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November 12, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 12 November 2021

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Warren

Naiana Muhuta has put together a group of Nine Mayors and nine Iwi/ Maori led by Public Service advisor Doug Martin to sort out the Three Waters debacle.
But the Question I would like to know is does she think Pakeha are stupid and will except that it is fair that Maori with 16.7% of the population should get 50% of the representation of the working committee, but not only that the nine Mayors on the committee chosen by Naiana Muhuta are all left leaning Mayors with political connections to our Government.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/455403/three-waters-working-group-named-terms-of-reference-released
How can anyone in New Zealand have any faith in this supposed most transparent Government our Country has ever seen when they march out a blatant red covered committe that have no intention of giving a fair result in the finding of who will control our water systems.
This is theft nothing more or less and will devide this Nation forever if it is allowed to get the decision Jacinda Ardern our Prime Minister and Local Government Minister Naiana Mahuta want .
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November 12, 2021 8:00am
- Pongo
  
  I welcome her move, it annoyed me to start with but its really a terrific own goal to appoint former Labour politicians and Iwi who are all horribly conflicted.
  She is too dumb to figure out the best way is appoint those critics from the opposing side who will accept a compromise and would like more lucrative appointments in the future.
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:54am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    I agree. It’s too easy to find someone from National like Chester Borrows or Anne Tolley who will happily implement Labour’s policies for them.
    
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    November 12, 2021 10:04am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Actually Nigel, I think Anne Tolley would implement this crazy Labour policy. Mind you, I haven’t check yet on the Tauranga CC website, but the council under her leadership is happily spending millions of ratepayer dollars remodelling Cameron Rd. and other parts of Tauranga without a mandate, and rates are presently soaring – all under her watch as commissioner appointed by this Labour government.
      
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      November 12, 2021 10:32am
      - Don Beckett
        
        I have just been to TCC website, and here is the response of our commisioner Anne Tolley on 3 Waters:
        Commissioners’ thoughts
        Initial discussions on the reform process began last year, as part of the Government’s post-COVID economic stimulus focus. Tauranga has been working with councils from the Waikato and Bay of plenty regions to identify the issues and opportunities a combined water entity might involve.
        
        In our view, the three waters reform proposal offers an opportunity to create an effective delivery model, while ensuring that the significant national investment needed to build a better water future is available, when and where it is needed.
        
        At the same time, we have identified a number of issues that we are actively raising with central Government on the community’s behalf.
        
        These include:
        
        ensuring that our communities have an opportunity to provide local input into the reform process
        protecting our water assets against privatisation
        clarifying how we manage our water assets and staff during a transition period
        ensuring that Tauranga’s growth needs will be met in a timely fashion, and given appropriate consideration within Entity B’s priorities
        the impact of the reforms on stormwater, as the focus has mainly been on drinking water and wastewater.
        Right now, we are carefully considering the potential impact of the reform, identifying areas of concern (like those above) and advocating for the best outcomes to meet the economic, social, cultural and environmental aspirations of our communities.
        
        She is selling us out.
        
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        November 12, 2021 10:39am
      - Boutique Avo Orchard
        
        And being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to do so!
        
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        November 12, 2021 7:08pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Nanaia is not dumb but a high powered schemer. She has a very high tribal rank and is able too. We under rate her at our risk.
    
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    November 12, 2021 11:06am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  My turn to call ‘Racist’
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:03am
- Nickc2
  
  It’s not just theft of ratepayer’s assets, it’s covert ownership of NZ’s freshwater by Maori. How can an ACT/National take ownership of freshwater back for all NZ’ers?
  I’m picking there will be legal challenges going on for years and these legal costs will be met by NZ Taxpayers for both sides of the argument. Maori will be on a win-win here, with everything to gain and nothing to lose.
  Just wait until the UN gets involved in this totally unnecessary fiasco and taint public opinion in Maori’s favour.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:20am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    There is no limit on the powers of government other than that they can not pass a law that may not later be repealed. If labour institute any bad law a more sensible govt can simply repeal or replace it. They are not obliged to compensate anyone, and they can write laws in a way that requires courts not to try to interpret things in a left wing way (eg with regard to ‘partnership’ bullshit)
    
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    November 12, 2021 9:38am
  - Leofric
    
    The very same water has been circulating around the planet for the last few billion years. If the maoris “own” it because it passes through “their” infrastructure, can I claim ownership of my urine and meter it where it enters “their ” system and charge them for it?
    
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    November 12, 2021 10:06am
    - RalphT
      
      Why not. They and the government are taking the piss out of you so why not make them pay.
      
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      November 12, 2021 10:59am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Once Moari own it they can also pay for flood damage – oh wait a mo
      
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      November 12, 2021 4:32pm
- nathie
  
  Since Labour/Greens/Lefties are (radically/dishonestly) re-interpreting the ToW as being a “partnership”, so then as a result are proposing putting Maori representatives on to various governing boards (3waters, councils, and so on) …. does this mean that people with Maori heritage can no longer “represent the Crown” and therefore be banned from for example standing in the general wards for local body elections (i.e. they can no longer represent their own wider multi-ethnic communities)?
  
  Does Labour/Greens/Lefties realise what the unintended consequences could potentially be (if one were to follow their “partnership re-interpretation” to its logical conclusion)?
  
  As surely in a “partnership”, people (eg Maori) can’t be on both sides (both Crown and Chiefs/Tribes) … as that then is not a “partnership”, it is in essence taking full control?
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:26am
  - Nickc2
    
    IMO, common everyday use of words like Aotearoa and Partnership (to quote a few) by our MSM, so-called Academics, Educators and leftist Politicians are tending to lend truth to their being and use.
    It’s time to wind back the calendar to a date before the whole world and NZ in particular went mad.
    Who’s brave enough to do this? It’s certainly not this Govt and I’m not convinced the alternative Govt has any aspirations to do so either.
    
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    November 12, 2021 9:56am
    - tf78
      
      Nick, if the contract is signed as/on behalf of “Aotearoa” then surely it isn’t a legal contract for “New Zealand”.
      
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      November 12, 2021 11:04am
      - Nickc2
        
        I couldn’t agree more. All references to Aotearoa and Partnership is nothing more than Woke BS! However, I believe it’s currently being taught in our schools and what is taught in schools invariably turns out to be used as common practice post eduction. IMO, it’s got to stop!
        I’m pleased to see the ‘Taking of a Knee’ at sports matches has largely gone out of fashion (except for South Africans) but they were always a bit slow. /humo
        
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        November 12, 2021 12:56pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    Wot’s mine is mine and wot’s ours is half mine.
    
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    November 12, 2021 10:48am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Define a Maori.
    
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    November 12, 2021 11:08am
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      Quite correct. If we are confronting a situation wherein the crucial distinction is ‘Maori’ and ‘everyone else’, then the starting-point is necessarily a sound definition of what those terms mean, thereby providing a criterion on which to categorise people and therefore groups of people. If the term cannot or will not be defined, then the whole scheme falls over.
      
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      November 12, 2021 11:51am
      - Nickc2
        
        If the term cannot or will not be defined, then the whole scheme falls over
        Except when free money is being dished out and not being held responsible for one’s actions.
        
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        November 12, 2021 1:02pm
  - Kiwi Dave
    
    One of the logical conclusions to the 50/50 TOW partnership interpretation is a 50/50 national legislature. Waititi has already made it clear he doesn’t believe in democracy.
    
    The more we go down this separatist path, the more enthusiastic I get for a separate tax system supporting separate public services. I guess apartheid South Africa and the Jim Crow South were on the right side of history after all.
    
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    November 12, 2021 1:30pm
  - Nickc2
    
    You’re onto it.
    
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    November 12, 2021 4:47pm
- jgw739
  
  Further, it has to be disputed that the iwi contingent represent 16.7% of the population , that claim Maori heritage. Maori will not vote these people in any more than pakeha will, the true number of people these appointees actually represent is likely to be less than 1% of the overall population.
  
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  November 12, 2021 10:13am
  - Leofric
    
    A venal maori elite stand to gain everything, whilst your average hohepa-in-the-street will be just as much a poverty-stricken, health-compromised victim of colonialism and institutional racism as ever.
    
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    November 12, 2021 10:58am
- Philview
  
  Most of the country will be in the dark and take media reporting at face value. The likes of TVNZ will paint this an independent committee coming up with an independent opinion which will most likely recommend something similar to the initial proposal.
  
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  November 12, 2021 11:57am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  It is basically a sham consultation so that they can say that the did consult.
  
  The vast majority agree etc etc etc
  
  But a sham consultation it is.
  
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  November 12, 2021 12:51pm
- Kiwi_in_Paris
  
  No surprises that Central Otago Mayor Tim Cadogan is on there. He learned his Chinese from the Confucius Institute. Made in China, as the saying goes.
  
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  November 12, 2021 6:45pm
Yvette

Facebook transparency policies define hate speech as “a direct attack against people – rather than concepts or institutions on the basis of what we call protected characteristics’’.
Those characteristics are race, ethnicity, national origin, disability, religious affiliation, caste, sexual orientation, sex, gender identity and serious disease.

“We define attacks as violent or dehumanising speech, harmful stereotypes, statements of inferiority, expressions of contempt, disgust or dismissal, cursing and calls for exclusion or segregation,’’ according to Facebook.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/brian-tamaki-video-catches-eye-of-facebook

Derek: So you’ve basically said, you probably don’t see it like this, but two different classes of people: If you’re vaccinated o r unvaccinated. You have all these rights if you are vavccinated …
Ardern: That is what it is … yep … yup!
– PM Ardern on how NZ will look under the ‘traffic light’ system | nzherald.co.nz – video [1]

“The clip is weird. She’s like rubbing her hands – she’s literally rubbing her hands. All the body language is kind of off, and she seems really proud about it, and she’s talking about doing this to her own country …” panel member,
The Buzz, Talkradio UK award Jacinda Ardern Plank of the Week [2] [3]

“Hate speech” – “It’s about inciting violence and abuse against a whole group of people” – Ardern [4]

“When you see it you know it.” [5]

Are we seeing it now, and don’t we know it?
_____________
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdMSRolWCyQ
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCO8tJ6MKiU
[3] https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/11/plank_of_the_week.html
[4] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/06/tova-o-brien-jacinda-ardern-has-misled-the-public-and-shut-down-debate-on-hate-speech-laws.html
[5] https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2101/S00098/graham-adams-will-ardern-back-away-from-new-hate-speech-laws.htm
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November 12, 2021 8:01am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  If we could read her mind she may be thinking “I’ve got you now, you bastard peasants”
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:05am
  - jgw739
    
    She looks more and more like Montgomery Burns from the Simpsons every day as the mask slips further.
    
    When something is spun her way ‘Eeeexcellent’
    And when heckled ‘Release the hounds’
    
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    November 12, 2021 10:21am
- burt
  
  Agree with your analysis, what’s the penalty for inciting hatred against others?
  
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  November 12, 2021 12:48pm
krazykiwi

From the Telegraph:

Only six healthy children with no underlying health conditions died as a direct result of catching Covid during a 12-month window, NHS analysis has revealed. Four died from Covid, while two developed a Kawasaki-like inflammatory condition called Pims-TS, caused by the virus.

The data calls into question the wisdom of closing schools and forcing children to spend months at home when the health risk to under-18s is so small.

Experts from NHS England, Public Health England and several universities and hospitals analysed official death figures in England between March last year and this February.

So healthy children have a 0.00004% chance of dying of Covid-19 (Based on 15m under-18s).
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November 12, 2021 8:02am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I don’t dispute what you are saying. But one thing that I have not commented on is ‘long covid’. I have only just started looking at it. While children rarely become acutely ill, they (and other young people) can suffer ongoing chronic effects after they recvover from COVID disease.
  
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7927578/
  
  Right now, I have a 26 year old public servant seconded to my firm to work on a project. She has recently returned to New Zealand from the Netherlands where she contracted COVID. She described it as a severe cold which she recovered from in a couple of weeks. However she has now been diagnosed with long covid. She has an irregular heart beat which she takes medicine for and she still becomes breathless with exercise. And she told me that she was in 100 percent health before infection.
  
  I’m just saying – while most children and young people will be fine and almost none will die, we need to keep an eye on the prevalence of these long term effects.
  
  I hope that is helpful.
  
  BY
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:12am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Interesting. Have a read of this paper on so-called long Covid, and this analysis of the same paper. 27,000 research participants, so not a trivial piece of work.
    
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    November 12, 2021 8:18am
    - Anthony Coates
      
      Thanks for that link. I’ve always suspected “long Covid” was more likely to be a symptom of mass hysteria than a true medical diagnoses. When you terrify the public for months and years, there are bound to be health consequences.
      
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      November 12, 2021 10:04am
      - kowtow
        
        Today , on my daily constitutional , woman , mid 40’s coming opposite , out door , wide path , gentle breeze, no one else to be seen . Saw me coming , I’m unmasked , she put one a mask to pass me and then within metres removed it again.
        
        Total loon.
        
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        November 12, 2021 10:48am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    That report by KK on long covid was second hand from a novelist.
    
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    November 12, 2021 8:21am
    - Frank the tank
      
      slow can day again Brian. Thankfully for you the kids go back to school next week.
      
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      November 12, 2021 8:31am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Not doubting your source but I recall reading a piece recently that sighted a study disproving the condition. I see Krazy Kiwi has linked it.
    
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    November 12, 2021 8:35am
    - krazykiwi
      
      I’d be surprised if zero percent of Covid-19 infections led to some form on ongoing health issues. But the evidence appears to point to that rate being very, very low and certainly nothing like the 10% that has been suggested.
      
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      November 12, 2021 9:48am
  - cmm
    
    “Long covid” is nothing new to CV19. Almost all diseases have long term effects in some patients.
    A tooth infection can lead to long term heart issues.
    
    But somehow this “long Covid” is pulled out as something especially worrisome about CV19.
    
    The same with Ground Glass Opacity. Remember when that was being trotted out as being something special to CV19? Well it’s common when there is lung congestion due to pneumonia, smoking etc.
    
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    November 12, 2021 9:50am
    - Sacha
      
      The complications of Covis19 known collectively as ‘long covid’ because they take so long to recover from, have been attributed to too late commencement of treatment of symptoms, and inadequate doses of the medications when treatment was started.
      Starting drugs when there is a confirmation of viral swab, is too late.
      
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      November 12, 2021 3:11pm
  - Cinematic
    
    It’s a complete load of bollocks. Think of ‘long covid’ as a fall back position for covid hysterics who can see the death numbers aren’t sufficient to justify the past and current abuse of our freedom and rights.
    
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    November 12, 2021 9:59am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    So when the plague isn’t killing enough people to terrify them into complying with anything along comes “long covid”. Sorry, but that is straw clutching of the highest order.
    I had a lung infection and pneumonia, it took almost a year before I regained normal breathing function. Couldn’t walk steep slopes or steps, certainly couldn’t run without getting quickly out of breath.
    It isn’t “long covid”. It’s the potential effect of any serious respiratory disease including bad flu.
    As with everything covid there are many reports both talking “long covid” up and talking it down. As with all the others, all one can do is read as much from both sides and make a rational decision around which seems more plausible.
    It all comes down to the same answer, covid has been hyped beyond belief for some reason. The true answer will hopefully be known at some point in the future. What is now abundantly clear is that the insane responses to it have been nothing to do with health.
    Make your own mind up if it is utter incompetence, political gamesmanship gone awry, some Machiavellian world plot, or yet another in a long list of pharmaceutical company acts of malfeasance. Maybe it’s a blend of 2 or more of the above. But it isn’t about health.
    
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    November 12, 2021 10:27am
    - Jim
      
      100% otherwise the MoH would be openly communicating the importance of maintaining one’s own metabolic health especially as we age (2 most influential factors in c19 mortality …age, metabolic health).
      
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      November 12, 2021 7:21pm
  - Tomtoddy
    
    Some 38 of the 84 people in hospital are vaccinated. Why bother?
    
    I do know the answer but it does make you wonder about all the regulations and restrictions.
    
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    November 12, 2021 10:51am
  - Iver Mectin
    
    Hi Bene, watched Dr John Campbell do and update on Kyle last night. It was heart wrenching especially at about 40min in when he talked about the eight people who went to congress 4 of then in wheel chairs with a spinal injury caused by the vaccination
    It was the 12 yo girl who was part of the Pfizer trail in a wheel chair excluded from the results and abandoned by the drug company that has left me with knot in my stomach.
    I do not know how I can function in a society where a medical experiment that has caused this much harm can possibly be mandated by Government.
    Melle Stewart in Australia is one of 3 celebs we know about in that country.
    I am a strong individual who has always maintained an independent lifestyle within a mainly corporate world.
    I understand politics but I am devastated about what has transpired in the last few months not only in this country but around the world
    Some Countries has have for example decided against any use of these vaccinations in people under 30 but will be mandated here in NZ. how the fuck is this logical
    The current REGIME is destroying peoples lives, this country and delivering irreparable harm to innocent people.
    
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    November 12, 2021 11:28am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  KK is it paranoia if they really are out to get you.
  
  Love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next man.
  
  But in my experience if something doesn’t look or feel right, something is wrong.
  
  This covid does not look or feel right, in fact it smells
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:13am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    “Conspiracy theory” is a label meant to avoid arguing with the person so-labelled. But, any theory at all is just the organisation of a set of propositions into a cohesive and internally logically consistent whole that purports to explain some phenomenon. There are theories behind building a house, behind the operation of an engine, behind photosynthesis, and behind the motion of the planets: all of which are demonstrably real phenomena, yet all described by “theorists.”
    
    While calling someone a conspiracy theorist with respect to the Covid phenomenon (more so the response aspect) is designed to dismiss them without argument, it really only describes them: yes, there is a theory that explains the phenomenon of the Covid response, it involves unstated aims, co-ordination and a unified purpose amongst interested entities and institutions across the world, and it applies to the observable phenomena. So what? Dismiss the theory of planetary motion too if you like, but doing so won’t stop your year being determined by the characteristics of the Earth’s passage around the Sun.
    
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    November 12, 2021 12:17pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Related, I see Taiwan has just blocked second doses of Pfizer for 12-17 year old kids.
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:13am
  - Pongo
    
    Its ludicrous to think a 30kg 12 year old girl has the same vaccine as a 150kg bloke.
    Logically the 90% target should be 90% of over 25 year olds, we have enough real world data to know that younger people are at a vanishingly small risk from Covid, unless they have other medical issues
    
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    November 12, 2021 9:00am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Can’t locate the study, but I recall reading about adverse reactions being inversely correlated with lean body weight. Fatties more at risk of Covid, but less at risk of an adverse vax reaction. And vice versa.
      
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      November 12, 2021 9:36am
    - bronny1
      
      Kids get much smaller doses
      
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      November 12, 2021 10:09am
    - Ed Snack
      
      To be fair, there are special children’s doses of the vaccines, at about 30-50% of the same amount of mRNA in each jab. Not sure if that is a special version or simply increasing the saline dilution when the actual injected amount is prepared.
      
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      November 12, 2021 10:37am
    - Surely Knott
      
      1/2 agree. Over 25’s are also at a vanishingly small risk and surely it is for each to decide their own risk. Especially when the government has chosen not to go through the full approval process. They gave provisional approval and then after that period ended they just rolled over a provisional approval. So neither pfizer nor government takes responsibility for this vaccine, but you are expected to put it into your body without hesitation.
      
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      November 12, 2021 2:06pm
- piglady
  
  It’s becoming increasingly difficult for me to respect anyone who believes that vaccinating our youth and children is ok. It’s hard to sit down and debate the issue when I think they are completely uninformed and stupid. My social life is really suffering!
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:18am
  - Lance
    
    Covid 19 or any vax?
    
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    November 12, 2021 9:25am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Covid only for me, I think the risk to benefit ratio for things such as MMR is well established to be highly negative (so way less risk than benefit). That’s over many years of administration. The risk to benefit is possibly even positive for children with the Covid vaccines, especially for young males.
      
      Of course there are other vaccines that failed and were withdrawn. Some of the Polio vaccines, at least one flu vaccine, as well as others that caused significant post vaccination issues including deaths.
      
      This Covid vaccination regime is pretty unique in that safety is simply made up, and not studied. And some strange form of population good is invoked – in other words children are being vaccinated even though it puts them more at risk because to do so *might* provide some unspecified reduction in risk for elderly high risk patients.
      
      Vaccination is a great idea….when done correctly.
      
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      November 12, 2021 10:42am
    - piglady
      
      Apologies, the Pfizer vaccination or the fizzer vaccination or the COVID constrictor.
      
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      November 12, 2021 4:23pm
  - bronny1
    
    You did better than me. My social lofe dried up when I refused the vax myself.
    
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    November 12, 2021 10:10am
  - pragmatist
    
    “It’s hard to sit down and and debate the issue when I think they are completely uninformed and stupid. My social life is really suffering “
    Ok. If your social interactions are based on if someone disagrees with you they are “stupid” your issues are far beyond COVID and the truths and falsities there. Your a tool. That’s why no one no one wants to socialise with you. Pre COVID you were a tool, and no one did then either. True story. Lonely life. Sympathies but blame Mum and dad for not teaching mutual respect and walking in others shoes. No one likes a know it all. But you know that secretly don’t you.
    
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    November 13, 2021 3:53am
- krazykiwi
  
  Also related, Michigan schools close because too many staff sick after having booster shots. From their website on 8th November: –
  
  All Saginaw Township Schools will be closed today, Monday November 8th due to a staffing shortage. Staff members will not report. Child care and after-care programs (including swim school) are cancelled. The Board of Education meeting will still take place. A large number of our staff had a negative reaction to the COVID booster shot given at a voluntary clinic over the weekend, resulting in absences today
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:25am
  - Pongo
    
    Gavin Newsom disappeared for a couple of weeks after getting his booster shot, missed Cop26 and only surfaced in time for, ironically, the wedding of the offspring of the Getty oil fortune.
    My folks have just had their boosters, thank god, and are all good so maybe if you have a youngish immune system and probably dont need a booster you might get smacked around a bit.
    
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    November 12, 2021 8:43am
    - kowtow
      
      Pelosi officiated , unmasked, in a state that mandates children wear masks in school.
      
      Inneresting how the anti wealth Dems are such Pals with the very wealthiest oil enriched Elites.
      
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      November 12, 2021 10:50am
- Scott
  
  Quite right Krazy. In the United States about 430 young people aged 0 to 17 have died of covid. When you factor it as a percentage of the over 600,000 Covid deaths the calculator works it out as 0%.
  
  To me it is part of a wider narrative to make Covid seem as scary as possible to instill fear into the population and keep them compliant.
  
  Most people still don’t know that Covid is really only harmful to those 50 and over who account for 95% of the deaths in the United States from Covid.
  
  Unfortunately we have been deluged with wave after wave of fear porn to keep us compliant and justify these draconian lockdowns. Auckland has been locked down since August 18 for an epidemic of thousands of cases from which to date less than five have actually died.
  
  Yes there may be “long Covid” but is it enough to justify flattening the economy and putting aside every other consideration? Does anyone in government have a sense of proportion? To me it seems not.
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:32am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    If UK is anything to go by 80% of those kids who died has serious comorbidities. So maybe 80 otherwise healthy kids dead out of 60 million kids. a little more than 1 in a million. UK was 1 in 2 million from 5-12 yr olds.
    
    There’s a lot of suggestion that most long covid is psychological in nature.
    
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    November 12, 2021 9:01am
    - bronny1
      
      All but “a handful” were obese, diabetic or had suppressed immune system such as due to cancer
      
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      November 12, 2021 10:12am
  - mawm
    
    There has to be an ulterior motive for using Covid to install such fear. Was Covid just the right vehicle to come along at the right time or was it created for it? These are questions that are sure to engage one’s mind.
    “Dr Evil”, William Gates, has long signalled his desire for electronic monitoring of the world population along with his population control through vaccination. The link below is a long essay on the state of vaccine monitoring and electronic passports. Wherever you look the esteemed “Dr” Gates and the WEF are there.
    https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/digital-vaccine-passports-surveillance-capitalism-covid-gates/
    
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    November 12, 2021 10:20am
    - tf78
      
      mawn, he’s also very keen on de-populating the world.
      
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      November 12, 2021 11:21am
- Thought Criminal
  
  But they might spread it to us. And we are AFRAID!
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:20am
- alan
  
  I agree kids should go to school and are unlikely to die from Covid. My wife and I who are 70 and 71 pick up our grandkids from school/daycare half of the week and look after them when they are sick. We also obviously have contact with both working parents. We think that we will likely get Covid at some point due to our continual interaction with the four of them. We have both been double vaccinated and have underlying health issues.
  
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  November 12, 2021 12:37pm
Raphael

Why are we counting a man shot in his driveway (a tragedy) in our C19 death stats?
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November 12, 2021 8:02am
- Raphael
  
  Article link: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-shooting-three-people-charged-over-new-lynn-murder-self-isolating-fourth-on-the-run/EXKEM7V7AEN3DB7WX2OKE2QMB4/?objectid=12485044&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=nzh_fb&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1636601423
  
  “An additional death in Auckland has today been added to the national Covid-19 figures,” the Ministry of Health said.
  
  “This person’s death is subject to a police investigation and the Ministry will not be commenting further on it, at this stage.”
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:04am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    The other thing that I caught today was the data on the pre existing health conditions of the 33 people who have died in New Zealand from COVID. About 95 percent of folk who died has pre existing conditions – mainly heart and lung disease.
    
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    November 12, 2021 8:15am
    - emmess
      
      Yeah, this is going to be a massive red pill for the people here in NZ that still think the government and the media is honestly giving them truthful information
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI2joNg5HTw
      
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      November 12, 2021 8:37am
    - kowtow
      
      Amazing . The world over “experts” who pushed poll panicked politicians into destroying our economies and freedoms were ignorant of the fact that old sick people actually die.
      
      “Experts” doing the same with climate scam.
      
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      November 12, 2021 8:39am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Meanwhile…
        
        I commented two weeks ago that my partner’s father had been diagnosed with cancer of the esophagus. He is in a bad way. Yet he has still not seen an oncologist and his CT scan to figure if the cancer has spread is still 7 days off – so three weeks since his diagnosis.
        
        Life and death is not all about COVID. Our society has become mad. I was talking to a colleague yesterday. He has booked an expensive Christmas holiday in Northland somewhere. Two young kids. They have paid thousands for it – non refundable. So he tells me that they are considering cancelling and losing their money because they do not want to expose their children to the risk of catching COVID.
        
        People have literally become brain washed by the leader of this country. And I say this as someone who pays attention to science and risk. I agree that COVID is something to be concerned about and I am pleased I am vaccinated, knowing the limits of the vaccine.
        
        But this person is going to lose thousands of dollars and deprive his family of a holiday because of irrational fear. And there is only one person I blame for this. She has done more damage to the nation than any leader in the nation’s history.
        
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        November 12, 2021 9:04am
      - sooty
        
        Why would you cancel your holiday this far out?
        Why give the holiday people the chance to rebook someone else in your place and make a killing?
        Just don’t turn up. It’s nonrefundable!
        Better to decide on trip a couple of days before!
        
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        November 12, 2021 9:31am
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        Is it really non-refundable? I have been giving cancellations due to lockdowns full refunds supported by the booking agencies. I would think most providers would value the good will and decency enough to be helpful in cases beyond the guest’s control.
        
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        November 12, 2021 9:59am
      - doggone7
        
        If you’d been Ardern’s script writer from January last year, what would you have had her say (or not say) over the time so that no-one 22 months later would say we’d been “brain washed by the leader of this country.”
        
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        November 12, 2021 10:57am
    - bronny1
      
      The article I saw listed more conditions than 33 so possible that everyone had an underlying condition? Or did the data you saw five more detail?
      
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      November 12, 2021 8:58am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Bronny, of the 26 from last year, 4 weren’t tested, 1 actually returned a negative test but still got listed as covid. Now someone who got shot is listed as covid.
        
        My go to statement used to be “you can’t make this shit up” – but apparently you can!
        
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        November 12, 2021 11:22am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Here’s the CDC’s data on co-morbidities by age cohort.
      
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      November 12, 2021 9:08am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        wow, so only about 10% of generally quoted risk for middle age and above if you are in good health. Covid = nothingburger for vast majority of population.
        
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        November 12, 2021 9:41am
      - bronny1
        
        Thanks Krazy
        
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        November 12, 2021 10:18am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        IFR pre-vaccine was equal to about 2.5months of your normal risk of death. But if it is only 10% of that for healthy people then that is about one week of your normal risk of death. And with vaccination perhaps as little as 1 day of your normal risk of death. In practical terms zilch.
        
        FFS end all covid measures now. Anything more than zero disruption to our normal lives, and instead focusing all govt effort on managing higher than usual hospital cases (and boosting our ability to handle that) is just not worth it.
        
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        November 12, 2021 12:35pm
    - Taieri
      
      The other thing that I caught today was the data on the pre existing health conditions of the 33 people who have died in New Zealand from COVID.
      ——————
      
      Where can this info be found?
      
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      November 12, 2021 9:56am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        I have a copy of the OIA that was sent to the MoH, tried to find it online but can’t find it so far. But here is a cut and paste of part of the original reply to the OIA.
        
        Tēnā koe Paul
        Response to your request for official information
        Thank you for your request under the Official Information Act 1982 (the Act) on 17 August 2021
        for:
        “The number of citizens that have died from Covid with no underlying comorbidities since
        24/3/2020 to 16/8/2021.
        Also, the number of known and or reported deaths of citizens post vaccination since the
        implementation of vaccination rollout.”
        In response to the first part of your request, 10 people have died in New Zealand from COVID19 with no underlying comorbidities. The Ministry of Health statistics do not differentiate
        between cases based on an individual’s citizenship status. Overall COVID-19 case statistics are
        available at: http://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novelcoronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-current-cases.
        
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        November 12, 2021 11:16am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Benedict were you aware also that of the 26 “covid” deaths from last year, (apart from being very aged and having serious comorbidities) – 4 actually tested negative and 1 wasn’t tested at all? There was an OIA done which I can track down if you wanted to see it.
      
      In another OIA they state that of the 33 claimed covid deaths in NZ only 10 had no comorbidities.
      
      This is not about health.
      
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      November 12, 2021 11:01am
- Don Beckett
  
  To keep up the fear porn.
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:04am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  In the UK and US people who have covid have died in car accidents, yes they died from covid.
  
  Welcome to another day of lockdown tyranny.
  
  Bring on the funny men we need a good laugh.
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:08am
- westernScientest
  
  because he wasn’t vaccinated
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:14am
- pdm
  
  Yep Raphael – should be put down as lead poisoning.
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:17am
- MCos
  
  The number of covid-19 deaths relates to people who were infected with the virus at the time of their death.
  Similarly when you hear that an average of 500/annum die from the flu that’s not necessarily correct for the same reason.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-ministry-of-health-releases-pre-existing-conditions-of-deaths-linked-to-virus/2PVOFYDPE5TSVJD3J5J2DCVEXM/
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:32am
  - sooty
    
    Not everyone with covid dies.
    In this case, something else got him!
    
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    November 12, 2021 9:36am
    - MCos
      
      Quite right
      
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      November 12, 2021 10:19am
  - cmm
    
    “Similarly when you hear that an average of 500/annum die from the flu that’s not necessarily correct for the same reason.”
    
    Actually, it probably is correct because people are never classified as having flu on the basis of an asymptomatic PCR test.
    
    According to Baker, there are about 10,000 people a year dying in NZ with or due to flu side effects. Yup, almost a third of all deaths.
    
    Yet, somehow we don’t shut down a country for flu.
    
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    November 12, 2021 9:57am
- kowtow
  
  There’s an ironic “intersectionality” in that story around this latest outbreak.
  
  Add to that the very people Ardern “embraces” are the ones busting her myth by spreading this thing , all the while her regime pushes its legislative programme to make life easier for the worst of our society ( that isn’t a team of 5 mil) ie emptying gaols and repeal 3 Strikes.
  
  And she still has strong support from the Brendas.
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:37am
- Stellaboxer
  
  Why are we counting a man shot in his driveway? Simple we need numbers to justify the authoritarian response.
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:37am
- Bobba Fret
  
  I was laughing so much when I heard this on the 3 News last night. I would have thought Jacinda would want to keep the Covid death number as low as possible to be ‘best in the world’. I really cant understand this one. Did the bullet not cause his death?
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:54am
  - DeepBlue
    
    You are onto it. WHO require any death with Covid to be reported. We in NZ are now saying: hold on we’ll do that, but also investigate further, thus have two numbers. The reason, as you say, is to keep Covid deaths lower, now vax is up. Gotta be best at world.
    
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    November 12, 2021 2:31pm
Bridgenag

Serious question…..

Would it be possible for KB to set up a “Task force” harnessing all the anger from the folks on this site to help save New Zealand from this government and rampant socialism.

Its task would be to try to get an opposition with courage and most of all charisma which is woefully lacking at the moment.

The New National Party was dismissed as being a “splitting of votes” idea but at least they have had the courage to put their heads above the parapet. Perhaps something to look at more closely and utilise.

What else can be done? The gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands, although cathartic , is just that………………………..we need action. There must be some movers and shakers on this site that can make things happen………….try and work with or add to what is meant to be an opposition to make them electable.

Urgently!
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November 12, 2021 8:02am
- Bridgenag
  
  With only 5 posts, still waiting for the moderator 13mins
  
  10 6
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  November 12, 2021 8:15am
  - Bridgenag
    
    Now 8.43 and still not out of moderation
    
    [Mod: Your point is?]
    
    8 7
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    November 12, 2021 8:44am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Life hack hints: –
      1. Don’t get grumpy with mods
      2. Don’t run with scissors
      3. Exercise and eat lots of free foods
      4. etc
      
      29 1
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      November 12, 2021 9:11am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Almost
        
        1) Get grumpy with mod times
        2) Keep it to yourself
        
        10 0
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        November 12, 2021 9:51am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Mate, get on the wrong side of the mods and you will live to look back at only 13 minutes with fondness . . .
    
    [Mod: Those are wise words Paulus]
    
    20 1
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    November 12, 2021 9:11am
    - fisho
      
      Mod rubs hands together, grins maniacally and says “yes, that’s exactly what it is”
      
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      November 12, 2021 10:22am
- westernScientest
  
  In my option NNP was dismissed because despite the name, it was more of the same of the old NP.
  
  Other than that though I do think its a good idea, here seems to be one of the only places left where people can actually have a disagreement and actually discuss the merits of the arguments.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:05am
  - mawm
    
    It’s also one of the few places where one can find people who are equally as frustrated and dismissive of the Podium of Truth irrespective of vaccine status. It is also heartening to see that even vaccinated commenters are willing to fight the division created by Jacinda and the inevitable apartheid vaccine pass.
    
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    November 12, 2021 10:35am
- Ian Boag
  
  Would it be possible for KB to set up a “Task force” harnessing all the anger from the folks on this site to help save New Zealand from this government and rampant socialism.
  
  You want DPF to set up a new political party. Or someone else … just not you … I see you aren’t volunteering to be part of this.
  
  Piss and wind.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:12pm
artemisia

Israel preparing for a new and more lethal pandemic wave.

Israel on Thursday began a nationwide drill to test its readiness in the event of an outbreak of a new, more lethal Covid-19 variant. The exercise, war-gamed over three sessions to simulate the passage of time after a potential flare-up, will test the resilience of systems that determine lockdown policies, monitor variants, offer economic support for citizens, enforce quarantines and watch border crossings.

New Zealand for sure has a plan too, maybe even quiet scenario training. Right?

Perhaps that plan is in the same bottom drawer as the plan for dealing with declining efficacy / boosters / vax passports expiring.

Let’s see the plans. Please.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israel-holds-e2-80-98war-games-e2-80-99-to-prepare-for-more-lethal-covid-strain/ar-AAQzQDK
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November 12, 2021 8:04am
- Lance
  
  Not a bad idea, considering MERS had a 37% death rate compared to around 1% (or less?) for Covid 19.
  Bloody hell, something like that running rampant would be be very ugly.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:31am
  - Ed Snack
    
    And add to the worry, if ADE rears it’s ugly little head, a version of SARS-Covid2 could kill 50%+ of all vaccinated people, because they will be unable to develop any immunity to it, because of the vaccine effects.
    
    That happened in a mRNA trial of a flu vaccine in poultry. Unlikely maybe, but possible, and very frightening if it does.
    
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    November 12, 2021 10:58am
- mawm
  
  The plans have always been there but were ditched for Covid and new ones instigated. It was the same with all the other developed countries that have been involved in this madness. It’s almost as if somebody is telling them what to do to make this pandemic worse than it is.
  
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  November 12, 2021 11:13am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Apparently this is the plan. Ambulance, bottom, cliff comes to mind.
  No mention of looking after your health, getting Vit D, C and Zinc. Certainly don’t even think about something like Ivermectin!! Let’s go straight to plan dead!!
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/455177/dhbs-funeral-homes-buy-refrigerated-containers-for-covid-19-bodies
  
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  November 12, 2021 11:26am
Fletch

In case you missed it, the guy shot and killed in New Lynn last week is being classified as a covid death because he had covid when he died. I just saw the 1 News segment. Those are the WHO rules.

Madness.
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November 12, 2021 8:05am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  See above. He died from lead poisoning
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:12am
- pragmatist
  
  Idiot. He got shot. He had COVID. Where the fuck has it ever said he died of COVID???
  Your making shit up. That’s the best you got? Back to the bedroom at mums and go back to your incel mates.You’ll find your tribe there fool.
  
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  November 13, 2021 3:57am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Liberals caught out in gun buy back LOL.

https://steadfastclash.com/the-latest/florida-man-sells-homemade-1776-boom-sticks-at-gun-buyback-city-runs-out-of-cash-in-30-minutes/
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November 12, 2021 8:06am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Wonder if that would have worked in NZ? Two bits of galv pipe (25 nb abd 20 nb) 1 end cap, 3mm broken drill bit. 12 G fits in the pipe – bang.
  For the Mods, this video is freely available on Youtube.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:16am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  genius
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:43am
Jade Warrior

Farewell to F W De Klerk. Although Mandela usually gets the plaudits for bringing freedom to South Africa, I’ve always been of the belief that it was De Klerk himself who deserves that honour. He had the courage to realise that the apartheid regime was going nowhere and had to be abandoned.

Of course, the idea that an Afrikaner was responsible for tearing down a system of oppression that other Afrikaners had built is anathema to many lefties which is why the heroic efforts of De Klerk are little remembered or appreciated today.
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November 12, 2021 8:09am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I attended an international service clubs convention in Durban in 1994, barely six months after South Africa’s first democratic election. FW de Klerk spoke at the opening ceremony, and received a prolonged standing ovation at the end of his speech.
  
  Having previously viewed South Africa from afar, and through a Kiwi lens where rugby was a major consideration, it was a wonderful experience to hear FW speak, and it remains a day I will never forget. May he rest in peace.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:49am
  - Paulus
    
    Have you seen the current state of South Africa – even Mandela would be ashamed at where nothing has really benefited the black man except the top corrupt few.
    It is a very sad situation and worsening by the day.
    
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    November 12, 2021 11:10am
Pongo

Werent we told that no Astra jab because we were only set up for Pfizer, apparently that was a convenient lie and we are good to go with no extra work having been done.
The question is while we were delayed and delayed by Pfizer and there was loads of Astra globally we could have got into arms.
The current 3 month Auckland lockdown could have been largely unnecessary or less punitive.
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November 12, 2021 8:10am
- westernScientest
  
  I dont think we were delayed by Pfizer, its seems much more likely we were delayed by our own governments ability to place orders.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:26am
- tf78
  
  We had Astra land in NZ, but Cindy very kindly sent it up to the islands.
  
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  November 12, 2021 11:54am
Simon

“The woman says from the outset the sick family relied on advice from a fragmented Covid-19 health response that allegedly never gave her father a directive to go to hospital, instead offering throat lozenges and paracetamol as treatment.”

Yet another example of medical failure from the gubermint health. This bull shit is just getting started. Winter 2022 will be an utter train wreck.

Disgusting response from the DHB given all the proven early treatments protocols and successful monoclonal antibodies. However they are just following Cindy’s mad all in on vaxx lead.

“Treatment with Regen-Cov was well-tolerated and significantly reduced Covid-19-related hospitalisation or all-cause death, rapidly resolved symptoms, and reduced viral load.”

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/451512/government-urged-to-buy-game-changer-covid-19-drug-treatment

However Cindy Pfizer employee of the month:
“Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said, while they are looking at treatments, they are no replacement for the vaccine which everyone should still get.”

Early treatment protocols and monoclonal anitbodies. When people are first tested positive for the covid. Especially for the vulnerable. It is proven to reduce hospitalizations and save lives.

Yet the DHB’s are still at the lozenges and paracetamol stage.

Unless someone in the gubermint wakes the fuck up and gets away from this bull shit in all on the vaxx there will be thousands of painful and unnecessary deaths during winter 2022.
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November 12, 2021 8:13am
- Gertie
  
  Yes. I have been watching and waiting for this. Leave them to die, with none of the easily available medications. I dont want to believe it, but what else can you think other than they want it to happen to feed the fear porn. Its disgusting. I would like to know what Bloomfield is thinking. He seems a kind man way out of his depth. Is that a facade?
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:28am
  - Ed Snack
    
    It is either rank incompetence, corruption, or sheer stupidity. Given that a reasonable treatment pack can be supplied for probably not much over $20 a head, the steadfast refusal to believe that there was/is any such useful protocol has made this “pandemic” way, way, worse than it needed to be.
    
    Why do they do this, surely we have to have some sort of enquiry to sort this out. Paracetonmol, snort, way, way, more dangerous on the stats than the “Dangerous !” Ivermectin that Bloomfield warned us about. And a damn sight less effective.
    
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    November 12, 2021 11:02am
    - Clownworld
      
      Bloomfield is a former UN trained and indoctrinated globalist health expert.
      He supports blindly the WHO.
      He either has massive blindspots to the political shennaginans going on ( he would have to be seriously less intelligent than he appears) or he is part of the corruption and knows full well it is a well rehearsed charade.
      
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      November 12, 2021 8:48pm
  - miltonF
    
    [baseless attack on public figures. Deleted by Mod]
    
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    November 12, 2021 11:52am
- Random T Person
  
  …there will be thousands of painful and unnecessary deaths during winter 2022.
  
  Quite frankly I am at the point of ‘so fucking what’. Don’t care anymore. Life is rapidly becoming not worth living anyway.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:30am
  - tf78
    
    RTP – never let these buggers get the better of you. Our day in the sun will come, probably sooner than later. Stay strong.
    
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    November 12, 2021 11:59am
- mawm
  
  It’s not that they need to wake up but that they are actively blocking people from getting these early treatments. I’d be willing to pay for them myself should the need arise. They are deliberately making this pandemic worse than it should be.
  
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  November 12, 2021 11:20am
  - Clownworld
    
    Perhaps the lab “leak” was done inadvertently ahead of time before they could do a real gain of function. Disappointing it wasn’t as big a deal as hoped.
    
    Still reset happening. NowBill Gates retalking in address to COP26 saying we need at least a billion more dollars to prevent a small pox bio weapon….
    
    You can’t make this stuff up…..
    
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    November 12, 2021 8:52pm
rouppe

I wonder how long it will be before Jacinda puts up a sign at the international entrance to Auckland Airport that reads: “Vaccination sets you free”
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November 12, 2021 8:13am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Should not be long, she likes lies
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:18am
- Thought Criminal
  
  Godwin much?
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:23am
  - Random T Person
    
    Maybe it’s appropriate this time.
    
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    November 12, 2021 9:31am
    - Ed Snack
      
      When real fascist authoritarianism threatens, maybe “Godwin’s Law” can take a bit of a back seat. Even if that’s health fascism.
      
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      November 12, 2021 11:03am
dime

A quote form the herald

“the first of the deadly Delta strain ”

Feels like Covid 1.0 was deadlier. people were dropping like flies early last year…

Anyway, what is the latest on transmission rates for the vaxed vs the unvaxed?

its such an emotive issue and so many are so angry, its hard to find proper data.

a few days ago there was a story posted in the GD about a lancet study. no difference between the vaxed and unvaxed… do you think Dime could find the actual study though?

Dime has no skin in the game at all. dont care if you people get vaxed or eyeball heroin on a saturday night. id just like to know what the latest research is. peer reviewed. not random doctors or bloggers.
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November 12, 2021 8:18am
- krazykiwi
  
  what is the latest on transmission rates for the vaxed vs the unvaxed?
  
  Funny you should ask. Vax Surveillance Report for Week 45 was published a few hours ago. See Table 6 on Page 22. For the first time even the vaxxed 18-29 cohort have higher case rates.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:15am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Good stuff. Wonder if they can explain the numbers is my age group(69) The number of cases in those double vaxxed is more than twice that of unvaccinated
    
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    November 12, 2021 9:23am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      btw, I just cancelled my 2nd vax next Fri. Two trips to Hosp recently (bronchial pneumonia) Inhalers, aspirin, nitro. Too much to take a chance on anaphylaxis, they can wait
      
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      November 12, 2021 9:27am
  - dime
    
    thanks.
    
    pulled this from a study it linked to:
    
    “Overall, the likelihood of household transmission
    was approximately 40 to 50% lower in households of index patients who had been vaccinated
    21 days or more before testing positive than in
    households of unvaccinated index patients”
    
    so the benefit of passing it on to secondary contacts is even less.
    
    im not convinced we should we slapping a yellow star in the unvaxxed just yet
    
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    November 12, 2021 10:04am
  - Happy1
    
    The majority of road fatalities were wearing their seat belt.
    
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    November 12, 2021 10:25am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Errata. The vaxxed 18-29 cohort does not have higher case rates. Excel + fat fingers. Apologies.
    
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    November 12, 2021 11:09am
- Ed Snack
  
  They have to keep up the narrative. From what we can tell, the “delays” variant is considerably less lethal but spreads better.
  
  Deadly is therefore inappropriate really, but they have their orders on what can be said. The fear porn must continue.
  
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  November 12, 2021 11:13am
westernScientest

Surprise surprise, more corruption that will not be dealt with at all:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300452605/saliva-testing-processes-slammed-by-auditorgeneral

100000+ doctors visits or procedures delayed since August due to government covid response. Including 43,700 first specialist assessments and 10,629 scans:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300451705/more-than-100000-procedures-and-specialist-appointments-cancelled-due-to-delta

People starting to take kinds out of school, possibly because of the vax mandate, but more likely due to seeing the garbage the state is teaching their kids recently:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/126954481/covid19-rise-in-home-schooling-registrations-linked-to-covid19-and-social-engineering

Downplaying the number of medical staff who will loose there jobs over the mandate. Im not sure why anyone would quit really, wouldn’t you wait to be fired?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126937576/covid19-handful-of-health-professionals-threaten-to-quit-over-vaccine-mandate
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November 12, 2021 8:20am
- crackle
  
  Oh you wait to be fired, then you lodge a claim with mediation services in the first instance on the basis of procedural errors and a flawed consultantion process.
  
  My partner had her dcm yesterday and we will file a greivance, on top of the procedural stuff like failing to answer reasonable questions and having an assortment of staff attempt to make calls rather than communicate in written format as requested. The recent AstraZeneca announcement has given me another stick to hit them with, the availability of a second vaccine materially changes an important variable and the question has to be asked ‘would you be willing to be vaccinated with Astra Zenaca’ thus the consultation period should have been extended to allow for this to be discussed in a fullsome manner.
  
  Im going to enjoy myself tbh Ive only been on the employer side of the table but I know how the system works and how to exploit it.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:22am
  - Joely Doe
    
    Yep, I would wait until fired and then have a go at them. Like you, only been on the employer side – always easier and cheaper to engage a kickass Employment Lawyer to run my side of things.
    Got one on retainer – lovely lady but I would not want to get on her bad side!
    
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    November 12, 2021 10:23am
    - crackle
      
      Yeah, costs are horrendous from an employers point of view. Like you I realized the easiest and cheapest thing to do was pony up and hire the best in town. Usually a flea lawyer working on a no win no fee basis runs a mile when they see the letterhead.
      
      We’ll self represent and let them spend the money. First stop mediation where they can choose to spend comparatively little to make it go away or spend a fortune when I drag it into the court system for shits and giggles at that point will probably pay for an hour or twos serious advice. Just to maximise my entertainment really.
      
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      November 12, 2021 10:58am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It was Candace Owens who first instigated the wait to be fired idea – then lawyer up
    
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    November 12, 2021 12:03pm
  - artemisia
    
    General questions, Who will the grievance etc be lodged against? And will it make a difference if it is the actual employer, or the ministry sending out the instructions?
    
    What happens if there are suddenly hundreds of applications lodged? Or thousands? Do applicants get paid for staying home until the case is heard (in 2025)?
    
    Suggest the mandate might be walked back to allow staff to continue with regular negative testing. And then what happens if it can be proved / balance of probabilities, that the virus was caught while working on site.
    
    Where is the government’s plan (Ok joking).
    
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    November 12, 2021 12:04pm
  - Happy1
    
    My prediction is that where you lose your job because you refuse The mandated jab you will get no joy in the courts. Already the exemption loophole has been closed and others will be as they arise. If necessary by changing the law. Either get jabbed or find work elsewhere. It’s that simple.
    
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    November 12, 2021 12:22pm
    - crackle
      
      There will be joy to be had in terms of attacking the process at an employer level. Many will have fluffed it. Lots of cases where process failures mean payouts to ratbags who deserved the boot.
      
      Start with mediation first and go from there.
      
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      November 12, 2021 1:39pm
- Flossie
  
  I bet there’s heaps more than 100,000 doctors’ visits delayed. A couple of times in the past year or two I’ve thought I really should get that xxxx checked out but such a rigmarole to do, so I’ve left it. Maybe one of these days I’ll find out that that suspicious lump is actually something that ought to have been sorted ages ago.
  
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  November 12, 2021 10:30am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Westernscientist – have a read of this re kids and why people might take them out of school. (We’re taking our daughter, 11, out of school due to the mask mandate.)
  
  The title of the blog post is:
  
  Shame the children until they comply, are these the lessons we want our schools to teach?
  
  A small excerpt:
  
  – from systematic racism to world wrecking carbon consumption, school seems ever more about shaming children these days. it’s like some sort of out of control secular calvinism imposed by an ever more rarified and deranged priesthood
  
  and somehow, parents have stood for this. but this next one is going to be a wholly different kind of conflagration.
  
  move over intersectional guilt trips, mask manipulations, and malicious malthusian moralizing, there’s a new sheriff in town to heap guilt upon your children and his name is “vaxx shaming.”
  
  https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/shame-the-children-until-they-comply?
  
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  November 12, 2021 11:56am
kowtow

Patient ( getting covid jab) to nurse ; Will this give immunity ?

Nurse ; Only to the manufacturer.
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November 12, 2021 8:22am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Isn’t it extortion when fear is used to sell “vaccines” without any comeback against the supplier? Like the mafia the price is what they say it is.
  
  How can anyone trust such a product?
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:11am
Rusty

New Zealand is a constitutional monarchy. Queen Elizabeth 11 is the head of state in this country.

Under the constitutional act the NZ govt (crown) and its Prime Minister are bound by this act to always keep a democratic system.

If any NZ govt was to change the democratic system the Queens representative (Governor General) in NZ can remove that govt and PM from office.

True or not and or who cares?

Queen Elizabeth is 95 and could pass away anytime and who knows what Charles will be as the new king but nevertheless constitutional monarchy is not a symbolical system in NZ in my view.
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November 12, 2021 8:23am
- KevO'Brien
  
  But they have appointed a luverly friendly Maori GG.
  She’ll probably tuck Cinders up into her fireplace at night.
  
  Once a Governor General would have intervened. HM’s Executive Council are far from her values and their Oath of Allegiance.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:18am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  NZ is the Socialist Republic of Aotearoa – ask any socialist, there are plenty Comrades
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:30am
- Paulus
  
  In New Zealand the GG is appointed effectively by our beloved PM – so get lost as she is a political appointment anyway.
  
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  November 12, 2021 11:12am
kowtow

Our Media Pardy really take the biscuit .

They gave ridiculous amounts of cover to the Fentanyl Floyd , show trial of Derek Chauvin .

There’s another politically inspired show trial there right now .

That of Kyle Rittenhouse . Where’s the OTT , hyped up coverage .

Does not suit their far left agenda.
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November 12, 2021 8:25am
- Pongo
  
  Been watching a bit of the trial, he will walk free and riots will ensue and caused entirely by the media coverage leading up to the trial. The entire coverage has been Rittenhouse is a vigilante killer and he clearly wasnt as proved by the prosecutor of all people.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:05am
  - miltonF
    
    If riots do occur I think there is scope for media organisations to be charged with incitement of violence.
    
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    November 12, 2021 12:00pm
- Raphael
  
  I watched about 5 hours of the trial last night….. The DA is a moron.
  And I am astounded at how bad the reporting it.
  For example, the chap Rittenhouse shot in the arm, who changed his story multiple times on the stand, at first said he was standing with his hands up when was shot, then eventually admitted that he was pointing his gun at Rittenhouse from less than 3ft away and it was only then that Kyle, who was lying on the ground shot him.
  The media reported only the first bit and left out the details
  
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  November 12, 2021 11:53am
- Nickc2
  
  I saw our MSM’s version of the trial last night on TV and it certainly took the BLM side of things. It was pretty much like CNN with an NZ accent. Total Bullshit!
  
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  November 12, 2021 11:59am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    yep, legacy media are wall-to-wall lets go brandon.
    
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    November 12, 2021 9:55pm
Maggie Pie

Will the Hospo industry, particularly restaurants, be left with any option other than to allow ONLY ‘fully-vaxxed’ patrons onto their premises?

Asking for one of the girls in our regular lunch group.
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November 12, 2021 8:25am
- Frank the tank
  
  Yes. Discussions were held at the surf club (my local) last night that this is the only way you can run a bar/restaurant.
  
  The more insidious question however is can venues that rely on+100 guests survive as traffic light red limits gatherings to that amount of people.
  
  And let’s face it – we’ll never be out of red in Auckland particularly given the amount of drug deals and gang activities going down.
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:35am
- burt
  
  I’m vaxed, but unless it’s necessary for my day to day life I will strongly avoid any business that implements vaccine mandates or passports.
  
  If the vaccine stopped people catching or spreading the virus then we could have a debate about the value and validity of vaccine mandates and passports. Since it neither stops contraction or transmission, it’s coercion and control and totally unacceptable.
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:36am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    ” but unless it’s necessary for my day to day life I will strongly avoid any business that implements vaccine mandates or passports.”
    
    That is your choice of course, but how many hospitality venues are you expecting to NOT require vaccine certificates? They can only open to the unvaccinated with rules that would make most venues non viable. i.e I don’t think you will be going to a hospitality venue for the next few years.
    
    What am I missing?
    
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    November 12, 2021 8:40am
    - burt
      
      Benedict
      
      but how many hospitality venues are you expecting to NOT require vaccine certificates?
      
      I don’t care, I’ve ben locked out of hospitality venues on and off for almost two years now. I’ve even been locked out of takeaways for months on end – I’ll survive without going to bars and restaurants another year or two.
      
      I may change my mind eventually, and that too is my right.
      
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      November 12, 2021 8:42am
      - Taieri
        
        Support your stance “burt”. I’ll also not patronize such premises unless it is absolutely unavoidable.
        
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        November 12, 2021 10:02am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Same
        
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        November 12, 2021 11:37am
    - westernScientest
      
      Its more whether they check them or not. I will support businesses which are relaxed on checking them, ie they are effectively not enforcing it.
      
      The order is still in place that they must enforce signing in and masks, when was the last time you were accosted about not signing in?
      Sure to start with it will be enforced, but then they will get busy and the staff member thats checking them will be needed to clean up a spill or something, then help clear tables or whatever, then all of a sudden its just normal not to be checking. Unless there are huge fines and a heap of police checks, it will fade really quickly. The reason it works for alc/tobacco is because it has general support within society, this really doesnt, its probably at least a quarter of the population that this it is wrong.
      
      Add to that the fact that the App will probably only work half the time. If you a business and their shitty app isnt working, what are you meant to close your doors? If that is the case, the choice will be to not check, or close down. How many are going to put up with that uncertainty for long? Then there is an excuse as well, “why were you not checking?”, “oh the app is down again”.
      
      Its just going to be a real shambles. I think what you are missing is that you are expecting this is going to be something that is a functional system and people will obey and enforce the rules, and you could be right, but my bet is that it will be a complete shambles and wont work at a logistical level, and in the public domain will more or less be dropped.
      
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      November 12, 2021 8:54am
      - Joely Doe
        
        when was the last time you were accosted about not signing in?
        
        Never been approached about not signing in.
        Do not have the NZ Tracking App on my phone and have never signed in to any location.
        D Duck, Robert B Uilder, Charles U Farley regularly sign in if a show is required…
        
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        November 12, 2021 10:29am
      - bronny1
        
        Heard an interview about how the app will work. It will have yr name, DOB and vax status and a QR code to scan. The business will then have to check yr details against photo ID. That means a staff member on the door. I guess the govt is paying their wages?
        
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        November 12, 2021 10:38am
      - Raphael
        
        @brony, and for those who don’t have a photo ID?
        
        Most 12 year olds aren’t in high school yet and so won’t have a school ID.
        
        There are people out there who don’t have a drivers licence or a passport….
        
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        November 12, 2021 12:02pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “I will support businesses which are relaxed on checking them, ie they are effectively not enforcing it.”
        
        You are making some assumptions that could be false. We will need to check the regulations. If the Government fines on compliant businesses $10,000 and has random inspections, of course they will be enforced. On the other hand if the ‘enforcement’ is not checked and there are no consequences, your scenario will be correct.
        
        My guess is that the vaccine certificates will be quite tightly enforced and if you are not vaccinated you will not be able to visit 99 percent of venues in New Zealand.
        
        But nobody knows. Wait till we see the regs.
        
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        November 12, 2021 12:28pm
      - Hard Cheese
        
        It will eventually fall apart – eventually you’ll get people who can’t/won’t keep up on the booster hamster wheel. What are businesses going to do, stop every second person coming into their establishment because they haven’t got a current booster and their vaccine cert has expired? Money will talk and they’ll just wave people through.
        
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        November 12, 2021 12:29pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “Money will talk and they’ll just wave people through.”
        
        I really doubt that. But we shall see in a year or so I guess.
        
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        November 12, 2021 2:10pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        BTW this:
        
        “It will eventually fall apart – eventually you’ll get people who can’t/won’t keep up on the booster hamster wheel.”
        
        Based on Israel’s experience, most people will get the booster shot when offered.
        
        https://www.dw.com/en/israels-bet-on-early-covid-booster-shots-pays-off/a-59787257
        
        And TBH I really think New Zealanders have been scared into submission. The next few years will be regular booster shots with a high level of uptake and rigid enforcement of vaccine certificates. It would require a change of government to change that and even then I am not sure.
        
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        November 12, 2021 2:14pm
      - Hard Cheese
        
        “The next few years will be regular booster shots with a high level of uptake and rigid enforcement of vaccine certificates.”
        
        I think you’re dreaming. There’s no enforcement of QR scanning or signing in now, what makes you think vaccine cert scanning will be any different? There are supposedly fines for breaking alert level restrictions, do you know of anyone who has actually been caught and had to pay one? Compliance in Auckland is falling apart and taking the path of least resistance is simply human nature. Hospitality simply won’t bother scanning people – the only way anyone would get caught is have the Polizei entering cafes at random and asking “Ausweis, bitte”
        
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        November 12, 2021 3:23pm
    - bythesea
      
      that you will be unvaxxed 6 months after your last shot, and so will the rest of NZ
      
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      November 12, 2021 11:16am
      - burt
        
        And this is another elephant in the room the politicians are ignoring.
        
        The MSM are also ignoring it when they should be pressing the government on it. I guess when you’re paid $55 million by the government to only report nice things about them you don’t challenge them on things will will impact New Zealander.
        
        Like every other country that has signed up to vaccine passports, as soon as they are implemented the boosters will be mandated and we’ll all need to top up our ‘fizzer’ subscription.
        
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        November 12, 2021 11:59am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Totally agree I cancelled my Wife and my application to join a new gym this week when they informed me they were a “ double vaxed gym”. I’m not supporting this segregation it’s medically nonsensical. Pure Labour theatre
    
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    November 12, 2021 8:42am
    - burt
      
      People need to remember that prison is a place where you start with no freedom and if you behave appropriately you get some freedom back – society is a place where you start with freedom and if you act inappropriately it gets taken from you.
      
      With vaccines and vaccine passports – our freedoms have been taken away and we are required to act appropriately to get them back.
      
      I’ll comply to do what I need to do, I may need to travel urgently and so be required to jump on an Air NZ Apartheid flight and my dentist might go all fascist and demand all patients need vaccination and an infected tooth will make me go there.
      
      This is why I’m vaxed, so I can exercise my choices when I need to – not so I can earn back the normal freedoms unreasonably taken from me in this prison society we should never be accepting.
      
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      November 12, 2021 9:00am
      - raven
        
        This resonates with me. Society feels more like a prison than a society now.
        
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        November 12, 2021 11:05am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      You cancelled your wife Stella? Did she take that well?
      
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      November 12, 2021 9:18am
    - Ehlana
      
      Try Nerd Fitness Stellaboxer. It’s an app, so it couldn’t care less about your vaccination status.
      
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      November 12, 2021 4:44pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Since it neither stops contraction or transmission it is not a vaccine but an experimental medication.
    
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    November 12, 2021 12:23pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Yes – they can open to the unvaccinated with capacity limits and distances between tables. Can’t recall the details but most places would be non viable with those limits.
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:37am
  - westernScientest
    
    Even more of a reason to support those businesses who chose to take that stand.
    
    I agree with you though, they will be few, but I will actively seek them out to support them, even though I could go to one of the others if they were enforcing the passport.
    
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    November 12, 2021 8:59am
    - mawm
      
      We could even ask our host to maintain a list of establishments identified by us that will allow the deplorables to eat, drink and be merry.
      If enough hospo venues were to be non compliant then the government would have to back down.
      
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      November 12, 2021 11:37am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “Even more of a reason to support those businesses who chose to take that stand.”
        
        TBH I doubt that there will be any such venues, except perhaps in remote places where there are many unvaccinated people.
        
        How many venues will be profitable if they need tp permanently have severe capacity constraints and distancing? Hardly any.
        
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        November 12, 2021 12:31pm
  - bronny1
    
    Maybe they will have “unvaxxed Tuesday” or something ???
    
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    November 12, 2021 10:40am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Yes Benedict, and that was part of Ardern’s not so cunning plan, to get the people to do the enforcing for her. Unfortunately for her and fortunately for the rest of us, most people see through it and recognise her as the devious, nasty, uncaring person she really is.
    People will long remember this awful behaviour, those who complied against their will may be the angriest.
    
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    November 12, 2021 11:38am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Ouch
      
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      November 12, 2021 12:25pm
- MCos
  
  My son has a friend over in France, a country noted for its stroppy inhabitants.
  Initially vaccination rates were very sluggish as a kind of anti authority thing, but I see now they are about the same as NZ.
  Similarly when vaccine mandates were introduced for restaurants it was messy, but now, according to my son’s friend it’s routine to produce your vaccine cert. at the door.
  So he says & if it works there it’ll work here, sure.
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:56am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I agree. Unvaccinated people in France cannot go to any eating establishment, bar, or venue. None.
    
    And the reason? Any establishment that lets an unvaccinated person enter is liable for a fine of 45,000 Euros.
    
    So the folk here who are saying that it won’t be enforced here and there will still be plenty of places where the unvaccinated can go for a drink and a meal, I think they are dreaming.
    
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    November 12, 2021 12:35pm
dime

How salty is Hooten hahahaha

“That National itself still polls dismally is ultimately uninteresting. It will continue to underperform while Judith Collins remains leader and the party keeps offering no more than policy left-overs from the Bolger and Key eras mixed with nods to pre-1984 agrarianism, anti-vaxxer sentiment and general conspiracism.”

you had your shot dude. you backed bolgers boy.. all the way back into obscurity.
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November 12, 2021 8:31am
- nathie
  
  Hooten, who stabbed Bridges as former leader by writing critical articles about him all the time including when he joined the Muller coup, is now (in his article) shit-stirring by advocating for Bridges to replace Collins as leader.
  
  FFS people like Hooten (and Slater) continue to damage National by telling us who and who shouldn’t should be leader and/or “must” be replaced and/or “so and so” is waiting in the wings.
  
  FFS#2, the article is about his thoughts on Ardern’s leadership failings … but all he does is spend half the article undermining National!
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:36am
  - dime
    
    yeah the guy is just sad.
    
    youre bang on with your assesment of WO as well
    
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    November 12, 2021 10:05am
  - Paulus
    
    Remember any good deal requires time and patience – so shut up and wait.
    
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    November 12, 2021 11:15am
  - lifesgood
    
    Hooten comes across as a nut job. He is largely to blame for this chaotic mess we are now living under. Bridges would have been a fantastic PM and yet Hooten did everything he could to undermine him and then ensured a fragile man with mental health problems took Bridges place. What Hooten did to this country is unforgivable. Seriously, does anyone really believe He has the country or the National party’s interests at heart? I am pretty certain that he has no ethics and will work for whoever pays him the most. Clearly at the moment it is the Labour party.
    
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    November 12, 2021 11:49am
  - Nickc2
    
    Hooten is just another poison pen for sale depending on whichever direction the wind is blowing, who has the most kudos to lose and who’s paying him the most money at the time.
    A Mercenary Scribbler!
    
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    November 12, 2021 11:52am
  - BananaLlama
    
    Many such cases.
    I will vote for ACT but i notice this from National party members, they undermine their own party and use the MSM as their personal gossip column to get what they want. They forget the only reason Mrs Collins is there is because they botched things up so badly to begin with.
    I think they need to go and start their own party and stop destroying National.
    
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    November 12, 2021 5:54pm
BAM

Saw this comment yesterday on Reddit.

I was having a socially distant outdoor beer with my medical colleagues and one of the GPs told a story. He got a call and was told that one of his patients ( who he hasn’t seen in over 3 years) tested positive and was home isolating, then they said it was his responsibility to look after him.

He received no guidance on how frequently to check on him, how to check on him, when to refer for help. The worst bit is that there is not a system in place to get paid for this, so this GP who is already working close to 1.5 FTE to care for his patients is now volunteering to look after a bunch of COVID patients he doesn’t know with the experience he doesn’t have.

What an utter fuckup, so many people are going to die unnecessarily and it’s on Ardern and the rest of this clown government.

I hope she understands that.
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November 12, 2021 8:31am
- burt
  
  Maybe write her a note using crayons on a large piece of paper. Be sure to draw some pretty flowers and if you can a bee flying around them.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:18am
- kowtow
  
  I don’t think the Pollies really care .
  
  There have been so many shall we say ‘little’ issues ( which aren’t little ) around all govt’s responses to this scam demic and yet there’s still huge widespread support for mandates , restrictions etc
  
  I believe that the Media Pardy narrative of armageddon scale deaths has been bought by such a significant number of voters , literally scared witless , or without the wit to do their own thinking , that that is why we’re in such schtum and govts will continue down their own “rabbit holes”.
  
  As long as their internal /external polling shows continued support , then these Morons will continue with these counter productive , insane policies.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:52am
I remember when

Stuff: New poll shows Labour dipping below 40 per cent, National up slightly. The public think the country might be heading in the wrong direction: Luke Malpass.
Except that the poll shows that, admittedly from a low total, National has gained 8% on Labour.
Or, he could have said Labour voter numbers were down 13.3% and National’s total was up 18.2%.
So an 18.2% increase is up slightly, I wonder what a large swing will look like.
Maybe even, that similar numbers in the next poll could result in National polling ahead of Labour.
Report Card – could do better but fails to show real inclination to do so.
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November 12, 2021 8:32am
- Paulus
  
  You said it all – Malpass !
  
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  November 12, 2021 11:17am
Ra Henare

It seems to me that Shane Reti, Deputy Leader of National party has all the creds to address/critique NZs response to the Covid situation and systems/attitudes of this Governments response.

However he is not given any “”airtime”” or media exposure.

Why is that?
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November 12, 2021 8:34am
- Ruahine
  
  The Opposition Parties do not have $110 million of taxpayer money to give to the Media Party to run their ‘news’ stories.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:11am
- fernglas
  
  Because to criticise the Covid response is a political death sentence. Why do you think National are trying to out-Nazi Ardern?
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:16am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  The minute you typed National, you answered your own question.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:19am
- pdm
  
  Ra – Reti would tell New Zealanders things the media and the government did not want the general public to hear.
  
  Things like the truth for example.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:22am
westernScientest

Lol:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/126964446/nz-should-be-a-fast-follower-reducing-car-emissions-says-ford-boss

Government – We want the cleanest vehicle fleet in the world, and we are going to force car makers to provide provide our virtue signal.
Car makers – have fun without cars then NZ is to small for us to bother appeasing your bullshit virtue signal, you have no ‘clout’
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November 12, 2021 8:35am
John Pakes

What some people have seen to be a descent of NZ into two classes of citizens seems to have deepened.
Judith Collins has stated that travel should be open to New Zealanders but with conditions.
Those who have been jabbed can travel freely, but those who have not can only travel after overcoming restrictions.
It would appear that those who make the rules for us, our politicians, are in agreement that some division of our society will be an inevitable and necessary consequence of the choices that our citizens continue to make.
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November 12, 2021 8:35am
- westernScientest
  
  Ignoring all the other issues, how on earth would this ever be enforced?
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:40am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Yellow stars are being sourced as I type.
    
    Worked for a while last time . . .
    
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    November 12, 2021 9:21am
- Frank the tank
  
  I’d argue it’s temporary. It will start with large corporates when they realize their turnover is only 85%-90% of pre-covid levels and seep through economies worldwide.
  
  The other thing that will occur is a weakening of the virus/widespread heard immunity and better post infection treatment.
  
  In the interim we will have 24 months of shit.
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:47am
- Stellaboxer
  
  You have no human rights if you support them being stripped as soon as they become inconvenient to the authorities. It’s like having an umbrella that’s confiscated as soon as it starts raining. This is the point I believe most people are missing . If we allow this you are effectively surrendering your rights.
  
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  November 12, 2021 8:47am
- Ed Snack
  
  [para deleted. Final warning, do not make Holocaust or Nazi comparisons. By instruction from DPF – Mod]
  
  Given how relatively useless the vaccine is at preventing cases, the only real impact is on the reduction in severity which is primarily a purely personal benefit. Add to that the existence of treatments that have the same degree of effectiveness that *could* be authorised at trivial cost. So there is zero actual justification for this piece of health fascism. And health fascism is exactly what it is.
  
  The only justification is to satisfy that proportion of the population who actually likes persecuting people and pretending to have virtue and like to display that as a form of status.
  
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  November 12, 2021 12:02pm
Frank the tank

How does a man shot in the chest die OF covid?
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November 12, 2021 8:36am
- MCos
  
  Nobody said he did.
  What has been said was he had covid when he died.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:02am
  - sooty
    
    Not everyone with covid dies.
    In this case, something else got him!
    looks like the vax shot doesn’t give you immunity to lead poisoning!
    
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    November 12, 2021 9:49am
    - oldfella
      
      Did he get his jab from the ‘Shot Bro’ bus? Two for the price of one?
      
      6 1
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      November 12, 2021 10:26am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Oh YES they did…..
    
    https://twitter.com/pat_ianni/status/1458694105601433600
    
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    November 12, 2021 9:55am
    - MCos
      
      That not what the MoH stated, according to the explanation given by the reporter.
      It’s an anomaly in system created by WHO.
      Some might say not the only one.
      Similarly someone with terminal lung cancer, for example, may become a COVID or flu statistic if they are stricken thus when they expire of cancer.
      
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      November 12, 2021 11:18am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        It is NOT an anomaly, like everything else covid, it is deliberate lies, misinformation, statistical manipulation and exaggeration designed to create exactly what we have. Destruction of normal life, terrorising and disorientation of the population, and it is all being done to take more power and restrict more freedoms.
        The word covid wasn’t remotely relevant to the situation. Unless you’re some sort of weird “covid spotter” like those who used to collect train numbers for some sick reason.
        
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        November 12, 2021 12:04pm
      - MCos
        
        Don’t beat around the bush, Mc.
        As far as you’re concerned COVID-19 is a hoax and doesn’t exist, right?
        
        2 2
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        November 12, 2021 1:55pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Why the fuck was covid even mentioned then? There is zero justification of the word even being in the story. Get a grip.
    
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    November 12, 2021 11:43am
    - MCos
      
      Ask WHO
      
      1 1
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      November 12, 2021 4:14pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    I thought he had been counted in the Covid deaths classification ?
    
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    November 12, 2021 12:02pm
- burt
  
  Obviously he wasn’t vaccinated so he died of covid, if he was vaccinated he’d have died with covid.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:03am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Great reply! ?
    
    12 0
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    November 12, 2021 9:22am
- Maggie Pie
  
  The way things are going in this country, there may be a business opportunity selling disposable Bullet-Proof Vests.
  
  Just saying.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:31am
  - burt
    
    They don’t need to actually protect you from bullets either, but you’ll be required to wear them to show that you comply with the idea of preventing gun shot wounds.
    
    17 1
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    November 12, 2021 10:10am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Exactly, maybe make them out of “reinforced” paper. Good enough, and paint them bright colours so one can virtue signalling while wearing them !
      
      I like that idea.
      
      6 1
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      November 12, 2021 12:05pm
I remember when

It is interesting that Ipsos found that there were only three nations where the public thinks the government is moving in the right direct.
Australia, India and Saudi Arabia.
Obviously countries that are leading the world in ‘climate change’ mitigation.
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November 12, 2021 8:39am
crackle

If you had to choose due to a mandate, would you go Pfizer or AstraZeneca purely on a potential side effect basis?
8 2
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November 12, 2021 8:44am
- krazykiwi
  
  Refer Vaccine Safety Update.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:21am
  - crackle
    
    So I read that as its even worse the Pfizer… what a cluster fuck for very limited protection.
    
    15 1
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    November 12, 2021 9:38am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Yep, AZ had a number of issues reported early on.
      
      6 1
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      November 12, 2021 12:22pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        The Clot Shot™
        
        Perhaps we got a cheap deal from other country’s rejected consignments.
        
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        November 12, 2021 9:45pm
ecco

Hooten’s written a scathing article on Labour and Ardern on the Ferald. It’s hilarious, at the same time would have Ardern in tears, I suspect, if she read it. Alludes to the ‘inept student government’ now running our country. (Not really sure which side of the fence Hooten sits on some of the time but it is definitely criticism of the government in this article). Hooten also offers some excellent suggestions for the govt, like abandoning MIQ by 16 Dec so returnees can join their families for xmas.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-poll-slide-a-warning-to-pm-jacinda-ardern-and-it-could-get-even-worse/CES3TNYREJ6X2LHVYOT5VBLCSU/

You can access these behind the paywall articles if you have a NZ library card and get on to PressReader via your library card. (Nb just speaking from experience, if you are looking for the NZ herald on the weekend it’s listed on PressReader under ‘Weekend Herald’. Not the ‘NZ Herald’ which only has the week day versions.)
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November 12, 2021 8:47am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  And, if you are really sad Billy Nomates, there is the h on Sunday. Might as well read it, can’t go to church . . .
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:25am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Sorry ecco, despite being an avid newspaper reader (I have subscribed to ODT, Press, Evening Post, Dominion, Herald at various times, sometimes together!), I canned my subscription to the Herald over 10 years ago. They still call me though. Even offering it to me for free for various terms a couple of times. As I have said more than once to them, I wouldn’t wipe my arse with it. So to the idea of using PressReader, I’d rather stab my hand repeatedly with a nail.
  
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  November 12, 2021 10:25am
  - ecco
    
    There are some very good articles in the Ferald, the ones behind the paywall by Joyce, Cotterill, du Plessis Allan, Hosking, Soper and McIvor. Well worth reading. I agree with you though that generally it is a blunt instrument of a rag that is beholden to Ardern and Labour due to the bribe fund. Sadly.
    
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    November 12, 2021 9:15pm
Pongo

I am not a proponent of compulsory vaccinations and there should be choice but there is no escaping the real world evidence of what is now occuring in places like Germany and Austria et al that the unvaxxed are filling up the hospitals and are stopping the optimal functioning of the health system.
There should be a partial charge for those getting hospitalized with Covid and that money should go directly to funding private sector services to those displaced by hospitalized anti vaxxers.
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November 12, 2021 8:49am
- westernScientest
  
  There should be a partial charge for fatties, smokers, druggies, cyclists…..
  
  The only way this is a good argument is if you just say, get rid of public health care and let the markets work out what kind of a risk each individual is. Sure there might be a small premium on not being vaxed, but there will be a massive one if your morbidly obese.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:16am
- RightNow
  
  If we’re going to discriminate then there should be a charge for anyone who could have changed their lifestyle to bolster their immune system, regardless of their vaccination status.
  If you can’t stick to a healthy diet and exercise regime, quit smoking and fast foods, get fresh air and sunshine (all basic ways to bolster your immune system) then why should those of us who have keep subsidising you?
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:21am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Others are complaining that the “vaccinated” are clogging up the hospitals with a whole lot of unexpected illnesses.
  Wait & see.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:24am
- burt
  
  There should be a partial charge for those getting hospitalized with Covid and that money should go directly to funding private sector services to those displaced by hospitalized anti vaxxers.
  
  There should be a partial charge for ~~those~~ obese people getting hospitalized with ~~Covid~~ diabetes or needing joint replacements and that money should go directly to funding private sector services to those displaced by hospitalized ~~anti vaxxers~~ obese people.
  
  Hey Pongo, how’s your idea of enforcing self responsibility into the health sector sounding now?
  
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  November 12, 2021 10:13am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I wouldn’t like to be a hospital cost accountant.
    
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    November 12, 2021 11:00am
- raven
  
  To add to others sentiments on this, if we’re discriminating and separating people for hospital charges:
  Anyone injured with any alcohol and/or drugs in their system should pay part charges; anyone injured playing sport professionally or recreationally should pay part charges and if it’s a child then their parents pay.
  
  Is this the country you’d like to live in, Pongo?
  
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  November 12, 2021 11:16am
  - Ehlana
    
    raven I think sports injuries are covered under ACC, so you do pay for them through the levy which is part of the tax take from your wages.
    
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    November 12, 2021 4:48pm
    - burt
      
      Ehlana
      
      ACC does cover sports injury costs, but there is no direct connection between the person incurring the medical expense and the person paying the levy. For example an unemployed person on a stolen mountain bike could bust almost every bone in their body and be patched up and panel beaten courtesy of the levies paid by others.
      
      The discussion here is having people feel the consequence of their decisions, so direct charges would be required and dismantling our no fault ACC system would be required to effect that.
      
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      November 12, 2021 7:58pm
Tony Stuart

With so many Covid positive cases now isolating in their homes, and with Andrew Little having admitted the system isn’t coping, more cases like this are inevitable:

A grieving daughter whose father died a painful death at home 12 days after contracting Covid-19 says he tried to get help for his worsening health but claims he was told he had normal symptoms and would get better.

The West Auckland woman says her 68-year-old father, who fled a conflict-scarred country 20 years ago for a better future, spent the last five days of his life in agony coughing up blood and was too weak to move, waiting for officials to say he should go to hospital.

Yesterday the country’s latest victim of the pandemic was farewelled in a restricted alert level 3 burial in accordance with the family’s Islamic faith — his wife, who also contracted Covid and needed hospital-level care only learning he had died hours beforehand.

The daughter, who does not want to be named, is critical that her father was never given the level of support needed for someone so ill, with her siblings left traumatised seeing blood gush from their father in his final moments before he died in their Glen Eden home on Wednesday.

The family is now coming to terms with the shock loss of a dearly loved parent and want changes made to where people with Covid quarantine, so no one else suffers the real-life nightmare they experienced.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-glen-eden-father-of-seven-dies-at-home-daughter-says-he-tried-to-get-help/BEKTBLTD3QY4FJEWHKCEJTPORQ/

Eyebrows were raised a few weeks ago when it was revealed that around 80 Covid-positive patients were being allowed to isolate at their homes. That number has totally blown out since then and it was reported on Wednesday that 1671 people who have tested positive for Covid are isolating at home. Unsurprisingly, this is causing massive pressure on the Health system.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/11/10/gps-dealing-with-more-home-isolation-patients-as-public-health-overwhelmed/

As Covid numbers continue to grow, and as the virus spreads as it inevitably will (six new cases in Stratford last night), it’s going to need more than a mea culpa from Andrew Little for the system to be able to cope. Maybe it’s time the Government and the Ministry of Health had a consultation with Dr Shane Reti, that is when Dr Reti isn’t out in the impoverished backblocks of Northland, vaccinating people.
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November 12, 2021 8:50am
- Ed Snack
  
  Just maybe, these idiots who run our medical system could provide suitable treatment for those testing positive and not (yet) in need of hospital care ? Provide same to anyone in the same household.
  
  The ingredients are known and cheap, but for some strange reasons, they won’t.
  
  One has to ask, do they want more people to get sick and die, because that is the effect of what they are doing.
  
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  November 12, 2021 12:51pm
Aunty

So, now we’ve got very sick Covid patients dying at home who should be at the hospital getting treatment. And by the way, we don’t even have a surge on. Patient numbers in hospitals are still under 100! And all we get is an endless stream of soothing weasel words from the MOH and the Government.

Sometimes this country and its woke socialist masters disgust me.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-glen-eden-father-of-seven-dies-at-home-daughter-says-he-tried-to-get-help/BEKTBLTD3QY4FJEWHKCEJTPORQ/
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November 12, 2021 8:53am
Brian McDonald

Mathew Hooten has fallen into the “private claims” told to him which he “reports.” I know that type of reporting is pretty wide spread but it is weak journalism claimed from inside sources and so on which even if true probably indicates an agenda either by the sources or the reporter.
In the same article he attacks the PM over recent polls, he claims he was told of personal conversations the PM had with people in
Auckland that are unflattering of her business acumen – expecting the reader to believe (I know plenty will) that the PM goes to business meetings and displays some fiscal/business shortcomings. Really? So naive, and lets it slip into a new environment with complete unawareness.
He then attacks Judith, which indicates his support for someone else in National as Judith is not the person to unseat the PM in her perceived by Hooten vulnerability at this time.
The guy has written some great stuff but the things mentioned above all in 1 article are hardly subtle and give the impression he’s a pen for hire striking at both the PM and Judith at once – leaving a gap to be filled by who? An ally from his National days? The Key push for his boy wonder? Or “won’t go away” Simon?
Yesterday revealed that polls more than likely played some role in recent Covid decisions. No surprise there. More interesting was a stroll in Sylvia Park around midday and the absence of large amounts of shoppers escaping from “lockdown.” If Hooten didn’t capture the mood maybe a walk in the shopping centres might have helped. It was far from the celebrations of the Berlin Wall falling.
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November 12, 2021 9:00am
- nathie
  
  Well thought out and well said (your assessment doesn’t deserve the downticks given so far so here is an uptick).
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:42am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I find it more than amusing that Hooten, having pushed so hard last year to have Simon Bridges replaced as National Party leader by his friend Todd Muller, is now advocating for Simon Bridges with Erica Stanford to lead National in 2021.
  
  Is that an admission that he was wrong last year to assist in the overthrowing of Bridges, the fallout from which was a major contributor to National’s election defeat? Regardless, I find it hard to take his suggestions to National MP’s seriously.
  
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  November 12, 2021 10:13am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Hooten is the Herald’s political equivalent of Daniela Elser – a reliable source of self-serving pointless nastiness.
  
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  November 12, 2021 10:19am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

8 year old Fiona Lashells suspended 36 times for not wearing a mask. She is standing her ground. Will not be bullied.
https://uniteamericafirst.com/2nd-grader-suspended-36-times-for-not-wearing-masks-tells-school-board-that-she-hopes-they-go-to-jail-video/?
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November 12, 2021 9:01am
Maggie Pie

Sitting at home by ourselves last night feeling a tad BORED.

My partner happened to see an ad for ‘THE WAREHOUSE’. Open till midnight. So thought we may as well head over there for a bit of a larf.

Not that we wanted anything. But if you’ve ever watched those vids…… ‘People of Walmart’, you’ll know what I mean. Never fails to entertain!

Now what we didn’t see there, was a ‘QR Code’ or hard-copy Register.
Not that it matters. We take SteveO’s advice these days and sign in as Mickey & Minnie 😎 😛
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November 12, 2021 9:03am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Ah, the people of WalMart.
  
  Just when you doubt your sanity, go and look at your neighbours there . . .
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:29am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Women of The Warehouse be like…
    
    “I told you I can fit my daughters jeans”
    
    LOL!!
    
    10 2
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    November 12, 2021 9:47am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Donald Duck – and ducks don’t have phones. Did it yesterday at countdown
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:38am
- Weetbix3ways
  
  Last time I went to the Warehouse they had a security person at the door to ensure everyone was masked, signed in, etc.
  Said guard was deeply engrossed with whatever she was looking at on her phone, wasn’t noticing much!
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:55am
I remember when

Gisborne Herald: Log export crisis: Forestry industry future uncertain as global prices plummet:
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November 12, 2021 9:24am
Yvette

Coronavirus: Austria says unvaccinated should ‘suffer’ like it’s still 2020, prepares to put them in lockdown
“A lockdown for the unvaccinated means one cannot leave one’s home unless one is going to work, shopping (for essentials), stretching one’s legs – namely exactly what we all had to suffer through in 2020,” Schallenberg said, referring to three national lockdowns last year.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/11/coronavirus-austria-says-unvaccinated-should-suffer-like-it-s-still-2020-prepares-to-put-them-in-lockdown.html

Coming soon to a circus near you?
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November 12, 2021 9:24am
- krazykiwi
  
  Well, After formal demand, the CDC concedes it does not have proof of a single instance of a naturally immune individual spreading the virus.
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:56am
  - Yvette
    
    Krazykiwi – Considering the vast amount of research you have done, can you please answer a question, if you have found anything covering it –
    
    The vaccine delivers to the body, an ‘article copy’ of the virus spikes, so that the immune system learns the code to destroy that, and can immediately ‘attack’ the real thing when it invades.
    So, does the immune system over time actually eliminate the vaccine itself as it learns to destroy that code?
    And does that have anything to do with the loss of vaccine efficacy over several months?
    
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    November 12, 2021 10:06am
    - rangitoto
      
      If you are talking about the Pfizer vaccine then it contains Messenger RNA which has the genetic instructions to create the virus spike protein. The vaccine also includes material facilitating the cellular uptake of the MRNA. Once inside the cell, it highjacks the cell’s protein manufacturing system (ribosomes) to make the virus spike protein. The spike protein gets released and triggers an immune system response. The MRNA would have a limited life – I have read about two weeks – nothing to do with the immune system. It just naturally degrades/gets used up.
      
      It is possible for MRNA to be converted in to the DNA equivalent via an enzyme called reverse transcriptase. DNA is a lot more stable and persistant than RNA. I am advised that this enzyme is not present.
      
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      November 12, 2021 10:43am
      - rangitoto
        
        PS. This Wiki article has information on how MRNA gets degraded – the details are subject of ongoing study. It claims that in eukaryotes (like us), the MRNA persists for “days”.
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messenger_RNA
        
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        November 12, 2021 11:03am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Humans actually have reverse transcriptase in all cells, though typically inactive. It is used to insert additional teleomeres into cells to prolong their ability to replicate.
        
        I think some RNA viruses use it to engineer their replication, but I pretty sure that Covid doesn’t. Though there are some papers on the detection of Covid RNA being incorporated into human cell DNA leading to long term detection of viral proteins well after normal infection. This may be related to long Covid, but maybe not.
        
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        November 12, 2021 1:10pm
    - Taieri
      
      So, does the immune system over time actually eliminate the vaccine itself as it learns to destroy that code?
      —————–
      
      An interesting question. Does anyone with some knowledge care to enlighten us?
      
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      November 12, 2021 10:52am
      - rangitoto
        
        No. MRNA has a limited lifetime.
        
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        November 12, 2021 11:47am
      - dcrane
        
        My guess is that the immune system destroys the cells containing the mRNA over time since they presumably express the alien spike protein.
        
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        November 12, 2021 2:39pm
    - Reid
      
      Read this. It explains how it works on a cellular/molecular level. You’ll prolly have to read it several times before it sinks in, it’s quite complicated.
      
      Once you’ve understood what’s in this link, you’ll recognise this perfectly explains all of what we are seeing in terms of the reduction in effectiveness and the side effects we are seeing.
      
      https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/088/585/102/original/a21c6ea8c2950b83.jpeg
      
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      November 12, 2021 11:58am
    - krazykiwi
      
      I can’t answer that. It is an area I’m keen to understand better… what really happens to the body after it is coerced into generating those billions of cytotoxic spike proteins? Do they all get attacked by the innate immune system, or do some survive that response? I believe Ed Snack is probably our man on this topic.
      
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      November 12, 2021 11:59am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Thanks for the rep.
        
        First, the S protein made by the mRNA vaccines is not identical to that in the virus, but is intended to be sufficiently similar to stimulate an immune response that will also be triggered by the “real” S protein. The vaccine protein is supposed to have only a limited ability to bind to the ACE2 receptor on cells.
        
        Second, yes, the immune system deal with a lot of such proteins from various infectious agents all the time, and will basically remove the great majority of such proteins in a few weeks. Some may survive that in places like the lymph nodes and in some organs, that’s a bit contentious it seems right now.
        
        The other issue not well addressed is the real possibility that the S protein, both in the viral and mRNA form has other binding sites and attacks the endolithial and vascular systems through other receptor sites. I did have referenced a pre-print paper that claimed that the CD35 receptor was targeted, but that may have been withdrawn or removed as it isn’t available now. Again somewhat controversial. Some are claiming that it is the S protein behind the cardio and clotting problems, the official narrative for now is that it isn’t but they don’t know what is causing the issue – which seems particularly weasel like to me, just IMHO.
        
        Bottom line, the description of the S protein as “cytotoxic” is not officially accepted, but there does seem to be considerable potential evidence that it could be. For a start, the fact that the vaccines and a Covid infection can generate some very similar heart and blood clotting issues when the only common feature between those two IS the S protein is, at least to me, a fair indicator that the S protein is involved in some way.
        
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        November 12, 2021 1:41pm
      - dcrane
        
        And how about this…the Astra-Zeneca vaccine uses a weakened chimpanzee adenovirus to move DNA for the spike protein into the cell. The DNA then goes to the nucleus to be transcribed (into mRNA, which comes back out to be translated). How do we know that the DNA cannot be incorporated into a chromosome? Is there no concern since presumably the immune system will kill the cell?
        
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        November 12, 2021 2:42pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Blofeld needs to read, understand, and be questioned on this
    
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    November 12, 2021 11:42am
- westernScientest
  
  its basically what the red light is on the traffic light system is
  
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  November 12, 2021 9:56am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Happy Veterinarian’s Day – Joe Biden
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November 12, 2021 9:49am
NoFax

I am genuinely confused by the contact tracing app and what is being used for. The government is dropping “causal” and “casual ” from its tracing abilities/goals.
Yet, the tracing is going to be more important according to some https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/covid-19/covid-19-delta-outbreak-why-govt-is-rethinking-contact-tracing/

So if it’s not used for “causal” or “causal ” then why are we scanning in at supermarkets or retails as these are causal/ not contacts.

I know I am applying logic which is a mistake for this government but am I missing something?
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November 12, 2021 10:11am
- burt
  
  Yes you are missing something, it’s never been about tracing and always about social control and fear.
  
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  November 12, 2021 10:29am
  - Taieri
    
    it’s never been about tracing and always about social control and fear.
    ————-
    
    Funny you said that. The public toilet in Middlemarch requires scanning in. Ditto the public toilet in Millers Flat in Central Otago. Both facilities are well known for intensive patronage by the members of the public.
    
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    November 12, 2021 10:55am
    - sooty
      
      Do you realise that they scan your wees and poos as they leave as well!
      
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      November 12, 2021 12:07pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Must be the Rail Trail tourists they are worried about. Those cyclists can’t be trusted !
      
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      November 12, 2021 1:43pm
- Reid
  
  They’re softening people up for a Chinese-style social credit system and the Covid contact tracing app is the first step along that road, to get everyone used to the idea that it’s perfectly normal for the govt to know your every movement.
  
  At the moment people who don’t understand the end game think it’s very rational to do this in light of this deadly covid plague and so those people are hard to convince if you put the above to them. Such people will only realise they’ve been snookered after covid is history yet contact tracing remains the order of the day. By then it will be too late for them to do anything about it.
  
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  November 12, 2021 11:51am
kowtow

New York City has elected an ex cop , Eric Adams ,as the new mayor .

He’s black and Democrat.

He wants to bring back a police unit that was disbanded at during last summers riots and tighten bail rules.

In response a BLM leader, hawk Newsome , who was at a meeting with said mayor has said ;

“If they think they are going back to the old ways of policing, then we’re going to take to the streets again.
There will be riots . There will be be fire ,and there will be bloodshed”

The mayor has a democratic mandate , what has the BLM guy got other than threats of violence .

And sports men and wimmin and law enforcement officers and elected politicians and media outlets around the world ‘take a knee’ and openly express support for this?
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November 12, 2021 10:36am
Master Mariner

Quite a damming report regarding Seafarers.

https://www.humanrightsatsea.org/2021/11/04/uk-house-of-lords-unclos-inquiry-how-to-protect-human-rights-at-sea/

What’s the bet MIQ scrapped before Xmas ? However the damage has been done.

Hearing for Grounded Kiwis earmarked for 25th Jan.

Which will have wide reaching implications and will further open up more legal cases.
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November 12, 2021 10:47am
Fletch

Turns out that Amanda Pritchard, the head of the NHS in the UK has been caught telling a massive porky. She claimed that the NHS had 14 times as many patients in hospital with Covid-19 than at this point last year. It was reported by several news networks but it turns out it isn’t true; in fact, this year has less than 2020.

The head of the NHS has been accused of an “outrageous misuse” of statistics after saying that there were 14 times as many people in hospital with the coronavirus as at this time last year.

Amanda Pritchard said that the NHS was “running hot” with “very real pressures on health and social care”. She added: “We have had 14 times the number of people with Covid in hospital than we saw this time last year.”

However, the number of people in hospital with the coronavirus is lower than last year. Yesterday there were 7,075 patients in English hospitals with Covid-19. On November 8, 2020, the figure was 11,680.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/amanda-pritchard-nhs-chief-lambasted-after-covid-admissions-claim-0w78wbj7t

That makes the current figure 1.6 times lower, not 14 times higher as Ms Pritchard claimed.

The NHS has never had fourteen times the number of people in hospital with Covid than it did in November 2020 (which would be roughly 154,000 people).

https://fullfact.org/health/amanda-pritchard-nhs-hospitalisations/
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November 12, 2021 10:52am
Flossie

Finally the PM has realised that there is no incentive for people in Level 2 to get vaccinated – and then be allowed into Red Light! Why would anybody think it’s a good idea to go to Red Light, when they currently can go pretty much into any business, including to a hairdresser! under Level 2?
Beggars belief!
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November 12, 2021 11:18am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Call it what you want, this is blackmail to force vaccinations. Time for NZ to stand up to her commie nonsense.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/ardern-considers-moving-all-of-nz-into-traffic-light-framework-with-auckland-to-help-drive-up-jab-rates/ar-AAQBgMT?
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November 12, 2021 11:27am
- Fletch
  
  Today is the deadline the protesters have given her to ditch this nonsense. Otherwise they are threatening national gridlock.
  
  Today, we’ve given this Labour government until 2 pm to return the following freedoms to New Zealanders. 2 o’clock is long enough for them to make any big announcements at their 1 pm press conference.
  
  THE FOUR FREEDOMS FOR NZ
  
  1. Revoke all workplace vaccination mandates immediately (Monday 15th November 2021 deadline looming for many workers – No Jab, No Job)
  2. Revoke discriminating Traffic Light System (that segregates society into two classes of people…vaccinated and unvaccinated)
  
  3. Move all of New Zealand to Level 1 (let’s learn to live with COVID-19)
  
  4. Remove Auckland Border (it’s time to free Aucklanders) Otherwise, The Freedoms & Rights Coalition will be activating The Great Gridlock tomorrow.
  
  These are rolling gridlocks across this nation, across multiple days, for the foreseeable future, that will congest cities and towns on a mass scale, creating all manner of chaos and restricting supply chains.
  This chaos on key arterial routes in our cities and towns will be reflective of the social chaos we are currently suffering under across this nation, at the hands of this Labour government. This present government is taking us in the wrong direction.
  
  https://thebfd.co.nz/2021/11/12/today-is-d-day/
  
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  November 12, 2021 11:31am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Cool. Just so we are clear – I take it there is no level of covid deaths that would change your mind. We just have to take things on the chin and wait for it to stop. Or did I miss something ….
    
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    December 12, 2020 12:38pm
    - Fletch
      
      If Jacinda and Ashley were in front of me right now I would ask them, “are you really serious about getting rid of covid?” It seems they are pushing this vaccine to the exclusion of all else, such as therapeutic drugs like Ivermectin. They may have the best of intentions (although I am not convinced of that) but requiring people to take an experimental drug or else they lose their jobs, and requiring a passport to gain entry to services is just wrong.
      
      I have no problem with wearing a mask or social distancing but I draw the line at being forced to take an experimental drug which has been shown to have terrible side effects and even to cause death.
      
      Even Franklin Graham, the son of famous preacher Billy Graham, who is in favour of vaccination had to have an operation for pericarditis, to remove the pericardium from around his heart.
      
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      November 12, 2021 1:06pm
      - Batman
        
        There were a number of therapeutic drugs covered on the news over the last night or two. Ones that are approved and work, unlike human ivermectin which is not proven to satisfactory standards.
        
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        November 12, 2021 1:34pm
      - Fletch
        
        I know I keep on repeating myself like a broken record, but so do you. Ivermectin has proved very effective. Look at Utter Pradesh. Look at the several articles published in the American Journal of Therapeutics vis multiple trials. We know it works.
        
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        November 12, 2021 1:45pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Yet Remdesvir was approved and used in Nz despite the single main trial showing that it was ineffective.
        
        There are also a significant number of papers showing that Ivermectin works remarkably well, and a met study of all of them shows that it does work. Plus the fact that the strategy adopted by Uttar Pradesh and Delhi in Indi seems to have shown considerable effectiveness when the eschewed vaccination for the use of Ivermectin and a cocktail of immune supporting supplements.
        
        And Ivermectin is dirt cheap as well, which may be a problem as it makes money for nobody.
        
        But even if you can’t accept that for about $20 a head a treatment that just might reduce the severity of symptoms and associate deaths about the sme as vaccination could be made available. Why not at least investigate the possibility ? Send a small team to Uttar Pradesh, wouldn’t be that hard to see if they have fudged the numbers. Run a trial in NZ, every one diagnosed positive for Covid (except those needing immediate emergency care) could get a pack which contains Ivermectin and associated Vit D, Vit C, Zinc etc, or a set of placebos. You could get a result in less than a month and see results in less potentially – if it worked as it appears to.
        
        Yet ther is zero interest in a cheap no possibly remarkably effective treatment. At the same time, genuinely expensive new drugs proposed by the big Pharma companies are pre-purchased after a single trial, despite serious misgivings about possible side effects for some.
        
        In theory Ivermectin is a great product. It has a very high binding affinity for both the S protein and the ACE2 receptor, so it should make viral binding harder to achieve, and it also bind strongly to the viral protease that is necessary to turn the proteins initially manufactured by an infected cell into the shorter proteins used in assembling the virus. Plus it binds quite well to a third viral protein. Lots of reasons to give it a proper trial, but for some reason, nobody is almost allowed to try it.
        
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        November 12, 2021 2:00pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Good on you Fletch.
        
        I asked a question. Possible answers “yes” or “no”.
        
        You made up a different question that you liked better. Even answered it. One of the older tricks in the book.
        
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        November 12, 2021 2:49pm
      - rangitoto
        
        Ivermectin appears to be effective at suppressing the cases in India and Indonesia ever since they started using it. Check out their stats. They are doing much better than the highly vaxxed countries.
        
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        November 12, 2021 3:29pm
      - Fletch
        
        Ian, so far the number of deaths from Covid in NZ is 32 (I’m willing to let them have that shooting death). That is 0.00066% of the population.
        Worldwide the number is more like 0.2%
        So over 99.8% of the population have not died from Covid. So yeh, I am satisfied with this level of deaths.
        
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        November 12, 2021 9:04pm
  - dcrane
    
    Man I hope none of the people behind that protest are GCSB agent provocateurs.
    
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    November 12, 2021 2:14pm
- Nickc2
  
  She’s finally realised (or people have told her) that her purposeful separation of NZers into two classes of people (the Vaxed and the Unvaxed) was and still is a stupid idea and no votes will be gained from doing so.
  
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  November 12, 2021 11:32am
- krazykiwi
  
  Yeah, drive up jab rates because that’s really worked overseas hasn’t it? UK, Israel, Singapore, Germany, France etc etc. /s
  
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  November 12, 2021 12:06pm
Reid

The science behind the vax – clearly explained.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/xUJDgqDJGZIm/
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November 12, 2021 11:43am
Maggie Pie

Well butter my butt and take me to Paris…

‘Justice Palmer has found in favor of Cindy’
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November 12, 2021 11:50am
- Nickc2
  
  Palmer – He wears two left foot shoes on both feet.
  
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  November 12, 2021 12:01pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Yep….mandatory vaccination falls WITHIN the ‘Bill of Rights’.
    
    Who would of thunk that’d be the finding. LOL!!
    
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    November 12, 2021 12:30pm
  - chukar
    
    Not Sir Geoffrey P, please, please please say no , he has done more damage to NZ than any other politician in this country!
    
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    November 12, 2021 12:53pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Judge Palmer is Sir Geoffrey’s son…and is an expert on the TOW and our Constitution
      https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-58zklai/images/stencil/2048×2048/products/573/1706/treaty_of_waitangi_final_Sept__53542.1545098651.jpg?c=2
      
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      November 12, 2021 5:02pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  Because, and I’m not making this up:
  
  “losing your job is a reasonable cost for not doing what the Government tells you to do and since you can choose job or jab, you aren’t being forced so not covered by the BORA”
  
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  November 12, 2021 1:25pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I should have thought that libertarians were all in favour of choices having consequences.
    
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    November 12, 2021 2:57pm
ClanMcleod

Welcome to the hospital california……you can check in any time you like, but there might not be any doctors…

I very much enjoy reading this particular blogger. Always informative, often very witty.

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/welcome-to-the-hospital-california?
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November 12, 2021 11:52am
- krazykiwi
  
  Lives in Puerto Rico. Has a thing about cats, but doesn’t do Caps. Prolific poster. I subscribe.
  
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  November 12, 2021 12:02pm
lifesgood

Last night there was a massive fireworks display in Glen Innes, one of the biggest displays I’ve ever seen. The house was shaking and it felt like someone had just thrown a match into a powder keg. It would have cost many thousands of dollars. Apparently it was a “covid event” to encourage pacific people to get vaccinated. WTF! How does a free firework display make people get jabbed? It is amazing how much money the govt has to throw around willy nilly while businesses and families are on their knees.
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November 12, 2021 12:00pm
- lifesgood
  
  And I’ve just heard another one is planned at Mt Smart over the weekend.
  
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  November 12, 2021 1:39pm
- Clownworld
  
  Don’t worry Jacinda is so kind they will soon be spending your money on supporting the ever so free choices people make to not take the vaccine.
  
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  November 12, 2021 7:00pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi46X7jxhr8

Things Just Got Even Worse for Democrats in the 2022 Midterms.

Joe Biden’s approval rating is below 40 in several polls, and most Election Mafia polls show Republicans with a massive lead in next fall’s midterm elections. This means that Democrats are in for a rough time if this continues. [9:40. Lets go Brandon.]
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November 12, 2021 12:07pm
curry4me

https://www.bitchute.com/video/EdMFng9XDsc/

US Inflation at a 30 Year High.

Americans who weren’t alive when Jimmy Carter was president are getting a replay of Carterflation under Brandon and Cackles. [9:50. Let’s go, Brandon.]
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November 12, 2021 12:07pm
Reid

The big tell that this covid pandemic is cover for something much bigger going on, is the fact most nations around the world are following pretty much the same script with some minor variations to suit the flavour of their particular populations.

Here’s a letter from the Catholic archbishop who’s been calling out the pope as being the satanic p.o.s. he in fact obviously is, to demonstrators in Switzerland.

It’s useful because it shows the same issues we discuss every day on here re: matters covid, are also happening around the whole world, notably in this case, in what some might have thought would be the last bastion of freedom, Switzerland.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/11/exclusive-archbishop-vigano-shares-letter-tgp-directed-towards-tomorrows-protesters-health-tyranny-switzerland/

Archbishop Vigano Shares Letter with TGP Directed Towards Tomorrow’s Protesters Against Health Tyranny in Switzerland
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November 12, 2021 12:09pm
- Ian Boag
  
  Any sources other than the gateway pundit nutters?
  
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  November 12, 2021 12:41pm
  - Reid
    
    The letter itself Ian…
    
    Crikey.
    
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    November 12, 2021 1:06pm
    - dcrane
      
      The left has embraced the anti-intellectual attitude that a book can be entirely judged by its cover, and that perceived motives or allegiances nullify information produced by a source. Gateway pundit puts out lots of slapdash stuff, but when the facts are in their favor you can learn from them like anyone else.
      
      When I bring a mind-expanding nonestablishment sources to my leftie friends, they immediately turn to mummy Wikipedia to find out if they’re allowed to read it.
      
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      November 12, 2021 2:07pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      You mean the letter from the schismatic who wants (another) split in the church?
      
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      November 12, 2021 2:56pm
      - Reid
        
        I’m not surprised you can’t spot something’s very wrong with this pope mike, not surprised at all.
        
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        November 12, 2021 4:42pm
miltonF

I popped over to stuff recently (I know forgive me) and I was disgusted by the increasing rabidness of comments. I am actually shocked that the mods are allowing many of the comments. Many fit the traditional description of hate speech and some comments are clear incitement to violence.

If I was waking down the street and saw some poor soul screaming for help while having a medical event and I ignored them and walked right by, I could be charged with manslaughter. This has legal precedent. Yet I see many comments on stuff encouraging exactly that. “Just let the unvaccinated die – they should not get medical treatment” they say, with dozens of upvotes. Ironically these people think they are beacons of morality.

Is this not an incitement to manslaughter ie violence? I think the law is very clear on this.
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November 12, 2021 12:12pm
ABS4EVA

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/novavax-ceo-aim-complete-fda-155632671.html

What is the Rush with VACCINE Mandates

This is not timed to make as Much Money as possible before NOVAVAX rolls out

That would NEVER HAPPEN
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November 12, 2021 12:13pm
ClanMcleod

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO HAVE A VACCINE CERTIFICATE!

This was posted earlier by krazykiwi but it might have been missed by many in the other posts. It is incredibly important information. The CDC just admitted they have ZERO evidence of someone with natural immunity from covid having ever passed it to others. Yet they readily admit that fully jabbed can and do spread it.
Remind me again, what is the point of a vaccine certificate??????

CDC Admits Crushing Rights of Naturally Immune Without Proof They Transmit the Virus

https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/cdc-admits-crushing-rights-of-naturally?

“The lesson yet again is not that health authorities should never make mistakes. They will. It happens. The lesson is that civil and individual rights should never be contingent upon a medical procedure. Everyone, the naturally immune or otherwise, who wants to get vaccinated and boosted should be free to do so. But nobody should be coerced by the government to partake in any medical procedure.”
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November 12, 2021 12:15pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/300452781/doomed-village-in-wales-to-be-abandoned-to-the-sea
The British coastline has been changing drastically for hundreds of thousands of years, well before any man-made alterations to land, sea and air.
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November 12, 2021 12:16pm
- rangitoto
  
  Not just the British coastline. When Xerxes attacked through the “Hot Gates” in Greece, it was a narrow strip of land bounded by the sea on one side and mountains on the other and easily defended. It is now several miles to the sea and the site of the Spartan defense is buried under 20 meters of soil. In some places the land is eroding away and in others, the sea is retreating.
  
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  November 12, 2021 1:10pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    The Cinque Ports in Britain, once the five most important ports for trade with Europe 6-700 years are all now essentially inland and not ports at all. Plus ca la change…
    
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    November 12, 2021 2:04pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  There was an area in the N Sea called Doggerland and is now called the Dogger Bank. In WW 1 the RN and Germans fought a naval battle over it.
  
  On the Channel Coast some of the original Cinque Ports are several miles inland.
  
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  November 12, 2021 1:40pm
graham

How did we get to this point?

From just over a year ago, when Jacinda Ardern said that there will be no forced vaccinations, and those who choose to opt-out won’t face any penalties at all …

… to today, where schools are being told they can call the police if any unvaccinated teachers or staff turn up on school grounds next week, as they will be committing an offence.

That’s right. In Jacinda Ardern’s (“no penalties if you don’t get vaccinated”) New Zealand, a teacher who turns up for work next week to teach children will have the police called on them if they have exercised their democratic rights not to get vaccinated against Covid-19.
29 1
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November 12, 2021 12:38pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  JA. ‘Yep, that’s what it is’ or something.
  Said while rubbing hands together. Evil, just evil.
  
  15 1
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  November 12, 2021 2:07pm
Jack5

Will National’s surprising alliance with Labour to force councils to allow more dense housing make private electric vehicles uneconomic for many people?

The agreemnent’s goal is to force local bodies to allow housing of up to three storeys crowded on to what had been single-house sections.

According to a current article in the Wall Street Journal, home-charging of electric vehicles makes them typically cheaper to run than petrol-powered cars. However, at present American fast-charging sites’ costs, without home charging, EV’s are typically more expensive to fuel than petrol cars.

The National-Labour packed in housing threatens to allow tens of thousands of homes without car parking on the property. How are the residents going to home-charge EVs parked in the street?

How stupid of National to agree with Labour to such a contentious housing policy. The agreement lets Labour off the hook for problems with the new slums that will be created.

A reminder of the Labour-National agreement:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300433304/labour-national-announce-sweeping-housing-density-law-threestorey-homes-without-consent
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November 12, 2021 12:45pm
- [email protected]
  
  In addition to fast chargers being more expensive, they are also inconvenient. You have to disconnect when done because others will be waiting to use them.
  
  Fast charging also causes the battery to degrade faster.
  
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  November 12, 2021 5:32pm
- lifesgood
  
  Yep, disgusted with Judith Collins, and I have been one of her great supporters. Not any more.
  
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  November 12, 2021 5:35pm
Stellaboxer

Did anyone else shudder at Little explaining why he is putting together an inter agencies task force to combat a perceived threat of domestic terrorism born of anger through lockdowns? The beginnings of their secret police I think. All to keep us safe of course and no doubt they will have sweeping new powers. TV3 news I believe yesterday evening. Was he challenged over it? lol of course not.
28 1
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November 12, 2021 12:51pm
- dcrane
  
  Been waiting for the signs of this. Hard to imagine that these tactics being put to such good use on the American left won’t be imported here.
  
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  November 12, 2021 1:57pm
Yvette

The next ploy –
Jacinda Ardern considers moving all of NZ into ‘traffic light’ framework with Auckland to help drive COVID-19 vaccination rates up
What freedoms people have will be determined by vaccine certificates. For example, when Auckland enters the ‘red’ light, hospitality venues can open with up to 100 fully vaccinated people, but businesses that choose not to use certificates must remain contactless.
While that’s great for Auckland given its months of lockdown, Ardern has acknowledged in an interview with Newsroom’s Jo Moir that there is little incentive for people in alert level 2 to get vaccinated, because there are fewer freedoms for them under the traffic light system.
In alert level 2 Wellington, for example, unvaccinated people are free to enter any premises they choose. But when Wellington enters the traffic light system, suddenly people will be forced to prove they’ve been vaccinated to enter gyms, gigs, and more.
2 hours ago https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/11/jacinda-ardern-considers-moving-all-of-nz-into-traffic-light-framework-with-auckland-to-help-drive-covid-19-vaccination-rates-up.html

Here it comes …
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November 12, 2021 12:51pm
ecco

A*se about face coming for Ardern and co with all her hairbrained and conflicting rules and backing down from them all. Internal polls must be pretty shocking. She’s leaking stuff to peripheral media outlets like Newsroom which are then reported to the Ferald. All her henchmen ducking for cover now like Bloomfield, Wiles etc. Though Baker had the balls to say they are idiots even.

Should be entertaining to watch as long as your life isn’t being infringed on too badly by the omnishambles. (Aucklanders not in this category, their lives are being destroyed on a daily basis, especially hospo).

I’m hoping to travel to the US in late Feb, returning early March. Really hoping they’ve bought in home iso by then. What do you guys think? They surely can’t be still having managed iso by then eh?
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November 12, 2021 12:57pm
- Hollyfield
  
  They said working towards home isolation in the first quarter of next year. Based on past experience I think we can assume that will be starting maybe June/July etc.
  
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  November 12, 2021 1:48pm
  - ecco
    
    Well that’s a depressing prediction Hollyfield. Hopefully it’s before June/July or the 21k people locked out of nz are going to be pretty ropeable. Not to mention Air nz and Auckland airport will be on the brink of going bust if they take that long.
    
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    November 12, 2021 8:28pm
- dcrane
  
  I’ve been hoping for late January. Have to worry though that this crowd will make such a complicated mess out of it that it takes months longer than it should.
  
  7 0
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  November 12, 2021 1:54pm
Maggie Pie

Tell you what has gone very very quiet…..the ‘unexplained’ death of Pauline Polkinghorne 🙁

Last we heard, the police were interviewing her hubby at some sleazy dump on the remote shores of Mt Cook. He was holed-up there with an ‘Aussie Escort’. According to the Herald Sun, the pair were on a ‘lovers holiday’. Think her stage name was Madison something or other (?).
But that was about 5 months ago now. Since then, nothing.

I still take the dog for a walk past the house in Upland Rd, but stay on the other side of the road.
Everyone I speak to round here would just like closure.
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November 12, 2021 1:23pm
- Paul Marsden
  
  ‘Unexplained’ my big toe
  
  1 0
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  November 12, 2021 6:24pm
- Inthe09
  
  Wasn’t the house for sale? Did it sell?
  
  2 0
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  November 12, 2021 7:04pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Still on the market
    
    0 1
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    November 12, 2021 11:19pm
- fernglas
  
  “just like closure” Poor little Remmers, eh, Mags? Wants to know whether all their gossip was right? Or are they more concerned about the effect on real estate prices?
  
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  November 12, 2021 7:29pm
Reid

Documentary on the creation of the govt propaganda machine.

In 1928 Sigmund Freud’s nephew Edward Bernays wrote the book Propaganda. The very book Joseph Goebbels used to brainwash 1930s Germany.

He wrote it after being a member of Woodrow Wilson’s World War I Propaganda Council, which was put together to dehumanize the Germans and create support for entering the war.

It is the foundation of our current government propaganda machine.

https://rumble.com/vb4y1z-10920-the-counsel-on-public-relations.html
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November 12, 2021 1:25pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Those Germans sure got a rough reputation for starting WWI.
  
  4 4
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  November 12, 2021 2:53pm
I remember when

Does the return of pupils/students/children to learning institutions, and the level of debate about associated dangers, reflect poorly on our educators.
It is not unreasonable to expect them to be somewhere near the forefront of covid knowledge.
Sadly, news media items suggest this is far from the case.
Mind you, the government is probably more than happy to go along with them while they find a working answer to the qualified staffing availability.
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November 12, 2021 1:40pm
Fletch

WHat a crock. Judge decides that “no jab, no job” is not a violation of Bill of Rights.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/126931324/mandate-to-get-covid19-vaccination-not-a-breach-of-bill-of-rights-high-court-judge-rules
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November 12, 2021 2:02pm
- Hard Cheese
  
  Yep – mandated vaccination is an unreasonable restriction of rights because there are alternatives available (PCR testing and rapid antigen testing) that are being unreasonably withheld.
  
  “The principal medico-legal advisor at medical professional indemnity provider Medicus, Dr Peter Robinson, welcomed the vaccine mandate recently brought into law.
  
  He said that a “no jab, no job” mandate was not a human rights violation.
  
  “The whole idea of a vaccination programme is to keep communities safe – it doesn’t work if those working closely with some of our most medically vulnerable could potentially pass on a deadly virus.”
  
  Surely a teacher/nurse that has regular PCR or rapid antigen tests that prove negative is actually SAFER for the community than a double-jabbed teacher/nurse who can still be infected and spreading COVID all over the place.
  
  What am I missing here?
  
  17 2
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  November 12, 2021 4:44pm
  - Clownworld
    
    Just missing the globalists hypnotic brainwashing of people in power. When logic goes then the reasons why they are doing this creates mystery.
    This leads to all sorts of theories to try to explain why. The problem now is that people are too deceived and too invested in values that groupthink has taken over.
    
    No matter how ridiculous the rules are , the responses are, when it all makes no sense….ask yourself What are you thinking,? What are you feeling? Sometimes that feeling of helplessness becomes resignation..(.hence the great reset resignation) and then surrender…submission …it is just easier.
    
    Ask yourself what your redline is?
    
    Your job?
    Your access to food?
    Your health?
    Your family?
    Your life?
    
    That will never happen in NZ and never happen in world?
    
    Wake up it is only just beginning.
    
    …
    
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    November 12, 2021 7:16pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s only the High Court. Two more levels to go.
  
  6 1
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  November 12, 2021 5:56pm
In Vino Veritas

Hollywood pile in on Kyle Rittenhouse. Despite the evidence coming out in the trial of course:

Rosanna Arquette: Kyle Rittenhouse is a murderer. The End.
George Takai: If you want to see how justice often leans hard toward privilege, watch the judge in the Rittenhouse case. A deplorable example, indeed.
Chad Lindberg Kyle Rittenhouse is a murderer and terrible fucking actor…

And so, so many more. Lets just hope that they are not abject hypocrites and let loose on Alec Baldwin, after all, he shot and killed someone that wasn’t even attacking him. But given their track record, no one should hold their breath.
11 1
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November 12, 2021 2:09pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  It looks like the Prosecutor’s big hail merry is an artificially enhanced photo that “proves” Rittenhouse pointed his gun at one of the “protesters”. This is then used as provocation for the guy that was hiding behind cars to attack him from behind which would lose Rittenhouse self defense.
  
  Except he fled Rosenbaum so they had to prove that pointing the gun at the other guy was explicitly with the intent of provoking someone into attacking him so that he could kill them (at which point fleeing doesn’t matter).
  
  There’s also the irony that the guy he allegedly pointed his gun at had literally just fired his own gun and the fact Rittenhouse didn’t fire at the guy whilst feeling threatened pretty much shoots the dangerous disregard AND Recklessness avenues to bits.
  
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  November 12, 2021 4:30pm
- alex Masterley
  
  The “Film Actors Guild” is obviously re-born.
  
  4 1
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  November 12, 2021 4:31pm
greybeard

This article looks interesting.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/126970363/new-research-identifies-key-to-discouraging-procrastination

I will read it later.
20 1
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November 12, 2021 2:10pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  I could make time on Sunday to read it – maybe.
  
  7 3
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  November 12, 2021 2:52pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Well the 2pm deadline for Jaspinda to stop her socialist Covid nonsense has passed. What time does the revolution start?
19 4
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November 12, 2021 2:16pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Okay
  You say you want a revolution
  Well, you know
  We all want to change the world
  You tell me that it’s evolution
  Well, you know
  We all want to change the world
  
  9 5
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  November 12, 2021 2:22pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    2.22 Mike. Have a super bad hangover?
    Drink more often, become immune.
    Nice song anyway
    
    3 5
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    November 12, 2021 4:20pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Mike.
    You say you got a real solution
    Well, you know
    We’d all love to see the plan
    You ask me for a contribution
    Well, you know
    We’re all doing what we can.
    You say you’ll change the constitution
    Well, you know
    We’d all love to change your head
    You tell me it’s the institution
    Well, you know
    You better free your mind instead.
    
    But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
    You ain’t going to make it with anyone anyhow
    Don’t you know it’s gonna be (all right)
    Don’t you know it’s gonna be (all right)
    Don’t you know it’s gonna be (all right)
    
    5 4
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    November 12, 2021 4:39pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      You started it sonny, I will finish
      
      2 5
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      November 12, 2021 4:40pm
      - Mike
        
        You could always sing Revolution 9 as an encore.
        
        3 1
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        November 12, 2021 7:19pm
CAKE FACE1

Cindy has said in the past that she has a number of mental illnesses – amongst others, she suffers from an anxiety disorder and from imposter syndrome.

CAKE has noticed that she is now looking like a prisoner of war – her thinness is bordering on anorexia.

CAKE has noticed her behaviour recently has become more erratic and strange by the week.

Recently, she is hiding away, like a severely depressed person might do.

I wonder if Cindy is in the throes of a full-blown mental breakdown.

If this is the case, Cindy should resign. Every day of lockdown is damaging the country further.

NZ in these difficult times needs a leader that is mentally strong. Alas, I suspect that Cindy isn’t mentally well.
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November 12, 2021 2:54pm
- raven
  
  She may also be causing a massive surge of mental illness to people in NZ, as a direct result of her lockdowns, division, mandates and traffic lights.
  
  That is her legacy.
  
  Time to step down Jacinda.
  
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  November 12, 2021 4:12pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    There has been a lot of talk about severe depression in youngers etc. Experts experts experts with opinions but no fact.
    Almost like telling kids they are allowed to be depressed.
    Control, socialist/commie control – this is just in NZ!
    Then come the media telling kids on the play school TV1 ewes – as if they watch that shit. Dumb and Mad watch ir and program the ferals.
    
    7 2
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    November 12, 2021 5:36pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Her dress sense is shocking. Looks like she found a suitcase full of Grandma’s clothes
  
  13 3
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  November 12, 2021 4:16pm
  - lifesgood
    
    Poor girl only works part time. She probably doesn’t earn enough to buy decent clothes. Sarc/
    
    3 1
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    November 12, 2021 5:38pm
- Peter S
  
  Can’t be imposter syndrome, as that needs to be based upon unwarranted or illogical feelings of inadequacy.
  
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  November 12, 2021 5:26pm
JibberJabber

☀️Breaking News: ☀️
A man who died of covid whilst being shot is NZs first Climate Change death.

From you know where….
20 2
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November 12, 2021 3:00pm
Truman lodge

I’m surprised Vaxinda didn’t add
sputnik V to the portfolio of vaccines..
7 1
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November 12, 2021 3:02pm
Aredhel777

The New Zealand Herald is shaming women because choices they made about their own bodies led to unborn children dying. P.S. Note that the pre-human has miraculously transformed into a “premature baby”.

You cannot. Make. This. Stuff. Up.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/covid-19-delta-outbreak-mum-doesnt-regret-not-getting-jab-after-her-premature-baby-dies/U3BQ5ZXDTVJ2UTEHGQX7MJJUKY/
13 2
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November 12, 2021 3:08pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Here be propaganda. Two key words – not jabbed and premature. So the media almost make you think it is in NZ (herald) but it is in the UK following the link.
  Sorry about the downtick Aredhel – fat fingers
  
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  November 12, 2021 4:13pm
- lifesgood
  
  Pre-human???? What?
  
  3 0
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  November 12, 2021 5:39pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

OK State Sector Employees. Past 4pm. Got you handbag packed and cleaned your lunchbox? Time to have a quick craft beer shandy at the pub on the way to the train station.
Truth be known, you have been drinking 2 stroke since lunchtime. Hurry up! and don’t come back until 9am Monday
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November 12, 2021 4:07pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/126970782/quilton-toilet-paper-no-longer-available-in-new-zealand-after-manufacturer-closes-down

Quilton business Wiped Out
Quilton business reaches rock-Bottom
Quilton business Rolls-over
9 0
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November 12, 2021 4:35pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Pukapuka leaves for sale. Truck outside Glenfield Mall //
  
  6 2
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  November 12, 2021 5:00pm
- Bluegrass
  
  Bummer!
  
  6 0
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  November 12, 2021 5:04pm
- skyblue
  
  Time to stock up then.
  
  2 0
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  November 12, 2021 6:01pm
- JibberJabber
  
  Lucky I’ve stocked up then, the first sign of an impending Socialist utopia is the scarcity of shithouse paper.
  Don’t like to say I told you so, but I told you so.
  I lie, I do like to say it….??
  
  5 1
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  November 12, 2021 7:00pm
ecco

About to find out who’s actually calling the shots in this country. (excuse the pun). I see the 8 iwi are demanding that Taranaki be put into level 3 lockdown due to the outbreak there. Interesting to see what Ardern does here.

So the Maori refuse to get vaccinated and then demand that an area get locked down when covid crops up. This country is stuffed.
8 1
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November 12, 2021 6:24pm
TS Child

Check out stuff front page: Nurses say there could be more deaths {home isolation} Govt says system working well. Aside from possibly the funniest thing I’ve read today, do you suppose there are still editors, or… could it have been deliberate?? Either way it’s glorious!
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November 12, 2021 6:26pm
stroker08

Bullshit.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2021/11/stats-nz-survey-finds-4-2-percent-of-population-is-lgbt-with-0-8-percent-transgender.html
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November 12, 2021 6:38pm
Maggie Pie

Just caught ex-PM Helen Clark on ‘7 Sharp’.
She’s certainly not looking any younger.
Wondering if I might put her in touch with my partner’s mum?
6 3
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November 12, 2021 7:30pm
Surely Knott

Guy describing how his kid went to school. The school has a covid case and everyone is sent home to get a test. The kid gets a test and then a negative result and as per email instructions goes back to school the following day. Then the parent gets a call from the MOH saying that child is classed as close contact simply because he’s unvaccinated. Meanwhile at the school his son and the other unvaccinated kids are pulled out of class and taken to a private room, chastised about lack of vaccination and sent home again (despite having negative tests.)
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=316887893242520
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November 12, 2021 11:01pm

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