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November 21, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 21 November 2021

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General Debate

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krazykiwi

I have been following the UK mortality data for more than a year. The UK entities charged with publishing Covid-related statistics put most public health authorities in most western countries to shame. The weekly data published by ONS and UK Health Security Authority are helping illuminate important aspects of this pandemic (technically and epidemic now), and all manner of researchers and commentators are free to mine these data for insights.

This insight is particularly concerning: –

Vaccinated English adults under 60 are dying at twice the rate of unvaccinated people the same age

Look at that chart. It is based on official UK government data. The upward trend in excess all-cause deaths for the vaxxed cost coincided with the availability of second shots.

Pfizer said “Safe and effective”, and like a classroom full of ESL students the FDA, CDC, WHO and public health authorities the world over all parroted the same line, with the MSM amplifying the message.

There is more to play out with this story. It appears the link between these ‘vaccines’ and unexpected negative outcomes will become clearer, but at a large human cost.
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November 21, 2021 8:00am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Ah, Alex Berenson. Author of spy fiction and the ‘pandemic’s wrongest man’.
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:05am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    Welcome to another day of lockdown tyranny.
    
    Mike I sincerely hope that you are double vaccinated and are happily lining up for your third.
    
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    November 21, 2021 9:56am
  - backster
    
    Nah Milky he couldn’t dethrone Sean Hendy for that title.
    
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    November 21, 2021 10:06am
  - rouppe
    
    If it based on public government data, how about you prove that data wrong.
    
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    November 21, 2021 10:46am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      ‘based on’ = “here are some numbers I found” + “my wild conjectures”
      
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      November 21, 2021 11:55am
      - rouppe
        
        Shown (not even proved) by…?
        
        Oh, right, nothing
        
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        November 21, 2021 2:23pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Ah, mikenmildagain. Blog Troll and KB’s resident naysayer.
    
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    November 21, 2021 11:05am
- krazykiwi
  
  Heh. Apologies for the typos. I damaged the tip of my right index finger in a DIY blunder yesterday, so iPhone keyboard is a problem this morning 🙂
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:06am
  - Lee C
    
    Covid-related, I assume?
    
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    November 21, 2021 8:26am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Hacksaw + (enthusiasm – care) = Ouch
      
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      November 21, 2021 8:33am
      - JackRabbit
        
        So definitely Covid then.
        
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        November 21, 2021 11:06am
  - cmm
    
    You typed all that out on an iphone? Bloody masochist!
    
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    November 21, 2021 8:45am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  Vaccinated people are ticking time bombs, because there is no way of telling what the medium or long term effects are, due to the novelty of the substance. If multiple boosters are proposed, which is likely, things will get interesting. No doubt the powers that be will wring their hands and claim “we just didn’t know” when the inevitable happens, confirming one aspect of the sceptical argument.
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:07am
  - Sacha
    
    – as Jonathan Swift said 300 years ago, “falsehood flies, and the truth comes limping after it.”
    
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    November 21, 2021 9:36am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    A lot of people write about “the vaccine” as if it’s one technology.
    
    There are at least two completely different technologies with the Covid Vaccines. It would be good if people could identify which vaccine they are talking about when they discuss various vaccination related stats.
    
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    November 21, 2021 5:32pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Here is a great mashup of world leaders talking up the invincibility of the ‘vaccines’ then, presumably as the wheels started coming off the narrative, walking back and switching to ‘boosters’ being the golden bullet. These people belong in the dock for crimes against humanity.
    
    https://twitter.com/AnonCitizenUK/status/1461705941850726401
    
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    November 21, 2021 6:45pm
- Andrew Worth
  
  From your link: “I don’t know how to explain this other than vaccine-caused mortality.”
  
  How about self selection? Unhealthy people knowing they’re at greater risk from covid are more likely to get vaccinated than healthy people, but getting vaccinated doesn’t reduce their risk of dropping dead from heart attacks and other general health related ailments.
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:09am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    [Deleted – unhelpful. mod.]
    
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    November 21, 2021 8:11am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    “Unhealthy people knowing they’re at greater risk from covid are more likely to get vaccinated than healthy people”
    
    Or alternatively, they are less likely to get vaccinated, as evidenced by the fact that a reason for their being unhealthy is likely that they habitually neglect their health.
    
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    November 21, 2021 8:13am
    - Andrew Worth
      
      I suspect if obese people could lose their obesity with a simple jab most would get the weight loss jab, if asthmatics could cure their asthma with a simple jab they’d get the asthma cure jab and if people with congenital heart conditions could get their heart fixed with a jab they’d get that jab.
      
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      November 21, 2021 9:56am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Yes, that could be a factor. These things are multi-variate so I expect there could be a range of explanations. One I’m interested in is excess mortality by cause. There is some good data here.
    
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    November 21, 2021 8:22am
    - Andrew Worth
      
      Yep, that shows that covid does kill people, the interesting thing there is that there have been excess UK deaths over the last 18 months, so covid has brought the deaths of those it’s killed forward, on average, by years rather than months. Over the next few years excess deaths will be negative (other things being equal) which will allow us to see by just how much covid shortened lives.
      
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      November 21, 2021 8:36am
      - cmm
        
        There are ar thousand things going on apart from CV19:
        * harvesting effect – maybe the previous years didn’t harvest as hard leaving more vulnerable people.
        * demographic waves – the “baby boom” made a wave of more babies, then more school kids, then more wedding dresses and now they’re starting to fall off their perches.
        * CV19 responses have reduced exercise and impacted general health in other ways.
        * CV19 reponses have lead to longer NHS waiting times and people have not been getting treatments.
        
        There are so many things going on that it is impossible to say that there is just one cause.
        
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        November 21, 2021 8:51am
      - krazykiwi
        
        In most countries the mean age of Covid-caused death exceeds normal life expectancy. But yes, Covid will harvest some prior to their other comorbidities doing likewise, and a tiny number will be unexpectedly harvested. The other new root causes of death are NPIs (lockdowns etc) and the world’s largest vaccine experiment. The best evidence I have to date suggests these two causes will outstrip the tiny virus by a wide margin.
        
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        November 21, 2021 8:53am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    It is certainly going to be investigated further. There is another thing going on in the UK. There is an astonishingly high backlog in the NHS for treatments for illnesses not COVID. So maybe now you have vaccinated people (who are disproportionately older compared to the unvaccinated, especially in the UK) dying of under treated and late diagnosed cancer and a hundred other ailments.
    
    I’m willing to accept that the vaccine may kill some people. But I would be very surprised if that were the cause of the gap between those two lines.
    
    There will be a number of factors but it warrants urgent analysis.
    
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    November 21, 2021 8:34am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Sorry that should have been “But I would be very surprised if that were the ONLY cause of the gap between those two lines.”
      
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      November 21, 2021 8:36am
    - krazykiwi
      
      I agree. The deferred treatment backlog must be a factor. That’s why I’m looking at cause-specific mortality. But even that is confounded by lack of historical baseline.
      
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      November 21, 2021 8:40am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Indeed, and this was also widely predicted at the beginning of this madness. That the cure would be worse than the disease. That is being borne out now exactly as those who warned about it said. There will be many more deaths from the inept decision to lockdown and depend on a “vaccine” to save the day.
        There is a massive treatment backlog in the UK, there will be many deaths that should not have happened. The ongoing mental toll from lockdown, destruction of business etc will not even be factored in to statistics.
        NZ will follow the same path, just a few months behind.
        
        “In return for only limited protection against severe outcomes, the vaccines appear to encourage the spread of SARS-2, in multiple different ways. In continuing to insist on mass vaccination, our public health bureaucrats are doing the bidding of the virus. There is no other way to look at it.”
        
        https://eugyppius.substack.com/p/mass-vaccination-may-permanently
        
        Take the jab if you think you are in a high risk category, but be aware of the unfolding evidence, do your own research. You won’t get much truth from the “single source of truth”. She is playing politics.
        Jabbing everyone is not the answer, it never was, and the evidence is becoming more visible every day. That Ardern carries on with her vicious mandates and traffic light system with this knowledge available is malfeasance.
        
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        November 21, 2021 9:01am
      - mawm
        
        Geert vanden Bossche made those predictions early on in the vaccination hysteria. This is a long interview with him demystifying immunity and its various types, and why these vaccines and the way they are being used are responsible for the problems we are seeing and what lies ahead. It’s very good.
        https://www.voiceforscienceandsolidarity.org/videos-and-interviews/geert-vanden-bossche-interview-at-the-highwire
        
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        November 21, 2021 12:17pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Mawm the video you provided interviewing Geert vanden Bossche was high quality stuff. It was good to see counter opinions from other high level experts as well in there!
        
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        November 21, 2021 6:25pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        If Geert vanden Bossche is right, our governments really need to get off the mass vaccination bandwagon (especially with children) and instead urgently bulk purchase (and/or start manufacturing) plus mass-deploy the covid19 prophylactics that are now available. Yeah big pharma will get more rich. A small price to pay IMHO.
        
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        November 21, 2021 7:45pm
  - Spoff
    
    KK’s linked study concerns itself with excess deaths. Those “dropping dead from heart attacks and other general health related ailments” are already accounted for in the normal death rate.
    Wriggling is an early sign of Parkinson’s.
    
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    November 21, 2021 9:08am
- Fletch
  
  New study from Germany –
  
  Prof. Dr. Rolf Steyer and Dr. Gregor Kappler analyzed the period from week 36 to week 40.
  
  The results are alarming. The summary of the analysis states:
  
  Excess mortality can be found in all 16 countries. The number of Covid deaths reported by the RKI in the period under review consistently only represents a relatively small part of the excess mortality and above all cannot explain the critical issue:
  
  The higher the vaccination rate, the higher the excess mortality.
  
  The most direct explanation is:
  ･ Complete vaccination increases the likelihood of death.
  
  Google Translate needed –
  
  https://reitschuster.de/post/bundeslaender-mit-hoher-impfquote-haben-hoechste-uebersterblichkeit/
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:11am
  - Andrew Worth
    
    This is like pointing out that vaccination rates in Auckland are higher than in most on the rest of NZ, covid death rates are also higher in Auckland, therefore vaccination causes covid deaths. SMH.
    
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    November 21, 2021 9:31am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Many people are determined to avoid what is becoming blindingly obvious. There will be many who did everything asked of them and believed everything they were told. Now bemused that apparently the jab isn’t the miracle cure it was made out to be, that in fact, they will have to get multiple untested updates just to keep levels of protection up. That they have no idea what the long term effects of that might be.
      That’s hard to take, but get used to it because the news isn’t going to get any better.
      
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      November 21, 2021 10:04am
    - mawm
      
      I haven’t read the google translate of that particular survey but in all the others showing increased mortality the deaths from covid have been subtracted from the excess column. Because of the average age of covid deaths is so high many of them would normally have been represented in the annual deaths column. This probably points to a far higher excess death rate. Some clever statistician will eventually parse it out.
      
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      November 21, 2021 12:26pm
- Andrei
  
  It has been quite apparent for a long time we are witnessing the biggest Public Health mistake in human history
  
  The fixation on vaccines rather than treatments is bonkers as is the insistence of mass vaccinating groups to whom the disease presents a risk of serious illness or death of approximately zero
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:12am
  - ABS4EVA
    
    You do REALISE if they are WRONG
    and they have not and did not calculate
    IF they are WRONG in any AREA with this
    NZ and AUS are FINISHED.
    
    They never calculated the WHAT IF
    
    They have had EVERYTHING Right
    They ALWAYS do and ALWAYS have.
    
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    November 21, 2021 10:44am
  - mawm
    
    Andrei – you might be interested in this video from early on in the vaccination madness. It expresses exactly what I found myself to be very uneasy about what the medical community at the behest of the politicians were doing. You are probably the same.
    https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1424573018001612806/vid/640×360/mtohy9TTwZ7fycGX.mp4?tag=14
    
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    November 21, 2021 12:32pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Who is the main guy talking in that video?
      
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      November 21, 2021 8:08pm
- Charmaine Hawke
  
  Written by Ian Wishhart, interesting and correct from what we are seeing overseas.
  “Some of my media colleagues don’t like the criticism… but again I have to call them out for leaving key facts out of covid stories.
  Late this morning news broke of a “fully vaccinated” person who tested positive in Christchurch after returning from a visit to Auckland.
  Initially, media reported the case was fully vaccinated. All good.
  But by the 6pm news that detail was missing from stories… and curiously missing from the Ministry of Health media release.
  In fact tonight you will be hard-pressed to find any current news stories discussing the vax status.
  Why is it relevant? Because the patient is a mother with three children under the age of 11. It’s highly likely she was fully vaxxed less than three months ago.
  This scenario of the vaccine wearing off much quicker than the assumed six months is becoming all too common – I pinged Stuff last week for telling the story of a fully vaxxed Auckland man catching covid but failing to mention WHEN he had been fully vaxxed: JUST SIX WEEKS EARLIER!
  A thunderstorm always begins with a few spits of rain… and then suddenly there’s a deluge. I think a covid thunderstorm is coming and many who have been vaxxed are going to get a surprise. … abridged.
  
  [Don’t quote large or entire (? unauthorised) tracts of other’s work. A link is acceptable. mod.]
  
  Try this: https://www.facebook.com/100995481812910/posts/d41d8cd9/390163679562754/
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:14am
  - Charmaine Hawke
    
    Mod- I couldn’t get a link hence the entire thing, sorry.
    
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    November 21, 2021 10:03am
- slightlyrighty
  
  This information is from Alex Berenson. He is regarded as possibly the world’s wrongest man on Covid.
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:17am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    Can you be more specific?
    
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    November 21, 2021 10:04am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      As with all of those terrified that their world view is crumbling or their princess is buck naked and it isn’t pretty, there is never a lucid response. Just the usual hysterical ad hominem.
      It’s been quite fascinating watching. It took me at least a dozen emails to journalists asking them to please explain. What was the “misinformation” they keep screaming about in their relentless pro covid narrative hit pieces? Then I realised they weren’t answering because they couldn’t. Like those in this forum who never have a counter view. All they have is sarcasm or smear.
      
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      November 21, 2021 11:03am
      - mawm
        
        “It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” ― Mark Twain
        
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        November 21, 2021 12:35pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Really? Maybe try debunking the information instead of attacking the source? I am sick and tired of people smearing the source instead of addressing the information. It is rife in the mainstream media and among the majority of those who are starting to realise they have been lied to but just refuse to admit it.
    Benedict Yu is an exception, someone who can assess and process new information as it comes along and adjusts their position accordingly. This is adult behaviour as opposed to those who resort to ad hominem because they don’t have the ability to debate their position. Either that or they are too immature to admit they may be wrong. There is going to be a lot of that in the months to come. There will be a lot of very angry people.
    
    Cheers Brenda.
    
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    November 21, 2021 10:10am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Sorry down ticked you by accident.
      
      An example of authorities running scared. Global refusal by governments to even discuss the possibility that the heart damage we are seeing is caused by the mistaken injection of the vaccine into a blood vessel rather than a muscle.
      
      If it turns out to be correct expect a decade of law suits. It is the only thing about the vaccine ne that really scares me. And it won’t be the vaccine manufacturers in the shit. Their technical guides say “for intramuscular injection only”. If a trainee nurse at Wal-Mart injects it into a vein not their problem.
      
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      November 21, 2021 10:31am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        BY I believe they have too much invested now to act rationally. The Eugyppius blog does excellent analysis in all aspects of this. I don’t know who is behind the site, but due to the quality of the content it’s believed to be someone well qualified and possibly highly placed somewhere.
        
        “So high rates of vaccination can’t reduce infections, and vaccinating the oldest and sickest hasn’t done very much for overall hospitalisations and deaths either. Yet our governments press on, not because the vaccines are working, but because they’re not.”
        
        https://eugyppius.substack.com/p/maximum-vaccination
        
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        November 21, 2021 11:08am
      - JackRabbit
        
        the mistaken injection of the vaccine into a blood vessel rather than a muscle
        
        Benedict,
        
        The idea that an injection into the muscle does not affect the rest of the body is a myth created by the vaccine companies, and spread by the lying media, and runs 180° counter to medical science. It is dis-information.
        
        All sections of the body are connected with connective pathways, blood vessels and lymphatic pathways. otherwise your body simply would not work.
        
        It is just that the blood vessels are smaller in the muscle, but more of them. To the particles in the vaccine however, these blood vessels are the size of the Grand Canyon.
        
        For the Covid vaccine, any vaccine, any drug or injected compund to only stay in the muscle, it would have to immediately form impenetrable barriers or clots, and your muscle tissue would simply die from lack of glucose and oxygen.
        
        If you are still in doubt, I can assure you that most bites from poisonous spiders or snakes are not direct into blood vessels, but they will kill you, paralyze you or put you into anaphylactic shock anyway.
        
        When animal tranquilizer darts are used to capture wild animals, they usually aim for muscle mass. Because although the effect in muscle mass is less initially severe, it still has the same effect.
        
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        November 21, 2021 11:37am
      - mawm
        
        Jack – well said. I must admit I have found this myth spreading throughout the internet. To take your example of snake venoms one step further, these venoms are large complex proteins and take a while to be absorbed hence the reason compression of snake bites help. In the case of mamba venom cardio-respiratory depression occurs in 10’s of minutes. I had one poor fellow where the venom went intravenously into a large vein and he died literally in seconds.
        
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        November 21, 2021 12:44pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  The other country with good statistics of course is Israel. This video appears to be corroborating evidence for the UK stats.
  
  https://twitter.com/EliseiNicole/status/1461441345877389319?s=20
  
  As was always going to be the case, the real evidence can’t be suppressed forever and the modelers now need to vanish into obscurity, or get a crystal ball and a job in a traveling circus somewhere.
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:22am
  - Positan
    
    This video upholds your contentions on Israel – I recommend that everyone view this.
    
    President Trump’s doctor risks everything to expose this ….
    
    https://rumble.com/vp1a8j-breaking-news-presentation-dr.-zelenko-potus-trumps-doctor-just-risked-ever.html
    
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    November 21, 2021 8:30am
- Andrew Worth
  
  There’s also the issue of lumping everyone from age 10 to 59 into the same data, are vaccination rates for those at the top end of that age range higher than the vaccination rates for those at the bottom end, are death rates for those at the top end of the age range normally higher than for those at the bottom?
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:27am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Try this, Andrew.
    
    Children not vaxxed, no obvious excess mortality.
    
    Teens vaxxed, excess mortality.
    
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    November 21, 2021 8:37am
    - Andrew Worth
      
      Comparing 2020 with 2021 in the UK is comparing two years with very different societal conditions, since the start of 2021 the UK has been reeling back social restrictions, lockdowns and other restrictions mean less road deaths, less accidents in general, I know the death rates from accidents in NZ were lower during the lockdowns, I’d expect the same in the UK.
      
      https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-stringency-index?tab=chart&country=~GBR
      
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      November 21, 2021 8:52am
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    I’ve been trying to get my head around that issue of a higher percentage of vaccinated people dying in the UK. The comparison was between people aged 10 to 50 vs people older than 50.
    
    The UK data showed that the death rate per 100,000 people for vaccinated 10 to 50 years old was double that for the unvaccinated.
    
    It was pointed out that the 10-50 year old group had a wider age spread. Would including all those young people have the reverse affect since younger people tend not to die as easily whether valued or not?
    
    I’m confused and welcome anyone clearing this up.
    
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    November 21, 2021 8:42am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Here is one of the best sources of data analysis I have found. This is the most recent report on the UK numbers.
      
      “The vast majority of deaths are in the vaccinated. I will never tire of typing that Corona mortality risk is highly concentrated in the very old and the very sick. Most people—even most 80 year-olds—are not all that likely to die of Corona. If you can get vaccines to the greater part of the oldest and the sickest, your efficacy statistics will look more like those provided by the UKHSA. If you do a bad job of getting vaccines to the oldest and the sickest, you’ll end up with a far greater proportion of deaths in the unvaccinated.”
      
      https://eugyppius.substack.com/p/ukhsa-vaccine-surveillance-week-46
      
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      November 21, 2021 11:13am
- Tony
  
  When the source you link to ends with “I don’t know how to explain this…” then it is clear there is problems with the thinking.
  
  Assuming this is correct, there is no indication in the data provided that the deaths are due to Covid.
  
  Third variables may well be at play that explain the data. For instance, unvaccinated people may be more likely to stay cosseted at home, and thus less likely to be killed in car accidents and the like.
  
  Unless the data is correlated to causes of death it is meaningless.
  
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  November 21, 2021 9:05am
- Northshoredoc
  
  Hard to comment as there’s nowhere to mine the data.
  
  If the data is factual I would suggest the following.
  
  1. Vaccination rate will skew to an older population as does mortality.
  2. Deferred treatment for cancer, heart disease and adverse outcomes of the deferred treatment will also skew towards an older and vaccinated cohort.
  
  Also as a general comment why are you here everyday KK peddling this stuff ?
  
  If you don’t want to vaccinate yourself … fine that’s your prerogative. But you’re unlikely to convince anyone one way or t’other at this stage.
  
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  November 21, 2021 9:13am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Why?
    
    1. I find it interesting stuff. Not really ‘pedaling’ anything, and as you’ll see I am quite open to being challenged.
    
    2. It’s good to lay down artifacts so any subsequent coverup is made more difficult.
    
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    November 21, 2021 9:49am
    - Northshoredoc
      
      ‘2. It’s good to lay down artifacts so any subsequent coverup is made more difficult’
      
      Have you ever considered you might be a tad obsessed ?
      
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      November 21, 2021 10:16am
      - krazykiwi
        
        It’s possible, and I’m quite happy for you to keep pointing that out.
        
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        November 21, 2021 12:07pm
      - Observer of Life
        
        KK: obsess away. I enjoy all the data.. from everyone.
        
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        November 21, 2021 8:37pm
    - lastmanstanding
      
      The MSM and Government are pedalling lies damn lies and statistics. You arent getting the truth you are getting their version of the truth and its but a distant stranger to the actual truth.
      
      Dont believe a word either tells you. They have motivation to lie to you. Both want to frighten the bejesus out of the population and have succeeded.
      I say if they had quarantined the old infirm sick those with co-mobidities and let the young healthy and fit oldies get on with life the real death rate ( including death from other diseases that didnt get treated plus suicides ) would have been less much less.
      The economy would be in better shape long term ( wait until 2022 when the recession hits).
      This was a cold calculated attack on freedom of movement and freedom of association followed by the introduction of ID papers so the State can spy on you 24/7 and control you 24/7. The march of the Socialists/Communists continues.
      
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      November 21, 2021 12:00pm
  - RightNow
    
    I look forward to the posts by krazykiwi and others about this. Some of us seek the truth, and it’s not coming from the media.
    
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    November 21, 2021 10:30am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Here is one of the best links out there.
      
      https://eugyppius.substack.com/
      
      UK Column are also excellent in their reporting and analysis. They get into politics as well as covid related stuff. They have a great series on the Constitution and the implications of attacks on democracy which seem to be happening everywhere around the world. There is a lot of content!!
      
      https://www.ukcolumn.org/series/a-dissidents-guide-to-the-constitution
      
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      November 21, 2021 11:20am
  - mawm
    
    There have been commenters who have expressed their adversity to Covid posts but, in my opinion, this is the most pressing issue we have at the moment. Everybody has their own opinion and discussion helps to find the truth. Politicised “truth” must be examined, and to date has fallen far short. KK and others have posted links that have been factual and illuminating, so I for one will continue to read his posts.
    
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    November 21, 2021 1:18pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Of course that would be case.
  More English adults are vaccinated!!
  
  To quote the oft used phrase.
  There are Statistics and damn lies.
  Take any set of data consider an out come you want, interpret data accordingly.
  
  80 out of a hundred have been double jabbed
  10 out of a hundred have no jabs
  
  lets be generous and say 75% efficacy
  so 25% of 80 = 20
  so 10 unjabbed die
  
  Yep twice as many jabbed die
  l
  
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  November 21, 2021 10:06am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Back of an envelope statistics are worse than useless. That’s been proven after almost 2 years listening to Shaun Hendy and Michael Plank.
    If you’d really like to look at some genuine statistical analysis then I recommend this blog. Someone who has a grasp of complex events and who can apply scientific analysis to the numbers.
    
    https://eugyppius.substack.com/p/vaccine-efficacy-statistics-as-information
    
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    November 21, 2021 10:52am
- rockape
  
  That’s just not true. I suggest you look at official figures. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/de.
  Unvax deaths 850 per 100k fax deaths 26
  
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  November 21, 2021 10:22am
- ABS4EVA
  
  It is all called DEATH BY COINCIDENCE
  
  NOTHING to SEE Here
  
  Don’t ASK Questions
  
  No one has been allowed to ASK Questions
  Before this DEBACLE you DO NOT SERIOUSLY
  
  THINK
  Anyone is going to be able to ASK Questions
  AFTER
  
  Jacinda is PERFECT and OMNIPRESCENT
  
  She and THEY are INFALLIBLE
  
  SHE is a SAINT
  and WE are
  
  TRULY BLESSED to have someone
  to PROTECT us from this
  
  Almost as well as she protects us from Crime
  by Funding the Mongrel MOB
  
  Thank you Jacinda
  
  Thank you LABOUR Party
  
  The GIFT that keeps on Giving
  
  To the MOB
  
  10 6
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  November 21, 2021 10:33am
  - crikey
    
    ABS4EVA: Can you please type your stuff without using interminable capital letters. In standard online practice this is regarded as shouting; I see no need for that in what you write.
    
    17 1
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    November 21, 2021 11:37am
- Ed Snack
  
  Problem for me is that the data is too coarse, too “raw”, to be as useful as it could be. The biggest missing element is any idea of how many people in either category – vaccinated and unvaccinated – who have natural immunity from a previous infection.
  
  If, as is at least likely, a significant proportion of the unvaccinated actually have natural immunity then it is not surprising that more vaccinated people are catching and dying of Covid than the unvaccinated. There should really be four categories, unprotected, naturally immune, vaccinated only, and naturally immune plus vaccinated.
  
  Another confounding factor is that it is likely (but not explicitly identified) that the most vulnerable in each age category are almost certainly vaccinated, and these are the people most likely to have a severe case and to die. The exception being severely ill people who cannot be given the vaccine, but this is probably a very small number.
  
  So there may be quite understandable reasons behind the numbers we can see, but unfortunately the information is not available to know if these suppositions are true.
  
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  November 21, 2021 10:53am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Agree re the categorisations. I predict that double vaxxed people who choose to get off the vaccination hamster wheel will become permanently reclassified as unvaxxed and this will completely screw any serious attempt to assess vaccines efficacy
    
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    November 21, 2021 12:11pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  There is indeed a great deal more to play out. Fauci has been caught so what validity remains?
  https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2021/11/20/the-covid-vaccine-has-caused-a-pandemic/
  
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  November 21, 2021 12:08pm
Warren

Waitangi Tribunal asks Government to stop Settlement amid Inquiry findings.
Is the a case of Andrew Little knows better or is it that Maori think they can get abetter deal from our soft touch Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/11/20/waitangi-tribunal-asks-govt-to-stop-settlement-amid-inquiry-findings/
Who would be surprised if this Government does a u turn over Andrew Little call Jacinda Ardern gives into Maori with her be kind and caring policy at the expense of the taxpayer.
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November 21, 2021 8:00am
mikenmildagain

Happy World Television Day!
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November 21, 2021 8:00am
Captain Mainwaring

So Brian Tamaki was on his last warning for breaching bail conditions. Do it again and you’ll get locked up, they said.
He’s done it again. Will he get locked up?
Nah, too hard for the cotton-wool police.
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November 21, 2021 8:01am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  Given that he’s about the only public figure with the balls to do the right thing, why would you want him locked up? Is it just because he’s “a bloody Maori” or something?
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:03am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Don’t be ridiculous.
    
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    November 21, 2021 9:49am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Doesn’t Ardern break the law too with her use of queenly authority which she does not lawfully have?
  Are land titles in NZ now secure?
  Are the Police passing over their rights to unofficial Ngai Tahu?
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:10am
- Philview
  
  I heard on the radio this morning that the police commissioner has signed a deal with Ngai Tahu to operate in some kind of partnership with the Dunedin police. Maori offenders don’t like police stations, so a new concept will be designed. A properly functioning media would ask hard questions about this but we don’t have that in NZ.
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:13am
  - sooty
    
    Catch and release, haven’t they tryed this before?
    
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    November 21, 2021 10:37am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    What about passing Police powers over to tribal minions like in the Far North where they determine who can enter their territory?
    Citizenship anyone?
    
    22 1
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    November 21, 2021 11:27am
    - Nickc2
      
      Their Territory? [deleted] , NZ is for everybody, regardless of skin colour, facial adornments and tribal association.
      
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      November 21, 2021 2:05pm
- artemisia
  
  Either he will be locked up or some wiggle room will be found.
  
  Next Rotterdam.
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:15am
- KiwiSapper
  
  Yup. More important things to do, such as making Police Stations in Ngai Tahu’s fiefdom more like a Marae so the community can feel comfortable
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:20am
  - Paulus
    
    If it gets going in Dunedin Mahuta will make it for all Aotearoa as she wants.
    
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    November 21, 2021 1:16pm
- Ruahine
  
  He will get charged again is my bet. I am with Brian Tamaki on this. What the bio fascists hate is that his picnics are not the cause of Covid spread as they (Media) claim.
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:51am
  - curry4me
    
    Ruahine: Yeah, he is right on this. No, one couldn’t pay me enough to attend his church. However, an ally need only agree with one on a couple of points.
    
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    November 21, 2021 2:41pm
- crackle
  
  Like him or not a least he’s got the nuts to stand up to to the govt and the draconian measures they’re taking.
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:52am
- Northshoredoc
  
  I have no time for the self styled Apostle Tamaki – but surely the police and justice department have better things to do than photographing peaceful protesters and wasting taxpayer money on arresting and prosecuting Tamaki.
  
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  November 21, 2021 9:17am
  - Okahu
    
    Nope. Rule of law is undermined if contempt of the bench is condoned.
    
    5 18
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    November 21, 2021 10:32am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Rule of law is utterly undermined by unreasonable and foolish laws that fly in the face of evidence.
      
      Breaking unjust rules is not only justified, it is almost compulsory.
      
      17 3
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      November 21, 2021 10:55am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Rule of Law in NZ?
      I perceive we are long past that. Post Modernism, law is what I say it is. A.K.A Dictatorship.
      
      14 3
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      November 21, 2021 11:32am
  - oldfella
    
    NWD: and did Coster again stay in close contact with Poto Williams and keep her up to date re Tamati’s movements? A question a half decent media organisation would be asking.
    But, in Ayteerower…
    
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    November 21, 2021 10:37am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    What about the arrests of those at Ihumatao, Shelly Bay and other unlawful land rights attempts?
    
    They have puckerood NZ real property law with Police help.
    
    16 2
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    November 21, 2021 11:29am
Bridgenag

The propaganda machine was at full strength on Al Jazeera news last night where a presenter determined that there was, in spite of evidence to the contrary by way of drone footage behind her, only a few thousand at a huge protest in Melbourne. She spoke for Oz saying that this had been infiltrated and encouraged by a very few very right wing antivaxxers….. This goes out to the world. Wonder what Cindy’s spin doctors have prepared to negate todays demonstration…….

Hope they don’t employ the gangs to stir up trouble…….
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November 21, 2021 8:02am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The gangs would love to be recognised by Hiya Jacinda and the Queen of the Waikato Mahuta.
  They have already set the health takeover in place. Next water then land.
  
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  November 21, 2021 11:35am
I remember when

While we are increasing being directed to be ‘kind’ and accepting of minorities, etc., are we watching the behaviours that encourage this disappear.
If we believe in accepting minorities where does excluding the unvaccinated from anything fit.
How can our behaviour be ‘kind’ and accepting of minorities when we isolate part of the population because they are being different.
Who is exclusion of entry being ‘kind’ to, the vaccinated or the unvaccinated.
Does being ‘kind’ to yourself count.
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November 21, 2021 8:07am
Chuck Bird

Looking forward to the Groundswell protest starting at The Base at 11 am. Anyone else going?
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November 21, 2021 8:08am
- KiwiSapper
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  “Protest”?
  
  Parking in the main street and turning the radio up loud……………That IS a Clayton’s protest.
  I have more important things to do like putting lard on the cat’s boils.
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:15am
  - Observer of Life
    
    I went. It was excellent. And it was not as you describe Sap. Maybe next time make the effort and stand for something.
    
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    November 21, 2021 8:52pm
    - KiwiSapper
      
      I did attend the first as it was an “event”. However, the advertised agenda for this one, park and turn up the radio?
      That and the list of “approved wording for placards / signs” was of the ‘wet bus ticket” level and left me cold. I’m more into marching, placard waving, flag waving, standing on street corners handing out bumf, screeching at the Labour MP’s Today’s agenda was not. I can only hope that the next agenda will not be so meek and mild.
      
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      November 21, 2021 9:45pm
- Charmaine Hawke
  
  Will be at the Wellington one.
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:16am
- Tricati
  
  Taking our very elderly neighbours to their first protest in Christchurch today – They are truly appalled at the direction NZ is going, like a lot of us.
  Big thanks to Aaron Stark, who organized the event in Christchurch, and please abide by the Groundswell rules as we know our very ‘objective’ MSM (sarc) will be looking for anything to discredit the day.
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:21am
- westernScientest
  
  Im going to the local one, everyone here should get out and join.
  
  Details are here
  
  https://www.motherofallprotests.nz/
  
  31 2
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  November 21, 2021 8:34am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Starts at 1 O’clock in Whangarei.
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:44am
- Okahu
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  What will be the reason for the howl today? The near record dairy payout? The science of methane accounting? The use of dirty coal to dry mlk powder? The dairy sector’s support of the palm oil industry and its replacement of Asian rainforest with a habitat, culture and ecology, destroying monoculture? Perhaps it’s the government securing the best access deal to the UK market in 50 years? Maybe the warm wet spring has produced too much grass or this season’s Ranger range isn’t offering the right chrome details on the top of the line ‘Beast of the road’ edition? Or is it the billion plus dollars the taxpayer has paid because the industry can’t be bothered following bio sanitary regulations?
  
  So much to howl about. Lets hope the AB’s win or things could get ugly.
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:55am
  - pdm
    
    Okahau – The record dairy payment is despite the government not because of anything they have done.
    
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    November 21, 2021 9:44am
    - Okahu
      
      Ahh. The ‘what have the Romans ever done for us?’ argument. Cool.
      
      5 29
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      November 21, 2021 10:18am
      - Ed Snack
        
        You should remember why the whole palm oil scam got started – it was greenie advocates wanting a “naturally” sourced bio-oil as a diesel substitute. Thus the production of palm oil was subsidised and encouraged, with easily foreseeable side effects. Then with this glut of the product, it became cheap enough for others to use the by products.
        
        If you need scapegoats for palm oil issues, the green and environmental (emphasis on the “mental”) movements should be right at the forefront.
        
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        November 21, 2021 10:59am
  - Tomtoddy
    
    You obviously havent had a chunk of your hard property removed by regulation without compensation. Nor apparently have you been threatened with taxes on a gas that is disappearing faster then you can produce it. Maybe you dont face more and more new ill-conceived regulations that erode your profits.
    
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    November 21, 2021 9:58am
    - Okahu
      
      [Deleted – trolling. Grow up. mod.]
      
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      November 21, 2021 10:25am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The dairy farmers are doing very nicely thank you from not having to operate an ecologically sustainable industry. The government’s almost negligible attempts to change that by very small increases in the costs for polluters are naturally upsetting to a class long used to imagining they are entitled to to returns that automatically keep up with inflated land prices.
      
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      November 21, 2021 12:07pm
    - Okahu
      
      You appear to have fallen under the misapprehension the ‘Ute tax’ was targeted at the rural sector. Heads up for you, it’s not a tax on utes (though some will be covered).
      
      Perhaps you could wrap a bow around an e-vehicle for your significant other this Xmas. Might as well enjoy the monster pay out with a well received prezzie and a nod to the future.
      
      Of course if your farm can’t run at a profit if it has to observe evolving environmental regulation you may have problems doing what you’re doing. Or you might have the wrong financial advisor. You only pay tax on profit and given the history of tax ‘management’ by the dairy sector you may be missing a trick. Perhaps these insights from outside your echo chamber will help.
      
      https://amp.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2021/aug/05/new-zealand-farmers-have-avoided-regulation-for-decades-now-their-bill-has-come-due
      
      And more specifically on actual tax paid by the sector responsible for half of all the emissions …
      
      https://baucher.tax/this-week-in-tax-29-march-2019/
      
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      November 21, 2021 12:25pm
- pdm
  
  I will be at Hastings Groundswell.
  
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  November 21, 2021 9:07am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Off to the Putaruru event
  
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  November 21, 2021 9:16am
Southern Raider

A disturbing read about co governance and our future access to great parts of NZ. Paid $2.2M per year, all public access closed, faculties all in major disrepair, and no outcomes for NZ

“Public access is our lowest priority”

Bigger concern is these co governance initiatives should be helping to improve the associated Iwi through employment and skills, but they can’t find anyone to work and DOC aren’t allowed to provide staff. They won’t even let DOC on the land to carry out repairs.

One Great Walk down, many more likely to go.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/300456239/lake-waikaremoana-and-its-great-walk-have-been-closed-for-months-as-thoe-say-the-relationship-with-the-crown-has-failed
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November 21, 2021 8:09am
- Colville
  
  I believe they are not even spending the $2.2mil. They are just doing NOTHING.
  The cant agree on what to do and cant find people to take up a job.
  
  and then at the end of the article one bright spark says they are going to rebuild it all, better and in a different place. FFS.
  
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  November 21, 2021 9:29am
  - Paulus
    
    Its all about Money as usual !
    
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    November 21, 2021 1:19pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Ownership of NZ is vested in ?
  
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  November 21, 2021 11:42am
- Jack5
  
  In the south, we have the Department of Conservation accepting a Ngai Tahu panel to “advise” it on South Island conservation land.
  
  That will include the huge Fiordland National Park, and the other big national parks in the south. You can guess what “advise” means.
  
  Ngai Tahu got their way after threatening to sue on Treaty “co-governance” grounds.
  
  The Ardernists’ growing neo-apartheid beats the South African model by allowing tribes to register as group charities. This enables their businesses to run free of company tax.
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/456096/ngai-tahu-drops-legal-action-after-panel-to-give-feedback-on-doc-land-appointed
  
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  November 21, 2021 11:51am
  - Jack5
    
    I haven’t found any press releases from the Conservation Minister, Kiritapu Allan, on this.
    
    However, in a cave-in to threat of a Treaty legal action, The Minister would have been aware of the department’s action, and it wouldn’t have been done without her implicit approval.
    
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    November 21, 2021 12:20pm
- trout
  
  ‘Co governance’ was always a sham. Tuhoe interprets sharing as ‘ours’. The deterioration of the facilities in the Te Urewera National Park was predictable; iwi regard visitors as an imposition. The tribe gets paid to maintain assets but they take the money and do nothing; and now they want more.
  And they blame visitors for vandalism and damage that (from my experience) is the work of locals. Appalling.
  
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  November 21, 2021 12:56pm
Truman lodge

Govt considering making vaccine certificate invalid after 6 months requiring booster.

Jacinda said boosters shots wouldn’t make your certificate invalid. Well looks like that will probably be the case.

My certificate expires in 7 months. 6 months after Dec 15 opening day. I don’t like where this is heading. I’m actually now thinking there is something else going on.
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November 21, 2021 8:12am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  What have we been telling you for the last year? Stop complying. If you somehow think that just going along to get along is a viable strategy, I’m here to tell you that this will only tighten the grip. All slaves have their compliance in common.
  
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  November 21, 2021 9:37am
  - Inandout
    
    Man, I have thought that all along. Where the fuck is the true NZ spirit of non compliance?
    
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    November 21, 2021 10:11am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      It’s the clearest evidence in a century of what mass psychosis looks like. The narrative is crumbling and the looks of astonishment are increasing. They will be howls of outrage in the not too distant future.
      
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      November 21, 2021 11:25am
- Nickc2
  
  At the rate Auckland is going, our Vax Certs will expire while we are still in Lockdown FFS.
  
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  November 21, 2021 12:39pm
- Observer of Life
  
  Truman: 2 young ones in the family have just downloaded their “Passport”. Very interesting indeed. So we all got our last vaccination mid March, which means we are now basically unvaccinated. Yet their “passport” expires 21 May 2022!!! So it expires 14 months after the last shot. This has clearly got NOTHING to do with the vaccine. It’s BS. I will not be downloading mine. Instead I will use the piece of paper issued to me (via online link) back in September.
  Things are definitely not right with this. It clearly has zip to do with our health.
  
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  November 21, 2021 9:00pm
Yvette

I downloaded my Vaccine Pass yesterday
So, it expires on May 20, 2022 – as does apparently everyone’s Pass: six months after you download it, not from the date of your second injection.

It is widely reporteded that the vaccine wains in efficacy five to six months after the 2nd shot plus two weeks for it to take fully effect.

In my case I was deemed fully vaccinated July 27, 2021.
So 5 months from then will be December 27 and six months January 27, 2022

So my official BEST BY DATE is May 20, 2022
Although, “according to science”, that is five to six months late.

Was it going to be embarrassing to issue Passes for those first vaccinated – earliest were in February, first shot, so fully vaccinated about April 16 – because that was 7 months 4 days ago, and they should have been issued invalid Passes.
So the answer is to invalidate everyone’s Pass?

Is that not just insanely counter-productive?

While most sources seem to still insist the vaccine continues to reduce serious illness, hospitalisation or death, that is for the individual, but the reduced vaccine efficacy makes arguments of community immunity highly inaccurate.

For anyone who had their second vaccine dose on Tuesday, 3 May 2021 or earlier, their Vaccine Pass should display an expired date?

And – Is a wrong BEST BY DATE on every Vaccination Pass issued in New Zealand, a straight-out example of mis-information designated by Ardern’s Government?
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November 21, 2021 8:19am
- Ra Henare
  
  Take a deep breath…Its politics that drives Vacine passports not science. 🙂
  
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  November 21, 2021 10:22am
- Ruawai
  
  Keep applying for your vaccine passport again and again and a new expiry date pops up.
  
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  November 21, 2021 11:31am
I remember when

While not wanting to see any serious loss of life for Maori from Covid – are we (the media and ‘supposed’ experts) getting just a little hysterical.
On Q&A we had a breathless academic portraying a scene of utter devastation.
Surely this hysteria ignores a number of important facts.
The Maori population has an average age under 30, the 65 age group has a good vaccination status.
That before we even consider the relative isolation the more vunerable Maori groups.
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November 21, 2021 8:20am
Gravelroad

Yesterday there was comment on here re political reporter, Luke Malpass’s puff piece for the Labour Party government re their Covid 19 management.
I went back later in the day and saw that there were more than 200 comments on $tuff. Read a good proportion of them and they were heavily in favour of both Mr Malpass and the government – Jacinda saved us, we are so lucky, thank goodness National isn’t in power or we would be sunk, business owners don’t matter – and so on.
If I were a “racist, Trump admiring, anti vaxxer” I might almost think the whole column and subsequent comment love fest had been pre-planned by someone’s media section.
But that couldn’t possibly happen, eh.
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November 21, 2021 8:22am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  It has long been clear that Stuff has cornered the idiots market, both in writers and readers.
  
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  November 21, 2021 10:17am
Tomtoddy

90% now. So what?
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November 21, 2021 8:23am
- krazykiwi
  
  10% of us will now be blamed anytime one of the 90% get the sniffles. Oh, and we’ll be barred from jobs, cafes, restaurants, weddings, workplaces etc.
  
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  November 21, 2021 8:31am
  - MCōs
    
    Playing the victim already.
    
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    November 21, 2021 8:45am
    - krazykiwi
      
      No, just predicting that the same ostracism seen abroad will flourish here.
      
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      November 21, 2021 9:52am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      “Playing”? Segregating and vilifying a minority isn’t a game.
      
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      November 21, 2021 10:21am
    - ISeeRed
      
      It certainly seems like a game to the bullies. They’ll get their comeuppance.
      
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      November 21, 2021 3:12pm
  - Yvette
    
    Krazykiwi, 90% of those eligible is actually 75.6% of the entire population, so the number of those who can be blamed, 24.4%, is more than twice the 10% who you suggest – so there’s some greater safety in numbers.
    
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    November 21, 2021 8:47am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    As you know I am opposed to such restrictions. I have used the analogy of a vaccinated Wellington public servant sitting next to an unvaccinated colleague all week at adjoining desks. There is no vaccine mandate across the Public Service. Yet those two colleagues can’t go to a cafe together for lunch. Can anyone explain how that is logical?
    
    Guessing what will happen next year is impossible. I think the vaccine passes will cause unrest and probably isolated acts of violence. They will be enforced by big events because they will build the vaccine pass into the ticketing process. No problems.
    
    Cafes and bars etc are another thing entirely. How do they check people at the door? I asked my local cafe owner yesterday and she has no idea, yet we are only a few weeks away from this system.
    
    Do you need to scan the QR code when you enter the cafe? With what? If I screenshot my QR code and give it to my unvaccinated friend, does the QR code work? I don’t see why not.
    
    Jacinda was asked about this last week. She said it will be easy. She used the analogy of bars asking for ID to check for under age alcohol purchases. Again she is showing her lack of logic. This is about checking EVERYONE. Also licensed premises train people to spot under age folk and train them in checking. That is entirely different to training the 17 year old waiter at the Happy Breakfast cafe to check the vaccine status of EVERY person who comes through the door. And even more important how to deal with people who are unvaccinated, many of whom will be angry or big or both.
    
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    November 21, 2021 8:54am
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      Everything is incremental, but easily inferred by anyone who is paying attention: they will introduce digital IDs that communicate with a database, that are renewable based on arbitrary compliance, and electronic turnstiles will be installed at all entrances, so it will be impossible to get in without first having an acceptable social credit score. Unless, of course, we refuse to allow this imposition.
      
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      November 21, 2021 9:06am
    - cmm
      
      Well the joke surely has to be the vaccine “passport” that is just a PDF file that you can copy and edit and has no personal identifier (eg. photo).
      
      Comparing that to checking drivers licenses etc is completely ridiculous. If a driver’s license was just a PDF file would the under age check work?
      
      But then we’re talking about someone who equated the CV19 vaccine with MMR, so what should anyone expect?
      
      The purpose of the exercise is only to tick the box of having a vaccination “passport”.
      
      What will be interesting is to see if ours are accepted by foreign countries. Are theirs any different?
      
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      November 21, 2021 9:17am
    - Yvette
      
      Benedict, you are probably aware of –
      Te Pāti Māori slams ‘very white’ vaccine rollout, says Māori not to blame for low vaccination coverage
      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/11/coronavirus-te-pati-maori-slams-very-white-covid-19-vaccine-rollout-says-m-ori-not-to-blame-for-low-vaccination-coverage.html
      
      And considering your comment – “… licensed premises train people to spot under age folk and train them in checking. That is entirely different to training the 17 year old waiter at the Happy Breakfast cafe to check the vaccine status of EVERY person who comes through the door. And even more important how to deal with people who are unvaccinated, many of whom will be angry or big or both.”
      
      So how often will owners have to resort to calling the Police to deal with a Te Pāti Māori inspired but unvaccinated customer? – and those Police officers perhaps being as yet unvaccinated themselves.
      
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      November 21, 2021 9:27am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I can’t be bothered reading the linked article. It will make me a angry.
        
        Any person, especially a Maori person, who walked into a vaccine centre today, would be welcomed with open arms.
        
        A “white” rollout? How do they explain the circa 99 percent Asian vaccination rate? Maybe I should have had a tantrum and asked for some Chinese pork buns with char su sauce with my vaccine.
        
        What exactly do you they want? And what happened to the circa 200 million that was handed out for culturally appropriate vaccine programmes. Whatever that means.
        
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        November 21, 2021 10:01am
      - cmm
        
        One or two squeals about “racial profiling” and most venues will just back down and go through the motions.
        
        There was an old Soviet saying: “They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work.”
        
        Same is going to happen with certificate inspections: They’ll look – not too closely – and everyone will go through the theatre.
        
        It’s the same as drinking in USA with a fake ID. So long as you produce a semi-plausible ID they will go through the motions and everyone is happy: bar gets the business, punter gets the beer.
        
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        November 21, 2021 10:01am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Benedict, we all know where most of that $200M went, to a small group of extremely wealthy well connected Maori, and from them straight into real estate and flash cars.
        
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        November 21, 2021 11:02am
    - Okahu
      
      I believe it’s quite common for police to wander through establishments in Europe ensuring customers have ‘certificates’ and green passes. Bit like a driver’s license check I suppose. Don’t be surprised if that coffee and pie gets a fine and an eviction if you can’t/won’t front with a passport.
      
      But I’m pretty sure those brave and principled anti-vaxers will have the decency and courage of their convictions and confine their outings to the supermarkets and chemists where they can shop and wander at will. I’m sure being as well ‘educated’ as they claim to be they will understand why Socrates drank the hemlock.
      
      Perhaps passports are going to become unnecessary. The un-vaxed will soon become obvious from their bowl cuts and their scowls.
      
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      November 21, 2021 9:47am
      - Man Among the Ruins
        
        “Become unnecessary”? Why are they “necessary” now?
        
        15 1
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        November 21, 2021 10:26am
      - Taieri
        
        I’m sure being as well ‘educated’ as they claim to be they will understand why Socrates drank the hemlock.
        —————-
        
        Xantipa drove him to it. With her enlightened comments…
        
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        November 21, 2021 10:27am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Yes in France there are random police checks on venues and very heavy fines for places that admit the unvaccinated.
        
        So yes there is high compliance in France. And if New Zealand allocates thousands of police here to checking I guess the same will happen here. I can’t see it myself.
        
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        November 21, 2021 10:48am
      - Okahu
        
        Xanthippe Taieri. Had kids so assuredly a woman.
        
        They do say she was a woman who knew her mind. Whether her attitudes played a part in the final and greatest decision of one of history’s most important thinkers is an open question but I would have thought a dangerous assertion. Being a touch misogynistic it will make most sense after a few beers with the boys I suspect. Perhaps one in the pocket for a quiet moment in the post-howl beersies?
        
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        November 21, 2021 11:14am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        You won’t recognise me, after almost 2 years of seeing where this is going our family has managed to get ourselves to a great degree of independence, including the ability to cut hair to a good standard.
        It has been a great lesson in lessening dependency on those who would try to punish you to compliance. The beautiful thing is there will be no going back now that we’ve discovered new freedoms.
        
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        November 21, 2021 11:29am
    - artemisia
      
      Angry, big, both or walk away and take their mates with them.
      
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      November 21, 2021 9:51am
    - Ra Henare
      
      I note that the 3rd world Country Cambodia has a photo associated with their Vaccine passport.
      
      QR code links to same.
      So to enter persons scans your QR code on their phone app. Shows green tick and your photo if you are vaxed.
      
      However…
      They have just opened their borders to fully vaxed tourists.
      Tourists dont have to show passport before dining.
      
      and yes, the pragmatic Cambodians dont bother scanning, however expat owned establishments scan like crazy.
      First group are not scared of police(they need the money) 2nd group are scared of police action.
      
      Fear porn at work again
      
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      November 21, 2021 10:29am
- emmess
  
  Really? According to the international data, only 68% have received two doses
  
  https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
  
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  November 21, 2021 9:11am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    What are you referring to?
    
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    November 21, 2021 10:02am
  - cmm
    
    According to those stats, it is only 41.45% that have received two doses.
    
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    November 21, 2021 10:06am
- Paulus
  
  90% of What figure ?
  The Health Department or the similar Census – they are quite different I understand.
  
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  November 21, 2021 1:22pm
westernScientest

lol look at these ‘far right extremists’

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300459196/covid19-thousands-protest-virus-restrictions-in-vienna-zurich
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November 21, 2021 8:38am
Scooter

Things are ramping up batshit crazy in Europe, I thought we were told once the majority get vacc’d things will improve. Austria seems to be the test case for restrictions ie full lockdown from Mon for all after saying only unvacc’d would lockdown only a week ago then mandatory vaccinations for everyone from 1 Feb. How is that going to work eg for those in mental institutions, homeless. Where I am in Italy Xmas markets have started and while you need a green pass to go into a piazza with afew stalls, it’s not needed for the street along side afew meters away. I’m over Xmas already. Ps the crowds are so big that there’s no way they can check who is vacc’d or not. I hope they #&£Ing come to their senses soon.
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November 21, 2021 8:41am
- Ed Snack
  
  May be misreported, but apparently the police and army in Austria have refused to enforce the new mandates on the unvaccinated. That will be a complete crisis for their fascist government to handle.
  
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  November 21, 2021 11:04am
  - RdM
    
    Austria Rises Against “Health Dictatorship”
    
    https://infodujour.fr/politique/54068-lautriche-se-souleve-contre-la-dictature-sanitaire
    
    Translation:
    
    Police and military refuse to control health passes in the name of “freedom and human dignity.” They will join a large demonstration against compulsory confinement on November 20, 2021 in Vienna.
    
    Only a few days after Austrian Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg decided to confine unvaccinated people, politicians and unions, call for a vast uprising against this freedom-killing measure, unique in the world.
    
    The leader of the Freedom Party (FPÖ) Herbert Kickl, called for a “mega-demonstration” on November 20 in Vienna.
    
    Shortly thereafter, Austrian Armed Forces Union (FGÖ) president Manfred Haidinger followed suit and joined in in a letter published on 14 November. He intends to “defend fundamental rights and freedoms”. The FGÖ specifies that “everyone” is authorized to demonstrate, even in the event of confinement!
    
    The monitoring obligation imposed by Home Secretary Karl Nehammer has already been rejected by the police union. In addition, the Union of Austrian Armed Forces announces that they will participate in this large gathering in Vienna.
    
    The panicked government
    
    It is a resounding slap in the face for the government which, according to Austrian media, is increasingly panicking.
    
    The chairman of the Social Democratic Trade Unions (FSG) and the Police Union, Hermann Greylinger, left no doubt in an interview that the police feel unable to carry out such checks, according to the weekly Wochenblick.
    
    Manfred Haidinger (FGÖ) adds in his letter: “We hereby clarify that participation in assemblies is a particularly protected legal right and that it is also taken into account in the draft ordinance currently available. Participation and travel throughout Austria is permitted. ”
    
    Although unvaccinated people are advised to travel by private transport.
    
    The letter finally recalls that “the ban on a meeting planned by citizens as well as the ban on a gathering of political parties have been declared illegal” by the Vienna Administrative Court.
    
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    November 21, 2021 3:05pm
Durden

What is to say Three Waters won’t face the same problems as the Waikaremoana track. Tuhoe Maori in decision making majority position on the Trust are clashing with government. Demanding more money. And get this, not to repair and maintain the track, but to help Tuhoe “reconnect”

When will this “demanding with menaces” stop?

Only when the Labour Maori Caucus in control of the Government with their current MP numbers get decimated at next election.

No wonder they are trying to railroad as many changes as possible in this term while the public remains distracted with Covid.

Hope God will defend New Zealand from He Puapua.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/slipping-through-the-cracks-altered-miq-vouchers-used-by-desperate-travellers-to-dodge-miq-lottery/44NNCSTUVV7TSJZIATI3CBEDPQ/
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November 21, 2021 8:44am
- KevO'Brien
  
  [Deleted – unhelpful. mod.]
  
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  November 21, 2021 9:02am
- pdm
  
  Nanaia, Willie and Kelvin will make sure Tuhoi get what they want.
  
  Jacinda and Grant cannot afford to resist.
  
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  November 21, 2021 9:10am
- Colville
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300456239/lake-waikaremoana-and-its-great-walk-have-been-closed-for-months-as-thoe-say-the-relationship-with-the-crown-has-failed
  
  Its well worth a read, eye opening.
  
  Tamati Kruger, the TUT chairman, says opening up Te Urewera to the public is “way down the list of priorities” for Tūhoe, as it brings no benefit to the iwi.
  
  So a National park has been handed over to people that dont care if the public ever get in there to use it.
  
  Huts vandalised and burnt. Shit and graffiti everywhere. Pest control not been done in years.
  
  I walked that track with some kids about 4 years ago..must have been just before it was handed over. It was a sign that the firewood supplied to the huts by DOC was dyed PINK so they could tell if people stole it. Yes people would take their boat across the lake to steal a wheel barrow of firewood. This is in a FOREST surrounded by pine forests. But back then the huts were really nice and well maintained.
  
  “Finding people who can live in wilderness, isolated areas for long periods of time without wifi, McDonald’s and quick access to their Toyota Hilux is very, very difficult.”
  
  They wont get off the couch for a job.
  
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  November 21, 2021 9:12am
  - Ed Snack
    
    I went in a similar timeframe. Almost no water in all huts, vermin rife in the Panekiri Bluff hut (rats and mice), but the new track down from the bluff to the second hut was nicely made.
    
    Rest of the track though was pretty substandard for a great walk track though.
    
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    November 21, 2021 11:08am
- Durden
  
  Sorry. Wrong link above. here is the correct link.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300456239/lake-waikaremoana-and-its-great-walk-have-been-closed-for-months-as-thoe-say-the-relationship-with-the-crown-has-failed
  
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  November 21, 2021 9:43am
  - cmm
    
    “Relationship with the crown has failed” = Code for need more koha from the taxpayer.
    
    Is this a metaphor for everything else that is being handed over: other national parks, hospitals, 3 waters,…?
    
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    November 21, 2021 10:12am
- Clyde
  
  The 3 waters fiasco will be pushed through and it is racist in its fundamentals. Mahuta and her cronies have but one objective and that is to push through the policies outlined in He Puapua before they have to face an electorate. If anyone thinks that Ardern will push back on 3 waters or the upcoming “co-governance” in the Local Body Reforms, they are sadly mistaken. Ardern needs these radicalised East Polynesian votes to remain in power, and power is what Ardern really wants.
  
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  November 21, 2021 10:11am
iMP

“Tens of thousands of protesters, many from far-right groups, marched through Vienna…”

How does STUFf know what groups the protestors belong to? Do they ask them all? Presumably if thousands turn up, they belong to all sorts of groups, including Lions and Rotary. Maybe even a rugby club.
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November 21, 2021 8:53am
- Gravelroad
  
  $tuff is paid to know which is a right wing group and which is not – and report accordingly.
  
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  November 21, 2021 9:14am
  - Nickc2
    
    Rather like TV1’s reporting on the Rittenhouse case last night. Their edited version showed a segment with the Judge, and their voice-over completely ignored the fact that the Judge was reprimanding the Prosecution Attorney for using illegal tactics.
    If viewers knew nothing about the case, TV1’s reporting would have led them to believe Rittenhouse was out to shoot Black people, whilst failing to report that the victims of the shooring were in fact Caucasian.
    
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    November 21, 2021 9:57am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Nickc2 – the UK Independent newspaper actually published an article that said “teenager who shot three black men with rifle found not guilty on all charges”.
      
      The mainstream media wonders why trust in them is in the gutter.
      
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      November 21, 2021 10:33am
      - Nickc2
        
        Yes, if you are not prone to fact-checking Newscasts and Blog Comments etc, you can be left with a completly different perspective on life, facts and news rather than how it is.
        IMO, the media and NZ’s MSM in particular should be held accountable for disseminating Fake/Biased News.
        
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        November 21, 2021 12:10pm
- MCōs
  
  Stuff clearly doesn’t have reporters in that location.
  The article was written by Emily Schultheis and Kirsten Grieshaber of Associated Press (AP).
  
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  November 21, 2021 12:05pm
Nookin

Does anyone find that watching Jeff Wilson & co delivering their pontificating inanities is as annoying as watching the Orblax play is depressing?
I hope they prove me wrong but not a good start.
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November 21, 2021 9:09am
- PeeJay
  
  Sure Foster will be able to explain this latest defeat as part of a master plan for world domination. Meanwhile razor starts to wonder if the call will ever come…
  
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  November 21, 2021 10:45am
  - Paulus
    
    If Foster he were in UK Football he would be gone like yesterday – but ……………………….[deleted] !
    
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    November 21, 2021 1:25pm
- amospicton
  
  He’s not as bad as Justin Marshall – last week someone was ‘gravitating away from’.
  
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  November 21, 2021 12:07pm
  - Okahu
    
    Well you can’t see gravity. Perhaps there were a couple of front rowers just off screen?
    
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    November 21, 2021 2:00pm
btb

The reality of our current situation is this. Virtually no one has died from covid. But the closure of diagnostic services and treatment has killed hundreds of people. You will all know someone who had a delayed diagnosis of cancer, in all its forms and other lethal diseases. The complete paralysis of our our medical services was 100% demanded by our government, ministry of health and all the other spineless beureaucrats. They will as usual hide behind mealy mouthed politicians, but make no mistake they are cowards, they are killers. Frontline staff are not to blame they have always been ready to do the job. Our current crop of dilatory officials deserve anger and hate, they should not be allowed to survive. Remember this at the next election. A call to arms to those who still have them. (At the polling booth , not literally ok.)
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November 21, 2021 9:14am
- cmm
  
  “Virtually no one has died from covid.”
  
  We could probably push that further.
  
  Has anyone actually died of CV19 that did not have some comorbidities?
  
  According to the CDC, on average people have had 4 additional conditions listed as causing death.
  
  They say that 5% of deaths list CV19 as the only factor, but that does not mean there were no comorbidities/conditions because issues like VitD deficiency and obesity (other than massive obesity) are unlikely to be listed in death certs.
  
  Obesity is really poorly tracked in death certs. CDC records only 36,000 of 761,000 CV19 related deaths as having obesity as a comorbidity – (less than 5%) . That’s ridiculous because over 40% of the US population is obese with 18% being “severely obese” (BMI 40+).
  
  If these death certs are to be believed, then obesity reduces your chance of dying from CV19 by a factor greater than vaccination!
  
  https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities
  
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  November 21, 2021 10:30am
  - krazykiwi
    
    “Has anyone actually died of CV19 that did not have some comorbidities?”
    
    According to CDC, in my age bracket (50-59) 6% of deaths attributed to Covid involve no know comorbidities
    
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    November 21, 2021 4:57pm
- MCōs
  
  Deaths associated with covid-19 have never been the main issue in NZ, except of course for the families of the departed.
  Hospitalizations are the problem, most of whom are not fully vaccinated.
  Infected people don’t go to hospital unless they need to and once there they just can’t be shoved into a general ward, as you would know.
  People have every right not to be vaccinated, but there are potential consequences.
  Of those hospitalized due to the covid delta outbreak 18/372 were fully vaccinated 14 days before becoming infected.
  
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  November 21, 2021 12:26pm
bono vilfredo

80k plus at Stade de France this morning @jacindaardern
Not a mask in sight.

‘Let’s do this’ ?
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November 21, 2021 9:17am
- Biscuit
  
  bono, on the strength of what I saw in that first half there were precious few All Blacks in sight, too…
  
  But good to see Liverpool ‘did’ the Gunners 4-0 earlier…
  
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  November 21, 2021 9:54am
  - PeeJay
    
    Good coaches improve a team.
    
    Foster, IMO, has never done anything to prove he was a good coach so not exactly a surprise that the AB’s seem a bit listless. IIRC the Chiefs went from fairly average under him to champions under Rennie with pretty much the same team.
    
    See it in so many codes – good coaches can add that something extra – Klopp, Pep and Tuchel in football, Jones, Schmidt and Razor in rugby. You can also see the impact of an average or poor coach on a team – think Ole at Man U.
    
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    November 21, 2021 10:58am
  - pdm
    
    Biscuit I have said many times over the years that no team creates space like a french team on top of their game. Their display in the first half was the best back play in international rugby for 2 or 3 years.
    
    AB’s were lucky not to have 50 plus run up against them.
    
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    November 21, 2021 6:30pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

New drink in bars Kenosha, Wisconsin. ‘The Rittenhouse’ A chaser followed by 3 shots
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November 21, 2021 9:35am
AJL

Interesting article on the spinoff talking about how NZ media landscape changing and potentially becoming more ideological in response to market forces:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/19-11-2021/rip-centrism-why-stuff-is-gradually-moving-left-while-the-herald-inches-right/

Seems a nice balanced view, talking about how things are become more IMBALANCED elsewhere, and sort of… providing context for what forces account for this.
And interesting take, from someone who is familiar with the industry.

I particularly like his semi-scientific experiment of “Can you guess where this headline is from,” where people had 55% accuracy in NZ (little better than chance), and 73% accuracy in Australia.
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November 21, 2021 9:50am
emmess

Neil Oliver knocks it out of the park, again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWN2PV4v0lk
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November 21, 2021 9:51am
- PeeJay
  
  This Austrian move to compulsory vaccination is very concerning, especially as it will most likely trigger a stampede of similar moves by other countries.
  
  I say this as a double vaccinated individual. It was my choice to be vaccinated just likes its other folks choice not to be vaccinated – we all make our choices and thats exactly as it should be.
  
  Regardless of that, I am very uncomfortable with the move to compulsory vaccination, especially when the evidence seems to show that the vaccinations offer marginally better outcomes at best and are obviously not the cure all they are marketed as.
  
  This move to compulsory vaccination should horrify everyone, regardless of your political point of view.
  
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  November 21, 2021 11:13am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Nothing on FB about Joe Biden’s Birthday. I was looking for 81 million happy birthday posts //
19 4
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November 21, 2021 9:51am
- ClanMcleod
  
  They’re probably being posted in. Give it time.
  
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  November 21, 2021 10:36am
Captain Mainwaring

The All Blacks are in the shit. 24-6 to France at half time.
The coach is dusting off his CV.
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November 21, 2021 9:52am
- Maggie Pie
  
  My partner called out… “It’s a game of two halves!”
  
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  November 21, 2021 10:10am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    And the second half wasn’t much better.
    
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    November 21, 2021 10:55am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      TBF…Don’t think you can totally blame the poor coach Capt’n.
      We can lay that at the feet of 4 years of Labor.
      We’re the only country in the world that celebrates LOSERS.
      
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      November 21, 2021 11:09am
- Jade Warrior
  
  Perhaps there’s not much point in preparing his CV. On the basis of this morning’s performance, I don’t think anyone would want to employ Foster as coach of any sporting team.
  
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  November 21, 2021 11:03am
  - PeeJay
    
    except the AB’s who somehow thought giving him a contract through to the ’23 world cup was a great move. He might turn it around and prove us all wrong, but at this time, I think we’d struggle to make the semi’s unless we got the luck of the draw.
    
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    November 21, 2021 11:23am
- BananaLlama
  
  NZRU has alot of rot that set in and now it is beginning to show. They don’t even bother trying to recruit from the Asian community in NZ and last i heard European participation rates had fallen off a cliff. These two groups make up 80% of the country.
  Good luck going up against the Euro countries that will recruit from a larger population pool and can match them size for size.
  
  7 1
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  November 21, 2021 12:06pm
  - PeeJay
    
    Biggest issue for rugby will be dealing with the changes that will have to be brought in after they deal with all the lawsuits over concussion and early onset dementia. I’ve been a fan of rugby since the mid-nineties, and for most countries, it’s been all about the collision for some time now. The size and speed of these guys, basically charging head first into each other, well it’s not really a surprise that this isn’t the smartest thing for long term health.
    
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    November 21, 2021 12:35pm
  - Paulus
    
    The Aotearoa women’s team have not done any better either.
    
    10 2
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    November 21, 2021 1:28pm
    - pdm
      
      Paulus would they beat New Zealands Womenns Team?
      
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      November 21, 2021 6:35pm
Maggie Pie

RACIALLY CHARGED HEALTHCARE

‘If you want proof that Jacinda Ardern’s governmemt is the most RACIST GOVERNMENT in New Zealand’s history, just take a look at the proposed legislation for the new health structure. The Pie Ora (Healty Futures) Bill was sent to select committee, concerns itself with Maori health. Maori are mentioned in most clauses of the legislation. The health of 17% of the population seems to be the only concern of this government’

– Dr Micharl Bassett
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November 21, 2021 9:57am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The govt has already contracted health care out to Waikato Maori.
  https://whakarongorau.nz/telehealth-services
  
  18 2
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  November 21, 2021 11:55am
  - Nickc2
    
    Will protesting about this be declared illegal too?
    As I intimated the other day, the Govt that takes over from this lot is going to have a shit load of Leftist and Racist legislation to overturn. Will they do it?
    AFIK, they have only mentioned overturning 3 Waters legislation so far and the way that legislation is being set up, it may prove more difficult than they think.
    Just imagine, Govt (aka Maori) confiscates Council’s Water Infrastructure, leases it to an overseas interest, receives monies for doing so and along comes a new Govt promising to unpick all that and return these assets to Councils.
    I suspect ensuring court cases bought by Maori interests will not only clog up our Legal System but affected infrastructure will be in need of total replacement before legalities are concluded, not to mention the cost of legal proceedings which will IMO involve Taxpayer footing the bill for all parties.
    
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    November 21, 2021 1:08pm
dime

This all blacks team is very very average. Has been since 2018.

Nzru paying the price for their arrogance in appointing a coach with no track record (as a head coach)

Can’t wait to hear about the hell the all blacks have endured though..

Touring the world for 12 weeks with their best mates, while earning 8-25k a week.

Business class travel with high end hotels of course.
28 3
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November 21, 2021 10:32am
- Fletch
  
  Maybe the vaccine has weakened them all….
  
  9 2
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  November 21, 2021 11:09am
- Littletramp
  
  Not spending a lot on haircuts though. It looks like they got a bulk discount before heading for home.
  If they played as cohesively as they got hair advice, the result may have been different?
  
  15 1
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  November 21, 2021 11:12am
- Nickc2
  
  IMO, NZ Rugby didn’t learn anything from the last World Cup in terms of players, coaching staff or tactics. The rest of the world did and has moved on rapidly. Just look at the ABs recent run of failures, same-old, same-old etc. Don’t get me wrong, there are some brilliant young players in the touring team but they are being let down by over-the-hill one-dimensional teammates and the Blazer Brigade (NZRU).
  Coaching and Tactics have let this touring team down. The next World Cup is scheduled for 2023 and if we don’t have the right Coaching Staff and Players in situe next season, it’s going to result in more defeats for the ABs IMO.
  Let’s face it, there are many in this current team that will be past their use-by date come 2023 and that includes Coaching Staff.
  
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  November 21, 2021 1:26pm
  - MCōs
    
    The “recent run of failures” includes beating Tonga, Fiji twice, Oz three times, one all with RSA, beating Argentina twice, beating Wales, & Italy and losing to Ireland & France.
    That’s 11-3. A whole lot of different captains and nine away games in a row.
    The problem is they won’t be remembered for winning the Rugby Championship, but losing three games.
    The Blackcaps, on the other hand, are remembered for the games the win.
    
    I wonder if Gary Stead has every coached rugby?
    
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    November 21, 2021 2:33pm
    - pdm
      
      No no – not sure Gary Sy-tead is too flash. He inherited a very good team.
      
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      November 21, 2021 6:38pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It’ll be a long two years if people listen to the naysayers.
    Foster has been appointed through to the 2023 RWC. The core of the NZ team for then is already playing. Sure, there will be two or three come forward over the next year and a bit. They are ranked No 2 in the world, need to develop some of their combinations and make some player choices towards the end of 2022 super rugby season.
    Maybe it’s just a Kiwiblog thing to be relentlessly negative about everything.
    
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    November 21, 2021 3:28pm
Maggie Pie

Just heard my partner yelling out…. “Where’s Razor!!”

Always blames me when he can’t find it 🙁
17 3
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November 21, 2021 10:46am
- cmm
  
  Tell him an All Blacks loss really isn’t that bad.
  
  12 3
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  November 21, 2021 11:07am
Truman lodge

I still think Auckland will be locked down over Xmas.. hope I’m wrong though. I think opening hospitality on Dec 1st will give them the excuse when we get 500 cases a day by Dec 15.

It won’t necessarily mean more hospitalizations but someone will test positive at a bar and 100s will have to test etc. If we can leave another option will be lockdown in late January with 2000 cases per day. I think 2022 is going to be hell. Lockdowns and micro lockdowns here and abroad.
20 2
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November 21, 2021 11:10am
- PeeJay
  
  While i think we could see a spike in numbers once auckland opens up, I can’t see her going back on the ‘aucklanders will be able to go on holiday’. While that statement gives her some wiggle room, as do all her statements (just like Jazz – it’s the words you don’t hear!), it would be a pretty big 180 to lock the city down again and I think even her loyal chums (aka the media) would struggle to spin that. I personally think we’ll get rolling lockdowns throughout next year, probably from February onwards, when we will most likely hit 500 a day from mid January onwards (typically 2 weeks after exposure I think) as the numbers inch up and the vaccine proves not to be the silver bullet they were promising. They haven’t invested in ICU capacity, they don’t have the staff, the vaccines start to wear off (and were never 100% effective anyway) and they haven’t looked at alternative treatments which could support or assist their covid strategy. Most of all though, this government does the empathy stuff that works well on the fluffy women mags but is simply incredibly crap at anything complex that requires strategy being married to execution. They are buggered – and I think they know it.
  
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  November 21, 2021 11:32am
Warren

Two teams I have followed as the saying goes since I was knee high to a grasshopper, and both were out of their depth and found wanting, first up was Man U against Watford beaten 4- 1 then comes the All Blacks in France beaten 40-25 and again out classed.
I would be very surprised if one of these Managers or Coaches doesn’t lose their job in the near future ,Ole Gunnar Solskjaer Manager of Manchester United and Ian Foster Coach of the All Blacks as both of these teams standards are lacking with many fans believing neither should be in charge.
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November 21, 2021 11:28am
- PeeJay
  
  Funny thing is i suspect both would be vastly improved with a change of coach. Both teams have good players in there, change of leadership could be all that’s required to improve form.
  
  Same could be said for NZ I guess!
  
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  November 21, 2021 12:27pm
kevn

@Truman… I foresee poll driven, flexi traffic light bewilderment all over NZ.
Plus double digit inflation.
Breaking NZ.
15 1
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November 21, 2021 11:35am
- Truman lodge
  
  Kevn
  
  I predict UBI and central bank accounts..
  
  8 2
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  November 21, 2021 12:45pm
kevn

Will the media show the Groundswell protest?
With any accuracy?
28 3
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November 21, 2021 11:49am
- ByGolly
  
  A token article will appear briefly.
  
  7 2
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  November 21, 2021 2:37pm
- curry4me
  
  kevn: No.
  
  5 2
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  November 21, 2021 3:03pm
lifesgood

If a relative sends you rapid testing kits from England will they be confiscated at the border?
21 1
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November 21, 2021 11:54am
- mawm
  
  Yes, along with any Ivermectin.
  
  12 2
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  November 21, 2021 1:57pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    It’s almost like the witch burning era. Fear and loathing abounds.
    
    5 1
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    November 21, 2021 7:25pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDTeqhpCPE4

Brandon and Cackles Meltdown Over Kyle Rittenhouse.

The usual divisive nonsense from the ‘great healer. They don’t handle losing, well. [6:00. Lets go, Brandon.]
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November 21, 2021 11:57am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3McBetZzhYQ

Taiwan has got its first set of upgraded #F16v Fighter Jets !

Taiwan has officially got its first set of upgraded F-16V fighter jets, the most advanced in its inventory. With this development, Taiwan has become the first Viper operator anywhere in the world to deploy combat-capable F-16Vs. Taiwanese President Tsai Ing Wen was present at Chiayi Air Base in southwest Taiwan to formally declare the resident 4th Tactical Fighter Wing (TFW) fully operational, as the first Republic of China Air Force or ROCAF wing to be armed with F-16Vs. Tsai said the upgrade project showed the strength of Taiwan’s cooperation with the US defense industry. [8:55]
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November 21, 2021 11:58am
thirteenstars

Latest attack on parents from the woke authoritarians: teaching is a science therefore parents have no right to judge the efficacy of teaching methods and curriculum. In fact, they say, parent input harms children.

Keep this in mind because it will be increasingly used to dismiss parental concerns about the direction of education.

And keep in mind this is how they’ve tried to shut down debate on everything from climate change to COVID. They present one set of facts (or half-truths) as if they were the only facts to be considered and establish a pseudo-scientific justification for their political agenda. Then any dissent is condemned as unscientific and since you’re not a scientist you can shut the fuck up, you ignoramus. Just pay your taxes and let your betters spend the money. And be grateful.

Forewarned is forearmed.
24 2
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November 21, 2021 11:59am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  I posted that link yesterday. Sure as heck most teachers are not scientists either. And since pupil achievement correlates best with parent qualities rather than teacher it seems they are not very effective either.
  
  12 1
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  November 21, 2021 2:29pm
  - thirteenstars
    
    I didn’t see your link.
    
    Bottom line, the argument against that bullshit is this: the parents pay the taxes that fund the education system, and so the parents get to call the tune.
    
    The children belong to the parents, not to the state and certainly not to the teachers.
    
    End of story.
    
    6 1
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    November 21, 2021 2:40pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    With which parent ‘qualities’ does student achievement show the closest correlation?
    
    1 6
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    November 21, 2021 3:19pm
Maggie Pie

Wonder if Bishop Brian is considering passing on the Crozier?

‘The Lord Jesus Christ gave his spirit to His Apostles.
They in turn laid their hands on those who should succeed them.’

https://twitter.com/ApostleTamaki
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November 21, 2021 12:00pm
thirteenstars

There’s a new drink in US bars: a Rittenhouse.

A chaser followed by three shots.
13 2
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November 21, 2021 12:03pm
- oldfella
  
  A good wrap of US political cartoons, with a heavy dash of Rittenhouse.
  https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2021/11/the-week-in-pictures-well-acquitted-edition.php
  
  7 1
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  November 21, 2021 12:15pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Obviously stole that one off Steve Otto 😀
  
  10 4
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  November 21, 2021 1:25pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It’s all over FB
    
    6 4
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    November 21, 2021 2:27pm
PeeJay

Mate texts me:
Need urgent help – do you know how to cancel a bid on trademe? I put in a bid on a cowboy outfit. Currently winning bid. Need help to cancel it as I’m now 6 minutes away from owning the NZ Labour Party.

Ba-doom-tish. Thank you very much, I’ll get my coat….
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November 21, 2021 12:23pm
ABS4EVA

I am taking my second Pfizer Jab in a weeks
time under Duress.

The only reason I am taking it is so I DIE (Potentially) the same way as my Family who were sucked in to take it.

I attempted to hold out for NOVAVAX and Failed
I feed as it is my responsibility to Protect them
and I failed in that responsibility I now
must take Pfizer.

The Way My employer dealt with my
Application for work from home extension was
DISHONEST at the least.

Positive Annual Review 9am Thursday
Ultimatum email 10:53pm Friday

With NOVAVAX so close so effective in Trials
and based on Vaccine technology with a 25 year +
Safety track record.

I view the Vaccine Mandate and the people behind it as nothing less than CRIMINALS.

I am changing my WILL to allow a sum to be
assigned to a Lawyer to FIGHT even after I die.

In the Business plan of employers forcing this
they have failed to realise this Mandate

Buys them 6 months if that?

6 months is not a plan

They WILL be in lock down again
within 12 months REGARDLESS

Not much of a Plan Really is it

The Countries with NOVAVAX will thrive
the Countries without it will just have to Wait for it
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November 21, 2021 12:30pm
- jgw739
  
  I am an unvaccinated store manager in the construction supplies industry.
  
  My employer has just completed a (govt mandated) COVID19 risk analysis and as of 1st December, staff that haven’t had two jabs will have to submit to weekly testing. Which will be reviewed in the New Year, depending on what the rules are then.
  
  My area manager wasn’t too happy when I pointed out that I will be spending most of December isolating at home waiting for test results.
  
  The delicious irony is that I am the PCBU on site, responsible for Worksafe enforcement. I won’t be there to implement the vaccine pass madness, but instead will be at home paid on sick leave.
  
  Merry Xmas fuckers. I’ll do my own risk assessments and figure out my options while you field the customer complaints.
  
  6 2
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  November 21, 2021 4:31pm
- ISeeRed
  
  Sorry to hear that, mate. I’m holding out for Novavax too. Ideally Valneva for me.
  
  5 1
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  November 21, 2021 6:00pm
Truman lodge

See the media are getting threats and are frightened. And councillors and MPs need security. Nobody should receive threats of violence. But the media said all we are doing is reporting the truth and facts for kiwis…LOL..
28 3
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November 21, 2021 12:54pm
- sooty
  
  If only!
  
  7 1
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  November 21, 2021 2:43pm
Bridgenag

WOW Nothing to be seen on MSM about the protests
19 3
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November 21, 2021 1:16pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Really?
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300457740/live-hundreds-of-groundswell-farmer-protesters-gridlock-aucklands-queen-st
  
  4 17
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  November 21, 2021 2:03pm
  - rouppe
    
    See, that’s how you disprove something…
    
    Try it more often
    
    3 1
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    November 21, 2021 2:25pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Yeah, it’s usually very easy to counter rants about the ‘MSM’.
      OTOH, anything challenging the Kiwiblog hive mind is often just downticked with no response. That’s just the way it is.
      
      1 5
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      November 21, 2021 6:48pm
  - MCōs
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/groundswell-nzs-mother-of-all-protests-on-rural-sector-concerns-across-new-zealand/HE4APAF2HXGGONVDLDDPGPXOKM/
    
    5 1
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    November 21, 2021 2:47pm
  - Bridgenag
    
    All old photos and rhetoric
    
    1 1
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    November 21, 2021 4:46pm
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    In Whangarei today there were several Km of cars protesting! It was amazing to see how many people turned out to protest.
    
    It was a very peaceful protest with everyone staying in their car and being very aware to prevent problems with other motorists.
    
    There were also a number of people along the route that were brandishing signs in agreement and saying encouraging words.
    
    Maybe the media won’t admit how many people were participating in this peaceful protest but a large number of bystanders would have a better understanding of how the media downplays how many are protesting.
    
    3 1
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    November 21, 2021 9:17pm
- curry4me
  
  Bridgenag: Aha! That means they didn’t happen. Would Pravda 2.0 lie to us?
  
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  November 21, 2021 3:23pm
- jgw739
  
  Looks like they are under strict instruction to minimise it. Clearly no swastikas for them to latch onto this time.
  
  4 2
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  November 21, 2021 4:33pm
ABS4EVA

New Zealand Socialists are

quite a lot like

American New York Socialists

They Promote Socialism and Communism
and all its HORRORS to other Countries
but are yet to experience first hand its HORRORS.

RIP
https://www.garethjones.org/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Duranty

Walter Duranty Awarded for Covering
Communist Crimes

Gareth Jones Murdered by who Jacinda
signed Belt and Roads with

https://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/letter/20210424/pms-belt-and-road-folly/

Most thinking people know they are a sick
and pathetic joke it will just take some more
CCP inspired Labour Doctrine for (non thinking) people to realise it can get worse that is …..?

If Funding the Mongrel Mob is not Bad enough?

It gets worse Much Worse.

Read History and what they are capable of and
What they in fact intend to do.

This Nightmare will not end until SHE is removed from Parliament.
9 2
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November 21, 2021 1:19pm
Maggie Pie

My partner just switched off ‘The DRS’ and came back inside.

He was wondering if Myles Davis and Morag might be an item?
6 4
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November 21, 2021 1:45pm
- marcw
  
  Why does your partner have a Drag Reduction System on? He would need to be in Qatar. Not ever going to work in K Rd.
  
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  November 21, 2021 2:03pm
Truman lodge

The MSM are reporting groundswell.. But only the fact that the extinction rebellion blocked them like hero’s..
20 3
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November 21, 2021 1:56pm
- nathie
  
  Also, from Mike’s Stuff link above:
  
  Some Auckland protesters have strayed from the list of approved slogans focused on farmers concerns distributed by Groundswell organisers, with several cars on Queen St bearing pro Trump MAGA (Make America Great Again) signage.
  – Reporting by George Block
  
  Except their article then shows a photo of two vehicles displaying “Make Ardern Go-away Again” signs!
  
  Duuuuhhhhhh Stuff!
  
  So is that “fake news” or poor reporting or biased reporting from Stuff?
  
  https://images.scribblelive.com/2021/11/21/349d47a2-9abe-449f-8f29-0a6643c24608_800.jpg
  
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  November 21, 2021 2:24pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    ‘MAGA’ signs will almost certainly be associated in viewers minds with Trump, as the small print (missing on some of the signs displayed anyway) will not be read. It’s a stupid sign to use if protestors don’t want to be associated with Trump. Then again, some of them appear to want that association, which must be very puzzling for onlookers.
    At least they weren’t marching proudly behind the Mongrel Mob, like the anti-vaxxers and anti-lockdown crowd Wellington last week.
    
    3 13
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    November 21, 2021 6:58pm
  - Leofric
    
    I was at the Christchurch event. I saw nothing to do with Trump whatsoever, so go figure.
    
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    November 22, 2021 1:36pm
- Leofric
  
  Newshub is trying to conflate Groundswell with far right Trumpophile bogeypeople.
  
  10 1
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  November 21, 2021 4:35pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Was in the protest vehicle convoy round our town today.
  There were as many vehicles this time as in a similar event earlier – possibly more – including a steam traction engine, tractors and trucks large and small. Then utes, tradie vehicles, cars and a young man on a moped.
  On the way along the main road into town there were people standing on the footpaths holding signs saying “toot for farmers”, “Support our growers”, “No Ute tax”, “enough is enough” and “no 3 waters.”
  In the town square where the hundreds of protest vehicles went round several times, there were town people also waving supportive banners.
  The biggest cheer came when a farm vehicle went past with a “Jacinda is out of control” sign on it.
  I saw no signs about anti vax, racism or Trump.
  
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  November 21, 2021 5:25pm
Centrist

Great to see more good numbers for the Groundswell farmers’ protest. Will the government keep bullying and ostracising, or will they listen?
12 1
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November 21, 2021 2:35pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  They ‘listen’ at voting day. Other than that, fuck NZ
  
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  November 21, 2021 6:35pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Only two years till the next vote, Steve.
    
    2 7
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    November 21, 2021 6:52pm
Maggie Pie

Do you get the feeling that a lot of people may have forgotten who was actually responsible for all this Covid-19 sh*t ?

Just saying.
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November 21, 2021 2:47pm
- MCōs
  
  Some bloke from Australia.
  
  2 1
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  November 21, 2021 2:49pm
  - sooty
    
    Helen Clarks covid case frome Fiji.
    That she imported!
    
    1 0
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    November 22, 2021 7:03am
Maggie Pie

And another thing…..

Here’s yet ANOTHER reason why my partner only ever employs the services of ‘Independent Contractors’

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1462234540785778693

SHEESH!!
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November 21, 2021 3:04pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Is that what those kind of women call themselves now?
  
  2 9
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  November 21, 2021 3:12pm
MCōs

This headline caught my eye.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/woman-in-auckland-awarded-25000-after-boss-calls-her-fing-hopeless/PLRR2WHFYM74ZJZEURAN25MULA/
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November 21, 2021 3:49pm
lifesgood

Anyone know where I can find the footage of the Covid press conference where Barry Soper got Jacinda in a petulant tizz? About a week ago I think.
6 3
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November 21, 2021 3:55pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  If it was last Monday’s Post Cab footage your looking for it’s still up here :
  https://www.beehive.govt.nz/feature/post-cabinet-press-conference
  
  There’s also a Hansard transcript as well:
  https://www.beehive.govt.nz/sites/default/files/2021-11/Press%20Conference%2015%20November%202021.pdf
  
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  November 21, 2021 7:11pm
Lee C

An alternative reading of teh ‘vaxxed dying twice as much as te unvaxxed” (although I fail to wee how anyone can die ‘twice as much’ is:

The virus was a hoax.

vaccinations made f**k all difference.

They were going to die anyway.

You’ve been played by big-pharma.
12 4
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November 21, 2021 4:35pm
Maggie Pie

SILLY QUESTION (twitter)

Why on earth would someone want to print out 500 copies of their….
‘My Vaccine Pass’?
11 3
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November 21, 2021 5:24pm
- Ceepar
  
  Entrepreneur?
  
  5 1
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  November 21, 2021 5:34pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  They’ve got 499 customers.
  
  10 3
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  November 21, 2021 5:45pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    But they’ve all got the same persons name & dob.
    
    7 3
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    November 21, 2021 5:49pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      No Photo tho..
      
      how long would it take you to learn a new name and a dob?
      
      11 3
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      November 21, 2021 6:14pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      And they all go to the same bar/cafe at the same time.
      The employee is not going to say ‘that person is sitting over there’
      They will say ‘ what would you like to order?’
      
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      November 21, 2021 6:19pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    On the odd occasion we venture over to a little Indian place on Dominion Rd. Serves the best mild butter chiken and mango kulfi in town.
    Only seats about 40 and they’re run off their feet.
    WE always get a table because of how we treat the staff.
    Can’t imagine Pooh asking some pissed-newt to show him their photo ID.
    
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    November 21, 2021 6:46pm
Fletch

It seems like there are protests going on all over the world, where leaders are becoming increasingly authoritarian. Not sure how it is all going to end. If it isn’t stopped now though, it will be hard to turn back the tide.
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November 21, 2021 6:22pm
Maggie Pie

Every Sunday, 1EWES always finishes with their ‘Good Sorts’ Award.
Tonight’s was probably the MOST deserving we’ve ever seen.

A truly wonderful lady was nominated for taking in all the local stray Cats & Dogs and looking after them in her home.
Even my partner commented she was doing God’s work….you just wouldn’t want her as a neighbor.
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November 21, 2021 7:26pm
ClanMcleod

It’s all good people. Klaus Schwab is going to fix everything for us.

https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/great-narrative-metaverse-dystopian-vision-future/
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November 22, 2021 1:18am

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