General Debate 24 November 2021

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Tony Stuart

Will Stuart Nash apologise for calling Groundswell racist anti-vaxxers? Or will he double down?

It’s coming up in a few minutes on Newstalk ZB!
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November 24, 2021 8:01am
- pdm
  
  He is too thick to apologise.
  
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  November 24, 2021 8:07am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I’m not sure it’s being thick so much pdm as being so far up himself that he refuses to admit he might have made a mistake. He’s still trying to justify his statement because of something one person involved with Groundswell posted on their OWN Facebook page, not that of Groundswell.
    
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    December 24, 2020 8:18am
    - pdm
      
      You are probably right Inv – ego is a big problem for almost all Labour MP’s.
      
      With luck a lot of them will disappear into oblivion in 2023.
      
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      November 24, 2021 8:26am
    - Tricati
      
      Tony, Nash is trying to infer it was the Groundswell facebook page, so more lies from these pricks.
      This, coupled with the ‘Traffic Light’ cock-up and now the article on Pfizer trying to get a meeting with the government 30th June 2020. The lack of action and slow vaccine rollout as a result has lead to the latest lock-downs – Bloody amateurs.
      
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      November 24, 2021 8:34am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        In Parliament, he specifically referred to Groundswell’s website. Now it’s their FB page. What will it be tomorrow, or next week?
        
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        November 24, 2021 8:50am
      - Rich Prick
        
        Probably some random cat photo Tumblr page.
        
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        November 24, 2021 9:02am
    - Gravelroad
      
      @Tony Stuart-
      That has happened in a couple of other instances I know of.
      One person (before the start of the first Groundswell protest) was contacted by the leadership of a NFP org they are a member of, and told to take the protest information flyer off their own, personal FB page.
      Can’t upset the government, or show dissent apparently. You will be punished.
      This is serious.
      Ms Ardern and her authoritarian colleagues should be ashamed that New Zealand citizens now live under such extreme conditions.
      
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      November 24, 2021 8:39am
      - curry4me
        
        Gravelroad: They are ashamed. Well, ashamed of NZ anyway.
        
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        November 24, 2021 10:03am
    - graham
      
      Sadly, not that unusual. I saw somebody advertise the Groundswell protest on a local residents Facebook page, only to be told that they shouldn’t be posting ‘anti-vax’ advertisements.
      
      A little later this person actually went to the extraordinary length of, y’know, checking out the Groundswell website (shame they didn’t do that BEFORE accusing the group of being anti-vax). They proceeded to rant about them being selfish people, mused that they were obviously National or ACT supporters, and finished off by stating that “Trump has a lot to answer for”!! And no, I’m not kidding.
      
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      November 24, 2021 8:50am
      - mawm
        
        It’s a mental illness.
        
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        November 24, 2021 10:29am
      - Nickc2
        
        I heard Stuart Nash on the Hosking Show this morning obfuscating his infantile rant about the Groundswell Protest.
        His well-practiced lines must have kept Cindy’s Media Dept up all night writing the BS script.
        Someone should nominate him for the NZ version of an Acadamy Award.
        
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        November 24, 2021 11:33am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    All he needs to do is read the Jaspinda operations instruction manual – if he can understand it
    
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    November 24, 2021 8:29am
    - pdm
      
      Steve – she has been working on that operations manual since 2017 and hasn’t finished page 1 yet.
      
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      November 24, 2021 9:05am
      - Don Beckett
        
        She’s even struggling to understand the principal instruction manual, Orwell’s “1984”.
        
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        November 24, 2021 11:01am
  - Biscuit
    
    pdm, even Nashie’s hair dye is now rejecting his skull!
    
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    November 24, 2021 9:01am
- rouppe
  
  You know he’ll never apologise for anything, and he hasnt
  
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  November 24, 2021 8:16am
- Raphael
  
  he was tripling down last night.
  
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  November 24, 2021 8:21am
- Bridgenag
  
  He denied he had said it…….I saw the video!
  
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  November 24, 2021 8:25am
Benedict Yu

The confusion and illogical thinking continues.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300461414/covid19-nz-jacinda-ardern-says-vaccine-passes-dont-need-to-be-scanned-ministry-of-health-says-they-do

“The app is a handy tool, but it is not a requirement to operate. You can sight someone’s vaccine pass, and if you have any concerns you can ask for verifier ID,” Ardern said.

” A spokesman for Hipkins later said the Ministry of Health website’s information was based on an “early assumption”.”

I doubt that. The Ministry was simply blind sided by the PM saying that the passes don’t need to be scanned. They will be tearing their hair out. ?

“Hipkins said on Tuesday businesses might be required to scan a certain proportion of vaccine passes to make sure they were legitimate if the Government suspected a large amount of fraud.”
________

Now let’s unpack what both Hipkins and the PM said.

Firstly nobody with a brain spends millions on a QR code scanning functionality only to then say it is ‘optional’.

Secondly, what does the PM mean when she says venues can ask for ‘verifier’ ID? Does that mean my passport or drivers licence? If a cafe owner asked for my ID I would walk out.

Finally, Hipkins says that they may require a certain number of passes to be scanned to detect fraud. That makes no sense either. I take a screen shot of my pass and give it to my friend. It will scan perfectly fine!

I think Hipkins was totally blindsided by the PM and was trying to rescue at least some use of the scanning functionality. ?

Let’s see what the penalty regime is in the Bill next week. Maybe there will be heavy fines if you are discovered using a pass that is not your own. Otherwise every young person attending a concert this summer will have one. ?

It is painfully apparent that Jacinda’s statement that “scanning was optional” was made up on the spot. Venues will now simply not bother scanning. And good on them. With that one statement yesterday she has increased the likelihood that the checking of vaccine passes at venues will become farcical.

I bet there are a lot of people at the Ministry of Health this morning trying to figure out what to do next. ?
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November 24, 2021 8:01am
- Rodney Hide
  
  Very good analysis. The PM clearly “wings” policy to huge cost. I have given up trying to understand the traffic light system. My aged relative locked up in Auckland is utterly confused and distressed by the ever shifting rules.
  
  What incentive is there upon any business (or staff) to be grilling customers about their vaccine status and identity? Do we seriously expect the Police to surround the local cafe and demand papers as a spot check on compliance?
  
  Rodney Hide
  
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  November 24, 2021 8:07am
  - Cinematic
    
    I know my local cafe owner and workers won’t have the slightest interest in doing so. They’ll be focussed on filling the till and providing their usual excellent service.
    
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    November 24, 2021 8:15am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      I suspect we go to the same café, or there is more than one working this business model so that the lights come on next week as well . . .
      
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      November 24, 2021 10:12am
    - mawm
      
      If only every retailer and cafe did just that. We have come to a fork in the road and have to make a choice – servitude or freedom.
      
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      November 24, 2021 10:38am
      - Clownworld
        
        Unlike the Wokehouse!
        
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        November 24, 2021 12:18pm
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      Asking somebody to show papers on arrival is not what I would call good service.
      
      I’ll take my custom somewhere else.
      
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      November 24, 2021 1:34pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Sounds like easy work for the Police. Heaven forbid they investigate a robbery or a trespass
    
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    November 24, 2021 8:22am
    - Nickc2
      
      Heaven forbid they investigate a robbery or a trespass. or attend life-threatening disputes between Housing NZ (KO) tenants and neighbours.
      
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      November 24, 2021 8:38am
      - kowtow
        
        KO is what intervention at those slums gets ya.
        
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        November 24, 2021 1:40pm
  - Yvette
    
    Dear Mr Rodney Hide,
    
    What do you think of the Expiry Date on Vaccine Passes being six months after one downloads the Pass from the Internet, rather than relating in any way to the date of a second vaccine injection ( + two weeks, to allow maximum immunity)
    
    This means a person who has been fully vaccinated three months before another family member, if they download their pass two weeks after the other (later vaccinated) family member, will have a Pass with an Expiry Date two weeks further off than the other family member, while their vaccination is already over half the period of waining or reduction that international media report occurs with the Pfizer vaccination – and is presumably the reason the Vaccination Pass has a bloody Expiry Date on it to start with?
    
    If everyone eligible for vaccination avails themselves of that opportunity, will Jacinda’s Government have accomplished the supreme “millstone” of having organised 4.2 million passes with meaningless arbitrary Expiry Dates, and with likely serious endangerment of millions of citizens?
    
    What do you, Mr Hide, do about this mass Government legally-supported (if it is included in this week’s rushed and unscrutinised legislation) mis-information?
    
    Sincerely,
    With kind regards, Yvette
    
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    November 24, 2021 8:56am
    - Rodney Hide
      
      Dear Yvette
      
      I despair. It is completely outside my experience and understanding. I don’t understand the hysteria, the mishmashed policy, and how any government along with the opposition and media prove so totalitarian in a supposedly open and democratic country.
      
      I have no answers.
      
      For myself, i live more insularly enjoying my family and surroundings ignoring much of the madness of the world other than a regular dip on the interweb to see what the latest incoherent authoritarianism is on display.
      
      I can understand a governement wanting complete control. I don’t understand an opposition and the media and courts playing along.
      
      I am sorry I can’t be of more assistance.
      
      Best
      
      Rodney
      
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      November 24, 2021 11:08am
      - Reid
        
        Rodney exactly precisely the same thing re: the media and the opposition and the courts (and the health authorities) is playing out in just about every Western country, it’s not a NZ-specific problem.
        
        I myself precisely understand it, I know who’s doing it, I know why it’s happening and I know what their end-game is too.
        
        I’m happy to explain it to anyone prepared to listen, but first they have to be prepared to listen, and very few are. Notwithstanding the unfolding before their eyes reality upon which you comment.
        
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        November 24, 2021 12:18pm
      - mawm
        
        Reid you might be interested in https://www.algora.com/Algora_blog/
        and “The Covid Orchestra” from Dr David Martin.
        https://www.bitchute.com/video/dmUKz99Iqlvk/
        
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        November 24, 2021 2:03pm
      - Reid
        
        Thanks mawm, appreciate those. I haven’t been able to find that RFK interview as the Fox channel blocks the Tucker Carlson Today from NZ IP’s, so that’s a win for me straight away.
        
        Most grateful.
        
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        November 24, 2021 2:47pm
      - marcw
        
        Just to reduce the pressure from the tin-foil, Tucker Carlson Tonight is freely available on YouTube. I watch each days episode within hours of it’s US release, and they are all in the archive.
        
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        November 24, 2021 3:09pm
      - Reid
        
        No I get Tucker daily on Fax via Sky mate. It was his extended interviews on that new Fox Online channel that I can’t access. And I never use YT because these days it insists on playing 45 mins of ads which I haven’t yet worked out how to block, my adblockplus don’t cut it.
        
        It would be depressing, if there weren’t so many better alternates out there.
        
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        November 24, 2021 3:41pm
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      Even better, after we reach the arbitrary vaccination rate, we will get some freedom.
      
      It’s called the Red light, exactly how this is more freedom is beyond me.
      
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      November 24, 2021 1:46pm
  - Unity
    
    I too have given up trying to understand the traffic light system. It doesn’t make any sense to my ‘feeble'(?) brain.
    
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    November 24, 2021 10:47am
  - bronny1
    
    Talking to a friend this morning who owns a cafe / bar. It said it’s a shambles….they have multiple entrances and being suburban don’t employ bouncers. He said he can afford neither $50/hour bouncers or a min wage verifier on the door as that is his margin.
    He queried what happens when a group of 15 slightly sloshed people turn up at 10pm, is he supposed to be the police?
    I said sorry mate but my position is that I won’t support this discriminatory law so I won’t be going out while it lasts, he said I wasn’t the first to tell him that.
    
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    November 24, 2021 11:01am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      If a group of slightly sloshed people turn up, he shouldn’t serve them alcohol.
      
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      November 24, 2021 3:08pm
      - Groggy
        
        And they have the capacity to check their ID if they are a bar – so what’s the difference in checking the vaccine pass as well.
        
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        November 24, 2021 3:23pm
- Raphael
  
  at $12,000 for if they catch you accidently in someone who is unvaxxed in, you will have to scan each one to cover you backside.
  
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  November 24, 2021 8:23am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Perhaps Raphael, but in that case the PM should not be saying it is totally optional to scan. Perhaps any lawyers here could comment, but would not the PM’s advice be a reasonable defence in court? I am positive she simply made that up yesterday. So EITHER she will need to back down, or the MoH will need to change all its advice on its website.
    
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    November 24, 2021 8:34am
    - yossarian
      
      The MOH must bend because Jacinda never lies, she told me herself.
      
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      November 24, 2021 8:37am
    - pdm
      
      They will not be scanning mrspdm and I – we are hard copy people.
      
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      November 24, 2021 9:08am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      Interesting you can be fined or charged for being Covid Free without a passport, but it is OK to be infected with Covid but have a valid passport.
      
      Answer: Negative test is the only real answer.
      
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      November 24, 2021 1:52pm
  - rockape
    
    I intend carrying out a social expirament by using my wife’s card but carrying my own. Interesting to see how long before I get caught and if I do I will simply produce my own and say oops sorry, my mistake!
    
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    November 24, 2021 8:52am
    - Random T Person
      
      This is the sort of protest action we should all carry out.
      
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      November 24, 2021 10:25am
  - Groggy
    
    They already face up to $10k for both the server and the venue if they serve alcohol to a minor, so they must already have processes in place. Actually easier to check for the vaccine pass if they can scan it.
    
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    November 24, 2021 3:25pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  ‘trying to figure out what to do next’ They do that all day, every day. No eye deer
  
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  November 24, 2021 8:26am
- emmess
  
  Even though I am double vaxxed, I am going to resist using the pass for as long as I can get away with it .
  
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  November 24, 2021 8:29am
  - Random T Person
    
    You’re far from alone.
    
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    November 24, 2021 10:25am
- krazykiwi
  
  In the Bill? Given this government’s distain for democratic due process I’m surprised there will be one. Certainly won’t be more than a blink of the eye between Bill and Act.
  
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  November 24, 2021 8:45am
- Scott
  
  Benedict – I was talking to a local café owner in the Wairarapa yesterday. He has implemented all of the Covid rules including service to tables and he has found that his business is doing well. People feel safer apparently. So there is a substantial number of New Zealanders who are terrified of Covid and want reassurance that when they go into a café they are “safe”.
  
  So scanning is coming in. There will be scanning and I suspect it will be compulsory. The café owner will be introducing scanning because he wants to keep his staff safe and he wants to keep customers safe. That’s his reasoning.
  
  Next month if you want to organise any sort of event of more than 100 people it will have to be a vacs only event with scanning of everyone who comes in. Or ticketing beforehand with proof of vaccination.
  I don’t like it. But that’s what New Zealanders want. That’s what most New Zealanders want. They voted for this. They have been told by the government to be terrified of Covid and they are.
  
  What New Zealand need is some leaders of courage who can inspire courage in the people. But sadly this Covid dystopia is here to stay at least until the next election.
  
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  November 24, 2021 8:53am
  - Taieri
    
    I don’t like it. But that’s what New Zealanders want. That’s what most New Zealanders want. They voted for this. They have been told by the government to be terrified of Covid and they are.
    ——————
    
    Indeed. George Street in Dunedin this morning – not that many people around but of those that were there, the vast majority wearing face masks.
    
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    November 24, 2021 9:51am
    - Ed Snack
      
      But Dunedin, home of the terminally dim, and Labour stronghold since forever. Basically all left wingers are low info voters.
      
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      November 24, 2021 12:20pm
      - Taieri
        
        Your’s truly and his kith and kin have never voted Labour.
        
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        November 24, 2021 2:36pm
  - Ehlana
    
    Very sad Scott, but I think you’re right. One of the worst things this Government has done is to engender fear out of all proportion to the danger faced in far too many people.
    
    The virus exists, it will not disappear; people will die from it, as they die from other viruses, illnesses and injuries every day of every year.
    
    Fortunately there are some fairly easy steps most people can take to reduce their chances of getting very ill with this virus or many other illnesses. Wash your hands; eat food, not too much & mostly plants; get enough sleep; move every day; sneeze into your elbow; be grateful. That’s what they should have emphasised.
    
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    November 24, 2021 10:14am
    - Taieri
      
      be grateful.
      ———
      
      Grateful? For what?
      
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      November 24, 2021 10:51am
      - Clownworld
        
        Grateful the govt didn’t become totalatarian and strip away freedoms and divide the country and push through socialist globalusts agendas when people were distracted.
        
        Oh wait, as you were…. flag the grateful part.
        
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        November 24, 2021 12:37pm
      - Ehlana
        
        Grateful for what you do have Taieri. It’s nothing to do with the government; the daily practice of gratitude is good for your happiness and health. It improves sleep, boosts immunity and decreases the risk of disease.
        
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        November 24, 2021 1:33pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    So how will scanning keep his staff safe when vaccinated can and do catch and spread covid? A number of people have been asking this question for quite a while now. I’ve yet to see a coherent response.
    
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    November 24, 2021 10:20am
    - mawm
      
      I’ll give you a coherent response. Have you ever watched a sheep dog round up hundreds of sheep and get them to go through a gate without biting one? Those sheep do not know where they are being herded to but never-the-less they go.
      
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      November 24, 2021 10:47am
    - oldfella
      
      CM: So if The Breakers basketball team walks into a cafe and they all show their double vaxx passports, the other patrons know they’re safe from being infected…
      Got it!
      
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      November 24, 2021 10:50am
    - Scott
      
      Clan McLeod – not disagreeing with you. I’m just stating his view. He is a sensible fellow running a good business. But that’s what he thinks.
      
      Essentially the government has told us that we are safe if we are vaccinated and not safe if we are unvaccinated. Furthermore the safe vaccinated people are unsafe in the presence of unvaccinated people. This is what the government has told us and this is what even reasonably sensible people believe.
      The government messaging has been very strong and very persuasive it seems. Sadly.
      
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      November 24, 2021 10:52am
      - less than wise
        
        It called propaganda and we all know where it leads.
        
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        November 24, 2021 12:33pm
      - Hard Cheese
        
        The sensible fellow running a good business will walk into work one day and find out a bunch of his fully vaccinated staff are off sick with Covid. Presumably then the wool will lift from his eyes and he’ll realise he’s been part of a giant scam.
        
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        November 24, 2021 12:34pm
      - Clownworld
        
        Something about “they are sent a powerful delusion and most believe it, even the very elect”. Perhaps this is all part of staging process towards and even greater delusion? Or is this it?
        
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        November 24, 2021 12:41pm
      - kowtow
        
        Govt messaging has been bought paid for and delivered by a complicit media , that’s why we’re in this pickle.
        
        But then we’re supposedly an educated electorate ……
        
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        November 24, 2021 1:03pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The PM rules so passes don’t need to be scanned.
  
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  November 24, 2021 9:48am
  - oldfella
    
    Kev, that woman has so much power, why didn’t she simply banish the virus from the kingdom?
    
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    November 24, 2021 10:51am
  - Rich Prick
    
    Just wait for patrons to start demanding to see other peoples’ certificates. There are folk out there deranged enough.
    
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    November 24, 2021 12:15pm
    - Clownworld
      
      My body my choice….of seat…who sat here last…show me their vac pass…oh and every person who is here now…
      
      All a delusion.
      
      Wait till people click that animals can get it too.
      
      And wait till people click it spreads in air and bog standard fear masks are only for show and useless.
      
      Still easier to believe a lie than change course. Too much to lose.
      
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      November 24, 2021 12:46pm
Biscuit

Who says that ‘Stuff’ is incapable of providing relevant, wholesome and satisfying news, eh?

Sir Bob Jones, in his blog, reports that:

The inside word is that Wellington’s Dominion-Post has surpassed its annual leading the field standard 12% circulation drop and last year lost an extraordinary 19% of subscribers.
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November 24, 2021 8:01am
- pdm
  
  Obviously they will not be repaying their share of the $55m plus to taxpayers any time soon.
  
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  November 24, 2021 8:31am
mikenmildagain

Happy Evolution Day!
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November 24, 2021 8:02am
- Random T Person
  
  Some of us haven’t come down from the trees yet and it shows
  
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  November 24, 2021 8:25am
- I remember when
  
  Did it work?
  
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  November 24, 2021 8:27am
- krazykiwi
  
  Human brains have reduced in size, and function in the last 20 months.
  
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  November 24, 2021 8:38am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I’m sorry to read of your scan result, but let’s hope it’s not part of a wider trend.
    
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    November 24, 2021 8:55am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    In woke-world human brains are specifically excluded from being subject to evolution anyway.
    
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    November 24, 2021 10:36am
  - RightNow
    
    I posit that it’s not the case for all humans and would mainly occur in those that believe their government’s spin.
    
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    November 24, 2021 10:50am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Devolution is what you really mean, and it is working. We are all being dumbed down at all levels
  
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  November 24, 2021 9:36am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    “Are we not men?
    We are Devo”
    
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    November 24, 2021 9:52am
  - Random T Person
    
    Like when, after being incessantly bullied by the government and even your own peers, you go to get vaxxed and are treated like a 5 year old. ‘Well done’ etc as if it is some sort of achievement. Fuck sakes, I am a 45 year old man, I don’t need a lollipop and a smack on the bum. I told the gimp sticking me I didn’t want to be rude, but cut the chit chat and get on with it, thanks.
    
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    November 24, 2021 10:28am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I never got a stamp, but I got a sticker
      
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      November 24, 2021 3:14pm
  - Rich Prick
    
    I’ve never had so many people take such an unwanted and intrusive interest in my health. I wouldn’t want to be having a colonoscopy in this environment.
    
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    November 24, 2021 12:29pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Is that why some have a general anesthetic? So they can put the camera in a different hole?
      
      2 3
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      November 24, 2021 3:16pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Apropos of the St Peter’s Cambridge abuse by teacher story, not a single mention in any MSM report I’ve read or heard that the school is Anglican. It’s just left unmentioned. Most people will assume it’s Catholic.
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November 24, 2021 8:04am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  It is indeed important to understand which brand of god-botherers is responsible for the latest abuse scandal.
  
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  November 24, 2021 8:24am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Typically though Mikey, Anglican Priests are not required to be celibate, so the usual excuse about celibacy being the cause of the offending does not apply. More like being in a position of authority over children, which is why more teachers are involved in child sex scandals than priests. Those however are far less “newsworthy” so don’t make quite the sensational splash that newspapers like.
    
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    November 24, 2021 10:12am
    - kowtow
      
      Too right .
      
      Teacher’s unions are big ,powerful and lefty .
      
      The Media pardy would find it much more natural to attack class enemies , particularly the Taigs , than their own lefty kith and kin .
      
      All part of the Culture wars.
      
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      November 24, 2021 1:08pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Why is it so important for some people to argue a point that teachers generally, rather than teachers who are also priests, are more likely to abuse children in their care?
      It should be obvious by now that any position of trust that allows access to vulnerable young persons will be an attractive career for some persons with evil intent. What distinguishes many situations is the continued involvement of institutions with well-established records of concealing and condoning such behaviour. I would venture to suggest that no institution has such a well-documented history of abuse, and denial of that abuse, as the catholic church.
      
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      November 24, 2021 2:11pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    And …. your comment exactly illustrates my point. Both you & the MSM are happy to sling the mud at the Catholic Church when it suits, but obfuscate, this time by omission, when it doesn’t.
    
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    November 24, 2021 10:54am
  - NoFax
    
    State schools are overwhelming represented in the sexual abuse – by two to one compared to religious schools. So really we should be asking why do atheists abuse kids so much?
    
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    November 24, 2021 12:16pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I think you will find the defining characteristic is residential schools, including the infamous boys’ homes. Please link to the relevant statistics that demonstrate that such abuse is more prevalent in purely secular institutions.
      
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      November 24, 2021 2:13pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  It was nevertheless one of the best academic boys boarding schools in NZ.
  
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  November 24, 2021 9:50am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Yes, it must be remembered that not every boy was abused by predatory teachers over decades.
    
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    November 24, 2021 9:54am
    - Ed Snack
      
      And that’s true of ALL schools, not just religious ones. Despite your religiophobia Mikey.
      
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      November 24, 2021 12:22pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I didn’t mention religion in that comment, Ed, but it’s interesting that you automatically leap on the defensive.
        
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        November 24, 2021 2:19pm
igm

“I bet there are a lot of people at the Ministry of Health this morning trying to figure out what to do next.” ?
Doing what they always do, DomPost crosswords, further adulation of government that rewards them (with taxpayers’ money) to remain compliant, salary increases and no worries about taxation, compliance costs, union interference, or ERA.
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November 24, 2021 8:08am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Don’t forget, it’s Cake Thursday tomorrow!
  
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  November 24, 2021 7:07pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Tell me more!
    
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    November 24, 2021 7:25pm
Maggie Pie

One positive thing to come out of Auckland’s lockdown, has been the cancellation of this year’s Farmer’s Santa Parade.

Heaven knows how many more ‘Darrell Brooks’ are out there.
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November 24, 2021 8:11am
- Biscuit
  
  Maggie, I used to fly up to Auckland every Boxing Day morning for a week-long stay that’d let me take in four days of racing at Ellerslie and two nights of Pacing/Trotting at Alexandra Park.
  
  The trip would also include a journey down Queen St which, in those days, was a bustling thoroughfare.
  
  That ginormous Santa standing on a downtown first floor balcony bothered me even in those days; it’s beckoning finger seeming almost sexually-suggestive.
  
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  November 24, 2021 8:37am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    You ever a Catholic Choir Boy bikkie?
    
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    November 24, 2021 8:43am
    - Biscuit
      
      You made me laugh there, Maggie.
      
      I avoid Churches like the plague … and even now routinely say ‘I’m washing my hair that day’ to wedding invites that involve religion.
      
      Elton John was once asked ‘Were you ever molested as a child?’
      
      Dunno what the interviewer was expecting as an answer but he was floored by Elton’s ‘No, and there I was almost BEGGING to be…’
      
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      November 24, 2021 8:50am
Tony Stuart

Another fantastic scoop from Kate MacNamara at the NZ Herald:

Labour Minister David Clark was sent a key Pfizer letter on June 30 last year, in which the drug company pressed the head of New Zealand’s “vaccine taskforce” to meet and discuss its vaccine candidate.

Taskforce officials, however, were not equipped at the time to begin talks with the drug company, and over six weeks elapsed before a first meeting took place.

The Cabinet finally armed the taskforce with funds both to contract specialist negotiation expertise and to make vaccine purchases on August 10; officials signed a non-disclosure agreement with Pfizer on August 13 and a first meeting with the company took place the following day, on August 14.

Clark, the then Health Minister, refused to answer questions about the letter, including whether he read it at the time and whether he made any effort to hasten the readiness of the taskforce to begin meetings and negotiations with the drug company.

Clark was beset by calls to quit his post at the time the Pfizer letter arrived and he resigned as Health Minister two days later, on July 2. An upcoming election, then scheduled for September 19, added sensitivity to Clark’s predicament.

He had twice contravened his Government’s own lockdown rules or advice, and he had appeared to deny even partial responsibility for deficiencies in the managed isolation system at the border. Contentiously, he had pinned blame squarely on his director-general of health, Dr Ashley Bloomfield.

Clark’s press secretary, Sam Farrell, said Clark, now reinstated to the Cabinet with four portfolios, including Commerce and Consumer Affairs, will not answer questions about the Pfizer letter because, “[he] no longer has ministerial responsibility for the health portfolio …”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/covid-19-delta-outbreak-did-scandal-mired-former-health-minister-david-clark-ignore-pfizers-vaccine-meeting-request/TQHIFLYAWVUD7OZYB5Y6H6IXKM/

David Clark may no longer be Minister of Health, and in fact probably wouldn’t have been Minister of Health has Jacinda Ardern sacked him immediately on learning he had broken the lockdown rules he helped to draft. To refuse to comment because he no longer has responsibility is an absolute cop-out. It was his inaction that was instrumental in New Zealand’s vaccine rollout being delayed.

Ardern should have sent Clark on a one-way trip to the back bench when she relieved him of the Health portfolio. His ineptitude has come back to bite her on the bum. And the timing couldn’t be worse either; Labour is rapidly losing support, and more bad news is the last thing she needs.

She can’t just sweep this under her Ninth Floor office carpet either; there’s so much already swept under there that the bulge can no longer be concealed. It’s time for the Prime Minister to take David Clark off Cabinet life support, and acknowledge that Clark, a Minister serving at her pleasure, let New Zealand down badly.
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November 24, 2021 8:11am
- Biscuit
  
  Tony, I was amused the other day to have the misfortune, for the first time in months, to see/hear said David Clark on TV…
  
  He’s clearly very insecure in the new portfolios he’s (ir)responsible for…
  
  The entire interview comprised him reading off a clipboard that either he had pre-prepared for himself or, my thinking, bearing a ‘USE THESE ANSWERS’ spreadsheet that had been thrust at him, menacingly, by one of St Jacinda’s minions.
  
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  November 24, 2021 8:28am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Just imagine Clack being released into the Private Sector. Who would employ him?
  
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  November 24, 2021 8:33am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    IIRC he was once employed by The Treasury. Not the private sector, but I would have thought that there was competition to be employed there? maybe not 🙁
    
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    November 24, 2021 8:35am
    - Jade Warrior
      
      If he ever worked at Treasury then I hope for their sake he was doing nothing more than buffering the floors, cleaning the staff kitchens and emptying the waste paper bins. If he was actually involved in making any decisions about the use of public money then who knows what other skeletons might be about to emerge from that closet?
      
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      November 24, 2021 8:52am
    - pdm
      
      Maybe he organised the bike rides.
      
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      November 24, 2021 9:13am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Yes, but that was BEFORE he became an MP and subsequently a Minister of the Crown (he was already a Minister of Religion!), and realised how much he could get away with!
      
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      November 24, 2021 10:34am
    - Paulus
      
      Isn’t his correct title from whence he became a Labour MP –
      The Very Reverend Doctor David Clark .
      Will the Church have him back ?
      
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      November 24, 2021 1:25pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Gloriavale probably. His PhD is in religion of some sort isn’t it?
    
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    November 24, 2021 8:51am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    We would employ Clark, but it would be in our warehouse picking and packing orders. He would probably muck those up too though.
    
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    November 24, 2021 9:29am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    My typo, not trying to be funny.
    
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    November 24, 2021 9:38am
    - Gravelroad
      
      Clack?
      I thought that was very innovative.
      
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      November 24, 2021 10:34am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Who would any employ any Labour MP?
    
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    November 24, 2021 10:44am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      We, the taxpayer, do.
      
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      November 24, 2021 1:05pm
- RoboRob
  
  Hard to dismiss a minister for leaving things to the last minute when that is Labours position on every issue. Announce at the last minute and then rush the required law and tech through (i.e. traffic lights, vax booking system). Sometimes the ministry involved doesn’t find out until it hears it in the media (i.e.MIQ testing policy, police border controls).
  
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  November 24, 2021 9:12am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  I’m sure Clark is guilty of many things, but if he was sacked two days after getting the letter, how is he responsible for the six weeks of inaction? Surely his replacement Hipkins is to blame for that.
  
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  November 24, 2021 9:20am
  - alex Masterley
    
    At the very least the Pfiser letter should have been circulated to interested ministers immediately on recipeept.
    It should also have been given to Hipkins in the breifing materials he would have received on his appointment.
    
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    November 24, 2021 10:14am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I Have seen a Pfiser contract. They are all lawyered up. I fully expect that no Labour Minister would be able to deal with any of their documents–they use 500 words when 5 would do.
      
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      November 24, 2021 10:50am
- Tricati
  
  This an absolute disgrace, and if it has led to an unnecessary lock-down and business failures, then it should be the lead story on every MSM outlet for days/weeks. When you go over all the governments announcements over vaccine rollout, there seems to be pattern of bullshit that hopefully is being unraveled. Any bets on a reporter, other than Barry Soper, asking Ardern about this at her next press conference.
  
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  November 24, 2021 9:29am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Brandon to release 50 million barrels of oil.
Yup, that will work, the US uses 18 million barrels a day.
Sounds like something Labour would do.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/nov/23/us-release-50-million-barrels-oil-ease-energy-cost/
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November 24, 2021 8:13am
- Master Mariner
  
  Yes , Been following this and nothing more than a token jester.
  Outcome, Oil prices went up.
  
  https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Oil-Prices-Rally-After-US-Announces-Strategic-Reserve-Release.html
  
  And reality regarding further output,
  
  https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/us-wants-more-oil-opec-cant-turn-tap-much-harder-2021-11-23/
  
  It really says it all for NZ position on “Nuclear Moment” and not too mention the likes of Marsden Point etc.
  
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  November 24, 2021 8:23am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Once again, proof that the left just know nothing about number comprehension, and they think we don’t know either
    
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    November 24, 2021 9:21am
- Unity
  
  Do you mean Biden?!!
  
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  November 24, 2021 10:53am
  - rangitoto
    
    “Let’s go Brandon”.
    
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    November 24, 2021 12:16pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Whoever, let’s go !
    
    It does just show what a complete and utter clusterfuck this current Us administration is. If they deliberately set out to impoverish and weaken the US as a nation, just what would they do differently ?
    
    They say cheats never prosper, but in this case the cheats are making money like bandits, it’s just the country as a whole that isn’t prospering.
    
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    November 24, 2021 12:25pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    LGBFJB
    
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    November 24, 2021 1:52pm
I remember when

Great news, Greg Foran states that no-one is missing out on MIQ – after Air New Zealand cancels 1000 flights!
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November 24, 2021 8:15am
Simon

@SimeonBrownMP has been shopping around the story about ‘city crime’ to argue for more Police. Again, mate, you’re welcome on these mean streets anytime if you want to actually see what you’re talking about.

We’re building a community response. Watch this space.

https://twitter.com/_chloeswarbrick/status/1462595715528417280

A community response. Karl Rittenhouse style??

Auckland CBD is a mess. In the twitter thread Swarbrick gets taken apart. She is an empty vessel.
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November 24, 2021 8:20am
Nickc2

So Cindy effed up on the Covid Vax Cert scanning requirement eh.
If there is an upsurge in Covid cases as a result of scanning regulation breaches resulting in further lockdowns, business failures and national debt, will Cindy and her mob resign and hand over Govt to the adults?
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November 24, 2021 8:20am
- kowtow
  
  No and the Media pardy will still cover for her.
  
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  November 24, 2021 9:02am
- Yvette
  
  “The app is a handy tool, but it is not a requirement to operate. You can sight someone’s vaccine pass, and if you have any concerns you can ask for verifier ID,” Ardern said.
  As in defining “hate speech”, Jacinda said “When you see it, you know it”
  We can also reveal as a consequence, Arden is talking to Green co-leader Marama Davidson about any unfortunate “profiling” [1]
  
  [1] Like “SVU” disclaimer “The above story is fictional and does not depict any actual person or event”
  
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  November 24, 2021 9:21am
- ClanMcleod
  
  There will undoubtedly be an upsurge in covid cases but it will be nothing to do with breaches of any regulations. An article in the Horrid today clearly shows why. Quoting a nurse (married to a doctor) who expressed concern that people could use other peoples’ certificates, she said how her husband and herself were jabbed in April. She was concerned that the jab was “waning a little”. It is shocking that she doesn’t understand that by this point in time her jab is worse than useless. Yet these medical professionals will be able to download a “vaccine certificate” that will have 6 months before expiry from today. This nurse and her doctor husband will be government sanctioned super spreaders.
  
  The insanity of the current situation is beyond comprehension.
  
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  November 24, 2021 10:32am
  - Nickc2
    
    Yes, we can put it all down to Cindy’s Cabinet and herself all being 10th Dan Black Belts in stupidy, obstinance and bullshit.
    
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    November 24, 2021 10:48am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Why aren’t the legal profession attacking it?
    
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    November 24, 2021 10:53am
Simon

He died after a short illness due to coincidence.
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November 24, 2021 8:20am
I remember when

The traffic light system, the use of science or the science of persuading people to get vaccinated.
How can covid cases be reduced by limiting the number of unvaccinated at a night club.
Is it protecting those unable to be vaccinated, the protectrion of children or the protection of elderly family members.
Or, is it punishing those who have let Jacinda and Labour down.
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November 24, 2021 8:22am
krazykiwi

The Memorial at the Concentration Camp Buchenwald in Germany recently reopened its gates (no pun intended) to visitors. Inside, the “Permanent Exhibition on Exclusion and Violence” can only be accessed by the vaxxed. Unvaxxed are excluded. Go figure.
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November 24, 2021 8:35am
- yossarian
  
  Wow, people just don’t see the irony!
  
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  November 24, 2021 8:40am
- kowtow
  
  Jonathan Sumption’s latest in the UK Daily Telegraph.
  
  heading .
  Europe’s latest lockdowns set a dangerous precedent.
  
  highlights;
  
  Basic norms of civilised society giving way to panic.
  
  If lockdowns , forced closures of businesses & other brutal countermeasures work ,why are these countries on their 5 th wave and their 3 rd and 4 th lockdowns.
  
  Politicians blame others for the bankruptcy of their own policies.
  
  Moral dimension forgotten. Approach to the pandemic as a purely technical issue of public health management , when it is a complex economic social and political issue as well.
  
  The absence of moral scruple in pursuit of what is thought to be a public good is the first symptom of totalitarianism.
  
  The rest of us should look on and note how easily liberal democracy can be subverted by fear.
  
  Note He’s an historian and former judge on the UK Supreme Court.
  
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  November 24, 2021 9:55am
Truman lodge

Does anyone know the status of masks in the traffic light system? Because If only double jabbed are allowed into bars. Or bars and restraunts that require it, do staff have to work all night wearing masks?

I can’t think of anything more dehumanising. Everyone dining at spqr for example is double jabbed including staff. Yet are staffed expected to mask up serving customers for 9 hours? It just feels and looks bizarre.
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November 24, 2021 8:39am
- westernScientest
  
  You can read about the Cluster F* here:
  
  https://covid19.govt.nz/alert-levels-and-updates/traffic-light-system/
  
  in short, some times but not always, and is likely to change when cindys says something dumb
  
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  November 24, 2021 10:12am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Everything she says is dumb.
    
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    November 24, 2021 11:23am
- Ehlana
  
  At red level: Face coverings will be mandatory on flights, public transport, in taxis, retail, public venues, and recommended whenever leaving the house.
  
  So not mandatory in hospitality, but recommended. If they’re using vaccination certificates, hospitality is just limited to 100 people with 1m spacing. You can’t eat or drink with a mask on and will look silly taking it on and off all night. So frankly, I can’t see why the server needs to wear one either.
  
  I guess it was beyond this government to say “1m spacing required” and let the size of the venue dictate the number of people it held…
  
  More details on traffic lights here: https://covid19.govt.nz/alert-levels-and-updates/traffic-light-system/
  
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  November 24, 2021 10:22am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Wearing a mask to enter a restaurant and then taking it off to eat or drink, then put it on to go to the toilet or when leaving is deranged behaviour.
    It’s like someone arriving at your restaurant and you tell them no smoking permitted, but when you get to your table you are allowed to smoke. But when you are leaving or going to the toilet you aren’t allowed to smoke again.
    
    This virus is spread by aerosol. This whole situation is Kafkaesque in it’s insanity. I still pinch myself regularly trying to wake up from the nightmare.
    
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    November 24, 2021 10:37am
- Fletch
  
  Yes, staff will have to wear masks in hospitality all shift. And yes it is weird when customers don’t have to, considering staff can’t work at an establishment that requires vaccination unless they themselves are vaccinated as well.
  
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  November 24, 2021 10:36am
- Nickc2
  
  and if staff wear glasses, they sure as hell won’t want to be clearing their glasses of fog for 9 hours at a time.
  
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  November 24, 2021 10:53am
- Raphael
  
  I’m trying to figure out how it applies to the partly vaxed.
  They have the details for staff (have to have had first shot by 1st Dec, fully by 15 Jan.)
  But what about customers etc? My kids who are old enough to be vaxed will still be only partially vaxed by the 3rd, so can’t get a C19 passport.
  
  There is a not insignificant chuck of the population who will be caught in that limbo period.
  
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  November 24, 2021 1:21pm
Maggie Pie

Watched that harrowing ‘Cold Case’ program on tv1 last night.
About the horrific rape and murder of little 6yo Alicia O’Reilly in her Avondale home back in the 1980’s.
Long lost evidence, believed to be a pubic hair found in baby Alicia’s groin area, was finally sent for DNA analysis.
Results indicated it was of…. ‘Melanesian origin’.

To be honest, neither me or my partner knew where that was, so I googled it.
Turns out it’s not an actual country, but the word Melanesia derives from the Greek, meaning…. ‘islands of black people’

To think he may still be walking among you 🙁
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November 24, 2021 8:40am
- Tony Stuart
  
  If the “owner” of the pubic hair is on the country’s DNA database, they’ll probably nail him, but if he’s never been tested, Alicia’s murder is likely to remain unsolved.
  
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  November 24, 2021 8:57am
  - sooty
    
    Yes, but one of his family members may have been for their sins. They may still get him. What other crimes were committed since by him?
    
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    November 24, 2021 9:54am
  - marcw
    
    Forensic analysis of ancestral DNA can now lead to identification of criminals whose DNA profile has never been collected for the Police database. It is compared by new technologies to the profiles stored in public genealogy data, for example, in Ancestry.com, and the family if it has been tested in these public sources, can be identified and traced. Subsequent analysis can identify individuals for further testing and probable criminal conviction.
    
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    November 24, 2021 10:38am
- skyblue
  
  I lived off Canal Rd at the time as a 14 year old. I was also doing a paper run for the NZ Herald that morning. Never saw anything but the police did go door to door on the Saturday onwards. A horrific time for the local people. Hopefully they can match the DNA, a half/quarter match could suffice to get the perp.
  There were rumours running around it was a bit of a sex house.
  
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  November 24, 2021 9:51am
I remember when

So the Vaccination Passport System is unable to let two people use the same email address.
Who could have seen that happening?
Never mind your mistake ring 0800 number.
Went into System and got your Vaccination Certification when you thought you got your Vaccination Passport.
Okay. Let’s get the Passport.
Oops.
Somehow you now seem to need to remember a password you don’t remember supplying.
Never mind your mistake ring 0800 number.
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November 24, 2021 8:42am
- KevO'Brien
  
  What other basic errors will be included?
  Many programmers are bereft of common sense. I have known them to rewrite a whole program module when a simple change in a line of code would have fixed it. The best coders are frequently very narrow minded and follow instructions absolutely.
  
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  November 24, 2021 11:01am
  - Ra Henare
    
    Ah modern people who call themselves programmers…
    
    Perhasp they suffered a problem I encountered in the early 70’s. Was given a task to have NATO parts printouts now coming out 6 lines and a space, from 5 lines and a space. (Save paper as reports were 700 pages long)
    
    Couldn’t work out the logic used by original programmer. He couldn’t remember what he wrote and also couldn’t come up with a simple fix.
    
    I rewrote the 15 line COBOL module…
    
    Then 6 months later added code to produce reports on Microfiche 🙂
    
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    November 24, 2021 11:26am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It is stupid. My partner and I have one email address for all email. Once I had used it for my Cert, I had to create another email for her to get a Cert.
  The 0800 number is a joke. This Govt is a joke.
  
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  November 24, 2021 2:12pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Is the responding data centre actually in NZ? Have they contracted it out to a Waikato tribal entity as they have evidently done with covid jabs? Is Mahuta getting a commission or other reward?
    
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    November 24, 2021 5:06pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Clever marketing for Christmas shopping?
2 x .99c Stores
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November 24, 2021 8:43am
raven

If politicians actually cared about people, they would listen to the science, keep themselves informed, and change the rules in light of facts.

From the last paragraph of the Abstract published in the scientific journal ‘Circulation’:

“We conclude that the mRNA vacs dramatically increase inflammation on the endothelium and T cell infiltration of cardiac muscle and may account for the observations of increased thrombosis, cardiomyopathy, and other vascular events following vaccination.”

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712
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November 24, 2021 8:43am
- kowtow
  
  Fit young healthy folk should not be forced to take these experimental treatments.
  
  Only the vulnerable need be offered them , and then be free to choose.
  
  We live in very draconian , authoritarian , immoral times.
  
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  November 24, 2021 9:09am
  - mawm
    
    Its the increase in Acute Coronary Syndromes (heart attacks) that worry me. My brother had no risk factors but had one following his 2nd dose, and thanks to a very alert paramedic and a stent is still alive.
    
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    November 24, 2021 2:20pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      So the vax exposed a condition but not caused the need for a stent?
      Serious – I have had a shitload of chest pain after each dose, but have no heart problems according to 3 hospital visits
      
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      November 24, 2021 3:35pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Evidence pollutes the low-resolution dogma that politicians crave. Do not think, read or research. We will tell you what is true, and how you must act on that truth. It is dark-ages stuff, passed off as 21st century societal cohesiveness.
  
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  November 24, 2021 9:11am
- Ed Snack
  
  Isn’t it also true though that both the other two commonly used “vaccines” in western countries, AZ and J&J have similar issues ? And both of those use a modified Adeno virus that expresses the S protein rather than mRNA. It seems that the presence of the S protein itself, in original or modified form, is responsible for these issues.
  
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  November 24, 2021 10:15am
  - burt
    
    Ed
    
    Yes, other vaccines that cause our bodies to produce the pathogen also cause issues. I guess this is why traditionally we test vaccines over time with control groups rather than rapidly mass mandate them.
    
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    November 24, 2021 12:26pm
  - raven
    
    Ed, yes, it seems the Spike Protein is the cause of problems. Check out the Dr Chetty video I linked further down.
    
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    November 24, 2021 12:31pm
Mrs_Right

The Covid vaccination rates among pregnant women obviously aren’t that great as they have a new ad on TV targeting pregnant women. Couldn’t help but notice the woman in the ad say “pregnant people”.

Whatever happened to following science?! Lets not change the terminology for the 0.01% of population who are confused about their gender.
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November 24, 2021 8:44am
- Raphael
  
  you only “follow the science” if it fits the current Wokeist talking point.
  
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  November 24, 2021 10:11am
- mawm
  
  Something is not right in Scotland as they have a huge increase in the number of infants less than 4 weeks old dying.
  https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/11/23/they-said-vaccines-were-safe-for-pregnant-women-now-this-happens/
  
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  November 24, 2021 4:37pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Their parents are consumers of Sturgeon’s (as in Nicola) Roe.
    
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    November 24, 2021 9:03pm
dime

If Biden knew where he was, this Brandon thing would really piss him off.
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November 24, 2021 8:58am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  He thinks Brandon is the new POTUS
  
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  November 24, 2021 2:14pm
Raphael

Arguing with someone on Facebook about medical sector mandates. they trot out the think of the Children line. I say that the fully vaccinated nurse can still spread C19 to my kid and it’s not likely my kid will die of C19. He trots out the thousands of kids have died line, and posts a link to the WHO stats and again, we have to think of the children. Looking at his stats, more than 17 million kids have had C19, 11,700 have dies (0.066%). I point out that this means there is a survivability of 99.94%. And suddenly I am heartless and want my kids to die because I think there is more risk in them crossing the road to get to school.

The levels of Fear the Media and Labour have drummed into people is scary.
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November 24, 2021 9:01am
- Mrs_Right
  
  And in 99% of those cases the kids are morbidly obese with underlying health issues.
  
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  November 24, 2021 9:10am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Children are a tool of the rabid left
  
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  November 24, 2021 9:24am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    “Won’t someone think of the children” is called pedophastry
    
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    November 24, 2021 10:46am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Greta
      
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      November 24, 2021 2:16pm
- surfing
  
  Mortality rates in a group of 17 million kids is non zero anyway, with or without covid….
  
  Child covid mortality figures could be lower than ‘kids killed by sharks’.
  
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  November 24, 2021 9:28am
- Aquataur
  
  And according to the CDC, those children that do die have an average of 2.3 co-morbidities – so not the healthiest of specimens
  
  In the UK, 5 healthy children (under 16) have died of Covid (meaning died within 28 days of testing positive, so may have been murdered) or about 1 in a million. So 99.9999 chance of survival.
  
  The vaccine is far more of a risk !!
  
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  November 24, 2021 10:14am
- mandk
  
  The 11,700 number means nothing, although I’m sure you already know that.
  
  WHO counts any death from any cause within 28 days of a COVID infection as a COVID death.
  
  Given how precarious life is for children in many parts of the world, many of the 11,700 will actually have died of malnutrition, infection, disease or trauma.
  
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  November 24, 2021 10:40am
- ClanMcleod
  
  You should very much enjoy reading this. It needs to be spread far and wide.
  
  “a pandemic so bad, that if we stop telling you about it all the time, you’ll stop noticing it –
  mistaking fear mongering for public health”
  
  https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/a-pandemic-so-bad-that-if-we-stop
  
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  November 24, 2021 10:42am
  - bronny1
    
    Brilliant piece!
    
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    November 24, 2021 11:28am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    So dangerous you have to be tested to see if you have it. Yes or no, you still need to be vaccinated so you can pass it on if you get it.
    Logic is wonderful
    
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    November 24, 2021 2:21pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  In the UK death rates for otherwise healthy kids with covid have been less than 1 in a million. Most are unaware they have even caught it, a very few get sick and hospitalized (we tend to over-react when it comes to kids getting sick), but almost without fail they recover. Almost all that die have serious comorbidities and it is those kids who should be treated as special cases for vaccination, masks, lockdowns etc – leave the rest alone Covid is less dangerous than walking to school for them.
  
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  November 24, 2021 10:44am
ABS4EVA

Verified INFORMATION on…

NOVAVAX

NVX-CoV2373

The FACT that the NOVAVAX Vaccine is 100% effective in preventing hospitalizations in trials has been available for almost A YEAR?

NVX-CoV2373

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novavax_COVID-19_vaccine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novavax_COVID-19_vaccine

14 JANUARY ARTICLE

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/novavax-candidate-may-prove-best-long-term-solutio

So WHAT? has
Been Happening

SO WHAT? is the HOLD UP?

As COVID is as worse as it is
Should there not be some…
URGENCY in processing its
APPROVAL for USE

Indonesia has done it

Novavax candidate may prove best long-term solution for Australia
While debate swirls around the first two vaccines set to be used in the rollout, NVX-CoV2373 comes with potential advantages.

Associate Professor Griffin says having different types of vaccine candidates is a ‘huge advantage’.

Mandating all these OTHER Vaccines
when this is being approved
for ROLL OUT

Is just BAD Comedy
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November 24, 2021 9:01am
Maggie Pie

My partner complained earlier about all the time I spend on Twitter.
Reckoned it was affecting the way we communicate.
So, I blocked him.
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November 24, 2021 9:04am
- Maggie's partner
  
  Actually I unfollowed you
  
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  November 24, 2021 9:44am
Nickc2

So the Govt wants to Digitise our money eh. Is that like ‘Cooking the Books’?
https://thebfd.co.nz/2021/11/24/get-your-dirty-socialist-mitts-off-our-cash/
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November 24, 2021 9:04am
- Nickc2
  
  The underlying skullduggery in my above comment is that this Govt wants to monitor and control your spending. Get used to it, it’s Socialism at work.
  
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  November 24, 2021 9:13am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Puka, Cinders is right in the WEF/UN fireplace. She will be implementing the ID2020 plan too with the “vaccine certificate”.
  
  Anyone for a Gatesburger? Better start learning how the Chinese manage with the social scoring and grocery shopping.
  
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  November 24, 2021 11:15am
  - Nickc2
    
    Do you think we can logically assume that Vax Certs are just another people tracker (if scanned) and probably a precursor and accompanier to Digital Currency?
    IMO, there’s nothing this current Govt won’t know about its peasants and be able to control all in the short space of two terms of Govt.
    
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    November 24, 2021 12:04pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      Driver licences, pilot licences, fishing licences, passports, NHI numbers, ID validation at the bank from voice matching …. I am bound to have missed a few …
      
      Where will it end ….
      
      11 3
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      November 24, 2021 12:18pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        When it is all rolled into one and used to control your movements and your social entitlements. Why do you ask, or are you simply unaware ?
        
        8 2
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        November 24, 2021 12:38pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Voting Licence. You must be enrolled to vote these socialists out
        
        4 2
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        November 24, 2021 2:26pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  This is what the Dan Bongino Rumble clip was about.
  Saude Omarova.
  And MCos asks where I get this shit from? Happening in the bee’s nest
  
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  November 24, 2021 4:06pm
Prince

Just a reminder that when the Govt, and the media, claim 84% of NZ’ers are fully vaxed, and 91% have at least one dose, that is not true.
Their population data do not include around 100,000 NZ’ers who are not registered at their regional DHB.
Based on the Dept of Statistics population data, the real numbers are 81% fully vaxed, and 89% with at least one dose.

Also, how are they counting the third doses being administered now ? Are they separating those out or just adding them to the second dose figures ? Knowing their desire to fudge the numbers, I very much doubt it.
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November 24, 2021 9:05am
- Tom Hunter
  
  Shhhh…. We need them to fool themselves and/or allow their propaganda to succeed on at least this issue.
  
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  November 24, 2021 4:16pm
kowtow

News reports a huge increase in assaults on prison staff . Mostly by gangs .

Make no mistake this is a power play and wot’s the response ?
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November 24, 2021 9:06am
- pdm
  
  Klueless Kelvin will not be going anywhere near that problem – just like the Waikeria riots.
  
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  November 24, 2021 11:03am
TripeWryter

Stuart Nash is a thoroughly unpleasant little man.
I was watching Parliament when he answered a question and then he completely threw out his objectionable words about racists and anti-vaxxers in Groundswell – which had nothing to do with the question being asked.
He grinned slyly as he said them – he knew exactly what he was saying and what he was doing. He knew he was deflecting with a giant red herring. He was smearing and he knew it.
I heard him on Mike Hosking’s programme this morning. I don’t care whether he apologises; I’m not an affected party.
And anyway, such apology would be insincere anyway, as most apologies are these days because they are at the behest of the PR and media departments ‘to make it just go away and bury it’.
But on Hosking’s programme this morning I heard a politician dig himself deeper the more he insistently tried to justify himself.
And he became nastier the more he sprayed and blustered.
Hosking asked for comment from Nash and his National counterpart Mark Mitchell about Kainga Ora’s violent and anti-social tenants threatening neighbours.
After trying to bluster his way out of that he said he wasn’t the minister for housing. No, he’s not.
But then he came back and blustered again about how Kainga Ora was trying to be humane to everybody in trying circumstances.
And then he tried another deflection when he was questioned again about his smearing comments on racists and anti-vaxxers in Groundswell. He alleged his National counterpart had put his name to something about anti-vaxxing. Mitchell hadn’t.
But deflection, you see?
It’s become a pattern with some of the Labour ministers and the prime minister – when they’re put under pressure the mask drops.
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November 24, 2021 9:09am
Fletch

This is something we’re not made aware of. A nurse in NZ on the number of people in hospital with heart and other conditions most likely because of “adverse effects”.

https://www.facebook.com/ChantelleBakerNZ/videos/6477867745620948/
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November 24, 2021 9:13am
- ClanMcleod
  
  This is a true story. A nurse at the local medical centre who reluctantly got the jab recently, helping a woman with a badly cut foot. Collapsed to the ground spasming, the injured person helped her up. Nurse had no idea what happened, never happened before, blamed it on not having breakfast and being tired. 3 minutes later she collapsed again. She still insisted it wasn’t connected to the jab she had 2 days before. smh.
  
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  November 24, 2021 10:45am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Correlation is not causation
    
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    November 24, 2021 12:36pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Correct, but correlation is often worth investigating to see if there IS causation. Too many people simply parrot the truism and forget that often there can be causation, but additional proof is needed.
      
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      November 24, 2021 12:40pm
      - Fletch
        
        Right. Just like not every conspiracy theory is just a theory. Sometimes there are conspiracies. And I’d suspect quite a few these days.
        
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        November 24, 2021 12:52pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Have had to call an ambulance 3 times since the beginning of Oct. The same problem. Blood tests, Xrays, aspirin, nitro, painkillers 2nd time put down to pneumonia. ECGs say no stroke or heart attack. Now they still can’t identify the cause. Vax on Oct 6, 2nd on Nov 19.
  The Doctors say it is not the vax, but they can’t rule it out. That is sitting on the fence.
  When you wake up at 1am with breathing issues and severe chest pain there is some thing causing it.
  Hat tip to North Shore Hospital ED, isolation, and recovery units.
  
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  November 24, 2021 2:42pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    “It’s not the vax”. Would love to see them explain this US data on excess deaths amongst 25-45yr olds since the start of the pandemic then.
    https://twitter.com/Covid19Crusher/status/1461626589033160707/photo/1
    
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    November 24, 2021 3:22pm
Bridgenag

Who owns the world ………apologies if this has been here before

https://rumble.com/vn7lf5-monopoly-who-owns-the-world-must-see.html

VERY INTERESTING WELL WORTH LISTENING TO
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November 24, 2021 9:15am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Is this the path NZ is being rammed down? Looks like it to me.
https://rumble.com/vp51gj-biden-banking-nominee-no-more-private-bank-accounts.html?
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November 24, 2021 9:22am
- MCōs
  
  “There will be no more private bank deposit accounts and all of the deposit accounts will be held directly at the fed”
  
  Where do you find this shit?
  
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  November 24, 2021 10:03am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    I saw it on Notthebee (the non-satire sister site to Babylon Bee) weeks ago.
    
    Many of Biden’s nominees are highly ideological and are so insulated that they simply don’t understand that they’re insane.
    
    It’s also worth noting that this isn’t a big stretch from the Democrat’s current push to have the IRS have all access to all transaction details for everyone.
    
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    November 24, 2021 11:49am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Posted on Rumble by Dan Bongino, who I follow on FB
    
    3 4
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    November 24, 2021 12:08pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    More info about Omarova here.
    I really cant understand why Biden would want to appoint her
    https://victorygirlsblog.com/saule-omarova-thief-who-wants-to-confiscate-our-bank-accounts/
    
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    November 24, 2021 12:35pm
Yvette

Guest article: Māori professor under investigation for views on mātauranga Māori

• Dr Siouxsie Wiles and Dr Shaun Hendy — who have been highly visible in providing scientific backing to political judgments by the Prime Minister over the past 18 months during the Covid pandemic — went as far as to co-author an open letter, announcing they “categorically” disagreed with the professors’ views.

Are Wiles and Hendy indulging in ‘woke’ grandstanding or does their opposition to Maori Professor Dr Garth Cooper cast grave doubt on their “providing scientific backing to political judgments by the Prime Minister over the past 18 months during the Covid pandemic”?

• “Does the teaching of indigenous knowledge need to be examined?”
“indigenous“? – when a large portion of Maori oral history relates to their immigration in the seven original waka? Are Maori NOT indigenous, but of immigrant origin, like all other new Zealanders.
Their heritage is only the monopolising “kindergarten sand pit” argument of “We were here first”

• values like whanaungatanga, kaitiakitanga and manaakitanga [are in fact] – the power of being connected to each other, having an ethic of care, respect in the way we progress, and taking care of things for ourselves and our mokopuna that is: values common to almost all other humanities in history – so nothing new. (like see: Jesus, sermon on the Mount, or read Marcus Aurelius)
I challenge anyone to give an example of Maori “indigenous knowledge” that is unique and separate to any other scientific knowledge and that may benefit our present or future existence

• While Government agencies, from the Tax Working Group to the Climate Change Commission laud “values like whanaungatanga, kaitiakitanga and manaakitanga” (– the power of being connected to each other, having an ethic of care, respect in the way we progress, and taking care of things for ourselves and our mokopuna– so not new, from Jesus, Sermon of the Mount, to Marcus Aurelius), but at the same time, others proclaim : Māori are more likely to be overweight, depressed, homeless, incarcerated and uneducated [Kelvin Davis, 2017] and now … the least vaccinated, Willie Jackson has a position perched on the fence – Coronavirus: Calls to keep Auckland locked down to protect Māori are patronising – Labour MP Willie Jackson

“This is an invitation to you. This COP, learn our histories, listen to our stories, honour our knowledge and get in line, or get out of the way.” – Māori climate activist India Logan-Riley gives stern warning to G-20 leaders.

What stories, what knowledge – give just one example.
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November 24, 2021 9:36am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Gee, didn’t you learn why we had a partial Lunar eclipse last week?
  
  It is because Whiro (The Lord of Darkness) is at war with the moon.
  
  https://www.teaomaori.news/be-cautious-because-whiro-war-moon
  
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  November 24, 2021 11:07am
- graham
  
  … get in line, or get out of the way.” – Māori climate activist India Logan-Riley.
  
  Man I love being fed hard line demands by activists, it really persuades me to listen to them.
  
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  November 24, 2021 11:09am
Fishing in the dark

Kiss the democracy good bye with these clowns.
This country is very much doomed and in real terms NZ Inc. is bankrupt.
There are also the Maori disaster, Gang disaster, Housing disaster, Poverty disaster, Homeless disaster, Climate change disaster, Health disaster, Covid disaster, Transport disaster etc.
It is about time to leave this disastrous country unless its changes the government to a more normal policies and back to real freedom as well as to real democracy.
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November 24, 2021 9:38am
MCōs

I see young Rittenhouse said on Fox he supports BLM.
Well there’s a conundrum for just about everyone pushing a strident agenda across the political spectrum!
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November 24, 2021 10:00am
- All_on_Red
  
  He means the idea not the organisation
  
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  November 24, 2021 12:21pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Now ya done gone and spoiled it for MCos. He was trying to smear the kid.
    Anyway, all lives matter. BLM has nothing to do with Black Americans
    
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    November 24, 2021 2:49pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      “all lives matter”. Raycist!!!!
      
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      November 24, 2021 3:23pm
  - MCōs
    
    “I’m not a racist person. I support the BLM movement, I support peacefully demonstrating,” Rittenhouse told Carlson.
    Associated Press
    
    Seems pretty definitive to me.
    
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    November 24, 2021 3:16pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Not sure why what he says is noteworthy. He is beginning the process of seeking damages from myriad deep left wing pockets for defamation, and has no doubt been told how best to play the media game to maximize the payout.
      
      4 1
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      November 24, 2021 3:25pm
      - MCōs
        
        That’ll be it.
        Beginning his new life as a grifter.
        Next minute.
        Fundraising to cover legal expenses.
        
        2 1
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        November 24, 2021 3:51pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      It’s not going to end well when ‘peaceful’ demonstrators all feel the need to be armed for ‘self defence’ and everyone else also feels a similar need to defend themselves against the demonstrators. Leaves the police in an impossible position in trying to guess who is defending themselves from whom.
      
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      November 24, 2021 3:27pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Mike, petrol station, dumpster on fire, trying to take a gun, hit with edge of skateboard, illegal handgun.
        Not guilty.
        What would you have done Mike? Stayed in the basement and not defend your families property?
        
        7 3
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        November 24, 2021 4:15pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Steve
        I am suggesting you move beyond the specific facts of one case and ask yourself whether, as a principle, well-armed protestors and counter-protestors will result in more deaths, or less deaths.
        
        1 2
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        November 24, 2021 7:30pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        If police applied the law as they are supposed to (Really if Democrat politicians allowed them to, riots being almost entirely a tool of the Democratic party who in ordering police not to stop them are using the thugs to kow and threaten majorities) the spate of rioting seen in the US over the last year would end immediately.
        
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        November 24, 2021 8:49pm
  - MCōs
    
    https://apnews.com/article/kyle-rittenhouse-shootings-race-and-ethnicity-kenosha-wisconsin-64f379ffb884fba5b1420f88d0b8feb6
    
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    November 24, 2021 3:24pm
Rusty

The herald quoted part of a speech Brian Tamaki made at one of the anti-lock down protests in the Akl domain.

“We keep getting EFFED over” (caps by me)

Is that appropriate language for a man who claims to be a christian and a follower of Jesus Christ?

I’m not a prude but Brian Tamaki has many followers — do we want to hear mums, dads, and kids talk like that?

I would even agree with Brian on these unnecessary and confusing lock downs imposed on us, but oppose it with good manners and words.
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November 24, 2021 10:11am
- Nickc2
  
  It’s every day speech. If he’d used beget and begat, no one would know what he’s talking about.
  
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  November 24, 2021 12:37pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    And it is in fact common parlance in the Bible today…..
    
    https://the-toast.net/2016/06/20/the-king-shit-bible/
    
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    November 24, 2021 1:47pm
Reid

[Dr] John Campbell runs through the Japanese miracle: i.e. its precipitous drop in covid cases 13 days after it allowed doctors to prescribe ivermectin.

Dr. John Campbell, is a nurse and nurse teacher with a PhD. He’s not a doctor but he always uses studies and data to illustrate each point he makes and he has a fairly large following on youtube: 1.4 million right now.

https://youtu.be/E1GF0H9V_1g

This is his YT channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Campbellteaching
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November 24, 2021 10:14am
- bronny1
  
  I couldn’t believe it when I saw an article in msm saying the virus must have mutated itself to death….they didn’t mention the IVM given a month ago but I recalled it.
  
  Such liars!!!,
  
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  November 24, 2021 11:34am
- Fletch
  
  Again, it’s maddening that we have the drug to treat this, which is cheap and effective. Six cents a dose from the WHO. It’s a disgrace and surely criminal that this is being ignored. And even worse that Kiwis aren’t allowed to order themselves from overseas (it’s stopped at the border). Again, criminal.
  
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  November 24, 2021 11:39am
  - Reid
    
    Yes, it is. And I wonder if Pharmac has already placed an order for the Pfizer pill, which has only one attack vector vs IVM’s 5-6 attack vectors. Meaning it makes the virus more likely to escape.
    
    Plus it costs heaps per course.
    
    Where IVM is much better and has a massive 40 year safety profile of around 1.2 billion people taking it and only 5000 or so adverse reactions. Versus the new pill which has no safety profile whatsoever.
    
    See the vids in this comment for the evidence of those statements
    
    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/11/general_debate_22_november_2021.html#comment-3069558
    
    If Medsafe goes ahead with this purchase and the Health Dept makes it a mandatory treatment while still disallowing IVM to be used, personally I think there will be multiple grounds for legal action, ranging from breach of Medsafe’s own policies for pursuing the cheapest available option to medical negligence for not selecting the safest, most effective option, which also happens to be the cheapest.
    
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    November 24, 2021 12:46pm
    - cmm
      
      It also wouldn’t hurt them publicising the absolutely non-controversial fact that Vit D levels are low in darker skinned and obese people. Spending 15 cents a day on Vit D would very likely make a massive difference in hospitalisations and other poor outcomes amongst much of our population, particularly our darker brothers and sisters.
      
      But where’s the fun in telling people there are some cheap and simple methods to make a dramatic difference? Much more fun to force the jab and traffic lights and passports and masks and contact tracing on 100% of the population when only 20% or so stand to gain from it.
      
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      November 24, 2021 3:15pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Correct, criminal behaviour, and ultimately it must be addressed.
    
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    November 24, 2021 1:16pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    If it don’t fit the narrative, BAN it. Same as antibody testing
    
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    November 24, 2021 2:51pm
- MCōs
  
  https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-japan-idUSL1N2RS1NO
  
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  November 24, 2021 2:31pm
  - Fletch
    
    I don’t trust the media and their “facts”.
    
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    November 24, 2021 4:52pm
  - Reid
    
    Interesting how they never needed factcheckers until lots of people started looking into truth.
    
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    November 24, 2021 7:29pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

One month until Christmas Eve.
Thought you may want to know. Does the Govt know????
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November 24, 2021 10:15am
- Ed Snack
  
  Our local supermarket Santa has a mask on ! Oh the horror…
  
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  November 24, 2021 10:16am
  - burt
    
    Not even Santa has faith in the vaccine.
    
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    November 24, 2021 12:31pm
raven

Dr Shankara Chetty : “This plan is to make sure that we can control and kill off a large portion of the population without people suspecting that we were poisoned”. Video below:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/FMNYh6pRgfCn/
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November 24, 2021 10:25am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Amazing the usual anti conspiracy mob here have not made a comment. Crickets as Americans say
  
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  November 24, 2021 2:58pm
Ehlana

Richard Prebble writing for the Herald this morning:
“Three internationally recognised New Zealand economists have slammed the Government’s strategy.” So I guess they’re all out of the Royal Society, if economists were ever allowed in.

One of them has been reading international peer-reviewed research (colonial racist oppressive science, in woke) which says “stricter lockdowns did not reduce excess mortality”. He calculates “our loss of life expectancy due to the lockdowns’ reduction in economic activity is equivalent to 46,000 lives”. Obviously, he doesn’t get that 46,000 lives lost is less than the 80,000 lives our PM has saved.

Another believes “preventing hospitalisation and deaths is largely achieved when the vulnerable and elderly are fully vaccinated, at around 30 per cent of the population. A level of 80 per cent vaccination, the target in many countries, produces almost the same benefit as 90 per cent.” He also claims “When one adjusts for age, Pasifika are more vaccinated than Pākehā. The Māori rate is almost totally explained by Māori being a young population.”, so is clearly in denial about his white privilege.
The third has realised vaccines could have been ordered (and administered) earlier, which would have meant no need for the Auckland lockdown.

As for Mr Prebble, he thinks Labour ministers were pandering to their voting base rather than following the science. Quarantining the unvaccinated will not stop Covid. Traffic lights won’t reduce the cost of hospitalising the unvaccinated, should they need it. “The economic and social cost of firing anti-vaxxers is far higher than offering the option of a negative test before contact with the public.” and “A poll-driven government is mob rule.”

Mr Prebble’s thoughts are safely behind a paywall, where they will not threaten the safety of vulnerable students. KiwiBlog readers, of course, are made of sterner stuff.
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November 24, 2021 11:00am
- KevO'Brien
  
  One Richard Prebble could outperform the whole of the Arden Gulliblement.
  
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  November 24, 2021 11:04am
  - bronny1
    
    I wrote to him 20 years ago after a protracted (6 months) argument with IRD about my student loan. IRD insisted I keep making payments from my salary because they didn’t know my balance while I was sure it was at least close to paid off if not overpaid.
    In 3 days (including coming in the post!) I had a letter from him with an attachment from IRD setting out all my payments, interest etc, (which IRD had insisted their system could not do and which it appeared had been done manually as it was set out in a word type doc) and a cheque for the overpayment.
    Was super impressed with him both as my MP and as a Minister.
    
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    November 24, 2021 11:40am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Mad Dog Prebble. Only liked him after he ditched the beginnings of Labour control and went to ACT.
    Guess who I am voting for Judith?
    
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    November 24, 2021 4:36pm
All_on_Red

Our Politicians, their Advisors and the Public Service are really quite shit aren’t they
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November 24, 2021 11:03am
- Reid
  
  It’s a broken system all throughout the Western democracies.
  
  It needs to change, it can’t continue. If the media did its job it wouldn’t be happening. The media need to change as well.
  
  That’s the positive outcome if this Fourth Turning we’re currently in pans out well. If it doesn’t…
  
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  November 24, 2021 11:45am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I hadn’t heard of the pseudoscientific ‘Fourth Turning’ before. Thank you.
    
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    November 24, 2021 2:49pm
    - Reid
      
      Strauss and Howe. Look it up. It’s an interesting theory, and it seems to be paning out right now, that’s for sure.
      
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      November 24, 2021 3:46pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        It seems to have both liberal and conservatives adherents, as it is inherently flexible as to which version of the good old days one might expect.
        
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        November 24, 2021 4:05pm
      - Reid
        
        Yeah it’s not a political theory Mike, it’s an observation based on the patterns of history, which forms not from politics but from human nature.
        
        What’s interesting is the identifiable repetition of it throughout the generations as they cycle through.
        
        It brings new dimension to the old saying of history repeats.
        
        That book will be in your library BTW. It’s in Hamilton’s so it will be in the Hutt’s I’m sure.
        
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        November 24, 2021 5:25pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        ‘Patterns of history’ have a pretty bad record, from Hegel and Marx to Spengler and Toynbee. Mostly wishful thinking.
        
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        November 24, 2021 7:35pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Read Schwab.
      
      3 3
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      November 24, 2021 5:09pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Reid, the Media ARE doing it’s job. They have been paid to do so.
    How many more payments will be made before the next Election?
    
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    November 24, 2021 4:38pm
curry4me

https://spectator.com.au/2021/11/scott-morrison-has-created-his-own-vaccine-mandate-crisis/

Scott Morrison has created his own vaccine mandate crisis.

Scott Morrison has condemned Queensland’s proposed vaccine mandates, suggesting that Queenslanders, vaxxed or not, should be able to go out and have a cup of coffee.
Pauline Hanson is calling his bluff. As are two of his senators.
There is a variety of vaccine mandates on the east coast of Australia.
In New South Wales a mandate applies limiting what you can do until the vaccination rate reaches a specific level. In Victoria, mandates limit what you can do in perpetuity.
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November 24, 2021 11:05am
- Ian Boag
  
  I understand that covid management issues devolve to the states in Oz. The PM has influence (of course) but no power to order anything. It is what it is.
  
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  November 24, 2021 11:18am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-MGpbOgk4E
The Collapse of the Baltic Tigers: How did Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania escape ruin?

Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, the so-called Baltic republics, have experienced one of the highest economic growth rates in the world over the last three decades. However, their road to prosperity was not exactly a leisurely stroll in the woods. The Baltic countries had to face one of the biggest bubbles and crises in the old continent in living memory. [13:04]
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November 24, 2021 11:06am
- Libertarians are right
  
  It’s probably worth noting that their tax systems are regarded as the best and simplest in the world too.
  
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  November 24, 2021 2:21pm
Jack5

The great hopes of NZ as a link between China and South America have switched to air transport, with a report to the NZ China Council (link below). You have to wonder whether this is another example of China dangling flaky trade prospects for political advantage.

First, NZ was to be a shipping link from China to South America, promoted as part of China’s “belt and road” strategy, with talk of Marsden Point becoming a great trans-shipping port. The creation of the shipping ports has lost its glow with weird Chinese projects such as the 360-metre long, 25 metre depth Luganville wharf in Vanuatu, big enough to dock a big aircraft carrier.

The shipping dream was Marsden Point as a transhipping stage between China and South America. That prospect has faded away.

Now it’s air. It’s reasonable to be sceptical. For example, it takes 28 hours to fly from Shanghai to Lima, Peru, via Los Angeles. A flight of 11 hours 15min followed by a flight of eight hours 22 minutes.Shanghai to Auckland takes 11 hours 35 min then its 13hours 54 minutes Auckland to Lima.

The NZ China Council report says of the air-hub project:

The report identifies direct benefits of $1.87 billion for New Zealand’s e-commerce, tourism and education sectors over 10 years, and indirect benefits through new employment and construction of hubbing infrastructure.

Education? That surely presumes the rort will continue of NZ educationists selling NZ citizenship with study as a cover.

E-Commerce? From an airport hub? There can’t be a vast internet volume from air-shipping documents.

Tourism? Flight time from Auckland to Buenos Aires: nearly 14 hours. Stopover, Rotorua via Machu Picchu. (Actually, Chinese with the Great Wall and their own ancient cities might prefer kapa haka to Inca sites).

The NZ China Council report:

https://nzchinacouncil.org.nz/2021/11/new-trade-and-travel-hub-could-generate-billions-in-benefits-for-new-zealand/
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November 24, 2021 11:09am
- Jack5
  
  Edit: … stopover, Rotorua ~~via~~ v. Machu Picchu.
  
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  November 24, 2021 11:42am
- Reid
  
  I wonder what the climate alarmists on the left are going to say to the China promoters on the left about all that extra air travel?
  
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  November 24, 2021 11:42am
- kowtow
  
  Strategic .
  
  Air / naval bases in the Pacific like in Vanuatu , San Xiland physically split Australia from the USA .
  
  Anyone promoting CCP interests under the guise of trade etc should take a very close look at themselves in the mirror.
  
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  November 24, 2021 11:49am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Inca stone wall tech much better than that of the Great Wall
  
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  November 24, 2021 7:26pm
Reid

Biden’s energy secretary spends 15 mins explaining how brilliant it is to use the Strategic Petroleum Reserve to lower the gasoline price, then when a reporter asks “what is our daily consumption?” she looks down at her notes and says: “I don’t have that number in front of me.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnId2rQYS6M
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November 24, 2021 11:40am
- Cobolt24
  
  Biden is thinking of banning oil/gas exports much of the gas goes to Europe. At the same time, they oppose the Nord Stream 2 pipeline from Russia and have shut down the Keystone pipeline when it’s almost complete!
  
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  November 24, 2021 12:25pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

There are some funny things happening with Kiwiblog. I just started getting emails notifying about posts on KB, out of the blue.
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November 24, 2021 11:57am
Fletch

The Human Rights Commissioner finally speaks up –

The Human Rights Commission is seeking assurance legislation for the COVID-19 ‘traffic light system’ will be fully scrutinised.
Chief Human Rights Commissioner Paul Hunt is greatly concerned at the urgency used to pass the Bill before December 3 – when the traffic light system will start being used throughout New Zealand.

Hunt says because the traffic light system will bypass a Parliamentary Select Committee, it omits Parliament and the public’s ability to review and address human rights implications and Treaty of Waitangi obligations.

The Commission wants the Bill to go to a Select Committee as soon as it is passed and for the public to be able to have their say.

“Balances have to be struck between human rights. This complex but essential exercise comes into sharp focus during a pandemic where measures that protect the rights to health and life must be balanced against other rights, such as the right to work and a decent standard of living,” Hunt said in a statement.

“In times of national emergency, there is a risk of overreach when sweeping powers are granted and rights are not balanced appropriately leading to mistakes that are later regretted. This is precisely when our national and international human rights and Tiriti commitments must be taken into account.

“This cannot be done without Parliamentary scrutiny and public input.”

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/11/covid-19-human-rights-commission-wants-assurance-traffic-light-system-will-be-fully-scrutinised.html

Welcome to the party, pal…
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November 24, 2021 11:58am
- kowtow
  
  nah , he’s only interested to use it as Trojan Horse for Treaty issue .
  
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  November 24, 2021 12:32pm
kevn

Richard Prebble has very good comment in the Herald this morning.
Yes, I do subscribe on-line @ $1.50 pw. Worth it just to read Prebble.
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November 24, 2021 12:14pm
waripori

The PM’s off the cuff comment about scanning vax passes being optional ( and thus undermining the whole traffic light concept ) is another example of her not being very good at joined up thinking.

An earlier one was her statement Aucklanders would be able to travel over xmas. The original plan for traffic lights was for Auckland to go to red once 90% of all eligible people in all 3 metro DHBs were double jabbed. The rest of the country would stay in levels until all DHBs got to 90 % mark.

When Jacinda said Aucklanders would be allowed out and it was obvious not all DHBs would meet the target until next year some time something had to give. Without even acknowledging a fundamental policy change she blithely says we will all be under the traffic light system from December 3. She then says there is no need to verify if the passport actually belongs to the person whose name is on it.

There is obviously a high level of infection in Auckland. It will be much worse than the reported cases because most people are vaccinated and wont have much in the way of symptoms if any. Aucklanders will now be able to drive all over the North Island regardless of vaccine status or whether they have the virus and go anywhere they want to. I dont mind that really but it does make a mockery of the 100 billion we have spent trying to limit the spread of the virus.
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November 24, 2021 12:28pm
coge

I’m double jabbed. Of my own free will. My family are too. However many of my oldest and dearest friends, have refused vaccination. Of their free will. My view is there is no freedom unless we are all free. Therefore I refuse to participate in this passport business. To do otherwise would be tacit approval of that scheme, and all it entails. Which I cannot and will not do.
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November 24, 2021 1:08pm
- skyblue
  
  Which is your choice.
  
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  November 24, 2021 1:26pm
Bridgenag

Can I just use the little card that says I am vaccinated? When I tried to do something online I could only do one person on the email address and I don’t think I got a certificate
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November 24, 2021 1:30pm
- MCōs
  
  The little card may say you’re vaccinated, but it might be wrong.
  My wife doesn’t use email, but it was easy enough to create a gmail account.
  
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  November 24, 2021 2:55pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  2nd person has to have a separate email. Stupid, but I had to create one for my partner.
  All under control by the socialists …..
  
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  November 24, 2021 3:03pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Why the downticks dickheads??? It is true. What is it with rabid downtickers, all doing it one handed????
    
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    November 24, 2021 4:42pm
    - fernglas
      
      The downticks are probably because ……..?
      
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      November 24, 2021 9:03pm
Maggy Wassilieff

So deaths from Covid in NZ may not be covid deaths after all….

The ministry said the figures included all cases that died which were classified as an active case of Covid-19 at the time of death.

It said in some of these cases, the underlying cause of death may have been unrelated to the virus.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/456428/covid-19-13-people-have-died-in-current-delta-outbreak-ministry-of-health-confirms

I do hope that is clear, folks.
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November 24, 2021 1:39pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Just a while back someone die with or from Covid. In reality he died from lead poisoning – he was shot.
  
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  November 24, 2021 1:49pm
- nathie
  
  “I do hope that is clear, folks.”
  
  Well of course, lets see what Ardern says, then compare that with what Hipkins says, then compare that with what Robertson says, then compare that with what Bloomfield says, then compare that with what the Ministry of Health says, then if that’s still not clear then wait for someone from the Podium of Truth to clear matters up …. and before you know it, and although your head hurts, it starts to become as clear as mud!
  
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  November 24, 2021 4:10pm
kowtow

Wot’s happened to stephie these days.
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November 24, 2021 1:41pm
- hookerphil
  
  Shhh – Don’t wake him.
  
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  November 24, 2021 2:23pm
- graham
  
  Probably got tired of constantly having his ass handed to him on a plate …
  
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  November 24, 2021 2:46pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

This came to me by email. The sender just forwarded it to me, so I have no source.
Discard and don’t read if you wish.

From a FB page
3 Waters simply explained

I was explaining it to someone today in very simple terms:
• You have an asset that you and your family has spent decades paying for
• You pay a small fee each year to pay for the upkeep of the asset to be able to use it
• Someone comes and tells you that they will buy your asset for 10% of its value but you will still be able to use it
• They tell you that they will pay you in 3 years the 10% value of the asset
• They then tell you they are going to borrow the funds to pay you in 3 years but you are going to have to pay them for the loan, the interest and the team of people they will put in place to manage the asset because you are going to use it. So in short you are paying for your asset twice
• They also point out that they are going to have to charge you 10x the amount you paid each year for the upkeep of your asset
• They are going to give away half of the asset to someone else who has the ability to change the outcome to suit their own agenda which inevitably is going to cost you more money…….
And they tell us this is a really good idea and totally for your benefit……
Your Government in action working for that team of 5 million…unless you do the math and work out that its only the 15% proportional part of our population that will end up financially controlling the asset that you have already paid for…
you will pay again and again and again…
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November 24, 2021 1:46pm
- Yabster
  
  Good summation- 4 current downticks from the socialist/undemocratic brigrade, you must be on to something.
  
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  November 24, 2021 3:04pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I wish I knew the original – sorry
    
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    November 24, 2021 6:11pm
Maggie Pie

One of the girls from tennis was saying her partner is a bit upset.

Happened to hear the ‘GemLabs’ ad on ZB, with ex detective Graham Bell urging people to…. “Protect your Jewellery from Thieving Lowlifes”

He’s seriously thinking of contacting the HRC.
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November 24, 2021 2:19pm
Maggy Wassilieff

hey mikenmildagain..

d’ya reckon someone from newshub reads maggiepie posts?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/11/us-state-of-colorado-scraps-term-sex-offender-calling-it-a-negative-label.html

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/11/general_debate_22_november_2021.html#comment-3069568

perhaps other folks in NZ are interested in the administrative minutiae of judicial terminology in the middle of the USA.
https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/11/general_debate_22_november_2021.html#comment-3069929
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November 24, 2021 2:20pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  It is indeed possible that some members of the so-called ‘MSM’ pay attention to Kiwiblog. I seem to recall that some commenters here (can’t remember which ones) even imagine that their comments are influential on a national scale.
  Of course, if the media were really doing their job, someone would investigate what each of the fifty states call their sex offenders and then relate that to current terminology in other common-law jurisdictions. Actually, that might be too much of an ask for a journalist. Perhaps I could get a Marsden Fund grant for such a contribution to criminology.
  
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  November 24, 2021 2:56pm
  - Cobolt24
    
    I’ve heard Bruce on Newstalk ZB read out talking points of some topic one early morning at the start of his show. These were exactly the same, read in the same chronological order as DPF posted the day before on KB, unless DPF got them from somewhere else.
    It’s not the only time I’ve suspected it.
    
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    November 24, 2021 3:45pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Hiyaa Maggs – only just come back inside.
  Been down playing with the ball machine.
  How absolutely insane the whole world has become.
  It’s always been our belief, that anyone who is prepared to defend scum pedo’s, deserves to be locked up with them.
  
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  November 24, 2021 4:33pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    look out look out….mike & milkey are about 😀
    
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    November 24, 2021 6:53pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      It’s nice to be appreciated, Maggie.
      
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      November 24, 2021 7:37pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        But do please remember to follow DPF’s comments policy. It’s disrespectful not to, and one day a moderator might actually enforce it!
        
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        November 24, 2021 7:46pm
Bullion

I reckon we should disincentivize speculation on housing. It really is getting crazy:

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/113312/prices-bottom-end-aucklands-housing-market-increased-85000-october-making-home
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November 24, 2021 2:40pm
- Cobolt24
  
  Reserve bank is doing that currently with the measly .25 bps rate hike. What are we at now .75
  
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  November 24, 2021 3:41pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The present IRD bright line test does disincentivize speculation.
  
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  November 24, 2021 5:18pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  When it is a stone cold dead certainty this stupid Government will make every problem worse? You might be able to stop the poor, young and unskilled getting on the gravy train but no chance the smart stacked set won’t. Especially with inflation setting in.
  
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  November 24, 2021 5:24pm
Yvette

• The Waitangi Tribunal has granted a special inquiry into the Government’s handling of the pandemic with multiple expert witnesses ready to give evidence including Associate Professor Dr Siouxsie Wiles and Dr Rawiri Jansen.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/11/24/waitangi-tribunal-grants-inquiry-into-govts-handling-of-pandemic/

• Guest article: Māori professor under investigation for views on mātauranga Māori
Dr Siouxsie Wiles and Dr Shaun Hendy — who have been highly visible in providing scientific backing to political judgments by the Prime Minister over the past 18 months during the Covid pandemic — went as far as to co-author an open letter, announcing they “categorically” disagreed with the professors’ views.
https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/11/guest_article_maori_professor_under_investigation_for_views_on_matauranga_maori.html
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November 24, 2021 2:41pm
dime

Reading all these various dates and theories for travel next year..

I suspect tourism is absolutley fucked until we get a change of govt.
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November 24, 2021 2:50pm
- nathie
  
  Yep Cindy’s Socialists just don’t want to give up control it seems!
  
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  November 24, 2021 4:02pm
marcw

A warning of future consequences of building apartment or housing communities without adequate parking resources. Married couple murdered after apparent parking dispute. Who would have thought there would be consequences?

The killings are rumoured to be linked to a parking dispute between neighbours in the Taylor Wimpey development, where it is believed that residents are allocated at least one parking space each.
Sharon Sedgbeer, 50, a resident of Dragon Rise, said parking has been a problem because there simply “isn’t enough of it”.
She said: “It’s horrendous. People park at bad angles, on corners, blocking driveways because the spaces are so limited.”
Another resident, Melissa, said “everyone has an issue with parking around here,” adding: “Some people have multiple cars there isn’t space for and it has caused a lot of upset.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/23/everyone-has-issue-parking-around-say-neighbours-murdered-somerset/ (paywalled)
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November 24, 2021 2:52pm
Surely Knott

West Auckland facebook pages reporting a major incident – heaps of police roaring past with sirens and helicopters. One person said it was a machete incident and gunshots.
It’s becoming a regular occurrence. Will we get accurate reporting on the who and why.
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November 24, 2021 3:02pm
- rangitoto
  
  “‘Blood-curdling screams, gunshots’: Resident describes terrifying daylight attack in Auckland suburb”
  
  Just like every other day in Cindy’s NZ.
  
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  November 24, 2021 4:26pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Wonder if this works? Applies to the NZ Govt.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2188883494769720/?
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November 24, 2021 4:31pm
Maggy Wassilieff

It appears that Trevor Mallard can’t tell one ACT female MP from another.

Karen Chhour: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I would be quite keen to hear the rest of the Minister’s answer. May we please hear that?

SPEAKER: Well, I know, Ms McKee, that you’re not normally a naughty member of Parliament, but I had pretty clearly indicated that I thought that the question had been adequately answered and that we will move on to the next question.

I know they are both females of a “certain age” but Nicole McKee is not Karen Chhour.

https://www.act.org.nz/nicole-mckee
https://www.act.org.nz/karen-chhour
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November 24, 2021 4:34pm
- westernScientest
  
  If it was any other party there would be massive cries of racism.
  
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  November 24, 2021 5:08pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Whoops!
  
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  November 24, 2021 7:31pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

We have Christmas in 1 month. Same is happening here, and my freezer is half empty.
Thankyou Jaspinda.
https://rumble.com/vpoz8j-build-back-broke-marjorie-taylor-greene-torches-biden-economy-with-new-ad.html?
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November 24, 2021 5:00pm
- rockape
  
  My 3 freezers are full. Because my son and his family haven’t been able to visit for 2 years,
  
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  November 24, 2021 6:55pm
Battier

January 17th before Australian based Kiwis can come home, via home isolation. How many Kiwi families have had their last Christmas together?
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November 24, 2021 5:54pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  How dare you?
  Jaspinda could answer that question, but she does no have those numbers at the moment. //
  
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  November 24, 2021 6:16pm
fernglas

The announcement about opening the border is just plain nonsense. I live overseas but would like to return to catch up with family. I am certainly not going to bother if I have to spend 7 days in self-isolation even though I am fully vaxxed and have a negative test. Nor will any tourist.
And I presume “fully vaccinated” will operate to exclude anybody who has not had a booster 6 months after their second shot. Where I live, they don’t offer boosters other than to the badly ill or the very old, and as we know, you can’t get one privately, so that kind of snookers me and many other potential tourists as well.
One of the kids has a business on both sides of the sea, and she would like to be able to jet in to check out the NZ branch, but 7 days self isolation puts paid to that.
So basically, the government, in what seems to me to be covering for their own incompetence, is likely to exclude most tourists and most citizens who want to return for a visit rather than permanently, even though they pose almost no risk to the country at all.
Fucking pathetic.
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November 24, 2021 8:04pm
Leofric

Well, it looks like Judith Collins has hatched a nefarious plan to get the Bridges monkey off her back.
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November 24, 2021 9:49pm

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