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November 19, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 19 November 2021

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General Debate

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Maggie's partner

So here’s may take on what’s going to happen next. I really want people who disagree to explain what they think will happen, because to my way of thinking this path is unavoidable.

HEALTH
Allowing Aucklanders to travel freely will spread the virus throughout the country.
We will see a massive upsurge in case numbers
Some of those will require hospital treatment
Our health system will be overwhelmed.
People will die – some due to COVID, some because the overwhelming of the hospitals will mean they cannot be treated for other things.

ECONOMY
Rising interest rates will put enormous pressure on both consumers and a heavily indebted government. Mortgage rates have increased by 60% in the last 6 months. More to come. If you doubt that, look at the bond market. To be able to pay its rising bills, the government will either have to cut services or increase revenue (taxation).
We are at or near full employment. The prospect of a wage / price inflationary spiral looms.
Inflation is far worse than we think. No-one in our current government has any experience of dealing with rampant inflation.

HOUSING
Rising interest rates, the CCCFA and rising cost of building materials, coupled with worsening supply issues, will make a mess of the housing market. New build numbers will decrease. Overstretched young first home buyers who are refixing their short term mortgages at double what they were will come under pressure. Many will be forced to sell. These forced sales will be snapped up by investors taking advantage of the beneficial tax regime, leading to further housing inequity.

SOCIETY
When we had the goal of Elimination, the myth of the Team of 5 million was created and endured. We were one people, with one country, and one leader.
Now we have no plan, no goal, and have become 5 million teams of 1.
Some no longer care about the future. Many are seething, angry that all the sacrifices we have made are in vain. Protests are commonplace. As are gang related crimes. This will worsen.

GOVERNMENT
It has become apparent to all but the blindest that our government is lead by a populist sociopath. Each and every decision now being taken is driven by her need to liked. The good of the people has been discarded and rots on the scrapheap. Her inability to confront and deal with those who disagree has been laid bare, and she hides away.
Any vain and fragile person, when faced with dislike and distrust, will run to a safe place. She will, I believe, resign before Easter, and then god have mercy on us, as the weak is replaced with the truly incompetent, at a time when only the strongest and most able would be capable of leading us out of the mire in which we will wallow.
When I came to New Zealand 20 years ago it was a happy, prosperous and united country. I hardly recognise it any more.
To misappropriate, and to misquote Mark Twain, we need a Messiah, and we need John Key. But then I repeat myself.
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November 19, 2021 8:00am
- Taieri
  
  Each and every decision now being taken is driven by her need to liked.
  ——————–
  
  Sad, but unfortunately true.
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:42am
  - lifesgood
    
    Does she not realise that each and every decision she makes is making her LESS liked? Someone should tell her.
    
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    November 19, 2021 11:36am
    - KiwiSapper
      
      Large numbers of us do, whenever she decides to make a rare visit to the outside world. Recent examples being, Whangrei, Wanganui, Gisborne, Wellington.
      
      But she dismisses our protestations.
      
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      November 19, 2021 3:04pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Nope, tell her nothing. Just get the popcorn out
      
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      November 19, 2021 3:41pm
  - Russ the Muss
    
    But she has a direct hotline to cuddles Coster who can arrest any political dissenters if required! Banana republic stuff.
    
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    November 19, 2021 2:37pm
  - Jim
    
    “Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake”
    ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
    
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    November 19, 2021 6:50pm
- westernScientest
  
  A small disagreement:
  “To be able to pay its rising bills, the government will either have to cut services or increase revenue (taxation).”
  
  While any rational person would come to this conclusion, its not really the case. The Left disassociate taxation and spending, tax is there to punish those they dont like and spending is there to reward those they do. No need for them to balance anything. I see much more borrowing in the future, even if it means that they have to go full banana and remove the central bank all together and print currency themselves. Of course this just adds to the inflation issues you identified, and to trade, investment, dollar issues.
  
  “She will, I believe, resign before Easter” I think it will be longer than that, she will be in witless protection for most of it, but I think she will be around until the health issues really turn to shit in the winter. No real reason though its just a guess.
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:48am
- ds
  
  Yes, New Zealand was a was a happy, prosperous and united country. Then about 20 years ago we opened our doors to a flood of migrants who all seem to want to turn New Zealand into the the shit holes they came from.
  
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  November 19, 2021 9:03am
  - riffer
    
    Holy crap. Which xenophobic little rock did you crawl out from under?
    
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    November 19, 2021 12:10pm
  - Jim
    
    Clearly you don’t appreciate that for one, our stumbling health care system is staffed by very competent people from the world over.
    
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    November 19, 2021 6:53pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Mostly agree, but if the probelm really is that the leader is a populist driven by a need to be liked, it seems strange to suggest John Key as the solution. Bill English maybe.
  
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  November 19, 2021 9:04am
  - Maggie's partner
    
    Two key (no pun intended) differences would be experience and ability. Especially ability.
    
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    November 19, 2021 9:16am
  - Nickc2
    
    I agree, but it’s going to take a really brave, dedicated and competent person to clean up the shit this Govt has created and as far as I can see, this person’s not even on the horizon yet.
    
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    November 19, 2021 9:22am
  - Sacha
    
    Whatever his other shortcomings, John Key is a money man. He knew how to balance the books, and create a hopeful outlook so that people feel that they can work towards the future.
    The smiling geniality might have infuriated some, but it transferred to the rest of us. We felt secure – or at least that the the government’s direction was leading towards security.
    Compare that to NZ today: we have a leader who professes (with an earnest face) to worry about us all – and guess what – we have a worried country. Everyone is worried one way or another, either for their own personal health, or for the governance of our country (New Zealand).
    We have given loving-kindness, wrapped in socialist cling wrap, a chance and it’s not working.
    It’s time to get back to what we know works.
    
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    November 19, 2021 9:32am
    - pdm
      
      John Key PM with Bill English Finance Minister and Tony Ryall Health and State Services provided a solid competent base for the government.
      
      When Ryall flagged it part of the solid base wasn’t there and the ship wasn’t quite so stable.
      
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      November 19, 2021 7:24pm
    - Fight4NZ
      
      The parallels of inexplicable popularity based on vacuous devious calls for unity of the current PM and the previous while negligence fucks the country behind the curtain is uncanny now that you look at it.
      
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      November 19, 2021 11:18pm
  - Paulus
    
    Either – ABA, anybody except Ardern, and Robertson.
    Need a red cap.
    
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    November 19, 2021 10:23am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    John Key surrounded himself with smart people…Bill English, Steven Joyce etc. Cindy has surrounded herself with……….
    
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    November 19, 2021 10:58am
    - bronny1
      
      Numpties
      
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      November 19, 2021 4:03pm
- cmm
  
  The double-whammy of inflation and increasing mortgages is going to pinch.
  
  Very few people seem to realise that the 5% or so inflation hits them on after tax income. It does not require a 5% pay increase to compensate for that. It requires 8%. Anyone getting a 5% pay increase is basically going backwards by 2-3%.
  
  And that reduced salary has to go further with increased mortgages.
  
  You are correct in the erosion of NZ. I came here 29 years ago. It has certainly eroded in that time. NZ was a prosperous and resilient place. This is not the NZ that made it through the GFC much better than elsewhere.
  
  The performance during the GFC should not be attributed to Key but to English. Key did, however, create a space in which people like English could perform well.
  
  That no longer happens. Firstly, Cindy – like Auntie Helen – micromanages everything. Secondly she is surrounded by incompetents – there are no people of any note in her cabinet.
  
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  November 19, 2021 9:19am
  - Nickc2
    
    There are lots of notable people in her cabinet, but all for the wrong reason!
    
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    November 19, 2021 9:26am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    cmm,
    
    If you arrived in 1992, you would have done so in the middle of the worst recession since the 1930’s with unemployment above 10%, and a reduction in output and living standards of about 5%. Things seemed quite grim. At the time I was living on The Shore and commuting to the city. Traffic volumes were way down from the previous period. Though I appreciate that for you coming from South Africa the immediate contrast was that New Zealand would have seemed a haven of peace.
    
    The subsequent years from 1994 right through to the onset of Covid have been much more prosperous than the late 1980’s and early 1990’s with the country in generally a more harmonious state. Even the GFC and the Christchurch earthquakes did not really perturb that, at least not when viewed from an Auckland perspective.
    
    Of course Covid has changed all of that, but I reckon within 12 to 18 months Covid will all be in the past.
    
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    November 19, 2021 10:14am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      but I reckon within 12 to 18 months Covid will all be in the past.
      
      I reckon in 12 months time, many of us will be hanging out for #3 booster and wondering what to wear at yet another mate’s funeral / tangi/life celebration service.
      
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      November 19, 2021 10:20am
      - bronny1
        
        At least you will be allowed to attend and shop in person for outfit!
        
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        November 19, 2021 4:05pm
      - Alan1930
        
        “I reckon in 12 months time, many of us will be hanging out for #3 booster”
        
        Vaccinologists seem to think otherwise.
        
        https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/11/15/annual-booster-of-covid-vaccine-likely-not-needed-expert/
        
        Who to belive? A credentialled vaccinologist or an unqualified blog poster? Tough one …
        
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        November 19, 2021 6:20pm
    - Cassandra
      
      Wishful thinking, Wayne. But we might have learned to live with it.
      
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      November 19, 2021 10:47am
    - cmm
      
      Wayne: Indeed NZ did seem like a haven of peace and prosperity compared to South Africa – even if NZ was just emerging from financial downturns (of which I was obviously oblivious since I did not live here at the time).
      
      In 1992 it was wonderful to walk amongst people of all races and never see “White Guilt” thrown in my face as I had encountered in South Africa. Something that has certainly gone backwards since then.
      
      In 1992, having been in NZ for 6 weeks or so, I traveled to Wellington for a two day conference and ended up staying in a hotel there overnight. In the bar we met up with a bunch of teachers at an education conference. One of them said that a few, very few radical teachers were pressing for “Maori knowledge” to be included in the science syllabus – laughing it off that it wouldn’t ever happen and that more than 99% of teachers were vocally opposed to the idea. 29 years later look where we are!
      
      In 1992, we’d go grocery shopping at the Glenn Innes Pak-n-Save which had a long-running picket due to some workers striking. The first time we went was two days after getting to NZ. In South Africa you’d never drive through a mob like that – they’d turn your car over and set you on fire. Our friends later told us it was 100% safe and so it proved to be, everyone politely waving at each other. I’m not that sure I’d feel safe driving through a picket line today.
      
      There is no way NZ is more harmonious now than it was ten years ago and I think you’d find it very hard backing it up with hard numbers (eg. crime rates, column inches of race-baiting in the media).
      
      I don’t think you can blame this on CV19 either. The rot was well established before 2020. CV19 has, however, been exploited to push the agenda harder.
      
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      November 19, 2021 5:27pm
  - Paulus
    
    I concur, and we came 50 years ago, on a 3 year contract.
    
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    November 19, 2021 10:23am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  The weak replaced with the truly incompetent. Sorry M’s P, but the weak and incompetent are already in the house. Nothing much will change other than another weak and incompetent will become Labour leader. Also, on housing, investors snapping up properties as FHB go to wall with increased rates? Perhaps. Only if they are flush with cash and can pay up front. Else they’ll have to think about non-availability of interest deductions, and the inability to raise rents with inflation.
  Otherwise, yep, you’ve pretty much nailed it.
  
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  November 19, 2021 9:26am
- Bob
  
  driven by her need to liked…..
  driven by her desire to appeal to the similarly minded Marxists who control the United Nations; hence her goal of COMMUNISING NZ as a demonstration of earning her BADGE to the Marxist Club.
  
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  November 19, 2021 9:28am
- John Pakes
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  The thought that came to my mind as I read this follows from your comment that you needed people who disagreed with your view to explain themselves.
  I am left with the impression that you consider your opinion to be right and proper and that someone who disagrees would have difficulty putting up an argument. At least an argument that would live on this page and not be hurriedly down ticked into obscurity.
  But surely you know now, that New Zealand is awash with opinions that would be in complete disagreement with yours? So why do you need explanation?
  Is it because you are living in an echo chamber, and that you are only receptive to views and opinions that mirror yours?
  
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  November 19, 2021 9:45am
  - westernScientest
    
    Maybe you would care to share one of these opinions?
    
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    November 19, 2021 9:48am
  - Clownworld
    
    Asking for an alternative explanation is critical. It shows an open mind.
    
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    November 19, 2021 10:00am
  - cmm
    
    … or, in other words, feelz is more important than facts…
    
    Yes there are a multitude of opinions, but some opinions are worth more than others.
    
    We should all be open to changing our opinions based on new evidence, but that is impossible to do when it’s all just based on feelz.
    
    This is the sad thing with elevating feelz. Feelz-based opinions cannot be challenged. They cannot be discussed.
    
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    November 19, 2021 10:15am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Waiting for your explanation/rebuttal to everything that was said. I can see no fault in it and I was a 45 year staunch Labour supporter until a five years ago.
    
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    November 19, 2021 10:41am
  - Maggie's partner
    
    you really did miss the point; I am saying this is the only path I can see. I have tried to see others but failed. So if someone can see another path, please explain it so I can assess its merits (as opposed to just slagging me off, which suggests in your heart of hearts you agree with me)
    
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    November 19, 2021 10:52am
    - Maggie's partner
      
      Oh and by the way, John Pakes, you do sound like a complete and utter twat.
      
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      November 19, 2021 10:54am
      - cmm
        
        Maggie: Fetch the poor bugger a beer!
        
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        November 19, 2021 5:30pm
- Clownworld
  
  Agree.
  Some further thoughts.
  
  Economy
  The universal basic income will be borrowed on as so many will be out of work or refuse to comply with increasing govt mandates. The UBI will be a global debt in time to control the masses. Comply or no UBI.
  
  Govt
  NZ part of a new regional economic and poltical geographic region as per UN plans over last 20yrs. Probably Jacinda or Dan or some new messiah selected by the globalists will dictate over a wider area.
  
  NZ to be ruled by Maori and other interests not all NZers.
  
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  November 19, 2021 10:07am
- thirteenstars
  
  Oh, a GST hike is coming. It’s the most lucrative source of income for a government because it cannot be avoided and it hits everyone. And in NZ we have a regime where almost nothing is exempt from GST.
  
  And I wouldn’t be surprised if we see serious discussion and reports about a “transaction tax” where financial transactions incur a tiny fee adding up to massive revenue, this being the Holy Grail of big government types as it makes the GST grab look like small change.
  
  Never let an emergency go to waste. You asked for it NZ, even though you think you didn’t.
  
  As Mencken said:
  
  “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”
  
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  November 19, 2021 10:26am
  - sooty
    
    A dead granny tax will be a winner, going by all the predictions everywhere in the media!
    Maybe not! By all acounts it’s going to be the lower socioeconomic group popping their clogs, you need alot of them to equal just one richlister!
    
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    November 19, 2021 12:15pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    I’ve been predicting another GST rise ever since English put it up to 15% to enable “tax cuts”. Given the typical Euro VAT level of 20% it was inevitable we’d get there sooner or later.
    
    The really good news is that Green-Labour will wet themselves with delight when a future National/ACT Finance Minister is the one who does it. They’ll have no choice since the alternative would be to shrink the size of government and cut spending hard, and since the Ruth Richardson burn-marks of 1993 were laid on National’s soggy white ass, they’re never stepping that way again.
    
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    November 19, 2021 12:15pm
    - thirteenstars
      
      “Given the typical Euro VAT level of 20% it was inevitable we’d get there sooner or later.”
      
      Indeed, was going to mention that Labour would find justification for a hike in our somewhat lower sales tax rate compared to the European socialist models it admires.
      
      Which is why I admonish my American friends not to fall for the national sales tax argument because it never stops rising and is a boon to all manner of invasive policies.
      
      Yet in NZ we live with this myth that we’re so well taken care of by the state taxes are a price worth paying. Yet we are impoverished in so many invisible and insidious ways by all manner of consumption taxes. And who gets the blame? Capitalism of course. People don’t see the tax component, all they see is the price of petrol, the price of alcohol, the huge chunk of everything that amounts to GST and the spread of those tax effects throughout all prices which makes every person poorer and more highly taxed than the more obvious personal tax rate.
      
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      November 19, 2021 1:31pm
  - cmm
    
    I’m not so sure we’ll see more GST from Labour in a hurry. GST is considered to negatively impact poorer people because it is a flat tax and therefore not a progressive tax.
    
    If they do introduce GST then we can expect:
    * Seeing the bottom tax thresholds being pushed up (to make the GST increase go away for low earners).
    * Increases in dole and WFF to make it go away.
    * Differential GST. eg. 20% on everything, except 0% on fruit & veg, menstrual products and such.
    
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    November 19, 2021 5:36pm
- Thought Criminal
  
  Well said. Mostly agree.
  
  I don’t think she’ll quit though. Socialism/Statism is like a religion and she won’t stop believing no matter how much evidence of failure there is. She’ll go down at an election next time or the one after and when she does she’ll believe it was the voters who were wrong, not her.
  
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  November 19, 2021 10:36am
- Tempist
  
  SOCIETY
  When we had the goal of Elimination, the myth of the Team of 5 million was created and endured. We were one people, with one country, and one leader.
  
  … or as the Germans used to say ‘Ein volk, ein reich, ein fuhrer’…
  
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  November 19, 2021 10:54am
  - Maggie's partner
    
    Tempist, you win today’s prize for both reading AND understanding!
    
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    November 19, 2021 12:18pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  Would agree with everything except.
  “We are at or near full employment.”
  Govt. unemployment numbers are not any indication of EMPLOYMENT.
  Consider
  The number of business’ gone under, taking jobs with them.
  The number of “for lease” signs on main st of every town.
  Wage subsidies are just the dole by a different name and does nothing for REAL employment
  Low numbers on the unemployment benefit, does not take into account of people PUT on other benefits to avoid counting them….a trick learned from Helen Clark.
  
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  November 19, 2021 11:03am
  - bronny1
    
    It also doesn’t account for people who have lost their job but are ineligible until they spend everything they have saved
    
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    November 19, 2021 4:10pm
- surfing
  
  “Our health system will be overwhelmed.”
  
  Heard Andrew Little on two occassions say this isn’t true. They are over prepared if anything, and he has ensured there will be enough hospital beds for when covid starts to spreading ( from 15th Dec).
  
  Although, I’ve heard Andrew Little get mostly everything wrong that he has said in the past.
  
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  November 19, 2021 11:30am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Is that the same Andrew Little who wasted millions of taxpayers’ $$$$$ on recovering bugga-all at Pike River Mine?
    
    New Zealand government lies about Pike River mine re-entry promises
    
    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/08/12/pike-a12.html
    
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    November 19, 2021 1:01pm
  - bronny1
    
    Is this the same guy who promised good at home care for people w covid, tthen sent them a thermometer and a box of muesli bars and left them to die ?
    
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    November 19, 2021 4:11pm
- Aquataur
  
  Totally agree MP
  Only way out is to leave before the SHTF
  
  Will Australia fare better?
  
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  November 19, 2021 11:46am
- ecco
  
  Agree with all of your points. Not sure Key is the answer though. He is very China friendly and immigration friendly.
  You didn’t touch on immigration. Ardern will fling open the immigration gates via refugee quota and emerging market countries. This will fire up the Auckland housing market further.
  Densification and ugly greed driven developers will wreck the historic inner city suburbs of NZ cities.
  Tax increases are certain. However that won’t stop any labour government from irresponsible election bribes target especially at their student and female voters.
  Based on Steven Joyce’s ideas in his nzh column it would be great to see him as part of any right leaning administration. I agree with others that there is a lot of immigration under John Key, and I think the Auckland market and infrastructure can’t take it.
  
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  November 19, 2021 2:37pm
- KiwiSapper
  
  “………..Mortgage rates have increased by 60% in the last 6 months…………’
  Yet curiously, the interest rates payable to me by three banks I have investments with have not increased by more than 1% during the same period.
  
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  November 19, 2021 3:07pm
- CSadler
  
  I strongly disagree on employment. Sitting on the couch “earning” the subsidy is not employment. When the subsidies stop we will see what the actual unemployment looks like – you can call the unemployed jobseekers or “Suzy” for all I care but they are by definition unemployed.
  
  At the lower end of the employment game (unskilled, inexperienced) it is nigh on impossible to hire as these people simply will not work for what they are worth. Why? because they are “worth more” on the couch (to the government funded by the ever reducing productive taxpayers).
  
  Like all good socialist governments Labour will run out of OPM even sooner than I expected. I am sure they have no idea how to stop the current cash recycling game without this become apparent to even the most modern economist before the next popularity contest. To use the standard line “we will see who has been swimming naked when the tide goes out”.
  
  I agree on inflation – Robbo has made sure the cash is sloshing around looking for a home. So the frugal or retired are rewarded by having their hard earned nest eggs decimated (or double or triple decimated…)
  
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  November 19, 2021 3:38pm
- Alan1930
  
  “HEALTH
  Allowing Aucklanders to travel freely will spread the virus throughout the country.
  We will see a massive upsurge in case numbers
  Some of those will require hospital treatment
  Our health system will be overwhelmed.
  People will die – some due to COVID, some because the overwhelming of the hospitals will mean they cannot be treated for other things.”
  
  It will spread regardless; the only variable is the time that’s going to take; people are too selfish & complacent to follow sensible rational infection control protocols – thus – vaccinations are our only realistic tool for fighting it … and people who wish to protect themselves by getting vaccinated have now had more than enough time to do so. People have made their beds; now it’s time to lie in them.
  
  “ECONOMY
  Rising interest rates will put enormous pressure on both consumers and a heavily indebted government.”
  
  True, but no different to pretty much every economy around the world; they’ve all been decimated by the pandemic response.
  
  “Mortgage rates have increased by 60% in the last 6 months. More to come.”
  
  So what – they’re still lover than they were 2 years ago. Interest rates have always been somewhat volatile.
  
  “If you doubt that, look at the bond market. To be able to pay its rising bills, the government will either have to cut services or increase revenue (taxation).”
  
  Or lower costs through improving efficiency. Or rely on GDP increases (ie “pay rises”) to offset a lot of the problem — which is likely to occur due to the inflation.
  
  “We are at or near full employment. The prospect of a wage / price inflationary spiral looms.”
  
  As is does now for most countries.
  
  “Inflation is far worse than we think. No-one in our current government has any experience of dealing with rampant inflation.”
  
  Inflation isn’t “far worse than we think”; it is what it is – and that will be reported accurately in due course as it always has. Fundamentally the government had 2 choices; (a) not borrow & support – let business fail (with the resulting loss of tax revenues) or (b) borrow and support the economy. I’ve yet to see a compelling business case for (a).
  
  “HOUSING
  Rising interest rates, the CCCFA and rising cost of building materials, coupled with worsening supply issues, will make a mess of the housing market. New build numbers will decrease.”
  
  It’s already a mess and has been for some time. Supply is what’s needed; being far more favourable to tiny homes would go a long way.
  
  “Overstretched young first home buyers who are refixing their short term mortgages at double what they were will come under pressure. Many will be forced to sell. ”
  
  Then that’s the consequence of their decisions. Back in my day we called it “due dilligence” and “taking personal responsibility”.
  
  “These forced sales will be snapped up by investors taking advantage of the beneficial tax regime, leading to further housing inequity.”
  
  Maybe – maybe not. Given the reduced propensity for CG due to what’s expected to be stagnant or sinking prices I suspect that it may favour private owners. Many investers I know are getting out of the housing market – not getting into it.
  
  “SOCIETY
  When we had the goal of Elimination, the myth of the Team of 5 million was created and endured. We were one people, with one country, and one leader.
  Now we have no plan, no goal, and have become 5 million teams of 1.”
  
  We do have a plan – and it hasn’t changed; Contain as best possible whilst vaccinations ramp up (check) – then moderate actions to allow hospitals to cope (in progress).
  
  “Some no longer care about the future.”
  
  For sure – it’s tough on all of us.
  
  “Many are seething, angry that all the sacrifices we have made are in vain.”
  
  They’re not “in vain”; they limited the spread whilst the vaccination program deployed. The only “vain” bit is the bit where 10% refuse to do the sensible thing and get vaccinated.
  
  “Protests are commonplace.”
  
  Nothing new there. A complete waste of time too I might add.
  
  “As are gang related crimes.”
  
  Nothing new there either.
  
  ” This will worsen.”
  
  Possibly.
  
  “GOVERNMENT
  It has become apparent to all but the blindest that our government is lead by a populist sociopath. Each and every decision now being taken is driven by her need to liked. The good of the people has been discarded and rots on the scrapheap. Her inability to confront and deal with those who disagree has been laid bare, and she hides away.
  Any vain and fragile person, when faced with dislike and distrust, will run to a safe place. She will, I believe, resign before Easter, and then god have mercy on us, as the weak is replaced with the truly incompetent, at a time when only the strongest and most able would be capable of leading us out of the mire in which we will wallow.
  When I came to New Zealand 20 years ago it was a happy, prosperous and united country. I hardly recognise it any more.”
  
  What a load of baloney. They contained the virus (aided by our geology) – supported the people/economy whilst the containment phase was active – got a vaccination program rolling. All things that were objectively good for the country. What would help tremendously is if the last 10% of the country would stop being so selfish & pig-ignorant and get themselves vaccinated. Period. They’re the ones letting everybody down – not the government. There are MANY of them here.
  
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  November 19, 2021 6:05pm
Warren

Jacinda Ardern our Prime Minister was yet again forced to cancel a visit to a Covid – 19 Clinic on Thursday after a small group of anti vaxxers railroaded her plans to encourage the vaccine drive in Gisborne.
But Newshub can reveal incentives might be the ticket to reaching 90% of the eligible population sooner, according to the latest hesitancy research.
The research shows 24% said $100 cash would sway them, 21% were into $100 voucher while 12% said a smart phone would be convincing , Personally, I like to incentivize, so giving people food vouchers , giving people petrol vouchers vouchers, says Tui Warmenhoven a
director of the board of Te Runanganui O Ngati Porou.
The survey found that while it wouldn’t have a massive impact overall on
vaccination numbers, incentives the unsures and those who are unlikely.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/11/protesters-in-gisborne-force-jacinda-ardern-to-cancel-another-vaccine-clinic-visit-research-shows-incentives-could-be-key.html
Fuck these people being paid by this caring and kind Government obviously love using and giving away taxpayers money to further their careers have no bounds and Jacinda Ardern our Prime Ministers money tree just keeps giving.
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November 19, 2021 8:00am
- David Garrett
  
  Warren: Yes…and to demonstrate why the Waitangi Tribunal ought to be done away with forthwith, it has just agreed to hear an urgent application from the Maori Council which claims that the gummint is not doing enough to protect Maori from the virus.
  
  They have already offered fish n chips, KFC and vouchers; what exactly are they supposed to do: lay on a limo for each unvaccinated obese Maori to take them to and from their appointment?
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:40am
  - RiP NZ
    
    Ironically – babying Maori and throwing 1B in ‘targeted’ funding is the ultimate form of racism.
    
    Arent Maori the incarnation on Earth of God Himself? – aren’t they they protectors and guardians of all things good and great?
    
    Yet they need their hands held like toddlers in order to look after themselves and maybe, just maybe take some responsibility.
    
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    November 19, 2021 9:03am
  - Im Right
    
    David, you forgot the millions ‘don ated’ to various Maori agencies to actually get the Maori vaccination numbers up, should the govt ask for it back? (That question is rheorical of course)
    
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    November 19, 2021 9:36am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    This is a massive opportunity for the Tribunal to regain some credibility and trust from the majority, by concluding that the Government for its part has done all that could be expected and more in this matter, anybody who isn’t vaccinated by now has made the choice to which they are entitled and adverse consequences are on them.
    
    Bet they don’t take it.
    
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    November 19, 2021 9:41am
    - David Garrett
      
      Albert: Quite so…I will be astounded – in the best sense – if the Tribunal made a finding such as you suggest…sadly I think pigs are more likely to fly.
      
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      November 19, 2021 11:40am
  - Nickc2
    
    Show me the passage in the ToW that categorically states Maori must be afforded health care that is superior to other citizens.
    For the enlightenment of members of the Maori Council, you and your lot are in receipt of the same Covid countermeasures as the rest of us.
    Get over your imagined mistreatment and start playing your part in our Free and Democratic Society. God knows, you have plenty to offer.
    We R 1 FFS
    
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    November 19, 2021 9:46am
  - OTGO
    
    yep, always with the hand outs. Even for something that supposedly benefits the whole country and is free to begin with.
    
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    November 19, 2021 10:52am
  - Alan1930
    
    “They have already offered fish n chips, KFC and vouchers; what exactly are they supposed to do: lay on a limo for each unvaccinated obese Maori to take them to and from their appointment?”
    
    Personally, I’d like to see all unvaccinated groups incentivised by a good swift kick up the arse, but the bottom line is that per capita, Maori have a COVID-19 infection rate that’s approx 8 times that those of european descent (with PI not being far behind) (8.57x & 7.5x as of a couple of days ago); like it or not, the cost of treating them in hospital is going to cost one hell of a lot more than the incentive – thus economically it makes sense to just do it.
    
    We’re in this mess to the tune of over $100B; a few more million for incentives isn’t going to make any difference. It’s time to be pragmatic about it.
    
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    November 19, 2021 6:13pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  My price for the current vaccination remains unchanged at $100K. There is too much risk and uncertainty attached to not expect a high premium.
  
  CPR puts it succinctly; he has the nous, academic standing and political experience to make well reasoned judgements. I sense Paul reluctantly becoming more concerned over time–
  https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2021/11/18/the-covid-protocol-is-a-conspiracy-against-human-health/
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:56am
  - bronny1
    
    You’re cheap. I’d consider if for a million. But I think still a no from me.
    
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    November 19, 2021 4:15pm
- Nickc2
  
  Well said Warren.
  
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  November 19, 2021 9:02am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Why the hell should they be given a smart phone…they would probably want the latest Iphone too! IMO they shouldn’t even receive a voucher. If they do not want the jab, then don’t get it.
  
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  November 19, 2021 11:04am
- Leofric
  
  I’m double-vaxxed, dammit. I should have waited for a cash incentive.
  
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  November 19, 2021 5:31pm
Vory v zakone

[deleted for misinformation and unsubstantiated claims – Mods and DPF]
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November 19, 2021 8:00am
- Vory v zakone
  
  So quoting articles from the New York Times, the ‘Newspaper of Record’ is now considered unsubstantiated claims and misinformation? FTW?
  
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  November 19, 2021 1:46pm
  - Alan1930
    
    Given that 90%+ of posts here contain misinformation & unsubstantiated claims it does seem a bit odd.
    
    I was of the opinion that misinformation & unsubstantiated claims were almost a prerequisite for posting here.
    
    Just try to get more Labour-bashing into your post and you should be good to go; the natives love that kind of stuff.
    
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    November 19, 2021 5:32pm
Captain Mainwaring

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/127005526/mongrel-mob-man-killed-for-being-in-wrong-part-of-whanganui

OK, is it now time to divide our country into two? Those who want to live by tribal rules, along with most of the Labour Party who support this anarchy, can live in Aotearoa.
The rest of us, the civilised people, can live in New Zealand.
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November 19, 2021 8:01am
- Frank the tank
  
  Didn’t you hear the ‘agreement’ woke Coster has made with Harawira. The roadblocks will be up.
  
  Hope nobody has booked a holiday in Cable Bay this summer…………
  
  New Zimbabwe – what a gem of a country.
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:03am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Is this a clear breach of Mr Plods’ Oath of Office? A sackable offense?
    Why should any Harawira (long standing troublemakers) be able to prevent me going to the Far North?
    
    Warning: wait till Nanaia Mahuta gains further power.
    
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    November 19, 2021 9:02am
    - Prince
      
      Saw Maiki Sherman’s adulatory report on Mahuta’s visit to Expo 2020 on State News last night. Sherman seems to regard her role as promoting Maori MP’s to the country.
      
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      November 19, 2021 9:41am
      - Paulus
        
        Well what else is Sherman there to do but promote Maori ?
        Looking for a good post in the Mahuta Government.
        
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        November 19, 2021 1:23pm
      - Frank the tank
        
        I’m sure she was well received by Arab businessmen.
        
        Could you imagine Narnia meeting with a delegation of Sheiks and high powered businessmen from the gulf states…………
        
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        November 19, 2021 1:50pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Methinks Maiki’s after a high position on the list of Labour MPs come the next election.
        
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        November 19, 2021 2:04pm
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      The Police Commissioner has no such power to make an agreement with private individuals wherein the latter are allowed to break the law.
      
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      November 19, 2021 11:30am
- surfing
  
  Gangs are out of control. They are blatantly more powerful than the police. Numbers are huge.
  
  Never seen this country overruled by gangs like it is today .. .. Gangs make their presence keenly felt in Mt Maunganui by riding past cafe’s in numbers and revving their bikes loudly.
  
  Rarely see a cop , but see gang members fairly often.
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:03am
  - riffer
    
    OMG what a load of unsubstantiated crap.
    
    Go find some cloud to shout at. As if the country is ruled by a few gangs. Sheesh.
    
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    November 19, 2021 12:15pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Splitter!
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:05am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    ?
    
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    November 19, 2021 10:48am
    - Tom Hunter
      
      People’s Front of Judea – not those other fuckers, the Judean People’s Front.
      
      Also ahead of their time on the next scene
      
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      November 19, 2021 12:23pm
- pdm
  
  Capt. Perhaps they could rename the Auckland Islands Aotearoa and all move there.
  
  Take the Green Party with them as well.
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:09am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    What a bloody good idea.
    
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    November 19, 2021 8:40am
  - bronny1
    
    The species down there will be extinct in no time
    
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    November 19, 2021 4:18pm
- Northshoredoc
  
  Apparently Captain it is quite acceptable to have draconian laws to control the general population but these laws don’t apply to the likes of the gangs due to colonisation and racism.
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:16am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Welcome to another day of lockdown Tyranny.
  
  Sorry I don’t read stuff. I don’t think it is a good use of my time.
  
  “OK, is it now time to divide our country into two?”
  
  Maybe you have not been keeping up with current events, but our society is braking up into groups, divide and conquer.
  
  An authoritarian tyrannical Government rules by fear, that is just how it is done, they have to have an internal enemy usually a minority.
  
  Vaxed v Unvaxed
  Old v Young
  Maori v Everyone else
  Rich v Poor
  North v South
  
  It doesn’t matter who, as long as you can exploit it.
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:24am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Multiple tiers of society?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZct-itCwPE
    Those accepted get to live in mines?
    Leading to
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx-UAQhI0JM
    
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    November 19, 2021 3:12pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I grew up in Castlecliff… There were no Mongrel Mob or BlackPower gangs there in the 1960s and 1970s.
  
  I really can’t see any reason why the Black Power boys shouldn’t bugger off back to Wellington and the Mobsters return to Hastings.
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:38am
  - Paulus
    
    Wanganui was a great small town until they upgraded the Prison then the whanau followed.
    
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    November 19, 2021 10:28am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      The new prison at Kaitoke was opened around 1978. That definitely had an effect on Whanganui, as did the progressive closure of Lake Alice Hospital, and the discharge of mentally ill patients into the community, without sufficient resources to support them.
      
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      November 19, 2021 11:42am
artemisia

Kainga Ora evictions. The truth and the weasel words are emerging. The former from the courts, the latter from Minister Poto Williams.

The truth is that there IS a no-eviction policy at KO, and the big boss has confirmed it. Had to really as it was called out by Nicola Willis in the House yesterday, by referring to Tenancy Tribunal decisions where the KO staffer giving evidence said it was so. (Decisions 4223461 and 4222149).

Kāinga Ora boss Andrew McKenzie doubles down on no evictions policy

Weasel words from Minister Poto Williams. First, when asked what steps she has taken to address the no-evictions policy, as recommended by the Tenancy Tribunal, she sidestepped and said she did not know of the case(s) concerned. No word on the policy, and that was the question. Maybe she is not aware of the policy as the TT cases are only a couple of years old.

Of course she is aware of the policy, because she goes on to say in the House and elsewhere that she is happy to split hairs as strictly legally an eviction requires a court order and actual bailiffs to turn up. While that is legally correct, once again she is deflecting on purpose and does not seem to be on top of her Ministerial responsibilities. Some would not be surprised.

This issue is not going away. Lot of angry neighbours out there.

Litigation expert Adina Thorn says she’s been inundated with victims’ horror stories and says the Government has a duty to act.A Herald investigation has revealed dozens of cases where tenants or private homeowners say they’ve suffered prolonged harassment and abuse from Kāinga Ora clients.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/kainga-ora-boss-andrew-mckenzie-doubles-down-on-no-evictions-policy/2W4OEMCNUIKRPG2NQFEH27AENM/
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November 19, 2021 8:04am
- alex Masterley
  
  I would have thought K-O could be sued for the Tort of Nuisance. and possibly under the old rule of Rylands v Fletcher.
  Just need some-one with the coin to do it.
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:57am
- Southern Raider
  
  Truth is only ever found in evidence of actions
  
  No one has been evicted since 2018. That is impossible unless there is a no eviction policy
  
  And yet we have young families in temporary high risk accommodation because Labour wants to protect gang members and thugs from eviction
  
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  November 19, 2021 9:54am
- Thought Criminal
  
  Lots of those angry neighbours voted for this clown show. They get what they deserve.
  
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  November 19, 2021 10:57am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Poto Williams never answered the question she’s utterly hopeless and out of her depth.
  
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  November 19, 2021 11:43am
- surfing
  
  I wonder how much Kāinga Ora policy is guided by “He Puapua”. We are talking maori here, because, generally most non-maori don’t behave like this (some exceptions but fairly rare relative to maori levels of offending).
  
  He Puapua in practice means there is a reluctance to punish maori for bad behaviour because they are victims of land confiscation and being a victim absolves them of responsibility for their present day criminal behaviour.
  
  I recently tried to apply for a lotto grant for a community group that does a lot of good and never received help in the past…. the lotto people said don’t even bother, their focus is on maori affected by covid.
  
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  November 19, 2021 11:43am
- artemisia
  
  The Government insists it doesn’t have a hard-line “no eviction” policy but rather a “sustainable tenancies” policy that has been in place since April 2017.
  
  Nine years of neglect, nothing to do with Minister Poto Williams. The Sustaining Tenancies policy was designed to help state tenants keep their home if some support would change the inevitable. The Labour government extended it to include any tenants. I would think that rent arrears and antisocial behaviour would be relevant factors. Tens of millions tipped in by the taxpayer.
  
  Couple of numbers – participants in the programme:
  
  September 2021 – 1072
  September 2017 – 0, yes zip.
  
  (Link below is official and pretty good actually.)
  
  http://www.hud.govt.nz/research-and-publications/statistics-and-research/the-government-housing-dashboard/
  
  September
  
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  November 19, 2021 12:30pm
mikenmildagain

Happy World Toilet Day!
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November 19, 2021 8:04am
- RalphT
  
  Oh shit! I completely forgot about it.
  
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  November 19, 2021 9:50am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  [contributing nothing but a personal attack, deleted – Mod]
  
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  November 19, 2021 11:34am
- riffer
  
  Eh? It’s my understanding that it’s International Men’s Day, but there doesn’t seem to be much about it anywhere at all.
  
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  November 19, 2021 12:17pm
  - Mike
    
    You can celebrate what’s important to you. Today, I’m staying with the toilet.
    
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    November 19, 2021 7:10pm
David Garrett

Captain: It will all be much better when, instead of being imprisoned for the maximum penalty for their crimes, instead animals like this are released on parole after doing one third.
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November 19, 2021 8:06am
- David Garrett
  
  Fuck! Apologies for the the second and superfluous “instead”
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:15am
  - dime
    
    Im not sure I can accept that apology. Some things are unforgivable 😀
    
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    November 19, 2021 9:41am
Frank the tank

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-how-much-longer-can-this-go-on-in-our-country

Tucker is like the Hosk’ unchained. He’s bloody right though and applies equally in New Zimbabwe
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November 19, 2021 8:06am
Tomtoddy

Who is actually receiving the $120 million of my money used to promote Maori vaccinations?
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November 19, 2021 8:07am
- surfing
  
  Tribal accounts… and there will be no accountability.
  
  Big chief will have control, they will not disclose to members the amount received.This allows them to buy the new tribe BMW or holiday home.
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:10am
  - CJames
    
    They don’t buy Beemers, it is top of the range Ford Rangers with tinted windows. Drive past any tribal trust building and the car park will be full of them.
    
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    November 19, 2021 8:40am
    - sooty
      
      Maybe they get a group discount for buying in bulk?
      
      11 0
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      November 19, 2021 9:06am
    - surfing
      
      One thing I’ve noticed, trying to reverse out of driveways with a large ute parked outside with heavily tinted glass ..you can’t see through the tinted glass to see if there is any traffic . And, they’re big vehicles so you have to hold your breath and reverse out slowly.
      
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      November 19, 2021 11:47am
- Raphael
  
  looking at the pro gang and vaccines PR coming out of the Herald….the gangs again?
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:11am
- Northshoredoc
  
  ‘Who is actually receiving the $120 million of my money used to promote Maori vaccinations?’
  
  Tiki wearing bro’s and honkys who can spot a trough of cash a mile off.
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:18am
  - Clownworld
    
    Wait till the great police reset, when they resign and need to “boost” numbers to cover the stretched police woke force.
    
    Don’t worry cunning plan is ready.
    
    Supply of criminology experts in waiting aka patched members ready to enforce internal borders. New uniforms to unite gangs. Gestapo black suits with red comrade armband incorporating a dog and a fist of kindness.
    
    Perhaps the uniform will have the words
    “We are your kindness. Obey or else!”
    
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    November 19, 2021 1:14pm
- lifesgood
  
  [racial stereotyping, deleted by Mod]
  
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  November 19, 2021 11:57am
gorse

Friend of mine received a package of vintage car parts in the mail from the UK a couple of days ago. It was addressed “New Zealand (Aotearoa).

Even the Brits are using it.
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November 19, 2021 8:08am
- Tom Barker
  
  I don’t bother with the “New Zealand” part of the address anymore, just “Aotearoa.” All my overseas mail arrives fine.
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:57am
  - lifesgood
    
    I don’t believe you.
    
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    November 19, 2021 11:58am
  - Clownworld
    
    Surprised it has changed from MiddleEarth already?
    
    Still I think you will find the real name will soon be New Venezuela.
    
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    November 19, 2021 1:16pm
- Ehlana
  
  I heard on the radio yesterday that the Maori term kaitiakitanga has been added to the Oxford English Dictionary.
  
  It means, “guardianship or management, especially of the natural resources of a place or area; environmental stewardship considered as a duty and responsibility of the inhabitants of an area”.
  
  There is nothing wrong with recognising that Maori have a concept of guardianship of the natural environment. What strikes me as sad is the almost desperate desire of some in the west to adopt such concepts from groups like Maori so as to avoid considering that the same ideas might actually have traditionally existed in their own culture. And, among those still practicing traditional European culture, they still do exist.
  
  Some years ago it was realised that disconnection from their traditional culture, a lack of knowledge and understanding of it, was causing damage to young Maori. Is it possible that the same thing can happen to young Europeans?
  
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  November 19, 2021 9:56am
  - OTGO
    
    They didn’t kaitiakitanga the moa very well then
    
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    November 19, 2021 10:33am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      or the other 60+ species of birds, reptiles and marine mammals that used to inhabit this region – before they were eliminated in the first couple of hundred years of Human settlement.
      
      Subsistence practices, past biodiversity, and anthropogenic impacts revealed by New Zealand-wide ancient DNA survey
      
      https://www.pnas.org/content/115/30/7771
      
      Extinct New Zealand megafauna were not in decline before human colonization
      https://www.pnas.org/content/111/13/4922
      
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      November 19, 2021 1:22pm
      - David Garrett
        
        Maggy: You may know whether this is right…I’m sure I have read that more species became extinct post Maori occupation of this land than post European…is that right? Or am I just revealing my inherent racism and…can’t remember what else I am revealing…
        
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        November 19, 2021 2:15pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Yep,
        that is so…
        https://newzealandecology.org/nzje/1866.pdf
        
        The most extraordinary thing tho’ is the speed at which our Megafauna was eliminated … in less than 150 years , a population of a couple of thousand Polynesians, their rat and dog and their propensity for burning dry forest committed one of the fastest mass extinction events of the Holocene period.
        
        An extremely low-density human population exterminated New Zealand moa
        https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms6436
        
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        November 19, 2021 4:13pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        True – but mega fauna disappears from the local archeological record soon after the arrival of humans. This is true for Australia, Madagascar, North America and South America.
        
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        November 19, 2021 8:04pm
Tony Stuart

“Hey Clint” Smith joins Stuart Nash in lashing out at Groundswell NZ, adding misogyny to the list of accusations:

Clint Smith
@ClintVSmith
·
10h
Remember not to conflate the racist, misogynist extremists in Groundswell with all farmers. That’s what they want you to do.

Groundswell are a small rich elite reacting angrily to threats to their privilege; whether that be environmental standards, Maori rights or women leaders.

Groundswell answers Nash’s allegations, and indirectly those of Smith, with a statement – from a woman!

https://www.facebook.com/GroundswellNZ/videos/509629590090106

I’m definitely joining the Whanganui protest on Sunday, and I’m picking there will be a whole lot more there than for the June protest. It’s time to send the Government a message that “Enough is Enough”.

Whether the Government will listen is another matter, given the vitriol coming from certain MP’s and activists, but they ignore the concerns of rural New Zealanders at their peril.
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November 19, 2021 8:08am
- pdm
  
  Inv – I will be at Hastings even though I have been a Townie for almost 60 years.
  
  Come on townies and city slickers get out and support Groundswell on Sunday. Not only will you be supporting farmers, orchardists etc but you will also be supporting plumbers, electricians and other trades people who are being hammered by this government..
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:15am
  - Nickc2
    
    IMO, this is a Groundswell of opinion against the current Govt to be demonstrated by Joe/Mary Blogs legally, not just those who work the land.
    Personally, I don’t give a continental what Nash and his dyed-in-the-wool Socialist Cohorts do or say in order to spin this protest against popular opinion, those people demonstrating are just the tip of the berg as they say and are entitled to their beliefs (albeit currently).
    
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    November 19, 2021 1:22pm
- CJames
  
  I hope Nash’s comments in Parliament come back to haunt him. They would make a good billboard on the roads into Napier, reminding people who their MP really represents.
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:16am
  - igm
    
    We all know what Nash thinks of rural people, showing this with his useless and repressive gun laws. Best he stay in suburban Napier, he will not get a good reception in the country where he is on a similar footing to Ardern.
    
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    November 19, 2021 8:23am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Indeed. Let’s not forget that the Napier electorate extends all the way to Wairoa, so it has a significant rural component.
      
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      November 19, 2021 8:46am
      - jon
        
        Hopefully that rural component is enough to tip motor mouth Nash out of the Napier seat in 2023.
        
        19 0
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        November 19, 2021 9:05am
  - pdm
    
    Nash is already and always has been unpopular in Napier but wins the electorate because it is historically a Labour stronghold – a dead donkey’s donger would win it for Labour most elections.
    
    Only when National puts up an iconic Hawkes Bay name like Tremain do they stand a chance and even then it is a close contest despite the difference in qulality of the candidates.
    
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    November 19, 2021 8:28am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Any lip stick on that donkeys donger?
      
      Asking for a friend . . .
      
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      November 19, 2021 9:44am
- Frank the tank
  
  Clint Smith is a wokeborg general. He’s also probably on Brenda’s wedding guest list. Pay him no attention.
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:16am
- Northshoredoc
  
  [deleted, personal abuse and unsubstantiated claim – Mod]
  
  12 3
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  November 19, 2021 8:19am
- Simon
  
  Groundswell only works if National stays the fuck away.
  
  8 25
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  November 19, 2021 8:21am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Nonsense. All National and many Act MP’s attended the previous protests in June, and were well received. If anyone should stay away, it’s Labour and Green MP’s.
    
    48 3
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    November 19, 2021 8:50am
- CJames
  
  I notice Newshub is already running interference for the Minister, dragging up incidents to “prove” Groundswell is full of racist antivaxxers. $55M well spent.
  
  60 1
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  November 19, 2021 8:22am
  - Raphael
    
    Given the current mood of the country there will be a fair number of people from various camps joining the protests.
    
    So there will be some racists (of all skin tones) there.*
    There will be some anti-vaxxers.
    
    Contrary to what the paid for News Stories will be claiming that doesn’t mean they’re all racists anti-vaxxers.
    
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    November 19, 2021 8:27am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Groundswell NZ has published its Code of Conduct, which includes approved slogans for signs/placards.
      
      https://www.motherofallprotests.nz/code-of-conduct
      
      32 2
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      November 19, 2021 8:54am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Be nice if they all showed their displeasure towards the media covering it.
        Call then fake news to their faces
        
        30 3
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        November 19, 2021 8:59am
      - Batman
        
        AOR if you want an anti-media protest go and start one.
        
        People bringing along their pet peeve is movements like Groundswell get contaminated with fringe ideas that opponents can easily pick out and dismiss the whole thing with.
        
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        November 19, 2021 9:48am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Oh Batty you naïve child.
        I’m sure the Groundswell people see the Media as part of the problem
        Now, go and do some work
        
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        November 19, 2021 9:58am
  - Lance
    
    I noticed last week that the MSM were implying that because some had banners had swastikas on them (meaning they think the gummit is using Nazi level oppression) was actually meaning the protesters were pro-Nazi.
    The MSM are filth.
    
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    November 19, 2021 10:59am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Nash is a clown.
  
  He is looking old and tired, like his PM.
  
  The only thing that will save him is a high list placing.
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:30am
  - pdm
    
    Mr B – It is hard to beat a Labour candidate in the Napier electorate – even one as unpopular and incompetent as Nash.
    
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    November 19, 2021 9:06am
    - lifesgood
      
      What is wrong with Napier? Is there a collective stupidity there.?
      
      12 0
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      November 19, 2021 12:01pm
      - pdm
        
        Always has been a Labour stronghold.
        
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        November 19, 2021 7:43pm
- emmess
  
  Thank you Minister Nash for publicising the protests
  
  15000 in Auckland last time
  Let’s go for 50000 this time
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:44am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Go Tony!
  I’m a bit old for physical activism but my heart is in it.
  National have to retake back NZ.
  
  28 1
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  November 19, 2021 9:09am
- Chuck Bird
  
  I will be going to the Hamilton event which is at the Base. I am waiting for more details. Is anyone else interested in the Hamilton event.
  
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  November 19, 2021 1:36pm
Frank the tank

Notice how we the feckless are silent on how Kungflu ended up in Palmy, the Mount and back in the garden city……..

What is the likelihood these are all linked to the gang tangi in Masterton. My bet is St Ash is quiet as a church mouse about the genome sequencing of these cases.
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November 19, 2021 8:10am
- Tony Stuart
  
  It wasn’t a tangi; it was reportedly a Killer Beez patching ceremony.
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:31am
  - igm
    
    Did these social misfits receive taxpayers’ “koha” from McNulty? They are, after all, his people!
    
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    November 19, 2021 8:41am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      I’m not sure if the KB’s have yet worked out that they can make money getting people off P, although it won’t be as much money as they make from selling P.
      
      26 1
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      November 19, 2021 8:55am
      - info@cruzpro.com
        
        You can make more if you do both.
        
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        November 19, 2021 12:50pm
Reid

Archbishop Vigano Appeals for a Worldwide Anti-Globalist Alliance

IMO this man should be occupying the vatican,

He’s appealing to the 30% of us who know what’s going on. We know what to do. How about the 40% of us who aren’t yet on our page?

https://rumble.com/vpelhb-breaking-exclusive-archbishop-vigano-appeals-for-a-worldwide-anti-globalist.html
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November 19, 2021 8:12am
- Albert_Ross
  
  A worldwide anti-globalist alliance?
  
  Really?
  
  Will it be like the Flat Earth Society, which famously claimed to have members all around the globe?
  
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  November 19, 2021 10:05am
- Don Beckett
  
  ” this man should be occupying the vatican,”
  
  Agreed. He is very capable & understands global politics. He was the Vatican ambassador to the US & other countries for quite a few years.
  
  9 3
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  November 19, 2021 10:49am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Why don’t you schismatics leave the Catholic Church and join a different sect, or establish your own sect, as countless heretics have before? Wouldn’t you be happier that way?
    
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    November 19, 2021 11:26am
- Clownworld
  
  The corruption in the Catholic church is well documented. Nek minit Chrislam one world green woke govt church begins. Road to hell paved with “good” intentions…
  
  7 1
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  November 19, 2021 1:24pm
  - Batman
    
    Lol wut? Are you high?
    
    Seriously, chrislam?
    
    Cuckoo for coco pops stuff!
    
    2 7
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    November 19, 2021 1:25pm
I remember when

RNZ: Allowing unvaccinated parents into school events, classes ridiculous:
Do people not see that this argument has no end.
In three, four, five months most of the population will again be considered ‘unvaccinated’ unless they get the booster shot.
Then, as immunity levels become more variable, the ‘science’ becomes more difficult to assess.
Are fourth or fifth shots necessary.
John’s birthday is tomorrow so he can cross the border today but can’t in two days time.
Or, do parents change his age by perhaps a year – how will police at the border know.
Of course, we could introduce an ‘identity card.’
That doesn’t sound too draconian.
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November 19, 2021 8:16am
Simon

Labo so garbage even National trying to distant themselves from them in parts. But in the main the Labo / National axis of stupidity is a firm partnership. At the core of this stupidity is they are both happy for people to lose their jobs over such a chicken shit vaxx. Happy to organize society around this vaxx.

This chicken shit vaxx will go the same way as Zero Covid. National are part of the problem despite their little complaints.
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November 19, 2021 8:19am
Tomtoddy

Nash is a light weight, boorish bully.
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November 19, 2021 8:21am
- pdm
  
  Tom – you characterised him so succinctly and so well.
  
  An unlikable man.
  
  36 1
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  November 19, 2021 8:32am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Obviously his preferred hair dye has been affected by global supply issues, and is still on back-order 😀
    
    36 1
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    November 19, 2021 8:57am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Nash almost always opens with ‘can I say just one thing here Mike . . . ‘ just to gain the floor, he is a fing boor and it in never just one thing.
  
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  November 19, 2021 9:49am
Truman lodge

Why are iwi checkpoints allowed?

Can a group of non Maori locals in coromandel set up community checkpoints too? Or would the police brutally remove them and chuck them in paddy wagons?
47 2
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November 19, 2021 8:25am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Iwi checkpoints are allowed because the legislation says so…
  
  This bill passed its 3rd reading Yesterday…and will be Law.
  
  Here’s the relevant section:
  https://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2021/0068/latest/LMS552333.html
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:47am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    National and Act both strongly opposed the legislation yesterday at Third Reading. Here’s an extract from Chris Bishop’s speech in the Third Reading debate:
    
    CHRIS BISHOP (National): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. The National Party opposes this bill wholeheartedly. I want to start with a comment made to me by a bar owner in Auckland on Sunday, because I think it summarises accurately the feeling of a lot of people who live in Auckland right now. She said to me, “It feels like we’re collateral damage in the Prime Minister’s personal legacy project.”—it feels like we’re collateral damage in Jacinda Ardern’s personal legacy project.
    
    Because that’s the situation Aucklanders find themselves in right now. Stuck in the Auckland prison—90 days and counting—and still no clarity as to when they can leave. Still no clarity as to when they can go and have a beer outside in a hospitality venue with their friends over Christmas. People who work in hospitality, in fact, people who work in many businesses across Auckland—and, in fact, it’s not just Auckland; it’s Canterbury and other parts of the country—look at our Government and they say, “Yup, they did pretty well last year, actually. But now we find ourselves miles behind the rest of the world and we are the damage. We are the collateral damage. We’re the people mortgaging our houses, selling our cars, dipping into our personal savings, putting money on the credit card—just to keep paying the bills, keep paying the staff that we haven’t laid off yet. Worried about summer. Worried about the start of 2022.” Worried about how they’re going to get through the next week and actually be able to pay the bills. And worried about the tax bill that’s coming, the provisional tax, in Q1 next year.
    
    They don’t want a lot, actually. What they want is hope. What they want is some certainty, and they want a pathway. I’ll tell you what they don’t want: they don’t want continuous platitudes from the podium. Because that’s what they get every week. And they don’t want a Government that clearly is just making it up as they go.
    
    So what did we learn yesterday from the Government? Well, the 90 percent target doesn’t exist anymore. So the thing that was the “pathway to freedom”, to use the Prime Minister’s words three weeks ago, that’s been unceremoniously dumped; no longer the target. Righty-o. Got that. On 29 November, there’ll be another announcement. Actually, yesterday we got “Cabinet will decide”, presupposing that they will, but, you know, I assume that’s the case. On 29 November, we’ll get another announcement about something that will happen later—date unknown—when we all enter the traffic light system. So no idea of the date. No idea of exactly when this will happen. And the traffic light framework will start some time, and Auckland will go to red straight away.
    
    Now, the thing about red is, if you’re a hospitality venue, you can have 100 people seated, even if you’re vaccinated—even if you’re vaccinated. So Auckland will start in red. So is that a step forward? I suppose, in the most marginal sense possible, it’s a step forward. But it’s hardly progress.
    
    In every other place, totally unclear. So, Wellington? Ninety percent double vaccination, probably be higher by the time we roll around to 7 December or whenever it is. Do they enter in green? No idea. Is it orange? No idea? Is it red? I don’t know. What about the Southern DHB? Are they orange? I think they’re 87 percent double dosed—Penny Simmonds tells me I’m broadly right. Double dosed—they’ll be 90 percent double dosed by 5 December. Are they going to enter in green? I don’t know. Is it orange? I’ve got no idea.
    
    https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20211118_20211118_24
    
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    November 19, 2021 9:01am
    - sooty
      
      I just luuve the community patroller!
      So they can put up any gang members on the roadblock.
      The next thing will be a koha tax to enter!
      
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      November 19, 2021 9:20am
  - Truman lodge
    
    Maggy
    
    Wow I’m stunned, this sets us on a dangerous course. I wonder if iwi checkpoints get funding.
    
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    November 19, 2021 9:17am
  - jon
    
    No mention of European wardens in the legislation?
    
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    November 19, 2021 9:25am
  - Ehlana
    
    Thanks for reference Maggy. What I get from that is that “an enforcement officer” acting under the supervision of a constable may stop people or vehicles to enforce or monitor compliance with a COVID-19 order that restricts movement.
    An enforcement officer means an authorised person whom the Commissioner recognises as being a Māori warden, a nominated representative of an iwi organisation, a Pasifika warden, or a community patroller.
    
    I wonder if “under the supervision of a constable” means what I would take it to mean – there must be a sworn police officer there, visible and actively supervising the activity?
    
    Because otherwise how can I be sure that I’m being stopped legally?
    
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    November 19, 2021 10:32am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      This question was asked in Parliament yesterday by Simeon Brown to the Min of Police:
      Simeon Brown: Can the Minister guarantee that all checkpoints run by iwi this summer will have at least one police officer present?
      
      She was evasive in her first reply, so Simeon tried again…
      
      Simeon Brown: Point of order. The question was quite clear in that I was asking about these checkpoints run by iwi—will there also be at least one police officer present? I don’t think she answered that part of the question.
      
      Hon POTO WILLIAMS: Yes.
      
      Oral Q. # 12
      https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20211118_20211118_20
      
      But if you read the legislation , it doesn’t explicitly state that a cop has to be present… just that the roadblock is under the supervision of cops.
      
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      November 19, 2021 11:05am
      - Ehlana
        
        So we’re back to how on earth do you know, as you’re approaching one of these.
        It’s a serious question – I have heard cases of women travelling alone, for example, who pull over in response to an unmarked car with police lights – and the driver of that vehicle is not a police officer.
        
        Will these community wardens be instructed that any vehicle they block on the road has the right to keep the windows up and call the police to verify legitimacy before interacting with them?
        
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        November 19, 2021 11:59am
  - surfing
    
    Ha, so now maori can legally block access to public areas.
    
    This is nuts. And, unreported .
    
    Thought it would be bigger news.
    
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    November 19, 2021 12:10pm
Frank the tank

https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2021/11/17/nolte-rian-johnsons-star-wars-trilogy-not-happening/

Thank God. Imagine three more “the Last Jedi’s”
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November 19, 2021 8:25am
Bridgenag

To find out what is going on in your specific area get in direct contact with the closest coordinator to you

go to https://groundswellnz.co.nz/events/
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November 19, 2021 8:27am
I remember when

Is the fact European countries are looking at the possibility of imposing lockdowns a warning for New Zealand.
Europe is approaching the start of Winter.
New Zealand is in danger of missing much of the benefit of the coming Summer months.
A viewing of the Daily New Deaths graph for Germany on worldometer highlights the difference.
The two periods of low or no deaths are Summer.
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November 19, 2021 8:30am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  NZ is being slowly fed Covid-19 through the country….It will be in all corners ready to go explosive as we enter Autumn and retreat indoors.
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:51am
  - MCōs
    
    So what do you think we should do about it?
    The present plan is to promote vaccination including third doses.
    Alternatively we could hang onto lockdowns, which are becoming increasingly unviable.
    Or.
    We could do neither as the the rowdy anti vaxxers want.
    
    Whatever it is, the government is on a hiding to nothing and if the situation drags on so will the next one because unless big pharma comes up with something better this is going to drag on . . . .
    
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    November 19, 2021 9:21am
    - MCōs
      
      Plenty of downticks, but no discussion.
      
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      November 19, 2021 7:54pm
  - sooty
    
    I bet as soon as Ak is let out the gate, it will explode! What we have at the moment is Aks leaky border spreading it. It’s almost as though there is a back country road not patrolled.
    
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    November 19, 2021 9:25am
- ClanMcleod
  
  And “vaccination” has absolutely zero bearing on cases or deaths. Except probably increasing them. We’ll know in NZ in about 8 months.
  
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  November 19, 2021 10:55am
WaynelSexton

How we know the covid vaccines don’t work
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/christmas-cancelled-in-worlds-most-vaxxed-place-after-exponential-rise-in-covid-cases/ar-AAQQ57t
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November 19, 2021 8:32am
- Batman
  
  From your link: “The Lancet medical journal released figures that showed the Pfizer vaccine effectiveness in preventing hospitalisation and death remained high at 90 percent for at least six months, even against Delta.”
  
  So in other words, they work exactly as we understand them to, based on other news about the efficacy and the need for a booster after a period of time.
  
  In short, they work. Perfect is the enemy of good, as they say.
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:38am
  - Cinematic
    
    So why the lockdown?
    
    29 3
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    November 19, 2021 8:41am
    - RightNow
      
      The decision to lockdown appears to be based on cases rather than deaths.
      But it is evident the vaccines aren’t stopping transmission even in fully vaxxed populations. So NZ can expect exactly the same result, and more draconian lockdowns in our future.
      
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      November 19, 2021 9:38am
    - surfing
      
      I suppose to convince people like you that they should be vaccinated.
      
      5 3
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      November 19, 2021 2:41pm
      - RightNow
        
        Well some people might say nasty things about me, but in my opinion if you’re gonna get locked down even if you’re vaccinated then it ain’t convincing me!
        
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        November 19, 2021 3:30pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yes they work well – at least for 6 months – in preventing serious illness. That is excellent. But they quickly become degraded at preventing infection. Which means that the whole concept of a vaccine certificate to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated is stupid. Yes a booster shot starts the clock again. And I will have one. But we don’t know what happens after that. Are we all going to have booster shots every 6 months? Are we going to vaccinate 5 year olds every six months?
    
    The vaccines do NOT work as they were sold to us 9 months ago. You can find some of my comments here in GD 6 – 9 months ago where I was telling people about herd immunity science. I even claimed that the vaccines would literally end the pandemic.
    
    The difference between me and you know who, is that I read the emerging science every day. And it has changed. So I have changed my views. And all during that period of the changing evidence we were getting told that the virus would be “stamped out like measles”. On the day of the “stamp it out claim” by you know who, I said that was idiotic. And here we are . When was the last time she made that claim?
    
    So I suggest you are being too glib in saying that the vaccines work as advertised.
    
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    November 19, 2021 9:00am
    - Batman
      
      Benedict if you want things to never change and initial predictions to remain in place, I have some bad news for you about life in general my friend!
      
      The good news is that the benefits of a single booster are being vastly undersold. The booster delivers what the initial two doses didn’t, ongoing immunity
      
      https://twitter.com/PaulMainwood/status/1461374201474998275?t=RRI72qDvZbJP_A3aOq9ROw&s=19
      
      It would have been great to get a magical single shot vaccine that met the unrealistic expectations of the critics but we’ve got what we’ve got and thankfully humans are smart enough to make it work!
      
      Those who aren’t, will take their chances.
      
      As an aside, I just learnt about a new side effect of covid last night, Parosmia, which makes food taste rotten or bitter.
      
      Truly, fuck that, I would far rather take the tiny chance of the vaccine giving me a temporarily droopy face (it didn’t, I was perfectly fine) than have all my food and drink taste like arse!
      
      https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-55824567
      
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      December 19, 2020 9:57am
      - RightNow
        
        It must be sad to have to pin your hopes on the first thing that was made available rather than trusting your own immune system
        
        16 2
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        November 19, 2021 10:00am
      - All_on_Red
        
        We’ll take your word for it that you know what arse tastes like.
        Lol
        
        18 6
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        November 19, 2021 10:13am
      - Nickc2
        
        Not knowing what arse tastes like or even wanting to, please enlighten. If you mean Rump as in Steak, please say so.
        
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        November 19, 2021 10:19am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Seriously?
        
        You don’t need to explain to me the effects of the boosters. I am aware.
        
        But you do not know that the boosters deliver “ongoing immunity”. You just don’t know that. If the “immunity” is still strong in 12 months or 24 months I’ll pay attention.
        
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        November 19, 2021 10:43am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @ Benedict Yu,
        
        Exactly..
        We have no idea what the effect of boosters will be .
        
        I note that Israel is buying in supplies for a FOURTH round of Pfizer vaccinations…
        
        https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-12/israel-preparing-for-possible-fourth-covid-vaccine-dose
        
        I think the Pfizerjab is a fizzer…
        
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        November 19, 2021 10:52am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        “Look, it’s ok, I know they were wrong the other 7 times but this time it’s different!!”
        At what number untested booster shot will you start to ask the obvious and pertinent questions????
        
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        November 19, 2021 11:01am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        This is one of the best data analysts I have read over the last 18 months. They support all assertions with evidence that is as good as any available out there.
        They believe:
        
        “Booster Doses are Extremely Dangerous and They Will Make Everything Worse – Additional vaccinations will drive infections up, not down.”
        
        https://eugyppius.substack.com/p/booster-doses-are-extremely-dangerous
        
        Feel free to read and rebut with supporting evidence. “Bollocks!” doesn’t count as a rebuttal.
        
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        November 19, 2021 11:09am
    - MCōs
      
      That’s why the vaccine certificate expires after six months and a third dose is required.
      Now maybe you only got the first two so you could go to the pub, I don’t know.
      Personally I’ll get the third dose the maintain the protection.
      If that’s too hard for some people to do, that’s up to them, just don’t complain about other people who haven’t got round to getting the first two doses.
      
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      November 19, 2021 9:38am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Good stuff, I admire your trust in Medsafe and Pfizer.
        Incidentally, can you point me to the safety data and risk/benefit analysis on the first booster? Also let me know where the trials are happening for subsequent boosters? Cheers. I’ll wait.
        
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        November 19, 2021 11:59am
      - MCōs
        
        The other day you said covid-19 was a hoax so it follows there’s no solution.
        
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        November 19, 2021 7:57pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yep, and the highly vaxxed Ireland is coming under new restrictions as Covid-19 begins another surge..
  
  https://www.9news.com.au/national/ireland-coronavirus-update-new-restrictions-on-pubs-as-cases-rise/9412dbc4-153e-473a-ac99-b564a2be4390
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:56am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    I sometimes despair of people who don’t understand by now that they have been lied to from the very beginning of this circus. I could see why in the first 6 months, possibly even up to the middle of this year, but anyone who isn’t at the very least suspicious by now just isn’t paying attention. Either that or they are so terrified of the truth that they will willfully stick their fingers in their ears and sing “la la la la la!” very loudly and hope the unicorns and fairy dust come back when they open their eyes.
    
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    November 19, 2021 11:04am
- RightNow
  
  Well they can’t blame it on the unvaxxed in Gibraltar!
  
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  November 19, 2021 9:42am
- solarsailer
  
  Every rule around reopening seems based on an unrealistic view of vaccine performance. You still catch it and spread it (okay, less likely but only for a small period of time), so how does that help? In fact what have MIQs, Lockdowns, Elimination, Modelling, Traffic Light systems, 90% Targets, Mandates, Passports, etc. really done other than burn money?
  
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  November 19, 2021 10:10am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    In fact what have MIQs, Lockdowns, Elimination, Modelling, Traffic Light systems, 90% Targets, Mandates, Passports, etc. really done other than burn money?
    
    They have delayed the inevitable,
    They have led folks into a state of false security,
    They have provided cover for the Labour Party to run the country into a 3rd-World dependency.
    
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    November 19, 2021 1:34pm
Cinematic

Had my second shot of the witches brew yesterday.

It’s basically useless isn’t it? But for convenience I partook 6 weeks or so after the first.

Anyway, anytime someone wants to tell you the vaccine will set you feel free to laugh uproariously in their face.

NZ will be in lockdown again in early 2022.
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November 19, 2021 8:40am
- westernScientest
  
  my old man is convinced its just saline
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:57am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I want to spin out the length between my 2 shots as that seems to convey the strongest immune response, but if Hubby and I get our 2nd shots before Dec 12, we’re in the running for a new double-cab ute ( Nissan Navara Pro 4X).
  
  https://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/local-news/20211113/stand-together-tairawhiti/
  
  Decisions, decisions….
  
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  November 19, 2021 9:18am
  - Batman
    
    Take the ute!
    
    The booster will take care of the immunity side of things…
    
    https://twitter.com/PaulMainwood/status/1461374201474998275?t=DBKfIxlBG4kbzcq6gwIyOA&s=19
    
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    November 19, 2021 9:59am
  - Ehlana
    
    I’d go for the ute Maggy. If you have your next shot in Dec, you’ll be up for the booster in June & should have maxim immunity over the winter.
    
    And hopefully, a nice new grunty ute to keep you warm…
    
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    November 19, 2021 10:52am
  - Nickc2
    
    Hasn’t Cindy banned all new Utes unless they are EVs?
    Oh, that’s right that edict hasn’t kicked in yet, her love interest has an Internal Combustion Engine Ute.
    
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    November 19, 2021 1:41pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  I reckon winter time…the traditional cold and flu season will possibly be another lockdown.
  
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  November 19, 2021 11:57am
- Spring Bank Westie
  
  I have had both doses and didn’t have any adverse effects to either.
  
  I think I got the placebo.
  
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  November 19, 2021 3:14pm
yossarian

Karl knocks it out of the park again…if journalists are now worrying about their safety, why don’t they ask themselves why?

http://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2021/11/no-one-should-be-surprised-by-backlash.html?m=1
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November 19, 2021 8:43am
- graham
  
  Excellent article, thanks for posting yossarian
  
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  November 19, 2021 11:51am
- Aquataur
  
  Yep – well worth a read
  
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  November 19, 2021 4:50pm
I remember when

I wonder how many people even know this Health and Safety rule exists.
The schools and ECE facilities must have ‘brand’ specific written permission, from parents/care givers, before they can apply sunscreen.
Not an instruction detailing any brand that can’t be used – they can provide their own.
So teachers/educators not only have their usual duties, they must also maintain vigilance too ensure they have enough of the ‘right’ sunscreen.
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November 19, 2021 8:45am
Truman lodge

Imagine if Jacinda passes a law banning critisism of her and the govt. Making it a jail offence.

Simon Dellow, we now head to Wellington to JMM who is at the beehive.. Jessica what’s been the reaction.

Well Simon the govt is hoping the bill will unite kiwis and give us a unifying goal of stamping out covid and developing a plan going forward to get the economy moving. Whether it works we will have to wait and see.. SIMON back to you.
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November 19, 2021 8:46am
Jack5

In State-subsidised Stuff, Waikato law professor Alexander Gillespie writes an opinion article that includes:

As the Royal Commission on the Christchurch terror attacks noted, the likeliest thing to have prevented the tragedy would have been a “see something, say something” culture – one where people could safely raise their concerns with the appropriate authorities.

AND

…it also requires that people be prepared to report acts of suspicious activity or threats of violence (online or not).

Isn’t a a “see something, say something” culture what they had in Communist East Germany, the Soviet Union, and in Nazi Germany?

Everyone spying on everyone-else?

Why doesn’t Gillespie spell out the limits of what he advocates – and the targets?

Obviously, he wouldn’t include climate doomsters, Greenies, Maori activists, peaceniks, trade unionists. The heading on the article mentions Covid, but the target seems wider than these protesters.

Surely, a law teacher isn’t promoting authoritarianism? Spell it out, Mr Gillespie.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/456039/risks-of-increasing-covid-19-disinformation-extremism-in-new-zealand
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November 19, 2021 8:46am
Yvette

Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson fears COVID-19 vaccination certificate spot checks will unfairly target Māori.
• Davidson is worried those spot checks will disproportionately affect Māori. The latest Ministry of Health data shows just 62 percent of Māori are fully vaccinated, compared to 82 percent of the entire eligible population.
“History has already shown that profiling continues to be an issue across many of our systems. Also the systematic racism we have seen in the very health system has already shown us that we need to be asking real questions about ensuring this does not happen in this case as well,” Davidson told reporters.

• Māori Development Minister Willie Jackson said on Thursday the Government had approved $46.75 million and signed 26 contracts to rapidly accelerate [target] Māori vaccinations across the country.

• The Whānau Ora Commissioning Agency, contracted to fund and support initiatives that deliver for Māori, has been fighting in court to get more data from the Ministry of Health to help target those Māori who are yet to be vaccinated.

All quotes are in the same article – but how many are “on the same page”? –

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/11/greens-co-leader-marama-davidson-fears-covid-19-vaccine-pass-spot-checks-will-target-m-ori.html

It is just reported that Bloomfield now agrees to some data-sharing with Northland iwi, so behind the other ethnicities making up New Zealand’s population, are some Maori in being vaccinated. As well as Government spending millions in taxpayer funding to TARGET Maori, the Police, if with limited staff and a time factor in checking vaccine passport, are operationally duty-bound mandated community protection to look at, TARGET, those that all media reports indicate are most likely to be unvaccinated.

Davidson says it is racism, but it can be argued that it is a vital element of the “protection” promised in Article 3 of the Treaty of Waitangi.

Daily rant before medication or coffee :o) Without either, I feel better already
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November 19, 2021 8:48am
Benedict Yu

I read this and shake my head in amazement. This guy says that he can’t evict state housing tenants under any circumstances. So if the tenants know that how will they behave?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/kainga-ora-boss-andrew-mckenzie-doubles-down-on-no-evictions-policy/2W4OEMCNUIKRPG2NQFEH27AENM/&ved=2ahUKEwi464GX16L0AhUY4zgGHVaHDekQ0PADKAB6BAgHEAE&usg=AOvVaw3pcwDQj_tdp4aZgK6FCNpA
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November 19, 2021 8:51am
- Inandout
  
  BY, how many MPs live next door to KO tenants? You see we taxpayers compensate our elected members handsomely and our List ones very well, so they can pick and choose areas well away from government housing. As a result they also tend to escape the full effects of street crime. IMO politicians are by and large arseholes so unless personally affected they just tend to walk on by.
  
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  November 19, 2021 9:35am
- surfing
  
  Andrew Mckenzie needs to be forced to live next door to some of his ratbags.
  
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  November 19, 2021 2:36pm
solarsailer

The worst part about releasing Auckland will be the endless stream of mediocre celebrities telling us they’ve got Covid and the mere fact they survived is because of the vaccine.
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November 19, 2021 8:53am
Maggy Wassilieff

Now why would anyone trust anything coming from the podium?

The Min of Health has been playing silly buggers with open, transparent information since the pandemic started.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/11/ministry-of-health-apologises-to-newshub-for-17-month-delay-over-oia-request-failure-to-comply-with-law.html
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November 19, 2021 9:00am
Benedict Yu

This guy should of course be ignored.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/11/covid-19-hone-harawira-calls-for-hard-border-to-protect-northland-as-region-battles-to-boost-vaccination-rates-slams-spot-checks-as-pointless.html

But what happens if these guys try to block SH1 north of Auckland, demanding to see everyone’s vaccination passport? Will the police arrest them? I would be quite upset if I was stopped by a civilian demanding that I do anything, or provide any information. What happens if I drive through? Do they phone ahead to the gangs down the road with my car licence plate number?

What gets me is that there is now push back NOW. The police should issue a statement saying that anyone who blocks the flow of traffic on our roads will be arrested. Immediately. Why don’t they do that?

I know what would happen if a gang blocked a road in Taiwan. A bunch of armed police would descend with tear gas and the folk involved would have a couple of years in prison to think about it. 🙂
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November 19, 2021 9:17am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  See my comment above.
  
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/11/general_debate_19_november_2021.html/comment-page-1#comment-3067585
  
  Hone’s roadblocks will be police supervised and PERFECTLY LEGAL.
  
  No good whining now…. This is what your fellow NZers voted for.
  
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  November 19, 2021 9:22am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    That’s what the Aoteamorons voted for.
    
    I voted for sensible government.
    
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    November 19, 2021 9:55am
- Mike22240
  
  The queue going north while they preform over zealous puffed up spot checks will be a mess. Most Aucklanders will only bother going up once after experiencing the shit-show they put together and Northland will experience massive economic damage as a direct result of Hone’s actions.
  
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  November 19, 2021 9:51am
- graham
  
  Hone Harawira is a thug and a bully. He has invariably presented as a quite nasty person.
  
  How on earth anybody can think that allowing Mr Harawira to effectively police the roads, in a situation that will no doubt be extremely tense as people try to go about their legitimate business, is a good idea, is mind-boggling.
  
  I would also point out that Hone Harawira is being exceedingly hypocritical. Remember that in April 2020, Mr Harawira made a trip to Auckland WHILE WE WERE IN LOCKDOWN AT ALERT LEVEL 4, in order to visit a testing centre and pick up medical supplies. He also happened to stop off at his sister’s house in West Auckland for a meal of bacon and eggs. His sister just happens to be a nurse.
  
  Siouxsie Wiles slammed it as completely unsafe, but of course Mr Harawira knows better and said nope, I know what I’m doing and it was fine.
  
  Hone Harawira – it’s fine for him to break the rules and travel wherever he wants, but if anybody else wants to visit their elderly parents or family they haven’t seen for three months then screw you.
  
  What a hypocrite.
  
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  November 19, 2021 9:54am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    I see Hone Harawira has been nominated as a Kiwibank Local Hero. Opinions clearly differ!
    https://nzawards.org.nz/awards/new-zealand-local-hero-year/finalists/?region=13&year=2022&category=8#finalists
    
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    November 19, 2021 8:28pm
- Nickc2
  
  Further evidence that our current PM has sold out to her Maori Caucus. IMO if your Business, Street, Suburb and/or City isn’t given an approved Te Reo name asap, it will be . . . . . . .
  Be aware, Cindy has started the Great South Pacific Reset early!!
  
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  November 19, 2021 12:17pm
graham

ON TVNZ One News last night, I saw the story about Jacinda Ardern being met by protesters in Gisborne. And I see the story is also on Newshub. Both the Newshub story, and the item that I watched on One News last night, refer to these protesters as “anti-vaxxers”.

But here’s the strange thing. Of the placards I saw on the One News item, there were maybe two that were definitely anti-vax. But they were greatly out-numbered by placards that seemed to be simply calling for choice – in other words, they were anti-mandate. Which is NOT the same as anti-vax.

So I wonder – how can the media so confidently report the protesters as being “anti-vax”? Did the reporters interview all the protesters? I didn’t see one protester interviewed on the One News item. From the evidence I saw, the vast majority of protesters would appear to be anti-mandate, NOT anti-vax.

So if the majority of protesters in Gisborne were anti-mandate, but both Newshub and One News report them as being anti-vax – that’s misinformation, surely?
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November 19, 2021 9:26am
- miltonF
  
  I think you’ll find that Marxists have been changing the meaning of words.
  
  A vaccine used to be something that gave you immunity. A vaccine is now something that gives you “protection”.
  
  Anti-vax used to be a person who doesn’t get vaccines themselves, but now it also includes anyone who is against any kind of vaccine mandate.
  
  A racist used to be a person who would judge and treat people differently based on their race. Nowadays a racist is just a white person.
  
  And so on and so on…
  
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  November 19, 2021 12:36pm
ABS4EVA

IF big IF

The Vaccine Mandate was about

HEALTH

We would have the most effective VACCINE

NOVAVAX

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/us-clinical-trial-results-show-novavax-vaccine-safe-prevents-covid-19

Results from a Phase 3 clinical trial enrolling 29,960 adult volunteers in the United States and Mexico show that the investigational vaccine known as NVX-CoV2373 demonstrated 90.4% efficacy in preventing symptomatic COVID-19 disease. The candidate showed 100% protection against moderate and severe disease. In people at high risk of developing complications from COVID-19 (people 65 years or older and people under age 65 with certain comorbidities or with likely regular exposure to COVID-19), the vaccine showed 91.0% efficacy in preventing symptomatic COVID-19 disease.

SERIOUSLY?

The candidate showed 100% protection against moderate and severe disease.

HELLO?
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November 19, 2021 9:29am
burt

Awesome, Go Jacinda – How is reducing child poverty and increasing housing affordability working out?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/127036980/aucklands-median-rent-hits-600-for-the-first-time
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November 19, 2021 9:29am
- Ehlana
  
  burt, would you like another Kool-Aid dear? Have you tried the new strawberry flavour?
  
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  November 19, 2021 10:53am
- ClanMcleod
  
  I believe it’s “let’s go Brenda”, I could be wrong.
  
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  November 19, 2021 12:37pm
- Frank the tank
  
  Let’s go Brenda
  
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  November 19, 2021 2:05pm
Opie

Another one off to the gulag…

https://i.stuff.co.nz/opinion/127018250/is-ardern-abdicating-the-leadership

Cant have someone saying brenda cant make the tough decisions.

Slowly but surely they wake up to the destruction of this country.
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November 19, 2021 9:51am
- ClanMcleod
  
  That’s possibly the first decent opinion piece I have read in NZ mainstream media in a couple of years.
  Bravo. I hope he doesn’t get too long in the gulag. He certainly won’t be going to the wedding.
  
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  November 19, 2021 12:07pm
- Frank the tank
  
  It’s Bishop’s Dad. He’s the furthest right “Stuffed” allows to publish and to be frank reading his stuff he’s usually left of his son.
  
  That said another Wellingtonian that has momentarily stopped drinking the Koolaid of the Kungflu cult. That number now has likely reached low triple figures…..
  
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  November 19, 2021 2:08pm
Southern Raider

Herald promoting extreme modelling cases of 16,000 new cases a day and up to 800 new hospitalisations.

This is purely Labour driven feat porn.

Yes cases will rise but that modelling can’t be justified by any country in the worlds actual statistics

NSW is fully open and has no MIQ and there case numbers continue to drop
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November 19, 2021 9:56am
Southern Raider

Would be helpful for provinces to make it clear who wants Aucklanders money so we know where to travel and feel welcome

Queenstown has made it very clear it’s highly vaccinated and open for business. Others not so much
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November 19, 2021 9:57am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QuseYhPoxc

Brexit Betrayal.

After all that Article 16 hard talk, it’s all gone soft, with talk of a new deal – but will it be a UK sell-out? [8:33]
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November 19, 2021 10:08am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djXYBU1T-Ek

China Tried to Pay me to Lie about Covid.

Seriously, they screwed up and now I have proof that the Chinese Communist Party is paying Youtubers and Influencers to do propaganda. [18:53]
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November 19, 2021 10:09am
Master Mariner

A European International Law site is to publish this very sobering account of NZ Seafarers and the total disdain shown by the NZ Government, It “quite” likely will end up in Wall Street Journal as well as a Myriad of International Maritime Journals/Publications.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ms-vpKolMeUC4mwNHFxpe9uTjfIrqfYt/view

It was never intended for a Government to breach the rights of Seafarers in their response to Covid, With Supply Chains “smashed” and NZ blatent disregard for International Law on its Seafaring domiciled citizens.

If inclined to do so, Then please read in its entirety with Links attached for “sobering” reading.
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November 19, 2021 10:12am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  I would have thought that the NZSU who are great supporters of Labour would have been all over this like a rash
  
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  November 19, 2021 12:23pm
Fletch

I posted this last night but got approved too late to be seen.

I see that Jacinda was in Gisborne and confronted by protesters again. She always refers to people getting “inaccurate information” or “disinformation” but she never says what this supposed disinformation is. It’s enough for her to make this generalized statement and never having to explain herself. It’s a cowardly and dishonest way out. It means never having to engage in debate and be proved right or wrong. It’s more or less saying “what you believe is wrong and that’s all there is”. Well, Jacinda, what if you’re wrong? You just don’t want people to hear concerns from the other side. You’d rather it was just silence. Your view or nothing.
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November 19, 2021 10:25am
Fletch

I don’t agree with everything Ian Wishart posts but people have drawn my attention to his posts on Facebook the last few days and he is on the money with this –

Some of my media colleagues don’t like the criticism… but again I have to call them out for leaving key facts out of covid stories. Late this morning news broke of a “fully vaccinated” person who tested positive in Christchurch after returning from a visit to Auckland. Initially, media reported the case was fully vaccinated. All good.

But by the 6pm news that detail was missing from stories… and curiously missing from the Ministry of Health media release. In fact tonight you will be hard-pressed to find any current news stories discussing the vax status.
Why is it relevant? Because the patient is a mother with three children under the age of 11. It’s highly likely she was fully vaxxed less than three months ago.

This scenario of the vaccine wearing off much quicker than the assumed six months is becoming all too common – I pinged Stuff last week for telling the story of a fully vaxxed Auckland man catching covid but failing to mention WHEN he had been fully vaxxed: JUST SIX WEEKS EARLIER!

A thunderstorm always begins with a few spits of rain… and then suddenly there’s a deluge. I think a covid thunderstorm is coming and many who have been vaxxed are going to get a surprise. […] 1.6 million Aucklanders, with Delta silently infesting them, are about to get their vax passports and be unleashed on all corners of the country… unaware that the vaccines are not going to prevent them catching covid and spreading it – clearly as early as just six weeks after the jab.

National was right. We ARE going to have a covid Christmas after all. […] The bitter irony is that we have just divided the team of five million in the name of promoting a vax passport system that even Blind Freddy can see is going to be a Christmas super spreading disaster… and when school resumes in the new year everyone’s children will become fuel and it’s game on.

https://www.facebook.com/ian.wishart.543/posts/10227297252445418
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November 19, 2021 10:39am
- ClanMcleod
  
  So the unjabbed should be wary of the jabbed as many have been saying for quite a while. Personally, I won’t abandon anyone. My status is irrelevant, I will stay with my friends and support them, come what may. I refuse to let a fake and a fraud like Ardern destroy what is most important to me.
  
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  November 19, 2021 12:18pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  Still puzzled by this line of argument. It’s always been quite clear to me that the vaccine does not, and has not been claimed to, prevent people from catching, passing on, getting sick from, dying from covid. What has been claimed, and is empirically supported, is that it makes us less likely to catch it and pass it on, very much less likely to get sick from it and very, very much less likely to die from it.
  
  One case, no matter how heavily you load it up with assumptions, doesn’t disprove any of that. The case is enough to prove anybody a liar who said that getting the vaccine would guarantee for certain that you wouldn’t ever catch covid, but who actually said that and when?
  
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  November 19, 2021 12:23pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Perhaps you have forgotten the early publicity that flooded our media about the Pfizer vaccine….
    
    It was 95% effective in preventing folks against symptomatic Covid-19…..
    
    95% effective in clinical trials and in real-life situations.
    
    https://covid.immune.org.nz/covid-19-vaccines-nz/comirnaty-mrna-pfizerbiontech-vaccine/how-comirnaty-vaccine-works-and
    
    Wow!!!!!!! That’s great……
    
    But as far as I can see, it’s efficacy in preventing illness in the elderly and the health compromised is pretty damn limited.
    
    I don’t think Pfizer is our Golden ticket.
    
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    November 19, 2021 1:56pm
    - Fletch
      
      Right. According to the author of one scientific paper, the Pfizer shot is not technically a vaccine at all.
      
      A vaccine is legally defined as any substance designed to be administered to a human being for the prevention of one or more diseases [5]. For example, a January 2000 patent application that defined vaccines as “compositions or mixtures that when introduced into the circulatory system of an animal will evoke a protective response to a pathogen.” was rejected by the U.S. Patent Office because “The immune response produced by a vaccine must be more than merely some immune response but must be protective. As noted in the previous Office Action, the art recognizes the term “vaccine” to be a compound which prevents infection” [6]. In the remainder of this article, we use the term ‘inoculated’ rather than vaccinated, because the injected material in the present COVID-19 inoculations prevents neither viral infection nor transmission. Since its main function in practice appears to be symptom suppression, it is operationally a “treatment”.
      
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      November 19, 2021 3:32pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Really, I have it on good authority that we were going to “stamp it out like measles”. Who said that, oh right, Brenda……let’s go……
    
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    November 20, 2021 7:29am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  The faster it spreads the better at this point. It’s nothing to worry about compared to other real risks in your life unless you’re old or in bad health
  
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  November 19, 2021 12:26pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    True! I’m not getting any younger. Sooner rather than later; summer rather than winter.
    
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    November 19, 2021 8:33pm
Captain Mainwaring

So the fatal crash at 3 am on the Wellington motorway was caused by two clowns racing.
It’s because of idiots like this that the rest of us get subjected to draconian speed limits.
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November 19, 2021 10:55am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Almost all regulation is because of idiots like that. If there were no idiots there would be very little need for Government. What can you do though? The idiots are always with us
  
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  November 19, 2021 11:10am
  - sooty
    
    Darwin is trying, but slowly!
    
    12 0
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    November 19, 2021 12:20pm
  - Jim
    
    Yep it’s particularly tragic when innocent people get caught up in such events. Despite such inescapable injustices I take confidence knowing that natural selection usually wins in the end.
    
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    November 19, 2021 12:24pm
- RightNow
  
  Wonder if they’ll test positive for Covid?
  
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  November 19, 2021 12:34pm
  - Aquataur
    
    Ahh – 2 more Covid deaths then
    
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    November 19, 2021 5:01pm
Southern Raider

It amuses me how the world seems solely focused on the health impact of COVID and has completely neglected finding the root cause and seeking trillion dollar compensation for its release

Very unlikely this was just a natural event and outside an human control. Yet the world seems frightened of actually taking China to task over the most likely explanation

Everyone on the planet has spent last 2 years and looking to be more going forward having their lives, livelihoods and travel restricted by something that should never have occurred.

At best case we go back to fully normal in a years time that means we have all spent around 4% of our lives under restrictions. Just think about that
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November 19, 2021 10:55am
- ClanMcleod
  
  You say China, but it with all available evidence it looks like Fauci is fully responsible via the NIH.
  The Youtube videos of Rand Paul grilling him are worth watching.
  
  “You lied about covid.”
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prU9uV7rq9s
  
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  November 19, 2021 12:22pm
  - Jim
    
    Yep it’s astonishing that perhaps 99.6% of Kiwis wouldn’t understand the tenacious bravery of Senator (MD) Rand Paul or the duplicitous Flip Flop Fauci, as our shill NZ media perhaps hasn’t thought the Fauci NIH and Daszac EHA story to be sufficiently newsworthy! Yet we are treated to a newsworthy story about Jeff Bezos and Shatner going into space only a few weeks before we send a delegation of 15 Climate Emergency activists to COP26!
    
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    November 19, 2021 12:37pm
Cobolt24

10 debunked lies about Kyle Rittenhouse:
https://nypost.com/2021/11/17/10-debunked-heinous-lies-about-kyle-rittenhouse-devine/
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November 19, 2021 11:10am
ClanMcleod

I just flicked to the Whoreald online. The headline:

“Live – Level 3.3 orange light for Auckland.”

Please, somebody tell me I’m reading an old Monty Python script, please tell me this is parody and not some insane system implemented by an ADHD bureaucrat on acid. Please!

WTF is 3.3 orange??????
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November 19, 2021 11:17am
- Fletch
  
  It seems like Bloomfield has hinted that when we go to the traffic light system that Auckland will go straight to orange instead of going to red. And the media are rejoicing. Isn’t it grand? Think of the freedoms ~~we will all~~ the vaccinated will have!
  
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  November 19, 2021 11:20am
- rangitoto
  
  It’s whatever the Ministry of Truth say it is on any particular day, neither more nor less.
  
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  November 19, 2021 11:25am
  - sooty
    
    Subject to change, at a mere whim or feelz!
    
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    November 19, 2021 12:21pm
    - rangitoto
      
      Yep. It’s Alice in Taxindaland.
      
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      November 19, 2021 2:30pm
- Jim
  
  Perhaps marginally better than 3.4 Orange?
  
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  November 19, 2021 12:39pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Or Agent Orange 🙂
    
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    November 19, 2021 5:21pm
- cmm
  
  Clearly levels were not confusing enough so they had to add this extra bullshit too.
  
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  November 19, 2021 5:59pm
ClanMcleod

“The FDA has asked a federal judge to make the public wait until the year 2076 to disclose all of the data and information it relied upon to license Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine. That is not a typo. It wants 55 years to produce this information to the public. ”

55 years?! Why would anyone need to cover up this critical information for a day let alone 55 years? Are people still not understanding that there is something seriously wrong going on in this world?

https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/fda-asks-federal-judge-to-grant-it
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November 19, 2021 11:31am
Tony Stuart

I sat in on an excellent Facebook Live session last night. National MP Chris Penk has Sean Plunket as his guest, talking about the role of the media in politics. It’s well worth a watch:

https://www.facebook.com/christopherpenk/videos/463077722012539/
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November 19, 2021 11:31am
ClanMcleod

I love the Bad Cattitude blog site. They say so much with so few words.

“At what point do we have to rename “conspiracy theories”?
And start calling them “spoiler alerts”?

2 headlines, 2 weeks apart. De Santis is “fact checked”. 2 weeks later Fauci admits boosters will become the new standard for “vaccinated” status.
You can’t make this stuff up. Actually, now I think about it, Ardern makes stuff up on a weekly basis so I suppose she’s living proof you can!

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/at-what-point-do-we-have-to-rename/comments?
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November 19, 2021 11:45am
- Jim
  
  Reading daily blogs like that is like looking into a Kiwi Crystal Ball to predict Ardern’s next disingenuous pivot by her government’s management of the pandemic. I’m sure Ardern is working her Globalist UN ticket quite nicely, but what I can’t forgive is the ‘myopic or shill’ NZ media which has had the benefit of seeing the Fauci et al covid flip flop show, and yet between them not one can ask a critical thinking question of Ardern and Ashley Doomfield.
  
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  November 19, 2021 12:17pm
rangitoto

Chinese tennis player forced to recant accusations against member of ruling junta?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10218477/Serena-Williams-shares-shock-news-Chinese-tennis-ace-Peng-Shuais-disappearance.html
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November 19, 2021 11:59am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Regarding the recent announcement that three houses may be built on existing sections, I see there’s a PwC report that concludes $1B of costs but $2.5B of benefits.

What’s not pointed out is that the costs fall on the neighbours but the benefits go to the developer & the Council.

Before the “it’s my property & I’ll do what I like with it” brigade get on their high horses, consider the impact if I set up a pig farm or mushroom factory. I’d certainly be tempted to do that if I got wind of a monolithic block going up next door.
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November 19, 2021 12:15pm
- lifesgood
  
  This idea of 3 storeys of 3 on any section is sickening and I’m disgusted with National and Judith for agreeing to it. Are they out of their minds? Where do I stand with a property behind me with an easement over my drive? Does that mean I could have 10 households instead of 1 using my drive? Anyone know?
  
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  November 19, 2021 3:05pm
- cmm
  
  One of the biggest challenges with infill housing is that the services were not built for them.
  
  Three times the sewage, three times the water, three times the electricity, three times the internet connections, three times the cars parking on the street.
  
  Sorting all that out is going to require a lot of trench digging, new sewerage, new water pipes, etc etc.
  
  It is WAY easier to dig up a greenfields subdivision but the town planner types are fixated on high density living.
  
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  November 19, 2021 5:57pm
ClanMcleod

OK, I know we all think certain information is important, I believe this is extremely important. In regards to a post I did earlier re the FDA asking a judge to keep the Pfizer trial results and safety data under wraps for 55 years. This post covers the issues in detail. Surely the very least that should be made widely available is all of the data used to make decisions with implications I would suggest rival the dropping of the first atomic bomb?

The basic premise they reach is that:

“If the data is not validated, the vaccine cannot be mandated! We could wrap this clown show up in about 15 minutes”

I fail to see how that is not a clear and obvious fact.

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/if-the-data-is-not-validated-the

“The FDA asked a federal judge to allow them to release 500 pages a month until they get all 329,000 pages out.

I suspect we can count on them not starting with anything juicy…

we won’t see that until 2076…

This is in response to a lawsuit filed by numerous eminent scientists and researchers who want to see this data. they want to check it, replicate the analysis, and test the conclusions and methodology used to approve a drug already given to probably a billion people.

This seems the very quintessence of reasonable.

If this vaccine is so effective, so safe, and so suited for widespread use, how can the data that was used to prove it be some sort of state secret?

If the data is as claimed and will validate, pfizer should be clamoring to release it. when have you ever seen a science team suppress their own promising results?

and this momentous decision about the public interest and public health is now in the hands of one judge (about whom i know nothing and so have no take on what they are likely to do).

This is a world-class, weapons-grade political football. would a judge even have the courage to wade in? because they need to. this is despicable and it stinks like a fish head i once left behind the radiator for a month.

If this data is not released, the public should be in the streets with torches and pitchforks in legions that stretch from horizon to horizon.”

I am still a bit stunned by what I just read.
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November 19, 2021 12:35pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  A downtick by someone who couldn’t even have read the whole post let alone follow the link to the original and digest the content.
  I’m honoured. I have someone who hates everything I write no matter the content! I’ve never had that before. Very humbling, thank you.
  
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  November 19, 2021 12:55pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The downticker got to the 5th word (think) and got all discombobulated
    
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    November 19, 2021 2:08pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      And I bet he’s intimidated by tall women 😀
      
      12 3
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      November 19, 2021 2:16pm
  - surfing
    
    Oh yeah, ignore downticks and upticks.
    
    They don’t really mean much. Kiwiblog is a narrow sector of society.
    
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    November 19, 2021 2:35pm
- surfing
  
  Conspiracy theory. Just like man never landed on the moon.
  
  Tell me when all these people are supposed to start dying from the covid vaccine?
  
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  November 19, 2021 2:33pm
  - mawm
    
    They are. Look for an increase of all cause mortality where there is an increase above previous years minus the covid deaths. This is being detected in many countries.
    
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    November 19, 2021 7:13pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Surfing, what’s a conspiracy theory? Please tell me, are you saying the court case to suppress the data isn’t real? If you are, then that’s another “conspiracy theory” that came true in the last 2 years!
    As for vaccine deaths, you haven’t been reading VAERS, Eudravigilance or the Yellowcard reporting system in the UK obviously and northern hemisphere winter is just kicking in. Watch closely. NZ is still in fantasy land. Check out Gibralter.
    
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    November 20, 2021 7:42am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Why would you leave a fish head behind your radiator for a month?
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:44pm
ClanMcleod

OK, another excellent post. Last for me for at least 5 hours. I’m off for a game of golf and a couple of cold beers.
“And behold, the lies have become too great to sustain! And the beast doth begin to feed upon its own.”

Is the narrative crumbling. Rhetorical question really hence the lack of question mark.

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/and-behold-the-lies-have-become-too
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November 19, 2021 12:50pm
- surfing
  
  Excellent because it supports your conspiracy.
  
  Enjoy your beers though. Nice day.
  
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  November 19, 2021 2:34pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    The more a person uses the term “conspiracy theory” without qualifying why with meaningful input, the more it indicates complete an abject inability to think critically or debate rationally.
    You’re today’s winner.
    
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    November 20, 2021 7:45am
Fletch

If you’re interested, a post on Reddit with a link to the 190 page document of the case brought to the High Court by Heterodoxies Society Incorporated against Jacinda, Bloomfield, Hendy at the rest of the cohort around Covid. It’s a long read and I don’t agree with some of it, but supposedly their claims are backed up by footnotes all the way through.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ConservativeKiwi/comments/pebl5s/high_court_case_brought_by_heterodoxies_society/
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November 19, 2021 1:07pm
Prince

Disgraceful breach of Treaty of Waitangi by Labour Government.
How often will they breach our founding document before Maori realise they are not the friendly paternal ‘partners’ they pretend to be.
I expect a full apology, recompense, and stern words at Waitangi next year. What do Maiki Sharman, Mani Dunlop and the rest of the cabal make of this ?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127038878/waitangi-tribunal-finds-ecommerce-cptpp-breaches-treaty-principles-but-makes-no-further-recommendations
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November 19, 2021 1:08pm
- sooty
  
  HHHHHHHAAAAAAAAA, watch ya gunna do?
  
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  November 19, 2021 2:03pm
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTION

One of the girls at tennis raised an interesting question this morning……
They have a yuge tree blocking their view and wanted to know the quikest way to silently kill it?
Being very environmentally aware people, they do not want to use any sort of ‘toxic herbicides’ etc.
She said her dad had suggested…. “hammering a few dozen large copper nails around the base”, but Fleur’s concerned the neighbors might hear them doing it.

Anyway, I told her I’d run it past the group on KB just in case someone has any other ideas?
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November 19, 2021 1:09pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  The copper nails should be hammered in at a height of about two metres. Then, from the nails hang some flimsy Labour Party and Green Party signs. Flimsy, so that after two weeks they will be gone.
  It would be best to find two women, both attired in high viz jackets, to wield the hammers. Gender equality and all that. Then you will be ticking all the boxes and the nosey neighbours will be delighted.
  One problem I envisage is that most women who are competent at wielding a hammer, are more competent at “tongue in groove”, presumably, flooring.
  
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  November 19, 2021 1:38pm
  - sooty
    
    Or hammer copper nails in around the ground level and punch them in through the bark, rub dirt over to hide!
    If using labour/green type banners is good, don’t need to hide nails then!
    If it’s on her property, a chainsaw does wonders!
    
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    November 19, 2021 2:00pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I had tongue in groove in our last house but my ex preferred carpet.
    
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    November 19, 2021 2:10pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Copper nails work, I have done it twice. Copper, not silicone bronze or phosphor bronze
    
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    November 19, 2021 2:13pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Depends on the species…
  
  but trenching around the tree and keeping the root system flooded (preferably with salty water) is bound to do damage to nice specimen trees over a period of a year or so…
  
  But if it is a pohutukawa or a willow, or a lily-pilly, then tell your friend to invite some bag-pipers around for a practise session while she chain-saws it down.
  
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  November 19, 2021 2:11pm
  - Bridgenag
    
    Drill with injection of RU will do it Whoops…. not PC
    
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    November 19, 2021 2:21pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    First thing I asked Fleur was whether it was a native.
    But she thinks its only a rimu.
    
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    November 19, 2021 2:32pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Red Pine
      
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      November 19, 2021 3:05pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  Hate to be the boring responsible adult here, but should you be sharing other people’s plans to carry out illegal acts on a public forum? We are none of us as anonymous on t’interwebs as we’d like to imagine
  
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  November 19, 2021 2:23pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Sorry if I didn’t make things clear Al.
    It’s not on a public forum….it’s on private land.
    
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    November 19, 2021 4:08pm
- rangitoto
  
  A 50/50 mixture of 2,4,5 T and 2,4 D is the best solution. Chainsaws are also effective but noisy.
  
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  November 19, 2021 3:05pm
- quarterpack
  
  Wilful damage
  (1)
  Every person is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months or a fine not exceeding $2,000 who intentionally—
  (a)
  damages any property; or
  (b)
  sets on fire any tree or other vegetation.
  (2)
  For the purposes of subsection (1), a person does an act intentionally if he does it intentionally or recklessly, and without lawful justification or excuse or claim of right.
  (3)
  The fact that the person charged had an interest in the property at the material time shall not prevent his act constituting an offence against this section if he did it with intent to defraud or to cause loss to any other person.
  (4)
  For the purposes of subsection (3), where any property is subject to any mortgage or charge, each of the parties to the mortgage or charge shall be deemed to have an interest in the property.
  Compare: 1927 No 35 s 6(1), (3)–(6); 1952 No 43 s 2; 1960 No 7 s 5; 1967 No 154 s 2(1)
  
  Section 11(1): amended, on 1 January 1998, by section 7 of the Summary Offences Amendment Act 1997 (1997 No 97).
  
  Section 11(2): amended, on 1 October 2003, by section 34 of the Crimes Amendment Act 2003 (2003 No 39).
  
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  November 19, 2021 4:01pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Declare them racist anti-vaxxers. Carve some big indelible swastikas in them to prove it.
  
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  November 19, 2021 6:11pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Build two additional houses on it
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:46pm
Gravelroad

Coming in late in the day here, but what a nasty, race-baiting man Stuart Nash is.
I would be ashamed to have any person such as him on any team with which I was involved.
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November 19, 2021 1:49pm
Nickc2

NZ Parliament passes a bill that could put Gang Members on Road Block duty.
I wonder if that will be published in Australia and if it will encourage Aust Classification 501 Deportees to come home with less resistance?
Talk about the Fox in charge of the Hen House
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November 19, 2021 1:57pm
- rockape
  
  Love to see a Black Power road block try and stop someKillerBees out for a joy ride.Such fun !
  
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  November 19, 2021 3:08pm
Bridgenag

I had a very distressing morning with a representative [ practically a bureaucrat] a “love Cindy”, “she saved us” , no Unemployment, no MSM problems because they are saying things against the gov therefore MSM payout doesn’t exist , look at Germany, O…. [someone says we are doing financially well],”
OK,……….lots of other stuff. keep Auckland in so that they don’t pollute….. DEFINITELY partnership with the Crown

Partner says….what were you doing….just agree, you won’t change his view…. HE SAID If you want a grant you will have to love Jacinda etc etc Anyone with a rate reduction because they have given land to the country will no longer get that…… not in Auckland anyway…..hard to get and minuscule actually…..will have to be satisfied with “grants”

Serves me right some will say….. Try to change and further they will move to their corner….. Sigh…..
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November 19, 2021 1:57pm
Surely Knott

Is the traffic light system a law? I can’t see the details in the new Public Health Response bill.

Questions:
At RED Light without a vax certificate system the Covid table shows you can have a “Gathering (wedding, places of workship or marae) up to 10 people”
“Hospitality contactless only.”

So what is the definition of a gathering vs hospitality.
So I can have a wedding as a gathering but it doesn’t define the place so presumably I can have a meal or wedding event at a restaurant? But I cannot have a sit down restaurant meal with the same number of people if it’s defined as hospitality? . Is a gathering a birthday? So can 10 people go to a restaurant for a birthday gathering without a certificate? Is a gathering a gang head quarters? Is a gathering the nature of the event, the location or the reason for celebration?

Are people allowed to still have bbqs at home under red light? Is a home party a gathering and if so without a vaxx cert you can have 10 people at your house?

What is contactless hospitality. Can an unvaccinated sit inside at a table and just pick the meal up from the counter. Eg no table service. Can they sit at an outdoor restaurant table? How far apart is contactless. Can they come into the restaurant and pick up the food.

Close contact (haircut) is banned for unvaccinated.. For Aucklanders that means they haven’t had haircuts for months and without a passport never will. But what is close contact. What if a person at a “gathering ” and their is a hairdresser at the gathering? Can you cut your hair at a gathering. IIdoesn’t say you have to socially distance at gatherings. You can kiss your rellies? I But can they cut you r hair?
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November 19, 2021 2:17pm
- Surely Knott
  
  And also you can fly or leave Auckland with a vax or negative test. But their is no provision for people who have a negative tests in the framework system.
  Is that legal or scientifically justified.
  
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  November 19, 2021 2:30pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Daughter cut my hair. No 4 comb. All of the mirrors have been turned around including the one in the Landcruiser
  
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  November 19, 2021 4:04pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Oh Dear…
Andrew Little tries to blame National for the lack of beds in our Hospital system.

Little, however, lays the blame at the feet of the previous National government.

Has he forgotten that the last Government was a coalition of Labour and NZ First?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/456056/warning-bells-from-health-experts-national-party-over-health-system-s-ability-to-cope-with-more-covid-19-cases
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November 19, 2021 2:22pm
- surfing
  
  Really? Just the other week I heard Andrew Little on the radio and he was saying we had increased capacity and everything was perfect!
  
  Weasel words from weasel man.
  
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  November 19, 2021 2:30pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  DPF did an excellent post in May 2017 demonstrating clearly that Labour’s claims about National not increasing Health funding were somewhat less than accurate:
  
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/05/labours_lies_on_health_spending.html
  
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  November 19, 2021 4:24pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Not that one, silly!
  
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  November 19, 2021 8:48pm
Alan Wilkinson

Asking for a friend, is there anything, abolutely anything, this Government can not make worse?
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November 19, 2021 3:05pm
- rangitoto
  
  Gangs are doing extremely well under this government.
  
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  November 19, 2021 3:53pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Their salaries – they will get much better while our ones suffer with inflation
  
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  November 19, 2021 3:59pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  the prospects of insolvency practitioners?
  
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  November 19, 2021 6:14pm
RW Capitalist

Oh dear
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html
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November 19, 2021 3:14pm
- cmm
  
  Don’t worry, they’ve got the VP for back up…
  
  https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/kamala_harris_favorableunfavorable-6690.html
  
  6 0
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  November 19, 2021 5:45pm
- ABS4EVA
  
  Best Quote I read this week as
  
  You can’t think and remain a Democrat.
  
  1 1
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  November 19, 2021 10:03pm
westernScientest

WTF

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127038878/waitangi-tribunal-finds-ecommerce-cptpp-breaches-treaty-principles-but-makes-no-further-recommendations
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November 19, 2021 3:14pm
Fletch

If anyone is interested, the COVID-19 Public Health Response Amendment Act 2021 that went through today. Looks like the Director General has pretty broad powers under Section 11. ?

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2021/0048/latest/LMS552303.html
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November 19, 2021 3:37pm
Surely Knott

Number of hospitalisations and ICU is used as the metric that the vaccine is “preventing serious disease.” But is this a true reflection.

Of the 38 people who died in NZ with Covid, 17 were over 80 years old. Despite this being the highest age group for death with Covid no one over 80 went to ICU. This would be measured as the vaccine preventing serious disease. Maybe that is why they announce the vax status of the hospitalised but not of the dead.
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November 19, 2021 3:40pm
IndividualResponsibility

Can anyone shed any light on the fact that neither Swifty, nor Pharmachic, appear to have posted on GD for some time? I found both very informative, and in Swifty’s case, frequently entertaining.
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November 19, 2021 4:15pm
Tony Stuart

Sir Ian Taylor isn’t happy, and he’s given the Government both barrels:

I start today in a state of complete and utter despair.

I have tried so hard, with the support of incredibly innovative Kiwis, to provide politicians and Government officials with a way forward that would give us a ray of hope to counter the shadow of fear that has been generated constantly from the daily press conferences.

Yesterday we were once again delivered the unchallenged factoid that 30,000 people would have died had we not been locked away, families separated, loved ones left to die alone, weddings cancelled – some multiple times – businesses destroyed and fellow Kiwis, so many of them now stateless, homeless and broke – stranded overseas.

Over the past weeks I have been inspired by the incredibly innovative Kiwi companies that have stepped up to help, by the thousands of messages of support from so many of you out there and by the constant encouragement from my incredible team – my family – in Dunedin who have given me the time and space away from the day-to-day business to do something they believe is important as well.

During that time, I have been filled with a growing sense of optimism that there is a way forward that need not be shrouded in fear. A fear that is now creating dangerous chasms across Aotearoa.

Yesterday that optimism was dashed when the Prime Minister announced that nothing was going to change on our borders until sometime in the first quarter of next year.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/covid-19-delta-outbreak-sir-ian-taylors-miq-logbook-overwhelmed-ministry-needs-help/7YQC2EIGDV4VH4334AGTZLQUOQ/?fbclid=IwAR0jHnNxLgXqH4xaj_3ADd9fqI-fCP_GQ2L7GiTZ9NH8edAhdQlOTnnXKxg

Elsewhere, Sir Ian has referred to the self-isolation trial as “shambolic” and “a train wreck”, whilst another of those of the trial suggests “Fawlty Towers is better organised”. And lest anyone think that Sir Ian’s response is political; he is transparent about his voting history; with the exception of two elections, he is a lifelong Labour voter.

National has this afternoon ramped up the pressure on the Government over MIQ. A graphic is doing the rounds with the faces of Jacinda Ardern and Judith Collins supporting, respectively, the Team of 5 Million and the Team of 6 Million. That’s a clear reference from National about Labour’s disdain for the almost-million New Zealanders living offshore, many of whom can’t get home for love nor money.

There was speculation this morning that a change in MIQ was imminent, but Ardern hosed that down at a presser in Christchurch; is there frustration between her and Chris Hipkins?

In the meantime, Sir Ian Taylor deserves plaudits for his honesty. Unfortunately, he’s probably going to end up receiving a stream of abuse from those who still believe Jacinda Ardern walks on water and saved 80,000 Kiwis!
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November 19, 2021 4:22pm
- Nickc2
  
  All was going well till I struck Aotearoa!!!
  
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  November 19, 2021 4:35pm
- fernglas
  
  The political aspect to the Government’s response has been its almost complete refusal to engage with the private sector to get help with doing things efficiently. Instead it has been left to a Civil Service which has throughout been obstructive (ask Sam Morgan) risk-averse (ask those who have sought MIQ exemptions) and quite simply incompetent. An ideology that has at its core the belief that the State should, and can, provide is the wrong one for a crisis. It can be effective at stopping things from happening, as in the first phase of the Covid response, but is is useless for the current recovery phase. Unfortunately, a career bureaucrat like Bloomfield has too much skin in the game to ever admit that his people are wrong or incompetent. Witness his repeated responses to Court cases that have told him they are not acting lawfully, which is to by and large ignore them or pretend that they are saying something different from what they actually say. This Covid thing has given a lot of rather small, unimportant people like Baker, Bloomfield, Wiles et.al. the chance to bask in the limelight, and they are finding it very hard to let go. A proper leader would get people on board who are suited for the job of recovery, but that seems ideologically impossible, and so we are left with a cruel and utterly pointless MIQ system, misuse of Covid funds and a hospital system that has been ignored.
  
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  November 19, 2021 7:31pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Talk about bad luck…

I wandered down to the mall to pick up a copy of the local newspaper, only to discover that I’d missed out on a free feed of Frybread delivered by the Associate Min of Health.

https://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/frontpage-featured/20211119/protecting-whnau/

Bumma…
I’ll have to have a big fry-up tonight instead….
Might need a bit of extra padding for when Covid hits.
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November 19, 2021 4:31pm
- cmm
  
  “Phase 1 is $60 million in funding to provide direct financial support to iwi and Māori organisations in their efforts to accelerate vaccination uptake over the next two months.
  
  Phase 2 is a further $60m to support Māori, iwi and communities to respond to the new Covid-19 Protection Framework (traffic light system) which, in some cases, will involve adapting and implementing existing pandemic response plans and resilience planning.”
  
  That’s got to be the most expensive fry bread ever.
  
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  November 19, 2021 5:41pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

Anyone else think Poto Williams and Andrew Coster might have more important things on their plate, than regularly texting each other about Bishop Brian’s whereabouts?

Asking for a friend.
17 2
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November 19, 2021 4:53pm
Maggie Pie

And Tim Paine tells ZB News…

“Pictures of his genitalia sexted to a female reporter, do not meet the standards expected of an Australian Cricket Captain”
😛

He has been stood down accordingly.
9 2
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November 19, 2021 5:14pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Snicked over long leg boundary.
  
  9 0
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  November 19, 2021 5:21pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Goodness,
  Who knew there were standards for Cricket Captains’ genitalia?
  
  Still, that could explain things like wide balls, one short and googlies.
  
  12 0
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  November 19, 2021 5:29pm
  - greybeard
    
    How about no ball?
    Was it a four or a six? Or more?
    
    9 0
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    November 19, 2021 5:38pm
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      Obviously didn’t bowl the maiden over.
      
      9 0
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      November 19, 2021 5:58pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    West Indy’s Captain Brian Lara has set the standard according to one of he girls from tennis Maggs.
    
    7 4
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    November 19, 2021 5:57pm
- Nickc2
  
  Chris Gayle e-mailed her a better offer.
  
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  November 19, 2021 9:20pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/127028902/rotorua-lakes-council-fined-60000-for-sinister-and-evil-pollution
Wrong!
Rotorua Lakes RATEPAYERS fined $60,000 for actions of council staff.
13 0
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November 19, 2021 5:31pm
Fletch

The news was saying that Auckland should reach 90% doubled jabbed this afternoon. Very coincidental, huh?
1 1
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November 19, 2021 6:22pm
Maggie Pie

Total eclipde of the sun tonite @ 10pm
Firsrt time in 800 yrs – dont miss it.
6 3
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November 19, 2021 7:34pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  mmmmm….
  I think you might have muddled up your celestial bodies maggie pie.
  
  10 0
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  November 19, 2021 7:39pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  I note that whilst the Pleiades in July warrants another statutory holiday the special people make no mention of the total eclipse of the moon.
  I get the impression that if the celestial beings came bearing some koha we may have heard more from the numerous kaumatua.
  
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  November 19, 2021 10:32pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Good grief. ?
  
  Were you drinking ? ??
  
  It was the moon not the sun.
  
  It was not a total eclipse.
  
  It was the longest duration eclipse in New Zealand for 800 years. Not the first eclipse for 800 years. ?
  
  1 0
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  November 20, 2021 7:33am
fernglas

Chris Trotter rips the scab off the festering sore that is 3 waters:
https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2021/11/chris-trotter-yesterdays-controversy.html#more
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November 19, 2021 7:48pm

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