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November 25, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 25 November 2021

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General Debate

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Captain Mainwaring

I’ve always been suspicious about the 3.4% ‘unemployment ‘rate.
Then yesterday I learnt from someone who knows about this stuff that ‘unemployed’ only counts those who are actively seeking a job.
Apparently the current Government changed the rules a few years ago so that even if you’re too lazy to look for a job you still get a benefit without being counted as unemployed.
According to my contact the true unemployment rate is 12 point something percent.
That sounds about right, but who in the paid MSM is going to say anything about it?
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November 25, 2021 8:01am
- krazykiwi
  
  This has gone on for years. The only way to get the true figures is to lodge an official information request for recipient counts on various benefit categories
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:04am
- BAM
  
  You can get a benefit now and there’s no obligation to be seeking work, that’s what’s changed.
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:07am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Yes, but you don’t get classed as unemployed unless you’re seeking work, which totally screws the figures.
    
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    November 25, 2021 10:57am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  The unemployment rate has been manipulated for decades.
  
  What will be interesting is the number of people who have been forced to not work and live on government handouts for the last 4 months, now feel like they just can’t go back to work.
  
  The stress on owners and staff is real, the harm is real, many will be all but unemployable.
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:10am
- Isobar
  
  It makes sense as there are people who retire early, are in between jobs, people with long term severe health conditions preventing them from working or (one day) about to travel.
  
  Those groups should not be included in the unemployment statistics.
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:10am
  - alphabeatrium
    
    Well, they should be in -some- class of the statistics. I think it’s interesting to know just what % of working age people are (whether or not by choice) are not working. It’s also separately interesting to know which % are actively seeking work.
    
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    November 25, 2021 9:42am
  - bronny1
    
    What about people who are not eligible bc they have savings that MSD forces them to spend first? They are not included either and I know lots of them.
    
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    November 25, 2021 10:19am
  - Observer of Life
    
    Iso: accidentally upticked you. Disagree. If you’re being paid to stay home because you haven’t got a job, that should be listed an unemployed. The exception to that would be those with a health issue which makes them ineligible to work.
    
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    November 26, 2021 8:47am
- cmm
  
  They also work hard to reclassify people as sickness beneficiaries so that they don’t turn up as unemployed.
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:13am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    That is not quite correct. The government abolished the sickness benefit. Everyone is now on a “jobseeker benefit” sick or not. ? No I’m serious. And there is no longer a work test in any real sense. Anyone can get a benefit. I know a woman who is on a “Jobseeker Benefit” whose partner is in full time work.
    
    Stats New Zealand determines the unemployment rate through a survey. Being on a benefit is not part of it.
    
    It is a two part question.
    
    First. Have you been employed for one hour in the last week? “If NO you get a second question.
    
    Are you actively looking for work?
    
    If NO you are classed as NOT IN THE WORKFORCE.
    
    If YES you are UNEMPLOYED.
    
    That is how unemployment is measured in all OECD countries.
    
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    November 25, 2021 8:25am
    - cmm
      
      Thanks for the correction.
      
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      November 25, 2021 8:32am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      So Ben, if the measure is the same as National used, there is nothing to see here?
      
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      November 25, 2021 8:34am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        No it is a serious issue – under National the “unemployed” broadly tracked “numbers on unemployment benefits”.
        
        Now numbers on benefits are way higher than the numbers unemployed. No surprise there. If you abolish work testing of course more people will be on a benefit.
        
        Think of it this way – Stats NZ does its survey. It phones Ms Beneficiary who is at home watching TV.
        
        “Have you been employed one hour or more in the last week?” NO
        
        “Are you actively seeking work?” NO
        
        She is not unemployed.
        
        Under the last Government she would probably have answered “YES” to the second question because every fortnight she had to tell her case manager what she had done to try to get a job!
        
        So there is no doubt that if eligibility for benefits was tighter, measured unemployment would be higher.
        
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        November 25, 2021 9:06am
    - artemisia
      
      There is also the Supported Living Payment, ”a weekly payment to help you if you have, or are caring for someone with a significant health condition, injury or disability meaning that suitable work is unlikely within the next 2 years”.
      
      Nearly 100,000 of working age on this. Back in the day addiction could be a reason to transfer to the then Invalids Benefit. Now?
      
      http://www.msd.govt.nz/documents/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/statistics/benefit/2021/benefit-fact-sheets-snapshot-september-2021.pdf
      
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      November 25, 2021 8:39am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        The benefits are largely unchanged–just the names. Accommodation supplement keeps equities between those on subsidised State rentals and other lower income people renting or having a mortgage. Long term medical costs are met and random special needs may be sometimes helped out.
        WFF replaces the old family rebate for dependant children so this is extended similarly across beneficiaries.
        The system provides a reasonable but frugal income for those unable to work or even superannuitants with young families.
        
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        November 25, 2021 10:58am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Part of Labour’s general approach of ‘fixing’ KPIs that make them look bad by stopping data collection. If people can’t check your work then they can’t call you out for doing a shit job.
      
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      November 25, 2021 10:06am
    - bronny1
      
      How does she get a benefit with her partner working? We were both out of work for nearly a year and couldn’t even get a community services card!
      
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      November 25, 2021 10:21am
- JibberJabber
  
  Apparently being too lazy to work gets you on the sickness benefit.
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:13am
  - Ruahine
    
    I have met a lot of people who are sick of working. A few even say that work makes them sick.
    
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    November 25, 2021 9:07am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  The “measure” comes from Stats NZ survey data, not from the MSD benefit data, which is partly why numbers don’t seem to match. On a slightly different note, yesterday’s OCR increase of 0.25% has resulted in a steady decline in the NZD/USD (down ~ 1.3%) since the announcement, the opposite of what should happen with a rate increase. Would suggest to me that there is no confidence in NZ’s economic position from those outside of the hermit kingdom.
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:19am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Not only those outside the hermit kingdom either . . .
    
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    November 25, 2021 12:56pm
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      Sadly PG way too many still believe in fairy tails – maybe they’ll understand when they only have fairy dust to eat!
      
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      November 25, 2021 1:58pm
- Fishing in the dark
  
  Just wait until this corrupt government has to stop all financial support for businesses.
  Don’t any numbers coming from this government, because all figures have been carefully massaged to their political advantage.
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:24am
- Roberta
  
  There are a lot of previously fully employed people on reduced hours too. For instance in the company I work at, we are all on four days a week because it is ‘hard times’. Effectively one in five of us is unemployed.
  
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  November 25, 2021 9:00am
- Fletch
  
  Yep, it doesn’t take into account the ‘underutilisation rate’, which at the moment is 9.2%
  That gives a clearer picture of the unemployed.
  
  https://www.stats.govt.nz/indicators/underutilisation-rate
  
  The number of people employed, aged 15 and over, is 68%
  
  https://www.stats.govt.nz/indicators/employment-rate
  
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  November 25, 2021 10:32am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Once you factor in those supported by the wage subsidies, the un & under employed rate is enormous
  
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  November 25, 2021 6:44pm
Tomtoddy

Sleepy Ole’ Joe has a few problems. Gas (petrol) is up 65% on a year ago. Many food items are up over 30%. Inflation is running at over 6% for the first time in 30 years and its climbing.

Bad news for the USA and bad news for us as we catch a cold when the USA gets the flu.
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November 25, 2021 8:05am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Americans still on about petrol price. If they paid NZ price it would be getting towards US$7 per gallon. Just shows how much the Govt is ripping NZ off.
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:11am
  - cmm
    
    The one big difference is that their whole society is structured around cheap petrol.
    
    The average American drives 50 km a day to work and back. But that is only the average.
    
    Many low income earners are long distance commuters – doing over 150 km a day. Couple that with increasing petrol prices and low wages and that becomes a big problem.
    
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    November 25, 2021 8:19am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yes I agree. In Europe in particular most low income folk don’t own cars. That is not an option in most of the United States.
      
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      November 25, 2021 8:33am
    - Tom Hunter
      
      My second job in Chicago was for Ameritech, the phone company formed out of the various Mid-Western Bell companies in the wake of the AT&T breakup. So you had Illinois Bell, Wisconsin Bell, etc.
      
      Ameritech’s then shiny new headquarters was in Schaumburg, a suburb about 20 miles out of Chicago. I worked with people who would drive for two hours from their home, across the state lines to get to work. Four hours and hundreds of miles a day was just staggering to me as a Kiwi but they thought nothing of it.
      
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      November 25, 2021 8:40am
    - thirteenstars
      
      “The one big difference is that their whole society is structured around cheap petrol.”
      
      What a lot of bullshit. It’s not “cheap” petrol, it’s just not artificially expensive petrol like it is here with about half the pump price going to the government. There’s no magic factor or special policy that keeps the price of petrol (and other such things) “cheap” in the US. In other words, their society is functioning as any would without an artificial constraint on a commodity.
      
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      November 25, 2021 8:44am
      - alphabeatrium
        
        Amen!
        
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        November 25, 2021 9:44am
      - cmm
        
        No, not bullshit. You’ve just misread what I said, thinking I am implying that petrol should be more expensive.
        
        Petrol is cheap in the USA. Petrol should be cheap the world over – it is a very cheap energy source.
        
        It would also be cheap here too if it wasn’t burdened with taxes.
        
        But the more important point is that US commuting patterns are designed around access to this cheap energy source. Many people travel over a hundred miles each way each day. That model falls apart when prices go up. If they had punitive taxing like us then they would change their commuting patterns to shorter distances.
        
        If we had cheap (as it should be) petrol like they do, then we’d likely modify our commuting patterns to longer distances.
        
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        November 25, 2021 3:23pm
    - Bluegrass
      
      I recall back in 2008 or thereabouts during gas price rises my secretary, who had a long commute each way to downtown Houston, was worried about not being able to afford to drive to work [in a truck, but everyone has trucks in Texas – you need the space for a gun rack].
      
      Prices here in Springfield Illinois are currently around U$3.45 a gallon. 2 years ago I remember filling up in Detroit for 99 cents a gallon.
      
      There will be a major political problem for the Dems if prices for the basics keep increasing.
      
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      November 25, 2021 1:52pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    It is not as stark as that. ALL the petrol excise is used to pay for transport projects. I would be happy to pay the excise if it was being spent on roads instead of cycleways and general crap.
    
    But my point is that if you abolishes petrol excise you would still need to pay for roads.
    
    Personally I would abolish petrol excise and replace it with road user charges which would only be spent on building and maintaining state highways.
    
    Also people point to cheaper petrol in Australia. But registration and insurance is way higher.
    
    Main point.. IMO petrol excise here is not the problem. It is that the Government is misappropriating the revenue for cycleways and public transport. Because they hate cars.
    
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    November 25, 2021 8:31am
    - thirteenstars
      
      “Main point.. IMO petrol excise here is not the problem. It is that the Government is misappropriating the revenue for cycleways and public transport.”
      
      Of course petrol taxes are a problem. Fuel consumption suffers from inelasticity of demand and therefore hurts those least able to afford it. What they are forced to do is spend less in other areas–they are impoverished in other areas–all to satisfy the state’s insatiable demand for revenue.
      
      Further, the price of fuel is a component of every product and service in our economy. When fuel prices are high, the cost structure is high which forces all prices higher. Been to the supermarket lately?
      
      But worst of all, trusting the government to grab billions in revenue from fuel taxes and then spend it wisely is ignorance of the history of government action. The state is not efficient or even competent at spending, and the more it reaps the more profligate it becomes.
      
      “Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.”
      
      — P.J. O’Rourke
      
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      November 25, 2021 9:01am
    - Ruahine
      
      Your petrol (fuel) taxes now even go to fund Kiwirail. Over a $billion a year I believe.
      
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      November 25, 2021 9:13am
    - bronny1
      
      They don’t seem to understand that outside Auckland and wellington, public transport is unworkable. I would say that only about once per month I go somewhere I could reasonably do on PT in chch – and I’m out doing stuff in my car every day. And I live 4km from the closest of the 4 avenues.
      
      What planet do they live on?
      
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      November 25, 2021 10:24am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I have never used PT in ChCh. Most of the buses I see seem very empty. And when I go out the roads are packed with cars.
        
        Christchurch Council wants you to use PT or ride a bike. It is ideological. They should be treating the population like customers. Building the transport infrastructure that people want. Which is clearly roads for cars.
        
        But they are fixated on climate change. They don’t need to be. Just factor in a carbon price and ask people what they want. And it will be cars – they may be EVs but they will still be cars. Buses and trains are useless outside of Wellington. Every time I used a bus in Wellington it was full of sick people, teenagers, loud people. It is hideous. Hence why people like cars.
        
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        November 25, 2021 10:59am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        The car is full of sick loud objectionable teenagers but they are your sick loud objectionable teenagers so you just suck it up until you drop them off before picking them up again later.
        
        Every parent on this site with children will identify with this . . .
        
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        November 25, 2021 1:04pm
    - Stu2
      
      They fund police road enforcement too.
      
      Still it is vastly better than when most of the fuel revenue headed into the consolidated fund, and we couldn’t afford to develop the state highways much at all.
      
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      November 25, 2021 10:26am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      By getting the costs in the excise duty at the pump it is much easier to collect.
      That only the national petrol companies have to make a payment to the govt.
      
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      November 25, 2021 11:02am
      - Ra Henare
        
        Yesterday I drove from Hamilton $1.79/80 a litre
        Filled up at the Gull station 50kms north of Taupo $1.56 litre.
        
        So who is pumping up the margin?
        Supposedly little tax as road user charges apply.
        
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        November 25, 2021 11:25am
      - Ed Snack
        
        I drove past that station enroute to Auckland last week, pity they don’t have 98 octane though.
        
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        November 25, 2021 4:27pm
- kowtow
  
  A short while ago the pundits were saying it was only “temporary” .
  
  Everything we see these days is Fake News.
  
  Let’s Go Brandon.
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:13am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Likewise the CPI figures have been adjusted and manipulated, for decades, does anybody who goes shopping, experiences the price increases and shortages, believe the official inflation rate.
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:14am
- Master Mariner
  
  Yes indeed, Also an interesting read below,
  https://gcaptain.com/toymakers-war-room-goes-24-7-secure-spots-containers-ships/
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:15am
- KevO'Brien
  
  I believe it used to be we catch a cold when the USA gets the sniffles.
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:43am
- Sacha
  
  Not another b****y virus!!!
  
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  November 25, 2021 9:19am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    An economic one. Once Ministers of Finance were selected from higher skill grades that uni cafe bookkeeper assistants. It was a top job, requiring top skills and brought top honours. (The role in one form or another has been in place a 1000 years.)
    
    A Minister of Finance needs to understand NZ’s relationship with global monetary flows. Borrowing cheap money for housing from that printed in the USA is not without consequences.
    
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    November 25, 2021 10:42am
Justitia

Collins must go and quickly. For New Zealand’s sake. Nor is there any point in recycling Bridges. The phone is off the hook for both of them. They have no cut-through. A fresh team is required urgently. I like a Bayly-Stanford line-up. Just do it, now.
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November 25, 2021 8:06am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Do you truly, honestly believe that the media would listen carefully to, and report thoughtfully on, words spoken by any leader of the National Party?
  
  By all means replace Judith if you want, but you are simply delusional if you think it will make any difference at all to how the party is (mis- / under-) represented in the media and therefore how they are seen by voters.
  
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  November 25, 2021 10:34am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Why not diss Ardern first?
  
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  November 25, 2021 10:43am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Bayly is smart but he comes across like a goose.
  
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  November 25, 2021 12:26pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Bridges/Collins. This was always going to happen.
Jaspinda is in trouble – media throws up a yuge smokescreen and sets up a yuge diversion.
Watch the other side of the fence
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November 25, 2021 8:06am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yeah, but..
  
  National didn’t need to hit the self-destruct button.
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:09am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Media hit the button for them – a diversion, that is what they were paid $110M to do
    
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    November 25, 2021 8:16am
    - MCōs
      
      The media would pay the Nats for stuff like this.
      
      Expect Crusher to have her have own game show on TV3 in the new year.
      
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      November 25, 2021 8:36am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I think it is time for a politics-based ‘reality’ show. Perhaps one where a recently retired politician mentors contestants aspiring to a political career.
        
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        November 25, 2021 2:13pm
    - westernScientest
      
      They could be handling it a lot better
      
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      November 25, 2021 8:38am
  - peterwn
    
    She is not called Crusher for nothing. She must have been quietly getting all the ducks in a row and decided the time was ripe for a pre-emptive strike. I think she has been quietly working away getting the ‘numbers’ both in Caucus and the Board. She most probably has all the ladies on side. Simon would not have known what hit him. With changed Party rules the Board has to approve any leadership change proposed by Caucus, so this makes a leadership challenge more difficult to pull off.
    I strongly suspect that Judith will be claiming further scalps in the months ahead with timing being on her terms. And they will not be National Party MP’s.
    
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    November 25, 2021 8:24am
    - kowtow
      
      She might have the numbers in caucus , but she doesn’t have the numbers that count . The polls.
      
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      November 25, 2021 9:25am
      - mawm
        
        For that she needs to signal that she will have policy that doesn’t sound like ‘same as labour but with better implementation’.
        
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        November 25, 2021 11:21am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Hmm, got that one wrong
      
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      November 25, 2021 6:51pm
  - G152
    
    It would appear that they disarmed the fake news run ‘take over’.
    Going to be some bitch faces on the news tonight 🙂
    
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    November 25, 2021 8:36am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Who says they did? Has any relevant truth appeared so far?
    This has all the flavour of a PR job to support a floundering Gulliblement.
    Good, It shows their concern and awareness they are losing.
    Never except a clean fight from the Labour Mob.
    
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    November 25, 2021 8:47am
- Andrei
  
  The media may float trial balloons but Judith Collins doesn’t need to dance to their tune
  
  She is like a puppet on a string
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:11am
- Nickc2
  
  Who bought this to Collins attention in the first place or is it something she initiated herself?
  I smell media involvement in triggering this debarcle for the same reason you outline but by whom and under what circumstances, I don’t currently know.
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:25am
  - Nickc2
    
    It just crossed my mind that this may be Jamie Lee-Ross’s revenge. Any advances on this?
    
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    November 25, 2021 10:09am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      You credit him with an intelligence that I have never seen . . .
      
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      November 25, 2021 1:10pm
Rusty

Does anyone remember a rugby league world cup tournament was meant to be played in England during Oct-Nov this year?

But the NZ and Aust rugby league bodies pulled out because they said it wasn’t safe due to covid.

We have just seen the AB’s, Wallabies, Boks and others play in the UK before full crowds.

Were they wimps NZ and Aust?
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November 25, 2021 8:06am
- Random T Person
  
  New Zealand is a nation of pusillanimous hobbits. Look what we’re allowing to happen to us. A quick sharp slide into totalitarianism.
  
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  November 25, 2021 9:40am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    pusillanimous, nicely used, not a word one sees every day or on a Scrabble board . . .
    
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    November 25, 2021 1:12pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Chippie on plays school TV1 this morning. Red face and looked like he had been crying. No love lost between him and Jaspinda lately, did she smack his arse???
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November 25, 2021 8:07am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  They all look like they are about to lose control and shit their pants.
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:16am
  - westernScientest
    
    That is what all the big boy leaders do now days haven’t you heard
    
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    November 25, 2021 9:14am
  - Master Mariner
    
    “They all look like they are about to lose control and shit their pants.”
    They already have, We just need to get over COVID to actually sit back and smell it for what it is.
    
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    November 25, 2021 9:49am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      The only good reason yet to be wearing masks.
      
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      November 25, 2021 10:53am
  - mawm
    
    They are only going to lose control if there is mass resistance to implementing their mandates, passes and red lights. I don’t see any off that.
    
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    November 25, 2021 11:24am
JibberJabber

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/109291004/damien-grant-building-bridges

Despite their leader’s low approval, National’s polling is holding up. Newshub has the party at 46 per cent, one per cent higher than at the last election.

No matter what people may think of Bridges, he isn’t causing potential voters to turn against the party.The current boom is a decade old and as fragile as the Deputy Prime Minister. The question National should ask itself is who people will vote for when they are afraid of losing their job? Who will they feel confident in when they are worried about the banks failing and the dollar falling?

The very things that make Bridges unpalatable now, the perception of arrogance, toughness and inflexibility, could be exactly what voters want when the world they understand comes unstuck.
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November 25, 2021 8:11am
Philview

Reading media reports it sounds like Judith Collins will be ousted today. Media suggestion that Reti will be interim leader rather than rush the process.
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November 25, 2021 8:11am
Paulus

Cannot understand why Collins threw the thunderflash into the crowd.
What strategic advantage could she expect to get ?
Bye Collins – now rather than later a expected.
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November 25, 2021 8:12am
Yvette

Newshub (who else) reports –

O’Brien [also, who else?] says the comment Bridges allegedly made was “around conception”.
The following comment may offend some readers:
The AM Show host Ryan Bridge says the gist of the conversation is alleged to be along the lines of “hey Jacqui, we have been talking about how to have a daughter. Do you think I should do long, slow strokes, or short, hard strokes”.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/11/simon-bridges-demotion-national-party-mps-urgently-meet-following-judith-collins-bombshell-announcement.html
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November 25, 2021 8:12am
- Philview
  
  National are struggling to attract female voters and I can’t imagine those sort of comments from Simon Bridges will help. Time for a fresh face at the top.
  
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  November 25, 2021 10:00am
- KevO'Brien
  
  What proof is there that any such comment was made? Trivia.
  
  How does it compare to the revelation that Ardern is treasonably acting as NZ’s stooge for the WEF?
  
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  November 25, 2021 11:08am
- Ohm my
  
  That’s it?? Yawn. I hear way better than that on a construction site, almost daily. That’s an easy one to respond to with a quick, witty come back. Harden up and develop a sense of humour, cupcake.
  
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  November 25, 2021 1:05pm
Master Mariner

A couple of interesting points in this article.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Bidens-Bid-To-Lower-Oil-Prices-Fails.html

“- Buoyed by its retail expansion in the UK following this year’s energy crunch, Shell (NYSE:RDS.A)
announced its move into Australia’s power sector, buying the New Zealand utility firm Meridian Energy (NZE:MEL) for $729 million.”
Anyone hear anything in MSM about this?
And,
“Shell Halves Singapore Refinery Capacity. In a move to curb emissions and optimize production, Shell (NYSE:RDS.A) has halved the production capacity of its 500,000 b/d Pulau Bukom refinery in Singapore, curbing fuel availability in Asia’s main shipping hub. ”

This is where NZ fuel prices are pre set. Further rises in the near future for NZ pump prices. This should ring alarm bells for all.
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November 25, 2021 8:13am
- KevO'Brien
  
  And they promote trivia instead.
  
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  November 25, 2021 11:09am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Shell have made an offer for Meridian’s Australian green energy arm, that’s all. Meridian’s market cap is waaaay higher than $729m
  
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  November 25, 2021 6:54pm
thirteenstars

Austria is breaking new ground in Covid authoritarianism. In the space of a week Austria’s lockdown of the unvaccinated has been extended to all citizens, and its government has announced it will make vaccinations compulsory. Refusers will face fines that can be converted into prison sentences.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/11/24/austria-is-leading-europe-down-a-dark-path/

Not really so different in NZ, is it?
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November 25, 2021 8:18am
- westernScientest
  
  You would think leaders in Austria would be a little more reserved about this sort of thing, given some of their history.
  
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  November 25, 2021 9:18am
- I remember when
  
  So the QAnon rally at Dallas waiting for JFK, Jnr was just a diversionary tactic?
  
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  November 25, 2021 10:24am
- mawm
  
  Impfung Macht Frei!
  
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  November 25, 2021 11:31am
ABS4EVA

Kia Ora Kia Ora

Team of 5 million

Next Pacific War Update

Communist China Threatens the Next Door Neighbours Australian Again

Good Link Here
https://www.globaltimes.cn/china/military/

Australia warned of a ‘heavy attack’ from China

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BouidTqzbXg

If Australia would ONLY Listen to Jacinda’s
MAGIC Words and repeat them

Remember be KIND TO ONE ANOTHER

Then the Strategic Situation in the Region
would improve drastically and they
would NOT NEED those Nuclear Submarines OK

Then we could all sit around the Global Campfire
singing Kumbaya or we all live in a Yellow Submarine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krIus0i9xn8

Australia does not even have Submarines yet
but those NAUGHTY Australian Submarines
ARE NOT ALLOWED in those
Well Defended NZ Waters

Because CINDY says SO.
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November 25, 2021 8:21am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Let’s send Mahuta over on her way back from Canada and negotiate a peace between the Chinese and the Australians.
  
  She has all the skill set and portable QR code ready to go . . .
  
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  November 25, 2021 1:21pm
MCōs

As long as Ms Collins is leader of the Nats anyone else with designs on her position will be busy scrubbing anything faintly offensive off their social media accounts.
I wonder what Cameron Slater’s role has been in all this? Does his influence wane if she’s not there?
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November 25, 2021 8:23am
Yvette

Not to leave National hogging the headlines – while Labour rams massive human rights legislation through Parliament under urgency – is Winston also self-destructing?

Winston Peters – the New Zealand First leader is seeking leave to appeal to the country’s highest court after his cases seeking damages were rejected in the High Court and Court of Appeal.
In the run up to the 2017 election, Peters revealed his superannuation had been overpaid – he’d made an error on the form and was being paid the single person’s rate even though he had a partner.
… Peters’ lawyer, Brian Henry, told the Court of Appeal his client did not know who had leaked his private information and wouldn’t be able to find out.
Peters confirmed the bid to appeal to the Supreme Court but declined to comment further, claiming it would be sub judice.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/11/24/winston-peters-looks-to-take-legal-fight-to-supreme-court/

Apart from the initial news, from Lloyd Burr that Peters had some irregularity in his superannuation payment – of interest particularly after Metiria Turei confessed to fraud – it is doubtful that no other information or “private details” were ever released that Peters did not either confirm or enlarge on voluntarily himself, and that a few questions like his mis-speak about the amount of money involved – $17,936.43 being just $63.57 shy of the media estimate of $18,000 – was revealed in court.

So, on what grounds would Peters renew any court action?
And should the amount of taxpayer funding so far spent on a mental obsession preclude him from being in charge of taxpayer money ever again?
__________

The only detail understood to have not been confirmed by Peters himself –
When Newsroom first published the $18,000 figure in August 2017, Peters told Radio New Zealand that the figure was not only incorrect, but was far too high. “To say that I have repaid $18,000 is just demonstrably false,” Peters told Morning Report in an interview on August 28, 2017.
“It is markedly different [to $18,000] – if it was more I would be telling you but it’s less. The repayment is nothing like the figure that is being used by a stab the dark. It’s clear to me someone is breaking the law and leaking from IRD [Inland Revenue Department].”
https://web.archive.org/web/20191113042445/https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12284147
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November 25, 2021 8:24am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The Justices will make their own decisions as to the merits of such an appeal proceeding.
  Ageing and scrapping don’t always mix.
  
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  November 25, 2021 11:15am
kowtow

Ferald editorial advising Groundswell to cast off the ‘crazier and off topic radicals’.

Ferald need to take its own advice .
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November 25, 2021 8:25am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  The fish wrapper calls them journalists . . .
  
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  November 25, 2021 1:24pm
Maggie Pie

These events with Simon this morning had me thinking of the first time I met my partner. It was at a bar in Parnell.

Heading back to the table with cocktails for the girls, just happened to bump into him as he was walking in with another guy.
Gave him a coy smile and said….. “WHOOPSIE!”
Then overheard him say to his mate, “Wouldn’t touch it with yours.”

Didn’t upset me in the least. Been together for over a decade.
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November 25, 2021 8:27am
artemisia

The Tamakis. Not a fan by any manner of means, but prosecuting them is just going to look like cancel culture. If found guilty they and their followers will see it as a badge of honour and will not be silent.

Might even do a haka, even if forbidden because of wrongthink.
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November 25, 2021 8:31am
- Random T Person
  
  I’m no fan either, but have no beef with them exploiting gullible Christians. But I 100% support the Tamaki’s on their principled stand.
  
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  November 25, 2021 9:44am
  - curry4me
    
    Random T Person: An ally can be someone whose objectives and beleifs overlap ones own by as little as 5%.
    
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    November 25, 2021 2:15pm
Captain Mainwaring

So scribble-face has arrived in Canada, her last stop.
Has anyone heard anything about her travels so far?
Thought not.
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November 25, 2021 8:34am
- G152
  
  The Canadians know what gangs are and how they work.
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:38am
- westernScientest
  
  have any countries let her out of their airports on the way? or has she been in the star alliance lounges making use of the membership
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:42am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Will she quarantine upon return to NZ, or is she exempt?
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:45am
- Nickc2
  
  She was on TV last night with the US Secretary of State. Her attire looked like it was stolen from a Shearing Shed.
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:53am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Let me guess. A black sack?
    
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    November 25, 2021 6:56pm
- Master Mariner
  
  My thinking as well.
  Of concern to me is what was discussed in the UAE? And why the UAE at all?
  “Jordan and Israel Sign Rare Water-for-Energy Deal. In a rare glimpse of how energy deals of the future might look like, Jordan promised to provide Israel with electricity from a 600MW solar power plant currently built in return for 200 million cubic meters of desalinated water.”
  Maybe, just Maybe.
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:58am
- Ruahine
  
  I thought I had caught a glimpse of her on CNN last night but I was mistaken. It turned out to be a gang member.
  
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  November 25, 2021 9:47am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Turns out she is a spokeswoman for a gang sort of like the moll who fronts up for the MM to explain ‘they are good boys really’, ‘they are turning their lives around’ and the gun in the car belongs to someone else . . .
    
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    November 25, 2021 1:29pm
pdm

Will Ardern be `Open and Transparent’ on her Auckland visit today?

Or will she scuttle in back doors so that she does not run into any protesters or unaffiliated media people or even Barry.

God forbid anyone should get the chance to ask her a meaningful question that a Prime Minister should be able to answer.
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November 25, 2021 8:58am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Then jump on the 757 when it returns to Whenuapai Base via Wellington?
  
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  November 25, 2021 10:00am
Master Mariner

This is really bugging me,
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/11/covid-19-human-rights-commission-wants-assurance-traffic-light-system-will-be-fully-scrutinised.html

Were was the outrage when NZ rode rough shood over BOR etc.

“In times of national emergency, there is a risk of overreach when sweeping powers are granted and rights are not balanced appropriately leading to mistakes that are later regretted. This is precisely when our national and international human rights and Tiriti commitments must be taken into account.”

Co-incidence on timing? The cynics amongst us would suggest so.
https://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/the-courts/high-court/covid-19-related-cases/
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November 25, 2021 9:08am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Wouldn’t it be wonderful to have a system like this?
  
  “a missouri court just struck down the department of health and senior services covid dictates in resounding fashion. see full ruling HERE. it’s a wonderful document. when a judge starts quoting montesquieu, you know you’re in for a treat…”
  
  https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/montesquieued-perceptions-of-government
  
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  November 25, 2021 9:59am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Great Judgement, Thanks for that.
    
    “It is incumbent on the courts to ensure decisions are made in accordance of Law and not Hysteria…..”
    
    Now NZ will have to wait for ,
    https://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/the-courts/high-court/covid-19-related-cases/
    
    And Ombudsmans findings.
    
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    November 25, 2021 10:16am
dime

I think the young girls who run stuff have some serious inferiority complexes.

The other day the described the Rocks new movie has starring some chick. no mention of the rock.

This morning it is:

The real star of Hawkeye is some random chick.

Its really weird.

Why do they think so little of chicks and their actual achievements?

Not to mention stuff using Aotearurura instead of new zealand and tamakarakiri makuaruaku instead of auckland.

Dimes mission – stop clicking on the Stuff website.

Its hard to break a habit, but i stopped clicking on you mofo’s for a few years (outside of clicking links people sent me). i can do this.
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November 25, 2021 9:15am
- BAM
  
  I downvote any comment with a stuff link.
  
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  November 25, 2021 10:07am
H. Upmann

We live in interesting times.

Mallard, yes Mallard, strongly criticises Labour for their corrupt emergency law shenanigans, criticism that probably will never to be seen again, particularly with this government, and what does National do?
Well, of course, shoot themselves right between the eyes.
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November 25, 2021 9:23am
- nathie
  
  Who did the shooting? “National” or Collins?
  
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  November 25, 2021 9:33am
  - H. Upmann
    
    Oh in the end it will probably be both, what with Luxon being wheeled out as Prime Savior.
    
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    November 25, 2021 10:50am
ClanMcleod

Dr John Campbell has been doing good videos on Youtube analysing the data around covid for quite a while. His latest one is extremely interesting. Covid numbers have collapsed in Japan. As he points out, it coincides with them permitting the use of Ivermectin via prescription and people being allowed to import it from India. This happened in mid August. Within 10 days their case numbers started plummeting.

I know correlation is not causation, Dr Campbell discusses that and potential other reasons this has happened, but the resulting graph is astonishing.

Miracle in Japan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1GF0H9V_1g

The key point though is, why are NZ doctors being told they CAN’T prescribe Ivermectin? Even if it didn’t help – (all evidence to date shows it is effective as a prophylactic) – it is a very safe and harmless drug. It is very cheap. It has been around for decades, the creators won a Nobel prize and it is on the WHO list of essential medicines.
WHY IS THE NZ GOVERNMENT DELIBERATELY STOPPING THOSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO TRY IT FROM ACCESSING IT?

More on the Japan story here.

https://freewestmedia.com/2021/11/03/japan-sees-huge-drop-in-cases-after-it-switches-to-ivermectin/

Why would anyone deliberately prevent access?
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November 25, 2021 9:26am
- Random T Person
  
  They chomping ivermectin big time in Africa too, and the MSM is wondering why African covid isn’t as serious. Could also be those who survive Africa are hardened by malaria, sleeping sickness, yellow fever, TB, etc.
  
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  November 25, 2021 9:46am
  - Fletch
    
    Yep, Africa is doing really well, with a very low vax rate.
    
    https://mises.org/wire/low-vaccination-rates-africas-covid-deaths-remain-far-below-europe-and-us
    
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    November 25, 2021 1:24pm
  - cmm
    
    Africa is also filled with young people. Median age is around 18.
    
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    November 25, 2021 3:39pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “Why would anyone deliberately prevent access?”
  Control. It is in the socialist operating manual.
  
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  November 25, 2021 10:03am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    I know. It’s a living nightmare.
    There is an excellent article on the subject in OffGuardian.
    
    They Live Amongst Us:
    Anatomy of a Cult
    
    “Our need to take refuge in the herd is, after all, hardcoded into our DNA, just as fear of social exclusion and a desire to cooperate are inherited evolutionary traits. Explaining why COVID began with social isolation. And why, after capitulating to every conceivable demand, we continue to be held to ransom, with the threat of further social isolation.”
    
    https://off-guardian.org/2021/11/24/they-live-amongst-us-anatomy-of-a-cult/
    
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    November 25, 2021 10:16am
- JibberJabber
  
  Why would anyone deliberately prevent access?
  I think we will find it’s in the contract, of course with this open and transparent government the chances are we will not find out in our lifetimes why potentially life-saving treatments and testing kits have been banned and denied to the public of New Zealand.
  But hey, Be Nice, it’s for your health.
  
  also it’s not hurting JAs bank acc either…
  
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  November 25, 2021 10:08am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  How many 10’s of billions have Big Pharma trousered from vaccines to date – and what are the projections for future profits from endless boosters? even 10% of that total buys a whole lot of political patronage and editorial support.
  
  Media and politicians (and the civil servants they control) do not work for public, they work for their owners, advertisers and patrons.
  
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  November 25, 2021 10:13am
- I remember when
  
  The Dr John Campbell You Tube covered this well along with reasons and details.
  It has been suggested that control of covid in India has also been by of the use of Ivermectin.
  I was waiting for Dr Campbell to investigate the possibility that the change in the Covid virus DNA, that resulted in the possible destruction of covid-19, was the result of the virus trying to circumvent the Ivermectin obstruction.
  If that was the result, it would really show the dangers of narrowing the treatment debate.
  The early views of the US doctors, who suggested use of a cocktail of items like aspirin, ivermectin, and vitamins D & C, seemed to be sidelined without enough research.
  Too many seeking the big prize of creating the first vaccine.
  
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  November 25, 2021 10:15am
- Ed Snack
  
  That chimes with the results in Uttar Pradesh and Delhi, use of Ivermectin as part of a cocktail of immune strengthening supplements reduced the Covid cases and hospitalisations (and for that matter, deaths) to very low numbers.
  
  At the very least this surely calls for. Review me a proper trial, which given the number of cases we have now could be conducted, albeit on a relatively small scale, in NZ. But as noted, it is not that they can’t, but that they WON’T.
  
  Why, there’s only a few possible reasons. One is that there are causes in the non-public agreement with Pfizer that excludes it; another is that they nailed their colours to the mast early on and a combination of pig headed was, pride, and hubris mens that they simply cannot go and admit error; and the third is simple complete stupidity. Plus the last, malice, they know it can work and do not desire a simple and effective way to reduce the threat as Covid is simply too useful as a means to introduce controls on people.
  
  How cynical, or how much of a read list do you need to be to accept the last option, malice, as the most likely.
  
  Last though, for all those who say that Ivermectin doesn’t work, why not carry out a proper trial, even a small scale one. Because if it does work as it appears to, then so much of our present troubles just go away. Do you not want that, what is the investment in Covid as the curse of humanity that possible cures must be scorned in order to keep it around ?
  
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  November 25, 2021 10:18am
- Ra Henare
  
  Interesting to read that a Japanese Professor is releasing a medical paper about Japanese Delta variant mutating to nothing.
  sorry cant lay my hands on the link
  
  Ivermectin seems to have generated a split(another one ) in the population in the for and against category. All generated by your favorite PMs government
  
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  November 25, 2021 11:37am
  - Master Mariner
    
    https://www.the-sun.com/health/4117893/delta-variant-mutated-itself-into-extinction-japan/
    amongst other publications.
    Gonesky
    
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    November 25, 2021 12:45pm
- Reid
  
  [deleted. Unsubstantiated claims around covid treatments – Mod]
  
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  November 25, 2021 12:23pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  And you don’t get worms either!
  
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  November 25, 2021 6:59pm
JibberJabber

A Classic from the Twitter…

Collins publicly scolds Bridges over comments he made 5 years ago sparking rumors they are married.

? ? ?
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November 25, 2021 9:27am
Colville

So who will be the new MP for Papakura?
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November 25, 2021 9:28am
Yvette

Collins
The MP who laid the complaint against Simon Bridges is understood to be Jacqui Dean. It is understood to relate to crude comments Bridges allegedly made at a function about five years ago.
Bridges is understood to have been talking with a group of about three fellow MPs, including Jami-Lee Ross and Todd McClay, when Dean walked past and the Tauranga MP called to her and made the comment. [1]

So Judith Collins would have us believe –

1 – Trevor Mallard’s independent report, by external reviewer Debbie Francis, examining harassment and bullying in Parliamentary workplace, released 28 May 2019 [2], did not turn up Simon Bridges alleged misdemeanour

2 – that National trashed Labour over the Summer Camp drinking/sexual assault issue and the sexual assault allegations made by a volunteer against a senior staffer [3], but sat on Simon Bridges alleged misdemeanour.

3 – that in a Newsroom opinion item: “Mike Williams: Must be time for a post Jami-Lee Ross National Party clean-out”, Williams writes, “The fact Jami-Lee Ross was well and truly off the rails was brought to the attention of National Party president Peter Goodfellow 18 months before last week’s explosion” [4], while in fact Police at one stage did locate Ross on the rails, in his car waiting for the train to come, so mentally unstable was he, but the slanging (although Ross had been present at the Simon Bridges incident, see above) did not turn up Simon Bridges alleged misdemeanour

4 – and (while “Simon Bridges’ supporters accuse Judith Collins of set-up, possible caucus challenge underway”). Judith Collins, as the Opposition watches Labour ram massive human rights legislation through Parliament under urgency [5] would detract attention and her Party’s energy, and duty to protect the nation from Labour’s rushed actions, with her revealing instead this five year old Simon Bridges alleged misdemeanour, and expect us to maintain confidence in her judgements and priorities?

While Tova O’Brien is in political ecstasy and Labour rams anti-Civil Rights law through, Rome burns.
__________
[1] https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/simon-bridges-demoted-by-national-party-leader-judith-collins-following-serious-misconduct-allegation-involving-historic-interaction-with-mp-jacqui-dean/7VUZABYUOAUCCJZGNP2PPAAKRY/
[2] https://nzfvc.org.nz/news/independent-report-examines-harassment-and-bullying-parliamentary-workplace
[3] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/09/pm-jacinda-ardern-deeply-disappointed-in-labour-s-handling-of-allegations.html
[4] https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/opinion-mike-williams-must-be-time-for-a-post-jami-lee-ross-national-party-clean-out/GXH3Q52FI7QTYAH5SKUWM3IL4I/?c_id=280&objectid=12149169
[5] https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127082246/speaker-trevor-mallard-lashes-government-for-urgently-passing-covid19-law?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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November 25, 2021 9:31am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Labour need diversion–Tongariro Raceway?
  
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  November 25, 2021 11:21am
Master Mariner

Another unprofitable wind farm,

https://www.upstreamonline.com/exclusive/worlds-largest-offshore-wind-farm-unprofitable-for-equinor-say-government-funded-researchers/2-1-1098012
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November 25, 2021 9:45am
- cmm
  
  The combined output of the top ten wind farms in the world is less than that of one coal power station.
  
  The combined output of the top ten solar farms in the world is even less than that.
  
  They are not serious sources of energy.
  
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  November 25, 2021 3:38pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Without Govt subsidies, you wouldn’t countenance the thought of the effin things. Likewise, Solar Panels.
    
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    November 25, 2021 3:41pm
    - cmm
      
      Yup, unfortunately propping them up with taxpayer handouts, and lots of Powerpoints and giving them Maori names, still doesn’t make any more gigawatts come out of them.
      
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      November 25, 2021 5:36pm
I remember when

With so much noise in the news/media space, at the moment, it is hard to know if a National leadership decision would be detrimental.
The effects of any change with disappear under the deluge of covid stories, both good and bad.
Christmas, Wedding, Vaccine Passports, MIQ at home, Inflation – maybe now is the time.
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November 25, 2021 9:51am
Yvette

Perhaps 4.2 million invalid Vaccination Passes?
New COVID-19 Protection Framework delivers greater freedoms for vaccinated New Zealander – Prime Minister, Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern

Vaccinated New Zealanders will regain everyday freedoms when the country moves to a new simplified COVID-19 Protection Framework that doesn’t rely on nationwide lockdowns as the main measure to stop the virus spreading.
“Fully vaccinated people will be able to reconnect with family and friends, go to bars and restaurants and do the things they love with greater certainty and confidence. The framework also provides businesses greater certainty to plan and grow,” Jacinda Ardern said.
“If you are still unvaccinated, not only will you be more at risk of catching COVID-19, but many of the freedoms others enjoy will be out of reach. No-one wants that to happen but we need to minimise the threat of the virus, which is now mainly spreading amongst unvaccinated people.
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/new-covid-19-protection-framework-delivers-greater-freedoms-vaccinated-new-zealanders

This all depends on “full vaccination”

Vast international media reports indicate the Pfizer vaccination wains in efficacy after 5 to 6 months.

The current Internet-available download of Vaccination Passes, delivers a Pass with an expiry date that is six months after the moment the Pass is downloaded, and nothing to do with the date that the person concerned had their 2nd vaccine injection (+ 2 weeks to achieve full potency).

This failure to relate the expiry date to anything other than an arbitary moment of online download, ignores the potency of the vaccination the individual has, so those first vaccinated, being in February, would today have been fully vaccinated for 214 days or 7 months, so their Passes should show their vaccination as decreased in efficacy to be 1 month overdue for a booster, by many international standards, and their Pay should show no Expiry Date because it has already Expired.

This surely completely invalidates a potential 4.2 million Vaccination Passes, and endangers the whole nation, especially as overseas experience indicates a certain over-confidence of vaccinated people and disregard then of simple mask-wearing (in particular) and other physical safe guards in general.

Someone could perhaps make sure David Seymour understands this to challenge Ardern – as Collins seems to have otherwise distracted herself.

(last day of February for1st injection would allow full vaccination on Sunday, 25 April 2021)
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November 25, 2021 10:02am
- Yvette
  
  Collins – Further …
  
  • Collins says she only heard about the incident for the first time and last night received the unanimous backing of the National board to demote Bridges [1]
  From whom did Collins hear this “new” astonishing revelations she was unaware of for five years.
  Did the National Board not tell her?
  
  • On Wednesday evening, National Party leader Judith Collins issued a statement which says the decision was made with unanimous support of the board of the National Party. [2]
  So did the National Board itself not know.
  So should they, for their ignorance, now stand down along with Collins?
  Did the Board call Bridges before them for his explanation?
  
  • After speaking to then deputy leader Bill English, Bridges apologised at the time for the comments – apparently related to a sex technique to conceive a girl [1]
  So the issue was “done and dusted” several years ago.
  A little like Winston’s super problem before it ever was made public.
  
  [1] https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/simon-bridges-demoted-by-national-party-leader-judith-collins-following-serious-misconduct-allegation-involving-historic-interaction-with-mp-jacqui-dean/7VUZABYUOAUCCJZGNP2PPAAKRY/
  [2] https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/11/24/simon-bridges-loses-portfolios-after-serious-misconduct-claim/
  
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  November 25, 2021 10:46am
- Albert_Ross
  
  To be clear. Are you advocating that people who had their second vaccine in (say) mid-August, should get a vaccine pass that is valid only until mid-February? If not, what?
  
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  November 25, 2021 11:06am
  - Yvette
    
    Albert_Ross – Are you advocating that people who had their second vaccine in (say) mid-August, should get a vaccine pass that is valid only until mid-February?
    
    I am not myself advocating that, but saying if there is any point in the Government putting an Expiry Date on the Pass, Yes, that is what the Expiry Date should be: mid-February, when your vaccination will not be as effective, as the Government itself acknowledges. The date you download a Pass from the Internet is irrelevant.
    After mid-February your example should have a booster and then download a new Vaccine Pass, or they should only get to look in the bar window.
    
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    November 25, 2021 1:04pm
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Your logic is unchallengeable, and that approach would also avoid the mad scramble to renew that is bound to happen in May/June next year, so I’m puzzled as to why you’re not advocating that.
      
      They might make it seven or eight months from second jab though, to give a bit of time to those whose passes would already be expired under a six-month-from-second-jab approach but who can’t yet book for a booster (I’m actually one such). I doubt there’s that much difference between vaccine efficacy after six months and efficacy after seven.
      
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      November 25, 2021 2:12pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Prove that the vaccinated will be better off.
  World reports are now strongly questioning that.
  Surely a govt has a duty to exercise care and follow the law.
  
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  November 25, 2021 11:25am
  - Yvette
    
    KevO’Brien, regardless of whether the vaccine is effective or not, the Government has decided it is.
    But, accepting what the Government itself believes – because it is in fact happening, and their indication of up-coming vaccination of under 12s, talking of boosters, and even giving the Pass an expiry date at all, confirms that – the point I am trying to make is that that Expiry Date emanating from when the Pass is downloaded from the Internet is bizarre, when it is the date of the 2nd vaccine injection (+ 2 weeks) which determines its later proposed effectiveness and how long that effectiveness lasts, or expires
    
    The other fault with the Pass system at the moment is that apparently shops can not advertise ALL OUR STAFF ARE VACCINATED, because it invades staff privacy.
    However, like the rules governing foreign military vessels visiting New Zealand ports being not allowed to be nuclear powered or armed, but are permitted entry, since accepting New Zealand law they are presumed to comply, although they declare they NEITHER CONFIRM OR DENY nuclear presence. Same with watching anyone enter any venue requiring Vaccine Passes, where owners permitting you to enter, implies you are vaccinated. So anyone can be observed, by implication to be vaccinated, so why stop owners from advertising all their staff are? – a minor nuclear moment that Jacinda has missed.
    
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    November 25, 2021 12:54pm
Bridgenag

SENT TO ME

Just keeping you up to date where your money is. going that you have NO say on

“$1.3b for ‘Maori’ in Budget

The proposal to spend $1.3 billion in the next financial year on “Maori” cannot go without comment. Proposed spending includes:

• $427.8 million supposedly for “Crown-Maori” relations, but actually for Treaty settlements.
• $380 million to deliver 1000 new homes for Maori including housing on Maori land, repairs to about 700 Maori-owned homes, and expanding support services.
• $242.8 million for Maori health initiatives including the new Maori Health Authority.
• $150 million for Maori education including $20 million to support Maori boarding schools.
• $42 million for Maori media.
• $23.4 million for the well-being of Maori children and families.
• $15 million for Maori tourism.
• $14.1 million for tribal data collection.
• $14.8 million for a Maori language strategy so that one million New Zealanders will be able to speak basic Maori by 2040. See See Budget 21
A total $1.4 billion has been set aside over four years to spend on Treaty settlements (which is on top of the $4 billion already paid). See Treaty settlements”
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November 25, 2021 10:05am
- KevO'Brien
  
  No more money for Maori until Mahuta resigns.
  
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  November 25, 2021 11:26am
  - Paulus
    
    “More” money when Mahuta takes over Ardern’s job.
    She has the numbers already and has ben preparing over four years.
    
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    November 25, 2021 1:23pm
- Inandout
  
  Bridge, all this big spending happening while the country heads toward bankruptcy.
  
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  November 25, 2021 12:02pm
  - Paulus
    
    Easy for Roberson to tell the RBNZ to print more money and leave for somebody else to try and pay back.
    
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    November 25, 2021 1:23pm
- Yabster
  
  since everything is race based- has anyone done a tax breakdown by race ie for PAYE etc ? Just wondering if as some Maori would like, everyone else left the country how much money would the Government receive via taxes…. fairly sure the land of the long lost cloud would go bankrupt pretty quick….
  
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  November 25, 2021 12:43pm
- Master Mariner
  
  You forgot the Mother of all treaty settlements.
  3 Waters in disguise.
  1.3 billion piftt.
  Hows 160 billion in assets in disguise.?
  Like Stalin quoted, You can pluck a chicken and it will always come back for a feed.
  Well words to that effect.
  
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  November 25, 2021 4:29pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING TWITTER….

When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie,
that’s Amore.

When an eel bites your thigh and you bleed out and die,
that’s a Moray.

When you see a big boat tied up with a rope,
that’s a Mooring.

When you’re smashed with a jug in a South Auckland pub,
that’s a Maori.

(Not sorry 😀 )
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November 25, 2021 10:11am
- JibberJabber
  
  Ohhh, you ARE naughty….
  
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  November 25, 2021 10:42am
  - Scooter
    
    But I like u
    
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    November 26, 2021 1:05am
- Nickc2
  
  The old Flying Jug Pub song eh? It never was popular in Otahuhu in earlier times. A lot of Slips Cricketers used to practice their skills whenever that song was sung.
  
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  November 25, 2021 12:23pm
oldfella

As if to prove Labour is making it up as they go along…
Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins has today revealed New Zealand would revert to the alert level system if a new vaccine-resistant variant overwhelmed the country and the traffic light framework couldn’t contain it.
Speaking to The AM Show, Hipkins said while the Government was absolutely committed to the traffic light system, a back-up plan would be reinstating the alert level system which is set to be dismantled next week.
The Government would have to revert to the alert level plan if it had a variant of the virus that was resistant to the vaccine, he said.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-govts-long-awaited-miq-end-dates-as-much-about-groaning-admin-system-as-health-risk-says-expert/S4N2VVDTVTFHEKGHDNRZ4OAYY4/
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November 25, 2021 10:48am
- westernScientest
  
  [deleted. Not acceptable – Mod]
  
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  November 25, 2021 1:08pm
- I remember when
  
  oldfella:
  Traffic Light System:
  Red: Absolutely committed! (Statement)
  Amber: Absolutely committed (Yeah.Nah)
  Green: Absolutely committed? (Question)
  
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  November 25, 2021 2:28pm
I remember when

Transmission Gully: Kapiti Observer:
Contractor Wgtn Gateway Pship said 28% of safety and assurance tests completed, and 15% of consent tasks are complete.
The are a total of 100 tests: 28 completed, 10 submitted but not accepted and 95 partially submitted to project’s Independent Reviewer.
There are also 45 resource consents GWRC and other authorities have to sign off, 7 complete and 36 underway.
Since October 29 update, just 3 new safety tests and 4 new resource consents have been added to the tally of completed work.
(Will New Zealand citizens with MIQ free travel from Australia be able to use it as they travel home.)
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November 25, 2021 11:18am
- Inandout
  
  Irw, other countries must laugh at how slow we build roads; it really is a scandal.
  
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  November 25, 2021 12:43pm
sooty

Anyone but Uncle Festus!
That’s my pick for Notional leader!
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November 25, 2021 12:16pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Rolled!
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November 25, 2021 12:20pm
Ehlana

In other news, I just a call from Sky TV. Remember them?
Does anyone still have Sky TV?
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November 25, 2021 12:26pm
- graham
  
  Yep. We still have it because my wife likes the simplicity and all-in-one package.
  
  Plus, if we went to streaming we would have to subscribe to several different platforms in order to get all the different programs we enjoy.
  
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  November 25, 2021 12:39pm
Maggie Pie

Barry on ZB still making out he doesn’t know it’s Chris Luxton.

LOL!!!
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November 25, 2021 12:29pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o3QLL8XBeg
This time Russian invasion bid in #Ukraine could backfire because of Javelin !

The Biden administration is contemplating sending military advisers and equipment including weapons to Ukraine as Russia builds up forces near the border. US officials are also working with allies regarding another possible Russian invasion. [8:42]
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November 25, 2021 1:01pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StpqtYuCZp0
The Dinner Guest

Thanksgiving isn’t always a happy family occasion.
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November 25, 2021 1:01pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Il8BAApqI8

Zarah Sultana MP To Be De-selected By Starmer Supporters.

Not a good day for the Communist part of the Labour party. She might have to get a real job
If she is de-selected. Several others may go too. They’re too dodgy even for Labour. [4:2]
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November 25, 2021 1:02pm
Libertarians are right

There was another US self defense case that finished today and this time the Left won and the 3 defendants were found guilty of multiple murder charges.

It’s a weird one because it involved Georgia’s Citizens Arrest law.

Arbery (the “Victim”) had on multiple occasions been caught on video stealing from a house that was under construction. The police had done nothing.

A father and son spotted him in the house and jumped in their truck and chased him to “arrest” him. A third guy also gave chase (while videoing everything). The father and son got in front of him and puled over with the son jumping out of his truck with his shotgun (pointed to the ground). Arbery goes to run around the truck but suddenly turns left and lunges at the son and tries to take his gun and gets shot in the struggle (at any time Arbery could have gone off road to escape them). The other two defendants were still in their vehicles.

The jury found them guilty of various types of murder (mainly felony murder – i.e. death happened while they were committing a crime).

The decision entirely hinged on the assumption that the “citizens arrest” requirements weren’t met. The truly remarkable thing here however was that the judge didn’t give jury instructions on how to interpret the Citizens Arrest law. He left the interpretation of the law up to the jury which obviously is not their job.

It will be interesting to see what happens on appeal as a judge abdicating his role of interpreting the law and leaving it to the jury is pretty unusual from what I can tell.

Of course, had he instructed the jury on the law, they may have been forced to declare the defendants innocent which may be why he chose not to.
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November 25, 2021 1:09pm
krazykiwi

From a CDC study just published:-

Results: A total of 978 specimens were provided by 95 participants, of whom 78 (82%) were fully vaccinated and 17 (18%) were not fully vaccinated. No significant differences were detected in duration of RT-PCR positivity among fully vaccinated participants (median: 13 days) versus those not fully vaccinated (median: 13 days; p=0.50), or in duration of culture positivity (medians: 5 days and 5 days; p=0.29).

Conclusions: As this field continues to develop, clinicians and public health practitioners should consider vaccinated persons who become infected with SARS-CoV-2 to be no less infectious than unvaccinated persons.

Still more evidence that crushing civil liberties by stigmatising The Unvaccinated™ is both medically and morally corrupt.
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November 25, 2021 1:19pm
Maggie Pie

Idiot talkback-caller to 1ZB says…

“He would like to see someone ‘humble’ as National leader”

Honestly, no wonder this place is f****d.
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November 25, 2021 1:39pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Even worse…those 2 wokesters that host the show
  agreed with him!!
  
  SHEESH
  
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  November 25, 2021 1:53pm
  - Jim
    
    Ha the woke dopeys
    
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    November 26, 2021 7:14pm
Yvette

In the 1960s in the United States Landrum B. Shettles developed the Shettles method, which is a procedure for couples to use prior to and during intercourse to increase their chances of conceiving a fetus of their desired sex.

However Simon Bridges could have better Googled his interests rather than consulting MP Jacqui Dean in regard to information he may have sought. And discussing it with Jami-Lee Ross may also not have displayed sound judgement.

The theories of Landrum B. Shettles were fairly discredited by 2020.
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November 25, 2021 1:44pm
Nickc2

Exactly, we need someone with some mongrel!
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November 25, 2021 1:46pm
Fletch

Re: the traffic light mandate –

The only thing we can do to protest is just to not go out, like they did in Moscow. Vaxxed and unvaxxed alike. Just not patronize businesses that require the certificate. All of us kiwis have to stick together. It’s the only way to stick it to this lawless govt.

ps, it is also the job of the governor general to dissolve this govt if people have to confidence in it.
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November 25, 2021 2:01pm
- Fletch
  
  Have no* confidence…
  
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  November 25, 2021 2:06pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    That is not the job of the governor-general. The governor-general could have a role if the government of the day could not demonstrate it had the confidence of the house of representatives. The ‘people’ get to vote for representatives every three years.
    
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    November 25, 2021 2:58pm
- mawm
  
  There are just too many people who –
  a) are just so happy to be able to socialise again
  b) have been brainwashed about the disease and its lethality
  c) believe only the unwashed can infect them
  – for this to happen. It is heartening that so many commenters on this blog have come out against the governments policies regarding segregation of the unvaxxed from the vaxxed.
  
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  November 25, 2021 3:48pm
Fletch

A whistle blower produces video evidence of voting records and tapes being destroyed in Delaware so they can’t be used by investigators. Tell me again how the election last year was all above board….

https://tennesseestar.com/2021/11/18/its-a-felony-a-new-lawsuit-with-video-evidence-alleges-delaware-county-pennsylvania-election-officials-destroyed-voting-records/
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November 25, 2021 2:15pm
- Batman
  
  Between the ads for Steve Bannon, anti “big tech”, something called Tea Party Patriots Action, ‘Middle Class Warriors’, and multiple stories pushing far right theories, one does begin to wonder how robust that reporting and lawsuit is ?
  
  Hopium, copium, and la la land all rolled into one.
  
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  November 25, 2021 2:24pm
ABS4EVA

NOVAVAX

About to be approved in the UK

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/24/novavax-expected-to-be-approved-as-fourth-covid-vaccine-in-uk

What do we have in NZ and AUS

NON STOP BS

Safer and More Effective

Now we can’t have that in NZ and AUS
can we

Why is that?
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November 25, 2021 2:22pm
- mawm
  
  COVAX-19 sounds promising. Developed by Professor Nikolai Petrovsky of Flinders University. This is an informative interview with him and of his knowledge of vaccines and the covid disease.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x2ieHuj8zU&t=3207s
  
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  November 25, 2021 3:54pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Depending on who you believe, the SARS-CoV-2 virus has 28 or 29 proteins. The success of any vaccine will be down to how broadly the adaptive immune system is enhanced by memory T and B cells for all of these. We know the mRNA ‘vaccines’ prime the body to deal with just one – the glycoprotein spike. So for me, COVAX-19 looks like a much stronger proposition.
    
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    November 25, 2021 5:33pm
  - ABS4EVA
    
    That interview is INCREDIBLE and really
    lays on the Table what a Complete CROCK
    the Mandate is when SAFER BETTER – Tested
    Vaccines are there to be implemented?
    
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    November 25, 2021 6:50pm
JibberJabber

Have we reached peak Covid insanity yet?
Heh, heh not by a long shot, in Deutschland, only the vaccinated can be Euthanised.

https://www.rt.com/news/541149-euthanasia-germany-vaccinated-only/

Anyone wishing to be euthanized now has to first present proof of vaccination or recovery from Covid

No early shower for YOU!
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November 25, 2021 2:48pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Utter madness.
  
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  November 25, 2021 5:56pm
- Inandout
  
  JJ, calm down now. You realise that German hookers take all comers. Sometimes an elderly punter drops dead on the bed and their vaccination status is irrelevant.
  
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  November 25, 2021 6:34pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Now that’s the kind of euthanasia I’d be signing up for!
    
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    November 25, 2021 7:07pm
- ABS4EVA
  
  Labour Victoria Australia’s response to COVID
  is like a State Euthanasia Program Anyway
  
  Upwards of 90% of Aus Covid deaths
  and they are just getting started
  
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  November 25, 2021 7:12pm
Maggie Pie

One of the girls from tennis was just telling me she’s heard Chris Luxton….. OPPOSES capital punishment, euthanasia and abortion.

Here was us thinking we might get someone to take the country forward.

SHEESH!
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November 25, 2021 3:51pm
- Fletch
  
  I heard that Luxton is “vaccine extreme”. The last thing we need.
  
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  November 25, 2021 4:31pm
  - graham
    
    I heard he’s occasionally known as Chris Luxon … without a ‘t’.
    
    Just saying …
    
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    November 25, 2021 4:56pm
- gorse
  
  That might be. I am more interested in what Chris Luxon’s position is on these matters.
  
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  November 25, 2021 8:22pm
Truman lodge

Dam you National.. This almost looks like controlled opposition. The next week is crucial with the traffic light system and how its going to be rolled out and you do this??

The nats have given Vaxinda and labour the green light. Now is the time to ram through anything you want Jacinda, as the media are preoccupied with nationals spill next week. The timing is atrocious.
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November 25, 2021 4:13pm
campit

In other news:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-school-management-board-slammed-by-auditor-general-after-paying-450k-of-public-money-to-themselves/H2BU2Z6THILVTXLGECEN62WZE4/

The Auditor-General has slammed the members of a school board who paid $450,000 to themselves – and have been unable to say what it was spent on, who authorised it or how the fee was determined.

An inquiry was launched after it was discovered that the Combined Establishment Board of South Auckland Middle School and Middle School West Auckland paid the management fees to the Villa Education Trust in 2018.

However, the school’s appointed auditor noted that the trustees of the board were also the trustees of the Trust and “effectively decided to pay money to themselves”, Auditor-General John Ryan said.
…

Alwyn Poole founded South Auckland Middle School and Middle School West Auckland and organised all students at both schools in “villas” of 60 children, each with a class of about 15 students in each of the year levels 7 to 10.
…

– There was no formal agreement between the board and the Trust, and no scope of work before the $450,000 was invoiced and approved for payment,

– There was no evidence to show how the board determined what services it was paying for, assessed the appropriateness of the fees, or actively managed the services that were delivered,

– There is no documentary record of who approved the expenditure as being valid or authorised the invoices for payment, and whether they had the appropriate authority to do so.
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November 25, 2021 5:18pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

So, MagicTalk is no more. Renamed ‘Today FM’.
Pogram Head Dallas Gurnard (who calls New Zealand ‘Aotearoa’) has annonced the Stations new line-up…

Rachael will be up against Katie H.
Tova will be up against Mike H.
Duncan will be up against Kerri W.
Lloyd will be up against HDPA.
Polly will be up against UMM Anyway.

No mention of cringy wokester Danny Watson.
Assume he’s still up against those other two dicks on the noon – 4, so they cancel each other out anyway.

– Stuffed
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November 25, 2021 5:43pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, Hosking had Jeremy Clarkson on this morning and this indicates how much influence Mike has. Jeremy has standards. I really can’t imagine Tova being controversial while remaining Jacinda’s bestie and I would think the taxpayer funding of the media would be foremost on O’Brien’s mind.
  
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  November 25, 2021 6:29pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Who gives a rats arse. They’re both as boring as sh*t radio stations.
  
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  November 25, 2021 7:09pm
Fletch

Hmmm…

Scientists have discovered a new variant of coronavirus with “extremely long branches” and “high amount of spike mutations” that may not be stopped by existing vaccines.

https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/new-coronavirus-mutation-detected-in-botswana-south-africa-and-hong-kong-raises-concerns-for-experts/news-story/52f13ea6d0ce2a42e3342ef2a6980226

Kind of makes the whole vaccination and mandate programs moot. And also, would another vaccine that targetted this new strain work anyway? Because of Original Antigenic Sin?
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November 25, 2021 6:37pm
Scooter

Italy now following in the footsteps of Austria and have new rules for a so called Super Green Pass from 6 Dec till 15 Jan (sounds similar to Jacinda’s dates). Now vacc proof to travel on regional trains and buses whereas only high speed before. What’s the bet this continues, little by little people’s freedoms taken away.
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November 25, 2021 9:28pm
Surely Knott

In NZ criminals are not named in the newspaper. Maybe the news will come back and do a follow up story after the trial with the offenders names, but in most cases they do not.
Todays story “Two people arrested after second serious assault in West Auckland suburb in two days” These people are anonymous as is the usual case with criminals. They don’t name if they are associated with a gang either.

But a “Doctor who posted controversial Covid videos loses fight to stop investigation” article names the doctor and includes a photograph even though the industry investigation hasn’t happened yet. But yet despite their being no due process her videos are labelled “controversial”. The 15 complainants to the video are not named but the doctor is.

This no doubt will affect her medical reputation but the reputation of the violent offenders remains protected.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/two-people-arrested-after-second-serious-assault-in-west-auckland-suburb-in-two-days
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November 26, 2021 10:44am
Jim

One is an enemy of the State, the other is protected class citizen
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November 26, 2021 7:21pm

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