000’s of new cases a day (which is inevitable at some point given waning vaccine effectiveness + winter 2022 + economy and schools opening up) and ICUs will be overwhelmed.
    
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    November 9, 2021 3:18pm
- Frank the tank
  
  So you’re telling me that December to April will be good then?
  
  Asking for the team of 5 million that thought getting vaxxed was the return to normality ticket.
  
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  November 9, 2021 11:42am
peterwn

So an accused wants to change his earlier ‘guilty’ plea to ‘not guilty’ meaning his conviction would be cancelled and he goes on trial. Courts are very reluctant to accept such a plea change and it would fail in almost all cases. The need for ‘finality’ of proceedings is an important consideration in such cases. A judge would be careful that an accused is offered legal representation who can advise the accused on how to plead. Also in this instance a QC and another lawyer were placed at the disposal of the accused at sentencing time. This would have given the accused any needed assistance to contest the summary of facts at sentencing time if the accused considered there were errors in the summary. In short the judge fell over backwards in ensuring that the accused was fairly treated and more. This process would also go a long way to refute the claim that he pleaded guilty because of pressure or alleged ill treatment in prison (which would relate to conditions that go with ‘supermax’ confinement). If it did go to appeal Crown Law would put up a very strong legal case as to why the guilty plea should not be cancelled (vacated is the usual legal term).
Fortunately any appeal hearing would not involve victims, families, friends etc. The judges would be fully aware of the potential effect of a trial on the victims and this would be an important consideration woth regard to ‘finality’. The accused would have a serious uphill struggle to overturn his earlier guilty plea.
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November 9, 2021 8:20am
- Raphael
  
  And yes, the accused should face that uphill battle as they broadcast their criminal activities to the whole world. So unless they’ve watched too many Legal Dramas on the prison TV and think they can mount a successful Temporary Insanity case, their pleading guilty was the best thing they could have done.
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:23am
  - peterwn
    
    The judge’s sentencing notes covered possible insanity. He would have been checked by health professionals early in the piece and if found to be ‘insane’ he would have been sent to a secure forensic mental health unit and probably would have remained there for life (Lionel Terry was found insane and committed to Seacliff for life for the murder of a Chinese man in Wellington’s Haining Street in 1905. That was a racist hate crime). It is very doubtful he can plead temporary insanity at this late stage. It seems that Crown Law and the Judge were careful and had all bases covered to minimise the chance of a successful legal attack later.
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:18am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I thought at the time his Manifesto suggested he was a psych case.
      
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      November 9, 2021 5:52pm
- marcw
  
  In the meantime mr tarrant fills in his (ample) day hours and has a jolly good time, and the legal industry fills their pockets – all on hardworking taxpayers money.
  
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  November 9, 2021 11:23am
Tony Stuart

Does Poto Williams have the intestinal fortitude to sack 1200 Police, and to deal with the inevitable fallout?

A vaccination mandate for police could lead to roughly 1200 officers being pulled from the job.

The government is currently weighing whether it should mandate vaccinations for police staff, and Stuff understands the prime minister’s office is resistant to the idea.

Police Minister Poto Williams is understood to be in favour and has been advocating for a mandate.

As of November 4, almost 88 percent of police staff had received one vaccination. About 77 percent were fully vaccinated.

At those rates, roughly 1200 constabulary staff would be unable to work if vaccine mandates were introduced.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126925173/police-vaccine-mandate-decision-imminent-government-fears-1200-officers-might-have-to-be-stood-down

Poto Williams is one of the least effective Ministers in the Ardern Cabinet. Her performance as Police Minister in particular is poor, and I know that rank and file Police have a very dim view of their Minister.

During his tenure as Minister, her predecessor Stuart Nash was relentlessly positive about attempts to recruit 1800 additional Police, even if his mathematics was a bit off, given he forgot to factor in those Police who were exiting. But now Labour appears to be relaxed about two thirds of their claimed nett gain (in reality, the nett gain was nowhere near 1800) exit the Police because they haven’t been vaccinated, or don’t want to be.

Police have already been treated exceedingly badly by the current Government and Minister. As frontline workers, they should have been prioritised for vaccines, but because we didn’t have enough supplies, they had to wait along with everyone else. That’s hardly a ringing endorsement from the Minister as to the importance of the Police.

And now, at a time when violent crime, gun crime and gang crime is spiraling out of control, the Government is going to throw 1200 Police officers on the scrapheap, and leave the Police even more under-resourced than they presently are. Have they thought this through, because the blowback is going to be HUGE!
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November 9, 2021 8:23am
- Yvette
  
  Tony Stuart’
  Police, teachers and front-line medical staff – should mandatory decisions be made by politicians (compromised by self interest conflicts) or public health advisors, which politicians are not?
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:50am
- Maxx
  
  She won’t, and like all other issues Labour faces, the minister will be “promoted” into a new portfolio giving the fresh minister coming in time to acquaint themselves with matter by which time it will be swept under the carpet and hopefully forgotten about. And if it does come up again, mention that earnest discussions are still happening and then announce something new with huge amounts of spending., It is the way…
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:56am
- Stu2
  
  Front line police will be frequently exposed to covid, and even more so under the isolate and treat in the community regime that has just started.
  
  Seem to be a group that would vaccinate anyway out of self interest, so I wonder why 12% are not.
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:10am
  - James Stephenson
    
    Because human nature means that in any given population on any given choice, about 10% will make dumb decisions?
    
    10-11% is what the Green Party usually poll, for instance.
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:01am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      The longer the covid circus continues, the less stupid those who didn’t rush in are looking. Another year should reveal the full story.
      
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      November 9, 2021 12:35pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    I’m picking that like others who have not rushed in, they’ve read the actual science and realise that the jab does almost none of the things it was supposed to. That the more this circus goes on, the more the bad news around the jab increases. It’s now looking to have negative efficacy after a year or so. That’s not even mentioning potential for adverse effects, particularly among younger males.
    
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    November 9, 2021 12:00pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Would you take a “vaccine” that the suppliers will not take responsibility for and is of dubious use under the Medicines Act?
    
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    November 9, 2021 5:54pm
- kowtow
  
  ‘Poto Williams is one of the least effective Ministers in the Ardern Cabinet.’
  
  A very low bar indeed.
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:14am
  - Ehlana
    
    On the contrary kowtow, there is fierce competition in this cabinet for that spot.
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:41am
- Frank the tank
  
  Tony,
  
  All the senior staff (>10yrs) I know are lining up their exit plans right now. AND THEY ARE THE VACCINATED ONES!!!! They are sick of the BS from Bullshit castle and the border patrols and the full PPE to interview criminals were the straws that broke the camel’s back.
  
  The unvaccinated ones are the younger, browner staff.
  
  Therefore it wouldn’t be 1,200 – it will likely to be 2,000 exited the force over the next 18 months if they go down this route.
  
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  November 9, 2021 10:41am
- Brian McDonald
  
  All brave and heroic as always Tony, bold predictions as well. How would you answer if Covid transmissions were made by police while working with health compromised individuals or communities? I’m pretty sure you know which side of the argument most police would support right up to the Commissioner.
  
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  November 9, 2021 10:43am
I remember when

The Crowne Plaza Hotel case was interesting at yesterday’s 4pm show.
Question as to which MIQ facility the death had occurred at.
Ashley didn’t think it was fair as the Crowne Plaza was only operating as a government facility.
I think he thought that there was no additional benefit in knowing which facility and perhaps reputational damage to the Crowne Plaza.
Jacinda came in to say she thought it was the Crowne Plaza.
I am certain Ashley knew it was the Crowne Plaza.
Who was being Prime Ministerial?
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November 9, 2021 8:25am
plc

To steal from the Kop……

“La-La-La-La-La
Cindy’s at the wheel, at the wheel
Cindy’s at the wheel”
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November 9, 2021 8:27am
G152

So, liebor ‘solved’ gun crime by its buyback show.
Except it didn’t and a 16 year old kid died.
Any-one want to guess as to the race of the shooter?
It’ll come out in the trial when his family all tell us as to how he’s such a nice chap and this was just ‘an aberration’

RIGHT
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November 9, 2021 8:28am
- peterwn
  
  It seemed to have been a shotgun involved. For such a weapon the Police can only do their best to check that a person seeking a licence is a suitable person. If a person wants a shotgun licence for duck shooting, has an understanding of shotguns and related safety and has a ‘clean’ record the Police cannot really refuse the person a licence to obtain a shotgun
  A sawn off shotgun would be quite a different matter – they are legally ‘pistols’.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:52am
- Ruawai
  
  Gun crime reported in the media seems to have anecdotally gone up in the last 12 months and you hear media blaming lockdowns because people are under stress. What a load of BS we are all in lockdown not shooting each other, these people don’t have a valid reason to own guns in the city and most likely don’t have a gun license.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:57am
mandk

I heard HDPA yesterday evening saying a large majority of people texting her show didn’t want Aucklanders coming to their part of the country over the holidays.

It just shows what a work of genius Ardern has performed in a short space of time.

We have gone from being kind and all part of a team of 5 million, to being fearful and hostile to our fellow Kiwis.

Time to go, Ardern. I’m sure Helen Clark can find you a cushy job at the UN.
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November 9, 2021 8:31am
- Inandout
  
  man, I don’t think those texters were from the tourist industry for if they were then their industry deserves to wither and die.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:48am
  - Maxx
    
    Those in the tourism industry don’t have the money to text anymore. And their Minister has never listened – he’s only interested in not pissing off the powers that be so he can keep a ministerial position, and after that a nice cushy part-time role as an opposition MP. Hopefully by then he can get some more holidays/conferences to go to (as long as that pesky Shaw doesn’t insist they’re all Zoom, claiming the in person ones for himself).
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:27am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    I’ll be delighted to have Aucklanders enjoying our guest accommodation again this summer. Sunshine and fresh air will deal to any virus managed properly.
    
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    November 9, 2021 3:40pm
- Ruawai
  
  The thing is if the Government don’t want Covid spreading around NZ they should be keeping the Auckland border in place for a few more months, if science is the basis of their decisions, but because it is Xmas and new year they are letting us out. No logic. The border will either have to be in place and no travel or have no border as there is no possible way to check vaccines and negative tests on that volume of people moving in and out of Auckland, the Govt shouldn’t even waste their time thinking of a plan as it is obvious it is not possible.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:52am
- rangitoto
  
  I hear there is an opening for junior janitor.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:56am
- Maxx
  
  I work with someone like that.
  I asked if they believed the 90% vaccination thing was the right target, which they affirmed.
  Great, so if one group of people achieve the target (whether you believe it yourself is immaterial) while others lag behind, the group that has achieved should still be kept locked up. Yep.
  How is that far? It’s not fair on me as I’ll be at risk.
  
  We’re about as kind as a psychopath – we’re all happy and friendly until someone gets in the way of what we want. And I’m counting you in that too Cindy.
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:02am
- mawm
  
  Then it is time to stop spending money in their parts of the country. When the Facebook page of a small coastal village community erupted with hate for Aucklanders during our first lockdown I terminated my policy of buying local when I weekend there – it’s easier and cheaper just to buy your supplies in Auckland anyway.
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:06am
- cmm
  
  Yup, it certainly has created a two tier society.
  
  Many people in SI don’t want North Islanders, Aucklanders in particular, to bring their filthy virus to the mainland.
  
  Perhaps we need more armbands:
  * One for unvaxxed.
  * One for North Islanders.
  * One for Jaffas.
  
  Unvaxxed Jaffas get to wear two!
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:09am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Coloured – just like traffic lights
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:17am
    - mawm
      
      And the yellow can be in the shape of a Star of David.
      
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      November 9, 2021 2:30pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Yup, warning warning warning – lost in space
        
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        November 9, 2021 4:32pm
- kowtow
  
  It’s not just Ardern .
  
  Always remember it was literally the panic fear mongering of the Media Pardy that set the tone for this whole thing .
  
  Politicians then fell in line .
  
  And the upshot of 20 months of this moral panic is what you see now.
  
  Totally irrational , witch burning “othering” . All the things the very same Media pardy and politicians claim they vehemently stand against .
  
  Madness .
  
  And also further to that the same Media pardy are doing exactly the same thing around “climate emergency” and the same politicians are veru happy to go along with that moral panic too. again for their own purposes .
  
  Farmers , oil and coal workers etc are also being othered . Prepared for the auto da fe.
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:24am
- Frank the tank
  
  Therein lies her problem. She goes from Auckland hating her to the whole of the country when she opens the floodgates
  
  Ergo – the ‘border’ will be in place and difficult to navigate leading to the shits all around.
  
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  November 9, 2021 11:48am
BeaB

According to Guyon Espiner on Radio NZ anti-vax protesters are a ‘mob’.
And he repeated the word in case we hadn’t got the message.
Interesting loaded language.

Now he tells us Musk is the new Donald Trump. Where have the real journalists gone?
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November 9, 2021 8:31am
- Ehlana
  
  The ones I saw on TV looked more like people having picnics in the park than a mob.
  
  Perhaps this money the government is giving journalists could go on some good old-fashioned English language dictionaries.
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:00am
- Frank the tank
  
  A presstitute is ever I heard one.
  
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  November 9, 2021 11:49am
cmm

Solar farms get touted as the solution to replace grubby coal, but it’s all bullshit.

The bottom line with solar farms is that:
* They are far too expensive.
* They are far too big.
* They generate insufficient power.
* They need a backup method for storing energy (eg. pumped storage) which needs to be huge to cover when the sun isn’t shining.

Take all the power output of the top ten solar farms in the world and you get less power output than one coal power station.

Let that sink in.

Those solar farms are massive because solar is so inefficient – around 25 square km per GW of nameplate capacity. Since solar farms only work for a short time every day, 1 GW of power needs at least 5 GW of name plate capacity (ie. 125 square km of solar farm) as well as 1GW of storage to cover for at least 20 hours. That’s about 1.5 times the generation capacity of the WHOLE Waikato hydro scheme.

That’s for 1GW in perfect conditions where there is no winter and the sun always shines.

Now consider that:
* Winter performance is way down on that.
* We live in a very cloudy part of the world.

Together those mean:
* The 5x factor changes to at least 10x, if not 20x, so multiply the numbers above by 4.
* Storage must be increased to cover when the sun is not shining enough. Extend storage to 2 weeks.

So we’re up to 500 square km of solar farm per GW.

If we want to change to electric vehicles and kill off coal and gas, we’ll need at least another 10GW:
* 5000 square km of solar farms (almost half the Canterbury plains)
* 15x the Waikato hydro scheme for storage.

Oh well, at least that’s something to do with the farmlands once farming is banned!

I don’t know where they’re going to find another 15 Waikatos though.
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November 9, 2021 8:33am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Really we only need to add a couple of GW average to go entirely renewable in NZ + power EVs Probably less than 10GW nameplate capacity installed if we have good seasonal energy storage. At 25MW/km² that is about 400km². Which is really not that much land.
  
  Onslow pumped storage + grid upgrade could deal with the seasonality of solar, and we have a fair amount of sunny low productivity land (Marlborough, East Cape, Mackenzie country).
  
  Personally I would prefer nuclear, but there is a dearth of good designs available (for probably the next decade or two, until populace start behaving a bit more rationally), but PV is cheap enough to work – just very inconvenient.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:56am
  - cmm
    
    Onslow is 100MW. That’s tiny. That is 1% of NZ’s current peak load which is going to double if we all switch to EVs.
    
    This is a vanity project. It is not going to provide practical amounts of power.
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:21am
    - Taieri
      
      This is a vanity project. It is not going to provide practical amounts of power.
      —————-
      
      It’s a very interesting engineering concept. But the practicalities will render it unfeasible. 20 km long tunnel and 80 metres (!) operating level range of the proposed lake are just not going to happen.
      
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      November 9, 2021 10:24am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Actually 1.2GW and 5TWh total storage, but could be made higher peak power if need be (at significant cost of course)
      
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      November 9, 2021 3:27pm
      - cmm
        
        I am curious where you get those numbers from. The only description I found said 100MW.
        
        I suppose that at this stage Onslow is just a political paper so it is whatever you want it to be.
        
        Still 1.2GW is tiny. That’s a third of a reasonably sized coal power station. Indeed the biggest pump storage schemes in the world are no bigger than a coal station. One on its own is nowhere near enough to provide storage for a system that is high in PV or wind.
        
        1.2GW is not much when it comes to powering NZ. 12% of current NZ peak power consumption, 6% if we double it with EVs etc.
        
        I have not looked at the numbers myself, but based on what Taieri says above, the friction of shoving that much water through a long tunnel with such a short head is going to going to be massively inefficient.
        
        Manapouri is only running 850MW with a much taller head (ie. more pressure, so less water volume flowing) and a much shorter tunnel. Even there it didn’t work properly until they built a second tailrace tunnel (which reduced the friction & losses considerably).
        
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        November 9, 2021 5:42pm
  - bronny1
    
    You do realise that pumped storage in the SI can’t provide full backup for solar farms which will almost certainly be in the NI?
    
    Didn’t realise it was so small. Basically useless.
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:38am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Onslow = 1.2GW, but could be made bigger (at higher cost). Can put PV in Mackenzie country and Marlborough – near large grid infrastructure.
      
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      November 9, 2021 3:29pm
- alloytoo
  
  and solar farms are like covid vaccines, their effectiveness declines with time.
  
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  November 9, 2021 10:49am
  - Jack5
    
    Would solar farms be susceptible to a super-volcano erupting, which seems to happen every few centuries? Such eruptions block sunlight in widespread areas.
    
    For example, Ilapango, in what is now El Salvador, which blew in 536 AD, caused famines in Europe because of sunlight being blocked out from farm fields.
    
    There have been some whoppers in Indonesia, such as Tambora, in April 1815, which killed 60,000 people. Volcanic fields like under many parts of New Zealand, including Auckland city.
    
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    November 9, 2021 2:26pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Solar farms are susceptible to dust storms.
      
      We periodically get dust- storms from Australia
      https://www.jstor.org/stable/26169673
      
      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/336084681_Dust_storm_event_of_February_2019_in_Central_an_East_Coast_of_Australia_and_evidence_of_long-range_transport_to_New_Zealand
      
      and there’s always dust blowing around Canterbury
      (from the braided river beds and ploughed fields)
      https://teara.govt.nz/en/photograph/17109/loess-blowing-off-a-canterbury-river
      
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      November 9, 2021 3:56pm
- surfing
  
  Time to have a conversation about constructing a large hydro plant? Wonder if this is possible somewhere in the north island.
  
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  November 9, 2021 1:28pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    You need a big high flattish plateau next to a large drop in height, with stable geology. North Island is short on such features. Onslow is best in NZ
    
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    November 9, 2021 3:36pm
Ruawai

Turns out the reason Govt don’t want to allow isolation at home for returning kiwis is that there will be too many people coming in and this will pose a risk. But Jacinda said yesterday about 20-30000 people would return to NZ, however the estimated number of cars leaving Auckland is 30,000 each day so way more risk from Aucklanders traveling than returning New Zealanders. Again no logic.
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November 9, 2021 8:46am
- cmm
  
  The obvious solution is to ban cars and force everyone to use the Te Huia train.
  
  While you’re on the train it is much easier for the cops to do their papers, papers thing.
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:23am
  - Ruawai
    
    Great idea CMM but think that train only leaves the station once per day, sometimes leaves carriages behind and then you have to holiday in Hamilton!
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:36am
dcrane

Wasn’t the PM supposed to be visiting Auckland early this week? Any news or rumors?
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November 9, 2021 8:49am
- Ehlana
  
  She said she would be here on Wednesday. She said it right at the start of the 4pm news conference.
  
  I’m not sure why a detailed run-down of her plans for the week needed to be broadcast live to the nation.
  
  Actually, when it comes to this government, I’m just not sure why.
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:01am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Tomorrow’s the day apparently.
  Gives her an excuse to weasel out of question time.
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:07am
- alex Masterley
  
  Yes tomorrow.
  If you see a group of visitors from wellington do remember to give them a nice warm Auckland welcome.
  Having said that it is unlikley the visitors will do anything other than carefully stage managed phot ops well away from the hoi poloi.
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:17am
  - graham
    
    I rather suspect it is more than mere coincidence that the PM’s first visit to Auckland in several months, after repeated calls from all and sundry to visit her *own* *damn* *electorate*, just happens to be on the very day when retail therapy will officially open.
    
    Stage managed photo ops indeed – most likely at shopping malls bustling with people who are just so grateful to be allowed out.
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:33am
    - kowtow
      
      And the Speaker changed the rules to facilidade same.
      
      is Parliament for the people or for the people who are in power .
      
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      November 9, 2021 10:57am
    - dcrane
      
      They’ll be taking a risk to go anywhere that public unless security keeps the plebs all far away.
      
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      November 9, 2021 1:21pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Hangar at Whenuapai with select media only?
        
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        November 9, 2021 2:57pm
cas

Anyone notice that at her pressers and interviews the PM’s thumbs bend backwards? Is that a sign of anything I wonder?
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November 9, 2021 8:49am
- mandk
  
  Yes, it means she is a witch.
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:03am
  - plc
    
    Does that mean we can build a bridge out of her?
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:28am
  - Observer of Life
    
    m&k.. ???
    
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    November 9, 2021 1:01pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  recessive genes
  
  Some people with hitchhiker’s thumb may have acquired two recessive copies, or alleles, of the gene that determines thumb straightness.
  https://www.healthline.com/health/hitchhikers-thumb#causes
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:07am
  - Prince
    
    I was going to say this is a ridiculous topic, but then I recall the media and opponents accusing John Key of trichotillomania, and I figure anything goes.
    
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    November 9, 2021 9:31am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Reptilian shape shifter? //
  
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  November 9, 2021 3:02pm
KevO'Brien

Climate change has overtaken sense.
In the background researchers at all levels have been beavering away for years to solve our energy needs. In the past two years a replicable way has been found. “Green Energy”, cheap and safe, as heat or electricity is presently being readied for commercialisation by about 6 companies or more.

No more bird killers, car batteries needing top up, PV farms… The race is on.
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November 9, 2021 8:54am
- rangitoto
  
  Sounds like a scam.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:59am
  - Ed Snack
    
    And sadly, it is. These schemes are about for years, just about to be released or marketed…..then fade away and get forgotten.
    
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    November 9, 2021 11:08am
- cmm
  
  C’mon Kev. How many of these scams have you been fooled by so far?
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:25am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    None. There is good news for hydrogen lovers. The cold fusion chase ended a year or so ago when it was found that a cheap metal catalyst, a small plasma, hydrogen, and a controlled voltage pumped through the plasma as an extra caused excess energy to appear. The disturbance of the plasma was the key which has since been replicated all over the world.
    
    There is argument about the nature of the find but the best explanation seems to be that the hydrogen atom re-arranges its internal structure so releasing energy.
    This is well past the scam state. The finds are very recent and there is furious activity now to get products out. I expect the coming year will add much more visibility to all this. Airbus has patents!
    I have no stake in any of the enterprises involved. I am just enjoying watching the birth of another new technology and foreseeing its outcomes. There will be turmoil but too many labs have been involved to suppress the knowledge and like computers the homebrew people will not be stopped either.
    
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    November 9, 2021 2:18pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Easy to demonstrate in an incontrovertible way if true, just run it for a day in the middle of a carpark and if energy out >> energy in you could sell it for 10’s of billions immediately – pretty good pay back for the few weeks it would take to set up an unimpeachable demo.
      
      The fact that they haven’t tells you everything you need to know. Hydrogen atoms rearranging their energy levels is just horseshit. It’s fusion or nothing. Mills and his hydrinos are just rehashed pathological science still sucking in the gullible after 30 years of scamming.
      
      May be something to LENR (Lattice enhanced Nuclear Reactions, using hydrogen in a solid matrix to overcome the coulomb barrier to fusion) but this aint it.
      
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      November 9, 2021 3:50pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        I’ll let the commercial warriors fight it out.
        I’m not going to get into the dog fight over GUT-CP v. Quantum Theory.
        The market and will ultimately settle this.
        
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        November 9, 2021 6:09pm
Surely Knott

RNZ reports that about 2000 people are isolating at home.
The current case data says only 290 are isolating at home or self isolating and 2230 are location “other”.

Do RNZ have different data than the public. Are they saying that other is home also?

Andrew Little said, “”It may well be that the easiest thing is putting together a care pack for somebody who is isolating at home – you just include the pulse oximeter – but the reality is, not everybody is expected to need one.”

Are they still deciding whether to supply home care packs?
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November 9, 2021 8:54am
- cmm
  
  “It may well be that the easiest thing is putting together a care pack”
  
  Yeah talk is cheap. Actually DOING something always seems to be a challenge for this mob.
  
  I wonder whether they’ve ordered 50,000 pulse oximeters?
  
  Does Little think he can just go to amazon and click “add to cart” 50,000 times?
  
  PS: remember the 100,000 AAA cells too! We don’t want another short needle cock up!
  
  Here in the cmm house we’ll sort ourselves out thanks. We already have two.
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:33am
- bronny1
  
  Apparently the home care packs include a box of muesli bars and a thermometer, for a family of 6
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:41am
  - alloytoo
    
    I wonder if we could order from India, their package would probably be cheaper and better.
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:52am
- Ed Snack
  
  If they were serious they’d prepare home care packs like Uttar Pradesh, complete with Vit D, Vit C, Zinc supplements, a low dose antibiotic against opportunistic infections, an anti-blood clotting agent (low dose aspirin might work), and of course Ivermectin. Would work pretty well, cost bugger all, and at least make them look like they are doing something.
  
  If they are worried, we could at least send a small team to Uttar Pradesh to study what they did and evaluate its usefulness for NZ. But for some reason, they quite simply will not do so. Medical authorities are simply convinced that regardless of trials or tests or whatever, that only vaccination or expensive Big Pharma drugs can possibly work.
  
  Is it something they’re putting in the water to produce such groupthink ?
  
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  November 9, 2021 11:14am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    According to a “leaked” copy of the Pfizer contract with Albania, no alternative treatments are permitted while their jab is being rolled out. I can’t vouch for the authenticity of it, but the comments of those who have looked at it seem to favour it being legit. It’s a standard type pharma contract and would be very similar in all countries.
    Why can’t we see the document our government employees have signed us up to with our money?
    
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20616251-albanian-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-contract
    
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    November 9, 2021 1:49pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      jesus that’s just evil. Millions dying but you are not allowed to use supplementary medicines to our vaccination.
      
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      November 9, 2021 3:53pm
    - ByGolly
      
      I can’t find the clause, can anyone point me to the page number?
      
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      November 9, 2021 9:08pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  RNZ word soup learnt from Jaspinda? ‘At home’ may not actually mean your own home/house/property. It may mean your City or even Country.
  Cunning as shithouse rats
  
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  November 9, 2021 3:09pm
Yvette

The coming re-colonisation? For some it may be a first dose, for another ethnicity: a second dose?

The Government for the most part accepts the rollout has been flawed for Māori but is also having to weigh up the pressure it is receiving from tired and fed-up Aucklanders and the business community.
It’s inevitable the country will move to more open borders in coming weeks and the unvaccinated, many of whom are Māori, will feel the effects of that.
Having been failed by the state for generations, history will record it as yet another example where Māori were left behind.
Ardern and her colleagues, particularly her Māori ministers, will be hoping the huge vaccination drive underway in hard-to-reach communities currently will start lifting rates.
They’ll also be hoping a new world where the unvaccinated are restricted to a life of only supermarkets and healthcare will tip the rest over the line. [1]

It seems to be a little more starkly obvious that Ardern will split the country apart.

But Labour can laud values like whanaungatanga, kaitiakitanga and manaakitanga – the power of being connected to each other, having an ethic of care, respect in the way we progress, and taking care of things for ourselves and our mokopuna [Climate Change Commission Report, 2021] – and, also proclaim Māori are more likely to be overweight, depressed, homeless, incarcerated and uneducated [Kelvin Davis, 2017] and now … the least vaccinated.

Will Labour raise people up or grind them down? “… create fault-lines running through families, communities, and the nation”?
And will New Zealanders allow Labour to do that?

Seem a little stark? – this below may be starker for some “stake-holders”, and those caught as collateral damage …

Covid 19 Delta outbreak: DHBs, funeral homes buy refrigerated containers for Covid-19 bodies.
Refrigerated containers are being hired, bought, and scoped out to store Covid-19 bodies across the country. Not all district health boards have morgues and many that do are wary the virus may overwhelm capacity. [2]

And that may be it too: “the virus may overwhelm” everything, while Ardern’s band plays on …

Unless we have some credible, responsible voices doing this, then the fringe and the extremes, the kind of people who organize protest marches in the middle of a lockdown, will continue to lead the debate. [3]
Ardern in her “kindness” has still fallen short in the “national conversation” on Capital Gains Tax (no Government side of the discussion presented, so media and others filled the gap of several weeks – QED) and “hate speech” (when what was being talked about was never actually defined)
Now is it happening again, with the rabble filling the vacuum once more.
What in fact has happened to whanaungatanga, kaitiakitanga and manaakitanga – or in simple English – the power of being connected to each other, having an ethic of care, respect in the way we progress, and taking care of things for ourselves and our children?

[1] https://www.newsroom.co.nz/life-could-be-about-to-get-harder-for-unvaccinated
[2] https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-dhbs-funeral-homes-buy-refrigerated-containers-for-covid-19-bodies/H2ZKQIMY6SR6LW7GEMSJSYBNEA/
[3] Guest Post: The risks of creating a two-tier society – https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/11/guest_post_the_risks_of_creating_a_two-tier_society.html
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November 9, 2021 8:56am
- KevO'Brien
  
  the rollout has been flawed for Māori
  Yeah?
  Haven’t they had the same opportunities as everyone else to get jabbed?
  More racist privilege claims. Isn’t the Treaty handout enough?
  
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  November 9, 2021 2:25pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Does anyone know if Bloomfield finally supplied the number of vaxxed/unvaxxed folks who are in hospital with Covid-19?

He said he would look up those numbers while being questioned at the podium yesterday… then got diverted.
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November 9, 2021 9:03am
- Stu2
  
  They come out every Tuesday.
  But you need the data from the previous week to figure out what the new cases and new hospitalisations are.
  
  In the past week there were 39 hospital admissions:
  – 2 under 12
  – 23 unvaxx
  – 3 one dose but under 14 days ago
  – 5 one dose
  – 1 second dose but under 14 days ago
  – 5 second dose
  
  There were 39 the week before as well
  – 4 under 12
  – 21 unvaxx
  – 1 one dose but under 14 days ago
  – 10 one dose
  – 2 second dose but under 14 days ago
  – 1 second dose
  
  So still over half unvaxxed in the past week, but fully vaxxed are up from 1 to 5, and single dosed down from 10+2=12 to 5+1=6
  
  See here https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-case-demographics
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:26am
- Stu2
  
  A couple more numbers – % unvaxxed :
  
  Week 18-25 Oct – 74% of cases, 87% of admissions
  Week 26-1 Nov – 72% of cases, 67% of admissions
  Week 2-8 Nov – 67% of cases, 72% of admissions
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:53am
  - cmm
    
    The cases number is bogus unless it is only looking at symptomatic cases (ie. real cases).
    
    Look at it this way:
    * The vast majority of people believe that the vaccine cures CV19 and makes them immune.
    * Thus why would they go and get a CV19 test? They are far less likely to go get tested than someone who has not been fully vaccinated yet.
    
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    November 9, 2021 5:48pm
Simon

Sincerely wish for everything to be ok with Gavin Newsom.
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November 9, 2021 9:05am
Yvette

Screwing up something as simple as daily case numbers (me, or Them) –
On 30 October 2021 there were 151 new community cases of COVID-19 in Auckland to report from 12,434 tests processed in Auckland in the preceding 24 hours. That, in theory, was 12.14 infected people per one thousand tests.

Yesterday, 08 November 202, the number of new community cases was 182 in Auckland from 8,127 Auckland tests or 22.394 cases per thousand.

Presumably, if yesterday’s result was from 12,434 tests (30 October) instead of just a Sunday low of 8,127 tests – 12,434 is 1.529 times 8,127 – yesterday’s cases count could have been about 278.
They just didn’t do enough tests to find the other 96?

There is something mathematically weird about the daily case numbers which they are not telling us.

Also, Testing centres in Auckland were 19 (last Sunday)
So, surely they have data which tells the Health officials, from which areas the cases came, but they appear to not be releasing that information. Does it pinpoint suburbs or areas that are most vulnerable and is it any help knowing that, or will it “victimise” certain parts of Auckland?

Case numbers and test figures from – https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-news-and-media-updates
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November 9, 2021 9:06am
- Stu2
  
  Yesterday there were 182 positive tests, but perhaps they were not all have been from samples taken on Sunday. The could have included some samples from Saturday that took 24+ hours to process.
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:36am
- cmm
  
  Yup, Yvette thank you for keeping banging on this drum. It is a very important point and needs to be stressed again and again until it gets through.
  
  If they do not correct for the testing rate then what they are presenting are numbers designed to deceive – ie lies!
  
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  November 9, 2021 5:51pm
G152

Apparently the Antarctic is ‘downwind’ from New Zealand.
So any 700 year old soot they found (look at the size of Antarctic landmass) and imagine how you’d be able to find a 700 year old landing site with no other evidence (bones stones encampments etc)) would have been of Maori origin as stated but not as wanted by certain people.
Besides which its just to bloody cold
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November 9, 2021 9:11am
Maggie Pie

My partner reckons surprise sex is the best sex to wake up to.
Unless you’re in prison.
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November 9, 2021 9:23am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, with Bubba in the same cell.
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:50am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    CELLMATE: What are you in here for?
    
    ME: (snuggling) my bunks cold.
    
    😛
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:59am
Lucia Maria

Big protest against the vax mandates, etc in Wellington today. Just spoke to my other half who is on the train – the train is packed with heaps of protestors with signs.
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November 9, 2021 9:32am
- westernScientest
  
  its started https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300449296/covid19-live-parliament-locked-down-as-hundreds-march-to-protest-vaccine-mandates
  
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  November 9, 2021 10:03am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    “hundreds” – and the NZ media wonder why they have absolutely zero credibility.
    
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    November 9, 2021 1:43pm
    - Bridgenag
      
      Wonder if it will be on MSM anytime
      
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      November 9, 2021 2:02pm
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      MSM has been a bit coy on reporting actual numbers I think.
      
      Only interviewing people who think the protesters are stupid. Anyway, Jacinda’s said they don’t truly represent NZ (NZ, not Aotearoa).
      
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      November 9, 2021 2:50pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Maybe it is that roving decimal point again?
      
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      November 9, 2021 3:13pm
  - Bridgenag
    
    The original stuff upload was 2 minutes long. It has now been cut down to 32 seconds
    
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    November 9, 2021 5:03pm
- Ehlana
  
  “the train is packed”. So, they are not yet at 90% double jabbed, but are allowed to crowd on a train.
  
  Meanwhile in Auckland, you’re not allowed to use the indoor toilet when you go to visit friends, even if you’re all double jabbed.
  
  How many different classes of people does this country have now – anyone keeping count?
  
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  November 9, 2021 10:12am
  - Inandout
    
    Eh, you are not ‘supposed’ to as opposed to not ‘allowed’ to. Those people on the train seem to be like the kiwi of old…’rules are there to be broken’.
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:23am
  - Nickc2
    
    you’re not allowed to use the indoor toilet
    Fuck em! I’ve got a stormwater drain and grate in my driveway and I’ll run a hose into the grate during my outdoor pissup. That’ll piss the Covid Stazi off.
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:23am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I have done that. Large deck (48 sq M) outside so a camping cubicle and it drains down the sewer trap. Great at party time and stops the drunks pissing on the inside toilet floor. Works for the girls too
      
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      November 9, 2021 3:19pm
  - Lucia Maria
    
    I agree, it’s terrible, the inconsistency.
    
    My oldest son is trapped in Auckland, lives in a tiny 1br apt in the city with his girlfriend. Got his 2nd jab yesterday, hopefully he will get through it ok.
    
    The only way to get out of this now is stop complying – the more we comply, the more the government’s boot comes down.
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:28am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      That has always been the case, right from the very beginning. Non compliance. The narrative is crumbling rapidly because it was based on nonsense from the very beginning.
      People die from diseases. End of story. When did we decide it was a good idea to hide in the basement? This must never be allowed to happen again, though I did see some dribble in the Guardian last week about how lockdowns had reduced pollution. So will it be Climate Change lockdowns next???
      
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      November 9, 2021 1:33pm
  - Jack5
    
    “… the train is packed …”
    
    What if … one of them begins to cough?
    
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    November 9, 2021 10:57am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Train goes into reverse //
      
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      November 9, 2021 3:20pm
  - graham
    
    Meanwhile in Auckland, you’re not allowed to use the indoor toilet when you go to visit friends, even if you’re all double jabbed.
    
    Is there anybody who is still so naive as to believe that the vast majority of Aucklanders are following this rule?
    
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    November 9, 2021 12:20pm
    - Ehlana
      
      Jacinda, I hope. I hate to think what she would do to us if she found out we’re not.
      
      Actually, I found a way around it. I got the outside air to come inside my house through holes in my walls. I have some little ones I call windows and some big ones you can walk through I call doors. It works a treat…
      
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      November 9, 2021 1:05pm
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  Yes, very big turnout in front of the rats infesting Parliament. Bloody good to see. Let’s goooo!
  
  https://www.facebook.com/savedemocracynz/videos/1093849874485728/
  
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  November 9, 2021 12:32pm
  - freemark
    
    It was huge. A political movement starting methinks – a couple of smaller groups but led ultimately by Pastor (or is it Reverend?) Brian, who Jacinda has locked away in Auckland. Already the media smoke screen & smear machine coming out. Serious challenges to the pollies of all stripes, and visceral loud hatred of the MSM. Very diverse in age, race, gender, occupation. United by the desire for accountability & freedom – oh, and happily the hatred of Communism. But a united front that I’m not sure I have experienced in those numbers. Oh yeah, less talk of God than yr average wedding too. I’m in.
    
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    November 9, 2021 2:09pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    According to the Standard, it is all white extremist, anti vaxx, ant 1080 rent a mob. So, not the good guys who protest against National governments.
    
    Even the bought & paid for media are doing their best to misreporting the event, or distract with news of a b/s report about disinformation. Or shall we talk about the recent Covid deaths, that weren’t anymore, because they were vaccinated?
    
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    November 9, 2021 2:29pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      white extremist,
      
      It might pay for the folks over at “The Standard” to try and figure out what sort of folks carry:
      The National Māori flag
      https://mch.govt.nz/nz-identity-heritage/flags/national-m%C4%81ori-flag
      
      and the United Tribes Flag
      https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/taming-the-frontier/united-tribes-flag
      
      I saw a number of these 2 flags being carried by the protestors.
      
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      November 9, 2021 4:02pm
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      From what I saw, all of the speakers were Maori (though that is coincidental, as their speeches did not relate to their race). The power structure cannot hide what is obvious to anyone with a brain and functioning eyes any longer. The tide of resistance will only grow as it becomes apparent that there is a very large proportion of dissidents, despite the approved narrative. Not one of those clowns in Parliament came out to face and address the citizens, for obvious reasons.
      
      The huge turnout, the singing of our anthem, the many NZ flags waving, the collegial vibe, and the “you serve us!” chant were highlights. If the Freedom and Rights Coalition run for office, they’ve got my vote, that’s for certain. I was very impressed.
      
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      November 9, 2021 4:26pm
- jon
  
  Parliament Buildings in complete lockdown with thousands outside. No doubt the Govt fear a Capitol Buildings invasion like on Jan 6th 2021.
  
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  November 9, 2021 2:57pm
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    They can’t hide from reality any longer. When the “leaders” are hiding from the “led”, I think we can know who the good guys are.
    
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    November 9, 2021 4:51pm
BananaLlama

If Labour can close down oil and gas exploration then we can close down their government institutions.
If the media call us a mob of protesters then they we can call them an unemployed mob of journalists.
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November 9, 2021 9:39am
- hullkiwi
  
  Don’t worry, the government have been working on it.
  Since August government department telephonist have been rostered to work as contact tracers – try ringing a government agency; and
  Then there are the vaccine mandates. Interesting situation now, most of those front line workers who hot their first shot in April/May are now due a booster. If they don’t get a booster soon, do they need to be redeployed?
  
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  November 9, 2021 2:34pm
Over Taxed Worker

Another round of MIQ lottery this morning.
More state imposed torture.
Meanwhile I see in the NZH that a COVID-19 positive guy lived in his car for 6 days to isolate from his family, as no more spots in MIQ to isolate (2000+ and counting).
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November 9, 2021 10:06am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

A study out of California which I have been made privy to, shows more than 25,000 tons of PPE gear and other types of ‘Covid-related’ plastic waste has entered the Earths oceans. Along with an estimated 8.4 million tons of pandemic-linked plastic waste which has been generated by 193 countries since the start of the pandemic….most of it medical waste from hospitals
Even worser, the model suggests that almost three-quarters of it is likely to wash up on beaches by the end of the year 🙁

We got 6 more bags of the lego compatible plastic bricks from Countdown this morning as well.
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November 9, 2021 10:07am
- dcrane
  
  You just reminded me I need to go buy another roll of those plastic rubbish bags that replace the (smaller!) ones I used to re-use after carrying stuff back from the supermarket.
  
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  November 9, 2021 10:19am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I know!
    We buy those rolls of ‘ARMADA’ Kitchen Bags by the 100’s now 😀
    
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    November 9, 2021 11:23am
- Lucia Maria
  
  Every time I go to the supermarket, can see multiple discarded masks floating around.
  
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  November 9, 2021 11:30am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Supermarkets (Countdown anyway) provide them just in case you sort of accidently forget to buy you own. Outside, the bins are full of them as well as all over the carpark
    
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    November 9, 2021 3:26pm
- Observer of Life
  
  I love you Maggie!!
  
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  November 9, 2021 1:19pm
krazykiwi

I love innovation. Scottish nightclubs have got around the vax mandate (for now) by putting chairs on the dancefloor.

Lulu, a major nightclub in Edinburgh, has begun marketing itself to unvaccinated Scots by advertising the fact that door staff will not be carrying out checks on whether customers have been jabbed.

Nightclubs and other venues, such as stadiums and concert venues hosting major events, have been legally obliged to check customers’ vaccination records in Scotland since last month.

However, despite describing itself as “Edinburgh’s best nightclub” and being open until 3am, Lulu said it technically no longer qualified as a nightclub under Scottish government rules because it had placed seats on its dance floor.

In several social media posts promoting the changes, introduced at the weekend, the venue boasted that “normal service” had resumed and added: “You don’t need [a] vaccine passport to party with us.”

Under the legal definition, only venues with a space “provided for dancing by customers” are classed as a nightclub, meaning those that install seating instead can claim they are outside the scheme’s scope. Hospitality industry representatives said clubs across Scotland were exploiting the loophole so they could ignore vaccine passport rules.
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November 9, 2021 10:13am
- Inandout
  
  krazy, that is why I love capitalism, it brings out the best in people.
  
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  November 9, 2021 10:25am
Jack5

Stuff is talking up house prices today, or at least talking away any bubble burst.

Word must have come down from Ardern via the Democracy Reporting Project cash line. Ardern wants house prices to stay in the stratosphere.

Gareth Kiernan, of Infometrics, puts his neck on the line in the Stuff article saying population growth will come back “and could be more significant than expected”.

And Rosie Collins says it’s hard to imagine a price collapse “unless people were being forced to sell their homes at lower prices – usually by an inability to pay the mortgage.”

That’s what happens when property bubbles pop, Rosie.

Time to remember a famous quote by Andrew Mellon, US Treasury Secretary, after a minor scare in September 1929, before the great crash of October 1929: “There is no cause to worry. The high tide of prosperity will continue.”

The Stuff puff:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300449314/heres-why-it-might-be-fruitless-to-pin-your-hopes-on-a-house-price-crash
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November 9, 2021 10:19am
krazykiwi

Interesting. Do mRNA Covid vaccines interfere with the development of natural immunity following Sars-Cov-2 infection?

A fascinating paper in the Journal of the American Medical Association hints the answer may be yes
:::

Vaccinated individuals with prior infection 6 months or more before dose 1 had statistically significantly lower risk for breakthrough infection than those vaccinated less than 6 months before dose 1 (adjusted hazard ratio, 0.62 [95% CI, 0.42-0.92]; P = .02 for BNT162b2 and 0.40 [95% CI, 0.18-0.91]; P = .03 for mRNA-1273 vaccination).
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November 9, 2021 10:19am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Even assuming that your second “vaccinated” is a typo for “infected” – the quote does not support your interpretation.
  
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  November 9, 2021 11:13am
  - krazykiwi
    
    The typo was in the original paper. I clearly interpret the quote differently to you.
    
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    November 9, 2021 12:44pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  This is possibly the best 5 minute video you will see today. British Medical Journal editor. Where has he been the last 18 months???
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvM5meOXk9o
  
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  November 9, 2021 1:24pm
Lucia Maria

Massive protest in Sydney, Australia over the weekend against segregation, for healing.

Thousands rally to ReclaimTheLine in Parramatta
| YouTube video | Rebel News
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November 9, 2021 10:20am
- Inandout
  
  LM, loved the ‘warning’ from Youtube.
  
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  November 9, 2021 10:28am
- Bridgenag
  
  Was that reported in last nights news? [Don’t watch]
  
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  November 9, 2021 11:03am
Libertarians are right

Rittenhouse case update:

Third “victim” who got shot in the arm and survived:
“Yes – Rittenhouse only lifted his gun and shot me after I aimed my gun at him”

You can actually see the prosecutor with his head in his hands.

At this point, the Prosecutor’s sole argument seems to be that Rittenhouse holding his gun was active provocation for these people to try to kill him with the explicit intention of allowing him to kill them instead (yes – this is the only way they get around self defense and the fact he was fleeing).

It’s moronic and doesn’t even pass a balance of probabilities test, let alone beyond reasonable doubt.
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November 9, 2021 10:28am
Rusty

Why are our senior citizens living to longer ages than say 20-30 years ago?

Better medical science is the reason.

So this narrative from our govt and medical authorities and people who accept it as the gospel that the unvaxxed are more likely to kill their Grandma or Granddad does not hold true.

The facts are the majority of our elderly die from strokes, infections, flus, colds, heart disease, and diabetes NOT the covid virus.

And while science has extended the life spans of many of our elderly to keep living in their 80s and 90s they will eventually die of something — that is just a reality.

Un-vaxxed people are not killers of the elderly or of anyone.
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November 9, 2021 10:46am
gorse

Apparently traffic is backed up for miles getting into Wellington. Huge protest going to happen there. I wonder if it gets news coverage?
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November 9, 2021 10:46am
- Mrs_Right
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-lockdown-protesters-gather-in-wellington-to-march-to-parliament/CBKYYEU26TOTM3V7MPOTGGSWYA/
  
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  November 9, 2021 11:14am
- Gravelroad
  
  On Ya Wellington!
  Thousands marching on parliament and so far $tuff seemingly unable to find some way to manipulate the numbers downstairs to protect their government and St Jacinda.
  
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  November 9, 2021 11:51am
- Lucia Maria
  
  Barry Soper on Newstalk ZB mentioned there were 1000’s of very noisy protestors around parliament right now. Thinks Jacinda will be able to see them from her window.
  
  Journo’s are interviewing some, remains to be seen what will be reported.
  
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  November 9, 2021 12:20pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    Jacinda says the protestors don’t represent ordinary New Zealanders (NewsHub).
    
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    November 9, 2021 2:39pm
    - Clownworld
      
      Was this Dr JSpin using her communicative speech disease by cleverly dissing the protesters by celebrating the compliant jab me jab me hoi polloi?
      
      Or is she saying that there are different classes of people?
      I guess what she meant is that the extraordinary NZers were the ones marching by saying well done to ordinary NZers?
      
      JSpin is one of us?
      But which us ?
      
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      November 9, 2021 7:55pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Are there bigger numbers than Extinction Rebellion could muster?
  
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  November 9, 2021 12:31pm
Andrei

Kenosha, Wisconsin got burned down during the riots last year

Every Car in a couple of dealerships got put to the torch

Who is on trial – a guy who was protecting businesses from the arsonists after he shot some rioters

This testimony from one of the victims is devastating…

…devastating for the prosectuion that is

https://rumble.com/vowssj-gaige-grosskreutz-forced-to-acknowledge-he-pointed-gun-at-kyle-rittenhouse-.html
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November 9, 2021 10:48am
- kowtow
  
  Riots you say ?
  
  Racial justice protests is the correct term.
  
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  November 9, 2021 10:58am
rangitoto

MIT (no not Manukau tech) designed high temperature superconducting magnet breaking magnetic field strength records, paving the way for practical fusion power.

Maybe it really is “thirty years away”.

https://news.mit.edu/2021/MIT-CFS-major-advance-toward-fusion-energy-0908
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November 9, 2021 10:48am
- Ed Snack
  
  Maybe, maybe not. I still think that Fusion is the power of the future, and always will be…
  
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  November 9, 2021 11:18am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Check out Helion, they have a compact (couple of shipping containers sized) non-superconducting pulsed fusion reactor design that is nearing breakeven. Privately funded and expecting to run an economic (not just theoretical breakeven) design in a couple of years, commercial plants in less than a decade
  
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  November 9, 2021 11:31am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    They have competition. Others are producing 18.5Kw out of a device 20cm cubed. Another has a small unit underway which the light it creates will be picked up by a special PV array and converted direct to electricity.
    Next year should be very interesting.
    
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    November 9, 2021 2:39pm
  - Hard Cheese
    
    I really hope they succeed, for no other reason it would sink the entire Climate Change industry and shut James Shaw up once and for all.
    
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    November 9, 2021 3:10pm
- marcw
  
  Will require an insane amount of koha – fuel source is water.
  
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  November 9, 2021 12:28pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    One such device is getting hydrogen from the atmosphere gratis.
    
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    November 9, 2021 6:14pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I have heard of a fridge sized nuclear heat source that once set up generates electricity. Your plant stays in place, and when the heat source is exhausted it is taken away to be refined, and a new one is installed. About 30 would power Auckland.
  Look – look – look, over there, anti nuke wankers frothing at the mouth
  
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  November 9, 2021 3:43pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    You are not going to make a 50MW reactor generating electricity the size of a fridge. At a minimum more like the size of a house (including lots of huge cooling fans). Event the reacfor unit itself will be the size of a Bus, and the balance of plant will be many times bigger.
    
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    November 9, 2021 4:00pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I have seen this but I can’t remember the name
      
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      November 10, 2021 3:15pm
Lucia Maria

Recommend GBNews for anyone who hasn’t come across it yet. It’s a relatively new online news service based in the UK that takes on the other side of many issues that the legacy media refuses to engage with.

They also know we exist here in NZ, Jacinda Ardern is mentioned relatively frequently in terms of the increasingly illiberal trend of society.

Besides challenging the COVID narrative, they are also taking on other politically incorrect stories. Some recent stories, all on YouTube:

Pronoun policing is a modern day purity test says Colin Brazier

Kellie-Jay Keen – Distinct lack of balls when it comes to standing up for women

Dan Wootton – There must be a referendum on Net Zero
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November 9, 2021 11:00am
doggone7

We often have people holding Singapore up as a model we should copy.

“Eighty-five per cent of people in Singapore eligible for coronavirus vaccines are fully vaccinated, and 18 per cent have received booster shots.

But the Singaporean government said Monday (local time) that it will no longer cover the medical costs of people “unvaccinated by choice,” who make up the bulk of remaining new Covid-19 cases and hospitalisations in the city-state.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/300449485/singapore-unvaccinated-by-choice-cant-get-free-covid19-treatment
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November 9, 2021 11:02am
- krazykiwi
  
  Interesting isn’t it. I guess a morbidly obese, Type II diabetes sufferer who is admitted with chest pains will be covered. So will someone who breaks their back mountain biking. So will a 40-per-day smoker with lung cancer. So will someone who … well, you get the idea.
  
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  November 9, 2021 1:59pm
Surely Knott

Breaking from the Telegraph: More than 11,000 people have caught Covid and died after being admitted to NHS hospitals for other ailments, The Telegraph can disclose.
MPs have condemned the figures as a “scandal”

Perhaps we should have invested in our hospitals to reduce disease spread – no more crowded emergency waiting rooms – sit in your car until you are texted to come in , more hospital infrastructure, seperated rooms, negative pressure room. Less crowding. Ventilation. etc.
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November 9, 2021 11:26am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Well ventilated hayshed type literal ‘field’ hospitals would be better for minimizing transmission.
  
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  November 9, 2021 4:03pm
I remember when

“Government announces insurance scheme for large summer events.”
So a Government insurance scheme for a problem largely of their own making.
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November 9, 2021 11:32am
- Ruawai
  
  Govt must be friends with organisers, no other industry has had 90% of their costs covid due to Covid lockdown.
  
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  November 9, 2021 1:24pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    except for the public service – teachers hospitals etc, all paid for by the money tree, regardless of how little they were being utilised. Labour govt looking after those who vote for it (public servants)
    
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    November 9, 2021 4:55pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Providing cover for Rhythm & Vines, I imagine.
    
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    November 9, 2021 6:21pm
    - Clownworld
      
      If it’s woke will go broke.
      Mind you the govt is woke they just keep stealing money from the future taxpayers yet to be born.
      
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      November 9, 2021 8:01pm
I remember when

Dear Air New Zealand,
I have obviously missed that bit of science.
Perhaps you could advise me as to exactly what the benefits are to vaccinated passengers and crew, of excluding unvaccinated travellers.
Especially interested as I am a part, very small, of the public ownership of your company.
Yours in eager expectation, etc.
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November 9, 2021 11:37am
- Clownworld
  
  Part of its woke communist corporate pledge to welcome diversity and inclusion into the workforce and now extending the socialist fist to their customers. Social justice and compliance to the dictates of global goverance is more scientfic than science.
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:06pm
skyblue

Kyle Rittenhouse is a hero. Loved the term in the video where his ‘victim’ said ‘vaporized my bicep’.
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November 9, 2021 11:41am
Lucia Maria

Oh my.

Disinformation in Aoteoroa has escalated since Delta outbreak

Completely out of touch researchers – really need to look at the messaging coming directly out of government and the media.

So many examples, starting from many politicians and media saying they don’t want unvaccinated people in the same space as them. Downhill from there.
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November 9, 2021 12:00pm
- Lucia Maria
  
  LOL, 100 fold increase in activity since August .. lockdowns and mandates will do that.
  
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  November 9, 2021 12:07pm
- graham
  
  I see that story is on Stuff, who are so partisan and agenda driven that there is no way I would trust them on anything that is even vaguely contentious.
  
  I wouldn’t necessarily accuse Stuff of spreading disinformation, but I definitely find them to be guilty of spreading misinformation in various ways.
  
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  November 9, 2021 12:24pm
  - Clownworld
    
    The only thing that is consistent is the propaganda approach to invading culture by changing the meaning of words and making up new ones.
    Misinformation and disinformation is of course subjective reinterpretations of what is the truth. Simply put they are lies, intentional or not.
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:10pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  A fine example of just how low in the gutter NZ mainstream media are. Completely clueless and full of garbled “wokeisms”.
  Will we ever get real journalism back again? I used to really enjoy reading articles from all sides of the political spectrum from people who could at least write intelligibly.
  
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  November 9, 2021 12:38pm
  - Flossie
    
    Just cast my eye over the NZH. I am disgusted that they feature a piece about the PM’s child getting out of bed!!! I do not want or need to know the domestic arrangements of those people. Utter utter fluff!!!
    
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    November 9, 2021 4:00pm
    - Observer of Life
      
      Sorry Floss.. down ticked by accident!!
      
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      November 9, 2021 11:58pm
- hullkiwi
  
  Did you notice they didn’t give an example of all the disinformation being circulated, and they seemed more intent on smearing people with extremist labels as being the parties responsible.
  
  Which shows the report is disinformation (from a public funded study) aimed at misinforming.
  
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  November 9, 2021 2:46pm
  - Clownworld
    
    Ministry of Labels and Shouts.
    
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    November 9, 2021 8:12pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Also main items on disinformation and the Parliament protest on Prime News, RNZ 5pm News, TV One news.
  
  Looks like a pretty coordinated effort by the MSM.
  
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  November 9, 2021 6:25pm
westernScientest

wellington looks rather busy today
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November 9, 2021 12:04pm
Truman lodge

Rawiri Jannsen and Michael Baker on the 12pm news saying Auckland should be treated like an external border and it’s unwise to let Aucklanders spread covid around Nz over Xmas.

OK if Auckland remains a city prison then all of nz should be put in level 3..
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November 9, 2021 12:17pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Easy for Baker to say when you are at the bottom of the South Island
  
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  November 9, 2021 1:33pm
  - alex Masterley
    
    Stev, Baker is in Wellington.
    
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    November 9, 2021 1:57pm
    - Leofric
      
      He should be in a soundproof room, well locked and secured.
      
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      November 9, 2021 2:09pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      My mistake I guess. Professor at the University of Otago lives in Wellington?
      
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      November 9, 2021 3:49pm
      - Ehlana
        
        Apparently the University of Otago now has facilities in Wellington. (https://www.otago.ac.nz/wellington/index.html).
        Bit like Massey having a campus in Auckland, I guess.
        
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        November 9, 2021 3:53pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Yeah Ehlana, just up the road to Albany we go through a socialist porthole Massey. Ends not so far after
        
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        November 9, 2021 4:38pm
- krazykiwi
  
  treated like an external border
  
  *sigh*
  
  And how did that work when we had a 2500km sea border? Mmm? These idiots have no idea. Seriously. Containment measures that would have made Stalin blush would only ever slightly slow transmission.
  
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  November 9, 2021 3:52pm
Lucia Maria

Live stream of protest in Wellington here on BFD
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November 9, 2021 12:26pm
- Fletch
  
  MASSIVE!
  
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  November 9, 2021 12:31pm
Gravelroad

One of the residents on the Gravelroad attended the farmers’ march on Parliament in 1986.
Estimated 14,000 from all over NZ marched – protesting about the Labour government’s scorch and burn “reforms”.
Top dressing aircraft did aerobatics above the beehive.
My friend recalls the “huge support” the marchers received from the Wellington bystanders.
The Leader of the Opposition, Mr Robert Muldoon,
addressed the crowd from the beehive steps.
No Labour Party ministers or MP’s made an appearance.
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November 9, 2021 12:27pm
- MCos
  
  Former Leader of the Opposition.
  
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  November 9, 2021 1:05pm
  - MCos
    
    Jim Bolger was the Leader of the Nats at that time, having replaced Jim McLay, who Muldoon had the knives out for after he replaced him at the end of 1984.
    Richard Prebble is not shy about expressing his opinions. Maybe he could explain the causes of the 1986 farmers’ protest?
    
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    November 9, 2021 3:34pm
    - Inandout
      
      MCos, Diamond Jim was merely a fill in and the farmers’ protests at the time were mostly because the cushy subsidies were removed. Roger Douglas had to slash and burn or else NZ would end up bankrupt; much like we are now heading for.
      
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      November 9, 2021 4:07pm
70andstilllearning

Sheeesh From:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300449296/covid19-live-thousands-descend-on-parliament-in-protest-of-covid-mandates

When the likes of Cooke, Daly & $tuff in general post this kind of sh*t you really have to wonder about the vacant space between their ears. Last sentence!!

“From Henry Cooke
Many more protestors just arrived at Parliament and are filling the lawn.
A man holding a “media treason” sign with swastikas covered his face while talking to media – saying we were complicit in “taking our freedom from us.”
He had travelled down from Taranaki.Some protesters are throwing water at journalists. A few bottles of petrol have been spotted underneath the DJ table – but this may just be for a generator.”
Michael Daly

Would have been posted just before midday.
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November 9, 2021 12:52pm
- dcrane
  
  Gross bias infecting all MSM reporting on the protest. Emphasis on the bikies, supposed threats of violence, risks to security in Parliament, claimed Trump flags in the crowd….I didn’t see any of this in an hour’s worth of watching raw video on Facebook.
  
  No way this would have been the tone had it been a climate protest.
  
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  November 9, 2021 1:23pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    From their whine paragraphs in the article”
    
    “Fact-checked stories like this are vital to NZ’s Covid-19 response.
    Make a contribution
    
    Rumours and political spin can make it difficult for Kiwis to get vital pandemic information. Our journalists only use reliable sources, verified facts and accurate data. We’re committed to ensuring every New Zealander can trust what they’re being told about cases, health advice, locations of interest and vaccinations.
    
    By making a contribution to Stuff you’ll help safeguard the reporting that so many Kiwis rely on in times of crisis – the live streams, the alerts, the email newsletters and the hundreds of stories we produce every day.
    
    If you value facts and truth, please become a Stuff supporter today.”
    
    Presuming “bottles of petrol…… ” was fact checked by Cooke – yes?? Maybe he went and had a sniff!!
    
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    November 9, 2021 2:08pm
    - Leofric
      
      Never mind the petrol, there’s more than a whiff there of that notorious “single source of truth” statement from Ardern.
      
      But speaking of petrol, it’s about the only thing I’d pour on Stuff if it was on fire.
      
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      November 9, 2021 4:03pm
- Gravelroad
  
  @ still standing:
  Some of these reporters, “journalists” and opinion writers may now realise that there are thousands of citizens really fed up with them and their paid for devotion to Ms Ardern and her party of incompetents.
  Spin and twist it all you like, but the purposely dumbed-downed journalism standards in this country are abysmal.
  
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  November 9, 2021 1:39pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Grav – I think the precious little petals are starting to feel nervous.
    “Stuff reporters were verbally abused.”
    
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    November 9, 2021 2:14pm
    - jon
      
      They are lucky its only verbal given their outrageous Govt narrative.
      
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      November 9, 2021 3:07pm
  - Prince
    
    I don’t understand how editors can look at their Opinion writers, and cartoonists, and not understand that 95% Left-leaning Govt supporters does not represent diversity in any way.
    Is it that hard to find some conservative opinion writers in NZ ?
    There is real resentment growing, especially towards TVOne, newspapers and RNZ. Increasingly we are turning to overseas publications to get some balance.
    
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    November 9, 2021 3:14pm
- westernScientest
  
  Would add this one from the same stream, although it is a quote from one of there own articles
  
  Highlighted in the research is the link to far-right extremists in the USA. Researchers say they are using anti-vaccination sentiments as a Trojan Horse to spread their own far-right ideologies including co-opting Māori sovereignty symbology and phrases such as tino rangatiratanga, mana motuhake and whakaputanga.
  
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  November 9, 2021 1:49pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Funny that all the speakers I saw in a skim of speakers on video were big (but not fat) brown people in suits, surrounded by other big brown people in suits (with sunnies on).
    
    Probably some of those ‘white supremacists’ we have been hearing so much about.
    Enemedia.
    
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    November 9, 2021 4:14pm
Fletch

Looks like the head protester just gave Jacinda a deadline. She has until Friday to get rid of the mandates and open up the country otherwise there will be national gridlock.
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November 9, 2021 12:56pm
- MCos
  
  So it’s lockdown & gridlock.
  
  13 8
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  November 9, 2021 1:07pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Very easy (and cheap) to terminally foul up commuter traffic in these health and safety afflicted times, particularly in wellington and auckland. Surprises me that no political group has ever done it (various green twats in UK have been showing how it is done in recent months).
  
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  November 9, 2021 4:11pm
Ehlana

From the second verse of our national anthem:

From dissension, envy, hate,
And corruption guard our state,
Make our country good and great,
God defend New Zealand.

Dissension, envy and hate seem to be what this government is sowing, rather than guarding us from.
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November 9, 2021 1:13pm
- Leofric
  
  That is the third verse, Ehlana. You forgot to take into account the Maori verse that comes at the very start.
  
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  November 9, 2021 4:00pm
- hullkiwi
  
  Ehlana, I’ve just done a quick read of the Standard. Oh dear…..
  
  There are the usual Jacinda apologists and spinmeisters (aka Neal Jones etc) trying to spread the govt’s usual agenda rhetoric e.g.
  Right wing extremists;
  Links to Trump & what happened in Washington in January;
  Jax saying the protestors do not represent real New Zealanders; and
  Mallard weighing in about the security of Parliament.
  
  Then there are smarter heads who realise the govt’s narrative is going to far with smears of extremism and making Maori the victim- when Maori have been front & centre of the vaccine programmes.
  
  To the Labour trolls, Jax, Neil Jones and Mike Williams (amShow this morning) are all wrong. Their language is all wrong, they are segregating people and they are creating two classes of people’s with disinformation, lies and misinformation.
  
  I’ll give you an example, 2 months ago Jax & co were back peddling (denying even) when it was found NZ did not have enough vaccine for first doses. A week later further doses arrived & all was OK, but at the same time when it was being reported from abroad that not just 2 jabs of the vaccine was required, but that we needed booster shots also, denials as the necessity of booster jabs were very quick from Jax & St Ash. And then today and yesterday, local news has been full of plans for booster shots. So who is guilty of disinformation/misinformation then? Could it be Jacinda (I cannot forsee any reason why it is necessary to lie in politics) Arden?
  
  Finally, for Ducky Mallard, and cthe Labour trolls, a few months ago the govt & the paid for MSM were commemorating the events of August/September 1981, and with that I give you Molesworth Street August 1981. And the response of the then Prime Minister, “they don’t represent ordinary Kiwis, they are just, reds, commies and lefties..” and the legacy of Muldoon….? He sowed division….
  
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  November 9, 2021 4:20pm
Leofric

It must have been a hell of a party, but I don’t remember it at all. Even more disturbing, I don’t drink at all, so someone must have spiked my soda water. Whatever happened, after 50 years in a pleasant, wealthy, developed first world nation called New Zealand, I’ve woken up with a hell of a headache to find myself in an authoritarian socialist shithole called Aotearoa.

Prank’s over guys, it’s not funny anymore. Moving my bed while I’m sleeping it off is getting old. Next thing you’ll be telling me Nanaia Mahuta is the foreign minister and she’s off overseas to represent us on the world stage. How dreadfully fucking embarrassing that would be.
29 1
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November 9, 2021 2:06pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Leofric
  
  She is
  
  Aus/Indonesia/Qatar/UAE/Canada/USA
  
  1 1
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  November 9, 2021 4:13pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Jaspinda will not make UN, but Mahuta will with flying colours after Labour lose the Election. United Nations Development Programme
  
  8 3
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  November 9, 2021 4:44pm
  - Mike
    
    Only two years til the next election, Steve. I hope you don’t spend all of that time feeling angry.
    
    2 6
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    November 9, 2021 5:14pm
BananaLlama

So the unemployed mob of Journalists are crying that their work for the dole scheme is being bullied by protesters in Wellington.
The poor dears not use to this kind of treatment at all.
20 0
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November 9, 2021 2:12pm
I remember when

As I gazed at the crowd shots during the Scotland vs Australia game at Murrayfield, my mind drifted onto thoughts of masks.
Obviously most of the people crowding the stands were not of similar thoughts.
Well may there have been a call for, “a mask, a mask, my kingdom for a mask.”
Barely a single kingdom would have changed hands.
Scottish covid totals for 8 November, 2021:
2012 Cases, 54 people in intensive care, 803 in hospital with recently confirmed covid-19.
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November 9, 2021 2:22pm
herb1

Don’t forget the corruption bit, as paying media to promote the Governments “new” version of the treaty, can be described as nothing else
14 2
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November 9, 2021 2:32pm
Fletch

Jacinda is tone deaf, saying “what we saw [in the protests] was not reflective of the vast bulk of New Zealanders. [W]hat we saw today was not representative of the vast majority of New Zealanders”.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-125-cases-on-eve-of-auckland-alert-level-change/3B2TNIAPPAXVXGCROITOWHS6ZU/

It fkn was Jacinda. There are protests going on all over the country. The people have had enough. Especially of your mandates creating two classes of people in our country. The traffic light system is divisive and not something to be proud of. It’s a disgrace.
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November 9, 2021 2:40pm
- Leofric
  
  From what I’ve seen, the media is trying to paint the protest as a gathering of anti-vax crazies. But that’s not what I’ve seen on social media, etc.
  
  21 1
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  November 9, 2021 3:57pm
Benedict Yu

I would have no issues with the death penalty for this person,

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/126930741/doublekidnapping-blackmail-and-beatings-at-hands-of-prez-of-the-black-power-sisters
12 2
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November 9, 2021 2:56pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  Even if she KILLED someone in NZ, she wouldn’t get that.
  She might, if lucky, actually do jail time if the cultural report, time served, or other mitigating factors don’t make her eligible for home detention.
  
  It is amazing to contemplate the types of irredeemable human garbage that live amongst us.
  Best we can hope for, is they don’t live next to us….
  
  But yes, some types of animal it just makes sense to ‘put them to sleep’.
  I can appreciate that, but tell it to compassionate Kelvin Davis and Andrew Little & Co.
  
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  November 9, 2021 4:25pm
Truman lodge

It seems we are at a crossroads. Either Ardern goes or the personality cult is taken to the next level with msm assistance.

Visits to schools where kids sing for jacinda and visits to new demographic projects with flowers and cheers. Remember when the polynesian comunnity ordained her on a thrown [throne] for dawn raid apologies.

It’s how it starts and who says she won’t end up like Gurbanguly Berdimuhamedov or Kim jong un, Mugabe etc. The Turkmenistan president sings and worksout etc. It can easily compound as she loses popularity.
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November 9, 2021 3:13pm
- Mike
  
  Who says it won’t end with her demanding Anschluss with Australia and then launching a bloody war of conquest across the world?
  
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  November 9, 2021 5:18pm
igm

Not a word about demonstrations on NewstalkZB. Shame taxpayers are funding Ardern’s compliant media to suppress information they feel is damaging to the communist PM. Hope advertisers take note . . . potential customers should.
17 2
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November 9, 2021 3:17pm
CAKE FACE1

I think that the Prime Minister Cindy most resembles is Sir Robert Muldoon.

He was an authoritarian socialist, a lover of central planning, and a nasty person. Of course, in 1981, he enabled the Springbok Tour.

What will be Cindy’s Springbok Tour moment? Will she need to reform the “Red Squad” (with the reprehensible Meurant), to save her government from the mob?

Perhaps she will, for her wedding.

I have the feeling that tens of thousands of unwanted protestors could turn up to Gisborne to protest against her.

In normal circumstances, I would say that this would be inappropriate, but these circumstances aren’t normal.

Cindy has labelled 10% of the population to be untermensch, and threatened to send them East (“don’t worry about your luggage, it will get to you”).

Under these circumstances, Cindy has it comin’ to her, in my view.

I hope that the protestors burst through the police barriers, like they did at Rugby Park in Hamilton in 1981, and protest inside the wedding venue.

Cindy deserves no less…
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November 9, 2021 3:39pm
dcrane

This Herald article about the protests has some passages in it that remind me of the fake news around the 6th of Jan. Capitol riot in the US:

“Protesters made their way onto Parliament’s forecourt earlier this afternoon after breaching the first set of gates.

There is still a set of gates preventing them from accessing the steps leading to Parliament buildings.”

I watched more than an hour of this on facebook, some right in front of the Beehive. Everything looked peaceful. What was this “first set of gates”? Is there any video evidence of the “breaching” process? In the FBI psyop that was the “Insurrection” in the US a soft fence/screen separating the area in front of the Capitol was moved aside by unknown people long before most protestors arrived, essentially creating a trap allowing the FBI to prosecute them for trespassing later.

In any event, the Herald text is obviously meant to gin up the appearance of a threat to parliament. Watch out, NZ.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-lockdown-protesters-arrive-at-parliament-challenging-covid-restrictions/CBKYYEU26TOTM3V7MPOTGGSWYA/
11 3
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November 9, 2021 3:48pm
- Bridgenag
  
  There were 3 versions on You tube The first was the one stuff uploaded [ now gone from 2 minutes to 32 seconds], the second made it look like a picnic in the park and I gave up on the third when Jessica came out to smooth the waters
  
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  November 9, 2021 5:09pm
Truman lodge

Anybody got a copy of taking the lead?

It child’s book worshipping our leader.
3 0
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November 9, 2021 4:10pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  If lead is in the plumbob sense then that comment is dreadful.
  
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  November 9, 2021 7:12pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    When Jacinda was little, she wanted to be a clown. But when she saw schoolmates who didn’t have lunch, or even shoes, she knew she had to do something. Some kids laughed at her for wanting to help people so much, or said she couldn’t do it. But that didn’t stop Jacinda.
    
    https://www.penguin.co.nz/books/taking-the-lead-9780143774518
    
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    November 9, 2021 7:41pm
    - graham
      
      I feel slightly queasy …
      
      6 0
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      November 9, 2021 7:58pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/taxpayer_talk_nanaia_mahuta?utm_campaign=211009_mahutaquestions&utm_medium=email&utm_source=taxpayers
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November 9, 2021 4:24pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  ‘I would have liked the time to answer all of your questions’ after being cut.
  Fucking bullshit! What did anyone learn from Mahuta?
  
  5 3
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  November 9, 2021 4:30pm
Maggy Wassilieff

I have the feeling that tens of thousands of unwanted protestors could turn up to Gisborne to protest against her.

I could accomodate a few indoors…and perhaps 50 or so camping in tents. One outdoor shower available…
16 4
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November 9, 2021 4:50pm
- Mike
  
  If the protesters I saw in Wellington today were a representative sample, I doubt that personal hygiene will be high on their agenda should any of them turn up in Gisborne.
  
  6 6
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  November 9, 2021 5:22pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggy, I am sure Daddy could arrange a wedding in Raro or some such island and Clarke could go fishing afterwards. I am beginning to think Gisborne is cursed as a wedding venue.
  
  11 2
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  November 9, 2021 5:44pm
- Aquataur
  
  Have you room for a campervan?
  
  7 0
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  November 9, 2021 6:34pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep
    
    5 0
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    November 9, 2021 7:37pm
Prince

Odd to read the media outrage at tennis balls being thrown at Parliament.
I remember the dildo-thrower, which struck a cabinet minister, being greeted as a hero by the media. She even appeared last year on Seven Sharp and was hailed as a celebrity.
Not to mention Ardern’s favourite band who recorded a song about raping John Key’s daughter. Such japes !
I guess it all depends on what party you support. And we know what party the media support.
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November 9, 2021 5:26pm
K

How to write a public interest journalism article (as demonstrated in this article https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-vaccine-certificates-are-coming-heres-how-theyll-work/JIRAGRCPJJBJ745ZV3EMFJXVLY/)

1. Take an item of policy that the party wants to implement but is a bit problematic (we use vaccine certificates in our demonstration article).

2. Make sure to demonstrate to the party that you have cleared your mind of any potential counter arguments to the policy (our article has a cute example, dismissing security fears about the software with a casual “as with anything online there’s always some security risks, but every reasonable precaution has been taken to protect the system”.

3. Briefly dismiss any criticisms of the policy that the people may have seen – but don’t dwell, remembering that the key to public interest journalism is to take the public’s interest away from the policy’s detractors (very nicely done here with: “An IT security expert recently made the news by claiming the My Covid Record site was insecure. In short, the claims were exaggerated and lacked context. Even shorter: they were nonsense.”).

4. Writing for a government that struggles to do everything except ban things can be hard. Sometimes you will have to assume things on the party’s behalf to save it from embarrassment. This will usually be necessary where something is still unresolved by bumbling officials, yet so obviously easy to do that this might cause embarrassment (our article has a suitable example: “While the final implementation details aren’t public yet, it seems there’ll be a way for My Covid Record to generate a copy of your vaccine pass that you can print out or save to your phone”).

5. Add a subtle reminder to the people that our socialist government, under its dear leader, benevolently allows them to do the things they do (our example ends with a dry grin: “The good news is that once you’ve jumped these boring administrative hurdles, freedom awaits – or at least, the closest approximation available during the plague times.”).

6. Add the “Public interest journalism funded through NZ on Air” tagline at the end of the article. This is to remind you, the author, of who paid you to write the piece. It may be dropped as a requirement after the next election, when all media will be moving to the public interest journalism model via the ban on private journalism payments.

7. Collect your share of the $55 million, the party values your contribution to public debate on the important issues facing our communities.

Oh shit, you forgot to mention the Treaty of Waitangi created a partnership. Try again.
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November 9, 2021 5:40pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300450012/covid19-nz-jacinda-ardern-says-protest-outside-parliament-not-representative-of-vast-bulk-of-kiwis
Jacinda “refudes” the right of NEW ZEALANDERS to express THEIR views.
What a delusional bitch.
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November 9, 2021 5:40pm
- dcrane
  
  But when schoolteachers herd their captive students into the streets for a “School Strike for Climate” we’re all supposed to bow down to their moral authority.
  
  20 1
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  November 9, 2021 5:59pm
- Mrs_Right
  
  Are those protesters not part of her ‘team of 5 million’??
  
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  November 9, 2021 8:44pm
- skyblue
  
  They are not us.
  
  1 0
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  November 9, 2021 9:08pm
Aquataur

Given her rural background (Morrinsville), is it appropriate to state

Jacinda is a country member ?

I’m sure that this has been said in Parliament and recorded as OK
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November 9, 2021 6:03pm
Fletch

Total propaganda by 1 News tonight on the protests, saying it is because of “misinformation” online which is “racist, violent and misogynistic.” What a total crock. How about just reporting the news and not putting your own spin on it?
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November 9, 2021 6:08pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Same with 3. Suspect the PM PR team had this in hand. Funny part was 3 had a piece a bit later about equipment being supplied to those in isolation. Sounded as if the DGH had said something that didn’t appear to be true. They didn’t seem to cotton that that was misinformation as well.
  
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  November 9, 2021 7:06pm
- Cobolt24
  
  I laughed when I heard that. In the many videos I’ve seen, there was nothing racist, violent and absolutely nothing misogynistic or to do with gender.
  I bet they saw none of that too yet needlessly had to shove their identity politics down our throat, at least that one individual academic(?) who was asked
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:09pm
- igm
  
  Got to follow orders to keep leeching taxpayers’ subsistence fund. Must see the pro-Ardern spin gets through to those still silly enough to believe her . . . like Ardern, just bare faced liars.
  
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  November 10, 2021 12:29am
Maggie Pie

Just enjoying a chilled Chablis and watching 1Ewes.

My partner reckons now that Sav no longer wears a tie, we should chip in and get him a faux-greenstone Maori pendant to hang round his neck.

SHEESH!!!
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November 9, 2021 6:53pm
fernglas

I am very interested by the fact that a number of teachers are refusing to be vaccinated.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-all-staff-at-small-king-country-school-refusing-vaccine-by-deadline/ASGAJICPMXOGMTLMSLBJVLNL4Q/
It can’t be said that they are uneducated, nor that they have not been given the opportunity to be vaccinated, but it is telling that everyone at the particular school was refusing to be vaccinated. Why? Is it perhaps that at least some of the unvaxxed are people who have actually thought about it, discussed it amongst themselves and come to a freely made decision?
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November 9, 2021 8:33pm
- krazykiwi
  
  I’ve heard figures bandied around of 20% of Hawkes Bay school teachers refusing to submit to the needle. Could be baseless rumour. Dunno. But it wouldn’t surprise me, as I know only three teachers in the area, and none of them have so submitted,
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:27pm
- Fletch
  
  As I posted yesterday, teachers have taken the matter to the High Court yesterday.
  
  https://thebfd.co.nz/2021/11/08/new-zealand-we-are-on-the-edge-of-an-education-crisis/
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:29pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Good on them!
  
  I wish more people would stand up for their rights to not be forced to undertake a medical procedure. That is what democracy and freedom is all about,
  
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  November 9, 2021 9:30pm
skyblue

They are not us.
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November 9, 2021 9:07pm
info@cruzpro.com

New Zealand has made the international news.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/9/new-zealand-thousands-protest-against-compulsory-covid-jabs
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November 9, 2021 9:13pm
Truman lodge

See the herald headline tonight on breaking news “protesters outnumber media and police” WTF!! Are the media a police auxiliary force or something?
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November 9, 2021 10:10pm
Lee C

“Is it perhaps that at least some of the unvaxxed are people who have actually thought about it, discussed it amongst themselves and come to a freely made decision?”

Careful Fernglas – that’s called ‘hate-speech’ in these here parts!

And will be illegal in 2024.
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November 10, 2021 7:12am

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